Test one two testing.

Oh, I don't know.

And we'll be on the Welcome everyone to our uh work session, June 16, 2026, Mr.

Manager.

Two items this evening, one on the budget and one on materials used uh for public works projects in South Dolphic, and I'll turn it right over to Jonathan Hobbs, our budget director.

All right, thank you, Chris.

Uh good evening, Mayor West, Vice Mayor Ritter, members of City Council.

I'm here this afternoon to present the final amendments and technical corrections for the budget that was adopted by city council on May the twelfth.

So, gonna go quickly through the agenda.

We're gonna talk first about why do we even need uh to perform and request these uh post-adoption amendments.

We call these final amendments, but this year there is a major caveat to the word final, so talk a little bit about that.

Then we're gonna go through the final amendments for the operating budget and the capital improvement program, then we'll switch over to technical corrections for the operating budget and capital improvement program, and then we'll talk a little bit about the timeline, next steps, and uh any closing thoughts.

So, why do we need to come to council and request and recommend final amendments and technical corrections to a budget that was recently adopted?

This is really mostly driven by timing and also the pace of the process.

So I want to get a little more in depth on the timing piece.

So, this graphic here shows you basically the last five months of any given fiscal year.

So there comes a point in the budget process when we're developing the city manager's proposed budget that we really have to have a hard stop in terms of making changes.

Why do we have to have that hard stop?

Well, the money has to stop moving, we have to be able to balance funds, uh, we have to be able to draft and prepare the documents so that we can ultimately bring them to city council.

Uh, but life continues.

Uh things continue to happen in the city.

Uh, we continue to receive grant awards.

Uh, the city manager continues to exercise his authority granted by city council in the budget ordinance.

So, those are the types of things that we have to catch up.

The other thing that we make every effort to do is from the time that the city manager proposes the budget until the time that city council adopts on May twelfth, we really believe that those changes should be council driven.

And instead, this is where we're coming back, and these are staff requested and recommended changes as opposed to those council requested changes to the budget that you see uh when we come on May the twelfth and and amend the city manager's proposed budget, and it's ultimately adopted by city council.

So, talk a little bit about what the difference is.

We categorize them in two groups.

So you may be asking what's the difference between a final amendment and a technical correction.

For both of these, or excuse me, for this one in particular, these are items that would have been included in the city manager's proposed budget, but for the timing of the item.

So for example, and you'll see several of these, we received new information on grant awards.

So, had we known that at the time the manager's budget was proposed, we would have included that information in the manager's budget.

Uh, we need to add additional appropriations to the project prior to the beginning of the fiscal year.

So that's a type of item that would be in final amendments.

Also revised estimates, legislative changes that occur, and then any requests that we do receive from city council subsequent to the adoption are included in final amendments.

These amendments may increase the total budget and may also increase the position complement included in the budget.

And if we did not bring these as part of this package, these items would need to be requested on a future city council agenda.

So on the technical correction side, I mentioned this a moment ago.

A lot of this is carrying forward some of those administrative approvals that were made after the budget was proposed.

So the manager is granted authority by council to do things like reclassify positions, move positions from one program to another, to take a full-time position and break it down into part-time positions, or go the other direction and put together part-time positions and make those full-time positions.

So those are the types of things that we are talking about when we're talking about those administrative changes.

We also identify when we begin to load the budget into the financial system after the May 12th adoption.

We also recognize that sometimes things aren't exactly how we had intended.

So there may be an account that is incorrect, a program that is incorrect.

So this is an opportunity for us to come back and make those corrections prior to the beginning of the fiscal year.

Typically, these changes don't uh increase the total budget or the position complement.

It's really swapping similar amounts or the same amount between, like I said, those programs or those accounts.

But again, these items would need to be placed on a future council agenda if they were not brought as part of this package.

I mentioned the caveat to the final, and this is kind of a big one.

We don't have a state budget adopted yet, unless something happened in the last hour.

So normally this package of technical corrections and amendments would include four agenda items.

This year it only includes three at this point, and the one that is omitted is the schools.

The school's budget is still based on the superintendent's budget, which was adopted by the school board back in February, I believe.

And then once the state budget is finalized, the school board will need to go back and make some final amendments, and I'm gonna touch on that a little more at the very end in terms of the timeline.

But in addition to the schools, there could and will likely be impacts on some city departments, human services, CIBH, public works, and possibly other city departments impacted by the final adopted state budget.

All right, so moving into final amendments to the city operating budget, and this presentation can be a little in the weeds, so I'm gonna do my very best to stay at the top of the weeds, but if you want me to get down into the roots, please just let me know, and and we can certainly discuss any of these in a little more depth if council would like.

So the first several are the appropriation of additional grant funds.

This is for home and CDBG.

The proposed budget and the adopted budget included preliminary estimates for these two grants.

We have received the final numbers, and this amendment is simply to update those grants and appropriate that additional funding that was granted to the city, and this particular amendment will in fact increase the total operating budget.

But it is exclusively funded by external sources.

But we've included them together.

They're both for the police department.

Again, these are recent grant awards.

They were recently awarded $2,500 for the Virginia Rules Camp grant program, as well as just over $12,000 for the Burn Jag grant.

So again, this is going to increase the total budget by just over $15,000, but they are both again exclusively funded by external sources.

In CIBH, we also received recent notification that there's some restricted state funding that they have granted to CIBH.

It's about $292,000.

Again, this is for this is for the Step Virginia initiative, and this does increase the total budget.

However, again, it is exclusive exclusively funded by external sources.

This is an item that comes most years.

I think we've had this particular item every year that I've been the budget director.

And this is a supplemental appropriation in CTS for a principal supplemental principal payment.

Based on the bond covenants for CTS, any year that their revenue exceeds their expenditures, they must take that excess revenue and make a supplemental principal payment.

When they estimated this amount for the proposed budget and the adopted budget for May 12th, now that we've had additional months of the fiscal year play out, they need to revise that number by $2 million.

So this is going to increase their budget by $2 million, and it is backed by fund balance from the enterprise fund.

It has been moved to August.

So that is transitioning from fiscal year 26 to fiscal year 27.

So now that that needs to be funded in the future fiscal year, the general registrar has requested $340,000 for the funding of that election.

And this we are recommending that we use $340,000 from the reserve for contingencies and the general fund to fund this particular amendment.

And since we have a complete offset, this will not increase the total budget.

One of which is from the remaining balance of the legislative impact reserve.

That is the accurate number, and now you're going to see as we go through some of this amendments, we will draw down and exhaust that legislative impact reserve.

So this is the first use of that in this particular amendment.

Additional support for the Fine Arts Commission.

Again, this is something that was requested by City Council.

And again, we are offsetting this expenditure by a reduction in the legislative impact reserve.

So again, no increase in the total budget.

So in if there is misdemeanor or certain categories of misdemeanor, there used to be a set amount that we would have to pay for court appointed counsel.

All of those amounts were raised and increased.

So the General District Court needs an additional $65,000 to fund this.

You could put this in the boat of the unfunded mandate, if you will.

So again, we are going to offset that expense by using $65,000 of that legislative impact reserve.

An increase in the position complement and funding for the sheriff's inmate workforce.

After some review, we determined that there were not enough hours programmed in terms of FTE authority for the sheriff's workforce program based on the current workload.

So they requested that we add just under half of a position to their or half of an FTE to their position complement.

Those hours are going to be spread over three part-time positions.

And again, we are recommending that we have an offset for this cost from the legislative impact reserve, and this amendment will increase the sheriff's position complement by just under half of a position.

We are also recommending a consolidation of the programmatic budget for the crisis intervention team.

Previously, this budget for this program was kind of in three separate departments.

So we are recommending that this program be consolidated into one program within CIBH.

So this amendment is an appropriation of $675,000, which will be funded by a small increase in net state revenue as well as $629,000 of CIBH fund balance.

This funds overtime costs for sheriff's deputies and police officers that work within this program.

However, that funding will now come directly to the city.

So there was also funding in the police department of $43,800.

We are not recommending that that funding be reduced from the police department's budget because they did not have a individual line item for this budget.

So we are reallocating that, and you could view that as funding that increase in their complement and the inmate workforce to help offset that.

So now we've consolidated all the expenses and revenues for that program in one program, and that really helps us with budgetary analysis.

You know, is there a supplanting implications when funding and revenue and expenses are spread in different departments, different programs.

Sometimes it makes that analysis more difficult.

So by putting it all in one place, it's going to be advantageous to us.

And this again increases the total budget by $675,000, but it's funded by state revenue as well as CIBH fund balance.

We recently received the documentation that allowed us to determine how much of this our local match or local contribution would be required in fiscal year 27 versus the portion required for the current fiscal year for fiscal year 27.

It's just over $86,000.

So we are recommending to use the remaining balance of the legislative impact reserve.

So that reserve is now exhausted, and then the remaining amount we are recommending to use the general reserve for contingencies in the general fund.

And as there are two direct offsets, this will not increase the total budget.

This means that City Council will begin receiving a quarterly report of all administratively approved transfers that are authorized or the authority is delegated to the city manager in the budget ordinance, but council will now receive a quarterly report outlining those transfers.

Moving on to the CIP.

This is a request from public utilities for some additional funding for a project that was recently bid by the department.

The project needs an additional $500,000 based on the bids that were received.

So in order to enter into the contract and commence the work on this particular project, public utilities is requesting an additional $500,000 be appropriated, and this would be funded by the Water and Sewer Enterprise Fund.

Similar story in public works, there is a project in public works that was recently bid.

Again, there is a need for additional funding based on the bids that were received.

So in order to award the contract and commence the work, an additional $400,000 is needed.

And again, this would be funded by the enterprise fund by the stormwater fund, but it does increase the total capital budget by $400,000.

We also received an award from the state for $600,000, and we are requesting the establishment of a new project and the appropriation of funds to that project.

This project would be in the transportation section and it's for traffic signal timing and improvements.

It is exclusively funded by VDOT reimbursements, and it spread over the first two years of the capital program.

Reappropriation of lapsing funds.

So from time to time, we do have projects that for a number of different reasons do not have financial activity for a certain appropriation for 36 months.

So as part of the budget development process, we talk to those departments and ask them the question, you know, are you do you intend to expend these funds?

Do you still need these funds for this particular project?

So when they tell us no, we redirect those funds to other places.

But when they say yes, we bring that back to city council for reappropriation.

So we have two projects that are in that situation.

The first is in the stormwater section, it's Forest Lake Stormwater Outfall Improvements, and it's $50,000 that is lapsing that will lapse on June 30th.

So Public Works has requested those funds be reappropriated.

Since these funds are in the stormwater enterprise fund, if council chose not to reappropriate them, they could not be redirected to the general government.

They would have to remain within the stormwater fund.

And then the second project is the regional broadband ring.

This is $500,000.

So we really don't have a whole lot of control over when the funds are expended.

So we've talked to information technology and they've talked to the South Side Network Authority, and the indication is that we will need to expend some of these funds in fiscal year 27.

So they have an imminent need for these funds, so we are requesting City Council reappropriate this amount to this project.

And as these are reappropriations, there is no increase in the CIP for this particular amendment.

Back in 2011, per property was purchased by the city out of the public works public utilities relocation project.

At the time, I think that they were trying to determine a site and found a site that they believed to be suitable and they purchased the site.

However, upon further review, that site was no longer determined to be the best site for that particular project, and instead, that is now the site of the joint fleet facility for city and schools.

So now that that project has been completed, the joint fleet facility project, it does have remaining appropriations in the project.

So Public Works is requesting a million dollars of available appropriations be transferred from the fleet project back to the project that initially funded that land acquisition.

Modification of a funding source in the capital improvement program.

Public Works was recently notified that there was additional VDOT reimbursement funding available for this project at number 10 lane for the bridge replacements and repairs.

It's an additional 121,000.

So we are recommending to modify that amount of the funding, reduce general government funds, and bring those back to the high priority one-time account for reallocation in the CIP and instead use those VDOT funds for this particular project.

A rescision of an appropriation.

So this is a deappropriation several years ago.

We came to City Council and requested the appropriation of $475,000.

This appropriation was related to the airport authority and a lawsuit that they were involved in for easement acquisition.

That has occurred.

So there was really no city expenditure that occurred for this.

So therefore, this appropriation is no longer needed, and we are requesting deappropriation of this $475,000.

Parks Recon Tourism has requested to have a some funding that was programmed in year two of the CIP brought forward to year one.

So Battlefield Park South Waterways Enhancement was a project, new project in fiscal year 27.

Initially, Parks Recon Tourism requested $500,000 in year one, $3.5 million in year two, and City Council approved the project as requested.

However, after some conversations with stakeholders and input from those stakeholders, Parks Recon Tourism is coming back and requesting that the three and a half million dollars programmed in year two be advanced to year one of the project.

So we are requesting and recommending that change, and again, since we're simply moving forward program funding, this does not change the total CIP.

Excuse me, similar provision in the CIP ordinance.

So again, this replicates that same language, and again, we would provide a quarterly report of those administratively approved transfers within the CIP.

Moving to technical corrections within the operating budget.

I mentioned earlier pace of the process.

So here's a perfect example.

So City Council requested in April during the work sessions funding for a new summer youth employment program, and on May the 12th, that program was adopted by City Council as part of the budget.

Then when we started to move into the implementation phase to prepare to operate this project starting in July, we had initially included all of the positions that part-time positions, as well as funding for this program in Parks Reckon Tourism because we believed initially that that's where all of the individuals would be working.

However, when we began implementation and HR put out a call for departments that would like to have these youth work for them over the summer, numerous departments responded and said yes, we would like to have youth from this program work within our department.

So what we are recommending is that we move this funding and these positions out of Parks Rec and Tourism, move them to human resources because this program is very similar to the city's internship program, which is managed and administered by human resources.

So we're going to or we're recommending to replicate that with this program and again move those funds and those positions to human resources.

This is a very small technical correction of $1,200 within Central Fleet.

We allocated revenue for fleet maintenance when we should have allocated the revenue for fuel.

So we are recommending an amendment to fix that.

This is another one of those as the year continues to go, things continue to happen, and we need to bring the budget up to date.

So when we continue as the year closes to acquire net new assets, vehicles, apparatus, equipment.

So as we acquire net new items, we also need to grow the fuel budget as well as the maintenance budget for central fleet because now the fleet has grown larger.

So as that occurs, the departments that are acquiring the assets need to identify within their general expense bucket amounts that are to be transferred into their internal services to fund those maintenance costs as well as those fuel costs.

So what this amendment is doing is bringing those transfers from those general expenses into the internal service charges so that in FY27 there is adequate funding for fuel and vehicle maintenance and it's in the right accounts.

Now this with this item because it involves an internal service fund, it will increase the gross budget.

However, the net budget will not change as a result of this amendment.

And then sometimes in the budget department, we actually just we make a mistake.

So I this would be that particular category.

So we allocated funding to the wrong program, which resulted in two programs being unbalanced.

So in order to correct that imbalance in those two programs, this amendment simply requests that the funding be moved to the correct program, does not change the purpose for which the funds were appropriated, does not change the amount of the budget, it is simply just correcting the program in which the funds are appropriated.

This is an item that will have a companion on the CIP side of the technical corrections.

Is to increase funding in the operating budget for parks rec and tourism.

The Parks Rec and Tourism CIP has a project that is programmed to receive 250,000 annually.

It is for the renovation and refurbishment of the conference center.

However, after reviewing expenditures and looking at some of the items that were expended out of the capital project, working with finance, parks rec and tourism, the budget department, we all determined that best practice was to move some of those expenses to the operating budget.

So what this is doing is it's reducing that capital project by $50,000, increasing the operating budget by $50,000.

So you while you do see the increase on the operating budget side, you have a corresponding decrease in the CIP.

And this funding is dedicated to the conference center.

So again, this does increase the operating budget, decreases the CIP.

Within human services, we had three positions that were allocated to the incorrect program.

This amendment will simply allow us to reallocate those positions as well as the funding associated with them to the correct program prior to the beginning of the fiscal year.

Again, another fuel and fleet maintenance amendment.

This one is for the fire department.

When we received the allocations this year, several of the apparatus and vehicles in the fire department were allocated to a program that is no longer in use.

So the budget included funds in that program again no longer in use.

So this amendment simply moves those appropriations to the program that those apparatus and vehicles are assigned to.

The alignment of programmatic revenues within CIBH.

Historically, CIBH has included all of their revenue, at least the budget for all of their revenue in one program.

This is not best practice, and sometimes it makes it again difficult to do budget analysis.

So what we are recommending is that we reallocate the revenue from that individual program to the programs that are actually utilizing that revenue to offset expenditures.

Again, this is certainly going to help us with budgetary analysis and will also help us to identify if there is any loss in state or federal or external funding so that we can be aware if there's any supplanting that's occurring.

Sometimes when it's included in one program, we can't determine that.

So this is going to allow us to do that.

And then a request to reallocate funding in positions.

Again, this is within CIT.

There were some positions that were within the grant fund and after review again by CIBH, the budget department and finance department.

We all agreed that these positions and this funding was more appropriate for their operating fund as opposed to the grant fund.

So this amendment simply moves the funding and the positions from the grant fund to the operating fund.

And finally, technical corrections in the CIP.

This is the other side of the item for the conference center that I mentioned a moment ago.

Again, just moving that revenue and those appropriations to the operating budget, decreasing the CIP by $50,000.

Modification of funding source, and I hope I meant to ask somebody.

I think I'm going to get this wise lane.

Oh, I sure hope I got that right.

Okay.

So we had program proffers for this project.

This project is within the Deep Creek traffic shed, and typically the way that proffers work is as long as you use them within the traffic shed that they are an allowable use within that traffic shed.

However, these particular proffers were more specific than just the traffic shed.

So what we are doing in this amendment is we are reducing the proffer revenue out of the project and replacing it with fund balance from the capital projects fund.

Again, a direct offset, so there's no increase in the CIP.

So then we had to go and find a project that we could utilize those proffers in that it was an allowable use.

So we did find one, the Deep Creek Bridge Replacement Project.

So we were very diligent this year and using proffers to make sure we are getting those expended and we don't have to worry about any expiration.

So I the one thing I want to make sure is very clear on this one is for this particular project, it does not change anything other than that one funding source, and again, it allows us to use those proffers as this is an eligible project.

A consolidation of programmatic funding within public utilities several years ago, we consolidated a number of projects that were standalone but all for the same purpose.

They were for capital maintenance at two of the water treatment plants.

However, at that time, some of the projects were not included in the consolidation.

They were individual standalone projects, but for capital maintenance at those facilities.

So this amendment is requesting to consolidate those final projects and those final appropriations.

Does not change the purpose for which the funds were appropriated and does not change the total budget.

The restoration of appropriations, as I mentioned earlier, that charter provision, and I mentioned to you that we reach out to part to departments.

So these are departments that indicated to us that they did not believe they were going to have expenditures prior to June 30th and requested reappropriation, which we did.

However, there has been recent financial activity which stops the clock, and they are no longer set to lapse on June 30th.

So there has been financial activity, so therefore we need to decrease the year one reappropriation and restore those funds to prior years.

So that's what this amendment does.

And again, it does not increase the total budget, capital budget, and it does not change the purpose for which the funds were appropriated by city council.

Another modification of a funding source, this is for the Bainbridge Freeman Avenue Road Elevation Preliminary Engineering Study Project.

There was a local match requirement for this project.

We initially utilized high priority one-time account funding.

However, this project is within the South Norfolk TIFF, and we do have available fund balance in the TIFF fund.

So we are recommending to bring the funding back to the general government and instead use the TIFF funds that general government funding can be reallocated or used in a future capital project.

Another funding source modification, and this one is basically we had two separate funds where we were utilizing fund balance for this project.

We misaligned the funds with the amounts.

So in one of the funds, we overstated the amount of fund balance to be used.

This realigns that to the appropriate amounts again, does not change the total amount of the budget, does not change the purpose for which the funds were appropriated, simply reconciles the fund and the amount.

Alright, so that's a lot, I know, and I tried to go through those quickly.

So hopefully that was helpful.

So next steps in the process, the state budget, like I mentioned earlier.

