Alright, I call this meeting to order.

Welcome everyone today as we kind of start our public budget process.

I'm going to lay out a few uh kind of expectations for today and then hand it over to the mayor and Zach.

We are scheduled until 11 o'clock today.

If we need to go a little later, we can.

We do have the budget workshops next week on Monday and Tuesday, the 15th and the 16th.

And that's when we'll get into specifics on department.

Today is more of a higher level overview.

My goal is around 10-ish.

I'm not gonna do a hard cutoff, but 10-ish that will be ready for council questions to give us about a full hour to ask questions.

In order to do that, I'm going to ask that we let the mayor and Zach kind of give their presentation uninterrupted.

So take notes if there are questions you have, so that way they can kind of get through that.

Just kind of set off the season.

We have less than 50 days to pass a budget according to the deadline.

I know there's some multiply of deadlines, but uh generally about that October 20th City Council meeting would be the one that we would want to have a vote on our budget.

Uh so we have a lot of work to do in a short period of time, and some of the things that we'll be considering are very big changes for the city of Carmel.

So I do ask that the council, you know, we're not going to shut down debate.

We're going to let people talk as much as they want.

But if there are ways you can say something in the same point in five words instead of 50, please help me there.

Uh if there are technical questions that purely technical, please email them.

Uh and we love every department, but if we spend 10 minutes each of us telling every department how great they are, that'll take up the entire time.

Um with that, I will move on to.

I think the mayor has some opening comments, and uh then Zach will get into the presentation, which we also have a copy of here.

Good morning, council and Carmel residents and other parties joining us today.

It's I'm honored to present today alongside the city CFO Zach Jackson, the 2026 Carmel City budget.

Our team members have worked tirelessly to come to this final product, and I'm very proud of their work.

Budgets are not simply columns of numbers, they're the clearest expression of what a city values, what it chooses to protect, and what it aspires to become.

When we set a budget, we're declaring to our residents, our team member, and team members, and what and others what truly matters.

And this 2026 budget speaks with clarity.

It says we value safety.

That means protecting neighborhoods and schools, equipping every firefighter and police officer with equipment and training, providing safe streets for all, and ensuring buildings and structures are safe.

In all, it means ensuring no family doubts that Carmel will stand with them in their moment of greatest need.

We value fiscal responsibility.

In a time when revenues are flat and pressures are high.

We have chosen discipline, paying off debt early, lowering annual obligations, and using today's resources to build tomorrow's stability, all without raising a tax rate.

We also value transparency.

That means more accountability in how we spend, more visibility in how we decide, and more openness in how we manage the people's money.

We value quality of life.

Great cities are built on the daily experiences of its residents, their safety, their opportunities, their cultural life, and their parks and public spaces.

And we value building a community where dreams can root and grow.

This budget does not just protect what we have, it invests in what it is to come.

In short, a budget is more than just numbers, it's a statement of identity.

It shows who we are as a city and who we intend to be.

To dive in a little deeper, at the heart of this plan is public safety.

Carmel Fire Department overtime is growing because of vacancies and need.

This budget addresses that by filling open positions and planning ahead for retirements.

With more firefighters in place, we reduce overtime, cut costs, and strengthen the services that our residents depend on.

Think about the Carmel family who had a medical emergency and saw a fire crew at their door in under six minutes.

They don't see overtime dollars.

They see the reassurance of having enough trained firefighters to save a life.

Carmel Police Department is fully staffed and enhancing key positions like that of investigator to ensure we have adequate caseloads to continue with high case closure rates.

It also ensures our crisis intervention unit team has the resources it needs to continue to serve.

This budget also funds an increase to better recognize and treat mental health.

The issues that our police and fire officers face from the daily tragedies they choose to be part of serving our community.

Think about the officer who can no longer sleep on days off and struggles with images that cannot leave his or her head.

Officers' families don't care about the bottom line.

They care about their spouse, partner, parent, or child, and they want them healthy and happy.

A budget is more than just numbers, it's about preventing crime, saving lives, and protecting our first responders.

This budget makes historic investments in the backbone of our community, our roads, trails, and parks capital projects.

For 2026, we're budgeting the highest amount ever dedicated to road repair and rejuvenation in Carmel's history.

That means smoother streets, safer intersections, and stronger connections across neighborhoods.

Residents will see the results and pavement under their tires and the roundabouts that move traffic more safely and in the sidewalks and trails that connect homes to schools, businesses, and parks.

This budget also supports a continued growth of our trail network and invests in capital improvements in our parks.

These are the places where families gather, children play, and neighbors connect.

They are as critical to daily life as water lines and power grids.

Think about a parent walking their child to school on a safe sidewalk, or a cyclist riding the Monon, knowing the path is well maintained, or a senior enjoying a smooth drive to the dock without hitting a stretch of broken pavement.

These are not just conveniences, they are the foundation of daily life in Carmel.

Because a budget is not just numbers, it's the basis of Carmel being safe, connected, and thriving.

This budget would not be possible without the hard work of our award-winning city team.

They manage $25, $2025 with care, saved where they could, and we're proposing to put those dollars to work to pay off capital leases.

That directly lowers costs this year and in years ahead.

We're also making a critical investment in a new enterprise resource planning system.

It will streamline operations, sharpen decision making, and bring more transparency, not just to you, but to our community.

Think of a small business owner who wonders how the city is spending their tax dollars.

With a modern system, we can show them clear, accurate answers, building trust that their money is being spent wisely.

A budget is more than just numbers, it's infrastructure of trust between our city government and our community.

Carmel is a city of big ideas.

Some are in this budget, some are still in development, and some for now are on hold because funding is not yet available.

However, Carmel is built for big dreams.

We will not let state mandates dict out dictate how we dream, plan, or build.

Carmel has always charted its own course, and we will continue to do so.

Think about the owner of a small restaurant or a retiree who wants a city where they can go age in place with dignity.

They may not see every line item in the budget, but they feel the results of our choices.

Because a budget is more than just numbers, it's a reflection of big ideas that shape the carmal we will live in tomorrow.

This budget was achieved without raising our tax rate.

That's no small feat.

We are able to achieve this through efficiencies and innovation and service delivery.

We must acknowledge that the flat tax rate likely cannot be sustained beyond 2026, but our team will work hard to continue to innovate and find savings.

But for this year, taxpayers are protected and the quality of life in Carmel is preserved.

Think of the young family buying their first home in Carmel.

They're balancing student loans, child care, and groceries, knowing that their city can hold the line on taxes for one more year gives them breathing room and confidence in Carmel stewardship.

A budget is more than just numbers, it's a promise kept to our residents and our business owners.

This budget also reinforces what makes Carmel not just functional, but exceptional, our arts and our parks.

Festivals and programming our public spaces will continue through the work of experienced Carmel.

Our arts organizations will be funded to ensure music still flows in our theaters and children can experience the magic of music.

And parks and trails will keep expanding and reaching families' lives and making Carmel healthier and more connected.

Think of grandparents taking their grandchild to a PBNJ performance at the Payne M and CS Palladium, or a new resident attending a festival at Midtown and immediately feeling at home.

These aren't extras, they are the quality of life experiences that make Carmel special.

And that's why budget is more than just numbers, it's about the lived experience of being part of our community.

In summary, the work before us is serious, but it's also filled with hope.

This budget protects taxpayers.

It heavily invests in safety, transparency, infrastructure, arts, parks, and neighborhoods.

It strengthens quality of life while honoring fiscal responsibility.

And it supports the people who make it all possible.

Our team members who show up every day to serve Carmel with skill, pride, and heart.

So let us move forward together with clarity and purpose because at the end of the day, a budget is not just numbers.

It's a statement of identity.

It's a promise of safety and stability, and it's the daily work of our team members and the lived experience of families and businesses, and it is the future of Carmel.

I'm proud to present this 2026 budget.

I'm proud of the team that prepared it and the team that will put it into action.

And I'm proud of what it says about who we are and who we will become.

Because we are excellent and we want to keep it that way.

Carmel is not standing still.

Carmel is moving forward responsibly, confidently, and with purpose.

So let's now get started in reviewing the details.

First up, we're gonna look at the impact of SEA1.

We realize that there you may know this, but there may be people watching this that do not understand this bill or this piece of legislation.

We're gonna look at the general fund revenue forecast and go right into budget estimates.

We'll look at savings and other adjustments that help us get to this budget.

We'll have some brief closing remarks and of course open up to questions.

Keep going, Zach.

There we go.

So SCA one, Senate Enrolled Act 1 left us with several changes here in the state of Indiana.

First and foremost, it decreases property taxes paid by homeowners through the phase increase of the homestead deduction.

What I should mention is that 91% of our property tax revenue for our general fund comes from homesteads.

So that means this impacts us greater than many other cities in the state of Indiana.

And because our average home price is around $560,000, as the housing commission has looked at in the past, it also the homestead deduction also is a greater deduction than other cities who may have an average home price of $300,000.

As you can see, a household A, a family with a $568,000 home, an annual household income of a 176,000 dollars is going to see decreases to their property tax over the next several years.

That is as the as the law stands today.

The state legislature has made it clear that they will be continuing to make changes in 2026 and 2027.

But what we know today, that is what we have modeled.

Next, please.

Household B is also a senior with a $300,000 home and an annual household income of $40,000 of taxable income.

As you can see, they also see great decreases in their property tax bills through 2030.

Senate enrolled Act 1 also implements significant limits on opportunities to increase property tax rates.

And as a result of these both of these changes, what you're looking at here is the orange line going up is our forecasted revenue pre-SEA one, and that is property tax revenue revenue revenue only in millions.

Post SEA 1, you can see our forecast of revenue is greatly different from what was originally planned to be.

As we have outgrown the state average of growth, we've been able to appeal to be able to grow our level levy so we can continue to put roads and other infrastructure in.

Again, this is up for debate, I think, in future uh state legislatures, but as it stands right now, it would have an impact here locally.

And we've modeled it again.

This is the same slide you saw with the blue earlier, but now we've added the impact of if we were to uh put in place local income tax at its maximum ability of 1.2%, it would approximately offset the family household savings by increasing income taxes.

And for the senior, they still see huge savings from the property taxes, but because they have very little income to tax from a local income tax, there's modest changes on the upside.

And lastly, this is what a renter might see, an individual with a rental residence, an annual income of $80,000.

So this could be the 55 plus family, or it could be the 25-year-old or 30-year-old single resident in an apartment.

The apartment owners will see a decrease in property taxes.

Uh unlikely to be passed on to the renter, and then increase and change in local income taxes having a negative impact.

So now I'd like to turn over to Zach to talk about the details for the forecast and the estimates.

Good morning.

So first of all, let's talk about the priorities of this budget.

As the mayor previously mentioned, we've built this with no tax increase for 2026.

Our budget was structurally balanced for 2026.

It's spending does not exceed the available revenues for 2026.

We've been able to fund essential services and make investments that will improve our infrastructure.

We were able to fund a 3% COLA for our team members, but we are not applying that COLA to the mayor as well as the senior leadership.

And then lastly, and we're continuing to maintain our targeted reserves of at least 15% combined in the general fund and rainy day fund.

So let's look at revenue for 2026 in comparison to 2025.

Looking at those last two columns, you see that the forecasted revenue for the current year was 147.2 million.

The forecasted revenue for next year is down slightly to 144.3.

One thing that's going to get a little confusing as we go forward and talk about these numbers is state law has changed this year regarding the food and beverage tax deposits.

And so about 3.6 to 3.7 million that we were expecting in the general fund this year as part of that $147 won't be realized there.

