Don't know whether just to proclamations.

Good evening, everyone.

Welcome to the March 4th meeting of the Chapel Hill Town Council.

We are glad to have you join us.

Um this evening we have two items on our agenda for discussion or action, both are public hearings.

Um the first relates to the proposed bond issuance for redevelopment of the Chase Park and Elliott Woods apartments.

The second relates to an economic incentive for project seats.

So as a brief introduction um to this item for our audience, um, the town of Chapel Hill is committed to being a place that is welcoming and safe for everyone.

This is something we aim for at all times.

Unfortunately, amidst the tensions and uncertainty that exists right now, many in our community are deeply fearful and concerned for themselves and others.

In light of this, we've been asked to reaffirm to our community that our town government remains steadfastly committed to upholding the Constitution, the principles of the reimagining community safety task force, and to centering the voices of local community partners.

Nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb, nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

Nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

And whereas recent immigration enforcement disruptions across North Carolina and America have had a significant impact on small businesses, construction sites, health care facilities, students, child care centers, and industries that rely on a stable, diverse workforce, and whereas the town of Chapel Hill supports coordination with community partners to ensure families and workplaces understand their rights and responsibilities under state and federal law, including the Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Chapel Hill Town Council that all town of Chapel Hill workplaces, schools, health care facilities, senior care centers, residential communities, and faith-based organizations are encouraged to support efforts to ensure respect for the Constitution and inform all people of their rights and responsibilities.

And be it further resolved that the Chapel Hill Town Council affirms its continuing commitment to upholding the safety, dignity, and rights of all our residents, workers, and visitors, and supports efforts to ensure that no family or business faces unnecessary harm due to confusion, fear, or actions beyond that expected by lawful due process.

Thank you, colleagues.

Do I have a motion to adopt adopt R1?

So moved.

Second.

Moved by Mayor Pro Temberry, seconded by Councilmember Nollert.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Before we move on, we also want to reiterate that we are proud to serve a community that stands together and supports one another.

Please know that we are listening to everyone.

To those who are struggling, we are in contact with community partners and we are ready to help.

That brings us to proclamations.

Um this evening we have two to announce.

Um the first is Women's History Month, and I would like to invite all the women in our audience and those who identify to join me up front for the reading, and then we'll take a group photo.

I just wanted to make sure we were good.

Come on.

I think um Susan will take a picture or somebody from COM.

Happily I thought the pants could be on here.

Well, I mean, you don't have to, but we would very much love you to come up.

Right.

If there was a one-year-old baby here, we could have her up here too.

I would hold her all meeting.

First of all, thank you all for being here tonight and for all that you do for our community.

Um tonight, in celebration and recognition of the extraordinary achievements of women throughout history, the Chapel Hill Town Council is pleased to proc proclaim March 2026 as women's history month.

Women have been at the forefront of movements for justice, civil rights, and equality, making invaluable contributions across every field while overcoming significant barriers.

Chapel Hill is proud to be home to women leaders who serve as educators, healthcare professionals, public servants, business owners, artists, advocates, and more.

And they enrich and strengthen our community every day.

During this month, we reaffirm our commitment to advancing gender equity, representation, and opportunity, and we encourage everyone to recognize and celebrate the achievements of women, contributions that continue to shape our present and inspire future generations to lead and innovate.

Thank you.

I'm going to miss that.

That's great.

Oh that's it.

Here we go.

All right.

One, two, three, right here.

Great.

Oh, yeah.

This should go down.

Congratulations.

I will also say that last year, I think Councilmember Nollert was the only gentleman up at the dais.

So things have apparently improved for gender equity up here at the dais.

And you didn't have to be by yourself.

Next.

Up next, Councilmember McMahon will be announcing transit team member appreciation day.

I don't believe anyone from transit is here.

Maybe, maybe not.

As they are keeping the town running, spending time with their families doing what they need to do.

Even so, we wanted to proclaim our appreciation.

So, Councilmember McBann, you are welcome to stay at your seat.

And would you please do the honors?

Good evening, everyone.

Today we recognize Transit Employee Appreciation Day, which will be celebrated nationally on March 18th.

On this occasion, we wish to honor the essential role that Chapel Hill Transit plays in our community.

Our transit system depends on the dedication of bus operators, maintenance crews, administrative staff, and many others who keep fair free service running seven days a week.

Their work connects residents and visitors to jobs, health care, education, and community services while supporting our sustainability and equity goals.

We greatly appreciate their hard work and wish to express our gratitude in advance to every team member who helps make Chapel Hill Transit safe, reliable, and welcoming for all.

Thank you.

Manager Voorhees, if you would please pass along to Transit Director Litchfield and his team how much we value and appreciate the dedicated service professionalism and care they bring to their jobs every day.

Delighted to do so.

Thank you.

Okay, that brings us to announcements.

I do have a few, so bear with me, please.

First off, we want to congratulate the winners of last night's primary elections, including former Governor Roy Cooper, who's running for the U.S.

Senate, Congresswoman Valerie Fushi, State Representative Renee Price, County Commissioner James Edda Bedford, and Orange County Sheriff Charles Blackwood running for re-election, as well as Karen Stegman and Beth Bronson, who are newcomers to the Orange County Board of County Commissioners.

Also, thank you to everyone who stepped up to run for office.

Running for office takes courage.

And our democracy is stronger because of everyone who participates.

And thank you to the voters who made their voices heard in the primary.

Second, March 1st to 7th, 2026 marks severe weather preparedness week, a time for families to review their emergency plans, refresh supply kits, and make sure they know how to stay informed in case of severe weather.

It's also an excellent time to practice what you do in case of an emergency.

So for more information, you can visit the state's Ready NC website at ready nc.gov and be sure you're signed up for emergency alerts from Orange County and the town.

Third, our parks and recreation team has asked me to remind everyone that registration for spring programs is open now, and camp signs up, camp signups begin on March 17th for residents, March 19th for non-residents.

And it is competitive.

So get in there.

Finally, council meets again in two weeks on Wednesday, March 18th at 6 p.m.

at the library for a work session.

Our topics will be stormwater and budget.

Council members, does anyone have anything else to share?

Okay.

Up next is public comment on items not on the printed agenda.

So we're going to invite members of the public to comment on items not on, not listed on the printed agenda.

And for members of the public in attendance and wishing to speak, please sign up with the town clerk at the table on the left side of the chamber in front.

And if you're here to speak on a specific agenda item, there'll be a presentation on the item, followed by council clarifying questions, and then public comment.

To help things to help keep things running smoothly, Mayor Pro Tembury will call two names at a time.

So if you're seated in the middle of a row or near the back of the chamber, please begin making your way toward the front.

Finally, public comment and input is important to us, and I want to remind every everyone in our audience that we want everyone to be heard and feel comfortable when they're at the podium.

So please refrain from commenting or clapping.

Yep.

Okay.

So how many speakers we have?

Fewer than 15.

That is a number, yes.

Okay.

Because we have less than 15 speakers signed up to speak tonight.

Uh we um each person will have three minutes to speak, and we ask that you speak into the microphone so everyone including including our viewing audience can hear you.

And then wrap up when the timer goes off.

Also, please refrain from duplicating sentiments.

If someone else has shared your comments, then please move on to anything that has not already been said.

Um with that.

Okay.

Let's go ahead.

All right.

And that being said, the first person who speaks, please remember to adjust the microphone.

That way we'll be able to hear you.

Okay.

So Marcus Newlander, followed by Samuel Kurtz.

Good evening, y'all.

My name is Marcus Newlander.

I'm a student at Chapel Hill High School, and I'm in charge of uh Tiger Root Screen Collective, which is a club at my school dedicated to environmentalism and improving our school and beautifying it.

And I am delighted to introduce myself to Mr.

Rivers and Mr.

McMahon, who first town council meeting that I'm seeing y'all at.

So lovely to meet you.

So I just want to lay out the background before the rest of my peers speak and club members.

So Hillmont is a neighborhood in the east side of Chapel Hill.

It's uh it borders an existing development on Little John Road.

And what you have is dozens of residents contacting us starting in April 2025.

