Let me put this on.

Okay.

Good morning, everyone.

Today is Tuesday, March 9th.

I would like to call the meeting of development planning and sustainability committee to order.

Madam Clerk, can you please call the role?

Present.

Here.

Right here.

Thank you.

We're gonna start with ordinance number 182-2026.

If everyone could pull up, which is designating Second Mount Olive Baptist Church, former St.

John's Lutheran Church as the Cleveland Landmark.

Carl and the team.

Good morning, everyone.

Good morning, Carl.

I think this is the first time you're here while I'm cheering, huh?

Welcome to you too.

Okay, yes.

Um, I would like to start by the introductions if everyone could introduce themselves.

My name is Ryan Campbell, uh Deacon Campbell.

Okay, repeat that, I'm sorry.

I am uh Ronnie Campbell, Deacon Campbell.

Deacon Campbell.

My name is Alfrieda James.

Uh my name is Reverend Anthony Park, our service corporate counsel for the church.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Begin.

Carl Brunches, Cleveland Landmark staff.

Good morning.

That's okay.

So Second Mount Olive Baptist Church, the former St.

John's Lutheran Church, was nominated by the Cleveland Landmarks Commission on December 11th, 2025.

The property is located in the Glenville Statistical Planning Area and Ward 9.

Transylvanian Saxons were an eth were ethnic Germans who moved to the Kingdom of Hungary beginning in the 12th century.

In the mid-19th century, there were changes in cultural philosophy in Hungary as Magarization was causing the destruction of all non-Hungarian culture.

After the various wars and treaties, Transylvania now lies within modern Romania.

Reverend Hans John Foysel immigrated to America in from Transylvania in 1921.

Upon arrival, he set out to create a new congregation serving Transylvania Saxons shortly after many families realized that they would be making their permanent home in America following World War One.

The first meeting was held at Saxonheim Hall on Dunison Avenue on June 4th, 1922.

But construction was quick, being completed on January 2nd, 1925.

During that span, he became a published author with his compilation Saxons Through 17th Centuries, a history of Transylvania Saxons in 1936, and organized the German American Resettlement Services, Inc., which was formed to aid and assist needy displaced persons of German ethnic origin whose lives were disrupted by political changes in post-war Europe.

In addition for the front of the church was designed in 1948 by architect Julius Bernesh, but not executed.

After Foysler's retirement and moved to Pastor Emeritus, Dr.

Henry Hodel took over the helm of the congregation in May 1960.

It was soon after that the congregation looked to a new location east of the city following its members, including the Foysels who had relocated to the suburbs.

The building was sold to Second Mount Olive Baptist Church, and the Saxons moved to temporary quarters in the American Legion Hall in South Euclid.

A new church was completed in 1963 at 100 Ford Drive Highland Heights.

They remained here to celebrate 100 years on September 18th, 2022.

One month later, on October 30th, the congregation officially closed.

Second Mount Olive Baptist Mount Olive Baptist Church was organized on October 18th, 1917, with 11 charter members in a storefront on East 38th Street between Scoville and Central Avenues.

It appears that these families had relocated from Alabama early in the first great migration, informed the fellowship almost immediately upon arrival.

Later they moved to an old house, which had been used as the Sir Moses Montefiore Hebrew School at 2495 East 35th Street behind Cory Methodist Church.

In April 1920, Reverend J.

E.

A.

Wilson paid $3,000 down on the $23,000 purchase price for his second German Evangelical Protestant Church of St.

Paul.

In June, the Cleveland Baptist City Mission Society acquired the property at the corner of Scoville Avenue and East 28th Street, excuse me, for the congregation.

In October 1926, the congregation officially became the owners of the church when the now named Cleveland Baptist Association sold the property to them for $13,000.

The church grew and prospered over the next three decades, but their time here would be coming to an end.

Second Mount Olives clock to leave started with the adoption of the St.

Vincent Center Urban Renewal Project on November 15th, 1957.

The project area stretched from East 19th to East 33rd Street between Woodland and Central Avenues.

The city began making land purchases in 1958.

Originally slated for housing, targeting professionals working downtown and at St.

Vincent's Hospital, reported rental difficulties in the Longwood and Garden Valley Urban Renewal Projects led the Federal Housing Administration to deny mortgages in the St.

Vincent area.

No longer considered for housing, the land was offered to Cuyahoga Community College, which was looking for a suitable site for a new campus.

The church property now sits within that footprint.

On January 12th, 1961, the church sold the property to the city and prepared to move to their new home.

On April 4th, 1961, 2nd Mount Olive Baptist Church received the property on Eddy Road and celebrated with an open house and ribbon cutting on June 8th.

They have been in the building ever since, serving the community in the past, hosting a Head Start program, Boy Scouts, daycare service, and voter registration drives during the 1960 civil rights era.

They continue in their service by providing a community pantry, outreach event for seniors, seven-week youth mentoring program, and hosting ward community meetings.

Nice and clean.

Beautiful.

And these sources that we used for this presentation.

There we go.

Thank you.

We needed to see that, thank you.

Beautiful church.

Thank you, Carl.

Does anyone want to add anything or any share?

Well, I'd like to.

Any comments?

Put the microphone a little bit closer to you.

Okay, sorry about that.

As a member of the Second Mount Olive Baptist Church, as a matter of fact, second generation from the migration.

My family has been at that church since 28th in Scoville.

The migration from Alabama, not only is it something that I can only say it this way, makes a heart feel good to know that there has been some progress in the city in our lives, and it makes a person feel committed to the fact that they have some roots in something.

Second Mount Olive has been there for me to encourage me on through some difficult times.

We have had many situations such as riots throughout the city and all type of violent things have gone.

But even in the midst of that violence, there has been a sanctuary, not only for me, but for many of the members of the community in Ward 9.

It's also very obvious that the ward, the community recognizes the church as a light in the darkness.

It's been going on for maybe about three years now.

We started handing out boxes or we call them snack packs, little things for the kids.

It was slow going because people are nervous when they see somebody standing in front of a church with things that they're just giving away.

You're not asking for any ID, you're not asking for where you live, what's your phone number.

We're not keeping count of them.

We're treating them as individuals who are in need.

This past Saturday, we gave out 60 boxes in a matter of an hour and 12 minutes.

We've had the ward 10 council meetings.

But because of our location, the ward showed up.

We have not had a ward 10, award nine council meeting with less than 30 people.

That shows an interest in the community, and that shows that we're centrally located for the community.

So as a member of the Second Mind Island Baptist Church, I am proud to say that we are vibrant and active in our community.

And it's more than just church, it's more than just the house of worship.

It's their ability to see people who profess the Lord and serve the Lord without any questions.

We're not looking to take your picture and put you on our web page because we gave you some food boxes.

We're looking to help individuals.

We're not seeking the publicity of or the recognition of helping people.

It's our common goal.

That's what I wanted to share with you all.

Thank you for sharing that.

And I'm I'm very excited that you're still active.

I grew up in a Pentecostal church, and I remember how active it was, and then as I grew up, I didn't see many churches, you know, outside of the four walls.

And so it's good to see and hear that there's still churches that use church, right?

And the building to serve others.

Yes.

So thank you for that.

Beautiful building, very clean.

I do want to ask one question.

What is a light bill?

A mountain in a building that's so large.

And and do churches get any type of assistance?

It's it's it's difficult for assistance because assist if you are not aware of a program, you're not aware of a program that gives you assistance, and many communities are especially community churches are not aware of the various programs that the government has and that the city has to assist with its upkeep.

Yeah, primarily we have to depend on our membership to supply all our needs because of the declining membership throughout the church community, sometimes it's difficult.

Our light bill can be a couple hundred dollars, and with membership declining, you only get a third of that to assist, not only with the light, but the gas and every other bill that's there, including pastor's salary.

And also renovations, right?

Renovations are perhaps one of the most difficult things now because of building code.

And the building was 1924, so building codes uh you have to update.

Yeah, your electrical box cannot be that standard box with the fuse.

Now you've got to have many things to comply with the building codes.

And if the membership doesn't contribute, it's difficult to get additional assistance.

Yes.

That's why I asked.

Well, thank you for that.

Um any questions from my colleagues?

Any questions from my colleagues?

No.

Well, no.

Well, okay.

Vice Chair.

Where is the church located?

I'm trying to find it on my map.

75780 Road.

Oh, 75780.

Okay, okay.

Sorry.

I somehow got into central level.

I think I was following the wrong line.

Okay.

Got it?

Okay, well, I'm hearing no other questions.

Um, ordinance number 182-2026 is approved.

Please sign on.

And you're done.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Congrats.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Let me make sure that says the right one.

27.

All right.

Yeah.

Okay.

Next up we'll hear ordinance number 27-2026.

Councilmember Conwell, an emergency ordinance designating Mount Moriah Baptist Church as a Cleveland Landmark.

Mount Moriah Baptist Church members.

Come up.

Grab that microphone over there.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Want to start by introducing yourself?

I know you introduced yourself to me.

He's like looking at me like I did that already, but to the committee.

Okay.

Dan Smith, Mount Mariah Baptist Church.

Okay.

I am Pat the Daryl, Mount Mariah Baptist Church.

Deacon Donald Dixon, Mount Mariah Baptist Church.

Deacon.

Okay.

Carl?

Carl Brunge's landmark staff.

Yeah, no.

We've met.

And actually you introduce yourself.

If you could start.

All right.

The Cleveland Landmarks Commission nominated Mount Mariah Baptist Church for landmark status on December 11th, 2025.

The church is located in the Glenville Statistical Planning Area, and Ward 9 is at the corner of St.

Clair Avenue and East 101st Street.

The congregation began as a mission when a few people met at the home of Edward and Mary Catley at 2235 East 70th Street in 1946.

On January 8th, 1947, before a large audience assembled at the main auditorium of 2nd Mount Sinai Baptist Church, the pastor Reverend David W.

Hill, assisted by other ministers of the city, organized Mount Moriah Baptist Church.

The Reveland the Reverend Ulysses G.

Eves, former assistant pastor at 2nd Mount Sine, was called to be pastor.

The congregation had been meeting in the Turner Gospel Singers Auditorium at 3212 Woodland Avenue before acquiring Maxbury's 40th Street Mission, aka Maxberry's Tabernacle at 2522 East 40th Street, pictured here.

Elizabeth Sarah Maxberry was an evangelist with the African Methodist Episcopal Zion denomination, preaching all over the Midwest and East Coast, and was referred to as Zion Gospels Whirlwind Preacher.

She had been preaching for more than 15 years when she purchased this property in 1943.

Mount Mariah's time on East 40th would be short-lived, though, after the passage of the Federal Housing Act of 1949, Cleveland was involved in multiple urban renewal projects in 1954, including the Interbelt Highway, Area B, and Area K, which would displace large amounts of African American residents.

This plan called for slum clearance and redevelopment of Area B between 33rd and East 40th Streets, Scoville Avenue on the north and Woodland Avenue on the south, which is about 39 acres.

This included the demolition of about 300 buildings and would affect around a thousand families.

Mount Mariah's location on the west side of East 40th Street placed it on the eastern boundary of the project, necessitating finding a new location.

The church sold the property to the city in October 1954 and moved to the Glenville neighborhood.

They became known as the Glenville Evangelical and Reform Church after the merger of the Evangelical Synod of North America and the Senate of the Reformed Church in the United States in 1934.

In 1944, Reverend Roy Gieselman was called to serve both this congregation and North Congregational Church at East 72nd in St.

Clair.

The following year, these two congregations were officially united, in which the plane dealer referred to a project dramatizing in miniature the proposed union of the Congregational Christian and Evangelical and Reform denominations.

Due to declining members, a decade later, the two congregations would split and merge with others within their own denominations.

Three years later, a merger of the two denominations to create the United Church of Christ became official.

In 1962, membership of Mount Mariah had increased to a point where the current building was no longer adequate.

It was decided to demolish the old building and create a new one.

They hired an architect who was still in the first decade of his practice to design it.

Robert P.

Madison is a significant figure in the world of our architecture, despite facing racism early in his education and career.

He is a Cleveland native, born in 1923.

Following in his father's path, he attended college at Howard University.

He placed his studies on hold to serve in the Army in a segregated unit during World War II.

In 1946, he was initially denied admission to Western Reserve University's School of Architecture due to his race.

He was finally admitted under return after returning in his military uniform, including his Purple Heart and three battle ribbons.

He became the first African American to graduate from the program, and despite his awards, local architecture firms refused to let him complete an application.

He was finally hired by architect Robert A.

Little after offering to work for free.

In 1950, he became the first African American registered to practice architecture in Ohio.

He returned to Howard University and earned his master's degree in 1952.

He won a Fulbright fellowship to study at the Ecolide de Beaux-Arts in Paris.

Upon his return, he accepted a faculty position at Howard University.

In 1954, he founded the first black-owned architectural firm in Ohio and only the tenth in the United States, operating out of a house at 1335 East 105th Street.

He was later joined by his brothers Julian Bernard, graduates of the School of Architecture and Engineering at Howard University to form Madison Madison Madison Architects and Engineers.

Throughout the 1960s, the firm earned commissions locally, nationally, and internationally.

Bernard left for Baltimore in 1970 to start his own business, and the company was renamed Madison and Madison.

It was one of the largest minority-owned architecture and engineering firms headquartered in the United States.

Julian left Cleveland in 1983 to oversee the branch offices in Detroit, Milwaukee, and Chicago, and the firm was renamed Robert P.

Madison International Inc.

Robert P.

Madison International continues to contribute significantly to the architectural landscape of Cleveland.

The firm has trained some 200 African American architects, engineers, and planners since its inception.

Madison founded the Ohio Association of Minority Architects and launched the Robert P.

Madison Scholarship in Architecture for African Americans.

He has been lauded multiple times for his contributions throughout his groundbreaking career.

In May of 1963, the congregation began using their new church, and they were agreed with the creations of another significant artist.

Douglas Phillips moved to Cleveland when he was 17.

And after serving in the Army during World War II, he returned and attended the Cleveland Institute of Art and later Syracuse University, studying portraiture and illustration.

He is believed to be the only African American artist to run his own stained glass studio in Ohio and perhaps the nation between the years of 1952 and 1995.

Phillips stained glass studio had a reputation for museum quality restoration and was receiving a large number of commissions for religious and secular buildings within Ohio and other cities throughout the United States and England.

Phils was particularly adept at fusing traditional religious symbols with a more contemporary approach to lines and color.

He broke from traditional Gothic themes and incorporated the energy from his fascination with the space program, jazz, and modern art.

He introduced dynamic form and sweeping ribbons of color into stained glass beginning in the mid-1950s.

In an article for Ebony magazine comparing painting and stained glass in 1971, he noted, in viewing stained glass, your eye experiences light that has passed through the entirety of the glass.

The beauty depends not just on the intensity and direction of the sun, but also the depths and nuances of the colors inside the glass.

