It's time for this bi-weekly meeting of the Finance and Business Committee of Denver City Council.

Join us for the Finance and Business Committee starting now.

Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to the Finance and Business Committee.

I think we have a bit of an echo.

No, okay, good.

Oh, we have an echo.

I think you can.

Okay.

All right.

Well, um, welcome to the Finance and Business Committee.

Today is Tuesday, September 9th.

Uh, I am my name is Sadana Gonzalez Cuchillas, and I'm one of your council members at large and chair of the committee.

Well, we will start off with introductions from council members, and then we'll go over what is on today's agenda.

Um, so with that said, I will start on my right.

Okay, it's perfect.

Councilmember Darrell Watson, fine district nine.

Good morning, Diana Romero Campbell, Southeast Denver District 4.

Good morning, Amanda Sandoval, Northwest Denver District 3.

Great.

And I am looking to see if we have anybody online.

And I think we do.

Uh, Councilwoman Gilmore, you want to introduce yourself.

Good morning, Stacey Gilmore, District 11.

Great.

All right.

Um, well, that's all of our council members.

We have one action item on the agenda today, and one item on consent, so one for one.

Um, but today we're joined um by we have a couple people joining us today.

Um, but I believe Donna, um, you're gonna be probably kicking us off.

But if you can all introduce yourselves and then go ahead and proceed with the presentation.

I will start a queue for council members for any questions.

So go ahead and begin.

Great, thank you.

Good morning, uh, council committee.

I'm Donna Wilder with the Department of Finance.

Bill Mosier with the mayor's office.

Deep Khan, Executive Director of Denver Economic Development Opportunity.

Great.

Well, thank you so much for hosting us this morning.

We were really excited uh to provide you with uh updates on the Denver Downtown Development Authority this morning.

We are here today, really as a result of uh the amended and restated plan and development uh that was adopted by uh city council in December of last year.

Um this amended and restated plan and development guides the work uh that is undertaken by the uh Denver Downtown Development Authority.

Um, so really the reason why we're here today is because of uh your support in getting us to this uh place.

Um so just as a reminder, the amended and restated plan and development um was uh underscored by an economic study that really focused on upper downtown.

Um the reason why it was focused on upper downtown is because it was uh seemed to be slower to recover than lower downtown from the pandemic, and um from that study it found evidence of blight, and so that study served as the foundation to this plan of development, which provided uh general categories for investments and how we can uh take on projects to help eliminate that evidence of blight.

Now, this plan of development was very broad for a reason, uh, to allow us an opportunity to sort of experiment uh to see what sort of projects works to help eliminate that blight and allow us an opportunity to pivot if needed.

Um, and so what we uh found is that we needed some uh immediate courses of actions, some projects that we could select to have immediate results, and so Bill Mosier from the mayor's office came on board and started to identify some of these micro priorities, and I'll kick it over to Bill to explain those.

Okay, thanks, Donna.

Uh good morning, everyone.

Um we have this slide really summarizes the DDA's uh initial focus on strategy and priorities.

Um, number one, uh, besides the plan of development, we have interacted very closely with uh CPD and the downtown area plan, uh which is moving along, but we wanted to make sure that we weren't contrary to what the area plan was proposing.

So we've taken that under consideration, and our primary focus besides Upper Downtown was to really focus on 16th Street, and uh similar to the area plan.

We really focused on three Nexus locations.

Uh and these aren't necessarily intersections or specific places, but sort of areas of 16th Street.

The first being around Skyline Park, uh Curtis, et cetera, the connection really to the to the performing arts complex and that portion of 16th Street, which also ties uh as we know, to Lower Downtown.

Secondly, uh sort of the core of the retail, which is kind of California Street, particularly Clan Arm Plaza, which also has thousands of hotel rooms within walking distance, is probably the really the center of our hotel community, which connects to the Colorado Convention Center.

And then thirdly, the terminus of 16th Street at Broadway and 16th Street, which really really connects to Civic Center Park, the terminus of the RTD station and the Broadway Lincoln Corridor, and all the various neighborhoods from Golden Triangle up to Five Points and all of Capitol Hill.

So those are our three, those were the places that we really focused on.

Secondly, we all know that one of challenges downtown right now is either vacant buildings or underutilized buildings.

It is fairly obvious to all of us that you can't tear down an historic building.

So we were very focused on any application that came in for an historic building, particularly if it was along 16th Street, because there's nothing you can do with them other than to figure out how to reuse them.

Our priority is to bring jobs back to office buildings.

But if we can't do that, the focus is how do we convert those buildings into residential and hopefully affordable residential and residential that enlivens the street and hopefully residential above first floor retail that helps activate the first floor.

And then you know it's it's often talked about, but uh demolition of vacant office buildings is our last priority.

Not that we wouldn't do it, but uh that's not what we want to do.

Uh and so those are our priorities as as we've expressed them.

And then lastly, and these aren't uh necessarily first, second, or third, but all of us experience downtown on the street, and we all understand that what we need are attractions, we need people, we need jobs, uh, we need retail, we need restaurants, we need cultural attractions, we need reasons for people to be downtown, uh, we need reasons to feel safe and uh and a vibrant city center, and so we're very focused on that first floor business, which you'll hear a lot about.

