Works committee meeting to order.

It's Wednesday, July first, twenty twenty six.

We're going to um at six, eleven p PM.

Wow.

Um great.

Thanks everyone for coming.

Can we get the roll, please?

Councilman Graziano.

Present.

Councilman Anduvoir?

Present.

Councilman Vizeri.

Present.

Councilman Capapiano?

Present.

Councilman Bernano?

Here.

Council Vice President Horroyan?

Present.

Council President Wall.

Here.

Okay.

Um, I'm going to ask um if there's any objection to taking um the agenda items out of order.

Okay, seeing none, I'm going to move forward.

Um, approval of meeting minutes this evening.

There are none.

And I'm going to offer public comment first.

Um, we are going to do public comment in chambers this evening.

Um, you have to come up to the podium, um, state your name and address for the record, and you will have four minutes to comment.

This is for docketed items only.

This is for items that are on the agenda.

Um, so anyone in chambers who'd like to come up and speak on docketed items, please come up.

Good evening.

Yeah.

My name is Robert Ferry.

I live at two four two six Cranston Street in Cranston.

Thank you for allowing me to speak tonight.

I'm here to speak on the right of way on fifteen twenty-five Cranston Street.

I am not here to make friends, nor am I here to help anyone on their campaign tonight.

It just so happens to be that there's a there was a fountain on the right of way at fifteen twenty-five Cranston Street in front of St.

Mary's Church.

So he decided that it would become part of the Knightsville rehabilitation project.

About a month ago, when construction started in that part of 1525 Cranston Street right away, I had four different people call me up and ask me a simple question.

Is the city paying for that fountain?

I said, I really don't know if the city's paying for that fountain.

So I looked into it, made a few phone calls.

Sure enough, I found out that the city was paying for the fountain.

And you know how furious I was about that.

I contacted the media.

Perhaps you saw my interview with Brian Crandall.

I think we all know why this fountain project the city is paying for.

Okay.

Our taxpayers deserve better.

I don't know why all of you have been silent about this.

I certainly haven't been silent about it.

Especially you, Richard Campo Piano, who's on the Holy Name Society.

I think you're even the president of the Holy Name Society of that church.

This is about right and wrong.

This is not about politics.

The bottom line is that people are now watching because we're fed up with this frivolous wasteful spending, and that's all it is.

How can you sit there and think that the city paying for a fountain in front of a church is the right thing to do?

How can anybody believe that?

There's 35 churches in this city.

Should they all get a fountain?

30 seconds.

This is not personal.

This is not politics.

This is just measuring right from wrong.

You may say it's too late.

You may say there's nothing you can do about it.

There is something you can do about it.

You can speak up and you can say it's wrong because you know it's wrong and grow a backbone.

Stop letting the mayor tell you what to do.

It's wrong that we're putting that fountain in front of that church, and you'll never convince me or any of these people otherwise.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else who would like to speak on docented items?

Please state your name and address.

John Paglarini, 7 Camden Lane.

Four minutes.

Understood.

Uh here this evening on the Verizon matter.

Um, we were at the council meeting, I believe it was the 16th, and they were informed to give us notice.

We all received notice, however, it's defective notice.

It went to Cranston, Massachusetts, but we got it.

Um, however, it did not state the date and time of this meeting, it just said, oh, by the way, we're doing a construction project on your street.

It did not have this meeting as being noticed.

So we have three out of 33 homes here this evening because it's defective.

Additionally, I spoke with Rhode Island Commerce because the documents that were provided to us have a box on the first page that say this is part of the subsidized broadband grant.

This is a federal grant that Rhode Island Commerce signed a contract with with the United States Treasury.

Verizon was awarded the contract, and it's supposed to serve underserved or areas that have no internet.

Our street is currently serviced by Cox Cable and T-Mobile.

Commerce says they did not do a speed test on our street.

This is for uh streets that have less than a hundred megabytes of upload and download speed.

Last speed test I did, I was in excess of 200 at my house.

This is wrong.

This is about a grant that should be going to underserved areas where children need to do their homework.

We've got Cox Cable.

Yes, their price is outrageous.

We have the option of T-Mobile, and it would be nice.

And there's some residents that want Verizon on our street.

It's wrong that this grant is being utilized.

If they want to come in and pay for it, and the city approves it, well, there'll be other neighbors speaking about what happens when you dig up our driveways and everything in a mature street that's now seven years old.

Uh and this could have been planned properly then.

But to utilize for the city to approve this request is making you part and parcel with knowledge that this is wrong.

This grant should not be used on a street that has 33 $1 million houses on it.

It just it's it doesn't make any sense.

This belongs in another area.

This you don't look at the districts that are really poor in Cranston.

It doesn't belong on our street and we're currently served.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else would like to speak on docketed items?

Name and address, please, in four minutes.

Thank you.

My name is Thomas Wojk, and I live at Levin Hall Place in Cranston.

Um a couple weeks ago, I attended a ceremony at Stillhouse Cove.

It was a dedication for a beautiful uh marble bench that was put there to commemorate the um participation of Cranston and what took place at Stillhouse Cove regarding enslaved people that were captured.

Um is this for a docketed item?

Yes.

Okay.

It is come to find out that the bench was paid for by donations.

Obviously, it doesn't come to the cost of 173,000.

But people who cared about it really cared about that, came up with the money to pay for it.

And then a few weeks later, I hear about us spending 173,000 for a fountain in front of a Catholic church.

And I said, How the hell did that happen?

Our budget is broke.

We increased tax rates and revenues on all of our citizens, but yet we found 173,000 to pay for a broken down fountain.

It irritates me that the fountain wasn't taken care of, and now it has to be rebuilt.

Whose fault is that?

Who's gonna take care of it after this?

Who is gonna own it after this?

This council has lost credibility.

You didn't take responsibility at all for the budget, and you're not taking responsibility, and you're looking the other way for this.

I agree with Mr.

Ferry.

You may not be able to do anything about this, but your silence is very loud.

It says a lot.

First of all, it says something about your lack of integrity, your lack of moral courage to speak out against this mayor.

Your silence is deadening.

Your credibility is lost, and I will never vote for any of you for whatever position you should run ever, ever again.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Name address, four minutes.

I am here also to speak about the uh Verizon document item.

Uh, in addition to the two issues that Mr.

Paglarini brought up about the uh insufficient public notice and the improper use of the grant funds.

I would also like to point out that within the plans that are submitted by Verizon uh that they have inaccurate details, which were relayed to me through a Verizon engineer directly through email, um, where they were he intended to use a less invasive means and methods to accomplish this work.

Uh a project manager or someone of that sort from Verizon has sense reverse course on that, told me he could not guarantee those methods.

Uh so right now we are not in agreement, or does the uh his what the engineer is telling us in agreement with the plans that are submitted to you?

Um there is also a lack of detail uh as far as how they're going to protect the nearby wetlands uh and the wetland buffer zone that is nearby, and also the traffic management plan.

They're going to trench across that street four times without any management of traffic.

That road is only 22 feet wide and is uh very tight to get through as is.

I don't think that any fire truck would get through under those circumstances.

So for that reason I ask you to deny.

Thank you.

Chambers want to speak on docketed matters.

Address four minutes, please.

Sure.

My name is Ryan Mean Wright.

I reside at 31 Cedarwood Drive in Cranston.

Um I don't like public speaking at all, but I felt as though I needed to be here just because I was outraged when I saw the article about we're using city, our city tax dollars.

While this city is in a financial crisis to pay for a fountain at a church, these that's separate.

The church could fundraise for that other things, but it should not be our tax dollars, especially when when a whole budget crisis is going on, threatening to take money away from the senior center, CCAP, public schools.

Like I just I just think it's asinine, and I just hope that somebody takes accountability, someone has the courage to speak up, and somebody uses their fiduciary duty to protect the taxpayers at Cranston.

That's all I can say.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, um, we're going to go to oh.

No.

Okay, we're moving to online.

Is there anyone online, Tom?

A reminder to please raise your hand.

Jarrett Goodwin.

State your name and address, please.

Anyway, four minutes.

Hello, Jared Goodwin, 40 Horizon Drive, Cranston, uh, district four.

Um, I just also wanted to um mention the the um the insufficient funds for this project um for the fountain project.

Um, and also um I also wanted to comment on um the the pool issue.

Um we need to figure out how um to manage that like this like this seems unreasonable.

Um for sorry, excuse me.

Um pool pool item is is related to rentals only.

Yes.

The the the the pool rental issue, the pool rental concern.

Okay, okay, go ahead on that.

Thank you.

Okay, so uh I I just want to make sure that um like we're we realize how we're going to um govern that um or or police that um from my perspective um and I apologize I recently had a stroke, so I I need an extra few minutes.

Um, but like the the pool issue um concern.

Um I don't know how we're going to police that, especially considering I'm from district four, um, and we have a lot of pools.

Um I don't personally own a pool, but um, we have a lot of pools.

Um, and that uh there are going to be uh um a lot of uh you know people like in the pools, like you you you don't I don't know how we're going to police that activity um to be in the pool, um like at certain hours, like so I think that should be left up to law enforcement.

Um that's what I have to say about that.

So thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Um is there anyone else online who would like to speak on docketed items?

There is no other public comment online.

Okay, I'm gonna do last call.

What okay?

Um, we're gonna close public comment.

Okay, and we are going to head to committee business matters carried over.

This is for the petition one a seven Y A2G from Verizon, New England requesting permission to replace one two-inch conduit, approximately 4,000 feet and 19 hand holes starting at pole P6 from the corner of Hope Road in Camden Lane, and then continue along Camden Lane and Kendall Court.

Um I put in a request to the solicitor's office.

Um I don't know if the solicitor wants to come up and answer the question that regarding notification from Verizon.

What's the question?

So what are the requirements for Verizon to notify abutters?

There are none.

Okay, so they so Verizon was doing it at as a courtesy to the residents.

They do not have any requirements under this.

All I can tell you is from a legal standpoint, there's no legal requirement under state law or under our ordinances for um notice to abutters.

What Verizon chose or chooses to do that I I can't answer.

Okay.

Well, I'm gonna go ahead and say I appreciate um the members of the public that came up and spoke this evening.

Um I absolutely have concerns for inaccurate plans and construction methods.

Um I do work in the field, and it's concerning that they are proposing to do construction in a certain way, and now um it's being told to us that that way is possibly not applicable to this project.

Um I also am a wetland scientist, so I am upset that they did not propose any erosion controls that should be under their best management practices um uh operation and maintenance plan.

So I'm I'm sad to hear about that.

And I do support um the public comment that I got this evening.

Um yes.

Uh yes, go ahead.

I'd like to make a motion to deny this.

Second.

So this is for low income areas, not for million dollar house.

All right, we're gonna go to discussion.

Um Vice President Heroyan.

Go ahead.

I think it's really sad that this is put in for lower income areas, and then we're told there's million dollar houses.

We have sections of the city where people cannot afford to be connected to the internet.

So I'm wholeheartedly denying this, and I'm asking everyone to think about this.

Okay, Councilman Andreha, saw your name your hand up first.

Thank you, madam chair.

I'm gonna reference to whatever councilman Ritz, I believe that's your area, so I will support whatever you your decision and whatever you decide is best for that community.

Yeah, um, councilman Capapiano.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, I agree with both my colleagues.

Um, this wasn't done right from the beginning, very beginning, and uh, we very rarely get um constituents out to uh argue against such a project like this.

So uh I don't think it's right for the community, and I don't think it's right for them.

So I will be joining you in in denying this.

Okay, councilman Panano.

I would like if it's okay with the chair.

I know I think there's somebody from Verizon here.

And if they come up, I would like to ask some questions about that grant and see what the issue is.

I mean, it's I I believe what the constituents are saying, but uh my question, I guess to them would be if the grant is for lower uh I forgot what terminology attorney Peglarine used, but if it was essentially for lower income areas with without access to fast internet, why would Verizon want to put it in this neighborhood and use that money to put it in this neighborhood?

That's question one.

And question two would be if they pay for it themselves, you know, then what?

You know, what how could we get the neighborhood appeased as well as Verizon doing it the right way?

Um so I would like to ask them that question if possible.

If there's no objection from the committee, um I will ask Verizon to come out.

We can have a motion to uh if you're gonna do that to reopen public hearing then.

Can I get a motion to reopen public comment?

So move to second any discussion.

Can I get the roll, please?

Councilwall and Graziano?

Yes, Councilman Andy Bar?

Yes.

Councilman Vazier, yes.

Councilman Campo Piano, Councilman Bonano?

Yes, Council Vice President Heroyan?

Yes.

Council President Wall.

Yes.

Can I ask something before we begin?

Sure.

To the solicitor.

Seeing that we opened up public comment, does that mean we can't ask questions back and forth?

Well, he's from Verizon, I understand.

Yeah, I think you can ask questions.

That would be permissible because he's from I'm assuming these are the applicant technical questions.

Uh okay, thank you.

Okay.

Thank you.

Can you state your name and address for the record?

Yes.

Name is Ross Billadu, uh, 21 Oxford Road, Mainsfield, Massachusetts.

Okay, so did you hear Bonano's questions and are you able to answer them, or would you like him to restate the questions?

I can I can answer an extent, sure.

Um, my understanding the way this was presented to me is that this grant is yes, it is to build out communications, etc.

Broadband in lower income, lower served communities, but it also builds out these types of projects in communities that don't have a choice for high speed internet broadman.

So it's also my understanding that those areas are selected by the state, maybe not necessarily that broadband initiative, but some state level has selected and gave them gave Verizon direction to pursue this project.

Um if I may through the chair.

Um thank you for answering.

At this point in my career, I'm kind of like a proof guy.

Like I would want to see something that states that because and not that I don't believe you.

Um I'm sure you're telling me what you've been told.

It's a question of when somebody tells somebody who tells somebody who tells us I I want to see it backed up.

So um the second part of my question was how do we how do we work this with the neighborhood?

Because I understand there's a balance here.

There's always a balance in government, right?

What the what the public wants and um what's best for the community, as well as you know, I don't want to, I don't want to be Cranston is closed for business.

That's not that's not I wanna I don't want to champion that either.

Um so how do we get to a point where the the neighborhood the neighborhood is gonna be satisfied, Verizon's gonna be satisfied.

That is a great question.

I'm not sure I can answer that standing here right now in front of you.

I'm not the kind of person who's gonna you know broker deals, et cetera, between private parties, cities.

I'm gonna represent rentative to bring these matters before a board and get them approved, denied, etc.

So I I unfortunately can't answer that specific question.

I'm gonna offer a suggestion, and then I'm I'll okay.

Um you're going.

Yeah, I'm gonna offer a suggestion if that's right.

Yeah.

Um I was the chair of the zoning board for I think four years, and I was on it for seven before running for office.

And when we when we dealt with these types of situations where um the residents and in most cases it was a developer or somebody who was requesting a variance or approval for something were at odds.

Instead of outright denying something, I always encouraged either the the representatives, attorneys or the representative themselves to organize a community meeting and essentially properly notice these folks that were there are only three here.

