Well it all depends on the other thing.

Sometimes we have a million questions.

That makes me feel like we brought that in for you.

No, that's okay.

You didn't come out.

That's fine.

I'm John.

Nice to know to you.

Okay, everybody, I'd like to call our um China City Council Strategic Planning to order.

Um can I get a motion to approve the minutes, please?

So move second.

All right.

Minutes are approved.

Um I'd like to welcome the American Water Company reached out to us because there is an initiative that they're required to take care of, which is understanding the type of pipe that uh that is the supply line, I believe, for homes.

Um, and so all of our constituents have been getting letters, and they wanted to make sure preemptively because of our schedule, they had to come a little bit after the letters went out, but um they wanted everybody to be able to ask questions so that we can then talk with our constituents about what is happening in line.

So we'll hand the floor over to you.

Very good.

Thank you.

Um I'm John Sparkman, I'm the director of engineering with Tennessee American Water.

I've been with the water company for 18 months.

A little bit about me.

Um prior to this role, I was with Cleveland Utilities as their manager of engineering for their water and wastewater divisions.

And then prior to that, I worked for two different consulting companies here in Chattanooga doing work for municipal clients and utility districts doing water and wastewater infrastructure.

I've done some city projects, been done projects at the landfill, done some city uh street projects, done some work out at Box and Bend.

So I've spent my career here in Southeast Tennessee and very familiar with the local the local market.

So I guess first let me preface all of this by saying there's not any problems with our water.

We have a new EPA mandate that we're having to navigate, and we're transitioning from kind of an internal records phase to a more externally focused phase dealing with our customers and your constituents, and we want you all to know what we're what we're doing and and kind of why why we're having to do what we're doing.

So I've got some of uh the local leadership of uh Tennessee American uh it takes a lot of people to support me, so uh so I had to bring them all with me.

So uh so if we've got any questions at the end of me and them uh keep you on the straight and narrow.

They got they gotta keep me on the straight and arrow, that's for sure.

So a little bit about the water company.

Um we uh we trace our routes back to 1886 here in uh here in Chattanooga.

We spend about 40 million dollars of capital investment annually and generate about two and a half million dollars in local taxes to to local governments.

Um we have our water treatment plant, our single water treatment plant is on the Tennessee River on Riverside Drive, and from there we have approximately 1,400 miles of transmission and distribution mains.

So the larger transmission means that's what's leaving the plant.

They go to various parts of our distribution system, the distribution mains that you might have in your in front of your house or along your street, those are like two or three or two or four six, eight-inch size size water.

And then from there, the service line, the service line is that portion of the the water distribution system from the distribution main to the house.

So those water service lines are typically three-quarters of an inch in size, sometimes they're an inch, but they're smaller diameter.

And these are the various materials that have been used through time.

So galvanized or plastic, copper, and then lead service lines.

So kind of depending on depending on the availability of the materials, the price, the serviceability.

There's we've used various different types of service line material through through uh through time.

The service line is divided up into two discrete parts, the company side and the customer side.

And that's located the different the boundary is located at the property line where the meter is.

So everything between the main and the meter is the company side, and everything between the meter and the house is the customer side.

So there's two different sides to two different sides to that single service line.

So a little bit about the lead and copper rule.

It was first promulgated in 1991, and it established some criteria about concentrations and testing methodologies and location.

Since that time, we have met all the criteria.

Some key dates, and they'll they'll get a little bit more important in the next slide.

But in 1988 was when the EPA and the state of Tennessee officially banned lead as a use of a service line material.

And then in the 70s, it's been our practice since early, I think 1973 or a little bit earlier.

It's been our practice.

If we were to find a lead service line out in the distribution system, we would replace it just as a course of just as a course of normal work.

In 2021, there was lead and copper rule revisions, and then 2024 there were improvements to those revisions.

Let me go back and say this is not uniquely an American water Tennessee American water issue.

This is all utilities in the United States.

This is this is an EPA federal mandate that we're navigating.

Again, all utilities are having to do this, is come up with an inventory to where we know the service line material is on our side and on the customer side.

That is on out that's on all utilities to know what's on our side and the customer side.

