Governing body.

Madam Clerk, would you take roll?

Mr.

Moody.

Present.

Dr.

Rennie.

Present.

Mr.

Royble.

Present.

Mr.

Seagrave.

Present.

Mr.

White.

Present.

Dr.

Aldrich.

Present.

Mayor Collins.

I'm here.

Dr.

Emmons.

Present.

Mr.

Escobel?

Here.

Mr.

Laborne?

Here.

All members are present.

We do have a quorum.

Would you join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God.

Consent agenda.

All agenda items listed with the designation of CA are considered to be routine items by the governing body and will be enacted by one motion.

There will be no separate discussion on these items unless a member of the governing body so requests and support by two members is received.

Any item removed from the consent agenda will be considered in its normal sequence on the agenda.

All right.

Are there any items a member of this governing body would like to remove from the consent agenda?

Hearing none, I would entertain a motion.

Second.

Move by Dr.

Aldridge.

Second by was that Mr.

Royball or Mr.

Seagrave.

We look a lot alike.

Handsome, I know.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

We have unanimous consent of the consent agenda.

Number six, public hearing for a transfer of ownership of retail liquor license application filed with the city clerk's office for Apple Colorado LLC doing business as Applebee's neighborhood grill and bar.

1401 Del Range Boulevard, Cheyenne, Wyoming.

License currently held by A.

B.

Cheyenne, Wyoming, LLC doing business as Applebee's neighborhood grill and bar.

All right, we'll open the public hearing.

Is there anybody here that would like to speak to this?

Or is there a representative from the new ownership of Applebee's?

Yeah.

If you could do two things for me, push the button, turn the microphone on.

There you go and introduce yourself for us.

Yeah, my name is uh Brian Call.

I'm an area director for Applebee's.

Welcome.

You want to share with us what's going on?

So we recently are taking over that franchise, so we're a new new franchise coming in, so we're just trying to transfer the license.

Sounds good.

And you guys, where are you?

Where's the organization from?

Um so we're it's called Flynn Group.

Okay.

We're around the whole United States.

Well, welcome.

We're happy to have you here.

Thank you.

Jennifer.

I have a Mr.

Brian Profit with his hand raised.

Brian, you should be able to unmute yourself.

There we are.

Can you hear me?

We can.

Good evening, Mayor Collins.

Brian Profit.

I represent uh Apple Colorado LLC.

I'm sorry, I was frantically trying to wave my hand, and I apologize I couldn't be there in person this evening.

Um I think Mr.

Call uh let you know exactly what we were hoping for you to hear, which is uh this is simply a change of the franchisee here at this location.

Uh from the outside looking in, your typical uh customer or patron there in Cheyenne uh will not even most likely realize that there would be a change in the operator.

Um the service policies and procedures and training are virtually identical between the purchaser here, Apple Colorado, and the seller, A B Cheyenne.

Uh Mr.

Call and Mr.

Weimer are there this evening if you had any particular questions, of course, about those policies, procedures, or operations.

Um but importantly for uh yourself and other members of city council for this evening, we want you to be aware that um there will not be any significant changes to Applebee's, and it will continue to offer uh the same food, the same uh quality of service uh that Cheyenne has come to expect.

Well, welcome and thanks for that.

Appreciate it.

Any questions from the Yes sir Mr.

Mayor?

Uh Mr.

Escabel.

Yeah, thank you.

Through you.

This is a full retail liquor license.

So when Applebee's first came into this community, uh at that point we didn't have bar and grill licenses.

So would you be amenable to having a bar and grill license instead of a full retail liquor license?

Probably for the phone.

If I might be able to speak to that, I in all honesty, I'm not sure if Mr.

Call or Mr.

Weimer are familiar with the differences there.

It's certainly something that Apple Colorado uh might be interested in uh if uh approached regarding that license.

And so if there were a situation like this five or ten years from now, it would cause some real issues if we wanted to sell the business or if there were someone else who wanted to come in and operate uh this franchise.

If that were to change, um certainly I I think my client might be amenable uh to spinning off that asset.

Well, just to make a point, we just actually had uh situation like that this past week, where it was uh in a family and uh sister took it over from a brother, and that's exactly what the council allowed them to do to transfer that license as opposed to it uh returning to the city for that's um that that's not accurate.

They had to return it and they had to buy a new license.

Um and uh the fact is it's on the agenda today uh for that it's not transferable.

They had to apply for a new license and and buy that license.

Well, that's what I meant.

We we did uh approve that thank you, Dr.

Aldridge.

Uh Mayor Collins through you.

First and foremost, um I'm excited to see the change in at Apple Bee's.

Our rotary club happens to use your back room twice a month for our meetings, and you're one of the few places, restaurants in town that has a back room that is large enough to accommodate that group.

Um and so has been really um amenable to that.

I'm just wondering, and as you probably are aware, our Apple Bees has been in service for a long time and is showing the wear and tear of being in service for a long time.

So I'm just wondering if there are any plans to um update or uh, you know, um refresh that uh restaurant facility.

Yeah, yeah, there will be some.

Do me a favor, please.

What talk into that microphone?

Sorry.

Yeah, there will be some facelifts to the restaurant for sure.

Thank you.

Gentlemen, thanks for being here tonight.

Appreciate it very much, and good luck in your new venture.

All right, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Anybody else in the audience want to speak to this uh uh transfer of a retail liquor license?

All right, hearing none.

Uh, the purpose of the public hearing has been met.

We'll sign this to the finance committee, which will be next Tuesday, next Monday.

Two weeks.

That's right, it's a fifth week.

Two weeks from now uh in this room.

Okay.

So perfect.

Thank you very much.

Number seven ordinance, third reading, creating section 10.24.200 vehicle mufflers, excessive smoke and unreasonable noise and repealing section 8.56.050.

Motor vehicle mufflers of the municipal code of the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming, to revise and enhance provisions governing vehicle mufflers and noise to establish a graduated penalty structure for recurring offenses and to make conforming amendments as specified.

All right, we have an ordinance before us this evening on third and final reading to uh maybe help meet our city council goal of quieting down vehicles within the community.

Uh at this time we'll open it up and see if anybody's here tonight to speak to that.

Sir, if you want to come forward, please.

Do me a favor and push that button, bring that microphone up close to yourself and identify you, please.

Hi, my name is Philip Bowling here.

Today I'm speaking on about behalf of myself as Philip Bowling.

I know it's one of those things that we look at, we want things to be quieter, but I mean I live in the city and I live on right off the main street of Dell Range, so I do hear a lot of things.

However, newer houses are also being built to be quieter.

And the reason why I bring this up is um the biggest thing we see is usually kind of the louder ones is usually the younger kids.

The younger kids want to modify their vehicle, make things happen.

But the biggest challenge we see, even in today's umdivisions, they're limiting more.

Even new subdivisions are saying, hey, we can't have a basketball court, and some the city ordinances for the new subdivision areas.

We are starting to take more and more things, I think, away from our youth that keeps them occupied away from other things that are bad.

And the reason why I say I have a son, he does the same thing.

He wants a loud truck.

I remember being his age, and I was like, you know what?

I want it allowed.

And at the end of the day, he's not hurting anyone.

He's not doing anything wrong.

He's not doing anything bad, he's not doing drugs, he's not going out breaking things or making things ruckus in the community.

He's working on his truck, having excitement to sit there, change the exhaust, drop the muffler, change that, change the cadillac, um, do exhaust manifolds, whatever he could.

And I tell them all the time, I'm like, yeah, obnoxious.

It is loud.

But I also understand and respect the situation that he's doing that instead of something else that's bad.

And as we continue to see in our city that we want to keep creating more regulations, I'm against that.

I mean, just south of us, I'm a realtor, we have majority of people from Colorado come up here because Colorado is now regulated as this as a six-month most regulated state and the US.

And people come up here because they say we want freedom, we want to have that freedom.

We like the idea we're not regular at all of the time.

But then again, I look at it and I see our kids, and we continue to take things away from our kids, but then we can't come into an understanding of why are they doing other things they shouldn't.

Well, when we were kids and we were younger, we had that versatility to be like, let's do this stuff.

And so those are my reasons why I'm against it.

I think we're taking things away from our youth and our kids to basically give them another reason why they should use other things that they shouldn't, because they're not doing things that are harming people now.

Thank you, sir.

Appreciate you being here this evening.

Anyone else here?

Gentlemen, if you want to come up, we'll take the ones in the online after we get the ones in house.

Well, go ahead.

So do me a favor, push the button.

Okay, I need you to bring that microphone down so you're talking right into it.

There you go.

Introduce yourself.

Uh Andrew Aragon.

Hey, welcome.

Been a long time motorcycle rider, both uh sport bikes and Harley Davidson's and Indians.

I also work on quite a few of them.

Uh my concern with this ordinance is I just I don't think it's a good way, I don't think there's a good way to monitor it.

I think there's too much uh ambiguity as far as uh how you're going to enforce it, because noise is uh if you're gonna enforce a a decibel level, you have to have tools to check that, and there's a way to check it.

You gotta be so close, certain level, all that stuff.

If if we're just going down the road on a motorcycle and a policeman, uh law enforcement just decides to pull you over and tells you, well, this is your bike is too loud.

It probably is.

Uh I've been working on Harley Davidson's for a long, long time, and uh I was talking to Scott.

A stock Harley Davidson exhaust comes out of the factory at between 82 and 84 dB.

That's stock.

That's from a manufacturer.

You alter the exhaust, which is completely legal in the state of Wyoming.

You can unbaffle them, you can do all kinds of stuff.

Well, you're gonna be pushing, and I've got friends that we push over a hundred dB on them, and this is on a Harley Davidson, it's legal to do.

The sport bikes now have a different tone to them, and their DB range, the power that comes out of the back of that exhaust, is the same DB level, but it's a higher frequency.

And that's what we hear when these motorcycles sports bikes are going down the road.

We're hearing this different pitch.

It's not a DB rating, it's just the pitch and frequency.

So there's a lot of a lot of gray area in pulling a bike over and you know, making you go through everything else and all that.

I just think that this is this uh is just not ready yet.

I guess that's my uh what I'm what I'm saying.

You're just not quite ready.

I you know, I mean, I think maybe we should try it, monitor it, see how it goes, but not enforce it 100%.

Put a put an open and closed date and then readdress it, see if that works and how it, you know, it uh from the law enforcement end, you know, will this work for them guys?

I mean, you know, uh, because you're gonna be the one enforcing it.

Are you gonna go well uh I don't know, but I think it's uh too loud, you know.

You should have better than that.

We should be better than that.

Thanks, Arthur.

Well, yeah, there John just brought up another good example.

Probably more than one motorcycle at one time, you know.

So you can have five or six bikes together.

Well, geez, you know, what's that gonna sound like?

You know, it's just it's just not quite tuned right, I guess.

So that's what I'm appreciate you being here tonight.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Hi there, uh Nick Dodson.

What concerns me about this is it's entirely arbitrary.

Um this is a for we're putting uh police officers are in the a difficult position, I believe we're also putting our judiciary in a difficult position.

There are completely standard machines, as this gentleman just spoke to, both motorcycles and cars, which are federally mandated to that level.

That's okay.

Now we're going to have an officer make uh write a ticket for something the feds say is okay.

That's could be a problem to say the least, in my opinion.

Uh there's another thing, which again, this gentleman mentioned is pitch.

There's a reason some of us like classical music, and there's a reason some is like metal.

It's two completely different things.

The classical people tend to not like metal music.

Some of us like a noise from a V8 engine.

I can concern that we've got a youngster on a motorcycle making noise at a high pitch at the same decibel level as a gentleman in his 70s and his tri-5 Chevy.

But the young man on his motorcycle is the one who's gonna get the ticket.

And the tri-five Chevy will probably drive away without any issues whatsoever.

Uh that's unfair on our offices.

That's unfair on youngsters.

We are having a serious problem in the trades industry keeping youngsters in this town.

Be it electricians, be it mechanics.

Yes, I'm being selfish here because I own a couple of stores, be it drywallers.

Well, the last thing we need to do to this other gentleman's point is drive them away anymore.

Other things that can be done, absolutely.

In fact, I think uh the Southeast Wyoming uh motorcycle safety course that was done fairly recently is still being worked on by Captain Janes and by Laramie County Sheriff's Office and myself.

