Size for the amount of voters that are in Butte Silverbow.

So hopefully we'll get a few more over the next month or so.

Survey responses indicate that residents are interested, potentially interested in seeing changes to their local government, including number of commissioners, the form of local government, and how decisions are made.

Some of the comments expressed various frustrations with local government.

There were a lot of discussions about transparency, improving technology, improving the way that residents are able to interact with their local government.

You can kind of read through each of these topics that were summarized.

So one under the government structure section was we need highly qualified people making a few key decisions, fewer meetings, less administrative business, and more focus on issues that matter.

Under the city manager model, one comment that kind of kind of stood out to me was Butte is a highly complicated city with lingering perception and economic issues.

The city manager is clearly the best solution for this role.

One comment was neighborhood councils would help make sure commissioners vote for what their district wants, not just what they want personally.

There was discussion about how neighborhood councils work in other communities, and that they you know could all have a similar format, similar bylaws, that type of thing, and that's a way for residents to kind of another method for them to have their voices heard.

There were a lot of comments on the fire department.

One was when it comes to fighting fires, there should never be confusion.

A system with clear control and authority while maintaining some autonomy for volunteers would be ideal.

Most of these are anonymous, so they don't have names to them.

The survey was also anonymous, saw those comments come in just without a name associated.

You know, we do know that we are our local governments often are a steer, you know, they're they're making do with what they have.

Um departments were particularly talked about as being underfunded.

Um of the quotes was the library is underfunded and understaffed.

Most departments are doing the best they can, but they're stretched thin, and I think that was a sentiment that was repeated pretty much by every department head that came and spoke to the commission.

Lots of comments about transparency, like I said before, um, and improving just the technology and the ease with which people interact with their local government.

So one comment on transparency was post-meeting announcements, videos, and draft minutes within 48 hours.

People want to know what decisions are being made and why.

So public safety and confidence in local government were frequent themes.

Umrage the study commission to consider structural reforms, while others emphasize the importance of building trust and accountability.

And one comment that I wanted to share.

Uh, thank you for your hard work on this.

This is a pivotal point for Butte, and we have a real opportunity to improve how our government works.

So again, just wanted to provide a brief overview of the outreach efforts for this initial phase.

Um, there will be a report compiled for the commission that's a much more in-depth um summary of all the comments.

So, any questions?

Ms.

Dolan?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um Shana, thank you so much for this information.

Very helpful.

I just wanted to ask, I keep getting questions from people on the street that want to know how can we get more people to do the survey.

The survey really is a critical piece, and to get more respondents, more folks across the board that may not engage in you know public meetings every week.

Um, but uh any more ideas on that?

Uh great question, Commissioner.

Um, we have had a really good response from the article in the Montana Standard a few days ago.

Um they did a great job of putting the the link and the QR code.

We got another maybe 60 in the last couple of days, so that's been really effective.

Um has gone out in all the newsletters, social media, um, the water bill.

The responses do keep coming in.

I'll say that.

The few more trickle in every day.

So, like I said, I'm hoping to get at least maybe a hundred more in the next month or so.

Um, but I think we can push it out through all of those avenues again.

I think as this process goes on, there's more awareness created in the community.

So maybe just going out through all of those avenues again.

People that they haven't yet can take the survey.

Quick follow-up.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um I I did uh I I don't know if this was mentioned on party line this week that Ron Davis had agreed to do the hard copies if folks wanted to stop by KBOW radio to have a hard copy there and maybe hard copies at the chamber or some other places for folks that are maybe intimidated by a QR code.

I know I have been in the past, would like a hard copy and do it short uh long hand as opposed to on the computer, so that might be an idea too.

Thanks.

Excellent suggestions.

Any other comments or questions for Ms.

Adams?

Thank you so much, and thank you for helping us with our outreach efforts, they are much appreciated.

Yep, thank you.

Okay, folks, I will um I'd like to give an overview in the format for this evening and then I'll open the public hearing.

So, first of all, make sure you've signed in if you are providing comment, and if you have a written comment that you'd like to provide, please provide it to Ms.

Boyd at the front desk.

Um the work of our commission has been described as to research and recommend possible changes to the charter.

And as such, we've been visiting with our department heads, the public, and elected officials regarding what those changes might look like and what they might need to be.

Um and so we'll walk through the four issues that have come up as I guess you'd say the most urgent tonight.

If you are providing comment not on one of those issues, we ask you to provide that comment at the end of us walking through the four issues.

Um that just allows us to kind of stay organized in our thought process and as we're listening to things.

Um I do have a timer.

