Welcome back to this weekly meeting of the Health and Safety Committee with Denver City Council.

Coverage of the Health and Safety Committee starts now.

Good morning.

This is Wednesday, August 6th, the Health and Safety Committee.

My name is Darrell Watson.

I'm honored to be the uh chair of this committee, and I'm honored to serve all residents of the flying district nine.

Uh we have one action item and four consent items.

But before we join, uh begin our presentations.

Uh we'll do brief introductions of council members.

Why don't we start from our right with Council President Pro Teton?

Good morning.

Diana Romero Campbell, Southeast Denver, District 4.

Morning.

I'll leave off the good.

Uh Kevin Gwynn, Southwest Denver's District 2.

Uh hi, everyone.

Sadana Gonzalez Gutierrez, one of your council members at large.

Hi, Amanda Sawyer, District 5.

Jamie Torres, West Denver District 3.

Good morning, uh Stacy Gilmore, District 11.

Good morning, Amanda Sanible, Northwestern District 10.

Sarah Cody, your other council member at large.

When does the S, Flora Libres from Lucky District 7?

Welcome everyone to our our safety meeting.

We have one action item, and it's a uh presentation action um uh action item 25117, an ordinance concerning the disclosure of non-monetary settlements.

And I turn it over to Councilmember uh Torres and Councilmember Gilmore.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um thank you so much, uh Council members.

It's um uh Councilmember Gilmore and I are really glad to get this over the line.

It's uh a small but really important uh modification to uh the um municipal code.

Um and so what it ultimately does is ensure transparency in all of our public safety settlement agreements.

Um this is kind of what we're gonna go over today, and want to start off with um some uh ground setting, I think, from uh Julia Richmond who chairs the Citizen Oversight Board.

Um, and to ensure lasting transparency and community trust, the Citizen Oversight Board recommends the disclosure of non-monetary settlement obligations, be established in a formal policy and potentially in an ordinance.

So this was part of a letter that we received in 2024.

It was the second letter from the Citizen Oversight Board uh to leadership at the time, which um I was president at the at the time of the first letter.

Um now President Sandoval was president at the time of the second letter, and we um definitely needed to figure out how what is the problem and how do we try to resolve it.

And so Councilmember Gilmore and I were asked uh to dig in and try to figure out what needed to be done on this.

Um a little bit of the background um uh from the letters.

Um the COB uh reviewed nearly uh over a hundred and fifty settlement agreements uh because they were not sure that they were seeing all of the agreement uh indicators or um settlements um that were not kind of the monetary disclosure.

Uh so those could be training, um, those could be um something additional.

Um I've been a part of some settlement agreements that required a community meeting be arranged uh for uh community partners.

Some of those were not always uh shared with uh the monitor of the citizen oversight board.

In fact, in four um uh major cases, um those non-monetary settlements were not disclosed, so that the Citizen Oversight Board and the Office of the Independent Monitor could make sure that they were tracking everything that the city agreed to do and in fact were able to carry out in doing.

Um and they found that there was no requirement for the public disclosure of those items, and so that was what prompted them to uh email Denver City Council.

Um so the recommendation uh from the COB was um we need to establish a formal policy.

Um we need to make sure that uh a key partner, whether it was the city attorney or the clerk and recorder, trigger some way to communicate those non-monetary settlements uh to uh COB and the OIM in the future.

Codify that and so they can ensure the oversight and accountability through their independent review.

Um so we made um a couple small changes um to the uh section that speaks to records, access to records by the Office of the Independent Monitor.

Um so this is the new section 2-390.

Um it requires full cooperation from our safety departments, um Department of Safety, Police, Sheriff, and Fire mandates written explanations for delays or denials.

It allows the monitor's office to participate in policy development and requires proactive notification of policy and practice changes.

So the new disclosure requirements ask for within 30 days of that final settlement or or 30 days of council approval, the city attorney would forward the full agreement to the monitor's office and the citizen oversight board.

And it applies to two key areas allegations of improper conduct by public safety and agreements that require some kind of departmental action.

What this does not apply to our settlements of discipline or disqualification appeals initiated by uniform personnel that has a separate process.

So three of the four cases that the Citizen Oversight Board looked at and found that they that they did not know that there were non-monetary settlement agreements were these three cases 2018 Michael Marshall, 2014, Jamal Hunter, and 2008, Emily Rice.

That is, of settlement agreements, we get briefings of those, we approve those.

But that somebody out there, especially our Citizen Oversight Board and Independent Monitor, are notified as well and are able to track the progress because we are also not the body to do that.

And we need we want to make sure that there is somebody out there that is.

Obviously, it is it doesn't occur in every case.

But when it does, it does mean something.

Either a training needed to be modified or given that records needed to be kind of monitored and somebody needed to do that.

So hope that this becomes something that improves our public trust, the transparency that we've given over to the independent monitor and the COB and their independent authority.

So today we're here at Health Safety Committee.

These are the next uh dates that we anticipate this pending your approval would come through City Council with a second and final reading on August 25th.

And we're open for questions.

Thank you so much, Councilmember Torres.

I wanted to ask Councilmember Gilmore.

Was there any additional information you wanted to share?

Um we do have public comment, and so we'll go to public comment first before we um go to the queue of council members.

Well, thank you, committee chair.

Uh I appreciate the partnership with councilwoman Torres uh and the trust by Council President Sandoval in assigning this to both of us to work on this.

Um I think it's uh really important to also um thank uh the Citizen Oversight Board and Julia Richman.

Uh she has been an unwavering community voice and partner in this very real work that affects our communities and most times those in our communities who look like many of us around this table, but are also struggling in some way enough that they're gonna dial 911 and expect somebody to show up to help them or be out in public and expect that they're going to be engaged with in humanitarian manner, or if they are responsibility within our jails, within the process, we need to make sure that we're training people appropriately so that how they engage becomes muscle memory.