Um have a community meeting somewhere and discuss it with them.

Have your PR people come in.

You know, you're the technical dude, right?

You come in and explain what's going on.

I don't necessarily feel as though the folks in that neighborhood do not want Verizon on their street.

I my feeling and what I'm hearing is they want to know what's going on, when it's gonna happen, and how it's going to affect their property.

And if they have that information, and if we have that information, we can make a better judgment on what's going to happen.

So I don't necessarily think we should approve it today.

I don't necessarily think we should deny it today either.

Because if we deny it, you gotta wait a long time.

And I don't think that is what I really don't think that's what these folks are are wanting, just outright deny it.

So I think we have to vote on the main motion first, but my uh selected path will be to table it again, have a community meeting with these folks, right?

Properly notice them, and you know, three people show up to the community meeting and you can tell that to us later, and nobody really gives a hoot what's going on in the neighborhood.

All right, fine, then we know that, right?

But if 49 people show up and uh and they and they give you your opinion, and that and when and when we discuss it again, you know, there's there's a clear path.

I think that's what we're trying to accomplish.

Everybody just be satisfied.

Um, and also I want the proof.

If we if if this if that's the road that ultimately this council decides to go on, I want to see the proof and the grant and how it was determined that this neighborhood qualifies for a grant for underserved uh areas, because that doesn't compute for me in my broadband up here.

All right.

So um that's that's my suggestion.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, I I would say my concerns with these petitions that come before us, and you'll you'll hear me next one is that we're not provided with enough information to make uh informed decision.

Um I think this is one of those cases.

Um I would love to review your best management practices and how the proposed work is going to be accomplished.

So that is definitely one of my issues is that I need a complete package of exactly what the construction entails.

Um I'm looking over, looks like councilman Ritz would like to say something as well.

I just want to say just uh just a couple things.

So this is my area, so I've been uh getting the calls on it besides these besides these uh three folks out of here.

I think I total seven folks that that reached out to me and like councilman Bernal said they're they're okay with having it there.

They just have some some questions which were stated tonight, concerns about the driveways.

Um, if they cut into it, how that would be there.

They're just looking for clear things.

I had a similar thought of maybe uh we could do like a little community meeting there.

It's a unique small plaque with 33 houses in there.

We could quickly probably notify all 33 of them and we could have a conversation with them too.

But I also, you know, I feel bad to kind of be in vilified here a little bit.

Uh we do what I mean.

Most of the most of the folks there are in favor of it.

It's just they do have general concerns of how it'll look.

And that's a newer neighborhood, so they're concerned about the aesthetic of that neighborhood.

Thank you.

Um there.

So maybe like a little tap tap.

Um, President Wall.

Thank you, uh, Madam Chair.

I would tend to probably lean into the same idea that Councilman Anderhar is uh generally when there's something controversial in someone's ward, I kind of lean into the person who represents that ward.

But if I'm hearing councilman Ritz correctly, Councilman, were you were you inclined to continue this and have uh uh a meeting of some sort, like councilman Bonano suggested?

Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah, I'm in favor of if you'd be open to that, we could have a meeting with the the residents there.

Like I said, it's a small group, so we could probably notify them pretty quickly, even door to door and continue it for now, even if it's this meeting or the next meeting and go from there too.

I think the the grant also raises some some concerns, you know, Councilman Harorian had some some concerns with that with denying it, which which I'm in favor of too.

But I think if we could flush that out a little bit more and talk to all the residents there and answer some of their questions, but the folks here tonight had technical ones, some of the other folks had uh more kind of uh entry little questions there about the impact on the driveway and most pieces.

So let me just finish up.

Um the the grant the yeah, and I wasn't aware as uh vice president Heroyan uh pointed out that this is designed for low-income uh housing.

And you can't you reiterated that in your comments that this was a grant for low, I mean, how do you reconcile million dollar plus homes and low income together?

So that's a good question.

You said it was recommended by the state.

So I mean that's a that's a question that when you do have that community meeting that you probably should should come together.

So I'll favor whatever councilman Ritz says.

I uh relent my time.

So sorry, just to think I I think continuing is the best choice that I would say right now, and then if it gets to that point, we can always deny it for the meeting.

So so two things.

If we still have public comment open, I'll I'll I I'll take you.

If we still have public comment open after I call on Councilman Anduhar, I would actually like a one representative from um that area to come up and see if that is an appropriate solution for now.

Um, but I'll take Councilman Anduhar.

Thank you, madam Chair.

I I think what's going on here is the state has a radius map that probably expands a hundred miles.

And with that hundred miles, Verizon found the loophole to find this area that has houses the size of square foot lots on in my ward.

So I think that's what they're using to get into the neighborhood.

So I would I applaud what uh councilwoman Heroy's doing because she's uh advocating for my ward.

Um the less fortunate in my ward, but at the same time, um, you know, I do have to respect what councilman Ritz wants to do.

So councilman, whatever you decide to do, I will support.

Council okay, Vice President Horon.

I just wanted to be on record.

This is the second time Verizon's been here.

We were not provided with the grant or the information.

This is for lower income areas.

There is nothing low income about Camden, as we're sitting here tonight.

I just looked up the houses.

The least appraised one is close to 600,000.

Um, I don't know if the state did a bad job.

I don't know if it was Verizon.

I am against continuing this.

And I'll vote against continuing this.

We have plenty of low-income areas in this city, and the communication should have been better.

Somebody from government relations maybe should have reached out to everybody after the first meeting.

Um if those people wanted this in Verizon, they pay to have it up there.

They don't need to use grant money to pay for it.

We have plenty of low income money that people that can't provide for their own kids to have internet to do their school work.

I'm fully against this.

Continuing.

Okay.

Anyone else on the council before uh councilman Capabiano?

Thank you, Chair.

Um, I hear the count I agree with Councilman Bonato and uh Councilman Ritz.

Um, maybe if we crafted the um motion to say table it until such time as we satisfy the neighbors' needs and also they also satisfy that we're not using up the whole grant for just this one area.

Maybe it's a portion of it, and then we can still focus on other areas.

I don't know if we can do that, but I hate to get rid of it all together.

If um if that would help, so okay, Councilman Bonano.

I just have a technical question.

So are we let's say for the sake of argument that there was a motion on the table to approve it.

Are we approving the project being done in the street and they're cutting up the roads and all this other stuff?

Or we approving all the back part of it, like the grant and everything else.

How they how they pay for it, I don't I don't know that we have jurisdiction over that.

So my question is, you know, what what would we what is what is before us?

So my opinion, and we can have the solicitor come up, is that we're approving the construction and the allowance of working in the right-of-way.

Yeah, the financing has nothing to do with this.

This is simply it's a permit, like any other permit, just to um perform construction on the road.

But is there criteria set around this that we need to stay within certain parameters?

Only it's only within your discretion, and um, I believe it's presented to public works, so whatever technical requirements they have, they'll review it.

Okay.

Um if we I'm sorry, I just have one follow-up.

If we deny it, we're denying the work.

So we we there's gonna be a certain amount of time that needs to elapse before it can be reconsidered.

Right?

If I could if I could intervene, um, just on a procedural note.

I know a motion, a main motion was made to deny, I believe.

I believe there was a second discussion started.

I don't believe, at least I didn't hear any votes one way or the other.

Okay.

If the matter is to be continued, if someone is a mind of a mind to do that, that would be a subsidiary motion.

That has to be made now and voted on, depending on the outcome.

Um, you don't need to reach the main motion until the next time this is on.

So basically a motion to continue would be in order now because you're gonna lose that.

If you start to vote on the denial and it is denied, then you either got to do reconsideration or you're gonna wait a year or whatever.

Is it is it 12 months?

Yes, right.

That's the requirement.

Right, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I'll go ahead and make a motion to um continue.

Hold on.

Yeah, so no truck.

Yeah, that's fine.

Fails.

Okay.

Um councilwoman Vazierri.

So if we do deny it.

Hello, can you hear me in this mic?

Yeah, okay.

Um, so if we do deny it, do we lose this totally, or will it go elsewhere in the city?

As far as the work, would it be reassigned to a different location, or is it totally gone?

We're petitioning to do these streets as a part of this project.

Okay, they don't they don't know.

Does this does this this grant was given?

This these streets among many streets across the state.

Does it does that grant money get used elsewhere?

I I have no idea.

Okay.

Does this project get rebuilt in another neighborhood?

Possibly, I have no idea.

Okay, I'm gonna welcome one representative from the area to come up for public comment and speak briefly uh after the um discussion.

Thank you.

Again for the record, John Paglarini.

Um I gotta say, formerly I was the parliamentarian of the Rhode Island State Senate.

That is some acrobatic work.

There's a motion on the floor.

It does not, in my opinion.

You've got to vote on that motion, withdraw that motion, but you can't hear another motion that's gonna supersede it.

I'm sorry.

Um from our perspective, this is not something we want to do all summer.

We don't want to keep having meetings on this.

Are there some neighbors that want Verizon choice?

Absolutely.

Does anybody want their driveway dug up?

Does anybody want their sprinkler systems dug up?

Does anybody want their trees dug up?

No.

Verizon is twice improperly noticed us or failed to notice us.

They haven't done their due diligence as far as the best management practices.

Put us out of our misery and deny it and let them come back in a year.

It's a 54 million dollar grant from the federal government that identified 10 communities.

Tell them it's your preference on the denial that they look at something else in the city of Cranston, but it really shouldn't be our street.

Thank you.

I'm gonna turn to Vice President Horan.

If she's not gonna withdraw her motion, we are gonna take a vote.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Um, can I get a roll call?

Councilman Graziano, yes.

Councilman Andrew Har.

On consent of Councilman Ritz, yes.

Council Warren Vazieri.

Yes.

Councilman Camabiano.

Yes.

Councilman Bernano.

Yes.

Council Vice President Horrian.

Yes.

Council President Well.

Yes.

Okay, thank you.

Motion is it's denied.

Okay, moving on.

Um, request for Rhode Island Department of Transportation for a permit to allow construction within 25 feet of exterior boundaries of a historic cemetery, state farm cemetery number one.

Um, I think Director Correo is here.

He's gonna briefly speak on.

Um, one of the questions that I noted was uh it's sort of similar to Verizon where I have a concern about um this petition because I don't have any information how they're going to determine they're not within 25 feet.

So um I I think I'm gonna be recommending this is continued unless somebody from Rhode Island DOT is here.

If not, I would just like to hear from Director Crayo first.

Thank you.

Good evening, Frank Correo, Director of Public Works.

Uh Madam Chair, members of the council.

I I'm not sure what the Department of Transportation is looking for.

I guess they were not notified, or maybe they did not or were not aware of the fact that they needed to attend this evening's meeting.

I'm sure they would be willing to if we put or the public works committee puts a request out to them to have someone attend the meeting to explain what it is they're doing, why they're asking for this permit, and then based on that, you would be more informed and be able to make a sound informed decision regarding the permit that's being applied right now.

Yeah, I agree with you.

And um I'm gonna solicitor.

Um, I had asked um what the um committee needs to make a decision on this and what potential um legal impacts if the if the cemetery is in fact um impacted, and how we can assure that it's not gonna be impact.

I think we're responsible um by issuing this permit that we need to uh make sure that it's not impacted.

So um, solicitor, thank you.

Yes, so um, I did spend quite a bit of time researching this, and and this is really involved.

We're dealing with a couple of things here.

One is the Rhode Island General Laws, which comes under Title 23, which applies to historic cemeteries uh in general, but there is also um the historical preservation and heritage commission, which has its own rules and regulations, and those rules and regulations are very specific in terms of what an applicant needs to do and present to a city council before a permit uh to alter uh an historic cemetery area can be granted.

It would take me honestly, it would take me an hour to go through everything.

Now, what I was thinking of doing, perhaps, is to send uh to each of you a uh opinion, basically a legal opinion, just highlighting um the basic fundamentals requirements that need to be met, and they are substantial.

And it also involves the involvement not only of this council, but um this requires an archaeological survey.

I don't know if that was done.

Um there's a lot I don't know in terms of what's been submitted.

I would need to see perhaps I could speak with uh the director as to exactly what was submitted because there are requirements that have to be submitted with the application.

I don't know if those requirements were met until I see the application.

So I think it's a good idea to continue this.

It's it's gonna take a lot of um due diligence before I can even give you um an answer.

But the the the magic, if you want to call it that dividing line here, the magic number is 25 feet.

Um, and I can tell you that the concern, the main concern is this because these cemeteries are so old over time through a combination of natural processes and uh human uh intervention, the boundaries of the cemeteries are almost impossible now to define.

So what the state law as well as the commission wants to avoid is and where they came up with 25 feet, I don't know, but they want to make certain that if remains have spread uh beyond the boundaries of the of the cemetery as it was originally established, they don't want those remains disturbed, which is why an archaeological um survey should be done unless the applicant can demonstrate, and I don't know how they're gonna do that without some type of a survey that the area where they're proposing to do the work does not contain uh any type of remains.

So it it it it there's a lot here.

So I appreciate that, and this has been a real concern for me since it's been on our agenda, and I appreciate that.

So if the solicitor could send us all that information, so we have it for the next meeting.

I'm gonna go around and see.

Um I'm gonna take Dan, he said President Wall, you sounded like you wanted a motion to continue.

So I was gonna just make a motion to continue.

Okay, okay.

Yes, second.

Okay, great.

Any discussion?

Okay, um, may I please get the roll?

Councilwoman Graziano, yes, Councilman Andrew Har.

Yes, Councilman Vazieri, yes, Councilman Campo Piano.

Yes, Councilman Venano.

Yes, Council Vice President O'Reillyan, yes, Council President Wall.

Yes.

Thank you.

Okay, new matters before the committee at this time.

There are none.

Um, and on get communications.

Um, the first one on the docket is Council President Wall and Councilwoman Graziano.

Um, we um heard from the public on this um docketed matter.

So this is review of approved contract for reconstruction of the city's right-away at and around 1525 Cranston Street.

This is related to the construction of the fountain.

Um, and I'll I'll I'll even add in the whole right-away.

I think my understanding as one of the directors is going to speak this evening on that.

Hold on.

Uh Council President Wall.

Let me have it seeing we put it on for our communication.

Okay.

We'll speak first, and then we'll okay, great.

Okay, do you want to if it please is the chair?

Yes, go ahead.

Go ahead, Councilman Wall.

All right, thank you.

Um, so I do uh the solicitors here, very good.

Director Corrello is here, very good.

Um when this when this was brought to my attention through a news article, I hadn't even seen it yet, I'll tell you the truth.

Um, but I did go down to see where the fountain was, measure it up, where it's gonna be constructed.

So as it was pointed out, 1525 Cranston Street is where St.

Mary's is in front of that.

Um, there is a fountain, and there has been a fountain, there was a fountain, and I guess some 30 years ago it was installed and it was donated.

We have to go back a little bit and discuss the uh Knightsville re uh revitalization project.

Um this is phase three of the Knightsville revitalization project, and this is a portion of it, the 173,000.

Um the project is paid uh uh the out of two uh funding sources.