I'm going to put it on the desk here.

It will light up green at three minutes.

We've asked you to please be um kind and courteous to everyone who's providing comment and limit your comments to three minutes.

I will allow it to go to five minutes, but I will gavel down at five minutes and you'll have to um have take a seat at that time, please.

Um to date the four major topics are um the number of commissioners that we have on our council.

The second is the form and structure of government if we should have a chief executive or a city manager, neighborhood councils have been brought up as a possible uh solution to having greater transparency within our our government and having more access for the commissioners to their neighborhood.

And then um finally the changes to the charter in regard to the fire services that are provided through Butts of Verbo and the Um interactions between our volunteer and paid fire departments.

So tonight the order that I'd like to go in is neighborhood councils first, fire services second, number of commissioners third, and then chief executive or city manager fourth.

As I've stated, if you want to make comment on all four issues, go ahead and take the microphone, provide that comment for all four.

If you're germane to just one, please come up when I call to just that issue.

And then finally, as I stated before, just to repeat, if you have a comment that is not related to any of those four issues, please feel free to provide that, but we'll do that at the end uh after the four issues have been heard.

Um so to open the meeting, I have to gavel.

So I'd like to call the public meeting to or public hearing to order.

And um, Ms.

Boyd, do we have proof of publication?

Yes, I provided it to you earlier today.

Thank you very much.

And commissioners, you also have that proof of publication.

So starting our public hearing, I'd like to call for uh folks who would like to talk about neighborhood councils to the podium.

Please state your name and address for the record.

Right, Bandrob 2601, Grand Avenue, Butte, Montana.

Sorry, I'm getting a little slower.

Neighborhood councils.

Something we've been working on since 2010.

Our first attempt was to the council of commissioners, requesting them after the Greeley area plan to authorize, recognize with a memorandum of understanding, the Greedy Neighborhood Community Development Corporation as a neighborhood as one of the possible neighborhood councils.

They did not put their procedure, or we got the procedure through the rules committee.

We got it to the judiciary committee.

We had a three-page definition of what constitutes a neighborhood community council.

So as far as we're concerned, and then of course it got shot down, but we won't go into that.

What we're proposing that we put into the charter is number one, there shall be neighborhood community improvement councils according to the proposed ordinance 14-8.

That's on record, it's in the file.

Please look at it.

Those neighborhood community councils should have by commissioner district, and those commissioner districts the commissioner should function as the instigator and the coordinator, not a voting member.

We are not talking about homeowner associations.

Those neighborhood community councils within a district should get together once a year, as in other cities in Montana, and select a delegate to a Greater Butte Silverbow Community Council.

A greater Butte Community Council.

That council already has in the charter that it shall make recommendations to advisory recommendations to the Council of Commissioners.

Not authority, but advisory.

Political parties work on polarization.

What the function and importance of the neighborhood community improvement councils is to bring together, as there used to be in Butte, over twelve different neighborhoods, meeting at the fire halls in the community, and re-kindle what used to be the Butte spirit.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Banderob.

Other comments related to neighborhood councils.

I'd like to follow up, Mr.

Van Derov here.

My name is Larry Winstlow.

I wouldn't be here if he hadn't emailed me.

I think there's a lack of communication.

And definitely contempt between the government and the people that live here.

There's contempt for the law.

Let me explain something to you.

Community councils are the law.

It's not something you can opt out of.

Webster's dictionary defines duty.

An act or an obligation required by one's rank or position.

This is not something you can opt out of.

I'm taking the the issue to district court.

Okay, we're done with that.

And that's the reason.

This should this should be packed.

You should actually have citizens on your committee.

I ran for this committee.

I did not get elected, and I'm glad I did not because I can accomplish more outside of this farce.

You you have to look at the law and read what these people are doing.

There's a string of violations.

Basically, there's no administration.

There's no coordination between the city services, the water sewer, pavement.

The jobs are done sloppily.

As far as the fire department, that's administration.

That's a lack of administration.

And you have to consider unlawful use of taxes.

I don't think you people have studied the problem.

That's all I got to say.

Thank you, Mr.

Winstall.

Are there other comments related to neighborhood councils?

Please uh remember to state your name and address.

My name is Karen Sargent.

I live at 3021 Josephine Street in the flat.

Um I support the uh community councils.

I think uh Butte Silverville has a real problem with accountability, and I think establishing these councils would allow our representatives from our neighborhoods to be accountable to the council to get some things done.

So I wholeheartedly support the council idea.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Other comments related to neighborhood councils.

Second call for comments related to neighborhood councils, and a third call for count for comments related to neighborhood councils.

