I asked the clerk to please call roll.

Council Graziano.

Councilman Anduhar?

Present.

Councilman Retz.

Present.

Councilman Trapacante.

Councilman Vazieri.

Present.

Councilman Campo Piano.

Present.

Councilman Banano.

Present.

Council Vice President Heroyan.

Present.

Council President Wall.

Here.

Thank you.

Um I may mention a little bit of programming notes this evening.

Some of you may notice.

Um Director Renzulli is once again sitting in for the clerk.

We definitely appreciate her efforts the last couple of weeks.

Some of you may or may not know.

We are very short uh short in the clerk's office.

Brings me into my second programming note.

Many of you have commented on the agenda itself.

However, the heading is incorrect, but the substance of the meeting, I have checked with the solicitor and also council attorney, and the substance of the meeting is proper.

So we will go forward.

If anyone is here in the chambers this evening.

Um our esteemed colleague, former mayor of Traffic Candy underwent surgery this week.

And I just would like to urge everyone here and in the public to keep him uh in your prayers.

Uh he's doing well.

I know some many of us have talked to him, but uh he's had surgery and and we wish him well.

We miss him and we hope he's back and we hope he can stay calm.

Uh so uh his uh his uh convalescence we hope is also very short.

I ask everyone to keep him in their prayers.

Thank you.

I'm sure everybody will and thank you for that.

Sometimes we get so wrapped up in the business at hand and uh I'll definitely I didn't think of that.

And you know it took a lot to get councilman Traffic Candy not here this evening, and probably had to hold him from getting out of bed.

Um okay, going right into public comment.

So if there once again, if there's anybody here in chambers who would like to make public comment on docketed matters, please step up to the podium, state your name and address for the record, and I'll give you four minutes just about at the end, I'll tell you to finish up.

So if anybody'd like to speak, please step up.

Okay.

Uh session pertaining to collective bargaining for the purchase purposes of receiving an update uh from the administration leading on ongoing negotiations and concessions from cities unions, police by DPW, administrative and other staff bargaining units.

Is there a motion?

Second second.

Any discussion?

There being none, Clerk, please call the roll.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, that motion carries.

We are now an executive session.

We're going to convene into the uh council offices.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um, clerk, please call roll.

Councilwoman Graziana.

Yes.

I got it.

Councilman Andy?

Yes.

Councilman Retz.

Yes.

Councilman Traffic Anti.

Councilwoman Vazierry.

Yes.

Councilman Campiano.

Councilman Banana.

Yes.

Council Vice President Horrian.

Council President Wall.

Yes.

So moved to second.

Discussion.

There'd be a non-clerk push for rule.

Councilman Graziano?

Yes.

Councilman Anub.

Yes.

Councilman Rets.

Yeah.

Say it.

Councilman Trafficante?

Councilman Vaziering?

Yes.

Councilman Campa Piano?

Councilman Banana.

Yes.

Councilvice President Horrien?

Yes.

Council President Wall.

Yes.

And let's let you just state for the record that there were no votes taken during that executive session.

All right.

Moving right along, we're going to go on to um the top of the list of new business discussion discussion of retracting the resolution in support of the Rhode Island General Assembly legislation authorizing the city of Princeton for a one year levy cap exemption for fiscal year two thousand twenty-seven not to exceed uh four point nine percent under Rhode Island General Law or four five dash two.

Um, I put this on here at this point, I'll be honest with you, and I'll tell you why.

A couple of factors brought were brought to my attention.

One it would not be a good idea to put this on this uh put this on and have to come back again.

And the current trend in our our uh I I'm sad to report at this moment that the current trend in our budget is trending right now as the most recent monthly report uh at a 9.1% deficit.

Um that and the fact that if we even if we go to 4.99, we will realize uh about a six hundred thousand dollar increase in our revenue.

That being said, I think I would urge uh my members of the council um to vote to retract this for this time because unfortunately, and it's not something I'm happy to say.

Uh we may need it in the next fiscal year.

I hope it's not the case, but I think discretion in this be this part would be the better part of Allah.

Um that being said, also you know, it would represent if we had continued the current trend as we did in the amendment process, uh giving half to the school department and half to the senior center uh allocations, it would represent 300,000 dollars per um.

So I'd urge uh for such a good discussion.

I I'd urge a motion in favor of retracting uh this resolution.

So moved.

Second.

Okay.

I'm gonna take discussion.

I just wanted to get that so we're clear in discussion.

I'm gonna go right around.

Some anyone wants to say anything.

All right.

Um, right around here.

Okay.

No, you yeah, you're you'll be next.

Yep.

Councilman can't be on an awful malice.

Thank you, Council President.

I I agree with you.

Uh I think it's uh it's wise to put this off and uh deal with what we're dealing with right now and uh get through this.

And I think the citizens spoke loud and clear that they are not in favor of a tax crease.

So uh I thank you for bringing this forward.

Thank you, councilman.

Uh councilman.

Mr.

President, thank you for uh retracting this.

It's it's it's hard.

I mean, you know, it's it's something that I think we need, but I totally agree with you.

I think it's all of our jobs on this council right now to look for ways to generate more income through the city through whatever program, whatever, whatever idea you have, I think now's the time that we need to step up and actually do something to generate more money so that way we don't next year it won't be such uh as bad as this year.

