The Finance Committee of the Cook County Board will reconvene.

On the preliminary budget of President Tony Preckwickel, we have the Office of the Cook County Assessor, the Annbrook Fritz Cady.

Welcome, Fritz.

Good morning, uh, Chairman Daly and uh commissioners.

Uh in keeping with tradition, um, I know our mid year uh budget update will uh touch on more than just the mid-year budget.

Um so I want to update you on how we've been using the county's investment to serve the public over the last year.

Um last week I attended the annual National Association of Counties Conference in New Orleans, as I know many of you did.

Um, and uh our office was honored with five awards this year for targeting campaigns for Chicago homeowners experiencing property tax spikes, uh, for implementing a new kiosk and callback system to improve taxpayer services, for creating a new IT help desk to centralize uh tech support services, uh, for the talent pipeline that we've created through our internship program and creating uh and for creating a data integrity department for accurate data collection.

Um I also spoke to a PAC room at NACO on the topic of property taxes with uh my colleague uh Maricopa County Arizona assessor uh Eddie Cook.

Um the jurisdiction is probably most like ours.

While our county has its idiosyncrasies, the problem of high property taxes is national in scope.

Eddie and I have represented the top 25 large assessment jurisdictions over the past few years in panels just like that one.

Um each time I discuss the meaningful reforms we pushed through over the last eight years.

These changes have brought us national recognition, but more importantly, they've made the property tax system more transparent, more fair, more accessible for all the property owners in Cook County.

Um last fall I told you about new research from the University of Chicago.

Uh, Professor Chris Barry, a leading, maybe probably the leading expert on property taxes.

Um, his work showed how much fairer residential assessments have become since 2018.

Before 2018, the most expensive homes in Cook County.

Lakefront Mansions along the North Shore and Deluxe Gold Coast condos were underassessed.

That meant that their owners paid less than they should in property taxes.

More modest homes and working class suburbs and Chicago neighborhoods were overassessed when we came in in 2018.

Their owners paid more than they should in property taxes.

Professor Barry that found that we've come a very long way toward eliminating that unfairness in assessments.

In doing so, he showed that we save the owners of low and uh middle price homes 1.9 billion dollars in property taxes savings off of their bills, which is more than 20 percent of Chicago's citywide tax bill each year.

But it's bittersweet for me to talk about that progress because property taxes are still too high for thousands and thousands of working class homeowners here.

We saw that last year in Chicago when South and West Side homeowners experienced severe tax spikes.

My staff leapt into action even before bills came out.

We analyzed where bills were likely to increase and increased outreach for homeowners who we thought might be uh missing exemptions.

Our outreach earned us a NACO award.

But more importantly, it made a difference for uh all of our constituents.

We held 214 outreach events for homeowners last year, uh a record for our office beating the record that we set the prior year.

That said, we still have to tackle the root causes of high property taxes for homeowners, especially big commercial property reductions, which led to significant tax bill increases on a lot of South and West Side neighborhoods.

When data centers, when big luxury apartment buildings are getting cuts, it pushes the burden onto our neighbors.

For the last few years, we've been following the recommendations from a study put together by Cook County on commercial assessments.

That study found that assessments for commercial properties were too low after appeals at the board of review finished, especially in Chicago for properties worth more than two million dollars.

That was especially true for the highest value commercial properties.

Think downtown high rises or massive data centers in the suburbs.

We've worked with the board review to implement the reforms called for by that study.

This year, both offices have settled on a shared methodology for estimating tax rates and valuations.

So what's the impact of this?

It means our county's property tax system is less likely to undervalue commercial properties by overestimating their tax expenses.

We've also been sharing assessment data with the board review for any commercial properties that appeal to their office.

When deciding on appeals, their analysts see where our what our analysts see.

Our legal and valuations teams have defended many of our assessments on high value properties and hearings at the board review.

We focused on suburban data centers in places like Elkgrove Village and North Lake, which led to smaller reductions or no changes in a lot of cases.

So that's real making a real difference for taxpayers.

Our work there keeps taxes low for homeowners.

It's another impact of our continued collaboration with the board.

We continue to develop our expertise in this area, and we share it with others, including just this week the director of our valuation research and I, we ran a continuing education class for all the assessors in Wisconsin.

All of this work on commercial assessments also ties into a central question that comes up often when thinking about how to budget.

Given our limited time and resources, how can we make our office more accessible to taxpayers that come in every day for help?

For any of you who visited our website recently, you may have noticed some changes.

We've redesigned and rewritten many of our pages to make them even easier to understand in partnership with Literacy Works, a nonprofit that specializes in plain language writing.

We've also rewritten and redesigned our forms in recent years, and to make sure that they've translated into that they're translated into multiple languages, including Spanish, Polish, Chinese, Arabic, and Tagalog.

We've also redesigned the website for our affordable housing special assessment program, ASAP.

We administer this program that encourages the creation and preservation of low cost apartments, keeping rents tied to local income levels.

Last year we worked with the General Assembly and housing advocates to extend and expand the program through 2034.

We're really proud of this because this is one of the first programs that our state has put in place to help renters protect renters from the effects of gentrification.

We have a new data map online that shows all 1,200 projects approved for the program.

Several hundred more are expected to be approved this year.

And it's a key part of getting new housing built across the city and suburbs, something we desperately need to keep rents and housing prices low.

The affordable housing data map is just one of the many data tools that we published over the past year.

We created a housing market tracker that shows sales trends in community areas and suburban municipalities so homeowners can see why assessments might be changing in their area.

They can also zoom in to see the individual sales in their neighborhood, on their block, or elsewhere nearby.

And we've continued to update our property tax simulation tool, PTAC SIM.

PTAXIM is the go-to source for local and national researchers, policymakers, journalists, and investors who seek to understand our property tax system and suggest policy changes.

The data and functionality in PTAXM drive the reports from the county's property tax working group on incentives, exemptions, and commercial valuation.

Our data and the county's reports have led to policy changes that created real property tax savings for homeowners.

We also want to make sure that people visiting our office in person get the assistance they need as efficiently as possible.

Last year we adopted a new award-winning kiosk system that helped us manage high volume periods like the tax bill season.

With the kiosks, we have a much better system for serving each person efficiently.

For people who call into our office, we've also implemented a new callback system that minimizes the time people have to spend on hold and ensures that they're helped in the right language.

Finally, I want to give a brief overview of the ongoing reassessment of the South and West suburbs on both residential and commercial properties.

On the housing front, the Chicago area has continued to see home prices grow at a rate that far exceeds the national average.

There are relatively fewer sales, which is a reflection of limited supply.

One phenomenon we've observed is that the increase in values has been felt the most by those who own homes worth below 250 to 300,000.

This is especially true in many parts of the South Suburbs.

The DePaul Institute for Housing has data that shows places like Calumet City, Harvey, Chicago Heights, have seen some of the most price growth of anywhere in Cook County since the COVID-19 pandemic began.

On the commercial side, Chicago is continuing to recover from the pandemic.

What we've seen is the continued growth of the industrial sector and everything from data centers to logistic facilities.

In some cases, self-storage spaces are renting for more per square foot than downtown office buildings.

The other sector that's continued to grow is apartments, multifamily.

Existing large apartment buildings are also in relatively low supply, which is causing rents to increase.

That's why our affordable housing program, which helps keep rents low for working class families, is so important.

We're seeing a lot of investment activity happening with transactions and investors buying apartment buildings for record high prices in some cases.

Retail and commercial are improving from their pandemic error lows, uh, while downtown office buildings are continuing to experience a flight to quality, meaning the A and A and Trophy buildings rents are holding steady and occupancies are high.

Um there's a little more weakness in the suburban office market.

We don't see that same kind of flight to quality there.

More than ever, our office is focused on ensuring the public has the information that it needs.

Our communication and civic engagement departments continue their award-winning high impact work.

So far this year, we've held 127 outreach events for homeowners with uh 23 focused on the south and west suburbs.

I believe that's more than every business day of the calendar year so far.

Um we are only at the halfway mark of this year's assessment cycle.

So at this rate, we'll even outpace last year's record number of events, which set a record versus the previous year, which is also a record.

I want to thank our uh Chief Civic Engagement Officer Kelwyn Harris, uh, who's here in the audience right over there, uh, and also his director of outreach, uh, Lupe Marin, um, who is uh right back there and her team, they've all made this possible and it made us all very proud helping so many people.

Um in closing, as we look ahead to next year's budget, we will push to keep our office funded at a level that allows us to achieve this high level of performance and service.

You've helped to make it possible.

In a time when high property taxes and affordability are dominating the conversation in the public sphere.

We should be proud of the service we provide to homeowners and small businesses who need our help.

I'm looking forward to continuing to partner with you on this endeavor, and I'm ready for your questions.

Chairman, thank you.

Assessor, thank you.

It's good to have you here as well as Scott.

Appreciate that.

First, let me congratulate you on your recognition uh at NACO.

Uh job well done.

And uh, we appreciate that.

