Madam Clerk, do we have a quorum?

Would you please call the roll?

Present present.

Present.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Um, the clerk is um is um looking for ordinance number twelve fifteen dash twenty twenty-five as substitute.

For some reason it's not on our um laptop, so she's in a process trying to find it, but we will deal with the other ordinance first.

Uh director, would you please come to the table and your team?

And then obviously, we have some issues that we are gonna ask for a briefing by the director after we get through with the legislation of some things of great concern to the body collectively.

Uh, and we'll ask for an update.

Okay.

See, identify your team at the table.

Through the Chair and Council members, I'll start myself and then uh go to my left, Nick, uh have the folks at the table introduce themselves and then to my right.

Uh Director Drummond, Director of Public Safety.

Lisa Scaffidi, the liaison between the city and the county.

Yes, got push it till it turns green.

There you go.

Do it okay.

Do it again.

Edward Romero, Commissioner of Finance, Department of Commissioner of Risk Management, Department of Finance.

April Bucci, Administrative Manager of EMS Billing and Prisoner Care Billing.

Okay.

Christopher Vyland, Assistant Director of Public Safety.

Jason Shaq, Nurse and Director of Public Safety.

Okay.

All right, sir.

Um let me let him identify himself.

Uh Nick Delaney, Assistant Director of Law.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Director.

Yes, the uh ordinance number as stated before is 1082-2025, and it authorizes Director of Finance and myself, Director of Public Safety to enter into one or more contracts with heritage.

Health solutions for professional services necessary for inmate prisoner medical building services.

This agreement will include the professional services for processing the medical claims and the actual costs of the approved claims.

The contract term is for a period of one year with two one-year options to renew, exercisable by the Director of Finance.

A request for proposal was issued by the Department of Finance and Public Safety, and we received six proposals.

We selected a proposal made by Heritage Health Solution Inc.

as their services most closely fit our needs for these services.

And I am at the table with my staff and also department of finance to answer any questions relative to this ordinance.

So in whoever can answer layman's terms, because obviously I want everyone to be aware that you know we have the viewing public here.

Um so in layman's terms, explain this.

What what is this?

Who can who can do that in layman's terms?

Um to the chair.

So this is for pre-booking prisoner medical.

So when um individuals are arrested and they require medical care prior to being accepted by the county jail, um, this is for those bills.

So this is the company that would vet those bills and get us the Medicaid rate to pay those invoices to the hospitals.

Okay.

So they're gonna send the they're gonna come in and they have uh broken leg.

Okay.

We're bringing them in to the jail, they got a broken leg.

They're gonna bill.

Who the hospital, someone's gonna bill us for that work, right?

Who does that?

Correct.

Prisoners injured goes through, take them to a hospital, correct?

Correct.

And then they're gonna bill us, they're gonna bill the city, correct?

Yes, that's correct.

And then this company is going to take that bill and apply for what?

Medicaid, Medicaid, tell me.

So it's the Medicare rate, but they're gonna ensure that all the services are covered.

And I think that April can speak to the actual services that are covered.

Okay, how that process works.

Um, Chairman, this is the medical bills, all the insurance bills, or all the the service bills for hospital, doctors, lab work, anything that's needed, will go to this heritage company.

They will act as a TPA, a third-party administrator on the city's behalf.

They will reprice them at Medicaid rate, make sure that they're valid, make sure that they meet federal standards, state standards, not overbilling us, they're not um on, you know, they're we're paying exactly what we need to pay.

Then they send us the invoice, we pay them, they pay the facility for the charges.

Okay.

So what about someone who is uninsured?

That's if we arrested them and they're in our custody, we're responsible for paying those bills.

Regardless if they are insured or uninsured.

Yes.

Okay.

That's that's interesting.

Okay, I didn't know that.

Okay.

Anyone else want to add anything to this discussion?

Okay.

Um Casey's first.

Anyone else?

Yes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Chairman to the Director.

Who does this billing now for us?

Food chairs done by the city.

Through the chair of the councilman.

For clarification, this service is a service that was provided to the city through its past contracts with Medical Mutual as part of its employee benefits package.

And we were notified that Medical Mutual would no longer be doing that at the close of last year.

So we went out for a request for proposal to find a solution that would fill that gap after Medical Mutual is no longer going to be providing that service.

Okay.

So, Mr.

Chairman, to our director, assistant director, since Medical Mutual stopped doing it last year.

Who has been doing it from the end of last year, January, up until now for the last 10 months?

Medical Mutual has been working with our law department to assist us in continuing to do this until we were able to replace them.

Mr.

Chairman, to the director, is are any city employees going to lose their job?

Because this seems this this reminds me of the EMS billing where we outsourced the EMS building and we were told that people didn't lose their job and maybe they didn't, but you know how that turned out.

Through the chair, no one's losing their job.

Nobody's losing their job because of this.

Correct.

Okay.

Mr.

Chairman to the Director, what does the city have to gain from this?

Who can answer?

The city gains uh the ability to make sure that we are receiving the appropriate uh charges for the individuals that are being treated by the doctors or the billing.

Um there's a vetting process done by our people as well as this heritage uh to make sure again that we're we're getting the proper fees, or we're paying the proper fees uh and services from the uh medical providers.

Mr.

Chairman to the director, who is that for the city who's that watchdog person who assures that uh we're only paying what we need to pay or through the chair uh to the councilman.

Uh we have I believe we have several layers.

Uh, one is uh sitting to my left, um, which is uh Lisa Scaffidi.

Uh she's been doing it for years uh to make sure that uh the bills that we receive are accurate.

And then we also have April down there at the end as well.

They also make sure that uh the bills that we receive are accurate before they're actually paid by the City of Cleveland.

All right, Mr.

Chairman to Lisa, right?

Um you're the one who uh counts the prisoners' days, right?

Yeah, it went from from arrest to to make sure that we're not being billed inappropriately from the county for extra days of people sitting to the chairman, yes, that's correct.

And then do you would do you have anything to do with the oversight of this?

So what I do with this is I ensure that the that we are like the responsible law enforcement agency for this.

So if it's another agency that makes the arrest, then we decline the the payment.

So we ensure that we're only paying for people that were physically in our custody arrested by the Cleveland Division of Police.

And Mr.

Chairman Talesa, how I don't do you have a title?

Jail liaison.

Generally, okay.

Um Lisa.

Um often does the county try to charge us for a prison or or accidentally or over doesn't charges us for somebody who wasn't in our custody.

How often do you catch something like that?

So are you referring to the per diem for the housing outside of the medical?

Both.

Okay.

So so that happens um quite often.

And I think it's just the way that the data entry is entered by the corrections officers or the record staff to differentiate those days and custody is very fluid.

Um you can be a city prisoner one day and then that jurisdiction changes the next day, and then vice versa.

You can be in county custody and then you know you post your bond with the county and you're a city prisoner.

So I mean the list is constantly moving, you know, all day long.

Um so I can't say that they try to overcharge us, um, but it is a very tedious process to ensure that we're only paying for those that we're responsible for.

And we and Mr.

Chairman Talisa, you you you're confident that we have good eyes on that and that the city is not being overcharged for anything.

I am I am personally confident.

Okay.

All right.

One last question, um, Mr.

Chairman to the director is um on a number of occasions you indicated the table is indicated that you're going to assure that we get the Medicare rate through this.

Are we not receiving the Medicare rate currently, or does this assure that we're going to get the Medicare rate?

Through the chair, through the chair to the councilman, it is actually the Medicaid rate, and that is the state law that if someone's in custody, Medicaid rate has to be applied.

So right now, um Medical Mutual is assuring that, and Heritage will take over that when they take over.

All right.

And then one last thing, Mr.

Chairman to the Director.

In the legislative summary, it doesn't state how much this contract is going to be for.

It says one year with two one year options to renew, but how much how much are we going to be spending on this contract and where is the money coming from?

Through the charter of the councilman, I don't have the specific number we can get that to you, but it is uh similar to a requirements contract, which um we're estimating what the prisoner costs will be for next year.

And so there the contract will be for a an amount up to and not to exceed.

Uh unfortunately, I don't have that number for you currently.

Because it's not embodied in the legislation either.

Nor is it in the what says for some reason a council summary, um, not the executive summary.

I've never seen a council summary before, let alone one that is written like this.

So, Mr.

Chairman, if they could get us the amount of the contract and then not to exceed, so that at least by finance we can be assured that we're not turning around and spending nine million dollars on a contract that's only going to bring us in 200,000.

Absolutely.

So the chair will make sure you get that information.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Because again, if I can tell you right now, if that's not in there, we're not going to pass it.

We want to know as Councilman Casey, the case we want to know what the implications are with regards to how much this is going to cost.

Councilmans, I have Councilman Slife, and then I have Councilman Starr.

Thank you.

And there's there's a couple of moving parts here, so I wanted to make just make sure I understand individuals arrested pre-booking medical is first question I should be if we were to not pass this legislation, we would essentially be eating the cost of medical provided because I would assume the city is legally obligated to provide this, right?

So if we're not seeking to get reimbursed for Medicaid, then we're just out that money, is that correct?

To the chair that's yes, that is correct.

So pre-booking, it was said that this is for pre-booking.

Once someone is booked, if they are a city prisoner, or the is this there any medical while they are in the custody of the City of Cleveland, is that reimbursed through here also, or is that done differently?

Once they are accepted by the county, we're no longer responsible.

They are once once county accepts them at booking, no matter what medical care they're they get at that point, it is a responsibility of the county.

That's part of the per diem.

That's part of the per diem, even if they are being charged in municipal court for misdemeanors.

It is still the county's per diem covers their medical costs.

That is correct.

Once they are physically accepted, we are no longer responsible.

Okay.

How does this align with once a prisoner is accepted by the county and maybe needs to be transported to Metro?

How are we ensuring that we are is that that that would then fall to EMS billing?

Is that correct?

Of how are we making sure that we are not also subsidizing medical services that need to be provided by the county that our per diem is being used and and that our services are being paid for?

Their transport from the county to the whatever medical facility may be, that's also part of their the the uh per diem.

Um I'll have to check on the medical um EMS portion of it for you.

But I know that the care is all part of the um the per diem as well.

But I'll check on the uh the actual uh EMS portion.

Unless April can answer that particular question.

Um through the chair to the councilman, we currently write them off to oh no, that I'm sorry, not you're talking about if they are in county custody.

Correct.

They get billed to the county and the county pays us Medicaid rate.

Okay.

For for the transport.

For the transport for EMS, yes.

There's sort of two aspects to it.

One, I want to make sure that we're being paid for the transport.

Two, I have heard anecdotally that perhaps medical services that could be provided at the facility are not being provided at the facility.

And in instead, individuals are being transported off-site, even if we're being reimbursed for that cost, I do worry that it ties up city EMS for unnecessarily when the get given and given the number of runs EMS has and the demand for those services.

I I suppose there is not a specific question to form the concern, but is it possible to at least get the raw number of EMS runs from the jail to Metro or I guess wherever?

Uh and if you have a suggestion for how we could sort of analyze those to determine whether or not we feel that transport was justifiable given the services that we are paying for through our per diem and that are available at the county jail, I would like to suss that out if possible.

I know that's a bit beyond this legislation, but it's I think all these things sort of tie in together.

Um final set of questions.

If this had been provided by medical mutual historically, where was this that cost within the budget?

Was it if it was medical mutual, was it tied into sort of our larger insurance contract?

And is this going to be some something new in the budget as it like in contracts within the division of correction or something?

Like where is this gonna appear?

Division of correction.

So we can anticipate an increase in the division of corrections budget because of this.

And I'm not like it's cost one could think it's cost neutral, it's just appearing in a different place in the budget essentially.

That's what I'm trying to kind of understand.

I'm sorry.

Whoever can answer.

Okay, go ahead.

Uh through the chair of the councilman, this specific budget item has always been within the corrections budget underneath public safety, even when it was handled by um medical mutual.

So the budget line item is going to remain exactly the same.

Okay.

And that thank you for clarification on the on the location.

My final question is will it remain exactly the same?

Is there a difference between what we are currently paying medical mutual and what uh heritage?

Heritage Heritage Solutions has proposed uh they're able to provide the service at.

In our assessment, and please correct me if I'm wrong now at the finance table.

It appears to us as if the cost will be uh less than what medical mutual was assessing.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um but councilman brings up a valid point.

So I want to get this clarified for all of us.

So if a prisoner from the county jail needs to be transported for medical, I'm assuming they're gonna they're gonna take them to Metro, correct?

Through the chair, yes.

Okay.

And they're gonna use they're gonna utilize a city EMS unit for that.

Yes.

To the chair, yes.

So they don't have their own uh they don't have a standalone transport unit.

Through the chair to they do have a med transport, but they also call EMS to transport uh their prisoners as well.

Okay.

So that's a good question, the councilman Slipe asks about how many times they're utilizing EMS to make that trip.

Um, I would think if there's frequent trips, I would think that from a standpoint of being cost effective, I would think they would have their own transport unit or a unit just to transport prisoners.

So I'm sure they do, and and uh I I was just told by uh uh assistant director of Ireland, but you know, not only just transport including prisoners, it's not Cleveland prisoners as well that's the transport and so.

