Can Commissioners please check in?

Yeah.

Two hours without guilties on all three.

I'll bring the Butte Silver Bow Council of Commissioners meeting to order for Wednesday, August 13th, 2025.

Can we please have a roll call?

One presiding, nine present, two absent.

Okay, thank you.

Please let the record reflect Commissioner Fisher and Commissioner Mankins are excused from tonight's meeting.

Commissioner Walker, would you please lead us in the prayer and the pledge?

Next item on tonight's agenda is any public comment on any items on the agenda.

If there's any member of the public that would like to speak on any items on the agenda now would be your opportunity.

Welcome.

Please state your name and address for the record and the communication that you're going to talk about.

We do ask that you keep it within three minutes.

My name is Mitzi Rosillion.

I live at 815 West Granite, and I'm commenting on communication 2025 420, which is a communication regarding 305 West Mercury.

I am a tenant at 305 West Mercury, and I have been for 13 years.

When here hearing about this request for proposals to purchase, I was concerned because the tenants had been told by staff a year and a half ago when there was no longer going to be any on-site management, that the tenants would have the opportunity to discuss with staff any major changes that were going to happen in the operation and management of the facility.

Since we were not given that opportunity, I'm here to give you my thoughts and my concerns in this particular venue.

First, I'm my concern has to do with me being a Butte Silverbow property man um taxpayer, not only for personal property, but also including the property taxes that my business in the incubator pays on the space that it rents from Butte Silverbow.

It's my opinion that the market analysis of the property is flawed, and um be because it's based on current rents paid and comps, of which I think there are few comps in this community, giving the size of this particular facility and its condition.

The minimum bid should be set much higher, I believe.

As a longtime renter, I have paid um a very modest wage that has had only one increase in the last two years, and it's considerably under the rent that would have been required elsewhere in this community to the tune of half or maybe even less than that of what it would be in another facility in our community.

So I think because it's based on current the market analysis or the market analysis was spent on based partially on current rents, that is a false um con comparison.

During this property, for example, uh during this time I have a residential property that I um co-own, and one of the units has gone up almost half in the same period of time.

But there's no such thing has happened with the tenants at our particular building.

Given that the market analysis is not based on comparable office space prices in our town, I believe.

It's my opinion that the base for the property should be double what it currently is suggested in the RFP, namely it should be one million dollars.

Further, because Butte Silverbow replaced the entire heating system in the building eight years ago to the tune of one million dollars.

It is not unreasonable for the taxpayers to expect to receive a higher price.

Second, the four criteria listed to be considered in the proposal of evaluation, maybe noble, but I cannot imagine how those goals will be made part of a deed of transfer or enforced in any way whatsoever.

So regarding the current leases, I believe all the leases that are currently in effect are for one year.

I know that my lease expires in April.

So should the new owner decide to essentially vacate the entire building, and I'm not saying they would, but there's no way we can tell.

And as someone who has a lot of stuff, um, I'm telling you, other people in the building have a lot of stuff.

And so that um clause is really does not do any direct benefit to the tenants going forward, in my opinion.

Um regarding the encouragement of small business development, I would say that Butte Silverbow has done nothing in regard in that regard except for charging the small amount for rent and having a copy machine in the building for over the past 13 years.

And if we're expecting the new owner to do this, seems disingenuous when Butte Silverbow has not done it itself.

Ms.

Rosillion, I just if you could um I'll just skip to the part about I want you to know something about some of the tenants that are in the building right now.

I believe there are 15 mental health counselors in the building, Silverboat Developmental Disabilities Office, and Commercial Kitchen, the County Extension Office, Coroner's Office, and three or four offices that are occupied by state agencies.

At a time and society when we should be and are now encouraging access to mental health care and supporting those with developmental disabilities by selling this property.

We may be taking we may be taking away those opportunities depending on who purchased the building, how much the rent will be raised, and um the current tenants' appetite for disruption.

Perhaps it's just a small part of the story, but I trust you will consider this when you deliberate issuing the RFP for the sale 305 West Mercury.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Rosillion.

Is there any other member of the public that would like to speak on any item on tonight's agenda?

Welcome.

Please state your name and address for the record and the communication that you refer are referring to.

Um I see communication number one, 2025-37.

Um Metro Seward is going to be having new rates.

Uh is um established.

Is that going to take into account uh today's uh sewer line explosion?

Just kidding.

Um but uh communication 2025-318.

Um what specific noxious weeds are present that need to be sprayed and killed.

That's unclear.

I'd like to know more.

I believe that's all I have tonight.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other member of the public that would like to speak on any item on tonight's agenda.

Please state your name and address for the record, and which communication you're talking about.

There we go.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Jim Cambridge, 2835 White Boulevard Butte, Montana.

I'd just like to respond a little bit from the business development center since uh I go I'm probably way older than everybody in here, except maybe a few people, not many, but uh I go back to I was the first director of the business development center when it was developed back in 1986 and 80 uh seven is when we actually opened.

It was a time in Butte, as we all know, when we were about 21 percent on employment, entrepreneurship was the big deal, and 90 percent of small businesses failed within the first five years.

We joined forces with EDA and we went to the diocese of Helena at the time.

We got the building for one dollar, and we turned one dollar into a million dollars of EDA money.

In less than five years, we created over one hundred and thirty jobs in that facility.

And it was one of the projects used for uh the All America Cities project.

It was one of the three projects we used back in 1980 uh 88.

I say only that because it was all about you getting small businesses started up and uses shared services, word processing, telephone, copying services.

So businesses weren't encumbered by different overheads.

We also used to have on Tuesdays and Thursday nights, we had classes from Montana Tech.

Our board members were Paul Schmeckel, Dennis Washington, Lindsay Norman, the head of the Department of Commerce.

They were my board of directors at that time.

They were pretty heavy hitters at the time, and we wanted to make things happen.

And they did.

I think I really want to give you just a little bit of background because I don't think it's operated in that vein since the last board uh last executive director who was Roadie Holman.

I think you all know who Roadie is.

So uh it's kind of been out of its if out of its uh process for about 25 years and not doing what it was supposed to be doing, and it becomes a white elephant, and it would probably be a good idea to move it forward, put it out on a developer, use it for the best highest beneficial use, get it on the tax rolls, and it makes a lot of sense to do it since it's not operating as a true incubator anymore.

So thank you for your time.

Okay.

Any questions?

Feel free to call me anytime.

Thank you, Mr.

Cambich.

Is there any other member of the public that would like to speak on any items on tonight's agenda?

Now would be your opportunity.

Okay.

Seeing none, I will move to the report of the chair.

Um, as everyone knows, we have an issue going on in Butte Silver Bow right now with our potable water system.

I have asked Director Neary to kind of sit in as is the chair report just to make sure that we get as much information that we have out to the public at this time.

So Director Neary.

Uh thank you, Chairman Morgan.

For the record, I'm Mark Neary Public Works Director.

Um today about 3:30.

Uh I received a phone call from Montana Resources that they had uh they thought they had cross-contaminated our potable water system.

Uh a quick rundown is they used their process water to wash under their floors and in their in their buildings, and they were trying to uh pressurize a line to wash down the secondary crusher higher floors than they usually do.

So they tied our our uh a fire hydrant to the line to boost the pressure, which is fine.

They're metered, they pay for the water, and and I and I I think it might be something that happens quite often, but there was uh uh high pressure process line valve was opened on accident, which was about 135 PSI.

Our system down there was probably 65 to 70, so it overpressured and went back into our system.

As soon as I found out, we started flushing hydrants, you know, at the mine, right across the street from the mine, and kept on moving out.

There was uh turbidity in the water, and we kept on flushing and kept moving away till we found clean water with a chlorine residual, and we kept flushing all the hydrants that had any contamination into it until we had a chlorine residual, which means we had clean water to that area.

We reached out to DEQ.

Jim Keenan, our uh water plant superintendent reached out to DEQ, told them what happened, and they they want us to enforce a do not consume order.

Um right now we have uh one of our water treatment plant operators is in is in Helena picking up 125 sample bottles that the state and the lab rounded up for us, and we'll start first thing in the morning doing uh samples away from the area and you know, making sure that we have clean water everywhere.

The turnaround time on a sample could be up to 24 hours.

So the samples that we have today will go into the lab in the morning, including the the contaminated waters so we know what we're dealing with, what anybody has any worries about because we're not sure.

You know, I don't know the timeline of when the do not consume order will be lifted.

We'll keep people posted as we hear information coming in, but right now we feel good that we have flushed the system and we have the contamination out, but we don't know that until we get samples back.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr.

Neary.

Uh also on update, I'm not going to allow questions or banter back and forth just because it is the report of the chair, but commissioner chief executive gallagher, um, any report as well would be great.

Yeah, um Chairman Morgan, commissioners.

I just wanted to report out that I've reached out to Harrington Pepsi.

Um, we're trying to get uh as much water as we can delivered to the uh Butte Civic Center.

Um they they say that they're going through a lot of water right now.

I think that the the public is out consuming a lot of the the products for water currently.

Uh Lisa Carey at the uh EOC is also reaching out to the state to have water delivered to the Civic Center.

We don't have that set up completely yet.

We will make an announcement that the public can come down and pick up the water, but we don't have the time and and when they can start coming down to pick that up, but we are making a plan so that the public can come and pick up water so that during this time when the you can't consume, so that means brushing your teeth, can't boil the water.

You can you can bathe in it, but uh everything else is kind of off the table until we get DEQ's approval to say that the water is good.

So I just wanted to let the public know and let the commissioners know that we we are working on a plan to distribute water for the public.

Thank you.

Mr.

Neary, just as this is a public information thing, what what is the best resource for the public to look at for updates on this particular issue?

Chairman Morgan, I believe on our website, Jason Parrish put it out, and I believe that is our only real source of information.

Uh he also reports to the media too.

So I think that's that's how we'll keep everybody informed.

Thank you.

All right.

That's all I have to report for tonight.

Moving on to Section 1, bid openings, public hearings and/or presentations.

Looks like we do have three public hearings tonight.

We have uh communication 2025 371, 2025 372, and 2025 373.

Uh County Attorney Enruth, do we have proof of publication?

Chairman Morgan, Commissioners, yes, we have proof of publication on all three communications.

Okay, thank you.

I'll move on to number one communication 2025 371.

Karen Hassler, Finance and Budget Director requesting Council of Commissioners authorization to schedule a public hearing to establish the user rate for Metro Sewer.

The public hearing will begin on August 13th and be continued until the Council of Commissioners sets a date to adopt the fiscal year 2026 final budget and fix the rate.

Uh do we have a staff report from Director Umsler?

Thank you, Chairman Morgan, members of council.

Um tonight the public the purpose of this first public hearing is to hear public comment on the proposed rate increase for the solid um waste collection services.

The proposed increase is 20 percent and it equates to an increase of 21 dollars and thirty cents annually for each property within the solid waste collection district.

The increase is necessary to cover the cost of the contracted services for solid waste collection in the district.

The solid waste collection fees are assessed according to Butte Silver Boat Ordinance 131260, and user fees are assessed on the property tax bills.

The last increase for solid waste collection services was in 2020.

Thank you, Director Hassler.

Do any of the commissioners have any questions?

Okay.

Seeing none, I will open the public hearing for communication 2025 371 and would ask for any proponents.

Now would be the opportunity if you'd like to speak as a proponent.

Second call for proponent.

Please state your name and address for the record.

My name is Reddy Frost, 2000 Roberts Avenue.

Um and I'm a proponent of this.

If uh we get some reasonable returns to our sewers um infrastructure upgrades and such, that would be nice to see instead of just sinking into the ground and being potholes at street corners.

That's that's not a fun time.

But yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you.