We are anticipating, or at least this is what I was told a week or two ago by Mr.

Westcott, they're trying to get the state budget adopted by June 20th.

However, that does not lead to an instantaneous result in terms of information flowing to us from the state.

So the first thing that will need to occur at the state level is the state agencies will have to look at what was ultimately adopted by the state legislature and determine the impacts on various programs, funding levels, and it's going to take them some time to do that analysis.

Then they will send that information to the city as well as the schools.

Once the city and schools receive that information, it's going to take time for city and school staff to then look at that information and determine the impact financially on various programs and services.

On the school side, then the schools will need to prepare, school staff will need to prepare amendments to go to the school board for consideration and ultimate adoption, and then those amendments will come over to the city council and will ultimately need to be appropriated by city council to the schools.

On the city side, we are going to ask that the departments submit those changes to the budget department so that we can coordinate those changes and prepare uh agenda items to bring to council uh comprehensively uh so we're not doing it in a piecemeal approach.

Uh so kind of already covered some of this, and again, uh we're gonna prepare those agenda items and bring those to you at the appropriate time.

I'm concerned that we could this could linger into August.

Uh this might be the longest budget process of my career.

So I hope don't not to not replicate that ever again.

Uh, but these things do happen.

In fact, I'm concerned we're gonna be starting the 28 process before we end the 27 process.

Uh but it is what it is as they say.

So with that, uh I'll turn it back over to the city manager for any closing thoughts, and I'll be available for any questions.

I would just like to know uh what the project is, 3.5 million for the uh battlefield park southwaterways enhancement.

So I certainly don't want to speak for the parks and rec director who could do a much better job of explaining this than I can, but these are improvements right at the Great Bridge Bridge.

Okay, Brian actually I'm gonna phone a friend because Brian can possibly definitely do a better job of explaining these improvements than I can.

Yes, sir.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, members of council.

So um the South Side uh the South uh battlefield um park project would include a new waterfront uh adaptive for use of the 1950s era uh fire station as a visitor center for folks uh commuting on the um in the canal in the intercoastal waterway uh would include um a boathouse for rowing and non-motorized watercraft use and to support the local uh rowing teams and pedestrian connectivity throughout, but primarily adaptive reuse of the uh former fire station and uh park improvements to support the market that goes on there now from June through November, as well as uh visitors commuting on the intracoastal waterway.

Very good, thank you.

Any other questions?

Uh, I have a few, um, but I know our time is really limited, so I I want to start by asking I I know that Mr.

Westcott's busy.

I hope he isn't having a heat stroke to think that the budget will be done June 20th, doesn't sound too realistic based on what we're hearing, but in the event that a budget agreement is not reached.

What do we know what core services are that the state will be funding?

Has have those been identified or are people just guessing?

Uh I can only answer from my perspective and what I've heard.

I have not heard anything about I I think your question is what core services would they be funding if they don't reach an agreement?

Well, what has been publicized is should they not reach an agreement, core services will be funded, but there's not a definition.

Could we make an inquiry maybe the state finance?

Yes, but that is correct.

So the indications we have is that they might adopt what's called a skinny budget where they would identify the core service and sort of like a continuing resolution to keep those services go, but I'm not sure we have a clear understanding of what would be considered core services under a skinny budget, and so I know that we and other jurisdictions are trying to track that down, but we'll make sure to get that information to council.

Okay, I think it would be helpful for all of our folks to know that.

And you know, when we get the capital improvement budget, it's a couple inches thick.

So when you prepare your budget your item for next week's agenda, if you could just even reference the page of the capital improvement budget that the um project is included on.

Then the members of council will have a very quick way to look that up.

Um, and then I'd like a couple of outcome feedbacks.

The sheriff's inmate crews.

If we're increasing the supervision of those, can we get a report back on how many we have now and what they're actually doing?

Um I'll talk to Miss Lindley about this.

I'm a little concerned about the use of the propers.

Um to say they're restricted.

Most of the time profits are offered for specific improvements that would therefore restrict them.

This isn't a general free-for-all.

So, you know, I want to make sure that we're I not that I question Mr.

Sorry at all, but I this started even with the parks and recreation department with the um park fees.

Vice Mayor Ritter, this did it it did go through legal review through uh Miss Lindley's office.

Uh so they determined that this was a um project that it could be used on.

But we we will follow up with the rationale.

Right.

Well, I understand that, but I also understand the way the General Assembly works that if somebody complains about this about the movement of proper money from one source to another, we could lose the ability to have proper, we've lost almost everything.

So the General Assembly can take that away with one swipe of the pen.

And also like some information on how you do the position reallocations, um, what the process is and you know, places where you've used it where it's been a very positive outcome.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Ritter.

Any other quick questions?

We do have another topic we need to go through.

Mr.

Hobbs, thank you so much.

You did an outstanding job.

We appreciate you.

Next up is a topic we've talked about a few times.

It's um it's capital improvement projects in South Norfolk, and uh it concerns uh what we call the lake for lake replacement policy.

So in the South Norfolk Historic District, um, a lot of um a lot of uh guidelines to that have really actually worked if you if you go through South Norfolk, really tremendous improvements, and the city has really invested a lot um in South Norfolk and Capital Infrastructure and others.

But this is sort of an area where there's people on both sides of the issue, and Councilmember Whitaker in particular has asked us to take a look at that like for like replacement policy, particularly as it applies to streets.

So I'll turn it over to public director um public works director Sorry to um take us through a um some information on that.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Price.

Um also uh joined tonight uh by uh Jake Lewis, he's our engineering manager.

Um good evening uh mayor and vice mayor members of council.

We appreciate the opportunity to discuss street treatments in the South Norfolk Historic District with you this afternoon, and specifically the use of concrete versus asphalt for roadway surfaces.

Um as you can imagine, roadway surface conditions represent a significant portion of the public work service request uh that we receive.

Uh we received over 2,500 such requests citywide, so not just in South Norfolk, but citywide last year.

And the good news is this is a service that is funded annually, and we spend roughly 15 million dollars on roadway maintenance.

Uh now the overwhelming majority of our roadways are constructed with asphalt.

Anything new, uh, within the last you know, you know, 10 20 years or so is is constructed with asphalt.

Uh South North being an older part of the city has a higher concentration of concrete roads in other parts of the city.

Uh so since I'm sorry, there we go.

So since 2020 or so, the staff policy has been to replace existing uh road surfaces in con, meaning uh an asphalt uh road uh surface is repaired with asphalt or replaced with asphalt, uh concrete uh surface would be repaired or replaced uh with concrete.

So the case for concrete, you know, the the advocates for full concrete restoration site historic preservation is the primary reason uh for requesting uh concrete roadways, but we have confirmed that the existence of concrete roadways was not a contributing factor in the historic designation of that area, and it's also not governed by historic preservation guidelines.

So the biggest factor in looking at options, you know, much like with everything we do is cost.

And in this case, concrete can be as much as four times more expensive to use than a comparable asphalt road.

The materials themselves are more expensive.

The handling is more labor-intensive, and closures and required traffic control are out longer to allow time for concrete to cure in place.

It's also much just much more disruptive to area residents in using concrete.

And the other issue is not readily apparent, but concrete will tend to mask underground issues.

So, you know, when a pipe burst or you know stuff starts to erode away, concrete can bridge that, and that can go on until you know that there's a significant failure.

Asphalt, on the other hand, doesn't do that.

So the picture that you see in the upper right of the screen, you know, that shows a depression.

You know, that's simply caused by something that's happening, you know, underneath the pavement, and the asphalt being a more flexible pavement tends to follow that, and that gives us you know advanced notice of issues, allows for more rapid identification and repairs.

So, you know, excavation, which is always part of underground utility repair, is much easier in asphalt.

You know, the the concrete uh we use structural steel in the concrete is much more difficult uh to cut when it is cut.

Uh you have to dial uh steel rods back into the slabs to get them to join appropriately.

Uh we do a lot of coordination with public utilities, we do a lot of coordination uh with the various franchise utility companies, but there's always going to be an opportunity for uh underground utility repair work in this area.

So uh the picture that you see here, certainly not in the historic area.

That's recent paving that was done on Centerville Turnpike, but I share that because it's a good-looking road, it rides well, uh it was uh it was done largely uh in you know non-peak traffic times, was open backed up in the mornings.

Uh it's it's cheaper uh to work with, it gives a very nice uh finished product.

So here are the real numbers.

So we estimate that the cost to do one city block uh to reconstruct a concrete roadway with another concrete roadway in the South Novic Historic District is 1.2 million dollars.

That same road could be reconstructed with asphalt for approximately $300,000.

So you can see your money stretches much farther using asphalt versus concrete.

Um we really don't get requests from citizens here or otherwise that say we want concrete roads or we want asphalt roads.

The request that we get is we want safe roads and we want them to ride good, you know, when we're driving down them.

So you know, we have heard from the community, the South Northwest Civic League in particular has asked us to reconsider uh this staff policy in recognition that the money uh would go much further and that you know asphalt is certainly an appropriate uh surface as it's used everywhere else in the city, and just recognizing that you know that there are significant efficiencies to be gained here.

Uh so in recognition of the economic savings, the constructibility, the feedback, you know, from the community, uh public works staff recommends amended the current policy to allow restoration or rehabilitation of concrete roads utilizing asphalt uh in the historic district.

Uh so with that I will turn it back over to uh mr.

Price, and I'll stand by for any questions that you may have.

Thank you.

Does anyone have any questions?

I think you made your case.

Sorry, thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Whitaker.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, Mr.

Price, when you when we talk about the Lake for Lake policy is that streets only what exactly is the light for light policy uh as it stands now so for example when we do park projects if we have um if we have a park that has a historic treatment like lights or benches or something like that and and we need to do repairs we generally um will will try to use a historic um you know something that mimics that historic um character and so i think that that was the genesis of uh the like for light policy i'm not sure at what point that that was applied to streets i i started in twenty nineteen and i heard about it it was already in place when i got here because i heard about it then uh and i'm not sure when practically we we started doing projects but generally speaking it's above ground um in in infrastructure that those those kind of things where you are you're adding uh community amenities um the and and generally speaking that's not been an issue there's not not a tremendous cost differential there are some but not tremendous it's really the roads that for everything that mr sorry laid out the operational the um the amount of roads we're able to do and the and the extreme cost differential that that's the issue okay thank you um and i guess this comment is directed to the rest of the council i went um one day and i was very excited to see a half mile of concrete trucks dumping a slab of concrete probably 10 inches thick all down roger street and i was really excited because the concrete streets it looked beautiful it was wonderful but then to find out that they're going to come back with a two inch cap of asphalt I think we're and that it goes back to a light for light policy um I believe our citizens in South Norfolk just want drivable streets they want drivable streets so uh if it be the will of council um I'd like to see an agenda item come forward to potentially uh change this like for like policy uh I thank you thank you Mr.

Whitaker uh Dr.

Board oh thank you uh Mr Mayor and thank you Mr.

Whitaker and thank you Earl for that information uh and that's pretty um exciting the fact that um the asphalt is being accepted by citizens of South Norfolk uh it has to be a win-win I think situation because when you talk about 1.2 million and 300,000 and we've had so much um concern about making sure that we keep the historic nature of South Norfolk but when it comes to this type of um repairs that can or construction that can really um be beneficial and also more cost effective it allows the dollars to go much much further than I know we talked about returning some funds from the TIF the excess to the capital budget and I was a little concerned about doing that so did not vote for it um but a lot of it was because of our policy in the past has been to try to make sure the historic rooftops of the houses or the homes that need to be the windows the doors and it has just been really really difficult for so many of our citizens so I guess it's like the homes and whatever else now we find something that's acceptable that's more cost effective I support that can that can get us more kind of bang for our bucks I do want to just a question about that concrete which you just mentioned underneath the surface and the asphalt which is we think is much more doable hopefully but will that cause any problems Mr Sorry I guess perhaps ask with buckling there's been a lot recently in the news about that concrete and causing some issues with parking ramps or whatever is that really could we so I I assume you're referring to concrete buckling in extreme heat, and it can it can certainly do that.

Uh you know, the way these roads are built, they're built with uh structural steel uh in the roadway.

So we're using uh a V dot uh specification for that.

So they're not as likely to buckle as what you would have, for instance, on a sidewalk that's that has no uh reinforcing steel on it.

Oh thank you.

Thank you, Council Smith.

Yes, thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh Mr.

Sorry, and in reference to the repaving of the roads, where we already have concrete ed.

Could you tell us the process of repaving them with asphalt?

And would that be a difficulty?

So, you know, if we it depends on depends on the scope of what we're doing.

So let's say we were just gonna mill an overlay.

We we would we would mill the existing uh pavement, we would we would uh pay particular attention to the edges where it ties into uh the curb and gutter, and then we would repave.

If we were reconstructing, then we would we would demolish uh the existing concrete pavement, we would bring in uh select fill, meaning yes uh sand and gravel, build a roadbid uh back and then repave over top of that.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah, so thank you.

Um it sounds like there are a lot of positives related to the asphalt, but are there any negatives that we should be concerned about?

So, you know, if you compare the lifespan of concrete versus asphalt, concrete is designed to last longer.

Uh, but the reality in a case like this is you know it that that longevity is really tempered by your underground utilities, right?

So in an urban area, you're always going to have you know some extent of utility failures, you're always going to have the need to make those cuts.

So uh, you know, I I think that's you know the the drawback of asphalt is it has a shorter service life, but I think it it's it's not as applicable in this case.

If we were building a runway, I would say do concrete every time.

Uh if we were building an interstate, a lot of interstates are built with concrete, but that's because they don't have the the underground utilities that go along with them.

Thanks, Mayor Ritter.

Thank you.

I'm not really sure where the city's current policy of like for like on road surface came from.

Uh that was something that we had worked with uh Jalay Shea when she was the planning director.

So that's kind of the era.

Uh it was about the time that that she was uh transitioning out, I believe.

Is that incorporated in the historic district guidelines?

I do not believe so.

So really this was a that this is a staff level policy, so this was not put in place by by council that this was a staff uh.

Is this the PFM strikes again?

No ma'am, no ma'am.

Okay.

Um I think it probably does not need to come to council.

I think internally let us know through the historic guidelines, what is considered like for like the guidelines were all predicated on the exterior of a building that faced a public street.

Not on a roadway, but fencing windows, just the facades that faced a public street.

So you know, let's not I don't want to throw a hornet's nest here, but if it's an internal policy, it really does not need to be um codified by council.

If I could, Mr.

Mayor, that that's a great segue because by way of next steps, you know, I'm hearing a lot of you know, in the affirmative that this is where council would like to go.

Um unless directed otherwise, staff could certainly just make that change and move forward immediately.

We brought it to you number one for situational awareness because people come to council on both sides and talk about the issue, and certainly if you wanted to make that decision to direct us, you know, to change the policy or to you know change the policy yourselves, perfectly appropriate, but and unless I'm misreading council, it seems like the direction is to go ahead and make that staff level change, communicate it to stakeholders, and begin effectuating that immediately.

Thank you.

And I'll just go ahead and ask council members, anybody wanting on the agenda or you willing to allow uh the manager to make that change?

And it okay.

I don't think we need to take any further action.

Thank you.

Thank you.

No, I don't think it's a little bit more.

I can't speak very well.

I really appreciate it.

Okay, so these are the questions only.

Oh no, I know, we're just gonna ask.

Before we start the meeting, there are a pair of uh glasses in the ladies' restroom.

If you are uh missing them, they've been seeing Mr.

Covey right here.

Council is now in session.

I'd like to recognize Council Member News at this time for the invitation.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Please join me in prayer.

Heavenly Father, we give thanks to you for the many blessings and the opportunity to serve the people of Chesapeake.

Your word teaches us that all wisdom comes from you.

We ask that you grant wisdom, discernment, and understanding to each member of this council as we consider the decisions before us.

Help us to lead with integrity, humility, and a genuine desire to serve others above ourselves.

Guide our thoughts, our discussions, and our actions, give our hearts, give us hearts that seek justice, show mercy, and walk humbly with you.

We pray for your blessing upon this city, her families, businesses, schools, churches, first responders, all who labor to strengthen the city of Chesapeake.

Comfort those who are suffering, provide for those in need, and bring peace to those who are burdened.

We ask all these things in your precious Jesus' name.

Amen.

To lead us in the pledge, may I please have Hudson Grizzard and Maxwell Sanders meet me down here at the front podium?

Hudson is a student at Great Bridge Middle School and a Boy Scout seeking his citizenship and community merit badge.

And then Maxwell is a student at Southeastern Elementary School seeking his merit badge.

And we appreciate you both being here today.

Gentlemen, if you want to lead us, to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic, for which it says one nation, under God, indivisible of liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you, Councilman Newlands.

Appreciate that beautiful prayer.

Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll?

Council Member Bunn.

Here.

Council Member Jeffries.

Here.

Councilmember King.

Here.

Council Member Newens here.

Councilmember Smith.

Here.

Councilmember Ward.

Present.

Councilmember Whitaker.

Vice Mayor Ritter.

Here.

Mayor West.

Present.

City Attorney Lindley, would you please provide the language and certification of the closed meeting we held today?

A motion to certify that to the best of each member's knowledge.

Only public business matters lawfully exempted from open meeting requirements were discussed.

And only such public business matters as were identified in the motion convening the closed meeting were heard, discussed, or considered.

Motion please.

Move approval.

Thank you, Dr.

Ward.

Thank you, Dr.

King.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record.

Motion to certify the closed meeting is adopted by 9-0 vote.

Next is a pro approval of the proposed agenda.

Are there any changes council would like to make?

Seeing none, could we have a motion, please?

Move approval.

Thank you, Dr.

King.

Thank you, Mr.

Smith.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record.

Motion to approve the agenda as presented, is adopted by a 9-0 vote.

Tonight, it is my pleasure to recognize a group of exceptionally talented young musicians who have brought great pride to our great city.

The Oscar Smith High School Chamber of Orchestra is recently earned the extraordinary honor of performing an invitation at one of the most prestigious concerts venues in the world.

That is the Carnegie Hall in New York City.

This achievement reflects not only their musical excellence, but also their countless hours of dedication, discipline, and hard work.

Their performance at Carnegie Hall is a compishment that few young musicians will ever experience, and one that will remain a treasured memory throughout their young lives.

This evening we are pleased to welcome our outstanding director Deanna Kringle and the members of the orchestra as they share a few highlights from their unforgettable journey.

Please come forward.

Y'all come and stand behind Ms.

Thank you so much for your support.

There you go.

All right.

There we go.

So we can get you all in the picture, but we want everyone.

We're so proud of these students for representing our school, our city, and our state on the national level.

This is our fourth time being invited back.

We were the first um group, an high school ensemble from Chesapeake, Virginia, be invited back in 2007.

And a really cool story is at that time there was a lady, a Chesapeake resident whose husband had just passed that week, and he loved Carnegie Hall and loved music, and she said, and we had a newspaper articles in the Virginia Pilot then that year about how she wanted everyone to instead of flowers to donate to our students' trip to Carnegie Hall that first year.

But all these we have 10 of our students here tonight, and that you each want to share some of the fond memories that a lot of you sponsors helped us get there, and we really appreciate your support and all you do for our youth in Chesapeake.

Uh, the first picture is us posing outside of Carnegie Hall, showing our orchestra's name on the Carnegie Hall sign and other performances that week.

Again, as Ms.

Kringle said, in 2007, we were the first ensemble from Hampton Roads to ever have been um invited to Carnegie Hall, and this was our Chamber Orchestra's fourth time being invited back.

The day before our Carnegie Hall performance, we received a very helpful clinic from Dr.

Mark Laycock at the Carroll recording studios.

We really appreciated his uh tips on how we could improve our performance and program.

It was also special to see Paul Simon was there recording that day and to see all the male memorabilia of Elton John and Beyonce.

Next you'll see a picture of us posting outside of the Richard Rogers Theater after watching an amazing performance of Hamilton on Broadway.

I really like the ending where Hamilton was shot because the shot had echoed and made my heart race.

The play was really phenomenal.

I had also liked how different actors and actresses strayed away from the original and made it their own.

I've listened to the Hamilton for years now, so seeing it on Broadway was amazing.

