Okay, we are going to reconvene the Judiciary Committee meeting.

Um a new roll call is that everybody who was present at the beginning of the meeting is also present at the reconvening.

Commissioner Shea, Commissioner Thatcher, Commissioner Callahan, Commissioner Minkins, Commissioner Healy, Commissioner Gerbrand, and County Attorney Ann Ruth is also in attendance.

We'll go back to item number one, communication number 2026-175.

Mark Phillip, 1150 West Gold, Butte Montana requesting Council of Commissioners to affirm that Butte American finds cause for and recommends that the U.S.

House of Representatives vote to impeach President Trump.

I believe, Mr.

Phillip, did you have anything else to add from your comments earlier?

At this at this moment, anyway.

Sure.

Thank you, Chair Shea.

Just briefly, um, I've provided the letter tonight.

I apologize for not getting that out earlier as I had planned to.

Uh I've had a busy week and other obligations.

Um the letter you see is um streamlined.

Um I'd say in line with my original presentation to the uh the commission with regard to just focusing on the unconstitutional and illegal start of a war of aggression.

Um in the resolution that I provided, um, I expanded beyond those themes and brought up other issues such as the concern for war crimes based on what was in the news at the time.

Um if there's any feedback that can be provided on the resolution and the content.

Um I am open to streamlining that resolution as well and just focusing on the one item of uh an unconstitutional and illegal war of aggression.

Thank you, Mr.

Phillip.

Uh I'll open the floor up to Commissioners.

Commissioner Thatcher.

Uh thank you, Chair Oman Shea.

Thank you, Mr.

Phillip, for the work that you've put into this.

I'm just gonna come out and say I'm still against this.

I I don't I mean I agree with your sentiment.

I still am of the belief though that this is not in our realm of duty as um local commissioners.

I had spoken with somebody else, and you know the idea behind local government is also to make decisions that actually will have an impact on something.

And so in my mind, while this can make some sort of a statement, I feel it's not going to actually impeach the president of the United States for because as we all know, we don't have that power.

Um like I said, I appreciate it.

I I believe firmly in in where you stand, but as and from the opposing side that we've heard from, I'm I also believe that this is more of a partisan move than other members of this body believe, which is totally fine.

But I that's where I struggle.

I don't believe that this is in our realm of duties as local government officials.

I I could I'm sure I'm in the minority on that, but just to get the conversation rolling, and then I I guess maybe we can figure out what to do on this.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Thatcher.

Um County Attorney Anne Ruth.

Uh Chairman Shea, Commissioners.

I also had a couple of individuals uh email and call, and just for the record, uh and so it is clear.

Um it has not been found to be unconstitutional at this time.

That is still an opinion, and it is a lot of people's opinions, and that is fine, but no court or Congress has found to be unconstitutional yet.

So we just need to be clear on that type of language in a letter.

Thank you, County Attorney Enruth.

Any other commissioners?

Commissioner Gerbrand.

Yes, madam chair.

Um I believe that this is uh nonpartisan.

And I also believe in what uh Mr.

Phillip has said in particular, I want to read the very last part of the letter, which says uh I re I request that you impeach President Trump to check this abuse of power, to pass judgment and to in particular here restore honor and moral authority to the United States.

And um this is a way that just the local citizenry can have a voice.

And so I'm definitely in favor of this.

Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Gerbrand.

Um Commissioner Thatcher.

Uh thank you, Commissioner Shea.

I understand that our local delegation or our you know our federal delegation isn't necessarily responsive to the things that we believe.

But unfortunately, in much like you know, Mr.

Gonzalez had stood up here, if if we want to make a a political statement, which whether we believe it or not, is this is a political statement.

One real impact this could have on this community is lack of funding, loss of funding.

Our delegation can say, I mean, they've already done it.

We've already lost funding for a massive project simply because of the community that we live in.

And so I I don't want to run that risk because this isn't something we as a local body cannot impeach the president of the United States.

So even if we choose, even if it's something that I wholeheartedly believe in, and that I don't like the man either, that is not my job in this position, in my opinion.

And I I think that if we sit back here and we go back and forth, I would like for my mindset to change on that, but it it isn't.

My mindset has been like this since the first day that Mr.

Phillip came to this body, and I think that again, whether you believe it's partisan or not, members of this community will see it to be partisan, and I represent both parties in this community, not one or the other.

Whether I personally believe in something or I don't.

So thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Thatcher.

Commissioner Healy.

I was just gonna say thank you for all your hard work, and I did meet with you and um discuss some things.

Um this is a tough one because yeah, we do represent, you know, both sides, and it is being looked at as political.

Um I don't I believe too, also, you know, using your voice, it's not against the law, you know, to have an opinion and to you to use their voice or to support you, because I believe in what you're you're doing as well.

I just I don't know.

I just don't know.

I'm kind of lost.

But I believe in what you're doing, and and I just don't know like if we're nonpartisan, how that that works for us.

Because even though we can say it's not political, it is political.

Thank you, Commissioner Healy.

Anybody else have anything?

Commissioner Callahan Shea.

It's been a long long night.

Well, this is just something that he's asking for that is totally as much as you want anything you we do, they can say is political.

Um this is something that he says is an opinion that they're breaking the law.

Uh he breaks the law on a daily basis.

I mean, this isn't it has nothing to do with what political side you're on, what you believe in or what you don't believe in.

You you gotta is what he's requesting is that we vote to send a letter saying he should be impeached.

I mean, we impeached uh uh president for lying about a girlfriend.

The stuff that goes on now is kids' stuff.

You know, uh lying about a girlfriend's kids' stuff compared to what's going on today.

Um so to try to say it's political and then try to throw in there that they took our funding away because they don't like our community.

Our funding got taken away because of the federal budget cuts that had nothing to do with our community, it was the EPA, period.

I mean, they they completely gutted the be the EPA.

Yes, this same person.

So to turn around and try to defend him when you sit there and watch those things, is I I disagree.

Thank you, Commissioner Callahan.

Commissioner Mankins.

Yes.

Um so I I mean, so that we're all on the same, not the same page, but I mean County Attorney Enruth, if we put a letter together, would that impeach the president?

No, only Congress.

The United States Congress has the authority to impeach the president of the United States, which then has to be affirmed through uh trial in the Senate.

I mean, nobody here's liking what the president is doing right now, but it seems like it is getting to a part where I mean Commissioner Callahan that we are picking sides and representing.

I know that we all represent different people within our district, and it seems to be like we're not doing a fair job of that if we make a decision on this and move forward with this.

Does that make sense?

I mean, you and I have come to a pretty good conclusion on a lot of things as of late and talking through some things as we're doing now.

I mean I value your knowledge on this board, and I'd just like to hear more about just more of it because I believe in uh Mr.

Phillips and what he's trying to do.

But if it isn't going to do anything and that's not our role, and we have to represent everybody in this town, it's just kind of like me doing a cleanup.

I don't care, like I said last week, if it's if you're blue, red, green, whatever color you are, I want you to get out and clean district nine.

And then when that comes to it, then we all get into this power struggle.

You're blue, you're red, you're green, you're white, and then we're in a power struggle, and then nobody does their part, and then we don't have a sense of community.

I I just you know struggle with this on if we can or can't.

Um I think everybody knows where we all sit that we don't like the man, but this is uh something I don't know, but I would like to hear more with Commissioner Callahan because I value your opinion on some things.

Um go ahead, Mr.

Callahan, and if you have one respond.

I I'm we're all in a very tough situation here.

And there's people that aren't gonna like us no matter what side we take.

That's why we're here.

We get that every time we come to this council meeting.

No matter what side we take, somebody's not happy with us.

We take an oath to do the right thing.

What is the right thing here?

All he's asking is we send a letter.

I mean, he he knows we can't impeach.

I don't believe he asked us to impeach.

His request was to send a letter to our uh federal representatives to ask them to take the step to do it.

He's to ask us to impeach, he knows that.

He's a very, very sharp gentleman.

I mean, I've never had come any anybody come to the council that prepped the work that he prepped.

Even But Silver Bowl employees have never come with a presentation like he's had.

So uh what I understand here is he's asking us to send a letter.

That's what he's asking us to vote on Commissioner Thatcher.

Uh thank you, Chairwoman Shea.

It's actually he drafted a resolution which takes much different form than a letter and has a much different impact than a letter of support.

And so that's why it's different.

Uh that's why I said it the first night is if he wanted to send a letter like we did to the job corps, that's different than drafting a resolution that is recorded on the books and has actually no literal effect other than making a statement, whether it be political or not.

So that's why it's different.

Um Commission.

Okay.

County Attorney Enruth has um something to say.