Not only did he work in portraiture and stained glass, but also in lighting.

He was involved in the General Electric Christmas lighting display at Neela Park for 16 years.

He was a member of the Stained Glass Association America and the Illuminating Engineering Society of North America.

He was also elected to the Royal Society of Arts in England.

The example shown here is from Greater Friendship Baptist Church, which was formerly the first Evangelical Reformed Church.

This is one of the last commissions he had.

And that congregation is also in the Glenville area.

Now in this building for more than six decades, the congregation has been an anchor in the community, providing support programs and celebrating cultural identity.

And here is our building.

Still there.

Don't have any additional information on that, though.

There's a portion that may need some restoration work at.

And I would like to thank you for your time on this one.

Thank you, Carl.

They just don't make buildings like that anymore.

Not anymore.

Anyone, Pastor, Deacon, anyone want to share any additional comments?

Yes, if I may.

First of all, I would I'm gonna thank Carl for doing a beautiful job.

Getting our information and thank everybody here for allowing us to come and share.

Just want to uh let you all get a feel of dealing with Robert Madison.

Uh he came out when we had a service to dedicate our windows again and get familiar what they mean.

Uh and he has a story that he gave me part of it.

But he went in detail when he was gonna serve some things that happened, just make chills working down your bank.

Yeah, he was able to go through all of that and come out and be denied here.

But he did it to stop him.

He kept going.

Uh Ma Raya, I've been the member of Mount Riot since July of 1960.

And been through some hard times when the church was flourishing, falling off, but we are still there and doing the best that we can to serve the community.

There were pastor, uh Reverend William Brown.

Everybody on the 101st Street knows him because whether he was a member or not, if something happened, he would tell that time our deacon, go help them.

Had nothing to do with membership.

That's what somebody passed on, they didn't have nowhere to go.

They didn't belong to the church.

He would allow them to use our facilities to come in and have some services, decent services.

Those kind of things has really touched me and instilled me to keep along with my pastor now, Mom Mariah going as a community church, and not just those four walls inside, but reaches on the outside.

That people should see that this world can be a better place if we just love one another and do the right thing.

My thing is that I tell him you take care of God's people, then God will take care of you.

Thank you very much for hearing us.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

We are like just mental.

We are our family community church.

We represent St.

Clair from 105 all the way down to 8A.

We don't we open our door to anyone that's welcome to come in.

And we lend a helping hand.

We have a building across the street called The Liberty Building.

Y'all know all about that building.

So we serve them once or twice a month with food and stuff.

And so we open that for them to come in to eat.

And they share and they come in.

We don't take them as they are.

Because God said, you know, love your not even love your friend as you love yourself.

So we show love to our community and to the people there.

And we also have give back.

We have clothes he passed out to them.

They come, they welcome to have whatever they have.

And we just stand on the count on the shoulder of the pastors who are the head of that.

And we just carrying on the legacy that they had laid before us, showing that love and understanding how we can make it together, not apart.

Mount Barieth is a church that stands together, and we are quite tight-knit family.

And we love one another.

We love the city of Cleveland.

And we welcome the city in tall home.

God told us, shows us how to love one another.

And with the help of you all, and I once again want to thank God for the presentation and thank y'all for listening to us.

But we are there to help and serve the people of God in our community.

Thank you.

And God liked what they do.

Thank you.

Very inspiring morning.

Okay.

Um any questions from my colleagues?

Vice Chair Harsh?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Through the chair.

I'm really fascinated by the story of Robert Madison, the first African American architect in the state of Ohio.

That's a really distinguished position to hold.

Um, through the chair, do we know this building was his construction design, right?

Um, do we know where this fell in terms of his work output?

Was this like the first building he did, the last building he did?

Was this one of dozen churches he did in the city of Cleveland?

Do we know where this falls in terms of his work?

Uh earlier, there were some other ones as a matter of fact, he is actually still alive at 102 years old.

I was gathering.

I was gonna ask you that he was still with us.

Yes.

Okay, yeah.

Uh fantastic.

Yes.

Uh so this is fairly early on.

There are, I think there is a couple of actually, it's interesting.

Mount Mariah's former location now has a church built on it that was designed by him as well.

Which might be slightly earlier than that.

Okay.

This one.

So, yeah, it this is early, but he enjoyed making churches.

Yeah.

So that's fascinating.

I I I I want to thank you through the chair for for preserving this history.

Uh, this is I I I wish I'd said it when the other folks were here too, but every time people come to the table to preserve a piece of Cleveland's history, it means something for the past generations for us and for the future generations.

And I I thank you for having the foresight uh to uh to to think about generations down the road because they'll be enjoying this this church for many, many generations to come because of you.

Thank you.

Yeah, agreed.

Any other questions?

Consulman Bishop.

Uh thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh Madam Chair, I just want to ask a few questions because uh ironically I have a meeting coming up with uh the firm Robert Madison coming up.

So was the Madison group part of the church, or is just they designed the church, and they were their architect on the church.

I believe they were just the uh through chair, uh just the architect on the church.

Okay, but he did, like I said, many throughout Cleveland.

He did many churches.

Okay, all right, thank you.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

No?

Hearing no other questions, ordinance number 27-2026.

Passes, please sign on.

Approved.

Congratulations, yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Congrats.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

So next up.

Okay, next up we have ordinance number 95-2026, Councilmember Palenzik, an emergency ordinance designating the beach land barroom and tavern, former Croatian Liberty Home as a Cleveland Landmark.

Carl and team, okay.

I'll have our guests come on up.

Come on up.

Good morning.

Is it still morning?

Yeah.

It is.

Okay.

Um if you would like to introduce yourself, please.

Uh Cindy Barber, co-owner at the Beach Line Bower.

Cindy.

Okay.

Uh David Elmer's uh operations manager.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, go ahead, Carl.

The Cleveland Landmarks Commission nominated the Beachland Ballroom and Tavern for landmark designation on January 8th, 2026.

I would like to acknowledge the work of former Merit Corps community surveyor Julia LaPlacla as her national registered questionnaire provided a great deal of information for this presentation.

The building is located in the North Collinwood neighborhood in Ward 10.

Croatians immigrated to Cleveland in large numbers between the 1860s and 1919, with immigration continuing through the 1980s.

In the 1860s, economic pressures by the ruling Habsburg Empire disrupted life in the Croatian-Slovonia Principality.

High taxes and trade restrictions forced roughly 20% of native native Croatian population to immigrate to America before World War One.

Many settled in regions with mining and steel production industries like Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

Later, hardship from the world wars and oppressed oppression from the communist revolution encouraged more Croatians to immigrate to the states.

On the east side of town, Croatian immigrants settled in Glenville, Euclid, Nottingham, and Collinwood, which are all near industrial centers.

The plot was originally purchased in 1931 under the name Croatian Liberty Home Inc.

The Croatian Liberty Home was founded in Collinwood in 1906.

The society helped its members get insurance and assisted with burial costs.

The Croatian Liberty Group also championed Croatian culture, hosting numerous events and celebrations.

In 1937, a frame house on the east side of the plot was converted into a club by adding a basement and a one-story brick building to the front of the existing house.

After two decades of fundraising by four Croatian fraternal groups, plans to erect a 100,000 dollar building on the west side of the plot began.

The firm of Matzinger and Grossel were hired to design the structure.

Paul Matzinger was a well-known architect, having designed numerous churches, apartment buildings, and terraces throughout Cleveland.

Several of his buildings are designated Cleveland landmarks or are contributing structures to historic districts, including most recently the first Hungarian Reform Stone Church on East 79th Street.

In his partnership with Grossell, they designed commercial structures, including multiple theaters such as the Mayland and Halley's department store at the Southland Park Shopping Center.

Rudolf Grossell first appears as an architect in the 1936 Cleveland City Directory.

Prior to his partnership with Massacre, he had a few smaller projects listed in the newspapers.

After Matzinger retired, he partnered with Richard Jensen until 1971.

They continued work on apartment complexes and commercial commercial structures, such as the Giant Tiger Discount Center in Willoughby and the Federal Department Store at the Westgate Shopping Center.

The hall opened in April 1950.

Over the next three decades, it hosted Croatian cultural events as well as union meetings for various industrial workers.

In addition, in addition to the rear of the building was built in 1976.

In the 1980s, the decision to relocate their community space to the East Suburbs following the trajectory of many longtime Croatian families who were moving out of Cleveland proper.

In 1984, a new Croatian lodge was dedicated in East Lake on Lakeshore Boulevard.

The sprawling 2.5 million dollar building is still a popular venue for Croatian cultural events, weddings, and other gatherings.

The Croatian Liberty home was briefly placed on the market in 1991.

In 2000, the building was acquired by Cindy Barber and Mark Letty.

Soon after they launched their new venue, the Beachland Ballroom, with a smaller approximately 150-person tavern opening first.

This was followed a month later by the approximately 450 person ballroom's first concert.

In an article in the playing deal at the time, as Barbara was quoted as saying, the place will rejuvenate the neighborhood.

There are a number of significant bands that have played in the building over time, but two to note our first an early appearance of the White Stripes in support of their first album.

The White Stripes were just inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2025.

In 2002, the future multiple Grammy Award-winning band out of Akron, Ohio, the Black Keys, play their first live performance.

The building has played host to artists spanning multiple genres of music.

In 2003, the neon signage was added in the in concert with the city's storefront renovation program, and the parking lot and site being improved the following year, including the demolition of the original clubhouse.

The Beach Land Ballroom and Tavern has been an anchor to revitalize the business district along Waterloo Road.

In 2002, the nonprofit Waterloo Arts was formed to enrich the neighborhood culturally and economically by creating a stimulating arts environment through equality exhibits, performances, special events, and educational programming for people of all ages.

Today, the Beachland Ballroom Tavern is one of many arts and cultural institutions on Waterloo Road.

This area has been designated by community members as the Waterloo Arts District.

Numerous murals, gallery spaces, and renovated buildings give the neighborhood an eclectic flavor.

Following the tradition of the Croatian Liberty home, the beachland contributes to the ever-evolving culture of the Waterloo Arts District through its concerts, community space, food, and retail businesses.

In 2020, the site was surveyed by Miss La Plata as part of a national restaurant questionnaire.

It was determined that the property appears to be eligible for a nomination to the National Register of Historic Places for significance under Criterion A as a property significant for its association with Eastern European ethnic history in Cleveland at the local level.

And then we did a site visit.

In the basement, there is a green room, an office, and a vintage and record store.

And here are the addition entrance ballroom.

Thank you, Carl.

And is the lighting still there?

I mean, is this a recent picture?

Photo?

Do you run at all outside of just Croatian board?

We do.

We just did a wedding last week.

Oh, nice.

A rock and roll wedding, yes.

I just told Councilman Harsh, I need to get out more.

I stay in my ward too much.

Very nice thank you for preserving this landmark.

So do you want to comment?

Um I just want to tell Chris that uh XCSB is moving in next door, and we're gonna start live streaming from our nonprofit building.

So yeah, it's wonderful.

Um, and results, but um thank you all, and thanks, Carl, for following through with all of this, all the different steps.

Um, you know, we continue to try to push for Waterloo work, and we're just purchasing a parking lot around the corner um to uh get more parking and make sure that Waterloo continues to be a safe place so we continue to reinvest in our ward.

Thank you.

Thank you for investing.

Any questions from my colleagues?

Go ahead, boys.

Madam Chair, I'd be remiss if I didn't comment on the beachland ballroom here at the table for historic uh preservation status.

I I I I have to remind myself that we're we're we're declaring the building historic, not the beach land.

Because the beach land has many, many more years left to go.

Um I would point out though, uh Cindy is a very humble person, I think the Beachland might be the only music venue in Cleveland that has multiple songs named after it.

Artists are so impressed by their experience in playing at the beach land that they then go home and write songs called the Beachland Ballroom.

I know you've got two.

Two, right.

There's there might be more out there.

I think there's only two.

There's only two.

Well, I mean, other people have said the words in their song, but it's not named Beach Lane Boat, right?

But the idols song is crushingly beautiful and an incredible tribute to uh what you've built there, and um it does all of Cleveland proud every time we hear it.

Oh, thank you.

Um through the chair, the Beachland is an absolute gem.

It's it's it's its place in the Cleveland music landscape cannot be overstated.

I I I looked at your list of of uh shows that you had up there, and I think I was at a couple of them, but you had Daniel Johnston, you did the Parubu, the Rocket from the Tombs reunions.

I saw two pale boys there.

The one of the pale boys only has three fingers.

Did you ever notice that?

I did not.

So he plays the saxophone, he's only got three fingers, and his hand fits most perfectly because it only has three, you know, uh knobs on the saxophone.

I spent an hour and a half staring at this man's hand and at the beach land one night, um, because it was more fascinating than anything Dave was doing.

Um but as a cultural center, uh anchoring the Waterloo Arts District, the Beachland Ballroom is probably the most integral piece of that entire district.

I'm so excited to be able to pass this for you.

Um I thank you for everything you've done for the people of Cleveland, for the community in Cleveland, and look forward to seeing everything else you do for the rest of your uh and and for forever and ever.

Well, our mission is to um really work on making Cleveland a music city again, and we have an amazing amount of talent here, and we need to recognize that and all work together because we could be bringing more tourism and more work um capacity to our own um musicians by upping that a little bit.

So I'm hoping to work with you in the future on some of those initiatives.

Absolutely, and growing our cults, our arts and culture community is something you do so so well.

They have two stages, so they can always have the local bands can play in the tavern side while the big band plays on the on the ballroom side, and you get a lot of clock cross uh uh pollination there.

Um so local bands get really great exposure at the beach land, and uh they feed the traveling acts, and we're very famous uh for feeding them well.

A lot of traveling acts don't get very good food when they're on the road, but at the beach land they always had a good dinner for everybody.

Um and uh earned a reputation amongst traveling bands is a great place to play for that reason as well.

Thank you.

You're gonna have to look for those YouTube um those songs on YouTube.

I want to hear it.

Oh, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Councilwoman Hudson.

Okay.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, I I have to I have to also comment.

Um when you're going through your slides and you you have the that this is gonna give away my age, but I was actually at that show of the white stripes and in 2000, and um my friend Frank was doing the food at the beachland at the time, and I he asked, you know, would you like to serve them food?

And so I'm like, well, of course.

So I actually um brought them their food in the basement, and so I had the opportunity to meet Jack and Meg White at the Beachland.

So that's a memory that I'll treasure forever.

And um, I have two 20-something nephews who live in Columbus, and um I it never fails that they are it is the Beachland Ballroom that constantly brings them from Columbus up to Cleveland.

So um thank you for um uh you know maintaining this Cleveland treasure, and um I look forward to attending many more shows in the future.

Thank you.

Councilwoman Gray.

Yes, thank you.

Um I appreciate um I appreciate the beach one ball one too because years ago, first time I went to it, I went to see Yellow Man.