The next picture of us is posing outside the gorgeous St.

Patrick's Cathedral, the largest Roman Catholic cathedral in the United States.

I love seeing all the beautiful architecture around the city and seeing what cool things were for sale.

I really like visiting the tender the most because me, DJ, and Amari played Mario Kart in the store, and we had lots of fun.

The salad I had at Gensavar Market was something looking good that I wanted five more.

The next picture is of us doing our sound check on the Carnegie Hall stage that one of our amazing charbones took from the balcony.

I was inspired by all the work that we've done to perform here.

We worked countless hours together trying to make us sound the best.

It was crazy being able to spend time in such a prestigious backstage area in Carnegie Hall.

The next picture is the Oscar Smith High School Chamber Orchestra performing on the amazing Carnegie Hall stage, including works by Mazorski, Corelli, Grieg, and Copeland.

This is such an amazing and positively life-changing experience for all of us that we'll never forget.

I was very inspired just by getting there.

The room was beautiful, and I definitely had my I made it moment as a senior about to move off to college.

It was a beautiful last experience with my peers.

Carnegie was so grand, it took my breath away.

It was so fun playing for everyone.

The next picture is also from our Carnegie Hall performance showing two of our soloists, Benjamin Pearsall and me, Maimon Ulise, when we were featured performing the violin solos in Corelli's Concerto Grosso Opus number six, number four.

And we even had our solos memorized.

All of the groups sounded excellent.

Especially the band that played right after us.

Their selections were very beautiful.

They all got very into the music, in which in the way they gave me goosebumps every single time.

In case you may have missed it, seeing us on TV, waving outside, waving to you outside the NBC Today show that next morning.

We thought you might enjoy this last fun picture of us posing with one of the NBC news broadcasters.

Going on the NBC show was a fun experience, but when I like how was getting dressed, I forgot to put on like a big coat because it was very cold outside.

I like being on camera at the Today Show.

It was cool to see everyone on camera in real life.

Even though the NBC today was cold, I enjoyed talking to Buck the Cameraman.

Overall, some of the top things that we appreciated.

We're getting to know everyone a little bit better, and seeing all the amazing architecture and designs in New York City, which has been a dream of mine for a really long time, and being able to perform in the Carnegie Hall ever with our orchestra family.

Thank you so much for sharing that that your experience with us.

And we are so so proud of you on behalf of our council and uh 265,000 citizens in this great city.

Thank you, and thank you for your talent and look forward to seeing you in your future.

They'd like to take some.

We can spend a couple of minutes, but we do have a pretty tight agenda, so we do need to move pretty quickly on this.

Next is applicants' agents and citizens' comments on public hearing items.

Therefore, public comments must be relevant to the item on the council's agenda.

When speaking on an agenda item, please make sure your comments are directly related to the merits of the application, which means you focus on the details and the facts of your proposed agenda item.

Focusing on comments on the merits of the application will ensure that public hearing served the public hearing serves its intended purpose for of gathering relevant information for the voting body, further to strike a balance between maintaining order and honoring the public's right to express themselves, and as established by the city council's rules of order and procedure, any speaker that delays or interrupts or otherwise disrupts city council's ability to conduct this meeting in an orderly manner by disorderly incident or disturbing action, speech or other conduct will be declared out of order.

Madam Clerk, would you please present public hearing item A?

PLN REZ 2025-009, Viridian Reserve North, Crowell Residential Inc.

Applicant Drawn Development Group, LLC, owner, William Mullen Agency for a conditional zoning reclassification of approximately 25.3 acres from A1 agricultural to RA residential.

The property is located west of Berkshire Forest, north of Viridian Reserve and south of Hanbury Woods in the Great Ridge Planning Area.

Planning Commission recommends denial.

This item was continued from March 17th and May 19th, 2026 City Council meetings.

Thank you.

Mr.

McNamara, what was your planning staff's recommendation?

The proposed development continues to compatible residential pattern while dedicating public parkland, making a critical roadway connection, and preserving open space and an opportunity for future pedestrian and vehicle vehicular connections.

Staff therefore recommends approval with revised proffers date April 16th, 2026.

Thank you.

And Ms.

McNamara, are there any substantial or any changes from the first time we heard this?

Yes, I believe the applicant could provide more details, but since the last uh public meeting, the applicant has indicated that they have received the deed of release for the for the portion of the property that was in question related to the public right-of-way.

Thank you, sir.

Madam Clerk, would you please call the speakers?

First speaker is Grady Palmer.

Followed by Ashley Phillips.

Good evening, uh Mayor West, Vice Mayor Ritter, members of the council and staff.

My name is Grady Palmer.

My business address uh 222 Central Park Avenue in the City of Virginia Beach.

And so Mr.

McNamara is correct, but we went a couple of steps uh further than the deed of release.

And so what I have in my hand here is a complete deed of dedication package for the conveyance of the necessary right-of-way to the city of Chesapeake that if if this project will be approved, I'll handle the city attorney and they could take it and record it.

Um but the property owner, and I'll just I don't know, Jimmy.

If you can just point to it, but there's two pieces of property that uh that are our property that that's right, and then the my one of my neighbors' property that lives across the street from me, and he's been gracious enough to work with us uh to to complete this package.

But uh this is everything that the city will need to create uh the the right of way and and and what I mean by that is the take it and record it in the in the courthouse, and the city's right of way will exist over um that property, and then when our when if our property is developed, uh if it's approved tonight, then we will record the rest of the right-of-way dedication for Edinburgh Parkway, and so we will have a continuous access from Hanberry Road all the way down uh to benefit road south of Edinburgh, and so that's long been the plan for Edinburgh Parkway.

Uh, along this corridors, residential development has been planned.

Uh this roadway is has been planned.

And one other thing I'll add is one of the things that this will do is we'll allow for a secondary water loop uh line loop to come up Edinburgh Parkway and to connect into Hambury Road.

That will provide a uh secondary um water source in the event that the that the water main on battlefield ever suffered any catastrophic uh event, and so this would provide an alternative source of drinking water uh for residents of Great Bridge.

And so there's a lot of the benefits of this outweigh uh the burdens.

We know the burdens of residential development.

I think the city and the schools have done a good job to address Southeastern, and I thank you for that.

All three of my kids went to South Southeastern.

We know it's necessary, and I know it's coming, uh, but I think this is a major improvement uh for this corridor.

I know my neighborhood has been looking forward, uh, and Berkshire has been looking forward to this connectivity.

It will provide a lot of pedestrian uh uh connectivity, vehicular connectivity from Hanberry, uh directly to Edinburgh without having to go on battlefield.

So that's a pretty major improvement for the Hanbury Road communities.

And so with that, I do ask for your approval.

Uh, and I will hand this to the city attorney's office of approved.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Madam Clerk, how many speakers we have on this item?

We have eight additional speakers, and they will get five minutes each.

Okay, thank you.

Ashley Phillips speaking in opposition, followed by Rogard Ross.

Good evening, Mayor and members of the city council.

My name is Ashley Phillips, and I live at 316 Wisdom Path.

I'm speaking tonight because to ask that you guys vote no against the proper proposed development.

My family and I moved from Virginia Beach where it was overcrowded and we wanted a quieter area, and um a nice place for our children to grow up and go to school.

Um, in the last four years of living here in Chesapeake, we not only have seen three develops developments being done, but an additional one just to the south of us of 400 additional homes, which all go to, unfortunately, my children's school.

In the last three days, we also found out that 100 homes had just been approved, too to go to Southeastern.

Um, and I understand that growth is inevitable in this city and should continue.

However, growth should not come at the cost of our children's education, and that's exactly what is happening at this point.

Some of our children's classrooms are 30 plus students within that classroom.

This not only affects the quality of our children's education, but also places tremendous stress on our teachers.

Our students deserve attention and support that they need to succeed.

And our education deserve to have manageable classrooms.

Also, on top of that, our transportations to get our children to and from school are also facing a shortage of bus drivers.

Our neighborhood used to have two buses, we now have one that takes 72 children to Southeastern elementary school, on top of the fact that the middle school does not have a bus driver every single day, and my child is late to school almost every day.

Adding these homes will cause tremendous stress to not only the school but to our bus drivers.

We also continue to deal with the impact of the construction just to the south of our neighborhood.

While those construction workers use our streets to go to work, my husband just a day after the last meeting had to stand in the middle of the street to slow a worker down, while our student stat at the bus stop just by that construction zone.

We are also struggling with speeding already in our neighborhood, and adding more homes adds more vehicles.

This proves a safety measure to our children to be able to play and our neighborhood safely.

At this point, for this reason, I ask that you guys please vote no for this proposed development.

And I'd like to thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you.

Speaking in opposition, followed by Kurt Gizard.

Good evening.

At its February 11th meeting, the planning commission recommended denial of this application based on a concern with the loss of open space, wetlands, and environmentally sensitive areas, as well as the impact on schools.

I hope you agree with those concerns and also deny this application.

In the Comp Plan, the COMP plan that did a green space survey and residents overwhelmingly indicated a desire for protection of forested green space.

But the city has lost over 800 acres of trees between 2014 and 2021.

And even more has been lost between 2021 and 2026.

This 25 acre parcel is almost entirely forested today.

5.6 acres of this forest land is identified as sensitive wetlands in the environmental site assessment.

Of the remaining 2.7 acres, that's all mostly in that area designated now, looking as conservation land, but now as a park site.

Given to the city, even once the developer leave plans, this development will result in the loss of about 16 to 18 acres of trees.

Since we state law requires no net loss of wetlands acreage and function, how is the developer going to mitigate the 2.9 acres being paved over?

And how will the city protect the 2.7 acres of wetlands they are inheriting in this park site?

So we don't cut down the trees in the park and leave it in the natural state.

In addition, the site plan sows four acres of conservation area along the west side of the development, which is now considered a drainage ditch.

I'd like to note that that drainage ditch was actually once the headwaters of the Southern Branch over the Elizabeth, before it was severed from the river by the Albumal Canal in 19th century.

So while this is not protected by Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area, the developers should be encouraged to keep these four acres forested and uh as much in the natural state as possible.

Let's vote for the trees this time, and uh I thank you for your consideration.

Kurt Grizzar, representing self speaking in opposition, far backal.

Mayor, ladies and gentlemen of city council.

We're here today, you know, it's not just me, it's a neighborhood.

We are here in opposition of this new plan.

Southeastern elementary, whose current enrollment is currently at 780 with a capacity of 650 students.

The new addition will add 200 new seats.

And then only leaving 70 new seats to be filled by all these neighborhoods.

We're going to have the new developments that are already underway are on peaceful road.

We have the villages of Edinburgh, 77 lots, Ashburn Meadows, 337 lots, Verdian South, 61 lots, Ryan Homes at Patriots Ridge, 99 homes.

And then you have Patriots Walk, 135 homes.

And then there is the development that is planned that's right across from Briggs' funeral home at 105 homes.

That is 814 new homes for Southeastern Elementary alone.

The city has to grow, but unfortunately, all that growth is happening around that this just one particular area that's being packed in.

That's where the farm landed.

That's that's what's being sold.

And then at the last city council meeting, I believe it was Mr.

McNamara and then several other members that had discussed this, that for 45 homes that the developer is proposing, nine students were predicted to come from that.

That didn't sit right with me.

So I did some research and I found that in the city of Chesapeake, there is an average of 2.65 people per household.

Approximately 30, these 37% of households in the city of Chesapeake are households with children.

The average family size is 3.17 people per household, which are strictly classified as families.

The average family within the city of Chesapeake is one child per household.

So if you're looking at 45 homes, that's 45 kids.

So with you know, with the numbers that we had above, with 814 homes, they said nine kids are gonna come from the 45 homes here, and then the 500 homes that are right below Verin Reserve, estimated approximately 90.

So 99 kids, whereas based off of the census data, where they're saying one family, one child per family is the average in the city of Chesapeake, with 25% of the residents of the city of Chesapeake are children under the age of 18.

So that's 25 percent or kids that are going to these schools that potentially could be overcrowded, and that's going to affect because the school the schools, they're looking at these estimates, they're looking at the formula, and Mr.

McNamara this weekend, he took time out of, you know, he was off, but he explained me to the process where they look at the end of the year and they build this formula out.

I think this formula is they're not getting the true data.

They're not looking at the census data to where it estimates one student, one child per household.

So if that's the case, and we have 800 some new homes, there is the potential, even cutting that in half.

Let's say it's a half a child per household.

That's still 400 kids that are gonna be put into Southeastern.

And with their estimates, they're saying that it was at 146.8% capacity with the new addition.

And that's just 99 some kids being added.

If the true data with the census is true, and we have 400 potential children going into Southeastern, where is that going to put us?

How bad are these kids going to be affected?

You know, it's you know, and it really didn't hit me until last week when we were we had registered our daughter for school at Southeastern.

She's five years old, turning six in November, going into kindergarten.

And for me to see that email, thinking of this city council agenda item, it scares me because I don't know what not only is it, you know, my baby girl is going into kindergarten.

That scares me too.

But it scares me that I don't know what all of these additions are going to bring.

Are they gonna have enough teachers?

They don't have enough transportation.

That's already that's an ongoing issue.

Thank you for your time, and I please vote no.

Kyle Sprangler, speaking in opposition, followed by Brooks Sprangler.

Good evening, mayor, council members.

My name's Kyle Spangler.

I live at Veridian Reserve.

I live in Viridian Reserve at 324 Wisdom Path.

I'm here to respectfully oppose the Veridian Reserve North rezoning.

This project would add up to 43 homes on roughly 25 acres with traffic routed through our existing neighborhood and a planned extension of Edinburgh Parkway.

But from where we sit as residents who actually live with this, it's not just about growth.

It's about risk being pushed downstream, both literally and financially, onto existing neighborhoods like ours and the citizens of Chesapeake as a whole.

I want to be very specific about what this means on the ground.

The current plan places a new stormwater pond next to an existing ditch, which is immediately adjacent to an existing retention pond at the headwaters of Cooper's Ditch.

All of it is layered on top of a forested wetland that currently acts as a natural stormwater buffer for the surrounding area.

This is not the theoretical, this is our drainage system.

Everything flows directly into Cooper's Ditch and into the neighborhoods that already exist downstream.

Stacking multiple drainage features in this exact location creates a real risk of overloading during heavy rainfall, backups and bottlenecks, and increased flow into yards, streets, and homes.

And if something goes wrong, it won't stay contained on that 25-acre site.

It will move directly into our neighborhood and others downstream.

And I also want to point out during Hurricane Matthew, the entire site was under approximately one to two feet of water.

And that water level was approaching my back door.

So this is not hypothetical.

It has already happened.

And when it happens again, it will not be the developer dealing with it years from now.

It will be the city crews, emergency stormwater responses, and long-term infrastructure upgrades funded by taxpayers and felt by the residents along Cooper's Ditch first.

We already know wetlands and stormwater concerns were serious enough for the Planning Commission to deny this project once.

Those risks don't disappear with approval.

They become long-term liabilities.

If mitigation falls short or flooding increases, the city, not the developer, ends up responsible.

This project also does not have a standalone road network.

It pushes traffic through Viridian Reserve first, using infrastructure that was never designed to carry that level of through traffic.

Residents aren't speculating.

We live it every day.

And until that north connection is complete, our neighborhood becomes an access road.

The success of this project depends heavily on the future connection to Hanberry Road.

But today, that connection is not fully secured and does not align with the Chesapeake 2050 transportation framework.

It depends still on private property and is already facing delays with negotiations continuing.

If that connection cannot be completed voluntarily, the city could face land acquisition costs, legal disputes, or even imminent domain involving private privately owned property, and that costs and the cost to build and maintain that roadway.

That is a direct financial risk to taxpayers, tied to a project that benefits a private developer.

From our perspective, this proposal does three things: sends more water downstream into Cooper's Ditch, sends more traffic through neighborhoods not designed for it, and creates financial exposure that ultimately falls on taxpayers.

And respectfully, 47,000 does not come close to covering those risks or potential costs.

That's not balanced gross growth.

That's risk transfer.

Council members, this decision affects real neighborhoods, not just a map or a concept plan.

You're being asked to approve a project that places additional pressure on an already strained drainage system, redirects traffic into existing residential streets, and leaves taxpayers exposed if critical pieces fail to come together.

From where we live, these are not abstract risks, they are immediate and personal.

So I'll close with this.

If this project cannot stand on its own without relying on uncertain drainage performance, unsecured road access, and future taxpayer funding, then it should not be approved.

A yes vote accepts those risks and those costs.

A no vote protects the residents you represent.

I respectfully ask you to vote no.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Brooke Sprangler, speaking in opposition, followed by Beth Johnson.

Good evening.

My name is Brooks Bangler.

I live at 324 Wisdom Path.

I am here again this evening to urge you to vote no on the Veridian Reserve North Development.

As discussed previously on several occasions, this project does not have the support of the Chesapeake Planning Committee or the surrounding communities, given a number of concerns.

One significant concern is the development of the land itself.

Adding 43 homes to this area results in a loss of forwarded west forested wetlands and will require installation and maintenance of complex artificial drainage and retention systems.

The plan currently shows a large retention pond that will be 40 feet from the back of my house, not from the back of my property line from the back of my house.

Another significant concern is the disconnect between our city's residential zoning approvals and the reality of our school infrastructure.

I reviewed the Chesapeake School Board's proposed capital improvement plan for 2025 through 2035.

The data in this plan paints a troubling picture for Southeastern Chesapeake, where our elementary schools are facing an immediate overcrowding crisis with no viable long-term solution.

Southeastern elementary is currently operating over 120% of its capacity and will continue to be overcapacity once the building addition is completed this next school year.

The addition is a reactive stopgap measure to handle a crisis that already exists and does nothing to prepare for the wave of new development that has already been approved.

Hickory Elementary is also heavily burdened, operating well over its student capacity and relying on portables.

While there is planning area technically available at Butts Road Intermediate, the conversion of that school to provide regional relief is delayed until 2033.

The plan explicitly states that a new elementary school site will need to be acquired in the Hickory area.

However, this land acquisition has been pushed to 2030.

The city is approving hundreds of high-yield residential units today, but delaying and underfunding the infrastructure required to support them tomorrow.

My last concern is that these issues are falling on deaf ears.

The city planning committee voted in February to deny this rezoning because of these exact exact problems that have been outlined.

We cannot afford to continue approving high yield residential rezonings while neglecting the infrastructure required to support them.

I urge this council to honor the planning commission's recommendation, listen to the community, and vote no on this project.

Thank you.

Beth Johnson, speaking in opposition, followed by Megan Brown.

Good evening, Mayor West and members of the council.

My name is Beth Johnson.

I live at 326 Wisdom Path.

I am here again to strongly oppose the proposed development behind Viridian Reserve.

You do not have the support of the planning council or its current residents surrounding this area.

You've heard our concerns raised by residents month after month.

The loss of critical forested land and wildlife, increased flooding and stormwater, traffic and safety, and our overcrowding in the already strained schools and transportation systems.

I understand that the city of Chesapeake wants to see Edinburgh Parkway completed.

Many of us want that support that goal.

However, community deserves a meaningful voice in determining how this development takes shape.

Right now, it feels as though a new section of roadway is being used as leverage to gain approval for residential development that comes with significant consequences for its existing residents.

At minimum, we're asking city leaders and developers to work with the residents to reduce the impact on our neighborhood.

The currently proposed 10-foot easement is not sufficient to preserve any privacy, protect wildlife corridors, or maintain the natural buffer that defines Viridian Reserve.

Expanding this buffer would help protect both the environment and the quality of life.

We also ask that the overall density of this project be reconsidered.

Adding 43 more homes to this limited space will only increase pressure on the roads, schools, and infrastructure while further changing the character of our community.

The risks of this development go far beyond our environmental loss, and it directly affects the safety and education of our children.

Our schools are already facing serious challenges, which you've heard multiple times tonight.

Many classrooms are operating near or at or even over capacity.

My daughter's fourth grade class at Southeastern had 29 students.

There are ongoing shortages of bus drivers, as you've heard, and it's already been impacted for transportation reliability and student safety.

I'm taking my children to school every day.

Thankfully, I have the ability to.

