Present.

Councilmember Letitia Johnson.

Present.

Councilmember Mary Waters.

Present.

Mr.

Chair, you have a quorum present.

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Now move us on to approval of the minutes.

Members of the committee should have received the minutes.

And with that, I'll entertain a motion to approve.

Motion to approve the minutes.

Without any objections, the mo the minutes will stand approved.

And we will now open public comment.

Request for public comment will close at 11.

Please limit your remarks to two minutes.

We'll start with those in the room.

And for those participating remotely, please use the raise hand feature.

And you will be called in order.

I'm seeing no folks in here in person.

Yes, Mr.

Chair.

As of now, we have eight hands raised.

All right.

Our first caller is Jadante Smith.

Mr.

Jadante Smith, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Mr.

Smith, are you there?

Okay, let's come back.

Next caller.

Our next caller is Betty A.

Varner.

Miss Varner, good afternoon.

Can you hear us?

Yes.

Good afternoon to you and all with that all within the sound of my voice.

I'm Betty A.

Varner, president of the Soda Els World Block Association.

But today I want to speak as a resident.

Now my concern is this program, the Lifeline H2O program.

I have been approved for the program.

My bill was due February 5th.

I paid my $34 on February 2nd.

I received my bill for March that is due March 6th.

And it states I have a past due amount.

And so I call the water department and I spoke with the agent.

And she confirmed that I am in the uh lifeline H2O program.

But she says how it worked is that the amount that I am not paying that's excess of that $34 is being frozen.

And in June of 2026, that amount will be unfrozen, and I would be uh have the option of paying that entire balance or going on a payment plan.

When we receive the information about this program that was never explained, I haven't received anything in writing, and that's the problem.

If that is the way this program is working, then it should have been explained.

So I'm asking that someone come from the water department and explain this program so we'll know what we thank you, Miss Varner.

Um, yes, we will follow up with the water department to get someone um after public comment.

I'll ask Mr.

Washington about that.

Thank you.

Next caller.

Our next caller is please look into BZA court reporting contract.

Miss Warwick, good afternoon.

Can you hear me?

Can you hear me?

Yep, you have two minutes.

Okay, great.

Yeah, I noticed that the BZA is still using remote legal, and the contract they had before included uh having the court reporter there, the Zoom hearing, a rough draft transcript, and then a certified transcript, but then there's some kind of request for another contract went out that was a little bizarre, saying the BZA wanted to see the transcript before it went out.

That would be unheard of in a court of law.

So I'm just wondering if you can look into that.

Another matter I wanted to talk about since the Gordy Hill Bridge is such a popular topic these days.

So it appears to me the city's not the one that used eminent domain against the homeowners in the Del Ray area to get them out of the bridge area.

However, we Detroit taxpayers are paying to fix up land bank homes to be moving ready for the people moving out of the bridge area.

And so I would like to ask this committee to consider and this administration to uh you know give the same treatment to the people that are getting uh you know pushed out of the solar areas because I know one woman in particular, she told me the city bullied her to take a deal.

I tried to help her, but frankly, I think she was afraid.

Um she's lived there for 59 years, had a five-bedroom house, 13 grandkids, told me she cried every day, and um she didn't get enough money to buy another house.

I hear she's living with her sister, and she had a stroke.

So please understand that when you do these things to people, it has a severe health impact on people.

And the the city could have done another solar plan, got plenty of parking lots, all this other stuff.

It you know, and DT just got hit.

I saw with a hundred million dollar fine for violating the Clean Air Act.

And guess who's gonna have to pay for that?

But anyway, back to what the city can do is why aren't we doing uh solarize bridge the people to another neighborhood instead of now they got to go live with the family member and other people didn't get benefits.

Thank you, Miss Ward.

Um, before we move forward with public comment, I'm gonna call the 115 um presentation.

Um, I'm gonna call that to order, and then we're gonna recess the 115 presentation to the call of the chair.

And then all right, we'll go with the next caller.

Our next caller is William Davis.

Commissioner Davis, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Commissioner Davis, are you there?

He has fallen off.

Next call.

Um, our next caller is Cunningham.

All right, we'll come back to Mr.

Davis if he comes back in line.

Um, brother Cunningham, good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

31349114, 3134, 9114.

313 4449114.

That number was made so you can remember it.

Remember that number is my cash app.

That number is Facebook.

Uh some of y'all didn't know you can cash app using a number and not the cash uh tag.

You can put in 313 44494.

You can search on Google 313 4449114.

You can search in Facebook 313 4449114.

You can reach me at that number, you can listen to the message.

Um, I'm always out in the community.

Um, I give out hand warmers, gloves, bus tickets at the bus stops, and I am in need of bus tickets.

A young lady this morning that I gave bus tickets to, I have some words to say as it regards to public transportation.

I ride the bus just to stay acquainted.

But she deals with a lot of people at her job that take the bus, and she takes the bus herself.

She's another demographic, she's about five, eight, Caucasian, blonde, gray hair.

Um 59 years old.

What's your name, man?

Hi, my name is Sandra McCracken, and I work at the coin laundry and I ride the bus.

And it's always filthy, and I tell you, they're never on time, ever.

Ever.

And you said you don't think they care.

You say that you don't think they'll do anything about it.

I don't think they will.

I've been doing this for a long time.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Okay.

And as I as I said to you all, that the new buses should not be breaking down.

Where was the inspections and other things?

There should be a sense of urgency.

Everybody who's comfy in a warm vehicle, if you're not angry about the situation, there is something wrong with you.

Bougie.

Some folks have to ride the book.

Thank you, Brother Cunningham.

Um, next caller.

Our next caller is owner Papa.

Good afternoon.

You have to the chairman Abby Heard.

Yes, you may.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon.

Um, Mr.

Mr.

Cunningham, the people who you just spoke to have all of the ability to make the busing system better by how they employ people, people who are in charge to um execute what they what we need to have done.

Um, 7.1 on your agenda is about an audit and ARPAR audit.

And as the woman said, uh the fill the buses are filthy.

And I don't know if you understand that the ARPA money came because of a health issue, a pandemic.

They have an audit that says the MBI, that's the beautification portion of the uh funding, but they have an interesting footnote.

According to the OCFO office development and grants representative budgeted, expenditures have been fully obligated before December 2024.

Due to changes to the SLFRF dashboard, the cumulative spending data is no longer available.

That's very suspicious.

And then we come down to 7.5.

And we look at um the the um uh the property the the long-term uh debt.

Mr.

Shelton and Mr.

Ramon Jackson came frequently to speak to the committee about this, but I I find this interesting note.

City debt policy.

Beyond the legal debt margin, the city has established its own debt policy and limitations.

That sounds very suspicious and illegal to me.

And what we are saying is that the people are not getting the funds, as they said, people in the Gordy How got houses.

What about the people in the Leland House?

Can't they get some of those houses?

This is very discriminatory.

It's very unfair to do this to the majority of the people in this city and then put all of this debt on our backs.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next caller.

Our next caller is phone number ending in 482.

Good afternoon, phone number in the in 482.

You have two minutes.

Phone number ended in 482.

Are you there?

All right, let's come back.

Next caller.

Our next caller is phone number ending in 039.

Phone number ending in 039.

Good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

And I caught Janice Winfrey peating in Detroit election.

Yeah.

And the homicide unit for the GTD covering up murder.

With an S on the end.

Isaiah White did not shoot himself in the back of his head with no 18-inch barrel shotgun.

With a blunt in his hand.

That's BS.

And we're coleman.

DCDK 20-112 did not shoot herself.

Servain McLeod did it.

It was simple deduction reasoning information provided by the Detroit Police Department and the Michigan State Police that allowed me to come to that conclusion.

It can't nobody.

Damn line about sugar honey IT.

I'm young blood from the Brewster Project in 1980.

And I'm also real from the back seat of that black limousine at the age of 17 at the Charlie Plaza Partman's parking garage.

I'm one of the codes.

In Detroit, the state of Michigan, the county of Wayne.

Or the country of America.

Just say it ain't true.

I'm one of the code.

Okay.

Next caller.

We have uh our last caller before you cut off public comment, plus the three others will try to return to uh the next caller is Renard Monchowski.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Miss Uh Mr.

Chair.

Renard Myshenski for the record.

Can you hear me?

Yes, yes, good afternoon.

Um you have two minutes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair and honorable members.

Uh I wanted to uh could my name's Renard Boschinski.

I'm a resident of District 6, and I organize with Detroit People's Platform on transit justice issues.

Um I really want to thank you for um uh the time uh for last night and district seven to speak on uh transit issues on an expanded basis.

What I was trying to uh say towards the end of my comment uh to clarify is that uh we may have an election on the ballot for um uh a ballot proposal for a transit millage that is countywide for Wayne County, and this will help um DDOT and Smart and other regional systems connect with each other.

It is our concern, and Donald Stuckey, who is with the Michigan League for Public Policy said this um as well, and I want to back him on this, is that there is a concern that if we do get this millage, the city of Detroit will use this as a reason to cut off its general subsidy to DDOP.

Unfortunately, DDOT technically does not have us a stable source of funding.

