I'll wait.

Cartero.

Here.

All right, thank you.

All right.

This is what we're gonna do.

Um, before I bring everybody else up.

I'm going to um do the legislation first.

Hey, Francis.

How you feel?

This is to hear before you activists came in and start being activist, Francis was at Mills activist for a long time.

Well, now I don't want to put us like that.

But for a long time working in the community.

Um, what else?

And she was dealing with lead issues and health issues in the community, working hard, giving back to the community.

Um, didn't look to um anything in return whatsoever.

She would just help.

And at that time I was doing a fatherhood movement.

We were doing it in the same time that um Chris Harsh was out in the neighborhood as well.

Because he was battling lead.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And um, I'll I'll tell you something about Chris later.

Matter of fact, I can see it now.

He had me protesting in front of Sher Williams, the president of Sharon Williams' house.

He did, he did, he did.

A lot of houses and a lot of houses.

My neighborhood about battling with uh foreclosures and things like that.

And uh, he was with Acorn at the time, one of the biggest radicals around this guy right here, Maverick.

He's a Maverick.

But I like seeing um Um Francis.

Um so we'll do this legislation.

I have uh um after that, um, and then we'll move to the other agenda part.

And I'll have Carl Early here for about ten minutes.

I just want him to explain a beautiful program.

We'll go into the arts and then we'll come back into um to lead.

And I know about that piece.

Um I want to get with you on that, what was it three million dollars?

Is it from the state of Ohio?

We draft a letter to the uh I'll talk with you, and if we have to draft a letter to the governor or something like that.

And we will we'll go down and talk with him.

We won't we just won't lose it, man.

I mean, he's a good friend of mine, too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We'll text him.

Yeah, we'll talk afterwards.

I don't like losing.

So saying that, uh, ordinance number one zero three, twenty twenty-six have been approved by um the law the uh public health, that's your director, finance department, as well as director of law.

It's an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public health to apply for and accept one or more grants from Calgar County, invest in children program for the first year Cleveland to conduct moms first project service under the Invest in Children Partnership and first year Cleveland Partnership Programs and authorizing the director to enter into one or more contracts with various agencies, entities, or individuals to implement the grants, as I said earlier.

The health director, David Margolias, the finance director, as well as the law director approved this grant.

Now it's up to us, director.

Great, thank you.

So this is uh an acceptance spend legislation for moms first from two sources of funding.

First year Cleveland and the county invest in children.

And with me to my right to answer any questions is the commissioner of the division of health equity and social justice, Commissioner Lita Wills.

Um you do a good job, you know.

I'm gonna yield real quick.

And you got some fathers in this as well, right?

All right, we listen.

Good morning, uh Chair and Committee.

Uh as you're all aware, we receive several funding sources to support moms first, which is our healthy start program that's been happening uh for a number of years as uh the city's general fund as well as invest in children from Cuyahoga County, and first year Cleveland dollars stepped into fill a gap that was created when federal funds were slashed.

Uh maybe it's been 10 almost uh 12 years now.

Uh so they these three sources help to make up the rest of those funds to keep the program whole.

The program is a home visiting program for uh pregnant mothers, uh expectant mothers, their partners, fathers, uh family members, anyone who might be taking care of the child in the home.

Uh it's home visiting where uh uh each each family gets a dedicated community health worker that makes contact with them and comes out to visit up to two times a month, but also has other contacts with them, making sure the family has needed resources and referrals for services, making sure that uh prenatal uh uh medical appointments are kept and attended to, making sure that things like transportation are provided if necessary, clothing, equipment for the babies, um, lots of education throughout the pregnancy.

We stay with uh the family until the baby's 18 months old.

Um, and we're constantly cycling in new uh families, new moms, new babies uh with new uh healthy pregnancies uh that are um the eligibility is just that you live in Cleveland.

Um, and so we've been providing this program since 1998, and this is legislation that would allow us to continue to accept funds from Cuyahoga County and first year Cleveland to add to our uh overall program budget happy to answer any questions.

Trying to think what this is called where they evaluate to make sure the grants are on point.

Yes, uh audits, right?

Are you so no no no no no no no?

It's called a a different name.

And it's 501c3 not for profits.

They have uh they don't audit, they make sure things are on point.

Like a financial review, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kind of uh progress reviews constantly to make sure that we are meeting our benchmarks.

Sure.

Um I can through to the chair I can speak to that.

Uh all of our uh grant program funds uh with our funding sources require us to do uh quarterly and annual reports.

Uh they uh review our data in terms of the number of folks that are served and who participates.

They also take a look at uh how we're spending the money.

In addition to that, uh the fiscal team at the Department of Public Health also conducts audits, which they are just beginning a session with moms first, just to ensure that all of our um uh our uh compliance measures are being met.

That's what I'm looking at.

Compliance department.

Do we have a compliance department?

I don't know that we have a compliance department, but law handles compliance, but also each uh grantee and subgrantee.

Uh we manage the compliance efforts for our contracted agencies like Merrick House, first year Cleveland, or uh sorry, uh friendly and settlement house.

We make sure that we're reviewing their invoices properly.

We're they are required to report to us.

That's not what I'm looking at, that's not looking at with compliance.

You have um goals and objectives to meet programmatic compliance.

Right.

In every uh um grant that we receive.

And so compliance will make sure that uh because sometimes grants and um uh the goals and objectives can change on you, but that compliance department will make sure that we hit in our benchmarks and we reach our milestones and everybody is is there and the law department cannot do that because they're not experts to do that to the chair, yes.

The moms first uh project has internal staff that's dedicated to uh executing the projects and programs.

Uh so we have a data, an epidemiologist on moms first that tracks all of our data.

All of our agencies are required to report to us monthly uh regarding the folks that they see.

We have a uh uh uh protocol and procedure manual that they all have to follow so that we're giving the same program throughout the city.

Um we we uh the federal government refuse our reviews our data on a monthly basis as well, um, and all of that has to match up with how we're spending the money, right?

So our goals and objectives have to keep it so uh not only are we kept in compliance through our federal grant, but these two grants as well, invest in children through the county and uh first year Cleveland.

We all we have to report back to them.

So this is why we have to keep such tight measures on our compliance, not to mention the training that goes with with compliance, making sure that everyone knows what our compliance measures are and what they are held accountable to for sure.

Yeah.

And all of that gets compiled into an annual evaluation as well.

Is there a way we could have um alumni group when they graduate, you guys do what?

And then with the alumni group, you you bring in a fathers in there as well.

So uh right now we have something that's called the Civic.

It is a Cleveland Infant Vitality uh consortium that consists of uh interested parties, so some of our funders are at the table, but also the folks who work in within moms first or in other early childhood programs, but also uh people who are currently enrolled in moms first, dads and moms, and also alumni are a part of this grassroot effort to find um grassroots uh solutions to really social determinant of health issues that they know arose during their own pregnancies, during um uh uh ch pregnancies and and pregnancy issues throughout their communities.

So we're working on that.

Uh those folks stay engaged throughout, you know.

It's we're in our second year now of that particular access uh advisory group.

Uh we're more than happy to uh connect you with those folks to talk about how the program affected them.

We have a couple of um uh moms first alums who have gone on to become CHWs themselves.

We have I know one that has gone on to become a doula.

Um and so we are very much trying to keep in contact with people, but also to make sure that once their time in Moms First is finished.

If uh the family still needs help and resources, we have referrals that they go to the next level of that uh in-home support um or uh throughout the course of their time in moms first, they also get a lot of um opportunities in terms of being able to enter job training, being able to enter educational programs, um, along with uh the education that we do and outreach around their their physical health during their pregnancy.

We are also looking at those other aspects of life as well.

I want to have me uh invite me to the graduation.

All right, and you guys are working with the fatherhood group, yes.

Camp for dads.

The boot camp for dads uh typically the hospital connects the family to that.

We have a fatherhood program of our own, which I know you know Ronald White uh of the Transparency Project.

He is the person that handles our uh fatherhood education program.

Uh and so every person that comes into moms first gets a referral for the fatherhood program.

Mom and dad do not have to be in a relationship to for dad to have those services as well.

And so uh all of our sites refer to uh the transparency project's fatherhood program.

That's very important.

Uh engaged now yield a uh council member harsh.

What happened to the mobile we used to have?

We were talking about giddy getting director.

Through the chair, we have two mobile units.

And we've um Yeah, they're they're out in the community.

They've been in Glenville, um, run through uh several divisions of the the health department and and doing great work.

We have this program with them as well.

Absolutely.

Yep.

We walk or whatever, direct, we'll see the um oh yeah.

The health mobile.

All right.

And the these mobile units don't do great in the cold, it turns out.

No, they don't do great in the code in the code at all.

It would be nice if we could um kind of we have someone grab a jobs board and and and put that right in the in the mob in the in the health mobile build as well, because jobs is is correlated in jobs when you get it put people to work is therapeutic.

That's very very important.

So if we can have that in there, that's there.

I want to yield to um Councilman Harsh.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh I'll be very brief.

I uh I think I shared this story the last time uh moms first was at the table, but I it bears repeating.

Um I uh this program warms my heart.

I'm I'm very, very proud of it as a as a resident of Cleveland and as a legislator to vote for it.

Um my wife delivered our our youngest son at Metro Health Hospital about 10 years ago, and there was a young lady in the room next to us who unfortunately didn't have any family uh visiting her, and she didn't have a guy coming in, and she was pretty much there by herself.

Um but the only person that well, I'm not the only person, the hospital staff is obviously very good.

Uh but the only visitor she had uh was moms first.

And I know that because they came into our room and we were like, hey, third kid, we're all good.

You know, we've we've we've been through this.

Um, but I know that they spent a lot of time with her and were there for her uh when unfortunately nobody else was.

So that always will will stick with me forever.

And I think it's a really really good thing that we are able to do this for the residents of Cleveland.

Um I'm very proud to support this piece of legislation and the good work of moms first.

So thank you, Mr.

Chair.

That's great.

That's fantastic.

There's no question involved.

Yeah, you gotta see it, man.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, through the chair, um, I have a question.

Does the program include um in-home support for breast breastfeeding mothers, in particular uh black and brown mothers who have historically faced systemic and historical barriers to breastfeeding?

Through the chair, uh to the councilwoman, yes.

Uh there is extensive um breastfeeding education that happens, uh, but also connection to resources.

Uh there are in-person classes that they can um attend, uh, but also just that having that support and that coaching.

Uh we also uh have used uh in the past an app that uh women can can utilize to kind of help encourage them, but also kind of track uh their progress with that.

We also uh make that a part of our outreach and education just in general, in terms of public health messaging around breastfeeding.

And so, yes, that's a that's a pretty large thrust uh in terms of the outreach that we do and education that we do and support for moms and families.

Thank you for that.

It's it's very important.

You know, I I breastfed both of my children, and I know that um if you don't have the the community or the familiar support, um, you know, often you're you know you're you're floundering once you get home.

So the in-home support is is crucial.

Through the chair, I would also add that we also make sure that every mom has a breastfeeding kit because the uh materials that you need uh to be able to do that successfully sometimes are prohib cost prohibitive or inaccessible, so we just make sure that that's gifted uh to them.

Amazing, thank you.

And we have the um the fatherhood conference.

Reach out to Al Grimes.

Yeah.

Are you a guys a part of it?

Have you ever been a part of the uh fatherhood conference?

Our fatherhood uh to the chair, our fatherhood coordinator attends it, and I believe uh several uh moms first programmatic workers have attended in uh the our our internal city of Cleveland staff.

Uh I'm sure you remember least Lisa Matthews, um, and then our our internal programmatic staff have attended and sometimes presented, depending on you know what's asked of us.

Okay, great, great, great.

Councilmember Shaw.

Good morning, thank you, Chair.

Um I appreciate everyone's time here today.

Uh I had just a few quick questions to the director through the chair.

Uh I see here that we have the 2024 numbers and how many uh babies were served and families who are served.

Do we have the 2025 numbers?

Through the chair, not just yet.

Uh uh infant uh health records are tend to be a bit staggered, especially the more infant mortality rate, and so it takes a couple of months for that to get compiled, and we just got into February.

Um, but we are working on that, and then also we are uh preparing our annual report for our programmatic numbers in terms of how many births we had, how many uh moms and dads were served, how many babies were in the program, even if they weren't born in this year.

Um, and so that will be uh available in a few weeks, we expect.

Okay.

No, I mean the the numbers themselves are you know quite impressive.

And um from my understanding from the legislation um to the director through the chair, this is for accepting the grants.

Um does the city itself fund this program?

Yes, yeah, we I think we authorized that legislation with with you all in December.

No wonder.

It all feels very deja vu.

Yes.

And how much was the city portion?

Uh through the chair, the city portion is I believe it's upwards of 450,000 uh annually.

And the like I said, the numbers, you know, 196 babies born in 2024 that were supported, 691 participants, including mothers, fathers, and infants and their families.

How does intake exactly work?

Do we have people that we have to turn away because of a lack of funding or resources?

Through the chair, not typically uh through a lack of funding.

If we've ever had to turn anyone away, it's either that they don't live in the city of Cleveland, and in which case we're not saying we're turning them away.

We will service their immediate need and then hand them over to uh organization called Bright Beginnings that does this same type of uh referral process uh and uh service throughout the county.

Um on a rare occasion if we are full, like our our maybe we have a couple of CHW vacancies, and so uh we may have to pause, but that's uh been rare.

Uh we do have a couple of vacancies right now at our Merrick House location that are being filled, but uh each CHW carries um a minimum caseload of 30 at any given time, and so we're we're pretty um adept at uh taking on new folks.

The the process is uh they uh people can self-refer, they can be referred by their hospital, they can be referred by other community service organizations, and basically usually they call in, but they can also sign up on our our website.

Um, but those are all taken off by uh one of our our administrators who takes a look at the information and decides which where is the best place to refer.

And when I say best place to refer, I mean that um moms first is uh provided in partnership with several community agencies throughout the city.

So if it is a um central east side uh resident, they're probably gonna get referred to friendly and settlement.

If it's west side, it's probably gonna get referred to Merrick House, um, and trying to make sure that we're uh coupling them with someone who's gonna be closest to them, although um it is home visiting, so we go where they are.

That makes sense and I appreciate the answers.

You know, I was wanting to make sure that if there is room for the city to increase, I mean this is such crucial work, and we shouldn't be turning away any families or children.

Um this I generally don't like to use the word investments when it's about people, but you know, these are investments in the future of Cleveland, so it's important.

Um just my final question is regarding the uh pay scale for case managers.

I see they're pay being paid 24 dollars an hour.

Is that correct?

Yes.

And is that on average, does that meet what the private sector is offering to individuals?

Are we seeing turnover because of the pay?

Through the chair, uh about two, it's been about three years now that two and a half years that uh the program overhauled its minimum pay uh recommendation again.

This is the minimum.

Are we contract with our agencies through using these grant funds through contracts?

Uh if their organization has a different pay scale that requires us to make that uh increase or we do that, but that's the minimum.

I believe uh right around COVID.

Uh you'll remember that uh minimum wage of $15 was progressive right after COVID, not so much.

We realized during COVID the value of a community health worker.

Uh at the time that we um increased those uh case manager and community health worker minimum hourly wages.

Uh at the time that we did that about two and a half years ago, that put us on par with the hospital systems, and I believe we were above the average was 18 at the time, but it's been a couple of years, so we will be reviewing that as well.

No, that's great.

Thank you for the answer.

And yeah, I think I would just urge, yeah, we make sure we keep an eye on that to help prevent turnover and of course support the people that are doing the work on the ground.

Thank you for your time.

Put together this uh would you finish counsel?

Okay.

Who put together the detailed budget and narrative?

I like seeing things like this.

A lot of times when people come to the table, they don't give you they don't show you the numbers or any outcome measures or progress reviews, but you have this in here, so when people, if they read it, you see this.

And you have when they're gonna hit the um certain milestones, you have the salary rate, the level of effort effort.

Which is good.

Yeah.

Um council member Joe Jones.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

To the group, good morning.

Looking here, um my I guess my question would be um.

The numbers, the immortality numbers.

Do we have those?

After my last uh presentation at the table, I believe it was uh in December.

Uh no, it was January.

I take that back.

I you did ask some for some broken down rates, and I sent those uh through your administrator uh with uh infant mortality rates that you requested back to 2017 by ward, and so I had sent those uh about a week after my last appearance, so you should have that information.

Um who did you say you sent them to?

To Iba Coon and uh uh the uh second administrator.

Well, you didn't send them to me.

And so if you could be so kind to send them to me, I am on the my email is on all of the brochures.

If you could be so kind to send them to me, I'd be so appreciative of that.

It's uh Joe Jones at Cleveland City Council.gov.

If you could send that information to me, that would be appreciative.

Uh uh, I I want to go into really drilling down on this issue because it's still a major issue for our neighborhood.

Our citizens are concerned about it.

Councilman Joe Jones, I'll make sure you get it, but you you know what you have to do for me?

Do the chair.

Mr.

Chairman.

If you don't go through the chair, you leave me out of it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

All right, Mr.

Chairman to the distinguished lady, I'd appreciate it if I could get that information.

Um I came here and Mr.

Chairman in 2017, 2018.

And this issue of infant mortality, and it's still a major issue for African Americans in my community.

And the numbers were so dismal, unfortunately, for our country, for this great nation to have African American women suffering in such a way where we were worse than third world countries in the Lee Harbor Ward 1 neighborhood.

I had never seen anything quite like it.

And so I wanted to get a chance, Mr.

Chairman, with all disrespect with all due respect for the distinguished lady.

Um, if I could compare and contrast those numbers, how have we improved would be the next question, Mr.

Chairman, uh, to the distinguished guest who knows those numbers, how have we improved?

Through the chair, uh I understand uh I will ensure that those are sent directly to you, although uh my instruction when sending anything to council is to send them through the designated uh council staff that is to send them to all of you, but I will happily send that to you.

How have we improved?

Uh well, we're a far cry from seeing rates of 24 or 28 infantality rates uh uh in in our city, but uh they do the numbers do fluctuate.

We're we've been hovering around uh 13 or 14 uh uh per percent poor per 1,000 births uh each year.

Uh sometimes we get as low as nine.

Uh within the mom's first program, we hover around four or five.

Sometimes it can go as high as six.

The reason why we have these fluctuations, and you'll see it when you see that year-to-year comparison.

Uh we're talking about relative relatively small numbers, and when we amplify to look be able to look at a rate, we're looking at uh deaths per one 1,000 uh live births.

Uh what that boils down to is we are obviously not having that many deaths in every ward.

Last year, uh I believe, or I believe the last full year that we have, we don't have the 2025 number yet, was uh a whole number of 52 birth uh deaths across the city of uh babies before they reach their first birthday.

