I'd like to welcome Carta to join us for strategic planning.

Call this meeting to order.

Glad you all are here.

Thank you.

I apologize that we have some slow.

Folks being a little bit slow to get here, but I'm sure they will be.

I'd heard lots of meetings happening last year.

So welcome.

Take it away.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and good afternoon, council members.

My name is Charles Frazier.

I am the CEO of Carta, and I'll allow my colleague to introduce himself.

Well, my name is Johan Denyson.

Thank you for having us.

I'm the chairman of the Carta board.

And I'm doing my service and support of the general development of our community.

Just by way of completing the introduction, I am a recently retired, formerly chief operating officer for the Volkswagen Group in North America with responsibility for operations in the US, Mexico, and Canada.

I think, of course, included also the manufacturing plants and all those locations, but particularly of great interest.

Chattanooga.

A place I moved to in that role.

My wife and I decided we'll call Chattanooga Ho.

So we love this place, and we want to contribute to the growth and development of our community.

With that, I am going to go ahead and get started.

And I want to be respectful of your time, and I know that the other council members will join us.

But I did put together an agenda here, and so you've got about four or five buckets that we're gonna walk through.

And uh good afternoon.

Uh but I would like to just start off, uh Madam Chair, if I could, just with a sincere thank you to you in particular.

Um, for the rest of the council members, um, I'm new to Chattanooga.

Um, so I moved here last year, and so I'm I'm brand new.

I'm a taxpaying Chattanoogan citizen, but you gave me some really good advice when I first got here, and that was to get to know the community, lean on the city council to learn about um how to navigate successfully.

And every single time that I've called the city council members, you've all responded.

And so, even just in some of the pictures up here, um, you've come and spoken at our ambassador graduations, you've come and participated in our celebrations of the reopening of the incline, you've gone on windshield tours with us, you've been to our stakeholder meetings, and so I just wanted to give all of you a sincere thank you for helping me feel welcome into this community.

Uh and so with that, uh I want to just start with some background information.

Um, so from our point of view at Carta, and I'm gonna introduce some folks here in a minute.

Um, we've been at work for the last two years, and so um probably we have some newly elected officials, and so I want to give you just a little bit of background information so that we're all on the the same playing field for this discussion.

Uh good afternoon.

Um so what I want to do is I want to go back to kind of 2019 and 2020, and the city paid for a consultant, Jarrett Walker, to come to this community and advise the city on what to do about public transit.

And at that time, he gave this kind of a not great quote about the system.

And he said it's a legacy of low expectations and low investment.

And what he meant in that was over the years the budget got tighter and tighter, there were service reductions, we didn't spend enough time on investing in technology or ongoing maintenance of our system, and the results of that are pictured here a little bit, and so they're a little bit embarrassing, but I just want to walk you through it.

Um, dead center there, that's one of our shuttles that's over 30 years old that is a piece of duct tape holding it on the side there, it's deferred maintenance, right?

Um right below that, there is a shelter there, but if you zoom in on the left, that shelter hasn't been properly maintained, it's rusted through, it's it's about to fall apart.

Right above that is a bus stop.

Um might look okay, but for for anybody that's trying to use the system, there's no route information, there's no bus stop number, there's no real-time information.

And so the results of this are poor use of the system and low ridership.

Um in 2023, uh, Chattanooga, this council and the mayor's office, uh, did a call to action.

And what you did was you replaced um eight of our board members and seated eight brand new people.

Mayor appointed them city council, approved, um, and then our new board turned around and did a national search, and that's how I got this tremendous opportunity to come here and serve this community.

And so I just wanted to take one second as we're starting off, and I want to introduce you to your board of directors on the Carta board.

And so if I could, board members, would you just stand up?

So first of all, our chair, Johan Denysen is here.

Director Corey Ebbett is here.

Stephen Kolp, director Stephen Culp is here.

Over in this corner, Bill Nye is our director.

The science guy.

The science guy.

The science guy.

Director Leander Sandifer is here.

And then finally, uh Sharita Allen.

And so I wanted to number one introduce you to the board that you've appointed.

Number two, I want to introduce you to some of our management team that's here.

So if the management team would just stand up, I'm gonna start over here.

Scott Wilson is our chief of staff.

Um is our brand new CFO.

She is six weeks in.

She's got um airline experience, transit experience.

We're so excited that she's here.

She's only six weeks in, that's why she's still smiling.

Um behind me here, we have Daniel DeFor, who's our new uh chief innovation officer, and then our amazing chief operating officer is your longtime employee of Carta Veronica Keebles.

Um Doug is our brand new director of planning and quality.

Um, Larrenzell Harper, our brand new director of transportation, and then Brendan is our director of external affairs and communications.

Am I missing any of your team?

Yes.

Yes, Linda Ballard.

Okay.

Very important for Vice Chair President.

This is the reason why is this is you told me about the need for customer service.

This is our very first customer service manager.

And so thank you, everybody, for being here.

She is simply the best.

She is simply the best.

Yes, she is.

Um, council members, the reason I bring this to your attention is um last year during the budget process, you gave Carta an influx of money.

And what I want you to know is you have a team that's here that's dedicated to thinking about how we best serve this community 24-7.

My team is thinking about this.

This is all we think about.

And so I just wanted to have an opportunity for you to see the faces that are working on behalf of the city.

Um, so with that, what I'd like to do is take one step back and just let you know what we've been doing all of last year and all of this year.

And I'm putting it into three big buckets just for ease of digestion.

So the first is establishing a shared vision for where we're headed in 20 years.

And so I think council members, you're familiar with the Planned Chattanooga document.

What I'll let you know is the investments that the city made in the Jarrett Walker studies in the VIA study.

We took all that work and we combined it into the planned Chattanooga document itself, so it's not a new creation.

It just marries your stroke, your uh strategic growth plan with the transit vision plan.

Some of you have seen more of the details than others.

Karen Rennick and I will be bringing a presentation in February to the full council to go section by section through the long-term transit plan.

Um Councilmember Davis, you've seen some of yours, Councilmember Burr's, you've seen some of these details.

But what it lines out for you are the multimodal connections.

There's 31 mobility hubs identified throughout the community.

There are a few high-demand corridors that have been identified.

There's a frequent network that's been identified, and then there are our six new routes, and then a handful of new services.

And I'm talking about van pool, park and ride, things that we have not brought to the table yet.

Um so that's the first thing is establishing that long-term vision.

The second thing we've been doing is stabilizing the organization.

So this is 50 years in the making.

We're two years in.

