Focus in on some updates from the administration.

So thank you, everybody, for coming.

And I will quickly mic pass over to you all to kind of take it off.

So I'll just start and then I'm gonna pass it to Catherine.

We have a lot.

This is a lot tonight.

So I'm just kind of warning you in advance.

This is all related to the build Bureau of Building Standards and Safety, which you would have known as code enforcement before.

And we're gonna go through kind of each of the things we're talking about.

I want to say before we start, this is a study session, as you know.

Nothing here is in stone.

We have work to do with you, you'd have to make approvals here.

So both for your benefit and for the public's benefit, I don't want this to be construed as this is gospel now.

It's not.

We're bringing to you to say, let's talk about this.

We have some suggestions, okay?

So with that, hand it to Catherine.

Awesome.

So for some that don't know me, my name is Catherine Easterling.

I'm the director of neighborhood and economic development, which I oversee our building standards and safety uh code enforcement.

And so today's uh presentation is really going to focus on our rental uh program transition, uh fee moderate modernization, and then also uh any ordinance updates that will be uh be focused on those.

And so jumping into slide two, um, our executive summary.

Uh so the Bureau uh is really proposing uh updates to our rental and mechanical inspection services.

Uh we're really looking to improve this from our housing quality, strengthened property, um property maintenance, which is our code enforcement.

You'll keep hearing me say property maintenance.

We're looking to transition our phrasing from saying code enforcement to our property maintenance, um, and then really looking at uh our enhanced cost recovery.

Do you I don't it's not changing if you want the slides?

Let me try, thank you.

Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.

There it goes.

Okay.

Good.

Okay, yeah.

Okay.

So the um the proposed in-house uh rental registration uh program will be modernized through our rental registration fee increase, uh, and that's proposed and uh the implementation of a proactive inspection cycle, ensuring that all rental units are inspected and more and uh more frequently inspected when there are deficiencies that are identified.

So the Bureau is really looking also looking to bring in the mechanical inspection, and this is also uh through a third party, and we're really looking to really improve service quality coordination across our permitting uh department, inspections and enforcement, uh, while also capturing revenue that has uh previously been uh or currently being outsourced.

Slide three.

So the Bureau of Building Safety Standards and Safety is led uh by our bureau chief Steve Yuk Yerkeritz.

Um so through the Bureau, I would say like it's we also have departments under there, kind of like our public works.

So we have property maintenance, which is our code enforcement, we have our rental registration and inspection program, and then we also have our building trades.

So uh electrical inspectors, uh plumbing inspectors.

So, really kind of jumping into the background of our our study session here.

We're really uh looking uh our focus is gonna be on the rental program transition and fee modernization.

And so the city uh and the reason why we're kind of moving to the words this is that we've received consistent uh feedback from our stakeholders and so property owners, tenants, and um our staff uh and inspectors have provided continuous feedback on how we can improve this process.

And the the high the feedback that was highlighted was um inspection consistency, uh the responsiveness to complaints, right?

Because we we don't own some of this process now, uh, that has uh been limited, and then coordination across um our code enforcement efforts, and then the other is is that we don't really are don't have the ability right now to be able to capture some of this data because it lives in multiple places.

So this proposal is really a direct response from that feedback to really improve our accountability, strengthen our housing quality, and then align uh with our broader neighbor neighborhood stabilization goals, as you know, we're going through some of these plans and looking at how we can be able to increase housing, and so I think this is just part of that broader effort.

And so your role today, we're really looking to understand um feedback uh before we get to a formal action.

So, some of the rental program, um, the background of the rental program and then the challenges that uh that we're we're we're currently facing right now.

So in uh 2006, uh the city very uh established the rental registration and inspection program, and that was really to ensure uh safe and code compliant housing.

Um and the city um from that uh from that that that uh program that was initiated in 2006, uh the city also uh settled a lawsuit back in 2018 uh that provided some additional provisions on how and when inspections are um are being handled uh uh from the apartment association.

And counsel, I I wanted to put that in there so that you're aware of that because I think as we're asking you to do some things, we think you know, I don't know, I don't think anybody was on council then, so we didn't know this either, and so in doing our research, we think it's important that you know that this was an issue back in 2018 and there was some work done.

Okay.

So looking at the background of the uh the the rental program and how the system's currently uh working today.

So rental inspection services are delivered through a local third-party contractor building inspection uh underwriters, BIU.

Um, and so this it's always lived there.

So we've never had the rental program in-house.

This has always been a third-party uh contract.

And so the the the city uh what the city owns in this process is is that there's 13,489 rental units.

Um the city owns the licensing in uh the administrative process, so we are the ones that issue the licenses, and then send out any type of invoicing is is provided in those administrative functions.

And right now uh the BIU inspectors approximately inspect about seven to nine uh properties uh uh units per day.

So where this this current uh model is falling short.

So we're seeing uh it fall short in these in these five categories.

So oversight, we have that limited control, which we talked about a little bit about.

Uh service uh delivery.

We have a little bit we're limited in our ability to really prioritize complaints because this is a third-party process.

Uh and then again, back to that data part, right?

We understand where when inspections are being uh failed, uh and really being able to use uh our our property maintenance or code enforcement to be able to assist in some of these is is where we're we're we're lacking, and then also coordination.

So they're just have been disconnected from the broader enforcement strategy, and then additionally, uh we're unable to really recoup the the full program cost from a financial standpoint, too.

So currently um the the current uh program rental costs are so our annual contract for BIU is 233 uh thousand two hundred and seventy, uh which was paid out for 20 uh 25.

Um this program also funds um two clerks and one rental um inspector, which is which are city employees, right?

So we have third party through BIU that are doing the inspections, and then we also have two clerks and an inspector uh that that uh that is funded through this program.

We have technology costs that are here, there is a vehicle, office supplies, and some communication.

So it really breaks down all of the uh the the costs that are associated with our rental program.

So the rental revenue.

