Recording in progress.

Okay.

I'm going to call to order this work session of the Forest Grove City Council.

The topic is on downtown placemaking.

And just a friendly reminder: no public comment will be taken, and the council will take no formal action.

And with that, I'm going to turn it over to our city manager.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor, members of the council.

I have here with me Brian Pohl, the community development director, and Camizell, the assistant city manager, who will be helping me with this work session.

I think we have an hour scheduled.

And so the intent of staff is to kind of go through this PowerPoint in a fairly methodical way and solicit some feedback from council and then look at some next steps regarding a placemaking conversation.

So if you could go to the next slide.

Next slide, please.

So before we kind of talk a little bit about placemaking and different options in Forest Grove, I want to recap a little bit about the parking conversation that we had at the previous council meeting.

There is a nexus between parking and placemaking.

And so kind of just recapping that, I think we'll will help inform this conversation.

The purpose of tonight's work session is to raise awareness and seek feedback on what we are calling attributes of placemaking.

You'll notice there's a lot of different attributes that go into placemaking, um, how that connects to an event, how that connects to the place in which you're holding the event.

And then also we're going to go uh through the downtown place making options.

I think we have 10 total.

There may be others.

Welcome to suggestions.

Uh, but raise some awareness and seek feedback on what some of those options may or may not be.

So, how does this connect to the 2040 plan?

There's a lot of things that connect to it, um, from strengthening partnerships with local businesses, downtown parking, wayfinding, but the two that are kind of really central to tonight are on the bottom.

One is explore opportunities to create a central community gathering space that was really a theme throughout 2040.

And then the other one that's kind of connected to that uh is develop a festival street pedestrian mall in downtown Forest Grove.

So next slide, please.

So in the April 13th work session, council reached consensus on the following six things.

Prioritizing parking code enforcement, new consistent and recognizable wayfinding to all of our city-owned parking lots.

Just keep the hour limits the same.

There were no change to the parking lots and how they are managed, uh, except for to prioritize the resources and improvements for the central city lot or lot two.

Install a pilot fast stop 15-minute parking stall on Main Street, and if successful, consider another one on Pacific.

And then last, restripe downtown parking to increase parking by approximately 16 stalls, which is a significant amount of increase in downtown parking.

So here's where we're at on all of those.

Staff met recently.

Actually, we've met a couple times since the work session.

Code enforcement has been prioritized.

Compliance and what we call stall turnover is up.

That's where people are essentially turning over the stalls in the two and the four-hour limits.

Public works is assembling a wayfinding bid package.

The estimated cost is approximately $5,000.

It does not require a budget amendment.

There are some standards that we have to comply with.

They're called the municipal traffic code.

Um so we are applying those M U T C D standards.

Uh the funding for that would come out of the um uh CIP excise tax.

You cannot use street fund revenues for parking lots.

So we've had several questions about paving parking lots, striping parking lots.

Um the street fund has to be applied for street revenues.

It cannot be used for parking lots, so we use either general fund or CIP excise tax.

And then uh third bullet public works is assembling a striping bid package.

Um, this is for the parking stalls on the street on the public street, not in a parking lot.

So we can use the street fund.

We are applying for a budget adjustment.

You'll hear that tomorrow night.

Uh for this project, we're estimating it to cost approximately 25,000.

Um, there was a question about whether we could stripe some of the stalls west of Jesse Quinn.

I checked with the public works director.

Uh the road geometry varies the further you go west, and so there's a certain point where you cannot put stalls in place.

You have to leave the road geometry open.

Um I would encourage if there's a question about that, please check with Greg Roberts.

Um, but there's a limit to what we can do west of Quinn on Pacific.

And then last, the fast stop sign is being ordered and it will be installed on Main Street.

Next slide.

And these are more kind of thematic.

These are kind of bigger picture to remember with regard to the parking study is Maine and 21st.

That's commonly known as the T intersection.

If you recall from some of the previous parking graphics, that is busier during the evening than during the day.

So in the evening, any time past four o'clock, that would really fill up.

And then importantly, it's it's much busier on weekends than on weekdays.

So if you looked at it during the weekend, it was busy from 11 o'clock all the way until 7 p.m.

at night.

If you looked at it during the day, we got much busier past 4 p.m.

than it was prior to that.

There's also certain portions of the T that are busier than others.

Maine is typically busiest.

21st between college and Maine is a little bit less busy, and then 21st, excuse me, and then 21st between Maine and the alley is typically a little bit busier on 21st.

But you can see that in some of the graphs.

College, this was a very clear example that was busier in the day than during the evening.

And that's principally because of the college uh parking.

So red during the day, all the stalls were full.

There's a lot of, you'll see there's a lot of parking stalls on college, but uh very full during the day, and then virtually green in the evening.

So, and when I mean evening, anytime past four o'clock.

And then importantly, uh, really not crowded at all during the weekends.

So very open during the weekend.

Uh the central lot, that's lot two.

We referenced that earlier.

That's the one that is right in the city center core.

Um, it is busy during the weekdays.

So it's virtually full all the way up until about 4 p.m.

during the weekday.

Um, and then it starts to free up a little bit.

Um, it doesn't mean that it's still not kind of crowded, but it does start to free up after 4 p.m.

You do see some occupancy.

Um, it is not as busy during the weekends, so uh not anywhere close.

So um, and then all other city parking lots are what we call under the 85% capacity.

Uh there's seven total city lots, um, and during whether it's a weekday or whether it's the weekend or the evening, uh, they're generally underneath that 85%.

It's kind of the general conclusion was is that you do have some underutilized areas.

You can improve some of your parking.

I think these are some of the examples that we've been using, but overall, the overall supply uh according to the parking study is that um you generally have enough, but you do need to manage it.

Next slide.

Uh just a couple summer updates for current closures.

Um, if you recall last year with the festival of the arts, 21st between Maine and Alley, between Maine and the Alley was closed, I think every first Wednesday.

That not that will not be occurring this year.

So 21st between Maine and the alley will not be closing.

Uh the Festival of the Arts was discontinued.

It was principally closed to accommodate Festival of the Arts.

Um, and then when the size of the event allows, this has been a practice that we've had.

Um, but if the size of the event allows, we try to encourage the use of 21st between college and Maine, uh, as opposed to Maine between Pacific and 21st.

Just has less parking and less business impact.

It is smaller.

You'll see that in some of the placemaking options that we go through.

But if the size of the event allows, we've typically tried to encourage the use of that area over the main street area.