And I think that is so important because we all know the stress that we're under on a day-to-day basis, and we don't carry a gun, and we are not faced with themes and scenarios that forever change people.

And if we don't raise that up as a priority in our city, there is no way that we can police ourselves into public safety.

That is impossible.

We're gonna celebrate our 250th commemoration of these United States, and we still don't have some of these parts of our government and policy right and just for people.

And so when I think of someone in our jail and have watched those videos, because you have to see it sometimes to think about if I was that person in a uniform, how would I react in those situations?

And we will never ever know, but I want the people that are in those positions to have the support to behave correctly in those situations, and we can only do that by peer pressure, but that doesn't work.

It's gotta be law, it's gotta be policy.

And so thanking Julia for her work and her voice and you know, the Office of the Independent Monitor.

Um I helped hire Liz Castle.

Um I was given the great honor and responsibility by then Council President Torres to lead that process and be part of that process.

And I got to talk to the other candidates for this independent monitor position that applied across the country.

And when you talk about this, you need somebody who is going to be able to rise to the moment and ask the questions that at the end of the day, as elected officials, we have the fiscal responsibility and the budget oversight of the city, and we need to make sure that we're not putting the taxpayers' dollars at financial risk by not training people appropriately, or by not separating employment, quite frankly, with people that they're just not the right fit, and offering the therapy hours that they need.

Um important steps, and it's not going to happen unless we enact it into policy.

Because if it was going to happen, it would have happened already.

And we need to make sure that the people who are representing Denver are trained the best, and that there is accountability within the ranks, and that if not, that's why we have the Citizen Oversight Board, the Office of the Independent Monitor, and then to do this work because the Denver Police Department wants to get this right too.

The leadership is there.

And I have to say that I think he wants to do what's right, but we as council need to also be asking the questions and around the education-based discipline.

If you would feel comfortable with that being the policy of your physician, if that would be the policy for your lawyer, if that would be the policy for someone who works in a daycare or in a school with your child, would you think that an education-based disciplinary mechanism was gonna protect them?

And that's the question, and so the reason I'm bringing that to this body is because I know the power and the hearts of this body, and we need to have that accountability that sometimes you have to sit in a room with a therapist, and it might be more than 12 hours of the allotted time now that we're giving Department of Safety personnel because we're gonna get this wrong because they're under grave stress, grave stress, and we want to support them, and so by doing this, I really want to thank Emily Lauch with the Department of Safety because Emily has been in every meeting when we were, you know, I was kicking around these ideas.

What can we do better?

What can we do different?

And that this will be a policy that makes a difference so that we're recording.

We know what the monetary amounts are, and we know that we pay out hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars towards that.

We need to record the non-monetary ones because they are just as important and they're the law, and we should be responsible to the families and the taxpayers to do that right.

And so you know, we have a policy list of ideas that um way back when I talked to Nick Mitchell, um, who is the original, the OG independent monitor, because there's not that many of them across the nation.

Denver is unique, unique in that fact.

And Nick Mitchell, we talked for about 45 ideas, and he just threw out policy ideas from the federal, the state, the local.

And so I was just visiting with Councilwoman Torres before, and um we'll unearth that and share that with the body, because that's the work that you all will continue on after I am no longer in this role.

So thank you so much for the partnership and um the little bit of privilege to give you a little bit of history and kind of the why behind it.

So thank you, um, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you so much, Councilmember Gilmore, and and really your service on on this committee and and the work that's being done here, and Councilmember Torres.

We do have uh public comment that that is scheduled, and then we're gonna roll to uh open in the queue for council member uh comments.

We have uh six members of council ready in the queue.

But for our comment section for um the public, we have Elizabeth uh Perez uh Castle, who's the current independent monitor, and Julie Richmond.

And so the ask would be if um um Elizabeth, if you don't want to want to start us off, if you don't mind coming up, introducing yourself.

There's about two minutes provided.

There should be uh notification on the screen if there isn't.

I'll wave my hand wildly as they come to 30 seconds uh to let you know that your time is uh running out.

But uh Elizabeth, I'll turn the floor over to you.

Thank you.

Good morning, everyone, good morning, council, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to just make a brief statement uh to you all today.

The OIM supports the addition um to the ordinance as it will increase transparency and provide accountability for harm done by law enforcement.

This amendment will allow the OIM the opportunity to review not just instances of individual harm, but consider whether there's a systemic harm that needs to be addressed.

The OIM has an over as an oversight agency is in the best position to review these settlements, oversee their implementation, and report back uh to the community and to council.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And then Julia Richmond.

Thank you for having us today.

Uh dear members of the Denver City Council, the Denver Citizen Oversight Board fully supports the changes to the Julia.

Do you mind introducing yourself?

Oh, sure.

But uh just for the record.

I'm Julia Richmond.

I'm the chair of the Citizen Oversight Board.

Uh the board uh fully supports the changes to the Denver revised municipal code uh that the council members have introduced.

The proposed changes uh would require the city attorney's office to provide us with copies of any final sediment agreements related to the Department of Safety that include non-monetary terms or commitments.

These non-monetary provisions are often critical to making structural changes that can prevent future harm.

And proposed ordinance changes will allow us to monitor the extent to which these important commitments are complied with.

Over the years, there have been several examples of non-monetary settlement terms that have driven the large that have driven large and lasting improvements.

Unfortunately, as we described in our November 2023 letter, there have also been examples of terms that the city has either not fully complied with or has done the bare minimum to comply with, denying the potential benefits to our community and increasing the chances of another tragedy.

We are grateful that the DOS has voluntarily taken the significant step of beginning to proactively disclose any settlements containing these terms.

Even so, we believe that giving us the ability to independently verify those disclosures will demonstrate the city's commitment to accountability and strengthen the foundation upon which community trust is built.

