Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

I'd like to call the February 9th meeting of the governing body to order.

It is very nice to see so many people in our audience.

So thanks for being here this evening.

Madam Clerk, would you please take the role?

Mr.

Seagrave.

Present.

Mr.

White.

Present.

Mr.

Wolfe.

Here.

Dr.

Aldrich.

Mayor Collins.

Here.

Dr.

Emmons.

Present.

Mr.

Escobel.

Here.

Mr.

Leborn.

Here.

Mr.

Moody.

Present.

Dr.

Rennie.

Present.

All members are present.

We do have a quorum.

Will you please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

And to the Republic before we stands one nation under God.

Liberty, justice, consent agenda.

All agenda items listed with the designation of CA are considered to be routine items by the governing body and will be enacted by one motion.

There will be no separate discussion on these items unless a member of the governing body so requests and support by two other members is received.

Any item removed from the consent agenda will be considered in its normal sequence on the agenda.

All right.

Are there any items a member of the governing body would like to remove from the consent agenda?

Mr.

Mayor.

Mr.

Labour.

21A.

Concur.

Concur.

And also um 21C.

Concur.

Concur.

All right.

We have 21A and 21C removed.

Is there anyone else?

Hearing none, I wouldn't uh entertain a motion, please.

So moved.

Second.

Move by Mr.

White and seconded by Mr.

Seagrave.

All those in favor of the consent agenda with 21A and C removed, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

The consent agenda is approved.

Number seven A, public hearing to determine whether compliance of annexation conditions required by Wyoming Statute 15-1-402 exists for the city initiated annexation of 16 parcels of land, totaling roughly 49.4 acres, comprised of various tracts of land situate in western and southern Cheyenne, generally located east of I-25, south of the intersection of Westland Road and Missile Drive, north of West and East Allison Road, and east of and adjacent to North College Drive.

All right.

Turn on, and that way you'll know the microphone is on.

And it's very difficult for people sitting in that part of the building or for people online to hear if you don't bring the microphone right up to your face.

So come about two inches from your mouth.

Really helps make that more clear.

So if you do that for us, we'd really appreciate it.

Mr.

White.

Mayor and members of council, Conorway Planning and Development Permit.

Uh the sanction is for 16 parcels of land, totaling roughly 49.4 acres, generally located east of I-25, south of um south of the intersection of Westland Road and Missile Drive, north of West and East Ellison Road, and east of and adjacent to North College Drive.

This is a city initiated annexation pursuant to Wyoming State Statute 15-1-404.

Resolution initiating this annexation was adopted by the governing body on January 26, uh, 2026.

Personal to fulfilling uh the requirements of state statute, staff asks asks the governing body to consider the following.

The land proposed to be annexed is contiguous to current city limits.

Specifically, the parcels are 100% contiguous.

All city services and utilities currently available to residents of the city will be provided to residents of the annexed land.

Extending water and sewer will increase the health safety of the residents living in this area of the community.

The area to be annexed is inside the urban service boundary, and it is designated uh with mixed use employment, mixed or urban residential and mixed use residential by the future land use map.

Uh, this type of development is best supported by being within city limits and connecting to city services.

Certified mailing was sent to all landowners and utilities within the annexed area, not less than 20 business days prior to the public hearing.

According to the calendar, 20 business days prior to today's hearing was January 9th.

The certified mailing was sent out on January 8th.

The earliest confirmed receipt was January 12th.

And property owners within 300 feet of the subject properties were also mailed notice in that same time period.

This annexation is also accompanied by an assigned zoning ordinance.

A couple additional information points that I'll have.

On December 16th, 2025, myself and Fire Chief Dyke Shorn hosted a county pocket QA meeting for property owners within the um proposed pocket annexation.

Uh one property owner showed up to that meeting.

Steph has received comment from three property owners within this annex uh within this annexation to the property owners.

Uh do not have any concerns with the annexation.

Uh the third has a list of concerns, and the property in question is parcel four, which is the farm and farm stand on Walterscheide.

Uh answers to many of the concerns have been um answered within the council packet, which is an attachment for item 15 on tonight's agenda.

I would like to make one note.

Um, which is a correction for some of those uh for one of those um questions in there.

The annual property tax will only increase about 90 dollars, not as not what is listed within that um packet.

One of the concerns I would like to address that our office has had several comments about is the continued operation of the farm and farm stand.

Uh per state statute, land uses such as the farm and farm stand are required to be allowed to continue uh when the city initiates annexation.

In addition, staff is proposing the AG agricultural zone with the assigned zoning ordinance, which is item number 16 on tonight's agenda as well.

Uh the AG zone would allow the farm to be a use by right, and it would allow the farm uh stand to be a permitted use.

Adjustments to animal numbers uh within existing pastures do not require approval and can continue.

With that, I do stand for any questions.

Mr.

White, thank you.

Uh questions for Connor.

Dr.

Emmons, did you have a question?

No.

Sorry.

Mr.

Moody.

Yep.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor Three.

Uh, thank you, Mr.

White.

Uh, let's say uh parcel four wants to expand in the future.

Um, what would they have to do exactly if you can uh inform the public what would they have to do if they want to expand?

Mayor through you.

So expansion, um, because it is a permitted use.

We'd look at what that expansion is if it's adding a structure.

There'd be building permit requirements.

Um, depending on the expansion, there might be a site plan that's required just to notate what the expansion is.

Um, but that would be the extent of what the expansion would be.

Mr.

Moody.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor Through.

And thank you for that answer.

What would be the approximate cost low end to the high end?

Mr.

Mayor through you, I'm not sure what a building permit would cost.

It's based on evaluation of work.

Um, a minor site plan adjustment is a hundred dollar application.

Thank you.

Is that for Dr.

Aldridge?

Dr.

Aldridge.

Good evening, Mayor Collins.

Through you.

Um, I'm just wondering about the state statute um that um Connor, you just mentioned uh the state statute that allows the farming to continue.

Um, it doesn't it in the state statute, does it have anything that talks about the if they should want to expand or add animals, or does that change any of the considerations for uh how we've been doing these annexations?

Mr.

I could read the statute if if that would help.

Well, Mr.

Mayor, I can also add that yes, the state statute does state that basically any any use when the city annexes um is basically a grandfathered use.

That's why I did want to mention that staff is recommending the AG zone, which makes it a use by right and a permitted use.

So with it being a use by right and permitted use, they're allowed that expansion, allowed the increase in animals just by the zoning code itself rather than the state statutes.

Thank you.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Mr.

Wolf.

Uh, Mr.

Mayor, thank you very much.

Through you.

Uh Mr.

White, I'd like to take you through a series of questions.

Um, if the mayor will permit it.

Um, first of all, what's right across Waltersche uh to the east of this property?

That's this is the lot four that we're talking about.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, through you.

Uh to the east would be an apartment complex, as well as I believe there's a school, the boys and girls club, maybe a daycare on that side of the head start.

Right.

There's a daycare there, uh, as well as uh a lot of apartments.

Now, what about to the north end uh on the uh east side of Walter Scheid?

What's what's up there?

On the you mean if you go if you go north on Walter Scheid and the east side or on the east side?

That there's a big mo there's a big motel there, isn't there?

I believe so, yes.

Yeah, okay.

And just north of this property on uh the same side of the street that they're on.

What's there?

Uh all of that, mayor through you, all of that is single family housing.

Okay, and to the west of this property, what's there?

Uh single family housing as well.

And what's on the south of this property?

That I believe is an electrical or uh basically a service station for just the power grid substation, substation.

Well, and in point of fact, there are aren't there?

There are two WAP high voltage transmission lines, one on the north and one on the south.

Mr.

Mayor through you, that's correct.

Okay.

And um, isn't the greenway come down on the south side of this property?

Mayor through you, that is also correct.

Thank you.

Um, what's your understanding about how the property owners, Mr.

and Mrs.

Nicely current hand currently handle predators uh that um may be uh affecting their um their livestock?

Mr.

Mayor through you, my understanding is they do shoot the predators.

Uh so they do use firearms to kill those predators.

Okay, and and these are high powered rifles to shoot what kind of predators.

Mr.

Mayor through you, I'm not sure what types of weapons.

Um, probably foxes.

Maybe I've heard coyotes, those would be the two.

Okay.

Raccoons.

Mr.

Wolf, I've been told it's a 12-gate shotgun with number eight shot.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um, and what would they be permitted to do uh once this land uh if the land is annexed?

Mr.

Mayor, through you, my understanding is firearms are not allowed to be discharged within city limits.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Thank you, Mr.

White.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a bunch of chairs still here, and I see a lot of people standing.

Um, please make yourself home.

We're gonna be here for a while tonight, I think.

So uh don't be shy, just come on in to think of it like church.

We all like each other and we'll just find a place for everybody, okay.

Any other questions for Mr.

White?

Mr.

Moody.

Yep.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor through you.

Uh thank you, sir.

Have there been any reports that you can think of where they're discharging just a regular shotgun with these predators at all?

Any complaints, any police reports from the motel or property owners surrounding them?

Mr.

Mayor through you, I'm not aware of anything.

I did not research or dive into that.

Thank you.

Mr.

Wolf.

Mr.

Mayor, thank you through you.

Umor, how how long have you been talking with Mr.

and Mrs.

Nisley about the proposed annexation?

Mr.

Mayor through you, my understanding is my director, uh, Director Bloom has had email contacts with Mr.

Nicely since July of 22.

Um December 16th, that meeting I had mentioned, that was also a meeting where Mr.

Nicely, Mrs.

Nicely attended that meeting.

Uh so they were the only property owner that was there.

And then we've had contact the past couple of weeks.

Okay.

So you've you've been involved in in this proposed annexation of this property now for three years, three and a half years.

Mr.

Mayor through you, roughly three to four.

Okay.

And and within the last uh month or so, you've had uh obviously a number of conversations with the nicely's and exchanges of emails.

Mr.

Mayor through you, there have been email exchanges, not specifically with me.

I have been on those chains, but with Director Bloom and others.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Thank you, Mr.

White.

Anyone else in the governing body?

All right.

Connor, thanks for being here tonight.

All right.

This is your opportunity if you want to come up and address the governing body.

Uh we have a um uh a public hearing.

Uh we'll try to limit our comments if we can to three minutes, and we would uh appreciate it if uh y'all come and talk to us.

Good evening.

David, remember you got to push that button.

There you go.

Oh, I don't hold it.

No, we got you though, David Nisley 200 Walter Scheid.

Members of the council, thank you for being here.

Uh, thank you for your interaction with me, those of you who have interacted with me.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor, um, for a conversation even today and over the weekend.

And thank you for working on our behalf.

Um, thank you to planning.

Um, thank you to all those wearing green and those who are supporting us who don't wear green.

Um I'm here tonight to say um to all of you.

Let's be kind.

Let's be respectful.

Um, I'm here as a follower of Jesus to try to do what he'd have me to do, and and that's be kind and respectful.

Uh Mr.

Esquibelt, one of your your brother uh Floyd is one of my heroes.

Um, he was always kind and respectful.

Um, and and I appreciate him for that.

And I I trust you are too.

Um I've had interactions with um the Laramie County Sheriff's Department and reported to them that I had shot um predators who were attacking our livestock over the course of the years.

Um I've been assured by the sheriff's department and by animal control that number eight shot in a shotgun at short range is acceptable and appropriate and justifiable.

Um I have reported that to the city police who've been called uh because they've heard it and they assured me that it was within not only our rights, but safety.

Um, we're careful not to endanger the public.

We have had conversations.

I brought it to the uh tension of planning for three and a half years um that we're a farm with a big vision.

Um, and that we won't continue to only do what we've been doing, but we expect to grow and expand because that's the nature of farming.

And because the city of Cheyenne needs healthy food and healthy access to food.

Um my wife will tell you more about her big vision because she's the big visionary behind it, and you won't find a smarter, more beautiful person, but I can't find her.

I I thought she finally left me.

Um what I'm here to ask you tonight is the kindness because we didn't get notice until January 27th.

The post office didn't deliver it.

It was marked no such number and returned to planning on the 27th of January, less than two weeks ago.

We got an email from planning.

State legislature's intention is that we get notice mailed and received 20 days in advance.

So give us a chance to work it out.

Um, just this weekend.

I've been having conversations about working it out and coming to some conclusion.

I've been assured by the mayor's office that we have legitimate concerns.

It's being reserved in the packet we have.

Concerns that are bothersome to us.

But let's work it out.

Let's give us time to work it out.

I hope someone will make a motion and y'all will support it to postpone this action so that we can come to some understanding.

Just today, questions were asked, and the answers weren't known.

For three and a half years, I've asked questions like how will we protect livestock, or what happens if we expand?

And the answers haven't been received.

So please let's work it out.

Let's be kind.

Let's be respectful.

What's the hurry?

Why rush things?

I believe we can be a great positive force for the city of Cheyenne.

I believe that the city of Cheyenne in partnership with us could have a beautiful relationship, but we haven't started out that way.

Maybe it's me.

Maybe it's not.

I'm sure at least in part it is me, but I'm learning and I'm growing and I'm willing to learn and grow.

Um let's be kind.

Let's be respectful.

Thank you.

Thanks for being here, David.

Tommy, you might as well come up.

And do I have to Nope, it's on.

It's already on.

Okay, sorry.

I'm Tommy Nicely.

I'm the owner of YFresh Farm at 200 Walterside Boulevard.

And I am asking you to postpone the annexation of my farm.

I'm being told that if I think and behave small, that nothing will change.

The problem is I have big plans.

I am convinced by the documentation of your very own agenda and with the correspondences with city officials that anything more than small minuscule changes could and probably would trigger the requirement to bring Walterside Boulevard and Durr Avenue up to city code requirements.

That would require curbs, gutters, and sidewalk for over 1,600 feet.

That would cost me hundreds and thousands of dollars.

I cannot bear that cost.

Furthermore, our livestock will be unprotected due to current city codes.

These are just two possible consequences of annexation.

There are many others.

Please don't endanger my farm.

It's not too late to do better, Cheyenne.

Please postpone.

Tommy, it's nice to have you here tonight.

Thank you.

All right, push that button until the light turns green.

Seeing if I'm close enough.

Perfect.

Hi, my name is Chelsea Hacker McCord.

I live here a couple blocks away from this place.

Um would also like to speak regarding parcel for YFresh.

Um, first of all, I'd like to thank you, City Council members and mayor for allowing us to be able to voice our opinions to the public.

Um, I think that staying annexation or not annexing at all needs to happen in regards to YFresh.

Um, I'm speaking before you today in three capacities.

Uh, I am a member of the public, as I stated.

Um, I am a small business owner myself who sells through YFresh, and I am also a friend of the nicely's.

I have been actively involved recently with helping raise awareness regarding this issue.

So I'm instantly, I have intimate knowledge regarding a lot of the nuances that may have been misconstrued or confused.

Okay.

To begin, I want to be clear that YFresh understands that the annexation and zoning of AG will not initially cause them to stop farming, raising livestock, or operating the farm stand.

The harm comes through the unclear, unwritten city codes and ordinances.

The effect on YFresh will not immediately show up.

Um, the simplest solution to all of this is to just not annex YFresh.

I do, however, know and can understand that the city wishes for annexation.

If that is the case, I must ask you to please stay it for the time being until all the issues have been fully resolved and documented.

To illustrate this, I will address two different um specifics.

First of all, I would like to address how I believe that complete answers haven't been given and how those answers that have been getting many of those answers are incongruent with how urban agriculture works.

Okay.

I don't have very long at the end of my allotted time.

If I am unclear, please ask, and I would love to clarify.

Um, to begin, number one, many of the answers that are given are incomplete.

There is a generic statement providing no further clarification and then directing YFresh to obtain additional information from another department.

For instance, regarding farm stand licensings, the planning department has said that there is a 75 feature license.

This is helpful, and that YFresh will still need to comply with public health requirements.

Great.

And what are those?

Rather than uh providing those requirements specifically, YFresh has been directed to contact a different department to quote, obtain further information.

Although not their peer view, there was no verification by the responder that the further information was indeed given.

I remind you, it is the city that is pushing this annexation.

Furthermore, the city intends to annex still the land, regardless if answers are given or not.

Um, I feel like the city should at least verify that all questions and impacts have been conveyed to YFresh before proceeding with the annexation.

Um let me quickly reverse the roles for a minute.

If developer wants to come in and build something within the city, you guys would obviously have questions in order to evaluate and weigh all of the impacts.

Developer would answer some questions, but for some of them, they might just have the answer.

Please call this other person to obtain additional information.

Imagine that developer proceeds to build this building without the questions being answered, studies or plans being provided, or meeting additional requirements.

Basically, we don't care if you know, we're just gonna do it anyways.

Please provide YFresh with the same respect that you guys ask as of the city.

Um, ladies and gentlemen, I appreciate that you feel really passionate about this, but we're gonna be very quiet and just listen to the folks.

It's my job to try to keep order, and if we start talking like that, then it gets out of control.

So thank you very much.

I appreciate that you agree, but let's not do that tonight, okay?

Thank you.

Okay.

Due to time, I won't be able to touch on the second point that I wish to address unless you would like me to elaborate more.

But my conclusion basically is that this is not an unsolvable problem.

Many other cities have developed policies when encountering similar issues when incorporating urban parts.

Thank you.

Appreciate you being here this evening.

Yes.

Thank you.

Sheriff, welcome.

Thank you.

How are you?

Okay.

Go ahead.

Um, so thank you, uh, Mayor Collins and members of the council.

