Okay, it is five o'clock, so we'll go ahead and call the Monday, November 17, 2025, Columbia Pre-Council to order.

We have two items on our agenda.

We have energy codes, uh 101.

Uh, and then we have a discussion around our snow and ice removal, which I've been told takes a solid hour, and then we have to save our questions for the end so they can get through it.

So we'll try to start that before six shame.

I know it's a hot topic.

Okay, so I'm gonna kick it over, I assume to Clint.

All right.

Uh yes, thank you.

And we'll try to keep it under an hour, so we have a lot of time to talk about snow and ice removal.

So maybe hand removal too.

Maybe, maybe.

Um, so just to uh provide a little uh backdrop for the conversation tonight.

Um, as you know uh earlier this year, the the city initiated the review of the 2024 uh ICC family of building codes that includes uh one particular code, which is the uh international energy conservation uh code uh in connection with uh the review of that code, our BCCC, which is our building construction codes uh commission, as well as our Columbia Environmental Commission, uh review the environmental codes or the energy uh excuse me, conservation codes.

Uh and uh tonight we will have a resolution on the main agenda uh setting a 90-day period for those to be on display with the clerk.

Uh but working through our sustainability office as well, they uh ask a representative from the Midwest Energy, uh, excuse me, Midwest Energy Efficiency Alliance to come in and speak a little bit about what is in it in the energy code.

I think there's a lot of interest in some of the regulations that will be coming uh before council uh when we do bring those 2024 codes uh forward in the future.

Uh and so uh Zoya with uh with the MEEA is here to kind of speak on that.

So I'm gonna turn it over to her.

She's gonna give a little presentation and uh afterward, I think there'll be time for some some question and comments.

So thank you.

Thanks, Claire.

Do you want to get for the microphone?

Yes, I can do that.

Hi everyone, my name is Oya.

I work for an organization called the Midwest Energy Efficiency Alliance or MIA.

I'm really happy to be here today and talk to you about energy codes.

Um, I'm going to try and keep this under 45 minutes so you all have plenty of time to talk about your snow and ice removal.

And so I can board my flight at 7 p.m.

Um, I'm just gonna go over the agenda a little bit.

Um, first I'm just gonna take us through a little bit of an introduction to MIA, who are we, what do we do, why are we here preaching to you about energy codes, um, talk a little bit about what an energy code is, some of the impacts of advanced energy codes, um, do a brief overview of the code adoption landscape in Missouri, and then I will walk through some comparisons between the last three versions of the energy code so 2018 to 2015 to 2024, and talk a little bit about the cost of compliance and implementation of energy codes.

Sound good?

So MIA is a nonprofit membership-based organization with over 170 members, and we work to advance energy efficiency in 13 states across the Midwest.

We work to educate and advise a diverse range of stakeholders on the benefits to better understand and implement cost-effective energy efficiency strategies that provide economic, environmental, and public health benefits.

We're part of a national network of regional energy efficiency organizations called Rios.

We work through funded partnerships with the USDOE.

So we are the Midwest Rio, there are also Rios in the Southwest, Northeast, Southeast, Northwest, California's doing its own thing.

Um our vision is an achievable pathway for all people and communities in the Midwest to enjoy the economic, environmental, and society societal benefits of energy efficiency and the larger clean energy economy.

I keep forgetting about this quicker.

So what is an energy code?

Um, an energy code is basically the minimum standards that dictate energy efficiency requirements for residential and commercial buildings.

They serve as the floor of requirements, so they kind of designate the worst building that can legally be built.

Um they are health and safety codes, just like any other building code, like plumbing or mechanical or electric.

Um, and they focus on the inward environment.

So thermal comfort, natural artificial money, and conservation.

Codes are developed nationally by two main organizations the International Code Council, who develops the International Energy Conservation Code or the IECC, and ASHRAID, which develops ASHRAY 90.1 standard, which creates additional commercial standards.

These codes are updated every three years, but they're offset by two years.

So Astray comes out first, and then they publish, they publish commercial standards, and then the IECC comes out two years later and references the commercial standards in Astray.

So they are not competitors, they work together.

Some places will also adopt and name the International Residential Code or the IRC, or the International Building Code or IPC for commercial standards.

The IECC chapter 11.

Sorry.

Okay.

The International Residential Code, Chapter 11 references the standards in the residential IECC, and chapter 13 in the International Building Code references the energy efficiency standards in the IECC.

So the corresponding IRC and IBCs to the IECC generally have the same energy efficiency requirements.

That means that Ashway 90.1 standard and the IECC are still the most commonly adopted codes.

So national model codes are used as the basis for the energy code by the authority having jurisdiction, which can be a state, county, or municipality.

Model energy codes can be amended, but there is a significant benefit to adopting a full and amended code in terms of energy savings and cost effectiveness.

As far as adoption, there are two main ways that places will adopt an energy code.

Some home rule states actually do have a statewide energy code that's optional.

The only state in the Midwest that does that though is North Dakota.

Regardless of who adopts the code, the code is always enforced at a jurisdictional level through code officials.

So energy codes serve as the minimum requirements for the building envelope, which includes insulation, windows, and air ceilings.

They also cover mechanical equipment and lighting.

So unlike most other codes, the energy code directly impacts the work of many disparate building traits and systems, including the envelope, plumbing, HVAC, electric, moisture management, concrete, and caulking.

The energy code uses the whole house approach.

This means that you should not take the policy as parts as an amendment to one component of the energy code, like insulation levels, will probably mean that you end up having to change the sizing of the HVAC, and it just kind of goes off the holding.

The energy code uses the scientific principles of the laws of thermodynamics.

The first rule is that energy in essence heat only travels in one direction, hot to cold.

The energy code is designed around the science of controlling heat transfer in buildings.

So this law guides the recommendations made by the creators of the energy code.

To visualize the mitigation process, we note that insulation is designed to slow the transfer of heat through walls, floors, and ceilings.

And the code uses math and science to develop the best thermal values for our values, which measures an insulation insulation's effectiveness for each climate zone.

So in essence, thermal values are values Alaska than R4.

So even though these seem like individual components as a list on paper, the energy code should be taken as a whole.

Like I mentioned before, a reduction in value in one measure can negatively impact another component of the building.

Requiring less insulation than the published code, for example, means that each vacuum needs to be resized accordingly to compensate for this amendment.

This doesn't mean that it's bad to amend the energy code, it just means that you maximize the benefits of the energy by adopting a full unamended package.

So now we're gonna zoom out a bit and see why building codes, energy codes are important and the implications they have.

Buildings consume about 40% of total energy use in the US, um, oftentimes a larger percentage in major cities.

For example, where I live in Chicago, buildings make up about 60% of our energy use.

So energy codes can offer large energy energy savings, and they reduce the energy use for the lifetime of a building, which can be from 50 to well over 100 years, and cumulative savings continue to be seen year after year.

The most cost-effective time to implement code measures is during initial construction rather than having to retrofit or retro condition the billA cost savings tend to be one of the most appealing parts of energy codes for many people, building owners, operators, and tenants see lower utility bills and lower maintenance and replacement expenses when they use efficient appliances, and in that sense, codes do more for people and businesses while continuing to be responsible with our resources.

Energy codes really are health and safety codes because of the health and resilience benefits that they provide, including better indoor air quality and less demand on the electrical grid, making the system more reliable for longer periods of time in the case of an emergency or extreme weather event like today.

Regulations for moisture and the building envelope can be helpful precautions by reducing the risk of mold exposure and stronger codes, make buildings more resilient and promote community self-sufficiency.

Implementing energy codes can also see benefits on the business and workforce side side by guaranteeing a minimum level of efficiency for all new buildings within the jurisdiction.