Third and final call for proponents.

I would I would move on to opponents.

If there's any member of the public that would like to speak in opposition to communication 2025-371 now would be your opportunity.

Oh, not metro sewer.

Good good catch.

Uh we will restart that public hearing from from the scratch.

We're talking about communication 25-371 regarding the metro sewer increase.

I'll just reread the caption.

Uh Karen Hassler, Finance and Budget Director requesting council of commissioners' authorization to schedule a public hearing to establish the user rate for Metro Sewer.

Public hearing will be on August 13th, 2025 and be continued until the Council of Commissioners sets a date to adopt the fiscal year 26 final budget and fix the rate.

Director Hassler.

Thank you, Commissioner Morgan, members of council.

Uh the purpose of this public hearing is to hear public comment on the proposed rate increase for Metro sewer sewer services.

This proposed increase of three percent equates to an increase of three dollars and fifty-two cents annually per unit.

Single family residents are assessed three units, and therefore we'll see an increase of ten dollars and fifty-seven cents annually.

Multifamily residences and commercial properties will also see an increase of three percent or three dollars and fifty-two cents per unit assessed.

Multifamily residential properties and commercial properties vary on the number of pro of units assessed.

A schedule of base units for customers can be found in Butte Silver Boat Ordinance 13-8-40.

The user fees are also assessed on the 2025 property tax bills.

As described in Montana Code annotated section 75-6-326, the finance and budget department and public works department metro sewer division review the rates and fees of the Metro Service Metro Sewer Division each fiscal year to determine if the rates will pay the cost for operation improvements and maintenance of the Metro sewer treatment and collection system, provide an adequate depreciation fund, create responsible reserves for enumerated purposes, and allow for miscellaneous and emergency or unforeseen expenses.

The Metro Sewer Division must also comply with bond covenants related to debt issued in 2014, 15 and 2016 to cover more than 35 34 million dollars in mandated facility upgrades.

The debt service ratio is 110%.

And it has been determined that current rate schedules do not produce sufficient revenue to meet the obligations of the Metro Sewer Division.

The rate increase is necessary to ensure that ongoing operations are compliant with state and federal regulations and to provide a reliable service and to achieve the required debt service coverage per our bond covenants.

Okay.

Thank you, Director Hassler.

Is there any questions from the commissioners on this communication?

Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Uh, just a quick clarification for Director Hassler.

Uh this if these rates take effect, these changes take effect, these will be on the 2025 tax bills or they will be on the 2026 tax bills.

Director Hassler.

Uh Chairman Morgan, uh, Commissioner O'Leary.

Uh it is for tax year 2025, and so it is for fiscal year 2026.

So our tax year 2025 bills will go out uh in October, early November, but it is for our fiscal year 2026.

So it will be effective for the next immediate tax year tax billing.

Follow up.

No.

Any other questions from the commissioners on this communication?

Okay.

Seeing none, I will open the public hearing for communication 2025-371 regarding Metro Sewer.

I would ask for any proponents.

If there's a member of the public that would like to speak as a proponent, now would be your opportunity.

Ready for Oz, 2000 Roberts Avenue.

Uh I'm a proponent of this if it upgrades the infrastructure we currently have in Butte.

Uh so that the rates for sewer runoff aren't sinking below the level of the street, that'd be that'd be great.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Second call for proponents.

Third and final call for proponents.

Seeing none, I'll move on to opponents.

If there's a member of the public that would like to speak in opposition to communication 25371, now would be your opportunity.

Second call for opponents.

Third and final call for opponents.

Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing for communication 2025 371.

Number two, can I thank you, uh, Vice Chair Thatcher.

I will not be closing the communication 25371 as we are leaving these open until the final adoption of the budget.

So if the member of the public would like to speak, they should still have the opportunity.

So just moving on to communication 2025-372.

Karen Hassler, Finance and Budget Director requesting Council of Commissioners' authorization to schedule a public hearing on August 13th, 2025 to discuss a rate increase for the solid waste collection district fees to cover the cost of contracted services with McGree Corporation.

Director Hassler.

Communication 25372.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan, members of council.

Um again, the purpose of this public hearing is to take public comment on the proposed rate increase for solid waste collection services.

The proposed increase of 20 percent equates to an increase of 21 dollars and thirty cents annually for each property within the solid waste collection district.

The increase is necessary to cover the cost of contracted services for the solid waste collection.

Solid waste collection fees are assessed according to Butte Silver Boat ordinance 131260, and user fees will be assessed on the 2025 property tax bills.

The current rate for solid waste collection is 10650.

The proposed rate would bring it to 127.87 or 80 cents annually.

Thank you, Director Hassler.

Is there any questions from the commissioners on this communication?

All right.

Seeing none, I'll open the public hearing and ask for any proponents.

There's a member of the public that would like to speak as a proponent for communication 25372.

Now would be your opportunity.

Please state your name and address for the record.

I'm a proponent for this.

The folks at McGrees always do a good job and are very personable over the phone.

And uh I think they're they're doing good for Butte Silver Bow.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Second call for proponents.

Third and final call for proponents.

Okay, at this time I'll move to opponents for communication 25372.

There's a member of the public that would like to speak in opposition.

Now would be your opportunity.

Second call for opponents.

Third and final call for opponents.

Seeing none, we'll continue to leave this public hearing open as well.

Moving on to number three, communication 25373.

Karen Hassler, Finance and Budget Director requesting Council of Commissioners' authorization to schedule a public hearing on August 13th, 2025 for the adoption of the fiscal year 26 budget and establish the user rates for stormwater system, solid waste disposal and lighting and fire hydrant hydrant districts.

The public hearing will continue until the council of commissioners sets a date to adopt the fiscal year 26 final budget and fix the rates and levies.

Director Hassler.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan, members of council.

Tonight we are here to take any public comment regarding the fiscal year 2026 budget for Butte Silver Bow.

As discussed last week, we had received our certified values for uh Butte Silver Bow.

They came in roughly nine nine percent less than the prior fiscal year.

Um before you this evening, and we can discuss this later also, um, but we have a very preliminary um resource and requirement schedule for the 2026 tax supported budget.

Um at this time, we are anticipating a total mill levy of 370.

Um last year's mills, the number of mills that were levied were 301.75.

So this is a pretty significant increase.

Um, but as we can discuss later in the evening, we have done some analysis based on properties um the prior year's taxable value, the current year's taxable value, and what that could potentially look like for our residential property owners and how that could potentially affect centrally assessed and our commercial businesses in the community as well.

Um but for this evening um this public hearing is to take any public comment regarding the preliminary budget as presented.

Okay, is there any questions from the commissioners?

Commissioner Anderson, thank you very much, Chairman Morgan.

Uh you mentioned that the mills would be 370.

Do you have the mill value?

Director Hassler.

Uh thank you, Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Anderson.

Um, the current mill value for the countywide um taxing jurisdiction is 91 million nine hundred and twenty-seven thousand nine hundred and seventy-one dollars.

So you divide that by a thousand to get the mill, and that's ninety-one thousand nine hundred and twenty-seven.

Thank you.

Follow-up, Commissioner Anderson.

No.

Okay.

Any other questions from the commissioners?

All right.

Seeing none, I'll open the public hearing for communication 25373.

I would ask for any proponents.

If there's a member of the public that would like to speak as a proponent, now would be your opportunity.

Please state your name and address for the record.

Ready for Oz, 2000 Roberts Avenue.

I'm in favor of this.

I know lots of people really hate the increase in their tax bills at the end of the day, but hopefully all this money goes to improvements for Butte to a better future for all of us.

And that's what we need.

So it is what it is.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Second call for proponents.

Third and final call for proponents.

Now looking for opponents for communication 25373.

There's a member of the public that would like to speak in opposition.

Now would be your opportunity.

Second call for opponents.

Seeing none, I'll move on or will continue continue to leave this open pending the adoption of the fiscal budget later in the month.

Moving on to section two communications.

Communication number one 25249.

Patty and Chris Salmanson requesting council commissioners' approval to purchase a portion of land owned by Butte Silver Bow, which is adjacent to their property located at 17 Tullomore Street.

There was a land sales meeting yesterday, August 12th at 130.

And they will be reporting back to this council.

They'll be submitting new communications with their recommendations as soon as they have them for us to consider.

So we'll continue to hold this in abeyance until we get their their recommendation from the land sales committee.

Any questions?

Okay.

See so we'll continue to hold communication 2025-249 in abeyance.

Communication number two, number 25318, Corey Bigger, 65 Orofino Gulch Road, Bue, Montana, requesting council of commissioners to approve the purchase land owned by Butte Silver Boat north of Orofino Road and east of Brown's Gulch Road.

The primary goal of acquiring the property would be to fence it off and use for livestock and to spray and treat the property to control Noxis weeds that are present.

This is similar to the previous communication.

There was a land sales meeting yesterday at 130, and we were just awaiting their recommendation to be submitted to this council.

So we'll continue to hold this in abeyance waiting their recommendation.

Number three, communication 2025 370, Karen Hassler, Finance and Budget Director requesting Council of Commissioners' authorization to schedule a presentation of August 6, 2025 agenda to make a presentation on the fiscal year 2026 budget.

Oh Director Hassler, thank you, Chairman Morgan, members of council.

Um before you tonight is a packet.

Um as I had mentioned earlier that has a list of uh amendments that have been made to the budget, um, either adjusting the request up for the appropriation or decreasing um based on either cuts to grant funding or projects that have expended, and we just need to reduce the amount of budget authority available.

Um I can briefly touch on some of the the larger um adjustments here.

Um the first being changes to the sheriff's budget for the law enforcement.

We just recently um negotiated their contract, which was approved, and in that contract there were um their dispatchers previously worked 1,946 hours while the remainder of the law enforcement worked 2,184.

So they worked a schedule, I believe that was eight or six shifts of eight hours and then had three off.

Um their request in through the negotiation was to also work 12-hour shifts as the rest of the law enforcement division does.

Um that request in itself requires a 12 percent increase in their salaries and wages.

Um they are working those hours.

It's not just um an increase or a pay raise, it's an increase in the number of hours, um, which also will help them in the staffing of their 911 dispatch department.

So there is an increase of salaries and wages and employer provided benefits.

Altogether there it's about 115,000 dollars.

All of that is not related to um just the dispatch.

There is also a reclassification of a position that was a probationary officer that was reclassified to a detective, and that's a considerable increase.

So that makes up between weight salaries and wages and benefits, $115,000 there.

The Sheriff's Department also has an increase of $57,000 for continued subscription for cell phone evidence recovery system.

This had previously been a question in one of our finance and budget meetings about how often this is really used in that department and how necessary it is.

But I think when we see recent headlines of people in our community who are being prosecuted for crimes that are really unmentionable in this arena that they said that they use those that system, and I think that you know $57,000 to protect our community from that type of crime is an amount that is well spent.

We have a jail-based services, which is a heart grant, was recently cut by almost $136,000.

So we have a decrease in the expenditure and also an offsetting decrease in the amount of revenue that we expect to receive for that.

Our county attorney's office, there was a reclassification of a position that was initially added this year that was a clerk that has been reclassified as a legal assistant.

So there is an additional cost for wages and benefits.

This previously had been budgeted in the local and tribal consistency fund.

We'll see a decrease down below, but it has been determined that the parking garage, the services there, having security services there makes it a safer government building for people to be in people feel safer.

We have less instances of crime and reports of nonsense going on there.

So again, um I know Chief Executive Gallagher has really focused the use of these local option marijuana tax funds in ways that benefit the community to help offset maybe the purchase, you know, the way that this revenue is derived.

So again, um a good use of funding there.

Um otherwise, the next big one is the stormwater at the bottom.

