All right, good evening, everyone.

I welcome you to the Brattleboro Select Board meeting of Wednesday, November 12th, 2025.

This is a special meeting.

And after our meeting, there will be an executive session.

But in the meantime, I'll convene the meeting and I'll ask our town manager, John Potter, if the meeting has been officially warned.

Yes, it was properly warned.

Thank you very much.

All right.

I have just a little remarks.

How's that?

Better?

No.

I think it's one that one.

How's that?

Great.

Thank you for letting me know.

All right.

So I welcome you all to our listening session.

We're eager to listen to you as you know the budget process is extremely transparent.

And this meeting is an important part of that transparency.

Tonight's meeting is open to all.

All are invited to speak at three minute intervals.

And the select board rules of conduct will guide our discussion.

And I just want to say that I know some people feel quite strongly about aspects of the budget.

And some may not be used to public speaking, but there is one rule in our code of conduct that I want you all to keep in mind, and that is no personal attacks.

And with that, I want to thank everyone for coming and giving up their time, but especially Amanda Thurber, because today is her birthday.

So happy birthday, Amanda.

Okay, John.

Yeah, I um guess I get two mics here.

That's right.

Um so I just wanted to address some comments at the last meeting about staff salary lines in the budget.

And um I just wanted to say that I could see where someone who is unfamiliar with municipal finance could get off track with what uh they were seeing in um past budgets uh uh actuals.

And you know, the bottom line is that nobody received payments that they shouldn't have in the town.

The uh some benefits in FY25 were accounted for in salary object codes like travel reimbursements, clothing allowances, uh vacation payments, longevity bonuses, stipends, and health insurance opt-out payments when someone doesn't do the town, the town's health care policy, it actually saves the town money if they take an opt-out payment.

And so those things got recorded in some of the salary lines in FY24 as opposed to in benefit lines.

Um it's just a way that new finance people are looking at how we account for things a little differently.

Uh it's being uh revamped completely in the proposed FY27 budget to get everything on a department by department basis, which should be you should be able to see even more clearly where um where kind of centralized benefits were hitting in the departments.

So I just wanted to reassure everyone that there are many checks and balances in the system to prevent anyone from being overpaid, and we have very diligent staff who are on that every day and um take that responsibility very seriously.

And so uh I just wanted to mention that and make sure everyone had uh good clear information on uh that issue.

So that's all I had.

Um before I ask our my colleagues just say some opening remarks, just want to make sure that we all understand the process.

There'll be there's a sign-up sheet, right?

And um there's three questions you can sign sign up for each question if you like, or just a one question, and we'll try and keep it all straight and orderly.

So in the back at that table that says sign up sheets?

Something like that.

Yeah.

All right, so um that's that, and I'll I'll turn the microphone to my colleagues.

Thank you.

Um what should just a procedural question?

What should someone do if they have a question or a comment that's not those three questions, just put themselves down somewhere and pick anyone.

Okay.

I have one sort of unrelated announcement.

It's kind of a fun one.

I think we all know about the miniature festival that's going on this year, which uh we're all excited about and I think is gonna be really exciting.

I have been working with the library and with Star, and we are doing something that uh to go along with that.

We are doing a miniature fiction competition, the first annual Brattleboro miniature masterpiece flash fiction competition named by Star.

Um we're going to be officially announcing it on Monday the 17th with details of how to apply and what the dates are.

But the basics are we'll have three categories for kids, teens, and adults.

The overall challenge is to write a piece of fiction, 50 words or less, which is very short, but I think will be really exciting.

And um there will be prizes for all three categories, and there will be more to know on Monday.

So thank you.

Let me move on.

I I forgot to mention to thank the library and to thank our librarian, Star Electronica.

And star, is there anything you'd like else to announce besides thanks for coming everyone?

Yes, thanks for coming.

Okay.

Amanda.

Good evening, everyone.

I want to thank you all for showing up on this dark November night to talk about your hopes and dreams for our budget and for our town.

And uh I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

Oh, they're so clever.

Good evening, everyone.

Thanks for being here.

Um you'll see me taking some notes this evening.

That's partly because I'm the clerk of the select board, but also because I'm really interested in what you all have to say, and I'll be looking over my notes afterwards and thinking back on what you've contributed tonight.

We're looking at a proposed a draft proposed budget from the town manager of 27 million dollars.

So this represents significant commitment from the town, and your input is critical.

Um I really appreciate the input that's been incorporated from the representative town meeting finance committee into this budgetary budgetary process, and look forward to all of your input, all of you who who care to speak this evening.

Um and in the spirit of Oscar having made an announcement about an upcoming event, I want to share that on Sunday there's a one-night celebration of democracy through visual art performance and storytelling that addresses the question what does democracy look like?

That's gonna be at the Latchis Theater at 4 p.m.

Thanks.

I will keep this short and sweet.

Um, you know, this is really how it happens, how we form the budget, hearing from you and what you think.

So we are looking forward to uh getting your input and uh again writing it down and and forming that into our you know our final plan.

So thank you all for coming out.

I do truly appreciate it.

Okay.

So um public participation, I guess.

That's for items not on your agenda.

This is for items not on the agenda.

So if you want to say something about town business that is not budget related, uh please raise your hand.

Mr.

DeGray.

Point of order.

Point of order, yes.

Pardon me?

So we have a budget, right?

How much of the budget is this up here make out of the please wait your turn?

Uh yes, Dick DeGray Brattleboro.

I want to thank John for his explanation for a question uh I asked last week that got a little bit out of hand.

Um I certainly meant I I did not accuse anyone of malfeces.

I said that there was a better logical way to explain it.

You did hear this evening.

I'd like to apologize if any employee was offended by a question I asked about the pay line and repaying that.

I'd also like to apologize to the chair and Peter Case for remarks I made.

I certainly have sat in those seats for a long long time.

I thought that uh certainly I know better to uh not lose my composure.

Sometimes that's difficult, but I apologize to you and uh thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right.

There was a comment.

I guess it was budget related.

Yes.

Do you have a comment?

Fritz.

Uh Frick Sprite uh District 9 rep.

Um my understanding is that as the current procedure is going with the charter review, the charter is just gonna go for a up or down vote before the uh the legal voters.

Is that correct?

There are a number of ballot questions uh raised by petitions, and they will be on the ballot in my own.

I'm talking about the charter review committee's work.

I don't quite I think the other question the question oh can't hurt her, yeah.

So uh the charter commission questions, I understand and we can ask Kate have been delayed until after the ballot questions.

Kate, is that correct?

That is correct.

That is correct.

That wasn't my question.

Okay.

My question was as it stands now, is that slated to go for an up or down vote before the legal voters?

Or not at this time.

Kate, do you want to explain?

Okay, well, the context of this.

I was involved in the last round, and it came before the RTM, and we went through the thing thoroughly.

And deliberated on different parts of it, as we do with the budget, as opposed to the idea of going for an up or down vote on the budget.

Um, using a sledgehammer on a scalpel is appropriate.

Um so I I am gonna be encouraging you and anybody else who has the power to do this to get it before the RTM so that we can go through it in a thorough fashion by elected citizens, as opposed to an appointed committee.

Shall I answer that?

I don't think there's anything.

Yeah, that there's nothing uh we'll be hearing about that.

Yes, miss.

Do I go here?

Yes, you do.

Also, not miss, thank you so much.