What that breaks down to is less than 10 in each ward, and so even one will make that rate go uh, you know, a huge uh percentage higher.

And so uh it's you have to kind of keep that in perspective.

Where we've improved is in uh understanding the problem, understanding who is uh most at risk and making sure that we're able to put resources in place.

We've improved in terms of education, not just for social service providers, but for medical providers, for hospital systems, for our managed care providers, for Medicaid providers to understand that just by virtue of uh being pregnant and being a black woman, you are at risk, right?

Um, and so being able to tackle the problem on this large scale and pull every factor in place to say this is what we need to do.

This is this is why we monitor it so closely.

Um, this is why infant deaths are investigated.

Um we know that uh prematurity is the largest cause of of uh infant mortality, and so being able to do what moms first is doing.

If I could amplify moms first so that everybody got it, I would.

You know, I think that's because we can see that we're the care that we provide is able to reduce that number.

And so um I would say that being able to stabilize moms first from any blows that we've had with regard to funding so that we can continue to our footprint is how we improve.

Mr.

Chairman, you know, it it would my suggestion would be that we would have maybe um our guest here give us a presentation on it uh overall.

I know that we're sitting here, want to make sure I'm clear on what we're doing in terms of this particular legislation, Mr.

Chairman.

But it would be good to have a presentation on the issue so that the viewing public and those who are interested in the subject have a better clear grasp and understanding of what the fundamental issue is and why we're actually here funding this particular program.

So you know what?

I hear what you what you're saying, councilman.

Um have you to come up and to present and what you're narrowing also?

I sit back and I listen.

Your numbers might show 50, but if you didn't do it, it might be 250.

And since you're doing prevention, it gives people a chance to understand better.

I was listening to you narrated.

Uh to the chair, uh, can I tell them what we talked about?

Uh after uh my last uh presentation here at uh Health and Human Services and Arts Committee got with our my uh partner commissioner, uh Commissioner Mills, who's over our health division and has done extensive work in this area as well.

And we thought it would be great if we including uh infant mortality, including lead, if we got together and prepared an annual report for council that would show you all of those rates and all of the data that you need to know by ward, but also allow us to come and present to you uh about what are those efforts, what efforts are going on behind each of those issues, and so maybe we would be covering like five major health issues uh in Cleveland.

But I I feel uh and Commissioner Mills and I have discussed this, she feels the same way, that it would be helpful if on an annual basis your public health department is able to present to you the updated stats, but also uh the efforts that are going on, and also talk about any policy and advocacy areas that you need to be aware of yourselves as council members.

Um, and so we're preparing uh uh to getting ready to put together a report that we would present to you, but we would be happy to come and chat through those issues uh in person with counsel if you'll allow us.

I just did this through your floor.

It is not talk about mortality, moms first is only a piece of the pie of the whole network of individuals.

In November, we were here with first year Cleveland to talk about funding for that program, which is sort of the coordinating uh entity that works with all of the programs, all of the doula programs, all of the hospital programs as a funder, but also as an innovator and a planner in terms of what we want to do with Medicaid, what we want to do from a county perspective.

And so when we say let's have a conversation about infant mortality, we need first year Cleveland, we need the doula programs, we need the hospital programs all at the table at the same time so that you can see how they all work together, because nothing happens really in isolation.

If we say how are things better than it was since the inception of first year Cleveland, the system has completely changed.

So when we say that is not just mom's first, mom's first was the flagship program for infant mortality since 1994, and so exponentially we have gotten better, even though the rate fluctuates, things are so much better than they were in 2016 when we first started.

So, Commissioner, let's let's um we do it in April.

April is minority health month.

Put your numbers together, and we do it there, maybe presentation here, or we do an event program or something like that.

That way we'll move it forward.

Um chairman, um, looking at um this piece of legislation here, just want to make sure I'm clear here.

Is it how much is the total for it?

And I see a couple of different numbers.

Chair total amount that we are at the chair, there are two sources of funding, so it's up to 900,000 uh from first year Cleveland and up to $600,000 from investing children, which is the county over two year period for both of the members.

The city of Cleveland matches at 400.

So what's the total so go for it?

Through the chair, we are at uh I believe it's 1.9 million if you include the federal healthy start grant, which is uh one point two uh per year, which is one point two, one million per year.

A great job.

Um we'll add that in when we do what we do.

Yes.

So the this is a citywide program, and um mom's first uh is and want to make sure I heard that right.

Mom's first has been in existence since 1994 through the chair, yes, and I believe we got healthy start funding for the first time in 1998.

1998.

And then you talk about in the program, and just and you don't have to go into depth, but these would be things that I would want to know would be you say you improve the woman's health.

So what does that mean?

Um the second question I would have is improving the family's health, how so that would be a question I would like to know about.

And um, if you want to say something, Mr.

Chairman, to the director about it now, that's fine.

But if you want to to give it to me later in a in a piece, that'd be fine too.

We have time constraints right now.

Sure.

And so that Mr.

Chairman, one of the things that's really important to me is really fundamentally understanding how this program really works.

And um, you know, again, you know, what is the cause?

So, Mr.

Chairman, I would I would ask the question what's causing infant mortality to be what it is in the city of Cleveland, and in particular in my area.

Can you do me a favor also when you um narrated to him?

Councilman, he has community meetings also, and um to his um to his board.

Of course.

Uh do you mind and Joe does a great job.

It's packed.

These community meetings are packed.

You would bring a lot of resources.

Is that right, Councilman?

You know it.

The the issue though is if the distinguished lady, Mr.

Chairman, because we're finna pass off a lot of money at this table and um allow for accepting of these grants, if she could at least give me some causes.

Through the chair, as I stated before, the uh number one cause of infant mortality uh here in the city of Cleveland is premature birth and low birth weight.

And so what combats that is uh prenatal care and uh a number of of uh supports in terms of whether it is um uh economic supports, uh things like transportation, nutrition, food, but anything that reduces toxic stress on the mother and on this pregnancy.

Uh, how do we improve uh the family's health, the mom's health, number one, by making sure she's connected to uh prenatal care and getting uh her physical health uh getting to and from those appointments, making sure that they're happening, making sure that doctors' recommendations are taken, making sure that she is aware of her nutritional needs.

We use a curriculum called Partners for a Healthy Baby out of Florida State.

We've used it for a number of years.

Uh that takes uh mom uh every visit that we have to her in her home includes an educational appointment component, things like smoking cessation, uh ridding your house of smoking, uh that's another uh uh uh cause of damage to uh pregnancy and damage to newborns is smoking in the home.

Um making sure that we're connecting with resources for additional nutritious foods, for uh formula if that's necessary, uh, making sure that we are um uh understanding safe sleep.

So, Mr.

Chairman, to the distinguished lady, I appreciate that.

So basically, it sounds like it's an educational situation too.

The major, major part of this is education, making sure that young people who are in school do the school do a better job.

I now I hear resources too, so I see you, director.

If you want to jump in, you can to help me out here.

Um, but what we want to try to figure out, Mr.

Chairman is grabbing the bull by the horn and pulling him down to the ground.

Uh we live in probably one of the most powerful, prosperous nations on the planet.

It's nowhere in the world that that in the African American community, we should be struck so hard.

Um, and um hit right between the eyeballs on this issue.

And so it's one that's critical to me.

And um, and I know that education, because I had to ask some people some questions about this before I even got here to the table uh about it.

So um knowing the cause and being able to go straight to the root, um, and it seems like it's multiple.

A lot of it seems like it's economy.

So, Mr.

Chairman, to the director.

Through the chair, yeah.

Education, it just always seems like it's blaming the folks, and I know you're not intending to do that, and so it really is the system, and we're working hard to dismantle the system that that is creating these outcomes.

And um, so yeah, thank you for your interest, and we'll take you up in your offer to come back in the back.

Um, do we have problems with our local hospitals in the city of Cleveland as it relates to infant mortality through through the chair and how they treat black women?

Through the chair, uh I think there are two two problems.

One that absolutely there are there are problems with with uh the health care systems that uh they're treating black people different than than white people.

The second part is the workforce.

When you look at doctors at our health care systems, uh they don't look like uh the folks who live in Cleveland who are coming to their own.

Mr.

Chairman, maybe we need to bring the hospitals here at the table to talk about how they treat black women, and um that's critical.

And Mr.

Chairman, we we you know they get you know, uh they don't pay no taxes, and every time they come to our table, we always give them free land, free space, and everything else they can have councilman.

Oh, I'm I'm sorry, Mr.

Chairman.

But I just want to put, you know, I'm not the type of person to want to waste time.

So let's bring them here at this table and let's talk about how they treat black women, because that's part of it.

And and Mr.

Chairman, again, we are one of the strongest powerful nations on the planet.

We shouldn't have racism, as the director said in the institution issue, um, as relates to health care in our country.

And and I can't even begin, Mr.

Chairman, to tell you how many other issues there could be lingering here uh if we just grab this one uh by the tail and pull it down.

We're gonna bring them in in uh in April to look at uh mom's first.

And I'm gonna let you know I'm not afraid of none of them.

You have to speak truth to power.

And if you don't streak speak that truth to power, we'll be sitting here again.

If they started this since 1994, I don't want to be here in 2015.

I agree with you.

And and 30, 40, 50, 60 years talking about the same thing.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Councilman.

Thank you.

With that, um There's no objections, ordinance number 103.

2026 have been approved.

All right, so we're gonna do 10 minutes uh per person.

So we did 10 minutes.

Davis.

Cowwell and Griffin by departmental request.

It's an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public health to enter to a lease by way of concession with neighborhood health care inc.

Uh neighborhood family practice for the public per purpose of providing medical and clinical physician service at the community health center at 2358 Professor Avenue for a term of one year.

Ordinance number 32 2026 have been approved by the public health director.

That's you, director of finance as well as the director of um law.

Director.

Thank you.

Through the chair uh with me to my right to answer any questions is Andrea Lyons, who's the chief of staff among other titles for neighborhood family practice.

Um and so neighborhood family practice has been uh operating in this location at 2358 professor uh for a few decades.

And with this legislation, they will be permitted to stay at least for one more year as they figure out what their future holds.

Background history.

Give us some background history of um your building, and you have a building, is that correct?

And my neighbor it's in your neighborhood count.

Give me the post, yeah.

All right, I maybe talk about it too.

You are I I want to know more about councilmember Joe Jones, so what I'm voting for, and and I don't know where let her do the background history.

Um good morning, uh, Mr.

Chair.

So neighborhood family practice is a federally qualified health center, and we have been in existence for 45 years in Cleveland.

And the site that is on Professor Avenue is was our second site.

It we've been there since it's oh close to 30 years.

And so what we do as an organization is we provide primary care, behavioral health, and other integrated health care services to those who are navigating poverty.

We, as a federally qualified health center, are governed by HERSA, and we get a grant to do that.

So that site is one that, yes, is in um one of your uh council members' wards.

And um, so yes, so that's who we are, that's what we do, and we're really proud of what we do in the city of Cleveland.

You're gonna invite me to come tour so I get a chance to yeah we'll get lunch after.

It'll be good time to the chair.

Hey, good beings, man.

Well, um, I'll come out to see.

I never I might visit um, I might visit you guys, but probably forgot whatever the case.

I see, because right.

I don't just do Glenville, I'm about to hold really the county.

And uh and we'd be happy to tour you at any of our sites, Mr.

Chair.

Uh through the chair to the established to the uh assembly here.

Thank you for being here.

Um NFP's been a great neighbor for the Tremont community for 30 years.

It's my understanding that there's some you know envisioning of what the site might be next.

Uh, and just so for the uh council members reference, this is a city-owned building.

We own this building, and we lease this building out to NFP to provide essential community services to Tremont and the surrounding neighborhoods.

Uh, my understanding also is that this Tremont site serves a majority of folks who drive in from uh particularly the east side, but also uh from across the city and region.

So thank you for making us a hub.

Uh as your mission continues to evolve and you consolidate space.

My understanding, I think it's Clark and Fulton is the next uh big investment for you guys, and thrilled to see that we should take a tour of that one.

That's the real deal.

Um but let's do both better lunch options and professor.

That's my my big pitch.

Um we'll we'll be excited to see where we can collaborate on any future uses, but for this next one year period, very excited to see uh your folks are gonna continue to call Tremont home.

And we're happy through the chair to consider that a home with this one year extension.

Any questions?

Because I'm coming out.

Anyone want to visit the site with me?

I'll visit it with you.

All right, cool beans.

We'll we'll grab this.

Did you a part you probably already been there, right?

Yes.

Okay.

So we're shots there.

You don't used to, but yeah.

Okay.

So, you know, I have I don't have any questions because I want to come and I'm not, I don't get into beating people up or things like that.

I try to seek to understand what's you know what's going on.

Uh any questions or ordinance number one nineteen?

Chairman.

Six.

And I'll write you down.

No question.

Just wanted to briefly remark.

I I actually uh was served at my primary care provider through NFP and really appreciated um y'all do a wonderful job in making sure that immigrant populations are also provided and have the access that they deserve.

Um I know that is especially true in my uh ward in the neighboring ward, so thank you and appreciate the work y'all do.

The chair, thank you for those comments.

Councilman.

Councilman Jones.

Uh Ms.

Chairman, um, this is just for one year.

Yes, through the chair, correct.

And and the City of Cleveland uh facilitates uh taking care of the actual building itself.

Through the chair is correct.

See.

And then what is do we have it's just we're not charging for this, is that correct?

Correct.

I see.

So I just think that's wonderful.

So the types of services that are being offered out of here, out of the building.

I saw some of them.

What are some of the other issues?

Because I I really like the fact that you're doing uh cancer screening.

Um what type of cancer screening are you doing?

Is it just one type or is it multiple types?

Through the chair to the councilman Jones, we do various cancer screenings, including mammography, colorectal, and uh many others, and we have been recognized by third parties for leading in our outcomes on those measures, in particular for black patients.

That's beautiful.

Um it it's really something to um be able to have a system.

So if if if I wanted to um uh Mr.

Chairman to the director, uh do we offer any of these screenings?

And uh I know that you said there was other facilities that may be near the the Lee Harvard area or in that zone, where will we go if we wanted to get familiar type of uh screenings like that?

Through through the chair, yeah, that's a that's a great question.

So University Hospital, um Cleveland Clinic, uh Neon, Care Alliance, um, and then soon uh neighborhood family practice is going to have their first east side location opening up and about a we will say about within 12 months.

Okay.

Okay.

So so right now, if a if a person in my neighborhood wants to go and get screening, they'd have to go to the hospital.

Um then or they may have neon.

No, through the chair, uh the health centers that university hospitals and and Cleveland Clinic operate a number of standalone health centers in the community.

Um but I can assure you that neighborhood family practice, if you had a building that would make a good future health center, um, that they would definitely love to meet you there at that site and and see what's possible.

Well, I would love to do that.

Okay.

Um and and so right now the services, Mr.

Chairman, are they free?

Through the chair, neighborhood family practice offers um a sliding fee scale as what for those who are underinsured or uninsured.

We also accept all forms of insurance, including Medicaid, Medicare, and private insurance.

Medicaid being our largest insurer for our patients.

I see.

So I would love to work with you.

I know that we do have uh Oak Street Health.

Um I'm not you know, I don't know if I can compare, but maybe you could sit down and we can talk about that.

Um I think that we have another facility this I and I know we do have neon in our border at 131st Street, but I'm not sure, you know, what else we have over there.

Are you familiar, Mr.

Chairman, to the director, if we have any other agencies or organizations similar to the distinguished guests we have at the table in in that area?

Through the chair, I'm I am a big fan of neighborhood family practice, and so I I think that you all should have this conversation about potential.

Right, but do we have Mr.

Chairman to the director a location like them and near that where I can tell my folks to go to?

That was the question, Mr.

Chairman, to the director.

Through the chair, I I think neighborhood family practice is unique and they are not yet in ward one.

They're not in ward one.

Do we have anybody near them so I could send them unless I have to send them to Tremont?

Can I send them to Tremont?

And through the chair, I will say that our Tremont services are start are transitioning to Clark Fulton neighborhood.

So that is happening.

And we are asking for this extension so we can figure out a future use for the I will say, Mr.

Chairman, um, to the director, uh, the Lee Harvard area has some poor black folks too.

And we need to have services over there to help those people.

And we have a lot of senior citizens who don't have services, and we have a lot of people who may not have transportation.

So our neighborhoods have unfortunately over the years have been weakened, and our communities are not as strong as they used to be.

So we also need to have those kinds of services, Mr.

Chairman, to the director.

So as you look to move to do something over in our area, I would love to participate with you, but I'm here to advocate for the Southeast side of the city of Cleveland who do not have those type of services right now.

And so if we could get that, Mr.

Chairman, to the director moving that ball down the road, um, I would be very interested in trying to get with you as soon as possible, because we got a number of projects, Mr.

Chairman, and we would love to have you be a part of our new developments.

You're gonna be with us with council member um Davis and I, and that way you'll be able to advocate.

Do you guys do outreach as well, like to Glenville and um the other um communities?

Uh uh, Mr.

Chair, we do have community outreach.

So we have folks that go out and let folks know in various communities, east and west side that we're there and happy to serve.

And you know, you know what I want you to do for me.

We have uh uh have you ever seen our newsletter letters?

Yes, I have.

So, Joan Mezzaline, have you ever met her?

I can't that say that I have.

So um, let me see.

Got a TH.

We'll we'll get you in the newsletter so you can do the outreach with Councilman Joe Jones is talking about.

So that way, because everyone needs it.

All right, and that'll help out.

And when I go out there, thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

And anything I can do um to help you, especially dealing with colon cancer.

I'm there 100%.

You know, I have a band and we play for free, and with our band play for free for dealing with breast cancer or colon cancer, anything dealing so that when we come in, we play, we we good, we're pretty good.

I've seen you, and it's great.

And so when we come in, so what we do, we'll come in and instead of giving us 1500 or 2,000.

You know what you know what we do?

We say you keep the money and you put it towards your cause of dealing with colon cancer or breast cancer or variant cancer, and then we go and we play for free.

And we we come on time, we pack up, and then we're gone.

We're gonna have to do other gigs elsewhere, but that's our way of of uh you know giving back.

So I'm there, especially I am a survivor.

God bless me.

I was 3B colon cancer, 3B.

He blessed me to survive.

And um, when you when he mentioned it, I went back and looked at it.

I'm there, and he even went and affected my pancreas and everything.

So that's me.

And he in the blessing business, so I have to give back.

So I'm there 100% to help when I come in and whatever we gotta do to help out with money.

So that's where you at with me.

Thank you.

And a whole nine yards.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

All right.

