All right, it's at 5 30.

We'll go ahead and get started.

Have roll call.

Mindy Payne, here.

Jonathan Townsend?

Here.

Jalen Clempa.

Here.

Jason Cohen.

Here.

Robert Gorenson.

Here.

Item number three, whole business.

We have none.

Item number four consideration.

Consent agenda.

Before we have a motion, I do have a question for the staff or for our attorney.

About what?

Can I about the before I might because I might want to pull the minutes to ask a question about it?

Oh, if you have minutes, yeah, you can pull those.

But can I ask a question about that before I make motion?

A general question.

Let's hear your question.

Yeah.

You probably have to.

Why don't I just pull it first?

Yeah, pull it.

I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Yeah.

All right.

So we'll have a uh let's see.

I'd like to pull item number four A twenty-six dash one thirty-four.

It's the minutes from the last meeting.

Okay, anybody else have anything?

No.

Okay.

I make a motion that we pull item four A and approve uh item 4B per staff recommendation.

Second the motion.

Mindy Payne, yes.

Jonathan Townsend?

Yes.

Jalen Klempa.

Yes.

Jason Cohen.

Yes.

Robert Gorenson.

Yes.

Now the item four, item five consideration item removed.

So that takes me back to four A.

So on the minutes, it is kind of a general question, I guess.

Since we do this by video, also like if somebody want to go back and look, we have the minutes that we bless off on.

We send to the city council for their approval.

So does the video do the audio and video, I guess, from the meeting it actually has the same credence or more than the memorialized ones in writing?

The minutes are required by the Oklahoma Open Meeting Act.

The video is something we do in addition to that.

So like if something went into well, like court or whatever, I guess they would use the written minutes then.

No, no, no if this went to a court, they would actually transcribe the video again.

Word by word.

Okay, good.

That's right.

That's what I was going to say.

I just want to make sure one didn't uh take precedence over the other one.

No, no, not at all.

Okay.

All right.

With that, then I'll move to approve 4A 26-134.

I'll second.

Mindy Payne, yes.

Jonathan Townsend.

Yes.

Jaley Clempa?

Yes.

Jason Cohen.

Yes.

Robert Gorenson.

Yes.

Item number six, public hearings.

Item 6A 26-133.

Staff want to cover that.

Sure.

This is a rezon request BAZ 002565-2025.

Proposing to change the zoning on this property from AG agricultural to CG commercial general for the proposed commercial development during the December 18th, 2025 meeting.

Two opposition forms were received, and a surrounding property owner voiced concerns regarding increased traffic, pedestrian safety, noise and light pollution, depreciating property values, nearby competition of other stores, increased litter, and a decrease in quality of life.

The comprehensive plan amendment is scheduled for city council on January 20th, 2026.

This rezone application follows that item with the understanding that the comprehensive plan amendment will need to be approved by city council prior to the rezone application going to city council, which is slated for February 3rd, 2026.

These back-to-back applications support the project timeline of the development.

With the addition of the development, a copy of the full analysis is available for review in the community development department.

Right in, right out turn lanes are requested for the Kenosha Street Driveway to promote safe left-hand turns at the stoplight.

The zoning ordinance addresses exterior lighting standards in section 4-4-2.

Litter on property maintenance issues can be addressed by code enforcement division if they arise.

Current zoning is agricultural, and that's a power substation.

Based upon the comprehensive plan, the location of the property and the surrounding land uses, staff recommends that BAZ 002565-2025 be approved subject to the property being platted.

All right, thanks, Rebecca.

Any questions, staff?

So Rebecca, let me ask you.

So you're asking, so yes, the applicant come forward, please.

So we I guess the city does not have any of the right-of-way right now on ONEDA or Kenosha Street.

So through the plating process, we will get the right-of-way, correct?

Um that's correct.

If it's approved.

Yes, if it was approved, then we could ask for it at that time.

Okay, but currently the city doesn't have it right now, correct?

Um, I do think that we have a portion of that right-of-way.

If there is kind of during the site review, if there is plans for expansion for that roadway, that's when we would collect the additional right-of-way needed or necessary.

I was just curious if we had on both sides, but I think that we only get on the west side if this was approved.

All right.

So all right, applicant, Mr.

Reynolds.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Yes, sir, Mr.

Chairman.

Thanks.

Lou Reynolds, 2727 East 21st Street.

Uh represent the applicant.

Uh I want to start out with with a little bit of history.

Uh about 18 months ago, the this planning commission uh approved it did not go to city council and go all the way, but we approved the PUD for the iron buck, which which basically had an industrial, light industrial type zoning and proposed uh a mini storage.

It also approved major entertainment uses by right in that PUD.

And uh it it it just seems at this spot.

This is uh a grocery store use at this spot, is what we're asking for.

And and and that uh iron buck required a level six type uh comprehensive plan amendment that was recommended for approval.

And and this has the level four that you all have recommended for approval.

Uh and our grocery store use as we uh just kind of looked at a list of comments and things that we got last time.

The you know, we we know that that storm water was a concern and and and stormwater will be picked up and detained in accordance with your ordinances for the most part.

It it's it's headed uh to the the west of this site and headed north.

Don't expect any off-site impacts.

I've been around that property and that will be easily to deal with.

Uh litter, your ordinances take care of that.

Quality of life.

I think this is about the quality of life with a project like this.

This is this is no different to me than what uh you've done like with your Rhodes District downtown.

You've seen the the nicer commercial projects and new things come in and new uses, and you've seen the residential impacts that are positive all around it.

We've seen a similar thing down in the New Orleans district on Elm and 101st.

The improvements there, the improved commercial area and the impacts have spread over into improving and and raising home values and things in the uh in the general neighborhoods around there.

So these are these are property values.

This is absolutely uh the highest and best use for this property as one for the city as well as this neighborhood.

Like I said, we got the traffic uh impact analysis done.

It shows no impact on this property.

I'm gonna stop you right there, Mr.

Reynolds.

I have a question before I forget because that's what I was gonna ask a minute ago, staff, but I'll ask you now.

Yes, sir.

He's saving your time, don't worry.

So on the traffic impact analysis uh study, was that done by was that initiated, I guess, by the applicant or the city do that because we don't usually require one at the time yet, correct?

We did voluntarily.

Okay, okay.

So just we we just wanted to be able to just that because I'm surprised that it came with the zoning because usually it's down the road.

Yes, no pun intended.

That's correct.

It's usually at cladding.

Right.

And and but we've done it in advance just because we want to deal with with these kinds of concerns and things.

Right.

You know, we we heard about pedestrian uh this is as best of pedestrian use as you can possibly get because we'll have sidewalks on both sides of our property.

Uh you know, a question came up about lighting, you know, uh uh on the arterial street there on 241st with the residents across the street.

Uh the broken air's lighting standard, I believe, is at the property line, our property line there on the west side of the street, one half of a foot candle, no more.

And and so that that's cut off.

You know, our our fixtures are cut off and directed down in a way, and that's just part of your rules.

And uh, and and there's I can't expect there to be any noise pollution related to you know operating grocery store here.

So I think a very positive thing for the area, and it's positive uh and shows that things are going up and rising out here that somebody's contributing and making a difference.

So I'd respect what you're guessed to approve this as recommended by your staff and try to answer any questions yeah.