It's taking a little bit of time for us to start to turn the ship.

So part of this is corrective actions.

And so I'm talking about compliance for policies on how we deal with incidents, accidents, overtime, all of those things, right?

Safety, um, procedures, how we respond to things, um, maintenance, getting all of that deferred maintenance up to speed, creating a capital budget that'll allow us to address those things.

Um, technology is huge.

Um, I remember uh Councilmember Henderson, you pointed me in the right direction last year to work for the enterprise group.

We've got some good partnerships there, and we have we're starting to get a handle on technology.

We've got some work to do still, a lot of training.

So a lot of our staff, they needed training on the requirements for the service that we provide.

There's rules and layers of federal and state and safety rules that we need to do.

Secondly, um, diversifying funding.

So, this is something that um we've been really working hard at.

So, what I want you to know is that last year, one of the first things that happened when I got here, um, Hamilton County pulled their funding from Carta, and it was a little bit of an issue, but um I worked closely with Mayor Wamp and his team, and I want you to know that they reinvested in Carta this year.

They're supporting Caravan, not only in Chattanooga, but Caravan and uh East Bank and I'm sorry, uh East Ridge and Red Bank.

Um, but also Red Bank is contributing, East Ridge is contributing, so we have new local partners at the table, and then a lot more federal grants.

I have a slide that I'm going to share with you in a minute that's going to show you your return on investment for your local match in our capital dollar.

So I want to walk you through that.

So diversifying funding.

Innovative programs, and so this is just bringing kind of some fresh ideas to what we do.

So parking is one of the areas that we manage.

I hope that you've heard about our first hour free incentive.

So I'm going to give you the stats on that.

Um, and it's it's very nice because the uh utilization of parking has gone up.

Um, and then hopefully, no one in this room is not familiar with the read and ride program.

This is where all students are able to ride the system for free.

We have over 1,700 students that are registered.

Um, we see typically now on a weekday, three to four hundred students using the system.

We've generated over 40,000 trips since we started the program, so we've had some good success there.

And then literally, I can't not say this, um, putting out fires.

So we we've literally literally been putting out fires.

Um, but happy to let you know that we did celebrate our 130th anniversary uh recently.

The third area that we've been focusing on is community engagement, and I I want to take a minute here because this is really where I got the advice from city council on how to be successful in Chattanooga.

So I feel like we've really left no stone unturned.

So starting in the bottom left, this is us doing transit tours with interested groups.

So it's schools, that happens to be Chat State.

We're literally taking 20, 25 people out on the system and teaching them how to navigate getting from point A to point B with a show and tell type of a situation.

Um to the right of that, we are also doing classroom training.

So we're going to schools, we're going to the universities, we're hosting at our center, showing people the network and how again how to get from point A to point B.

Um we're also doing windshield tours, so um, that's Councilmember Elliott, but we've also been on uh windshield tours, Madam Chair with you, Madam Vice Chair, we've done this, uh, Councilmember Clark, we've been on the windshield tours, and that is us actively listening to you and taking in what you have to tell us about your community and how transit, parking, mobility, safety can, those are things that we can look at.

Um, in the upper left-hand corner is our rider advisories committee.

I'm gonna have a note for you on there, but what we really want to do is make sure that the people that are using the system have input as we prepare to make changes to the system in the next year and a half, two years.

Um, so those are the the kind of the three big buckets, and now I want to share with you a handful of the successful outcomes.

Um, this is gonna take a bit of explanation, but if I may, this is probably the most important data point that I can share with you in terms of outcome.

I'm gonna go to the screen if I may.

Go for it.

Okay, so um, this is caravan ridership.

This is our door-to-door service, and I want to orient you to the slide.

This is July 24 all the way through August of 25.

And you have on this side ridership by month, so it's 4,000 to uh 6,500.

This is miles-driven, 70,000 to 45,000 to provide the service.

And what I want you to know is we have technology debt, and so we bought over the years technology, but we didn't implement it fully, and so we weren't using it.

And so for Caravan, what we what we did was we activated and started to implement the system last year in October, and what happened for our miles driven, we got a lot more efficient.

So we weren't now driving the 70,000 miles to provide the service, the miles driven dropped down to 45,000.

While at the same time, the ridership started to uptick this direction.

And so, what we saw in a year-over-year comparison because of this efficiency work, an increase of ridership of 54% and a decrease in the mileage-driven, which is the efficiency factor.

So I want to make sure that you understand that this was one of the challenges that we heard initially was the system needs to become more efficient.

Um, so there's a uh double-edged sword, right?

The ridership now is at its highest in Carta history because now it's a reliable service.

And one of our board members during our conversations coined the phrase really well.

We we've opened up freedom, we've opened up access to opportunity.

And so, what I want you to know is since June, it's the it's we've had a record month of ridership for caravan every single month since then.

Um, and so um I want to break down a couple things in the core.

So I'm talking about like along Brainerd Road and through district uh six, eight, nine.

We we have some expectations about what's happening with ridership, but I want to draw your attention to two districts.

District one, which is outside of the core, ridership and caravan has increased, but the largest use of that ridership is for employment, which is interesting, and then consistently as well.

District three uh for council member Davis, also the highest use of the service is employment.

And so this is this is about um economic impact and getting people to jobs at the end of the day.

And so I I wanted to make sure you you see that.

Secondly, um, risk management.

This speaks to safety.

One of the first calls that I got when I started in January of last year was from public entity partners, there are insurers, and they said, Congratulations on your role.

Um, you have a problem with incidents and accidents and your workers' comp.

Um, and so fast forward, we have put a lot of effort into safety training and compliance, and this year in 2025, we received the East Tennessee Excellent in Risk Management from public entity partners for bringing down our overall loss ratio for workers' comp and total liability to below that mark.

And so, just another data point for you about being intentional with our our resources.

Yes, ma'am.

Councilman Hitters.

Yes, I'll go ahead and I'll be I'll just got it.

I'll just got you.

Um, similarly, in fixed route, I want to share that we've had some very good success here, but I want to I want to caveat this.

We have not made any changes to the fixed route system yet.

There's no new routes, there's no increased frequency, there's no extended hours.

This is all from the outreach.

This is the training, the transit tours, getting out and literally showing people how to use the system.

But our average weekday ridership now up 9% in a year-to-year comparison in October.

And for um Councilmember Clark, I remember when we talked a little bit about statistics.

We have a team, and I'm so we're gonna be prepared to provide the data behind all of these.

But what I want you to know is on the weekend in particular, the highest ridership on the weekend in the last four years.

