Welcome everyone.

I'm going to call the select board meeting of Tuesday, January 6, 2026 to order.

We had an executive session at 5 30 and no decisions had been made.

And this is a regular meeting.

John was appropriately warned.

Yes, Liz, it was.

Great.

Are there any adjustments to the agenda?

I'm not aware of any.

All right.

Thank you.

All right.

Let's let's approve the minutes from December 16th and December 22nd.

May I have a motion?

I move to approve the meeting minutes that were just mentioned.

Great.

All select board members in favor of approving the minutes from December 16th and December 22nd.

Please raise your hand.

Okay, that's 50.

Chair's remarks.

I went to the doctor's the other day and he said there was the flu everywhere.

So go home and wash your hands.

And everyone is welcome to speak.

There'll be a two-minute limit.

And I have a sign-in sheet for each section of tonight's report.

And that would be public participation and then each of the agenda items.

And the reason is that I've been criticized for not properly addressing people.

So if you write down your name and I have your name and I can pronounce it, then I think we'll all be on better footing.

So that's the rules.

And basically, you're all welcome.

You're all welcome to speak.

And please no personal attacks.

So managers comments.

Yes, I I just wanted to wish everyone a happy new year.

I hope your 2026 is fantastic.

Unfortunately, we closed out the end of last year with a fire on the afternoon of December 27th on the sixth floor of the Samuel Elliott Apartments at 107 Elliott Street.

That fire was extinguished by the well-functioning sprinkler system in that high-rise building, but it caused damage to 18 apartments.

I wanted to thank the Brattleboro Fire Department for their response to this emergency, and also wanted to thank those who supported this response for the town, including the Brattleboro Police Department, the uh Brattleboro Department of Public Works, the Depart the Recreation and Parks Department, Chesterfield Fire Department, Keene Fire, Guilford Fire, Putney Fire, Dummerston Fire, Greenfield Fire, Westminster Fire, the Cheshire County Ambulance, and Green Mountain Power.

The coordination of the professionals in these organizations allowed for a quick stabilization of the situation and uh and quick assistance to the residents.

The Brattleboro Housing Partnerships and the American Red Cross acted quickly and efficiently to help the significant number of people who are displaced due to the extensive water damage in the building.

Christine Hazard, the executive director at Brattleboro Housing Partnerships, updated me today.

There are 13 households in hotels.

Four households are staying elsewhere.

One apartment was unoccupied at the time of the fire.

The uh BHP resident services staff are supporting those who are displaced and uh are looking for long-term support.

Their contractor Serve Pro completed drying of the building and uh in targeted areas and another contractor GPI was hired to complete additional construction.

There's a target date of January 15th for eight of the households to be back in the building, and a target date of January 30th for four additional households.

Six remaining apartments will be displaced longer.

Um the BHP employees have been working many extra hours over the last week and to continue to go above and beyond to support their residents uh during this time, both the the residents on Elliott Street as L as well as elsewhere in Brattleboro Housing Partnerships properties.

If you'd like to contribute to this effort, uh we've had requests about people wanting to know what they can do.

Uh donations can be remitted by check or money order payable to Brow Brattleboro Housing Opportunities Inc.

100 percent of every contribution will go directly to residents to replace damaged items.

Remit to Brattleboro Housing Opportunities Inc.

P.O.

Box 2275 Brattleboro.

Uh their Federal ID number is 56-2405695.

Brattleboro.

Yep.

The 56-240-5695.

Brattleboro Housing Partnership staff and board are extremely grateful to the town and the town departments for their support and collaboration during this difficult time.

The increased partnerships that have been built over the last few years has laid a foundation which created much more positive outcomes in this in this event than would otherwise have been expected.

Any of those days.

Completed petitions are due back to the town clerk's office by 5 p.m.

on Monday, January 26th for town officers and representative town meeting members.

Incumbents for RTM members who have terms expiring will be mailed a notice of intent form in early January and must return their signed notice of intent form by also 5 p.m.

on Monday, January 26th.

Town elections will be on Tuesday, March 3rd at the American Legion, located at 32 Linden Street.

An annual representative town meeting will begin on Saturday, March 21st, 2026, at 8 30 a.m.

in the Brattleboro High School Gymnasium.

Also uh emails have gone out to dog owners this morning about dog license renewals.

We became aware that there's an error with some of the fees that were charged, and anyone who has overpaid will receive a refund on the difference to their card as soon as we fix that issue.

And that is everything I had.

Great.

Thank you, John.

Welcome.

Are there select board members who uh would like to comment?

I'd love to say something.

I want to say happy new year, everyone.

Um I want to express some gratitude because this December has been one of the coldest that I can remember.

Um I want to express gratitude for our social service agencies that have been working to keep our neighbors warm this winter with overnight shelter.

Groundworks, beloved shelter, Brattleboro Housing Partnerships, with the support of our Brattleboro Police Department, Brattleboro Fire Department, and our EMS and our Brattleboro Rec.

So thank you.

I also want to express gratitude for an amazing miniature festival, the first annual.

I've been informed, as we all probably have, that it's going to happen again next year.

Um a lot of appreciation for downtown Brattleboro Alliance, Melanie Kahn, who spearheaded the project.

Um this project brought energy and visitors uh to make our main street um really bright over the 40 the last 40 days.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Very good.

Then uh let me ask members of the public if they would like to speak on a topic that is not on tonight's agenda.

And Seth has a sign-up sheet.

Um there are not many names on it, so if you would like to speak.

There's more up there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Kate O'Connor.

Ken Faye on the United States.

Hi, everybody.

Um, Kate O'Connor Brattleboro.

I am getting up to ask you folks to take something off the consent agenda, which is the HVAC rooftop unit at the fire department.

And I would like to see you have a public discussion about that, because while in the backup materials, there's an explanation of the problem.

There's really not a complete explanation on why the HVAC money is coming out of the fire engine replacement fund, because obviously the HVAC is not a fire engine.

So I think the public deserves an explanation of why that money is being used and not another source of expenses.

Let me remind you, Kate, that it is being discussed in our budget discussions.

But it's under the consent agenda to approve that expenditure.

So it would be really and using the FY26 money.

So it would be really nice before you folks approve that so that the public can understand why you're using fire engine pillars money.

So I would love it if you would take it off the consent agenda.

Who's next?

Ivan Hennessey.

Hello, Ivan Hennessey, Brattleboro, Vermont.

Happy New Year.

I think that it's a great chance to do a little bit of reflecting and in reflecting over the course of uh select board meetings last year.

Um I I stumbled upon a recollection of something that uh was quite alarming.

The intent to use a business mindset to approach town matters.

And uh the town is not a business.

The town does not have customers or shareholders or owners.

I understand that.

People try to use business as a shorthand for fiscal responsibility, but fiscal responsibility is fairly rare in business, and it's certainly not the defining characteristic.

Business is defined as being for a certain select group.

And um a town cannot be for a certain select group.

Um I hope that this year the town government will be for the town.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Randy Blodgett.

Hi, Randy Vlodge, District 7.

Uh consent agenda problem with the HVAC as well.

And I think I'd like to see where is that on a five-year plan, a 10-year plan, a 20-year plan of all the HVACs in town.

Because this is going to be a problem, things wear out.

So we should be planning for that and have a place to pull it from.

And so I'd like to just make sure we're going to do that.

All right.

Ken Faye.

Hello?

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Can you hear me?

Because I could and then I couldn't.

Okay.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

All right.

I would just like to uh uh commend or not commend, comment on what I learned in the past week or so that our fabulous library director, uh Star Lam uh Electronica is leaving in a few months.

I wanted to thank her for her service in the community.

I haven't been here that long, but it is um she has been great for the library, and the library is a great place.

And I hope you remember that during budget discussions and not try to um Can you hear me?

Yep, yes.

Oh, okay.

Um and not not try to save pennies on the dollar by cutting the library's uh uh expenses.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, is there anyone else who would like to speak about an item that is not a news?

Yeah.

All right.

Eric Karen.

Thank you.

I just wanted to also add my um concern about the HVAC uh issue being on the consent agenda.

I'd like to have it pulled, please, so we can have a more full discussion.

And uh secondarily, um I read about the hard work the Department of Public Works did in the freezing cold on that sewer line, and I just think these guys are uh are heroes.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Tom Grasso.

Good evening.

Tom Grasso, President of Brattleboro and RTM member.

First of all, happy new year.

Um I'm gonna do something unusual, partly because uh I read a lot of vitriol in the paper recently about some of the decisions that the select board has made recently.

So um and I say this as somebody who's spent the last 30 years as a public interest environmental lawyer criticizing challenging government action to do the right thing.

So I'm not saying this in this Pollyanish way that you might think.

But I want to thank the three members of the select board who voted for the zoning ordinance at the last meeting.

I also want to thank the fact that we have a great um program of support for the police department, the fire department, social services, the library, um roads, education, all things that make up a great society, and I hope we continue to support those programs, all of them.

If we're gonna cut the budget, let's cut things that aren't fundamental to what makes a society successful.

If we want economic development in this town, you need to have things that people want to see as business people who want to come to this town.

If you don't have a police department, if you don't have programs that help people in need, if you don't have a fire department, if you don't have education, then what are we doing here?

Should we just get rid of all those things and just you know we can all you know throw our trash in the streets, uh get get a pay our kid pay for our kids to go to private education?

Some of us can do that.

A lot of us can't.

So in a progressive community, we should be sort of supporting the sort of social services that make this a good place to live.

Thank you, and I'm going home for dinner.

Thank you.

Uh Jane Congleton.

Hello, I'm Jane.

I grew up in Brattleboro.

Um I'm a dancer and an artist and a child care provider.

And I wanted to add to the list of um folks and groups keeping people warm this winter.

Just um am I supposed to speak to things that are not on the agenda today.

Cool.

Um I was really have been horrified by the zoning ordinance that was passed recently, um, which directly targeted uh places like 69A Elliott, which is now at 134 Elliott.

It's open 10 to 4 Monday to Friday, typically.

Um I think it's opening again on the 8th.

Um because some of the folks holding it down there have been um needing to respond to the level of um attack that that space has been under and as a um place that is warm and open for literally anyone to come and ask questions and bring all of their confusion um and to be curious um about that space in the face of all of the misinformation that has like traveled around the town about it.

Um it's it's been a life-saving place for me.

And I like this logic.

I also wanted to ask if anyone in the select board has ever had a friend in jail that you've tried to contact on the phone.

But I'm not expecting you to answer that.

I'm wondering if you've ever had a friend psychiatrically incarcerated.

And if you've ever had to try to call them.

Um that moment on of trying to reach them on the phone, you will see that there are so many levels of isolation.

Donald Trump is advocating to hospitalize involuntarily every homeless person um across this the country.

And this logic of isolation is not different from what the town of Brattleboro has been implementing to suggest that people should not be allowed to rest and sleep and eat and have housing.

Um a progressive town that is acting this way.

I progressive means nothing to me when it's being used to describe a town that's acting this way.

Um I'm really disappointed and alarmed.

And I have friends on the street who have cancer who are elders and are wise and cannot have their art and their wisdom be Jane, please wrap it up.

Yes.

Um we need we need everyone's wisdom to be able to find a solution.

So please listen to the people who are most impacted.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Trish twinning.

Can you hear me?

Now I can, yes.

Great.

Uh Trish Twining Brattleboro.

I just wanted to add uh my uh voice to the request to remove the item discussing the rooftop unit at Central Station.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Andy Davis.

Good evening.

Um I just wanted to add to uh just a short comment about the program down at 69A.

Uh since I learned about this whole thing last month, I've been in there several times.

And I'm just hoping that as they go through their process of working with the planning and development review review board, that the attitude is, as was stated, um, to work with them to make what they're doing work and not be uh try to make it not work for them and uh take away the service that they're offering.

I find the place to be compassionate.

I've never felt in any danger there.

I've run into former, I'll just leave it that I've run into former people I worked in as a teacher in the school system.

I've seen people have really positive reactions uh to one another.

I've also seen someone getting slightly out of hand and it being handled perfectly.

And I just hope that you on the select board work with these people who are creating something that doesn't fit into a neat box that is maybe in traditional planning categories.

And I hope that the term third space gets used plenty because it's something we should all learn about.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Steve Peterson.

Hi, can you hear me?

Peterson, District 7.

Um I just wanted to uh express my support for the decisions you made about trying to uh find a workable solution for the 69A.

Um I know it was a tough decision, but I believe it was the right decision so that everybody in town can find a way to coexist successfully, harmoniously, peacefully.

I I think that what 69A is doing is critical.

I think what they're doing is noble.

I think it's and it's only going to become more and more and more important in the future.

So my belief is that we need to be prepared to embrace these types of things, but we need to do it in a smart way that doesn't threaten the viability of say that's that salon that went out of business because of it.

We don't have to stomp on other people to care for the ones we love too.

And and we need to be smart about it, and I think the select board is being smart about it so we can grow the economy to bring in the money to pay for these very things that we want to do for those in need.

That's all.

Thank you, sir.

All right.

Having heard from everyone.

Um move on to the consent agenda.

Is there a select board member who would like to poll an item on the consent agenda?

Yeah, let's pull it.

Yeah, item G.

Someone want to make a formal motion.

I can make the motion.

Um I request uh I make a motion to um remove item G, replace rooftop unit at Central Station from the consent agenda.

All select board members in favor of removing item G from the select consent agenda, please raise your hand and say aye.

All right.

Great.

That passes uh three to two.

I for the minutes.

Do you want to ask who's voting against that?

Sure.

Uh anyone not in favor of opening up the consent agenda, please raise your hand and say aye.

Anyone abstaining?

I'll just be present.

There you go.

All right.

Uh John, you want to give us a nickel tour of the remaining items on the consent agenda.

You bet.

Uh so then you have eight items on your consent agenda tonight.

If you approve this agenda, you'll be approving the official naming of the town property at 805 Western Av as the Whetstone Food Forest.

You'll be accepting a proposal from Stone Boat Consulting for final design permitting, bidding assistance, and construction phase support for the church street retaining wall project at a cost of $13,100.

You'll be approving a tobacco substitute endorsement permit for JK store located at 69 Elliott Street.

You'll be approving a parade permit for a homelessness awareness action day parade on Thursday, January 22nd from Pliny Park to Main Street to Elliott Street.

You will be authorizing the Department of Public Works to apply for a $5,000 urban and community forestry program grant on behalf of the Tree Advisory Board.

You'll be ratifying the decision to replace two inline turbine pumps at the wastewater treatment plant for a cost of $37,600.

You will be authorizing the evaluation and preliminary engineering of the Sunset Lake Dam as required by the Vermont Dam Safety Program for a cost of $46,000.

And finally, you will be approving the small business assistance program loan application from India Masala House for a $45,000 loan at 5% interest for seven years as recommended by the Small Business Assistance Program Loan Committee.

Great.

Is there someone who would like to make a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended?

I would like to move that we approve the consent agenda as amended.

Great.

All select board members in favor, please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye.

And that's 5-0.

You did vote for that, didn't you, Peter?

Oh yeah.

I was allowed to be able to do that.

I didn't hear your head right now.

I was I was all in.

Okay.

Next item is regular business.

Item A is removal of encampments, a presentation by 69A, Grandworks, and the town health officer.

