Thank you and welcome everybody to the April 1st, 2026 meeting of the Danbury Planning Commission.

We will open with the roll call.

Mr.

Chiocchio.

Here.

Ms.

Ostetter?

Here.

Mr.

Nazario.

Here.

And Chairman Finalti is here.

We do have a quorum.

We will not uh seat any alternates.

We don't have any alternates to seat at this time.

Um let me open the meeting by reading the standard Zoom intro.

This meeting of the Danbury Planning Commission is being held on Zoom as a virtual meeting.

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Finally, please remember that technology glitches sometimes do occur.

Please be patient if that happens.

Commission members, the minutes of the um March 18th meeting were previously distributed.

Unless there's any corrections or comments, I'll entertain a motion to accept those minutes.

Mr.

Chairman, I'll make a motion to accept the minutes.

Thank you.

Bob do you have a second?

Uh second.

Thank you, Ellen Second.

Any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

All right.

Opposed.

The minutes are accepted.

Let the record show our next regular meeting is scheduled for April 15th, 2026.

Please note your calendars accordingly.

We have no new public hearings this evening, so we're going to go right to item one under our continuation of public hearings.

Item one, Mill Danbury Mill Plane Realty LLC.

Application for special exception, site plan approval for automobile service station, service garage, and convenience markets, sections 3e2, 3e9, 5B2B1, and 9 with trip generation greater than 500 vehicle trips per day in the CA80 zone.

85 Mill Plain Road D14013, special special exception number 805.

Some information uh regarding this application was uh distributed to the commission members.

And at this time, I will ask anyone wishing to speak in favor of this application to speak now.

Anyone in favor of this application.

Does the applicant have anyone wishing to speak on their behalf?

Um first of all, Mr.

Chairman, this is Larry Webster.

I'm representing Benish for the engineering firm in this case.

I just got a phone call from the attorney who's trying to get in and apparently is not being successful.

Here he is.

I see him.

Yeah.

Okay.

I would prefer that he start off.

Understood.

Oh.

We'll give him a minute.

There he is.

There he is.

Sorry about that.

The internet went out and I was scrambling.

I was gonna go on my cell phone.

Uh Cohen and Wolf.

Great email.

My apologies.

Sorry about that.

No problem again.

Again, if you just state your name and affiliation for the record, you can go straight into your presentation.

Sure.

Uh, attorney Josh Pedrera, Cohen and Wolf on behalf of the applicant.

Um thank you, um, Chairman and Commission.

My apologies again on the delay trying to get in here.

So I know this is not our first time meeting.

Um, so I know we've gone at it a few times, but hopefully, this time um we have submitted uh revised plans.

Um we have responded to uh most of the feedback, I believe, at this point.

So um hopefully we can have a pretty substantive uh conversation.

Uh, with me tonight are the project engineers, uh Larry Webster, Connor McNamara, uh Ryan.

Ryan, I apologize on the butchering of your name if you're here.

Is Ryan going to be here, Larry?

He may be, but he will probably be joining us late.

All right, so I don't have to butcher his name.

As well as uh Deborah Downey, who is the LEP on this project.

Um, like I said, we've we've already made kind of uh a prior introduction on the project at earlier meetings.

Um, so I don't want to spend too much time reiterating those things previously mentioned.

Um, as you know, I think you all are pretty familiar with the site at this point.

Um, so uh with that being said, I just wanted to address um you know, any and all concerns regarding the project, um, including those pertaining to stormwater traffic, uh, environmentally sensitive concerns regarding the uh public watershed, um, some of the remediation that's been conducted on the property to date as well, and then just the extent of the work that's going to be conducted um as it relates to the tanks and other upgrades, et cetera.

And so hopefully the team can answer most of those questions.

Um, like I indicated, we've uh we've received extensive feedback um as well as additional comments from the various departments since our last meeting in February.

Uh most of that has been addressed.

We submitted revised site plans and architectural drawings, um, as well as revised stormwater management report, I believe back on March 19th, if I'm not mistaken.

Um, and then just to briefly uh revisit an overview of the project, just to give an introduction, and then I can let the team kind of take over from there.

Um, I think most of you know the site pretty well.

Uh historically, the site is operated as a gas station that also involved auto repair and body shop work.

Um, the site's uses are pre-existing, non-conforming, um, but the applicant has agreed to essentially reduce that nonconformity.

Um, and so he's really going to eliminate those repair uses.

He's simply going to operate it as a gas station for all intents and purposes, as well as a uh convenience store with uh accessory storage.

Um the applicant's going to continue to operate two fueling dispensers in addition to the convenience store.

Um, he's also proposing to demolish the addition in the rear to structure uh the rear structure to accommodate traffic, traffic and additional parking.

Um there's going to be significant improvements made to the property, including uh concrete driveway aprons, concrete curbing, uh sidewalks along the frontage, uh improved lighting, landscaping, um, among other substantial improvements.

So we previously discussed upgrades involving the uh fueling facilities.

Um they're going to install a new concrete island, a new canopy.