All right, thanks.

Thanks.

Any question applicant?

Thanks, Mr.

Reynolds.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Did we have anybody?

Those are expensive.

Yeah.

Did we have anybody sign up to speak on this item?

Okay.

Any discussion?

Well, I think there is a need for a grocery store over there.

I did too.

So I think that would be convenient for a lot of the people in the area to be able to access and and have an actual grocery store, not a convenience store or family dollar.

Yeah, us requesting it, or they did it on their own.

Yeah.

For help proactively address some concerns of citizens.

Yeah, yes.

Exactly.

So if there's no further discussion, I'm gonna go ahead and make a motion to approve item six A per staff recommendations.

Second, have a motion approve uh second for approval, have roll call vote.

Mindy Payne, yes.

Jonathan Townsend?

Yes, J Lee Clempa, yes, Jason Cohen, yes, Robert Gorin.

Yes.

Mr.

Reynolds, that'll go that'll be right here February tw uh February 3rd, 630, I believe it is.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Yep, thank you.

City council.

Next item on the agenda is item number six B, 26-145.

Yes.

This is public hearing consideration and possible action regarding PUD-002514 2025 and BAZ-002575-2025 pediatrics plus 14.55 acres, residential single family, and residential multifamily to agricultural and commercial general located just south of Washington, also called 91st Street, and just east of Aspen, also called 14050 Avenue.

PUD-002514-2025 is proposed to create a planned you planned unit development for a proposed therapeutic farm.

The property is located south of Washington Street and east of Aspen Avenue.

This PUD and BEZ is uh rezoning is proposed to change the zoning designation on 14.55 acres of land from RS and RM to CG and AG.

More specifically, 7.98 acres will be rezoned to commercial general, while 6.57 acres will be rezoned to AG.

This split zoning will allow for the rear portion of the property to be used for the farm aspect of the development.

The PUD request also includes a request that buffer yard landscaping requirements be weighed for zoning boundaries within the development.

Surrounding land uses and comprehensive plan designations.

The surrounding properties contain the following uses along with the following uh development guide and zoning designations.

To the north, it is level two urban residential, and the zoning is residential single family, and the land use is currently residential single family.

To the east, it is levels six and three.

Um the zoning is currently residential multifamily, uh but the land use is currently vacant or agricultural.

To the south, it is level three transition area and level four commercial employment nodes.

Um the current zoning is regist residential single family, uh, but the current land use is vacant or agricultural.

To the west is level three transition area, level four commercial employment nodes.

The current zoning is residential single family, but the land use is as well vacant and agricultural.

According to FEMA maps, a portion of the property is located in the 100-year floodplain.

Water and sanitary sewer are available from the city of Broken Arrow.

Based upon the location of the property, the surround and the surrounding land uses, staff recommends that PUD 002514 2025 be approved and BAZ 002575 2025 be approved subject to plotting.

And the applicant is here as well.

All right.

Thanks, Jose.

Any questions to the staff?

Discussion?

Jose, I do have one question on the buffer yards.

So I guess we call out for I guess the when like if there's gonna be a road, that's why we have the two different zones.

But since it's gonna be one property, one ownership, that's why we don't care about having the street going to it, right?

We just we don't mind where the two different zones tie into each other, correct?

Yeah, yeah.

So part of it was the part of it is the PUD is um is also having that portion of zoned area without kind of that frontage.

Um and then part of it is as well as that interior that interior buffer yards.

So normally if it's a you know a commercial abutting to agricultural, which would kind of be would have that buffer yard, but since it's the same property, we don't want to you know have them deal with that.

And that makes sense.

So it's tied to the PUD itself, right?

Yes.

So uh I don't know if you need that in a motion tonight if if we approve of it, whatever.

But anyway, so it it stays tied with the PUD.

So it's the only way I guess they would have to come back before the planning commission to change it, or if they sell the property, did is it's does it stay tied to that or yeah, it would state it was state tied the PUD and all the um development regulations within it would stay tied to the to that property.

Um the new owner buys it, you know.

A lot of the the PUD is written kind of almost specifically for this specific use.

So if someone else bought it and try to build a you know auto or you know, auto shop or something like that, they would have to work on all those, they would have to work with all those PUD requirements, and so that would probably make it to the point where it'd be easier for them to just get rid of that PUD and of course they'd have to come with the code.

I agree, and that that was what my question is if it would stayed with the PUD and it stayed with with just the land itself.

So if somebody else bought it, could they use that non-buffer zone area for what they want to, and it really not be what the city wants if that makes sense?

I guess in theory, yeah, that that that could happen if someone else did come in and buy it.

Um since that's how it's written, you know, it could be in theory someone could you know um do that, but um you know I'm not you know, I'm the likelihood of that happening.

I'm not sure too much, right?

I understand.

I was just curious about it.

All right, thanks.

Of course.

You have anything you wish to add?

Absolutely.

I bet.

Yes.

I've been in the card for four hours, so I'm ready to stand up.

Wow, but you don't have that long to talk now.

How long do I have?

10 minutes to start.

So my name, my name is David Tapp, uh, 1000 Southwest Drive in Conway, Arkansas.

This will be uh hopefully our eighth uh farmhouse to build for children with autism.

And so one request we always have, or one question we always get is is this overnight?

Is this Monday through Sunday?

Like seven days a week, and it's not it's Monday through Friday, uh roughly around four eight o'clock till four, four thirty, depending upon the child's diagnosis with autism.

Um we try and do is we love this property because there's tree lines all around us, and actually to the to the right of us, uh there's a farm already there with cows on it.

And so we're doing therapeutic stuff for kids with autism, and in the front we had the farmhouse that you can see, and uh we have gyms in there, we had treatment rooms, kitchens, um a lot of space for kids to get therapy.

And then on the back side where we need the agriculture, we have a barn, uh we have a greenhouse, we have uh garden, uh we have donkeys, we have sheep, and so the kids can come out, uh, get the eggs from the chickens and then go back inside and they can work on baking cookies or something like that.

So what the goal is is you have kids that are eight to fifteen or eight to eighteen, and by the time they're done with us, they can go uh work at a coffee shop or work at a bakery learning uh different things at uh pediatrics plus.

So we're excited to be in Broken Arrow.

We're excited about this uh location.

Yeah, there's several of our farms uh right now, and we try to keep it as natural as possible.

So you can see uh I heard lighting just a while ago about uh the last applicant.

We try to keep it as as basic as we can.

Um, but we try to keep lighting to a minimum uh because we want to have that farmhouse type feel for the kids where they feel like they're not going to a commercial place, they're going to uh their grandma's house or or their house and they're learning all these uh things that we uh do for the kids with autism.

So we're excited to be here and I'll answer any questions if you got them.

Well, I tell you what, when I saw this, I I after the agenda was posted, I talked to my daughter.

She's a she she can relate to this.

She's I I don't know exactly.

She's a medical mental therapist, I guess, with children and stuff like that, and she was just really excited to see it.

I think it's a really cool deal.

I mean, I think Broken Arrow is lucky to get something like this, to be honest with you.

Well, I'll give my wife the credit, she's the one who thought of the idea, and so um she's the smart one of the So how many of these did you say you had a few years?

So we have four currently in Arkansas that are open.

