Good afternoon.

Today is Monday, January the twelfth, two thousand twenty six.

This committee of finance diversity, equity, and inclusion is called to order.

Madam Clerk, call the roll.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Please let the record show that Councilman Santana has an excused absence.

All right, thank you.

The first ordinance that we will hear is ordinance number 1507-2025, as amended by Councilmember Griffin by departmental request, an emergency ordinance to amend section one seventy-one dot four zero of the codified ordinances of Cleveland, Ohio, nineteen seventy-six, as amended by ordinance number ten eighty one-twenty twenty-four passed November twenty fifth, twenty twenty-four, relating to the use of city credit cards.

And there is an amendment.

And after clerk of council insert an additional credit card, also held by the clerk of counsel or his or her designee that will serve as a backup to the principal card.

Each of which two in section one at amended section one seventy-one dot oh dot four zero at division A to After or arbitration association insert in quotations or other third party neutral.

Number three, in section one, at amended section one hundred seventy-one dot four zero at Division A eight in the first line strike, a credit card, including an additional backup card and insert principal credit card and in second line strike project coordinator travel coordinator and insert travel coordinator and an additional credit card also held by the travel coordinator or his or her designee that will serve as a backup to the principal credit principal card, each of which and strike or his or her designee.

Number four, in section one, add amended section one seventy-one dot four zero, strike on her or her designee.

This is dated one twelve, twenty twenty-six.

So the rationale for requesting this, uh we want to ensure and provide safe travel for city employees and other city stakeholders.

Um in order to do that, we need to make sure that if a credit card while someone's on travel, if it gets cut off for some reason for uh suspected fraud or some other reason that we have a backup so that um we can go ahead and make whatever adjustments or whatever payments we need to make while we're rectifying that event.

So this again is for finance and for uh city council as well, and then also just expanding on the language for a law.

All right, thank you.

Uh just real question, uh quick couple of quick questions do the services have to be rendered before any payment is remitted by these credit cards.

To the chair, I don't think that these microphones are allowed.

Our microphone system is updated.

Yeah, th to the chair.

So normal procedure is a reimbursement procedure.

Um I think through code that allows us in certain instances to pay in advance.

Um go ahead, I'm listening to you.

Yeah, so there um you know there is that uh exception in some cases.

Okay.

Uh so um is this normal or best practice that other cities have used too pretty much to have a backup because I could see how if there is fraud or something else and a card gets um frozen, um a lot of us could be end up being stuck out in uh a city without backup support.

So to the chair, this city actually used to have two cards.

So this is just reinstituting uh a prior uh procedure that we had.

So yes, it is best procedure to make sure that uh we don't have somebody stuck while they're out on travel without a way to pay their their bills.

Okay.

All right, those are the questions I have.

Uh Ms.

Stigers, did you want to have any comment?

No, but this is um Council President.

This is just for like when we're ready when you all go to NLC and stuff like that.

What usually happens on my end is when I'm doing the credit cards for the um the credit card payment for the airplan the airfare, it'll stop me after I do so many of your um airfare.

So this is what that helps for.

And then also when you all get down there, if they have an issue, it helps us have an extra card.

Okay.

Thank you.

Are there any other questions for the director or for the team?

Uh councilman Charles Slife and then Councilman Brian Casey.

Yes, uh, thank thank you.

Um could the director through the chair uh expound on what arbitration association means?

Sure.

So through the chair to the councilman, it's expenses related to arbitration to pay the arbitrator and those associated expenses.

I I will admit that um I'm not sure if this body is familiar with the ins and outs of every time we're with an arbitration.

Uh is there a specific reason that that was brought forward as putting that on a credit card and and that almost seems like an expense that this body would want to be aware of, just paying for it on a credit card doesn't feel intuitive given the the gravity of what that could be.

Sure.

Through the chair to the councilman.

So we are seeing more and more in this day and age, uh resistance to checks and cashing checks.

We've had that issue with at least one major vendor this year.

Um so we would prefer to have the ability to use a credit card instead of a check.

Um so you know that that's an important reason, and we want to make sure that expediency um you know is available in in paying for these uh these fees um because arbitration is you know time sensitive.

Are there are there you know, when we talk about credit card interest rates and I guess part of me thinks that like you might not want to check, but you you want your money, here's your money.

Uh is that something that we should be bending on and acquiescing to that request?

And are there costs on the back end with paying for arbitration on credit cards versus rather out of our uh through our checking account?

So through the chair to the councilman, good question.

So we do actually pay the card off every month.

Um I'm not aware of any fees that we're paying on the card, annual fees, and no interest is accrued or paid uh as long as we keep up with that policy and pay it at the end of every month, which we do do.

I could go back to you if you want me to.

Okay, yeah, come back.

All right, Brian Casey.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh Mr.

My questions kind of go around with councilman Slife, and that is does this give you the ability if we hire a third party law firm to go out and do the work of the of the law department.

Does this allow us to pay them then with the credit card as opposed to them billing us and sending a check?

So through the chair to the councilman, the language is specific to arbitration and third party neutrals, which refers is another way of referring to arbitration.

So the the meaning and the intent of the language is for specifically for arbitration related expenses.

So Mr.

Chairman to the director, which is basically what we hire third party firms for, correct?

Through the chair to the councilman, arbitration is a specific use of a third party, um, as opposed to just saying you're gonna go and and hire a law firm to review a contract or or some other item.

All right, Mr.

Chairman to the director.

Let me let me give you a let me just use a specific example, right?

We hire Jones Day to go out and negotiate the Brown stuff, right?

I'm just I'm just asking, right?