Uh this first tranche of projects that's on the map that Donna put up is really evidence of the DDA's focus on these priorities.

First of all, you can see they're all along 16th Street essentially, um, and mostly in the upper downtown area.

Uh we do not uh have an intention to have 10 projects at any one time because they're very hard to bring all these along at the same time, but I think there's a real focus on the DDA board's part to uh have an initial tranche of projects that show the breadth of what we could uh be approving.

The lower right box in red uh are projects that you'll see at a later time.

Um, the Sims and University building are residential conversions of historic buildings, and they are in the process of um getting financing and moving their projects along.

Both of them are historic buildings on 16th Street on both sides of Champa.

University building is going to CHAPA for low-income tax credit approval.

We expect that before the end of the year.

Uh SIMS will be a reuse.

Both buildings will have first floor activated retail as part of their projects.

So we've approved uh loans for those projects uh to be paid back over time, but really gap financing to assist them with their commercial financing.

Uh the next two Skyline Park and Civic Center Park are really uh key to that first floor activation and providing a reason for people to be downtown and to enjoy that those parks.

Uh those are the two main parks downtown.

Uh we are the last money in on those, and they've had prior bond money and other sources of funds, and so really the DDA is filling the final gap.

Both of these projects will come to you in the coming 30 to 60 days through construction contracts from the parks department.

It is hoped that both these projects will be under construction by the end of the year.

I will mention that Skyline Park, an interesting feature of that from a private public standpoint is that the uh Civic Center Conservancy as a fundraising arm of the parks helping with the Civic Center, will pay back the DDA 10 million of our 30 million dollars that we're allocating once they get naming rights, and so that will come back to the DDA in the form of a loan essentially.

McNichol's building is an exciting one because that building has the possibility of helping activate Civic Center.

Uh so they're going to be looking, Denver Arts and Venues will be looking at going through a first floor restaurant opportunity and commercial cultural opportunities on the first, second, and third floor.

They are putting out RFPs.

So we've given them assurance that we would provide 7 million of their capital stack to help that happen.

And we will consider that once they come back to us with their private partners.

So the top five are the ones we're dealing with now.

Four retail, I'll call them three retail, one first floor uh cultural use that's uh a real draw for downtown, we think, and then the Brookfield lots uh behind pavilions.

So I'll cover the Brookfield lot now since I'm speaking, and then we'll turn it over to Deep to talk about the residential or the retail projects.

So the two vacant lots behind pavilions are familiar to all of us.

Uh they're on 15th Street.

Uh what's interesting is the one question we all ask is why haven't those ever been developed over all the years that we've gone through uh downtown in the last 25 years.

It actually is a fairly simple answer, it turns out.

Pavilion, the Brookfield ownership group owns two-thirds of all the parking revenue from the entire two blocks.

And the entire two blocks, if you include the underground parking at uh at pavilions is and the lots is 1,000 parking spaces.

There's about three million dollars in annual parking revenue that comes to this these two blocks, and Brookfield owns two-thirds of it.

Obviously, very hard for a private sector enterprise to buy those lots to develop when there's all that parking revenue.

So our intention of buying it is really twofold from the DDA standpoint.

One, the obvious one is to have it redeveloped.

Let's figure out how to get it redeveloped.

It's B4 zoning, it's got hype, it's got mixed use, it can be housing, it can be office, it can be hotel, it can be entertainment, it can have first floor retail.

Uh it and any development that happens on these lots would be supportive of pavilions from a market standpoint.

The second thing then is to work with the pavilions ownership group to figure out as it uh as it renegotiates the future of pavilions, how we get the parking revenue for the garage into the pavilions project so that the pavilions truly benefits from its own generation of parking income, which would help uh the bottom line of pavilions greatly.

So we think this will be a two to five year process to uh incorporate the try to get the garage retail over to the garage and over to pavilions and separate the two lots so that we can sell the two lots to the private sector for redevelopment.

So with that, uh we can come back to questions uh later, but I'll turn it over to Adib to talk about the other four opportunities.

Thanks, Bill.

Uh and uh going to jump in with the first of the opportunities.

We have four on the retail side that we'd like to present to you.

Green spaces being the first.

Um, this is a very key block on 16th between California and Welton.

And the reality is that on this block, uh almost all of the spaces remain vacant on the ground floor retail.

And so we have an opportunity with green spaces to be able to activate all of those spaces and to do it with local minority and women-owned businesses up and down the corridor.

Um, so two buildings involved is 600 16th Street here on the left and um 622 16th Street on the right.

And what this will allow us to do is engage in a master lease agreement with green spaces.

Well, they will take the responsibility of all of those spaces and then offer affordable leasing rates to businesses to be able to activate those spaces.

Uh, we're gonna be working with a number of local vendors in every one of them.

Uh the total amount of space is 17,500 square feet.

Um, it represents it's somewhere between seven and nine spaces, depending on how they end up using them.

They are already demised as well.

Um the funding will cover $3.4 million, which will cover the rent for five years at a fixed rate.

$900,000 additionally will go into tenant improvement and FFE.

And we are looking at in terms of the five-year economic impact of $8.6 million.

Uh, DDA revenue.