It is up to this honorable body to determine the subsidy or which is the general fund um money, our tax dollars that we sent to Detroit's treasury to fund DDO.

It also relies on state funding and also federal funding.

And we've been really um our coalition, the double DDOC coalition along with Allies, Detroit Bruce Platform.

We have been um organizing for increased funding for operations um at the state level as well, too.

So the city of Detroit is actually trending opposite of the rest of the country, which is had to cut service and increase fares, um, reducing weekday service as well, which really harms working class families.

So if we continue on our trajectory of continue to invest in and transit and using that millage money along with our general fund contribution, Doc can uh accomplish its objectives.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Um, do we have folks come back on?

Yes, we have um the three who are trying to come back on.

Our first is Jadante Smith.

Jadante Smith, good afternoon.

Are you there?

Good afternoon, I'm here.

All right, you have two minutes.

Uh so I just want to say my focus is a little bit shifting.

So uh I see the work that Brother Cunningham does on the buses.

I'm outside right now, and you can hear a lot of cars going behind me.

I've been waiting on a Jefferson bus for like 30 minutes.

I suppose we're having 15 minutes.

So, like our transit system needs a lot of improvement.

Um, I also want to say I'm so sorry to council member uh Johnson.

Uh I was supposed to be with her last night, and I my wires got crossed because of lack of transportation, things like that.

I missed the meeting.

Um, but uh I do appreciate you.

This time it was a million percent of my fault.

We did not meet.

Uh won't put any blame on you.

You were very diligent yesterday in reaching back out.

I appreciate that.

Um, I also want to say in the coming weeks, we'll be doing a flood of city council talking about Chronos concrete.

Um, I'm trying to get in touch with uh Kimani Jeffries from uh CPC about down zoning efforts.

Also, I have a couple interesting things.

I've talked to a couple of different members of city council about down zoning, and they pointed me to the administration.

So Mike Duggan, the former mayor of the city of Detroit for 12 years.

I have him on top him at the charter mandated meeting telling me that down zoning is a legislative process that goes to city council, as in the 2024 down zoning of uh core city, um, where it went completely through the city planning commission through city council with unanimous vote.

I would love assistance from city council on the down zoning effort.

I'm gonna make sure I get everybody in information about Chronos and their non-operating land to down zone it.

Um, just because I feel like there's so much information out there, and so many council members should have it.

They act oblivious, but I'm gonna make sure you get it.

Um also there's a meeting coming up about the Boston Family Center development that was proposed in uh I believe 2020 from uh IDV negative plan.

I'm definitely gonna be attending that meeting and paying very, very close attention to the island with the island view area and also the sponsor family center development.

But district three needs so much help and so much tender loving care.

And also Keith Butler is doing a terrible job.

He's district manager district five.

He's not helped me in any of my issues.

Thank you.

Next caller.

Our second to last caller is William Davis.

Mr.

Davis, good afternoon.

Can you hear us?

Uh yes, can you hear me?

Yes, uh, I can.

Um, you good afternoon.

You have two minutes.

Okay, great.

I I think that many people in the city of Detroit, especially property owners, would love to see uh audit of the drainage fee on what's coming in, what's going out, and who the city is allowing to get credits, you know, because I know some churches and some business get more credit than others.

And perhaps come up with a reason why the city in the past 12 years have been picking winners and losers.

Um because during the past 12 years, not only have 4,000 over 4,000 general fund city retirees have died, but a number of churches and businesses have gone out of business because of the drainage fee.

So I think it would be prudent for us to have uh a clear audit as what's going on, how those funds are being spent and where those funds are going and who are get exemptions or get credits that others may not be receiving.

Also, I think you know, like uh the opera funds it was mentioned earlier that could have been used.

Yeah, you know, like I said, there's still is going to be city Detroit retirees, general fund retirees that would have died, but if they had used those, like they legally could have and should have, that number could have been reduced.

I believe I so highly believe that the previous administration had a policy where he wanted more of us to die.

That's why I've been advocating for people not to vote for Mike Dugan for anything other than to go to jail.

I also like to encourage people to um register to vote.

I also like to encourage people, Detroit is there are Democrats, so Metro Detroit is the Democrats to go to the Democratic Convention here in Detroit in April.

We we need to know who's going to be in charge of the Secretary of State who's going to be an attorney general, and you know, and other things like who's going to be on these school boards.

That's why you could have an influence on what's happening.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next caller.

And our last caller is phone number ending in 482.

Phone number ending in 482.

Are you there?

Yeah, and I ain't lying about sugar honey ice tea.

We already had that uh concludes public comment.

All right, thank you so much.

Um and and just in um trying to keep the process on how we are now doing public comment and formal session.

Um just trying to save comments to the end.

What I will say for folks, um want to bring Mr.

Washington on about the water department and the affordability programs.

Um Mr.

Washington, if we can just get the reach out to the water department to get a presentation on affordability programs soon before the committee.

Good afternoon, good afternoon, and through the chair, yes.

Absolutely, we can work to get that schedule with Routine.

Thank you.

And Miss Varner, um, for your specific water bill, if you can reach out to my office, we can help um get some uh specific answer answers to your questions.

And that's 313-224-2151.

Thank you.

Um, and I know there are quite a few comments about the bus system.

Um, as folks know, we had a conversation in public health and safety earlier this week.

Um, I know that continues to be a concern, and we're gonna continue to work to ensure one that the funding is there and that the service and quality improves.

All right.

Vice Chair Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, to Mr.

Jadante Smith, um, just want to let you know that we did submit a memo requesting um information about down zoning.

So I will share that information with you via email.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Vice Chair Johnson.

All right.

That'll move us on.

We'll go back to our um presentation.

Um we had uh we have a presentation, uh, we'll call the order of the 115 presentation on uh the Department of Treasury water revenue estimates.

And with this, um it was a request.

Oh, for Miss Varner, yes, I I addressed for Ms.

Varner to um for her to reach out to our office specifically on here, but we're gonna have the water department come um for the presentation soon soon on the affordability programs.

All right, yes.

Uh so with the 115 presentation, we were actually asked to bring this back next week um so that we can have all of the parties in the room regarding the water estimates and the what the revenue estimates for that.

Um, just wanted to make sure everybody is on the same page.

So if there's if there's a motion to bring this back in one week.

Seeing no objections, we will bring this back in one week.

All right, that'll move us on to unfinished business.

Um we have uh 6.1 a petition uh for Mr.

Ramakon.

And if I'm pronouncing your name wrong, please do correct me.

But if you could uh come up to the table, please, sir.

And we're going to uh good afternoon.

We're going to uh dedicate 10 minutes to the presentation if that is okay with you.

Um but if you can just state your name um for the record and then you may begin.

Sure, good afternoon.

Um members of the council.

My name is Wayne Ramagan Sr.

Um I currently serve in a volunteer capacity as a director of educational development for the Caribbean Community Service Center, a nonprofit 501 C3 organization.

Uh my involvement there reflects a lifelong commitment to uh community advocacy and uh service.

So thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak before this budget finance and audit standing committee.

Um recently I had a personal uh experience that brought this issue that I'm addressing today to the forefront of my attention.

And it's made clear to me that this is an area where I must step forward and speak out as an advocate.

So today I'm here calling for uh reform on unfair property tax fees and interest.

Um I come to you at uh as a lifelong Detroit resident, District 4 to be uh precise, um, who has witnessed uh firsthand how our current property tax laws are harming homeowners, um not because people refuse to pay, but because small debts are snowballing into massive burdens under the way that the law these laws are written.

Uh before going any further, I must I want to acknowledge Wayne County Treasurer Eric Sabree uh and the work being done by the Wayne County Treasurer's Office.

Um let me say this plainly that I think Mr.

Sabree is doing a great job, a fantastic job, as a matter of fact.

Um on Monday at the hybrid meeting, uh District 4 hybrid meeting, I had an opportunity to talk with him as well.

And uh got you here, also his heart.

Um and I he understands where I'm coming from, I understand where he's coming from, I understand his why.

Um so I I I this is not directed at Mrs.

Sippy in any way whatsoever.

I want to make that clear.

So uh, but this is a um it's critical.

And it why it's critical because he explained the why.

And in understanding the why, I understand that it's how the laws are written.

So as much as I know that he he has the interest of the Detroit residents at heart, there's so much that that he can do.

So I'm here um to see if there's any way that the the the laws can be uh uh addressed somehow.

So the current laws requires office to operate within a structure that behaves quite frankly uh like a predatory uh lending system.

Um he must enforce his rules, he must abide by these rules.

I I I do understand that.

And he's he's sworn to serve.

Uh so the issue isn't with his leadership, uh, it's with the law itself.

Uh so I want to make that abundantly clear.

That's why I'm standing here I'm here today.

Because real reform requires collaboration and legislative action.

Um we need better laws.

Laws that give the Wayne County Treasure's office the tools, the discretion, and the flexibility to truly serve Detroit homeowners.

Right now, interest compounds and fees stack up until the bill becomes six or seven times uh the original tax amount.

Uh that's not fair.

Uh it's not fiscally responsible, and it certainly does not reflect the value of this great city.

Um my personal story, how this came on my radar, is that um in my home there's a vacant lot right next to it.