They do all the legwork, the arbitration, whatever, but it never goes to court or anything like that.

Would this give us the ability then now to pay them with the credit card as opposed to them billing us and us cutting them a check?

Through the chair, the council person.

Uh no, this wouldn't do this.

This is just for strictly just arbitrating.

That would be an actual professional service like Jones Day with the Browns.

We wouldn't consider it arbitration.

This primarily revolves around the uh labor negotiations, and you usually pay this arbitrator when they have to rule, like for EMS we went to arbitration, the bill is like a couple thousand dollars that you have to pay the arbitrator.

Uh, I believe they're starting to switch to not accepting checks like a lot of people are.

So anything over 50,000, like a Jones Day or these big contracts are not included in this.

This is strictly paying just the arbitrator, kind of like the referee at Vs mainly at uh it would be mainly labor negotiations.

All right, then Mr.

Chairman to the director, can you break down the difference between arbitration and a third party neutral?

I mean, the arbitration is the arbitrator, right?

But then you're saying an arbitrator is the third party neutral.

So can you just break down why we have or yeah?

So through the chair to the councilman, the uh the neutral is just another way of referring to as uh Mr.

Gentile said, uh a referee, someone that's in the meet middle mediating um, you know, uh uh I guess a disagreement between two parties, so it's specific to that.

All right, and then um under number eight, Mr.

Chairman to the director, who is your uh travel coordinator?

Through the chair to the councilman, that is Andre Reynolds.

Okay.

And then Mr.

Chairman, if we can put in a request for um the transportation, the lodging, the food expenses, and the registration for the administration that has been placed on the credit card for the year 2025.

Thank you.

Um do you have that?

Okay, thank you.

All right, uh, Councilman Richard Starr.

Thank you, Council President.

No, just for in this ordinance of 1507, um, just to make sure I understand.

So there's four city credit cards that's issued um through the city through the chair.

Uh through the chair to the councilman, I believe there's eleven.

Eleven?

Yeah.

And then at all those eleven are dispersed between port of control director, finance director, chief financial officer, department of public utilities, director of innovation and technology.

I know those are the four areas.

So therefore, is it two in each one, or where is it breakdown?

So through the chair to the councilman, if you look at the full ordinance, uh it outlines the the different parties.

So you have what page, sir.

It's it's throughout the legislation.

Yes.

Yeah, and but when I look at it, it just says, or his or her design.

It doesn't say this department get two, this department got three.

From the breakdown of what I'm looking at from this ordinance, it shows that um the port of control director has a credit card or his or her design, and the same thing in line with the finance director, his or her designee, chief financial officer department or public utility is our designee, director of innovation at technology, his or her design.

How do I just trying to see where does it line up to say this department has two, this department has one, and how does it flow for me to understand that through the chair?

Yeah, through the chair to the councilman, thank you for the question.

So the reason that we're even coming with this um request is because all of them are relating to one credit card.

So there aren't multiple cards per section, it's one card.

So that's why we're asking that the language be changed to allow us to have a backup card to allow the clerk of curt to have a uh, or I'm sorry, council to have a uh a backup credit card.

So this is a relate, so changing this will be able to assist council with their credit card that we currently have instead of having one card to have two cards through the chair to the councilman, that's correct.

And currently with the credit card that Cleveland City Council have, um, that credit card is under whose designed name.

Through the chair to the councilman.

Um the clerk of council, Patricia Brett.

And through that process, based on this ordinance, this allows us to determine what the credit card can actually be utilized for through the chair.

Yes.

And then also, is there a credit limit on our credit card through the chair?

Through the chair to the councilman, yes, on each card.

What is the limit on each card to the chair?

They're through the chair to the councilman, they're all different.

Um I I can read them all off if you don't want me to.

Uh for city council, it's $53,120.

That one more time I can't hear you.

For city council, it's $53,120.

For the law department, it's currently $15,000.

For port control, it's currently $10,000.

For uh finance and admin, it's currently $5,000.

Uh for purchasing and supplies, it's currently $10,000.

Uh for the housing court, it's currently $5,000.

For finance for travel specifically throughout the city, that's $200,000.

For IT, they have a card with a $10,000 limit.

The mayor's office currently has one for $5,000.

And public safety currently has one for $5,000.

Thank you.

Um, and also thank you for just that breakdown and and I don't see it written down.

Is that something we can request to get that sent over as well?

Um, because I don't see it in the legislation.

Ms.

Majesto, can we have a follow-up to get that information?

So, yeah, through the chair to the councilman, we do have a cardholder agreement where I got all that information that was updated uh the end of December.

So we could we'd be happy to provide that to you.

Okay, thank you.

And then also within this standpoint, um I know through the chair to the director, you mentioned certain organizations and companies are doing away with checks.

So, what I would like to ask from a standpoint of just a line of business, have the city um looked at any other payment process such as ACH automatic clearinghouse um practices.

Is that something that the city is currently exploring or actually doing when it comes to issuing payments through the chair?

So through the chair to the councilman, I'm very glad you brought that up because this is one of my top priorities this year is to change the way that we do invoicing.

Um I have actually sat in on demos with uh a few vendors.

I've got another one uh the end of this week to where a vendor potentially could uh attach an invoice and submit this all electronically, as well as enter their banking information um and be able to pay all this electronically.

It would completely change the way that we we invoice um and would eliminate many of the checks that we print.

Um these companies are saying it would be you know six to eight month implementation.

We're already getting quotes, and this is something that I will be bringing to council and something we can discuss further during budget hearings.

And then also through that through that same process, I think it is good.