There's going to be upgrades to the lines.

Um, I know that we did have some discussion at the last meeting when we did meet about the tanks.

Um, we can revisit that.

There's not going to be complete replacement of the tanks, um, although their life um their life use has not been reached yet.

And I'm sure we can touch on that and Larry can provide um specific feedback to that.

Um, in addition to that, traffic reports have been submitting uh illustrating that there's no real adverse impact to the traffic operations uh at or around the site, no significant increase to traffic volume.

Um stormwater management report was updated a couple of weeks ago.

That was also submitted with the revised plans.

Um, I believe Connor will be able to address that more specifically.

Um, and he can address any feedback, any questions from the commission on that.

Um, and then finally, as I indicated previously, Deborah's present.

Um, she's responded to some of the comments and feedback.

Um, she did acknowledge that the site is within the public water supply watershed zone area.

However, it is not located within the final aquifer protection area, nor does it qualify as um an environmentally sensitive area, at least as defined in the regulations.

So Deborah, I'm sure can provide some insight um on the environmental cleanup as well that has been ongoing um for quite some time.

She can answer any questions from the commission as well.

Um that's really it.

Like I said, I don't want to get into too much detail.

This is I think our second, I think third time that I've essentially introduced the project.

So with that being said, I'll turn it over um to Larry to see if he he wants to add anything in addition to that.

Um, if not, we can certainly take um, you know, feedback, questions, inquiries from the commission.

Yeah, the only thing I'd like to to uh mention at this point.

There was an unresolved question concerning the underground tanks.

So just again before just because we uh we do transcribe these um your name and affiliation for the record and already I I did that before and I forgot to repeat.

So Larry Webster with Benish with the engineering firm representing the um uh uh applicant.

Okay.

Uh and there was a leftover question concerning the existing underground tanks at the last minute.

The question was why are you not replacing the existing underground tanks?

You're upgrading everything else, you're digging it all up.

Uh and the simple answer is that the uh state of Connecticut has recently changed the regulations uh regarding underground tanks, and they had uh a lifespan, a maximum lifespan for underground tanks was 30 years previously.

These tanks have about nine years to go on that original 30 year lifespan.

But subsequent to the revised regulations, they've recognized that these particular tanks, a double-wall fiberglass tank, uh can last far longer than 30 years.

They they've attached some conditions that need to be completed before you can get the extended lifespan.

Uh, but they are upgradable to the point where they can have a 45-year lifespan, which will kick them pretty far down the road.

Uh and uh if they run out of life at that point, I'm skeptical of whether they would be put back in.

There probably wouldn't be enough uh gasoline sales traffic by that time to justify the what it would actually cost to replace the tanks.

They're they're getting very expensive, more expensive by the day.

Uh so that uh I hope will resolve that question.

Uh they have a reasonable expectation that they can get 90 more years out of them.

So at least so uh he doesn't want to go the expense right now of updating them.

If we can get this place open and operating, and he has to do it down the road, at least he'll have you know hopefully some return on his initial investment that he can reinvest in it at that point.

Thank you, Larry.

Yeah, Mr.

Webster, just a quick question.

I know um there's several methods to test the uh the uh a tank, an underground tank to make sure they're not leaking a static test, whatever the case may be.

Um, so what happens after a certain number of years, um, you're required to have a series of tests done and um uh prove that it's not leaking.

Just walk me through then again, not extensively, just give me the overview.

Yeah, okay.

Uh let me go first, Sammy.

Okay.

Okay, because I would have you jump in on some of this.

Uh, but first of all, I want to explain that we're we're putting in basically testing equipment.

Continue.

So the level in the tank is continuously monitored during the operation.

The um the piping is monitored for leakage continuously.

Uh, and there's uh a sensor in the annular space between the two walls.

This is basically a tank inside of a tank that detects any kind of leak from the inner tank into the outer tank.

So that will be in place when we're done now.

What would have to be added down the road is the capability to continuously monitor the outer shell of the tank also at the simultaneously at the same time.

So it'd be a different system than the one that's there now.

It'll be a different sensor, a different uh different technology.

Um, it may be able to be.

I mean, some of this stuff is still in development, so I don't know all the details yet.

Since they passed that, there's been a mad rush to develop these systems to retrofit tanks.

Uh, and I know there's some coming down the line.

And at this point, I would say if Sammy knows more about this than I do, I would defer to him.

Yeah.

Um, can you hear me?

Thank you.

Can I comment?

Yeah, sure.

Just say again your name and your affiliation and go right ahead.

Hi, my name is Sammy Jamel.

I'm the applicant, uh, the owner of the property, and I have also my son Jamel joined us.

He's in is in also this.

So we do have uh uh regard gas stations, you know.

We we have a few sites in Damber already.

We have this site in Main Street, 464 North Main Street that we built about seven years ago, and we have 419 Main State also in the mobile station in the corner.

Regarding testing the tanks, we have we go with uh a major company called Atlas Environmental.

They are the biggest outfit.

So basically to the Connecticut state, there is mandatory inspections to be done every six months and every year.