Thank you for taking our concerns about this issue seriously and investing the time and energy to draft this language and consider this bill.

Thank you, Julia.

And we know that our process for signing up, especially for committee um discussions for public comment, sometimes is a little antiquated.

And so I wanted to provide an opportunity if there's anyone in the audience that also wanted to um to speak or share any thoughts.

Um I'll provide two minutes.

Um please introduce yourself or organization that you represent.

And so we have uh opportunity because uh Julia and Elizabeth were so uh brief in their comments, we have additional time.

I'll do a quick pause to see if there's anyone else.

Seeing no one else, that is excellent.

We have five city council members uh signed up for comment.

And after that, this is an action item.

We'll ask for a um a motion and a second and a vote on committee.

Um first we have council member Sawyer and then council president Sandoval.

Thanks, Mr.

Chair.

Um, thank you guys so much for doing this.

It has uh for those of us who were here during the racial social justice demonstrations in 2020.

Um this is one of those things that we all struggled really, really hard with.

And I I can I don't remember much about 2020 because it was crazy and we were all working like 80 hour weeks.

But I can clearly remember having a conversation with Nick Mitchell where I said to him, I don't understand how what do you mean you don't get this information as the independent monitor?

Like I I can tell you where I was standing in my office while I was on the phone with him having this conversation.

That's how clearly I remember having it.

So I'm so grateful to you that you have um brought forward this change to the DRMC.

I do think that um it is important, and I do think that it is needed, and I do a hundred percent believe that our police leadership and sheriff leadership also think that this is important and needed.

So um I think we're all on the same page here.

It is not controversial and it should not be controversial.

Um I will say in that same conversation with Nick, I had many other moments where I was like, what do you mean?

What do you mean that's that you don't get this information?

I've had the same conversation with Liz that several times since she became the monitor.

And um, so I guess my question for you is does this go far enough?

Does this get us?

I I'm I am grateful we're here and I am 100% on board.

I just want to um ask the question, because I know that there are still gonna be gaps.

Yeah.

And so did you take did you take a look at that and see if there was um like synergy to add some of those things to this conversation in this ordinance as well?

And if so, and they're not in there.

What was the thought process on that?

I remember um among um uh Nick's list uh were um access to portals, access to software, things like that.

That I think um I don't know actually if they're um if they remain an issue or if they just need to be requested.

Um we it we did discuss the potential of um just suits in general, and um uh both Ashley and Liz um can speak to some of these things.

Not every suit is a complaint that IAB investigates or that is made to the monitor's office.

So that presents uh a complicated situation.

Um one of the things that I've asked is for the city attorney's office and the monitor's office to establish a memorandum of understanding as opposed to an ordinance because those things have a much more complicated path of communication rather than a strict white line of here's what we do under all circumstances.

Um I think it is much more about what's the conversation and how do you arrive at the sharing of information that you need.

Um particularly because we've been in those those meetings where they say here is the settlement, um, and we ask, you know, did the case get investigated?

And they say, no, nobody filed the investigation or nobody filed the complaint.

Um and and so we know that there are things that go um a lawsuit route and not an IAV investigation route every time.

And so we know those things happen.

Um they are probably rare, um, just like the non-monetary is rare, but we also have to cover all of those gaps for those rare circumstances.

So that's where we left um that conversation that um uh a memorandum be established between the city attorney's office and the monitor's office for that particular case.

Okay, really appreciate that.

So then I guess follow-up question is for Liz.

Is that a conversation that and maybe or maybe Ashley, is that a conversation that's happening with the city attorney's office?

I I will acknowledge that based on legal ethical rules that the city attorney's office is somewhat hamstrung um in that as well.

So I'm just curious what those conversations have looked like.

We haven't had the opportunity to have that conversation yet.

Initially, when this issue came up, um I did speak uh with someone from the city attorney's office, and I apologize that her name escapes me.

And um we had discussed the procedures and why um why notification was potentially a conflict issue for the city.

Um so this um amendment really moves forward that conversation and really gives us a greater kind of framework to work with.

So I look forward to working with the city attorney's office, but I haven't had the opportunity to do so yet.

Okay, I really appreciate that, and I'm very relieved to hear that this is one of those things that when I leave here in 2027, I hope will not continue to be an issue for future council members.

So really appreciate that.

And I guess then I will shift to Ashley also.

I'm gonna make you stand up in front of the microphone so that the public can.

Hi, Ashley Kelleher, director of civil litigation for the Denver City Attorney's Office.

I have um really nothing other else to add to what Liz said.

We will be working with um the OAM to establish a process.

Fantastic both agree on.

Yeah, really appreciate that.

Thank you.

And I will just say for the public watching at home, um, who maybe doesn't have the background here, um, the way our current OIM ordinance office of independent monitor ordinance is written, it has to be a complaint made to the Office of the Independent Monitor.

So there is no automatic, and there are some very tricky legal reasons for why, but there's no automatic reporting um between the Office of the Independent Monitor and the City Attorney's Office.

Um, and as a result, there are times when the Office of the Independent Monitor and uh and the Oversight Board are not notified uh and have an up and do not have an opportunity to investigate um some of the things that we see come before us as settlements, and this is a gap, but it is also there are legal reasons why it exists.

So I think an MOU is a great option here, and I also just want to just remind the public watching at home.

If if you have a concern, you have to actively report it to the Office of Independent Monitor in order for them to be aware of it right now.

So thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember Sawyer, uh, councilperson at Sandoval.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, thanks, ladies, for doing this.

I remember um getting the second letter as council president and sending it on, I think to you, councilman Torres, and saying, Hey, how do we um how can I help?

And then you both pinged me and said, Hey, we've been working on this for a while.

Just want to say thank you to the attorneys to also working on that because I pinged Anshal.

