The price of freedom.

It's easy when you're out there in the field doing your field work to get engrossed in the minutiae the details of mapping the artifacts in place, measuring the WCAP poles, getting all this data because these things are going away so rapidly.

But then every once in a while there's some little little thing that brings us back to the fact that we're out there.

What this is really about is the people, the people who live there.

I know on this one site, the youth hunters camp we called it, because they were one of the main activities in the site was making red bullets, smelting the lead over the campfire, and we carefully mapped where all these little bullet primers were that they popped out of the bullet casings, and you could see where the individual knocking these primers out had been kneeling.

The bullets were arranged in two arcs where his knees had been.

We've gotten to the point now where we can walk on to one of these wiki up sites and start finding seed beads.

We can tell from the size of these beads.

This is pre-1860s.

This is 1850s, or this is post-1880s, 1890s.

They were demanding and requesting smaller and smaller and smaller beads because they can make more and more intricate embroidery with these beads.

And these beads were made in primarily in Venice, Italy, and in Bohemia or in Europe, and shipped over the ocean by the hundreds of pounds, billions.

Literally billions of these little beads were shipped over to the East Coast, brought out west on some trader's mule, and traded to the Indians by the billions, where they were sewn onto their clothing, their moccasins, their gun scabbards, horse blankets, etc.

And when a thread breaks, dozens of these little things will fall out onto the ground, and many, many of them were left behind.

But it brings it back to the fact there were people here, not just artifacts.

Yeah, we're here.

The people who've lived the life should be revered as the almighty authority.

During the early period, we were required to collect artifacts, and the youth were kind of against that idea.

The invasive archaeological digs was one of the things that we felt was invading the resting places of those who have passed on.

Science is all about the collection of data, not actually the collection of artifacts.

However, the past has been very good.

That record, that collected record from thousands of sites, literally thousands of sites have been recorded in Western Colorado.

Tens of thousands.

Join us for the Finance and Business Committee starting now.

What's up, Cashman?

All right.

All right.

Um good morning, everyone.

Welcome to the Finance and Business Committee.

My name is Satana Gonzalez Cuchez, and I'm one of your council members at large and honored to chair this committee.

Um we're gonna get going pretty quickly here.

We have uh some action items uh and I'm gonna start with introductions of council members and then we'll move on to our action items presentations, and we have public comment and all of the things.

So I'll start over here to my right.

The distinguished gentleman to your right.

Sure, why not?

Chris Heinz.

Uh, Denver's Perfect Tech.

Good morning, Stacey Gilmore, District 11.

Uh good morning, Darrell Watson, fine, district nine.

Good morning, Paul Cashman, South Denver, District 6.

Great.

Um, I believe these uh we have the action items that are up.

They are in a block coming to us from the formerly known as X-Sen License to the new uh Department of Licensing and Consumer Protection.

I have to, I'll get these.

So I'm really sorry.

And then following that, we will have a briefing from General Services.

And we do have some items on consent.

So with that said, I'll turn it over to our friends from our new meeting names division or department and have you take it away.

So council members remember after the presentation, we will go into 15 minutes of public comment, followed by questions from council members.

So thank you to the Commission Watson, I'm so sorry.

Yes, of course.

No, no, no, no.

It's it's I am solid, I'm excited.

Thank you, uh, committee chair for um hosting uh this discussion.

First, I I want to acknowledge and uh thank the folks who work so hard behind the scenes on this uh common consumption area.

This has been many years in the making, and I um every time I I collaborate with the Department of Licensing and Consumer Protection, it's always a pleasure.

So thank you, Erica and team, for all the good work that you've done.

I want to thank um Allie Freedom.

I'm sorry, real quick.

I'm really sorry to um interrupt you, but I forgot that Councilwoman Lewis, I believe, is online, and I want to make sure we I knew that ahead of time, and I apologize.

And yeah, I'll get you.

Councilwoman Lewis, do you want to introduce yourself?

Sure, Councilwoman Chantal Lewis, district eight.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Council for Tem uh Romara Campbell for also joining us.

Sorry about that.

Thank you, Councilman White.

No problem at all.

I want to thank Ali Friedan, uh the uh special project manager for Westfield and primary leader of the North Wincoop entertainment district.

I want to thank uh Stuart Jensen um with uh Peach Crease Club for joining the common consumption area.

If you're curious as to where these places are at and what they are, they'll share a little bit about that in the public comments uh space uh piece and um for making your voice heard and participating in this process.

Uh thank you to the brilliant staff at the Department of Licensing and Consumer Protection, Erica Rogers, Kelly Abrams Rivers, Abby Soyson, and uh today's Denver is taking a uh responsible step to activate a public space that neighbors already use near uh mission ball.

This proposed proposal focuses on safety first, it robustly establishes clear rules, strong oversight, and a secure space for adults to gather.

The goal is to support local businesses in a secure and responsible environment at a time when we are looking for many, many opportunities to support our local businesses.

And with that, I'll turn it over to our deputy executive director, Erica Rogers, for the remainder of the presentation.

All right, thank you, Councilman.

I'll start just briefly with a history of the program and overview.

Some of you may have been here when we adopted the program, some may not.

Um so for those following along at home, I'll also share this type of license was created uh by the state legislature in 2011 uh to create a tool for placemaking and gathering among different liquor licensed establishments.

So as those different jurisdictions opted into this program between the years of 2013 and 2017, uh Denver sort of explored the concept and monitored what was happening to see how it would work in other jurisdictions.

We really dug into our research and outreach phase in 2018, and by the end of 2019, City Council had passed a bill establishing this program as a five-year pilot program, with the effective date in 2021, uh June 1st, 2021, after the rulemaking had been completed.

Some of you might remember we had a little bit going on in 2020.

So some other cities that have opted into this common consumption model.

Um there's about 15 statewide.

Here are just some examples of our neighbors that have these types of licenses.

What I will say is many of these have one area of their town where they do this.

They have one common consumption area license, and they use it for um placemaking, they use it for events, they use it for a way to bring the community together, um, sometimes on a permanent basis, sometimes on an event basis.

One of the most notable examples nearby is the Stanley Marketplace in Aurora.

That is an indoor common consumption area where all of the participating businesses, their patrons can take those drinks into the common space.

So before we get a little, before we get too much further, I want to do a little just overview on some of the terminology in the state bill.

I think, unless you're in the weeds of licensing and consumer protection, they might all sound interchangeable, but they are not.

So for the good of the order, a common consumption area is a license type that our department can issue, and that license allows patrons who are over the age of 21 to drink alcohol purchased from existing liquor licensed establishments in a common space.

So outside of those existing brick and mortar liquor licensed establishments in a space that they all share.

Now, the unique thing about this license type, unlike other liquor licenses or on their unlike other licenses that we issue is that the CCA license, the common consumption area license, has to be issued within what's called an entertainment district.

And so this is a layer that the state law requires to ensure that these licenses are only issued in areas that are already pretty densely populated with liquor licenses or are specifically going to be used for entertainment.

This is not a tool that they created for use in neighborhoods or sleepy parts of town.

This is really for the high energy entertainment driven liquor licensed dense areas of each jurisdiction that opts in.

So what exactly is an entertainment district?

Great question.

That is an area of the city no larger than 100 acres per state law, and within that 100 acres or less has to have at least 20,000 square feet of total liquor licensed premises.

That's the way they measure is this a good area for these licenses.

Not everyone in the entertainment district has to participate.