We're working on we're working on that inventory phase over the next couple of years, and we'll be pivoting to a replacement phase starting in 2027, 2028, and then we've got 10 years to be lead-free.

So that's kind of the broader time frames that we have.

So we sent notices last uh December.

I think we did that the December before.

We will be doing that going forward, and then there's a public-facing website that's live right now that shows what our service line material is for every address that we serve water to.

So when you go to that website, there's going to be three different criteria.

It's going to be lead, non-lead, or unknown.

Also on that website is an opportunity for customers to self-report.

That is that is a very that is a useful thing.

We can use that as a record.

If the customer self-reports, we verify that that's the case, then that's that's that's one less that we have to go look for.

So we are encouraging all of our customers to self-report.

During this inventory phase, on the utility side, this is what we have found.

Before 1923, we never we always saw galvanized.

We did not see anything mentioning a lead service line on our side until 1923.

So in the 20s, from 23 to 29, there was a use, we were using lead and galvanized.

In 29, we pivoted all through the 30s, it we were using copper.

Every service record that we have is using copper.

29 through the 30s, you said?

29 through 41, late 41.

So from late 41 to late 1944, World War II, we were using a lead and a lead alloy was was what we were using.

And then from 1944 forward, it's been copper.

So we've got two windows where our records indicate where lead when lead was being used.

Where lead was being used is kind of all over our distribution system.

It is it really is based on those year built, and people were building homes everywhere, wherever the wherever the edge of town was back then, that's where the homes were being that's where the homes were being built.

And so when you say you were using that for lines, this is specifically the American water service lines or the residential to the house line.

Great question.

So it is for our side from the meter to the street, from the meter to the main, that's right, to the street.

From the meter to the house, the only thing, the only record we have is that 1988 date.

So anything built after 1988, you inherently know was non-lead because that's after the lead ban.

Okay.

If there's plumbing codes, you know, sometimes plumbing codes had been adopted that banned the use of lead.

We're working through what those things are.

I think all communities are kind of looking through all of the records that we can, but that's that is something that can move that 1988 date forward.

So anything of those kinds of things that can help some numbers.

Go ahead.

So is it possible that we before 1988 that we have some homes who have lead, and then when you all decided to go from lead to copper, so when you switch over to copper, you didn't require the homes to match you on that.

Is that correct?

Good question.

Up until 1988.

Good question.

Traditionally, no utilities have ever responsibility ends at the water meter.

Everything from the water meter to the home is kind of on the building and building codes and not the the water, the water utilities, the same includes.

So, yes, it is possible that before 1988, that from the water main from Tennessee American, you have some that are not that are copper, and then some lines that could be lead up until 1988.

Like once they go through this line.

Right.

Could be they could be.

Okay.

Now it's we're getting ready to transition into and to doing some more field work.

So I fully expect those unknowns.

We have a lot of unknowns of our 90,000 customers, approximately 60 or 63,000 are unknown.

But that doesn't mean they're lead, that just means they're unknown.

They're unknown.

So I think that number is going to, as we're moving them from one bucket to the next, I think we're going to move them from unknowns to non-lead.

Okay.

But I've got to go.

That's the exercise that we're getting ready to undertake is driving those unknowns down on the customer side.

And go ahead.

Which which would be the cheapest, the lead or the copper?

Um well, lead's banned today, so we don't have to worry about that.

Well, before it was banned.

Before that, been cheaper.

You know, I don't know.

I think it goes to what's available, and you know, it would be it.

I've asked myself this question.

Well, why did we use what we used?

And I think is well, what gives what is the best value?

Is it inexpensive?

And then kind of balancing that with, well, how long do we expect it to last?

Is it serviceable?

Does it give me a long service life?

Do I pay a little bit more and it lasts a little bit longer?

So, you know, they were making those decisions through time, and so I'm not sure if you know.

I guess the value was there to use lead in the 20s because that's what they used, and then you know, the 40s vintage, that's just World War II.

So I think there was just material availability, you know, that's just what that's what society was doing during the wartime of 41 to 44.

Quick question.

Go ahead.

And maybe it's in this presentation, we may have jumped ahead of you, but what is your inventory process?