Yesterday we heard when we were meeting with the Board of Review that the assessor's office is now uh utilizing loaded cap rates, and A, is that accurate?

Uh I know Scott, we had talked about that a couple months ago, and you said that this process was was going forward.

So is it accurate?

And if so, how will this impact property tax valuation and assessments, etc.?

Yes, we're loading the cap rates and we're loading them with an effective tax rate, which is addressing the key reason why we didn't uh load them before.

So let's let's go into um you know why this is why we're doing it the way uh we did it and what the agreement entails.

So we didn't load tax rates for the pet for past years because we thought the tax rates that were being loaded with in the conventional methodology were overestimating costs for commercial properties and therefore underestimating the value of commercial buildings.

Why?

Because that method would use the previous year's tax rate, which wasn't taking into account the growth in the property tax base.

So, what the commercial uh county's commercial assessment report uh issued in December 2024 recommended was that we as a county adopt estimating effective tax rates.

And because we were able to agree with the board review on a method on estimating effective tax rates, then uh we're happy to load them with those effective tax rates.

So, what does it mean for taxpayers?

What I think it will mean is that the estimates of commercial properties will be more accurate, and there probably should be less volatility in there should be less difference between what the board review is arriving at and what we're arriving at, and we think that's good.

And you had listed um the valuation of commercial properties is one of the root causes, uh, which is affecting the tax rates of residential property owners, right?

It absolutely does.

So this goes directly to that piece.

Right.

We we think the most important thing that the assessor's office and the board of review can work on together is plugging away at those recommendations that were in that December 2024 report to get us to more accurate commercial valuations where they're not being undervalued.

Well, this board truly appreciates your collaboration with the board of review as well as the office of the president.

We thank you for that.

Thanks.

It's it's been good.

Commissioner, if if I could um on the topic of collaboration with the board, um, I think it's important for the folks here to know that we meet with them every two weeks on the schedule.

Um so as many of you know, it's a bit like a relay race, the baton gets passed from us to the board.

So it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we're communicating with them about where we are in our schedule and where uh they can then begin their work.

Just this week, for example, uh we uh Rush published the results of the new trier reassessment, um, that's an off-trial year.

Um we did that so that they could open earlier um and they were not fully you know any more delayed than they needed to be.

So that kind of collaboration happens on a regular basis.

Um we meet once a week on the tax bill schedules, and then there are various you know, teams meetings and phone calls and all that kind of stuff.

So I would say the collaboration between the two offices is probably the best it's been in in a number of years.

I know there were some comments yesterday that suggested that perhaps there wasn't that collaboration, but um I'd like to make sure that that everyone here knows that those conversations happen on a regular basis, and we are consistently trading information about when things begin and end.

So that's happening, and that's really good because it means more predictable uh tax bills as well.

That is really, really good to hear.

And also I want to say thank you to you because you're always available when we when we reach out, and and you also have a skill you're able to uh explain um what to me is the complex in a way I can understand it.

So I appreciate that.

We'll try.

We try.

Thank you, Chairman.

Commissioner Moore.

Do you have anything?

Commissioner Dick.

Sorry, did you have anything, Stan?

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning.

Thank you for being here for all the work you do.

Um let's start off with some uh questions about data.

So I know that it, you know, on your website, you talk about the difficulty of getting every single property's assessment perfect, and um how difficult it is to chase sales, like you can't just say, oh, well, this property sold for this amount of money, so then we're gonna assess it as as this amount of dollars.

Um so many people come in and they ask for an appeal through your office.

So if they're asking for an appeal, is there a statement where they say everything about your characteristics of your property are a hundred percent correct?

So if somebody has a certain you know, square footage or whatever it is that's wrong, or or doc details about their property that are wrong, that somehow they're required to then self-report to ensure that that is correct to allow you to evaluate that property with all of the correct information.

Well, when when people first of all, when we go into our outreach um and we're talking about what appeals are and how you can appeal, we always mention that one of the things that you can appeal on is an incorrect uh description of your property, and we really encourage people but they're never gonna increase it, they're only gonna be able to do that.

So it doesn't incentivize people, right?

Right.

Um the the other thing that we do when you when you're filing an appeal is you're representing that what you're presenting to us is is accurate.

Okay, it's true.

Um, and you know, there have been cases where uh people have have you know given us incorrect information in appeal or out-of-date information, um, and we take note of that.

Um what I would say, you know.

What so this I mentioned the presentation that we made at NACO and the effort that we have with the top 25 assessment jurisdictions in the U.S.

This would probably be the best way to find discrepancies like you're talking about.

Of course, people aren't gonna tell us about things that raise the value of their house, right?

And of course, we're not gonna be able to visit 1.9 million properties.

But everyone who refinances their mortgage or buys with a mortgage, there's an appraisal done on that property, and it goes into the information of condition and quality and other characteristics goes in a national database.

So we have been we've led a group of assessors to get access to that national database.

Our initiative is now part of NACO's national agenda.

Uh it's the first time that they've collaborated with assessors on that.

And you know, we spent time on Capitol Hill earlier this year uh trying to push for it because it's there's a federal regulator that does this FHFA, and that getting that data on condition and quality from that national mortgage database would probably be the best way to find those discrepancies that you're talking about, and certainly most cost-effective way.

Okay, so then two follow-ups on that.

What's the likelihood that that's gonna happen?

And if it does happen, how long will it take to implement?

I I would not want to handicap the likelihood of the Trump administration doing something um that would be effective like that, but I'm not gonna um I'm not gonna rule out any possibility.

Like, you know, we we what we think is happening every time we talk about so I was just at the Brookings Municipal Finance Conference uh earlier this week.

Um there's a lot of interest in this from other jurisdictions from scholars from policymakers.

We're really we were really encouraged by all the members of Congress who are interested in this initiative when we had our visits.

So um, and you know, we just saw Congress pass a bill on housing affordability that was bipartisan.

Um, and this you know, this method that we're talking about wouldn't cost the federal government a thing, and it would save property taxes by probably about you know several hundred dollars per homeowner for millions of property owners across America.

So we think it'd be smart, whether you're Republican or Democrat to put that initiative in a place on a really screaming need.

Okay, sounds good.

There is a certain constituent I have who has been very focused on these data challenges for your office, and they have kind of come up with this property data audit tool.

So I'll talk to you a little bit more about what they're talking about, but they kind of link back into your web page where you really go through in great detail the difficulty of getting each assessment perfect.

And like you said, there's 1.9 million, the system's not designed to be perfect, but there are hurdles that you face that you know could be solved, I think, with partnership in other areas.

Okay.

We're always happy to look at good ideas that are out there.

I know you are.

So the second question I have is about homeowners reporting their income for senior freeze applications.

And I'm curious about working with the Illinois Department of Revenue to partner in and collaborate to ensure that you feel like you have all the correct information.

Well, as you know, this has been a big initiative of ours.

So um, in in years past, um basically when if you're a senior applying for the senior freeze, you were attesting to the fact that your income was below a certain level.

Um, and we would periodically audit it.

Um, but there wasn't any check beyond that.

What we did, what we put into place a couple of years ago is we got an agreement with the Illinois Department of Revenue to check um if incomes for people applying for the freeze were below or b above or below the threshold.

So that was a new level of check to to uh guard against fraud um in uh the senior freeze program.

Um as you know, seniors have to apply for the senior freeze every year to reattest to their income.

Our you know, the initi the model legislation that we've had before the General Assembly for the last couple of years is to automatically renew the senior freeze because our computers can talk to the Illinois Department of Revenues computers and say if you've already have the freeze to check the household's incomes and if they're below a threshold, it should automatically renew the freeze without having people go through the rigmarole where they have to come into our office in the cold, they have to call repeatedly, oftentimes they're in wheelchairs or with great physical disability coming into our office, um, sometimes putting themselves at risk, having to pay for parking.

People shouldn't have to go through this just to verify that they're still getting the freeze.

And automatic renewal of the senior freeze would help more than 130,000 senior households who are getting that.

It would cause fewer people to fall off because they forgot to file the form.

Um it would greatly reduce all the impositions that come on people, and it would reduce demand on our office at peak times, allowing us to provide better service to others.

So, what is the hindrance of getting that passed?

I I would say um the um lack of focus from the general assembly.

Okay.

Um and you know, they've had a property tax working for tax a property tax um, you know, uh working group, especially in the house that has um that could be much more effective.

And and they really should pay more attention to this.

I'll say that, you know, as commissioners, the number one thing that many of us deal with is property taxes um year in, year out, and you know, we keep a running checklist of every senior in our district who comes to us so we can call them about their exemptions when appeals are open, communicate with them.

We do home visits for people that are homebound.

Um, and something like this, I think people think senior and freeze, and they just think seniors.

And so it is really people who have lower incomes frequently there's some disability there.

It is really difficult for them to get around.

And so having something like this would really be so helpful because I mean we we go to these people's houses, we see them all the time.

They come to our district office and they really need every little bit of help that they can get to make sure they can stay and live in place and that they can have food and that they can be with their neighbors and with their community and stay in their homes.

