OPENPUBLICA · PUBLIC MEETING RECORD
Record of Proceedings

Cleveland Finance, Diversity, and Inclusion Committee Meeting - November 17, 2025

City Council MeetingsMonday, November 17, 2025
BodyCleveland, Ohio
SessionCity Council Meetings
DateMonday, November 17, 2025
StatusFILED
Video Record

STREAMING COPY IN PREPARATION — RECORDING AVAILABLE FROM THE ORIGINAL SOURCE

Transcript — Verbatim
4:07

Good afternoon, everyone.

4:07

Today's November seventeenth, twenty twenty five.

4:10

Finance diversity and inclusion committees being called to order.

4:13

Madam Folk, please call the role.

4:27

We're gonna start with our guests, which is ordinance number thirteen twenty-two dash twenty twenty-five.

4:33

This is Public Health, Director of Public Health.

4:49

Any agreements needed to implement such programming for a period of two years.

5:00

This piece of legislation is more supportive program.

5:09

First year Cleveland was established in 2016 as a result of a resolution from Help to establish an organization to coordinate the work that was going on in the community relative to reducing infant mortality.

5:25

Push the button, thank you.

5:26

Just pull up closer.

5:27

All right.

5:28

As infant mortality is still an issue in our community.

5:32

I have brought with me Angela White.

5:34

She is the director of first year Cleveland to provide an overview and update of the program.

5:41

Thank you.

5:42

Um Vice Chair Santana.

5:44

Um, as Francis mentioned, I'm Angela Newman White Executive Director of First Year Cleveland.

5:48

Um, you know, the organization, as she mentioned, was formed in 2015 in response to the high infant mortality rate.

5:54

I have the privilege of participating on the original think tank to create first year Cleveland when I was in my former role at the health department.

6:02

The organization's primary primary purpose is to do policy advocacy and fundraising.

6:07

So, how do we make the jobs of our community-based organizations and health care providers easier?

6:12

And so we do that by kind of rebranded us as a connector, protector, and activator.

6:17

So we build capacity for local organizations to meet the needs of their families by providing training, capacity building, um, and direct funding.

6:26

Uh between the 2022 and 24, we invested over seven million dollars into local organizations uh providing services to pregnant and parenting women.

6:36

Um, that is you know comprised of different funding sources that we've raised through the Ohio Department of Medicaid through philanthropy, and also with the support of the city and county um budgets.

6:47

The flexibility of the city and county funding is vital for us because it allows us to be responsive.

6:53

Um, most funding coming from the federal and state government is very prescriptive with high fidelity models and not really responsive to what actually each unique community needs.

7:02

And so by us being able to provide community investment dollars as well as small mini grants, we can fill the gaps and provide the overall comprehensive services that our families need.

7:14

Um as we're housed at Case Western Reserve, we also um participate in applied and systems level research.

7:22

So, how are we providing an immediate benefit that's going to yield um the greatest or the best outcome for communities?

7:28

Doing things like newborn screenings, looking at systems um changes, but then also addressing housing through our healthy beginnings at home project with the intent to um justify or solidify pregnancy as a uh eligibility criteria to prioritize subsidies for housing.

7:45

And the last piece, which I'm most excited about, is around advocacy.

7:48

So we work with directly with um residents around civic engagement.

7:52

So, how do you not only advocate for yourself during your medical appointments but also for your community and your community's needs?

7:59

Um we lead the statewide infant vitality advocacy day effort.

8:03

Uh, this year was our third, and we had you know over 75 people from across the state there, and the governor DeWine did come and have conversations with us, but it's an opportunity to highlight key legislators and legislation that prioritizes families and thank those folks and also educate those um you know that need to kind of make sure that we're prioritizing the needs of families when we are putting forth legislation, not only with how it reads, but how do we actually operationalize it?

8:30

So if you have I'll stop there if you have any questions.

8:34

Yeah, chief, the 500,000 is that ARPA dollars?

8:38

No, that's that's from general funds, general fund dollars.

8:43

Okay, is Connell here?

8:45

And it's over a two-year period, it's 250 over two year period.

8:49

And the money would go towards go to first year Cleveland for the purpose of everything that she's done, like okay, programming.

8:57

Um, I do have a question.

8:58

I'm right, she's saying I do um pull it close.

9:03

We've talked about, I know it says here on the legislation that Cleveland are high and often impact high school college completions, family stability, but we're talking about pregnancy rates, um, are high in our area, and it's like I always constantly hear in articles that it's the other way around, like people are not having kids.

9:20

I'm just curious to know like how are the numbers compared to like years ago where Chief, we were talking about this, right?

9:27

We had high mortality rates about a couple three years ago.

9:30

How are they now today?

9:33

Uh preliminarily, we have 24 data.

9:37

So the infant mortality rate is still relatively high.

9:40

It has it went down a little bit in 2021, then it rose back up and now it's rising again.

9:47

So, just in terms of hard numbers, when we talk about infant mortality rate, we're talking about the number of deaths per 100,000 births.

10:00

So right now, 2024 preliminary data, the overall infant mortality rate is 13.6.

10:05

The African American infant mortality rate is 19.7, and the Hispanic Latino infant mortality rate, which was very low several years ago, is creeping back up is 9.1.

10:19

And the white infant mortality rate is 5.8.

10:23

The goal, which is our standard based on healthy people, 2030 is 5.0.

10:29

So we're significantly over what the infant mortality rate, what would be called a reasonable infant mortality rate.

10:37

Now, in terms of births overall, in 2024, there were a little over 3,800 births in the city of Cleveland and over 12,000 births in the county.

10:47

So that's where we are in terms of numbers.

10:51

Thank you for that.

10:54

Thank you.

10:54

Thank you very much.

10:58

This is an area that has always concerned me, the the high numbers of infant mortality.

11:04

So what I'm trying to understand is the outreach.

11:09

What is the outreach across the city?

11:12

That's what I'm trying to get a better understanding.

11:14

You know, we have rec centers, we have obviously the health centers, but what is the actual outreach?

11:20

How do we touch people?

11:22

And how are we touching families and uh moms in a neighborhood?

11:27

Angela's chomping on the bid to answer that question.

11:30

So First Year Cleveland has developed a network of providers, community-based organizations and faith-based organizations throughout the city and the county.

11:40

So we yield, uh, you know, we host community partner gatherings, which um we have one this Thursday.

11:45

We're around 80 people on average.

11:47

This Thursdays, we have 110 registered to where there's folks that are in this space that we keep abreast of all of the services that are being provided and provide opportunities for connections to these services.

11:59

We've also this year launched a web-based soon to be a um app based, it's called first year connects.

12:07

So this is a resource app that we that's generated by community faith-based and health care organizations where not only can our providers search for valuable services that folks may need, but it also will shifts the opportunity for the actual family to identify services based off of their location.

12:26

So we do a great job of coordinating all of the direct service providers, like we support birthing beautiful communities, village of healing, moms first, um, and several other of the direct um prenatal care type of providers, but also the larger network with housing employment um transportation.

12:45

So your gathering, madam chairperson, this gathering you just alluded to.

12:49

Where's that going to be taking place at?

12:50

So we're hosting them at Tri-C.

12:52

Okay.

12:52

And I did bring some information if you all would like.

12:55

But okay, but Tri-C, but is there like I have the um the resource center on South Waterloo Road, the Greater Cleveland Food Bank Resource Center, which I worked very hard to get.

13:06

Um we all have the we have rec centers.

13:08

What do we do to get out into the quote unquote the neighborhoods?

13:12

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

13:13

How do we do that?

13:14

So we work with our neighborhood centers like friendly and Lexington, you know, all of the neighborhood-based centers we have partnerships with that actively engage with us.

13:23

But we also have launched with the support.

13:26

Um, the city of Cleveland, it's called one community.

13:29

So one community is a resident-led collective impact framework where we're in specific zip codes where families and business owners and even anyone that lives, works, plays, or praise in that specific zip code is invited to receive and connect.

13:45

Okay.

13:46

Well, that I won't belabor the point, so I'm sure my colleagues, but if you could provide to us uh where you're have that connectivity in the neighborhoods, because again, I'd like to see something at the resource center.

13:57

Um I'm not aware of anything that's ever happened at the Collinwood Rec Center along these lines, uh, any type of community gathering.

14:03

But I'm I'm just trying to figure out how do we bring more of these um this contact?

14:07

How do we touch people out in the neighborhoods?

14:10

Because again, um, you know, I I keep asking myself, why is infant mortality?

14:14

Is it lifestyle?

14:15

Is it eating habits?

14:16

Is it is it in poverty?

14:18

What is it that are that these numbers are so high in the city of Cleveland versus other municipalities?

14:23

It's all of those things.

14:26

It's behavioral health, it's housing, it's poverty.

14:30

Okay, it's getting into care in a timely way, it's jobs, all of these things.

14:38

It's what actually happens when a woman gets care when she goes to the hospital, and so that was the coordination that we needed a first year Cleveland for because there's so many tentacles that have can have a negative impact on outcome, birth outcomes.

14:56

Okay, thank you, madam chairperson.

14:58

I'll look forward to getting that information from you.

15:00

Thank you.

15:00

And I do have one last question.

15:01

So this 500,000, I see you guys add the umbrella to birthing beautiful.

15:07

Do you guys help resources or financial allocation allocation, or is it more deployment of like helping?

15:14

Um we do both.

15:16

So we actually do provide direct funding to organizations in the city of Cleveland.

15:21

Um they apply to us through the forms of mini grants of up to $5,000 in the last two years.