Like, how do you go in and evaluate these unknowns?

You said there was could potentially be are you getting to that?

That's that's that's that's the next slide.

It's all good.

So what we're doing now, and we will continue to be doing is this records review.

If there's anything new that we can uncover planting codes or kind of going through our going through our records, anything that we can find, that's what we're we're going to use.

And then the self-reporting.

Okay, that was going to be a question.

We want customers, and we would like for y'all to encourage your constituents to self-report to the extent that they can.

What would they be looking for?

That was going to be my question on self-reporting on that.

So what would they be looking for?

So to be able to self-report.

So there's we've got some videos on our website that can go through some step-by-step process.

This is plastic, this is copper.

What gets tricky is galvanized pipe because that's what's that's very common out in the system and maybe compared to lead.

So they kind of look the same.

I think one the lead you can scratch it, it will shine.

I think one is metal, one is magnetic, one is not magnetic.

So there's some we've got some step-by-step instructions on how one can tell, and you're really what you're looking at is what's coming through the crawl space or the basement.

That's the section that we're looking for.

Okay, is what is what that is coming through that crawl space.

But uh so a person that is trying to figure out where the water comes into their house and find that pipe, and it'll be above ground.

Yes.

It should be in the basement.

Is that a crawl space?

The pressure reducers coming from the major, and then you run a service line from there.

My neighborhoods in Lepton City, some of them don't have crawl spaces because they're just on like concrete block, they're not even on a slab, they're on the dirt.

Yeah, they're old.

My house, the it mine comes in the crawl space, and it's in the inconvenient spot.

It's in the front of the house, and you get access to crawl space.

And it'll still be somewhere in that house where that service line comes into the pressure reducer valve.

Into the pressure because you have to be able to replace that pressure reducer valve.

Is there like typically they would have if it's on a if it's on a slab, they would put that in the garage close to the water heater.

Close to the check, check around the water heater.

You should find a pressure reducer valve, and and whatever that line is that's come into the in-tape side is okay and home builder on council.

For real.

Thank you.

Look out voting him in.

Grand Chair.

So the records review that we're doing the self-reporting, we're encouraging self-reporting.

We'll probably start a canvassing phase to be in communities, and we'll go look ourselves.

You know, we we want to, you know, we're we're we need this is kind of where we're going to need y'all's help, is as we're canvassing or excavating some test holes, and if we were going to do test holes, that would be just on the customer side of the meter.

You know, it's it's it's it's causing a little excavation.

We want to look and put our eyes on that piece of material, and then we'll we'll be on our way.

So this is exactly what we're doing is transitioning from kind of this records phase to the canvassing and test holes as we get through this inventory phase, and then once we have this inventory phase, then we'll have some we'll we'll just kind of know we'll have more information.

But we've got uh we've got some work to do over the next 22 months or so, and um, and then so we'll be we'll be back again giving some updates uh between now and then for sure.

Gentlemen Hill, I've got a question.

I don't know why I'm you if you like you're the oracle on this, but um do you know if if there were city code that was adopted for our land development office prior to 1988, or maybe you all have done your research, Phil is shaking and said yes, that as a city that we outlawed that pipe.

Do you know, Phil?

There are specific building codes and plumbing codes that have been adopted back to uh I guess probably from the 30s and 40s on.

That we banned lead in our city, we would have specific requirements in those codes that would be suggested internationally, uh, that would be acceptable methods of plumbing.

So those would be there.

I'm not sure when the actual 1988 uh provision, if there's a federal law that banned it in 88, that would have been actually but the international codes that we would have adopted we've done and then we were allowed to do it until 1988, right?

So whatever was the cheapest of the code.

But they would have to they will have to have pulled the permit in order for you all to know that, right?

Yes.

Okay, so you know, like in my area, there's a lot of their building and putting things into effect, and nobody has pulled the permit.

I I had them to check on a couple last week, and that house is almost complete.

Wow.

And it had no permit.

Yeah, no permit at all.

That sometimes it goes off land development's radar.

I had a house on Tonal Boulevard where there was no permit.

Yeah.

You know, they don't know until they know until someone's that's right.

So we could expect it in the back.