Again, that's a dollar amount of about $3.7 million.

So what's impacting these numbers?

Overall property tax revenues aren't growing as much as we originally anticipated due to Senate Enrolled Act 1.

Another thing impacting our property tax numbers is that the we've redone our MVH calculation.

As you may know, our MVH fund gets dollars that are both gas taxes and BMV fees.

But we also put about 21 million annually of property tax dollars in our MVH fund.

The MVH MVH reallocation in engineering and street department allow us to dedicate more of the operating levy to the general fund while still fully funding the needs of those departments.

Lit will be for uh will be less than forecasted.

What comes in in 2025 will be slightly down from what we forecasted, and then overall we're anticipating that to be flat for 2026, and then as I mentioned previously, uh there's about 3.7 million coming out of the general fund that now needs to be deposited in the rainy day or pardon in the food and beverage tax fund.

This slide uh shows the uh the budget estimates by department, and so essentially kind of laid out uh the same format that we we have in the ordinance usually uh in terms of the personal services, supplies, other services and charges, and capital outlays for each department, those major budget categories.

The category of transfer is simply how uh the parks department receives their capital appropriation.

It's it's appropriated from the general fund, but but goes into a non-reverting fund in the park system.

Overall, again, you can see that the grand total of the general fund appropriations is 144.264 million, and again, that's in comparison to 144.265 million of revenues for the year.

The next slide shows how departments uh budgets compare in 2026 to uh their 2025 budget.

Uh with overall revenues not growing, but the need to uh to to make funding changes to uh to cover uh fire department, for example, as the mayor previously mentioned.

We we've had to reallocate funding between departments.

Uh everything above that uh that uh Dark Navy blue line is uh as an apartment that stayed flat or or received an increase in this budget, and every department below that you see uh how much they were reduced by.

Again, in order to give any uh department above that line an extra dollar, it had to be taken away from one of the other departments.

The next document is is the surplus statement as I've prepared it for for this budget for 2025 and 2026.

Um just uh step back for a moment.

I like to think of this line that goes through the middle that says annual surplus deficit.

I'll refer to that as just the line, an activity above the line versus below the line.

If it's an above the line activity, to me that's that means it's recurring.

It's recurring revenue, it's recurring expenses.

If it's below the line, it's it's a one-time cash injection into the general fund or a one-time use of dollars out of the general fund.

So for the current year, uh 2025, you see the 143.456 as the adjusted revenue target for this year.

That was 147.2, but again, state law changed mid-year as far as our food and beverage taxes, and so I've reduced the amount that was in our forecast for that amount.

So my new forecast for this year is now at 143 point five.

Going down that same column to talk about the revenue the expenses for this year, just as a reminder, uh we presented a budget last year that had a total of 146 and change.

Council and the administration made some uh adjustments to that, and the final number that passed was 143.9.

There have been a few increases to that mid-year.

Um that 900,000 figure there, the bulk of that 800,000 was adding the uh additional ambulance to the fire department, I think back in like March, somewhere in there.

Overall, I'm estimating that departments will underspend their budgets this year by 1.5 million.

I'd say that's probably a low-end estimate.

I I think the range on this is probably 1.5 to 2 million of underspending for this year.

And then ultimately, I think we'll end up spending a total of something like $143.45, somewhere in there, which leaves us with a structural surplus this year of just a little over $1,200.

Below the line for this year, you see the one-time cash coming out for paving that was done in in lieu of the wheel tax and surtax dollars.

With that $3.6 million leaving the general fund and really no uh extra money coming in to the general fund from the standpoint of uh the operating surplus this year being only $1,200.

I would see the general fund balance being about 10.75 million at the end of this year, and the rainy day fund balance being 14.6.

Obviously, those things are contingent upon how revenues continue to come in for the rest of the year, as well as where we land on total spending.

All in all, I'd say we end this year at 25 point uh.4 million in the combined reserves, uh, which leaves us at 17.7 percent in total reserves in comparison to our 15 million uh pardon me, 15 percent uh target.

Uh now looking at next year uh for 2026 the total revenues are 144.265.

The recommended appropriations are 144.264.

Uh and you see that uh essentially uh that's a 0.6 percent uh uh increase in in appropriations year over year or uh yeah, expenses year over year.

The annual surplus is $1,300, and at this point in time, there are no uh nothing that's in the budget uh that would be a one-time use of money as as we talk more about an ERP system of that could be a potential use of those one-time dollars.

Um the general fund and rainy day fund balances uh are forecasted to be basically the same at the end of next year as as they are this year.

Looking for a moment or yeah, looking for a moment at the MVH, you can see two departments are funded out of there engineering and street department.

Um you can see that their appropriations uh came down year over year.

Uh street department came down 3.7 percent, engineering came down by 14.6 percent, and again, a lot of these these changes uh are really more efficiencies on the side of paying off some capital leases early or setting aside doll at one-time dollars to fully encumber those capital leases so that we don't need to appropriate dollars within a department for those on an ongoing basis.

In terms of paving for 2026, the the budget includes uh $8.5 million across four different funding sources.

Uh there's $4.5 million appropriated in MBH, a half million appropriate in the local road and street fund, and then combined in the wheel tax and surtax funds, uh, $3.5 million for a total of $8.5 million for paving.

appropriate dollars within a department for those on an ongoing basis in terms of paving for 2026 the the budget includes uh 8.5 million across four different funding sources uh there's four point five million uh appropriated in mbh a half million appropriate in the local road and street fund and then combined in the wheel tax and surtax funds uh 3.5 million for a total of 8.5 million for paving there is some bonding capacity uh at the end of this year uh that capacity is about four million dollars if if the goal was to maintain our our current property tax rates uh we're aware of uh at least two top priorities and that would be uh station 47 design as well as uh design and replacement of the energy center chiller looking at other funds and apologize if this is a bit of an eye chart uh these are all the other appropriations that are listed in the in the budget ordinance uh just organized kind of by department or or other theme here um we see uh several different fire department funds police department parks uh six different bond fund appropriations several rodent infrastructure uh funds some funds that touch the courts as and the law department and other funds I've I've grouped this food and beverage tax as well as the opioid settlement funds and then we have several non-referring funds that are essentially places that we've taken general fund dollars and and place them there to be used for ongoing purposes in total uh the general fund mvh and these appropriations uh combined to this 245 million number that you see here so now let's talk about how we were able to make this budget work in order to reduce the the uh the the budget gap uh we targeted reducing uh the 2026 debt payments uh we had extra cash in terms of uh departments having some savings within their budget this year um and we've we've used those as I mentioned earlier to to uh help pay off some capital leases we have fewer personnel at this point in time uh given that we've held some uh civilian positions vacant uh we have focused on service delivery innovation and we're continuing to look at increased revenues from fees for services the budget record uh reflects several changes or or sacrifices at multiple departments the list here shows where we have uh reduced positions and made some other changes across departments you can see the mayor's office is requesting one fewer position next year uh so is the street department uh the fire department is on track to outsource our EMA EMS building which would reduce three positions from their budget police department is not filling uh one currently vacant uh administrative position uh our budget is not backfill the uh economic development executive director position we've created a a public safety quartermaster uh position and and division if you will to more effectively serve both departments as well uh both on the purchasing side the maintenance side and the the custodial side and that results in the reduction of one position and one cleaning contract at engineering we're not filling the chief infrastructure officer position docs is not filling two currently vacant positions and then with streets IT and utilities where we're centralizing utility location services within utilities which the biggest savings there comes in the form of reduced contractual spend at the street department one of the changes as well is is with regards to the marketing and community relations department also also known as MAC MAC was appropriated 4.2 million for the current budget the proposed changes achieve 1.7 million dollars of savings and that is to implement experienced carmel uh a nonprofit that's co-led by community board members appointed by the mayor and city council the proposal would have the mayor and city council with an equal number of appointees we provide a grant to a this experienced Carmel nonprofit for marketing festivals and events that grant is appropriated in the arts support and operations budget line of the of the budget for 1.8 million there are three existing MAC positions that based upon the roles we are suggesting that they move to other departments and then what remains kind of in house using the the existing MAC department if you will would be a four person comms team with a budget of 8000 and with that I'll I'll turn it over to the mayor thank you Zach

There are three existing MAC positions that based upon the roles, we are suggesting that they move to other departments.

And then what remains kind of in-house using the existing MAC department, if you will, would be a four-person comms team with a budget of 800,000.

And with that, I'll I'll turn it over to the mayor.

Thank you, Zach.

So I grew up in Northern Michigan, and I never imagined that one day I'm be leading a city like Carmel, entrusted in with this amazing responsibility.

But I do remember what it felt like to ride my bike down a safe street, to live in a city where people cared for each other, and a village, which was which is as small as it was, was a village, uh, where neighbors looked out for one another, where schools were high performing, and pride and community ran deep.

And that sense of security and belonging is what I want every family to feel here in Carmel every single day, every single year.

As a community, Carmel's always stood for excellence and a high quality of life.

We've built incredible public spaces, world-class neighborhoods, thriving parks, and a cultural life that enriches us all.

This didn't happen by accident.

This was was the result of decades of careful stewardship and the belief that a great city requires collective investment.

State imposed property tax changes aimed at relief are forcing us to make our choices.

And this is not just a budget issue.

This is a test of whether we will allow outside mandates to diminish the values that make caramel the city we're proud to call home.

And now the choice is ours.

We can grumble about the changes and wade through the past, or we can come together as a mayor, a council, and a community to build a new model of fiscal resilience, partnering, prioritizing and creating smarter ways to sustain our future.

This is our moment to turn a challenge into opportunity to prove once again that a budget is more than just numbers, it's a promise of safety, prosperity, and belonging for generations to come.

Thanks for your time today.

We welcome any questions that you have.

Thank you.

Um before we kind of give in the questions, does any counselors kind of want to make any opening comments about the budget as a whole?

Any counselors.

All right.

Um I'll have one later, I guess I'll do.

But uh questions, we'll start with some questions.

Councilor Minor.

Good morning, Zach.

Ready for my joke.

Um, really quick question, or actually a question, more of a um maybe some information about the food and beverage tax.

I think it would be important for the community to understand how SEA1 requires you to put so much money into this account and what the that money is appropriate, how it will be able to be used going forward.

Sure.

Thank thanks for that question.

Um essentially uh historically, the food and beverage tax, which I believe was adopted in the city of Carmel, I I want to say in 2011, uh, language all along has said that those dollars ought to be deposited into a food and bat food and beverage tax fund.

Unlike a lot of other communities that have imposed a local food and beverage tax, um a lot of them kind of tied their hands with the uses to a very specific purpose.

Um that and allowed the uses to be essentially for any legal government purpose.

As a result, as those dollars have been coming in, they were never placed in the food and beverage tax fund, but instead were directly deposited in the general fund and then appropriated as part of the normal budget process.

Effective on July 1st this year, uh, there was a change made, basically saying that we were no longer permitted to transfer dollars from the food and beverage tax fund to any other fund.

That created a problem for us because we were never putting our food and beverage tax dollars in the general fund in the first place.

So we ultimately made two decisions to get into compliance with that.

One was to go ahead and moving forward start depositing those dollars starting on July 1st into the food and beverage tax fund.

Uh in a half year is worth somewhere in the ballpark of about 1.8 million.

The more I thought about it, and then and again uh the the state's fiscal year is a July 1st fiscal year, uh ours is a January 1st.

I'm not sure how to when I look at the law change saying that we cannot transfer it.