Okay.

Thank you.

Councilman Starr.

Thank you, Chair.

I'd be real brief on what this ordinance.

I know we looked at it a um a couple of times, and now we're back here on with 1082.

But my question would definitely be um what does what is the background or what is actually heritage health solutions?

What are they to the chair?

Can anyone speak to who this company is actually is?

Yes, tell us who they are and where they are located if you know that.

Through the chairs to the councilman, they provide medical one of the things that we really liked about them is um Columbus PD is comparable to Cleveland PD, and they provide the same services to Columbus PD because they kind of mirror our operation.

Um there is more information on them, but that was one of the specific specific things that stood out to us.

Um they are they I mean, this is what they do.

Do you know do you know where they're located at?

We get the accurate information.

Thank you, Councilman Stark.

Yes, and through this process of selecting heritage health solution, did we have a proposal put out or anything like that?

How do we get here to be able to select heritage health solution that might be based out of Texas?

Whoever can answer that.

There was an RFP that went out to request for a proposal.

Um there were six vendors in uh Heritage was selected out of the uh six.

All right.

Can I make a request on to the chair to our staff?

Could we get a copy of all of the um responses to the RFP that you sent out, um including the questions, answers um that they did for the RFP?

Um just trying to get an understanding of what they do, how how it will be beneficial uh to the community and why this makes sense.

Um in addition, um I know we talk about within this council summary, it says um they're going to be able to provide medical building services for inmates and prisoners.

Um and they talking about professional services.

What is professional services for medical building?

What what is that actually to the chair?

Whoever can answer that.

Uh through the chair of the councilman, the service that Heritage provides is uh facilitating the billing from the medical facility to the city.

Heritage is the billing process that the medical facilities have to go through to get reimbursement from the city.

So they provide all of the liaison and information and vetting and ensuring that the correct rates and the correct uh medical billing codes are all utilized.

That's the professional service that Heritage provides to the city.

So they make sure all the billing and the codes are all in line of what the government expects when you're dealing with medical building through the chair.

Through the chair of the councilman, yes, sir.

All right.

And relation to that, currently, uh, we do not have this type of system in place through the chair, correct?

We do?

If so, what do we currently have in place before we move forward with this?

Currently, right now, what type of system is set up for this type of work?

Through the chair and the councilman star.

Uh, we we utilize medical mutual right now.

And so they're providing that service, they know that this is ending.

They they're no longer going to provide that service.

So that's why we had to go out and to do to the RFP to find a company that did this.

And as uh A.D.

Violent had mentioned, they do sort through the bills to make sure that everything is not bundled and appropriate services were given and built correctly based on the ICD nine, ICD 10 codes that these are billed under.

Okay, so now we we received them some information from medical mutual that they were no longer going to do this type of work for us.

Um we will have to do it ourselves.

So what we came up with an opportunity to do RFP, got that out, and we was able to select the city was able to select um Heritage Health Solution to be um the ones to be able to do this work because of their experience that they've done for being based out of Texas and working in there.

Okay, got that.

Um the reason why I asked that question because obviously a lot of that is not in here, and I definitely would like to put a request out just for general purposes.

Um we have these council summaries or these executive summaries.

The reason why we have a summary is to give us details and briefings of everything's this currently summary that we got right here, it's just bland.

I I would just want to make a request that when you do a summary, give us the who, what, when, where, why, how did we get here, so we can be able to understand the reason why you went for the RFP, the reason why we have this important piece in legislation because we don't have um the opportunity to sit down every day to meet with everybody one at a time, and that could be able to be more helpful for us when we make decisions at this table that's going to affect um the residents in the city of Cleveland.

So I definitely want to put that request at uh one stands uh legislative summary is insufficient for us to make a decision on different things so that we can have that in place.

Um, in addition to this, you know, I know one of my colleagues mentioned it up earlier, but the actual contract cost, you know.

So from the standpoint of us sitting here today through the chair, could anyone speak to regarding ordinance 1082 on an average individual who possibly have health care services?

What happens when they get billed?

How does this look like?

How does it actually work?

What is the flow?

What actually takes place with us having this type of services on a given day on a random day through the chair?

Whoever can answer that.

Through the chair to the councilman star, yes.

So if we arrest someone that needs medical care before they go to the county to get booked in, we take them to the closest facility usually, unless there is a specialty need that it needs to be met.

Um so we take them to that facility, whatever care they need in the emergency room with the doctors, it's lab x-rays, um, the reading of the x-rays, all of that care.

When they bill it, they need to bill it to a company to vet those bills.

Um currently it's medical mutual, now it will be through Heritage, and then they send us a report um outlining the company, like MMO or Heritage will send us a uh a report.

It outlines all the the services that were rendered, and we vet custody, Lisa and I work together to vet custody.

I go over all the the medical bills to make sure that they're accurate, and then we send it back to them, they mail the payment to the facilities, doctors, um, everybody that gave care, and we pay that invoice.

Okay, so do to the chair from that process, do we have any record or data from how much it has cost us the last three years with this type of services that we can share with the council?

Absolutely.

So therefore we can see what's the estimated ballpark of how much money we're gonna either be spending or increase it through the chair on what this new services are we going to increase the cost for this type of service that we already have to the chair?

Yes.

Through the chair to the councilman, understand that there's a distinction that we have to make between the medical costs, which the city is 100% responsible for, regardless of who the medical billing service is.

So as the chair brought as an example a bit earlier, somebody breaks a leg and the hospital charges $5,000.

The city is responsible for that $5,000.

The cost of this contract is the billing services that are being provided.

And the billing services under the proposed contract with heritage are $50 per claim.

So the city would be paying the $5,000 which it is obligated to pay for the medical care plus the $50 to process the claim to heritage.

And to the chair, how many claims did we have last year?

Anyone can answer that?

To the chair, we can get that.

We'll get there.

Well, so based on Councilman Starr's request, we want the number of transports.

We'd like it from next last year?

Yeah, last year.

The number of transports and then the cost associated with that.

Thank you.

Councilman?

Yep.

And then also within this summary of the services that were provided through heritage health solutions and with this new change, how does it work with mental health crisis or anything like that dealing with patients or someone that is picked up and maybe have mental health ill um illness or or um things that need to be rectified?

How did how does that work from that type of services that may be needed to the chair?

Through the chair, if they're in our custody, if there's a mental crisis and they're still in our custody, then we're the building is still the same.

Okay.

Yep, and that's all I have.

Thank you.

That's what I mean.

So a generalized question.

Folks are in crises and we take them for evaluation, they're not under arrest.

That's a different story.

But if they're under arrest, then the building is the same.

Okay.

All right.

So then going back to one of councilman starr's um questions, um, as it pertains to the council summary.

Who writes that up?

Do we know who writes the council summary up?

Through the chair for us, this is in my office.

Okay.

My office is so again, uh, you've heard the concern uh that the summaries be a little bit more detailed would be helpful.

Uh, and I concur with Councilman Star's um thought on this one.

This is um there is more information needed on this one, clearly.

So um uh so who's the person who does that specific person?

It's the fiscal manager.

Okay.

So please ask the fiscal manager to be more descriptive in the summaries from this point on that come before us.

I think it would be very helpful.

Because it could cut down on the number of questions we're asking at the table as well if it's there's more detail.

Okay, any other questions of the committee members?

Any other questions?

Without objection.

And you've heard our concerns, you've heard our issues.

So before you get we get this over to finance.

Uh yeah, yes, yes, councilwoman.

Yeah, uh, thank you, Chairman.

Councilwoman Gray.

Uh you said due to um the um they have to be under arrest in order to get um the medical um could you kind of clarify that?

Um I just all new to me, so I just need some clarification on that.

When she said they have to be under arrest in order to get the medical um care I just want to through the chair, yes.

Uh if for example, if I can just kind of uh contextualize that.

If uh the division of police receives a call or come across someone and there is probable cost to make an arrest, let's just say we're to stick with arrest.

Um when the person is injured or the case might be in our custody under arrest, we're responsible for their medical care.

Same thing if we get receive a call for someone that's in medical crisis mental crises and that person for whatever reason is arrested.

Um we, the city of Cleveland are responsible for their medical care and their medical bill.

Okay, all right, thank you.

And also one last question.

Yes.

Uh we have so many um chair to uh the director, we have so many uh youth, young teenagers now getting arrest, 12, 13, 14.

Are they under the city care uh um if not are they on the juvenile care?

You know, where they get the same um uh um uh you know um medical care as well.

Same thing applies uh if they're juvenile as well, if they're arrested and they're injured, uh we're responsible for their medical care.

At least the bills anyway.

Thank you.

Okay, without objection, ordinance number 1082-2025 is approved as read.

Please sign it up.

Okay.

Ordinance number 1215-2025 as a substitute for ordinance number 808-2025 is before us.

It was um first time reading was September 29th.

Um read the caption by council members Harrison Palency and Griffin by Department of Request to supplement the codified ordinance of Clean Ohio 1976 by enacting new section 401.711 relating to the definition of under speed vehicles, and to enact new section 450.01 to 450.08 and 450.99 relating to under speed vehicles.

It first came to us on substance time reading was September 29th.

It was approved by City Planning Commission.

Approved by Director Public Safety, approved by Director of Finance, and there's no legal objection.

Let me see what we got in there.

I see no estimated cost.

Good morning, Chairman, and to the council members.

This is Callie Mersman, Director of City Planning.

Okay.

This ordinance is a partnership between city planning and the Department of Public Safety.

Uh as you may recall, we were here before you a couple of weeks ago with an ordinance 808 that had many amendments requested.

So this is a clean version of that that was reintroduced.

The original ordinance was introduced in July of this year and was presented to Development Planning and Sustainability Committee and cleared through them.

So we're here back with the clean version to share the proposal.

This came to the mayor's office and city council a couple of years ago as a request from small businesses to operate businesses that utilize golf carts to support mobility around the city.

There are a couple of different business models that we have been working with and entrepreneurs that we have been working with to create this, including um pick-up and drop off in districts using golf carts rather than cars, as well as tours of Cleveland neighborhoods and those amenities.

We are joined today by two of those business leaders, should you wish to hear from them.

This ordinance authorizes golf carts on city streets that are um that have speed limits no higher than 35 miles per hour, which is all of our local streets.

Uh it gives authority to the director of public safety to create rules and regulations governing the use of these golf carts.

Golf carts are defined as vehicles that can go no faster than 20 miles per hour.

The ordinance requires equipment on them, such as brake lights, uh headlights, turn signals, seat belts, et cetera, as required under the Ohio revised code.

And it also makes golf carts subject to all traffic laws that are state and locally required.

It sets up an application process for the Bureau of Traffic in the Department of Public Safety to inspect the vehicles annually.

This is required by the state.

We're joined here by, of course, Director Drummond as well as Commissioner Holmes, who uh oversees the Bureau of Traffic that will be overseeing the inspections.

So there will be an annual inspections, um, authorization granted for the operation of golf carts based on those inspections.

The director has the authority to restrict service areas if needed, as well as promulgate any additional rules or regulations needed to ensure safety and smooth operations.

Um there is no cost to the city on this behalf, apart from the time to do the inspections.

Uh there is an inspection fee of 150 dollars per vehicle written into the legislation.

That's a very brief overview.

Happy to answer any questions or go into more detail as the committee wishes.

So again, to the to the viewing public that is watching this.

Um the city is going to, under this legislation, is gonna permit the utilisation and the driving on city streets of golf carts if they meet the specifications as set forth within the legislation, correct?

Chairman, that's correct.

This legislation authorizes golf carts only for use of legitimate business purposes, so it does not authorize rentals to individuals for individual operations, and it also does not authorize personal golf cart use on city streets.

It has to be tied to a legitimate business with a uh certificate of good standing filed with the Ohio Secretary of State.

Does the council, does the city, excuse me, does the city have any control over the rates being charged?

The city is not involved in the rates that the businesses are charging to customers now.

Okay.

So to the um traffic commissioner identify yourself for the public.

Traffic Commissioner Gordon Holmes.

Okay.

So I haven't paid attention because I think I only have been on a golf cart, I don't know, a handful of times.

Um are they required to have license plates?

Chair through the chair, uh, yes.

That's a state law.

When this was initially proposed by the director, I reminded her that it's a state law that you can do it, but the city has to formulate laws and regulations to do that.

Uh so everything is is uh a uh a license plate through the state of Ohio.

We do the inspection to make sure that it meets what is in the ordinance, and then the business can operate.

Okay.

Does the name of the business is the name of the business required to be on the vehicle?

I don't believe in the legislation.

However, they will have to have the permit either electronic version through the phone that they can operate or on the person at all times.

Okay.

Um I want to kick that around on the table, because we know right now, like tow trucks have to have a number on them, correct?

They have to be identified.

Yeah, that's through that's through the ordinance is through codified lawrence.

That's exactly.

So if we have golf of golf carts, and are they gonna be restricted to where they can go to whoever can answer?

Are they gonna be strict to where they go in a city?

Not necessarily.

Um you can't go obviously on the shoreway because you know certain parts are 50.

However, for Browns games, we will not let them north of Lakeside.

