Order Madam Clerk, do we have a quorum?

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Um ladies and gentlemen, my colleagues, we are here today, April twenty second with the Department of Public Safety to provide an update on the recent uh authorization to renew the sound thinking shot spotter contract that the administration undertook.

They will also provide us an update on the implementation and status of our nuisance law.

So, director, would you please come to the table with your team?

And I don't know if you have any handouts or power point, yes, you do.

Okay.

So we'll jump into the um uh shot spotter um issue.

Um, as most members know, um, the shot spotter system was in effect.

Please correct me, director, if I'm incorrect.

Uh started initially at uh three square miles in the city, primarily on the east side.

Then it was expanded to thirteen square miles.

Um the contract um was up with shot spotter in April, correct?

That's correct.

Um, and the administration um extended it for another year.

Um the concern that we had in council is that there um before they decided to extend the legislat the the um contract, there had been no discussion with the council president nor myself nor members of council.

Um so what we're trying to understand today uh and would like to understand uh the rationale to extend the shot spotter contract and to give us and present to us any data or information you have as to its effectiveness.

Um in the past we had contracted with um CSU to give us a report on ShotSpotter.

The report uh was presented to City Council here at the table not that long ago.

Um and they indicated both um what where they thought it was effective and were uh and also indicated that um there was no way they could measure um whether or not it reduced criminal activity in the city.

That's correct.

Through the chair, that's correct.

Right.

So at this point, director and assistant director, you have your opportunity to present to us why you decided to extend uh shot spotter for another year.

Um and the dollar amount associated with that, Director was how much of the give me a second here, please.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you, Tanny.

The amount of the extension of the contract is uh $853,000 $40.

Okay.

Okay.

The floor is yours.

Uh thank you, uh safe chair uh Polinsic and uh other council members.

Uh thank you for getting this opportunity to come to the table and talk about our decisions to extend the uh gunshot detection technology through Sound Thinking or Shot Spotter.

Um Cleveland needs gunshot detection uh technology to keep our residents and visitors safe.

I want to start by saying that.

Um that's important.

We've had the technology, as you stated, since 2020.

It started in district four and uh as a pilot uh uh program covering approximately three miles.

Um that was based on data that was collected uh with the commander and our crime analysts uh at those that particular time uh including calls for shots fired as well as homicides and loanless assault shootings are not fatals and other uh data points based on that data point data set.

Um the decision was made to implement the gunshot detection technology in the three square miles, uh which were the the um the most violent areas within the third district.

Uh just to point at I'm sorry, the district four.

Well yeah, district four.

Do you do you have the um dollar amount with the original?

Do we know what the original dollar mountain was for shot spotter?

I don't I only have the amount for um the uh extension.

Okay, but I can get that from my staff to get you to the original amount.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Actually, actually, um here it is.

I found it actually.

Um that's not it.

I'll get to it to get you to thank you.

I apologize for that.

That's all right.

Council, would you say that again, please?

$2,758 and $500,000.

So $2 million $2,758,000 five hundred dollars ordinance $909, $2,000,000.

Okay, $20.

Thank you.

Okay.

Go ahead, keep continue, Director.

Uh as stated before, is a we need gunshot detection technology and uh to assist our officers as an additional tool uh to keep our residents safe.

And also uh as uh it's I stated as a tool to assist our detectives, our officers in solving crimes in our neighborhoods.

Uh we know that this technology has aided our our detectives integrated with our real-time crime center to identify uh suspects, uh subjects involved in uh shooting uh um individuals in our community and holding them responsible.

We also know that this technology gives our our officers uh once they receive an alert um the uh the ability to go to the specific area of the uh shot or shots that were fired historically uh in the city of Cleveland.

Uh folks really uh don't call uh when they hear shots.

It could be for various uh reasons, uh variety of reasons.

Uh we know that if someone does call for shots fired, unless it's happening right in front of them, um they don't have a precise location to convey to our dispatchers of where the shots are coming from.

You know, it could be a shot um uh from around a corner, it could be um a couple several blocks away as you articulated uh councilman Palenzick not too long at one of our meetings um where you heard a shot and it was several blocks away from you.

So with this technology, it gives our office again uh a uh uh very finite area to look for potential evidence or potential victims, and in several cases, uh our officers uh responded to uh alerts where we uh did not receive a subsequent 911 call and located victims of uh gunshot wounds and uh were able to administer uh first aid until EMS arrived.

We believe that uh that that aided in the survivability of uh gunshot victims.

So the gunshot detection technology is extremely important as a tool for our officers and detectives in the uh city of Cleveland.

Um that's the primary reason why we we we went to the Board of Control, and I say we myself uh from the Department of Public Safety, uh my team, I presented it uh at the border control, as you know, on April 8th to extend the contract.

Uh the contract was uh set to expire uh April of this year.

Uh we did not want to have uh um uh no coverage whatsoever.

Um so this was a software and it is uh the technology is the software, and uh that I was able to um based on the uh uh section of the the uh the the charter ordinances to extend the contract because it is a software contract and we've extended uh software contracts for for other softwares through the same uh provisions and and uh ordinance.

Yeah, okay.

The um I mean part of the the I think the rub here was that um there was no communication prior to the um extension of the contract uh with ShotSpotter, and then we've had that whole ongoing um I don't even know if you want to call it controversy or debate whether um whether FLAC was going to uh be expanded or a new system was going to come into the city.

So based on um your um testimony here at the table today, you totally believe that the expansion of SHATSPider, or not the expansion, the to extend the contract for another year will significantly help the division of police.

First, uh I want to address two things.

Uh I'll answer the the second part last.

Um the I take the onus and the uh the the responsibility for not uh talking to you specifically uh uh safety chair as well as uh president uh uh Griffin um for not talking to you and letting you know that we were going I was gonna go to the Board of Control to extend the contract.

I take that that on me.

I should have uh uh come to you and also council president uh and that will not happen again.

Uh we've we've talked and you know we talk weekly, and I should have uh conferred with you with that.

So I think we talked that the day before.

Yeah, we talked, yeah.

So that's that's that's that's on me.

That's those are my apologies and to come to to to the table here and let you know that will not happen.

And I've stated that before.

I've stated it publicly, and I'm gonna state it again publicly that um I will not uh do that again.

You will have uh prior knowledge of it.

Now the the second point, yeah.

Do I think you asked if it was gonna be significantly uh uh help us?

It helps us um on a consistent basis when I say it, that being the uh gunshot detection technology.

Um it helps our detectives as a matter of fact, as I was preparing for this uh um hearing, I talked with the division of police and and I wanted them to give me just specific um situations where the technology aided our our um our officers in solving crimes, um, and they talked to uh sent me a couple of these uh situations, for example, uh this year, uh February 14th of this year, uh over on the west side of Cleveland by Barrilla Road, um there were shots fired, approximately 102 shots.

Okay.

A little a little louder, director, a little louder.

Thank you.

I don't know what this is a little better?

There we go.

All right, so yeah, on February uh February 14th of this year.

Okay, February 14th of this year on the west side, um, there's approximately um about a 100 rounds were discharged, and we had multiple uh shot spotter alerts uh came into a short period uh within a short period of time.

And and if you know the technology and how it works, um the technology detects the uh the gunshots, it goes to ShotSpot or Sound Thinking and their analyst and their folks analyze it, and then once it's analyzed and is sent to our folks in the zone car and our dispatchers.

And that happens within about 60 seconds, and if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected.

So it happens relatively fast.

So that information goes to our officers, they respond because shots fired are code one assignments, it's the highest priority for the division of police.

Um they responded to that area based on uh everything was done when they got there.

Uh no suspects or anything like that, but our officers were able to find uh locate um locate uh evidence, uh shell casings and so forth, and coupled with our real-time crime center and our investigations from our detectives, able to locate videos, uh locate uh vehicles, uh identify suspects, and ultimately through uh really diligent uh work from our detectives identify its subject in that and that uh incident.

I wish I could show you the video of that our detectives were able to obtain for this to see these individuals, several, uh, shooting uh the rounds at each other.

Um one of them had what we believe uh uh had a um an automatic weapon uh to see him uh discharging an automatic uh uh weapon just uh uh casually down the street uh was really uh trouble.

It was troubling to watch.

But anyway, with all that said, again, it was because the alert of the shot spotter alert or the uh gunshot detection alert officers responded, was able to get information, take the the evidence that was submitted uh that they uh uh gathered at the scene, give that to our crime gun intelligence center, um, where they analyze the shell casings, uh gave information to our detectives and uh working with the real-time crime center, identify individuals and get them arrested.

So those are are uh just one specific incident where our our our technology through uh the uh gunshot detection technology coupled with our real crime uh center, crime center, and also our uh CGIC, which is uh crime gun intelligence center, was able to uh use a technology to uh find a suspect and hold them responsible for discharging weapons in our community.

Okay.

At present, give us some parameters or if you have a map, what area right now is covered by shot spotter at 13 square miles?

Through the uh chair, I that's I I don't have that, I should have brought a map with me unless Jason has it with them.

I um uh assistant director Shachner, I do not have it.

It is 13 square miles, uh primarily on the east side, as you you you mentioned, is primarily on the east side, fourth district started.

Uh we expanded a couple more miles in the fourth district, uh is in the fifth district, uh third district, um and uh a third district in the first district, I believe, and that borders the second.

So we'll chair we're gonna make that request that we get a map.

If you look at um the CSU report on page 39 of the CSU report has a map of the coverage area.

And I would just add to the director's comments about it cannot be overstated how valuable um gunshot techno uh detection technology is and being able to gather uh shell casings and that type of evidence due to how difficult it is for the average person who is calling 911 unless they're observing the actual shots fired, if they only hear it to pinpoint where those shots are coming from.

And this technology could pinpoint where it is, and gathering those shell casings, we could put them into NIBin, which is the uh National Integrated Ballistic Information Network, and be able to link that firearm to other crimes.

And then when that person or that is rec when that firearm is recovered and can be connected to a person, we can link back to prior events and pursue indictments, just like that case that um the director is currently uh director just spoke about those cases were collected, we were able to later link that to a person with that firearm to be able to go back to the other crimes that may have been connected committed with that firearm.

But you're also aware um assistant safety director that part of the in the um in the research that CSU did, and what we have learned from ourselves is that why a lot of residents are not calling CPD because they don't believe they're going to come or they don't come.

And so that's been an ongoing challenge for us in our neighborhoods, and I hear that all the time.

Uh we call the police and they don't come.

Um the other part of that equation was again uh what I thought the CSU report was was uh was fair uh that they indicated there there was no they could not make any measurable connection to a decrease in criminal activity.

And the other factor that they raised, which was of concern to us that as a result of this being a shot spotter um call or pickup, however you want to describe it, uh alert, uh you dispatch a car to that, and then many times when the car arrived, there's nothing there.

So that takes a quote unquote a first responder car out of service when they could be running to another call.