And we have monthly inspections done every month to this site.

So in order for us to get our renewal gasoline license dealer, we have to have all the testing up to date.

So you know, on in top of this, you know, we're doing all the lines are gonna be brand new.

I'm gonna have a be the root machine.

A bit of the road is like a computer that says exactly how many gallons you have in the ground, how many gallons you receive in the delivery, how many gallons you sold.

If you're missing something, that will you know give you a red alarm.

So the this the laws in Connecticut is very strict in you know how you're gonna extend the lifetime expectancy of the tanks, not only the other 10 years, but it's like a test that have to be done every month.

Um tests have to be done a couple of times a year in order for you to be operating as a gas station.

Yeah, uh this is not about this is not our first rodeo.

We have like 30 locations throughout the state of Connecticut, you know.

And uh we've been waiting to upgrade and renovate and modernize this location for the past three years now, which has been like uh much longer than we expected, you know, to start the work there.

Thank you.

No, thank you for that clarification.

I thought it just to get that on the record.

It is an environmentally sensitive area, so thank you for that.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Do you uh I'm my name's Jay.

Uh, would you like me to explain how they are tested through the state?

Um while we're on it, if you could give us uh an overview, uh that would be but again, it's uh now again.

I don't I don't see your your I see your name there.

You have to state your full name and affiliation.

There's just a few things here.

Yeah, hi.

My name is Jay Jamal, uh Sammy's son, applicant's son.

Uh regarding this uh site.

So regarding for the lines, what they do every six months and every year, it's a state regulated.

They come out and do a line testing, uh, you know, a phase one test where they would pressurize all the lines going to the tanks, coming back from the tanks to make sure there's no leakage, so that you know that there is nothing coming out.

And you know, so they do the line test every single six months, they come out and do that manually.

But through our Veter system, that to the Veter system every day at 2 a.m., it does it automatically.

It does it by itself as well.

If anything happens, you know, alarm pops up and the notification goes straight, you know, to the supplier and you know, and to us where we would have to come out and pressurize the lines and see what's going on.

But even besides that, uh, you know, a company comes out once a month as well to check everything, the sub pumps, you know, check every piece of equipment to make sure everything's up to state with uh you know Connecticut regulations.

That that's great.

And I I thank you for that additional information.

It's very reassuring to know that the the testing is continuous.

It's it's oh, yes.

Okay, good.

I'm not not to interrupt uh Mr.

Webster.

I didn't know if you were done or not, but I wanted to get that question in while you were on that subject.

Uh barring further questions, uh, I'm as far as I know, I'm all set.

I responded to everything at the last meeting.

We've responded to everything from engineering.

Uh we don't have a response to our response yet, but we addressed every question that they sent us, everything that planning sent us.

Um, and I think we have one.

Well, not my area, so but everything that we were given from planning and engineering was addressed and sent back to them about two weeks, two, three weeks ago.

Thank you.

Attorney Pedrera.

You're on mute.

My apologies.

Um, yeah, just one thing to just build off of that.

Um, as far as I am aware, we have responded to everything.

Um, I did see some commentary.

Um today, um, construction commentary.

Um, I did speak with Larry about that.

Um, I we didn't identify any issues with that attached to that.

That was really just with respect to um the concrete um aprons, uh five feet wide, just with respect to the grade, um, as well as the crosswalk on Westwood.

Um, so again, I did speak well uh to Larry about that.

Um, we did not see those comments.

I think those came in um about a week ago or so, if I'm not mistaken.

Um, but in any event, so we have just to clarify for the record, um, we have addressed everything to date, as far as we know.

Um, there were those lingering construction comments, which again should should not present any issue.

I don't see any issue with that, neither does Larry.

So we can accommodate that.

That was it was pretty straightforward though.

Okay, um, I see you have some other people on.

Um let's say Mr.

McNamara, Ms.

Downey.

Were there any were you planning on having any of these other folks do a presentation?

Um, not not specifically, no, just um based upon our last conversation.

I know that they were um pointed concerns um from an environmental perspective.

So um Deborah did respond to those.

And so if there was any uh follow-up on that or clarification, she also has um extensive involvement with the site cleanup.

Um so she could opine on that as well if the commission wanted further um details on that.

Um and then Connor can also speak to uh storm water.

Um I'll let Larry also chime in on that.

Yeah, that's fine.

Um perhaps Ms.

Downey could just again give us a flyover.

Um I mean, I know I don't, you know, we don't need a line-by-line um recitation, but um what you what the concerns were and how you address them.

Um yes, my name's Deborah Downey.

I'm with Haley and Aldrich.

I'm a senior technical specialist and licensed environmental professional.

So I've been involved in this site um with regards to the investigation and remediation that needs to happen under the Connecticut Transfer Act.

Um we have some much work has already been done.

I know you've seen some older reports, but there was actually a lot of work that was done that just was never written up.

The site has been investigated, and most of that work has been done.

We have a little bit of data gap work to do, but we've been actually waiting for the final site plans.