So it is critical.

So I mean, I think we're happy to help coordinate on this.

Um but I do think that that that collaboration with Springfield's imperative for the Department of Revenue to make sure you guys are linked up from a dollar value so nobody is claiming a senior freeze that doesn't deserve one, but the people that do deserve it are getting it, and it frees up you, frees up us to do other things that are meaningful to the right.

And we should all be reaping the benefits of better technology that's out there.

We could we can do this now.

And and Commissioner Duggan, the proof point is automatic renewal of the senior exemption.

Um it used to be that seniors had to just to get the senior exemption, they had to prove that they're over 65 every year, which was a ridiculous imposition on people.

We went to the General Assembly, we got past automatic renewal of the senior exemption, and that has led to record enrollments in senior exemptions.

It's led to declines on the order of tens of thousands in certificates of error, and it's eliminated a real hassle and rigmarole for you know more than a third of a million senior households.

The last question I have is kind of just related to um the appeals methods and fields inspectors.

So we've had this conversation a number of times where if there's a house, it's demolished, and then a new house goes up.

Um the new house, you know, the old house was 200,000 appeal assessed uh the new house is 800,000.

In Suburban Cook, there are many different municipalities, many different uh zoning and building codes, many different ways that they could communicate with your office, and not everybody does in the same manner.

So without getting hundreds of field inspectors to go out and check the progress of every single one of those improvements, um, how do you move forward to make sure that when that property is finished, there is an occupancy permit issued, somebody is in that new property that you now have the new updated assessment so that you can move forward and feel confident in your modeling.

Well, with the investments in technology and people that you have enabled us to do with your budgets the last few years, we're doing better as an office than we ever had before.

I mentioned we were at NACO with uh Eddie Cook, the assessor of Maricopa County, and he and other assessors, it's it's constantly a struggle to make sure that we have absolutely perfect information on all properties that we're tracking changes, but the data shows that we're doing better on this than ever before in terms of um you know finding those errors, improving in performance over past years, past administrations.

Uh, what I'd say is that right now, you know, we've got 38 people on our data integrity team right now, which is building inspectors and analysts and permit uh processing folks.

Um we have nine vacancies we intend to fill in the next few months.

Um at full staff, there they make up about 15% of our FTEs.

We have more people in this unit at any time in this administration or the one before.

Um what I would the what what I think about in my position is spending incremental dollars on these inspectors versus other uses of dollars at the office is something we should always think about because what is make what I think about is what makes the biggest difference to the taxpayer per dollar that we're spending.

Um so we we have to trade off, you know, we could hire hundreds of inspectors.

How much of a difference would that make for taxpayers versus defending commercial assessments on appeal, investing in better commercial data, investing in better uh taxpayer services?

So that's the trade-off that you have to make.

Well, I appreciate thank you.

Um and I, you know, thank you for updating your website.

I looked at the changes, um, and it's much clearer than it has been you know, back in 2018 when I first started working at the county.

So I will say in the last eight years, you guys have done a great job, and I appreciate your work.

Thank you.

Thanks, Commissioner Duggan.

We're in a space where we're continuing to update the website throughout the year.

So uh thanks for noticing our comms team will be very pleased to hear that.

Commissioner Naya.

Thank you, Vice Chair.

Um Thanks, Assessor, um, for being here.

Um so some of the initial questions that I had were regarding the senior.

Um, particularly, I think I look at it um with uh the senior freeze, particularly.

Um individuals where uh they it was under, I don't know, grandma or something, and then either they move to a senior assistant facility and somebody else takes over, or whether it is through a will, etc.

moved over.

I know that that had been issues in the past.

Have those been resolved.

We we think they are.

Whenever someone moves into a senior uh facility, there's data exchanged with our office so that you can't so that you won't be claiming the senior exemption on your home after you've moved into a senior facility, for example.

Okay, so that that that is already kind of cleared out.

Yes.

Well, you know, we always there can always be exceptions.

We always want to track them down, but we don't think that's the biggest problem.

We don't think that is the uh biggest problem.

On we think you know, focusing in on incomes, people are focus who are getting the senior freeze and attesting to the fact that their income is below a certain level is you know the key area where we thought we can make improvements.

We think our agreement with Illinois Department of Revenue really helps.

We think automatic renewal where their automatic data checks every year on everyone would be even better, wouldn't cost the state uh hardly anything.

Uh it would make a big difference for a lot of people.

Scott, do you want to add?

Yeah, the thing I would add is um this year we're going to be doing we were talking about the data agreement that we have with IDOR.

We're going to be auditing the entire senior freeze role in order to make sure that we have everybody on the roles that should be.

If there are people who, according to IDOR, have an income greater than the limit, we will be sending them a notice saying that we believe that they are over the limit and they need to file information with us to either prove that for whatever reason IDOR's records are wrong, or we will remove them from the roles.

Um we are also how how much advanced notice are folks gonna be receiving?

We'll be doing that in the fall of this year.

Okay.

Exemption applications don't begin until next year.

We will still send those folks an additional application next year if if we believe they may be eligible for the senior freeze.

So in essence, they're going to get two notices, they'll also receive additional reminders next year that they need to get their records updated with our office in order to do that.

So we do send folks multiple uh notices for whatever reason, people put the mail aside, they don't pay attention to it.

Um, and occasionally we have people who need to file a certificate of error.

The other thing I'll say is that we've switched to over the last year, we've switched to a new vendor to update all of the public records in our office to make sure that if somebody changes their address that we have that information available.

We had a vendor we used before that was giving us really noisy data, and we're going uh and working with Lexus Nexus now, which provides us with much cleaner, much more accurate, much more up-to-date information.

And Commissioner Naya, just to build on what Scott said, um if we found that you have what we call an erroneous exemption, and we've notified you of that fact, you're given uh ample due process um in terms of uh time to reply, opportunity to have a hearing, opportunity to provide evidence.

Um it's over a month's uh notice um to schedule a hearing before we act.

Yeah, and I think that's key.

I think uh communicating especially with the senior population, um, especially with some that may not speak English or understand the notices coming through, um, is extremely important.

You know, we get a lot of questions in our uh district office often uh regarding, you know, what does this mean?

And sometimes they confuse it with those other mailings that come in that talk about properties, right?

That are private that are trying to potentially take advantage of our residents, especially our senior residents.

So oftentimes, you know, we're having to also figure out that, but overly commu I I don't think there's anything um uh such right uh as overcommunicating with our senior population to ensure that they understand what's going on, because oftentimes we get it at the tail end when it's already done.

Right.

And that's the worst position to be in, I I would say as public servants, because now there's very little, if if at all, anything that we can do for them going forward.

Now, can you remind me the way that the process is so we're we're um folks applying for the senior freeze or the senior exemption um and just any exemptions, I would say we're paying a year behind, right?

We're pro property taxes for um 2025, but the income that is used is also 2025.

That's correct.

So what happens in cases where you see income or conditions of a senior drastically change either for positive or maybe not so positive.

The the dispositive piece of information and this is according to the general assembly's you know law is um is based on their tax return.

And so if it would be you know looking for this year you'd be looking back at for the tax return for last year.

Yeah which means it's 2024 then it would be because if you'd be tax return of last year but if you but if you're applying for the exemption uh for this year I believe it's based on the 2025 income tax return we could we could double check on this verifying I'm sure my team knows and they're like I'm not what are you asking but like I I just want to be reminded about that because there have been instances where seniors all of a sudden that they're hit with either their freeze uh you know be take taken away and sometimes if they've had to freeze for such a long time it is such a big impact that it puts them in jeopardy of you know being faulty on their property taxes.

Absolutely what does that mean is that down the line they could potentially lose their property or something worse, right?

So again communicating is key and also really understanding um you know whether uh if if there is a possibility for discussions of also taking into account very much like how we talk about the commercial side taking account their potential you know um uh funding um or revenues that they could be having how can we also look at specific our senior populations how they things can change very quickly and how it can put them again in a in a in a bad place where yes they could be faulty on their property taxes and then have to deal with potential tax sales and all of that other stuff that um with a person with fixed income may not be a favorable outcome down the line.

Such a good point commissioner and I you're on the front lines your fellow commissioners on the front lines together with us um and we're all seeing that there's a slight decline in the amount of people signing up for the freeze and I think it's because there's a decline in the number of people qualifying for the freeze because the the income threshold for the senior freeze is not kept up with inflation changes in social security benefits.

We got it changed.

So last year or in the fall of 25 but it won't be effective until next year.

Right it won't be if the the threshold for the senior freeze is going to grow from $65,000 up to I believe it's 7900 over a period of years but it only starts next year.

We wish it would have been effective for this year but downstate assessors needed another year's worth of time.