So we're we're trying to be we want to be transparent, we want to be fair.

We want to make sure that when we're allocating another 893 uh another 853,000 dollars, we want to make sure that we're having the not only an impact on criminal activity, but we're also being mindful of the cost associated with this.

And now on that point, the 853, where did that come out of?

Was that out of out of your general operating?

We talked with finance, part of it did come out of our Department of Public Safety and Finance was uh able to find the uh additional dollars.

So Ray, I um so we're gonna ask you to tell us again where that came from, uh provide that to us specifically.

Yes.

And through the chair, through the chair, in terms of crime prevention, fingerprints and DNA doesn't prevent or reduce criminal activity either.

Okay, but it helps us solve crimes.

And when we're able to solve crimes and find the people who committed them and bring them to justice, take them off the streets to help prevent crime later.

Um in terms of your other comment about reducing priority two calls uh for the CSU report, that was based on survey data.

They made an inference that suggests that it may possibly, because there will be more priority one calls, therefore it's logical that other type level of calls would seek be take longer, but that was just a suggestion.

Um I mean a lot of things cause those calls to not take longer de-escalation take makes it take longer.

Um domestic violence calls where an arrest by state law has to be made calls other so there's a lot of factors that go into it.

So the CSCU report did not say that shot spotter calls caused other calls to go unheard.

It was based on survey data and suggestions.

And also if I can add uh to the assistant director Shachner's point, um we believe, and division of police will tell you as well that the technology helps us solve crimes.

And as I just stated before, it helps us solve crime, which I believe will also lead to a reduction in crime.

Um our homicide uh rates right now were approximately uh I believe 26 and uh homicides uh right now 26, 27, sorry, don't have the exact numbers, should have in front of me right now for 2026.

Um our homicide solve rate is approximately 79 percent, almost 80 percent.

And I I believe that that's through um the technology that we have part of it, hard uh hard nose detective work and part of the technology they have in place, the gunshot detection technology, a couple with uh our license plate readers, uh real-time crime center, NIBAN, uh the CGIC, which is our crime gun intelligence center, all those uh factor play into uh our our detectives and our homicide unit having a 79 percent or 80 percent almost an 80 percent solve rate, and that's because of the technology.

So I it is extremely important this technology and in and the the work that our officers and detectives are doing, uh it aids them to uh solve crimes, which uh in effect uh reduces crime.

Okay.

Any other additional comments before I call upon my colleagues for questions?

Anything else you want to add?

Okay, I'm gonna start with the case.

Yeah, if I can, real quick.

detectives in our homicide unit having a 79% or 80 percent almost an 80 percent solve rate and that's because of the technology so i it is extremely important this technology and in and the the work that our officers and the detectives are doing uh it aids them to uh solve crimes which uh in effect uh reduces crime okay any other additional comments before i call upon my colleagues for questions anything else you want to add okay i'm gonna start yeah if i can real quick yeah and and also you know with mayor bibb it it's you know it the stress and the continued stress you know that this is a data driven approach um to us solving crimes reducing crime and so forth and we uh we deploy our resources beat on based on data uh and that's what we did here relative to the shot spotter or the gunshot detection technology is based on data uh and we'll continue to do that uh we hope that we have some full support of of uh council and make sure we give our our officers and the division of police the all the tools necessary to to be effective.

Well director I can only tell you this we everything you've asked for um we've given you and you know that uh we allocated 180 police we allocated funding for 180 police officers last year we didn't get there we allocated 180 uh funds to hire 180 officers this year um and it remains to be seen if we're gonna get again get there um we allocated the funds for the body cams we allocated the funds for the dash cams uh we allocated all the funds needed to upgrade the division of police so I will tell you from our side of this table um we have given you everything you needed and again uh it was the council who pushed for uh the body cams and um and dash cams as you know we gave you the drones uh so we've been very supportive but we want to make sure again the dollars that we are allocating are going to be properly spent and and have the impact that we want them to have so at this point I have uh vice chair councilman starr councilman jones yes okay okay um thank you and as well as the department for coming here to discuss this important topic and which makes things it's so important is I'm not gonna start off or talking about rather I'm for or against SHOS Potter but one of the things that is very important is the reason why we have things in place and find the loopholes do not sit well with me.

And what I mean by that is obviously anything contract over 5000 has to go through the legislative process and get the approval of counsel and based on just trying to get common knowledge of what has happened so we renew the contract for worth 850 thousand dollars correct to the chair through the chair to uh councilman star that's correct 853000 800 853000 when did this contract with shot spotter actually end it?

Through the chair um the actual contract um it was kind of a two-part the contract for the first three um uh square miles ended in uh the end of 2025 but um the the shot spotter and our folks from sound think of really gracious and continued with the coverage the next 10 miles um uh square miles that what's on the contract expired or were set to expire April of this year um so that's why we felt it was really important that we continue the coverage based on the things I stated before was there a specific date day in April do we know what that day was through the chair we can get that for you but there is a specific date yes yes so we knew that we had the first two phase part of this contract we had one that was ended in 2025 then we had another phase that was ended in 2026 and I believe the first part was when we enter into the trial period where we had shot spotter in different areas only in certain specific areas and then the one that ended in 2026 is the one that covered almost all of our police areas coverages for all fifth districts correct through the chair councilman stark the uh original contract with uh uh shot spotter was in uh I believe 2020 and it was a pilot uh project program and it was uh coverage three miles square miles in the fourth district that's where the program started um it expanded upon in I believe 2023 I could be wrong maybe twenty twenty-two uh expanded to um extended the contract and expanded to a 10 additional square miles and if you can give it those exact dates we'd appreciate it thank you yes those dates are very important thank you Dan um so therefore once we knew that we were into a contract we knew the dates when they were ended why wasn't we proactive in getting it to council to be able to discuss an opportunity for you to renew as opposed to what was done um where the administration well you as a director was able to um enter into this this new contract without council authority what what makes sense of that through to to the through the chair through the chair to councilman starr the extension of the contract in 2023 that was extended uh in 2023 was done through the board of control it was not brought to count council it was through section 181 point one zero two as you're aware uh the codified ordinances um the first extension went through the board of court control it was not brought to to council um because uh that was uh a a the a

What would make sense of that to the through the chair?

Through the chair to councilman Starr.

The extension of the contract in 2023, that was extended.

In 2023 was done through the Board of Control.

It was not brought to Council.102 as you're aware of the codified ordinances.

The authority to uh put an extension through the board of control, which is what I did.

Now if you fast forward to 2026, uh under the same uh premise and the same section, uh we did not want to have a stopgap.

We didn't want to have uh not no coverage, so again, we follow the same procedures and authorization that that's uh given to any director through section 181.102 to extend the contract with uh sound thinking or shot spotter.

Um I understand you say about the the board of control and the mayor, which is the mayor and the cabinet, um, for you to be able to enter into additional contracts because it you didn't want to disrupt the actual services that was needed for the department of safety or the police to usage, so that's why you went to Board of Control as opposed to um bringing legislation or bringing a contract agreement or anything like that to council, as if the board of control um by the by the what you say by the codify ordinance allows you to be able to enter into a renewal.

Is that what you're basically saying?

The I'm sorry, through the chair to the councilman.

Um this is a provision that was exercised uh in previous contracts, again, not just with uh this particular uh extension of a contract for this uh sound thinking or or the uh gunshot detect detection technologies and software and this provisions that we've done.

We've done it for other uh softwares, for example, there's a ZOL, which is uh uh a uh software for the division of fire.

Um we needed to extend that contract.

We went through the board of control to extend that particular software contract.

Um we did the same thing here with the sound thinking contract or uh shot spotter contract to extend that again as something that we've done based on the uh the authority that's granted to us through that section.

And to the chair, uh to the councilman, I I would say that the city does take the wording of this ordinance very seriously.

And if you would recall back um we had previous we had to bring software for legislative authority, and I believe it was the Deccan software for the division of fire, because when it was originally purchased, it was under $50,000.

Of course, with inflation, it now became over $50,000.

We tried to go through the 181.102, but the law department said no because there wasn't it requires original specific ordinance authority.

So the original contract needs that ordinance authority um to be able to use this type of extension.

So it's not a blank check, it's not a rubber stamp.

This is thoroughly reviewed by the law department and then by the board of control, um, which is public, which is streamed on YouTube.

Um thank you, Jason uh uh assistant director Shachner.

That's the point, you know, to a point of clarification is that you know the system was you know, the board of control is uh open to the public.

Uh there's notification it goes out to over uh well over a hundred individuals, uh, and it's open uh to the public, the the board of control, and again, through the section, the 181 uh point one zero two uh without riots authorizes uh any director to go through them for off to uh extend software contracts so 181.102 was never extended, intended by to bypass legislative oversight for a high dollar requiring re reoccurring in contracts, right?

Can you repeat that question?

Can you so basically with the way is 181.102, it is set up for you to make a decision without having to go through legislative oversight for any high dollar reoccurring contracts, right?

Through the chair, the councilman.

I don't believe that is uh correct.

Because you we you can only authorize contracts what legislative authority you originally got for the original purchase, plus with money that's appropriated, money has to be there.

It has to be able to certify a contract.

If council didn't provide funds for software for the division of police, this extension would not be possible.

So there is legislative authority, there was oversight over the contract made to continue to avoid an interruption in services.

And we would go back to the division of police did start looking to an alternatives back in June of 2025, a year in advance of this contract expiring, brought legislation forward to enter into a new contract, as you recall that um it was a flock product um called Raven.

Um that the division of police did their due diligence, canvassed the area, looked at all the different types of technologies and was bringing legislation for you.

Um when we had our discussions in November with the CSU report, there was a desire among council to go through an RFP.

Um we did not object to that.

We are working on the RFP similarly to how Chicago has an R similar RFP out for gunshot technology.

Um, but that takes time.

Uh when it was originally uh thinking about what type of technology we're going to use or continue with for the gunshot detection, it was not uh contemplated that we would be in this position.

So with the added additional time needed to do an RFP, we needed to do a temporary extension through the ordinance.

And there will be ample opportunity to comment when we bring legislation for if shot spot if sound thinking um is the best with the RFP, we go with sound thinking.

If it's someone else, we'll bring that to you.

Um and that new contract will have to go through uh council or may need to go through council.

I don't want to make yes, I I got you, chair, because I know I'm I know I'm getting close to time and I seen the dean looking at me.

Um, but the thing is I just do have some questions, and I definitely am going to want to send over.

So before we go in, I definitely want to make sure I get these questions out.

Like, is there any way the administration can provide documentation showing the how this contract meets the definition of professional services from that ordinance or from the codified ordinance under 181 point 102?

And then on top of that, how does this ongoing annually uh reoccurring technology system qualify as professional service rather than citywide operational program?

And then also at what point does this contract under that codify ordinance 181.102 require legislative oversight due to the size or during the duration of this contract.

But then also I would definitely want to know is how many contracts over 500,000 have been executed under this same rule of 181.102 without council approval in the last five years.

