Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know about usually back when we don't talk about stuff.

Something else.

Well, good evening and welcome to Fort Met City Board Records Study Session on this January twenty-seventh.

Year twenty twenty-six.

Uh this time we'll just simply go to the first item.

Mr.

Dingley, you recognize.

Is that all we need?

I think that's all we need.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

The first item tonight is a discussion of a proposed renewal agreement with uh Main Street Fort Smith for services related to downtown development and coordination of the Main Street Arkansas program in downtown Fort Smith.

Last week administration proposed renewal of an agreement and this study session discussion was requested.

One proposal was received from 646 downtown, which has since changed executive directors and several board members and now operates as Main Street Fort Smith.

While coordinating and supporting downtown activities in it and interacting with business and property owners is an important part of this agreement.

Um here to review the organization's 2025 activities and respond to questions from the board.

Ms.

Hager, will you join us at the front table, please?

Does it matter which seat?

Just pick one and bring the microphone close to you.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, City Directors, Administration.

On behalf of myself and the Main Street Board of Directors, we appreciate this opportunity to share with you and the community some of the activities that our organization has been doing over the past year and some of the incredible things happening in downtown Fort Smith.

I prepared a short presentation for you that highlights items from our 2025 annual report, which you should have in your packet.

That's also a public report that's on our website.

So we were 646 downtown.

That is still our legal entity.

But in June of 2024, well, July of 2024, we changed our name to Main Street Fort Smith, and we did this to better align ourselves with our designation as a main street community.

That rebranding went really well.

We've actually been a main street community since 2020, so we wanted to make sure that our name reflected that designation.

We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to revitalizing downtown Fort Smith.

We serve as a community catalyst for economic vitality by connecting partners, aligning resources, and activating programs that drive downtown growth.

We are a designated Main Street America community.

We are also part of the Main Street Arkansas program.

This is really important.

It's vital for what we do, and it's really important for our community for several reasons.

We um we get access to a lot of resources, including funding and technical support by being a main street community.

For example, Main Street America, they sent one of their consultants here this year.

They come every other year to do a community assessment.

So they look at what are we doing as an organization, what is my board doing, and how are we doing as a district?

Several of you were actually able to meet with Ms.

Thompson when she was in town, the mayor, several directors, Jeff, some of our state elected officials and other stakeholders.

Um she really gave us some great feedback on, you know, we told her, hey, this is what we're doing, here's some of our challenges, here's what our community is saying, and we got some great feedback from her.

Main Street, Arkansas actually provides free design and small business consulting to members of our district.

Um, and there's been several properties and business owners who have taken advantage of those programs this year.

Um so we work with you know property owners and partner to invest in redevelopment, redevelopment in downtown and business growth.

Um so some measurable outcomes from 2025 that I really wanted to point out and highlight for you.

We saw 15 million dollars in commercial investment in downtown in 2025 alone.

We had 19 new businesses open in downtown.

Um, for a little comparison, last year and in 2020, so in 2024 and 23, we were got maybe a handful of businesses that opened, but we also had about a handful that closed uh that closed.

So it was pretty stagnant.

This year we only had four businesses closed compared to the 19 new businesses that opened.

Um that 1.8 million and estimated economic impact for major events, a lot of that is was tracked from the Steel Horse Rally.

Um there's several other events, so that numbers honestly significantly higher.

Um, but we you know we kind of get those numbers from the AMP Commission, and they're a little harder to track that exact economic impact.

Um, but there's many events that happen downtown that bring people to you know shop in our stores, eat in our restaurants, and stay in our hotels.

I'm gonna tell you a little bit more about some of that $15 million investment here in just a second.

I'm also gonna tell you more in this presentation about our community survey that we did.

Um so we'll get to those results in just a moment.

So the downtown investment.

We all remember when um the the fishback building burned in November of 2024, which was such a devastating blow to downtown to lose an anchor business and an anchor building as you're coming over the Garrison Avenue Bridge.

But Griffin Properties and the Griffin family are uh they actually had a groundbreaking uh in December of 2025 to build an brand new building that is gonna pay beautiful homage to the original building.

This is a rendering of what that space is going to look like when it's complete, um, which they you know expect at least about a year, but that's a 2.8 million dollar investment to bring that new building back to downtown Fort Smith.

723 Garrison Avenue, that's the old Regions Building, which is a very large building that was vacant for a brief time.

The Little Fields Company has bought that building.

They are almost complete with their three million dollar renovation of that space.

They're going to be bringing hundreds of employees to that building, so hundreds of new people working downtown.

They're also adding some incredible safety measures to our district by adding security lighting to the alleyway next to their building, also behind and in the parking lot in the adjacent parking lot.

524 Garrison Avenue has also seen an incredible multi-story renovation.

Discover Fort Smith, the River Valley Democrat Gazette, and Regions are home.

That's their home in that building.

They also have several C-suites, and the Fort Smith Visitor Center opened there on December 9th.

So we have the Fort Smith Visitor Center, which is beautiful, and it's on Garrison Avenue, which is great.

So I wanted to also point out 17 North Tenth Street.

It's actually 17 and 19, the two buildings connect there together.

This was a space that was vacant for quite some time.

A property owner bought it at the beginning of the year very quickly, renovated, and now Fort Smith Turret, no, what's it called?

Second Trail Co.

is in that space, taking up the whole bottom floor of both buildings.

They also have a photography student studio upstairs and some additional space that is renovated and ready to go.

We also got some EV chargers near the convention center, which is a great addition to downtown.

So what's Main Street's role in this?

We are not only tracking this investment, but we're also helping to connect owners to different resources to support this continued reinvestment.

One of my favorite projects of 2025 and a great example of how Main Street collaborates with a lot of the stakeholders in downtown was the 7th Street Pedestrian Corridor.

So this is the alleyway that connects Garrison and Rogers Avenue between the BG Hendrix State Building and 702 Garrison Avenue.

We put a hundred and ninety-foot sidewalk mural in this alleyway.

It's done by it was done by Tiger Sasha, who is a Northwest Arkansas based artist.

It's very bright, very colorful, very eye-catching.

We also put string lighting, bistro lighting, all the way down the alleyway behind 702 Garrison over the parking lot of 704 Garrison and connected it to the parking garage.

So this is not only beautification, but it's safety.

It's providing a well-lit, beautiful space for the employees of the city of the BG Centric state, the state building, and also just folks trying to make their way from Garrison over to the convention center or the bakery district, a well-lit attractive space.

And also they can now get to the parking lot in it or the parking deck, and there's lights there.

So this project was on the CBID's strategic action plan.

It was also a project we had been looking at before.

So we're like, hey, let's not duplicate efforts.

Let us lead this project.

We got a grant through Arkansas Heritage for the it was a public art grant to pay for the mural.

They matched that grant because it was we had to have a match for it.

And then we were able to use our downtown revitalization grant, which is a grant that we only receive by being a main street community to pay for the lighting.

And that the lights were about a $12,000 project.

So I see people all the time in this alleyway taking selfies really and lots of videos online.

So it's it's definitely been a hot spot.

We had a really fun block party to celebrate the completion of the mural, and we had about 200 people show up and it was raining, so I felt pretty good about that.

One project that is going to have a significant impact to our district that we launched in 2025 is our mini grant program.

So this program, it focuses on exterior improvements to buildings downtown, to businesses and buildings downtown.

And when we were looking at, okay, what are we going to prioritize when we when we look at these applicants?

We really wanted to focus on safety, historic preservation, and beautification.

So projects that had lighting, signage, facade improvements, those are the types of projects we were looking to support.

We had 12 applications, and we were able to, it's actually have seven projects, it's actually eight projects that we're going to award $16,000 total to.

So we're taking 16 of that $30,000 towards these specific projects.

Of course, the grantees already know that they're getting that they've been awarded the grant, but we were supposed to publicly announce it today at a reception, but because of the roads, we ended up canceling.

So that's going to be on February 6th.

So that's really exciting.

So one thing that really stands out to me about this project is it's a reimbursement grant.

So the applicants have to match the money.

They have to do the work.

And once the work's completed in the time that we allotted, then we pay them back.

So it's not like we're just giving them the money and they kind of get to run with it.

And it's has to they had the projects had to be approved by Main Street Arkansas as well.

So you had 12 different property and business owners downtown who were willing to put in the time and the money and the work to improve their businesses.

And I thought that was just really encouraging.

Of course, we love our downtown events.

Last year we did 10 free concerts that featured local, regional, and national artists.

These are take place at our beautiful city park, Harry E.

Kelly Park down on the riverfront, and we do it there at the amphitheater.

We have you know lots of, it's family friendly, so not only is it free, but it's family friendly.

It's in a city park, so it's outside.

Folks can bring in their dog, their own food, um, you know, their families.

We have a bounce house for the kids.

We really try to make it a community event, and that was the fifth year that we had done the the concert series.

And we are gonna get uh we have already been approved for another grant cycle, which I'll tell you more about that too.

Um so this not only are we creating a space for our community to gather and an opportunity to see high caliber music for free.

We're activating downtown on weeknights because we do our concerts on Thursday night.

We also attract a regional audience as well.

Um we also do Invest Fort Smith, and that is a one-day economic development summit.

So it's a way to connect entrepreneurs, developers, and investors across the city and and the region, um, you know, with each other and give them some downtown focus investment and growth opportunities.

Uh this year we had a sold-out attendance of 120 people signed up.

And of course, every year do ghouls on garrison, which brings thousands of people downtown to um go trick-or-treating at the downtown businesses, and um we've done the for the second year we had Coco Crawl, uh, which is a super fun family-friendly event, and also our downtown holiday experience where we do a tree lighting at Sisterna Park.

Um this year, unfortunately, it got canceled, which I was so sad about because we had the Northside and Southside choirs were signed up to come and uh perform as well as the Western Arkansas Ballet and the River Valley Community Band.

So hope we can get all of them to come back next year because we um we got rained out this year.

Um, like I said a minute ago, we have been awarded another three-year grant cycle with the Levitt Foundation.

So this ensures that we're going to have free live music programming in downtown Fort Smith through 2028.

This is a competitive national program that we applied for.

Like I said, this we've already had this grant for five years, and now we're gonna have it again for another three years.

So this really shows how our community can leverage this local investment of downtown to sustain additional funding and events for our community.

We talked a little bit about the survey earlier, so I wanted to share some of the insights from that survey.

We had um more than a thousand people fill out the survey, and what was interesting is 87% of those people said that they visit downtown regularly.

So we wanted to focus the the results and the data, like okay, let's really dig into what the people who know the district well, um, what do they like?

Why do they come?

Why what what draw keeps them from maybe not coming as often?

What keeps people from not wanting to live downtown or makes them want to live downtown?

Um so first of all, the primary reasons that people visit right now are events and festivals, dining and nightlife, live music and art experiences.

What the community would like to see more of are experienced base businesses and activities.

So think like an escape room, something you can do with your friends, your family, or like um you can do as a group.

Uh also they want to see more active storefronts and public spaces and improved visibility and lighting after dark.

So we also wanted to know okay, what what are some of the challenges that downtown faces in the eyes of our community?

And really, when we looked at what show was showing up, there was a perception of downtown being unsafe, but it was not tied to crime or enforcement.

It was really tied to the visibil the the visible environment of downtown.

So you know, vacant storefronts, buildings that need that need repair, uh board you know, a boarded up window, that sort of thing, lighting, um, activity levels was part of the safety concern, just seeing more people.

Um people also mentioned the visibility of the homeless population um in and around downtown.

So excuse me, this survey um was actually created by Main Street America.