All right.

There is a federal grant, which um was pointed out to me was uh 1.9 million dollars, and it was also part of the capital improvement plan from 2025 that was passed by the uh planning commission and recommended for passage by the city council during that budget budget cycle in April of 2025.

The total that was allotted between those two two funding sources was 4.7, 4.7 million dollars.

When it went out to bid and it went before um the board of contracts and purchases, which went out on July the 15th, and it was accepted on July the 22nd of 2025 by unanimous vote.

The bid went to I have the document here somewhere.

Narragansit improvement company for a little more than 3.5 million dollars, which is under what we had from the two funding sources.

Approximately what $800,000 under it.

I point that out for a reason, perhaps we'll get to it later.

All right.

Two concerns have been brought to my attention.

First, the optics of spending a great deal of money, $173,000 on a fountain.

Um certainly certainly an issue, especially down now in our current budget crisis.

The optics, as several people have pointed out, of putting a fountain in front of one church, well, there are, and I will correct uh the speaker in the audience, there's over a hundred churches in the city of Cranston, and that's not counting other houses of worship as well.

So your point is well taken.

Um, but they're actually more than that.

When it was when the optics, when it was approved by the planning commission and the city council in the spring of 2025, we weren't in the middle of a fun uh a budget crisis.

However, there was certainly concerns at that time about the money that was being spent in Knightsville in the same in that project, the stamp concrete and various amenities that made the area look beautiful, but it also points out that there are a lot of sidewalks all over the city that aren't stamped except for maybe uh the CCC thing that they put on in 1935 or 38 during the Great Depression.

And I make that not as a joke, is it as a matter of truth?

So the optics of this always caused a bit of an issue.

However, optics aside, um, when the ground was broken, as I said, there was when the the uh the planning board and the city council approved of those funding sources, um, there was no budget crisis, at least not at that time.

When the board of contracts and purchases, and that happened on the 22nd of July 2025, we were trending at about a 4.9 million dollar deficit.

So the crisis was rearing its ugly head at that point, and it would get worse, and we're in a situation where it's far worse now.

So once again, the optics are still pretty bad.

When the brown ground was broken earlier this year, maybe uh in late spring, we were in the midst of a terrible crisis that I would say in recent history, it's the worst, not the worst Cranston's ever seen.

The question about the optics is this, and I asked my question this, and I'll ask this of the the solicitor piece, right?

Now that we're in the middle of a crisis, is there anything after I point out what we did that we could stop?

Solicitor.

Could we stop this cultist project?

Would you let me go back very quickly?

I'll just reiterate what I said.

It went to the Board of Contracts, uh, and it was given uh from border contracts $3.5 million.

When it went before went before us, we were at about a four four point nine million dollars.

When we broke ground earlier this year, we're well into a terrible budget crisis, and looking at a high tax increase in a terrible year of next year.

My only question legally, does this council have any any authority to stop it?

Well, first of all, I the underlying factual predicate here seems to be, and this is no reflection on your or anyone else here, but that's your version of what took place.

It's very difficult for me or any lawyer to give you a definitive legal opinion in the absence of an established factual record, a timeline of events as to what took place, when it took place, what votes were taken, what approvals were given, because I'm sure the administration may have a different um opinion as to the process that took place.

So I I'm not ducking the question, but I am very, very hesitant, yeah, all the time to answer a legal question when I don't have all the facts.

Let me simplify it a bit if you don't mind, uh Decky.

Once a project has gone out to bid, any project, whatever it is, and it's gone out to bid, and it's gone through the property, it was voted unanimously by the Board of Contracts and Purchases.

And I'm sure I don't know, I have never put in a fountain.

Um, I'm sure the price is fine, all right?

But we're in a terrible place right now.

Do we have the ability, the authority to say stop?

We don't have the money any longer.

Do we have because it's going to increase our debt service?

And that's the question.

It's not to throw throw any kind of curveball towards you.

I I would I would have to say no.

Okay.

I don't believe you have the authority.

I believe once you've appropriated, once you've approved, it becomes an administrative function at that point.

Now, let me qualify it by saying there are exceptions, obviously, to every law and every rule that was ever made, if it could be demonstrated that this constituted or was going to constitute a genuine financial emergency in that situation.

But I I find it hard to fathom that repairing a fountain is going to qualify under that scenario.

If we're talking about, you know, erecting a 10-story office building, uh, you know, maybe different situation.

But I I think once the approvals have been gained, once the procedures have been adhered to that are put in place for a reason.

Um, unless it's something really really of an emergency nature, I don't think you can stop that.

I think that that is clearly now an administrative function.

I think that's up to the administration to decide, not the council.

And um let me ask that question, seeing I got the floor because is is it possible for the administration to stop it?

I mean, because once we gave you the gave the money, it's your authority.

Is that possible?

Is even if maybe I'm asking a question you're not prepared to answer just yet.

I I mean, I'd like to look into it a little bit more.

I would say the mayor is the chief administrative officer of the of the city would always retain that authority.

But what I don't know here is I don't know the interplay here between I I heard anecdotally that there's federal money involved here, there may be federal grants.

I I don't know.

I this is why I'm saying, with all due respect to you and everyone else in here, you know, I'm hearing different things from different people.

It's very hard to form an opinion like that.

I need a firm factual basis, a firm factual predicate before I or anyone, any lawyer can opine.

So I certainly will give you that, and I wasn't looking to put you on the spot.

So looking at the optics and the situation that we're in, and not just the optics, we're in a terrible financial situation.

Um, listen, every every one of us had budgetary crisis, maybe not budgetary crisis in their home, but times when they didn't have as much money as they thought they might have.

And they had to tighten their belt, buy cheaper paper towels, cancel vacations.

Well, the city's in a tough time that maybe they one time had the ability to buy a beautiful fountain.

The truth is today, I would keep the old one.

But that it's that's not a question.

That's a commentary.

As I as I move on to my second, my second item, the other question we have that seemed to come up is this our fountain?

All right, and that's a big question I have because I got emails, and why should we pay?

Why should we pay for a fountain that belongs to St.

Mary's?

I wasn't gonna ask you that one, but go ahead.

Yes.

Guarantee I'm these questions are gonna come up.

The way I see it is this, okay.

I've heard words and phrases thrown around again, anecdotally.

I've heard terms such as right of way.

I'm sorry, John.

A right of way, okay, in the vernacular, is basically a term of art for an easement.

Okay.

Number one, first issue.

I know where this is located, but what is not clear to me, anyway, in the absence of a survey, I know there's a GIS um map here.

Did some b on the screen?

I think.

Yes, it is.

Okay.

On number one, on whose property.

Where does the property line, where does the boundary line go between the city and the church?

That that's number one.

That's gonna be established.

Okay.

Once that's done, the second question becomes Did the church give the city an easement to utilize that portion of the property as a quote unquote right of way.

The next question that has to be asked is is there a recorded instrument that memorializes this?

The next question is is it a pedestrian right-of-way, vehicular right away, is the easement and a pertinent easement.

I don't want to go too far off and with all these technical terms, but I think you could see where I'm going.

These are all questions that beg your question, because your question can't be answered, cannot be answered until all of these um these uh foundational questions are answered.

Okay.

Okay, now let me just finish with one other thought.

Let us suppose that at some point the church said you can use this particular area here for your benefit.

People can walk along it.

Um, so on and so forth.

Well, at that point in time, the easement holder is responsible for the upkeep.

Okay.

Now, to complicate this further, it looks like that this fountain, there's a letter here from a parishioner who donated this.

Now he says he donated it to the city of Cranston.

He did not say he donated it to the church.

He donated it to the city of Cranston.

Whether that's true or not, I have no way of knowing.

Is there anything recorded?

Is there anything in writing from the 1990s?

I don't know.

Taking his words as true, it would seem to me that this if the city has an easement or the city owns that parcel, either way, and that fountain was granted to the city as a gift.

The city ultimately, in my opinion, would be responsible for its upkeep and its maintenance.

Just to use an analog, it's not quite the same thing, but when I was solicitor in Johnston, a taxpayer donated a fire rescue truck to the town, donated it the same way this person donated the fountain.

I don't think anyone here would be surprised to learn that once we took possession of that rescue truck, we were responsible for its maintenance for its repair, so on and so forth.

This is no different, really.

Okay.

Once it's ours, we're responsible for it.

Now I say all of this because I have no idea what the underlying factual predicate is here.

I have heard every version that you can hear.

So I can't give you an opinion.

So this is something everyone should just keep in mind when you discuss this, because I think personally, I think you're gonna go around in circles until you have these questions answered, because it's always gonna come down to well, who owns it, how long, what was the intent?

Yeah.

Well, I certainly listen, I I certainly want them answered.

Um so if it takes today, tomorrow, if we put have to put it back on the docket again, I certainly willing to do it.

Now, I know that the map is up there, and one of the big questions I had is, and no one could tell me this, and I'll ask you this question, maybe uh Director Corral, right away.

How many feed in constitute right away from the street?

How many feet in constitute right away?

Frank Corral, director of public works, the right of way that you are looking at there, right?

And I don't really need a survey to tell me in that line on the GIS could be all a foot or so.

Right.

That was the old Cranston Street.

As you can see, the original Cranston Street went straight through there.

I know from my experiences as being traffic engineered for the state of Rhode Island for 10 plus years, plus being with them for 32 years.

Whenever you had an intersection like that years ago, there were a very wide open wise.

And what they did is they always tried to tee them up the best you can so you can control traffic flow through that area.

I'm quite confident what you're looking at right there is the old Cranston Street, which is the city right of way.

That's city property that was owned.

So should we take a motion to enter this map into the record?

Everybody has it.

I I want to make a motion map into the record that everybody has okay.

So I made a motion to enter the tax map provided to the committee into the record.

And the letter.

Well, letters, yeah.

We can want to enter in both at once because I also am gonna want to do that as well.

Enter the letter as well.

Motion to enter the letter and the map.

Second.

Any discussion?

Can I get the roll, please?

Councilwoman Graziano?

Yes.

Councilman Anduhar?

Yes.

Councilwoman Vazieri?

Yes.

Councilman Campaniano?

Councilman Bernano?

Yes.

Councilwoman Heroyan?

Yes.

Council President Wall.

Yes.

So, in reference to the map, and that was my that was the worry.

Because on a hot afternoon, I went out with my tape measure and I measured 13 feet from the street to the start to the start of the fountain.

At that point, I get a little worried about who does belong, who does this belong to?

I didn't have the aerial footage.

And now that you say it, all that all the discolored kind of a brownish area is the new bricking.

That is correct.

So you're telling me the original line is more of a straight line that would go across from where the steps of the church are, which is about 11 feet from the fountain.

I measured that as well.

So you're telling me that's you believe that that's their property.

And there's nothing I could find in any of our ordinances or our charter that tells me this.

So thank you for clarifying that.

Is it all right to read this into the record as well?

This letter?

Also helping my question because I was concerned is there should be some documentation.

If I gave a gift, I'm sure it cost a lot of money in the 1990s.

I think in the city accepted that gift and knew going forward that they were gonna have to maintain it somewhere in our records.

There has to be something about this.

But if if it if it pleases the chair, I'm gonna read it into the record, and it's already to use his name as well.

Oh, it's is from and he sent this out.

Um Nicole, he sent this out a couple of days ago to okay.

Um so it's from Gene Richman, um, Cranston, Rhode Island.

He says, Dear members of the Cranston City Council, my name is Gene Richmond, and I live on Six Oak Tree Lane in Cranston.

After hearing lots of discussion about the fountain near St.

Mary's, I felt it was important that I share what I remembered about its history.

As best I can recall, sometime in the mid-1990s, neither the city of Cranston nor St.

Mary's Church had the money to put a fountain there.

I thought it would make that corner of the neighborhood a little more beautiful.

So I donated a fountain to the city of Cranston.

I underlined this point to be placed on its property adjacent to the church.

My hope was that it would be there for everyone to enjoy, whether they were walking by, visiting the neighborhood, or coming to church.

I never imagined it would become such a special part of our neighborhood.

Over the years, I've seen people admire it, take wedding pictures, first holy communion, graduation photos, family pictures, and many other special photographs there.

It was meant, it meant a great deal to me to know that that something I was able to give had become part of so many happy memories.

Knowing that people still care about the fountain after all these years tells me it meant something to the community, which was all I ever hoped for.

Thank you for your time.

Now, barring, and I know you you just got it tonight as well as I barring any records we have, would it, and this being the only document, would this suffice to say that that fountain or the land that that fountain is on and the gift was to city of Cranston says that it does not belong to St.

Mary's, it belongs to the city of Cranston.

Well, based on that letter, based on the director's testimony, it in my opinion, in my humble opinion, if that's all you have, I think that's enough.

There's certain certainly nothing uh to contradict that.

I certainly still would like you to research it.

I am gonna continue.

I am gonna ask to continue it.

I'm gonna add it to my communication next time.

Yeah, if like I said research this further.

We'll have to see if an easement was ever recorded there.

Um that pretty much, I mean, it doesn't take away the fact that we're in a terrible budget crisis and we're spending money, and then we should perhaps tighten our belts.

That certainly doesn't, but those are those are two issues that were concerning me.

Um I turn my I turn it back over to the chair.

Thank you.

Um sorry, microphone.

I'm I'm gonna be selfish as the chair.

Um doing a bunch of things right now.

The one comment feel like this is not as complicated as we're trying to make it.

So two things.

Otherwise, there's no way they'd be able to do any right-of-way work in the city.

We would like those plans.

That's number one.

Number two is there's a contract that the city entered into for the work, and there could potentially be a provision that allows the city to make change orders.

That change order could be made by the administration if they saw fit.

I don't know if there's a penalty written into that contract, but it's the contract, and to find out if a change order could be made to um cease any work pertaining to the fountain.

Um, but I also don't know how far along it is and what it would cost the city to do a change order.

So I'm not saying those are good things, but those are things that we need to see.

Um I I think there's two items that we're saying here.

One is um we don't like we don't like the cost, right?

So we're saying that's the number one item.

So that was the item that I'm trying to address for the public.

Number two is do we have to upkeep it?

I think that is a decision that the city has to make.

Do we want to upkeep the fountain and pay 173,000, or can we hold off a little bit?

So I think there's two different things.

Do we want to do the upkeep or we need to hold it off?

And then what is what is the ultimate cost?

So I think that could be solved by getting the plans from the land surveyor that needed to be submitted in order to do the work, which will show the right-of-I don't think we need to debate about that.

Um, and I don't want to take up too much time about the right-of-way.

And I agree, you know, I what Director Crayo is saying is very valid.

That makes sense to me.

Um, but then I would like to see the contract and an opinion whether or not you can do a change order on that, and if that change order itself would cost the city additional money, and then how far along we are in the project.

I am going to go ahead.

We want you to hang out, don't leave.

Um, but I'm gonna go to um Vice President Heroyan, who had her hand up, and then um Councilwoman Vazier.

I would just like it to be on the record.

I'm sorry, there's a lot of St.