There's also a revenue sharing agreement, whereas when the small businesses after year three are earning over a certain fixed percentage, some of those dollars will come back to the DDA, and we expect over the five years that about $270,000 will come back to the DDA as well.

And so we see this as a great opportunity to activate a key corridor on 16th, specifically designed to engage with local small businesses that are going to drive traffic, and it's going to be a great also marketing tool and story that we can share of how we're activating investing and bringing small businesses onto our main street here in Denver.

Next one I'll speak to is Denver Immersive Repertory Theater.

Again, this is another building that on the ground floor that Patagonia space has been vacant for years.

This is at 15th and Blake, and this is an opportunity for us to activate, which is a very large space, 10,000 square feet.

Those are hard to fill with retail activation, especially in this current market.

And so being able to work with a partner in the Denver immersive repertory theater is a great opportunity.

So we've they're looking for a loan for this specific project.

This loan will be $400,000, which represents 20% of the total cost for the build out.

We are looking at an estimated five-year economic impact of almost 20 million dollars.

And that's derived from their ticket sales that we expect, which is projected over 40,000 tickets per year.

So it's one of it's it's a very unique venue.

It can hold up to 200 individuals.

It's right adjacent to our arts district as well, so it really adds to the fabric of that specific neighborhood.

And we see this as a really good opportunity to activate this large space with a loan that is intended to be paid back to the DDA.

The next one is Milk Tea People.

This is at the corner of 16th and Blake.

There's a large three, almost 3,000 square foot for available for lease spot on the ground floor of 16th Street on the corner.

Milk Tea People currently operates on a smaller location, kind of in the alleyway of that Market Street station building.

And so this will allow them to expand and grow.

They've been doing uh good business in their current location and are looking to be able to do more with a larger location.

And so this also is a loan, $640,000, intends to be paid back to the DDA.

The total five-year economic impact is $7.5 million on this.

See a lot of job creation coming out of this specific opportunity.

It's also another great opportunity for us to bring a locally owned Denver business onto 16th.

This has been voted by Westford Readers as the best tea shop in Denver.

So again, profiling that as a key component of our strategy in awarding these loans.

The last is another loan opportunity.

Again, this is another vacant ground floor space.

This is at 16th in Glenarm.

It's the Cooks Fresh Market on the corner, over 5,000 square foot, so another challenging leasing opportunity.

But we've been able to work with Sunday Artisan Ice Cream.

It's a Colorado-based company.

They have five locations throughout the state of Colorado.

And this also is a loan of $750,000.

It will allow them to create a flagship location on 16th, which will have many interactive elements, including the opportunity to see ice cream being made, to be able to sign up for classes, to be able to create your own pints of ice cream.

And through these kind of interactive elements, they expect to attract somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 to 1500 guests a day or 300,000 annual visits.

So bringing more foot traffic is obviously a key strategy of ours, and because of this flagship location, we believe we can achieve higher numbers as a result.

We're looking at a five-year impact of 2.9 million dollars on this one as well.

I'll turn it over to Don.

Great.

Thanks, Sadeeb.

So this slide really represents the vetting of the applications that the staff has undertaken.

Once we received the applications, we did our eligibility review, both stuff from the statute perspective as well as the program parameters.

And part of that is the alignment with the plan and development that we discussed earlier, as well as the valuation criteria that this committee as well as the larger city council had helped us develop.

So we reviewed things such as the financial stability of other funding sources within the projects to make sure that those are reliable funding sources, the feasibility of a project, making sure that it's it's actually reasonable that this project will be completed and be delivered to the community, different policy objectives, such as who's on their construction team, who's uh being served from a demographic perspective, readiness of the project, making sure that those projects um aren't years in the making, meaning that uh the funds aren't sitting in an account somewhere not being used.

Um we only have 13 years left of the initial statutory term of the development authority, so we want to make sure that we uh are ready to deliver these um projects to the community.

And then activation impact.

So, Deep spoke um about this most is that put foot traffic generation, um, bringing workers downtown that ground floor activation, um, and that really results in uh sales tax increments that the development uses to operate and reinvest back into more projects.

Um so this just um demonstrates uh that all of these projects are worthy of investments according to that evaluation criteria.

So we are at the last step in the approval process that's outlined in the cooperation agreement that uh really defines how the city and the DDDA board work together to approve projects, and so any uh projects um that are included into the district does require city council approval for those petitions to include uh those properties as well as any funding agreements over $500,000.

So we um are at FINBUS or FIND is now obviously, but we are depending on how quickly we can negotiate our contracts for these uh um deals, we'll be um keeping you updated on those dates as we move forward through the city council process.

So happy to stop here and uh answer any questions.

Okay, um, thank you so much.

Uh we have I have right now I have council president um to start us off, council president and then council for ten and then councilman Heights.

Go ahead and have thank you.

Um, thank you all for the work on this.

Um it's been exciting.

Um can we go back to the slide that has the list of all the projects?

So colleagues, this is when we adopted the plan, the amended plan, which it called on the amended and restated plan and development.

I should know I walk around with the binder.

Um it was important for the board to make sure that we were investing in housing, we're investing in economic recovery, and we're investing in our parks.

So I kept with this was going on around the same time as the bond package, and so I kept thinking about um a full neighborhood because we had been working on the bond package around the same time, and so when we were being presented um projects, I kept thinking about how in the neighborhood plan that's being developed for downtown.