Um if they if they start interfering with traffic around special events through the through the legislation, we have the authority to say, hey, you cannot be here at this moment in time.

Um but they'll be able to go across the entire city.

Yes.

Outside interstates, that's what you're telling us.

Yes.

Um, okay, we're gonna kick that around here at the table.

We get we we're gonna hear some of the operators are here.

Um the reason I raise about the um identification of the vehicle, because you know, what if we have some that are buzzing around our neighborhoods and we think aiding or abetting are causing a problem.

I want to be able to identify, I want to be able to see a name on there.

I want to be able to identify a vehicle or golf cart.

All right.

So we might talk about an amendment to that um to that um issue in a short period of time.

Is there anyone else at the table who would like to address this before I call upon some of the operators?

And I'll get I'll get names done on my colleagues.

Good.

Good, good.

So let's I'm gonna I'm gonna uh start with some of the operators, and then I'm gonna open it up to council questions because um I I want to make sure we're not opening Pandora's box here uh to some other problems that are unforeseen issues.

So at this point, who are operators at the table?

Raise your hands.

You're an operator?

No.

Okay, identify yourself, gentlemen.

And who you're with, what company you're with?

Uh my name is Chris Taylor.

I'm with the golf cart girl CLE.

Okay.

So I represent uh we want to do point A to point B driving, some tours.

Um we started it.

Would you like a full background or would you like Bob to Well, you can identify yourself?

I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Uh yeah, good morning.

My name is uh Bob Polk and uh name of mine is the Leisure Tours Cleveland.

Um I've been giving tours of Cleveland since 2011 on bicycles, and uh basically I'm just converting and also adding golf carts.

So I give tours of Ohio City, downtown, and Tremont.

Okay.

So t tell us how you envision this.

We we see you see the legislation.

Have you have you been involved in a in the construction of legislation?

Yes.

Okay, with city planning.

Yes.

Okay.

So how do you envision this?

Uh so my model is what I see is and and we started and I met Commissioner Holmes a couple years ago.

We started on Brown's games.

Yes.

Um, we were given rides to Brown's fans before the game, um, after the game.

And and really what we noticed was that there are no limited mobility, no uh handicap options for Browns fans that are tailgating to get to the stadium.

It just doesn't exist.

You have to walk no matter what the answer is.

So that's kind of what this started with.

Um and it grew from there.

Uh we want to do, you know, rides for Cavs games.

We would like to do some photo tours, things like that all around the city.

Um the one thing is I I did hear about some street restrictions and stuff.

The thing I ask about that, or the context I'd like to give of that is is that we also have several folks.

Uh we've contacted several wine bars.

We're not gonna serve alcohol to be clear, there's no alcohol being served on these.

Um, but we have talked to several wine bars and bars in the area that would like to set up tailgating pregame spots, rides.

You know, as far as West 65th, we've we've been contacted.

So um we have a you know, we have a big need for this.

It is a big thing for me.

My wife is a disabled veteran, so it's it's very important to me, uh especially on event games.

Um, the problem is when somebody's tailgating and they want to go to the game, um, they have to walk no matter where they're at.

If they don't walk, they have to get in an Uber, they have to go out on the 55th, they have to go down 55th, come up north marginal, right?

Ubers charging 25, 30, 40 dollars surge pricing.

So what we've done is we've kind of tried to cut that out, and folks that are tailgating, we can pick them up regular tailgate and take them as close to the stadium as legally possible.

Uh, I know the commissioner has some reservations about that, totally fine with whatever decisions made.

So that's kind of where this came from.

Um, and then we've also noticed that the city is very disconnected as as much as Cleveland has a lot of entertainment districts, they're just kind of disconnected from each other.

It's hard to get from public square to um the chandelier, uh Playhouse Square.

You know, it's hard to get from Playhouse Square to the flats.

So we thought this was a really cool alternative idea.

Um low emissions, we're all general, we're all electric.

So we thought this was a really cool alternative means of way of getting around downtown.

It connects the different districts, and it really just I think it helps the community.

Um, and it's a really great way for limited mobility and ADA friendly folks to get around a little better from my perspective.

Okay, yes, sir.

Uh yes, as I mentioned before, uh I've been given tours since 2011, and basically mine is just an extension of that.

Uh as uh citizens are getting older, not everybody still wants to ride a bicycle on a tour.

So I came up with the idea of uh, you know, golf doing golf cart tours.

And um, you know, I've a lot of the people that I've talked to, it I've gotten you know good response to that.

That uh, you know, I would just like to uh I just feature the history of the city.

Um you know, we basically start in uh Tremont over by where old Sokolowski's used to be, if you know where that's at.

Yes.

And so I take people all through Tremont, downtown on Ohio City, uh, and it's basically a history tour.

Uh there's stops along the way for people that want to take pictures.

And um also the same thing.

We uh we have uh mapped out routes are available for you guys to see if you need to see what exactly where I go.

Okay.

But it mine is basically those three communities.

And then um also eventually uh when there's a big event in time uh in town, Chris and I are gonna help each other do things, you know, if he needs A to B transports, right?

Or if there's uh multiple tours going on, uh we're gonna work together uh you know just to provide uh entertainment for the the citizen people coming to visit Cleveland.

So uh how many occupants can you have in your golf in these these units that you're gonna operate?

I uh I have one unit and uh mine is eight-person unit.

So uh I'm uh seven persons including the driver.

Okay, and then if Chris doesn't mind, I know Chris has uh six three three golf carts.

Three three golf carts and his are six six person golf carts.

Okay.

So to the administration.

And then I can't operate the golf court.

It's got to be operated by the company, correct?

To the chair, that's correct.

As part of the inspection process, the Bureau of Traffic will keep on file approved drivers and driver's licenses, et cetera, for the businesses.

Okay.

Do you have any objection with the requirement that the name of your company be on on the vehicle?

My name is all over my carts already, three different sides.

Same with me.

I already have them on cards, fronts and back.

Okay.

So clearly be identifiable who's driving what.

Absolutely.

Okay.

The right now we're hearing your mentioning basically the downtown near West Side area, maybe Playhouse Square.

What do you envision the cost would be to transport someone from public square to playhouse square?

What do you envision that cost to be?

I charge a $10 flat per $10 per person flat fee.

Basically, for so our kind of the way I market it, kind of, I know I mentioned 65th earlier this because we got a couple calls from bars out there.

But we'll really what the way we're marketing and the way we're looking at it is hingetown to about CSU and $10 flat rate.

Uh we don't surge, that's part of what we're we're talking about, things that we're pushing is we don't search price ten dollars flat rate for anywhere in the downtown area.

Hinge town to CSU.

Okay, thank you.

Um lady, you had a quite no comment.

Okay.

Okay.

I have down councilman starr.

I have councilman Casey.

Anyone else would like to ask questions?

Okay.

We'll start Councilman Star.

No, um thank you.

Chair, just a couple questions.

I want to make sure I have clarified clarifications on the answer.

So for this ordinance 1215, this is being able to um change the codify ordinance to be able to allow um the usage of golf carts to travel on our actual streets and be certified on streets that's 35 miles per hour or lower.

Correct to the chair?

Whoever can answer that?

To the councilman through the chair, that's correct, provided they are related to a business purpose.

To a business purpose.

And then through that being related to the business purposes, they have to be registered with the city or the state.

Or how's that they have to be registered and titled with the state just like any vehicle?

They also have to go through an inspection with the city um led by the Bureau of Traffic.

And and the sole purpose of this is to be able to provide um transportation support to individuals who may be in a certain area where they need some support to get from a long distance where their car.

I heard through the chair, I heard the two gentlemen spoke speak about um the Browns game or something like that, or the Cavs game.

So if I parked on um East 17th, right?

Or in prospect, and I wanted to get to um the Rocket Mortgage, I would be able to then reach out to the golf cart company and they will be able to assist me with a $10, $15 ride through the chair?

To the councilman through the chair, I'll defer to them on the specific business models.

The overall goal of the ordinance is to provide mobility options and support small businesses in the city.

Okay.

That is correct, sir.

Yep.

And through the chair, um to our city to our planning director.

Um, have we had any conversations with individuals who have other businesses such as um garages and locations that's in the city?

Because me here in this model, if I'm someone who have I'm a parking garage and I have a rate, um, and I know Commissioner Scott, I think have have they weigh in on this different changes that can actually happen with this ordinance because if we have businesses in place that got parking garage and they charge a rate already that is closer to the arena, does this affect them?

Because if I'm an individual, say instead of me paying $50 to park right in walking distance, I might park a little farther where I may not have to pay but ten dollars, twenty dollars, and then actually no, I just paid the ten dollars to get there, so therefore there's a difference of change of twenty dollars that I save.

Um, how does that affect individuals who do have parking garages as well as um other locations that the city get money off of that we generate money from?

How does that affect them to the chair?

Do we did any assessments on that?

Director?

To the councilman through the chair.

Uh, we try not to get involved in individual business decisions or price setting for that reason.

We were not involved in the rate setting of the business or anything like that.

Um this is really around just providing opportunity for additional business activity.

And through the chair then, to the to the table, anyone at the table, how much money do the city generate off this type of services being added?

Do we get a cost?

Do we get a fee?

Do we get anything for adding this type of services to the city?

Director?

To the councilman through the chair, there's a 150 dollar per vehicle inspection fee that Bureau of Traffic will assess as the golf carts come in.

Um the legislation authors also authorizes the director um that the director of public safety may charge a fee for pickup and drop-off zones in an amount to be determined by the board of control.

So, for example, if there were pickup or drop-off areas along the curb, um valet is maybe an analogy here.

Uh we could assess fees based on utilization there if we took that through board of control.

Thank you.

And through the chair, if we assess fees, how how would that actually operate?

How do you because one I see the $100 and $50, $150 inspection fee?

How often do these fees has to be paid?

There's an annual inspection.

So annual inspection around $50.

So if a business owner have 10 golf carts, they would pay that $150 every every year.

And then do the city get any rate of renew from that hundred from that total cost, or that goes straight to the state.

No, that's a city fee.

That's a city fee.

Okay, and then from there operate in if I have 10 golf carts and I'm utilizing services throughout all um different portions of events happening downtown, events happening throughout the city or other locations.

Um I know you are heard near Westside.

Um much money is somebody per individual may be utilizing if we're talking about a curveside fee or anything like that.

How how could how I know I don't see how that works?

Sure.

So I'll provide an example and would also invite colleagues if there are I know carriages have specific pickup and drop-off if there's analogies in other systems we have.

But but one example could be, you know, Browns games have come up.

Um say that uh, you know, Bureau of Traffic restricts access at Lakeside right here.

So say a drop-off at Willard Park is a designated drop-off point at Brown's Games for golf carts.

The city could by the director's action going through board of control, could say um golf cart concierge, you have a five dollar drop-up fee per load that you drop off at this designated drop-off location.

And then through the chair, how would you monitor that fee?

It could be it could be in person.

Um it could also be we're currently researching, and I know this committee has been talking about different camera related technologies.

Um there are ways that you can mount a camera at the designated drop-off location, it can read the license plates and keep a video assessment of that.

Okay, that's the ordinance at this point, just uh creates the opportunity for that.

It doesn't set in place any of that because there are these supporting um you know, supporting tools that would need to be in place.

All right, and through that standpoint, I think we we're starting to bake this.

Um I think we gotta really look into this because if I am if I'm not if I'm corrected and reminded I'm trying to remember the total amount of parking garages the city own.

Um do anyone at the table got that number or can I put that to our staff to see how many actual parking garages with in downtown near on west side do the city actually own and how we generate revenue off that because I understand what we're trying to do, um, but I want to make sure it is not something that is going to jeopardi jeopardize some of the revenue that we are generating from different um venues that we have, sporting events, entertainment events that we get revenue from because people are now reluctant to park um closer to the venue as opposed to what they're currently do.

Because if we if we have this model set up and everyone notice, like, hey, parking sometimes goes up to 50, 60 bucks.

Um and depending on the entertainment for the night, it may be 80 to 100 bucks.

I remember last year we passed the ordinance and we gave the rates to adjust accordingly to the commissioner um to be able to make those decisions for the parking garages.

And now we're saying, okay, now we're going to um implement golf carts in place to help with transportation.

If I'm an individual who live um near here, instead of me parking my car in the garage, I might as well park on East 30th.

You know, I might I might be able to park on East 22nd Street.

I'm sorry, and then I can be able to call a golf cart, and for 10 bucks, I can come on down and then take 10 bucks and go back.

So therefore that 80 dollars that I possibly would have paid became $60 loss.

Well, completely 80 dollar loss on the city, and the person saves $60.

And that, you know, those are things that I look at too when I'm just looking at the overall of this ordinance that been brought to us.

So I don't know how we can make make sense of this, and then also me not seeing anything that shows that the city is going to recoup any funding or revenue from this model currently that's what we have here, is something that I am cautious about.

So to the chair, um anybody to the table want to respond to it?

Yeah, I would like to respond to that.

So we're as you're losing revenue in the direct downtown area.

You're all there is chairs.

I'm sorry, to the chair, I'm sorry, sir.

To the chair.

Uh to the council through the chair to the councilman.

Yes.