Sorry, Chairwoman Shay and Commissioner Tesher, we did draft a resolution for them.

The resolution was in support of the letter.

Yeah.

So then we need to look at the resolution, it's not just sending the letters.

Yeah, no, but that does that's what I want to say was is we see yeah, the the um job core.

Sorry, it's getting late.

My contacts are getting fuzzy.

Uh, we did draft a resolution and a resolution was voted upon to send a letter in support for the job court, just so everybody's clear.

Okay, county attorney Enruth, is a resolution required in order to send a letter, or can the body vote to send a letter without a resolution?

Um Commissioner Morgan.

Commissioner Shea, uh Chairwoman Shea, I do believe a letter could be sent through a normal communication.

Thank you.

I'm not sure who had go ahead, Mr.

Phillip.

Um Chair Shea, thank you, uh Commissioner Mankin.

Um I'm at your mercy on the form of which this takes when I came in.

I talked about a resolution, and uh a letter was offered as a solution to that.

Um at the time, and this was this was my mistake and my misunderstanding, but uh I had the opportunity to obtain a form, the job corps form of the the resolution uh which I provided with my packet of information, thinking that that was the letter.

Um that was an error and a misunderstanding on my part.

I've now provided the letter tonight that the resolution would affirm being sent based upon the justifications that I've put in that resolution that I drafted when I modified the job corps example.

So I don't know if the the form is right.

I'm at your your mercy on how to do this best.

Uh thank you.

Uh Commissioner Callahan.

Thank Chair Woman Shea.

I remember the night he came to us, and Ms.

Thatcher, you told him we should send a letter rather than a resolution.

So he said that night that whatever was the proper procedure, he'd be willing to do that.

So I believe that's what you just told us again tonight, right?

Yes.

Okay, thank you for the clarification and um Commissioner Thatcher.

Thank you.

Yes, again for the tenth time I did say that.

And the other point is is if if the resolution that we plan on attaching, if if which I still don't think any resolution should be attached, but what I'm going off of is the this document that he provided us with that.

Mr.

Phillip graciously provided us with.

County Attorney Enrith just said that nothing has been deemed unconstitutional.

We do not have that power, whether we believe it or not, it is not our power as the local government, as a personal citizen, as anybody to deem anything unconstitutional to the law does.

And they haven't done that yet.

So his la his this part of what he wants to send is is inaccurate then.

We we can't deem it unconstitutional and illegal if it hasn't been deemed by the people that can deem it that way.

Thank you, Commissioner Thatcher.

Mr.

Phillip, Chair Shea, I would just ask um, is who do we rely on to tell us that something is unconstitutional?

I mean, I realize that that's ideally the Supreme Court, right?

But that's not how the impeachment process works.

Um there is an argument that is made.

Uh articles of impeachment are put together, that's voted on, then it's taken to the Senate and it's further adjudicated there and whether or not there's a conviction.

Um I I think it's equally fair that the community of Butte says we believe this is unconstitutional based upon the the law, the Constitution itself, the War Powers Resolution Act, the treaties that we have ratified that are part of the Supreme Law of the Land, we can read from these multiple sources and make a determination for ourselves that we find and believe that this is an unconstitutional war.

Commissioner Healy So maybe if the wording got changed a little bit because it is our thing that we feel or we've come to the conclusion that it's worded more like that than just saying Trump for starting an unconstitutional war, just kind of restated in you know, as we see it, or you know, it like it's our opinion.

Not that it's a fact, it's unconstitutional.

Does that make sense?

What I'm trying to say.

Go ahead, Mr.

Phillip.

Uh Chair Shea, uh Commissioner Healy.

It it does.

Uh for clarification, would that be wording in the resolution?

Or in my letter.

Go ahead.

No, go ahead.

Um, if we just send the letter as far as because we just the resolution is not something that we can do.

I I she could clarify it more, but if we just send the letter, would that be okay with you?

Because you said I mean, because you're asking our opinion, so we're saying not send the resolution, which makes it more complicated, but send the letter.

Like they did for the job corps, with their trying to give an example.

Yeah, I think um thank you for that.

I I believe we did do a resolution with the job corps, but I do believe that County Attorney Andrew said that a resolution does not is not necessary to accompany a letter of opinion.

Um or yeah.

Um Sher Thatcher, did you Yeah, just really thank you, Commissioner Shea.

Again, Mr.