So um for 2025, we brought in 485,465, and that's broken down from revenue and then also um reinspections.

So if you failed an inspection, there will be a fee after a second failed inspection.

And so there's how you that that breakdown is.

What I will say in that rental revenue, the 467,750, that is not all of everyone paying on time.

Some of that is recouped funds from previous years that have been um been received in 2025 as well.

So that's not that's not annualized, that's that's just focused.

That's what was taken in, correct.

Yeah.

Is there a way of signaled to your we can.

We can also take the number, we know how many rental units there are.

I mean, at least the ones that are registered with us, right?

And we can multiply that by the number that is current and give you that.

What is the requirement for a landlord to be registered?

Um is it just as long as they are renting to someone or if they live on the property, do they get away with if they live on the property themselves?

It says in the ordinance there to provide proof of that, they're supposed to certify.

But if they or I think a family member are living in the property, they don't have to register.

Right now, too, we'll talk about this.

Currently, Section 8 properties do not have to register, or they do have to register, but they don't have to be inspected.

Correct.

We would like to change that in speaking with the housing authority.

They told us they don't have a problem with section eight being inspected.

So and then housing authority properties, so their public housing units, they are not registered with us or inspected by us.

Those are totally done by the housing authority.

So those are the only exceptions.

Yeah, and the one for relatives, like if you own a house and your mom lives there, they just ask the rental registration just asks for you to send in a letter saying my mom lives there.

Just affirming that.

And therefore it's not out for rent, it's like literally I end up with my mom.

So what the funds are relative system also.

I think the ordinance is like basically immediate close family.

So it can't be like your second cousin twice removed.

But I think you know, your kids, your stepkids, your wife, uh, mom, parents, like that kind of thing.

But it's on the it's on the landlord to send us the note to tell us that.

You see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So looking at some of the trends, so um the unpaid rental uh fees are increasing, right?

So 2023 we saw about 54,000, and that has jumped to 75,000.

Uh there was a big push back in 2018.

So you can see that some of the uh unpaid fees were uh up to 300,000.

So there was a big push through our rental program to be able to look at some of these unpaid uh rental fees and recoup some of those too.

So there has been direct action with that.

And then also this um additional inspections on paid balances are are also rising too.

So that reinspection after that second time, we're seeing those um increase.

It was interesting for us to do some research.

Um in 2018, council and mayor Schumber attacked this same issue.

They tried to tighten up the program many of the same things we're talking about now.

At that time it was that there were so many unpaid, so they try to tighten up at least the enforcement of the registration.

But it was interesting to see that was eight years ago, and here we are still having the same conversations.

They they did their best and certainly helped with the registration, but they didn't they didn't go the inspection route.

Correct.

So please see that we're saying it's designed because it's not it's no longer a problem.

I think it might be.

It's in the ordinance.

Yeah.

But it's relatively new.

Yeah, because I I remember that there's a long list of landlords and specifically LLCs that owe the city a lot of money, and I feel like they get away with it because nobody wants to turn them off.

Or, you know.

Right.

So because it was passed, I think the spring of last year, we it's it's one of those things, so now those people who have one or two year licenses, it's gonna you start seeing it this year and probably next year.

See that be enforced, right?

So what are we proposing?

So we are proposing to transition into a fully in-house rental inspection program service model.

So what that would look like is really a centralized intake, inspection, and then enforcement functions would all live within the city.

Uh and that really helps with clear lines of accountability and really performance management.

Um so we're also gonna see hoping to see that it's gonna be some improved coordination with our neighborhood and economic uh development priorities too.

So what we're proposing as far as staffing, and so um right now, as I stated that there is two rental clerks and then there's one inspector.

We're proposing in addition to those, we would be uh adding uh an additional rental clerk, uh, three rental inspectors, right, and then um one assistant bureau chief uh to be able to manage this this full program.

And so rental inspector responsibilities really look at interior rental uh tenant generated inspections.

Um so if a tenant calls and says, Hey my my power's off, and then someone would be able to go in to do inspections.

Um rental license compliance inspections, so to make sure you have your license, we would go out and inspect, and then short-term rental inspections and compliance and section eight units as uh the mayor just added as well.

And again, that is a new uh part of that uh the rental program.

So there'll be three rental clerks.

Correct, yeah.

There'll be so in total in totality there would be three rental clerks, there would be four inspectors, and then assisted bureau chief that would be managing uh that right now.

We also want to say out loud, we have to talk to the union about this as we go further here because currently our code enforcement officers are AFSME members.

Um I think there's been some very preliminary conversation with them to let them know what we're thinking about, but I just want to say that out loud that we also need to have a conversation with AFSME as we're as we're adding or changing employees.

And those are just estimated base pay and not to include benefits, what's before us at the same time.

So in that in that part, no, that those are just the actual base pays of of each kind of letter grade from there, right?

Yes.

So the proposed inspection strategy is really going to focus on high risk units.

Um we're gonna stay for standard properties, we're gonna be inspecting every two years.

High risk uh properties are going to be inspected annually.

Um and then also new ownership inspection uh prior to the issuance of a license.

And uh, I'm sorry, no, go ahead.

Okay, I'm I'm just gonna ask a question after.

Um the GIS system that we have, are we gonna be putting the information that we acquire?

Yes, we're we're really and we'll talk a little bit about technology, but we're really trying to use that GIS in every department now.

So yes, we'll we'll get there.

It's taking us a minute, but we'll get there.

Um I'm glad this is just a starting point for discussion because I agree with all of it, but I will say that there has to be a component in there rubrics uh that this is uh enforced equally across the board, because I'm not sure that that occurs right now.

And I'm always going to be uh up front with the race problem that we have here, and I don't think that it's just indigenous to other cities.

I think it's a real thing here too.

Agreed.

In our departments, authorities, boards, and commissions.

And I think consistency helps when we have a checklist when we're very clear about what we expect and we go through that.

It helps us avoid those kinds of concerns.

Um yeah, that's what I'm saying.