And we, in collaboration with Mr.

Craig Nishimoto over there, uh who is a board certified arborist and has worked in Chapel Hill for over a decade, have been documenting violations of the Chapel Hill Lumo in these residents' backyards.

So what's the Chapel Hill Lumo?

Uh the Chapel Hill Lumo requires all developers to identify a important trees within 50 feet of land disturbance and install erosion control fencing according to town standards.

So importantly, these this fence must remain outside of the critical root zones of the tree.

So the critical root zone is one foot in radius of the tree for every inch in diameter of the tree.

So it's a pretty sizable area.

But all the roots in that area are really important for keeping the tree upright.

Because if you think about if I cut here, the tree's gonna fall that way.

So what you have is this fencing that's going pretty deep, cutting the roots of these trees, and now the trees are falling towards these residents' houses, which is terrible because as much as I care about trees, I care about people more.

And what we have are three people's property being hit so far and thousands of dollars in damages.

And this doesn't just this just doesn't seem to be a problem that's going away on its own.

These trees are gonna continue to fall as more development is done.

Because you may not see the tree falls as soon as like you cut down some trees next door and put in a fence.

But over time you notice a perfectly healthy tree falling down could hurt people.

It's gonna hurt property.

And it's really up to the town to enforce their own ordinance, the LUMA, and hold the developer to account.

Thank you very much.

Samuel Kurtz, followed by Teddy Hess.

Good evening.

My name is Samuel Kurz, and I'm a student member of the Tiger Root Screen Collective.

I want to address the legal defense that um Town Manager Voorhees offered at the November 12th council meeting.

Mr.

Voorhees told us council he had concluded from a technical standpoint that ordinances were not violated, mostly on the sort of technical reasons that a written permit was issued that allowed what happened to happen.

Meeting notes confirmed he acknowledged the damage and outlined procedural improvements while stating no technical violations had occurred under current permitting.

Eight months later, Mr.

Voorhees has never identified the specific permit authorizing this silt fence placement, much less explained how it overrides the ordinance that authorized it.

TRGC has reviewed the conditional use modifications and ordinance amendments for the Hillmont Stancil development and found no exceptions that allow silt fencing placement closer than the LUMO permits.

I'd also highlight Orange County's own soil erosion and sediment control technical manual states multiple times that improperly built silt fencing must be rebuilt, requires at least 15 feet between silt fencing and property lines, mandates inspection after each rainfall, and requires sediment removal at half the fabric height.

A member of Chapel Hill's own planning commission who reviewed this case stated, quote, it's on Ted to demonstrate issuance of how issuance of a permit stops the town from citing a luma violation in this case.

So consider the analogy.

If a building inspector approves a structural plan that violates the building code, the building is still in violation.

The approval created a paperwork problem and an accountability problem, but it did not erase the code.

The LUMO is Chapel Hill's code.

A permit issued in conflict with it does not nullify it.

The violations need to be acknowledged and corrected.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Teddy Hess, followed by Liam Murphy.

Good evening.

My name is Teddy Hess, and I'm a student member of Tiger Green Roots Collective.

I want to talk about the residents who have been living with the consequences of these violations since since last spring.

Gail Roberts lives at 116 Little John Road.

Three protected trees on her property had their structural roots severed by silt fence trenching.

A 25.5 inch willow oak, silt fencing trenched just 15 inches from its trunk when the ordinance required over 25 feet is now a documented hazard to her home and garage.

A 30-inch willow oak was fenced just 12 and a half feet away when it needed 30.

A specimen pine is now leaning toward her house.

None of these trees appeared on the landscape protection plan.

Felicia Chang and Jeff Brown live at 114 Little John Road.

Silt fencing was trenched just 13 feet from a 25.5 inch specimen pine when the ordinance required 20 and a half feet.

Adjacent clearing removed the wind buffer sheltering their property boundary.

In June 2025, a specimen elm broke and fell onto their home.

Weeks later, another large elm bowed over onto their roof.

Then a massive white oak crashed through their fence and covered their backyard.

These were not dying trees.

They were healthy, established, and protected under town ordinance.

Two families, multiple waves of damage, every failure traceable to silt fence trenching inside critical root zones in direct violation of town ordinance.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Liam Murphy, followed by Noah Gelber.

Uh, good evening.

My name is Leah Murphy.

I am a student member of the Tiger Roots Green Collective.

My colleague just described what happened to two families on Little John Road.

I want to tell you about a third.

And about what of all of them are still waiting for.

Jennifer Leighton lives at 13 Little John Road.

In April 2025, an 18.5-inch sweet gum, silt fencing trench directly at its base, fell and crashed onto her shed.

As of early November, the fallen tree was still resting on that damaged shed.

On June 19th, a 40-inch specimen oak split and fell on her porch.

In early July, a 25-inch white oak, fenced just six feet away when the ordinance required 25 fell entirely.

Three families, three whiffs damage.

April, June, July.

Every failure traceable to silt fence trenching inside critical root zones in direct violation of town ordinance.

When town manager Vorhees told this council that the spirit of the ordinance has not been upheld, he was right.

But acknowledgement without action is just words.

Eight months of reporting and documentation have produced no notices of violation, no accountability for enforcement failures, and no meaningful course correction for the families affected.

Gail Roberts is still living next to trees, the town's own ordinances should have protected.

Felisa Chain and Jeff Brown are still repairing damage the ordinance was written to prevent.

Jennifer Layton sheds still bear the mark of a tree that should never have fallen.

These are not hypothetical people.

These are your constituents.

They follow the rules.

They expect their town to enforce its own ordinances.

They are still waiting.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Noah Gelbert, followed by Hannah Hoffman.

Good evening.

My name is Noah Gelber, and I'm a student member of Tiger Roots Green Collective.

What I will tell you about tonight is not only about Helmont, but about a broader pattern.

In 2023, Craig Nishimoto documented the same tree protection ordinance violations at 2217 Homestead Road.

A separate Chapel Hill development.

Silt fencing trenched inside critical root zones of protected trees and defective landscape protection plans.

More than 15 rare and specimen trees ultimately had to be removed because their roots had been cut by that trenching.

The violations were documented and reported, but they were never acknowledged by town staff.

Two years later, at Helmont, the same practice, silt fencing trenched inside critical root zones of rare specimen trees, and the same defective landscape protection plans, the same planning department reviewing and approving them, and the same denial when violations were measured, documented, and reported.

And now, at 325 Glendale Drive, less than two miles from here, anyone driving past that active site can see silt fencing entrenched within inches of multiple rare and specimen trees.

The defective landscape protection plan for that site was approved by town staff in late summer of last year by the same planning department which approved the Hillmont Plan.

Town Manager Voorhees has proposed revising the LUMO and the design manual as remedies, but the LUMO and design manual were already clear before and during every one of these violations.

The problem is not an unclear document.

The problem is staff who have demonstrated across three sites and three years that they will not enforce the standards that they are charged with upholding and will deny violations when documented.

When this council took no corrective action after the homestead road violations in 2023, it sent a message.

That message produced Hillmont.

Right now, the same cycle is beginning at Glendale Drive.

You have the opportunity to stop it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hannah Hoffman, followed by Briar Kelle Kalavski.

Hi, good evening.

Um, my name is Hannah Hoffman.

I'm also a member of the Tiger Roots Green Collective.

Um, I want to describe to you guys a challenge that has gone unanswered for eight months.

On July 1st, 2025, our advisor Craig Nishimoto issued a public officer 1,000 dollars in cash to anyone who would meet him at 116 Little John Road, bring a tape measure, and demonstrate that LUMO had not been violated.

The challenge was sent to community relations manager, Shay Stevens, planning staff, and all parties involved.

No one accepted, no one came, no one responded.

The reason is simple.

Answering the challenge requires answering three questions at once.

What is the ordinance require?

What are the town standards specify?

What are the actual measurable conditions on the ground?

Anyone who honestly answers all three reaches the same conclusion we did.

LUMO 5.7.3 requires protective fencing installed according to town standards.

The design manual requires silt fencing outside critical root zones.

