Welcome back to this biweekly meeting of the budget and policy committee of Denver City Council.

Join us for the discussion as the budget and policy committee starts now.

Um, good afternoon, everybody.

Can everyone hear me?

Yes.

Is there an echo?

Yeah.

Oh no, okay, great.

There's not an echo anymore.

Um good afternoon, everyone.

Thank you for joining us at Budget Policy on Monday, August 4th.

My name is Amanda Sandoval.

I have the honor of representing Northwest Denver District One.

Before we get started, let's go around the room for introductions, and then we can get into the um the proposal today.

I'll start with my left.

Good afternoon, Diana Romero Campbell, Southeast Denver District 4.

Uh good afternoon, Daryl Watson, District 9.

Sorry, one of your members at large.

Jamie Torres, West Denver District 3.

Thank you.

We have one proposal in front of us today.

Um, Councilmember Hines, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, I wanna bring a couple advocates to the table.

Roland, will you come on, come on down or come on up?

Um so uh uh first of all, I want to start off by uh thanking Andre for um all the work that he's done on helping move this presentation forward, and um uh but uh before we get into the presentation itself, why don't we introduce yourself and then we'll go around the Sure.

Uh yeah, I appreciate that, Councilman.

Um it's great to see it coming forward.

It's been a long process, um, a lot of help from these two.

I'm Andre, I'm the senior aide for Councilman Hines.

Yeah, let them introduce themselves.

And uh Roland Halpern, Executive Director for Colorado Voters for Animals.

We're an all-volunteer organization representing about 45,000 people in Colorado that love animals.

Hello, I'm Amy and Jesse.

I'm the puppy mills public policy director with Humane World for Animals.

Recently changed our name from Humane Society of the United States if that rings any bells.

Not to be confused with Humane Colorado, very recently known as the Dumb Friends League.

Right.

We were both going through name changes and had no idea how similar they would be when they became public.

Super, okay, so um, so let's just uh go through the presentation.

Um first of all, I think it's important to uh to talk about what is this common term.

What is a puppy mill?

Um it is a um, because we're talking about puppies, the it is a dog breeding operation in which the health of the dogs is disregarded in order to maintain a low overhead and maximize profits.

So that's uh that's an important definition for um the policy that I'll be talking about today.

Um, uh here is uh an example of um uh an adoptable dog from uh from the Denver Animal Shelter.

Who is not here?

But um uh the uh this is an example of uh a um adult dog that uh the adoption fee is 75 dollars and um uh and then the dog.

I think this is what is it called?

Um where you're animating someone who cannot um speak for themselves.

The dog is saying I've been at the shelter since July 28th, 2025.

So um it uh just I think it's important to say that buying a pet from a pet store uh contributes to pet overpopulation and displaces a home for local shelter animal in need.

And this uh this actually did come from our Denver Animal Shelter.

Um the uh proposed legislature today is talking about um eliminating the retail sale of three species, uh puppies, kittens, and rabbits.

Um and in part because the breeding methods are inherently cruel.

Um, they're also uh with in breeding, there's um uh often uh costly future medical expenses that I would say uh the person who's purchasing the puppy does not know of the uh of the future medical expenses that they will have.

Um and uh so there's a bit of a knowledge disparity where the breeder knows that this is a um a uh uh an animal that will have medical um uh expenses and likely a shortened life.

Um but uh so the these um pet stores that we don't we don't have any of it in Denver right now, but they use um I would say predatory behavior to sell these dogs, cats, and rabbits, but they also use predatory lending schemes as well.

Uh and then there are public health issues as well as these are unhealthy dogs, and sometimes those health issues can be transmitted to humans.

Um there is a um an opportunity for federal oversight.

The US Department of Agriculture uh does license dog dealers, but um, but the oversight is minimal.

I'll just uh instead of reading the whole slide, there are um uh easy ways to get around the oversight.

Um and it's uh it's happening in Colorado.

Uh we have the unfortunate uh opportunity to quote an article that is less than two weeks old.