Any um other kind of touch me up with that.

Um we we'll be there 100%.

Any other questions or ordinance number 119 20?

All right, stand approved, we're moving forward.

Yeah, I got yeah, yeah.

I'm just touched.

I'm touched.

Yeah, man.

You have yep, yep.

It that was some rough time, and chemotherapy, all of that.

So um ordinance number 32, 2026, stand approved and move forward.

All right.

Yeah, but when you go back to touch when you touch other things, um harsh, man, and uh, because I'm human.

When you do that, it brings back uh uh memories, man.

It's the guitar players that can lose time.

We can wander off on our own in the middle of the song.

That's right, that's right.

You gotta keep it, man.

I know what you're saying, you gotta keep that groove, man.

You gotta keep that groove, that groove is important.

We gotta do that.

So Tia, um, she'll she'll get you in my doors are open.

Umrdance number 119, 2026 by Councilmember Conwell and Griffin by Department of Request.

It's an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of public health to apply for and accept a grant from share our strength to conduct food access navigators program under cultivating Cleveland Next Generation Project and authorizing one or more contracts with the E66 Street Service elements of internal movement, internal pool, and implement the grant.

Ordinance number 119 2026 have been approved by the health director, finance director, as well as the director of law.

Thank you.

Through the chair, thank you.

Um proud to introduce to you our local food systems strategies coordinator, Zayna Pixler, who is in the division of health under Commissioner Francis Mills, and she's gonna give some brief remarks about this piece of legislation that's an acceptance spend for grant.

Thank you, Director, and thank you, Chair and Council People.

Good morning.

It's a pleasure to be here to introduce myself, my work, and this opportunity we're gathered here to discuss today.

As the director mentioned, I'm the city's sole local food system strategies coordinator, and in this role, I work to dismantle food apartheid and promote food sovereignty.

A food system encompasses how food is produced, processed, distributed, and even how waste is managed.

And in my work, I collaborate across city departments to refine our policies while supporting the grassroots food justice movements led by residents throughout our neighborhoods.

This involves a comprehensive approach to our local food landscape from strengthening retail outlets like farmers markets and food cooperatives to expanding urban agriculture through our farms and gardens.

At its heart, this is about working alongside residents, particularly our youth, to build a food system in which they can truly thrive.

One of the programs I have the honor of supporting is Cultivating Cleveland's Next Generation, which is a youth workforce development program rooted in food justice and civic engagement.

It's designed to encourage young people to lead and co-create.

The Share Our Strengths, No Kid Hungry campaign grant will allow us to expand this mission by hiring youth food access navigators.

Through the funding sub-awarded to two local grassroots organizations, we will employ four of these navigators.

These young people will learn the intricacies of the recent changes to the SNAP program and deploy throughout the city to ensure their neighbors are connected to critical food resources, including SNAP.

By empowering these youth navigators, we are doing more than just sharing information.

We are ensuring that eligible residents can successfully navigate the federal nutrition programs that they deserve, led by the very generation that will sustain Cleveland's food future.

Thank you for your time.

I'm happy to answer any questions.

And the age is from what range?

Generally 14 to 24, to the chair.

And so working with them, you teach them skills and and and is that true?

So uh cultiving Cleveland's next generation, we work with young people to not only develop skills to um be in the workforce, but we also educate around food justice initiatives, around civic engagement, everything from how policy is created to implemented to food access work at the West Side Market to urban agriculture work um across city neighborhoods.

And so the urban agriculture, do you guys um uh implement um you farmers like a yard, what is that uh yeah, side lots.

You take side lots and um you create um like like what they do with how they do farming, right?

Community garden.

Yeah, to the chair, uh we work with uh a couple of local farms uh that are already established uh through either the land bank side lot program or um through individual programming.

Uh the main farm that we work with is Revlove Urban Farm in the Mount Pleasant neighborhood.

Um Shirley Bell Wheeler uh manages a group of young people.

She works with YOU during the summertime and then through cultivating Cleveland's next generation employees uh youth year-round to both work on her farm and uh learn some um more office-based skills.

Okay, so when you sit down, because you know, this is a great great project.

Who who could who came up with this right here?

I did.

You did.

This is good because you know what?

You could teach uh, and I'm looking at it right now.

Um you could teach project management through this.

For example, right, you sit down with with the children, and say, okay, we're gonna do the implementation of this project and how um looking at project management now.

How do you do an implementation of a project?

You know, the implementation could be how you bring the workers and put them in different um job spots.

You're gonna do this, and you and and then you'll go, and then I'm looking at the planning, because people just think you're doing gardening, but in planning, you you have different roles and responsibilities.

Also with the planning, you could do a resource analysis, what resources you might need to make sure this project works, equipment, supplies, money, and then how do you monitor and control your project?

And then and then in the end, how do you close the project out?

And you could take that skill with you and use it anywhere.

Use it anywhere because it's the application of the knowledge and how to apply it.

It's not just here gardening or or what you doing, as you said earlier, this is a good idea.

This is real good.

I really like this because you cultivating people.

A lot of times when they leave Cleveland Public Schools or the schools, they don't the students don't know how to apply the knowledge that they just learned and how to do it in a group, because when you do a job, you mainly it's it's a project.

And what roles and what responsibilities do you have to um and and workloads and all of that?

So that project management is is really good, and you have it in here.

You have it in here.

I like I would love to see it.

I like I like this a lot.

Well, thank you to the chair.

Uh to clarify, cultivating Cleveland's next generation was started by uh two women, one in uh Clerk Fulton, Tanisha Velez, as well as Shirley Bell Wheeler in Mount Pleasant, uh supported by both neighborhood connections and food access raises everyone, as well as the city's Department of Public Health.

The Food Access Navigator Program was uh uh one of my ideas um meant to um be a part of cultivating Cleveland's next generation, and uh one of our core values is ensuring youth are co-creating and leading with us uh rather than us um just telling telling people what to do and expecting them to follow.

We're really um trying to cultivate that leadership and that program management and all of the things that you were mentioning.

That's important.

You your degree is in what?

What you get your degree in?

My degree is in supply chain management and food studies.

From what what college did you go to?

Syracuse University in New York.

Hey, hey, man, and then it's food.

Did they you you learned some purchasing and procurement as well, didn't you?

Because then uh supply chain.

So my um experience has been particularly in um food access work.

So when I first moved to Cleveland, I was working for the Greater Cleveland Food Bank on their retail donation program.

So some of my supply chain um skills went into ensuring the food was getting to the people that needed it efficiently and quickly.

Um and then I did work for a national nonprofit that did work with schools, mainly schools on uh food purchasing.

Uh but I was more on the figure.

Yes, data analysis side, and now I'm here working on uh food policy and programming.

So let me ask you this one question.

Uh and I'm gonna yield to my um to my colleagues with the snap cuts, because you're looking to cut snap this year.

I don't know, what is it, 15% or 30% of what they're looking to cut?

So we look at contingency planning with your program and teaching the students how to um with these side lots that we have in open space lots that they could do farming on the lots and whatever the case may be.

Are you thinking in that direction?

Because we have to think about uh contingency planning because they're looking to cut, which is going to hurt us.

So with the food access navigators, definitely working with them to understand the intricacies of the SNAP changes, um, not only the cuts, but the work requirements that were implemented, um, ensuring that folks that are currently enrolled in SNAP or might be eligible for SNAP understand all of the requirements.

Um they are very complex, and um so working with our young people to be able to translate that to eligible folks.

Um, and then with cultivating Cleveland's next generation, definitely working with young people to not only know how to access food but to grow it themselves.

I like this.

Any any questions on um Ordinance number one eighteen?

I almost passed it earlier.

I got emotional.

I got emotional, you know.

Um that was some rough times for me, and it made me go back and think, you know, so that was rough.

So put you now, council member and um okay, council member Joe Jones.

Ms.

Chairman I'm just coming in on this you you you've done a good job so I'm kind of like moving from where you left off at um given the fact that we have all of the crazy uh out of order extraordinary things happening on the federal level that the likes of which I know I have never seen in my lifetime and the negative profound impacts of those changes hitting local cities um so I guess Mr Mr.

Chairman um and this would be kind of like a question to the director too is because the city of Cleveland is going to have to brace itself for these cuts and how they're going to impact their citizens I guess my suggestion would be knowing the numbers you know of those would be greatly impacted and then even though this is a it appears to be uh I guess I would ask the question then Mr.

Chairman to director this is the first of this type program for the city at this point so that's a yes or no Mr.

Chairman is this the first program for the city of Cleveland like this I believe so yeah it is okay so one of the things is just listening to the presentation by the distinguished guest here um is the fact that um she would be training young people um and that they would be responsible for at least uh touching 80 Cleveland families is that correct how do how how would that work how does that look Mr.

Chairman uh to the distinguished lady Mrs.

Frances Mills Dana Pixler Dana I'm sorry Dana Pixler through the chair please Dana was your last name Pixler P I X L Mrs Pixler through the chair uh so we will work with young people to uh plan uh different community events throughout the community and then we'll also be working with um existing events maybe that's a ward event maybe that's um an event happening at a library or a local um community garden for example so reaching families through different events that are happening throughout the city that's how you get the number of 80.

So so Mr.

Chairman do we have a way where we know families uh that are in the city of Cleveland um that we know for sure is on some of these programs and maybe potentially cut and then we could start being a little bit more targeted uh if these cuts take place Mr.

Chairman to uh the director to the chair absolutely there would be an opportunity to I'm asked the question again Mr.

Chairman to the director do we have people who we know that are on these programs a listing of them so that if and if we don't have that listing then we may need to look into it um where we could reach them if these cuts start to happen in all across the city of Cleveland and and the reason why I'm asking Mr.

Chairman uh to the director reason why this is so important while we're sitting here at this table is when people get hungry say it one more time when people start to have an issue where they can't eat food on a consistent basis things can get really nasty I'm concerned so again I I would hope that this is on the radar screen uh and we have some preventive measures in place um and we also talk about maybe potentially um feeding some of our younger people because when I was growing up back in the day black people poor neighborhoods when Reagan was the president of the United States of America we had cheese lines and bologna and farina I don't know if you any you are old enough to remember that and we used to make some good macaroni some of those who are African American who like me realize those days when we had plenty of cheese for macaroni and so what I'm sharing with you is that we're faced now with a president that cares nothing about our communities we can see it on his true social when he took uh Barack Obama and Michelle Obama and made them like monkeys so I'm really concerned Mr.

Chairman when I talk about these issues here at the table so I would appreciate it because I'm paying attention I would hope that everyone's paying attention and so the program that this distinguished lady Mrs.

Pickler is bringing is could be something that could be a saving program for our citizens or we can utilize its model to be able to talk about targeting certain families and communities that need help.

So when I was growing up we had those schools that were open up in the summertime and give us free lunch programs.

So do we do we have do we have any of that, Mr.

Chairman?

Um to the director, are we even looking at thinking about how we're going to deal or tackle with this issue.

So the chair, the the we've stood up a task force with the county to look into what are going to be the impacts and what are we gonna be able to do about it when the state and the federal government make these cuts.

Right now, we don't have the exact uh rules and regulations from the state for how they're going to be enforcing the these new um requirements.

And so uh we're just getting prepared and uh Zainab Pixler's uh program with uh the collaborators that she mentioned is one bright spot here, and and we're looking for many more bright spots so we can support our local food systems in Cleveland.

Mr.

Chairman, I'm putting this in your your box because you're the health man and you're responsible as the chairman.

I'm very concerned about how these cuts will potentially happen if they happen.

Um, but I don't trust this president nor his administration to do what's right on the on the behalf of poor people and people in general who are in need.

So it's my hope, Mr.

Chairman, that um on this side of the table, we begin the proposition of at least put together a preliminary process or a thought, get prepared so we're not caught off guard.

And Mr.

Chairman, to the distinguished lady, I think that you know the program that you have is a great model.

Um, I see a whole lot of possibilities here and uh on a different level of thought.

And um as we move forward in the future, I'd share some of those ideals and concepts that would enhance this program and make it something that will be be a very profound and powerful impact in changing people's lives because when people get hungry, um they need to know that there's something there that can help them.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

And thank you, um council member.

I'm gonna say this real real and I'll be real quick.

I love your program the way you just narrated it.

Um and you have different um let's say different uh different parts that you're gonna work on.

Are you gonna teach them how to do overlapping projects at the same time?

Because you could work on the gardening and you could work on other that you just narrated to me at the same time, and that way you can teach them how to cross-train themselves.

Uh I'm excited about that.

Absolutely.

So the chair, uh this funding will support specifically the food access navigator program.

Um our goal is to uh retain at least two of the food access navigators year-round, and in that they will be working on everything from urban agriculture to, like I mentioned, the food access work at the West Side Market.

Um, there's also some mapping projects going on, so they're learning how to use Google Maps.

Yes.

So yes, they definitely work on uh a variety of projects under Cultivating Cleveland's next generation.

You could use project management 2020 or 216.

You know, they have some good um resources in there, put it on XL, and then um, you know, it would tell you when they you know meeting their goals and objectives, you can monitor it better, and that way you could do the overlapping projects with your project.

You know, it's a good piece.

I like it, I like it a lot.

Let me not talk for a long time.

Um I yield to council member uh harsh, and then council.

Sorry.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'll be very brief.

Um it's always an easy uh ask when the administration comes to the table requesting permission to accept other people's money.

Uh you got me.

Okay, I'm with you.

Um, but since this is a small uh dollar amount, 24,000, I believe, and since it's 100% being passed through, can I ask what the uh need for the city's involvement is, why through the chair the organizations didn't just apply directly to the funder to just take the money or what's the role of the city here?

You're the chair, the um share our strength, no kid hungry grant was exclusively available to a local municipalities.

Makes perfect sense.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Appreciate it.

Good morning.

Appreciate everyone's time again as always.

Uh I just wanted to give a quick shout out uh to the chair um to uh coordinators uh newsletter, farm to inbox, and if others are interested in more information about how food systems work in Cleveland, um there's been a lot of research that's been done, and um it's really convenient way to help out and wanted to give a quick shout out to one of the larger urban farms that's in Ward 12 Bay branch farm that I know uh Ms.

Pixler has worked with as well.

So really appreciate the program.

Looking forward to understanding more of how we can increase this type of work and um how we can collaborate on that.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you very, very much.

Any other um questions or ordinance number 118 2026?

Stands approved.

Just stick around, then we'll come back and we'll discuss the lead piece and um to the chair.

Just one comment.

This has been our first opportunity to get to the table to talk about food systems.

We've been wanting to, based on the schedule, get here to introduce Zaynab to you.

Uh this small program is just one of a whole host of things that we're hoping to do across the city.

So I'm hoping that we'll have an opportunity to come back so she can give you a fuller view of uh food systems work in the city of Cleveland and how we would hope at the health department to improve our residents' opportunity for better food access.

So we would have to do that.

Okay, great, great, great.

You know, you know, um commissioner, we could do that.

Uh you'll get with Tina and she'll tell me, and then we'll put it together.

You know what I want to do also, because um Austin Davis and uh Councilmember Austin Davis and your director, we're gonna get together to discuss the environment.

And this right here helps us with the environment as well, but gardening doesn't always have to be vegetables, could be other kind of vegetation also because we have to be able to in cities how to when we deal deal with air quality, how to put vegetation and have us working together for the good of the whole for the air quality for the residents.

So we might do a sidebar with that because I know we're gonna come up with the environment.

I think in late March or early April, we'll discuss those things.

Have you guys met yet?

Okay, a couple of times.

Okay, good, because that's important, but this can fall into that paradigm because vegetation is important.

Mr.

Chairman, I think the uh the director, Mrs.

Mills, is is right on point.

I'd love to see her presentation to see how we can expand it and then what it and how powerfully impacting it will be for the the overall city of Cleveland.

So thank you, Miss Mills.

Yeah, yeah, you guys are gonna meet with Tina.

So I want to do for about um eight to ten minutes, just do something off base a little bit.

Uh Kyle Early, he's gonna introduce their program, and I want you guys to know about it, and then we'll yield to the arts.

So we don't but we're not gonna ask any questions about it, but here he's gonna come back.

118 2026 is approved um for the record.

Thank you.

Keep me on task.

How are you doing, young lady?

How you doing?

We'll have you narrated.

We will um bring you back, um Kyle.

But did you bring any handouts to give to my colleagues?

And then I gotta bring us to me the arts.

You can narrate it.

On TV, you'll be able to pull it off uh TV and out with the cost.

And you guys know everybody know this brother right here, right?

Introduce your staff.

I will.

All right, all right.

Well, first of all, good morning, and thank you to uh Councilman Conwell for the invite.

I'm Pastor Kyle Early.

I um serve as the senior pastor at City of God and the Collinwood community.

I also am the CEO of It's Not a Moment, it's a Movement.

We have brought some of our staff and our partners with us today.

And if I could just allow them uh just a moment to introduce themselves and say what they do for the organization and how they're partnered with us, then I'll do a brief overview of what we're doing here as a program to help the city of Cleveland, and I'll start right here tomorrow, right.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Um I am Angel Jacobs.

I am the director of operations for It's Not a Moment, it's a Movement, and I oversee the operations of the Sustain the Family Initiative, which we will be here to talk about today.

Thank you, Council.

It is Angel Jacobs.

Yes, um, my name is Calvin Reed.

I am the housing coordinator.

Uh we empower our young women to be uh positive, good tenants, and we also support and help them financially to um prevent um evictions, um, help them with down payment and any other uh moving expenses that they might incur.

Hello, my name is Davey Moore, and I am a um state of Ohio board certified doula.

Um, and I am with the education department.

I'm Jacqueline Bradchown with the Village of Healing.

So we are partners with It's Not a Moment, it's a movement, and we will be providing the uh the clinic, the infant mortality which you talk about, that's what we do, and to work with their women with social deterrence of health.

This is part of our team and partners.

This one right here works for you too.

Oh, okay.

I wasn't pushing it hard enough.

My name is Camellia Dabney.

I am a real estate agent, but I am teaching financial literacy through budgeting, credit repair.

You know what?

Didn't I work with you before somewhere?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I was over there in there with the fatherhood group, me and Lavelle Custard O'Neill.

Yeah.

I'm not gonna talk loans though, but I use so this is um some of our staff and partners with It's Not a Moment It's a Movement, which I'll give you a brief overview, was established in 2018.

Um, and our focus has been when we first started education and after school programming, uh, particularly here in Cleveland, but also in the Akron area.

Um, one of our highlights of our success was our youth empowerment program was able to establish a sports program in Akron Public Schools that was for sixth grade boys.

They did not have any uh sports programs.

We established a basketball league and an incentive-based program that led to um not only all of our participants having a 2.5 GPA or better, but also intended in attendance and behavior within the school.