My son purchased that lot um and I I was going through to pay my taxes, and I recognized the address.

So I called him and to ask him if he knew that this lot was in in uh delinquency almost upon a foreclosure.

And that's when he said to me, Well, I thought you were taking care of it.

He purchased it for me.

I did not know it was a miscommunication in our part.

So uh uh uh that that we work that out.

The reason I point that out is the lot uh tax amount for 2022 was 57 and 91 cents.

When I when I discovered it, it was now 329.72 cents.

That was the year 2022.

Year 2023, 57.24 cents.

And as of and at the time that I discovered it, that was 319 and four cents.

And I thought that was so I called the treasurer's office.

Clearly was oversight on our part because of miscommunication to see what could be worked out, and there's nothing they could do except to maybe a payment plan.

And there's nothing they could do except to maybe a payment plan.

But there was no in-house program for that that Wayne County offers itself.

These are third party.

So you know, um, so it led me to the point that look, if if I'm going, I was able to take care of it, thank God.

But if I am going through this, what about all the citizens who are extrapped with this with a much higher bill, who because of maybe a mental challenge, they may not be paying attention to their finances like they should, or whatever the issue that they're not able to stay on top of it, and then now find out a hundred dollar bill could be now eight hundred dollars.

I don't think that's fiscal uh um was empathetic.

So this is a call to action.

The reason why I'm here.

As um the questions, you know, I want to ask is what can we do as leaders, as city leaders, um, as partners, what can we do about this?

So um, Detroit has always led the real change that was needed.

And I know that this is a Wayne County issue, but I think Detroit can lead the way in advocating for this.

I uh I think we can build a partnership, somehow gets uh a legislator lancing to create a bill, get it in front of the the uh the the house for a vote, get it on the governor's desk, something that can stop this predatory practice.

Um so that's kind of the I I I don't want to take up a lot of time, so I there's a lot more that I can say, but uh this basically is just a um uh a call for action that I'm here today because our citizens have to prey upon long enough.

Um I don't know how long this has been going on to tell the truth.

Like I said, I just discovered it.

So I pr I assume this has been going for a long time.

They deserve to be protected, they deserve to be respected and treated fairly under the law that the city uh that that that they call that they call home in this city.

So um we can't turn away.

I don't think something can turn away from.

So thank you for your time uh for your service and for standing with the people of Detroit to make this something that's we can do on their behalf.

We can advocate for them, we can you know do something for them to make sure that this is not something that they experience uh any longer.

So thank you, and I appreciate the time that you've given me thank you so much, sir.

I will um we'll turn over for questions, but I appreciate you um coming before us and bringing up this issue.

I know as we have conversation around property taxes and just what you brought up of folks getting fees and interest and thinking that they can um they may have gotten up the money to pay those back taxes, but then when they go and see that it's is so much more than they thought, especially in a city that's facing um a deep poverty, we really um send folks in the uh a spiral that may not be they may not be able to come out of and and hearing you understanding that yes, this is something that is on the uh state level and with our state law with the property taxes, um, but in ways that we can lift that up.

Um so I appreciate you coming for us.

But before I get into questions, I'll ask if my um colleagues have any questions for uh Vice Chair Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and good afternoon, Mr.

Ramakin.

Thank you for coming down.

Um it was it was interesting that you um came to the meeting on Monday and Treasurer Sabree was there as well, so I'm glad you had that opportunity to communicate with him directly.

Um and I appreciate you um understanding and knowing how all of this works, right?

Yes, and I appreciate you for reaching out to come before us to have this conversation.

I do want to share one thing.

Um, although this wouldn't have would not have applied directly to the situation that you mentioned because it was a side lot.

Um however, if that side lot may have been um combined with the parcel that your property is on, you may have been able to uh qualify for the interest reduced stipulated payment agreement, the ERSPA, that the Wayne County um that Wayne County offers.

Uh it is for owner-occupied properties.

Um again, if you had bundled the lot with your property, the the person that your property is on, you may have been able to apply for that.

Uh, and so that is for everyone who's listening.

If you have outstanding um tax payments that are uh delinquent, you can apply for the Earth but for your owner occupied property.

It reduces the interest rate from 18% to six percent.

I'm not sure if it addresses the fees that are associated with the delinquency, because based on the information that you share, where your costs were exacerbated were the fees that get applied as well, because if it was 18% on $60 that were owed, it would have been something you know around $15 or what have you.

Um and so I think that is part of the challenge.

So what we will do is um we'll put in a request to the legislative policy division for them to uh evaluate what it would take to amend the fees and interest that are charged for delinquent taxes.

Um I do think it's important for us to make sure that we understand what uh Treasurer Sabrie mentioned at the meeting is the fees that he is charged when an account becomes delinquent.

Right.

Um, so we need to have that full conversation, but we will put that request in to LPD to look at what it would take to address the interest and fees.

I appreciate that.

Thank you so very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Vice Chair Johnson.

Member Waters.

Uh thank you.

So I certainly wanted to um thank you for for coming out and for um your passion regarding uh this issue.

Um you do know mostly what you're yeah, we can be advocates, but you also know I I'm assuming you know, I just bet you do that much of what we need to do as it relates to these kinds of things is what at state level.

Right.

And so uh certainly I you know I've been in contact with some state lawmakers, and I mean I whine all the time about the thing the things that they need to make, changes they need to make in our whole tax structures a property tax system in order to help more people.

Um I recently did hear that uh I heard I read somewhere one state legislature.

She says, you know, we have got to address property tax issues for all of Michigan.

I was so happy to hear that because we are overdue for an overhaul.

Yes, you know, in this entire state.

And um, but I'm certainly willing to to be the advocate.

Um I believe that I already am.

I just don't have all the answers.

I wish I did.

I I just don't, but but I also know that we do need our partners uh at the state level.

We need them to understand a lot more about how people are really being hurt by certain things that that you described.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So but I just I just wanted to make sure that I I thank you for coming.

Thank you for that assurance.

Thank you, Member Waters, and and I will definitely again thank you for coming and speaking with us.

Um definitely looking forward to and thank you, Vice Chair Johnson, for uh your actions on following up on this, so definitely looking forward to that as well.

I am someone who I agree with my colleagues here that we that we definitely have to look at property taxes and the ways that how can we help provide that the ways for folks to get the help that they need, and not so much in a rigid way that we're just uh prohibited from helping our residents.

So I appreciate you.

Um we'll definitely follow up, and there's if you I'm sure you have heard before this committee, we've had quite a few conversation discussions around uh property taxes um here in the city.

So we'll we'll keep working on that and and hopefully we can get to some solutions here.

I appreciate that.

All right, thank you.

Thanks for being here.

All right.

Mr.

Chair, yes, I like to make a formal motion to the legislative policy division uh to request for them to evaluate what it will take to amend uh the fees and interest charged for delinquent taxes.

Um that is particularly uh the interest in fees that the county um assesses for delinquent taxes.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

There's been a motion to um have LPD to uh create a report on what it would take to change the um interest and fees in relation to um property and specifically the Wayne County fees.

Um is there without any objections that action shall be taken.

Discussion.

Oh share Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

No, I do understand that it is uh state law, um, and this is just making moving going through the motions to share with the state the challenges and concerns that our residents have that Mr.

Ramkin articulated so well.

And I anticipate that this will end up being a resolution that goes to the state asking for them to address this issue, just understanding the impact that it has.

Thank you.

Fantastic.

Thank you.

All right, without further discussion, no objections, that action shall be taken.

Thank you so much.

That will move us on under unfinished business to 6.2.

This is neighborhood enterprise zone certificate application for the rehabilitation of the residential building at 250 Elliott Street into six rental units at the Crosswinds Neighborhood Enterprise Area.

Discussion.

All right.

Mr.

Chair.

Vice Chair Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I know we have discussed this for several weeks.

There have been a number of offline conversations that have taken place as well.

I've had the opportunity to speak with Mr.

Jenkins directly.

That this came before us.

And just to be mindful, because he grew up in the city of Detroit of where we are today, where we are going as a city, noting that if the units are provided at fair market value, that the market will dictate what they are willing to pay.

I just thought the higher end of the amount that was shared with us was excessive.

Mr.

Jenkins recognizes that he noted that and he did express an interest or a willingness to reduce the uh rental rates from the number that was uh mentioned to us previously.

And so with that, Mr.

Chair, I don't have any additional questions.

I'm not sure if you all do, um, but I am prepared to make a motion.

All right.

Member Waters in the comments okay.

Uh thank you, Vice Chair Johnson.

I I I also echo your sentiments.

I think there's been conversation before this committee when it comes to NEZs, understanding the spirit of uh the policy, but also understanding where we are in the city of Detroit and making sure trying to make sure that especially the tools that we have to spur um rehabilitation in the building of homes, that we also make sure that they are in reach of our residents here in the city.

So I just wanted to echo those sentiments and um with that I'll entertain a motion on this line item.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Move to send line item 6.2 to formal with a recommendation to approve.

Uh there's been a motion to send 6.2 to formal with a recommendation to approve.

Any objections?

See no objections, 6.2 shall be sent to formal with a recommendation to approve.