Not everybody can.

And they're right, that middle school bus, it's never there on time.

Our children deserve safe transportation, manageable classrooms, and schools that can support their success.

Expanding residential development without expanding school infrastructure places unnecessary and avoidable risks on families and students.

Woodford Estates, Patriots Ridge, Patriots Walk, Stillwater, Ashburn Meadows, brought up hundreds and hundreds of homes, and they're all slated for our schools.

And I mean the school board, where they're just going to rezone again.

I mean, we're about.

Right now, and see immediate neighbors just between us, just four of us, we have nine currently going to Southeastern.

So to say that possibly only nine kids in 43 homes, and I've been told there's bigger fish in the barrel to to hit or whatever the saying is, I don't care.

Um 43 homes is like somewhere has somewhere somebody has to make a stand and it needs to start now, somewhere people need to stop saying let's keep building because it needs to stop.

If it can't be stopped, then it at least needs to be done responsibly.

We're not asking necessarily everything to stop.

We just want it to be thoughtful, balanced out growth that does not come at the expense of everything that makes Great Bridge a place that people like to call home.

Our schools are over, and just like Mr.

Grizzard, I have one going into kindergarten this year, and the idea of homeschooling just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Everybody wants to know why everybody's going to homeschooling.

Our schools are overcrowded.

Our teachers cannot handle it.

Our the teachers' assistants cannot handle it.

They need help and they're drowning, and we are losing really good teachers.

And I'm just waiting to see how many actually show up to this next school year because they are tired.

They're tired of it.

As parents, we are also tired of it.

Our neighborhood is tired of coming up here every month continuance after continuance with out seeing papers in the hands that say we're going to have this road completed for you.

Because otherwise, all of these cars, like they said, are going to be going through our neighborhood.

And from Hanbury down to Target or what are we here saying benefit now?

These cars are going to become, we're gonna be in another Centerville, another Mount Pleasant.

We're not gonna be able to park on either side of the road, and it's gonna become a drag strip.

We live in the back of the neighborhood.

We never used to hear traffic from the expressway.

Now all of these homes are being torn down.

All we hear all night are cars racing up and down 168.

And we're seeing it on our roads.

I mean, what did we just have to have happen not too long ago on Johnstown and Battlefield?

Cars are speeding everywhere, and they are going to make this Edinburgh Parkway between Hanbury and Target is going to be your next drag strip.

Thank you.

We are begging you to please say no to this, and thank you for your time.

Megan Brown, speaking in opposition, followed by Charlie Zinn.

Good evening.

My name is Megan Brown, and I live directly adjacent to the proposed development at 320 Wisdom Path.

I'm here because I'm vehemently opposed to this proposed development.

I am here because I believe the impacts on the existing residents have not been adequately addressed.

My first concern is flooding and stormwater management.

Many of us live in the area with a high water table and wet conditions.

The property being developed contains wetlands that currently absorb and manage the stormwater.

And those wetlands are filled and replaced with homes, roads, and more impervious surfaces.

The water has nowhere to or has to go somewhere.

I'm deeply concerned that this project could increase flooding risks for existing homeowners who are already experiencing drainage challenges.

My second concern is traffic and public safety.

The only access to this proposed development is through our existing neighborhood.

Our roads are already congested and in many places too narrow to safely accommodate additional traffic.

Residents frequently have to pull over to allow oncoming vehicles to pass because there are cars parked on either side of the street.

Conditions around Southeastern have become so congested that signs have been installed restricting entrance during school hours due to safety concerns, traffic issues, and accidents.

I legally cannot turn left into the school to drop my kids off.

I can't legally make a U-turn during school hours to take my kids to school.

So they even had police officers when they installed those signs in January, blocking us from being able to take our children to school.

And they had no way of us being able to like get there safely.

So now we still have a police officer and a traffic person telling us to turn like illegally into the school just to get our children to school because as you've already heard, the bus is situation.

My third concern is the cumulative impact of growth in our community.

We are being told this to development may only add a small number of students to local schools, but that number does not exist in isolation.

Southeastern currently serves approximately 780 students in a building designed for 650.

In addition, much of the capacity is already needed for existing enrollment.

We've already gone through all of this.

My concern is not this project alone, it's the cumulative effect of all the approved growth of our schools, roads, drainage systems, and public services.

Finally, I'm um extremely concerned about the proposed retention spot um pond that's planned for directly behind my house.

I'm a mother of a toddler, and many families in our neighborhood have young children.

We've seen drownings in Virginia Beach of kids recently from retention ponds and another large body of water immediately behind my house when I live.

Um is just it creates serious safety concerns for families with young children.

I request that you please deny this proposed development, or at the very least, carefully review the flooding and stormwater impacts, evaluate the accumulative effects of approved growth on our community, and prioritize the safety of families who already live here.

Thank you for your consideration.

The final speaker is Charlie Zinn.

Good evening, honorable uh council members, uh staff and city managers and staff.

Uh thank you for this opportunity.

Uh you can tell, you know, from my voice, you know, accent.

You know, I traveled uh 10,000 miles actually yesterday, you know, uh came back uh to the home.

Um, you know, I call it home uh due to his um you know safety, environment, and uh quality of life.

However, um, you know, it can be significant um negatively impacted uh by you know very different um you know reserve north um development.

Um I came here uh to oppose uh this plan uh for good reasons.

Uh as I mentioned, you know, I you know came from uh a place, you know, there's no place you know where I can see white life in our neighborhood backyard, only I can see white lives in the zoom.

Uh so I oppose uh this plan um because uh um the land is important, uh, natural habitats uh for deer and other um wildlife and uh many you know of my neighbors come here uh express the same concerns.

Um, personally, you know, I observe the deer's other uh wide lives in my backyard.

But I do, you know, uh wish my kids can still see the uh not just in like a North Zoom.

So in other words, it's not just the warning, you know, it's happening if we are not protecting our land, um, then we will lose uh the space for the um the habitat uh of white life here.

Second, um there are serious safety concerns um for children.

Uh we have uh, as I mentioned, I call this a home because of the safety.

Um, and but now we already um have a heavy traffic uh due to the um you know development in the south.

Uh I know this particular while uh to um complete the project.

The checks making wide turns um if you see them in our neighborhood, and this actually, you know, creating serious um dangerous uh brine spots.

Uh so usually, you know, our kids can play safely outside and do the biking, uh play uh sports, uh, even just the hangout, uh walking dogs, but now it looks like uh uh we have to be very careful and uh actually uh I do you know escort my kids, you know, even you know, just for short walk to the bus stop.

So the land uh calendarly help absorb um storm water naturally uh because I live in the neighborhood since uh uh first uh couple years the um the neighborhood established uh actually we had very serious um you know um the issue for the uh the water um the flooding uh you probably you remember uh after 2007 I forgot which year even like uh talk at Walmart in that area you know flatted uh significantly uh so my neighbors already expressed and the show the the facts about where the land the importance uh in uh verted and loss so um the growth should be responsible and the balanced um infrastructure expansion and the commercial growth should not come at the expense of safety wide life and the quality of life so this is not just about the you know my home uh in Virginia Reserve or my neighborhood or this actually about the you know 200,000 citizens in um general in the city uh I respectfully ask the council deny this uh uh obligation or uh consider some more much more responsible alternative plans uh that's my uh you know uh you know I tried my best to um make uh this uh a position thank you for your time that concludes the speakers thank you madam clerk and thank you all for coming out and expressing your your concerns we certainly do appreciate you council there is uh you've heard from our speakers you've heard the proposition and motion is now in order order with uh proffers councilman newis move approval with proffers Mr.

Whitaker I'll second that any discussion this new ones thank you Mr.

Mayor um to staff there's a number of questions that have been brought up about the schools I know the schools have been a big concern for all of us on council do you mind explaining what the um equation is that is utilized and how the schools come up with that number like how long it's been utilized and why does we go off those numbers versus the census absolutely so the level of service analysis that's provided each year is based off of enrollment numbers that are provided by Chesapeake public schools and each year they do a breakdown between housing unit type and anticipated student generation ratio so in this case when we're talking about single family detached housing unit types we're looking at a ratio of about 0.46 to units per students per unit that are anticipated to be there now when you apply that specifically to this uh to this rezoning let me pull up the numbers real quick here um but I do want to specify that those numbers are broken down over both the high school the middle school and the elementary school so each of those students would be distributed based on the percentages of each student that would be a display for those uh for those uh school units so for this in this case the projected number of students for southeastern would be nine Great Bridge Middle would be five and Great Bridge High would be six for a total of 20 students.

Thank you and then there's some other projects that were referenced that have already been approved that have not been um built or the certificate of occupancies have not been obtained yet are you familiar with some of those projects yes ma'am and do any of those projects have triggers meaning they can't get certificate of occupancy until the southeastern expansion is completed yes ma'am there are certain projects I know that for a fact that they're you know when we're talking about like Ashburn Meadows that there are certainly some protections in place there and I believe there are several other projects that have those profits are in place as well.

I can't name them all at this point.

Are you familiar if those projects are on track or delayed or advanced in their their stages?

The the residential projects?

Yes, sir uh I believe, well, it we there are a number of those that have submitted plans that are either in different phases of either construction at this point, uh, and site plan approval, but uh I do not believe at this time that there are any uh known delays that have been expressed to staff.

Okay, thank you.

And then um to the city attorney, the documents that um Mr.

Palmer was mentioning about the deed.

Has your office had the opportunity to review those?

Are those sufficient as far as ownership transfer?

Yes, we reviewed the details that were pertinent to the properties that were involved and if they were legally executed, and we found them to be sufficient.

Okay, thank you.

And then Mr.

Manager, there um have been obviously a number of concerns about Southeastern Elementary.

Um I know that these schools have asked us for funding for the expansion, and we have funded that request.

Is that correct?

Yes, ma'am.

And has there been any additional requests from the schools about any additional expansions or any funding for a new school in that area?

No, ma'am.

Okay, has there been any conversations from the school with us about expanding or solving the issue of overcrowding over there?

Not to my knowledge.

Okay, and as far as the expansion goes, are you familiar with when that will be completed?

Either Mr.

Manager or Mr.

McNamara.

It's my understanding that it's projected to be open for the upcoming school year.

In the fall, like this year, yes, ma'am.

Okay, and the capacity that I think um the gentleman referenced before, is that accurate as far as the numbers that it'll allow in capacity for students?

In the school's memo, they do anticipate that with the number of projects that are in uh different phases that they expect that number will remain around 120 percent when everything is done.

So we're operating at about 120 percent today with the additional uh projects that are in the pipeline right now.

The number jumps up to 146.8, but then you count in the addition, and they anticipate that the school will be operating at around that 120 percent capacity.

Okay, thank you.

And Mr.

Palmer, if I may ask you a few questions.

There's a 10-foot vegetated buffer that you all are proffering, and in the proffer, it references a um priority of preserving the existing trees that are there.

There's been a number of concerns referenced regarding the BMP that's behind a couple of homes on Wisdom Path.

Does that 10-foot vegetated buffer extend along the BMP as well?

I think it's a BMP that's there.

Yes, it's a continuous row.

Okay, so it'll go all the way extending beyond the residential as well as the BMP, so the the stormwater drainage.

Yeah, but behind Viridian, that buffer will run continuously.

The entire 10-foot vegetated, okay.

And it's your intention to preserve as many trees as possible.

Very much so.

And then there's a term in there that indicates that you're gonna additionally plant eight-foot mature trees if there are any trees taken down.

Correct yeah, correct.

So the buffer will be so usually in the what's normally done is the plantings are very small when they're when they're planted.

What we wanted to do was to create a buffer that was more mature.

So we're purchasing trees that are older, and those will be planted in that buffer.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr.

Palmer.

Um, I guess I just have a few comments.

I I don't want the speakers to think that their concerns are not being unheard, um, which is I I made the motion because I feel like when I'm it's it's a weighing game.

You're weighing the the project, you're weighing the needs of the community.

For me, when I'm looking at the impact on the community, I see that there is an issue with schools.

However, for me, I feel like it's adequately addressed with the expansion, the limited number of schools that are coming, and then quite frankly, the fact that the schools have not come to us and asked for additional funding.

So I hear that there's a problem, but the schools aren't coming to us and saying we have a problem, give us additional money, help us fund this.

I think that is something that's imperative for us to consider.

We don't run the schools, so we do the best we can by funding their projects.

We have funded their expansion, we've done that, we've been supportive of them, but they've not come to us and said we need additional funding for these additional projects.

Nine students I would indicate is a minimal impact on the schools.

I understand there's a number of other projects that are in the pipeline, but there are these triggers that are in place that will delay, so not all the students are coming at once into the school.

There's a substantial vegetated buffer that's being offered, the 10-foot vegetated buffer with the preservation of trees.

There's also a term in there that indicates that if it's not that this the city, Mr.

McNamara ultimately would have the authority over that buffer if it is agreeable to the city, and I imagine the citizens, if there's concerns about the buffer, that can be expressed through Mr.

McNamara as well, because we're going to appoint somebody who will oversee that is what our proffer indicated.

It'll be a someone who will be overseeing the vegetative buffer to ensure that that's proper.

Is that correct, Mr.

McNamara?

Yes, ma'am.

Staff will be aware of that.

So we will have significant oversight, it appears as it relates to a number of the concerns that are being expressed by the community.

I think it also is important to note that there is this is a wide community that's going to be impacted.

There's a number of different streets that are going to be impacted, and we don't we don't see the entire community here offering concern.

We see a limited portion of the community, and I think we have done, and I I know the community may disagree with me on this, but I think it's important that I offer you my thought process.

I think I owe that to you when I make a vote.

So I think when I'm looking at my thought process, there's a number of concerns, and I look at how have we addressed those concerns, and I think that we have adequately and thoughtfully done a great job at trying to address those concerns through buffers, through delays with the schools, through providing funding through the schools, through the enrollment trends.

We indicated in our package, enrollment trends are down.

So I understand the concerns the community presents.

I feel you, I do hear you, but I want you to know that I have been very thoughtful in making this decision, and your voice does not go unnoticed.

I know you may disagree with my vote, but I think I owe it to you to explain why I am voting in support today.

So thank you all.

Thank you, Councilman.

Noah has any other comments from council members.

Ms.

Ritter?

Thank you.

I guess I'm the only one.

Um I think that was a great analysis that Mrs.

Newan's presented to you.

I'm gonna go kind of the other way, which I've been doing now for 25 or 26 years.

I understand fully the level of service policy.

Um I can't remember the year, even though I have a pretty good long-term memory, I voted against the original level of service policy as a member of the Planning Commission because I felt those school numbers were too high.

Um, and actually, um, a partner on the other side, Dr.

West, was a school principal who was part of formulating the way that the level of service uh study was done and how the numbers were allocated, right?

So even then we disagreed a little bit.

But what we won't disagree on, I feel sure, is that I'm still looking for that house that has.446 children, and I have asked the schools over the years, could they possibly take a look at the level of service policy and make it area-wide, because in certain areas and with certain types of home development, there are not going to be children generated in other areas, and this happens to be one of those geographic areas of the city, there are going to be more families and more children generated.

Um I think Ms.

Newman's brought up a very important point.

The schools in the city are really separate entities, but to the people who live in the city, they don't consider us separate, nor should they.

What we need to do, should this application be successful tonight, is request the schools consider rezoning these students.

The development has not been built yet.

There is no expectation of where children will go to school.

And it may, you know, whether it's nine kids or 90, it's going to shift those students to actually schools that are closer than the southeastern elementary.

My girls went to Southeastern Elementary.

That was a long way then from us.

So if we could prepare that letter, and I don't know whether who should send it, but maybe we need to start that outreach with the schools and be a part of their decisions instead of them saying it's all the city council's fault because they do the rezoning, and us saying it's the school's fault because they won't do enrollment change.

So just an idea, and I want to thank you all for coming out and voicing your opinion.

I also still, for the fifth year, have a real concern about Kegman Road.

It is a dangerous road.

I feel for you with trucks coming through your neighborhood.

We have that, but we don't allow parking on our side street because it's 18 feet wide.

So anyway, I'd like to see.

Would you sign that letter, Mayor?

Do you think it's appropriate for um the staff?

Requesting the schools take a look at rezoning these students.

Well, let me make my comment.

Are you done?

No, but you go ahead.

No, I'll wait till you're done.

Well, that's about it.

I mean, I you may defend what they say or do, but if we don't ask, I mean, it's kind of like you don't ask for something, you're never gonna get it.

And maybe now is the time we want to start instituting that ask before the homes are built, before parents and families are threatened with their kids moving.

Um, just do it right off.

And with the new road, should be simple.

I don't disagree with you, uh, Vice Mayor.

I think it's uh uh the school system, having spent 30 years in the school system, and having seen seen growth continuing during those 30 years and serving as a principal in some of the schools that were like double the size that they should have been, the school system always has found a way to expand to meet the needs to so that schools don't stay overcrowded.

They may be overcrowded for a period of time, but over the time that I was in this in the school system, they always found a way by building a new school or rezoning or whatever they had to do, they've done it.

And I have confidence that that will that will take place when it's when it's needed.

I did also want to ask you, Mr.

Manager, if you are if there's anyone here from the staff who could talk about uh the importance of that Edinburgh Parkway extension.

So uh Jay Tate, director of development of permits is here.

I'll ask him to come down to the microphone, but just at a high um high altitude level, it's a master road plan road, so it's a critical uh parallel corridor that serves as a relief valve um for some of the other um arterials and and collectors in the um southern portion of the city, but um Jay can provide more context.

Edinburgh Parkway, so what is the importance of it?

Um one of the things we look for is traffic redundancy and the ability to take people who are in their homes and they're the origin and the destination is where they want to go.

So we want to provide a transportation system that's efficient.

And right now, if you want to move north-south in that part of the city, you have one road, it's Battlefield Boulevard, it's not very friendly for pedestrians or bicycles, and it's not particularly the best road for a large volume of people.

So Edinburgh Parkway will provide redundancy.

The other thing it'll do is it'll provide a great local route.

So Battlefield Boulevard is more of an arterial higher speed roadway.

Um, Edinburgh Parkway will provide a lower speed, more of a roadway that serves as a collector for many homes that are in the area.

Some of the homes exist today, and some of them will be built in the future with other developments, but it'll be more of a local traffic generation that wants to go to commercial and schools in the f and the immediate vicinity.

The other thing Edinburgh Parkway does is it provides efficiency in distributing traffic from the homes to the major um transportation corridors like 168.

Right now, um, like council person Ritter indicated, Kegman Road is not the best road, and it has some geometric challenges and peaceful road and the best road.

But as you build in the efficiency and the number of distribution points to get from this, you know, cluster of residential homes, now they'll be able to travel north on Edinburgh Parkway to Hanbury Road and provide great access to 168.

They'll be able to provide to travel south to the commercial traffic centers and even an additional connection to 168.

So where you're adding 47 homes, the amount of traffic efficiency you're creating by completing that link is you know it'll pay great dividends.

Has that been, has that been planned?

How long has that extension that uh extension been planned?

Well, it's been planned I know for at least two uh master transportation cycles, and we've been working with developments as it goes along, and as long as the efficiency of getting it constructed through development is incredible.

Um, some of us have been here for a few years, and if you look at Etheridge Manor Boulevard, the number of developments it took to get Etherage Manor Boulevard from Centerville Turnpike to 168 was a lot of developments over a lot of years, and in that particular project, the city had to close a lot of very expensive gaps.

In this case, the city has incurred virtually no cost, and you know, the city's contribution to an important transportation corridor is probably going to be in the neighborhood of constructing about a hundred foot of roadway, so very efficient.

So, you're saying it was planned before the Veridian uh project?

Oh, much much much earlier.

It it came about um probably in the time of when Edinburgh was first anticipated because Edinburgh included a major transportation route north-south to parallel Battlefield Boulevard.

Now, are there uh signs or uh in this community that show that that parkway is going to be going from that direction?

Yes, so at each dead end of or at each roadway stub we provide that there will be future connections, and actually in Hanbury Woods, we went to the additional step of at the very connection between Edinburgh Parkway and Hanbury Road.

There's a sign in the median.