And the important piece about this we're talking about uh housing right and for a lot of and the fact that the housing stock um in Cook County in Chicagoland area um is not where it needs to be right so a lot of families are having to move in back you know with other family members and what that does to that again that that cap of income it can completely throw everything off and oftentimes you know it could be temporarily sometimes it cannot and sometimes you know you you're seeing more often that you know grandma grandpa are taking care of grandkids that are not working or potentially going to college so there's a lot of conversations happening about you know what we do especially around property taxes and how to try to get it right and I know there's a lot of stakeholders there's a lot of conversations and there's a lot of shifting um I would say circumstances here in the area that we need to figure out how to address them.

You make such a good point and we don't want to have a law which is you know intended to make sure that wealthy people aren't getting the senior freeze but in an unintended consequence deter multi-generational households from being created and and and having us uh have multiple caregivers in a house or for whatever circumstances bring that about we so you make a really good point.

Great um the next question was in regards to appeals so yesterday there was a comment about appeal should only happen at the board of review.

Do you have um any opinions on that?

Uh we administer exemptions.

Um so that's why it makes a lot of sense for us to offer appeals also under state law, um, due process for all assessors involves um uh giving people the opportunity to appeal.

Perfect.

Yeah, I I see you all as like the first attempt potentially, right?

You all do the reassessment.

There's a process in which you're able to kind of look into those characteristics, see if you if if the person does, you know, if something maybe needs to be shifted um or are adjusted, and then obviously if people still don't agree with with the outcome, then you have those other levels in which you're able to kind of push forward your arguments.

And especially because we're setting the assessments, we need to be able to explain them.

There has to be accountability, so the appeals process is there.

Makes sense to me.

Um so one of your goals in the FY20 uh 26 is to create a hiring plans um that focus on data integrity, operational improvements.

Um so ensuring that Spanish uh speakers have adequate access to the assessor's office obviously is incredibly important to me.

Um how many Spanish speakers um uh specifically do you all employ and how many are uh public facing?

Um let's see.

So uh we have uh 23 Spanish uh bilingual Spanish speakers.

So we've passed the certification for their uh Spanish ability.

Yes, and and also we offer um in every you know bi-monthly um payroll that you get, you get a bonus for speaking that additional language.

And it's not just for Spanish, it's for all foreign languages.

And when we're out recruiting for new colleagues, you know, I've I've been before you know other associations like the Philippine American Chamber of Commerce and the Rizal Center and other uh areas where we have real needs for languages in our office to make sure that we're bringing that in.

Uh but the other thing that I mentioned is that of those 23 uh bilingual Spanish speakers, 17 are public facing.

Okay.

Um and uh we're really proud of the fact that you know a lot of our the outreach events that we're doing at our office are Spanish language, like it's it's in the dozens.

How do you identify which residents need assistance with languages other than English?

Is there a mechanism within the office that uh is able to identify that?

Um so first of all, when you come in if you're coming in in person at the kiosk, um you're there are multiple different languages available and you indicate uh your language needs.

Um also uh Scott, do you want to comment?

I know there's a couple other things we do.

Sure.

So um obviously we use um, I believe we brought this up.

This was an initiative that Commissioner Marita was pushing.

We use those pocket talk devices so that way we can make sure that we're providing you know immediate translation services.

And that's both an outreach and office.

That's right.

And then typically um our outreach team will speak with whomever it is that's uh sponsoring the outreach, whether it's commissioners like yourselves or other elected officials about what language needs there are for outreach.

And depending on the language, depending on um how many uh people there might be.

Um we have a number of different options.

Sometimes we uh contract with folks who can provide uh media translation services via headsets.

Um sometimes we are just sending our Spanish language uh speaking uh outreach folks uh to those events, and they are getting service that way.

Um but we are also uh as assessor Keggy mentioned, we do a at least one virtual uh Spanish language outreach every time our township is reassessed.

We will do more as people tell us that they need those additional resources.

But that is Spanish language outreach, at least virtually, is a standard practice for us.

So every single township has an opportunity to access Spanish language services about how to appeal, how to make sure you're getting your exemptions, and how to understand your assessment notice.

Perfect.

Thank you, Scott.

Um last question under the capital equipments uh projects.

Do you anticipate any um needs in regards to equipment and for field inspectors?

Um we talked a little bit about trying to figure out what would utilize to just because maybe capacity issues, so just not sure if there's anything specifically that we need to do that.

First of all, what I'd say, and then Scott can build on that.

You know, we you have helped us to invest heavily in getting field mobile technology with our field inspectors.

That's really helped them to be more productive and more accountable so we can track their location, their activities.

Uh but Scott, you want to build on that?

Yeah, the fuel mobile is a biggest piece of technology that allows us to push that forward that is integrated with the Tyler system.

And everybody has access to inspectors.

Okay.

Um we don't anticipate any capital needs for field inspectors.

Um primarily those are taken care of um through kind of our operating budget, so that's uh software and things like that.

We are in the midst of a uh refresh of all of our a bunch of laptop units, so we we sort of do each uh set of departments each year.

Um so we are upgrading some of our just in-office technology.

Um, but at this point we don't anticipate any additional capital needs.

Perfect.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sorry.

Thanks, Commissioner.

Commissioner Miller just write you guys.

Uh thank you, Chairman.

Uh it's good to see you.

Good to see you, Commissioner.

Um we thank you very much for coming out to my district several times uh a few years and inform our residents about their property taxes.

But I know it's one of the best parts of the job.

And I know we get we get hammered, but that's our job to get uh get quite.

We always come out with more friends at the after the event.

And you know we got answers for them, which is I appreciate that.

Yeah, um, and uh four years ago, I believe, you know, we were uh uh hitting it was like a perfect storm where property taxes really rose up.

Many many residents got you know, they're uh their property went up fifty percent, and they were very upset.

And um, but you mentioned about the cap rates, and I know you you and I talked about working on some formulas where they might hopefully that should never happen again.

Can you walk me through how you're working on this and and how the cap rates operate when and working on this to to avoid this situation again?

Sure.

Um, so let's break it down sort of specifically in Cicero.

You've got some really big commercial properties, right?

You got some Amazon distribution centers, you got the Exxon uh tank farms, you got steel.

Right.

Yeah, you've got Sam's Club, you know, these are the wealthiest corporations in America, right?

Um so the way you estimate the value of commercial property is you look at what is the net operating income for a building like that, what could it generate?

And then you divide it by something called the cap rate, which is a basically a uh uh uh uh an an interest rate that helps you convert one year's annual income to what the whole property is worth.

Um so these cap rates are we get them from uh surveys, you can observe them in transactions, there are a bunch of different ways to get cap rates.

So that's the first step.

The second step is making an adjustment for the taxes that the property actually pays.

Um the way we were doing this before was we would estimate the tax rate in the numerator in the net uh operating income calculation, um, and then divide it by an after tax capitalization rate.

Um the reason why we did that is we did not want to use a tax rate that overstated the taxes that the commercial property actually had to pay.

Um and we felt the methodology that was commonly used was overestimating the expenses on taxes because you'd use the prior year's tax rate, which was usually inflated.

It was not taking into account how the tax base was growing.

So what the commercial valuation report recommended by the county, it won't some of the recommendations in there was that we as a county should be estimating tax rates rather than just using the last available tax rate because that would be a more accurate estimate of tax rates.

So now we've agreed with the board review on how to on that methodology on that question and how to do it.

And so now we are happy to instead of adjusting for estimated taxes in the numerator, we now do it in the denominator.

So let me just walk through an example for how that works.

Say a property makes ten million dollars in operating income.

In the denominator, you'd have like point one for the after tax cap rate, and then you'd add a tax rate.

If you're under the old method, you might add another point one to the tax rate.

So you'd be dividing that ten million by point two.

Now what's happening is that that 10 million will be divided by 0.1 plus a number that's that's a little bit less than 0.1, so like 0.08.

That will result in a lower uh cap rate.

It will result in uh more accurate value for the commercial property where we don't think it's underestimating as much.

And that makes a real difference for people in Cicero.

Yeah, they're people in Cicero if commercial properties are underassessed, that raises their bill bill by hundreds of dollars a year just on those big buildings that I mentioned.

And that would that would lessen the burden on the homeowner.

That's that's right.

The commercial value should be more accurate, and that affects everyone, the homeowner and small businesses.

Well, yeah, and I imagine not just my phone, but I imagine the phones in my guy were ringing off the hook.

It was a perfect storm.

Yeah, that's right.

And like this topic, some people have said, Fritz, this is a really wonky topic.

I'm like, yeah, it's wonky, but it has real consequences.

It's the number one issue next to French.

It's the number one issue, and it is through making these things better, even if they are wonky.

Let's just embrace the wonkiness and let's get it right and make it better because it helps people.

Right.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Assessor Katie, for uh your being here in your answers to your question, and for embracing the wonkiness.

Um we have a mutual love for Yeah, we are absolutely and also I I just want to say that that I think you've answered the main question that I had uh coming into this hearing, and that was an explanation of the compromise.

I don't know if it's compromised, but basically the settling on a consistent methodology for estimating commercial properties between the board of review and the assessor's office, and you've done a good job of explaining it both for Frank and questions.