Next slide.

So uh when we get to the very end of the meeting, before do I pass it off to you on this slide?

Okay.

I'm gonna pass it off to Kim Azell, our assistant city manager.

And um Thank you.

Uh so before we get into the meat of the discussion uh and the uh talking about all the different placemaking options and some of their attributes, want to set the stage for what we're going to be asking council at the end of the presentation.

So at the end, we'll be asking council to each identify three to four attributes.

Um Brian's gonna go through all of or I'll go through all of those in the next slide.

We're gonna ask you if there's any attributes that aren't included to identify those that you would like to prioritize.

There's any locations that you'd like to consider further.

So we're gonna present 10 locations, but there's and ask counselors to identify three to four to consider and identify any other locations that we haven't identified in that top 10.

Uh if there's any locations that you would like to take off the table, council have an opportunity to advise us on that, and then we will use that information to prepare recommendations for council consideration at the next work session.

And so at the beginning of this presentation, we handed counselors out um a worksheet to help uh with collecting all of that information.

So if you can this will also become a public record.

So any notes that you take, um, but we'll be able to collect all of those and combine it and come back to council with a for the next work session.

Next slide, please.

So some of the attributes that we've considered that we've identified that we'd like council to weigh in on.

Uh first the size, so this is the square footage of the different locations.

Two is parking displacement.

We've identified the number of parking stalls for each location, business impact.

Um the most part, we've identified just the number of business storefronts along each location.

Usage pattern, so if there needs to be some sort of road closure for that location, use uh fiscal impact.

And this is really if it is a developable property or not.

This mostly applies to URA properties plus the city gravel lot.

Um environmental considerations, so things like gravel paved tree sun coverage.

This also plays into the accessibility question, whether or not a location may be accessible.

Uh, and also if we require some sort of fiscal investment in the site in order to make it um accessible.

Location, where how close other amenities are to that space?

So walking distance, parking proximity, et cetera, and then longevity.

So, how long can this location sustain being a placemaking location, the foreseeable feature?

This ties back also to that fiscal impact and the developable properties trait.

Next slide.

Uh so 2040 plan points towards this community connection.

Uh we've identified here the seven different sites.

We've uh split 21st Avenue into three uh on the site location based on where they have clear breaks um with intersections.

You'll notice that the first three of these are currently used for events, whereas uh and then three other central city lot URA site B and URA wood roll lot are URA owned in some or all portions.

And with that, I'll turn it over to Brian to talk through all the options.

Thank you, Kim.

Um just to go through these, uh on the next slide.

Um, as can mention, we have uh 10 sites that were looked at.

Uh I want to kind of stress that the area is uh is pretty rough.

It's not an exact number or anything.

I assume you probably understood that.

Uh parking stalls were counted, um, whether or not these were involved involved a road closure or not.

And of course, that fiscal impact is uh, you know, sort of be simple properties that are owned by the URA or the city and potential for redevelopment or intent to develop.

Um just want to kind of go through this pretty slowly.

Um if you have any questions or anything, please feel free to just kind of butt in with questions, uh comments or anything like that.

Um next slide, please.

We'll get started.

So option one is Main Street.

This would be from Pacific to 21st.

Uh that's approximately 12,000 square feet on this block face, or I guess at least two block bases technically, there are 32 parking stalls uh that are all in high demand for night and weekends and day locations.

Um there are 22 storefronts and 19 businesses that all have daytime hours.

Um as you probably all know, this area has held events for many years during weekdays, evenings, and weekends.

And it's currently the primary location for the farmers market and several annual events.

We move to option two.

Wait, can I can I interrupt really quick?

Do you care if we after each option ask questions?

Oh no, please.

So there are questions about option one, Counselor Feltner.

Because you brought it up in option one, I want it's actually sort of a it's a missing attribute.

Did we want to talk about that at the end or now?

Is now okay.

So one attribute that wasn't on the list um but is mentioned here is um the fact that the area has held events historically and for a long time.

And so I think that's one another factor that we should be considered in our conversation about it.

Yeah, that I have a question.

So, yeah, um it has held events for many years.

In fact, it's been decades.

Uh, if you look at a lot of the annual events, a lot of the annual events, whether it's holiday in the grove, whether it's chalk art, like chalk art in this particular case was actually incorporated into portions of the sidewalk.

That's why you'll see those little monikers.

Um then and we'll get to it a little bit later.

One of the other annual events, which is the cornroast that actually occurs on on Collegeway, it has a little bit different characteristics in some.

So but anyways, yeah, it has been.

I I think virtually all of the events have occurred on Main Street at some point.

So I had a I was curious.

Um if we decide we want to go a different route than Main Street, can we do that?

Or can people still say, like, yeah, we want to close the road, have it on Main Street?

Like I mean.

Yeah, I think the intent of today's discussion is to kind of get into some of those nuances, Mayor, um, and find out.

Because oftentimes when it comes to placemaking, it's a little bit of a layered discussion.

It can depend on the the time when you have the event, whether it's during the weekday, whether it's day, whether it's evening, whether it's weekend, the size of the event, the amenities necessary for the event.

So there's this really kind of layered approach that comes to it.

Not all events are the same.

In fact, every event is virtually different, not every place is the same.

And so it's really kind of what are the attributes that the council's looking for?

What are some of the impacts associated with each of the options?

And what's the and and kind of how can staff take this feedback and potentially bring back some recommendations that try to look at that layered approach?

Recognizing that there's not going to be one particular place that maybe fulfills all of the events and and all of the attributes that move to option two, please.

So option two is 21st Avenue, uh, between college and Maine, as you can see, called out on your map there.

That is approximately 6,000 square feet.

Uh displaces 14 parking stalls.

Um, and as the parking studies showed, it was kind of a medium demand location.

Um there are four storefronts.

Uh important to note there's only one business uh that has only morning and lunch hours there.

Um it has held events for many years during weekends or weekdays, evenings, and weekends.

Um, and sort of as a sort of ancillary to Maine, it's sort of the area, the first expansion uh as opposed to Maine, or sorry, uh in conjunction with Maine uh for events.

Um I'll make a little bit of note here that this is this was uh identified as phase one of the festival street um in that concept that council uh passed.

Um so that's important to note right there that this was phase one of that festival street, not the entire thing, but just uh partition.

Oh I'm sorry, Counselor Govson, go for it.

No, you don't have a question.

Okay.

Not seeing any questions on this.