Um I definitely would like to sit down, and one of my top priority is looking at discretionary funds.

Um, I believe it makes no sense that we as a council members have to put up twelve hundred dollars out of our own pocket each and every month in order for us to get things done inside of our neighborhoods where we have money set aside an account where we can be able to figure out ways to get things invoiced to the city and the city could possibly um pay everything out to that event or to that community meeting or anything like that.

I think we have to move along and get up to date with time, um, as well as the entire process of discretionary funds.

I think it's a rigorous process that is not helpful.

Um, it's been stressful the last four years where 20 people looking at one thing and then things never get out.

And some people get theirs out, some don't.

And I believe we need to have something that can help make things process much better, and also so we can be able to help um get the job done because it doesn't make sense for us to ask for a nonprofit agency to front load money with expectation that they would draw down the funds later.

You know, this is not 1700s, this is not the 1800s.

There should be a more expedited process in which something is legally allowed to do through the legislation that is approved, they should be should be able to say, hey, I could build a city as opposed to someone putting up money and waiting three months or four months to get reimbursed.

If that's something that I could sit down with you, director to talk about processes similar to this to be able to look at um how city pay out instead of not just reimbursements, but also more so hey, and the invoice came from an event that actually took place and it was billed to the city, the city could possibly pay after the event and through some type of process that can help um make and streamline certain things that is going on through this um through city council as well as other departments potentially through the chair.

You can speak to anything of that director.

Through the chair to the councilman, would would definitely be open to that and and would and you know and invite that meeting, uh including you know council staff uh to be involved in that conversation.

But I'm here to improve processes to the best of my ability.

So um that's a major initiative of mine this year.

So happy to have that discussion.

All right, and then my last crack last point that I definitely will um understand is when it comes to the Cleveland City Council and using our credit cards is basically mainly for transportation expenses while traveling on city business, um, expenses while traveling in and on the city, full expenses while traveling on business, um, as well as office supplies, registration, tuitions, enrollment, expenses for meet and seminars, conferences, or retreats.

Um, so mainly all these different things.

Have we ever explored a process where we can use a credit card to help explore our discretionary funds um through the chair to our CFO?

So through the chair to the councilman, um, actually what this is is for operations.

This isn't discretionary fund.

Um, so you're actually merging the two, and we've never done that.

So our credit card right now is primarily so that I can make sure that you all, when you go to NLC and places like that, that you have the um funds to do that.

That's what that's for.

It's not for discretionary funds, it's not for reimbursements.

That's what it's really for.

It's for operations of council.

Yes, and what I'm saying from let me rephrase the question.

What I'm stating is we have a credit card for operational purposes.

Have we ever explored getting a credit card utilizing a credit card system for discretionary funds as well to the chair through the chair, the councilman?

Uh I don't think we've really looked at that.

Um, but kind of piggybacking on what the director was talking about in the future when we get this the new electronic payment system up and working for the city, this will allow vendors once they provide service to upload their invoice so it won't get lost.

Uh, it'll be in the system.

We'll be able to see it.

Finance is then gonna be reaching out to departments, divisions, do whatever they say, did you get the service?

Why didn't you pay?

So it is going to split speed up the process across the board on payments greatly, because the vendor's gonna invoice you right away because they want to get paid.

Yes.

Uh, and it'll be in the system because they're gonna put it in the system.

We're gonna validate it across the city, whoever got the service that we got the service and we like it.

And then if they put their banking information in and then finance now, we'll have a complete list.

Right now, the invoices go to each department division, it's a decentralized system.

So if it's sitting in public works or wherever, we don't necessarily know.

We will know now.

Because as soon as that vendor puts it in, we're gonna have a report that's gonna say utilities is sitting on 50 invoices.

This is when they got them.

So we're really going to be pursuing across the board and the payment process will be a lot, lot quicker for all the vendors across the board with the new system.

Um, we've done a lot of pre-work on this.

We're ready to go on this.

The director's got one more presentation to look at uh at the end of this week, and then I think we're gonna, you know, he's gonna make a decision and then we're going to start to implement that process.

So it's coming this year, it's coming fairly soon.

Uh, and vendors will start getting paid electronically and a lot quicker because they're gonna drive that payment by putting their invoice in the system.

I think that is a great process.

Um, I definitely look to see how that rolls out and also see if that process is other ways that we can utilize that and other different source of funding for the city as well.

So I yield council president.

Council President, may I make up a statement?

So, Councilman Um Starr, let me just preference by saying from the administration standpoint, you have to have a document that's encumbered so that you can pay any invoice.

It's not just that somebody sends an invoice because I went out and bought something on the city side.

So you have to have the encumbering documents and everything up front and it's not just that someone gets an invoice and it goes into the system.

And and to that point uh to the to the council president explain that in the terms of discretionary funds if we pass legislation for an event where it is approved for um 5,000 or 10 thousand dollars to do an event in in the war in collaboration with an organization there should be a way that we can pass the legislation with the breakdown of how the funds are spent and those organization who is actually doing the work can invoice the city and the city can be able to pay the invoices um not before the event but after the event takes what take place.

What I'm saying is how do we streamline something to make it more um accessible as opposed to people um waiting on a CDC to pay them back to get reimbursed and when we just look in our accounts we have money sitting in there that we could have just paid out but we got to make somebody else pay it before they can get paid.

So with that process meaning and when you talk about encumbrance um if you break that down more into modernization and modernize what it is that we're doing it'd be a system where we create a program where we did pass legislation to accept this money being used for this and it's airmarked for that event and now it would be get paid back on reimbursement straight to or invoice not even reimbursement paid straight back to that vendor without nobody else having to put up money.