How many times have we enacted this or this administration enacted this rule in regard to reoccurring contracts or execution or moving forward?

And then I definitely am going to send these over um Dean, but also I want to understand that if this rule is only being utilized to bypass the legislative process, and if it was up to me, if it was up to me, I will be very hesitant to pass another piece of legislation from this body regarding anything, rather how you want to use any charter language if it does not go through the legislative process, if it was up to me, because this just says it doesn't shows that you're being transparent, it doesn't show that we're not able to actually go through the legislative process.

It's like, hey, we need to make this happen, even though you knew in 20, you knew that in 2020 when that contract was ended, and then obviously we knew the other contract was ending this month as well, where we had enough time to be able to do everything we need from bidding process to making sure we have everything in place to to allow us to determine if this shop spotter is the best thing to do.

And also, I will ask Dane, um, why don't we have sound sound thinkers or shot spotter actually act the table presenting on some of his services as well as opposed to just the administration here?

I believe that is very important topic to discuss because we did get the the um assessments that CSU did, but we should have the actual ones who who is administering ShotSpotter or Soundthinking to be here to be able to explain and ask questions and I yield, Chair.

Thank you.

But let me just go back to um the issue of 181.

I've asked the council president um when we were made aware of the action of the Board of Control.

Um Council President and I discussed this issue, and um I've asked him that we need to take a good deep dive into 181.

Um, and if we do, if we should consider amending that to include the $50,000 cap, because the question is this contract, this extension was for $853,340.

What if it had been for two million or even larger, there would have been no requirement for them to come back because it was classified as IT technology.

So we collectively as a body, we're gonna have to have that discussion and that discussion soon about either we either repeal that section or we amend that section so we can have the legislative oversight that you just spoke to, but I have spoken to the council president about that.

Um the process went through it through the board of control is a transparent process.

I just want to make sure that because I don't want folks to think that we're doing things that we're not allowed to do or authorized to do.

The board of control is a public uh uh hearing.

Um we send uh notification, I don't uh through the board of control.

They send out notification to over a hundred uh folks uh for it's an open door, uh it's open to the public, and so it's not something that we're doing behind closed doors.

Um it's a very transparent process.

I sat here and I'll continue to say it.

I should have talked to you.

Okay, uh Chair, and we've had our conversations before.

I've had the conversation with the council president as well that uh I should have notified you that we were going to the board of control.

I take the onus for that now, that that's on me.

Um again, it won't happen uh going forward.

Director, no one's no one at the table is alluding that you did anything or the administrative anything illegal.

You you followed 181 uh point um 102.

But again, the question is had that been three for three million dollars, there would have been no requirement to come back to council.

And so that's our concern because uh if you know the the history here, I was asked in December to pass the flock piece at the last uh meeting, and I indicated I would not do that uh without um without there being a um proper an RFQ and RFP that would go out.

Um so we held that legislation.

Uh we knew that this was running out, and there was some discussion whether you were gonna come in with a a a flock piece.

Um, and again, we our position, my position was very clear, RFQ, RFP, which used to alluded to a moment, both of you.

Um, but here we are again, we went to the 11th hour in April, uh, and then the contract with um we call ShotSpotter now uh what's their new name, sound thinking uh to extend it.

What's this is extended to what date?

One year.

So one year, so it's April of next year.

April of next year.

Okay.

So um I want to thank Councilman Starr for his line of questioning.

Um let me see what we have.

Through the chair, yes, sorry.

And you mentioned looking at 181-102 and financial limits, things like that.

Uh I would just respectfully recommend uh canvas of similarly situated cities that I think you would find that the city of Cleveland is an outlier in terms of the $50,000 requirement.

Say it again.

Is an outlier in the $50,000 limit.

Okay, but in all due respect, assistant director, you have to understand our perspective here.

We are the we can't hire, we can't fire, we cannot deploy, we cannot administer, we we provide the funding.

And under 181.102, if if if the extension with ShotSpotter would have been $3 million, that would be there would have been no approval by council needed.

That would through the chair, that would only be the case if there was no approval in the budget for $2 million.

But you found the $853.

Okay.

So then that's why I'm going to ask where that 853 came from, because I don't believe it was in the director's drawer.

It came from somewhere.

So on that point, I'm going to call Councilman Joe Jones.

Please, I I want to thank I want to thank Councilman Star and anyone else for keeping time.

We're 10 minutes out of the first round here.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

To the director, I see we got a whole lot here to like unravel, unpacked.

Being a member of the committee, when we talk about 181-102, Mr.

Chairman, I would suggest that we bring that back and amend it.

Especially when there is no limitations.

And we've been sitting here at this table since 2018 when 18102 was approved.

And we still haven't gotten our police forces up to where they need to be in terms of manpower on the streets.

So it brings me into asking the question that you have stated here that you were pressed to approve another company.

And Mr.

Chairman, what was the name of the company you were talking about?

It was uh it I was asked, we we had a piece of legislation the um the past, it was for flock, and we indicated that we were not going to pass that at the last meeting of the year.

We weren't going to do that.

We we suggested, recommended that the administration should go out for an RFQ, RFP, uh as it pertains to any extension of any type of gunshot detection system.

Well, well, then that leads me to this question.

If the administration was pushing for the flock, um now the question is how effective is Spot Shotter, and why are we asking for money for them if we wanted to have another service?

Through the Chair to Councilman Jones, uh, we wanted to make sure that we had coverage with the tech now gunshot detection technology until we had the opportunity to go out for an RFP uh for the product as stated by you, Mr.

Chairman.

You right at the mic, but now your voice and went low.

So you have to speak like we put your outside voice on.

You know, you was out there on the street being a police officer at one time.

Through the chair, we wanted to make sure through the chair to Councilman Jones.

Uh we wanted to make sure that we had coverage for the uh 10 square miles, I'm sorry, the 13 square miles.

We wanted to make sure that we continue to have coverage.

So that's why we went through the port of control to extend the contract uh as a stop gap until we had the opportunity to go out for an RFP.

So we would have had both of them, so we would had both spot shotter and flock at the same time.

So I mean the issue is why why go for flock when you got spot shot, and then why are we approving spot shotter now if you wanted flock?

Through the chair, um again, we wanted to make sure that we did not lose coverage of the uh technology, gunshot detection technology.

That that was first and foremost.

Um we did bring uh last year's uh council uh safety chair stated uh uh legislation relative to uh new potential.

Is why would you want to have another service over another service?

What why why are we sitting here talking about um this service and you really didn't want this service, but you wanted another service, and what was the difference between the two services that would cause you to get rid of this service and go to that service and and then then all of a sudden you pull it back?

So I don't know.

I'm sitting here as as one of the members of the of the don't have the inside information, and I'm trying to figure it out.

Through the chair, uh the legislation was uh held by uh uh the council chair, uh uh safety chair, the legislation was held.

Uh we wanted to make sure again, and I'll answer the question.

We want to make sure that we had uh stop gap until we can go out for an RFP.

Um we wanted to make sure that we had uh integrated uh uh system uh for the gunshot detection uh technology.

And what I mean by integration, I wanted to make sure we can integrate our cameras, we want to make sure we can integrate our uh our license plate readers, all that into uh uh integrated system to assist our detectives, our analysts and the real crime time center uh to be able to do their job even more effectively and efficiently.

So we don't have that right now, is the system with the shot spotter not integrated?

Through the chair, as the current system that we have right now, the uh the gunshot detection technology is not integrated into our camera systems.

Uh so no, we do not have the integration there.

What happens now through the uh technology, gunshot detection technology is there's an alert, shots are fired, uh, an alert goes off, uh it's analyzed, uh, the information goes to our dispatchers as well as our uh zone cars, they respond to the area.

Now, if if there's a car, I mean sorry, if there is a camera in area, the real-time crime center can get up on that camera and you know, uh pan tilt and zoom into that particular area.

Uh but if it isn't, uh we have uh no cameras in there.

Now our investigators will go out and canvas and try to find uh surveillance cameras and so forth, they can do that.

But what we're looking for is uh uh integration integrated system where there's an alert, cameras already there, um the officers are or an analyst in our real-time crime center will have the ability to go up on the cameras immediately and give uh real-time uh uh information to our zone cars who are responding to the scene.

Also gives our uh analysts and detectors are signed to a real crime our real-time crime center, uh real-time information to the uh to see suspects potentially.

Okay, so let me make sure because I know you will keep talking and my time be done.

So I want to really get down to it.

When you say integrated, right?

So are you saying uh, Mr.

Chairman, to uh the safety director um Drummond that um with the newer technology with Flock, it would allow for integration, meaning that now this is I'm trying to extrapolate from you because you you said so much.

Uh and you probably could say a whole bunch of more.

You probably give me an hour speech on just that.

Um so my question is is when the shots are fired, do your camera systems in your real-time uh center pops up and turns red or something, or the cameras come on in those areas where the shots were fired, or we know I mean when you say integration, can you get integrate it?

Can you tell us how that is it that way or is not that way?

Sure, I'm not advocating.

I want to uh I'm sorry, through the chair to councilman.

I'm not advocating for any particular system.

Um I want to make sure I'm not advocating for flying.

I know, but just tell me about my question.

Right, I know.

I just want to make sure that's a good idea.

I'm asking you.

You you're gonna give a whole lot of you're gonna give another 10 minutes away, and I'm gonna have to come back on the back end.

I want to do it in 10 minutes, please.

Through the chair, you do I lost my train of thought that I was trying to when the when the shots are fired through Flock, because it's a difference between spot shotter.

You're saying that spot shot is not integrated into the camera system, right?

Through the chair, that's correct.

Okay, so then that's okay.

So then the the flock is.

So tell me how that is with the camera system.

How is that does that work?

Is it a better technology?

Through the chair, flock uh system is not uh doesn't uh we do not have a uh flock, we do not have a flock uh gunshot detection system in our and and within the division of police.

We do not have that.

Our current system is through sound thinking, shot spotter technology, gunshot detection technology.

So flock is not there.

What we have with Flock or license plate readers is what we have with them.

So currently, our current system with shot spotter does not have cameras integrated with it, which what I mean by that is if there is a gunshot detected uh through the system, um, there's not a camera that's uh integrated with uh the the acoustics that can actually go right to that particular area where the shots are coming from.

That's what I mean by integration.

Okay, so then with the with the other system, it would be able to do that.

Would it or would it not be?

Through the chair, uh that's why we're gonna go out for an RFP.

I'm asking, would it do it or not?

We will hope we hopefully we'll have a system hopefully we have systems out there that will be able to integrate the acoustics or gunshot detection uh technology along with other acoustics, uh integrated with cameras so we'll have real-time uh situational awareness what's going on with if it's so when the shots are fired, the camera systems are pick it up.

Through the chair to Councilman Jones, that's correct.

All right, and then the does the camera systems that we have in terms of integrated technology, would that also be like a um you use the term um detecting license plates, a license plates reader, with it is it technology integrated into those systems too as well, or is that something different?