So with that, Mr.

President, I'm I'm with you 100%, and um I'll be voting in favor to retract this.

Thank you, Councilman.

Uh Councilman Benano.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

Um I just want to sort of explain how how it works to the people that are either watching or in the gallery or um wherever they may be, how it works.

If the reason why I am in favor of retracting this now is because if we were to continue with it and go to the general assembly to go over the four percent, we're not allowed to do that for a significant amount of time in the future.

So um essentially we'd be uh we'd be blowing it this year, and we wouldn't have that safety net again next year or the year after for the foreseeable future.

So I think um everybody on the council uh and and frankly, um, you know, everybody in city government at this point has been doing their damnedest to get uh the budget we need with the services we need at 4.65 and not have to go to the legislature.

I think we're gonna achieve being okay with 4.65 for this year, and we need to, you know, save our uh save our um ace in the hole for next year or the year after if we need it.

So it's not like we can do this every year, and I want everybody to know that.

Um, this is not something that if we did it this year, we could come back in two years or three years and do again.

So that's why I'm in favor of uh not doing it at this time.

Thank you.

Councilman, uh councilman Ritz.

I I'll try not to repeat anything that was said, but I think um, you know, this we put this in as a backstop, and that's what we told the residents we were doing.

We didn't need that backstop, so I think we're being transparent and keeping our word here that we pulled this back and not to repeat too much of what councilman Bonano said, you know, this was a backstop for an emergency situation.

We've pulled out of that emergency situation because of the hard work of the council and working with the administration here that we no longer need that.

So I appreciate you know us pulling that back and saving in case real emergency ever happens.

Thank you, Councilman.

Uh councilwoman Graziono.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, I mean, I I echo the other council's um sentiment on it's 3.4%, and I I agree.

I just wouldn't want to use it frivolously now when I believe that we can work the budget out for this season.

So I also don't want to put the residents through this over and over again.

So we're reasonable when we're asking um the taxpayers to cough up, you know, the 4.65.

Let's not keep going right now.

So I'll be in support of this.

Thank you.

Thank you, councilwoman.

Councilvice president.

I'm in full support of this.

Um, like Councilman Ritt said, we asked for this in case we needed it.

We all worked together.

We had great support from the unions.

Um, we don't know what our future holds, but we knew we needed to do something.

We were able to make some cuts in different areas.

And even at 4.65, that's still a large tax increase for people.

So I'm in full support of this.

Thank you, Council Vice President.

Any other comments before I ask the clerk to take role?

I see none.

Please take the roll.

Councilwoman Graziano.

Yes.

Councilman Andrew Hyde.

Yes.

Councilman Retz?

Yes.

Councilman Traficante.

Councilwoman Vazieri.

Yes.

Councilman Campa Piano.

Yes.

Councilman Bonano.

Yes.

Council Vice President Heroyan?

Yes.

Council President Wall.

Yes.

And that motion carries.

Uh moving right along.

Uh, next will be a discussion of the Cranston Home Rule Charter, the provision regulating non-interference with administrative duties pursuant to section.

Pardon me.

Uh pursuant to section three-19.

This is for discussion purposes only.

Um, I put it on there because I think sometimes in in this time we all have the council has rightfully said the members of the council um have done a great deal to go find savings and go to different departments.

And I think we just want to make sure that we have uh like a clear boundary.

Um, and I'm gonna ask the solicitor to come up.

Um clear boundary of what exactly that line is.

So, listen anytime.

Uh we're talking about uh 3.19.

So perhaps you what I would I just to reiterate what I said before.

I think you I think the council members would just like some it's just kind of a clear line in the sand guidelines.

Sometimes the you want to turn that on.

It is the charter provision, it's not always clear, but please thank you, council president, and members of the council.

So the charter is is clear on 3.19, which deals with interference in administrative matters.

Um this the mayor, the administration, and this council um have a very good working relationship.

And I think that uh I want to say that on behalf of the mayor and the administration.

I think it's clear.

But what needs what what the members of the council and all we're asking is understand that every request should truly go through the administration.

We're happy to provide, and I say that as one department head of 13.

We're more than happy to provide informational uh documents, informational uh information to any member of the council that asks for it.

But I want to be clear that the charter provision prevents members of the council from directing any department heads from doing anything, and that means meetings.

That means, hey, send me something.

Uh call me, you know, uh, within reason.

And and I just want to put some guidelines and some guardrails on that, because I don't think we want to be in this having this conversation.

We're in a very difficult uh period, both the council, the administration, the city, the taxpayers.

We're all trying to, as councilwoman woman Heroyan had just mentioned a moment ago, we're all trying to work together on this.

But members of the legis legislative branch can't be directing members of the executive branch what to do.

It's a simple separation of powers, which is why it's in the charter.

And my suggestion is that we all just get along.

We try to contact if you want to contact a department head and take myself out of it because I'm I'm kind of a pseudo-council uh uh lawyer, and I'm also by charter.

I direct the uh uh you know the administration, but other department heads.

I would just ask that everything go through the administration, whether it be um chief of staff Moretti or deputy chief of staff uh Patkis.

Just that and it could simply be a courtesy that we're going to contact X, or we'd like to speak to why.

Is that okay?

Are you okay with it?