The rest are are pretty minimal.

Um, a stormwater improvements other than buildings has also been decreased by $500,000 just to cover projects that were previously budgeted but have since are either in the process of being completed or being completed or have been completed, such as the Centerville stormwater retaining wall and the Westside Stormwater project, West Side Stormwater Improvement Project.

So those are amendments.

We will continue to see those as we balance out our grant budgets.

We are just saying we're recognizing the funds that were spent through the end of the year and balancing their budgets and related revenues.

This is very preliminary.

This is based on appropriations for just our tax supported funds.

There are pages of funds listed in Butte Silver Bow under the resource and requirement.

This is tax supported and our enterprise funds, so that's water, metro, sewer, landfill, stormwater, are funds that operate more like a business.

At this time, it is in balance.

The total levy is 370 mils that would be required to be levied to balance the budget.

So last year I had mentioned we were at 31.75, so that's an increase of 25% nearly.

We selected some properties in our community, no names associated here, no parcel numbers.

Just to look at what the Department of Revenue had assessed their property as market value and taxable value in fiscal year 25, compared them to fiscal year 26, and also looked at the taxable tier that they will fall in.

The current taxable value is 1,873.

When you compare last year's number of mills levied to this year's number of mills levied, it is actually a decrease in the number in the amount of revenue of tax revenue that would be generated.

It would be a decrease of 201.

And I have to remind you all that this is only Butte Silver Bows portion of the taxes when the tax bill goes out, roughly half is related to the school district, and we have no control or no say, we just levy the number of mills.

So when people take into account their tax bill, they I think associate it completely with the county and the services that we provide, but roughly half of it is related to the number of mills that are levied by the school district.

Initially it had a market value last year of $550,000.

In fiscal year 26, the market value went up to $616,000, again a 12% increase, but the taxable value went down by 27%.

So the taxable value last year was 7,425.

In fiscal year 26, the taxable value is 5,416.

Again, when you look at the number of mills levied last year compared to this year, it is actually a decrease in the tax revenue that will be generated through Butte Silver Bow by 236.57 cents.

So we have a formula.

If anybody, this is just in an Excel spreadsheet.

If anybody wishes to see how we calculate these, um happy to share that.

So pretty minimal in comparison to some of the other decreases that would we would see in properties across our community.

Thank you, Director Hasler.

Just so we're all on the same page.

So this communication, these amendments would be added to the budget, and then when this council takes a final vote on the budget, these would be included in that number.

And if they wanted to strike any of these or change these around, they would have that opportunity before they vote on the final budget.

Is that correct?

Chairman Morgan, members of council, that is correct.

There is an opportunity.

If if there are changes that are made to any of the amendments, we would need an opportunity to recalculate our resource and requirement schedule in order to ensure that we have a balanced budget prior to it being adopted.

Okay.

Thank you.

Does any of the commissioners have any questions?

Commissioner Callahan.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Ms.

Hasler, I asked a question here a couple weeks ago about the sheet you gave us, you had like six or eight different categories that went from a 145% to 90 percent.

And I my question was why such a wide range in one community?

And I believe your answer to me was the community that the area that it dropped in was the business area on the south end of town.

And you said that their uh their uh equipment tax has dropped because each year they they get a less value.

Is that part of a property tax, the equipment tax?

Director Hassler.

Uh Chairman Morgan, uh, Commissioner Callahan, yes, it is part.

It's the business equipment tax.

Um one other thing that I should mention as well is on centrally assessed, generally their reappraisals are done on the same schedule as our residential properties.

This year we were notified that they will be done on the opposing year.

So this year there is no change in the centrally assessed market value, but that's just centrally assessed business equipment tax is not part of centrally assessed.

So centrally assessed is Northwestern Energy, um, railroad, telecoms, any uh business that has assets that stretch beyond our county lines.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Okay, seeing none, Director Hassler, what would be your recommendation for this communication?

Do you want to just leave it open just so we can continue to add amendments as we go through it?

Okay.

Yes, thank you.

I see a nod, so I'll I'll let you acknowledge my question.

Uh Commissioner Morgan, Chairman Morgan, yes, I would like to keep this open and open for discussion until adoption of the amended budget.

Okay.

Thank you.

So we'll continue to hold this in abeyance till the adoption of the preliminary budget.

Moving on to number four.

Is that right?

Yep.

Communication 25371, Karen Hassler Finance and Budget Director requesting Council of Commissioners' authorization to schedule a public hearing to establish the user rate for Metro Sewer.

The public hearing will begin on August 13th, 25 and continued until the council of commissioner sets a date to adopt the fiscal year 2026 final budget and fix the rate.

We'll continue to hold this in abeyance just so it's on our agenda for any public comment to be received.

Number five, communication 25372, Karen Hassler, Finance and Budget Director requesting Council of Commissioners' authorization to schedule a public hearing on August 13, 2025 to discuss rate increase for the solid waste collection district fees to cover the cost of contracted services with McGree Corporation.

We'll continue to hold this in abeyance as well until the adoption of the preliminary budget.

Number six, communication 2025 373, Karen Hassler, Finance and Budget Director requesting Council of Commissioners' authorization to schedule a public hearing on August 13th, 2025 for the adoption of the fiscal year 26 budget and establish the user rates for the storm water system, solid waste disposal, and lighting fire hydrant district.

The public hearing will be continued until the council of commissioner sets to adopt a date of the fiscal year 26 final budget and fix the rates and levies.

We'll continue to hold this in abeyance pending the adoption of the preliminary budget.

Number seven, 2025 395, Colleen Boyle, 2801 Porter Street, Butte, Montana, requesting Council of Commissioners to look into a house located at 2645 Amherst Butte, Montana, regarding their aggressive dogs who were out of the yard and were threatening children in the neighborhood.

I did ask Director Hogart to come to the council meeting if she had an update for this.

Uh and I see her in the audience.

So Director Hogarth.

Chairman Morgan, Commissioners.

I do not have an update because I don't have a complaint from Miss Boyle on this.

And I've gone through all of our officers' daily logs.

And here's what I know.

We have had calls on this property that I'm not saying that.

In 2000, in March of 2014, we had an aggressive dog complaint.

There was nobody, there was no known person that made the complaint.

And then again on October 31st, we had an of 2014, we had an aggressive dog complaint.

Also, no name given.

We did address it, and the owner, which was issued two citations.

Same owner that lives there now.

And again in 719 of 2023, we had a dog at large at that address.

The dog was seen coming out of the side door without an owner.

JD Santifer, our officer, stopped the dog and the owner and advised him to keep the dog securely secured properly.

Again on 3.8 of 2024.

We had our officer arrived at Amherst where he was called by two concerned citizens, good Samaritans.

A dog was hit by a car and was killed.

The two individuals that called pulled the dog off of the street.

The dog belonged to the residence at uh 2645 Amherst.

Our officer knocked on the door, had a stern conversation with a woman that finally came out of the address.

She said the dog had they knew the dog had been hit and killed, but the owner was disabled and was very upset.

JD discussed the options for cremation services and took the dog to our shelter and put it where we put dogs that are hit by cars and waited for them to decide what to do with it.

Ultimately, they didn't do anything with it, and we ended up doing a communal cremation.

On 424 of 2024, we received a call from Colleen Boyle at 1050 a.m.

regarding aggressive dog.

Um our officer, or excuse me, um at 424 of 2024, 1025 a.m.

Colleen Boyle did report that there were five dogs at the residence.

She witnessed some of the dogs being aggressive and have gone after people.

Um and left nobody answered the door, so he left a door of notice for them to contact animal control.

Nobody reported back to animal control.

They drove by several times, could not get anybody to answer.

Um gates are locked with padlocks.

Um I'll go into it further in just a bit.

We received another call from a person by the name of John, no phone number on 5.3 of 2024 at 1005 a.m.

saying that there were too many dogs in the yard.

No other information.

Again, Joe Shagna left a door, not a door, but he left it on the gate for them to contact us.

Um there's n again, nobody responded.

On 613 of 2024, at 11, I only have a phone number for the person that reported this.

We had a report to please do a welfare check on a pit bull that had puppies and appeared to be neglected.

Several dogs at the residence, horrible conditions.

On we also received a barking complaint during that time on 617.

Um, JD Sanifer at for an um an officer that we had at where it was in training at the time, Lauren Alt stopped at the residence at 407.

There was no one home.

Dogs could be heard inside.

Um he was able to knock on the door and left a notice regarding the complaint.

On 6.18 of 2024, Melinda, I can't pronounce her last name, Brazinsunski, called back to our office regarding the door notice.

On 6.18 of 2024 at 1239, JD Santifer followed up on that return call.

The owner stated she just moved here from Alabama and her dog had a litter of 13 puppies.

She apologized for the disturbance and stated they were weaning the dogs and the separation was causing the noise complaints.

She stated they had most of the puppies given away and there shouldn't be any further problems.

JD discussed the licensing and rabies requirements for Butte Silver Bowl.

She claimed the dogs have rabies vaccinations and agreed to come purchase a license.

She did not.

We received a complaints about barking dogs, four to five dogs.

He stopped at the residence and found two dogs outside, but the dogs were quiet and didn't bark while he was on the scene.

A gate had put up, been put up and was locked, so he's unable to enter the yard.

These are his words.

I announced our presence, but no one came out.

I began to write a notice when a man was named Jason Vyers came out.

Found that he was renting a portion of the house from Chad Hobbs, that's the owner of the house, who had severe MS.

Both parties each have two dogs, but none of the four dogs have current rabies vaccinations or licenses.

James stated one of the dogs is the barker.

I discussed different options to control the barking.

Chad was unavailable due to his disability.

I issued pending citations to James for all four dogs for no citations or licenses.

I issued an additional citation for the Kennel license violation.

Joe Shagana was also with him.

He says the same thing.

He was ultimately fined $1,300 for the violations.

To date, he has paid $275 towards the balance, leaving a total of 1,025 left on that balance.

He last paid city court November of 2024.

Mr.

Vyrus received the citations because Mr.

Hobbes would not come to the door and speak with animal control.

Mr.

Byers told Animal Control that he would take the citation because Mr.

Hobbes was in poor health.

Mr.

Hobbes is the owner of the property, but does not answer the door when animal control has been there, and he doesn't reply to the notice left for him.

On 2.11 of 2025 at 6.02 p.m., Susan Crossman left a message on our machine.

She is calling with concerns for the dogs in the brick house on the northwest corner.

They're leaving their dogs out in the cold for hours.

One looks like a pit bull and it was shivering.

She believes these dogs are neglected.

One of them got hit last spring.

She knows she has puppies too.

If we could look into this case and see if there's anything bad going on.

And if we could give her a call, that would be great.

Joe Shag and I responded upon arriving at the residence.

Rod assured me that he would avoid leaving the dogs outside for long periods in the cold and would discuss the situation with Jason and Linda.

On 7.12 of this year, we received a report of two puppies at large, both black and white, running down Sherman towards Amherst.

At 2.25, Tanya Sturza got another call.

She was the only officer on that day.

It was a Saturday.

Received another call that somebody saw him again, three puppies this time running at large, one tan and two black and white.

She could not catch the two black and white ones, but did catch the tan one.

She'll go back out after someone spots the boys again.

They ditched me.

That was her words.

On 7.16 of 2025, at 3.33 p.m.

Animal reclaim, Chad Hobbs.

This is JD Santa for Lynette Hogarth.

This is JD Santa First words.

I first witnessed the owner and an unknown woman in the lot acting strange around the electricians' trucks and trailers.

This is at the animal shelter.

I asked if they needed assistance, and they first declined.

Then they headed to the ACO office, and after I again asked if they needed help, they stated they needed to reclaim a dog, so I directed them to the shelter.