The critical root zones radius for a 25.5 inch tree is 25.5 feet.

The silt fencing at 116 Little John Road was 50 inches from the trunk.

That is either a violation or it is not.

It is.

For seven months, staff called the design manual, recommended guidance only, disproven by LUMO 5.1.2.

The design manual's own language in CZP condition 40.

The town manager Voorhees offered a new defense, a written permit.

That defense fails too.

No permanent overrides the ordinance that authorized it.

Eight months, three occasions of major tree failures, property damage to three families, not one person from the town willing to stand next to a tape measure and explain how these months how the numbers comply with the ordinance.

The 1,000 dollars is still on the table.

The residents of Little John Road couldn't pause their lives while we waited.

The silence they've received was a choice.

We are asking this council to make a different one.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Briar, followed by Atticus Nishimoto.

Good evening.

My name is Brad Kalovsky, and I'm a student member of the Tiger Roots Green Collective.

My colleagues have laid out a legal argument, the human cost, the pattern, and the unanswered challenge.

I want to begin closing with exactly what we're asking the council to do.

My colleagues will finish with our final requests.

We are not here to make a philosophical argument.

We are here because our ordinances were violated, trees fell, homes were damaged, and eight months of documentation have produced no acknowledgement and no corrective action.

The LUMO calls its provisions the basic and minimum requirements for the protection of human health, safety, and welfare.

We are asking the council to treat these words as binding.

We were asking for five specific actions.

I will present the first three.

First, this council formally acknowledges that the tree protection ordinance violations occurred at the Hillmont Development.

Violations documented by measurement consistent with LUMO standards.

Second, the council formally affirms the significance of its tree protection ordinance by acknowledging the causal relationship between the ordinance violations, material damages.

In particular, we want the council to acknowledge the basic fact about trees.

When a tree's roots are severed near its base, this compromises the tree's health and stability.

Third, the council commissions a formal tree risk assessment of all the trees affected by ordinance violations within 50 feet of Hillmont Development's land disturbance limits.

This assessment should be performed by a qualified arborist following the ISA's best management practices for tree risk risk assessment, third edition.

A level two basic assessment should be performed for rare specimen trees posing risks to the houses along Little John Road.

These three first ask why about truth telling and safety.

Acknowledgement of what happened, affirmed why it matters, and assessing the ongoing risk.

My colleague will present our final remaining requests.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Kolofsky.

Atticus Nishimoto, followed by Craig Nishimoto.

Good evening.

My name is Atticus, and I'm a student member of Tiger Roots Green Collective.

I'll present our final two requests and close our group's presentation tonight.

The council commissions a formal tree appraisal for all trees damaged by ordinance violations behind the houses along Little John Road.

This appraisal should follow industry standards as given in the current edition of CTLA's guide for plant appraisal and be performed by a qualified arborist with established expertise in tree appraisal.

The council commits to responding appropriately to its commissioned reports.

Whether by the developer or by the town, affected property owners should be compensated for damages caused by ordinance violations and by the town's pattern of negligence in enforcement.

To summarize what we have asked for tonight, acknowledge the violations, affirm why tree protection matters, assess the remaining risk, appraise the damage, and compensate the residents who were harmed.

These are not radical demands.

They are the minimum.

They follow directly from the town's own ordinances and from the facts on the ground.

Facts, no one from the town has disputed with a tape measure in eight months.

The residents of Little John Road have waited eight months for the town to honor what its own ordinance calls the basic and minimum requirements for public health, safety, and welfare.

We are simply asking this council to fulfill what it has described as its own primary mission to provide for the execution of ordinances, rules and regulations, as may be necessary for appropriate to protect health, life, or property.

On behalf of Tiger Root Spring Collective and the families of Little John Road, thank you.

Thank you.

Craig Nishimoto.

So thank you for your patience.

I just want to acknowledge that we're we're there's been a long history of environmental ordinances and rules getting in the way of important things for this community.

Um things that you guys are really doing a good job of trying to correct, namely the affordability of housing.

Um there's been a long history of the rules like this, or that sound like this, stopping something that's as important or more important, namely being able to live in Chapel Hill and raise families in Capitol Hill.

So I want to acknowledge that you guys are doing a great job on that.

And I don't want to, but I don't want this to be confused with an issue that's standing in the way of that of that progress that you're making on affordability.

This ordinance and this violation is completely compatible with development.

It is completely compatible with the Hillmont development.

What we're talking about is a very modest, sensible ordinance within a much larger ordinance that just says when you put in the silt fencing, be careful of the tree roots, particularly of the tree roots of rare and specimen trees.

And there are ways, this is not rocket science.

Silt, keeping silt from runoff into the rivers, which is also important, can be done without cutting all these roots and destroying all these trees.

We are asking just for acknowledgement of this.

Um we want I'm I am very pro-development.

These guys probably ran through all kinds of hoops to uh to get this thing done.

Uh Herculean efforts to get through all the ordinances to build this wonderful place.

But part of what they did was to put in tons of silt protection fencing, thinking they were following the rules.

But this is what causes the problem, and we're seeing this over and over again throughout Chapel Hill, throughout Orange County, throughout the surrounding counties.

This is not alone.

The one thing that Chapel has is a really sensible ordinance about protecting the roots when you're protecting the SILT runoff and allowing these developments.

We just want you to enforce it, just want you to acknowledge it.

And if there's something wrong that makes the development hard to do with with with with enforcement of this ordinance, let's fix it.

For a fraction of the time that we've spent trying to document and bring this to attention, we could have fixed all these problems.

This is a simple.

I understand you guys aren't about doing tree repair or post facto tree risk remediation.

That's not your specialty.

It's my specialty.

And I just want to say this is a simple problem to solve.

We can fix this.

We can make this right.

We listed three steps.

We do tree risk assessment all the time, every day, oftentimes for free.

We do tree appraisals oftentimes for free.

We can we can make this work.

Just acknowledge what's going on here.

Help us understand what the difficulty is.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Is that the end of our list?

All right, thank you.

Um I will say that for those passionate about this issue.

I hope that you were pleased about the extra protections that we put into the 860 Weaver Dairy Road project to ensure that trees were protected in the appropriate way.

Um advance of passing a new LUMO, we are ensuring that all projects protect um protect the trees as much as we can legally require.

And things that are private property matters we do not engage with, but I hope that you notice that we have made changes to how we're uh how we're doing things in the interim.

So thank you for your public comment.

And of course, you are always welcome to come and speak because this is um the people's house.

So thank you.

Um moving on to our consent agenda.

I believe we have um an amended consent agenda that an item has been pulled, and I would like to ask staff how we can attend to that issue given the time constraints that we are under Mayor.

I think that um if I understand the council's rules, you you have an option uh to waive the rules if you want to consider an item that's been pulled from consent, otherwise it would go to the next meeting.

And if we um if we hear it tonight, is it uh accurate that we won't be able to discuss it, but we can vote on it.

No, I think you unless I'm incorrect.

It polling an item allows you to discuss it if you if you discuss it and vote on it if you waive the rules.

Is there I'll I'll defer to the attorney.

So I would tell you, I would tell you that the uh in this instance the town manager would be correct in most jurisdictions.

Um I'm looking at the and this when we spoke, um, we would have been in agreements.

I'll just read for council consent agenda.

Items of a routine nature will be placed on the consent agenda to be voted on in a block.

The mayor and the manager will decide which items will be placed on the consent agenda.

Consideration of council meeting minutes shall normally be the last item on the consent agenda.

If council member or members want to vote no on a specific consent agenda item, the item will be polled for a separate vote to further discuss an item, the item will be moved to another meeting.

So although I would agree with the uh town manager, that would be the most efficient way, as he was saying you can pull and discuss it.

The way these rules are written right now, uh, it can be polled for a vote.

And if you want to discuss it, it would have to be at the next council.

And can I have clarification?

Excuse me if we can stay in order.

Uh council member McCullough, followed by Mayor Pro Timberry.

I just wanted to say next week's uh work session, right?

Correct.

The next meeting is a work session, meeting after that this afternoon.

So it would be discussed at the work session voted at next meeting at the one on the 25th.