That's where we got the survey itself.

Um and we we disseminated it through our website, our social media.

Um it was mentioned many times on local media, um, and I also went to some specific community events and handed out paper um as well.

So we are taking those results to help drive our uh strateg of essentially we call them transformational strategies um at Main Street, but they're essentially our strategic action plan.

Like what are our goals as an organization?

How can we impact the district over the next three to five years?

So based on those um goals, those strategies, here's here's some of our goals, and these are our priorities really going into 2026.

Um the first is to implement our mini grant program, which we're already well underway with.

Um and this is a fiscal year program, so starts in July, ends in June because that's how the grant that we're using to pay for it runs.

Um so hopefully we'll see s eight incredible projects complete by June, and then we're gonna start the process over again.

Our goal is to make this an annual um program, and we've had a lot of really good feedback about that from people who are uh business owners and property owners within the district.

So your to your timeline on those mini grants is June.

Yes, for them to be complete.

Okay.

That's right.

Yeah, and then we'll start the process again.

I think we'll try to start the application process as early as July and August.

Like we want to want to give them as much time as we can to let them get their projects complete once they know that they're getting the award.

Um another thing that we're gonna launch this year that's new for Main Street is a pop-up small business incubator.

I actually got this idea from a community in uh Virginia called Frostburg.

Um there it's a small little community in the mountains, but I met their director.

She was given a presentation at a Main Street America event.

Um they're a Main Street America community, and there's it the program is twofold in what it does.

One, it provides a very low-risk, low-cost way for a business to come in and have a brick and mortar space.

So maybe this is a business who's that is either a fledgling business or never had a brick and mortar space.

Um, maybe they're more in like um, you know, a booth rent situation currently, or maybe they're trying to expand into downtown and they don't know if it's gonna work for them.

So we would provide a either free or very low-cost space for them to be for a matter of like three to six months, but we would also have the program in a vacant space that's currently for rent.

So the idea is not only are we providing a service and help for business owners, we're also hopefully going to get the space rented, either by the pop-up participants or somebody else that just says, oh wow, look how great that space is when it's actually active.

Um and that's what Frostburg did, and they had wild success with getting their buildings um rented, some spaces rented.

So we're gonna taste take the Frostburg approach and um I've actually been talking to their executive director, they've been extremely helpful.

Um I've already had great conversations with University of Arkansas Center for Economic Development.

They want to partner with us on this, um, as does the Arkansas Small Business Technology Development Center.

So we've already done a lot of great groundwork to get this program off the ground in 2026.

Um we also were able about two weeks ago to hire a second employee.

So we now have a downtown growth and grant specialist.

Um and this is also going to allow me the capacity and organization, the capacity to be able to do a program like this.

Um one of the ways that we thought uh that we are looking into, and we we've been doing a lot of research in this last year, so we can kick it off really this year, is a window clean program that will help to activate some of the vacant spaces as well.

So think of like a see yourself here.

It's like a you know, it looks like a restaurant or you know, something like that, um, or just an itinerary of what you can do in downtown Fort Smith in a day, or just a really cute, like welcome to downtown clean.

Um I've already had some conversations, preliminary conversations with property owners and real estate agents about partnering on this, doing like a cost share, um, and we already have money earmarked to buy the clings.

We also, of course, want to continue our arts and events programming.

Um we're gonna advance placemaking and safety projects as they you know as they come up, and we want to use that community data to really guide investment in downtown.

Um, you know, downtown is really consuming continuing to see a lot of great momentum.

Um we see that from the private investment of renovation and buying buildings of of property or businesses opening in downtown businesses and property owners wanting to um you know improve their properties.

We we're seeing some great events not only events that are programmed by Main Street Fort Smith but other events that we support like the Fall Festival.

So I'm happy to take any questions and answer anything that I that I can okay thank you very much.

Any questions from the board Director Neil Martin.

Amen thank you.

From a from a vacant storefront perspective what are we looking at in terms of vacant vacant businesses.

Yeah so I don't have like an exact number or percentage but I I will point out there there are several vacant storefronts right now.

And some of those are large chunks that are owned by you know a single entity.

So for example the former Tiptop building it's a it's a law a lot of storefront in that block and there's one little building next to it that those owners don't actually own but then the next door front they own it as well.

So almost that entire block that's vacant is one o owner and it is for sale.

And then you have the Ward Garrison and he owns it what was the old um coffee shop those sacred grounds I think is part of that building and then he also owns the the old law firm that was next to it and it's not really happening.

So like those are vacant storefronts that you know we see as like a an opportunity for us maybe for the clean program like hey let's get something in there but we also have some vacant buildings that are ready to go.

So when I think about vacancy in downtown I kind of put them in different buckets.

So you have some great buildings in the 900 block that are vacant but they are white boxed beautiful ready for someone to take them there's also some businesses in the 200 block on the north side of the building I'm sorry of the district and they're also ready to go.

They're ready for tenants.

And then the crest building that has the mural on the front she has got that downstairs beautiful and ready to be rented she just has to take that mural off and put it in glass.

Is this the the lady that bought it uh specifically to like she she re-in she she bought the the old channel five building as well okay yes yeah um Diana Sims is her name yeah and um it's not public but she is one of our grant recipients and her building is going to be amazing.

So I look at these buildings that yes they're vacant but they're either currently under construction or already ready for tenants and then some that are just not.

So like with Tip Top and and the the Ward Garrison building what I mean these these these owners are just sitting on them right and they're I mean they're paying property taxes they're you know they're just but they're not doing anything.

I mean did they have any I mean do we know who those owners are they local the family that owns Tiptop is local but I don't know that they currently live here and the and I do know that they are trying to sell the property.

Okay trying to sell it there's okay I okay I do hear that's one of the things that that people have have concerns about.

Just like your your thing your thing said it would be it would be helpful to get what that number is.

Sure we can work on that just so you know I think we uh if you know if we if we move forward with this I think that would be something that we look at um in 2027 and say okay we were here now we're here.

Yeah what is that look and hopefully we we're seeing less uh empty storefronts and I agree with you I I I had a conversation with an Eagle Scout last night that I had to interview a city director and you know we talked about homelessness which we'll talk about here in just a second but um he said well what can I do as a as a uh as a young person I said just go just go downtown yeah that's great you and your friends go downtown just be there um go out to eat hang out just do that kind of stuff so um you know I think uh I think that the the empty buildings does give it a a sense of uh emptiness and uh you know I think that that's something that that we need to that we want to look at and measure I would say um I've I've talked to you and I talked to Talisha when when we did this and one of the things that I said is what is our return on investment um you know if if we're if we're giving you know uh 1500 to uh Main Street Fort Smith every year what how much are you getting back in grants and I was trying to make notes as you were going through um you know you you mentioned the Seventh Street pedestrian corridor um the $30,000 downtown revitalization and the the Levett Amp series what what's the what's the total dollar amount of of grants that have that are coming into Main Street?

So in 2025 um the grants and matching funds for us was 127,500 and then we saw probably about 2000 right at 2000 and additional sponsorships that were specific to programming that we did so um you know Coco Crawl or invest Fort Smith um additional monies for Levit that sort of thing that were part of the branch.

So um, you know, Coco Crawl or Invest Fort Smith, um additional monies for Levit, that sort of thing that went to the part of the grant.

That's right.

And I think that's good.

That's what we want to be able to see.

Um that's one of the one of the measurements that that I have.

Um you talked about those 19 new businesses, and I can't remember if you mentioned them here.

Could you just give us and the and the the uh those in the audience kind of some names of of some of those new businesses?

Yeah, the um Second Trail Co.

which is on 10th Street, we talked about that one that's in the uh 17th, North Tenth, uh the haunt is the Second Trail Co is is like a uh it's like a uh resale shop for it's like car hearts and North Face and man, they have got some great stuff.

They have these like ladies uh North Face jackets for like $25.

Yeah, I saw that and I was I uh I think they put a post there.

Somebody retweeted something and I saw it and I was like, that's the same thing.

Just that great stuff.

Yeah.

Great stuff.

Um the haunt is the photography studio that is above it.

Um the parlor opened in the oh, is that the I think it's the five hundred block, which is another retail store.

Um there were uh uh the downtown corner market opened um at the beginning of the year.

There's also several BNU businesses that opened in Brunwick.

Um there's probably oh at least three that were just in Brunwick.

And I can provide you guys with a full list.

I can email that to you easily tomorrow.

I think that's I think that's good to to hear and and see.

Um how many people live downtown?

Like I know downtown is not just Garrison Avenue and Rogers, but like how many people live in the geographic area?

The the only number I had on on file, um, because I did look for that is was a five mile drive radius from 2024.

So I don't feel like that's accurate information.

So I'm gonna look into that and I can provide that to you once I get it.

So I don't have that exact number.

Um what do you think from an initiative perspective would support residential growth?

Because uh you know, I I think you've got to the this challenge with downtown is do we do stuff and hope people come or do we bring people here and do stuff, right?

It's it's you nobody I don't know if anybody's uh necessarily figured that out.

Well when I lived in Kansas City, that's the exact same thing that they were doing before the Power and Light District came before, you know, I mean the Power and Light District is massive now.

But they were they were trying to figure out do we do we build lofts and condos and bring people down here and then do power and light or does power and light enough to to draw people down?

So what how do we how can we encourage folks coming down here and living here?

So when um I mentioned that Lisa Thompson with the uh with Main Street Ark America came for a visit uh back in I believe it was August and you know, somebody asked her, like, what is there like a silver bullet to revitalization?

And you know, she said no, of course, because there's lots of things that you have to do, but she did specifically mention downtown living and she said downtown housing was was the number one way to see significant growth in a district like ours.

Um and you know, she she really talked about looking at um you know redevelopment of the existing buildings, how do we really look at the multi-use of the existing buildings, but also opportunities for infill.

There are several, you know, vacant lots um that are especially off garrison, like on A Street.

Um that would be a great place and you have to have a different types of housing.

It can't just be just you know, a high end apartment that's over um, you know, a law office or something, like you have to have a multitude of different types of housing.

And we have a great opportunity for that for either like um, you know, a a larger apartment complex with like a you know, m amenities um and some of those infill spaces or you know, the smaller, like kind of like tiny homes.

Um, you know, and she really mentioned that there's that it takes um you know, a city and other policy making entities working together to find ways to incentivize.

Yeah, and I don't I don't necessarily want to want to think that Main Street Fort Smith is solely responsible for all the things that we do.

I think this board has a has a has a plays a role in that.

And so I think it's important if if there's something that you see that the board needs to do, we want to do it.

We'll talk I'll talk about homelessness in just a second.

But um I think that's I think we've got to come alongside.

We've got to play our role in in in how we do this.

So I'm happy to do some additional research um through Main Street America and Matriarch and Law and see what other communities have done to incentivize, you know, and like you know, we we try to provide information on like the um historic tax credits um state and national and um other resources that you can get through the state.

So we try to connect investors and property owners with those resources.

Um but I'm happy to do some additional research on in you know municipality specific incentives, um whether that's just a making it easier to apply for a permit, you know.

Right, right.

Um so I want to know how many people live downtown.

I think that's a measurable that we've got to have going forward.

Also think uh a measurable is how many people work downtown.

Um do you have do you have any of that data?

I don't have that number.

I think getting those two data points would be would be helpful for us because I think that that drives some some things.

Um I did want to talk about the survey real quick.

Um what was interesting to me is is and and you you said it just a minute ago, 87% of the respondents come down here regularly.

My concern is the people that didn't do the survey that don't come down here.

I think that's our population.