Yeah.

So yeah, and I asked Anshu um what could be done, and he said that you two are working on that and that he was actively looking into the best tool to bring forward.

Um, I too also remember talking to the independent monitor during the George Floyd protests here, knowing that we were gonna probably get a lot just from what I experienced going down there and seeing and watching on TV.

Um what was to come in our future and how would we how could we support and did he have at the time um the um resources meaning people to be able to investigate the amount of um complaints that we got.

And I think if I if I'm not still, if I remember correctly, the independent monitor still doesn't have the investigation, the people to be able to do all of the investigations.

So I know that that's something that we put in our priority letter as a body to the mayor, and that I've continued when I'm talking to the mayor about budget, that those are are still our priorities, even in a time where we have to be fiscally lean.

That we're not budging on those priorities.

I know I met with the independent monitor um and said that I I fully support that because we have to have it's the same as the mayor's office where the checks and balances.

There has to be some type of checks and balances when it comes to how are we providing safety.

One thing I will also say is I don't um we all speak bureaucratic language.

When I've talked to people in community about the Office of Independent Monitor, they don't even know what that means.

It's really it's it's um it's like my zoning code language when you talk about bulk plane, yeah, and like a side interior setback and a dormer that everyone's like, Wait, what are you saying?

And you know, you're like, oh, you have to build the in within the envelope of where your permitted area.

Um I think that it would have I don't know how to go about sharing that information in a less bureaucratic way of what is an independent monitor, but just I think highlighting this piece of legislation maybe can do that.

Um, but I'm always thinking about how to take internal jargon that we use at the city and be able to easily convey that to the public because I I've heard um a lot of what we do here, as as transparent as we attempt to be, it still doesn't it doesn't come, it doesn't compute with somebody on the outside unless you're in like in it to win it internally.

Um so just some food for thought as we move forward with that list from Nick.

I'm glad somebody had it, because I remember he said he said he was gonna share it with us before he left.

And then um I thought he had more time, and then he was gone.

Yeah, and it was like, oh dear.

Okay, so I'm glad you all have that.

I was like, oh, that's a missed opportunity.

Um so thank you, and I also am fully supportive of this.

I still can't as much as possible.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Council President, and I absolutely heard so um councilmember Flynn and then councilmember parity.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Could I get some more data before this comes to the floor?

And thank you for the briefing that we had.

Uh the um the oversight board reviewed 150 settlement agreements between 2017 and 2024.

Only four included non-monetary terms.

There are three examples in the presentation, two of them predate 2017.

So only one of them would have been in your review.

So what can you tell us, either uh Julia or Monitor Castle, can you tell us what were the other three non-monetary settlements?

Do we do we know that?

And if we if you don't have them right now, send them, send them to us, uh send them to all counsel by email.

Because I like to understand what the terms were.

Um the uh Emily Rice and the Jamal Hunter cases preceded 2017.

So we don't we don't they're not even included in the in the four.

Uh Julia Richmond, chair of the Citizen Oversight Board.

Uh our uh administrator Daniel will look that up in our data.

It's been a while since he put it up.

But what I'll say is the majority of the cases are you know, officers bumping into someone's car and getting sued, or you know, sort of just uh basic mistakes.

Um and so they are yes, you see those two.

Right.

Um there examples and a monitor counsel, maybe you're you might be the best person to address this.

And during our briefing, uh councilman Torres uh brought up the case of a litigation, a civil litigation involving a it was involving a higher education institution here in the state, and the settlement was confidential by both parties.

In other words, the plaintiff, you know, the plaintiff or the defendant could speak about it.

This was a a state uh uh community college case.

Are there cases like that?

That how would we handle something?

How would this ordinance handle something like that?

Or is that something we wouldn't have?

Yeah, I might actually ask Ashley.

Um we had discussed this example as well or question.

I and Ashley Kellehard.

Yeah.

I was I was able to find out what the terms were.

Yeah, I don't we don't put confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-disparagement in our settlement agreements.

There's First Amendment concerns because we're a government entity that arise related to that.

Also, our settlement agreements are open records, so that doesn't happen.

Okay.

The the review of the cases since 2017, you had all of the actual settlement documents, and that's where the non-monetary terms were listed in within those.

The discovery process was quite quite complicated, actually.

Uh we bumped into the fact that the city attorney's office in some cases didn't have records anymore, and so we had to go back to the attorneys for the cases, you know, the plaintiff's attorneys.

Um good question.

Um so there were some uh complexities that we bumped into with just record keeping there, which again kind of points to the fact that like this needs to have some accountability and rigor.

Um there was uh Daniel did a great job of pulling information out of those records and creating uh database for us to look at, but there was uh a big uplift in terms of sort of research.

Um I've got the information on your first question if you oh sure.

Um so Jessica Hernandez, which was a fatal police shooting settlement in 2017, uh Michael Marshall, we talked about uh 2017, Susan Green, which was a wrongful arrest for First Amendment uh recording in 2019, and then there was a class action, uh selective enforcement of curfew against George Floyd, George Floyd protesters um in 2023.

Okay, thank you.

Appreciate it.

Would it be possible for in those four cases to send us a memo?

Here's what those terms were.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, Councilmember Flynn.

Uh Councilmember Parity and then Council, well, Councilmember Parry.

Thank you.

And I this is a really good move on this on this piece that sort of picks up the work that COV did to understand what was happening here.

And it leads to all these tenderles and other directions, right?

That's some of which have already come up.

I think one of the things that I've been curious about around this settlement piece, maybe from the city attorney's office is if there are, and I think this is probably an Ashley question too, is if you all have uh like internal policies about when you enter into um non-monetary terms and how common that is, um, and whether that's changed over the years.

And I guess specifically in these types of cases, right?

In um like police brutality types cases against the sheriffs of the police.