My pronouns are they them, but I'm generally confused about I tried to go up and sign up for the thing I want to talk about, and I'm like pretty literate and schooled in words, but I genuinely do not understand those things.

So I'm here to talk about the aspects of the budget that are kept away from the people in this town and how they're given elsewhere, and I genuinely do not know how to why what is the word attrition or something on the I don't know.

So which if I want to talk about the if I want to talk about the allocation of services to the humans who live in this town versus to other places, which three things do I sign up for?

Number three in the other or whatever.

Or is it the second change in the FY27 budget?

That's a perfect spot for that question.

Okay, but you understand how that's not like an accessible language for people, even me.

We do our best.

Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you.

So I saw if I want to talk about the allocation to human services versus whatever in this town, I sign up for category number three.

Yes, thank you.

Randy.

Hi, Randy Blodge at District 7 RTM Rep.

I just want to do a point of clarification so that everybody here and anybody that watches this later on what Fritz had mentioned.

My understanding in going to the charter reforms, talking to Kate, talking to going to the meetings is that their first would be at least one or two educational meetings when they're even going to consider the vote.

So we would have to have all that before we even consider RTM or anything else, or go into a public vote before that would even be considered, and it's not on the ballot based on Kate's testimony at select board.

It was attrition, also.

You can put me on contempt or whatever report that's like no.

Is there anyone else who has a comment that they'd like to make that is not on tonight's agenda?

All right, then let's begin.

Can I have that list?

As always, I think Seth Thomas always does such a nice job.

All right.

Question number one is considering health care and other significant cost increases, what do you think is a reasonable range for tax rate increase?

And the first person is our former colleague, Richard Davis.

Richard?

Yeah, can you speak into the microphone?

We can't Richard Vayris.

So can I throw in other questions about health care at this point?

It's not really a question of health care.

It's more of a question of because we all anticipate health care costs and other costs are rising.

How do you think that that will affect the tax rate and the townspeople's ability to pay their taxes?

Well, yeah, so I have questions that relate to that.

Great.

Okay.

So but the first question uh um directly did the town contract with a new health insurance carrier.

Uh yeah, I think we are proposing.

Can you speak into the mic?

So you're looking for more information on health care providers for the town, is that what I'm hearing?

No, no.

Um who you're who the town is buying their health insurance from the town currently has a policy with Blue Cross Blue Shield of Vermont.

All right, because I I got the impression that was changing, but it's not.

Yeah.

We've we're looking at many options in um this this fiscal year.

Okay.

This calendar year, actually, it will change in uh January potentially.

Okay.

Well, as far as that question goes, there's no reasonable increase because you it's it's so far out of control.

I mean, when health care prices are going up 19 percent, you know, I'd I'd like to see to keep that as low as possible.

I mean, I don't I don't think you can put a number on that, but then my other related questions are um looking through the budget.

Can you speak into the mic a little more?

Yeah.

Am I not speaking into it?

You're fine.

Everybody else can hear you.

You hear me now?

Yeah, yep.

Thank you.

All right.

My question, really just one question.

Um I looked at the budget and and the changes, the decreasing amount of money that the town is paying employees as their contribution as the town's contribution to the health insurance.

So is there uh a fixed amount that that's changing by, or does that depend on is it is a variable for some reason?

Well, it's it's also under negotiation.

So so we don't have a clear answer for you at this time.

Okay.

So but but uh what about like people who aren't subject to contract negotiations?

Is there a figure for them?

Are there people there's a there's an estimate in the proposed budget, and we're right now trying to figure out what that uh actually will end up being.

Okay.

And so just to finish this, and probably don't have an answer, but because there's a lot of money at stake here in terms of uh health insurance payments, whether it's by the town or employees.

If do you have you calculated how much of how how much of a financial hitter would be to the town if you were unable to negotiate what you want to negotiate when the contract negotiations happen?

I mean that's gonna mess up the budget quite a bit.

So do you have a figure for if we get it or if we don't get it?

I thought this was a listening session, but I'll try to answer as many of these questions as I can.

Um the uh the No, we don't have a figure.

We have an obligation to our employees to provide health insurance for them.

Uh, we're trying to do that in the most economical way possible that also covers the their needs as people, so and families.

So uh that that's kind of what what we're negotiating right now to try to um what's the timing of that in relationship to passing the budget?

Oh uh so health insurance is done on a calendar year basis, so we are now right now trying to figure out calendar year 26.

So starting in in January.

That um that will be covered for half a year, obviously, by the current fiscal 26 budget, and then we have to estimate the we've estimated the first six months of fiscal year 27 in the proposed budget, and then we have to take a complete flyer on what it's gonna be for calendar year 27.

Uh, we're not even close to that, but we have to make an estimate, and that's what's in this proposed budget before you that we were hoping to get a reaction from folks on.

Okay, but boils down to a big unknown basically code.

Yes, it's right.

All right.

Thank you.

Let's see.

Uh do you do you know that it is?

Okay.

All right.

Robert Ozer.

So Robert Ozer Brattleboro.

And first, I guess I'll apologize for not understanding the sign-in sheets either.

Uh pretty confusing.

So I think that's because I had I had some notes of questions that I was gonna ask, and I'm trying to figure out which questions go into which you just ask away.

Um well, I'll start with the one that's relative to the numbers.

Uh I did read on the Vermont League of Cities and Towns website uh that uh Blue Cross Blue Shield, uh small group plan premiums will increase by an average of 4.4 percent.

I said that unfortunately to somebody in the audience before the meeting started, and I was advised that no, it's more like 19 percent.

Um so I'm wondering why VLCT has that number out there.

Uh apparently comes from the Green Mountain Care Board.

Um an MVP is at 2.5 percent.

Um my follow-up kind of thought, I probably will hold to myself, but but it was that's one number in the budget, but if you the math as to what the whole budget would be that 4.4 would come down, but now we don't even know if it's 4.4, we don't know what the number is.

Um so the follow-up to that is I had heard, and I'm not I didn't I didn't research this part that the governors in the Northeast were looking at trying to do something different with health insurance.

And if this whole system collapses, is this an opportunity for single payer?

Or maybe the single payer New England.

Um I think I can say that uh the initial the renewal amount for the blue cross blue shield that we got for calendar year 26 was in the neighborhood of 19 percent, if I recall.

We negotiated on that.

We got it down.

I don't remember now what it what that one currently is at, but we were look we are also got proposals from several other providers.

Uh one of which we're now exploring through collective bargaining with unions, and that one was considerably less expensive than the blue cross blue shield.

Uh I would say that we looked into the um self-insurance for the town, if that if that's what you were kind of alluding to, that was going to be even more costly and riskier than the blue cross blue shield.

And it really only takes a few a few people with serious medical issues to make the the self-insurance uh a very difficult thing to manage to budget for and manage for uh like a municipality.

Um and I can't speak uh to like single payer systems or things like that.

I mean, if if there was another uh form of health insurance, then we we would have to adjust the municipal budget to accommodate whatever that ended up being.

Thank you, John.

Kate O'Connor.

Hi everybody, Kate O'Connor, Brattleboro.

I'm gonna be maybe more on topic or off topic.

I have I don't know.

Um I'm gonna say things that everybody has heard before.

For the last two years, I have stood at these meetings and I have said we're in a financial crisis in our town.

I'm saying it again.