Let me invite Lisa Marie and Caitlin to the table to present.

Thank you.

Oh, well, thank you.

I hadn't planned on saying anything here, but I'll just say welcome and thank you for taking the time to talk with us.

I had asked for this issue to be placed on the agenda because in I believe it was the end of August or early September, there was an article in the Commons about removal of encampments that had raised some concerns for me, and I'd heard from members of the public about some questions, both about the process of the removals and as well as the as just people expressing concerns about the way the fact that there wasn't a designated camping place and struggling to find out where was acceptable to camp.

So I thought it would be useful to hear a little bit about what that process is and uh what are opportunities for improvements and potential collaboration to make this work better, understanding there are many people who are affected by this policy, both people who are camping and people who are our neighbors and other community members.

Great.

Lisa Marie and Caitlin, please uh welcome and uh whomever like to speak or speak first, please proceed.

Thank you.

Um I want to thank you for having us.

Uh also briefly personally, I've already sent this to the select board, but want to apologize for anyone else in front of whom I've yelled at meetings before.

I might cry tonight.

That's like the other option.

Um I want to like when we ask questions about policy, I feel like there's some sense that there's an embedded criticism about the people who are involved in enacting them or the intentions of the people.

And that is not we're like asking real questions because we are seeking real solutions.

And we certainly don't question that people having to carry out enactment sweeps and removals do so with empathy and/or don't want to do it or have the best intentions and officially in their job capacity, do their best to connect people with the service agencies in town.

We also don't question that individuals working at the service agencies in town or the agencies themselves don't have the best of intentions and do their best to connect people with official resources.

Um the issue is that there are not official resources to connect people to.

There is no next step from no matter how good of an intention someone is going to an encampment in Brattleboro with, there is nowhere to go.

There is no shelter to go to.

In Brattleboro, all of the hotel beds are full.

We can sometimes find people a bed in Bennington or Rutland or Bellows Falls.

Um, but then we can't get people there, and but any long 92% of the shelter beds in Vermont are full.

There's no there's the official count is 3,500.

I think the database count is 4,500 homeless people in Vermont, and there's 600 and something beds in the hotel program.

There are no shelters, and more so there are no next step solutions.

There's no transitional housing, there are no recovery programs, there's no sober housing.

Like again, I acknowledge my part in this, but I feel like a lot of the conversation revolves around what we don't agree upon.

I think that we all agree upon a lot of things.

A lot of us don't want to see homeless people on the street.

Maybe we don't agree upon the reason for that, but that is the fundamental truth.

And that's it.

We just want people to be connected with the next step of resources.

But the reality of it is that there aren't any, and that is continuously in the narrative being overlooked.

And it's reported as though people are just living in the woods because they've used up all their voucher programs or they don't want to get a job, and all that is just simply not true.

When you don't have housing and you don't have access to that, you don't have access to dentists it's just an endless loop.

I know everybody here knows that.

I don't need to explain it to you.

But if you don't have dentistry, you don't have teeth, you can't get a job, you can't get housing.

If you don't have housing, you can't get a job, if you don't have an address, you can't get a license, on and on in an endless loop.

And they're really, again, I fully do, I'm not just paying lip service.

I really do believe in literally every individual's best intentions when they're going through this stuff.

But as a community, as neighborhoods, as a town, as a state, and as a country, we do not have solutions in place to help people exit these horrifying and absolutely untenable situations that they get into for all kinds of reasons, and is impossible to get out of.

Like we are getting personally attacked, like I just why?

I really you know, I know this is about encampments, but like the people who are in the encampments are the same people at 698, and I feel like part of the issue is that people genuinely can't believe that we wouldn't be a charity agency because you people can't believe we are just there with our neighbors, really trying to help our neighbors like be okay, and really invite all y'all to come spend time with us there.

Like you will see it's not what you think that it is.

Lisa Marie, would you like to add?

Um, so a lot of people get moved along, whether they're sleeping on a bench, sleeping on the sidewalk, sleeping in a tent.

Um, and I understand that you know everyone needs a place to sleep, and I understand that a lot of people are afraid of people who don't have a place to sleep, and hobophobia is severe in this town, and it's very sad, and it it goes from all the way from the top to the bottom, and you know I try to educate people a lot, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Um, do I have all the answers?

Absolutely not.

No one does.

And do I pretend I have the answers?

I try not to.

I really try not to say, oh yeah, I know when I don't know, I'll tell you straight up, I don't know.

You know, and the problem is is no one has a place to go.

And having encampment encampment removals, okay, is a serious issue because then there's more people technically on the street.

And I don't understand I don't know if you if if people understand what that truly means.

It's not about garbage, it's not about needles, it's not about alcohol, it is about women getting raped because they are cuddling next to the wrong person to stay alive in the winter.

There is one in particular person who gets raped every single night out there on the streets, and they are too afraid to go to the police.

They are afraid because they are afraid they're going to get in trouble.

They're afraid nothing's going to happen.

They're afraid the person's going to find out and it's going to get worse.

They are afraid for so many different reasons.

There are there are people who are getting beating.

And not just from other homeless people.

This is not homeless on homeless crimes out here, guys.

And that is a serious issue in this town.

And no one is talking about it.

Yes, okay.

I understand no one wants to see a bum laying in the street.

I get it.

Do I want to see that?

Hell no.

That is why I and Caitlin are trying our hardest to do something about it.

Yes, we're a little art space trying to make a difference in this town.

Because there are so many people who hate.

And I know this because I was one of the people who have been hated and still am hated.

I have been living on the streets.

I have been raped.

I have been beaten.

I have been so much stuff.

I have gone to the cops and asked for help.

I have gone to town members for help.

And no one helped.

So if I can help, I'm going to.

If I can fight for a place for someone to sleep, I'm going to.

And you know, compromise.

This town needs to compromise.

Yes, everyone in the in this community has something to give.

Okay, everyone.

And a lot of the times people see community as housed.

And there are so many community members in here that are not.

They have jobs.

They have children.

They have lives.

They have family members.

Not everyone is a drug addict.

Not everyone is an alcoholic.

Some are, yes.

Some are straight up jerks.

I'm gonna say that.

And some are really amazing people.

Talking to people and saying, hey, you know, can you not deal right here?

Is a scary thing.

I get it.

So don't call somebody and say, hey, this is happening.

Don't assume that it's a little art center's fault that people are crapping in the street.

Because guess what?

They were crapping in the street before we got here, and they're crapping in the street after we leave.

You know why?

Because there's no public toilets.

I think that's the solution to like we're saying, there's no what whatever we agree and disagree upon, there's nowhere for people to go.

So this problem is not going to go away.

So again, sometimes people hear us saying you can't police this away as saying, abolish the police.

That's not this problem.

If the town would experiment with encampment places instead of saying the current apparently, I read through the packet, so the response as far as I can tell, the town policy is now gonna be people are not allowed to sleep on public property or on private property.

So literally, I want someone to tell me where you think people are going to go besides dying.

Instead of saying people can't go anywhere, can we designate an area where people can go in town, even just for the winter?

That park up above the retreat, nobody goes there really, or they can come there.

People say wherever, I don't care where it is.

There's a whole beautiful new map that is wonderful and online made available of publicly owned land in this town.

If we have a place where people I have watched encampments, the warning camera that is still up and the one place in town that is still there has been a long-term encampment that is does has done a very good job of self-regulating and taking care of issues when they've arisen.

And that is possible.

Like people are able to work together when given a little bit of agency and a place to actually not feel like they shouldn't exist and that all anyone around them wants is for them not to exist.

When they are given that, I anyway, I've been guaranteeing that out loud.

I'm just saying, like instead of telling everyone where they can't go, and then that leading, if you trace that logic out, there's nowhere for people to go except prison or dying.

We have to have, as a community, we have to have another solution.

And we have to come up with that together because it's not coming from the state.

Because 48 shelter beds is not enough for the amount of homeless people in this town.

Which again, 4500 statewide, which is definitely an undercount, and 1,500 of which are children under the age of 18, and a bunch of which are disabled and elders.

Not to mention all the people elder, all people who are just displaced from that beautiful that fire, which I will mention, hasn't been mentioned in any of the official reports.

But Lisa Marie also opened 69A that day immediately, so that people displaced by the fire, so I believe should be added to the list of thank yous.

Um but they're all displaced now as well.

It's not getting better, housing prices aren't going down.

And I genuinely feel like we should all be in it together, and that is what upsets me when I do get upset.

At the very least, the people who are trying to do something could be left a little bit more alone.

So just compromise.

Thinking outside the box.

You know, more trash receptacles.

These are people I love.

We love all these people.

They're just we love all these people.

We know them and love them.

We know their life story, we know their families.

I've seen their belongings, they're not garbage.

Um I really appreciate y'all inviting us specifically.

So thank you.

Liz, could we ask you?

Well, thank you.

We have room for questions.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us.

Um, and your vulnerability and honesty with sharing about your own experiences.

Um I you know, the focus really of this conversation is around the removal of the encampments.

And I'm interested to hear, and it I I heard uh one thing is that people don't have a place to go, so you'd like to see some some options.

And I'm um and I heard at just at the end, I heard you make the suggestion of more trash receptacles.

Um that I I heard that.

What there were other things that I had heard um and other concerns that had been raised by that article.

Uh are there any other concerns you have about the process?

Um how it's being implemented.

The process.

Okay, so it is very difficult for people to get their stuff back.

Um almost impossible if impossible.

People do not have phones, they do not know who to contact, they do not know how to get their stuff.

They they have no idea.

And then they go to certain organizations.

Um sometimes they are able to help.

Um, they go to a business per se.

And we try our hardest to help get their stuff back.

We have not been successful yet in doing so.

Um, you know, what consists of personal property?

Is it just mail?

Is it a a purse?

Is it a keepsake that somebody has kept for 10 years out on the street that may look like garbage but means absolutely everything to that person?

You know, personal property means a lot to people who have nothing.

And for someone to come in and deem what is personal property and it's not, that's a little concerning as well.

Um, you know, if there's blankets and things that you know don't have mold on them or other hazardous materials on them, is that a personal property, or does that go in the trash too?

Certain things like that is what people want to know.

And it's what people are needing because you know, getting the stuff that say we give somebody an entire thing to be able to sleep, a tent, sleeping bag, you know, a couple blankets, a pillow, and then a week later, it's gone.

Um it's very hard to get that stuff to begin with, and then to replace it and replace it and replace it.

It's putting actually more burden on the townspeople who are wanting to help than it is not.

I have personally experienced, yeah, the difficulty of as a person with a phone on behalf of a number of people I've called the different places you're supposed to call and find out if they're storing your stuff in the packet that I read today, it said it's always stored uh um the Department of Public Works, but that's not been the answer that we get on the phone when we call, and it usually has taken quite a long time to actually talk to a person, and then it's usually a few more phone calls, which again, if someone doesn't have a phone is never going to happen.

And it usually has taken quite a long time to actually talk to a person, and then it's usually a few more phone calls, which again, if someone doesn't have a phone is never going to happen.

And we have been told a number of times, and I am again genuinely not criticizing any individual.

I think it's just bureaucratic red tape, it's not designed to be useful in this particular situation.

Um people telling me that they didn't find anything that was worth saving and that it's all just like rotting blankets and garbage.

I know that's not true because we give people new stuff every time this happens.

So I know that the stuff they have is new.

I know it's not rotting and mold covered because we just gave it to them.

Um I also know, yeah, again, the personal details of stuff people have lost.

But again, it's like we can talk about the in like there's sob stories and then there's politics and all the other stuff, but again, the reality of it, it's all just we all can agree on the stuff we don't want to see.

We don't want people shitting in the street.

I'm sorry, we don't want people defecating in the street.

We need public bathrooms.

If we don't want people carting and leaving their stuff everywhere, we have the very least need public lockers, which could happen down by the new whatever it is in the transportation center.

Um if we don't want people sleeping outside, we at the very least need to have dedicated safe places where we can go and community support it and not cost the town anything and then work to build housing solutions.

Um public lockers would be amazing.

It would because there's literally no place for anyone to store anything.

I'm sorry, Lisa Marie.

Yeah, there's there's literally no place for anyone to store anything because 69A cannot do it.

Um we just can't.

There's we don't have the room.

Yes, we have a bigger building, but we still don't have the room to store people's belongings.

Groundworks, I know, does not store people's belongings.

Same reason.

And so they're gonna stash it in a bush if they can't carry it around all day, and then somebody finds it, oh, it's abandoned property and throws it out, things like that.

So just having a simple, you know, solution of the put a quarter in to get a key.

If they lose the key, well, then that's on them.

You know, something something very simple.

So that way, you know, personal belongings aren't just strewn all over town.

So thanks.

Are there other select board members who would like to comment?

Yes.

Just briefly, thank you both for coming.

I remember the first couple times I spoke here, and I know it's very stressful or can be.

Um, so I appreciate that.

I think it was actually an excellent presentation.

I thought you made your points really well, and there's a lot for us to think about.

Um, certainly I mean, I think one of the first early conversations I had after getting elected, John, with you and me was just sort of talking about the idea of how you could make a public an officially sanctioned public camping area, and I think both our minds immediately went as they're going to do to all the ways that that's sort of scary for the town or causes liability for the town and uh all that.

It's still something I'm interested in.

I'm still very intimidated when I try to think it through what that would actually be like.

But for me, the the core point which you've highlighted is the unfairness of a situation where people are being criticized for something that they can't avoid doing, right?

Um and the bathrooms are a great really specific example of that.

Um lockers again, nobody wants nobody, I think, uh from any angle wants to see somebody sitting in a pile of their own stuff on the sidewalk.

But if you have no apartment to put it in, um it's gonna be with you.

So I you know, it was uh great presentation, intense.

I'm gonna have to digest it, but I appreciate it from both of you.

Anyone else before I open up to the phone?

I want to I want to thank you for your courage for coming here and for your testimony.

Um it's very impactful.

I also hear some very concrete solutions that you suggest that I think are make a ton of sense.

Um, starting with the more trash receptacles.

So I urge you to um submit kind of an idea proposal or a map of locations where they could go in the town, um, if they should have a sharps thing or whatever to um submit that to the town manager perhaps, and then we can it's something that that would be a budgeted item, but if you think that would help the situation, um the uh you know the the storage of items like lockers or whatever, um you know, I think we do have an opportunity to collaborate with the work that you do because you're doing the lived experience work with the people.

This is that collaborative piece, um, so that we can work together.

Um it might not be the whole wish list, but some progress would be better than none.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh shall I open it up to the public?

Steve.

Oh, um, by the way, I have sign-up sheets for this section as well.

So um has anyone signed up for this section?

No.

Well, then um Steve, why don't you start and then um other people can sign up.

I need two on one.

Great.

Yeah, Steve Zalozny.

Um, yeah, I know we've got a uh really difficult problem in town.

At it for quite a while, homelessness, it's it's not an easy thing to solve to help people that need help, you know.

Um just want to as a as a resident of town for for many, many years, born here 70 years ago, as you probably already know.

Um 15 years ago um on some property that I have in Brattleboro.

There are a lot of homeless people encamped on it, similar to what's happening today.

So this was quite a while ago, it's not it wasn't current, and somebody told me about it.

I could see some activity there, and I said, uh, I feel sorry for them.