So my thing is if we had an event and we was able to get um the finance director and if we had since we do have an attorneys I think it would be more streamlined that our attorneys can make through from a legal standpoint that is something that we can do once we do that we introduce the legislation get it approved and therefore everything is billed to the city and not nobody else and then the city would pay the invoice as opposed to having to pay a nonprofit or a CDC who put up and front load the money that's already in account through through the chair to the councilman um there's a kind of a piece that's kind of been lacking or not always happening.

So if council passes a piece of legislation um if somebody some of the staff some staff enters in a pre-encumbrance or an encumbrance in the system then you would have you would have that a lot of times we just pay historically it just kind of paid off of you know council just a piece of legislation but in the system if they put in uh a pre-encumbering document and if law has a professional you know your lawyers do a professional service contract or what have you or or something and law would have the city law would have to review it but it shouldn't take long and then uh if you have that in the system then you default right to the process I'm talking about but the piece that I think could been a little bit off is once legislation's passed in time for council that documents not always put into the system not and historically it didn't have to be because council approved it but to make the system work for these people to get paid quicker and if you want to pay people directly if your legislation say you're paying XYZ company directly and it lists out all the services and then that kind of gets memorialized into an agreement that gets put into advantage this the accounting system then it would work the same way as any other bill that I'm talking about.

Thank you and I believe that's great and I know with the changes of of council going from 17 wards to 15 boards um I just want to at least open it up for you director to talk about um how your department is being able to um attach finances for departments or not departments into wards to fit the news landscape of different wards have you have a process to ensure that things like that is in place because we may have some stuff that went in or some stuff that was passed last year when it was 17 wards but now that the makeup is changing are you able to catch each a document or look at each account to fit the right scope of the wars that is currently um is shown as 15 as of today to the chair to the chair the councilman I mean we've got to take a look that that we have to sit down with council staff to talk about how you switch these because like 17 and 16 doesn't exist anymore now it could be over here could be over there.

So we have to take a good hard look at now that we're down the 15 and rearrange some things we have not done that yet we know we have to do it we know we have to get with council staff figure out each of these projects so they have an owner and we will be doing that you know very soon because we do have to reaggregate that.

Yeah and through through the chair to the councilman the only thing I want to add is we've noticed that at times what we show as a balance for your NEF funds or or other funds do not match with what um with with council showing so to me that that needs to be fixed.

So to me that that needs to be fixed.

So we've already talked with OBM about you know setting up a process to do this automatically to where we can just run a report because the the legacy inherited uh process was manual.

We had a basic balance and then we broke it up 17 ways.

Um and that's why we don't match with council.

So at this point, you know, I think um we need to get with council staff and come up with a like you know, just one process between you know both groups, and then we can kind of monitor each other, and I think that's that's important.

That's something we could do this year.

Thank you.

Hi, yell chair.

Can I can I get a point?

Um councilman, I could put you on the list.

One of the things that we talked about in our meetings that we're not according to Roberts Bruce's order, we're not doing points.

We're gonna move away from that, but I will put you on the list and I make sure that you get on the list if you could.

So I'll put you on the list, but that's something if they could get us doing that.

But I mean, for the sake of uh making sure that we um control the stream of the argument or the discussion, we're gonna move away from points.

So I just want to make sure everybody know that.

Um I do want to make sure that we get councilman Conwell's question answered, so we'll reiterate it once we um get to that point, okay?

All right.

Um councilman Michael Palency.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, my honorable colleagues.

Um, to the director, you ran through the list.

Um so what's on the card?

What's the what's is what's is there a name on a card?

What's on the card?

What's on the individual card, Mr.

Chairman?

Through the through the chair to the councilman, it is the person's name that holds the card.

Okay.

So then uh you mentioned the it the you mentioned there was 53,000, you ran down the list.

Who who was the 200,000 again?

Through the chair to the councilman, that is Andre Reynolds.

Andre's got the two, you got all the bucks, Andre.

I see that right.

Okay, okay.

Um he's the guy to go to if you want to party.

I see that on this list right now.

Okay.

Um the um credit card is issued, Mr.

Chairman, through what financial agency?

Through the chair to the councilman, all of them except for the one for the courts is through Huntington Bank.

Okay.

Huntington.

And the courts is through who the chair to the councilman, I stand corrected.

They're Huntington also.

Okay.

Are they in compliance with the community investment act?

I I want to get a verification from the um community development director, if we could, but I do recall that last year they were in negotiations.

Okay.

I don't know if they finalized it, but I believe Huntington was one of two banks that were in negotiations and trying to finalize a CRA.

Okay.

I'm I just I want to make sure about that because I we could can we verify that so I can make sure that's because I have raised this issue in the past that I don't believe we should be doing business with anyone, any financial institution does not comply with the community reinvestment act, because again, if if they don't support our local businesses and our local residents, um, especially in the area of mortgages, um car loans, et cetera, then I don't believe we should be doing business with them collectively as a city.

I'm I'm very feel very strongly about that because I have I have great concerns about that uh about our folks being denied lines of credit in the city and mortgage opportunities.

And I know I will say this, I know Huntington has attempted to do some unique things with mortgages for Cleveland residents, so that's encouraging, but I still want to know through the chair that again um if and not only that, I want to know you're gonna ask we asked a question on Huntington, but I'm gonna ask all through the chair and to the director, all of financial institutions that we're doing dealing with in the city, do they comply with the community reinvestment act?

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

I know councilman Shaw just came in.

If you would like to set him up, all council members are able to come and sit at the table.