I want to put it in context when we go into thinking about this budget.

In FY24, we ran a deficit in FY25 based on the numbers we saw at the end of what a couple months ago, we're running a deficit for FY25.

Our FY26 budget, the tax increase was about 10.8%.

And it was an uh the but it was aspirational.

So we need to be really thoughtful when we're putting this budget together.

I appreciate the transparency that John just talked about with the numbers on the salaries.

And what I hope is that there's some way when the budget is being presented and looked at, that that can be we can understand what all of those numbers are.

I'm also hoping that we can have a complete understanding of I appreciate that the benefits are broken out, but we can't compare those to previous years, the way they're broken out.

So I'm really hoping that there can be something that tracks it from FY, you know, 24, 25, 26, 27.

Um, as we know, personnel is the largest part of our budget.

It makes up about 66% of our present budget.

Um in the middle of FY25, we added, I think it was what seven new employees, if not more just now in FY26, we had a three new employees, and now we're being told we're gonna add six the equivalent of 6.75, I think, new employees.

I think that's something that really needs to be looked at.

Um so my overall concern and question and caution is that we be really, really careful because we cannot have, even though this says it's a 4.4% tax increase, we know that not that will not be so.

Um so let's all be cautious.

Let's all remember we're what our fiscal position is in this town.

We have used the revolving loan fund for things that it should not be used for.

Our unassigned fund balance has been spent down.

So as we go through this process, whatever that end number is, it has to be low, it has to be responsible, and we have to start thinking about the future.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh Eric Karen.

Yes, what a good girl.

Just a moment.

Good girl.

Okay.

Um, thanks.

Can you read the question to me so I stay right on topic?

It was pretty straightforward.

Health care and what percentage would I be willing to give, I think, but go ahead.

Sure.

Considering health care and other significant cost increases, what do you think is a reasonable range for tax rate increase?

So I just want to answer very clearly that um I I agree uh completely with the last speaker that I think we're in a financial crisis, and for that reason, I actually think we should not have an increase.

I think that we are in a very serious situation, and we should be trying to level fund.

Um I was gonna stand up and say even less, but I think we should try to level fund, and I think we should do that through talking very carefully with our department heads who are amazing.

And then I'll have to stop there, I think, because the rest the other two questions that you have up there kind of tie into this.

So my answer is I don't think that there is a reasonable increase.

I think we've already raised our taxes way too high for the our town.

Thank you very much.

Okay.

That was question one.

So let's move to question two, and I'll read it for you.

Should we reduce services through workforce attrition?

And what reductions in services would you be willing to accept in exchange?

And so, Eric.

What a good girl.

This poor dog.

Doesn't know whether I'm coming or going.

Um so yeah, so um thank you for reading that uh for me and for everybody.

Um attrition, um, I absolutely do think we need to um use that as a tool.

It's one I've seen used by many agencies and and and and large organizations when they're in serious situations and and it's a healthier way.

So um attrition is something we need to take advantage of.

My what I'm saying about attrition is when an employee uh leaves for retirement or moves to a different place.

Do we immediately advertise that position or do we try to fill those services in some way?

We need to fill those services in some way, if if if possible, or evaluate that as something that must be filled, because we can't fill it.

What was the second part of that question?

Sorry.

Can't look at it.

Reductions in services, would you be willing to accept in exchange?

Thank you.

Um I think that's a that's a very difficult question when it's put to us because we people love to.

Can people hear me?

Okay, am I talking too much?

Okay, it's hard to tell when you're up here if it's working.

Um that um it's hard to give up a service once you have it.

But at the same time, we are way beyond that point where we can afford the services that we have.

So, for example, um, at the last select board meeting, I heard one or two people stand up and say um that you know it was amazing what the public works department came up with, almost having the cost that the town originally came up with um for uh waste and and recycling and compost.

And it is amazing what they did, and I think it's a good idea.

But it is also perfectly reasonable to suggest that we stop everything.

And like other towns in Vermont, such as Bendington, that we become responsible because the other issue is that that we just have to get back to basic, absolutely essential services, and and that's what we can afford at this point.

So I would give up a lot of services.

I'd I'd hate to give up, but I'll give them up because our budget is in crisis.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Okay.

Pierre.

Pierre Landry.

Uh Pierre Landry District One.

Um thank you for having us listening session.

Um Eric sort of stole my thunder.

Um I agree with him a hundred percent on the attrition um question.

Um, you know, when someone's leaving or retiring, I think we should hold off on filling that position immediately.

Um I also the reason I really came today was to talk about solid waste.

And um I never think it's a great idea to hire additional staff, purchase additional equipment to do a service that's really not necessary.

Um I would totally eliminate compost curbside compost pickup.

People have plenty of other options how to compost.

Um it's not necessary.

And um, you know, like a lot of other towns, like Eric said, a lot of other towns in Vermont are leaving it up to individual households to contract their own trash removal compost and recycling.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Caitlin Babcom.

Okay.

Uh can she pass it to me?

Of course.

Okay.

Um I have no idea what the question is because I don't understand it.

I'm autistic.

I well, I'm it it's okay, Caitlin.

I I I am autistic and dyslexic, and I have a processing disorder, so I don't know.

Why don't you just these are just suggestions?

So you say whatever you want.

Um I have a couple of things, so I'll talk about one thing and then and the next one where I'm on the list.

I'll talk about that.

Um sorry, I'm very emotional today.

Um 69A is um looking for a new space because we are not able to uh renew our lease.

Um so um sorry.

Um so having um in the budget help for smaller community centers, um, places like Skyberry House.

Um I understand that a lot of money goes to bigger organizations like groundworks and turning point and wherever else.

Um the homeless people and the very vulnerable housed people need help.

Um they do need help.

And we found out that um uh all abandoned property, whether it's abandoned or not, it is thrown out.

And it is so hard to replace it at 69A.

We ask constantly for tents, sleeping bags, coats, blankets, everything, because the town of Bratterboro is throwing out people's belongings.

This is everything that they own.

Everything that they have left besides their heart, their soul, and what they have left of their mind.

Their bodies get destroyed out here from drugs, from rape, from beatings, from the cold.

Tonight we can't take that tonight.

We have saved two lives in the last couple of hours.

One person has never asked for help in his entire life, and we got him a hotel room and a ride.

And it is amazing.

And then the last one almost got hit by a car like six times in like five minutes.

Because he can't handle life right now.

A lot of us can't.

And we are trying, we are trying so hard to save people.

And we are not recognized, or we are called a drop-in center, or we are belittled and and where you refuse to call us out as a place where people can food on screen.

It's not because actually, because this was a time that I signed up for, and everything Lisa is talking about is absolutely correct.

And the legal reality of it is that I have since October 2nd been sending these messages out to the town via the actual law.

You cannot legally trespass people from all town property if you do not designate an area where they can sleep.

You can say no.

I'm sorry, Liz, no.

My time is not up because it has been months.

It is legally, this is not an opinion.

Legally, you cannot trespass people from town property if you do not designate a place for them to go.

And you cannot legally throw their belongings away.

I have emails, caught I have emails, calls to Chuck here.

We have been trying to get people's property data.

Excuse me.

I will not excuse you, Liz.

I'm just sorry.

We don't we don't understand the language here.

This is we are saying that in the box.

And I'm gonna ask you to say that is mine.

I'm gonna say what we want to talk about.

I want you to please sit down.