I you know they don't have a place to live, so I just kinda let it go, you know, for six months or or so, and then one of the my butters abutters uh called me and said, Well, it appears that these people are stealing some items from their business next door, so they said we can't you know do anything, it's they're on your property, so I said, Well, okay, I'll talk to the police and see what they can do at that point in time.

So I did that, and um part of my point is you know now we have a something in place to deal with some of this, but back then uh we were told to leave and take their belongings with them, you know.

And when I went down to see what was there, there was it was quite a mess, you know, there's not not sanitary at all and uh a lot of trash there, and back then I didn't think about needles and things like that myself, you know.

So um they finally left.

I I saw them on the street back then, just like I see some of the homeless people today, and they were they said, Well, we're apologize, we're gonna clean that up, you know.

Um I said, great, you know, hopefully they would, you know, uh, but it never happened, you know, that stuff's still there today, you know.

Um where it was.

Um so recently on the same property in a different location.

Steve, your time's up, so break it up.

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Okay.

So now the town has something in place, you know.

I didn't know what to do.

I saw a property there which was current.

Do you go in and remove it?

Are there people have medications there that they need?

Am I liable if if I were to remove something?

And on the other hand, there are drugs there or their needles for illegal drugs, you know.

So what we've got in place now help that situation because I didn't know what to do legally, and I think there's a better process now.

The only other comment I want to make is I know some people that are concerned with 69A, they have children and they're concerned about what could happen there.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Does anybody else need a sign-up sheet?

Great.

Um I'll take that sign-up sheet and use it, if I may.

Would you like me to get it grab it?

Thank you, Ivan.

Thank you, Amanda.

All right, spoon agave.

I think everybody is aware that one of the major topics or subjects in this country, around in many places of the world, is AI.

AI is a tool to replace human labor with robotic labor or non-human labor.

The unemployment is increasing.

The intent, if you study this issue, is to replace as many people as possible, as many human beings as possible.

For every million people that are unemployed in this country, if it was spread out equally, there'd be 60,000 in Vermont.

And if we and if it was spread out equally in the state, it would be about a hundred and twenty in Brattleboro that is out of work in this country.

If they put five million people out of work, that could be six hundred more unemployed in Brattleboro or the area.

What will homeless lists look like then?

This board this is a tremendous problem.

It is nothing like we have ever faced before in our history.

This board is not capable of dealing with it.

There is nobody that has the background, the information, et cetera, to deal with this problem.

What you are capable of doing is asking for help because there are solutions.

It's going to be, and I know this is very difficult to do, because the real discussion is going to be about as a community, how do we respond?

And there is no way to respond without sharing.

Sharing is not a part of the American way of life.

Mr.

Agabe, please it has to become a way of life.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ivan Hennessy.

Something that people in this setting will not be willing to say.

This is a very polite place, despite how emotions may be raised.

Something that people are not willing to say in a place like this is there are people in this town, maybe even in this room, who believe that if we're unpleasant enough to people, they will flee.

They will go away and they won't be our problem.

And uh I gotta tell you, it's a fantasy.

There is not like a highly mobile homeless population.

People with no resources don't have the resources to just run away.

Um we can't uh destroy their homes so many times that um it's not worth it to be here because this is where they are.

Um it gets fed by the fantasy that you know, like during the pandemic, everyone came here.

No.

A few people came here, maybe, but it takes money to travel.

And one of the things that poor people don't have is money.

So when people encourage you to limit services to maybe not put as much effort into making sure that people can get their stuff back.

Um they're pushing that agenda of cruelty that um assumes that people are mobile or hopes that they're going to die.

That's an agenda that people are pushing on you.

Please watch out for it.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

DeGray.

Uh Mr.

De Gray, I think District 8.

Thank you, madam chairwoman.

Thank you for the presentation.

Thank you for your apology.

I've been where you're going, so I know what passion's all about.

Uh one of the things that you did bring up, two things actually.

One was the bathroom situation, and I know that the redo in the transportation center is supposed to have public access bathrooms.

Uh that's my understanding.

I thought that was part of the project, so if someone could fill me in on that.

And then the second thing that I heard was that there is an encampment that's still existing today.

And I thought that was quite interesting.

And you said because it is being well maintained.

And I I don't know if we're going to hear the other side of the coin about why these encampments and what happens when they take them down and how filthy they are and uh all the needles and everything else that we read about and hear about.

I did teach uh speak with a board member and said that uh if there's space to be given by the town, that needs to be part of the conversation.

That we just can't let people uh have encampments and not maintain the property that they're on.

Uh that's one of the scary issues I think for the town, and I think Oscar just alluded to it.

So if someone could talk to me about the bathroom issues, and I don't know where the discussion is going to go if the town could possibly open up spots, but there needs to be rules for that if that happens, and if they can't be abided by, then I'm for taking them down because uh just because you're homeless doesn't mean you have to be uh for lack of a better word, uh pig, as my mother used to say about my room.

May I make a clarifying remark?

Is that a clarifying remark?

Sure.

Um I want to clarify one reason that camp is stable, actually the main reason at that campus stable is because it's been allowed to be there for a while.

It's impossible to build stability and any sense of like a clean home when you're constantly like moved around or trespassed from one place to another.

So just all kinds of data from here and elsewhere.

So like people, yeah, it it's it's long term.

I mean, it's like self-regulating, and then people come help clean it up enough that it is again when you get people the support and resources they need, because again, you actually can't help living like a quote unquote pig.

I assume that outside of your room, you had a bathroom, and also your room had walls, and your house probably had a trash can.

So if your room was messy, you had solutions for that.

If you're outside and you don't have a bathroom and there are no trash cans.

Um also can I say something about this one particular camp really quick?

Um, this camp has been um located there for about three years.

I know this because I helped set it up.

Um there is three uh like kind of like Porter John's, kind of.

Um there they're camping toilets that um has a Hume Manure um uh composting thing that people can put it in.

Um there's um a lot of really cool things there that um makes it makes life easier.

Um, but the one really big thing that they do have trouble with is garbage.

Um, you know, so they do have like cleanups there and things like that um within the community and getting help from outside.

But um, and you know, sometimes they're allowed to use business as dumpsters, but it's still very difficult with the trash there because throwing trash out is difficult when there's no home to say, hey, let's take the trash out today.

You know, and and no one there has a car, so okay, thanks.

Sorry.

Um Bill Harvey.

Could you answer the bathroom question?

I'll answer the bathroom question when the town presents Yes, Bill Harvey.

A bit of a testimonial from homelessness to wholesome living.

I just want to say to the everybody that when I was born at the age of two months, I was burned by a vaporizer, exploding vaporizer that exploded in my crib and it went all over my legs, and it kept me from staying in the service.

I have a medical discharge because of that.

I also want to say that at the age of 17, actually 16, uh my mom and dad had been divorced since I was seven, and my mom said to me, I'm selling the house, and you're not gonna be able to move in with me because I don't have enough money to support you.

So at the age of 16 and a half, 17, I found myself homeless.

Well, back in the 60s, and during that area, we called ourselves hippies.

And what we did is we established a commune.

Not uncommon.

The difference, the major difference between what happened then and what is happening now is that at that time this town, this area was very uh pro-industry and pro-business.

I graduated from high school in 1970, and I was able to get a job because it was a Brattleboro book press, because there was a con cell, because there was an American optical, and you could have a high school diploma and get a very good job with a living wage.

With a living wage.

I think that the idea that was established a long time ago that somehow the Vermont area would become uh uh uh an an industry where people would want to come and visit and go skiing and do all these other things.

I think we need to bring industry back.

I know that's a long-range plan, and I know how hard it is for businesses, but I would also suggest a graduating minimum wage rather than a regular minimum wage for everybody, and people aren't going to work at an early age anymore, that perhaps from 14 to 18 minimum wage $10 an hour, from 18 to 24, whatever, maybe $12 an hour and so on.

So that people could start with a work ethic early in life, because that's what happened to me.

And I'd also like to say uh on top of that is I think that overall we as Americans need to get back to the realization that families are important.

We're at a result right now of a book that was written by a person I won't mention because I was told not to.

That it takes a village to raise a person.

I want to tell you that sounds good on the outside, but everybody is selfish and greedy, and nobody wants to share what they have with anybody else.

But in a family, you do want to share, because that's blood.

And I think we need to get back to the importance of having a family.

Mom and dad taking care of their kids.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um Veronica Wheeler.

Oh, yeah.

I didn't realize I was signing up to speak.

Oh, if you don't wish to, that's also fine, Veronica.

Whatever you want.

I'm Veronica Weolac District 2.

Um, I want to know where these people can go.

Uh where can they go?

Me too.

That is the question, Veronica.

Um, that's that's the policy question that we're here to discuss.

Well, when I think of a good answer, I'll let you know.

Yep.

Um, let's go online then.

Start with um Gemma Seymour.

Jim and Seymour.

Good evening, everyone.

Um, I would just like to uh say that I know I've said this before, but people may not remember.

I was homeless when I came to this town, homeless and unemployed.

I had no place to go.

And an old friend offered me uh a place in a cabin on the side of a mountain in Dummerston 11 years ago.

And uh so I've had uh some experience with being homeless, and I've been homeless in this town twice since of the housing situation, that you know, the severe housing shortage here.

Not through any, you know, particular fault of my own.

I'm not addicted to drugs, uh anything like that.

It's just uh sometimes it works out that um you know people who are renting places don't want to rent them anymore and they uh evict their tenants.

Um as a member of the the planning commission now in this town, I I would like to offer my services, my time and my effort, because I'm a person who believes in putting your time, effort, and money where your mouth is.

And working on the problem of uh determining where in this town are good places for trash receptacles, where a good place for possibly a permitted encampment to exist.

Now I understand from both sides of this question that the idea of allocating town land to an encampment raises a number of issues and problems that we would all have to deal with.

However, it's my firm belief that this is something that we ought to do.

And uh so I'm willing to put myself on the line, my reputation, my time, my effort, in order to make this happen.

So I would very much invite everyone in this town who wants to be involved in this effort to contact me, and my contact information is available at the Brattleboro website.

I am a representative town meeting member for District 8 up through 2028 and a member of the planning commission up through 2029.

Um I have no plans on going anywhere and I want to be part of the solution.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up is Jessica.

Jessica.

Hi, can you hear me?

I can, thank you.

Great, thank you.

Thank you so much for the opportunity to join the select board meeting today.

My name is Jessica Radboard.

I'm a senior staff attorney at the ACLU of Vermont.

And I'm here tonight to ask the select board to table the motion to adopt the town's encampment response approach.

First, I'd just like to note that the at the ACLU of Vermont, we believe that homelessness should be rare, brief, and non-recurring, and that when people are experiencing homelessness, they should be able to access accessible shelter options.

But here tonight we're talking about people who are unsheltered.

Now, after I became aware of the motion on tonight's agenda earlier today, I had the chance to quickly review Town Manager Potter's December 30th memo.

Um and in the memo, it indicates that you reviewed civil rights guidance from organizations, including the ACLU of Vermont.

Uh and the memo also indicates that the policy is fully aligned with this guidance.

But I am here with an offer for you.

Um we'd like to have time to review the proposed policy in greater detail so that we can provide you with tailored feedback.

We have data.

We have data specific to Vermont to Wyndham County.

We've been reviewing the case law on this.

We'd be happy to share all of that.

Um we can share a bill that's going to be introduced a session related to encampments.

So to give us time to be able to provide that tailored feedback to you.

We ask that you table the motion.

We'd also be happy to engage in dialogue, do a presentation at a later select board meeting, and we thank you for considering this request.

Thank you.

Who's next?

Abby Thanks.

This is Abby Manukin, um, town meeting rep District 8.

Um I wanted to thank Isaac for putting this on the agenda this evening.

Um I really appreciate having more of an opportunity to talk about this as an as a community.

I also appreciate um Caitlin and Lisa Marie so much for all of their work um and for um agreeing to come do more unpaid labor here on an a weeknight evening by presenting to the select board.

Um I also want to thank the um speaker from the ACLU who just spoke, and I really hope that the town will take her up on that offer to um have the ACLU review anything before decisions are made.

Um I feel I I very strongly support um having specific legal areas on public land where people can camp and have designated encampments that people can use um safely and um until ideally there is access to more affordable housing.

Um but without that it feels similar to the issue with like if we don't have public restrooms where are people gonna go, we need to offer these solutions.

So I hope that the board will really take this seriously um and instead of just saying no to solutions that are being um presented, we'll really consider the options and act with um with compassion and intelligence and empathy.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh next up is Robert.

Robert Hello, Robert Ozer, Brattleboro.

And uh as we were talking here, I remembered that in May of 2024, I helped with a cleanup at uh the cemetery.

Are we not uh see the speaker by you?

Is that is that any better?

Yes, it is.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um so Robert Ozer Brattleboro.

Um while while folks were talking, I recalled that in May of 2024, uh I had participated in the cleanup at a cemetery in town.

And the BRAP team was um available during that cleanup, and uh there was a lot of stuff that needed to be removed from a ledge in the back of the cemetery, but there were two tents which were in fairly good condition, and we were told we were admonished as we were doing this to leave those tents alone.

Don't go into them, don't do anything with them.

And so apparently there's been some policy change between May of 2024 and the time when the article hit the commons about the dismantlement of encampments.

And so the uh issue today is to look at a presentation about that, but it it appears that that's already been done to some extent.

Um I I read some of the backup material, so I'll try to do this very quickly.

Page 39 in the backup does say that civil rights guidance from organizations such as ACLU is fully aligned with this guidance.

And um Jessica Radford from the ACLU kind of stole my point here because I was gonna ask what the verification of that was.

And it seems like that should be a work in progress.

And maybe we need to look at that a little bit more closely.

Uh so that motion to table uh might be something that's quite relevant.

Um page 40 says both town staff and outreach workers are engaged to offer services, shelter connections, and support.

Now I guess I'm gonna steal uh Veronica's uh question.

Um because if the shelter is full and groundworks is not has any more capacity, the winter shelter is either on a day that's closed or they're at capacity.

Where can I go?

Where can you go?

And we apparently have no answer to that.

Um also on page 40 uh says notices are posted giving individuals sufficient time to gather belongings and relocate.

And my question is what is sufficient time?

Uh it doesn't seem to be defined in the in the uh procedure.

Um and then also on page 40, whenever possible, personal belongings are identified and stored to minimize an already stressful experience.

I think that whenever possible goes to whoever makes the decision that those items are not worthy of being stored.

Uh but uh so uh let me go back now and and could you repeat where I was before I stopped?

Uh whenever possible, personal belongings are identified and stored to minimize an already stressful experience.

And so the question is where does that uh does experience back this up?

Could the process be clearer and more precise as to whatever whenever possible means?

Uh and that it's not just judgmental.

I think that uh I think that ends it.

Thank you very much.

Matthew Smith.

And then Cecil.

Okay.

Um Robin Morgan, District 8.

I um really appreciated the the presentation tonight, and and I want to express gratitude to Caitlin and Lisa Marie and to the Jessica, the ACLU rep who is also attending this meeting for sharing their um experience.

I also want to appreciate the select board for having this conversation because I know that this has been a contentious issue for years, and um I'm really appreciating what I see in the select board comments of openness to collaboration to to solve this uh issue and make things better, not to come at this in in a um oppositional way.