Thank you so much.

All right, that'll move us on to 6.3.

Um, a memorandum uh from member waters.

Uh member submend a memorandum request information to the city of Detroit's long-term um financial obligation.

And uh entertain the motion to discuss.

Discussion.

Um we have the information.

Yeah, Mr.

Chairman, and they gotta okay.

So we can so you want me to remove this or receive and file.

Receive and file.

If there's a motion to receive and file, motion to receive and file.

There's been a motion to receive a file.

Any objections?

Um 6.3 shall be received and filed.

All right.

Now to move us on to new business 7.1, a report related to the audit of the American Rescue Plan Act of the Neighborhood Beautification Initiative Program Operations.

Um, there's been a request from the Office of the Auditor General to bring this back in three weeks.

Uh is there a motion to bring this back in three weeks?

Motion.

See any objections to bring this back in three weeks?

See no objections, 7.1 shall be brought back in three weeks.

That'll bring us to 7.2.

A submit a report relative to the 2019 Detroit City Code section of the seventh section 17-3-7.

Mandates the quarterly reporting of any revenue received by the city for the use of facilities, personnel, services, or resources of the city's public safety departments in conjunction with or in support of a large special event for which a council approved permit was required with the anticipated actual attendance and access excess over 1500 persons.

Um is there a motion to discuss 17?

I mean 7.2 motion to discuss.

All right, I believe um we have uh Mr.

Negler.

Good afternoon.

Yes, good afternoon, Councilmember Campbell and members of your committee.

Um this is a charter uh required um report uh so that quarterly we we produce this report showing um the incremental charges that DPD and D F D get from providing support to various community events.

Um I'm joined by um two two members of our um Office of Departmental Financial Services, the agency CFO for uh the police department is Mr.

Never Sarko, and the agency CFO for um Detroit Fire Department is um Ms.

Nicole Fambro.

So if if I could ask that they would be promoted, they they are very you know, since they're integrally involved with those two departments, they could better answer any specific questions council uh may have.

But um again, I know this council's you know new, but this is a report we've been producing, you know, every every quarter since it was required by the um by the council.

Thank you.

Yeah, and I see Mr.

Nazarko now.

Thank you so much.

And if you can just for the folks listening and for the members of council, if you can just give a I know it's um her quick overview, but just a quick overview of this, and then we can see if members have questions.

Yes.

Yeah, if I could, Mr.

Chair, I'd like to defer to Nevras since he's presented on this before, and I see Mr.

Nazarko on on the line again.

He's the agency CFO for the Detroit Police Department.

Absolutely.

Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair.

Uh thank you for uh the opportunity to talk about the special events uh for uh city of Detroit uh third quarter of 2025 starting uh October 1st and ending December 31st, where DPD and Detroit Fire Department have assisted with those special events to comply with the uh ordinance uh council ordinance as Mr.

Naglik mentioned.

Uh to uh the honorable council uh we have submitted the report and uh for the uh third quarter or uh actually uh second quarter of 2025 uh December we brought uh or uh uh DPD charged uh eight hundred ninety-three thousand uh three hundred three dollars uh along with uh together with the uh fire department.

So out of that three uh eight hundred and ninety-three thousand dollars, eight hundred and seventy-four thousand uh was billed by DPD for uh DPD support, and then eighteen thousand eight hundred forty dollars uh was billed uh invoiced by Detroit Fire Department.

All the events that took place from October to uh end of December are uh detailed in the uh spreadsheet that was submitted to you.

Just a quick note that uh this uh this fiscal year for the first two quarters we uh have done uh slightly better than the uh uh two quarters of the previous uh uh fiscal year.

Uh so uh again uh this is the report, and uh if you want me to share that or uh someone from your office, uh Mr.

Chair to share it on your screen.

Uh okay, uh other than that, uh if you have any questions, I'll be happy to to answer them.

Thank you.

Thank you all so much.

And and if we can just formality, if uh all three folks can state your name for the record, please.

Uh yes, Never Nazarko, uh agency CFO for Detroit Police Department.

Thank you.

And um, my name is John Naglik.

I'm Chief Deputy CFO uh finance director and controller for the city.

Thank you.

And then last but not least.

Oh I think you may be mute uh muted.

Yeah.

Okay.

Maybe so.

Okay.

All right.

Um we may be having audio issues there.

All right.

Well, we'll go to questions.

Any questions from members of the committee?

Vice Chair Johnson.

Mr.

Chair, thank you.

Um, the one question that I have is I'm just wondering if we track what the actual expenses are to provide support for these um major events.

So do we know whether it is costs for police officers or firefighters?

Um, if it is setting up the event um or doing a walkthrough or anything like that, do we track what the actual cost is to the departments for these events?

Uh through the chair.

Uh for the DPD side, uh, the amounts that you see there, uh, councilwoman, uh, are the actual expenses for the officers' time for the vehicles and a uh administration uh administrative fee.

Uh to my knowledge, we do not charge for setting up the event or you know, do walkthroughs, whatnot.

This is actually you know, the the actual cost down to the penny because as you see, almost all the events have the you know, the first event, for example, Red Wings gains on October 1st, 2025 is 44,525.44 cents, means that we detail them uh so our invoice to them has the actual cost incurred for that special event.

Okay, thank you.

And does that also include um track traffic enforcement?

If there are uh officers that are out helping to assist with moving traffic if uh through the chair again, if it's in the normal course of business and the traffic enforcement is happening on that area, regardless of special event, no.

Uh the the uh organizer of special event requests from DPD uh exact uh uh number of officers and vehicles that they want us to assist.

So uh the answer is that if it's a normal course that they were scheduled to work there on that day, no, otherwise, yes.

Okay, thank you.

And I'm not sure if DFD if it's the same.

We we actually cannot hear you.

Uh if I can take a shot at DFD, uh mostly DFD charges for uh permits uh that they issue uh for the attend for the event to be attended.

That's why you see some of the charges are stable charges like 554 dollars.

If it's anything over and above that, uh then uh the charge uh is different.

But most of DFD charges as you see in the great scheme of things compared to DPD, DFD has only $18,000 for the entire quarter.

That mostly again comes from the permits.

But I'll let Nicole if if she can come back online.

No, no, still can't hear you.

Okay, I think I think I understood it.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Uh member Waters.

All right, thank you.

So good afternoon.

Hello.

Nobody wants to say hi.

All right.

All right, so um looking at the um police deployment uh with over $874,000 in DPD services bill in just three months.

What is the impact of neighborhood patrol availability when officers are redirected on these large for these large-scale events?

Uh through the chair, uh that is an uh organizational question that uh becomes to DPD, uh meaning that uh the information I have on the finance side and the invoicing billing and receiving uh accounts receivable.

Uh I would not be able to answer that question, but I definitely can take that down, uh councilwoman, and pass it on to the chief's office.

All right.

Oh, can you answer this one then?

Maybe um DFD revenue is notably low, only about two percent of the total.

So our event organizers hiring private emergency medical services instead of uh city resources, and if so, does the city still remain maintained oversight of those uh safety plans?

Is that another one for the department?

That is for DFD through the chair again.

Uh my understanding is that Miss Ms.

Fambro is still not online.

However, I can tell you this that the DFD supervises the event and the safety through the permit issuance.

Uh however, the ambulance services uh are from the private uh vendors.

All right, well, let me see.

Um let me go to another one.

This is a year over year.

This is regarding the year year over year decline.

Um the total large event uh revenue at the mid-year mark of fiscal year 26 is roughly about 1.1 million lower than it was at the mid-year mark for fiscal year uh 25.

Uh 1.5 million versus what 2.6 million.

So is this due to a change in the number of permitted events, or were there massive one-time events in early fiscal year 25 that aren't recurring?

Yes, I'm never cycle take this.

So I'm through the chair to member waters.

So the report, we're only through two quarters of the current fiscal year.

So this report is showing the full year of fiscal 25 was 2.663 million, and it's 1.5 million for only half the year.

So as Mr.

Nazarko said at the beginning, we're actually up for the first six months of this fiscal year versus the first six months of last fiscal year, but the confusion is probably that um um fiscal 25 shows the full year, and obviously it's color-coded so that you see how much came in each quarter.

Yes.

Okay, all right.

I tell you what, I think the main two I needed you to answer.

I have to take them to the department.

So that'll be it, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, it will be if we could get that information, or we could reach out to the department to get the information on the impacts of operations during these major events that will be great.

I don't know if um Mr.

Washington is still on the Mr.

Chair.

I'll pass that the information uh to the department as well.

Thank you.

Any further questions?

All right, and I have uh my questions have been asked.

So with that, thank you all so much.

Um is there a motion to receive and file this report?

Motion.

All right, any objections?

All right, this uh 7.2 will be received and filed.

Thank you.

That'll move us on to 7.3.

Um, this is a uh neighborhood enterprise zone certificate application for the rehabilitation of a house at 8133 Kirchaville in the West Village Neighborhood Enterprise Zone Area.

And Mr.

Gulag, good afternoon.

Good afternoon, Mr.

Chair Chris Gulag, CPC staff.

All right.

If you you can go right ahead with this one.

Liz Cardwell.

Good afternoon.