It could be moved to another meeting.

It doesn't differentiate between a rook session meeting or a council meeting.

Except that we can't vote on it.

Yeah, correct.

So functionally, we wouldn't be voting on it until the 25th.

Correct.

Uh Mayor Pro Tembe.

Thank you.

I want further clarification, please.

So we have, as the manager has said, the option to waive that, and we can discuss it this evening and vote.

Do we not also have a second option, which is for one of us to make a motion to consider something adjacent to this, but it will not be the same that appeared in the consent agenda, which is the reason why it was pulled.

Yeah, so um we looked into that this um afternoon.

Just the issue is it was put on the calendar initially as a consent agenda item, so it would not fall under adding something new, in which, as um Mayor Pro ten you're spot on.

Yes, you could have a unanimous all council members can agree to add something.

But since this matter was initially put on as a consent agenda item, that would fall under these rules that this council's put together that would in essence say that an individual can put no if they'd like and you can put it to a vote, um, but there would be no discussion on it.

Yes, I'm scratching my head as well, but this is how our specific rules read here, and that's what we're stuck with.

Okay, so we have two options.

I want to be clear if you could spell those out for us.

Go for it.

So the two options would be one, it's on the consent agenda, it can stay on the consent agenda if everyone agrees it's a could it's consent and you want to go ahead and move forward on it, or two, if there is a council member that wants to say no, they are no longer a yes, thus letting us know that it's no longer consent.

This council today can take a vote on that particular consent item, but you are you are unable to discuss the specific terms based on the rules as a written right now.

So you still have not confirmed what or affirmed what the town manager has said, and that was actually the option that I was waiting to hear, which is that we could waive that.

Are you saying that we cannot waive that?

What do you mean by waive that?

Mr.

Manager, could you revisit what you restate what you said?

Uh certainly, Mayor Tem.

Um just as a matter of sort of general parliamentary uh consideration uh bodies that find themselves um in a jam, let's say, and still want to proceed, uh, typically are able to uh propose that the rule that's frustrating them be waived, and if the body agrees to it, they can waive their own rules because there's there's no law that says you have to do what we're talking about with your consent items.

Um it's a it's it's a parliamentary question.

Right.

And the town manager is uh correct on that matter.

So you have uh call civil and criminal rules and procedures, you have Roberts rules, and for municipalities, you have a step kind of below that where it's parliamentary rules.

So basically what the town manager is saying is if unanimously you all want to not follow your own rules, that's just a step that you as a council need to think about.

Great.

So let me just say, as the individual who did pull this consent agenda item.

My goal, my objective is for us to have a good open public discussion about this matter.

So I hope that everyone on this in this body supports that that we are transparent with our public.

Uh council member Nollart.

Um I wanted to ask if we were to pull the item for a vote and were not to discuss it, would we be allowed to amend it even if we were not allowed to discuss it?

You would not be able to discuss it, and that'd be interesting.

If they were uh options put for you, you wouldn't be discussing it, you'd be just talking about option A for voting on A or B, correct?

So per if I could briefly like one way of meeting the interest here would be pulling it from the consent for a vote, um moving to amend it and add a name.

We would vote on whether or not to add that name, and then we would vote on whether or not to move the thing forward.

I've given you two options, so you can vote on either of those.

Uh I believe that this is uh I mean parliamentary procedure would allow us to do what I'm describing, right?

So right now we're sliding into the discussion.

So and then that's that's we're gonna that's what if there's already our a pre-ridden like this option A and option B, y'all can take a vote for A or B, and you need five to move it forward.

Um but if we're gonna talk about deviating from option A or B, then you're really going down the discussion avenue.

believe that this is I mean parliamentary procedure would allow us to do what I'm describing right so right now we're sliding into the discussion so and then that's that's we're gonna that's what's if there's already our a pre-ridden like there's option A and option B y'all can take a vote for A or B and you need five to move it forward um but if we're gonna talk about deviating from option A or B then you're really going down the discussion avenue the mayor Pro Tem said that she had pulled the item so is it pulled or is it still alive on the agenda she has made the request to pull it off of the consent agenda she can always say I withdraw my request to pull it off of the consent okay but but just that request is enough to remove it she as to my understanding properly made the request by notifying the town manager by three o'clock today that she wanted that net on pulled from um the consent so to my understanding she's filed all the property oh no I'm not questioning that I'm just trying to figure out whether it's still so unless Camille asks for it to be reinstated it's not even on the agenda right now.

No it's no it's still on the agenda it's just not on the consent agenda it's on your agenda consent is one vote it all goes through right if you're gonna pull it off it's still on your agenda.

But not for tonight.

If you want to have a discussion on it that would be on a different date but you can vote on it today based on how these rules are written okay thank you so what uh so if um mayor pro temberry does not want to rescind the request to take it off consent um but there's an interest in simply voting on it this evening what would be procedurally how would one um make a motion to move it onto the agenda for a vote you would somebody would make the motion to my understanding this matter is talking about a list of individuals someone makes the motion to approve a certain list of folks and then you follow your standard procedure is there a second and then you vote on it but I guess are we doing is that something that we could move to the as our last agenda item are we doing it before we approve our amended consent agenda whatever's most efficient for this council um you can do it before or after the presentations okay but it but it's no discussion if we tonight correct so council do I have a motion I move that this council provide the list of one individual and that would be Elizabeth Sharp to the University North Carolina Chapel Hill to serve on that committee.

That would be our recommendation that's out of order that's not oh I thought we were making a motion you can make a motion to um move this item off of consent for a vote but we are not discussing the item there are no names being discussed or you can vote or you can motion to have it put back on consent.

Those are the options and then you can vote for A or B.

Yeah or B is the two existing list I believe but I don't know why they were I did provide two lists hoping that we could dispose of this item this evening so there are two lists correct that have been provided I'll defer to the clerk she's the one who sent it out I I think so in order to facilitate our she said there are two lists there's an A list and a B list.

And that list was approved by was it approved by majority of this council because there was also majority of this council who requested a single individual on a list which is why we pulled it so that we could have the discussion that's not accurate I did solicit input from all council members on a request that um was made to me in order to give everyone an option to weigh in I asked for suggestions and then it come back and that people give their um preferences based on the responses I got we put together one list then I heard at the last minute that there was um a change so I put together another list and then I didn't hear back on what the majority preferred so I submitted two lists so that people could at least have options but no I did not submit more options than that given that I did not understand what the will of the majority was and council member knowler I'm hoping you can weigh in on the conversation we had today to that effect uh I was going to first move the consent agenda with or without just it's not on the consent so I was just gonna move the consent agenda so that we could pass it if if there's a second and then we'll consider that item separately and then we'll consider this item separately okay move by council member knowler seconded by council member McCullough all those in favor for amended consent please say aye.

With or without just it's not on the consent.

So I was just gonna move the consent agenda so that we could pass it if there's a second.

And then we'll consider that item separately.

And then we'll consider this item separately.

Okay.

Move by council member Nollert, seconded by council member McCullough.

All those in favor for amended consent, please say aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Um I move to suspend the rules of the day.

Second.

Um a motion to suspend our rules by council member Nollert, seconded by uh Mayor Pro Tember.

Can I ask a clarifying question?

Is that the rule around discussion?

Um I I believe it suspends all of them at once, and then we simply motion to put them back in.

The chair still runs the meeting.

I mean, I'll defer to our parliamentary experts.

But you would need uh all council members to agree to, and I would recommend just suspending this one specifically.

Happy to adjust all the um rules, but um yes, that would be something that the entire council would need to agree on okay.

So could you clarify your motion?

Uh uh move that we suspend the rule uh preventing council from discussing uh an item that has been pulled from the consent agenda on the same day that it is pulled from the consent agenda.

Okay, second uh motion by uh council member Nollert, seconded by Mayor Pro Temberry.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay?

Nay.

Okay.

Uh motion fails.

Um then I move that we vote on the lists as presented.

Is there a second?

Uh motion by uh council member Nollert.

They are in your email from the clerk.

I get I suppose I have to move one of the lists, right?