And I I'm really hoping that folks will also use the ACLU as a collaborator.

Um it certainly would be a costly experience for us to move forward with a plan that ended up resulting in legal action.

So I um I also appreciated that so many of the specific needs around folks who are living unsheltered have been discussed.

And that even if you decide to table this motion and talk about it more with um legal counsel and and ACLU support, that those problems don't have to be tabled.

We can start working on those straight away.

I know that the select board has been willing to take swift and dramatic action around this issue in past meetings, and I hope that we'll be equally urgent about solving some of these unmet needs for our neighbors who are living unsheltered this winter.

Thank you.

Okay.

Hi, can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay, wonderful.

Um, I'm somebody that works in Brattleboro and has been part of uh my name is Cecil and I'm calling in from Brattleboro.

And a point that I would like to make, you know, sort of in tandem with everyone else is that I think it's within the town's best interest to take up the offer presented by the Vermont ACLU.

Um, I really think that having the broadest perspective possible will allow us as a community to really develop a sustainable plan.

And the more feedback and input that we can get from not just our community members, but other communities in the state, uh, even throughout New England, you know, I think that that would be really valuable.

I also just want to make a note as somebody that has been a service provider and currently is a service provider in the area.

That a concern that I've had is having all of the supports available to those that are unhoused, be focused in the center of town.

Um, I hope that going forward, we can think about folks in West Brattleboro and near the hotel, like the Quality Inn, who, you know, may not be able to access the same level of resources because all the all the people that are unhoused in our town matter.

And I encourage us as a town to think more about outreach support services to help meet people where they're at.

And I think having an increase in outreach services to areas where there could be potential encampments, it would it would allow for there to be more oversight, more collaboration, and more direct support and relationships built between our unhoused community members and our housed and service provider uh community members.

Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

Laura, my name is Laura Chapman.

I'm president and felt moved to speak because decisions made in Brattleboro deeply affect um people within the town, but also beyond the town borders.

And uh I want to thank everybody who spoke here.

Um, it was far more productive um than I had anticipated it would be.

I thank the select board and town staff and community partners for the difficult work you do.

I've been a part of this work and I know how hard it is.

Um please know that even when I disagree with you, I respect the effort and care many of you bring to this work.

For transparency, I volunteer on the groundworks board and I'm a former staff member and have lived experience.

For clarity, I'm not speaking for that board or any organization.

I'm speaking for myself and to advocate for others.

And I, much like many of you probably are am feeling pretty exhausted right now.

Um, lockers, bathrooms, trash, receptacles, sharps disposal, and safe camping space have been discussed for so many years within these communities.

I worked for groundworks during the years when the town did have a camping area they allowed.

It was not a great site.

Um, there were real reasons to close it.

It was down a steep hill and in a flood zone, but there were also strong reasons to find a safer and more humane location instead of eliminating the space altogether when people have access to shared space, bathrooms, trash disposal and safe places to be.

Public health improves, emergency calls decrease and or can also be um brought to certain one space.

Um and community spaces function better for everyone.

That does not mean it would look perfect.

And yes, your fears are um definitely warranted to some degree.

There are scary elements of taking a leap like that, but it's also better than having people scattered without access to bathrooms or trash disposal.

I'm also trying to understand something I've heard in this meeting, and I've heard from others that the current hotel program has state approved hotels in Brattleboro that are not full at this time and could take more people, yet individuals are being sent out of town away from their supports.

Keeping people connected to their local services, health care and community relationships, improve safety and long-term outcomes for everyone.

And I'm interested to know if the town has a role in limiting local hotel placements and if those limits can be adjusted.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

That's for the comments.

Let me thank uh Lisa Marie and Caitlin for your presentation, and then we'll hear from Becky Best at Groundworks.

Is she here?

Um Becky, you can uh come to the table if you'd like.

Um and I see Libby Bennett as well.

To be clear, we thought we were all gonna three all three presenters.

We're gonna be at the table at once.

Would it be helpful if Chuck just joined us?

Yes, to save time.

That's okay.

Okay with you.

You that's your option.

Do you want just to have Chuck with me?

Yeah, I'll be good.

Great.

Okay, so we're also asking assessment.

I'm sorry.

Of course.

Um we have Becky Best, assistant chief Chuck here, and we have highway superintendent Darren Fichica.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Um, thank you.

However, you want to present uh your welcome to I guess we'll we'll let you start first, and then we'll come fill in.

All right.

Hi everyone.

Thank you for the invite for tonight.

Um, I want to start off and apologize for my voice.

Um, it has been uh decreasing over the day.

Um so I uh will ask that you bear with me.

Um, and so I will be mostly reading from here due to due to this um happening.

So my name is Becky Best.

Um I am the director of shelter um at Groundworks Collaborative.

I oversee uh the drop-in center at 54 South Main Street, our coordinated entry program, um, and our street outreach team.

Um, as we continue to uphold our policies around health and safety in our space, um, this has led to an increased need amongst those who remain on shelter when day or overnight services may no longer be an option for them.

Um the vital partnerships that we are and have continue to develop uh with Brattleboro Police Department, Brattleboro Fire and EMS, and the Department of Public Works assist with these challenges for us.

These collaborations have been essential, not only in serving our unsheltered neighbors, but in strengthening our community as a whole.

Our team meets twice meetly uh weekly at 7.30 a.m.

with town partners to compassionately walk through encampments and areas where people may be sheltering.

This collaboration has proven instrumental for several reasons.

First, it enables us to um have critical wellness checks, especially during this adverse weather.

We can ensure that those staying outside are medically stable, assess their immediate needs, and arrange emergency transport when necessary.

Second, it provides real-time support and connection, a cornerstone of our work that allows us to offer basic needs assistance and connect individuals with services in the moment.

We can confidently say that we're proud of these collaborative efforts.

I have been consistently impressed by the trauma-informed approach Brat PD officers bring to each encounter and the care everyone takes with people's belongings.

We have not witnessed tent sloshing or careless disposal of personal items.

Instead, we have observed great care in preserving what can be saved while responsibly removing substantial amounts of trash, debris, and waste.

I myself maintain regular communication with DPW.

Um, multiple BRAP PD officers, including Assistant Chief Jeremy Evans, and our assistant fire chief Chuck here, all of whom prioritize a proactive connection first approach approach before making any site decisions.

Individuals receive fair warning, and we collaborate to determine what support and resources we can provide immediately.

Additionally, our partnership with the Bratt team and Project Care combined with many, many outreach visits, ultimately has saved lives.

Groundworks Collaborative is deeply grateful for the town of Brattleboro's commitment to this thoughtful dignity-centered approach.

This collaborative model represents what's possible when human service organizations and municipal departments work together with shared values of compassion as well as accountability.

We look forward to continuing and strengthening these relationships as we work together to better serve our community members while creating safer, healthier outcomes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Chuck?

I'm I've prepared a presentation for tonight.

There's a lot of information that I want to share.

I'm very appreciative for this conversation, both from the select board perspective and from our community perspective.

I know there's a great deal amount of questions around this issue.

This is a very, very polarizing issue, and that I recognize that from community members that are suffering and going through on-housed conditions to community members that are looking for this issue to be addressed.

And that middle ground is where the town falls, and we have an obligation to make sure that both those ends of the community are represented fairly and protected to prov have a level sense of a safe environment to be.

Outside of Tom's staff, you're gonna see some of those.

But to provide privacy for those folks that are going through these situations.

So first um we're gonna cover a lot of information.

A lot of the questions that people asked earlier today, I I almost thought to myself, boy, I wish we could start sooner because I think we would have answered many of the questions the public has about why we do certain things or how certain things are performed.

Um I'm gonna cover my role as a town health officer, why that's really important.

Um then our ordinances around all of this topic.

We have a lot of ordinances that are well established that date back years and years.

Some are new, some are not.

Um, but all of them, whether they're the cemetery ordinance or the uh the nuisance ordinance or there's a lot of them, we're gonna cite them in there.

Um, but they all really cover on detail around these issues.

I'm also going to cover the encampment approachment.

About three years ago, three and a half years ago, we came up with an encampment approachment.

Something that we could fairly um evaluate and determine whether or not an encampment was dangerous to those people, dangerous to the environment, dangerous to other community members, and how we could properly get services to those people.

So we'll cover all of that.

I'm then going to turn it over a little bit to uh Superintendent Bachico.

Um he's gonna cover um a little bit of what Becky talked about, and that is the downtown cleanup stuff.

And that does fall a little bit within our um encampment process as well, and we'll cover that and how that works.

Um, but then and lastly, we'll cover um the safety measures that we we have for our staff.

This particular picture is something that I'm very proud of.

These are a lot of the staff members that we have that are out there um every Monday and Friday dealing with all sorts of things.

And in just like many people described here today, this is not a popular thing that we are out there doing, but it is a responsibility and obligation that we have to our community to make sure that our parks, our places, our downtown, and our areas of recreation are safe for the general public.

Um close to reading that.

Uh the town of Brad, we have uh a legal and public health obligation to address conditions on public property that pose a risk to the health and safety.

Ummanaged encampments become very, very difficult and they become immediate hazards for those people around them.

Um not only for the people, it's really important that when we when we're discussing this particular topic, it is not just a dangerous atmosphere for the people that are living there, but those people that will come in contact.

Um people will use encampment areas all over town.

This happens to be a stairwell of the parking garage, oftentimes used as overnight encampment areas.

Um and you can see this is one night of an encampment area where uh waste and refuse is pretty scattered throughout.

We can't have members of the public going through these unsafe conditions.

Um this approach is not about criminalization.

This is not about somebody in a worse spot than they already are.

We recognize that, and that's where our collaboration with groundworks, with ACRS, with all of the agencies that we have in our community are so vital to the success of this.

There is no win for somebody from the town to put somebody in a more in a worse position that at the end of the day than when they started.

That's not a win for us.

Um but our our goal is to balance that compassion with responsibility.

And so while we do recognize that removing an encampment for somebody is extremely difficult for them because that is the one spot that they have for that moment, uh we also have that responsibility to protect our cemeteries to make sure that they're not being destroyed or protect our downtown or protect our parks so that children and community members can use those parks in the manner that they were designed.

Um so one of the the things that's really important with this is that I serve as the town health officer.

You guys are the board of health, and I think that sometimes needs to be reminded.

Um my authority rests with you guys.

My authority, I'm giving through state statute the authority to investigate public health concerns at all different levels.

So my job as a town health officer is to investigate the backed up septic to rat infestations to hypodermic needles and public spaces.

All of that falls within that purview of my role as a town health officer.

When I start to do things that make you guys uncomfortable, it is of your authority to say, please don't do that.

Um but outside of that, through state statute, I do have those obligations to do that.

This is just outlining that, and and part of how we've come up to where we're at now, and my role within the town, that's why you see so often the fire truck showing up to these encampments and to the downtown.

Is I'm not necessarily there as the fire department.

My role is the assistant fire chief, but is also the town health officer.

And so when I show up on my fire truck, I'm actually showing up as the town health officer in these particular situations.

Some of the ordinances that I already began to talk about.

Um chapter one, general provisions, chapter seven, solid waste, chapter A, health and sanitation, fire safety, um, chapter 13, offensive malicious provisions.

This is probably one of the more um significant ones.

I recognize that I did put um chapter 13 in the backup materials.

I have extra copies here.

I know some people have limited access to being able to gain that view from the backup materials, so there are hard copies here for people that would like them.

And chapter 13 very specifically outlines no camping on public property, defines what that camping is, um, and that it is um it is held by state statute.

You know, we have Vermont law that protects that as well.

Chapter 14, streets and sidewalks, chapter 19, cemeteries, you know, cemeteries.

The majority of the cemeteries that we have in town are owned by the town of Brattleboro.

Um, and so they we have ordinances to protect them, to protect our people that um that are buried there.

This is our encampment approachment policy.

Again, I also recognize that this is really, really small, and I'm going to go over this in detail.

But I brought many hard copies for anybody that would like it.

I'm happy to pass those around.

But they also can be found in the backup material.

And this is the encampment approachment policy that we uh we wrote about three years ago to start to identify some of these issues within within our organization.

And I'm going to go into this in a little bit more detail.

Some of our goals, and it's very clearly written in our policy, but some of our goals for doing encampment cleanups is the number one thing is people experiencing homelessness are connected with social services.

Again, you do you heard, I heard Lisa Marie discuss it earlier today.

We want to end the circle, if at all possible.

And I know this is not a perfect situation, but our first and number one goal is to get those people connected with some level of social service, if at all possible.

At times with the town of Broadover, we have you know, I show up in my truck, and that's that's an authoritative presence.

I recognize that's not always somebody in that particular situation what they need to see or the person that they want to be listening to at that moment.

Um that's where those other reconnections come in, and that's where those differences can be made.

I appreciate what Becky said because what I can say over the course of this last couple years is that a lot of lives have been touched and saved because of those connections that we've made through these encampment checks.

Um part of it is making sure that we have access to public property and our infrastructure is not impeded.

Um crime and disorder is reduced.

Uh, when we have known drug activity happening in different areas, and I'm going to show you examples of of some of the things that we have going on, we can reduce that by removing these encampments.

Um crews are safely uh able to access these critical areas.

So there may be an encampment, but if it's in a location that emergency service crews cannot get to because it's down steep embankments or it's near rivers, then um those are other areas of concern.

And we need to make sure not only are uh the people that are living in these campaigns okay, but when a medical emergency comes in or a fire, because we've had a lot of fires encampments, that our emergency crews can address it, law enforcement can address these areas.

We need to protect our waterways.

Our waterways are really important, and they're a vital part to what creates our our downtown safe and vibrant.

Um visitors to the public property to the to those areas, they also need to feel welcome.

So these are all the guiding goals, and I won't read them in in um verbatim, but you guys can see them there.

So inside the encampment, there's um essentially five different things that we look for.

So in our encampment approachment assessment, I look for signs of significant wastewater, sewage, and refuge.

If if that takes place, we'll we'll it'll start to establish a level of priority or a zone, and I'll go over those zones here in a second, and that will determine the need for the immediate removal of an encampment or a posting of an encampment, um, and that time frame that somebody had mentioned uh a public member had just discussed, you know, what is that time frame for the removal and what makes that determination?

Um but uh signs of outside burning and propane tanks, flammable materials, um, inadequate water drainage, flooding, or steep uh inaccessible terrain, evidence of substance use related to hazardous materials, or our hazardous material, sorry, um, and other hazards that pose immediate danger to to life and health.

Those are areas, those are the five areas that we look for.

Um next slide.

Once I make that determination, that an encampment is going to be removed.

Each encampment is posted.

There's only one time that we do not provide a pink notice, such as that you see here, and that is when we cover a zone one type of encampment.

But from zone two through zone four, um, we provide notice.

Now that is, I'm gonna show you another slide, but that's typically a 24 to 72 hour notice that we provide the encampment.

Um, that you can't be here, this is town property.

That you can't be here, this is town property.

Please remove all your belongings.

We give a time and date for them person to remove it.

And then I will say that in the very where it says any items not discarded, maybe uh retrieved by calling Charles Kier, town health officer.

Um previously, up to about a month ago, I would write that in Sharpie, uh, my name and phone number.

Um, and that's where um people can go to find their belongings should they be removed.