So everyone in Hanbury Woods would be aware that this would be a roadway that eventually extends down to Edinburgh.

Thank you.

Any other uh comments, questions, Mr.

Whitaker?

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um to the speakers, I want to thank you all for coming out.

You've come out several times.

We we definitely appreciate your perspectives.

I can't agree with Ms.

Newman's uh more.

She articulated very well.

One thing I didn't hear anybody mention, and uh Mr.

Manager, if you could kind of uh elaborate, the water line that goes through there, the importance of that waterline.

Uh could you please speak on that?

I'll be in a little over my head here, but I'm gonna give you a pretty good shot at it.

So the right now uh the the treatment plant uh is down at the bottom of Battlefield Boulevard, and uh the main line travels up and down Battlefield Boulevard.

If you were to have a catastrophic event that were to occur in Battlefield Boulevard, there is no redundancy at this point in time from east-west perspective to provide water to the rest of Great Bridge.

So, what this water line will do is provide that redundancy from uh the from uh the the eastern side to the to the western side so it will make that connection between the Johnstown uh lines and then uh back over to the battlefield, which is really critical that we if that way, if there was a catastrophic failure, we could actually reroute water and and continue to provide that service to that area of the city.

Thank you.

Uh as it was mentioned earlier, uh when we consider land use, it's very much a balancing act and uh you know when when you look at all the pros versus the cons uh and I and I I very much appreciate all these neighbors coming together and speaking uh uh their opinions, but I myself uh uh this is a great opportunity to where uh this segue uh this north south segue can uh be completed, and if it's completed now at this time, then it will be a much less burden on the taxpayer.

So that's why I'm supporting it.

So thank you.

Uh Ms.

Redder?

Thank you.

I just have one more question, Mr.

Tate, so that you can get your exercise.

Um while you're coming down, this it is not determinant for my vote at all, but I have a question I've been meaning to ask repeatedly.

Um is it the PFM, my favorite publication, of course, that requires any new road construction will have sidewalks on both sides?

Yes, ma'am.

So with this roadway from peaceful road, at least, you know, I I can't go that far back from Peaceful to Hanberry.

Is that part of what will be built by Proffer?

Um, the stretch of Edinburgh Parkway from Peaceful Road north to Hanbury Road will be constructed with a number of developments, and all of them have been approved except this one, and all of them have sidewalk on both sides.

Okay, how wide?

I mean, this is just for my information.

Um I don't know in Hanbury Woods, um, I want to say in the last few years, they um we've increased the minimum width of a sidewalk from four foot to five foot.

So probably the southern section of that long road would be five foot, and then the northern section in Hanbury Woods, that might have still been a four-foot wide sidewalk.

Has have those designs been approved?

Um the development between Peaceful Road and Veridian have been approved, and um Hanbury Woods exists, so the last piece that hadn't been reviewed and approved for construction would be this development.

Okay, it's disappointing to hear there'll be different wins, but thank you very much.

I just wanted to make sure that was still um a part of what we do.

Councilman Bunn.

Thank you, Mayor West.

Um, couple of the speakers tonight brought up um the flooding concerns they have.

If could staff address that, said Jay again.

Maybe stay up here for a while.

Yes, sir.

Um a few speakers tonight brought up the their concern about floodiness.

You could you address that?

Um Cooper's Ditch and Poplar Branch.

They accurately indicated that those are major drainage facilities that were constructed by the city, and in fact, since they were originally constructed have been maintained and upgraded in the recent years.

There was a lot of observations about flooding and Hurricane Matthew.

I think that might have been like 2016.

I'm going by memory, and that was an extensive storm that caused flooding all over the city, and it was largely due to the um the quantity of the rainfall was almost double what was predicted for a hundred-year event for the city.

Um so flooding by that storm was probably not a great indicator of whether you were susceptible to flooding because a large part of the city was the one thing that I would say as far as the retention basins are part of what prevents flooding that would occur if you add impervious area, you need to kind of compensate for the additional runoff, and so the additional runoff is accommodated by storing water and releasing it slowly into the major drainage ways.

So the retention facilities are required.

Um the other thing I would say about drainage criteria is DEQ has upgraded requirements for minimum water quality and quantity over the last 10 years or so, and so the city has to enforce those.

So those are additional measures that are required to ensure that the development doesn't increase any risk of flooding.

Okay, thank you.

And um just uh one other comment I want to make too.

Um I served on the school board, I get the the troubling um part of your job is rezoning.

I rezon my own neighborhood, so I get how hard and difficult it would be.

But you have to make the right decisions.

I've had some great conversations with some current school board members.

I I really feel pretty confident that they are really looking pretty hard at some rezoning.

Um I know the closest elementary, not um not Hickory, but Butts Road, I believe it's 70 percent, if I'm not mistaken.

I think Blutroad Intermediate is also 70 percent, and and Vice Mayor, you nailed it, and I've been saying this for a while too.

Rezone before the first house is sold.

That way they know where they're gonna go.

Because, like these folks here, they expect their kid to go to the neighborhood that they bought into, and I respect that.

But that being said, sometimes you have to make the tough decisions.

I've rezoned my own neighborhood that I'd be full disclosure.

I believe part of that rezoning was rezoning Viridian and Berkshire to from Hickory Middle to Great Bridge, you know, because it was way of capacity.

So again, thank you.

Thank you all for coming out though.

Thank you.

Thank you, McCouncil.

Thank you, Councilman Bond.

If I have a motion from uh Councilman News, seconded by Councilman Whitaker for approval.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote.

And Madam Clerk, please record the vote.

Motion to approve PLN R E Z 2025-009 with proffers as presented is adopted by an eight to excuse me, a seven to two vote.

Thank you.

Next uh, PLN R E Z 2025-015, Great Hope Baptist Church.

Great Hope Baptist Church Corporation, applicant owner, Hoggard Your Associates Agency for conditional zoning with classification of approximately 14 acres from A1 AG B2 business and R15 residential to AC Assembly Center District.

The property is located at 1401 Battlefield Boulevard South in the Great Ridge Planning Area.

Planning Commission recommends approval with the proffers listed in the official agenda.

Mr.

McNamara, what's the planning staff's recommendation?

The proposed rezoning does not provide specificity to the intensity of future uses, which could lead to being an being an incompatible use and is not consistent with the 2050 Trails Plan that identifies a 10-foot wide separated multi-use path facility along Battlefield Wolvard South.

Staff therefore recommends denial.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

We have three speakers.

The first speaker is Jack Claude, representing Great Hope Baptist Church, followed by Vic Nichols.

Mr.

Claude will be allowed 10 minutes.

Vick Nichols will be allowed five.

Hello, how are y'all doing?

I'm Jack Claude with Harvard and Your Associates.

We're working on this project, and hopefully we'll be working on this project for a few more years.

Staff has helped us to get to where we are, and we expect they'll help us to get all the way through to fruition.

Um this church is has been in the city since 1962, I believe.

We're coming up on 65 years.

It's going strong, it's getting better and better all the time, and we'd like to hope that it'll make it for another 50 at least.

What we encountered when we were started to look at what we could do to improve this property and start making adjustments and upgrades, and the church is big into soccer.

The parking is needs some attention.

So we started looking at things we could do, and it occurred to us that through the years, however it happened, it's the site is multi-zoned.

It's got some residential zoning, it's got some agricultural zoning, it's it's got it's got a hodgepodge.

So the very first thing we're doing is what we're here for tonight, and we just would like to change the entire property to AC or all churches.

Um once we get that step behind us, then we're immediately going to go to site plan what we want to just phase one, step one, step two, step three of the improvements to the church.

The Mr.

McNamara was talking about our we're we're out of compliance a little bit with the uh the trails.

The only issue we have with the trails, and we I think it's just a timing thing.

So initially staff said, Hey, you got the trails, you got to put your trailer on your side, 10-foot trail.

We're like, Well, if we gotta do it, we gotta do it.

But in researching that particular trail, we noticed if we go through to the city's website, go to the um master transportation plan, the trail is shown on the other side of Battlefield Boulevard from us.

So then you step back and take a look, and it's like, all right.

Well, if we're looking at our front yard, and you look to the south, there's a couple of lots, there's a hardware store, then there's a few subdivisions, and none of them have the trail, they're not set up for the trail.

So it kind of backs up what the PF or what the master transportation plan says, the trail's going across the street.

You look across the street, vacant properties.

So we came back to planning and said, hey, we're we're seeing a discrepancy here.

We're not thinking the trail is really supposed to be on our side.

Um staff is saying, yeah, yeah, you're gonna get the trail's gonna be on your side.

Can you show me something?

And staff has yet to been able to provide that evidence.

Now we're not dead set against doing it if it's us.

We just don't want to provide the proper tonight that says we will put that 10-foot path on in our front yard.

We're more than happy.

We've got to go through site plan review.

When we go through site plan review, that gives us a whole nother year to to work this issue out and 5,000 other issues.

And so once we get to the end of site plan approval, if the path is ours, we're fine.

If the path is not, well, we're not.

And it's just a so-be-it sort of thing.

Um, we're more than happy to put in the sidewalk.

Um, we're more than happy to put in the path if it's indeed ours.

Um, we just haven't found any evidence to say it's supposed to be on our side of the street yet.

Um other than that, I think we're in great shape.

I think it's a simple little project, it's a re just as an easy rezoning to correct it.

Um if anybody needs any questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

Vic Nichols, representing self-speaking support, followed by John Godfrey.

Um I was taking a look over this, and I I did have a little bit of problem with the traffic analysis.

You know, it's amazing how you're gonna sit here and asked to foot the bill for all this other stuff, and then a traffic analysis on top of that.

I mean, this is the church.

We're we're not really talking huge deal here, and I guess we're also have a little bit of heartburn on it.

You know, for the most part, it was Grace Bridge Baptists that came in here, members, and said, We wanted in God, we trust on our vehicles, and it looks like that's gonna cost the city or it costs the city more than what these people are doing.

So, since there was such an easy go-through for them, why isn't the same thing for these people?

I mean, what's the problem, guys?

Rowley.

Thank you.

John Godfrey, representing Great Hope Baptist Church speaking in support.

Thank you, Mayor West, assistant mayor uh Ritter and Council members.

Uh, my name is John Godfrey, I'm the pastor of Grayville Baptist Church.

We've been in this process now for two years.

Um, what precipitated this is our church is growing, and our major problem at this point is parking.

And so we went to the city and said, Hey, we'd like to put a gravel parking lot down.

They said, Well, you can't put any type of impervious service down until you bring your property up to spec when it comes to the stormwater irrigation management.

So we immediately uh began a site plan.

Uh we did a uh topographical study on the flow of the water and started the process of getting a site plan which would allow us to have parking lots and a uh and a pond that would uh bring us up to speed.

It was at that point as we began that process.

We also began it with the uh planning committee that they said, well, you have to rezone before we can do any of this.

And so I was like, Oh, okay.

Then if that's what we have to do, then we'll rezone.

And that's when this this began uh the long process of them trying to attach all the proffers to our rezoning with a fear that we were gonna change our use.

Now we've been on this property since 1966.

We have no desire to change the use of the property, we just want to be a church and we want to service the people that God's giving to us, and uh, and so uh there is no possible we're not gonna or we have no plans to sell the property, have no plans to do anything but what we're doing, and we'd just like to be able to park more people and then eventually build a building uh to house them.

We can house the people we have right now with the with the buildings we have, and so after now this two-year process and really miscommunication, we finally had a meeting where they agreed to attach the proffers to systematically our building um stages through time, which we really appreciate, and I feel like they've done a great job.

The one that we were debating over was this idea of a 10-foot asphalt walking trail in the front of our property again.

As uh Hogard Year is is explained.

If you look to the left of our property, there's six residential lots, and then after that we have the Wood Woodford estates.

When Woodford Estates went in, all that was required of them was a uh sidewalk.

And then after Woodford Estates, you have East Coast Lawn and Garden.

So the six um residential properties in the East Coast Lawn and Garden, they don't have a sidewalk or a walking trail.

Then we have all the new projects that have gone in across from the Catholic Church.

Again, they have not put any of those in.

The only construction that has gone in south of us, the latest one was Tim Briggs' uh Briggs Funeral Home, and what was required of them was a sidewalk, and so we said we will gladly put in a sidewalk because that's what everyone else is doing, and then as well as the controversy on where it is on the 50-year plan, and that being that it's on the other side of the road.

What we don't want is this.

We don't want to put a 10-foot asphalt walking trail on our property that goes nowhere for 20 years when everyone else has sidewalks, and we have to wait 20 years for all of that to connect.

That's the problem.

We are gladly put a sidewalk in because that's what everyone else has in the city of Chesapeake in our area, and so that's what we agreed to.

That was all signed off on.

Uh, everyone was good on the same page.

Our signs went up on our lawns to start this process of coming before the councils, and then one of the staff members called us and said, We'd really like to switch that after we've already agreed on it.

And we said no, we just want to stick with the five five-foot sidewalk at this time.

And so obviously, as you know, it went before the planning commission committee and the path they approved it.

So that's where we are.

We're just trying to uh bring our property up the spec.

We understand that the planning committee wants to beautify Chesapeake, and we want to beautify Chesapeake and do our responsibility.

We just don't want to have an albatross of a 10 foot wide asphalt walking trail on front of our property when it's nowhere else in the city right now.

And it doesn't look like it's gonna be unless you imminent domain, the six residential homes and east coast lawn and garden to force that in.

Unless, like the city plan says, it's on the other side of the road, which would seem to be what it is.

So that's kind of where we are.

We appreciate your service to our city.

Thank you for letting us speak.

That concludes the speakers.

Thank you all.

We have a do we have a motion, please?

Move to approve.

Second.

Mr.

Whitaker, you move for approval, Dr.

Ward, second.

Any discussion?

Mr.

Whitaker.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um Mr.

McMackname, uh, exactly what can be done with the classification of AC with that land.

Because currently it is B1, I believe R 15 and A1, which is a huge hodgepodge of things you can and cannot do.

What separates what's the difference?

What can and cannot be done with AC versus what it currently is now?

Yeah, there's a number of uh uses that can be permitted uh by right with the assembly use uh as the title says.

So for example, religious organization schools is a permitted use.

Religious uses are a permitted use as you would expect.

Um there are a number of um other uh daycare uses that are permitted uses, um, schools and educational services are permitted uses in certain districts as well and in different aspects of this as well.

So there's a number of permitted uses that could come with a rezoning of this property, okay.

Thank you.

And uh uh Mr.

Claude.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Uh exactly what is the intent of this rezoning?

What is the what is the plan for this application?

Just to clear the property and to make the whole property AC designation, which again I've always called it all churches because it fits all churches perfectly.

Thank you.

Uh based on what other speakers had said here tonight um the area's growing.

Pastor Godfrey, uh yeah, I mean, since I believe my notes say 1963.

I heard in 1960s too.

I'm going to take your 1966, uh, but um my understanding is you have a growing church, and uh I am I am more than happy to support that.

Um, you know, I know there's a lot of things, a lot of trepidation that we have based on laws that were just passed in Richmond.

Uh I don't see how that has any bearing on uh a church body that's been there that long.

So I'm more than happy to support this.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh Councilman News.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

To uh, Madam City Attorney, I think Mr.

Whitaker is referring to some of the laws that were proposed in the general assembly about being able to develop by right apartments and things of that nature on designated AC properties.

Did that bill pass?

And if not, do you know where it is?

It did pass, and so technically that law would supersede any local zoning ordinance restriction we would place on this property.

Okay, so if we were to rezone this to AC, then the church could be technically permitted to build by right, multi- multifamily.

Multifamily on the property without any kind of council input.

Correct.

Are there any proffers or anything or things that stipulations the council can put in place to prevent that from happening if that's not the church's intent?

It's my opinion that we cannot, because of Dylan's rule.

You know, in Virginia, we have the state law supersedes local law.

And so we now have a statute that explicitly says that churches can have multifamily on their property as a by use of that property.

So even if we try to impose a legal or local restriction, the state law would supersede it.

Is there any other designations or can it be the property be broken up any other way to achieve the church's goal of being able to expand their parking lot without having the concern that the city may have about by right multi-use apartments without any city input?

I'll be candid.

I am not probably the correct question.

Okay, Mr.

McMahon's shaking his head.

So the the use of uh expanding the parking could be done right now without rezoning of the property, in particular if it was a hard surface.

So a lot of times when we're talking about additional parking that's required, if it's gonna be of an alternative parking service, that's when some type of council approval will be required.

But in this case, uh, you know, they do need a site plan, so it's an administrative review to look at stormwater issues and some of the other site issues, but uh there would be no rezoning that would be required to actually expand their parking on their site as it exists today with the existing zoning.

Okay, um, I guess to Mr.

Claude, then the intent I think that Mr.

Whitaker was trying to get to is it just to expand the parking?

Is there any intent to build multifamily use homes on the property given the new law the general assembly passed?

In all of our discussions as a team, we have never mentioned multifamily.

Have not contemplated it at all.

Um we have discussed parking expansions, we've talked about building expansions, we've talked about building upgrades, we've talked about soccer field relocation.

The only discussion we've had with regard to anybody sleeping there is two, I don't even know what you would call them, two facilities for when missionaries come back from overseas, they would be able to stay there rather than a hotel.

Um, and whether that's two or three, I wouldn't exp we had never discussed any more.

We had never discussed three, um, but no, we've never discussed multifamily, have not contemplated that at all.

Okay, I appreciate that.

I I'm supportive of your five foot sidewalk.

I I'm with you, Pastor, on I mean the sidewalk or multi-use path to nowhere.

I hear you on that.

We see that often throughout the city.

Um, but my concern is with the new General Assembly law that was passed that would allow as soon as we rezone this property to AC completely, legally, and you're you're saying you're not doing it, I believe you 100%, but legally you're then permitted to put up apartments on that property without the city having any input, um, any proffers to schools, any infrastructure input, anything or residential impact around you.

So that's what my concern is.

So what I would like to see happen, I may be the only one is for staff to work with you all to see if there is another way to achieve what you're wanting to achieve without having to rezone the entire property AC.

I think that will both protect the city's interest as well as further your goal with trying to get these um things and expansions completed on the property.

So I would make a substitute motion to continue the matter to have these conversations to then protect both the city's interest as well as get your project furthered the way you would like that to go.

Thank you.

We have a motion for continuing to second uh Vice Mayor, is there any discussion about the continuance?

I don't know, Mr.

McNamara.

Do you have a proposal as far as a date goes too?

As always, if we were gonna be making substantial changes, we'd recommend at least a sixty-day continuance, preferably at 90, but that is uh completely within your discretion.

I'm okay with 60 days.

Is that you're the second?

Well, I'd like yes, I'd like to ask um Mr.

Claude and Pastor Caffrey a couple questions, if I might.

Okay.

Um I hear what Ms.

Newins is saying.

It I believe that the law passed and signed uh about churches being able to build dwellings of any kind, the underlying zoning is not determinative.

You can do it on any zoning.

Yeah.

Right?

So it's not just the assembly center, but assembly center allows the church a great deal of freedom and discretion on how the property is developed and the uses.

And quite often, you will not have to come back to council for any uses that you may contemplate.

And that's part of the benefit and a wise choice for assembly center zoning.

I believe, although don't take my word for it, we'll have to get a nod or a head no from the city attorney.

If you can use a continuance time to develop a preliminary site plan, pardon me?

We already have ordinary site plan.

All right, well, it may expedite the process if you can.

Yes, ma'am, please.

Um, if you can put in the site plan for review, and a profit can be that you will develop in substantial conformance to the site plan, which could give everybody a feeling of confidence in what you've told us in your word.

Um, I learned I'm sorry I'm boring y'all tonight with all the things I've learned over 25 years, but unfortunately, unless something is written and it offered by the applicant and accepted by the council, not that we don't trust you all implicitly, but it done work, it has to be recorded.

I'm with you on the sidewalk thing, it does not I'm sorry, Mr.

McNamara, but doesn't seem realistic that we're gonna go in on all those different lots.

We're really supposed to be talking about the continuance.

Right.

Well, that but that's something that's been brought up and could be considered if it's continued, taking that burden off.

So I'm sorry.