Because we want to be able to test areas where, for instance, where that building's coming down, the additions coming down.

Um, we will also be installing some replacement monitoring wells for some of the older wells.

And and I was gonna comment that those wells include wells that are downgradient of the tanks, and we have not seen an issue from the tanks.

Um, and we will be doing a minimum of one year of quarterly monitoring of those wells.

Um once we get to the point where we're done with the remediation.

And in terms of the remediation, there's been a significant amount of excavation and so removal there.

Um anything that remains is like at depth below the building.

Um there's one, as I said, area kind of out in the back by the building, they're taking down that we're gonna do a couple additional tests just to confirm that that's clean.

We will be reporting and submitting our reports to Connecticut Deep.

And um, the goal will be to get the site verified and closed in the next couple years.

Thank you for for that.

Um, let me just before we leave that issue.

Any commission members have any questions on the environmental aspects of this particular application?

Anything okay.

Good.

Thank you, Ms.

Downey.

Um Thank you.

Attorney Pedrera, anybody else, Mr.

McNamara?

Anything?

Where'd he go?

Nothing from me.

Okay.

Mr.

Webster.

Yes.

Yes, thank you.

Um Attorney Pedrera has not met him yet, but we have with us tonight Mohammedul Hassan, who is our traffic engineer.

Uh we were requested to have him present in just to address whatever questions you might have concerning the traffic.

Yes, um, again, uh I would ask um, and I know it was commented earlier that um this particular application does not present traffic issues that, in the opinion of the applicant, are so serious, you know, as to justify a um a traffic presentation.

Um we we did see the report and we have our own traffic engineers report.

But Mr.

Hassan, if you would indulge us, um, tell us what, and again, we all read that report, we read the conclusion, but just give us your opinion of the um the traffic impact or uh issues, if any, of this application.

Hello.

Uh, can everyone hear me?

Well, yes, yes.

Okay.

Uh I'm Mamud Rasan.

Um, I am a licensed professional engineer, uh working as a traffic engineer at Binish.

So I have the chance to review the traffic impact study.

Um, so Steven Ulman um uh worked on this report, and I'm in the process of trying to uh getting the responsibility from him.

So I had the chance to review the report based on the report, what I am seeing that the current um um uh existing um uh property has like um um uh uh one gasoline this two gasoline dispenser and uh one autorepair shop with 7,000 square feet.

So uh uh the new proposed uh structure will have uh uh the same dispenser, like two dispensers uh with four fueling institutions and um 218 conveniences tour.

So um it's a little bit smaller uh establishment.

Um and um uh for these um uh uh location we did crash analysis uh from we collect crash data from July of 2022 to June of 2025, three years of crash data, and we found total seven crashes.

Uh I reviewed those crashes, and it doesn't look like uh do uh any kind of geometric improvement would help those safety issues.

So it is not uh like um uh in terms of safety, I don't see any issue.

And for um the traffic uh future traffic generation, we used those numbers for IT trip generation and get the numbers of around uh um 49 uh for uh morning and uh 52 for afternoon uh traffic generation, but um uh most of these numbers are will be passed by trip.

So pass by trip means like the uh trips will be happening even if the new proposed uh development will not be there.

So like someone will take make a stop at the gas station on their current trip.

So um according to IT standard, uh it is around 87% of the new uh generated trips would be pass by trip.

Uh but for uh C T DOT uh um we um have a conservative uh estimate of 55 percent.

And based on that, we we also uh get the traffic movement data on the in only one signalized intersection at uh mill plane road and um westwood route.

Uh I I believe the turning movement data was collected uh in September 2025.

So we actually converted it to 2026 data by forecasting 1.5% um traffic route, and then also add the you know, uh based on the IT trip generation, we added it and distributed into the network.

And what I saw like uh for that uh signalized intersection at uh uh mill plane road and um uh Westwood Road, uh the uh level of service would be A, and there would be two um existing driveway.

So there those two driveway will operate as D, which is within our you know, um acceptable range.

So uh in terms of safety and uh traffic efficiency, I don't see any issue uh for this proposed development.

Thank you.

And in your your report, you you never intended to study overall traffic of mill plane road.

You're studying specifically the impact of this particular use at that particular location, correct?

Yes.

So you didn't do traffic counts on mill plane or anything like that.

Uh again, um uh Estee Bullmann did that study.

So uh for that study, I believe we uh only traffic data was collected on that intersection, not for the whole corridor.

That's a pretty you know uh significant data we would need.

Okay.

Commissioner members, anything for Mr.

Hassan on traffic?

Bob Kyokio?

Yeah, I I uh I think this would be for traffic.

So um I'm wondering about the uh ingress and egress to the property, and um I believe that the property it's gonna be a uh a one-way circle around uh coming in.

I think that's probably about the east side.

Uh so east side entrance and around the building, and then coming out on the west side, and then the same thing.

Um, and I believe, and if you can refresh uh my memory here, uh going to the gas pumps again, it's gonna be one way going kind of from the I'll call it the east side to the west side.