Lynette and I were then called over to the shelter for issues associated with the reclaim.

I interviewed the owner, Chad Hobbs, who has a disability and is hard to understand.

An unknown woman who we later found out was Melinda, was helping translate the issues.

And then they were calling it corn nut that had been registers to Jason Viers.

Through the discussion, it was found Jason had also called and confirmed this was not Corn nut.

So we authorized the reclaim.

I went back to the ACO office to get a new county license tag, and upon return was informed that the dog had been in before and was reclaimed as corn nut.

And these individuals were trying to say it is corn nut to avoid repurchasing rabies and license fees.

But they're changing the dog's name to Marley.

I advised I would still return the dog, but if this dog is in corn nut, then it is unvaccinated and would need a new vaccination and license.

We tried calling Jason Vyars, no answer, so we left a voicemail.

I advised the information provided was very suspicious.

The owner Chab Hobbs got mad and went out to his vehicle.

The unknown woman was advised we would not get we would could not give her get the dog's rabies and would um and they would not be allowed to reclaim the dog.

They would be allowed for 130 dollars.

She went outside and came back stating the owner was mad and didn't want to reclaim the dog today.

I advised our offer wouldn't be valid after today, and he may forfeit the dog if not reclaimed and fees would increase.

Both individuals left and did not return.

They did return, and it was found we called the dog not Corn Net because they were very being very dishonest and trying to license a dog, not license a dog that needed to be licensed and vaccinated, saying it was another dog.

When they came back, I had received an email.

By that time I had received an email from Commissioner Shea about the situation at this address recently that Miss Boyle had brought to her attention.

So we knew we knew that this was not a pleasant house, but we were then aware that there were more issues than not there after Commissioner Shea got a hold of us.

So when they came back several days later to try and reclaim the dog again, I did not reclaim the dog to him.

By that time it belonged to Butte Silver Bow.

And I told them that because of the issues that they had there, and the we did not know how many dogs they actually had at their property because of all of the back and forth on who was who and what was what with the names of the dog that I would not reclaim the dog to him as it belonged to Butte Silver Boat this time, and they left without incident.

That being said, um, after I received this communication, um, and I went through all of every bit of documentation we have, and probably bored you to tears, by the way.

Um I have the last two days taken my own dog and walked by that property twice in the evening.

Um and I have walked by there before where the dogs have come at the fence at me, but in the last two nights.

I have heard a few dogs.

Um I've seen one inside the house, but I've heard a few dogs barking inside their home.

I have not seen any.

Further there is about, well, I'm five foot, so it's probably not as high as I think it is, but it's pretty high.

Chicken wire, draped all around the property, and they have a love seat and a sofa now pressed up against the front gate along with the lock that they have on it.

There's absolutely no room in the front yard really for anybody to walk or maybe a small dog could be in the front yard, but it's so filled with junk that they have I don't know, they have strapping all around the fence and and gates and everything.

And then again on the side of the yard, they have the same thing.

And I did witness the gentleman, Mr.

Hobbs entering his yard last night because I walked on the side of the house and his dog was at the door, and the dog did not come out, did not was not aggressive with me, my dog, did not try and push through the screen he was go going into.

So I I'm not I'm not saying that Miss Boyle did not see what she said she saw, or I'm just saying we have not had it reported to us directly.

Um if there are dogs down there being aggressive towards children or towards anybody.

We will certainly address that, but as you see, we've addressed a lot of things down there.

Um we can only address things that are reported to us.

Um it is a terrible place, but I can't go take property off of a place because we don't like how they're treating them.

So I don't know.

Thank you, Director Um Hogarth for that history historical lesson on this on this property.

Yes.

Um one thing that you've established is that there is a there are a habitual offender of maybe animal control service issues at that property.

Um could probably argue that this communication is her reporting something to But Silverbow to take a look at.

I would think that with this communication, an animal services employee should maybe communicate that they've received this letter.

I'm not saying how how to do your job or anything, but I mean that this could be to in my opinion considered uh a report filed to just put them on on notice.

Um but but I guess how do we move forward with this?

I mean, we obviously have a constituents that's that's concerned.

Um has you have you or your department reached out to her to get what she was talking about?

I have not because I was hoping that she would be here tonight and we could have that discussion and we could I could find out more.

Um I wanted to do first of all I wanted to do kind of a deep dive into find out what I could to what we have, what we have done, what we have been there for.

Um this week when I found out that we were having this communication, um, so they didn't miss anything.

Um I wanted to make sure that if she was had called um and we missed it, I would make sure, you know, wanted to know.

But I went through all of our online complaints as well because sometimes people will put an online complaint in and will only put their address or they will just do it anonymous, um, which are difficult for us, but we will usually respond to them anyway, especially if they say aggressive dog.

Um so no, I haven't reached out to her.

I will.

Um the way to move forward on this though is somewhat difficult because if we don't have somebody that's willing to give us information right now and actually stand up for what they see and saw and want to write a voluntary statement and testify toward that, I can't just say, well, your neighbor said that this happened, and so therefore I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna come and do X, Y, and Z because they said I really need more than that, or or more people to say what they saw and when they saw it.

Um this is this is quite a history, but there are chunks of time in it, and they aren't all the same thing.

Um we have a lot of welfare checks on these animals.

A lot of them don't belong to the same people.

Um he has several people living at the house.

Um we don't even know a lot of times who owns the dogs, or are they the same dogs?

Who owns the dogs or are they the same dogs?

He won't let us in the property.

To get a warrant to actually go into the property, we need more evidence that there's wrongdoing being done.

Filthy property is not what we're there for.

We need to see animal something about the animal, or we need to see an animal behaving badly, or somebody giving us more proof that an animal behave badly.

So director.

Our ordinances are written that way.

Um and we it's not great, but that's what we have to follow at this point.

So, Director Hogarth, I I guess you know, a step moving forward is if Miss Boyle is listening to tonight's meeting to properly report that same instance, what would be that pathway for the case?

Well, I will reach out to Miss Boyle and I will talk to her and and ask her what she's seen.

And no, no, Director Hogar.

I'm asking if if the same thing happens tonight, what is the proper venue for her to report this to your department?

Just so she knows if she is listening to the Chairman Morgan.

I I keep missing that Stephanie Starman.

You're fine.

If if you have something to report to animal control is to call our dispatch number if it's during um working hours, um, which we have an officer on to stay through Friday till 7 30 at night.

Um on Monday we have one till 6 30, Saturday till 4 30.

Um call our dispatch number and report it right away, and we'll get an officer there right now.

And then be willing when if you do to give a voluntary statement to back up what you see and what you're seeing.

If we can get there in time to get whatever's handled, but if we don't help us out.

Secondly, if it's after hours, the best place to call, if it's an aggressive dog situation for instance, is to call the non-emergency um police dispatch.

Give them the report, they will call us, tell us what's going on, and then what happens is we'll usually say if it's an aggressive dog, send a police officer to see what is going on because they have firearms, our officers don't make sure that it is as reported, and then they will call the officer back and say, it's as reported, come now.

A lot of times if they just call us and say, it's a it's a dog at large and it's one of these aggressive ones, and we just dispatch them.

Um I'll have an officer out there driving around in circles looking for a dog that they never find.

So officer, police officers are already out.

If they go to the area or the place where it's reported, and they see that there's a dog there, then our officers can go.

Otherwise, I'll just be paying overtime, overtime, overtime to look for dogs that oftentimes aren't actually there when they by the time our officer gets there.

And if they're if they're not being aggressive, then there's an a police officer is usually the best determination, and the quickest, the quickest resort person to get there after hours because our officers are at home and have to get ready and then go.

And a police officer is they're on shift and they're you know, they're in the area, so that would be the quickest way after hours.

Okay.

Thank you, Director Hogarth.

Any commissioners on the question?

Commissioner Callahan.

Wow.

I thought you'd like that.

My question is, how many violations and how many neighbors have to complain?

And all he got was a ticket for twelve hundred dollars.

He didn't get his dogs removed.

He's coming back to get his dogs back before he pays his fine.

What is wrong with our system?

Obviously, many neighbors have complained.

This isn't the same one that may be a little bit crazy and just doesn't as a vindictive against a neighbor.

That happens, we all know that.

It sounds to me like you've had many names complain.

And then you tell us that there's multiple people in the house.

That doesn't apply.

Any more than three dogs, you have to have a kennel license.

So why is this going on as long as it's gone on?

Bring a police officer, go in and check the place.

As soon as they see a vehicle pull up that's a dog impoundment, they're gonna run in the house and hide.

So we just walk and say we couldn't find a violation.

At some point, you gotta help these people out.

I mean, from what I heard tonight, multiple people have complained.

And one of your complaints was they didn't give us a name.

I've had numerous complaints by people that you guys always require a name.

And you're gonna tell the person who made the complaint.

People won't give their name because of retaliation.

So they shouldn't have to give their name.

And I talked to the county attorney a few years ago about this situation, and she said the only reason they would need a name is if it ended up in court.

They'd have to be a witness.

But you shouldn't be given the person that's being the complaint on who gave the complaint.

And I believe that was happening quite often, long before you were in this position.

But for this to go on as long as it has, we there's there's uh nuisance laws, there's kennel laws.

How many laws do these people have to break before we we put an end to this thing for these people?

Obviously, this gal decided to do it officially through the council because she isn't getting the neighborhood isn't getting anywhere, is what it sounds to me like Director Hogarth response.

Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Callahan.

First of all, I'd like to address the fact that we give people names.

That is absolutely false.

We do not ever give uh uh anybody a reporter's name.

Not ever.

The only time that a person is entitled to a name is if they go to court and they have to face their accuser.

That's not my role.

That is by the court.

Um, secondly, um we have quite a few um issues here, yes.

Not all of them are the same.

A lot of them were welfare checks, where we were called there to check on the animals that lived there, um, which we did, and we uh uh made assurances that the animals that were living there were okay.

Um secondly, um I I can only abide by the ordinances that are on our books right now.

I can get it, I could certainly get a um a warrant and have the police go with us if I had enough proof to get a warrant.

Um and by having that I have to have a lot of evidence to do so.

Our officers can only um can only issue citations for for issues that they see.

I understand that there might be frustration, but we've been called there just in 2025 twice, and we picked up a dog once.

We can't determine what the fines are.

We write the citations, it's up to the courts and and the judge to decide what they pay or don't pay.

I we have nothing to do with that.

And we can we can determine whether they get their dogs back on based on whether they can pay for it and if they get there in time.

I can't hold property from them, and dogs are property unless they are dangerous dogs or unless they are being held on a bike case hold.

They could come in and and re their dog could be picked up twelve times, and they could come in and reclaim it twelve times.

There is nothing on our books that says that they can't.

It is frustrating.

I understand that.

Uh thank you, Director Hogarth.

Uh, follow-up, Commissioner Callahan.

I would like to say that we've got very good people that are in our judges in our courts.

And I believe if you gave the judge a phone call and said these people are habitual offenders.

We get called there numerous times.

The judge ain't gonna slap them on the hand and say it's your first defense.

We're just gonna give you half the fine, and then I don't want to see you again.

If you told that judge the history of this house, I would believe he would handle things way different than it sounds like it's been handled so far.

Okay.

Follow or another question, Commissioner Anderson.

Thank you very much, Chairman Morgan.

Uh a few comments.

Uh I made a complaint to animal control.

This is well before your time.

This is about 10 years ago about uh a neighbor, a lot of people were complaining about some dogs I called animal control.

Uh they came to my door yelling and screaming at me because I called animal control on them.

And I go, what do you mean I called animal control on you?

Well, they were just over here and said that Commissioner Anderson, you told on them.

So somebody in the department told on them.