I would bet, and I certainly won't speak for Mr.

Moretti, but I think I do in that 99% of the time, no problem.

Reach out, have at it.

Okay.

But there is a there is a there is a wall.

We have to remember that the members who are sitting here, all eight members and and and mayor trafficanti, who's not here right now, are members of the legislative branch, and the administration and the departments run under the executive branch, and there is a separation of powers.

And there is a separation of powers.

So I I can't reiterate more.

We're more than happy to work with every member of the council.

I've made it clear on my behalf.

I think the uh Mr.

Moretti has made it clear on behalf of the full administration that we're more than happy to provide documentation, provide information, return phone calls, return emails.

Uh if there's some data digging that needs to be done on behalf of the council for some questions that you have, certainly especially budget related, but members of the council cannot be calling up department heads and demanding meetings or having meetings without the knowledge of the administration.

And that's kind of where it goes because it gets into the subversion.

It gets into whether or not it's intentional or not, and whether or not that's the intent.

That's not what it is.

And 3.19 kind of spells that out, and it spells out a number of other things, including the penalties.

And we're not there.

We're not talking about that.

Okay.

But we we just all need to work together.

And I think that um I know I do.

I know I speak on behalf of Mr.

Moretti that we all were happy to help out any member of the council, council president.

We want to have uh a great working relationship, which we are currently having, which this is it's wonderful.

So I just want to stay on that page, and that's kind of why this was brought up, because uh there were um apparently some uh contacts that were made during the the budget uh negotiations and during budget preparation, which potentially could violate this.

That's all that's all, and it's not we are better than you or you're better than us, it's not.

We're co-equal branches of this of the the city of Cranston, and that's what we're working on and working towards.

So I want to just be clear on that and just listen, I know everybody here, everybody in the council wants to do right by the charter, they respect the separation of power, and that's why I I suggested we put this on so we're clear.

So, but let me listen.

Sometimes when I read this, I need a little like tangible like hypotheticals for a situation.

So if I was to call a director of a department and ask him about his budget or the figures, uh how many people as in department, or just what what figures are in this different line?

Am I violating 3.19?

No, but if um informational purposes, it's specifically that's fine.

That's fine.

It's let me go.

I'm gonna go up the ladder a bit.

Yep.

If I asked him to run me some figures, could he run me some figures on this hypothetical because he has understanding?

Say it was the tax assessor, and I wanted to change, and I've done this, I'll tell you that is fact.

That the what would it cost if we changed certain, you know, made three designations as opposed to two?

Because you and I had that conversation.

Would I be violating it then?

No, crossing the line.

Those are no, I I would suggest those are informational, and that's four.

But I would suggest that if for instance, President Wall, if you contacted Department Head X and you're requesting he do something, that's where the fine line direct him, correct.

To do so if you I'd have to ask Director Moretti.

Would you mind if Director X uh would you contact Director X on my behalf, uh, Mr.

Moretti and ask him if we can access this information, then you're doing it properly.

But by contacting director X directly and saying, do this for me, I need these numbers, and it's really a technical violation of 3.19.

Okay.

And director, uh you seem you you stood up for a reason, so you want to weigh in before I even take any questions, because I want to make sure, listen, once we draw that line, we'll know where it is.

Yeah, and let's it's it's fine because we're gonna learn.

Yeah, thank you.

This comes up by the way with every every council sometimes, and uh solicitor Millet indicated well, maybe everyone's well intentioned, but you know, we have what it is is we have a 300, we just want to give perspective.

We're you know, the administration is the executive branch operating a 350 million dollar business, and there's gotta be order, and and knowing you know, uh that what's going on uh in the sense of everyone rolling in the right direction.

Now, the council president mentioned something.

So if there's like yeah, simple informational requests, great.

But if it's one of those, hey, can you just do some research and you spend two or three hours doing this or that?

Then it's well, we then we should be evaluating their workload and priority to service the council president versus if we have something urgent going on, you might be putting them in a conflicting position.

I do that by way of example, yes.

Um, but if it's something for you know five minutes, ten minutes, whatever kind of simple information requests, sure.

Yeah, okay.

But it's more just to mostly keep order.

And the other thing too is sometimes they're put on the spot.

Um and and they are thinking, how would the administration feel?

Uh and it might be put I don't we don't want to put them in an uncomfortable position.

Um so it's more like we're just trying to uh I'll tell you just keep keep things going and priorities.

I remember in in business, uh, if you have a want to change a report in business, you put a service request into IT to ask them to change it.

And the director would then take all the requests and prioritize those requests, and just to you know, keep order and priority would be would be a uh a perfect reason why the administration would like to be you know be involved.

But correct, as both gentlemen mentioned, absolutely, unless something is just totally unreasonable, more than happy to accommodate work with your folks.

And sometimes if you wanted to meet with the department head by the it goes to employees also, but you know, it might be beneficial that if someone from the administration also sits in on the you know a meeting.

Uh so it would probably be helpful uh in the long run.

So I just want to give perspective to that, not trying to be meany people, uh, but just to kind of realize that it's kind of still a business to run.

Uh and understand you're the board of governors.

You yeah, you're overseeing, you're overseeing the administration, you're seeing the executive branch, and totally get that.

And this this body has the power of investigation too.