Um so I if if you can confirm that, and then the uh the uh ingress will that be um kind of a right turn only in on mill plane road, or will there be cars uh traveling uh east on mill plane be able to make a left-hand turn in there?

And then same thing on the uh egress.

Can they uh is it gonna be right turn only out of there or can they make a left turn onto mill plane road?

And then can you also comment um uh about queuing at the gas pumps to the extent how many uh what's the capacity there for queuing?

We might have mentioned some of that, but I don't I don't recall.

Uh okay.

So um I believe we are talking about the side drive.

So there are two side drives in there.

So um uh would we allow uh left turn or only right turn there?

So uh based on uh the um traffic flow diagram I'm seeing, we would allow the left and the right turn both from that uh you know um uh exit or entrance of this driver.

So yeah.

And um uh sorry, what was the other question?

Yeah, so so uh left and right turns from both into and and out of the property.

That's what I'm seeing, yes.

Yeah, yep.

Okay, and then can you can you uh comment a little about uh queuing at the gas pumps, the capacity there?

Uh I have to check and I can get back to you.

I I have I did not see that report yet.

So I I can take, but um, based on the level of service, it's uh within like uh uh level of service D.

So it would be acceptable, it would be acceptable within our end.

Okay.

So uh just to hold on one second.

Um just to clarify.

Um you said the uh the level of service at the intersection of Westwood and Mill Plain was A.

But then you just mentioned level of service D.

What which intersection has a level of service D.

The two drivers.

Well, the two okay, okay.

The two driveways have their own separate level of service.

Right, right.

And you will um, because I think we have to keep the public hearing open.

I'll confirm that at the end of this.

But uh if you could just double check on the queuing at the pumps, uh, as per Mr.

Kyokio's question, maybe next next hearing we have to open it up again.

We can uh you can sure uh Mr.

Mr.

Webster, did you have a comment?

Uh yeah, uh a little a little bit.

Um at present we're we expect bi directional traffic at both driveways, but we are working with DOT.

Uh uh and that is not without it's not outside the realm of possibility that they will uh restrict us on either of them uh for write out only or or whatever.

So we don't know yet for sure what they're gonna what they're gonna have us do.

Um but as so far they have not restricted us, other than this to say they wanted one driveway in and one driveway out.

Um we probably have queuing for about four cars, I would guess.

Uh we also have fueling positions for four cars uh at our expected level of trips.

I I just don't see that causing a backup.

There's enough pumps to handle the uh the expected volume of traffic expeditiously and not back up.

Mr.

Jamal, I thought I saw you raise your hand.

Did you want to comment on that?

I think yes, thank you.

I think Larry answered my answer.

Thank you.

Commission members anything else on traffic at this point?

Mr.

Kyoku.

Yeah, uh I I'm not sure if this is traffic generated uh or not, but um I'll ask it now.

Um so going around when the when the uh customers park in the rear, um, and then they have to walk into the and they're gonna walk into the store.

Um they have to walk.

I I believe there's gonna be a sidewalk on the side of the building that they would walk and then going uh the entrance of the building is in the front.

Um I'm just concerned a little bit about um walking from the rear parking spots across across the walkway there to get to that sidewalk.

And I'd like to make sure that uh uh there's uh uh painted crosswalk or some kind of uh uh to help with safety with with the pedestrians there with you know kind of cars coming around the corner if they're if they're uh you know going a little bit fast and around that corner to to maybe get to the side parks or to to get out of the place.

So uh I just want to make sure we're uh the pedestrians will be safe walking from those parking spots uh along that sidewalk and into the building.

Yeah, I'm not sure how we can accommodate that, but at least have some discussion about that.

Um I would ask the applicant, are you aware of any um signage or painting or crosswalks required?

Um at any point in your parking lot or or no?

I mean I believe we do have sidewalk in front of the of the store and sidewalk around the building.

Okay, that's how the plans call for.

Okay.

Helen, please.

Mr.

Chairman, I don't know.

If we go over some of these points in this discussion again next time.

I think it would be very helpful if we get a screen up that everybody can see to just help us digest uh what it is that is gonna happen, because I I think it's helpful from the standpoint of looking at potential limitations and and just now well we we can we can do that right now if you'd like.

Well, okay, I don't uh Mr.

Chairman, I'll yield to you.

Well, yeah, well, um we have a couple of as Helen mentioned, we have a couple of open items, you know, queuing at the pumps, um signage, crosswalks, this type of thing.

So seeing that we're gonna leave the public hearing open, why don't we do two things at the next meeting?

One, share a screen, you know.

Uh and actually I've got the uh the diagram in paper form here, but just I just can't share my screen.

So next meeting we'll share the screen and we'll just address those issues uh very briefly.

Um if that's okay.

Thank you.

That would be helpful.

When we're discussing crosswalks and the concerns we're talking about in the rear of the parking lot from from uh presumably where um they're parking and then crossing back over to get to the building.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes.

My my concern is that um uh I'm just concerned about pedestrian safety, just walking along the driveway.

And I would like something so that they can be guided um into that into the crosswalk area.