So moving into the enforcement framework.

So when violations are identified during our inspections, uh we're we're recommending uh when a temporary uh for a temporary license and and revocation.

So you would receive a 10 uh 10 day warning notice when uh there has been a violation, and then uh the property owner receives 30 days to complete those repairs.

So if they fail to comply with that, these are kind of the listed of what we we are recommending.

So revocation of your rental license, properties uh is posted uninhabitable, and if repairs aren't uh completed, a citation would be uh filed with the district judge.

And Mr.

Horton, I think this helps again, this is consistent and clear.

And by the way, this is already in the ordinance.

This enforcement activity, this timeline is already written in your ordinance.

There's no change here.

This is just us, and I say this all the time because I've heard councilman Flora say this, it's just us actually enforcing it.

That's what we have to do.

It's in the ordinance.

We have to go out and do it.

So we would revoke the rental license, we could post the property uninhabitable if the violations are that severe, and we could file with the district justice.

When we file with the district justice, as the solicitor has advised us, that's now public record.

So someone who's renting could find out in the public record if their landlord had violations filed with the district justice.

So it does provide that level of transparency as well.

Uh again, I might add uh because all of the provisions are there, uh, but the humanity uh isn't always counted in the equation.

And I don't think I'm one that happens to know that it's not enforced uh, you know, in an equitable manner, and it's some uh some people are uh don't have the disposal that others have.

Yes.

Yes.

So that and I think that a rubrics of this is one thing, uh, but I think that oversight, oversight, oversight is uh is is why we're here.

And we also can work with owners, you know, and I are our property maintenance um and our bureau chief has been very clear.

If owners are in contact with us to say we're working on it, we've achieved this, we're working on that.

We can we can give some grace there, but if we're being ignored, if there's nothing happening, then we have to be very clear.

I agree, but it's and it's imperative uh that there is a a um a way of mitigating or helping, and it's not just uh punitive in nature uh because we do have a housing crisis, and I think all of our we have the same aim of providing quality, uh safe, affordable housing for all of our residents.

So thank you again.

Absolutely.

So moving into um uh where we're moving with our property maintenance.

So uh currently our property uh maintenance has eight zones.

We are proposing uh reducing the zones from eight to six, and then really focus on exterior enforcement of the properties based on complaints and then ongoing uh presence in the zone.

Um standardizing our process for a quality of life ticketing and then modernizing tools to ensure efficiency and effect and accountability, and then again a continued use of uh that 1400 uh garbage sewer fee uh for excessive trash and debris.

And and we put this in here just because I think it's important because I think like you, we hear all the time code enforcement, code enforcement, code enforcement.

This is property maintenance.

This is exterior.

This is if someone calls and complains, or as they're out in their zones, they're seeing trash and debris, they're seeing exterior issues, they'll continue to do that work in their zones, and then we're gonna beef up the rental inspection, which is inside, going inside the property and doing the inspections.

We just want to be really clear with you, it's all of these things needing to be tightened up.

I did add in here the uh the organizational chart of how what we're proposing.

So the highlighted are the uh the people that that we are in addition, we're gonna be adding to the program.

So um from the rental side, the rental clerk rental inspector, uh, and and then uh we'll see later down in our uh presentation, we'll talk about our mechanical inspection uh inspector too.

So moving into our proposed rental uh registration fee structure.

So currently uh rental registration and inspections um is a 40 dollar fee.

So um per unit.

Per unit per unit.

Sorry about that.

I just got that bill yesterday.

Yeah, they did one out in April, yes, that's correct.

So um, and then also we're gonna we're we're proposing reduced inspection frequency um through the deficiency free clause.

So currently uh if you have a property that has had two inspections that had zero deficiencies, you then would move to a four-year inspection cycle.

Um and what we're seeing is that that large of a gap can create some of the blights, some of the issues that we're having, and so keep keeping a consistent inspection schedule for all properties is where we're we're looking to move towards.

And so the current fee schedule, if you pay before May 15th, it's 40, it steps up between May and June, and then after June, there's an $80 per unit um cost.

So right now it's you can have a four-year gap.

Correct.

We're project we're required to get four-year gap, and there was a reduction of fee for that too.

So your fee went down to $30 too.

So it's like you did well, and then that fee structure came down too, even if you paid late.

So and we're suggesting that you remove that, but that's for you to have a conversation about and decide.

I mean, you can see the benefit, it's it's an incentive for the owners to keep the properties up.

They get they can go to a larger, uh, larger timeline between their inspections.

The problem is it's very confusing for our rental clerks because it's hard to remember who's on a two-year cycle, who's on a four-year cycle, what you and that can be that can cause things to fall through the crack.

So that's a decision point for all of you at some point.

So our proposed uh rental register registration inspection fee.

Uh we would be moving from 40 to 55 dollars, uh, and then there's a step up uh uh per unit uh for paying later, and then additionally uh to reduce the uh the amount of reinspections late cancels, no shows, uh that that uh fee would be stepped up to 150 dollars.

What we have seen is that sometimes landlords will just not show for those inspections.

You know, BIU will schedule it and they won't show, and then it just kind of goes into the record as a no-show and nobody goes back and nothing happened.

So when we bring it in-house, it would be our intent because we can have better data, you know, collection and tracking, that we would say if you don't show, we're gonna charge you 150 dollars, and then we're gonna make another appointment, we're gonna keep at this until we actually get in.

These are a per unit.

It's per unit, correct.

I think that that's uh great too, and I think that it speaks to a lot of it is out-of-town landlords and property maintenance uh uh management businesses.

Yep, yeah.

And I think that there has to be a provision because the property manager tends to hide behind well is the landlord, and it has to be something enforceable on the property manager because more often than not, it's not that you just that unit, it's units and a lot of units under that property management, multiple landlords, but your business is property management.

Uh and it's and you shouldn't be allowed to just shrug your shoulders uh and put it off on the landlord.

Okay.