Obviously, we don't want to go in that direction, we'd rather accommodate.

Um, but we also realize that too.

And we know that you have that authority as well as you should.

Um, so that's really the spirit of it.

Just wanted to convey that more on a practical basis to you.

No, thank you.

And in that cut of thing, I'm gonna take some questions.

I see uh councilman in high see councilman Venano, I'm gonna go right around and give everybody an opportunity.

If you're willing to answer some questions by all means, uh councilman Ander.

Thank you.

I mean, there's nobody, and I and I thank the administration.

I mean, I learned from day one that you know everything goes through the administration, and I have always emailed the administration, they always got back to me in a timely fashion.

But my issue is with 3.19 is uh we're basically nothing.

So I think that's something we need to look at for the future.

My question for the solicitor is what are the ramifications if we violate that 3.1?

Like, is there a fine?

Are we gonna get salary deductions?

What are the fines?

The ramifications are in reality, as you read it, you could be removed from office.

That I mean, that it's it's spelled out.

Now, I haven't done a deep dive and found out when this particular uh section of the charter was passed, if you will, but removal from office is a possibility.

I'm not saying anyone would it would require a vote or require a lot of things, but it's in there for a reason.

And and that's all we didn't we didn't create the charter.

We just we live by the charter, those are the rules.

If as you just indicated, maybe it's something you should look at.

That's for the entire.

I have it, but that's for the council members.

I don't know if we have it up there.

I don't know what I don't perceive.

It says, but you to your point, I just want to read it clear.

And by the way, it says 1973, and it was um it was approved of it's got two dates 98 and 1973.

Any council members shall violate any provisions of this section, that member's each of the council shall be declared vacant by a majority vote of all the council members after a public hearing.

The seat shall be declared vacant and it shall be filled according to the provisions in the charter.

That would be the replacement.

So there is this is like a lot of times we do talk about some provisions don't have any teeth.

There is a if this then that given a vote, majority vote of the council, but it's not someplace we're going right now.

Well, I figured why not just have it.

Yeah, I mean, it it's there, it was created for some reason way back when.

I mean, you'd have to do a deep dive into the legislative history of why it was put into the charter.

Um I I think it's more as we've discussed, Councilman Andah, it's more guardrails, like you know, just a simple um courtesy that has as director Moretti had indicated, like you know, you've got you're asking someone in the tax department, for instance, to print me up all these reports and everything.

Well, that member of the tax department can't do their normal job for an hour, two hours.

And then when director Moretti asked them for what they were doing and they were supposed to be doing that, they they they say, well, I was working on X, right?

It's that's all it is.

It's not um this isn't this conversation, and um, I'm glad we're having it.

It's not the first time it's been brought up, but this is um it's just a reminder that there is some guardrails.

That's all.

That's all and and again I want to say and and reiterate we're not no one's trying to deny anyone whether it be these seven members of the call eight members and and and Mr.

Trafficante or anybody else on the council any type of information.

We're not stonewalling.

We don't no one wants to do that but it just has to be done the right way.

Like I said, you call me up can I see something?

Sure come on over no problem.

That's not a big deal.

But when we start and the language is clear in 3.1 directing someone to do something that's when it crosses the line.

That's all right thank you Mr.

Solicitor and um I I thank the administration for you know coming up today but you know it feels like we're useless and what I would say to everybody that I will always vote in favor and not to vacate your seat.

So thank you very much.

That's all I have to say thank you.

With that in mind, Councilman Bernardo Thank you.

I'm going to go around yeah I uh I want to say a couple things um and I first of all I think this conversation is good.

Uh I don't want to make a fight where there isn't one and I uh I I don't think that um you know I don't think that that this administration you know I don't think there's a problem let me just stop by saying that I think perhaps uh the email we got um was a little strongly worded um uh but with that being said I don't I I honestly don't believe that anybody here has directed any department heads I just want to say I I do want to say one thing um as a council person I feel a responsibility to ask and receive ask questions and receive answers to questions from department heads um or if you know if you want us to include the administration on that that that's fine.

I think that and and I and by the way I want to be very very clear I don't feel like this has happened uh at least it has not happened to me but I guarantee that somewhere in the future there's gonna be a council person that gets put on the mayor's pay no mine list and their questions are not gonna get answered and that council person deserves the same questions being answered as any other council person.

Um and like I said this is not happened to me I'm not saying it's happened in this administration I can only judge by what has happened to me and it has not happened to me in my time on the council um I'm not an attorney I'm not uh an overly educated person I possess a degree in communications but you know when I need a definition for something I go to the dictionary and I went to the dictionary and I I looked up the word direct and as a verb it says to regulate the activities or course of to carry out the organizing energizing and supervising of to train and lead performances of performances of and to dominate and determine the course so with that definition I hear what the uh solicitor is saying um I don't think anybody here is has done that I will say that um you know a question or hey you know what do you think of uh stop sign going here or you know um if if we were to do something would that negatively affect you know your department in some way I think those questions are germane and those questions are what we are supposed to do as a council um I think hey go park this police car over here for four hours or uh solicitor malay I need you to sue this guy I think that that's that's where we begin we get into directing people um I understand that there are nuances and I think that now that we have a more clearly defined line uh it's easier but um I do I do think that it's in our purview to get answers to questions um and I hope that continuing to get answers to questions is uh is on everybody's uh priority list thank you thank you councilman uh councilman ritz so a few things I know I know the senior center kind of put uh everyone on their back foot me visiting there um but I understand not directing work but I do like to see things firsthand and unfiltered and it just screams transparency to me so I think me visiting the senior center to see how the operations work directly when we're making decisions on firing people ending services to see exactly how it works from the people doing the work I think is a reasonable request I understand what what the charter says but I think being shopper owned to all these things just feels like a gatekeeper to me and I think in some aspects like that one we should have the power to go and and look and see how these operations work when we're deciding things that impact so much of the city here like the senior center when we're our back is against the wall to make decisions right away.