I I don't think I can apply that to only a half of the year, even though it went into effect mid-year.

I I think I need to treat it as if it was in effect for the entire year.

Uh 8 million, almost 3.8 million, nope, the 1.7 million to 1.8 million that we received in this first six months of the year, we've now deposited that in the food and beverage tax fund in order to come into compliance with the law for the full year.

Um, and so those revenues aren't in the general fund.

This budget uh proposes carrying that 3.6 million total, the the food and beverage tax dollars that we thought were going into the food and into the general fund that are now in the food and beverage tax fund.

We're proposing carrying that balance forward to next year, and then next year appropriating that one-time money as well as the ongoing money.

The one-time money is used, frankly, to make this budget work.

Uh as I uh this slide here uh that I didn't mention before talks about how we're paying off or fully encumbering uh balances uh for most of our capital leases uh that are paid from the general fund and MVH fund.

As the last point here uh mentions I'm requesting to appropriate that fund balance, the 3.6 million that we're carrying over to next year, so that I can encumber the amounts of a ton of capital leases.

We've now set those dollars aside.

We no longer have to make annual appropriations for those, and we've effectively lowered our ongoing operating costs.

In a few instances, it made sense to uh go ahead and actually pay off those capital leases because of the interest rate, but on others, and I would say the the mark is probably somewhere around four percent.

If if the interest rate on our capital lease is less than four percent, we're actually better off by holding our money.

Uh we're getting more interest at the bank right now than the interest rate on those capital leases.

So that's why on some of these we just set the dollars aside uh to fully encumber all the ongoing payments.

So again, that resolves the one-time 3.6 million that we thought was going to be in the general fund, but is now in the food and beverage tax fund, and then uh using the food and beverage tax fund on an ongoing basis, uh, there are several recurring costs that we've uh our budget proposes moving off to that out of the general fund uh to that revenue source, and those two are are basically the approximately 2.5 million that we spend every year on our property casualty vehicle insurance that's citywide, as well as the uh uh operating costs of our energy center, those two things we've moved over to to the ongoing source.

Um this will be a fund maintained by uh the finance department, and so rather than kind of appropriating that to another department, having them to worry about how you know does this expense go to my general fund appropriation or my food and beverage tax appropriation, we kept it in finance and just move some citywide expenses to there.

And I'm happy uh I I have a slide that kind of regurgitates what I just said, and I'll send that as well.

I I some so first um we received this budget September 1st for the council, and I don't I can't speak for others, but it's been uh kind of difficult for me to digest this because uh the format is completely different than past years, and um looking through the Excel spreadsheets and to try to some of this is I don't know if anyone else is feeling the same way, it is not the compared to past years, it's not the easiest thing to kind of go through with some of the formats that we've had.

It's more detailed but harder to digest.

Uh I didn't know if we can get you know summarize PDFs like we've had in the past because this, you know, a little more difficult to if you'll give me an example of what you got in the past that that's your preferred um this year's budget.

Yeah, I think great job breaking this down into like all this the whole file tree.

Incredible, appreciate it.

Thank you.

But the one missing piece was just the simplified spreadsheet that like the last three years for comparisons, because I think then that helps us look at okay, what has actually moved from one area to another, and those are the hard ones to just track through so many different files this year's and then the proposal.

The biggest thing that we you know, I think in the past, when you're going through the budget, the first thing you look at is changes.

When things don't change, you it's easier to look through it.

But then you see, okay, this is went up a huge amount, this went down a huge amount, and there was a comment there, and that was very easy to digest.

That was very easy to digest.

That's not necessarily what we kind of got this time.

Um I do have a question though on the um you talk about positions that were being uh eliminated.

So for that, how many of those are positions that are currently filled?

How many of those the people may be the that employee may go work somewhere else, and how many of those the person will be let go and and but I'm asking is how many people will be laid off by the city?

I believe this slide reflects um I I can count five, and they're all captured in that those first three bullets.

So we five people will be let go.

That's correct.

Okay.

I should note that there's a vacancy on the EMS billing, one of those.

So it's really two, yes, it's four.

So it's four people.

Okay.

Questions we're out.

Uh just so Mr.

President, so is the plan that we are going to in the workshops next week go through each department and really drill down and ask, okay, what about this dollar?

What about that dollar?

Or am I supposed to work on that now?

So I think we'll go to our department to department, we're gonna ask the department head next at the workshops, but I feel today is the time to kind of ask the mayor and Zach kind of the overall vision, which can include departments.

Although I'll keep in mind, considering we'll have so much to cover in the workshops next week.

If you have questions to ask today, let's get them out because for sake of time and um that's less time that we can have to spend on that next week.

So Mr.

President, yes.

We did prepare today, right?

Just to give provide an overview and get into some of the the tenants we talked about today.

If there's specific questions you want us to get after before next week, so the department heads are prepared.

Great.

I mean, we're open to all questions, but we kind of thought today was a focus of the overview, and then you can dig in in the departments absolutely.

Yeah, and even if you just want to ask the question, even if we don't get the answer, that that obviously helps us with this process.

All right.

Um so general question on slide 24.

Um, if we can go back to that one.

So I'm just trying to I just want um to understand in my mind this year versus next year.

So when I look at estimated 2025, we last year had a total revenue.

When I add up those numbers of 147, 243, but there's the negative food and beverage, but we still got that money, and so I'm trying to reconcile that concept, not not the dollar, but the concept.

And I'm sorry, you you said I thought you said slide 24.

24, yeah, 24.

It's this one.

Surplus statement.

We got two slides.

Sorry, I surplus statement.

Yeah, so I just want to make sure your your your question is more on the well, I'll be the first to admit, you know, it may be too a simpleton question, but I'm just trying to reconcile how much revenue did we get in last year, and I'm trying to figure out why um, or excuse me, this year.

Excuse me, this year.

You're we still got the food and beverage, we just can't count it in the general fund, but but to compare apples to oranges, when I look at okay, what revenue am I dealing with this year versus next year?

It really was 147.

Is that a fair way to think about it?

Yeah, the the forecast for this year is is 147.2 for the general fund.

That included uh uh 3.8 million of food and beverage tax revenues.

Right.

Now, as we go throughout the year, you know, we realize hey, was that a good target or not?

And frankly, that was one that was probably on a little on the high side.

Okay.

Um I I think the actual revenue on that one is gonna be more like 3.6 instead of 3.8 by the time we get to the year end.

Um right, those dollars did come in.

They were initially being deposited in the general fund as they came in, and and essentially since January since uh uh July 1st one, we we uh we started depositing them in compliance with the law, and then also we went back to the beginning of this year, and the dollars that should not have been placed in the general fund.

Yep, no, I get all that.

But so we're looking at 147 in essence versus 144.

Correct.

But again, uh once you take out the the 3.8 this year, uh our actual revenues for this year will probably be more the actual general fund revenues will be more akin to 143.5.

And I got it, and I'm so I don't want to belabor this, but but those dollars are still being spent for um for expenses that were that are being paid this year or next year also, so it's a kind of a wash.

Yeah, it is, and I would say functionally what this means is that um let's say we end up spending every dollar that was appropriated this year, and there are no leftover reversions that come back to the general fund.

If that happens, then we would functionally eat into the general fund balance because this 3.7 million, 3.8 didn't materialize in the general fund.

Okay, and then um looking further down, so the above the line and the book below the line, um, you're saying that this year if we um spend every dollar as appropriated above the line, we will end up with a $1,200.

Actually, I I'm assuming that we're going to underspend by $1.5 million of our of our appropriations right now.

Oh, you're gonna underspend.

Okay, all right.

Okay, that and that's in comparison to where we um you can see that on the that reversions line uh uh 2023 we underspent by 6.2 uh last year we underspent by 7.2.

Yep.

I I think that number is again somewhere in the range of 1.5 to 2 million that will underspend this year, and and this is kind of the the effect of one um with kind of our our zero based slash program uh based budgeting uh approach.

We're we're getting appropriations and departments funded uh more closely to their to their actual need as as opposed to um uh uh unintentional padding that's been in there in the past.

And when I say that, um you know sometimes it's been uh we will uh we will fully fund a position, but knowing that it might not get filled until mid-year create some savings, things like that.

Um I think we underspend by 1.5 this year, and that's how we end up with a uh small structural surplus for the year.

Yeah, and I misspoke, but yeah, 1.5.

So where I was going, so every dollar we don't spend this year still helps that um those dollars then would flow into next year.

Yeah, back to the general fund bottom line.

Yep.

Okay, all right, and we're trying to do that now, I would assume.

And and again, you know, as I look at as we built this budget, um our our general fund balances are healthy.

It's it's more of a our ongoing revenue for 26 and 27 appear to be very tight, and so how do we use that one-time uh uh our healthy one-time balances to help us get through the next two years, and that's largely been through uh uh prepaying uh or setting dollars aside to fully pay off uh several capital leases.

Yep.

That's how ultimately we we got our operating costs down by two to three million.

Yeah, okay.

And um, and what is the administration's policy on using the rainy day fund?

We're using it for our 15% reserves, right, to keep that number healthy, and so it's raining a little bit, but we feel like we can make this budget work with the realities of today and and not worry about the hypotheticals of tomorrow, keep this budget strong moving forward without increasing debt without dipping into our mini-day fund.

Okay, all right.

Um, and then I maybe just wanted to get a little bit of clarification, but I don't remember which slide it was.

Um the uh let's see if I can find it here on our well let me let me change directions.

On let's can we do you have a slide on the uh Mac?

Let's go back to the Mac screen, and I just want to understand as we as we look at this experience carmal proposal, the 1.8 million um let me back up.

How do you how do you um propose that those employees are paid?

So we're looking at the nine million, no change in arts funding.

The employees that there's employees moving over, and I'm still trying to get my head around this, so apologize if I'm not clear in my question.

But those employees move over, that has to be funded with money out of experience caramel instead of the tax dollars.

So it's not really going to the arts.

How does and that but that's coming out of the arts fund, I'm assuming the 1.8.

So it's a variety of funds that are that are creating this opportunity.

There's sponsorship dollars and a gift fund that we that go toward events and nonprofits.

The grant is coming from our general fund, so it's moving over to pay for those employees.

That'll be in a part of a nonprofit.

So we can we can get into those details at the MAC meeting you have scheduled with numerous times.

That's where I'm prepared to really dig in deeply.

Okay.

We can address it again next week during the department if you want to.

Yeah.

Okay.

But just for my brain, is there anything coming out of the arts fund that is ex that is funding experience?

Are you talking about the support for the arts fund that we really go to non-millionation?

Well, well, the the nine million that we just showed.

That's why I was trying to find that that slide.

Yeah, I if I can answer that, Counselor.

Um the I went too far there.

I'm sorry, I can't remember which slide that was.

It essentially while the grand total appropriation for that department is the same.

There's some and when you say department, you're talking about the arts support and operations department.

Okay, thank you.

23.

Let's go to slide 23.

Uh let's, yeah, so that's the one that's that's basically flat.

Um, you have a few things going on here that make it appear flat, but uh but the underlying details are are very different, and it's more just a coincidence that these numbers are about the same.

Um the the two or or three major changes, one is in 2025 we are funding uh the costs of the energy center uh uh out of this line.

Um I'm proposing moving that in the 26 budget over to the food and beverage tax.

Okay, I'd need to double check that exact number, but I think we're talking somewhere in the ballpark of uh I'm I'm sure it's less than a million, but I would need to double check.