Uh the question that I posed to the board of review yesterday was in previous years, uh, when you looked at the appeals that they were doing for residential properties and appeals that they were doing for commercial properties.

I think when they were successful, when the residential um appeals were successful, on average it reduced the assessment, I want to say by about four percent.

Um the commercial successful appeals were averaging about 20 percent.

Uh my first question is uh are you using a consistent method between the assessor's office and the board of review for residential properties?

Um I can't speak to the method that they are using on residential at the board of review.

What I'd say is just look what actually happens.

Um we send out residential assessments.

Um people have an opportunity to appeal at our office, then they have an opportunity to appeal at the board of review.

In fact, residential assessed values in most communities during a reassessment year are not reduced by very much at all, maybe about one percent.

So to me, what that is suggesting is that the board of review is is not changing our residential values very much.

So there probably is not that much different in approach.

They see that as uniform, they see as pretty consistent.

Um that's that's the way I interpret that then on commercial properties, you're actually absolutely right.

We see the difference between how commercial values are leaving our office being then marked down 20, 25 percent in in some communities versus the one uh for residential, so 20, 20, 25 to 1.

Um, and that that suggests there's a different perspective on commercial value, and that makes a big difference.

And that's why that commercial uh valuation report that came out in 2024 was so important.

That's also why the sales ratio studies that you have funded are so important.

Um that that study in December 2024 was built on the sales ratio studies, sales ratio studies for just as a reminder, this is a test.

So every time there's a transaction, it's like a test on how did the assessor's office do versus the board of review.

Um, and as I mentioned in the introductory remarks, you know, our numbers have been found to be closer to market values than the ones that the board of review is reducing them by, especially on larger properties.

Um those recommendations in that report are we're done with a view to getting these commercial values up closer to market.

And then consequently, when um once the now that you're on a common methodology, would you expect that those commercial appeals through the board of review that the average percent reduction and it's always a reduction because they would it would it be in the same ballpark as the the average reduction on the residential side now that you're working with?

I I don't know.

I don't want to speak for all the other things that might go into the why the board of review might be being making these changes, but I would hope that the agreement that we have on estimating tax rates would lead to smaller changes.

Uh you know, that is that is my hope.

And you you mentioned that like we have an agreement on how we value commercial properties.

I wouldn't go that far.

We've made an agreement on how we estimate tax rates that affect the value of commercial properties.

There is more to go on other recommendations in that report on what are the after-tax cap rates that we're drawing from.

What do we consider to be an acceptable source?

Um, what are the standards of appraisals that are being used in that analysis?

Um there are a lot of other things that that are in that report and some of the things that are not in that report that could also be embraced to lead to better commercial assessments, I think.

Commissioner Trevor, if I could, uh there's an additional piece of that that we're doing now.

In addition to the agreed tax rate, we are also sending the board of review data worksheets on every commercial property that appeals at their office.

Those are going directly into their system of record, so analysts can review those as they're doing their appeals.

So they see what our analysts see.

The other thing we're doing is we are defending a lot of our assessments during the the appeal hearings, particularly for very large commercial properties and with a specific focus on data centers.

There has been a past practice to just value those as a what they call a powered shell.

This is not taking into account the full value.

We have a incredible person on our team who has been doing full appraisals on these data centers and presenting them at appeal hearings.

What this has meant, and I think you'll that's worth looking at what happens once tax bills come out later this year in the North Suburbs, is to look at the percentage of commercial reductions that the board has given out in the previous reassessment versus this one.

Anecdotally, I've looked at Leiden Township, for example, and Leiden Township has a number of these data centers.

And I've seen that there are fewer big commercial property reductions happening in Leiden Township in part because of the defense of our assessments we're doing at these appeal hearings.

That means folks in that township are going to not see the huge increases that they saw in their tax bills in the last reassessment as a result of those big commercial markdowns.

So Assessor Kegy's right, there's many other things that we can and should be doing in collaboration, but I believe this year will be the first year we start to see some of those numbers come down.

And I think there's only more room for improvement from there.

And the ultimate measurement of that is the sales ratio study.

So all of you guys should view the sales ratio study as the report card on the assessor's office and the board review every year.

Now, I've got one other beef on this.

Um the sales ratio studies are supposed to be done every year.

They're supposed to be ready in December.

We we have not gotten the sales ratio study um that we are supposed to get in December.

I don't know why the office under the president has decided to link to get to wait two years before issuing another one.

We still don't have a sales ratio study on apartments ever in Cook County.

We were supposed to get that in 2024.

We didn't.

We've been waiting for it for years.

So like every December, you should be getting a sales ratio study on apartments and office, um, and I forget whether residential is being and residential every December.

And that like you should be expecting that.

Okay.

Uh one last question on the sort of the residential side compared to the commercial side.

And there are all sorts of things that go into the assessments for the commercial side that don't go in for residential.

Um I I kind of want to ask an oversimplicity question.

That's why.

Why do we why do we not, for instance, take into if we take into account the tax paid on the property uh in the assessment for commercial properties, why don't we do that on the residential side?

Because my my uh the the example that keeps on popping up in my head is rolling meadows and park forest are very similar towns in a lot of ways.

They're both built, I think, in the same year, both built for returning veterans.

The housing stack is the same.

Um, the villages are about the same size.

One's in the south suburbs, one's in the northwest suburbs.

Uh uh an equivalent house in rolling meadows is probably worth you know 30 to 50 percent more than a house in Park Forest.

They also probably pay 30 to 50 percent less in taxes than a house and park forest.

What an what a uh resident actually paying out the door every month to live there is probably the same.

It's just that one's paying higher taxes, one's paying a higher mortgage.

Um, it all seems to be tied together, but we don't take into account taxes in the assessment of residential properties.

Well, what what we would say is that the tr so how are we building our residential values?

We're we're building them based on actual transactions that are happening in that locality.

And the transactions that are happening in that locality take into account the taxes that a homeowner would have to pay.

So if you look at a community with high tax rates versus a community with low tax rates, that can help you know anticipate that that is built into the transaction prices that are paid by homeowners when they do that.

If we had as many transactions in commercial properties as we had in residential, we would be able to do commercial like residential.

Um because in commercial properties too, buyers are taking into account the taxes that they have to pay.

Unfortunately, the thing that makes commercial properties harder than residential is there are many fewer transactions, and they're also very different.

Uh office is different from self-storage, is different from many other different kinds of properties.

So that's why we sort of boil it down to the income that they generate and then try to take into account the expenses and and in uh taxes and cap rates that pertain to them.

If we had as many transactions as we had with homes and the and if uh commercial properties were as similar as homes are to each other, then we could adopt that method.

I I just want to say I really appreciate that explanation because I've been looking for somebody to state that in a way that I can explain to a constituent.

Okay.

I appreciate that.

Thanks, thanks.

And uh our comms team is taking note here too.

Commissioner Morrison, did you have anything?

Kevin?

Commissioner Steves.

I'm actually commissioner.

Okay.

Many of my questions.

Hi.

Hi.

Uh and again, like others, thank you for for always being accessible and available to come and serve uh the first district.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Um, I'm just curious, you'd mentioned a couple of times about being able to um assess all of the properties, just like it's over a million uh parcels and what that looks like.

So as artificial intelligence becomes more sophisticated, is your office um exploring the use of AI to improve the accuracy and the consistency of property assessments across Cook County?

And if so, how is that reflected in your proposed budget and what safeguards are in place to ensure fairness and eliminate bias?

And whenever these AI questions, I'm just this is a flag from my people.

Whenever an AI question is asked, it always says what's in place to eliminate fairness and eliminate bias.

I'm just saying, so what this says to me is implicit in it is bias.

Okay.

Do with that information what you will.

Um so that's that's my initial question, assessor.

Yeah, uh we have to be extremely attentive to um AI or any other kind of things like AI like machine learning, because they can build in all sorts of biases that are in there.

So what what I'd say is that um we have for the last five years in modeling homes, we use we've used a machine learning way of improving our models.

So what that means is that uh we look at many different kinds of models that we could be using, and machine learning allows us to look at what different factors block by block seem to be um affecting the value of people's homes the most.

And that's helped to make our models more accurate than the method that was in place before.

The method that was in place before, called multiple regression would tend to average two different neighborhoods that were very different.

Like you might uh the old method would involve if you had transactions in Hyde Park, they might be combined with transactions in Washington Park.

And if you average the sales of those two communities, you are gonna over-assess the people in Washington Park.

It underassess the people in Hyde Park.

So machine learning has helped us to get much better and eliminate a lot of the bias that was there before.

Um Professor Chris Berry, who's done this study has shown that we eliminated about 80% of the bias that was there.

Now you can measure bias in residential models.

And so we do tests on that.

And the way you measure it is you look at sales that have taken place in the bottom 10% of prices, so maybe you know 100 to 200,000, and you look at 200 to 300, 300, 400.

You look at all the transactions that have taken place, and every transaction's a test.

And if you see a sale for 100,000, but you assess it at 200, you just failed that test.