Obviously, they have to cross the the I'll call it the roadway or the driveway area, but um I'd rather not them try not to be all over the place.

And so if there's something, whether it's a painted crosswalk or something like that, that that can be done just to help guide them and and try to uh create uh a little less um uh issues for the for the pedestrians crossing that way.

And and and I understand that there is a there is a uh I believe there's a uh uh sidewalk along the side of the building which they can walk on, and and and that's and that's fine.

I see a hand up for Jay Jamal.

Yes, sorry.

Uh so regarding the property, there is a signage on the front awning, like the the front of it, but it's not a tall one, it's a short one.

But there is no sidewalk in front of the building, just grass, like uh, I would say uh like two feet wide of grass, and then the shoulder.

So in the property next next door to us, you know, the tile center and someone all the way down the pin road, there is no public sidewalk.

Yeah, no, we're not looking for a public sidewalk along the road.

There's one across the street, yeah, yeah, on our side of the street.

Yeah, no, no.

I I think um what Mr.

Kyokio is referring to is if you look at the site diagram, again, I gotta I have it here.

Um, when you're when you're sort of looping behind the building, it's a blind curve.

Um you know, you go behind the building, and his concern is somebody's going too fast, you go around the blind curve.

And if you're if the applicant's position is you don't need to put signage up or or paint, then that's just tell us.

But for example, we just approved a gas station convenience store over on Germantown Road, and they did do some fairly significant painting on the um uh uh the pavement in front, right directly in front of the building, which sort of signifies that you really safety or or caution or whatever the case may be.

So just at the next meeting, just let us know.

And again, if you don't feel it's necessary, just tell us.

That's all.

Yeah, when when you mean like uh you're talking about like behind the actual physical of the building itself, yes, behind it.

So not on this, not on the part of the building space, it's mill plane, the the back part where the parking spaces are.

Okay.

Okay, yeah.

Let us know.

Okay, yeah, not a problem.

Very good.

Commission members, anything else on traffic or uh Mr.

Chairman, I I'm a little bit confused now.

So uh just going back to the crosswalk, there is gonna be a new crosswalk in the fr along Mill Plane in the front, correct?

It looks like that on the drawing at least, and then oh there is gonna be uh some kind of painted walk, uh crosswalk across uh Westwood.

Isn't that in the drawing or no?

I it sounded like he said that they weren't gonna do anything like that, but I thought the print plan showed that.

I cannot there's a crosswalk shown on Mill Plain here.

I'm I apologize.

Yeah, no, I have I have my plan show by my computer here.

So I thought I heard him say that they're not gonna do that.

No, I think that was more as to existing conditions.

You are correct in that the plan the plans do call for that.

That's correct to eliminate any confusion.

So there's a crosswalk across Westwood, and then the improvements with the concrete walk across the frontage.

That's correct.

Okay, okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Um, if I could just jump in for a second, um Connor McImara representing Benish.

Um, I could get a share screen up so you guys can all actually take a look at this.

Oh good that'll help make this a lot easier for everybody.

Um so hopefully you guys can see this.

Uh you're talking about this area up here, right?

Correct.

I okay.

There we go.

Can we guys see this screen?

Or yes, yeah.

Okay.

But this is the area referring to, uh, right behind the building, right where the right next to the loading zone, correct?

Yes.

Okay.

And then uh that little strip on the left side, as we're looking at the building, that's gonna be a walkway, right?

For the for the customers to walk uh towards the front.

That's correct.

Okay.

And so what I what I was what I would like to see is maybe some sort of kind of painted, at least painted crosswalk from the edge of that walkway right there, kind of towards the back, or or I'm not sure how it would have to be shaped, but just as a as a guide for the at least to try to not everybody's going to do it, but at least to try to make the uh customers walk, you know, in in a in a smaller area across that walkway to get to that sidewalkway.

Yep, that shouldn't be a problem.

We already have the sidewalk front with a building and side with the building.

So in the back, we can just extend the the painting to lead them to the sidewalk.

Yeah.

I think that would be I think that would be awesome.

Thank you.

Yes, that will be done.

Shouldn't I have a problem?

Thank you.

Okay, thank you for that.

And thank you for sharing that screen.

I no problem.

I didn't want to cut you guys off, or I would have pulled it up earlier, but no, a picture's worth a thousand words.

So that's good.

We cleared that up.

So thank you.

Uh, Commissioner members, before we leave traffic, uh, was there anything else for any anybody?

No, that's good.

Okay, well, um, attorney Pedrera, we've heard from your whole team, I think.

Um, unless you have anything else, I'll I'll call the opposition, if any.

Um, no, I think we um I think we we touched on everything.

Um, as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah.

Okay, thank you.

Is there anyone else wishing to speak in favor of this application?

Anyone else in favor?

Is there anyone else wishing to speak in favor of this application?

Mr.

Chairman, yeah.

Hold on, Paul.

You can take down that shared screen, Connor.

You can take that down.

We're good.

Sounds good.

Uh Councilman Rotella.