We keep talking about how it needs to be a neighborhood, how downtown can't just be this light industrial and only have office buildings and people go down there and then leave in the in the like head down there in the morning and leave in the evening.

We need it to be active all the time.

So this is this is what we came up with in thinking about that, and just want you to know is the representative on the board.

Um, that was something that I kept coming back to.

And when we were um in Detroit this summer on the downtown Denver partnership, I think Councilmember Heinz was there with me.

I don't think you were in the same session I was in, but they had a downtown development authority, and they have an active one.

And I went to the session for the downtown development authority, and they kept using this term play.

Who's taking the play away from Denver and who's bringing the play back in?

And so um I was getting briefed on the downtown neighborhood plan, and they had play with kids eating ice cream on a swing set, and I was like, Well, that's nice, that would be me 10 years ago.

I don't want to do that.

I don't want to play that way anymore.

I'm 46 and my daughter's 23 and my son's 21.

I so I think we have to reimagine the way that we're thinking about how we quote unquote play as adults and not just think of play as play dates when you have kids, because when you have kids, you have a lot of play dates as councilman as both my colleagues know who have kids.

Um, how are we reinvesting in bringing people downtown?

And so we did this exercise of what was in Detroit, what was taking play away, and we talked about Cherry Creek, and we talked about all these different amenities, and they were like, What does Cherry Creek have that downtown doesn't?

And so I kept thinking about that um briefing that we had in Detroit on their downtown development authority and really taking lessons learned from their downtown authority and really um applying them here.

I think that's what's great about going on trips and being able to see different projects in different areas and having best practices learn.

So I just wanted you all to understand where I was coming from, and then the one big thing for Civic Center Park, it was a big investment.

And when they first presented it back, I said, I don't think that that's I don't know any other park that's getting such a big investment, except for our bond project, and that's when they came back with Civic Center and talked about naming rights and having them put money back into the DDA, because as much as important it is for us to activate Skyline Park, Civic Center Park, our parks, right?

We aren't in other neighborhoods getting that big of an investment, and so everyone, as long as I've been on council, people have said that they feel like there's this unfairness around downtown that they get all the big investments and our other neighborhoods, that all the 77 other neighborhoods, they don't.

And so I really kept thinking about that when I was sitting on the board and saying, how do we invest in these spaces?

Because one of the terms I've learned is tactical urbanism.

So when you don't like an urban environment, you have to tackle it with the things that you do want.

So I do want to invest in these parks, yet at the same time I want to make sure that we can all go out to our other neighborhoods and say that we're investing in them with a tool that's specific for downtown and they're re-investing back in that tool, which is the DDDA.

So just wanted to give you some thoughts, but I keep going back to that amended restated plan that we passed in December, and I worked really, really hard.

I got into the nitty-gritties one meeting on terminology and wording, because if you have a plan and you adopt it and you don't implement it, what good is that plan?

And so I've really been going back to those buckets within that plan to make sure that we're we're getting the outcomes that can be reflective of all of the neighborhoods in Denver.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Council Pro Temer Maryland Campbell.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Um, and thank you for the presentation.

I also appreciate the briefing that we had before this.

Uh, one of the things that really stood out, and my questions during our briefing was, you know, how do you know you're gonna get that economic return?

And you were very specific in numbers.

Can you talk a little bit about the tool that you was pretty, I thought that was pretty exciting.

But can you talk a little bit about the tool?

I think it was uh REMI or I don't remember, is that the right name of what it was?

Yeah, uh it's the REMI tool.

So how you're of how you're using it and how that's part of, I was looking at slide 15, but part of how that also is showing what those outcomes and measuring success of these investments.

Sure.

Uh so REMI is uh an economic modeling tool, and it's not just used by Denver, it's used by a number of cities to be able to essentially take a place, put in some inputs, and then be able to from that data that you're putting in, be able to make a determination on what the economic outputs are.

So when we look at those five-year economic output totals, those come directly from the REMI analysis.

And this is a tool that's utilized by our department of finance.

Anytime we're looking at like a large investment that wants to come into Denver, and let's say they're looking for a business incentive, we'll utilize that tool to be able to understand, you know, is the ROI on this actually worth it at the end of the day.

So it's designed specifically to inform public policy decisions.

The inputs include a lot of granular economic data.

So we include in there the employment levels of the jobs, the wages of the jobs, the specific industries, and the sectors.

We also look at what are a tax rates, how that's going to affect it, what are the government regulations that goes into it as well to see what kind of a regulatory environment we have.

And then additionally, we put in the demographic data, and then also it weighs in how other industries are performing in that specific geographic area.

So it takes in all of that, and then the output shows us the total value of goods and services that are produced, the jobs and wages that will be created, and those contributions to the gross regional product.

And then also it gives us an output on what this will do for tax revenue.

So it's a really valuable tool.

Again, we've utilized it for this specific investment to be able to get an understanding of what those five-year economic outputs should look like.

Thank you.

I mean, I think that that's I think that's really an exciting thing rather than just like we speculate that this is going to be able to activate it, you know, this level.

Well, in my opinion, these are projects we want to stay really close to.