You overassess that home.

And then if you have a home that sells for a million dollars, but you assessed it at 900 or 800, again, you're coming close to failing the test.

And so these tests that we do is we will have a model, and then we'll um we won't show 10% of the transactions to our model.

And then when we come up with a model that we think is good, we will test it against the transactions out there that we have not seen, and then that helps us to focus in on okay, this model um is doing all right in this neighborhood, but we really need to focus on doing more work in this neighborhood with our analysts.

So, Commissioner Sam, so what I try to do to adjust the for the biases that you're talking about is first of all, measure use tests to see is there bias in the models that we're using, but second, to train our managers and our leaders to identify areas where I AI can be failing or is biased, and to train that is when us people as humans have to take over to adjust for this, and we do do that.

Well, thank you for deferring to us humans.

Yeah.

We all we need to be careful about this.

Yeah, yep, yep, yep, yeah.

In our over reliance, you know, you you use the term, and I've heard it used a couple of times, and I don't know if it's me that don't understand the difference, but if it is, then I'll be vulnerable and just ask.

What is the difference between AI and machine learning?

You're saying it as though they're two different things.

Machine learning is kind of like an older, simpler variant of AI.

Okay.

But like, you know, there are these other kinds of AI like agentic AI where like there's this thing going out there changing things without you know a human being involved with that, or there's all sorts of other kinds of AI.

We don't we don't use any of that.

But machine learning is a sort of basic way of improving models that is considered part of AI, but it's a lot simpler.

Okay, I got you.

Um so could it be used to identify patterns in overassessment?

Um underassessment across neighborhoods, property types, or demographic groups before assessments are finalized.

And I think that's important because you know we we had an ongoing thing.

There's an ongoing thing, which is you know, particularly people in my district and in my community being overassessed in the fear of getting priced out and the loss of of the opportunity of generational wealth, um, specifically in Austin and then in in Maywood.

I know I've done a lot of work and you've been on board to help me better understand it with uh Mayor Nathaniel Booker, this idea of um people getting priced out or over-assessed, and then the loss of generational wealth.

Um, and it's yeah.

So can you use or could technology be used to address that?

Yes, yes.

So uh basically um it's basically there are statistical measures that you can use to identify hey, here's an area of vulnerability where um our assessments seem to be less accurate, and that means that there could be more people being over-assessed here, and then that's where we need to concentrate on being on the ground, getting more descriptive information, doing more outreach.

So, for example, if we have a model and we're testing it against sales that have already happened, and that model is not doing a good job of predicting values at a certain price range, like say homes under 200,000 in Austin, the model doesn't seem to perform as well, then that's where we need to take, we need to take over as as residential analysts as leaders to make sure that we're doing a better job and not deferring to the model in Austin or in Maywood.

So that's that that and there are statistical tests for this.

If the model seems to be less accurate, if on average it's coming up too high, there are all sorts of tests that you can do to see: hey, here's where the vulnerabilities are in the model, and that's where we need to focus.

So if you're able to do that, when can that lever, if you will, be pooled, and how can that information be shared with constituents in a way that is easy to understand?

I like I I heard you mention um some system or a program that you invested in to make the usability of your website uh easier so that people actually understand.

I think a lot of times uh unfortunately folks speak in jargon and it's confusing.

Yes.

And you know, uh many people don't want to demonstrate their vulnerability and don't know which questions to ask.

And um sometimes just that basic understanding can be the difference between even them getting their freeze or not, like it's just what you what you understand and what you're able to access.

So is there opportunity for that?

Like I'm always interested in how people are getting information and how people are being educated so they can participate in their own rescue.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, so we try to do this in many, many different ways.

So, first of all, the outreach tool, we will do more outreach in communities where we see where we think people are less likely to be signing up for exemptions, where people need more help, where assessments seem to be changing the most, where there's a risk of a tax spike, we will concentrate our outreach team in those areas.

So that's that's the first area.

And the second area in terms of understanding in our mailings, we really focused again on not only plain language, but also giving people more information about trends, uh, about what's happening with average home prices, uh, what's going on, and and and then also in in local in the local press and in social media and our on our website, we give people a lot of information, neighborhood by neighborhood.

What's going on here are the sales that we used.

Here's the range of sales that we have.

Here's and in that tool that I mentioned, you can actually see plotted on a map.

Here are all the different sales that we used in your neighborhood, so you can understand what's going on with average prices with the range of prices, the maximum price, the minimum price paid.

You you have a lot of tools in front of you that help you to understand.

But we try to be approachable because we know that a lot of this language, as you mentioned, this language can be intimidating, it can make people feel like I I don't know what to do with this, and we we we want to make it very easy for people.

When you do an appeal, you don't have to give us information about comps.

Um we can do an appeal based on just looking at it from every different angle and give you the benefit of the doubt.

We encourage people to give us information about their home that we might not know about that detracts from the value of your house.

Like if you have a house where the kitchen hasn't been fixed up since the 40s that has low ceiling clearance, that doesn't have AC, that might have some other issues that detract from its value.

We really encourage, and we do this through all of our outreach and our videos and so many other different ways for people to bring that to attention because we want to take that into account.

Um, because that does affect the value of your house.

And that's one of those areas where you could be over-assessed.

If we think you have an average house, but actually you have a below average house and condition and quality, we we really want people to show that to us.

Is there a way?

And I'm going, this will be wrapping up.

Is there a way?

Um and I don't know where because uh oftentimes when we get into this line of questioning, it's your office, it's the board review, it's the state, it's like all of these different hands that have to do um with with property.

But is there a way that the assessment is based on what you just laid out, like what your house actually is and not the comps for the the half a million dollar renovation that happened two doors down from you?

Like, because it feels it sounds like or it feels like, um, and when we had all of those um sessions throughout the West Side, that much of what I recall, but it's been a while now, and I am a woman of a certain age, so I don't remember exactly, but it does seem like most of the assessment was based on what was happening or uh in a few blocks in the community where some of the newer neighbors have come in and done these big renovation projects uh on these homes and is is driving up the property values, but the little old lady $2 down from them that is not experiencing that, but she's getting hit with this new tax.

So is there a a way?

And if there is a way, where does that remedy exist um that you're actually getting taxed on the home you own and would actually be able to sell it for?

Because a lot of the prices that people were assessed for, they couldn't sell their houses for those prices right now.

Well, and whenever we hear that, that's always a sign that we have to get this better.

But what I'd say is there are remedies for that, and we use those remedies.

So what so what are some of the remedies that you can use to not uh have happened what you just described?

First of all, is don't compare apples with oranges.

So uh if we're looking at a home that was recently constructed that just sold versus a home that's a hundred years old, and that could totally happen in Austin.

We're we're not gonna compare something that was just a sale for something that was just built and weigh that very heavily in the value of uh the hundred year old house.

Um so what is more relevant to that hundred year old house is valuing other hundred year old houses that have sold.

So we always want to compare apples to apples, and the model the mod our modeling does that.

But so we we can use in our modeling what we know to adjust for the kinds of things that you're talking about.

The harder part is what don't we know?

Like we might not know that your kitchen hasn't been upgraded since the 1940s because we we don't have the ability, and I don't think people want our team going in everyone's kitchen.

Um it is really important for us to have a condition and quality rating for every house that reflects where that house is at that affects its resale value.

Now we do this through we have we do have building inspectors, we do have um uh you know remote satellite imagery that we can use.

Uh we have the information that people have given us in appeals in the past.

We strongly encourage people to bring forth that information that we might not know in their appeal.

This is why this effort that I described at NACO, that's part of the national naked NACO agenda of getting federal mortgage appraisal data to us as assessors would solve a lot of this problem because anyone who has a mortgage from the VA, FHA that's guaranteed by Fanny or Freddie, um that has a condition and quality rating built into it from an actual appraiser that's been in that house.

And that data is available to the federal government that could be made available to assessors now for free, and it would help people all across America at no cost to the federal government.

It would help people first-time buyers to get into homes that can't afford it now because those tax bills are too high.

So that's what that's we think that's the single best remedy that is not in place now that could make that better.

Thank you.

I took a note of and uh took a note for that.

Finally, I just want to say thank you.

Uh thank you to your office staff, and thank you to Kellen.

Uh, whenever I do have questions or my staff, they're always very, very uh they're just available.

So I do appreciate their partnership in this really difficult space of Cook County government.

So thank you, Chair.

Those that those are all my questions.

That means a lot to us, Commissioner Stamps.

Thank you.

Commissioner Miller, did you have anything?

Okay.

Commissioner McCase.

Commissioner Gaynor?

Did you have any commissioner?

Commissioner McCaus.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Keggy, and congratulations on the awards.

Um Cook County uh was really um the talk of town in at the conference as we should be of all of the great work, so everyone is to be commended.

I just had a couple questions.

So your office is doing um a lot of the outreach and things that we like to see and uh just meeting with the people.

So I truly appreciate that, but I'm still not feeling that the that our practices are aligning with state law.

So what should we be doing differently?