Yes, please.

Um could I'm sorry, I don't have the list in front of me.

Which list has more names on it?

I can we have them pulled up on the screen.

This will not meet so once we have the motion, I'll discuss so do we need a motion just to vote on the list, or do you or do you need to move one of the lists?

One of the lists email from Britney this afternoon.

Does it does it meet the standards of the day for me to say I move that we send the longer of the two lists to the university?

Um I believe that was the first list, was a longer one to my understanding.

So but it is it is it sufficient for sort of record you've been given everything, yes.

Okay, then I move that we submit the longer of the two lists uh to the university.

Hold on, let me just confirm which is which there.

Would it would it be more precise to say the there's one list with council members and one list without?

I move that we submit the list with council members to the university.

Okay.

Is there a second?

Oh, oh yeah.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Could you repeat the next I'm sorry?

I move that we submit the list that includes council members to the university.

Okay.

Is there a second?

Oh sorry, yes.

Uh motion by council member Nollert, seconded by council member McCoa.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay?

Nay.

Okay.

Um two, three.

Uh motion fails.

I think at that point it's gonna come later, right?

Absolutely correct.

All right.

Um, can I is it possible to move that the letter be sent and not hold that up with this list, or is it possible to see if we can agree to send the first name to the list?

Well, let me stop.

Is it possible to move to just send the letter as separate from the list of nominees?

Because I think it's important.

I think everybody's seemed to agree on that.

And that wasn't one of the options.

So we cannot entertain a separate option that I was offering.

I don't see how we can entertain that one.

That's the question.

Can I think the mayor pretempt is absolutely um correct on that matter?

So it looks like the uh motion has uh failed.

But the letter was in the materials.

I mean the letter was in the consent agenda.

That was part of what I pulled.

And so it's not even in there.

Is the is it possible for a council member to make a motion to just vote on the letter since the letter is already on the agenda?

Well, it was put in the same way that we voted on the list that had gotten polled.

Can we vote on the letter that got pulled?

The letter and the list are they're different.

They're two separate agenda items.

There's the same agenda.

The same agenda item that we've pulled.

So it's one item that's so that's appears to be what you all voted on.

So that got polled, the one agenda item, and it looks like it's the letter and the list.

Right.

So then, but then Theo's motion addressed the only the lists.

I company that letter.

And since it was not approved, that letter will not be.

Excuse me, let me get a legal.

I believe that you also provide one item posted questions.

Mayor Pro Tembiri, you're out of order.

Please thank you.

It's one document.

It looks like it's a letter and there's a list attached to it.

So okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Does anyone have any other motions or shall we move on?

Mayor, at the risk of complicating things.

Um if it's council's interest to divide the issue, it might be, and I would defer to your attorney as your parliamentary authority authority, but no one inquired as to whether you you could potentially enter a motion to reconsider and then process this differently by dividing the question.

And I don't know if that would be in order or just put that out there.

Often it is in order to reconsider okay.

Um get clarification.

Hold on, please.

Uh could you weigh in um Mr.

Yeats on the suitability of reconsidering the motion and dividing the items?

So you've already voted on a matter and then you're reconsidering a different matter.

Now, if you're going to reconsider the matter that council member placed in front, I can see moving on that one if there's a change of, but to actually go back and do that.

I'm not sure that would follow the procedure.

Okay.

Um if we vote to reconsider, it would only be for council member Nollert's motion.

And we could reconsider vote on the list with council members and then separate out the letter.

Madam Mayor, would you consider five minute recess um to what end?

For what purpose I love the ad hoc comments that are allowed.

Um Mayor Pro Temberi.

Yes.

I believe I had a clarification question earlier, and I was asked to hold my comments, and yet others have gone before me, and some not even in order.

Do you have a clarification question?

Yes, I wanted to understand what uh manager for Hees was offering up.

I did not quite follow that.

Um if I can respond, I I'm uh I'm not your um parliamentarian.

Uh but it's in sort of Robert's rules land, uh it's typically acceptable for uh a body to move to reconsider an item if they find a defect and there's some sort of consensus that they wish to readdress it.

Uh and so usually the motion would be made by the prevailing party.

Um in other words, you can't introduce a motion or reconsider by uh folks who voted against, but for folks who voted for something, you can move to reconsider the item.

Uh if that passes, then the items back in front of you.

And what item are you referencing?

Uh the the consent item that we just disposed of, it would then be back in front of you as it was if you've suspended the rules and you want to divide operate a little differently than the rules that we're operating under, you could potentially divide the question and vote on the letter separate from the list.

I'm just trying to give you options, uh, but again, I'm not the person who rules on what's in order or not, or what your rules require you to do.

I'm merely giving you my experience as a person who's operated in some parliamentary settings, and I'll defer to uh the dialogue between the the mayor as chairman of this body and the attorney as your parliamentarian.

Thank you.

And I do want to further clarify, Mr.

Yates.

As the individual myself who pulled this item, it is a matter of whether or not I wish to not pull it, correct?

Can this body overrule my request to pull the item?

So when you're on the consent agenda, that means all members are a yes on a vote.

If there is one council member who has elected that their answer is now no.

Thank you.

I just wanted to make sure I understood that.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um other motions from those who were in support.

Uh council member McCullough.

So we take one of the consent agenda.

But it's still on the agenda.

It doesn't put it into a category where we vote on it as a as a group as if it was a regular agenda item.

So to my understanding, y'all just voted, and I think what was the it looked like there was three no's and you need five to to pass it.

So there was a vote on it.

Um council member placed the order and it was not successful.

Oh, okay.

Because I thought it sounded like I heard two no's, but there was apparently a third no.

Okay.

Thank you.

So would someone who voted in the affirmative like to vote to reconsider the item?

Is that is that a potential option for us?

If someone wants to do that, that's sure.

Go ahead.

So moved.

So moved what uh a move to reconsider the motion uh recommending transmittal of a letter and a list of names to the university.

Is there a second?

Second.

Move by council member Nollert, seconded by councilmember Ryan.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay?

Uh motion passes six to one.

Uh a move to divide the letter from the list of names.

Second.

Move by council member Nollert, seconded by councilmember Ryan.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Nay.

Motion passes six to one.

Uh I move that we transmit the letter to the university.

Sorry, I think we have to keep moving things.

We've only divided it at this point.

We haven't actually oh what?

So move move to transmit the letter to the university.

Yep.

Uh second.

Move by council member Nollert, seconded by councilmember Ryan.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Nay.

Motion passes six to one.

I move that we transmit a list of names including council members to the uh university.

We're not allowed to discuss anything, right?

Correct.

Uh that's my motion.

I'm sorry, hold on.

You asked to undo the rules, right?

That failed.

That failed.

Okay, yes.

Okay, yes, good.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, so moving on, we have vote on that list.

Sure.

Move to transmit list to the council members.

He just did that.

There was no second, so the motion fails.

Oh, okay.

Um, just to recap, we will transmit the memo and the list of names will come back to our next meeting.

Um thank you.

Okay.

Um item number six is a public hearing for proposed bond issuance for the redevelopment of Chase Park and Elliott Woods apartments.

Oh, and welcome Lauren Clark.

The deputy town manager and interim housing director and development director.

So, yes.

Um Good evening, Mayor and Council.

I am Lauren Clark.

I am deputy town manager and also serving as your interim housing and community development director.

And tonight we are here to introduce a very long titled item a public hearing on the final approval for the town to act as issuer of multifamily housing revenue bonds for the acquisition and rehabilitation of the Elliott Woods and Chase Park.

Oops, I don't even have the slide up here.

I'm telling you.

Okay.

All right.

Here we go.

It's not up here, but we can Brittany's uh working on that.

Well, I'll continue uh while we get the technology together.

Um the town's housing and community development department has been working closely with our business management director, Amy Oland and Bob Jessup, who serves as our bond counsel and the developer of the property VITIS, the development team who's proposed the rehabilitation of these two communities.

As we described to you last June, when the council provided preliminary approval of the board issue bond issuance, the town is being asked to consider taking on the role of bond issuer to support the preservation of the Chase Park and Elliott Woods apartments.