So I I disagree with that piece of it I I've always wanted transparency.

I feel like this hinders that I understand not directing work but I also think seeing things firsthand from the people doing the work without being shopper owned and getting it filtered as an important piece of it too.

I see it in my own life in my work.

If I ask my managers what's going on, I'm probably gonna get a filtered answer how they want to tell me.

But if I go and see how the work's done, then I understand it firsthand.

And I think this is even more important when we're dealing with things that impact people so directly.

It's just my thoughts.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think if you don't mind if I interject an important point.

So if I was to visit the senior center tomorrow, should I in just if this is the way I'm hearing?

Should I just call you director director, send you an email?

I'm gonna be going by the senior center.

I'm not gonna be telling anybody to do any work.

I just want to see it on my own.

I think I think a courtesy of doing that just in case I'm aware that something else might be going on and we have a priority.

I could maybe, hey, could you make it another day if something else was up?

But just yeah, I think it's a courtesy and just to realize that maybe we do have some knowledge about something going on that might be a conflict.

You'll get a quick response.

But it's not necessarily permission, by the way, to that, absolutely.

Council would be welcome to any any uh view any facility, any operation.

Um, but you know, the let me just say if you wanted to have specific meetings with people, that could be disruptive.

Uh yeah.

So if I want to direct someone to have a meeting with me, that would be a little bit more.

I think it's but I should be, but I think in the part that I heard, and this is what kind of resonated was I shouldn't need a chaperone.

Like you don't have to chaperone me when I go to the senior center, it's not a construction site.

No, it's just like a heads up in case there's some event going on.

Is that or to say maybe believe it or not, we might have some knowledge of the topic that we could the administration knows of some that could be helpful.

Uh or can we just voice an opinion?

But no, to prevent you from going, absolutely absolutely okay.

That's clear.

But councilman Ritz, you good?

All right.

Um councilwoman Graziana.

Thank you, President.

Um and I do I want to compile I have read it and interpretation.

Definitely should stay.

Okay.

I don't know what to say.

How about now?

The red if you have a rock I could put on it.

Um, is this okay?

I'm gonna press really hard.

So far, okay.

So I I understand what the charter says, and I understand directing department heads, but I I do have some of the same feelings that council members have already mentioned, which is like if I'm a resident and I'm not a council person, I can simply go into a department head and request information.

It's public records requests.

So I feel like I have more authority as a regular resident to go in and just do a public records request.

Second thing is same thing with a meeting as a resident.

I could go in as a straight resident and request a meeting with any staff member, and they have to manage that.

They have to manage their workload and segueing into that.

I mean, I feel this way about my position in a municipality.

If I'm a department head, which I am, I should have some level of autonomy, which is why you you asked me to be and work and get paid 150,000.

I'm making up numbers, 150,000 a year because I'm a department head, I have autonomy, I manage my department, I can manage my workload.

So people come in and ask me questions all the time, and I have to manage my own workload.

So I don't I don't think that we're directing anyone to do anything.

I think we're just simply gathering information for something that's on the agenda, which sounds like I mean a resident could do more efficiently than I can do it.

That's what it's sounding like to me.

That's just my personal opinion.

Um, I I believe that maybe I should just be a resident and just come on and speak on every agenda item and do my own research through public records.

Um I just I just feel that like if you're paying somebody X amount of dollars and you think they're a department head level that they should be able to manage a level of workload unless you're micromanaging every single aspect.

Some things, yes, I agree with you know, Councilman Bonano, I'm not gonna go direct uh, you know, just so I don't have to make something else up, like direct a police officer to sit in front of my house for two hours, or um tell somebody to write a ticket or whatever it is, cut down a tree, you know, plant a tree, um whatever whatever it is.

So anyway, my point is that I'm not gonna direct anyone to do anything, but I would think that staff would be able to somewhat manage their time to meet with not just a council person, a resident.

We're also residents.

So I guess I have a hard time sort of dealing with that.

Like if I have to be babysat.

So if I'm a resident, I don't have to be babysat.

So maybe maybe I'm a resident.

Um, and then I I do feel the same way Frank feels.

Um, sorry, councilman Ritz, about you know, visiting the senior center, because I was one of the people that visited the ice rank.

But I could have just gone ice skating and visited the ice rank.

I didn't direct anyone to do anything.

I was on an educational exploration.

And um, I could have just skated around and done that and taken pictures.

It's a public place.

I mean, I can guess I can go to the senior center and with my mom and you know, go to one of the courses, and maybe that's a better way to do it than as a council person.

I don't know, but I guess my point is um maybe I should public records request everything, and then you have to provide it to me in 10 days.