I will sit down.

Your comment is being addressed at our next select board meeting.

I know that, but I want people to then you'll just have to wait.

And y'all all keep saying that, but that's a legal.

You can choose to wait to call you can wait to find a solution.

Please wait.

Okay, but you cannot wait.

If the police do not this is just me.

This is not the meeting.

This is just me as a person.

You can call the rules of order, but if the cops in this town won't follow the law, then why should I follow the law in this meeting?

Cops have to stop trespassing people from public property.

I won't have me get out as soon as I make it clear that legally the police in this town, are you all coming out to carry me out, or what's happening?

Anyway, as soon as I get on the record that the police in this town cannot legally trespass people from sleeping on public property until you designate an area where they can, just tell them to stop doing that.

That's all you have to do.

Is tell this cops to stop.

I'm gonna leave.

And everyone else.

But tell the cops to stop trespassing people.

Then let people sleep outside.

I love no, I'm leaving.

Don't get me wrong.

I just want to get that very fucking loud and clear.

It's not just an opinion, it's illegal.

The cops cannot be trespassing people in the fucking town.

You know why we're not ignoring it?

This is me as an individual.

Don't worry about it.

We want to hear everybody fall.

We want to hear everyone fall.

You made your point.

Did I?

Because I've been trying to do it for years, and people are still getting fucking killed in this town.

So have I made my point?

Thank you very much.

We did hear you.

It's time to move on to the next one.

Any fucking time.

See you.

There's kids here.

Mind your mouth.

There's children right in front of you.

You prefer kids to see people dying outside.

Yes, I've heard in a public building.

Okay, who's back?

All right.

I'm obviously substitute.

So please not associate you with her.

She's great.

I'm asking.

All right.

We are at question three.

The meeting has been called to order again.

Uh I will read question three.

What do you want to see changed in the FY27 budget?

And first we have Mr.

Fay.

Hello, Ken Faye, District 8, RTM member, thanks for doing this.

What I would like to see changed in the budget is an increase to the regular human resource or human services budget.

That human services are very vital and important to the town.

It serves a purpose, and it is cheaper than first responders when it's done correctly.

All the organizations are here to help people.

There's an argument that they should be charity or not charity, but uh contributions.

Um what is it called?

Uh that people should uh have their own choice to pay.

But the town is very poor.

The people who use the human services uh organizations aren't don't usually generally give charitable contributions to them.

They use the services, and I think the town uh should uh collectively it's it's only one or two percent.

Uh actually two percent is what I'm uh looking asking for.

Uh to it uh and that's a rounding number.

That's so small on uh 200 uh 27 million dollars.

Uh so anyway, uh that's the gist of it.

Uh keep the human services uh uh budget intact, or at like two percent.

Thank you.

Thank you, Kevin.

All right, Randy.

Hi, Randy Blodge and District 7 RTM.

As I said in the September at our first listening session, Brattleboro faces a critical juncture in its future due to the confluence of evolving economic conditions.

We have a worsening business environment.

We have drug addiction, fewer new businesses, and an unprecedented surge in demand for essential services.

Around half our town is just above or below the approximate 49,500 living wage, with around 24% below the poverty rate.

Well, these challenges can be addressed individually.

Their combined impacts has strained our local our town government and its taxpayers to the brink.

A report two years ago by a consultant that the town had had hired, stated that we need around $700,000 to keep our roads in a neutral state.

We are currently only spending around $500,000.

There is the same lack of spending on sidewalks and other infrastructure.

We are deferring a lot of repairs and a lot of upgrades while trying to keep taxes lower.

But the problem is we're already too high on taxes to start with.

We are in the top five five highest tax rates in the United States.

The current proposed budget adds more staff, adds many more little increases across the board for expenses and assumes increases for revenue in a period of economic hardship.

We need to zero this budget out with real numbers, not a trash bag tax, not a pie in the sky estimate for EMS, business fees, sales tax, and other assumed revenue.

A 225% increase in the price, the price of pay to throw trash bags, around two years of uncounted man hour costs and trying to keep solid waste pickup as part of our taxes, with months more of those man hours to come, and human services at 1%, around 259,000, which most likely we all know will go higher based on how our RTM has voted in the past.

All these things make our tax rate closer to 10% than 4%.

There's also a supplemental request pending for almost $900,000 that will add in towards that 10% I'm talking about.

Whether homeownership or rental living, the escalating burden of real estate taxes and cost of living has left many residents wondering how to pay their bills.

A common refrain among residents I encounter is that their obligations exceed their mortgage payments or food and monthly rent.

Many express uncertainty about their ability to continue residing in our town.

Furthermore, small businesses are grappling with the same challenges, including reduced foot traffic, increased operational costs, and a declining local purchasing powder.

Consequently, some medium to large employers are considered leaving or relocating due to the high burden of benefits, the cost of living, and scarcity of affordable housing and labor.

Not to mention many retail businesses may close due to retirement of the owners in the next few years.

What will Brattleboro look like as this is already happening in real time around us?

To address these pressing issues, Brattleboro must adopt a more efficient and cost-effective approach to governance.

Programs and services.

Your time is up.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I thought it was 15 minutes.

Thank you.

And we all have your your written statement.

Thank you.

Okay.

Let's see.

Hugh Barber.

Good evening.

It's nice to sit on this side of the table.

I bet it is.

For those of you that don't know me, I'm a I'm a renaissance man here.

I've been here for 75 years.

I love the community.

We've seen some enormous changes.

From uh FY25 was 23 million.

Uh FY26, 25 million.

And you're looking for another virtually a million dollars this year.

And I have the unfortunate responsibility to tell you you're going to double the budget in eight more years.

You're going to be looking at at this pace that you're spending money.

You're going to be looking at a 46 million dollar budget in eight more years.

It's unsustainable.

That continuing escalation is going to have a devastating effect on housing costs, business startups, and commercial rentals.

Somehow the board has to level fund.

You all represent constituents that have voted for you.

And I'm encouraging you to show allegiance to those people.

And you can't tell me that there isn't some way to reduce the budget to level fund it for the next few years.

Initiatives, but I wouldn't vote for any budget higher than what we had this year.

And I would I would recommend that you somehow find that.

And I've heard there may be some avenues with uh solid waste and some other issues, and it may have uh some impact upon number of employees, which nobody wants to do that, but you got to remember the uh limited number of uh of people in the community, the population hasn't changed.

The grand list, I I'm not sure is exploding at this point, but that's your funding source.

So you're really caught between uh a rock and a hard place, but I would recommend uh level funded budget.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Frick, you're up again.

Frick.

Frick?

Yeah.

Uh I have brought up the subject of self-insurance on several occasions.

And um I know full well that policies, uh, catastrophic policies, high prepayment uh high deductible policies are uh readily available to the market unless it's dramatically changed in the last short while.

But um and they are typically part of the mix of a self-insurance situation where the population isn't quite big enough to support a complete uh cutting the ties with insurance companies.

So I I find your answer disingenuous from the earlier question about health insurance.

So I I would like to see a serious look at that that includes perhaps including other communities, other organizations if you feel like Brattleboro is too small, which I understand, but I think it needs to be looked at seriously.

You can ask for more information, but calling uh are the town manager disingenuous in his answer.

Uh I have a hard time with you may have a hard time with it, but I have pointed this exact fact out before.

