Welcome back to this weekly meeting of the Health and Safety Committee with Denver City Council.

Coverage of the Health and Safety Committee starts now.

Good morning.

This is the November 12.

Thank you.

We have a little echo.

I'll wait for a second.

Let me know, producer, when we're solid.

We solid.

All right.

Good deal.

Good morning.

This is a November 12th Health and Safety Committee meeting.

My name is Darrell Watson.

I'm honored to serve as the city council member representing all of the fine district nine and also as the chair of the health and safety uh committee.

Um we have uh one uh action item.

Um it's the mayoral appointment of Al Gardner as executive director of Department of Safety.

We'll have uh that confirmation discussion and dialogue.

Um, I remind um my council members, um, based on Rule 713, uh committee procedures for resolution seeking council consent of mayoral appointees.

There are specific um uh there's a specific way in which this um dialogue um questions are asked and what questions can and cannot be asked.

You can find that in your email that you received this morning.

Um, and then if there's any questions um as a chair, I'll I'll provide uh clarity.

We will have um an opening comment by um the acting director, uh Gardner.

Um no presentation, and then we'll go directly to Councilmember Sawyer who called this item off of consent to begin.

Um we're gonna do the funky five minutes as based on the criteria uh within charter, and it will show up on the screen.

So council members will have five minutes for their questions.

You don't have to use it all, but you will have five minutes as based on 713, what that provides for.

Um once again, you'll see that email in your email box from John Griffin if you need additional details.

And John is here available also to answer any questions you may have.

Uh so with that, um, why don't we go around and have introductions as we normally do?

We'll start on our right, starting with Councilmember Flynn.

Uh well, you just introduced me.

Thank you.

Uh Kevin Flynn, South West Denver's District 2.

Wow.

Oh.

You got over there.

I'll be right back to you.

Amanda Sawyer District 5.

Good morning, Amanda Sandoval, Northwest Denver District 1.

Good morning, Paul Cashman, South Denver District 6.

Oh my goodness.

Guys, uh, good morning, Diana Romero Campbell, Southeast Denver District 4.

Lucky District 7.

Jamie Torres, West Denver District 3.

And we have council members online.

Uh Councilmember uh Perry, I believe you're you're on.

I am Sarah Perity, one of your council members at large.

And unless we have another council member on the Council Council members, thank you so much for joining us.

Um, why don't we begin first?

Um, Councilmember Sorry, before your comments, um, acting director, um council councilman, acting director Gardner.

Let me give you a few moments uh to share whatever your thoughts are, and then we'll go right into uh council member uh questions.

Yeah, thank you.

Um councilman watson.

I appreciate it.

Um I guess from from an opening opening statement perspective.

Uh, you know, I'm here this morning to really obviously answer the any questions that you have, uh, concerns, insights.

Uh, but probably more important to me um is to maybe paint a picture uh for you of how the department safety looks uh under my leadership and define that why uh even closely.

Um that's probably the most important thing.

I don't think that there is a lot under the surface under the hood to to dig in terms of um what my motivations are as they are, really wanting to see the city continue to move forward um and find the best way we'll we continue to expand those communication and utilize all those channels that we have to to improve our department.

So that's my opening statement.

Uh please do uh bring your questions and and concerns and thoughts, and I look forward to to engaging.

Thank you so much, acting Director.

And now we're gonna start the very new and interesting process that we have just for this discussion.

We're gonna have a timer on the screen for five minutes.

Um, and we'll start first with Councilmember Sawyer, since she called this off of consent.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you, Director Gardner, for being here.

I really appreciate it.

I really have one question, but I want to kind of caveat it with a beginning, right?

Um you have you do not have safety experience.

You're not a lawyer, you're not you're not a lawyer, you're not a you're not a cop, you're not a firefighter.

You haven't been a sheriff, right?

Um, and uh you have been really vocal about um some of the things that have come through, particularly at the state, that um our safety agencies aren't thrilled about, right?

Um, and so I just want to make sure before I vote to confirm you, because I will just say I think that the um, you know, the strong mayor form of government allows the mayor to uh nominate who that mayor thinks is the appropriate manager for um an agency, and so I am very respectful of that, but we've also heard from community concerns.

Um so I just want to know how do you plan to kind of build the bridges that need to be built as the manager of safety with our safety departments, given that they are um, you know, that they are paramilitary organizations that have kind of a culture of respect that is earned um on the ground, and you don't have that, right?

And then with our community who um has been has shared with us that they're really suspicious about um you know someone who doesn't have safety experience being in this role.

So I I really appreciate you being here.

I as you know, have a ton of respect for you.

We've worked together a really long time.

Um, but I do have a concern about that and want to just hear from you about it.

Yeah, uh, thank you, Councilwoman, and that's fair.

See, where do I want to start?

Yeah, it was a big question, but I only get five minutes.

No, it's all right.

You know, I I'll start here in terms of the composition of the job.

Um, and when I first took a look at the job, um, one of the things that I did notice is that the actual value is on the fact that I'm not necessarily from a law enforcement background.

Um, and I think the job was composed like that on purpose.

Uh, because in this job, you make a lot of decisions that sometimes may not be amenable or are looked upon favorably from any of the law enforcement agencies that we have in the city, and I think there was a certain amount of intentionality behind choosing uh the mayor being able to choose someone that does not have law enforcement experience.

Uh so I think it was intentionally put like that, and I think it was goes back to 1960, and I think six of the 16 past 16 um folks in my position uh have not also had a law enforcement experience, uh so it wouldn't be precedent setting, but I think that's the reason for it, and which I see as a true strength because I've spent time on the opposite side, I guess, in terms of COB and CSC, which I think are valuable.

Do you mind um those acronyms?

I'm sorry, thank you.

Civil Service Commission and Citizens Oversight Board, thank you.

Because they give me special insight as into how these different discipline mechanisms work in spending time with coming up with the discipline matrix, even going back maybe 10 or 12 years.

So I've been intimately involved on the decision level basis for for a number of years over a dozen years, and that's given me a particular amount of insight.

When it comes to gaining trust, um I think I've also spent a lot of time, you know, with the unions and gaining their trust.

And and I want to say it like this because I want to be clear.

Um, when I'm looking for trust from them, um, is it about telling them the truth?

Um when I met with a particular union, it was about, yes, um, I would like for you to to make sure that I have your trust.

At the same time, trust goes both ways.

Um, I have no interest in only gaining someone's trust from a single from a single perspective, but this goes both ways.

Not only that, what I told them is I will not always agree with you.

I don't agree with anybody 100% of the time.

I told them to use my exact word, I don't agree with my wife 100% of times, and I love her.

All right, come on now, so my point is, and I was very clear on either.

I don't mince my words on that, and so what they did tell me at the end of that meeting is that you know what that may be true, but you know what, Al, we respect that, and we respect that what you tell us will be what is, and I'm gonna say with all of the three or four major unions in this city, I've been able to, I believe, go into that trust.