Mary supporters, but I am sure every single person in this room, whether you're from St.

Mary's or not, was raised a separation between government, state, and church.

So house, a grant money, federal money, city money is being used to repair um a fountain.

Second of all, how did we get here?

If this was a city fountain, are we saying the city didn't maintain it?

How are we gonna pay for the water in the future?

Because if I had my way, unfortunately, I'm the biggest advocate for low-income kids.

The splash pads would not have been open because I didn't think we could afford them.

So to put another fountain in that's gonna cost money, and then are we gonna need a new fountain in 30 years?

None of us will be here to remember this, but if it's costing 173,000 now, are we looking at 500,000 down the road?

Um, I just think the money could have been used a lot better.

Whether it's Mary, yes, it's beautiful to stand in front of there's a lot of beautiful things.

We all have to make sacrifices right now.

We just had a budget that was what some people wanted to close the senior center, and that meant some seniors only meal they have a day.

So to have something that looks pretty costing this much money.

Um, as much as I'm against stamped sidewalks, and we're probably gonna get them in Ralph Square.

Um, this is more a show thing.

If we're gonna spend money, we need to do it on functional things that affect the everyday life of every citizen.

Councilwoman Vazierri.

So councilwoman Horoyan took my question about separation between church and state, but um councilman Campo Piano, is there any money that the church has that they can pay for it?

Because I don't think the city should be paying for it.

I I don't know if councilman Campa Piano wants to answer this.

I want to resume my comments until after the director speaks.

Okay, okay, great.

So we're gonna put that question on hold.

Anyone else?

Um, Councilman Bonanno.

First of all, um, thank you.

Um I want to disagree with Council Vice President Heroyan.

She said none of us will be here in 30 years, and I think Amelia and I will be here in 30 years.

So you're out.

Um, no, maybe.

Uh maybe.

I think traffic will still be there.

Yeah, traffic's gonna outlive us all.

Yeah, traffic's gonna live us all.

Okay.

Um has a bigger connection to St.

Mary's Church on this council than I.

My family helped build it.

There's a there's a document in a book where my great-grandfather signed as one of the original families to build St.

Mary's Church because the Italians were persecuted by other cultures at St.

Anne's.

I made all my sacraments to St.

Mary's Church.

Was my desire to have my children make theirs there?

Didn't work out.

Um however, um my connection to St.

Mary's is huge.

With that being said, uh, I can't believe that we're talking about this.

I honestly cannot believe that we're talking about this.

I appreciate Mr.

Richmond's letter.

And I know Mr.

Richmond, and I think he is the uh the utmost upstanding citizen, but I think to be honest, um he's going to bat for his friend when he says that neither the city of Cranston nor St.

Mary's had the money to put a fountain there.

I thought it would excuse me, I'm reading the wrong line.

So I donate a fountain to the city of Cranston.

The man donated the fountain to the church.

Donating it to the city doesn't make it any better or worse.

Donating it to the church doesn't make it any better or worse.

As a man who is a philanthropist, well, very well uh uh very wealthy man, um, he gave a fountain to beautify the area because of the church, and he donated the fountain to the church.

I remember when he donated the fountain to the church because my grandfather and some of his compatriots um they they enjoyed it aesthetically, but it made some of the logistics of taking the saint out of the church during St.

Mary's Feast more difficult, and of course, like any old Italian guy, they had to complain about everything.

Um, so I remember when it was put there, and I remember uh a lot of details about it, and like I said, this was donated to the church.

The city did not realize the city does not know that they owned it until this nightsville read real revitalization project came about.

Okay, there's no question about that.

And how do I know that?

Because four or five blocks down the road is Eatree Park, and every winter that fountain is contracted out professionally to be winterized, while this one is wrapped with bungee cords and a tarp.

And if the city knew that we own that fountain, I don't think they're gonna ignore that fountain.

Okay.

So let's take our our oop shoot.

We messed up, and let's find a legal way to make this work, hat off, and put our common sense hat on.

Now it's no secret that I'm not running for re-election.

People have asked me why.

It's because I have to sit here and get kicked in the teeth because of bad decisions by people other than the people on this council.

I'm sick of it, and this is one of them.

I don't think to you folks out here, especially Mr.

Wojak, I don't think that we have the ability to reverse this, and I hope that it does last 50 years because we're gonna wind up paying for it.

But I could tell you that you know what?

Mr.

Ferry said it's about right and wrong.

This should have been disclosed, it should have been put up in the plans, it shouldn't have been buried anywhere, because whether or not I voted on it or not, and I don't think I got a piece of paper that said included in this is a fountain for St.

Mary's, or in front, I shouldn't say for St.

Mary's in front of St.

Mary's, included was this brickwork and this stamp concrete and this and this.

I think we didn't get details like that.

It was part of the capital budget.

Hey, we're gonna redo Knightsville.

Well, that's not really a bad idea in my estimation.

Okay, but some of the the devil, like I said, is in the details, and these details, there is a devil in these details.

I have a couple more things to say, and I think I forgot which one of my colleagues astutely brought it up.

Who's gonna pay for the upkeep now?

Yeah, it's good, it's a grant, but now what?

I don't have a fountain in front of my house.

I don't know how much it costs.

I can't imagine it's cheap.

Okay.

So I think that we should look into since the church is going to benefit from this.

I think we should look into the church perhaps sharing some of the expense of maintaining it.

Okay, number one.

Number two, um, I can tell you for a fact that the that what Mr.

Varecchia, Mr.

Videcchi elucidated as far as easements and even a memorable memorandum of understanding, none of that happened.

So we're not gonna we're not gonna find that.

Okay, and if it did, I will be extremely surprised.

Um, I also think, frankly, the right-of-way argument isn't that great.

You know what else is in the right of way?

Mine and everybody else's sprinkler system that owns one.

So you know what?

Maybe we should go out for a grant because some of my sprinkler heads are broken.

I would love for the city to be able to fix those.

Finally, all the change that gets thrown into that fountain.

Hope St.

Mary's donates it to the city.

Thank you.

Councilmember Bazeri.

Um, who has been taking care of the fountain for all these years?

Or has it just been neglected?

So then they should pay for it.

Um council vice president Horrian solicitor.

If this was gifted to be in front of St.

Mary's and it's on city property, could the city give this fountain that's dysfunctional back to St.

Mary's, and we gift it to them, and then they can have a fundraiser and repair it and take care of it.

Well, you need two things to have a gift.

You need someone to donate, and then you need acceptance.

So in theory, yeah, sure you could.

You could be gifted a hundred times, but they need to uh you know the city would have to uh make the gift, and then the church would have to accept it.

Um but uh again, you know, you you you're seeing why I I stood up before and said uh what I said about the factual predicate here that there's just too many unknowns to really address this issue properly, in my opinion.

Um I know I'm not a member of this committee, but I gotta speak out.

Uh perhaps none of you were born in the 1980s, I don't know.

But I was on the city council during the 1980s, and Ed Depreet, who got was mayor at that time, had a reconstruction project of the Knightsville area.

And some of you may recall, he constructed the pillars that were in front of Knightsville Manor.

You should have been there about those pillars because the Hillow American community did not want those pillars constructed, but he went forward and built them.

He also reconstructed a portion of a portion of the nightsville area as well.

I think he for traffic purposes, he also constructed the extension of that sidewalk.

There was no fountain on it now.

Now going back to the 1980s, because I was on the city council back then.

Now let's talk about the 1990s.

I was mayor at the time.

I can assure you, and I know Gene Richmond, he's an outstanding individual, an upright citizen.

He's a good hearted person as well.

I'm sure he donated that fountain.

I can assure you one thing.

I did not sign the papers accepting fountain in the front of St.

Mary's Church as mayor of the city of Cranston.

All right, it was donated to the church.

And since that time, the church has been operating that fountain, because I was back then a member of St.

Mary's Church.

And I know Richard agrees with me.

Like I said, that fountain was being operated and cared for by the church by this by the by the uh the uh St.

Mary's community.

Now, I didn't know about this this fountain.

I was sitting at a banquet at the St.

Mary's Feast Society annual banquet, uh it's about two, three weeks ago.

And that's when I found out about the fountain being donated by the city of Cranston.

Because a man got up and spoke about the reconstruction of a Knightsville area, and he mentioned the fountain at that particular time, and that's when it came to our attention.

So that's basically the history of the situation.

But I can assure you, when I was mayor of the city of Cranston in the 1990s, we did not build nor do we accept responsibility for a fountain in front of St.

Mary's church.

Thank you.

Councilman Anderhag.

Director, how much is that how much does that fountain really cost?

If I can take a few minutes, I just like to clarify some of the discussions that are taking place, because some of them are way, way, way off base.

First of all, when this project was put together, we had the budget, as you just mentioned.

There was a 4.7 million dollars allocated or budgeted for this project.

When the design consultant put together his engineer's estimate, what which is his estimation of what it's going to cost to bid this project, it came in at 3.5 in change is a million.

So we had some surplus money potentially available for this, depending on what would happen when they bid the work.

Prior to the completion of these projects, we normally would walk through it, check the plans, make sure that nothing got overlooked, make sure everything was according to what was on those plans.

So everything we see on those plans and what you're seeing built today was on those plans back at the time when everybody had the opportunity to reveal it.

There were details with the fountain on there, there was estimates in there for what the uh fountain was going to cost.

During that field review, part of what we did was this is what they call a streetscape project.

It's not just the safety improvements for the roadway, but it had to do with accessibility, it had to do with the aesthetics, it had to do with planting of trees.

So it was a common theme that was being brought from E tree park all the way down through this area.

So what happens is when we walked this project, part of my responsibilities when I'm out there was to make sure we're looking and addressing all the safety issues.

Granted, wherever the fountain came from, however, that fountain got in the ground, the bottom line is it is on city property.

And I'm not an attorney, but on the father of an attorney who was a personal injury lawyer, and I've had a lot of discussions with her relative to trip and fall and liability.

When I was going through there and I saw a fountain, and if they have the pictures, they could put it up.

That fountain right now, the base is about 12 inches off the ground.

First of all, I saw that and I said that's a major trip and fall.

The liability to the city, if somebody was to trip or fall backwards or take photographs and boob, we're gonna be responsible, regardless of who gave us that and why it is there.

So you're gonna have that responsibility.

The second thing was as you looked at the fountain, the wiring in there was exposed to the water.

So you've got electricity running in there.

Was it properly grounded?

I don't know.

I'm not an electrician, and I'm not the father of an electrician.

But I can tell you that that did not look safe to me.

And as a result, because we do this as a safety improvement, when I saw how much money was left in what was budgeted versus what the engineer's estimate was, I felt that it was in my opinion, and it was a prudent decision in order to make sure we protect the city and the taxpayers, because believe it or not, when that someone trips and falls and you have a million, two million dollar lawsuit because they broke the hip or their arm, all of a sudden everybody's gonna say, Well, gee, you had this out there, you just reconstructed the whole area, you didn't address all the safety issues, now you're responsible for it.

So having said that's how we got to this point.

As far as what's going on with the cost, the fountain itself did not cost 173,000.

Everybody's gotta get that through their head.

It did not.

You've got to understand when somebody bids a project, this is a construction project and he bids a project, he did not bid a line item.

This is a lump sum item within that contract.

And when it comes to estimating a project for those who were involved in construction, you can put your money anywhere you want in any of the items that you bid and that you produce in the proposal pages of a contract.

It's called an unbalanced bid.

There was money in there for that item, but he also has profit.

He has other items of work that could be in there that could potentially not have come to fruition.

So he's got his profit, he's got other items in that bid item to make sure he maximizes the profit of his project of his contract.

One of the things to keep in mind, the difference between the first low bidder and the second low bidder was about $550,000.

And the second low bidder, he bid this project and he bid that item at $100,000.

Are we really gonna know exactly what that cost of that item is?

We do not.

And we really don't have the right to go ahead and ask him what it is.

That's the way he bid the job, that's his responsibility.

And he bids that job, assuming he's gonna win, regardless of what he puts into those contract items.

He did it, the low bidder won it.

The price he had for that light lump sum item was 173,500.

That is not what that fountain costs.

So when people keep saying that it's 173,000 fountain, it is not.

It's significantly less than that.

What you're paying for are some of the items in there that he offset his bids so that he makes sure whatever money he knows, because he knows that fountain is going in, that's how he was going to get the profit on the other items.

There are other items that he put in that are bid lower than what the second bidder put on there.

So you've got to understand this was contract bidding, it's estimating it's an art, it's not a science.

You don't just take what it was per linear foot times the cost and come up with the total dollar value.

That's not the way construction works.

And if anybody thinks it's different, I'd be willing to sit down and discuss it with them.

So, and I hear you keep saying you're saying it's not 173,000.

When you voted on it, what was it?

I mean, uh I'll be honest with you, and and I'm not trying to be snarky, but we we were in a time when you spent two months looking at every line of a budget where we spent every dime.

I want to know how much it was.

Significantly less is good.

How much significantly less?

I think that's a good thing.

What these people are saying is this we spent 173,000, 150,000, 100,000 to put a fountain that we didn't need in front of the church.

Right.

That's the issue right now.

Maybe we could have cut that 100, 60,000, whatever it was out and save a couple of money money for the taxpayers.

I think that's the point.

If we decide that this belongs, doesn't belong to the church, we still come back to the point that we're making these, and I don't want to be snarky about it.

Pet projects, priority when we need to save some money, regardless of what we spend, if we spend an extra hundred thousand, two hundred thousand dollars, it increases our debt service.

Next year it's gonna contribute to our deficit.

That's the point I'm making.

If we say that this belongs to the city, fine, let's take that for a moment.

I still want to save money.

This is the time when we don't spend extra money.

So I want to know the amount of money.

I that that's my big issue right now because our debt is going up.

So I couldn't find, I spent a lot of hours looking at at the agendas and finding the border, you know, border contracts.

I couldn't find anything except Knightsville revitalization, streetscape phase three.

That's a very vague statement.

So the truth is I had no damn idea until I walked out that then there was a fountain there.

I had I didn't know they replaced the fountain.

It looked good last year.

I've got pictures of it.

Perhaps it was too short, it didn't run great.

But the truth is, I'm not really sure.

And you're probably right about all this.

But I bet it would have caught less cost less if we didn't have a phone.

It would have cost less.

Again, assuming that no one would ever get hurt.

We don't know.

If somebody did have that one time potential trip and fall, what if it's just bricks and there's no fountain?

If the St.

Mary's St.

Mary's wanted to put a fountain in, they could put a phone.

Okay, get my point.

I'm not trying to be belligerent.

But I think you make a good point, but I also want to say we didn't have to do a lot of extra stuff.

At a certain point, we could probably save some money in our debt service.

You said that we saved $8,000, $800,000.

Maybe we saved another $100,000 not having a fountain.

Is it gonna look as beautiful?

No, I get what you're saying.

But the truth is there's places in the city where we don't have sidewalks that aren't cracked.

That's the point.

So I'm not trying to go back and forth because if you're saying that's mine, you and I are gonna disagree, and I'll certainly talk about construction later.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, we are not gonna go back and forth unless I call on you.