Um with regard to, for example, they have House Bill 1167, that's gonna be coming out.

We're talking still talking about circuit breakers and some of the other things.

So how is that going to actually impact the methodology if you already have it in the system to react a certain way to the market?

How are these going to impact people immediately?

I don't could you tell me about House Bill 1167?

I already probably ought to know this, but I don't know which what that bill is.

No, no, that's fine.

So with House Bill 1167, let me get to my notes.

Um, so it's supposed to be specifically for the South Suburban area, it's supposed to be more of a homestead, like a relief homestead exemption.

And so if you already don't qualify, it's supposed to go up to a five thousand dollars annually, it's gonna be a pilot program.

So if I am a person that meets a certain medium income, but you're not familiar with it.

So my concern was for those people who are in retirement who receive a certain dollar amount and they already don't apply for certain exemptions, are they now not going to be able to receive these exemptions on top of what they already cannot receive?

Like I have some seniors that because their income, their retirement income is so high, they're not able to participate in some of the exemption processes.

The problem is what people make and what their actual expenses are may not equate.

So example, I've had a senior whose husband recently passed, he no longer obtains his Social Security.

We're still looking into that to find out what's going on.

But that impacts the income that impacts her ability to pay mortgage.

So as we create these different laws, are we actually looking at the long-term impact, or are we just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks because it's really impact, it's really hurting people.

Well just some debt bill, what's the standard?

Is it passes that way to be able to do that?

No, it's still in it's still impending.

Is it in rules?

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, okay.

Good luck.

Yeah.

Um, but you know, there's there has there have been a lot of legislation that's focused in on what we know is a giant problem, which is affecting in particular more than any other place in America, communities in your district.

Yes.

Harvey, uh, other villages um near nearby you, they pay tax rates that are five times what the lowest rate is just elsewhere in Cook County.

And that that is my concern.

So we're creating legislation that's going to pile on even more, and then with the slow tax distribution on top of it, it's like we are fighting a losing battle.

Right.

And there are a lot of well-intentioned legislators out there who are trying to do something that's good for their constituents, but they not might not realize how damaging it is for people in your district.

In your district, yeah, when someone else is getting a cold, it is like pneumonia for the good homeowners of people in Harvey and elsewhere because there's so much on the line in their bills.

So let's start out with that.

I don't think we should have any bill that is taking away people's exemptions or lowering the value of their exemptions or making it harder to get an exemption.

Exemptions are the one little bit of progressivity in a massively regressive system, which is property taxes, which is like a wealth tax.

Um, so we want to make sure that everyone's signing up for the benefits that they can get.

Uh, there are real deep problems that cause bills to be high in communities like Harvey.

A lot of it has to do with how our education system is funded in the state, as you know, that is a long-standing thing.

If we would have had Assessor Varios or Julahan or previous assessors up here, they would have said the same thing.

It is a giant problem.

The fact that people have been saying it for a long time doesn't make it any less true.

Um, but if we're gonna fix the systemic problem of high property taxes in in Harvey, one of the ways we can do this is reduce those burdens that come through uh you know too much school funding being put on homeowners, but also we want to make sure commercial properties are not being undervalued, shifting the burden on a homeowners.

If you undervalue just a few industrial properties in Harvey, that gets pushed on to the homeowners, like the glass factory that's there.

If that is undervalued, and that glass factory has given us evidence like saying that birds were dropping uh bread crusts on their building, and therefore the value of their building should drop, that is completely obnoxious to the other homeowners in Harvey, right?

That's one of my major concerns.

And then the other one is just that um with regard to um we are again, we are pricing people out of their homes as we're continuing to build to meet the homeless shift and meet the homeowner, new homeowner uh situation, it is increasing the taxes of those that are on that block.

I have those issues going on right now in Chicago Heights.

We're doing a great job as far as building new development, however, it does it greatly impacts the bottom line for those homes that are already there that do not have just what you said, just the basic amenities or what we would assume are basic amenities like air condition, new windows.

So we have some very small dilapidated homes that people still reside in, and then to have a new home that's 300 mil 300,000 dollars built on the same block, they are absorbing that cost, especially if we're giving new home buyers tax incentives or uh to start, they're absorbing the taxes of the new homeowner.

So is there a way or any type of mechanism or discussion that we can start with regard to halting the raise of taxes for that particular area?

I don't mean across the entire county because I know everyone is not impacted that way.

But with regard to if I'm building specifically new development on your street, and your house is 1970, and I'm building this nice new 20,000 2026 home.

Is there a mechanism in place to say don't raise these taxes because absolutely nothing has changed in House A to reflect House C.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

So what we can do is in the modeling that the assessor's office does, don't mix apples with oranges.

I heard you say that.

Um and we do that with our model now.

Uh there can be there can always be you know different methods that get adopted by different assessors, but but the tools exist there today, not to mix fish with fowl, to mix apples with oranges, and we do a lot of that today.

How else are you?

How do you if you see it?

I don't I apologize.

So if you do see that it's happening, what should be the recourse of the homeowner?

I know we say do exemptions, but is there something else?

In the end, the key is for the homeowner to one make an appeal saying you overestimated the value of my house.

I could never sell my house for what you estimated it to be worth.

And you can provide evidence of that.

Um and you could could also provide evidence in your narrative of the things that detract from the value of your own house.

Like my house is not average because this kitchen hasn't been renovated in so long.

Here's some pictures.

Um the ceiling clearance is only such as all the things they could detract from value.

Our analysts are trained to listen to that right now.

But as I as I was uh mentioning the commissioner stamps, the harder part is what don't we know?

And so what we try to do as an office is to invest in all the different ways that we can get information that we didn't know already that we that we need to do a better job.

So outreach invest we made outreach its own department.

We're doing more than one event per business day of the year.

So we think that's why it's so important to invest in outreach.

It's important to focus outreach on communities like yours that need it the most.

Also, what else can we do?

You know, we we can invest in more inspectors.

We've we we're already you know staffed at a level that's higher than we've ever been at in the prior administration was at.

We can use other technologies that can help us to reveal that, maybe the this initiative that we have with NACO, we think is one of the best ways to do that on a mass scale.

Um but um it's a it is it is a hard problem.

In the end, the more the people can feel comfortable telling us and showing us that information and paying attention, the better it will be for everyone.

And let me ask you, um, this time last year, one of the large one of the number one concerns was that um all of the uh parcels and properties or entities were not actually being captured on the tax rolls.

Has that been rectified?

Are we confident that now everything is being accounted for, or what would be the percentage remaining?

Well, if you look at the data, we're doing better at this than we ever have.

We're doing better at this than the prior administration had in the prior administration before that.

Is it perfect?

No, it could always be better.

Uh what would you say is a percentage that's absent?

Um I believe last year the count was like 400 something thousand, and I know you said that that number was inaccurate at that time last year.

So what I can say is that we since while that report came out, we had already been undergoing significant changes.

So we had brought in somebody for the head of the department that had 20 years of experience in our office who understood the role of the data integrity team.

Mine fully confident that we have um solved this problem.

One thing that I think most people don't realize is that because we in the same way that appeals only happen during a certain period of the year, um, we only pick up permits and we only do field inspections on certain parts of the county every year.

So what we may do is to put something on to the next tax year in order to do a field inspection on it.

So there's always going to be a little bit of a gap.

But what I can say is that we have improved and staffed up our areas where we're getting more permits.

The biggest issue for us at this point is that some municipalities just do not send us permits.

We have a couple of of towns.

Um there's some in the south suburbs, there's some in the north suburbs.

It's not, you know, it it you've got uh mistakes in in different parts of the county.

We do a briefing before every township, and we note the towns that are not sending us those permits, and we work really closely with the township assessors, which are very active in the suburbs to solve that problem.

So it is a a rolling issue that we are continuing to invest in.

I would say it is at least a good, you know, 90% of those uh permits are on those rolls, and the ones that are not are scheduled for a subsequent tax year.

And we have tough conversations with villages that are not giving us those permits.

I appreciate that.

And I believe everything else has been answered.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Before I continue, to the commissioner, I know that the president's office is here, and they wanted to reach the state.

Good morning.

Um Jim Thompson, director of property tax policy for the office of the president.

Believe there's some questions about uh sales ratio study in the process of that.

So I want to just provide some clarification.

First, it this is not necessarily an endeavor of the president's office, it's an endeavor of the property tax reform group.

So this is all the offices together working in collaboration.

Um really where this sprang out of was one of the recommendations within the commercial valuation study that was done through the reform group that an independent sales ratio study was to be done.

Um we have worked with all the offices in collaboration to provide the data, and as soon as we were provided with the data, we began the the sales ratio study, which should be completed at the end of August.

It will encompass the the last two years.

It will encompass all properties, all types of properties, including apartments, which is something that hasn't been done in in a number of years, uh commercial and residential.

So it is an ongoing.

It will be released as part of the annual report around the the reform group as well.

So we're looking forward to providing that to the public, and that just really being one of the checks and balances against the valuation system to make sure that we are meeting industry standards.