Um so it's a it's a simple answer to a complicated question.

And and in bringing forth the answer like that, you're not you're not fully answering the question in a way that respects the question.

So I I would like to see more serious answers to these complicated questions that people are bringing up legitimate questions about.

Yes.

Sure.

Frick, I'd just like to respond briefly to say the health insurance aspect is tied up in union negotiations that we can't discuss.

We have discussed self-insurance options, and we have discussed self-insurance options with a backstop, like you're describing.

So that would have been a good answer.

Yes.

That is a slightly longer version of the answer that John gave.

I'm happy to give more detail, but I would love to at some point and it gives you later off.

But thank you.

All right.

Continuing with question three.

Now mayo.

Hi, Nell Mayo District 8.

Um, I believe this question was what we would like to see changed in the FY27 budget.

Um so I think a topic that has kind of carried over from FY actuals into our FY26 actuals is that over time in the fire department and even the police department to some extent is exceeding or is creeping up on those.

And I believe this is something I got secondhand, so please someone correct me if it's wrong because I didn't make the last select board meeting, but that it's been hard for the fire department to find people to fill those additional three roles that were approved.

Um so really it's just that I think the FY27 budget has to reflect what's coming into reality.

And so I'm not saying that high overtime numbers are ideal, but I think we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we set a target that's not going to be realistic to be met.

Um and I understand people's concerns with increases in like full-time equivalence.

Uh if we are going to run astronomical overtime, if those positions aren't filled, you know, it it seems like a necessity, at least in the existing departments we have.

Um so I understand that whether or not the positions can be filled is somewhat outside of your control as board members, but I do think that we are setting up for like continued deficits and for an unrealistic budget that will frustrate people if the numbers don't reflect what we're actually seeing in terms of actuals.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Susan Velva.

Susan Bellville, District 8.

Um I have said before that um it's time that the select board and um other entities in town start to manage expectations of the taxpayer.

Um the town has responsibility for infrastructure, health and uh safety um action plans around the police and EMS and roads and sidewalks and functioning water sewer lines.

We really need to stop with extras and focus on the core values uh that we need to um make the town successful.

I am a strong opponent to renewing or uh going into the solid waste contract.

Um if you take out the $500,000 estimated revenue from the trash bags uh purchases, which I think is way overestimated.

Um it's look at it's a nice it's a 1.9 million dollar budget for the proposed contract.

And that money can be better spent on infrastructure and um some of the things that we've had to postpone, delay, wish we didn't have to think about in the very near future, but we do, and I really want to see the the town gets out of the rubbish remove business.

Thank you.

Eric Karen.

Okay, that's what we're trying to guys.

You figured out how this works.

Yeah.

Well, that's you know, it's fair.

If if you do work, you generally like to be paid, right?

So that's how guide dogs work too.

Becky Sit.

Good girl.

Um this question was what services I think would be we'd be willing to or or what changes in the budget.

And I and I think that relates directly to services.

Um I I'm very uh impressed with what the Department of Public Works uh came up with for an improvement on the on the trash uh situation.

I would love to see us do continue with composting.

I think it's amazing and the reduction in of of waste and and the encouragement of other people to you know recycle.

Um but I agree with Sue that we and with Kate O'Connor and others that we need to get back to absolutely essential services because we have gone way too far over the years and and we can't continue this this increase in budget.

So I would also like to say though, take that another step.

I would like to see changes next year, including attrition, the use of that as I mentioned before, changes in next year's um budget that include getting a leaner um police department.

Yes, I said that.

Even though people say that if that happens, there'll be people defecating in doorways and so on, so on, and people get very emotional.

But I'm sorry, it's a very expensive department and a very good department, but I think they need to be challenged to be leaner and more affordable.

And I think fire department is the same.

They're a wonderful department, but they need to be leaned on to say you must be a leaner, more affordable department for this town.

And I I think I would like I really believe that those services need to be adjusted.

Um basically across the board, I trust the heads of our departments.

I think they need to be leaned on to use their expertise, and I hate to say it, I'd love to see services increase and so on and have the magic thing happen, but I believe we I would like to see a leaner uh flat funded budget for next year, no matter how much pain that causes.

And and I'm ready for that.

I hope others are too.

Thank you.

All right, our last speaker's Lisa Marie.

There's some other names on the door.

Are there?

I signed up.

Um probably on the machine.

Why don't you add your name to this and we'll just keep the one method?

Okay.

Lisa Marie.

Hi.

Um I do agree that taxes do need to go down for people because um if not, there's going to be a lot more homeless people.

Sorry.

Um, so there will be a lot more homeless people if they have to pay really high taxes and can't.

Um but I do think that we need to keep the brat team.

Um, I think that is very important because they are amazing.

They help uh a lot of people with DS de-escalation.

Um they help uh people in so many different ways I can't even describe right now because I just can't.

But it just anyways.

Um also if people want people to stop defecating on sidewalks, um public toilets, you know.

I will I'll do it for free.

I don't care.

People need to pee.

People need to go.

Defecate.

And uh there are people out there outside 24-7, and if they don't have a place to take a dump, then where are they gonna go?

I'm not trying to be crude, I'm not trying to be crass, but people gotta go.

It's a human function.

And um, so having a public toilet, whether it's a porter potty, a closet, anything, um would be amazing.

Uh yeah, there's so much more I would love to say, but at this time I probably shouldn't.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, son.

Uh Robert Ozer on number two.

That's already transpired, or no.

Robert Ozer, and I'll apologize again.

I went back and I signed all three because I didn't know which one was which.

Um I'm not a politician, but as a politician, instead of answer answering the question that was presented, I'll answer my own question.

So I'll rephrase the question.

And it's perhaps the question is what services that we're currently doing can be done less expensively.

And I think one of the select board members said this last year, that maybe we can do things differently, but accomplish the same result.

So I think there are a couple of examples.

But at one point in his remarks, uh he was saying maybe in the trash business, if haulers were permitted to compete for a share in the waste pickup contract, it would foster a more competitive market than dealing with the one monopoly.

Um my comment on that is that uh someone much smarter than I said that we're like somewhere between a small town and a city, and we're kind of stuck right in that position.

So we do things sometimes that are more sophisticated than they need to be.

We put up RFQs, RFPs, we get this information back.

We then have a competitive bid process for, and only one hauler was able to bear the expense of that process and be in the bid.

Can we instead reach out and collaborate with the other haulers who are around, maybe come up with a better solution for our trash business?

Um we have a proposal on the table in the budget for a decrease in hours in the fire department to get a fourth squad, and and that's supposed to be a way of enticing more people to join.

We can't get people to take the positions that are open.

But I think we need to step back and ask a question.

Since I stopped counting in February of 2025, but since 2021, we had 21 separations.

We're probably over two dozen separations now in the department.

What were the top three reasons for leaving?

Can we can we identify them and address maybe the issues around the reasons for leaving?

Was it lack of housing?

Maybe that's the issue.

Maybe it was something else.

We don't know.

Um today I was struck by something, and and and here's the problem.

Speaker of the microphone.

I'm sorry, I'll stay with the mic.

Yes.

Um I tend to walk around.

Um I'm always uh I'm always in trouble by my own attorney, right?

If I'm my own lawyer, because I get too involved in the issue.

But something struck me today that in August, I think there were three encampments that were dismantled.

What was the cost of that?

Okay.