It just makes them eligible to apply for a license with us for common consumption.

The reason we're here today is because each entertainment district has to be approved by city council per state law.

One last term that I'll go over is promotional association, and this is the applicant for the license.

And so this is the group of liquor licensed businesses, at least two that join together as the applicant to get this common consumption area license that is shared among them.

There are certain requirements in state law for joint liability of those of that license premise.

They have to meet certain requirements to be approved as a promotional association, and our office does all of that quality control check and review of that application.

So the promotional associations by state law must be certified by, oops, I put EXL, but that is DLCP, before they get that license.

So as part of the license application, the promotional association gives our department information about their organization as a whole, their board of directors, their liability insurance.

It also gives us information about the area that we want to license for common consumption where there's patrons can gather.

And then they give us entertainment or information about the entertainment district, the larger area, and why it qualifies as a space where they can have that license.

Here's a little bit about the licensure process as well.

So again, they start with that application.

It has information about each of those three things.

Our agency will do a quality control check, but we also loop in as necessary other partner agencies, which could include any number of our partner agencies depending on the model.

So anywhere from Office of Special Events to DOTI to DPD to FIRE, any of our agencies that are implicated by the license, will have a chance to review it.

Every license type for a common consumption area has to undergo a public hearing for needs and desires.

This is required, and this applicant that we'll be talking about today has already gone through all of these steps.

So this dark blue step is where we are today in the process at the City Council vote on a resolution that would create the entertainment district because we don't already have one that would need to be created.

And then the applicant would finish any inspections or reviews, or you know, tie any tie up any loose ends with any of the reviewing agencies, and then our department would issue that license only after that entertainment district is created and all inspections are passed.

So with that, I'll talk about our main resolution that we're here to talk about today, and that's creation of the North Wing Coop Entertainment District.

This would be our very first one since the program has been adopted.

So we're excited to bring that today.

Some application specifics about this applicant are here in this timeline.

So this applicant had done a ton of work before coming to us.

We've been talking to interested folks for years about the possibility of creating an entertainment district in different areas of the city for various reasons, right?

We had COVID, we had other placemaking tools that came online as a result of COVID.

The state statute is pretty intense in what it requires of an applicant, and so for all these reasons, right?

Some other potential applicants chose not to pursue this route.

But the North Wing Coop Promotional Association did decide to pursue this, and so they submitted their application back in August to us.

This included evidence of community support that they had to gain before they even applied.

On September 3rd, our department sent notice of the application around to all of the parties required by the RO ordinance, all of the parties that get normal notification about our hearing process, and posted a sign at the premises, right, indicating that there would be a public hearing with instructions on how to participate.

We held that public hearing on October 7th, and there was no opposition present, only support for the application.

On the 16th of October, the hearing officer who overheard that hearing recommended approval, our department received no further objections during that objection period.

And so on October 31st, our department issued a final decision that contained conditional approval, right?

Of course, pending any inspections, final review sign-offs, and then of course creation of the entertainment district by city council.

So here we are today, right again, we're at the approval process for creation of that entertain entertainment district.

And for some history, right, we wanted to do all of this before we came here because we wanted to provide city council with a full picture of an applicant that was ready to comply.

And so the choice wouldn't involve a ton of questions about what would this look like in the future.

What might they do?

What might they not do?

All of the details are available, and our partners and the applicants here are today available to talk about it.

For a visual, this is a high-level view of the site map, so you can see where in the city this would be located.

So to the north, you have I-70, and to kind of the south end, you have the RTD 38th and Blake station.

And so we'll zoom in a little bit closer so you can see what all is involved here.

So going back to those three terms I talked about, the yellow area here is the proposed entertainment district.

So this is the area in which we could potentially issue common consumption area licenses at this site.

Currently, the blue areas that light blue are surface parking, but the license itself that has been applied for is down here in the lower right section with the red outline, and there are three participating businesses that would attach to this common consumption area.

Those are the Chubby Unicorn, the Peach Grease Club, and Left Hand Brewing.

And so customers at any of those three locations could take their cup with their drink into the plaza area that's included and have that drink as you know mingling with each other no matter where they purchased it.

A couple of things to note are that mission ballroom is not attaching to the common consumption area, it's not participating, so you would not be able to bring those drinks into the mission with you any further.

You would have to finish them in the plaza.

Is also not allowing their patrons to bring their drinks out.

So I think that is a distinguishing factor.

But the mission ballroom is right, one of the areas that was included in that liquor license square footage.

So this shows a good example of you know showing that the area is an entertainment heavy location without that exact part, exact licensee participating in the common consumption area.

I know there's also additional plans by the applicant to have future development in the site and around in the entertainment district.

So if you have questions about that, I defer to the applicant themselves.

But this is exactly the kind of application that we had anticipated when we created the program back in 2019-2020.

So the resolution that will come just as a summary, it would create the entertainment district, which is supported by the neighborhood.

Our department cannot issue the Common Consumption Area license until that entertainment district is created by City Council.

And of importance, I think also to note is that creation of this entertainment district does not change any other zoning noise or other codes that are already in effect in this area.

It simply allows our department to issue the license.

There are no other privileges that other locations within the district are available to have.

So the second item we're here to talk about today is an action item because it's a bill, and this would repeal a section of the common consumption area code that is in effect and has been in effect since it was enacted and uh in end of 19 when the bill passed.

And it's just a sunset date.

So when this program was created, it was created as a pilot program that would last five years from the date of uh of the start date, right?

So from June 1st, 2021 for five years, which is coming up next year.

And so it is set to sunset if we do nothing.

But one thing to note as you're considering this is that we have zero entertainment districts.

This would be our very first entertainment district, it would be our very first common consumption area license.

And so that's important because when the program was created, there was uncertainty around whether this would create a slew of applications or a slew of interest, and people were worried about keeping it you know on a time limit because they weren't sure how many people would be interested.

And what we've seen is that some of those factors I named for many reasons, right?

We haven't seen high interest in this.

It is very difficult to get, it is very difficult to qualify for, and there's a high bar that you have to go through as an applicant to be able to get this license.

So we are recommending that the sunset date be repealed so that we can keep this tool for placemaking for activation.

We can give this applicant the confidence that they can continue to operate past the time that their license expires, simply because the program would sunset.

Just a couple of other things to note as you're considering the repeal that all state and local requirements aside from the sunset would remain in place.

So all of the plans I talked about, all of the collaboration, the public hearing, everything that I've mentioned here today that this applicant has done for their application would remain in place at both the state and local level.

If the applicant wanted to make additional changes to that common consumption area, so to that red line that I pointed out, or if we wanted to uh if an applicant wanted to uh submit a new application, those would also need additional review and approval by our department, they wouldn't just automatically be issued because the entertainment district is created.

It simply allows them to apply in an existing entertainment district.

And like I said, the main point is that removal of the sunset date for the program gives potential new applicants and specifically this applicant more certainty to pursue this as a placemaking and activation tool, and just keeping it as one of many tools in our toolkit for businesses in Denver to create vibrant spaces.

So the next steps.

If this were to continue, right, we are here at Finance and Business Committee today.

The bill and resolution, I think we would like to go together at City Council for a first reading and a second reading for those following along at home, and then only upon signage of those uh of the resolution and again completion of all inspections and reviews, would our department be able to issue that license.

So that's how that would work.

And we'll open it up for any final comments by the councilman and of course questions.

I think since we have the public hearing, I'll save my comments for afterward.