So for example, we've got projections for every one of these on how many jobs are going to be created.

We want to stay pretty close to each one of these projects to ensure that they're actually meeting those goals, and most importantly, we want to make sure that these economic outputs that are estimated are hopefully just a minimum because we are fully invested in not only these specific projects but all of downtown and making sure that we're successful.

And so, you know, we have a number of business support programs and workforce support programs that we operate at at Dito.

We want to ensure that those are access accessed by these specific businesses and utilized to the fullest, so that we are exceeding what we're projecting here, and we'll definitely stay on top of it as we go forward with these specific businesses and can develop some regular reporting on what we're seeing in downtown and with these specific businesses.

And I'll just add we do uh track the tax increment.

So as Adeeb um mentioned, uh these the intent is to generate the tax increment that the DDDA operates.

We track this on a monthly basis, and so if we're doing our job right, we should be able to track a growth in that tax increment every month.

Um so we'll continue to report both to council as well as um the board on the growth of that tax increment.

Thank you.

Um, on a separate note, as an empty investor, I like the idea of an intel play date.

So just I like the concept, but I don't have any other questions.

Thank you.

Thanks, Councilman Heights.

Thank you, committee chair.

Um, so I I think this is a fabulous set of projects, and I understand the importance behind a little bit of the first set of goals, uh, or the first set of projects so that you can demonstrate to people the breadth of what um what this funding source can provide.

So thank you for uh doing a little bit of stretching with the first uh uh the first Raj.

And uh thank you, uh President, for your uh leadership on the team.

I'll uh I'll admit I I have historically been a little frustrated with the lack of visibility because this is entirely in district end.

Uh so I want to thank you also for um uh for providing some additional visibility.

So uh do want to um you know recognize the frustration, but also recognize that um that you've I feel heard, and uh and I want to thank you for um uh for keeping me um uh better engaged.

So um the uh we're talking about funding sources.

I've talked a fair amount about um loans, um, are those loans that are intended to be repaid?

I think that I think I heard that that is correct after each time, but uh uh, but we're not considering a funding source where a loan uh would be forgiven, like PPP loans, giving you this loan, and we expect in a couple years that we'll just never get the money back.

Is that the these loans specifically are set up to be paid back with interest?

Yeah, we do have other loans that are performance-based, or we have other loans from a housing perspective that Dito also has on its books, but we have um about 25 to 30 loans that are standard business loans, and all of those are designed the same with a payback.

And um the gap financing, I think.

Do you have a percentage that you're targeting?

20%.

Yeah, in most cases, 20% is ideal.

Yeah.

Okay.

I think I I saw one or two that maybe was a little bit higher, but um uh, but you know, we don't want to someone.

I I think some of the applications people were asking for 100% of the financing as a grant um instead of a loan, and um I I think we'd have to think pretty hard about uh you know the the people's money um just helping uh uh you know a private for-profit business with uh a grant of that size.

So thank you for uh for having a um uh the idea of a gap uh finance.

Thank you for having that gap be um not too much.

Um I think 20% is a is a pretty decent goal, so thank you for that.

Um the uh I wonder uh I wonder if there's a uh side or a parallel conversation about the bid.

Um so this funding mechanism is entirely for capital projects.

Um the bid was created in a time when uh upper downtown was the engine and Lodo was a warehouse district, and um at some point we're gonna have all these nice things.

We just um we're about to do the final hurrah for 16th Street.

Um and I'm sorry, I didn't tell you it's gonna have to go or I was really I guess it's not uh I don't mean to to put anyone on the spot right now, but I I get how about this?

I'll I'll phrase this in a statement as opposed to a question.

Um, we invested uh you know just shy of 200 million dollars um to uh to revitalize 16th street.

Um this is a a mechanism where is it 400 or 420 million dollars of investment in addition to that?

Um we're gonna have to maintain it at some point and um and I would say the bid model was created in a time when downtown looked different than it does today.

So um the re part of the reason why I thought of it is um council president talked about Cherry Creek and what is Cherry Creek have different.

Um, you know, downtown uh the downtown bid is a budget about 12 and a half million dollars a year.

Uh that's number one.

Number two, Cherry Creek's bid is about eight and a half million dollars a year.

Um the downtown bid has 120 blocks.

Cherry Creek bid has 16 blocks, and so the dollar per block is just apples and oranges.

Um, and so in addition to the vehicles, uh the the way the bid was created is different than the way the city is now, and just um, you know, how do we get Cherry Creek um from uh uh stealing our play?

I think is the uh phrasing.

Um I just want I just want to say I've I've talked to the partnership um about this a few times.

Um obviously the businesses will have to um be part of that conversation.

Um I but I want to make sure that we if we're gonna do a pretty massive investment, um we have a way to maintain that investment, and so I think there should be some sort of uh you know parallel conversation, and maybe the partnership will say we've already got that covered, or will you be please be quiet?

And and that's fine too.

But um I have a I have a but I so I'm not picking up what you're throwing down because the DDA is so separate from the bid.

So can you say it in a different way?

Because an investment, what the way that I see this is the DDA lives totally 100% separate because it's it's under state statute, right?

It's under the downtown authority, development authority, and as these projects petition in, except for any city owned one, that money will go back into the DDA, and so the DDA will grow.