Yeah, I just happened to be knocking the doors and somebody made it, brought it to my teacher.

They don't have, I said, Well, how do you know because it's not posted, then I called and they say, well, I have to want to reach out.

And what I learned from Phil Gore.

It is not one.

And what I learned from Bill Gore is that if they are building without a permit, that there's a way that they notify EPB, and they will not run power.

They won't.

You know, there's nothing has been inspected to even make sure power can go.

So apparently there's a mechanism within land development that catches those people that are building without permits.

But I would just be curious after 1988, because I think my principal concern is the schools.

You know, we've seen schools in different cities have lead issues.

Is there an initiative to where you all are starting early inventory with the schools first?

So a couple things as it relates to schools, and and bigger and bigger customers of ours.

So a lot of these materials are for residential service lines, three quarters inch and one inch.

If you have a large, let's say a school, a community center, or a business, that service line material could be a two-inch or four-inch line, and those are you know those aren't lead because they only made lead up to about a certain inch, a certain diameter.

So there's a size component that if it's bigger than that, then you know what it is.

You inherently have a high probability that our school systems are using a bigger pipe and it may or may not be lead.

And then we're testing the schools, and then the other thing that can come into play is some of the fixtures, some of the older fixtures, the the water fountain fixtures, the lead solder.

And so it's it may not be the service line, but there could be some other fixtures, the plumbing fixtures in there that could be a potential source of that as well.

But for schools built after 1988, you all will be sure to check them anyway.

You just you as a part of inventory process.

Yeah, for everything built after 1988, you just know because it was passed the well, I'm sorry, before like if you had excuse me, if we had an older school, i.e.

I'm trying to think what older schools we have in our inventory in the city, lots, lots.

But I will say the school system does do water testing and provides that information to parents.

So and then how those plumbing codes, how I think it what worked in the past is the let's just say the Southern Building Code said these are the acceptable service line materials, and where there's the Southern Building Code or International Building Code, and then you know, if whenever it said that, and then whenever communities adopt that, well then you know that would be the that would be the strategy of of moving that date back if we could.

So Chair Will, I have one last question and I'm done.

After people self-report or to do an inventory, is there any type of remediation fund that Tennessee American Water would offer residents, maybe in low-income areas who live in older homes to replace their lead pipes?

If you guys have already done the main line, but you still have one line that could be be could be potentially be lead.

Do you have any type of financial remedies to help those citizens?

Those are the kinds of things we're working through right now.

Okay.

We just don't know.

We're in this inventory phase, and it and once we get through this inventory phase, we can kind of make some better, more informed decisions on the well.

I hope that will be on your radar that I'm sure in this unknown period that there will be homes in low-income areas that would need that level of remediation, and hopefully you all are thinking proactively to offer some assistance towards that.

We're how if someone discovers that they have red pipe from the service line, how worried do they need to be our treatment process that we provide right now mitigates these types of concerns?

Okay.

So even though you know we have approximately 35 lead service lines according to our records.

Well, I'm thinking about their home service.

Right.

So our side or their side.

So you have 35.

3500.

3500 lead service lines that you're working on.

That's what our records say, yes.

But you don't know the home service on the home side.

So we're equal, I get that you guys are equally.

Well, wait, let's finish.

So you have you have if somebody finds out that either their Tennessee American Water Service line is led or their owner's responsibility service line is led, how worried should they be?

Right.

We regularly test.

They should not be worried.

We regularly test 50 homes every three years.

Okay.

So we regularly test those homes that have lead service lines.

Okay.

And those homes regularly meet the criteria.

They are we we know what those what the results are.

So people, this is not an emergency that then you have to get this ripped out immediately.

It is it is not an emergency.

Even if you have this line, it does not imply that you will have overly high levels of lead.

That's correct.

So it's not gonna cause you any health issues.

That's correct.

We we we regularly test, I think it's 50 lead service line homes at the tap in the in the kitchen.

In the kitchen, okay.

We regularly test at the homes in the kitchen, and those tests consistently are below any action level.

Great.

So here's the problem.

Usually they're not you know not in any danger or health risk.

Then what's gonna be the driver for them spending the money to get it replaced?