Through the chair, the the current system we have our uh cameras are not integrated with the acoustics or the gunshot detector detection technology.

Are they are they integrated in the technology to detect the license plates?

Through the chair, we have uh the flock system, we have license plate readers, and that's integrated into our real-time crime center.

So and those are actual individual, Mr.

Chairman, systems set up just only to read license plates?

Through the chair to Councilman Jones, that's correct.

And our current camera systems don't have that capacity and technology to do that.

Through the chair, we have uh cameras throughout the city of Cleveland, which are license plate readers.

Do we have them where they're up on the polls that are reading the actual license plates?

Through the chair to Councilman Jones, that's correct.

Okay, so then when shots are fired off, when you say integration integrated, they will be able to detect whatever car whatever cars are moving during that period of time in that area to detect those license plates?

Through the chair to Councilman Jones, the uh our hope is that through the the integrated technology if a shot is uh shots go off, it's confirms the shot, we'll be able to go we being the division of police and their their employees and members will be able to to look at cameras in that specific area where the shot was uh discharged.

And then how effective, Mr.

Chairman, is our current system uh in terms of spot shotter, because you know I was a supporter of that system when they first brought it in, and that was one of the reasons, Mr.

Chairman.

I'm asking the questions because we were told that you will come back at some point and give us an analysis and a breakdown on how efficient and effective spot shotter has been and how it has performed.

So do we have any statistical information on that?

And and then what leads me to have concerns is because we don't have that many police, Mr.

Chairman, and and you might have to put me you put me on the back end again.

Uh we don't have that many police.

Um has it been effective uh you know because of uh not having enough police officers to get to those locations to check them out?

Have we had those kinds of issues?

Through the chair to councilman Jones.

I the system has been effective.

Uh and I stated earlier we gave some uh examples, specific examples where the uh technology technology uh aided our detectives in solving crimes, identifying uh subjects, suspects, ultimately leading the search warrants and uh arrest of individuals involved in uh discharging firearms or shooting individuals in our community.

So we were able to catch some people?

Through the chair to Councilman Jones, that's correct.

It would be nice, Mr.

Chairman, to get a breakdown on just how effective the system has been that we've used.

Um I am concerned about 18102, Mr.

Chairman.

I think we need to bring that that piece back and and modify it.

Uh Mr.

Chairman, I would also suggest a full uh as my colleague um Richard Starr has stated, a full understanding of uh spot shot or have them come in and give us a breakdown, of course, with um our our good strong safety director to talk about uh how effective the program has been.

And Mr.

Chairman, I just think it's not fair that we don't have this expanding because we were told that uh if it is effective, it would be expanding.

Now I got a lot of shots going on in my neighborhood, and we don't have the spot shotter.

And so I don't know, Mr.

Chairman, um how we can get that in our area, but I would love to work with the safety director to see how we can expand that um and deal with some of the issues that we're having in our neighborhood in terms of quality of life, and um and uh I would be appreciative, Mr.

Chairman, and thank you.

Thank you, Councilman.

You put me back on.

Yes.

Councilwoman Nikki Hudson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um through the chair, uh uh you know the you said that the cost uh to extend the contract for one year is eight hundred and fifty-three thousand three hundred forty dollars.

Is that exclusively for software?

Through the chair, uh that's correct.

Um because there are um, you know, um the gunshot technology, you know, devices themselves, the the that go up on polls.

Um is is that uh when were those paid for and how much did they cost?

What what contract are those included in?

Through through the chair to councilman.

We don't own those, sound thinking owns those.

So is that part of the contract?

It's like software as a service.

Yeah, the sensors uh through the chair to uh council uh Hudson.

Yeah, that sensors that state is uh we don't own that uh as a matter of fact, we don't put them up.

Uh the uh shot spotter or sound thinking, they put those up.

So we don't own this is a software that we're paying for.

That was part of the 2.7 million original contract.

The original contract covered the cost of them of sound thinking installing their equipment.

Through the chair, uh through the chair to council member, that's correct.

Okay, and um through the chair, uh how do you determine where those sensors are deployed?

Through the chair, it's based on data.

It's a David data-driven approach.

Um it's for the shots uh fired calls uh that we we know of that's recorded through our CAT system.

It's based on uh homicides in that particular area, it's based on non-fatal shootings in that particular area, and based on those statistics, uh uh we are able to locate the areas with uh they're really problematic.

And uh once we identify those areas working with uh our partners with uh sound thinking um uh they weren't went out and put the uh sensors up in those particular areas and and again the reason the again I'm sorry it's all based on data is how we decide which area to put the uh the uh the technology in.

And um, you know, I've been looking at the CSU study uh just so you know one of the areas that this was expanded to in the first and second district is is you know where my home is.

Um it is um this in 2024.

Um this technology was expanded to my particular neighborhood um with good reason.

Um and um and so I'm wondering if you have statistics about um you know the effects this has had um on those neighborhoods um in particular.

Um if if you've um done any um studies um to to quantify um you know lives saved or um calls that have been responded to or not responded to because of this technology.

Through the chair, um we we have uh data that I'll have the division of police uh uh put forward relative to we believe uh lives saved through the technology receiving a an alert uh for shots fired, our officers respond locate a victim, administer first aid until um EMS or fire arrives.

Um we know that the individuals lived.

We're hoping that obviously it's from um what our officers did on scene coupled with the MS and have obviously what they do at the hospitals.

Um we know on average it's about four minutes before uh calls come in on the shots fired on average.

Um then our officers are there, and if they find a victim and they've uh found victims in several uh instances, uh they're administering first aid, and again the MS is there to able to do what they can through their training until EMS gets there to get the individuals to the uh hospital so the hospital can do what they do to save uh lives.

So we have uh um we believe uh um several uh situations with it where that did occur.

Um and then there are calls where we um sound we receive the alerts where we have no subsequent 911 calls.

That was my next question.

Thank you.

Through the chairs, do you have the data on you know false alarms when it you know might not have been um shots fired?

Um if it's fireworks or if it's car back firing or um you know some other noise that might have um you know caused the alert.

Um through the chair, that those numbers we do have uh uh information, but those alerts are are where it's not or false positive is is those numbers are minute.

Um the officers uh when they receive the alerts, of course, it goes through the uh sound thinking uh shot spotter folks uh who analyze it uh to discern whether or not it's a gunshot, uh and then again within a minute that information is conveyed to uh less than a minute or within a minute is conveyed to uh division of police and the officers respond to uh the shots fired calls and part of their responsibility is to make sure if they don't find a victim is to check for shell casings and things of that nature, other evidence um that they can uh give to our CGIC unit, which is a crime gun intelligence center, uh, so we can uh see if whether or not uh that particular weapon was used in other crimes.

So it's a lot of uh different facets that's involved in it, but the vast majority of the calls for shots fi shots fired based on the alerts are legitimate shots, shots that were fired.

Sorry, through the chair to the councilwoman.

Just to clarify, I believe um it officers are dispatched uh at an average of 81 seconds from a shot uh from a sound thinking alert um with a median of 78 seconds as opposed to the three or four minutes of uh 911 call.

Thank you for the clarification.

And um through the through the chair, um is is there a way that um we can get the data on um other contracts, you know, a list of other contracts that have gone um that have been approved through Section 181.102.

Um through safety?

Yeah, through safety, through safety, and then also in particular the amounts of those contracts.

Um just the understanding request.

Okay.

Yeah, through the chair, but I believe uh Councilman Starr, so I asked for the same information.

And and then um when did uh through the chair, when did the administration decide to renew this contract with Sound Thinking?

been approved through section 181.102 um through safety yeah through safety through safety and then also in particular the amounts of those contracts um just the understanding request okay yeah through the chair but I believe uh councilman stars so I asked for the same information then and then um when did uh through the chair when did the administration decide to renew this contract with Soundthinking through the chair to councilman uh councilwoman uh Hudson uh we knew that it was coming to to uh um it was going to expire obviously April of this year uh last year as stated before we uh wanted to uh get the more integration with the with the technology um we we brought to this council this this body um uh um to an a contract well not a contract uh ordinance to um to integrate the system um the the safety chair held the the ordinance legislation stated that we needed to go out for an RFP uh which is what we ultimately uh are going to do uh but in the interim we wanted to make sure that we um had coverage in those areas so um as the end of the year progressed uh which is when we attempted to get the um legislation through was held um so we started uh thinking how we wanted to see how we can move forward with uh the coverage and uh we made a decision or I made the decision that we need to have a stop gap until we can go out for the RFP um for um this technology and the integration of this technology ultimately going to the board of control before the uh expiration of the contract so through the chair when did you decide that you would go through the board of control and not get council approval through the chair um it was sometime uh towards uh early part of uh of uh this month that we talked about uh uh going through the I did uh going through the board of control um because I ask um through the chair because uh sound thinking reached out to me um during budget hearings and scheduled an appointment um with me to to discuss this they were in town I believe this is an out of town um company and um and and I had uh an appointment with them on the books in in March uh on March 3rd actually and um I my son was ill and stayed home from school so I had to reschedule and um in the process of attempting to reschedule they told me never mind um they didn't need to reschedule and I I didn't you know think anything of it at the time however um you know when when this came up it made me think that maybe they decided they didn't need to meet with council members because um you know back in March they knew that this contract was going through without council council approval so that's why I'm asking did you talk about this in March?

We talk about through the chair to councilwoman did we talk about extending the contract using um through the board of control through the chair we did not uh talk with uh sound thinking um shot spotter about going through the board of control we did not okay thank you um I'll yield for now Mr.

Chair thank you councilwoman through the chair just to clarify about the uh devices looking at the shots butter report that there was a one-time service startup fee for device installation of 1000 per square mile in the original contract thank you councilwoman Stephanie House Jones okay good morning um through the chair uh to our public safety team okay so can you help me understand I know you saying you get it but I know we're talking about this contract tell me how many contracts have we had for sound thinking shot spotter how many contracts did we have director through the chair I believe through the chair double check uh through the chair to council member house jones I believe is three total the original and two extensions okay and through the chair to the director when was the original contract through the chair to council uh member uh house jones I believe was uh 2020 I don't have the exact date but I can get that for you we've we've requested that no I know but again we're talking about it so I'm yeah I think it's very relevant to our conversation um and so the allocation contract that I voted against Ordinance 909-2022 what contract was that was an up to the chair to council member house jones that was uh second amendment to the contract which is the ordinance you mentioned 909-2022 so this is I guess that's what I'm I'm trying to get a clarification on and you indicated um that it was an amendment but that's not what this legislation said it wasn't an amendment

That was an up to the chair to council member House Jones.

That was uh second amendment to the contract, which is the ordinance you mentioned 909-2022.

So this is I guess that's what I'm I'm trying to get a clarification on, and you indicated um that it was an amendment, but that's not what this legislation said.

It wasn't an amendment, it was a contract.