Another change is that uh in addition to you know the support that we we we've talked about lately for the Center for Performing Arts, whether that be the uh the management fee we get them we give them, the reimbursement of of kind of certain utility uh but basically the the cost of keeping that building in good shape uh and and all the maintenance uh in addition to those things now that that building is is reaching uh basically 15 years, there are some assets within that building that are starting to fail.

Uh last year we cash funded basically a 1 million dollar lighting project for the uh for the theaters next year uh we have a few capital projects, but instead of cash funding, we're proposing doing a capital lease, equipment lease on those, which which significantly gets the the cost of next year down.

You have those two things kind of driving the numbers down, and then the addition of the 1.8 million dollar grant that was mentioned here, and it just it's it's by coincidence that it it adds up the same.

It wasn't trying to use the same pot of money to uh it wasn't really trying to reallocate within the same pot of money, it was just w where's the most rational places to pay for these expenses, and and uh um and once we did that we ended up basically about the same point we started as a total for this line.

Okay, all right.

That thank you for that clarification.

So when we get into the details to the mayor's point, can may I see the breakdown of that arts support and operations as it compares to 24 and 25?

Yeah, I think then I can get my head around it.

Yeah, and actually uh we've been thinking about that.

Um when Jeff McDermott gave a presentation um at the last council meeting, he had a pie chart that kind of talked about this nine million.

And I wouldn't say that there was anything wrong with the his numbers, I can just add another layout layer of detail to what he presented to to really kind of clarify some points there.

We'll do that same for 24, 25, and 26 to really illustrate how those dollars are have been allocated and how we're proposing to allocate those.

Okay, very good.

That's it for now.

Counselor Locke.

And just to double in on the layman process here, just as we're getting kind of our feet around us before we get into the actual like detail for each division, the food and beverage tax amount was part of the general fund before the law change or interpretation change that put us in a position where we're now changing the way that we're allocating it.

So the amount that we see in the budget and in our penimation for the food and beverage tax, which is like seven million dollars, eight million used to be in the general fund, but now is just in that fund.

We combined this year's appropriation, which could have gone to the general fund, but we didn't add it.

So we withdrew revenue that we generated in 2025 to move it to revenue being generated in 2026, but under a separate fund.

So we have seven more, seven million more dollars to play with that would have been in the general fund in these previous two years.

Is that functionally correct?

I I would say that again that that uh seven million is over two years, a two-year period, it's not an annual number.

Yeah, otherwise I can't.

So if in theory it was three million last this year, 2025, but it was would have been general fund, but with the change, we took it out, moved it into that, we're using 7 million, we're applying it to the capital leases, the other payments.

So when I look at this and sorting by general fund plus food and beverage, we're at 151.8 million this year to cover those exigencies of that revenue to draw down the lease payments that are happening.

Yeah.

So yeah, we just we treated the the money that ends up not being appropriated this year, the food and beverage tax, to uh we've strategically used that to lower the ongoing operating costs.

Okay for several departments.

Are we doing that with other sources of revenue anywhere else for this year?

And then I in and just thinking kind of holistically, we talk about the general fund a lot, and this is kind of for the global discussion too, because that's where we pay for the operations of the city.

Um, but would love to just see an overview if there were other funds or other sources like that where we're doing creative things to get through.

Because I do think the concept that it is raining or soon to be raining, we see a forecast of potential rain in the future.

Um, ensuring that we're keeping that base and the rainy day fund up so that as it rains is the point.

Um, and that that gets to kind of just the broader as we build this budget.

The last two years obviously are are very nuanced, very close.

Zero base budgeting is working from the perspective that we're now budgeting closer to actual.

Um, but it's also putting us in a position where instead of there being a million dollars or seven million dollars afloat, there's now a thousand.

So I just want us to be very strategic about how we're talking about that and just verifying for us as we're approving this budget with full understanding uh that there are other budgets like the food and beverage tax amount uh that are helping us get to that end point where we are a thousand dollars away from revenue on just the general fund, but there's another hundred million dollars being appropriated elsewhere uh to take care of these things.

So to answer that question as far as are there other funds where we're doing this uh yes, but not to this kind of degree or or uh anyway, there are a few departments this year uh funded out of both the general fund and MVH, where they've had uh operational savings this year uh where we have as you know, there's some transfers we do we can do administratively, and there's several that we have to bring to council in order to move dollars.

Um so we have uh we are in the process of of moving some dollars that will otherwise revert back to the general fund or the MVH, depending upon the department, where we're moving those to put them in place to go ahead and pay off or to fully encumber the capital leases with this year's money so that those are no longer ongoing operational costs.

But but no other funds have we used to do that.

And again, there's in my mind, you know, there's uh the approach on the food and beverage tax is a different concept than how we're approaching those general fund and MVH ones.

Food and beverage will ultimately help MVH and and uh general fund, but it's just a different approach there.

And then just one follow-up there, kind of tied to the question as we get deeper into Mac and that discussion of what a new nonprofit could look like.

Would love a a real close honed-in understanding of how the grant fund gift fund conversation works because you just referenced that that may be a source of revenue to help get that operation off the ground.

Um, but it's also been a point of just kind of understanding gap for me specifically on how we've operationalized that as a function of the city um within the city for all time versus how we are going to kind of use it potentially to stand up something else that is outside of the city.

So we'd love just a deeper dive in that if you'd be prepared as we get into the budget process next week to talk about those fund sources specifically.

Thank you.

So on the experience car, I'm a little confused because we said we'll let's wait till Mac to discuss that.

Uh is Kelly setting up this nonprofit will should be in charge of this nonprofit.

Because I don't this isn't in the Mac budget experience Carmel that's you know what I mean.

So I don't know why we would wait till the Mac why we would discuss it during the Mac department part.

I think you would be the person that we would talk to about experienced Carmel, not Kelly Douglas.

I will be in those meetings.

Um but we were digging into each department at those department meetings, so that's the But it's not a city department, it's a separate nonprofit.

Correct.

So there's I mean it so we wait till that department, it's not a city department.

We're talking about the Mac department in the Mac meeting.

Uh but this isn't in the Mac department experience Carmel.

I guess if you want to talk semantics, it doesn't matter to me, but the thought was those are where we dig in.

So those big changes for the existing Mac department as we're proposing it for next year.

And so the suggestion was that we dig in deeply on that at those times.

I I'd like to get into some of it today because uh when I was talking to Zach, I mean there was a comment I heard that the budget doesn't work without this experience caramel change.

The budget doesn't work with a lot of changes.

Well I understand.

I didn't know there was things off limits for us to do that.

No, we can talk about it, but I again I thought that's what we're getting into each department talk specific to the case.

But it's not a department.

If I can department this year, uh Mr.

President, it is a department this year.

And if I can just throw out real quick on our budget workshops, we we we've scheduled um Mac um separate thing for experienced Carmel since it's not a department.

Since can that be its own thing on the schedule?

Yeah, I I what I'll do is uh that art since I had Mac and art support and operations back to back, in my mind that's how the conversation was going to flow, but I can designate part of that art support and operations specifically towards the experienced Carmel okay conversation.

And I also sent everybody a detailed document last night for your review and didn't expect you to have to to look at it before today, but it is in the boxes.

I read it, I mean I I read it.

So I didn't expect you to do that late because I got it sent to you yesterday.

But that lays out very specific.

So if you if you could look at it before that, that would be helpful.

Well, if for those of us who looked at it, can we ask questions about that document?

You sure can.

Okay.

Um Counselor Josh, you had a question?

Uh yeah, I did I did sort of a separate question.

Um in the food and beverage tax and the way that it's applied, are there restrictions and how it's in being interpreted and what we can apply it to?

Because you mentioned that you're using it for capital leases, but I'm trying to understand, you know, obviously for the general public, a food and beverage tax doesn't sound like it's going to fund capital leases.

So I'm just trying to uh have an understanding for myself and the general public as to what restrictions on a lot of these other funds are and how we can apply them looking at a budget overall.

Yeah, certainly.

Thanks for the question.

Um when I look through the list of of how our uh food and beverage tax was was originally set up and it has to be devoted towards a certain purpose and compared that to other cities that have established this, um they were much more narrow focused uh often.

Um it's it's a it's for downtown beautification, something that that's very narrow.

Ours was passed uh and again uh said something to the effect of for for any legal government purpose, much more broad, which was also why I think the my department historically just went ahead and put those dollars in the general fund.

Um but when I send out kind of my my slide that summarizes the food and beverage tax, I'll also link to that the uh the the ordinance that uh council passed years ago and and what they uh intended to devote it to for again, kind of where I'm saying any any legal uh government purpose.

I'll I'll I'll provide you with the actual license.

So we can determine where we want to put these dollars and there's no state restriction on how we use those dollars.

The state's requirement is only that we follow our our own property.

Okay, I just wanted to clarify that.

Thank you.

It's also safe to say that the dollars in the food and beverage uh fund from this year are also an underspend, right?

Because had we used those dollars, it wouldn't be available to you for that purpose.

So just want to make that note.

Counselor Schneider.

Thank you.

So to I'm going back several questions and then catching up, but to Jeff's point is we continue to wrap our hands around that issue about what is spent and what isn't spent, it would probably be good.

So I'm going back several questions and then catching up, but to Jeff's point as we continue to wrap our hands around that issue about what is spent and what isn't spent, it would probably would be good not just to compare general fund, general fund, but overall budget, overall budget to help see the differences without some of the complications.

Um not so much complications, but things that are no longer the same.

Um the and I think it it's also would be good to kind of have people understand how the food and beverage tax works because and and how much we're collecting, because it it correct me if I say anything wrong.

It's a two percent tax, one percent by the county, and one percent by us, and I don't know what was going on in 11.

I think that predates all of us in the room, I think.

Um but I would expect well, given leadership at the time, maybe it was just a general increase in revenue.

But when you say other communities do it for a defined purpose, fundamentally to me, it seems like if we're going to impose this tax, it probably should have a purpose, otherwise it is just a tax, and we're I think it's disingenuous, not by the administration or the council or the city of Carmel, but just by what's been set up to call it food and beverage if it's just another tax, like open-ended tax, because that that's no different than income tax or property tax, but it's called food and beverage.

And if it on the surface, I don't know why the state created it, but probably to support small businesses, restaurants was probably the original intent that got buried by state bureaucracy, but I I don't know.

I can find just a little bit of detail, and then if you can ask me one layer of quite deeper, we're gonna have to do some research.

But uh, this was uh proposed at the time that to find Lucas Isle Stadium.

That's right.

And so the one percent of the two percent half of it goes to find Lucas L Stadium bonds, and then to incentivize cities and towns and others to participate, the offer was that you could also levy a one percent for general operating revenue or whatever you wanted.

Thank you.

I for completely forgotten about that.

Um from that in all of the spreadsheets, and maybe it's in there, and I just haven't found it, but revenues.

I don't see there's the kind of bulk revenue, but individual departments that get the I know IT got a fifteen thousand dollar payment from the court, but like I don't I can't find that in there.

I just so we can get a sense of what departments are collecting monies from either other departments or other entities.

Yep.

Um then really be helpful would be an org chart, just a citywide org chart, just so to visually understand the flow.

Okay, I think those are my questions.

I was trying to follow up on that.

I'll call it.

Yeah, counselor Green.

Thanks, uh Mr.

President.

Um just a couple quick questions.

Following up on the conversation um that uh the discussion about the reversion, uh the 1.5 million reversion.

Um does that include the the funds that uh this council didn't appropriate?

Uh how much wasn't it like three million that we didn't appropriate?

