There's no like allowance for them under the IDVA.

The IDBA applies to DB related issues.

The IMDMA is purely domestic relations issues.

So I just want to make sure that we're very clear that this is not necessarily like obviously GALs are appointed in cases where there are going to be DV issues, right?

And we have training for that, at least for the private GAL.

Sarah will sort of talk about how OPG handles them and also OPG only does child rep, so they're not G A L's at this point.

Um in DR.

And so I just I just want to clarify for my understanding of like what the interest is in GAL since they aren't allowed for under the IDBA.

Like what the interest is within the DD task force.

I think just to get an under Katie, do you want to have anything with that?

Um, but I think really just so it's part of the process and it was talked about at the hearing, and I think there's you know, just some questions around it, just to go over it again and the process.

Um I think the questions that I sent you and Kate's talking about, you know, how how they are assigned, how they're paid, how that is capped, you know, kind of all those questions.

Cause I know from the hearing, that was just a lot of there was a lot of questions surrounding that.

So sure.

So and I just want to clarify that like because my understanding was that this task force was for DD, right?

And so IDBA related issues.

The IDBA does not allow for GAL, so it's a completely separate statute that we're working under.

So I think it's a good expectation setting for you to recognize that this is only going to be in DRD issues.

We cannot appoint GALs in DV issues, and it was my understanding that this task force was for DD.

So I just wanted to expectations that I know Sarah can talk about it a little bit more.

Um also just to remind everybody that a child rep is different from a G A L.

OPG is unable to appoint GALs in DRD at this time, and a child rep is a very different function than a G A L is.

Right.

Okay.

So Hannah, this is this is Carmen.

I I think we're all pretty clear on that point.

It was as Amy mentioned from the hearing last year.

The women that have domestic uh cases in domestic relations have children with their abusers and ended up in those cases who are victims.

Uh, there were GALs assigned in that domestic relations case, and they subsequently had domestic violence cases as well.

So that's how this whole process came up.

So I I think thank you for that clarification, but I I think we all understand that GALs are not assigned in DV cases, but we have found from the hearing that a lot of um victims who have children with their abusers ended up with GALs being assigned in their cases while in domestic relations.

So that's the context of it.

Um Commissioner Naya, are you on?

Okay, perfect.

If you would like to call the meeting to order.

Sure thing.

We will officially call the Chicago Cook County um uh violence against women task force, the this specifically for the court systems and programs working uh group to order.

Um I will uh I know that you're gonna be calling officially.

Are we are we taking attendance at this meeting?

No, there's no rule.

Okay.

So we will begin with public testimony, just a reminder public testimony requests or written comments can be submitted up to 24 hours in advance of the meeting to Nancy.gov.

Um Nancy, um, were any public comments or any written comments um submitted for today's meeting?

No public comment requests for today's meeting.

Okay, um, with that said, we will begin with our first presentation.

Um, this is for the Cook County Office of the Public Guardian Domestic Relations Division.

We will um kick it off with the presentation by Sarah uh Hawkins, director of domestic um relations division, um, who will be presenting.

Welcome and thank you.

Okay, thank you so much, Commissioner Onaya, and thank you everyone for the opportunity to present about my division, the domestic relations division for the Cook County Public Guardians Office.

So I have prepared um a short PowerPoint presentation that will I hope will guide us through um the presentation.

Uh let's see.

Let me know if you're able to share let's see if this time is it.

Oh, here it is right here.

Okay.

I'm not sure why it's not letting me share it.

You have sharing accessibility.

Because Katie, you were able to share in the earlier meeting, correct?

Yes.

Top right in right next to leave is where it's on my screen, Sarah.

It's on mine too.

Okay.

Let's see.

And yeah, when it does that if you're um okay, I'm not sure why it's not pulling it up.

I set it up earlier today.

No, no worries.

I just want to make sure.

Let's see.

Um I'm not sure.

If you want, you can also email it to me and I can share it from my screen.

If that's that would be great.

Easier, and then you can just kind of tell me, yeah, like next one.

Let me just see if it does it.

Okay.

So let me email it to you.

Okay.

Because it's for whatever reason it's not your screen.

When I did this on my teams, I was able to pull it right up.

Okay.

It should have sharing access, but yeah, it can be very finicky sometimes.

So okay, all right.

So who am I emailing it to?

Um to me here.

I can put my email in the chat for you.

Put that right in there.

Okay, there you go.

Oh, okay.

All right, great.

It almost makes me wonder if we have a different version or something of teams.