15:26

We've distributed over 40 mini grants of $5,000, but then also based off of what the community partners are have identified as needs, specifically there was housing allocations, so for emergency rental assistance, we've provided funding to organizations to support their um constituents, and then we've also done some work around transportation.

15:46

Um on the technical assistance side, we provide funding and also administrative support.

15:51

So we've secured a consultant that's working with four local organizations, pregnant possibilities, birth and beautiful communities, village of healing that's actually helping them to optimize their Medicaid billing.

16:02

So as a free service, we're able to provide to multiple multiple organizations opportunities for infrastructure and sustainability.

16:08

Got it.

16:09

Okay.

16:09

Well, thank you for all your work.

16:11

Um other questions.

16:13

Oh, okay.

16:14

Sorry, Councilman Bishop.

16:15

Uh thank you, Madam Chairwoman.

16:17

Um, Madam Chairwoman, just um, I just want to do have if information on births.

16:22

You mentioned there was 3800 births in the city of Cleveland.

16:25

Um is that trend going downward, or is that is that holding steady?

16:30

Are we uh as our birth weight is kind of lagging?

16:33

Can you speak a little bit more about that?

16:34

Sure.

16:35

The birth rate um to the councilman through the chair.

16:41

The the birth rates are going down.

16:43

There are fewer babies being born.

16:46

And so when you see the numbers that we have in terms of infant mortality, it begs the need for continuing coordination of this care to just try to chip away at that number.

17:03

You know, we know that with targeted work in communities.

17:06

I know before Angela was with first year Cleveland, we did some some work in uh the Lee Harvard community, which at that time in 2017 had the highest infant mortality rate in the city, and just targeted work in the community.

17:21

We're able to raise awareness, bring engage churches in the work and bring that rate down to to zero.

17:31

And so that's the kind of targeted work that needs to happen in every it would be difficult to get it done in all 15 wards at all the same time because we don't have the financing for that, but that kind of targeted work is what is needed, and that's what first year Cleveland begins to coordinate on a downstream level and on an upstream level with the advocacy work that they do.

17:57

But the birth rate is definitely going down.

18:00

Okay, so through the chair, can um can we get some data uh as far as our birth rates by work and our our infant mortality by ward so we can kind of understand that a little bit like you mentioned the word uh one birth rate uh the infant mortality rate has gone down quite a bit.

18:16

So please can you give us that information that's and we did send a presentation over that has a map in there that will show you by community the the infant mortality rates and so if you don't have that we will send it back, but we did send it over Friday.

18:34

All right, thank you.

18:34

Thank you.

18:35

Thank you for that.

18:36

Um here are no other questions.

18:38

Ordinance number 1322 death 2025 has been approved.

18:42

Please sign on.

18:44

Thank you, Chief.

18:45

Thank you.

18:45

Thank you.

18:47

Oh, you know what I was gonna ask for um if you have a newsletter for I mean, like um hard copy, like maybe um electronic copy of any information we can put it on a newsletter.

19:01

Thank you.

19:04

Thank you, thank you, Chief.

19:06

Do something, Angela.

19:09

Do something out there of the resources okay.

19:16

Next up we have ordinance number 1431-2025 by councilmember Griffin, emergency ordinance authorizing the clerk of council to enter into agreement with Western Reserve Land Conservancy doing business as Thriving Communities Institute to provide professional service regarding signature green space creation planning and policy, vacant land um restoration and reforest, our city's program.

19:39

Hi, councilman.

19:42

How are you?

19:43

I'm doing well, thank you for having me, madam chairwoman.

19:45

Okay, do you want to start?

19:47

Sure.

19:47

Um, first of all, uh, on behalf of the Western Reserve Land Conservancy, um, really grateful for this um partnership that we have with Cleveland City Council.

19:56

Um, our organization over the years have worked with all each of you individually.

20:02

I'm gonna pass, I only have four, if it's okay, maybe you guys can look at it.

20:06

What I'm passing is our our scope of contract for 2026.

20:11

Just some interesting highlights, and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

20:15

Over the last five years, we have leveraged your investment in our organization by bringing online 30 million dollars plus worth of green space improvements on land that was formerly vacant.

20:30

It's a staggering number when you think about uh the that type of work, but all of this land was fallow land.

20:38

It wasn't producing anything positive for the citizens of Cleveland, and those uh that 30 million plus investment uh accounts for 2,500 more trees that we were able to get in the ground, signature parks and green spaces, um, some planning and policy work.

20:56

You know, we led the the Clevelot presentation that really helped um the city rethink on how they distribute uh land bank lots, um uh uh vacant land restoration and then the reforestation.

21:10

Just a couple of highlights.

21:12

I'm looking at all of you.

21:13

We've done work in all of your wards, the least amount in in Councilman Slice Ward, and hoping to change that uh in the coming year.

21:21

But you know, Councilman Bishop has been a strong supporter.

21:24

Uh, this past in 2025, Councilman Bishop, we have planted over 200 trees in your ward.

21:31

Um, we redid the whole uh um uh where fair um new points offices are what's that uh shopping plaza called, Councilman?

21:41

Through the chair to the country.

21:43

Uh that shopping plaza.

21:46

So we planted 83 just in that parking lot.

21:48

It was a sea of asphalt.

21:50

We greened it up, uh, did a real, you know, about Jack Rabbit Hill.

21:54

Um Councilman Palensec.

21:56

I probably, you know, I've been involved with a lot of development projects in my years when I was a councilman and after uh was able to complete probably the most complicated real estate transaction I've ever worked on, uh, the Euclid Beach Transformation Project and Councilman Pluncy's ward.

22:12

Um that was uh our organization leveraged an additional 17 million dollars of the 30 million into uh the North Collarwood neighborhood.

22:21

Um working with you, Councilman Santana on Store Avenue transformation work on some vacant land.

22:28

Uh Councilman Casey would love to do more work with you.

22:30

I know we've only gotten a few trees in the ground, but really want to help you out.

22:35

And um, I want to uh thank uh councilman Spencer for uh her work that she's doing to improve green spaces and reforestation.

22:44

Uh excited to work on the Hermit Park Trail and Hermit Park Project.

22:47

Um this year we came online, we brought uh the new Thurgood Marshall Green.

22:52

It's a new three million dollar park project that we um led for the City of Cleveland's directly north of the Thurgood Marshall Rec Center.

23:01

We cut the ribbon on October 3rd.

23:04

Um it's a magnificent high quality park.

23:07

Uh and so looking to do more of that.

23:10

Uh just know that we are available um to city, any member of city council.

23:16

I work through you know the the council leadership, but uh we I am always available if you're doing any park planning, green space planning, or just some master planning in your area.

23:27

Um available to help support you any way we can and uh here to answer any questions you might have managed to.

23:34

Thank you for that.

23:34

And I took a tour.

23:36

I think Western Reserve does an amazing job in renovating and restoring these vacant lots.

23:41

Um we have tons of them in the neighborhood.

23:44

And I it it's not all about like people ask about pocket park swings and you know, having things for kids, but it's an area where people could come, they could gather, they could sit down, they could read a book, and it's just it's clean, which is most important for this legislation.

23:57

Just to let um my colleagues know, this is a new initiative which will convert maybe 10 vacant lots in the store avenue, possibly Clark um Fulton area, so Store Avenue, stockyard neighborhood for those who are not aware of this area.

24:13

It's probably an area with high crime, vacant houses.

24:18

I have about over 300 um vacant parcels in the neighborhood.

24:23

So we thought let's partner with Western Reserve and start um renovating and cleaning it out as a beginning process to start planning and um developing this neighborhood.

24:32

So this is what this legislation is about.

24:35

I think it it's not more than 150,000 for that, right?

24:39

Okay.

24:40

It says not exceed 150,000.

24:42

Yeah, um, which opportunity for us to renew if we need additional work.

24:45

So I just asked my council colleagues if they could support.

24:49

Just one more comment before you open it up to questions.

24:52

Um, I do want to highlight your leadership too, because um you understand that you have to layer all these fundings on top of one another and what you're doing with the transformational arts fund, all the murals you're doing in that neighborhood.

25:05

Um the green team at MetroWest, you're doing uh remarkable work and and all of that matters to keeping people um uh feeling good about where they live.

25:15

So kudos to you, council.

25:16

Thank you for that.

25:17

And I would tell you, I've had so many meetings about stock here neighborhood, and developers are like, you sure you want to develop this area?

25:24

Like, you know what I mean?

25:24

There's basically no hope in this neighborhood.

25:27

So once we apply for the art transformation, that was like the beginning to kind of rebuild this hope and um some pride in the neighborhood.

25:35

And so the second layer is Western Reserve, activating these vacant lots, and the next thing will be um, you know, developing homes and and commercial corridors.

25:45

So thank you for your partnership.

25:47

Um and I'll open it up to council.

25:49

Thank you, thank you, madam chair, perhaps.

25:50

My colleagues to Matt always good to see you.

25:53

So this is directed in basically as you've indicated into one community.

25:57

The the uh funds come are coming from where?

26:00

So through the chair to councilman Palency, this piece of legislation is citywide.

26:05

Oh, it is um the comment that council uh the chairwoman was speaking about um was a different fund that was targeted, uh that was the neighborhood transformation fund.

26:15

And so that was a different contract.

26:17

Um this is a professional service contract of Cleveland City Council, which then allows me to deploy my team to assist members of council with planning strategy, green space improvement, reforestation, and all of that.

26:30

Good.

26:30

Okay, good.