So is that 1.5 million like assuming we spend the three million that we didn't appropriate or yeah, that's assuming um so so that it's been appropriated and encumbered, I believe, by the street department.

Yeah, and so I this 1.5 million that I believe will revert this year is does not include any part of that mini assumptions on that 3.6 million coming back.

Okay, so yeah, so potentially that's 3.6 million we still have that on that we never uncumbered.

So okay.

Um the other question is uh you had the on your side about fewer uh persons.

Um and uh you know, just you know, um following up on counselor Austin's um question.

So you know, in a perfect world for those who who uh are kind of listening, you know, rarely are you ever 100% manned?

You know, there's always turnovers, so no matter what, there's always you know if you budget to be 100% manned for so many positions, and you're never completely get there, there's always going to be a personnel savings identity or so.

Are you using some type of vacancy rate to um kind of reduce some of the expenditures you know from the previous year?

Yeah, and and so just to be clear, so for for this year, there have been some vacancies that have um came into this year positions that came into this year vacant, and there are some vacancies that have occurred within this year.

And we've been strategic about which of those uh are are critical at this moment that need to be filled, and others do do we kind of wait and just make sure that we can afford them on an ongoing basis, and so it's not filling them for one year, and then oops, sorry, the the revenue there isn't is no longer there to to uh support that.

So we have held some positions vacant this year.

That will help us.

I mean, that that is in part what's helping us to pay off some of these capital leases, reduce our ongoing operating costs, and then is as it's laid out here, these are positions that are technically funded in this year's budget.

Uh some of them are are filled, yeah.

Uh as I mentioned, that we are not requesting funding for the for these positions in in next year's budget.

That clarify Councillor Choshi and then Councilor War.

Sorry, I just have a question.

Then on piggybacking on to that, if you've determined that you're not going to put those budget those positions into the budget for next year, then are we confident that those departments that had vacancies that occurred during the year can function without those positions?

Because I'm you know, that I would be concerned about.

Again, we talked about safety and trying to maintain the level of um quality that uh citizenry in Carmel expects from their departments, and I just want to make sure that they have the manpower they need to do what they're gonna do since vacancies sometimes occur unintended.

Um I I think I'd say where we are eliminating positions uh these are largely areas where there's a uh it's a function we believe that we don't need another person to do that work and that existing staff can help out there.

Uh there's also the assumption um you know, like on the EMS billing, um financially there's an opportunity to uh uh reduce our expenses and again both increase our revenue on that one.

Um again, several of these are are uh have already been vacant this year.

Um I don't know maybe if you have anything you want to have to I mean counselor Josh, some of these decisions are very hard to make.

And I think there's other positions we would actually like to add uh to better serve our residents.

Uh but we believe that this is the best course for given all the competing objectives that we have, serve our residents at a high level, reduce our expenses, not raise the tax rate.

So we try to do take a scalpel to this and do the best that we can.

But there's some decisions here that are really hard.

Counselor Minar and then Councillor Warrell and Counselor Schneider.

Thank you for acquiescing Counselor Morrell.

I appreciate that.

Um to uh Matt's point, thank you so much for responding to my email last night because I did specifically ask for an art or chart for 26, which will be really helpful.

I think going forward, trying to understand um some of the changes that are are are happening citywide and being able to understand where we are, um changing different department names, changing different positions and titles.

I think it will make it um to your point, Dr.

Joshi, to understand all these changes and how they occur.

So having that org chart and thank you so much for uh sorry it was the 11th hour.

I assume there was a document out there somewhere.

I I sent you what I had that high level, but I think you're wanting to do that.

Well it's 25, yeah, for 25 years.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

Council Brown.

All right, uh, Mr.

President, thank you for the second bite at the apple.

Um I I now remembered what I was trying to do.

I was trying to go back to slide 30, if we could, and I would like to just um understand a couple of things.

So on slide 30, now um you are talking about capital leases.

Oh, page 30, slide 30.

So I think we had the extra slide in there and I took it out and I messed it up.

That's what okay, I gotcha.

That's why I I printed right at the line.

Yeah, okay, gotcha.

All right.

Um is this the one you're absolutely, thank you.

I I decided that I did need a little bit more definition on what we mean here.

Excuse me.

Um so when we say debt, um you've specifically referenced capital leases.

I have no problem with that.

Is that really all you're talking about, or are we gonna try and pay off some bonds or something?

Yeah, so um yeah, let's let's talk a little bit more about bonds just in in general.

So we do have the bonding capacity at the end of this year.

Um if if uh you know if the goal was to maintain our current rate, uh what's our bonding capacity for this year?

That's about four million.

Next year, uh July 1st, there are several bonds that are callable, and right now the the there is uh economic savings per perceived uh to be there.

Um I think we have the option of how we might realize those economic savings should we do that refunding um which would probably transpire probably in mid-April next year.

Um I I think those are uh essentially we can lower our general fund appropriations for bond payments once that refunding occurs in April.

So I I can't get to a place where uh I can do the the refunding next year in time to say, hey, I I no longer need to appropriate two million or three million or something like that to bond payments in 26.

I have to make those appropriations.

Uh but we have the opportunity to use that as a tool to lower our ongoing operating cost again for perhaps 27, 28 as as we kind of find out what the new normal is with property taxes as well as the uh city lit.

Okay.

So um it in essence you're saying there's a bond that's callable, it's maybe at 4%, and the chances are it'll go to six.

You're saying pay that off or something.

Is that what you I'm saying there's a bond out there that's uh at six, and we have a chance to refinance it at four percent oh okay, great.

Okay, and in turn we can uh there's some we know there's overall uh uh financial savings, economic savings in there, probably to the tune of like seven to maybe ten million, and it just depends upon how we want to when we refinance how we structure that savings in here, whether we spread that out over uh the remaining years or try to make it a little bit more lumpy on the savings so we get more of the savings on the front end, but continue the the same payments uh on the back end.

Okay, so so the title of this slide is how we reduce the budget gap.

So I'm just trying to see if I can get a maybe uh a ballpark value to these items if you have it.

Do you have kind of a an estimate of savings that you're working on for this year in that scenario you just spoke about?

So in terms of the capital leases, uh uh let me double check the actual savings of that, uh, but it's to the tune of two to three million in terms of how much how using one-time dollars has lowered our ongoing operating cost to the tune of uh two to three million.

Um I've not built in any savings to 2026 based upon the uh opportunity to to refinance uh those or refund those bonds next year.

Uh had I had I built in that assumption at this point in time, one uh I would have to kind of rely on uh the market not changing between now and next year.

Yeah, but but then also functionally I would have I have to appropriate in our budget the uh the bond payments as they're due right now, and then when we would do that mid-year refinancing, we would be like, oh, okay, we we just generated three million of savings that we don't need to make bond payments this year.

Um now I can make this other department whole that we underfunded in the budget, and it's just got to be a little too uh cross your fingers and hope this works out.

And I I didn't want to exercise that option in 26.

I got it.

I'm just um I think the more info you provide helps me to understand your work.

So do not think I'm I'm there's any uh any uh complaint or anything here.

Okay, so on fewer personnel, I heard the number, but there's obviously a value to that.

If you could send that to me via I send it to all of us via email, I'd appreciate that.

Service delivery innovation.

Now that must have something to do with this ERP.

So are you saying if we invest in the ERP, we are going to save X dollars on the other side?

Um so that was not an example that was contemplated here.

Um I'm happy to kind of go into the weeds a little bit on the um on the ERP if you like.

No, no, I don't want to go there.

Uh that that uh yeah, they'll get mad at me.

Um so tell me what this third what bullet point refers to, and if there's a dollar value.

Yeah, it's so the so the one that immediately comes to mind is is uh basically going about our utility locate services more efficiently.

Um today it's not uncommon for us to send four different um uh uh whether it's it's our team members or a contractor working on our behalf.

It's not uncommon for us to send four four people uh in response to the same 811 uh call.

Uh going forward, this is going to be a responsibility of just the utilities department where we're hoping to get to a point where it's one person that can do all the marking and everything to cover the both uh uh water, wastewater uh representing the uh IT department from the uh uh is there underground fiber there, and then also street department uh from the uh uh which which largely kind of uh looks at the stormwater function and where those so I get it, I understand the concept.

Um if we do 243 locates a year, do you have an average are you gonna be able to say here's the savings?

We could okay if you can send that to me.

Anything else other than utilities?

Oh, you know, the quartermaster is it is another great sample.

And and uh again, that that saves a little over 200,000, but I'll I'll double check.

Thank you.

And then um on the revenue uh from fees.

Are there any new sources of revenue?

Um other than I get it, you could raise the fees we currently collect, but are there any new ones or any places where you're going to start charging for something that we do not currently charge for that might fall into this category?

I know there's a new type of there's uh another building inspection we're gonna be doing.

Um I literally had a two-minute conversation with um our the head of our building inspection.

The other cities are doing we're not, and so I don't have a lot of all detail, but happy to get that for you.

Okay, um, that that'll be a new fee charged as well.

Okay, and I'm just I'm sure that fee schedule will come to you, right?

For approval, yeah.

And that's and I get it, and we want to capture those.

And I just add that there's no assumption of new fees other than some of the fees that have kind of a built-in um this always goes up by kind of cost of living.

There's there's no assumption built into our revenue projection for next year based upon hey, we we ought to do a wholesale uh uh rethinking of some existing fee or impose a new fee.

There's nothing like that built into our revenue project.

Okay, and so this item up there on the screen would not doesn't um indicate that there's any changes to how we recapture expenses from festivals, charging for trash, charge charging for the use of stage, anything like that.

That's correct.

Okay, right.

Thank you.

Counselor Snyder, and then Councillor Locke?

And then I'll probably want to say something.

Thank you.

Um I had one and you mostly answered it, but uh bonding capacity on is just based on the delta to get our tax rate.

But if we have this 3.6 and money that we had saved last year, that could also contribute to increasing that bond amount.

Um just throwing out options, not advocating one way or another.

But when you talk about callable bonds where there could be savings, I would just question and ask you and my colleagues that after the reissuance fees and refinance fees, is the savings really worth the impact that could be made on the community with versus new dollars.

Because I I have made that mistake before where I thought it was gonna be a substantial savings, and then at the end of the day, it's damn near a wash, and you've lost the ability to actually make an improvement in the community.

Yeah, I'm I'm I'm happy to kind of share kind of the numbers that we're looking at on that so you can see the the real financial savings.

Um while the general fund uh is the largest impact there, it does uh the potential refinancing does uh produce savings uh much smaller, but for a few other funds as well.

But I'll happy to share kind of that what that looks like with with council.

Thank you.

Um and then one thing that I haven't seen or heard you talk about is we're either gonna have an additional million dollars of income this year or reimbursement this year or million dollars of income next year.

So if you could provide the update on the reimbursement for the bridge, the insurance payout.

Yeah.

Um really need some of these are some questions if you could pass on to engineering.

Really need an up-to-date spend down and overall update on all of the infrastructure bond from last year.

We tried to do that in committee and realized we were grossly under informed, not intentionally we just either aren't asking loud enough or if we could asking you, hopefully we can get the spreadsheet.

There's a spreadsheet we've all kind of gotten used to looking at, but really need to know where those stand.

Um then when we talked about additional fees, uh I DOCS has put together really blew my mind that it a phenomenal updated packet of what they're proposed.

Um fee changes are bringing us up, which I think is good.

Um I don't think those have been made public yet, but I thought that that is that's one step, it's one thing that they have been working on.