One other piece to point out to with uh number two is that there is also the possibility, and Pacific has expressed the interest in this for at least the farmers market expanding from number two onto Pacific's campus and becoming kind of a gateway onto the campus to collect the campus uh to connect the campus with the downtown business area.

Next slide.

Okay, you do have a question.

Go ahead.

Sorry, I'm unmuted, I think now.

Can you guys hear me?

Yes.

Okay.

Um I didn't realize that we were not just asking questions.

So um I concur with counselor Balconer's um comment about that gateway.

Those have been conversations that the downtown association has also had with Pacific.

And one thing to note when um Brian mentioned the phase one of Festival Street, which kind of got dropped because of uh funding.

Um that is also one of the locations um being very closely looked at um and and already having conversations with other other cities.

Um the downtown association has been taking part in that to determine as far as placemaking what would bring people down.

So when we're talking about, you know, like an area for events, that area has also been under discussion um about a location that maybe could hold events because it's it's it's large enough for some events.

It doesn't impact a lot of active businesses that are doing retail during the day, but that also can be used as an area that have other attributes in it now, like other cities have kind of their like a fun play area, um sitting area, which will bring people downtown to hang out downtown.

So you're you're kind of using it as it's two different options, and it would be a great place to start um because it is a smaller area.

Thank you.

Any other comments, questions?

Okay, we're gonna go on to option three.

Okay, so option three involves uh 21st Avenue from Maine to the alley.

Uh, this is approximately 5500 square feet.

There are 11 parking stalls, and uh they're in high demand uh for day-night weekend locations.

Um it impacts five businesses with daytime hours.

Um to staff's knowledge, this has never held events by itself.

In other words, in and of itself has never just been this portion closed for events.

Um it is often used at the second expansion of Maine um after Maine, then 21st uh to college.

Uh now this would be the sort of third expansion area, some sorry, second expansion area um for that T to sort of form for pause there.

Move to option four.

Um this is 21st Avenue moving west from the alley um over to uh A Street.

Uh this is about an 8,500 square foot area.

Uh would displace 15 parking stalls if closed.

Um again, a high demand day-night weekend location.

Uh there are five businesses with daytime hours.

Um and the area again is not held events by itself.

Um, it's sort of the third expansion uh after the other two sections of the 21st and Maine would be closed.

Go for it.

So one thing to keep in mind about section one, two, three, and four independently, is all of those sections can be closed independently and not require additional road closure areas to close it.

So if you look at what's that each each section, like one can be yes, and on 21st, too.

So like number two can be closed independently, collegeway could stay open, main street can stay open.

Three can be closed independently.

So any eastbound traffic coming in off of off of B Street can go south through the alley, main street can remain open, and four can close independently as well.

And any westbound traffic on three can go south through the alley.

So the big picture, all of those sections independently of each other can be closed and not require any additional road closures.

You'll notice that later on in the presentation, that's not true for all options, but it is true for the first four.

I don't I don't understand how three can be closed and you can keep without closing part of four.

Going, I'm sorry.

If you're going eastbound on four, then you can get out you can take the alleyway to the south and therefore not have to close four, or you can go north through the alleyway and go west on four.

Yeah.

So the alleyway is kind of the escape valve that allows both three and four to close independently of each other.

Yep, yep, yep.

That the one that goes north from the center parking lot of eight right there.

That's the other way between all the way from Pacific all the way to 21st.

Yeah.

Okay.

I I don't know about that.

I mean, I I understand technically that that's true.

But if you also have that's a parking lot that also has like the laundromat.

I mean, I don't think we want trap like I don't believe it's safe at all to have traffic going through a parking lot.

Because it's not really an alley, it's an alley to a parking lot.

I mean, it's an alley, but the only the primary purpose of that alley is the central city lot.

So like to me, I I'm gonna push back a little bit about that because I don't think that's a road.

And I think there's just a lot of parking that's already really congested.

And based on the last work session, we are gonna increase the parking spaces in there.

So I I mean I'm just saying I I'm not a big fan of that.

Yeah, it's definitely not ideal.

It is skinnier, it doesn't have the improvements associated with it.

Um so you're you're correct, Mayor.

It's it's definitely not ideal.

It's possible, but not ideal.

So one thought though, is you could put a barricade up just after the laundromat and make people come in and off specific.

So this would probably be a good opportun, good chance to mention that any time that we have any type of road closure.

There's a process that the city has in city code where the applicant has to put forth what's called a traffic impact analysis or traffic impact plan.

That plan gets reviewed both by the chief and by the public works director.

The city may require, depending upon what the closure looks like, different um different signage arrows, monitoring, volunteers, etc.

Typically, the kind of the bigger the impact, the kind of more signs and the more volunteers, the less the impact, the less signs and fewer volunteers, if that makes sense.

So barricades come in, signage directions come in, all of those things, Councilor Martinez can become part of what's called a traffic impact plan.

Yeah.

And part of a placemaking conversation is to a certain extent, if there becomes a central gathering area that is kind of stood up and stood down on a frequent basis, those traffic impact analysis become easier, if that makes sense because you've done it before.

It becomes more of a template as opposed to kind of a one-off occurrence.

And so that's also part of this conversation.

That being said, um, you can do a lot in a traffic impact plan to try and accommodate a certain thing.

Um, but to the extent that it is used more frequently, those plans become simpler, easier, more implementable.

And Mayor, I think you bring up a really good point about some of the trade-offs and some of the none of these options are the perfect solar bullet of placemaking.

But what we're trying to present tonight is those trade-offs and get a sense from council about which trade-offs you're willing to make and which trade-offs are not.

So thinking about closing three and four independently, it sounds like maybe that's a trade-off that council isn't willing to make.

And so we'd like to explore that conversation.

I think we're good to go.

Okay.

Moving to option five, uh, this is college way between uh 21st and university.

Uh, this is a approximately 28,000 square foot area uh with 73 parking stalls.

If you recall, this is uh diagonal uh head-in parking uh all along college, typically used by university.

Important to note there is no business impacts uh on this closure.

Um also important to note that it would not require additional closures if you use it on its own.

So if this if just this were used um and two and six were open, the circulation can still happen uh around that block in a pretty easy, familiar manner.

Um however, if it was expanded to college between Pacific and 21st, it would also require the closure of 21st between college and Maine.

Um so if you close five and six, uh two would then have to be closed as well to avoid cars turning into here and make some number two.

Um it's been infrequently used uh by itself during the week.