And what I will say is that I I do take this very seriously when we remove um personal property from encampments, um we do take that very seriously.

That number that you see there that's to the fire station.

Um if there's um is if there's belongings that I know that people are looking for, and I've had a connection with that person, typically the on-duty shift will make some sort of connection, or that will go to my voicemail.

Once you enter into my voicemail at the fire station, it will give you my personal cell phone or my business cell phone, I should say, and I carry that with me all the time.

So I'm very easily accessed, and that location of where your stuff is stored is always at Department of Public Works.

Um, but because that could happen on a Sunday, that could happen at 10 p.m., that could happen on a random Wednesday.

Um it's easier for me to take that phone call and then reach out to people like Mr.

Pachico or uh Director Tyler or somebody to arrange for those pickups.

Um when we first make an approach to an encampment, um the first is to touch base and establish some level of relationship with that person.

Um from there, try to get services to that person if at all possible, and then from there, if they're not willing to comply with the removal of an encampment, then it's posted.

Typically, that is when I the ideal situation is that I can do that in a face-to-face nature.

Um if that encampment, if there's nobody there, it's really hard for me to make those things, and that's when these postings get um put in place.

So personal belongings, um, personal belongings, as I said, go to public works.

Um thank you.

Items can't read that.

Definitely not uh items are held for 14 days.

Um that's that's within our uh approachment uh encampment approachment assessment policy.

Um and we do uh a really good job of of that.

What I will say is that um the town has no obligation in our town ordinances to hold on to personal belongings again.

We we we agree that we do not want to just continue this revolving circle and making life more difficult for people that are going through a homeless situation.

So removing everything that they have is not our goal.

Our goal is to remove those items that um of value.

Well, I would say is though I am not going to put the the jeopardy of town staff at risk for personal belongings, and you're gonna see some of the reasons why people our staff become highly exposed to different um communical diseases and other things when we start talking about removing personal belongings specifically from inside tents.

Am I missing anything there?

I just yeah, I I want to touch base.

So as AC has said, Chuck uh assistant chief here has said uh personal belongings are always stored at public works.

Um they are actually stored in a safe location in a dry location.

Uh they're stored in a shed here.

The minute that they're brought to public works, they are tagged.

When I mean by tagged, it's location, date, and time that it was there.

That makes sure that they are not disposed of prior to the 14 days ending.

And so they are all in there is times when there is things that stay longer than 14 days.

Um I personally have helped individuals grab some belongings from public works, sometimes at 7 o'clock at night.

Um, and that's been some work with Brat PD and things.

Um, and I know there's challenges and confusion, but the hope is uh going into FY27, we have plans to make a better process for that that hopefully will clear out some of the confusion that folks have.

And so, yes, we understand how important it is for everyone to retrieve their belongings, and we're working on that.

And hopefully next summer we'll have a better process, but can say that the process we have now is pretty fair.

So that's all I have to say for the personal belongings.

So this is this is the hot button topic.

Anytime we we talk to people about encampments, it typically comes around a couple of different issues.

It comes around to their personal belongings and the removal of tents.

Tents are expensive and they're they're very hard to come across again.

We hear from all walks here.

But the town, the town of Brad Row again, has no obligation to store hazardous material.

Items such as shopping carts, wooden structures, pallets are not considered personal property.

The townmakers reasonable faith effort to determine which items are stored and what items are disposed of.

Determination of personal belongings often puts Brad Roll staff at the highest risk for exposure.

Now I I show these particular slides because the first one obviously the very top slide sorting out personal belongings through rotting waste material, saturated with urine and feces, is not a safe option for our staff, and I will not put our staff in a position where they exposed to this level of risk.

So you look at the bottom tent, it looks pretty empty.

It's a fairly new tent.

But what you'll note is that tent is full of hypodermic needles.

And some would even say that, well, you could go in there and remove those hypodermic needles.

If you look at the red spots on the green tent, this is a tent.

This is an example of a tent that is commonly used for a drug shoot-up tent.

Um where member community will purchase their drug paraphernalia and they'll use this tent.

So this tent is saturated with blood and other human waste.

Um to remove the needles, the safest option for an uh tent like this, as with others, is to encompass the tent to enclose the tent as one unit and throw the tent in the trash without um creating any exposure to our staff.

This is another just examples of the common tent that we come across, oftentimes full of hypodermic needles, other material, and sorting through uh these are these are four different tents, um the insides of four different tents.

So sorting through those contents is very difficult, and that's where the exposure to our people happen.

Um so we tried to prevent that as all possible.

Both myself and Mr.

Superintendent Pachico will enter a tent, um, sort through those materials as best we can to find items that are personal belongings that are not destroyed or saturated andor um covered in hypodermic needles or whatever.

Um but we do look for those those things, um, and those are the items that are pulled from the tents, tagged as Superintendent Pacico said, and held for later on.

Most of the time, a tent is not saved.

I will be very open about that.

This is the nature that most tents and belongings are found.

Um the tent is clean, there are times that a tent can be saved, and we do take that time to remove that tent in a manner that doesn't destroy it.

Um oftentimes I will say when the tent is pulled from a site like this full of this, yes, it does tear.

At no point has any of our staff ever slashed or purposely destroyed a tent to just destroy it.

Um that is not the behavior that is acceptable from town staff.

So this is just uh as you read in more detail the encampment um assessment.

Uh we have four zones, and um I gave you those five different things that we look for, um, and that determines the priority for each zone and the level of danger necessarily that it poses to or risk to the public or to that person.

Zone one is the worst zone that uh we label as, and that's posted for immediate removal.

Um that is such a bad situation that is immediately dangerous to life and health.

Um it is just not appropriate for um for being there.

Then we have all the way down to zone four.

Zone four oftentimes is our downtown cleanup, much similar to that stairwell that we showed in the one of the first slides, or um those areas that a person will use for the night, leave for the day, they may come back, sleep there on some cardboard, come back, um, those type of things.

And we're gonna go over each one, but you'll notice the action, the immediate removal, 24 to 48 hours, monitor and coordinate.

You know, a zone three is a good one that well, this is not a great situation, it only has one concern.

Maybe there's drug use, maybe there's um inappropriate use of uh waste, that type of thing, and but the encampment is so large that it just takes time to coordinate for that removal.

Um, and we'll go over to what that looks like here in a second.

So this is an example of zone one.

These are the ones that most people have the largest concern about.

These are very rare.

We do not oftentimes come across one that is a zone one encampment where it's immediately removed.

This particular encampment that you see here, this is a map, the red dot represents the encampment.

Um it is a hundred feet from where we're sitting right now.

Um this encampment was full of hypodermic needles, it was full of waste, uh, it was right behind the library where children were playing.

Um this is not an example of an encampment that we are going to tolerate for the safety in the community.

Um this one was removed on November 26, 2025, right behind Memorial Library and active legal drugs, sewage waste, uh it was steep slope.

Um we probably remove uh less than five a year classify as zone one.

Um so these are very rare because even when we come across an encampment that is really bad, I don't want to just remove all of those things to have somebody come back to that location at 10 o'clock at night only to be even a worse spot.

I would rather coordinate with Becky to have those services begin to be put in place so that person is aware of what's going on.

And so there are a lot of times, again, we're talking about both sides of the people that are concerned for the immediate removal and the people that do not want the removal.

You know, we get a lot of complaints.

Well, you know this encampment's there, you're not removing it.

Why aren't you removing it?

Well, um, if we go to the next slide, those those are encampments that typically are zone two.

Um there's a lot of reasons for not that immediate removal.

And oftentimes that's because we want to try to offer as much social service as we we possibly can.

But there are bad enough, or the situation is dangerous enough that it poses a risk to the public.

Uh the middle picture is right behind the youth theater.

Um I take a great deal of pride in this particular encampment in the removal because it was extremely extremely difficult to get to.

Very grateful to our groundworks uh proof because the only way to access this, you can't see is the fence behind the New England Youth Theater is to walk up the river.

Um and this was in the drought of our summer.

Uh there was a pregnant female that was living in there that refused any um communication with public officials.

So they would not speak to me or law enforcement, but Becky to uh was able to get her services, get her help, and get her out of that situation.

Um so that was that's just one that I'm I'm fairly proud of over the course of this summer.

The one on the left, horrible picture.

I know it's small, but you can't see all the burn areas around there.

There's significant fires, very clean encampment, fairly well kept.

Um, but the entire encampment area was burned at multiple times at multiple points.

So very dangerous.

Uh and then obviously the one uh on the far right picture, uh hypodermic needles littering the ground, the area needs to be removed and cleaned up.

So typically these zone two encampments fall on town property, and that's uh the the normal process.

Zone three.

Zone three is a little bit uh more challenging.

Zone three has typically one or I'm sorry, two points of concern, sometimes one.

And these typically fall on private property.

So I hear a lot of people say, and I think my memo may even been a little bit confusing.

But if somebody has permission to be on private property from the property owner, then they need there's some other ordinances that they need to follow, and then the landowner must abide to, but in general, that's okay.

People have a right to camp.

However, you know, what we find oftentimes, especially with private properties, that property owners are unaware that these encampments are taking place on their property.

And they oftentimes take a lot of legwork.

For example, there's an encampment that we're aware of on the north end of town.

This is a very large encampment, and yes, it's been there a very, very long time.

There are very minimal risks to this encampment.

There is no uh we we commonly get out there for outreach services.

Groundworks is out there oftentimes.

There's a number of different agencies within our community that are out there regularly to to check the welfare and assist these community members as needed.

Um the the land is owned by large corporations, and getting a hold of the person that's in charge of land use with inside that organization is difficult.

It takes time.

Um I haven't been able to successfully get a hold of those those organizations yet to determine whether or not they are allowing this on their land.

Um according to the people that are in camping on this property, they're they have permission to be there.

So there's not significant hazards.

It's a well functioning atmosphere up there, is it's not horrible.

Um then next slide.

So, and this is another just some more examples of ex of zone three encampments.

Um you see the upper left picture.

That's an encampment that is on a floodplain right along the Connecticut River.

Um it takes coordination with the New England Railroad.

Um, and right now it's completely unaccessible through the snow and through means of removal.

So the coordination that it takes to clean that encampment and remove it is very, very time consuming.

Other ones that are falling in zone three, um, the center tent looks like a great tent, and there's no real issues except for um the pictures cut off a little bit, but you can see some beer cans and stuff like that.

Well, is that major?

No, but it's still an encampment that has a legal activity going on and it's on private property.

Uh the uh the fourth one, the the picture all the way to the right, um this is an encampment that's well established within our community, uh has chickens, it has it's a it's a working environment, um, but it still does not have permission from the landowner um to be on that property, and therefore it was removed.

Um and then zone four is other areas of concern that don't typically those are the overnight encampments, those are the ones that have very oftentimes have a lot of hypodermics or or minor things going on there that just need to be cleaned up.

Um and those are oftentimes handled in our downtown cleanup.

Um and for this part, um, as I said earlier, a large part so much of the effort and the manpower that goes into this is organized and done by uh Department of Public Works.

So I'm gonna turn over this downtown stuff to Superintendent Chico.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um so about two years, the town um worked on coming up with a plan of how we were going to address, and sorry, Seth, you can go to the next slide, which is really just a bunch of words, but on how we were gonna address some of these areas that had come up at concerns at both select board meetings and just emails to us.

Um and so this really all started uh kind of during the COVID-19 and with the ending of the emergency motel program.

Um the main focus of this, and you can go to the next slide, which actually is something.

The main focus of this downtown cleanup is really just to clean up debris, um pick up any hazards like sharps.

And the the greatest one is as both of them have spoke about is getting services to these individuals that are out there.

We've become on me who's new to this has now on a first name basis with some of these individuals.

Just this morning, uh down there talking with them, they know me, giving them donuts, conversation.

It's great because they're now open enough to come up to me and have those conversations.

But we also at the same time have an obligation to make sure that our public spaces are clean and open to everyone to use.

Um originally were three days a week and really have made a difference.

And so we now have them twice a week, Monday and Friday.

Um they start at 7:30.

Uh there are collaboration with uh the health officer, Bright Road Police Department, um, DPW, and usually ground or groundworks is with us as well.

Uh we focus on the downtown district when uh that means any public space, parking lot, park, walk path, or an area that I actually see when I do uh routine every morning at 5:30.

I come to downtown Bratterboro, I'm making a trip through and seeing if there's any errors of concern.

And so every Monday and Friday we really take our time to go around recently in the winter time, uh, especially with these cold mornings, it's actually more transitioned to a checking in.

We know these individuals are trying to stay warm, and we've actually been able to get medical attention to some that need it, and we're the first ones there.

I mean, there's not a lot of people up at 6:30, 7:30 in the morning, and so um really that's been the the best part for me is really getting a close connection with some of these folks and helping them when we can.

Um can I just talk on this slide?

Yeah, um, this slide is really another slide that's really important to me too.

Um, in reference to the downtown cleanup stuff and the connections that we made.

Uh, this particular for many, you drive by this this particular photo and see a pile of rags or debris in the corner of uh a business.

Uh there's an end of there's a human being underneath that pile of rags and cloth.

Um is negative 10 degrees outside.

So when we talk about doing our downtown cleanup, and some of the things that uh Superintendent Pacico just discussed, is also we are truly checking on our on our community members and making sure that they are okay.

Uh next slide.

And so just like they have both said as well, we've worked with non-profit organizations and other organizations that help with this work that we've been doing.

Um we work with groundworks, uh, we've done uh the AIDS project has come and helped pick up sharks with us on some of these morning cleanups.

Uh Vermont Agency uh VTrans has been there, and so we're collaborating on all elements here to try to help this difficult situation and you know be fair to one side of the room and also to the other.

So the other thing we do is uh biweekly meetings every Wednesday, a group of administrative uh folks for the town uh meet via Zoom.

Uh we have conversations about uh areas or concerns we have, folks or folks that we are trying to connect with services, and that's also the same time as when, and if an encampment has come up to AC during the week, that's when we have discussion about how we're going to tackle those steps moving forward, and that's when we create a plan.

In the same group that does the morning cleanups Monday and Friday, we normally will do an encampment cleanup directly after downtown cleanup, either Monday or Friday, or address it immediately if it needs to be during the week.

Next slide.

One of the biggest things AC has said, uh same with myself, is this isn't enjoyable for any of us to go do.

We don't get enjoyment in doing this, but we know how important it is.

Um the employees themselves are putting themselves at risk in going in some of these areas, climbing down embankments to to clean up the town, really.

And so really we take, you know, we make sure that staff that do this first of all, it it's not mandatory.

We have conversations with our staff that do it.

Um and we make sure that they know what they're getting, what the type of work is and that what they'll be putting themselves at risk of.

And if they do not feel comfortable doing it, um we're okay with that.

And so the folks that do do the work, we make sure they have the pop proper training and proper PPE and really understand protocols and our policies at the town when they do this work.

But these guys come in here with a smile on their face, walking into these encampments, being polite to the individuals that are there, moving their personal belongings for them to areas that they need, doing it with a smile on their face, and at the same time, on the other hand, picking up uh two to three hundred needles and stuff that's covered in feces.

And so employee safety and dedication is one of the biggest things for us folks here, and and I I I personally applaud the crew that goes out there every day.

And I know it's getting late, so we want to wrap this up.

I'm sure there's some questions.