We we're also working on right-of way, which will start kind of capitalizing, making making right-of-way safer and help with restoration, uh, not on our dime, but then also generate revenue through uh usage at hand penalty for damages that we historically haven't done in an uh in an attempt to correct behavior.

So there's some additional revenues, and I know none of these can be forecasted for next year, but I just wanted to comment on the question, and then I think that's all I've got at the moment.

Councillor Locke, and then um I have some afterhand.

And mine's just a clarification.

The we talked now kind of twice about that money that we pulled out as kind of reserve on the budget based on revenue last year at the council process for the budget.

That was appropriated to 1206 for street repaving a month and a half ago, um, because we didn't get the wheel insert tax last year because of the timing issue, right?

So we do not have that 3.6 million that we cut last year.

It was already appropriated to roads to fill back the eight and a half million, just for the record, just clarifying that out there.

We will get the wheel tax and surtax this year, which will add to that eight and a half line item, which means we won't have to take it from revenue reserves.

So if we were to find float in said budget based on the process we go through here, like we did last year, um, that becomes another kind of rainy day exigency as the things change or we find out that real tax doesn't hit or whatever happens uh that we can't really plan for.

That's just stating that for the record.

So you can clarify.

You've clarified it, but Tony clarified it first with an opposite answer.

So um now we've got two clarifications on the same thing.

Well, I think that's one of the things that we were gonna comment on that because I didn't that what it hit me later what he said uh after we moved on.

So that three three point six million.

We recognized was gonna be a need for this year to get to the paving that we wanted.

It was set aside, it was brought to you to approve, and it's been appropriated and bid out.

And and I'll just add to to uh counselor Locke's uh points there for 2024, our general fund reversions were that 7.2 million.

And so I I think we kind of thought about this is how do we address money that we really weren't even counting on coming back to the general fund last year, using that to uh uh to do again a one-time cash injection of 3.6 million to replace the the food and beverage tax revenue that that did not come in this year.

And and while I think it's important.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, not food and beverage, uh the uh wheel taxes are taxing.

Right.

Well, I think it's a the reason it's important is we get honed in on this budget process with the zero base and it's closer to zero, and we're running into tighter revenue.

Um we're gonna lose the capacity to do these strategic things with that flow because we're not in a kind of a glut of extra funding there because we have done two things to kind of minimize that amount.

So for last year specifically, if you think about it from the tenor of revenue at the end of it, we'll be able to look at this once we kind of finish this year.

We may be running at kind of a deficit for spending in 2025 based on the revenue we generated, but because we had float from the previous year and then float in the budget based on that transition of general fund revenue to street repaving that would have been from another source.

So I say that in full context, like not to say that 2025 is a deficit, but that that's a structural and reasonable deficit based on the operations of how the budget will flow from year to year.

But we as a council and as a community are going to see this more often and more nuanced because of those two things coming together.

One the zero-based budgeting, eliminating budget float on its face, and then two, just a differentiation in the way that revenue is flowing in.

So we may have to see if we don't create a kind of reasonable budget reserve or something in it on the process there.

We may have to see spending from a rainy day fund or another fund to make up for exigencies like that.

Um, unless we find other ways to kind of have revenue held back.

So that that's the intent of my overview today as we get deeper into looking at all these other budgets coming in the coming weeks.

But I I think you're spot on.

I'll I'll I'll add um you know uh an example of kind of how we're getting uh uh smarter in in budgeting in in order to try to get more budgeting to a department's actual need and really kind of uh while it was never in there as fluff or or cushioned, there there was some extra in some departments that but that just by budgeting it differently, we're we're pulling that down.

And and that example is uh on our tuition reimbursement.

Today, every department uh uh you know throws a little bit uh of a guess into what their their tuition reimbursement needs might be uh for the following year.

Uh on average, we usually appropriate 110,000 across the city for tuition reimbursement, but on average we only spend about 40,000.

So we're over appropriating 70,000 a year on average for tuition reimbursement across departments.

The way we've handled this for next year is uh we are appropriating the the 40,000, but we are appropriating it at the HR department, as the HR director is kind of in in law and process is the final approver on whether or not that's a eligible uh uh expense for reimbursement.

We funded it there, and that's freed up $70,000 in the budget that we can reallocate towards towards other needs.

Um Councilman.

Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in on you, Adam.

Um, but a specific question to that.

So the 40,000 which is being pooled, I'll call it pooled money to HR, who then who then, and you we can get into the weeds during the department reports, but I'd love to know who's going to make the decisions on Joe Smith being able to go and be reimbursed and his tuition's X amount versus you know Sally Smith, who has I'd like to understand how that process is going to work, especially for just being in the in the interest of being fair, right?

So I'm sure you guys will be fair, no shade there, but just curious how that's going to work.

Absolutely.

Um I have a few questions if that's all right.

I wanted to about the experience, Carmel, um, based on kind of the document and some of the conversations we had.

So I did my math that you wrote here 1.4 million in savings.

I think I had a different number when you subtract the 80% minus the 1.8 million dollar grant, but let's say a million and a half, you know, just for sake.

So this amount that we're saving, I'm gonna ask a whole bunch of questions in a row, and then you can kind of answer what we can, and maybe we can answer more later.

Does this mean we're having the same number of events?

Are we scaling back the events?

We have I think 848 thousand for current incumbent marketing staff.

So are they is their employment transferred over?

Are they guaranteed to be hired by this new profit?

Are they at the same salaries?

Do they still receive city insurance and benefits?

I don't know how they would get that for a nonprofit, but are they getting an increase in pay to cover that?

Um do we essentially need to fundraise 1.4 million to do everything at the same level in 26 that we were doing in 25 when it comes to events, or is that being realized through cost savings?

What is the fundraising gold in order to do what we've the people of Carmel have come to expect for events without having to cut back there?

Um you kind of said this some of the planning for this would start even before the end of the year.

Um does the city council do you need city council approval to create this nonprofit?

Or is our really only say in this matter whether to appropriate the grant to get it started?

Um can this I don't think in the past the city has ever been in the council's ever been involved in the creation of a city created nonprofit.

So is this something you even need our approval for?

And then finally, if you know, you talked about not only that private donations would need to make this work for 26, but over time there would hopefully be a reduction in city grants to support this with future um uh private donations to support this.

So one question that I have is what kind of guardrails do we have in place if again I'm gonna say a crazy example, you know, a developer has a project coming to city council, and they say if you don't approve our project, I'm pulling the funding for this event and it doesn't happen.

How do we prevent that from ever occurring?

So we're not getting into a pay-to-play situation where donors are now lobbying the city government in order to say hey, it'll be your fault if we we cancel this event because if you don't approve our project or or whatnot.

So how so the to recap the 1.4 million, how is that savings being created?

Are the city employees that are transferred over there?

Well, will they be hired the same salaries?

Will they get insurance?

How much do we need to fundraise?

Does the city council even have a say whether this nonprofit is being created?

I'll try to address these and give you more detail as a follow-up as well.

Um but basically for those who are not familiar with this who may be watching or listening.

Basically, we're proposing is a new centralized nonprofit that would be independent yet.

Um an independent board would be formed that would be partnering with another entity that could provide the salary and benefits to the employees.

It would function as a city's official destination marketing organization, which many many cities have across the country.

Uh it would serve as a contracted implementation entity for defined city events, so we would contract them saying we want you to put on these events.

Every year we look at events, but we did not for this particular case take a wholesale hatchet to them.

But every year we look at ones that are viable or not.

You've been a part of that in the past.

Um it would schedule and program the public assets like Midtown Plaza, the ICE at Carter Green, and on so on and so on.

Uh it would work with community organizations to assist with other marketing and event operations.

Those are the independent organizations that want to put on events and want to partner with the city.

And if you remember with through the ARC process, we detailed those types of operations, nonprofits, and we have, I believe you've seen before with Kelly, but she's got a very robust spreadsheet that her and Megan worked on about all the events that we do across the city and what type of events they are, and we'll make sure that if that doesn't ring a bell, we'll get that to you again.

This entity would also manage the uh community volunteers that help with the large scale events, um, working with the just serve the initiative that we just rolled out recently, but also develop a financial model to support organizational sustainability.

So, in essence, what'll happen is a board will be formed that we talked about saying 50-50, but community leaders who care and love our community and understand the value of events and festivals and how they impact our city would be the leaders that we would choose to have oversight here.

Um obviously there is a community appropriation or excuse me, a city appropriation.

So we could start this nonprofit without you, but if we don't want if we want appropriation, that probably isn't the wisest way to go about it.

So we're proposing a partnership in how we do this because we all care about this initiative.

Um eventually we think this this could also house city-related nonprofit entities like the Carmel Chris Kinlemart, but those would be future who also has a separate board, but those would be future discussions that we could undertake later.

And I say that only because we talked about that a few months ago.

And handle community giving and vetting.

Again, these are future things that we could discuss, but we put in here for full transparency.

I will get you how the breakout of the 1.4 in savings.

I talked about the events.

Uh employee, so these would be new jobs that are created with new job descriptions because it's not a city job anymore.

So city employees would be invited to participate in and in for those who wanted to do it, interview.

Obviously, we've seen what they can do, so it would be strongly they'd be strong candidates coming into that.

But this would be something the nonprofit would oversee.

So they would not have city insurance and benefits, but part of the grant over going over would obviously to be to pay for the overhead that includes that.

Uh fundraising would be a part of it.

We're proposing two advisory committees, an events of programming one, and a fundraising and development one where we actually have some expertise there.

Um from a guardrailers, guardrails with the developer, I I don't see that as a big issue moving forward.

Uh we don't have many developers now that fund our events.

We have city partners that do, clearly.

So that would be a pop you know policy, but that's that nonprofit entity would set up the rules and regulations, so to speak, around fundraising.

Okay.

Do we know how much we would need to fundraise to continue to do in 26 just for next year what we the people would come in to expect from you know based on last year?

I know not we don't always do everything in events change, but to say not we didn't have a mass cancellation of events, what do we need to fundraise?

So the proposed funding for 26, which is in this document that I sent you, the city contract for select city events and marketing purposes, we would pay them 275,000 to manage those for us.

City funded funding for incumbent event and marking staff would be 848,000.

Grant support for impact events, 600,000.

Transfer from the 825 gift fund 227,000.

Access via city oversight to the 902 non-reverting fund dollars of 1.2 million, and prepayment of select 2026 event costs, like perhaps some support for Veterans Day or Martin Luther King Day.

I don't have a number there yet, but that would be dollars we would transfer over there that were previously budgeted as well.

And of course, rent-free office space in City Hall to help get them out of the nest.

So that's the funding sources for 2026.

So they don't if they don't fundraise a dollar, everything stays the same.

That's my understanding, and I'd have to dig in a little bit deeper within the without the numbers right in front of me, the the details behind all this, but that's my understanding.

However, we'd want them to start fundraising day one because uh the opportunity is to grow this and reduce the the grant support from the cities.

That's the opportunity that other entities do.

For instance, corporate memberships, there's a fundraising opportunity where large corporations want to pay to participate and have events and activities in the area.

Um so and if you look at again major cities, uh they all have these uh DMOs in place.

So we'd want them to start fundraising day one, but understand that that's can be incremental growth over time.

So how many?

So if we don't need fundraising to make this work, one why set up the nonprofit, and two, how do we save 1.4 million without relying on external donors?

We make this function incredibly cumbersome for our staff and for those that we partner with.

Every contract that we have to let get into goes to a lawyer.

Everything has to come through BPW.

We're slow and we're not very agile.

That's not a function of the employees working, it's a function of city government.