Um yeah, it's just it it's a contract.

Um and I'm just trying to understand when we're talking about how I guess I'm the clarification is how is this an amendment from the original contract great whoever can answer that?

So through the chair, um could I know you you can look at that, but I I just want to highlight um in 909 um 2022.

Um again, this is one of those things where it says section eight that any contract or grant over 50,000 dollars to be entered into under this ordinance shall require additional legislative authority and um really trying to compare that, which this is a new section because it's underlined, and we had this conversation uh talking about um where uh it was utilized um or the codified ordinance 181-102 where gives the authority.

I'm trying to understand and reconcile those two.

Okay.

Through the chair to the councilwoman, so to answer the previous question, the way that law department extends contracts, but there's no changes, uh significant changes and extending the term of a contract is through an amendment.

So all the amendment did was extend a term of the contract.

And through the where is that amendment?

That's not what this I'm talking about in the actual legislation.

So the legislation authorized an extension of the contract, correct?

Is that what the legislation no?

I'm asking no, that's what I'm I'm I am not no.

I don't have that's what that's what when you're trying to say it and extended an amendment to the original uh uh contract in ordinance 909-2022.

I'm asking you where is that an extension of an amendment?

Because I don't see that in the actual legislation.

And so then as you all are indicating that you are able to use 181.102 because it was a part of the original contract.

I'm trying to indicate where is that in the legislation because I don't see it, which then I'm bringing up the reason why section eight is put in there, anything over fifty thousand dollar should come back to council.

I'll let you all look on that and we'll talk about it later, but I really want you all to highlight that point, and I'm gonna get into my questions uh very briefly regarding um because that this is the framing um of legislation that I voted against for various reasons.

I was the only person on council to do so.

Um, but I do want to go through the things as we talked about Shot Spider, how we indicated what it would do.

So through this point, um, one of the things in the executive summaries we talked about financial leveraging.

Um, through this point, have we the city of Cleveland been able to leverage and get additional resources to expand Shot Spotter in the City of Cleveland?

Whoever can answer through the chair at this particular time.

Well, we don't have the uh at this particular time no.

Okay.

Um one of the things under uh through the chair to the director, we talked about environmental sustainability.

Do we know how much gas has been saved as as a response to the responsiveness of our police officers within the city of Cleveland?

How we track that?

Through the chair to council member, we do not track the gas usage, but uh to this particular and to this particular your particular question, no.

Okay.

Um regarding uh we talked it under community impact.

Um, one of the things that were talked about through the chair to the team here.

Um, I know we had a conversation about police response times, and I know we talked about in cases where shot spotter is used.

You said the response time is 78 seconds.

Was that what I heard?

So the chair was an average of 81 with a median of 78.

81 median 78 seconds.

How is that reflected in our overall police response times comparatively when we look at our budget hearings when we don't see the impact in increasing in response times?

Through the chair to what percentage of it is it?

So the chair council member, we don't have that information in front of us.

Uh if that's a uh uh inquiry you want us to answer, we can uh get that information.

Yeah, I would like to know that.

And then I will go until probably my last question is one of the things that um as we were having the conversation originally around spot shot spider, we talked about um be this is one of the tools that will then help to lead for small businesses um a decrease in insurance and security costs.

Did we have the analysis to see in places where shot spider is there has been a decrease um in um security costs and insurance premiums for small businesses within the city of Cleveland?

Third chair council member, I do not have that information.

Okay, thank you.

Um so those are just my questions.

This is where we were touted when we had the conversation back in 2022, and I just wanted to bring this um forward to see as the things that we are putting out in the community to say why we are using certain things.

Um, we're not even tracking it to be able to show improve.

But the other thing is when um just in this conversation, we had a um the the the conversation around the fifty thousand dollars being an outlier regarding Pierce Cities.

And I I was not here when um the fifty thousand dollars, I know we when it was originally put forth, but I am going to make an inference.

The reason why it's there is because there's a lack of trust.

When you don't have a strong partnership, when there is a lack of trust, then things like this are done politically to ensure that people can be um fair dealers.

And from my perspective, the administration, you two director chief, were not being a straight shooter when it came to this contract because people knew how unsettled many Cleveland City Council members are.

And it probably wasn't your decision because you work for someone who has to make decisions.

Um, but that is a the reason why at this point the $50,000 is in there because we're just not being straight.

We're not being straight shooters for real.

Uh and I would hope that at this point, as we are in the second term, that the administration would work to be better partners with me as a council member and other members of Cleveland City Council who have the obligation to allocate the resources that you all are stewards of.

Until we probably get to this point to build an actual real strong trusted relationship, this $50,000 is probably going to stay.

And things like this do not inspire me to believe that that it is really the actual motivation to actually be a real partner.

So I'm gonna leave it there.

Um, and hopefully we can actually get some clarification on all of the questions that I have, but I'm not going to continue to you know belabor the point.

But thank you so much.

We'll get the information that you requested.

But I have to make sure we're we're clear here in the decision.

The decision uh to go to the border control was mine.

I want to make sure we're clear with that.

It was the decision to go to the border control was my decision.

It was not the mayor, it was not the there was no one else, it was not any other member on my team.

It was my decision to go to the border control, was not the law director.

Again, I want to make sure it's clear, it was my decision to go to the board of control.

I'm gonna make sure we're clear of that.

Okay.

And I will thank you through the chair to uh chief director.

Uh, thank you for clarifying that.

And so I will clarify um to you that your decisions have now caused an erosion of trust between Cleveland City Council.

Through the chair to I understand that, and uh that was certainly not my intent.

My intent was to make sure that we had coverage of the technology, the gunshot detection technology, uh, based on the things I've stated here before to give our officers an equipment that we believe have been really effective in solving crime, um, giving our officers that tool, and and again, that was my decision.

Uh I I'm sorry that uh uh you believe that it uh arose trust.

That was not my intent.

My intent was to continue to give our our community uh tools that uh making us safer, I believe.

Thank you, Council.

Councilman Slife.

I'll I'll I'll I'll pass.

I think my my questions were mostly answered um about understanding the the the just the process that this decision was able to be made through.

I'll I'll I'll I'll pass I think my my questions are mostly answered um about understanding the the the just the process that this decision was able to be made through um and I'm also interested in understanding what we should do as a body to to maybe tighten that up and I'll leave it there.

Thank you.

And so again, I did speak to the council president, you're part of the leadership team.

Um council slave, I would hope that we would discuss this in greater detail uh because I think there needs to be safeguards.

We need a we need to step back and consider the the possibilities uh because if things are classified as IT or technology, and there's no requirement to come back to us, the door is wide open, and I I have a great concern about that.

Councilman Jones, you're the last one up, the final comment.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um, you know, just listening to us, I want to thank my colleagues uh for their questioning.

Uh some of it was really thorough, so it gave me an opportunity to kind of like see the bigger picture uh of what some of the smaller detailed nuances are here as relates to um section 18102, uh in addition to what the original uh contract uh had stated.

Uh I was in full support of uh spot shotter um and came to the table as such.

And one of the reasons, Mr.

Chairman, is and always will be, is making sure that our police department has all the tools necessary to be effective and efficient uh in what they do in terms of going after the people who are causing mayhem and mischief in our communities.

And Mr.

Chairman, I've even had to uh uh hear shots and go out and try to figure out where they were, and even with other police officers and cars, we're rolling around trying to figure out where some of the gunfire has happened in our neighborhood.

So it's that's one of the main reasons why I support this, but there's sort of a a little cloud here, I'm quite sure that the director can certainly clear up.

And it is my hope, Mr.

Chairman, that we have a full process here and have Spot Shotter as uh uh one of my colleagues, Mr.

Starr stated, to really fundamentally come in here and tell us exactly what it is that they're doing.

And when I when I supported this, Mr.

Chairman, to the director and to the administration, I was told that it was going to expand and that we expand and upper part of the Lee Harvard area where we're hearing a lot of shots, and it's a lot of shots that are fired.

And Mr.

Chairman, you know, crime is in some degree unchecked.

We've had uh here just in the last couple of weeks, Mr.

Chairman, where we've had someone who's hit and killed.

Uh we've had, and as I've been saying here at the table for the longest, and it seems like it falls on deaf ears.

Um, where the traffic and the speeding is so dangerous that we're having cars, we just had a car flip over.

And um, so it's like we need help, and I want to, and as you have been here at the table, and you said this in your opening statement, uh, Mr.

Chairman to the director, we've given you everything we you've ever asked for.

And for me, I want to know that we're decreasing crime in our neighborhoods with these this technology.

I want to hear from the people who uh is offering and providing this technology.

I really want to hear the truth from you uh and the administration on what the tools you technically need.

Um when we talk about coming in and changing the contract to flock.

Um it and it's sort of like what uh uh Congress, I mean um uh councilwoman Stephanie House Jones has stated, you know, we we need to have that that that that relationship where we really fund because we're your partners.

No matter how you want to look at it on the other side of the table, we we want to give you the tools necessary so that we can keep our streets safe.

And so I want to be able to do that.

I'm not here at the table, Mr.

Chairman, to to beat up our safety director.

I'm here at the table to try to have a relationship and a partnership so that we can truly try to deal with these issues because for me, as being an elected in war one, it is and in the city is it's our goal to uh hopefully drive people back to the city of Cleveland.

And one of those things that are important, Mr.

Chairman, to us, is that we have a strong safety force.

That our safety force is so strong that it sets a standard.

And it it draws a line in the sand that says you can't come in our city and do what you want to do.

And for me, that's the reason why I sit here at this table.

That's why safety is so important.

Because if we have safety that's taking care of its business, like it needs to take care of its business, then we will have a safer city, and we'll have people who want to move into this city.

We will retain our existing population.

So when I sit here at this table, I really want to be able to be effective.

I want my time to really mean something while I sit here.

And at the end of the day, I want my citizens, Mr.

Chairman, to the director to the administration to be safe.

It is what we want, it's what we desire.

It's what we desire.

So, Mr.

Chairman, I would suggest that when we have the next session here, that we have a full-fledged discussion about these licensed readers, these license plate readers, how many of them do we have, how effective it is.

We have given the department uh oogles of technology.

Um you have probably some of the most sharpest systems that there is on the planet.

I'm I've sat here and and approved not just hundreds of thousands, but millions and twenties of millions of dollars into the systems of the safety to to know where a fly is sitting at.

And so, Mr.

Chairman, I will hope that we could do that and um do that soon.

And I and I just want to say uh, you know, um I appreciate your leadership and um and I'll wait for that hearing to happen.

I thought that was going to happen today.

Um I thought we were gonna have uh um spot shot of people here talking about how they're reducing crime.

And then I'll also, Mr.

Chairman, um, send some of my questions I have uh ahead of time before the session, and hopefully that those those those answers, those questions can be answered.

And I appreciate again, Mr.

Chairman, the work that you do do.