And so we this is from our outreach efforts.

We haven't made those changes to the system yet.

Moving on, parking utilization.

So I want to talk about the impact of making the first hour free at the Carta Garages north and south.

So it's a little bit counterintuitive.

We we we don't expect the utilization necessarily to go up, but what happens is in the first hour, you can see it on the left-hand side, shuttle park south, a 2,000 percent increase of taking advantage of that.

So we used to have a half hour free, we doubled it to an hour, so everyone's taking advantage of that.

But they're staying the second hour, that's up 267%.

Total parking is up 80% year over year, and total revenue is up 46%.

And so we did the same thing at Shuttle Park North with those same types of increases.

And then similarly, I just I I don't want to be too long-winded, but I I want to make sure that everyone understands when the Walnut Street Bridge closed, we did get some outreach from the North Shore merchants about they're gonna miss out on this foot traffic from the Walmart Street.

So we stood up a North Shore Express Shuttle.

This only runs on the weekends, and it only does one job.

It takes people from Shuttle Park North over to Fraser Avenue and back.

And so it's just a quick five minutes.

The whole point is to get people across the river and over to Fraser.

They take advantage of the first hour free.

Okay, return on investments.

I want to talk about grants.

So we when we submit our budget to the city, we submit an operating budget and we submit a capital match request.

In 2024 and 2025, we took your 2.9 million dollar city match, and we went and secured 25.5 million of grants.

And I want to be clear with you that some of that is formula grants.

So, based on our population, based on our ridership, based on our service hours, we get about 15 million dollars of grants that we use for operating preventive maintenance.

But this is what I would prefer you remember.

10 million dollars of this we won from competing for grants.

And so this is us going out and getting money that would have otherwise gone to other communities.

So, right now, in this last two years, we have almost $4 million to replace vehicles.

We have almost $2 million to start.

We have not started this yet.

Implementing infrastructure, which is sidewalks, it's shelters, it's real-time information, um, planning money for a transit-oriented development planning, uh which I'll talk about in a minute, and then preliminary almost three-quarters of a million dollars for preliminary engineering and design of a yet-to-be-determined downtown innovation and transit center for the system.

Okay, I have one more section that I'm gonna let my boss speak here.

I want to just give you a preview of the year ahead.

And so, first thing I'd let you know is we have a lot of internal work that's going on that you're not gonna see.

This is us still continuing our technology upgrades, it's us working on policies and procedures, compliance, but for the public, it's important that you're aware of these things.

First is the park once shuttle network redesign.

All of you should have received in the last couple of days, even a survey that we're asking you to send out to all of your constituents.

They have the ability on an interactive map to drop the locations of where they would like to be able to go on the shuttle.

And so we're already starting to gather the information.

Many of you participated in the stakeholder.

So thank you, council member.

Um who was there?

Councilmember Burrers was there, Councilmember Clark was there, Councilmember Davis was there.

Um, thank you, Councilmember Elliott, your representative was there.

Thank you very much for sending.

But this information is all coming out, and we'll come up with a recommendation from the new shuttles in the summer of next year.

Similarly, we're starting the process of the fixed route restructuring.

And so, what we're doing on the left is going from what we are today to this visionary network on the right.

So, this is expanded service of fixed route, this is new microtransit on demand service zones, this is park and ride locations, this is expanded caravan service all the way throughout the county, and we've already done one part of this, which is establish our service performance standards.

So we're not just doing this without any guardrails.

We're going to hold ourselves accountable.

My board's already, the board has already approved a service standards that will be able to publish how are we doing on our performance.

The rider advisory committee, thank you all very much for bringing me your recommendations.

Um, almost all of the districts have representatives.

I will give a shout out to Councilmember Davis.

Your representative gave us that report after the last meeting, so it was nice to kind of get a summary from the riders that are participating.

The next thing we're going to put in front of the rider advisory committee are the bus stop design guidelines.

So this will be a policy so that we're distributing these assets equitably throughout the city, and then also the new mobility services.

And then finally, in this section, I want to take one minute here because this is going to be a very impactful study.

This is transit-oriented development.

We secured almost $800,000 grant project to study transit-oriented development along our most successful route.

It's the Route 4 along the Brainerd Road corridor.

The purpose of this study, I'm listing the things on the right, and what I want to be clear about is sometimes it's hard to understand the value of these particular studies, but in this case, we're going to use it to have deliverables that will allow us to go get additional grant money to pay for infrastructure.

I'm talking about determining where the mobility hubs along that corridor are best used, but then also in the yellow highlight, identifying the near and long-term infrastructure needs.

This is bike pedestrian infrastructure along the corridor, and then very importantly, the connections either side of the corridor to the neighborhoods.

And so we're talking about bike head, greenways, all of that.

And so the next, when we have the study done, we'll use that finding to get more grand dollars.

And so, with that, this is the end of the slides.

I want to transition to our board chair for just a moment, and then we can take as many questions as you have time for to just talk about open conversation with the city council about Chattanooga's mobility future and where we think we're headed.

So thank you for thank you, Charles.

Madam Chair, I promise I'm gonna try to be brief, although I could keep you detained for hours on this topic.

Um I wanted to perhaps start my commentary from my perspectives as an industrialist, hitting up one of our largest employers.

When the VW plant was established, it was established with the idea of long-term continued growth.

Idea was to integrate the plant, as is the policy around the world now, to integrate manufacturing facilities into the global supply chain.

You assign different products to different plants so that you don't duplicate investments.

You manufacture from one facility for the global market, and you export like this.

It's a long-term win-win solution for everybody.

And so the transition idea was first build in America for America, and then as we get up to speed on this global supply system, we'll expand the capacity of the plot.

And the plant was designed to do a mirror.

Two plants for what we have day to day.

And it was one of the greatest frustrations and disappointments of my entire career.

And it was one of the greatest frustrations and disappointments of my entire career that I had to leave my job when I finished, having failed to convince our shareholders in Germany to set up the expansion of the facilities in Chattanooga.

Why did that happen?

And I will tell you the expansion of the facilities in Chattanooga is essential for the long-term economic sustainability of the existing plant because it's about leveraging economies of scale.

In a global market, there are no favored children.

You compete by the quality of the work, the quality of the talent, and the cost effectiveness.

And that's where the products get assigned.

It's a brutally competitive global market.

We could not attract sufficient talent, the workforce to give us the expansion of capacity.

We couldn't fill the plant reliably for three shift operations.