Thank you so much, Erica.

Great.

Well, thank you both very much.

We will move into our 15 minutes of public comment on this matter.

All speakers will have two minutes, and she begin the remarks by telling council their names and who they're representing.

If you have signed up to answer uh questions only, state your name and note that you are available for questions for council.

Um please uh speakers must stay on topic at hand, must direct their comments to the committee as a whole.

Please refrain from profane or obscene speech and refrain from individual personal attacks.

So we have, I believe I see we have two people signed up.

Um but of course we'll open it up if there are others that maybe showed up and decided hey, I really want to I have something I want to say.

Um so we'll go ahead and go to that.

Let me just grab my list here.

Okay, um, all right.

First up, um, I have in person Alison Frieden for Dean.

Please um go ahead and make your way up to the microphone and introduce yourself, and you will have two minutes.

I think we will have it up on the screen, the timer.

So, can you hear me?

Yes, okay.

Thank you.

Um, first of all, it's really exciting to be here um after all this time.

So thank you for having us.

Um I have to say that this program really is about the flexibility and opportunity to have the choice, and it's not so much about the alcohol itself.

Um, we've noticed out at Stanley Marketplace, it's one of our assets with Westfield as well.

Um, this is something that over seven plus years has proven to be a true community builder, and something that we have seen be a um multi-generational um activator when you see um something like grandma wants a lemonade, dad might want a beer, and the toddlers want to do chalk art, and it's something that that plaza right now is an underutilized space.

Um, and so something that we have seen out at Stanley and think, gosh, there's an opportunity at North Wind Coop for that same model, right?

And so um the entertainment district with that square footage of mission and um the uh the plaza outside with our wonderful operators and now having Peach Crease open.

It is the wonderful blend of um now an opportunity for on non-show days where we do have a hundred and seventy-two plus shows a year, where um again we have ample security and police coverage on those nights, but where it's maybe those non-show days where we want to activate that plaza, bring people together, where it's music or it's chalk art.

Um, we are in the Rhino Arts District, right?

And so it's about um bringing people together, utilizing an underutilized place, and so it's about that ability and flexibility to give people a choice and flexibility in how they might consume.

And so that's something that um I just wanted to note in how we look at this program.

Um, engaging with the rhino bid, legit.

Thank you so much for your time.

I was too.

The timer was up too.

Thank you all, appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

All right, and then uh next up.

Excuse me, madam chair.

Can we ask what business the speaker is representing?

Oh, yeah, of course.

If you don't mind coming up, because so that people online can hear.

Thank you.

I just didn't catch who you're representing.

I apologize.

Westfield company and um Stanley Marketplace is one of our assets as well that we manage.

So that's the clarification on that.

So do you only Councilmember Cashman?

We'll do questions in a moment, and you can ask her questions.

Thank you very much.

I thought I'd try to sneak in.

I gotta keep us on track.

No, no, good.

I'm proud of it.

That's a test.

Okay.

Uh next we have Stuart Jensen, who's also here in person, I believe.

Yeah.

Okay.

We have two minutes, and the timer will be up on the screen.

I'll keep an eye.

And Stuart.

Thanks for introducing your business.

Hi, uh, my name's Stuart.

Uh, my wife and I just opened a cocktail and wine bar called the Pete's Grease Club, uh, right next to Mission Ballroom there.

Um I guess I would just like to um, you know, continue what Allie was saying.

We obviously uh I could talk to you for hours about the challenges of operating a bar and a restaurant in uh Denver right now.

Um, it's very, very difficult.

So to us, like having a little bit of uh increased revenue available to us is huge.

Like that was a very compelling uh opportunity for us when we were looking at signing a lease with Westfield.

Um but to my wife and I, the the bigger thing here is we want the ability to to build community where we are, you know.

Um and I have a unique perspective on this also because I'm a partner at a bar in the Edgewater market where we have a common consumption license.

So we've seen firsthand how that has become a hub for that community.

Um frequently it's hard for people to find a place where they can have, you know, a birthday party where all of their friends can gather, their family can come and meet up with them.

It can be loose and it can be casual, and you don't have to pay a huge sum for a uh private room or something, and all of these people can come and gather and get things from different businesses that appeal to them.

You can host special events for the community, holiday markets, farmers markets, you know.

Um I think that all of you are probably aware that the Brighton Corridor has seen a lot of development, but maybe less uh progress than some people might have anticipated, you know, five, ten years ago.

So I think that uh being able to activate this community space for people while supporting the businesses that have invested heavily in that area is uh a huge opportunity, not just for us as the business owners, but for that entire um, you know, stretch of uh of the Brighton Corridor.

Um and it also I think contributes to people uh consuming alcohol and and enjoying entertainment in a more responsible way rather than you know um sort of uh an unregulated uh just open space that is not used.

Um so uh but yeah, happy to answer any questions um afterwards.

I'm available.

Great.

Thank you so much, Stuart.

Uh all right, final call.

If there's anyone else that wishes to provide public comment on this matter, okay.

Seeing none, we can go into questions now.

And luckily, sir, you are the first in the queue.

Um, other members if there are if you'd like to get in the queue, please let me know.

I'll buckle right up.

Um, thanks for presentation.

Really interesting.

Um, so why uh with a pilot situation was the ordinance written up to a hundred acres, and how large is the site we're considering here?

Great questions.

Uh the hundred acres is a state law requirement.

That's not local.

Um so that's for any entertainment district in the state.

Is that's the max size?

I'm not uh certain off the top of my head of the exact acreage of our site, but I'm sure Allie could answer that.

Would you like to come up to the mic, Allie?

The site is about 13 or so acres.

I can get the exact, but 13 acres or so is the general.

So that's that's that entire web.

Slide 10.

The entertainment district is about 13 or so acres, yes.

Okay, and what does Westfield like?

Um, so uh most of the 13 acres we own, but a couple of them we do not, and I'd be happy to point out which parcels we don't.

And by the way, I'm also with Northwood Coop Entertainment District and the Association.

Can we call out that slide, Ken?

Can you pull up the slide deck again?

Which slide is it cash?

I think it's 10.

Yeah, we have it up already.

Well, uh, yeah, thank you.

So, yeah, can you?

Of course.

Um, so where the top right in light sort of a mint green color is, we no longer own that parcel.

Um that is a residential building now.

Um that is a group called Heinz.

They now own that.

Um, right next door to that.

Uh left is surface parking.

Um that is no longer ours either.

That is slated to be hopefully fingers crossed hotel one day.

Um, and so I think there's uh STP out there site development plan in the works, but um nothing uh has broken ground quite yet.

And everything else is still uh Westfields, and then mission and of course the uh common consumption area shown is all of ours as well.

So is the common consumption area all outdoors, indoors combination?

Great question.

Um, so similar to Stanley Marketplace, it's showing um the plaza, which is outdoors, and then it is also showing the building indoors, and the reason why is the first floor right now is other than the restaurants, it hasn't been built out.

It is um unbuilt space uh right now.

And so the thought is if we wanted to host um an art market or some sort of indoor event that folks could bring the drinks similarly, like they would outdoors to that plaza, like they could indoors while there is no licensed business or business of any kind, or like Stanley Marketplace.

If we build retail shops, that they could also similarly bring drinks into the retail shops like we have out at Stanley.

So common consumption is the subset within the entertainment district.

So do I understand the entertainment district is the entire goldish area, the entire area on the map?

The existing common consumption area is just in the red with the three businesses.