So I'm Brian Kozak, your sheriff, and uh, was asked to comment briefly on our mutual aid contract that we have in place with the police department because I know it's been a topic um reference um this agenda item about consistency of law enforcement services.

And so we have this mutual aid contract that um I allow the police officers to have full authority in the unincorporated areas of the county.

So, in other words, if you wanted to keep this as a county pocket, uh, we could easily set it up so that your officers would be the primary agency to respond to calls there.

So I just wanted to throw that out there so that you are aware of the agreement that we have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks for your service.

Sure thing.

Appreciate it.

Yes, ma'am.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor.

I'm sorry, I'm got a cold.

Tamara Thahill Ward one.

Sorry about that.

So I wasn't going to speak tonight, but I I feel like I need a quick reminder to remind everybody that this happened, this subject of annexing the farm stand happened when you guys started bringing the data centers, and you started wanting to annex all the South Side.

And we tried at a state level.

Even representative Burlingame.

It was her issue.

Then it went to Representative Stiver and myself.

Everybody is against this.

And we tried to change it at the state level so the city would have less control and less ability to do such things, but we didn't because we're leaving it to local control because they know better of what their people want.

You're not listening at all.

So maybe we do need to take it back to the state level.

That's all I gotta say.

Hello, sir.

Welcome.

Salve, my name is Richard.

I am the almost 14-year-old son of Tommy and David Nicely.

A Babylonian king.

I once built seven slayered palace, and it was a big green space just to impress his wife.

I am here to say that do not think of urban farms or what are by farm as a greed as an undeveloped greed-spotted giant which is, but think of it as a marriage gift to Cheyenne.

Virgil, the Roman epic poet, once said that he preferred his bees than to writing epic poetry.

If that is the case, then why should not we bring agriculture, horticulture and edible husbandry to a city?

As we have seen in 1900, about half the population of the states was urban, and half of it was agriculture.

By the 90s, 75% was urban, while only about 30% was agriculture.

By now it is even lower.

We have an ability here to make an example of Cheyenne to bring agriculture to the cities.

And we bring the cities to agriculture.

This will bring agricultural benefits, such as people knowing where their food comes from, giving people more choice about their food, while also bringing urban benefits to agriculture, such as more entertainment, more abilities for kids to get an education, more this is, I believe, will help make America a better society.

As we have seen within the last few presidential elections, we are already a divided country.

If we bring people of different jobs and different backgrounds together, we can serve to unify a country.

That is all I have to say.

You did a nice job.

Good evening, Mayor and Council, Kathy Sigliano.

I am speaking today as a Cheyenne resident who is incredibly frustrated by the proposed forced annexation of YFresh.

A small local farm stand that has become a meaningful part of our community.

What's more concerning is not the annexation itself, but the way the questions from the public and the business owners have been handled.

When residents seek clarity, we're told that we are getting misinformation, or that some of the officials are confused because they thought that the owners understood what was going on.

From where many of us are sitting, there has been very little misinformation coming from the public.

The confusion appears to be coming from the city, and even council members that have admitted that they can't seem to get consistent answers themselves.

That should be a red flag.

We also heard a council member tell this business that he believes freedom is a form of selfishness.

For a small local operation, simply trying to grow food and serve its neighbors.

That kind of statement is unacceptable.

Small businesses are not the enemy.

They are the backbone of our community.

Rushing forward without clear, consistent information only erodes public trust.

Figure out how this business can continue to operate and thrive without being forced into thousands of dollars in expenses for something they are not asking for.

Cheyenne should be a place where local agriculture and small business are supported, not steamrolled by process and confusion.

Please take your time and get this right.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor, members of the council.

My name is Patricia McCoy, and I live on the South Side.

These are my neighbors.

And it's not just about my generation's habits.

She was devastated and she was angry.

She didn't just sit by, she took to social media, posting a photo of herself with her local milk and her local eggs from her favorite farm stand.

She called on all of her peers to stand up and tell you no to save her farm stand that she likes to shop at.

The outpouring of support she received proves one thing.

The younger generation in Cheyenne wants this.

They want sustainability, they want local entrepreneurship, and they want the South Side to keep its unique character.

They are watching how this city treats its small producers.

The fear here is that annexation will bring a wave of city standard, red tape, and infrastructure costs that a small agricultural operation simply cannot absorb.

Have you forced this stand to come to code like a big box retailer?

You aren't improving our neighborhood.

We know there's hotels there.

We know there's apartments there.

We didn't want those either.

But you didn't listen then.

You don't listen now.

This is our neighborhood and our food.

We know where it comes from.

We know who grows it.

And we want to keep it that way.

So I would beg you, not ask you to postpone this.

Give us the answers that we're asking for.

Let our farm be as it is and let it continue to grow and thrive.

That will enrich our community.

Thank you.

Guys, please now.

Let's not do that.

I don't want to have to clear the room.

Please.

Thank you very much.

Don, welcome.

My name's Don Edmonds.

I'm at 7309 East Pershing Boulevard.

I've been to a number of these meetings, and I have seen just about every one of them that you have groups of people come in here and object to being annexed.

Well, the thing about it is I applaud everybody here that's here tonight in this annexation.

But the problem about it is I blame this problem on the city council and the city government.

Bring that microphone up and talk into the microphone.

I blame this uh problem on the council and the city government because you annex property willy-nilly.

Uh you create county pockets.

I live out on the east side of town.

We are so terrified out there.

I live on uh Purley Boulevard on the south side.

Well, I've got a city uh arm sticking out called Saddle Ridge out to Christerson Road.

I have another one going on the UP Railroad way east.

And unfortunately, or lucky for us, Christensen Road is not city yet.

But if it does get into the city, you're going to have a huge city pocket.

So that's why we're fighting on having Christerson Road not become county uh city prop uh street or anything.

But the thing is, I think the city needs to look into it.

And when you do an annexation, are you going to create a possible county pocket by doing an annexation?

I think you need to look at this because it's quite uh it's quite costly to the people that you annex.

If you want to annex these properties so bad, you take care of all the fees, all the construction and everything else that's required to bring these uh properties into compliance with the city ordinance because when the people moved out there, like myself, I've lived out at my property since 1956.

That's when my father bought the property and I bought it from him.

And I was way out in the county, way out in the county.

Now the county's right next door to or the city's right next door to me.

And I find that kind of scary because we have people that are coming in from the city, especially Saddle Ridge, that are not nice people.

They are not nice drivers.

We've had deaths at US uh 30 and Whitney, because the thing is is people are in a hurry and they don't wait, didn't wait for traffic.

So it costs a lot of money to fix those intersections.

And now there's another one coming up at Dell Range.

That's gonna be ridiculous, putting it below a crest of a hill.

But the thing about it is you folks really need to look at what you're annexing.

And if it's going to create a city pocket, take a danter at it.

Is it worth it?

Is it worth it to annex it in or to tell whoever wants that property that they want the city, tell them no?

I think that would be a simple solution.

Don, thanks.

Good to see you.

Hi, ma'am.

How are you this evening?

Now, Mr.

Mayor, council members.

Uh my name is Francine Scheel, and I also live on the South Side, and I also am a customer of the little Wyoming farm stand, a small family-owned business for well over a year.

The first thing I noticed when I walked in there was they presented their products.

There was a sign there that said, this is homemade.

This is not certified, labeled, licensed, packaged, or regulated.

Inspected, all of us who choose to shop at this little farm stand are well aware of what that sign means.

And we choose to shop there.

We choose to eat more naturally, more pure foods, as the rest of them think.

Sorry, I lost my train of thought.

Just take your time.

You're fine.

This this farm stand provides good Wyoming beef, cow's milk, goat milk, yogurt, cheese, jams, eggs.

Oh, and about that.

Uh chickens uh don't wander around at night.

Chickens go to roost.

I have chickens.

They go to bed at sundown.

They're not wandering around and annoying anyone.

You folks say you support small business here in Wyoming.

If you over-regulate this small farm business, you will also be harming the good people who bring their products to sell at this farm stand.

There's also small family farms just trying to get by.

You are also asking this lady to give up her home of 19 years.

How many of you would not raise a fuss if someone tried to do that to you and your homes?

Surely, in your wisdom and benevolence, you can find a way to grant these folks an ability to earn their living.

And also the other small farms who supply products without them over-regulating this business.

Perhaps you should come out, see what the we're trying to protect.

Perhaps even try some of the products.

I thank you.

Francine, I have glad that you're here tonight, but I will share with you.

Hey guys, please.

There is nobody on this governing body that wants to put them out of business.

Please.

Who's next?

Welcome, ma'am.

I got to turn it back on.

There you go.

My name is Roxy Hovel, and I Roxy, can you bring that up a little bit?

So my name is Roxy Hobble, and I live on track seven that you guys are trying to um annex.

Um we just live over where there is nobody around us.

And we got a letter back in January saying that you're gonna annex us um because we are a pocket, but I just want you guys to know that there is absolutely no pocket around us.

Um, we live on the um east side of college.

We own one of the very first dairy farms um or dairy barns that was here in Cheyenne.

We are trying to restore that barn.

We do have animals, horses.

Um, and we're just uh I just wanted you guys to know that there is more people than the one Wyoming um that we are not for this annexing.

Um, for one, it says in this letter that you guys um the sewer and um the water.

I just want you guys to know about a year ago, we paid almost 30,000 to have a well installed um on this on our property.

So if we annex into you guys' we now have a bill, and then what do I do with that 30,000 well?

Roxy, let me answer that question for you just directly.

Okay.

When we very first started this process back in 2022, we recognized that you know there would be expenses that could happen.

And so we went, we spent a year working on trying to change our ordinances so that um we could mitigate as much of that as possible.

So when your property is annexed, you do not have to hook on to city water and you don't have to hook onto city sewer.

But if you want to, you have access to it because now you're a city resident.

Okay, so you have a beautiful $30,000 well and it's working properly, you get to use that no problem at all.

We have no problem with that.

But once it goes down, what do we do then?

Well, that would be between you and the the health department.

If you have enough land, you know, to expand it and can get a two-one exception, then you might be able to uh to fix that.

Um I think really the challenge is more on the sewer side, the septic systems for most people.

We haven't really had a lot of problems with people being able to get their their walls repaired.

Um, so we we looked at that.

We have no requirement that you have to hook up or uh install curb gutter sidewalk, fix the roads.

Um fact of the matter is we don't ask you to do anything except to be fair, um, you have to change over to our our sanitation department.

Um we have a monopoly on on garbage pickup, so you'll honestly that's one thing.

There will be a small difference in the property taxes in uh David and uh Tommy's property.

Uh we learned it's about 90 a year uh additional property taxes.

Um, so we we recognize that if we're going to annex all the county pockets in Cheyenne, we wanted to make sure that there was not a lot of um expenses that would go to the owner before that.

When we when you came in, you had to bring your property up to city standards, but we realized that wouldn't be fair.

And so if you were to um you know, change the use or you know, do some things like that, just as in the county, there may be some off-site improvements that you would have to do, but that would be because you chose to do something different, not because you're just moving into that place.

I took some of your time, so please continue.

Yeah, I I mean I wasn't gonna speak tonight, but um, I just wanted to let you guys know that we're not for this annexing.

Sure.

Um, because we bought this.

Well, we bought the farm to have our horses and everything, and it is on the outskirts of the city.

There is absolutely nothing that city around us whatsoever.

And so I just wanted to let you know that that there is more families in this town that are not for this annexation.

Okay, and Roxy, I think it's important for you and for um you know everybody that's here to understand there is a state law.

Um, it's 151410 subjection A that says when the city initiates an annexation that your continued uses of that property are protected not only for you, but also for the successors that would be on that property.

So if you have horses on there and you're doing the agriculture uses, just because you are coming into the city means you get to keep those uses.

Um that also says though, if you don't do it for a year, you might lose that.

So you got to make sure it's continuous use.

So anything that you did uh in the in the previous year beforehand, those things are are grandfathered.

So in the case of David and Tommy, they're they're a farm.

They'll the the state law says they get to be a farm.

Um, in your case, you have a barn and you're gonna have some horses or a cow or whatever that you have there.

The state law says you get to continue to do that.

And the way that we want to make sure of that is because I'm not going to be here in five years.

Our planning department might not be here, the employees.

We uh we uh we fill out a form that talks about what those continuing uses are so that we can put it in the record so that when we're all gone and somebody says, Well, how come you have a cow?

You can't have a cow in the city limits.

We have a we have something we go back to and says, Oh, but they had a cow when we annexed them, so they get to conchita, they had a horse, they have chickens, that you know, whatever that non-conforming use might be that that protects that for you.

And that's not a city rule, that's a state law that protects the people uh who are annexed against her when the city initiate initiates an annexation.

If you were to annex your property, then you'd have to meet all the things because you're asking to come in.

But because it goes the other way, then we have to make sure that we try to protect you.

And the state law makes us do that.

And so it's really important that as we go through this process that we write down and understand what is it you do with your property so that we can make sure we protect those into the future.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sir, you're here a lot, but I don't think I've ever seen you talk before.

Welcome.

Hi, I'm Richard Lyle.

I'm speaking for myself.

Um I think that in Cheyenne, uh, you know, with all due respect to Albertsons, uh King Supers and Walmart and the other corporate uh grocery stores.

We need a retailer here who will sell locally produced vegetables and locally sourced uh meat and other uh products in the United States right now.

Um the meat processing is controlled by total of four corporations control 85 percent of the meat.

Two of those four corporations are not based in the United States.

Uh uh China Chinese uh body bought Smithfield uh, you know, um and I don't like our food supply being controlled uh elsewhere, and so I would urge that you not enact any regulations that would impede a small family farm.

And thank you very much.

I yield my time back to the I have to tell you guys, I see Richard at the gym a lot, and when he's doing his chin-ups, it's pretty impressive.

I'm just telling you, he can get it done.

Thanks for being here, Richard.

Sir, welcome.

Uh my name's Chris Keatley.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Uh point of order.

Sorry, it's not my identity.

Thank you, sir.

Oh, uh, my name's Chris Keatley.

Uh I'm on Tucky.

I'm sorry, Chris.

I didn't sorry, my name's Chris Keatley.

Uh, I run Tuckley Ranch and Dairy.

Um, I'm one of the farmers that sell at the Live Fresh Farm Stand.

Um, I say Tommy has had an outsized impact for her little farm stand.

For me, this is actually like my second year of farming, and a lot of what I'm able to do is because of Tommy.

Um, I live out almost by Eggbart, you know, where for me it's about a 45-hour minute drive away from town.

And turns out there's not that many people out there that want to buy a chicken.

So you know, we're being able to get my product into the center of town has been a very, very critical part for me for my infrastructure, is allowed me to go down this in Devra.

Um where you were talking about the ability to keep your land um and what it's currently doing.

I can say that's what I can very much speak to on it.

Where doing the regenerative agriculture, having the flexibility to be able to adapt those things is a very critical piece because a lot of the farming that me and her do is a lot more of managing an ecosystem which takes different tools at different times.

Um, for a good example, I started being able to get all of the uh scraps from sprouts where I'm able to feed that in.

I had to bring in more pigs to my farm where I needed more omnivores to be able to eat that.

I didn't have pigs, I didn't have any interest in doing pigs before, but to be able to take advantage of this resource that I now have, I needed to be able to pivot in a different way.

Um, when I got into doing this, I also decided to cut my goats, you know, because for me it wasn't as profitable to be able to do it.

Where when you're adapting and managing an ecosystem, it's not always going to be the tools that you were using yesterday.

So I could see that being a very large restrictive part to this, that that they that taking that away and making where if she had to build curbs or things like that, I haven't done the math.

That's a lot of heads of lettuce to sell to be able to afford, you know, where farming is she spends her life and energy into building soil like that's for a developer that may just be topsoil to remove, but I couldn't tell you how many times she's looked at soil with a microscope, you know, to tell you what's going on in those organisms.

And she's been working on building that for years and focusing on trying to make a healthy part to provide nutrient dense food to the center of Wyoming.

I think if there's a way to capitalize and build on that, I think there's a lot of push in our times for people that are wanting to get away from Tyson and Smithfield and things like that.

And I feel like she has the core opportunity to be able to do that for our town.

Chris, can you remind me?

You said you you grow pigs or raise pigs.

What other things do you do?

Uh, so I sell I have about 500 egg layers I sell there.

I process myself about a thousand meat birds.

Um that like I sell chicken wing slides, best breast legs, drumsticks at the farm stand.

Sure.

Um, I have the pork that gets USA processed and gets sell sold there.

Um milk.

Oh, yeah, my cows are dried up currently.

So uh yeah, to help him out with what he sells.

I think I I but makes a busy life.

Yep, it does.

Well, thank you.

And it's one the turkeys, yep, yep.

But that's where mine I'm trying to build to do that multi-species farm.

And it it takes a lot of manipulating with what you have, what people want, what what does well on your land, you know, the turkeys will eat more grass than the chickens will.

Or if she builds the grass, she could do the curky.

She may not have turkeys now, but they could be a useful tool in the future.

Yeah.

So, Chris, just to you know, answer, I think the the question you had about the curbs and gutters and sidewalks, you know.

Um, again, as I stated earlier, you know, we changed our rules, so that's not a requirement.

Now, if these folks decide they want to build an apartment building on there, that changes everything, right?

Because you're changing the use of it.

But but they're not they're not doing that.

They're they're gonna be a farm.

And it's farm as far as as long as they are a farm, you know, we should not have well, I told David, I think when we talked earlier today, if you uh if if you're going to uh uh maybe have a big grain elevator or something on there with a lot of trucks coming out, we might have to do something you know on the roads.