We've addressed this with a lot of motorcyclists at every demo day at my one shop.

We've had police officers that talking to these kids about it.

I believe that has helped a little bit.

Unfortunately, there are always four or five people who may not behave as well.

I and we can't control all of those.

My last point is the noises are being complained about are typically from machines that are being driven way too fast in this city, way too quickly at high RPM.

They make and this is cars and motorcycles.

Import cars are just as high pitched.

And I think some of the import cars and some of the motorcycles are sometimes confused.

We have speeding regulations for a reason.

Most of these noises are caused by speeding.

So surely that can be another piece of this.

But as it is written, I truly, truly believe this is so arbitrary, you're putting the officers, the judiciary, and indeed enthusiasts and young people in a position of conflict.

And that cannot be good for this community.

Nick, thanks for being here.

Anybody else in house that would like to speak, please.

You've been here once so quickly, okay?

Okay.

Yeah, it's really quick.

So they brought up a good point with the decibels, and I forgot to bring those up earlier.

So the biggest thing is you think about decibels, but that's the biggest complaint of all this stuff.

But one thing to think about is the general um construction activities.

Most of those are anywhere from 80 to 90 decibels.

Heavy equipment, also, any of those things, jackhammers, bulldozers, things like that, those are anywhere from 100 to 120.

Now I know some people say, well, but those are during the day.

There's also a lot of people that work graveyards.

There's a lot of people that sleep during the day.

So the thing is we have things around in our city that are much louder than our cars, and we're okay with those, but then we're gonna have these things be shut down.

Just another thought.

Sir.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Yeah, my name's Aaron.

Uh I got two daughters.

They're in their early 20s now, but I was lucky enough to have two daughters, and I never thought this, but I got two daughters that are into cars.

They both got classic cars, they both work hard on them.

They both put a lot of money into them, they put a lot of time into them.

There's not a lot of things on either of those cars that are factory.

And I never thought when I was daughters were young, growing up, I never thought I'd come home from work and find my garage a disaster and tools everywhere, and I'm having flashbacks of my dad getting on me about my tools or his tools.

But I do have daughters, they do they do love to work on their vehicles.

I love to work on these vehicles.

One's a 64 VW, one's a 61 Ford pickup truck.

There's nothing on those exhausts that are from the factory.

Uh, my one daughter races for VW at the track.

But that gets to what I think could be taken care of with these current problems with with the with the noise.

Both of those vehicles can be pretty loud.

I got a diesel pickup truck that can be pretty loud.

But it's not loud when you're driving it in a safe manner.

Um we already have laws about speeding, careless driving, reckless driving, exhibition, drag racing.

Most of those noise complaints can be taken care of through one of those other avenues.

And the people that are just trying to enjoy their hobby.

Aren't gonna have even close to a factory uh muffler on them.

The factory mufflers are expensive, and it's a lot cheaper to put, especially nowadays, a Chinese muffler on, especially when you're on a budget.

I mean, I imagine that's gonna be a lot of the car clubs in in this city.

Um so that that's my views on it.

And I and I think uh the other gentleman brought it up too.

We're we don't want to be just putting a target on these kids' back from 16 to I'll say young men being up to their 30s.

I remember how I was.

You know, they don't use a lot of common sense, and I think there's other avenues to take without taking away these other things.

Um I don't think there's I've run trucks with straight pipes before and had hot rods with straight pipes before, and they're obnoxious, even driven responsibly, the noise can be held down.

And I'm not advocating no mufflers, but to say that uh my daughter can get pulled over for her VW, who's highly modified, but she's running twin mufflers on it versus the the factory single muffler.

Those twin mufflers are much more quiet than that factory muffler, but she can get pulled over now for running the twin mufflers because they obviously do not line up with the two little peace shooter holes on the back of that VW.

My daughter's 61 Ford.

It's not even a hot rod, but it's got dual exhaust on it.

It did not come with dual exhaust.

It wouldn't be a big deal to put it back.

But that's the way she wanted it, that's the way we did it.

And it it's ridiculous to throw a blanket over everybody.

And I've been to the cruise nights, I've been to a lot of them.

I love the heck out of them.

I think they're great.

But my daughters talk about it too.

After about a certain time, maybe eight o'clock, the crowd changes.

You got burnouts going on in the parking lot, you got burnouts going on on Central and Warren.

There's your noise.

It's those drivers right there.

It's not just everybody that's got a uh a modified vehicle.

Thank you.

That's what I would like everybody to think about.

Gotta be kind of exciting to have your girls share your passion.

So thank you for the case.

It is.

It is, I love it.

I don't want to lose it.

Yep.

Sir, did you want to come forward?

Hi, my name is Chris Shaw.

So I just want to speak a little bit on what the first gentleman talked about.

Um, I came from a life of addiction.

I'm currently nine years clean and sober.

My passion is sound systems.

As long and also with my children.

So I'm against what you guys are trying to do on the simple fact of like the other gentleman said, that trying to get the kids not to go down the same path I went down.

I'm trying to get them into something to be passionate about.

Most of them, I got five kids, most of them like the sound systems.

So I do know that you know we shouldn't be driving around the neighborhoods, but if we're driving downtown by the mall, by Walmart, or just down an empty road.

I don't think this should be a problem if we have our music up loud.

And that's what I'm trying to get my kids into, so they have a passion versus the line of addiction like I went through.

So I guess that's all I had to say.

Congratulations, dear sobriety.

Thank you.

Thank you, appreciate you.

Hello again.

Hi.

Suzanne Robbins, Cheyenne Cruz Nines.

I'm sorry, I'm gonna say one thing off topic just because it's a pet peeve.

But I think you gentlemen, Mr.

Dr.

Rennie and Mr.

Collins, you need to change your name plants up front.

Am I the doctor now?

I'll get some more respect.

I like that.

Thank you.

Sorry.

Okay.

Thank you.

You're welcome, sorry.

It's all gonna be bad, he's gonna get in trouble.

I love that idea.

Um I've researched case law, federal law, all of this.

If you want it, I can give this to you later.

Um, but I'm gonna take the highlights as so many before me already said that.

It was mentioned before, a lot of stock vehicles are over the 80.

That is currently in the noise ordinance.

Which um, if I'm remembering right, um, chief of police has that is hard to enforce.

So why would it be any easier if we're leaving it up to the officers' discretion?

I do my best with Cheyenne Cruise Nights to work with law enforcement, whether we share his department, police department, but at the end of the day, we're all people.

We're all human.

We're part of the human condition.

And like Nick has pointed out before me, they're all loud, whether it's the classic SS Chevy that pulls into the parking lot that the owner had since he was a teenager and keeps rebuilding, or the sports bike that pulls in.

Do I have knuckleheads in my parking lot?

Yes, I do.

Do some of them get interesting, shall we say?

Yes, they do.

That's the reason why I've worked with law enforcement to bring it in, get that control.

We don't have any control over the four or five, as I call them knuckleheads that drive around every single night.

I live in the county, I can hear them too.

I understand that noise complaint.

However, if we're looking at just some of the examples of anything that is louder than whether it be a stock Harley or a stock Mustang GT, any of your construction equipment, any of your commercial trucks, aircraft operations.

I am in the flight path of Cheyenne Regional.

I don't know how many times at 4 30 in the morning I can see the underbelly of an aircraft flying over my property.

That is louder than ADDB.

I am an army wife.

I live next to Black Hawk Field.

Those are definitely louder than any of those bikes.

And other circumstances in that moment.

Further, I also believe that is quite excessive that we're talking jail sentence for a third offense within 12 months.

A criminal misdemeanor charge.

People who have their third UI often don't even look at that.

And that's actually putting lives in danger.

As a personal anecdote, the person who has killed my late veteran husband is walking around free.

But we're gonna jail a kid with a motorbike.

I don't I don't see the point in that.

Give them fine.

Hurt them in the pocket.

That's less pocket they can, pocket money they can spend on modifying their rights.

I think that's a little bit more effective than a criminal record.

So many are walking around freely.

Exactly.

I think it needs be revised.

And my last one to that is we had made a proposition of a rewrite of this ordinance, which was shut down on the preemptive debt.

Part of the new in discussion right now is state law, and state law cannot be changed.

As so many have pointed out, all of these vehicles are within federal regulation regulation and federal law.

So then why are we changing something that would go against federal law?

Thank you.

Anyone else here in the audience who want to speak?

Please come forward, ma'am.

Okay, you remember you gotta push the button.

You gotta bring that microphone right in front of your mouth.

Okay, my name is Nancy.

Hi, Nancy.

And I live three houses west of central.

And um I come from the country, and therefore silence was something that I grew up with.

And I have very good hearing for being 83 years old.

So my point is simply that if we were as a society, if we thought about anybody but ourselves, um, things would run very, very much more smoothly.

But I have a um text from uh the place that says traffic noise is bad for your brain.

I'm wondering if some of these young kids and their loud noises might have been affected by this.

Umise from traffic and railroads increase risk for all caused dementia, Alzheimer's, vascular dementia, Parkinson's, and uh it raises that 16 to 27 percent for these things, and not only is it dementia, but um it's associated with heart disease, obesity, and diabetes.

And so I just want to throw that out as something to think about.

When uh you're gonna discuss noise, it's not just about noise, and this is very naughty of me, but when the traffic stops at the light on Pershing, it seems like they're they race to see how long it takes them to go from zero to a hundred before they get downtown.

Thank you.

Thank you, Nancy.

All right, anybody else here?

Are you the VW or the truck?

I'm the VW.

Come forward.

Welcome.

Hi, my name is Ariana Simone.

Um, I do have um a modified old Volkswagen bug.

Um, it has a different engine than what Cames factory.

And um I have a muffler for it.

I do run it.

Um, but part of your um proposed ordinance um says that any unlawful defective or modified exhaust systems, vehicles lacking a functional muffler or exhaust system or any other modification to any part of the vehicle that increases noise output um can be fined um third offense six months jail time.

Um what my issue with this is um it's gonna be difficult to enforce because how many of your officers know what is a factory exhaust and what is not.

Um my Volkswagen is louder than stock.

That was not the intent for it.

Um I do race this vehicle, and um part of having the bigger engine is it becomes a little bit louder.

You can hear the carburetors, and then my factory or excuse me, my dual exhaust um is a little bit louder than the little pea shooters that the original engine had with it.

Um but anyway, my point is um your law enforcement officers, how are they gonna be able to tell what is a factory and what is not?

Um I think the bigger problem is people driving really fast, recklessly, um, higher RPMs, and then also as one of the um Harley enthusiasts pointed out, um, those Harley Davidson's those motorcycles already come loud, and I think that loud pipes on motorcycles save lives because people don't pay attention.

So um just keep that in mind.

Thanks.

Appreciate you being here.

Anyone else here in the house?

How about we'll go online then?

Uh Mr.

Lee File, you should be able to unmute yourself.

All right, can you hear me?

We can, representative.

How are you this evening?

Oh good, Mayor, how about you?

Good thanks.

Well, Mayor and City Council, my name is Lee Feyler, uh Ward 1.

As I was I wasn't planning on uh speaking on this, but the more I get to thinking about it, uh I just want to let you all know that I do have an older diesel pickup.

Um, especially when pulling a trailer uh with heavier loads, it is it does create a lot more smoke, and it does create a lot more noise.

So while we're discussing, I went out with my decibel meter and I started my truck at an idle, and I was at 84 decibels at an idle.

Uh of course it's cold out and it was kind of revved up a little bit warming up.

Um so I'm just trying to think that I'm hoping with this ordinance, if it does go through, is that we have really good officer discretion, maybe catching the folks that are just the bad actors, you know, everything from sports bikes, cutting in lanes in between lanes, uh driving really fast, making a lot more noise, you know, racing down Central or Warren Avenue.

I think those are the biggest hiccups is where we see a lot more noise from people racing and and doing things recklessly than we do just people using their vehicles or like that young lady who you know like to modify her car just so that she can go race it on a weekend somewhere, but that is her vehicle, and and I think it's her right.

But with that, Mr.

Mayor and City of Council, that that's all I gotta say about that.

Thanks.

Appreciate you being here.

Who else do you have, Jennifer?

Uh Mr.

Alan Sheldon, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Welcome, Alan.

Alan, you there.

I'm sorry, Mayor.

That was operator error on my part.

Um, Alan, you should be able to unmute yourself now, or you're on muted.