However, just the finance committee will be able to vote.

So just want to make sure if councilman Shaw wants to be seated, he can be seated.

Okay.

Okay, thank you, sir.

All right.

Uh is that it, uh, Councilman Palency.

Yes, it is.

All right, thank you.

Councilman Conwell, I kept you on the list.

Did you want to make a comment or ask uh anything to the conversation?

Probably here, you know, I like with um Councilmember Starr, Sam.

You know, Mr.

President, I've been spending a lot of my own money.

You know, especially when um Mr.

President, especially when John wasn't paid money, and you heard uh former council member Anthony Harrison and Mike Belinsky and I were talking about it, and his uh Faminko's money was uh was tied up, tied up meaning he couldn't spend it.

So I spent thousands of dollars of my own money because I had to get things done, and that's frustrating.

But then when I hear the controllers say they'll get to it, no, I don't when I look at people sitting in and get to it.

I like hearing at least dates.

If you tell me through the chair, councilman Cornwell, can you please give me two weeks or three weeks so I could take a look at it?

Then I know, council member, to ask you two weeks later before you get to the three weeks, where we at.

Give me a progress uh report.

Because you you guys, um, you know, you accountants, you money people, so you know better than just saying I'll get to it.

So through the chair to the councilman, thank you for the question.

So, in terms of the invoicing process, we do have a tentative timeline.

So um, as you know, Jim mentioned, and I mentioned earlier.

Um, I've been, you know, throughout the holidays and the end of the year last year, I've been looking at demos and seeing what we can do to you know speed up our invoicing process.

So um, you know, these vendors are saying that in order to do a full implementation, um, because you're talking about banking transactions and and it's complicated.

We're gonna need to pull IT into this as well as other groups.

Uh they're talking about a six to eight month implementation.

So, in terms of timeline, I'm expecting to make a decision um within the next week or two as to which vendor is the best working with my team um and getting their feedback as well.

Uh, once that happens, then we'll go through the contracting process and come back to council, and then we will uh start the implementation, which should take six to eight months.

Um, just to be conservative, we expect this to be impl fully implemented by the end of the year.

Um, and just to give you another example, what we did with DocuSign, um, which was you know, cut our contracting time down from um you know six to eight weeks on average to about eight or nine days.

Um so docusign is completely revolutionized the way we do contracts, and I fully expect this to revolutionize the way that we get payments out.

Okay, and Mr.

President, when I mentioned spinning my I end up getting a lot of um dollars that I spent in the rear because we're maxing out at twelve hundred dollars.

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about and I and I understand, so stickers trying to tell me that we talk about personal.

I get that part that you're talking about.

Oh no, Ms.

Stiggers.

So through the chair to the councilman, um, during orientation, we did talk about the fact that council will be going talking with amongst themselves to raise your limit from twelve hundred to whatever you're gonna raise it to.

The the funds have been budgeted, but you all have to legislate changing the amount of your reimbursement.

That's on you.

But let me just let me just uh let you know that even though they're telling you that the invoices will be just uploaded and will get paid, but if you don't have the right documentation, they won't get paid.

So it it still follows policies and procedures.

So just just remember that caveat.

I know that.

But I know you know, but I just want to make sure that I say it out loud.

Oh, okay.

I got you.

I got you.

I got you.

Yeah, we're just uh I'm sorry about that.

We got a lot more operational conversations to have around that whole thing, okay.

And and let me can I clarify something so everybody can know.

Um we're talking about reimbursement of contracts, which is one thing.

We're talking about reimbursement uh or actually expenditures for services rendered, which is some of the things included in this.

And then there's when council members expend dollars, how do we get it back?

So these are three different things, and I think what we're doing is conflating and moving in and out of each one of those areas.

Um, so this legislation is about how does the city overall and council overall be able to utilize credit cards for services rendered.

So I just want to make sure that everybody understand that we're conflating some of the conversations, and that's why the operational orientation was important last week, because we went through great detail explaining that about how all those um operate.

I do understand and hear what Councilman Star is saying.

I mean, some places you go to in other cities, especially, um, they don't even take checks, they only take cards.

So there's they're moving towards a paperless system.

Some people are even moving away from cash.

So we do have to revamp and look at our systems.

However, to Miss Digger's point, no matter what system we go to, there's gonna have to be documentation and ink pre-encumbered um amounts that would have to be in place, even if we do move to a system, we're still gonna have to have some checks and balances around that.

So I just want to make sure we clarify that somewhat and um make sure everybody understand it, okay?

President and all due respect.

I know we need supporting evidence.

Never I have a receipt or whatever, and it and it's denied, I never do any pushback.

You have to have supporting evidence.

Oh it don't add up.

I don't want no troubles.

Councilman, when we had the audit when they gave us the audit about five years ago, you were one of the few people that didn't have an issue.

So you get it?

No, I'm so my point is we got we got it.

We do have to look at some electronic payment systems.

However, we need to make sure that they align with making sure that we have the supplemental documentation as needed to support the payments to remit the payments.

But on this, this is for services that they may need to move a little bit swifter.

So when we do um encumber the dollars, this gives them the ability to be able to pay for arbitration and some other things that don't reach that limit that it has to come back for legislation.

Okay.

Uh can I put you back on this on the table, Mr.

Star?

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Um I have Councilman Christopher Harsh and then Councilman Charles Slife.

Uh thank you, Mr.

President.

Um, pertaining to the legislation and following up on Councilman Plunsky's question regarding Huntington Bank, I believe they were rated outstanding with CRA in 2025.

Um, but Mr.

President, you did appoint me to be the city council representative to the CRA board for the city.