So two years ago when we came asking for a parking lot.

If they'd have said that, we'd have been already building a parking lot.

They were the ones that said we had to get AC for rezoning.

They forced us to this point.

So we've been in this two years now, and the General Assembly, everybody was good with AC until the General Assembly does that.

And now we're gonna continue it, you're gonna continue this, and you're gonna force us to continue going.

Not because of something we did, but something the General Assembly did when they were the ones that told us AC rezoning is what we had to do, and we were following their their desire, and now you've switched.

Because we would have gone along and put in a parking lot, but when we came to them, they said we want you rezoned.

Now remember, there's a whole nother what was that?

What is the thing where there was a desire for the city to make all churches rezone to AC, which I believe is in litigation right now.

So this has been the design of the planning for churches to rezone to AC.

We were following what they told us to do, and now we want to do the bait and switch and say no.

Well, I don't think we're saying no, sir.

I think, and that's the very first thing I've heard.

I don't believe there's any city policy or push for every church to rezone to assembly center.

That was a different.

Okay, maybe I was.

I'm sorry, it was a different what?

Something different.

Okay, well, see, there's where problems come up.

Sure.

Our city has never done that.

Whatever your negotiations were with the department were there.

I'm just saying for people who may want to clear this up, you're gonna be how long in site plan review, Mr.

Claude?

Fifteen months.

Okay, so the the 30 or 60 days, I'm not sure would be harmful to give the council uh, we'd love to support this.

You have a great church, you're growing.

You may want to grow your school.

You may want to, you know, do a lot of growth there and we'd like to help you do that but if this can satisfy everyone that the use is gonna be what is within the scope of a the um assembly center zoning I you know if you could see your way clear to do that I at least I would sure appreciate so just so I understand though according to the city attorney doesn't matter which zoning we do the state law trumps even this question.

Well it may but if we have a proffer and I'm not sure uh what the court test would be but if we have a proffer to the effect that you will build in substantial conformance to your approved site plan or the preliminary plan in the report that I I don't know Miss Lindley am I just howling at the moon or something no I think that the council has raised a couple issues one of them is the potential impact of the litigation which I think litigation or not the litigation pardon me the legislation the bill that's going to be out there whether this property stays at its current zoning or if it is rezoned.

So that just is a factor that exists I think the statute says it's going to be effective as of January 1 of next year and say effective through 2031 that that legislation is out there.

The other issues the councils are raising is that you know when you have a rezoning typically staff needs to know what is going to be proposed so it can assess impacts you're on a busy intersection and in this case you aren't really proposing anything so staff can't really mitigate impacts and so that's why they kind of feel like they were not able to adequately I guess mitigate what impacts may be there because we don't have a plan of what will be there.

And so that's kind of the bundle of issues I've been hearing were discussed by the council this evening.

So that you know the decision is certainly yours but this is uh opening the door to um facilitating the process and giving comfort to everyone I apologize I you know and it's certainly up to you to say yay or nay.

Gotcha thank you so let me give you a little bit of background of where we went through this process.

We came down talking about side I'm sorry yeah we're talking about the we got a continuance we're not asking it to speak to the to the continuance this is for council's decision whether you wish it or have it or not have it is is not up for debate.

And I'm not looking to debate I'm just asking the question is we had submitted a preliminary as you had discussed before and it got reviewed ad nauseum and we ended up pulling that preliminary.

So we have a preliminary Harker Your as you all are aware is capable of preparing those if we just turn that back on do we need a full 90 days to oh we weren't asking for 90 well we asked for 60 but is it would it be possible to be any less than 60 the uh proffer review process is pretty extensive so when we're talking about submission of new proffers we essentially have uh basically a week turnaround if you're going for a 30 day continuance so typically if we're looking for larger issues to be addressed with those proffers they do typically take a little bit longer than then so the motion sir is for 60 days.

Thank you we do have a motion to continue this item for 60 days a lot of discussion your lights on what's the case your lights oh sorry uh councilman bond yeah I'm a little bit lost Pastor Goffrey is your is your goal right now is to have a parking lot yes so can he not build a parking lot can he have a park lot now without waiting 60 days uh the applicant the he may submit a site plan for review and staff is available to meet with him next week okay that's fine I just wish I could have done it two years ago but they said I couldn't.

We do have a motion uh for continuous sixty days and that proposed please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record.

Yes.

Didn't I vote?

Yeah, she got it.

I've got everybody's on.

Can you see the board?

I'm sorry, I just have to stand up.

The motion to continue for sixty days to the August 18th city council meeting passes by six or three vote.

Next item, please.

PLN Use 2025-034, Bedford Contractor Storage Yard, Bedford Street LLC, applicant owner, Civil Engineering and Construction Services Agency for a conditional use permit for a contractor storage yard.

The property is located at 1032 Bedford Street in the Southern Chesapeake planning area.

Planning Commission recommends denial.

Thank you.

Mr.

McMahon, would you please?

The proposed conditional use is consistent with the conference of plan policies for the Fentress Airfield Overlay District governing land use in close proximity to military operations as the devoids intensifying residential density and incorporates appropriate mitigation measures to reduce potential land use conflicts and is also compliant with the terms and restrictions set forth in the recorded grant of easement.

Staff therefore recommends approval with stipulations dated April 16th, 2026.

Thank you.

Do we have any speakers?

Yes, sir.

We have 14 speakers.

The applicant agent will receive seven minutes each, and the remaining speakers will be allowed three minutes each.

And if I could just ask the speakers if an item is or an argument is made by two people, and you have the same argument or the same points.

Uh please just agree with the person.

You can just do it from your seat so we can get through this a little faster.

Thank you very much.

Please call the speakers.

Last year, the owner received a notice of violation which brought the lot to light that the conditional use permit was required for this use.

The proposed use is compatible with the Finterest Airfield Overlay District.

As part of the review process, the Navy has evaluated the application and issued a compliant compatibility letter confirming that the use is acceptable within the overlay area.

In addition, this is a relatively low intensity operation.

This site will not generate substantial truck traffic throughout the day, retail activity, or regular customer visit.

Vehicle trips are expected primarily during the early morning hours and late afternoon.

Under normal condition, no more than eight vehicles are anticipated to visit the site daily.

Given the this limited level of activity, the projected traffic volume is not expected to alter existing roadway conditions or create significant impact on the surrounding rural transportation network.

The conditional use permit will ensure compliance with the required development required development standard.

The lay-down yard will maintain the required setback, including 150 feet from the city right of way, additional 30 feet from the side and rear line of the property.

In addition, the entire lay-down area will be uh fenced with a privacy fence, and a landscape buffer will be installed along the uh Bedford Street in uh frontage.

Um the proposed use is not anticipated to generate any greater noise, glare, or visual impact than other uses currently permitted with the A1 agriculture district.

For those reasons, we respectfully request your approval of this conditional use permit.

We believe it represents a reasonable and compatible use of the property while bringing a long-standing operation into compliance with city requirement.

Thank you for your time, and I'll stand by to answer any question.

Thank you, sir.

Next speaker, Lynn Kepper speaking in opposition, followed by Clifton Slipe.

Good evening, Mayor West and Vice Mayor Ritter and members of council.

Before I go into what I had prepared to say, I want to add a little bit to what Mr.

Brocky just said.

He said they've been operating it as a lay down yard since 2010.

That's not exactly right.

Um, well, let me rephrase that.

A much smaller lay-down yard, if indeed it was a lay-down yard.

Uh it wasn't until the current tenant came into that site about four years ago that activity exploded back there.

Uh SIP actually operated his business in Greenbar Industrial Park until 2021.

So any activity back there from 2010 to say 2024 was very limited.

Okay, now what I have to say, appreciate that planning commission not only uh voted to deny, but they also, many of them, most of them I think actually made a trip back there and and uh looked to see what we had.

There does seem to be a disconnect between planning staff with what they think is going on back there and what really is going on back there.

So I uh went through their notes uh and have a few notes of my own.

Says uses in this district are primarily agriculture and supporting uses as well as very low density residential, but can accommodate some industrial and commercial uses that are compatible.

Well, we have some industrial back there and some commercial already.

Those of us that live back there think that we have plenty.

Once the three use permits that have already been issued move in, we're gonna have more than plenty.

And if you uh approve this one tonight, we're gonna have a lot more than plenty.

Apparently, council agrees with us because a month or so ago, you had a police officer back there with radar at the end of Blue Ridge Road.

I won't tell you how I know that, but anyway.

Uh but he said to me, he said to somebody, that uh the reason he was there was because the neighbors had complained that there's a nursery on Bedford Street, which I'm all too familiar with, and that it had created a much more traffic than those roads were designed to carry.

A lot of that was heavy duty traffic, and because of that, council, you guys had uh instructed the police department to set radar up there to slow them down.

Of course, that is good to slow them down, but it doesn't eliminate them.

Moving on.

Connectivity and infrastructure.

The proposed contractor storage yard is located along rural roadways characterized by low traffic volumes and limited development intensity.

Bedford and Maxville combined is about two miles in length.

About a quarter mile of that is waste.

Oh, am I done already?

I got a lot more to say if you want to hear later.

Clifton Stipe is here for questions only, followed by Linda Miller.

Linda is speaking in opposition, representing Bedford Maxwell neighborhood, followed by Martin Horton.

I don't know how it's Mr.

Mayor and Madam Vice Mayor and Council members.

My name is Linda Miller.

I live at 953 Bedford Street.

Family changed.

Now, in place of a new home, we saw this beautiful property that had been partially cleared for that home become a place where more large trucks and industrial clearing equipment had become yet another eyesore.

There's a mountain of dirt from an undisclosed location on this site.

We depend on our well water back there and have concerns about the water issues.

Most businesses on Bedford Street are those of the homeowners on Bedford.

Respect for our neighbors keep businesses from becoming trashy and eyesores and noise levels are kept at a minimum.

The spiritual values keep businesses from being open or doing business on Sunday.

In the past few weeks, there was a convocation of bald eagles that landed in the field next to me.

And in this bald and golden eagle protection act, and I quote, a major point of this act includes disturbing by interfering with normal breeding, feeding, or sheltering behavior.

It's a violation that can result in a $200,000 fine, or and or imprisonment.

So has an environmental study, impact study been done for this area.

Well, Mr.

Saipe is a friend to many, the plans presented for the property are disappointing to say the least.

Please, please help us maintain a place where nature can thrive and be protected.

Vehicular safety can be assured, but most of all, where traditional values can be embraced, maintained, and enjoyed.

We ask with respect to this council and in great humility, please deny the use permit presented.

Thank you.

Martin Holton speaking in support, followed by Robin Hirschberger.

Mayor West, Vice Mayor Critter, Distinguished Council.

My name is Martin Holton.

I live at 2105 Benefit Road.

I'm a lifelong residence of uh just speak.

Uh uh Mr.

Site has been uh since 2010, give or take a day, has utilized that property along with when I came aboard along for a lay down yard.

We had no complaints from the uh surrounding neighbors, and about six or months ago, we were informed that we need a use permit.

So at that time we did said, okay, well, we we need to get a use permit, so we did.

So then at that time we started a process, and then we met with the uh neighbors, and uh, we were we we were a little disappointed.

We didn't think that we would have any opposition, and they said that uh if we were actually uh a resident in that area that they would probably be less uh uh have opposition against us on the use permit, but that uh that being as it is, we're here tonight.

The uh and then we had a uh as far as the dirt goes, that's not any contaminated dirt.

That's just dirt that's brunging off construction job, and it'll go in and out as we need it for the city.

That lay down yard is essential.

The Teacot area is set up that that piece of property is the only use that you can do at this point is M1.

No other use port that you can use is M1.

So that's why that's where we'd honestly like to stay there.

The uh so went back and they asked us to have another meeting.

We went back and had another meeting with uh with the neighbors, and it would it didn't yield anything different than what uh first meeting did.

But to the the biggest thing that I have is that their biggest complaint was on other properties rather than our property, and I can see that.

I can see that there's other properties that has more traffic going in and going out than ours, but I would hope that we wouldn't be penalized for that.

So I would ask for y'all to uh approve our conditional use permit, and uh I'll be here for any other uh questions that you need.

Thank you very much.

Robin Hirschberger representing self speaking in opposition, followed by Keith Miller.

Good evening, and thanks for allowing me to uh take part here this evening.

My name is Robin Hirschbruger.

I live at 932 Beaver Dam Road, and so I want to uh explain why uh I'm in opposition to that property.

Uh I have two children that live on Bedford Street, uh a son and a daughter.

My daughter has two uh three children, uh approximately uh two months old, a two-year-old, and a four-year-old that live right there on Bedford Street.

And I've traveled Bedford Street for 30 plus years, so I'm quite familiar with the area, and so that's where my connection is to that place.

Uh so I know the street well.

Bedford Street is a narrow winding country road that is narrow, is so narrow it doesn't have road uh stripes on it.

Not on the uh sides of it, not in the center, because it's that narrow.

When I say that, we're talking uh about this property, and it brings in big pieces of equipment like construction equipment, oversized uh trailers that carry construction equipment, dump trucks that come in, have come in there evidently quite often loaded because there is piles of dirt that are there that did not originate on that property.

So that's what is in play there with the road because I have family there, I have children there, I have grandchildren that are there on that property, and these trucks are a menace.

Uh, not just his trucks, but trucks in general, and uh what is happening there uh is that the area began as a farming uh area, a farming road, and it's becoming uh at least some people hope that it becomes an industrial area, and uh we don't want that.

Um talking about the property there, uh, and in addition to the big piles of dirt that did not originate there, at least I don't think so, because I drive past there every morning and every evening on an average five-day week.

Um, there appears to be something going on with the dirt there because there's a big pile of dirt that is there or big piles of dirt there, and it appears there's soil sifting of some kind, and I say appears because uh that's what it appears to me as I watch the process happening uh that are going.

What that means is that dump truck loads of dirt came down that small narrow road that doesn't have stripes on the sides or the center.

And I just I emphasize that just simply because that tells me, and I hope it tells you that the roads are narrow.

And so when my family lives on that road, it is very concerning to me a dad and a granddad of children and uh a son and a daughter and a son-in-law, with those child, excuse me, children that live there.

Uh that's all that I have.

I'm sorry, I ran out of time.

Thank you.

Keith Miller, representing citizens of Bedford and Maxwell Street, speaking in opposition, followed by Dale Keffer.

Good evening, Council members.

My name is Keith Miller from 821 Bedford Street.

And allow me a two-minute summary of sort of the big picture.

In recent years, we've seen our community being industrialized one use permit at a time, bringing a steady increase of semi-trucks, dump trucks, pickup size trucks and trailers, and traffics of all types moving through the neighborhood.

It's already been mentioned these are narrow streets, older streets that were never designed for heavy industrial equipment.

Trucks struggle to pass each other and often forced off the pavement.

Mailboxes are regularly damaged, and the roads deteriorate rapidly, leaving them in a constant state of repair.

Even more important are the safety concerns.

A few years ago, right in front of my own house, I saw a truck uh clip a boy on his bicycle, a semi-truck, and he suffered a broken ankle.

More recently, a mother pushing a stroller was nearly hit by a truck by a distracted driver.

Just two examples that it's more than just inconvenience, it's also a safety hazard, especially for families with young children.

Additionally, ingress and egress at both ends is narrow and woefully inadequate for industrial sized vehicles.

At Maxwell and Mount Pleasant, they cannot make turns without taking up both lanes, often causing Mount Pleasant Road traffic to stop in order to allow egress.

Beyond safety, this proposal and others just like it are changing the character of our neighborhood.

What was once a quiet residential community is becoming increasingly defined by diesel noise, heavy equipment, and exhaust fumes.

Residents who've invested their lives there are seeing the quality of life steadily erode with each new project, decreasing property values and adding strain on infrastructure that was never designed for such intensive use.

We are not opposed to growth, but we're asking that you keep high impact industrial activity in areas zoned and designed to accommodate it rather than having it compete with a residential community where families walk, cycle, and raise their children.

So we respectfully ask that you deny this use permit due to incompatibility and inadequate infrastructure.

Thank you for your time.

Dale Keith first, representing South speaking in opposition, followed by Gerald Miller.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor.

How about now?

How about there?

There you are.

My name is Dale Kevin, I reside at 620 Saddle Horn Drive, Chesapeake, Virginia, commenting in opposition to the proposed development of 1032 Bedford Street.

I grew up on the corner of Maxwell Street and Bedford Street in the community affected by the proposed development of more property within the community.

I have a vested interest in what happens in the community since my wife and I own 47 acres at 803 Bedford Street.

The community on this stretch of road was established over a hundred years ago.

It was and is truly an idyllic setting for children to grow up in.

We all went to the same church, the same school, and still today remain strong friends with each other.

Many of us are kinfolk with succeeding generations still calling this community home.

To travel up and down Bedford and Maxwell Street is like driving up and down the country roads and byways of Amish Country in Ohio and Pennsylvania, where there are farms and residential tracks as well as family-owned businesses.

These family-owned businesses have been a part of the community because we are community and have deep roots and involvements with each other.

This is a totally different scenario entirely than to have a commercial enterprise devoid of any community connection or involvement that would encompass nine acres and increase the heavy truck traffic on this narrow country road, causing the residents to have great difficulty maintaining the historic community atmosphere.

Gone will be the ability of the 22 youngsters of Bedford Street to be able to safely walk or ride their bikes up and down the road, as well as young mothers pushing toddlers up and down the road in strollers.

The narrow and instable road through the community is not suitable for that much traffic and will not hold up under it.

The pavement on the southwestern end of Bedford Street has been replaced a number of times over the past few years because it hasn't held up.

And on the other end of the community, the shoulders of Maxwell Street are sinking under the current traffic load.

While the argument about the inability for the road to carry more heavy truck traffic is valid, that is not the damage I am most concerned about.

I am concerned about little boys and girls whose lives will be impacted if this project is allowed to move forward.

I'm not asking anyone to create an idolatry community for the benefit of my descendants.

I am asking that corporate greed not be allowed to rape this community and take away something that has been over 100 years in the making and can never be restored once it has been overrun.

When it's all said and done, we will be the ones left to deal with the damage inflicted on the community.

For the sake of 22 little boys and girls, I am asking that you deny this project.

Thank you.

Gerald Miller, representing self speaking in opposition, followed by Zekia.

Hazekia Domouski.

Thank you.

Doug Garnan.

Citizen for questions only, speaking in opposition.

Followed by Michael Topeka.

Good evening.

Thanks for uh giving me the giving us the opportunity to be heard.

My name is Doug Garnand.

I live at 505 Maxwell Street.

I'm speaking today, not just as a homeowner, but a father, a grandfather, and as a neighbor who truly loves this community.

For so many of us, this street isn't just where we live, it's where life happens.

It's where our kids learn to ride bikes, where we walk our dogs, where we wave and talk to each other daily.

It's a place chosen because it felt safe, it felt steady, felt like home.

That's why the changes we've seen over the years have been so hard.

What used to be a quiet, peaceful road slowly turning into a cut through filled with fast-moving cars, employee traffic and commercial commercial vehicles that were never meant to be to use a neighborhood street like this.

And I'll be honest, it's scary and scary watching children try to cross the road.

Hearing cars rush past speeds this little street can't handle.

It's scary wondering what things will look like even if more commercial activity is added atop of what is already too much.

We're not against business.

We understand growth, we understand people need to make a living, but our homes, our families, can't be the price.

We've seen what one large business brought in, and another large business has already proved to build be built here.

For a small narrow street like ours, this is overwhelming and it's getting worse.

There are plenty of parts of this city that are built for this kind of development.

Roads designed for heavy traffic, areas intended for growth, places where businesses can thrive without threatening the safety and peace of long-established neighborhood.

But this street, our street, is not one of them.

We just want to want to keep the promise this neighborhood once gave.

A safe, quiet place to raise our children, and to watch our grandchildren grow.

Thank you.

Michael Topeka, resident speaking in opposition, followed by Shelby Topeka.

Good evening.

My name is Michael Topeka.

And my family and I live at 505 Maxwell Street.

In interest of time, I will skip over a few points that I concur with the others who are also in opposition.