It was uh in the summer, a friend uh invited me there, and it was the best fun I ever had.

Never knew it was there.

It was like a hidden gym.

We stayed, and I jammed um to the night.

And from that point on, I do attend it regularly, you know, with the political event, with the social events you have.

It's a beautiful location, it's a beautiful place, so I uh support um this uh um this landmark.

Thank you so much.

You welcome.

Thank you.

Um Councilman Davis.

Yeah, we're just piling on now.

Um the chair of the first show I saw when I got back to Cleveland after law school was Bishop Briggs at the ballroom.

It was great.

It's like 2018, so it's been a few years, but the I've been to a number of benefits of the Beachland Ballroom and your space has been a community gathering place and not just a music venue.

Like that's adjusted the first place.

Um grateful for your continued contributions to our community.

Love Waterloo.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Wow, see?

So um hearing no other questions, thank you for your remarks.

Um95-2026 has been approved.

Um please sign on.

I don't know if they were one of the reading room out of West Park.

I mean West Park.

They're just using that as a um fiscal agent.

Okay.

So they're gonna be in the building.

Yes.

In the window.

Okay.

Yes.

And then they're um we're gonna work with my nonprofit, Cleveland Rocks.

So we're building out that building.

Thank you.

Okay, yeah.

I mean, I would still like to get 80 reback.

I would love chat too.

They can do both then.

It could do both.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Should I do the tax increment financing the summer?

And then we have our same.

Yeah.

If you you read the conversation, it's easy to see just what we'll do.

All right.

Um, next up we have ordinance number 98-2026.

All right, right there.

Okay, perfect.

An emergency ordinance um by council members Davis Santana and Griffin, an emergency ordinance authorizing the director of development to enter into tax increment financing agreement with Westinghouse Breakwater Properties LLC, or its designee TW58 Cleveland LLC, and or another designate to assist with the financing of the Westinghouse Redevelopment Project to be located in 1200 West 58th Street to provide for payments for uh to the Cleveland Metropolitan School District and to declare certain improvements to real property to be a public purpose.

Sorry, these glasses are getting foggy.

Hi, good morning.

Good morning, director.

Good morning, Chair and members of the committee.

Um today we're here to introduce a redevelopment project known as Westinghouse, um located at 1200 West 58th Street.

Um the project proposes to bring 158,000 square um a square foot vacant building back into productive use, transforming it into new residential housing at a time where Cleveland continues to see strong demand for additional quality housing options across our neighborhoods.

Um projects like this help expand the range of housing choices available in the city while reinvesting in existing structures that have been underutilized for years.

Um the um the redevelopment will create 116 residential um units, including 106 market rate units and 10 affordable units, representing a significant prime private investment in um on Cleveland's West Side.

Um the development is being led by TW58 Cleveland, and the team is seeking the city's support um through two tools that this committee is familiar with tax increment financing and um property assessed clean energy financing known as PACE.

Um these tools allow us to support projects that move catalytic redevelopment forward um while leveraging private capital and ensuring long-term value for our communities.

So before we go through specifics, I'd like to introduce Dave Fishbeck, a partner with TW58 Cleveland.

And the all-star Bobby Bruno, who's a project manager with the Department of Development.

And I'll turn it over to you, Bobby.

Good morning, Chair.

Good morning, committee.

So I'll talk a little bit about the developer, the project, and then the two tools that we're requesting authorization to utilize this morning.

So TW58 Cleveland will be leading this.

Mr.

Fishback is here with us today.

So great, we got good local experience team on this project.

And we've got a an old vacant uh really large-scale sort of landmark property.

Uh so this is 1200 West 58th, that uh old Westinghouse Tower that kind of sticks out at you as you're driving west from downtown along the shoreway.

Uh it was constructed back in 1898.

Uh, it has industrial zoning, so the use proposed here is certainly far less intense than what's allowable.

Uh and the structure was constructed for manufacturing of aluminum and brass uh castings.

The project, as uh director shared, uh 106 market rate apartments, uh, ten of which will be affordable, uh, a new commercial office, uh retail and restaurant space, sort of in that uh facade that gets taller as you get towards the middle there in the picture.

Uh there will be a creation of some new jobs, uh very modest that that we're capturing here for the management of the residential community.

Uh since the end users for the commercial space haven't been finalized yet, uh, we're not gonna speak to those jobs yet.

Uh, and a total project cost of about 81 million dollars going into this.

Uh there is a list of the sources and uses.

Uh you could see that uh there will be uh primary bank loan financing uh as well as PACE loan financing.

Uh CDA is participating, the Port of Cleveland's participating.

Um the city's already participated with a small NDP grant of about 32,000.

Uh and you can also see there that the county is funding this.

Um so uh tremendous amount of equity, tremendous amount of funding sources going into this uh construction project.

Community benefits, uh as with uh any incentive of this scale that we bring to the committee.

Uh there will be an expanded CBA on this one, uh which will have the standard things like MBE, FBE, CSB.

Uh there will also be the construction of four speed tables near the project site, uh, the installation of public bicycle parking racks, uh funding for the nearby Herman Park Trail.

I believe that's 50,000 in funding, as well as streetscape and site beautification all along uh West 58th near the development.

Uh so the tools that uh we're asking to utilize.

So PACE financing, this is the property assessed clean energy financing.

Uh and that's Ohio revised code saying uh you have some clean energy improvements that you want to do will let you pay those uh improvements back through your property taxes rather than a traditional bank note, uh which has some favorable terms for the developers and property owners at times, and so uh that's gonna provide up to uh $15 million in financing over a 28-year term for this.

Uh and that would contribute to construction improvements like roofing, HVAC, other building envelope, insulation, uh, electrical that uh exceeds energy codes.

And then the TIFF.

There it is.

Uh also requesting uh authorization to enter into a tax increment financing agreement for this deal.

Uh it would be a 100% 30-year non-school tax increment financing agreement.

This would provide a benefit to the developer over the course of the term of about 11 million dollars.

Uh during that time, CMSD in the city would benefit just over 23 million dollars between payments in lieu of taxes and newly created income taxes at the site.

Uh and so with that happy to uh take any questions or pass it to the developer and consultant if they'd like to see.

Do you want to share anything?

Comments first of all, first of all, I just wanted to thank council for and the city of Cleveland for all the help you've provided so far.

And sticking with us uh on this project.

I think it's of course it's uh a landmark there on the curve there on the west side shore away.

Um I grew up driving by that with my father telling me about what was being made there, the lights and all that with Westinghouse.

So to be personally involved with this, um it's a big accomplishment for myself, and I'm really looking forward to uh getting this thing started.

Got it, thank you.

Would you like to comment?

Good morning, chairwoman and council members.

Uh very excited to be here today.

It's been several years that we've worked with the city and various public partners to figure out how to finance this behemoth of a project.

It's not eligible for historic tax credits, so that's a common tool you might see for some of these buildings that we're not able to take advantage of here.

Um and that's why the the pace and the TIFF financing are so critical to its redevelopment.

Happy to answer any questions you have.

Thank you.

Got it, thank you.

Um these this is my old um childhood neighborhood.

I remember Herman's Park, and to see it redeveloped like this is pretty exciting.

Um I do have some questions, some of them already, Bruno, that you have answered.

But um, what is affordable?

What are the rents for the 10 apartments?

Uh the the 10 units are workforce housing affordable at 120% AMI.

I think on the latest calculation from 23 data, it's somewhere from 1400 to 1500 a month.

But we can follow up with what that calculation is.

And that's one bedroom.

Uh probably one bedroom and studio units, correct?

Well, still high.

Um what is the total investment value for the redevelopment project?

To the chair.

Uh okay, I missed that one.

Those would be the total uh the total level of capital investment.

Um how that will be valued as a real estate, we won't know until after all the improvements are made to clarify, Chairwoman, there's two phases of this project.

Phase 1A is probably around 55 million, phase one B is the remainder, so 25.

Okay.

What is the timeline for the project?

Uh well we this building permit for the shell building was issued last week, and we've awarded a number of contracts and krills ready to start working on May 1st and should be completed in within 18 months to two years.

Yeah, okay.

That's pretty quick.

Director, um the CBAs.

Uh the TIFF, um, the the tax dollars.

So does that happen?

Do we provide funding or we we are proving it today?

The CBA, is that already in place, and how do we measure the success of CBAs while aligning it with the approval of the TIFF?

Um I believe the CBA was was it was executed.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, perfect.

It's fully executed.

Okay.

Yes.

And I belie OEO um, I think tracks um deliverables uh from the CBA.

And the council person is involved in the CBA process, correct?

Okay.

Um so those are my questions.

I will open it up to my colleagues.

Um councilman help.

Yep.

Yeah.

Okay, yeah.

Works for me.

Through through the chair.

Thank you all for being here today.

This is uh a really exciting project.

This building has been there as long as I've been alive and uh longer than most of us, and to see it turn into something not just you know a symbol of what we were, but what we can be is the potential here is really exciting.

So I I'm thrilled to see 116 units uh pop up in a neighborhood that God knows needs the housing.

Uh we're low.

Um just to clarify the uh former councilwoman Jenny Spencer negotiated the CBA.

Um, was very happy to follow in her footsteps.

She did all the hard work and credit where it's due.

Um the improvements to Herman Park are gonna be uh very valued by the community.

The four speed tables, it's a big thing for me.

Very excited about that.

And maybe it to the table here.

Could you just talk a little bit more about the infrastructure improvements that are visualized through the CBA or through the construction process?

The infrastructure is as far as the we're gonna be bringing into the site new new water lines and uh new streetscaping.

We're gonna up down up along West 58th Street.

Uh and then in that park area, we're looking to do something for you guys in that area.

Through the chair, exactly I could have clarified better by infrastructure.

I was talking about streetscaping and yes, the sidewalks and all that as well.

So the whole that block is going to be experiencing a big change.

Could you just go on a little more?

Um I guess uh really to make it safer, uh we're gonna you know have good lighting uh and really beautify the whole area with the landscaping and new sidewalks, the building itself is gonna be beautiful.

Uh the phase two uh new building would be a tremendous asset and upgrade to the uh area also.

It's great.

And then through the chair, just for the the our collective clarification, is this this is not a brown field site, is it?

Is there the finger goes up?

Um through the chairwoman to the councilman, it was a brown field and it's been largely remediated.

They're just waiting on some um final paperwork from the state of Ohio to close it out.

Through the chair, that that's great.

Did did you all remediate it?

Where did the remediation come from?

Yes, Dave Dave and Jim and team remediated it over the last three years.

There we go.

So thank you for remediating it, even without having this agreement in place, but because you believed in the potential of the site and the project.

Thank you.

I'm I'll leave it there.

Thank you.

So you are in support, right?

Absolutely, yes.

Please turn this abandoned building into housing.

Thank you very much.

Uh Councilman Harris.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um I I I I'll I'll get going here in a minute, but I just want to clarify I think we did see this a couple of years ago.

This came through, and remind me what the issue was then.

I know we were prep prepping then, but I recall this location coming up.

Yeah, through the chairwoman to the councilman.

I I think that was the chain of title legislation, second half of last year.

I don't believe there were any issues prior to that for the specific site.

The brown field funding came from the state and the county.

Okay, I might be confusing it with a different project then.

Um through the chair, how long have you has this project been in the works?

Uh it's been an award.

It's been in the works for four four and a half years.

Four and a half years.

Uh thank you.

Uh I'm chair, I I I bring that up because I'm I'm working on a project in old Brooklyn that's about half this size, and it's been about five years, and boy, the ground moves underneath us and it moves in mysterious ways.

Um there's been substantial changes at HUD uh just in the last you know uh 16 months.

Um there's been a lot of uncertainty in the banking industry and pulling together projects like this and building your capital stack.

You can have it ready to go three years ago, and then something happens, you've got to readjust your capital stack and you've got to make sure that everything still maths out.

Um and pulling these projects together is really, really difficult.

Um I am a big supporter of all of these projects when we can take big empty pieces of land and put ha r uh housing units on them.

Let's do it.

Um when I moved to Cleveland 20 years ago, there were 20,000 more houses in the city than there are now.

And those 20,000 houses housed about 60,000 people.

Um and when we had to demolish our way out of the foreclosure crisis, uh, we lost a lot of our excess housing capacity in the city, and we saw prices go up as a result.

Uh affordable housing in the city of Cleveland, Madam Chair, through the to our to our friends, ought to come from the houses in the neighborhood, but we can't do that because the people uh are crammed into those houses, the people it means and by building these units, which I understand the prices make some people's eyes grow wide, um, but that relieves the stress on the individual housing market that provides rental to everybody else in the city of Cleveland through the chair to uh anybody at the table.

Um this construction site is surrounded by some other newer construction, the Edison and Gordon Square, some other stuff like that.

Through the chair, does anybody know what the occupancy rate in those units is right now?

Are they completely occupied or is there a big vacancy rate?

Do we know?

Uh through the chairwoman to the councilman.

This is my gut non-specific data, but the near west side housing is very well occupied.

Um I suspect it's over 90% at the Edison with the well-in-I'm not sure, which is the next closest newer project.

Yeah.

I always hear 90% plus every single time a new building comes up.

The developers tell me that they got 90% lease before they open.

That's correct.

Uh that's my understanding also from Yeah.

Um, which just demonstrates that there's still more demand in the market to create more housing, and frankly, if the city's going to grow, the city has to create more housing.

So I'm always excited and happy to support these projects.

Um last thing I want to say was uh uh what was the last thing I wanted to say?

Um maybe I forgot.

But I can ramble for a second, see if I remember.

Oh, the building itself.

Um the uh yeah, so there I'm looking at the street view of it, and it's pretty interesting.

Um part of it uh is that sort of like triangular looking structure that looks like that that plan is that looks hollow on the inside.

Like your plan is to keep the facade on that as just historical preservation, or what is that?

Like what is that?

Well, we're we're examining that as we speak with our structural engineers.

Um right now that facade is pretty well deteriorated.

And in order to remove the back of the building, we're we're not seeing that um a real good chance of being able to save that facade.

Um this is an old rendering.

Um I thought we had some new ones sent over, but we'll get those over to you.

But we're looking to either replicate or do something to honor that uh image.

The tower building, uh we're gonna spend over close to a million and a half dollars on the restoration work on the exterior facade.

Um it's in pretty bad shape as we speak, also.

So there's a lot of a lot of work to do here.

Yeah.

So the plan is to keep the building on the right is already standing, it's just modernized in this rendering to show some steel and glass on the one side instead of what looks like I don't know what that is, concrete and plastic.

Um but then new construction behind it.

Yes, that's correct.

Okay.

There's a new parking garage that's gonna provide the parking for all the residents going in right underneath of that existing triangular shaped building.

Okay.

So that's why that building is being torn down.

Um it's also structurally not stable.

Yeah.

And there's still uh a little bit of work to be done to stabilize it.

But we're gonna take that down.