Another thing is I've spent a lot of times going out on calls.

I've I've spent hours uh since being on this job on barricades and and uh ambulance visits, and you name it.

So I've put my feet in the street on that.

I've accepted a number of uh challenge coins from those different commanders since being on there.

So I think um, not to mention I've spent a lot of time with folks who are now um in our command staff or lieutenants.

I remembered when they were sergeants or lieutenants and have spent a lot of time.

So I think that that's the way um I'm building that trust.

And hopefully I've answered the the questions there.

Yeah, uh just one follow-up question is in terms of community.

In terms of building a bridge with the community as well, given that there's just a um a lot of concern around and has been for a number of years now around kind of our public safety agencies.

Yes, I agree.

And and and once again, I come from that side who's had concern about the safety agencies and have been on record with that.

Matter of fact, you know, the reason why the independent monitor is now separate and not a choice of the mayor, because I actively worked and believed that that was the best place for that to be.

Um, and now sitting in his chair, I don't see it any different.

I still believe that, even though there will obviously be times when we will disagree, and and and the system is designed that way on purpose.

I've spent a lot of time going out in community, um, just had a couple of community, I had one community event, uh, and I continue to go out and constantly try to build those bridges.

I think there are a number of folks who I've spoken with and have provided letters of support for that will show you kind of the length and breadth.

I have a I kind of tend to build a broad coalition of people when I say that, because I visit everywhere uh and I like to talk to a lot of different people.

I went down to Broadway uh and had a very lengthy discussion uh with business owners about their business, and I sat there for over two and a half hours, and they were not happy, and I absorbed it.

And when I walked away, my message to them was not to try and walk away saying I'm going to do this, this, this, this, this, to improve your lot, and you will never have problems again.

What I did tell them is thank you for the information.

Now I need to synthesize it.

We need to gain plan of how we can do better.

It made no sense for me to sit there and tell them this is what we're doing.

If it's not working for them, why would I do that?

And to me, that's disrespectful to community.

Um, so I've spent a lot of time having these discussions, being honest, and really going back and figuring out how we can gain plan, not just short term but long term.

Really appreciate that.

Thank you very much.

Thanks, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilmember Sawyer.

Uh, Councilmember Flynn.

Um, Mr.

Chair.

Um, Al, I know that Denver has had at least I can remember only two civilian uh managers of safety, folks who have uh no lived experience in law enforcement or as an attorney in the DA's office like Allah Cabe, you know, folks like that.

Uh they were long ago, it's been a while that I can recall.

Elvin Caldwell, a council member, was appointed by McNichols to be manager of safety, and uh the only other one I remember is Bush Montoya under uh Webb, Stephanie O'Malley.

But tell me why.

Stephanie O'Malley, John Simon.

Yeah, well John was under sheriff, yeah, Stephanie.

Stephanie.

John's under sheriff under me.

And Hancock.

Uh and Stephanie, thank you.

Um why do you think you, as a civilian, uh the best choice to take over oversight of the safety uh department?

And uh particularly how does your experience on the Citizen Oversight Board and the Civil Service Commission, how does that inform your approach?

Because I saw your what you sent to us, as far as your outline from the department, Chair.

I'll say in America, the structure's always been civilian oversight, over all uniform services.

Even when we look at our presidents, we look at Barack Obama, who had no military experience, but they become the chief of the chief of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marines, right?

We see that that model has always been what's kind of separated us from the PAC in terms of leadership in this country over any type of forces that are armed.

Um, so first I'll uh disaggregate the value of having that just as a national model.

We come to the city model, um, and we see the same value in that.

Um, like I mentioned earlier, I think there is value, there is a lot of value into ensuring uh that the person who's leading our departments, and I say our departments because I also live here, and this is a value to me as well.

And I think that being able to see them not from any previous experience that one has had, because typically we react and we make judgments based on um our informed experience, and I see that as being a plus by having civilian oversight, and there again I'll go to the fact that I think the the framers and those who came up with this concept, I think that's a benefit.

And I think we have seen benefit of that in the past.

Um I also think it's a method to be able to mobilize change more effectively and and more and more inclusively uh because one thing that I've spent a lot of times doing is educating people that the Department of Safety is not just the Department of Police, it also covers fire, it also covers 9-1-1, it also covers community corrections, and I think there is a automatic focus on police because they're the most visible a lot of times, but I think the advantage, if if I might cite another one of being a civilian in this role, is that you don't have to only focus on one agency, but you're focused on a holistic approach to safety.

Uh, we've been saying for years that we need to put more energy into prevention and enforcement, and we need to put more more focus on how we're dealing with folks who are going through our criminal justice system.

How do we prevent recidivism?

How do we do all of this?

Well, we can't, we we can't afford to continue to take a myopic approach, and I think the advantage of being a civilian is that you see it from 360, you see it from 30,000 feet, and you don't see it based on past experience in one particular agency.

When it comes to the question, um, specifically, I know you asked about why it's that, and then the second one.

What was the second part of that?

How does your service here be in civil service?

I'm glad you asked.

Um, one thing that you learned a lot um in citizens oversight board and civil service dimension, which I always saw tremendous value in, and I've always advocated for, is because you get a chance and an opportunity to look behind the curtain, and you start to understand how these systems interact.

So a large portion of this job, a lot of this job is discipline.

And it's dealing with discipline, and it's dealing with discipline of officers and and and fire personnel.

And in order for you to understand the downstream effects of those decisions that you make, not only that, how it impacts um the citizen, the community.

I think Citizen Oversight Board expose me to that a lot in terms of the in the downstream impacts of the decisions that are made upstream.

Um, I think they should inform those decisions, and I think as I'm contemplating those, I'm also considering how the downstream effects of that are to the citizens, right?

To COVID to OIM, to these other groups that take will take a look at this decision and try to figure out why was this decision made do we have a good basis for this decision?

What's the rationale behind it?

And I think there again that civilian piece comes into play because I'm able to look three 60 and not just there but that's how it informs um how I make decisions.

I want to pull back and I want to add more people to the room before decisions made historically there have been three people in a meeting I've added about six to this meeting because what I found out was when I go to this person they have a completely different perspective and had no idea that meeting was taking place.

When I go to this person we typically aren't in this meeting so what do I do?

Pull everyone in so we can have a more rounded discussion about why these decisions are made and so that's how I see that background coming into play with us.

Thank you sir, uh thank you Councilmember Flynn wanted to pause for a second and um for we have two council members are online.

We have a current queue I just want to make sure because sometimes connectivity is hard if you are interested in um jumping in the queue you can either raise your hand reach out to me and messenger but I don't want to miss councilmemberity or councilmember Lewis your opportunity to jump into the queue.

We have an ongoing queue uh councilmember Torres then council president pro temper Campbell and Councilmember Cashman.

Thank you Mr.

Chair I'm next yes thank you.

Thank you Al.