I mean, you're looking at a thousand people, that's you know, roughly one percent of uh the overall Fort Smith.

That ninety-nine percent is is the big thing, and I was my my sole concern or my largest concern was how do we drive those people that don't want to come downtown or are scared of coming downtown because uh homelessness or empty storefronts, the emptiness of it all, or you know, variety of different reasons they don't want to come downtown.

How do we activate those people?

I know you said that you you were honing in on the the 87% that do come downtown of that thousand people, but how do we activate those folks that are hesitant to come downtown?

Yeah, I think a lot of those people will be more interested to come down for events until you know they come down for a big event and they're like, oh, downtown's cute, downtown's cool, let me actually come down here and go to dinner, you know, visit a restaurant.

Um I think that that's a great way to attract people who don't come downtown regularly.

Um, you know, I think our focus is really has to be on the visible environment of downtown.

So when people do come downtown for fall festival, um which saw about at least four or five thousand people, you know, last year in in October, um how do we, you know, make them see, oh wow, look at this.

Look at that.

That's great.

Because we uh we have all the murals, they're incredible.

We have an entertainment district.

We have a lot to offer already.

Um so I think when people come downtown for something special, if we're showing them something else they want, maybe they'll come back.

Right.

I and uh I agree with that.

Um it's just a challenge to get that's that's the big that's the big group right there.

So that's well, and let me uh let me say this too um to your point of how do we attract them and let them know, like because maybe that's part of the problem is making sure that people know that events are happening downtown or that these businesses are located downtown.

And one thing that um one of the reasons the board my board hired me is because uh I have a I was a journalist for a decade, so I'm very familiar with how local media works and um PR works.

And if you went to Google right now and Googled Main Street and hit news, you'd see at least 50 stories that we've been quoted in about downtown.

Now some of them are not positive, but the vast majority is positive interaction, positive stories in, you know, at Five News, 4029, KnWA, um, talk business and politics, uh, you know, state and regional publications that are just simply getting the word out.

When we want people just to see downtown Fort Smith.

I get interviewed a lot by um, you know, different radio programs, including some in Northwest Arkansas.

So I think just continuing to share that positive news about downtown is a is vital to not only my organization, but when people ask me what can I do, I just say, hey, share some positive news.

You can't go downtown and spend money, which is what we would wish you would do too.

Share positive news.

Right.

Um let's talk about homelessness.

Uh I mean the data figurated out.

That was one of the areas that that people have concerns about.

Yes.

Um, you know, we we had a ordinance come before the board that did not pass that um were kind of stiffer penal stiffer not penalties, stiffer enforcement of um what homeless were allowed to do.

Um really it from my perspective, the goal was not uh punishing homelessness.

The goal was getting homelessness in line with the services that that can support them, um like Hope Campus and those kinds of things.

Uh a lot of people took it like it was a punitive thing, like we were penalizing people for being homeless, and that wasn't the case at all.

But hanging out in the downtown area, asking people for money um is probably not the best the best place for them.

Getting them into services and and getting them uh where they need to be is the way to go.

And just for the board's perspective, next step, if you looked at the the building permit report today, next step just did their building permit for their um non-congregational housing over on Sixth Street.

So it looks like that's rolling.

And I think that's been uh a part of the um part of a draw of of homelessness in the in the downtown and entertainment district area.

So um what were you familiar with the ordinance that came before the board?

I was familiar with it.

I don't know it.

I'm not I don't know well, but I'm familiar.

I mean what what are what are successful successful main street downtown areas doing to address that problem and address the very thing that your survey said, which is I don't want to come downtown because of uh safety and homelessness.

So one thing that is happening now that um I think is a huge benefit, and I think maybe it's just because it's so new, a lot of people don't know.

Um we have uh an ambassador program and a dedicated downtown Fort Smith police officer.

And you know, that's that's where we have a lot of nightlife.

It's where we have a lot marked most of our tourists.

So I mean it would make sense if you go to like a different, a larger city, go to Kansas City, you probably see have a a visible presence in a space where you have a lot of people walking around.

Um visibility of police officers makes people feel safe.

Um so I you know I think that that's a good thing for the district.

Um I can tell you Corporal Solis um has been an incredible yes, where he's here.

He's been an incredible um asset to downtown.

Um because he does make contact with our homeless and our unhoused population.

Um asking them, you know, are you in the right spot?

Do you know where to go?

Like those making those touch points and also when you see an officer, it kind of deters you from doing maybe something you shouldn't be, which is a lot of times just leaving trash.

The trash is a problem.

Yeah.

Um and he asked them to pick up their trash.

Like, hey guys, if you're gonna be here, can you can you pick up your trash?

Can you go throw that away?

And that's been I have seen a huge improvement with the trash in front, because I'm in the 400 block.

So I'm right next to Casey's, which is a hot spot for folks to hang out.

I've I've uh one of the downtown business owners said that is a terrible look.

Not Casey's itself, but just what happens around cases is a terrible entry point to our city.

Yeah, I'm the corner office right next to it.

Um and I can tell you that there has been a significant decline in activity and absolutely a significant decline in um the amount of trash that I have seen since Corporal Solis took this position a few months ago.

Um and I know that the ambassadors regularly, you know, have a touch point with these folks as well.

And so I do think that that is helping.

Do we as a board, I'll just talk to this group.

Do we as a board need to go back and revisit some of our uh enforcement opportunities in the downtown area?

Um I mean we we hear it from people, the data bears it out, yet this same issue that you we're talking about now, we talked about last year, we talked about the year before, we're talking about the year before.

We're not fixing it.

And it's my contention that we start to do something to fix it.

I don't know what what everybody's thoughts are, but we're not it seems to me like we're we're continuing to have the same thing.

And whether it's real, whether it's perception.

Are you uh are you proposing uh larger police presence?

Well, uh uh yeah, maybe.

Um I I don't I don't know.

I don't know.

I mean, I was when we had that ordinance, I don't when we had the ordinance in front of us, the grants pass order.

The grants pass ordinance.

Um I didn't know if that was gonna solve the problem.

But I I thought it was uh a good step in the right direction.

Uh but I'm open to suggestions from the seven of us to try to figure out how we can how we can effectively do it to where the my mom would want to come downtown and would feel safe and comfortable.

Um or my wife and kids would come down here and be safe and comfortable.

Um, you know, without without me around or or something like that.

So I think that's that's something I'd like to I'd like to hear.

Okay.

Um direct settled and then direct you can't.

I'll start with what you said, Neil.

You know, what we see here is not different than other cities are seeing.

So maybe part of the discussion is to be is what other cities are doing besides Grant Pass, what other cities are doing to to help their development downtown.

Not not the large ones, not Dallas, not but the mid-sized communities, uh Chattanooga, you know, uh places like that that have thrived.

Maybe there's an opportunity to see what they've done differently to solve maybe one or s help issue help with those issues because you I go to Kansas City for volleyball and say at least twice a year, and what we see here is what they see up there.

Louis twice a year, and what we see here is what they see up there.

It's even worse up there because it's a bigger city.

Um I'm not really wanting to focus on the big cities, I would focus on the medium-sized cities to see what they're doing.

Maybe there's something we could take from them.

It's just we we have we have a smaller population and any perception of of challenges is going to be a good thing.

And it's gonna be the gateway from the skateway from the west over from the bridge, so it is that.

Uh a couple of things.

I want to go back when Neil talked about.

I'd like to know how many Airbnbs are downtown also.

Okay.

Um how many people live?

I'd like to know how many people are how many of those places are Airbnbs.

I think I think there's more than we think.

Um I think uh I know of about 20, but um I don't know exact numbers.

So I can't.

That'd be the you know, fifty percent Airbnb, 50 percent people live in.

What what's the macro markup they'd be interested in to see?

I don't think it's quite that high.

I think it's mostly I think the mostly living?

Yeah, it's mostly living.

And I can tell you, I don't know the exact number of of people living downtown, but um I talked to some property owners.

Um one of my board members is with Griffin Properties, and they have residential and they're they stay full.

Okay.

People want to live downtown, which is good.

Uh you talked about uh entrepreneurial center almost is what you talked about.

Uh the city did that about twelve, thirteen years ago.

Okay.

I'd ask you to kind of find what what we did right, what did went wrong there, so that we we don't try to repeat those mistakes that we've made in the past, but we did do that before.

It was rented space, it was there.

Uh I know former director Michael Renz, who lives in Oklahoma City now was big big into that, and there were some entrepreneurs that did that.

So maybe an opportunity to go back in the uh archives and find that information to help you uh kick that off so you don't repeat the what we did in the past.

That'd be great.

The more data the better.

More data the better.

Um you talk about what what brings people here?

Uh there's two parades a year that bring people downtown.

But yeah, businesses aren't open during the parades.

And to me, I think there's there's there's a start of it.

You want to bring people downtown when they're already here for something, give them a good reason to go into a shop, go to go visit a restaurant.

It's hard to go visit stores when they're closed when those parades are happening.

Uh when the Christmas parade, we went to Garrison Goodies and Garrison Goodies is awesome.

But it's really good.

But that's I get that's the reason I went there.

But but not everything's open.

And then the other one's Memorial Day.

Well, everybody wants off Memorial Day.

Well, you'll make your business thrive, maybe you have to make that sacrifice to be open that day because it's Memorial Day.

If you don't, then it's hard to what drives business.

The last thing is for Jeff.

Uh Jeff, I believe in the county wide sales tax ordinances, uh there is money set aside for downtown development or downtown events.

Uh downtown items.

So I'd like the money for this to come out of that countywide sales tax uh allotment that was passed by the voters or put to that spot.

I think it's three percent of that county wide sales tax goes to downtown for events.

So I'd like to maybe that that allocation goes to that instead of coming out of administration's budget.

So where's that?

Where's that being allocated today?

What for currently it's paid out of the city administrators budget, which is allocated to all four.

No, I mean if if if that's if that's a true statement, where's that money going today?

Well, it also supports the uh the downtown and riverfront program for the parks department.

Uh that's where large that's largely where it goes.

I mean I I think this will be cleaner just to pull it out of that money and I I could agree with that.

That way it's it's uh voters voted to put it towards downtown development or downtown events or whatever.

I can't remember the exact word, but I remember that over the weekend.

So I thought best possibly just bring it here and bring it here, and that's where it should come out of.

So I just uh real quick to answer your question.

I pulled up the Airbnb app, and it looks like there's about fifteen around the downtown area from Garrison uh over to 6th Street.

So 12 to 15.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

That's all help.

Thank you.

Uh Director Kent was next in the queue.

And then it was okay with the board.

I'd like to hear from the officer that patrols downtown.

He's he's the boots on the ground.

And I think we do have uh uh uh representative uses Segway downtown.

So uh Director Campbell and then if you come just kind of give us your thoughts on a downtown safety and some things that you see that we might be able to do.

Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, man, for being here and your many of your board that are here tonight.

Um I know uh I've gotten good feedback from ones I've asked about Main Street and what do we what do you think about Amanda and what do you think about what their initiatives are?

And one of the things that people have complimented you all on is the networking with other organizations that have the idea in the same spirit and heart and passion.

And so I think one of the things that Fort Smith can do is it can create some silos of of good hearted, compassionate people, and we need to bring all that force together, and that's what I hear that y'all are doing, and so I just want to say kudos to you on that.

A few things because we've covered a lot of information as I've said here and listen.

Is there any comment about out like a a public bathroom?

When I think about bringing kids or events, things of that nature.

Have you all thought any about that?

Has there been any conversations about public restrooms and some ideas there?