Correct.

Okay.

What type of security is there?

You know, you can't walk out of a restaurant with a drink normally.

What's security, so you can't walk out of a common consumption area.

Great question.

So we have um not only our own security, but we have uh police presence and um security from mission as well.

Um, in addition to that, all cups must be labeled from said businesses so that um we and security police others know where those drinks came from and that they are permitted so that it's not somebody bringing their own drink from their car or a liquor store and that we can differentiate.

Um we also may deem a risk ban necessary if it's a large event, a large event, or if time goes on and we we want that um oversight, we may add that at some point.

It's not something we've had to do in the past.

Um it is also important to note there is no cross, I like to call it cross-contamination, but you cannot take a drink from one establishment into another.

So you have to keep those drinks going into only the drink the establishment you bought it from, um, but you cannot take a drink from Chubby Unicorn into left hand and vice versa.

Um, and the how do they monitor that?

So staff are trained for that, and that is part of um the association in our meetings that we are regularly engaged in trained on our own policies.

And Ali, if I may interject, and there's a pretty specific security um plan.

Um, it's a security and admission control plan that the um the association and everyone that's participating um had to agree to, and that information was communicated out uh to community.

Um so community members had a view of this and whether this was successful.

On top of that, there is a health and sanitation plan and a parking and transportation plan.

So, some very, very specific steps the association asked.

One last question, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much.

Um you looked at other jurisdictions that have done this.

Um, so what is that?

So do the common consumption areas lead to increased DUIs, more fights, you know, anything of that nature.

What have you found?

We haven't uh seen any evidence of that.

In fact, most of them uh as Ali mentioned, are used for uh creating intergenerational spaces, right, where people can come together uh rather than being siloed in separate areas, right?

They can come into that common space and engage in all sorts of activities.

So the state liquor enforcement division also maintains uh some oversight over the entertainment districts, and they monitor for any compliance issues, but they have not been prevalent.

And council member, we can provide any of those that outcome data from the state regulators as far as what they're seeing in some of those sites if that would be of interest.

So if this makes it to the floor, we'll have uh that data pulled and we'll have that provided to council members.

Awesome.

Thank you for your patience, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Councilman Cashman.

Um before we go forward, I do want to um welcome Council President Sandoval for joining us.

Um sorry I didn't do that before.

Um and then next is Councilman Heinz, followed by Councilman Gilmore.

Uh thank you, Committee Chair.

I want to thank you for providing life for um uh for this uh project.

I um right when I was first uh inaugurated, I was I participated in this common conception program, and uh kind of didn't know what was going on.

This is um this is one of those jobs where uh those on the outside can't understand it, those on the inside can't explain it.

That's actually a phrase um I didn't I stole that from Texas AM.

Um they describe the uh the student life as those on the outside can't understand it, those in the inside can't be.

Yes, that's right.

Well, I am I am from Texas, so um anyway, the um uh this is a job that that is really hard to explain, but um, but I did spend a fair amount of time uh on the um on the committee that um that created this, and here we are five you know four years later um coming up on the sunset, which is kind of nuts, and um, and there really hasn't been any, as you say, any uh strong traction, and that was one of the dominant conversations is we thought it was gonna take off, there'd be alcohol and increased fights and crime, as councilman Cashman's hoping for, um, and uh, hardly brother hardly um yes, that's meant to be joked, but uh um but so it's good to see that this actually is coming to fruition because I I was hoping that it would happen in the center city, but um, you know, in the uh Rhino Arts District, it makes a whole lot of sense there as well.

Just one question.

Do you know why mission ballroom?

I mean, the only reason why I bring it up is because you're explicitly saying that they're not part of the program.

Why would they not want to be part of this?

I certainly can't speak for mission ballroom, but I'm sure it has to do with ticketing events and getting folks in safely and not wanting them to be in and out, would be a guess.

That's something we've heard in general.

And and I think um they didn't explicitly say that they do not want to, it just simply wasn't something that fit where their model was at.

Um, and I think having that, I mean, for folks who've been to that space, that empty lot, um, having that utilized in a way that complements when their business is not ongoing.

I think long-term, I think they may see an uptick in folks who are coming over to that space.

Like, what do you have an amphitheater over here as well?

And actually generate so I don't think our business model um they saw uh direct impact as much as the small restaurants um and the empty lot uh spaces felt that this would be a winner for them.

Okay, but I can't speak for them either.

It just so happens that mission ballroom happens to be there, and you can't really show the area without describing the um other establishments nearby.

Okay, correct.

Thank you, committee chair.

Thank you.

Uh Councilman Gilmar.

Um thank you, madam chair.

Uh I have a couple questions about um security in the kind of the entire area because I I know that we're talking about multi-generational gatherings, but um having a kid who's really into EDM and picking up and dropping off at mission ballroom regularly.

Um I would wonder kind of what the safety protocols that are required, and maybe you can educate me on it.

Like if somebody's coming in and out of an area, are they checked that they're not taking their drink out onto the street?

Um, and then um if there's re-entry, that we're training the inner in the entertainment staff, especially around, you know, people might be carrying like Narcan or other things, and that we're just educating them not to throw that away as folks are coming into uh area like this.

Um we've been trying to educate different venues, their security staff, to not throw that away.

But then also, um, I know that there's a group working on um Stephen Brackett is working on it, um, drink testing strips on the cups that are being used.

And as a mom of a 21-year-old, um, there's a lot of fights.

There's a lot of attacks that happen as folks pour out of mission or pour out of the bar scene down there.

I mean, we could check the DPD records pretty easily around assaults, uh, things like that.

And so I just want to understand how we're gonna kind of keep a pulse on, and thank you, Marley.

Um, how we're gonna keep a pulse on kind of what is happening.

Does there need to be better um oversight in certain areas, exit points, etc.?

Just so everybody does get home safely.

Um, and so I know I threw a lot out there, but really, you know, the safety part of it would be really helpful to learn more about.

Marley, were you getting up to answer or were you getting up to leave?

I'm sorry, Marley.

I want to know.

Marley Bardowski with the city attorney's office.

I would defer to Erica first if if she's got a plan, and then I'm happy to step in to address it as well.

Thanks, Marley.

Um, actually, I think um Ali, if you want to come back up, or or Stuart, which whichever one of you, I mean, I think Ali sort of spoke to this, but um they did have to provide our department with a detailed safety and security and can emission control plan and some of the uh measures that Allie mentioned would be included in training, not just for um the three restaurants and bars that are uh attached to the common consumption area, but uh for anyone who is a member of the promotional association, which can also include um like it concludes Westfield development, includes I think the mission barroom is on the board.

Um it also includes any additional um I want to say future uh tenants of the spaces around, so um I'll let Stuart speak to anything beyond that if you'd like, but I they did submit a pretty detailed plan.

And Stuart, before you jump in, I also want to be clear the requirements for mission ballroom, they have some requirements tied to their liquor license and their consumption process, and so this does not subordinate their explicit requirements, even though they're not part, gonna be part of this common consumption, folks coming in and out, and all that they have to do in order to keep their license, um, still remains, and those that oversight from Denver Police from their high security, all of that must be done, and I'll make sure we provide that clarity that separation so that you're aware and other council members are aware of what's already in place for a mission ballroom, and then we'll overlay it with this additional step that mission ballroom has already has approved, which is an additional step for common consumption.

I'm sorry, uh thanks for the opportunity.