They sort of level the playing field for market competition and provide opportunities to learn and utilize new and construction techniques, giving the industry a let up on competition.

So there really is a real human health benefit to energy retrofits and energy efficient buildings.

We have seen this recently in a study commissioned by the Metropolitan Energy Center in Kansas City back in 2023.

This study found a direct correlation between home weatherization, which generally includes added insulation, ear see air sealing and HVAC ductwork ceiling, and a drop, a drop in pediatric asthma symptoms and hospitalizations associated with pediatric asthma.

In fact, they found a 34% difference in asthma frequency and intensity between homes between children in homes that had been weatherized versus the control group.

Can you move the microphone a little bit closer to you?

Sorry, here sometimes not looking at it.

Okay, thanks.

So how do these codes affect the microphone?

Oh my gosh.

Right after you said that too.

Um thank you for taking questions.

How do these codes affect already built housing?

And does that depend on, I guess, the property owners and the use, whether it's rental or principal owners.

Energy codes do primarily address new construction.

Like I mentioned, they can apply to these organizations.

And setting goals for progressive energy reduction in a building.

How did they get the statistic on across all eras on the previous slide?

The benefits of the energy, the energy weatherization.

The weatherization was performed on all ages of homes, so like a home could have been 100 years old or 10 years old, still did the weatherization, and they saw benefits of this all these are deliveries.

Thanks for explaining that.

As I mentioned before, um energy efficiency can also make buildings more resilient to extreme weather.

This has been recognized at the federal level.

Strengthening our nationwide capability for superior building performance and driving public action on building codes.

And it is continuing through this next fiscal year.

And then we have the commercial landscape, which is pretty similar.

In general, commercial commercial adoptions tend to be truer to the model energy code because we see fewer weakening amendments on commercial energy codes.

However, as far as all these jurisdictions, we have not seen any significant weakening amendments on the residential energy code.

From 2015 to 2018, the efficient lighting requirement was increased to 90%, meaning that 90% of all light fixtures installed in a building needed to be classified as high efficacy.

Between 2020 2018 and 2021, the efficient lighting requirement was increased to 100%.

The ERI pathway was strengthened again, and notably the 2021 added section R408, which requires additional energy efficiency credits for the prescriptive and performance pathways.

I'll be talking a little bit more about these compliance pathways in the coming slides.

So if you're like, what are you talking about?

We're getting there.

Those R408 additional energy efficiency requirements were kept for the prescriptive compliance pathway but removed from the performance pathway, making the performance pathway more flexible and a little less expensive to implement.

And the energy rating index values for the DRI pathway were adjusted to be different to account for on-site and off-site power production.

And for reference city, right now it is operating on the 2018 suite of codes.

Also, just overall, between the 2015 and the 2024, there were increases in the efficiency of envelope requirements.

And each new model code has been deemed cost effective by the US Department of Energy.

So when I talk about the performance pathway and the prescriptive pathway, I'm talking about the different options that there are to comply with the energy code and meet the requirements.

The prescriptive pathway is more of a checklist of requirements.

You kind of just go down the list and like, hey, I'm at this insulation value and I have 100% efficient lighting.

And in the 2021 and the 2024, the prescriptive pathway includes section R408, which requires you to meet a certain number of credits.

So you can kind of see in this chart there's a list of measures that are tied to a certain credit value.

I believe in the 2024 IECC, you're required to meet a minimum of 10 of these credits, but you can kind of pick and choose which ones we use to get there.

It's based on an annual energy cost, so the annual energy cost of the proposed design needs to be less than or equal to the annual energy cost of the standard reference design, which is basically a hypothetical model home.

Between 2021 and 2024, it became a little more flexible because those R408 additional energy efficiency credit requirements were removed from the performance pathway.

It's a little less expensive and more flexible to implement, so it is a little more popular with builders.

I believe you've only issued one prescriptive permit in Colombia for the 2018.

So in general, the performance pathway tends to be more popular.

So with the inclusion of several alternative compliance pathways, the 2021 IECC and the 2024 IECC offer project level flexibility, allowing builders to take different pathways for the same goals.

So for example, there are three compliance build compliance pathways for residential buildings in the 2021 IECC and two compliance pathways for commercial buildings, as well as an option to comply with the standards of Ash Ray 9 of Ashrady Standard 90.1 2019 instead of complying with the IECC.

These additional options generally were supported by builders during the development of these codes since they do help ease the cost of construction.

And generally of all the building codes, the IECC is the only one that provides a payback to the homeowner via energy and utility cost savings.

So these are just kind of putting some numbers to how much it adds to the cost of construction to build to a new code.

So jumping, these are really also simplified numbers.

They refer only to the cost of building a single family residential building.

But I do have the resource that these numbers came from, so I'm happy to share that in the follow-up materials.

But to build from the 2009 and jump all the way to the 2021 IECC, it adds about 7200 to the cost of construction.

And then from 2021 to 2024, obviously it's smaller jumps, so it's quite a bit cheaper, adding about two 300 to the cost of construction.

Yeah, yeah, Christian.

So we're using 2018.

I suppose that same thing holds from 2018 to 21 and 21 to 24 in that regard.

So these numbers are uh are we comparing these to these 2009 numbers, these 2024 numbers that we're comparing here.

But that I mean are we comparing apples to apples on terms of cost in 2009 would be uh uh the average would have been 72.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a difference in what materials cost now versus what they cost in 2009, for instance.

So I'm wondering if this is uh is comparative in terms of 2009 to 2024.

I believe it does account for the increased cost of materials.

Well, but in general, this kind of just covers the cost of um standards, and it does hold that to jump from the 2018 to the 2024, it's a larger incremental cost, especially because 2024 adds that those additional energy efficiency credits.

Um, so that prescriptive pathway becomes a bit more expensive.

Um also those are national averages in Missouri going from the 2021 to the 2024 is actually a reduction in incremental cost, and then as you can see, it can be between 3,000 and 4200 ish to build from the 2018 to 2024.

Um that range covers gas and electric homes.

Um is that uh positive?

So it has increased 3,000 or is that a decrease 3,000?

The cost to build to the new code increases 30,000.

Thank you.

And can I clarify um the prescriptive pathway?

That was um that was the one that we've under our current codes have only seen one like that's not the most popular way.

So does that mean because you say right there that uh the addition to those requirements for the prescriptive pathway are in part wide up higher cost?

So is it a three to four thousand potential additional increase for regardless of which pathway you take?

It's for the prescriptive path.

Um the cost to build to the performance pathway varies a lot more just because it is a choose your own adventure and more trade-offs.

So I I don't have a concrete number for the performance pathway.

Okay.

Do you have any do you have any data on the experience of other users that have taken the performance pathway?

Um, can we look at individual data points and get a perspective?

Is that even helpful?

I'm sure it exists.

Um, it probably is in one of the reports that I referenced for this presentation, so I'm happy to share that all of materials as well.

Yeah, that would be great.

Thanks.

So I don't want to raise this.

Um, just to kind of dive into more of what makes the energy code cost effective.

Um we have seen some inflated estimates on what it costs specifically to build to the 2021 residential IECC.

Um, we have seen this in Kansas City, we have seen this in Minnesota and Missouri with their updates to the 2021 and 2024 IECC.

Um, but we have seen claims that it costs at least $32,000 to build to the 2021 IECC.

Yes, it can cost more to update your code.

Um, this $32,000 estimate isn't really a complete picture.

Um, it generally only accounts for the prescriptive pathway, and as I've been mentioning, there are two other performance, there are two other compliance pathways in the 2021 and the 2024 that offer more flexibility and more potential cost savings.

So, as an example, under the performance pathway, a builder can construct a tighter building envelope.