There are two affordable housing rental communities in Chapel Hill.

VITUS proposes to preserve affordability at the sites while making substantial repairs in a financially feasible and sustainable way.

So to kick off the discussion, I want to just point out a couple of things that are a little bit different, I think, in key points to understand for tonight's conversation.

One is that this is a new approach for the town to preserve affordable housing rental units in the community.

And Emily's gonna go into a little bit more detail about how that might happen, but it is something that's new and different for us.

We want to acknowledge that, and we are learning along the way.

So therefore, we're considering this a pilot project where we as we move ahead with the process, our housing staff, along with assistance from the rest of our town team, will evaluate whether this approach is really effective for us and works for this community.

And Emily will also talk about some other communities who are doing similar type of projects in in other parts of North Carolina.

And also want to say that using a variety of tools to create and preserve affordable housing is a goal of our affordable housing strategy and investment plan.

And lastly, that the town can act as a bond issuer by exercising our authority to borrow as a housing authority, allowing us to support a project that meets our affordability goals without impacting our debt capacity.

Again, this is new for us, and it's a pilot.

So our recommended action for tonight is that the council receive public comment on this action, and our plan is to return to you on March 25th for uh for your decision.

And next, Emily Holt, our affordable housing manager will walk through more details about the project.

And Amy Olin is also here tonight.

Should you have any questions about the bond perspe bond portion of the conversation?

And we're all here to answer questions.

Thank you.

Good evening, Council Mayor.

Um, I'm Emily Holt, Affordable Housing Manager.

Uh, I'm gonna start with a little context on why we're here tonight.

The Chase Park and Elliot Wood Woods communities are both more than 50 years old and in need of repair.

The current owner in Chuco, or the inner church council, was incorporated in the early 1970s to provide HUD-assisted affordable housing at these two sites.

After more than 50 years of management, and Chuco has decided to sell the property and is currently in a purchase and a sale agreement with an affordable housing developer VITUS.

VITUS is now proposing to rehab the two properties while maintaining and expanding affordability at each one.

You initially heard about this arrangement last summer when council provided preliminary approval to the for the town to act as bond issuer for the project.

VITUS has proposed to finance the rehab with 4% low-income housing tax credits, tax exempt bonds, and HUD loans.

The project received its 4% tax credit award last month.

The tax exempt bonds, which are required as part of the 4% tax credit award, must be issued by a governmental entity.

As Lauren mentioned, the town has the statutory authority to serve as the bond issuer by allowing the town to exercise powers granted to housing authorities, including the ability to issue bonds for housing projects.

Before I get into more details on what the bond issuance means for the town, I want to orient you to the two communities we are talking about.

So on this map, Elliott Woods apartments is the one to the north.

It's located on the north side of Franklin Street on North Elliott Road.

Chase Park is off of Highway 54 between the Merritt Mill and Columbia Street exits.

Elliott Woods has 39 units on a nearly five-acre lot.

As mentioned, it was built more than 50 years ago and was last rehabbed 15 years ago.

And while it's a crass town from the other, it was built and rehabbed on the same schedule as Elliott Woods.

So because we have the authority, the developer has asked the town to serve as the conduit debt issuer for this project.

The town would issue $7 million in bonds that VITIS would pay off over the next two to three years.

Acting as bond issuer does not carry legal or financial risk for the town, and the town has no obligation to repay the bonds, and the bonds will not affect our debt capacity limits or ratios.

The town will collect an issuance fee for serving in this role, which we will be able to use to support other affordable housing activities.

Lauren also mentioned that this is a pilot effort that staff hope can be reclick replicated as another tool to attract more 4% tax credit projects.

We have not served as bond issuer for an affordable housing project before.

Housing authorities more often serve in this role.

But other peer North Carolina municipalities have done this.

Davidson, Concord, Clayton, to name a few, and we've talked to some of them.

The project supports our preservation goals and uses a strong affordable housing partner while leveraging public financing.

And the developer is not asking for the town for any other local subsidy for the project.

A little bit about VITIS.

They specialize in the preservation of affordable affordable properties in market areas where the need is greatest.

Since 1993, VITIS has developed and or acquired more than 15,000 units.

These projects, their projects are located across 30 states and include 12 projects in North Carolina that total more than 1,200 units.

They have a combined total of over 30,000 residents that now live in the housing that they own.

The project will extend the current Section 8 contract, which covers nearly half of the units across the two projects for another 20 years.

So that means that residents who are living in the units that are covered by vouchers, so that's half of the units, will continue to only pay 30% of their income toward their rent.

VITUS has applied for additional vouchers for the remainder of the project whose rents are not currently restricted by any public subsidy.

Even without those additional vouchers, the tax credits that they've been awarded will apply to the whole project and add an additional level of affordability protections to all units.

That means that anyone in a tax credit protected unit has to has to have an income of 60% of the area median income or less, and their rent will be adjusted for that level.

VITIS has shared with us and with residents that this will be a rehab in place effort.

This means that as they work on the units, residents will have to temporarily relocate to a hotel, and the developer will pay all relocation costs and associated with that, and relocation is not expected to be more than a few weeks for each household.

The developer has also shared that current residents can remain tenants after their unit is rehabbed.

As a reminder, tonight, we are receiving public comment.

We'll be back to ask council to act on this in on March 25th, and we expect that action to be on the consent agenda at this point.

If council approves that step, the developer expects to close on the bonds and on the project in April, and construction will begin shortly after.

Relocation would begin in the summer, and the project would be complete within a year of construction starting.

We're bringing this item to council because we believe that the project aligns with the town's affordable housing goals for preservation.

We believe that this arrangement provides the most stable option for the project going forward.

If council declines to issue these bonds, you will have to approve another governmental agency to be the alternative bond issuer.

And delays in doing that would threaten the project's financing and viability, and we would not collect the bond issuance fee.

So this is where we are in the final steps of the process.

No rezoning is needed for this work since the project footprint is not changing.

Again, we're asking council to receive public comment.

And in addition to Amy Olin being here, there's a representative from VITIS here as well to answer questions that you have.

Thank you.

Council clarifying questions.

Councilmember Rivers, followed by Councilmember Ryan.

So after the renovation is done, if we go with VITIS, will the residents that are currently in the building be this will they be able to come back to their apartments?

Yeah.

Hi, I'm Evan Laws.

I'm a representative of VITIS.

Wanted to say thank you for the town council's consideration this evening.

To answer your question, yes, the the expectations that residents would return to the unit that they were occupying before the renovation started.

Can I do a quick follow-up?

And they can stay there like the duration, like they can sign another, they can Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

They would be a resident of the property still.

Okay.

Yeah, continued resident.

Councilmember Ryan, followed by Mayor Pro Tamberry.

Okay.

This sounds like magic, but in a good way.

I just had a question about the fee.

Um, is it required that that go to housing, or could that be used to cover, say administer administrative costs that business management would have?

I'm deferring uh it is not required that the fee go to affordable housing because the transaction was related to our affordable housing initiatives.

That was the recommended plan, but uh council could decide to use that for alternate purposes.

Okay, thank you.

Um Mayor Pro Temberi, followed by um Councilmember McCullough.

Thank you.

Are there any current households that do not meet the 60% AMI level?

We expect, based on information gathered from the current management team that there are eight households that are over the 60 percent 60 percent threshold.

And so will they be displaced?

No, so the the tax credit affordability requirements don't re don't require residents to be removed from the property when they're put in place.

Rather, any resident that is on site that is not a qualified resident under those restrictions, the credits for that unit would not they'd be forfeit.

Um and so it's not VITIS's prerogative or our business um strategy or mission to be permanently relocating residents as part of these renovations.

Um we do want to create a community where as many affordable housing units are going to qualified residents as possible.

So we typically have conversations with those residents and see if there are suitable accommodations locally that would be more in line with their income level.

Um but if they decide at the end of the day that they want to save the property and it's their home, then that is the decision, and we uh we stick with that.

Okay, because I thought that question was raised when I heard from Ms.

Holt that the remaining 51% would all be made affordable.