26:31

That's that's great, because obviously I'm very fortunate I have a um for the most part a forested ward, except until you get into the very old sections where you have the the homes that are close together and virtually no tree lawn, so we're limited to what we can do in those areas.

26:48

But one of the things I wanted to ask through the chair to you, Matt, um, what can we do, or what would you suggest how we can partner better with CMSD?

26:57

They you look at their property, they they don't maintain their trees, um, and then you see dead trees on their properties.

27:04

So um what has been or what do you suggest that we can do to better partner with CMSD?

27:10

Uh great question and uh and a timely question given their recent announcement on um right size in their school system.

27:17

We um have been going back and forth our legal council and their legal council.

27:21

We have a framework of an MOU where the uh school district is going to allow us to go on all of the properties that they own.

27:28

Uh, we're gonna probably do five to six a year where we're gonna do an assessment of the inventory of trees.

27:34

We're going to do plantings on the tree.

27:36

All of this is going to be done at no cost to them.

27:40

Um, but as they rethink about what their campuses look like, I'll give you a perfect example.

27:45

In Councilman Stephanie House Jones's ward, um, they closed down the John W.

27:49

Raper School.

27:50

And in 2021, the city of Cleveland issued an RFP with CMSD.

27:55

We put out a bid for it, and that's where we built that new brand new park, state-of-the-art um uh facility that Director Nichols absolutely loves and wants that to become the standard of all parks moving forward.

28:09

Um so to your question is we are gonna help CMSD around uh looking at their inventory, improving their tree canopy, and then as properties become potentially available, see if we can be part of a solution so you don't have vacant buildings in your various wards, and we can repopulate them.

28:28

Okay, and then this continue along those lines briefly.

28:31

Then it pertains to city, our city parks and and facilities.

28:34

Again, um we all struggle getting our city uh department of public property.

28:41

Well, I still call it public property, parks and recreation, uh, to maintain our existing canopy that we have on our parks, but then also to get new trees planted.

28:50

I'm fortunate I have some volunteers now, uh, some people who are planting trees on their own in the neighborhood.

28:55

I'm very appreciative of that.

28:57

But I think we need to figure out how to step it up.

28:59

So the 150, um that's coming out of what general fund.

29:06

Um to the councilman through the chair to the councilman.

29:08

It's coming out of the um city council's budget, it's part of our annual budget.

29:12

Uh that along with the next piece, which is the VPAC, both of them go hand in hand and it comes out of our budget.

29:18

Then maybe when we when we talk about during the budgetary process, how do we how can we ramp that up a little bit more so we can get a bigger bang for our buck out here?

29:27

I want to see trees plant it.

29:28

I think if we did that, we would have to rework the SAW, the statement of work in order to add additional services to this work.

29:38

Okay.

29:38

Because again, uh, you know, what I've tried to do in my own area is where we have land bank lots, especially I mean thoroughfares, is just to plant trees along the sidewalks.

29:49

That's what I've been doing.

29:50

And it's worked well just to soften those lots.

29:54

I'm not talking about planting trees inside because maybe they'll be development sometime, and I don't want to lose the trees.

30:00

I'm planting them along, you know, eight foot off the sidewalk.

30:02

We've been planting, you know, lines of trees, and I will I would like to continue that, but then also with our existing parks and playgrounds.

30:09

How can we step it up?

30:10

Getting additional trees planted, and then getting to you uh through the chair, do you maintain and do you trim trees as well?

30:17

Uh through the chair to Councilman Palencick, we have a very high standard of care for trees.

30:23

We at my organization we like to say we don't plant trees, we nurture them.

30:27

Okay.

30:27

So what every tree we plant, we uh amend the soil so you have the right soil conditions.

30:33

Then we plant the tree for the first five years of the that's tree's life in the months of June through the end of July, uh end of August, the whole summer month.

30:45

Each tree we plant gets 15 gallons of water once a week every week.

30:49

In January and February, when the tree goes through dormancy and it's not grown, we do small tree pruning.

30:55

Okay, um, and so we're connected to those trees for five years.

30:59

Um lastly, you uh mentioned the question about um uh you have a very forested award and kudos to you.

31:09

We have design standards that we have been approved by the city's planning department.

31:13

We're on vacant lots, we do plant rows of trees, not only in the public right-of-way, but um on the lots itself that would not interfere with new home construction.

31:23

And we do all those trees, and I want to share this with the council.

31:27

This professional service contract um primarily covers staff time.

31:32

Um we seek grant funding to plant trees last year in 2025.

31:39

We planted more trees than every nonprofit in the city of Cleveland, plus the city of Cleveland combined.

31:45

City of Cleveland in 2025 or 2024 planted 64 trees.

31:52

And so we had over a thousand in the ground.

31:55

So we're here.

31:56

Look, there are priorities abound, um, but just we're here to help however we can.

32:02

Well, then I said you you just summarized where we're at, the problem that we're confronted with in the city.

32:09

So it's just something to my colleagues, it's something we need to kick around when we get into the budget hearings as to how we can uh earmark uh more tree planning, more tree trimming, working with CMSD, etc.

32:20

etc.

32:21

There's um this should be um this should be a major concern for us.

32:25

So again, I'll leave it at that.

32:26

And again, thank you uh for the Western Reserve Planning Conservicy and your engagement with me over the years, and especially your help at the Euclid Beach Mobile Home Park.

32:34

Without that, without your assistance, it would not have happened.

32:37

So thank you.

32:38

That's good.

32:39

And that's good that you have residents that are involved.

32:41

I mean, we've talked about recruiting.

32:43

You um can you talk about there's a group or a training?

32:47

Um yes, I mean, because I've learned about that.

32:49

I thought that was pretty cool.

32:50

And I think we should put in our newsletter.

32:52

We every year uh host uh it's called a tree steward training program.

32:57

There's six online uh two to three hour meetings, um, and then we do what's called a planting lab where we teach that person how to plant a tree and then a pruning lab.

33:10

Um council Councilman Palencick was talking about his ward.

33:14

Uh I'll give you a perfect example, Councilman.

33:16

There's a woman named Laura Marks, who I'm sure you know.

33:19

She is extraordinary, and she is taking it on, and she's retired now as our personal mission to plant trees.

33:26

Um, Councilman Spencer has kind of modeled a little mini program like we have in her own ward, doing really incredible work, empowering people to to look out for the urban forests.

33:37

So we make that class available for those uh who want to do it.

33:42

But you know, there are 34 neighborhoods in the city of Cleveland, and there's only 35 seats, so we try to spread it out.

33:49

Kevin Councilman Bishop has some amazing constituents who have just recently graduated through that program.

33:55

So um, however, the council we can help support you, you know, just please reach out to me and we're here to do so.

34:02

Thank you for that.

34:02

Councilwoman Spencer.

34:08

Thank you, Madam Chair.

34:09

This has been a great conversation highlighting the wide-ranging work of land conservancy.

34:14

But I want to just take a moment to acknowledge um that one thing that has really uh been tremendous this past year is witnessing how Western Reserve is very nimble and can do things that others cannot.

34:28

And so the uh it's in this summary that was distributed, but um the Herman Park Trail there that effort to try to uh work on this trail connector goes back for over ten 10 plus years at this point, and no one could get it done.

34:43

The CDC tried to apply for grants, couldn't failed, couldn't do it.

34:47

Um, and then ultimately the owner of the land attempted to donate it to the city of Cleveland.

34:53

There were reasons why there were roadblocks there, and Western Reserve came forward and said, we have a creative solution.

35:00

We we understand the vision for this trail connector, we can use our flexibility and our the tools we have as a nonprofit organization to get site control of this of this connector and begin to raise funds for the trail.

35:15

So um I am briefing the incoming council member Austin Davis about this.

35:21

It'll really be a uh ongoing collaboration between the city and Western Reserve to ultimately get this trail done connected to future park improvements for Herman Park.

35:32

But um if Western Reserve had not stepped in, we would just have this derelict, uh, it's a former rail spur, and it just sat there and no one could figure out what to do with it, and the city couldn't even accept the donation.

35:43

So I'm just incredibly grateful for your ingenuity for the organ organization's ingenuity and and just creativity.

35:51

Um and so please, through the chairwoman to Councilman Zone, please thank your staff.

35:55

They've been tremendous.

35:57

Thank you.

35:58

Thank you.

35:59

Hearing no other questions, or an ordinance number 1431-2025 has been approved.

36:05

Please sign on.

36:06

We have another one.

36:08

Okay.

36:10

Um next one, ordinance number 1421-2025, an emergency ordinance authorizing the clerk of council to enter an agreement with housing research and advocacy that doing business as fair housing center for rights and research to provide professional service regarding the vacant and abandoned properties action council.

36:30

Keto so to the chair person.

36:34

This piece follows the 431, and that's why I asked Councilman Zone to stay here.

36:40

Um, because it's our VAPAC piece uh for the vacant houses and the vacant land, and it just goes, it used to be a part of the Western Reserve, and they just pulled it out.

36:49

Oh god, okay.

36:52

Any questions?

36:53

Is VAPEC here?

36:55

No.

36:55

Um I could comment on that.

36:57

Okay.

36:58

Um through the chair to uh the council members.

37:02

Um there's a milestone that is going to happen on December 11th.

37:11

It's VAPAC's 20th anniversary.

37:14

Um VAPAC was founded in 2005 by uh three former council members.

37:21

Uh council member, former council member Lake Great Ray Pianca, um, Jim Rakakis and Jay Westbrook.