And and finally, and uh a a landowner or landlord, property manager aside, uh, should be required uh to come and set eyes on his property.

Uh and I don't know how often or frequently, which you shouldn't just be allowed to just you know uh not come and see your property or physically inspect your property uh without a a uh any we can't have you not coming here four or five ten years, not knowing what you're what you're renting out to our people.

So well, you guys will craft the ordinance when that so you know I would say to you you can decide what you want to we gonna be talking to part of that uh the that inspection uh the proposed inspection fee again it's gonna be eliminating the reduced frequency, the deficient fee inspections, and then also get on that everyone gets on that cycle of every two years, and then significant violations are inspected annually.

Uh I did want to also show a pure city analysis because I didn't want to just say that we there's we we came up from an arbitrary number, right?

So we're looking at um cities that are similar to ours.

So Reading, Allentown, Lancaster, Harrisburg.

Uh you can see the differences in how their inspection process is.

Some have been tied to lead safe, some are um have an inspection uh fee as well as a registration fee, but it is uh right in line with uh our peer cities as well.

Um Mr.

Sterling, do you uh do you happen to are are these all in-house cities of like size, or are they are they subcontracting out uh their parts of their program?

I don't know.

I I'm I'm we didn't gather that information, but I think that's a good point as to to understand fully is whether that's uh outsourced or is this in-house.

Because if it's in-house, they may be able to uh provide even further more input.

We are going to Allentown, um, all of a group of us to to meet with those departments in the beginning of May.

So that's a great question.

We can see how they do it as well.

I excuse me.

I I was talking to a tenant um this week, and they had to pay for the inspection fee.

Wouldn't it go to the landlord instead of the tenant?

It should be a good idea.

It should go to the landlord.

Yeah, did the landlord give money bill or do you know the way it was explained to me, it was a part of uh the contract that the tenant pays the $40 inspection.

Really, like it's in the lease, you're saying the way it was explained to me.

Wow.

Yeah.

You should send her down here with a copy of her lease just so we could just for so we could further understand for for research purposes.

Right.

For research purposes.

Thank you.

And I I do want to say, I think we all know this.

We really understand that not every landlord in the city of Erie is a bad landlord.

We have good landlords, we have people investing in the city.

We want that.

We want people to buy properties and take care of them and provide this housing.

What we are simply looking to do is consistently enforce and make sure that the ones that aren't doing it right do it right and keep our people safe.

We're not targeting anyone.

We want to honor the good work, and I think we do that by not by making sure we're enforcing where it's not happening.

So I wanted to provide a cost comparison of where we're currently at versus where we're looking to go towards.

And so you can see our rental revenue, uh, our BIU contract was aware of that 233 is our um City of Erie salaries.

So these salaries are with benefits um incorporated into those as well.

Um and then it breaks down into some of these, you know, some of the soft costs that that are associated or overhead costs that are associated.

And then with our proposed uh rental revenue, we're looking at from so from that 40 to that 55.

That is uh that is looking at it as if everyone paid on time.

So that that that's just giving the uh uh uh a current baseline.

Um our salaries, and then again those same same costs is there.

I will say that um so management salaries are not uh incorporated into this um and to this estimate.

Um and then also some of these costs are also incumbent into the what does that mean?

Management salaries, what managers correct?

Right, and that and that's a budgeted position that we'll have anyway, so that wouldn't be factor factored into this specifically, it would just be factored into our budget in your in the position that you currently.

But when we're trying to allocate costs, here's why this is important.

This program has to be revenue neutral.

We have to show that we're not making money on this, okay.

So what we're trying, what we're saying right now is if you look at these numbers as they exist, it looks like we're making 114,000 a year on this program, but when we go back and dig a little further, we can allocate a portion of Catherine's salary, for example, to this program.

She's spending a lot of time overseeing this program.

So we think there's just more costs we can allocate so that we can get to that revenue neutral number.

Well, what I was going down that path because you know, in our current position, uh assuredly her scope of work would would uh and so that speaks directly to scope of work.

And so I just want to be real clear when I see management salaries not included.

Uh is that a new position or and so pardon my ignorance for asking, uh, but also and I want my colleagues to know that the uh software isn't cheap.

Technology isn't cheap.

It's necessary, and uh and a lot of these steps in my opinion are necessary because it speaks directly to oversight, and I don't think we have oversight that we should have currently.

And we have more work to do on this.

Okay, show a hundred and fourteen thousand dollar profit.

So we we need to go back and we need to make sure and find out what other costs.

This was just uh, these are the big ones.

We'll go back, and if it ends up that, you know, no, it's not revenue neutral, then we'll say, okay, we need to bring that rental fee back down because we can't be overcharging.

But you will see what Catherine didn't say is we're losing money right now.

Right now we're we're in the red, 132,000, how we're doing it right now.

We can't continue that for sure.

Not and certainly most assuredly not for the quality of project uh product that that we're getting.

Yeah, I I agree.

I was on council in 2018.

So I um remember that.

And the problem is is we uh do have to make sure that people pay on time.

And uh I know the girls are have uh since they've been um in charge of that department have been working really hard with that much better.

Yes, yes.

So some key takeaways.

Um so right now the rental registration program brought in about uh 485,000 uh dollars.

Um existing revenue does not support the program operations.

Uh and if we're once we get to a place if if you guys approve to uh to transition from BIU, we're really looking at improving service quality, efficiency uh within our staff, and then improving uh some of these outcomes.

Um that would really allow us to have that in a full in-house uh model.

And I can just talk through the so this is just if you know as we see it.

So I do want to say we are meeting with the apartment association.

We're gonna do the same presentation with them.

I'm I'm going to their meeting in May.

So we're going to be presenting this all to them so that they have an opportunity to hear it from us and and provide feedback.

So we'll do that.

We'll ask you for some feedback over the next month, hopefully, if if that feels comfortable for you.

You know, if if you're moving in this direction with us, hopefully we can get some ordinance changes proposed in June.