So don't think that I'm sitting over here at the end of this table trying to beat you up, make you look bad, or make the administration look bad.

I just need to know that I got some help.

Thank you, Councilman.

The purpose today was to explore how the administration decided to expand shot spotter uh the new system uh referred to it now.

I keep going shots of sound thinking.

That was what we're trying to get our hands on today.

I will tell you the only thing we haven't given the administration, and that was last year when they came in again at the 11th hour with the uh to expand or to um enter in a contract with Flock, which I felt was uh not uh not handled well.

And that's why we held that piece.

So other than that, we've given them um everything they've asked for, and we will continue to do that if we have the proper information and data.

So I'll work with the administration um to get a presentation.

I'll work work with the director, assistant director, if they wish to bring um shot spotter sound thinking to the table to for more in-depth discussion as uh as to the inner workings of the system.

I have no problem doing that.

We'll schedule that.

Thank you.

I want to say thank you for the council for working with us.

You have given us the tools that you mentioned, you know, from the body cameras to dash cameras, uh to the uh the current system that we have, gunshot detecting technology.

Uh yes, you've uh given us the equipment that our officers need from the the uh uh mobile data terminals and the cars, all those things, and uh we really appreciate and and I believe I I have a strong relationship with the with the uh um safety chair as we meet weekly.

Um I meet with uh others as well.

So uh I continue to build on that relationship.

Uh so thank you.

Thank you, Director.

We're here to work with you.

Um we just you understand the concerns that we have about transparency oversight that's critical for us.

Okay, let's jump right into the nuisance laws.

We have um, it's on your laptop.

We have a presentation.

Um just for the viewing public, the nuisance law was established by city council.

I can't remember when now I was uh co-sponsor to that uh nuisance law, then we revised it based on uh a real good discussion that I what I had with the director and the safety and director um I think it was early last year, uh, because many of us felt myself felt it wasn't working, the nuisance law, uh nuisance enforcement.

And I have to commend the director and assistant director.

Uh they really uh took a deep dive into the whole process of why it wasn't working, and they've implemented changes.

We amended the law, uh, and now we believe collectively, at least I hope so, uh, that we're starting to see uh fruits of our labors that the nuisance law is starting to be uh enforced and we can start to point to uh positive um changes in our neighbors, at least I hope so.

So the floor is yours, director and assistant director.

Let's go into the nuisance law.

Is going to lead the uh presentation uh relative to the uh chapter 630, uh criminal uh activity nuisances.

Thank you, Director, thank you, Chair, members of council.

We have a little presentation about the status of Chapter 630 criminal activity nuisances.

Uh prior to that, I do want to recognize some of our staff and teammates within the Department of Public Safety.

Um, Ian Aston, who's a fantastic asset to our office that's really taken on this task and organizing it.

Um Sergeant Lanton and Detective Jasmine Brown are also instrumental in ensuring that this is a successful uh program and that this ordinance is enforced to its fullest effect.

Purpose of this, um, as you may recall, was really to protect the safety and quality of life of Cleveland neighborhoods, because we believe that the property owners should be responsible for what happens on their property.

That the Cleveland Division of Police is not the private security of any property owner.

We do respond to crimes in criminal activity, but when you have a property that is consistently uh taking up the time of the division of police due to the fault of the property owner and their lack of attention, uh we believe the property owner should be held responsible for that and be a partner in trying to address this, unless instead of keep putting it all on the city taxpayers and the division of police.

So we have Mr.

Chairman here.

Yep.

That that will through the chair, that will be addressed in uh yes.

Okay, go ahead.

Now there are listed within Chapter 6301.

There are seven 173 qualifying violations.

So not every crime or any or not every property issue is considered a criminal activity nuisance under this ordinance.

There's 173 of them.

There's some examples up there, there are most frequent, like unnecessary noise and sorted conduct and dog nuisances.

But it's not all encompassing, but really affects quality of life issues.

So here's the process.

As you can see up here, we'll start with the first one, which is property identification.

Now, when we were first working out the kinks of this, I was the initial intake person, then was able to handle hand it off to Sergeant Lanton and Detective Brown.

And then when we hired Ian Aston, he really took on this initial process.

So what he does is he looks through the calls for service for the previous 30 days.

Now he does this by looking.

We have a Power BI system, and we do narrow the universe of offenses.

Because if you just looked at the past 30 days, you're gonna get thousands and thousands of properties, thousands and thousands of call calls.

So we have really two um routes this could go through.

One is our spot checking.

Our spot checking really focuses on quality of life issues.

So uh noise complaints, noisy neighbors, um, street racing, drag racing, uh, unnecessary noise sound devices, people playing music in their cars too loud in the driveway.

We focus on those.

And once we find properties that have three or more, we then look at that individual.

So it gives us a list of all the properties that have at least three of those type of um calls.

And then when we look at the individual property for the past 30 days, we look at all the calls to try and figure out what do we have probable cause for.

So then our initial intake, we look at um those calls, they're put on a list.

So for example, um, those violations must have some validity, i.e., it says in the notes that the officer advised the tenant to turn down the music.

Okay, so we have some evidence there, or that they heard over, they could hear the music or the disturbance over the phone within the call.

Or somebody or it was checked later, and there's a wearable camera system showing that that event actually happened.

Um so the properties that have not received a warning letters need three violations to qualify.

Properties that have already received a warning letter only need one violation to be declared a nuisance.

And then once you declare a nuisance, just one violation in there, you're gonna get fined again.

Uh properties with only one or two good violations are put on a beyond the lookout list, and then we review them every month.

And we also take requests from council members for individual properties that may have not met that criteria or initial search.

Like if there's assaults, we may not necessarily look at the ones that have a lot of assaults that occur just for the spot checking.

But if you have properties that you know of, or even the division of police, they have a system now form that individual officers could fill out of uh problem properties that we get alerted to those to look at.

So the next step is marking for review.

So the properties with three or more violations are then entered into a database.

We list the potential violations, we verify who owns the property.

That's done through my place on the Cuyahoga County website, auditors website.

And if more than three violations are identified, the most documented violations are selected and they're marked appropriately, as in, oh, this one's gonna be should be declared a nuisance, or we think this one should get a warning letter, and that's sent to our review team, which is uh Sergeant Lanton and Detective Brown.

So then they review team has more access.

Uh they're sworn law enforcement officers, so they have access to uh the record management systems, the wearable camera systems.

Uh they know the officers, they have better contact with the actual officers on the ground that could call and ask for follow-ups in the neighborhood officers to do.

So the review team reviews the list and they prepare a property file.

If there's no file exists, they create one, um, they put in reports, evidence, body cam footage, and they evaluate it.

They're either confirmed or denied, and properties with denied violations are re-reviewed for other violations.

So we just don't want to let it go just because hey, maybe the ones we initially selected don't have validity.

We go back to see if there's other ones that may have it.

Um any new properties with less than three violations again are put on a beyond the lookout list that we review monthly, and then properties may also receive an excessive call for service letter.

And some council members have experience with properties getting this excessive call for service.

This is when we just notify the property owner that hey, we're getting a lot of a lot of calls to service.

Uh please be aware of that.

Uh we want to make sure you're addressing it before it turns into an issue.

But oftentimes we don't have enough evidence to go through the formal process of the warning letter that requires the abatement plan.

So letter drafting and editing.

Um properties that qualify that after this review process that still qualify will then receive the appropriate letter.

So new properties with V three violations receive a warning letter.

And with 14, they have 14 days to give us a written abatement plan.

If they don't give us the abatement plan, they're charged a hundred dollars a day until they do.

Uh properties that previously received a warning letter will be sent a declared nuisance letter, and we'll be fined the appropriate amount, which is the first one's 250, then 500, then 750, then 1,000 for each subsequent uh amount.

Properties that fail to submit a written abatement plan will receive that failure letter and be found be fined $100 a day.

So we work with the division of assessment and licenses.

Um Ariel Colk is very helpful in division assessment of licenses.

She handles our invoices for the uh nuisance program.

Uh she's very good about checking the proper addresses and if the property owner is still the property owner.

Uh if that if hasn't changed since the last time we looked at it.

Would you point out?

Mr.

Chairman, who put you down?

Okay.

Okay, I'll put a general list.

Go on, keep going.

Thanks.

Uh so any nuisance property that qualifies for a fine will get it, have an invoice created by assessment licenses, and that's mailed with the letter.

And digital copies of all those invoices are kept as a record for the respective property files.

Uh the fines, as I said previously, are listed.

Um 6301.

So the letters are mailed on the first of every month.

Uh, prior to being mailed, we verify the property ownership.

All letters are digitally saved.

We send copies to the clerk of city council and the appropriate district commander, so they are made aware of what properties we've already declared and use them here.

Um list of properties that receive letters are kept and maintained.

Um there was a word change, so the older letters have different ward numbers on them, but uh Mr.

Aston has done a great job of going back and figuring out where they are in the new wards, so we're able to keep tracking them in the same system instead of having two separate systems.

We uh updated list of all nuisance properties for the by the 2026 wards were emailed to the clerk of council, I believe, uh earlier this week, I think Monday.

So all documentations filed by property address and maintained as a public record within our systems.

We also have an internal GIS system so we could kind of visually see where the nuisance properties are occurring.

Um they're giving us status as a means of classification, and we internally maintain all this data.

So the way we identify them for our GIS system is uh new so properties identified with three possible violations but have not been reviewed yet.

Under review, violations that are currently being reviewed, beyond the lookout, so one or two qualifying violations, excessive letters sent, uh warning letter, abatement plan received, uh declared nuisance for more violations and close.

So they're considered a nuisance for one year after their last event.

Um that year is up, the clock is reset.

Um there's they start fresh, so they have to gather three more.

Change in ownership.

So changing nuisance property ownerships are tracked and verified.

Um if one first change, the properties removed from the list and reset, and uh all former records and documentation is kept.

So the point the reason we do this, one, it's a defense in the appeals process that ownership has changed.

Uh two, the purpose of this is to hold the property owner responsible for the activities that occurred while they were owning the property.

So the property owner changed, we're like, okay, you get a fresh start.

You have make sure that you keep this under control, hopefully.

Uh we can't say, make inferences at this time of whether any nuisance violations caused a change in ownership.

Um, but hopefully in the future uh with more data, because this program is still it's I think it just reached a year since the new ordinance was passed, and we had amendments to uh improve it in July of last year.

Uh so it's been about a year since we've been working.

And Mr.

Aston is really a data whiz, so he was able to create this data system and statistics up here.

We have averaged about 160 property 62 properties are reviewed per month.

So those are ones that we see have the actual may meet the qualifications each month.

We have sent 71 warning letters.

Um year to date, so since January.

Or year, or I had to look at that, but I think it's the total uh since we started the program in April.

Uh but we didn't really start the program in earnest till June and July because we had to set it up, and then there was a period of time because we're we shifted CAD uh computer aided dispatch systems uh where there was an inability to look at historical data, and that was fixed, and once that was fixed, we were able to restart the program.