Um we don't have internal policies about when we um when non-monetary terms are included in settlements.

Those um are often driven by um what the plaintiffs are looking for in a settlement, what um a city agency is is willing and able to do um in settlement negotiations.

Yeah, that makes sense.

It's it's a negotiated thing.

So that does make sense to me.

And part of where I'm going with that is just that um if you think about like the Lyle settlement, for example, which is um around how we handle um people who are unsheltered in their belongings.

Um that's a settlement that um is permanently binding on the city, doesn't have a time horizon as I understand it.

I think that's right.

Um and it impacts like our our policy in those areas sort of in perpetuity, but the original plaintiffs in that case, um I don't even I don't know that they're sort of around anymore.

And and typically the attorney-client relationship pretty much ends when the case ends.

And so you end up in sort of a strange position where um the city is bound to do something, and and we need to be very respectful of that.

Like I'm not I'm not implying otherwise.

Um, but a lot of these settlements, these policies that are derived from certain settlements are really addressing things that like um perhaps should be legislated.

Um and it it's been interesting to see that like and and that's like they're meant to provide information um sometimes in a in a in a way that like policymakers would hopefully pick up, right?

Like a lot of times it's around like more transparency, um sometimes it's around training and things like that.

Um and so I think like I'm wondering if there's maybe a need to like we hear about settlements when they happen, but I just where I'm going with this very long-winded train of thought is um should we be saying in the ordinance that when the COB gets um this information that we also get it?

I think I didn't say it on the slide about that.

Um you guys can tell why I'm being long-winded.

Well COB gets information.

We've already approved it.

Right.

We will put about compliance.

Like I'm more interested in ultimately happening over time with settlement compliance.

Like we know about terms, but then we don't know what happens with it.

And it's I think it's important because really, like um, in some instances, we would be the most appropriate people to um to learn from that, like from whatever the you know, the the plaintiffs and their attorneys had in mind when they sent this disagreement or even the agencies that agreed to it, honestly.

So um that's a thought that I've had is like there's a lot of different roles here uh in oversight, but one piece of it often could be legislative and involve us.

Let us um kind of talk with some of the partners that would be involved in that entire cycle to figure out who might be the right person to come back to us because COVID presumably reports back to us, but um Jessica Hernandez's case was the one that I was referencing when um I referenced a community meeting that needed to take place.

And so they are in in my observation, the very deliberate requests from the family or um the side of uh the the resident that is asking for these things.

They had also asked for somebody um a family member to be appointed to the um then new use of force task force.

So um it would be great to be able to hear back that that happened, it's come you know, whatever the update might be.

So we can certainly work with the monitor's office to be the bearer of that news.

To your point, we could be we could have a role in compliance that's actually not just legislative attorneys too, which is a really good point.

And I you all know this about me, but I before I was here, my I was in the war with um the attorneys who do these kinds of cases, and it was like usually maybe 20% of my case looked because I mostly didn't limit cases, but I handled um a lot of these cases, only a few against Denver or against other jurisdictions.

And I um the plaintiffs that we're talking about while their cases were working their way through the legal system, um, were just really well known among like again, attorneys who handled this kind of work and these kinds of settlement terms, like um, when you had a family that was really willing to stand up for that kind of structural change and fight for that in a settlement in addition to money.

Um, those things are like incredibly hard fought, incredibly um thoughtfully negotiated and incredibly important.

So I'm just really really glad that we're taking this step to not lose track of them because I was pretty shocked when I got the COV letter.

I it would never have occurred to me that it was the process for tracking these settlement agreements as someone who would have been entering into them on the other side.

And again, the attorney-client relationship pretty much ends when the settlement ends.

And so the only people that can make sure that compliance happens are basically us in this room.

So I'm just really um really grateful for COB for picking up on this and then for to my um colleagues for getting this piece of it uh into our code, assuming it makes sense.

I don't know if you can see her, but Emily just watched because she's behind you.

She just walked up to even though my mama is usually behind my head, uh they're looking in front of me right now.

Good morning, council members.

Emily Locke, legislation and policy director from the Department of Public Safety.

Um, and thank you, council member, that gave a great opportunity as well for us to help make sure that the public understands process-wise, um, the city attorney's office will take the lead in negotiating those settlement terms and the non-monetary terms, and then ultimately the actual I'll say compliance with those is going to be the responsibility operationally of our agencies here in the Department of Safety.

Um, and so we're definitely looking forward to how we can kind of fit into that process and make sure that the lines of communication are clear.

Um, we absolutely agree that this is a needed change to make sure that there is increased transparency around this piece, and um, I believe the council members referenced um and Julia did as well, um, that our now unfortunately former executive director Saldate upon learning of this issue from the COB put a new process in place operationally that when we are notified that there is a um, I'll say a finalized council-approved settlement agreement that includes those non-monetary terms that when our office receives that information, we will ensure that that's posted on the transparency section of our website to also help make sure that there's that public ability to go take a look at those terms and see those.

So that's just another piece of this as well to kind of fit into the puzzle of where that information will be available moving forward.

Thank you for adding that, Emily.

Thank you.

And that I don't have any more questions.

Thank you so much, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember Parity.

And um, just want to look around the room to see if there's any other council members um with questions.

And and Councilmember Gilmore, sorry.

I I if anybody else has any other questions, um, definitely um I I wanted to um reference back to um what Emily was sharing around the role of um the city attorney's office and the responsibility of the Department of Safety tracking these policy um you know implementations and knowing um that like the reporting back, and I think it's very timely.

Um we did it for rental licensing, et cetera.

Um, many of our ordinances um we ask the agency or the agencies involved to come back um and report to the the council on an annual basis.

So that is definitely um a way that that could perhaps be handled um and before it gets filed, we can add that clause in there unless there's any legal issue with it.