That program then went on to six and fifth grade boys and girls, and we were able to service over 1,500 students between 2015 to 2021, uh, right after COVID.

Um, that program also we were able to do violence intervention programming, where we uh got 100,000 from the city of Akron to do um ambassadors to train them as mental health ambassadors and violence intervention ambassadors.

Each participant also had wraparound services and earned $1,500 for being in the program and are now currently ambassadors within their school district.

Um, and we host summer programs here in the city of Cleveland as well.

Other area of focus is mental, faith and mental health.

We're funded through the Adams Board of Cuyahoga County, where we do faith and mental health training for churches across Cuyahoga County, um, and also behavioral health specialists.

We have been able to train over 100 churches throughout Cuyoga County, um, and we've been able to provide wraparound services, referral services, and resources in the area of mental health for senior pastors as well as their kind as as well as their congregations being able to help them navigate to getting resources for uh therapy and counseling.

We also provide money for those families as well if they do not have insurance, and pastors if they do not have insurance to get free mental health services.

Our baby that we're here to talk about today at the table is our sustaining families initiative.

Um, it is similar to what you just heard from the presentations with moms first.

Um, it is early as I was sitting back and I was like, wow, we're we're doing the same work, which I'm very happy about, which means that we're just an extension of an investment that you've all already made.

Have you ever worked with them before?

We have not.

We have not, but we I've you want to partner with them.

After learning about what they're doing today, we definitely should come to the table and and and collaborate and see how we can engage more with them.

Our sustaining families initiative was funded first um in 2024 from the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives.

We received a grant for 175,000 to help expecting mothers and fathers that were tenanth eligible to be able to navigate their their expecting mom's journey.

Um, through that program, we um offer free certification programs where if an individual wants to become certified, let's say an STNA or dental assistance, we pay for them to go through those classes, and we also pay for their testing to become certified.

We provide wraparound services for each expecting mother in the area of housing assistance, which Calvin Reed will be helping with, uh, maternal health and therapy and counseling sessions, which we're partnered with Village of Healing and Minority Behavior Health Group and other organizations that are at the table and are not at the table to help short help ensure that that mother has the wraparound services and support that she will need as a family.

So, what we've been able to do through the success of that is uh certify over 30 um participants and in the workforce development, not just the certification, but also helping them find employment.

Um, not only that, we have provided assistance to stop evictions.

Um, as you know that it can be tough on a single mother or on a family when um they are expecting children, the economy um is is is pretty bad, and looking for jobs can be tough.

And so what we've been able to do, and Angel Jacobs, our operations person put together a great format to work with landlords to stop evictions.

They signed MOUs where they did not put those families out, and we provided the rent assistance to help them stay in, but also again helping them find employment and other wraparound services that they may need.

We were blessed and we did a phenomenal job with that program.

And then I applied for another grant uh through the Ohio Department of Children and Families, and we were awarded $550,000 to continue the work that we are doing right now.

So, in a total over the next three years, we will have invested $750,000 into Cuyahoga County, um particularly Cleveland residents to help expecting mothers through their journey of birthing beautiful babies.

Um, I wanted to also provide a little bit of time, uh, not only if you all do want to ask questions, but for Angel to talk about the staffing piece of this in terms of how many people we have on our team, exactly what they are doing and the areas that they are focused on.

And then I'll close by saying uh I'll close with what we would need from the city of Cleveland to make this successful.

Again, we're not here to ask for any resources, as you just said.

It's also always a beautiful thing when resources come to the table for our residents and for our city, and so we are providing those resources.

So at this time, I'm gonna ask Angel to quickly talk about uh Angel talk real quick about the staffing and the program as well.

Thank you, Angel.

Thank you so much.

Appreciate it.

So our Sustaining Families Initiative, um, we have a dedicated staff that is focused on this initiative only.

I know that uh Pastor Kyle spoke about a couple of other initiatives that we have, but this one here for our expecting mothers, and I do also want to add that it is also for new mothers, mothers nurturing children that are one year and younger, that is part of our program as well.

We have two dedicated case managers who are able to speak with the mothers in in forms of intake, referral, case management.

But what's really special is that they also have the ability to cross conversate with the case managers that they may have in other locations in other spaces or organizations that they have.

We also have put together a systematic way that our intake works so that it is efficient, so we have a dedicated housing coordinator that is to the right of me, Mr.

Calvin Reed, who will only be focused on the housing piece, not to overwhelm the case managers with the caseloads.

They are going to go in and initially do that intake, make sure that that assessment is right, gauge what that family's needs are, and then be able to dissect that into the areas of other expertise.

We have a workforce coordinator who is not here with us today.

Her name is Valencia, and Valencia will be specialized in just the work for workforce.

What we do know is that how you can support anyone but our families is that they have to be able to sustain themselves by being able to provide an income for themselves and their families.

Our workforce readiness program allows mothers to do that because we have an initial streamline into certification programs that they can then take and gain gainful employment almost immediately.

We pay for the actual classes.

We partner with uh community partners, first hand health careers, um, tri-see for those programs, but we also pay for all of the things that come with it.

Because it's wonderful to send someone to class, but then they need uniforms, they need supplies, they need books, and then they also need someone to pay for the actual certification for the state.

And so when we be at when we're able to provide that, then now they're they're able now to go home and provide for their families.

That immediately impacts the housing piece is critical.

Last year, we had over 30 um participants that we were able to successfully avoid eviction, and that's critical.

Because if you are worried about where you and your family are sleeping, and if you are safe at night, we cannot ask you to go be great.

But when you are worried about your Maslow hierarchical needs, we cannot ask you to go be great if you are hungry, if you feel unsafe, if you are mentally unwell.

So our partnership um with our community partners provides us a power ranger attack on that thing.

We do what we do well, which is execute programming, and we ask our community partners to help us sustain that because the goal of our program is not just sustainability, but access for our moms.

They oftentimes have no idea what resources are out there for them.

They oftentimes do not have support, family, friends.

What we offer in our cohort, because we do this now in a uh cohort-driven model where we have 25 moms per cohort, and that will also give them the community and social support that they also need.

Because one thing we do know is that when you can't advocate for yourself, things begin to fall apart, and then those dominoes begin to fall.

So that is why the cohort driven model is so critically important.

We have actively today 31 mothers that have completed assessments, and we have an additional 20 mothers who have completed the interest intake, which means we'll convert them over to assessments, and our case managers will begin to be begin to have the process evolve for them.

And then they will have the access to workforce, to housing, to food, right?

We want to make sure that we are attacking those social determinants, those people are hungry.

We want to make sure that we partner with our community partners.

The food bank is one as well.

We uh partner with them to allow them access to that CRC as well, but we can walk them through that process.

It is one thing to tell people about all these beautiful things that are happening, but then not give them the backbone support to be able to navigate the process.

Open for any questions.

Questions here?

He has a question.

I'm actually thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I'm I'm actually impressed because I didn't know what to expect.

And so I'm still kind of like consuming the information.

So I I would certainly yield to you, Ms.

Chairman, and let the total presentation happen, and then after, then I may have questions.

Fantastic.

Thank you.

I'll just say this presentation is often speaking for itself.

You're doing tremendous work.

So thank you very much.

Are there other presenters in the lineup here?

Is that it?

No, that was it.

Yeah.

Okay, great.

I will close by saying this that I do want you all to know, I don't know if Angel hit this.

We will be servicing over 150 families between this year and next year with these resources that we have, and we are currently looking for some more resources to keep the program going.

Sustainability is going to be important, as we didn't just want to be a hot spot just to stop at, and you know, for a couple of years, we really want to keep this going.

So the ask for city council is that if you know you all can help share this information in your newsletters to get it out in the community to help uh more resources and referrals come through, that would be great.

Um let your um you know constituents know about the program.

If you have community meetings or events that are coming up, you can reach out to us and we can come out with the table to also share this information with your uh residents as well.

Um, and then just your support.

You know, if you see us out doing the work, please come out and support us.

Um, all of our information is in here, so you can participate in any of the events that we have coming up.

Um, and we look forward to um helping the city of Cleveland move forward.

Thank you for your time.

I do have questions if that was the end of the presentation.

I thought it was gonna be more.

I see so many distinguished people here, so I thought, Mr.

Chairman, we were gonna go straight on down, but Mrs.

Jacobs really covered a lot in her presentation.

Um I guess the question here, I'm looking at the booklet and it talks about the various different um, I would presume these are your partners, your key partners.

And you have do you have any key partners uh near to or located near um the Lee Harvard community?

Councilman, um although we're partners, the village of healing has opened a second location in the Buckeye Shaker location.

So Lee Harvard is hop skipping the jump, so those women can come to the Village of Healing.

They will get the medical services that they need, they'll help them with the social terms of health, and then we make sure that they get connected with councilman.

Um your your ward, our workshop, our educational piece, our educational tracking, the those pieces are also virtual as well, right?

So if your um your community would like to join those, they're absolutely free.

The maternal health and wellness classes, their parenting and infant care classes, financial literacy classes, those things are also available to your community as well in your ward.

Well, I just want to say I thank you guys are doing a wonderful, beautiful, fantastic job and serving the neighborhoods and um and certainly would love to have you in my newsletter.

Um have you write some articles, uh, you know, services that can be provided in addition to coming to some of our community forums where um you can let people know about the various different services that are available.

And it's just really outstanding to see your group here.

And then I guess I would presume since you made the presentation to us in an educational way.

Would at some point would you be looking to work uh, you know, to help us in our neighborhoods with, you know, I'm not sure how I see the chairman over there.

Um I'm not sure how we're gonna work it out, but we would love to see something like this, uh, as you may have heard in the earlier presentations.

We don't have those kinds of services in the Lee Harvard like we would like to see them.

And our community, even though it's been a strong neighborhood for quite some time, uh, it's still a neighborhood that's hurting and has a lot of poor people.

And some of our areas, unfortunately, it is is heartbreaking uh what has happened to it over time.

So we have a lot of people who need help in the Lee Harvard area.

I don't want people to get in their minds that Lee Harvard is this this uh light up on the hill.

Um we have a lot of people who are in need and need assistance and help, and I would love to to work with your group to be able to do that.

And Kyle, you know, you uh Dr.

Reverend Kyle.

Um don't want to get the because I don't want to say the titles wrong, then people get upset and say he didn't give them the proper respect.

So I appreciate all the hard work you've done to put the agency and organization together.

And then you know, you're like a sign of Ward One.

So we would love to have you uh come back and and share some of the growth and the experience that you have with helping people and to the chairman, thank you for um allowing me the opportunity.

I don't have any really questions to shoot at you, just other than how do we partner and how do we work together?

Well that that's pretty easy.

All it is is a phone call, councilman.

You know, I'm gonna always show up.

Um, and to every other council person that's here, um again, our information is in the packet.

If you reach out, we will show up.

We can come to your war club meetings, we can come to your community meetings um and share this information.

And uh, we have to spend this money, so call us quickly, please.

All right, call us quickly so we can give give these resources out to the families that really need them.

And again, thank you for your time.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you all so much for being here.

Um we'll bring it's not a question.

Um yeah, I was just gonna note um Village of Hill, and I just just want to give a shout-out to them for providing quality health care.

I just changed my health, they are now my new health care provider.

And so um, due to losing my long-term health care professional, and I will just say, hands down, um, I was treated just wonderfully, and I appreciate it, and I really would encourage um people um who who need quality care, go to where you are wanted, appreciated, and loved on.

We'll be having the first um actually we are the Cleveland Commission on Black Women Girls, will actually be having our meeting there at Village of Healing um in the Buckeye Shaker neighborhood this upcoming Thursday at 5 30 p.m.

So we are in partnership with them.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you very much.

And we're gonna bring them down with and within two weeks to um on the floor of Cleveland City Council, and Pastor Early is working with Imani, and we'll get that uh moving.

All right.

Thank you, thank you.

See you guys later, God bless.

I want to bring up the assembly for the arts.

Um so we can and it's gonna be real quick, and I'm going to um uh Rhonda, to you coming up director.

Okay, great, great, great.

You know, I love doing the arts, man.

That touched me up with the um band playing for those uh cancer events, and um, you know tomorrow I gotta go get um checked up because I go every year, every year.

But when the doctors say be there at 11 a.m., you know what time I'm there for my checkup?

Yep, you ready?

10 a.m.

Right.

I don't play around with that in that that kind of touched me, man.

It's really scary thing, because you know, here's the thing about diseases and and cancer, you don't you think about the family, it's family and friends.

Around it with at them, and you're like, wow, man, you think about that.

So, director to the chair, I want to and to the to the council members.

Thank you all for having us today.

Today, we want to provide a brief overview of what Assembly for the Arts is doing, what we've done, and where we are heading to support the great city of Cleveland.

But I do want my colleagues to introduce themselves.

We are uh a small but a very mighty team.

Good morning, I'm Deedra McPherson.

I'm chief community officer at Assembly for the Arts.

Good morning, Chinanya and Kemra, and I am the board chair for the Assembly for the Arts.

To the chair, yeah.

Um, I've got a short presentation.

We can follow along on the slides, but um, but and happy to take QA at the end.

First, I really just want to to the slide two.

Um Top who who is the creative economy here that we're talking about.

To the chair, thank you.

I got it.

I got I got it now.

Thank you.

Um there are really three categories that we talk about when we talk about this big creative economy.

One is artists, individual artists, they're in all of your wards, and we're serving all those wards.

Second, they are arts organizations that are serving all of your your wards, and thirdly, they are creative businesses, they're in quite a few of your wards.

So we're not just nonprofits, but we're the three individual artists, creative businesses, and nonprofits.

Um a little bit of a history lesson, don't want to bore you, but assembly was created five five years ago.

Y'all uh some of you remember me coming before the city council and the county council to seek support for some really emergencies that were happening.

COVID era funding, and thank you to the council and to the new council board members on board.

The city uh with our advocacy uh put in three million dollars in COVID era funding.

This past year, those dollars hit the ground and created seven wonderful projects.

Um we also work with the county and advocated with the county for an additional 3.5, so a total is 6.5.

So we are an advocacy organization, in other words, we helped to cultivate all the arts and creativity, and a big lever uh five years ago was making sure those COVID era dollars affected and supported arts and culture, which had a stop.

Secondly, you recall that last year or in 2024, we advocated for issue 55.

I want to say thank you to this table, to the council, and many others.

What is issue 55?

This was a levy that is supporting once it passed, because the uh the current levy was ending.

Once it passed, it is now generating, it will generate 138 million dollars over the next 10 years for some 300 nonprofits.

We've heard about the instability uh happening in federal government with cutbacks.

We heard that in the previous two sessions, but here in the county, thanks to voter support of 72 percent and advocacy that's coming from assembly for the arts and our public partners.

We have locked down and we have safeguarded stability for arts and cultural organizations, uh, even in the midst of the instability.

So we try to go for the biggest bang for the buck.

300 nonprofits, if you name your favorite arts and cultural organizations, I bet they'll be on that list.

But that levy is going to end in 2035.

So think of us also as a think tank and a research tank.

We will be coming back to you, and we are working now with researchers.

What's gonna succeed this tech this cigarette levy?

Your health director was here earlier.

We really don't want people smoking, do we?

Are there other things we can do?

Uh and in this area and this city in this region.

We're looking at dozens of other cities and regions across the country.

We are working with researchers to figure that out now, so we'll be ready when the time comes.

We we don't want to wait till the last minute.

This brings me to the last big umbrella thing.

Great cities have cultural plans that drive, so we're ready for crises, we're ready to work with other plans.

Many of you are looking at plans in your own district, arts plans, cultural plans.

We have the shore to quarter shore work that's happening.

We have work happening on the west side of Cleveland, work on the east side.

So we want to be ready with the support of philanthropy to lay out a plan that stands alongside of those.

We've heard uh talk today, the importance of the southeast side of Cleveland.

How does a cultural plan lift up artists, creatives, and jobs in all of those neighborhoods?

There's work happening, some of it's disparate, it needs to be woven together.

We know it's happening with our our CDCs, our how are we connected to them?

This is we're just at the beginning of this stage, uh, but you will see this happening.

Uh we hope to have this cultural plan working with the city, the county, and others, pushing out in 2027 and even into 2028.

We are, I mentioned that we are researchers, we work with the biggest researchers across the country, so we have the data that you would have to advocate for for the city of Cleveland and your wards.

I'm gonna mention just a couple of these, not all of them.

Creative Ohio, they are our Columbus data organization, SMU Data Arts.

We're doing a lot of work with them on national research, comparing Cleveland to other cities, and I'm gonna mention the NEVA National Independent Venue Associations.

So if you want to know the numbers, some of us are economic data people.

Yes, the arts are a business.

We drive $7.59 billion and support 26,000 jobs.

Happy to share more of that with you in detail.

Within nonprofits, we have some new information that's come out of SMU Data Arts who are working with.

And there's some good news.

I know there's a lot of bad news.

Cuyahoga County, Greater Cleveland is really strong in the arts.

Even economically, we're showing strong post-pandemic growth.

Um, believe it or not, revenues and operating surpluses are outpacing national averages.

We have the raw data to back that up.

Organizations are expanding and their expenses and staffing since 2021.

Now, let me add a little caveat.

There's a term we use lived experience.

Is this the lived experience of all of our arts organizations?

No.

We are really fortunate that we have a number of outsized large organizations.

They do drive uh a lot of these positive statistics, and we're getting more statistics and more research that will narrow down on not just the largest that are driving this, but stay tuned for that.

Another uh asterisk uh that's not as positive.

Audience attend audience attendance remains relatively low, even though we're having more programs among all these these groups.

We're trying to figure out why that is.

Um we'll figure that out.

And the last bullet local government funding, local government funding is lagging our national average partners.

Cleveland is on a number of lists.

Uh, and the last two uh for the your last two presenters, we hear about the challenges in health, health and human services, uh, infant mortality.

Uh we don't want to be on the last on the list when it comes to arts investment at all levels.

So we want to be a partner with the city when it comes to how we're investing in the creative economy.

And that brings me to again, this is more data.

The blue chart shows how uh the expenses of our artists has gone up.

It went down during the pandemic and came way back up, and it exceeded the uh national average.

That's the red line.

So Cleveland is hitting way above its weight, and that's not just Jeremy Johnson saying that.

These are our national researchers that are looking at uh hundreds of cities across the United States.

I mentioned that we're not about just about nonprofits, but but we're also about for-profits, and thankfully we have partners that we can lean on.

We don't have to do everything.

One group that is doing a lot of work is a group called NEVA, the National Independent Venue Association.

They are the group that represents uh some of our city uh establishments, such as Beach Land Ballroom or the Happy Dog, uh, live venues, the nightlife.