Phillip just said it requires impeachment through the United States House of Representatives, followed by the just Senate.

So I don't understand again.

I also I think it's important to remember that each of us as individuals and every citizen in this community has the authority to do this exact same thing to send to the delegation just as we would as a body.

I don't I I still believe it does not mean much more coming from a small local government than it would from a personal it's the same thing in my opinion.

And furthermore, we've had two proponents up here talk about this.

We've had two opponents plus, or we have had one opponent or a couple letters is what I'm saying.

So it isn't a good indication that this is what the community wants.

It's it's literally been split.

So I don't think it's accurate to say this is what the community wants when that's not what we've been told.

Thank you, Commissioner Thatcher.

Thank you, Commissioner Thatcher.

Go ahead.

Uh thank you, Chair Shea.

I I would like to address the the partisan um uh concern that is expressed.

And I respect that concern.

That's a valid opinion to take.

I tried to demonstrate in my original submittal um that this was not a partisan act that I was taking.

I haven't, for one, come before the commissioners on every little item that I disagree with the president about.

Um I believe it's been unconstitutional and illegal for us to go into Venezuela and seize the country's leader.

I believe that droning uh suspicious boats in the Caribbean is illegal for criminal acts.

You have a right to a defense.

Um I haven't come to you with those items.

I've come to you with something that I feel is almost existential to our nation to continue to be a republic for a president again to get us entangled in a foreign war where we now truly do risk either making a decision to win this war and to force a submission by the state of Iran, either by committing war crimes or by use of nuclear weapons.

Um further, I have tried to ground the document that I provided with 16 exhibits and references.

Um, not in far, you know, quotings of of CNN or whoever, but I provided the grounding uh uh documents for all of this discussion, the Constitution, the Hague Convention, the UN Charter, the U.S.

Law of War Manual, uh, to see where it is grounded, where I have referenced um opinions.

It comes from sources that I value highly that I listened to on a weekly basis that are of a conservative uh and libertarian nature.

People that voted for Trump, people that have been considered to be in the Trump administration at times.

I have made great effort to avoid a presentation that is uh partisan uh before the commission.

I truly believe that this rises to a level uh that is above, and it it it disturbs me when I see people on the news discussing about well the Democrats may want to do this, or the Democrats should hold off uh and wait until after the midterm elections and then get rid of Trump because keeping him in office is a great strategy.

Uh uh J.D.

Vance, if if Trump is impeached now, J.D.

Vance may be able to turn things around before the midterm election.

That to me are partisan considerations.

Um I reject that.

I'm stepping forward and and stating uh that I believe that we have crossed a very dangerous line here with what the president has chosen to do.

Um he has demonstrated no imminent threat for the basis of taking our country to war.

There is ample evidence that there was no imminent threat.

Um this is become catastrophic for the U.S.

in its setting in the world and our respect among other nations.

Um we have now gone far enough without oil leaving the Gulf, without fertilizers leaving the Gulf, without acid and sulfur leaving the Gulf, uh, that we are going to have a horrendous effect not only on the global economy.

I don't know how that'll affect our relationship with allies, but our economy here within this country.

There is grave harm with what has been done here.

And I think stepping forward and speaking up with a unified voice that our community is not just about waving a flag on the 4th of July during our awesome parade.

It's about having beliefs in those core foundational values and defending them when we see them under assault.

All right thank you Mr Phillip.

Commissioner Healy So when I read this I guess if you even just took out the sentence President Trump state started an unconstitutional an illegal war aggression when he attacked Iran if that was just taken out everything is pretty like cut cut and dry I mean what you're saying there's no we're not claiming that we we are making them unconstitutional we're not claiming this is how we feel you're just stating facts maybe even just taking that part out.

Thank you Commissioner Healy Commissioner Thatcher.

Thank you Chairwoman Shay You know I I may maybe it needs to go to the full body to discuss this obviously they're going to be the ones that are voting on it anyway.

Just to make it clear I provided the letter as a recommendation I still don't agree with it.

I don't believe this is in my role I personally disagree with everything that Donald Trump has done.

I wholeheartedly agree with you I am not in this position to serve my personal interests regardless of whether you believe that's partisan or not.

And so at this time I would like to make a motion to move communication number 2026-175 to full council there is a motion and a second to uh move communication number 2026-175 to the full council for discussion and consideration anything on the question all those in favor aye opposed motion passes um with that I would entertain a motion to adjourn