And I had no real answer to our stakeholders when they said to me, you can hardly fill your plant today.

Where will you get the people for a second plot?

Yet at the same time, this is where the intense frustration comes from, and why I'm involved in community development activities now.

At the same time, the Federal Reserve of Atlanta have done a nationwide study, and the data is about five years old, but it's directionally still as valid and correct today.

That identified in Hamilton County, 40% of households were earning $20,000 a year or less through economic activity.

Now I will tell you two things.

Firstly, you don't have to do too much to earn $20,000.

And secondly, you cannot live well out of $20,000 a year.

So what is the net consequence of that?

These folks are increasingly reliant on welfare support, whether it's housing, food stamps, uh other forms of assistance, child support, it doesn't matter.

And so it stacks up for these folks that based on the same data, a household family of four took their 20,000 and turned it into 65,000 per year, which means you can live not particularly well, but you can live.

And now here comes the dilemma.

These folks are locked into an ecosystem that is just self-perpetuating.

They can never escape the economic confines of their present reality.

Why is this?

There are many, many factors that causes, but one of them, ladies and gentlemen, is absence of access to skills training.

And it's going to become even more important in the future as we transition our economies into the tech future.

When people cannot have access to education and training, they limit their marketability for jobs.

Even if they have the skill sets that are required, but they cannot get to work.

They don't have access.

They are economically disenfranchised.

Do you know that it's not actually feasible to use the public transit service in this city to get from East Brainer to enterprise south?

You cannot get there.

It takes you three hours.

It's not feasible.

And there are many, many, many such examples.

So now we should blame Carter.

We should have had a far more effective and efficient and reliable transit service.

Well, herein lies our dilemma.

And I have great empathy with your challenge.

There are many, many more appeals for resources than there are means to fund them.

And it's always a matter of trade-offs.

As a businessman, I'm not a politician.

I'm probably going to say something that's politically incorrect.

Please don't.

We started there.

Come on.

The people who use our transit services today are the people who have no other option.

That is a terrible admission for us to make.

Successful transit services provide services to the entire community, regardless of demographics, the requirement of economic status, because of reliability, of quality of service, of convenience, of cost effectiveness.

Then people will use it.

And I think for a long time, the mindset here has been well, look, it's for the economically challenged people, they should be happy they get what they get.

And we give them a transit service that's mediocre.

It doesn't give enough broad coverage of roots, it doesn't give reliable service, it doesn't give frequency.

When the bus comes every 45 minutes, who can use the bus?

If it comes every 10 minutes, that's a different story.

So for five years, until your arrival, thank you very much.

For five years, our contributions have been flatlined.

You do that for five years, actually, 20% cut.

And so we have today the reality that we are a chronically underfunded organization.

We provide just enough service to keep the lights on, but nothing that attracts people.

And we cannot get adult education going because people can't get to work.

We can't get the kids to their places of learning, the community called it all the stuff.

And I would employ you that we need to begin to look at transit strategically instead of transactionally because it is a key economic enabler.

An investment into a future vision that Charles touched upon in his presentation that unlocks access to mobility for the people who don't have it, but also provides reliable, convenient and cost-effective transit services to our entire community.

Well, see a return on that investment through economic development and growth.

I'm going to leave it there.

But I believe in it.

Particularly, particularly as dollars that we spend from local uh sources are magnified by the access that unlocked the federal and state fronts.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, ma'am.

We appreciate the time today.

Okay.

Councilman Henderson.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh a couple of questions.

One, so is there is there thought about partnering with Waymo or you know, looking at uh the driverless routes so that we can I guess enhance use AI even more than we're using it now or we have in discussions in that route.

If I may, I can give an answer there, if I may.

Um so I think a couple things.

Number one, um, the city was awarded the smart grant during the last round to um expand your intersection coverage, those smart technology.

UTC is developing their autonomous network solutions.

And so the answer is those discussions are absolutely happening because it only makes sense to partner with all of the communities.

So the second round of smart grants are being teed up now.

Um I've been in some conversations um with the city, I've been a fly in the room with the city and UTC, but I think the answer is yes, um, is that we're leaning into all types of technology uh for the future.

It will be vital actually to making our successful transit structure work given the unique geography of Chattanooga.

We don't really have a reliable grid pattern, and so fixed routes getting into the neighborhoods and back, it's difficult.

So the way to do this cost effectively is precisely to use technology for first mile, last mile.

Bring people out of the neighborhood onto the fixed routes, get them on the main arteries to a transit center where they again do the last mile with autonomous capability.

So one of the things that, and you had it on there.

I think I think your transit hubs in some other countries I've been in to where it look that do transportation very well.

They have hubs that you can go to a hub, and from that hub, that's right, you can get to any point that you want to get to, and then back to there and then to another hub, which it doesn't seem like we do here.

We don't know.

And I and I understand there's always that push and pull between frequency versus coverage.

If you do both, it gets very expensive.

So, you know, we have in the past uh really sort of sacrifice frequency for coverage.

We've tried to we've tried to branch out and spread out, and and so therefore the frequency suffers, and nobody wants to wait 45 minutes on the bus.

So we serve a lot of people putty.

That's right.

Instead of waiting 15 minutes and being able to, you know, catch a bus and go on to the next one, because especially if you miss it, you know, then you're waiting for another 45 minutes.

So I'm assuming that and I guess that would be in the strategic plan, and I think that's one thing that we don't have is sort of a strategic plan of how as you mentioned the the bus routes, the transit would would tie into uh workforce development, how it could benefit us there, and and because everything's about a uh return on investment.

If I mean, you know, for years we've gotten what we've got, but at the same time, you know, I don't think we've expected very much from our bus service.