So I'm gonna go back to Councilman Anderhar who asked Dr.

Caro the question.

Yes, director.

Um, I also wanted to note that this was a grant that was given in I think March of 2024 before all of us, correct?

The the grid, the original grant.

The original earmark money was given to the city by the federal government, okay.

Congress.

So now my next question would be to the administration if somebody could just answer this question.

Is it are we using city tax dollars, or is this a federal grant that we're using and we're and it's basically coming out of our federal tax dollars?

If somebody could just click by that, Director Maretti is gonna get up and answer the question for you.

Because I think that's where we're all getting confused.

Yeah, as Director Crayo mentioned, it is the entire project.

A fountain was not bid.

We're not paying specifically on an itemized basis for a fountain.

It's a project was awarded for approximately 3.5 million.

I believe it's on on uh budget, of which 1,900 950,000 was secured by Senator Reid working with the city of Cranston.

And the difference uh would be city bond money money that was approved by the city council.

Thank you.

So it is city, it is city money.

We're just back to what Paul said.

I mean, that that's nice and all, but I I think what everyone is kind of saying is that we still didn't have to spend it.

Maybe Director Crayo needed to make safety improvements, but we don't know how much those safety improvements were comparatively to the full restoration.

And I think this is the point.

It may have been buried in there, and I get it's a lump sum, but you still can make a change.

You can request a change order.

Um Vice President Horrion.

I would just like everyone to grant money is beautiful.

Grant money is your taxpayer money, it's your federal taxpayer or state.

So either way you look at it, grant money is your taxpayer money.

Thank you, Councilman Bonano.

I I just I'm not gonna speak long again, but I feel really bad because I remember sitting in this seat at the end of a budget meeting, being snarky to the finance director because we cut what was it, Councilman Ritz, a thousand dollars in stamps to try to keep the senior center open and fund our schools properly.

And I understand that it's what the director just said, it's uh a hybrid of bond money and grant money, and we can't delineate because it's a whole project.

But you know, I I feel I feel really badly that that this is the conversation that we have to have, and it just should never come to this.

It just should never come to this.

And we we we gotta have more information here on the council moving forward, yeah, because we're getting our teeth kicked in from the public.

Um and whether we deserve it or not, well, there's an argument for either one of those, but I'm kind of sick of that.

So sorry, thanks for an Andrew Hamana, Councilman Rets, because you just councilman rants.

Yeah, I I I'm not a member of this uh committee, but I'm sure hearing the public with the uh the phone.

I think even in good times, 173,000 is is way too much uh to spend for the fountain.

And Councilman Bernano took one of my thoughts uh, you know, it wasn't that long ago.

We were cutting back, you know, a thousand dollars here, five thousand dollars here to keep the senior center open and and keep the city camp going.

So I I think it's just tough to to understand this.

And I know what you're saying, it was a package deal, but if there's an availability to kind of break that down just so we can understand it more, if we could at least try and get that, it would definitely help us.

I mean, going forward, I I'm not sure how you're gonna do that, other than we would have to sit here and just walk you through the entire project and every single project that you do.

I mean, the project starts at the beginning, it started at Randall Street, it goes all the way down to a portion approximately 50 to 100 feet north of Florida Avenue.

I mean, there was street lighting there, it was always shown on the plans, the typical sections and everything that was shown, always showed lighting.

Do you need all those things?

No, but part of the project and part of the vision that people have for this thing is was to revitalize and to do a streetscape project for the city of Cranston.

That included what was in Knightsville.

The common theme was to be carried through because prior to this from 2022 and 23, or before that, they did eat repark, they had some improvements there.

Then prior once that project was completed, the next project went out.

That was a continuation.

This again is just a continuation of what was there.

Hindsight is 2020.

Could we all sit here if this was last week and we were coming in with these items?

I totally agree with everyone what you're saying.

We should be looking at trying to remove some of these things to cut the cost.

But at the time this project was put together back in 2024, that wasn't the giant issue.

The goal was to be able to revitalize and do a streetscape project that everybody could be proud of as you go through this project through that Knightsville area.

And I think that's what was accomplished by what we have.

Trying to go back now after the fact, it is going to cost you more money because the contract is going to say I bid the item, that's the lump sum item.

I've already put in X number of tens of thousands of dollars of work.

You want me to take it out?

Fine, I'll take it out.

But we have to sit there and negotiate a price for him to have remove, which was the removal of the old one, the placing of the concrete footing, the coating of that concrete, the placement of the granite that was specially cut to make that base that's there today, the piping that was brought in for the water that's there, the electricity, the cost that are going into putting it together, and then you want to start and you say don't do anything, then you're gonna end up with a hole in the ground with a fountain with no fountain.

How how far along right now everything is done short of placing whatever fountain we have to place on top of the foundation, it's all there.

Found yes okay, councilman Ander Hara.

I just want the public to know that we approve the whole capital budget.

We do not approve line items.

We can't go in, like I can't go to Gladstone School and say don't buy those 250 chairs.

We already approved Glasshone, it's already failed.

Now, and you know, I always speak my mind and I could sleep at night.

And I thank uh Councilman Ferry for bringing this up.

But the gentleman next to me on my on my right does not like me, and he's gonna work his tail off against me, and I'm gonna work my tail off against him.

But to crucify this poor guy, saying that he's the one that put this fountain there, I believe is wrong.

I belong to Holy Ghost Church in Providence, and we have the same issue.

We have the same fountain, and it beautifies Federal Hill.

And before you when you enter Federal Hill, if you're coming up from Owenville, it gives you a good feeling.

And when you leave Federal Hill, you see the phone and it gives you a good feeling.

So we have the fountain there, it was approved before us.

End of story.

Now, in the future, I'm the first one that talked about this a few weeks ago.

We need to change the charter so this council has more power on light item.

Right now we don't have it.

So this is a witch hunt.

So I think it's over.

I thank Councilman Ferry for bringing it up.

You brought up the attention.

We need to move on.

Council President Wall.

Um I can't tell.

I don't know if we can, you know, I appreciate uh Director Meridi from the from the back.

He said, could the mayor stop it right now?

And that thought, that thought that perhaps we have to tighten our belts, even with the projects they will want done, right?

And when you said that, maybe maybe we can't change this project because we're too far along.

Um, but it's a lesson that we do have other projects, and can we save some money?

Because the truth is at the end of the day, some of this money was grant money that would go away.

1.9 million dollars was grant money from the federal government, and rightfully said from uh Vice President Heroyan, that's your money and my money, and grant money if you don't use it, it's lost.

But the others from the capital budget, and that's bonded money, right?

And that increases our debt service.

So if we can tighten our belt, like we talked about during our own the capital budget during this year, going forward.

Perhaps we're thinking a little more frivolously than we once would.

That some of the bells and whistles, and I I say this, I look at you because to be honest with you, you're on you're on the board of contracts and purchases, and you would be a person who would be able to kind of think that way.

Um, because right now the the council doesn't have the ability to stop those things.

And if I can just add to that, I understand that, but also remember, I've only been here a year.

You learn lessons as you go along.

If that is the concept, and that's what the council is thinking going forward, then we have that mindset going forward.

But trying to go back for something that was pre-approved two plus years ago and try to criticize it now and try to say let's stop it.

It's not a prudent thing to do.

Yeah, because there are going to be people who are going to criticize for what we're doing, and they're gonna be people criticizing it.

If we left it the way it is, stop the work on the farm.

They're gonna say, How could you go this far?

How could you leave that?

I mean, we're not gonna please everybody.

We understand the thought process, we understand where the people stand going forward, we'll take a different look at it.

I understand it, and I will for the time that I'm here.

But it's just not a prudent thing, in my opinion.

And I've been in the construction industry for 30 plus years and a professional engineer for 40 years.

Doing what we're trying to do now about backtracking is not the best decision to be made for a project like this.

Okay, certainly I understand.

And I I think my point was if you can't backtrack right now, if you're at a point, you can't.

I get it.

It if you're saying that, and we'd look into it.

What I'm saying going forward, I think some of our projects as we go, we have to be a little bit more thrifty with our dollars.

That's all.

And there is still some work to be done here.

And if we want to try to tighten the belt a little bit, we could look at saving some additional monies between now and where we are.

There is still some additional work that we might be able to, what they call value engineer out and not do it.

And if that's the wishes, that is something we can do because we are we are getting started to complete this project.

We're paving this project next Monday, Monday night into Tuesday, they'll be finishing this project for paving.

So there's still a little bit of work to take place for the next couple of weeks.

And there are things if we can save it.

I respect your decisions that you would like us to consider it, and we will do that.

Thank you.

Um, really quick before Director Mredi speaks.

I'm gonna let Council Bonanno go ahead.

Um, thank you.

I I feel bad for you too because you're in the hot seat.

I think first of all, I think Cranston is lucky to have you, and I don't want any of my comments to say or uh infer anything different.

Our friendship goes beyond the wall.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah.

Um Cranston is is lucky to have you.

Plain and simple.

Um that being said, I think you've you've also sort of received the message that the entire council is giving you, which which is we would like a um uh some more information.

So if if a member of the public asks us a question, we're not caught off guard, you know.

Um, and and B, yeah, at this point, I think anything, anything, anything, anything we need to be thrifty with.

So um, you know, it's a two-way street.

Uh, and I hope that that we that that's the mindset going forward.

Um here.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Yeah, I think that leads into the the next bullet item.

And uh President Wall can.

Oh, well, I think we're not done with the first one, but I think this stems into the second one.

We're not gonna go into it, but basically, is that we it sounds like the council would like a list of projects and where we can get this value engineering from that is sort of flowing into the second one, which is like we would like an update on what's coming forward for contracts and bids, so we know what might be out there and what might need what may need to be cut.

Um you want to be lost.

Okay, director Moretti.

No, thank you.

Uh I had no prepared comments.

I was sitting back listening to everyone here this evening, and just want to kind of summarize things, I believe.

I believe everyone is right and in a lot of ways.

But I think it was what came out in the last part of the discussion was this to put things in perspective.

Had the city not received it basically a two million dollar grant for three and a half million dollar project.

I could tell you, I don't think the city council or the administration would have proceeded.

Put ourselves back three years ago, three and a half years ago.

That's where we are.

Look at the timing of this.

By the time this contract was executed, it was a public display.

It was not behind closed doors.

And it just wanted to make that important point.

It was vetted, and at the time it was probably supported by everyone, or most everyone.

Nothing's ever unanimously supported.

Um but we now we have it was awarded as a package.

And we're looking myopically because of a news report about a fountain for 173,000.

Director Correa educated me tonight, particularly about how the bidding process worked.

But realized it's not Mayor Hopkins Fountain.

I want you to know that.

It was design architects, engineers, whatever the fancy word is that these people developed the project, the proposal.

That proposal was submitted out to bid.

The entire project came back to the lowest bidder.

And given the timing of that, it was it was if I may respectfully uh mention to the council president, this project actually began uh broke ground, wasn't this spring, it was last uh late summer to fall when it began with finishing continuing finishing it up this spring.

So really the construction aspect started, I don't know exactly what months.

It's probably August of last year, 2025.

Because it went if if I may do the chair, I'm going by what I what I was reading in the just the uh Board of Contracts and Purchases in the 22nd, you approved of the bid.

That's what I have there.

So I'm hearing that I guess perhaps the fountain.

I don't know when you started breaking ground in that part.

Was the fountain that long ago?

Because last year, the last year at this time, the old no fountain itself broke ground probably earlier this year.

Spring.

Early in the that's what I think I was referring to.

Okay, so thank you to clarify totally good.

Okay, so that was kind of so basically this was committed.

If we were to redo this, and it went, we went through this this process with with capital projects and the budget.

We all get it.

The administration of the council gets it.

That we are good just trying to reduce whatever we can reduce that's feasible to backtrack on this project now.

It's either gonna cost the city more money or it's gonna be negligible for something that's gonna be here for probably 30 to 50 years or so.

So it'll be literally pennies on the dollar if if we ever backtrack and it might even be worse.

The reneg on a contract from my business experience, you renege on contracts, you're paying.

It doesn't come free, especially if at this point in the project.

So what I'm saying is, yeah, had we in hindsight, had we you know, had that decision making process been in the last recent times, it wouldn't have been this decision.

And certainly going forward, uh that you know those that consideration will be there.

Um, but I can tell you if times were booming and we were doing well, I don't know if this would really be a news article.

Um, but it's it's merited.

Everyone deserves their opinion, and there is controversy and it's understood.

But respectfully, I think we just it's the truth.

I'm not trying to snuff anything under the rug, but was there is there and to move on.

In hindsight is 2020.

And and it had we not had uh, you know, had we had the opportunity to truly do something materially effectively uh moving forward, that would have been done.

So the the the words are there, we respect the public.

Everything was said, respect the council, everything that's said, but at the same time, had to get perspective to the timing of this.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

And if I could just mention one other thing to follow up on to just to keep in mind, the contract right now, as it stands, we're minus 1.1% above what the bid prices are.

So we're running under the estimated cost of what it's going to take, and there's still time to finish things up.

So this project will come in under budget, regardless of what we do.

Okay, including the fountain, it will still be on the budget.

Okay, thank you.

Um Councilman Capapiano.

Thank you, Chair.

I'm gonna first of all apologize if I ramble a little because I I might have a lot to say.

Um, to the chair, I don't know if uh Director Renzulli has anything to add to this.

Um I will tell you that the 173,000 dollars is the number that I gave to the press, because that was the number that was given to me.

And I just recently also learned about unbalanced bids and how that works.

So I will say that that's applicable across any construction project that we have.

And I am other than working here, I am also uh taxpayer in Cranston.

And I would like, I would have liked to understand that because when taxpayers ask questions, I think it's they want the details, and we don't necessarily have those, not lying about it.

They just don't exist within the bid.

So 173,000 sounds like a lot of money, but that included more than just the fountain, and there's no way to break that down further for me to do.

So I just I'm the messenger.

I just want to convey that.

Um, on on top of that, I I do think that it is you know relevant whether this is on city property or not.

So if this was a road before, then it is part of the right of way, unless we gave it to the church.

So I guess we have to look for that.

Um, and in that case, it's no different than the fountain at Cathedral Square, which the City of Providence owns and maintains, and the fountain across from Holy Ghost.

It's the same thing.

So I don't know how we're gonna have separation of church and state argument amongst this council, unless that is church property.

So someone's gonna have to prove that.

And that's all I really have to represent from the mayor, other than he, this is part of a project that revitalized an area.

There are um many other areas, including the two that I just mentioned in Providence, where those fountains are are staples and inviting into an area.

This is the beginning of Knightsville coming from Dairab.

That's going to be a beautiful area.

This is eventually going to help with economic development.

And I think that that was part of his vision.

This came through the capital budget, and council's had an opportunity to vote on it.

You never get the details.

If I was here and sat for years about the Budlong pool, where we argued about how it was going to look and the size it was going to be, and ultimately at the end of the day, it was up to the mayor.