I know that that conversation has come up in our organization in the past, not since I've been there in terms of trying to get one built, but I know that that has come up with our organization before, and that is something we hear often.

I know that um we used to have the ice skating rink downtown.

Uh they moved it to Hunt's Park the last couple of years, um, so it would be closer to um Creekmore.

But one of the reasons they did that um was because of the lack of lighting and bathroom facilities that at in the evenings um for the public.

So I I do think that there would be an absolute benefit to having some, you know, some bathroom public bathrooms.

And because of our um unhoused population, you know, I'm I mean it to make it safe and nice for everyone, and there would probably need to be some sort of cameras closed at certain time of the night, not open all night long.

Um but I think that that would be an asset to downtown.

Well, and maybe that's where we can allow our police patrol to presence to be a little more known.

Uh like you said, lighting.

Um I I wonder, you know, and I don't have a solution in the sense of, but I do wonder the city hall building, is there an opportunity in some way to tying that to being a part of it?

Is there other vacant businesses that one of those could be converted in?

And I I don't know.

I don't have the I know we do have restrooms at the riverfront, but even then I feel like it's a gamble of is it unlocked, is it locked, and then you can't count on it.

And so big thanks to Fort Smith Coffee Co.

for when when I come, I just hey kids, we're gonna stop here and then we're gonna go, and this is what you need to do.

But I I think that would be important as we talk about bringing families or driving business.

Uh to the conversation of homelessness, I I would say a few things.

One, I think that it is worth bringing back a consideration of something.

Uh I think having city legal team put together a thought of that.

I think the thing that I heard from the crowd as a person sitting there was we can't just take these people to jail, you know, so what do we do?

But the city answered that by allowing the Hope Pavilion to go to Hope Campus and for the zoning, which passed by the zoning for HOTE campus to look at expanded services, you know, the city originally put together a committee years ago that conceptualized Hope Campus to be a hosting place of resources for those that have a heart for the unhoused population.

And I think if we could just go back and cheerlead that, I think that's important because now we have a space too.

But I do think when we think about that, if that is the the ask, and I think you know, as we talk about consulting for downtown economic growth, someone, whether it be Hope Campus or another organization is gonna have to think about street outreach, because I think the more we can think about mobilizing, not only does Hope Campus a spot, but it has a support from the city so that they can have people coming out and saying, hey, if you need help, this is where we would like to help you, and this is how we can get you over there and make sure you get, you know, some needs and resources that you need.

So I think to me, the the administration needs to answer who is the outreach street outreach.

And I know that we have police officers that will do that, but if they're inundated with trying to be in taking care of safety, this person is more thinking about resources, relationship, and maybe helping someone take those big steps.

I mean, one of the things that they feel like the world is crumbled, it's hard for those sometimes for them to admit that they, you know, it's hard to ask for help for many people.

And I think a street outreach person could bring that scope in more and more and more, creating that foster friendship.

And so I I do think at some level we should be bringing this discussion back to to the board to be considering.

And uh and I I'm all for what you all are talking about.

I think obviously even if you as already voiced, if your return back was 150 and the investment was 150, and then you look at the additional things that you're doing as well, then I think there is a return there.

And I've appreciated the conversation of the data, and I do like think it would be great to hear these pieces so that we can understand how to communicate about economic growth.

Thank you.

This this is Corporal Julio Solis, who is our downtown liaison police officer.

Corporal good evening.

I think it is out of the way.

Can you guys hear it?

Yeah.

Uh good evening, board.

Uh Corporal Julio Solis Forced by Police.

Um we have the police department has established things, um measures to to improve the safety in the downtown area.

Uh things such as uh obviously bringing in the the two ambassadors that they do nothing but make contact with businesses.

What what what can we help you with?

What complaints are you dealing with?

Um we've uh obviously the implementation of the liaison officer myself.

Um the police department also has brought in cameras into into the downtown area to help us uh observe.

Um I mean there's been instances where I've been able to procure warrants or something because of those cameras that are installed in the downtown area.

Um as far as when I first when I first came into the job back in May, June, one of my biggest priorities was okay, what can we do?

What's the main focus?

What's the biggest complaint?

Uh a lot of the residents in the downtown area and business owners uh brought up homelessness, uh vagrancy, unsafe.

Them feeling unsafe from walking from point A to point B in the downtown area.

That was a big complaint.

Um since then, we've been taking measures to try to mitigate some of that.

Uh obviously we are enforcing zero tolerance on the no loitering on the criminal trespassing.

Uh a lot a lot of the businesses are cooperating with with law enforcement as far as do they want to try trespass individuals who are trespassing who are loitering.

Um that is helping in that sense.

Um I can tell you vagrancy is a big issue.

Um it feels like as law enforcement sometimes you know, us on the street, sometimes we feel like we do feel we have our hands tied behind our back with some some situations that uh we we can't really enforce.

Um I mean, besides that, that's that's pretty much my my two cents on that.

Okay, thank you very much.

Thank you.

I mean, we've got to loosen some of those things that are binding us a little bit, in my opinion.

Okay.

I think I think we g we do need to bring something back to to the to this board to try to try to help the situation.

Or we're never going to see real true activation of downtown.

Uh it's just that's just how it is.

We're never gonna see it as long as these can these problems continue to to exist.

So something different.

Okay, thank you.

Uh downtown is alive starting Thursdays.

You have to go that way.

Uh it is alive and thriving on starting on Thursdays.

Lots of things going on.

Um could you tell me what is the size of the grant that we receive from Livitt every year?

So it is um in the past it had been $30,000 because it was $3,000 a show, and now it is four that for the new grant cycle it's gonna be four thousand dollars a show.

So they're increasing the amount because it just it it cost us last year an average of eight thousand dollars per show to put on a free community concert.

So we did that ten times.

Um we're actually gonna we're gonna go down to seven shows instead of ten this year because in the past we'd split on five and five because it just gets so hot here in the summer.

Um, but we really want to try to have a fall series this year.

So we're gonna do seven in a row because we think we can get seven in, you know, before Halloween and before you know start a little after its hottest blazes.

Um so we'll be receiving 28,000 directly from Levitt in 2026, and um we'll continue to either get the 28,000 or up to 40,000 from them for the next two subsequent years, and we do have to match that dollar for dollar locally um to meet the conditions of the grant and to be able to put on the show.

So you get sponsorships.

Yes, in the past, the city has given us a $20,000 commitment.

It was a three-year commitment the last three years from the city for $20,000.

We also received $20,000 from the um Dream Alliance Foundation, but they've done a spin-down of their funds, so that's not a viable avenue for us now.

So we are actively fundraising for that $28,000 match.

Okay.

I think Main Street uh collaborates with all of the major events downtown.

Yes, sir.

Uh the steel launch rally, the New Year's Eve ball drop was fantastic this year.

Yeah, the downtown business association really knocked it out of the park.

And then you have the uh Peacemaker Festival uh and the pub crawl.

Uh there's a lot of things going on downtown, and the number of new establishments is much greater than those who decided to not be downtown.

That's correct.

So you keep up the good work.

Thank you, sir.

If there are no further questions, uh thank you very much.

Thank you.

I would like you know the this discussion came through uh a tabling of an action item last week.

And you know, as as I think uh Amanda has shown here through her presentation in all this discussion, uh, you know, downtown is a multifaceted thing.

Um not one solution is going to fix all of the things, and there are many things that we need to work on.

But I think an important component of that is the function that Main Street Fort Smith is providing, which is that attention to the economic drivers and the things that businesses and property owners look to to help with their programs and help help uh activate their spaces.

And I think uh that this program, you know, the the city does not have someone on staff that is doing this.

I think this program fills that role, and I would suggest that or ask that the board consider putting that on for uh that agreement on for next week for a thank you.

I make the motion that we put the agreement on the next regular meeting.

I'll second it, but I I would like it to come out of that funding if it's possible.

Thank you.

Okay.

Director Savage.

I mean, I think you're um doing a great job with the family programming, and I think that's one great way to really get people downtown, you know, when you don't have to find a sitter, you can take your kid, you can take your dog.

I know those um Levidamp concerts are a lot of fun.

Um the organization was 64.6, it was very uh closely tied to a businessman downtown.

Is that is he out now he's done?

Yeah, if you're referring to um Mr.

Steve Clark, he was one of the founding members of the organization, but he is no longer a board member or ex officio um in any capacity.

Okay.

So no ties.

No ties.

Thank you.

I've actually never met him.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

If there are no further questions, thank you.

Thank you.

Jeff, is there is there any way that we could we could get something to the board that maybe takes some elements of that grants pass ordinance and maybe modifies it a little bit.

I I mean I don't know what what that would look like, but uh take it what Officer Lee's uh talks about and the challenges that he has and kind of puts that together into something that we could maybe craft and and have something that gives them a little more teeth.

Yes, and staff has had the discussion that it's been several months now since we've last visited that topic.

Yeah.

And uh to determine what we do next, how how we develop that going forward.

I I do think that we need to dust that off and bring it back to the board for but you know, with some recommendations, but to a study session discussion to see what we want that to look like.

You think that would be something we could do in the first quarter?

We'll do it.

We'll do it soon, yes, sir.

Okay, thank you.

Go to the next I'm sorry, Director Savage.

I just want to say one thing related to that.

I think it's important as you're putting that together that we get feedback from the officers who would be enforcing it.

Um when it came up last time, some of the things we heard from some of the officers were I wouldn't feel comfortable enforcing this.

And um to me, police work is it's an impossible job.

It's a job I couldn't do.

So I think it's important to have that feedback as well.

Uh than a bunch of bureaucrats just sitting around putting it together.

Yeah, Officer Solis is not shy about sharing his opinions.

So he needs to be heavily involved in this, one hundred percent.

Thank you.

Okay.

Any further questions?

If not, we'll go through item number two.

Uh item two this evening is a discussion regarding program management for consent decree construction projects.

The board has recently discussed the need for comprehensive management of such projects specific to ensuring that projects funded by the sales and use tax bonds are accomplished on time within budget and in a coordinated manner.

The engineering department is preparing to issue a request for proposals for such project management services, which will result in a multi-year, multifaceted agreement with a qualified engineering firm to assist with managing these projects.

Todd Mitke, our director of engineering is with us remotely.

Hi, Todd, uh, this evening to discuss their project and respond to questions from the board.

Todd.

Thank you, Jeff.

Can you all hear me okay?

Sure.

Wonderful.

Well, I'm we have a PowerPoint presentation that's a little bit long, but I'm sure try not to read every word here.

But uh it's important to note that this is something that has been requested by the board.

So I want to get this final version of the request for qualifications the way you want it to be, so that your constituents are getting what they want.

So I will read through uh some of the high points and uh part of that is as you have heard in the next slide we can talk about what the consent degree is.

Everyone is very familiar with that, but the sanitary sewer overflows need to stop.

And so one way that that um we have identified is through a program management process from an impartial third party engineer, a nationally known recognized uh entity, and uh that we will send this out to a lot of them so that they can have approximately six weeks to to uh give us their qualifications.

So, what is program management?

Program management is the coordinated oversight of multiple related projects to achieve strategic organizational goals, focusing on long-term benefits rather than the specific deliverables of individual projects.

It involves aligning the resources, managing dependencies, risks, and costs across projects, and ensures the overall program delivers the intended strategic outcomes.

So as we align the objectives, manage resources, identify and manage links and risks between projects, and focus on delivering the value and benefit to the city in terms of the consent decree.

That is what we would like to achieve with the program management if you choose to go forward with this.

Next slide, please.

So what is an RFQ?