Um and it may I don't mean this derogatory, it may be the one one of the worst in the in the nation.

uh workforce development how it could benefit us there and and because everything's about a uh return on investment if i mean you know for years we've gotten what we've got but at the same time you know i don't think we've expected very much from our our bus service um and it may i i don't mean this derogatory it may be the one one of the worst in the in the nation uh you know compared to other other cities around that do transportation very well i think i think these hubs is probably one thing that that would help you know have a central location that you could kind of disperse from from there one more question um madam chair the by the way you was talking about uh i think some of it's education you mentioned that the caravans had sort of opened up freedom i think in chattanooga people say the automobile is freedom and i think i think there's a little bit of of re-educating people that maybe that could be different that freedom could be obtained from public transit as well um where in district one did we pick up ridership like is that is that through the caravan or is that through caravan it's okay directly answer it's through caravan we have a heat map so part of um so now that we have a a team together we have a we can give you the heat maps and we can show you and I can sit with each of the council members and start to educate you on where these trips are or are or originating and where they're going and then if I currently I don't think we I don't think there is a route in district not a fixed route but the caravans are there's not a fixed route in district one not yet um so um two things if I may so number one um to your point about the strategic plan and the vision the plan Chattanooga document when Karen Rennick and I come and present it to you we'll be able to walk through there's been 31 of those hubs identified throughout the community I was recently having a conversation with councilmember Davis about the one that's planned for district three spoken to councilmember burrs about the one that's planned for midtown and so we can educate and inform about all of these things um and then just the note I know that you don't I I understand when you say it's one of the worst systems what I want you to know is that this team of Carta employees we are here to change that we I recognize that when I was recruited for this role um this is the fourth transit system that I've had the the opportunity to be a part of and I want you to know that I'm bringing my experience I choose to be here in Chattanooga to change this so I just want you to I would just quickly want to chime in there um it hurts to hear you say that but I won't fight you one of the reasons that I was asked to take on this role was to bring a long and critical eye and you can't run a public transit entirely like a business but you can apply business principles to operational effectiveness efficiency all these things and also that goes to the talent that has got operational responsibility we've changed it the board and I have worked and we have brought on the right talent um we have extracted and got rid of a lot of poor efficiencies for example on preventative maintenance uh part speaking operations hours spent on on on all these things that are now metrics are measured quantified and we've got a hands on them so we are kind of sweeping in front of our doorstep we got most of the dirty way we've exposed the very dirty carpet a little but I feel now we have credibility to say you are no longer pouring funds into water into sand we have built the foundation and we now seek to to build on that and that's the point where we are now and don't misunderstand when I say a poor transportation system as opposed to poorly run that's there I think there is a distinction there I'm just basically speaking of I guess the routes and the service that we're able to provide yeah I would have said that three years ago it was poorly run too well councilman Elliott yes thank you Madam Chair um y'all I uh Charles you've heard me say this and I've said this in passing if we don't figure out a way to beef up our support for our public transit system we're gonna be in some trouble.

Chatting's growing and we don't have any more roads where we can expand and any of us start talking about imminent domain to expand roads they're gonna recall us faster than we can put um so I I've said this as I've come in and I've talked to the mayor about this and though he's interested in this as well we have to figure out a better dedicated revenue source for Carta is not only important for simple day to day but if we do not figure out a way to enhance our public transit system we're gonna be struggling struggling economically it's part of our bigger vision that we all have to align ourselves to but to that point uh Charles where are we at with our hubs I know we need a center I know we need hubs and how much is that going to cost so um there's a couple things that are happening so we have some grant dollars that are set aside that could be used for the purchase of the land the design a potential build um but we are still kind of fixing the foundation so what we have is the long term vision that's been built into the planned Chattanooga document we will be bringing that to the city council to review and so we'll Karen will take the lead on

out a better dedicated revenue source for Carta is not only important for simple day to day but if we do not figure out a way to enhance our public transit system we're gonna be struggling struggling economically it's part of our bigger vision that we all have to align ourselves to but to that point uh Charles where are we at with our hubs I know we need a center I know we need hubs and how much is that gonna cost so um there's a couple things that are happening so we have some grant dollars that are set aside that could be used for the purchase of the land the design of potential build um but we are still kind of fixing the foundation so what we have is the long-term vision that's been built into the plan Chattanooga document we will be bringing that to the city council to review and so we'll Karen will take the lead on the larger project I saw here somewhere um hello I'm just signing this up for a presentation but but also we'll go through the the locations and then I think it's a matter of prioritizing which ones we hit first we are actively looking for the main resource that we need which is a downtown transfer center right now we are just lining up the buses on market street and people are huffing it down the street to make their their changes we've got a couple of leads on things but um this is part of the work over the next year so on my one of the slides it's the fixed route restructuring we're building that plan now so it's in development I think I have a couple questions oh statement and two questions I would love to see when we get that cost so we know what we're dealing with and then we can figure out how we're getting that cost I don't know if Ellis is here.

These are national it may be an opportunity for us to see if our state uh partners can help with that because it's important.

The funding I'm sorry to interrupt you but it's not just about the funding it's also about the locations well well you guys will figure out the locations we're better at suited to help you get money that that's y'all's responsibility and we may be able to help lean in on that but we're we're part of that is making sure that you guys have the resources to be successful.

And then a second question and it's maybe I don't know if this is for you or Phil may know this one can you guys release bonds the answer is yes we have the ability to do so okay and for your first if I may for your for your bonds.

Bonds for your first for your first question those numbers are being quantified now not only for the build out of the transit piece but also all of the adjacent infrastructure I'm talking about sidewalks streets traffic lights bike ped lanes all of that is being quantified now and costed out so that we can see what that is and I'll say this and I want to go back to this I don't want you to think I'm being dismissive by no means but I trust you all as you guys are the experts when you hit the nail on the head we have the right people in the right place.

And I think we have to trust you guys to know what that looks like and so uh I only ask I have leave them here come to us with hard ask so we know exactly what we can do.

If it's helping find land okay if it's a dollar amount tell us so we can help figure that out because if you leave it to nine ten politicians to start trying to figure something out we're gonna be chasing our tails for a while.

Roger that I hear you say thank y'all.

Thank you very much I'll be short because I know we have an agenda I want to go back to the efficiency conversation about outcomes because there's a perception in this community going back to what you said you used to wear um transactional versus strategically how to use transportation as an economic engine and I think that starts with this body and this this community and deciding how we use transit because to his point you know automobiles with the automobile plant people want to drive and there's nothing wrong with that people may want to bike we're an outdoor city so I don't want us to feel like we're cramming transportation down people's throat because that's not usually the attitudes per region differ from New York we don't have the same density in New York would that would cause for the this type of robust public transit system and I really believe that sometimes the return on investment is just not always dollars it's quality of life what I'm concerned about which is why when Charles was telling you you were going down that political sorry you went there but you did um when you talk about how to use this as an economic engine for expansion towards Volkswagen or other things that's why I'm interested in I'm I will never ride the bus if I don't have to and that's okay.

We should not be that perception should not be punished or shamed in any type of way as a way to get public policymakers to give you money.

What you should frame it is is that how does this help the economic infrastructure of communities like mine where I want children working and getting back and forth to a Volkswagen expansion plan.

How do you reinvest those that fiscal savings back into what?

Because we give you 2.9 million.

There's matching grants from the federal government.