I just wanted to say a couple things because your questions really kind of spoke to me.

Um my wife works in a harm reduction, and uh so I just want to let you know that all of our staff has been trained to use Narcan to uh use and provide drug testing strips to guests.

Um, and I would also just say that I think that providing a uh regulated area for people actually decreases uh issues like fights over consumption.

What we're seeing right now, because I'm on site every day, is that outside of this area there are like, you know, little liquor shooters on the ground in the parking lot.

There are, you know, uh I find things in the bathroom, and uh I think that providing people with a space where they can gather and congregate actually leads to them using that space rather than like I need to secretly do these things before I go into this space.

Um but yeah, I just want you to know that our staff, as well as the staff at the other restaurants, we have provided uh harm reduction training floor, and we have Narcan and drug test trips on site.

Is it councilwoman?

Oh, and I I would also like to add, if I may, that um I would be happy to provide sales snapshots of our EDM nights.

They tend to be our lowest liquor sale nights from our operators.

Um, and so if that provides any sort of comfort in terms of liquor sales, they turn they do tend to be um of all the show nights, rock country tend to be higher, but it's Gen Z, you know, the young kids, it tends to be that they are um, maybe they're getting it their hands on it in another way, but um, those do tend to be the shows where our operators either close really early or they just really don't see much of anything.

So if you would like some sort of data backup sales, we'd be more than happy to provide trends or um whatnot that might um show that.

Yeah, I really appreciate the offer um for that.

And um, you know, I think where um there's just other um other events going on down there as well.

Um, and so you know, I I feel assured that you're paying attention to that and everything.

I think the other thing would be um there is a great desire um for places to stay open longer, and so where folks might go to after parties in Thornton and Westminster and other places.

Denver does not have any locations that folks can go into a bar room and have another DJ and have something with no alcohol there and food, etc.

until 6 a.m.

And so that is a huge missed market in Denver because I have to go pick them up at 3 a.m.

and go find them something to eat.

I would rather to leave them there until six.

They can eat a burrito and go pick them up, or they can Uber when it's light out, but those are real mom problems.

Um, and so definitely, but sales tax revenue goes along with all those sales too.

So yeah, thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh uh Council Pro Time Romero Campbell, you're up next.

Yeah, and mine is just real quick.

Um, some of the, and I don't know if it's in the safety protocols or the security protocols, um, but just wondering about like mixed population.

So if you have people leaving mission, I think you walk across the plaza to get to the parking.

Um, is it will be it will it be fenced off or how or is it open so that people just can walk through that space?

I mean, I guess I'm trying to envision what it looks like.

Do people just walk through to your point of you have young people, you have uh those who would see the dog.

Just kind of what do you envision?

So that the area um remains largely open, and then we'll just have our general signage in terms of um where drinks like the stopping points are, um, and it'll be fairly similar to how Stanley Marketplaces.

And I I don't know if you've been out there, but um it basically says no drinks beyond this point in various areas where we have them, whether it be and those are all outside, um, and so the the boundaries are pretty clear, and the plaza has all of these ballards um where it's very clear that that is the boundary um again, and then we will have actual humans policing that as well.

Um, but in terms of you know, I guess it hasn't per se been an issue when you have a family and people coming out, it's just never really, it's kind of like if you see people in a restaurant and I guess it just hasn't posed a problem per se.

Um, I'll say President Pro Tem, similar to Glenarm on 16th Street.

It's not a common consumption, but they have an open uh area where folks can drink and folks still walk up and down the mall.

Um Ali shared that if we see it within an iterative process that the mixing may require um armbands or something, that may be an iterative step, but right now at Stanley Market and most other places, it's simply the different cups that you have to have, and you have to get it from the establishment.

You can't mix it with anyone else.

So you can't pull something from Mission Ballroom, you can't leave them without any with something.

You can't walk into one of the rest, the the bars and go to the other, and you can't walk through and grab a cup and start drinking.

You have to it.

I mean, it there is a control process and it's a very clear uh security plan.

And I think the biggest thing to note with mission is nothing changes there.

So if someone goes to a show at mission or leaves, nothing changes for them in terms of attending.

So they go in the same, they leave the same, nothing changes at all.

Um, the part about uh participation is that they don't control its era mark, and so it's a you know different um subsidy, and so at this time they wanted to participate on our board and be a part of the program in that sense in the general district, but for them to um participate by having drinks come go, they wanted to just keep that within their building and allow our businesses to participate um only from that sense.

But yes, people going to a show, leaving a show, nothing will change experience-wise, um, from mission ballroom operations and people going to and from shows.

Yeah.

So thank you.

You're so welcome.

Yeah.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Okay, thank you.

Um, before we um wrap this item up, um, I just had a couple of things um real quick.

I guess one of the concerns I have, and um, you know, I think I could have like asked for this to, you know, hold to wait to come to committee because I I was just offered a briefing last week about this issue, and you know, I feel like we have a pretty strong precedent um on this body that we try to talk to council members well ahead of time when we're bringing something um forward, and I just hearing a lot of these questions that are coming up and that we're just getting answers to right now.

I just I have a lot of these same questions as well, and so I do have some concerns that this is the first time we're hearing about it is here in this committee, and we were just offered briefings last week.

Um, at least my office was.

I can speak to, and I've been asking some of the council members when they were offered briefings.

Um, and so that's that's just a I guess a comment and and concern there.

Um, and then I heard the uh issue around you know security, and that would be the responsibility of the businesses.

Um, and then I also heard something mentioned about police uh that police would be also involved, and so I guess would this be an increase in policing in this area?

And if so, would that require additional cost um to be able to have uh police officers or um overtime pay and things like that since those are recent conversations that we've been having, and I'll say clearly no, um, it is not, and what we'll do we could provide a clear security plan.

This does not include increased uh police costs, will not be a request for overtime from Denver police officers.

Okay, um, yeah, I would love to see that in writing.

I'd love to see that from Department of Safety from DPD, just to make sure that we're all on the up and up there.

We can have that provided to all city council members today, okay.

Um, and also, yeah, all of the information that would have been helpful to receive ahead of time to having this presentation.

So I just want to just you know, trying to stay on track here of how we try to operate.

I know that many of us that have brought legislation, we try to we try really hard um to have many conversations with council members ahead of these things being brought forward in the public.

Um, so with that said, um, I don't know if there's any other final remarks you'd like to make, Councilman Watson before there's a motion.

Yeah, I just want to say thank you so much to the team for the uh amount of work and especially for the businesses, and uh no one else is taking this up in five years because this is tough, and y'all have done I think an amazing job.

So I want to really say thank you and thank you to council members for all of your questions.

Um we will do everything we can to provide any additional answers, and like I said, today we'll provide a very clear security plan for folks that didn't receive it in their emails.

We'll have Denver Police also do a validation of any questions folks have as far as impacts to them, and that'll all come today.

With that said, um, is there a motion?

So I did.

Moved by council president pro Tim.

Uh seconded by Councilman Heinz.

Is there a need for a roll call vote?

Not seeing a need for a roll call vote.

This will move forward to the full body.

Thank you so much.

We'll take a brief moment to transition.

Thanks.

And just so folks know, I did make a request if we could go over by 10 minutes, just to give uh a little more time for the presentation from General Services.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Please introduce yourselves and proceed with the presentation.

This is a briefing, Council members, so feel free to jump in with you when you have questions, and then we'll do questions at the end.

Hello, nice to be here.

My name is Steve Gonzalez, General Services.