So you may have noticed a period of time where you weren't getting those emails, and that's because we were unable to do the look back period.

There's 68 current nuisance properties.

Uh we number of 233 total violations.

So that would include you know, properties that have three violations, some that have four, five.

We've received 57 abatement plans, so 84% of the properties that we sent warning letters to, we actually received an abatement plan for.

Uh 17 of those uh were later declared a nuisance.

Um there's about we have properties with more than three violations, 21, so 31% of those properties, three have changed ownership, so 4%.

So each property on this list with the warning letters and declare nuisances, um, about average of 3.43 violations.

So most of them, uh, once they get the warning letter, there we do not see any more nuisance activity once they receive the warning letter.

So these are your district and ward statistics that are available to you.

Um each ward averages about four and a half properties that uh that are an issue according to us to our uh data, uh about 13 properties per district violation statistics, as you can see, our greatest amount, and I printed this way too small for me to read on here.

But same noise.

Yeah, what am I gonna do?

Uh but the violations is your unnecessary noise is the largest with 60% following uh disorderly conduct intoxication, which goes with some of the bars in the neighborhood, uh people making a ruckus in the parking lot of these bars uh that are just on the edge of these neighborhoods.

Uh animal nuisances, so you have your barking dogs that really are disturbing.

Um, and then assaults.

Now, one thing I would like to note with the noise.

So we could see what time the calls come in.

And we're we try to be fair here.

So if we hear get a noise complaint in like 1 p.m.

or 3 o'clock, we're like, let's be reasonable here.

But if the noise is like 9 o'clock, 11 o'clock at night, 2 in the morning, we're like, well, that's a big issue.

People are trying to sleep.

And I have young kids, so for me, I would be like anything at 7 o'clock or later, I'm going to lose my mind.

But we we try to be reasonable and consider the circumstances, especially with the noise complaints.

And that is what we have to present to you.

Okay.

Hold on.

Oh, there's another one.

I knew there was another one.

So these are your property types and ownership statistics, which I think you might.

The actual majority of the owners are uh city residents, with 60 percent being residents of city.

Throughout the state 17.

Out of state, you have nine.

I've noticed mostly California and Florida seem to be the out of staters.

Uh out of country, one.

But that's Canada.

Well, there's one property, but the LSCs in Florida, the actual owners in Israel, that's a little more complicated.

Right.

But uh your owner type, so pretty even between uh home, so homeowner just and tenant and rental, it's about even, and then house, LLC owned.

So we made a distinction between uh rental that is a property that is just someone's name and not an LLC versus a rental that is a home, that's LLC.

Um those are pretty even.

Apartment complexes and commercial buildings obviously are also LLCs.

Um that's the stats with that.

So happy to take any questions here.

I want to thank you for the extensive report that you did.

I'm gonna say to my colleagues again, this has been a great issue and great concern for me.

Um from when I co-sponsored the initial piece years ago, and I can't even remember when anymore, it's been so long.

Um, it I would go around with the previous safety director repeatedly about why the nuisance law was not being enforced.

But we became very clear once I had the ability to work with um Director Drumman and um and uh assistant director Shachner, that they did a deep dive at my request and really came forth with some outstanding uh recommendations and suggestions why it wasn't being enforced adequately and properly, and as a result, we made the changes uh in the legislation, and I want to thank my colleagues for supporting that.

I can't remember when we did the final piece, um, the last piece we did, but I want to thank them, all of you who are here at the time for supporting that.

So I have a couple questions that I'm gonna open it up for um questions of my colleagues.

First of all, with regard to the citizens watching this at home who has who have the neighbors from hell next door, um what what is the process that they should undertake?

Who should they call through the chair, uh good great question.

Um obviously if you're having uh situations, if it's a non-emergency, so call the one two three two one six, six two one two three four number for non-emergency uh situations.

Uh way we can get that information into our CAT system.

Uh have an officer respond out again if it's a criminal in nature, they'll put that information to the CAT system.

So that's it, obviously if it's an emergency 911, and then obviously still we have our officers respond.

Okay.

So they can call with if you would classify as a non-emergency uh the 623-1234.

621.

621, excuse me, one, two, three, four.

And then if they're raising hell tearing up the the block at night, uh 911, I'm assuming would be, because that's what what I've been recommending people to call.

Um because I am um sick and tired of a few families or a few individuals making life miserable on the street, and what I have coined in my own neighborhood is the misery index.

I'm prepared uh to make them miserable or that property owner miserable as a result of their tenants or their own activities.

On LLCs, which is a big challenge for for us today, especially on the East side with the proliferation of LLCs coming into our neighborhood and to the viewing public limited liability companies that are buying up our properties.

Um we know we're dealing with the fiduciary agent.

So t explain to us how you're dealing with those.

The according to the ordinance, we do mail it to the tax mailing address, um tax mailing, and if that comes returns as not uh valid, uh which happens sometimes, we then post it to the address.

And there are times we do take the extra step to go to the Secretary of State's website to determine who the um registered agent is then go through there.

Okay, I appreciate that.

I want to make sure that they're not going to get off the hook.

They were fined regardless of whether or not contact them.

Um the information once you de indicated there are some properties that have been declared as nuisances.

On those that are a clearly convenient type stores or any establishment gas station that has a liquor license, are we sharing that data with the law department?

Uh Sergeant Lanton and Detective Brown are part of this.

I forgot the name of the group, but the it involves uh the housing um attorneys and folks men and things like that.

So I mean aware um with the liquors out.

The thing is is that they already have the information of the actual crimes that committed.

So it would have the news declared doesn't really add anything because it's no longer a crime.

It used to be a misdemeanor to be declared a nuisance.

But since it's not a crime, they already have the criminal activity.

I I know they have the criminal activity, but the fact of the matter is if they have they able to determine, because you know I've been in liquor hearings, I've lost count how many over the years, and I've been thank goodness I've been very successful at closing places and or um proventing new establishments to come into my neighborhood.

But um if we can add in a liquor hearing that this has also been declared a nuisance property would give us additional resources in uh fighting or trying to close that establishment, because I use everything, I try to document everything I can when I go into a hearing.

Uh the number of uh calls, police calls to an address, the number of complaints, the letters that I send out, which I submit as evidence.

Uh but anything you can share with our liquor attorneys in the law department um as it pertains to nuisance calls would be very helpful.

That's a very very good point.

We'll make sure that they have that that information.

So I would request respectfully if we can uh uh establish that protocol.

Um and then my last question is this, and I'm opening up for questions.

How many have actually has anyone actually had the lien placed on the property yet?

Yes.

All right, I had this right here to the chair.

Um so this happens in September of every year.

Yes.

So when it occurred, we just started the program.

So keep that in mind.

Uh the amount that was let's see.

I have it in this one.

Why is this image not loading?

Take your time.

I could get that to you uh I just have to Okay.

Because as you're looking, what I've come to the realization with landlords, um, especially absentee landlords, and unfortunately, sometimes with our own residents, they don't pay attention until all of a sudden it costs them something.

Then you get their attention.

So the more times that we can make sure that that nuisance address, if they fail to respond, if they fail to come up with an abatement plan, um, that they get that fine on their property taxes, then it becomes a whole nother ball game.

And that's when you start getting their attention, and then that's especially if they're absentee, uh, that's when they're gonna lay the law down with their tenants that no, you're gonna you're either gonna go or you're gonna you're gonna become um human and respect the neighborhood.

Right.

So it was 5500 have been uh assessed to the county, that was eight properties.

Good.

Since that time, I think two had appeals and were granted.

So we took it off.

And we don't have the full tax numbers from the county, so we can't say what has been paid of that as a when they appeal the fine or the levy, who do they appeal it to?

To the director, director to me, yeah.

We look at it and I have uh the problems abated, and obviously we we grant the appeal.

Okay.

So when people didn't provide an abatement plan and they racked up like twenty thousand dollars in fines and they come to the table as a result of that and then come to an abatement plan, and we're we're willing to work with them on those fines.

Okay, but also I understand that, but I also but you know what why we did this.

Right.

Yep.

Because some of these addresses have driven people out of the neighborhood.

Exactly.

And I can tell you right now there are a hundred and thirty-two thousand four hundred and fifty dollars in open fines.

Okay.

I'm for um I'm for um I play hardball in my neighborhood.

So there's I'm sick of these people who disrespect our neighborhood, our disrespect our neighbors.

And um, so you know, I um I'm for um making it clear you either respect the community, you're pay a fine, you pay the penalty.

So okay, I'm opening up for questions to my honorable colleagues.

I have um let me see a councilman starr first.

Now we'll be real brief just for context.

Um when it comes to the nuisance abatement, um, thank you for this presentation.

I know I think we passed the legislation either in 2024 um to some updates that you talked about being um, but also just from being able to work with um the safety department to be able to address some of these issues, but also just making sure residents understand that uh reporting helps a lot when we're we're trying to deal with nuisance abatement.

We can't say this was just an issue one day and then that's the last time you report it.

We we we like to build other track records so once the safety director and the team has to actually um enforce the law, they can be able to have supporting evidence of what is going on.

So for the viewing public and those um in the city of Cleveland who are dealing with nuisance issues, not just you and your neighbor, don't get along.

We could talk to community relations board when you got that type of issue and the reps to help.

But when you're talking about um just that those gambling violations, or you're talking about the animal nuisance, or you're talking about um noise and sound, things like that you've seen on his presentation.

Um that is something you have to report and make sure make it be aware of it and use the numbers that were provided from a standpoint through the chair.

Um, do we have any marketing materials to be able to um give out to residents to be able to use to make sure they understand the differences or just so they can know what numbers to call, how to do it, um to report issues just so we can make sure um most people understand how to actually get this issue resolved.

Do we have anything from a marketing standpoint through the chair?

Through the chair to councilman stop, we do not, but you bring up a very valid point.

I think our team is available to come out and talk to your community and so forth.

But to your point, we do not, but that's something that we can certainly look into, making sure we have documentation or pamphlets and or that we can give to council members and the general community as well.

That would be helpful.

Yes, and and from that standpoint, I definitely would like for us to be able to tag team that obviously I want that to be um a top thing that we can put out in newsletters, it can be out in different areas where we can also let residents know like, hey, this is how you deal with nuisance properties, and this is how we work together to be able to hold them accountable.

Those are very important.

And to your point uh uh to the chair to Councilman Starr.

Very good point you're bringing up.

The commanders uh in the five districts are aware of this program.

Um they actually reached out to to Jason and Assistant Director, uh Jason Shachner about it and how how to apply it and so forth, and they have officers assigned to the districts that apply that specifically.

So I'm sure that they're conveying that in their community meetings, but to your point again, you're absolutely right.

We need to get some documentation, uh pamphlets and information that can actually hand to you, you can give to your the community members as well.

Thank you.

Yes, and within that uh marketing material just from stuff that we talked through budgeting, please include council logo on that material.