I think that's reoccurrent regardless if we put anything in or not.

What do you all do with those savings?

How do you reinvest it back into the infrastructure and then on us when you get the chance?

If you can get the exact numbers, I would love to know what those efficiency changes are, but how they're being how they how is that being reinvested back into your infrastructure and display?

And that's my last question, Madam Chair.

Okay.

Roger that I can come back for the information for you.

In February.

You can come back anytime you'd like.

Yes, February is fine.

Okay, thank you.

I'll follow you.

I'd just like to say just a couple things.

You know, Charles, when you when you came to Chattanooga and we started talking about um public transportation, one of the things that I know I told you, and I think other people told you was if you don't have a plan we we can't get behind you.

And to your point, we finally have something to start getting out.

Um and and so I personally look forward to February.

I think I've got other colleagues at Plan Do as well, um, to see where we're where we could head, you know, to give us a vision.

Um there's been so much work in Plan Chattanooga with so many neighborhoods where people have given a lot of feedback.

And Councilman Clark is right.

Every neighborhood is different and has different needs, and I think that that plan will reflect that.

Um, and and so to layer a transportation plan on that is going to be a useful tool.

Another thing I will just add um the cost to own a car is pretty extreme, and I believe that an individual needs to make an income of at least 40,000 a year to be able to afford to own a car.

Um and so when you think about not just okay, so you've hit that 40,000 threshold, now you can have a car, and that comes with freedom.

Imagine what you could do if you didn't need to buy a car, um, and and how that would open up a good 12,000 dollars of your third of your income that then could be used for rent, right?

Um so I do see a lot of opportunity here, and as a parent of a 21-year-old who uses public transportation exclusively, and will choose the city she lives in by the public transportation.

Um I am interested to see where we head with this.

Um and also I will add that I think the pedestrian connectivity is going to be key.

I had a gentleman yesterday from um district four actually asked me if the number one thing I get complaints about is paving.

And I thought about it a little bit, and then I realized no, the number one thing I hear about is pedestrian safety.

Because what I'm seeing is in some of the neighborhoods in district two, we are getting denser.

Our elbows are closer together, and so that neighborhood need is evolving.

Um, and it sounds like you all are putting together a plan that will help us evolve over the next 20 years.

So, look forward to hearing more, and thank you for being here.

One final note, Madam Chair.

I just want to give your team at the city kudos.

So, everybody in the mayor's like Kevin, Mandy, your entire team.

The reason that that transit layer is incorporated into the Plan Chattanooga document is because of your team.

When I approached them and said, Can we just combine the can we put all these efforts together?

And that way you have some one thing to look at, they were responsive to me.

And so I just want you again, I'm I thank you for all of your support.

I feel supported, and we look forward to continuing to work on your behalf.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

If I may, and then you get the floor on your items.

Okay, yeah, just briefly.

Um I've heard nothing but good things, Charles, in many different circles around the cities and many, you know, you you guys are doing some some great things at Carlos.

So thank you.

Um I definitely think we've got the the right uh folks in place.

Uh, but on a personal note, uh, and this was before y'all's time, but um Carta did a tremendous uh thing for me uh in the community I was running.

I do senior living in Easter of 2020, our uh senior living community was hit by the tornado, and we had to evacuate um over a hundred senior citizens with dementia and different uh comorbidities in Carta was the first on the scene.

Um so thank you.

I think that just really stands out as what Carta is to our community is even in extreme times of need and tragedy, you're there.

So thank you.

Thank you for that feedback, and we continue to be here at your service.

We are public servants, and we look forward to working with you more.

Okay, thank you very much for your time.

Okay, item number two.

Well, really number four, if we're following the Roman numerals, um is the oh, but you know what?

Before we do that, now that we have a forum, can I get a motion on the minutes?

All right, the minutes will stand uh without action.

Okay, so item number four on our list is uh the landscape ordinance from Councilman Harvey.

It should be good because I think it's on this side here.

Is it the right there?

Not over one.

Next one.

Yep.

Oh no.

I was nervous now.

And a bunch of people in here.

All right.

Go ahead.

All right.

Well, thank you all.

Um you're in for an exciting riveting conversation about landscaping ordinances.

Um I think I still have some experts in the room.

Mike Price, thanks for being here.

Um, Karen, I may reach out to you if we have any questions about code and that kind of thing, but uh nonetheless.

So uh basically, this is it's it's a it's actually really simple.

We're just changing some language uh in the existing ordinance uh in the zoning code, um which was changed almost a year ago.

Um so we'll we'll go through that.

So the current code right now says a landscape plan prepared by state of Tennessee registered landscape architect is required for the following, and you can read all that.

Um so this is the uh current and new code which was put into place a year ago.

The old code for over 20 years allowed more than just a registered landscape architect, it also allowed architects and engineers to draft their own landscape plans when it comes to a development.

Am I saying that right, Mike and Karen?

Um so again, the old code allowed for folks to uh do that who were not necessarily a landscape architect.

It's important to note that the state of Tennessee also allows this.

Um so you don't have to be a landscape architect in order to draft your own landscape plan.

You can be an engineer like Mike or a developer who uh wants to do their own landscape plans.

So the proposed amendment is uh keeping uh the existing language of a landscape plan prepared by a state of Tennessee registered landscape architect and adding or a registered professional engineer or architect licensed to practice in the state of Tennessee and having competency in landscape plan preparation.

And so, so why?

Why did this come up?

So a number of things I think answer the why question is amending the ordinance will allow the design professionals of the city to continue to practice the services that they are already qualified to do.

So, folks like Mike Price and our uh developers that we already work with, in my opinion, are already extremely qualified.

They have been for over 20, 30 years uh prior to this amendment, which was adopted just a year ago.

I think it also helps address the affordable housing uh need that we're all talking about from a local, state, and national level.

Uh, it helps cut some red tape and added cost uh when going through um permitting and that kind of thing.

And uh it's also important to note that this was unanimously approved by the planning commission.

Um Hamlin County already allows this.

Um so it's really um not that big of a change.

Um I'll address some of us, I think all of us probably have have gotten some of the opposition emails.

Um, and it it is important there was one person in opposition at the planning commission, and they were a landscaping architect.

Um, their argument was well, this is going to put us out of business.

Well, it's just not the case because for 2030 plus years, they've lived here and have not gone out of business.

Um so it it only just I think helps um open the door for more than just a landscape architect to do the job.

So councilman Elliott, then councilman Henderson.

Um thank you, madam chair.