But I think for transparency, um, it's very helpful for us to have that information.

Um, and then I think also um, you know, with that responsibility of the Department of Safety tracking this, um I think that there's also a broader policy conversation about how do we, as council, since we have to approve the settlements, and by the time they get to us, if we vote against it, that means that that removes that settlement for the victim.

And I think a lot of times the public thinks that we have some choice at that point, but essentially what is happening if we vote it down, we are going against the agreed-upon terms that the victim's lawyer has negotiated for them, and they have accepted those terms, and so we have to honor what the victim wants to have happen, and so that's why when they come forward, I vote on them, and we as a body vote on them because that is our value, and I think that's important, but wouldn't it be great if we could do something policy-wise or a series of things policy-wise, that there is more conversation and more eyes on what is happening, because at the end of the day, these are individuals who are being harmed and killed by city and county of Denver employees, and that's the fact.

And that's the fact.

And so being able to do that, and you know, giving counsel an idea of what the training protocols are.

How has it changed?

How many hours of training does an officer get on a quarterly basis?

Because like we talked about before, paramedics do ongoing training, doctors do ongoing training.

ER physicians do ongoing training, but I could not tell a family who is grieving a loved one.

I could not tell them definitively, oh well, our officers undergo this sort of de-escalation training.

And we just recently saw a video that we see officers continuing to advance on someone who is clearly in a mental state that yelling commands at them is not going to register.

Or they could have a disability.

And so I would like to see where we can get to a point in training that maybe we're just backing off for a second, trying to de-escalate and proceeding forward.

And we know that there are safety concerns, but there are also safety concerns when a civilian is harmed by somebody who is an employee of the city and county of Denver.

And so I would love to, because I'm looking for it.

I just sent um it out to you, and um I actually have an email from February 10th, 2021, um, that's from my um OMI OIM Nick Mitchell meeting, and it's a spreadsheet.

So I sent you all the matrix for what we looked at when we hired Liz.

And I think that's important because that is what her job is.

And I want to be transparent with that to show you all that, because Liz is doing her job, which we hired her to do.

And so I really want to publicly thank you, Liz, and appreciate you and Nicole for everything you both are doing because you're keeping our community safe all over the city, and you're making sure that family members, when they engage with the city are coming home, are coming home.

And so I wanted to give Julia and Liz and maybe Julia will start with you because you worked with Nick and you know, you were in instrumental on this policy.

I think it was probably yours.

I I know you and Nick and worked on it, so I wanted to give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about some of the additional steps that we could maybe just to put it out there on the record in our committee because I think it's important.

So the question you're asking is what other policy ideas do we want to begin to implement?

Yes.

Um, so I think there are a couple of things that we have on our mind to thank you for the opportunity to sort of open the aperture on this.

Um, you know, top of mind for us is uh education-based development, um, which used to be called discipline, but I think we all agreed it wasn't actually uh disciplinary, uh, which would basically undermine the entire oversight system.

Um we have been one of the nation's leaders in terms of our oversight structure and accountability structure for more than 20 years, and um education-based discipline risks unwinding all of that uh without community input and without a clear rationale.

Uh that the chief has said two things.

He wants to speed up the um disciplinary processes and he wants to reduce recidivism.

Um, we have done similar research uh into recidivism and for the levels of conduct that would be covered under EBD, there have been less than five cases of recidivism in the past 10 years.

So to reduce, you know, there are thousands of officers across that time.

Um, and so it is not a pervasive problem that we need to solve.

Now, the disciplinary process is long, um, and accountability does add steps to it, but there are also internal internal steps from the departments that uh could reduce time as well.

And certainly we want a process that feels fair, transparent, understandable to those who are going through it, and then to those who may have been harmed, uh, outcomes that are uh rational to the behavior.

Um that's not the process that's happened here.

And um, you know, we raise the alarm bells to council.

I am not at all a dramatic woman, and I think the um the email that we sent to council was like this will break oversight, and uh we don't say that lightly.

Um, 85% of the cases that currently go through the disciplinary process will go through uh this education-based discipline and or development.

Um, and mostly that will result in one of five trainings that include emotional intelligence, leadership, um, you know, pretty basic kind of workforce skills that you would think you would want all of your officers trained in emotional intelligence and leadership.

Um that training can also substitute for the annual required training.

So not only is it um not disciplinary, it actually just helps them achieve a thing that they have to do anyway.

So it's it's a little bit absurd in terms of its implications.

So I would say that's the first thing.

The the second thing is like certainly there are ways for us to improve processes and accountability in the city, and that's why we exist.

And there are um, you know, many things that we're happy to work with council on in terms of improving.

Uh we have long fought for the um the monitor's office to have unfettered access to information.

That access is not unfettered today.

Um, and uh so we are still pushing for um that to occur.

Um I would say that there are a couple of other uh areas for us to look at in terms of uh processes and procedures.

Um I think overdoses in the jail are top of mind for us right now.

I'm sure they are top of mind for you, certainly uh chronic issues.

Um then, you know, sort of like the civil rights implications of some of the uh behaviors of the police uh department currently would be another topic.

Did I miss anything that's in our annual report?

I think those are top of mind.

But uh you know, the the thing that sort of strikes me, and I'll say we had a board member uh resign in the face of education-based discipline and having served on uh the board for about five years now, uh it often feels like David versus Goliath, right?

We're a nine-member volunteer board.

Um the mayor's office has delayed uh an appointment to our board for 18 months, so we're actually an eight-member board and are currently you know, trying to raise the alarm bells of that with Karen's resignation.

We're a seven-member board.

Uh, we do this in our free time, and we're coming up against uh, you know, sort of systems of oppression and uh habits of police that have been built over the course of American history, right?