Hi, thank you for having me.

If you can just state your name for the record as well, Elizabeth Cardwell.

Thank you.

I have a brief um slideshow that I would need permission to uh share.

All right.

Um thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Can you see my screen?

Yes.

Thank you.

CPC staff submitted a report giving background to this request and uh resolution for your consideration.

This is uh located on Kirchhoff.

Uh this red dot shows the location.

It is the NAZ request is for a certificate to rehab an existing house.

It's on the north side of Kirchhoff, two blocks east of Van Dyke.

Zooming in closer, you can see it's on the north side of Kirchhoff.

Um, just east of the um Parker Duran.

This shows the uh 3D view of the of the structure, existing structure, and it shows the house.

It's located in the um West Village NEZ that was created approved by council back in November of 2020.

At that time, a developer Steve Flum, I think asked for an NEZ area uh to support new housing and rehab in the West Village area.

This map on your right here kind of shows a blue turquoise line, which outlines the um the uh West Village NEZ.

So it kind of snakes it's south of Kirchhoff, then it goes north of Kirchville up to Charleville.

It contains about 87 acres.

The petitioners for this uh NEZ certificate are Elizabeth Cardwell and Nicole Shackleford.

Um we believe the building was originally built um in 1928 as a single family single family house, but but then it was eventually converted to a duplex.

And now the petitioners want to convert it back to a single family house for them to live in.

Uh so it's two and a half stories, about 1700 square feet.

Um so records show it was it was last sold in November just recently in November 2025 for 170,000.

And um the assessed value, um the record show from 25 is about 43,000 and a taxable value about 2,000.

Um so the petitioners proposed to um restore the single family house, um, create four bedrooms.

Uh the total rehab costs about 169,000.

So it's a major amount of major upgrade, uh new windows, plumbing, electrical HVAC.

Uh regarding parking, there's no garage on the site, but there's parking off the back alley.

Uh regarding accessibility, the indicate uh uh the petitioners are going to live there, but they do propose practical accessibility considerations, including wider interior circulation and modernized modernized bathrooms.

So in conclusion, this is confirmed as being in the West Village NEC zone.

Staff was recommending approval, and a resolution is submitted for your consideration.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Is there a motion to discuss line item 7.3?

Motion.

All right.

Any um folks for the member um for the petitioner, anything that you would like to add?

Just a couple of questions.

Okay, I got you.

Happy to answer any questions.

Uh thank you.

Uh member waters.

All right.

Um thank you.

Um converted an existent duplex back to a single family home.

Um while we support neighborhood stabilization, uh we're also focus on housing density.

So can you speak to why you chose to eliminate uh a renter unit rather than maintaining the property as a duplex?

Yes.

Um in the state in which we purchased it in uh November, it was not uh viable to live in as a duplex.

It had sat vacant for some time prior to us purchasing it.

Um the cost of converting it back to a duplex functionally in compliance with codes was too exorbitant for us to afford to be frank.

Okay.

All right, then just one other quick question.

Then financially exorbitant.

Okay.

Um given the um significant 169,000 dollar investment in structural plumbing, electrical and HVAC systems.

Um, have you prioritized hiring Detroit HIC quarter contractors or Detroit certified businesses for this work?

Yes, we have.

You have yes, you've identified some.

Uh yes, we had to um in order to uh begin the application process.

Oh okay.

Well, I'm happy to hear that.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

Thank you, Member Waters.

Vice Chair Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, so in regards to the duplex, are we saying that it was not legally a duplex that someone had just converted it?

I am not sure as to the legality.

Um but it did not seem to have been uh it had not been functioning as a duplex in some time.

Um was not uh yeah, I I am not sure the house sat vacant for almost 10 years prior to us purchasing it.

Um so hard to say if it was legal in its origin, it was certainly not legal as a duplex by the time it we got uh control of the property.

Thank you, Mr.

Gulag.

I wonder if you have um any sense of whether or not it was a legal duplex.

Is it zoned R2?

Student Chair, uh actually the house is zone B4, which is commercial, yeah, because it's on Kirchable.

And I'd have we'd have to, I'm not sure if it was legally converted to a duplex.

I assume it was done, you know, sometimes in the last 50 50 years.

Um, but I'm not sure if that was legally done.

Thank you.

And Mr.

Gulag, do you know if the prior owner owned it for 50 years or how long they actually owned the property prior to the transaction that happened in November?

Chair, uh no council member.

I I'm not sure the uh well, previous owners, yeah.

I don't believe that they owned it for 50 years.

I believe it was owned by someone else in between.

I'm happy to verify that information if that's what the council would like.

Um I was just curious.

Um trying to understand wins the last time the property uncapped.

I believe it was prior to 2010.

The folks that we purchased the house from had bought up a fair amount of property in and around in the city, um, both in this neighborhood and in the Corktown neighborhood.

Um around 2010.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Vice Chair Johnson.

Um, I just uh again, my all my courses have been answered.

I just I have one more.

Um, do you all plan to be in this home for long term?

Yes, um, we do.

I will say I have been renting very close to this home for almost the past 10 years.

So I'm very familiar with the neighborhood, and this is continued or this is intended to be our permanent residence for the foreseeable future.

Okay.

All right.

Uh that's all for my questions.

Is there a motion?

Chair.

Oh, yes.

Vice Chair Johnson.

Thank you.

I just have another quick question because when I Googled the address, I'm not sure that I pulled up this house or if it was a different house.

Um is there a vacant lot next to the property?

There is a vacant lot.

Um, yes, next to the property.

Um, as well as a standing structure on the other side.

Is that the restaurant?

Uh those are across the street.

Oh, okay.

All right.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Is there a motion on 7.3?

Um move to send line item 7.3 to formal with recommendation to approve.

There's a motion to send 7.3 to formal with a recommendation to approve.

Any objections.

7.3 shall be sent to formal with a recommendation to approve.

Thank you all so much.

The move us on to 7.4, a neighborhood enterprise zone certificate application for the rehab of a single family house at 9727 Dundee Street in the Narden Park in EZ area.

Um is there a motion to discuss line item 7.4?

Some of it.

All right, Mr.

Gulag.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Chris Gulag, CPC staff.

We're also joined by the petitioner, Dolores McKinney, who's on online as well.

Good afternoon.

If you can just state your name for the record.

Good afternoon, Chairman and members of the budget finance committee.

My name is Dolores McKinney, principal.

I'm developer eminence group for 9727 Dundee.

Thank you.

Thanks for being here.

Uh Mr.

Gulag, it's all yours.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh yes, uh staff submitted a memorandum and a resolution for your consideration for an NEZ certificate for this property.

Uh it's located in the Narden Park area.

It's north of Grand River, east of Livernoy, so shown as the red dot on the screen.

It's on the west side of Dundee, uh just west of Narden Park.

You can see it here.

There's uh two houses to the um next to the property in the vacant land next to it as well.

So zooming in closer, it's an existing house that's been vacant.

Um so Narden Park NEZ was created fairly recently by approved by city council in June of 2023.

And uh the planning department at the time petitioned the council to create that um NEZ uh on behalf of the new era development, which Dolores McKinney represents.

And at that at the time, and the total NEZ is about 12.6 acres.

Um so at the time when they applied for the NEZ, they were proposing to renovate uh existing buildings in the neighborhood and then to construct some new structures as well.

And the NEZ would support both the rehab and the new construction.

Um so as we stated, the petitioner is new era community group.

Um the house in particular is owned by Eminence Group LLC, uh, which is represented by uh Dolores McKinney, who's uh has started the past few years renovating several properties in the Narden Park neighborhoods.

So here's an image of the site is I believe it's currently boarded up.

Um presently has a one and a half story single family house containing about 4,700 square feet.

Uh city records show an assessed value of $600 and a taxable value of 412.

Um so Miss McKinney is proposing to a full renovation of the building, uh with creating three bedrooms.

They uh she proposed to invest about $54,000.

They're proposed they're hoping to rent the entire house for 400 1400 a month.

So some of the major improvements include windows, doors, roofing, flooring, interior finishing, totaling 54,000.

The petitioner indicates this proposed rent is about 80 percent of area median income.

Uh regarding parking, the property does have an existing driveway off of Dundee.

Uh regarding accessibility, the petitioner indicates there's a half bath on the lower level, and they plan to have build a ramp at the rear of the structure.

So staff has uh confirmed this is in the um NEZ, and staff was recommending approval and resolution is submitted for your consideration.

And here's an image of how the house they hope to have the house um when it's finished.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

All right.

Uh and the questions from members of the committee.

Are uh for um Mr.

Lawrence, do you have anything you would like to add?

Ms.

McKinney, apologies.

No problem.

The square footage is wrong on the internet.

It's about 14 to it's about 15, 60 to 1600 square feet.

It's not 4,000 square feet.

Um, but everything that else that he did say is what we're planning to do.

Thank you.

Ms.

Chairman, remember Warner?

Um, just a couple of quick questions.

Um how many properties do you own?

This is the only one that Eminence Groups owns.

The only one.

Oh, okay.

All right.

Then the next question is mute.

Thank you.

No problem.

Thank you.

Uh Vice Chair Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, can we clarify that?