Uh we've got uh one in Springdale, Arkansas that will open in June, one in Cersei, Arkansas will open in February, and one in Talacwa, Oklahoma that will open in August.

So this will be our second one in Oklahoma that we hope to open up uh very soon.

It usually takes about 10 months to build them.

Can you talk a little bit about the farmers market and who gets to participate in that?

Yeah, so what we do is the kids have the vegetable gardens, like we have a greenhouse, right?

So we've got vegetable beds, and that's on Saturdays usually.

Um it's usually every once a month.

And now if it's cold, we're not gonna do it, and if we don't have the vegetables, we're not gonna do it.

But it gives them a chance to be open for the community.

So you might have five kids that planted seeds and it grew whatever, and then on a Saturday they can uh come here and say, hey, we got these vegetables for sale and feel part of the community.

And usually uh, you know, 10 people show up and it's two hours long, and and um they may make a donation of five dollars or something, but again, it's trying to get those kids to feel like they're part of the community and they've grown this vegetable or whatever, or have seven eggs.

We have 25 chickens, and so uh there's more eggs that we can handle, and as egg prices increase, like people are like, Yeah, I need some eggs, right?

Um so that's a little bit about the farmers market is we try and do that to community on Saturdays, usually once a month.

So, what kind of age group are we talking about?

Usually it's I would say our average age, so typically we have about 45 to 50 children at the at the farms when we're full size, and I would say the average age is around 10 to 11.

But they're not staying there, right?

No, they're not staying.

Right, they're just coming.

Um, and uh again, it depends on their diagnosis.

Like a lot, I'd say half of our children are nonverbal that come to us.

Um so they're usually there almost seven hours or two.

So what age limit, or what was age again?

Uh our average age is probably 10.

Okay, but we can see kids from five to eighteen.

So they're always monitoring when somebody's out there and stuff like that.

That's right.

And sometimes you might have broken arrow school system, right?

They they may uh go to broken arrow school or uh private school, whatever.

They may come to the farm after school and get occupational therapy, and we have uh a football where they're throwing and they're working on movement or whatever, getting occupational physical therapy as well.

They may get additional therapy with us if uh their plan requires that.

Yeah, I'd probably go on digging deeper than I should on this, but what kind of animals are you gonna have?

I'm just curious.

Yeah, so our first thing.

I mean, this is really cool.

Our first farm we went a little overboard, like we have like so much garden space, it's it was too much.

Um, but at Conway, we have uh two donkeys, two sheep, uh a miniature horse, um, another horse, and 35 chickens.

Because we're building so many, like we have to, we're almost like Chick-fil-A in a way, like we have to do processes.

And so now we've got a person that we do two donkeys and two sheep and 25 chickens.

So we have somebody in Arkansas that we're like, hey, we need two more donkeys, and so they're breeding the donkeys and they're small for kids, right?

And so we're trying to make sure those donkeys are safe for the kids, and we have a corral, like it's not like we just put the kids out in the pasture and say go crazy.

Uh but we have a little corral and we have a farm technician, so that's another question is like who takes care of this.

See, I was gonna ask that.

So we hire a farm technician, they're they're 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday, and some Saturdays and Sundays, especially if it's cold, and they're responsible for the animals, the garden, and just general landscape and maintenance of the property.

Um and they have times where kids will come out and say, Okay, I've got the donkeys ready for y'all to come out and pet uh or visit with them or talk to them, whatever.

Um, but if you've ever grown up on a farm like myself, there's always something to do with 14 and a half acres here in Broken Arrow.

Like there's a lot of cool things we can do at that farm as long as there's no snakes.

Um we don't do snakes.

Well, you know, it's a great location.

There's a creek over there.

It's a great location.

You don't actually have houses right beside you.

But if you did, if I lived right beside you, I'd be I'd this would be great.

Look out there and see that kind of thing.

Well, I'm learning in Oklahoma, and I'm sorry for my time.

I'm learning Oklahoma to Talliqua.

Um we walked that land, it was 20 acres we bought.

We walked that land twice, and when we started digging and and moving dirt, they found over 200 snakes.

Um they hit a rock pile of just snakes just everywhere.

It's like Indiana Jones if you ever watched any of the shows of the day.

And when I walked broken arrow behind Brahms uh two two or three months ago, I'm like, I hope there's no snakes in here.

So Oklahoma, I guess, is notorious for snakes, and you just let's tell you, I interrupted.

You didn't use your time, you still have over seven minutes.

I was the one that stopped your time.

So you still have time if there's anything you wish to present.

Anything else?

No, we're just how many staff are you gonna do?

Yes, great question.

So typically it's around 65 staff.

Um we do 77 parking spaces, um, and that allows for growth.

Now, with our farm, we know that there's a certain amount of capacity that we can have before it gets crazy.

If you if you've ever had uh been around children with autism, like you just can't put 150 kids in there.

We we have one site in Conway that we have developmental preschool with and we have 230 kids from birth to five in that facility, and it's a lot.

That's a lot and so we built these um with the kids, families and therapists in mind, like we could build these 20,000 square feet and have a hundred kids, but we try to have 45 to 50 because it gets loud in there, and especially during pickup time, um there could be uh 10 kids in the living room with their therapists.

So it's one-on-one therapy.

So if you think 45 kids will have 45 therapists, and then we have supervisors over those therapists, and then we have the farm technician and we have the director and the assistant director and the front desk.

So typically when we're full, and and we also have a lot of um uh people that come to do um shadowing, right?

They're like, hey, what is this place?

I may I'm a high school person, I want to learn more about autism or how I can be an RBT or a B C B A.

And so they come and do shadowing with us, and so we have to have parking for them too.

So typically we have about 60 to 65 employees, but we have 77 parking spots because we just have people come and shadow.

That's exactly right.

If I can ask, uh just because unfortunately I've seen a lot of well-intended institutions that are trying to serve young people.

Sure.

Either hire someone who is um up to no good or or sometimes they don't know and and things can happen.

That's right.

So my question is can you speak to um I think you said you had eight eight of these um just kind of your history and and have there been issues or concerns?

Yep.

Um that maybe could be Googled.

I I I haven't researched or anything, but I just wanted to kind of hear about the track record of keeping kids safe in the other campuses that you operate.

Absolutely.

So we started Pediatrics Plus in 2002 out of our house, out of uh my house and and the uh other uh partners of ours in in Little Rock, and therapists are dropping notes off in our house, and we're doing home health.

We had about 10 therapists at the time, and in 2005, I quit my job and became full-time at Pediatrics Plus because I started seeing a need.

And and since then we have 1,300 employees and about 800 therapists.

And what we've seen, we we we only not only do we have eight farmhouses that we're building and all that, we've also had these pediatric preschools that I just taught to you in in Conway, Little Rock, Sherwood.

We have nine of those.

And so our history with that is yeah, sometimes you get bad players, like we we're in developmental preschools, birth to five, and we hire a lot of a lot of people, and sometimes you get bad players, right?

And so we have cameras.

So one thing is all of our we have about I'm gonna say 35 to 45 cameras at all of our farmhouses and all the treatment rooms, all the gyms outside, like we're able to monitor that.

But as far as um lawsuits or um things like that, like in 25 years, um we've been very blessed.