Not coming up, then yeah, there might.

I can I can it might be on my end too, so I can always I'll definitely check that out.

But okay, I just sent it to you.

Yes, I have it right here.

So I will share my screen.

Right.

Is everyone able to see this?

Oh, here we go.

Can everyone see?

Yes.

I can see it.

Okay.

I was just gonna say, is there a way to make it a little bigger, maybe?

Yeah, there we go.

Okay, all right, great.

Right.

Um perfect.

And I'll always put this.

There's always that technical glitch, right?

Yeah, no, no worries.

Okay.

Um the uh domestic relations, we're gonna go back to the to the second slide, if you don't mind.

Okay, great.

So the domestic relations division has been around since 1988.

Um, and we provide legal representation for children who are involved in um a number of cases.

Um we're appointed by um the domestic relations judges in parentage cases, and those are cases where parties are unmarried.

We're also appointed in divorce cases.

We're appointed in relocation cases, and those relocation cases are where parties want to relocate more than 25 miles away from the other party.

Um we're also uh appointed in cases involving orders of protection, and those are cases that typically start in domestic violence court and then they're transferred if there is um a parentage or divorce case or some sort of visitation issue, those cases are transferred over to domestic relations uh court, and then we're appointed at the point of trans, um, at the point that the case is transferred.

We're also appointed on cases where there are issues regarding visitation.

So you may have one parent who is really uh not getting an opportunity to see their child, and so they will often file um a visitation motion in domestic relation court.

So we're appointed on those cases as well.

Um something that I think a lot of people are not aware of, we're also appointed on third-party visitation, and those are typically grandparent cases.

So you may have a grandparent who um may have a deceased child who's a part of the case and they're not able to have visits or spend time with their child because of whatever issues that they have with the other parent.

And so lots of times they file a petition in domestic relations court and we're appointed to those cases as well, as well as sibling visitation.

So when we the other reason why we're appointed is so that's the first thing, which is with respect to parenting time.

The other times that we're appointed is when we're asked to draft what we call an allocation of parental responsibilities.

And the allocation of parental responsibilities is really just the rules of the game for the parties after their case is done.

So the allocation of parental responsibilities is a final judgment.

That judgment basically says what the parenting time is, what the schedule is, what the rules are, but more importantly, who gets to make decisions about the child.

And the decisions usually fall in one of four areas education, health care, extracurricular activities, and religion.

Yes, okay, there we go.

I'm sorry, one second.

That's okay.

Okay.

So it's the second slide.

Okay, second slide.

Okay.

That's okay.

Um, and so yeah, so I was saying that when one of the reasons why we also were appointed because we're asked to draft that allocation of parental responsibilities.

And I was saying that the last, the four areas that are contained in that allocation judgment is education, healthcare decisions, extracurricular activities, and religion.

The other part of the allocation um judgment is that we also will draft like rules of conduct for the parties and things that we think after having worked with the parties that would work in terms of their ability to manage parenting their children together after court is uh after court has been closed and there's no more sessions or anything before the court.

Can you go to the next slide?

Yes.

Okay, there's a slide before that.

There we go.

No, there should be another one before that.

There you go.

So it's the second slide.

This one?

That one.

That's correct.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, so I think we started off where people wanted to really understand how what role do we get appointed as.

What we don't do is as opposed to a guardian at light and we don't make recommendations to the court.

We take positions on what we think is best in terms of our client.

The big difference between a GAO and a child rep is that um as a child representative, we get to maintain confidentiality with our clients.

So we're attorneys, we maintain the confidentiality.

Um, when you're appointed as a GAL, you don't have that confidentiality.

You're actually appointed as the court's witness.

So the court's witness, you can be deposed, you can testify in court.

That's not something that we do as child reps.

The other thing is that we're also responsible for um settling cases, moving the cases along through the court process.

And I'm going to talk a little bit more about as we move on a little bit more about why we get appointed in cases.

We have expertise in a lot of areas that the judges really would like to have us appointed on cases.

Can you go to the next slide?

Okay.

So when I came to the division, one of the things that I wanted to do was to have like a bench card for the judges so that the judges can understand like when to what the rules are for appointing us in cases.

So this is the bench card that the judges presently have right now.

And it kind of explains like how we what our appointment is as child representative only.

All parties must reside in Cook County.

At least one party has to be represented by counsel.

And very importantly, we also require that mediation is attempted prior to our appointment.

The purpose of mediation is we hope that the parties can use the free mediation service offered in Cook County so that they could save money in terms of using a child rep.