And we want to make sure we can get out of that via higher performing organization with better expectations for our partners.

I will detail the 1.4 for you later.

So we BPW would no longer need approval to they wouldn't need that to do the events anymore.

I think what we could do is bring them through as a as a group, but it's just the process that we have to go through is cumbersome.

We feel like an outside entity would do a better job of managing that quicker, faster, better.

And I think we're talking about from a contract contracting perspective, not in terms of approval approval for uh you know blank closures, things like that.

Okay.

Uh counselor lot.

Yep, and just as we again get into kind of next week with that, can we go through all of the events and keep that kind of an open process?

Yep.

Um would love to kind of keep that moving as though this is a branching path discussion.

Um then secondarily, um, and this is just procedural.

Are you planning to upload all of the documents related to this and all the other things to the transparency portal of the website like we'd have done in the past?

Um, and will people be able to access that from the public to kind of weigh in and look at it and have thoughts as we have in past years, or just I know it's not up yet, and we're just kind of starting this, but when I ensure we get for the record, yeah, happy to application there for everybody.

Uh most of these documents should have been uploaded uh about the time that we started our remarks today.

So I'm not sure if they're there yet in the finance.

Uh yeah, it was going to include this presentation.

Um, this document for uh it's paramount.

It was it did not be.

We can make sure that goes out, counselor Watt.

Counselor Warwick, Counselor Snyder, then Councillor Minor.

Thank you, Mayor.

You you did a great job of answering um counselors Os and uh uh questions.

So a couple of my questions were handled there.

Um when things changed regarding how we handle events.

We had a uh the city used to oversee contractors, then we went to a process of hiring our own event planners and created those people within Mac.

So when you talk about cumbersome and that it's you know not efficient, um I have filled out many BPW forms in order to hold Carmelfest or whatever.

So um did the old process not work where you had a couple of people saying, hey, it so help me understand that.

Maybe that's just the way to do it.

So we had contractors in the beginning helping with event planning, and it was very much the feedback we got from our existing staff was that uh they felt like they were not in touch from a strict strategy standpoint, uh that the outside contractors are really kind of controlling the events versus internal staff, and then handing off the tactical aspects of the events.

Keep in mind we're in a different year.

This is a new reality this year.

I would probably do things differently if we had more robust in some ways, do some things uh differently if we had more robust revenue.

We feel like one helps us reduce our costs and be more efficient, and two, this is just a better model moving forward.

So we made those decisions year one based on the information we had at the time and having lived through the last year of experience with these events.

We just think we can serve our constituents better and reduce the need on the taxpayers' dime uh by putting this on a nonprofit.

Again, that's community leaders in it that we trust and select to help us lead through this.

Okay.

So it also invites a community in, right?

As well as saying these are important to us.

Um because they're gonna have years to the ground just like we do, as far as how these events um function, how they support our overall mission in the city.

Okay.

And when um so uh when I uh see things like um the city sponsored, I think that's what they're called, city sponsorships, sponsor a table, um, sponsor fireworks, sponsor this or that.

Is that all so like all the tables, all the organizations where we you know are supporting them through the purchase of a table?

Does that go over here now as well?

I want to separate that um because I'm gonna I'm gonna clarify.

So sponsorship to um support our different events would go to this entity.

Say that again, I'm sorry.

Sponsorship.

So dollars that we've already have in an account that have come from sponsorship would go to this entity, this entity would be experienced Carmel.

Thank you.

Uh thank you.

Experienced Carmel would then be responsible for increasing those, maintaining and increasing those dollars that come in.

Now you reference a table.

Are you talking about the outgoing dollars that we sponsor an organization like Prevail or something like that?

Yeah.

A couple of those are budgeted.

We do have some community impact dollars budgeted, and I think that what I meant was down the road.

Some of those decisions we may decide we want to go to them, we may decide we don't want to go to them.

That's a future.

That's why one of the ones I mentioned in the beginning, that may be something we decide isn't a fit there.

Okay.

Um and DMOs, so like the advertising that we do to promote Carmel, that kind of stuff, is that in this entity also?

Yes.

And advertising dollars, okay.

I would love to know that number too, because I uh I'm sure we're gonna see it in the Mac meeting, but I'd love to know that number.

So um, okay, and so this entity then would be responsible to fund, I just the only one I know about is the Carmelfest fireworks.

That would go in this grant that or that would be part of this grant that you're providing to experience Carmel.

That's the one we didn't carve that out, did we?

We kept this in here because we did talk about that.

So yes.

Yes.

It's going to experience Carmel.

And they would decide sponsorship.

So they would decide the amount, the um, you know, can they do they decide the date when the fireworks go off, or does the city still have a role?

Um, whether we do two things or one thing, or when?

I think these are all the details, and we stand up this board and everyone gets input on that they're decided on, but no, the city would still have an ownership and when its fireworks are gonna be.

Okay.

All right.

But how those how those are operationalized is what we want this group to help with to position our city and uh to market our city and to do the events and festivals.

Okay, and then just last clarify, we still use contractors, we just use different contractors for events.

You're gonna have to get into the details of that with Kelly.

Got it.

Okay, thank you.

Counselor Schneider.

Okay.

On the other budgeted funds.

I apologize because I've just been taking notes as talking, and I'm going back and rereading them and realizing I've forgotten to either ask or clarify.

So parks department funds, it just it makes it look like the city is budgeting 19 million dollars, and I'm not just clarify the city's not giving 19 million dollars to the parks, it's more like 340,000.

Um just for anybody watching 106 is remaining is is impact funds not related to CRC.

108, 109, and 1010 are all revenues from after-school programs, loan on dog park, um 103 at the top is township money that the state changed the law and said that we now need to hold that budget.

So at the end of the day, the only contribution to parks is about 340,000 dollars.

And I just want to make sure that's clear.

Yeah, that it's not 20 million dollars.

Yeah, that that and I'll add that that the 300,000 is a subset of that seven million uh general funds.

Um when we on the oh, can we get a list uh of do we have the ability to get money the money that Carmel has contributed to Hamilton County tourism versus what we have received because I get it, there's nothing we can do about that, but that probably needs to become an issue.

Counselor for clarification, you when you say what Carmel has contributed to the case.

Sure, absolutely.

We because the taxpayers through development incentives and everything else have contributed to all these hotels and the surrounding development to make the hotels and even want to be there in the first place.

So the hotels have to pay a grip to the county, and I'd like to know what we've gotten back for our investment, which has been huge, beyond huge, probably unquantifiable.

Yes, we have nearly half of the hotel rooms in the county.

We do not get nearly half of the income that comes out of it.

And I would like to start being a little more squeaky about that.

So if we if there's if that data is available, I'd love to have it.

Um tuition reimbursement.

We we wrote in February's salary ordinance, I think Ryan and I and you wrote the process for approvals, just to touch on so is that still the case?

Just yeah, we we we have not largely touched the the process or anything.

Um I I don't know that we've always followed our own existing policy and process very well, but but functionally um when there's a request from a team member, it flows up to their department head and then uh uh it requires some sort of uh review by the HR director.

That's prior and now that that's a requirement.

Um but just given that the HR director is kind of that last check, um, that's where we've we've uh made those that that uh appropriation for tuition reimbursement, but we're not changing our our policies or processes beyond kind of uh just where we budget that.

So everybody so since there was this huge surplus, did everybody that asked for reimbursement get reimbursement this year?

I'm I'm not aware of anybody uh I I would need to double check, I don't want to tell you wrong.

Uh but uh so let me check on that.

I mean if I I only say that because if not, I'd just be curious as to why not if we way over budgeted and then did we do a good job actually pushing out that availability to the staff to grab it.

I'm I'm not sure that I mean there's there's a requirement in our our long standing policies that that this be uh the intent is is to um uh add skills or education that uh that benefits the employee but but but focused on benefiting kind of their contribution to to the city.

Um it's it's not intended to be uh oh well once I leave city government now I've got this degree or training that I didn't have before, and this makes me uh it sets me up for a post uh uh city of Carmel job, and and I think that's been a place where um I'm not sure people have distinguished uh between that and the uh in the past, and that's gonna be where we we take a closer look is just is does this fit our policy, which requires it to be uh uh education for the purpose of of making this person a uh uh increase in their contributions to the city.

If a class or course was um declined, it's probably because it was I'm gonna make this up bowling uh or something like that, which might have been part of a graduate degree requirement, but wasn't necessarily a good fit for their role and function.

Okay, that makes sense.

Um the so now I'm here I'm on to the experience Carmel, I think just broad questions and trying to organize these in a fashion.

But so is this new thing uh a supporting affiliate?

Are we gonna get into that again?

Uh that is the legal question that I can't answer.

Um it sounds a lot like it to me, but I if if we could get an official again, I think it depends on.

So we're just starting.

I mean, we've given a lot of thought and a lot of time into this, but this is what we get to do together, right?

We get to make those decisions together.

Um, and but standing up the obviously the nonprofit um corporation right away uh is would be the first thing the legal formation as is creating the bylaws and defining that structure, the board compensation and the operational framework.

And then is I I had a quick note here and then I went back, but the Kelly's spreadsheet could we re-get that so it's back at the top of our yeah, I have that on my to-do for sure.

Um when a smaller group organization wants to do a community festival, and now they need to go through another group through the experienced Carmel.

Is revenue that they may generate from the festival to go back to them.

I mean, presumably many organizations do festivals to raise money for their own organization, or does experience Carmel take that money, not take the money.

That's a question I understand a lot of it's not vetted all the way there, but I wouldn't want to inhibit the ability of some of these groups to try to start something, which I would agree with you completely.

Okay.

Um the groups that don't the board denies them funding.

Why what's to stop them then just from coming to city council and asking us to appropriate the money?

I mean, it just especially if it's some of the long-standing ones that we're the fireworks were listed, and I I'd hate to see the fireworks take a hit so that something else that this board wants to try or do or whatever.

Um I could see this now.

We just have three entities, BPW, this new group, and the council now vying for what are the most important festivals or functions in Carmel, and then you said you'd said um well one, it invites the community in.

Like I like to think the community is already invited in to anything here.

Um but you said we may decide to we may decide for it to go to them, we may not decide, which but the operating word there for me is we, it's it's no longer we, it's a it's an independent board, so we the city don't really get to choose.

Well, we're setting up this initial function right with the bylaws and the operational framework, so um we do get to do that, and I think that's part of the magic, and it's not gonna be perfect day one for sure.

I just get I get concerned that we're now setting up another board that we're gonna try to control.

And that is what has gotten things in other communities here as well in trouble in the past, and I just would like to avoid that.

I I guess I look forward to learning more about it.

I currently have reservations about it.

Along that point, so we have an ordinance um sitting in finance committee that would uh create basically guidelines for nonprofits that receive substantial city support.

Uh we've been sitting on this since um the Chris Kindle Market Board has now given the city council these two appointments.

But with the um the news of experience Carmel, I've asked the finance committee to discuss this ordinance again.

Uh me personally, I can't support the creation of it without this ordinance being in place to ensure one that we get board seats, and two the reporting because all this money that used to be open to the public as a part of our budget would now go into a nonprofit that doesn't have the same reporting requirements.

So if they were going to receive substantial city money, I would hope that they um have the same kind of open transparency that we would expect from a city department from a city department, even if they are a nonprofit.

And again, I want to under score we have we have 50-50 board appointments, so we can decide that up front, and that makes sure it sits it um meets the intent and letter of the ordinance or your desires, but I think that we've tried to be thoughtful about that up front so that it can be truly a collaborative initiative, one that we can all be proud of, and one that fits the needs of our community in our city.