And so it that's why we have an assistant director.

That's why we have supervisors.

We have five supervisors over ten one supervisor supervises eight to ten people every day, and so there's that interaction where you're constantly watching, and we have protocols like uh we call them runners.

So some kids with autism, like they're runners.

And it's like we have a runner, we have mag locks on our doors.

Um, and and some kids sometimes you just have to put something on your arm and their arm, and because they're runners, right?

And so uh we try and do all the safety protocols, but again, when you're dealing with uh uh I can't even remember the number, thousands of kids that we treat every day uh company wide, uh we've been very blessed with great employees.

That's exactly what I was hoping to hear.

You speak to the protection of the kids, and you've done that talking about the surveillance and even kind of the the order of operation or the chain of operation within the the management uh that you guys have.

So thank you for speaking to that.

Something that is near and dear to my heart.

Sure.

Anytime comes in here talks talking about they're gonna help some kids and especially kids who have um you know needs that sometimes need uh need require a little extra attention.

I think it's amazing.

Yeah I think as you guys so don't get our hopes up and like let us enjoy this and then say oh we don't want to do this.

If so we won't hold you to this that's happened.

We won't hold you to this even though there's a public record here but do you have a timeline when you actually hope to be open absolutely so our plan is if if this all passes with you guys and then with city council as soon as we get the the approval we'll immediately go to permitting and um we hope to start in May.

Okay.

And we've been doing these with our our construction company now this will be their fifth one and the build if if all goes well is around 10 months.

So do you like have a sign of depth where this building is used here or like Conway we're gonna use this one here or we are so this one um we have two models one is um around 9800 square feet and one is 11,000 square feet this will probably be the the larger one because of the size of you can move pretty quick then it sounds like that's right.

Talacaw is a little bit smaller because Taliqua is a smaller city.

So we're doing the the smaller version there but probably the larger one here.

Absolutely so the biggest need is like finding therapists and finding people that want to work with children with autism.

That's the biggest need that we have because there's not a lot of BCBAs out there.

So we're trying to spread the word on how to become a BCBA and what that's BCBA standard.

It's a behavioral analysis so they're the supervisor of the child with with therapist and so there's only a few colleges out there where you can actually get a degree to be a BCBA and so uh Washita Baptist in Arkendel Arkansas we helped create a program there to um graduate BCBA so they're ready to come work for us or anybody else that have to work for us they can work for anybody but um our autism is very prevalent and it's it's growing unfortunately like we've been doing this for 20 years and never did we think that we would be doing this all over like it's it's it's crazy.

But we're we're glad to help and glad to be in broken arrow.

Well we appreciate coming to broken air I mean I I've talked about pocket excellence sometimes and this looks like it's one of them I mean I think it's a good thing for broken air also in in the community so I think it's much needed for this area for sure.

Absolutely any other discussion with the applicant all right thanks thank you all for letting me stretch my legs and for talking and you could drive four hours back now right there's back with smiling so you'd be smiling so thank you thank you.

So did anybody else was anybody else signed up to speak?

No I guess rather close public hearing any discussion.

No I have one question for staff with it being within city limits is there a concern with another number of animals I don't recall how many like chickens can be within the city limits of broken arrow and yeah I know I think what we have um and you can correct me if if I'm uh misremember but I think what we have basically for um animals primarily for chickens um really the only what I see in the in the ordinances is basically for the coops where they're located they can't be um I think 40 feet from um a house um and and the house that's not the one that the chickens are owned by so um there's no homes nearby so I don't think there should be any issues and it's a pretty large property as well so um you know if there was a home that did pop up you know you know on their property line or something they should be able to still kind of um meet that code and all that and you know fit those regulations.

There isn't anything specifically um when it comes to like donkeys or um like um mini horses or anything like that at least that I you know saw in my um you know research on there I don't know if um David saw anything or grams on anything different yeah I think it's just generally if you're keeping these within places like grocery stores supermarkets or food service establishments is really the only prohibition so okay so I don't I don't see anything any problem with that.

But with this PUD we're not asking to add or subtract from what the ordinance is calling out in the way of animals on the right yeah and that and that was kind of the um and that's kind of the reasoning as well with us doing that agricultural um zoning so that way if you know we kind of cover our bases there you know that you know because we you know we could have gone and just rezoned all of it you know commercial general and it probably could have worked but you know it just doesn't sound right you know right having all the horses and cows in a commercial general area so that was kind of our intention with that agricultural was to cover that and so that way if there's any you know future neighbors or developers who buy those surrounding properties you know they're buying with the knowledge in mind that that property is on is agriculture and will be used you know for agricultural so if this with this being a PUD I guess if it's approved tonight we could you know if I guess I don't know I want to say this or not but I guess if you do find something in the way of limiting the animals and it doesn't work out for the applicant I guess maybe you could put that together for the city of uh the city council itself if we were to approve of it and recommend otherwise I guess they could ask they could come back for a to the board of adjustments I guess for a variance on zoning to get another chicken or two put out there if that makes sense.

So if this with this being a PUD, I guess if it's proved tonight, we could you know if I guess I don't know, I want to say this or not, but I guess if you do find something in the way of limiting the animals and it doesn't work out for the applicant, I guess maybe you could put that together for the city of uh the city council itself if we were to approve of it and recommend.

Otherwise, I guess they could ask, they could come back for uh to the board of adjustments, I guess, for a variance on zoning to get another chicken or two put out there if that makes sense.

Yeah, but you get a lot of acreage here compared to like somebody having just two acres or three acres.

The only prohibition we have are wild or exotic animals, so not necessarily household or barnyard type animals.

As long as it's agriculture, right?

Correct.

So no tigers.

Tiger's a wild animal.

I'm sorry, um we have a whole permit procedure for that.

If you want something that's not an ordinary animal, Mr.

Chair, I'd like to ask for the applicant to come back up so he could stretch his legs.

I I did have one more question actually that just came to mind.

So I thought I'd give them an opportunity to stretch your legs a little more, sir.

Uh just a quick question.

Do you ever have roosters?

No, we do not.

Okay.

Um so that was a concern of mine because as areas develop around this, right?

We could have a neighborhood build up, and then next thing you know, they got roosters waking them up at three o'clock in the morning.

So I just wanted to make sure.

The goal is, like I said, the two donkeys and the two sheep and the chicken.

The goal is to have the where we we build it and where the zone is agriculture.

We have it fairly close to the house.

That way the kids don't have to walk 500 yards or a thousand yards.

I mean, we have 14 acres, but if you look at the the site map, like we're trying to go to that bottom where the pond is already at, um, and between the pond and and that.

And so we're trying to get cl somewhat close to the house so that not to walk as far.

Um, but no uh no roosters.

Well, thank you.

I think the property location is a good transition between going from commercial into a residential.

You got that nice, especially the way that your your design of your your farmhouse area.

I think that's gonna look fantastic.

So we'll try and be uh uh we we like to keep the tree line to have a buffer because we want to pull in and it's almost like you don't even know the farmhouses there from the road.

So we don't clear a lot of trees.

Uh we like to keep a buffer line around that whole property where it seems like you're not in the city like you're at a farm.

And so we'll keep the tree line and the buffer as best as we can because we want to keep that secluded as best as possible.

Well, I and I'm sure as Mr.