Um, where you're losing revenue up front to these lots that are right around the uh say the stadium, you're also gaining it, the other lots that are further out, right?

So these lots that are 10, 12 blocks away are now gonna be more populated.

You're gonna have more people paying for those.

So while you're losing an $80 fee, you might have 10 to 10 people that are using those lots that are further away for 15 to 20 dollars.

So you actually there but there could be a net gain though.

I don't know the specifics, I don't know the numbers, but you actually might see a net gain to that.

It's very possible because the outskirt lots.

Yep, and through that, yeah, yeah.

And and just for clarification, I do not think this idea is the worst ideal or nothing like that.

I'm not saying it from that standpoint.

I'm just having open-minded of what we're actually doing and what we're passing.

And then also, do we know um from the table?

Do we know any other cities that actually have this model and they're operating?

Um similar to a cities like similar to Cleveland to the chair?

Who can answer?

Um to the councilman through the chair.

I'll start and then hand it off to Commissioner Holmes.

Um to first address more your concern about parking lot revenue.

I mean, we already have several options for folks who are interested in parking further out.

We have our bike and scooter share, we have RTA buses, we have Uber, we have your own two feet.

There are a lot of options there.

This just sort of adds one more to that.

And so I don't expect a massive market shift.

I think this just adds an additional suite, not to mention that this is a job creation.

You know, this is small business supportive.

There will be jobs, taxes paid, et cetera, et cetera.

Um in terms of other cities, in drafting this, we worked closely with the City of Columbus as well as looking with smaller Ohio communities that have a lot more golf cart use, such as some of our lakeshore communities.

And I'll pass it off to Commissioner if he wants to make sure to say anything more.

Yes, we we had our uh our folks back at the traffic unit reach out to a bunch of different cities.

Um I I want to say Cincinnati may have had this as well.

However, um my biggest concern going forward was how many accidents and were they fatal, were they serious?

Uh the uh folks down at Columbus, their traffic units that there have been no fatal accidents with these.

Um that was really my sticking point with the director.

Um I push back on some things, but uh I I don't look at it as just as like a ride share type thing.

Like if I own a business and I wanted to deliver sandwiches to an apartment building or something like that.

Like this is is an all-encompassing and it's it's a growth of what we started with the scooters and the electric bikes.

Um and you're gonna ask the director, I was really never a big fan of the scooters and and and the electric bikes.

I but I've kind of come over to the dark side as I always tell her.

Um I think you know, with less congestion, less cars that have to be less bicycles that you know, these things are a little bit more visible.

We have commercial vehicle uh folks that have gone through training to be able to inspect trucks.

These are the folks that are gonna inspect the um the golf cars.

So um, and I wrap up, Chair.

Um my last point is um I know you alluded to um cities in Ohio such as Cincinnati and Columbus who have this model, and do we have any pros and cons of those different reports of what they've seen and things that they have that we can share so we can look at it as well as a council.

Also, in addition, some research idea.

Um I know Peachtree down in Georgia, that city has um this this model.

Sun City in Arizona has this model.

Um Lady Lake in Florida has this model, and it's a couple of cities in Texas have this model as well.

And then Ocean Isles Beach in North Carolina has this model.

Have we done any research from them to be able to understand um why they have this model, what does their city look like, what type of way they operate, how beneficial it is for them, just so we can say that we do have enough support and evidence of why this is a good approach to map to the chair.

To the councilman through the chair.

Um, as a native Georgian Peachtree City is famous for golf cart use.

Many of those communities are a little bit different than what we're proposing here because they do allow individuals to use golf carts.

So you see a much higher volume, it's not associated with the business purpose, the registered drivers, et cetera, et cetera.

So it's a little bit apples to oranges when you look at some of those other examples nationwide.

Um because this ordinance, as the commissioner mentioned in passing, um, the state of Ohio has some basic laws in place for golf cart or under speed vehicle utilization.

It also requires local municipalities like us to pass something like the ordinance that's in front of you in order to allow them to operate on our streets.

So for that reason, we felt like the big cities in Ohio were sort of the best analogy for us.

Um I'm not aware of any published reports, but we did reach out to the folks that are on the ground enforcing and implementing and and to commissioner's point, there were no real concerns that they raised that they've experienced.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Before I go on, Councilman Casey.

Um where are your businesses located at?

Sorry.

Uh I'm located in Old Brooklyn.

Okay.

Yeah, uh well, I live in Parma Heights, but my cart is stored in Tremont area.

Okay.

Yeah.

So you the cart your is your but is your physical business in the city of Cleveland or is it?

Oh no, it's just it's just my home address.

Okay.

Yeah.

Gotcha.

Um see what other question I had here before I go on to Councilman Casey.

Um the cart itself, you indicated their electric.

How long can you operate that vehicle?

Time frame.

Uh it's less time frame and more mileage.

So uh for my cart, I get about 50 to 60 miles per charge.

Okay, gotcha.

Thank you.

Councilman Casey.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr.

Chairman, to our our presenters, is this ordinance just call for electric or is that electric or gas?

To the councilman through the chair, it's not specific as to fuel type.

And is this who defines or what defines a golf cart, right?

Because we have um cocoa boxers or cocoa coupes that people say that they're golf carts, but they're really small, very small cars or or whatever.

I mean what's are we defining what a golf cart actually is?

Yes, to the councilman through the chair, um that's one of the things that is in Ohio revised code.

It defines different types of vehicles.

This ordinance specifically speaks to under speed vehicles that are defined in section 4501.01 XX of the Ohio Revised Code.

And um I can read the definition if you would like.

Is it in this ordinance?

Yes.

Yes, it's it will be included in our update to the codified ordinances in section 401.7.

Um just like Mr.

Chairman to to the other side of the table, just like we like at the airport, we we restricted Uber drivers, and you know, you you have to plan ahead and there's a lot that you have to use.

We don't have any of that for this, so there's a potential that suppose we had a hundred new companies come in and open up, right?

And on game day, a hundred new companies are operating in the city of Cleveland, and they all have ten golf carts, and you know, we've got thousands of golf carts hanging out in front of Tower City, thousand hanging out just south of Lakeside.

You know, uh I are we managing this?

Are we restricting this?

I mean, there's a potential here where we could have thousands of new golf carts on event days in the city of Cleveland that you know are I don't want to say a street takeover, but are taking over our streets where you know regular vehicles won't be able to get through the streets because we have so many golf carts.

Through the chair, councilman.

Uh great point.

Um that's uh actually uh through the ordinance in section 4505 that gives the director of public safety the ability to restrict those areas, so I can create a restricted uh area map or service map for uh the uh golf carts.

And Mr.

Chairman, then to the director, are you going to restrict the areas?

At least specific to game days.

Uh through the chair to Councilman Casey.

Um we will take all of that under uh consideration.

I'll talk obviously with the traffic commissioner and his folks.

Um they're they're the experts.

Uh so we will take all that understanding.

All right, let's let's let's ask the commissioner then.

Uh Mr.

Chairman to the Commissioner, are we are we going to I mean because uh currently right now the ordinance does not allow, doesn't have that in it, right?

Um but if something happens, Commissioner Did you want the ordinance the current the ordinance now or an amendment rather will allow us or allow me to restrict the area.

Right, but Mr.

Chairman to the director, with all due respect, we don't have that right now.

It allows you in the future, but we're not having that now.

We could wake up this Sunday, right for a home game, no next Sunday for a home game, give them a week.

And and all of a sudden we could have vehicles inspected, okay, by the end of the year, whatever.

There by the time they go through the process, but we're not restricting, you know, there could be 40, 30 companies come in here and because it's new to the city, and we have a big convention, we got Special Olympics coming to town, right, in 2030, right?

So we know that we're gonna need an overabundance of ways to get individuals around the city.

So what's gonna stop us from having 3,000 golf carts on the you know uh downtown Cleveland?

And with all due respect, Mr.

Chairman to director, I know that this allows you to potentially do that, but we're not putting anything in place right now.

Or through the chairman, Commissioner through the councilman.

Um we restrict people anyways right now with our our Brown's traffic plan, nobody gets north of Lakeside, nobody on West Third and West Ninth.

Uh we got the comos of people down there coming out of the Muni lot uh with our um what's it our scooters and stuff like that specifically?

We have you know you can't be south of Euclid or north of this this area.

If we had a thousand golf carts come in, most of we're not gonna be able to inspect that many.

I'm just gonna throw them out there.

And even if we did, we they are subject to the same traffic laws, just like a bicycle would be.

We can't we don't restrict bicycles anywhere in the city.

So these are they will follow rules of the road, they don't do it.

We have the ability to tow impound it, and then the uh the director, I keep wanting to say Cali, but it's the director on we talked about ways of hey, if if this becomes a problem, your permit's gonna get revoked.

So with the addition of maybe the names on the carts, we will hey, you know, we we have a list, we're we're we we will enforce that, believe me.

All right, Mr.

Chairman, to to direct uh I have the same problem.

The director, um why stop at businesses?

Why why don't we open up this opportunity to listen, you know, I get a thousand calls a day, right?

And I'm constantly bobbing around my ward.

Chairman to to direct uh I have the same problem to director um why stop at businesses why why don't we open up this opportunity to listen you know I get a thousand calls a day right and I'm constantly beboping around my ward how much easier would it be to just jump into a golf cart you know and head over two streets as opposed to getting on getting in my car and doing exactly what your department doesn't want us to do with all the driving right and and why why can't we open this up to regular transportation um throughout the city to the councilman through the chair I still think an e-bike is a great I won't disagree but we're not talking about to the councilman through the chair you raised two sort of separate concerns right one is an influx and in a flooding in and the other is uh a concern about the current restriction we know that this is a new thing in the city we can't foresee exactly what the demand will be or what the influx will be the ordinance is written in a way that provides a lot of control from a public safety perspective to the Department of Public Safety to tailor our response and our regulations based on the dynamics that emerge as this as this starts.

So in conversation with the businesses with planning with public safety we felt like this was a very good introduction of golf carts to our streets um there are obviously scaling issues with number of inspections there are driver authorized driver issues if if it like anyone can have a golf cart out on the street um this is a good way to begin to see what emerges to see what the interest is like and you you know codified ordinances can be changed right we can always come back in partnership with council to open it wider if we feel that that's in the interest but um this is a this is a way to enable the business activity that there's a demand for while giving authority to restrict and maintain public safety should it be needed if there is an influx if we see things getting out of control etc you could always get on your legal dirt bike or at v attention I think they're gonna stop me there we go there we go right commissioner through the chair to the council in our discussions with with the director what what did what we didn't want was these to be in the neighborhood in mass just like a street takeover so this was a way to introduce this and if as the director said the need you know just kind of expanded or strapellated out then we could come back through the director with with council and and and change it that way um that was a big concern of mine was people are going to say oh this ATV is a is a dirt bike or it doesn't go 20 miles an hour.

So that was really the concern on on the safety perspective is I didn't want people to come in and say well these don't go 35 and they just take over the street and we we can't do anything about it.

So that was a way to kind of introduce it and still have some control over all right so uh my last point then Mr.

Chairman to the other side of the table so there with this legislation there's absolutely nothing that's gonna that would stop me from establishing a business down state BK vehicles whatever it is taking my vehicle my take buying purchasing a golf cart sending it over to the commissioner to get inspected paying my 150 a year fee but you can't tell me how I that I couldn't use it just to bebop around the neighborhood because you can't tell me how to run my business right I mean that that's that could be a way around it.

So how I run my business is not in the ordinance because I am transporting I'm transporting myself and when you know I'm just saying so there could potentially be a way around this because just because I'm not just because my business my new my new business adventure isn't profitable I still have the ability to bebop around the city um under the osmos that I have a business and Commissioner Holmes is inspected it and I paid my fee correct to the councilman through the chair if you have a certificate of good standing with the state of Ohio from the Secretary of State then yes that is what we're using as uh an indication for the police of business activity doesn't say how I have to it just says that I just need my certificate correct a certificate of good standing is required as part of the vehicle inspection application which we know how easy those are to get all right there.

All right thank you Mr.

Chairman thank you uh councilwoman gray thank you chair um my question is similar to what um councilman uh casey just um stated about um here it says that uh vehicles to provide short distance ride shares and touring opportunity in downtown cleveland cleveland and surrounding neighborhoods so those surrounding neighbors you know would be chair to uh the two gentlemen that has the golf carts um golf carts per se with uh surrounding neighborhoods you know will be downtown or downtown um and or if someone want to uh be taken somewhere else on touring uh a venture you know would that be out of the downtown area uh per se and maybe into the neighborhoods as you stated you have tremor um uh tremont ohio city um what's the other area you said if you're Detroit right so uh so stating that

Um, and or if someone want to uh be taken somewhere else on touring uh a venture, you know, would that be out of the downtown area up per se, and maybe into the neighborhoods as you stated, you have Tremont, um uh Tremont, Ohio City, um what's the other area you said if you're Detroit, right?

So uh so stating that what other surrounding neighborhoods, you know, that you would be touring uh, you know, in the golf cart.

Chair to um together.

Yes.

Gentlemen who could you care to answer if you can.

Okay, uh Chair to the councilwoman.

Yes, my uh the I do tour all through Tremont, so it's uh it's in the neighborhoods and also through downtown and Ohio City.