We could have built the pool exactly how it looks five years ago.

So I don't know, you know, really what you guys want to do, but you're gonna have to change the charter if you if you want any other power because it is it is what it is.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And if you want to do that, the deadline's August 5th.

Okay, thank you.

First, um I find it a little offensive.

Um that because I'm active in my church, that I'm I'm vilified.

Uh I had nothing to do with picking a fountain or getting a fountain or any of those things.

Um, it went from the newspaper to social media to these chambers.

Um, and I I just I did nothing wrong.

I'm just my only thing I did wrong was I'm active in my church.

That's all.

I also want to thank Councilman Andor for uh sticking up for me in that fashion.

Thank you.

Um, I also want to clarify something.

Uh Councilman Ender said, I do consider Ferry, Mr.

Ferry, a friend of mine, and I always will, and I always respected him, and I always respected him in public and in private.

I feel he has good ideas, and when I served with him on the counter council, I did, and I also always commend you at that time.

Uh I think it's only myself, the director Anzuli.

Um at the time, Councilman Ferry were on the I do not remember if you were on the council when we discussed this part of the project.

This part I was on.

You were on.

Well, if if you recall at that time, we had a lengthy discussion on whether to finish the project or leave it at Randall Street.

And after latest discussion, I think we all it was eight to one.

Mr.

Ferry was the only negative vote to go forward.

So that being said, um, I'll admit the upgrades to that area may be a little excessive.

I mean, the lighting, the concrete, uh, the fountain, the park.

Um, I commend the administration for getting the grants they did get.

Um, some of his bond money, and we got to remember that that bond money and those grants were allocated for this project.

Now, if you go back to that time before this any was done, Bar Lazio was a dive bar.

There was multiple uh drug busts there, multiple arrests.

It was probably a big black eye in the middle of Knightsville.

Um they spend over a million, maybe two million dollars building that building and invested in that whole side of the street.

They own that whole side of the street.

I don't know if anybody knows that from the corner to corner.

And I think many of you had your fundraisers in that building, and I can tell you every single one of you have joined a drink in that building.

The building would not be here today if that revitalization wasn't done.

It just wouldn't be here.

Now there's a bank on the corner of Randall in Cranston that's up for lease now.

I've talked to some developers and some restaurant people.

That's gonna cost over five million if they're gonna put something there.

Hopefully they do soon.

But I could tell you right now, if nothing was done in that area, that would be an empty building the same way some of their empty buildings throughout the city.

We look for economic development in the city, that's the way it gets to be done.

Again, it may be excessive, it may be too much, but it's done.

It was voted on the the uh uh the money was allocated for these projects.

I like to ask the director.

Again, I'm rambling and I apologize.

When we get specifically to the fountain, how was it determined it was a good idea to put a fountain there?

Was it pressure from anybody, or was it a um consultant that says this would be a good flow, similar to what's up in Federal Hill with Councilman Ander Haw pointed out, or was it a random choice?

No, the fact of the matter is the fountain was there.

So, based on the fact that it was there, and based on the fact that it was actually on city property, that's where I took it upon myself when I walked by there and I saw it and I said, Hey, we've got a potential safety hazard here, and this thing is falling apart.

Do we want this to be the entranceway into what we're calling this nightville area, or do we think we should be updating this a little bit so that A, we get rid of the risk, we get rid of the liability, and we also help beautify this, which is part of what the thought process is for this.

You know, you mentioned the economic development.

You're talking about the improvement, you're talking about a Balazio, you're talking about some of the other things in the businesses that are taking place in there.

That would never happen if we don't do this.

So if we become short-sighted to the point where we say, well, we're gonna watch every single dollar, we're not gonna do all this amenities.

People aren't gonna want to go there.

Businesses do not want to be there.

You've got people that are looking for developments.

Look what's happening at Printworks.

Printworks is actually getting all that stuff going.

They're gonna be completing it, they're gonna be several apartments there, and then you're gonna have an opportunity to have those people be able to walk up through a lit street that would be much safer than what we've had in the past, so that we can get from point A to point B, which is to all use utilize and enjoy the restaurants, which we have some of the best restaurants around in that area.

I mean, I am a citizen, I live in Cranston, I spend my tax dollars here, I enjoy going there, and it's nice to see what they're doing there.

And yes, do we need to do everything?

No, but part of it is a package.

You gotta look beyond the short-sightedness of today and look to the future.

People will think about this in the future, just like they did not to belabor the Budlong pool, but working on that pool, there were several people that worked on that project that had nothing but great things to say about the fond memories they had when they were kids utilizing that pool.

And just something like that is something that we're giving to the kids today that'll remember several years in the future.

Same thing with this project.

This project is something, yes.

Right now, it was a budget concerns.

Granted, that's all true, but that wasn't at the time this all took place.

That wasn't when the time when they decided to revitalize Knightsville.

We're here, we're here now, we revitalized it.

And just to follow up quickly with yours, it wasn't anybody's push from anywhere else, other than when I was looking at it, looking at what the thought process was, what the theme was of that area, is that was going to be an eyesore, and that was going to be a problem.

And just like we're having concerns and criticisms now, if we had left that fountain the way it was and we did all this work and all this lighting, we would have been criticized for leaving that eyesore in the middle of this project when you just spent all this money to revitalize it.

Thank you.

I um I hope I don't lose my train of thought because I got two trains of thought here.

Um, past phase three, I've heard rumors because I've been here the longest about potentially being a phase four someday.

Now, phase four would bring you to the mills.

And uh I believe Mr.

Moses owes a piece of property over there where that old church is.

He has plans of making a uh luxury restaurant there.

Um and making that whole area walkable.

Um I I had a uh I went to the meeting in uh Eastern Cranston where they talk about walkability and mixed use, and it was it's all fantastic stuff.

But if we don't invest in it, it's never gonna happen.

So there's a potential that I think there's 200 apartments that are going into that that that area.

I'm sure they're gonna want to frequent some of the stores that hopefully utilize this new area.

And I talked to developers, and they're excited what what's going on there.

They're very excited.

Um, I understand that you know it's we're in troubled times right now, and it and it's tough, and uh, we had to make some tough decisions through the budget.

But this is already past tense, so sorry be done.

Um, I'll speak to the fountain for a second.

Um, the fountain was put in in the mid-90s, like the letter said, and um uh it's no secret.

I have a couple of friends that are priests.

I have one friend of mine, it's probably my oldest friend, he was a priest.

I was friends with him for 30 years before you came to priest, so had nothing to do with him being a priest.

And uh there's a lot of churches that have a um a policy, no volunteers, no no no donations, nothing because what happens is when when something's volunteered or given or something like this, it's it tends to be a little inferior.

They don't tend to follow code like the directors just said with the electric, and and things happen.

I'll I'll give you an example.

Like some of the playgrounds around town were painted by volunteers.

Oh, here we go, or whatever.

It's never done to a professional standard, and I think that's what happened here.

The fountain was I don't know how much it was.

I never asked Mr.

Richmond, but it was it wasn't uh a uh public quality fountain.

It was it was it almost immediately it started deteriorating and it started failing.

And uh Councilman Bernano to um made the uh statement that it was held together with a bungee cord.

Well, the reason why is we looked into having it professionally um covered, same way as the one that's in E Tree Square.

And the guy told us as soon as I cover this and I vacuum form it, it's going down.

This is it's not it's not gonna, it's not gonna happen.

It's it's not gonna stand up.

So we had to go with bungee cords to necessity, and uh to wrap this thing up.

And for some of you don't know, half of that fountain was styrofoam.

Uh one side fell right off.

And um I commend some of the members, it wasn't myself, but commend some of the members of the feast society that actually built molds and made styrofoam molds to hold it together because um they didn't have the money that to to fix it or whatever.

We uh the church didn't maintain it for uh years, and um I don't see uh that being an issue if that becomes a sticking point and um a bone of contention that who's gonna cover it each year, who's gonna uncover it, who's gonna maintain the chemicals or the water or whatever that is.

I think we can work it out with St.

Mary Church.

I don't I don't think they would be uh against anything like that.

I mean, we'd have to work out some type of deal because obviously it's on city property, you know.

We just learned that.

So um uh I think that's something we work out, and uh to councilman uh councilwoman Vazeri's question.

Um no, we don't have the money.

Um I seen a lot of the Facebook um uh posts.

I read every single one on multiple levels in multiple areas, and um I think councilman uh hand a hog could probably attest to this.

Um there isn't a church around that's loaded, it's it's a myth.

I uh it's no secret, it's in my uh ethics.

Uh I sit on the board of St.

Mary's, and we struggle.

We struggle every year to make our um the same way with the schools.

I I uh I uh I look at the same level as the schools.

Schools are a hundred years old, churches a hundred years old.

It's tough to maintain it.

So we just went through and painted and did some stuff, so we don't have the money to buy a new one.

Um so that's that's that part of it.

So uh I I look forward to the cost savings.

Um I commend uh director Correa for keeping this project under budget.

That's good news.

That's very good news.

And um, if we can uh go further and um and uh keep it even further on the budget, I would appreciate it.

Um I don't think the answer is just to leave a hole in the ground for now.

I mean, I don't think anybody wants to drive by and enter into the nice little area with a hole in the ground.

So um I don't know if that's the answer.

Okay, um, sorry.

Um, President Wall wants a last word.

Well, it doesn't have to be the last one.

Um it's I I just did kind of want to I maybe so and I appreciate listen, no one's gonna criticize you for your commitment to your faith and to your church.

All right, uh I I have nothing but respect for that.

Um I think the point is, and listen, it's not thrifty to pull back a project if you're gonna suffer more penalties and lose more money.

That's not smart finances, so that's not what I'm advocating for either.

So if we're gonna lose money by by not putting the fountain in, I'd be a fool to say that'd be a great idea.

Yeah, so I'll tell you that right now.

I think the idea goes back to this fact.

And going forward, if I read uh Mr.

Redman's letter, neither the city of Cranston nor St.

Mary's Church had the money to put a fountain there.

Right now, you just told me St.

Mary's doesn't have the money to put a fountain there.

And I'm telling you right now, if we didn't have hadn't paid for it already, we don't have the money either.

I agree with Mr.

President.

I agree with you.

And you you said it exactly.

And so that's and going forward.

I think the only point I think the director said almost exactly the same.

We hear the message that going forward, some of the bells and whistles we may have to cut out.

All right.

And that's the point I was trying to make.

That's it.

Not to point fingers at you or St.

Mary's.

There's 150 churches.

They don't have money for a fine.

I I did not take offense at all.

All right.

That was my intention.

I have the utmost respect for you.

Um do I still have the floor?

Okay.

Do I still have the floor?

Sure.

Okay.

Councilman Capriano.

Um, allow me.

Thank you for allowing me to ramble.

Um because of that, I lost my train of thought.

I was gonna pick up back on something that the um director Moretti said, but um uh yeah, I lost my train of thought.

But with that said, um, oh, I know what it was.

Um, if we did not get that grant, I do not believe we would have even started this part of the project.

So that's um that's we're in and uh I also want to emphasize what um the the director of Korea says as far as um how uh we rely on a um a consultant to say what works and what's don't works in the area.

I mean if he says that's what is best, he's a consultant, that's what we're paying.

Um as far as changing the charter.

I agree with that.

I think we should because uh I sat on the school buildings board and I asked who the hell picked the colors of Garden City School to Harid.

Uh so I said we have no choice, we had no choice.

So um I don't know about that for time words, and and we're gonna have to shimmy on.

Thank you.

Um councilman.

Well, the revitalization of the realisation of Ralph Street, rewrite read right revitalization of nightsville are all pluses for the city of Cranson, both socially and economically.

We all realize that.

Let's not kid ourselves.

The church is not gonna maintain that fountain properly.

We all know that it's gonna have to be maintained by the city of Crenson.

So let's bite the bullet.

The project has been approved several years ago.

It's almost completed.

In fact, it'd probably be clean be completed before the feast.

So, like I said, it we can't just we can't go back at this point in time.

So it's basically a debt issue, as far as I'm concerned.

Thank you.

I think we're gonna go ahead and go to the next bullet point under this, but I'm going to be very quick on this.

Um, council president.

I'll so leads into um what I think the council's asking, which and anyone can jump in.

So I we would like a list of proposed construction um that's going before purchasing and contracts or proposed to be out to bid for FY27, so we can take a look at that um and update on cost approvals for anything under the capital improvements line item that is going to be um completed as part of um taxpayer money that is going to um impact our debt services.

So that's what I'm looking for.

Any proposed projects in 2027, FY27 Director Crayo.

Yeah, through the chair.

I just to let you know, whatever we have for projects, it's all on the capital budget.

Whatever the capital improvement program is today, those are the projects that are proposed.

We don't have any bonding money right now to do any of those projects, so I'm not sure any of those are gonna make it to this coming season.

If we bond, the best I understand is we're not gonna have bonded money through either we have to put a bond on the election.

If it gets voted in, you're not looking for anything until sometime after January, and then after that, you only have six months, and I'm not sure if there are any of those projects that are scheduled to go out within that period of time.

Will you keep us in the loop if anything is being proposed under those capital improvement line items?

Thank you.

Okay, I don't have anything else on that.

Just we need that in the loop.

Okay, moving on.

Um, the next one is is me.

Um, this is the Shriner's LED sign update since the last meeting for city council.

Um, if the committee remembers, um, anyone who we're all on city council, so um a number of the public came in and we discussed um the illegal LED sign.

There was a citation issued by the zoning enforcement officer, and I'm gonna do updates until we have a final on this.

Director Enzuli will be giving us an update on happenings since that last city council meeting.

Thank you.

Um per Stan Peichel and the inspections department, the head of inspections, the shriner sign, they have had two notices sent, and on it was yesterday, he recorded a municipal court summons.

So they will be summoned to municipal court.

Okay, do we have a date for that?

Usually they give you a date.

No, not yet.

He did not give me a date because he said he I am recording I municipal court summoned, so he didn't contact me after he did it.

So I didn't get a thing.

Can I get an update from the solicitor how that will move forward with municipal court?

I was reading about uh the pool legislation, which um is coming up next.

Could you just repeat that for me, please?

So essentially um the inspection services issued a um citation for an illegal LED sign that was issued.

They've been two notices um issued and there's been no response.

It sounds like they have requested a date with municipal court who will be representing um inspection services on behalf of the city, and how do you anticipate that timeline moving forward?

It's um Steve Marcella um usually handles municipal court violations.

And I I mean, I don't have any personal knowledge of um where that stands.

I mean, I generally I can tell you if they obtained counsel, if they they probably entered a denial and requested a hearing.

That could take truthfully, that could take a while, unless um the court gives it an expedited type of hearing, and I have no way of knowing that at this point.

Okay, so while yeah, I mean 20 days the uh well, they have a certain number of days um to answer, it's usually in the vicinity of 20 days, but the uh when when they get cited, they're given a court date.

Uh the court date should be on the summons.

They're to appear on that date, but then at that point in time, the judge is going to give them another date to come back, and depending on how things proceed, that'll be a pretrial conference, they'll discuss issues.