They the people that are in the mediation division are well-trained mediators.

And so we like to make sure that they go through mediation first.

Even if they don't arrive at a full agreement, it can help settle a number of the issues so that by the time the cases get to us, you know, we kind of have a well-defined idea of what the issues are.

We have a minimum retainer of a thousand dollars and we bill at a rate of 110 an hour.

One of the things that I think that we get appointed in a lot of cases because of finances.

So although this says that we have a minimum retainer of a thousand dollars, many times we work out payment plans with a lot of with probably the majority of the litigants.

People will come to us, we they get appointed on a case, they make it very clear that they can't afford the thousand dollars.

We work with parties.

Um we will work out a payment plan with them.

Um we explain to them that that's what our billing rate is of 110 an hour, but um we also recognize the fact that these are really hard economic times.

A lot of times parties are referred because they don't necessarily have a lot of money.

Um, we don't bill for everything.

Um, but it's important for people to understand that they have to have some skin in the game.

If we didn't charge something, people take would take advantage of the fact that we're not charging anything.

Um, and so um that's this is what we've come up with, our minimum retainer of a thousand dollars.

We ask that the attorneys who are on the case um send us a copy of um the court's appointment order.

I think what happens a lot is that people think that the court is sending us the appointment order when in fact it's supposed to be the attorneys on the case.

Um, and I want to go back to something number three, where it says at least one party must be represented by counsel.

A lot of the cases that we get, um, at least one party is represented, but the other party is obviously self-represented.

Um, and so I think people sometimes ask us, why don't you take two cases, why don't you take a case where both parties are self-represented?

And I think initially we don't take those cases, right?

Because what happens is that with a lot of self-represented litigants, um, they're looking for direction, they're looking for someone to represent them, and that's not our role in the case.

So initially we don't uh get appointed on those kind of cases.

But lots of times what happens is that we can be in the middle of a case, there was one self-represented litigate, the other person was represented by counsel, and then that person has run out of money with their attorney.

And so now we have two self-represented litigants.

There are times that we stay on the case because we've been really close to finalizing it.

Um, and so we'll stay on to try to help move the case along.

Um, but I think it's important because I think a lot of times people ask us, well, why can't we do two self-represented litigants?

And that's the reason.

And then finally, the parties are supposed to send us the pleadings and the orders to so that we can review those, but we ask that they have those within seven days.

Um we try very hard to I give the appointments, we do our intake.

I think we try very hard to stick to the seven-day rule to get ourselves appointed to get the cases out to the attorneys and to have an idea of what some of the issues are.

And then we within the first 30 days, we're usually reaching out to the parties to schedule their initial appointments.

We send out to the parties an intake form.

It's a very comprehensive questionnaire about the child, about the parties, about some of the issues.

We also want to know information about our client.

Where does our client go to school?

Are there any kind of therapeutic services in place?

So it's a very comprehensive intake form that the parties are expected to send back to us.

And then we also will talk to them about payment.

We take lots and lots of calls about payment, but we we try to be flexible, but still trying to adhere to our minimum retainer rate.

You can go to the next slide.

Okay.

So what are some of the reasons why the Office of Public Guardian can be appointed in cases?

So I've already talked about the role of the child rep and a little bit about our cases.

I think probably one of the major reasons is finances.

So I think a lot of times people think, well, there's an income requirement, there's not.

But I think in lots of cases we're appointed because of finances.

But there are some other reasons why we get appointed on cases.

Another big reason why we get appointed on cases is because we have an expertise in abuse and neglect cases.

The majority of the attorneys in my division have worked in child protection.

That's what our background is in.

So we were attorneys who worked in child protection court.

So we have a high level of expertise in abuse and neglect cases.

Sometimes there are issues that come up in abuse and neglect cases, or sometimes there's a concern about abuse or neglect.

So we get appointed in those cases.

We also get appointed in cases that are considered high conflict.

So the parties are unable to arrive at any kind of decision.

They can't get along.

Sometimes we get involved in really complex litigation cases, but high conflict parties are probably one of our specialties.

And I think in large part because the judges know that the majority of the attorneys in this division have practiced in this area for quite some time, plus they have the expertise in abuse and neglect.

Sometimes the courts want someone to, we're not representing them, but sometimes they may need a little bit of direction or resources or whatever.

And so we get appointed in cases like that.

One thing that I think people forget is that self-represented litigants, there doesn't seem to be, there are some offices out there that I think that assist them, but we field a lot of phone calls from self-represented litigants who have lots of questions about the process.