Okay, thank you.

So hearing none, I'd like to uh move to changes in the charter in regard to fire services in Butte Silverbow.

Madam Chair, members of the commission, my name's J.R.

Richardson, 1303 Caledonia Street, and I wanted to take this opportunity uh to maybe give a little history since I uh appear to be the last fire coordinator that was in Butte Silver Bowl.

And uh I'm gonna try and go through this quickly.

I was hired in 1980 as a budget analyst for Butte Silver Bowl, and those duties included monitoring budgets and meeting with department heads and elected officials on their budgets.

Part of those budgets that I was monitoring were the fire department, and the fire coordinator at that time was Dick Trathaway.

And if you knew Dick Trethaway, he was the nicest guy in the world.

Uh it was like meeting with your grandfather when you met with him on your budget, but Dick didn't like budgets.

So he he didn't understand parameters of budgets.

If somebody needed something, Dick bought it.

So I I got to spend a lot of time with the fire coordinator at that time.

Uh and then in uh 1982, 83 is when the mining slowed down and eventually shut down, and we lost a third of our tax base at that time.

So we were going through hiring freezes and any cuts were through attrition as a priority, and then hopefully we didn't have to cut existing positions.

Uh we had wage freezes, we had budget freezes, we had tax freezes, we had everything.

And and through that time, Dick remained the fire coordinator.

And again, a budget was nothing that bothered Dick.

Um finally, in uh I think it was in 1984 that Dick retired.

And the reason Dick retired was because he's trying to save the fire department some money.

That's just the kind of guy he was.

He thought if he could save some positions, he would retire.

When Dick retired, Phil Paul became the fire coordinator.

Phil was the administrative assistant to the chief executive, the position that Jim Cambridge has now.

So Phil assumed the duties of fire coordinator, and then unfortunately in 1986, Phil passed away from cancer.

So again, we're still in all of our freezes, and there's no money for either an administrative assistant or a fire coordinator now.

So I drew the short straw.

Don Peoples called me down.

At this time, I had become the assistant budget director.

He called me down and asked me to assume the duties of fire coordinator, which I did.

At that time, if he asked me to go out and shovel the sidewalks at six in the morning, I would have done it.

You're just happy to have a job.

They were tough times.

So in 1986, I was assigned at that time what was called the acting fire coordinator.

I don't know over the time if it changed, my title changed to fire coordinator for I remained acting fire fire coordinator, but I I remained in that position until the 1995-96 charter, which eliminated the fire coordinator position and instated the I don't know if it's a director of fire operations or the director of fire services, which basically was that the uh fire chief would assume the duties of overseeing the fire department.

Uh now why would the assistant budget director be the fire coordinator?

We're still not filling vacant positions.

I was most knowledgeable of the fire department budget, and uh by this time the fire chief had assumed most of the operational duties within the fire, the entire fire department.

So it really became budgetary matters that I was dealing with.

I chaired the fire advisory committee, which was made up of three volunteer members and three members of the professional department.

I'm sorry I refer to it as the paid still, but um, but those were dealing with money issues at that time at the fire advisory council.

Uh yeah, there were intermittent squabbles that would come up with responding to calls and things like that.

But they were minimal, and by the time I was it was phasing out, they were non-existent.

It was just pretty much money issues, and we had no money.

So it made my unfortunately it made the job pretty easy.

So I see.

Uh oh, am I still on all right?

Okay.

Um so anyway, the that that is how it transitioned to me, and that is how it became was removed from the charter.

At that time, uh, I believe uh when it was recommended to delete or to change make those changes to the to the ordinance in the charter in 96, probably 95, 96 in that area.

Um it was actually Bill Fisher who was the uh chief of the Boulevard Fire Department that made that suggestion, and I think it was made out of just what I said.

The decisions for the fire coordinator had pretty much phased out.

It was money issues at the fire advisory council.

You would get the volunteers to come in the paid, they would come in, give you their requests, and you didn't have any money.

So you just kind of said, okay, we'll take well at the end of the year.

If we have some money, we'll look at this.

But it uh that was the rationale for doing away with the fire coordinator position.

Uh it had become just monetary decisions, and the fire chief was pretty much running the place.

Thank you, Mr.

Richardson.

Other comments related to the fire advisory, or excuse me, the changes to the charter in regard to Butte Silver Bow Fire Services.

Good evening.

For the record, I'm Ted Burry, B U R Y.

I reside at 922 Lexington Avenue here in Butte Montana.

Uh Butte native, born and raised here, plan on dying here.