The state of Arkansas statutes talk about exactly what that is with the the way you hire engineering firms.

It is a document used to gather information from potential engineering firms to evaluate their experience, credentials, and ability to complete a project.

It acts as a pre-screening tool to narrow down a list of companies for those who are qualified.

This is important to note that only after the most qualified respondent is identified does cost become a factor in determining the award.

The RFQ includes a detailed scope to ensure that the engineering firms provide the information needed to properly evaluate who is best to fit this consent degree program management for the city.

So RFQ is the closest thing you get to a bid for the uh the services to be rendered.

But we can't look at cost ahead of time.

So if you ask how much is it going to cost, I don't know.

I have a general idea, but we're not going to see that until after we we uh determine the award.

At that point, we can start negotiations with the engineering firm and talk about uh talk about that, but but I do not know what, and we cannot have bidding um as the RFQ.

So next slide, please.

What is the scope for our consent decree program management project?

So this will establish and oversee the management and administration of activities required to support the city with information of our wastewater consent decree.

Part of this will be a PRA, a program readiness assessment.

So it'll review the city's existing and available documentation, systems and processes, procedures, and our resources and staff capabilities.

We also have part of this the program execution plan development.

So it'll establish process processes that will govern the program and will establish methodologies for individual project delivery.

So basically, we will have full-time resources from this impartial third-party engineer of nationally recognized status that has done one of the important things to note is we want experience with a consent degree city.

So they have experience, some may be uh helping with with administration right now on consent degree cities.

Some may have had an abundance of them in the past, and we would be the only one at this very moment to uh help with consent degree cities, but uh that's important to note.

So the next slide is what is the scope of the consent degree program management?

So as they review our current project delivery plan, they provide optimal bundling and delivering strategies.

They identify efficiency efficiency opportunities, optimate optimization of cost, and streamlining implementation.

They will go through as I move down here, the identifying key cost drivers so the city can consider areas for potential savings.

That's an important thing to note, and develop a high-level multi-year implementation to show the project sequencing.

One important part of the consent decree is we must uh must eliminate SSOs to the entire to the extent humanly possible.

So they will look at a high-level approach to bring those SSOs in line, and if a project is not going to address those SSOs, they'll kick them back.

So just in the case that I'm not seeing this at all, I've only seen excellence in our project management so far in my three weeks being here.

But if they see a project come forth that doesn't directly uh uh address SSOs, they'll will meet and say, hey, this does not per this, they'll have uh authority to uh to come up with alternative ideas if we have the wrong ones, which I do not anticipate at all.

So the schedule incorporate resources, funding constraints, regulatory deadlines, and seasonal limitations.

Next slide is what is the scope for the or what are the financial management plan development and support?

So we as we update the long-term financial model as the bonding has has come through, they'll come up with a general estimate of projects independent from the engineers' estimates that have come through.

So every time one of our consultants comes up with an engineer's estimate, the I will look at that uh that engineers estimate, and so will the uh independent third-party engineer that runs the program management.

So something that happens like happened last fall, uh they'll help help identify hey, maybe this this uh this engineers estimate is off.

So something that was asked at at the last meeting, so this would address that.

Some of these also is the program controls and reporting.

So an approach for tracking dashboard items, such as reporting of program and project level progress, they will have those that are ready to show you at any time.

And one part of uh staff is we are focused on delivering projects, so we don't normally come up with a uh uh dashboard that you could come and look at any time.

I mean, we're happy to answer any questions, but this is gonna be one of the main parts of the project management is is to have that dashboard ready at a glance.

And also I'm gonna to talk to them about a public dashboard too, so that I can help our citizens see everything that's going on in a better manner.

So the next slide, what is the scope?

Uh we'll have three main parts of the scope is the outreach, project management, and collection systems dashboard.

And I won't read these, but but uh as you know, out treat outreach is very important.

Uh project management, which is how we eventually get rid of our SSOs, and a dashboard so that we can see how it happens.

Um one of the important parts that sometimes cities of this size do not have is a hydraulic model of our wastewater collection system.

And as a side note, we have a hydraulic model for our water system that is one of my priorities to upgrade.

It hasn't been upgraded in a while.

But um, I really want to to have a accurate hydraulic model for our sewer and our water.

And the consent degree um is is one of the ways we can we can really get that up to date.

So they're gonna be part of that.

So next slide.

Who's on the evaluate evaluation team?

There'll be the acting city administrator, the deputy city administrator, myself, our direct our my deputy director for water and utilities, the director of water resources, and the director of public works.

So the next slide.

Evaluations and interviews.

So what'll weapon is the firms will submit their qualifications to the brief description of how they will fulfill a scope.

We will review that as evaluation team, and then the top three will be come to interview by the evaluation team.

Next slide.

So it's important to note that the firm will be chosen based on based on the scoring from the submittal and interview process, and the contract will be presented to you for approval.

The next slide shows uh approximate timeline, and this is uh I'm gonna update these to you verbally because this was during the original rough draft, and I did I failed to update these on short notice.

So uh the RFQ advertisement would be roughly February 8th based on your direction.

If you want to go forward with this, if you have any major changes, um that gives a give us a couple weeks to get that advertised, and then we'll have it open for six weeks.

So the submittals will be due by the engineers on March 20th, that's a Friday.

The initials initial valuations will occur by April 3rd.

Interviews will be around April 14th, which is a Tuesday, and the contract will be to you for approval in the first meeting in May, May 5th.

So in case the firm will begin program management activities around May 19th of this year.

So that is the uh PowerPoint I had for you, but I'd love to answer any questions you might have.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Director Neil Martin.

I want to make sure that I was I understood that that was we're not just looking at Arkansas firms.

We're looking across the United States.

Yeah, it was right here.

Request for qualifications used to hire engineering firms in Arkansas.

This isn't specific to firms in Arkansas, is that correct?

That is correct.

Yes.

This is well, um, we are in our this is uh the state statute.

So since we are in Arkansas and we are hiring firms, that's what it references.

But yes, we are not going to be strictly uh looking at Arkansas firms, although any firm here is welcome to apply.

But our our focus is going to be on nationally recognized big firms that have done multiple consent degree program management activities in the past or current.

Um Todd, now one question that I have is I'm assuming firms like this have been involved in consent decrees and and engagements like this all around the United States.

Is that correct?

That is correct.

Okay.

So they they probably know the ins and outs.

You know, I was just I was just kind of looking through this, and I know we've estimated about six hundred million dollars is what's left on this.

You know, I would want to be able to say this firm could save us a hundred million dollars, two hundred million dollars, whatever that is.

I don't even know if that's possible.

But you know, we ought to go into it with that expectation that they are we're gonna hire these people and they're gonna save us quite a bit of money.

I don't even know if you can put a a number around that, but I mean, we should expect cost savings based on our original internal estimates.

Uh do you think that's a true statement?

I think it's quite possible, but we shouldn't count on that because with with uh reporting and uh let me let me bring something up here.

I'll tell you which slide it is, Josh.

I mean, I would I would tell them I want us to want them to save us 100 million dollars and just tell them that at the gig go.

Yeah, that we can tell them whatever wants to send their page with 20 million.

That that's how they that's successful.

They saved the might want more than two million though, if they're gonna save you 100 million.

I mean, if uh I'll I'll do it.

Well, that's uh that's uh I I am willing to ask for the moon and expect uh the International Space Station.

You know, we want to get there, we want to we want to get any efficiencies that may not be there.

We want them to seek those out.

So that's part of the outreach, the program management, and the collective dashboard system, which is the main scopes.

But also they're gonna have somebody here with us in City Hall, most likely.

So it'll be a consultant in here with our day-to-day activities.

And one thing I want to to make make sure I I'm not gonna want them to take away my authority as the director of engineering and take away local control, because we are not handing over our authority, we're asking it to be helped managed.

So or helping it asking for help managing it.

So anytime you have any issues with projects, you as the the elected body through staff will have that control.

And I want to make that clear to them.

But yeah, I I will tell them I expect big dollar savings, and we want their reputation to be uh doing such.

Thank you.

Uh thank you.

Uh Neil, you asked a question I want to ask is is this gonna be open to everybody?

But to the second part you brought up is you and Todd, I hope you when y'all do discuss or whoever you talk to, is there a cost share for savings?

And I think that's something that's kind of what you're talking about is if you save X, do you get a percent of that?

If you value engineer stuff at the front end, do you get a savings if it comes to fruition?

So I think that's something that should be part of those negotiations to this and and to make this happen.

I think that's kind of what you're talking about.

Save us X will give you a little percentage of that.

I'm looking at their that's their savings.

Right.

I'm looking for creativity and how we implement this thing.

It doesn't necessarily, you know, the contract says this.

We're abiding by that, but you can you can be creative in how you implement it.

Value engineer things too.

So if you save a a dollar, do they get X percent of that?

And then that becomes their reason to stay apart and become more valuable part of the team.

So I'm hoping that we get a firm that maybe is nationally known, it's done all this as project management uh for big CDs.

And um, I think that's kind of where I'd like to go with this, Todd.

I'm good with um what we're doing here, and I think it's a good way to go forward.

But I just I think we need somebody big and somebody who'll value engineer and make some and make some significant improvements and and maybe save money but also speed the time up.

Let's let's let's bring it up and get this done quicker than later.

Very good.

I appreciate that.

Um we would have to have some way to show what the cost would have been and what the cost is at the end.

And we really don't have a way to accurately portray that other than bid prices of when contractor A bids and is awarded this project maybe savings during that process for a value engineering after the fact.

But we'd have to talk to uh our legal department to see do you have experience with uh or can you find out other city attorneys issues with or um experience with how to gauge what it would have cost versus after uh uh multi uh multinational engineering firm looks at something.

So I love the idea of that, and I am all for any way we can do that.

Even 10% of savings back in their pocket saves us 90, that's a slam dunk.

But how to how to monetize that and and measure that up front?

We'd have to look at those and have that specific language in the RFQ so that they can know what to measure because measure uh measurables are important, we can't have a moving target.

I agree with that, Todd.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh thank you for your time, Todd.

Uh I as I was thinking through this, maybe one measurable before I ask my few questions here.

Maybe one measurable is are the projects when they come back through the bid process and we have our engineering estimates, maybe one mark that we can measure is how often and how accurate were we on our engineer estimates to what we received in the competitive market for those that are taking on the jobs.

Because sometimes that gap has been there, and then the board has to figure out well, why is there a big gap between our engineering estimates and then the estimates that we're getting?

So if that gap is tightened, that might be one thing.

Or even if there was a way that the group that was consulting said, but maybe you consider this, and then pointing out in transparency, we were thinking about doing this.

We were consulted to consider this, and it is making a savings in the engineering estimates, and then when the bids come in, we're able to say that was a success of consulting is to have someone.

I I think it's important that we don't look for a yes men and women, but rather people that will be the crit the critics in the private spaces with staff, so that when we go to the public, we really have thought through the process and gotten feedback from a team that has really thought it through.

And so I think that's for me.

One question I have would be where will the RFQ be posted?

You know, if we're looking for national expertise, how are we ensuring that we will actually get people from the national to know about this?

Well, legally we posted in the the newspaper of record.

So the newspaper we put publish everything in it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, Colby, but I think that's the uh the Democrat, isn't it?

Yes.

Yes.

Or if it's all Democrat is it.

Is there a way to expand that?

Because I mean Oh, yeah.

I I just think for like how they got to be reading the paper to catch them.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, I I I apologize for interrupting.

Uh I would reach out to every national firm personally and my team saying this is out there, this is a copy, this is what it's due.