The only reason why we have the DDA is because we did such a stellar investment in Lodo and we did it got paid off 15 years early, so we're able to reinvest it.

So like as we reinvest these projects, I keep thinking about the DDA.

So I don't, even though yes, it was it's the bid, but I don't think about it that way because the things that we're talked about in Detroit weren't just the bid in Cherry Creek, it was the mall, it was all the different amenities, the walkability.

Um so I I think I I'm trying to figure out how to answer as the board member what you're trying, what picking up what you're throwing down.

So say it in a different way because they're just so distinct from each other that I'm not really thinking about reinvestment into the bid.

I'm rethinking as the board member for the DDA, reinvestment into the DDA, and how can we have the DDA be sustainable so that we can have that funding mechanism to be able to support the bid.

So there's synergies between them, but they're completely separate entities.

Yeah, so sorry.

Councilmember Heinz, maybe I can help you out here because I'm I'm I'm hearing you, and I've had conversations with both the partnership and the business improvement district about this.

Let me just put it in context, because I think you're you're both right here, they are separate entities, but we can be working well together.

So the the purpose of the bid has always been to be clean, safe and vibrant downtown.

So on the clean side, there's not much the DDA can assist with there.

Uh and the bid should be clean, keeping downtown clean.

Uh safe, we have supplemented safety in downtown.

The bus the DDA came up with additional uh public safety resources uh this year to help with that and put more foot patrol on the streets.

So we are mindful of the importance of safety in downtown.

The vibrant part I think is where the DDA can be active as the council president mentioned that whether we do have art offerings, cultural offerings, retail support, uh, redevelopment support, housing support, and that all creates a vibrant downtown.

And some of that may be in the public sector.

Um the you know I think Civic Center Park or uh Skyline Park is a good example of investing in Skyline Park, which supports the bid and supports public space.

So I think that vibrancy part of this equation is something that the DDA can participate in through, as council president uh mentioned, through tangible projects that that are um arts or culture or park or open space, something that attracts people to downtown and makes them feel the activity.

So I think we can look at both.

We're not gonna be able to supplement VID money, but I think we can support what they do.

And as recently as yesterday, I met with the business improvement district.

I meet with them again this afternoon, actually, uh, to help make sure that the DDA is coordinated with the bid.

Yeah, um so hopefully that helps.

Yeah, I'm thinking her little conversations.

So one of the biggest um uh sticking points with building the 5280 trail is we build it, who's gonna maintain it?

Um, and so as we invest into horizontal infrastructure um downtown or as we invest into city-owned assets like Skyling Park and Civic Center Park, um, as they get nicer as we put 50 million dollars into uh civic center park, want to make sure that it continues to be nice, and uh you know, that we uh maintain it in a in a way that um that will uh respect and look at investment.

And um, and so I I'm uh asking uh the board to do that.

I think we should have a similar uh parallel conversation though, because um a $50 million dollar uh more invested civic center park will require more maintenance just because we've got more uh more investment there.

And so I want to make I was fidgeting with it anyway.

So now I'm not fidgeting.

Um so the idea is uh, you know, the with the 52880 trail.

If we build it, we spend a hundred seventy five million dollars in the 5280 trail, and we have no way to maintain it in five years of the grass growing through the you know, the um uh the papers and um so that's that was my my thought process it's not for the board to do anything it's for us to think about um in parallel once we build it and people come can we maintain it I guess the difference in my opinion it is um we have our parks department and so if we invest in the parks same as like if I buy and build a new pool at Oslan Rec Center with the Go Bond if we build the 70 million dollars if it were to pass in the bond for um park hill we have to invest we have to maintain that so I don't think any of these investments are outside of at least at Skyline Park and Civic Center Park 5280 trails very different because you're building it in right of way where people where it's it's not in a bid part of it's not in a bid part of it you can always create a local maintenance district right that deals with landscaping but it's a very unique project where you're wanting to invest in the right of way and you know they always say like in in um site development plans it's that between the private property and the street that's literally the hardest to maintain so I get what you're saying but I haven't seen anything come forward with the 5280 trail and I haven't seen anything in these here where we're investing in any of that right of way investment in the right of way that does not have the bid so the two parks we have parks department who will help maintain them and the other ones are in on private property um that would be in the bid and then they'd have to go through into the inclusion to be included into the DDA so but I'll keep that as on the on my radar as the projects we're doing I mean there's a couple projects that I've heard of that might have more challenging infrastructure to maintain because that's the hardest part is when you invest in something how do you maintain it right unless you have a parks department or you have something or some type of um entity that can actually maintain those investments I don't see that in this tranche but I'll make sure to keep that that idea of what you're what you're I'm picking up what you're throwing down now because you keep referencing the 5280 trail I don't I'm not that hasn't been a project that we've have funded yet so these are all on this list are entities that are either private property that they can be maintained you'd have to maintain your right of way or within our parks department which we have staff because I did ask that I said with furloughs and layoffs how are we going to invest in this huge investment and all of the other parks projects that are on the bond trust me I've had very long robust conversations with the park department and if we build this how are we going to maintain it and that's something conversation we'd have to have with our parks department oh okay um councilman watson uh thank you so much committee chair um and I appreciate the dialogue around this um I am my two favorite buildings on 16th Street are part of the process with Javon Taylor and and green spaces and um there are two of them from my perspective some of the most vibrant buildings um I love um just the tradition of putting the flags on I think it's a 600 16th street building when those flags are put up on poles outside of that building and I share that because uh the commitment to Javon Taylor and green spaces um the activation of minority owned businesses um oftentimes that opportunity isn't provided to uh 20 something year old young black man um businessman um that is a statement made by the city, not just simply investing in well we'll bring traffic to 16th street, but a commitment to equity and a commitment to really ensuring that we have a new way of looking at filling those storefronts.