Uh they did a study you might have seen that that showed that um they're losing money, even though they're for a profit.

One out of four is losing money statewide.

Uh those numbers even um or three out of four losing money statewide, those numbers are even more hitting home here in Cleveland.

So we're working with them alongside of them to promote this so there can be different uh policies, whether that's in Columbus or here locally.

And I'm about to wind down.

Individual artists.

We are really thrilled that we have the support of Cuyahoga Arts and Culture to extend individual artist grants across the county, and that includes the city of Cleveland.

Um just this past year alone, there were some 72 artists and creatives from every single ward in this city who received grants or awards ranging from $1,500 up to $10,000.

Some were randomly selected grants, some were uh uh jury grants.

There was one artist, uh, she had a fire in her house.

Uh it burned all of her equipment up.

She was unable to care for her newborns because she received one of these boost grants, is what we called it.

She was able to buy equipment.

So she's now back in business making wonderful uh toys and knitted features for for new moms.

Uh you could see here just uh a look at which wards and these are every ward has some level of of artists that are benefiting.

We're gonna do this again this coming year, not with the city's port support yet.

We're doing this with county support.

We'd love to be able to match that.

Uh I I shouldn't say the county support with Cuyahoga Arts and Culture support.

They they have the county in their name, but they are a state, it's complicated.

They are a state subdivision, uh, but they focus just on, and I'm happy.

I'm sure that my counterpart, Joe Paulson, would be happy to share more information.

So we also work with educating artists and entrepreneurs in the area.

We have a partnership with COSI, which is a part of Greater Cleveland Partnership, and these entrepreneurs, artists are also from across the region and from across the city.

You know that we're located uh in the Midtown Collaboration Center.

Thank you, uh Councilman Stephanie House Jones for being the locust for this.

It's a place where we collaborate, we do a lot of collaboration with other nonprofits.

We'd love to collaborate with the folks that were here at the table who are working on health, uh, who are working on education.

We've brought folks into the city.

We keep talking about how do we hold on.

We've literally brought nonprofits to be our co-tenants in our space.

So we're bringing jobs to the city, though they're paying dollars.

Uh Cleveland Arts Prize, Cleveland Arts Education Consortium, uh, Chamberfest Cleveland.

So we are bringing folks into the city to work alongside us, even though we're not huge.

There are things that can be done even with smaller nonprofits.

Uh I would not be I would be remiss if I didn't mention the work we did directly with the city on the transformative arts fund led by uh Rhonda Kay Brown, who's here.

That project, seven projects that generated jobs and workforce for 300 some artists ultimately and 400, 500 other businesses.

I'm sure she was shared the details of that and as she has.

We were the fiscal agent for that.

What does that mean?

We were the people that helped to get the dollars to pay those creatives and pay those those institutions in a timely fashion.

So we know city has bureaucratic levels, and sometimes that doesn't work well for creatives who are on uh shorter timelines, they don't have the ability to float those dollars, but we were able to get those dollars out the door.

We want to thank the city uh and the city council and administration for entrusting us to manage that those three million dollars.

Something new is come aboard, and I want to thank uh Rhonda Brown for sharing this with me.

This is under the the city's leadership, asphalt art.

Uh uh I'm sorry, through the chair to councilwoman.

Um Miss Brown actually sent it to every council member uh last week.

So across the nation and to the chair across the nation and the country, this is not just about art.

There was a study done by Bloomberg that showed that in certain areas where asphalt art was created, they reduce pedestrian fatalities by up to 15% because of asphalt art.

This is not just an arts program, it's a public safety program.

We're thrilled to partner with the city.

I think the RFQ is going out.

We will help get the word out for artists to submit proposals to the city, so we are a partner.

And I would also be remiss if I didn't mention the instrument drive that we've done with uh the chair's leadership called Play at For Work Cleveland with a number of nonprofits to get instruments in the hands of children across the city.

Um just to back up and close out.

Our priorities going forward are long-range to build stability for the sector.

This is not just what's happening today and tomorrow, but how are we creating uh an array of supports?

Could it be a cigarette tax, could it be something in addition to that?

But where will we be in five or ten years?

That's gonna mean policy with the city of Cleveland, with the county, perhaps regionally.

Secondly, getting the creative plan passed or uh created, that's gonna be very important, and standing along other plans.

Thirdly, partnering with others who are doing this work.

We do not do this work alone, such as Cuyahoga Live, that's the live music work, and finally, continuing artist funding programs.

We do that with Cuyahoga Arts and Culture now, but we'd love to do more.

We have proposals to look at certain neighborhoods of Cleveland right now, uh, where we could invest more in creatives.

So there's more work to be done.

We're thrilled to be partnering with the city and I open it for questions and answers to myself or Deirdre McPherson or to China and Camara.

Um then you um go ahead.

Probably know already that uh we champion to uh bring money into uh music school settlement.

Yes.

Three million dollars every year to the tune of a hundred thousand or a quarter of a million dollars children to uh muic campaign burgos, musical settlement, uh Rainy Institute of Music, and uh what was the other third one?

Virgo's rainy institutionality.

Center for Arts Inspired Learning.

Sure.

You got it.

Don't tell, I forgot to mention the name.

Send our so the children could go and um study music and it keeps them off of the streets and your character, which is very, very important.

And we also raise instruments, new and gently use instruments so that we can give the instruments free of charge to uh children when they uh finish their programs so they can continue to keep playing, which is really really cool.

Beans I would thank you guys for helping to champion that uh movement for the children.

We got to do it again this year.

That councilwoman House Jones.

Um thank you.

Um through the team, um, through the chair to the team.

Thank you all so much for the work that you all do.

Um, there were just a couple of things.

Um, I want to start, I guess, from that my last point and question when you talked about how we used uh ARPARDELARS to directly fund artists, which was not a reimbursement, we actually invested prior to, and how we have been able to show with processes how we can be responsible stewards of the people's money, but meeting people where they are.

Can you talk about that of what that looked at what that looked like and how it unfolded um when we actually invest in people from the beginning and not expect people to reimburse resources that they don't have to the chair to the councilwoman?

Uh yeah, that was a very important distinction in this program versus other programs.

We had quite a bit of dialogue with the administration.

Um we were accustomed to doing this, but city halls are not always accustomed to that.

So I do I can't speak to how the city did come to uh adjust their their requirements, but it was critical to making it a success.

And I I'm sure uh the administration can speak to that.

But uh we probably would not have been able to do it, or would not would not have been enthusiastic about entering it unless we knew we could get those dollars to people where they are from the councilman to the councilwoman.

Uh it's a national model to make sure that that happens for for folks who uh where they are, they don't have the luxury of waiting the six months or sometimes longer for funds while they are doing the expenses.

These are small businesses, these are individual artists.

Yeah, and through the chair um to the team here.

I really want to highlight this.

Um, I know you highlighted um uh one of the transformative arts projects for those who call a place home within Asia Town, and again, real dollars getting to real people.

Um, many times our city uh I believe many times we operate from a deficit mindset, always thinking that people are going to do something wrong, things are gonna go bad, and this is a prime example of showing when quality meets quality, you get quality results.

And so I would really um encourage my colleagues here for us to begin to implement processes where we can treat our people like the professionals they are, and great things can happen uh and go from there, and this is just another demonstration of what we can do when we consistently get the hear back of we can't do that, we have to be good stewards of the people's money, and this is a demonstration that we can do that.

So I wanted to thank you from there.

And then there were early in your presentation uh through the chair to the team here, um, that showed some of the the numbers about um uh the lacking of audience participation in many of our artist venue.

Um, I will say probably it's just the economics when you don't have disposable income or disposable time, you really make decisions on where you can go and patronize.

Similarly, when it talks about the lagging of local investments, it definitely will want to get a little bit more into that comparatively to other cities.

But one thing I think our body needs to do is really analyze just overall, I would say, at least in the last generation or two, the real tax shifting of how taxes are actually spent or not spent from the federal, state, and local government.

We were in a conversation last week with CMSD, and they talked about the percentage that the federal government, state government had been investing in our schools.

And when I had to some of the initial work, uh there is a study I think I was able to at least capture back from 2021 and 2020, no, 2001, excuse me, how the state had been putting in at minimum 50% of our school phones.

Now in 2026, that rate is down to I think it was 35%.

So and now the local government has having to increase more, or our local community has had to increase our percentage that went just to schools.

And I'm saying similarly, the press on local communities are so real in a variety of different ways due to the changing or elimination of taxes in other areas when you look at the capital gains tax, things of this nature.

I am not a tax guru, but I'm just saying these things are real and really, really, really important.

And we as a city much need to be much more aware of that and thinking through a real strategy, because at this point, I really just think that cities within the state of Ohio will absolutely need to come up with a valid initiative.

Similarly, as they are doing a ballot initiative to potentially eliminate property taxes, we will necessarily we will have to do something similar to get the resources from the places that we know, like capital gains tax.

Like we we have to attack these other partners, and I know people like we can't do that.

Yes, we can, and people have been doing it because more and more the people who have the means are hoarding their resources while the rest of us have to fight over resources.

So I'm just bringing this to this light because you showed it, but I think it needs to be given into context about what has happened over the years when it comes to our tax basis, because we know people are tapped out with the property taxes.

And so when people can start to look at, well, how how have we been paying for some of these things prior to, and how were local governments able to diversify their funds?

It was because we had a radically different tax base and strategy of the money that was coming into communities, which now is it is literally slowly been slowly been eroded, eroded year after year.

And Cleveland City Council absolutely needs to be able to bring forth real solutions to our people to educate them so that they can come along with us and hold people more accountable and responsible for paying their fair share because that's not happening.

That was no question, it was just more of a statement.

But I wanted to bring the context because it was put up there.

Thank you.

To the chair, well taken.

Thank you.

That was great.

That was excellent.

Yeah, any further comments on this?

Um happy to move on as well.

Well, then I think I'm up next.

Um, Austin Davis, I'm the new council member from Ward 7.

Great to meet you all.

Uh, and on behalf of the disproportionately successful artists from Ward 7, we won the most number of individual awards from you uh last year.

So thank you very much.

To the chair, to the councilman, my councilperson, by the way.

Oh, great.

Uh parts of our city uh really show they really show forth their their creativity, and certainly um we're pleased that there were so many applications.

But we want applications from all parts of our city.

Uh like I said, every ward is represented.

So um and we want to get more applications from from all, and uh congratulations on so many from from your ward.

Well, it's and the creative economy is very present in our community as you know.

I mean, like the Transformer Station or the public art that you see around time.

It's great.

Uh shout out to shouting out to our yes, Rhonda, who has been a key part of making the art so prevalent in our city.

It's wonderful.

Uh, I was gonna ask about just really in a similar vein as my colleague Stephanie House Jones.

Uh, what yeah, if the local government here is spending less than half of a pure city average of you know three percent to seven percent of uh arts funding comes from local government.

I always assumed it was partly because we have such a robust nonprofit and philanthropic sector here locally as well.

There may be more resources from those other sources.

Uh it can you speak to it?

Is that instinct accurate?

Through the chair to the councilman.

Um we do have a robust uh uh individual philanthropy uh uh system here.

Uh and of course, Cuyahoga arts and culture through the cigarette tax is also very robust.

Um does that affect how how the city affects well, we don't want the city to be last.

I but I think there may be some we could rebalance it so there's equal amounts from uh our local government.

Um but again, philanthropy uh is a very large part of why the the city and the region does so well in terms of arts and culture.

That makes sense.

It's it I am the church.

But it shouldn't to the chair shouldn't let us off the hook, the rest of us.

Fair enough.

It's and when we're talking about proportions, I was wondering if that is perhaps why proportionally the city government may be spending, look like it's spending less because proportionally we have such generous philanthropic adventures here.

But to the chair, that may be we're still diving into the data some more.

Happy to bring you into some of those raw data research.

And if you wouldn't mind, let us know who our winners are from our individual wards.

I'd love to send them some sort of formal announcement or I mean like I we should honor our our successful artists, all artists, but especially the ones who are um to the chair.

I'll look to my my colleague, Deirdre McPherson.

We can make sure all the council people here are aware of your respective winners.

All right.

With that up, to the chair.

Speaking of winners, do you know the Grammy um Duran Bernard?

Yes, incredible or Cleveland's own to the chair.

Yes.

Yes, of course.

They told me that last night.

So people are saying, oh no, and I and I'm from the vehicle.

And there's also Elaine Martone who's out in Shaker Heights.

She's a multi-grammy award winner.

Uh she works with the Cleveland Orchestra for but yeah, both of them.

Classical.

Do you know how to reach um out to them?

Um especially from the top blooders, you know.

Everybody wanna be a top blood, but back to the other piece.

Yeah, I want to uh meet the young man and some of the musicians.

We're talking about him yesterday.

And I said, I don't know him.

Have I have a gig with him?

That's what I was asking people, so I don't know.

And he plays what instrument um director, come to the table real quick.

He's a singer.

He's the vocalist.

Yes.

You you you you have his um tunes, you have some of his songs.

I do, yes.

I want to hear it.

Not now, but I'm saying send it to me so I can see what's going on.

Did he go to Glenville High School?

Yes.

Um I'm not sure he went to I believe he went to Cleveland School of the Arts.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, that's over there where we're at.

So I should I should know him then.

Because I used to go up and play with the kids, some children.

So time at Cleveland School of the Arts.

He's a caramel kid, too.

Can I move your we say caramel?

Karamu now?

Yeah, I always say I'll move this to reach him.

I want to honor him on the floor.

We sit back, can we talk about it?

Maybe you play some of his songs with some of the uh band members, and we'll we'll do it right.

Because you have to um acknowledge people.

It's great to be acknowledged from your own hometown.

It make it motivates you to do better and well, well, you got the Grammy, you know, you can't do no that is, but but we could show love to uh to him.

And and I'll call you maybe later later today or or tomorrow.

I'm so excited.

I'm so excited.

Yes, yes, yes.

Uh councilman.

Yes, yes, sir.

Thank you.

Uh good good after almost good afternoon, but good morning.

Uh, appreciate the presentation.

Um, new council member for the Ward 12th Dunmei Shah.

Appreciate your time.

Uh just direct uh quick question on kind of the future as um to the director through the chair.

What we you were talking about thinking about the future and planning.

Um I was inter I was wondering if you've um seen the some of the work that I think Iceland has done for providing you know guaranteed income for artists, and I wanted to see if there's been any of those conversations about how can we kind of work on that and what the data shows us, because my understanding was that you know dollars are in return and what we're seeing is far exceeding many other, you know, quote unquote normal expectations of what artists bring back to the community.

And to me, I wanted to understand if there's been any of those conversations and uh what what you think about bringing something like that to Cuyoga County in Cleveland.

To the chair, to the council, but yes, there indeed has been conversations.

I'll let Deedre McPherson speak to First off, thank you so much for bringing up that topic.

I'm so happy and impressed that you are aware of that initiative in Iceland, uh, that they have uh legislation for that.

And absolutely, that is something that would tremendously impact Greater Cleveland and our creative economy to have a program like that guaranteed income for artist assembly for the arts.

Uh, we did host a discussion on that uh at say in 2024.

It was a very popular and well attended program, as you can imagine.

Artists from every industry uh attended that discussion to hear about what is happening on that front.

uh legislation for that and absolutely that is something that would tremendously impact Greater Cleveland and our creative economy to have a program like that guaranteed income for artists assembly for the arts uh we did host a discussion on that uh at say in 2024 it was a very popular and well attended program as you can imagine artists from every industry uh attended that discussion to hear about what is happening on that front um it's it's a topic that I hope is is going to be covered in in the cultural plan and that can we can really elevate the need for that because um artists are entrepreneurs artists are creating jobs they're bringing people to our neighborhoods who are spending money uh traveling from outside the region and and putting Cleveland on the map in ways that are really important so uh to have that type of investment to continue the legacy of the transformative arts fund uh but to do that on a larger scale um would would be one of the the shining lights coming out of our city um it's just yeah I'll stop there but um thank you for bringing that topic up and we'll definitely be partners in that work along with many others yeah I appreciate it and thank you for the explain and I look forward to providing any support or help I can in bringing that forth I mean you know it's we've often talked about how our neighborhoods are exploited and you know these aren't poor neighborhoods these are exploited neighborhoods and to me I think artists are the perfect example of people that are creating something out of nothing and for me it's something that we definitely want to be invested in and make sure that we support so I look forward to that thank you and then we'll right over to the uh thank you Mr.

Chair I did have one question about the slide and I just it's a clarification question.

Um could you go back to the personal expense it was a red and a blue graph yeah that one uh what pray tell through the chair is a average personal expense as percentage of total expense what does that mean?

So the data was gathered for by SMU data arts uh every organization provides how much they're spending on all of their personnel okay so that's their personnel expenses so not personal personnel personnel an extra I know how to read it everything I promise it's kind of small yeah so it's personnel not personal personal expenses okay personnel the cost of people thank you my only other question yeah it was mine I just want to dig in a little bit so I can understand it if I can I'll wrap up here in a second I'm sorry mr mr chair I'll be I'll be brief um my only other question through the chair um you know obviously there's been a a big blow to the arts and cultural community in Cleveland um recently when WCSB was taken off the air rather unceremoniously uh on world college radio day uh and we lost programming they covered 40 50 different 60 different kinds of musical genres and and artist art communities um does the art and culture council through the chair have any financial ties with idea stream or Cleveland State University do we have any financial ties?

Yes we are not directly supported by Idea Stream or by Cleveland State University.

And through the chair do you have any do you fund any programs for IdeaStream or IdeaStream is uh funded by Cuyahoga Arts and Culture.

They are one of the 300 nonprofits that are funded by them higher education is a great area um we um CAC does fund Cleveland Institute of Art Cleveland Institute of music um but uh Cleveland State is I don't believe is one they may have a project but uh also tri-see which is a tremendous arts uh music um we want to build some more uh bonds with our higher education that's part of our our future better partnerships stronger partnerships with higher education um and I agree and uh we certainly respect uh how the city council did come out to to speak about uh what happened with Cleveland State idea stream and WCSB.

So um the the the reason I'm asking Mr.

Chair is I know that your your organization has done a good job of respecting actual artists.

However uh arts and money uh can mingle in very uh unflattering ways and when people with half million dollar salaries decide that they prefer one form of art over another form of art they will typically use their power of their money and their position to sometimes silence arts and art forms that they do not care for um which is what we saw with CSB right um and so uh I just want to uh you know be able to understand how the financial ties interact with the arts community um when we know that artists can be trampled by wealthy people who have a lot of influence in the community um and I just wanted to you know make sure that there's not any uh cross ties there I didn't think there were I wasn't my assumption I just wanted to ask out in the open since that's what we do in the table.