And I'm Kami Julie, I'm the Director of Administration and General Services.

Thanks for allowing us to uh present this recreational vehicle disposal program briefing.

Um, probably new information, but hopefully this answers, not only is educational but answers a lot of questions for you as well.

Today, um, this is the agenda we're going to have today.

Um, as I mentioned, I'm with General Services and I'm the recreational vehicle program disposal manager.

I've been working in this capacity since uh Q4 of 2001.

Because this program is a subset to a larger effort that the city has in managing people experiencing homelessness and their property.

I'd also like to introduce some we have hosts, department of safety, sheriff department, fire department, police, and I believe we have a set as well.

In case you have questions that I can't answer again, this is the subset of the disposal program that touches on many of the same things that these folks do as well.

Let me highlight something that you probably already know from the point in time count from people experiencing homelessness that Denver has the highest density of people living in RVs or automobiles in the metro area.

This is from January 2025.

I just want to note that it has gone down about 70% since 2024, but but it's still uh the issue that we have here in Denver County.

There's a video I want to present.

My function is to manage the disposal and liability issues associated with the banditness that really damaged RVs once they've become the city's responsibility.

This is a two-part task.

It happens on the public right-of-way and at the stored um city controlled property.

This is the Denver Sheriff Department Vehicle Impound facility.

Um, this is what you see here.

Um, what we do is we dispose of these, which we'll talk about a little later.

If you find that's the safest and best way to control city liability.

The program does not formally work with people experiencing homelessness.

That's left to the city's numerous professionally trained staff.

And I do recognize that RVs and their belongings can represent a significant part of someone's possessions.

But it's only after those RVs and those possessions have gone through the city processing system, which I'll talk about a little later, that the disposal program takes over.

As you can see, the Sheriff Department stores abandon RVs, boats, buses, large vehicles, and this is located at 4650 Still Street, roughly the intersection of I-70 and Vasquez Boulevard.

The city has demolished 1,400 units since January of 2022.

We can talk more about that later.

There are approximately 145 spaces in this lot, and at any one time it was led by the mayor's 50 to 75% capacity throughout the year.

The need was mainly due to a large increase in RVs coming to the lot at the end of 2021.

The existing method was not feasible due to that increase in the hazard load to the vendor we were using for disposal at the time.

It overwhelmed their system.

The city moved to on-site demolition of through a vendor through a Swiss city vendor, and that gave us the best control of all these wastes.

And in April 2025 of this year, it became a formal program with a position established in general services and has a general fund budget of $450,000.

So how does an RV get you into the system?

There's two processes in the intake phase, which has two phases, a receiving and processing phase.

In that phase, the city has control of legal ownership, liability, and notification and due process, and a receiving phase.

That's another two methods.

It uses an enforcement protocol where it classifies the RV at the VIF.

And then it has a host RV program phase, the post program phase, which other folks can talk about later.

That's a more of a proactive way for people experiencing homelessness to move to a non-vehicle shelter where their RV might soon or might be in danger of being towed.

The processing presents a way for the RV to be managed other than being demolished.

Most notably through an auction.

But you can see here, you know, we use our existing city laws for a receiving phase, and once it goes into the processing phase, it can be returned to the owner, owner, title holder, it can go up to public auction, or it can be held for criminal investigation.

It's important to note that most of the RVs at the VIF yard do end up for demolition.

Once that occurs, we go into the RV disposal, which has four phases.

I won't be talking too much about pre-planning or program management, kind of self-explanatory.

This presentation will mostly focus on hazardous waste and the demolition process.

So in early 2022, severely damaged recreational vehicles on right of way became an emerging issue.

And the program has responded to 118 public right of ways since this time.

Got another video to show you.

RVs in this condition cannot be managed safely by our city towing contractor.

They are structurally unsound to be moved or put onto the roadways.

The towing vendor and the towing vendor does not carry the necessary equipment to handle the level of loose debris or a way to properly dispose of the waste streams that these situations present.

And their scope is mainly to get it to the sheriff department yard and do some minor street cleanups as needed.

The RV disposal program makes these a priority because of their potential danger to the public and environment.

And generally generally we try to respond within 24 hours, and we hit that mark pretty pretty regularly.

Some present and increasing, some present and increasing dangers with this situation.

You got pressurized propane tanks, leaking batteries, biohazards, drug paraphernalia, and large amounts of debris.

All these can become dangerous to the road through obstruction, traffic hazards.

The situation attracts legal dumping and from others, and which can increase the waste load to our storm drains, our parks, and our waterways.

The longer they sit, the more structurally damaged they become from wind, rain, and snow.

And they also attract public entry as the longer they sit, they become picked apart.

Next video I want to show you is an actual demolition, obviously sped up.

This is a typical right-of-way demolition done in the presence of DPD community resource officer.

This particular demo took about 30 minutes.

Each one of these has their own unique variables, traffic locations, weather, RV condition, and surrounding obstacles.

We use a hazmat contractor for this work.

This should ensures safe handling, transport, and disposal of all the hazardous materials and debris from something like this.

We're using a grapple truck, which is a truck designed mainly for tree management and tree trunk management, but we find a good operator can do this very fast and efficiently and gets it off the roadway very quickly.

It's a two-person operation.

Our hazmat contractor follows all local, state, and federal regulations for hazardous waste and demolition, and this protects the city's liability to ensure proper documentation and contractor oversight.

Contractor removes all hazardous wastes.

They separate the debris from the chassis.

They clean the debris, they cut the chassis in half.

All the debris goes loaded into the back of the truck, which is sent to dad's landfill, and the chassis, which again has been cut in half, is put on top, and that's delivered to a local scrap middle facility.

The next situation I want to talk about is the VIF.

Right.

So here we see a drone shot of the Sheriff Department of VIF lot.

This is the primary location where RVs are stored and are classified as junker under our own city ordinances.

A junker is an inoperable, disabled, or is an RV in an unsaved condition.

It's extensively damaged, broken windows, missing wheels, doors, things like this.

And there are other conditions in Title 42 vehicles and traffic that define a junker vehicle.

In addition, we often see very major structural modifications that folks do, people experiencing homelessness might do to these RVs, which kind of further exasperates that overall damage to these units.

So here we can see we use a vendor to tow them in.

Next, I want to show you the interior of these.

The next few slides are very typical interior shots of these slides.

They're hazardous and non-hazardous waste environments.

Okay.

We have to use a hazmat train technician using various levels of personal protection equipment just to enter these units.

And I want to emphasize these dangers.

Present because they can be very difficult to clear the waste.

Again, we have to do this per the existing state and federal law so we can clear them and make them remove the waste so that we can demolish them.

The waste cannot go with the demolition debris.

Hazards include weapons.

You can see a person here on the on the right holding a knife, sharps, needles, biohazards, propane leaks, overwhelming odors, which can be a very, very common thing that happens here.

And then trace amounts of fentanyl powder has been seen.

Well, whenever weapons or or drugs are seen, the sheriff department is called by our contractor immediately.

These to clear a unit like this, could it can take roughly two hours on some of these, just for a two-person team to clear these as well.

Next slide.

First off, they only accept RVs that are 2010 and newer.

And from the data that we collect from the city, most of these RVs are not are not that new or newer.

So that's one obstacle.

The other is they mentioned that due to the condition, I showed them slides or showed them some pictures, their liability is too high because of the drug contamination.