But they're they're gonna run a farm, they're gonna run chickens, they're gonna have they're gonna raise crops and things like that.

It should not trigger the things that you just asked about.

And we're gonna we're gonna try really hard to try to find a definition of an urban farm so that it gives them the flexibility so that they can, as you just said, you know, you had pigs, but now you do uh something else because that's what the market said is the right thing to do.

Uh so we're gonna try to find definitions that will allow that to to be a reality.

Yeah.

Well, and for me, uh if there was a way to work mutually and beneficially, because even like that wastewater for a farm, uh, I know where I live, I get 14 inches of rainfall of year.

If I had a neighborhood pump and flip rainfall flowing in, but if there was a way to get it in that we had a filtration system for, I feel like there's ways that a urban farm could be very beneficial and working symbiotic with it.

And you know, I I think finding ways to work together with it to come to beneficial solutions.

You know, I told Tommy when we talked on the phone that uh, you know, I think this is one of those quality of life things that that people want when you live in a community.

Um, it's it's having you know some shopping opportunities and some shopping options for healthy food.

And it's also great for people like yourself, other small business people that can come to their farm stand and sell.

So we've talked about you know how important that is to our community.

So uh I think there's a recognition of it.

I appreciate what you do.

Thank you.

Awesome.

Don't forget you're absolutely sir.

Welcome.

My name is Gabriel Pak.

I am a fifth generation Cheyenne resident and also a small business owner.

Um, with the farm stand, my own testimonial is when my wife and I had a small dog breeding program.

We focused more highly on quality of the canines' lives over quantity.

And Tommy and David were kind enough to let us bring the dogs out there and be exposed to animals, be exposed to multiple people, just to socialize the puppies in that critical three to eight week window um to set them up for a better life.

So many of the benefits that we see around the farm stand are not strictly food related, but more to the broader impact that they said Tommy has a larger uh disproportionate impact positive impact on the community.

I've spoken at length with both Chris and Tommy about soil biology because that isn't and regenerative agriculture.

That's another passion of mine.

Um ever read Terry Pratchett's book, The Light Fantastic, the world is coming to an end, and the crowds have taken to the streets, and half of them are have gathered around the the leaders of the city demanding that they get their meddlesome hands out of things and they stop messing everything up.

And the other half demands that they find a way to turn this thing around and fix the problem, damn it.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

And no matter what the city council chooses, 50% of the population will be angry, and even on a vote of five to four, we know that all nine of them are responsible and are to be held accountable.

And we're angry, damn it.

I do think, however, that um to build on both previous uh the both the gentlemen that spoke previously, that the possibility for pioneering new territory in what does it look like for urban agriculture?

Integrated urban agriculture.

What does this mean for our city?

And how can other cities look to us as an example in the ways that we have led?

Most of the carbon emissions that come from agriculture come from food miles.

Food that has to be transported miles and miles from the grower to the processor, then back to the processor to the distributor, from the distributor to the supermarket, from the supermarket to the consumer.

I think that by reducing food miles, we're looking at things for much less carbon emissions and much better in terms of climate change or taking care of our climates, being stewards of the land that we have.

Soil agriculture and regenerative agriculture.

What is the health of our soil?

Ask Chris, we'll be here all night.

However, that is a very deep rabbit hole and one that has been sadly neglected in our country on a massive agricultural scale for close to a century now.

We have now reached a point where people are asking questions about where their food comes from.

What is the quality of the soil and the food?

What how can we as a city move forward, blazing a trail for other cities to follow in our footsteps?

I remember a few years ago when chickens suddenly became legal in Cheyenne.

For that, I salute the city council.

You guys did wonderful.

That was perhaps one of the best things I have ever heard of our town.

But needless to say, I'm proud and I thank you guys for everything you do.

I ask that we could continue to look forward to see how we can open new conversations to increase the quality of life for all of us and to set a better example for other counsels in our nation.

Thank you.

Gabriel, thanks for being here.

You're looking sharp, young man.

Thank you, Mayor.

Hang on, give me one moment.

Well, good evening, Mayor and Council.

Um, yes.

My name is Mr.

Matthews.

I'm here as a local resident and business owner.

So it's I have uh I have appreciated the discussion of economic growth and protecting our small businesses here in Cheyenne, observing land.

Um with that in mind, let's see.

So I don't forget my reference.

Let's see.

I'm here regarding the uh proposed amendments.

Let's see, what is this to the unified development code related to uh home-based businesses?

Um that's a different item.

That's not what we're talking about now.

This is uh uh a public hearing for the uh annexation of some pieces of uh of property 100% surrounded by the city.

Yes, okay.

No, no room to add anything.

We'll have we'll have time for that later.

Okay, just not not our opportunity yet.

Okay.

Are you talking about the ADUs?

Sorry, auxiliary dwelling units.

Is that what you're here to talk about?

Uh, more of like home-based businesses registered as a residency and just kind of what to expect in certain areas.

Yep.

If I can get to that later, then that's fine.

We'd be I'm not I'm not sure we can sure do that under other business at the end of the meeting if you'd like.

Okay.

Thank you.

Appreciate you being here this evening.

Nice to see you too, sir.

Well, thank you, sir.

Uh, good evening, Mr.

Mayor and members of the council.

It's a lot more nerve-wracking to be on this side than sitting in those chairs as I did when I was on the DDA.

Um for the record.

My name's Landon Medina.

I'm a local resident here in Cheyenne.

My wife and I are business owners.

Um, and I've had the pleasure of meeting Tommy and David recently.

Um couple things as I was going through.

I was able to also talk with people um from the county and in Mr.

Eggers department um about where you guys are on your side of the issue.

Um and I was able to kind of see points from both sides.

Um couple of questions I got for you uh regarding the one year mark if they stop doing a certain task for a year and then they won't be able to restart doing it.

Is there any parameters laid for like uh if a death in the family happened or something substantial came up to where they had to put this on pause for a year?

Uh how they would get it going again.

Is there any anything thought of on that yet?

Yeah, I don't think that the state law contemplates that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

You know, and it might be just so simple as to bring one chicken, put it on the property and say, okay, we had a chicken here, we've had our our agricultural use and you move on.

Um Charles, you want to mayor, members of council, Charles Boom Planning and Development Director.

I just want to note that the way this is being annexed is being zoned AG.

So it would be a permitted use.

So in that scenario, it would be allowed to continue regardless of the time period at cease.

They just have to re-establish it.

Um, in those cases, they'd have to either just revive the current use, which is what it was, if they wish to expand, they'd have a site plan just modifying their proposal.

So long story short, they could take as much time off as they want under the way this is proposed.

Well, that's even better news.

Thank you.

Charles, you might have to stay close by for my next question here.

Uh um and then, you know, when Tommy said that she has big dreams for this farm stand.

I have I've talked to some of you guys on city council and four of you guys got on city council, you had big dreams as well, right?

Um I just want to know if what uh rules and regulations are for if they decide to expand into maybe just another animal or put up more greenhouses.

Um, I just haven't clearly got an answer on that.

And I was wondering what you guys had.

Charles, did you want to answer that?

I told you.

Members of council, I was waiting for the look to come up and answer that question.

Um regarding expansion, every use typically has a site plan that's documented or inventoried.

When a new use is annexed in the town, we have them fill out the voluntary land use documentation form where they can draw rectangles, a simple and an aerial map saying this is where chickens are, this is where I grow products, this is the area I use to move my hen houses around.

And that's the land use.

Um, in the event that they wish to expand it to another portion of the lot or a larger area on the land, we would ask for the simple site plan, which does have a hundred dollar review fee.

And that simple site plan would simply say this is where we're going to expand to.

It is agriculture.

Um, agriculture is a unique use in the city.

We we support it.

We support urban agricultural and urban farming operations.

I mean, that agriculture does not have any requirements for landscaping buffer yards to be installed.

It it really is very limited um items that would be reviewed.

Things that would be reviewed that would also be reviewed in the county today, or if you put a farm stand in or expanded that, you'd be expected to pave your ADA parking space.

That's requirement, city or county.

Um, you'd also have to um make sure that you are you know building to applicable codes for items that are or buildings that are public buildings.

But in this case, when it comes to adding on to the farm area, it could be as simple as just identifying where that new farm area is on the map, and then we look at what is the scale.

Um, ultimately, if it's just a small addition, say five percent of the site, that's not going to trigger anything.

Uh we are required um to look at is there proportionality?

If they are putting a small dollar amount into this investment, it is not reasonable or practical to require tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands worth of improvements.

Those improvements only occur when we have major improvements to a site.

Um, you see it all around town.

Um, we've had a lot of properties where they have turned over from a vacant building and you might see a new storefront in there.

They almost look about the same.

Um, that's because we're we're doing these small change of use site plans, which don't really trigger much of anything.

But if they were to modify this farm to put in a 30,000 square foot farm stand, maybe triple the land that they would be farming, maybe put in large structures that had indoor vertical farming, those types of items.

That's a significant investment.

And that would trigger a conversation where whether you're in the city or the county, a lot of these conversations would have occurred anyway.

Mr.

Medina, did that answer your question?

That that does.

Uh Mr.

Mayor, couldn't Mr.

Bloom's really quick leaving that podium.

Um could could we ask him a few questions, or would you would you rather wait until we Mr.

Medina watch you finish and then we'll okay the public hearing we'll have uh time for the council if you don't mind.

Write your question out so you don't forget.

Do you, Mr.

Mayor?

Um, it's just my two cents on this side.

Uh I'm just a normal guy.

Um, so my two cents might not mean much, but uh like to think that I got my kind of I'd like to think that I know kind of what people of our community are thinking and filling.

And uh on this topic, I would suggest that you guys postpone this until all the information is clearly out and all these questions are answered.

Once again, just my two cents on that.

Thank you guys.

Woodhouse.

I haven't seen you at this podium for very long time.

Been a few years.

Gay Woodhouse, 1912 Capital Avenue, fifth floor.

Uh, I came here as basically a friend of the Nisley's and their Y Fresh Ranch.

Uh possibly an attorney later.

We'll see how things go.

But my primary goal was to see if we would postpone this matter.

Uh, I do believe there's still a lot of questions that need to be resolved.

You know, we I couldn't not talk because we used to fight about annexation almost every day when it was the three of us or four of us.

But she has a really, really cool bike, and I think we paid for it with all the times we had to battle back and forth.

So that's true.

That's true, yeah.

Uh, but anyway, I I really would appreciate it if it could be postponed.

So that some of these things could be worked out.

You know, it wasn't the Nisley's fault that the city grew up around them.

You know, they have a nice eight-acre area, it's beautiful, it can be developed further in terms of agriculture.

Uh, they have dreams, you know, and their dreams didn't just go away because they put a motel in or a housing development or whatever, you know, it doesn't go away.

And I think that when people have dreams, that we as individuals ourselves need to respect that and to give them you know the time and the assurances they have, so they don't need to lie awake at night worrying about what's gonna happen.

And I do like the idea of an actual urban in an urban land urban agricultural uh ordinance that would really specify all the things that can be done and the improvements that could be made.

And it happens in other cities in Colorado, they have them.

I don't think it would be that hard to find something that could be modeled after, and uh make sure that they are doing what they need to do and what they plan to do, and aren't just hamstrung because they surrounded by city property and they can be annexed, you know.

And I do also want to say I really appreciate you know, some of the requirements back in the day when we used to fight all the time, you know, we're not having to do curb and gutter, we're not having to hook up to uh city, sewer and water right away, and that those kinds of things make a huge difference.

But this is a kind of a unique property, very unique property, and so is number seven, the one that the lady talked about with her um uh her barn and her bar.

A barn, yeah, right.

Barn and horses, yeah.

So I I think it might be an opportunity for us to really make some good headway on something, but maybe just give us a slow roll.

Give us give us some more time.

Thank you.

Nice to have you here tonight.

Thank you.

Ma'am.

Hello.

Um, my name's Kelsey French.

I actually am one of the farmers' daughters.

Um, I help out at Y Fresh.

I grew up here 28 years.

I moved back recently.

Um, and I I just kind of want to say like the astonishment of how much we've grown here in Cheyenne, and it just keeps going out east and west.

And I mean, we pride ourselves on being the cowboy state, but it seems like the cowboys state wants nothing to do with the cowboys.

They want to push us out.

Um, I don't think that any of us feel that you guys are gonna put us out of business.

I mean, I've watched my mom grow.

It's great.

She owns spotted dairy farm.

Um, the amount of milk that we bring in is right around 300 jars a week.

If that, I mean, the the city itself is proud of it.

Um I I think the growing concern is the prices of things.

You annex and they're gonna have to get a building permit.

Um, I actually recently seen a um release of the questions that were asked, and the tax was actually 203 instead of the 90 dollars.

Actually, it was we figured out when we talked to the assessor, it's actually 90.

Okay, so that must be old.

We had we had a calculator, but it calculated a little high.

Okay.

But I I don't know.

I just I I'm asking to postpone it.

I've seen it grow.

There, it's but it we're not a skyscraper city.

I mean, that's not what we are.

We're the Great Plains, we ride horses, we have animals.

Those kids in the apartments probably look over at the Nisley's place and they see those animals.

Jeez, I wish I could do that.

I grew up with friends who would actually bring more animals into their property so that kids in town would get the experience to show at the Laramie County Fair and be able to take it to Douglas.

And I I just asked for it to be postponed.

I mean, it it's a small little farm.

I don't see it hurting anything.

It was there before all those big apartment complexes and those huge hotels went up.

Kelsey, thanks for being here.

Keep milking those cows.

It's a lot of work.

I know.

Seven days a week, morning and night, right?

Sir, welcome.

Good evening.

Uh my name is Wade Blunn, and uh I'd been listening to uh all the comments uh in favor of the nicely's and I I too echo that that sentiment.

Um but I would just uh kindly ask the the mayor, uh Mr.

Mayor and the council.

Uh I know um several of you uh have owned businesses in Cheyenne or may still currently own businesses, and I would just um humbly ask that you you you this this uh council would consider putting yourself in the nicely shoes and uh what if it was your business that was facing what the nicely and and if you if you could um for just a moment take your political hats off and and put those small business hats on and and again put yourself in uh their shoes and um just uh would humbly ask that you would you know we we have so many we have data centers and so many businesses that have come to Cheyenne and I would just implore the council to treat these folks just like any other big corporation that comes with the respect that you would for like again a data center or any other business that has come to Cheyenne in the in the over the last several years and uh just uh again just echo what everybody else has said uh just uh ask that you would kindly consider postponing this until all the questions can be fairly asked.

Thank you.

And wait, I would just share with you.

I have had a small business for a lot of years in Laramie County, and I have talked to the nicely's and tried to understand uh what's going on.

And I'm working hard to try to come up with definitions and things to help them be successful.

Um, so it's not like we're we're not having those conversations, sir.

We're not doing exactly what you asked, and we'll do our very best to try to make this the best situation that we can.

Ma'am.

Welcome.

Okay, hopefully I'm very tall.

So you're doing it.

Hopefully, all can hear me.

Good evening.

Good evening, everybody.

Um, sorry, this is a little nerve wracking for me.

Take a deep breath, we'll be good.

But I felt it was very important to get up here because you have to tell us your name first.

Oh, I'm sorry.

My name is Haley Arthur.

I am a Cheyenne resident.

I live only but a couple minutes away from the farm stand.

Um, and thank you for having me.

So I wanted to just address my thoughts and concerns here.

My family and I are huge on community, supporting the community, supporting local businesses.

We love Cheyenne.

We love all the small businesses here in town.

And I came across recently the farm stand, and I have enjoyed attending and coming and supporting them.

Um, my family and I love being self-sufficient self-sufficient and homesteading and um eating cleaner and having the farm stand nearby, close by is so important.

And I think that many of the community members would agree to that.

Um, the importance of having the options to organic holistic foods and knowing where it comes from.

And again, having their option in town is just so nice and convenient, and I love that.

And being able to support not only the farm stand, but everybody that they bring in, all the businesses that they bring in.

And I just think that is so important for building our communities and being um closer together.

I just I think that's so important.

And my my thoughts are is to postpone this annexation until they can get all of their answers.

Um and come to the right resolution.

Um, I just I think that's really really important for them is just to uh postpone.

So all the young kids here, they know they eat their vegetables, they'll grow tall like you, right?

Yes, exactly.

Haley, thanks for being here.

Thank you.

Oh, sorry, Jeff.

Yes, ma'am.

Welcome.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor and Council members.

My name is Yulia Lenz.

And I'm gonna say that again.

My name is Yulia Lens Y U L I A, last name L-E-N-Z.

I get that a lot.

In case that helps.

It helped a lot.

Thank you.

And I'm a resident of the South Side.

And I think I could stand here tonight and talk about all of the amazing things that the farm stand does.

Um, and I know you guys are totally on board for what they're already doing, and that's not the issue.

The issue is, and uh, Mr.

Mayor heard you say this a couple of times is working on the definition of an urban farm, right?

And that's really what I'm asking for this evening.

Can we please postpone in order to find that definition?

Um why is the annexation so important right now?

And that's really my biggest question because it sounds like this has been the works for three years or so.

Um, why can we not have maybe a week or two to understand what an urban farm means and not just to support the one that we're so lucky to have, but what if we can make more?

And what if we can be an example for other cities?

Um, that's a really great opportunity for us.

And you, I think you brought up a point that maybe the audience doesn't understand what our process is.