However, like I said, I think others have already mentioned a lot of key points, so I want to focus on how the Chesapeake 2045 comprehensive plan supports this community's request to deny the conditional use permit.

Although I've not had a chance to digest all the 391 pages of the document, what I have read so far has been encouraging, and as you are all aware, much more than I am, our community falls under the rural overlay district and the Finterest Planning District.

What I noticed when I read over the vision of the rural overlay district, was it a noted in the was it noted that it includes active farming operations, very low density housing, potential for various housing methods without affecting rural operations, etc.

In my opinion, the existing community already fits this vision perfectly.

And any additional industrial development of the Bedford Maxwell community erodes this vision.

Secondly, the section on the Fentrest Planning District does mention potential for commercial or industrial use.

But based on the wording and the location of this mention, it is of the lowest priority.

When the Fentrest Planning District section details the potential commercial and industrial uses, it specifies, quote, uses that are compatible with rural infrastructure and aesthetic.

If you've driven down Maxwell or Bedwell, Maxwell or Bedford Street and passed by any vehicle larger than a Prius, you would know firsthand that most industrial use, especially the trucks that will be coming in and out of this proposed contract or storage yard, are not compatible with the rural infrastructure of this community.

The other point I would like to bring up is the precedent set by this decision.

As others have mentioned, there have already been other approved cases.

So although there's already been some industrial and commercial development of the community, if we continue to do so, it will eventually lead to death by a thousand paper cuts of the community that's been described so well by others.

Please take this into consideration in your vote this evening.

Thank you for your time.

Shelby Topeka, resident speaking in opposition, followed by Mor Morgan Delagrange.

Okay, sorry.

Hi everyone, my name is Shelby Topeka, and I live at 505 Maxwell Street, and I've lived there since I was 13 years old.

I'm gonna skip the sentimental stuff for time.

Um, hurry, I promise.

Um I have felt such fierce love from this community and protectiveness, and you know, this was my little diaper runaround station growing up.

I wanted to come back, I moved away, I met him, and we moved away for like 10 years, and we just so fiercely wanted to come back.

We like spent every penny we had to come back here.

Um, I want that for my children.

My request is that you keep the agricultural zoning and deny this use permit.

Um, I'm skipping all this.

It was a very organized speech at one point, but um my biggest concern is safety.

As people have pointed out, the 22 young children living around 35 miles per hour is the speed limit, and that seems so fast.

Like sometimes I test it just to see, and I'm like people go 10 over naturally, so that's like 45.

I don't see how that could ever be.

It's it's horrifying to me.

Um, you know, there's like cars park in the driveway.

One ball like rolls out past a car, and it's just like catastrophic for a child who just forgets at one single second not to look both ways, right?

Um, so this use permit, because I'm gonna try to not focus on other businesses that we know are creating all of the traffic and everything.

But this use permit, I believe in the last council meeting they said it would be eight vehicles.

Um, what business does not want their business to grow?

That would be that would be crazy, right?

You know, they want businesses to grow and they want to have more things, and I believe Vice Mayor Ritter pointed out earlier about the church thing, like you know, if it's not there's no way that you can like take someone's word for it, I guess.

Um I don't know if that's exactly how you said it.

Okay, good.

Um it's like unless it's in writing eight cars only, then we're screwed if something happens in the future, right?

Um anyway, oh fun fact sixty-six percent of people have admitted to texting and driving.

Imagine the people who haven't admitted it.

So that's like what night a hundred percent of people.

Um, about to drive 50 miles per hour through our street.

Um anyway, another thing I'd like to point out we don't have anything against Mr.

Syper, Mr.

Holden.

Mr.

Sipes' daughter is one of my closest friends, um, just recently within our church.

She's they're fantastic.

We don't have anything against them.

We just want to preserve because it is so scary that um other businesses will see this one thing be turned over, I guess, and then other businesses will be like, hey, they don't actually, you know, all we have to do is a use permit, and then we can kick the agricultural zoning and do whatever we want.

It's just my anxiety brain running it through my head, but we don't have anything against them.

Um we just we want to keep the precedent that this is for agriculture and we can't just do a use permit and then change it.

You know, it's agriculture for a reason, like people have pointed out, the streets can't handle it.

Like I said, this used to be a um oh, and another thing I wish I had okay.

Sorry.

Bye.

Thank you.

Okay, Morgan Delagrange.

Thank you.

That concludes the speakers, Mayor.

Thank you very much, and thank all your speakers for being here tonight.

It was entertaining.

That's one word.

As well as informative.

At this time, I'd like to ask for a motion with stipulations.

Mr.

Whitaker.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, to get to get questions, I am going to make a motion to approve with stipulations.

Thank you.

We have a second.

Mr.

Jeffreys.

A second.

Thank you.

Mr.

Redaker.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um tonight I think we see what community really is.

We've seen this time and time again uh earlier uh with the folks from Viridian, and again tonight.

And I gotta say, you folks do some long emails, some very long emails.

I heard that the the roads were not uh wide, and I live on Ballahack, so I live on a uh curvy country road with farm equipment and uh 18 wheelers and all kinds of stuff uh and make no mistake at seven o'clock in the morning.

There's a traffic jam in front of my house from the Northwest annex.

So I understand what you're talking about, wholeheartedly.

To the point where I got a tape measure.

I measured how wide my road was 20 foot wide.

So when I went to your neighborhood, I measured your road at the most narrow point.

I've seen where it was eighteen foot.

Um, I'm from the south, it's eighteen foot.

Anyway, so but thank you, Ms.

Thank you, Mr.

Ritter.

Uh but I went out there I spent an hour and a half out there today.

Not to mention, I think the first email I received was probably when the notice of violation was issued.

And I got up min many months, many months ago.

And um uh and so then I drove through Bedford, and of course I I go to Berge's all the time.

I mean, you can't go out there and not get a burgess.

Um best milkshake in the state of Virginia.

Um but anyway, so uh uh what I noticed, what I noticed by going on the property.

I noticed one, the next door neighbor, the gentleman that lives just next door is not here tonight.

I also noticed a lot of other businesses, and and what was most alarming to me, the vast majority of traffic I saw was coming from uh uh 1055 Bedford Street, which was Robin's landscaping, and it was a lot, it was a lot.

So if it be the will of the council, I would like to potentially not just uh make a motion to approve, but possibly attach uh a stipulation, directing all traffic to go away from your community back towards Blue Ridge Road.

And and if and if it could be done, potentially send all the traffic from Robin's landscaping to go that way too.

That protects your interest.

We can still promote business in the city of Chesapeake, uh, which I'm a business owner, so I mean, I want to do what I can to help promote businesses.

Um, but anyway, that being said, uh that that's all I gotta say.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Whitaker.

Any other speakers?

Mr.

Jeffries.

Yes, sir.

Uh I also spent some time at Bedford uh this weekend.

I went out on Saturday and Sunday uh just to drive the roads, get a feel for the width of the roads.

Uh I was familiar with the area, but not uh well enough to render an opinion based on the overwhelming uh contact that we receive via email and and phone calls and in my travels out there.

I was also surprised that there were over a dozen businesses in that area.

I had no idea that the area contained that many businesses.

So my concerns tonight in evaluating uh this vote is that I'm not sure that uh the business that's before us is responsible for the problems that are being described.

So I don't know that a denial would alleviate the problem.

Um I can't think that one business is producing the overwhelming traffic when there's 13 uh in that area.

Um so that I'm sorry.

So that's my that's my concern tonight.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Councilman Smith.

Yes, thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I also visited the site yesterday.

Uh I received several emails as well regarding the problem as it was shared.

And as a result of going yesterday, I saw the housing to where the housing, the majority of the housing was past the businesses.

So coming in, I think you come to the store's yard first, and then several other businesses, and then the majority of the homes.

So it would affect you to a certain extent coming in in the curve, but once you get past the curve and go into this complex as far as the yard, you will have no more problems with the rest of the property going back towards a residency.

If it was a new business coming in, I would support your cause as far as adding to the situation or the problem.

But because they were there since 2010, they were already there utilizing that property, and the only change is that city the city got on them as far as being up to code, but now that they're up to code, we should not be trying to get rid of that business that's already in existence.

And that's my only situation there that I have a problem with.

That's why I would support the business being there because they were already there, and we should make that allowance for the one that was already there, but you as a community going forward should be trying to prevent future businesses from coming in.

That's that's my point.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Okay.

Vice Mayor Ritter.

Okay.

Okay.

Uh thank you.

It this is a relatively difficult thing to sort through, probably for me more than most people, because this is where I live.

I don't live on Bedford, but I live within a mile.

Um I will not identify, but I'll give a little bit of a wave where you don't know where I'm waving to one of my neighbors who I know won't be upset with my next comment.

Yeah.

The Fentress Overlay District was designed to have people who had sold their development rights to the Navy in the 70s, and wanted to make a different use or a better use of their property other than farmland.

That's a decision they can all try.

I mean, I'm not going to ask you to come down, but to miss there are a lot of millers here.

I'm not sure, Merlin, that you had to get a use permit when your business was, you did.

Okay, I that was just right after we moved here.

But I'm awfully familiar with it.

I also know Mr.

Holton.

I find him to be a great businessman and somebody you can depend on and always a man of his word.

So it makes it difficult.

I think our area was doomed when the solar facility was approved.

500 acres of farmland totally devastated, not kept up by Dominion, trees have died, no upkeep of the property, and it exacerbates the issues.

So Blue Ridge Road in that section was pretty much totally destroyed by the construction traffic.

And I normally am an early riser, and so it I don't want to call out something by name, but a nursery and landscape service is not there, not operating there, it's a mulch yard, and they have use permit restrictions, and they can't start business till 7 a.m.

Except I'm making coffee at 6 a.m.

and the trucks are running up and down Blue Ridge Road, and 35 miles an hour, uh speed limit around us is 25, and people go 60.

So we had a discussion tonight at council about notice signs for people, future roadway home, no through trucks, all these signs that people want, you know what?

People don't even follow a speed limit sign, so you know they're kind of useless.

So going around this, this is why it's difficult for me.

The Fentress Overlay District was designed to have people maximize the use of their property when they could not develop it under the Navy regulations.

I think the world of Mr.

Holton.

I do note though that this was a business operating without the use permit, and I think we need to take a look at the Fentress Overlay district.

Um my streets 18 feet wide, and I get it, um, but I'm gonna tell you take your life in your hands, driving on Blue Ridge on Bedford, and you know, I appreciate Mr.

Wicker's comment about making it a right in right out.

I mean, I get that, that sends everything up by where I live.

But easy for him to say, right?

But honestly, going left out towards out Bedford to Maxwell, Maxwell and Um Mount Pleasant is one of the most dangerous intersections in the city.

Barely a month goes by that there isn't a significant serious accident there.

Um, so when I spoke to Mr.

Barockey and we walked through it, I thought this probably would be an easy decision for me.

But when I did get an opportunity to read my backup material, flatbed and dump trucks, and more storage of pipes and gravel and lumber and similar materials, just seems like a lot.

And I hope we'll take a look at the overlay district and take a look at some of these streets that really are agricultural, they could support some small businesses, depending on the use and the amount of property, but I think it's time we take a look at that because this is an established residential and rural area.

So thank you all.

Um, and whatever consideration you make, I understand, but it's it's pretty burdensome being down there, and I I'm I'm sure people saw me on that walker.

I'm not able to drive yet.

I don't have a lot of confidence getting out of my driveway and down to the stoplight at Blue Ridge.

You know, the the trucks are big, the roads are narrow, and it's not the safest place to drive.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Councilman Bunn.

Thank you, Mayor West.

Um, and thank you all for coming out and speaking tonight.

Um, one question I want to ask though, one of the speakers talked about the speed limit being 35.

Um the city council, how do we can we lower it to 25 or how's that established?

Does anybody know?

Is it 35?

So I'll take a shot and we can get a uh more thorough answer for you.

But um speed limits if you want to change the uh a speed, generally you have to do a speed study.

And and generally speaking, the result is whatever 85% of people are doing on a road is what VDOT will say should be the speed limit, unless there's some other safety consideration.

And as speakers noted, um, and we often find when we do these speed limit studies, the uh recommended speed is higher than the posted speed because that's what most people are doing.

So if it's if it's the design, and I will get you a more thorough answer on that, but if it's a desire of council, we could do a speed limit study.

I just that that's probably the likely outcome.

And we don't have to raise the speed limit if that's what's suggested.

But generally speaking, that's that's what we find in those studies.

I'm thinking nobody is considering raising the Mr.

Manager.

Are there any uh is it feasible to look at any other road improvements uh on Bedford?

Yeah, we can have staff evaluate the existing conditions of Bedford, take a look at the exit the existing and any proposed development and then make recommendations.

It does seem like uh a good idea in on that street with neighbors and and having business and so forth.

It has uh had a good intentions, but it's sort of gotten out of hand in terms of we heard from a lot of folks who are worried about their children on the street and that kind of thing.

So if we could do something for that.

The point I want to make is I I heard several speakers say if we've approved this and we're opening the door for other uh other businesses to do the same.

And I agree with council member Smith.

Uh I don't believe there's not anybody on this council who would vote to approve an additional uh business on Bedford Street after having seen this incident.

But it does seem to me to be unfair.

It is unfair to point to one business when there are other businesses there creating the problem as well.

So for that reason I will uh support the the request, but uh again, I do want to appreciate you all being out there.

Dr.

Ward, so you have your light on, yeah.

Just briefly, Mr.

Mayor says we did uh talk about it, people brought up the speed limit and of course 35.

So, but is it possible for us because there are uh so many concerns about safety?

Uh, is it possible to have even perhaps the, you know, kind of like the speed, I won't say cameras, but to just warn people how fast they are going to monitor.

Is that something that could since there are a lot of businesses on vehicle and a lot of homes and a lot of children?

Is that even possible?

I know we had to work together in some of our areas that are even more populated.

You know, just uh a flashing light, letting you know that you're going over the speed limit.

Perhaps they can help without being a terrible expense to Mercedes, I guess, traffic engineering.

Could that possibly happen?

Yes, ma'am.

We can have police and public works work together to to evaluate the existing conditions, what's going on, and make any recommendations.

Councilman, thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Mayor.

Mr.

Manager, there's a number of complaints that were brought up about, and I think Vice Mayor Ritter touched on this a little bit about some other businesses in the activity that they're doing, and that it may be outside their conditional use permits.

Can we have staff follow up on that and potentially start an investigation to look into those to see if there are violations and take the appropriate action to get those deceased?

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

We do have a motion to approve by Councilman Whitaker, second by Councilman Jeffries.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record Madam Clerk.

Motion to approve PLN use 2025-034 with stipulations as presented is adopted by an 8 to 1 vote.

Thank you.

Please present the next item.

PLN use 2025-04A Greenbar Costco.

1401 Greenbar Parkway LLC, applicant owner, civil engineering and construction services agency for a conditional use permit to construct and operate a motor vehicle fuel supply station and a motor vehicle services center in association with the proposed Costco.

The property is located at 1401 Greenbar Parkway, 1712 Ring Road in the Greenborough Planning Area.

Planning Commission recommends approval with the stipulations listed in the official agenda.

Thank you.

Mr.

McNamara.

As stipulated, the proposed use is consistent with the economic goals of the 2045 conference plan, has the potential to further development of the Greenborough Mall site in conformance with the Greenbrier Area Plan and provides a unique economic use to the city.

The staff therefore recommends approval with stipulations dated April 20th, 2026.

Thank you.

Do we have any speakers on this item?

Yes, sir.

We have Sam Baraki representing Greenbrier Parkway LLC, followed by Vic Nichols.

How many speakers do we have?

Three.

Thank you.

That's two of the three.

Yes, easy.

That was a long run.

Good evening again.

Um Mayor West, Vice Mayor Ritter, Council members, and staff.

My name is Sam Baracki.

Business Address is 300 Cedar Lakes Drive in Chesapeake.

Tonight I am representing an application for a conditional use permit to allow tire installation facility and gas fueling station as part of the proposed Costco development in Greenbrier.

Since the initial submittal, we have worked closely with city staff to refine and improve the overall site layout.

Most notably, the gas fueling station has been relocated to better to the area shown on the preliminary site plan.

This change better enhance aesthetic of the development, improve pedestrian circulation and workability, and more closely align the project with the goal and vision established in the Greenbrier area plan.

The project represents far more than a retail development.

It's intended to serve as an anchor and catalyst for the future redevelopment of Greenbrier Mall property and surrounding area in a manner in a manner consistent with the vision adopted by City Council through the Greenbrier area plan.

As noted in the staff report, the proposed the proposal introduced a significant economic driver to the Green Briar Mall site with potential to unlock future development redevelopment opportunity that better reflect the long-term vision for Greenbrier.

The proposed conditional use permit offers several important benefits.

First, it revitalized and redeveloped at a permanent but currently unutilized site within the city.

Second, the project significantly enhance the site design by increased landscaping, tree canopy coverage, and overall visual appeal in an area that currently dominated by large expense of asphalt.

Third, Costco will serve as a major regional destination and economic engine bringing new investment, visitor, and commercial activity to the Greenbrier and the city as a whole.

Finally, this development has the potential to stimulate additional reinvestment and redevelopment throughout the Greenbrier Mall property and the broader greenbrier area, helping to advance the transformation envisioned by City Council.

Furthermore, the proposal, the proposed conditional use permit is consistent with the goal of the urban overlay district, compatible with the urban mixed use character and future land use designation, aligned with the city smart growth principle by directing development into targeted growth area and supportive of city council desire outcome of economic prosperity.

For these reasons, we respectfully request your approval of this conditional use permit.

Thank you, and I will stand by to answer a question.

Is awesomely excited.

If it was open tomorrow, people would be overjoyed.

Traffic.

On Greenbrier, getting out of the mall, there's two exits.

One has a light, one does not have a light.

Kill the one that doesn't have a light.

Because the problem is you're gonna see the traffic going out there, and they're gonna block that part trying to get out there.

People are gonna wait, which means it's gonna bust the traffic at the light.

They're not gonna want to go there because it's gonna back it up, and then it's gonna back it up on Edenway like it always does.

That has to stop, okay?

We already have on Edenway North an 18-wheeler.

Those were never meant to go through there, nor were trucks, and that's what we're seeing on there now.

Okay, at today this afternoon at rush hour traffic, Eden Way North at the light with Volvo.

Traffic was backed up to almost the second mill eight quarter entrance, which you know is where the lake is.

You know how many cars there were on Volvo at the light?

Four.

That's because y'all are not doing the traffic lights right, like I told you to before.

Now, Bonaventure is going to put a tane on there on River Birch Run, you're gonna have more traffic on there already.

You're gonna sit there and remove the library, you want to put the ER and all the other services there.

What are they gonna do?

That's right at that confluence there.

Okay, two words from people.

They said Edenway traffic is screwed, and the cluster word started, I won't go anymore.

But you get the idea.

Greenbrier cannot survive this.

Told you this for years, and nothing gets done.

More than a hundred million dollars over the past ten years or more has been taken out of the Greenbrier Tuff and put everywhere else but in us.

Traffic needs to be fixed.

How are we going to survive all that?

We want it, but yet it's going to hurt business because all of that in there is not going to work.

People will be racing all sorts of crazy on that because it has not been fixed.

You have to figure out ways to get that traffic going.

And then you put the development rights, the TDRs, you're moving all that out of the southern part of the area and putting Greenbrier as one of the places that's going to get it.

Really?

Who thought this one up?

With all due respect, those council members that live in Greenbrier don't live where I do, and you know where I live.

Okay.

You know where I live.

That is in the main heart of it.

I'm not on the other side of Volvo in a nice partway.

I have to deal with this disaster, especially because where they tend to block, they want to sit there and block our entrances for the GPOA.

That is not right.

And then you want us at some point in our lifetime, you're going to extend Edenway north out to take the traffic off of Volvo.

Where are y'all?

Like I said, there was four cars on Volvo, we had them all the way backed up because everybody's using Eden Way North as a back road where it was never meant to be.

Okay, you don't think that's a problem?

I'll explain to you why.

When these things happen, people are not gonna want to go to Costco.

They're one are gonna want to go elsewhere.

That takes tax dollars out of us, and it hurts the reputation of the city.