Um councilman Harvard, I really appreciate you uh bringing this ordinance up, and it definitely gives a lot of us to something to think about.

Something that I'm concerned about is uh my district in particular.

We drape both sides of Missionary Ridge.

And while I don't have a ton of development that comes in my district, I do have a lot of irrigation issues in some of my neighborhoods, and I've kind of I'm not gonna lie, I haven't got bombarded with since I've been to office, and I haven't had easy solutions for folks, right?

And as I plan for the future, and as I plan for certain neighborhoods of definitely to start getting more attention, I'm nervous about that.

Yep, in a city that we already have significant runoff, we already have runoff issues in my district now.

Um not negating the concerns of the development community because I understand costs are expensive, uh things are harder, there's a lot of NIMBYism going around that just like puts pressure on that, and we need to grow.

But I'm concerned that this if this is the right step uh to lifting this regulation.

Um I'm nervous about what it could do, at least from my district.

I know we have a lot of other water issues in other places as well.

So it's just a concern and last piece.

I don't want to negate that um engineering professionals, right?

I'm not an engineer, they know far more than I do, but I also understand that engineers have different specialties, and just you may be a mechanical engineer, that doesn't mean you may be the best person to guide the design for architectural landscape to mitigate irrigation problems.

So that's just my biggest concern.

That's all I'm trying to do.

May I respond?

Yeah, so these are good points, and it's it they're points that I've also asked myself.

Um, and so to address that, the standard of the city do not change.

So it this simply changes who holds the pin when drawing the plans.

Okay.

So again, the the standards of the city remain intact.

So they whoever's holding the pen and drawing these plans, uh, they still have to do the requirements of store of stormwater irrigation.

All that stays the same.

And so again, this this just changed who is holding the pen.

That makes sense.

Councilman Henderson.

Thank you.

Could you go back to the slide that I think to the revision uh this one and having competency?

That wouldn't be my question.

What determines that is that is who good question?

Mr.

Price.

So the way that that would work is for instance, you have architects who do site plans, architects do grading plans because they have competency, they have experience in those areas.

So if the registrant deems that they feel that they are competent and have that ability, that professionalism to be able to do it, then they can submit plans.

Those would then go to the same reviews at the land development office as they currently do, they get the same review whether it's been by an engineer, whether it's done by an architect or anybody else.

So the same review process takes place.

If individuals at the city level or anyone else sees that someone doesn't have a competency, they can complain to the state, they do an investigation.

But that's extremely rare.

So we are really simply allowing the process to take place, for instance, myself.

I've done over 600 landscape plans that have been approved by this city.

What carn is looking for, and to go through the process, and there's other professionals who know the same thing.

So we're just asking it to be put back the way that it was, which seemly worked for his 1996 when it rules were putting in.

Well, I I don't know, that just seems like um that puts a little bit of burden on the staff to determine what competent who is competent, who's not we can define that a little bit better so that it's not so subjective, subjective, I guess.

Yeah, I understand it.

Um the second thing is I would really love for Bill Gore to been here to weighed in on this because here's what happens a lot of times.

Um LDO winds up being the ones that sort of do a lot of the work from applicants that come down and and they're not sure what they're doing, and so they'll submit something, and then what it does it causes a lot of work for LDO to turn around and say, No, you you need to do XYZ.

And so I guess my concern is was the revision was was the revision a year ago because we were seeing a lot of that at LDO, and the answer to that is I don't know, but if Bill was here, he might be able to tell us.

Huh?

Yeah, Chris, I can speak to that.

Okay, yep.

May I, Madam Chair?

Uh I can say that when Karen and I and everyone else was involved in the three-year process to rewrite the zoning code.

Um this was a staff suggested, not an LDO staff.

This was planning staff, and the consultant suggested that we go to landscape architect.

Uh, at that time, we all agreed on that, and I said that if it caused a slowdown in housing production in Chattanooga, we would revisit it.

It has caused a slowdown in housing production, so we are revisiting it.

Okay, it's fine.

Um so I think part of the the competency language comes from the state, the state law here uh and it says a registrant shall provide timely verification of employment and/or experience earned by an applicant under the registrant supervision if there's reasonable assurance that the facts be verified and accurate.

So again, I I think the state is determining who is competent.

Can I go back to how well number one?

I don't know.

How do we know that that how did that cause by requiring a registered landscape architect?

Is there not enough registered landscape architects to do the work?

Yes, sir.

That's the end of the slow and everything.

Narrowing it down to just that one profession as opposed to the three that it had always been it bottlenecked, and there are more plans than there are landscape architects in town.

So it is bottlenecking all over town.

Council members.

Okay.

That was uh first of all, thank you, madam chair.

Uh that was gonna be my question is what caused the change in the the zone, what why was the wording changed to begin with?

I think you answered that question.

And then the second thing I was gonna say is well, why don't we do a trial period where it sounds like we've already was it an informal trial period, or was it as an actual monitored piloted trial period so that we yeah, for you or Karen, so that I mean, was it just something let's keep an eye on it, or do we need to um formally take the code as it is and formally track it um you know for a period of time or change it and track it for a period of time to or maybe you do both six months as is, track it six months with a with a change and see if that's really the cost to your point, Councilman Henderson is did we specifically track it?

So we've been tracking everything in the zoning.

Yeah, we've got a lot of tracking.

We would amend it at least once a quarter the first year than annually after that.

Karen, I think we've done it every month uh since the zoning code was put in.

And this is just one of the many, many, many things that we saw that needs to be tweaked.

Um, and we're very supportive of Councilman Harvey's amendment to it.

And we will continue monitoring the entire code in 38.

Councilman Clark.

Really quick, I want to go back to this competency things.

I I support this because I think it opens up more people being able to do this to help get development down through the pipeline.

And I think some would even argue that um an architect, and and maybe someone can verify this, the level of of extra competency courses that are taken beyond architect engineering is a little bit more advanced.

Is that not correct?

Or for to just for a licensed architect?

Are you asking people?

Yes, or anybody.

I don't know.

The rules, I mean, Mike Mike can tell you more about the PE, but I'm certain that the rules for becoming an architect are more stringent than becoming a landscape architect.

They are, but you also have to have each year you have at least 15 hours of professional development hours that you have to continue to do your training.

Okay.

So we're not going backwards in competency, and just Cody, so Councilman Harvey, so that I'm aware the state does provide language about what competency is because my issue with that it could open up a mess of people saying, Well, I'm competent, but we're like, well, no, you're not.

And so how what's is it open-ended, is an undefined or just the state, do us that favor in defining what competency is.