That board only meets the call of these chief financial officers.

So uh through the chair, sir, whenever you're ready to call that board, we'll get together and we'll review all of this because uh it is important.

Um, but uh uh I will just say for our friends at Huntington Bank probably watching right now, they've usually had a pretty good history with CRA compliance and and um it's one of the reasons why uh they're they're heavily favored.

Um to the uh issue that's not at hand though, Mr.

Chair.

I'm fully prepared to discuss the uh the operation side of this with all my colleagues I've reached out to everyone having a call those conversations with everybody to talk about how we do monthly expenses and all that jazz.

Thank you.

And I'm glad that you mentioned that uh Mr.

Harsh, you've taken an active role as far as uh operations chair, and these are the conversations that need to happen in those locations, um, so that we can make sure we isolate it the way it needs to be and have a thorough discussion over that, okay?

I have councilman Slifen and Councilman Starr.

Uh thank you.

And um, so just to circle back, it is it's policy that the credit cards are paid off every month.

There's is there anything in ordinance requiring that they be paid off every month?

Through the chair to the councilman, there's nothing in ordinance that requires it, uh, but it's obviously best practices and lowest costs.

So we've been doing this on a regular basis for the foreseeable past.

I'm not gonna propose uh a sloppy uneducated amendment, but I would like for that to continue.

And I don't think that we're opening the gates to using the credit card for every single expense.

That doesn't seem to be the intent here, but I don't want to create a scenario down the road where we are uh jeopardizing our ability to earn whatever points we might be earning at the sunglass hut or something.

I don't know.

Um as I looked through the legislation, um, I I did notice that that so it speaks to the different departments that have credit cards and the permissible items, but it does seem to sort of be customized to each department.

Like I think some departments are allowed to order uh food as long as it is within the bounds of ordinance or some are allowed to use uh registration uh fees uh for I would propose suppose like a conference or uh CU or something, but there doesn't seem to be consistency across the board, it's not a one-size-fits-all uh is but then there is this final one that just sort of says and every other expense of uh regular city expenses that can only be paid with a credit card, something to that end.

I'm not reading it verbatim.

I I guess my question is twofold.

One, if the arbitration has arbitration been paid for with credit cards under the justification that it's a recurring city expense that can only be used or paid for with a credit card.

In other words, is this is this helpful and and explanatory, but maybe not necessary because the ordinance already allows for necessary expensive to be paid with a credit card.

So through the chair to the councilman, I think it's important the reason that you have these different line items and the specifications is because we do want to have those guardrails there, and we do want to specify to the extent possible um what we're using the card for.

So I I think it is important to explicitly put in um just so there's no question um, you know, in the future that we can use you know the card for arbitration.

So I think that's the rationale.

We want to be as transparent and um specific on what we're actually using this for, and you know, that's why we're requesting the change in the language specifically for that.

And again, um going back to the reason for requesting this, it's you know, we've we've had a few vendors that have rejected check payments where we actually sent them checks and they said we're not cashing this and endangered our services, so we want to make sure that we have the ability to pay.

Thank you.

So then the second aspect of that would be should there be more consistency between the departments.

Like I think as I scrolled through, the line is registration, professional licenses, tuition or enrollment expenses for meetings, seminars, conferences, or retreats.

But I don't see that, and I see that language recurring, like this is under port control, but I didn't see it, I believe, under law or safety.

So should those be explicitly approved credit card expenses if the commissioner of EMS needs to go to a conference and needs airfare and things, or would that simply be under other ordinary and necessary expenses of the city in which a credit card is the only method of payment acceptable to the vendor?

Yeah, so through the chair to the councilman, I think again, um, you know, uh each of these cards is for different uses.

They're not all travel, it's not all cookie cutter.

And I think specifically we put the line items in there for each card to show what it can be used for uh as guardrails and to show specifically and to be transparent for what it's being used for.

For instance, you know, the card that's being used for the courts um is being used for different things and the the card we're using for travel and finance from you know the the card for port control and law, so very different things.

Uh, but we want to make sure that they're all outlined specifically what we're using it for.

Um, and that's why they're different.

And I don't think a cookie cutter really, unless you made it super general.

I don't think uh a cookie cutter approach is is the best approach here.

I think specifically showing what we're using the card for, like we we currently have in the ordinance is the best approach.

Okay.

Um and I I know I'm sort of beating a dead horse on this, but I guess what my point of curiosity is are there I don't want to duplicate councilman Casey's request, so Tina read my mind.

Um I would like to know.

So I'm looking at port control, there's A through F and then other ordinary and necessary expenses.

For each of the credit cards, I would be curious to see what expenses were used for the credit card that did not fall under the explicitly outline categories, but maybe fell within other ordinary and necessary expenses, purely for the purpose of trying to understand if we should edit more of this list, and if it's the case that someone in your office needs to go to a training and we're using it under ordinary and necessary expenses, should we just be putting that in as a line item within the body of the ordinance where it currently isn't?

Understood.

Okay, Tina, Tina's winking at me as if she understands what is rumbling through my brain right now.

So the chair of the councilperson, uh, we try to keep that ordinary, the last one on each of these, because as we are doing business with checks, then they all of a sudden just at the last second say you can't pay with this check anymore.

And when it becomes that they don't take checks, is when we kind of move this up to the list.

So this is kind of where we're at with law and arbitration.

Uh and for folks that don't have travel specifically mentioned, they go through the regular travel card, which is the finance one that Andre has.

Most people are encouraged throughout the administration to use the finance card through Andre.

Now they will have some, you know, I I obviously you see in here that they do use the card they have for some of their travel.