Um it's normally used on the weekend in conjunction with closing 21st between college and main and South Way.

Um pause right there.

Any comments, questions?

I think I'm gonna wait.

I don't really have a question.

It's more of like a vetting in my brain.

So I'm gonna pause and I'll wait until the end when we have discussion.

Anyone else?

I don't think anyone else.

Next slide.

And then moving to the south, uh, option six would be college way from Pacific to 21st.

This is just like Main Street, about 12,000 square feet.

Uh, there are 35 parking stalls.

Um, there is one business with daytime hours uh that fronts on to number six.

Um due to the one-way, uh, it would require the closure of 21st between college and Maine and college between 21st and university.

Um it really uh cannot be closed alone, so to speak.

Um sorry, if you were if you were trying to I'm sorry, have that wrong.

You can ignore that note.

Can you not close that one?

Um five.

I have my note here, and I was starting to question that.

Yes, that's correct.

So if you're on number two, you cannot then take the the left onto the one way going the wrong way, and you can't take the right for the closed street.

Sorry, point call.

You're good.

Yeah.

Uh pause right there again.

Can I ask a just technicality question?

Why is I mean, with the closures the way they are, like why have five and six separate as options?

It's like I'm sure this was a chest.

It was, it's a little bit in the ways.

The reason we separated the two is because you can close five independently from six, but you cannot close six independently from five.

We can call it five plus I got it.

Five extension.

Yeah, got it.

Thank you.

Can I be I'm writing?

We can write.

Okay.

So we're gonna get to seven through ten here, and and these are a little different.

These are not using the public right-of-way, these are uh properties that the city or the URA owns be simple.

So these are actual discrete parcels of property uh that are not in the public right-of-way.

And so the first of those to consider is the woodfold lot right across the street here, uh owned by the URA.

It is about 55,000 square feet.

Um it displaces some incidental informal parking.

Uh there's no organized parking, there's anything striped out there or anything, certainly no ADA.

Um there are food carts currently operating on the site.

Um would not require any road closures.

However, it's important to note it's not really expandable.

Once you've you know kind of maxed out this space, that's kind of really all you have.

Um never to our knowledge been used as events.

Um, and it would be important to somehow message this as this is an interim use.

If this were to be used for events, it's an interim use and not permanent use of the property.

Um, I think our all of our understanding in this room is that the URA does have the intention to at some point redevelop this to uh a use that is uh more permanent in nature.

Um pause right there.

Questions, comments none.

Okay.

And then there's option eight, the central city lot.

Uh it's about 20,000 square feet, displaces 64 parking spots, 64 parking stalls.

Um, does not display storefronts or on street parking.

Uh, however, it's used by employees and customers during the above times.

And important to note that closure of this lot would then force employees on to street street parking.

Um, and that's sort of not to say that's good or bad, but that that that's probably the reality of a closing slot for events.

Doesn't require any road closures.

Um it has been used partially and sporadically for smaller weekend events associated associated with adjacent entities, um, but but very infrequent.

Um so uh pause right there and talk about number eight.

Counselor Falkner.

I don't know if we're gonna maybe this is a question for question and a comment for later.

I was curious why the alley isn't maybe considered as part of the placemaking in addition to number eight.

Um and the reason I think that is because especially with the future development of the theater building, um, you know, I could see a night market sort of and then activation of those back sides of the of the of the current businesses that front main street instead, reactivating, re-energizing.

Yes, you lose some parking spaces in the end term, but as we know, with signage, we can probably accommodate those folks.

Um so maybe a question, but also an option that we haven't considered on this list that I'd like to add.

It's a great point.

I was gonna say the alley would be closed anyway if we did option eight.

So I would say it's city lot plus the alley.

City lot plus yeah.

We'll revise the map to include the alley.

Great point.

And we'll add the square footage to it.

I don't believe there's any parking stalls in the alley.

Um, but we will add the square footage and redo the diagram.

Yeah, council president Valenzuela.

It is my understanding that there's some tenants that use that parking.

There's some apartments that are rented to students and uh yeah, I don't know.

I mean I would imagine, but be taken into what anecdotally, I've heard that many Jesse Quinn residents park in that lot.

There's not a timeline overnight on that one, and there's um there's also um facing into there is actually access to apartments on the back side of the area there.

Um I know that like certain places have parking that go into it, and so I don't know how that affects the parking that would go into it.

Um so on the outside of the back of the property on the outside of the parking lot itself.

So would it be shutting down the parking spots or would it be shutting down the road the access around the parking lot?

So the other analysis that we'll have to do is kind of sharpen up on that.

If there's access to private parking lots besides the city lot, that would be either north or to the west of the lot, we would have to look at what the impacts of closing the alley would be and closing that excess off.

I don't know the answer to the question, but we can take a look at that too.

Counselor Govtison.

So um I concur with what uh counselor Falkner said again, um, in that center space, it could be uh valuable area, especially because there's other perks to it besides just um having a place um that is off of the main street area blocking up the um our brick and mortars.

But since we're talking about parking at the same time, I wanted to mention that this area right here is is an area where there are several different concerns from business owners that have a smaller business because by the time they get into their shop or their staff get into their shop, um, the the businesses that are larger um out of want to move head as many of their employees have already parked there.

So I mean it's it's first comes first serve, so I don't know what anybody can do about it, but um the some of the business owners feels that feel that that is an uneven um option for many of them.

Any other comments or questions about this lot?

Yeah, one more from council.

Um if we're doing any events there, um timing would be key because um I know like Hashiah mentioned with Adelante, that is where they drop off all their students in the daycare whatnot there every morning.

Um they routinely have their fire drills where they walk the kids out and back and forth, and so um I know during the day during the week would be a hard time to do something, weekends would probably be a totally different story because they're not there, but from that normal school time is when it is it's pretty congested back there, especially from like eight o'clock in the morning until about nine, it's it's steady traffic through the dropping off kids.

Thank you.

Okay, I think we can move on.

Yep.

Okay, uh option nine is what we all know colloquially as site B.

Um it's owned by the URA.

Uh as of right now, it is undeveloped.

It's 35,000 square feet.

Um it displaces some incidental parking, informal parking.

Um, there's nothing organized on that property, although we we do know that many people are parking there.

Um, there will be no business impacts, uh no road closures required.

It's important to note, I mean it's a gravel surface.

Um, it's exposed to the sun, it has a pretty decent slope from uh north or sorry, from south to north.