If not, I don't even know why you have to have that in there because you know you could just strick in and just be like this open-ended Chris, or yeah, I mean, I I think so.

So what we put in here is is or a registered professional engineer or architect license practice state, Tennessee.

I mean, I don't really have a problem taking up competency if that's well here if I might.

Sure.

So understand that a registered architect or an engineer is not gonna risk their license to practice that could lose their license.

That's their livelihood.

So we don't do that.

We're we're gonna make certain that we have that expertise to prepare those plans, otherwise you risk fines, suspension of license, livelihood, and the rest.

No one's gonna make that risk.

Um I councilman Burris would like to speak, but I haven't spoken yet, so I would like to make a couple points.

Um I I have found compelling some of what the landscape architects have said about the fact that in the time since we have put this change into place, we have become the first national park city in the North American continent.

Um I think if Scott Scott Martin were here, our previous parks director, I think he would probably have some interesting ideas for us to think about related to what it means to steward our landscape as a national park city.

And I don't know if it's necessarily within this um amendment, proposed amendment, or if it is revisiting our native plant phase in, which um that was something that we discussed.

Um, and and Chris and I talked about like how is that something we just turn around tomorrow and say we want all natives?

Is it something that we phase in over X number of years so nurseries can get ready?

Um but I will say that it seems to me that a landscape plan has multiple layers to it.

We have flooding, irrigation issues, but we also have um our our habitat, right?

And um not meaning any disrespect, Mike, but I wonder how many knockout roses you've put in your landscape plan.

Never, never a knockout residence.

We're talking about trees, we're not talking about troves.

Well, I think when landscape architects think about plans, they think about the entirety of a development.

Um and I know that we have many developments that have been put in that have the exact same kind of trees everywhere, which if Scott Martin were here, he'd be saying to us, let's think differently about that.

Let's think about the fact that we are one of the most biodiverse regions in the nation, if not the world, in terms of how many trees we have at our fingertips that natively appear here.

So I'm hesitant about this, council councilman Harvey, because in a way it feels like we were we're trying to head in a direction that perhaps would have allowed us to better steward um our um ecosystem, um, maybe in just a slightly more thoughtful way.

Um but I appreciate the practicality of the fact that not everything has to go through that process, and certainly it does add expense and it does add time.

We have to only go through a licensed landscape architect.

It makes me really want to revisit Chris with you where we go with real intentionality about phasing in native plant requirements over time and how we look at how that impacts our economy long term, right?

Because we can't just tomorrow say to Mike that we want to see 25 different trees in every development if the nurseries around us only sell six different kinds of trees in bulk, right?

Because he needs hundreds of trees.

Um I think that a landscape architect brings a different thought process to a div to a design that probably wants those trees to survive, that wants this to be something that is biodiverse and even potentially beautiful, um, as opposed to someone who is also involved in any number of other portions of the job that might be looking more at value engineering or just what's the quickest thing I can get off the spreadsheet that I already know is here.

Those are my concerns.

So we've got councilman burrs and then councilman Henderson.

Uh just a quick question about the process.

Um regardless of who prepares the plan, it still has to go through LDO.

That's right.

And there's somebody on the city's end that says yes, no, yes, no, yes, no.

Correct.

Okay.

That's it.

You're good.

Yeah.

Councilman Elliott.

Do we this maybe Chris or a Bill Gore question?

What is the capacity for LDO right now?

I know that has been a concern as well.

Even when I was at the city, and I had to go to I was working LDO for a while.

Capacity was a huge issue, even on that end.

So, like, do we have a capacity for I hate to say it like this, not to say that folks are not looking at stuff in depth, but you have an even more in-depth look at stuff.

Like what does that look like?

So the same person has been reviewing landscaping plans for over 20 years, and that has not changed despite any kind of capacity reverse.

Her name is Carmel Levitt, and she's she looks at all the landscaping plans and has for longer than I think any of us have been here.

Um we do have more intake review clerks who are managing land serving or not landest building permits and complex building permits when they come in for residential and commercial.

So we have increased the number of reviewers overall.

That would not necessarily be impacted by this, which no matter who develops it, it's going to carnal.

And she's going to do the same review no matter what.

Um we do have more intake review clerks uh who are managing land and serving president I mean sorry not land us with building permits and complex building permits when they come in uh for residential and commercial so we have increased the number of reviewers overall that would not necessarily be impacted by this which no matter who develops it it's going to Karna and she's gonna do the same review no matter what and if we give her an ordinance that says you've got to have negative plans or whatever she's gonna enforce it on everyone equally no matter what their title is okay thank you very much counseling harm do you have anything to add yeah again I I just want to reiterate that this I I to um share the beautification uh concerns throughout our our city I I believe me I'm I'm one of the first people who has championed you know more beautiful uh communities and and getting back to our native beauty of because we are the scenic city I mean we want to remain that uh and we are a national park city so those things are still remain important to me and that's why I feel that this this continues to um have the same requirements that they have to go through the same uh processes that anybody else does it's just a different person holding the pen and allowing a little bit more wiggle room uh for the process to speed up a little bit so again um and if you know I we want to the the the native plant ordinances and all that do not change this does not change that um so they they still have to go through the same hoops again it just changes the person holding the pen.

Okay well thank you councilwoman for bringing this to us would you like to move this into legislative committee?

Yes please okay um madam legislative committee chair can you um take a look at the calendar and let us know when we uh can do a legislative committee sure okay um we'll look for for that in right now if you'll just let me know the date okay all right do we have anything else we'd like to discuss oh uh my first looking at this do you have any objection to having competency in landscape uh preparation as determined by the land development office is required because that's normally who would be looking at these things I'm I'm good with that regard we can notice them sees them and the terms are at or gives you please prepared we can certainly for me that's right okay all right yes counseling just one thing uh just wanted to let everybody know the Northgate TIFF resolution that I mentioned a few weeks back a copy of that is in our folders today so it's on the agenda for January 6th but since we've got a break here coming up just wanted to get that language to everybody to review um and yeah just wanted to point that out thank you councilman councilman first um yes thank you madam chair uh Chris Anderson uh on our reward appointment on the agenda for underboard appointments uh I've got two terms expired that are expired that uh that both parties have agreed to be reappointed yes ma'am is that Nan and uh Nan and Linda that's right yeah yes and those are good to go whenever that'll be on January and then I'll set the term information awesome thank you so much for one so we're gonna take care of yes sir we'll do that again thank you so much everybody good all right see you at 3 30