37:28

Um they were seeing early symptoms of how homes were going under uh when uh then county treasurer Rakakis was seeing um these parcels go under, and so they formed this working group made up of experts outside of City Hall and inside of government to work on this.

37:48

Um as um Vikita said for a long time this VAPAC was a program of Western Reserve Land Conservancy.

37:57

When I became uh the director of our urban program in 2020, we went through an organizational assessment to determine where we wanted to um do more work, and at that time it was identified that the Fair Housing Center was the most appropriate place to be the home of uh the VAPAC work.

38:16

Frank Ford is still uh works for them, and um it's a wonderful organization.

38:22

I know all of you should have received an invitation.

38:24

I'm gonna make sure after today um to make sure that they reach out to you again.

38:30

Uh so all of you are there at the event.

38:32

They're gonna bring in um uh Alan Malik from the Center for Community Progress, uh, who's gonna be their keynote speaker?

38:40

He's a very impressive gentleman who has scaled this uh in other older legacy cities.

38:47

But um it's really great that City Council believes in the work of VAPEC and invests in it, and just I wanted to give that context as to why uh Vikita asked me to stick around.

38:57

Uh Ms.

38:58

Chairman to Councilman Zone.

39:00

Can you just for the viewing audience can you just tell them exactly what VAPEC does?

39:04

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

39:05

VAPEC is an acronym, it stands for Vacant and Abandoned Property Action Council.

39:12

It's made up of over 50 and uh different organizations, uh many community development corporations, um within the city administration.

39:23

You have uh uh the building and housing department representative, council members.

39:29

Uh in fact, Councilman Harsh is probably the most active member of council and your liaison to VAPAC.

39:36

Um Councilman Harsh is uh uh I consider him one of the housing experts in our city.

39:41

Um and they work on looking at problems and and how they can improve them, but also where there's opportunity to make improvements with advocacy efforts.

40:00

Um they have now been able to leverage the county to take suit to what the work that the city is doing around the bank lending side to make sure that there's better programs for bank lending so people can get home loans, so people can get small loans to make improvements.

40:10

So they do that type of work and then they monitor all the land transfers and put that data up online on notice, which is uh system of Case Western Reserve University, which is the Northern Ohio Information Data System.

40:24

It's a mouthful.

40:26

Um, but they're doing really good work through the chair to Councilman Casey.

40:30

Thank you.

40:30

Thank you.

40:31

Any other questions?

40:33

Hearing no other questions, ordinance number 1421-2025 has been approved.

40:38

Please sign on.

40:39

Thank you, Councilman Zone.

40:41

Thank you.

40:41

Thank you.

40:42

Okay, next up we have uh ordinance number 1445-2025 by Councilmember Griffin, an emergency ordinance authorizing the clerk of council to enter an agreement with on technology partners for the professional services necessary to advise and assist in the maintenance and performance of computer technology projects and to provide specific computer technology services for Cleveland City Council.

41:09

That's the thought we're not saying here.

41:13

So Jason Madam Chairperson, this is our on tech um contract where we have Ken Fanger who comes in.

41:22

You see him here a lot.

41:23

He comes in and he assists us with a lot of our technology um projects as well as our um support.

41:33

Okay, any questions from my colleagues?

41:35

Any questions?

41:36

No.

41:37

Okay, hearing no questions.

41:39

Ordinance number 1445-2025 has been approved.

41:43

Please sign on.

41:44

Thank you, Chief.

41:45

Thank you.

41:45

Um should I do?

41:48

This one?

41:48

Yeah.

41:49

Okay.

41:50

Next up we have port control.

41:56

Yes.

41:59

And I think we called everyone about it.

42:01

Okay.

42:02

Okay.

42:04

Yeah.

42:06

Okay.

42:07

Hi, Chief, how are you?

42:09

Good afternoon, Madam Chair.

42:12

Okay.

42:12

We're going to start with ordinance number 1086-2025 by Council members McCormick and Griffin.

42:20

An emergency ordinance authorizing the purchase by one or more requirement contracts of industrial and building related supplies, materials, equipment, and services needed for maintenance, repair, and operations of facilities, including installation if necessary for department of port control for a period of one year with three one-year options to renew by the director of port control.

42:42

Director.

42:43

Good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

42:45

Port Control is requesting authority to enter into one or more requirements contracts for industrial and building related supplies, materials, and equipment for facility maintenance, repair, and overhaul.

42:54

The contract is essential as it will allow the department to procure the consumables, equipment, and supplies needed to maintain and improve the buildings and the related systems, which aids in extending the value and useful life of our facilities and property.

43:08

Contract will be for a period of one year with three one-year options to renew and has an anticipated cost of approximately $300,000 annually.

43:16

And we ask for your support.

43:17

Thank you.

43:17

Thank you.

43:18

Any questions from my colleagues?

43:20

This was heard in transportation.

43:23

Councilman Slife.

43:26

Okay.

43:27

Hearing no other questions, the ordinance number 1086-2025 has been approved.

43:31

Please sign on.

43:32

Next up, we have ordinance number 1251-2025 by Councilmember Slife and Griffin and emergency ordinance authorizing the director of port control to employ by contract or contracts one or more qualified insurance brokerage firm affirms to provide brokerage and administrative service for the plan for a planned owner-controlled insurance program needed for the terminal modernization development program at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport for a period of seven years.

44:06

Yes, Madam Chair, this item will be presented by Dennis Kramer, Assistant Director of Airport Development.

44:13

Thank you, Madam Chair, personal members of the committee.

44:15

As described, uh Airport is seeking authority to enter into this uh professional service agreement for a qualified insurance brokerage firm to market and provide insurance brokerage and administrative services for this owner-controlled insurance program, also known as OSIP, uh, for the upcoming terminal modernization development program.

44:34

Uh the services associated with this contract would be uh in insurance program, design and marketing, risk control services, contractor bidding services, claims management services, uh, OCIP administration services, loss control and safety services, risk management information system services, and closeout services.

45:01

Um what we're looking to do specifically for the terminal modernization program.

45:05

This is this is separate from our normal insurance that we carry for normal everyday operations of the airport.

45:10

But what we're looking to do is bundle the insurance services uh for the terminal modernization development program into one contract in an effort to uh save money, say budget.

45:22

Um it also will open up opportunities uh for smaller firms uh that may not be able to carry the higher level of insurance that we would normally require on some of our contracts, like out in the airfield.

45:34

Um it's so it's essentially kind of buying insurance in bulk.

45:38

Normally uh for all the different contracts that would be associated with the terminal program, each individual uh contractor or designer would be providing insurance to us.

45:47

So in this circumstance, we will and that cost they would pass along to us via the cost of their contract.

45:54

We are we are going to have them not provide those insurance services through those contracts, rather bundle them together, purchase it ourselves, and provide it for all of the participants of the program.

46:06

Uh so essentially again, essentially kind of buying in bulk.

46:09

Um I'll also again reiterate we do have you know normal insurance that we carry for uh Department of Port Control, but this is separate and this is you know specific to the terminal program itself.

46:21

Um happy to answer any questions.

46:23

And then just I want to mention uh we do have with us here today uh David Arendondo, he's uh representative of our executive program management team.

46:32

And uh he's here to help answer any questions you have also.

46:36

Um his firm uh helps deliver these types of terminal modernization development programs at airports uh all over the country, and and this approach to insurance for terminal programs is common at at large capital uh programs that happen at airports.

46:51

Uh so happy to take any questions, thank you.

46:54

Thank you.

46:54

Any questions from my colleagues?

46:56

No.

46:57

Councilman Slight, this was heard in transportation.

47:00

This was, and we focused on this one.

47:03

A good deal because given the amount.

47:05

Uh but just uh without fully restating it.

47:09

Uh this is an uh uh a measure through which we can uh decrease uh the uh cost associated with the terminal modernization plan uh by being able to essentially bulk buy insurance.

47:22

I think one of the many many compelling aspects of it, which Mr.

47:25

Kramer did mention, is the increased opportunity for smaller outfits to begin to participate in these uh uh bids for construction projects because they're not having to carry or provide insurance that may be cost prohibitive for them to uh provide individually as an organization.

47:44

Uh so this is a seven-year term which aligns with uh the timelines of the terminal plan.

47:51

And I would just ask my colleagues to uh support this so that the airport can move forward, giving us this uh nice shiny new terminal because Pittsburgh is opening.

48:01

So it's now we gotta outdo Pittsburgh.

48:04

So thank you.

48:05

Thank you, Councilman Slife.

48:07

Hearing no other question questions, ordinance number 1251-2025 has been approved.

48:12

Please sign on okay.

48:16

Next up we have ordinance number 1252-2025 by Councilmember Slife and Griffin, an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of port control to employ one or more professional consultants for a wayfinding service to assess, audit, and make recommendations to improve the ticketing lobby operations at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport for a period of one year with a one-year option to renew by the director of port control.

48:43

Yes, Madam Chair, uh to the comment made by Councilman Slype moments ago.

48:48

Uh we are working in earnest around uh making far-reaching improvements at CLE.

48:56

Uh so many of those improvements, especially the terminal headhouse with the new front door, is not expected to debut for about another seven years.

49:04

So we need to continue to serve passengers efficiently between now and then, sort of the gap period, if you will.

49:10

This project focuses on practical fixes to improve customer flow within the existing terminal facility.

49:17

Uh it will begin with an audit of both the land site and the air side wayfinding, but the primary focus will be the ticketing hall or the ticketing lobby, depending on what you call it.