Um, in essence, one that causes less leakage, and then trade off that efficiency so that additional insulation in the walls and the loop isn't required.

Um that number often includes double counted measures, um as a double wall home, which we have seen cited towards that cost.

The 2021 IECC does not require a double wall.

Um, and it also accounts for double counted measures.

So they'll go through and add up measures that count towards both the prescription prescriptive and the performance pathway.

All of that to say it shouldn't cost $32,000 to build to a new code because of the flexibility offered by the performance and BRI pathways.

And the 2024 is even more flexible and is generally more popular in the industry because it doesn't have those additional energy efficiency requirements from Section R408.

This is probably the biggest factory to the rise in construction costs, um, the cost per square foot to build areas by location, independent of energy code requirements, and the size of the home as a factor generally the size of single family homes has increased over time.

And like I've said, the IECC is the only one that provides a payback to the homeowner.

Does evolution in technology have an impact on the cost as well?

I mean, for instance, energy efficiency gliding.

I think has reduced in cost over time.

Uh and I don't know about other elements, but that I assume that that's part of the reason that it that factors into this as well.

Is that right?

Sorry, can you well I think we're we're comparing, I'm trying to compare what was to what is and to build to this to this standard in 2018 might be different than it is now because of change because of changes in technology that it reduced the cost of some elements of it.

Is that accurate or not?

Yes, I would say so.

Okay.

Um and finally, just to kind of tie it back together and discuss some of the long-term benefits of the energy codes, these benefits can reach a variety of entities, including homeowners and occupants who enjoy lower utility bills and more comfortable and resilient homes, state and local governments that can achieve that um energy codes can help them achieve community-wide reductions in both energy demand and greenhouse gas emissions.

Should they have a goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions?

Um these benefits also reach builders and developers who can receive recognition and um more advanced professional development for construct constructing properties that represent the latest technology set standards and utilities which can attribute savings to energy efficiency programs.

Um I did mention this previously, but the long-term benefits of energy codes tend to outweigh the one-time cost.

They provide a payback over the lifetime of the building, and they contribute to improved public health, economic growth, decreased demand on the grid, and more resilient buildings.

And yeah, they really are an investment towards the future.

And that's that's me, which will be that is my base.

All right, questions for Doria or for staff on this.

Okay.

Oh, okay.

I would just really quick before we get into our questions.

Do you want to you mentioned at the very beginning that the codes we have a resolution on this evening about um having them on file like the clerk's office, the required 90-day hold.

Will you walk through a little bit for council, especially those that are newer, um, what the process is for how Columbia reviews our building codes and the role of you know the building construction codes commission, and then how is that recommendations then come to us?

Yeah, no, sure.

Um, so typically uh I think is as okay.

It stated, um, so every three years, uh, you know, this this international team will get together and basically produce a new set of building codes.

Uh so the most recent ones 2024.

And so I think it was beginning of 2020 or end of 2023.

Um, our standing building construction codes commission.

Uh, you know, they were aware that the new codes had been published and were available, and so they sent a uh a report to the council requesting permission uh in essence to begin that review period.

So it wasn't to approve anything, it's for them to actually uh begin reviewing through that uh through all the different codes.

And so as she'd stated there, there's residential codes, there's commercial codes, plumbing codes, electrical codes, mechanical codes.

So there's a whole suite of different codes.

And so the building construction codes commission also has many subcommittees that are a little more focused on those particular aspects of individualized codes.

And that's also where our environmental commission came in too.

And so they spent, I think approximately six months or so, I think, reviewing six to eight months, four to six months.

They went through essentially all the significant changes from the 2018, which is what we have right now, to that 2024 code.

And they put together basically a set of amendments as well.

And so it's very common for uh municipalities to offer what we call local amendments that kind of tailor it uh specifically to some of the nuances within a community.

So uh in addition to the model codes, which is the entire code, we'll have uh you know a few select uh amendments that will come forward with uh with the proposal as well that will be a little bit different than the international code.

So we adopt that in addition to to the model codes that change a few of the things in there.

Uh and so typically the process uh to have the 90-day review period would have been a little bit earlier, but there was a delay in actually having physical codes.

Uh and actually it's kind of worked out, I think, in our favor to delay that period because we have uh the review completed and we're kind of taking it uh and kind of piggybacking uh on top of it, uh more of an outreach at this point.

So uh talking with staff, we feel like with some of the nuance, I think, with this building code and some of the concerns with the costs, it's it's gonna be a good idea to kind of have a little bit more of a public facing side with this code adoption, which isn't something really that's been done in the past with building codes, it's usually a little more straightforward process.

Um, you know, the BCC reviews it, sends it to council, uh, it's approved, it's not approved.

And just a little reference, they did review the 2021 codes, and those did come to council uh and they they at that time decided not to adopt them.

I think there were concerns with the costs within those 2021 codes as well.

Um, so uh we currently have, I think, what the recommended code adoption would be, and that's what's on file with the clerk's office.

We'll also be putting that on the Be Heard site.

Uh, and and they're you know, fairly technical in scope.

And so we do want to make sure that anyone that has specific technical questions can answer that or ask that through the B HERD site.

They can also call our offices.

We don't you don't have to go through the B Herd site, but it's helpful to get it through B Heard.

Uh and we'll take some of those that are more common questions too, and we'll try to answer them on there and post those so there's a little bit more of a reference for people coming that if they have some of those same questions, they can just read through those frequently asked questions and get those those questions answered.

Um, and so after that 90-day period is completed, then uh those codes could come before council for adoption.

Uh, I don't want to set a particular timetable, I think for that adoption right now.

We want to go through the 90-day period uh and really, you know, make sure we're we're getting a breadth of of I think voices uh from the community and our stakeholders on what their uh kind of viewpoints are on the impacts of those codes.

Uh we definitely want to reach out, I think, to to some of our ones that I think people would take uh you know would know that are have particular interest in that, you know, our our home builders groups, our commissioner, uh you know, our engineering teams, uh, our economic development teams.

So we we want to hear from all those because I think you know, the real uh important question here obviously is that is if there is an increased cost in construction with the adoption of some of these codes, uh, is that cost benefit, you know, beneficial uh as a community?

Do we think that's the way we want to go?

And so we want to make sure we're getting all the voices together, um, having all the facts together too, and then uh we'll bring that back before council.

I think we'll have probably a period of time where we're gonna review a lot of the feedback we got from BeHerd and from the community.

So I wouldn't necessarily anticipate having a report or recommendation, right?

It you know, in April or March.

Um, but at some point we'll bring back, I think, a recommendation to council on the potential adoption of those codes.

So that's that's kind of the maybe the medium-linked version of I think what our path forward here would be.

Thank you.

Any questions for staff before we can talk about snow?

Yeah, I'll go to Valerie and then done.

I did.

I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how we step new applicants for um building permits through these codes and the different pathways.

And how what changes about that procedure when we have a significant code change?

Sure.

And that's it's funny.

We actually just had that conversation uh with uh with our my team uh this afternoon, uh knowing that that is something that's going to be very important going forward.

And I don't want to go uh too far and saying exactly how we're going to address that, but I say typically um, you know, prior to the adoption of code, if you have a building application into the offices, then you you would be uh considered to have submitted that before the adoption of that new code.

So I I don't want to commit ourselves anything, but that's typically how it's been handled in the past, so I expect something of that uh nature um to be uh in place before we get too much further down the line.

I think I think that'd be something we'll probably start putting out in the B HERT side as far as what what builders and and what the construction community can expect uh when those adoption uh of the of the 24 codes, if we get to that point, uh what that's gonna look like as far as uh what code they need to design for projects too.

Do we have education opportunities for the public after it's in implementation?

Uh yeah, I think we're open to doing whatever is needed.

Um we're like I said, we we have the site now.