And you just have a copy-paste email, you give it out to everybody, even if it's 200 firms, and they can choose whether or not they submit something.

But um there it'll also be posted on our website.

So that's where folks can go and and get the full section.

They don't have to have a copy of the paper or anything like that.

Yeah, I just think it'd be anything that we can do to make sure that this is nationally recognized, that there's a national engineering firm of America Association that has a page, you know, that we can put this out there.

I otherwise if they got to read the Democrat Gazette, they might may not catch that.

We don't have thought.

The process, I know you talked about this, but will the firm you said they will did I hear you correctly say that they would most likely have someone here boots on the ground continually, or is it very likely or just when the projects are up, or they would be available is what you're saying?

They would be very available.

Uh part of the language now says that it's anticipated they would be uh you know doing most of it remotely, but it depends on who we hire if they have a presence that's close, if they're you know in New York City or something, they probably won't move somebody here because that'd be very expensive.

If they have a presence that's close, if they're you know in New York City or something, they probably won't move somebody here because that would be very expensive.

But my I am anticipating at least one full-time engineer that's here coordinating the projects every day with our project engineers and myself.

And so that is that's what I anticipate, but it's not going to be required that they have somebody here every day.

Yeah, and that was going to be my next question.

Is that do you typically see in best practices this is a flat fee that they're offering up, and then it's whether the services are used.

Is this a billable hours structure?

Or how does this typically work in best practices?

It's typically a uh a build uh or a flat fee for the entire uh service rendered.

Um but that's something that I'm not absolutely sure of.

It's just what I've done with other RFQs.

It's not been I've never administered a concentric RFQ of this size, might have been a lot smaller.

So they the other ones have been monthly billings of what was used, but the fee is is uh what they the scope of services at the end so that we're satisfied.

So that's something I will find out.

Um also in the national references, there is the aside association of uh ASCE association um American Society of Civil Engineers and the National Society of Professional Engineers.

There's also APWA and those types of groups that it'll take take a few a few dollars, but we can advertise on those pages, and I'd like to do that.

So that is a great idea based on this conversation.

I wasn't intending to do that, but that's a great idea.

Well, thank you for that.

Thank you for your time, Mayor.

Thank you.

Uh any other questions?

Director Costavius?

Jeff, is this not something that our procurement department can go out and do?

Can they go out and procure?

Because I know he's quite busy uh doing other engineering projects as well.

They will be they will be involved in this process with the engineering department.

I mean, and this is a city procurement, so yes.

I mean our purchasing folks will be involved.

Okay.

Well, I have to do that.

Right.

But all of those also depend on the the sponsoring department to be actively involved in that process.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you.

One quick question before we before we wrap up.

Um the the cost, the estimates that we've put together, and this might be for Lance too.

The estimates that we put together up to this point.

That has that been is that the city that have uh made that estimate, or is that um the city in conjunction with uh third-party engineering firms in the in the city, in and around the city?

I think it has been a combination of all of those.

Okay.

Yes.

Okay.

So um so it's not like we're just you know internally we're we're spitballing, or we're we're identifying this, but we're we've engaged folks outside of our organization that are that are doing this.

This just gets uh it gets a firm that's you know has gone through it before and um can provide some correct various different services for us.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, thank you.

If I might add the most of the time when uh a engineering project is designed, we rely on the designer, let's say Hawkins Weir or Mickel Griffin or uh HAF or somebody, they they design the project and they put the engineer's estimate together, but the city staff looks it over.

So most of that work, you know, 95% of it is that consulting engineer.

That's what we're paying for in those designing and design engineer prices.

So walk me through this process is the the EPA they're giving us these projects, and then we're designed.

Do we already have all the projects we need to do?

We because one of the things I was reading a congressional hearing the other day, one of the things I was reading about, we get into these consent decrees, and this happens all over the country, and then the scope just increases.

It just creeps and creeps and creeps.

And so kind of like what has happened with us, a hundred and fifty million dollar project becomes a billion and a half dollars by the time it's done.

So do we know everything we have to do to finish this out?

Everything is generally yes.

Yes, we generally know what we need to do, but I won't want to preface this that I'm not an expert in our consent degree yet.

I'm still learning about the specifics.

But generally, let's say we have 80,000 linear feet of pipe in a certain sub-basin that needs to be either replaced or checked that it is it is uh uh watertight and we have 300 manholes.

Their measurement is how much of those how many linear feet have been touched, whether it's a full replacement, whether it's a lining or a spot repair, um and then how many manholes.

So the EPA does not give us our specific projects.

They just say what you need to have done at the end.

So we can come up with those.

And like we did a couple weeks ago, we we agreed to split some up and the EPA doesn't even they don't care when we do this project this year or in five years.

They just it has to be done.

So as we identify the projects, and that's what this this program manager would would help facilitate is is identifying projects as a you know third party outside view, hey.

Have you looked at this one?

Maybe you should bundle these instead of uh be scatter gunned, which I don't think we're doing a scattergun approach either, anyway.

We have uh great projects, every one of them that I've seen, but they're there to help that in let's say Shreeport there under a consent decree.

So we have uh experience with they did this type of project first, but they could have done this other type of project and you know, maybe state money or bundled it for this type of subcontractor and save some money so that everybody wins.

So part of that is my long-winded answer of uh I don't know about our specific uh consent decree 100 percent yet.

I'm still learning from Lance, Jeff, our city attorney, others.

But uh they the EPA and the Department of Justice does not give us our specific projects.

Uh would add to that that we have gone through and completed all of the assessment, the sanitary sewer assessment work, and so that has helped us to identify what these projects are.

And and to your point, Director Cattavas, that you know, when we first started on this project and that assessment hadn't been done, there was there were estimates as to what this this would cost and what the damage was or what the repairs were needed and what the capacity improvements were.

And so as we've had the assessments completed, we've we've been through all of the all of the city now, and we've we've had all of our lines assessed.

And so we found many of them were in much worse shape than we anticipated.

And and others we've done the assessment and it wasn't so bad, but we've gotten a f a few years on top of that, and it's it's become worse.

And so uh that's that's where we get the scope creep that you mentioned earlier is when we get into identifying what the what's actually wrong in the ground, it's worse than what we estimated it to be after we've done this assessment.

But like I said, we've completed those assessments now, and so now it is time for us to identify this and through this program to identify which projects we do and how we prioritize them to get the work done.

So now we know exactly what needs to be done.

We can go in in a targeted way.

Correct.

Yeah, it's kind of spelled out in the consent decree of exactly how many manholes you gotta inspect, how many lines you gotta do the capacity modeling.

If you read the 136 pages of consent decree, it spells it out for beta on what you got to do and basics and stuff like that.

I've read it.

I've read it a couple of times, but I was reading it piqued my interest because I was reading this congressional hearing and they were talking about how other cities have had issues with the federal government coming back in and saying they they increase the work.

And I didn't know if that had happened at that.

The only thing that has ours is the the waters of the United States rule is is in our consent decree.

So that if that rule changes, it does give you latitude for the EPA and DOJ to change what we're doing.

Well, there is stuff in there about inventory management and all these other things, which I think that's when you start getting into scope creep and and and training and and you know holding businesses accountable to their training and having there's a lot more than just fixing the pipe.

I mean that's uh I was dealing with uh a business around here that was frustrated of you know having to sign off on their training for new hire orientation that we've got a guy that has to go collect that information.

I mean there's a lot of extra stuff in there that's that's really frustrating.

Well, and one of the things that the consent decree does address is the capacity management operation and maintenance program, and that's about half of what our consent decree addresses is how how we maintained our infrastructure in the past and what management practices do we intend to change going forward.

And I think through this process and dealing with the consent decree for the last eight, nine years, ten years now, uh our our departments have become accustomed to what they need to do in order to maintain properly maintain this infrastructure going forward after these repair projects, cas capacity improvement projects are done.

Uh Mayor, yes, go ahead.

Uh Mr.

Damon, uh one thing I have a question of is have we gotten an update uh any communication at all through legal from the meeting that you know the director's rotation, I got to sit in that with you and Lance.

Uh have they responded back to us?

I mean I think they have not.

And where the the st where we are with the uh consent decree modification proposal that is up what you're referring to is that we are now in a position where we are waiting for the uh Department of Justice, the EPA to forward to us a red line version of what they proposed to be the modified document that then the board would then get to evaluate and and uh approve.

Uh when that happens then it goes back to EPA to their uh up the upper reaches of the Department of Justice, whoever has to approve it on the on the federal government side and then it's considered approved.

And so we are in the process.

We are in the position now where we are waiting for that correspondence back from Department of Justice as to what the status of that modification is, but we believe that we have we believe that it is complete.

It just needs to be approved.

Would that would that be possible that administration can just ask our legal representative just to check in?

I mean it seemed to me like that was a great meeting.

And I I just sometimes I just don't want us to be something sitting around and it's just sitting around because it wasn't checked on.

No, and the last the last touch point was in that in that at the end of that week after between uh Christmas and New Year's, that week of the twenty-eighth, twenty-ninth, something like that.

I know there was a checkpoint there.

Uh and that that was the response that we got.

We're in that we're in that queue.

We're in that p that place of uh waiting for response from the Department of Justice.

But your point is is taken and we we do that regularly if we touch point with our counsel who touches points uh with uh with his counterparts at the Department of Justice just to make sure that everything is on track.

Thank you.

I asked that more just to have it out there.

That's where we're at.

We're waiting on what that machine to split something up to us.

Yeah, it should be relatively.

I feel like it's just sitting on director such and such's desk.

And Mr.

Such and such has a lot on his desk.

And then all we need him to do is say, yeah, do it.

No, it's uh signal lock right here.

I gotta get an antenna extended over there.

I was literally holding it, it worked for the end because I was holding the antenna.

Sir Ma'am.

Yeah, okay.

And we're gonna go to item number item number three.

Item three this evening is review of the agreed upon procedures and discussion of the Parrot Island Water Park Audit.

Amanda Strange is with us remotely uh to discuss this item.

Amanda.

Hi everybody.

Uh thank you for letting me be here remotely.

Um so we I just wanted to recap where we've been and where we are right now.

Um this kind of came a came about by some concerns with the management of the water park.

Um there were some discussions of an audit and at our last audit committee meeting we talked with um the members of the the board an internal audit and we also had our representative from Forvis, the city's external auditor, to come and talk about what what would that look like?

What would an audit be?

Um and there when we talk about a financial statement audit, there are some constraints to that.

Um so we we focused a lot on agreed upon procedures.

Um accounting records, invoices, those kind of things.

This will also allow us to get some insight into management's practices that they've had.

Uh and also I do want to point out that these are focused on the twenty twenty-five calendar year.

Um that is where we started with this.

Those could be expanded to additional years.

And this is not necessarily going to stop from having a financial statement audit in the future.

Really, I think what will get us some good information for 2025, it's going to help us determine where do we go from here?

What are the next steps after that?

So I do want to kind of briefly go over what is included in these procedures.

This first section on page one is talking more about background and other information.

If we go down to the second page, this kind of gets into some of the meat of it.

This is a list of a lot of documents that we're going to request from the management company.

So there's quite a few things that we'll be asking that management company to provide to us to provide to four of us, actually, excuse me.

And what we're going to do with it really gets here into sections two and three.

Selecting a sample of transactions and getting some information on that of how it was handled from an accounting perspective, and also asking them for some how do you handle cash?

What are these ways that you are handling these things?

And then getting Forvus to report back to us discrepancies over a certain dollar amount.

Section six that we have here, this is focused on some of those concerns around delayed payments.