I'm not saying it was you, and I hope things are very different now than it was then, but I know for a fact that it's happened.

It's happened to me.

I also know for a fact that we have passed in my tenure here numerous laws to mitigate some of these problems that seem like you've just told us about in in the last little bit.

I may have missed one or two, but I I counted 14 different uh things that they've called you about.

And the same things are happening.

If you know, all the way back from 11 years ago on March 2014, a call with the dog with uh 13 puppies, and they said they got rid of it.

Obviously, they they're doing something there if they had 13 dogs, and over the next 14 years, it seems like there was quite a while, but it's like, oh, I just moved here from Alabama and the dog had puppies.

But it's the same people in the house.

So there's a red flag there, too.

You know, this might have been a new person who just moved up here, but the owner of the house is the same as it was 14 years ago, you said.

So this is a habitual problem at this house.

And obviously, uh Colleen Boyle when she wrote this communication is is sick and tired of not seeing any uh satisfaction coming of her and neighbors and other people.

There you said there was a lot of anonymous complaints.

I'm sure that she was probably one of them, or she had somebody else call in a few of these.

I can't prove it, I don't know, but if I ask her, I imagine that's what I'd find out.

Uh there's something definitely not going on here, and I don't know if it's uh animal control.

I don't know if it's it sounds like uh a few groups should be involved with this.

It sounds like the yard is a mess with the fence around and no room to walk around the residence.

Community enrichment should be involved.

And I'd be curious if community enrichment was ever called on on some of these, but the sheriff should be department should be with you, and I'd go in and look at this.

I'm sure that the kennel violations would be numerous.

I'm sure that half the dogs here are not registered or vaccinated.

Excuse me, my throat is bothering me quite a bit today.

But this uh communication came to us, was dated July 23rd.

That's 21 days ago.

And the fact that you haven't reached out and contacted her about what her concerns are is what I find most troubling.

The first thing I would do in this situation is pick up the phone, and I can't tell people what to do, it's not my job, but I would hope that when you get to work tomorrow that you pick up the phone and call Miss Boyle and talk to her, have a conversation about this and what the problems are.

And maybe find out with some of the other neighbors around that you know, but to have the animal abuse complaints, to have the dogs running around complaints and other complaints.

There's a whole lot of evidence here that I would say would classify going in and getting a warrant and looking at some of this, because there's a lot of laws being violated here.

I would call community enrichment and have them go with you, and I'd call Lester and have some PD go with you and take a look and see what's going on with this resident.

Something is not right.

Thank you, Commissioner Anderson.

Just so the record reflects the letter was dated July 23rd, but we did not have a meeting the last the fifth Wednesday of July, and then the regular meeting.

This was just referred to Director Hogarth's department last week.

And so it just in full disclosure, the the time doesn't go back all the way to the 23rd.

I just want to make sure that this body and the public notes that as well.

Follow up, Commissioner Anderson.

No, I understand that.

I just hope that I I would hope, and I don't know what the procedure is with uh with our council secretary, but I I would imagine that they would have been made aware of this at some time in the well before that meeting, the first meeting last week.

Well before that.

Just just on that question, Commissioner Anderson.

The communication cannot be forwarded to Director Hogarth prior to us meeting last week based on that recommendation.

And so that would have been her the first opportunity for either our council secretary to send it to them before.

So it would have been last week that she would have received it.

On the question, Commissioner Shea, did you have something?

Commissioner Shea.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, Director Hogarth, for the lengthy description of all of the times that you've been to that property to address it.

This is in my district.

Just for the record, I Miss Bo Boyle contacted me the same day that she can that she uh requested the communication.

And I did reach out to Ms.

Hogarth and got pretty much almost the same rundown in an email, which I did share with Ms.

Boyle.

She is very interested in being part of the solution here.

And she's interested in having a meeting and finding out how she can be part of the solution and how we can all work together to get the get the issue solved.

And I do know that it does take numerous complaints for you to be able to take action.

And I think if we can visit with her and let her know how she can help you and help your department help you help yourselves.

Commissioners, I would just like to say that we our department understands that it is frustrating when there's a problem and people want a solution right now.

This is from 2014 to 2025.

It's several other people with all of these issues, but we have to take them individually as they come in, and there are different ordinances that we have to put to each issue that we deal with on this.

That being said, we also understand that our ordinances are outdated and they don't work all the time for what we're dealing with today.

That's why we are rewriting a lot of them to better um to better reflect what we need to do and how we can do it better and help our citizens.

We understand that we shouldn't have to wait until a dog bites you before we can do anything with a dog that's being aggressive.

We know that's not the best solution.

We are working on that, and we will be bringing that forward to you at some point this year.

But we can only deal with what we have on the books right now.

And so and and 10 years ago, I wasn't here, 11 years ago I wasn't here.

So we will do what we can do right now, and we will work with this neighborhood, and um we will work with Ms.

Boyle and with the county attorney's office and the judges, and and work within our boundaries that we can to come up with a solution that will work for everyone.

But um also again we can't um we can't always you know make things happen as quickly as we want to, even on our end.

Um I would like to rescue all of those um, and we don't even really know exactly.

I I think there's three dogs there now, but I'd like to take them all out of there, but they belong to this at least one of them.

I don't know who owned who lives there, but um we'll we'll we'll do what we can to help this neighborhood um within our means.

Thank you, Director Hogarth.

Uh Commissioner Shea, I I'm gonna ask you a question just because this is your district.

Do you have an idea of what you want to see with this communication moving forward?

You don't have to answer right now, there's still deliberation going on, but just wanted to offer that to you.

Follow up, Commissioner Shea.

Um thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um I just out of curiosity and having the unpaid fine um that was issued over a year ago.

Um just would you just describe to me what the mechanism is for someone who doesn't pay a fine and kind of just give me a 40,000 foot view of the timeline of how do we go about collecting unpaid fines?

County attorney Ann Ruth.

Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Shea, uh unpaid fines are the responsibility of the courts at that point.

Um it's they're it's on how they want to proceed forward.

Some courts send people to collections, depending on how long the backlogs are.

Some courts just simply take them.

Well, I mean, you could call it a write-off, they don't they don't ever come in.

Uh fines and fees are probably one of the most unpaid things in the county, to be honest.

Uh there is a mechanism for you know holding them in contempt.

It is civil at that point, uh, unless their case is still pending, and you can revoke their sentence based on the fact that they haven't paid their fines and fees.

Um, but for the most part, when we're talking about things like this, it's within the court's realm to collect it.

And if they haven't notified us that they haven't been paid, there's nothing the county attorney's office can do.

Uh follow up, Commissioner Shea.

And then Commissioner Callahan.

Thank you, County Attorney Android.

That's really disappointing to hear, but thank you for sharing that in thinking of what to do with this communication.

Um, I think it's uh safe to note it and place it on file, and I'll work with the parties to schedule um a group meeting so we can talk about it.

Go ahead.

Is that in the form of a motion?

Oh, not yet.

Okay.

Commissioner Callahan on the question.

Ms.

Hogarth, I just want to state that you got a great staff, and they work their butts off.

Thank you.

I know you have turnover.

Uh it's a tough, tough job.

JD is as professional and as a good employee as you can find.

He does a great job.

But I also remember through the years, we've had Mr.

Randall come up here and say we gotta fix these ordinances.

We gotta fix these ordinances.

We changed ordinances multiple times for Mr.

Randall.

And we keep hearing it won't work.

So whatever we gotta do to make this work, I mean there's nothing harder on the staff that has to keep going back to habitual offender, and all they can say is well, they lock the gate on me, I can't do nothing.

I mean, they don't want to do that either.

Plus they're putting their lives in jeopardy every time they go to a crazy house like that.

So you as the department head, I would ask that you figure out some way we can fix these ordinances and come to us in the judiciary, and we will help you.

But we can't keep using the excuse that our hands are tied.

We've got to be able to find solutions to fix these problems.

These people in these neighborhoods shouldn't have to go through this and then come to the council and ask us to help them.

This is not right.

So I'm I I appreciate your staff.

It's a very, very tough job.

I mean, they put their life in jeopardy every day.

I mean, they came to us a couple times saying maybe we should start packing guns because they get threatened every day.

You know, so we we understand what you're going through.

But on the other side, the citizens in that neighborhood shouldn't have to keep putting up with an habitual offender, and we've got to find answers to this.

So we will work with you in whatever way you can to fix an ordinance that we don't have to keep coming back and having these issues.

Uh Director Hogarth.

Chairman Morgan, um, Commissioner Callahan.

Um glad to hear you say that because we've been meeting every two weeks since January.

Um, our our Animal Services Board, um, assistant county attorney, and uh somebody else.

Um, and we have been going through all of our ordinances and we'll be presenting them to you by the end of the year.

So we really will need your support because a lot of them are um drastically changed and and um are are gonna be much more effective and there's a lot more teeth in them for our officers, and I um I understand um probably better than most what my officers go through on the daily basis, and they are the best of the best, they work very hard, and um they are second to none, and I appreciate everything that they do and what they put up with, and it is not an easy job.

Um, and I think that I actually don't think that they get enough credit for the work that they do, but that's probably just me.

Um we have three very good officers, and we have three and a half, very good shelter um attendance in.

And um I think that they're outstanding, so thank you for letting me say that.

Thank you.

Follow up, Commissioner Callahan.

I just want to say you used to have three officers at a uh uh a fairly decent wage, and they had lost one officer, and then in order to get backed up to three officers, they dropped one officer's wage.

They almost cut it in half to make two jobs.

And I think we need to do something better to fix that and pay these guys for what they're doing.

I think that was not many years ago that they dropped it quite a bit.

I think just to bring in that third officer to have a rotation.

And that was something else we'd need to work on is get these guys a fair pay, and then maybe wouldn't we wouldn't have that turnover as well?

Thank you, Commissioner Callahan.

Um Commissioner Healy.

This is kind of up the subject, I mean, but it is animal control.

I emailed you directly about people that had about two dozen pigeons in the alley.

Commissioner Healy, we just gotta stay on task with this communication.

Sorry about that.

If you have a question regarding this one, by all means.

Okay, thank you.

Commissioner Shea.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

At this time I would make a motion to note and place on file communication number 2025-395.

Okay, there's been a motion made and seconded to note communication 2025 395 in place on file.

Is there anything on the question?

Uh, Commissioner Anderson.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Actually, I would like to uh find out and get an update on this in a couple of weeks.

Uh so with that, I would make a motion to hold this in abeyance and uh have an update on this in two weeks and see what's going on with uh this uh communication.

Okay, do I have a second motion dies due to lack of second?

So we'll go back to the original motion of note communication 2025 395 in place on file.

Is there anything on the question?

Would everyone please vote?

Would anyone like to change their vote?

Would the clerk please record the vote?

Nine Yay one nine.

Thank you.

Motion passes.

Moving on to communication 2025 394, David Hutchins uh at 529 South Colorado Street Bugh Montana, requesting council of commissioners clarify to Butte Silverbow Law Enforcement, the law-abiding citizens are permitted to recreate on the upper level of the parking garage, provided they don't interfere with normal operations and parking.

Mr.

Hutchins, I believe you're in the audience.

Is there anything you want to add to this communication?

I no, or nothing to add, okay.

Um I guess I would ask if there's any questions from the commissioners regarding this communication.

Uh Commissioner Thatcher.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

County Attorney Anne Ruth, uh do we have like say somebody gets injured or anything along the lines while they're playing their is it bike poll?

Bike or poll, yeah.

What type of liability are we facing in that instance?

County attorney and Chairman Morgan, excuse me, uh yeah, Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Thatcher.

I'm not on.

There we go.