Rotel.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Where's Hermione when you when we need her?

Rotello, Rotello.

Okay, for the record, Paul Rotunnel, 13 minute place, Danbury.

Um, also for the record, six port city council.

We are actually across the street, but we split middle plane, so it's gonna have an effect on the uh six port.

That's why I'm here.

I appreciate the um information on the tank.

30 years ago, I was looking at a building in the Hartford area, had a big tank, 9,000 gallon uh uh heating oil tank.

It's like diesel field or kerosene.

I hired a company at my expense from northern Connecticut, they've been around since the civil war doing a lot of defense work, and they tested that tank.

It took five days, they injected a gas into it.

They monitored the temperature, you know, when it's cold, it's denser, when it's hot, it's lighter.

They were pretty sophisticated after five or ten days, they told me there was no leaks.

Um, and I can't imagine that after 30 years, it's gotten worse.

Um I'm I'm guessing the technology has gotten even better.

So I'm fairly confident about the procedures going forward.

But uh as has been mentioned on multiple occasions, this is an extremely sensitive area.

And I don't just mean there's water there.

What I mean is there's water there that we drink.

So this is this is a very important uh watershed for the city of Danbury.

So we have to be extra careful about the uh about any tanks, any uh petroleum distillates or any anything that's being stored within that watershed.

If we blow this, it means uh we can't develop, and that would mean that we wouldn't be able to build gas stations or anything else.

So it's it's part and parcel health safety and welfare, but also commerce tax space grand list.

There's a lot of moving parts of this.

We really have to be careful, and I'm fairly confident that uh the Jamals are uh are on top of this.

So I'm I'm here tonight, not because of that.

That that's been essentially answered.

Um I'm here for a very narrow specific reason.

It was my understanding, and again, this this meeting has been going for a long time.

They seem to remember back when maybe Neil Marcus was doing this that he mentioned, or one of the engineers mentioned that there was only going to be one lane between the island and the building.

So if the if the if we're oriented coming in on the east, leaving on the west, east-west, this would be the northern section of the island.

I'm guessing, although don't you know hold me to that, but the area between the island and the building sounded as if it was only going to be one lane wide, which would mean that there's not enough room if a car pulls in for another car to go by.

What that also means is that if you pull in and your tank is on the wrong side, and a lot of people blow this, a lot of people forget where their their filler is on their tank.

Um, and the hose isn't long enough.

I brought this up a couple of weeks ago at a different meeting.

When I was a kid, everybody, every gas station had hoses that were like 40 miles long.

It didn't make any difference how where where you pulled in the the guy was doing the filling and he wasn't messing around, he would just grab the hose, and no matter where if your thing was behind the license plate or on the roof of your car, it made no difference the hose is long enough.

But these days, hoses are pretty short.

And if you've got an SCV like an expedition escalated and you blow it, you can't get the hose on the other side.

Places like BJs do have hoses that are long enough.

And I I would simply request that the Jamals, if this is the issue of people cannot turn around and they screw this up, they're not going to be able to back up.

They can't go forward, they have to wait.

Can they at least assure us that they will put in hoses that are long enough so that no matter where the fill is on your vehicle, and no matter the size of your vehicle, you will be able to fill it regardless of what size that is on.

Uh so that's issue number one.

Issue number two, obviously, is traffic, always traffic on mill plane.

We are considering putting in a firehouse, it's actually a little bit more than a consideration, but the plan's about to finalize.

Uh, we're considering putting in a firehouse to service the west side of Danbury, in particular uh a um a neighborhood near and dear to the chairman's heart, the uh reserve.

And it's going to be hard enough getting those tankers down to the reserve between six and nine in the morning and say three and seven in the afternoon when there's heavy traffic on mill plane, that we don't need people struggling to get in and out of convenience stores.

And I get it that the place has been there already operating for 50 years.

I've been there, I've rented vehicles there, I've gotten gas there and repairs.

I get all of that.

A lot of that stuff is scheduled.

You don't usually just drop in to pick up an RB or a truck, usually call ahead.

Um, same thing with scheduled repair.

Convenience stores are a little bit different, hence their name, convenience impulse.

People will be pulling in on a whim to get some donuts to get some coffee, maybe to get a hot dog or an egg sandwich or a soda or water or something like that.

You really can't depend on them.

And the idea that they will let you know in advance and warn you that they've got to come in and pick up a couple of bags of ice for an impromptu uh school reunion party.

So the idea that they're they're basically traffic flows are going to be identical to what's happened in the past.

I think maybe in the aggregate, probably fairly accurate, but when it comes to peaking, it's going to be a little bit different with a convenience store.

I will defer to the Jamals are in this business, but we all shop at convenience stores, and and we have a pretty good idea of people running in because they'll the you know Powerball hit a billion bucks and they're and they're you know, they got to get on the gravy train.

So we just want to be careful and we want to be assured that the left-hand turns in particular coming out of the uh service, not the service station, coming out of the filling station, are not going to be uh adding to backups on mill plane during uh periods of high capacity.