Are there any outstanding invoices that have not been paid?

So you've received them, not paid them, and getting some feedback from them of why those have not been paid.

Section seven focuses on cash transfers.

So that the way that the water park is set up is that there is a cash account, but it can be divided into different sections for different purposes.

So fixed asset repairs, those kind of things.

So we're looking at any transfers of cash between those sub-accounts.

Were those reflected correctly in the financial statements?

Down section number eight, we're also going to focus on the timing of reports inside that the management agreement.

There are annual, quarterly, monthly statements, financial reporting that's required in that.

And they also have an annual physical condition report that is supposed to report on those fixed asset items, how are they working, what kind of state that they're in.

And so this is going to give us some idea of did these reports happen, when they were supposed to, who did they go to?

We'd be getting whenever there's you know the responses for management, the management company has been it was due to weather days.

So we've designed this step to help pull out those odd days where there might be something unusual going on, and so For us will get that and report on it.

Are there any unusual months for expenses, and then have management report on those?

And then the last section here is focusing on concession items.

Um, sorry, go scroll right back up a little bit.

And having uh the management company give us some feedback on profitability there.

Uh and so the very last section here on the last page.

Um in the management agreement, there are calculations of this base compensation incentive compensation.

And so this is a recalculation of those amounts because this is really how the management company gets paid.

So that's that's a brief overview of these procedures.

I would be happy to answer any questions or talk through any changes that you'd like to see.

Okay, thank you very much.

Just time we'll uh go through.

Uh Director Neil Martin.

Somebody reached out to me and was asking about looking at additional years, previous years besides 2025.

What are your thoughts on that, uh, Amanda?

Do you do you feel like that's appropriate?

Do you feel like that maybe raises the cost out of the gate?

Kind of what like if we did, if we also looked at 23 and 24.

What are your what are your thoughts there?

My thoughts are when you have this management company, they probably are doing the same types of things year after year after year.

I think one thing that was the the red flag for for me as a former auditor, current internal auditor, it's the fact that that there was a money loss in 2025, previous years there was revenues um over expenses, but 2025 was a reversal.

So that trend change in the trends was a bit of a red flag for me.

So that's why we focused here on 2025.

Uh we can go back to previous years.

There's nothing stopping us from that, but it will increase the cost.

Good.

Okay.

And you're we were I think I saw in here you're estimating 30 to 40,000.

The estimate that we got from Forvis for these procedures here uh is about 30 to 40,000.

And the the range of that is depending on how quickly we can get information.

Um it's gonna depend on if there are errors, and as you read through these, it will say, you know, report on errors larger than X number of dollars.

So the more things that they find incorrect and have to include in their reporting, the more time it will take.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, Amanda, we'll we'll will you will will you all have access to bank statements?

Yes.

So when when you rec when you reconcile uh monthly on your financial statement.

The deposit and expenses would show would show up as on the bank statement as what's part of what these procedures are going to tell us, and that's part of the design of those is to take the cash transactions.

So we'll be looking basically comparing those cash transactions on the bank statement and tying them back into how they were recorded in the financial statements in that financial statement reporting that the management company does.

Great.

Let's say the concession business is probably 80% cash.

How are you gonna know that all that cash is being run through the register?

Or are you?

And that is a you know, if without being physically present for to see those things actually happening, that's really tough to do after the fact.

Um so part of it is looking at one one of the things that we've requested in this list is what are your procedures?

Show us how these procedures are supposed to happen and included in that should be these what we would call controls, so internal controls from the management company.

What kind we're looking for what kind of controls would be there?

Well, we should be able to look at, you know, if you bought 10,000 hamburger buns and you know, I mean, you should be able to look at what the inventory that was ordered, and that's what I'm saying, Amanda is in the food business, you you you deal with percentages.

And then when your food percentage gets out of whack from the norm, then that's usually an indication of something bad wrong.

George, I can tell you a lot of people out there use credit cards.

I'd be surprised the amount of cash is going through, there's a lot less than you think.

Well, I mean, I would think if we see that they're ordering a lot of food, but they're not showing a lot of sales or profit that we're going to do.

Well, so I'm saying that that would show up in your food costs.

Yeah.

See, the normal usually in the food business normal food costs is 30 percent.

So if you if you do an audit and say their food cost is 50 percent, that that's gonna tell you something's wrong.

You see what I'm saying?

They spent over 300,000 to make 400,000, so I can tell you something.

Well, see, yeah, see that yeah, the because the numbers I looked at are aren't there's something wrong.

Just around the concession.

I mean, when we did when we did the concessions at the fairgrounds, nachos cost probably 50 cents.

We sold them for five dollars or five fifty.

I mean, there's good money in concessions.

And the the procedure that we've written is to look at what profitability should be on an item by item basis.

That's that's right.

Um so that's that's gonna give us some indication of which one of those items are the lower profitable items, and then get management to tell us, you know, why why have you done this this way?

And you know, uh like I said, it this is really just the peak into there.

If we find some items that don't look good, don't look right, there's something suspicious, we have that opportunity to do more procedures at that point.

Okay, if you feel like you're not getting all the information, can you subpoena?

I don't have the power to subpoena it, no.

Uh, but I think that from a reputational standpoint, you know, they I think that this management company probably has a vested interest in providing this information.

They see they've been willing to this point.

Um so if they get to that point where they're not providing that information, we'll think about what the next steps are at that point.

That point.

And how long was this audit going to take?

So it depends on how quickly they get us the information uh to provide to Forvis.

Um what we had talked about with our Forvest representative is that they would do these procedures when they are doing the city's audit, which is uh the beginning of April.

Beginning of April.

And if we if if the information comes in before that and they have availability, they'll start on these procedures beforehand.

Um so we should be gathering that information and seeing what they've provided us, what they've not provided us, work with them to try and get the correct information.

Okay, thank you.

Director Kassavich.

Um when we were discussing it at the audit committee meeting and and going forward, I really thought we were doing um 24 and 25 so that we had something to compare back to.

Um I I think we need to do both.

I don't I don't know what my colleagues think about that, but I think we need 24 and 25.

One of the things we didn't look like we touched on was insurance.

Is that something that we can that we can add?

And I just I just thought of that last night.

I know it's a a bit of a late addition.

Well what exactly for the insurance would you be interested in?

Would you be looking at what types of insurance they have, the timing of the payment, or are the or the question of is there insurance missing?

The types of insurance and the premiums we're paying, and if it's the if that's in line with uh what would be expected.

I'd also be um well uh I I'd really just be curious to see 24 versus 25, you know if it was profitable, what did it look like when it was profitable, and and what were the changes between the two years.

But I think part of that for the ex if we're looking at just the expenses, that is what we're looking at on a monthly basis.

What is the difference between 2024 expenses and 2025 expenses?

Okay.

That's what I thought we talked about.

And and that is because we have so much freedom for these procedures, we can write them how we want them.

And that's why, since that concern seemed to be limited to expenses, that's why we just really have that step to compare from 24 to 25.

Okay, thank you.

Mayor, I have a quick question.

Well, I'm sorry, so who else is in?

Uh Director Kent was in a key.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, thank you for your work on this and you know, the audit committee appreciate all those.

I know there's several directors here that are on that team and come over this process.

I do want to make sure when I've talked to people that have serviced the park, like uh like an electrician recently made connections with me and he wasn't owed an outstanding invoice, yet he was owed an invoice payment.

And uh we did get connected connecting to administration and said, hey, you know, let's see what we can do here.

And then they did communicate, and it was something like, well, the W9 was hung up in our such and such department, and you'll get payment by the end of the week or end of next week.

But it's when I hear that and then I hear about you know, when you have a vendor for co for all your pool supplies that was really not paid until the next season almost on ongoing, but if there's a minimum requirement for my understanding by the county and the city to maintain a mi a threshold fund of $75,000, how are we not able to pay these vendors when the rendering was due?

I mean, both of those vendors that I know of, the the chemicals and your electrician would would have been able to have been paid if the $75,000 pot was maintained.

And if it did dip it down because of some CapEx that had to be done, why not tell the city in a quicker way?

So I don't know if there's some procedures to explore there for this minimum balance requirement, uh or is that minimum balance number requirement need to go up?

Because maybe that's too low of a threshold.

I there's just some thoughts to think through there in my opinion.

And I I was just hopeful, I know we're looking at concessions and expenses and cash things, but I do think it's worthy to figure out uh because I don't even think the vendor that recently came to me, the electrician, I I don't remember seeing that person's name on our list.

So, you know, if there's we just need to really think through this.

I mean, when someone does something out there, you know, I want to I want the city to take care of them, especially if we have a minimum threshold requirement on the the accounting of this.

So that's just one comments I wanted to make.

Thank you.

Okay.

I think uh Director George could savage I'm sorry, Christine, you wouldn't ask the cue.

Jeff, who pays your sanitation?

I'm sorry.

Who pays the sanitation at the water park?

They do.

I mean, they they would pay.

Does the city do their sanitation?

I believe so, yes.

And they do pay it themselves.

Yes.

Okay.

As an operational expense of the park?

Okay.

Thank you.

Director DioMarney.

Umanda, just real quick.

So four of us will do this audit when they're doing the city's audit.

But will they request that information prior to so when they get here on site, they're ready to like the data is already here and they're ready to start working.

Yes.

Once they get a contract signed and approved, then they'll make this request to the management company, and that's whenever we'll start collecting that information.

So I plan to help with that process and facilitate it to make it as smooth as possible.

But yes, as soon as that contract is approved and everybody's good with it, then we'll go ahead and make that request.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Are there any more questions?

Does this need to do we need an action taken tonight?

Do we need to make a motion of any sorts?

Does this need to be put like on a regular meeting?

I would ask that uh that we put this on uh the agreement with Forvus on if the at the board's discretion on the next uh voting meeting next week to make the contract.

And I make a motion to put this on the February 3rd regular meeting.

Okay.

We've got two.

Yep.

Okay.

Thank you very much, Amanda.

This time we will go to the fourth item on the agenda.

Item four this evening is a discussion of parameters of a potential investigation by the Arkansas Attorney General relative to installation cost for the water slides at Parrot Island Water Park.

City Attorney Colby Row will uh speak to this item.

Colby?

Sure.

Well, I think the starting point uh what I want to say is uh I've been looking at these issues with the Attorney General and it's the scope of its investigative powers.

And and I want to note that the Attorney General's office does not have general oversight of municipal finances.

Um the Attorney General has statutory authorization and in certain statutes.

And under that act, uh under certain circumstances, the Attorney General can be brought in to investigate whether public officials and public employees have have violated that act.

So you know, whatever this board does, uh, you know, if it it makes some request to the Attorney General to to look into something to investigate something, the Attorney General is going to determine, I mean it's going to have to ask itself and make a determination.

Does it have jurisdiction to look into that issue?

And that's something its office will have to decide.

Uh it's it's not for our consideration.

It's it's the Attorney General's office.

So, you know, I I I don't know what the the answer to that is until we know exactly what may be posed to the Attorney General's office.

That's it.

I'm here to answer questions.

Thank you.

Any other questions for Colby?

So what so what's the what's the procedure to to file or do a referral to them?

Well, if this board I think this board needs to be.

Would the city have to do it or would an individual do it or what?

Well, okay, the there can be cons you know, the the there can be consumer complaints to the Attorney General's office, and they they do have a consumer complaint department.

I I don't think that's what we're dealing with here.

Uh they also have a division called public and public integrity division.

Um the the mechanism I don't think necessarily uh is too important.