Gorenson was saying, buying a house right by there, then you know what's going to happen with the property right next to it, right?

There's a lot of times that well, the realtor told me this would never be used.

And um that's right.

So I just uh I think there's a lot of opportunity there.

I was just concerned about noise pollution with roosters, so I just thought I'd ask that question.

But thank you.

That's all I had, unless you had anything else.

That's nice to have something like this in the city limits, you know.

Yeah, exactly.

So anything else.

I really like it.

So I'll make a motion to approve item six B per staff recommendations.

I'll second.

I have most second have roll call vote.

Mindy Payne, yes, Jonathan Townsend.

Yes.

Jayley Campa.

Yes.

Jason Cohen.

Yes.

Robert Gorenson.

Yes.

Now that'll go before the city council right here on February 3rd.

And I believe that's 6 30, right?

So you get a drive again.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Next drive safe.

Next item on the agenda is item number 6C 26-150.

Yes, this item is a public hearing consideration and possible action regarding PUD dash 002550-2025, NBAZ-002374-2025.

Uh D and B processing, 9.15 acres, agricultural to industrial light, and it's PUD, and the abrogation of PUD 193.

It is located one half mile south of Washington Street and one half mile east of the Creek Turnpike.

And this currently is one unplatted lot.

Uh this development is a proposed storage yard to serve the existing D and B processing facility that is across east across across east Gary Street to the south.

Uh, this property along with the property to the east was originally approved as part of BUD 193 and B A Z 1818 on November 8th, 2008 for Coach Port storage facility.

The property to the east developed for that PUD with the subject property that we're currently talking about planned as a second phase of development.

That second phase did not develop and was not platted along with the uh rest of PUD 193 coach port.

Um and that PUD restricts the uses on this parcel to indoor RV storage.

So the applicant would like to abrogate PUD 193 in order to develop a different concept.

And this PUD, PUD 2550-2025 consists of one development area with two potential phases of development.

The site will be used as a storage yard where raw materials will be stored for use at the existing D and B processing manufacturing facility located in the industrial development to the south across Gary Street.

No structures are proposed on this site.

Come on.

No, you know how many names J Lee read last time.

Twice, three times.

Access to the site will be available from East Gary Street, which is on the south.

According to FEMA maps, none of this property is located in 100 year floodplain.

Um although this is just me adding it.

There is um a blue line streamslash wetland kind of in the center that is um acknowledged and planned for in the PUD.

Um water and sanitary sewer are available from the city of Broken Arrow, but again, no structures are being um constructed there, I guess.

Uh so based on the conference plan, the location of the property and the surrounding land uses, staff recommends that PUD-002550-2025 and BAZ-002374-2025 be approved and that PUD 193 on this property be abrogated.

I guess so what you're gonna want motion, one motion for all that then?

Yes, that can all be one motion.

Okay, all right.

Thanks, McKinsey.

Can I ask a clarifying question?

So would we be abrogating PUD 193 only on this parcel, not on the existing coach board?

That is correct.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

Any other questions, Dad?

Is the applicant present?

Do you have anything you wish to add?

No, this is pretty well describes it.

I mean, there's no building.

Do you need to get a little bit more?

We I think we might have a question for you.

We'll need your name for the record, please.

I'm sorry.

That's all right.

No, I asked you if you had anything.

I didn't ask you to come up at first.

So now I'm asking to come up.

So it's his fault.

Yeah, it's also to get out of having to come up.

My name is Rob Cody, I'm an architect.

And uh do you're five.

Okay, just talking to my architect representing the owner.

Okay.

And uh the only thing I would say is that the subject stream, we've had a study uh from an environmental group, and we are going to take care of that stream and keep it open, uh, an open stream.

Uh other than that, um it'll just be used for a laydow yard.

And it won't have a bunch of jock.

It's constantly turning uh the the inventory, so that's all I have.

Did you have a question, Andy?

I'm not thinking how to word it right, or it doesn't sound the fence.

I like my fences.

Let's talk about these fences here.

Sure.

Because it says the that the poor condition wire fence remain in place at the west's property line.

You want to explain that one.

Do I okay?

Yeah, can you elaborate on that?

We we are uh we would like to keep that fence.

It's a it's a heavily wooded area to the west.

And uh so what if a fire comes through and takes all that wood away.

Are you gonna rebuild that fence that's poorly conditioned?

Well, there is no uh are you just using the foliage azure fence?

Yeah, there is an old fence there, but basically we're using the uh foliage as a screen.

Not as I mean it's not it's it's pretty thick in the spring and summer.

And to be frank the the foliage is far more attractive than the uh metal fence that they have as a uh as a uh uh screen along the street.

Well and that may be because we're talking about the the southern southern portion is a metal fence, correct?

Yes, right.

So did you want to talk about that?

I know we'll we talked about that.

And you know, and and and that southern portion between the street, we are uh pushing the fence back to give us a 11-foot uh area for landscaping.

Okay.

So we will have landscaping in front of that eight-foot.

What type of metal fence are you putting in our do you have like masonry columns in there like every 40 feet?

No, that this fence was already there before I was involved, but it's just if you're familiar with just a typical metal building, it's that type of fence.

So it's gonna stay what's out there then.

Yeah.

Okay.

It's so and it won't stay there, it'll be moved back to give us the required 10-foot landscaping.

So they're gonna be able to reuse it then.

Okay.

So there'll be no columns or anything.

It won't it won't be nice metal face looking, it'll just be a metal fence.

Yeah.

With the post, yeah.

Um it's it just looks like a metal building side.

Okay.

Well, um you guys had uh asked earlier about um kind of one of the concerns I think was um members of the public seeing um that as a drive by, right?

Especially leaving the amphitheater.

Um it just came to me.

Um Gary Street actually um is kind of like closed, um, kind of past that school.

Um there's actually those um bars that come in from the street, and they're kind of it's closed.

Right it is a public right-of-way, so it is a public street, so you know the city could come in and you know open those one day, and then folks can go out that way.

But um, but that road is closed to through traffic, so it's primarily traffic in that um industrial area there.

Well, my concern is if that ever does get opened.

And we have this beautiful amphitheater, and then we have this metal.

I just don't think it would look really nice.

Could I say something?

Sure.

My knowledge of that is second hand, but what I believe is going to happen is that the uh railroad crossing uh at that curve is going to be closed.

And so all of the traffic from the industrial area is going to be routed west.

And so there won't be any uh uh traffic from the amphitheater coming that way.

Uh unless the city chooses to open it up so that they can allow more people to go disperse from that area is what she's gonna do.

That's true.

It's it's it's just that I don't think they'll they'll have a reason to come that way since that railroad crossing will be closed.

Well I that's not coming from traffic firsthand.

Right.

Well, I know when the gates were open that when they were working on other things, there was a lot of people that came through the industrial area to get to the school and to do other things.

But that was what with the railroad crossing in operational.

I just I never say never.

Could we yeah could I mean perhaps this is something that should be I mean I want to get the the thing approved.

Right.

But is there could it be approved subject that we look into, you know, we present you with what the traffic's gonna do.

You know, instead of hearsay uh do something.

I'm more concerned about how it's gonna look.

You can drive by it now, and if it's gonna be I drive that area every day.

Yeah.