Awesome.

Thanks.

Yeah, Alan Sheldon Ward 2.

Um, a lot of people have already said uh a lot of the things that I had, um, so I'll kind of summarize my points.

Um, but I take issue with uh quite a few aspects of this proposed ordinance, uh, starting with uh the first section 10.24.200 subsection D.

Um, as kind of mentioned previously by others, that basically bans any modified exhaust system, whether DOT legal or not.

Um, I actually have one of these vehicles.

Um, it's actually quieter than it otherwise would be with that exhaust.

It's a stainless steel DOT rated exhaust.

I actually installed a post muffler on it uh myself to quiet it down even more because now having been you know well over 40 uh 30 into my 40s now, I'm not necessarily about loud noises, but it visually is not a standard exhaust system.

So while it's completely legal, has all the emissions equipment, it is slightly louder than stock, and of course looks different than stock.

And so under this ordinance would be illegal, and actually, based on what we've seen from recent postings online, several individuals under the current ordinance have already been ticketed for basically what I've got that's perfectly legal, is not too loud.

Um, and so um I I you know I want to highlight that issue.

Um also um that section leaves out uh subsection D leaves out what is unreasonable noise, and it leaves that entirely up to officer discretion.

Uh, this not only results in um unequal application of the law because there's no objective standard established for what is unreasonable.

Um, and for that, you know, I would give an example of having a decibel limit.

Uh section uh 10.24.200 subsection E uh sets forth unreasonable fines and imprisonment in my opinion.

Um I don't believe that imprisonment should ever result from a noise ordinance violation alone.

Umsection or section 10.24.200 subsection G could easily be modified to include that decibel standard.

Um and I'd like to also suggest removing the prima facial language in subsection D at the same time if you were to make that modification.

And then finally, uh section 10.12.020.

Um, I believe that should have subsection G struck from the ordinance uh for the reasons stated above that I don't believe that there should be imprisonment for a noise ordinance violation alone.

Now I understand that a group of people are very upset about the increased noise having experienced unusually quiet environments during COVID and for some time after that.

Um as things return to normal, uh, there needs to be an objective balance in the new ordinance that allows people to legally modify and enjoy their cars, trucks, and motorcycles while also addressing legitimate concerns about noise.

Um my opinion, all the noise enforcement should be based on standard uh on a standard rather than officer discretion.

The simple external appearance of an exhaust system or whether or not the system is any louder than the OEM system, um, you know, shouldn't factor in.

Um also I find that uh find unreasonable to have such high fines and or imprisonment for a noise violation.

Uh Shine is not an HOA or 55 plus community.

We have an airport uh with a military base and two major highways that exist nearby.

There's always going to be some noise here.

Um let's address the few instances of unreasonable noise without penalizing everyone who is trying to follow the law.

Um and I asked that the council amend the proposed ordinance to ensure that it's both fair and objective.

And thank you for your uh for an opportunity to speak on this.

Thanks, Alan.

Anyone else, Jen?

Anyone else here in the audience want to speak on this issue?

You got another hand up.

Yep, as soon as you said that, I got two more.

Great.

Um let uh Stephen Jacobson, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Good evening.

First of all, I really appreciate the councils and the mayor's efforts to quiet down this city.

As I have communicated to most of you, I've lived in over 10 communities during my career, and this is by far the loudest city I have ever lived in, lived in.

And I think an effort to quiet this down is appropriate.

I don't think you have any control over the airport, it's not within your jurisdiction, and you don't have any control over what the Air Force does.

That's federal.

So I have shared with most of you opportunities of ways to put teeth into this ordinance of ways to measure it so that everybody will know exactly what the noise requirements are and not to be over it.

As some of you have already done, you can look at noise ordinances for other communities, and they're a lot more robust with times and specificity, and that's something to consider.

I have suggested it kind of before.

And as far as youth, I understand that some people like things really loud.

I didn't when I was a kid.

So what we appreciate is not necessarily dependent on our age, it has to do with what we like.

And there's places for somebody that wants to race their car to go race it.

That's on a racetrack.

They are not things to be done on the street.

How they get that car there to the racetrack, maybe on a some type of uh carrier or something like that.

But these motorcycles that are designed for off-road cycling, make a lot more noise.

And why are those being run in the city?

It doesn't make sense.

So I appreciate what you're doing, how you do it.

I made some suggestions and keep going.

Thank you.

Thanks for calling in.

Jennifer, who's last?

I have Jacob Nordenmark.

You should be able to unmute yourself.

I believe I'm unmuted.

Can you hear me?

We sure can, Jacob.

Welcome.

Okay.

Um I agree with the speakers who have come up to speak out against this new ordinance um so far, but I've got a couple things I'd like to add.

Um, I'm a motorcyclist, and as a motorcyclist, I feel like I probably pay more attention while I'm driving my car than someone who maybe doesn't spend time on a motorcycle.

Um even though I try to pay more attention, I've had multiple times where I've I've heard of a motorcycle before I've seen it.

Um, and that's that's a safety thing.

You know, the the further slogan is live say was, but it's it's true.

A lot of times you can hear the bike before you can see them, even when you are being diligent looking for them.

Um other points.

Uh I think that jail time for a third offense is very steep, especially taken as an example of a 16 or 17-year-old kid who saved all their money to buy a car, and maybe when they bought it, it was that already had a modified exhaust, or even had a rusted out muffler that was too loud.

Um with the heavy fines, you're taking the money away from that kid.

And it doesn't even have to be a kid, it could be a you know, single mother working two jobs that's got a rusted out exhaust on our car.

If you take that money away from them in the fines as they grow steeper and steeper, and then they don't have the means to repair it, then it's jail time.

That just seems very excessive to me.

Um I think that's I feel like I had one more thing, but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Well, we're glad that you called in.

Thanks, Jacob.

Jennifer, anyone else?

One more uh yep, Ash D, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Hello, can you guys hear me?

Sure can, Ash.

Hi, yes, my name is Ash and Doty.

I live in Ward 1, uh, right off of college, and um I've read through the ordinance and been keeping up with it, and uh there's a lot of it that I don't agree with.

Um, as a car guy myself, I love you know, working on cars, keeping them up and running, and this the fines and everything just seem unreasonable to me to be able to go out and just have a good time, even though your car's not complete is half the half the enjoyment of working on cars, you know, you're never completely done.

And you know, I have my project cars and I love driving them around, but this ordinance and the heavy fines are going to keep people who are at a younger age, me only being 20 from being able to enjoy our cars and being able to enjoy the hobby and get into something that we truly enjoy and be part of that community in our town.

Instead, we'll have to go find other places to involve ourselves as well as with this being a noise ordinance, and um it seems like a lot of it is concerning the noise at night and you know, people getting woken up at 3 a.m.

due to loud bikes or throughout the night.

Um, I did wonder why this wasn't placed as a normal noise ordinance with a time limiting block, you know, between 10 p.m.

and 6 a.m.

you can't run them, and why this wasn't set like that, and instead uh an officer's discretion at any point when they pull you over throughout the day.

So like that that's all I really had on the topic, but it was something I was completely wondering, and if anyone could answer, I would greatly appreciate that.

Ash, thanks for calling.

No more.

How about in house?

Anyone last minute.

Good evening.

Hey, I'm Ryan Blue.

I'm a resident of Cheyenne.

I just wanted to add that um if we continue to impose more and more regulations, just to add to the point someone made about young individuals staying in this town.

Like I'm uh I consider myself pretty blessed that the only reason I'm even really stuck around this town after attending college here is that I got a really great job.

So at the age of 24, I can almost live anywhere I want to, given that my company has something there.

I stay here because there's minimal regulations, in my opinion, as of right now, and it's still not crazy big of a city.

But the thing it really lacks is things to do.

So this car thing, the all these car activities and events to me, are something to do to keep young people from like going to the bar because that's the only other thing I see advertised.

We have a million bars in town, but we know we have these car events only on Friday and Saturday nights half the time, maybe a Thursday or something.

So either way, then even the yes, there are bad actors, but it's even only on the weekends that people have to deal with it half the time.

Yes, there are other bad actors doing stuff every night, but I just don't think it's something that should be taken away from the youth because then yet then there's uh there's a lot of other people that might be in my situation where they can live here or they can choose to live elsewhere.

And if we drive away the youth, I just don't know what's gonna become of this city in the future.

And that's kind of my piece on it.

Ryan, thanks for being here.

Appreciate that.

Anyone else?

All right, last call.

All right, Mr.

Seagrave.

May we have a motion from the public service committee?

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on third and final reading.

And I still move.

Second.

Seconded by Mr.

White.

Mayor Collins.

At this time we'll go to the governing body for comments.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Mayor Collins, I have an amendment to propose.

I would like to propose an amendment that would be inserted after 10.24.200 as item H that would amend.

Hang on, hang on.

What page are you on?

I'm sorry, it's um on the bottom of page, it's on page two of five.

And inserting after G section H before section two.

Okay.

Um and it would be to insert to amend um this ordinance uh to include uh a review after one year um of this ordinance being in place for this to body to uh bring this back and to review it and to look at the data that's been collected um by the um uh local police department as a result of this um ordinance being in initiated second so we have an amendment to create a new section H that would basically give it a sunset well wouldn't but sunset just a review please okay and that was Mr.

Royble Yes All right as we always do we have a motion and a second um hopefully everybody understood the the uh uh the amendment which would require the governing body a year from now to take a look at this and see if it still makes sense um we'll go out to the audience see if any does anybody has any questions um or comments on that hearing none how about from the governing body yes sir Dr.

Aldridge Mayor Collins for you um I the reason that I am proposing this amendment is um because I think that we there have been a lot of questions raised I think there's been questions about um federal guidelines and vehicles that are coming um from the factory stock that are um loud in themselves uh we also have some questions about modification how this is going to be implemented uh because it really looks at context rather than a decibel levy level um this ordinance does remove the 80 decibel level and it gives the uh uh police officer a lot of um um a lot of uh leeway if you will in and context giving this in context we also have part of this that um ordinance that uh talks about modifications only if they're modified in order to increase noise or smoke so I think by implement I think that we've made a huge impact already just by having this conversation um we've had a lot of uh I think a lot of policing done by the car community and motorcycle community of their own members and that we're making great progress I'd like to be able to um find some common ground and um if we try this for one year and then we look at it a year from now and it's not working or it needs to be tweaked or it needs to be changed we can make those changes um but setting that amendment of a one year review would um make sure that it comes back before this council as um the same elected council and also back before the community for public input Mr Seagrave did you have a comment Mr.

Mayor I was just curious who's going to do this who's gonna do the review what department who I don't know I was just curious Mayor Collins through you it would be the council reviewing the data that's provided by the police department as to how many tickets have been issued what types of tickets have been issued around these this ordin particular ordinance Mr.

Mayor Mr.

Seagrave we can do that at any time six months nine months twelve months I'm I'm not sure there's anything significant about 12 months I think we could do this at any time so I'm not sure this is needed.

Dr.

Emmons thank you Mr Mayor um kind of threw my whole brain off when you want me to come back to you no no that that's okay.

Sometimes that happens to you um I am in support of this amendment barring the concerns that um Mr Seagrave brought up for the reason that um I'm really struggling with this I had come in here to be quite honest to just pass this and be done with it.

I had come in here to be quite honest to just pass this and be done with it.

However, I think some excellent points have been raised.

And I I'm really concerned about whether or not what we have on the books now can take care of it, which is something that we could look at if the issue is racing rather than noise, or if the issue is speed rather than noise.

So I would speak in favor of that amendment.

Dr.

Renee.

Mr.

Mayor have question for the maker of the amendment, or a couple of questions.

One, well, actually just have some questions.

One assuming the amendment passes would our attorneys prefer rather than the wording a year from now, have a date certain, such as September 20th, 2020 or September 30th, 2026.

Mr.

Brody.

Mr.

Mayor, John Brody City Attorney.

I guess there's to answer your question, I would ask another question, which is is it intended as just a one-time review or an annual review?

If it's just a one-time review, then in response to your question, a date certain is certainly um preferable.

And I believe this would be effective upon publication, which normally would be this Saturday.

Would be this Saturday, so my the second question was I don't know that I I don't object to the concept of the amendment.

Um again the the wording is such that we would review the data.

I want to make sure that the bringer is clear on what data she's anticipating to be presented, and then I want to know that our police department actually would collect that data or would have it available.