And although we can't advise them, we can't give them legal advice, we certainly can point them in a direction of resources that are out there that they're not aware of.

Another reason why we are appointed is because a large part of our job is assisting these families with finding services.

So the services that a lot of families may need in these kinds of cases, they may need parenting classes, they may need parenting coaching, they may need reunification therapy, meaning that they have been estranged from their child or their issues between the relationship between the parent and child.

And so we, you know, after we've done our investigation and we've talked to people, we may decide to refer them for reunification therapy.

As well as mental health services and the mental health services can be both individual and family counseling.

I put on here we've developed that work of providers because a lot of the individuals and parties that we work with may have some difficulty in terms of paying for a lot of these services.

We've really kind of worked and developed a network of providers who can provide a lot of these services at sliding scale or low cost.

So we work with some providers who can help us provide reunification theory therapy or who could provide mental health services, both individual and family.

Providers that maybe a lot of people may not necessarily know about, um, but that we've worked with, and then we can refer the parties to those providers.

Um we have a lot of success in some of the cases that we get when we refer them to these providers because the providers also have a level of expertise in handling these kinds of cases.

And then the other reason why we get involved in cases is that there may already be DCFS involvement in the case.

Um there may have been a hotline call that was called, um, and there may be an active DCFS case, and the judges know that the attorneys in this division have dealt with DCFS cases in terms of both open cases, um, so we know how to advocate for services on behalf of our our client as well as on behalf of the families that are involved.

Um the other thing is that DCFS also offers in-tech services, and I don't think a lot of people are aware of that.

And so um a lot of times we work with the DCFS in-tect workers to provide the appropriate services for both the family and for our clients.

But the last slide?

That's the last slide.

So wonderful.

Okay.

Um so the the one of the things that I also um would like to highlight is that I think we do very good work in this division.

I think we get a lot of cases.

We get I would we get, I don't know.

We probably get about 10 to 15 appointments a week.

Um, we're very small division.

Um, and so I'm always kind of scrambling to try to um take the cases, but to try to make sure that my attorneys are not overwhelmed with cases.

I myself, I carry a caseload as well.

Um there are six attorneys right now.

Um I just had someone to retire, so I've had to kind of um change up some of those cases and reassign them.

Um, but you know, we are very hard working in the division, we get lots of cases.

Um, and I think that the judges really rely a lot upon us.

Um, there are going to be some changes right now.

We only accept cases as child representative, but that will change.

We're um working on um a new plan to um accept cases as guardian at lightum, and we'll probably we will have some additional attorney staff, which my staff is very happy about because we we have lots and lots of cases.

Each of us, I think the division, it says that we represent over 800 children.

We probably represent closer to like somewhere between nine or nine fifty.

Um, so um, but we're here because we like this work.

It's not easy work, it's difficult.

Um, but people are committed to the work.

Most of the attorneys in my division have been in the division um over 10 years, and they've been with the office probably over 20 years.

So we're really seasoned attorneys.

Um, and so I think that's one of the other reasons why we get appointed on cases.

So I know you have questions.

I feel like I've been um that was wonderful.

No, thank you so much.

I think that gives such a good insight um to everything and just like an overview of your department and kind of where you're at.

And now that was that was really helpful.

Um, I can make this a little bit bigger.

Does anyone have any uh questions or anything they'd like to go over?

Hi, this is Carmen.

Um hi Sarah, how are you?

Hi, how are you, Carmen?

Good.

I know we met some years ago.

I think when you were at juvenile, I used to be uh over the juvenile courthouse in your division, and for us, such a small division, you guys do fabulous work on as child reps.

Um and the other side, so I know the work that you guys do as child reps, it's good work, but I did have a uh a couple of questions as far as the expertise in abuse and neglect cases.

Um are the judges or does the court or are you guys able, if you have that expertise to like review if there's pending cases at juvenile court?

Like is that information used to help the court make decisions on parenting time and all those things?

So if there's a pending case in abuse and neglect court, then it should not be open over here.

The case may be open, but we're not doing anything substantial.

The abuse or neglect issue is you has to be resolved first in abuse and neglect court.

Now, are there times that abuse and neglect issues come up outside of child protection court?

Absolutely.

And so that's one of the areas that I said that we have a level of expertise in because maybe someone is alleging that there was some abuse or there is um or the other parent is neglectful, and maybe it doesn't rise to the level of DCFS involvement, but it may rise to the level where the parties could use some sort of services or something without DCFS involvement, or you know, the idea that if there's some sort of if there was a way to, like let's say there's an open DCFS case, there may be times that we could advocate to have the case as an in-tact case so that the parties are not screened into child protection, they could still get services from DCFS.