We do need to give BIU 90 days notice to terminate their contract.

So as soon as you give us the go ahead, we would terminate with VIU, and then we'll you know, probably spend the summer months or whenever you know you're ready, developing the processes, and then if we could, if we keep on that timeline, we could have this all in-house by September.

Uh someone from council want to be attending uh or one of the road trip.

I would with you because I I think that it would be beneficial to the landlord association or to Allentown.

To Allen Town, I I volunteer you for the landowner.

That's what I was like, I will take all of this with me.

I don't want that smoke.

I would yeah, we can absolutely talk and and and but I would be happy.

We can send you the information, absolutely, if you'd like to join us.

Great.

So I propose uh uh rooming house fee modernization.

So that's the end of rental.

Now we're moving to the next thing.

Okay.

So the next thing, yeah.

Before we move on, I think so to I think there's some creativity around here too uh with the possibility of of what we could do to what counselor Horton had also mentioned uh with with the equity around being able to invest in some of these properties and then holding landlords accountable so that we're not we're not labeling places uninhabitable because that's gonna put in us in another crisis.

I think I can quickly see where this goes in a really great effort, putting a lot of people out on the streets very quickly.

Um but with some of this funding, as you're kind of looking at this, um, and then as we're talking with some of the MDJs and as we're developing this ordinance, thinking about ways that we could create a fund that could that could maybe fix some of these things and people might be understanding.

And I want to remind you, you just looked at CDBG dollars, you know.

We got our allocation today.

Um I think where we are right now with that works, but next year, when when that comes around again, you could really ask us to say, nope, we want you to create a rehabilitation fund with a lot of those dollars.

I mean, we we could do that, and that was would be something we could discuss with you.

So the dollars are there, it's just how we decide to spend them.

Uh the dollars used to be spent in such fashion when I was when I was a kid.

Uh and uh here lately we're paying for road repair, things of that nature.

And so the the matrix has to change.

It's unsustainable.

I think us as fiduciary uh com electeds, like being we being in that that component, we have looking at these numbers, we are doing a genuine disservice by keeping this outsourced.

Um and I think that we are we are not living up to what all of us ran ran on a 900.

I mean, just um just some of the platforms in which you ran on to admin um mayor is is this is 132,000.

Yeah, I I totally agree.

I mean, this has been one of my anything, any time anything is outsourced, you lose a lot.

You lose you not only lose control, you lose money and the quality service.

Right, quality service, quality of life, doesn't matter what it is, whether it's rental or other things that have been outsourced through the years.

Um and I think this is wonderful.

Um I was looking at the two vehicles that are will be needed.

Is there any way?

I mean, maybe you can look into it.

Um your grant department might be able to work in of course looking.

You know, because I know we're passing next week.

There's vehicles.

Yep, and LSA, the state funds have been used for vehicles in the past, and they just gave us some code enforcement vehicles.

So yes, we could absolutely look at that.

Yes.

Yes.

Um and I do want to say to your point, Dr.

Titus, a lot of us did run on this.

I think we all know this is important.

This is like the low-hanging fruit, as far as I'm concerned.

Like this is like step one, tightening up the rental issue.

Then we can move on to homeownership conversations, and then you know, then we can move on to larger developments.

But this is like the low-hanging fruit.

Let's just get this.

I just see the faces and hear the voices, especially from the last public meeting uh hearing that we had.

I can't unhear and I can't unsee.

And it the fact that they had to come down here and bear themselves so publicly.

Um I think that this just shows that again.

I know this is the first step, but that we're listening and we're taking action.

So I appreciate it.

This is uh, in a sense, uh low-hanging fruit.

But it's probably the most important piece of what we'll do because I'm coming from a human services uh uh body.

Uh and quality of life matters, and not just in the cute rhetorical uh sayings or things, it actually matters in terms of life expectancy.

Uh and so we we it's morally imperative uh that we do this without delay.

And I will say this, and I I'll try not to speak uh too much more going through the session to allow for my colleagues to interact.

But council, we this is great, but we have a responsibility, some stuff that we need to do too.

And I'm glad that we're rowing all rolling in the same direction, uh, but it can't just be a document presented in front of us and everybody without discussion, say yay, uh, because I'm hoping we all continue that way, but no one should be able to you no one should vote on something that they don't understand.

And and uh this can get really, really tricky really, really fast to your point about uh uh being putting people on the streets.

Uh and it all it all has to work uh together.

I'm glad this is the first step, but it's a very important step, and it's not one to be taken lightly.

I also did look um on Allen Towns program.

Interestingly, they require the license to be displayed in the unit.

That's in their ordinance.

Um they also require that the they call it the tenant landlord obligations.

Sounds very much to our tenant bill of rights be uh displayed in every unit.

So again, there's a couple more things as you reconsider an ordinance that you might want to consider.

I can send you some of the information about what they do.

And you'll have to build in an educational marketing component for this too, because we our term is to our our intent is to educate uh the the landlord to us not to be punitive, uh, but it is to pull you up and hold you accountable.

Uh and there has to be there has to be some grace.

I don't want to say grace in there because they've been given certainly enough grace.

If anyone needs grace, is the residents living in uninhabitable uh dwellings currently.

Uh but they they're they have to be brought up really, really quickly, because we're going to be expecting to hold them to the standard really, really quickly.

All right, so we'll move on then.

Is that okay?

From rental to rooming house, hotel.

I had to clarify for this for myself, so go ahead.

Awesome.

So uh background on the room and house.

Uh so how the system really works today is that uh there's an annual license required for all rooming houses.

Um and their subjects of regular inspections, uh, property maintenance standards, and then also life safety requirements as well.

And so this must be additional operational standards, including occupancy uh limits, minutes uh minimum space requirements, and then uh maintenance of shared or common areas as well.

So right now what we're proposing is that uh the uh the ones that are in the black, right?

The one through four, 150 plus are already established uh uh fees.

The 25 through 49 rooms uh we're looking to establish at 300.