So tonight we're gonna have a public hearing, and then it's gonna go to the uh public services committee, then it'll come back here in two weeks, then it'll go back to the public service committee and then come back here.

So we'll have another four um opportunities for a public meeting uh where we can work on all those issues.

Uh and I think if I remember right, March 9th is probably the date that this would.

So we have a month from today that we can start working on these definitions and uh and try to come up with those answers um as was we go through that.

So this was a great opportunity to listen and understand what the questions are, and then we can start to endeavor to answer those questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor wasn't aware of that.

Appreciate it.

Thank you so much for being here.

Support local.

You guys are all wearing green.

I just love this.

David, nice job.

It's only green shirt I own.

Tommy, nice job.

Um, my name's Michelle Michael.

I am a farmer.

I'm with Spotted Dairy or Farms.

And um, I hadn't planned on speaking today, but I do want to say that if it wasn't for YFresh, I would not probably still be in business.

Um, I don't know if people are aware of how much work it is to milk animals, milk cows.

I have dairy goats.

Um a lot of times I do this by myself.

And so it is very important to me.

Um, the nicely's are wonderful people.

It's very important to me that this farm stand continues.

And I do ask that you postpone the annexation so that they can get their questions answered.

Um, I have questions I ask them, they can't answer.

So be very much appreciated.

Thank you.

Michelle, I have a great uncle that was a dairy farmer.

So I've I have a little bit of an idea as a young man.

It is a lot of work, seven days a week.

It is.

Yeah, no time off.

You know, you you can never not wait milk and work.

That's right.

Thank you.

Hello.

Welcome.

Hi.

Um, I didn't get the green memo.

I am here for uh I'm not sure you can talk then.

Welcome.

Um I am my name's Leighton Jetham, and I'm a resident of Cheyenne.

And um I use beef tallow on my face, and I love it.

Um, and I've always had to order it online.

And they get their tallow uh from YOFresh.

And so I just thought it would be great.

Um I know you guys have uh kind of um what am I saying?

You guys have kind of answered some questions tonight that have been concerning for them.

Um I know that there's still more, and I know that all they're asking for is a little time.

And so I just wanted to bring awareness to um the council that they aren't just a piece of land, they have a get web over the whole community that they spread to.

So thanks for being here.

Appreciate it.

Green next time.

Hi.

Good evening.

My name you got the memo, so you're yes, I did.

Uh my name is Michelle Johnson Bowen.

I'm a recent transplant affiliated with the military, of course.

Um, I am also a town planner.

Um, I worked for a city in Arizona for 20 years.

And I will say I appreciate the work that I believe his name was Connor.

Um explained about the annexation, legal non-conforming use and rolling over an agricultural zoning.

Um I would have done the same thing to try to make it as seamless as possible, although I understand there will always be issues of fees, issues of new requirements.

Um, and that's scary.

I've seen it as a town planner, and I had it happen to me as well.

So I I appreciate those fears.

Um my question is with a response of three parties out of 14 parcels for the annexation as a whole.

I'm wondering if that is about a typical proportion of responses.

Again, being on the town planner side, we do something, nobody responds, they figure it out two years later, and it's for our heads and your heads.

So that's that's one of my concerns in general.

I will say, as a recent transplant, um, what's today?

The ninth, I have been here less than 30 days.

I did go to the farm store because I I found it before I realized there was this whole thing going on.

Um just as a healthy eating initiative for myself and my family.

And as far as answering questions, I'm assuming Director Bloom knows this, but the American Planning Association has an entire food systems division that can absolutely help you with these definitions.

We've been looking at those today.

Excellent.

Yep.

Very good.

So did you guys move here with an active duty member?

Um, my husband's a military contractor.

Okay.

So very good.

Now that all of our kids are gone, I can travel with him.

Nice.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Are you gonna be here for a while?

Do we need to get a resume to you for planning or what do we need to do?

Yeah, we'll only be here.

We will only be here about four to five months.

All right.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Sir, did you want to speak?

Did you want to speak?

anybody else.

Mr.

Mayor, uh Council members, good evening.

My name is uh Steven Love.

I'm uh longtime resident of Cheyenne, Wyoming.

Um I was born just down the road at the hospital.

Um for most of my life, uh, the first 16 years I lived in the county, um, about 30 minutes from Cheyenne.

And um much like this property I was uh transplanted into the city.

Um so I think I can provide maybe a unique perspective in that manner.

Um a lot of the issues um that the these folks have brought up is um you know what what is the future look like and um I I would just ask the council to maybe look at a new framework, maybe um maybe ag the current definition um isn't expansive enough.

Um a lot of people have brought up, oh, you need to have one chicken, and I think the state law maybe doesn't protect them well enough um in this process.

So perhaps the council could look at um maybe a new framework and um how that would help bring the um farm into maybe uh a little more willingly into the city.

Um thank you.

Thank you.

Stephen, you know, it's you may brought up a good point about chickens.

And I I learned from talking to Tommy that she has 120 some chickens right now.

And if you don't have a couple of roosters, they get out of hand.

So we don't allow roosters in the city limits, but because it's an urban farm and it was a legal use before the uh um the in annexation would happen that they'll be able to keep the roosters.

So I do think that there is some some understanding of that and um and making sure that we we give them what they need.

I I think more than that, what I mean is um if they have um, you know, one one cow, can they have two next year?

You know, and what does that mean?

Um, do they have to, you know, file a document with the city to have another cow or even to build a fence um living in the county.

We I lived on a small ranch.

I've built more fence than I care to admit.

That's why you're a city boy now.

Yeah.

Um, yes, sir.

And um, you know, what do every time they have to put a post in the ground?

I I know that's an extreme example, but uh I think you understand my point is that you know, where do we draw the line?

Um and and where do they get into that point where they have to start putting in curb and gutter?

Um and I I think to that point too.

Um I was formerly employed, employed by Aztec construction.

Um I installed utilities.

Um I was on the Dell Range project um this last, I'm sorry, uh two years ago, I believe it was.

Um putting in that large storm sewer.

And there were several county pockets through there that you guys annexed um while we were putting that road in, um, or you were in the process of annexing.

And um, I think maybe two of the four properties along Del Range um got utilities put in with that road project.

Um I think perhaps you guys could look at um, you know, the total of what you're looking to do in the future um because some of those properties did not get those utilities um up to their property line.

Um so when they do want to or are forced to um tie into the city services, they will they will have to front that cost and they'll have to tear up Dell Range.

Um, that beautiful new road that we built.

Not what we want.

Thank you.

Yeah, appreciate your being here tonight, sir.

Jennifer, do you have any online?

Let's take the first one.

Miss Allen, you should be able to unmute yourself.

Thank you.

Hi, can you guys hear me?

Ms.

Allen, we hear you just loud and clear.

Hi, Susan Allen, uh resident of Cheyenne.

Thank you so much for letting me just um speak.

I am just here to strongly uh agree with those who have spoken before me to postpone the decision on annexing Y Fresh.

Um, I just want to remind this governing body, and I'm sure you guys are aware that Cheyenne has a proud horticulture and agricultural roots dating back to 1928 when Congress directed the USDA to establish the Cheyenne horticultural field field station west of town on city lease land.

It tested thousands of plants in our semi-arid climate, releasing hardy varieties like the Ogallala strawberry and also Cheyenne Mums, um, which is Cheyenne's official flower dating back uh to 1970.

Um, there were a couple of senators that fought really hard to establish the station here in Cheyenne.

There was only three, one in Mandan, North Dakota, one in Oklahoma, and one here in Cheyenne.

And its work was primarily to see how we could survive in this arid climate and grow fruits and vegetables in the absence of a nearby grocery store.

Um the work helped make um the high plains more livable um through local food production and shelter belts.

Um, why fresh farm continues that legacy today?

For over um 15 years, the family farm has supplied fresh chemical-free produce, greens, eggs, milk, and more to hundreds of families in and around Cheyenne.

It reduces food miles, preserves green space, and supports sustainable local agricultural local agriculture.

Um I speak from experience.

Um I used to own and operate a small farm in Windsor, Colorado.

Um, we were required to use City of Greeley water, and the costs became so prohibitive.

Um, it forced us to uh stop farming.

Small urban farms run on very thin margins.

Um additional expenses from any kind of additional regulations, utilities or taxes can easily make or break the difference between succeeding and failing.

I realize why there may not be some upfront costs right now.

I feel like that that creep could um affect their farm um substantially.

And so I too would like to echo some of the other comments about creating we have such an opportunity with our rich history in agriculture and horticulture here in Cheyenne to lead the way.

Cheyenne's special.

We are special people here in Cheyenne.

And I think we can do a good job.

You know, we require a lot of parks to be built when new businesses come around.

Why are we not building, you know, and those are just grass that takes up more water with no no benefit other than to be able to play on them.

But what if we established urban green spaces that maybe had a horticultural easement on them that would be protected in perpetuity?

Thank you, Susan.

Thank you, ma'am.

Did you want to speak?

Good evening.

Welcome.

Hello.

I've never done this before, so excuse me.

Hey, you're going to be just fine.

Just tell us your name and just what you're doing.

My name is Kim Stevens.

Kim, welcome.

Thank you.

I love the Wyall Farm Stand.

I haven't been there very often, but I think it's a great contribution to our city.

And my question is it's been there for so long.

What would be the advantage of annexing that piece of property?

I don't understand that.

Well, that's probably the first person tonight that's asked that question.

Maybe I can go back a little bit of the history for you.

In 2022, at our goal setting session, you know, I got elected to the city council in uh year 2000.

And uh our our um, you know, it's maybe my vision of that would be that at that time was that county pockets will eventually be assimilated into the city.

You know, mom and dad dies, the kids live in Arizona, it'll get annexed when somebody buys it and wants to bring it up and develop it, you know.

And we just took a long-term approach to that.

But we started to have a few uh jurisdictional challenges that came with law enforcement and with uh uh mostly with the fire department where 911 would be called and we had a confusion of who was supposed to be there.

And I think our governing body looked at that and said, you know, um, we probably just need to clean that up.

Um and we had a hundred.

How many do we have, Charles?

County pockets?

160.

It was a lot.

And uh, and so we had a we had a few situations that were just really uncomfortable for all of us.

And the state law uh says that if a property is 100% surrounded by the city, uh the city council can um can just bring them into the city limits and clean that up.

And we spent a lot of time, as I said earlier, to make sure that we we could reduce the impact to the landowners much as we can.

But that's where the genesis came from was to see um you know these jurisdictional challenges.

And we were worried that, you know, while we didn't ever have a less of a life in one of those, we were worried that that might happen.

Somebody had a heart attack or there was a fire, and we we screwed up the response.

You know, could there be a damage to someone that would be terrible?

And so we just decided in 2000 and uh 22 to make that a county goal.

And so we've been working on this ever since.

We've done nine.

We just finished or we will finish tonight, I believe the ninth uh of our um annexations um of all the county pockets.

This is the last grouping of them.

And um, and then all the county pockets in China will be annexed and we'll we'll have eliminated that jurisdictional challenge.

So to answer your question, that's why we're doing this.

Um, it's not to punish anybody or do anything like that.

We don't make any more money because of this.

It was mostly just because of those jurisdictional challenges, if that helps you so much.

So much, thank you.

Go ahead and finish if you had some more things to say.

No, I just it's just pure and simple.

I love why.

And I think we should have sustainable homegrown food instead of the stuff that we eat out of the shopping centers, you know.

I hear David makes a good cup of coffee too.

So I'm gonna go check that out.

They make good everything.

Good.

Thank you, Dave.

Thank you so much.

Jennifer, who do you have?

Tatiana M, you can unmute yourself.

Hi, can you hear me okay?

We can hear you, Tatiana.

Did it see yourself, please?

Yes, this is Tatiana Mizinjova.

I am actually located in Colorado.

Um, and I just wanted to, of course, echo everything everyone is saying about um David and Tommy and everything they're doing for the community.

I know I don't live in Cheyenne, but I drive up there and it's such a joy to visit the farm and visit the farm stand, get to know the farmers.

It is so inspiring.

And I did grow up in a family where we grew our all our own fruits and vegetables.

We had chickens and pigs.

And so, in a way, being there at the farm stand and talking to all the farmers and having access to fresh local produce and um meats and milk has really like reignited that passion in me.

And I every time I'm there, I learned so much just from talking to them.

And hopefully someday I'll be able to have a farm of my own.

But um, when people have spoken earlier about like maybe, you know, this can help be an example or you know, lead other cities to do the same thing.

I absolutely want to say that definitely would inspire me.

It already has, and I sure hope that Cheyenne can um, you know, postpone this enacting and figure out a way for YFresh to still be there and to support all the local farmers that are able to sell there.

I know Michelle, I have access to her milk through YFresh, and I love it so much.

I have lactose intolerance, but the milk from Michelle and you know, the raw milk, goat milk, I'm able to have that.

So for me, an hour drive to Cheyenne to get access to that is such a blessing.

I'm like, I will take it.

I can have milk thanks to them, you know.

So I think it could be even helpful for folks who might have other allergies and could learn a thing or two about you know what they can do to be able to have access to food um from YFresh that they might otherwise not be able to do to the processing of the food, you know, elsewhere.

So thank you so much.

Tatiana, I learned something today.

I did not realize that lactose intolerance intolerances were for dairy cows, but goat goat milk is not have doesn't have that.

So thanks for the lesson.

I learned something new today.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

Jennifer.

Artemis Smith, you can go ahead and unmute yourself.

Uh yes, can you hear me?

We can, Mr.

Smith.

Welcome.

Um actually, actually, uh, that's just my email address.

Uh, my name is Charles Miller.

Um, and I just wanted to say uh I have been listening to the testimony uh tonight, and it was the YFresh family's words that had impacted me the most.

You could hear clearly that they do not want to be annexed and that they are afraid of being pushed into something your own staff cannot fully explain yet.

Um, Mr.

Mayor, if I could ask you a question, possibly.

I'm here.

Um, do you know how many distinct landowners are in this annexation map?

Was it 16?

I believe it was 16, sir.

Okay.

And do you know the percentage of the uh owners that are for the annexation versus the ones that are not?

I think we've taught heard from three two were either in favor or agnostic.

And at our public meeting, we heard one.

I think we had a second one here this evening that uh um has a barn and horses that's pretty comfortable the way things are.

I see.

Well, I did hear some, and this is kind of off my script here, but I did hear some things about uh lack of um proper notice.

Um, you know, and and personally speaking, I have uh had some similar issues uh with the county.

Um, but that was a little bit off.

But I just wanted to say uh with uh with that percentage of owners or whatever, if if the owners could get in touch with each other, then it'll be great.

So um this is this is to the owners, okay.

And um Wyoming law gives you a safety valve under WS151406B, if landowners representing more than 50% of the value or the area of this territory file written protests within 20 business days after this hearing, then no further action can be taken on this annexation area for two years in plain language.

Even if the council doesn't listen tonight, a majority of you acting together can legally put this annexation on ice for two years.

That is not a favor from the city.

That is your right you already have, and it doesn't end there.

If two years from now, the city tries again and a majority of you once again file timely written protests, you trigger another two year stop.

As long as you stay organized and keep hitting that 50% threshold on time, you can keep saying no and keep stopping new attempts.

So to the YFresh family and your neighbors, you are not powerless here.

If this process stays as unclear and risky as you described, you have a lawful way to say no and to keep saying it while you buy yourselves time.

Thank you.

Charles, I I would tell you, sir, that you need to keep reading, okay?

Because if you read 151406C, it says that if the city initiates um an annexation and it's 75% of the uh surrounded, the landowner exemption does not apply.

In this case, every one of these properties is 100% surrounded.

And so all of that great um research that you did uh is exempt from the lens.

So just read the next the next piece of it and you'll understand that, sir.

Oh, okay.

I will go ahead and uh, you know, uh 1514.

I will keep uh my uh attention on this particular annexation and and continue to try to provide support for them.

Thank you.

Appreciate you, sir.

Thank you.

Yes, ma'am.

Welcome.

Hello, uh, my name is Aaron Edwards.

I'm with Ward One.

I just wanted to make a point of clarification here.

Um you mentioned that the looking at the plots that were within city limits that were county pockets and there were jurisdictional issues on response from first responders.

Um, I'm not going to speak on half of any agency in my part-time side gig.

I've been a firefighter in the county for 23 years.

And in my observations, I can tell you that when we get called to something, we don't look at a map first to find out if it's our jurisdiction.

We go.

We go to help those folks.

And if in the course of that we discover it's a different jurisdiction, we call dispatch and have them dispatch that correct jurisdiction out to come take over the scene.

And Chief Dykeshorn may have something contrary in his experience in his many years at Cheyenne Fire, but I've also witnessed Cheyenne Fire do the same, where uh they've been called and they call us.

Uh we've been called to Cheyenne areas again, right on that jurisdictional boundary, and then we give them a call and have them come out to their scene.

So I just want to clarify that so that the citizens don't think that emergency responders are picking and choosing and looking at maps before we respond.

We're we're here to help the community no matter what jurisdiction they serve, they sit in.

Well, Aaron, thanks for being a firefighter.

And thank you.

And I I appreciate very much the fact that when we call 911, we don't care what color the truck is or what the patch is on the sleeve, right?

When you call 911, you just want somebody to be there.

But um, you know, the response from inside the city limits of a Cheyenne fire department is much quicker.

Um, and so um, you know, if it's uh we had one just recently where on Ridge Road where there was a fire and they called the county, and it took a while to get there.

It wasn't terrible, uh, but we found it was in the city limits, and we had a fire station just around the corner.

We could have been there significantly faster.