One you reminded me I think our first opportunity working together was um when you were chair of COB and I was appointed by then President Gilmore to help with the transition process when Nick Mitchell left the monitor's office and we found um Liz uh Perez Castle and so um it's interesting and I I think about I think that trajectory um that you've had based in that experience because I started in the city uh in 2001 with the public safety review commission which was the model of the independent um oversight um uh before the independent monitor was created it was a review it was a civilian review panel um and I'm curious if you've had um uh any similar grounding because that was also my first experience in in local government um and it was really being able to look at where community plays a role in public safety um and that experience was you know these were civilians some were lawyers some were pastors or reverends they were just people committed to community who were tasked with reviewing cases looking at was the discipline appropriate was there any discipline did there was there a need for an independent investigation um for you not having like I assume that was kind of your first um public safety Denver public safety experience how does that inform or like what do you bring into your experience now because since then civil service commission general services which I think is a really interesting place to get experience about how the city operates how do we get contracts how do we procure services we work together on the auto donation piece with which honestly I was shocked that you and uh Adrena came back to me and said let's do this we know this is the way that things have typically been done we know that for years folks have said hey it's an ordinance we can't donate but you came back and said this seems right let's figure it out just wondering what you take into your that that role or that experience based on those interactions no thank you thank you councilwoman torres that that is so true and um matter of fact um when I was talking to one of the my former fellow citizens oversight board members and was talking to them about this role.

She reminded me that this is something that I mentioned when I when I first started uh with it, and I completely forgot about that, about a desire to do that um as I sit here today and I look out um and the folks who are in the gallery, there's one person that I'm looking at who came to the Citizens oversight board.

I remember when she would show up almost more than the members and sit in our meetings.

And now she has been on that board for quite a while.

I mean getting ready to rotate off, become one of the most uh impactful board members.

I think that this is a greater testament as to why we're constantly encouraging people to get involved as city government.

We appreciate that a lot.

We tell people that it's worth it.

We tell them that this is what they should do.

We tell them to volunteer, and that's what folks do.

They step up, they get involved, they start learning the system, and they take it on their own.

I wasn't paid for this.

These are volunteer assignments.

I was I didn't receive any promises, nobody made me any plans, but I chose to do this for years for free to learn, and I poured my heart into it.

And this is what we tell citizens to do.

We tell them to get involved, and we tell them that the reward to this is that you become you have a greater stake in this city, and people believe that.

And I think what I'm doing here today, the way that the reason I'm sitting here today is because it started there.

And before that, it started at the Denver African American Commission.

That was my first foray.

And I began to work with the Sheriff's Department on creating a lactation clinic when we found out that there was difficulty there, and asking the sheriff to repaint the walls in the jail to make it seem more like home to try and bring, which the sheriff now has done a taking that concept and just ran with that a thousand yards and done a larger job than I could have ever imagined.

But it started there.

That interest in public safety started there, right?

And then it moved to citizens oversight board for we tell people that and they get involved, and then we do.

And then you have somebody like me that actually believes that, and I do it, and I walk in the doors and I start making things move.

General services then, as I'm there, I'm looking at how do we get to yes.

And I spent a lot of time with the employees of general services saying, how do we get to yes, not no?

How do we get to yes?

And so that's how we ended up being able to do so many different things, like taking a look at our contracting process.

If we don't need to make it more cumbersome for folks to come and do business in the city, how do we untangle that?

And then how do we close the space and collapse daylight in between organizations like uh Disbo particular and the contracting department, where essentially they have two separate functions, but they're trying to do the same thing.

And how do we get them on the same team to work together?

And that took me seven 17 months, it just happened to work out, where now there are two very important teams that are able to work together to shorten the time that actually improve the lives of small businesses.

And I take both of those things into this job.

A, General Services was a very good point for me to enter in to learn the business of the city, because the business of the city is done a lot of times through GS because it touches every agency.

And so now I have those relationships, cross-functional relationships with my peers, where I understand what they're doing, and I'm able to speak their language, and I'm able to go with them, and I've built trust with them.

And they know when I say something, uh I'm not just saying it, and they know that I'm gonna work to them to get to yes.

Like I've worked with uh many on this council to find out how we can do it.

And if I were to marry those two, uh, councilwoman, that's the way I see it.

Um I see COB as being that entry point, um, Citizens Oversight Board, sorry.

Uh sorry, Chair, um uh, Mr.

Chair, and and the general services of being able to tie all of that together once I got inside of the House.

Thank you.

Yes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Torres.

Uh, Council President Pratem, Romero Campbell and then Councilmember Cash.

Uh, thank you, Mr.

Chair, and um thank you for being here today.

Um, as well.

I appreciate um taking, you know, the meeting we got into the briefing and had a conversation, and I was, I think you've really touched on it in some of your answers, or some of your responses today.

Um, but I remember a part of our conversation was about transferable skills.

And really, in the time that we are in and what those transferable skills are, as far as operations, the knowledge of technology, the knowledge of being able to consolidate some of the, you know, creating efficiencies and so forth.

Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Yes.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

I don't know.

If I were to look at my career as a it's a patchwork, I spent 28 years in technology, but I spent in multiple verticals: banking, government, hospitality, and health care.

And at a time where you start to look and wonder how those play into each other.

I'll tell you, the beginning of my career, I started off pulling telephone cable inside of buildings, working with the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, IBW Local Union 716 in Houston Texas.

That's where I started.

And from there, an opportunity, and I'm gonna answer your question, but it came the opportunity came open to instead of being an electrician, they said, Al, we have an opportunity for you to get into technology.

And that's how I moved into uh technology and I stayed there for the past 28 years.

As I was in technology, I never stopped learning other different parts of the business.

I always had a focus on business.

So I was able then to move from multiple verticals from vertical to vertical to vertical from government to otherwise.

The transferable skill piece is that when I got ready to work for uh health care, what I learned in hospitality actually transferred because yes, the technology piece is the same, but it taught me how to be um very detailed oriented.

Uh, when you're talking about hospital systems, I'm talking I manage literally thousands of those systems a day, anywhere from patient interaction to video phone calls to allowing doctors to be able to transcribe their information easier to you name it.

There are literally thousands of pieces that go into that.

But the attention to detail was formed way back down the line.

And at every turn, I've been able to um to meld that or to marry that to the next different process.

So being able to carry that from one to another, I've successfully done that for the past 28 years.

Um, I think another transferable skill, especially as important right now, councilwoman, is that technology experience because now law enforcement and technology are inextricably linked.

Technology is inextricably linked in every portion of what we do every day, and it's no longer that and, but it's both.

I think when we start looking at technology and we start looking at technology contracts for the city, I've spent dozens of years now being able to go through uh technology contracts and understand the pace and why we need to upgrade and where we need to upgrade and what type of bounds need to go around the technology and working with disparate businesses, uh parts of the business to say what are your thoughts on the different policy and building that policy um while we're building that technology.