And the answer to that, we don't know what the cost of those and of dismantling those encampments were.

But that's a budgetary issue.

Maybe that money could be maybe that money could have been spent differently and got people more secure in their living arrangements.

Thank you.

Um I'll just mention that when the legislators were here, we did discuss funding for cleanup, needle cleanup, etc.

And we will continue those conversations.

More speakers.

Aaron Smith.

Aaron Smith, uh, district seven.

Um lived here my whole life, and it's gotten to the point where the last couple of years affordability of taxes has been a real issue.

There's not going to be any one silver bullet to solve it.

But I do think as a town, we have to really consider what's essential and what a town is supposed to supply its citizens, you know, infrastructure being one of them, safety and security being another.

Um, but we have a lot of services like trash collection, leaf collection.

Those are all things that people should take their own personal responsibility for.

I don't see why that it's up to the town to administer those services.

And like many other have mentioned, you have one trash hauler that bid on it.

So what does that do?

That that leaves you in a hard spot, and that's where we are today.

If you open it up where the people are responsible for themselves, you'll get competition because there'll be, you know, not any one smaller service can now service the entire town, but they could might take on 20 percent, maybe uh add a truck, but you got three or four of those running around, and all of a sudden, with a competition, instead of annual service being $65 a month per citizen, it drops to $50.

You know, and I think those are things we really have to look at, you know, what the town's responsibilities are to its taxpayers.

I mean, I suggest in this budget that we level fund it.

And it's gonna be a combination of things to get you there, whether it's eliminating trash service or appealing to your department heads and telling them all we have to see a 5% reduction in what your spending is and leave it to them.

They know their departments better than anybody.

I can't stand here and say each department has to do this to save X number of dollars.

That's what the department head's job is, and I'm sure they do a great job at that.

And if you had a budget and you said your budget is five percent less, you make it happen, they may do it by waiting till printer paper is on sale at Staples.

They may do it, you know, there's going to be a combination of things, and it may be a lot of little things to get us there, but we can't afford these increases at this rate in this town.

We just can't.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Caitlin has left the building.

Bob Oser again.

Thank you.

Andy Davis.

Andrew Davis, District 9.

This has been on my mind a lot.

Um this is quite a process that you all go through with this budget.

But there's one line item, one section that at RTM we separate out from the budget, which is human services.

And I'm concerned about, I'm increasingly concerned about the process that has evolved around setting the amount of human services.

I'm all for spending on human services.

Um, but I feel like something has gone a little haywire.

There was a time historically when RTM reviewed the amount put forward by the select board, discussed some things, asked questions, and then approved that.

And that amount had been set during the budget process.

I'm sort of wondering, you don't have to answer this, but I'm wondering how it feels to you to be working on a budget where up to 400 over 400,000 could be changed in March by the RTM.

And we've now evolved to a system where RTM sets the amount for the following year.

We approve 2%.

Well, if you add uh if you increase the budget a small amount, that rides with it.

And I'm feeling like that human service, we should go back to a time when you all you are the legislature.

I think there's a general misunderstanding in Brattleboro that RTM is some sort of legislature.

By Vermont state law, we're looking at the legislature right now.

It's you, our select board.

By law, you are you have the purse strings.

RTM has no money.

We review, we ask questions, we interrogate, we can make amendments within certain guidelines, but you are the ones who all of your discussions are public, all of your decisions are public.

We vote for you to set those priorities.

And if we don't like the decisions you make that you're not spending enough on human services or you're spending too much, we vote for you.

There's this big discussion about well, how do you hold RTM accountable?

RTM was never designed to produce uh to raise funds to say you should spend this amount.

I think I would propose that we go back to a time where you all put that in the budget.

We always have been told on other line items, you can change the overall budget, but you can't go in and tinker with line items.

I feel like you should have the power, as our legislature, to set the amount of the human services budget in the context of what's going on in this entire town.

I have that confidence in the democratic process, and I think you should take that on.

Thank you.

Well, I'm curious how you're getting around the fact that RTM had a legal vote setting it at 2%.

It said up to RTM changing for March.

If we have RTM in March.

Well, but that's capital I, capital F.

Okay.

Moving right along.

Um Jackie Pinger?

My name is Jackie Pinger.

I think maybe I'm district eight, I'm not sure.

Um one thing that makes me incredibly nervous is when I was reading something that was sent to me from the town about uh a revaluation or reappraisal of our um property, and I know how much the town needs money.

That's kind of what we're all about here, and I worried that because uh values of homes have gotten stupid high, but we're not sure if they really are worth that.

Um and so I I worry a little bit that they'll say, well, we now we know how we can make money, we're just going to have all those high values and have property taxes go way up, and then we can afford things, and I wondered if that would just push people out of town because things are so high as they are, and I was looking at the projects page on the website, and I was at a meeting.

I live um off of Williams Street, so you know what I'm talking about, um, and the amount of money that they were looking at a particular project, and it just makes my heart sink.

Um, it's in the it's in the name of safety, and we all want to be safe, but I worry a little bit about it.

Um that's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Uh, that's a really good question, Jackie.

I just want to say um, you know, there is a process for the reevaluation.

I'm gonna ask John Potter to answer that for you right now.

Um, so the town is uh undertaking a reappraisal, which will happen in 27.

And uh there's actually gonna be an informational meeting about that, I believe, on the evening of November 20th.

Uh, but uh don't quote me on that.

I'll I'll uh try to get that information out at our next select board meeting.

And uh the appraising consultant will be there, will come and give a lot of really good information about the reappraisal.

But basically the the key thing in the reappraisal, the way it affects people is if your property is revalued differently relative to everyone else's, then that could have an impact.

But the amount uh that that the town taxes doesn't change except through the budget process, it's just where is that spread out across the community, and that's really the purpose of the reappraisal.

Randy, did you want to talk about this topic?

Just a point of clarification to that.

I'll keep it short.

So just one thing to add if you actually look at that whole process and you look at the current uh we'll say evaluation talking to some realtors.

Commercial properties have not risen like residential properties have, and we have less of them.

Residential property values have gone up, so there's a good chance beyond whether somebody's property they've made improvements or they've done things, that the residential tax rate will increase slightly per person, more so than the commercial.

So it has you know it's gonna go more to the commercial side.

So everybody's probably gonna see a little bit of an increase, maybe one percent, two percent what I'm looking at, but that is an issue we should also be considering.

Thank you.

Ivan Hennessy.

Um Ivan Hennessy, District 8.

Uh the rest of what I want to say depends on me being right about this first part, so I need to check in.

Um, my recollection of the solid waste presentation from the last select board is that the um the idea of having people privately contract for waste removal would overall be more expensive than the town contract.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay.

So if you look at a spreadsheet, you don't get the story of what happens with the money that we're talking about here.

Because if the town doesn't take on solid waste disposal, individuals do, overall, the town itself ends up paying more.

So that's a bummer because the people in the town are paying more.

But it's not evenly distributed because when the town pays more, it's property owners paying more.

And that sort of gets distributed to renters, but it's a slow, obscure process.

So what happens when individuals have to pay for waste management is that the people who spend the largest portion of their available money end up having to spend it on something else.

So that money isn't just like causing a hardship for them.

It's being removed from the local circulation as opposed to the people who have assets.

That's what all that property is.

And people with assets don't spend as much of their money.