Um, and so it feels like we often do these loops where you know, uh the leaders come out and say, we want trust, we want partnership, we want accountability, and then sort of two years later it's like kind of, and then what we really want is for this to be easy and you know, sort of give ourselves a high five at the end of uh the year for um, you know, just getting the work done.

And that is not at all to diminish, you know, the role of an officer.

It's incredibly hard.

They're dealing with really complex situations.

And also um in America today, every single person has a gun.

And so when police are coming, you know, to interact with somebody and that person has a gun and then they feel afraid and then they shoot that person, you know, we're sort of in this bizarre cycle of just murdering our citizens all the time.

Um, and uh there's work to be done, I think, on that front as well.

So recognizing this is a hard job, it also requires a great deal of public accountability, and we are very concerned that that accountability is being wound down.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Liz, is there something else?

Thank you.

Uh thank you, Julian.

I would um just pick up on the sentiments that were expressed uh by the chairwoman.

The but we can't do anything without staffing.

And we can't do anything without resources.

Um of the things that I've looked at since I came into the position, so my position as director was uh empty for two years.

Uh uh deputy director Crittenden now served as uh interim director, but he wasn't in a position to be able to um move forward on projects and policies because really that was not his role.

So as I've come in in addition to learning the system and uh what has been done and what we hope to do, it has become very apparent to me that we are severely understaffed.

Um, and that in order to do the things that we need to do to keep the community safe and to um continue to make sure that uh violations, there's accountability for violations, and that we can provide a service also to the departments in engaging in uh what is the best practice for a policy.

What is good training?

What is good training look like?

Two heads are better than one if we can provide assistance for and information about how to make the department better.

Um, that is an area, we're not adversarial, we're all working towards the same thing.

Um, but as you know, our budget is this big and the departments have uh a significant budget.

What that looks like, whether it's the OIM's budget should be tied to uh Department of Safety's budget.

I don't know.

Um there's a conversation to be had there because different there are different types of oversight throughout the nation, and um that model is uh being used uh, for example, I believe in Chicago, um, but they also do their own internal investigations.

Currently, the departments uh in Denver do the investigation, and the OIM reviews them and and makes recommendations.

So that there's a conversation to be had there, but clearly we are we have been lagging in terms of the things that we need to do to address our concerns, those policy issues that uh that monitor Mitchell raised, and um we're at the end of the line.

Thank you.

Thank you, Liz.

Um I I appreciate the leadership of both of you, and this has been a continued um slow process.

Um, and you know, thinking about back in 2020 and the protests and everything that happened, um the Office of the Independent Monitor and the Citizen Oversight Board were so important to make sure that we were changing practices in how Denver police officers engaged with crowds for the first time in Denver's history beyond you know the 60s and 70s, we actually drew a line and said we as a city will no longer do this, and especially with like chokeholds and with practices that happen within our jails and out on our streets, and um for a citizen to have to lodge a complaint when something went down, when there's other city and county of Denver employees that are standing around with them, we see it on the video, we see it in the reports.

Where is their duty to report?

Because if any of us saw me doing something that was so egregious that the city was gonna get sued over it, I would expect all of you ethically to say something, to do something in that moment, and if not in that moment, afterwards, because that's our city's reputation, that's how we treat our citizens, and this is hard work for the people that are doing it, because I have to say the pushback that when you're doing this work is intense sometimes, and it gets scary, and especially for a lot of us, like the police, they scare me, and I am not afraid to say that publicly.

I love the people and the people who are doing the job, but because of history and because of past experiences and sitting with families who are asking why, why, why there's much more that we as a city need to do.

And I would it would it would be so horrible if in five years we are at a place where we are getting sued so often because of lack of accountability in training.

That is not good fiscal responsibility.

And when police officers are telling me, oh, I'm watching my training video while I'm riding around in the car.

I appreciate the honesty.

But I really wouldn't think any of us would expect our council aides to be trained taking a workday training while they're driving around the district looking for things that we need to work on in the district.

We would say no.

You take a Friday afternoon and you do this training.

And so that's the real truth about it.

And um when Liz says what she says, I know she does not say that lightly.

And the vacancy on the COB on the citizen oversight board, that there hasn't been somebody on there for 18 months.

Why?

Why?

And so I I just appreciate you so much and appreciate the work and the pushback that you will receive from certain folks.

And if you're gonna push back on this, I really sort of question what you're trying to achieve.

Because I'll tell you, I would more than take a Friday afternoon off if the city said you must take this training and you must shut your computer, and we're gonna talk about how you don't harm citizens, and you don't stand around and watch other people who are city employees harm other people.

And so thank you, Councilwoman Torres, and thank you, Council President Sandoval, um, because this is really hard work um to make sure that we're we're protecting people and and then the city as well.

So thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember Gilmore.

Councilmember Gonzalez Gutierrez.

Yeah, thank you, Mr.

Chair, and I do want to thank you both for bringing this up and um appreciate all the information that you've provided, and also equally want to thank um the COB and the Office of Independent Monitor and all the work that you've been doing.

Um I know it's it's tricky to step into that space and to find your footing and figure out you know, where can you push on just to address what you were saying, Councilwoman Gilmore about the the um intervening piece, we do have in our state law um failure to intervene, that it is a criminal offense, um, which I think helps, but I think we still are maybe missing some gaps there.

Um, but I also wanted to ask a couple of questions.

One is when you said about the um the board members.

So are we missing two board members currently?

And so they are nodding their head yes.

We're missing two board members.

Um go ahead, Julia.

Yeah.

Um thank you, Julie Richmond.

Uh the city council has been very fast to fill vacancies, and we changed that process a few years ago, and it worked great.

We used to be appointed like Supreme Court justices, which felt a little much uh compared to the role.

Um, and so thank you for that.

I understand the board, the um council position uh for appointment is already posted, um, and so that's great.

So thank you for that.