As you know, if a house or facility is drug contaminated, there's a high level of things they have to do just to clear that facility for public or for person to re-enter it.

And then another obstacle is that most of those companies don't accept a city-generated new title new title.

Sheriff can speak more about this, but most of these units do not have a clean title or a title at all.

And so hence another way they become abandoned to the city.

Many of these interiors are also used to haul debris.

They're not actually used for a living space for somebody experiencing homelessness.

They're actually used to haul metal tires or things that they deem have a salvageable value.

And so that just adds to how you know that becomes our liability now that we have to manage.

But just want to note that that many of these RVs don't even have an opportunity to become renovated because they're using basically as a truck or some kind of space to haul them.

We also clear the exterior because many of the hazards can be found outside as well.

And we have to use large equipment.

Our vendor has to use large equipment, and we generated 600 cubic yards of municipal solid waste just in this last year, spending almost $10,000, just to remove the waste that allows us to demolish these RVs on site.

Other things we do in the clearing process so that we can't do demolition, is uh we have a subcontractor come in who does wastewater management.

The gray and the black water have to be removed.

It's not there very often, but we do have to check and verify that.

We remove electronic wastes, televisions, computers, phones, things like that.

These are not allowed in landfill.

We remove pressurized propane tanks, fire hydrants, nicad and lithium batteries.

You see here at the bottom right, a bucket full of ammunition.

These are things that you have to have that detail of that contractor go through to find just so we can get them to be accepted at the landfill.

We remove mud, we remove lots of chemicals, household chemicals, appliances, and then of course auto batteries as well.

The main thing we remove are fuel, oil, and antifreeze.

Thousands of gallons a year.

Keep in mind that through environmental health, this these few these wastes are added to our overall city, city fleet wastes, generating the same wastes.

And so it does increase our liability and puts us in, can put us in different regulations with state and federal environmental waste disposal rules.

There's another video I want to show you.

This is a demolition done at the Denver Sheriff Department VIF yard.

So keep in mind we've done just about just a bit over 1,400 of these in the last four years.

Again, this is sped up, but this demolition can go much faster, has a lot more control.

We're not out on public property, obviously.

We're using a bigger piece of equipment, and uh technician who really knows what they're doing can we can clear we can clear up to 10 in a day.

You know, we've done even more than that sometimes.

And sometimes we've needed to do that just depending on uh how many we have to.

So what you can see he's doing there is he's separating the the chassis from the rest of the unit, creating a debris pile, which is in the back there, and then behind kind of behind the the backhoe itself, you see a chassis pile.

Right.

Again, this is after all that material has been removed from them, and that debris pile will be, and I'll show you here a momentarily, will be sent to the landfill.

But in real time, this may take two, three minutes, versus one on the street, they can get pretty detailed.

They could take the subfloor right off that chassis.

And then from there, the same contractor that we use, hazmat contractor, loads the debris pile into an open top haul trailer, again off to dad's landfill, and the scrap metal is sent to a metal recycler.

Alright, next I want to talk a little about the data that we have here.

Okay, you can take a moment to kind of digest this graph.

What we can see here is that the first two years intakes and costs increased dramatically.

Keep in mind that in 2021, I took a look at the Sheriff Department data.

They had 30 RVs that were in this situation.

And the city has always had RVs in this situation historically, but not at these numbers.

And the contractor that we were sending them to for demolition, for lack of a better term, was handling the waste on their own because the Sheriff Department sends many, many more autos to this demo of recycler than they do RVs.

It was kind of like a bit of a favor that they had, right?

But once that number increased so much, you can see 148 in 2022 jumping to 510.

We were overwhelming that contract, and they were no longer accepting us.

They were make they were saying, hey, we you have to clear these hazardous, non-hazardous waste before we can take them.

You can see in the last two years everything dropped significantly, right?

From 22 from 23 to 24, intake numbers dropped 14%, from 24 to 25, they dropped 28%.

But importantly, what we learned is the demolition process, even though it fell, we we can't recommend that.

We I can't see a trend and why it why it jumped so fast and why it fell.

We don't really have an idea of what caused that, what could cause it again, and how that could happen again.

But we did learn some efficiencies in, especially since 2023.

When we first started our demolition program, it cost us $3,700 per unit in 2022 to demolish a unit.

This year it cost us $1,400.

So our contractors learning some efficiencies.

It's a very new business for them as well.

So the numbers are coming down, but as you know, I can see, we did three 317 RVs, but Denver County's a significant amount.

But keep in mind we still have a hundred of these units at the site right now, waiting to go through the sheriff department's processing phase.

So even though we demolished 317 this year, our intake this year, the city's intake was over just over 400.

Those will be demolished in 2026.

You know, as I mentioned, we only have 145 spaces at the VIF lot.

We've processed 1400.

We will run out of space within a few months.

So we're always in danger of doing that.

Storing presents its own issues as well.

I've contacted some other cities, Seattle for one.

Um, because they do store, and we can go talk about this later, but if you have questions, but they have numerous issues when they store hundreds and hundreds of these units.

Um it's it's not done through the city, it's done through their towing contractor, and there's problems with that.

So even though it's falling, uh, we can't predict the trends.

I believe, we believe that the demolition process is being good stewards with taxpayers' money and it avoids many potential problems down the road.

It's uh the problem once once we see the problem, it's it's generally gone within within a week.

Innovation that we had this year, which I'm very excited about with a tight city budget, we're looking for other ways to stay within our 2026 budget.

Dotty, this is a Dotty crew here, Dotty Run crew.

They recently assisted us at uh the vehicle impound facility with demolition and debris management after the units had been cleared of hazardous waste.

We're not putting our own city employees in into that danger.

But they do have the equipment to demolish certain size RVs.

You can see that at the top left.

They also have the equipment and the dump trucks, obviously, to load that, and then at the bottom they can take that debris right to uh a satellite, uh uh a dad's satellite facility nearby.

It's very fast and efficient, and they're they're they're getting pretty good.

I kind of hope to keep this relationship going with uh with that Dottie crew.

It's been it's been very favorable.

Some of the opportunities that we're still exploring with this program overall are scrap metal revenue.

You know, uh in the demolition process, because we use a contractor at that at this time they're taking that revenue and they're offsetting that by giving us a better price per unit.

Well, could the city you know, I'm looking in, we're looking at ways to essentially say what can we do with that chassis motor and transition that metal.

Um, because we do have a the city does have a contract with the with the scrap metal company, and we we can start those negotiations and see if we can probably not supplement the entire program but just get some revenue back.

And the same with uh city surplus revenue.

To a much lesser extent, sometimes there are working tools generators, appliances, electronics in these RVs that are now the city's liability, and through our city surplus, we might be able to see a revenue source in that way as well.

That's my presentation.

I hope you enjoyed it.

And if you have any questions, let me know.

Councilman Heinz.

Followed by Council President Sandoval.

Thank you, committee chair.

Thank you for the presentation.

Uh in particular, thank you for the videos.

And I mean that's compelling.

I had my car stolen um six or seven years ago, so I got to see the impound lot.

Is that RB lot?

Is that separate from the okay?

I was like, I don't remember seeing that many RDs, but if it's a separate lot, um it's just incredible the number of uh ones that you already have in it.

Right.

The impound lot, much less the ones that are on the street, too.

So thank you for um sharing that.

That's sure.

Absolutely.

Um it also be interesting.

Some kid, it's gonna go to show and tell.

This is what my parent does for a living, is to destroy RV a lot for my kids.