Um it has not been used for events.

Um, and if there's suspicion space in this, this you know, this could be divisioned as sort of a gathering area that's actually part of redevelopment, more of a permanent gathering area or or market space or something like that.

Um so we could pause there and talk about that.

Any questions?

Okay, and then finally, option 10, uh, which you can see from right here is the small gravel lot uh to the to the south of the city's employee parking.

Um this is about 15,000 square feet.

Uh displaces incidental parking.

Uh again, there's no organized parking there, no stripes, asphalt, anything like that.

Um has not been used for events before.

Um, and the long-term use has kind of been in limbo so far.

Um, it's really just kind of serves the ancillary parking for things like court dates and things like that when we have overflow and court.

Um it's a gravel surface, it's it is shaded in in most of the areas, and it is flat, and it does have a high visibility factor from the top foot as well.

So Marshall.

Location is what we use for time placing manner, correct?

That's correct.

And so that any event would not be able to start after 7 p.m.

Well, I think there'd be some additional discussions to happen.

Okay, I mean that it wouldn't be as simple as just any other questions.

Yeah, councilor president.

Thank you, Mark.

Um so yes, it number 10 is right here next to 19th Avenue, and uh there's a lot of traffic there when you're having an event.

I think safety for pedestrians and for kids should be taken into account.

I would definitely be more inclined to for us to consider one of the places that are kind of uh closer to the university.

So it because this will be you know very difficult, I think.

And I'm just thinking about safety reasons.

So if you're gonna have an event, you know, where everyone is entertained and everything.

I I just think we have better options.

Thank you.

Okay.

I don't see any.

I see it's back to you.

So now, mayor, members of the council, we're to the discussion portion.

I think what staff is really looking for that would really help us try to kind of bring back some potential recommendations for the council consideration would be what are kind of the top attributes, Councilor Valenzuela, you just mentioned one with regard to site 10.

Are there any attributes that we're missing?

We've tried to be as inclusive as we can, but we may have missed something, locations that you may want us to consider further, but then also identify three to four, maybe out of the ten that we could take back and potentially bring into a layered conversation later.

Other locations did we miss one?

Is there one that we just didn't think about?

Um and then I think importantly, are there any locations to just take off the table?

Just boom, take them off the table.

Uh and then you know, kind of reduce the list from 10 down to maybe six or something.

I don't know.

Uh and then we'll bring back some recommendations.

So with that, Mayor, I'm gonna turn it back to you.

Can we have the list of the attributes?

Okay, so do we want to just do you just want okay?

Can I ask staff question?

Would you rather have us write on our note sheet the three attributes that we think are most important, or would you rather have us come to consensus right now?

Yeah, and then we can tally it.

I would reconsens on that, right?

Well, I think let's let's let's take like a minute and look at what we want and then write down what our top three are, and then we'll share out and see if we have consensus.

Or we can you know, I mean, let's just start and see if if we can get there.

Does that sound fine to you?

So the attribute here size parking.

And then would you Council President, would you put yours, like yeah, or with or location?

I mean, I think that I think that's also location.

Maybe you also have an additional attribute that isn't included.

Um, feel free to just create you can create an extra one.

I mean rather than trying to rename it, like if I agree with her, yeah, I would say I I would add that to my list, but I don't get it as a separate one because I call it.

Yeah, I think what personally what I heard is that's safety.

And so I would add an attribute of safety.

And then I would also on there, you know, Angel, you had the historically used, like the history.

Okay, so that yeah.

Was there okay?

Wait.

Counselor Schimmel.

And if there's another, if any other attributes that we need to add.

Go ahead, Counselor Schimal.

That's minor.

Is that correct?

I think it's just like to try to rank them, like try to like weight them, maybe.

And you have all those attributes.

The way I'm understanding is it gives staff like to weight them heavier, like these are the weighted, maybe a heavier weight bucket, then essentially it's a way instead of just asking, here's 10 options, tell us what your top three or four are.

This is a way to kind of get to that from another angle of well, if these are the attributes that are the most important, then we can start seeing options that rise to the top, as well as being able to analyze them further.

Especially if there is an attribute that we missed.

You know, and one thing I know I was like, hey, we should brainstorm, but even with location, I think we kind of need to understand that as well.

Because for me, I'm gonna put location, but also like I want to elongate, like I want to lengthen our downtown our core, right?

Um, maybe like I think that's a priority, but like you wouldn't really get that like so location could be like right in the heart, but really what I would like to do is like say we already have like we're trying to create a vibrant downtown, then if we pull it out a little bit, we lengthen that downtown core.

And so I also think it's just and you know, going back to the conversation, like you know, about I think there is a lot of value in the minutia of this.

Uh, because what we're trying to do is like really create like a core, like a heart, like a really cool place.

And so I think we're at really at a good starting point, but then also understanding what each of us wants and the consensus of the council of what we're looking for.

Go ahead, Counselor Falconer.

I think that would that was a really helpful um comment because I kind of I actually sort of see it opposite of the way you just said, because I think that you concentrate, like I would have put like location was gonna be my top one, but I have an opposite view, which is like we need to like like let's work like let's crush it with what we have.

The expansion will come later.

Yeah, and that is true, and that could be we've got these other investments that we're gonna be doing, and like that's how you fill that in.

Like you don't spread it thin at first, you know, you like right, really do something really well, attract, and then you build on.

Yes.

So but I'm not saying that's no, no, but I and I actually agree with you.

Uh, but like I was like thinking in the big scheme, right?

Like I would want to take uh woodfold because like I want development there to so like for the events, I I don't want it anyways, but yeah, yeah, okay.

Counselor Gussen.

When we're talking about this, are we keeping uh in mind those future plans, uh, Mayor, that you just talked about?

Because some of these seem like they should be just a temporary fix until we decide what that downtown will look like.

Those are those are plans that that could be, and in some cases are happening of what that might be, and that would include uh event centers and where it should be based on um other placemaking that we're choosing to do in the downtown, and how close to the businesses.

So uh I I just want to understand uh are we looking for a permanent location, or is this just uh for now until we have a bigger vision, or is it both?

Yeah, I think that's we're in the beginning stages, right?

I think that through this, that's what we're trying to identify as like uh a basis of where to start that conversation.

And I think that events could be different, or like the place may it might end up being that we have more than one place that we're making.

That we're having we're making a place for those annual events.

We're making a I mean, you see what I'm saying?