So by removing that money from the people who have assets and putting it into circulation to serve the town, you're also freeing up money with the people who don't have as much assets who end up spending all of their money anyway.

So these things aren't just a line item.

It's a network.

When you do one thing here, it changes things over here.

And solid waste is actually the perfect example of something where the town doing it is a benefit larger than just the line item figure.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Neil Manders.

Thank you.

I'm Neil Manders, District 7, uh RTM member.

Um basically just a few quick things and then maybe a little summary.

Um first of all, I think we could do without the without the solid waste.

Um it would not be all that difficult.

I wish we had more time.

It would not be all that difficult, for example, for me who lives at the corner of Abbott Road and Ames Hill Road, to be able to take Covey Road people, Ames Hill Road within a reasonable distance, set up a nice big dumpster, and we'd all congregate and work it that way.

Uh and then have a Cassella come and pick it up.

But so there's a variety of other options to that.

But I know you guys have worked for two years on trying to figure this this much out, so I'm gonna leave it up to you as to is this the best way to go.

Um I do think that uh I see that you've got a 1% in there for the uh human services.

I would like to see you put a number on that instead of putting down the 1%, because what's gonna happen is if you suddenly have uh additional added items to the budget.

For example, um there's a there's a uh was it not major fund that is being uh refunded uh that's gonna add in there.

I think that's the $900,000 uh figure that's coming in there.

Um if in fact the your uh negotiations for insurance goes way up, that's gonna have so if you're if you don't have a number on that, each one of those rises, you're gonna choose a 1% of that to hand off to somebody else.

So put a number on it and say this is where we are.

I'd like to see the number be zero, and I know that that's not a popular demand.

Um, I figured that my taxes, my taxes eat up 20% of the of the um my retirement money when I was last employed.

Right now, the taxes on my place are 20% of that.

Uh that seems pretty high.

So I'm all for keep this budget at zero if you possibly can do that.

And then the last thing I'd like to say is that I want to applaud you guys for making this as open as you possibly can.

And I would I know that things are gonna get really crazy as we go along between the charter coming up, between the RTM, do we have it, don't we have it, between the one person one vote the item, between open town meeting vote.

Really, we need to get out and educate the population about what's going on and why it's happening and how it's not going to make them all roll over and die.

Uh because I'm telling you, I know that if March comes along and two weeks before March, we suddenly get this barrage of information.

Oh, by the way, did you know that the one the uh human resources are already locked into the current piece for the for the human resources or the finance committee is locked into this?

Or do you know that if RTM doesn't vote this way, that happens?

You gotta clean it up, and so I ask you to please do that.

Thank you very much.

Sure.

Thanks.

Neil, I just wanted to give a little info about the human services, the the percentages of the previous year's budget.

So it's one percent of whatever last year was, so there should be a number in here, and that won't change as this year's budget goes up and down.

So that's still a good budget, David Spinnow.

Spencer.

Oh.

David Spencer, poor handwriting.

Not a handwriting analyst.

No, that's okay.

Uh I am on Oak Street, and I have forgotten if that's district nine, so help a brother out.

Yeah, the mic up a little bit.

Sorry.

Um, first off, what I wanted to do was thank you guys.

I I hope you're enjoying the job that you got elected for now, and I wish you the best in the next five miserable plus months that you're gonna have, but it's gonna be uh um it's appreciated.

Um and and uh I've I moved here a little over a year ago, hence I don't know what discrimin district I'm in, but I have been paying attention to the last year or so on on the fascinating local budget.

I moved here from DC.

Um I really think this is a great forum you guys do here.

It's uh even though it gets emotional, that's a good thing, right?

That means people feel comfortable explaining themselves, sometimes too comfortable.

Oh well.

Um, but that's people communicating, and that's always best.

Um my assessment in coming from DC is that the rents are way high, and property value not so much.

Don't understand how that got to be the case, but I feel like I can buy a place pretty easily here.

I was stunned at the rents, and I came from renting on Capitol Hill, three blocks from the Supreme Court.

Um I sense this is a town that has a shrinking tax base.

Sorry, I uh I need to talk louder.

Um I sense this is a town that has a shrinking tax base, and that's why we're going through these.

So I would in from my career perspective would suggest keeping the budget the same.

Um always have their needs and their pet peeves and their pet desires.

I would recommend, if possible, in going through this budget exercise, trying to explain what you can do to make things as efficient as possible.

I think that's been a theme here, but also what the path to get there is, knowing that it can't all be done in a year or five months.

You've got unions, you've got contracts, you've got commitments, that sort of stuff.

Sometimes it's a buy down of years.

If that's explained, I think things go easier.

No one's gonna like the budget, but at least they'll understand why.

And if you can have something that says, here's where we are today, here's where we want to be, but we can't get there in five months.

We have to get there in three months or three years or something because of contracts or what have you.

Follow the bouncing ball, right?

Um realizing that real requirements come with real dollars, so if you want to do something new, guess what?

Something else has to go then.

Um and how do you have 12,000 people make that choice for you?

I I don't know that answer for you.

You guys are much more experienced at that.

So um my two cents from a person who's only been here about a year, but uh is appreciating what you're trying to do.

Uh but I do think the budget is probably gotta stay where it's at, and hard decisions have to be made.

And how do you go about building the business back up?

How do you get that tax base going again?

How do you get more rent of revenue in?

And is that something that like when you lose money money with research and development?

You usually that's the first thing that goes.

For a town, building a tax base is your RD.

Can you put money in?

What where does that money go to that could increase funding so that we are not worried about taxes as much five years from now?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

De Gray.

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.

I have some concerns about the way the budget was presented.

I've heard a couple people mention realistic.

I certainly am not uh in favor of the supplemental budget.

I believe that uh that should be taken out, and the board should deal with all the items that are in that supplemental.

I think you're setting a dangerous precedent by having it an article question and letting RTM have discussions about what they want or what they don't want.

RTM in its present form doesn't have line item authority.

They can certainly suggest cuts or add money to certain line items, but you're certainly not uh, as you know, compelled to follow that.

Uh I think if you're going to do that, then I guess I would suggest to you that every item in the capital budget be an article question and let RTM decide if we want to buy a dump truck here and I uh because that's where we're getting to when you when you start shifting line items over to RTM.

I think that really, really it's never been done.

I think it's a dangerous precedent, and I don't think you really want to do that.

My concern with the human service budget uh is I think it should be in the present budget at 2 percent because that's what the history has been.

Not that I disagree with you that it should be 1 percent or lower or not at all, but the reality is you're following what the what the history of that has been, and it has been at 2 percent.

I wish somebody would do some homework on it because I've been here long enough to remember the human service, each line item in the human service way back when I got involved in the 90s was a separate article question.

And the uh the body get to if they wanted to add money or subtract money to it, and then uh a select board member named York Meyer did some research, and that's when the process changed.

And I guess I would ask John to get with the town attorney and actually come back at the next board meeting and see if this is statutory that we have to set a number because I believe there's something in a statute that says it's been taken out of your hands.

And so to get control of it, I think we need to find out what really causes what's going on with the human service budget and the committee, because I know I know one thing when I was on the board, I'm glad that it was taken out of my hands and given to a committee.

So uh if you do those things, I mean, in reality, I'm saying it's speciously about uh the the capital uh items, the trucks and all that, but I do believe I'd rather see you start with the budget and make your reductions and where it ends up, if it ends up at seven or eight percent, then to go to town meeting with a 4.4 percent budget and have it raised by RTM because they want more sidewalks and they want this.