So we're looking to update the rooming housing uh rooming house license uh to reflect the current conditions.

So establishing a new category that 25 to 49, uh, and then also implement uh a late fee of two times uh the license cost, which is very similar to uh how we're doing the rental program too.

And again, this is for any hotel.

So they this is the fee that they they would pay annually, correct?

Annual fee?

Yep.

Can you explain the just so I fully understand that tiering how it goes from the the 10 to 24 the 20 because it looks like it jumps from 250 to 300, but then goes back down to 200 to two to four.

So if you look, what we're saying is one to four rooms is gonna go to a hundred dollars, then you have two hundred, two fifty, three hundred.

Yeah, we weren't we the in the red, we didn't have one before, so you don't you didn't have a comparable.

Thank you.

How are you doing?

Okay.

I see where my I see what my brain just did there, but thank you.

Okay, so that's that's it on rooming houses.

Any questions on that?

Okay.

All right.

So looking at our quality of life fee modernization, again, background from that.

Um this was established to really address uh persistent neighborhood concerns uh related to our property maintenance and safety, and then also nuisance conditions that were affecting our our residents.

And so it's in response uh um the ordinance was really in uh in response to respond to blight violations and public safety issues and then improve neighborhood viability and and hold property owners accountable for ongoing maintenance and um and compliance issues.

So where we're looking to move uh the quality of life penalty increase.

So quality life number 25, which is working without a permit, and then quality life number 26 is working without a license.

So this is conduct I I know I lied.

I just want to go back to quality of life where it says uh under bullet point one two three, which is hold property owners accountable for ongoing maintenance and compliance.

Uh I think they're in council, that's an opportunity for us to embed language to include property managers uh also uh because that's the back and forth right there.

Well, uh okay, well, my I'll send the letter to the owner, they don't respond, but uh and I don't think I would do that justice if we don't say that we should add businesses as uh you know to be included.

Yes.

They are included, but you we're saying property owners, not just residential, but I I hear you and agree with you because she's very she's totally right, passionate about the fact that the businesses don't get held to the same standard account standard of accountability.

I would say legally that businesses are people under the Constitution of Pennsylvania US, so hence they would be responsible for their property that's in their name.

But you're right.

We sh I think her point is often that we don't enforce correctly, and we are working on it.

But yes.

Heard so really what Catherine is proposing here is just uh increase in the number 25 and 26.

So right now, if you read your quality of life ordinance, there's all kinds of things in there.

Each one is a different fee, usually they're around 100.

We are suggesting that we increase just the ones about working without a permit and working without a license.

This is a big jump from 100 to 1,000.

And the reason we're suggesting that to you is we're having a lot of issues with work going on in the city of Erie without permits and without licensed professionals.

And so this is this is a reaction to a real issue that we're seeing.

Now, I want to say out loud, I don't think we do a terribly good job of informing the public of our process for how to secure a permit and how to secure a license.

So you you'll see I put on the bottom there that we would delay enforcement of this until our permit and license processes are reviewed, revamped, and clearly communicated on our website.

We don't want to penalize people without telling them the rules.

So we want to do that.

But then once we tell them the rules, what we want is your support to say if they break those specific rules, it's a larger fine.

I would request that we also like around as we're updating these, that the we also are linking like where in zoning they can also, because uh that's something that I'm talking with a lot of those young, especially the brand new business owners.

Uh they they they went through the permitting process and only to realize that it doesn't fit, but they were granted every permit.

You know what I mean?

So the two systems are not working together.

We completely agree.

And we've tried to say over and over that you should start any project through zoning, but we haven't said it enough.

You know, people need a lot of time.

We we completely agree that this is on us.

It is we are not being clear right now.

We need to be clearer.

But again, once we're clear, we just want you to be aware that we're gonna ask you to increase significantly increase this because it's a danger when people are out there working without permits and without licenses, is putting our residents at risk.

And there's a lot of uh businesses that I've spoke with, not a lot, but a few that I've spoken with over the years, that they won't do work within the city anymore because it's such a hassle to get a permit to do any work in the city.

And yeah.

And this is where modernization comes in.

Like we need to go to a fully online system.

And I really cannot tell council how much work, not me, but for certainly Lori on my staff is putting into this to find a software that works to make this all modernized and online.

That's where it needs to go.

We're gonna get there and be clear, but you're you're right.

It's right now we we need to do better ourselves.

And the biggest and largest piece of it is we don't uh we can't hold anybody else accountable unless we hold our our contractors accountable or and right now under the current system that's that we don't have any accountability, we don't have any data to your point, and software is going to be costly, but it's essential.

Uh and so just look at look at those costs.

I I wanted to uh add uh here also that uh the the uh quality of life uh provisions in the in the uh what is it landlord tenant uh document or whatever?

We'll have to go back and see where all of that stuff enters any in intersectionality.

Uh what I was searching for, I lost my chain of thought was the process.

There has to be a checklist uh any in the education process for even the smaller developers, because that's one of the that's pretty much the issue I I want to discuss with you afterwards.

People don't understand the process from the large developer or the big developer, and we should have a rubrics or checklist uh that it says, or the people if you embark upon this, this is how this goes, and this is the timeline of it all, and we should hold them to it.

And it is an education component uh to that, not just to the landlord association, but to those new and enterprising developers.

Absolutely.

And and you know, again, we wanted to bring you all of these at once, but we understand some of them you won't act on until we have that's okay with us, but we just want you to be aware of the direction we're going.

We have work to do in this area for sure.

Okay.

Mechanical?

Yeah.

So the mechanical and inspection and uh inspector transition.

So currently our um our commercial mechanical inspection services are also delivered through BIU.

So the city currently oversees the issuance of the permits and residential mechanical inspections as well.

So you can see that disjointed where residential inspections are done within the city, whereas it is uh commercial is done uh through BIU.

Um, and then all the licensing and administrative functions also live within the city as well.