We're gonna have a public forum too in December.

We don't have a date exactly set right now, but we wanted to have uh an opportunity to to you know sit with people uh in person and have those questions uh ask and we can field those in real time.

Uh if we need to have more of those, we can absolutely do that.

And if we need to do some after an adoption and before they they go into effect, we can we can absolutely do that too.

And our I'm I'm sure our team and I have our our building regulation supervisor and our engineering manager from our building and site development team here.

Uh I'm sure they're going to make sure that we have a good plan in place to make sure that that all builders in the construction community know uh what's what's coming down the down the pipe for this.

Done.

Yeah, a couple things that I would like to see on the B herd as you're building this out.

Um I know you mentioned technical aspects of it.

Um as much as you can, maybe kind of dub it down for those of us that aren't experts in in some of this so that we can all maybe kind of get a better grasp on it.

Um, I know there's flexibility and it's difficult to determine additional costs with performance versus prescriptive, but on the performance side, I would really like to see as best you can.

This is what it's the additional cost.

I know over as you pointed out, over a 30-year lifespan or over 30-year mortgage, significant savings to the homeowner.

Anecdotally, I know Brian could probably Brian Tootie could probably answer this question better, but I think it's very unusual for somebody to build a house and stay in it for 30 years.

Okay, so um, and as we and the reason I'm asking about costs is we're part of our discussion is housing and affordable affordable housing.

And you know, if this is great, but if we make that initial barrier, it's just gonna be making that initial hurdle, not you know, to get into uh more difficult.

So we need to evaluate that.

I I think we need to have that information out there anyway, so that we can evaluate it, you know, as to uh as we move forward again.

I I think it's great.

I would you know took advantage of the city's program several years ago, new furnace, new you know, attic insulation, the whole bit.

Um yeah, it made a difference once I figured out to use gas heat instead of heat bump, but that's another story.

Um so yes, I you know I'm all for it.

Um, but again, if we're talking about affordable housing and and building affordable housing, uh let's not make it again make that initial hurdle insurmountable for many people.

Yeah, absolutely, and just kind of address I think the first thing you said.

So we'll we'll I I envision there being kind of two audiences for that building code.

So we probably will have a little more technical side to it because we do want to answer those specific questions, but we may have for the right, we'll probably have you know less technical questions and answers as well.

So I think there'll be a little bit on there for anyone who's interested in kind of learning or asking questions about the building code.

And oh yeah, and then I'm gonna move us along in about five minutes.

I was just wondering if this presentation will be made available to us um after tonight.

Yes, yeah, awesome.

And maybe I'll put it on the BERT site.

Um, can I clarify for you, Zoya?

Um, on the one that had the savings um quote of the estimated savings, that was over 30 years, correct?

So the 2500 was over 30 years, 15,000 if we take out the cost to it.

So that would be like a 500 a year savings for that.

I just want to make sure I was reading that correct.

About okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

And and I just want to say too, I think she had some numbers on on the expected increase in building costs from from what we will be doing, which is 2018 to 2024.

Um, you know, we've done some, I think, real basic, I think, calculations here internally, nothing official, and I think we came in a little higher than that.

So I just want to recognize I think there are different perspectives on what that cost will be.

Um, so I don't want to set necessarily the expectation of one number.

Uh, and I think that's part of this conversation of working with our groups to say, you know, what what what standards do we need to look at to really come to those costs?

I think that would be very useful and appreciate because we definitely are hearing the concerns to Don's point about affordable housing and making sure that the payoff is there for people.

So okay.

Anything else?

No, we'll appreciate.

I hope you can make your flight.

Thanks for coming down to Chicago.

We have a direct flight to Chicago, multiple opportunities for you.

If you can go, thank you.

Great.

Thank you guys so much.

Yeah, um, my email is up here, and um Glenn and Eric will share these slides.

So if you have any questions about Mia or what we're working doing with codes, or just want to talk about codes, feel free to reach out to me.

I'm happy to have thank you.

So I think something that would be useful to know for you to be thinking about is as you guys are comparing um places that have locally adapted versus statewide, what that sort of performance and and what what is what is more beneficial to communities is a statewide or to have these sort of flexible building, that'd be good to know.

Thank you.

All right.

Richard Stone and Shane Creek, come on down.

Oh, and Lee, sorry, Lee Lee White.

All right, oh yeah, so Shane would have like 64 slides that he says they're gonna go through fast.

But I'm gonna have us save our questions till the end, so make sure you note down, and there are page numbers or slide numbers on there, so you should be able to reference back.

So shake.

Um good evening.

Um Jane Creed, director of public works, Richard Stone, the engineering operations manager is with me tonight.

Um biggest reason to do that is I want to make sure we come out of this with you all having a good understanding of how we handle winter weather.

Um questions about how we do it.

Why would we hold on, Shane?

I noticed this with this person earlier, and I was like, is she just the client?

It didn't seem to make any difference for that.

Oh my gosh.

That's amazing.

Well, let's have the person repeat her performance.

Or not.

So anyway, the major reason I want to hold questions till the end is I want you all to come out of here with how we handle winter weather right now.

Um we can have all kinds of conversations about doing it in a different way, but the um that probably won't change how we handle handle it this year.

The resources that I have at my disposal right now are probably gonna be that way through the winter.

We probably couldn't change that fast.

So I want to make sure you come out of here with a good understanding of that, and then when we get into questions, we can talk about all kinds of different stuff, but I think that's the best way to handle that.

So um, I will turn it over to Richard Stone, again, who's the engineering operations manager.

Yeah, all right.

We'll see here.

Yes, thank you.

Um so I'm the engineering operations manager, so pretty much street division uh center me.

Um kind of give you an idea of information is not setting changes over time.

We made a pretty aggressive overhaul in 2012.

Um, been changed around the edges since then.

Uh it's a methodical approach to try to do the best we can with the resources that we have to be as more as efficient as possible.

High level perspective, uh, what we're trying to do is basically our home base is um people achieving safe travel, right?

So the best way to get people around town because we don't do our job basically in town shut down.

So we do not control Mother Nature or other agencies.

Um within the city, Stadium, Grindstone, Providence, Business Loop, those are roadways maintained by MODA.

We do have conversations with them about their staffing and what they're doing, but they're they're responsible for those roadways.

Our plows typically are down if we're on their roadways, unless we know for a reason that we shouldn't have our plow down.

Like we can kind of spot when they've treated a roadway.

We don't want to push that salt off there.

So if you see a truck that's driving around with a plow up on a road with it, still got some some level of snow on it, it's because we understand that that hasn't just been treated.

Um so we kind of between all of the agencies we work together.

We do on some of the outskirts, we'll take over some of the county roadways, and then they'll take over ours, and anything to do with maintenance, the maintenance agreement or roadway maintenance, it's just how we can best efficiently train or uh do our jobs.

Um we do control our resources, our planning and uh I talk pretty loud, so hopefully that works.

So uh we can react to what's happening.

So try it again.

No, I think it must be a battery thing.

This one goes enough.

What about we have more okay?

Um so we have a hierarchy because we can't be everywhere all at once.

We have a hierarchy of first, second, third priority streets, and then all the other streets of worth in town.

So uh that's the approach that we've taken, methodical pattern.

So uh equipment and resources are built over time.

Uh so we built this over decade plus with the resources we have to do the most efficient job that we possibly can.

Uh any weather weather response for any agency is typically um when you're changing things, you're normally talking about that in May, June, July, uh trying to make those adjustments for the future years.

Uh 100 degrees is a good time to be talking about snow for me.

Um information uh is on our website, uh WW.cobo snow.com.

And then that takes you to a website that's got basically all of what we do on that as a map, and we'll get into that a little bit later.