Absolutely no hurry on that one.

I'd like to see the Chicago Cubs at least win one or maybe two more World Series.

As a former commissioner, I'd be remiss my duties if I didn't tell everyone in attendance tonight.

There is 169 days till St.

Paddy's Day.

Not that I'm counting.

Madam Chair, the rest of the commission, in the interest of time, I'd rather just turn my paperwork in and let everybody review it at the at their discretion.

I want to tell everybody you're doing a great job.

I applaud each and every one of you for trying to make our great community beauty a better place to live.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Burry.

Other comments regarding fire services.

Again, Karen Sargent 3021 Josephine Street here in View.

Um I am also going to turn over my suggestions.

Uh, but the biggest change that I'd like to see this commission take a really good look at is I have 30 years of first responder emergency services experience.

I am a professionally trained emergency services responder, okay, in those 30 years.

Um I think that I was also on the study commission uh many years back in Pulson.

So I know what you guys are doing and how you're doing it and what you have to go through.

I would like to see uh you all remove any and all wording pertaining to the volunteer fire districts in the sections A of the Charter.

And the biggest one is um section 7.03 uh edit shall be composed of the paid fire department and volunteer fire departments in the city county.

So I would like to see that.

I would like to see all volunteer wording pertaining to the volunteer fire districts removed from any part of the charter.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Comments related to the fire services.

I hope I'm following protocol here.

Returned Banner of 2601 Grand Avenue.

The question of the volunteer fire departments and the municipal fire departments is a long running one in Butte.

And I haven't really heard any discussion as to the origin and the reasons why we're at this problem we're at today.

I happen to be the husband of a daughter whose father was uh instrumental and building excuse me.

The racetrack fire department or fire hall.

The volunteer fire departments were established because at the time that area was in the county, and the city fire department would not come down and put out the fires in the in the county.

Now I think the most important point is how fast and how efficient can the fire departments get there and do their job, and that I think is what you need to look at.

Uh there is been scuttle butt in the area for a long time that we should terminate the the fire departments that are in the city.

And she was right.

We have two kinds of volunteer fire departments.

We have volunteer fire departments that are now within the city limits.

If you look at the map of Butte Silverbow and 197, those areas were in the county.

Today they are in the city.

So a decision needs to be made.

Are they to be absorbed by the count by the city?

Are the services absorbed by the city, or are they to continue as volunteer fire departments?

Personally, of course, from the Greeley, the volunteer fire department served as more than just a fire prevention or fire suppression.

They were the community centers in the neighborhoods.

And if we're going to talk about trying to rejuvenate neighborhood community associations or organizations, coalitions or whatever, we need someplace to meet.

The Greeley neighborhood community development corporation was working very well.

The fire department was put up as a community service.

The insurance was covered by the by the city county for the events, and then they decided that they didn't have the funding to maintain and keep the fire hall in condition for community activities.

Without the funding that's supposed to be coming from the fire districts going to the volunteer fire halls, then we have a problem, and that has been the major problem.

And that has been the major problem.

And the charter call, I believe it calls for that funding to go to the volunteers, not to the general fire fund.

And then not trickle down to the volunteer fire departments.

So that's the question you need to ask.

If we if we could uh consolidate, what is going to be the response time?

What is going to be the insurance cost?

What is going to be the cost of putting a substation out at the airport and managing it full time?

Those are the questions that should have been on your survey.

Thank you.

Changes to the charter in regard to fire services comments.

Jake Hanley, 3485 Quincy, here today on behalf of IFF Local No.

96.

Chairwoman Brandle, members of the study commission, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak today.

My name's Jacob Hanley.

I'm a firefighter with the Butte Silver Bell Fire Department, and currently serve as secretary for IFF local number 96.

I'm here on behalf of the members of IFF local number 96, their families, which total about a hundred individuals or more to address an ongoing issue that has plagued the community for decades, the structure of our fire service.

There's one central question that keeps rising to the top.

Are the volunteer fire departments in Butte Silver Bow rural fire districts, or are they part of the Butte Silver Bow Fire Department?

Once we answer that question, many other challenges become easier to solve because right now we're operating in a gray area, and that gray area does not serve the public or the firefighters, career or volunteer.

If the volunteers are part of the Butte Silver Bow and they receive public funds to support building maintenance, fuel, apparatus repair, workers' comp, equipment, and insurance, then they should be governed the same way that the career department is by the legislative branch.

That's how oversight works, that's how public accountability works.

You don't get public funding without public responsibility.