Uh Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Thatcher, if they're on Butte Silverbow County property, it's gonna be our liability if we allow them to conduct it on the property unless there's another insurance policy in place, contract in place, and the county is 100% liable.

Any follow-up, Commissioner Thatcher.

So I guess I I would have a question on that.

So now that it's been brought forward, Butte Silver Bow is acknowledging that it's happening.

Um, and and obviously that's not a permitted use for a parking garage.

It would seem that the police department might be in fact right by moving them along.

Would that be safe to say, County Attorney Enruth?

Chairman Morgan, that is correct, unless there's some other agreement in place allowing them to use the garage in a manner that's not for parking.

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Callahan.

Mr.

Hutchins, I got a couple questions for you.

Seeing that you believe this is good for your group and you're not harming anything, and you're just putting good use to a good facility.

Uh we run out facilities all the time.

One of the requirements are that they have to have their own insurance.

Would you folks be willing to get some kind of uh uh insurance policy just to cover the the the Pute Silverbow if you if we allow you to do this?

Mr.

Hush Hutchins, I'd uh just ask that you turn the microphone on.

Um there you go, and then Mr.

Hutchins.

Uh Commissioner Callahan, um we would certainly consider it.

I I don't think we probably would.

We are we don't have any budget.

We're not um we don't have any money to do anything like that, and we'll find another place.

We've been looking for a place for a while and haven't found anything near as good as that.

And I guess I would say that I ride my bike on county property every day.

Um I wrote it on the sidewalk here today, and so you're liable for that too.

Um yeah, I'm not sure what the difference is.

I understand the parking garage is made for parking, but um yeah, I think it's uh a positive thing there.

Um you heard about the nonsense there.

We are shoeing the nonsense off.

You're you're right, I agree with you, Commissioner Callahan on the question.

I agree with you.

Having having people in that property definitely keeps the riff rapt out, and that's for sure a plus for that parking garage as well.

So that's something we should consider as well.

Okay.

Any other questions?

Commissioner O'Neill.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Um that I mean, I I definitely respect what you guys are doing, and and uh but it's just it's it's not a facility for it is a parking garage.

Um I mean your example of driving down the street on your bike's different when you're than riding your bike versus having an event type thing in in the um in the parking garage.

Um if one of you guys fell off, obviously we could go on that for hours, but um the the intentions of that are not for that, so that's what makes it difficult for the county to grant you guys to do that without special use permit and proper insurance to have an event there basically that's what you're doing is you're having an event there, and um I just don't see any other way you would properly do it.

We'd have to protect the county has to protect protect themselves and you guys as individuals um recreating there have to protect yourself as well.

So uh Chief Chief Executive Gallagher, just a question.

I if if Mr.

Hutchins or his group were interested in taking out an insurance policy and using that venue, if you will, what would that process look like?

Chairman Morgan, commissioners, it would look like just as as uh Commissioner O'Neill said, we would need to do a special use permit, grant that um you know we could determine whether there was a charge or not to that.

But the indemnifying the county with an insurance policy is a prerequisite to that.

That's how all of our events are.

That's everything that we do.

We do lots of events where we don't charge for venues, we do different things, and I I I applaud what you know that they're trying to do the right thing and and trying to find a place to do it, but insurance is the prerequisite.

And if you if we said to MMIA, who is our insurance carrier that this was going on, they would not cover us, and that would that would carry our liability there.

That's that it's it happened with bounce houses.

There's things that they say, nope, we don't cover you guys for certain things.

So without having uh additionally insured in there, I I know our our uh and uh tomorrow we're meeting with MMIA, I could even pose them this question, but I can pretty much tell you what would happen.

Commissioner Callahan.

I guess my question would be before we take a vote on this, would you mind us holding it in a band and you go at least look into what may be a uh a limited liability insurance policy?

Maybe if you each put throw in 20 bucks for two or three months or whatever, and maybe it would be worth your while, you know.

We I I'd hate to shut you down when we come to find out that it could have been something as simple as a few bucks per guy.

I don't know how many guys play or gals or how uh how this game is.

But if you would take the time to even look into that and see where you see where you come out and then give us a report back and we can vote whether we should do it or not.

Would you mind doing that?

Uh Mr.

Hutchins.

Yeah, Commissioners, certainly um willing to look into it.

I know it's going to be more expensive than that.

And I guess my question is you know, our alternative is to play on a basketball court or a tennis court that is also county property.

Do we need to get insurance for that?

Uh Chief Executive Gallagher.

Um Chairman Morgan and Commissioners, yes, you would because that's not what the design use for it is if it's in the park.

So anything that's outside of the design use for for something, then it would be the same process.

So you know, when the when the facility is designed for a basketball tennis court, um pickleball, whatever, and then it's being used outside of what the intended use is, then you you would still technically need to do that.

Okay.

Uh follow our question, Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

I guess this is a question for our county attorney.

I I'm just struggling a little bit uh to Mr.

Hutchins' point to understand how this is, you know, uh unorganized activities happen in our parks all the time.

You know, people running around a park and playing football, uh you know, riding their bike around a parking lot in a park.

How is this fundamentally different from a liability perspective than uh those uh informal activities?

County attorney Enrith.

Chairman Morgan, Commissioner O'Leary, uh, exactly what Chief Executive Gallagher just said.

You have to look at the intended use of the facility.

A park has intended uses.

Kids playing in the park, throwing a ball, playing on basketball courts, things like that.

MMIA, if something were to happen while you know those things were occurring, and a child gets hurt, uh, there is a much higher possibility that MMIA is going to cover you know that instance if it was the county's neglect, correct?

So when we start looking at the parking garage, it is a parking garage.

It is three stories off the ground, and you this this for all intents and purposes, you know, sport, uh they're on bicycles, they're on top of it.

Um it is not an intended use for that without a special permit or an insurance policy in place.

Uh I fully agree with Chief Executive Gallagher, our insurance would not cover it.

The the county would be 100% liable if someone were to get hurt.

Uh the difference with driving down a sidewalk or what riding on a sidewalk or in a in a bike lane is those are pseudo, you know, purposes for that activity or that you know, for walking and riding your bike.

If they're in the park and they're on tennis courts, the same thing.

Those are designed for those activities.

We would need a special use permit to change those activities.

But then again, you also have to keep in mind that Butte Silver Bow isn't necessarily liable for someone just getting hurt on a tennis court.

We have to be negligent in some manner.

So by us allowing a different type of sport to be played on a court that is not designed for it, um, we're not negligent there.

That's an intentional act, and our insurance is not going to cover an intentional act, it only covers negligence.

Does that answer your question?

Yeah, Commissioner O'Leary.

Yes, I think I think it does.

I I guess the follow-up to it would be you know, a more possible more suitable location that I seems like it would match the intended use would be the the uh paved area of the of the original, right?

That's a driving surface.

We you know, people ride their bikes in there all the time, you know, kids go around and just and fool around.

It could be an intended use that uh might be a better venue.

I understand you know the parking garage is a it's a parking garage, it's three stories up.

There's there's some you know complications there, but it would be it seems strange to me that we would uh you know bike activities are uh would in my estimation would be a normal use of a park.

You know, people bike two parks, they bike in parks.

Uh can you maybe talk a little bit about that?

Okay, county attorney Ann Ruth.

Chairman Morgan, uh Commissioner O'Leary, yes, riding your bicycle is a common use in a park.

Bike polo is probably not a common use in a park.

I think MMIA would be able to split those off pretty quickly and say, no, we're sorry, riding your bike is a very common use for the vast majority of the population of Butte Silverville County.

Bike polo is we is a much smaller, you know, condensed use, where I do think something like the original parking lot would be more conducive to the sport, but then again, you would also be looking at a conditional use permit and insurance for that activity.

Does that make sense?

One more follow-up like that.

Chief Executive.

Yeah, Chairman Morgan and uh Commissioner O'Leary, I went back to Parks and Director School.

These were a lot of the case things that we did.

If you if you permit it, then you're allowing for that activity.

That that's the difference.

If somebody goes in and does something with no permission and gets hurt and they're doing an unauthorized activity, the county is not as liable as if we as a body say yes to uh to an activity, and then you bring in the liability, and that's where this the special use or the additional insurance goes.

I mean, it it truthfully I know there's unauthorized use of of many things.

It's the same thing as like when we go to the uh skate park, we put up signings saying helmets are recommended, but if we mandate them, we're responsible to make sure that they're wearing their helmets.

Those are the those are the scenarios that that causes liability within counties.

County attorney and ruth.

And uh Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Larry, to add on top of that knowledge of an impermissible use is also the county acknowledging that we know it's happening.

So that's why we had to shut down the parking lot, you know, activity because we knew it was occurring.

We were essentially allowing the permissive use, and you know, in a pseudo manner, which again then our insurance would not have covered it because we knew about it.

Follow up, Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

I I guess my continued question here has to do with you know, by by creating this permitted uses, you know, by by saying that the you know you have to use everything by its permitted uses.

You know, where is that list?

I want to know where that list is so that I can give it to my constituents and say in Clark's Park, you can do A, B, and C in Staden Park, you can do these things.

Uh you know, if that's not written down somewhere, if it's not given to the public, how do we know or how does the public know that they are not doing a permitted use within our parks?

Commissioner O'Leary, I guess my response to that is the communication that's before us tonight is playing bike polo at the parking garage.

It's not talking about using bike polo or other sports in parks.

So again, I would just say we need to stay on task with this communication that's that's been brought forward to us.

Mr.

Hutchins question.

Can I clarify on that?

I I wasn't asking for you to condone bike polo.

I was asking for you to say that we can law-abiding citizens can recreate up there.

So just to clarify, I wasn't asking for special permission for bike polo.

Sure.

Uh Commissioner O'Neil.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

So I just want to uh couple comments on the the list of doing stuff in the park.

So if it's a basketball court, it's it's used for basketball.

Commissioner O'Neill, I just asked that we stay on tasks that this could be.

That's simple.

Thank you.

Okay, what would be the pleasure of the of the council?

Any motions?

Commissioner Thatcher.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Commissioner Callahan, are you wanting to hold this?

I will I will be fine with holding that for a couple two weeks if that's what you wish.

Commissioner Callahan.

I guess my question would be do you want to take the time and at least run it past one of these insurance companies, see what it would take to see if it's worth your while?

Sure.

I mean, why vote tonight if maybe down the road you figure it could cost 150 bucks for three months or something?

And to me, I think you would probably go for something like that.

Yep.

Okay.

Okay.

Is that the form of the motion, Commissioner?

Make a motion to hold communication number 2025-394.

Second.

Okay.

There's been a motion made and seconded to hold communication 2025-394 in the committee of the whole.

Is there anything on the question?

Would everyone please vote?

Would anyone like to change their vote?

Would the clerk please record the vote?

9A19.

Thank you.

Motion passes.

Moving on to number nine, communication 2025 420.

Karen Burns, Community Development Director requesting counsel of commissioners to approve the issuance of the request for proposal, RFP to facilitate the sale of 305 West Mercury, the Business Development Center, B D C.

I don't know if Ms.

Burns has an update or if the commissioners have any questions.

At this time, I would just go for questions from the commissioners.

Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Yeah, I read through the RFP and I I guess I appreciate the desire to maintain this building as a business incubator of sorts, but I guess in my my personal opinion is that the way it was outlined in the RFP isn't really feasible.

It's going to require a new owner to operate the building as an incubator or develop development center of some sort.

And it introduces a lot of complexity that likely won't get the appropriate amount of follow-through.

I'm not really opposed to selling the building necessarily, but I do think that it's important that we don't give the building away to just so some developer can turn it around and be the beneficiary of a huge increase in value because they increase the rents.

If this was a market rate of a building.

Additionally, in the market analysis, there's two, there's two different market analysis, one from a couple years ago and one recently.