Uh internally, we treat all winter weather events as a disaster because that's what they are.

Um, and the reason why we do that is so that everybody can understand what's going on internally within the city when we're talking to each other about what's happening.

Uh the incident command system uh was developed by um was generally developed by firefightering uh in California in the 70s.

Uh several firefighters got killed.

What they found out was communication was the main reason for that, uh lack of communication.

So uh over time that that emergency response uh process has been developed.

It's called national uh incident management system, uh, incident command structure, incident command system.

That's what we utilize so that mostly uh the most important thing is that joint communication knows what we're doing, who to contact, how how things are happening, and then I'm sending it out internally to people so that they know what's going on.

Uh it's updated every 12 hours a chip change, or if there's a major change change that's happening to kind of give you an idea of what the ICS looks like.

This is ICS information, so you have a map, and then you'll have you know what our planned activities are.

Next page is gonna have some some detail about what has happened, uh, what we're planning on doing, uh, another page of information about contacts, um, and then our resources that we're applying to the event.

So very methodical approach.

Um changes for everyone.

So you ever hear me better the word typical, I probably won't, but if I do, I mean often.

So there is no typical civil world when it comes to winter weather.

So uh to kind of give you an idea.

We we have information back.

Uh I had information from 2012 and 13 as well, but but we have basically if you want to know about what happened across any winter weather event or any winter weather season, we have all that information.

So uh generally about 10 to 12 events can be down to four each year, each winter season to kind of give you an idea, uh, but it can be 25 too.

But it can be 25 too.

So city currently maintains uh 1465 lane miles.

Uh so lane mile is 12 foot wide, uh, one mile long.

So we maintain 1465 lane miles within the city, so basically 12-foot strip of pavement from here to Miami, Florida.

That's what we're responsible for maintaining.

Um country can't be everywhere, this first second, third priority systems in place.

Um we have 691 lane miles, and we have one salt dome, it's located off of uh Big Bear, which is just north of on the north side of the interstate uh on the east side of uh Brangeline Road.

So one 5,000 tons of priority routes are are generally continuous operations, and the reason for that, um, and we'll get into it a little bit is uh to make sure that we have a bare wheel pad at a minimum at all times that can get overwhelmed depending on the rate of snow, typically about one inch per hour is enough to overwhelm the pavement depending on temperatures, could be a quarter inch is enough to overwhelm the pavement if you have really cold temperatures looking at that.

But the idea was to create a buffer zone around all the uh city so that there is some sort of continuous route within, and this has fluctuated over time, and we've been able to reduce it down to about a thousand feet.

That doesn't mean that every residence is within a thousand feet.

I think eight hundred feet is pretty good target to eventually get to.

Um but we add subdivisions, so we have to add priority routes.

We're trying to keep that you know about two blocks away, so somebody could park on a street about two blocks away if they need to get out, right?

Um third priorities allow for parking, first second and first and seconds do not allow for parking with over two inches of snow.

Uh we have 14 sandoms, uh, three of those are basically on life support, uh, they're just barely operational, but our fleet is keeping them around.

Uh we have deferred equipment replacement for about 10 years, it's been pretty low.

However, council um and and city management uh increased our our our speed of our replacement for for fleet, which is gonna make a lot of difference.

But this the fleet that we do have two years ago made a big investment.

Uh, this year also made a big investment, and hopefully we'll continue to do that to update our fleet because if they're in the shop getting fixed, they're not out there on the road.

So uh we do have uh 12 one-tons that that do help too, uh, and five class fives, which is a bigger vehicle other than a one-ton that doesn't require a CDL operator, so it's an attempt to allow for a little more response without CEL operators.

Um, they haven't worked out as good as we'd like to, so we're not adding any of those, but we're gonna keep those in the fleet, allow them to go out.

We do have a different type of it, it's basically it's a little bit smaller than that, but a little bit bigger than a one-ton that we're gonna get this year to sort of test that out as well.

Um, we do have four tandems in one single axle that should be delivered yet this winter.

Um two of those should be delivered by the end of November, and then the other three maybe by the end of January or in February to give you an idea, and it costs about 280,000 dollars to 300,000 dollars for a fully upfitted dump truck with all the snow equipment, and it takes about a year to a year and a half, depending on supply chain stuff to get one.

So when you order it, it's a year away at the minimum, although some of that is improved.

Uh we have about eight to 30 drivers per shift.

Um street division itself has 45 FTEs or full-time equipment employees, 45.

Uh we have four vacancies right now.

Um, so um that means that there's less than 20 operators out there, we just use street division um answering the call.

Uh that means that we borrow resources from other departments and city manager and management is you know constantly making sure that everybody understands it's pretty important if you don't have the if you're not having to answer the call to your other duties, then we want you on still snow duty, and we generally have about five to 15 people that fit that in that that category on a regular basis.

So we we normally will have typical it's a bad word for me, but but somewhere around 24 to 28 operators that are out there, plus some other help.

So eight to twelve inches of snow, we're getting into territories that are not normal for sure.

Uh, and then we get into more of a mode of of having conversations as we're approaching that.

Hey, this is what we're looking at.

Almost always really depends on what the temperature is going to be on the backside.

Temperatures are really low, then we need a lot more people to be hitting that thing as fast as we can.

Most communities target about 20 to 35 lane miles per operator.

And the reason for that is generally the best national research has shown the best operating speed for snow plowing is about 24 miles an hour.

So some agencies will push it up to a little higher lane mile per operator if they've got you know wide open places.

But when you're getting into tire corners quarters, you have to decrease that.

So if we just had street division, um we're about 35 lane miles per operator.

Um with the other resources we get, we're about 25.

So we're right there where other communities are with our first, second, third priority indications.

So less than four inches of snow.

Um we we go curve to curb, continuous operation with tow vehicles off of the uh first and second priority routes.

We do that with social media, and you can sign up to be notified that you that you're gonna get towed.

Um typically, yeah, typically uh for first and seconds, that first event when we know we're gonna get pretty close to that.

We'll we'll be putting out flyers on people's cars if they're parking in places because the the ideal is to never tow a car, have them move voluntarily because towing them is really problematic.

I got resources that are going to that.

I don't ever tow anybody, I just want you to.

Um, so what we're trying to get to is is something like this um 24 36 hours after the end of the event, uh, and we hit that most of the time.

Again, weather or uh temperatures really matter.

Um neighborhoods, so neighborhood streets, we still address those during normal business operations or normal business hours, so 7 to 3 30.

Um we'll run what's called run calls.

If we think that we're in good shape as far as passable conditions, people are still saying they can't get out of their neighborhoods, we'll go down there and address that.

Uh typically, again, typically 48 hours or less is is generally the end of continuous operations.

So four inches greater than snow.

Um we we do first, second, thirds, curvature, continuous operations, and again, tow those vehicles off of uh neighborhood route or off of those routes, um and we'll reach into those neighborhoods on the thirds or third priorities.

Um, sometimes we'll that's we'll address people only to first priorities, most of the time we'll go first and seconds at the same time, they can handle those two, um, and then we'll reach about every four hours or so or eight hours into the neighborhoods on the thirds.

Um all streets are passed are our plowed and treated to a passable condition.

So a passable condition was was something that we came up with and we've developed over time, passable by a front-wheel drive vehicle at slow speeds utilizing reasonable winter weather driving.

Um, and that's basically making sure we're we're addressing the conditions that are out there, but being reasonable with the resources that we're putting to bear.

Um, to give you an idea of what some of this can look like, um, it can be gray to grade degree, or it could be a little like this depending on temperatures.

So uh all of these streets are passable conditions.

The one on the bottom, I would say is is marginally passable.

Uh so that's as that's as bad as we would want to see any street B after we're done with our operations.