Um, and then you know, there would be monitoring by DCFS while the case is actually in domestic relations court.

So there, you know, every case obviously is really different.

Um I think that's what I like about it.

It's always challenging.

Um but I think part of the reward is for me.

Um when we, you know, I recently had a case where the parties had been in court since 2012.

And when I got the case, um, they had been going back and forth for all of those years.

And really and truly what needed to happen was that they didn't necessarily need to have court involvement, but they needed clinical involvement.

So I was able to find some really good service providers to work with the parties, get the case out of court.

Um and I recently received a phone call from the therapist who basically said, I want you to know that they're done, they're working well with each other.

Um and that's in large part because they had some therapeutic intervention.

And so a lot a big part of our job is actually to help find those services.

I don't think that people recognize that.

You know, we do all the other advocacy, but a big part of our job is to help find services.

Um, and because we're such a small division, um, we do use law clerks.

Um, we usually have about in the summertime, we have a really active summer law for program.

And then usually a lot of those students are so enthusiastic, they want to come back in the fall and the spring semesters.

And so a lot of times they assist us with cases.

Um, since I've been in the in the division, I've used the law clerks to help us develop like a directory of services because that's one of the areas that I know that we need assistance with um in terms of finding services throughout the Cook County area.

So it looks like there are questions, and I'm sorry, I haven't been able to monitor this.

No, no, that's okay.

No, that's that's no worries.

Sarah, I saw that you put some questions in there.

Do you want to um do you want to ask them or we can just go through what I'm asking?

And I and I know Sarah High School.

You know Sarah, right?

Yeah.

Hi, Sarah.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you doing?

Our names I feel the same way.

I'm well.

Yes.

Um, I just um wanted to just clarify, you know, are these uh services available at all courthouses, including the South Suburban Courts?

I know we had a um uh a conversation early on, um, and I inquired about that.

So are these services offered in a suburban court?

And Sarah, is it okay if I tell people that you called me?

Yes, absolutely.

Yes, please.

Okay.

So Sarah reached out to me prior to the hearing last summer.

Um, and had some questions um about the process and wanted to know about our office.

And so unbeknownst to me that I would meet her a couple of months later.

Um, I was we were able to have a really good dialogue, and I think I was able to assist her with maybe giving her a referral to um and then we met at the hearing that took place this past summer.

And so we have been able to have some dialogue since then.

So it's been really nice meeting her.

So I wanted to know, I wanted people to know that.

So when I started in the division, we were really just servicing the daily center in large part because it was just really difficult for the attorneys to travel to the other courthouses.

Now that we have Zoom, we've been able to expand our services to the Markham courthouse.

We've been out there for over a year or two.

And the public guardian really wants to make sure that we're able to provide services throughout all of the Cook County courthouses.

And so we do, we have started to expand and offer appointments to the judges in the other courthouses.

So they're starting to give us appointments.

I know I get appointments from Bridgeview, Rolling Medals, Skokey.

But in terms of the other courthouses, I would say the Markham Courthouse provides us with a lot of appointments.

And then sometimes my attorneys do have to, um, if there's an in-person hearing, they do have to travel um to those courthouses.

I know like we have a couple of people we were appointed on two um cases, I believe out in rolling medals where there were issues involving a child with medically complex needs, and a judge wanted someone from our office to handle it.

And so I was able to get one of my other attorneys to handle it.

And um, and so that involved her going out to uh rolling medals.

Um, and so to answer the question, we do go out to the other divisions.

Um the question is how often are judges trained on our services offered by office?

Um we try to do trainings at least annually.

Um we used to do a meeting where we would meet with all of the judges.

I mean, I know we haven't done it like in the last year or so, but that's always been the goal.

Um Judge Canichio is very helpful with facilitating that.

So we've been able to have kind of informal meetings like coffee meetings or whatever, where people where attorneys from my division will come and they meet with some of the judges and they ask questions.

Um the judges really do take advantage of the fact that they can um send appointments our way.

Um and they also take advantage of the fact that they know that they can send litigants who don't necessarily have a lot of money.

They know that we're we're always willing to work with them.

Um and then what's the other question?

Does the advocacy group like the network are they aware of these services?

You know, we certainly put our information out there.

We're on, you know, we're on all the social media outlets.

Um, I know it's sometimes by word of mouth.