I think right now we're just trying to start with a a thought, like a wide breadth, and then try to get it down a little bit more so we can see what our options are.

So I think for you as a counselor, you know, when you think of a place like in downtown, what are the things, what are the attributes that are most important in either option you're saying?

Because I feel it's this, you know, to be completely honest, if it's permanent or temporary, there's gonna be key attributes you want.

Right.

So I think it's I don't know if that helps or not.

I mean it it doesn't help or not help.

This is just a question I was asking as what scope we're looking at, because for instance, um, impact on property taxes and assessed value, if it's a temporary location, that attribute has no value to me, um, or very little.

So that's why I kind of wanted to understand are we talking permanent or are we talking temporary?

Or are we completely, we just don't know at all?

Because that will determine which ones I leave out of my decision.

I think at this point, as it makes sorry, it's it's it's an open conversation.

So one of the attributes on the bottom was longevity, if it can be sustained in that location for the foreseeable future.

And so I think there's just what we're just trying to mention.

If there isn't a location where the city or the URA expects to do something different, that that just be known up front, and that becomes part of the conversation of okay, if there is a plan to do placemaking here, it needs to be kind of the expectations need to be known up front with the community, also with anybody doing events there that this is only gonna last for X amount of time because we have um you know different plans for this particular place in your public areas, which are your streets and so forth.

Um, I think as Councilor Falconer mentioned earlier, we've had events in certain areas for a long, long time.

The question there might be, do you still want to have them there?

Or do you think there might be a better place that is suited that you can have it in that location for the foreseeable future?

And there's other locations where you'll only be able to have those events potentially during certain times.

I think Counselor Marshall mentioned, for example, that if you're blocking access for X, Y, or Z, you may not be able to have an event at that time because you have to afford access for that particular event.

So some may be time limited, day limited, weekend limited, etc.

So it's it's a bit of kind of all of those, Counselor Gustavson.

And I think what we're kind of looking for as staff is to be able to find out what the texture of that is, generally speaking, so that we can bring back some potential recommendations, and they may be layered recommendations.

They may be several occasions.

But getting any kind of that feedback would really help us in terms of kind of trying to help formulate what those might be.

Thanks, Jesse.

And and Mayor, both of your conference conversations here has helped help that decision.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Okay.

So do we want to start sharing out our three?

Let's just go through and then you want to take a tally.

Okay.

So we'll just start on that end of the table with Counselor Feltner and go around if that's fine with everybody.

Top attribute?

Top three to four attributes, yeah.

Okay.

So for me, top one is location, but understanding for me that means preference to the close proximity, um, history of events, safety, and longevity.

Um so for me, the first one is um safety, the second one, traditional location of the event.

Uh what people are familiar with.

I think that is important.

And um my view, that would just be, you know, I think the circle right here where there's two, five, six, four, C in.

Okay.

Um that's all I have.

Okay.

Counselor Shamel.

I agree with location for the uh couple of things iterated on this article.

Oh sorry.

So quickly, uh, number one, look location or accessibility as a as an emphasis as well as infrastructure.

Uh, and then uh I just would appeal that before the next work session, we have targeted uh feedback through our partners, uh namely Adelante Chamber, downtown businesses, as well as the uh downtown association.

So we get we get their feedback on on their attributes.

Uh and then I'm I'm finding that outside investment it will be important to uh what's the word that Brian likes to use?

Uh catalyze outside investment for with our URA and tourism dollars.

So you know, if we take a look at some examples of outs potential outside investments, for example, travel Oregon or Oregon Main Street or other sources, they have their own goals that we may want to uh consider our line with.

Um let's see.

For me, I would think um yeah, impacted businesses.

Try not to impact um places where we can do a lot of parking, have you know, where we'd have to block a lot of parking space, safety is a good one.

Um yeah, the some of the lots that we have out here, seven and well, at least seven.

We have other plans for those in the future.

Nine, my thought was because of the grade, maybe that would be a good place for a community gathering spot, except that it is kind of far from downtown.

Parking isn't the best right there to access it.

So my three would be business impact, usage pattern, and parking displacement.

Um, when I look at it, I do I agree location as well, um, knowing that I think it should be that kind of college way area, and looking at that general idea of where it would be.

So you're looking at only shutting down, if you do two, five, and six, you're shutting down or affecting two businesses.

You do one, two, three, and four, you're looking at about what is it?

Uh 14 a thousand square feet less and affecting um 30 businesses.

So that's just my two cents on that one.

Counselor Gusten.

Um, okay, so safety would always be in that um attribute that I feel is very important.

Um business impact, either positive or negative, would need to kind of know what that is, positive, preferably.

Um environmental and location.

Um and I know counselor Shimbo was talking about you know communication and and making sure we find out from others what they um what they think might be good.

And again, this is another situation that I think I feel like that we're we're stepping into this, and we don't really have a lot of information from our partners from the get go.

And when I'm talking about which ones, these are all things that could be um we could get assistance from the OMS network, the Oregon Main Street network, because they're going to have a lot of ideas of um what this maybe would look like for us, or options that we haven't thought about kind of making this um exercise less useful, in my opinion.

Um, I would really like to start with that.

The these are the exact examples, exact examples of why the OMS network is so useful for cities, is not just because they take a huge load of all of this um nitty-gritty stuff, right?

That they have to find out and work through, and they put that on to a different organization to help with.

In addition to that, um S has a huge network that can help with all of this.

So I I think that we really should start considering that as an option when we're first having these conversations.

Thank you.

The attributes I have are location, safety, business impact, and longevity.

Are there any on that list that all of us said just out of curiosity?

Okay, do we have a top location with the yeah?

What do we have for location?

Okay, are we in consensus that location should be and just for the clarity of you know my comment earlier?

When I said like with lengthen, it was because I wanted to develop our URA properties.

Like I think walkability, but I also don't want to, you know, and I and I understand the historical aspect, um, but and I'm gonna age myself when Main Street first began being used for farmers market and things like that, it was not as large as it is now.

Um so, anyways, like I I am like having a little bit of angst uh you know, with number one, you know, the business impact.

So, anyways, but I just want to say it.

Are we in agreement that we can keep location as a priority for staff as a key attribute?

We had five, so there's a consensus for that.

Is that what you're looking for, Jesse?

Or all these kinds of attributes I think we can take all these attributes back and kind of further characterize some of them.

Um and then just try to be mindful where some of the consensus areas may exist and how that may affect the locations.

Yeah.

So are we okay with leaving?