Um and uh talks about some of those uh uh health issues or health concerns that I was talking about before about missing limbs, parts of limbs, um, and just the inhumane way that uh these puppy mill and in this case puppies are um are being um enclosed and uh and really it's just uh for a uh a profit motive.

Um these puppies, you know.

When you want to invest in um your best friend, uh many people are willing to spend some money to uh for that investment.

$6,200 in this uh in this case, which um you know it's a major purchase, and not everyone has $6,300 lying around to um to purchase your best friend, but this is your best friend nonetheless, and so you're willing to go into debt and uh for the opportunity to get this adorable puppy.

But um there are uh some of these um uh pet shop sales folks that partner with um with lenders that I would say is predatory, that's obviously an opinion, but um uh but charging um interest rates up to 36 percent is um uh is a lot and uh and that's gapped uh I mean before there were some um uh some additional regulation um in some of the lending industries.

Uh it used to be quite a bit higher, but still 36 percent is um is a lot um oh and uh one other point on that slide like any finance deal if you don't make the payments uh your puppy can be confiscated.

Um and then also that really if uh if the breeder knows that there are um you know damaged um if their their goods are damaged, they sure want to get these puppies out the door before those medical issues start becoming apparent.

And so um so they'll become less desirable to the customers is also um there's a sense of urgency from the from the dealer uh to the the retailer to um to have the the um the puppy uh sold quickly.

Um and uh and I know that uh if uh the animal shelter were here or the Dumb Friendsly were here, they would say that they receive uh animals just dropped off their locations uh and um they believe that those uh those puppies sometimes those puppies uh and and kitties um were from uh disreputable breeders as I mentioned there are already health and uh health concerns and financial concerns.

I think I've already talked about both of those.

Um for what it's worth, there are no pet stories in the city and county of Denver that sell um these kinds of puppies and kittens.

Um and uh uh as far as we know, no rabbits are also sold in the city and county of Denver.

Um so uh so basically because there are no retailers now, we wouldn't have any uh consideration of lost jobs or um or revenue from small businesses.

Uh this is um uh, you know, we've we've had that unfortunate concern and conversation in other things that we've considered uh here in uh in council.

Fortunately, we don't have to think about that uh with this potential legislation.

I would say um eight states and um more than 500 cities and townships nationwide, including 24 in Colorado, have already uh achieved what we're uh what I'm proposing and um and hoping you support uh here in Denver.

Um the Colorado cities and townships are here, so all the way back, uh, fountain in 2011, and then uh Colorado Voters for Animals and Humane World, not humane Colorado, actually probably Humane Colorado as well, um, have really started to get more engaged, and you could tell that um with that additional engagement, there's been um uh additional ordinances passed.

Obviously, we'd be the largest municipality in Colorado to pass this, but it's because we are the largest municipality in Colorado.

Um, for um uh for what it's worth, this ordinance will not one prohibit it responsible local breeders.

It will also not prevent pets for stores from having adoption events uh from rescue organizations or others, um, and it will not close the Denver market to the majority of pet stores who focus on pet products and services, uh, which is a huge industry.

You know, I've had dogs my whole life.

Um, I used to have a shirt that said rescued is my favorite breed.

Still believe that to be the case.

Um just a little bit about the Denver Animal Shelter.

Uh, they've had a 44% increase in animal uh intake now.

Uh I think that's last year data compared to uh pre-pandemic and owner surrendered animals has surged 175% post versus pre-pandemic.

Um, and that's 2024 data so far in 2025.

Um, it's more than a 200% increase versus pre-pandemic.

And uh that's the last slide.

And that is the last slide.

So I wanna um with that data, I want to reiterate uh or or bring back the the purpose of this ordinance.

The the purpose of the ordinance, um, and this uh I know that I have I've had a briefings with many of you is to prohibit the retail sale of dogs, cats, and rabbits that are um unweaned or um have health uh health concerns.

Um I would say there was originally there was a conversation about um about also having this ordinance include um public spaces like parking lots and side of a road and whatnot.

Uh this has been that part has been removed, and so um this is just covering the retail sale inside a pet store.