I think that's very important for the city at this particular time because we have to decide how we're going to use any type of new technology that comes into the city.

Um, the principle that I work off of are people, process, and technology, which we've heard before, and what makes sense to do when.

I think when we take a look at fixed asset depreciation or asset depreciation when it comes to whether or not we need to refresh body cameras.

When does that actual cycle need to be there?

Is that a five-year cycle?

Is it a 10-year cycle?

Is it a three-year cycle?

How do we apply that to our purchasing uh habits?

I think when I take a look at the technology roadmap, also looking at the first public safety roadmap that the city's ever done because we've never had one.

And I think every viable um public um uh entity, uh especially all around the country, has those, and it informs our buying principles.

And so I see all of these different things as being able to carry over to this job, and specifically the technology one that I think is is very important as we as we go forward and take a look at all these technologies that help us be a force multiplier for our police fire and sheriff.

Hopefully that answers your question.

Am I under my five minutes?

Oh, I do.

I probably took longer.

Sorry, I didn't look up there.

No, I appreciate it.

Um technology, but also um I remember you had talked about some efficiencies and looking at it kind of from the business aspect and return on investment, not technology related, but more um the operations.

Yes, thank you.

Yeah, and and and that's a major part as well because it goes back to the question that was asked to me earlier about why a civilian um and why someone with no law enforcement.

I think someone with business acumen in background is probably, if not more important, I would say it's extremely important because you're talking about the ability to manage million-dollar budgets.

Uh uh, you're talking about managing capacity and you're talking about managing people.

I think when we add into the equation total cost of ownership, and we add into the equation all the operational pieces about why we're doing the things that we're doing.

I'll back up and I'll point to a particular thing that we're looking at.

When we look at the discipline pipeline right now, particularly in one of our departments, and we see that there are hundreds in there, right?

We're tempted very quickly to look at how some technology can fix it, right?

But I think the business operations part of me wants to take a look at the workflow, wants to take a look at the occupational side of it and how the work is flowing, how we're doing it, and where there's potential ways for us to do better.

And that's where that acumen comes into play.

Uh, because you're not just doing it there again for police, but you're also doing that for fire.

When it comes to there's a particular budget to refresh safety equipment.

Well, the question then becomes, and the question that that uh what we need to inform city council of is how often we need to replace those oxygen tanks, or we need to place those face masks based on um the rotation and and cost of these things.

So the operational piece actually digs underneath the hood, is able to provide more information, and I think that's a big plus uh to what to what I would bring to the table.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

I don't have any other questions.

Thanks, Council President.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Um, Councilmember Cashman and then Councilmember Perity.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

How good to see you?

Um I did a quick Google that 15 of our US presidents never served in the military.

You know, commander-in-chief of the most powerful military, perhaps on the planet.

I don't know.

I right now think that we've spent enough time in our city's history having the um a leader of our safety department being someone with a law enforcement background.

Um they need to be able to understand law enforcement, but I'm looking for some more with a broader perspective on how to achieve public safety.

Uh I wonder if you might talk a little bit.

We had lunch.

We talked about this, your willingness to look at uh public safety from a public health perspective, in addition to the more traditional badge and gun angle of law enforcement.

No, thanks.

Um, thank you, Councilman.

Um, I've spent probably more of my time the past two and a half months with our community corrections personnel than I have uh the police and sheriff personnel.

Um my site visits um have been mostly there.

I've done one site visit at the sheriff department, I've done three with our community corrections, spent a lot of time with folks who are going through our system, and we're seeking to rehabilitate or provide a path to work and home.

And I brought that individual, Greg Marlowe, say his name, uh, because he's someone who also works with safety that we don't see, we don't hear about, and his name is just as important as Chief Ron Thomas or Sheriff Sheriff uh Elias Diggins.

But we don't hear about a Greg Morrow, which I never knew what he did, or his team, but I've spent a lot of time with them finding out and understanding why their funding is so important.

Now, that informs my ability as a safety leader to be able to articulate to this body why it is then that we're making requests for X funding.

It also informs my ability to help guide funding requests for police and fire and sheriff, right?

When we start asking questions, why are we funding this more than that?

That's the type of questions that from a business operation perspective, you're able to answer through data through analysis, right?

And I think going in that direction with someone who understands how to do that and to refocus those energies because I know that that's a passion of yours.

It's also a passion of mine.

How do we do this over here more succinctly?

How do we do this more efficiently so that we can fund that?

I think that's very important in this role.

I've said before that to your point to do the same thing every day and expect a different outcome, is insanity.

As long as I have been involved with safety, we've been asking that question over and over and over and over again.

And I think it's time for us to really focus on safety holistically from a public safety perspective.

I spent a lot of times with uh gang intervention groups, worked with CPCC, um, their board member uh Jonathan McMillan a lot.

I'm sorry.

What's CPCC?

Oh, that's right.

Of course.

Oh, goodness, crime prevention and control counts.

Thank you.

That was created under uh past Mayor Michael Michael Hancock to to uh distribute this these funds across.

Thank you.

Working with Jonathan McMillan a lot and those gang task force and harm reduction.

Here's one thing that we've noticed there's no shortage of organizations that do this work.

So they're like, they're hundreds out there at that particular fair.

I met uh one young lady, introduced her to um another young man that I was working with.

They didn't know each other, but they do the same thing.

The question then becomes how does the city become involved uh with trying to coalesce all of these different functions?

How do we work together better to bring all of these things together so that we're attacking the problem more more succinctly and with more focus?

So, councilman, that's how I see um that type of background coming into a health and safety perspective is really focusing the energy from a resource perspective and then doing it to be able to bring all these different uh parts of the community together to to inform it.

Yeah, I appreciate that, and I uh liked your answer about expanding the voices that you're listening to, and I hope you'll continue to expand uh that chorus uh if you are in fact confirmed.

I definitely definitely hope to.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman.

Thank you, Councilmember Cashman.

Uh, Councilmember Perity and then Councilmember.

Hi there, Director Gardner.

It's good to see your face, and I also appreciate the time that you spent with me in a meeting recently.

Um I'm sure it's been a large chunk of your calendar lately, um, these council meetings.

So um we have heard concerns about your, as um several of my colleagues referenced about uh sort of having um not having substantive experience uh directly working in public safety.

Um I will say for the record that I actually don't agree with that as a concern because I think that we are looking for um a civilian you know director.

Um but I do think it's important to be conversant with these issues.

Um obviously you have uh served on relevant boards, we've heard some about that.

Um but I think it would help me to sort of answer these concerns if you could give me like one example of something that you um concretely think needs to be done differently than what um the prior director of safety did, or um that just needs a change within the safety agencies, like one thing that is just top of mind for you when you get in that that should be done differently.

Yeah, thank you, councilwoman, and thank you again for for meeting with me.

I appreciate that.

Things I'll point to, I'll say um discipline and budget.