I mean, how do we argue you need to get it replaced whether it's not affecting my health at all?

And I'm not sure.

And I want to definitively say I don't even know if that's an accurate statement.

You know, it's I don't think there's a because when you say you you test and it's below the action level, that does not exclude that actually lead is in the water.

And so I you know, I wouldn't want us to say to the public that there's there is a health issue related to lead pipes, and so we strongly, even though it's not crisis level, we strongly advise that it is a health risk and that you should get that out of your house.

And the EPA wants to get all the I was like according to the law.

Well, I'm just taking the statement that was laid out on the table.

Right.

And I was very when they when he said that, I was like, ah, I work in public health.

I'm like lead pipes, it's not a crisis to where if I drink tap water, but I'm sure you have some tests that are conducive to the fact that there it might be over the action level that you probably have found lead in water but below the action level.

Is that correct?

Or yes, but let me I I think I'd like to get our water quality person to give you a better answer.

Absolutely.

And that's uh I appreciate the question.

I don't think she's here, even though I brought everybody.

Go ahead and bring them.

I was saying, but you didn't even introduce your friends, but so I'll uh thank you.

I'll uh but we'll we'll get you that information, but uh the you know it's I appreciate the question, and you know, EPA is trying to get the lead out.

We it's got kind of okay, might share that with you.

So this is the last slide.

Okay, so I again I wanted to just reiterate, you know, we're we're our water safe to drink, we we're meeting the criteria.

We're gonna need help from the city, we think with communications.

So as we're getting out into the community and uh and as we go from either neighborhood to neighborhood or district to district, as we're as we're getting our program built out during this inventory phase and even into the uh into the replacement phase.

Well, we're probably going to need y'all gonna get phone calls and we want y'all to know what's up.

And I think Daphne's going to share with y'all a toolkit that's got a little bit of the stuff.

I think you had the question how do you test?

We'll make sure that that's that that's a part of it.

And um, yeah, that's that's I guess just we want you to be informed with with what uh with what we're having to navigate.

Council, do we have any other questions?

Councilman Elliott.

Uh no questions.

I do want to appreciate you and Grant, Daphne, and Nicole.

See over to the corner, I see it first.

You guys were very helpful early on for me.

And I appreciate you guys doing your due diligence on this.

I know scheduling was not great.

But I appreciate y'all's patience and really leaning in.

So that's it.

Any other questions?

I have one.

Uming that there are um allowable levels of lead, um, but also acknowledging that some people would say any lead is too much lead.

Do you know are there are there filters that people could get for their house to further reduce lead in their water if that was a concern for them?

Yes.

Okay.

Great.

We'll uh we can we I think it's on our FAQ.

I think we've got the top of the dedicated uh because that would be much less expensive than replacing your water line potentially.

That's an interim measure.

I love it.

That's certainly spoken like an engineer.

Yeah, I think it's measure.

He would like all of those are if we had a water line magic wand.

All right, well, council, it looks like it looks like everybody's questions.

I will let me let me ask one more question.

Who is responsible for making sure the homeowner gets their line replaced?

Is it the homeowner or just America?

I don't think they're requiring it.

It's the homeowner, which is why we have to get insurance on our lines when something happens on our side.

Well, I mean, you so y'all are not necessarily an enforcement mechanism on that.

That that's we're we're what I'm hearing.

To educate, yeah.

We're responsible for knowing the service line material, and we're responsible for having the customer be able to be informed of what our side and their side is.

Okay, but the question that you're asking is is kind of it is a big question, not just for us, but for a lot of utilities to kind of what exactly is under the control of the utility.

So those are those are big questions, and I don't have good answers to that, but I know this inventory phase that utilities have been tasked with identifying our side and their side, and then those kinds of questions are the obvious next questions.

You know, it it makes sense that if we're going if you're inventoring by law between 2024 and 2027, and then everybody turns in all their data to the EPA over time, then at the federal level, then they would know how how many things are impacted and decide at the federal level what is a reasonable requirement and why how much money is there to help make that change if if deemed a reasonable requirement.

Do you have to get written permission from the homeowner to do a little test?

Well, we feel like we don't.

Our tariff allows us to do that inspection.