So um thank you for listening to our presentation, and uh I'm sure we'll take questions at this time.

Thank you, the three of you very much.

Um let's start with the select board.

Um Isaac, do you have questions?

Gosh, it just is so appreciative of the information that you all have shared and um of the balancing of so many needs.

Um appreciate your work that you do for town health and safety and cleanliness.

Um and I was I was also pleased to see um that you did to hear that you've made some tweaks like printing the phone number um on those slips and hearing about more process improvements to come.

And you know, I'll be I'd be interested if if if you are prepared to talk at all about what those improvements are that you have in mind or what you want to work on, um I I'd be interested, but if it's also I I don't want to put you on the spot if you're still working through that internally.

Uh I mean we're every time we have our bi-weekly meetings with the administration, we're looking at how we can do better.

Um the the one I can personally speak to is personal belongings.

It's been brought up by folks, by uh whoever, that the process of collecting personal belongings has been challenging.

And so um we're actually looking at some have said that it's challenging for us to separate belongings from certain tent areas, and so we're trying to find a process where it can all be stored in an area that won't get thrown away immediately, like if it's got safety concerns, needles, you know.

And so we're we're trying to find a way that it can all just go to an area, everything that's picked up, stayed in an area for 14 days.

If an individual stuff has been taken, they would have to coordinate still with the health officer, public works, but we trying to store everything there and not throw anything away and give someone the opportunity to come and find what they need because right now we're trying to separate.

That's the most difficult part of this process is trying to separate things that are covered in needles and feces.

And so if we can just take everything, put it in one location, store all everything from that site for 14 days, and then if an individual is looking for their stuff, it's all in this one location in this one covered area.

That's hopefully do you understand what I'm saying there?

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, thank you.

I and I I imagine that you'll in this process you'll have conversations with you're talking with groundworks all the time, or maybe 69A folks, you know, just to be able to get that feedback on the promoting the plans and when you try things out, you know, how it's working for folks.

I'm glad to hear about the relationship building that you're y'all are doing as well, the folks on the street.

So thank you.

Peter, do you have any comments?

Not this time.

Oscar.

Sure, thank you.

Uh seconds, great presentation.

Thank you guys.

That was really helpful, and I think even just hearing it spelled out like that will be helpful and um comforting to a lot of people.

So I really appreciate that.

I mean, we're we're in a tough spot.

Government is really all about the letter of the law in a lot of ways.

And um I think from what you said and conversations we've had, we all get how disruptive it is for people.

And yet, you know, if we get a complaint or if there's a safety risk, we have things that we have to do.

And I I have to say, I my feeling is that you guys are handling that balance about as well as you can.

So I'm really appreciative of that.

The the one thing I'll say sort of unofficially, knowing that it can't ever really be turned into a policy, is that my hope would be that if there's a zone three encampment on public property and nobody's complained that we wouldn't go out of our way to interact with that encampment because we know that when people are moved from one encampment, they're just gonna go somewhere else.

So just a personal thought that I'm speaking aloud.

And then I think the real outlet for this stuff, and the is what we talked about before is that there's no solution.

If there's no encampment on public land that's really legal, and there's also nowhere for people to go.

So what we've talked about tonight, thinking about those solutions for storage and bathrooms and camping, and they're all difficult.

Some are more difficult than others, but I think we should keep talking about that stuff.

And then as far as the policy goes, I have no problems with it.

It's already the unofficial or it is already the policy of the town.

Nobody's made a motion yet, so there's nothing to table.

But uh personally, my feeling is I'd like to, you know, reread it, chew on it, come back to it.

I don't think there's any urgency to codify it, and I'm interested in what now that this has been a public convers conversation, members of the public will say, ACLU, et cetera.

So my mild feeling is um stick a pin in it, think about it, and come back to it.

Thank you.

Shall I make the motion so we can have that conversation?

All right.

I will uh like the motion that we formally adopt the town's encampment response approach as presented by the town health officer as a town as official town policy.

And as speaker, yeah, not to the motion, but in general.

You want to speak first?

Go for it.

Pardon me.

Can I then speak?

Of course, let Peter speak to the motion, and then you can have general comments as well I.

Um, I guess there's sort of two of me sitting up here, right?

There's there's the person that that got elected to make town policy and make decisions that were good for the town, for the betterment of the town, that keep the town safe, that keep the town secure, that high find revenue for the town, right?

And that's that's sort of my job here as I sit on this side of the table.

When I'm on that side of the table, um more in the private sector where I feel things move a lot quicker, uh I am more concerned about where people get to store their stuff if they have no place to store their stuff.

Um I am more concerned that our DPW and and our fire department and our EMS have to uh rouse people up on uh on a night that is um negative 10 to um you know quite possibly save their lives and get them to a better situation.

Um I don't pretend to understand every situation that is out there.

Um I am I am saddened by it.

I I wish I had the the solution.

I've spent many years just doing the things that I could do to help improve and hold up the work that the the true nonprofits in this area do each and every day uh with feeding, housing, homeless, homelessness, and trying to get people the services that they need so that they can better their lives.

So when I make a motion like this, I I believe it's the right it's the right thing for the town.

Um and if I'm sitting on that side of the table, I too believe it's the right thing for the town.

But off I'm on that side of the table, I really do want to work as part of a community to help resolve these problems.

I don't know that this board can resolve these problems.

This board maybe can help and permission a few things that might make it easier to solve a problem, but I don't think it's as a municipality our business to solve them.

I think it is it is in our best interest to help with the process.

I just don't know how we solve them.

So when I make this motion, like I say, I I I make it as a as a select board member that is looking to keep the town on the steady on the straight and narrow, but I also make it as a citizen that is looking for answers and some resolve around a very difficult, highly charged situation that seems to be getting worse by the day, and I am as deeply frustrated by it as as I can.

And you know, I'm I'm also if I can go off script a little bit here the the whole 69A thing to me um was misguided good in that I think it strived to be this living room project but just never hit the mark.

So I just I just want to say that as well that I I think that more services are needed, um, but I don't think as a select as a select board member it is it is my responsibility to provide those services, but as a citizen, maybe it is.

Thank you, Peter.

Amanda?

Oh, thank you.

Um first of all, I just want to say thank you.

I want to say thank you for your flexibility, your out-of-the-box thinking, your resilience, and your perseverance, because the work that you're doing is really really challenging.

It's very emotionally stirring.

So hopefully don't cry.

Um this is a very concrete question.

Are there resources for a municipality to apply for grants to help financially support the work that you're doing to address, not just address homelessness in the community as a social service agency, but as a municipality.

So this is a really narrow way of thinking, but like fiscal responsibility-wise, it's like cost, I think cost, which is probably lame.

But this all costs a lot of money, it costs a lot of human time, it costs a lot of emotional time, but it also how do we continue to finance all of the work that's going into this project?

And are there state resources, are there other resources that we can apply for support to continue the work in collaboration?

But um that so there's that piece of it.

The other thing is um uh in terms of voting on this motion, I heard loud and clear the ACLU statement, and it makes me very nervous.

And so I am not ready to pass this at this point.

If their advice is more workshopping, if that would be in our best interest as a town and protection of the town, um, then I'd say let's take a little time to not do it tonight.

So that's my point.

Alrighty.

Um I wanted to thank the three of you.

Um what I heard was a well-thought out policy of compassion and practicality and public health, and of a of a team that works together well consistently, and um the collaboration is really essential, and what I know from how our public safety team and one Brattleboro works is that it works because of the collaboration, and so I applaud all of you and all of one Brattleboro, really, and the situation table and Project Care and all the partners for putting your heads together to find practical solutions, and I see what um you know what Brattleborough has to contend with, and um what we have now, we have right now in the motel program, um78 rooms, 74 households, 99 adults, and 57 children.

And then we have how many people, Becky at at the shelter, about 40, and then we have um Morning Side being built, and we have the shelter at Winston Prowty, and we have the beloved shelter.

And we have the beloved shelter.

Am I missing anything?

I think so.

Okay.

So I really believe that Brattleboro is a compassionate town.

And working very hard to meet the needs with dignity, as you said, of all of the homeless.

And that includes the people in the encampments.

And I heard every effort being made to address the needs of the people in the encampment with compassion and dignity.

Now there's a public there's public health issues, there's people at risk, there's there's staff time.

But what is also getting to Amanda's question, are there grants?

Let's keep in mind that we have asked our legislators to advocate on our behalf to the state because the motel program is costing our town probably over a million dollars of staff time.

And the homeless in these encampments and on our street that you all address so admirably, that's that's your time.

That's an expense that our taxpayers bear.

And what we've said to the legislators over and over again is we need revenue sharing because is this a municipal problem that we're dealing with to a certain extent it is.

But if you look at the big picture, as people have brought up this evening, this is the responsibility of the state of Vermont.

And the fact that our community has over the decades moved from poor houses to the current system, it is a state responsibility, and it's my job that we've talked about in our retreat to continue to tell this the state to tell our legislators what our situation on the ground is so that they can help us help everyone.

So going forward, not only do I commend you for the policy that you worked together to formulate uh, but I also want to go beyond that to find to find our more help for our little town, and um I have no interest in changing the policy.

Um I will say that at our retreat, at our select board retreat, we talked about this issue, and we talked about the state law, which is kind of peculiar, because it talks about you know you can't you can't camp on state property, and you can't camp on town property, but you can with permission camp on private property.

So that says to me, and what we discussed in our retreat is encouraging members of the public.

If you know, if if they feel strongly about addressing the situation, you know, they they can, and as you said, Chuck, they are to a certain extent doing that.

So when people get up and they say, where can we go?

That's your answer.

You know, I mean, the system that exists now is very compassionate and dignified and so forth, and I commend you all for it, and I have no intention of tabling this for some other time when we can talk about it all again, because this has been an extremely thorough discussion, and we have yet to hear from the public even more about this extremely thorough discussion.

But then I think you know, we should come back and talk about whether we want to have this vote now.

So is there a sign-up sheet for this round of presentations?

Madam Chair, could we have a little more discussion?

I would prefer a little more discussion on the select board before public comment.

If just so that we we've all kind of provided statements, but I don't feel that we've actually had a public discussion about it.

So I appreciate.

And with a commitment to collaborating with the person from the ACLU who addressed us with our town you know, council with input from the community and our and our partners and our and our town staff to continue to work on it.

So I think there's somewhere in the middle we can reach.

Let's let's ask John and then Bob.

Yeah, um Amanda, one thing that uh really struck me with their presentation was how this whole program ha has continuous improvement built right into it, and these systematic uh meetings that they have to continuously make this a better uh program and taking feedback through groundworks, through community members and others to find ways to make it better and better.

I think that's like inherent to their approach.

So I I really appreciate the offer from the ACLU and from Jenna Seymour and others if they want to help with this.

I mean, I think uh we would love to have more people come help on the cleanups, uh, do do other things.

I mean, I think that all can be incorporated continuously into this program and uh and I I really I really am grateful to this team.

There I I can't think of better people doing this very difficult work than we have right here with us tonight.

So thank you for speaking to that.

That was really helpful.

Can we um Bob, can we ask um if you'd like to comment on the legality of this program?

Sure.

And and I think the first thing I would note is if you adopt a policy, you can always amend that policy at any time.

So it's a policy, it's not at this point an ordinance.

So you're not going through the whole ordinance uh procedure, you're adopting a policy that in large part is in.

The ACLU in uh with regard to other cases that they've had against other cities or municipalities in Vermont found those other cities or municipalities at fault because those cities or towns did not uh provide reasons, did not give an opportunity uh to for outreach or removal, uh, didn't uh provide for things such as the opportunity to retrieve uh personal property.

So when we look at what the policy that uh has been suggested tonight and has been the policy being followed, uh the town of Brattleboro emphasizes, as is in the backup material, the notice, the property protection, the humane treatment, uh you're looking at outreach to the person, you've got welfare checks, you've got notice to them before enforcement.

Uh there's a whole other level here of enforcement of of criminal laws, let alone the uh the town ordinances.

And uh so with that uh from my perspective, the policy, I'm quite comfortable that the town is already doing what the ACLU is suggesting.

Now, might the ACLU have some additional suggestions?

That's great.

If they do, let's come back and uh amend the policy and go from there.

But uh I I think as far as the notice, the due process, protection of property, not criminalizing the status of of being homeless, those things are being met by uh this policy.

Thank you, Bob.

Oscar, did you want to comment?

Yeah.

Um I mean, what about a friendly amendment to approve it and to reach out to the ACLU for comment or something like that.

Is that I'm gonna defer down the Peter made the motion.

Oh, I'm uh I'm asking if that's the sort of thing that you're interested in.

After the commentary I just heard, I hear I I trust the process.

Uh John's John's comments were uh very clear.

Um Bob's comments were very clear that this is an open it's because it's policy, it's not an ordinance, it's a different process.

It continue to be tweaked using existing structures we have, like one Brattleboro and commun communications like this within the room.

So uh I trust that stated process.

Cool.

Isaac?

Yeah, so I actually came this evening thinking this looks good to me.

Um I think it's important to have a clear policy and protocol and something to be able to to that the you know we agree on this and now we have something to hold ourselves to and we can address if there is a deviation from this or concern, we can see well is this in the policy or not.

So I actually think that we should have a policy, and this doesn't look bad to me.

That said, I'm not on I'm not an attorney.

Um and I received a phone or uh communication right before the meeting.

It's actually walking over here and talking to the chair of the planning commission who had reached out to me right before the meeting with a cons uh a concern about something in this policy.

Um le a legality and a small technicality.

It was right before the meeting, and I didn't have a chance to get all of the information, but I'd like to be able to hear what that concern is, as well as the concerns from the ACLU Vermont.

And if it's if our policies in line if this draft policy is in line with what they are recommending, great.

But if there's a different uh difference, I think we need to be able to take all of the feedback, you know, all perspectives into account.

Now, one of the things I've really appreciated about the conversation tonight is that we've heard from multiple perspectives.

And that's how we make better decisions is when we can hear from different people who are doing the work, who are experiencing the impact of the work.

That's the kind of and that helps us make better decisions.

And for how long has the town basically had this um this approach, this documented written approach?

About three years.

About three years.

And so I don't when I when I had suggested, it wasn't me who got this on the agenda.

It was uh the board decided to put this on the agenda for tonight.

But when I suggested and asked and proposed that we put this on the agenda, I wasn't I was familiar with this documented approach, but I wasn't actually asking for a decision to be made tonight.

Um that that's a and and I really don't think that we have to re-have another two-hour discussion in order to review some feedback from the ACLU of Vermont.

I think it only could strengthen it.

And before we formally adopt something, which is the which is the motion to formally adopt this approach, you know, I'd like I'd like some more information.

So I actually and I also think there's a number of people who brought up the question of well, what about designated camping?

You know, where could that is that something we want to explore further?

And um, you know, and I heard Liz, you say that state law doesn't says that people aren't allowed to camp on municipal property.

But that's I'd like some I'd like some clarity from that, legal clarification, but I don't want to talk about it tonight.

We have to get to the budget.

So I'm uh curious, Amanda, if you you know, based on the concerns you had if you are open to making a motion um to table this.

Um Peters made a motion.

Yeah, I well I don't think a tabling is necessary.