Uh and when I say that, I mean stakeholders who are involved in it.

Um, I don't believe that our system is broken.

At the same time, I do feel that our system can be improved upon.

And when I say that, I mean more seats at the table who are making those decisions.

Now, right now, we get to choose the group who there you are.

We get to choose the group when we're making these decisions around how we arrive at these decisions, and I think sometimes they're done in silos, and I think it's important for us to try and find ways to um de-silo that process by bringing historically folks who may not have been in the same room into the same room.

Uh, and I think there's tremendous value in that because now we begin to to look at the the whatever the case is more holistically, and we have differing opinions on that because it's informed by different experiences.

That is extremely important uh right now, and that's something that I have started to do in my approach to how we take a look at this.

The second thing is from a budget perspective and how we forecast, adopt, and communicate those needs to city council as well as the community about the why.

I think when a question is asked why something is being done, I always look at that as an opportunity to do a better job to defy to define why it's being done, or either have us go back and really ask the question in terms of should it still be done?

If it should, how do we back that up with data and analysis?

So, right now, those are two big things that are on my board that I've started to look at, and that's adding more data uh analysis to it, and because there are two is a difference between data and information.

And I think data is one thing, it's just numbers.

Information is what you do with that data, and I think there are opportunities there uh for us to take a look at the information that that data is producing, and to go back and find out whether or not we need to either retool the way we're doing something, the way we need to refocus something, or the way that we need to potentially modify, and those are those are two things that are top of mind right now.

I think you're on mute.

Sorry, I was reassuring the chair that I'm watching my five-minute deadline.

Um, but the in terms of the are you talking about the stakeholding for um the proposal to switch to education-based discipline?

And if you are, I would like to hear a little more specifically um who you think that needs to be stakeholded with, because we talked about this during our meeting as well, and I'm still um a little bit looking for your answer on that.

Yeah, no, not in particular.

I wasn't referring to that in particular, uh, councilwoman, as much as it was just holistically from the executive director's office.

There are many discussions that take place in terms of just discipline, not from EBD, but other things that happen run of the mill every day that run through that office, um, and bringing other parts of the department of safety in that same room to have a more uh enriched and informed discussion in general.

Do I have a minute left or no, Mr.

Chair?

You you have about three minutes.

Okay.

Oh, that's funny.

Okay.

So then my other question would be um it's interesting to me that you do have a long background in um tech, and so I'm curious if that gives you any view on the city's contract with flock safety and if you followed um kind of the coverage and the issues with that.

I have followed that.

I would answer it from a more uh broader 30,000 foot view in terms of it informing how I view um policy, procedure, um, safeguards, um, data protection, um, you know, the use of information, how it how it informs um how my approach to it.

And I will say from the Department of Safety perspective, if we look at um our agreements with different companies in terms of how we will use and guard and safeguard data, I think that's where my my tech background would come to inform that.

I think right now, as we look at how the mayor, um, we look at the the Denver drop down, and we look at the non-sharing of information and things like that.

I look at my focus is ensuring that those things are followed and done, um and that we're able to safeguard information.

And then also look at it from a policy perspective that informs how we make those decisions in the future.

Um, as a city, what is our what is our AI policy?

What is our data retention policy?

What is our technology policy that governs how we how we look at how we test and how we bring in different technologies into the city?

I think there's a big opportunity there to really dig in and define that really clearly along with uh my partners at TS and really create a more of a framework for how we approach these technologies in the future.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Parity, uh, Councilmember Alvidras, and Councilmember Lewis.

Thank you.

Um, thank you, committee chair.

I appreciate uh your interest in the role.

I will say I do have concerns um just about the experience that I've had with the administration and uh with yourself uh with general services, and so my question you focus a lot on trust building, and there hasn't been a lot of trust building from um the safety cameras going behind our back from these commissions that are resigning because they feel like their voices already don't matter, and then you want to bring in other people from the public when I feel like where's the trust with this body um going in your future, especially when it comes to things like creating a budget, and how did you look at this budget that you helped create differently than um other budgets in the past, yeah.

Thank you, councilwoman.

I will say this in terms of um trust building.

I think I'm taking a forward looking approach to that.

Um I have to because I took this job August 31st, um, and I have to look at it as a forward forward movement process.

Um, although sometimes it's tempting uh to look at things where they are right now, I see it as real opportunity, uh, which is why my answers a lot revolve around bringing different perspectives and making council aware of the why and translating that data to information.

These are all opportunities as I see it to rebuild the trust.

Um, sometime that is uh chipped away at and eroded at.

Um that's important to me.

I think that's important.

More importantly, then it'd be important to me.

It's important to the city.

The city requires and demands um that the departments work together, that DOS Department of Safety works well with city council, and this is the type of expectations that the citizenry has.

So I think I look at it that way as forward building.

How do I influence that?

And how do I bring the information that this body needs in order to make those informed decisions?

When it comes to the budget process, um, I actually had to learn a lot in three weeks, I think.

Um, and that was essentially looking at it around uh 800 million dollars and 5200 people in about three weeks and trying to get my arms around exactly where all of this went.

Um so I did my best there to understand where we are.

In that process, it also informed then how I would like to approach this going forward.

I think a lot of valuable questions came forward doing this during this uh during our rounds of budget, me standing up there answering those questions for me, created more questions that then I needed to go back and really work with my team, which I have been doing to better define and answer each one of those questions that this body has, and how do we prevent that in the in the future?

How do we create for you there again a roadmap so that you can see how the money is being spent?

How do we need to add in more line item budget explanation?

What does it take for for this body to be comfortable with the choices that we're making?

So I see it as an opportunity, and the second thing is I see the budget there again in the coming years as a opportunity to build upon the questions that you've asked in this particular round.

Um, just to follow up on that, you mentioned you know, bringing more people to the table.

My concern is that we have a lot of people at the table, and there are a lot of opinions, and we're not coming to solutions, and we're putting together things like task forces and not listening to them, that we have people on the citizen oversight board that resigned because of some of the things that are happening, that we have had a vacancies on the Civil Service Commission and a lack of interest from people wanting to serve on these boards because they feel like they're not their voices are not mattering.

And so, how do you plan on rebuilding that trust and addressing the people at the table right now when you're bringing more people to the table?

Yeah, thank you.

We have to look internally first before we look externally, and I've been on the other side of that table frustrated with this process that goes on on this side of the table, quite frankly.

I've been that person, and what I have not liked, and what I did not like when I was on that other side of the table, is to see on the inside.

I didn't like to see a lot of fighting.

I didn't like to see a lot of finger pointing.

I could have cared less who didn't like who, what the history was, whose agenda was what?

I didn't care.

I'm a community member, and this is what I want fixed.

And that's what drove me and propelled me to want to get involved because I wanted to be part of that fixing.

So that informs what I'm saying right now with, I'm not talking about adding more external.

As much as it is inside the house, how do we get the people to the table inside of the house first?