I apologize, council, but uh this was scheduled 9 to 11.

I have a hard stop right now, so I have to buy another meeting.

Um schedule one of my meetings so I can keep going if counselors want to.

Okay, Zach, can you hang around for a little bit?

Yep.

Okay.

Councillor Minar, and then Councillor Locke.

Sorry, yeah.

So um and and I'll I'll hash this out with you at the meeting, but I just want to be really clear about the arts funding.

And it sounds as if you're saying we're gonna deb abolish the arts commission that's we currently have, and then move it over to the I think that's up for discussion.

Okay.

That was one of those things that they perhaps could do that someday.

I think we need to decide what we want with that.

We can leave it here to help um make those arts grants decisions, or we can put it in this other nonprofit.

Um I think that's up for grabs.

Because either one has community members helping give him sure, sure.

Yeah, thank you.

But I want to be very clear, we're not abolishing the arts grants.

No, no, no, no.

I meant some of the commission.

Yes, the commission that decides the grant funding.

Thank you.

Counselor Locke.

Yep, and this is Zach, you can probably have we spent any money setting up experience, Carmel.

Yeah, legal fees, structure.

I I say that as we get kind of questions of drafting those documents.

I wouldn't pay for us to be spending city money on it until we understand that this is something we're moving forward.

I I I'm almost positive the answer is no, but I'll I'll go back and double check, but I'm really confident no.

Thank you all.

Councillor Warell.

Yeah, I was just gonna comment that when we um set these meetings that we probably should allow some overflow time because the budget's extremely important to our community.

We all know there's a challenge, and uh you know, I appreciate you moving your appointment, but for everybody in staff, just because it says 11, I don't think we can guarantee it's gonna be 11.

You know, just based on how these went last year.

So I'm gonna make sure that I've got time and I hope staff, I hope the mayor, I hope everybody else will do the same so that we do the work that needs to be done.

Yep, that's it.

I I think overall we've added two more meetings to the process this year compared to last year to to try to uh answer questions.

Um, but also if if anybody wants to uh meet with me offline, whether it's big picture or in the weeds on a subject, I'm I'm happy to do whatever I can to provide you guys with all the information you want.

That being said, if anyone does have to to go from the council, I understand, but I will keep going until Zach's cut off.

Um and uh if that's okay.

I do you have a cutoff too?

So okay, I will just we'll get a few more questions if we need to.

I have questions, I'll be back in about five minutes.

Okay.

Counselor Locke, anything right now?

Counselor, does she go for it?

Okay.

Um I think my concern is in understanding the details in the arts funding budget for myself and to ensure again, piggybacking a little bit on what Councilor Rile had mentioned earlier in moving this 1.8 million dollars.

Um, how is that actually affecting the line item in the arts budget and what's happening with that?

Where are the grants?

I just want some more details because I I feel like I just can't understand it unless I have a little bit more um of this fleshed out.

Um and I want to make sure that um I I think the joy of of many of these events in the city is that they are city events.

Um you know, the fireworks are a good thing.

So I had to interrupt you, we don't have a quorum now that two counselors have left.

I apologize.

So I think yeah, I know no more viewers.

We can wait for one to re can let's um pause for a second until one returns just because I can hold the thought.

It's good.

Can the state's witness have a restroom break too?

Okay, all right, thank you.

May as well all take one then.

A few more questions in before we um call this meeting.

Counselor were out.

Oh, no, no, no.

Counselor Josh first.

Counselor Josh.

No, that's okay.

I'm just gonna finish my thoughts.

I mean, basically a couple of things.

So trying to understand, you know, as we as we look at this potential change of moving one point eight million dollars, what I'm trying to understand is how this affects any kind of arts grants.

Um, if this actually affects the overall uh line on the arts budget, if it's going to inadvertently reduce any of that, I just want to be clear on that.

I want to understand the details on it.

Because that was something that we had asked previously.

Also want to understand, you know, with regards to creating um potentially this this new entity.

Um I was saying really I enjoy the fact that the city and we as city counselors are um integrately integrally involved in some of the decisions of what are things that happen in our city, right?

So as we move events or other, you know, things over to this not-for-profit, I really think it's important that we have some say in this.

Um, because that's the joy of people coming to Carmel, and for us being able to be proud and say, hey, you know what?

This is a carmel event.

This is a carmel city event.

If it's a nonprofit event, can we really say that anymore?

Can we say that all of these events that we put on, you know, Carmel Fest and all of the other beautiful events that we're putting on are actually city events.

Yeah.

Um, let me respond to that one first, and then I'll come back to the the arts grants kind of piece.

Um, I the some of your your questions are or concerns are are I'm probably not the right person to to answer in terms of the the oversight.

Uh but I will say, I mean, as it's been proposed right now, um, council would have two appointments to to the nonprofit board, mayor would have two appointments, and then I think uh it's it's the idea is there's three community organizations that would also have uh have appointments on the board.

Um in terms of uh seeing the details on the arts grants and the total funding, uh, that pie chart that I was mentioning earlier, that will be part of the the the presentation for for next week during the budget workshops.

But we're targeting Thursday to basically send out all of the presentations for Monday and Tuesday.

So you'll have those in advance and for the weekend and everything.

So hopefully that hopefully that addresses your questions and concerns, but if not, happy to get in the weeds once you once you see it.

Counselor Okay, thank you.

Um the city funding for incumbent event marketing staff, eight hundred and forty-eight thousand is uh in reference to under financial framework in this document that we received last night.

How many potential employees is the result of that number?

Yeah, so uh I I believe I I'd have to double check the total number of employees at Mac today, uh, but I believe that number is approximately 15.

If it's not 15, I'm not trying to mislead you, I just don't know the the exact number.

Um under this plan uh roughly half would move uh to the nonprofit.

The remaining half, uh about seven people, uh uh three would move to other departments uh based upon the the work really just does not fit in with the the nonprofit.

Uh and then uh there's currently there are currently uh the request is for four comms people that would be uh kind of what's left as a as a city function funded directly from that uh Mac department.

Okay, 848 matches up with those people salaries and kind of the other operating expenses associated with that.

And this will be uh this is another example why that org chart is so important to know the function of those four people that remain, assuming it's gonna be social media, probably an admin, and then the the people who write the stuff.

So but so going back to experience Carmel, that means that um if we're talking about eight people is kind of what I'm hearing.

Yeah, seven to eight somewhere in there.

Yeah.

So eight people, yeah.

So um five of those are event planners, but there's some other folks involved, like videographer, channel maintenance or uh peg channel maintenance.

I don't even know what the third one would be.

Um why would experience Carmel need a full-time videographer?

Yeah, I I think the idea here is that uh the marketing function, separate from the the comms function, but the marketing function would also be uh uh something that we would uh contract with uh with uh experienced Carmel to provide those type of of uh services, and so the idea is that anything marketing such as the uh the videographer that that those folks would be uh housed at experience carmine.

Well, so okay, so that yeah, I I mean we hired this full-time videographer, and when I see the work that that they're putting out, it is Carmel Connections, it is um the mayor giving uh a speech at Mooncake Festival or whatever.

Um why would we con why would we go another layer with experienced carmel?

The nonprofit's gonna say, hey, we we've well I think they're gonna say you if you want us to pay for this, then we're going to charge you for this.

So I'm trying to figure out where this cost savings is coming from.

I want to get back on that question.

Go ahead.

Sure.

I'm so sorry to interrupt you, Jeff, but I just to your point, I just want to make sure I'm I'm understanding that because we would we left paying contracting video services to in-house, now we're taking it out of house.

Yeah, that's right.

That's what I'm I'm just trying to understand your question so I don't re ask it.

Yeah, and I and I apologize.

I am I'm not the best person to get into the weeds.

And that's why I made my statement.

If it says 11, we all know these budget things don't follow two hours.

So I'm gonna ask for the person who knows the answer to come to to stay for these meetings.

But all right.

Oh, that's just a little frustration on my part.

I'm gonna call but I want to piggyback as a comment on that too.

If I would really wanted some question on the videographers, including experience Carmel, what are the duties?

I mean, I go to Midtown, there's a TV screen, and it's the mayor.

It is the mayor interviewing people, you know.

Where do we would this nonprofit be working to not only promote events or but be promoting the city, promoting the chief executive?

Um what happened?

You know, we used to have videographers at ribbon cuttings for businesses and you know, plenty, you know, the state of the city event, those kind of things.

Would that you don't have to answer that now, but I'm wondering, would this person be covering all of that?

And does that go away from the because I'm sure this nonprofit needs a mission statement, and is the mission statement can't be to save the city money by not having to do this anymore.

Counselor Schneider.

And I realize you're not the one with all the answers, but you're the one here that needs to pass these along if you could.

Um awesome point Dr.

Joshua made about just the council involvement and this no longer being caramels, and like we all champion individual events that either we've grown up with or we have helped create, or these two especially.

Um we've been involved, and it just kind of removes that direct feedback.

And the people, when they have a problem with the event, they come to us, and now we either say go talk to a board, or we now have to be subservient with our own money allocations to a board.

And again, there's not much information out there, so I still want to learn more.

But I don't also see how this is any different than promote Carmel, which was never set up in my opinion, to ever make money, and then it became all about making money.

Um we're just doing it again under a different name for a slightly different purpose.

And then I would argue that if this is going to be a donor-driven mission, like we could probably anticipate.

I'm sure the mayor can anticipate who the donors are this year, next year, probably the next four years, but after that, and any time there's an administration change, donors leave.

I mean, they it gets heated, they don't like the new mayor, they don't like the old mayor, they don't like a new council member, they don't like the old council member.

That it's just not a saying we're gonna rely on people's lives for salary or donations for people's salaries, and it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Um we are it has worked, it's worked for years and years and years, decades and decades we've had wonderful events, and it's not until just recently that we we've started to have concerns or that things have changed.

Um the math doesn't quite add up.

Um I don't understand how if the staffing is the same, no donations needed events remain the same, but we're still saving 1.4 million dollars.

I don't understand like how that's happening, like it's through an efficiency, because if we're finding an efficiency through being inefficient, it seems like we could save even more money by just implementing the efficiency at the city level.

Um then the people that are moving, if they are critical to Carmel now, how can we lose them for a dedicated?

I'm sorry, it's okay.

After this question, we'll probably yeah, we'll have to close the meeting.

I just have to be on call 11 that's fine.

You're fine, you're fine.

We'll wrap up.

So how can we lose them for a dedicated role where they're not able to help the whole city anymore?

They're just helping this at a nonprofit, and then on the videographer thing, then don't we still need a videographer?

So we're losing one to them.

We still need one.

Well, we're not paying a video, we're not paying, we're I I would not advocate this council pays a non-for-profit to use their videographer to then do our meetings.

Um then I've got a million more questions about it.

I'll I'll leave that.

Uh one one thing not involved in that is the ERP large sum of money.

If in the future you could or whenever go through and just kind of talk about what are some things it might because when it was first pitched, it was here's a huge sum of money to buy this, but what else does it do?

Does it take over other things?

Yeah, no, I appreciate that question and and uh all the questions, but on on the ERP, I'm I'm gonna be sending out kind of uh uh I'll call it a white paper, uh hopefully today or tomorrow that really gets into the big picture on on that project.

And and also uh uh I think we have more than one funding option there too, so I'll address that as well.

I'm gonna wrap this up.

Any urgent questions at the moment before I wrap this up?

Thank you, sir.

Oh, no problem.

All right, we'll call this meeting close.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.