And that's where somebody was standing at their house, they saw a fire and they called 911, and they the person who made that phone call was actually in the county.

And so when the uh the dispatch looked at that, they said, Oh, it must be a county fire.

And so they sent the fire district from the county.

Um, and and the the response was delayed.

Not not by horrible amount, but had that county pocket been in the city, the city fire truck would have been there a minute or two sooner.

And again, that might have saved a life.

And those are the kind of jurisdictional things that happen.

So we're not complaining about you know the quality of the fire department.

We're just saying that sometimes those things get confused and somebody might get hurt in that situation.

And this was a way the governing body could clean that up.

Do you know the address of that structure fire by chance?

Holland Court.

Um, it was just south of Holland Court.

So, yeah, the the station that responded to that was actually pretty quick, unless you've got dispatch logs that prove otherwise.

Yeah, it was.

So it wasn't delayed, it was it was pretty quick.

That's my fire department.

Yep.

No, so I can confirm.

We looked at we looked at that.

And it and I say I say I will not be really critical of it, but you know, it that was just it shows you that when somebody calls from a county pocket, dispatch doesn't know where the fire is.

They just say they see flames.

Right.

And so they called a county fire department and um you write the uh the fire authority.

Um they're good partners.

It's amazing how much we help each other.

And uh, we need to continue to do that.

Yeah, we definitely like working with the city.

So Chief Coi does a wonderful job.

We talk regularly, he's a good man.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Who's next?

Jennifer.

Nobody else?

All right.

This is the last call for public comment in the room.

Is anybody else just have a feeling that they'd just like to share with us?

All right, we're gonna close the public comment section and open up to the governing body.

Mr.

Wolf, you had some questions maybe for staff?

I I did, Mr.

Mayor, thank you very much.

And um, for Mr.

Bloom, if if he would join us.

Go ahead and ask your questions, Mr.

Wolf.

Through you, Mr.

Mayor, thank you.

Um, Mr.

Bloom, you're familiar with the city.

How many urban farms do we have?

Mayor three to members of council.

Okay.

Do we have a farm extension office in the city building or the city departments?

Mayor, through you.

No, we don't have a farm extension office.

All right.

So to the heart of the question before us tonight, where do you think we stand in terms of your discussions uh with the nicely's about this annexation?

Um do you think from the department standpoint that you have addressed all of their questions, or is there more that you need to spend time talking with them about?

Mayor, through you too, council member Wolf.

Um, from the land use planning standpoint, we do believe that we have adequately addressed the land use elements, which is the definition of the use, such as agriculture and limited agriculture.

However, we do recognize that there is some uncertainty with the nicely's and their property.

Um, so we are going to be looking into creating that urban farm definition to give them some more comfort with the annexation.

Ms.

Mr.

Mayor, uh, just a little follow-up on that.

Um, how long a process is that, Mr.

Bloom, to create a uh a new ordinance uh regarding uh farming?

I don't know that we need an ordinance and such.

We're just looking for definition, a definition.

Mayor members of the council in our unified development code, there are provisions for the director to be able to make interpretations and provide additional clarification administratively when there are uncertainties within the code.

If one visits our unified development code website, you will see zoning uh implementation and policy documents at the bottom that frequently answer some of the questions we've received over the years.

Some of those have been deleted as we've made code changes that follow up with them.

Uh, one of our current ones we have that's uh really recognized is what is our definition of uh sound that's not discernible at the property line, and that is in relation to data centers.

When they're constructed, what is that audible limit that's allowed nearby?

That one's being frequently used.

Uh we have one also for little free libraries.

Like what is a little free library, when are they permitted, where are they permitted, how can they be permitted?

So we have that on the website.

Um it's only uh it seems appropriate for us to further clarify what exactly an urban farm is and how it falls into this agricultural definition.

And based on the information that we've received from Mr.

Nicely, his wife Tommy and everyone else at this public hearing, I do believe, and throughout this whole process, I do believe we have a strong foundation to be able to walk something forward to folks at the next uh public services committee this upcoming Tuesday, uh, which we will be able to present that, and that would be administrative.

With those documents, their policy, we are required to follow that policy, but eventually we will pull it into the municipal code uh so it would become an ordinance.

Uh so that is when it would take a little bit longer to go through.

But we want to take it for a test drive first to make sure it's something that works for everybody so we don't have to try to undo it through three readings and a public hearing and a trip to the planning commission.

Um thank you.

Um Mr.

Mayor, uh, just one more follow-up on that, if I might.

Um I I guess uh I mean, as we as we listen to all of his testimony today, now almost two hours worth, um, and we're being asked to postpone this.

And I I am trying to just assess uh for myself, you know.

Actually, if we're gonna try and get to the resolution of these issues, is in a postponement really in the best interest of the parties, Mr.

and Mrs.

Nicely, or should we let our processes go forward for the next really uh full month now to actually work through these issues?

We can always at the end of it, I assume, decide that we didn't want to annex, but um I um I I think part of that is just sort of what's your assessment of uh what would be the most helpful thing at the moment.

Mr.

Bloom.

Mayor three to council member Wolf.

Uh, this is a unique ordinance because it's an annexation ordinance with the annexation ordinance.

There's a public hearing that's required under state statute that occurs at the beginning of the process.

That's today, right now.

If this were another ordinance like a zoning, a unified development code text amendment, a vacation ordinance of a right-of-way, all we would have done today is read it and refer to committee, and that committee meeting would be the first time that would have any public discussion.

So with that being the case, I believe we still have a lot of additional times when we can have a conversation on this.

We have two committee meetings, and we have additional two meetings of the full city council in the governing body that we can um discuss these items at.

And at all of those meetings, we do have the ability to postpone if we see that we're running into a roadblock or a concern or something that needs to be addressed or realigned.

So I'd recommend uh continue to move forward with the referral.

Um Ms.

Mayor, just one further comment.

Um I I appreciate very much your candor on that.

And I appreciate very much Mr.

Bloom and to Connor and your staff.

Uh how much time you spent on this.

I mean, the the reality is that the annexation process of these pockets has been a singular achievement of Mayor Collins's uh mayorship and of many people on this council with your help and the help of your staff.

Uh and I I just think we we need to recognize that and we also need to find the sort of best path forward.

I mean, what we have heard today is uh an awful lot of very compelling testimony.

And I mean, my wife's a master gardener.

I love plants and I love ecosystems.

So um struggling with all of that.

But um, thanks.

Thanks for your answers.

Anybody else in the governing body?

Mr.

Mayor.

Mr.

White.

Uh just just a question, and it kind of uh pertains to what Charles was just talking about.

Um, in my time on council, we to my in my memory, we've never postponed uh or move for a postponement right out of a public hearing.

It's not option, it's not that's that's what I thought.

We're just here to listen today.

Okay.

And so just for clarification's sake, and for folks who are here, no postponement will be made tonight.

It will be referred if you look at item 15 on our agenda.

That I this item that we're we've just been uh talking about for the last couple of hours, that item is referred to the public service committee, which will meet on Tuesday.

Usually it's Monday, but because of the president's day holiday, it will meet on Tuesday, and then uh discussion can take place there, and then a motion for postponement.

The committee can recommend postponement to the governing body's next meeting at the 24th.

Just wanted to go through that process.

Um, I did not think that we could uh postpone out of a public hearing.

It I could never remember that happening before.

Just wanted to clarify.

Yeah, you can't postpone unless you have a motion to do something, and uh we don't have anything before us today to do that.

Today is just to listen and to hear people's feedback.

Tuesday, we'll actually have a motion and uh and then there'll be an opportunity at that time um for the count the public service committee to vote no, to postpone or to vote yes.

I think those are the only three options they have.

Jennifer.

Dr.

Aldridge, you can go ahead.

Thank you.

Mayor Collins, um, through you.

I'm it also have a question about process, and I am and have not seen this done in my um five years on council now, but is there a possibility um Charles that we could uh take this one parcel out or um that we need to really create a new definition for urban farming from the sounds of the um testimony and individuals you've heard from tonight?

And I I think that's going to be uh a larger conversation because I think we have a lot of small home-based businesses that may fall under that urban farming um definition.

Um that we may not be aware of completely right now.

I'm thinking specifically about things like beekeeping and um things like that that produce other agricultural products.

So um is it possible to take out this one parcel on um on Monday at the public service committee and move the rest of the parcels forward while we work on a definition for urban agriculture?

Mr.

Um Brody, do you want to answer that question from a legal perspective?

We should be able to divide the question and move part forward and leap part.

I don't know if there's anything special in uh an annexation ordinance that would prevent that from happening.

Mr.

Mayor John Brody, city attorney.

Um, you know, on the fly, and I don't see anything problematic.

Um I I guess I would know that there has been more than one uh property owner that's expressed some interest in in that.

So I I guess I would just leave that to the council.

It's certainly within your discretion.

Charles, did you have anything?

Mayor, members of council, uh to Dr.

Aldrich, I'd just like to note that the way the annexation will be written, the ordinance which's up for referral, it could be as simple as just deleting the section and the referenced exhibit for the annexation map.

Or could we divide that out?

That one I'd like to discuss with uh city attorney Brody a little bit more detail first, how that would work.

Thank you.

Dr.

Aldridge, anything more?

No, that's it.

Thank you, sir.

Anyone else online?

Okay.

Anybody else in the good Dr.

Emmons.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, this bring I the analogy that keeps coming to my mind is the opportunity to make lemonade out of lemons.

You know, I do uh I think this is kind of exciting that we could have um some really creative um opportunities and solutions to this.

And I just want to say that as folks come forward to the public service commission committee, which we are gonna want you to do to help us with this.

I would like to echo back to Mr.

Nicely's comment about um making sure that we are darn it, we wrote it down kind and respectful.

And and I would like to add one more thing in that that if we can all really work on being kind, respectful, and trusting.

And I know that that can be hard, and don't roll your eyes.

It can be okay.

Um, you know, I I'd like the mayor said, I don't think anyone wants any harm for anybody in this situation.

I've been in the shop.

I've purchased in the shop.

I appreciate the shop and the farm.

Um, but if we don't have some trust in this, we're never gonna get anywhere.

So I guess that that's part of what I would ask from you all is that you trust us, we will trust you, and let's put our best foot forward, or we cannot.

We cannot and just say, well, we all don't trust anybody, and this is gonna, you know, go to hell in a handbasket, but I don't think that that's gonna get us anywhere.

So I would just ask that we all go forward on a good foot that we're all looking for solutions.

So thank you.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Mr.

Escobel.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Through you uh, you asked about advantages for annexation.

Well, this public service or public hearing has given a lot of uh positive uh feedback uh from people that didn't even know about it there.

So the advertising, I guess that you you got from the public hearing is going to increase your business quite a bit from what I'm seeing.

Uh I, for one, uh if there was ability for us to postpone it tonight would support it.

Mr.

Moody.

Hey, Mr.

Mayor Three.

I want to first thank everybody for your public comment.

Again, I love it when you know you uh testifies this is your government.

I just want for the record, I have always voted no on forced annexations.

Well, if property owners want it, then I'll vote aye.

And I do want to see not only a uh potential amendment to take out the parcel, but also from another property owner's parcel.

So if there's property owners in this annexation that don't want to be in it, please let us know.

I definitely think there should be an amendment there to take them out.

I don't see any issues with that.

And I would say as well, you know, it's less than our constituents.

If they're saying postponement, let's do it.

I think that's where the trust issues coming from.

We're not doing what they say.

Okay, so let's make sure we listen to them.

They want postponement one amendment, you know, let's do the will of the people.

Thank you.

Mr.

Labor.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, I can see that the purpose of this public hearing has been uh met tonight.

And I think that that's the process that uh was appropriately established um by the state and by us.

Because of how long standing this issue has been, how difficult it's been, how it affects so many people and has so many uh different uh characteristics.

I I would say that I also um have been supportive of these uh annexations uh because all the services that we provide and all the rights that people have to their property, uh they might they need to be considered just as we discussed tonight.

So uh, but I will say I've never run up against this particular situation before.

It's unique in my experience, and I think probably in the council's experience.

So um hopefully, Mr.

Bloom here has some concepts to bring forward.

We we're not gonna be in a big hurry about this.

Um I've heard over and over again that questions are not being answered.

So we now have that opportunity to do that, and I hope that whatever Mr.

Bloom comes up with for the next meeting, which will be the public service uh next Tuesday, um will be distributed so people can take a look at it and understand it.

I mean, if this is all coming over the Facebook and the internet, um that's pretty difficult for us to respond to.

It certainly is difficult for me.

Um, I can assure you that personally I haven't been to the farm stand.

I I didn't.

Excuse me.

Uh it's not it's not easy.

Please, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Really, excuse me.

I I believe I have the floor, Mr.

Actually, I'm breaking it for just a second.

Ladies and gentlemen, we're not going to have a this back and forth stuff, okay.

So please, ma'am, thank you very much.

And it's not in this word, it's in the county.

Thank you very much.

Mr.

Laborne.

I'm darn interested.

I can't wait to go.

I'm very interested in what Mr.

Bloom is going to come up with.

But what bothers me is we've been hearing, we've been here for two hours.

We're listening.

The mayor here has taken copious notes.

And I in my thought process, I'm thinking that probably there are other people who are grandfathered with various kinds of uh livestock out in the in that is has been brought into the city that they might want to do the same thing, that they might want to start looking at that.

And certainly uh from my perspective, uh corporate agricultural activities and corporate food production is not a good thing.

And I welcome that opportunity, but it's got to fit within the city.

And it's got to it's got to be managed.

And I believe we're opening up a different sort of land use approval here.

So let's just be patient a little bit and take a look at it because I doubt this will be the last one when I think about it.

And I'm very familiar with all these issues over many years.

Um other people are gonna want to see what they can do on their property.

I think we've seen uh a vast change in uh the ability of people to market their own products over the past 10 or 12 years.

I mean, that progress is not gonna get stopped by us.

So I look forward to this discussion.

I hope we can uh continue it.

And I and I I really wonder when you leave tonight.

I hope you think you got listened to because you did.

And I also hope that you understand that um the other property, the the neighbors, the city regulations are for the health, safety, and protection of everyone, and this has to fit into it.

I think we have learned, I know I have, and I look forward to uh that effort, but I hope somebody's gonna say on Facebook they listened to us, and they want to answer our questions because we did listen to you, and we do want to answer your questions, and Mr.

Bloom and his office and his staff are very interested in working on this and working it through because we're gonna have other examples.

So um I think I've said enough, Mr.

Mayor, thank you.

Anyone else?

I'd like to see a few things.

One is thank you all.

You guys did a great job.

You're respectful.

You made your points really clearly, and um, I think we have a really clear understanding of your passion for uh the quality of the food that uh local farmers and dairy farmers and and people bring and the value that it brings to your lives.

Um for me personally, I think it's really important that we work hard to try to make sure that happens.

And when I met or talked with Tommy on the phone and David on the phone, I've shared with them that it's really important to me that we find a way uh to do this.

David, I'm sorry that the postal service screwed up your uh your notice, but the purpose of notice is so that you can be here to participate, and these people can be here.

And I think it was arousing success.

So I think the notice has been good.

Um while delayed, um, it's here.

Um we had great.

I I think I counted 30 some people who uh have spoken this evening, and uh I appreciate that.

Um, the first time I heard it, I didn't know there was a farm stand on Walter side.

Didn't know it.

I do now, looking forward to being a customer.

Um I learned about this challenge uh on a an email that I got from David on January 28th.

And since then, he and I've talked on the phone, I think maybe three times.

We've texted each other, we've uh we've emailed back and forth, I've talked to his wife.

Um they've really shared a lot with me on what it is that they're concerned about.

Uh I had an hour long meeting with uh my chief building official in Charles today to talk about, you know, how are we going to define a farm?

What can we do to try to make sure that you know their ongoing operations can uh can work forward and we will work really hard to try to find a definition that um that allows them to be successful in their business.

Um but I've also asked David and Tommy to help me and to help the governing body in telling us what is it the things that that they do that is important to share with us.

You know, I I I know now from talking to Tommy, they have chickens, they raise chickens for meat, they raise chickens for eggs, um, they've raised some turkeys in the past.

Uh she's had dairy cow, you know, what what what are the things that you want to do so that we don't screw it up?

So it's it's gonna be incumbent upon you guys to help us by by helping us define this by sharing the things that are important to you.

What what do you do?

What do you grow um so that we can make sure we find a definition that will help protect those uses?

And so it can't be just one way where where we're sitting here trying to come up with those definitions.

You have to be an active part of that.

And uh if you do that and we do our side, we're gonna we're gonna be, we're gonna come up with a great uh definition, and we're gonna come up with a way that can successfully allow you to be successful in your business.

And so I would just ask you to to help be part of that.

Uh we'll work really hard on our end to um um to be sick to help you be successful.

Again, I'm looking forward to being a customer of yours.

Um, and I hope that uh that you have many, many, many years of success.

And with that, um we'll uh say that the purpose of the public hearing has been met.

And uh again, if you want to continue this process, it'll be next Tuesday noon here in this office, right here in this room.

Uh we'll have our next meeting.

Uh then the the following Monday will be our our first actual city council meeting where this will be discussed and a motion would be made whether or not uh to move this process forward.

Okay.

So thank you all for being here tonight.

I'd really look forward to uh uh continue to be part of this with you, and uh we'll hopefully get to a point where we can be successful together.

Thank you.

Maybe we'll just take a five minute break, let everybody clear out that wants to go home because we're gonna be here another couple hours, I'm assuming, and uh uh let the the council use uh the restrooms if they need to.