Um, but the default travel for the administration travel card.

Okay.

I will I I will stop, but my my my goal is is purely to extract that out and understand how we might need to make additional amendments to this existing legislation.

So thank you.

Thank you so much.

Um I have councilman starr, and then I have a couple of clarifying questions.

Councilman Star.

No, I just want to say thank you, Chair, uh, Council President, for your leadership um in regard to this.

You have one council members who have an account that we have money through the general fund in different accounts, whether it's casino funds, whether it's neighborhood equity funds, or rather it's just capital repairs or anything like that.

You have these accounts that's set up.

And you telling me that a system that we have in place currently means you got to do a proposal intake, then you got to do a proposal review with law, council staff and contracting department.

Then you got to get council to sign off.

Then you got to go to budget approval.

Then we're gonna draft the legislation, then we're gonna pass the legislation, then it go to a department for contracting, then it got to get contract certification with finance, and then you got to get law to sign off on it for us to get a dollar for us to get a dollar out the door.

That that process worked when it was a good process when it first was implemented.

But as the years go by, we find more problematic.

And then on the top of that, is another nonprofit entity who put up the money just to collaborate on good faith that they're gonna get their money back.

But meanwhile, we have an account where we see that we have a few hundred thousand dollars in there that we could say, how do we create a proposal intake process where it is reviewed by our lawyers to say that is this is a public purpose proper purpose that we can be actually use these dollars, and then we pass the legislation and get it signed out the door.

And at the end of the day, whatever else that is needed to be done, I think that is something that I'll definitely want us to talk more and figure out how do we streamline it because it's it's it's difficult.

You know, I'm dealing with a CDC that you know of, Council President, that has some financial hardship.

And some of the financial hardship is is 50-50, some things that they haven't completely did that they needed to do to get their money back reimbursed, and it's some things that we may have waiting on the finance or somebody else's contract because they need some paperwork sign.

So I'm just trying to say from our standpoint and under your leadership as well as um councilman Chris Harsh, how do we really look into a process that is legal that can make sure we have the right oversight instead of having 10 people look at something and next thing you know, we're talking about a 13 to 16 week, meaning if we want to do something for MLK week, we wouldn't have been able to do it because the city closed down.

You can't get nothing out.

That means you should have to plan it by August of last year, which is just it's just not helping with some of the goals that we are trying to accomplish.

And I'm and I look forward to us figuring it out and on more offline and figuring out what we can do with the legislatively to help streamline these processes under your leadership, council president, as well as um chairman um Chris Harsh as well.

Thank you, Councilman.

And um, I'm going to punt and make sure that councilman Harsh can have that further conversation in an operation setting.

I do want to make sure that everybody understands that that is a different process than this is right here.

So, but that is something that I understand.

And once again, in the operational um orientation last week, some of it was discussed.

Uh, but once again, councilman Harsh has agreed that he will look at our processes and see how we can come up with best practices.

Okay.

Um, I just want to make sure I ask a couple other questions.

Um, how much and what funding are is going to be used for this electronic invoice system?

What where's the funding source?

Where would it be from the general?

Um, what what line item would you be pulling this from?

And you know, trying to make sure I understand what funding source would be used to pay these bills.

Yeah, so to the council president, thank you for the question.

I think we're still trying to figure all that out.

I think we need to um we will have this discussion during budget hearings.

I think for now we want to see what products are out there.

There's a possibility there's there's a product that's wrapped up in our accounting system.

So um, you know, that may be the lower cost.

Uh, and if so, then we can leverage that.

Um, but there's also varying prices and varying uh products out there.

So I don't want to commit to what we're gonna have to pay and when.

Um, but we should have more information in a few weeks when we go to budget hearings, um, and and we'll be able to provide that.

And obviously, anything we bring or anything we decide on, we'll need to bring the council to you know do contracts and that sort of thing.

I really want to make sure we look at that because one of the things that I think is a broader discussion is that there has to be, you know, I know government doesn't always move at a rapid pace, but part of it is because there has to be checks and balances when you're dealing with the taxpayers' dollars.

Um, so I want to make sure that in our attempt to be more expedient, that we don't start skipping processes, and then I didn't have uh 14 other angry council members is to say, how did this get through without us being able to scrutinize it?

So I want to make sure that we you know keep that in place between the processes and the expenditures, what line item is coming from, because quite frankly, even though there may be some discrepancies in when we get our reports back for discretionary dollars, but there's also some discrepancies sometimes that we see between the alignment of the the finance department that we want to make sure we understand where this money is coming from.

Just the other thing I want to reiterate.

Services will only be paid for once there is services rendered, legislation is passed, contracts are agreed to, but no payments or anything will be done until certain things are in place.

I understand travel, but this still has to be justification.

And I forgot Mr.

Reynolds, it used to be what form did it used to be that everybody in the city used to have to fill out before they got approved for travel?

The PIF T E a T A.

I have a T E you have T T E T and T A.

So the T A is the travel authorization, the TE is the c income.

Oh, it's you have two of them, but so you still have to have some of those things in place before you actually pay anything out, that it has to be some checks and balances.

So I just think it's encumbered upon you guys to make sure that we understand the system.

Um, you know, so that we could be able to um make sure that we exercise our ability to do checks and balances.

Okay.

To the chair, I'm looking forward to that conversation.

Okay.

Um, I know we're moving towards a digital age.

I mean, I get it.

Um I was somewhere this weekend and they don't accept checks.

And to me, I like to keep checks because I track them easier.

Um, however, most people are moving towards a cashless system and a paperless system.