It all depends on uh how um if they really want to fight this, put it that way, or if they're just going to comply.

If they want to put up a fight, honestly, this could take months if they really want to put up a fight.

Just being honest with you.

I do understand that every now and then, so I get it.

Um councilman Bonanno, Councilman Rentz.

Thank you.

Um through the chair, and I don't know if this is directed at um attorney for Techio or maybe uh director Renzuli.

While the uh litigation for lack of a better term, while the municipal court procedure is going on, um can they operate the sign or can the city inspection say shut it off until further notice?

The only the only city inspector can only issue a cease and desist.

Okay, to enforce a cease and desist, you need court authorization, whether it's a municipal court or the superior court.

You we we've been through this with the license, yeah, with the alcohol licensing, so you can issue all the cease and desists that you want and have all the show cause hearings that you want.

But at the end of the day, unless a court of law orders them to cease and desist.

I mean, they're in violation, don't get me wrong.

They'll be facing daily fines.

They'd be foolish to do it, but I you know, I don't know what they what their intentions are.

All right.

Because you can seek an injunction in court.

Yes, yeah.

I just yeah, I don't know who's listening or if any of these folks here are for that particular sign, but you know, I know for a fact that at this point in the city of Cranston, no LED sign can go up unless it's approved by zoning.

Every single one is a variance, and I only know that, like I said, because I was on the zoning board for so long.

So um, you know, they they even so it's I I don't see how they win.

Um I really don't.

It just might take a while.

And I was I'd be hopeful that that uh they would at least shut the sign off, whether they're told to or not, um, while it's going on.

So so one of my questions is could they I I'm pretty sure this is true.

They can simultaneously go to municipal court and seek an injunction in superior court.

When you say they, are you referring to code enforcement or are you the city general?

Well, basically code enforcement would have to request and get authorization from the administration.

I this is what I assume the process is for city council to go to superior court to seek an injunction.

Yeah, I mean, if if my boss, uh Chris Millet gives me the authorization, just like I did with safety services to go to court to get the injunction, then I would go.

I'm gonna let you go, Councilman Rentz.

I just had a comment.

I had I went to an event at Rhodes uh last week, and that that sign is bright.

I actually drove back around and stopped, and you can see it reflecting in the windows of the residents there.

It's uh it's significantly uh uh intrusive there to say the least.

So I just wanted to share that and applaud Councilwoman Graziano for staying on this because this this does impact that neighborhood.

If you can see it reflecting in the windows, it's bad.

Thank you.

Well, residents over there, thank you, Councilman Rentz.

Um Councilman Ander.

Councilwoman, I mean the Shriners is a very um reputable organization, they're very charitable.

They are a staple in in Potta Village.

So, but it's your area.

So whatever you decide to do, I will support you.

I so I support the shiners and and their goals and and being part of the community, but I think being part of the community is respecting the community, and we have had multiple complaints about it.

This is a historic area, it absolutely does not go with our area, and there's residents there, and it shines into their houses.

I promise I will stay on this.

Um, and I'd also I can make a formal request, but I would you know, I would like to hear if the inspector could um reach out to the administration and request um to go to superior court and seek an injunction.

I I just told the inspections that and they also have not received a date, they send if summons over it, they don't have a date.

Just saying for municipal court.

No, no, I'm I'm telling you both things.

I said they sent over a summons but have not received a date.

And I also told them about the injunction.

Okay, great, thank you.

Perfect, perfect.

Great.

Okay.

An and we'll we'll stay in the loop.

Okay, next up for our long meeting, Councilman Ritz.

This is for residential pool rentals and a discussion of current laws and possible solutions for resident complaints.

I know we'll get right into it.

I think everyone's aware of that.

If you like council, then I'll I'll jump right into it because I think I know what you're what you're looking for.

Um so just quickly, um, pools, private pools are regulated.

Um, there's there's actually state laws and there's department of health regulations.

Now, private pools are defined as uh pools that are part and parcel of a residential home, and they're for the use of immediate family, friends, and invitees.

Okay, those do not require any type of license, obviously.

However, the situation you're describing is a different matter.

In my opinion, I believe there are two major issues with this.

Number one, you have a zoning issue because it seems to me this is a commercial type of enterprise that's being taken place in a residential zone.

So, number one, right off the bat, it seems to me the code enforcement would have the ability to cite them for operating a business in a residential zone.

That's number one.

Number two, if they're truly operating this as rental, and as I said, as a commercial enterprise, then the department of health requires them to be licensed.

Um, so now they would be in violation of Department of Health regulations.

So that's the general framework.

Um I I was actually surprised.

I I wasn't aware that uh the general laws, it's under Title 23 actually mention uh private pools and how they're exempt from licensing requirements.

But the difficulty becomes well, when does it cross the line from private to I mean mini bud long pools?

Um so but I I would just say this, I throw this out there as a final comment.

I I know you're aware of the situation.

I don't know how you became aware of it, but the proof here would be to me difficult to obtain um in the absence of uh evidence of of payments of of uh advertisements on social media saying, you know, come on over for uh rent my pool for an hour for 50 dollars or something.

It's the proof I think would be kind of difficult.

It's almost all of them and it standed out to other wards and folks reach out to swim a five is swimming.

Swimly, yes, the only app I read about that, and they they advertise and they're on that they're on that all these pools are rented through swimly.

We had reached out to them about being a good neighbor.

Uh and these are I mean wild parties.

I mean, 50 cars, I've gone by a few strobe lights, DJs, that's and it's one night after another.

So I I do agree with you, and that was gonna be my question with Department of Health.

There has to be some regulation of who Yeah, I if it's if it's that out of control, the one you you're um talking about, I think the Department of Health should probably be notified because you know, there's they have more clout, obviously.

I mean, they've got the state behind them instead of us sending, you know, code enforcement for fifty dollars or uh a day fine.

Not that we shouldn't do that, but I'm just saying Department of Health in that situation, I think would probably take an interest.

Uh step be.

And you know what, if that fails again, there's always courtesy.

This this is great information.

Councilman Panano.

Yes, uh, thank you.

I um I volunteered myself, Councilman Ritz and Councilman Andaha to be deputized by court enforcement to attend some of these events to uh witness them.

And uh we will take some videos and uh gather some evidence for you.

So just that that's out there if if you need it.

Let's just rent them.

That's what we're thank you.

It sounds like um, Councilman Ritz wants to keep this on on the list and keep running it until we hear back.

Um, thank you.

Any anyone else?

Please, no.

Did I say that out loud?

Okay.

Um, can I get a motion to adjourn?

Motion to adjourn.

Second.

Second.

Is there a second?

Yes, okay.

All those in favor say I.

All those opposed, great.

We're adjourned eight third.

To call the ordinance meeting to order.

Today is Wednesday, July first, and it is eight thirty nine PM.

Clerk, please take a roll.

Here.

We have a quorum.

Next, um, no, we don't need approval of minutes.

Is there any objection for me to take the meeting out of order?

Seeing none, we are taking the meeting out of order.

At this time, I would like to open up for public comment.

Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on document items only?

Please step up to the microphone.

Thank you very much.

Stephen Price one oh seven Garden Hills Drive, president of the Cranston Plan Commission.

I'm sorry, I could not be here for last month's meeting.

I had a church event, and the church event had nothing to do with mountains.

So first of all, I like that.

I'm not going to repeat my letter.

I want to talk about a few things that I heard that I want to respond to.

First, density.

That's the math.

That is double the density on the future land use map.

That is higher than in densities of any of our neighborhoods.

So you're talking about higher density and smaller lot sizes.

Many of you know that.

I'm not trying to be difficult about maybe reductions there.

But when I look at towns like Johnston, Warwick, our neighbors, their lot size minimums are not 6,000 for a single, 8,000 for a two-family.

It's 7,000 for a single, 8,500 for a two-family, Warwick is 7,000 for a single and 10,500 for two family.

So we are not out of line with our neighbors.

We're actually more permissive of building on small lots of our neighbors.

Second, fiscal impact.

There was some discussion.

This is a net revenue positive.

Look, you got to look at not just the revenue, you gotta look at the cost.

We all know that housing means children.

The question is how many children?

If you build 400 homes, that's gonna be about 200 kids.

That's at least two million dollars.

Okay.

So the net revenue you'll get from these homes will be offset by the cost of the education.

Never mind if you're gonna bring 200 more kids into the eastern section of the city.

I question whether or not you want to close down these schools that they're talking about to replenish a certain ready to April.

Third, 3,000 square foot.

Can you build a two-family on a 3000 square foot in Providence and have adequate parking?

Yes, for Providence purposes, you can.

I don't think it's realistic for Cranston for these reasons.

We have an off-streak and on street parking ban in the evenings.

Most families have two breadwinners who have cars now.

I'm not sure our parking rules are adequate for the amount of parking on one in two families in Cranston.

Never mind problems.

Um, experts.

Uh by the way, when you let me know if I have one minute, just do this thing.

Okay, so um, experts.

I hear a lot like listen to the experts, listen to the experts.

I have a lot of experts in my life.

I do a lot of work with experts, smart people, but they all have slants and views.

Sometimes they have slants and views based on money.

I'm a developer's expert, so I'm gonna find in favor of this.

I work for a nonprofit that supports housing.

Guess what?

I'm gonna be in favor of this.

Or if I'm staffed that wants less work, maybe I'm gonna be in favor of this.

My point of personal view is that I'm not always in favor of housing everywhere and anywhere, but I am in favor of housing in the right amounts and right locations, and I've supported hundreds of units across the city in my tenure as planning chairman and as a member.

Next, there was allegations of racism.

Whenever I hear allegations of racism, that's because they'd have no better way to rebut the merits of the arguments.

It's the same thing, like on my friends on the right, when they don't know how to respond to something, they just say, communism.

Same thing.

Look, being concerned about stormwater and parking is not being a bigot, it's being realistic.

Then there was this comment, and I'm almost finished, and I don't usually do this except someone brought me up.

So they said, councilman said, uh, this will take away power from the chairman.

If I was interested in power, I would have spent the last few years kissing the president's butt in the White House and his cronies.

Okay.

That's not who I am.

Um, as I told the councilman back in March, that's and he brought this up a concern, this will reduce my power.

I said, I don't care.

I just do what I think is right, and you guys do whatever you're gonna do.

So it's not about power for me.

It's about what I think is best for these neighborhoods under our rules and other stuff.

What I think this is about is that in part is that the commission voted against development on Lake Street at the time in February, and it was a three-three vote.

And I gave it a couple of chances and still came back.

This development was very controversial because it was gonna be a two-fan two-story, basically doubling the density of that air of that particular project where there's already a two-family on it, and the neighbors came out in force and showed me pictures of stormwater of garbage cans flowing into Sparkle Pond.

And they say this is not the right place to put a two-family building.

So I know the council is supportive of it.

If you guys want to change the rules for this project on Lake Street, that's your business.

That is your business.

If you want to make a special rule for Lake Street, that is also your business.

But you are gonna be messing around with a lot of neighborhoods for Lake Street.

That's my opinion.

And I would not have brought that up if we had just focused on the fact that I'm not.

When I say I'm not doing something for power, I'm not.

Thank you.

If you have any questions, you talk to me.

I'm here.

Thank you.

Is anyone else in the ordinance that like to speak on docketed items only?

Please come up.

Name and address, please.

Robert Murray, 75 Debbie Drive Cranston.

Uh I'm here again to speak in opposition to ordinances 42603 and 42604.

I'm not sure what has changed in the last three weeks, but I wanted to follow up on some of the comments and the sales presentation by the chair at the last meeting.

After I sat down last month and the public hearing was closed, the chairman took a shot at me and said, My opposition to these ordinances was based on, and I quote, not going to benefit from this anymore if they pass.

Yes, I am a land use attorney, and I do sometimes represent applicants seeking zoning relief from our merger provisions.

But my practice is not dependent on such work.

In fact, two or three times a month, I will discourage someone from pursuing an application because I think it is too extreme in the relief they may need.

So let's not paint my legitimate concerns for these ordinances, ordinances, anything more than legislation that will only benefit real estate speculators.

Last month, even some of the committee members acknowledged that these ordinances are not going to open the floodgates for affordable housing units or homes for grandma.

The lots will be for developers and flippers, much like the chairman explained last month, uh the business season.

You may remember his slide of the multi-family housing unit, he's building on 2500 square feet with no parking in Providence.

The sponsor waived the bright shiny prospect last month of revenue for all.

These ordinances are the answer to all our prayers and will solve all our financial challenges.

The revenue numbers flashed in front of you are questionable, but more importantly, totally ignore the other half of the equation.

What about the expense side and cost of services to accommodate these new housing units?

What about the absorption rate of development?

Any credible fiscal analysis I've ever been involved in looks at the city and school expense side and assigns a per housing unit cost to the proposed developments.

We produced reports at the printworks and night's corner project by qualified experts who took into consideration fees for tax generation for these developments.

I can't even do this with these ordinances because I don't have the fixed number of units being built, and I cannot legitimately project a real number of their value for tax generation purposes.

The sponsor question the numbers provide, even questioned the sponsors.

I'm sorry, the numbers provided by our well-respected tax assessor because they didn't meet his message.

I say again, these ordinances are nothing more than bonanzas for real estate speculators and developers.

Narrow lots, no on-site parking, neighborhood congestion.

Respectfully, the Andor Hot vision is not what we should embrace for Cranston.

You know that, and we need you to follow your common sense.

Hit the brakes tonight and say no to things like two family houses on 4,000 square foot lots by right.

This unmerger provision ordinance for 3200 square foot lots in the first ordinance will not even comply with the zoning requirements in the second ordinance.

Leave the checks and balances system in place.

There was legitimate reluctance three weeks ago.

I've heard nothing yet tonight that should make us feel any better.

Thank you.

Is there no one else in the ordinance that would like to speak on document items only?

Seeing none.

Anyone online?

There is no public comment online.

No public client.

At this time, I'd like to close public comment.

Moving on to committee uh business matters carried over.

Let's start with uh ordinance 5-2601, or it's amendment of title 8, chapter 8, section 200, City of Cranston Code of Ordinance 2005 entitled outdoor fires.

Um, sponsored by councilwoman president, vice president councilwoman Heroin.

Um the floor is yours.

As I've said in the past, um, the fire department asked for this.

They would like to be able to monitor um propane, natural gas, any kind of fire pits.

Um, also outdoor heaters for our safeties.

They also would like it in the ordinance, which I believe it was added, that it states that these are safe in the United States, that they're not um equipment bought off the internet that could have been manufactured out of the country that is not fire safe here under our regulations.

Um, as we all have visited recent restaurants and have seen these outdoor fire pits without inspections.

That is not safe for us.

This is something the fire department realizes is going on, and they would like the ability to inspect them for the restaurant owner safety for the patrons and for all of us involving natural gas or propane or anything like that.

Should be something the fire department is aware of, so they know what they're dealing with in situations.

I'm asking for your full support tonight.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Any discussion.

Councilman Cumberbill.

Thank you, Chair.