That historically may not have been there, who may not have been invited, maybe because of a differing opinion or a point of view.

How do we sit at that table and come to some type of understanding?

It may not, a win may not look at leaving the table with that particular agenda being filled.

I don't approach tables like that.

I don't approach a table saying if I walk, if I walk away with this, I've won.

I approach a table by saying if I walk away with someone understanding what I'm saying, we agreeing that we're both trying to prove it.

Now that's a win.

Because I may never get to X.

And who's the one that's hurt?

Citizens are hurt.

The people of Denver are hurt.

If I sit at that table and I take my emotions out of it and I remove all of what Al wants to win, and I and I take my selfishness out of it, now I'm able to sit at that table and say, okay, Al, you may not walk away with everything, but how do we come away with this?

And so what I'm saying is anything that I would have control over, I'm less concerned about trying to have the same people at the table internally, as much as it is looking.

Maybe we need to expand this table.

Maybe we need to make decisions around funding for different technologies or pieces.

Maybe that table internally needs to be looked at first.

And so when I say that, I mean in the department.

I mean in the city, and how do how do we do a better job of that?

Okay, I may have, but I'll leave it there.

Thank you, committee chair.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman.

Uh Councilmember Lewis, and then the queue is still open.

Hi, thank you so much.

Um I just have a few questions, um, Director Gardner.

And the first one, you and I have spoken about um concerns that I've heard about from community about your experience, and again, I'm less concerned about that.

I'm more interested in um what it looks like for you to approach community and how you engage community.

And I know you had one community meeting, but I'm curious as to what your approach is going to be in order to get yourself out there and and in front of communities to ask questions, um, to have them the opportunity to ask questions for you to answer them and for you to present your um vision for safety.

Yes, thank you, Councilwoman Lewis.

Um, I would say this in 2026, we're not budgeted for a community of the liaison role.

So the Department of Safety doesn't have one, um, and that means that the executive director is going to have to do that day job, and they're gonna have to be in that community a lot.

Um, that's now part of the role.

Um, now part of the role to be very intentional about going out and hearing the concerns of not just people who are typically coming to these meetings, but the folks who have become disengaged and disenfranchised, and frankly tired, um, of even trying to come.

I think there's a tricky side that the folks that show up at community meetings are typically the people who are very plugged in.

Those are the folks like uh me and I was, and most of the folks in this room, we're already engaged.

It doesn't take much outreach to try and get us.

It's not a hard task to engage somebody that's already engaged.

I think yes, ma'am.

I just want to make sure that I'm getting that you're getting out the question that I'm hoping to answer it because it's it's the reason I bring it up, it's because it's not the normal everyday citizens who typically show up to community meetings, but I heard specifically from folks in my district um in my community who I typically don't hear from, who had a keen interest in this appointment and in you and in your vision.

And so I'm more curious as to those folks who um are interested in this particular issue and have not necessarily been engaged in what's happening with the city overall.

Correct, and and what I was what I was gonna get to is that that's the easy part.

I think the more difficult work when it comes to that is how do we engage those groups of folks who are more in who are more who are more who are less apt to be in those rooms or who have those specific types of thinking, and I was just broadening that out to say that it's going to take more work, right?

And it's going to take a targeted approach.

So outside of the community role meetings is where I was getting to is how do we create these smaller, these smaller groups or reaching out to people.

I think there are a lot of people who have a deep interest in safety who potentially never even been to the police administration building.

I think there are times there are real opportunities to bring those people inside there so they can sit and have the one-on-one inside of the very place that's causing them the the greatest level of concern, is my point.

And sometimes that doesn't look like meeting uh it looks like meeting people who are sometimes very suspicious of the whole app, the safety apparatus, and I think it's important to to make sure that we make that a welcoming place and make that somewhere where they know that they're safe to to come in and express their feelings but I think that's important.

Thank you.

Um Director Gardner can you also talk about your your philosophy when it comes to safety how do you define safety and like what's your plan to execute on your philosophy?

Yes you councilwoman my philosophy on safety is a holistic approach to safety I don't see safety when I look at it as just being the enforcement arm.

Safety is also heavy on the prevention side with how do we disrupt those those paths that lead to the detention piece in the other part.

So I see safety heavy on the prevention and then when I do see enforcement I see that being respectful and enforcement that leads with humanity much of the direction that Sheriff Diggins has taken.

But my definition of safety is actually preventing situations that cause folks to get in those pipelines all together and how do we show up and show them that there's another way to to enter this from a director safety position I don't see the department of safety only as that arm for enforcement I think it's also important for that director to focus on 911 to take a look at what can we do from a technology and call path and perspective that shorten those call times that's also important and then how do we make sure our CAD systems are all on par so that they're able to uh contact and have connection with each other without any any type of interruption how do we reduce the amount of time the amount of employees that are out um on FMLA or have to leave for extended period of times then we start hitting a downward trend uh for employees that are able to take calls because that also impacts safety so I take a a a 30 thousand foot view of how all of this stuff plays together in the ecosystems to solve for those problems.

Yes ma'am thank you thank you councilwoman sure I wanted to chat just a bit about um something that councilwoman L V just brought up regarding the Civil Service Commission and your thoughts around the commission and if you've had other models around the country that you've studied or you looked into the civil service commission and you have ideas and which there might be opportunities for improvement when it comes to transparency and efficiency and folks feeling as though their opinions and time is being used in the right way when it comes to the civic Civil Service Commission and kind of how you're taking an inventory of that commission overall.

Yes thank you councilwoman yes I have a lot of thoughts around that um I will I will say that um that Director Perez I think is has done a good job she's been here trying to take a look at this the systems that we have and and improve and to take the sometimes the inherent bias that existed in a lot of these systems out to create and open more opportunities.

One in particular I won't mention now but it it it takes a look at how candidates are informed of the process whether they made um where they were accepted or not accepted and actually takes time to work with those candidates and fix those issues so they're recycled back into the program and we don't have a lot of drop off there.

There are other models in terms of how we approached different and diverse communities as we take a look at still trying to get our police department, even if we go based on the Hogue decree back to that full 9% as we take a look at that and and um even diversion of of financing some models from uh that particular model into community organizations that work very closely with it.

So I think there are opportunities there.

I also think there's opportunities for better communication.

I think a lot of times in in operations, communication can be very difficult to follow, and it makes us feel like we're chasing information to figure out.

So I think some type of regular reporting or some something to that effect, I think there are a lot of changes that could be made could be made there.

I can't see the timer.

Oh, there it is.

Okay, so um this might be my final question.

This is just around this ideology and these conversations around defund the police.

And I heard you mention like SEPTED and the gang reduction programs through grid and things of that nature.

And I used to do a lot of work with those folks.

And um, one of the things that I know is that in order to be able to decrease some of the violence that is happening in our communities, that we have to invest our dollars differently.

And I find that when we have proposals on the table to invest those dollars differently.