How does the council feel just with leaving our feedback for them to look at?

Yeah, that's what I thought we were doing.

I think we were gonna like come back in second.

Okay, cool.

So what else do you need from us?

Maybe if there's any locations to take off the table, or if each counselor wanted to identify their top three to four locations, we might be able to use that and also help populate some recommendations.

Okay, so let's go through and we'll um we'll go in reverse order and we'll just say maybe your top few locations and anything you would want to take off.

Okay, and so we'll start with counselor Govesson.

It would take off the and I think it based on the map I was looking at is one of them.

The um time place and manor parking, the one down by City Hall.

What would you add?

Or what would you like?

What's your first choice or two choices?

My first two choices.

Yeah, so we're doing our top choices to to prioritize or that you're curious about, or and then the one that you would not like to explore.

If I had to choose two possible ones, I would choose um the center, the center parking um lot of the city over by the downtown area as a place to look into as well as uh the B Street area.

Keep in mind I'm I'm saying that because I feel like I need to contribute something to this, and I know it's in the initial discussions, but I really honestly could not even begin to have a very good opinion at all.

Um not knowing if this is for permanent or for um short term or a whole bunch of other things that we just aren't there yet.

So I think I'm trying to have given my best okay.

That I I understand that.

That's why I said I know that we're at the very beginning of this, so I'm just elaborating on it.

Um I would I would cut 10 and seven personally, um, and I would look at two, five, and six would be my choices.

So let's see.

It's hard because there's some downsides to at least five with the parking lots on there, but I would think two, five, six, and then three or four, three and four, I should say maybe eight, and take out probably nine, unless we could develop that some way, you know, for a community gathering place.

Um, probably ten and seven take out those.

Sorry, I'm gonna jump in a second, Counselor Schimmel.

I can't hear you.

Yeah, I apologize.

Oh, no problem.

Thank you.

Uh I was just saying that I'd start with one just as the baseline or benchmark from what from which other options are evaluated against.

Um in terms of other options, I I'd agree with um Councilor Marshall about the the five some combination of five, two, and maybe six.

Um I think we we need to consider not not just the the vendors and utilities, but uh but the parking for those vendors, what where do they go and return?

So that's where the the adding the six potentially because it's sloped.

Does that become parking for vendors if you're using five and two, for example?

Um yeah, I need you'd like to oh uh URA or gravel in general.

Thank you, Council President.

Thank you.

Um I'm going to agree with counselor marshall, and uh would um support um please take in place in number two, five, or six.

I think those are our the you know, the more with the most potential the locations with the okay.

Would you take off I miss that?

Um what we're doing.

Oh, yeah, 10 and 7 and 9.

Okay.

Thank you.

Counselor Falconer.

Okay, so I would remove seven and ten from consideration altogether.

Um, and I would remove for now nine, because my dream is that site B is the home of a future public market.

Permanent house permanent place for the farmers market.

With housing above.

Um having said that.

Um, I'm not actually going to say that I have a preference for any of the ones because I actually tend to agree that we we should.

I don't I don't have a preference.

I I I think everyone has raised really good points.

I I love you know that I mean I think the conversation about two, five, and six is really important.

Um I think you know, potentially that's that's a future we should definitely consider.

Um, but I also love the idea of eight with a night market in the alley.

So I think that there's lots, and I think that also the conversation about timing really matters, what what size it is, like all of those are important considerations.

So I don't really have a top preference for any of them.

Um thing I'm gonna say just only because Greg's here and I have a captured audience, is that anywhere where we have angle parking, I'd love for us to consider changing it to rear-end angle parking because it's a lot safer.

I know it's a little unusual, but it's how we parallel park.

It should be how we also angle park.

Thank you.

Um I mean okay.

So I definitely remove seven and ten.

And um I agree with Councilor Falconer on nine.

I think that two five six with the Festival Street, and you know, looking at our 2040 plan and partnerships with Pacific and the UCC, like that's interesting.

I was like, I I think that's the direction we historically had been leaning, but the central city lot has me really intrigued.

Um, and so I'm excited to explore those more.

Great.

Uh, I don't think we necessarily have consensus on where to go, although we definitely heard two, five, and six pretty loudly from several counselors.

Uh, but we definitely have consensus on where to not go, um, specifically looking at seven, nine and resoundingly ten.

Correct.

Yeah, and do you need anything else from us?

Um, exactly what we needed.

Thank you very much.

Okay, perfect.

So I'm gonna adjourn this work session and we're gonna move right into if we could get these papers to staff.

Uh they're gonna take them in their public record.

Um okay, so now we're gonna move on to our next work session.

I'm gonna give Greg a chance to come up here while I do the topic.

Good question is city water and floor duration.

I feel like this is spelt wrong.

Whatever you wanted to do.

But anyways, fluoration, but isn't it?

Oh, it doesn't matter.

No public comment will be taken.

The council will take no formal action.

What's the mean with that?

Okay.

So we're gonna switch over and I'm gonna turn it over to Greg.

Okay.

Uh good evening.

Mayor, members of the council.

Hi, Greg.

Um tonight I'm here to talk about one of my favorite subjects, and that is uh fluoridation of uh our public water supply.

Um the agenda tonight will be uh a fewfold.

One to discuss the purpose, a little bit of background, budget impacts, um, our current practices, and then open it up for discussion.

So the purpose of tonight's uh uh work session is to um present to you um some of the history uh of how we got to where we are and um what we're doing currently, and then also to respond to some correspondence received and testimony received uh from residents and citizens expressing concern about fluoridation and the city's request city council's request for uh a work session on the subject.

So as a matter of background, uh the Forest Grove City Council adopted uh by resolution um that um we floor date uh starting over 24th, 1952.

So it's been around 74 years, and we've uh uh done it uninterrupted uh since.

Um in order to uh um back out of it, if uh that you are so inclined, it would require rescinding this resolution.

Uh the budget impacts uh are fairly minor by comparison to the overall uh water fund budget, the chemical procurement costs roughly about uh 25,000, and then uh operation maintenance and testing, uh which we have to do regularly, about three thousand dollars anyway.

So total of uh about 28,000 impact to the uh to the budget.

So our current practices uh is we receive um non-fluoridated water from two sources, one of our our watershed up in the coastal range, and then also uh the joint water commission at the location of 10th and Elm, which is the uh entry point for uh JWC finished water, and at each of those two locations, we put in a uh a metering system and an injection system, somewhat similar to the photo you see uh to the right.

