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OPENPUBLICA · PUBLIC MEETING RECORD

Record of Proceedings

Carmel Land Use Committee Discusses Rental Cap and Right-of-Way Permits – September 17, 2025

City Council — Wednesday, September 17, 2025

BodyCarmel, Indiana

SessionCity Council

DateWednesday, September 17, 2025

StatusFILED

Video Record

0:00 / 1:20:37

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0:00

Yeah.

0:02

Good evening and welcome to land use and special studies committee meeting Wednesday, September 17th, here at the Carmel Clay Public Library.

0:11

It is 532.

0:13

We'll call the meeting to order.

0:15

We've got a number of things on our agenda.

0:16

We are going to start with amendment to ordinance D 274-25, which is amendment to our short-term rental ordinance.

0:28

Initially intending to include condominiums, and it after review became more of a cleanup and just and um so we're gonna talk about why the condominiums were included, what the thought behind that was, pros and cons, and um I do want to note that this was championed, sponsored, and authored by counselor Rich Taylor initially, and he's not with us, so even if we send it out of committee tonight, it's probably not in its final but maybe it is.

1:06

I don't know.

1:07

Oh, we'll see.

1:08

The only correction, not short-term rental, just rentals.

1:11

Oh, I'm sorry.

1:12

I'm sorry, rentals.

1:14

Rentals, period, the rental cap ordinance that um is effectively intended to be a citywide cap of 10 percent by definition of neighbor by neighborhood geographic boundaries.

1:27

Yep.

1:27

If I phrase that correctly, yeah.

1:30

Okay, Sergey, you ran through the amendments that have been made in in the original ordinance that mostly cleaned clean things up.

1:45

Um the issue with the condo condominiums being included, my understanding from learning from Shannon and you and Ted are uh the statutory difference between a condominium and a townhouse and who owns the dirt underneath.

2:07

Correct?

2:08

Correct, and they'll look more according to condominium act of Indiana, which is Indiana Code 32-25.

2:16

It regulates a lot of relationships between condominium owners, owners of the land with dirt underneath, home um HOAs, uh it's fairly robust, long statute that regulates a lot of aspects of condominium operation.

2:34

It does not address uh rental caps, but nonetheless, a lot of the areas relating to condominiums are preempted by the state of Indiana.

2:45

So that's uh that's a main difference between condominium and single family homes and town homes.

2:51

So my my initial instinct was that absolutely condominiums should be included just out of fairness for all property owners in Carmel.

3:02

They still they still own it's an asset, it's a tangible asset if you own a condominium.

3:11

And I'm not sure I've come off that I think it should be that way.

3:14

However, no HOA uh condominium HOAs are the strongest because they're more confined.

3:24

So we're not talking about uh 400 acres of single family houses where it's hard to get four people together.

3:34

It you're you're very tight-knit.

3:38

Um I invited uh Sydney uh who's on the board directors of Timber Creek to offer up opinions, and I have no idea what your opinions are.

3:46

And I'm gonna say I don't care, not that I don't care what your opinions are, but either way you think I just want to know the truth.

3:52

Being on an HOA board, what are your thoughts about this?

3:56

First of all, would you define uh short-term?

3:59

Well, it's not short.

3:59

I was I I misspoke.

4:01

Oh, okay.

4:02

Any rental at all.

4:03

So for anything day 30 days are more than 30 days, 30 days.

4:08

Um we have a cap on ours.

4:11

We have I think it's 10 percent.

4:14

And um we don't really care for the rentals, but it's part of the um bylaws that we can rent.

4:24

We have a waiting list right now.

4:27

Yeah.

4:28

So you already do the 10th percent cap?

4:31

Yeah, I believe it's 10%.

4:33

We do have a cap.

4:34

That's a great thing that you're so that ordinance is either way, it's not going to affect you specifically.

4:40

Because you only regulated the same way.

4:42

Yeah, we regulated.

4:43

What if you had a cap that was 20%?

4:45

I'm just making that up.

4:47

And the city came along and said, Well, we can't regulate individual condominium owners.

4:52

What if we said to you, HOA board, because you own the dirt, we want you to impose a 10% cap.

5:00

Like how would you we don't own the we don't own the dirt?

5:03

Each person owns the dirt.

5:05

We have 192 people and they all own the dirt.

5:09

But but but they signed over management operations to the HOA board.

5:14

I mean, through your bylaws, you guys manage all the public space.

5:19

Maybe through a management company.

5:21

You guys at signatures.

5:23

So if you impose that, like how would that be received?

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting

Engineering And Infrastructure████████████████████████████████32%

Short Term Rentals██████████████████████████26%

Land Use Planning███████████11%

Public Safety████████8%

Procedural█████5%

Public Engagement████4%

Active Transportation████4%

Environmental Protection████4%

Pending Litigation███3%

Summary of Proceedings

Carmel Land Use and Special Studies Committee Meeting – September 17, 2025

The Land Use and Special Studies Committee met on Wednesday, September 17, 2025, at the Carmel Clay Public Library. The committee discussed two major items: an amendment to the rental cap ordinance (Ordinance D 274-25) and a proposed right-of-way permit fee and fine structure. Key topics included the inclusion of condominiums in the rental cap, HOA approval requirements, and enforcement of right-of-way violations.