To the chair to the councilman our charge I it's always sort of the biggest bang for the buck the biggest policy that will impact individual artists overall nonprofits overall creatives overall um so we really take a holistic view uh although we are very aware of what's been happening um but we are really working on the long term how do we work with the city with the county with partners yeah so that we could still have creative creatives whether they have a lot of money and many do not yeah so that they could have be impactful in the when I was looking at Mr.

How do we work with the city, with the county, with partners?

Yeah.

So that we could still have creative creatives, whether they have a lot of money and many do not.

Yeah.

So they could have be impactful in the world.

When I was looking at Mr.

Chair at the uh was it Navia, the uh Neva, Neva, uh 20 per only 20 percent of local music venues turned a profit.

Um I know that the you know, the uh college radio infrastructure has been a way to promote uh to share events to let people know about different concerts coming up, and a lot of those concerts are local artists, right?

The Beachland Ballroom, the Grog Shop, uh these places they feature a lot of local artists, uh, people that are they're just struggling to make it.

Uh, and they got you know recognition and they got airplay and they got you know attention through college radio, which then in turn sent people back to the beach land to watch the bands, right?

There's a whole community that that gets you know disrupted when when we lose one of our radio stations like that, and it trickles into the the the profitability of many of our venues.

Um so it is all connected.

I just want to uh bring that up since we're here talking about it.

I I don't really have anywhere to go with the question.

I just I appreciate the time, Mr.

Chair.

I yield.

Yeah, I'm gonna yield it.

Councilmember Joe Jones in a second, real quick.

Um downstate temporary assistance for needy families, TANF dollars.

Is there a way we could tap and take some of that for the summer for children to um take uh free music lessons or to use it as a job for young musicians to teach um children TANF money?

Probably you have to go through jobs and family services.

What you think?

To the chair.

I love where you're thinking about this and love to talk to you further.

We have not been uh looking at TANF or those other kinds of uh government sources for um music lessons or arts type of instruction that has not been within our purview.

Uh one thing I am looking at is how we can work better, for example, with summer jobs, summer youth employment.

I know that uh youth opportunities unlimited.

Uh they provided me recently with some data.

Uh something like close to 185 of their placements are with are with arts and cultural or arts and cultural adjacent programs, and 85% of those programs are right here in the city of Cleveland.

There's room for growth there.

Um, but I would love to speak with you or you know, to dive more into TANF.

That that is uh I'm looking at my co-partners here at the table.

Um we'd we'd uh let's brainstorm on that.

Would love to do that.

Yeah, I could reach out to some people downstate, maybe Kimberly Dent or someone.

Um I'll give you her number late later today, but I'll give a warm-up call first.

And I think we probably could do that.

Uh with 10 of dollars, temporary assistance for needy families.

And when you look at the abject poverty this in um the city of Cleveland, um we might we might.

There's an have an assumption, so I'll just reach out and I'll ask.

Working across the state is gonna be key to our city's uh continued resurgence, personally, if you ask me to the councilman.

And here's the other question.

Are you going to uh Albuquerque, New Mexico?

This summer for the uh American for the arts.

And when is that to the chair?

I'll defer to uh Dietrich.

Um we did go to the Americans for the arts conference last year when it was in Cincinnati.

Uh I know we had thought about it.

I think it'd be really great for us to go have a presence there, represent Cleveland.

Um there are a number of organizations in Cleveland that go as well.

Um I think it'd be, yeah, we haven't confirmed it, but it's coming up.

I'm gonna look it up right now.

Yeah, to the chair.

We're sharpening our pencils and our our our budgetary Cincinnati was a lot closer than Albuquerque.

So no, drive down there.

I'm gonna put on the floor to probably put together a national band.

Um we end up playing to do that.

Because I I I played last um I play last year in November with American for the arts.

I said in play with June 2nd through the 5th in Albuquerque this year.

Uh let me know what's what I because I'm gonna go.

I'll be there.

I'll be there.

To the chair, knowing you'll be there, that's an incentive for uh us to find a way.

Thank you.

Um councilman, sorry for taking up some year, yeah.

Move forward.

No, Mr.

Chairman, I mean, uh certainly the liberty is to the chair.

So I appreciate you giving me an opportunity briefly.

Um my colleagues start to hitting on the line of questions that was also a concern for me as well.

And that was looking here at that same graph here where it where it talked about the difference uh in that trend, and it was significantly lower than the national level.

And at one time it was it was higher in 2022 and 2023 in the national level.

What would you say is contributing to this this spin that we see right now in 2024?

And is it the same uh as it relates to 2025?

So the blue is the Cleveland, so we were rising to the chair to so we were rising in 2020 23, and we've continued to rise.

We're in good shape.

We we are certainly national trends.

Compared to nationals, uh Cleveland is an outlier uh in arts and culture.

Um and I would uh also say through the chair that we want to look more at more granular data is does does that outline reflect just a few large institutions, or is it reflective?

Some 60 percent, maybe between 55 and 60 percent of all our organizations and our area have budgets under 250,000.

65 uh almost 60 percent have budgets under 250,000.

So what I would say, uh, and first let me just uh preference with this.

Uh I think you're doing a wonderful job, Mr.

President.

Um, Johnson, you have been a great advocate.

Uh uh since going all the way back uh yeah, when we first met.

I said, who is this man keep blowing up my phone calling me and knocking on the doors?

And so you have done uh absolute wonderful job uh and advocating for the arts, and I just wanted to give you those kudos because I see you always here, you're always engaged, you're always involved, and that's it, and and these numbers maybe somehow maybe could be contributed to um your advocacy for the arts because there's not too many people in that field that really reaches out and touches us like you do.

So I just want to thank you for your advocacy, and then also on that slide, would like to know uh the difference, what's making that difference, you know, uh here in the city of Cleveland with while we are outliner, and if you don't know right now, that's fine.

Uh we could, you know, at some other point to the chair, and thank you for the the uh recognition.

I greatly appreciate it.

Uh yes, I am a tar blooder.

So um you know, Cleveland has always been a strong arts and culture uh city for for uh a century.

Um so this is not new.

Uh if you go to other places, the investments we have here are um you know are incredible.

People come here from all over the world.

Uh we have you know our industrial past led to philanthropists creating some hundred-year-old institutions.

So there is a long legacy.

Um I don't want to start naming them, but you mentioned Karamu already, hundred years old.

So traditional Swahili.

So to the councilman to the chair.

Um I think that's why we have a long history of philanthropic support now with uh Cuyahoga Arts and Culture.

That cigarette tax also makes us a national outlier.

And the grass is always greener.

So people look to us as the model, and we're also trying to get better.

What can we do that's even better than the cigarette tax or could be a join to the cigarette tax?

So um I'll dig some more into that data and happy to report back to you, Councilman.

I appreciate it.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, to Mr.

Johnson and to his distinguished team.

Thank you for the work that you do.

I'll look into the temporary assistant for needy families.

I reach out to you, uh talk with um Kimberly Dent, see what can we do about funding jobs for young children in the arts and our can we try to dig into that money?

You know, sometimes the states have a surplus of money, sometimes just you know, especially with TANF dollars.

I know we funded the Fatherhood Initiative through TANF money as well.

I think we're doing that again with 10 million dollars from the TANF dollars.

So now see, can we stab into that?

You know, I don't just work with the city, I reach out to the to the state as well, and I plan to reach out to the state on another issue soon.

Anyway, we're gonna talk about lead and kind of down a little bit on that.

And I'll see you guys later.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh Jeremy, have you greener grass on canopy yet?

Yeah, oh my god.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Is that a documentary?

Like years ago.

Okay.

I'm looking at it.

Thank you.

And thanks for asking about WCSB.

We're just mentioning that bringing them up.

Me too.

It's one of those things.

Great to know.

Jazz is like Mark is the fundraiser.

And Tom reached out to me this morning.

So CPU.

He caught me.

Tom, which you were calling me about it.

Coming there.

Oh, you want me in that seat?

Is this a city?

Right here.

You call me closer to us.

Yeah.

You're going to tell us what what's going on with the um with lead and what issues and concerns we have right now.

You know, this is the second hearing this um this year.

And I said, wait a minute, we gotta get in touch.

Find out what's going on with lead.

Well where we at.

Mr.

Chairman, I think I'd like to start uh with Dr.

Margolius, who I think has a more comprehensive view of the lead world.

I think that there are uh some issues popping up with one of the grants that again wanted to let you know at as we're learning about it.

Um but again I I want to put it within the context of everything that you got so that you're getting your comprehensive update.

Yeah, you know, when I got the car this morning, I've been thinking about it and uh send back to my mind and how it's in front of my mind.

Yes, I don't like losing anything.

I don't know, me neither.

Good.

We'll yield.

Uh I was kind of waiting to um Councilman Davis, but um we'll yield, we'll move forward.

All right, uh through the chair, thank you.

So I recognize uh the time, and so I'll just go through the first uh dozen slides, which then segues into our grant performance and uh the appendix is available for all of you.

I believe you have you have the slides uh somewhere uh so you can look through them uh at your own leisure, including some suggested amendments to the 2019 lead law that we'll talk about at a future date.

Um so in 2019, as as you all know, we we collectively raised the uh alert that our lead poisoning rates were not declining despite all the the good work and and many good people doing this work.

Um our our lead poisoning rates were double our pure cities at that time and three to four times higher than Flint Michigan was back in 2015.

Okay, all right.

And mostly that is linked directly to the age of our housing stock.

So the older uh housing stock in a community, the the more old lead paint there is.

I brought in a sample if folks uh want to take a closer look at what lead paint looks like.

It's in a bag, and uh so wash your hands afterwards, don't open it.

Um and so this is another picture that is in too many of our homes in the city of Cleveland.

Um particularly problematic when it's uh like at the bottom left corner where it's a wooden painted window, and uh the friction from opening and closing the window creates lead dust, which ends up in babies' mouths.

So, what we learned uh from reviewing that data from 2019 to 2023 was that increasing the number of lead safe certificates alone was not improving our lead poisoning rate.

And we think the reason for that was because we found out that uh a number of property owners um who were compliant complying um in order to pass the the clearance exam, which was the standard at the time, all they needed to do was go into their homes and use a wet wipe, a bleach wipe, and clean out their window troughs and their windowsills and areas of their floor, um, and then the exam would follow and and they would be able to pass the test.

And we have some examples of those uh here if folks wanted to look.

So, in order to uh pass a get a lead safe certificate when it was just the clearance exam being required, a property owner working with a lead safe worker could identify the areas of the house to clean in advance and then go do the dust wipes to look for lead dust, and there would be no lead dust because moments before the day before it had been cleaned thoroughly.

And so we found out that just focusing on that one metric alone, increasing that number was not doing the trick to reducing lead poisoning.

Um but what is and and and what will be the the trick is that the compliance with those lead safe certificate process and also just separately from government funding and the private market, every single replaced uh or fixed lead hazard.

So every new window, every new door, porch, uh fixed deteriorated paint, each of those uh contributes to reducing lead poisoning in our community.

And furthermore, every new home built and every old home demolished is what will increase the likelihood that a baby being raised in Cleveland is raised in a home that that doesn't uh poison them.

And furthermore, it's important that if we're building new homes and we're for fixing old homes, that those have to be the same homes where children and babies are raised in the city of Cleveland, because if the new homes just go to parts of Cleveland or neighborhoods or blocks where only adults live without children, um then those uh impacts won't be felt across our community.

And so the good news is um we we have been building new homes, tearing down and fixing old homes, training lead workers, ticketing and prosecuting property owners who do not comply and spreading the the word.

I have uh some shout-outs to some members here.

Uh so there's councilman Conwell, uh, the Ruben cutting of uh Davis affordable housing, um Councilman Harsh is championing the modular home.

Every new modular home is a home that will never poison a kid, Councilman Jones uh in the Southeast Side Promise, the home renovation programs, each of those initiatives, and Councilwoman House Jones.

Sorry, the picture didn't show up there of uh some new homes and her ward.

Um each of those new homes is not never going to poison uh a child.

And so for each of these key performance indicators, the number of homes tested have been increasing.

The number of homes upgraded or improved have been increasing.

The number of homes demolished is stayed steady and continues to increase.

New homes, new apartments, children's tests for lead and children and lead safe homes.

And so as a result, uh for two years in a row, our lead poisoning rate has been coming down, and we're now at the lowest rate ever.

And in 2026, that trend does appear to be continuing.

And so absolutely not popping any any champagne because the rate is still so high.

Uh but the state has us now at a number of 11%.

We we count ours internally at 14.5% because the state excludes when someone has a positive finger prick test and doesn't follow up, they'll include that in the denominator, but not the numerator.

Whereas we only uh we we don't um we we would count that in the numerator as well.

But regardless, the state and our internal data have us uh declining over uh the the last two years uh with this increased focus on getting lead hazards permanently addressed, and I think all of the seeds that have been planted by so many of you for for the last five years are finally starting to take effect in our community.

And so the question any time I show those metrics, food for thought for later is you know, do we have all the right metrics that we're we're looking at?

How do we measure them and how can the collective work that we do improve them?

And then I have an appendix, which is data for each metric, and so this is the number of lead risk assessments and those those uh more formal inspections that we do over time, and it's increasing in the fourth quarter last year.

This is the number of tickets that we're administering in terms of prosecution, so property owners that aren't yet on the rental registry with a lead safe certificate uh has been increasing dramatically, starting uh especially last last quarter.

We're doing about a thousand uh tickets to a week.

Um, and the number of uh rental units currently certified with an active lead safe certificate in the city of Cleveland is nearly 30,000, um, though we know the denominator is at least uh much larger at 90,000.

Uh more folks are pulling permits to uh uh upgrade their windows and porches, and so we know not everybody who replaces their windows gets a permit, but at least the ones that do that, that number is increasing.

Um, and then I will pause on uh progress towards our uh four grants and turn it over to Chief McNair.

We have four grants, the Ohio Department of Development and three from HUD, and we'll give an update on the progress towards those grants.

Uh thank you uh uh Chairman uh Conwell and uh members of the committee.

Uh so this is something that's been kind of rapidly evolving that we wanted to let you guys know about as soon as possible.

Um but uh it was late last year, kind of closer to the holidays, uh, that we received word from the Ohio Department of Development, and they had been communicating with the Department of Community Development uh kind of throughout this grant period.

But the uh ODOD lead safe Ohio grant program, those were ARPA funded dollars that came in.

I think building and housing originally made the application, uh, but about five million dollars came into the city that was awarded to be administered through the Department of Community Development.

Uh and again, they kind of heightened awareness to us that uh they were beginning to have some concerns about us being able to meet our timeliness deadline because those are ARPA funds, they needed to be spent down by the end of February.

Um so again, there was about five million dollars that came in from that.

Uh they asked us to kind of get a list of all projects that we had in the pipeline, uh, where we at, we scurried, we were working with our uh implementation vendor for that contract, uh, which is uh uh CHN housing partners uh and pulled a lot of that stuff together.

I think part of what we found and part of the challenges that we were experiencing uh was a couple fold.

Uh one of which uh that program had a cap on the amount you could spend per home of fifteen thousand dollars.

It also required uh that each one of these homes get that lead clearance certificate, right?

So uh and the dollars could only be spent on windows and door replacement, and as Dr.

Margolius knows that is one of the largest issues facing Ed.

But in Cleveland, right, um rehabbing a home to get a lead clearance certificate takes much more than just windows and doors, uh, which was causing our implementation vendor to use blended funding sources, which was really slowing the process down.

Um so we were able to work uh with ODOD who generously kind of within the constraints of the program, uh, tried to make it as flexible as possible for us to be able to spend those dollars as quickly as possible.

Uh in that, we're able to lift the uh cap of dollars spent.

They're also enabling us to spend dollars on more than just windows and doors so that we can include things like paint, all of which makes it easier for us to do these things because like I said, the constraints of the program essentially turn these into like mini occupied rehabs of homes, right?

Which is much more complicated than just saying go replace windows and doors.

Um we found out uh mid-last week uh that the state uh they kind of came back and said that these projects that are um uh under contract, under construction, um fully signed off on can stay, uh but they are going to repurpose the remaining portion of that grant, which means there is three million two hundred and eighty-nine thousand dollars that the state is reclaiming uh to spend in other areas.

Uh they have also let us know that we are not the only major city uh in the state of Ohio that this is happening to.

So I think that we do feel that uh again, I think given the great need there is around lead in the city and the way that program designed, it was a little more challenging uh to spend.

But uh again, we have done everything that we can do uh over the course of the last four or five weeks, both working with the implementation vendor, exploring a variety of options, right?

But the state made it unequivocally clear uh that what you know they are in the business of, right?

They are not going to allow these dollars to get reclaimed by Treasury by the end of February.

And so if there are projects that weren't contracted scoped, ready to go right now, uh they were not going to we tried very hard to get an extension uh on these things, um, but they let us know that they will not uh allow for extensions with the uh exception of the Haven Home Project.

Uh, we're able to identify about $150,000 uh in window and door replacement in there that they can utilize.

Uh but beyond that, they would not be issuing an extension uh that they needed to move forward with the repurposing of this.

Again, um grateful to the state for um allowing some flexibility that is making us easier to get these.

Um I don't like any more than you do the idea of repurposing these funds.

I made it clear to the state uh that I understand that they are in the business of uh ensuring that Ohioans benefit from this before going back to the Treasury.

Uh we let them know that we are in the business of helping as many Clevelanders as humanly possible because this is one of the biggest issues facing our city.

Um but again, this is something that was kind of brought to us at the end of 2025.

Um, and we have done an extraordinary amount of we work we work and a pretty compressed timeline uh to try to shift this as much as possible.

And um, because they're able to change some of the parameters of that grant.

Um, I mean, we were at like 200,000 dollars of work, so the fact that we're able to reclaim about 1.6 million to use here, I think is uh some progress.

Um but again, uh I think as we talked about it, we wanted to let you guys know this as soon as possible.

So again, uh the dust is not settled on this.

We have not changed any contracts, uh, but letting you know where that grant stands.

Um with the grant.

I don't like losing money at all, it's not good.

So you said is by the end of February.

You have to have the money spent.

So when they gave us the dollars to grant the gift, um, yeah, we know the timeline was the end of February, or did they just change it?

Yes, sir.

We have known the timeline for grant was awarded a couple of years ago.

We know it was coming up.

So if you see that you have February.

So who was monitoring the grant?

What compliance?

So this was being operated through the Department of Community Development.

Um there had been a lot of changes within that department uh over the course last year again.

Uh broadly, I've been trying to dig in as much as I can to home rehab, right?

Lead being one portion of that.