And so wanted to add also that Javon has those has properties in in um the art district in five points.

And we've seen um for our the ROI for those buildings, zero vacancies, absolutely filled with small, amazing um businesses you can only find in Denver.

And so I I just wanted to applaud your team and for Council President and the other board members for the selection, just highlighting these two, not even the uh the tea shop, which I think is fantastic.

I go there all the time at Market Street.

Um these are such smart decisions, but when you pull them off, you just read the names, these would not normally be where this large investment of increments of this debt um would have normally gone to within the history of this city, and so there was a level of risk, but then um, as Council President Pro Tem shared, just really the intricate way of your forecasting and the clarity that yes, these are businesses who may not have received this type of investment before, but they are outperforming their peers.

They are outperforming where they're at, and they're uniquely Denver.

And so I I just wanted to elevate that and say what an amazing job you all did to identify such unique programs, projects, businesses, and to actually validate the leaders who've invested a lot of their life time and sweat and say, you know what?

You're doing amazing, unique work that is uniquely Denver, and we're gonna double down on you.

So appreciate all of that.

Appreciate all of the briefings throughout.

I'm excited for these projects to begin and the uh the parking lots outside of the pavilions, I think that is an interesting purchase as well.

Uh those two parking lots have been uh vacant um even before the pavilions was built.

Um they've been um vacant, and so that investment, looking forward to receiving more updated um reports on once those deals are closed.

Really, what is the expectation if it's actually housing, which I think would be fantastic there, but looking forward to hearing more.

So, no comments because we've had so many briefings on this, and I do appreciate your due diligence.

I just wanted to publicly applaud you and the board for kind of really your thoughtfulness because on paper, the deals that you are making are not the ones folks are gonna say would have the biggest return of investment, just looking at it on paper.

But just the idea and how you're going to infuse excitement from community.

Uh, I know so many folks in five points cannot wait for green spaces and what they're doing on 16th Street Tap, and they cannot wait um to get down into these two beautiful buildings on them all on 16th Street.

So appreciate you.

Thank you.

Oh, uh, can I ask?

I have a couple of questions, sorry.

Uh thank you.

Uh so um, yeah, I just I have a couple of questions.

One is I would say maybe a um ask or to whoever is thinking about going into the McNichols or whatever restaurant.

Can it be like an affordable dining place for us?

I mean, the populace is amazing, but it's a little pricey, the the restaurant there.

Um that would be awesome.

No, I'm just putting a plug in.

Um, but uh yeah, our company has made it very clear they have to go through the procurement process.

Yeah, I think we asked those kind of questions.

I think that's where we're like, we have to go through the procurement process.

So I'm just putting a plug out there for whoever's listening and thinking about putting in their requests that it be somewhere like those of us who work down here can like go and add some graphs of things, have coffee or yeah, half coffee.

Um, yeah.

Uh the other, I guess the other piece I have is um asking about the REMI tool.

So is that being funded through the GDDA?

Who's how are we paying for that tool?

That uh tool has been in place within the Department of Finance for years, okay.

And we've been using it on a way to evaluate any kind of incentive that the city um is proposing on investments.

Okay.

So it's been in practice, okay.

Have we like expanded the use of that because of the development that's happening downtown?

As far as I know, not it's a subscription-based.

Okay.

So I think once you just have an account, you can use it unlimited.

Um, but if that is different, I'll let you know.

Okay, that's great.

Thank you.

Um, the other thing that I wanted to ask about, and maybe this is related to that particular tool, but I did ask about this in the one-on-one briefing I had was about the foot traffic data on 16th Street.

And um, and I believe you all had mentioned like who is doing that evaluation or who is doing that analysis.

Um, I guess I would on top of that, if you can say that here, um, but also how are we measuring foot traffic?

Like, are we measuring it by how long somebody is spending, how much time someone is spending, whether it's downtown or on 16th Street, um, and are there any exclusions?

Oh, so we work in partnership with I think a couple of different tools.

DOF has some analysis that they're doing.

We use a place or AI data, which we utilizes cell phones and then tracks individuals, both in terms of how many unique individuals are downtown and also how much time they're spending downtown because they distinguish, for example, someone who's just driving in their car with a cell phone through a downtown street versus somebody who's actually spending some time.

Uh, I know that the downtown Denver Partnership also does analysis in terms of stickiness of certain areas and blocks where people are lingering, staying shopping, uh, as another measurement component of it as well.

And for us, you know, the downtown foot traffic is something that we're consistently measuring.

Uh, we did have a good report recently that came out of the downtown Denver Partnership, which showcased that we're at 85% uh in the month of July of 2019 levels pre-pandemic.