Thank you.

Mr.

Laborne.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I have uh several questions myself.

Um I correct in understanding that uh the uh section here that uh authorizes the officers to make a determination uh excludes uh the other provision in our code of the 80 decibels, is that correct?

Mr.

Brody uh Mr.

Mayor, uh it doesn't exclude it.

I what this ordinance really does is create a another tool uh for the community or for the city to combat excessive noise, unreasonable noise.

So the uh the um the the noise ordinance in chapter eight with the decibel levels combats more stationary objects.

I think that's the basic intent.

So loud generators, loud noises in that regard.

It doesn't mean that it couldn't be used to um regulate a vehicle, for example, if that vehicle were just stationary and um you know they were you know law enforcement were able to um accomplish that.

Um but largely this is a separate tool that allows for law enforcement to have discretion and and make a determination based on the factors.

Thank you.

And maybe um the sponsor or someone else could explain to me some other provisions in our uh actions here that are similar to this, where we have uh the council itself uh looking at that information and uh then acting on it.

Is there any uh examples that you have of uh uh similar um pieces of code Dr.

Aldridge?

Mayor Collins for you.

Um I would point out that we have uh utilized this date certain with uh, for instance, the recently the parking garage reduction in rates.

We've also used it when we when we did the open container uh uh ordinance downtown that originally started out just being I believe it was Memorial Day to Labor Day and now is has that has been lifted.

So there have been several times in the last five years that we've used this type of uh review process, and it just assures while we can, as uh Councilman Seagra pointed out, review these at any time.

The likelihood that it's going to get done if it's not set forth as an amendment in this ordinance um is probably highly unlikely.

Mr.

Mayor?

Mr.

Laybour.

Well, obviously this is a motional and important topic.

Emotional on both sides.

And one that uh I certainly uh thought about and experienced in detail as we prepared this ordinance and as this discussion has occurred.

And I want to say that this is not a young people's problem.

I observe these vehicles on a regular basis, particularly downtown, and these are people of all ages.

Very little to do with young people.

And furthermore, I want to say that this idea that regulating this activity would drive young people away from our community to be very odd.

Our community offers many opportunities for all of us.

And what we're really talking about here is something that's unnecessary.

Anyone can enjoy their vehicle.

They can transverse the community, they can gather with their friends, but they don't need to make this kind of noise.

Mr.

Labour, we're on the amendment.

Are you on the amendment?

Yes, I am.

I think this amendment, uh, although it seems to be quite popular, um, we'll see how it goes, but I don't believe I do believe, Mr.

Mayor, and I think this is on the amendment, that obviously we are going to have quite a bit of discussion, quite a bit of activity in the police department and in our municipal court that is going to be complex.

No doubt about that.

There's no doubt that uh this is a uh different sort of an ordinance.

But at the same time, that's gonna happen.

You bet it is.

But if the will of the body that uh this uh come into being, I understand why, but I do think it's unnecessary, and really is going to be quite a challenge a year from now.

So I speak in opposition.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr.

Escobille on the amendment.

Yeah, Mr.

Mayor, through you.

Uh on and for the amendment.

Uh I would probably look at the issue that we had with our critical traffic control and some of the data that we got and reviewing data is always a good thing.

Um we didn't have to have a date on that review, but what we found with that is that works.

Uh the two places that we've uh instilled that, there have been more uh traffic tickets written there, and then and people have slowed down.

So we know that it works, and we know that the data is available.

And the more data you have, the better decisions we can make in the future.

Dr.

Aldridge, did you want to answer the question about what data you're looking for?

Uh maybe uh making it a date certain and uh we can get a comment from the police department on their ability to uh uh prove produce that report.

Yeah.

Um am I able, Mayor Collins, and I guess this may be a question for our city attorney to amend to from one year from today to a date certain to uh a year from Saturday.

Mr.

Mayor, yes.

The amendment belongs to the bodies, so we have to act on the amendment and then come back and amend it.

Okay, thank you.

Um so with that in mind, the data that I would be looking for would be the number of tickets that were issued uh utilizing this ordinance, um, whether they were related to modified muffler or uh exhaust systems, or whether they were um related to uh noise itself, or if it was a combination, also whether it was motorcycles or whether it was vehic uh uh uh regular vehicles, as well as uh different things like for instance the time of day as well as um location.

Uh Mr.

Jacobson who spoke to us um has done and brought forward to our the council members, I believe most of us, if not all of us, um, a lot of information from other communities that have um designated quiet areas, for instance around hospitals and uh residential areas.

It also has brought forward, he's also brought forward information about um time restricted and then also different decibel levels based on those areas.

So I think there's a lot of uh data to be gleaned from the ticketing system and um from our police department's experience, and I would look forward to seeing that um one year after this is enacted.

Captain James, Chief, one of you want to talk about uh the question on the police department's ability to collect that data and share it with us.

Good evening, Council Mark Francisco, Chief of Police, uh Mayor through you.

I did I didn't hear anything there that we couldn't do.

Okay.

Thank you.

Anyone else on the amendment?

All right.

The amendment is to uh have a review in one year.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye and those opposed.

No, Mr.

Lebourne and Mr.

Seagraper knows.

Uh Dr.

Alder, did you want to Mayor Collins?

Sorry.

Mayor Collins, I would like to um amend the uh new ordinance piece now to read that this will be reviewed by the city council um on is it the 20th what date is Saturday?

The 29th.

Mr.

Mayor, I the Monday would be uh September, excuse me, September 28th, 2026.

Okay.

Uh what I would ask is if perhaps it could be on or before.

Um that way we're not tied to one singular date that could be difficult.

Or maybe we would make it in October so that we'd have a year to get the data and then they give the chief police department time to make the review.

Honor so that we would review it on or before October 30th.

October 31st, yeah.

Yeah.

Of 2026.

Second.

Okay, we have a motion to uh change that one re one year review to October 31st, 2026.

Um anybody in the audience want to speak to that.

So just so you guys know in our Roberts Rules of Order, the things that we have to be able to talk about now is just the motion that was made to change this to October 31st for this report.

That's all that's on the table at this time.

On the amendment, right?

Correct, yes, sir.

Okay, on the amendment, one of the other things I would like to have added to that is I want to know the number of dismissals that were by the courts for incidents that didn't happen.

So if I got pulled over and I went to court and the court chose that I wasn't there, I want to know those dismissals as well.

I think that numbers that information should be well, but she it was never mentioned in the amendment.

We can I think we can get that information.

Okay, it's good.

Because unfortunately, I think that a lot of this stuff is going to be dismissed by the court on some of these charges because it's subject to it's a subjective thing for the police department with if it's loud or not loud.

The amendment is uh to talk about October 31st.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Mr.

Ergon, did you want to speak to that October 31st date?

Gotta push that button for us, sir.

Uh I like the one year amendment.

Uh, and to address Mr.

Seagrave.

I think this problem's kind of gonna go away with the weather.

Uh our hot rods, our modified cars, we're gonna put them away.

Motorcycles, it's getting cold.

They're gonna go away.

You're not gonna hear this so much.

So I think a year is a substantial amount of time to accumulate the data that we need, because I think come we have a longer winter than we have a summer.

So, you know, I think we'll get better data with the year uh than three months.

Maybe it'd be better to go short.

Uh then you'd have no problem.

Thank you.

I love that, Ms.

Aragon.

Anyone else on the 31st?

Please, sir.

Push the button.

Thank you.

Just one of the thoughts are is so if you guys do this on the men, you come back and you decide that maybe we shouldn't.

What happens to people that maybe within that time did end up going to jail?

Those are my my thoughts, because if they by chance do get three because they are modified, as some people have mentioned.

The other part is I mean, replacing new exhaust is $1,500.

So if someone doesn't have the ability for those funds, but you come back and you see that there is a different result.

What happens to those people that have already had to pay for those consequences based on our results coming back that maybe it wasn't substantial what we should have done?

So that's one.

Number two, is there a way to find out if it was actually something that was tested with an actual DB or if it was a discretion of the officer?

Is that a way for a report to find out as well, too?

I believe that that's part of the the report, wouldn't it not be or the uh uh the police report?

Mr.

Mayor, yeah.

Uh there are two different code sections.

So law enforcement would cite the decibel meter provision.

So thank you.

Yeah.

If I could, you guys just I know there's been a lot of talk about, and I know we're on the amendment, but it just keeps bringing up the jail thing.

Um there's a state law that says that uh we have to be consistent.

We don't have we can't we can't reduce that.

Um Mr.

Brodie, could you uh describe that real quick?

I don't remember the wording uh of why it's in there and why we can't remove that.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, yeah.

So there's there's a body of law, state law um called uh what that falls under the uniform act on regulating traffic on highways.

I think it's it's it really rolls off the tongue.

Um but it includes you know multiple chapters um that regulate traffic, and one of the requirements of that act is that all traffic laws throughout the state of Wyoming have to be uniform.

So there's a state law that regulates noise and that regulates mufflers and exhausts, and that is included in this ordinance, and as a result of that, um the provisions or the penalties in this ordinance have to be the same as uh state law.

Thank you.

And Mr.

Brody, just so I understand it too.

It doesn't mean that the prosecutor and judge have to put them in jail for a third time.

It just means that is a potential penalty.

Yes, sir, and I I I guess what I would say is that it it is it would be extremely unlikely for a person to go to jail under this ordinance.

Um if anything, jail would be maybe uh imposed part of the sentence that would be then suspended and person would be on good behavior, for example.

Yep, thank you.

You guys it's been mentioned a half a dozen different times, and I just thought at least you would understand why it's there.

It's not something that we arbitrarily put in.

It was its requirement.

Okay, we're on the October 31st date.

Uh Jennifer Uh, Mr.

Smith, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Welcome, Mr.

Smith.

Mr.

Smith.

Okay, I'm gonna give him a minute.

I'm gonna go to Mr.

Sheldon.

I'm on muting him.

Mr.

Sheldon.

Uh, yes, can you hear me?

We can.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Alan Sheldon Ward 2.

Um, I agree with the um the review, and I I think season October is also good gives the police time to go through that data and do uh um more thorough analysis.

I would say that you probably would get better data um if you were to remove the um or modified wording from um 10.24.200 D5.

Um because that would basically remove the case.

Mr.

Sheldon, we're not gonna relitigate that.

Thank you.

No, no, I know.

I'm just saying that you might get more data off of that because you're gonna be just noise.

Um but that's all I have to say.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sir Yeah, I agree with the amendment, but I would like to also be able to see data versus how many violations you had versus how many noise complaints you had versus how many noise complaints you had the previous year.

I'm not sure we have that information now, but we'll do our best to get that for you.

Um I agree.

Okay, Jennifer.

Can we try it one more time?

Mr.

Smith, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Mr.

Smith, are you there?

You're on muted.

But there's no sign that he's talking about.

Going once, Mr.

Smith.

There you go.

I hear you.

Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, sir.

Uh, okay.

Um sorry, I was experiencing some technical difficulties uh to to get in here.

Um I I kind of have a a quick thing to to say overall, if that's okay.

It's not.

We're on the amendment.

Um and the amendment is to uh do a report on October 31st on the uh results of the ordinance, and and that's really what we have to stick to right now.

Oh okay, I understand.

Um well while I understand the intent, a one-year review of a fundamentally unconstitutional law does not make it constitutional, and that the court legal defects will be just as present in a one in one year as they are tonight.

Um the the ordinance uh having the uh police subjective to being able to decide whether they want to enforce it or not.

Point of order, Mr.

Definitely not correct.

Mr.

Smith, thank you.

Appreciate you.

Anybody else?

All right.

Hearing none for the governing body.

Motion is to uh have the date of October 31st, 2026.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

That passes, and we're back on the main motion.

Comments from members of the governing body on the main motion.

Mr.

Lebourne.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Well, uh, I think that ought to uh help the understanding of the elements of how complex this matter is.

It is uh certainly something that uh I think we all know would be in the courts and with certain individuals believing they need to pursue their legal options.

So I uh did vote in favor of the date certain, and I think that uh that's worthwhile.

But I have some comments about this ordinance as a whole.

And this is one piece of very serious problems on our streets.

Very, very dangerous driving.

We have tried to uh increase the amount of enforcement we have of our existing speed limits, but I can tell you from my property at 1717 Warren, very few vehicles are passing that at any hour of the day or night at the 20 mile speed limit that is established.