And as I said previously, um I field so many phone calls from the public, people just like when I met Sarah, people who have questions, people who have concerns.

Um there just doesn't seem to be a place for people to go sometimes.

And so sometimes that's us.

Um I know that we also get questions a lot about probate court and guardianship issues there.

And so some of us have handled, I've handled cases in probate court.

And so a lot of times obviously we'll refer those people to the guardianship desk for minors.

Um, but sometimes some of our cases may end up in probate court.

I I've had a couple of cases where um we actually did have to go to probate court because some of the issues that came up in the domestic relations court.

Hannah, did you want to add anything to that?

Yeah, just because as the counterpart from DRD, I think it would be helpful to just input two small things and then Sarah asked you to speak a little bit more about the um appointment process.

So first our judges have access to the second or third slide that Sarah showed was the bench card.

All of our judges have access to the bench card when they come into the division, they're trained on OPG and how to appoint OPG when to appoint OPG.

Um, and we do have monthly division meetings with the judges where they are reminded about OPG appointments or reminded about GAL appointments.

So there's constant access to that.

Um, and then in terms of the services, Sarah, I was just hoping that you could reiterate how you actually get access to OPGs.

So you can't just call and ask for an appointment.

You have to be appointed by a judge and can you reiterate just that process because the the like advocacy services can't reach out directly to you, correct?

Right.

That's correct.

So on the slide, the bench card, that's the card that we prepare to give to the judges, right?

So what happens is that the judges will have a case before them.

You know, they may sometimes the attorneys may suggest, hey, could you appoint the office of the public guardian?

Um, you know, this is a case that I think that we can use their level of expertise or there may be finances or whatever.

And so the judges may say that's a great idea, and then the judge makes the appointment.

So I always want to make make it clear when litigants call us and they want us on their cases.

I always have to explain to them, it's not as if we can just decide to take their cases.

It's up to the judge to decide to appoint us.

And um, and so that's why I kind of went through some of the reasons why the judges will appoint us, but they have the bench card.

All of the judges are aware of our office, they have the bench card.

And the reason why I know they're aware because of the appointments that we get.

Um, and um, and so I know that they're aware.

I know that sometimes I've gotten cases.

So, for example, I know the judges talk to each other.

So I, you know, I handled a case a few years ago where all of the parties um spoke Cantonese.

And so I had to use like the special to the real language interpreters.

I had to learn a little more about that culture.

That wasn't a culture that I was familiar with.

Um, and I was um I worked with the parties for over a year and a half.

They got divorced.

We were able to work out some um parenting time as it pertained to the mother who had some mental health issues.

I was able to connect with the Chinese Service American League.

I was not even aware of that out there, but I had to find it.

And now I have a great connection when I have cases like that.

Um, and so then we were able to get services for that parent.

And then in addition to that, um, we were able to find some daycare services, in addition to helping these parties get divorced and drafting an allocation judgment.

The reason why I've shared that story with you is because for whatever reason, because of that, my success with that case, I started to the judges talked.

And so all of a sudden I started getting these cases where the parties were um, you know, spoke Cantonese or Mandarin or whatever.

And it's not because I have such a level of expertise, but it was because of the work.

And so the point is is that the judges do talk to each other.

So a lot of times a judge will go and talk to another judge and ask, I have this case, you know, trying to figure out who to appoint who to appoint, and sometimes they'll appoint us.

Um, there are times that we can't take a case.

We might be conflicted off of a case because we may have represented one of the parties in child protection court, and so we may be conflicted off of those cases.

And so what happens is that um there are times that we reach out to Loyola, who also has a program that they um they use students and they have a supervising attorney.

There are times that Loyola will take those cases or CVLS, which is Chicago Volunteer Legal Service.

So there are other options for the judges.

Um, you know, but those are the other options that they might use.

And then again, they can also, if they decide that they want to use a private GAL, then they have the list of private GALs and um child reps.

Great, thank you.

And Ronaldo, thank you for putting that information in there.

Um Sarah, did you did that answer your question?

Was there anything else?

Yeah, I just wanted to add, and I appreciate that.

Um, and I think just to kind of um uh uh to caveat um, you know, with when I did reach out to you because it was in that moment that I found out the services that you uh this this department offered.

And so to caveat back on that question about advocacy groups knowing about it, I am quite aware of you know, these appointments being having to be made by the judges.

However, um, I know on the last working group meeting, I know that there were things that was mentioned that was discussed, like, you know, there's not folks in that capacity to kind of refer, right?