Maybe I should just be a resident.

These are just like funny things, right?

I'm I'm not being adversarial.

I'm just this is what I'm hearing in my mind.

And also I work differently.

I am able to answer the public's questions when they come into my office to see me.

So and I I manage my own workload based on what I have to do for my job.

So I believe that that's what you're hired for.

And if you're not, then maybe you're not a department head.

Um I think that's all I had, and I do appreciate this.

And it I'm not being adversarial.

I'm just thinking my position doesn't it means I can do less research than I can as a resident.

That's my opinion.

Thank you, councilwoman.

Uh council vice president.

I echo what everyone else has just said, but I want to clarify something, make sure I understood this.

This part of the charter was written in 1973 and hasn't been updated.

Is that correct?

Probably.

I think we probably have at least five members on this council that were not even born then.

So you've got a couple.

Yeah, so we probably need to update that.

That's first thing we learned.

Just to be clear, and I just on this part we don't get to update the charter.

That's okay.

That's up to the voters.

Okay, well, we can get it on the right.

It's it's possible, and that's something separate discussion all together.

Yeah, which will require a charter commission to review the charter to figure out why this is in there.

Um again, councilwoman Heroyan.

No one's I I don't think anyone's trying to throw barbs or or accusations.

And no one's trying to micromanage to definite.

No one's trying to micromanage anything.

Yeah.

But but I'm gonna suggest this, and I'm just gonna say this right as is.

When everyone takes their oath of office, you all agree that you're no longer just citizens.

You agree to uphold the laws of the United States, the state of Rhode Island, and the charter and provisions and ordinances of the city of Cranston.

So while it's here, whether you disagree with it or not, your oath of office requires you to abide by that.

And that's all I'm trying to say.

No one, I I take slight exception to the fact that someone said it was a sharply worded email.

It wasn't.

It's simply provided and it was cut and pasted the language in 3.19.

You don't agree with it, there's a process, and that has nothing to do with me.

But in the meantime, that is the law that's been handed to you that you have agreed by taking office to abide by.

Yeah, you can't pick and choose which laws you like and don't like.

No one can.

So I'm just I'm not trying to be adversarial.

I'm I'm not at all.

I mean, we want to all get along.

If you want to call me up and look at something, you councilwoman Graziano, you mentioned it a couple weeks ago.

Want to come and look at the law books?

Come on in.

Come on in any time.

I get that, but I'm sorry, but I will we're back to me working 40 hours.

Hold on.

You right now you're not calling people council councilwoman vice president who has a floor.

Yeah, we're I'm not trying to have a hold on, hold on, yeah.

Hold on.

I'm not trying to just keep order.

Relax.

We're all gonna relax a little bit.

You're gonna ask questions, and I'm gonna go.

No, I'm all set with that.

But I think what everyone here on council is trying to do is they want to fix things, they want to work for the city.

And sometimes it's difficult if somebody sees something on social media and they want to go help that department, they may not think to go through the chief of staff.

If I see a comment on a playground with trash everywhere, I actually get in my car and go there and clean it.

Should I reach out to the chief of staff on a weekend and say, hey, by the way, I'm gonna go clean the playground.

Would you just let the department head know?

That's not that's councilwoman heroin.

That that just respectfully, that's not directing a uh department.

No, but that is not directing a department head.

All I'm talking about is directing a department head to do something on your behalf, right?

If it's informational, as it says in there, no problem.

But if it's something more than just informational, then it does border on a violation of the charter.

And that's that's it.

I mean, you know, and again, um I was directing a councilwoman uh Graziano, I'm not trying to pick on it.

That's informational.

Sure, no problem, right?

Come on in the office and look at what you're looking to look at, right?

I I get what you no, no, no, I get what you're saying.

I promise I'll call on you.

Yeah, I get and I'll address it in one second if you actually want to ask it, I'll address it.

But that's all with we're trying to say.

No one's I'm not here trying to pick any type of fight or direct or saying anyone did anything wrong.

I'm just saying this this came across my department's desk as there were some concerns that there were people overstepping their boundaries, and there were concerns from department heads that they may or may not be being told what to do or asked to do stuff that they weren't required to do.

And so it goes right back to the charter provision.

And and that's all.

And I just you know, again, we're all we're getting along so well.

I I want to keep it that way.

No, I I think we're and I'm gonna call because you listen, you I know you've been waiting to speak.

I'm gonna go back to councilman when you're done.

I'm gonna are you done?

Uh well, but I just want to be I want to be crystal clear on this.

You we are we are getting off what's written, and we're getting off what's written here.

So I'm gonna be real clear first.

So hold on, let me finish.

All right.

This has to do with not you going to the playground, not you going to the senior center.

It's directing, it's me saying I want to have a meeting with the director.

I have a right to go to the senior center.

I do.

You have a right to go to the playground.

I do.

Councilman Graziano has a right, and I have a right to go to the ice rink.

However, if I want to meet with the director of the ice rink, I gotta go through Mr.

Morini.

If I want to, if I want to talk to the playground, the guy the head of the playground, either I'm gonna pull him here before, or I'm gonna ask the director to speak to him.

As a citizen, I didn't lose my rights.

And I think that's where you were going, but it got kind of convoluted there.