But if the VFDs want to be considered rural fire districts, and some of them have expressed exactly that in recent meetings, then they need to operate as independent rural fire districts, and that means following rural fire district law, which clearly states volunteer fire departments or fire districts within consolidated county municipalities may only be organized, created, supported, financed, dissolved, and managed, and their boundaries may only be changed pursuant to the provisions of parts 21 and 23 of chapter 33 of the Montana Code annotated.

You don't get a pick and choose convenient parts from different legal frameworks to suit the moment.

At the same time, we've heard VFD representatives say all they want is their budgets back.

But when asked how much funding they need or whether they can sustain their operations independently, there's no clear answer.

That's unacceptable.

If you're asking to change how public funds are allocated and how emergency services are delivered, you must have a financial plan, which means you either have those numbers or you don't.

On the career side, we operate under a legally binding collective bargaining agreement, and it outlines our responsibilities clearly.

Article 32, section two of our contract states IFF local number 96 members staffing the BSB paid fire department will respond to all fire suppression, EMS, rescue, or related calls within the county where services are needed.

That's why we take issue with any effort to reduce our funding or staffing levels in order to support volunteer departments that are not held to the same operational standards.

This is not about TERF.

This is about safety, the safety of the public and the safety of our personnel.

Our community cannot afford to replace experienced career firefighters with under-resourced volunteer crews that do not offer the same level of training, service, or availability.

Please let us know if there will be any further discussion relating our to relating related to reducing our tax base that could compromise our staffing, as we will be more than happy to give an opinion.

We're often told that we run as one department, and if that's true, then it's time to make it official.

The voters tried to do exactly that with a 1996 study commission commission when they appointed charter admit when they approved charter amendments, eliminating the fire coordinator position and creating the director of fire services to lead a unified department, but the language wasn't strong enough, and the structure's been in limbo ever since.

Let's also remember how we got into the situation.

In 1979, House Bill 392 allowed our volunteer departments in Butte Silver Bow to bypass local authority and operate under state rural fire law.

That law effectively removed the county's ability to make decisions about its own fire protection.

When we tried to correct it with House Bill 547 to return oversight to the local legislative body, it was unfortunately vetoed.

Some critics of House Bill 5, some critics said House Bill 547 moved too fast, but let's be honest, House Bill 392 moved just as fast, and it's caused decades of confusion.

Why is it acceptable when the state overrules local control but not the other way around?

You can't be frustrated with House Bill 547 while ignoring the fact that House Bill 392 is the reason we're in this mess.

We've also heard that all sides need to come to the table.

Well, that table already exists, and it's called the fire advisory board, but there hasn't been able to be a meeting in months.

Meanwhile, two VFDs skip their mandatory annual pump testing despite reminders and flexibility from the director of fire services.

That test directly affects our ISO rating.

The same rating VFDs claim to be jeopardized if House Bill 547 passed.

It should be noted that every self-contained breathing apparatus in Butte Silver Bow needs to be tested annually to ensure that they meet current safety standards.

These tests are conducted by the career department certified SCBA technicians, myself included.

This year there were two VFDs that chose not to bring their SCBAs to station one to be tested.

This creates a dangerous liability for not only the volunteer departments, their members, the districts in which they serve, but also puts the career department's SCBA technicians and Butte Silver Bow in a pretty bad spot.

If there's an accident or catastrophic failure with these SCBAs, Butte Silver Bow could potentially assume any and all liability for the SCBA's failure.

This is unacceptable and creates a severe risk to the firefighters and the public in their districts.

The inconsistencies are frustrating, and it's unfair to blame the director of fire services when he's the one working to bring accountability and structure to a system that has lacked both for SOAP for far too long.

Another deeply concerning proposal is the push to include MCA 7-33-2001 in the charter, a move that would give a volunteer fire chief full command of emergency serv emergency scenes, even if a career incident commander is present.

Mr.

Hanley, that is 515.

Um, do you have those right are those written comments?

Yeah.

Would you like to provide those to Ms.

Boyd?

Yep.

Okay, thank you.

Other comments related to changes in the charter needed regarding fire services.

Good evening, Connor O'Neill, 725 13th Street.

I'm gonna take over where Jake left off.

Um start here.

The Butte Silver Bow is made.

The people of Butte Silver Bow made the position clear in 1996.

Over 7,800 voters approved the amendments to unify fire services under centralized leadership.

Just over 4,000 voted against it.

That should have been the end of this debate.

Most people in this community still believe fire department is unified under Butes for Bow.

After all, nearly every fire service, except for Melroads and Walkerville, is funded through urban fire fund and the emergency service taxing districts.