Just we're we're going to be just inside the property line, just inside the property line.

Okay.

And we'll put it put it back like we found it.

We feel like see the lawyer's face behind you.

I hope that that's we certainly would do that line.

Unless you got an easement, you probably ought to do that.

Somebody's property, they don't have attitude and you didn't add.

Yeah, we we won't do it without their inform.

Correct.

But but the the easement or temporary work agreement.

We'll let our attorneys provide us some guidance on that.

Some best that that's uh but but yeah, we're conceptually we would be just downstream of the uh water meter and uh a little a little excavation.

Well, I have complete faith that you all would do the right thing.

Tennessee Americans come out good two feet from those meters.

Yeah, those are messing.

It it's certainly a thing, and we would not go in there without their blessing, understanding.

We don't want their we certainly don't want to go out there and surprise anybody for sure.

That would be helpful for us.

Yes, yes, it would be because we get the phone call.

Yeah, and I did misspeak.

So that's uh we would get their permission, whether that's an easement or a work agreement to be determined, but but yeah, we would not just go out there and even if we have the the right to inspect it, we're not gonna do that without informing them that we're in the neighborhood and this is kind of what we're doing.

Praise the Lord Okay, well, thank you very much for for coming and making us aware of this.

Um we'll do what we can.

Thank you.

Okay, um, council.

We that is the that was the new discussion item on our um agenda upcoming strategic cleaning.

I wanted to thank I just granted it's NSC mayor.

One to thank every for everybody for your time and offer we'll come back.

I mean we're we we look at this as as kind of a long term proposition.

We're happy to share and as we learn, pass that on.

So we we don't want to wear out our welcome.

And I don't know the frequency you'd like to see us, but we were more than happy to come back.

Thanks all so much.

Since this is a multi-year uh inventory, perhaps you could put a note on her calendar check in with us in a year.

Oh, we'll be here before.

Give us a note.

We'll give you another.

I don't know if I want you to come back.

No, we'll be good.

How about we come back with good news?

If not, we'll wait.

No, don't wait on bad news.

No, we'll we'll uh we'll be in touch.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

All right, I think so.

I don't know.

You tell no, you tell um in the corner with the gray on the cole.

Yeah, you tell she's shutting it down.

Oh, I know.

Oh, yes.

Sure for sure.

Okay, so um upcoming strategic planning.

We are gonna have the Family Justice Center here on the third.

Um thank you, Councilman Burst, for bringing that to us.

I believe that they are working through a new strategic plan.

Um so they want to get our input on that.

Um we still have some board appointments that are open, but other than that, is there anything that anybody wants to get on the strategic planning agenda or um anything you want to talk about before we adjourn this afternoon?

One thing from the lawyer.

One thing from our lawyer.

We won't have a attorney client.

Uh no one little attorney client today.

Little it was interesting.

Why don't we do it right now?

Because we're streaming.

Well, here we go.

Cut the stream off and let's do it now.

Your attorney is clearly aware that his 1956 house that he owned had um, I guess uh the a type of uh steel pipe going through there, not stainless steel, but uh galvanized pipe because my next door neighbor asked me when I had installed my irrigation system, and I told him I did not have an irrigation system in my house.

So you do I could not figure out where that water was coming from, and so we ended up having to dig up all of our pipe in the front to replace it at that point in time.

It's interesting that it's at my house.

So any anytime you have a leak, that's the way that Tennessee American gets you in that regard.

Hey, fine because your bill starts going up and up and up here because that leak is occurring.

And uh same difference with the pressure reducing valves that you were talking about on that end of it here.

If your valves are not reduced to the proper uh level of flow, uh then you run the risk of having to replace your uh dishwasher or your washing machine or things like that in the house.

So one good way to tell is if someone tells you you have a new sprinkler system.

If you are watering your neighborhood, you might want to check your supply line.

Thank you very much, Bill.

Okay, we are adjourned.

I'll see everybody at the do we want to do the uh attorney client.

Do we need to announce that to the public before we have an attorney?

Probably should.

Yeah, I think so.

It won't take long.

It'll work.

We're just following the law.

We're just following the law.

I want to make sure.