I think what's happened in the room tonight, what we've heard from our town manager, what we've heard from our town council, which we what we heard from um the gracious person from the ACLU who presented is that we uh actually have opened the door to further conversations that we can tweak it, can be amended.

It is a big body of work, like you said, we have other things to do tonight.

Yeah.

Um and so it would be great to be warned for a future meeting uh to revisit and and move on from there.

That that's my take.

Have a vote and move on.

And I think we could even have a break before we move on.

So let's start with Gemma.

Hi.

Again, Gemma Seymour, uh representative of Town Meeting District 8 and member of the Brattleboro Planning Commission.

I just want to say that one of the things that has been really striking to me in this conversation and others recently is that the con these conversations surrounding so many of the issues in our town are all too often reminding me of that famous quote by Jeff Goldblum's character in the movie Jurassic Park.

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

I think it's really disappointing and frustrating to have to listen to town officials talk about and justify their authority to take certain actions when what is actually at issue is whether or not they should take those actions.

Authority has nothing at all to do with it.

Whether that's the issue of enacting zoning regulations or clearing out encampments of unhoused people that are deemed to be a hazard or a violation.

We know that the town has the authority to do this.

The Supreme Court of the United States ruled unequivocally in City of Grant pass Oregon v.

Johnson that towns have the authority to prohibit camping on public lands.

However, I would like to point out that contrary to what Madam Chairwoman said earlier.

Being that as it may, I think this town really needs should consider whether or not Article 7, section 13300, should actually classify this as a criminal ordinance or whether it should be a civil offense.

But I, as a citizen, cannot really see any value in making this a criminal offense as opposed to a civil offense.

Thank you.

Um Jane Coggleton.

Hello, I'm Jane and from Brattleboro.

I have a lot of questions.

Um and not a lot of time.

Where do people go?

Um literally I'm wondering, are people present often when these encampment sweeps happen?

Do they get handed a piece of paper?

Um do they get swept?

Is it easier when people are gone when they're found to be swept then um or I hear that there's like visits and then the note is left and then they come back?

Um like some of these are clarifying questions, some of these are just concerns.

Um I really want to be looking at what how many stories are there of these sweeps leading to people like finding permanent housing.

Are people being insured that they found stability after and in the moment at 7:30 in the morning or at 10 p.m.

or whatever, like clarifying um do these cleanups happen at night too?

Because there is mention of like people being asked to leave in the middle of the night or in the darkness.

Um, where do their bodies go those nights?

In the morning, do they and I really want to be key with like who is actually helping these people after they get moved.

Is it 69A is a question?

Yes or no, because a lot of people are ending up, I kind of think of spaces like 69A full of people doing unpaid labor, catching a lot of people who come in and they're like, oh, I like I have a question about a basic thing.

I have a phone, I need a phone to call for my stuff.

I also wanted to clarify the process of the phone number that I wrote down that so someone sees a piece of paper, they come, their stuff is gone, they see a piece of paper.

They come, their stuff is gone.

They see a piece of paper.

Uh the piece of paper has a phone number written on it.

I'm not sure if it was said it was written in Sharpie.

Um the people call the number, they get a voicemail.

The voicemail includes a personal line to call.

The person calls that number, they reach um, I'm sorry, I forgot your name.

One of the people on this team of the health team.

Um, you call a colleague to connect with that human who didn't have maybe doesn't have a phone who lost all their stuff.

How does that colleague find that person and follow up to arrange a pickup?

Um how do we ensure that I have a lot more questions?

Do you were there consent for getting photos of these people's uh homes and belongings?

Um I don't public problem.

I maybe have one more.

I I mean I have so many more questions.

Um I'm really I'm really disturbed by like seeing people's personal property on display in this way.

Um is that okay with you all that like someone chain your time stuff and and is using it to sensationalize a non-emergency.

Thank you.

Jane, we're gonna talk about this isn't the last conversation that has that's gonna happen.

Well, the other thing too, though, I would recommend um because a thorough presentation, I would recommend that Jane speak to Chuck later.

Answer all those questions because many of them have been touched on.

Um, still Ivan Hennessy, still Bradleboro.

Um early on in the presentation, um our town health officer mentioned that uh these are not criminal charges, there's nothing criminal um no criminal proceeding or anything with it, which in terms of you know not holding the threat of of prison over people, not putting uh a bunch of stigmatism on their actions and stuff is great.

But it kind of reflects the power imbalance that's that's on here.

It's great from the town's point of view to be like offering this largest that there's no criminal proceeding, but the fundamental result is still someone's stuff is taken and destroyed.

Um then because it's not criminal, there's no due process associated with that.

There's no um appeal process.

There's nothing formal, it's just laid at your feet to make these decisions about people's stuff.

Um the end result is that they're still being punished for being poor and h homeless by having their stuff taken away and destroyed.

Um it's just a difficulty with with points of view where it makes perfect sense from the point of view of the town and the people carrying the policy out.

But it's still having a huge negative impact regardless of the technical detail of whether it's criminal or not.

I think we heard a very thorough presentation of the the length that both the public works and the health department go to salvage people's belongings where possible.

And um I you know you can have a conversation with them further if you like, but I think we've heard enough testimony about that.

Um Dick Degray.

My wife told me not to wear that hat if I got up to speak.

Oh Dick de Grey District 8.

Uh I've heard some numbers thrown around, but can you give me the hard number on what it has cost the town for the cleanup?

And uh I know that you have police escort you.

You didn't mention them in the group of people when you were talking about it.

These questions are for the board.

I was just talking at them.

You can answer the question.

Uh so I'm looking for the hard number of what it has cost the town.

We should have that.

I heard somebody say a million dollars.

I heard somebody say a lot of money.

I'd like to know what that number is.

I know that we have numbers for the cleanup in the solid waste budget where I don't believe that they belong.

I believe they they belong.

If it's going to be uh public works, that's where that money should be, and not in the waste uh the waste budget that's uh being proposed.

Uh I'd also like to know my answer since I believe these are the this is the public about the bathroom question that I asked before about public bathrooms, because that is one of the issues that's been talked about for many years uh and has really never gone anywhere about having a public bathroom.

And so if you would answer that question, the other question I have for uh Chuck and Mr.

Pacico is uh do they encounter people when they go to make a cleanup that want that are there and want to take some of their belongings with them, even though they are considered hazardous.

Do you allow them to take that material with them?

Uh so if you could answer that.

And uh I have a deep appreciation for the people that do this.

Can imagine putting on the job description that you have to clean up feces uh as a public works employee or uh somebody who works in the fire department, how many people are going to be applying for the job.

So I do appreciate things that uh our employees do that aren't on the job description that they don't get credit for, and they do it every day.

So I thank them for their service, and I do mean that because they know it and I tell them all the time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um, Dick, I I witnessed a cleanup myself.

Uh the select board was invited one Friday morning and I attended.

And um it is incredibly difficult work and groundwork was there, and uh everybody was very professional and uh it was it was really an example of our town employees doing the hardest work that they can on our behalf.

Yes, Jeff?

Madam Chair, uh, and I appreciate Mr.

Grey bringing it up, and I'm almost embarrassed that I didn't mention it.

Um but law enforcement does play a uh instrumental part in this process.

Um they are there on every encampment cleanup, they are there um on every downtown cleanup um to protect us and to they they have a tremendous community network and relationships that we build upon.

So we utilize our brat team, we utilize that um police department on every single one.

And and without them that we would not be successful.

So I forget uh I apologize for not mentioning the people that support us.

Great.

And let me ask John to answer any other questions.

Well, um so the restrooms uh I think the library put together uh resource guide a year to year or year and a half ago, and there were something like 24 publicly accessible bathrooms in the downtown.

I don't recall the exact number, it's something in the 20s.

Um we are adding an additional one at the uh new substation at the transportation center, and also understand that there are some publicly accessible bathrooms now, also at um 69A's uh property.

So I think they're that uh well by no means can we have a bathroom pop up for everyone who needs it right at that moment where they are.

I I I don't think that's possible, but I think we have done a lot in that area, and there are quite a number of accessible areas in town.

It just means that sometimes someone might have to get from one end of the downtown to another to use it.

Um that I don't know that we can solve it in every block.

So cost.

The cost.

Um, I can help if you're the cleanup costs, yes.

Um do you, Darren, do you have a sense of that for So this is another thing that we're working on.

This is the challenging part um of hopefully creating a new way that we're tracking this type of work in 2027, because currently I can tell you what we've actually have removed of like things that were brought right to Triple T.

Um I could give you a number.

I don't have that right now.

I can tell you it's over six tons of trash that we removed just from the downtown area.

Um but the hope is with this new policy that by us putting it all into one containment, because there's times when we bring stuff to DPW that's stored when it's not retrieved by anyone, that is going into DPW's dumpster that is being taken out of the general fund.

And so it's challenging because that's being mixed in with trash coming from the facility itself.

And so the hope is going into FY27, this new procedure happens which we can really focus on calculating the cost just for what we're removing.

And so we're we're working on that.

So, Darren, those are the cost that's the waste cost.

But I think the broader question is staff time.

Yep, and that will be and that's you know, your your department, fire department, police department, you know.

Becky's on our own.

I hope everyone contributes to groundworks.

And that's included.

It's sorry, it we're looking in FY27, going into that by tracking everything, so we really can give you a good answer on what costs.

Thank you very much.

Uh Heidi Fisher.

Can I ask one quick question?

Sure.

Chuck, I assume the answer is yes, that if you're cleaning up my encampment and I'm there and I want to take stuff away, that would be fine.

Yeah.

100% it's their belongings.

Okay, and just to clarify, Dick, the two exterior 24-hour bathrooms at the substation were removed from the plan.

So that was the change there.

Heidi, please.

Heidi Fisher, District 7.

Um I have a quick question, and it I don't want people to think it's coming from naivety, because I know it's a very complicated, nuanced question.

Well, the answer would be very complicated and nuanced.

But one of the things I've noticed that hasn't been part of the conversation tonight is accountability of of the people whose belongings it is and whose encampments they are, and that there hasn't been just any discussion of their involvement of cleaning up the place.

And I I know that that's complicated and who folks are, or if they're not there, they're not identifiable.

I mean, I realize there's levels of things, but I just want to throw out there that there's been no mention of that whatsoever tonight, and I think it's a missing piece of the puzzle.

Thank you, Heidi.

Becky, would you like to address how um uh people from encampments are brought to social services and what their needs and accountability might be?

Can you discuss that at all?

In terms of the encampment and their personal property or their needs around when they asked them at the um Heidi's question went to their needs and and and personal property, but I think the greater question is when people get received what they need in terms of social services.

Are they also having an understanding of accountability in society?

I think that the part that we play in this really is the basic needs in the moment.

Um the accountability part um is not a sprint, that is a marathon, and something that we find comes with years of sometimes relationship building um with each client.

Um I can talk about an example um of somebody that um we went to an encampment um with this team.

I went with Harold, who's part of our outreach team.

Um, and because Harold had a relationship with this individual when we um knocked on his shelter, he was pleasantly surprised to see a familiar face.

Um we were there with the Bratt team, um, specifically Justin Johnston, who was able to give him a ride up to groundworks.

Um he at that moment um wanted treatment.

Um we worked with other community partners and we got him a ride up to an open bed in a treatment facility within four hours.

Um part of that was that he was ready in the moment, um, but it was years of relationship building um through human service that at the time he was ready, and without the collaboration um of all the community partners we worked with, it we would not have been able to have given him that opportunity and offered him that service.

Um he is also interconnected um with a team now that will be able to work with him afterwards and has already started the process of housing applications um in order to um help get him more permanent um housing and stability.

Um but it was years of relationship building um through human service um that at the time he was ready and without the collaboration um of all the community partners we worked with it we would not have been able to have given him that opportunity and offered him that service um he is also interconnected um with a team now that will be able to work with him afterwards um and has already started the process of housing applications um in order to um help get him more permanent um housing and stability that's great thank you madam chairs can I add one more thing I I kind of took the question a little differently um and so I I will give an example of what we an individual we dealt with all summer um he re we we came on our morning cleanups we would cross paths with this individual he was clean he took care of the place there wasn't trash thrown all over the ground he understood it was good morning every time we saw them he respected the property he was on there was no problem we did not talk to him it was a good morning walk by and so when an individual does respect a public space that they're on and we have no concern of that area we move what there's no concern from us and so that's kind of how I took that question and maybe it's great I was wrong wonderful thank you uh Jessica you're our last commenter clicking all the buttons sorry can you hear me great so thanks for letting me speak again um I just wanted to reiterate what I had said before which was a clear ask to table the motion for a reasonable period of time so we can provide you with additional feedback and just a note on some of the prior cases that we settled to the best of my knowledge in none of those towns was it a situation where where there was no place where a person with this authorized to be able to go and the reality right now and I think everybody this is why I want to be able to come back and and do a presentation to be able to give more time to do this review.

The data clearly shows we are out of shelter space not everybody is able to get into the GA emergency housing program.

There might be some anecdotes of a person who is able to get services right away but that is rare.

I also did want to just circle over to grants pass.

So one of the things that the Supreme Court said in grants pass even though the plaintiffs were not successful on that eighth amendment claim that they were making was that there is the possibility that folks would have other protections under state law or state constitutions and grants pass ended up getting sued under state law in Oregon and as a result of the settlement that was reached now there are there's protected space for people experiencing homelessness to be able to camp and there are bathrooms etc.

So I do encourage you to table this so that we have an opportunity to provide more feedback Madam Chair yes just in recognition of the guidance from the ACL or the request from the ACLU of Vermont and the desire to protect town of Brattleboro and to be able to have all the information we need to adopt a policy I'd like to make a motion to table this motion.

Bob would you remind us what the rules on tabling area my recollection of Robert's rules is when there's a motion to table it's not debatable and it's a majority vote.

So we have the motion to table first and then the original motion?

Right you it it's a you have to take up the motion to table first there's no discussion on that it's non-debatable and you vote on that first.

If if it fails if it passes you've tabled it and then you would pick it up from the table at a future meeting which is different from postponing to a uh an a definite date which we had that issue last time uh but if it fails then you would go on to the motion that's been made.

Okay great thank you very much.

All right Isaac has made a motion to table the motion um all select board members in favor of tabling this motion please raise your hand and say aye.

Aye all right all those members not in favor of tabling the motion please raise your hand and say nay.

All right that passes three to two yes uh I would like further guidance on what the board would like us to do between now and guidance on what the ACL is going to bring here that's gonna ACL the would you like a motion for that or just discussion.

Just direction I think so I um I would love to warn I would like to warn this discussion for a future meeting um after or coinciding with feedback from the ACLU and um the planning commission and um and also you know I had suggested to 69A said hey give us a where should where could trash receptacles be you know what are just to start the c keep the conversation going and move it for a future meeting.

And also, you know, I had suggested to 69A, I said, hey, give us a where should trap where could trash receptacles be.

You know, what are just to start the c keep the conversation going and move it for a future meeting?

Oscar.

Hopefully it's not as long.

We don't do anything.

Certainly.

Um, my my feeling is I mean, we haven't voted on the motion.

We've tabled it.

We haven't rejected it.

It's the town's policy.

It continues to be in place.

All that happened is we did not vote on a motion to whatever officially confirm.