The voters already made their decision.

We just have to honor it.

Even Anaconda, which has been brought up in these discussions, reviewed our model and wanted no part of it.

They have a career department that functions as such, and VFDs that actually operate in their own rural areas, following state rule of fire district laws.

Our VFDs don't.

If they did, they'd be levying the levying their own districts in taxes.

In closing, we're not asking to eliminate volunteers.

We're asking for structure, clarity, accountability, and a fire service model that actually works.

Volunteers will not survive without BSP support.

But that support must come with oversight and shared standards.

Otherwise, we're funding risk, not safety.

Let's do what the voters asked back in 1996.

Let's create a fire department that's unified, proficient, and built on solid ground.

One that respects both career and volunteer members.

And most importantly, protect our community and citizens we serve.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Other comments related to fire services?

Second call for comments related to fire services.

Third call for comments related to fire services.

Thank you, folks.

Hearing none, I'll move on to uh comments related to the number of commissioners and whether or not those commissioners should be full or part-time.

Second call for comments related to the number of commissioners.

We don't need 12 commissioners.

None of y'all will listen to me anyway.

And can you state your name for the record again, please?

We need to do it again each time.

Thank you, Larry.

Appreciate it.

Okay.

We don't need 12 commissioners.

None of them will listen to me.

None of them will meet with our community groups.

They just sit up here and rubber stamp everything.

There's no dialogue, there's no counterpoint to what they're doing.

A lot of what they're doing is unlawful.

I don't want a chief executive either dictating.

I don't like the decisions he makes.

This greatly affects our neighborhood.

And the decisions made up here have damaged and degraded our neighborhood.

And our neighborhood group wants a say in what goes on.

I I just it it inconceivable that you'd have twelve commissioners and no community councils.

That's just contempt.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Other comments related to number of commissioners.

Number of commissioners.

I hope you recall Council Chair Morgan's comment to you.

It's the number of commissioners in the form of government.

They kind of go hand in hand.

There's problems both ways.

As the commissioners only now have time to focus on policy decisions.

They don't really have time to be neighborhood improvement coordinators.

Functioning to move the requests from the neighborhoods up the channel that isn't created to the proper authorities.

Three in the county, three in the city, county by county population, and city by city population.

Now the map in 1977, the populations were about even.

So we suggest that they should have equal representation and control of their taxation.

So it is taxation with representation.

Here again, you heard during the commissioners that if they're going to do more than just make policy decisions, if you're going to have full-time commissioners.

Six full-time commissioners are too many and are too costly if all they're going to do is determine policy.

But if you put into the charter the additional responsibilities that they shall be neighborhood community improvement, council, instigators, coordinators, promoters, encouragers, and facilitators without being another level of government, or more bureaucracy, but do the function that the people actually expect them to do now, but they're unable to because they all have full time jobs, and I don't blame them for not doing.

They have done a good job for what we pay them, and yes, we're gonna have to pay them a living wage, but we need to put into the charter the additional responsibilities.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Banderob.

Other comments regarding number of commissioners, whether those are full-time and part-time.

Karen Sergeant 302 on Josephine Street.

Um there's been lots and lots of studies done uh on the efficiency of meetings and commissions and things like that, and more is not better.

Okay.

Uh I think Butte Silverbow could do very well with five full-time commissioners that can dedicate their time and efforts to solving the problems here in Butte Silverbow County, which uh there are many, okay.

But I think I think five, I think they need to be full-time uh knowing going into that.

Um they also, and I think you're gonna talk about this later, they need to be, they need to govern the city to chief executive or the city manager or however you want to proceed from there.

They aren't governed by the chief executive, they govern the chief executive, they are his supervisors.

So, anyway, thanks.

Thank you.

Additional comments regarding number of commissioners and whether those are full-time or part-time.

Okay, third and final call for regarding number of commissioners and whether full-time or part-time.

Thank you, folks.

So moving on, um, the last question would be chief executive or city manager comments regarding uh changing the structure of government, the form and structure of government from a chief executive model to that of a city manager model.

I gotta say what you need to do.

Yes, please.

I'm Larry Most.

You're gonna get to know me real well.

So I want to get rid of the chief executive, it's just a dictator position.

He does not represent anybody I know of the people that live here, even though he says he does.

I mean, it's fire department issue is a management issue, is a lack of administration.

I'm very satisfied with race track fire department, and we've had a number of small fires, and they're there.

You need a bigger fire department for uptown.

I understand that.

A council for it's not getting done.