Uh feeling there's a lot of layers to that onion to peel back, so to speak.

Um but it wasn't until ODOD flagged this, um, which again was probably mid to late December, uh, where they said we are having a real issue here, let's get together and talk, and we were able to get together uh internally with staff members that are working on this.

Dr.

Margolius, who's uh is you know intimately involved in uh our lead response as well as the implementation vendor to try to better understand what we could and couldn't do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, let me finish this right here.

Um I thought that the um grants would have a sunset in June, but the ARPA money.

So the ARPA money would leave us and it go back to the state, and the state will give it to the federal government.

Is that how that goes?

Yep, through the chair, uh so that's right.

So ARPA really has a December 31, 2026 from the Department of Treasury from the Federal, but the state had created a timeline at February, um, knowing that they would have this option to reallocate funds that were not spending as fast.

And so they've basically looked at money from urban areas where money wasn't going as fast and and are reallocating them to some of the rural areas where the money was being spent quicker.

That's our figure.

And they got nervous because we weren't moving.

And Tom Day, I mean, Chief Did they give you a re a progress review on it?

Because you know, when you get a grant, you know where you should be at with your goals.

And your objective is to complete it in February, and if you didn't complete, let's say 80 percent of it by these let's say by September or October, we know we have issues in February.

Yes, sir.

So uh again, my my knowledge is that they were communicating with the Department of Community Development.

Again, this is something that was kind of out there.

Uh again, as we know, there's been a lot of transitions in leadership levels up there, and so uh I th you know I think some of this was moving parts going around.

Uh so didn't I was unaware that any of this was happening until again it got elevated by ODOD in late December.

But do they have a chart or anything that they were doing?

We were substantially behind, right?

Um again, I think we had uh at the time 17 homes completed uh over the course of two years now.

Now again, I think one of the things that we found uh was that the parameters of the program that were set up, um which again I think we all know and understand that lead poisoning is one of the biggest issues facing not only Clevelanders but residents in the state of Ohio, uh and they set up a program that was broad-based forever.

But like again, when you're talking about a legacy city like Cleveland, uh which lead is more prevalent, right?

You think of the it is everywhere.

Uh most residents of our city can go outside right now and go out to their flower beds, and if you take a sample of the dirt, you're going to find high lead level.

It is everywhere.

So a $15,000 grant to simply replace windows and doors that also requires lead clearance for that home, right, isn't nearly enough money.

And so uh my understanding is what that started to do to try to meet the requirements up that set forth was bring in other grant sources of funding and create like a layered finance approach.

And again, it really turned this into kind of like a mini occupied home rehab, which is very complicated and was taking you know too much time and not spending the dollars down fast enough.

So Tom, who was doing the compliance?

So that was uh I think Gina Ventry was uh uh the bureau chief that was overseeing this program area.

Uh I believe she departed last summer-ish that was in there.

Um so that that was that was kind of the program area that was living within the Department of Community Development.

Uh and again, CHN was our implementation vendor.

Um we did everything that we could in a pretty truncated amount of time to work with ODAD to try to get them to um now again they have their own program requirements they need to meet, right?

But like within those program requirements, uh they have been helpful in both listing that cap ament above $15,000, uh as well as allowing for more things to be covered by the grant with things like paint, um, which makes it way easier for us to get through there.

And we thought this is great, and if we're able to get an extension, we may be able to substantially spend down a portion of these funds, but um again, ultimately they made the decision that like February 28th was a hard deadline.

They were not going to uh uh grant an exception, so all the all the number of homes of which I think we have 63 applications pending uh right that had uh gone through contracting, have scopes done, they would allow those to stay in.

I was gonna ask you that with the the larger pipeline that we had been developing, and there is a large pipeline.

Uh they were so when you let doubles stay in, would that reduce the three million dollars that uh it would it was originally five, right?

And and again when we started this conversation, I think we had spent a couple hundred thousand dollars somewhere in that neighborhood.

Uh so again, um, because that they were generous enough to kind of change some of these guidelines again within the parameters of which they could, um, you know, that's what's enabling us to spend this additional one point three, one point dollars to get out the door and try to help as many folks as we can.

They give us timelines on the spending one point two million.

That was where they did not they did not budge, right?

Was issuing some sort of extension.

Um had they been willing to, and I think we were hoping for that June extension.

We did have a pipeline of homes.

We felt that we could substantially spend down most of those funds.

Um, but again, that was ODOD's decision.

So who is today?

The day.

Who is over that department?

Who is today?

Is it the Ohio Department of Development?

Yeah.

Uh so uh we have been uh uh working primarily with Luke.

Uh you burn a letter down to them, you talk with the state rep, state senators, you talk to the governor.

All the way up to their assistant director, right?

So this has been a pretty comprehensive conversation.

And again, they let us know that this is Cleveland is not the only major city uh in the state that this is happening.

Um, but that they were not willing to risk the idea of these funds not being spent uh within the timeline that they had other projects that were ready to go that only needed funding.

Uh and so again, that is the decision that the Ohio Department of Development made.

So, what the other cities are saying and doing, can we work together with them and we reach out and talk with our state rep state senators is our residents' money as well.

And we talk with the governor and people like that.

I mean, we we can't we gotta fight.

He had to fight for everything that we have.

I understand that, and that is what we have been doing for the past five weeks is doing everything that we can uh to work with ODOD to allow us to capture and utilize as much of these resources as humans possible.

And they they're gonna give it to other people.

They have not let us know where these are being allocated.

But you what you think it's that they have they have other areas and projects that are ready to go, um, and that there is no risk there.

Uh and so and they are doing this around the state, right?

And my guess is that this is not just uh big cities versus rural areas.

Um they are looking to reclaim these dollars wherever it is they can to put into projects that they know are ready to go right now so that they can ensure uh again uh they said quite plainly, and I understand this, like uh what they won't do is risk these dollars that they are returned to the treasury.

These are going into uh windows and door usage for the state of Ohio.

Because we are so far behind.

What they're looking at is that you got compliance.

And they're not hitting, they never hit their benchmarks.

So they're saying so the odds and the probability is that we're not going to, and it's gonna go back to the federal government in the long run.

And so they want to give it to someone else who's executing on on their projects.

That's what they're really saying.

Yes.

And so we don't have any supporting evidence that we will hit our numbers.

And Tom, you were not the chief at that time when it was pushing through.

It was other people who didn't monitor and control it, because you have to monitor and control grants.

And now we're in we're caught up in this right here.

Um so did you take a look at the other um grants that was going on with compliance?

Because sometimes when people energy compeled them to be a certain way, that's then you got with the smoke is fire.

So you know that it's other grants out there dealing with this, and their system is is flawed.

You and you doing what?

Yeah, so we are uh and this is where I mentioned, right?

Uh I'm spending a lot of time right now with the team and community development trying to uh better understand the home repair side of things where we have a lot of dollars that are flowing in and out and better understand uh the process, all the different uh all the I mean, there are a myriad of different grant programs for that.

There are a myriad of different funding sources, there are a myriad of different implementation vendors uh, right, and trying to get a better understanding of how all that works um and how we get it to be better.

Right.

Now you you meet with them how often and they give you feedback and reports and and what I I am spending a lot of time uh with folks on the third floor right now.

Uh right.

Um and you know, I I I do want to say that I think interim director Anderson uh right put in a pretty tough position.

There were a lot of folks that kinda uh again, there was uh several different transitions that occurred in there all at once.

Uh never lost on me that interim director Anderson has her own area that she is overseeing and kind of stepped in to kind of help coordinate a handful of these things.

Um but we are spending a lot of time on the third floor broadly speaking.

And again, part of this is we look at the creation of the new Department of Development and what are the pieces that are coming out uh of community development and bring together with ED, something that again I think makes a ton of sense, is gonna be hugely beneficial.

Um but as I've told many people, and we'll talk more about this at the budget hearings, right?

It's a hell of a lot easier to pass a piece of paper than it is to operationalize changes like that.

That is a very complex thing where we're gonna be able to do that.

Execution, execution.

So like taking out those uh housing pieces and kind of putting them together with the other real estate pieces and ED and kind of forming that, and then simultaneously uh spending a lot of time in the Department of Community Development right now, trying to better understand uh the different pieces that remain, right?

We're in the process of interviewing for a new director of community development right now.

That's going uh really well.

You're doing a national search.

Uh we we have done a very comprehensive search.

Oh, sure.

Uh so there were 176 applications, I believe, for that job posting.

Uh I think we went through close to 30 initial phone screenings, have been whittling way through, but uh very pleased with the direction that is going.

Uh hoping uh within the next one to two weeks to be able to have somebody not say that's a big piece of the puzzle, right?

Finding the right person uh to get involved uh up there, and then uh again uh charting that new direction for uh uh department that is really focused on neighborhood revitalization efforts that are going on.

Uh but home repair is such a huge part of that, right?

And uh probably the most complex piece for me, right, in terms of when I talk about peeling back the layers of those onions is like um because it happens in a couple of different bureaus, um there are a multitude of contracts, a multitude of different vendors, right?

And like just trying to better understand how it works, um, what's working, what's not working, how we get it operating better.

So let me ask let me ask you this question.

Uh and and I yield to I like um Ms.

Anderson, but she probably I'm saying probably I don't know, never had to um look at systems or structures that large.

Saying that we need somebody even in the interim, and I like her, don't take that I don't like her.

Uh yeah, I I I I think systems all the time.

We probably need to put an interim person right there right now.

Well, you looking to look or you audit all the other um grants.

Yes, so there are a couple things.

One, uh, you know, again, I I have known interim director Anderson for a number of years.

Uh and you know, one of the reasons uh that she was selected and things that I liked about her uh is given her institutional knowledge and the lot of institutional knowledge.

So so again, has she been overseeing these pieces?

Is that kind of her area of expertise, all the different ones of them uh not necessarily, but when things pass her desk, she has at least an idea of like uh what's going on, she kind of flags me at the right right points, and so we have been working through uh a lot of that, and again, I think we are very hopeful to have a new director for that department and start the rebuilding of that staff uh in earnest uh in the very near future.

Uh we have also been working uh Katherine Takachak, who is the uh former director of government innovation uh for Cyoga County.

Um if you've not met her, um super sharp uh young woman that has a lot of lot of experience in this work and she has um also spent a lot of time doing interim sees since she she left the county.

Uh we've been uh we have a small contract with her where she has been uh working in the department, really uh uh interviewing different people in the bureaus trying to pull together like here's what the York chart looks like, here's where your uh open vacancies are, uh here are the uh different things that these different bureaus are kind of getting into here are potential issues and challenges, right?

Yeah, you wouldn't look at the boost.

A very uh, you know, kind of matter of fact.

Uh um, you know, it's not saying this is good or this is bad, really more just here's what is happening, which again I am trying to make sure that when we bring a new director in there that they can really hit the ground running and kind of get them up to speed as quickly as possible because uh, you know, I think this is a scenario wherein I I consider myself, right?

I worked a lot with that department over the course of years.

I know it uh relatively well, and you know, even you know, it's like you you like lift up the hood and it's like wow, there's a lot uh to get your arms around, and there are many people that have been up there for a number of years with deep institutional knowledge and one piece or another, but trying to get the overall comprehensive uh glance at how it works is uh is a different story entirely.

So let me ask you this deny you.

Yeah.

Let's this let's go down there, let's try to get that money back.

I'm serious.

We send a blue burner letter, um, and we try to get that money back because you gotta you can't the way I look at things, I don't like to lose anything.

I don't like to lose it.

And if uh thinking we put I don't want to step on your toes.

Do what I'm thinking right now.

But you give me the game plan, and we try to get that money back.

Because sometimes people will say, well, we now give you the money, we'll move it here.

But if we go down there and we protest and talk with some senators, talk with state rep, reach out with the governor, try to meet with his people.

You gotta fight for it.

You gotta fight.

Isn't that right?

Um council member Joe Jones.

You gotta fight for it.

Yeah.

I do.

I do know I'm down there.

Yeah.

Yeah, I do go down there.

And the big guy.

Yeah, the big guy down there.

I mean the governor.

Yeah, so we gotta fight.

Sometimes they have to see us fighting for it.

You know, but the numbers, I don't know how bad our numbers are.

You know, I just don't know.

Happy to continue to work with you.

Uh, again, I I think the biggest enemy that we have here is time.

I think so too.

19 days.

Right.

Um, and that that was where they and so again, I I I wish I was aware of this earlier.

Um, you went into it.

I said earlier, you fell into you but you had a baton now.

But you you fell into that.

And um and I understand and I understand why.

I understand why they did what they did, which is terrible and it's horrible, and it's hurting children, it's hurting people, and that's that's just not good.

So I'll talk with you.

If whatever you think, I don't want to step on you guys' toes, and we might go down there.

And and and I'm gonna yield.

Look at the prevention on the other programs.

Look at them right now.

Because if this hit, because the person that was there before you know what I'm gonna say, so tell you not to say what you say.

And that means it might be the energy compels going to be that way.

That means there might be some other ones at risk.

You you know, you see what I'm saying?

And we do that.

But I I'll talk with you um later.

I'm gonna yield to my colleagues.

That was uh councilwoman Hudson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, I just want to get some some clarification.

So originally we were given five million dollars.

Um what was the the year that we were given that uh grant that it was awarded?

Uh through through the chair, councilwoman, it was over two years ago, I believe.

I can I can pull up the legislation in a second.

Um and then and so the state is taking back three point two million dollars.

Is that correct?

Through the chair to the councilwoman, three million two hundred and eighty-nine thousand dollars.

And um the money that you're saying um that's already been allocated for these projects that are coming through the pipeline.

That's part of the money um that has already been spent and that's not included in the three million two hundred thousand dollars.

Are we still trying to spend it down?

Through the chair to the councilwoman, that that is that is mostly correct, right?

So what you see on there, that 63 applications received, right?

Like this is that is part of the money that they are allowing us to keep in the contract, right?

Um those are projects that um are under contract, fully signed off, scope of works are done for home, and those are the ones that we that they said, all right.

Given the additional flexibility that we're going to allow within this program, we feel confident that those those numbers can be hit and you can keep those within the contract, right?

When we started the conversation uh four or five weeks ago, right, we weren't going to even be able to do those numbers, right?

And so when was the change made um to allow for um expansion of um of um things you could spend the the money on so that you weren't requiring on blended sources of funding.

When was that change made?

So through uh through the chair to the councilwoman without giving the exact date because this has just been a myriad of phone calls and emails going back and forth, it was within say the last two weeks.

Uh along with that is when we asked for an extension to the program to June, because um, and again, do have some emails where we've kind of been going back and forth with numbers and looking at uh uh you know a pipeline of homes that the implementation vendor has been kind of pulling up that we felt if they could extend till June, I don't think we would hit the full five million, but it was it was right up, you know, there would have been a handful of hundreds of thousands of dollars that would have been repurposed.

Um so we again we fought very hard for that extension before again it was like Wednesday of last week, they said no.

Uh this is what we're doing in the direction we're moving.

So is there can do you have a concern with this new um expansion that if we are able to go to Columbus and advocate for you know retaining these funds, do you have concerns of about being able to get these funds out the door?

So uh through the chairman of the council, like I I think undeniably, right?

Like we had only completed 17 homes within a two-year time period, which I think we can all say is not great.

Right, right.

I think that there are a lot of reasons for that.

Um and I think that as we really dug in with the Ohio Department of Development uh staff within the city of Cleveland as well as our implementation vendor and trying to understand the whys we were really struggling with this.

This is where we came up to the if we do these things, we think this should be able to flow.

Now, to directly answer your question, we haven't done it yet.

Right.

We think that we have done the things that is going to make this easy to flow, but until we show that we can actually do it, um, I cannot say with a hundred percent certainty that like if all the money came back in, we had that like we would be able to spend four and a half million dollars over the course of the next two and a half months, right?

Um, I I just I have concerns about the the speed with which you know you're proposing to spend this money.

Um and things that would come along with that.

Understood.

And um again, through the chair to the councilwoman, uh, you know, Dr.

Margolius um pulled together a really fantastic uh one pager uh the other day that outlined all the challenges with spend the regulatory challenges that make it so difficult to spend a lot of these monies, right?

And I think that's where we all have to be very cognizant um that it is not just uh a staffing issue or an implementation vendor issue.

Oftentimes it is the places that you get these dollars from that just have layer upon layer upon layer of a variety of regulations that is very complex, and so um you know I do appreciate that when the state say creates a program like this, they are looking at it very broadly to impact as many areas uh in the state of Ohio as it possibly can.

Um, but I do think that a part of it was that like some of those regulations make it more challenging in a place like this where the need is so great, where again you can't both say you must get lead clearance for this home.

You can only spend $15,000.

You can only do it on windows and doors, right?

Because if you can only do windows and doors and you can only spend $15,000, there is no way you're getting a lead clearance certificate for almost any home inside the city of Cleveland, which then turn into an extraordinarily complicated cobbling together of additional sources from other government grants, right, which turn this into kind of a regulatory nightmare.

Um so again, I I think that we all feel that um the burdens that they are saying, all right.

Well, we'll lift that cap.

We'll we'll allow you to use paint and a few of these other things are gonna make it easier.

But we have to do it, right?

Um and that that is, you know, again, when when I say it's like I understand the state's goals here, uh my goal is to help as many Clevelanders as humanly possible with these money, right?

Period, end of story.

Like that that is it.

And so, you know, when all this stuff seemed to be going sideways in the way that we were looking at it, I think we very quickly shifted into how much of this money can we actually deliver on right now, because we don't have the gift of time in this.

Um, and while I don't love the state's decision, certainly, um I understand the position that they're coming from and their refusal to risking returning these dollars to Treasury and them saying if you cannot spend these right now, and again, I think we do know that it is more complicated here in the city of Cleveland than in some places where you can just walk in and replace windows and doors for under $15,000 in a home, you know, have that lead safe.

And they're like, we have projects like that right now that are ready to go, and that's where we're gonna put these money because we're not risk sending it back to the Federal Government.

Monetary control the Monet uh um chief.

Is the um this is my last question.

Um do you know what the state is proposing to use this funding for?

Is it related to lead safe remediation or is it something completely different?

So through through the chair to the councilwoman, yes.

This is still the Ohio Department of Development led Safe Ohio grant, right?

It the purpose of it is to replace windows and doors uh to a bait leaden properties, and so that is their intent.

They have not told us exactly what projects they're investing in or where they're going.

Uh they have only told us that uh one that there are a great many places throughout the state of Ohio uh that received allocations that were able to spend their money easily, that have further need, that are asking them for more money, and that Cleveland is not certainly not just the only big city, not the only place in the state that has had challenges uh executing these dollars, and so they are working broadly throughout the state to repurpose dollars where they can to put them in areas where they know are ready to go right now, that they have contracts available that they can move.