Well that's not what I would hear from.

Ladies and gentlemen, let's call this meeting back to order, please.

Let's call the meeting back to order, please.

All right.

We're back in order.

Thank you very much.

Next item, please.

Next item is number eight ordinance, third reading, creating chapter 1.28 administrative inspection warrants, establishing authority for their issuance and amending the municipal code of the city of Cheyenne, Wyoming to authorize certain city officials as specified to apply for administrative inspection warrants.

All right, we have uh an ordinance to give the fire chief, fire marshal and the chief building officials some limited authority to use administrative warrants, inspection warrants for four items, and we'll go out to the audience.

We're getting to be friends after all this time.

And we're gonna be besties at the end of this.

I know it.

Um my name is Patricia McCoy, and I am here today to address a specific dangerous loophole in section 1.28.020 B3.

I know I'm repeating myself, same as every other meeting, but here we go again.

This section states that probable cause shall be deemed to exist if an inspection is reasonably necessary necessary to determine, discover, or verify the condition of a property.

On Friday, February 6th, I sent each of you an email containing a case law supplement and strike sheet.

I request that these documents be entered into the official record for this meeting.

The reason for this formal objection is simple.

Under Article 1, section four of the Wyoming Constitution, the words determine and discover are a constitutional non-starter.

In Wyoming, a warrant is a tool to verify a specific pre-existing suspicion of a violation that has been documented under oath.

It is not a license for the government to enter a private home or business to discover whether a violation exists.

In legal terms, that is an unconstitutional fishing expedition.

My attached supplement cites the Wyoming Supreme Court's ruling in O'Boyle versus state, which makes it clear that our state constitution provides stronger privacy protections than the Fourth Amendment.

It prohibits general warrants, the kind that allow an official to enter for one reason and then spend their time discovering other things to cite you for.

If an inspector does not already have probable cause that a specific violation exists, they have no business asking a judge for a warrant to go discover one.

The strike sheet I provided shows exactly how to fix this.

Remove two words.

Uh before a vote is taken on this ordinance.

Thank you.

Miss McCoy, are you taking it into consideration the fact that um you have to look at everything in this ordinance, not just that one line?

Yes, sir.

And that it it talks about there's only four reasons we can ask for this.

There's only three people that can do it, and it it so it's not a it's they can't just go into your home because they want to, right?

It limits it to only four things.

So does that help you at all?

No, because those words are still there and they can discover and determine something else once they're already in there because you left those words in there.

So yes, while you limit why they can request it, you don't stop them from discovering or finding other things while they're in there.

Thank you, Ms.

McClay.

Yes.

Um thank you, Mr.

Mayor, through you.

Um, I while you're here, I would um like to know from our attorney if you have any issues, any constitutional concerns regarding the words determine and discover and be three, Mr.

Brody.

You've been sitting there a long time.

You want to I know you were out of this, thank you.

Um, Mr.

Mayor, John Brody City Attorney.

I I guess to answer your question, um, no, I don't have concerns.

I think you have to look through the ordinance.

Um parameteria, I hate to use Latin, but that's you know, they drill that into our head uh when we're going through law school.

I think given the uh the four things that the mayor um highlighted, um, given the limited authority of those officials, and then given the particularity requirements um that is in both the fourth amendment and article one, section four.

Um it doesn't give me concern.

I I respect her opinion, but uh I disagree.

So, Mr.

Mayor Dr.

Emmons.

For so just for clarification, in your legal opinion, when taken in its entirety, those two words don't cause you cause cause cause you pause from a constitutional issue with this ordinance.

Mr.

Mr.

Mayor, no.

Thank you.

Ms.

McClay, thank you very much.

No, okay.

Your time's up.

Thank you.

Of course.

Appreciate you being here tonight.

Mr.

Brown.

Welcome, sir.

Thank you.

And good evening, uh, Mr.

Mayor and uh City Council.

Xie Brown Ward 2.

First off, I want to start off by saying, you know, that we've had a lot of great conversation over the last few weeks on this.

And so I thank you for taking the time to listen, not only just listen, but to hear the people and hear what they're saying.

I know there's been a lot of um a lot of amendments, a lot of suggestions on how to make this better.

And I actually want to particularly thank uh Councilman Layborn and uh Councilwoman um Aldridge uh for having the meeting that we had last week with some of us in the community.

I think we had a really really productive conversation.

Uh got really good understanding from where everybody was at and uh a couple things that came out of there just for some language changes and also some clarification.

Uh one area of contention was in 1.28 point zero to zero section B subsection one.

Uh, there was a lot of conversation that hung up on area, what is defined as area.

So put together a little bit of a definition, had this kind of run through uh for uh legal language, and proposed this amendment to add in there just so we can take out some ambiguity when the when a judge looks at this, he knows the true intent of what this ordinance is going to do and what the true intent of the area is, and it's for the purpose of this ordinance area is defined as a large open space in a single commercial or abandoned property and including gathering areas, open office space, parking areas, and the exterior environment of a single parcel within the single commercial or abandoned property resides.

And what that does is it just it just cleans up the language, it makes it a lot less ambiguous uh when when they're trying to determine what what are they discussing when it means area.

The other quick change is just a small little one uh in that same section, subsection two, where it talks about the probable cause to to believe that the condition of nonconformity violation or other circumstances requiring corrective action exists with respect to the designated property, or changing that or to and that causes immediate risk to public health.

I think we we had a little bit of a discussion on that, and I believe it was brought up that it initially was and and was changed to or, but uh we talked about you know looking at changing it back to and just to kind of tighten that language up a little bit more in there, and so those are the recommendations uh that I'm I'm putting forth uh today.

And again, thank you for all the conversation we've had over this.

This has definitely been a contentious issue, and I I do appreciate uh again, Councilman Lebourne and Councilwoman Aldridge for taking that extra time because I think we really working together with the public really made this ordinance uh a lot more acceptable and and and workable to where you have you are able to meet your goal as well as we continue to protect uh the rights of our citizens.

Mayor John Brody city attorney I I guess just having heard that language for the first time tonight and not really having looked at it or even had the opportunity to think about it.

I really can't say for sure um we don't have a definitions in the definition section uh by virtue of that um most of those words are going to give a given plain meaning if a court were to look at them um so that's I mean it's a policy decision for for the uh city council uh mayor um mr labor might be a policy decision for the city council and there might be a lot of consideration here but is that term adequate for the uh judge to determine the location if I could follow up on that too because we've limited to those four places is that enough of a definition of area Mr.

Mayor um what I would say is you know people differ whether I think it's appropriate to define area or not um it's gonna depend on the judge or whomever is you know supporting this or attacking it what I can tell you is that I didn't define area so from my perspective it didn't need a definition thank you and um the question of and or that was a direct policy call that the uh public service committee made they considered whether it should be and you voted to say no you then voted to say or um I've shared my concern about inserting that language as as an and I think what it does is it tends to collapse the exigency standard of when no warrants are required into a process that that is judicially created over you know the long history of our country um I think it creates more confusion um but again that's a decision up to the governing body um sir thank you um those are the questions that came out of our meeting and I believe that uh you've certainly answered them to my satisfaction in this additional uh language is uh unnecessary thank you I see Gliano welcome back hello again Kathy Sigliano um I guess kind of just a question or clarification based off of what um Patricia McCoy asked and um councilwoman Emmons and the attorney discussed with the intent of determine and discover um if the intent isn't to determine or discover anything further when someone is in the property then what would it hurt to have those words removed thank you for commenting so we're on administrative warrants are you on that topic no not this subject yep we'll get there though anybody else want to speak to us um administrative inspection warrants um good evening council members and Mr.

Mayor my name is Bailey Turner um and I guess my only question would be for you to please specify what in the ordinance um protects Wyoming residents and private property owners do you have a specific concern not necessarily no I mean I think if I can answer that question we've tried to really limit this to only three people can ask for it there's only four reasons they can ask for this it is if there's a fire and we can't find the owner to be able to do the inspection to find out what caused that fire um we're required under the uh the fire code to do ret uh routine inspections for safety of commercial properties not not houses but commercial properties and we have to do those on a on a scheduled basis and um we try to get to them as often as we can uh daycares you know uh nursing homes things like that probably get looked at more frequently than um you know my bicycle store did so um do that uh abandoned buildings and we have a definition of an abandoned building it's not a building that's empty but uh like if my dad is on uh on vacation in in Arizona for the winter that's not an abandoned building it is uh uh it's just unoccupied uh so we have a specific definition of that and I'm having a brain fart for the the fourth one but do we have four specific um oh yeah if you pull a building permit um so you as the owner come in pull a building permit to do an uh work on your

So um do that uh abandoned buildings, and we have a definition of an abandoned building.

It's not a building that's empty, but uh, like if my dad is on uh on vacation in in Arizona for the winter, that's not an abandoned building.

It is uh uh it's just unoccupied.

Uh so we have a specific definition of that.

And I'm having a brain fart for the the fourth one.

But we have four specific um oh, yeah.

If you pull a building permit, um, so you as the owner come and pull a building permit to do an uh work on your house.

Uh you've got to let us finish the inspections to make sure that what you did is uh to code and is safe for you, but also the future people that might live in that home.

Those are the only four reasons that we can ask for an administrative warrant.

So I think we've narrowed it so tightly that uh it is a protection.

It's a health and safety issue.

Uh, abandoned buildings are bad for neighborhoods.

Um, we don't want to board one up if we think there might be somebody inside it.

And only we can know that is to go in and um and and look at it before we board it up.

I'd hate to board a building up and leave someone inside.

Um if we've had a fire, I want to know was it an arson or was it uh just a tragic accident?

If we have an arsonist in town, I want to know that so we can go get them.

Um if uh um you pull a building permit and you want to do work, I want to make sure that the uh the work is done so that future people that might live in that home will be safe.

And so I think that is a protection for the the residents of Wyoming and the residents of Cheyenne.

I can completely respect that um answer.

My concern though is why would it be necessary?

Um section zero one zero B.

We have an abundance of chapters and sections that are already in place.

And these are the processes by which we are already following.

So Bailey, I can answer that question for you, okay?

I asked that exact same question.

And and the all of those things have a these are your responsibilities, like the fire department.

You're supposed to go and do inspections.

And it says if you can't do that, you need to follow the rules of your local municipality in order to get compliance.

So we passed the international building code.

We've had passed the international fire code, the national property maintenance code.

But what we haven't done is given those people the next step to enforce those if people will not allow them to do it.

And so let's say that uh um we have a a fire and we want to go in.

If we don't know who the owner is, we don't have the right to go on that property and do the inspection.

And I'll give you the example.

We had one just a uh a couple months ago, and an elderly uh person was caught in a fire.

Our fireman rescued that person and we got them out alive.

Unfortunately, uh a little while later, they succumbed to their injury.

And so he was not in position to give us permission to go on the property when he was in the hospital, and now he's gone and we don't have a building owner still in probate, we cannot do that inspection.

I understand.

Yep.

And and it and the same thing with an abandoned building.

Uh we we don't, it's abandoned, we can't find the owner.

We need to board it up to keep transients out so it's not a problem for your neighborhood.

We can't find the owner.

And so we're gonna ask for a warrant so we can go in and we can look inside, make sure it's safe, and then we're gonna board it up to keep people out to protect the neighborhood.

Um if we have uh responsibility to do these safety inspections for the fire department on commercial properties, and we find an owner that won't do that, we're gonna try really hard to convince him and to educate them and talking to our fire chief, most of the time over a period of months, we're able to get them to say yes.

But if we can't, we have that responsibility and those things that you just quoted tell us that we're supposed to give those people a tool to make that enforcement if they can't get compliance, only if we can't get compliance.

We can't just go to the judge and say we won't get in there.

They'll say, Well, did you go talk to those people?

Well, no.

Well, you need to go talk to them.

And we need to take some time and uh and and get there, if that helps you.

And that's in the law.

I I looked at, I would I sat down with our chief building official and asked him to show me what this says.

And here's what it says our responsibility is.

And then it says if you can't do that, you need to use your existing rules, and we don't have a rule to do it.

So we're adding that rule.

Thank you.

I uh very much appreciate your explanation.

Um, although these are not unique circumstances, and we have had people pass away via fire or other um causes, and had the property be unverified or however you want to word this.

Um there are processes in place.

And at the last meeting, the fire marshal had said that he deals with these circumstances quite often.

And it is very rare that they have to extend themselves in order to get compliance.

And he said, just short of an administrative warrant, meaning that would be the nail in the coffin.

My concern is for residents of Cheyenne who are unaware of what's being presented to us.

A lot of people are in the dark.

Well, I would tell you, Bailey, honestly, they'd have to be living under a rock right now because of all the the social media that's been going on on this, all the uh uh the things that have been happening in in I mean the Cowboy State Daily and Um all the news, the newspaper it's been front page on the newspaper.

There's been a ton of uh of uh coverage on this item.

And you're probably right.

There are people who out there that don't know.

We I'll ask you this.

How how should we fix that problem?

Don't don't residents have some responsibility to know what's going on in their community.

I believe that this ordinance is completely unnecessary and should be tabled.

I do not think it should move forward.

I think the processes in place is a structural issue within how we're governing ourselves, and it's not up to the council to administer power where they don't already have it.

It's needs to be structurally confronted and revised.

Bailey, I appreciate that.

But you know, we live in a representative government where you elect people to make decisions that are in the best interest of of the folks who live here.

And um, you know, so I think that that's what this governing body's trying to do is to exercise the responsibility they have to um take care of these four issues that I hope will only happen maybe once or twice a year.

I'm I pray that we don't have people get passed away in fires.

Uh, we're really good at getting there as quick as we can.

Um, you know, that people will will work with us when we need to do um inspections.

Uh, that we don't have any more abandoned buildings, but I think we're gonna have some more.

Um, but that's why we have a representative government.

And when our staff comes to us and says, you've given us half of the loaf, but we need the other half in order to be able to do our jobs.

That's what this representative government's trying to do.

But I do appreciate your thoughts on policy.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sir, uh good evening, Mayor and Council.

Um I need some clarification.

Your name again.

Oh, yeah.

Sorry.

My name is uh Mr.

Matthews.

I'm local here in Cheyenne.

I'm a business owner as well.

Now I read this proposed ordinance a while back, and I didn't make it to the last meeting here or that at the council.

And I was, you know, I regret that.

But at the same time, I've had a lot of different um interpretations from other people, and I kind of want some c clarification on um at home businesses.

So what I'm what I'm hearing is that doesn't apply to your residents and if your business is registered at your house.

So they can have those warrants.

Say if someone reported there's a fire, and then you know there's a fire going on.

Can those people come in to your home, even though your business is registered.

I promise you, sir, if your house is on fire, we're coming in.

Right.

We're gonna put that fire out, we're gonna rescue you, we're gonna rescue your animals, we're gonna put that fire out, make that property safe, and then we're gonna leave.

Absolutely.

Yep.

Okay.

Guarantee you.

You call 911 or your neighbor calls 911 or what fireman sees it, and we're gonna put that fire out.

No question at all, whether you're a home, a business, a dog house, it doesn't matter, we're putting it out, sir.

Absolutely.

And then uh just a little more curious on the inspection side of things.

Uh say if you have a business registered at your home residence.

And uh is there I've heard a lot of different things, so I'm just clarification.

Will you need uh need those inspections?

And is there any way I've heard that you could they can just come in and inspect at will, you know, for annually.

I'm assuming that's wrong.

I just wanted to verify this.

You know, I don't know about a home business, but our fire chief is sitting over there and our fire marshal sitting over there, and we're gonna ask him that question and get you the correct answer because I do not know that answer.

Okay, but um hang Lucy's right behind you, give him the microphone.

Uh mayor counsel Bob Mason, uh, fire marshal.

I can clarify that the only residences that we that we inspect are homes that have businesses in them that require licensing that will require an inspection, like a home daycare or a developmental disabilities uh home.

Um there have been some other home businesses that have require licensing that we do do go in and inspect when that license typically comes up, typically not even for renewal other than daycares or the DDD facilities, but um would uh would a tattoo parlor in home or a uh massage parlor qualifying.

But um Would a would a tattoo parlor in home or a uh massage parlor qualify also?

I mean, if that were if that I don't know that we've inspected any home tattoo parlors, but if it requires a license, and I believe it does, we we the clerk's office will typically have us go by there and do a fire inspection as part of that license approval.

Thank you, sir.

Did that answer your question?

Yes, sir, it did.

And I want to say thank you, everyone, for hearing me.

And I'm sorry for the uh before.

I just want to say thank you so much.

We're happy that you're here.

It doesn't matter.

Appreciate you.

Okay.

All right.

Anyone else want to speak to this administrative inspection warrant on third and final reading?

Jennifer.

Thank you, Tom.

Uh, Gary, you can go ahead and unmute yourself.

Thank you.

Mayor Collins, uh, Gary Chadwick, Shine Board of Realtors President.

However, I haven't had a meeting to actually speak on behalf of Shine Board of Realtors.

So I'll be just talking for myself.

Um, I want to thank the council, uh public service committee, staff, and the attorney for all the work that they've done on this.

I think it's uh very good bill now.

And uh the substitution was a lot of work, and they spent a lot of hours.

And I would like to go ahead and see you pass it on third reading today.

Gary, thanks for being here tonight.

Jennifer.

Uh Mr.

Miller, you can go ahead and unmute yourself.

Mr.

Miller.

Oh.

Looks like can you hear me?

We can hear you just fine, sir.