So this is New Era Community Group.

Yeah, they were the petitioners for us, but it's Eminence Group that owns this property.

Okay.

And so, all right, so you indicated you don't own any others within the boundaries of the NEZ district.

In the city of Detroit, we don't own anything else in Michigan.

Eminence Group isn't just in the city, I mean the state of Michigan, Detroit specifically.

Are you looking to acquire any additional property in the area?

So one of the things that we have realized is that, and you guys really hit on that, is the taxes, and we believe that taxes can be better um abated by building on vacant lots.

And so we have Eminence Group has gotten a couple multi-units approved on on the 40 by 60 lots through planning, but we think we need to get you know some of these existing homes that were on the demo list.

All of these were on the demo list, even the ones that New Air is doing was on the demo list prior.

So our goal was initially to come in and and do the rehab of the ones that were on the demo list because it takes a long time to get them down, and then maybe potentially with the right funding, do some new ground up.

So there is some plans to be able to do that in the future, yes.

Okay, thank you.

Did Eminence Group purchase this particular property from the land bank or from the city?

From the land bank, yes.

And do you know if the the land around the property is owned by the land bank?

It is.

Um, quite a bit of it is owned by the land bank.

I mean, Norton Park, we have over, and we really want to say we've adopted that area.

I've even moved over there.

Um, but there's just there's probably 70% vacant land.

And I I our goal is to that's how you bring back a community is by populating those vacant lots.

Thank you for that.

And how long has Eminence Group owned this particular property?

Um for a little over a year.

Okay.

Um, and and I'm not sure what the value is on that property, but the property taxes will be or have already uncapped prior to this NEZ application.

Okay.

Is that correct, Mr.

Gulach?

Uh well, through the chair, well, it they may have uncapped, but the sale price was so low that the taxable value is still quite low.

Now, when they apply for the uh NEZ certificate to the state, the state will pick which year they're frozen.

So they might have been frozen, they might be frozen in from 2025.

So it's the taxable is still quite low.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

And last question.

Um are you aware of New Era Community Group is doing any additional development in the area?

Because I'm just wondering how uh Eminence Group selected this particular area.

So let me tell you, so so I do uh understand their plan.

New Air came into this area in 19 and 20, and and then there was no one doing development at that time in Narden Park, no one literally.

And today I bet you there have been more than 17 rehabs.

There's gonna be a new live tech coming in, and and everyone that's doing work over there have said it's from the catalyzation of what new air brought to the table, and they came in with their own money.

I think when they did this NEZ, New Air had come in with almost a half million dollars of their own money when they did their inaugural um development at 9706 Narden, which didn't get an NEZ.

Um, but I I it had they have really catalyzed development.

We've come behind them because we see and we we understand that the more developers you have in one centralized location brings back communities, and so that's the reason why we purchased this one because we saw the work that they were doing, and other people have done the same thing over there.

We've we can count daily uh the amount of developers that have come in that community in the last four or five years that weren't there.

Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

Uh and you you said it best, it it takes one, it takes one developer to come in and start activating um land that has not been activated for a long time.

I always tell people um that if they are interested, we'd be happy to walk them through the process to do development in the city of Detroit.

So glad you are um taking on this project.

We appreciate it.

Um I hope that it is, you know, it becomes what it is that you'd like to see, and that you will continue to be able to support residents in the city of Detroit as we really focus on pushing down the AMI for uh rental property throughout this city.

So thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Chairman.

Thank you.

Thank you, Vice Chair Johnson, member waters.

Um I just want to understand um how did you come up with uh the $1,400 for the rent?

And is that is that market rate?

Market rate for this is a this is a three to four bedroom, so it's it's the market rate is a little bit higher than that.

Um what we did is we did look at the AMI and we're working with VA and some other folks, and this is how we determine the number that we felt for this size home was going to be um in the affordability range for the value and what they're getting for the size home and that's in this family size, you know, three of a four-person family could definitely live in this home, very comfortable.

It's beautiful home, it really is.

Well, I'm very great grateful for the the family size because we need we need a lot more of those.

We really do.

Uh parents don't have anywhere for them and their children to live that's affordable.

Um so uh so thank you for that.

No, you chairman.

Thank you, Member Waters.

Uh I I uh I echo what folks have said and also think about Norton Park that was formerly in District 7 and now district five, um, but also hearing from folks in their area wanting to see um more activity um in a place that you know before the foreclosure crisis, like many neighborhoods in Detroit that was thriving and had many multifamily houses and and family-sized homes as well.

So I'm grateful to see this this rehab happening in one of those structures.

And as you all have talked about, see uh one person coming in and seeing a um a influx of projects.

I hope that this project also will bring even more folks for for that to come.

Um do you have some virtual chair Johnson?

Yep.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Just uh uh an additional question.

Are you all um willing to um accept someone who has a housing choice voucher to rent the property once it's completed?

Absolutely.

Of course.

Um I'll tell you, I did my first um housing development in 1984 in Detroit, and it was affordable, and that's always been our mission, whether we're selling it or whether we're renting it, is to make sure that everything is within the affordability range, doesn't matter how you get your income.

I think he should still be uh, you know, either a homeowner or a renter.

So our our our real goal is home ownership, but with the market right now, it changed our strategy.

So we want to definitely rent in the affordability range to people who have vouchers um and just want you know good opportunity, we'll take care of the properties and have a good place to live.

We we got out everything we do, so it's you know, it gives you the um it gives you the interior value of what you see downtown.

We've done several open houses with new era, and you'd be surprised at the people that come in and say this should be downtown, and we constantly tell them no, it should be in your community.

The mayor has come out several times to support us, uh, you know, Chase Bank, Bank of America, and so we just have to keep the leverage and keep the the foot, the um pedal to the metal because like you said, when people see the goodness going on, they want to join in.

Awesome thank you uh Miss McKinney I do just want to um lift up the fact that um a housing choice voucher can be utilized for a mortgage I've had conversations with the Detroit Housing Commission.

They are telling me because I was ready to stand up on the soapbox uh to make sure that they were supporting that program and working with uh families that have a voucher to for those that are interested in and wanting to um own a property for them to be able to walk people through that process they say they do that um although they have a small number of families that have actually gone through that process so um we'll continue to advocate for that we'll continue to have those conversations with the Detroit Housing Commission and really um provide that support for uh families that have vouchers to be able to with that voucher for it to go towards their mortgage so um certainly do appreciate again the work that you are doing um appreciate you seeing Detroiters for for who we are um and provide an opportunities for them so thank you thank you Mr.

Chair no thank you I want to say this and we have had the housing commission to come out and talk about that I I don't think those conversations are becoming deep enough but that's really where the solutions coming getting Detroiters in home ownership positions that are on the vouchers program so if that's something that we can get support on with council we're ready we've met with them twice um a a year or two ago and we constantly try to see how we can move that voucher program into ownership.

Thank you for that um and and you know again we've had conversations and they say that they do it I'm not sure to what level so um what we'll do I'll ask my team for us to work with the legislative policy division to pull together a resolution to encourage them to um make sure that they are sharing the program with families um and make sure that they're walking them through the process so more people can step up and uh own their home as opposed to the voucher just continuing to to provide for rent thank you thank you very much thank you Mr.

Chair thank you all right uh is there uh a motion to approve 7.4 motion this is my motion to um approve to approve 7.4 and send it to formal any objections all right is it let me just is there a motion to approve 7.4 and sends a formal a recommendation to approve all right uh any objections all right 7.4 will be sent to formal with a recommendation to approve thank you so much thank you that'll move us on to 7.5 um this is a resolution um uh information on the see of detroit's long-term financial obligations and uh request from request from member waters uh is there a motion to discuss line item 7.5 um discussion i we already received and filed it no we received and filed the record the um resolution requesting it this is the actual okay on this actual report yes motion to receive and file all right and is there more uh the uh discussion with the um discussion all right yeah uh we have folks from lpd to go over uh the report if you oh i thought they had changed their mind okay great all right motion to discuss oh you said that already i said that already no problem mr crawley uh thank you mr chair afternoon city council so in a nutshell the city detroit has about 1.5 billion dollars in outstanding bonds um 500 million of that is um unlimited tanks general general obligation bonds utters which are paid the debt service on those bonds death service meaning the principal and interest uh is paid from the debt millage that citizens pay and right now the dead mill is about four meals um two or three years ago dead mills was about eight or nine meals so um it has gone down uh which which is good it's admirable um and then about one billion of the outstanding debt represents limited tax bonds um and those bonds are paid through the general fund the uh general fund is secured the revenues from general fund are uh are secured to pay back these bonds um you will see the debt service um of these bonds and the um the debt uh the debt deperment uh so so when you get the budget from the mayor of seffield on march the ninth uh there's there's a uh a specific debt service like department and we will report on that during the budget process um and then in terms of revenue bonds the only revenue bond that the city has is about 77 million dollars um this is a revenue bond from the uh Michigan transportation fund

Uh so when you get the budget from the mayor of Sheffield on March the 9th, uh there's that there's a uh specific debt service like the permit, and we will report on that during the budget process.

Um and then in terms of revenue bonds, the only revenue bond that the city of Detroit has is about 77 million dollars.