We're gonna uh create a 106 or so parking garage underneath that, and then phase one B will be a new tower building of about five stories on top of that parking garage.

Okay.

And then lastly about the uh the non-school TIFF.

Um currently this property, do we know what the property tax payment is on this property right now?

I think you do.

This is this is always my favorite part because right now I'm gonna guess that this property pays less than $10,000 a year.

No, we is it more than that.

It might be around 80,000 per year.

Uh it's 163,000 per year.

So 80,000 first payment.

Okay.

It's paying them I just paid the amendment last week.

It's paying 163,000 a year for a big empty piece of land with a decaying building on it.

Um instead of that, we're going to invest 80 million dollars and then get 23 million for the city schools.

That's a good deal for the city of Cleveland.

That's a very good deal to take a property that's doing very little.

160,000 is not isn't nothing.

I'm not I'm not sneezing at it.

It's it's it's not a nothing payment.

But 23 million is a far cry better for the city.

Um as well as housing units for so many more people to come join us in this great city.

So uh that's all, Madam Chair, thank you uh for uh I'm happy to support this project.

Thank you.

Councilman Slife.

Um thank you.

And and to kind of build off what I wasn't gonna say, but build off a point of uh Councilman Harsh.

Uh a when I was in graduate school, uh this kind of for the body, uh a data point that was given to us was that Cleveland's population decline from peak is half out migration and half smaller household size.

And I think we spend a lot of time talking about the out migration, but we don't spend a lot of time talking about the smaller household size.

And I bring it up because it's not intuitive, but and and maybe the data have changed since then.

But at the 2020 census, Detroit Shoreway had actually lost population compared to the 2010 census, despite all of this new housing.

Uh and that is because we are attracting a lot of people that are maybe a singular household, but we are losing maybe people that are start to have kids and they age out, or the neighborhood that I represent, the ward that has 25,000 residents because that's how much a ward has in 1970, the same geography had 40,000 people.

So uh so I think it really speaks to if we want to grow the city's population.

Uh we uh and assuming people don't want to have 12 kids anymore.

Um although I'm doing my part.

We're gonna we're gonna need more housing units.

We're gonna need more housing units.

Um three's the new seven, so we're done at three.

Three is the new seven, four kids, that's twelve.

That's crazy.

Um so I but I bring it up because even in neighborhoods where we've seen this explosive residential growth, it still hasn't caused the population, it hasn't caused what we would think of as this population explosion.

It's we're really struggling to replace people who are leaving uh and having to deal with the ramifications of smaller household sizes.

Um that was that.

Uh and then through the chair to the director, get your life preserver.

We're having a jumping into the stream of consciousness.

For contrasting a TIFF versus the pace, I understand the multiple legislative steps for a TIFF.

We have to insert ourselves into the chain of title.

And then ultimately we are agreeing to deprive ourselves of and I guess others of property taxes.

We are not a level of government that is overly reliant on property taxes.

I think it's 12 to 15 cents on the dollar or something, but I understand why we'd want to have that conversation.

Contrast that with the pace.

There's legislation, standing legislation that established the district.

And then under revised code, people have to petition to assess themselves an additional property tax.

So this is not a case where we are paying for the pace at our own expense.

We are authorizing someone to charge themselves more money to pay for clean energy improvements through the director is is I I struggle to understand why we wouldn't pass pace legislation.

Have at it.

And I'm wondering if there's a worthwhile conversation on some omnibus pace legislation that would absolve the individual property or uh developer of having to go through this process so that they can charge themselves money.

Um through the chair to the councilman.

Um I currently have on my whiteboard pace legislation in bold, um, because I absolutely think that that's something that I'd like to have a conversation about and and push forward.

Okay.

That I think I think I would be happy to help uh walk through that with you because this just seems in a as we are trying to find ways to get projects from concept to shovel in the ground more efficiently.

I'm not saying at the cost of transparency, but uh I think that uh our current process lacks many opportunities to just be a little more efficient, and this seems like one like if you guys want to charge yourselves more money, that seems like that's completely on you.

And and I sort of silly that you have to ask me permission on an individual basis.

So thank you.

So we're not we're going to read that legislation next.

So um just in case you have additional questions.

Yeah.

You threw me off.

Okay.

Um any other questions?

Four now, I'm like lost here.

Um this is one oh four, right?

Yes, okay.

So here are no other questions.

Ordinance number 104-2026 passes, please um sign on on and as amended.

There's an amendment on here.

Oh okay.

So there's an amendment on here that I just noticed.

Correct?

Yes.

Oh, here.

I can't even read that.

Madam Chair, I would like to uh offer an amendment.

Do go ahead.

Uh this right here, right?

Yes.

In section three at the first paragraph, line two and a third paragraph lines two and six.

Strike 17,619,000 fifteen dollars and eighty-eight cents, and insert forty-four million three hundred and six thousand three hundred and sixty-one dollars and sixty-eight cents in all three places.

Second.

Thank you.

All in favor say aye.

Any nose?

Any discussion about it?

No.

Oh, sorry.

Is there any discussion?

No.

Okay.

Well, uh, amendment passes.

So ordinance number one oh four-2026 is approved as amended.

Please sign on.

All right.

Thank you.

Um you guys stay here.

And here we go.

Um ordinance number 98-2026 by council members Davis, Santana, and Griffin, and emergency ordinance authorizing the director of development to enter into.

Oh, hold on.

No, I'm so sorry.

This is 98.

I should have heard you and just read both of them.

So this is okay.

Scratch all that.

Scratch this is 104.

So ordinance number ordinance number 98-2026 is the one that's approved.

Please sign on.

And that's not an amendment.

And so this one.

I should have just read both of them.

Yes.

Okay.

So that's that.

Put our papers in the wrong order.

Exactly.

Emergency ordinance proven the addition of property located at 1200 West 58th Street to the Northeast Ohio Advanced Energy District, accepting and approving a petition and plan for property owner in the district proposing a special energy improvement project, declaring it necessary to conduct the special energy improvement project, providing for the assessment of the costs of such special energy improvement project, authorizing the director of development to enter an energy project cooperative agreement and a special assessment agreement to implement the project and declaring an emergency director.

Bruno, who wants to talk about this?

Good morning.

So this is the pace piece of the presentation that uh we just provided.

So same project, just the specific request to move that pace legislation, uh, the councilman's life mentioned forward.

Got it.

Thank you.

Um I should have just read both of them.

Councilman Austin was that's okay, vice chair.

Um you know, through this legislation, I actually learned of this process, which I thought was pretty cool, you know, for efficiency of energy.

I'm curious to know, director.

I mean, the city of Cleveland, I mean, are there a lot of developers that do this?

Um to the chair, yeah.

This is um, you know, it's increasingly um difficult to um to put a capital stack together and get these projects through, and pace has proven to be a very, very useful tool.

Um, and another thing that I read is that um, you know, like the mortgage lenders, right?

Um, they have to approve this process.

Um, and let's just say this is not gonna happen.

It goes into like foreclosure or an I don't know, maybe you don't make a payment.

The this energy takes precedence over the mortgage, right?

How does that work?

Do you get that?

Um that question, Mike.

Uh yes to the chair.

So since this is on your real property tax mills, uh, this would be any sort of uh mortgage or lien would be subordinate to this being from the property tax mills.

So this would like always be the primary uh recipient in the event of a foreclosure or something like that.

Got it.

Okay, thank you.

So that's probably why some people push back sometimes on this energy efficiency um loan.

Okay, but and it does need approval from the mortgage lender, correct?

Okay, so they're already been approved, and this is why we're here, right?

Okay, yeah, go ahead.

Um, Madam Chairwoman, so that when the bank's underwriting these deals, let's say a project that's 50 million could get a 30 million dollar bank loan.

They might take a look at the 10 million dollar pace on the deal and reduce their debt by eight or so million to cover that risk, but overall it provides more financing to the deal than if pace was not on the in the picture at all.

So it it does help, but the bank reduces some of their debt typically to account for that risk of in a foreclosure, the pace taking priority.

Also to clarify the property taxes would have to get paid first and then the pace and then the bank debt in most of these scenarios.

So the taxpayers are protected.

Protected.

Okay, good, thank you.

And why aren't more developers doing this?

Um, I think a lot of developers, at least the ones that are aware are using utilizing it.

I think we just don't necessarily have it as a program, and so that that's something that I think our department will be doing, especially as we move forward with got it.

It's just my first you know, approval for this legislation.

So very interesting.

Found uh learned a lot from this process.

Any questions from my colleagues?

Okay, do we need to reread the amendment?

Do we need to reread the amendment?

No.

No.

Okay.

Okay, so we're good.

So ordinance number 104-2026 is approved as amended.

Please sign on.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for investing in our city.

Thank you very much.

All right, one more.

Okay, last but not least, ordinance number 1398-2025 by council members Hirston and Griffin, an emergency ordinance authorizing director of city planning to employ one or more professional consultants to enhance the existing form-based code pilot program and expand the form-based code to additional districts and geograph geographics for a period of one year with three one-year options to renew exercisable with additional legislative authority.

Good morning, chairwoman and committee.

Good morning.

My name is Callie Merzman.

emergency ordinance authorizing director of city planning to employ one or more professional consultants to enhance the existing form based code pilot program and expand the form based code to additional districts and geograph geographics for a period of one year with three one year options to renew exercisable with additional legislative authority director good morning chairwoman and committee good morning my name is Callie Merzman we are here to ask for authority to issue an RFP and enter into contract with a form based code consultant this is structured as an on-caller sort of ongoing contractual relationship with the consultant to be selected that will help us both update and refine our existing form-based code pilot with some key um lessons learned from that pilot process as well as build out additional districts so in the terminology of form based code different districts are sort of different use categories and typologies for different areas so Shannon will get into the technical details but you'll see different residence districts we don't currently have a large range of industrial districts for example so we need to build out additional form based code districts this consultant will also help us recommend and map additional form based code zoning across different parts of the city and so our goal in all of the zoning work that we're doing right now is to align our zoning code with the desired development across the city right now our zoning code um actually makes illegal many of our existing buildings and so what that means for folks who are coming to invest in the city maybe rehabbing buildings is that they have to go through quite a lot of process to get permits sometimes having to go to board of zoning appeals etc.

We want to streamline that and make that as easy as possible for them.

So we'll be coming to you a couple of times with different zoning requests but the creation of form based code and expanding and refining that citywide is one of the tools in our toolbox to align the form the the feeling of buildings the structure of buildings with our legacy city fabric to make that type of development as straightforward as possible.

So I'll hand it over to Shannon Leonard to talk about the technical details as soon as you are do you have a presentation we do have a quick presentation before you do the presentation we do have someone that's signed up for public comment that we would want to bring up for two minutes or so.

Michael Armstrong if you could come up the microphone is for the good folks in you two we can hear you but you need the microphone if we can be picked up this on how was that you were there.

Yep there I got it now we go thanks thank you for the name's uh strong I live in the Detroit Shoreway Cadell pilot area for form based code um I would just like to say that I want to share just very briefly about what we've experienced.

I just also want to recommend that uh there not be any funding for this for the expansion of the code until we take a closer look and analyze uh how it's been working out right now in our pilot neighborhoods um and I just want to say that the uh funding um I think is uh premature uh also uh I know it's asking for roughly a half a million dollars over four years um just some of what we've experienced is that the uh uh the legal requirements and intent of this code have not been uh considered as uh implemented I would also uh say that uh in the present code it says uh that the uh legal requirement uh or the legal authorization is based on section 330 uh there is and there never has been a section 330 uh um ever in in the city of cleveland so uh that's something you need to look at but um again in my uh neighborhood uh we've uh had a uh a 10 space parking lot approved by uh zoning um in the middle of a residential neighborhood and I would say that the the site had uh two uh zoning districts uh assigned to the site uh but only uh one uh zoning district was considered um just present oh that's so much better that one I needed that that helps a lot I can relax um also um there's another uh development uh that we've experienced uh in our area on 8400 Lake Avenue and I'll just share a a couple key findings um on on that one uh first off it's it's uh 72 uh units and uh that the uh um neighbors uh and others of us that live close by uh were not notified about this and uh um I can share more details about that uh afterwards uh also um the uh presentation by uh staff at the Cleveland Planning Commission meeting mentioned only uh uh four criteria for approval when in actuality there are 18 different uh things they need to look at um and I would also say that this is another site that was um had two zoning districts assigned to it but only one um one was considered and applied

Uh also um the uh presentation by uh staff at the Cleveland Planning Commission meeting mentioned only uh uh four criteria for approval when in actuality there are 18 different uh things they need to look at.

Um and I would also say that this is another site that was um had two zoning districts assigned to it, but only one was considered and applied to the approval of that.

And uh when the zoning districts were set up such that they would uh support the uh intent of the code.

And uh I what I'm trying to get at here is that this is something that needs to be followed.

We need to look at the uh administration of how this is being done.

Uh lastly, I would also mention that the uh there is a reports uh uh supposed to be released every six months.

Um I know I sent you an email.

There's there's uh there's a large criteria of what's got to be in that.

Um, there's been no response from city planning about that.

They need to evaluate what they're doing now.

And I think to do the right thing before we expand the citywide, we need to uh look at analyze how what's working now and what isn't revise that, iterate, test it out, come back.

Then then we can look at expanding this and uh use your use your consultant for that.

Don't give them any money for expansion until we um uh know what how this is working for the current residents of the city.

Thank you, Mr.

Alstra.

Okay.

Public comments closed for now.

We don't have anyone else.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um Commissioner Chief.

Commissioner.

Are you Shannon?

Are you commissioner?

No, I'm just Chief Zoning Administrator.

Administrator and manager.

Okay.

Through the chair.

Before we hand it over to Shannon, I'll just clarify that we are asking for authority for a consultant to assist with revision to the existing form-based code, the way that it's structured as an ongoing relationship is that that can the same consultant that this authorizes us to partner with on revising and updating the pilot would then work with us to move forward.

So many of the comments that Mr.

Armstrong brought up are incorporated into this.

I also want to clarify that the dollar investment is 124,000 that has already been budgeted and allocated to city planning.

So beyond that, Shannon will get into the details of form-based code so far.

I also want to remind folks in terms of process that any zoning change, map change comes back through council on an individual basis to be discussed.

So there's no citywide expansion that happens as a result of this contract.

Every zoning map change has to be legislated through council.

This just sets the stage for us to understand what is working in the existing pilot areas, update as needed based on lessons learned, and then prepare to come back to council for expansion conversations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Madam Chair Shannon Leonard, Chief Zoning Administrator.

Um, so this is a dashboard um screenshot here.

Um one of our uh staff members, our GIS technician is working on creating a dashboard that'll be open to the public.

Um this is from the most recent report, which was uh taken from uh from back in November, December part of that six-month report um that Mr.

Armstrong had alluded to.

Um just kind of giving you a snapshot of what has happened uh from July of last year through, or really since the form based code was passed up until December of last year in terms of job values uh and permitting days and things like that.