Um the reason why uh we we do this is uh salt is ineffective at less than 15 degrees, so it rock salt is so once you get below 15 degrees with no sign the pavement temperatures aren't coming up.

Um you can apply a lot more salt to it and it's still gonna stay there.

So we're trying to get that the ability for people to get around.

If you have a rear-world drive vehicle, you may not get around as well.

Uh kind of give you an idea.

Um, these two photos were taking about four hours apart.

Uh so the first one was 10 degrees, uh, three degrees overnight.

Um, and and it was about 10 degrees air temperature right at the beginning of the morning.

So it was a it was coming up.

However, um it just it continued to climb throughout the day at the end of the day, it was about 30 four degrees, so all the time it was climbing, sun was shining, pavement temperatures rose.

So all the time it was climbing, sun was shining, pavement temperatures rose.

Uh, the salt that is on on that street, so the one on the left, uh, the salt that is on that street started working, right?

So these two streets were uh a little ways away from each other, but they're only about four hours apart.

So uh based on council direction, a lot of factors that that limit all of the stuff the resources will put in the barrier, but um impact of the environment is one, and that is mandated.

Uh we do have an impaired stream within the community.

Um chloride does impact the waterways, so we're trying to limit that amount of sodium chloride that's getting to the water.

Doesn't mean that all of it that we put on the street gets there, but some of it does.

Um so uh there is a research organization that is monitoring that, trying to figure out how much we're impacting uh those streams.

Uh we're in common, we're in communication with them, and we understand what's going on with it.

There are potentially better chemicals, chemicals not a bad word, but better chemicals or different chemicals that we can use tell them to give us a chance to reach down a little bit deeper into colder temperatures.

Uh, but we need different storage, we need different um ways to applicate that that uh equipment.

So again, you know, earn it off is not the right attitude.

Um each driver is is that's out there when we're in in on four inches of snow and we're we're getting they get one of these books so they know exactly where everything is.

There's there's streets that that's out of this book.

Um, so they know where to go.

Um, if there's a cul-de-sac that's off of it, they'll communicate back and forth with the supervisor or another person that's assigned the E5 right next to it.

Like I'll go ahead and hit that, uh, but we'll make sure that that every street is plowed and treated when it's over four inches.

So they report back to their supervisor that they're done with a location, and we'll do some inspection to make sure that that's the case.

Um, have some events that are really kind of odd.

Um, we had that last year.

We had two events close together, and we had some freezing thaw after sleep.

Sleep is typically just pebbly snow, it's pretty easy to take care of.

However, when it gets covered up and it sticks and it stays, and you got freezing thaw, it turns to ice.

So we monitored that situation.

We had streets that were completely gray degree to gray, uh curved to curb curved gray, and then we had other streets that were they were you know basically 150 300 feet away, they were ice covered.

So we answered that with some backos, actually removed that ice and made people be able to get around.

So just because our plan was to plow and treat every street and then we're done, that wasn't what we did, and it would not be what we would do.

Uh so historically, um, in order to be as as reasonable as we can for all the citizens, um, as equitable as we can.

We'll go inside to out or outside to end, depending on the last snow.

So we go inside to out uh one event for four inches and then out next time we'll go outside to end.

That's the best way we can come up with it.

It's a little bit more efficient to go outside in, not much, but a little bit more efficient because you're not driving over the same streets, but it's not enough to make a difference on our response.

So if completed and considered passable, um, it's like all green on the map, and people are still having a hard time to get out, then that's when we release uh the contact center to let up let them let us know to go ahead and and uh address that street a little bit more, right?

So then we're answering calls on those streets.

Um if they're calling in while it's snowing or while the event is going on, or while our operational response is going on, yes, I'm addressing it.

But once we said it's all green, then they're they're still contacting us saying they can't go in.

We'll then we'll go ahead and check that.

So we have a methodical approach.

Uh we have a plan and we work the plan.

Uh, there is no typical event.

Um there are some guidelines.

Uh, FHWA has done quite a bit of research on this, and I encourage you to go and take a look at this.

Uh, Modite's DPG guide for anti-icing.

Uh, there's there are five types of events that are listed on there with again before after and before during and after types of approaches.

It's about 260 uh different items on a matrix of decision making.

But this gives us a chance to to say, do this, and this is the approach that'll give you the best results.

There are limitations on equipment, so we don't all have the ability to do this, but we try to hit this, and essentially what you're trying to do is get a grain of salt or a thing of rock salt about every one foot in most types of events.

So that that's enough to address the conditions that are out there.

Um as you get colder, it gets harder.

So you might go up to say 100 pounds per lane mile.

We may go up to 200 pounds per lane mile.

So six inches or snow uh or greater, we might trigger downtown snow removal, downtown snow removal.

The reason why we remove snow from downtown, there's no place to put it, right?

So once you get up to a certain amount, uh the next storm that is coming is gonna put some extra snow on there, so we've got to get it out of there.

Um, I'll do it sometimes at six inches, then it at five inches because I had other events coming, and it was gonna be cold.

Um, I've not done it at 10 inches because it was 45, it's gonna be 45 degrees two days later, a day later.

Um, so kind of depends again before, during and after.

Uh give me an idea of what it looks like.

It's a presentation all on its own.

We use backhoes to pile uh uh basically into the middle of the intersections, and then we load it up in the dump trucks or rollout containers and haul it.

Um currently we have an agreement with the university, we'll haul it to the to the zoo north site.

Um, and we remove basically from uh Worley to Rollins, um, everything that's in that providence to college.

Um and again that's triggered as part of the uh process thing.

Um 12 inches of snow are greater.

Again, we're getting into areas that that are different, but uh I we've handled 20 snows.

Uh the worst one, and we may get this in next week is ice.

Ice is its own animal and it requires a lot of things to happen.

So first and seconds on 12 inches greater snow, we're probably gonna take at least two days just to get through first and seconds.

We may be on firsts for an entire day or maybe a little longer and then get into bursts are typically uh around um hospitals, you know, we're trying to address emergency vehicle response.

So longer term horizon, we kind of give you an idea of what we're looking for.

Um my folks have this thing basically embedded into their brain.

Uh what we've been doing.

I'm a big proponent of change, but what we've been doing has not been wrong.

Uh we've been doing it the best we can with what we've had to work with.

However, if in five years we're doing it the same way, we're doing it wrong.

So they're really good about that.

We've gotten really efficient over the years uh with the resources we've had, uh, and and we continue to live by that.

So we evaluate first and second, third priorities, discuss whether uh additional parking modifications can be on third priorities would help.

Uh our cars are one of the worst things that we can have to deal with because we're big pieces of equipment.

Um, however, we like that because we can tell people park up there instead of down at the bottom of your culture sack.

Uh priority neighborhoods.

So we instituted this a few years back.

Um you can't just call in and say, I want to be a priority labor.

I want you know, I'm on mine first, right?

It's it requires them to do something, so they have to the person that's the contact has to go and make sure everybody's aware that they're priority neighborhood and remove and have those cars removed so that we can get in there and knock that neighborhood out really quick.

I can do some neighborhoods that are pretty good size in an hour and a half at night because there's nothing in my way, right?

Um, so that is really beneficial, however, uh, like last year and a couple times we'll get people they just like hey, there's no cars here, and then we'll show up and there's cars over.

So we've instituted a policy, take a picture and we leave them until we respond to them normally, right?

And sometimes they're upset.

We we thought we were required in everything.

Well, we had cars parked on the street.

So uh generally we have probably possibly too many of these priority neighborhoods right now.

We're definitely at the the top threshold if everybody called in, but normally we're getting into them at night, um, and if they do their job, then it's really gonna help us speed up the response for everybody.