The most recent one uses a cap rate, a capitalization rate of 10 percent.

The one from two years ago uses a cap rate of seven and a half percent.

So if I apply the net operating income, I apologize for the math here, but net operating income of the of the current market analysis using the 7.5% cap rate, the valuation is about $610,000.

So there's there's a discon disconnection here between the two market analysis.

I I don't think that the market rate of this is should be in the 450 to 500,000 range.

Um we had some public comment from from somebody earlier uh suggesting a million dollars.

I'm not sure it's quite that high, but I I certainly don't think a $500,000 market value is is appropriate.

Uh let's see here.

I also don't think that the building is in that bad condition.

It was it's kind of been portrayed as this, you know, Albatross and Butte Silverbow's uh books, and I just don't think that's a fair assessment.

Butt Silverbow just spent $224,000 on a boiler uh about seven years or eight years ago.

Boilers can easily easily have a uh lifespan of thirty to forty years with proper maintenance.

The roof is about twenty years old, uh, which is about halfway through the expected life of a commercial TPO roof.

Uh new doors were just recently installed.

Uh Silverbow Disability put a substantial amount of work into the space on the lower level.

That they built out a commercial kitchen down there and and some other um use spaces for their purposes.

And there's some other things that I I just really uh in the market analysis that I I just disagree with, they put on them on the market analysis that all the tenants are month to month.

I know that that's not true, so I don't know if that's their assumption that they were assuming they're month to month, uh, but that's not true.

Uh it's also my understanding that the tenants of this building pay a prorated amount for taxes directly to the treasurer's office, uh, roughly $500 a month per unit.

It probably is different per unit based on square footage.

Uh but the financial statement that I got from community development department earlier has an additional cost to the county of $8,500 a year for for taxes or property taxes.

I so I guess I'm a little bit of confused on that.

Uh it would be great if Director Burns could clarify that.

I I don't really understand why we're doing that.

Um it'd be great if we get some clarification off you do things.

Thank you.

Director Burns.

Oh.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan, uh, Commissioner O'Leary, members of council.

Financial statement I have pri uh provided you with earlier this afternoon or late this afternoon was a depiction of what the actual net operating income could be of that building based on private ownership if they were to pay taxes.

Um I threw in the overhead in there so you could understand that what we have provided for the commercial market analysis that was done.

Um we removed all of our administrative expenses out of our financial statements for them, so they would not take into account what we actually pay out to maintain and operate that building so that it could have some commercial value associated with it.

It's not operated as a commercial project or building for over 40 years.

So we had to make some assumptions of the information that we gave to the uh professionals to create those market analysis, and we had to pull out what we knew they could take and create those values with.

So to answer your question, all of our tenants do pay taxes on their business equipment tax.

It's not a prorated property tax on their personal on their area.

So I mean, I call it a business equipment tax, but that's probably I misspoke.

But it is on their office spaces, and they do pay those property taxes to Butte Silverbow.

The property tax number at the bottom of the uh financial analysis that you were given is not reflective of those tenants paying that.

That would be if a private individual took that property and paid taxes on it.

Commissioner O'Larry, follow-up.

So thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Director Burns, so you're saying that the that the taxes that they pay, do you know what that number is the total for the building uh for what the individual tenants paid to the treasurer?

Director Burns.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan, Commissioner O'Larry, members of council.

No, I don't, I am not privy to their their tax bills.

They don't come to me.

They go directly to the tenants.

Commissioner O'Leary, follow up.

Yes, so I guess unfortunately that was not that was not included in either of the market analysis, that value because we're we're taking in that money as a county, but then it's not being reflected as rents on the uh on the financial statement.

Director Burns, any response?

I would just say I am not sure how you I'm sorry, uh Chairman Morgan, Commissioner O'Larry.

Um any individual plays pays property taxes for their property or their business, um ButteSilver Bow does not we're we're a government entity, so I'm not sure if a private individual would count property taxes towards their income or their rents.

So I'm not really sure how you make that draw that line.

Director Burns, uh I have a question.

So I know originally this building was used as the incubator building, and and it was in it it was intended for the business to move into there until they basically got their feet on solid ground and then they moved out from there.

Tonight we heard an individual has been there for 13 years.

Is that common practice or is that because it's not being used as that incubator type thing?

And and the only question that I I have with that is I know there's a rule that says that the city county can't kind of operate as a business and compete against the corporate world.

And to me, that might be kind of blurring those lines a little bit if that's the case.

I could be wrong, but I want to ask that question.

Uh thank you, Chairman Morgan, uh, members of council.

So to answer your question, uh I think I'd start with we have not been operating as as a true incubator where we you know incubate startup businesses and then push them out into the world to to uh prosper.

Um we have multiple tenants that do have have been in the building for a long period of time, as you've heard.

Um they are you know thriving there, which is is great, um, and they have a great location, they're doing good business there.

Um, but we are as a county subsidizing that effort.

Um we are not efficient landlords.

Um I don't I think we have great people that do great work, but we don't we're not in the business where we are really great at being a landlord.

I mean we have multiple departments that have to respond for different issues.

If we really wanted to be in the business world and operate this building as a true business, um I would recommend that we contract out um to a management company to manage the building for us, and they could do it a lot more efficiently than you know uh public works being called, building and public facilities being called, myself, others to um understand what issues are happening with the building and and take care of them.

Um so that I guess I hope I answered your question.

And and just one follow-up on that.

So I know last week or whatever I asked the question of i i if we truly feel that this is a a building that Butte Silver Bow should not own.

We're not landlord as you look at the income coming in in that sense.

What why would we not try to just sell it for what it should be worth and and not have any stipulations on the deed or just sell it?

What why would we not do that?

Uh thank you, Chairman Mormon.

Morgan, members of council.

I believe that um when we looked at writing this RFP, we we uh associated it with a market value that was determined by professionals, two different ones, um, that I believe we set the value at the lower end of what they valued it at 450,000.

We said that was a starting point.

So someone who is interested in buying this building can give us more than the 450 if they'd like to, and we would consider that.

We are asking them to honor the current leases that are in place.

We've worked very hard to get our leases up to date.

Um, and you know I think that a building that is full of tenants with leases is much more valuable than a building that has vacancies and and no leases in it.

So I do believe that we will get offers from, you know, maybe the the maybe the best we'll get is 450.

I don't know.

I wouldn't see that, but I think that we wanted to write this RFP in a sense that you know we would start with that with those conditions.

I understand some people think those are very lofty conditions and very Pollyanna-ish, that someone would be that good hearted to keep operating the building in its current sense.

But I believe that it was in the spirit of good community uh interaction to include that language.

And when we work with someone who wants to put in uh RFP to purchase this property, um I think that we have the ability to work with them on that purchase and sale agreement and put in some stipulations if we so chose.

Um that can be done.

We I'm not saying we have to do that.

That's part of the negotiation at the end of the day, seeing what we get as offers.

The other option that we could do as Butte Silver Bow and our property sale ordinance allows us to do this, we can auction the building with no conditions and no stipulations.

We can say it's for sale.

Tell us what you'll give us.

Um I just that's not how I I like to do things a little bit more uh I guess methodically and understand what we're getting into and who we're in vet those buyers instead of just taking the highest bid from someone we have not had a chance to interact with or um understand what their intentions are.

Um so that's that's why it was written that way.

And and just one last follow-up, Commissioners.

So the going theme tonight is speaking about the communication that's before us.

This communication would authorize you to go out for an RFP to receive bids, if you will, for this property.

That it's not committing the county to selling the property.

We may not get any bids, or we may get one that is, yeah, beneficial for us to consider.

So if we were to approve this to go out for bids, we could see if in fact Morgan's proven wrong that somebody does want the building with the with the tenants in it, and we could see that and then make a decision on it.

And then if that RFP doesn't work out, we still have options to maybe go out for a different appraisal or or something like that.

So just staying with that communication, that's what would be before us tonight.

Is it is that correct?

Thank you, Chairman Morgan, members of council.

Yes, I was asking permission to issue the RFP and see what responses we do get.

Okay.

Thank you.

On the question, Commissioner Callahan.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

I guess I want a little clarification.

Last week we were under the impression that this building doesn't bring in tax revenue.

Every tenant in there has a tax statement that they have to pay for property tax.

So that needs to be corrected.

Everyone on their rent, there's a there's a there's a fee in there for the property tax to cover the taxes on the building or something similar to that.

No, I'm certainly not privy to everything.

But I I can say, you know, it was a little bit sugar-coated last week on this is a white elephant for us.

And you completely left out how much Butte Silver Bow uses that building.

I know in my tenure, I've gone to dozens of meetings in that uh conference room.

We used to do meetings in the conference room down on the main floor.

We lost that conference room because the the county attorney's office needed new offices.

So now we don't even have many places in the courthouse to have conferences.

That building gets used quite a bit.

Uh there's also a room in there that they do training for the police department, fire department, emergency service people use it up there.

That building gets used a whole lot more.

And in the last year, Butte Silver Bow was purchased.

We spent a lot of money buying buildings, putting offices in we had people in chubby holes down in the basement because we didn't have room for them.

So we want to sell an asset for a minimum amount of money on something that we need.

Commissioner Callahan, I is there a question there?

I that was a comment.

Okay.

She can comment back if she'd like.

Okay.

Director Burns, anything?

Okay.

Any other questions from the Commissioners?

Uh Commissioner Anderson.

At one point it was stated that uh everybody was month to month at this, and then other uh comments uh stated that there was some leases involved.

Can you uh make any clarification on that?

Director Burns.

Thank you, uh Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Anderson, members of council.

There are leases in place.

I believe Commissioner O'Leary was reading in one of the market analysis where they stated that they were month to month.

That was a misstatement.

Um I would definitely have to look at that and reread.

But they um we do have leases in place for most.

I think there's one tenant who has refused to sign a lease with us up to date, but everyone else has current leases.

Follow Commissioner Anderson.

Please uh on that.

And are any of the tenants or any of the office spaces or any of the uses of the building currently uh is any space or offices in the building currently used by BSB offices or personnel?

Director Burns.

Uh thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Members of council, we have one Butte Silver Bow, one official Butte Silver Bow office in the building, and that is for the coroner, but they are in the process of relocating.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

Uh follow-up, Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Uh, just a clarification on that point.

I'm looking at the the lease or the um rent roll that you sent me.

It appears that there's at least eight of the 39 that are either vacant, not paying rent, or uh or not paying rent because they're you know some butte silver bow adjacent uh looks like the the extension office does not pay rent.

The there's a couple storage units that are I don't know whose those are, but they don't pay rent uh or maybe their BSB storage units.

Silver Boat Disabilities does not pay rent, uh we have at least uh two vacancies.

Is is that all correct?

Director Burns.

Thank you, Commissioner, uh Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Larry.

So the storage units are just that, they're storage, they are not leased space, they are storage of uh cleaning supplies, other things like that.

Um furniture that's left behind by tenants gets pushed into storage into these rooms.

Um the Silver Bow the Disabilities Council was associated with Butte Silver Bow.

They own no longer are associated with Butte Silver Bow.

Um, so they will be paying rent.

Um that is being rectified this fiscal year.

Um so that is uh um gonna be a rent payer.

Um the MSU Extension Office.

Um I'm not sure what agreement they have with us with Butte Silver Bow, but they have not been charged rent.

Um they have a Butte Silver Bow budget, so technically, okay, the coroner and MSU extension are linked to Butte Silverbow.

Okay.

Commissioner Boyle said a no question.

Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you again, Mr.

Chairman Morgan.

Uh so I guess my my question for you is well, one follow-up question, and then I'll then I'll pose the bigger question.

Is there a reason why we use two different cap rates?