Um you need to connect the government with the people that live here, and the way to do that is community councils, and you need a community council coordinator, you need a city manager to do the daily things, and you need you got to get the city services together.

The water department digs something up here, the sewer department digs something up there, they say it's their problem to fill in their hole over here.

You wind up digging up the street three or four times.

There's no coordination.

You know, you got a superintendent of public works.

I've tried to talk to him.

He won't return my calls.

When I have a problem in my neighborhood, there is nobody I can talk to.

Nobody.

You can't just elect somebody because of their last name.

All right, thank you.

Other comments related to city manager or CE form, CEO form.

My name is Bob Worley.

I live at 3405 Wharton Street here in Butte, Montana.

And I've been advocating for a city manager for probably the last seven to eight years.

And the reason I didn't speak about commissioners is that I think these things run hand in hand.

A city manager and a five commission member that is a full-time commission, I think is the way Butte Silverbow should go right now.

You hire a city manager, he comes in educated.

It isn't like electing a person off of the street to come in and be your uh chief executive.

Uh these guys come in with knowledge on personnel finance, uh, how to handle departments and so forth.

And I think if the five commissioners are used properly, that they can assist a city manager when there are problems within departments in helping that thing out.

So again, and I and I think the uh you guys as a study commission have done a great job in handling these things or handling a city manager situation, and I would hope that the voters of Butte Silver Bow would be educated or get educated on what a city manager does versus what a chief executive does.

Uh so I again thanks for doing your job up here, and I'm advocating for a city manager and a five-member commission that would be full time.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Woolley Merley.

Other comments related to city manager, chief executive form.

Hello, members of the study commission.

Uh for those of you who don't know me.

My name is Dan Strisick.

I live at 3235 Wharton Street.

I've lived there since 1984.

I was fortunate enough to be born in Butte, actually in McQueen edition, who's which is now under the pit.

But anyway, I was raised in Butte.

I was fortunate enough to stay, worked my entire career here, raised my family, and now presently I'm enjoying seeing my son and my youngest daughter who's starting their lives here.

Um, not to mention two of my grandchildren.

Butte is dear to me, and I want my family uh to benefit from this community.

With that said, I come here tonight to offer this commission some ideas of change I think are necessary to move Butte in a forward position.

I sat in this very room on the council commissioners three separate times.

First time was in 2002, the last was in 2018.

Uh as I mentioned, I worked uh my entire career here.

I've owned businesses in Butte and property.

I've seen and heard a lot over the years.

One of the valuable lessons I learned early was to listen, and I was told that's a very valuable component to be successful.

Thus, this commission is hearing over and over changes needed in the way the current government operates with the chief executive and 12 commissioners.

Politics need to be removed, and accountability needs to become present, putting educated and trained people in positions managed by an individual that understands how to operate and consequently grow.

Things have changed over the years.

The city has to be operated with a sense of business, or Butte will remain stagnant into the future.

Specifics of how to structure setting up the government under a city manager need to be worked out.

But the first thing, first things first, as they say, the change has to be recommended to a city manager style, and and that should be recommended by this commission.

I know there are several individuals in this room, one of them just spoke.

They have a lot of knowledge.

They should be consulted with and listened to as this process moves forward.

They're very valuable.

I have a second recommendation to be listened to, that's why it kind of went last.

Uh one that I've it's not on the list.

I've kind of was kind of stunned at that, but maybe that's to come.

It's the super fund issue.

Butte needs to have a strong, well-versed and experienced person overseeing the superfund activities, along with an experienced legal backup as needed.

Butte has lost enough to date on Superfund.

Let's get proactive into the future.

A positive superfund could be Butte's future.

The last issue I was involved with in the commission in November of 2018 was the relocation of the county shops.

Excuse me, sat kind of where Cindy Shaw was there, and uh listened to the uh presentation meeting to the council.

The architect was left to answer any questions regarding the location agreement, and believe me, the commissioners had a lot, including myself.

The superfund coordinator at that time sat in the back of this room with the opposing parties, never engaged in any of that.

The architect obviously could not answer any of the questions regarding the agreement, specific to the loss of a fuel station with the new shops when they were to be removed.

Guess what?

Butte lost.

The fuel station was eliminated and gone.

And what happened a few years later?

It had to be rebuilt at the new site at a huge cost and a very inferior fuel station that they had behind the Civic Center.

And that's not to mention the increase in the fuel costs from day one.

There's been several studies of those costs.

They're astronomical.

Butte has heard enough of the take the deal, it's the best you're gonna get.

It could be worse down the road.

Remove the politics, make informed decisions going forward.