That is the business model that I have right now.

Uh it's similar to the business model I used when I was giving tours on bicycles.

Um the reason I picked those three areas is those are the areas that most people are interested in.

Uh there's a lot of history there.

Uh old churches or built old buildings, architecture, different things.

Of course, our you know, our new lake front with all the science center, rock hall, and stadium and that thing.

Um I have done some special tours in the past, like university circle.

Um I'm not just pigeonholed to the west side, it just happens to be that that's what most people want to see because it route up and coming areas, Tremont, Ohio City.

Uh but yeah, it does go through the neighborhoods, but I have mapped out routes that are available for you guys to look at.

It shows exactly where I go.

Yeah.

So council?

Oh, okay.

To the chair to the council person.

Um so I don't have any mapped out routes like Bob.

Uh but I like I said, I'm mostly hingetown to CSU.

Uh we have Red Hat requests from folks that are out as far as West 65th down Detroit.

Um, the one thing we want to keep in mind though is we're only doing 20 miles an hour on a golf cart, so uh a ride out anywhere to the outskirts is gonna take anywhere from 30 to 40 minutes.

So most times it's not feasible for us to get to the outskirt neighborhoods of the of Cleveland.

It just doesn't make sense from a financial perspective or from a battery usage perspective.

So that's that's also why we kind of say the downtown area, because it just doesn't make sense for us to get any further than say Hingtown to CSU.

Um, would there be a call maybe for somebody that wanted to ride here and there from a neighborhood?

Probably to a Browns game or a Cavs game, but uh the bulk of it would just be the downtown area.

That's a good question because by you saying surrounding neighborhoods, say uh you know, say per se someone want to um um go out of the downtown neighborhood, want to um not go to the west side.

Say if someone wants to go farther out to the east side, would that be part of your um agenda, uh a package to travel outside uh further out to the east side per se?

If someone want to just uh you know, arbitrarily say, I want to go uh to University Circle, uh, you know, I want to go uh a further out uh to the East Lake, you know, would you go that far out and or just stay in the downtown surrounding neighborhoods per se?

I'm just giving a hypothetical uh question because you might chair to the two gentlemen, you might get that.

Um you might get that from somebody who wants to tour outside of the downtown and surrounding neighborhoods.

So do you have you know an agenda package of your route and how far you would travel and also and also second question is you know, will you be traveling in the traffic lanes of downtown per se, and not like off of the traffic lanes, so she's gonna be going a certain amount of speed?

Chair to two gentlemen.

Whoever can answer.

Yes, uh chair to the councilwoman.

Uh yeah, so I have I have specific routes on my website that uh tours that you take, like one of them is called the best location in a nation tour, which is of downtown Cleveland, and it's specific to downtown Cleveland.

And the other one is called the neighborhood tours, and that's specific to Tremont, Ohio City, and downtown.

Now, in my past, when I did bicycle tours, I did at some point add tours of the university circle area, uh, as a lot of people were interested in the museums and the history in that area.

Uh, but at present time, those are the two tours that I have.

But no, I same as uh Chris mentioned, it doesn't make any feasible sense to go more than you know four or five miles from downtown because of the it's just it's not profitable, and then we both have electric carts, so you have to be mindful of how far you're going in case you have more than a tour in a day because you you know can't stop the recharge or anything.

But uh that's basically what my model is.

Is it answer your question?

Yes, it does.

It does.

Okay.

Mine is mine is very similar.

I it just doesn't make sense for us to go much further than East 30th to say West 30th, right?

Because of the batteries.

Um it it it would take me from from say Hingtown to University Circle probably take 45 minutes on a golf cart to go one way.

Right.

Because you're only doing 20 miles an hour.

Um I think the ordinance does mention that we'll be on city streets as well.

So yes, we will be on regular city streets.

Um none of the streets in Cleveland are zoned above 25.

So that we're doing 20, I think is comparable to the 25 miles an hour.

So you know we're safe.

We're on the city streets just like cars.

Okay.

Any other questions, counseling?

Okay, let's try to make some heads or tails.

So um we know we have two operators right now that have been identified.

Is there any restriction as to how many can apply?

How many other operators can apply to the chair?

At this point, there is no restriction.

The director under the authority to create rules and regulations could put a cap on those.

Um I will say in addition to these two gentlemen we've heard from downtown Cleveland Incorporated that uses golf carts for their service, and that's the third potential user that we're aware of through this process.

Um it does create opportunities for other businesses that might want to serve other areas or the same to also start businesses and do that activity.

And we have that's and so I'm just trying to get some understanding.

So there's no restriction as pertains to the number of operators who come on as long as they meet the requirements under the legislation.

150 dollar fine must meet all the requirements as it pertains to the vehicle itself, correct?

That's correct.

Okay.

The mention the commissioner mentioned that golf carts cannot go north of north of Lakeside.

These gentlemen indicated that they might haul people from the Muni lot to the um still present Brown Stadium.

How they're allowed to go past 9th Street?

Uh I'm I'm sorry, sir, to the chair, uh less 9th Street or less than Muni lot.

We we don't really service meeting lot because they're right there walking.

Okay.

I'm talking about like the pit, or if you're down in the flats, okay.

Or if you're on each twelfth somewhere, you know, yeah, we certainly don't go to the Muni lot is not somewhere we want to go.

So uh golf carts would to the commissioner are would be restricted where around the Brown Stadium, present Brown Stadium.

Right now, if you were on East Ninth Street, you couldn't get get north of Lakeside Chairman.

Unless you were on a bike, a regular bike.

Right.

Now I will say that once this is implemented and we see hey, maybe we let them north of Wheeler Garage, and that's it.

What what I'm concerned about is is the amount of people on both West Third and East 9th Street.

Now you can go all the way to St.

Clair, cross over 55th, come down to North Marginal.

You wouldn't be restricted that way.

Right.

Okay.

I got you.

Okay.

Okay.

Um I would ask one of my colleagues to make uh an amendment uh motion to make sure that there must be identification on the cart.

There must be clearly stated the name of the business on the cart.

Are you going to require a number be placed on the vehicle?

To the chair, yes, they will have both a license plate like any other vehicle, as well as a sticker that has the inspection, the proof of inspection with the sticker with the proof of inspection in here?

That is included, yes.

Okay.

So I will I would ask one of my colleagues, make the motion as it pertains to the identification be placed on the cart itself, the name of the business.

I got you, Chair.

Thank you.

Um please um I would like to make the amendment to ordinance number 1215-2025.

Um you could possibly add this amendment under Section 450.05.

Um at their city records, you can add uh within the visibility and safety regards, all vehicles operating should have name of business, contact phone number, as well as email platform.

Thank you, Councilman.

Is there a second to that?

Sorry.

Thank you.

The motion, there's been a motion made and seconded.

All those in favor of the amendment say aye.

Opposed?

Okay.

So the amendment to the assistant law director.

Do you have a you understand the amendment?

I believe so, yes.

It's to uh require the display of the name of the business, um, the contact number and email address uh of that business as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um the um to the um two gentlemen that are here.

How does somebody contact you to get a get a ride?

Is it because you you go to your website, but how else?

If someone's out in the street, how do they how do they get a hold of you?

So uh uh yeah, we uh we have we both I have a website, I also have an app, and then I have my website.

You can text my phone directly.

Okay.

Yeah, we have several different avenues of contact.

Okay, I got you.

Okay.

Um without is there any further discussion?

Without and I'm I will say this to the operators.

Um we're gonna monitor this.

Sure.

And I say to the administration as well, we're gonna monitor this.

So if we all of a sudden get a flood of operators um and there are some issues, then we want to be able to have some dialogue here.

Because the last thing we want to have is a bunch of folks flying around the city and these things and then have potential problems.

Okay.

So without objection, ordinance number 1215-2025, which is a substitute ordinance for number 808-2025.

Um is uh is approved as amended.

Please sign it up.

And to my colleagues, please don't leave for a moment because we want to get some updates here on some couple policies.

Yes.

Okay.

Uh can I to the chair?

Can I ask you a question?

Yes, sir.

Yeah, I was wondering if uh if council would listen up, everybody.

I'm sorry.

I was wondering if council would consider waiving the third reading.

No.

So that no.

No, no, no.

Okay.

Why why can I ask why?

Because that's okay.

I'm just trying to understand what's going on.

No, um we have I I will say this again.

Listen up, everyone, please, for the viewing public and to you.

Um, we moved expeditiously when it came to us.

I'm not I'm not I'm not sure.

Yeah, you know how long this has been in discussion.

Sure.

Yeah.

You've I've heard this has been in discussion for God knows how long.

Yeah.

When it came to us is I indicated what I I don't have in front of me.

It came to us on September, I think it was 28th or something like that.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

The reason I am asking is I know that sometimes you are able to not have that third reading.

We all don't get to be able to do that.

That's that's our that's our purview.

Yes, I'm not sure.

So again, we'll we're moving on.

We moved on it expeditiously, and um and again, I thank you for your testimony.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, guys, appreciate it.

The director is coming back.

Listen up, we are going to hear um update on the drones, uh comment on the pursuit policy.

Um and then there is a growing concerns within the body about council members not being notified of very troubling and or violent um circumstances that take place that have taken place in their wards as it pertains to notification.

So we're gonna try to get some clarification on that.

So I think the director had to make a pit stop, I think.

Um but um we're gonna get our folks to the table because we have some um we have some concerns here that we need I had a 16-year-old shot two weeks ago, had a 17-year-old shot, and I still haven't gotten a cough from off.

Okay.

There you then I hope you're assistant law right there.

Yeah.

I hope you are going to engage that.

And so I am uh I myself am very um I'm concerned about the lack of notification of members of council when there is serious circumstances.

Um I'll wait to the director, and I was hoping the chief was gonna be here, but I I um wonder why not.

Is there any reason, Director, why the chief is not here today?

I should be some call this morning.

I think there's a lot of well as soon as the administration comes back to the table, we're gonna address these concerns or hear uh an update.

Okay.

Director, I was asked, is there a reason why the chief is not here today?

Do we know?

The Chair.

Um she is tied up on another matter.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

So let's get right into it.

Um we'll get into the drone update.

If you would you want to start there, or you have another.

Yeah, sure.

We can start with that too.

Okay, go ahead.

Commander mussel is on the way back.

He just had step out as well.

Thank you.

And uh we'll have him.

I'll start with the updates uh for the drone first responders uh relative to the division of fire.

Okay, well let me just say this as uh for the viewing public.

Um City Council uh over two years ago passed legislation to purchase and implement drones within the City of Cleveland.

Um greatly concerned that that did not take place and it did not take place from what we've been explaining because of the Federal monitor, had to review the process.

Um if what I'm saying is incorrect, please correct me.

And then the Community Police Commission had to approve of the of the drones being implemented as well.

So this has been over two years in the making, which has not made me a happy camper, because I thought uh the drones should have been up a long time ago to help facilitate uh the Cleveland Division of Police Fire EMS, but also as a um an added insurance policy for our citizens in our neighborhoods where there is issues of missing children fires.

We we all name it.

We see how drones are being utilized in other sections, other municipalities across not only the State of Ohio, but across the country.

So Director, the floor is yours.

Thank you.

Thank you, uh Chair, and to the other members.

Uh with me at the table is to my left is Commander Mussel.

Um he'll uh speak specifically about the Division of Police and their drone program.

I'll talk uh specifically about the Division of Fire and uh drone first responders, and then to my right is Assistant Director Shachner as well for my office.

So I'll start off and then I'll turn it over to uh Commander Mussel.

I'll start off about the uh drone first responders program that we're envisioning um out of the division of fire.

Uh it's in the uh initial stages.

Uh right now the the planning stages uh to uh start our drone first responders program with division of fire.

We're identifying uh pilots through the division of fire, uh identifying locations where they will operate out of um this uh program.

Also um where the drone itself, uh the model that we're using will operate from.

Um what I mean by that, uh what location will the physical drone uh be uh placed?

Uh we're looking at uh a couple of locations.

Um right now, our our model that we're starting up with and we'll have an evaluation phase uh before we uh expend extend the program um to other uh parts of the city.

So right now it's in the uh downtown area we are looking at uh um placement of that particular drone so we can cover the major highways, uh the lake, um, uh their rescues that are conducted by the division of fire on the lakes and so forth.

And this will give us the ability or your division of fire, the ability to actually get a drone up in the air, respond to a call for service, and make an assessment, see whether or not we need to send several apparatuses to a particular incident.

Also give us the ability, understanding flight restrictions from the FAA relative to our two airports and one, obviously Burken and Hopkins and so forth, but still giving us the ability to get the drone up in air, get the drone to an assignment, make an assessment, see what type of uh apparatus or equipment we need to respond to a specific uh uh call for service, or if there is a fire having the ability again to send a drone up to give an assessment for the firefighter so to have a real-time bird's eye view of uh and situational awareness of what is transpiring again, so they can make a plan of action to uh respond to that particular incident.

Could they be utilized for EMS as well?

Truth chair, that absolutely that that is uh part of it.

Uh let's say there is an an accident on the highway, the drone goes up, um uh see uh the extent of the damage and so forth, and also will uh uh give us the uh again the opportunity to get uh situational awareness to what the uh the fire individuals as well as EMS uh employees are responding to.