So those two things the this the really simple thing, a long enough hose and and the traffic just to make sure.

And I understand you're still waiting on DOT to give you the go-ahead as to whether you'll be doing um you know by bi-directional or unidirectional.

And I I yeah, I I can wait until the next meeting.

But man, I've been waiting for a really long time about the hoses.

So if you could assure me about those hoses tonight, I would certainly appreciate that.

Thank you, uh, Mr.

Chairman, and and and thank you to the Jamal family.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Paul.

I'm gonna call the rest of the opposition, then I'm going to pose two questions to the applicant.

Is there anyone else wishing to speak in opposition to this application?

Anyone else in opposition?

Is there anyone wishing to speak in opposition to this application?

Um, attorney Pedrera, Mr.

Jamal, tell me about length of hoses.

Or Mr.

Mr.

Webster, whoever your expert would be on that.

Uh I can tell I can address that very easily.

Uh, it would be to our advantage to include that in this situation.

The cost is insignificant.

Um, I'm can categorically state that we'd be happy to do that.

All right.

Mr.

Jamal, is that an issue at any of your gas stations?

Length of hoses, do they all go to the other side of the car nowadays?

I mean, tell me a little bit about that.

No, we don't have an issue, you know, in some locations when we have like two pumps like this, we usually install long hoses, you know.

But this is the side to, you know, we were planning to put more uh pumps, but I believe uh the town or the city, they tied up to the existing two pumps that there is now, and that's how it is.

You know, we're doing all this improvements only for two pumps.

I wish I can have three pumps there, you know.

We'll have six cars falling at the same time.

But uh we'll be glad to include the the long hoses for those two bumps, you know.

So this way, if somebody made a mistake, their trunk, their tank is not the right, the not the left, they still can pump it.

Shouldn't be a problem.

They don't have to drive around and try to to get it to the tank.

Okay, thank you for that.

Thank you.

And um, in terms of uh uh room, if uh someone is pulled up to the pump to get gas, um, is there room to get by them to get out of there?

If somebody pulls into the gas station by accident and goes, oh, I just want to leave.

Is there adequate room to get by them to to exit, or would they have to wait for them to finish pumping gas?

Larry can comment on that.

Yeah, they would they would they can pass on the street side of the fueling operation.

There's plenty of room on that side for car to pass by.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right, listen.

Um Allie, um, I know there's some back and forth going on.

You can you tell me where we are on this from the staff point of view?

Yes.

Um, staff received the revised plans and response letters on Monday, the March 23rd.

Um, so just about a week ago, um, we were in receipt of those revised plans and the response letters.

Um staff is currently reviewing.

Um, I know Rob Barone from Construction Services still had some outstanding comments related to that sidewalk and crosswalk um along Mill Plain Road and Westwood Drive.

Um my staff report, I'm still currently reviewing the response letter, as well as um the engineering department is also reviewing their um response letter.

Um, so we are not necessarily in a position to close this public hearing um just to allow staff adequate time to review the revised plans and response letters.

Okay, should we get some sort of commitment from attorney Pedrera that you'll grant the extension uh necessary to continue this till our next meeting?

Absolutely.

Yes, it'd be a 14-day extension.

Okay, sure.

Thank you for that.

Um yeah, before I ask for a motion to continue, uh just a comment.

You know, this is this application for whatever reason, good or bad, it's been around for a while.

I think it's it's it's really it's really a hardship.

It's been three years.

We we're trying to improve this building and bring something much nicer to the area.

Um we've been three years back and forth, which is you know, I know I understand your frustration, sir.

And uh we we we try to move things along with best we can.

So what I'm saying to my commission is um uh this will this will show up on our agenda at our next meeting.

I really don't we had we've just asked the applicant about you know 50 minutes of questions here.

I don't want to retry the case at our next meeting.

I I really I don't want to repeat anything we've already talked about tonight.

There's some clarification, a couple of other things, but but please let's let's um try to get this uh in place so that we can close it at our next meeting and again uh not rehash items that we've already covered.

So um, with that said, uh commission members, I'll entertain a motion to continue until our next meeting on April 15th.

Mr.

Chairman, so moved.

Thank you, Helen.

Was there a second?

Second, second, Mr.

Kyokio.

Any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye opposed.

We will continue this until April 15th.

Thank you, uh everyone for your input.

We appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, commission members, we're gonna move ahead on our agenda.

You will note there is nothing under old business, there is nothing under referrals, new business correspondence, or other matters for discussion of possible action.

A couple of things for reference only, you could take a look at, but um, all floodplain permits.

Allie, am I missing anything?

Nope.

Good, because if I am, I'm gonna blame you.

You know that, right?

So anyway, okay.

Uh commission members, uh, if there's nothing else, I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

Mr.

Chairman, I'll make a motion to adjourn.

Thanks, Bob.

Second, Mr.

Chairman, I'll second that Mr.

Zario on a second.

Is there any discussion?

All in favor, please say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

Opposed.

This meeting is adjourned.

Thank you, everybody.

Have a good night, and we'll see you on the feet.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.