Very few.

And I think there's a reason for that.

And also I would have to say that it doesn't take more than a few minutes, less than 10 before the next noisy vehicle speeds by.

I have a real problem in my backyard, and I want to enjoy it.

There's a lot of noise spreading from these vehicles and disturbing people.

Disturbing people that sleep at night or that's at work at night.

And I want to say this.

We're not on a regulatory binge.

We're attempting to do our job.

And the idea that we live in a place that is uh wild west free for all just isn't so.

There's a reason we have these codes.

There's a reason we have the police department enforce them.

There's a reason we have the courts interpret them, and there's a reason that we're up here tonight, and I hope that we'll pass this with the amendment so that some of these questions can be answered.

But this is necessary.

This is not an attempt to drive young people out of Laramie County.

Drive them to where.

Drive them for what.

This is really a community of wonderful people with a lot of options and opportunities for all of us.

But when some people believe that they can disturb others, that's why we need this law.

Thank you.

Any other comments from members of the governing body?

Yes, sir.

Dr.

Aldrich.

Mayor Collins through you.

Uh first and foremost, I want to just say that I really appreciate the amount of engagement from our community that we've had as we've been having this conversation over the last uh six or so weeks.

Um I think we've seen a lot of people engage on this topic that uh we might not have seen at another city council meeting or another um public services committee.

I think that it's it is tough because we're trying to balance um I have to tell you that noise complaints are probably one of our um most common complaints that we receive.

And um I think that it has gotten better since we started this conversation.

Um I've heard that from numerous people across the community.

I think that uh the car in the motorcycle community has really worked hard to police themselves and um to really take those bad actors out of the equation.

Um I don't want to see anyone not be able to enjoy their hobby or their passion um or young people um being able to be interested in things that would detract them from uh drug and alcohol abuse, and I agree that a lot of times um there are not a lot of activities that our young people see as being options outside of the addiction community.

But I do think that um there also is a need for um people to be able to enjoy um their community and um and I'm not all about peace and quiet, but I am that we have to all be able to live together, and we all have to share one community.

So um I have struggled with this um ordinance a lot as well, and have really tried to um see it from multiple perspectives, and that's one reason why I think the amendment will be helpful to review this in one year and see if it's really doing what we think it's going to do.

Um, because I also really struggle with um that we are asking our police officers to once again um day in and day out use their judgment rather than something that's objective to be able to document um this noise from.

But I'm going to vote for this tonight with the understanding that we're going to uh work as a community to review this in one year and to um continue to work to make it the best ordinance possible so that everybody can enjoy their hobbies and their passions and um our community to its fullest extent.

Ms.

Escabel.

Mr.

Mayor, through you as someone who likes to make noise and avid motorcycle rider.

I'm an Indian, I have a Harley, uh probably my loudest vehicles, my modern warfare three call of duty Jeep.

Um so I don't ask the public to do something I'm not one to, but there is a place and time that I do make that noise, and uh hopefully the public will also uh be considerate of everybody else's and uh we can all get along.

Dr.

Rainey?

Mr.

Mayor, I just want to add that this isn't it's a new ordinance or a different ordinance, but we have had a noise ordinance for for around 30 years.

So it's not like we're springing anything new on the public.

There's been one on the books.

That one was objective.

It did say that you had to measure, have a be over 80 decibels would measured at 25 feet.

That was totally unworkable with moving traffic.

So um, even though we've had an ordinance and all of you said we'll put something objective in it, that's not easy to do.

Um this is this one, so we're trying a different approach.

Um and I want to say the reason behind this, at least and I think most of my colleagues would agree, I have received more complaints about noise and motorcycles in the last two years than any other issue within the city.

So it's it is something I that we have all heard, and I know I can start writing down those emails.

And I mean, I've been stopped at the gym, and people have asked me, what are you gonna do about this?

So um so it is it is an important an issue that appears to be important to the community.

Um and as I said, we've had one, we've had an unworkable ordinance in place for for around 30 years.

So we're trying a different approach.

This is pattern after another community in the region that has had some success was that um you know, we can follow up with them after a year also and see what their what their uh success rate has been.

But and obviously if it doesn't work, we can go back, we can come up with a third option.

But but it has been an issue that has been important in the community.

I do the mayor has addressed the portion on um actually I want to go through this, we've removed the portion that just talks about modifying the system.

And so now it's a little more um modifying, you know, if you change the system and it actually makes it create more noise or smoke.

So just simply modifying your your muffler system isn't no longer a violation.

Um the issue again, the mayor addressed the which everybody has talked about jail time, but it you know, if you read it says that they may not impose except for that offense.

But then when you get down to the line after muffler vehicles excessive smoke and unreasonable noise for a third of subsequent offense and within 12 months, it says for an offense in that section, the court shall advise the defendant that the maximum sentence could be six months in jail.

So it's not an automatic sentence.

And honestly, that's not the reason why.

I mean, we really don't want to put in jail anyone in jail for this.

We just want some peace and quiet.

Um and lastly I had talked to some of my colleagues, and I talked to the chief of police about putting a curfew in, for example, 10 to 6 in the morning or whatever.

Um and we could always do that, or we could do that in the future, but you know, as pointed out every now and then there's some Yahoo that wants to make a lot of noise excessive, extremely excessive noise during the day.

And they shouldn't be able to say, well, it's not, you know, it's not dark, so I can do this.

So we've made a lot of we've made some compromises on this, and as the mayor told me once a long time ago, you know, usually if you have good compromises, both sides are a little irritated.

But any at any rate, as I said, we've tried something for 30 years with a measurable offense.

That hasn't worked.

So I'm willing to try something different for a year.

I like the fact I know people don't like the fact that it's necessarily up to the discretion of the officer.

But I do think the conditions in there, and specifically the ones about time of day and location are and whether pedestrians or other people are present, I think are important.

And that's really what we're trying to do is um, as I said, just not have something so annoying, so distracting that especially during the during the night and early morning hours, that we're constantly and continually getting complaints on it.

So thank you for letting me ramble on that, Mayor.

That wasn't as as succinct as I would like to be, but I will support the ordinance.

Mr.

Moody.

Thank you, Ms.

Mayor.

Through you.

And I'll first want to thank everybody for their public comment.

Uh glad to see you guys engage in government.

Um not gonna repeat what my colleagues said, but one thing to think about, I agree.

I don't want to be like Colorado either.

But you go to Denver and their suburbs, it is ridiculous how much noise their automobiles and their motorcycles make.

You know, I always say it starts with the small things and leads to pro uh bigger problems in a lot of these other cities that are poorly run, like Denver, Chicago, Los Angeles.

Small things can blossom up pretty quickly, and I don't want that to happen here to shy in.

And we heard that's why people move here.

I agree.

We don't want those problems that they have there in Denver in the suburbs or in Chicago.

So that's why I'll be an I vote, keep our community peace and quiet.

Again, we're not here to punish car enthusiasts.

It's just to make sure that again, we're going after the bad actors.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Any last comments?

Madam Clerk, will you take the vote?

Mr.

Layborn.

Definitely.

Mr.

Moody.

Aye.

Dr.

Rennie?

Yes.

Mr.

Royble.

Yes.

Mr.

Seagrave.

Yes.

Mr.

White?

Yes.

Dr.

Aldrich?

Yes.

Mayor Collins?

Yes.

Dr.

Emmons?

Yes.

Mr.

Escobel.

Aye.

This ordinance is approved on third and final reading as amended.

Number eight, ordinance, second reading, annexing to the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Various tracts of land completely surrounded by current city limits situate in eastern Cheyenne, generally located south of Del Range Boulevard, west of Dry Creek, east of North College Drive, and north of Cheyenne Street.

All right.

This is a city council goal to annex county pockets, which are 100% surrounded by the city.

It's our seventh grouping of those uh annexations with 35 properties.

And we'll go out to the audience to see if anybody has any comments on these annexations of county properties.

Hearing none, Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on second reading, and I so move.

Second.

Seconded by Mr.

White comments on the annexations by the governing body.

Mayor Collins, I have a question.

Yes, ma'am.

I'm wondering if we have had any um comments by the public since we last heard this in uh public service committee.

Mr.

White, any new comments since public service mayor and members of council, um, Connor White Planning and Development Department, Mayor through you.

No, we have not had any additional phone calls or comments about this county pocket annexation.

Thank you, Mr.

White.

Any other comments?

All right, we're on second reading.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

This ordinance is approved on second reading.

Number nine ordinance, second reading, amending the official zoning map of the city of Cheyenne, establishing the zoning classifications of AR agricultural residential, MR medium density residential, M UR mixed use residential, and M U B mixed use business for land annexed to the city of Cheyenne, generally located south of Del Range Boulevard, west of Dry Creek, east of North College Drive, and north of Cheyenne Street.

All right, might say it every week, but when we have a state law, this is when we annex property, we have to give it a zone, a city zone.

And we try to give it the zone closest to what the underlying zone was in the county, and that's what we're doing here today, establishing those zones.

Anybody here want to talk about the zones that we're establishing?

Hearing none, Mr.

Seagrave.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public services committee is to approve on second reading.

And I so move.

Second.

Seconded by Mr.

White.

Any comments from members of the governing body?

Hearing none on second reading.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

The ordinance is approved on second reading.

Number 10, ordinance first reading, amending section 2.2.8 assigned zoning of the Cheyenne Unified Development Code to conform with the comprehensive revision of Laramie County zoning regulations.

We're send this one to the public services committee.

Number 11, ordinance first reading, amending section 8.60.050 weeds as a nuisance of the municipal code of the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming, to revise and clarify provisions and specify conditions under which vegetation does not constitute a nuisance.

We'll send this one to the public services committee.

Number 12 ordinance first reading, amending the official zoning map of the city of Cheyenne, changing the zoning classification from P public and MUB mixed use business emphasis to CBD, Central Business District for land located between O'Neill Avenue and Carrie Avenue, north of West 19th Street and south of West 22nd Street.

We'll review uh send this one to the public services committee.

Next item is number 14 on page three.

Resolution reappropriating the fiscal year 2025 budget of the city of Cheyenne according to the provisions of Wyoming Statute 16 4-112 and 16-4-11.

All right.

We uh few times a year reappropriate our budget to uh uh take care of new items that have revenue and expenses that may have come in.

Uh we'll go out to the audience.

Is anybody here to speak to the reappropriation of our 2025 year fiscal year budget?

Hearing none, Mr.

Layborn.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation could you excuse me?

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the finance committee is to adopt, and I so move.

Second.

Seconded by Mr.

Escapel.

Comments from members of the governing body.

Yes, sir.

Dr.

Aldrich.

Mayor Collins for you.

I just wanted to uh acknowledge that our um treasurer and staff have done a uh good job of explaining all of these um reappropriations and appreciate the hard work and effort on behalf of our department heads um at the savings that and the um ability to um be good stewards of uh city dollars.

So um appreciate the money that they have uh saved year over year and uh look forward to seeing what that total might be by the time we get to the end of the year.

Any other comments?

Hearing none, all those in favor of the resolution please signify by saying aye.

Aye, those opposed?

No.

Mr.

Moody is a no.

The uh resolution is adopted number 16 resolution directing staff to let bids for striping parking spaces and painting curbs in the downtown area.

All right.

We'll go out to the audience to see if there's any comments on uh uh resolution directing staff to let bids to stripe downtown parking spaces.

And good evening.

Good evening, everybody.

Rob Dickerson, Boyd Building downtown on Carey Avenue.

Um I just want to make a general comment about the parking striping.

This body accused us of coming out of the woodwork when we had issues with the parking uh paid parking debacle last spring, and I think we've been a very proactive group ever since then to um you know be mindful of what's going on in the community, participating in the community, so on and so forth.

I think the issue that we have today is the um with the parking striping that has happened so far, is we were not aware uh that it was starting so soon.

Uh some of us, including myself have made extensive comments on the plan that came out at the end of July, uh, provided those comments, and from what I can tell, those comments have been literally ignored.

Um I have um the parking on carry from the alley uh just north of the municipal court building up to the corner of 18th street that previously had two spaces and I don't know how many feet of of no parking zone delivery zone.

I now have one parking place, and I have about 90 feet.

Uh Jamie at the boardroom went and measured it this afternoon.