Um, you know, our general perception is that with education-based discipline, with sort of national trends, um, and you know, the mayor has not responded actually to our recent letters at all.

It feels very much like the city leadership is backing away from oversight.

Um, and so you know, we're a nine-member board, it's it's a volunteer thing, right?

And so we're, you know, 10, 15% down in terms of our ability to do stuff because we have this vacancy.

Thank you for that.

And I guess just to piggyback off of that, in the fact that you all are bringing, you know, this where we're talking about more transparency when it comes to non-monetary, right, and getting that information.

I think it's incredibly important that I hope our administration hears that we need to fill these vacancies because they are they have a lot of work to do, and and we they need to be able to do that work efficiently.

Um and work alongside the Office of Independent Monitor and provide that oversight of our monitor.

I think it's incredibly important.

I just want to, I can't state that anymore.

Um, the second thing I wanted to ask, and and is as, you know, and I think this is also related is around the transparency piece.

And you all were talking about what were the things that um other things that that would be helpful going forward as as we begin to do this work.

But what I didn't hear was something that I think has kind of risen up to the top.

And when we're talking about transparency, and that is when it comes to deliberative process.

Right now that is considered deliberative, and you are not allowed to share what your concerns are or what your feedback has been and whether or not that feedback has been adopted.

And so I'm just curious if that is something that you see as being helpful as it relates to you know what we're talking about today, right?

Because if there are potential policy changes that are not legislative, that are administrative.

Is there any um appetite for wanting to foster that?

So I think this is uh certainly a conversation that I have been engaging with um with my city attorney representative, and I think it's a conversation a greater conversation that we need to have uh with the city attorney's office because um it really puts us at a disadvantage where when uh we are following the deliberative privilege process, but it feels like um others are not, and we can't respond.

So um we need to be clear.

First of all, they're all working in the same understanding and that the rules apply equally to all who are involved.

Um and secondly, what is what exactly are the parameters of the deliberative privilege process?

So as it stands, um specifically recommendations about cases, that exchange going back and forth in terms of discipline cases is uh is covered.

That that's an issue.

No one is going to talk about individual cases or the facts of the cases.

But it's all it also covers um recommendations that the OIM may make regarding policies and and the back and forth.

And while I understand that it's important to have that free flow of information, um it really kind of example is with EBD.

I mean, the department has been promoting EBD throughout community and talking about it and talking with community members um most recently about what it means, but I could not tell the community what I saw and whether what was being told to the community was consistent with what I was reading um or specifically share what my recommendations are.

So I really felt hamstrung um and felt like we weren't both playing by the same rules.

So um I I've addressed the council, I addressed the council a couple of weeks ago, and I think it was appropriate to bring to your attention.

It's not our recommendations.

These are concerns that I brought to you that I have been that have come to me from the community.

And I think that that is an open area for discussion.

But I do think that there needs to be um further discussion and potentially reviews of the parameters of the the deliberative privilege process.

Thank you so much.

Um and I do want to thank our our council team that does the appointments for like making that process.

It sounds like it that is like helping and working, and so I really am appreciative of how our council has done that um to make sure that we are getting our appointments done in a timely manner.

So thank you all for doing that.

Yeah, and uh I appreciate that, and we'll just say that is because we have the support of Melissa who has been absolutely fantastic in sharing that process.

So it's we can't take the credit for that.

Well, thank you either way.

Thank you, everybody.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank thank you, council members.

Um, and wanted to um share the the what's before us is a the action item on um non-monetary.

Uh I did want to, as a chair communicate because we uh provided publicly um the date and time for the um Chief Thomas's uh presentation on um education-based development.

That date and time changed because of uh a scheduling conflict that um uh rescheduled date would be August 19th, and so council will have an opportunity on August 19th.

Admiral Council, correct, um, to um uh ask direct questions to the chief.

But back to um uh this presentation.

Yeah.

Um wanted I have a question uh council members um um uh Torres and um Gilmore on the I think it's I can't see the slide page, but it's new disclosure requirements within 30 days of final settlement or council approval.

There is a clear listing of that um uh that disclosure requirement timeline.

I'm curious from your research and your kind of collaborative work.

Um were there any outliers to that timeline?

Anything that would um with with a with that cleared amount of time, is there any questions that you all y'all may have that something may be we may go outside of that line because of other negotiations that must occur before disclosure?

No, by the time we approve it in council, everything has been agreed to.

And so once we pass it in or vote on it in council, um that's when that 30-day clock begins, uh, not before that.

So it gives plenty of time for um our our documents to be um signed and ratified and filed with the clerk um and and then communicated over to the COBNOIM.

Thank you so much.

I I just want to say uh thank you to both of you.

Uh uh when this was brought to to my attention when I received my briefing, um, I actually thought this was already a process that we had um uh transparency on non-monetary as we did for monetary.

So I think this is um um something that's important.

I appreciate the amount of work that you all put into it and the collaborative approach that you've taken on this.

This is a action item.

Can I uh really quickly if we do change anything before it comes to first reading, it would likely be following up on the two things that we've heard today.

Um transparency, which I think we can lean on the Department of Safety to be the um responsible agent of that piece.

You have the dashboard now.

Um it could just be make it publicly transparent if it's not a dashboard, it's something else.

Um but then the um reporting back to council compliance with those non non-monetary settlement agreements, if appropriate.

We'll work with John and um the monitor's office on uh just the the phrasing of that um so that we potentially can add those two uh pieces of of accountability back in uh into this piece.

That that is very helpful and with saying that for what's before us today, um, we would need a a motion and a second um for this move.

Second.

Moved by Councilmember Sawyer and Council President Sanibel very quickly.

Uh do we need uh any uh votes?

Thumbs up.

We're good.

Uh we will see you on the floor.

Thank you so much.

We have four items in consent.

The meeting's adjourned.

Thank you.