They're often categorized and conveyed and characterized as defunding the police.

And so I'm curious as to what your approach is going to be, particularly as a black man.

I'm speaking as a black woman, doesn't matter how many times I tell people that I'm supportive of law enforcement or what that looks like any time I propose something in terms of addressing the root causes, it's always coming off as defund the police.

And so I'm curious as to how you how you intend to approach that from a budgetary um standpoint, but also from this like philosophy of um eating money to be moved around is instantly a defunding of the police, even if you can see um in plain sight that the budget for the police is increasing.

Yes, no, thank you, Councilwoman Lewis.

And I I definitely understand what you're saying.

Um I will say this, there are two things to that, and the first part is how do we get to a place where we're actually able to have the allocation of funds to more prevention and more of the public health perspective.

That drives my philosophy behind data, information gathering and forecasting, um, which is why I think that's important.

If we look to the request, like I mentioned earlier, the request to move funding from one aspect to the next, I think what there's a real opportunity to do is those questions were actually great questions, and we need to approach it from the perspective is how do we tell a better story?

It could tell us two things.

It could tell us, hey, it'll inform whether or not we are over-indexing in one area and under-indexing in the next.

But I think all too often we're chasing the question versus getting ahead of the question, saying, you know what, there's real opportunity to do what's being asked.

And I think that's only going to be done if we there again take a holistic approach to safety and understand that enforcement is not the only arm of safety, but prevention is also an uh equally effective um arm of safety.

Um, so that is my approach, is more on the scientific end, more on the budgetary end to try and help tell that story.

My philosophy behind it, it's probably less, probably no daylight in between it uh between you and I.

And are you okay?

I'm sorry.

I feel bad.

I know you can still see me.

Yeah, I feel bad I'm still talking, and you look like you okay.

Uh my philosophy behind that, councilwoman, is is far as less daylight there in terms of how I believe safety can actually um affect and impact um this interruption.

Um working really closely with violence interruption and figuring out how we can fix these problems upstream is how I view it.

I don't view it as defunding.

I view it as I've always viewed it from a resource allocation perspective, right?

Now I don't want to reallocate resources to the to the point where we don't have effective enforcement.

At the same time, and I'm thinking much like you, I want to make sure that we're even-handed here.

We're not just pouring all into one side and not enough in the other.

And that is my philosophy behind it.

Um, I want to ensure that we have a strong police force, that we have an adequate police or force because we know danger happens, crime is going to happen, and we have to have them, and that's important.

I think also what's important, and I think what I hear you saying in the way that I feel is that we also need to focus on keeping people out of this pipeline all together, and we're not going to do that with uh hopes and prayers, but we're also gonna need finances, and from uh EDOS perspective, director of safety perspective, I see that opportunity to to look at data information, bring it to this body, and then go through it myself so that we're able to say, okay, we can do X.

Great.

Thank you for that.

With that, I'll let you know.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Thank you, Councilwoman Lewis.

Council President, uh, curious from your perspective, you had any final questions or comments, and then I can close out.

Um I thank you for all of the conversations, and thank you, colleagues, for all your um good insight.

One of the things that I think, in just my experience of having been in the city since 2013, 2012, um, 13 years now, is there's this ebb and flow of trust between our police department and community.

And um I think we have a chief who um is born and raised in Denver, um, has lived in Denver his whole life, similar to me, and we have very similar values.

But with that, how do you what is your how do you build leadership in a paramilitary structure?

Because when I worked for the fire department, um you take tests, right?

And they take a test, and then the people who pass the test, they get the promotion.

That doesn't always lead to higher EQ and higher um the ability to go into a neighborhood and be able to um address the needs of a neighborhood.

I remember when I was um at the Latino Leadership Institute, we learned a lot about what it meant for a leader to be uh a strong leader, and we did a lot of um EQ evaluation and building that, and then what is implicit bias, and how do we identify it and how do you um work towards it and how do you even with the fire department, even I bet the not I bet mostly the fire department, we still have fire stations that don't even have women's bathrooms.

I remember the first time when I went into fire station 17, um, they barely got a women's bathroom, I think within the past four years.

There's a couple other bathroom stations that don't even have women's bathrooms, right?

That's right.

Um, and even when we're looking at the charter of with the Department of Safety, it's him for the manager, um, so it's already implicit that it would be a man.

Um, so just wondering how with all of these factors that you have and all of the resources that you've done leadership opportunities that you have, how do you build that in these structures that you oversee with these three departments that are based on a paramilitary structure that you take a test?

And the last time I checked those tests do not have EQ factored into them.

How do you build on that?

Because they you should become a commander, but you take a test to become a commander, you take a test to become a lieutenant, you take a test to become an assistant chief.

Which is a lot of the times in those positions, you have more interactions with people.

Um, how do you how what's your strategy to do that?

Yeah, that is a very difficult question, but a good one.

I'll answer it like this, Council President.

We talk about, I think the your question too is heavily on culture.

And when I hear that question, I hear, how do we change culture, right?

And that's perhaps probably one of the most difficult things to change in any organization, right?

That's always been the hardest.

Working with people, and I've come into situations.

I said this my first week here at the city on the job.

I told my I said, wow, this is a this is a low trust environment.

I mean, low trust to the point where I don't know if you even trust it.

If I tell you you can leave it for you would trust me.

With you looking at the clock, which to me was sad to be honest with you, because part of me understands it, but the and I'm gonna answer your question, but part of me understands it, part of me doesn't, and I'm bothered by that deeply.

I'm bothered that we are heads of the city, we run the city, but there's zero trust, and that didn't just start today, it's been the case.

Trying to rebuild it to the point that if I tell you that I'm against something, I'm against it, but I'm telling you why.

If I say I'm for it, I'm telling you why I'm for it.

And if I'm telling you that we need to change the way that we view whether or not they're we have women's facilities in these places, it's a no-brainer.

Why don't we have it?

If you're in leadership and you don't understand that, then you shouldn't be in leadership.

It's as simple as that.

I think the culture of trust needs to be rebooted from a leadership perspective, and we need to show up.

Not just show up to work, but we need to show up for the people that we're here to serve.

In general services, when I was there, also something else I said, and I said this when I got to department of safety.

This belongs to the people, and I think that's my focus really, Council President, is changing culture, but by doing that fearlessly and really challenging our leadership in these departments to say not only is it a grade on a paper, but maybe there are other things that we need to do to try and ascertain this individual's ability to reach out to a broader coalition.

But I think it's a culture thing, and I believe it starts with me.

Thank you.

So one other thing that I thought of um your predecessor one time made a decision to cut mental health, the funding for mental health safety, because there were um per from what I understood um perpetual users of the um funding.

And um, when I thought about that, I was like, I bet there's perpetual users of a lot of things in the city.

Um, and that's not necessarily a reason to cut the funding, but I under, but be that as it may.