The majority of these projects uh that were here, not the big multifamily projects.

A lot of what you were seeing in these permits was really your um you know, simple rehabs to homes, garages, porches, things of that nature, and maybe just like some commercial business change of uses.

Um the purpose of this request is really to answer what Mr.

Armstrong was talking about, as you know our current Euclidean code has been around almost for a hundred years and uh 2029 it'll be a hundred years.

And we have been tweaking it, refining it, changing it through the years.

It's a living document.

Even when we passed the form-based code, we stated you know that this is a pilot.

This is you know, we're this is a new tool, a new way to do zoning, a different way to do zoning that aligns more with the development and investment and trying to make sure that when those investments do come along that they can get through the permitting process, as well as having an engagement process in which residents know what is coming in their neighborhood.

And so, even with that being said, we knew that refinements would come down the road, and that's really the purpose of this request is to engage a consultant with the money that's been already budgeted on many occasions.

One on terms of administration and clarifying that, as well as introducing a variety of district types that are not currently included.

Currently, the form-based code only goes to seven stories.

There's been interest for downtown and waterfront, but we know that downtown buildings clearly go well above seven stories, and so they would be automatically non-conforming without expanding those districts.

We really want to build on the lessons from the pilot districts, even the ones that have not been great outcomes, including the parking lot situation that Mr.

Armstrong was discussing.

And we want to refine provisions around the administration, the streetscape easements, accessory drilling units, and the first four residential restrictions that were put in place and kind of developed in a pre-COVID world where we know that nowadays that is not a great restriction.

We want to be able to have residential, you know, wherever we can with our affordability issues.

We want to address the conflicts with the fire code that have posed barriers to infill and adaptive reuse and build-out context.

And we want to create a framework for the predictable user-friendly standards that support housing variety, flexibility of emerging uses, like data centers, things of that nature, and a high quality public realm.

When we talk about administrative and usability, as Mr.

Armstrong alluded to, we want to clarify the permitting pathways, variant standards, and the cumulative versus non-cumulative use table.

So for instance, currently across the city, we have a cumulative zoning code.

So what's allowed in single family is generally allowed in local retail.

However, what's allowed in local retail is generally not allowed in single family, and it goes up through this chart in a simplistic way.

And so we want to clarify in the form-based code.

Do we want to continue the cumulative uses, or do we want what we essentially say this is permitted, not permitted, conditional?

Accessory drilling units and additional structures.

This is something that's not currently addressed in either the Euclidean or the form-based code.

But we want to clarify how those accessory drilling units, additions, garages, and multiple structures on a lot are treated under the form-based code.

And we also want to be able to expand the flexibility support multi-generational housing and smaller infill typologies as we have smaller lots in the city.

The other item is ground floor height and residential restrictions.

We want to reassess the required ground floor clear heights and the active use thresholds.

We want to evaluate whether the prohibitions on residential at the first floor in our urban node districts and the outright ban on residential and urban innovation campus, which is like your meds and eds and high-tech centers are aligned with the market demand and housing goals in a post-COVID world.

The ground story height is important as that has come up as some the projects that have been multifamily housing, specifically OFA around low-income housing, the ground story heights in some districts exceeds what they are allowed to, what they are able to accommodate in terms of financing and things of that nature.

So, you know, a mentor once told me that a great zoning code and a development code has a has the space for everything, uh, whether that is you know low barrier entry jobs or whether that's high-tech jobs, whether that's grocery stores, access to recreation, doctors, things of that nature.

And so we want to introduce a revised districts to capture uses not yet well addressed.

So for instance, across the form-based code as it's currently written, there's no automotive-oriented uses.

But we do know that our community doesn't want to totally push out all automotive-oriented.

We still need to get gas, things of that nature.

I know that's not everybody's favorite thing, uh, but they do exist and they are people's livelihoods in some places.

Uh but we want to make sure that they fit within.

And so this picture is a great example of under a form-based code elsewhere, is that this is an automotive use.

This is a this is a uh a mechanic shop, but you really can't even tell that it's a mechanic shop from the form and the zoning regulations that are around it.

Uh, and then the true industrial uses, so we do have industrial flex type districts, but those really are more for adaptive type reuses.

So when we're talking about true industrial uses, manufacturing warehouse and distribution, those districts are not addressed in the code.

Uh also transit-oriented development districts, so waterfront and riverfront districts aligned with the vision for the valley and lakefront planning, emerging uses such as maker spaces, artists and production, and hybrid work live options.

And again, this is important because as I stated for the central business district, the highest we can go right now is seven stories.

But if we want to, you know, really regulate for those more pedestrian friendly, the urban form overlay that we have in some areas and have it really seen out in the code and expand the code, those districts would need to be addressed.

And then the other thing that has come up that is a real conflict in this code and the form-based code is how the streetscape easement requirement functions on the built corridors.

So you propose we're uh proposed differentiated standards by corridor type.

So for instance, when you're along Detroit in West 25th, that's a lot different than say Broadway.

Um, you know, so where are these infill spaces sit in and how that streetscape plays out and ensuring visibility on the constrained sites?

And then the conflicts with the fire code and infill development in practice, um, a stringent fire code application has created some barriers to infill and adaptive reuse uh project.

So our goal is to work with the consultants to recommend on creative code acceptable strategies that balance life safety with the urban form goals, including the alternative compliance path and design mitigation appropriate for Cleveland's built-out context.

So some of the fire code and the form-based code, the way that it is written is really more for open spaces and um and it's a lot harder with the infill context that the city currently has with kind of the missing teeth of every other scattered vacant parcels.

Uh the other issue is uh addressing some of the design and technical standards uh that Mr.

Armstrong was alluding to.

So door spacing, transparency, amenity space, specifically parking location and screening and how that works, um, say on corner lots, uh, and then garage placement, and then recommending adjustments to balance the functionality with design quality.

And so essentially that's essentially what we're asking for is to use the money that's already been uh budgeted for us to seek out an RFP to engage a consultant to make revisions to the code where we've seen these issues as well as issues that were never addressed originally in the original form-based code pilot project.

Got it.

Thank you, Chief.

And thank you, Director, for meeting with me and helping me understand a little bit more about this form-based code.

Um, I do want to reiterate that this is to hire professional consultant.

I just got a text message thinking that this is going to change the zoning right now.

This is to hire.

But there is a pilot program that was paid for, right?

And so we have we must have some data.

Do we know what has been working, what has not been working so far?

To the chair, yes, ma'am.

So that's kind of what I just kind of went through with the project is that these areas are the ones that need refinement and need uh working on.

What is working is that the process of projects coming through, and in fact, um, one of the key things that came out of the form-based code process is that it took those design review districts across the city and the guidelines that were adopted by city planning commission and really made them regulations because guidelines are guidelines and then there's regulations, and so for the design of buildings and the form and how those buildings are constructed, those things were implemented into the code itself.

And so the process for projects that are five or less units that you know are residential or commercial in nature, they go as long as they meet the zoning code, they move through the process.

If they need a variance, they would still go to the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Anything over six units is going to go to PETBot, also known as the technical review committee in the form-based code, and PETBot was really uh implemented after we started this process with the form-based code in terms of where you bring everybody to the table.

And in fact, that process has now been implemented into the overall overhaul of the permitting process, so that when somebody submits an application to the city through building and housing, it then gets sent to everybody that's in that PEP committee for various projects as well as planning and zoning.

Uh, and then for anything above the 20 units or square footage, it would go to planning commission as well for that final approval.

And so the process of your everyday permits is moving faster.

Um, so that that it was one of the outcomes that is is a benefit, um, especially as it relates to housing and housing production.

Um, but there is some misalignment in terms of you know the administration uh of the the form-based code itself, but also some of these items that I talked about here that we've noticed are uh either very uh administrative relief that is sought or um you know the very it's just not playing out in terms of how we expected it to play out, similar to our current code.

Director, do you want to yes?

Just to add an additional point on the administration and sort of community-facing information shared, you know, Shannon's slides go into more detail about the physical elements of the code and how those translate into the built environment.

We've had a couple of large projects in the form-based code pilot areas come through planning commission, and some of the feedback we've received for 8400 lake as well that um Mr.

Armstrong and some of his neighbors came to planning commission, is that in that process of review, planning commission members as well as the neighbors need a little bit more advanced notice and eyes on the project.

So that will also be reflected in this type of update where we take a closer look at how information about projects that are now able to move through the process more smoothly, which is something that we want, but we also want folks to be informed and aware of what's happening.

So those are some of the administration pieces that um Shannon had mentioned on the first slide.

Got it.

And I was going to talk to you about the like those letters that go out to residents.

I mean, a week to I mean the two weeks, that's not enough time, you know, for people to take off of work and so forth.

So I I do get a lot of complaints about, you know, um, sure, so that's to clarify the mailed notices around zoning changes, um, are very specific to zoning changes, whether it's a legislative map change that's coming through city council and city planning or a hearing in front of the Board of Zoning Appeals.

After the zoning change is made and the form-based code is mapped onto these parcels, these projects are development projects that are going through the typical entitlement process.

So you'll just see those on planning commission agendas or things like that.

But because they're not no longer going through the design review advisory committees, which is what our communities are used to, they're only seeing them on the planning commission agendas.

And so I think there's an opportunity to uh work with council members, block clubs, CDCs, um, maybe signage physical signage in locations to just give folks that um opportunity to know what is happening separate from a design review advisory committee agenda.

Got it.

Thank you.

And going back, I know that councilwoman Hudson is here, and she was just sharing some of the challenges she had in the um in her neighborhood.

I'm curious to know when this form base was being implemented.

How I mean, what is the role of council members?

What is the role of residents?

I mean, was there input taken?

Um what happens if a council member doesn't agree and and approve, or do they even have to approve this form-based code once this is passed and regulated.

Uh Madam Chair, so the project, the form the original form-based code pilot started uh initially in 2014, and it went through a series of processes.

We engaged the consultants starting in 2019, COVID happened, uh and then we went back.

So after COVID, there was a new administration.

You also had new council people in each of the wards, and then we engage in a series of several public engagement going back out into the community specifically, uh, councilman Spencer's ward on at least three different occasions.

We also engaged the Huff neighborhood as well on multiple occasions, and then we went through this process of going through planning commission and then a council, the typical way that you would have passed legislation.

Uh, and so there was quite a bit of communication on the front end as well as on the back end of COVID with the project itself.

Um, I think what's important also to note is that development in the city of Cleveland, if you want to know the health of your zoning code or your development code, you look to how many variances are needed through the Board of Zoning Appeals.

So to give you an example, Columbus holds Board of Zoning Appeals meetings once a month generally.

Um, and so the city of Cleveland holds it every single week.

And that shows you that there's a real misalignment in terms of what our regulations are and what people are developing or using their buildings for in the city.

And I think that's really important here because, in a lot of ways, that is that is a public hearing meeting, but that public hearing meeting is important in terms of when there's really somebody seeking a variance where they really have a true hardship versus it being used weekly.

And so in terms of development and permits that come through, there's not a public process generally unless somebody needs an exception to the rule outside of development projects that are going to be you know larger than the 20,000 square feet or 20 units, they will still go to planning commission.

Um, but before that, if it's you know the projects, we do not currently under Euclidean code or the form-based code have a requirement to notify the public unless it's for something specific, like a special use permit, like conditional use, and that's only for certain things like wireless towers that may fall down.

To add to that and sort of getting at the heart of your question, um as we think about updating the zoning code, there's there's the planning work on the front end, which is what we did with the community meetings and the creation of the pilot areas that Shannon just mentioned, and what sort of phase two is with this consultant that we are proposing to move forward with.

Um that sort of drafts the zoning regulations, the zoning code refines the proposal of that zoning code.

Um it becomes effective when it is passed into law by council, and that has two main components.

There's the actual text in the zoning code that becomes incorporated into codified ordinances, and then there's a corresponding map that aligns different parts of that text to specific parcels.

So I know everyone's familiar with like single family, you know, you have parcels in your ward that are single family housing, semi-industry, that sort of pyramid, the uses on that pyramid that Shannon shared with us.

Um changes to mapped zoning regulations onto parcels, those that's a legislative action.

So that's a map change that comes through this committee as a public hearing, and it also comes through a planning commission as a public hearing before action by council.

And so what we're here talking about today is the planning work on the front end of that to have something to bring to you to ask you to legislate.

So to your question about can anything happen if the council member is not supportive.

Can we move forward with rezoning as a result of this work without council alongside us?

The answer to those things is no, because can legis this is legislation, zoning changes happen through legislation, and that moves through this committee and through the council body.

Got it.

Thank you.

And then my last question before I open it up is about developers.

Um I'm just curious to know you know, are there limited numbers of developers that are familiar with the form-based code?

And could this discourage other developers from investing in Cleveland?

I know you said that this is to make it easier for developers, but you know, when I look at what this regulates, it I mean, it does stand um, it could be where only certain developers, you know, could abide by those regulations.

I'm curious to know if this um this disadvantage for smaller developers.

No, this shouldn't disadvantage small developers at all.

In fact, the um the simplification of the process that we're aiming for here and the hopefully shorter turnaround time from having a project idea to being able to get your shovels in the ground, should actually open the door to additional developers.

We hear a lot that time is money in our current process requiring folks to go to BZA, et cetera, really costs developers money that they wouldn't have to otherwise spend and can be a discouraging factor.

So the hope is that this opens the door to additional development, additional developers, smaller minority developers as well.

Um Shannon can speak to to what happened in the pilot areas, but I think just sharing information and training folks on what the updated zoning code is is really important to help everyone come along.

Got it.

Thank you.

Councilman Um Harsh.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um if we could camp out on page one through the chairs.

So is this as much is this the most data we're getting based on the work that's been done so far, or is there more data that you can provide for us?

Yeah, okay.

That one.

Yeah.

There's more data there.

This was or through the chair, sorry, to the councilman.

There's more data than this.

This was a screenshot that was taken out of a presentation.

Um, and there was more.

This is actually the uh abbreviated version of the presentation given to planning commission back in uh December.

Okay.

So I'll probably uh ask for some specifics here.

Um but I I've it's curious that you skewed the bar graph the way you did.

It's actually a two to three ratio.

There's it's 45 to 69, it's two commercial for every three residential.

It's an interesting choice though.

Make it look like residential is just far outpacing commercial.

Um but choices.

Um the new permit format on the bottom left, you've got the purple for the new format and the green for the old for uh permitting format, but it looks in the map like there's only one new permit format uh dot on the map.

Could you provide us through the chair the actual data on permits, both residential and commercial in each of the four uh test zones?

Through the chair to the councilman.

Are you asking all the permits that any yes, we can provide that information for you and whether they're under new or old?

Yes, whether they're under new, the new per permit format or under the old permit format, that is including the um the permitting overhaul system.

So I I apologize for the confusion here.