Um the uh the big tub is the uh sodium fluoride, it's in liquid form, and then the the little box to the right with the blue um uh is the actual pump that injects it in and meters the uh uh the flow.

Um so each fluoride station is monitored in real time.

We use uh uh SCADA or supervisory control and data acquisition uh to monitor in real time all of the vital uh signs of the plant, and for the most part, what we can do is remotely make changes as necessary when we receive an alarm when uh parameters are exceeded for any uh measured um quantity on the uh of the plant.

Uh so the the system that we have is each of the operators has uh um uh Mac our IMAC pad iPad excuse me that uh is uh tied into our SCADA system and they can actually manipulate the uh the plant and make adjustments from the comfort of their living room or wherever they're at, or whatever.

Um and then one of the things that we have to do is to uh test uh daily the uh and calibrate to make sure that what is uh being injected into the system is accurate to the greatest extent possible, and that's part of the OM type work we do.

So the city's target fluoridation uh level is uh.7 milligrams per liter.

That's consistent with uh uh the US Department of Health and Human Services uh recommendations uh as well as the uh state of Oregon Health Authority.

Um all of our equipment has to uh be designed and installed in conformance uh with OHA standards and uh our plan sets are reviewed uh by OHA prior to any sort of installation.

Um approximately uh 25% of community water supplies in Oregon uh fluoridate, and uh that's roughly about a million uh people based on the latest OHA survey.

Um that leaves uh 75% in this state uh not fluoridated.

Um approximately 73% of community water supply nationally speaking uh fluoridates.

Uh fluoride is a uh a very common element and exists in most source water supplies.

Uh some states, particularly in the south, actually have to defluoridate to reduce the the naturally occurring uh fluoride in the water to get it into uh recommended guidelines.

Um in Oregon, there are 37 uh systems that fluoridate um serving a population of just over 900,000.

Um in the Portland Metro region area, um the city of Beaverton, City of Forest Grove and Dualaton Valley Water District all fluoridate.

Hillsboro for the most part does not fluoridate.

Uh, there is a portion of Hillsborough that is served by EBWD that is fluoridated.

Um the Joint Water Commission, just by matter of policy, um, does not fluoridate and allows individual membership to uh decide whether they want to fluoridate or not.

Um if you have any specific questions about uh fluoridation, there's a great website um uh US C D C on fluoridation and can answer a lot of those particular questions on public health benefits and just discussion.

Okay, any discussion on this?

I just want to say that um thank you.

Um that number is very important, 0.7.

And this is uh there's several um organizations, uh research that has been done uh because of this.

However, if you go beyond that number, it has been proven that it could have some effects, some effects and negative, you know, cognitive uh effects on kids particularly during the time that they're developing.

Um but they're also uh studies that um that have shown that these um to be exposed to these recommended levels actually um the kids have shown better cognition in secondary school, for example.

Uh but these kind of decrease as you get older, like at 60 years old, it wouldn't make a difference to me uh how much of that water I drink.

But thank you so much, Greg, for doing this because people have been asking, but there is a lot of research research there that there is no reason for planning at the number.

Counselor Falconer.

Yeah, I think it's I I thank you for mentioning that.

I think you know, the the studies that indicate cognitive um, you know detrimental effects are you know, they were studying populations that were getting more than double the amount, so 1.5.

Um, and that's where you see the data that supports those those um those claims.

And I think it's really important that you know we as counselors look at studies like that and we consider you know, like we don't draw conclusions that aren't actually supported by by the studies themselves.

So I think that in addition to the CDC, the Oregon Dental Association, the American Dental Association, all very strongly support flooring the water.

And I would also just note that if you have time to read about Calgary Um Canada, you do so because they just recently added fluoride back into the water after years of taking it out, because this has been a become a political ping pong ball, unfortunately.

Um, and that has real public health.

Anyone else?

Counselor Martinez.

Council Martinez, can you turn your microphone on or speak closer?

Sorry, I didn't have it on.

That's okay.

So the information I looked to usually gave pros and cons.

Um the yeah, as far as and I read the one from Canada.

The articles I tended to go to were um.edu or.gov because they would they're typically more peer-reviewed.

Um the I know the last year's um testing that was done for forest grove, it was 0.95 um PPM.

It was at the high end of the range, which probably, you know, I mean it's within it was in within range.

Um, same with um Joint Water Commission, theirs was 1.04 when tested last year.

Um, and what's the difference between I you know, I didn't go into that deeply was natural occurring fluoride, which is a mineral, and then fluoride that's a chemical.

Okay, and that could cause some difference there too.

I personally am not big on um lab type chemicals.

Um the more natural it can be, the better.

And uh I really don't know that this is something that we as a council should make a decision on the community.

I think it needs to go to the community for a vote because there are quite a few people who are against the fluoride.

Counselor Gustison.

Um Counselor Martinez, I I am you know along for the ride with you, even though I'm I'm from health care.

If you can go natural, um that's that's what I think is best.

But um, but in this case, as long as we stay within that safety marker, um not only um agreeing with with council president martinez and or excuse me, um Valencecuela and Counselor Falconer, it's uh it's not showing detriment to cognitive, like many people have have mentioned.

But um but in this case, as long as we stay within that safety marker, um not only um agreeing with with council president martinez and or excuse me, um Valenceela and Counselor Falconer, it's uh it's not showing detriment to cognitive like like many people have have mentioned, um and the value to dental health is is amazing, right?

It's it's gonna be a huge difference, I think.

Um if if we stop with the fluoride, especially in our lower income neighborhoods.

Um if we took the fluoride out, it it would be a significant um detriment to the dental health.

And when people's dental health suffer because they don't have um fluoride in their water, right?

It doesn't just affect them, it affects everybody because we're all paying for that in a different way.

Okay, go ahead, Counselor Martinez.

I want to add to that nowadays as well, we have other products that also deliver um fluoride to our teeth.

The um toothpaste, everybody has access to the toothpaste, um mouthwashes, um those sorts of products are well available.

And in addition to the fluoridated water, that can cause too much fluoride at some point too, especially kids who are swallowing the toothpaste.

So just thank you, Counselor.

Did I just want to make sure anyone else want to say yeah, I'm not hearing any consensus to move forward with anything different.

Um so just want to make sure everyone had a chance to okay.

Any further questions?

No.

Okay, with that, I'm gonna adjourn this work session and we will reconvene at seven o'clock.

So 7 02, maybe.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.