Because you can't kind of talk in a couple legal capacity sometimes when there are victims that you know, maybe again they're coming in for order protection.

You find out that um the advocacy group finds out that there's children involved.

Um, I have yet to hear that that is actively being done at any courthouse.

And so that's the reason why I asked because those are some tools that could be utilized, especially when there's a victim coming in with limited funds, right?

With limited um, you know, they they're looking for someone to, you know, stay for the night.

Um, and just kind of having those things to know, like, okay, this is, you know, um not an option, but making sure that all judges understand that that should be maybe be the first step, you know, when appointing individuals um in these particular uh cases.

Um so I just wanted to make that point.

And and Sarah, to your point, and I appreciate that.

And you know, lots of cases, like I said, one of the areas is the order of protections, but a lot of the cases that we get, many of the parties um are victims of domestic violence, right?

And so we have to, we also try to find services to work with um survivors of domestic violence.

And so we've had we kind of form networks with places like Sarah's in, um, apnegar who provide supervised visitation.

Um sometimes uh when we get cases, visitation is a huge issue, and maybe the parties are not necessary, one of the parties may not necessarily be able to have unsupervised visits because maybe of the order of protection.

And so a lot of times we're charged with the responsibility of finding a provider who can provide either no cost or low cost supervised visitation.

Um, and so that's where we connect with some of the domestic violence networks and service providers.

Okay.

Nancy, go ahead.

Yeah, Sarah, I just wanted to know the billing rate of 110 an hour and the minimum retainer amount.

Are those two amounts set by state statute or it's some it's an amount that you're that the public guardian's office set according to?

Um it's an amount that was set by the retainer was set by the public guardian.

I believe the hourly rate was as well.

We are significantly less expensive than the private child reps and GALs.

I think probably on the private side, you might see 350 as a low point, maybe 400 now as a low point, um, with retainers of like $5,000.

And to be transparent, you know, sometimes we don't get a thousand dollar retainer, right?

We some parties may only come in and can only pay 100.

But you know, these are parties who need, you know, they need our assistance.

And you'd be surprised how many people, you know, make steady payments.

You know, it's really important um that they know that they have a role in this.

And so for, you know, so maybe they may only pay 150, but I guarantee you a lot of these parties are coming in and they're making the payments to, you know, to keep their to keep their bills current.

Um so, but that's what that's where that rate came in at.

Okay, thank you.

Um just to follow up.

When judges are appointing um public guardian in a case, are they also sharing with all the parties involved the fees?

Yes.

Come along.

Yes.

So there's I probably should have given you a copy of an appointment order.

So there's an appointment order.

It has our information, so it tells the um parties when when a case is done, the whether the person is self-represented or not, everybody gets a copy of the court order and it will say it gives our information.

And usually the attorneys know to call us, but if it's a self-represented person, there our phone number is usually listed on there.

Um, we don't get the orders directly from the court.

I wish we did, but we don't.

The clerks, I think have a lot going on.

And so what happens is that the parties are responsible for getting the orders on the court order.

It specifically says what the allocation of the the retainer fee is.

So the thousand dollars is split, usually 50%.

So it's usually $500 each party, right?

Um, but sometimes the judge could make a different allocation based on finances or whatever, and they may say 70% one party, 30% the other party.

And so the order says that, and it tells them, you know, you know, how much time they have to contact our office and to make their payment arrangements.

And then it gives them the information.

We have their information on the order so that we can make a determination about whether or not we can accept the case.

Got it.

Thank you.

I had one more question, but it escaped me.

So if if I remember, I'll just put in the chat.

Okay.

Sarah, this is Commissioner Naya.

I have a question regarding your capacity.

Do you all so it looks like there is a criteria that you have in place?

And if it's referred over to you all and it meets the criteria, are there times when you just don't have capacity to take on additional uh additional cases or are you able to represent?

And what does that really look like for um, you know, for your team?

So we, you know, there are times, right?

But we may say to the parties, um, like let's say the judge gave us like a 30-day court day.

We might go back and say, can you give us 60 days or can you give us 70 days?

And then I put it in a rotation so that the party is not, you know, denied our service, but we might not be able to do it in the 30 days.

I know that some of the other divisions, like the um mediation department, I think they have like a 90-day window.

We try not to necessarily do 90 days because a lot of the cases are um, they may be uh in emergency or something, you know, they need to have addressed right away.

Um, but a lot of times I will personally go back in to court and ask, can we have some additional time on a case?

And so that's how we manage it.