And also, there's a lot of well-versed individuals on the superfund project.

Take advantage of their knowledge and experience.

Incidentally, I wore this shoe shirt in 2018 or a similar shirt, said the same thing.

Um, and I think it's ever more prevalent today, seven years later.

Butte needs to battle.

If we're gonna go forward and move and grow, and my kids and grandkids are gonna have that opportunity in all of yours as well that are here, we need to do that.

So thank you for your time.

You have a tough but a very valuable job to help you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Other comments regarding chief executive or city manager only the fourth time.

Relative to the form of government, I would again recall or ask you to recall Commissioner Morgan's comments.

We have problems with both forms of government.

You need to think outside the box.

The two questions or concerns that have been raised to me when I talk to people about the city manager, is number one, who's going to choose him, and number two, what's the difference?

Because you're talking about a city manager and a mayor.

I didn't hear the word mayor brought up tonight.

Who's gonna choose him?

According to the Montana Code, the council of commissioners have to appoint and contract the city manager, but it does not say anything or dot prohibit the Greater Butte Silver Bowl Community Council to nominate that person.

That's where the people become involved in nominating the person.

They can be rejected by the council, and they'll have to put up a second man.

Also, end of the charter needs to be the termination clause, as in some other ones.

Should be authorized to instigate termination recommendations.

Recommendations only because the council of commissioners have to make the decision.

We're not contesting that.

Our suggestion and recommendation, and that has been used in several of the different counties, is a council of commissioner chair elected at large in place of the mayor.

The council of commissioner chair responsibility is to the people.

And he should be the one when we establish the channel of communication to bring it forward to the manager.

And yes, I support a city manager.

We need someone with experience and qualifications, selected by the people, appointed and contracted by the council, and we need a council chair elected at large, and district commissioners elected by commit by district.

Thank you.

Any other comments or final call for comments regarding chief executive versus city manager form of government?

Karen Sargent 3021, Josephine.

The I support a city manager form of government with five commissioners, county commissioners.

The city manager, the thing you have to be careful of uh when choosing a city manager, you uh have a committee that does that as long, again it's not just the commissioners that do that, it's members of the public, it's it's department heads, it's things like that.

And the reason I tell you this is because I was interim city manager for the city of Poulson for a number of years while we chose a new city manager.

So the process is there.

It's not you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

The process is all there.

You need to make sure that your qualifications for this position cover everything that you need as far as their education levels, their qualifications, what experience do they have?

That's where you need to be very careful about how you line that out.

But it is possible to do people do it all the time.

We went from a strong mayor to a city manager form of government in the time I was there.

They asked me to be the city the uh city manager.

I said no because I love my parks and record than that position.

But it is doable, it's not you don't have to reinvent the wheel, it's a very easy thing to do.

Um so if you have any questions about being a city manager, let me know.

Thank you.

Other comments regarding chief executive or city manager form.

Final call for comments related to chief executive or city manager form.

Okay.

Hearing none, I'll move on to comments not already covered under the four big umbrellas.

Are there any comments that the public would like to bring forward not covered under the four umbrellas?

My name is Larry Winston, in case you've forgotten.

Um part of your review of the government.

I'd highly encourage you to look at the legalities of what's going on.

I I found a string of violations of the law, and I'm bringing them to court, and you need to study these things.

There the reason they get away with so many things in view.

There is no enforcement of the law.

No, the state's not going to come down here and enforce Montana Code.

It's up to you people.

Thank you.

Are there any other public comments at this time?

Hi.

My name is Mary New Fitzpatrick at 1901 Roberts Avenue.

I've been to one commission meeting, but Dan is there.

My concern is I'm a senior citizen.

I get retirement social security.

I'm worried about what are the taxes going to look like when we hire the commissioners and the city manager, and we only we don't have that many people here in butte right now.

It is finally grown again, but I'm concerned what it's going to do to my taxes.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Second call for comments not under the four umbrellas.

And a third call for comments not under the four umbrellas.

Okay.

Thank you, folks.

I appreciate you coming out tonight.

We desperately need to hear from our public.

And if you're willing, would you please pass on that survey code to your friends, neighbors, relatives, random people at Walmart?

We'd appreciate that happening.

And thank you for your time today and your comments.

I'll close the public hearing.

So moving on to announcements, our next bi-weekly meeting will be on October sixth at five PM in the chambers here.

And so folks, I look forward to seeing you next Monday.

Um can I call for a motion to adjourn, please?

Moved by um McCormick and seconded by Dennehy and all those in favor?

Any opposed?

Thank you, folks, and we'll see you next Monday.