49:27

As many of you know, the ticketing hall is one of our most congested areas, especially in the early mornings.

49:33

So clearer, more visible signage, both static and digital will help passengers move more smoothly from the front doors to check-in and security screening.

49:42

The project will have the ability to deliver visible progress rather quickly, easing congestion and improving the traveler experience while showing CLE's commitment to a modern welcoming airport experience as we plan for new expanded improved facilities.

50:00

We expect to begin implementation of the signage weight finding improvement soon after the facility audit is complete.

50:04

And but we thank you and uh ask for your support today.

50:07

And director, the cost is uh 250,000.

50:10

Is that some that's for one or more than one professional consultant?

50:14

So that is uh that is the the overall budget that we are planning for the audit and recommendations, and then anything that we choose to implement uh will be above and beyond that.

50:24

But we we will have that covered in our our budget for the upcoming year.

50:27

Got it.

50:28

Thank you.

50:28

Any questions for my colleagues?

50:30

No.

50:31

Uh councilman Slife, this was that it's good.

50:34

Okay.

50:34

Um other questions.

50:36

Ordinance number 1252-2025 has been approved.

50:39

Please sign on.

50:41

I love port control.

50:44

Ordinance number 1253-2025 by Councilmember Slife and Griffin and emergency ordinance authorizing the purchase by one or more requirement contracts of labor and materials necessary for constructing, repairing, maintaining, removing, replacing, disposing, and installing concrete services and structure on the roadways, tax seaways, runways, ramps, and other paved services for the various divisions of Department of Port Control for a period of one year with three one-year options to renew by the director of port control.

51:14

Uh yes, madam chair.

51:15

So we're required to maintain all airport pavement, including, as you mentioned, runways, taxiways, ramps, sidewalks, roadways in good operating condition to ensure the safety of aircraft and motor vehicles and for the safety of the traveling public.

51:30

So it's essential that we maintain repair and replace any deteriorating surfaces and foundations that are critical in the day-to-day operations of the airport.

51:39

And this contract will allow us to do so.

51:42

It will provide materials and labor to install, excavate, maintain, seal, repair, and replace all those services really focusing on concrete work.

51:50

Um it will include but not be limited to all those services I mentioned, and uh also passenger boarding bridge foundations and catchment uh catch basins, and so these services are required to perform the work which falls outside of the scope of our department's capability to perform.

52:07

Looking uh at an approximate cost of one million dollars annually, uh, which is covered in the upcoming budget.

52:14

Got it.

52:14

Any other any questions from my colleagues?

52:16

Councilman Slife, this was heard in transportation, or do you have a question?

52:20

No, okay.

52:21

Heard by committee and passed unanimously.

52:24

Okay.

52:26

Ordinance number 1253-2025 has been approved.

52:30

Please sign on ordinance numbered 1304-2025 by Councilmember Slife and Griffin and emergency ordinance authorizing director of port control to enter into one or more contracts with West Creek Conservancy for the design and implementation of what wetland mitigation projects for Department of Port Control and Director.

52:54

Yes, Madam Chair, this item will be presented by Dennis Kramer, Assistant Director of Airport Development.

52:58

Thank you.

52:59

Thank you, Madam Chairperson members of the committee.

53:01

Um again, yes, uh requesting authority to enter into this agreement with West Creek Conservancy for implementing wetland mitigation programs.

53:09

Uh, this will include but not be limited to land purchases, professional services uh for mitigation design and coordination and mitigation monitoring.

53:18

Uh, just a little bit of background here.

53:20

Back in the late 90s, early 2000s, when the airport built its outboard runway, uh, what we today call six left two four right.

53:29

Um, we displaced a number of wetlands at that time.

53:33

And so to move forward with the project at that time, we we actually had to uh based on direction from the EPA, we had to create another set of wetlands that are still there today in the southwest corner of the airport, uh, approximately eight acres of of wetlands.

53:50

Um, and so you know the United States Department of Agriculture has an employee that is there regularly.

53:58

Um they are the ones out there uh maintaining maintaining that wetland, if you will, uh, to prevent wildlife from being in the area.

54:06

Uh that's a big thing for for airports is to mitigate any kind of wildlife out in the airfield to protect the safety.

54:12

So we do have full-time coverage there, but it is best practice to not have wetlands on your airport.

54:17

And so for the past you know, 20 years since these were created, we've been looking at different avenues to uh mitigate these wetlands and you know remove them from the airfield for increased and improved uh safety of the airfield.

54:31

Uh currently about eight acres there per EPA guidelines uh to displace these.

54:37

We need to create essentially another 24 to 26 acres within the same watershed um of the existing wetland where you're where you're displacing it.

54:48

Um so we have identified a very unique opportunity uh in Grafton, Ohio that is within the same watershed uh to purchase uh land and then create these wetlands, and therefore we would then be able to mitigate the wetlands that are on our property.

55:04

So looking for you know approval to move forward with with that arrangement with West Creek Conservancy for the purchase, and then ultimately the creation of these wetlands on this property.

55:24

Credits will be satisfied by wetland creation enhancement and preservation and buffer enhancement and preservation.

55:31

The graft and mitigation site is highly unique, highly unique property, well situated to satisfy the Ohio EPA's mitigation requirements for the project.

55:41

And again, the the location is in the Black Rocky River Hydraulic Unit Watershed and the proximity to an existing mitigation bank, which is the Grafton Swamp Wetland Mitigation Bank, high category three wetlands abutting the eastern portion of the project, reduction in buffer requirements due to the existing project, opportunity for restoration of former agricultural fields, and conversion of land to restoration other than development.

56:11

No other sites contain these distinct qualities, ensuring the satisfaction of the permit approvers, the Ohio EPA for the project requirements.

56:21

So again, a very unique site that checks all these different boxes for us to be able to mitigate our wetlands and you know make sure we don't aren't creating a wildlife issue.

56:32

So uh requesting authority, happy to answer any questions, yeah.

56:35

Well, that was good.

56:36

Thank you for the description.

56:37

Councilman's life, this was heard in transportation.

56:39

It was, and there was also a robust conversation around this since it's uh pretty unique.

56:44

Uh but I think the uh two points to underscore are that having a wetland on the airfield is not ideal.

56:51

Uh it attracts waterfowl and other things that could interact with an airplane in a rather negative way.

56:57

And then under EPA regulations, there's a requirement that the wetland be preserved within the larger watershed.

57:05

Uh the portion of Cleveland within this watershed is generally only the part of the city that's west of West 150th.

57:12

Uh so but then extends into Badina and Lorraine County.

57:15

So the opportunity, the question was why are we re- essentially locate relocating a wetland from the city of Cleveland into another community?

57:23

And the answer essentially becomes a combination of having to stay within the watershed and the very limited opportunity to do so within the city of Cleveland, regardless of it being essentially fully developed as as being an externality, also.

57:39

So that's that's a little more context uh for my colleagues.

57:43

You're just the perfect council member for that committee.

57:47

Um hearing no other questions, ordinance number 1304-2025 has been approved.

57:52

Please sign on next uh ordinance number 1317-2025 by Councilmember Slife and Griffin.

58:02

An emergency ordinance authorizing director of port control to employ one or more professional consultants to provide financial and accounting consulting services for a period of one year with three one-year options to renew by director of port control.

58:15

Director.

58:16

Yes, Madam Chair.

58:16

Our current financial consultant contract will expire in February of next year.

58:20

Uh we've advertised our Q for financial consulting services as you mentioned for a four-year term.

58:26

Expect that process to be completed in the early part of next year.

58:30

Uh these contractual services are common in the airport industry, and uh they're used for preparation of financial analysis for the benefit of the terminal modernization development program as well as the negotiations surrounding the new airline use and lease agreement with our signatory airlines, among other tasks.

58:48

This service has assisted in presentation of analysis related to the collection and use of PFCs or passenger facility charges, as well as assisted in the analysis surrounding annual rates and charges.

58:59

Those are airline charges and the corresponding documents, which are provided to our airline partners annually.

59:04

The service assisted with the issuance of short-term debt in 2024 and will be involved with the issuance of long-term debt in coming years as our terminal modernization development program advances.

59:15

Other areas include responding to rating agency financial data requests, assisting in analysis showing costs to airlines for new service or expanding air service and financial analysis as requested.

59:26

And we ask for your approval today.

59:28

Thank you, Director.

59:28

Councilman's life, this was heard in transportation.

59:31

No further comment.

59:33

Hearing no other questions, ordinance number 1317-2025 has been approved.

59:38

Please sign on.

59:40

Next up we have an last art ordinance number 1318 by 2025 by Councilmember Slife and Griffin.

59:46

An emergency ordinance authorizing the director of port control to employ one or more professional consultants to provide on-call asset management management service for a period of one year with three one-year options to renew by the director of port control.

1:00:01

Yes, madam chair.

1:00:02

This final item for port control will be once again presented by Dennis Kramer, Assistant Director of Airport Development.

1:00:07

Thank you.

1:00:08

Thank you, Madam Chairperson, members of the committee.

1:00:11

So this particular service, we're looking to uh go out to bid uh to provide on call asset management services.

1:00:18

Uh air uh port control stood up our asset management program approximately five or six years ago now.

1:00:24

I think it was around 20 or 2021.

1:00:26

We brought on our first consultant for this.

1:00:28

Um asset management um is uh a common practice uh at airports and and not just airports but a lot of different types of organizations to uh make sure your you're tracking um the life cycle of all of your various assets, right?

1:00:44

Um when you bought it, how much you paid for it, how much you call its cost to maintain all of your different assets.