Uh what we're proposing is bringing BIU, um, the commercial mechanical inspection services in-house, which really provides a a better um opportunity for us to have better service quality, stronger enforcement, and then again that that cost recovery uh right now.

So uh if you can see the little chart in the bottom.

So the in 2025, we had 356 issued uh permits for commercial, which brought in at about 41,000, uh almost 42,000.

And then from the residential side, there was about 77 um issue permits uh and about 27,000.

Uh additionally, what we're we're we're we're seeing is that because it is in-house, and this is also in addition to uh what our inspectors are doing, is that we believe that the residential uh there's there's opportunity for growth there just because of that disjointed uhness right there.

So and it goes back to what we just talked about, it's confusing for people.

Why you you have to go to BIU for one of these, but everything else is within the city.

That's why just this is the last bit.

We just want to bring it in-house so we have all of these trades inspectors in-house doing the work.

Thank you.

So um what we're proposing is one uh mechanical inspector.

Uh we would look at the salary range is is around 72 between 72 and 75,000.

Uh so that revenue that was brought in was about 69,000, and then our cost that we paid to BIU for 2025 was about 30,389.

So there is a difference in this uh and uh and what that cost looks like.

But again, once we have that full complement, we believe we're gonna see um this increase because one, there's gonna be someone there that's enforcing uh these uh inspections and permits as well.

So um will that lend itself to that 114,000 in the black that we are, is that a separate account?

Separate that would be second.

That that would be for the rental program, and this would just be separate.

The other the other issue we have, just so you're all aware, you know, our we have our building inspector, electrical, plumbing, and then you know, we're we want to move with the mechanical.

What we hear from our our trades inspectors is they're the only ones of their kind.

So for example, Sam Santana is our electrical inspector.

When Sam is out, I mean, if he misses a day of work, there's a huge backlog now for him.

He was telling me he went to Disney with his family, and he basically was up at 5 a.m.

every day trying to get through this because when he's out, there's no backup.

BIU provides some backup for us in some of these areas, but the the more we take from them, I think the less likely that's gonna happen.

So we've also talked to Steve about maybe finding someone who had a couple of these specialties so they could provide some backup to one another, having them kind of cross-certified would also be helpful, but at least as a start to get the mechanical in and then hopefully try to get them to be able to back each other up because right now it's very difficult for each of these inspectors because they're the only one of their kind.

All right.

So um I did want to uh just bring out uh what is changing and what's gonna be uh staying the same and what those ordinance impacts look like.

So rental licensing requirement is still gonna stay the same, uh gonna be the same, and then the biannual inspection structure is still gonna be there.

So we're still gonna maintain the two-year inspection cycle.

It's just removing some of those other um deficiency-free uh clauses.

So what uh what could change?

So um the city's gonna assume assume the inspection um for the rental for rental units.

Uh, we're gonna be updating our enforcement framework, and then the also the updated fee structures for our rental inspection or quality of life in our rooming houses.

We talked about implementation.

So at some point we'll need council to act with ordinance on the fee schedule changes we talked about, the amendments of the ordinance we mentioned, off you know, give us the okay to go ahead with some of the staffing and then give us the okay to terminate the contract from from BIU.

So that was a lot.

We got through it all.

Um have some time for questions if you'd like.

I just want to thank you for sitting with us through this.

I know it's a lot of information, but there's a lot that needs to be done.

I want to thank Miss Easterline and uh you know start with the administration, but Catherine, I want to thank you because I know the work uh that you had to put into this up to this point, and I know it's just a tip of the iceberg.

And I don't ever want uh want you to feel unappreciated because I know what we're about to embark upon.

Uh and it's not it's not a small thing, it's a necessary thing.

Uh I think it speaks well, it bodes well uh for all the citizens in Erie, whether you're a landlord uh or renter or homeowner, because everybody wants the same thing in life, and that's you know, good quality life.

Uh area doesn't hasn't always provided uh that uh in an equitable fashion or manner.

Uh I know that there will be uh uh cries out from this part of the city or that part of the city about uh level of enforcement or equality of enforcement.

I know that the racial equity part of it is going to be.

I know the economic development part of it, but most of all, thank you for for instruct in uh inserting or suggesting these fee increases.

And citizens, oh, it's another fee, it's another fee, it's another fee, but this isn't one being passed on through a tax or levied on anyone.

This is something you shouldn't be allowed to just take, take, take, take, take from the city.

In a lot of the instances, the landlords uh and and I'll come to the landlord meeting and say that to them too.

I was just being facetious, but I'm not scared of them either.

Uh we need to hold them to a higher standard.

And they've they fell short in the same manner that we have fell short.

Uh so everybody just needs to own up on it and see what we can do to fix it.

But I know that pushing this to this point to this document, I can just imagine the work you and your team put into this.

Um, I just want to say one quick thing.

These are not taxes, these are fees.

Uh these are fees not taxes.

Oh, that's what I say.

I just want to make sure it's clear that everyone watching as well.

Yeah, and I I do want to say thank you for saying that, Councilman Horton.

I want to thank Catherine and her team.

This was something we talked about, I think, like the first week and when we were in office, and it's taken this long because it's such an enormous amount of work.

And so she and Steve and the whole team really want to thank her.

This is this is the fruit of all of that.

It's been months, but I think it's been worth it.

I've been here a couple months.

I've spoken to my colleagues.

I know Jasmine, what's your she's really passionate about this?

I spoke to Marilyn and who I'm on treadmill.

She's really passionate about this.

And I know that Kathy is as well.

I'm sure my other colleagues are too.

And um we have the means to do it now.

Is do you have the political will?

Uh, and there will always be naysayers, but uh this this has to happen.

So um, as someone who participated in an administration who you know, we didn't quite enforce and go the route that I felt as though would have benefited home um well, city residents who are renters.

Um I remember when my inspector came through and all he checked was if the fire alarm had batteries, and I thought that that was interesting.

He was in and out in under 10 minutes.

Um so I'm happy that we're going a different route.