And that's really the purpose of the sales ratio study.

So it's on target or it's it's yes.

It's on target for um as soon as we got the data, we started the the the assessment with it through a third party through we started the uh the study.

But it it should be done every year.

Uh it will be done every year as long as the the data is available in in a timely manner.

Yes.

So who's the data coming from?

Data comes uh across any valuation office coming from the from the assessor's office.

There's some coming from the board of review.

Um so that that data needs to be provided to us for us to be able to do it.

And you've you receive that.

We we have received that at this point.

The the study's ongoing, it is is on its way.

Right, because uh uh Commissioner Daly, uh our office uh basically is in a position to release data every year in the second quarter.

And so when data is released in the second quarter, you know, ideally a sales ratio study is done by the fourth quarter, so that then we can use that information in making our assessments the next year better.

And that's the time frame that will.

I mean, we want this to be a tool for the entire system to not only for the public to see where we are as as far as accuracy and and meeting industry standards, but also for the assessor's office for the board of review to see how they can improve their their evaluation.

Okay.

Thank you for the clarification.

Commissioner Basquez.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, and thank you, assessor.

Your staff have always been so responsive and helpful.

Um, I think that um Jorge Vargas is a favorite among our staff.

Uh my favorite is Scott Smith.

Um, but I just want to thank you for always being so communicative with us.

Um I did have a question about the data centers and the assessments that these data centers are applying for.

Um, and I know that yesterday the Board of Review briefly touched on it, but I was just wondering if you could um explain how some of these data centers may have reached agreements with municipalities over their assessments or what that process kind of looks like.

Yeah, I'm I'm happy to talk about it.

And it's sort of an illustration of how the property tax system is not working for homeowners.

So we might be able to provide you know details on these particular buildings later.

But um, so let's say there's a data center that we have you know, we feel strongly about the value.

We have good evidence for how we valued it, what it's worth.

Um, you know, we will send out that assessment, we'll keep track of all the evidence that we used, um, and then the uh the data center company will appeal it.

The and what we're seeing data centers do is they'll use every trick in the book.

They'll say that, oh, our the value in this data center, it's not real estate, it's personal property.

Um, even though a lot of these data centers are owned in publicly traded vehicles where they're specifically saying that they are real estate, and they do that so they don't have to pay income taxes.

They've told the public they're owned by real estate companies.

I mean, it goes on and on.

Um, but then uh once they appeal at our office, we'll rule on whatever argument that they've made, whatever evidence that they've given us.

Then it goes to the board of review.

Um and what we're doing, what Scott described earlier, and this is one of the things that was recommended in the commercial assessment report was for us to be appearing with our own evidence to defend those values.

And other taxing bodies can do that too, do that too.

Cook County can do it, school boards can do it, villages or the city of Chicago can do it.

We've had repeated meetings with Chicago Public Schools in the city of Chicago saying you should be coming with your own evidence to back us up.

And under Mayor Daly, they used to do this.

They stopped doing it under Rama Manual in the City of Chicago, and they haven't really uh resumed it.

Um so that's what can happen at the board of review.

But then sometimes we see municipalities or school districts who will say that, well, after the board review, they could appeal this to the Illinois property tax appeals board, and they could reduce it even more.

And we don't want that to happen because that might cause us as a school district to have to pay a refund to the data center owner, and we don't want that money to go out the door.

And so because we're worried that the Illinois Property Tax Appeal Board will cut the value, we're gonna make a deal with the data center company at a lower value, just to be sure.

And it was very frustrating for us.

There were several hearings that we had at the board review where we had very strong argument, very good evidence, and then the our knees were cut out from under us by school districts settling at lower values on these data centers, shifting burdens on to their homeowners.

And how do we stop that?

There are several different things that have to happen.

We need we at our assessors at the assessor's office have to do our part to put forward good values with strong evidence and put it forth the energy to defend them at the board of review.

The board review has to take that evidence into account, but then at the Illinois Property Tax Appeals Board, which is appointed by members of the governor, by appointed by the governor, they have to do their part and make school districts believe that their values won't be cut at the Illinois Property Tax Appeals Board, because if a school district feels like those values are going to be cut by the Illinois Property Tax Appeals Board, they will surrender and sign these deals.

And that is that sort of speaks to the larger problems in our property tax system.

And the negotiations that occur between the school districts or the municipalities, those are done behind closed doors.

There's no that's that's right.

School and usually it's the lawyer for the school district working with the data center company and their lawyer and hatching a deal.

And in terms of sort of, you know, that last entity, the state entity that can further reduce um assessments, there isn't really that much communication, it seems, between that entity and board of review.

They are operating somewhat separately.

Well, the board of review is responsible for representing the county before the Illinois Property Tax Appeals Board.

But the law is set up in a way that's very unfavorable to the county because when you go to the Illinois Property Tax Appeals Board, all the work that we've done, all the work that the Board of Review did, it's not counted.

It goes back to zero.

And they have to do their work again to defend their work before the property tax appeals board, where these are the richest companies in the world.

This is Microsoft, this is Google, this is Meta.

They can throw the kitchen sink at uh the property tax appeals board, and um, if they listen and they take that at face value and they don't have any other countervailing evidence, then they'll they'll make that.

But what you know, what the Illinois property tax appeals board can do is have members which are committed not to passing this burden on to homeowners that are vigilant on this.

You know, one of the other things that we've done is um you know, these uh these appellants will use garbage appraisals that make really bad arguments that would should really cost them their credentials as appraisers, and we brought them before the Illinois uh Department of Financial and Professional Responsibility saying these people should be punished for um for making appraisals that are trashing the credential of the industry, they shouldn't be allowed to practice.

And we brought them before the Illinois uh Department of Financial and Professional Responsibility saying these people should be punished for um for making appraisals that are trashing the credential of the industry.

They shouldn't be allowed to practice.

We haven't had rulings from IDFPR on those complaints, which are several years old now.

And IDFPR is also led by the governor's office.

Well, thank you.

I do think that um this is going to be a bigger problem down the road for us, and I appreciate you walking us through that process.

Um I'll definitely make mention of this.

I know that we um there's been a lot of work around making sure that data centers are um implemented responsibly, um whether that's use of our energy or in this case, as you mentioned, with all the money that they have hiring these attorneys that are utilizing the system in their favor, which is passing on the burden to so many of our working families.

So thank you for explaining that process.

Yeah, you're welcome, Commissioner Bosque.

Thank you, Edwards.

What is the success rate of individuals who do appeal in your office?

Of individuals that appeal is somewhere between a quarter and a third.

Okay.

And if they use an attorney, is it high?

Actually, people are more successful on their own than with attorney in the last couple of years.

And we we have and we have we have actually advertised that fact in the mailings that we send to people, and the lawyers don't like that.

And I know you mentioned these various centers like in commissioner's district.

And the tax incentives that we give.

What's the factor that I know?

In the end, you you're part of it as well.

Well, I know there's a study that has been.

I know we're doing a study on incentives now, and I think these worth these are worth a close look because as you know, um the property tax incentives are set up by the county.

Um, and commercial and industrial property owners can have their the value of their property, the assessed value reduced from 25 to 10 percent for a period of years if they get this incentive.

Sometimes the incentive is 100% driven by the municipality, and the county doesn't get any say in that.

In some of the other incentives, they do.

And not having these burdens be passed on onto other taxpayers, but neighboring municipalities seem to give away these like candy, and the the party that can protect the larger good is the county.

So I think it's important for the county to have some sort of say in whether an incentive is granted.

We only act when upon um a uh resolution passed by a city council or that that's right.

And in some cases, in some of the incentives, EDAC has to pass on the incentive too.

And I think there should, you know, it's worth looking at to have more of that because then the larger good of the county, the interests of these municipalities that are not ready to grant incentives so freely um are they protected.

And commissioners, as you all know, um Illinois is unique, the way we assess property calculating the AB.

And in essence, it's the local taxing districts that help drive this assessment.

So I know there's a lot of discussions, a lot of studies that have been done to Springfield.

But the fact is where when the taxing districts raise their levy, they'd say Davino effect.

Yeah, and and a great example is data centers.

There are a lot of data centers getting these incentives.

Data centers are extremely profitable.

There is no reason why they need an incentive to be able to be profitable.

Um the key issue is until Springfield changes it.

Well, they can change the the way because the tax in the and it's the various taxing districts.

In fact, you're you're as you do the assessment.

Well, that's on the one hand that's true.

On the other hand, there's no reason why you know the city of Chicago or a community that has lots of data centers needs to be grant granting a reduction in the assessed value from 25% of market down to 10 to have a data center built when every data center that's being built is massively profitable.

Okay, thank you.

Any no other questions?

Thank you very much.

Before we before we conclude, Chairman, I would just like to say a thank you publicly uh to our acting head of budget.

Sally Atoll is sitting behind the assessor and I.

Um, the budget questions.

We well, I will note that very few of our questions are about the actual budget.

So I wanted to publicly thank her.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you.