I have about 90 feet of no parking loading zone for an office building that's there for the mail, UPS, uh, and FedEx.

Um the the reason we were given was that the spaces have to be 22 feet, which I understand is the regulatory aspect of this, but according to my quick research this afternoon, Ashto does provide some level of variance for historic districts in terms of of reducing those.

But the simple fact is we could have made that two parking places and reduced the no parking zone and still had the same no parking zone and delivery zone.

So my comment really is we're here.

You've asked us to get out of the woodwork and be part of the the processes.

We are trying to be part of the processes, and frankly, we've been ignored, and I'm frustrated by that.

Rob, I appreciate you're out of the woodwork, and um sorry you're feeling frustrated.

It's nice to see you without your boot on.

Oh, it's lovely to be without my boot.

Uh Corey Lothrie.

So uh I'm just gonna echo what Rob said.

We've tried really hard to be involved because we played a part in the uh on street parking endeavor, and so we had a couple of priorities.

One was the garage, which this council was great in helping lower the fee.

Um, and Jason and his crew have been phenomenal.

The changes to the parking garage are are just out of this world, and people have commented on how nice it is.

Once the transit center moves back, um, I think we are well on our way to really knocking that problem off.

The second priority we asked for was striping and delineating.

Um this happened a couple of weeks ago, just driving downtown one morning, there's two streets half a block striped and delineated.

Neither the business owners knew, we didn't know, so we reached out.

Hey, what's going on?

What's the plan?

Is there a plan where businesses can be aware how is it going to impact their businesses to have the street closed that day?

Um, what is the long-term plan?

What's the timing?

And really have gotten very few responses.

The DDA briefed at their last week meeting that it was all a pilot program, and the I'm paraphrasing the cheapest paint possible would only last two years, is what was selected because at some point someone will use some criteria to judge if it was a successful program.

We asked who who's judging, what's the criteria for judging?

No answer.

Uh then last week there were other two one-half blocks painted, those were on carry.

Um, both Sam Galliotis and Rob submitted input, and neither was addressed.

So what we were told what would happen is the contractor published the plan.

There was a public uh input period online and in person.

The DDA held a forum.

Every it was quite well attended.

A lot of downtown business owners submitted their input.

Uh then the plan was supposed to be, it would be incorporated by the contractor, it would come back out, we'd have a discussion, and painting and striping would be well on its way.

So what we have now is guesswork because we're really at the bottom of the totem pole of trying to find out information.

Um we've asked city staff, we've asked the council, we've asked the DDA, we've gotten a little pieces of information, don't even know if it's accurate.

So just trying to find out if there is a plan, what the plan is, uh why is it a testing pilot thing?

Why are we using cheap paint?

So all the questions.

Thank you.

Thanks, Corey.

Anybody else in the audience want to speak to painting parking spaces?

Hearing none, Mr.

Layborn.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the finance committee is to adopt an ISO move.

Second.

Seconded by Mr.

Moody.

Comments from the governing body.

Yes, sir.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Mayor Collins for you.

I um want to say that one of the reasons that this resolution is coming forward is because we had not seen as a council any action taken on this.

And um, we know that in Wyoming we have two seasons.

We have road construction and winter, and we're coming up on winter, which uh last a long time.

And we wanted to make sure that we got as much done this year as possible before the weather changed.

So this resolution uh was set forth to do that.

While this was going through the attorney's office and through the process, then we heard from our downtown business owners that all of a sudden people were showing up to paint.

Um, unbeknownst to myself as a council member, maybe other council members were aware of that.

Um, and then we found out that uh just in listening um last week that we were using the cheapest paint possible because this is a two-year pilot project.

So in an effort to uh make sure that we have the funding in place and that we can take advantage of utilizing the good weather while we have it.

Um this resolution was brought forward to try and um make sure that uh the staff is directed to um let the bids for striping the parking spaces and painting curbs in the downtown area.

Um, and specifically making sure that we're including Warren and Lincoln Way and Central that I know had come into question about whether those were going to be done because of the State Highway Department's um because it was actually our streets that the State Highway Department is involved with.

Um but this is um I know that some of this has been done with funding from the DDA evidently, and uh it was just shared with by the chairperson of the DDA that more money has been designated last week at their meeting to go towards this cheap paint and parking and striping and delineation.

Um but I don't believe that there is enough funding, nor does the mayor's office staff have enough authority uh financially to get this project done um completely without coming before the council.

So with that that is the um the genesis of this uh resolution, and hopefully we can all get on the same page so that um our stakeholders and our citizens um aren't looking to us for different answers and hearing different answers and different information from different departments, councils, and employees of the city.

Mr.

Escobel.

Mr.

Mayor, through you, I think going forward, one of the things I'd like to see either from the DDA or from the downtown business or the collective, is how much are these loading zones really being utilized?

It's been my experience that a lot of trucks will just stop on and block one of the lanes, put on their flashers, and then they'll uh the traffic will just go around them.

So if we can get some more information about how often those loading zones are used, and then uh I think that would probably alleviate some of the the issues we're having.

No.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Mr.

Mayor.

Dr.

Rainey.

I guess I did um listen into public service on the last Monday.

And I know that your chief of staff gave a report, but I think you know, since I guess I kind of like to understand to me this seems a little bit like micromanaging because it seems like you already have a plan that we're moving forward with.

Um secondly, at one point I thought we had agreement between shared expenses between the DDA and the city of using the six penny fund.

This specifies is the intent of the sponsors that be solely spent out of the six penny fund and not use DDA monies, because that's the cycle aspia for the resolves seem to say that.

Um secondly, do we have do we already have a bid out there that we've accepted?

Or do we have to send out an RFP to get this going, which means nothing's with those timelines, nothing's gonna happen before spring anyway.

So can somebody address those questions?

Mr.

Codz for me.

Are you the best person to answer that question or who is sorry, Mayor?

I was just John Brody was showing me something in the ordinance, I mean in the resolution.

Can you repeat it, please, Dr.

Rennie?

Maybe.

Mr.

Mayor.

Um the the question is does the city already have a plan in process moving forward?

And what is that?

Secondly, is this going to speed anything up if we have to go out knowing the city's processes, if we have to go out for RFPs, nothing's gonna be done for six to eight weeks anyway.

Um lastly, I think was it the intent um because I had understood there was agreement between the DDA and the city to share this cost.

So is it the intent to have the city um which Engineer Cobb, you can't answer a bit more of the sponsors can is the intent to use only six penny funds and not DDA funds?

Mr.

Cobb, you want to answer as much as you can, sir.

Yes, sir.

Mayor, through you to Dr.

Renny.

So to start with Dr.

Rennie, so to put something out for bid, if you were looking at this resolution overall for the size and the area that um Dr.

Aldridge has described, um it is first of all beyond the scope of the original consultant, the area and the map that I I kind of put something together for the chief of staff.

But if you let's see if we can go back to the Mr.

Mayor, I just want to let you know also that I do have Sophia Mays on the director of the DDA, and she has her hand raised as well.

Thank you.

I'm trying to run this without it's difficult to see.

I can't get it to switch the slide for some reason.

Hold on a minute.

I am not doing a good job, Jennifer.

Sorry.

So the map on the top kind of shows the area and boundary, the green.

If you can go to the top on a number one, I don't know why it's not going up there.

I'll just define it quickly.

So the boundary area for what what is defined in the resolution is larger than the consultant actually had planned to do.

Okay.

That's the first component of this.

So that boundary would be impossible with the timing it's left.

We're basically the end of our season.

So why I'm saying this is because all the contractors are completely full.

So you you picked the timing year that they've already got jobs that they've established.

Um it would be impossible to have it done this year for what you're looking for, not not physically possible by any contractor.

And then the process just for bidding a loan for advertisement and and putting putting the rest together.

Um the advertisement period, you're talking two weeks to go through you guys another four to six weeks, so that's eight weeks.

So if you had eight weeks where we are today, if this if this passed, um you're you're looking at two months, which then we're right in the middle of winter.

So the the size and scope are too large.

So if that's the part that I can answer so far, um, Dr.

Rennie.

I I don't think I can personally answer the rest of the plan that we have going forward.

I I actually I actually don't know the answer to that, Mayor.

Okay.

Sorry, Mr.

Mayor.

Mr.

Mayor?

Yes, sir.

I assume if we're out there painting some areas, and I think it was the area in red up there, which was determined critical at some point in the past.

Um I mean, we do have a plan, don't we?

And lastly, I another question I had with these boundaries.

Having spent a lot of time up at the legislature last year, I think we should if we're going to redo the boundary, maybe we should consider going all the way up to 24th Street in some areas.

Mayor Mayor, so if I may, so the green area is the boundary area that I discerned from the resolution that Dr.

Aldridge put together.

The and again, the the actual boundary of the plan area that was done by WHS is in you can see the red dash boundary around the edges, and then you see then the critical area identified basically in the parking studies to date is is the dark red area that is the pilot project that's been referred to for Dr.

Alt.

Yeah, Mr.

Royble.

The uh at our DDA uh board meeting, uh the your um city director city administrator Amber.

Yep.

Amber gave us a quick and dirty um overview of it.

I wonder if you wouldn't mind doing that right now.

Uh good evening, Mr.

Mayor, members of council, Amber Ash, Chief of Staff for the city.

Um so just to briefly encompass the project and where we are today.

Um this full project encompasses 56 blocks or over 30,000 plus or minus lineal feet of parking frontage and approximately 1750 spaces.

Um on April 9th, 2025, the mayor met with some downtown stakeholders to discuss their concerns, including the parking priorities.

Um and then on May 20, 2025, uh the contract was executed, was fully executed with all signatures with WHS.

On July 20, uh July 31st of 2025, WHS emailed that working set of plans um back to city staff, and then that same day um presented those working plans to the DDA board.

On August 14th, the DDA hosted the open house to solicit public feedback and comments.

And then on September 11th, uh striping of the pilot project began.

Today, ironically, happens to be the last day of summer.

So while we weren't able to finish it, we did get it started.

It's worth noting that again within four months of that contract execution from May 20th to today, the survey and design was complete.

A quote was obtained and the work began.

Which really, by government standards, um is pretty quick turnaround to make things happen.

Um staff is currently working to modify the plans to reflect the actual on-the-ground boundary conditions, such as the block dimensions, existing signage, loaded zones, handicap ramps, and handicap stalls.

Um the one other thing I would note, just in in regards to the concerns brought up about the loading zone.

Um in that particular case, there is uh 60 feet there um pre-existing loading zone.

The parking stall is noted as 22 feet.

Um that left roughly 15 feet.

That's not large enough for a second parking space.

So it wasn't that we took space away, it would just once we stripe it out and you delineate those spaces, that only left seven feet, or that only left 15 feet, which left a short seven feet.

Um that's not large enough for the second space.

Um, and so the conditions that we're working through right now, um, those boundary conditions, this is an example of that, are how do we um can we reduce the size of that space?

And our research indicates that that particular loading zone has probably been there since before uh Ted took over parking management um at CPD, which is probably over 25 years ago.

Um, and so the um thing that we're trying to figure out at this stage is with the USPS, we're required to um provide a clear area.

We don't know if that has to be 60 feet, if we could reduce it by seven to add a second parking space or not.

However, um we're continuing to evaluate and work through those on-the-ground boundary conditions, and then finally, what I would note is as was indicated, um not only does this proposed resolution not include the area around the Capitol, but it also doesn't include the area around the stencil building or the new apartment complex and Blacktooth going in.

Um and I think if this was successful and then something that we wanted to do, that would be an area in particular that we would want to look at highlighting or including going forward.

Um and with that I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Yeah, to follow up then, Mr.

Mayor.

So have what have we done so far?

Have we done the area in the dark red up there?

Um Mr.

Chair, through you, we are currently working to stripe our contractor um as our city engineer noted.

Our contractors typically have all their work set already for the year.

Um the contractor is squeezing this project in um in between other projects as time allows.

Um, and so they are doing the red pilot program area that we have identified up there.

Okay, so that will be done this autumn ideally, Mr.

Mayor.

Yes.

Okay, and then what then is the plan that we stop and evaluate that?

Are we going to continue on with more of the area next spring?

Mr.

Mayor, through you.

So the plan is that we will be evaluating how this works, um, including these issues that we're running into and as it relates to the boundary conditions and looking to integrate all of that and um look at rolling it out for bidding and hopefully work uh late spring, early summer next year.