1:00:50

We have um incorporated them into this program, and so now we can track life cycle costs.

1:00:54

We can be more proactive and preventative in when we need to replace certain systems, when we can expect uh certain costs to be there for budgeting purposes for all of our different assets.

1:01:06

This particular contract involves training, design, maintenance, document and asset management support services, including building information modeling, uh completing LIDAR data collection, uh geographic information systems, digital and computerized maintenance management systems, CMMS, which is also uh we call CityWorks, um, and uh document organization.

1:01:29

Um again, life cycle tracking, budgetary management, financial forecasting uh to ultimately lead to cost savings for the department.

1:01:37

Uh so happy to take any questions and requesting approval.

1:01:40

Thank you.

1:01:41

Thank you.

1:01:42

Um this was heard in transportation.

1:01:45

Recommended first approval.

1:01:46

Thank you.

1:01:46

Hearing no other questions.

1:01:47

Ordinance number 1318-2025 has been approved.

1:01:50

Thank you, Director.

1:01:51

Thank you, Dunnington.

1:01:52

Thank you, Madam Chair, members of the committee.

1:01:55

Yes.

1:01:56

Real quick, miscellaneous director.

1:01:58

Yes, sir.

1:01:58

Uh to the chairwoman to the director.

1:02:00

I understand that uh Wednesday, uh a project for the airport uh that we've been working on for quite some time is gonna be have the ribbon cutting, and that's the adult changing stations for individuals with uh with disabilities who and that was a big part of us being able to get the Special Olympics here uh as well.

1:02:21

So I just wanted to say kudos to you and your team.

1:02:24

I'm glad we were able to bring everybody together to get that project done.

1:02:28

So I just wanted to thank you.

1:02:30

Thank you.

1:02:30

I threw the chair to the councilperson.

1:02:32

Really uh want to say thank you as well for your leadership and all the involvement and the coordination between port control and other organizations that made this possible.

1:02:41

So, yes, we will have a ribbon cutting of the new restrooms that are located pre-security adjacent to the central checkpoint.

1:02:49

And so uh those include a new men's restroom, women's restroom, family restroom, and that family restroom will incl be inclusive of the new adult changing station.

1:02:59

Uh that will be the first in the airport.

1:03:01

So again, that's pre-screening, and we've already identified a location for the first of those on the air side, uh, which we expect to be proceeding with in the upcoming year.

1:03:11

So very excited about this.

1:03:13

Uh and then in the spring of next year, we will uh open the additional lanes at the central security checkpoint, and that will complete that project.

1:03:20

But very much looking forward to this, and and thank you again uh to the councilman for for your support and your involvement.

1:03:25

Yeah, that's exciting.

1:03:26

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

1:03:28

Councilwoman Spencer.

1:03:29

Oh, Hairston.

1:03:31

Thank you, Councilman Casey.

1:03:32

Thank you, Director.

1:03:33

Glad to see that that is moving forward.

1:03:35

Uh that is uh a very exciting um for those who will be coming to the airport.

1:03:39

Absolutely.

1:03:40

Um your team and uh councilman Casey to make that happen.

1:03:46

So we're very grateful.

1:03:47

Uh just one one um one question.

1:03:49

With the shutdown now over and uh are things back to normal with the uh TSA, with the um the air traffic controllers, is things kind of settling back and when you if not, when do you expect things to kind of get back to normal through the chair?

1:04:02

Uh through the chair to the councilperson, thank you for for the question.

1:04:05

Um yes, so the the government reopened uh last week, but there were still some um limitations in place by um FAA on air traffic control, so uh reducing the number of flight activity at 40 airports across the country, while Cleveland was not one of those 40, and we do have service to 27 of the 40.

1:04:26

So we couldn't necessarily expect to escape from it entirely.

1:04:31

We were impacted, but uh I would say that impact was minimal uh across the the just a few days that it was in place.

1:04:38

Um and in terms of TSA and the staffing there, uh we fared very well uh with TSA and and the team at CLE showing up for for work uh and being able to um to safely uh process the passengers uh flying out of CLE.

1:04:55

So I'm very happy about that.

1:05:00

And uh the FAA has lifted the restrictions on flight activity, and uh it's expected that by the middle of this week um all of those flights will have been restored that were temporarily temporarily suspended.

1:05:11

So I think we're we're looking pretty good, especially as uh the busy Thanksgiving uh travel period is starting this weekend essentially.

1:05:17

Sounds good.

1:05:18

Thank you.

1:05:19

Thank you.

1:05:19

Thank you, Director.

1:05:20

Thank you everyone for your support.

1:05:22

Okay.

1:05:23

Next up we have finance.

1:05:28

Okay.

1:05:37

Okay, so this is ordinance number 1401-2025 by council members griffin, an emergency ordinance authorizing director of finance to employ one or more professional consultants to provide accounting service and implementation assistance of current and future governmental accounting standard board statements for the city's annual comprehensive comprehensive financial report and to provide accounting services in the preparation and calculation of current GASB that are already implemented by the city and to transfer that knowledge to the appropriate city personnel for a period of one year with two-year options to renew by director of finance.

1:06:16

Director.

1:06:16

Thank you.

1:06:17

Through the chair to the committee.

1:06:18

So what we're asking for is authorization to issue an RFP uh for GASB advisory services.

1:06:25

GASBY is the government accounting standards board.

1:06:28

Um as you may or may not know, GASB comes up with different accounting rules every single year.

1:06:34

Some of them are tougher to implement than others.

1:06:37

Um and what we're asking for uh is the ability to hire a firm to give us guidance and training um and to help us with implementation with any GASB standards that are introduced uh going forward.

1:06:48

We do currently have a firm um that we've been using for that.

1:06:51

Uh we're approaching the last year of that contract, so we're asking to go out uh authorization to go out to an RFP um how to not to exceed amount of fifty thousand dollars uh for that guidance going forward.

1:07:04

Um any questions from my colleagues?

1:07:07

Questions?

1:07:08

Okay.

1:07:08

Um so you know questions, ordinance number 1401-2025 has been approved.

1:07:14

Please sign on.

1:07:16

Uh okay.

1:07:18

Next up, ordinance number 1408-2025 by Councilmember Griffin, an emergency ordinance authorizing the amendment of 2024 revolving line of credit and or the issuance by the City of Cleveland of additional airport system in debtness in the form of revolving lines of credit for a commercial paper program and in a in an aggregate principal amount not to collectively exceed 476 million dollars at any of one time to pay costs of improving the airport system, authorizing amendments to the 2024 loan agreement and the 25th supplemental trust and or entering into one or more revolving credit agreements, reimbursement agreements, official statements, dealer agreements, supplemental indentures, notes evidence, um subordinated indebtness, and other agreement related to subordinated indebtedness and authorizing and approving related matters.

1:08:24

Wow.

1:08:25

And why is it all bold and like I would have to do?

1:08:28

Capital letters explain this one.

1:08:33

Yeah, sure.

1:08:34

So uh through the chair to the committee.

1:08:36

So um what we're asking to do is amend the uh line of credit that was passed by council previously for the airport.

1:08:43

Uh the current maximum is 175 million.

1:08:46

This is for the modernization program, and um director Francis can talk a little bit more to that.

1:08:52

Uh but we're looking to increase the amount.

1:08:54

The 476 million comes from what the airlines uh are open to, what they what they approve.

1:09:00

Um so that's where that limit comes from.

1:09:02

Um and we have some larger contracts coming down the pike, uh, and that's why uh we need to go ahead and increase this um this total limit.

1:09:11

So this is for design and engineering work, and again, the director can speak a little bit to that.

1:09:16

Um, and that is the reason for the ask.

1:09:20

Director.

1:09:23

So good good afternoon again.

1:09:24

Uh so the the increased amount uh from what was approved uh in 2023 by the or 2024 by the airlines uh and then entered into the short-term debt of 175 million dollars last year.

1:09:38

This year the airlines approved an additional 301 million dollars.

1:09:42

Uh that is to construct well, design and construct a new roughly 6,000 space parking garage, a new RTA uh station for the airport, and also a new ground transportation center.

1:10:00

So this short-term debt uh vehicle has been selected as the the path for uh funding those additional improvements.

1:10:04

We do expect that as time goes on, uh we will go in in the direction of issuing bonds uh as we get further approvals from our airline partners related to the new terminal headhouse and other features of the balance of the landside and future air side programs.

1:10:19

Got it.

1:10:20

Councilman Palenzi.

1:10:21

Thank you, Madam Chair Person.

1:10:24

To the administration.

1:10:26

Um why didn't this go before committee?

1:10:29

Why didn't this go into the Aviation Committee?

1:10:33

Port control.

1:10:35

Is there a reason for that?

1:10:37

Um through the chair to the councilman.

1:10:40

I'm not sure the exact reason, but this is a financial um primarily a financial uh ask.

1:10:47

So it's been brought to the finance committee.

1:10:49

But it also involves renovation.

1:10:53

New construction, correct?

1:10:56

Correct.

1:10:56

Through the through the chair to the councilman, it will fund it it's to fund those purposes temporarily until we issue bonds.

1:11:04

Okay.

1:11:04

Um is any of it in here for land acquisitions.

1:11:10

Through the the chairperson, there is uh no funding in this issuance for land acquisition, no, sir.

1:11:18

So this is just construction renovation on the existing footprint of the airport.

1:11:26

Through the chair, that is correct.

1:11:27

Uh this is specifically to to build a new parking garage to replace the existing garage we have on site.