So we do have to examine some of these issues, but I do want my colleagues to recognize no matter which stream or items that we do, there's gonna have to be some level of uh remittance or some level of um pre-encumbrance before we could spend any dollar.

That's just that's just something that we're gonna have to do.

Uh so keep that in mind that even if we do move towards a cashless system, there's gonna have to still be some way that we actually have some checklists in place, okay?

All right.

Any other questions regarding this piece of legislation 1507?

Councilman Michael Pelican.

Thank you.

So, Mr.

Chairman, just briefly.

So at present now, um let's just say from finance, um, and I don't we don't have the budget book in front of us, where in the the is there specific line item?

That's why I just asked.

Yeah, well, yeah that's what I'm trying to do.

Yeah, so so through the chair to the councilman, we need to decide what direction we want to go before we can decide, you know, budgetarily like where we're gonna take that.

And like I mean, it's possible that the cost could be extremely low, and you know, it may be negligible.

I mean, we're we're still going through our options, and before we go through our options, I don't want to commit to where we're gonna pull funding.

And I mean, we're really, you know, we're kind of closing down on the on the provider, but we're we're still not there yet.

But it's can I get a clarification?

Because what she's saying is very important.

Yeah, got to track it.

And that's where I was going to make sure that we are able to track it.

He's on the he's pretty much elaborating on what I'm saying, but go ahead.

I mean, so I mean, like whether it be city council or whatever, um I would think there would be a line item, a dollar amount associated for credit card expense.

Oh, for the credit card.

Well, then how how how do you track it?

The way I'm seeing it right now, and that's that's the reason I asked that question, is because without having a designated line item, then you could say out of that 200, or let me just use a different, you could say that we use that credit card assigned to the department that has 10,000.

They might have spent 1,000 on travel, but then they might have spent 3,000 on a professional service contract.

So is that mean 3,000 would come from professional service and 1,000 would be from the travel budget, or would you have one designated line item in the budget that says this is all travel, I mean credit card expenses.

So through the chair to the councilman, I apologize.

We're having like three different conversations here.

So I was on the invoicing thing, uh, not the credit card.

So I'll let Mr.

Sorry.

Yeah, to the chair of the councilman, it it hits whatever the expense is.

So if it's travel, it's travel.

If it's office supplies, it's off the so you can't go to the budget book.

There's not any specific line, and the only thing you can look at is the charge statement.

So we get a monthly statement for each of these cards.

Um so if you look at the monthly statements, I mean, we could tally those and say, you know, courts use this much, council use much finance travel use this much on the credit card.

But like the proper accounting, it has to hit the what we got, so we can we can aggregate like how many office supplies we have, how much registration we have, so it hits all these different accounts.

But what you're telling us, Mr.

Chairman about colleagues, you have internal safeguards.

Is that you have the internal safeguards?

Yeah, through the trade of the council person, most of these are very low limits.

This isn't meant for people to go out and just buy a bunch of things.

It's it's primarily, I mean, these are like 5,000, 10,000 in total.

Um so it's it's meant for mainly things that have to be used electronically for payment, which a lot of things do, and things that just pop up that are very small in nature.

Yeah.

Uh and kind of like more of like an emergency year or something, but they're smaller.

Right.

So you're reassert you're reassuring all of us.

So if you show up with a driving a Lamborghini someday, we don't have to worry, okay.

That's right.

Okay.

That's right.

I don't have I don't have a card.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Just one just one more thing that I want to make sure that we that we are are looking at.

Um, if somebody pays a bill or somebody does a service, let's say we don't like the service that they provided for arbitration, or we feel that it's an exorbitant amount or something else like that.

What abilities do we have to either claw back or make somebody responsible if they don't pay the bill?

You get you guys understand what I'm asking?

Yeah, through the channel.

How do we um how do we hold somebody accountable if we don't get the service that we want?

Something pops up on whether it's fraudulent or we didn't like what we got and we didn't want to pay them, we just call them up, they reverse that charge, they put it in depute dispute status.

And we've had to do that when we've had some fraudulent charges or thing pop up on our car, like it kind of happens on people are you know, getting numbers and using them.

So if we see something, we're like, no, this isn't ours.

Uh, the chart the bank is very quick to uh reverse those and dispute those.

So this way is actually more safeguards and safer than if we were to remit checks.

In this case, yeah, because yes, because we could we can eat easily call the bank and they reverse it right away.

Yeah, to the to the chair.

I mean, this is the same reason why in general it's better to use your credit card than your debit card, because once the cash is gone, it's hard to get it replenished, but a charge can be disputed, and it's it's easier to dispute that than cash that's gone out the door.

I've learned that.

And then when you use your debit, that's almost saying that you're a cash, that's basically saying it's gone.

Whereas a credit card basically you can still back it up with things now.

Interest rates, does the bill, so now we'll be charged interest rates, right?

Or would that actually hit our bottom line?

So if we're looking at three, five or most cases nine point nine percent interest rate, even for a big organization.

Um, don't we have that that will be hitting our line item too, our budget too?

So to the council president, we pay it off monthly.

So you know if you have your personal credit card and you charge something, you basically get a grace period until your next billing cycle.

So we make sure that we pay it before the next billing cycle rolls, so there's no interest.

There's no interest.

Okay.

All right.

Any other questions for this piece of legislation?

All right, seeing other questions, uh, this ordinance number 1507-2025 as amended stands approved.

Thank you, sir.

Uh, I believe that is all the legislation today.

Uh, therefore, this committee uh finance diversity, equity, and inclusion is adjourned to the next call of the chair.

Thank you.