So I wouldn't think that any change would occur between now and this motion passing at a later date, is my read on sort of looking generally over it, Bob and Hannah, but there's nothing in tabling this motion that rejects this policy or anything like that.

But with respect to like I I'm not clear what you need in order to make a decision on the motion that was on the table.

I mean what is the information that you're looking for that would allow us to move forward on this issue.

Can I get something off my chest?

Go right ahead.

So we've tabled a motion that we've just spent two and a half hours discussing.

Do we suspect that we're not going to spend another two and a half hours relitigating this thing, right?

Because of some veiled threat from the ACLU, right?

They're gonna come in, they're gonna sue us?

I don't think so.

All right.

This this town is is like right up to their eyeballs with compassion and the way we deal with things.

These uh I'm hearing a majority of us saying we don't have a problem with this, but we just want to keep talking about it.

That's all I'm hearing.

We just want to keep talking about it, keep kicking the can down the road.

That's not really my policy.

I have no problem with this.

Every single one of us has said they didn't have a problem with this policy.

That's right.

So what is there to discuss?

Because we had a three-hour period of public comments and heard a lot of interesting things, and the policy is already in effect, and I'd like to, you know, get some follow-up on those things before we confirm something that's already in place.

And I will also say that the agenda item was a discussion with an optional motion.

The goal of this was not specifically to pass this motion.

And I think maybe it was an hour long, longer, but this was actually a really great conversation.

I'm glad we had it.

And I think uh it it wasn't time wasted.

So I get it, and if we had voted no to table, I then would have voted yes on the policy.

I just if it's three hours again next time, I will be very sad, but I don't think it's gonna be.

Uh John asked for guidance.

The motion to table has passed.

So it's been tabled as far as before you move on to your next agenda.

That's up to the chair.

Uh in terms of moving on to the next agenda item.

And I respect uh John, the town manager's request for more information.

And John, have you received guidance from the I got vague direction to get feedback from the ACLU, bring that back to you and then we and then you will be ready to consider this.

I think it's pretty clear what I'm hearing.

Were there any other I mean that was the main thing?

Okay.

That's the one thing that concerns me.

Um makes me nervous for the town of Brattle, bro.

So and Amanda also mentioned the planning commission feedback.

That the planning commission, some feedback from the planning commission could be helpful.

Um because Tom Ozikowski had a question.

Well, um the other thing I'm just gonna anecdotally say something.

Why not?

It's getting late.

It's gonna be a late meeting.

This term unpaid labor was referred to many times.

I call that volunteerism, and I believe in volunteerism, and I think it's okay.

I think um stating that that someone is providing unpaid labor.

It's just it it as a laborer myself, like as a l as we are a room of laborers and volunteers.

Can we just call it volunteerism?

We choose to do it, you know, because we love what we do, we love the people we work with.

It's important.

So thank you.

Okay.

That's very uh let's take a break for five whole minutes.

Um let's talk about our schedule and the lateness of the evening.

Um it's been recommended to me that we not continue our budget discussion this evening, and that we have a separate meeting to do that, but that we do continue with the reconsideration of the trash bag motion and the consent agenda agenda item that was pulled.

Well I sort of the trash bag things sort of make sense to me after the budget thing.

So just the thought of pushing both of those to the next meeting and just discuss the H B A C Yeah, just my thought.

What do you think, Amanda?

I think that's a great idea.

I I appreciate you bringing that up so much.

How about the gentleman to my left?

Um I I'm I'm sorry, I'm tired, and I would love to come back to these questions when with fresh mind.

So I think discussing the HVAC.

We have to discuss the HVAC.

Peter.

Yeah.

So the next question is when.

Right.

Uh are we available next on Thursday?

I am available on Thursday.

Are you available next Tuesday?

Can you make yourself available next Tuesday?

That's a better question, though, isn't it?

Gotta make myself available.

Um I can probably sort it out for the good of the town.

Excellent.

How about yes, please?

I would love to be here next Tuesday.

All right.

Tuesday the 13th.

Tuesday the 13th.

Yep.

Isaac?

Yes.

Uh make myself available.

And John.

We'll do our best.

I I gotta make sure I gotta make sure BCTV and um everyone else is available.

But crack legal team and all right, good.

Um I know I I commend the public for remaining for this budget issue.

I also commend the staff, all the department heads are here, ready to go, and I appreciate that as well.

So let's move to the um tabled item from the um replaced rooftop unit at Central Station, and we have a memo in our consent.

Uh, but I'd like to ask Chief the Fire Chief to join us.

Jay, good evening.

Good evening.

John, do you want to introduce this matter?

Uh no, I'll just turn it over to the chief to uh explain his sticking on this one.

Great.

Um okay, so I kind of put together a quick little dialogue here to answer some of the questions that came up during the public comment.

So our current situation at the starting of the colder weather, we experienced the loss of heat that feeds the officer and administrative area in the ready rooms of the fire department.

Uh the existing unit, the existing rooftop unit was manufactured in 2017.

Uh during the installation, this rooftop unit went through a I would say catastrophic failure.

Uh it actually exploded and injured the person that was installing it.

I don't have a lot of details on what exactly occurred, but for somehow we ended up with this rooftop unit continuing to be installed and in service in the fire station.

So because it was manufactured in 2017, there's no warranty coverage for this.

Uh the unit is unsafe.

The heat exchanger is rotted with a hole in the heat exchanger, which is releasing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere of the firehouse.

So, due to that, we had to shut it down.

Um the station temperatures are dropping to below 60s in those office areas.

Now we left the blowers on because the bay floors are heated with a boiler radiant floor heat.

And what that exchanger does or what the airflow does is it pulls air from the from the bay floor, circulates it through that rooftop unit and then pushes out the office area.

The air temperature of the air coming out is usually around 58 to 62 degrees.

Um so when you're sitting at your desk, it's rather chilly.

So to supplement this, we've we've got some plug-in electric heaters to you know keep it at least 65 degrees in those areas.

The existing refrigerant is being phased out that's in that rooftop unit.

So the new rooftop unit will use a uh R5 454B, which is more environmentally friendly.

So we looked at repairs, and the manufacturer does not offer a replacement heat exchanger, so that was out of the question.

The only viable solution was the full replacement of that rooftop unit.

Initially, when we started this, we were looking at replacing the heat exchanger and then replacing the rooftop unit maybe in the next budget year or you know uh FY28.

Uh but this became a non-starter for us.

So our proposed solution, uh control technologies is a company we use to update all our thermostats throughout the firehouse.

Uh we'd like to use them as a sole provider.

They're the ones that are servicing our HVAC system.

They have extensive knowledge of our building and automation system, and they have the ability to they have the rooftop unit, and they can uh install a New York rooftop unit with the existing controls, and it's an emergent repair due to the loss of heat in the fire station.

Uh the scope of work includes the removal and disposal of the old unit, installation of the new rooftop unit, all the reconnections, integration of the system, startup and conditioning.

So the estimated cost for this project is 43,355.

That includes materials, labor, crane service, and commissioning.

Uh it also assumes that uh Superintendent Tyler or DPW director Tyler is gonna help us out with some unloading and moving to try to cut some expenses.

So the funding source.

Um I've been watching Select Boards uh meeting since October, and I understand the emergency funds and those are dwindling.

We're trying to stay away from using those.

So to be fiscally responsible, I know it's not a fire truck, uh, but I kind of evaluate our funds and where our funds lie.

And right now we have a balance going into the fire truck replacement fund for 110,000.

So my proposal is to take the 44,000 out of that fund, uh, which would which would bring that down uh for what's going into the capital improvement for this fiscal year, but then add it to the FY27 budget uh to get that back into the capital plan.

So we're overall we're not decreasing that capital fund, we're just gonna put it back next year.

Um this was this was an unforeseen equipment failure.

Uh if you remember from my initial budget proposal, I had put $20,000 in capital to support future replacements of things like the roof, bay doors, HVAC, windows, etc.

Uh this has never been done before.

This is kind of my first year of being able to project the budget, and then that was uh a thing I noticed was we had no capital replacement plan for any of these failures.

Umfortunately, as I put this plan in place, I already have an equipment failure, and here we are.

Um so the time frame we're looking at is is once we can say yes to this.

Uh they expect seven to ten turner days to turn around a couple parts they need, and then the installation commissioning will take four twenty-four hours once the work begins.

So immediate action on this is needed to restore the heat to our building and ensure safety and comfort for the staff and the visitors.

Uh it complies with all environmental standards and operational reliability.

Uh, it does come with a one-year installation warranty and a five-year warranty on the rooftop unit.

Uh, my requested action, we approve the contracting control technologies as a sole provider for rooftop unit replacement, the central fire station using funds from the FY26 fire engine replacement capital fund up to 44,000.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Uh board, do you have questions?

Sure.

Go right ahead.

Thank you for putting that together on the fly.

Also, I appreciate that.

Um this is a hopeful question.

Probably the answer is no, but you said a balance of 110k in a in one of the fire truck capital fund.

That's not like an unexpected surplus of 110k, that's just cash on it.

Okay, that's all.

And that was so originally that was 185,000.

We already took 75,000 out because we lost the cheapest truck.

Uh-huh.

So that brought it down to 110, so that's that's number of slacks.

Okay.

Um, my thoughts are pretty simple.

It's I'm glad that you've added the stuff to the capital plan going forward.

That's going to be really helpful.

There's loss of heat, we have to replace it, and I understand the concerns, but we are planning to make this up in next year's budget in seven days.

So I'm not particularly bent out of shape about the funding source.

It could come from unassigned fund balance and it would be made good in the same way.

So I am on board.

Anyone else on the board?

Amanda.

Yeah, quick question.

So in the bank of materials that says warranty details will be confirmed during the final agreement, but that's already been determined as five years for the warranty.

Yep.

Um, and also I mean, one really compelling thing for me was the um the refrigerant, the the old refrigerant to call it.

Um the R for 10A.

I mean, that is getting based out universally on so many heating and cooling things so that you can't actually repair it, correct?

Right.

Right.

So like phasing up to a more modern uh fuel efficient model is running up.

Yep.

Or energy efficient.

Okay.

Cool, great.

And we had that issue in a much larger scale at the skating ring.

Right.

The gentle the gentleman to my left.

Do you have comments?

If you need it, you gotta have it.

I'm here for you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Thanks for the explanation.

Thank you.

Motion.

One to make a motion and we'll open it up to the public.

All right, I'll motion to approve the fire department to proceed with contract and control technologies inc as the sole provider for the rooftop unit replacement at the central fire station using funds from the FY26 fire engine replacement capital fund.

Thank you.

Um members of the public wish to speak to this issue.

Kate?

You know, Connor Bratabarrow, I want to thank you for taking it off the consent agenda and discussing it now.

It was never an issue of whether we needed to make this replacement.

It's that we're sort of getting in this habit of spending money on things out of funds for which it was not intended.

So I think it was just uh uh hearing it and hearing the explanation and now finding out that you are going to replace this money.

I think it's just really important that there's a hundred percent transparency.

So I hope in the future we could avoid having putting things on the consent agenda, but I do want to say thank you and thank you to the chief, and I understand why you need it.

It's never an issue of whether you need it or not.

It was where the money was coming from.

So thank you.

Thank you, Kate.

Anyone else?

Heidi.

Thank you, Kate.

I agree with all of what she just said.

Um I just want to ask, was there a bidding process for this project?

Because my understanding is that all projects over a thousand dollar, ten thousand dollars for the town have to have three proposals, etc.

etc.

Did that did that happen?

No, and the reason that didn't happen is because of the emergency of the nature and the the town policy states that because it's an emergent repair, we don't have to go through a bidding process.

Dick.

I think I heard you say, Jay, that we we and I remember we took $75,000 out for the assistant chief's vehicle last year, and now $44,000 here.

So we've taken that fund that was pretty close to funding that uh replacement ambulance, and we've now reduced it to a $125, roughly $125,000 that we're gonna make up.

I'm surprised that you can't find $43,000.

Uh you still have roughly six and a half months left of or six months left of budget, and that you couldn't find this money in your budget.

And we do have other funds available that we could have taken this money.

So I hope that you uh somebody makes a motion to change where we take the funds from because the taxpayers are gonna end up making up the difference here when we have other monies available to use.

Thank you.

Kenneth.

Jay, would you like to comment on that?

Sure.

Uh so I I did look at our operational funds.

Um everybody's aware of our our overtime is over budget right now.

Currently, our staffing line, uh, we show a $500 um a projected $500 savings because of our our six vacancies that we have, but that's gonna go towards overtime.

Uh our station repair fund is down to $10,000.

Uh we really have no we run such a tight budget on the operational side that I have I'm at 50% of most all my lines, which is where we should be for this year.

So we are spending our funds appropriately.

43,000 dollars would kill our funds.

We just we wouldn't be able to make that back up.

And I have no place to cut it from.

Thank you.

Oscar?

I you said $500 on salary, I assume five dollars.

Oh, five, yeah.

$500,000 on salary.

Um Dick, did you have a specific funding source in mind?

I like I thought would we change the name to the ARPA funds that were left?

Uh that's just revolving loan fund now.

I think that's where we're not ARPA is not involving loan.

And what about what about uh how much money is actually left?

I know John has a prediction of putting $200,000 into our uh undesignated account.

How much money is left in that account?

I mean, if if there's $50,000 in there, then let's use it.

Why why do we want to put a burden on the taxpayers a couple years down the road when we have this money here?

$50,000, we could always have CAP licenses to bring it up again.

Could could town manager talk about funds available and any other available use for departments to take care of such emergency?

The only other funds I'm aware of.

I mean, we could just use unassigned fund balance.

Um but I don't really see the difference, like there's not a big difference between what's being proposed and doing that.

Um you could use revolving loan fund for this uh if you'd wanted to use that money instead of for something else.

Um it's really the the only options I can think of.

I don't recommend that.

I mean there are provisions for the revolving loan fund and an HVAC replacement is a stretch.

And and if we wanted to make this money comes out of our bank account one way or another.

If we want to make that good later from a different funding source, we can.

Um yeah, it's a little bit of just moving numbers around, but we cannot we can choose not to add this money back into the FY27 budget and save the taxpayers the money that way, and then that money will come out of the unassigned fund balance, and it's all you know the bottom line will be the same, but it's an option.

So like a replenish state.

Yeah, so I would say we can approve this now, spend the money, and then if we want to do something with how we make it good later, we'll always have that option.

But okay.

Well, we'll leave it to Jay and his brain trust to come up with some good ideas.

Um we have a motion you're ready to.

I did it brilliantly too, I have to say.

It was perfect.

Somebody want to show it to me.

Yeah, hold on.

You did do it brilliantly.

Thank you.

I mean, because you ad hoc it, and I was really impressed.

Okay, I got it.

Peter has made a motion to approve the fire approve the fire department to proceed with contracting control technologies in as the sole proprietor for the rooftop unit replacement at Central Fire Station using funds from the FY27 fire engine replacement capital fund.

Oh, select board members in favor of this motion.

Please raise your hand and say aye.

I'm 5-0.

I'd like one more motion, please.

Move to adjourn.

All right.

All in favor of adjournment, please raise your hand and say aye.

Thank you all very much.

Thank you, BC TV.

Thank you, Jay.

Thank you.

And thank you, Seth.

Do we have things to sign?

Oh, yeah, things to sign.

Thank you, Amanda.

We're welcome.