But that's what it's gonna look like.

Yeah.

Now then we can plant some nice plants and stuff.

We will do that.

It'll be landscaped at per year, you know, city of Broken Arrow zoning.

So this is a PUD, correct?

Yeah.

So being a PUD, if you want to increase the landscaping that's required in that 11-foot buffer, I guess you can do that too if you want to leave the fence as the fence.

I really like the fence to be you would like the fence to be replaced, replaced a lot nice along Gary, along Gary.

You could also have them come back and show you what the fence to look like.

Yeah.

The uh the only reason I I think the city of Broken Rill requires water uh service, but the only reason realistically that we have water is to uh water the uh the uh landscaping.

Right.

So I'm I mean we're spending about six or eight thousand dollars to get water to the site so that we can water the I mean the owner is not someone that you know he doesn't want it to look bad either.

But he does love his metal fence, but it's up to you.

Um in lieu of the metal fence across the west property.

I mean maybe we could investigate something a little bit more than uh what you're seeing now.

Well, you know, like Mindy's saying with the amphitheater going in and the traffic that we will see now and then through there, it if we have an opportunity to beautify the area a little bit bet more and not putting a lot of burden on you guys, you know, we'd like to do that.

And if the fence is gonna be taken down, that's an opportunity to put up another fence.

Make it look nicer.

Nothing.

Yeah, we're gonna the fence is gonna be relocated no matter what.

Right.

I mean, right now I guess I'd have to I need to know more details, but if the the fence on the west side is tied up with the landscaping area that's existing right now, and you don't want to put the cost to it to go out there and take the the vegetation out and then put a new fence up, we understand that.

So maybe kind of being a PUD, you know, scratch our back, scratch your, you know what I mean?

Maybe we can look at the fence.

And leave the landscape.

And I agree with what you're saying.

But Mindy made a good point.

If that debris, if it ever gets dies off, you know, vegetable what are we gonna do?

We're not gonna have a good fence over there, too.

So we've kind of let you off the hook on that one.

So with it being a PUD, we could require them to build a fence set if that happens, subject to the vegetation is removed via nature or any other thing else.

But that fence has to be replaced with that fence that matches the new fence that we are requiring it the at the south of the Gary.

Now, if you want to see what the fence is gonna look like, uh just some kind of photos or whatever what's fence gonna look like the new fence and the uh or the relocated fence and landscaping in front of it.

I'm not talking about putting a lot of money into that, but something that would help us make a decision on it.

You can ask for that and come back to do that, however, you want to do it.

Would you be willing to go back to the owner and talk to him about our concerns and requests?

Yeah, I'm trying to decide for us.

I'd like to keep it moving forward.

Um is there a way that we can do that?

Well, I'm not comfortable.

I I understand.

Is there a way that we can do that in the plating process?

Well, this is a PUD, so the next process is going to go to the city council for the approval, correct?

Which would be on February tw uh third, correct?

Right.

So it's moving fast right now.

Okay, so what you would like for us to do is to present you something with and then that's the do I I I guess that's what I'm saying.

I'd like to see the uh a nice fence on Gary.

Yeah.

And if all the trees and shrubs and everything go away, I'd like to see that be replaced by a nice fence.

If needed in the future, if needed in the future.

Because of the loss of the landscape.

Well, you know, that could be written up in the PUD because I know Farhard count me on this one, but we had I think if a sign, if the replay you replaced the sign more than 50 percent, I guess you had to replace the whole sign, bring up the code, whatever, but it's the same thing, I guess if you have to replace if you have to replace the fence.

If you lose 50 percent of that length of vegetation, you can always come in there and say take it all out and put up fence that you've already approved if you want to do it that way.

Yeah.

We're not trying to hold you up, we're just trying to make this look nice and do it right.

Yeah, we will we've spent a lot of money on the infrastructure for that area.

Yeah, and I want to make sure that that area is kept nice.

And Doug, the owner is very cognizant of that, and we're not wanting to be a you know, a blight on the area whatsoever.

Um so how do we proceed?

Well, either we can make a motion to have you come back and show us something, or if you want if you trust the applicant and staff that say, okay, this is what I want to see going to the city council, have it pre-centate at the city council and trust, you know, that they're gonna bring in what you're asking for.

You can do it that way.

However, you want to do it.

What do you think, Jose?

I mean, I think um something like that could certainly be done, probably.

You know, we could work because you know how I feel about fences.

Yeah, I don't like my fences.

I think we could work with the application in the other.

And they look nice and pretty.

And see what really we had an industrial area pretty much out there now that we've got the uh amphitheater going there, it's kind of changed.

But with the amphitheater.

It's going to start.

And you won't this won't be the first time it's gonna happen, I could tell you that right now.

Yeah.

I mean, we're happy to pre to present a different thing.

Because we're gonna have a lot of businesses come in there after this is built, and I want to make sure that it looks nice.

A solution that might work for all parties.

Um, if you want to continue this item to the next planning commission meeting to see those proposals, we could keep it on the same uh February 3rd City Council meeting.

So it wouldn't hold up overall moving.

Sounds good project.

Yep.

So we would be that would be good.

Okay, so when would be the next planning commission meeting?

The 22nd.

Yes, on January 22nd.

Okay, and that's why I was saying you could continue to leave the February 3rd date as is and just continue this next meeting and come up with something that will convince us to approve it so it can go to the February 3rd.

Right.

And staff staff will work with you on that.

Staff knows what I think.

They know what I messages we like.

I have one more thing I would like to mention so it may that conversation may happen prior to the next meeting regarding the uh the creek, the water area.

Yes, um my recommendation is that it's noted in the PUD that that is left alone.

I know you already said you're plan on doing that, but if you ever sell the property, somebody else might come along and decide they're gonna do something with it.

So it being identified in the PUD.

I like that that the water shed area will remain.

So if that could be noted.

Yeah, so can staff put that in the recommendation for the next time.

I believe that is already in there.

We plan on the water, the the wetlands are it'll be a uh an easement protected protecting it.

And we have the easement area, not the easement, we have the wetlands area plus a buffer, eight foot buffer around it.

Okay, so we want that cap.

And we also will have some overland uh stormwater easements because we have uh storm water coming from off site.

So we plan you know, we we plan on having those as part of our PUD and part of uh part of the uh plat.

Yeah, and I I really appreciate that.

I'm just thinking about what happens if he ever sells the property or anything like that.

So that's why I just want to make sure it was specifically called out.

It is specifically called out.

Okay, I'm sorry, I missed the owner will protect the defined wetlands.

Okay, um are during construction of occupancy of phase one and we'll secure prior and prior to commencing construction, the proper permits, blah blah blah for phase two.

Okay, yeah, we've discovered areas like that in the past.

We don't want to the next paragraph talks about it being enabled stormwater freely flow through the site as well as as enable protection and free flow of the wetlands area.

Okay.

Thank you.

So now get back to your fence if you do want to continue.

I need to make a mo make a motion.

Well, before you make the motion, let me say this though.

You might I I guess just to keep them from coming back and forth, you don't want to.

I I guess you don't need a full bone out bone engineering design, etc.

to scale everything.

You want to basically a sketch to say this is what I like.

This is what I want to do.

If you can describe that, whether it's a photograph and list of the type of vegetation and put in there, however, you want to do it.