Okay, Mr.

Mayor, thanks for the staff report.

And then uh I just some point when Chief of Staff Ash is done, which she may have other questions.

Um I guess I'd like the sponsors tell me then with that plan, what more do they want done differently with this resolution?

And I still want to answer to the funding on the second to last bit for the resolved.

Thank you.

Anybody else have a question for Ms.

Ash?

Mr.

Leyborn Ms.

Ash.

I've heard repeatedly here, and um it's very concerning.

The idea that uh the quality of the paint that's currently being used in that red zone is uh what what is the quality of that paint?

Is it uh usual uh paint that we use uh for striping streets?

Mr.

Cobb.

Mayor Mayor throw you to Councilman Labourne.

So that's sort of a misconception.

So what should have been stated is this is a waterborne paint.

It's standard traffic paint, high quality, standard traffic paint.

If you want a more permanent, the two-year cycle is based on wear and tear on the surface.

It could be longer, it could be a bit shorter.

So for instance, snowplow, okay, is going to take off waterborne paint faster than epoxy paint.

If this is a permanent solution that you want to move forward with, I I would look at an epoxy paint.

No different than a high traffic area and a low traffic area.

We use waterborne paint all over the city in in applications that it's appropriate.

This is an appropriate application for a pilot program.

It's not a cheap paint, it's a standard waterborne traffic paint.

Thank you.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Um and just a note that the uh quote unquote cheap paint was actually used by the chief of staff at last week at the meeting.

But my question is what is the total amount of the contract to do just the red area that is currently shown on the screen with the water-based epoxy paint or water-based paint.

Mayor, I I'd like to try this one first, because I'm before I I'd like to not state that because I want to say there's a caveat to this.

There this was done as a fit-in project under a special circumstance by the contractor.

And so I can tell you the number, it certainly is published, but it wouldn't be representative of what I think we're going to get on overall looking at this as as a as a pilot project overall.

I think we should evaluate those costs after this pilot program is looked at and and look at as a boundary condition.

Some things are going to have to be modified here, and it would be a better representation to give you a number later, because you're going to run with that number if I tell you right now.

I I would like to have it in the record actually.

Yeah, I would too, please, Mr.

Cobb.

Um Mr.

Chair through you, I believe it was $9,087.

Mayor, I'd like to state one more thing.

Given the fact that that was just for the painting, that doesn't include removal of signs, removal and set of signs, um, removal of existing pavement markings.

That is just to put down the paint that was prescribed in the plan.

Mayor Collins, uh follow-up question.

Did that answer your question?

No.

So my pull-up question is this.

Okay.

Is that the $9,087?

So again, will that uh understanding that there's a lot of other expenses and things involved, will that complete with the signed removal, everything, the old paint removal, though that dark red area, the $9,087.

And because of what I'm trying to disserting, uh, Mr.

Cobb is if um the mayor's spending authority is enough to do this without having to have this resolution go forward.

Mayor through you to Dr.

Aldridge.

So you it does include everything, but then we're using some of our forces to remove and reset the signs.

Okay.

Thank you.

Other questions of Ms.

Mr.

White?

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor, through you.

When we first started discussing this back in April.

I believe there was some conversations about perhaps utilizing the uh work crew from the uh from the county sheriff.

Was that option you uh looked into?

Because it seems to me that that probably would have been done, or the painting and striping, we wouldn't have had to wait for a contractor.

Probably would have been completed in a much shorter time frame and probably much cheaper.

So was that was that considered at all?

I mean I can answer that question.

Yes, it was considered.

And and why wasn't it moved why didn't we move forward with it then?

Because we'd be done.

Yeah, I think you know, when we look at our downtown and and the curb appeal of downtown, we wanted to make sure that the folks who were doing that work uh were professionals and knew what they were doing, and we were not we were not sure that uh that crew, while they're very talented at helping with the uh cemetery work and things like that, that they would be up to the task of doing something like this, honestly.

That's what it came down to.

So just so I'm clear.

So we're comfortable with them doing other tasks uh around the city, but we're not comfortable with them painting lines.

Yes.

White I think when we drive down the road and and you see traffic lines and they're not straight and they're not square um I think that's a a reflection on the area that you're in and that was the concern whether they would have the the expertise and the experience to do that in a way that would reflect positively honestly I appreciate the I appreciate the honesty um I just wonder if if they would have been a a better choice Ms.

Ribble through you Mr.

Mayor we have um Sophia still online Sophia you should be able to unmute yourself welcome Sophia hello can you hear me?

Yes ma'am and Mr Mayor through you uh my question to Sophia is can you outline our uh financial agreement with the city of Cheyenne the DDA as far as the uh striping funds yes I can Sophia May's Cheyenne DDA our striping funds they are coming from the Cheyenne Laramie County uh economic development joint powers board so no millvy funds or excuse me no mill levy funds are being used for this project um we agreed to use uh pay for 50% of the design cost and then the remaining funds were to be used for the first phase of implementation um so that's about five thousand two hundred and fifty dollars that was the purpose of that grant awarded to us by the joint powers board was for this project um I have a couple of other comments but that was your an answer to your question Sophia did you have something else you wanted to say to us yeah I have a couple of other things um I apologize for saying cheap paint I didn't realize I was saying that um it's the it would have been the most affordable paint up to traffic code um traffic paint code that was one of our main concerns of with this project the whole time in consulting with the engineering department was that the correct paint or at least traffic rated paint would be used um so of course we're using traffic rated paint um I believe Mr.

Dickerson made a comment earlier stating that there was frustration about the zoning this loaning loading zone that was being um striped and so that I guess is an example of I'm a little bit glad that maybe we used some paint that that was didn't have the longevity of the five year paint um because this is a a new project and new striping that we're trying to implement or that the city is trying to implement and we'd want to make sure that we get good results for the long term.

I do want to say there was a question that Dr.

Aldrich asked I I emailed Dr.

Aldrich and Mr.

Moody Councilman Moody last week because I've been trying to figure out how to help with the prioritization and the phases the phasing for this project for the rest of the the downtown scope and I cannot find the recommendation in the 2017 um parking plan.

And so when I when this issue was brought to me in March when I first started with the DDA um it was it we there was references that this was in the 2017 plan and they the downtown stakeholders hold holders had been waiting for a while for this to be done.

And so in regards to the lack of prioritization or a plan to get this done it it does seem from my understanding that this was really um not necessarily on the city or the DDA or the MPO's radar until very much so recently um so we are trying to get it done trying to work with the the city engineering department and the mayor's office as quickly as possible to get it done um with you know fast work um sometimes things get missed I will say to uh councilman white um your question about using utilizing the sheriff's work crew the building department I did speak with them as well as the construction department with the city and our city code actually does require a license to paint parking stripes and I do know that um miss lawfree did submit a design in I believe April in order to get a right of way permit to be able to paint these these uh lines as a as a volunteer work crew and whatnot and um it's just something that the it seems that the the city wasn't necessarily comfortable with um especially because there needed to be a licensed contractor to at least monitor and supervise the sheriff's work crew um per city code if that's something you all would like to look into to make that a little a little bit easier to to access that's that's I'm sure something we could talk about um I let me see here um yeah I mean this is something that I think is important um to delineate downtown parking places but um you know it to do a good design because it does affect not just the downtown property owners and the business owners it affects everybody that visits our downtown so we do want it to be done correctly and um I personally have not been on any of these email chains or or I'm I have not heard of any of these questions after this

volunteer work crew and whatnot and um it's just something that the it seems that the the city wasn't necessarily comfortable with um especially because there needed to be a licensed contractor to at least monitor and supervise the sheriff's work crew um per city code if that's something you all would like to look into to make that a little a little bit easier to to access that's that's I'm sure something we could talk about um I mean see here um yeah I mean this is something that I think is important um to delineate downtown parking places but um you know uh to do a good design because it does affect not just the downtown property owners and the business owners it affects everybody that visits our downtown so we do want it to be done correctly and um I personally have not been on any of these email chains or or I have not heard of any of these questions after this striking has started to be implemented so I would I would appreciate if I would um be able to be included in any of these thank you thanks Sophia appreciate you all right where are we we have a motion and a second and we're going through the the governing body Mr Seagrafe Mr.

Mayor the uh public made a comment that the businesses had not been notified of these um temporary pilot painting I think that's uh something we should address I think the businesses need to know when when the work crews are going to be in the area if we can agreed Mr.

Thank you Mr Mayor I believe it's only appropriate that we look at the history of this issue over the years and it's quite a history it's a history that I'm very familiar with due to my property where our residents depend on street parking for their parking and have since the building was built so um I've seen a lot of this over the years I've participated in painting of and striping of these areas in the past and I would point out that things have always proceeded on one basis and that basis is when the parking meters were removed the striping began so it's nothing new it's nothing complex it's nothing that uh I believe it ever justified uh the expenses involved in an engineering firm because we already had a pretty good idea what was out there and then as time went on uh the Americans with disability act uh came into being and those spaces of handicapped accessibility became identified and they were painted blue and then we go down the road a few more years and the city quit striping they quit the and and I believe that unquestionably this is public works uh the department that did it and when they ceased to do it and relied strictly on the signs it was uh very inefficient and infuriating the people who got those uh citations in an area where uh it wasn't clear or perhaps also um at a fire hydrant um and I want to really make this point Mr.

Mayor no one that I know and I'm down there every day and I certainly talk to uh some of the people that spoke tonight no one wants anything more than a well planned effort with information available to the people involved so that we could do what I believe is our intent and our intent is to squeeze every legitimate parking space we can find out of that area so that we can maximize what we have and understand of course that changes occur but throughout the entire district and in the red district uh that is the test area you have numerous cases and numerous cases that were referred to earlier tonight outside the Boyd building where extensive areas were uh painted yellow and then that was no longer a citable area you have other areas where uh and there are quite a few areas where there were loading zones they're no longer evidently loading zones for the purpose uh that they were intended yet you still have that faded yellow on the curb this is very confusing to the people that live here the people that park here the business people that try to do business here and if we were really going to have that opportunity to work together on that rather large area beginning with the red we could have done it together I am very interested in seeing my business succeed I'm very

This is very confusing to the people that live here, the people that park here, the business people that try to do business here.

And if we were really going to have that opportunity to work together on that rather large area, beginning with the red, we could have done it together.

I am very interested in seeing my business succeed.

And what is proper and what is not.

And yet, I've found that uh certainly the concerns that were brought up tonight are my concerns and their concerns that I think are widely shared.

And when folks are frustrated at, you know, they get angry.

I think that's a normal human reaction.

When you go through this process from April to May to July to August, and you get here, and you've got a partial effort, allegedly because they couldn't find anybody that wasn't busy.

I think you could have looked and found someone that wasn't busy uh some months ago.

And if this is the process that we follow, and the explanation that we get here tonight, that this is government and this is the way it works, I would suggest to you that that shouldn't be the way it works.

I think it totally legitimate and totally responsible, and especially a relatively manageable and minor item like this, that we all are involved.

That I don't go down and see that the entire length of 18th Street from Warren to I guess its pioneer was to be no parking today with no notification to those businesses, and I don't think, as far as I saw up till late this afternoon, any activity whatsoever of painting.

So if that isn't confusing and irritating, Mr.

Mayor, I don't know what is.

And what we previously had was a striped street.

It wasn't didn't have all the details we'd like to see now, but it was not uh without any sort of notification of where to park.

That got dropped uh as far as I could tell without any action of the council or any any rationale brought forward.

One year we just stopped doing it, and it has been so difficult to start up again.

I really wonder how a personality dispute can assume this kind of power.

I really wonder how we can believe that the processes here in the city of bidding of uh that we follow in many, many other ways in a much more timely manner can be held up as being normal.

There's nothing normal about this, nothing whatsoever normal about it, and I certainly hope that somehow we can proceed here because some of the comments that were made, of course, are entirely correct.

It needs to be extended up into the uh capillary that's always had parking trouble.

We need to make sure that we are coming over to this side of town, uh, certainly with the uh building that's going on up across the street here, but I can tell you that the people I talk to and the people I work with and the people that rent in my building have had it.

They want results, they were promised results, they didn't get results, and now we're passing it on to some unidentified uh possibility of it occurring later.

And I would also say this, Mr.

Mayor.