Do you have the units already?

We do not currently have.

That's why I said it's in the early stages.

We do not have the uh unit uh yet, but we are doing some um some uh of our backwork background information work rather to again find out the best location for it, um get our pilots trained from the uh division of uh uh fire, the location that these individuals will work out of, and then purchasing the drones and uh getting them up and operational, and also uh making sure that we have the appropriate uh policies in place and the training associated with that, those policies.

So we're still in their early stages.

So you you have you is there a time frame as to when you envision these being up?

Through the chair, I like to get them up by the end of the year.

That's my goal is to get them up by the end of the year.

Okay.

Okay.

Continue.

Sure.

And that again, that's just an update on the drone first responders program through the division of fire and also applications for the division of EMS.

I am going to turn it over now to Commander Mussel, who's gonna get into more of the specifics of the division of police and their drone program.

Okay.

To the chair, the division of police currently uh owns and operates nine SkyDO X-10 drones.

We have nine trained pilots in command, PICs, and we have recently used drones for the machine gun Kelly concert in downtown.

The Cleveland Guardians playoff games.

Yesterday the drone operators were called up for a missing juvenile.

Um, however, they were canceled because they found the juvenile.

Okay.

And as recent as this recent as this morning, the drone operator was called up to help a district with a fleeing suspect.

Okay.

Where are the drones located?

They are centrally located, uh, an easy spot and that's operated 24 hours a day that our drone operators can get to quickly.

Okay.

Now you know that some municipalities have various locations stationed.

They have them stationed out various locations so they can go up quicker.

Some cities utilize their actual firehouses as command posts for drones because of their uh dynamic positioning.

So we only have one prime location where they're flying out of?

To the chair, currently there is one location because the SCADEO drones require constant updating and constant charging.

So not only does the drone itself need to be updated and charged, but the battery pack and the controller.

So we're keeping it in a location that's 24 hours, manned 24 hours so that we can ensure they are ready to go for any any reason.

And how long can they stay up?

I don't have that information from you, but I can get it for you.

I like it.

And then what's the distance?

Because if they're in the downtown area, um councilman Slife is extreme west side.

I'm extreme northeast side.

Um you have Lee Harvard, Mount Pleasant, you have Old Brooklyn.

So we have the edge neighborhoods.

Uh can we ever expect to see drones in our neighborhoods?

Oh, the drone uh call-up this morning was in the fourth district.

In the what district?

The fourth district.

Okay.

So what is the distance they can fly?

Do we know?

I don't have that information.

Okay, and we're going to request that.

We want to know how long they can stay up the distance, because we want to make sure.

Um, because I also say that um we have this reoccurring problem where we're looking for uh a dangerous dog.

Um, you know, and we've seen um we've seen what can happen when we have dangerous dogs or packs of dogs.

So we can utilize them in this case as well to track where we're having these problems with animals.

To the chair, yes.

Okay.

Okay.

So nine drones up now.

How many people are trained?

We have nine uh uh pilots in command trained.

Yeah.

We have the division of police to the chair, we have applied for part 91, uh, which will give us, if approved by the FAA will give us the ability to have one instructor create more pilots.

Are the pilots to the command to the director?

Do the pilots have other responsibilities besides just operating drones?

To the chair, that is correct, they do.

They do, okay.

So we're not taking nine officers like out of patrol duty.

That's correct.

We are not.

Okay.

Um let me see what else we have here.

Um the age of the drones are what?

That was a concern with us, the fact that they were sitting for two years.

Are they still what's the best word to use?

They still uh is their technology still up to date?

To the chair, yes.

The drones are uh constantly updated through that uh through the um the area where they are kept and they're they're flying perfectly well.

On the do we have a requirement contract for maintenance on them?

I mean, how how are they maintained?

Uh we do have a contract currently, and they are maintained by um the drone operators that we have in the division.

Okay.

Questions of the committee on Cleveland Police drones and on the first responder drones.

So what you are telling us today, uh Director, we're gonna have two drone components, correct?

Through the Chair, that's correct.

One for fire, EMS, whatever.

Could building and housing utilize them as well?

Through the drone to through the chair, that's correct.

Uh, if there was an application, we would use the drone first responders program to help other departments, yes, that's correct.

And then the police policy is governed or overseen by the Federal Monitor and CPC, correct?

Through the Chair, that is correct.

Okay.

Questions?

Yes, Councilwoman Gray.

Thank you, Chair.

Uh, are the drones up now?

Uh and or you know, and or when did they go up?

When will they be up?

Through the chair, uh through councilwoman Gray.

The drones are up and operating now as uh uh Commander Mussel just stated, they used them this morning in a situation as well.

So yes, they're currently up and and and running.

Thank you.

And um, what specific areas are they up now, Chair to the Director?

Any Pacific area of the realm, the City of Cleveland as um as um chair ask per se?

Through the chair to the councilwoman.

Uh they're up uh like it was in the fourth district.

I don't know exactly where in the fourth district now, so where there is a need, the uh uh officers or the pilots will get those drones up in those areas.

So it's not restricted, only where strict is we have flight restriction through the FFAA, other than that, there are no restrictions where we'll take those particular drones.

Okay.

Um another question.

I think this is awesome news.

Uh due to director, as you aware of all the um of the throwback activity that we have on the weekends at Lou Eastern Park.

I'm gonna put it out there like it should be, and the uh harassment calls that um council and fourth district get with the drag racing, with the overwhelming of uh partying in the park at uh Zamba George uh Zelma George Rec Center on Sundays.

Uh basically it's every day of the week, and we know it's a public park.

I'm not saying no one should have a good time in a public park.

What I am stating is that the overwhelming calls that we get constantly every weekend or every day with partying in the parking lot of drag racing of the constant uh loud music constant practically every day, thank goodness it's 7 o'clock, you know, um it get dark at 7 o'clock now.

Yeah, but uh by the fourth district uh and I get constant calls, uh uh, especially on the weekends.

Uh will the drones be effective from those uh residents who uh can't take the constant drag racing, loud music, uh uh harassment on the weekends, you know, such and that manner.

Can that um can the drones be directed to assist with that overwhelming uh a nuisance that the residents can't take it anymore?

Through through the uh chair to the director.

Yes, through the chair to councilwoman uh gray.

That's really a great question.

Um I know you mentioned Luke Easter Park, and there's an issue.

I know that uh you call relative to some of the complaints and issues yesterday.

Yes, yes, yes, ma'am.

So to answer your question, um the drones can be used to assist the officers, their criminal activity, they're calling for criminal activity.

Uh yes, the drones can give the uh officers a situational awareness what's going on.

Uh if there's legal active activity taking place, drag racing and such, then the drones can be used to again give the officers a situational awareness and also help them in hopefully identifying individuals involved in the illegal activity.

Okay, wonderful, wonderful.

That's a breath of fresh air.

And I and I'm a consistent listen, I'm a I'm a homeowner, I live in the neighborhood, and um it's just so much a council person can uh assist with those type of activities uh every day and on the weekend is overwhelming uh how we uh need to understand how we can assist our residents in the neighborhood who uh who can't bear a lot of that uh certain type of activity.

We know it's a public park, but however, it's overwhelming for homeowners and uh uh you know to deal with with that constant 10 and 12 hours, maybe 15 hours a day, all day weekend.

So I just uh I think that's if they're listening, uh we got some help.

We got some assistance.

And also another thing, uh, one more question chair to the director.

Uh we had um the conversation just the other day about the smoke shops.

Uh we the you know, you know, you know that's we want to hold that for a moment because we're gonna just we're gonna that would be like miscellaneous.

Okay, okay.

All right, thank you.

So uh one thing based on the council lady's comments.

There was a time in the evening, nighttime that we utilized the helicopters to fly over these parks and use their light to more or less say it's time to go home.

Are we still doing that at all in some of these areas?

To the chair, we do utilize our helicopters for various uh um functions uh uh currently they're they're used for uh some of the issues we have on the uh uh near West Side with the car break inside.

Right.

Their details are set up right now and utilizing our helicopters.

So we use utilize them in uh as many ways as we can to assist the uh crime um officers and uh effectively doing their own.

I'm saying that we have the two helicopters, correct?

Yes, sir.

And we passed the legislation.

I know I passed that legislation to refurbish them.

Um I just want to make sure that that was a very effective tool flying into the parks, not landing, but above with the spotlight, and they still have the spotlight, correct?

Yes, sir.

Time to go home.

Time to go home.

I mean, because as the council lady indicated, council members are constantly besieged with uh quality of life issues, and we can't control that.

We don't have the authority.

We can't hire, we cannot fire, we cannot deploy, we can't administer, we're prohibited, but we're the ones getting the complaints.

So again, I would hope that uh that same policy uh that we once had would be implemented.

Are there any other questions on the drones before we move on?

We have two other critical issues here.

Okay.

Uh pursuit policy.

Yeah.

Update us on the pursuit policy.

We've had these high-speed chases and/or pursuits into the city of Cleveland, which have resulted in fatalities.

Um there was one last week out of the city of Euclid, um, which resulted in a individual uh being killed on his way home from work.

Um and I found out after the fact I know his sister-in-law, her si his sister-in-law is a friend of mine, um, just minding his own business, going home.

I did see the video, so I can't even per se it was a high-speed pursuit, because at one point the the the vehicle on the Euclid dash cam, the vehicle, you could not even see the vehicle until the Euclid police arrived on the scene of the accident.

So I it it wasn't one of these things where they're they're on the tail of the car, but nonetheless, it was a pursuit.

And one of the things that that was directed to me when I raised the question, and I've raised this question before to my little colleagues, um, that the City of Cleveland has a pursuit policy.

And it's a and it's a well-detailed pursuit policy.

But when the suburban communities cross our border, if they are a chartered city in the State of Ohio, they do not have to adhere to our pursuit policy.

They adhere to their own pursuit policy, correct?

To the chair, that's correct.

And that's the challenge.

And so again, I've been talking to some folks on the county level.

I've been talking to some people from some of the surrounding suburbs.

I'm of the opinion there needs to be a countywide pursuit policy.

That's my opinion.

And I'm pro-law enforcement, you all know that.

But there I can't, I'm constantly told that we have no control over this coming into our city.

And the other thing that I found out that evening that our CPD was never notified of the pursuit.

I guess because maybe it happened quickly, but we were not notified of this pursuit.

Yet we had helicopters up in the air in a different section of town.

Could a helicopter been deployed to respond to follow this vehicle?

I don't know.

I mean, it's this is all after the fact.

And I'm not second guessing that the Euclid police department, because from what they sent me, they received a call for shots being fired.

And that's why they responded to the scene initially, and then which which led to the pursuit.

Uh shots being fired in their city, up on somewhere near uh 222 in the city of Euclid on along St.

Clair Avenue.

So we all know these individuals who are driving these vehicles.

This one was stolen, I'm told, out of Streetsboro.

Um they don't care, they have no respect, no no concern.

There it's they're gonna do their thing.

But uh but I'm all I'm concerned about safeguarding the men and women and law enforcement, but I'm also concerned about the innocent.

This is the second uh loss of life on the Northeast side due to a pursuit.

And the lady who was killed approximately two years ago, I knew her.

I knew her on 156 and Calcutta.

I knew her.

And I found about it after she was identified.

On her way to church, on her way to church, she was killed.

And again, that was another pursuit of a stolen vehicle.

And I believe that might have been a carjacking that one.

So, Director, what's your thoughts?

Can we somehow get together with our suburban counterparts with our county officials and come up with this countywide pursuit policy?

Pursuits themselves are inherently dangerous.

I know.

And I know you are aware of that.

And also these last uh unfortunate um deaths involved in these high speed pursuits did not involve division of police.

Cleveland Division of Police Vehicles and officers uh they were from uh either county sheriff or other uh foreign agencies outside of the City of Cleveland, but inherently pursuits are uh are dangerous.

That's why here in the City of Cleveland we have very restrictive policy.

Right.

Uh it's it's a long policy, but it's very is vetted.

Um I believe uh one of the better policies throughout the United States uh that limit uh our our pursuits.

Uh doesn't stop our officers to long as they comply with the provisions of the uh policy to pursue those in violation, but it's very restrictive.

Now, there have been talks in the past uh with the uh county uh sheriff departments, or county um chiefs of police association to um to come up with some guidelines and recommendations relative to pursuits that enter into other jurisdictions, and those are recommendations.

Um each um municipality is governed by their own um policies uh that they have to adhere to the uh there is little that we can do besides getting folks together at a table like we're we're doing here to talk through it, see what we can do collectively to come up with recommendations for the municipalities to hopefully adhere to.

And going back what we discussed just a moment ago, it's one of the reasons why I lobbied so hard over the years to get the drones because I thought the drones could be utilized to help cut down on the pursuits that we have.

Because again, you can put them up and you can you can disengage and you can follow the suspects, but again, it's taking us over two years because of outside oversight and outside groups who had to um sign off on this.

But uh again, I I'm just I'm like most people.

I am in I we want the bad guys caught.

We want the bad guys caught.

But we have got to figure out how to minimize the carnage that we're seeing taking place.