But it is it is important that the majority of the permits that have come in are in our residential districts as well as residential neighborhoods.

Yeah, and through the chair, um, one of the reasons that we settled on these four zones was that the Detroit Shoreway was a hot development district.

The area on the east side around Little Italy, that's Cleveland Clinic, Fairfax, that's also a growing development district.

Um the area on the North Side Huff is uh very disinvested area that we were looking at for uh reinvestment because it's uh it is an area that needs a lot of attraction of investment.

And then the area on the south is sort of the opportunity corridor, very commercial.

Um we're looking to see how this works with bringing in new businesses that set up you know job centers and stuff like that.

So these these four areas were picked for pilot areas, I think for very distinct reasons, um, good reasons, but I would like to see where the residential and commercial permit data uh where those applications are being pulled per area.

Like is the Detroit Shoreway one entirely residential and all those commercials are going down to Opportunity Corridor, or are there commercial permits being pulled in the Detroit Shoreway because form-based code makes it easier for them to snag those up as well.

I'd be curious to see that broken down.

Um jump in with everyone.

Uh and then the next one is I have a little bit of a hard time reading it.

It's a very small print.

It looks like 115 submitted form-based code permits, new construction alterations is the 115 number.

And then to the left, it says 35.6 is the permit turnaround time.

So there were 115 through the chair permits submitted in the form-based code region in aggregate, all four combined.

That's through the chair to the councilman, that's correct.

That's the 69 and 45.

Okay.

And then how many of those are completed with permitting through the chair?

When you said when you mean comp to the submitted, but how many of the 115 have been approved and are done with the permitting process?

Are some still in the pipeline?

They could be.

And through the chair to the councilman.

The one of the most difficult things prior to the overhaul of the permitting system and Exella was how records were being kept.

And so pooling that information in terms of um the new construction and addition.

Is this 115 most likely doesn't represent new construction in the terms of like new builds all the way?

The bulk of them are most likely like additions, and it could be picking up decks, porches, fences, all of those things with the new permitting system, and I don't mean to keep going back there, but it is really important because the data that we're collecting there is a lot easier for us to dissect and put into something to give you better data as it relates to how these various programs and regulations are working out.

Okay.

Um the reason I'm I'm getting into this is because that 35.6 days on a permit turnaround time is still above the city's goal of 30 days, but closer to it than a lot of people have had experiences with in the past.

Some permitting has taken five, six months in the past.

And is this 35.6 the average permitting time?

Is it the median?

What what is it in 35.6?

What is that number?

So the 35.6 is an average of the days that it is um on the turnaround time of those permits that you see listed here.

Based on that 115 through the chair.

That's correct.

Through the chair.

And then through the chair, could you let us know what uh the permitting turnaround time is for projects outside of this, what the general rest of the city averages right now, so we can compare that to the FBC?

Yes.

In the same time period?

Through the chair to the councilman, yes, I believe we can do that.

Okay.

We know what we're asking for.

Um then uh the total fees collected by the form-based code, 138,000.

Uh through the chair, why is that a significant number worth putting in the data?

Um, does that strike you as a high number?

Uh why why is that number being brought to us?

Through the chair to the councilman.

It was I believe it was one of the requirements requested of us in the in the legislation for every six months.

Okay.

Through the chair, does that represent anything if if form-based code had not been in place and the same number of permits went through, that's just how much we we'd collect in permitting fees, regardless of whether or not the form-based code was in place?

Through the chair to the councilman, yeah.

The fees aren't going to change regardless of what the zoning legislation is.

Okay.

Um and then the next one is is is is uh is the 92 alteration permits and 23 new construction.

Um so I'd be really curious to find out with that uh permitting data, what the new construction is, if it if it's except uh ADUs, if it's the commercial stuff, um that new construction is comprising is is what type of new construction.

I'd like to see that, but we'll grab that with the rest of the data.

Um, and then the total job value.

Uh okay, just a few other things then.

Uh I've I've been saying this, I think, for a while.

Um I think form-based code offers some really great opportunities and it's got some really, really uh barbed uh hooks in it too that can be really, really problematic.

I'm not a big fan of allowing ADUs and additional units in single family zones.

I think that a lot of the character of neighborhoods, particularly the Lee Harvard area, uh Old Brooklyn, some West Park, Collinwood, uh, those neighborhoods are very single family oriented.

Uh part of the stability of those regions has been the fact that they're highly owner-occupied and residentials drive down owner occupants.

I mean, sorry, rentals drive down owner occupants, they kind of exist in competition with each other.

Um so every time a owner-occupied goes rental, um, I think it uh it prevents it presents a potential threat to single family zones.

Of course, Detroit Shoreway is not a single family zone, and this wasn't an area where we have density of single family housing.

So that was another reason why we uh all agreed to use these areas because this isn't that area, but I do put that out there as a word of caution uh as we talk about expanding form-based code.

Um through the chair to either of you who wants to tackle this.

Um I've found that zoning in Cleveland is very uh uh very happenstance, very willy-nilly, and it very much just depends on the mood of the board that day.

Um we have days when the zoning board will enforce zoning to the T, the letter of the law, and we have days where they grant variances without any proof of hardship whatsoever.

Um, violating zoning, allowing six units in a two-family district.

Um, it has no rhyme nor reason.

Um we pass out variances whenever we feel like it.

So, through the chair, why is this better than just giving people variances whenever we want to give them variances?

Please.

We're at the top of the phone.

So I won't comment specifically to the councilman through the chair on um individual decisions of the Board of Zoning Appeals, um, as we know they do have legislative standards that they evaluate based on the specifics of the individual cases in front of them.

The real benefit of aligning our zoning code with what we want in neighborhoods is that then that can drive what development happens in the neighborhoods.

And so it is less about specific cases being pled to board members who may see situations one way and more about being specific in the existing zoning code that is um mapped onto neighborhoods about what we want and what can be built there.

And so that's the real value of this is aligning our desires and vision for the neighborhoods with the code that is on the books governing development on those parcels, rather than having code on the books that we all sort of agree doesn't match what we want there, it doesn't match what's there now.

And so we end up having to go to Board of Zoning Appeals all the time to to build um what matches with the existing neighborhood fabric.

This is about bringing that code into alignment with development.

And I'll just add one thing.

Uh Shannon's staff do zoning verification letters often.

So folks will come to our department, ask for these letters to provide to their insurance companies or lenders saying that they could rebuild their property if it were to be destroyed by an active God under our zoning code.

And sometimes there's a real challenge because our existing zoning code doesn't allow them to rebuild what's there.

This is about reconciling that and removing the these procedural hurdles for our property.

And so through the chair, this is getting to Ms.

Leonard's point about only having zoning once a month instead of weekly.

Uh if more uses and uh activity were permitted from the get-go, there would be less need for zoning board to meet weekly because uses would just be permitted by right.

More uses would be permitted by right.

I think it's less about more uses necessarily and more about zoning code that matches the development that we want in specific parts of the cities.

Which I've got to do.

So it's specific use to specific place.

Which I've had in aligning those.

We're talking about residents, or are we talking about the administration?

Because we've I've I've brought residents in who very clearly said what they want, and the administration said no, we're gonna do what we want to do, not what the neighborhood wants to do.

So the question about who is the we that we're talking about is really really relevant.

I mean, I represent people who don't want six units on their two-family street.

I represent a neighbor that doesn't want, you know, uh uh uh a house built on a triangle lot, and they just lose.

They come in, they they do their their civic duty, and they just lose, and there's no hardship provided.

There's none, there's that that standard of legislative standard is quite frankly humorous.

I think we all know that.

I think we all chuckle about it.

Um, but it it it begs the question of who's the we when we say what we want to see in the city.

And and I think that's a problem for a large part of the city.

I think that's a problem that a lot of the people in the city are gonna have with this.

And I don't want to dwell on it because I want to let other people uh talk, but I do want to ask one other thing about the legislation.

I don't want to I don't want to shut you off though, if you want to uh I do want to get into the guts of the Trevor Burrus, no, I so the the form-based code is the way that you can think about it really is a 21st century way of doing zoning.

It's not to say that you can't still have single family uses in the current pilot.

There is not a single family district.

But it's not to say that like if this were to expand citywide at some point in the future, it would be relevant to have all districts available, right?

So I think that's really something important to remember.

This is just the difference between the Euclidean code and the form-based code is really in the way that it looks.

It's much more pictorial, it's a lot easily more digestible, it's written in 2024.

It language, vernacular, vocabulary, things of that nature.

Um really the point when we did it was we there was significant public engagement on the front end to go out and ask not the administration, but the neighbors, the residents, the communities, the businesses, what they wanted in their city and what they wanted in their neighborhoods, and then looked at the form.

And when I mean form, I mean like the scale and massing of buildings and how they look, two stories versus three stories, 50% of the lot, 25% of the lot, and then made regulations around that.

And so I but I do agree that when you talk about the Board of Zoning Appeals currently as it currently exists, Columbus is three times the size of Cleveland in a lot of respects, whether that's people or place, geography, right?

And so the current code in terms of uses, uh, the Euclidean code itself in terms of uses is that cumulative nature that I talked about, what you could do in one district versus another district, unless it's a specific district that tells you exactly what can and cannot happen without a variance.

And those use standards are use standards, there's a those types of things require use variants.

So for instance, the units that you were talking about require a use variance.

That standard is generally a lot higher, and it's up to the board to you know enforce those standards for better or for worse.

And we know that those things can or cannot, depending on the argument.

And sometimes a lot of times the zoning code itself is used as a hardship.

Um whether that's the correct standard or not is you know, we could have a conversation about that offline.

Um but the other thing that you do see all the time is those area variances, and that's where the real misalignment and the real issue becomes when banks need they want to finance and you have these bare area variances, the lot is too small, the house is too big, kind of things, and those are those weekly variances that are being requested.

And and and through the chair, I'm completely sympathetic to a lot of these issues because I've sat in enough BZAs to watch routine things come through that it you that should just be permitted by right.

And I understand where we're trying to go with a lot of this.

I think some of the fire code is just arcane, not because of we don't want people to be safe, but like there's fire code that prevents you from building a building next to a building.

But what is a city if not buildings next to buildings, right?

Like there are there are old parts of this code that like prevent us from doing things, and and I understand our our effort to address that.

We're just this is a huge massive effort, and there are going to be a lot of pieces that we're gonna have to look at.

Very specifically, though, I want to look at section one uh line five, because I think this is the one that's probably gonna be a little bit concerning to me right now.

I'm just gonna read all of section one uh out loud.

It says uh this is the beard ordained part of our of our ordinance that the director of city planning is authorized to employ by contract or contracts one or more consultants or one or more firms of consultants for the purpose of supplementing the regularly employed staff of the several departments of the city of Cleveland in order to provide professional services necessary to enhance the existing form-based code pilot program and expand the form-based code to additional districts and geographies for the Department of City Planning for a period of one year with a with three one-year options to renew exercisable with oversight.

Um so I think this is the uh where I just had everyone's line uh additional districts geography uh to expand the form-based code to additional districts and geography.

I don't think anybody at this table right now, at least I don't speak for I don't know that this body right now has the appetite to expand form-based code to any new districts.

I think that if we're just continuing the study of the current districts, I think it's a lot easier, but it does say to expand to new geographies.

And I like to ask the director uh if you could clarify that, and maybe we just make an amendment to just strike the expansion.

So to the councilman through the chair, thank you for raising that question.

Uh I I want to touch on two pieces.

One, what you brought up earlier about who is we and how do we decide.

Um I think, and obviously from a planning perspective, I believe a lot in the power of a planning process and the community engagement that goes into planning and making recommendations.

The work that is proposed in front of you in the ordinance today is the planning process to make recommendations to come back to council.

And so when we talk about what we want and who defines we and how do we define what that is in terms of the shape of the neighborhoods, what is before you are resources to go into the process to help talk with residents, update the code, bring that back to you as a draft for your action.

There, as I said before, zoning code is legislated, nothing is going to change without us coming back to this table to talk about it.

But our ability to use resources to have that planning process to have those conversations in neighborhoods is really key to making the changes and getting the alignment that I think we're all on the same page in terms of wanting here today.

Going to the specific language that you used or that is in the ordinance.

Um when we talk about expanding districts, districts are those types of um the different forms that are in the code.

So you mentioned single family housing.

Shannon just said there isn't a district in our current form-based code pilot that directly addresses single family housing.

But we know for certain neighborhoods like the ones you listed off, having a single family zoning district is really, really important to be able to modernize the zoning code in that area.

So this work with this consultant would sort of shape up the district, the policy language around what a single family district would look like, so that we can bring that back to the table, discuss with you, informed by community conversations that have happened before to talk about where we need to update that and how to implement it across the city.

So just like this is about a planning process, not about changing, this does not change the zoning code.

Any changes come back to council.

This just gives us something to talk about with you to continue to solve these problems that we're addressing, which is the development process takes too long for people to get the permits they want.

The current zoning code doesn't align with what people want to build or what residents, etc.

council members want to see in their neighborhoods, which force forces them to go to board of zoning appeals.

Okay.

Um I I think I understand what the intent is, but I have to confess I've been a boiled frog at this table before.

Uh I've I've been slow walked into changes that I didn't think we were being slow walked into.

And I don't want that to happen anymore.

So I'm wondering if this is the legislation that comes back in a couple months and say, well, we already agreed that we were going to expand the form-based code district, you already passed that legislation back in what is it, March.

Um because of that language in here about expanding the district.

I through the chair, what would prevent a consultant from looking at other districts as part of the work that they're employed to do in this experiment of zone-based code if we don't have the specific word expand the form-based code in this piece of legislation.

I mean, they could they're working at their computer.

What prevents them from looking around?

Um I mean, anyone at their computer can look at whatever.

Correct.

That's exactly what we're doing.

But to the councilman through the chair, when we go into contract, we have a very specific scope of work that we use.

We want to be transparent about what that scope of work includes.

And this is the intent of this work.

There, you can think of it in phases if you'd like.

We have the pilots in place.

We know from our experience in the pilot that there are revisions, updates, improvements that we need to make based on our lived experience in this updated pilot code.

So that's one section of it.

We know that there are uses, forms across the city that are not included in our current set of districts that have already been drafted that need to be built out.

That's another part of it.

And then once we have those districts, think about it as a menu, then we can go into some mapping conversations about what districts best match and align with form and use that we want across the city.

So through the chair, let me ask very specifically.

What changes if we strike, quote, and expand the form-based code to additional districts and geographies, end quote, from this piece of legislation.

To the councilman through the chair.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're comfortable with the work happening but don't want council to be on record as approving approving expansion, is that correct?

Through through the chair, that's exactly where I'm going.

So they would be able to continue working on this.

They'd be able to continue looking at the enhancing the existing form-based code pilot program for the department of city planning.

I mean, I see I through the chair to the councilman, I understand what you're what you're stating, but I just want to let you know that because the original form-based code legislation was adopted the text and the maps to come back before we would have to come back before you for any future text changes.