I know that there is frustration on the administration's part of members of the council bringing forward resolutions such as this that uh truly have a lot of questions with them.

But what is our alternative?

I don't see an alternative.

Um you guys have my cell phone number, you know where my office is, you have my email address.

Pick up the damn phone and call me and let's talk about it.

That's my that would be my suggestion.

Um if you want to question what's going on, you can talk to staff, but in the end, I think uh I'm responsible for it.

And if you have a concern that things aren't happening, you know my phone numbers, you have my email address, you know where my office is.

Come see me.

I would love to have that conversation, and I would do my very best to get the answers that are required.

I think that's my job.

So are we gonna do that this week, Mr.

Mayor?

I offered to have lunch with you, and you jose if you turn me down.

I'm not talking about lunch, Mr.

Mayor.

I'm talking about your office and the offer that you made.

I would love to do that, sir.

Anytime see if we can't set that up this week.

But I mean, I I I think that's the answer to your question, sir.

Um no one, not one person has called and asked me about that from this governing body.

And um, you know, if there's concerns enough that you have to write a resolution, but don't take the time to call me um in order to do that.

I find that lacking, sir.

Well, I find it lacking, Mr.

Mayor, that you don't seem to have followed this controversy that has uh occurred extensively over email that is uh brought forward here.

Um so you weren't aware of all that, Mr.

Mayor.

You know, as you know, I've been out of town for the last two weeks on vacation, but I was aware of it and I did communicate with staff uh as best I could from uh um from where I was at, and but uh um you know I have been gone and so no, I was not available in the last couple of days to do that, sir.

But uh again, my point is you know, if you or uh somebody else has a specific question about something like this, um I'm always available to have those conversations and would love to do it.

I look forward to it.

Thank you.

Dr.

Aldridge, Mayor Collins, through you.

I want to say that uh I wanted to answer uh can uh Dr.

Rennie's question about um if any other funds were intended to be used.

The um idea for identifying the funds to be used in this resolution specifically um was not to exclude any other funds being used, but to make sure that we had the funding identified for um this to be done.

Um our process is a lengthy process.

I've heard from three different business owners over the last week that if they ran their businesses like we run city government, that they would be out of business.

I have to agree that I it we have a slow and laborious process.

We also um in when I brought I worked on this resolution and uh visited with uh President Rennie about it, and he actually helped me to identify that funding source.

The idea was that because our season is so short, to get to bypass the usual um process so that we could get started on it sooner.

Um unbeknownst to me that it was already starting, and um so I am amenable to uh changing these boundaries, I'm amenable to uh doing whatever we need to do in order to make sure that we're getting this taken care of in a timely fashion.

We have drug our feet on this process for I it can't even tell you when we had a meeting three years ago at the library to talk about downtown parking and the striping and the delineation, I believe was actually in the uh recommendation out of the Hornley study.

Um pardon me.

Kimley Horn, sorry, did I say Hornley?

Kimley Horn study.

Um I know it was a recommendation by um the downtown development uh authority uh woodworkers or foundation group, if you will, when they put together their list of things that would be helpful in the downtown.

I'm just trying to move us off center.

And um I don't think that the communication, I think the communication has been lacking.

Um I'm glad you were able to enjoy vacation.

Um, but there had been other than seeing copies of emails that went out to um business owners downtown that we um had shared with us, there was no communication by anyone that things of this nature were already being done.

I found out about when I got a call or an email from a downtown business owner and said, Hey, you guys are starting the striping, and I was like, What?

We're starting the striping?

Uh so I I think that there's just been a lack of communication, and this was um my effort at moving us off center and moving us forward so that we're not gonna start behind the eight ball.

If we wait until next spring to do this, we'll be past Frontier Days again, we'll be back where we are now, and we can't continue to run a uh city this way.

Mr.

White, sir.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Through you uh my colleague from Ward 2, Mr.

Seagrave, uh brought it up, but I I had a question that relates to his comment.

How come the business owners weren't notified?

Don't have an answer to that, sir.

Honestly, don't anybody answer that?

Because if I'm a business owner and striping's going to take place outside my business, and I'm don't know about it, that's a day that I'm out of business.

Uh that's a day that I or a half day that I need to be closed.

And and then I find out about it when I walk into my store in the morning.

That's that seems that that seems pretty uh we can do better than that.

We we we should do better than that.

Mr.

Mayor.

Mr.

Seagrave, just one quick observation.

Um chief of staff was giving the timeline, not from three years ago, but from this year from April, May, June, July, August.

It seems to me that the uh administration moved pretty quickly.

They got the RFP out.

Uh the engineer did the basic study uh came back.

So I'm I'm looking at the timelines that we're talking about, and those are our timelines.

We require that.

State statute requires that we have so many days for the bidding process.

I mean, I'm not I'm not discounting the issues from a year, two years, three years ago, but from April until now, I don't know that staff could have moved any faster.

Where where would they cut a month out?

So I'm glad we're having the discussion.

I'm glad we're gonna work on advising the business owners, but I'm not sure there's a need for this resolution at this point with all the information I've heard tonight.

So I I will be a no vote.

Thank you.

And Mr.

Seagrie, you're right.

Um we can do a better job of uh communicating.

Um work hard to do that.

Anyone else?

All right, hearing none.

We have a motion and a second.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Those opposed?

No.

May I see the hands of the nose.

Mr.

Seagrave, Mr.

Royble, Dr.

Emmons, Dr.

Rennie, and myself.

This uh resolution fails.

Next item.

Next item is number 22A on page five reappointment of Jennifer Gadonis to the Cheyenne Housing Authority.

I would entertain a motion.

I so move.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Second.

Mr.

Royble.

All those in favor of the reappointment, please signify by saying aye.

I aye.

Those opposed, the reporting is approved.

Voucher report.

All right.

Is anybody in the governing body or the audience want to speak about the vouchers?

Next item, please.

Revenue report.

Same thing on revenue.

Anybody from the governing body or the audience want to speak about revenue?

Next item, please.

Announcement of a public hearing to be held on October 13, 2025 at 6 o'clock p.m.

in City Council Chambers 2101, O'Neill Avenue, Cheyenne, Wyoming, and via electronic conference meeting to receive comments and input for the Bell Building Urban Renewal Plan and Project is required by Wyoming Statute 15-9-109.

Announcement that a Calcutta benefiting special Olympics will be held October 24th to October 26, 2025 at VFW number 1881, 2816 East Seventh Street, Cheyenne, Wyoming.

10% of proceeds go to the charity.

So you saw we have to push the button and give us your name.

And I just got some new information tonight.

It's lasted quite a long time.

Um, and I appreciate all the activities and concern for the building to this date, the the property, and I understand the concerns for um safety and liability and for taking care of what is the city property.

Um the reason I'm here now is because several weeks ago I saw a newspaper article.

It was, I think it was um uh Wyoming Tribune Eagle social media feed.

Um I read something about possible demolition or sale of the property property, and just one of the comments stated that it'd been abandoned for over a hundred years.

That's far from the truth.

Um it was anyway, um, I've got a speech here.

Um I was really shocked and astonished, and I didn't quite believe some of the comments under the feed, or that there was a move to demolish an entire beautiful stone building.

Um there are more reasons than just the fact that it's it's an extraordinarily lovely piece of architecture that we or the city owns.

I just at that point I thought, wait a minute, I just need to get more information, and as well as just come speak out.

It's been years since I've spoken in front of more than a couple of people at a time, but this was I thought pretty important.

Um I've been here about 14 years now.

I moved back or I moved to Cheyenne from Laramie and Sogat Saratoga with my husband.

And I've been curious about this building all that time.

It's not as hidden as one might think with that cedar fence or that fence.

Um I've just been really super curious about it.

And I ride my bike around town all the time, in and out of Cheyenne, drive in and out of Cheyenne along that road occasionally, and I didn't understand why it was cowering behind a fence.

Um a couple of years ago I had an opportunity to help with a weed and a trash cleanup around part of the exterior portion of the building.

Uh I jumped at the opportunity to pull weeds and pick up trash because I wanted to know more what's up going on here.

So part of my um professional background prior to my retirement was um uh also my interest before retirement, it had to do with architecture and designing and producing museum exhibitions in interpretive centers.

So, of course, my my original thought was well, let's make an interpretive center about water, history of water use, it's adjacent to Crow Creek, all these different things, and I know that that is not that's not hugely saleable.

Um I mean, we rarely have fairy godparents to do things like that, although I'm anyway.

I'm not trying to get myself a job by any means.

Um the cleanup opportunity didn't really take that long, less than a full day, but the other participants, and there were I think around eight people, um, took us less than a day.

They helped me get to know the history of the property, and um the adjacent stonewonder under the railroad tracks, as well as um nearby Crow Creek, where, as it happens, there's a lot, or there's very much needed active weekend cleanups going on right now.

So going back to that original cleanup a couple of years ago, um, there was a break, and I took a walk on a gravel path toward the east part of the property.

There's a pond with with flowers and weeds and shrubbery and trees and the sound of birds.

Um the pond was a little stagnant, but it wasn't that bad.

That what there had been water moving along.

So it reminded me of a place that I used to go to during my college years on some Sunday mornings where I'd ride my bike, I'd sit and drink my coffee, and I'd read the newspaper.

Just enjoying a tranquil part of the day.

So I have some nostalgia with this, as well as um greater understanding now, and I feel a slight bit of ownership, even though it doesn't belong at all to me.

Um but it could belong really nicely to us.

So another thing I just learned a couple of weeks ago is that the building and the grounds were used by the city until the late 1980s, perhaps even into the 1990s.

How am I doing for time here?

I've got just one more.

Okay, I'm getting on.

Okay.

So it's not been abandoned for that long.

Um so to me, this means that information that's out to residents and visitors right now is really incomplete and really not accurate.

Um given our annual damaging hail storms.

Um with the with a potential purchase bids coming in, I think they're five or six, I was just told.

Um, one immediate and high priority really ought to be a new new roof for the historical historic structurally sound sandstone to keep it from being continually roaded.

As I understand it, as of two years ago, it was around a $70,000 expense, nowhere near millions.

So until these bids are worked through, that could be something that could happen.

I don't like to complain without having a couple of solutions.

Um some up-to-date security technology could be considered as well as a demo of less structurally sound um parts that are more modern or add on structures until the property is sold to a buyer who is able to care for the property within adaptive reuse guidelines, and given the requirements for the bidding, and given the historic nature of the same of the original structure.

Adjacent property owners thoughtfully and kindly keep an eye on the pump house at the moment.

It does seem unreasonable to expect that that is the only security for the property.

Um in conclusion, these historic properties and their stories are part of the reason that people come to Cheyenne as well as for a quieter environment.

Um there are some of the there's some of the drivers for economic development and security for our city.

I understand the desire and motivation to maintain vitality for government and private properties and to demonstrate that we are willing and able to care for our city.

The pump house should be included in what as one of those properties.

I don't think demolishing an entire building where the primary historic part of it was shown to be structurally sound quite recently.

Um it's not a good idea for the long term.

Uh this building has clearly been able to hang in there for about the 133 years, and with some immediate care.

Um, it could be of use for at least another 133 years.

So thank you very much for for your care and attention to to date.

Appreciate it.

Thanks for sitting through our meeting.

Appreciate you being here tonight.

Anybody else in the audience want to speak on our other business?

How about from the governing body?

Mr.

Moody.

Hey, Mr.

Mary through you.

Uh first uh happy Rosh Hasan for our Jewish friends and family, and is want to say um, you know, we all know what happened with uh Charlie Kirk, just good memorial service on Sunday and honoring him.

Remember, he encouraged debate whether you agree with him or not in our constitutional republic, and we saw we had very healthy debate tonight, so just gonna keep praying for uh Mr.

Kirk's family and his friends during the civic time.

Thank you.

Dr.

Emmett?

No, Miss Royal.

Just a quick question about uh something that she had mentioned.

Do we have five or six bids in the pump house?

Yeah, I'm not asware of any actual bids, but there have been a few people come and talk to us about it.

Okay, thank you.

Mr.

Seagrave.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Mayor, I would just uh like to thank Kylie for all of her help the last couple of weeks when uh Jennifer was on vacation.

So I appreciate all the extra work that uh that you put in.

You helped us a lot.

Thank you.

Anybody?

All right, hearing none.

We are adjourned.

Thank you all for being here tonight.