And innocent people like that could have been any of us.

Could have been any of us at that location.

And um, and so I'm I'm extremely troubled by it.

Um I'm waiting to hear the the funeral arrangements.

Um, because again, I know the I know members of the family, and um it's extremely troubling.

And I'm hoping this individual who is driving the car is being charged with vehicular homicide, at least I'm hoping that's the case.

Um again, a stolen car out of Streetsboro, and look what it resulted in loss of an innocent person's life for no reason.

So I I I'm prepared, I just want to say I'm prepared to be a part of any discussion, any gathering, any meeting with county officials, other suburban municipalities.

I understand they're governed by the State.

We can't control that.

But I would like to think that common um the some common sense can prevail here.

Sure.

I think part of it too, uh to the chair is to make sure that you know the not only us but others are utilizing technology to to their advantage.

There are different uh technologies out there can help um to eliminate, not eliminate, uh to reduce the number of pursuits that occur throughout the area here.

Uh again, helicopters we have.

Not all uh um cities have the uh budget for helicopters, we have that.

We have the drones now that we can utilize to assist us in other technologies.

Right.

So I think that's part of it when you're have having conversations.

And then having a uh a very uh uh thorough um policy to govern uh when officers can engage in pursuits again, cause like it stated before, they are inherently dangerous, and we certainly don't want to injure anyone general public as well as our officers.

Okay.

So that takes me to my next subject, and that is uh notification of council members of violent crimes, homicides, other um deplorable acts that have taken place in the city.

Councilman Casey had to go to another meeting indicated he's had two homicides in his community within the last month.

Um and there's been a lack of follow-up with him as it pertains to keeping him apprised of the investigation.

Um I myself had a um homicide uh two couple weeks ago at um uh convenient type store.

Um and again, I I've received no follow-up on that.

Um we all know this horrific report that was made um on Facebook and on social media about a young lady, uh a young girl who was sexually assaulted and there was no notification to the council person, uh that was not in my ward, it was a neighboring ward.

There was no notification to the council person at the time.

No council, no uh notification of the council president nor myself as chairman of the of the safety committee here.

Um no notification to the council person where the young lady where the mother and the young lady lived.

Uh we all learned about it.

I learned about it from a local pastor who called me to tell me about it.

Director, um you and I have always had a good work in relationship.

But we've got there's something broken here.

There's gotta be some notification, the members of council, and there's not only that, but there's got council members have to be updated on some of these violent crimes that have taken place as we're going to neighborhood meetings and people are saying, what's going on?

And I can't tell them anything.

I cannot tell them anything.

And I'm upset about that.

And I'm and my colleagues, all they're asking for, we know we can't administer.

We we're prohibited.

I want to say that again to the viewing public.

Council is prohibited from administering.

But we need to be updated because we're the ones on the firing line.

We're the ones that are getting these requests, and we're hearing the plea from our neighbors and our concerned constituents, and yet we have no information or a lack of information to give them.

So I don't know how you can fit.

I don't expect you to be on the phone, but there's got to be something that's got to be fixed.

And I'll and anyone want to chime in on that.

Be my guest, Councilman Slight.

I want to be very clear that I'm not addressing this to the two of you.

Uh, but I I will say that this administration's claim of transparency is laughable.

It's propaganda.

Council does not receive information, the media do not receive information, and uh Councilman Palencick is correct that there's a reasonable expectation in our communities that council members members will have information, base level information about what's happening.

So there I there the open, there is an open data portal, quite frankly, it's it's it's useful to an extent, but it's also a bit overwhelming.

So if there's a way that we can repatch this, I know that there are limitations.

I'm not I'm not disputing that there are limitations to what we can know, but it is not an acceptable answer to the people we serve when we get asked a question and and we look like a bunch of deer and headlights.

That's that's not that's not helpful for anybody.

Uh so but I again this is not directed to you all.

This is a problem that is systemic across the entire organization.

It's I think felt most prolifically when it comes to public safety just because of the emotional and physical uh you know elements uh to that that that caused people to react more to say a criminal incident versus a routine public records request.

Yes.

For the chairs director.

Through the chair, council uh council members.

Uh this administration prize itself on give information.

That's why the uh uh we have the the portals now that are available that folks can actually go on a portable, the portal and actually get information themselves as far as public safety and some of the the things that happened, some of the uh crimes are very horrific.

Uh we have Marcy's law in place, restrict the information that we can give out relative to to victims and so forth.

Um so that restrict us in what we can uh give out to anyone, including uh council members.

We have obviously uh the PIOs and and uh the PIO and the division of police that um uh part of their responsibility.

Well, it's mine is to make sure that we keep uh uh the council members uh informed of the incidents that's occurring in their respective uh areas.

Um and part of that too is my commitment is to make sure that we have follow-up to those particular incidents.

Um there are a lot of incidents that occur within the City of Cleveland.

Uh some uh garner a lot of uh attention and and and some don't.

Um and we do not make notification of every single incident that occur in in the City of Cleveland in the respective wards, because we would be on the phone with you uh all the time because of all the incidents that occur.

But the major incidents, as you are aware, we make our very best effort to notify uh the council members, uh the council chair as well as the council president on the uh incidents as well as to uh follow up on those particular incidents.

So we're doing our very best.

Uh the division of police I know are doing their very best to keep you apprised, updated, and if we're if uh uh we need to improve on that, we will uh make every effort to improve on that.

Well, Director, I I just want to say this.

I don't expect you or your your management team to to apprise us of every reported criminal act.

But again, I want to go back.

Homicides, rapes, brutal assaults, um shootings, the council person has to be made aware.

I'm just I'm just telling you that I mean that's that's m always been, I've always had that protocol in in my working relationship with the division of police over the years.

And we got to continue that because if not, it causes friction.

It causes um an adversarial relationship, and none of us want that here.

And you know, for all of us to find out about this young lady, this girl, which I'm just I'm appalled, I'm appalled by what I read that was put on Facebook, but none of us were notified of it.

And I'm gonna leave it at that because I know you're there's an ongoing investigation.

Okay.

Is there any other comment along those same lines?

Councilman Starr.

No, um just for full transparency, um, regarding the pursuits and the chases that's going on, um, I think we do have um a responsibility as a city of Cleveland.

Rather, people have jurisdiction, whether it's the county or anything else, if they're traveling um within the City of Cleveland, why aren't they not following the same laws that we have for our own law enforcement?

What type of collaboration do we have in um in place to see that?

Because we do need the help of the Sheriff's Department to help us with patrolling because the city of Cleveland is a part of Cuyoga County.

But within the same instance, the policies that we have as far as pursuit should still apply.

Um just because you are in a different part of a city, you should obey by the same rules as this.

I'm sure if our officers is traveling, um, say for instance they got to go to Garfield for a new jail, they will still have to apply by those rules or the Garfield or as as well as ours.

Can you someone correct me through that just to understand what's the difference and what makes everything so difficult?

Through the Chair to the Council member uh start.

I'm going to start and then I'll turn it over to uh assistant director of um Shachner, who will give more of the uh legal um requirements of uh the different uh sub-uh divisions.

Um we uh are governed, we when I say we, I mean the division of police are governed by our rules and our policies and our procedures.

Uh we are not governed by to your example if we're traveling to Garfield Heights.

We're not governed by their rules and our policies, just ours, our our rules and our our regulations.

Um same thing with Garfield, they're governed by their policies.

Um as far as the pursuits are concerned, again, it's the same thing.

They have their policies, they have their rules that they're governed to that they have to uh abide by.

We cannot restrict um them in coming into our city if they are involved in a hot pursuit uh or pursuit of uh uh a felony uh vehicle or even them coming into our jurisdiction, just like they cannot restrict us going into their respective jurisdiction as well.

But I I want uh uh A.D.

Um to give you more of the the uh legal reasons.

But just on that point.

Okay, they are governed by state law as we are governed by state law.

But don't they have to notify us?

They're coming into our municipality.

Through the chair, yes.

Uh we would uh uh yes, that's part of uh um the I don't know if it's necessary requirement, but it would be uh based on their policies to make sure they are notifying us so we know or the respect respective jurisdiction know what is going on or what's coming towards them so can they can be prepared to potentially assist them in whatever they have going on.

Because I am told in this this most recent one that we we didn't know about until we have came to the accident scene.

Through the Chair, that's correct.

See, that's that's unacceptable.

To the chair, council people.

So there's not necessarily a legal requirement that you notify the jurisdiction that you're entering into.

Okay.

Um like for instance, uh, we have a protocol when we're providing mutual aid or we're entering another jurisdiction of what we have to do when we're entering um other uh divisions of police likely also have a certain protocol, but again, that's not something that's criminal in nature or civil in nature that we can enforce.

That's uh more of administrative of would be subject to discipline if they did not um follow their own policies in entering our um city.

Um in addition the power of any municipal, whether we're chart municipality or political subdivision, whether they're chartered or not, is that you can you have control over your own municipality, your own area.

You cannot um put restrictions on other political subdivisions, even when they're entering our for example, there was a court case I don't remember when years ago when our um property building and housing was putting certain permitting requirements and fees on CMHA, and it was found we couldn't do that because they're their own political subdivision, all right, even though they are located within our city and have houses within our city and our buildings and within our city that there's certain things we cannot enforce upon them.

Now Ohio revised code requires every police department or law enforcement agency um to have a pursuit policy, all right.

Um now they're supposed to follow the certain guidelines within the state um specifically they call out um an Ohio Collaborative Community Police Advisory Board or Service or similar law enforcement accrediting agency.

Um so each department has to create their own.

Now, what under state law they could actually chase for um into other jurisdictions, there's a state law higher by the code that calls authority to arrest without a warrant or pursuit outside of jurisdiction.

Now if a law enforcement agency uh needs wants to pursue into another territory, there's three requirements.

One, the pursuit has to take place with unreasonable delay after an offense is committed.

Um, it the pursuit has to be initiated within their political subdivision.

And three, the offense has to be either a felony, a misdemeanor of their first or second degree, or is a traffic offense where points are chargeable, which there's a whole list of traffic offenses where you could get points.

And the thing is is that we under the Ohio Constitution, Article 18, Section 3 about municipal powers of local government, we could exercise all powers of local self-government within our limits, right?

And as long as they're not in conf conflict with general laws, which is mostly has to do with um what the state puts down.

But even let's say even if it was permissible to require other jurisdictions to pursue our policy.

I don't uh there would be no real way to enforce that.

Are we supposed to start pulling over umclid police vehicles?

Are we going to put spike strips down if they're going over certain speed or they're chasing because we don't know what they're chasing for at the time there and I think the law the law recognizes that we have so many jurisdictions that you're going to have to pa may have to pass through certain a number of jurisdictions when you're in pursuit.

And our venue statutes recognize that too, where you could try the case within any um county of where the pursuit or where the crime is taking place if you're traveling by vehicle, especially in those fleeing eludes or failure to comply.

So it's just the only way you can.

So for example, there cannot be a county case policy that everybody has to adhere to.

Um any polic pursuit policy has to be voluntarily agreed to.

And again, the only cure for any violation of that policy is going to be discipline within that department.

And one important thing to note is about policies and following policies.

The policy is what protects is one of the defenses against claims uh against qualified immunity.

If if let's say someone sues a police department for pursuing in a death occurs.

If let's say someone sues a police department for pursuing a death occurs, if they were within policy, that is a defense to them acting negligently inside offense.

So to the viewing public, and I'm going to call Councilman Starbert.

So to the viewing public, what you're telling us is that whether any of the suburbs that surround us.

In any county that surrounds us, as if they are pursuing someone, once they cross the border of the city of Cleveland, they are governed by their pursuit policy and not ours.

Correct.

Okay.

That's correct.

And also state law.

State law applies to why they're pursuing them and so forth.

And I want to make sure we're we're clear here.

We want to make sure that when folks are being chased into our jurisdiction, that they're adhering to their policies and certainly don't want any uh any crashes or any innocent folks or police officers getting hurt in that process.

So we want to make sure that these folks have common sense pursuit policies that's being adhered to.

And I think it's important that we sit down with the uh county chiefs and so forth and come up with recommendations.

And as uh uh AD uh Shaq just said they they don't have to, it's not mandatory that they follow it, but if we're in agreement on some recommendations, I think that will help us and hopefully uh I hope that's the case.

Councilman Stark.

Yes, um, thank you for that clear clarification, but something just seemed disconnected.

So the actual pursuit policies are written and implemented, they are written by who?

Who comes up with the different pursuit policies for each municipality or each city?

Through the chair to the councilman, that's by the respective uh departments and their legal folks or their policy writers in their respective uh jurisdiction.

Okay, so therefore the their administrations, their their municipalities come up with their different pursuit policies.

Um just for my record, I want to make sure I know offhand.

I think chair or anyone, do we know how many cities it make up Cuyahoga County?

Through the chair, I want to say 50 somewhere.

57, 58, I believe.

Somewhere around.

58.

So we have around 58 cities to make up Cuyahoga County.

Um I believe that I'm going to put in writing to the chair as well as to you all, um, and the other 58 or the other 57 cities that's viewing, I think it's time for us to have a real sit-down.

And what I mean by that is we all need to get get get in line of something.