So, based on council direction, we've also explored looking at a pilot uh for subdivisions to do their own snow removal.

However, we've not been successful at that.

Some people are like, well, we just want you to only sometimes, you know, we only want to do it sometimes.

It's like we have a responsibility to address their street, right?

So it's either all or none.

If they wanted to do a pilot and have us help pay for our contractor to do their subdivision, they have to take the responsibility, at least that's our opinion, that they have to take the responsibility completely for snow removal.

That way we have a contract with them, they're gonna do it or not.

Um that's our that's the only approach that I see at work.

Like there's too many chances of somebody on their side being on, somebody on our side being on, not getting communication.

Communication is gonna be a problem, especially during the teeth of it.

So we don't have any of those yet.

So potential for blowers.

So this is coming.

Um you're probably gonna see this in a budget uh request at some point, depending on a bunch of things.

Uh downtown storm removal, while it's okay, it is pretty hectic, and it's it's very it's pretty labor intense as far as how much stuff we have to put to bear.

So we've evaluated some blowers over the years, um, and we're probably to that stage where we need to get one.

Uh a couple of reasons for that.

Uh, we're also gonna be taking over some uh items on I-70 in the winter of uh 28 29 that we're gonna need some blowers to do those.

So getting one sooner probably is testing it out.

Um we set up a demo of a unit.

Uh company out of St.

Louis is gonna come in and demo a unit for us, hopefully this year, depending on logistics, it's gonna be a little bit of a university's also looking into one, so you may see that out there just to give you an idea.

Um, give you an idea of what they look like.

This is the one that's on the left is what we're gonna demo.

It's a pretty small machine, can fit on uh a pretty narrow sidewalk.

Um, it may or may not be a good enough machine for all of what we're planning on doing, but we're probably looking at something like this for pedestrian related activity on ice.

Um, one of the other ones a blower that's mounted on a uh on a wheel motor and we'll do a lot of snow.

Uh give you an idea, maybe 150,000 for the setup on the left, and maybe 280,000 for the setup on the right.

Not with the bump for the dump truck.

Um we're currently uh assessing the effectiveness of potassium acetate, probably not the right thing for us.

Potassium acetate is generally used for airports.

Um airport is using that.

We really appreciate it getting having some conversations with them about what they're doing.

Um, it's pretty expensive.

Um, it's about in essence, it's about $80 a ton, 85 dollars a ton for rock salt.

Um, in relation to that, it's about a thousand dollars a ton for potassium acetate for the same amount, but it's really effective too.

Um it's liquid and only is in liquid form.

So uh calcium magnesium acetate can be in granular form or magnesium chloride, which is what most communities use, um is something that reaches a little deeper, uh, effective to zero degrees.

Um, but we need storage for that because you can't put it in, you can put it in the same thing, but you'd be wasted money.

It's it's about a maybe not twice, but about twice the cost of salt.

So you use it when you get really cold, so you want to set it aside.

Um salt dome facility to get into that a little bit.

So we do have a new salt bones facility that's being that's under the way, hopefully gonna be constructed here this next year.

Um, it's down by uh Mill Creek Elementary.

Uh Melkrook Elementary is uh Sinclair and Nyphon to give you an idea.

Um the facility, and even on it's all on the south side of town, it's gonna help the entire town because to give you an idea, it takes about two, two and a half hours to go from Thornbrook to the salt dome and back.

So that's time right out there plowing.

We have a salt dome that's closer, less time on the road.

Um we can kind of split our forces and make sure that everybody's in the right spot.

So that's that's what the event eventual master plan looks like.

Uh what we're planning on doing this next year would be constructing the salt dome, which is uh it's basically it's not a salt dome, it's gonna be a uh it'll be a fabric building that'll be a long fabric building.

Um we'll hold 6,000 tons.

Um, so we'll have some magnesium chloride that'll be in there as well as some salt, and then another uh operational building.

So we're gonna ready to open that in the 2026-2027 winter.

Um, certainly in progress supply chain issues right now is making me pretty nervous.

I'm not sure, but it's gonna be so I believe that'll be a shame to have to talk about a little bit.

Umorks has a systematic and equal approach.

Uh plans kept really crafted uh based on a lot of information, many years, and this is historical data.

Uh we have one to two percent of days for for Missouri for Columbia, our snow over four inches stays on the ground.

That's that's the average.

So about four eight days out of the year where it stays on the ground.

We have had other times where we have that really cold two-week period uh and we'll have a little bit of snow most of the time in Missouri.

When you do really cold, you don't get a lot of volume of snow, so it robs the moisture out of the air.

So we have lots of volume of snow, most of the time you're in that 30 degree, and you can do something with it.

So we're happy when average remote occurs, but we're prepared for other stuff.

So I'll open it up to questions.

I think that was 22 minutes.

Yeah, all right, done.

Real quick.

Uh slides 13 and 14.

The ICS info.

Um, is that uh available on public side, or is that just internal for their use because of the it's meant to be an operational information?

I mean, it's it's necessary.

It can be sunshine.

We can we'll provide that to anybody that wants it.

Um it's not meant for information out of the public because it's got things in there that are just specific to operating.

Okay, and that's understood.

Uh and then slide 19 where you talk about your equipment.

Um so does that require you mentioned CDLs?

Does that require CDL for everything except the class fives?

Uh no, the tandems and single axle are CDLs, the one tons and class fives do not require CDs.

And we're trying to figure out the best pieces of equipment that do not require CDLs, but a lot of that just does.

Okay, thanks.

Um on this slide, actually.

Um, you have the little asterisk.

So does that mean that that 14 includes the four that are on delivery, or it is 18?

We are so we're not going to, yeah, those are replacement.

The the four and the one are replacement, but we're not gonna actually take the ones that are in service out of service this year.

We're gonna keep them around.

And AD until yeah, to make sure there's like if we have a 30,000 differential, then we're probably not fixing it, right?

If it if it's gonna be shuttled to the till they auction, so we'll just let that sit and go ahead and shuttle it out later.

Otherwise, we aren't gonna try to use it yet this year.

Yeah, Valerie and then beer.

Have you reached out to the downtown CID for demoing that blower?

I I haven't had those conversations with them yet.

No, okay.

Is that something that you could potentially do with a smaller blower prior to when the I-70 pedestrian walkways are completed?

Yeah, we we I mean, right now I don't have a date for the demo because I don't know when it's gonna snow for a while, and then trying to make sure that the company gets the piece of equipment and can deliver it, uh, walking around all of that.

So we're gonna demo it.

We don't I don't even know that I'm gonna demo it downtown.

We may demo it in another location that's a little bit more contained.

Um like if I have to pull the trigger to actually remove from downtown, I'm gonna be focused on removing from downtown.

So is the is one of the potential intents behind having a lower to remove snow from walkways downtown as well, or is that not always to address our existing concerns?

I mean, if we if council so directs us to do something different, then we'll try to figure out how to do it.

So from what it's gonna take to do it.

What are the existing concerns?

I guess existing as opposed to future concerns for I7D.

She got my question.

So I was gonna say as far as oh, you mean well, we're we we've agreed as the city has agreed to to take on the responsibility of of uh adding um bicycle and pedestrian facilities across those bridges, uh, and we're gonna be maintaining those, so we have a responsibility to maintain those in all weather conditions.

So and our existing bicycle and pet facilities that are not parks.

Will we be maintaining those with the blowers as well?

I mean, right now we we currently maintain some facilities that are adjacent to city properties and different pieces of uh the city are responsible for that depending on whether or not it's their adjacent parks to some uh utilities test.

I mean, right now we we currently maintain some facilities that are adjacent to city properties and different pieces of uh the city are responsible for that depending on whether or not it's their adjacent parks to us um uh utilities does some we do some but there's no current plan to take off additional responsibility the places we have existing headways we currently treat those like we do sidewalks the responsibility of the Jason property owner is what I think you might have been getting at, but I wasn't 100% sure.