I mean, this board could pass a resolution if it wants to do that to ask the Attorney General to do something and and whatever that looks like, the Attorney General then have to take it and decide what its process or what its role in that could be if it has jurisdiction and to whether it can uh investigate and issue subpoenas and uh question witnesses uh or whether it makes a different determination.

So if another law enforcement on your scene did a re did an investigation and did a referral, what would happen then?

That's that's oftentimes how the Attorney General can get involved.

There can be an investigation by a separate entity such as the prosecutor's office.

And it it uh even under that act I was talking about, uh there can be referrals to the Attorney General's office to take action from other other agencies.

Um if the state did an audit and they found found discrepancies, they could make a new referral?

Under the the uh legislative audit, uh local legislative audit or legislative audit committee, they can make referrals to the Attorney General to to investigate audits, uh, you know, questions about audits of municipalities.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Well, I'll just say in my experience with them, they want to see something from the board, because just contacting them as one director doesn't get you far.

So they need something like a resolution from the board uh if it's not coming from an outside investigative agency.

From how many on the board?

What?

How many board members would have to do that?

Well, it takes four to get a resolution passed.

Well.

Any comments, Colby?

No, I mean I I'd agree with Director Christina Kitsavis that, you know, a formal resolution of the board shows the city's uh intent on a matter.

And that would, you know, that would uh direct the uh AG as to the city's position on a topic.

Okay.

Director Neil Martin?

Well, what what I've been kind of thinking about this is uh a couple different ways.

Uh do we do we does the A.G.

get involved at all?

Is this an issue between the city and ARM or and I know that this is this is the the third position, this is kind of my thought.

Did we make a bad decision?

And there's nothing really we can do.

If the board makes a bad decision, the board makes a bad decision.

Now, it passed.

I'm not saying that we uh I'm not I'm not necessarily saying that that's the that that's an issue, but if the board makes a decision to move forward on a on a $4.2 million side and and we continually went move forward and it would ended up costing six point eight million, did we just make a bad decision?

I I don't know the answer to that.

But what what my thought is, uh you know, obviously if there's nothing with the if if we don't move forward with the A.G., is this an issue between us and ARM and the fact that ARM is there proof that ARM provided us misleading information related to the purchase of these slides?

It was I mean it said it they estimated it out to be 4.2 million dollars, and obviously that was not the case.

Uh so is there some instance there of uh that ARM provided us misleading information that made uh that ended up we uh ended up making decision.

Is there some sort of negligence?

Did ARM prioritize its interest over the city's interest?

Um did they knowingly provide false information on costs and discounts?

I mean, we we saw the this is what it is new, this is what the the discount is.

You know, are there are there things that maybe the city would need to look at and and maybe take some legal action against versus the AG.

Yeah, I think potentially the answer to your question is yes.

You know, the the AG may surmise uh if this board passed a resolution asking the attorney general to do something, that this is a a dispute a dispute between two private parties, the City of Fort Smith and some other entity, and it's it's for those two parties to to work out or to litigate, and it's not uh an attorney general issue.

Um but to your point, Director Martin, you know, there is there is certain torts, you know, you mentioned negligence, there's also uh detor to fraud or misrepresentation, and that requires um that a plaintiff was has to show that that defendant made a false material misrepresentation of fact.

Um the plaintiff relied on that false material misrepresentation of fact to its detriment.

The speaker knew it was false when they made it, uh knowing that that listener would rely on it.

And so I I have I've seen the board's packet tonight, and I've, you know, I've seen an email that uh an official from ARM sent to Mr.

Geffkin back in July of 2024, and it lays out that individual's perspective on what this project might entail and how much it may cost.

And it says estimate a couple of times.

Uh uh, you know, there may be other things that I don't know about, uh other other documents.

Well, this is included, I think at 1.2 million in that email.

But that was a brand new, I think.

But go ahead.

The thing is, we were never contracted with ARM.

They served as a third party to broker this deal, but we didn't have a contract with them.

So we really don't have anything in writing.

You know, they they lied to us.

I think they probably made a commission.

I know we've got a memo from Carl saying they didn't, but I would like to see in writing that that they didn't.

Well, one of the things that these are all things that should happen on the front end.

Right, right.

These the this is what caught my attention, because you got 4B, C and D, where in July 1st, they were all not specified.

That's all the all the not specified are not applicable are like 2.4 million dollars that either either I mean you have to have a pump house.

You have to have you have to you 4B you have to have, for C for D you have to have.

I mean, it d in my mind, I'm assuming all those were included in the 4.2 million, but they weren't.

And that's that's the difference alm almost the difference.

So is there you know, is there something related to they didn't we relied on their on their information, but the their information was just wrong.

Right.

It didn't include everything that it needed to be.

So ultimately we were contracted with Whitewater, and we weren't contracted with R.

This is the spirit of my ordinance.

So that's what I'm getting at is shouldn't we have had some sort of formal agreement with them to act as a broker and provide these figures?

Yes.

I mean it would be we'd be in a the city would be in a much better position if there was some contractual arrangement by which we knew what ARM's obligations were, uh and then if they didn't live up to those obligations, you've got an agreement you can go back and say you you've breached, you've failed.

And so now you're right.

There is no there's no agreement to point to.

I mean, we're not talking about the management agreement over the park.

There's no separate agreement that the city could point to and say, ARM, you've violated this agreement.

And so we're left with torts, you know, stru you know, not struggle is a bad word, but coming up with a non-contract claim, whether it's negligence or or misrepresentation or fraud, some other claim to try to, you know, hang hang ARM's put liability on ARM for whatever it did or did not do.

So my question is um when Drew, who is a representative from ARM, when he said um it was the um the paper notes.

The um September 3rd, 2024 meeting when he says um the Whitewater owns the containers, they'll let us keep the containers, it'll arrive palatized and stored in the containers.

Um we request information saying what documentation did you have to support that or not since we weren't contracted with them for that service?

Yeah, I I think we can we can request whatever we want to request from ARM.

Uh I I don't know because we can't produce documentation, then I think we could make the case that he knowingly made a false or misleading statement.

Well, yeah, but the and you you're right.

Uh but to finish my thought, outside of litigation, I don't know if we have the ability to force ARM to turn over anything.

You know, once you you get into civil civil litigation, there's discovery mechanisms and and uh subpoenas can be issued to various entities.

But you know, if it turns out that was a you know it was false, they they knew it was false.

Um we would the city would also be left with showing that that misrepresentation caused damages.

You know, now is is the product in a state of disrepair that's got to be worked on.

You know, it's now the the equipment, you know, in a worse condition because it wasn't palletized and kept in containers.

You know, so that's what you would be looking at is something that say your false misrepresentation caused the city damages.

Right.

And I I think we maybe could argue that the the slides were allowed to degrade the way they were stored sitting out there.

I had um uh two guys from California call me that had run a water park.

They're reading about this out there, and they were saying, you know, these slides have been sitting out there.

Um I think the gentleman over here had had done an expose showing how uh some of the bolts and nails and things are being stored in water.

Um it's not in good shape.

They they degrade faster when they're sitting on elements like that, but there's not water going through them.

Um just remember the board did approve in 2025 the installation of starting to put the slides together.

So once that has started, that's when that triggered that discussion.

So even though there might have been discussions about where they're stored as soon as the board passed that, they started putting the slides together.

Well, that's that that kind of gets me to that point.

Did we just uh I mean obviously this has gone through on four or three across the board.

Did we just make a bad decision?

And I mean I I don't know if there's any recourse to that.

Um the last thing I would say is we've we've we've done a couple of expansions with Parrot Island.

Did is this how they were those times?

Did did something on both of them?

ARM was the lead on both of them.

So what is what does that mean?

I mean, is that we went through ARM to get the flow writer and went through ARM to get the slide.

So I would I'd just be interested in how that kind of unfolded if there was more formal.

Yeah.

Do you know Director Settler was R I mean I assume the city bought the the equipment you just referenced directly from some manufacturer, not ARM.

Is that right?

I can't remember if but if it's through ARM or through the manufacturer, but I can but I know it was uh the flow writer was flow writer and the green slide is through Whitewater.

I'd say the only invoices that I've ever seen related to those two those two specific installations were invoices where the city paid half of its cost to ARM, who then paid the vendors.

And the county did the same thing, paid their half to ARM.

ARM collected those.

So it went through.

So that's different than how it was.

Did we have a separate agreement to handle that with ARM?

Or is that just handled under the management agreement?

It was through the at that time you it was a joint between the city and the county, obviously.

But we did not have written agreements to facilitate that process.

We just did it.

Director Kemp.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um in the spirit of the discussion, though, uh I still I don't see merit yet.

So I'll put yet in there, to send a letter to the Attorney General.

Um we we've talked about an audit.

We got it on the docket to be done.

You know, see what they find.

Uh I think that to be would be more important than the slide project would be some sort of negligence of a of a partner that we contract to run the water park as a whole.

Um so for me, this is you know having even talked to the Attorney General when we were talking to him about consent decree work, and would they lobby on behalf of the city uh to help us with this and would his office be a player in that conversation?

And one of the things that they he had voiced and their their team voiced to us as well that day was we just want to make sure you guys start with the proper channels, like go back to the guy in Dallas and talk to the new guy in Dallas, you know, and go to this person, this person.

I think if you look at this and you activate that person before you have done your own due diligence, he's gonna say Go do your due diligence, and then if you have something of merit or discovery, come back to me.

But uh that's just my take of this.

Um personally I would like to see us move forward.

I mean, I talk about when when the board passed the ordinance for no longer spending anything over 100,000 for capital improvements, because Director Christina Stavis got the motion there for us.

We all voted for it.

There's gonna be check valves to not get ourselves in a situation like this again.

That's that's my take of this.

And so uh you know, I think we're too early to be in this conversation to be talking about writing a letter to the Attorney General.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any further comment?

I have something uh I wanted to bring up if we're done with item four.

Okay.

Any other comments on item four?

Do we have a next step at this point or are we?

Or do we just kind of let it marinate on the other side?

Maybe we let it marinate and we come back.

Okay.

Should we uh are you advocating that you want to write a letter?

No, no, no.

I'm not I I don't know if we're at the AG level yet, but I'm I just I want to make sure that we don't just leave it and that if it dies, it dies.

But if if we if it doesn't need to die, then I'm I'm good with just kind of marinating on it and we maybe come back with something later.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Director Savage?

Um I've gotten a lot of communication from members in the community about the animal vouchers.

Those were um those were cut from the budget.

This is these always sell out.

The community uses these.

Um it's a very well utilized program.

Uh I think that's something we need to bring up and talk about.

Uh you know, I know it's we cut it as kind of a cost savings measure, but I think about all the downstream costs of of these animals when the animal population grows.

My understanding when we were at our budget meeting and we got that sheet that said yes or no, my understanding was that that had a no buy it and it wasn't getting cut.

And so I went back and I watched the video and uh from the budget meeting, and Director Rigo had asked if it has a no buy it, does that mean it's not getting cut?

And Jeff had responded, that's correct.

I don't know if you were confused, but that's why that was my understanding.

Um that that was not a program I wanted to cut.

So I think that's something we need to look at bringing back.

Okay.

Thank you.

What do we need to do on that?

Just get uh another vote, put it back.

Study session?

Okay.

Someone else.

One?

Okay, you good?

Okay.

We've got two.

We'll put it on study session.

Okay.

Thank you all so much uh for your patience and for your in-depth discussion of these important issues.

Uh did you take a look at the preliminary agenda for February 3rd?

I am sure you have.

Uh with that, I will then attain a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Thank you.

You driving that five.

John Will.