Okay.

Something that's gonna be acceptable for you.

Go ahead.

Are you done?

Can I talk?

Unless I interrupt again.

Well we need to close this though if we're doing a motion, right?

Yeah.

So I just want them to meet with staff and then come back to us on the 22nd so that it can stay on track and go to to council on February 3rd.

Are we all y'all good?

Yes.

We all good with that.

Okay.

Do you understand?

Yeah, you're you're uh you're welcome, and I appreciate your time.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

So I'll close the public hearing.

Was that a motion?

Are you going to make a motion now?

I'm gonna make a motion.

All right.

Well did we have anybody that need wanted to speak on this?

Yeah.

I don't think so.

No.

I just had to make sure that was that was asked before it's missed.

Yeah.

So okay.

Okay.

So I'll make a motion to table this.

Right?

No motion to continue.

To continue this to the January 22nd meeting, so the applicant can meet with staff on the fence.

And so that he can stay on track for counsel on February 3rd.

I'll second.

He's excited.

I was waiting to see if you're going to say put on the consent agenda too.

Oh no.

Mindy Payne.

Yes.

Jonathan Townsend.

Yes.

Daily Clempa.

Yes.

Jason Cohen.

Yes.

Robert Garden.

Yes.

So we'll see you January 22nd right here.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

All right.

Item number seven appeals.

I have none.

Item number eight, general commission business, have none.

Item number nine, remarks, inquiries, and comments.

Oh, sweet.

None for me.

I have a couple, but uh brush I'm going right on.

Do I?

You brought a piece of paper.

Well, I was watching Batmasters on it on the grit channel.

It was getting kind of boring, so all of a sudden I had stuff in my head, so I thought I'd ask, but maybe I'll won't ask them all instead.

But you don't things that come out of our last meeting, and I'm not going to talk about specific, but you know, and I understand what you're saying.

The council can approve, uh approve with conditions, disapprove or deny.

But also they could also send it back to the planning commission, right?

To relook on okay, good.

Because I didn't hear you say that, but I thought that was in there.

Yeah, just it's known as remanding, like we remand this back to planning permission.

Okay, remand.

So when they do, can that happen with here's where I'm questioning that.

Is it applicable to comprehensive plan changes, zoning, conditional use permits, and conditional final plants?

City council can send any issue back to the planning commission.

Okay, the preliminary plan doesn't go to them, but everything else.

Anything that comes to them they can send back.

Okay.

So I just wanted to make sure that that that I wanted to make sure I understood that right.

For example, uh the most common issue is if there were people that weren't allowed to speak at planning commission, they could send it back and say hold these public comments, then send it back to the city council.

Huh?

See, I hadn't heard that one.

So so if that happens, so you open up the public hearing so people that spoke before can actually speak again too.

So yeah.

Okay.

And if those comments change your mind, that might affect the vote.

Okay.

So interesting.

Okay.

So if that happens, let's say, like I think one of the items we had tonight, we had uh there was a comprehensive plan change, it's going to the city council.

And then we had a zoning today, correct?

So let's say that the comprehensive plan got sent back to the planning commission for us to remand.

Is that what you said?

Yes.

Remand.

So the if we had already approved of the zoning to go to the city council, that just gets hung up in the queue.

It's kind of been limbo for a little bit.

Correct.

Okay, or so that doesn't automatically come back to planning commission either.

They can pick and choose what items they want to send back.

And they'll give you instructions on what they want done.

Okay.

If they want you to consider additional evidence, if they want you to hear the applicant back, they want to hear additional public comment if they want additional staff recommendations.

It it could be another.

So most likely staff would recommend if the zoning can was coming in after and they'd already set the comprehensive, you would play hey, say you would tell them that hey, the comprehensive plan has been remat rep remanded, whatever, so we recommend y'all not even hearing it till then later date, right?

Yes.

And city council is supposed to provide detailed instructions when they send something back.

Okay.

As to why they're sending it back and what they'd like to do.

There's not supposed to be any guesswork on the planning commission's part.

Yeah.

That's good.

Okay, keep flipping a coin, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, all right.

So that was good.

We're on the second page.

Well, now we're back on the first page.

The one I wonder if I want to ask or not.

So I want to make sure I'm clear on it.

So we had an item come through here on the tonight on the uh zoning uh Mr.

Reynolds, they had already done their traffic impact study.

And they did they took it upon themselves to do that, correct?

Which is good.

But we don't have we don't require that.

I guess we can PUD, but we don't require that until the plating process.

Is that what you're saying?

No, for traffic studies, that's just bolters bolsters their case if that's an issue.

Yeah.

So if traffic's gonna be an issue for a PUD or a rezoning, that only behooves them to do that in advance.

But when do we take the initiative saying we want you to have that?

We don't do it during the comprehensive plan change, we don't do it during the zoning, right?

At any stage that you feel it's necessary.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we determine that.

Yes.

Okay.

I I was I was thinking it was in there in our engineering design manual.

That's when we required the traffic study.

Yeah, um, there are several different stages.

That's just one of them.

Yeah.

Okay.

So we can initiate.

Yes.

The issue we heard here on the 18th, the city council could say we'd like to see a traffic study before we even do all that after hearing all those public comments.

So then uh our body can actually ask it even at the comprehensive plan change if we want to.

Yeah, if you think if you think that's an issue, yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

I just don't think we've done that before, but it's good to know that we can.

Yeah, there's nothing that says we can't ask for it.

Right.

And it's usually in their best interest to do that in advance so they have all their bases covered.

If they think traffic if traffic's gonna be an issue, it helps to have their homework done before they show up.

Correct.

Yeah.

And and that's what a lot of people said at the last meeting is, and I understand that I mentioned that.

I thought I mentioned it, but you know, a lot of times, but almost all the time, we they don't spend a lot of money into the engineering documents, all that until they get the approval, the zoning, etc.

Why why spend all your money down here or up here when you wait to see if you get it done?

Oh yeah.

But that's definitely a business decision on their part, right when to do it.

So they don't even if we ask for a traffic study, they don't have to do it.

If they really want it, they could move the traffic study.

Yeah, I mean, if it's gonna tip the scale in their favor of getting what they want approved, then yes, they should absolutely do it.

Okay.

So uh so the there was two is two places of assembly that's coming in the last six months.

The first one had a had a zoning hearing in uh June, I believe it was, and then it came another then it came back for the conditional use permit in I don't remember what month that was.

A few months, a couple of months down the road.

So we had two separate motions, and so the other day when we had last month we had a meeting, same is the same same thing place assembly.

We were gonna have one motion and I recommended that we do the same thing do that we did before the the zoning and then the conditional use permit.

Is that the best thing to do that I'm not saying whether I was right or wrong, but should we not have those separate we should absolutely have done it that way?

So that gives city council two different items to consider, right?

But in the future, I guess my point is in the future when things like that come in there, should we I'm not saying like the PUD or the abrogation and stuff like that should be separate, but for the conditional use permit should be separate than the I think so zoning request.

And yeah, I think it would be on a case-by-case basis.

If it's something controversial, absolutely.

Yeah, see if you piggyback them together and you may want the zoning change, we may want the zoning change.

Yeah, but you don't want the specific use permit.

Right.