1:11:33

And that will also include the new RTA station, which we need to replace uh to build the new terminal headhouse on the side of the existing garage.

1:11:42

Okay, and then also the associated ground transportation center, which will also be replaced as part of the future terminal program.

1:11:49

So again, I would just say this since this is such a big project, I still don't understand why it didn't go to committee for there could be really an in-depth discussion and presentation.

1:12:00

Um has the committee.

1:12:10

Did the committee review this in the past?

1:12:13

Any of the proposed improvements, expansion, renovation, new construction.

1:12:19

Maybe I can clarify a little bit through the chair to the council person.

1:12:22

The projects that are were actually moving forward, those did come through this body previously.

1:12:27

We're actually been moving through the procurement and contracting part.

1:12:31

This is specifically for the extension of the line of credit.

1:12:34

So the projects and all of that did come through this body previously, yes.

1:12:38

Okay.

1:12:38

So this is just from the for the financial aspect.

1:12:41

That's what you are telling.

1:12:42

The financial mechanisms, yes.

1:12:44

Mechanism, okay.

1:12:46

Um, um I'm gonna leave it at that.

1:12:50

As I said, you guys weren't here for the meeting this morning at 10 o'clock, pertaining to Brown's issue.

1:12:57

But I will tell you, and I'm gonna continue to restate it here at the table.

1:13:02

A major misstep, a major lack of vision was for the port control, not purchasing the 170 acres next to the airport where the Browns are proposing to go.

1:13:21

That will go down is one of the major mistakes that have been made within the last two decades, I will tell you that right now.

1:13:30

How you could have 170 acres right next to the airport, and we don't move on that is mind-boggling to me.

1:13:37

Absolutely mind-boggling.

1:13:39

And it raises serious concerns about um planning, future planning, and I'm just hoping again that um that when we look talk about expanding and improving the airport, that we look at surrounding property that possibly could be available because we are landlocked.

1:14:00

But I I just for the life of me, every time I think about that, I can't understand why we didn't move on that property, but I'll leave it at that.

1:14:06

Thank you, Madam Chair.

1:14:08

Thank you.

1:14:08

Councilman Casey.

1:14:09

Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.

1:14:10

Madam Chairman, whoever can answer this.

1:14:14

And I've been sitting on transportation for a while, but this is the first time I'm hearing of a new RTA station.

1:14:20

Did you just did you just say that a new RTA station?

1:14:23

Uh through the chair, that is part of the new parking garage project, yes.

1:14:26

And we we've mentioned that previously.

1:14:28

Okay, and is this RTA station staying on the grounds of the airport?

1:14:33

Through the chair, yes.

1:14:34

It will be a good thing.

1:14:35

Just because Councilman Polencick had mentioned before.

1:14:39

I want to make sure that we're not doing anything to make it more comfortable for somebody else to get something.

1:14:45

Uh and I know that a new RTA station has been talked about.

1:14:49

I think Councilman Slife wants to chime in and if you want to, go ahead, Councilman.

1:14:53

I just want to make sure that we're not doing anything to tease anybody else and not ourselves.

1:15:00

So two things.

1:15:01

One, I noticed this being introduced because I was gonna jokingly yell when I read it into committee because it's in all caps.

1:15:10

Um so I'd assume that it just wasn't back from administrative review yet.

1:15:13

Probably moving forward, uh let's make sure things like this come to uh transportation just for continuity.

1:15:19

Uh Councilman Casey, to your point.

1:15:22

The uh proposed new RTA station that would serve a property in Brook Park would be a net addition to the RTA network.

1:15:30

What is being proposed here is essentially a replacement on site of the airport since the current RTA airport station is basically underneath where the terminal needs to be.

1:15:41

So that in the future state there'd be a brand new airport station.

1:15:45

There's going to be a brand new airport station in any case.

1:15:49

Uh there is a concept for a plus one RTA station between the airport and the Brook Park station that would serve a new facility that I think has been uh kind of conceptually floated forward by the city of Brook Park.

1:16:06

However, I do want to state for the record now that the RTA station would also be partially in the city of Cleveland, so we do need to sort of bird dog that to make sure that that's not being planned absent hour input.

1:16:16

So thank you.

1:16:17

All right, I just yeah, I just wanted to make sure that you know this is replacing the one that's there now currently, and we're not adding anything or moving it any closer outside of the airport or anything like that.

1:16:29

Thank you, Mr.

1:16:30

Yes, through the chair.

1:16:30

It'll just be located under the new garage, whereas the the existing one is under the existing garage and sort of in front of the current terminal.

1:16:38

So it's just as we're moving our facilities further forward, further east, the station is moving east as well as part of the improvements.

1:16:45

All right, and then is RTA involved in this?

1:16:47

I mean, are they are they financially coming up with any dollars for the uh through the chair?

1:16:52

They are are not directly financially contributing.

1:16:55

Uh this is being covered by our airline partners.

1:16:58

However, we have committed to uh those partners that we will continue to work as we have been working with RTA on the the whole design effort uh and planning effort, but we will also continue to work with them around any uh alternative funding sources that may be possible to defray some of the costs that the airlines will otherwise cover.

1:17:15

All right, thank you.

1:17:16

Thank you.

1:17:17

Thank you, Director.

1:17:18

Here are no other questions.

1:17:18

Ordinance number 1408-2025 has been approved.

1:17:22

Please sign on.

1:17:23

There you go.

1:17:25

So are do we have these pieces with you?

1:17:27

I don't know.

1:17:28

It says finance.

1:17:31

I don't know.

1:17:32

Ordinance number 1489-2025 to vacate portion of West Earth.

1:17:39

Is this just internal or stuff?

1:17:41

No, that's an extra ordinance.

1:17:43

Yeah.

1:17:44

Do we get a street vacation for this?

1:17:46

Ines, do you know about this?

1:17:47

Because um, do you know about this one right there?

1:17:54

I mean and then we got two more here.

1:17:58

We have two.

1:17:59

Yeah, ordinance number 1490 2025 to vacated portion of West Earth Street.

1:18:03

This is by um council member Welsh Bishop and Harrison.

1:18:07

Do you hear this in your committee?

1:18:10

It's um ordinance number 1490-2025 to vacate a portion of Western Street.

1:18:19

No, I don't see it.

1:18:21

So remember to finance one too.

1:18:23

Yeah, it just says all finance.

1:18:25

Organized my grain.

1:18:28

Okay, well just hold it.

1:18:29

And then the last one with finance is another vacate.

1:18:35

Ordinance number 1491-2025 by council members well.

1:18:39

Bishop to vacate a portion of Western Street.

1:18:41

So they're all the same.

1:18:42

And you're not aware of it, right?

1:18:44

So we're just gonna hold these.

1:18:46

All right.

1:18:48

Let me see.

1:18:52

Yes.

1:18:53

For passage.

1:18:53

Did you hear this in your committee?

1:18:59

May I see if I I think it went to the planning commission.

1:19:02

I'm not gonna get at least illuminate what it is.

1:19:06

Yeah, go ahead.

1:19:08

Maybe for but I mean there none of no one's here to even talk about it.

1:19:13

Huh?

1:19:16

No, we just can't.

1:19:17

And then we have also economic development, but I don't see director here.

1:19:22

So we're done.

1:19:24

We're done.

1:19:25

Um finance diversity inclusion is adjourned to the call of the chair.

1:19:30

Thank you, everyone.

1:19:32

Let's go.

Discussion Breakdown — Share of Meeting
Airport Management██████████████████████████████30%
Community Engagement████████████████16%
Public Health Awareness██████████████14%
Parks and Recreation████████████12%
Land Use Planning█████5%
Technology and Innovation████4%
Environmental Protection████4%
Public Transportation████4%
Zoning And Land Use███3%
Summary of Proceedings

Cleveland Finance, Diversity, and Inclusion Committee Meeting - November 17, 2025

The Finance, Diversity, and Inclusion Committee convened on November 17, 2025, to review and approve a series of emergency ordinances focusing on public health initiatives, green space expansion, housing advocacy, technology upgrades, and extensive airport development projects under the Department of Port Control. The meeting featured presentations from community organizations regarding infant mortality rates and tree canopy management, alongside updates on terminal modernization, wetland mitigation, and airport debt financing. All proposed ordinances were reviewed thoroughly, with specific attention given to budget allocations, inter-organizational partnerships, and operational logistics before being approved unanimously.

Consent Calendar

  • Ordinance 1322-2025: Approved authorizing the Director of Public Health to enter a two-year agreement with First Year Cleveland to support infant health programming.
  • Ordinance 1431-2025: Approved authorizing an agreement with Western Reserve Land Conservancy (Thriving Communities Institute) for professional services regarding green space planning, vacant land restoration, and reforestation, with a budget not exceeding $150,000.
  • Ordinance 1421-2025: Approved authorizing an agreement with the Fair Housing Center for Rights and Research to manage the Vacant and Abandoned Property Action Council (VAPAC), transferring the function from Western Reserve Land Conservancy.
  • Ordinance 1445-2025: Approved authorizing an agreement with On-Tech Partners for professional computer technology services for Council operations.
  • Ordinance 1086-2025: Approved authorizing the Department of Port Control to enter requirement contracts for industrial and building supplies for facility maintenance.
  • Ordinance 1251-2025: Approved authorizing the Director of Port Control to employ an insurance brokerage firm for a seven-year Owner-Controlled Insurance Program (OCIP) for the terminal modernization development program.
  • Ordinance 1252-2025: Approved authorizing the Director of Port Control to employ consultants for wayfinding services to improve ticketing lobby operations at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport.
  • Ordinance 1253-2025: Approved authorizing the Department of Port Control to contract for concrete services and structure maintenance for airport roadways, runways, and taxiways.
  • Ordinance 1304-2025: Approved authorizing an agreement with West Creek Conservancy for the design and implementation of wetland mitigation projects to relocate wetlands off the airfield to a site in Grafton, Ohio.
  • Ordinance 1317-2025: Approved authorizing the Director of Port Control to employ financial and accounting consultants for one year to assist with terminal modernization and airline negotiations.
  • Ordinance 1318-2025: Approved authorizing the Director of Port Control to employ consultants for on-call asset management services for one year.
  • Ordinance 1401-2025: Approved authorizing the Director of Finance to employ consultants for Governmental Accounting Standards Board (GASB) implementation and advisory services with a cap of $50,000.
  • Ordinance 1408-2025: Approved amending the 2024 revolving line of credit and authorizing additional airport system indebtedness up to $476 million to fund terminal, parking garage, and RTA station improvements.