Um there are peak times for us during the year.

Um the return to school is a really peak time for us, but there are other times in the year where we may not get as many cases, and so it balances out.

Thank you.

Any other questions from anyone?

Yeah, um, Sarah, I just have one question.

Is um you know, going from the criminal justice side, I think one of the things that was kind of stunning to me last summer was um body attachment warrants for for people that can't pay what happens if someone can't pay the after they accept services with public guardian and you know, say they stop making payments.

What does it how does it come?

We don't we're we we we don't get discharged off the case.

Um we have lots of parties who owe us balances.

That's just the reality.

I think that's the reality of the practice in this area anyway, right?

But the difference is is that a private attorney will get off the case.

We don't necessarily get off of the case because of someone's inability to pay.

I think where it comes into play is that which I didn't talk about is these cases go on forever.

I already talked about a case that was from 2012 and it stayed in the court, but sometimes the cases come back in.

And so people will seek our appointment a second and third time.

And that's where if you owe a balance becomes an issue because if you haven't paid it or you haven't even made a attempt to pay it, you can't ask us to come back in a second and third time and you haven't even tried to pay off the balance that you owe us.

Sure.

And then for the GAL process that you're initiating, is there uh have you decided determined uh retention and and per hour rate?

Um, I believe it's probably gonna be similar, but it's also we're it's also a work in process right now.

Um we're excited about the fact that we're going to be taking on this new role.

It's a you know, like I said, most of us have served as GALs in child protection court, but it's a very different role here in domestic relations court.

Um I have had some attorneys who um we've had some cases where we've been appointed in federal court and in federal court, you you can only be um a GAL.

And so that's happened for us on a very limited basis.

Um I think there's maybe one or two cases that that's happened.

Um obviously, you know, we're gonna need some additional training.

And so we're working on that right now to train the attorneys on how to handle GAL cases because it's different.

Sure.

Yeah.

Um we have a few minutes left.

Vince, I see that you have a question if you wanted to.

Um we have a few minutes left Vince I see that you have a question if you wanted to Vince do you have your hand raised yes I do uh my name's Joseph somehow oh sorry sorry that's okay good afternoon everybody um I I would like to go back to the uh point of the uh body attachment order uh I'm a little unclear on that uh I I believe uh I would like to know what trips the trigger for a body attachment order especially if somebody uh who needs services legitimately cannot pay and and now they're getting a body attachment order for something that they have absolutely no way to pay at what point at what point what background what investigation is done or something like that for a body attachment order or is it just done by a monetary uh threshold I I was a little confused about your answer when you came across that so I was wondering if you could expand a little bit more on that for me.

Thank you.

Amy sorry and Sarah I don't mean to cut you off and I'm sure you I know you are more than capable about talking about body attachments as an attorney.

Joseph my name's Hannah Tolinsky in the senior division attorney over in domestic relations I think that this answer in this discussion would be better served at the time where we're talking about the core process of GALs which my understanding is going to be May 6th it's sort of separate from what OPG does OPG is not necessarily a and Sarah please correct me if I'm wrong obviously but OPG is not a um organization that is often filing what we call petition for rule to show cause for payments PRSCs are generally filed by our private counsel who are seeking payment for their work it's sort of a different area and it's an area that's covered by a different um a different process of law it's not covered by what Sarah is talking about in terms of the statute so I would suggest both to the commissioners into Amy that we table this discussion for later because it's not something that is necessarily dealt with by Sarah and I don't know if Sarah can provide the proper background and attention that is needed to discuss body attachments.

I'm also gonna put my email in the chat um yeah if you want to email me your questions and then um we can also address this at uh at the executive meeting but I do want to be respectful of everyone's time um that it's almost one uh so yeah if any any questions please reach out I said in our earlier meeting for those who weren't on you know we can always set up meetings or ask questions whatever we just want to be made available um but Sarah thank you so much for that presentation that was really helpful and answering all the questions that was just that was really great so really appreciate it um and if there's no other questions or comments Hannah and Kate thank you also for always uh answering the questions and we look forward to your presentation next week uh commissioner and I if you want to adjoin the meeting yeah so I'll just remind everybody that our next executive meeting is on May uh 6 at 10 a.m and it will be in person at the Cook County boardroom so we will officially adjourn this working group and we'll see you at that one have a good and thank you so much everyone I appreciate yeah thank you Sarah that was really great thank you so much thank you thank you for your presentation thank you Sarah thank you thank you thanks Sarah thank you have a good one by thank you