Um I think that is very important to show the partnership, the clock, the collaborations with dealing with things like that.

Other than that, um I've continued to see um different improvements, and I work with uh Commander McGooth as well as interim commander Sean Smith, who I think should be permanent, but that's another conversation.

To the chair to Councilman Starr.

He is uh right now is uh conveyed to uh Councilman uh Polenzik, he is sworn he was sworn in last week.

Come on now, come on now, say that one more time.

He was sworn in as a commander of the fourth district.

Um the CPC has to make their recommendation to the mayor, but he was sworn in last week as the interim uh commander, not acting, but the interim commander.

Okay, thank you.

I think he's um does a fantastic job in fourth district.

He's really really um enforcing the law and also making sure the morale of the officers in that in the fourth district is is you know is moving in the right direction.

So other than that, I just want to say um I appreciate the nuisance abatement presentation.

Um I like the way that we are heading and uh I support this initiative.

Thank you.

Um any other questions?

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I would like to make a request.

Um I appreciate the data you sent over um the breakdown by ward um and uh my ward ward 11.

There are seven properties that have been identified as nuisance properties.

Um of them um I have um I you know I'm the process was initiate initiated you know by me.

Um some of them uh happened before my time on council.

And so um can you provide the status of those properties?

Um including any abatement plan that has been submitted in the in the past.

Um I have started to receive complaints about some of these properties um you know as the weather warms up.

And in particular, related to um the uh stunt stunt driving, drag racing behavior.

There are two properties in particular that are on this list.

Yes, ma'am.

Um good so I'm I'm interested in um you know following up and um through the chair to council or member of Hudson, we will get that information too.

Or any other member who would like that as well.

Yeah, anything else?

I would just uh preface it with the uh abatement plan uh data and storage was a little dirty, uh quick and dirty in the beginning, so it's better now, but we may not have the uh previous abatement plans.

But we'll we'll get what we have to you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I just you know want to know um if I need to start the process over for some of these properties, you know, if if things haven't been addressed previously, I know that there were supposed to be some parking lot um improvements.

Yeah, yep, that's the same thing.

Yes, we don't chair.

We're aware of it, then yes, we'll get to the information.

To help, you know, stop this activity, but I've been hearing from residents that it might be picking back up, which makes me think that the parking lot um improvements maybe didn't happen.

Um I'm also wondering about the process specifically for for bars.

Um there is one bar in my ward that is a constant source of complaints.

I've encouraged residents to be sure to give the specific address of this bar because it's not necessarily activity that's happening on the premises, but it's activity of the bar patrons um on um side streets as they're leaving.

Um so do you have any advice for what I can do um related to that.

You know, I'm it's bar patrons that you know park down the street and you know are doing things like um, yeah.

Uh you know, urinating on the tree lawns and I mean this is this is nuisance activity, but it's not specifically happening on the property premises, but it is related to the operation of the premises.

Through the chair there to uh council member Hudson, uh great point.

Uh a part of it, I think is and I know you have a great relationship with your camera commanders out there uh in the first district.

Yeah, part of the you don't have just seconds.

I have I have first and second.

I thought so, yeah.

So in the not quite sure which bar which location or what district it is, but I know again Maffo Judd in the second district and Woods in the first district.

I know you have good relationship with them, and you're talking about some of the activity taking place away from the bar itself.

Uh please work with them.

I know you work with them, that will help.

If we can tie the activity directly to the bar as part of the nuisance that we're talking about to help you out, I like to talk with you offline about that particular bar so we can do to assist you to stop that situation over there.

I'd appreciate that.

Any advice for the for the chair for for the residents that are calling in uh if they were to it's important for them to mention that it's coming from that bar that addresses that's the address within our search that's get listed because sometimes what the dispatch will do, we'll do the address the person is calling from that creates a problem.

So just say it's this is bars a problem, this person's coming from the bar doing this.

That would be how I would phrase it.

Right with the good if it's possible with a good address too.

Yes, we need to have a proper answer to the question.

Yes, thank you.

Um and then um, you know, related to the out-of-state or out of country owners, uh uh at what point do you um you know do you just simply add it to the tax bill without you know, and just wait for them to get the bill.

We go through the process that is codified.

Um if we don't get return mail as returned on the deliverable, we just treat it as they were served.

And if they don't respond, the fines get certified to the taxes, property taxes.

Okay thank you thank you council lady um question uh now that you really are yes you do I'm not at your we really ramped it up I want to be if there's something within the ordinance that you see needs to be tweaked do not wait to midsummer let me know now what that is because you're you're implementing it now and I appreciate the action that both of you gentlemen have taken because this is something I have felt you as the director knows I felt very passionate about for some time.

I just want to make sure that if you're seeing if there's any hiccups within the the process I we need to be notified okay so uh councilman star just stepped off where he was on the list there.

He just wanted to make sure on on gasoline stations again service stations because most of them have liquor licenses too are you taking the same approach correct?

To the chair all properties.

All properties okay we want to make sure that okay councilman jones Mr.

Chairman I think that we should have a standard higher for our uh commercial properties uh maybe we can look into that um and here's the reason why is um you know we have when we talk about these properties I got a number of properties in my neighborhood first let me just say this I concur with um your um your giving kudos to the director and assistant director Josh right I'm sorry I'm sorry so let me forgive me at least this would a J, right?

There's a couple other things with Jay but go ahead go ahead.

Okay so here here is uh one of the things I'm appreciative because me and and and Mike Polinsick talked about this to we turn blue and turn all kinds of colors and uh flipped across this table a number of times on these kinds of issues because they do impact the city of Cleveland and um and it's a cause for a lot of people moving.

And so I guess what I would like to know here is I I want to work first of all take this to a next level to create a brochure so that I can have that brochure so I would like to so I would like to set up a time with uh is it you Jason or is it to the the director so we can you guys we can work out something where we give some definition to each one of these example violations.

You don't have a page number so they're gonna put some type of draft together for us.

To assure the council that's a little I want to put something together right away because I need to get it out in my neighborhood and and I want to do that.

My um uh new uh commander's face on there and then I'm gonna put my face because I want them to know these are the people they need to talk to as it relates to dealing with these various different nuances uh these violations and um for each one of them what is the law what's the violations a little quick summary of each and I'm gonna have a little pamphlet you know because we want to really make sure our neighbors know and then also who they can call and then what is the process by which they can call to make sure that these homes are are violations because I sat here at this table and I can tell you Mr.

Chairman to the director previously with commanders I've had houses that didn't even make it on the list and they were drug houses they had they had uh fights with their neighbors uh the police were called several times they've had uh squat cars and everything else around them neighbors calling me saying do you know about this issue over here and then you guys don't never tell me anything I have to find out from independent outside sources what's happening in my neighborhood and so I'm gonna tell you Mr.

Chairman I used to have commander Mike McGrath and he'd tell me everything come to my office and have sessions and and then we had Raf Malentino now I have a new commander now and he we have a good communications but again I don't know everything that's going on in my neighborhood haven't had a chance to really have a really update on my neighborhood since I was a rookie councilman with hair on my head.

And so I would like to get back to that and have a closer niche relationship and as well as be able to uh tell you guys where these issues are and then you know make sure that they're documented.

So I really first of all I want to thank you for taking the ordinance and breaking it down and creating this policy and bringing the stats and statistics here because I think that's very important and I look forward uh Mr.

Um and I want to be able to uh sit down uh with you to really fundamentally go over this and really create that piece.

One, and then two, um, who are the main players I need to be talking to to make sure that those properties are a nuisant properties, those properties where I'm getting constant phone calls on, um, is getting to the right people to process that.

Good chair, right?

To ensure we have a team as uh uh assistant director Shachner has uh alluded to before.

We have Detective Jasmine Brown, Sergeant Reginald Lanton, uh Ashton Ian, um, who is uh just really tremendous in what he's doing, the work that he's doing to this uh if you have if you have or any council member have uh uh problem properties, uh what we would need is the exact address.

Um we can look in the CAD system to see what type of calls for service uh, if any, at those particular uh properties and and uh based on that we can uh based on the law to see whether or not they would uh qualify for a nuisance uh criminal nuisance property.

But uh we have a team.

You can get that information to me and I'll get to my team to take a look at that.

All right, and then Mr.

Chairman, you know, I appreciate that.

And I have a gas station and a bar.

Now I've sent videos in.

Um so where it's been tearing up the neighborhood.

So, you know, even though the bars on this side, you know what I'm talking about, and the gas station on this side, I want both of them sighted because I'd already told the owner of the gas station to put no parking signs up, and once he put those no parking signs up for for his customers only, we'll work with him, then that gives us the ability to work with him to have those cars towed.

Uh, and that still has not yet happened.

So he's culpable in the disturbance of our neighborhood because the we're talking about we're not, you know, this uh Jason, you talked earlier about the cars being in the driveway with loud music.

Well, we have these cars, and I don't understand you know why someone would spend such a great amount of money to put these super woofers in their cars and make the cars uh they're so loud that the car is bouncing on the vibration of the sound alone.

And then they have all these speakers in the doors, they open up their doors, they got speakers, they got uh neon lights running up under the boards, neon lights everywhere.

I mean, you can't miss them because they're like we're here, ha ha.

And the noise is so loud.

Um, and we've complained and complained and complained with no relief.

And so um, you know, Mr.

Chairman, I really need help.

I don't want that to happen again this summer uh because this negative impact is is is disruptive to our community, and it's right down the street, Mr.

Chairman, from a hundred million dollar possible development that we're trying to build uh in the Lee Harvard area.

So we really want to quiet that zone down.

So I just wanted to put that on your radar screen, Mr.

Chairman, to the safety director.

That's the right.

And then um ending it in conclusion, uh, Mr.

Chairman.

Um I look forward to engaging you guys as soon as possible.

When can we get together so we can put the piece together?

Through the chair, we can get together, uh we'll look at our calendars and get together as soon as possible.

Right.

I want to try to do this hopefully within the next 30 days.

So the chair, we can do that.

Okay, I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah, if you can uh because we're all putting newsletters together, something that we could put in rate, you know, uh I don't want to say short and sweet, but something that that indicates the what the nuisance law is briefly and how citizens can um file a complaint or turn in a complaint what they should do and maybe system some areas within that um as to what would qualify as a nuisance.

So again, I want to thank uh as we're speaking, my team will is already uh just let us know that they're starting to work on it as we speak.

So again, I want to thank the director and for the assistant director for listening to my pleas and my concerns as it pertains to why the nuisance law was not being enforced in the city.

And um, we work together on this.

That's important because we're all in this together at the end of the day.

We want our neighborhoods to be a better place, quality of life, and in some neighborhoods a quality of life has either disappeared or has diminished substantially, and we got to bring it back.

So again, without any further questioning at the table, I want to thank my colleagues for being here.

I want to thank the director and assistant director for their presentation committee of a public safety committee for Cleveland City Council stands adjourned.

Thank you.

Thank you.