Public Comments & Testimony

  • Councilman Palencik: Expressed concern regarding the lack of neighborhood connectivity for infant health outreach and questioned why resources were not utilized at existing community centers like the Collinwood Rec Center. He also expressed skepticism about the high infant mortality rates compared to birth rates and requested data by ward. He later expressed deep frustration regarding Port Control's failure to purchase 170 acres of land adjacent to the airport for future expansion, calling it a "major misstep" and a "lack of vision."
  • Councilman Bishop: Questioned the trend of city birth rates and requested data on infant mortality by ward to better understand community-specific impacts. He praised targeted work in the Lee-Harvest community that reduced local mortality rates.
  • Councilwoman Spencer: Expressed strong support for the Western Reserve Land Conservancy's "nimble" approach, highlighting the successful resolution of the Hermit Park Trail project which had been stalled for over a decade. She credited the organization's creativity and flexibility for achieving results that the city and other entities could not.
  • Councilman Casey: Expressed gratitude for the Port Control team's role in facilitating the installation of adult changing stations at the airport, a key feature for the Special Olympics. He requested clarification on the status of FAA and TSA operations following the federal government shutdown.
  • Western Reserve Land Conservancy (Matt): Clarified that the organization nurtures trees for five years post-planting, provided detailed statistics on tree planting numbers (over 1,000 in 2025 vs. 64 by the city), and outlined a framework for partnering with CMSD to manage school district tree inventory and maintenance.
  • Port Control (Director/Dennis Kramer): Explained that the new RTA station is a replacement for the existing station which is beneath the future terminal, not a new addition to the network outside the airport. He confirmed the airport is operating normally following the government shutdown and that FAA restrictions have been lifted.

Discussion Items

  • First Year Cleveland & Infant Mortality: Director Angela White Newton and Public Health Director Francis Frank presented the organization's 10-year history and a $7 million investment strategy. Data was shared showing the 2024 preliminary infant mortality rate is 13.6 (African American: 19.7, Hispanic: 9.1, White: 5.8), significantly above the Healthy People 2030 goal of 5.0. While birth rates are declining, the mortality rate is rising. Council debated outreach strategies, with First Year Cleveland noting their "One Community" framework and resource app (First Year Connects) designed to reach families in specific zip codes through neighborhood centers.
  • Green Space & Vacant Land: Councilman Griffin introduced the Western Reserve Land Conservancy contract, highlighting a $30 million leveraged investment resulting in 2,500 trees planted over five years. The discussion included plans for the Store Avenue transformation, the Euclid Beach Transformation Project, and a new Thurgood Marshall Green Park. Councilmen expressed interest in expanding tree stewardship training and addressing dead trees on CMSD properties.
  • VAPAC Transition: Councilman Griffin clarified the transfer of VAPAC management from Western Reserve to the Fair Housing Center. Frank Ford confirmed VAPAC's role in leveraging county lawsuits and monitoring land transfers via the Northern Ohio Information Data System.
  • Airport Terminal Modernization: Director of Port Control presented a comprehensive package for airport improvements, including a new parking garage, RTA station replacement, and ground transportation center funded by a $476 million line of credit increase approved by airlines. Councilman Palencik questioned the lack of land acquisition plans next to the airport, citing the missed opportunity with the Browns' proposed site. Councilmen also sought clarity on the RTA station location, confirming it is a replacement on the existing footprint.
  • Wetland Mitigation: Assistant Director Dennis Kramer detailed the necessity of moving 8 acres of wetlands off the airfield to a site in Grafton, Ohio, to comply with EPA regulations and reduce wildlife hazards. The site in Grafton was identified as unique for satisfying mitigation requirements within the same watershed.
  • Ordinances 1489, 1490, 1491 (Street Vacations): These ordinances to vacate portions of Western Street were held for review. No committee members present in Finance were aware of the details, and no representatives from Planning Commission or the councilmembers who sponsored them (Welsh, Bishop, Harrison) were present to advocate for the measures.

Key Outcomes

  • Unanimous Approval: All presented ordinances were approved by voice vote and instructed to be signed.
  • Budget Allocations Confirmed:
    • $500,000 for First Year Cleveland over two years (general funds).
    • $150,000 maximum for Western Reserve Land Conservancy professional services (2026 scope).
    • $150,000 maximum for VAPAC professional services.
    • $300,000 annually for Port Control industrial supplies.
    • $300,000 annually for Port Control concrete services.
    • Five-year budget for Port Control insurance brokerage (OCIP).
  • Strategic Directives: The Committee acknowledged the need to rework the Statement of Work (SOW) to potentially increase tree planting budgets and requested specific data on infant mortality and birth rates by ward from the Public Health department.
  • Next Steps: The Committee will revisit the street vacation ordinances (1489-1491) once Planning Commission details and sponsor advocacy are provided. Port Control is scheduled to proceed with the wetland mitigation project in Grafton and the terminal modernization financing.

Meeting Transcript

Good afternoon, everyone. Today's November seventeenth, twenty twenty five. Finance diversity and inclusion committees being called to order. Madam Folk, please call the role. We're gonna start with our guests, which is ordinance number thirteen twenty-two dash twenty twenty-five. This is Public Health, Director of Public Health. Any agreements needed to implement such programming for a period of two years. This piece of legislation is more supportive program. First year Cleveland was established in 2016 as a result of a resolution from Help to establish an organization to coordinate the work that was going on in the community relative to reducing infant mortality. Push the button, thank you. Just pull up closer. All right. As infant mortality is still an issue in our community. I have brought with me Angela White. She is the director of first year Cleveland to provide an overview and update of the program. Thank you. Um Vice Chair Santana. Um, as Francis mentioned, I'm Angela Newman White Executive Director of First Year Cleveland. Um, you know, the organization, as she mentioned, was formed in 2015 in response to the high infant mortality rate. I have the privilege of participating on the original think tank to create first year Cleveland when I was in my former role at the health department. The organization's primary primary purpose is to do policy advocacy and fundraising. So, how do we make the jobs of our community-based organizations and health care providers easier? And so we do that by kind of rebranded us as a connector, protector, and activator. So we build capacity for local organizations to meet the needs of their families by providing training, capacity building, um, and direct funding. Uh between the 2022 and 24, we invested over seven million dollars into local organizations uh providing services to pregnant and parenting women. Um, that is you know comprised of different funding sources that we've raised through the Ohio Department of Medicaid through philanthropy, and also with the support of the city and county um budgets. The flexibility of the city and county funding is vital for us because it allows us to be responsive. Um, most funding coming from the federal and state government is very prescriptive with high fidelity models and not really responsive to what actually each unique community needs. And so by us being able to provide community investment dollars as well as small mini grants, we can fill the gaps and provide the overall comprehensive services that our families need. Um as we're housed at Case Western Reserve, we also um participate in applied and systems level research. So, how are we providing an immediate benefit that's going to yield um the greatest or the best outcome for communities? Doing things like newborn screenings, looking at systems um changes, but then also addressing housing through our healthy beginnings at home project with the intent to um justify or solidify pregnancy as a uh eligibility criteria to prioritize subsidies for housing. And the last piece, which I'm most excited about, is around advocacy. So we work with directly with um residents around civic engagement. So, how do you not only advocate for yourself during your medical appointments but also for your community and your community's needs? Um we lead the statewide infant vitality advocacy day effort. Uh, this year was our third, and we had you know over 75 people from across the state there, and the governor DeWine did come and have conversations with us, but it's an opportunity to highlight key legislators and legislation that prioritizes families and thank those folks and also educate those um you know that need to kind of make sure that we're prioritizing the needs of families when we are putting forth legislation, not only with how it reads, but how do we actually operationalize it? So if you have I'll stop there if you have any questions. Yeah, chief, the 500,000 is that ARPA dollars? No, that's that's from general funds, general fund dollars. Okay, is Connell here? And it's over a two-year period, it's 250 over two year period. And the money would go towards go to first year Cleveland for the purpose of everything that she's done, like okay, programming. Um, I do have a question. I'm right, she's saying I do um pull it close. We've talked about, I know it says here on the legislation that Cleveland are high and often impact high school college completions, family stability, but we're talking about pregnancy rates, um, are high in our area, and it's like I always constantly hear in articles that it's the other way around, like people are not having kids. I'm just curious to know like how are the numbers compared to like years ago where Chief, we were talking about this, right? We had high mortality rates about a couple three years ago. How are they now today? Uh preliminarily, we have 24 data.

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