You talk about me being anti-business, I know that rumor has gone around.

I am not anti-business as much as I want these businesses to succeed and that we work together for the betterment of the city.

But when the infrastructure is not there after years of repeated warnings, I am not the one that's showing anti-business, but we have to have the infrastructure that supports these businesses so we don't have people going, I don't want to go there, it's a disaster.

My question is: when are y'all gonna take what I've been saying seriously?

I've been up here for 10 years on problems on Volvo.

That's what actually brought me out here.

So when are we gonna do something?

When are we gonna stop taking the money out of the TIFF and actually do something to fix Greenbrier so that when we get outstanding things like this that's really gonna turn that little section around, we can really capitalize on what it is we have and what we can offer.

Thank you.

Tori Ward, representing Cells speaking in support.

Good evening.

Um, Vice Mayor, uh City Council, city officials.

Um thank you for this evening.

Uh my name is Toriless Ward, I'm retired commander in the United States Navy, and I'm here, my lovely wife Sharon.

Um we currently reside in the streets of Greenbar Apartments, which is directly behind uh Greenborough Mall.

Been there for eight years and have enjoyed it.

Uh I currently work part-time in the men's department at Dillard's uh department store.

Been there for seven years, and I enjoy it.

I am a support of a full service Costco's in Greenborough Mall to include a gas station and a motor vehicle service station.

I would like to present a timeline with my allotted three minutes.

In 1976, Price Club was founded in San Diego, California.

In 1981, Greenwile Mall open.

In 1982, I started working at Miller Rhodes in the Greenborough Mall.

In 1983, the first Costco's opened in Seattle, Washington.

In 1984, Costco's open in Norfolk.

In 2019, I started working again in the midst department in Greenborough Mall at Dillers.

We have about 26 hotels with traveling drivers and about 350, 35,000 residents in Greenbrier Air that would benefit for the cheaper gas and the services of Costco's.

And I think we can all agree we could use appreciate cheaper gas.

Well, two large anchors in the Green Brown Mall being Dillers and Costco's.

We could attract more businesses and make Greenbrough Mall a very exciting family business again.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you, Mr.

Ward.

It's always nice to see you when I walk into that store.

That does conclude our speakers.

Thank you.

And motion is in order with stipulations.

With stipulations.

Thank you, Dr.

Ward.

Mr.

Jefferson.

Thank you, sir.

Any discussion on this issue.

Uh Dr.

Ward.

I think it's pretty exciting because I am a regular Costco and the families.

And back in the family is and going all the way to Norfolk, you know, from Western Ranch.

That gets me closer to the Costco and so many other people too.

I think we love it.

Yeah, one didn't, you know, Western Branch.

You know, where this but I'll take it.

I mean, I really was hoping that it was going to get to Jesse's Grab Mall, you know, with because we're in construction area there, but since I couldn't have it there, I was so for supporting it at Greenbright Mall.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Dr.

King.

Um ditto uh what Dr.

Ward said, and thank you for coming out and speaking in favor.

Uh I think it's a great idea.

I think it's going to be great for the citizens as well as for the city and our economy.

But I think Ms.

Nichols makes a good point, and the infrastructure is a concern.

And that Greenbrier Parkway, Volvo Parkway, Eden Way, is a very busy traffic latent area.

Um and I live in that area, and I have a lot of difficulty getting out in the mornings and getting home in the evenings.

So I think she has a legitimate point, and I think it's something we should discuss.

Could you briefly just talk a little bit about some of our plans for traffic mitigation in Greenbar?

Yes, sir.

We share those concerns, and um one of the things we did when we when council approved the Greenberg area plan is um we took a wholesale relook at all the infrastructure in Greenborough.

So if you're gonna accommodate it, as was said, it's not just the Costco, there's other growth that's uh planned and proposed for Greenbar.

If you're going to be able to accommodate um the existing and future development, um, there needs to be significant in uh investments in infrastructure.

Going back a few years to when the um Rosie's was proposed at Greenbrier Mall, that there was proposals to widen Greenbrier Parkway, if you remember by several lanes north and south, and you know, that was something that the the community ultimately um uh didn't want, um, but we realized during that analysis that um as much problem as there is north-south, and there definitely is on both Greenbrier and Battlefield, um, a lot of it's because there's very poor east-west connections, and so you have to travel a very long length on Greenbrier Parkway in particular to be able to go um east and west.

And so if you recall from the Greenbrier plan, we're looking at extending um uh Eden Way to Battlefield Boulevard to serve as a relief valve and parallel um network to um Volvo Parkway, looking in the future to extend um uh Jarmin to again serve as another parallel network, and as the mall property itself redevelops over time, possibly an east-west connection through the mall.

So some are some of those projects are in the CIP right now, others will be long-term uh midterm and long-term projects as Greenbrier continues to develop.

But um, you know, we share those concerns, and uh I think the council took really bold action by by approving that greenbrier plan, but we need to stay committed to the the capital improvement program to be able to implement that infrastructure.

Thank you very much.

Uh Ms.

Ritter?

Thank you.

Um, just a quick question.

The Greenbrier tip, we keep hearing that, and uh I think we need to be pretty clear about what it means to take money out.

The tax increment finance districts were designed to support certain activities in the South Norfolk area and also in the Greenbar area.

They're two separate um districts.

So part of the requirement for both is that the money can be used only for capital projects, and within the boundaries of the district, so the boundaries of the TIFF district start at Greenborough Parkway and go towards Battlefield.

The residential areas that are above, well, I see it as above Greenbar Parkway, are not included in the TIFF and therefore not eligible for TIFF funded improvements unless it's a particular movement by the council.

So I don't want anyone to think that these district funds have been abused at all.

They have not, and they can only be used in a certain geographic area.

But you know, that we have some plans, I hope they work, and you know, they are coming in the future, and I believe that if they're done outside, if they're done within the area of the district, that portion can be funded from the TIP without a problem.

Um, just in case anybody asks, you also can't pay debt service out out of the increment finance district, that has to be transferred to the general fund and paid that way.

So I want people to understand that the value of these districts have been terrific for the city and for getting uh probably in total the two districts a couple hundred million dollars worth of improvements, and hopefully we'll be looking at expanding the green bear tip, um, in or in order maybe if the um transfer of development rights goes through, then you know the receiving areas don't necessarily have to be where they would cause more problems.

Thank you.

They could be in other areas.

So I just want to make that clear because sounds like the money's disappearing, it really is being put to good use.

Thank you.

Dr.

Ward.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor, and I do care uh about the infrastructure needs.

But Mr.

Manager, um, I've brought up a couple of times now with respect to even I know traffic is an issue, and we do have some things you know in the works for long planks.

Um, but I brought up the possibility of synchronizing traffic on Green Rock Parkway and battlefield.

And I do believe that um that's something that we could look at.

I know there are other infrastructure problems, but even if we could get those lights synchronized, because you know we traveled a lot too, maybe not going to work there, but at least there's a need for looking at that could maybe get the uh traffic flow going a little bit faster.

I know it takes a little time, and I don't know if Airless or not to belabor the point, but we're constantly looking at signal optimization in that corridor battlefield, all of the corridors, and as uh if you're heading one way, you might think it's synchronized well.

If you're heading in the in the perpendicular direction, you don't think it's synchronized well.

So it's it's a matter of perspective, but we always look at it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilman Whitaker.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Uh yeah, I've had a lot of people, whether it be church, social media, uh, emails, you know, uh wanting support.

I think it's a great opportunity for the city.

Uh the only issue I think I would personally take would be the location, the location.

But uh nonetheless, I mean, we serve the people, and uh I've I've until tonight I think Miss Nichols was the first person I heard to make the first negative comment.

So uh I'm I'm happy to support it, and uh I think it'd be a great strategic anchor uh for the Green Bar area.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We uh do have a motion to by uh Dr.

Ward seconded by Councilman Jeffries to approve this.

Please prepare to vote, please vote and record motion to approve PLN use 2025-048 with stipulations is adopted by a 9-0 vote.

And I would be remiss if I did not recognize Mr.

Siphon, who is in the audience who has invested so much in our city.

Thank you, sir.

I I wanted to wait for the vote because I didn't want you to influence anybody.

Greatest city around me.

There you go.

Thank you, sir.

Good to see you.

Keep coming.

We might even let you into Costco.

Thank you.

Next item.

Stephen.

Come on.

Hold on.

Hot Council go into recess for a couple of minutes.

Right.

Okay.

Okay.

Oh, no.

So you thought it was a little bit like that.

Or have an FFL to tr sell firearms, not so much transfer.

Yes, I mean, I guess I'm when I get some clarity on your question.

I'm sorry.

So in order to uh basically sell firearms or have an FFL, my understanding was in Chesapeake, you had to have a storefront, is that correct?

You don't have to have a storefront, but you have to be open to the customers, and so that's why we have the stipulation allow it permitting customers to come in and I guess conduct their business.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, sir.

We do have a motion for approval.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote.

Madam Clerk record.

Motion to approve.

PLN use twenty twenty-six-03 with stipulations is adopted by an eight to one vote.

Thank you.

Next item, please.

PLN text twenty twenty-five-CR0 for external building lighting on structures and signs.

An ordinance amending appendix A of the City Code and title zoning, Article 14, Sections 705 and 707 to allow exterior building lighting provided certain conditions are met.

Any speakers?

Yes, sir.

We have two speakers.

But if you do intend to approve this um ordinance.

One, I want to thank the planning commission for listening to our concerns and making the important amendment that the lights be turned off from 10 p.m.

till uh dawn.

Um every day.

That was a very important safeguard that'll save a lot of wildlife uh and protect wildlife in general.

One more thing we've asked, uh is an additional amendment where if you could go in and on the brightness or the lighting with the ordinance for lighting and sign it's make it so not result in more than one half foot candle above the background measured at the lot line for any adjoined property join, not just for residential purposes, but also a park conservation land or wetlands.

Right next door to this is Paradise Creek Nature Park, um, and we want to minimize the impact to the nature park and to the wildlife both there and on the Elizabeth River.

And I'll just note that um thing you say is no flashing lights, and and generally speaking that's true, but for the navigation lights, the anti-FAA anti-collision lights, those actually we're in the wildlife service recommendation, those are flashing lights.

Now that's not directly covered, I believe, in this ordinance, uh, but just if a question comes up some future date, should the navigation lights be flashing?

They should be flashing.

That's the preferred safety method for those for the wildlife and the birds.

So anyway, uh, don't approve this.

B, if you do approve this, one more amendment to please uh make the uh brightness limit on uh parks, conservation land, and wetlands, and keep the 10 p.m.

cut off.

Thank you.

Good evening, City Council.

My name is Judy Hinch, 424 Shorebird Lane.

Um, this ordinance has already taken the hazard of artificial lighting on birds in account by requiring lights out during heavy migration hours, 10 p.m.

to dawn.

We ask can you further restrict the brightness of the lighting on LS Green Link Tower on the Elizabeth River and a joint adjacent park, Paradise Creek Nature Park.

Artificial lighting attracts and disorients birds and insects, they get confused, trapped, and die of exhaustion or collision with structures.

We have a beautiful park there on the Elizabeth River that I frequent, Paradise Creek, and the Elizabeth River Project has been working hard to restore the quality of the Elizabeth River.

This has helped the fish, which also benefits the birds who fish, such as bald eagles and osprey.

Paradise Creek Park supports 177 species of birds.

Wildlife is having a tough time adjusting to all the changes human beings are making to our shared world.

Let's make it a little easier on them if we can dim the brightness of the lights in this case to a half foot candle for the uh adjacent park and the wetlands and along the Elizabeth River, a known bird migration path.

Thank you.

Motion is in order with the amendment dated May 13th, 2026.

Uh-oh.

Dr.

King.

Yes.

Um I'd like to move approval with the two additional amendments, turning lights off from 10 p.m.

until dawn, and the brightness of the light should not result in more than a half foot candle above background measured at the lot line of any adjoining properties zoned or used for residential purposes, a park, conservation lands, or wetlands.

Is there a second?

Second.

Uh Mr.

Jeffries, I believe, had it looked at first.

A second.

Um any discussion?

I have some discussion.

Ms.

Redder?

I was willing to approve the version we were given.

Um, but I'd like to to the manager.

And this goes to good process.

This goes to respecting the community as well as respecting a business that is investing over six hundred and fifty billion dollars million dollars in our city.

Was LS Greenlink amenable to the stipulation that you and the planning commission included?

Yes, ma'am.

Were they notified ahead of time, or did you have to talk to them after it was imposed?

We had the conversation.

The meeting between us and L.

Screenlink occurred after the Planning Commission meeting.

Okay, so they had no warning, they had no input into this.

Is that correct?

There was no conversation with staff in Alice Green Link regarding the change prior to the Claring Commission.

Okay, so they agreed to that, and I think that's fine, but when you limit the light exposure at the property line, that really needs some scientific backup on what impact that would have on what they want to do.

They've agreed to the hours, but I can't support that additional amendment.

This is a company, I mean, when you go to the end of it, and I'm not the most business friendly person on the council.

I pretty much hold people to a pretty high standard.

But when you're investing over a billion dollars in this city and two facilities, and you impose something like this with no study, no scientific backup.

I think that's unfair to the company, and I just can't support that.

Dr.

King?

Yeah.

There is scientific backup for that and the impact that it can have on wildlife, and they agree to it.

So I'm definitely 100% in favor of it.

I uh any other they didn't agree to it.

They did not agree to it.

They agreed to the light to the to the time, not to the uh, right, right, and only after it was imposed upon them.

I have to say the uh you know that this company came to us in good faith, and I I agree with Vice Mayor to change the the conditions in which they're willing to invest in this city without even warning.

I do find it unacceptable.

Uh any other discussion, Miss Newens.

Uh may I just ask, is this something that we could have a discussion with LS GreenLink about?

I don't think we need a lot of time.

It could be continued for a week, have a conversation with them about trying to mitigate any kind of concerns, and then come back before that's the will of council and have this addressed.

I don't yeah, I don't that may be possible, but you know, it's not just what they agree to, it's you know what is what is this is an iconic building, you know, and uh all of a sudden we're throwing conditions on it that make it maybe not so iconic.

Uh Mr.

Whitaker.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I'd like to make a secondary motion.

Yes, sir.

I would like to approve uh the I would like to approve it as presented.

Thank you.

Do you have a second on the secondary motion?

Which is the the motion with the amended date in May 13th, is that correct?

That is correct.

Yeah, maybe we have a second second.

Mr.

Smith, thank you.

We have a second on a secondary motion, any discussion on secondary motion, Mr.

Whitaker?

No.

Is there any reason why we cannot have a discussion with them regarding this issue before we make a decision?

Um well, we're gonna make a I just want to make one comment on the floor.

Um technically, this is an application that would have citywide um or an ordinance that would have citywide application, and so while there is one business in particular that may be impacted, I just wanted to raise that to council's attention that this is something that would have citywide application.

If we pass this uh uh amendment, we can always talk with them about other conditions if verified.

They are a company that you know will is here to please.

So if we pass it as it is, want to add other things later, then we can certainly talk to them about it.

And if we decide that we want to go beyond what they're agreed to, we can decide that too.

Okay, I don't know that this is something that is going to be seen as a negative.

Maybe something that they're willing to agree to based on.

And then we can come back and make that change.

So we do have a substitute motion.

Ms.

Midder.

Alright, just in the um getting the weeds because you know it's my favorite thing.

This is a text amendment.

So Ms.

Lindley accurately points out that this would affect any business.

And Mr.

Ross is ten times as smart as I am, and I'll bet you still have your slide rule.

I burned mine.

But it would take a while to figure out all of the physics behind the lighting and how it would affect every business.

So you know it's not just this isn't a use permit, it's a text amendment, and I think they were pretty good about accepting the other one, but to impose it without them being here.

I'm real shaky about that.

Okay, I'm not clear on what you mean by how it would affect every business.

So maybe even because it's a tech it's a this uh zoning text.

It would apply to all.

It would apply to every business.

Well, 500 feet.

Yeah, about 500 feet.

Yeah, well, and we may have those.

Any other discussion before we vote on the secondary uh amendment?

We do have a motion to approve the amendment as uh presented May 13th.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record.

On the secondary motion to approve PLX text 2025-004 with the amendment dated May 13th, is adopted by a seven to two vote.

Thank you.

Next uh next item is unfinished business.

Uh, are there any items council members would like to uh bring up on their unfinished business?

Um yes, I think you got new business.

Yes, I do have one.

I I would like Miss Linley, because it's late, and I have to have my chariot come and pick me up.

Um I don't think it is just 500 foot buildings.

Could you uh send us a memo to this unfinished business?

Yes, it is.

We just finished it.

And I'm concerned that, you know, is it 500 feet only affected by this text amendment?

Yes, we've identified them as landmark landmark buildings, and there's certain criteria associated with the landmark building.

One of those criteria is being at least 500 feet in height.

Okay, I hope we'll send a message or memo, Mr.

Tiller down there to the planning commission that if they are going to impose something, they the applicant needs to know ahead of time.

No, well, yeah, but the person that's being affected by the text.

This is written for a specific reason.

Can we move forward?

Yes, go ahead.

Any uh any council members we don't finish with Dr.

King?

This is just gonna be very very quick.

I just want to say, as a former educator, I understand the importance of the teacher-student ratio.

And when we are voting on issues that relate to increasing the number of students when we're struggling to get teachers in in these schools, and we are contemplating the possibility of rezoning that may or may not happen.

I think we have to be really careful about um the quality of our education and making sure that we do not overwhelm our teachers and overcrowd our schools any further than they have already been.

Thank you.

Any other unfinished business?

A new business, Mad Clerk.

Would you please present item A?

PLN PUD MAPM 2026-001.

Edinburgh PUD Accelerated Proffer Modification.

HC C B R A One L L C applicant owner, Melissa Venable agent, an accelerated proffer modification to allow swimming pools in the secondary front yard on corner lots within the Edinburgh PUD Village Community District.

Staff recommends approval with the development criteria dated March 321 Peaceful Road in Great Bridge Planning Any speakers?

No.

No, sir.

Thank you.

Motion is in order.

Move approval.

This is a motion with developmental criteria dated March 24th, 2026.

Thank you, Dr.

King.

Who was second?

Second.

Any discussion?

Thank you.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record.

Motion to approve PLN PUD MAPM 2026-001 with development criteria dated March 24th, 2026 is adopted by a nine-o vote.

Are there any other additional uh new business items?

Vice Mayor Ritter.

Thank you.

Um I would like to move that the council city council appointees receive colas as identified in their contracts at three and a half percent.

And car allowances commensurate with those given to um department heads, which I believe is three hundred and fifty dollars a month.

But whatever um the policy is for department heads that those would be extended to all of the um city council appointees with the exception of the manager who has a car allowance currently in his contract.

Second that motion.

Thank you.

Any discussion?

No.

Seeing none, please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record.

Motion to adopt a colour for appointees at three and a half percent.

And a car allowance for all appointees is adopted by a nine-o vote.

Um, the car allowance to four appointees who don't currently get it at the rate of department heads, the manager has in his contract an annual car allowance.

There's no closed meeting tonight, but I would like to read a motion for next week if that's okay.

Yes, please.

All right, a motion to conduct a closed meeting on Tuesday, June 23rd, 2026 at 5 p.m.

in Chesapeake City Hall to discuss and consider appointments to city boards, commissions, and authorities for the purpose of discussing candidates for citizen advisory commission, fine arts commission, human services advisory board, library board, public art committee, and the utility review board as permitted by section 2.2-3711 A1 of the code of Virginia.

Thank you.

Motion please move approval.

Thank you, Dr.

Ward.

Thank you, Dr.

King.

Please prepare to vote.

Please vote and record.

Motion is good motion to conduct a closed meeting on June 23rd, 2026 at 5 o'clock is adopted by a 9-0 vote.

And this time I would ask Councilmember Newens to provide our benediction.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Heavenly Father, thank you for bringing us here today.

Keep us safe.

Bless our families and loved ones.

Bring us together again in your perfect timing.

In your holy name we pray.

Amen.

Stop almond.

What's the owner?

Ik ben