Public Comments & Testimony

Cindy (Timber Creek Condominium Board): Speaking as a board member of Timber Creek, Cindy noted that her HOA already has a 10% rental cap. She expressed mixed feelings about rentals, stating that renters do not always maintain properties as well as owners, but acknowledged that the HOA tolerates it. She supported requiring HOA approval for rental permits and suggested that the city should require a letter from the HOA, not just a checkbox, to ensure compliance.

Discussion Items

Rental Cap Ordinance Amendment (D 274-25): The committee reviewed amendments to the rental cap ordinance, which originally aimed to include condominiums. Councilor Rich Taylor, the sponsor, was absent. Attorney Sergey explained that condominiums are governed by Indiana Code 32-25 (Condominium Act) and that some aspects are preempted by state law. The committee debated whether to include condominiums. Cindy’s testimony and comments from councilors led to a consensus that requiring an HOA approval letter (for initial permits and annual renewals) could address concerns about condominium inclusion. The committee also discussed the need for a formalized letter, possibly under penalty of perjury, to reduce fraud. Councilor Matt expressed concern about city involvement in HOA enforcement, but others argued that the city only needs to verify that HOA approval exists, not the reasons behind it. The committee also discussed requiring a three-year ownership period before renting (versus the proposed one-year) and the need for HOA clearance on fence permits, similar to building permits.
Right-of-Way Permit Fee and Fine Structure: The committee reviewed a new fee structure for right-of-way permits proposed by Brad (Engineering). The proposal includes a $175 application fee, a $500 street cut fee, and a $200 path/sidewalk cut fee. A fine structure was also introduced: $250 for first violation, $500 for second, and $1,000 for third, with six defined failure points (e.g., failure to provide notice, failure to restore right-of-way). Fines would accumulate per violation per day. The committee discussed the need for a non-reverting fund to track revenue, enforcement mechanisms (e.g., withholding future permits), and the importance of addressing utility vehicles blocking paths without detours. Councilor Jack raised concerns about the lack of standardized traffic control on multi-use paths and the need to include MS4 (stormwater) violations in the fine structure. The committee agreed to review the final language in a subsequent administrative meeting.

Key Outcomes

Rental Cap Ordinance: The committee voted unanimously to move the ordinance out of committee with a favorable recommendation, pending the insertion of language requiring robust HOA approval (a formal letter) before a city permit is issued. The ordinance will go to the full council for further discussion.
Right-of-Way Permit: The committee did not take a final vote but agreed to continue discussions in an upcoming administrative meeting, focusing on legal review of the language, software functionality, and possible inclusion of MS4-related fines. The goal is to have the ordinance ready by January 1, 2026.

Meeting Transcript

Yeah. Good evening and welcome to land use and special studies committee meeting Wednesday, September 17th, here at the Carmel Clay Public Library. It is 532. We'll call the meeting to order. We've got a number of things on our agenda. We are going to start with amendment to ordinance D 274-25, which is amendment to our short-term rental ordinance. Initially intending to include condominiums, and it after review became more of a cleanup and just and um so we're gonna talk about why the condominiums were included, what the thought behind that was, pros and cons, and um I do want to note that this was championed, sponsored, and authored by counselor Rich Taylor initially, and he's not with us, so even if we send it out of committee tonight, it's probably not in its final but maybe it is. I don't know. Oh, we'll see. The only correction, not short-term rental, just rentals. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, rentals. Rentals, period, the rental cap ordinance that um is effectively intended to be a citywide cap of 10 percent by definition of neighbor by neighborhood geographic boundaries. Yep. If I phrase that correctly, yeah. Okay, Sergey, you ran through the amendments that have been made in in the original ordinance that mostly cleaned clean things up. Um the issue with the condo condominiums being included, my understanding from learning from Shannon and you and Ted are uh the statutory difference between a condominium and a townhouse and who owns the dirt underneath. Correct? Correct, and they'll look more according to condominium act of Indiana, which is Indiana Code 32-25. It regulates a lot of relationships between condominium owners, owners of the land with dirt underneath, home um HOAs, uh it's fairly robust, long statute that regulates a lot of aspects of condominium operation. It does not address uh rental caps, but nonetheless, a lot of the areas relating to condominiums are preempted by the state of Indiana. So that's uh that's a main difference between condominium and single family homes and town homes. So my my initial instinct was that absolutely condominiums should be included just out of fairness for all property owners in Carmel. They still they still own it's an asset, it's a tangible asset if you own a condominium. And I'm not sure I've come off that I think it should be that way. However, no HOA uh condominium HOAs are the strongest because they're more confined. So we're not talking about uh 400 acres of single family houses where it's hard to get four people together. It you're you're very tight-knit. Um I invited uh Sydney uh who's on the board directors of Timber Creek to offer up opinions, and I have no idea what your opinions are. And I'm gonna say I don't care, not that I don't care what your opinions are, but either way you think I just want to know the truth. Being on an HOA board, what are your thoughts about this? First of all, would you define uh short-term? Well, it's not short. I was I I misspoke. Oh, okay. Any rental at all. So for anything day 30 days are more than 30 days, 30 days. Um we have a cap on ours. We have I think it's 10 percent. And um we don't really care for the rentals, but it's part of the um bylaws that we can rent. We have a waiting list right now. Yeah. So you already do the 10th percent cap? Yeah, I believe it's 10%. We do have a cap. That's a great thing that you're so that ordinance is either way, it's not going to affect you specifically. Because you only regulated the same way. Yeah, we regulated. What if you had a cap that was 20%? I'm just making that up.

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