I mean, I was that just the choice of the of the two folks that were doing market analysis.

One was seven and a half, one was ten.

That difference ends up being several hundred thousand dollars in in difference in value.

Director Burns.

Chairman Morgan, uh Commissioner Larry, members of council.

Yes, we left that up to the professionals to determine which cap rate they thought was appropriate.

Any other questions by other commissioners?

Just check.

Seeing none, Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Uh so I I guess you know, uh, when I look at this, I'm seeing between vacancies, people that don't pay rent because of their their association with the county.

Uh and the fact that many of these occupants are most of these occupants are paying below market rate.

I I did a calculation, came to that we're we're making about 45 percent of what the market would get for this building.

So we're bringing in about 45 percent of what the market would get.

If we sell this building to a developer, of course, what they're gonna do is let the leases expire and then they're gonna increase the rents.

Is that that's you know what what a developer likely will do unless we restrict that in some kind of way.

If we restrict it, then it for the future uses, then we are devaluing the property by ourselves, you know, on our own behalf.

If we don't restrict it, don't restrict those um leases from being raised, the the price from being raised, they will raise them.

And so then they're gonna have a building that is producing eighteen thousand seven hundred dollars a month, and they will get the valuation out of that building.

I guess my question to you is I I understand and and agree with the desire to keep this as a as a business development center, but if we're gonna just give the building away way below market rate, why don't we just do as you said, contract it out to somebody to operate it as a business development center and keep the asset instead of offloading it and letting somebody else benefit from that?

Director Burns, anyway.

Uh thank you, Commissioner Morgan.

Um Commissioner O'Leary, I don't have an answer to that.

I guess that my recommendation is to issue an RFP and try to sell this property in the manner that I think is the best way for this community to do so.

Um it's up to this body whether you agree with that or not.

Um and I would encourage you to vote the way you see fit.

Commissioner Anderson Thank you very much.

Uh kind of piggybacking on of a couple other things that was said in the last little bit in uh my memory.

Has and I I don't know who the best person would be to answer it.

I don't I I don't believe honestly would you be, but maybe uh chief executive might have some insight on it.

Has Butte Silverbow recently bought or leased any outside office base for offices.

Chief Executive Gallagher.

Uh Chairman Morgan, Commissioner Anderson, we have bought the Butte Readiness Center.

That's one of the purchases we have had, but uh we have Butte Silverbow um departments in the Readiness Center.

Um we're you utilizing that space that became available.

It's um those departments all will be through their own departments will be paying different rates at that because they have to pay utilities, things like that.

But it's different than what we're doing here.

The coroner's office we're going to relocate down to there as well.

It accommodates for for is is Commissioner Callahan talked about is you know office space that is needed.

He gives us some other opportunities to to locate out there.

The one thing that I do that was talked about was that if we are going to keep it that we would operate it as a business center, not as a business development center, and have it out there and have a property management person to that.

That could be the other alternative, but then it again all we're doing is we're competing against local market out there.

Um that's that's not our intent.

We're we're not great landlords for other tenants.

We're great landlords for butte silver bow departments that are needed.

And so that's what we're looking at as is making a determination to sell this building.

And so that's where we're looking at as making a determination to sell this building is that truthfully we don't have the uses that are needed in there, and we do have other spaces that we are utilizing for for meetings, meeting space, things of that nature that uh we utilize now.

Thank you, Mr.

Chief Executive.

Uh Commissioner Thatcher.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Said it once, and I'll say it again.

We are not in the business of real estate, uh, nor do I believe we should be in the proper uh business of property management.

Um in my opinion, I can understand where Commissioner Leary is coming from, and I appreciate his due diligence and all of the research he's done on this.

But your comment about why don't we just operate it as this or or so and so is regardless of how if we sell it at 450,000 dollars and we leave the stipulation in that they have to maintain their leases for however many years, whatever, and then the developer chooses to do whatever they want with it, that that is perfectly okay.

Then it's on the tax role.

The developer is choosing to do whatever he wants with the building that he bought, as long as he maintains the stipulations that may be set forth, it is back on the tax role.

But Silver Bow is benefiting.

That is why I'm so I don't understand I don't understand the argument.

Regardless, Butte Silver Bow benefits from this, we get this back on the tax roll in full if we sell this building.

Am I missing something?

Commissioner Anderson, follow-up, I apologize.

Thank you very much, Chairman.

Uh just just kind of a couple comments on this.

Uh the original Commissioner Callahan Thatcher just the original purpose of this, and I understand it's not really what it's uh been doing the last little bit, uh, was to uh help businesses start off and to be a business incubator.

And and I believe that that is uh very good and worthwhile goal.

We have quite a few uh well, we have the BLDC, we have headwaters, and we have other groups in town right now that that's their purpose, that's their goal, that's their mission.

They do what they can to bring uh businesses in to town, uh oftentimes businesses where they need to have uh things, what I think would be a better use of this than selling it to some unknown entity would be to contact the BLDC and just offering the building to them and say, hey, look at we have this building, it this is the use of it.

I'm sure they know all of this, and and see if they would have purpose with it.

It would keep it on the tax roles, we'd be making money, it would help the businesses that are already there.

We'd have some control over it, like you said, would be nice.

You you obviously think that because those are the stipulations that you put in the RFP.

So it would be a way that we could satisfy everything and not have to worry about it.

The one caveat there would be if BLDC or those groups wanted to take it on.

But it'd be a nice form of income even if they didn't raise the race a hundred percent, like Commissioner O'Leary was saying, but uh uh just partially, you know, an extra 10,000, 15,000 would go along great to help them and some of the other things as far as the rest of the proposals I or the other questions and things that were brought up.

I I don't like being landlords either, but we are in a lot of cases, and we can't just pick and choose which ones we're gonna be landlords for.

I well, I guess we can, but we should at least be consistent then.

And if we own a building that we've already invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into and we know what we have, then why are we buying outside buildings when we could just move things into a more centrally located?

So just some of the comments on the inefficiency of government and uh some of the stupidity of that we're often called out on on social media, et cetera.

Thank you.

Chief Executive Gallagher.

Commissioner uh thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Commissioner Anderson, um I would totally disagree with what you just said.

Um the building at the Readiness Center offered facilities that were needed for Butte Silver Bow that could not be function, could not function at the uh business development center.

They had no place that could that happen.

There's there is uh shops, there is land, there is areas where we can put vehicles.

So it it to say that stupidity to buy that on a property that actually had immense value, and we got it at a very discounted price to do that to be able to facilitate Bute Silverbow functions.

So I totally disagree with when you said that we could just move it in there.

That that that couldn't have been possible, just so you know.

One one comment that I would would just comment on is the communication that's before us again is to issue an RFP.

And if this body doesn't want to move forward with an RFP, that could be simply made in the form of a motion to deny the communication.

If the commission feels that it's a communication worth betting, you know, not speculating what could happen, what couldn't happen, let's see what happens, they could very simply make a motion to move forward with the process.

And so that would be my comment on this is that the council has a decision to make.

Is it worth going forward with it or is it not?

And what is what would be the council's pleasure?

Uh I'm gonna go to Commissioner O'Neill and then Commissioner Anderson.

Follow up.

This time this time I'd like to make a motion that we approve communication 2025-420.

If I may add up that I just we have stipulations on it's minimum price of 450, and it's not like it's gonna sell.

We we also get the opportunity to decide what the RFP is.

So we would if somebody tomorrow runs in and makes the offer, we get to uh decide whether we want to sell it or not.

So there's been a motion made and seconded, and Commissioner O'Neal, please make sure I'm correct.

You're you're making a motion to concur with communication 2025 420 and placing on file.

Is that correct?

Commissioner Thatcher on your second.

Is that the same?

Okay.

So there's been a motion made and seconded.

Is there anything on the question?

Commissioner Anderson.

Uh you can go to the Commissioner O'Leary first, please.

Commissioner O'Leary.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

I guess a couple things.

First one, the question has been been posed, you know, why we are in the landlord business.

We are already in the landlord business.

We have buildings out at the TIFID uh that we rent out to people.

They are uh a significant driver of economic development in our community, and I think that that has been a unbridled success.

You know, we we did those developments with the purpose of driving business development.

That's what this building was for back in the 80s when it was first put into place.

I agree it isn't operating the way that it once did and and isn't serving that function, but I don't think that it is smart for us to just unload a building at way below market rate for some purpose that it I I mean I can't I can't divine this.

I can't figure out why we're so happy to put a minimum bid price of 450 on this thing.

I'll remind everybody the state valued this building at 2.6 million.

I think that's ludicrous.

I think that is a way overvaluation of the building, but a million dollars is is not unreasonable.

I think probably the market rate, if you put this thing on the market would sell for $8,000, $900,000.

And the and the tenants would, if you doubled the rents on all the tenants, they'd still be below market rate, and they would still be getting a good deal.

So to me, it's a really hard thing for us to do to proceed with an RFP when the bottom line number is so unfair to the taxpayers, to the people that we represent.

We are underselling them by selling this building for for this ridiculous price.

So I I'd like to make a substitute motion that we approve this RFP and place on file and put the minimum price at $750,000.

There's been a motion that died of lack of second.

So we would go back to the original motion of concurring and placing on file.

I I again I just want to clarify the motion that's before us on the table does not approve the sale of the building.

It so we still have an option if if it comes back and it's not 400, we can always decline the proposal and then do something different.

So I just want the commissioners to know this motion is not selling the building.

So the public knows this building does not get sold tonight based on our motion.

Commissioner Anderson.

Uh thank you.

In response to my stupidity comment, that was more of a reflection on continuing to sell county assets for well below uh the market and uh face value of said properties.

Uh that said, I would like to make the substitute motion to deny communication and place it on file.

Okay, there's been a motion made and seconded to deny communication 2025 420 and place on file.

Is there anything on the question?

Does everybody understand the motion?

On the question, Commissioner Thatcher.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

I I guess I'm unsure why we ask V Turbo employees to do their jobs when all we do is sit up here and do them for them.

So I just want to make that comment.

Thank you.

Okay, there's been a motion made and seconded to deny communication 2025 420.

Is there anything on the question?

Would everyone please vote?

Would anyone like to change their vote?

Would the clerk please record the vote?

Five yay, five nay.

Motion fails because it's tied five to five.

So we'll move to the previous motion of concur and place on file.

Is there anything on the question?

Okay.

Is everyone understand the motion as we are voting?

The motion before us is to concur with communication 2025-420 and place on file.

Would everyone please vote?

Okay, would anyone like to change their vote?

Would the clerk please record the vote?

Six yay for nay.

Thank you.

Motion passes.

Moving on to public comment on any public matter not on tonight's agenda.

If there's a member of the public that would like to speak on any item that's not on tonight's agenda, I would ask that you come up to the podium and state your name and address for the record.

I would um ask that comments be kept as close to three minutes as possible.

Please state your name and address for the record.

Ready for us, 2000 Roberts Avenue.

Labor Day is coming up.

Staden Staddon Parks having the Labor Day picnic.

You guys should all go.

Cool people will be there.

So if you're cool, you'll be there.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other public comment on any public matter not on tonight's agenda?

An announcement, Commissioner Shea?

I just want to remind judiciary that we're reconvening after the meeting.

Okay.

Another follow or another uh I guess announcement, Chief Executive.

Thank you, Chairman Morgan.

Just uh to let people know we are still planning on doing water down at uh at the Civic Center.

We're lining that up, but Montana Resources is also going to do a water delivery uh for people down at uh at McGruff Park as well.

So people have options of where to go.

So they posted on there that they will be uh offering water down at McGruff Park tomorrow as well.

Okay.

With that being said, I'd ask for a motion to adjourn.