Um this is a revenue bond from the uh Michigan Transportation Fund.

Those bonds and the proceeds of those bonds have been used for uh street improvements and road uh improvements, and those bonds um are paid off from the uh gas and weight tax revenue that we get from the state, and we use you know some of those revenues to pay off the debt service on these bonds.

Uh City Detroit used to have revenue bonds uh outstanding on its books from the water and source department, but you know, coming out of bankruptcy, um the water department um basically assigned their debt uh over to the Great Lakes Water Authority, and so uh whenever the water department wants to issue bonds, they're issued through the Great Lakes Water Authority.

And then there was a question about um pension, and so right now there's about 1.6 billion dollars pension liability that's on the city of Detroit's books, um, and that represents our payment to retirees over uh the next 27 years.

Um and the the pension payment is about 160 million dollars um coming out of the city, about half of that is from the general fund, the other half is being paid from the retiree protection fund, and we'll also get more into that during the budget process.

And there was a question about um our you know, are there our vendors and other outstanding creditors that I do from coming out of bankruptcy?

And um the answer is basically yes.

Um, in terms of vendors per se, there's no really vendors that we still owe, but there are uh there are some uh unsecured creditors that we owe coming out of bankruptcy about um 3800 of unsecured uh bankruptcy claims, and uh to this date though, we have basically settled about 95 percent of those um unsecured claims, and my understanding is that the remainder will be settled by June 30th of 2026, you know, this year.

Um and the city issue bonds called B notes and other uh bonds during coming out of bankruptcy to pay off many of these creditors, and we we enumerate that in our report.

We also added um information.

This was not requested by member waters, but we thought that this would be important for the uh public to know that there is a legal debt margin.

It's like the city's credit card in terms of how much we can borrow.

So just like your you know, master card, credit card visa, whatever, you know, you have say a hundred uh uh a thousand dollar limit.

Um so the city of Detroit has basically a limit based on 10% of the state equalized value of the city, and um that's about $2.9 billion, and based on our outstanding debt, we still have about one about $2.1 billion available to borrow, to be borrowed.

Um, but also state law allows you to include in that legal debt margin calculation any uh bond that was um based on dealing with a financial you know financial um emergency.

And so of course, coming out of bankruptcy, we had uh some bonds issued to help us deal with our financial emergency, and so that increased our ability to borrow to about 4.4 billion, and that's under state law.

Lastly, um the city of Detroit does have a debt have have a debt policy, and that debt policy is to uh ensure that we're not over borrowing, basically.

And um the debt policy says that the debt service on all the bonds cannot exceed 15% of governmental fund expenditures, and we're at about 9%.

So I think that's that's a that's a good measure.

Also, um the general fund debt service is not to exceed 10% of the general fund expenditures, and we're at about 5%.

And then lastly, another metric that we look at, all of the debt um as compared to the general fund revenue, it should not exceed 120% of that, and we have about 91%.

Um, and then one more measure, we look at all the debt as it relates to the full value of our uh assessed value, and it should be less than 10%, and we have 5%.

So that's why you know all of this have led to obtaining uh better uh credit ratings from the rating agencies moving forward because they can see that the city has you know policies to ensure that we're not over borrowing.

So uh that's it in a nutshell.

Thank you, Mr.

Crowley.

Um questions from members on the committee member Waters.

Um thank you, and thank you, um Mr.

Corley and LPD for generating uh this report.

Um I see uh UTGO bonds, and there was another type of bond that I saw.

It could you explain so that those that are listening the difference in between between those bonds and how what's the estimated time that you say it will take us to pay oh yeah, the other one, uh 70 points uh 76.5 and outstanding revenue bond obligations.

So those two are different types of bonds.

If we could explain to people what what those differences are, and how long do you think that it will take us to pay this off?

Well, I I don't see that listed here, but what do you think?

Yeah, yeah, thank you for that, um Waters through the chair.

Um and also just to remind the council and the citizens, every quarter, the um Office of the Chief Financial Officer shares with City Council a quarterly report on outstanding debt, and also uh in that report, they give a status of the pension payments to our pension systems.

Um, but the unlimited tax general obligation bonds or UTGO um debt, uh the debt service is paid from the property tax millage.

And so when, you know, as part of your property taxes that you pay, um there's there's a four-mill, you know, the total property tax millage for citizens that are um residents uh and they they own their their property.

The millage, the total millage is about 67 meals.

Okay.

Four meals of that is related to the debt service millage.

And that the revenue from that pays off the debt service associated with the UTGO bonds.

Okay.

The limited uh tax general obligation bonds are those bonds that and then I guess another key uh differentiation different different um aspect for the UTGO bonds, those are voter-approved bonds.

And uh and I think it's also important to indicate that you know whenever we issue bonds, that's going to pay for capital improvements, uh, we you know, or for demolition, uh, we go to the voters to ask for bond authorization.

Right.

Um for the limited tax general obligation bonds, there's not a need to go to the voters because we're using um general fund revenue as a pledge to pay off those those bonds.

Um and we've we've used the limited tax geo bonds um on a fairly you know limited basis.

Um the the main debt that we have when it comes to LTGO bonds is when we came out of bankruptcy.

You know, we issued um about 450 million dollars of limited tax GO bonds to set up what was called um VIBAs.

That's that's voluntary employee benefit associations.

Those were set up, one for the general retirees and one for the police and fire retirees.

And um, you know, as we all know, unfortunately, coming out of bankruptcy, not only were the pension um uh benefits cut, the retiree health care was completely cut.

And so the VIBA was to was to so-called come up with a way to help the retirees until they reach the age of 65, because when you be when you turn 65, you can receive you know more health care benefits from Medicare.

So between the age of whenever you retire up into 65, the VIBA only gave you a monthly stipend.

And the monthly state cycle is like, you know, 1200.

So that's nothing, right?

When it comes to many people have to pay their own premium hospitalization.

And so let me take that back.

No, the monthly statement was about 115, 125 a month, but for the whole year, you would get about 15, 1700.

So your monthly statements are like 115, 125.

That's minuscule, right?

That's not gonna help the most people, if any, to pay their premiums for health care.

But that was supposed to somewhat mitigate, you know, the cost of paying um health care premiums for the retirees.

Um now, once a retiree reaches 65 years old, you can get, of course, Medicare.

That covers a number of your hospitalization and health care costs.

Um, but also the VIBA is paying for the premium for additional health care that a retiree can get, you know, like through Blue Cross Blue Shield, through HAP, whatever, it will pay for that premium.

But again, you have to reach 65 years old for that.

So the VIBAs were set up, coming out of bankruptcy to basically help with health care issues.

Not nearly enough for those that were under 65 years old, obviously.

Um the revenue bond, again, that was for being able to do a lot of the sidewalk improvement, street improvement, particularly in the commercial corridors.

Um that's why that bond was issued.

It was 124 million dollars about five or six years ago.

So we're now down to about 77 million dollars.

Um, and again, the debt service on that is paid from the gas and weight taxes that we get from the state, the street money, and that's in that's in the street fund.

And so we'll talk about that during the budget process when DPW comes before you.

And actually, um the city of Detroit got more money coming out of the role, the roles bill that was a part of the um state budget that was passed back in October.

The city of Detroit did um um receive more money, and and again, that'll be discussed on the budget process.

All right.

Well, well, thank you for that.

I I want to point out to people you know, the Medicare piece, you have 65 years and older, but also if you're disabled, um, no matter what age you are, you can qualify for for Medicare.

That's true.

Um the you know how people have come down here talking about the bonds, the bonds bonds, and saying we were doing issuing bonds illegally and so forth.

Um I want to address that one once more.

Um at least um and I and I'm assuming they're talking about the UTGO bonds.

I can't remember what kind of bonds they were talking about at the time when they came down to talk about it.

But it was the UTGO, yeah.

So but once a people approve the bond, why would we have to go back to them again to ask for permission?

We we are now in a position to issue such a bond, right?

So um because what they're yelling and screaming about it, it's it's sometimes can be confusing, not just for me, but for for residents, period, you know, uh basically saying to them that you know we're doing some things that are that are illegal and so forth.

So and I'm not asking you to to address the legal perspective of things, but but certainly just from a financial perspective and and what what the the bond um actually does, what's allowed.

Yeah, so um I think it's I think it's important to indicate that all of the bond authorization that were voted by the voters, and the last bond authorization was for the 2050 million dollars in bonds that was issued for demolition.

Um, and that was you know a couple years ago.

Um and um we've issued all of those bonds.

So now there's no more bond authorization.

If we want to do um a capital improvement project for the museums, if we want to do capital improvements um in the neighborhoods for you know recreation centers or if we want to um you know build more parks or improve the parks or whatever, we do not have any more bond authorization.

We will have to go back to the voters and ask them for authorization.

And this year, you know, this is an even year, 2026.

So City Council will be receiving a capital agenda by November 1st from Mayor Sheffield and her administration.

That capital agenda is gonna have plans in it.

You know, it's not a budget, it's it's good, but it's gonna have plans in terms of what capital needs are out there, you know, um throughout the city um departments.

You know, for instance, the library.