Oh, okay.

All right.

Um sorry, give me this second here.

See, that's why I write stuff down, don't use technology.

I can find it quick.

Oh, yeah, I'm shuffling through all my paperwork right now.

Okay.

Um, okay.

Um, I'm speaking tonight to address the viability of this ordinance.

Regardless of your intent, a law is only as good as its ability to survive a courtroom challenge.

Right now, section 1.28.020 B3 contains a fatal defect that compromises the entire chapter.

The poison pill threatens viability.

That that section currently authorizes warrants to determine, discover, or verify the condition of a property.

Verify is a viable legal standard.

It means you have evidence and are confirming it.

Discover is a constitutional non-starter.

It creates a general warrant, a fishing expedition authorized by the government to find a crime it doesn't know exists.

If you pass this text as written, you are not creating a tool for your inspectors.

You are creating a target for litigation.

Any defense attorney will look at the word discover, site a boy over state, and move to have the entire ordinance declared void abitio invalid from the start.

You risk wasting months of staff time and thousands in legal fees defending a single word that you don't even need.

The fix a surgical amendment to ensure this ordinance remains viable and enforceable.

I ask for a surgical amendment.

Strike the words determine, discover, or leave the word verify.

By removing the unconstitutional language, you inoculate the ordinance against immediate legal challenge.

You keep the tool your inspectors need, verification, while removing the liability that will kill the statute.

Finally, to guarantee the long-term viability of this program, I ask you to add a sunset clause.

Set this ordinance to expire automatically on February 9th, 2028, uh unless reauthorized by a vote.

This creates a mandatory viability audit.

It forces a future council to review this, the incident reports mandated in section two.

If the data shows the law is working safely, you renew it.

If it shows abuse, it expires.

Don't pass a law that is designed to fail.

Protect the viability of your of your work.

Strike the discovery loophole and add the sunset clause.

Um there's also um uh additionally uh likely uh because you've been notified, there's likely going to be liability uh personally of each of the voting members that vote yes to this.

Thank you.

Sir, come on up.

So you it was worth staying around, right?

Yeah.

Uh Mr.

Mayor Counsel.

Um sorry, I don't know which shirt I was supposed to wear for this one.

So just tell us your name.

We'll love you anyways.

Uh I'm Stephen Love.

Um I'm uh homeowner in Ward One.

Um I I just have some uh some questions about this.

Um, if I can.

Um I had some concerns.

Um you mentioned arson.

Um why why wouldn't you not be able to already get a warrant for an arson investigation?

Wouldn't you be able to get a criminal warrant for that?

I I think we can ask our attorney, but if we know it's arson, we can we can probably do that, but we don't know.

And we have to have permission to get on a private property.

Um, and if the owner is dead, we don't have the ability to do that.

And so we're looking for a tool to be able to get on and discern whether or not something malicious happened or if it was just a horrible accident that caused that to happen.

So I guess that uh kind of leads into my second question.

Yep.

Um is is that um is that the spirit of this um legislation?

Is that uh where we're you're really more concerned about those fringe cases, or is this going to be used as a tool?

Um I guess frequently is my concern.

You know, we got we had testimony um from our fire chief and from the chief building official that uh typically when they find somebody doesn't want to give them permission to do that.

Uh it just takes a little bit of uh a relationship and and to to share with them the reasons they're doing it, the authority they have to do it, and almost without exception.

I wouldn't say 100%, but almost without exception, eventually they get compliance.

And so our guys are really good at uh at sharing the reasons and uh so my my feeling would be we'll do this very, very rarely.

Um, but it is a tool that we would like to have uh for those cases where we just can't get there.

Okay.

And a perfect example, sir, is an abandoned building.

Yeah.

You know, we we don't have an owner, we can't identify an owner, uh, or they're out of state, we send them letters, they don't answer back, and we really want to get in and close that up for the neighborhood.

Um, you know, I I can see us using it for that purpose.

Uh we'll we'll go to the property, we'll put a posting on there, we'll uh we'll go on social media if we can find the owner and go to them that way.

We'll send them a certified letter, but if they don't respond, what do we do?

And for me, not doing anything is not an option.

And so we would like to be able to go in, make sure that it's safe to board the building up, then we can board it up and we can maintain that and make it safer for the neighborhood.

So there's just a couple of examples where I I could see that we would use it, but uh when it comes to the inspections and stuff, we've had really good luck at convincing people that it, you know, it's it's okay that we're not in there to do nefarious things.

We just want to make sure it's safe.

Um, so you'll have to forgive my egg.

By the way, that's only for commercial buildings that we do.

Um is there anything in here?

Um, I'm sorry, I've very briefly read it, so you'll have to forget my ignorance, but is there anything in there saying that okay, we've notified them by phone and email, and we've made three attempts or five attacks, what you know, whatever number that may be.

Is there anything in here, you know, saying that we didn't just have a clerk give them a call on a Tuesday at you know, 6 30 in the morning and they didn't answer?

Yeah, we have to get we have to make numerous attempts and in the the ordinance does state what that is uh before we can even go to the judge.

And then the judge is supposed to ask us to tell him what what efforts did we make?

Did you send the certified letters?

Did you do all the things you're supposed to do?

So yes, sir.

Um then can you say that this won't be used for code inspections on private residences?

Um when you say code inspections, um like the their grass is too long or uh their houses like uh let's say um their outlets aren't uh oh to to code.

Yeah.

So the the ordinance says specifically you can only do this for four reasons.

And we talked about those an abandoned building, uh, an inspection after a fire, commercial properties that have um uh a requirement to be inspected.

Um, and then the last one is if the owner pulls a building permit, then we're gonna go in and inspect the work that was done.

Um, those are the only four issues that they can come.

So the answer to your specific question, no, we cannot and will not uh go into your home because it's old and and maybe doesn't have all the the modern recruitments that a new house would have, that's not allowed under this ordinance.

So along those lines, if you do go into and inspect that work and they do discover a code violation, um what happens then?

Um I believe that uh uh and we can ask Tono this, but you know, just because an old house doesn't meet the modern code, um, it doesn't have to be brought up to uh to code.

There's nothing that says you have to do that.

They're they're protected.

And he's walking up here now.

We'll get him to uh to tell you that for sure.

Ms.

Parmolo, thank you for being here.

Mayor Collins, Tony Parmelo, Chief Building Official, City of Cheyenne.

Um, through you.

Um the spirit and the intent of all of the adopted codes for the city uh do not require or mandate that uh building department would be going in to existing homes looking for anything that is not current code compliant uh in the event that a building permit is pulled for a project.

Um the department might see that something is not code compliant in an existing portion of the home.

There's no requirement upon our our department to bring that up to code, nor would any be placed on a homeowner.

But we do take the opportunity to advise if we see a life safety issue, but that's purely advisement is the way we handle those.

So I hope that answers the question for you, sir.

So Tona, would that be like you um you hire an electrician to put a fan in or something like that?

You would inspect the the work that was licensed and permitted, but nothing else.

Uh, Mr.

Manth, you that's absolutely correct, sir.

We would not be going into the kitchen or bedrooms or anything else, trying to look at outlets or anything like that, sir.

Does that help, sir?

Yes.

Thank you.

I think that's all I have for you.

Thank you.

Sure.

Okay.

Thanks for being here.

Anybody else here to speak to uh administrative warrants?

Cameron.

Mr.

Heel.

Mayor, Council.

Temperature award one.

I just have a quick question as to, I mean, after I've listened for numerous days, just like all of you guys, there was an example that out of the 12 years they've had to do this maybe five times.

In government, I've learned that we don't make laws unless we really need to.

And out of 12 years to have five incidents, that's kind of ridiculous to make a law that people don't want and actually don't need just to make somebody's life a little bit easier to do their job.

My question is, if there's a fire, why can we not hold the property for 10 to 15 days and then release it back to the person?

I mean, that would be an easy fix if you're looking for that.

And then make the bill specific to abandoned buildings.

I asked for this to be tabled from the beginning, and I'm still asking for it to be tabled again.

Thank you.

Can you answer the question?

I mean, I think we have the right to go on property when there's an emergency, but when the emergency is completed, I don't know that we have the right to hold a property, sir.

Mr.

Mayor, I I guess I would just say if if there's a suspicion of criminal activity on the property, um, you know, there's there's case laud of support holding that that property in sort of a um frozen state while you secure a judicial warrant.

Um, but I was in that I I don't know how that approach deals with the situations where uh a house is burned down and you don't know why.

Yep.

Thank you.

Jennifer.

Mr.

Alan S from Ward Two, you can go ahead.

Mr.

Sheldon, welcome.

Yeah, Alan Sheldon Ward 2.

Um, thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening.

I'll keep it brief since we've already been on this for a while.

I think the substitute is definitely better than the original.

Uh but like some of the others that spoke before me, I also just like the words determine and discover in 1.28.020B3.

Um, if the city attorney is not concerned about these words, uh, then would the council be okay with removing the words in an amendment this evening?

I think uh a few small updates in good faith could go a long way to removing uh any remaining public opposition.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Jennifer, do you have any more?

Last opportunity for people in the audience to speak to us on the public side of this comment.

All right, hearing no more.

We'll go to Dr.

Emmons for a motion.

Mr.

Mayor, the recommendation of the public service committee is to approve on third and final reading.

And ISO move.

Seconded by Mr.

Seagrave.

Dr.

Emmons.

Mr.

Mayor, I move to amend by substitute dated February 5th, 2026.

The substitute includes changes from the presented January 30th, 2026 sub, including the definition of abandoned buildings and the limits on warrants in four areas, including one abandoned buildings, two building permits pulled by the owner or their agent allows the chief building official to inspect the work to make sure it is two code and does not cause a safety issue.

Three fire investigations after the emergency is over when the owner of the building can't be found or won't allow the investigation for annual fire inspections of commercial buildings as required by the fire code.

These are done on a scheduled on a schedule determined by the risk the building or business has for fires.

The substitute also includes amendments made and recommended by public service committee on February 2nd, 2026.

An amendment to add section two and remember to read in quotes, an incident report will be provided to the city council following each executed administrative inspection warrant.

An amendment section 1.28.20 B, item number one to read reasonable legislative or administrative standards for conducting a routine periodic or area inspection of commercial properties are satisfied with respect to the particular commercial property or reasonable legislative or administrative to a property subject to inspection pursuant to a permit as described in section 1.28.010 C three of this chapter.

An amendment section 1.28.020B item number two to read.

There is probable cause to believe that a condition of nonconformity, violation, or other circumstance requiring corrective action exists with respect to the designated property or that causes an immediate risk to public health and or safety or might be the longest amendment we've ever had.

So thank you for doing that.

So well is there a second.

So seconded by Mr.

Seagrave.

All right, we'll go back out to the audience on the amendment.

There was just a couple of uh um of changes.

Anybody in the audience want to speak to those changes?

I would move Mary Collins.

I would move to amend the substitution, please.

Go ahead.

Second.

What's your amendment?

My amendment would be to uh remove and to change on number 120.280.

Um zero to uh B2 to remove to change the word or uh the second the first uh or to and so it would read that uh there is probable cause to believe that a condition of nonconformity violation or other circumstance requiring corrective action exists with respect to the designated property and that causes an immediate risk to public health or safety.

Second Mr.

Mayor, hang on just a second.

I gotta write this down, or I'm gonna get behind himself and I'm gonna be in trouble.

So all right, we have an amendment to the amendment.

Um, and so we'll go out to the audience on changing the word or to and Jennifer.

Uh Mr.

Miller, you can go ahead.

Um, I'm I'm actually just trying to process that.

If there's anybody else that could go before me, I probably just need a three-minute window of time.

Anybody?

Uh Alan Sheldon, you can go ahead if you'd like.

Yeah, I just want to say that uh, or Alan Sheldon Ward 2.

Um, I support the amendment.

Thank you, Alan.

Mr.

Miller.

All right.

We're going to close public comment and we'll go to the governing body.

Uh Mr.

Wolfe.

Mr.

Mayor, thank you.

For you, I'd speak on and against the amendment.

Um I um I don't think uh actually it's even germane to this bill, this uh proposed ordinance.

Um because we already have the authority to act when there's an immediency and to insert an and there will simply both create conditions of confusion uh and um it uh it is not uh uh at all necessary for all of the other powers that we have for immediate uh imminent uh threats.

So um it's not germane, uh, and I would uh urge the body to vote no.

Thank you.

Dr.

Emmons.

Um thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

To the council, could you explain one more time about why what that potentially does for a legal, what legal ramifications there are for that?

Mr.

Brody, the exigent that Mr.

Mayor, excuse me, John Brody, city attorney.

Um I guess my concern uh with the approach is that it collapses what's called the exigency doctrine into a judicial process for issuing well for applying for and receiving warrants to be issued by the court.

Um the whole point of that that doctrine is that there are uh circumstances, including when there's immediate risk to of harm, um, where um you don't need to get a warrant.

So what this is doing is conflating these two different doctrines, one being an exception to the warrant requirement, the other being this warrant requirement that you know that we all appreciate and that we all um we all are aware of.

Um, and it I think it confuses the issue, but certainly it is a policy uh decision up for the governing body, and whether or not you want to uh kind of insert that exigency idea into a warrant proposal.

Um I would have concerns, but ultimately it's not my decision.

So Dr.

Emmons?

Mr.

Mayor, for could just for clarification, does it um dilute the authority?

Mr.

Mayor, I I it's hard to see into the future, I guess.

I I can't see how they would seek an administrative warrant if there's an immediate risk to someone in the community, they would just go in and address that risk as they are allowed to under the exigency doctrine.

Dr.

Emmons.

So uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

So just for clarification, it doesn't help.

I mean, it it basically takes away what we're trying to do.

Mr.

Mayor, I I think it kind of depends on your policy perspective on this ordinance as a whole.

But I I think from a legal perspective, um, modifying uh paragraph two to create an immediate risk requirement.

Um I I think it largely just negates paragraph two, and it might as well not even be in there.

Thank you.

Anyone else on the on the amendment?

Mr.

Mayor or Dr.

Rennie.

Dr.

Rennie.

I have a question.

So probably for Mr.

Brody too.

I um did not support the AND language in committee because uh when I read this, it seems to say to me that with if you add and in there, it means that it requires corrective action.

Um with respect to the designated properties and that causes an immediate risk, which means that and I think that's maybe what Mr.

Brody was saying in legal language, but to me it says that not only does it might require corrective action, but it has to has to um has to be a cause of immediate risk to public health.

Well, to me, then that precludes us if there's an abandoned building, um, it's not necessarily immediate risk until it catches fire, then it becomes immediate risk, and then we don't need the the administrative warrant.

So if somebody's has an open building permit and they're not allowing inspection because they're doing something, because this developer and I think people understand this is not always aimed at the single individual.

There are some disreputable builders in town.

Um if that builder is doing something that's not legal or not safe and is not allowing inspection, um, you know, it needs to be inspected because it could potentially become an immediate risk.

But to me, by putting the and in there, it couples it together that not only does it have to have a potential problem, but it has to be an immediate problem in order to do it.

And that's the way I read it, and that's the way I posed it, because maybe, and I know this is long-winded, and I apologize, but so Mr.

Can Mr.

Brody explain the way I read it, is that correct?

And if it and is that what he's trying to say in legal language with the exigency.

We have the civilian side, the legal side, you agree.

Mr.

Mayor, yes, and maybe I wasn't articulate enough on that point.

I I think it's two things, right?

It it seems to add another element into what um probable cause requires, right?

You have to have what Dr.

Rennie just referred to.

And then secondarily, I think it raises that concern with exigency and that and that doctrine that is sort of the exception to warrants.

Um so yes.

Thank you.

Well, Mr.

Mayor, if I can conclude, the reason I oppose the change to and I guess I still will, is that if especially in the case of abandoned buildings, if if it has to be an immediate risk before we can do an inspection, then by the time it becomes an immediate risk, I think it's too late.

Anyone else in the governing body?

All right, the motion is to change or to and did you have another one, Jennifer?

I just wanted to make sure Dr.

Aldrich doesn't want to speak again.

No, I'm good.

Thank you.

The motion is to change or to and all those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

No.

No.

Dr.

Rainey is a no.

Dr.

Emmons is a no.

Mr.

Wolf was a no.

Mr.

Seagrave is a no.

Mr.

White, Mr.

Escobel, and Mr.

Lebourne and myself are no's.

The uh amendment fails.

Mr.

Mayor, I would move to amend.

Go ahead.

On uh B1.28.020.

I would like to uh remove determine, discover or second.

Sir, I heard you ask why they're able to do this.

They're members of the governing body, they're just not here today.

All right, we'll go out to the audience.

I think we already know your opinion.

You've asked for it to be removed.

Um, do we need to say any more from your side?

Mr.

Sheldon.

Actually, it's Mr.

Miller.

Mr.

Miller.

Well, yep.

Can you hear me?

We can, sir.

Okay.

So I got about three minutes here.

Uh seems like this is going pretty uh quickly.

I I don't understand uh how a normal public body is supposed to have any kind of real uh commenting ability when you guys are spit firing everything so quickly.

But uh, but here's what I've got.

Um, so you've got a surgical amendment.

Uh is is this correct?

Striking determined and discover.

Is that is that correct?

Affirmative.

Okay.

Um the previous amendment regarding and was a policy debate.

This amendment regarding discover is a constitutional necessity.

Councilwoman Aldrick has just offered this body a liability shield by moving to strike, determine and discover.

She is removing the poison pill that makes this ordinance void ab initio.