And that's I was expecting that to take way longer.

So uh kind of rushed through.

I apologize if um if I went too fast, I'm happy to answer any questions.

And I do have some handouts in case people want to read more later, and now it's a lot of information at once.

Roland, do you have any um either of you, but I was going to um say the reason that the uh the parking lot sales and whatever was removed is because we recently passed it actually becomes effective tomorrow, I believe, a uh statewide bill through the Colorado legislature that makes it illegal to sell dogs and cats and other any kind of pet uh in a parking lot out of the back of a car, whatever.

We had a problem with people coming in from out of state claiming they were rescues and selling these these animals, and then they would disappear, and if anything happened, you had no recourse.

You didn't know who you bought it from a lot of times.

Uh, I'm sure you're probably heard about the story with that one organization, and two of the dogs had rabies and had to be put down.

Um so that's not an issue because it's been addressed by the Colorado General Assembly.

Do you have any other uh thoughts or comments to add?

Um, I mean, I think you did a great job of covering it.

I'll reiterate that there are currently no puppy stores in Denver, which is a great reason to act if if a store was to come and open, and we do know a big national chain has its eyes on this area.

They bought the domain for Petland Colorado.

Um, they're a super high volume puppy store.

They'll be they would be importing thousands of puppies into the state to resell.

They have just a horrendous record of consumer protection issues and animal welfare issues and the whole thing.

So passing a preventative ordinance is ideal.

Um I helped Fort Collins pass their ordinance, and they had a store, and so that just really complicated things.

They still passed it, but um, to do this now and it's preventative, and um, as you heard, eight states banned the sale of puppies in pet stores statewide, and over 500 localities have done this, and so pet stores, some really bad actors are looking for new places to call home and places that haven't taken action on this issue yet.

So we feel that it is really important as a preventative ordinance, and why wait till you have a bunch of residents who you know have some of the horror stories you alluded to of being in a bunch of debt and um caring for a sick puppy and all of that.

So I would add that according to the national statistics, Denver is number two in the country for puppy for dog friendliness.

So if I wanted to open up shop, Denver's where I'd do it because you know we have we have everybody loves their dogs, and uh, you know, nationwide we're known as like the number two city for uh for dogs.

And there are stores in the Denver area, and but one of the handouts I have is um a sampling of where some of the Denver area pet stores are getting puppies from.

Um some of the photos are hard to look at, but they are public records, and then also a sampling of like some of the consumer complaints just to give you an idea of the sicknesses and what what is going on, and there's a pet store in Centennial, and there's one in Thornton, and there's actually one with a Denver address, but is technically in Arapahoe County.

Um so there are you know these puppy stores in the area.

Do you know something?

Yes.

And I have plenty more.

I know that's more than one, but I just counted out one, but not all right, thank you all.

Uh I have two people in the queue.

Council one tours, and council and thank you, Matt.

President.

Um, thank you so much.

Um I was curious about the actual ordinance language.

So you referenced something.

Is that what's slated to go into the ordinance under a I guess it's kennel license?

I'm not sure what you're proposing.

Um so this isn't my laptop.

I don't know if we have um the actually Andre, will you bring up the ordinance?

It's a pretty small uh short ordinance, it's maybe a quarter of a page.

So um uh, but Andre can bring it up.

And we can also I think oh I saw this uh uh PowerPoint.

And um, and certainly we can um we can send this to all council members.

Um, but the let's see, it is chapter eight, article four, um division one.

So eight one oh four sale of certain animals prohibited by pet shops.

I'm not sure you uh council tourists.

I'm not sure what's the language we'd be adding.

Yeah, um uh it shall be unlawful uh for a pet shop to sell, deliver, offer for sale, barter, auction, give away, broker, otherwise transfer or dispose of a dog, cat or rabbit.

Uh that's a b uh shall not be a violation of the subsection A for a pet shop to allow an approved animal adoption or humane organization to display, sell, deliver, offer for sale, barter, auction, give away broker, otherwise transfer dispose of a dog cat rabbit on the premises of a pet shop.