I didn't lose my rights as a citizen.

All right.

But if I wanna and basically allocate some of the people who are subversive to the mayor, and that's subordinate to the mayor, right?

Then I'm gonna have to go through the mayor's office and probably director Moretti or someone in the administrative offices.

So, no, you can go to the playground.

You can do all those things.

That has nothing to do with this charter.

This has to do with allocating resources, and that's where it is.

So, or directing as as councilman Benano says.

So I can go to any of these places I could before I was elected, but I can't tell like, but where you said, I probably can't call, I probably can't call a director and say I want to meet with you, right?

Because then they think I'm just a regular citizen.

And the truth is I'm an elected official who did swear an oath to the charter to the constitution, the Rhode Island Constitution and the charter.

Um, so just with that in mind, I that you we are going a little bit farther away from where it is.

You're not that limited.

We might have taken a little offense.

Well, you might have taken, I'm sure, but I just want to make sure we're saying it's kind of saying the right thing and said that's actually in this provision.

And for now, okay.

Councilman Graziano.

Um, I'm not gonna I guess what I'm saying.

Not bullying your part of the rest of the Oh my God.

I think it's an opinion on what direction is.

That was my point.

I'm I'm sorry.

So, like, and then my other point was I get that I agreed to uphold it.

I am just making a statement that if I go back to being a resident, I can just call the department head and meet with them about any agenda item and get the information without calling the administration.

So I'm just saying that I understand the two different houses.

I'm saying maybe it's better for me to be a resident, and that way I can get the information more efficiently and more directly than if I'm a council person because I can't go get information on something here unless I go through director Moretti and then request it, and then four days later, I can maybe meet with somebody on whatever day they can meet.

So, like I I'm just saying the efficiency and the things that I need from my agenda knowledge may not happen in a timely manner.

Um, I guess that's kind of all I'm saying.

So citizen Graziano can do it, could kind of fly under the radar and do those things.

I that 100% true.

Yeah, I'm not saying I changed my oath.

I'm just explaining that.

And then I guess my other thing I'm saying about going to uh I don't I I can't drive to somebody's place of work, so I can just public records request it, and then you can just give it to me.

So that's what I sounds like I have to do.

You good, Director?

Could I mind?

Yeah.

I'll be I'm I'd be nice.

You're gonna be nice.

I'd be nice.

No, I I fully understand what you're saying.

I'm gonna go all the way around you.

And I think we're in concert with with with it.

I just want to give perspective.

I'll I'll be quick.

I think the analogy here is say that say myself or the administration is that you're your general contractor, and they're at your house.

I'm I'm providing all the subs, and the electricians there, and you want to move this to that.

Well, you don't necessarily talk to the electrician to move it because it's contract asked to know what's going on, because he's in charge of the the operations and the costs, etc.

etc.

So what I would do is I go to the general contract, I don't go to the electrician.

That that's kind of the analogy, what I'm trying to say in terms of the operations.

In terms of separating this, this is if there's any informational stuff, feel free.

If there's just information, you want to speak with someone, if it has to do with policy operations of the city, that's a different story about sitting down with meetings.

But to go in to say, yeah, just informational fine.

If uh in fact, I think councilman Anderhott knows best.

You send me a quick note.

I said, Andy, it you know, pardon the casual in this, but go right ahead.

Just don't even bother us with that.

And that's really what it is.

It was a courtesy.

So but that was it, but no intention whatsoever.

Um, but in terms of blocking any information.

Um, the one thing is substance over form.

The word is I know we're all honing in on the word direct.

Um you can look up in the dictionary with all due respect, councilman, and what the definition of direct means, but in reality, it's a substance over form.

If you're putting someone you're saying, hey, uh director of what or employee of such a department.

Uh, can you meet with me?

I want to meet with you, and can you uh can you do this?

You're not directing the person to do it, but can you?

You're asking a question.

Well, that's kind of substance over form, you're really directing.

So I just want to kind of put that in perspective.

But lastly, I just want to the whole thing about perspective is let's let's recall over the last couple of years or the time this council's been here before.

Look at all the times the administration does cooperate with you on a day-to-day basis.

I think you see us responsive.

I think highly responsive.

We're not perfect, and we may have not responded to everything, nor as timely as as you would wish, as timely as we would wish, given what we have going on.

But we want to get the same job done, and we want to help you out with your constituents.

That is the spirit of this thing.

So I hope you please reflect on all the the good this administration does try to cooperate with you when you do have your requests and and to meet, et cetera, et cetera.

So just to have that in perspective, I understand that was the wording was a very legal that I saw that email was very legal, and I can see where you have that little pushback in your nose or a little rubbed the wrong way, and I get that.

But uh again, just we don't want things to change.

Happy to help, happy to respond, and not looking to block, but there could be I I don't want to I won't be any more verbose than they already explained.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director.

I'm gonna go right around again and yes, councilwoman Missouri.

So basically, if we need something done, just go through the administration.

It's about right.

Yes.

Uh if you just have a quick, if you just have a like a simple informational question, feel free just to contact the part and hey, you tell me about this program, this and that, but to say, hey, I'd like to talk to you about this program.

Maybe we should operate it differently.

Then I'd say, can you just give me a shout?

Okay, thank you.

Please.

Thank you, councilwoman.