We know that the library um needs a lot of money just to upgrade the main library on Wardworth, you know, and so um, and and obviously there's other needs that other departments will share in that capital agenda.

Right now, we have no bond authorization.

We cannot issue any bonds to address those needs, those capital needs that's gonna come before you in the capital agenda, which means that Mayor Sheffield and administration is gonna have to appeal to City Council at some point to go back to the voters and ask for more bonding authorization.

I kind of figured that.

When that's gonna occur, you know, we don't know.

Yeah.

Um, but I'm just saying, you know, at some point, you know, you you have to issue bonds at some point to address you know major um expenditures like capital improvements.

We know that fire stations throughout the city of Detroit are in need of major renovations.

And you know, say Detroit, we're dealing with um you know, infrastructure and buildings that are very old.

Let me interrupt you right there.

Because I was certainly going to ask you about our aging infrastructure.

Um I think about what happened down in Southwest Detroit with the uh uh the floods and so forth, you know.

Uh and I know that it's all of that, those kinds of things where we are probably this closest thing to just breaking uh because they're so old and they need to be replaced.

Yeah.

So I'd certainly hope if if the mayor sends something to us that includes that, especially there's so much uncertainty in terms of what we're able to get from our partners both in Lancing and on the federal side.

Yeah.

We we we we just don't know, so we have to identify ways to get some things done.

Yeah, so this budget process, you know, all budget budget processes are important.

I think this one is really important because of issues like that.

We know we have a lot of aging infrastructure.

So when the water service department comes before you, you know, that's your opportunity time to ask, you know, Director Gary Brown, what are what are your capital improvement um um plans?

You know, um, are you working with GLIWA to maybe come up with additional um bond you know sales in the future to address you know a lot of these um uh this this old infrastructure?

Um so yeah, yeah, you you city council use the budget process to to get the information that you need to give you a greater comfort level on the challenges that we have moving forward.

Yeah.

All right.

I'll leave it at that, Ms.

Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you.

Thank you, Member Warders.

Thank you, Mr.

Corley.

I will say I we we talked about this before in conversation, just thinking about how we prepare or preparing ourselves if there were to be economic downturn or a further one that we're seeing and andor lower revenue.

So definitely hear you, Mr.

Corley and using the budget uh proceedings to get down to that.

Um but especially with the with our bonds and the the over the having that one billion dollars in debt, that's something that's on my mind to make sure that we we're doing all that we can to protect um the city and the services that our residents are dependent on for sure.

Yes.

And fortunately, Mr.

Chair, you know, you know, as you know, I'm sure you probably have heard that you know, we do have a rainy day fund and we have 150 million dollars in that ready day fund, um, which is pretty good.

That's about 12 percent of our general fund expenditures, best practices says it should be about 15%.

So we have 12%.

Uh the state requires us to have five percent set aside for a rainy day fund, so so it's it's pretty decent.

You know, we have 12%.

We also have you know the retiree protection fund to help us to make our pension payments.

Um so, you know, ready agencies have given us some favorable, you know, outlooks because of those, because of those.

But as you say, Mr.

Chair, you know, um the fact that we are receiving less federal dollars and potentially state, you know, dollars, especially in terms of grants, it does mean that we have to rely more on our own resources.

And um, you know, as you know, tomorrow is going to be a community whole on the um idea of a local option sales tax.

Uh that's gonna be at 2 30 tomorrow.

It's gonna be a presenter from the citizens research council.

Um and they're gonna present you know the the concept of a local option sales tax and the local option emissions tax.

Um that you know that could help to further the diversify uh and raise more revenue for the city, but you know, as you're here tomorrow, you know, this it's challenging to get to get that.

You need state, you know, you need maybe both.

I know one of them, I think it's a sales tax.

You need a uh a change in the state constitution, you know.

You you you need a state bill passed, you know, that becomes law, the governor will sign off on, then the uh council has to um um pass an ordinance, and then you have to go to the voters.

That's what we did with the casino tax revenue, you know, back in the day before casinos came.

We we had to go through those hurdles.

Um but but I think it's you know, and I don't want to preempt tomorrow, but you know, many cities, many cities have their own sales tax.

Many cities throughout the country have their own entertainment tax.

Why not Detroit?

So, but I don't want to preempt tomorrow.

Well, thank you, Mr.

Crowley.

All right, thank you so much.

There's been a motion to receive and file um this report uh 7.5.

Any objections?

All right, um 7.5 will be receiving filed.

Thank you so much.

That'll move us on to 7.6.

Uh submit a report relative to Mr.

Ramakin's uh request to speak before council.

Is there a motion to receive and file?

So move uh any objections?

All right, 7.6 will be received and filed.

That will move us on to member reports, uh starting with member waters.

Okay, well, oh my mic on.

So today from 4 to 6 p.m.

p.m.

is our skill trade task force.

And um it's gonna be at the Compagers and Mill rights um training center, which is located at 11687 uh American Street today, Wednesday, February 18th from 4 to 6 p.m.

Skill Trade Task Force meeting from 4 to 6 p.m.

Please come out for this informational um session, uh meet um a number of the um uh leaders that are in the skilled trades, uh whether carpenters, electrical, plumbing, and et cetera.

If you want to get yourself in a paid position as you train, and these are skills that you can take with you everywhere, and you can literally put them in a suitcase and take them with you.

Once you have them, you always have them.

Um, and so on Thursday from four to six.

Um, oh well, anyway, I forgot.

Um member McCampell and Member Miller, a part of the skill trade task force.

And so come there and give them some assignments as well, okay.

In fact, I I look forward uh forward to um to working with you, um Mr.

Chairman.

Um so but tomorrow, not tomorrow, yeah, tomorrow, which is the 19th at Kimbene Rec Center, uh and in partnership with um member Gabriela Santiago Romero from 4 to 6 p.m.

We'll doing our deed fraud uh town hall there at Kimmy Recreation Center, which is located on Fourth Street, and that is from 4 to 6 p.m.

Deep fraud is real, it is no no joke, and they're just opportunities for people to learn how to protect their properties because the thieves are lurking.

Yes, they are.

So that's tomorrow from 4 to 6 p.m.

at Kimmy Recreation Center.

Thank you.

Thank you, Member Waters, and definitely looking forward to working together on the skilled trades task force.

Vice Chair Johnson.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So congratulations to Member Waters for the media spot talking about the skill trades task force.

I saw you all on WDIV.

Oh you don't miss anything.

And also want to congratulate and recognize Member Waters for being recognized as a woman of excellence of 2026.

So I congratulate you because you're on that list as well.

Thank you.

So congratulations to you though for sure.

Want to remind everyone that on Tuesday, Member Waters didn't talk about this one because she has others coming up.

But Tuesday, the District 4 Deed Fraud Town Hall will take place on February 24th at 4 p.m.

at the Samaritan Center at 5555 Connor in the Kilpatrick room.

So we're looking forward to that discussion and additional information about deed fraud because we know that it's happening in District 4.

It's happening not only in Wayne County but throughout the state of Michigan.

So it's certainly it's certainly something that laws need to be amended to make it more difficult for it to happen.

So looking forward to that conversation.

If you'd like to go through the assessor review just to uh have a conversation with the assessor's office on the assessment that you may have received, um the deadline to appeal is February 22nd at 4 30 p.m.

So you can you can reach the assessor's office in multiple ways to start the appeals process.

You can um email the assessor's office before 4 30 on February 22nd.

Um you can email ask the assessor at Detroit MI.gov.

Again, that is ask the assessor at Detroit MI.gov.

And February 22nd is a Sunday.

So Sunday before 4:30.

If you believe that your property taxes, your assessment is too high, please send an email.

Start the process.

Um, and then next month, of course, the March Board of Review process takes place as well.

So you can go to the assessor review.

You don't have to.

You're not required to go through the assessor review in order for you to go to the March Board of Review.

Um, but it is optional.

The assessor may amend the assessment, and then you may say, okay, I don't need to go to the board of review.

Um, but if you miss the deadline for the assessor review, the deadline to petition the board of review is March 9th.

Although March Board of Review takes place throughout the entire month of March.

The deadline to submit a petition is March 9th to the Board of Review.

Uh feel free to call our office if you need some assistance, have questions about the process.

We're happy to share.

The phone number is 313-224-4841.

Again, 313-224-48-4-1.

And I'm looking forward to the discussion tomorrow about the local option sales tax.

Um, just recognizing everything that we have going on in the city and um everything that we need, in addition to what we already have going on.

Uh, so thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Vice Chair Johnson.

Uh and also Adam, congratulations to both of you on those honors.

Absolutely.

Well deserved for sure.

Um, I just want to uh, in addition to what the events that are already been said, um we are rolling out our coffee hour series for district 7 um beginning this Friday, February 20th at 10 a.m.

at the Howard Family Bookstore in the north part northern part of the district, they're located at 13803 Puritan, and then on Saturday at 10 a.m.

Um at the Carpenters of Mill Rights Training Center, located at 11687 American.

Um so this Friday and Saturday at 10 a.m.

Hope to see folks out.

And that is the end of my member report saying that there is no further business before this committee.

The committee stands adjourned.

Thank you.