Um the third uh C and the final is a pet shop that allows an approved animal adoption or humane organization to all those things of a dog, cat, or rabbit on the premises shall post in an in a conspicuous location assigned listing the name of the approved animal adoption or humane organization that is operating on the premises.

So, you had said a minute ago, um, unweaned or of medical issues.

Is that like technical criteria or yeah, we settled on this language, I think specifically the um so this this would prohibit the sale of all dogs gets in rabbits and pet stores.

I think you were maybe just clarifying common issues that you see, which most pet store puppies are they technically have to be eight weeks old before they can cross state lines, but that often doesn't always happen.

So I think that was your point about unweaned as these are really young puppies who've traveled long distances, and that's often when they get sick.

And then your second point was it's unweaned.

Then what was the other part?

Right, yeah.

So again, these puppies are just really have the health deck stacks against them because of where they were born, the conditions, their how their mothers have been treated in overbred.

Then the long transport.

There's actually a whole system called the broker system.

So brokers they have what's called the B license from the USCA.

They're these middlemen.

So they're based a lot of them in like Missouri and Iowa and the bigger puppy mill states.

Most of the Colorado pet stores actually source from brokers.

They buy from hundreds of different commercial breeders, and the pet stores buy from the broker.

So that adds another leg of transport too.

So the opportunity for the puppies to get sick when they're co-mingled with all these other dogs.

They also in the vans, pet stores will return sick puppies to a broker.

And those are co-mingled with puppies that are then dropped off at the next pet store.

And so the opportunity for sickness is really enormous.

The CDC actually looks into an antibiotic resistant cambylobacter outbreak in pet stores, and they said there's no other supply chain sort of in the whole pet industry, except that commercial breeder to pet store that was an issue with that, and it was because they're constantly pumping them with antibiotics, hoping they don't get sick when they're going through this whole process.

Again, as seven to eight week old puppies who probably shouldn't have been taken from their mothers because our immune systems aren't developed.

So there is such a huge likelihood of sickness.

Do they get them to a particular level of health before they would transact them to like a pet store that could sell them if it had that partnership?

Well, the shelter wouldn't give them back to the pet store.

Is that what you're talking about?

Oh, okay, sorry.

It surrenders them to the shelter.

You had mentioned unless they had a partnership with a reputable um animal shelter.

Is that what I think?

The language, the ordinance language clarifies that this doesn't impact pet stores who host adoption events.

Oh, gotcha.

So like Pet Smart Petco do this, a bunch of the boutique stores around Denver do this.

They partner with shelters and rescues, but they don't own those animals.

That's not considered a pet shop sale.

That's an adoption where they're just kind of using that space to help the public see the adoptable animals.

It just clarifies that that's of course still allowed.

Okay.

And if I could just add to that, uh, animals coming to the state have to have a CVI, which is a veterinary and server certificate of inspection, supposedly vouching for the health of the animal, but we've seen cases where one veterinarian will will rubber stamp a hundred animals in one day.

So there's absolutely no way they could have done anything more than a cursory eye examination, you know, just oh, it looks healthy.

So and uh my thought about unweened animals is if they're less than eight weeks of age, it's too soon to know if they're genetic or other medical issues because they're just so young.

Um, and so there's an advantage of uh, or there's a shot clock to use a sports analogy, I guess, um, wanting to get the pet into someone's hands uh and have that financial exchange happen before any of those medical conditions make themselves apparent.

Okay.

One of the questions that I had asked um excise and license was how many current licenses are held for pet related businesses, and they've got 69.

Obviously, none of them are categorized as pet shops, but they could be just a kennel, which I'm assume is like a um boarding uh location.

Grooming and hospital are the other three categories.

So it was helpful to know just others who have the license where you can opt um for the pet shop, but okay, thank you.

Thank you, Madam President.

Thank you.

Councilman Chay.

Thanks, Madam President.

Um, thanks you guys so much.