This is not a small big city, this is a Cuyahoga county initiative, and I believe us elected officials have to lead this charge to make sure we get some things in place.

I do not believe any municipality, any elected official um want to deal with pursuits where someone is ending up death has occurred, or anything like that.

But in order for us to figure this thing out, we have to work together.

So each municipality, I'm assuming that they or each city has their uh public safety committees, they also have their elected officials.

I believe this is something that we need to pull together and lead the charge and say, hey, let's sit down and let's look at policy together to make sure we are in alignment, but also showing how do we make this courtesy calls, get on the same station, um, react and let Cleveland police know when they have something going on and they're patrolling on what that actually looked like, so therefore we can all be in one alignment to be able to handle what things go on.

Because one of the things that happened, it may start very well in Cleveland, but that does not mean that pursuit actually ends somewhere in Cleveland.

It may end into another city where we should have all hands on deck to be able to say, hey, this is what's going on.

Or we should be able to make a judgment call to say, hey, it was just a taillight.

You know, get the get the license plate of individual, pull it up and say, you know what, we're gonna go and send somebody to that house in the wee hours of the night where we believe that car is listed at for us to be able to do it in a safe manner.

Sometimes it's not the pursuit that needs to happen.

Sometimes we need to just come back and be more um thoughtful on how to be able to get the same results.

So I definitely am going to put together a letter um chairman to you, um, and then reach out to some of the different other contacts of people we do know that um has a safety committee, has things in place and starting with Cuyahoga County Council.

I think we all need to come to the table together and say, hey, let's look at policies and pursuit that we have at Cleveland.

Let's look at what Cyhoba Sheriff Department have, and then look at some of our surrounding suburbs because you will see some similarities, but then you can see some different changes that they have and say, hey, how do we revisit to be all in one align of one accord to make sure that no matter what um happens, either a police officer, sheriff, or anyone uh returns home safely as well as the pedestrians and the citizens in each city, no matter how much we have to deal with this um issues involved in pursuits.

Good.

And make sure the council president is in receipt of that as well.

Definitely.

Okay.

Are there any just on this specific c Charlie?

Yeah, I I do have a couple of questions about pursuit, but just because I'm on a mild soapbox.

Back on the transparency, I I want to be very clear.

My position is that the administration is selectively transparent and makes data readily available when they decide that it can be readily available.

The problem is, just if you look at the charter, we the people, the representatives of the people are represented by the same law department that gets to determine what information is and isn't available for public consumption.

So when the law director determines that the administration does not want to make information available, the only recourse the people have, being us or anyone, is is to go to court, because we don't have our own attorney to go and lobby on our behalf and say, for example, that I believe that the law department is over applying Marcy's law and that there are opportunities where information can be shared without revealing the names of victims.

In fact, historically there were times when the brevity reports would come through and instead of saying Charles Slife, it would say white mail and an address where it occurred.

So if if I were assaulted at the West Side Market, it could say, you know, 2500 Lorraine Avenue and white mail.

That does not give any victim information.

So I still think that there is a path through this.

The problem is an over-application of the Marcy's law, for example, a unwillingness to find paths towards transparency and a lack of options for this body and others to forcefully cause a counter narrative to be considered in that decision-making process.

That is not for the two people here to uh respond to.

Um as it relates to the pursuits, humor me for a second.

Could we pull over a Parma police car if the driver were not wearing a seatbelt?

Who could answer that?

I guess the source of the question is trying to understand the difference between a policy and a law.

And uh Parma, and just picking on Parma, because I just said Parma, Parma has a pollute policy, we have a pursuit policy.

I'm trying to understand what pursuit laws are, and if that is a is if that is state law, if we could be provided with that, because if the answer is that everybody follows their policies, I'm wondering what the difference between a policy and a law is.

Could a police officer from another jurisdiction be pulled over for violating a law in Cleveland, for example, not wearing a seatbelt?

Through the chair you're talking about this is outside the pursuit, or you're just talking about in general.

In in general?

Sure.

Anyone can uh anyone, police officer otherwise, they're they're citizens of the United States, and if they're in violation of a traffic law and law, they can be stopped and uh cited accordingly.

Uh also officers have discretion here in the City of Cleveland, so they can be cited or not.

This just depends on the officer.

So, yes, if they're in violation of a city ordinance or a law that can be stopped and and uh the requisite enforcement action can be taken.

Thank you.

Okay.

So what I would, and this is too big to answer now, but I would be curious to how state law would speak towards pursuits and if there's if if it do is is there such thing as a pursuit law, or is our pursuits dictated by ORC?

I don't know the answer to that.

I'm not an attorney.

I play one on TV.

I uh I understand it's a the way I've been ex way it's been explained to me that each city um does not legislate their pursuit policy, it's a policy, an administrative policy.

Am I correct?

That's the chair.

That's correct.

That's administrative policy.

Right.

And also uh through the pursuits, uh pursuits and the the state law gives us gives off, I keep saying that, so it's very hard to get out of that.

Uh the state law gives uh law enforcement officers as long as they are acting within the reason, the ability to, for example, go through a red light and there is an emergency response, um and they have to use due cautions to go through lights or to speed, um they have the ability to do that again with uh due caution.

Okay.

So also if there is a crash and uh associated with a pursuit here in the city of Cleveland, uh we have our uh accident investigation unit to respond, conduct their investigation, take all that information and present it to the uh prosecutor's office who will decide whether or not there is any criminality involved and whoever may be involved in that pursuit.

So on this most recent one, I will officially request a report from the accident investigation unit as to what's their conclusion.

Because I have not received anything.

I can follow that one.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

I would be curious, understanding that other jurisdictions are held to their policy.

There are police departments operating in the city that are non-governmental, like UCI, Cleveland Clinic.

I'm curious if they are adherent to our policy through our MOU.

Yes.

And then I'm also curious.

I'm curious if you could it kind of expand on conversations with the county, because I understand that they have begun their own kind of pursuit policy that in in absence of our ability to compel it, how are things happening uh in a real through relationships?

Uh through the chair, councilman's life, yes, the county um they are uh revising their policy, their pursuit policy, so they are doing it.

And what was the first but the second?

MOU, and actually, yes.

And yeah, we do have uh municipal well, we do have uh agencies operating within uh jurisdictions of the City of Cleveland and they adhere to our policies.

That's that they have MOUs with us, and uh if they're not complying with uh um the MOU, then we have the ability to uh r restrict their uh police authorities.

Good.

Okay.

Chair, Chair to the director, due to the pursuit, when they um just explain to uh to the uh uh audience um how and when of the question of a pursuit, just say the um police officer get a call, and or is it in the database saying that a car was reported stolen?

Start from there so the uh uh so the audience can understand why the police officers are pursuing a stolen car when I know this is a cash 22 per se, it's a stolen car, and why per se the pursuit have to be so aggressive to chase a stolen car when a life or lives could be affected by the pursuit of a stolen car?

Could you kind of elaborate on um since it's a stolen car and someone called it in and then the police get the data?

Why do they have to pursue a stolen car when they know not knowing you know the outcome, you know, could cause uh fatalities.

And just on this case out of Euclid, from the police report that I read, they've got a they got a call of shots fired, that's what prompted them to go up to that location.

Okay, but however, when there's no shots fired and they have it in the database that someone called in and say my car was stolen, and they get that particular license place, the model and the make of the car, and when they see the car out there um in the um, you know, drive it around uh in the vicinity or whatever, the first thing they do is probably call it back in and say, you know, we've seen the stolen car, you know, should we pursue it?

Because it's a stolen car, it's kids in the car.

So due to the pursuit, is there a law say that they have to pursue a stolen car?

Right.

Because now these uh uh uh incidents are being caused in fatalities.

So if it's a stolen car, why do the pursuit have to be so aggressive?

Director.

Through the chair, Councilwoman Gray.

Um I want to make sure we're clear that uh these uh pursuits that the current that recently happened was not involving the City of Cleveland Division of Police members.

So I want to make sure that we're that we're gonna have hypothetical question.

Yeah, just want to make sure we're clear with that.

And our policy here in the City of Cleveland, our vehicle pursuit policy, which is about 17 pages, is very restrictive in uh what we can, I say we the division of police members can engage in.

Um generally uh stolen uh car without anything else, just a straight stolen car uh this the City of Cleveland Division of Police will not pursue a stolen car.

Okay.

Okay, but that's could you repeat that?

Because I'm kind of kind of throwing me off on that.

So you don't have to pursue a stolen car per se.

If it is a straight uh grand theft motor vehicle where it's not taken by gunpoint, which is an aggravated robbery or carjacking, um, that's a violent felony, um, then the officers can't pursue that, but there are other requirements.

Yeah.

Um, then the officers can't pursue that, but there are other requirements.

But if it's a straight grand theft motor vehicle or stolen car, our officers will not pursue that particular vehicle.

Um again, the officers will make the attempt, because it's part of our responsibilities and duties to stop that particular car.

But if that particular car takes off will fail to yield to the signal of an officer, there are lights, there's sirens.

Um again, if it's nothing else but a straight grand theft motor vehicle, our policies doing allow us to pursue that vehicle.

Oh, I'm glad to uh know that, and I think that's because it's so much uh because there have been so many fatalities per se, you know, doing pursuit.

Our uh audience, our residents and myself uh need to understand the different types of pursuits of these cars that's been causing uh fatalities and also being wrecked.

So thank you for that.

Thank you.

I also want to just add something because anyone else did this.

I want to just echo what you said about um the incident of the young lady of the young child who had um who just uh was um was assaulted assaulted.

I want to just add that I want to echo that because that if this is the same particular incident, I just got the call last night from President Griffin.

President Council Griffin, he got the call from someone else, and I just happened to be out in the neighborhood dealing with other residents, and when he called me, he found out how close I was and am to that particular family, and he said the same thing as our chair that we're not getting the information like we should.

And since he's the president counsel, I am the counsel of that ward, and I'm really close to the family.

Matter of fact, I grew up with a school with the young lady's mother, so I'm over there not constantly, but I know them as a not only as a friend, but as family of the friends of the family, and that was a shocker to me not even knowing this.

And I normally, I'm be honest with your director, uh chair to director.

Uh you normally call or someone in your office would have called me and alert me to things of that nature uh prior to you guys uh coming and taking care of the incident.

So when President Counsel gave me a call last night, I kind of was shocked, but I did kind of understood when I went to the house, uh, the grandmother did explain why the incident was kind of on a private um level, because it happened prior to us even knowing that it even happened.

But I do agree with um my colleagues that we need to be better notified of these type of incidents so we can be there to uh to consult the family, and the family wouldn't think that the council uh are not uh uh caring about any incidents that's happening, you know, in the um in our wards.

So I just want to say that.

Thank you, counseling.

So we are finished with this.

We just have a just a brief comment now on the status of the Cleveland police headquarters.

Mark, identify yourself at the table.

There you go.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um good afternoon.

Um I'm Mark Doolak.

I am the manager of architecture and site development for Capital Projects.

So briefly tell us where you are where are we with the police headquarters?

Police headquarters.

Um it uh we're continuing to make progress on schedule.

Um as everyone's aware, there are three components to the building.

There's the art craft building, there's a category for edition, which will contain the real-time crime center, the fusion center, and the garage for the command bus and communications trailer.

Um the parking garage.

Uh the parking garage is substantially complete for the garage itself.

Um the elevators will be installed along with all the other elevators in both the Cat 4 edition and the main building.

Okay.

The, as you've probably seen going by on superior on the freeway.

The um exterior of the building, the restoration has been substantially completed.

There is a new roof on the building.

The bulk of the work going on right now is the framing of the new interior walls within the art craft building and the installation of all the rough mechanicals, all the rough electricals and all of the rough plumbing.

Um as progress goes, um, the uh curbs and asphalt base coat that work on the site, especially for the new visitor parking lot is going to begin in uh October 13th.

Um hats off to CPP for completing the permanent power connection as expected by October 15th.

This is really important because having that permanent power allows us to really install and test things like the elevators and mechanical system is really important.

They're also working um with our uh energy partner uh Corex, formerly known as uh Cleveland Thermal, to get the uh steam connection to the building so that all the construction that goes on over the winter will be able to utilize that for temporary heat instead of having to use gas heaters.

So it's okay.

A great thing.

Everybody's been working very hard to make this happen.

Okay.

For the art craft building, the scheduled substantial completion is mid-July.

And the Cat 4 building, substantial completion is June 19th.

Um that means the building will be able to be occupied.

We are looking to uh complete the move in of uh police operations into the headquarters, certainly uh before the end of the month of October in 2026.

Well, that's good news because we do not want to continue to pay rent at the Justice Center.

Um we pay too much rent over there over the years.

Uh it's like Chaching, like a cash cow for the our friends over at the county.

And uh we want to get our men and women in blue and our support personnel into the new police headquarters as soon as possible.

So keep us apprised of the of the work.

I plan to go over sometime shortly for a tour.

Anyone else who would like to go with me, let me know.

And um that's it then.

Any other questions on police headquarters update?

Without further ado, I would appreciate my colleagues who are here, appreciate that the men uh men and women of the administration were here, director, the committee stands adjourned.

Thank you.