I think every single person around this table got emails from um our the residents of Denver, and I was just so disappointed that city council didn't get a call, didn't get a heads up, didn't get like a hey, we're having to make this really hard decision.

Um just want to give you a uh a heads up as the body that approves all of the um contract not the contracts but the um the collective bargaining agreements that govern these these individuals, it felt like an afterthought, like I'm and I think what I think a lot of us have been feeling lately is that city council feels like an afterthought, and I would just ask that we don't do that, that we partner together and we be more proactive in our approach.

Um when you come from a place of having to be reactive, it comes from a deficit standpoint, and it's really hard to build trust that way, and so instead saying, hey, as the body that approves these contracts, as the body that approves the collective bargaining agreements, this is not been however you want to do it, but really having that collaboration with us because we're the ones who meet with our commanders, we're the ones who when time comes and there's an incident.

I show up in my community, I really do.

I meet with my commander, I have coffee with them, I meet at my I go to my fire departments.

I we have interactions every Monday with the sheriff's department, and I hear things from them, and it just I it I want to be able to have that opportunity to tell you as the executive director, and also have you be able to tell us with what you're dealing with, so that we're not hearing it um from the our constituents in a news story.

It just it does it it's hurtful and it does not build trust.

So I would just ask that as you move forward.

Um, and communication's a two-way street.

That's right.

If I expect that from you, you should expect that from every single person sitting around this table as well.

Um so we can't just hold you to a one standard and not hold us to another.

I don't operate that way.

I have one word, I give you my word, I really will do my best to honor it and and um make sure that I'm reaching out to you if something else happens.

Absolutely.

Thank you, Council President.

Director, thank you.

We have to vote.

This is a voting item as well.

So if you have a succinct response to council president's uh statement and comment, um, that is great.

Um, as I say, I'm an honor that what she said with with taking this information back.

I don't think it's about a response as much as about listening and making sure I understand uh what's important to her.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

And thank you, Council President.

Councilwoman Vidras, um, if you have a uh, one short one short question, which is just um with the lack of education experience in the Department of City, who would you go to for advice and scholars that are doing research in this field?

Thank you.

Um I'm fortunate in that area um in that from a scholar perspective.

Um well, we'll call her name.

Uh I have a quite a few friends who are uh one particular is a uh professor at MSU and a couple of them at DU in terms of from academic perspective.

I will say from an operational perspective.

Therefore, I'm I'm really fortunate still to have a lot of folks that are close to me that have done this job, whether it be uh Murphy or or Mondo or Stephanie or or I have my fauna friend list is pretty deep when it comes to having questions, like hey, how does this look, or what is this?

Um I've been fortunate to be mentored by uh a lot of these people.

Um the ability even to reach out folks who are retired.

Uh Al the Caves is one that Al mentioned talked to him a couple days ago.

So my ability to reach out and to get up to speed to things that I may not be up to, it's it's it's it's very broad and it's deep, and I talk to these people a lot.

Um, I trust their judgment.

So from an academic side, um, when it takes when I talk about a safety roadmap, I'm actually leaning on this individual to kind of help me through that.

I'm purposely going outside of the department to create the roadmap because there's an inherent bias and protection mechanism that comes along when you're talking about roadmaps because when you talk about road mapping, you're talking about getting off the path, and there's an inherent um reaction.

Whether there may not be anything nefarious behind it, but people can become very protective of processes, and so I'm leaning on on these folks locally, uh academicians, to help me create this roadmap.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for.

Thank you, Councilwoman.

Thank you, Councilmember Albidras.

And uh Director, um I acting Director Gardner.

Uh I'll add to what Council President Sandwall stated.

I think it's essential for the person in this role to demonstrate through actions the respect of the council of our input on all of these items.

Um selectively making decisions without full input of Denver City Council is not a collaborative process and actually long term will not be successful for Department of Safety.

My quick comment, then I'll have you do one close out.

We do have enough time for the motion for this to go through.

Um I do appreciate, sir, your background, and I agree that having a civilian in this position at this time I think is essential.

I think it is important to have someone that has an end-to-end view for business continuity, someone that understands technology because technology will be a part of this role and the decisionings that we're going to be making in voting on contracts coming forward this year and next year, and how technology impacts humans and civil liberties, as well as how technology allows us to actually move uh forward with um uh capacity management as well as being really direct in how we leverage um individuals in uh police situations and how we um uh deliver with community um leading alternative responses.

All of that is necessary.

Thank your background informed that.

I appreciate your willingness to come to community and and sit in um uh defined district nine and five points and and answer a question or room full of about a hundred folks who weren't pulling any punches, and I appreciate you sitting and being direct and answering each of those questions at that time.

And so with that, sir, um, any final comments um in the next two minutes, and then we'll call the question.

Sure, thank you.

Um, to this body, first of all, uh council president, um uh chairman uh watson, thank you.

I appreciate the questions uh and the candor.

I'll I'll close with this.

Yes, my background is is heavy in business, and um those are my degrees business and VA, that's my focus.

Um, but I will say um that the reason why I believe I've been successful in my career, thankfully, and chose to make the decision to leave private and come here is because my heart is here.

Um there's no other reason that I'm here today, other than being there.

My heart is actually with the city, and I've learned tons uh from being on these different parts of the city that informed where I am now, and I think that's very important to take back.

Lastly, um, as I look back at the different roles that I've had, I'll say that I was asked to join the Board of Health some time ago.

My question to that individual that asked me for the state is like I'm not a doctor, nowhere near it.

And I say, sir, thank you for that.

But he's like, Al, it's not why I'm asking you to do it, is because um you have good judgment.

I trust your judgment, and I trust that you'll be honest with me.

And this role I approached the same way.

No, I'm not a doctor, but I'm able to approach situations honestly.

Um I'm able to give people honest feedback, and I'm able to see around the curve sometimes.

So thank you for listening.

Uh thank you, um acting director.

Um, Councilmember Sawyer.

Motion to approve.

Second.

It's been moved and seconded.

And I'm looking at the chat, Councilmember Parity, it's the item was called off of consent.

Um it's been moved and seconded.

And so I apologize, I just saw your your point.

We have to move to um a vote, and I'm not sure if if your statement is to ask for a um not a thumbs up, which is the normal process.

Um, please please state that.

Um, yeah, so the the regular process is for by acclamation by thumbs up not to go around the table.

Um I'll start first um uh virtually, thumbs up to move this to the floor to advance this.

Are we doing a roll call?

We're not doing a roll call.

Okay.

Thumbs up.

I just want to make sure if we're seeing anything else but thumbs up.

Seeing none, um, we have uh this item will be moved to the floor.

Thank you, acting director.

Thank you, council members, for your questions.

Thank you, sir, for answering the questions.

Um, I'm calling off two five one eight one oh uh of today's consent uh agenda.

This item will be scheduled for action next week.

The other six items will pass on consent, as they have not been called out.

So, with that, this meeting is adjourned.

Thanks, everyone.

Thank you.