I uh, as you know, feel that this does not go far enough with some of the other problems, but I really appreciate the um you know this language and the kind of narrowness of it just in terms of just the problem we're trying to solve, right?

Um, I just I wish that it was a little bit broader to um address some of the other challenges that we see with animals.

Um I did have a so thank you for your work, and I am supportive of this.

Um I just did have a question about um, and this might be covered in the state law, right?

So I'm thinking back to my briefing on this, which was before the state law passed, I think.

Um, but I wanted to just understand, so like there is a fantastic strip mall that's very, very useful and has a bunch of different stores like Ulta and Michaels and um King Supers, right?

And it's down on um Yale and um Colorado Boulevard, and pretty regularly outside of the Michaels and Petsmart in the parking lot, they do animal adoptions, right?

And they are um through the Humane Society, so it's totally regulated.

Um, but I just I guess I want to make sure I understand is it our law or the state law that then does not allow that to happen anymore.

Well, this the state law that just passed, um, it it exempts licensed shelters and rescues.

So the state law does too.

So the humane society can still hold adoption events in the parking lot of this.

You have a state license, you can still do it, right?

Which um I don't know what that is.

Oh, pet animal care facilities acts or the Denver Animal Shelters, Department of Agriculture.

Yeah, regulated by PACFA, um, dumb friendsly actually Humane Colorado now is regulated by PACFA.

Okay.

So they they have the I don't want to call it an exemption, but it is an exemption.

Okay.

Um they're not subject to to that.

Right, it's not it's the unlicensed, like we see it a lot.

Fort Collins actually passed the pet store ordinance and the public sales ordinance at the same time because that was before the state had the bill, and there's actually I actually live in Fort Collins.

There was a major problem there with like parking lot sales, and they were actually seeing a lot of um breeders from Wyoming coming and selling, and then they would sell sick puppies and then they take off, and you can never contact them again, and there's major issues, and so that was kind of one example of what that would address.

But um, it's not it's not trying to crack down on the license entities that are already you know under a bunch of regulations, and that you can find them, right?

Like you if something was wrong with the animal, you can easily find them.

That's great.

I really appreciate it.

I just needed to like a little clarity around like that's not where the state bill started, and so I wanted like just make sure you understand where the state bill ended, what that current law is, and then how this law would dovetail with that.

So really appreciate that explanation.

Thank you.

I knew there was a name for them, but I couldn't remember what it was.

Yes.

Yeah, it's puppy slingers.

Alright, thank you.

Thank you, Madam President.

Um, I'm wondering in the ordinance, um, you said uh that it would be for stores in particular.

Is there any impact that would happen for like the National Western Stock Show?

I'm thinking, you know, there's people from all over the country that are bringing their animals to show.

I know rabbits are one of the things that are being shown amongst other animals, and often um are for sale at the end.

Would they be would they not be permitted to sell those animals under this ordinance?

That would still be allowed.

This is specific to retail pet stores, um, which I think is defined as commercial establishments.

I I don't know the exact it's uh I believe the existing definition you're already having done for.

Um, but it would be that I don't think that would be considered like selling at retail.

Okay, so yeah, because it's usually like individuals or maybe like a specific um ranch or something that has position.

The proposed ordinance does say pet stores, so uh something at the Western Sox show wouldn't be considered a pet store, and selling animals that you've bred and raised is not what this addresses either.

Like the, you know, the this they're these are third party sellers, the pet stores.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, go ahead.

But getting a definition of the it isn't in the ordinance, I believe it is a definition that already exists, but I'm making a note to get you the definition of what a pet store is.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, thank you, madam president.

Yeah, um, so to have councilman Torres' point?

What section of the DRMC does this go under?

Uh, chapter eight, article four, Division 1, section eight one oh four.

Okay, and that's the like division of animal welfare.

I'm assuming since I don't have it in front of me.

I'm not sure.

We'll get a legal response.

Jonathan Griffin, Deputy Legislative Council.

So yeah, this is gonna be in a section about kennels, pet grooming, pet shops, and pet hospitals.