But it will be for lead windows and doors.

Thank you.

So we need to convince the state of our need, but also that we're prepared to um change our our path to get these these funds out the door.

This is a conversation I wish we would have been involved in several months ago.

Thank you.

So before I yield to um Joe Jones.

Last year we were given I think it was the state out of the federal government was going to take that money from us.

How are we doing right now?

Keep an eye on that.

Through the chair.

So that's the bottom uh half of this slide.

And so those are the HUD grants, including the HUD grants.

Yeah, and so uh for about three years, every report card we got was red.

Um this past quarter for the first time ever, we've got two greens and and one yellow.

And so we are making progress.

Um, but you know, understand that we're gonna have to bring that same type of accountability to these other grants and and keep pushing forward.

We were gonna talk about the HUD grants.

Yeah, it's on this slide right here.

You're yeah, the Glenville grant is the formal name is the lead high impact grant, high impact neighborhoods.

And so you can see uh in each of those grants we've gotten an extension, a one-year extension.

And the life of the grants was five years.

We're in the sixth year, and you can see the production over the past year relative to uh the the whole five years.

So work has been speeding up, but continues to to be very difficult to spend spend government money on home repair.

I'll give it to the rest of them because I talk with you guys all the time anyway, and we'll see what's going on.

Um Joe Jones.

And then you and Councilmember Hart.

Um, while you were speaking, I was saying earlier um when you call my name out that um you're the only one of the very few council members that I know that um goes downstate and meets with the governor and lobbies.

Yeah, and do and do work for Cleveland.

So I just want to thank you for your leadership in doing that.

Now this year is troubling to me on a number of fronts.

And um, and it ain't no way you can sugarcoat it.

Um what I will say is the presentation was very professional and um and very clear.

Um and transparent.

So I appreciate that.

My concern is the same concern I've had since I've come back eight years ago, back to this council.

When you can have a department, when I look at these numbers here, this is mom and pop shop.

This is no kind of shop that city should be operating.

Our numbers should be vastly larger than this.

When we can have uh was it community housing solutions numbers, they're getting rid of more money than what we are getting rid of.

And they're doing far by more projects than what we can even blink our eye to.

And they're our partner.

So my suggestion would be cleaning the shop up.

And it was it was my suggestion early on, cleaning the shop up and getting a shop in a place where it can function.

And one of the things, Mr.

Chairman, because this is going to be an ongoing issue, uh, and I just want to make sure that the administration clearly hears this, is that you're going to have to be able to get rid of those funds quicker when they come through that department.

And I even made a few suggestions too.

And I some of them seemed like they had heard it and I saw some of the formulation and the policy change uh as relates to how do we get money out to our contractors quicker?

How do we create a strong contracting system?

And one of the biggest issues that we're having right now is getting these funds out, getting them into these projects and getting them moving and getting it mobile.

And the solution, at least part of the solution of what I heard back in the 2024 by then, um, Mrs.

Hernandez, was that they were putting together a um system where by they would be having a major contractor, someone who would be responsible for, you know, having the bulk of this part of the administrative function coming up out of a more professional operation so that we can get these funds out quicker and faster.

Because the council has been sitting here also bottlenecked, not just in this administration, but administrations years past and trying to get funds out to the people and to the citizens.

There's a real reason why we have the the distinction of being um a city in poverty, is because we're failing to get those funds out to these to the neighborhoods quicker and faster to save them.

And when you can't get these funds and resources out quicker and fast enough to save these neighborhoods and these communities, they will continue to go down and slide down the route and path that we don't want.

So I guess the question is have we began the proposition to barter with the state to say, okay, if you take these funds from us, can we get something exchange for it?

Have we started those negotiations?

If not, my suggestion would be that we do start looking at ways in which we can swap those funds.

Because again, we gotta remind the state of the reason why the city of Cleveland is so important to the state of Ohio.

And one of those reasons are many.

But one is we are an absolute engine in the state of Ohio.

We're actual cylinder.

We produce resources and money for the state.

And we have to remind the state that we are a partner too, and we do have needs.

So it's in their best interest, I would think, Mr.

Chairman.

In their best interest to make sure that we get all the resources we necessarily can get.

So I would ask if we could barter that.

Now, going back to these other cities in your pro in your slide.

This is another issue that is important to me to kind of understand, and I'm not sure if you may have the answers here because I know both of you gentlemen are not really over that department.

But it's the cities of um that you've listed here, where their compliance is lower than ours in terms of lead poisoning, and how we are double the rate, and that would be Toledo, Akron, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, and Austin.

And in terms of good practices, um my suggestion would be, Mr.

Chairman, to the director.

Um, what are we doing?

What are they doing different from us that's causing for their lead to go down and they're in similar situations that we're in?

Through the chair, thank you for that question.

So they have newer housing stock than we do.

That's the number one reason that they have a lower lead poisoning rate.

When you look at the average age of of homes that were sold in Cleveland 65, we're working on getting a metric of just period uh how old homes are, and we'll do that by neighborhood.

But Austin, Texas, for example, has uh average age of home of eight years, eight years old is our average age of of housing stock.

Um and as you can imagine, they they don't have lead poisoning, and so um that that's why part of you know the highlight here is all the work that that this council has done in terms of building new housing, and I recognize that that alone is not um going to be sufficient or or fast enough, but um I would encourage you all to continue to do that great work of supporting construction of new and affordable housing as well.

Well, Mr.

Chairman, I would just say as you got the slide up here and you see that fancy picture of that nice councilman up there.

No, swing it back to the other one.

No, no, swing it back to the other one right there.

He owned a news fighting.

And he has his picture up there because he's talking about bringing housing into the city of Cleveland.

So and I'm glad that you pulled that slide back out.

Because see, this is the issue right here that we're really fundamentally faced with.

How do we improve our failing housing stock?

And one of the issues and one of the challenges have been, and it's been frustrating for me sitting down here at the end of this table because every time, and we talked a little bit about this with the director, um, when we asked them, what is it, what resources do you need to have to to help you improve the the situation, you know, we're lied to, at least as one of the previous directors uh and and and uh building housing director, what was the name, O'Leary?

And so at the end of the day, um he lied to us here at the table.

Now I understand that you can't do but so much at the end of the table if you're not the boss.

This is like having Trump in the in the office.

People who oppose him, he go after them.

I understand that.

But what I would share with you, which is really important to me sitting here at this end of the table talking about um building and housing, we're we're gonna have to do better in that department.

We're we're gonna have to do way better.

And then I would suggest that one of the things that we talked about in that caucus meeting was the factor that we should bring our financial institutions to to bear here at this table because they're not opening up their pocketbooks to help uh make it affordable for Clevelanders to not only purchase homes and rehab homes, but to build new homes.

And then I would suggest, and I would say to my colleague Chris Harsh, who's done a wonderful job in trying to get um uh I can't think of those module homes, trying to get the module homes in the city of Cleveland.

I would just say we need to look at how we get developers from other cities, because when I'm looking at right now, I'm looking at other communities outside the city of Cleveland building a lot of homes, brand new homes, entire neighborhoods and communities.

And the question I have in my mind is why don't we have that here in the city of Cleveland?

Why aren't we doing that here in the city of Cleveland, building new homes?

Um what I am seeing and what I have seen in the last uh eight years or so is a lot of rental properties.

We're giving money to people to to develop rental homes and rental properties.

And right now, Mr.

Chairman, um, to uh the gentleman here at the table, we don't even have the right laws in place to protect those who have rental properties from stopping their landlords from going up, double their the prices and kicking them out of their homes.

So there's a lot of work that we need to do at the council level as well as the administrative level to develop the partnership to really put together a real housing plan that is going to be something that's going to have an impact in a positive way at the city of Cleveland.

So lastly, ending with that as a suggestion, I'm not gonna beat you up here at the table about your presentation.

Um I think that we need to try to barter to get those funds back as best we can.

If we can give Jimmy Haslam that money out of that fund, then we should ask them replace it out of that fund for us.

And we'll use the Jimmy Haslam as as a leverage to get money from the state of Ohio because we're losing 32 million dollars.

Is that a year we're losing it when they left here?

Is it 32 million dollars we're losing a year?

Uh through Chairman Councilperson.

I think we should use everything we got to show leverage to to be able to get more money back in the city of Cleveland is my suggestion.

So with that, Mr.

Chairman, thank you.

He's really good.

Um to this or what um through the chair to Councilman Jones, uh look, I I I will just say that one greatly appreciate all the work by Dr.

Margolius and his team as go through this again.

We're here at Health and Human Services, and I think uh want to make make sure that we're kind of keeping this focus on lead right now.

Uh I think we all know and understand that uh, you know, housing in Cleveland is an extraordinarily complex issue and one that we need to get our arms around.

Um, you know, fundamentally, Councilman Harsh and I talk about this a lot.

Uh, you know, our housing market is simply underwater, right?

And that it costs more to build a new home than oftentimes you could sell them for.

Uh, you know, and so ultimately I think a lot of what you're talking about uh is right and there's a lot of work for all of us to do.

Um, but I think you know, we should all not be naive enough to think and understand like look this is a dollars problem, right?

Um, you know, uh Philadelphia just came out with a new $2 billion housing plan that included an $800 million bond, $40 million for rehab, uh $25 million for soft mortgages, like all these sorts of things, right?

Like oftentimes when we talk about budgeting within the city of Cleveland, and and again, this is a city with an infinite need and a very limited amount of resources, right?

Like we're viewing it through the human beings that are working in these departments and small dollar amounts that go somewhere.

It's nowhere near enough money, right, to figure out kind of some of these large scale, like the capital necessary to really kind of eat at some of these issues.

So um again, that is a much bigger conversation than uh simply right here at Health and Human Services, just focus on lead, but but it is um one of the critical problems facing the city of Cleveland and something that we all need to continue to have conversation, figure out the right solution for.

Well, I really appreciate that that was a long answer, but uh and you certainly gave Dave McGullius a shout out.

So I think you're doing a wonderful job.

The only reason why I asked the question was because my initial question that I asked, Mr.

Chairman to Mr.

Um McNair was, you know, how do we deal with the issue?

And it was new housing was was one of the suggestions.

And and so we haven't faced the issue of new housing as we should.

So that was the reason why I'm giving I had gave that suggestion.

So if you got you you mentioned and citing another city that is making that Philadelphia, is what you said, is making these kinds of investments, then we need to get serious like Philadelphia and make those same kind of investments uh in terms of new housing.

So how is Philadelphia doing it?

So th through the chair to Councilman Jones, again, spending a lot of time right now getting our arms around what a variety of different uh municipalities throughout the country are doing related to housing, and you know, again, um we can and will attract a module housing.

That is a part of it, right?

But like ultimately, I think to do the things that we need, like there will be more capital than currently exists in this conversation, and that's where we need to figure it out.

Yeah, no problem, Mr.

Chairman.

I yield to the chair.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Chair, I appreciate the moment.

Um I'm not gonna beat a dead horse.

Um we we're we're we're losing some funds that we desperately need.

Um but I do uh want to ask this through the chair.

I have I have become growingly appreciative of good bureaucrats, um, people that know how to work within a governmental structure and get things done.

And one of the main things that we hire people for here at City Hall is to manage programs.

Um and I know that the community development director is supposed to answer to the mayor.

I know he put uh a person sort of in between there, and your predecessor and the previous community development director are all gone.

Um so my question, my first question is through the chair to the chief.

Um, what work are you doing to ensure that all other programs are accounted for and properly that we have the timelines figured out and that somebody's assigned to those programs to manage them and make sure that if any deadlines come up, you're made aware of it with enough head time to do something.

So uh through the chair to councilman Harsh, as I mentioned, that that is something that we are uh right now.

So uh spending a lot of time on the third floor, getting to know folks, better understand the way things operate, uh actually kind of doing a contract audit right now uh with all these other things to better understand and again, some of this is just my education, right?

I'm not saying uh to your point, there are good folks that are kind of working on some of these things, right?

Like um, but I can't be helpful if I don't have a good baseline understanding of where things are and how they're operating and where the challenges are.

Uh, you know, one of the things that is my expectation uh of whoever we come in to um uh run that department, uh I care way more about your problems uh than your success stories right now, right?

Like until we better understand uh all right here's program X, Y, and Z, and here's the challenges with it, like that's the stuff we really need to dig into.

We will celebrate successes as they come, but we need to understand problems.

So that that is part of that kind of audit that I talked about is going on, and I hope to have more information on that in your future.

And you when would you be finished with the evaluation process?

Uh to uh the chair, I think we are um again hopeful to within the next couple of weeks at least be able to announce a new director of the department of community development.

Obviously, it'll take uh a couple of weeks to to get them in the building here, like I want to have that stuff done by the time they get in the building so that we can kind of say here's what's really going on here.

Um so within you know the next month.

Great question then when you finish with it, and then we know can you we need you to come back to the table to tell us at least to give us a progress review on uh overall uh audit.

Yeah.

All the books up there, so we know where we're at.

No surprises.

Understood.

One the chief said what you think.

I don't want to put words in your mouth.

What you think?

Well, well, I should have um drafty something within the next three or four weeks, right?

Um, and again, kind of broadly, like what are all the different contracts, where are they going to, what are the deadlines for those contracts, like are they you know how close they are to um are they in a good shape or are they not in good shape, all that kind of stuff?

After, and I hate to interrupt budget hearings, and budget hearings is is when like in the next couple of weeks.

Yeah, next week after that.

Next week.

After budget hearings, yeah.

But we'll do we'll um we'll do the audit then after budget hearings.

And we'll find them where it's at.

Mr.

Chair, one last question, if I may.

Um through the chair.

Um I know that uh Chief McNair, you came in a little bit past the ability to do exit interviews, but I also know that the previous community development director lost her right and left hand uh a few months before leaving herself.

Has there been any effort to reach out to those individuals, some of those high-ranking people that probably have really good insight about maybe different projects that they were sad to leave but felt they needed to?

Uh yeah, so through through the chair to councilman Harsh, uh don't don't mind saying this stuff, right?

Like uh have an outstandingly good relationship uh with uh Tony Scott, former assistant director who's now over at Kyoga County.

Uh he has actually been extremely helpful and there's been things that's like hey, don't know what's happening here.

What is your interpretation about that?

He's been happy to help uh and share with their uh you know, Tony Bango is somebody that I've known and been friends with for probably over a decade.

There's been uh that's a little bit on the other side of things, but like as as we've kind of heard things like hey, like what's going on with this, he's happy to pick up the sometimes we just need to recover information.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

And and you know, Tony left a really good uh uh um transition report uh that was put in there that's been very helpful in and of itself.

Um, you know, so again, uh simultaneously trying to uh dig and figure out as much information as possible to piece together and like on particular projects, um, if there is phone a friend opportunities that's right taking advantage of them.

Okay.

All right, thanks.

And Mr.

Chairman, just you know, one of the things I also want to suggest too is that when we have good employees, we pay them.

And I've had to sit here at this table and tell the council pay their people too.

So when you have good people, pay them.

And so to lose some some of this talent that you're talking about, these were some really good people we lost.

And so I would suggest, Mr.

Chairman, moving forward.

She was an executing um council member.

No, I'm not talking about her.

I'm not sure.

You know, you know what I'm talking about.

She was I'm not talking about her.

I'm talking about some that have left that were really good folks.

Uh and we want to try to take, I would say try to do the best we can, especially in critical positions.

You know, we we try to see what it is because we almost lost another couple of directors.

I had to get on the phone and talk to them and beg them to stay because they were just that good and the city couldn't afford to lose them.

And one of them I won't I'll tell you in private who it is, uh Mr.

Chairman.

Okay, but at the end of the day, if we if we if we can afford to pay some more extra to our people who do a good job, you know, I think you two gentlemen do a good job, and I think that we should pay you.

That you've earned your your your wage and your salary.

So where do me a favor?

Anybody that let's say a Trishan.

We audit them.

Yeah, exit interviews.

Exit interviews.

Anybody, we do the exit interviews, and then we audit too because it's not fair to the new person to come in and you never audit.

Yep.

No, you see what I'm saying?

So that way we know where we're at, and it started from a clean slate.

Everything I can to set this new individual up for success.

Got it.

So so what's your plans when we go downstate or we do what?

What do you think?

My assumption is they're not going to give that money up.

They've already played with it, what they're gonna do with the money.

So Councilman Conwell, uh yes, it it seems like they have they've made it very clear what they're doing here.

I think to Councilman Jones's point, we've been spending an awful lot of time with the Ohio Department of Development.

Uh, you know, ensuring that there is a good partnership there, uh, you know, and understanding that there may be situations like this where they have to move in a certain direction, um, but making it clear what the priorities are for the city of Cleveland, where we need their partnership and how we bring more resources into the city.

So what do you think?

So we because I'm I remember.

No, I'm not gonna talk about them.

I don't like losing money.

You know, lessons learned.

Where are you at?

So I again I I feel probably largest lesson learned here, you know, again, not to wait until two months before the grant period closing.

Uh, you know, I do think that if this was a conversation that we were having several months ago, uh, right, whether it was making the type of adjustment we did here at the end to see if that that can really move the needle, um, or are there more drastic measures we need to take to find ways to get the the dollars out the door.

Uh, you know, uh again, I I know that they had been communicating with the city of Cleveland, but uh, you know, I think on my level, just trying to make sure that I stay a little bit more aware so that and and that's why I said it's like the thing I ask most from folks, uh uh the directors of our departments that within our cluster.

Um, I want to celebrate all your successes, but make sure you're bringing me your problems.

Right.

Can't help if you're not coming to me like at our check-ins with like this is not working out well, we have a real challenge here, how do we address it, right?

Um that to me is um, you know, one of the most important things that I need to work on moving forward.

I hate for us losing money, and if we got the plan, I don't want to step on you guys' toes.

Go down state to get the dollars, but uh I want to say this about you, Chief.

Very, very good.

And you execute when I stop by, just like with you, I don't call you whenever and you execute well.

And every time you have told me something, um, it's like you turn around and you you get it done.

And I hate, but you got the baton now, and uh you gotta look at this.

You've executed very well, and um I hate you gotta deal with this right here, but uh we're dealing with it too.

So we deal with it all together.

And um I called you back this morning.

I saw it.

Uh let me know what you what you think, and um well, I'll see you later to later later tonight.

I believe yes, yes.

You think we need to go down there?

You think we need to go to the back of the back of the back of the house?

Let's chat later tonight.

Okay.

Um, give me some time to think on it throughout the day.

Yeah, because if I go and you not it it gets goofy.

Understood.

Yep.

Okay.

We'll meet.

I'm glad to see if you're not gonna be a good thing.