I think we have a responsibility to maintain our town.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

Um that concludes our question.

Yeah, that was that was probably here we have.

Oh, Spoon, there you go.

Please join us.

Hard to know where to begin.

Um I think a lot of us are aware, of course, you know, our our federal government spends 500 billion dollars enhancing the military and internal uh homeland security, and then would prefer not to provide health care or even food stamps.

And now we have a budget before us in this town that provides one point six million dollars more for police and cut a four hundred thousand dollar human services budget by two hundred thousand.

It may seem to you that the thinking is very different between those two things, but it isn't.

There's every everything living wants to live.

When a human being is hungry and hasn't got food, they face a choice of starving to death or finding food.

Most will try and find food by any means necessary.

And the cost of preventing that is far more than the cost of providing the food.

If people here, there are people here in this room who probably didn't understand the outburst earlier by that woman.

They don't understand because they don't know that tonight it was announced that the single refuge that the homeless had in this town, 69A, was told they have three weeks to vacate the premises.

That woman was screaming out of fear and desperation and anger.

And the consequences of that may be far more than paying the rent on a place that they could be.

Never in the history of since the whites invaded this land 400 years ago.

Have we faced a future like we face now?

And I don't feel like we have had, like you have, the select board, the administration, and I don't know about the whole town.

I think the whole town collectively does have what it will take to respond to what we need.

It is not going to be, it cannot be a traditional solution because the traditional path doesn't get us off that path.

It keeps us going just the way we're going.

It keeps on.

What are you gonna do?

Year after year, you're gonna keep cutting the human services budget in half, while more and more and more people are slipping from middle class to lower middle class to poverty.

Mr.

House.

Okay.

I've probably said enough.

Thank you.

All right.

Um that concludes the listening portion.

Um each select board member has an opportunity to give concluding remarks.

And Oscar, would you like to begin?

Sure.

Well, thanks everyone for being here.

I'm glad that we're doing these.

Not respond, but just I think it's important to plant a few flags on things that came up tonight so that if you think I'm wrong, you can seek me out and argue with me.

Umly the the big two budget items are compost.

I I have no particular passion for the town doing it versus contracting for it.

The only reason we're exploring it is because we think it'll save money.

Yes, it adds positions to the budget, but we think overall it will save money.

That's our I think really our only motivation there.

And then on the question of trash, I don't know.

I think if you took a vote of people in this room, you might get a decision to not do it.

I think if you took a vote of the town, there would be overwhelming um surprise that it was even being considered.

And people everything I've heard privately is that people feel very strongly about this service and they rely on it.

So I think it's something reasonable to consider and I'll keep considering it and hearing arguments on it.

I really think it's a service that people rely on and expect from us.

Other than that, please reach out any time.

I'm happy to get together and talk and would like to do that.

So thank you all.

Thank you again for coming tonight.

Um I agree with Oscar.

I heard those themes loud and clear, level funding and potentially eliminating solid waste from the budget.

Um solid waste collection, the town and the budget.

Um just uh reminder that when it comes to contracts that we that the select board oversees for the town, those happen in executive session.

So we cannot disclose the process of that while it's in process.

Um, but we have that information ready when it's ready for our public select board meetings.

So thank you for bringing your opinions.

It's really nice to hear it in person.

Thank you, everyone who has shared.

Um, a few of the things that I heard in terms of themes were one, a desire for fiscal responsibility and really keeping taxes in check.

Uh people wanting the budget to be as realistic as we can get it.

There being interest in the idea of uh reductions through attrition.

So with people when people leaving their positions looking at whether we can do without for a period of time.

Um in terms of the trash, one of the things that we have done is the current budget that you've been looking at and this new um proposed proposal that we're considering would save 1.3 million dollars over the next three years compared to the last negotiation, the last thing that we're looking at several months ago.

So compared to what we were looking at in April, we'd be saving 1.3 million dollars over the next three years by getting the town to take on the the trash on the compost, uh keeping the bags instead of moving towards an automated, we're having to get um the bins, which we were looking at before the um the autumn for the automated trash, keeping it with pay as you throw with those bags and increasing the cost of those bags.

So I I don't know, I want to give a shout out to our colleague Amanda Thurber here for really encouraging us to take a closer look and continuing to bring up the topic of trash removal.

Um and then the final thing is I I there were there were good reminders about the context that we're operating in in terms of the massive increases to health insurance and the importance of finding um that we heard the town manager talk about, finding what is the best deal that we can get, where can we negotiate on that?

Um but we are facing really massive challenges from the federal government, um from spending priorities that are outside of our control.

So the question is, well, what can we do with what we do have?

And all of you are really important resources in addition to every dollar that our town has.

Thank you.

Uh so yes to all the things, right?

Everybody came up here.

They um I would say 90% of you made cogent points and and you know, stuff to really sit and reflect on.

Um I said at the last select board meeting that these conversations usually ignite cut conversations and slash conversations, and it's just because I think that's kind of our default setting.

Um, if you if if you can't afford it, you can't have it.

And if you have it and you can't afford it, you get rid of it.

I remain focused on trying to find new ways to drive revenue to support this town, to build our tax base, because in the end, that really is the only sustainable way forward is to find these places that we can grow our grand list, whether it's through business, through residential, which is not that easy as we know.

We hear conversations about rents versus buying a home.

We've heard those conversations over and over again.

So I'm I'm just gonna remain sort of focused on these con these things, taking input from all of you.

I know all of you know how to find me because you all have found me.

All right.

And you've talked to me, and I've always appreciated those conversations.

Um and and these are what helped me form my decisions.

So I don't again want anybody thinking I'm making these decisions in a vacuum because I'm not I go with what I am told by a majority of the people that talk to me.

If you all want to talk to me I'm easy to find but I will be focused for the remainder of this year and next year on trying to help this town move forward and driving revenue and building our grand list so that this does level out.

So I just wanted y'all to know that well I thank my colleagues I thank you all for being here.

I heard a lot of different things I just want to uh mention a couple things that uh really weren't discussed um number one I heard you all about we need a very lean budget and and that has been our mantra to keep it as lean as possible.

But I think that there's a some other things that are on the revenue side that we should be discussing that first of all there is a focus on economic development second of all there is new housing being proposed in this town and being built and I think we need to recognize that that that took a lot of hard work on the on behalf of our town staff and it's bearing fruit in terms of new housing coming online.

But the the other thing that I think is very important is that when the legislature came we asked for several points of state aid that the legislature seemed our legislative delegation seemed very willing to pursue and we need to pursue it with them and those things include needle cleanup funds that our town is now shouldering coming from the opioid settlement funds reestablishment of the rooms and meals tax that has been not available for the motel program.

And lastly revenue sharing and this revenue sharing um we will be working with other similarly affected towns such as Rutland and Barry and so forth to make sure that the state is educated on the costs that we bear for first responders that are directly tied to the motel program.

And they're willing to hear that they're willing to finally to understand that and we need I'm working to get that information to the legislature so that we can get a solution for that.

So in terms of you know there's certainly expenses but there's also revenue opportunities.

And then with that I'll just thank you all very much for coming we have many more select board meetings where we'll be discussing the budget.

The next one is Tuesday night please come we'd love to see you.

Thank you.