I'm appreciative of the presentation your team put together, Miss Catherine.

And I'm looking forward to the enforcement aspect as you know.

I sat through a lot of meetings with you and your team, and I said I want enforcement, and I'm sorry that after four years of being on council and not seeing that.

I'm for that because I feel as though if you let them get away with an inch, they take a mile.

And I don't know if there's an opportunity to insert an escrow program here or place to hold people's money in escrow, but we tell people they can do that.

They don't really have, you know, it's just writing on a piece of paper far as I'm concerned.

Where do they put their money in escrow if we don't have to?

There was a discussion about doing that with the county.

What do we we talked about that?

Remember that something about if we wanted to do that, we could work with the county.

We'll get back to you.

We did talk about you're saying where to put their rent if they're withholding it for violations, right?

Absolutely.

Because right now there's in that and that is, and that's the type of intersectionality in the in the part in the cooperation I was suggesting that it's needed between all three tax and bodies because somewhere near the school district has a role too.

There is part of the rules of civil procedure.

If they have sued at the district judge level, they can pay the rent to the protonator's office.

And as that moves through the court system, the protonatory then can release some of that to the landlord, but not the whole part of it.

So there is something like that in the court system already.

I don't think it's exactly what you guys are saying, but there is something if you're in the litigation process.

For someone who's not in the litigation process, that one applied.

That's all landlords speak, that's all lawyers speak to it.

And I don't know if it if we'd be able to tap in because we already have a fire escrow.

Yep.

Where if you have a fire at your house and till everything's solved, we hold the money here from the insurance company in escrow.

And then when everything's settled, um, you know, the owner gets the money from maybe we could do it something like that.

But we don't necessarily have to uh to uh recreate the will or anything if there's a process, similar process, I think is just conversations to be had because it speaks directly of okay, we're zoning and we're we do what we do municipality-wise.

Well, but they're human services, and it directly impacts people, and they have a direct role to pay to play in this.

And I think that uh with the administration there now and the council uh as composed now, you will probably find a willing partner.

So this is really all part-timely and necessary.

And I will say to your point, tenant education, landlord education also has to come.

So again, when we think about what's next, what's next, we we can't lose sight of that.

We do need to do they both both deserve education on again on our processes and how things work, and that's kind of the next step that I think we all have to work on.

And I think another component of that, as we update some of these ordinances to and I know some of these conversations have have because I've been part of some of them have already started, uh, but our district district judges, as we change this and making sure that they're part of because they are uh a critical component of this entire process and bringing them in from the beginning, I think would be really helpful.

Um, one of the things that I would also love to see, and I know that this is a lift for the administration, but as the the landlords are kind and I think that this gives this is kudos for them as well, too.

But as they impass like their inspections, that there be a registration where they can show like when they're going to show the department, look, like we passed, we're on, you know, here's our here's our good start.

That's passed.

We're not gonna be punitive.

We wouldn't show the ones that haven't, but you could check to see if yours has.

We'll get there again.

We ask counsel for some patients, and we'll probably ask you for some money software at some point as well.

But yeah.

I would say that such a list is like so the landlords rent their property out.

It's part of a business.

So to be it might be a selling point to say, look, I'm current on my everything and I've passed all the inspections, that's a business selling point.

So it's a win-win for everybody.

Do the property maintenance uh manager or people who are employed by us, and they can't report to their supervisor as to is that all documented what um we're getting we're getting there too.

I mean, I I think what we're finding with our property maintenance, each of them does it a little differently, and and that's okay.

Some of them have relationships with residents and they're talking with them often and they're trying to get them in compliance.

So we're we're having conversations with them about, but we do need to get to a place where everything's documented.

And I think giving them a tool to do that and having that right now, it's it's not completely consistent, let me say it that way.

And I think we need to we need to get there.

But working with them so they can use their system, but just document what they're doing.

Yeah, I know on uh my first year on council we invested quite a big amount of money into the GIS system, and we got tablets and we got a lot of the software started, but then as the years progress, um, we figured out that some people do things by paper, some people do things where they're writing in a journal, and it's not a consistent process.

So maybe we need to, you know, get a process together and a minimal requirement on what we expect.

And I think one of those interactive in that too is just like uh we just we we didn't go in depth because I think it's still being fleshed out as is the administration's also looking at rezoning some of these too.

So that maybe that those are a little bit more equitable and that um there's just new.

Yes, we are we are as well.

We'll and we can bring that to you when it's completed.

So I guess leaving here today, action steps.

You know, if if you're if you like what you heard, if you think these are the right things, we'll ask you to you know discuss, and then hopefully, you know, if you need our assistance, we can help with the ordinances or whatever.

But obviously, these are your you'll need now to enact the things that you want.

So we'll ask you.

I'll request our clerks also help pull some of these ordinances from the comparable cities so that we can also have some language that we can be pulling from as well.

I think um my school background being in the force in the enforcement of the school, the more systems you put in place, the more like fish are coming.

So right now we don't have that many fish coming, right?

But when you put these systems in place, so the people that are handling this, you have to be make sure that they can handle it.

You know what I'm saying?

So like you can enforce it, but now you were telling you weren't really catching kids with hoods on, now you got 10,000 of them.

Can the people that have to handle it are they you know that's something that's it's a great point.

It's a great point.

And I will say, you know, we came to you with what we think is the minimum number of inspectors and clerks.

That's not to say that once we get this going, we wouldn't come back to you and say, you know what, you're right, we need somebody else.

I just want to reserve the right to come back to you.

We think we can handle it with what we have, what we've proposed, but we'll see.

Well, you started by educate me.

I have to learn the verbiage, the proper birds and quit saying code enforcement and say property management and or mechanical and mechanical building inspector rental inspector, property maintenance, yes.

Yeah, so bear with me.

No, it's everyone.

I think it's imperative that we all start using that verbiage because that's part of the education process.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you all for the work that you have done here.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thanks everyone.

That didn't take long.

No, that was