Uh, I want to thank uh Councilwoman Horan for putting this forward.

Uh, I too see those uh huge towers, and who knows if they're safe and people involved.

So I'd like to be added as a co-sponsor, and thank you for bringing this forward.

Councilman Bernano.

I uh thank you.

I will be in full support of this.

I thank um councilman and the fire department for their indulgence.

I didn't mean to delay it by a month.

I thought we could just yeah, I mean that wasn't my intention to to delay it for a month.

I think it's it was it was great, and I'm glad that uh we added what I said, and I too would like to be added as a co-sponsor if the sponsor thank you, councilwoman Vazier.

Um, I also think that this ordinance is great and would like to be added as a co-sponsor as well.

Mayor Traffic Anti would like to be added.

Councilman Ritz.

You can add me also president.

I believe you're on it already.

I guess the whole council will be on this.

So with that clerk, may um call the role.

Councilman Graziano, yes.

Councilman Andy Larry?

Yes, councilman Vazieri, yes, councilman Campa Piano, Councilman Bernano, yes.

Council Vice President Horrian, Council President Wall.

Yes.

All right, motion passes.

Moving on to ordinance four-2603 ordinance amendment of chapter 17 code of ordinances of city of Cranston as amended and title zoning.

This is the unmerged one.

So I'm the sponsor of this, and you know, I really want to thank everybody's public comment, everybody that sent letters.

Oh, and I believe um Ms.

McFarland sent a letter in.

So I would like to um entertain a motion to enter that into the record.

Motion to entertain uh Ms.

McFarland's letter into the record.

Second.

Any discussion?

Clerk, please take a roll.

Councilwoman Garziano, yes, councilman?

Yes, councilwoman Vazieri, Councilman Campa Piano, Councilman Bernano, yes, councilwoman Ryan.

Yeah, council president Wall.

Yes.

All right, let us enter the record.

So back to what I was saying.

First, I want to um thank everybody that said something that had their opinion in this.

Uh I really want to thank President Fryas.

I mean, we're really really extremely lucky in Cranston to have somebody with that talent.

Um, stand-up gentleman always answers the call.

But um the night street is what opened up my eyes on this whole unmerged thing, and I just saw an opportunity.

And I don't want to do this.

I mean, everybody wants their white picket fence and and a huge yard, and they want to play with the dog, and Jose wants to hang around with with Rico and you know, Jessica wants to hang around with Stoffie.

So I mean it's it's the Cranston way, but at the same time, we're in a budget crunch.

Um, Mr.

Murray, another land use attorney, one of the best in the state, um, the best in Cranston, um, very talented.

And you know, I I I take his his opinion, but the problem is is right now we're in a situation where we need we need money, and yeah, you know what the schools, the schools every year we're gonna have to fund them, and the schools are gonna grow either way we look at it.

So I was gonna present a an amendment today, and my amendment, if you could put that slide up, Tom.

And Mr.

Murray, Mr.

Fryers, everybody could go against it, but these are my numbers.

There's a hundred and fourteen unmerged lots that are potential in in ward three.

I re I was gonna recommend a hundred dollar pre-application fee and planning.

That was gonna raise 11,400, an actual application fee to unmerge of 1500, that would raise 171,000.

Building permits are estimated around 9,000.

So that was gonna bring another million dollars into the city, just inspections and standard for a total of 1.7, almost 1.8.

That was just gonna be for the amendment for ward three.

Now, um Mr.

Solicitor, if I'm uh if you could come up, I I believe I can't do this.

So at this time, um, I'm gonna let him speak and then I'm gonna entertain him.

I'm gonna want to continue this.

Yeah, I if my understanding is that you sort of wanted to um make this exclusive to one ward of the city.

Um, zoning is is got to be town wide.

Um, you can't pigeonhole like that.

No, I there are such things as overlay districts.

Um, I would just add that usually with overlaid districts, there has to be an underlying purpose, for instance, a floodplain historic district, uh, airport district.

Um, so I you know, I'm not suggesting thumbs up or thumbs down on on what the next submission will be.

I just point that out that if if you're thinking of coming back with an overlay district, that just be aware that usually those are reserved for some type of specific purpose.

But um, as far as trying to um just have one ward be subject to a particular type of of zoning, um will not fly.

Zoning has to be town wide.

You can have classifications, you can change those all you want, but they have to apply equally to everyone.

So thank you.

And I also want to know for the record that yes, I am a developer, and yes, the house that I'm building on 2500 square foot lot does have parking for four cars.

So I just want to put that on the record.

But at this time, uh I did hire some consultants.

We are working on an overlay district that I will be presenting at the next meeting.

So at this time, I would like to continue this.

Oh, to continue.

Second, any discussion?

Councilman Calpoviano.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

Yeah, I understand where you're going with this, and um, I appreciate your your efforts.

Um, I would like to see if we can get um or hearing two sides here about the the income we would be getting from this.

I'd like to see some type of physical note to this.

I mean, if we get a stop sign, we have it's required.

This is something that could change the face of Cranston.

So it's a pretty this is probably one of the most significant things we've had to vote on in quite a while.

Um, I would like to see some type of official fiscal note tied to this.

See, I mean, I've asked uh the school superintendent, and she gave back the information about each student is 19,500 to send a student to school.

So if I do the math right and you put in a you know a house and you're getting six thousand, seven thousand dollars a year in taxes, it's gonna eat up pretty quick in the next one.

You did it.

So I'd like to see something like tangible that we can look at.

Um also I don't understand uh councilman Graziano had flood issues, so uh maybe those two things come forward before we can make an equated decision on such a significant move.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Councilwoman Graziano.

Thank you.

Um, yeah, I mean, I've done some research and I I just don't feel like my questions have been answered.

So um number one is parking, number two is more we need a stormwater ordinance have one, and then my other question I will reserve for the next one.

So I'm I still need parking and stormwater.

Is there anyone else?

Administration would like to say something.

Oh, oh, councilman councilman banano.

I on its face, I I'm not against these.

Um, I would be more comfortable if when we get to that point.

I'm in favor of continuing it.

Um for a 4,000 and maybe 8,000 square foot lab for a single family 4,000, 8,000 for a for a uh two family.

I just want to throw that out there as you're as you're developing that.

I that that's where my comfort level is at.

Um, I think 3200, while it's possible is tight.

Um, and uh I forgot what the other one was, but um, I think it's five, five four thousand for or five thousand, yeah.

I think that's also tight.

Um, so I would like to see, you know, maybe four and five, a little bit more wiggle room for the parking, especially.

Um, so just I want to throw that out there as sort of my comfort level.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

An ending, I just want to say director.

Oh, sorry.

I just I just want to say that in response to councilman Kimba Piano's request.

I I don't know exactly how a fiscal note would be developed because according to the tax assessor, when figuring a potential increases in value based on the proposed ordinances, we must consider that the lot sizes will be smaller and the allowed buildings will also be smaller based on available land coverage.

There are many variables that we will consider when valuing property, such as lot size, number of bedrooms, baths, and any other amenity that may be present.

Also, we have to consider when these projects may be built.

So he was not comfortable giving giving an actual number.

So I don't know otherwise how you would secure that.

So I don't want there to be expectations that the administration cannot fulfill.

Thank you.

Councilman Camobiano.

Um I understand his concerns.

Um, like I said before, this is a significant change.

I mean, it could backfire and go the other way.

And um, I mean, if it's in all depends on how much the houses are worth, um, if they're going to be affordable housing, if there's children in there, it's it's tough to make a decision of this magnitude without any of the information that we need.

So I I don't know how we're going to get that information, but I like to have at least something to base my vote on.

Anyone else?

See none, clerk, please take a roll.

This is a vote to continue.

Councilman Graziano.

Yeah.

Councilman Andrew.

Yes.

Councilman Vazeri, Councilman Campa Piano, Councilman Bonano.

Yes.

Council Vice President Heroyan?

Councilman Will.

Yes.

All right, moving on to ordinance four-2604, and it's an amendment of chapter 17 court of court of the city of Cranston as amended in title zoning.

This is the 4,000 square foot lot.

Um, same issue as uh one before this.

Um, I will be entertaining a motion to continue.

Motion to continue.

Any discussion?

Councilwoman Graziano.

Um, I would just like and rationale, and I don't know if this is planning department or from you, councilman.

Um, what was the original rationale for 6,000 square feet and 8,000 square feet, and how that came to be initially in the zoning table?

So basically, I I'm the one that craft this stuff, and if you look at a lot of the lots in Cranston, there 8,000 square feet, and I believe in my ward, the majority are in my ward, and you could literally split those lots into two.

So the 6,000 won't work because you you won't be able to get two houses.

Um, like I said, listen.

At the end of the day, I'm trying to create revenue.

We all got the reports.

We're still trending 10 almost 11 million dollars.

So we all need to start figuring out how to create revenue, and this is what I'm doing.

So at the end of the day, when I knock on a door, they're gonna say, What are you doing?

And I'm gonna say, Well, I did this and I did that, and I did this.

So we all need to start figuring out how we're gonna create revenue to help the city instead of just doing stop signs.

So um, at this time, I would like to entertain.

I already entertained the motion to continue.

We're at discussion.

Clerk, please take a roll.

Councilwoman Graziano, yes, councilman Duhar, yes, councilwoman Vazierin, Councilman Campepiano, Councilman Bonano, yes, council vice president, yes, council president Wall.

Yes, all right.

Moving on to new matters before the city council.

Um ordinance 61501, ordinance and amendment of title 10, chapter 12, section 130 of the Cranston Court of Ordnance.

This is titled Right Turns as Certain Red Lights, sponsored by Councilman Bonano.

The floor is yours, sir.

Yes, thank you.

I want to make this quick.

Uh I forgot what month it was.

I want to say November, September.

I don't know.

Um we debated and and we ultimately passed a no right turn on red at Cranston Street against Avenue for it was a request of crossing guards that uh that we did it for.

Um, initially I I wanted to put some times in there and uh there were some questions about that, whether or not it was going to be too confusing.

Um, so ultimately the council through discussion decided we would try it or or pass it with no times through the administration.

The police chief um uh reached out, he wrote a very detailed email about why uh having it all the time wasn't really working out.

And I if you want, I can give you the details of that.

But that was the gist of the email.

So um uh during the budget hearing, we kind of talked uh in the corner, and I said, Well, can we can we do this as a compromise uh to ease some issues with the neighborhood as well as ease some of the traffic during the day and still keep the kids in the crossing guard safe?

So this is the compromise that we came up with um from the hours of 7 to 8 30 a.m.

and 2 to 3 30 p.m.

That encompasses kids walking to Bain as well as uh kids walking to uh perhaps stadium uh school, both ways, two and from school.

So um, and if there's still traffic issues, I guess we'll revisit it later.

Uh but I think this will eradicate most of the problems with the stacking up of cars as well as cars cutting through the neighborhood um to avoid the no right turn on red.

Great, may entertain a motion to approve motion to approve uh discussion, councilman Campobiano.

Uh I want to thank you.

I think uh councilman Bonano for um looking into this.

Uh I waited at that red light and you are correct.

Um, I don't know if we can add school days to that sign.

Can you check with the uh the the colonel or the police or the administration and see if that's a thing?

Because all summer we can go right turn on red if we want to.

If you if I may, through the chair.

Sorry, I would be fine if if you want to amend it that way, that's fine.

And if the chief has a problem, he he can let me know between now and the council meeting, and then if we have to, we'll send it back.

If not, we'll just keep it going forward.

But if you want to amend for that, I encourage you to motion for it.

I have no problem.

Yeah, I'll make a motion that we amend it to say.

So I will withdraw my motion to approve.

You sure you don't have to all right?

So there's an amendment on the floor to add uh school days, school days only on the site.

Yeah, is there a second?

So I'll add the words on school days after this on the so you want to say the line on uh on line 24.

So on line 24, what is it going to be the traffic engineer?

School days only was that work on line 24 yes, all right.

So let's repeat this thing so it's clean.

Uh there's a motion on the floor to amend by councilman Campo Buyano, second in by councilman woman Vizier.

The amendment is as follows on line 24.

Read it.

So line 20.

Well, I'll read I'll read 23 and 24.

Intersection of Cranston Street, Agansett Avenue, southbound onto Cranston Street from the hours of 7 to 8:30 a.m.

and 2 to 3:30 p.m.

on school days only.

Any discussion?

Clerk, please take a roll.

Councilman Graziano.

Yes.

Councilman Enduhar?

Yes.

Councilman Vazieri?

Yes.

Councilman Campa Piano.

Councilman Banano?

Yes.

Council Vice President Royan?

Yes.

Council President Wall.

Yes.

Yeah.

Now may I entertain a motion to approve the amendment?

So moved.

Any discussion.

Clark, please take a roll.

Councilman Graziano.

Yes.

Councilman Enduhar?

Yes.

Council Woman Vizier.

Yes.

Councilman Campa Piano.

Councilman Banano?

Yes.

Council Vice President Haroyan?

Yes.

Council President Wall.

Yes.

May I make a request through the chair?

To Director Ronzuli.

Um, I want to make sure I don't step on anyone's toes, but can you do you mind reaching out to the police chief with the amended version to make sure it's amenable to to him before we go to the next council meeting?

Is that okay?

Yes.

Thank you.

All right, so this does over.

And now we may entertain a motion to approve.

So moved.

As amended.

You already did it.

No, we did go.

So we're good.

All right.

We're not moving on.

Ordinance 61502.

Ordinance and amendment of title 10, chapter 32, section 20 of the city of Cranston Court of Ordinance 2005.

The title stop.

Stop intersections enumerated by Councilwoman Graziano.

Thank you.

Um concerned residents reached out to me on Army.

An Armington Ave runs from Broad Street to Narragansett Boulevard.

And there is a T Street called Marcy Street, and that street heads down to the elementary school of Edgewood Highland.

Where there's lots of kids walking over there.

And at that T Street of Marcy and Armington, there's no stop sign.

However, there is another proceeding stop sign at Patuxet Avenue in Armington.

That's actually not that far away.

So originally I had put this request in through the administration's office to do a number of things.

First of all, get the police to weigh in.

And then also to get a traffic study completed, which I did review for speeding.

The big concern was you know elementary children walking over there and speeding.

But the police did um note that before the traffic study was completed.

Um that they didn't initially think it would hurt installing sign.

Um, and that likely the um speeding study are would result in um a notation that there was actually not that much speeding, which I reviewed um the traffic studies, and there really wasn't that much speeding.

Um I do uh you know, I do have a little bit of pause based on the distance from Marcy Street to Patuxet Avenue in the two stop signs in close proximity.

So I I would like to spend a little bit more time with this, so I'm actually gonna look for a continuance.

Motion so moved.

Any discussion?

Clark, please take a roll.

Councilman Graziano, yes, councilman Duhar?

Yes, councilman Vazieri, councilman campo piano, councilman Bernano, yes, council president royan, yes, council president Wall, yes, all right.

That's continued.

So at this time I'd like to entertain a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

Second all those in favor?

Any discussion?

All those all right, we're the adjourned at 909.