I understand what you're what you're stating, but I just want to let you know that because the original form-based code legislation was adopted, the text and the maps, to come back before we would have to come back before you for any future text changes or map changes as it pertains to writing legal descriptions and all of those things, just as we do in the under the Euclidean code.

And so that this isn't to necessarily.

I mean, it is.

I mean, what we're asking to do is refine the code.

So maybe you can change the code, the legislation, we'd have to work with the attorneys for to refine it.

Um but I if it if the issue is you don't want to say that you it's expanding the form-based code.

I mean, it is expanding the text.

Um, it's not just revising what we have.

We want to expand it.

We want to add more use districts, if you will, form-based districts, use districts that allow for more uses throughout the city as the city moves forward to modernizing the zoning and development code.

Madam Chair, I think that also falls under enhance the existing form-based code.

I think that all I think your your consultants would do the same thing you want them to do if we were to take out that language, I think it would be a little bit of peace of mind.

Um and through the chair, correct.

Yes, I agree, Miss Leonard.

We did actually have a separate piece of legislation that talked about the actual geographical boundaries of where form-based code would be permitted.

And I understand it's a separate piece of legislation.

I'm just saying for peace of mind, so that we're all on the same page.

We could remove vague, misleading language that you know, and just sort of like to the councilman through the chair.

As I understand your proposal, I don't have any concerns with the updated language, understanding that it doesn't impact the scope of the planning work, it just better represents councils understanding that zoning change and expansion does come back to council and is approved through additional legislation.

Okay, go for it.

Thank you.

I'll I mean that by one more role.

Got it.

It's just a strike.

Okay.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Next, next up, I have uh councilwoman Hudson and then Councilman Slide.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, through the chair to the planning director, thank you for for joining us here today.

Um, as my colleagues mentioned, um, my neighborhood is one of the pilot areas for the form based code.

And I I understand and appreciate the need to um you know streamline the development process, particularly for uh single family homes where homes like mine wouldn't um fit into the uh current zoning without a variance.

Um but I'm I'm curious um, you know, as part of the uh form-based code pilot area, was one of the requirements that you present to council um a report um based on the the like the the data and the results from these pilot areas yeah so the recording requirement um that was amended and added to the form-based code when it was passed in 2024 was to uh give you all a report every six months.

The first six months we really didn't have a lot of data to to provide, and we provided that to uh the the council uh folks that were in uh your shoes previously, councilwoman Spencer as well as councilwoman House Jones for each ward that it was affected as it relates, and we also would send out emails every time that we approved a permit.

At some point we did get an email that stated you know that the we didn't need every single permit for every single item.

Um but we do have that report, and the there was a report generated back in December, uh, which is what that screenshot was taken from.

And so uh we will continue to do that.

The next one will come out in June or July.

Okay, um, thank you.

Could you I think I I missed that it wasn't part of council member Spencer's transition memo, which was very comprehensive, but I don't remember seeing that.

Um if you could if you wouldn't mind providing me with that.

And um, you know, if you if you wouldn't mind, um, could you explain the um opportunities for public input for various developments that happen um you know under the the new form-based code in in neighborhoods like mine?

Through the chair to the councilman, so I'll talk about it under the same as it is for the Euclidean under our current zoning code, and nothing has changed in terms of the public engagement in terms of development projects.

The only thing that's changed is that various properties throughout the city under the Euclidean or cumulative code, the code that we historically had across the city is the design review and the design review districts and the process by which any of the public engages in that review.

Um, in terms of the both the form-based code and that uh in the in the Euclidean or cumulative code, there is not the design review districts.

That's the biggest difference.

In terms of public comment, public comment happens the same way it does regardless of where you are in the city.

Public hearings that we are mandated to have, or the Board of Zoning Appeals, and then City Planning Commission and Landmarks Commissions, and then obviously also the board of building standards.

And so those are out of city planning, those are the four public hearings that we're required in the books to have, if you will.

But in terms of like community engagement and going out and then notifying the public of every meeting, we we do not do that outside of the Board of Zoning Appeals.

We do a few years ago, we implemented putting signs in the yard, you know, within two to three weeks of the hearing of where that actual development project is occurring.

Okay, with I'm sorry, go ahead, Director Morskman.

To the councilwoman through the chair.

Um as I mentioned earlier, and as I think we collectively heard at Planning Commission about the 8400 Lake Project, there is a real opportunity to improve public information available.

Um so we would look to this improvement process and some advice around best practices from this consultant to help inform that.

But I can also think of, you know, we could have a dashboard on the website that sort of shows permit activity on a map or something like that.

It feels like the real key is folks being able to know and access what's happening and less having to come to a design review advisory committee meeting to give input.

And so there's a lot of improvement there, I think that we could make and would love to work with you on that.

That'd be great.

And actually, you know, the developers through the chair at 8400 Lake have been very open to meeting with the community, and um, you know, previously met with the community with their first iteration of the of the development that um that they had to scrap because of um construction cost constraints from COVID.

Um, but really what I had in mind is um, you know, I I've spoken with my colleagues about the mid-block parking lot that we ended up with not just in my neighborhood but on my street.

And um, you know, that there was no opportunity for public um engagement around that public, I'm sorry, that parking lot and that that was in in improv that was approved through the uh form-based code process.

And um I I will say that you know, as a as uh previously as a block club leader and now as a council member, um, you know, the public has a lot to say about that mid-block parking lot.

Um, it is surrounded by homes on on either side, north and south, and across the street.

So um, and I I believe that would have gone through the BZA under the if we weren't in the form-based code pilot area.

So the public would have had an opportunity to speak to the Board of Zoning Appeals and say why they didn't want a parking lot with delivery trucks, you know, uh directly next to their home, um, which which is understandable.

It's understandable there's you know, there's one house in particular that's kind of an island surrounded by parking lots as a result of this.

And although, and this is a kind of a a warning to my colleagues, um, although the the public doesn't have the opportunity to speak to you know the the board of zoning appeals, um, they will certainly make their opinions known to their council member.

Um, so that is just something to um keep in mind.

Um it is it's you know it's one thing to to streamline the development process, but when residents don't have the opportunity to make their voices heard um in one way, they will make them heard in another.

Um so just uh to take that note.

Um I'm and just to be clear, um, I'm I'm not against form-based code.

I I see the need for it.

Um I um I I understand and appreciate the effort that you all went through to engage the community and to get our feedback on you know the things that we would like to see in our neighborhood.

Is that a process that you would be willing to do for the entire city?

It seems kind of burdensome through the chair.

To the councilwoman through the chair, thank you.

That's a very good question.

And one of the important parts about the timing of this is that it does align with the timing of our citywide comprehensive citywide plan update when we'll be doing quite a lot of community engagement and conversation about people's visions, goals, aspirations for the neighborhood.

And so the goal is that we can do this refinement, um, create new districts, start to think about where they apply, and then have that in conjunction with the community engagement around the comprehensive citywide plan so that we are talking with residents in detail about what they want to see in their neighborhood, and then we have the regulatory tools available to us to make that happen as as seamlessly as possible.

So the timing of these, and we'll be coming back to talk with you about uh a similar piece of authorization for citywide plan contractual assistance.

Um but we really see them working hand in hand so that um the engagement as part of the comprehensive citywide plan includes and reflects the form-based code and other zoning changes that um that we can take out of the community and then solidifying recommendations.

Thank you.

And through the chair, I think that you know having that engagement and making sure that residents um are able to have their voices heard on the on the front end um when these um when these decisions are being made about what neighborhoods should look like and what types of development, how high buildings should be allowed to be built, um where commercial buildings should be allowed, where they shouldn't be allowed.

Um that's a it's very important to get as much community input as possible.

Um that's all.

Thank you very much for for joining us today.

Thank you, Councilwoman Hudson for coming in today um to this committee to share your experience with this of in in real life, and I think it's interesting that there will always be a difference between the people who show up for an abstract idea like form-based code at a community meeting um months before it happens versus people that will show up because something's happening on their block.

It's a very different uh way of uh uh interacting.

Um up next was uh councilman uh councilman's life.

I got three seconds.

Thank you.

Um couple quick questions and then a thought.

Um before we get to Councilman Harsh's forthcoming amendment, I I want to be I just want to make sure I understand that if we were to amend as he suggested we may that that wouldn't preclude the analysis of something like single how form-based code would work in a single family zone like in old Brooklyn and CAMS, because I think that's worth understanding, but those aren't currently part of the pilot.

So do we need to be thoughtful on how the amendment, like where is there an academic exercise and where is there an implementation as he outlined it through the chair to the director, would you still be able to look at how form-based code would be implemented in districts that are not currently within one of the pilot geographies?

To the councilman through the chair, my understanding of councilman Harsh's uh proposed amendment and desire is not to change the substance of the work, it's just to more um generally and accurately refer to this as a planning process, not as implementing zoning changes.

Okay, I just want because well, um you're good.

I one of my thoughts was do we need to uh would it I just wanted to make sure we didn't need to wordsmith the amendment to make sure that that was clear, but if we're all on the same page, because I will say, you know, I have I have similar questions, and I think there would be concerns in my neighborhood about you know single family, and I again back to my data point earlier about uh our our population loss right now is children.

You know, I I I think that there are there's a world for having green space and uh a lot of planners that I've encountered think that every green space is an opportunity for a dwelling unit.

So I'm trying to strike that balance, and I want to make sure that that it's able to be, and it sounds like that's where we're at.

Um to the six-month reporting requirement.

Where what piece of legislation was that in?

That's not in this piece, but uh is that in sort of a companion piece.

That was an ordinance or three forty-seven twenty-four.

Okay.

I think the original adoption of the form-based.

I I will go back 387 you said 24.

I think it's 347 24 or 387 24.

It's 3874.

No, I'm sure.

Um I'll go back and look at it.

I I think it's on the last base.

It would be I under understandably those updates went to the impacted members of council.

Uh I would surmise that there's a academic interest among enough members of the body that maybe that could be sent to the entire body or to the clerk.

Um especially as we start to think about how this could roll out of the pilot areas at some point.

It it'd be a good thought exercise.

And I like to read the stuff we get sent.

I don't know if other people do.

So that I guess that'd be a request, but I don't I I don't know what the formulation of that requirement was, but if that could just be a request, it's a request and that's the same thing.

I think it's the requirement was for council, and I believe the original first six months we sent it out for the whole council, and then it was just the two main council folks that it affected.

Okay.

But we can send that to you.

Two throwaway comments that I've said to you all, but I will say to my colleagues.

Uh one, I I do think there's a value in having some sort of industrial development guidelines.

I think that I've found that what we would want to see as far as like the number of windows and things like that doesn't always correspond to the needs of an industrial user.

And I know one of my first big projects I cut my teeth on at the city of Cleveland was up on the far northeast side on St.

Clair, an industrial facility and trying to figure out how to build an industrial facility in a design review district.

So I think that that's worth studying.

And then again, and I'm sort of repeating talking points.

I'm very vehemently in favor of ground floor residential.

I I think that we have leaned too heavy into requiring ground floor active uses.

And again, using my neighborhood as an example, I don't think I need more retail space.

I need more people to go to the existing retail spaces.

And I don't want to, I don't want to cut off our nose to spite our face by thinking that the world will go back to 1951 when everyone's taking the streetcar.

And I think that there's a opportunity on the ground floor to make some of our main corridors maybe look a little bit like uh a mix of what it is with a little bit of, let's say like Lake Avenue peppered in, where there are nice apartment buildings that have ground floor apartments, and it works.

Um the other one that I would put onto that, I need to flip back to my other stuff.

No, that was both of them, industrial and the ground floor retail.

My my and this sort of gets to, I think, sort of the growing pains in my opinion, and I say this as a six-year member of the city planning commission, but I also worked for the city before, as you all know, uh there is our process has become so convoluted, and nearly every project has required some degree of variance that there's sort of been this baked-in public engagement because of the variance process.

And and when that happens, and I'm not gonna name specific examples, but I could I could name specific examples in my neighborhood.

There are some people who have sort of weaponized the BZA process, and when the question at before BZA is a very narrow question, there are people who have realized this is an opportunity to kill a larger project.

So like I can think of one where people just didn't like the developer.

They just didn't like the developer.

They thought the developer was a bad guy.

And they said, well, like we can stop this guy, and it's like, well, that's that's that's a great way for us to lose a lawsuit.

So I don't I want to move away from a system where BZA is able to kind of be used for uh whether it's weaponized or for little pee political reasons.

And and unfortunately that's been the case.

But then the flip side of that coin is uh, and I'll admit this one fall on my sword.

We did not have a community meeting in Ward 17 to talk about the now completed Franciscan village uh expansion because I was so accustomed to waiting for the BZA process to come into play, and there were no variances required.

So uh all one day some trucks start showing up and people are calling my office, and I'm realizing, oh, I was supposed to, I was supposed to schedule that meeting already.

And and now there's a um there's a project that's being proposed on the street that leads to the rental car facility, and there are some residents who are calling me saying, I don't want an industrial facility behind my house, and I'm trying to explain to them that, well, it's zoned for industrials, so we can have a conversation that talks about how to mitigate some of that and how to uh make sure that we are being sensitive to uh uh nearby residences, but I'm not in favor of trying to use any process to imply that people don't have property rights to to build what zone.

So I I say all that because it's a long way to say there's gonna be some growing pains in all of this on the council side for how community engagement occurs simply because fewer things are going to need variances and we're going to have to be a little more proactive and understanding when is the right time, not only when is the right time to engage with communities, but I also think in fairness, at least this is my opinion, explaining to people when there are opportunities for uh, you know, uh the the courtesy of community uh of reaching out to a community, seeking feedback on things that can be like mitigated, like landscaping and things to make enhance something versus when community engagement is tied to a legal process like a zoning variance that could have larger implications on whether or not something occurs at all.

And I and I think that people have maybe conflated those two things because of how frequently they become intertwined in our chaotic system.

Uh so all that to say that I think this is moving in the right direction, there's growing pains we need to work on a lot of that, but I want everybody to be thinking through what we're gonna need to be doing to kind of work into a new normal if there's fewer variances.

End.

Thank you.

Um but you just confirmed that not every neighborhood is like a all size fits all because I want more retail space on my first floor, right?

Uh I mean on my uh yeah, on the first floor.

So anyhow.

Um council woman uh oh, councilman Davis, and then I have Console Woman Gray.

Hey guys, through the chair.

Hi guys.

Um Thanks for being here.

I I'm really excited about the future of the form-based code.

And and maybe just to back up for a second, I I tell this story a lot.

But um so my colleagues know I used to be the co-chair of my block club in Tremont, and I used to oversee part of the variance delivery process.

And you know, I think I live in an in an enlightened community that wants to see more stuff in our neighborhood, more neighbors, more retail, more restaurants, more bars.