Um obviously we're trying to get to 100% surpass it, but there are uh a number of different tools that we utilize to measure how many people are coming, how many people are staying, how many people are spending dollars downtown.

So, what is that metric?

Like, what is the amount of time that you're that is saying, okay, they are spending an amount of time.

Like, is it I don't know, 15 minutes, is it more than 15 minutes?

Like, what is that actual metric that's being utilized?

I'm gonna invite Britt from the Downtown Air Partnership to speak a little bit more on that.

Also, Britt, you might comment on the fact that the weekend traffic, Saturday traffic, actually has been high.

Yes.

Hi there, great deal.

I'm the downdoor member partnership.

Thanks so much for having me today.

Um, to explain a little bit more about how Placer works.

Um, it does pain cell phone data.

So when you are on Facebook, for example, and it asks if you want to share your data with other apps, other apps include Placer.

Um, and it's not just, it's not every single person with a cell phone.

So, for example, if you have a five-year-old that doesn't have a cell phone, um, Placer actually takes into account a number of different equations that are able to account for children for those who might not have a cell phone.

Um, it's also able to distinguish between an employee, a visitor, and a resident.

So it looks at behavior patterns, so spending X number of time downtown a certain number of weeks will designate you as an employee.

It looks at those patterns over time.

So if you go on vacation, it doesn't throw you out as an employee.

Um, we're able to see what zip codes folks come from.

Um, and typically um the reference to driving.

Um, if you're spending seven or more minutes somewhere, that designates you as someone who is in that place.

Okay, so you said if you're driving and you're there for seven or more minutes.

So if you're so the reference earlier about, you know, if you're just driving through downtown, it's not necessarily considering you someone who's visiting downtown, um, you need to spend seven or more minutes in seven years.

Okay, that that was the answer to the question I think I was asking.

Is what is the length of time?

What is that metric?

Yes, and how that is being measured.

Um, and then the a follow-up to the like data here, how or who has access to this data?

So we have the downtown member partnership, I believe, share a subscription with Dito.

Okay, yeah, cool.

All right, thank you so much, Britt.

Thank you very much.

Um, the other, I guess, probably last question that I have is just knowing that you know what we've seen over the years in downtown and some of the needs that people that frequent there have, right?

And we're talking about not only consumers or people who live down there or work down there or want to come and play down there, but we also know that there are folks who are experiencing hardship who are unhoused, and we know that we can't just erase people right from the area, and we have to be realistic about that.

Um I guess as part of you know, with the DDA, are we also looking at, you know, are we making sure there are services for people downtown?

And I know there's been a lot of work with the downtown Denver Partnership and and like the ambassadors and all of that stuff.

Um, that I don't know that we've had an update recently on, but just curious.

Are those things being considered as we are looking at investing um you know in into the area and that we should probably also be looking at are we providing accessible and available services, so that if there are people downtown that are in need of assistance, that they have a place to go, and we're not trying to like pretend that they're not gonna be there, right?

By saying, oh, you go to this place that's like way outside of this area, even though that may be the hub where they congregate.

I'm happy to speak to it from my perspective, and I'll leave it to Bill.

Um, you know, the plan of development that was approved by City Council really focuses the majority of our investments on what's going to produce economic returns and economic output.

And so any applications that we're receiving uh need to be able to prove that from an ROI perspective on the piece itself.

Now, some of the kind of human service elements or accessibility elements, if they're not necessarily deriving that economic return, they wouldn't necessarily be prioritized in terms of a DDA evaluation based on the POD that was approved by City Council.

Um that being said, I think we are thinking holistically about downtown, and we have a concentration of services in our downtown area that we want to make sure that we're taking advantage of and being able to drive folks towards it.

Uh, for example, one of the thoughts I've had uh around our workforce center, which is specifically connecting folks to opportunities for training and upscaling as well as connections to job opportunities.

Of could we potentially look at what would it take for us to have a workforce center location downtown that's a storefront versus something inside the well building behind a security wall?

Um those are the kinds of things I think we're thinking about broadly, but with the DDA specifically, we have to stick within the confines of that uh evaluation and the plan of development that was that was approved.

I would be curious to know if there would be a return on investment by offering services and like if people are accessing services down there and then maybe they're grabbing a bike to eat somewhere, you know what I mean?

Like, I think there can be perhaps a connection there made, and I would be just curious to see if that's something that could be looked into.

Sure, absolutely.

And would love to look at applications that are specifically kind of derived in reaching that outcome.

Great.

All right, Councilman Hines, did you have another comment or question you wanted to make?

Um, okay, thank you.

Okay, thank you so much.

All right, um, well, seeing no other questions in the queue, thank you so much um for all the all of the work and the board.

I look forward to seeing how that board expands, of course, as you know, Donna.

We've had lots of conversations about that.

Um, with that said, this is an item uh action item, so I will need a motion and a second.

Okay, I see councilman Watson moving and council pro temp.

Sorry, she beat you to the punch.

Council Pro Temer Campbell seconding.

Um, is there any need for a roll call vote?

Not seeing none, everybody's good.

This will move forward to the full council.

Thank you so much.

Um, with that said, we do have one item on consent that will also move forward, seeing no one has pulled it off.

Uh, and we are adjourned.

Thank you.