And uh to answer uh councilwoman Romero Campbell's question earlier, uh, we define pet shop already in the ordinance as pet shop shall mean a retail or wholesale business with which is involved in the selling or trading of pet animals.

So it wouldn't apply to anything that's happening for Western South.

Thank you.

And so um, is it excise and licenses who gives out license for pet shops?

Sorry, like it was federal.

The PACFO, what is that's state?

State, okay.

Yeah, PACP is the state, and they they regulate all the uh the pet stores.

They PECPA regulates groomers, pet stores.

Um, I understand that, but I'm asking on a municipal level.

Normally, like a lot of times you have to have a state and a municipal license.

So, council member Hines, who what agency would it be excise and licenses?

Who would give this type of license out?

I'll I'll have to check.

I would start with um uh with the Denver Animal Shelter and DDPHE, but uh but maybe they don't um I you know, no, I mean for back in the day when we had pet stores that sold pets in Denver, you have to get a license.

Who is the agency that regulates that?

I'm not sure, but I will check.

So actually, Jonathan Griffin, deputy uh legislative council, it's excise and licenses.

Yeah, okay.

So they would be the one who would monitor this if they came in and enforce it.

Jonathan did the excise and licenses handles the licensing, the enforcement I believe is done under DDPHE under their uh Department of Animal Wealth.

So hypothetically speaking, if say someone came in with a proposal for uh pet shop, they would have to go to excise and license, and excise and license would be the one who told them it was it would prohibit it.

Correct, yeah.

Excise and licenses would would offer the initial would do the initial licensing.

Awesome.

Thank you.

That answers my question.

Okay, see, yeah.

Councilman Torres.

If I could follow up on that, um, from what it looked like is it's a kennel license, and you have different categories under the kennel license of what you're applying for.

It could be the categories that we mentioned earlier, pet hospital.

Um boarding, I'm sorry, what did I say?

Grooming.

Um I lost it, uh, kennel and pet shop.

Are you asking, or would this require uh excise to totally eliminate the pet shop option?

From that license.

No, that I mean that they can still operate a pet shop, they just can't directly sell puppies, kittens, and bunnies.

Correct.

Thank you.

Okay.

And if I may, if you look at Petco or Pet Smart, they're also selling snakes and guinea pigs and rats and those kind of things.

Fish, turtles.

Okay.

The way this is if it's helpful, the way this is, I've seen this work in other cities, is it's generally at the licensing or permitting stage that if a new store wanted to come in and sell puppies, they would be told you can't do that.

But like say an existing store start selling puppies, then that would probably be animal services or animal control that would cite an existing store for that and say you can't do this.

So sometimes it's a bit of a mix, and it sounds like that's how the code reads here is it kind of depends what stage it's in.

But and we can we can help with enforcement of that because we get public records from the state.

Um, like some of those pictures I have in there, I we annul that because of the records we get from the state of imports, and so we kind of track that and we could let Denver know, you know, someone some businesses importing puppies, and that seems to be a pet shop.

So we can kind of help with that, but I think for the most part, it would be at the licensing level if someone expressed they wanted to open a store that sold puppies, they would be told at that stage.

Of course, you can open a pet store in Denver.

Um, you just can't sell these three species.

Okay.

All right.

See no other um what's the next steps, just so that we could all be aware.

Okay.

So the next steps uh certainly is to make sure that you have the latest um uh actual language of the ordinance, and I apologize that you don't have that already.

Um, and uh and then after that, um, we would uh ask uh your uh suggestion on where uh what committee to bring it towards or bring it to.

Um and uh and I'll have to admit that I'm not 100% on the new committees just yet, but uh probably the one either exercising licenses or or maybe even more likely DDPHE reports to.

Um I so I believe we've gone through five iterations of the ordinance, and um I think that we have addressed concerns from colleagues.

Um, and uh so I I would say this it's time to take this to a voting committee.

Thank you all.

Um see no other action before this committee, we stand adjourned, and I'll see you all at 3 30 at the city council meeting.

Have a good afternoon.

Thank you.

Um, three eight eight eight six seven.