Yeah, I think we have some headways that are not well defined who is plowing them, perhaps Nick has a question.

Um about communications.

If uh if a resident wants to communicate with the city about what's going on in their neighborhood, how do they do that?

And then I guess the the other part of that is is how's the city communicating to the public about anticipated impacts of snow and its removal either way.

Um so it's how how we communicate, it's it's kind of how we communicate a lot of different things, uh, social media press releases, those kind of things.

As far as someone that wants to call in, um, as I think Richard covered earlier, typically what you would do is you call into the call center, and you know, but for the most part during the teeth of a storm, we're gonna do what we're we're gonna do our plan, and so it's when we get done with what we've got planned, that then we release those calls from the call center, bring those to us.

And if there's something that we've you know, we went into the cul-de-sac, but maybe um people are still having trouble getting out.

Go go and take a look at that.

But if you release all those calls at once, you don't have a plan anymore.

You're just reacting to whoever bothers to call in first, and so that's why we try to avoid that.

We're gonna do what we're gonna do, and then we'll address it on the back end.

Yeah, so that that map will be totally green, yeah, meaning that operationally we're saying everything in town is passable, and we want it all to be passable, right?

We've done the best possible job we can given all the conditions, and we've gotten everybody to pass well if they think their streets not passable and they're contacting the contact center, then that goes out to street division, and we want to know that so just the regular number into the city to the contact center.

Um, how's the priority neighborhood?

How is the priority neighborhood determined?

So we have a process.

Um, if somebody says that you know they're they're upset that our neighborhood is never plowed, which I've had a lot of conversations with folks.

My street never gets plowed, and I've personally plowed your street.

Um but um we'll give them the information.

So we have a process, we we provide an email.

Um, and if you want to see some of that, we can send it.

I've uh shared that sometimes with council folks.

Um, and uh they're responsible for them, making sure that those kinds they on their end, they have whatever system they've got, either uh neighborhood alert or whatever it is that they're telling people.

Um folks as we're approaching a storm or saying, hey, it looks like we're going to get into the neighborhood streets.

Looks like we're gonna have more than four inches of snow.

Um we're on first and seconds now.

Please won't want your folks to remove the vehicles from from the street, and then they'll contact that person that's contacted them and say, Hey, our our street, our our streets are clear of parked cars.

Um, as soon as that's done, and we've got an opportunity to go in there and knock that neighborhood out, we do.

Um so I work typically about 30 hours, so in the in the overnight hours I'll be working.

Um, and then the my superintendent uh we overlap each other.

Um, we're having conversations, and then I've got some supervisors that are kind of special forces folks that that knock out those neighborhoods when we've got those or sometimes we'll assign it to an operator that's in an area depending on how big it is.

So it kind of depends on the location, but they've got to do their part to make sure on those street those cars are off, and then that's a really good thing for the entire community, right?

They've got that off there, we can knock that out really fast.

And I try to make that point to folks as we're approaching a man.

If I'm on KFRU or whatever it is, it's like, hey, if you would please not park on the street, that'll speed up our process.

So Rich, related to that, um, you mentioned you know, maybe we have too many.

Um so how do we how a how many do you do you estimate?

How many do we have?

And then the follow-up to that is how do you evaluate success rate for it versus the times when you know there are cars parked, and then does somebody get removed from the list?

We've got about 25 uh this year that they there's been a few that have that have requested to be in it.

We've still got a couple lingering that had in the past have not done their either not done their part or have not even had any contact with us, but we've kept them on the list because somebody at some point took that that state at some point.

We're just gonna we're gonna tell them you know, you're you're removed from the priority neighborhood system.

Um but if they want to all of a sudden start doing it, it will it will improve the response time for everybody if we can if we can do that.

So but there's only a there, I mean there is a limit on how much we do, like all 25 of them set, all the cars are removed.

It's like um we're still gonna get to them prior to the inside out or outside the end, depending on where they are, um, but but maybe not too much more.

So and then um following up on Nick's question about um the call, like calling in is and this might actually be a Stephanie routing answer.

Um, is part of the script for the contact center respondents um to say like the process for first in priority and then you're be released.

Yes, it is.

So we have a while we're waiting for them to release where we can release the questions to the streets department.

We have a set standard script that we just give to all callers based on the amount of snow.

So if it's working on priority streets, we give out that information.

If they're working um on neighborhoods, we give out that information as well.

And then they know that their address is not being sent on yet until they get to that point.

You know what I mean?

Are they aware or are they just kind of like okay, but they just assume that they're coming, they're aware we do provide that information that we're just sending out information to residents and citizens.

Um, if there's an out of ordinary or extraordinary situation on a street, we do send those over, as Rich was saying.

Um, if it's like a semi-emergency, we'll send those over as well immediately.

So we also collect addresses if there's if they are wanting them to us to report that to them so that we can send it over in one shop when we had released to let the uh let streets know that information.

Thank you.

Yeah, and from an emergency response perspective, fire department has plow vehicles on their on their own, and they'll also contact us.

So we're in contact with that emergency response side of the equation.

There used to be a lot of the hospitals had plows too, for ambulances.

They do not, so we still work with joint communications on those responses.

But the possibility that some people like to throw out that I'm not gonna be able to have somebody get to me because of snowwall issues.

I mean, it could be delayed, but we're working with joint communications for our department ambulances that to try to address those concerns.

Still winter weather, so could be delayed.

I got just a little bit of battery.

Um from an emergency standpoint, I think what's important to understand is if you have an emergency, you need to call 911 and police and fire and ambulance know exactly who to call us when they need us.

And so, because otherwise you get a lot of phone calls you can where there's an emergency that maybe just quite an emergency.

So we'd rather run that through our emergency services, and if they need us, they're gonna reach out to us and we'll pull off and go help them.

But we want that to run that way.

Okay, great.

Uh, and then my last question is just um on the what we use for treating the streets.

Um, didn't we used to use like beet juice or something?

Like whatever happened to that.

We we actually were we're kind of phasing out of beet juice because of the manufacturing process, there's some pulp problems uh with beat use again.

At one point when it first started, there were pulp problems that basically clock clogged the nozzles.

Uh, but from a brine perspective, we still use brine.

Um, in order for our salt to activate, it needs to be it needs wet, it needs some sort of thermal uh activation.

So you're actually putting it seems weird putting water out when it's when it's really cold, right?

Don't do that.

But if you have the specific uh salt content and brine, then it activates it faster.

So we're doing that pre-weting or salt when that's going out.

And we were using beat use.

Uh, we're kind of phasing out of that because again, it went for a little while where it was really great, now it's back to where it's not so great.

So we're looking at other chemicals or a couple other chemicals out there that are that are a little bit better, but again, delivery mechanism, storage mechanisms, all that stuff has to be taken into account.

Um, so actually salt brine at at 23.3 or percent is the thing to use.

So thank you.

Okay, any other questions for staff?

B was really good because it had a little bit of sugar in it and it was a little sticky, uh, so it helped stick the salt.

Um, but there's some other processes that operational.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Any other questions for staff on this?

Nope.

Appreciate it.

And we know we'll still get calls or emails regardless of what happens, but appreciate you putting the information out there and the proactiveness.

Um, I would just say, you know, I think what we saw similar to the end of last year's season, it was really helpful when staff would proactively send council members kind of like update status updates because we're getting those emails, and if we can just all be saying the same thing, that is extremely helpful for us.

Uh, and I I hope you.

So all right, we'll go ahead.

Uh, anything else for pre console?

All right, we'll go ahead and join this one at 6 35.