It must be a fun, fun job to uh to get to take things apart.

Well, I don't do the demolition personally, but I mean, but you know, whoever does it.

I mean, and if they can if they have you said efficiencies, they can tear apart an RV in two to three minutes.

I mean, yeah, now I'm not just worried about the tow truck that's gone in 60 seconds.

I'm worried about like it actually being crashed in two or three minutes.

That's that's uh anyway.

Um, the uh what's the process of giving uh get getting an RV back to an owner who wants it back?

That question is definitely for Sheriff Barber.

And if you would introduce yourself at the microphone.

Sergeant Shelley, I'm second in command of the vehicle impound facility.

Um, every vehicle that brought is brought into uh sheriff's impound for whatever reason, whether it's an RV or not, it could be a motorcycle, it could be uh gator, it could be a watercraft, whatever.

Uh by state law, uh we have to notify basically the three stakeholders in that vehicle.

If there's any lien holder, if there's a registered owner and a title holder, they could all be different entities, but they all have a stake in that vehicle.

Um historically, I've been there two years.

Getting a vehicle of a like the recreational vehicles that you're seeing back to um somebody that claims to have lost it, doesn't happen.

Because these things are so old, there's no clean title to them.

The lien has long since uh been taken care of.

Um, if there even is a title to it, uh frequently it's signed on the back multiple times to different people, and the signature doesn't matter to us by state law, it has to the title has to be with your name on the front of the title with no writing on the back.

That is what a clean title is.

Um typically somebody will say that they own this vehicle, and if there can be a title found, uh it'll be on the back, but they have no bill of sale from the previous owner.

Uh recently, I I had to do uh basically a uh conflict resolution with somebody saying, Listen, the last person I can find any ownership on this vehicle is seven years ago.

So at that point, whoever claims to have owned the vehicle, they have no ownership, they have no stake, and everything in that vehicle is the last registered or title holder that I can find on it by state.

So we do NCIC searches, we search nationwide.

Uh so when you say um it doesn't happen, occasionally you get people coming by wanting to something, but they can't prove that they own it.

So exactly, they'll they'll say, Oh, that's my RV.

Well, that RV and everything in it really, those are my RV.

Right, exactly.

And everything in it is I can't prove by law that you have any stake in this.

Got it.

Okay, um, well, that was yeah, that that was actually gonna be my next question.

Is you know, um, the number of people actually get the RV back.

Um, sounds like it's it's pretty rare.

I mean, every once in a while we'll bring we'll get one impounded that uh legitimately was was towed for like a 72-hour parking rule or whatever, and they're they have a title and a registration, or it was impounded for uh improper use of plates, uh, or expired registrations and stuff like that.

They go get a press registration and they're able to drive it out and stuff like that.

But with the disposal program that Steve is talking about, those junkers, I I've never seen one go back to somebody else.

Okay, yeah, I've just got an email this morning of uh someone saying that there's an abandoned vehicle in front of his house, and um he was saying right-of-way enforcement is no longer enforcing the 72-hour.

That's right-of-way enforcement.

I've got two deputies that that handle all six uh DPD districts that specifically handle uh complaints of abounding vehicles because the police officers they have more urgent and stuff to do.

I can't have a police officer sitting on a street sitting on an abandoned vehicle call waiting 30 minutes for a tow truck if he's got a domestic that he needs to respond to.

That's why the sheriff's office does that.

Yeah, okay.

Um, yeah, I just I I think that the nature of my question is I didn't want to crush something that uh you know someone wanted back, but it sounds like it's very difficult to identify an owner or the back of the title assigned a bunch of times, and really what's what's important is the front of the tile.

So memo to all those who sign over their title.

Um the person who receives that should go get a new title as quickly as possible.

Absolutely.

And and if somebody claims that they have a title, um, we don't allow them to go into the vehicle, but also the sheriff's deputy out to the vehicle.

Tell me specifically where the title is.

Oh, it's in the back bedroom top left drawer.

Okay, well, it's not a clean title, but your name is on the back, and there was a bill of sale attached to it.

We'll give that to them, we'll give them some time, go to DMV and get a clean title.

You the only other thing that we'll do for them um is things like medications.

You know, you have an ID that says you're you're you know, Jane Doe, and I've got my cancer meds or my diabetes meds sitting right there in this spot, and it's got my name on it.

Absolutely, you know, we'll try to take care of people that way, but it's got to be very specific to their name.

Everything else in the vehicle doesn't belong to them.

Thank you.

That's uh I want to follow up with you after this.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, thank you.

Great, thank you so much.

Uh Council President Sanimal.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Just want to say thank you to the team sitting over there.

Um, in Northwest Denver, we don't have the pictures of the ones that have caught on fire, but I know we do have pictures of some of the ones from my council district, definitely in that lot.

We get a lot of them piled up along 46th and um between Federal and Sheridan, because what happens is they'll just go over to 50th in Adams County and then hang out by the ones and then come back over and then come back over so you can see them literally go back into Adams County and then come back over.

Um so for the general fund, I agree that I believe that this is a good use of our tax dollars.

I wouldn't want um people going into the RVs if they've been exposed to meth or anything that that's a that's a um a hazardous waste.

How can we be more supportive on the city council side?

I know that we've changed our ordinance for 72 hours.

I believe that was council member Cashman and a group of other people.

Um, I've looked into the ordinance to figure out is it working, is it not working, how does it need to get changed?

If you have suggestions on how we could be more supportive on the policy side, um, please reach out to my office because this is something that I'm actively interested in.

Um, I do want us to be able to a have you know people think that just because you have your house that you are confronting your house.

I'm always having the conversation that no, that street belongs to everybody.

Um, and but it is really hard when you have it, especially in my council district, um, sprinter vans that are a hundred and fifty thousand dollars, and then you go all the way down to some of these vans where people are living in them, and then they get exposed to other things because they're doing um activities in there that should not be happening.

So that's the my lived reality in Northwest Denver is you have everyone from a sprinter van that's um being charged in on the right of way, and everyone's like, Well, why doesn't that have to move every 72 hours?

Why?

Because it's a hundred and fifty thousand dollar car, and it's a sprinter van and it's being charged, compared to um one of these RVs where somebody is living in front of you know, living and living along a park where it's more um prevalent.

So just want to say thank you for this work.

I actually have toured the impound law, I have seen it.

I've gone there, I wanted to witness it myself to be able to figure out what was happening there.

I think anyone, um, it might be hoovie to reach back out to city council members to tour that again now that you have so many RVs out there.

I think when I toured it, we didn't have as many RVs.

I can't really remember.

Um, but just want to say thank you because this is something that my council aides and I talk about often is how do we address this issue in Denver?

How do we dispose of them?

How are we protecting our sheriffs, our fire department, and our police department, and our Dotty workers and you all in general services?

Because I'm always thinking about how to streamline things and not have as many workers, city workers on a project, but this isn't one where you can streamline it.

It has to be done by outside contractor.

So just food for thought.

If you have ideas on policy and things that would help, please feel free to reach out to my office.

Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Um, well, thank you for for coming to provide um this information that's super helpful.

And it sounds like there may be some uh continued conversations coming out of this and maybe some tours happening, so we'll all keep an eye out for all of that.

Um, with that said, council members, we have three items on consents.

Those will go forward, seeing that nobody has called them off, and we are adjourned, eating dinosaur called Ornithamimid.

Uh, we have all sorts of different dinosaur tracks here, and it was all