And so we should put in writing, save those homes where the household chooses not to leave, even though they exceed that amount.

Um they be provided for during the renovations.

Will they receive the same accommodations?

Yes, correct.

So we've identified a local extended stay.

Um I can pull up the address, but it's one of the extended stay Americas that's local to Chapel Hill.

Um and so the development budget incorporates funds for uh storing resident belongings during the renovation for that temporary housing.

Um we expect residents to be put up in units with kitchenettes, so they'll be able to cook and won't be reliant on you know meals uh or I guess they'll be able to cook.

That is the expectation.

Um and if any, you know, there's also kind of exemplary funds for transportation for food uh stipends during that period if there was a situation that arose that you know was cause for additional funds.

Okay.

I'm so glad to hear you address the storage issue.

That was one of my questions.

Another question that I have is what's the projected length of the rehab?

And if this were to go through, when do you propose doing that beginning?

So the overall renovation is expected to take about 12 months from start to finish.

That obviously includes site work.

Um, you know, it's not just the in-unit work.

And so when residents move out, their expected stay at this temporary lodging is 22 calendar days at most, um, at which point they'll be able to return to their unit.

There would still be work happening at the project, but it might not be in their unit.

It might not even be in the units anymore.

The buildings might be complete and it might just be you know related to paving or grading or something of that nature.

Um and then apologies, what was the second part of your question?

Just the so the length and when would you oh the the start?

Yes.

Yes, the start of work.

Um so we're projecting to close in late April.

Okay.

Um and the work would not start until June.

Okay.

So conceivably close to when school is out.

I was curious about that.

Okay, Miss Holt, I have a question for you.

Um I know that the town um stepped in to house some of our individual or some of our households that were affected by Chantal.

And I know that um having lived, you know, I mean, having stayed in hotels with families, you get on top of each other.

What I'd like to know is do we as a town, have we given thought to how we're going to support these families as they live on top of each other?

Have we are we prepared to reach out to organizations, say rotary clubs, um, and others who would be willing to support because I do think that there is going to be a challenge for these families.

I in the long run, I think it's what they need, but in the short term, I think it's going to be especially challenging.

So I'm just curious if if consideration has been given to how we support them during that time.

We haven't talked with VITIS yet about that, but um once we close when council takes action and we close on this, um, I think that's a great idea, and we we have those um supports in place because they've been um that's what's been going on in parts of our teams for the public housing relocation, so we can talk with VITUS kind of about how that's gone and um see what ideas there are.

Thank you.

No more questions.

Um Councilmember McCullough, followed by um council member McMahon.

Um I like this idea.

Um I don't remember who said it sounds like magic, but I I agree.

Um yeah, it it it sounds too good to be true.

Um and so I was wondering uh just a few things.

Um we own it, we take care of the things like oversight and and maintenance um issues, operation and maintenance.

Um will there be oversight about maintenance and are there guarantees for issues that could arise, like mold or something like that?

Yes, so we are bringing so we're gonna be the developer and the owner.

So we're in this for the long haul, um, you know, at least 10 years.

At most, you're stuck with us for the full 30 uh of the tax credit compliance or forever.

Um but we are bringing in a new management agent that's based in Raleigh.

Uh their remnant management company, um, and they are a HUD specialized tax credit management agent, so they're very familiar with these types of properties.

Um I think they have over 5,000 units in North Carolina of affordable units uh within their own portfolio, um, and they are gonna be uh on site, so maintenance, you know, full-time maintenance, um, full-time property management on site uh to you know address any questions that come up from residents as well as address any maintenance items um or work orders that come up, you know, on the day-to-day.

Um I've been wondering since we don't we're we're being the conduit, but we're not it's not affecting our bonds, it's not affecting anything else.

Um I mean it sounds like y'all are an established company, but what happens if you default on the loan?

Uh well, there would be no financial obligation to the town.

So in the next two to three years, the bonds will be paid off.

If they're not paid off, VITIS is the sole guarantor of the financing.

So and is there any kind of assurance that the the people who are living in a hotel aren't all of a sudden stuck with being just in a hotel and and not um being able to get into a partially I I've seen horror stories where companies come in and and leave halfway through a project, so I you know I I mean I can uh I don't know if assurances I would lean on our experience for assurances.

You know, we've done this exact type of project, this exact financing structure.

Uh me personally, tens of times, you know, probably in the 30s at this point.

Um VITIS is an organization in the hundred of times.

So I would I would lean on that that we're you know, this isn't our first um time doing this, and we have never defaulted on a loan or not completed construction and brought residents back to a property.

Okay, that's good to hear.

Um, one last question.

Um, is this gonna be like a rolling rehab?

So you move a few out, you fix theirs up, you move them back, you can't exactly thank you.

Yeah, of course.

Councilmember McMahon?

Yeah, uh, thank you.

Um regarding that, do you have someone on staff who handles grievances or like uh you know, if if people have concerns about how things are going, um do you have separate staff that are not the people doing the project that they can reach out to?

Um for like the management or during the construction during construction, you know, if residents have concerns or questions about what's going on.

Of course, yeah.

So we have a pre it's an asset management team, but they're for the specific period between the closing of the project and then the completion of what we call stabilization, um, which is effectively the end of construction.

Um so those dedicated staff to the project have weekly meetings with the on-site team, the contractor, and then their information, uh contact information would be provided to residents, and if there were ever a grievance that was outside of the bounds of the management team or the construction team, then they could bring that to VITIS directly, and they would be the uh individual who addresses that.

Great.

And so um what is your process for informing uh residents?

So after we we prove this on consent, let's say do you have a meeting with the with the folks?

How does that work as far as you informing everyone of what's gonna happen?

Yeah, so we would have a meeting with residents to go over with the construction team, the new management team, and VITIS to go over the general construction scope.

Um that'll happen 60 days at least before the closing.

So we're getting very close to when that meeting will take place.

Um maybe a little bit past it.

But um we we are required to inform residents per HUD guidance 90 days before a relocation takes place in their unit.

So if they are being temporarily rehoused for you know this renovation activity, we will provide them a 90-day notice followed by a 30-day notice, and then outside of that, we're gonna have that larger community meeting at both of these properties to go over uh you know the the general process as well as you know, air any grievances from residents in an open forum.

Great.

My final question those eight households that um would not qualify for the tax credit protected units, and they did not want to, these are great places to live, so you know may not want to move.

Well, they they would come back at a market rate, you would give them a market rate for those homes?

Yeah, so the yes and no.

So the the units are still technically restricted as a low-income unit.

Uh-huh.

And so the rents would be dictated by NCHFA by the state housing finance agency.

Um so it would be a market rate unit in the sense that there's no affordability restriction tied to it, there's no credits, but the rent is still subject to that underlying regulatory agreement.

And so it would be set at a you know, tax credit rent, I believe.

But I might need to check on that and get back to you.

Yeah, I'd be interested in following up.

I think that the main thing is just making sure that people know what to expect that that rent would be so that they would be able to make these decisions that in our community it can take months to find housing.

So um, I would just like to make sure between you and staff that um particularly for those eight households that have enjoyed living there probably for a long time, I don't know, that they have an idea of what that rent would be so that when they're price shopping with other locations, one they have an idea of what the rent's gonna be, but two, there's a sufficient timeline to where those decisions can be made.

So it's not like okay, this is your rent now, you gotta pay it in 30 days, or or else I get a sense that you have practice in doing this.

I just want to make sure that's clear so that residents understand, and then when they call me, uh I'm able to provide a little bit of information.

Of course, yeah.

Thank you.

Councilmember Rivers.

Um this is for staff.

How are we gonna do we have like plans on how to communicate this with the residents?

Um typically, I think because this is a private sale, the developer's gonna have the contact with the residents.

Um we have um maybe about a year or so ago, we have had some communication with residents in the community when there were some challenges that came up before.

So we can talk with the developer about how we might want to uh participate in that uh Mayor Pro Temberry.

Thank you.

One more question, because I was working under a different assumption than Councilmember McCullough helped me to understand better.

So these will be rolling renovations.

How long do you anticipate for individuals individual units to take?