But at least for the zoning, and if they push on with that and say, ah, we're gonna do something else, you can push on with the zoning and you can actually get it platted and get the right-of-way that way.

Yes.

Or you could have approved the permit and not the rezoning.

Yep.

Yeah.

So that's the other thing.

On a conditional use permit, it actually is not a zone specif a low zoning district specific.

It could be any of those.

Correct.

Yep.

Right.

You explained that to them too.

I tried maybe, but uh yeah.

We just we did discuss it.

Yeah, but they probably didn't.

Uh so on the if you go through the zoning nuance and then you look at these requirements for the conditional use permit.

Kind of strange in there anyway, but so on approving of a conditional use permit, can I guess we could require them to come back with the traffic now that you said the traffic study, but we could require them to do things like that now?

Yes.

Okay.

And traffic was one of the issues cited, and they may still do a traffic study before city council.

Right.

I don't know if they're working on one or not.

They may but if somebody came in through this again, we could actually say, okay, well, we're not gonna hear this.

We want you to do a traffic study, right?

So we can do that.

And I would like to think if that were an issue, they would do that beforehand.

So let me ask the question.

Could could we have the other night said approved the CG zoning and then said the other item we would like for you to do a traffic study and then come back absolutely, but then all the the people would have come back too.

Yeah, I'm sure they would have.

Yeah, but I'm just saying for anything, but yeah, I think for the purposes of efficiency, I think you guys did the right way.

Right.

So oh well, I'm not questioning what we did.

I'm just looking for the future.

But so since you just said that though, if if you did it like kind of what you and J were mentioned, then could I not have closed the public or the chair closed the public hearing and then you don't have to open it the second time.

Yeah, but given that it was uh of a big public interest, I think there would have been an expectation that'd be our best interest to open it back down.

But we're not required to, right?

Correct.

But the smart thing to do would have been to open it back up.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I think I had one more.

But if if traffic's an issue, I think we'll know that in advance.

Right.

That's something that should be discussed before they come up here.

So well, and see, and if you look back at both the two last places of assembly, we had staff did not present us with traffic is a problem.

With with Harvest Church or with the Islamic Center.

So I think that was just issues that the public speakers brought up.

Okay.

It was oh, and I think I'm asked this last time, Jane, but so much is going on.

I think you answered it, but I want to make sure I'm clear on it again.

Zoning is not always conditional on no.

Yeah, zoning is not always conditional on plating, correct?

Sometimes we zone, we'll rezone a property and we do ask for plating, sometimes we don't.

My understanding is it is required.

It I think we got rid of that in the new ordinance.

Which is why it's it doesn't come into effect until you plat.

Until you plot.

Used to be the case.

Oh, so now we zone and whether we plant or not, yes.

And I think maybe we have left it in a lot of staff reports because it was just already there.

Okay.

Um subject to plating is very common language in pretty much every staff.

So on determining whether an item needs to be platted or not.

City staff comes up with that, says, uh, we think this property needs to be platted based on what that it was not platted.

B for right-of-way and utility easements.

So if we have our if we have if I the right-of-ways already identified, we have no the right-of-way we already got the utilities, the easements and everything's identified, no reason to plat it, right?

Even for the rest of the property.

Depends on the property.

Right.

I think Farhad wants to weigh in.

Come on up, Mr.

Farhad.

Here comes the library.

Come on up, Farhard.

Platteing uh approving zoning subject to plating was in effect from 1984 till 2025.

Our current code does not require that.

But the reason for plating is utilities right-of-way, as well as to establish the topography of the property.

Because the plat determines the address of the property, the finished floor elevations, how high the buildings can be or or not be.

It also uh platten also addresses things like limits and all access and curb cuts.

So the plating has multiple uh functions that uh most large type uses should be in our opinion, and our staff's opinion should be plat uh platted.

And I'm not saying not to do it.

I I just want to know when so basically you can change the zoning of a plot of land, but you can't start building or doing anything on that unless you get until you get it platted.

There are four substantial steps in the development process.

First starts with the annexation of whose jurisdiction the property is in.

The second step is zoning, the third step is plating.

The fourth step is the site plan of the project before the building permit.

And I guess you can say the building permit would be the last or the fifth step.

So the process and the comp plan and our codes has been identified, the plating is the second or third step in the development process.

So therefore we don't need to say condition to plating, because we already do that anyways.

It has to be platted before they even think about getting a permit.

The council and the planning commission discussed it very heavily in the last two, three years when we were having the zoning discussion because we've had the plating requirement since the 80s, but it was done at the time when it was necessary, and we felt that now after so many years it it doesn't serve a purpose.

The functionality of it is that most property sales and business investment decisions are made based on your zoning map.

Yeah, not the zoning map is changed in the previous code, was changed after the property was platted, which caused confusion on property values.

So now the zoning is changed when the city council approves an ordinance, regardless of the platter.

Yeah.

So the process has all these steps.

Approving the zoning ordinance is a sub step, which was a previous ordinance, it was before the plating stage.

Sorry, after the planning stage.

Now it is before the platting stage.

Which makes sense.

So if if one was to look at a property, if they were to just go online and look at our map, and they would know what their property is zoned.

So previously, platting did not have a time limit, unless in certain cases there were two years or four years.

But most general applications did not have a time limit.

So you could have a zoning approved for a number of years, but the map is not changed.

And there have been issues pertaining to that in other communities.

That's why the consultants brought this topic to the planning commission and council, which was changed in our last update.

So when we do a zone and we do the plating, zones gonna zoning, change zoning is gonna stay the change of zoning, right?

But a PUD could actually expire, right, after two years or whatever, and then fall back to the underlying zoning, correct?

Yes, PUD has a time limit with extensions.

So what about the plating?

How does the plating tie to the PUD?

Well, the PUD is valid till it is platted or till the time frame expires, whichever comes for uh last.

So the PUD is not the PUD till it's platted.

There was a time uh and the PUD PUD itself time limit is no longer in our current code.

So I don't remember.

I guess we have made motions of PUD subject to plating.

I guess we have done that.

If I guess if the motion from the planning commission and council is subject to platten, then that is part of the PUD.

And then there will be an expiration date if the property is not platted within that time frame.

Two two of the cases tonight, I believe, fell in that category from many years ago.

There were no PUDs on that site that expired long time ago because their properties remain on the So I hope I'm not wasting everybody's time.

But so when you got the PUD and you have the plat and you have a time limit, right?

So they don't plat.

Let's say they plat.

When they if they plat the PUD, does that mean the time they've met the time expiration date?

Once the platform is if they don't start construction for a long time.

Correct.

Once the property is platted, the PUD is in effect until the council changes the POD.

So that's why you may not see something being built for another two years or we have large PUDs like uh all our golf course PUDs that are done in phases, right?

And there takes 10 years, sometimes more, 15 years to do all of the phases of the PUD.

Sorry, it's educational for me too.

So you guys don't because you'll deal with it every day.

All right, thanks, Farha.

Any other discussions?

Yes, ready for a motion.

Move to adjourn.

Second.

And most second roll call vote.

Mindy Payne, yes.

Jonathan Townsend, yes.

Jaley Clempa, yes.

Jason Cohen, yes, Robert Gornson.

Yes.

Thanks, everybody.

See you next time.