One of the biggest frustrations I ever had was um the you know, our block club used to meet at the Roosevelt Post 58 on Professor, kind of next to the Manlypad and across some Tanduel.

And they closed because there were three Polish American themed um veterans bars uh within a block.

It's a great neighborhood.

The post closed, and Kate's Fish uh partnered up with a guy who used to work at the Happy Dog to open up a fish restaurant there, and they got trapped in um permit hell for for quite a while.

And it's no one's fault.

It's it's a systemic failure.

It was an issue with their apparently the post was never zoned correctly to provide a restaurant, despite the fact that it opened as a restaurant, I think at the 50s.

And my community had understood it to be a restaurant for 75 years or so.

And here was a new person trying to open a new restaurant to provide a service to the community of affordable seafood that couldn't because of our laws.

Not because of individuals, not because of the planning staff, certainly, not because of the community resisting it, but because our laws are antiquated and broken and very stupid.

I I think about my own house, which is built in 1870, and I hate my house, just to put it out there.

Some beautiful old houses uh should be preserved forever.

My house has nothing but gravel in the basement and floors that don't that are like 45 degrees and a lead problem.

And I think about burning it down every morning I wake up.

But I also think if I burned down my house, I couldn't build it back because it was built in 1870 before our zoning code existed.

That that my house, which is predated every single person in this room, including this building itself, could not be rebuilt because our zoning code would say no, it's too close to X and you don't have enough front whatever, and who cares?

It's it's a very dumb code.

We we gotta do better.

Um we should I shouldn't be if I wanted to rebuild my terrible house, we shouldn't require me to jump through a thousand and one hoops and go get denied by the planning department because they're following the law, and then begged BZA for a variance to rebuild my house.

It's not, you know, how dare you.

It's my house.

Let me rebuild it.

I feel very strongly about that.

Um the campaign trail, it's I appreciate Councilman Harsh, thinking about the whole council's perspective.

Uh I did advocate for and went on a platform of upzoning, of legalizing three plexes and fourplexes and ADUs.

In my community, understanding, you know, let a thousand flowers bloom.

But uh my community was hungry for more housing supply and ADUs and in-law suites and increased infill development at the reasonable scale fourplexes uh was a big part of the campaign.

And I I'm committed to finding a way to do that.

Didn't run on form-based code, but ran on expanding housing supply and ran on eliminating bureaucratic rules and laws that hold us back from providing that housing supply that we desperately need.

So this is something I I understand there's probably edits, updates, um, increased enhancements for the trees and our streetscape, their furniture zones.

Um but but boy, it sure feels overdue that we have some sort of renovation to our code because I'm we're we're we're crying out for it.

The I'm going to the grand opening of uh Vessel Coffee this week.

I'm very excited.

It's a new coffee joint on on Detroit.

They got stuck between building and housing and permanent and zoning for a number of months again because it just this system is not designed for human beings to use to open their own built restaurants.

They they had to get zoning approval for a curb cut that pre-existed their lease at this building.

And and you understand this issue better than I will, so I'll just give my my backwards version of it.

But it already existed and was already approved under the prior tenant, and then they had to get it reapproved, and it's and they couldn't figure out why and didn't even know they needed to, and and they didn't apply for the right paperwork in time to hit their contractor goals, and then winter came and it was very hard to renovate.

And there was no need for any of that.

What a waste of thousands of dollars of their limited supplies, their time, and my community's still I mean, we're gonna get a coffee shop this week, but there was no need for that.

Wait, we could have had this months ago.

And a form based code would have helped alleviate those small business concerns.

Um I had a meeting last week with a developer who's putting four townhomes in a uh abandoned it.

There was an abandoned building, they tore it down, it's a lot now in Tremont, um 11th, uh 10th in Fairfield.

And um they got caught between building and housing and zoning.

One set of laws said the glazing couldn't exceed a certain amount, I think 55 percent, and the other set of laws said glazing had to be actually be higher than 75 percent.

And they were like, well, I have no idea what I'm supposed to do here.

Uh they they went to BZA, um, but they had to talk to me first, and I feel like that's outrageous.

They're building four town homes in a community that on a vacant lot.

Uh just just build the houses and don't ask me for just please build them.

The block club approved, North Literary again, very enlightened community.

But they, you know, I'm breaking my microphone, I'm feeling so passionate about zoning.

Anything that we can do to get out of the way of common sense building or leasing or business opening or living our lives in this community is a good thing.

So I I'm looking forward to finding new ways to support.

Oh I'll also add just one last thought, is thank you for bringing to my colleague, Councilman Hudson who I think had to leave, um, the citywide plan, because I I do think that was consistent uh theme I heard on the campaign trail and just living in the community for a number of years in my block club.

There's no there's no plan.

And people know that.

It'd be nice if we could have a clear, coherent plan up front and then follow the plan using whatever tools, mechanisms, medium needed to make sure what the community has decided up front will be happening.

Um but the ability to stack hands and say this is the plan, this is where we're going, and then follow that plan without a thousand and one variances needed just to live out our daily lives.

Um that that's really the goal here.

I want to emphasize that point.

Whether or not form-based code is how we get to that state is you know, I'm agnostic on, but I think it's really important to underscore the uh the need for a plan that we all agree on, and then we don't deviate from unless absolutely necessary.

So I'll stop there.

Any thoughts, reflections?

I've I've given you a lot.

Thank you.

Yeah, all right.

All right.

Well, with that I yield.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um next up I have Councilwoman Gray and Councilman.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you, Chair.

Appreciate uh coming to the table because this is very interesting for you to uh bring to the table because of the cause of the variance code, uh it can be uh um it can be confusing for the residents at hand, and you know how many uh chair to the team, you know how many uh meetings I've been there just to understand the structure of a BZA.

And it took me in a minute to get there, but I do attend the majority of all the hearings from out of the ward to BZA, and also the difference of the foreign-based co is this question chair to the team.

It's the forum based co extended for BZA, for uh building housing, because you know you have four different you have four different like commission boards.

Is this gonna be for all of the boards that you that's enhanced for base co-chair to the uh director?

To the councilwoman through the chairs.

So this is a type of zoning code, and it will be aligned with parcel by parcel.

So if that parcel is in a landmarks district, then it would still go to the landmarks review for historic appropriateness.

Um Shannon can speak a little bit to how variances work under the form-based code.

In many cases, there's a certain percentage of variants from the code that can be administratively approved just to give a little bit of that flexibility, and then it lays out some additional variance processes.

So I will refer to Shannon.

Yeah, through the chair to the councilman.

So the Board of Zoning Appeals will still exist, even anything through the form-based code.

Um, one of the the benefits of the form-based code text does is allow that administrative relief that uh the director was speaking of.

And when I say administrative relief, it's not just like a wide open um paintbrush, if you will, for the planning or administrator to just uh make exceptions here and there.

It's really minimal.

So, for instance, a lot of times you guys see like map setbacks that I have to bring to this board just to get in context.

Say a building comes down and a new building goes in place, a residential building, and they cannot rebuild because they were the context of that block unless they sit back 30 feet, right?

And so in this case, in front yard setbacks, there's depending on which district you're in, there's maybe five feet or 15 feet, but there is this administrative relief of like 5%, 3% or 10% that allows them to get that relief without necessarily having to go to the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Um, or let's say if you get administrative relief instead of a bench, you can have you know um bicycle rack, like there's just these really small, very common sense administrative reliefs that doesn't necessarily require uh the Board of Zoning Appeals, but the Board of Zoning Appeals will still work in the same way.

If they're seeking, and that's really laid out kind of by the state.

Um, but if you need a use variance, you have to meet the unnecessary hardship standards.

Um there's three of them, and then if you need an area variance, which is a dimensional request, right?

Um say you need a setback or a side yard or any height, whatever, um, that requires the practical difficulty standard, and there's seven standards, it's called the Duncan factors that the board gives to applicants to say you have to meet these to get the you know, um it's in their rules, it's laid out, they may not necessarily hand it out day by day, but um it's definitely on the website.

Um, but those are the variances.

So there's a higher standard for that use, which makes sense, and there's a lesser standard for the area, which is a dimensional constraint that's causing you not to be able to do something.

So that will stay the same that was uh regardless.

Okay, and the board of zoning appeals will also be still be available there for any type of administrative decisions, things of that nature.

None of the those relief options are still available for all applications.

Okay, thank you.

That's a good answer and a good explanation on how to um uh uh understand it.

And my second question, Chair to the team, uh due to the uh enhancement to say to enhance the existing form-based co pilot program and expand the form-based coal to additional districts districts per se.

Would that be like I'm giving you an example?

I inherit uh a new territory crossing the entire ward uh ward three.

Uh my previous territory uh didn't have a lot of industrial area at all, a lot of commercial per se in retail, and I got through that to understand the variance and uh how that work uh along the way, but I have a new uh area of Savic Village that is uh flooded with a lot of industrial um areas that you know that's a new to me, and also a lot of uh partials uh that is um that developers uh actually coming in to look in, you know, to look at to build across Salvic Village, which attend to Hyath versus Fleet versus Broadway.

And so that question is um a lot of residents, and I'm I don't want to be redundant and I will be short um live on this because a lot of councils already voice their opinion on the on on this um due to the partials and the industrial area, uh, would this form-based co pilot program would it extend to that particular area as the highest area of Savage Village as fleet to Broadway because we also having RTA coming in to build your new station on the fleet in and the highest end uh going across um Broadway to Bessoner, um dealing with someone that perhaps looking to come in to build a 62 unit, and that may be five to seven floors, and that's a problem right now with the residents.

So, would this form-based uh pilot program a stend in those various areas uh per se director to the uh director um per se to the councilwoman through the chair?

So the form-based pilot areas that we've been referring to throughout this are already established and mapped.

Those were those um three to four areas that you saw on the map previously.

When we talk about expanding districts, um that that's really about creating or drafting uh form-based code language and design to be applied to industrial areas.

We don't currently have that in our existing form-based code pilot language right now.

So that's one important area of growth that we've identified that we need because we do have industrial areas across the city.

Um specifically to your question about Slavic Village.

I know there's both a corridor plan and a neighborhood planning exercise going on right now, whereas part of their engagement they are having conversations about zoning updates and zoning recommendations that those planning processes would recommend to us.

So in some ways, Slavic Village and the area covered in in those planning efforts is a little bit ahead of the citywide comprehensive plan effort because you do have this ongoing planning already taking um, you know, already taking shape in your neighborhood.

Um speaking citywide though, our goal is eventually to get to the point where we have zoning districts under the form-based code that speak to all the types of uses and forms that we would like to see across the city and map those out onto individual parcels across the city as recommendations of what the zoning code should be updated to.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

That's it, Chair.

Thank you.

Um next up, Councilman Bishop.

Close us out.

Uh thank you, Madam Chairwoman.

Um I got a couple questions.

Um in section in section um two, it says under that under section 108B of the charter, the services and or purchase authorized by this ordinance may be made through a cooperative agreements with other governmental agencies.

And then it goes on to say that the director of city planning may sign all documents that is necessary to make the purchases and or obtain such services and enter into one or more contracts with the consulting selected through the cooperative process.

Can you explain um what what does that uh mean in layman's terms through the chair to the director?

To the councilman through the chair.

That's standard procurement language for contracts like this.

In the case of this contract, we would issue a request for proposals that goes through the consultant review committee and the board of control based on a qualified mailing list from OEO.

Uh we would score those proposals with the review team, make the recommendation to CRC and Board of Control about the selected consultant, um, and then the legislation gives authority for me to sign the contract that is a result of that procurement process.

So this body would have no way of knowing if you entered into a contract with with a certain entity uh once we pass this legislation.

Is that correct?

Um this body would not have additional approval over the specific contractor selected, if that is what you're asking.

Okay.

This gives the authority for us to go through a competitive bidding process to select a consultant.

Okay.

All right.

So um, Madam Chair, I would uh I would like to tender a uh an amendment.

Uh umendment.

Okay.

Under section one.

After um line about line four is uh to enhance the existing form-based co-pilot program and after program strike and expand the form-based code to additional districts and geographies.

Okay.

Do you have two amendments or do we just um Madam Chair?

I'd like to make an amendment in section two after um at the end of section two.

This says excuse me for a second.

This says uh that the director of city planning shall provide written notice to the clerk of council whenever any purchase is made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchases.

I will second and uh when I'll I'll offer discussion on it too, if I could.

Yes.

Discussion?

Uh that's just for the s for the sake of the department and I think the entire administration uh just this is something to flag.

I think that our concern is what if you were to go out for RFP and hire you know John Smith consulting, we get something in the city record that notifies us that you've entered into a contract with John Smith consulting.

But if we go through this 108B section and you could say you go through like county planning, we would not get any kind of notification.

So we're trying to make sure that there's some notification still coming back to council so that just we get that same sort of notification we would get as if it were done in-house.

So I know that this something that our staff has flagged as maybe a limitation, and I think something that we would like to see going forward.

So I don't suspect you all could have anticipated that.

It's not I don't think it's adversarial, but it is something uh maybe we would like to see to the law department moving forward as it applies to authorizations under section 108B.

Got it.

Councilman Harsh.

The spirit of the ordinance remains intact.

The work continues.

We just get a little more clarity with both of these amendments.

I encourage our colleagues to support both.

Got it.

Okay.

That's what I figured.

Okay.

Um so section one is cross out, expand the form based code to additional districts and geographies for the department plan.

Okay.

Yes.

Correct.

Um, Councilman Bishop, you're gonna have to redo the section two because in section two after at the end of section two.

Uh and that the director of city planning shall provide written notice to the clerk of council whenever any purchase is made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchases.

We'll get there.

I can text it to you.

The director of city planning shall provide a written notice to the clerk of council whenever any purchase is made through the cooperative process, which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchases.

I feel like they need a typewriter.

Or in five words, keep us in the loop.

What did you say?

The cooperative process.

Which notice show include the the details of such cooperative purchases.

Which notice shall include the details of such cooperative purchase?

Correct.

Good.

Thank you.

So thank you, Councilman Bishop.

We have second by Councilman Slive.

We've already had the discussion.

Any other questions on the amendment?

No?

Okay, so let's vote on it.

All this uh in favor, say yes.

Yes, yes.

Any no?

No.

The amendment holds.

Um ordinance number 1398-2025 as amended is approved, please sign on.

Madam Chair, can I uh ask one more question?

Yes, sir.

So uh this form-based code is the pilot.

You're saying you call you keep calling it the pilot.

So if it expands to pretty much any other districts, it will it at that point in time we can't call it a pilot.

Is that correct?

Is that fair to say?

To the councilman through the chair.

The pilot um has already been in effect, and what this is is taking learnings from the pilot to incorporate and then do a planning process to recommend expansion to city council.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Director, thank you, Chief.

I want to thank Mr.

Armstrong for being here and providing um his experiences.

Thank you to my colleagues.

Great conversation, great questions.

I've learned a lot from this process.

Um, DPS is now adjourned.

Thank you.