So how long will they be?

Do you project they will be out of their home?

Sure, yeah.

So it's at most 22 calendar days.

Oh, that's quite fast.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yeah, of course.

Are there any members of the public wishing to speak?

Packed.

Okay.

Any other council comments?

This will come back to us to resume the hearing and hopefully close the hearing on uh March 25th.

Um yes, council member.

I would like to say um Ms.

Holt, I've heard from residents that you've done a great job of communicating with them.

So thank you for for that work.

Uh councilmember Nollert.

Yeah, I just want to extend appreciation to you all and to our staff working together through this process.

It's a great project, great opportunity, great track record.

Um I have great confidence that residents will be well served in this process and that our community will be better for this taking place.

Mayor Pro Temberry.

I keep making a mistake.

Um, and we talked about it just the other day, the mayor and I, and it keeps happening.

And I imagine that others in the community will make this mistake.

So maybe not the residents who were there, but understanding, remembering that this is a private project, and it is not the towns.

So I I found myself questioning, and um a couple of my colleagues may have also done that.

So I am curious back to council member Rivers' question of how we as a town will communicate this because we need to make it clear so that we all, including those of us who need repetition, that this is it is a public-private endeavor, but it is a privately executed um project, and that those considerations will be made by FIDUS.

Um the town is how helping to make it possible because of that requirement.

So I think it's important that the town staff communicate that well so that we can point to it that it lives on our website and people know.

The second thing is um 22 days is much shorter than the year that I thought they were facing for each of them.

Um, but I still stand by.

Please um let us know if there are ways that um organizations.

There are many, we are robust with um organizations that want to help and uh would be ready to do so.

One of them I'm gonna put a plug in is Rotary, and I'll tell you about that one later.

But um, we are robust with services and ready to help.

I'm very excited about this project.

Thank you.

Thank you to the town.

Thank you so much, and thank you to staff.

Um, and thank you all for finding creative ways um to partner with all sorts of people and for making sure that we continue to make progress on our affordable housing goals.

So thank you very much.

Um item number seven is up next, um, which is a public hearing on project seats, which is an economic development incentive.

And David Putnam, our economic development director, is here for I don't know, the second or third week in a row.

Just we get to see you again.

I don't know what to say.

I love coming here.

Yeah, clearly.

If you would just bring the baby, then uh we would be square.

I promise she will come back.

Okay, good.

Eventually.

Yeah, that's I'll make sure it's still within this one year time frame.

Um let me pull the presentation up.

Here we go.

Dry work, dry work.

Okay.

Uh good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is uh David Putnam.

I'm the economic development director for the town of Chapel Hill.

I'm here to present to you all a project opportunity for economic development incentive consideration.

Uh the project of which is Project Seats is what we're calling this.

Um just a little bit about the offer and the opportunity that you have to invest in this company and the town.

Uh so what the company is proposing to bring to the table is 41 jobs with an average wage across all jobs of 122,000, 683 or 122,683.

Uh this is a headquarters investment in downtown that's being proposed, which closely aligns with a lot of the energy and momentum that we have building of downtown.

Uh, and really what we've got on the table as far as the town's proposed incentive is uh 10 parking spaces for up to five years.

Um so these parking spaces would be offered uh as a performance-based uh incentive, so the company would have to meet job creation, retention, and relocation goals, and the total value of the credit that would be offered is 87,000 across that five-year period.

So the company would have to meet job creation, retention, and relocation goals, and the total value of the credit that would be offered is $87,000 across that five-year period.

So why am I making this pitch to you to invest in project seats?

This is a priority industry project.

Um, it's a local business, it's a high impact project and a high growth opportunity company, which I think are all really important notes.

A little bit about the company.

So we're getting into the declassification period.

Uh this is the uh the company that we're calling Project Seats is actually Eats to Seats.

Um, it's a local company that was started by uh sophomore actually at UNC in 2018.

It's got a really great story behind it, um, and it's something that y'all should be really proud of.

Um the company is basically a technology-enabled staffing and concession company.

So think Uber Eats to your seat inside a stadium.

Uh, and they use a variety of different web-based platforms in order to help them do that.

And they also do support uh pretty intensely the nonprofit and fundraising atmosphere and philanthropic interests as well through some of their employment models and business activities.

Uh the company employs more than 38,000 W 2 workers across 13 states.

Uh, and the company also provides uh demand labor and operations for these sporting venues and performance venues that are in such high demand right now across the nation.

Uh, this is a highly competitive project because of the company's need for early stage talent.

And so think of early stage talent as those persons that uh have a lot of energy, they might have just gotten some credential attainment from Durham Tech or from UNC Chapel Hill or any other institution in North Carolina, and they want to grab that talent while they have a lot of great ideas and energy and opportunity to then start to mature inside the company and uh help the company grow as well.

And early stage is it is a relative term, so it could be anybody that's gone through new credential attainment, and that's what the company's really targeting.

Um capital investment is wrapped up in the lease negotiation.

So, what I mean by that is they are not going to own the facility that they're moving into.

Uh, so instead, they have uh proposed uh that the landlord would make significant improvements on the facility, and those improvement costs are going to be rolled into the overall lease that the company is proposing to execute.

It's a common tactic for office projects like this, it's not unusual.

Um that's why you know we're looking at this as a jobs heavy project versus a capital investment heavy project.

Um the company is a launch Chapel Hill graduate, which we're also really excited about.

That just further illustrates that entrepreneurial ecosystem that the town has and that y'all have been investing into for quite some time, which I think is a really notable thing that we want to recognize.

So the proposed location for the company is 462 West Franklin Street.

It's commonly referred to as the pitch.

Uh, the property owner is proposing to make a series of improvements on the site to really accommodate a headquarters use.

Uh so real quick on the employment profile for the company.

This is what the performance table is going to look like.

You can see what we're proposing is that five-year period of performance overall 10 parking spaces per year.

Uh, the company has to meet the jobs located in Chapel Hill Row that's identified in the table to receive the full amount of the parking credit.

We do have a provision in the contract to offer a prorated portion of that if necessary.

Um, but the maximum award could be $2,121.95 per job uh over the life of the credit projected annually at 17,400.

And whenever I bring a project before y'all, it's really important to note competition.

Um you're only able to offer incentives, but for without them, the company would not otherwise locate here.

And so this was a competitive project.

They were looking at multiple locations nationally where this idea of early stage talent is really prominent.

That includes Austin, Texas, Nashville, Tennessee, and Atlanta, Georgia.

So my recommended action for y'all today after you open and close the public hearing is to approve resolution 2026 34 R2, which describes offering an incentive to the amount that I described earlier.

Thank you all.

Any questions for me?

Thank you.

Councilmember Nollert.

Yeah, just to confirm and clarify even though it there's a dollar amount attached to credit we're offering in plain language.

What we're doing is giving this company empty parking spaces as an incentive to come here, right?

That's correct.

And we've identified a series of underutilized parking spaces that would best accommodate this company as well.

Um so it's really this is a great deal for the town.

Thanks.

All right.

Any members of the public wishing to speak?

Um, council.

Uh any final comments?

Would anyone like to make a motion?

You would have to close the public hearing and then we can adopt our two.

Move to close the public hearing.

Second.

Move by council member Pacola, seconded by uh Mayor Pro Temberry.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Move we approve resolution R2.

Second.

Uh motion by Councilmember McCullough, seconded by Mayor Pro Temberry.

All those in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Any opposed, please say nay.

Motion is unanimous.

Thank you.

And please say uh thank you to Eats to Seats for sticking with us.

And we are very excited about this great incentives deal.

So thank you for bringing exciting and innovative things to downtown.

Any time.

I love doing it.

I have a question, one last question.

Can they deliver food to council meetings?

We can talk about that.

This is quite the venue.

You know, we do start at six.

Sometimes we go a little late.

So that's right.

Although that sounds maybe like an Uber eat situation.

Like I think that company exists, but either way.

Um that is the end of our agenda.

Um, council, thank you very much.

And I will see you in two weeks at our work session.

Have a good evening.

Uh meeting adjourned.