I don't see I Richard, is your hand up?

I can't see.

No?

Okay, councilmanager.

All right, so I'm gonna try to dumb this down, director, so we all understand what's going on.

We have the power through 13.17 to basically call up the chief of police and say, hey, how many cars are down?

But I can't ask them how many cars do we need.

Is that what I'm hearing here?

I'm just I'm trying to dumb this down so everybody understands what because I think we're going way off the rails there.

Give me a real literature.

That's a pretty that's a pretty good example because I think there could be disagreements.

The chief might feel some way, but the mayor might feel differently.

Well, the mayor's responsible for the budget, and the police chief's gonna advocate for his cause.

So, yeah, that could be a conflict that was not that I had that conversation.

Of course, you never would.

But yeah, it's it's always also to avoid that, put them in an uncomfortable.

If you think if you perceive you're putting them in uncomfortable position, whether it be a top, but I'm ahead of an employee, that's a good acid test to it.

You know, put yourself in their spot.

Do you think they'd be comfortable?

Well, like I want to say for the record, every time I've had a question, I've reached out to the administration, they have given me the authority on 97.5% of the times to talk to whatever director.

So I do thank you, Director, for promptly responding.

And I think um I'm all set.

Okay, councilman Benano.

Thank you.

I I like I said previously, I don't want to make a fight where there isn't one.

Um, I think that the tone of this conversation is uh much preferred in relationship to the tone of the email, where the final line of the email said that uh, you know we have to follow the charter, including when not limited to asking written permission from the chief of staff to speak speak with department heads or city employees.

I just want to say that I'm gonna go by what this conversation has been and not what that email said.

If I have a question, I'm gonna ask it.

Um, I'm gonna be very careful not to direct anybody or or even uh ask a question that could be perceived as direction.

And if I want to direct something, I will go through the administration.

Um, but if I have a question about someone's opinion or or something, part of our job is to check and balance everything else, as is part of the mayor's job, part of the administration's job is to check and balance us.

That's how government works.

So um nobody's got absolute power, and I don't think anybody thinks that they have absolute power.

Um, but it's our job to make sure that you know we don't or anybody else.

I also want to say, I'd be remiss if I didn't say that since especially since Director Renzuli has come on and began working in the mayor's office.

My requ my requests anyway are answered so fast, I don't even know if she read the whole email.

Uh and the I it's impossible if that she read it and got me the right answer.

I don't know how she does it.

And that's meant to be a compliment.

You know, her she's very fast and gets us the answers very quickly.

Um, so you know, I hope that she is as valued uh as we feel as though she is.

Um, so she's doing a fantastic job.

I just want everybody to know that uh publicly.

But like I said, I'm I'm still gonna ask questions if I have questions.

It's not my intent to circumvent any authority that anybody may have.

Um, and I hope it's nobody else's intention is circumvent any authority that we as council people have.

I think everybody's kind of good, and I'm glad that the tone of this conversation is a lot different than the tone of the of the email we got.

I mean, I hate I don't want to fight with you, uh solicitor Malay, but that that was a strongly worded email.

Um, and it it not that you know my feelings weren't hurt, but I was like, hey, wait a minute.

You know, we have we have some authority too, and um and we don't want to step on the administration's authority, and I I don't want the administration's authority, no matter who's you know, in the administration, I don't want my authority taken away from them either.

So check and balance is where it's at.

I've talked about balance a lot.

Let's maintain that balance.

Thank you.

Thank you, councilman.

I'll just yeah, just you know, I I I agree with not directing the work, but I think you know, gathering all the information.

I think the analogy of talking to the police department of you know how many cars do you need, but then also here in the administration side too.

I think it just helps us make better decisions with gathering all the information, but clearly not you know, swaying a decision or anything like that.

But I think it also we're accountable to the taxpayers, and I think it also helps us with those conversations with the taxpayers, and that would just be my perspective, but but clearly not directing anymore.

Thank you.

Thank you, councilman.

Councilwoman, no, no, just press the button.

Don't worry about it.

You're good.

You good, council vice president.

No, no, not at it this time.

Okay.

Fair enough.

Listen, then I'm gonna I'm gonna finish it up.

I would tend to agree that the conversation is 10 times better than the email.

All right, you you may not listen.

Sometimes the written word sounds a lot, you don't get any context from the written word.

And the context I got was censure a little bit, right?

Maybe it wasn't intended.

I'll talk to the author at some point and see how he intended it.

Um but I I put it on there, not to open up a can of worms, but because I thought a discussion of this matter would would help out.

I think I do believe what you're saying, Director.

You do want to help.

You always have been very helpful.

Whenever I called, I I do believe and I certainly agree that uh Director Renzuli's been very helpful in you know, bridging that that gap between the council and the administration, and I do want that to continue.

Um but I think the specifics, like when you have specific scenarios, it definitely it definitely helps out because everything is open to interpretation, unfortunately.

That's why we have lawyers.

Um, but thank you for this.

And I know it took a little longer than we expected, but I think it was uh a beneficial conversation.

And with that, I'm looking at my agenda, and there is no more business before this council.

So at that time at this time, I'll please ask for a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

Second, all in favor, please signify by saying aye.

I oppose, signify by saying nay.

The eyes have it.

The motion carries.

Thank you.