If you vote yes on this amendment, you keep the word verify.

Your inspectors can still do their jobs.

You lose nothing but the liability.

If you vote no, you're going on the record right now stating that you insist on the power to conduct general warrants to discover violations you don't know exist.

Mr.

Brody may tell you he has no concerns, but Mr.

Brody will not be the one named in the 42 USC 1983 civil rights lawsuit.

You will.

Councilwoman Aldrich is offering you the safe path.

Take it, strike the words, keep verify, and pass a constitutional law.

Thank you.

Ma'am.

Welcome back.

Hi, Bailey Turner.

Yes, I am just in support of this amendment to strike.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm starting to remember some of these names.

Anyone else in the audience?

Yes, ma'am.

Hi, I'm Kristen Turner, and I also uh will like to put my name on here to strike that as well.

I do not agree, and I wish there was more people to um voice this because our voices need to be heard.

Thank you, ma'am.

Appreciate you being here this evening.

It's been a long night.

Anybody else.

All right, we'll go to the governing body.

Anybody on the governing body wants to speak to this?

The motion is to remove um determine um and discover.

Mr.

Wolf.

Mr.

Mayor, thank you.

Uh, through you, I am speaking on and against the amendment.

Uh I think that whatever we have heard from Mr.

Miller is probably not the state of the law.

Uh, I don't think we're assuming any liability by taking an action on this.

Um, if actually litigated uh uh 14 42 uh 1983 cases.

Um and uh I don't think uh I don't feel any need to go out and buy a whole bunch of uh liability insurance uh for a vote I'm gonna cast against this.

So thank you, Mayor.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Jennifer.

Uh Dr.

Aldridge, you can go ahead.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Uh thank you.

Mayor Collins to you.

First and foremost, I just want to say that um if our goal is really um with building permits, especially to verify the condition of the property or structures for compliance with applicable law, as is stated in B3.

Um, I'm not sure that determine or discover really add anything uh to that section.

Um, and I think that um we have worked really hard on this uh ordinance and making sure that um it's something that our community can live with.

I think this is uh a minor change that uh still allows the city to be able to do what uh we're claiming we want to do, which is to be able to verify the condition of a property or structures for compliance with it uh through the permit process.

So I would encourage my colleagues to vote um in favor of this amendment.

Anyone else?

All right, we have a motion to strike determined and discover.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye, aye.

Those opposed.

Now may I see the hands or the nose?

Okay, Dr.

Emmons, Mr.

Wolf, Mr.

Seagrave, and Mr.

Layborn.

This uh amendment passes, Dr.

Aldrich.

Yes, sir.

Do you have any more?

Uh nope, that's it, sir.

Okay, thank you very much.

All right, we're on the substitute.

Uh Mayor.

Yes.

Um, I have an amendment, Mr.

Mayor.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Through you on um page four B, probable cause shall be deemed resist if the public is following it.

On um number one, after where it says of this chapter, I like to add in, and I'll go slow, Mr.

Mayors, and I have to write down for the purpose of this ordinance area is defined as any large open space in a single commercial or banned property, comma, and includes gathering areas, comma, open office space, comma, parking areas, comma, and the exterior environment of the single parcel within which the single commercial or the band property resides, Mr.

Mayor, uh just a point of order.

Second, these speaking amendments are really uh just a very inefficient way to do this.

I mean, if if councilman Moody had an amendment like this, it could have spent 10 minutes typing it up and giving it to us instead of reading a full paragraph of amendments and uh just object as a matter of process that uh we are really added to the lack of efficiency in reviewing an ordinance that has spent this is our sixth hearing on this, and here we are at nine, almost 9.15 at night.

Uh and uh we have a speaking amendment.

Um so I I would ask that it not be entertained.

Thank you, Mr.

Point of Order.

There's nothing where I was rules of war says you can't do this.

It's my decision to make that, and I would agree that you you have the right to make this amendment, but I think is a courtesy to your fellow council people.

Uh having something in writing that they could read would be a little bit uh easier to uh to do.

And I just want to ask you does it is the rest of the paragraph uh stay as it is?

Yeah, it's just that okay.

All right, and Dr.

Aldrich, did you second that?

Did I understand?

Yes, I second that.

All right, we'll go out to the audience.

We have a definition of area.

Ms.

Bailey, welcome back.

Um, Bailey Turner, yes, I would just like to support the amendment and also state that the ordinance is not wanted, and if we could just table it, we would have saved six meetings and weeks of time on something that is completely unnecessary.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Jennifer Mr.

Miller, I'm gonna give you permission to unmute yourself.

There you go.

Mr.

Miller, welcome back.

Um, Mayor Council, uh, I'm speaking in strong support of councilman Moody's amendment to define the term area.

I also need to address the objection raised by Councilman Wolf regarding the inefficiency of the process.

Sir, let's talk.

Let's stay on the motion.

Okay.

We've already ruled on that.

We've already ruled on it, it's moving on, okay.

Okay, okay, okay.

Um, well, so uh uh back in reference to councilman Moody's uh definition.

Without it, the word area is a blank check.

An inspector could claim an area inspection covers an entire neighborhood or the interior of a private back office.

Have you read the ordinance, sir?

Uh yeah, but I'm I'm speaking in terms of no no no.

Have you read the ordinance?

Yes.

And doesn't it restricted to only four things?

So how can it be a whole neighborhood, sir?

The ordinance specifically says there's only four things you can do.

Well, I actually uh I'm I'm actually not here to debate with you necessarily as much as to get my point on record.

Well okay, go right ahead, sir.

Um, by defining it effectively as large open spaces, parking lots, and exteriors.

Uh, Councilman Moody is drawing a box.

He's telling the inspectors exactly where they can look and more importantly, where they cannot.

Ambiguity is the best friend of government overreach.

If you leave area undefined because you are tired and want to go home, you're inviting a lawsuit down the road where a judge will have to define it for you.

Do the work tonight and define the term.

I urge you to ignore the complaints about the clock.

Vote yes on the Moody amendment, lock down the definition of area so there is no confusion later.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Sheldon.

Mr.

Sheldon, welcome back.

Oh Mr.

Sheldon?

That's me.

Sorry.

He's she's trying to unmute you, sir.

That's all right.

Uh yeah, Alan Sheldon word two.

Um, I support uh Mark Moody's amendments.

Um, I think it's rarely a bad thing to have things defined.

Thank you.

I like being succinct.

Thank you, sir.

Anyone else in the audience on the amendment from Mr.

Moody that defines area.

Nobody?

All right, we'll go to the governing body.

Dr.

Emmons.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

Um, so many ideas.

Um, first of all, so I'm gonna urge my fellow council members to vote against this amendment.

One the fact that it deals with parking lots makes no sense whatsoever.

That that makes no sense.

Yeah, it's in there, Mark.

It says parking lots.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Um, the whole when you read the amendment, it it is ridiculous.

It makes no sense.

Um, so I think as our attorney explained, area is a common language word approved in legal processes.

Every word in a document does not need to be defined.

The fact that we've identified the four specific areas that this covers in itself nails down the area.

So I would strongly uh recourage my council members to vote no.

And I think it is very concerning that other people seem to understand what this amendment says, but we don't.

Mr.

Mayor, Dr.

Rennie.

Dr.

Rainey, sir.

Yeah, Mr.

Mayor, my understanding when we went through this in public service committee was that um this generally referred the only time we do area-wide inspections, and that's why we limited it commercial property was the fire department under fire code has to do inspections, routine inspections of commercial property.

And as and I brought up the point as a business owner in the years I'd had my in the 20 some years I had my business, I had you know been inspected twice.

They came in, make sure that my fire extinguisher was up to date, working properly, that I had fire doors where I was supposed to have them, that my fire doors weren't propped open.

Um, and so basically things that I would think my patients would want to know were being taken care of and taken care of properly.

Um so I guess I don't perhaps the my colleague from Ward Three that made the motion can explain um because that's what these inspection area inspections are used for, and it's within the fire code, and it's and we related it only to commercial properties, and I don't think most and as a commercial as a as a business owner, I don't think we should have an objection to those of those uh inspections, and I don't think our clients, customers, or patients.

I think they would want to know that when they're visiting our offices that they're safe.

Um, so I guess I'd like to explore my colleague how his definition works better when we're considering we're not we're talking about area-wide um fire inspections that are underneath the fire code, Mr.

Moody.

Yep, thank you, Ms.

Mayor.

Through you uh thank you for that question.

I'm looking at is this a way to protect residential properties?

That's why uh added in here, it's pretty defined again.

It says single commercial or band and property and includes gathering areas and that because again, it does give a little bit of that prospectum for inspections, but also too, it adds an additional layer to protect residential properties.

That is why I motioned for this, Mr.

Mayor, Mr.

or Dr.

Rennie.

So I guess I really don't understand the need for it because B1 line two, middle of it says of commercial properties, so it doesn't give the ability for area inspections of residential properties.

So I guess I think the motion is probably redundant, Mr.

Mayor.

Thank you.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Jennifer.

Dr.

Eldridge.

Mayor Collins through you.

I just wanted to respond to uh councilwoman Emmons' comment that um people seem to know about this definition.

I I the first time I heard this was actually this evening when um a gentleman stood up and read it earlier.

Um I think it simply defines area.

Um I think that um it the real concern I think has been in in hearing what people have said over the last few weeks of making sure that area is defined um to just that one um parcel or building, and so um tonight was the first time I've heard that uh proposed amendment.

Um, but I think it's just a reassurance of uh by defining that uh the word area.

So uh for that reason I'll be voting uh yes on this amendment tonight.

It may seem redundant.

Um I I would remind everyone that there are times when we have businesses like child care uh providers who do business in their home, where this could be um extended to that uh part of the home that's used as a business, and I think that councilman layborn uh referred to that um has referred to that as well.

That you know, there are some homes that do have businesses in them that do require inspections, and so um it would be that part of the home that is being used for a business, um, which may be some of the concern about uh limiting or defining area.

Anyone else in the governing body?

Mr.

Labor, Mr.

Mayor.

Since my name and my business was brought up, I think this might give some reassurance.

I'm glad to have the fire inspectors come and take a look at uh my wife's child care in the business of our in the basement of our home.

And you know what they do, they come upstairs and they look at the entire building, and they recommend uh various elements glad to have it.

That is not a problem.

We we've gone off into I don't know where this is really really become disturbing to me, and particularly when my name comes up as possible, some explanation of why this amendment is a good idea.

So I would urge I I that that's not a problem.

It shouldn't be a problem with anyone in a home business that is licensed and regulated, shouldn't be a problem, it's not a problem to us, and that is entirely and completely different from a residence that does not have a licensed uh uh business in them.

When you do you take on that responsibility, it's not difficult, it's actually helpful, and so I think that um I absolutely speak in opposition to this.

We've reached the point where we're uh really getting away from the legal interpretation into um something that is frankly irrelevant to the discussion.

We've worked long and hard on this.

Uh enough's enough.

Please vote no.

Anyone else on the governing body?

All right.

The motion is to define the area.

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Those opposed.

No.

No.

All right.

Dr.

Emmons, Mr.

Wolf, Mr.

Seedgrave, myself, Mr.

Labourne, Mr.

Escobel, Mr.

White, and Dr.

Rennie are no, this fails.

And we're back on the substitute before us.

Anyone else on the governing body on the substitute?

Mr.

Mayor.

Yes, sir.

Sorry to belabor this.

Um, I did send an email out to council um with regard to sort of a structural issue that I just wanted to make you aware of.

If this is going to have a reporting requirement in it, and that reporting requirement is going to be permanent, um, I would recommend that this body move that reporting requirement into the city code so that it's permanent so that people can access it and so that it doesn't get forgotten.

Um, on the other hand, if the uh if the governing body does not want that to be a permanent obligation, um, I would recommend that you insert some sort of sunset date on that reporting requirement um and leave it as a non-codified uh section of this ordinance.

Uh, however, I I did feel like I needed to raise that.

Thank you, Mr.

Brody.

Uh, we're back on the substitute.

Um, any other comments on the substitute before us?

All right, hearing none.

All those in favor of the substitute as amended, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

And those opposed.

The substitute is adopted, and we're back on the main motion.

Comments for members of the governing body.

All right, hearing none.

Mr.

Mayor, yes.

I have some comments to make Mr.

Labor.

I hope we learned something here.

I know I did.

I've been here a long time.

I've worked with these people who are to uh act on this ordinance.

And when I look back on the discussion that we're having, of course, it's always fascinating and interesting to discuss the constitution of the United States, this state of Wyoming, and how we uh who are sworn to uphold it, interpret it, and act on it.

Excuse me, and it all gets back to the term reasonable or unreasonable.

What we've worked on over this period of time can only be defined both legally and in common usage as reasonable because we're reasonable people, and we work with reasonable people here, and I think that one of the things that hasn't really come up, but I want to speak to is who are these individuals who are going to be enforcing this the fire department, the chief, they've all served us well in many, many ways in many many times.

Not so long ago, they were out in the night fighting a uh grass fire.

Sometimes they have to deal with uh difficult people in difficult situations and seek the assistance of our police department, these are reasonable people doing reasonable things, and I think the idea that we would actually authorize and encourage the kind of things that I've heard come up, is just not in Cheyenne.

There's no doubt that there is government overreach somewhere in some things, we don't deal with that.

We deal with what's here, and we deal with it in a way that and obviously it's clear there's differences of opinion on the council, big differences of opinion, but we support and believe in the individuals that work for us, and we know them, and we know that they are not the kind of people that go out and want to go into someone's home for some unauthorized purpose that just is not happening, it's not going to happen, it's not part of this.

And we know that they are not the kind of people that go out and want to go into someone's home for some unauthorized purpose.

That just is not happening.

It's not going to happen.

It's not part of this.

Okay, everybody agrees.

I think I haven't heard anybody suggest that abandoned buildings weren't a deep concern.

But it is an expensive concern.

It is a legal concern.

And we have a number of abandoned buildings, particularly residences that really require immediate attention.

And I look forward to being able to do that as we proceed into the budget and we look at these things.

We can't just leave that house sitting there boarded up after it's burned for who knows who to get back in and do who knows what.

Nothing good ever happens in an abandoned building.

And I've worked on that with a number of uh people that are here tonight, and we need stronger tools to deal with it, and we need a budget to deal with those problems in a way that we have yet to quite accomplish.

Some of them can be flipped, some of them can be rehabilitated.

I've seen that happen.

Some of them have to be demolished.

That's an expensive process.

So I hope that we might not have agreement on some of these matters, but I hope that we have agreement on the fact that these abandoned properties have to be dealt with.

They cannot just sit there.

Uh and I and it's my hope, Mr.

Mayor, members of the council that when we get into the budget when we proceed here, we're going to take a stronger approach because that is uh clearly the will uh of the people that have come here tonight or commented.

Um, and so I look forward to uh working on that so that some good can come out of this, but uh speaking only for myself, um I'm proud of what we've done here.

We listened, we postponed, we rewrote, and more than anything else, we have the provision of reporting.

So if this comes to pass, and these individuals have good reason to go to the court, it comes back to us for us to discuss and look at and public knowledge for anyone.

What more accountability could we have?

What more transparency could we have then we're gonna know about it?

You can know about it, and we can look at the specifics of that situation if and when it arises.

So um I'm proud of what we've done here.

I think we've come up with and listened to a variety of uh people.

I think some of these ideas are uh I don't I'm not worried about any liability uh for listening to the the public, working to amend this, having a public meeting.

Uh no, we're we're all mixed up here.

Some some people are mixed up here.

We're not out to take anyone's rights away or get in anybody's house.

This is basic health and safety to enforce our codes for the protection of everybody, and so I hope that uh we'll pass this and wait for uh that occasion, if and when there is some use of this that we'll be notified of, and we can notify the community of the specifics of that matter.

And and I I again one more time.

I want to say I trust these people, I work with these people, they are public servants, and they do a good job.

We don't want them out doing anything that they shouldn't.

I don't think they will, and I think that it really is unfortunate that we would come to the belief that in the city of Cheyenne we would want to uh ignore the constitution.

Jennifer.

Dr.

Aldridge.

Mayor Collins, through you.

I just want to first and foremost say thank you to everyone who has participated in this process.

I think this is really democracy at work.

And I think that while we may not have the perfect uh ordinance, um I think that it's come a long way.

I appreciate all the work that's been done on it uh by yourself and by our city attorney and my colleagues on the council.

I'm going to be voting for this tonight uh because I believe that we have been successful and putting in guardrails and um that will protect and put people's minds at ease.

Um, I'm also always hopeful that this is a uh ordinance that we'll never have to use.

It would be nice if uh we never had to utilize this because we could always get a hold of homeowners or property owners or um individuals when there is an emergency um or after an emergency has occurred, but we know that that's not always the case.

Um, so I think that with the reporting that has been included in this that um and the accountability um with the limited number of people that are able to actually use this administrative warrant and the transparency that we've tried to um make part part of this ordinance that um we've made this the strongest ordinance that we can make it at this current time, and um I'm not too proud to say if it if it's not working, I'm okay with revisiting this in a couple of years and we we're we go at it again.

So, but for this evening, I'll be voting yes on this because I believe that we have um addressed the concerns and put on the appropriate guardrails in order to make this um something that works for our community.

Any other comments from the governing body?

I just want to make one, Mr.

Brody.

Thank you.

This was a lot of work, and uh um it was something we had to do on a short period of time.

So just want to say thank you for that.

It was a lot, and uh I think the final product has turned out very nice.

Madam Clerk, would you take the vote?

Dr.