Twenty twenty five police department annual report and coming up to the twinkling of the piano keys, our police chief Danny Baker.

It's not the kind of walk up music, I imagine.

If you want to be, we'll get it.

What would be the walk up song?

I have the tiger, bad boys.

Well, good evening, Vice Mayor, members of the board, city administration and citizens of Fort Smith.

It's my honor to present you with the Fort Smith Police Department's annual report for twenty twenty-five, a copy of which has been printed in place before you.

At this time, please direct your attention to the monitors for a brief video introduction.

Thank you.

Unfortunately or fortunately, I'm sure everyone recognized the last officer that was shown there.

And we're very thankful for him still being with us today.

But thank you for your attention to the video.

The video you just watched tells only a small part of our story.

Video highlights the people behind the badge, the calls for service, the partnerships, the community events, and the daily interactions that often go unseen.

The complete report in front of you tells the rest of the story.

It provides the measurable outcomes behind those moments and demonstrates how the Fort Smith Police Department continues to serve our community through a balanced approach that combines traditional law enforcement with meaningful community partnerships.

Some of the highlights include overall group A crime was down 11.8% from 2024, down 29.97% from the five-year average, and down 32.88% from the 10-year average.

This represents the lowest overall reported crime in Fort Smith in a very long time, and without question, the lowest recorded crime during my time as chief.

While the most recent FBI reports indicate reported crime is in decline across the nation, we here in Fort Smith have been seeing this long before it was a national trend.

Our numbers beat the national averages.

The FBI's preliminary 2025 crime data indicates overall violent crime fell by an estimated 9.3%, and property crime dropped by an estimated 12.4% over the same period.

In Fort Smith, major crimes declined overall by overall by 10.6%, and property crimes by 13%.

There were seven homicides in 2025.

One of those was a traffic-related fatality, and arrests have been made in six of the seven incidents.

Sexual assault, which continues to be a problem for us, was at 148 incidents, up from 145 in 2024.

Aggravated assault was at 557 incidents, down from 614 in 2024.

This represents one of the most significant developments in our crime numbers as aggravated assaults have always trended higher than national averages for cities the size of Fort Smith.

Also, robbery, a serious crime against persons, saw a reduction from 76 to 68 incidents in 2025.

Arson was at 13 incidents up one from 12.

Burglary was also down significantly from 470 incidents reported in 2024 to 405 in 2025.

Larceny and theft was down 9.3% from 2,779 to 2,521.

Motor vehicle theft was also down 29.3% from 300 in 2024 to 212 in 2025.

1,387 were felonies, and 2,773 were misdemeanors.

Those arrested spent a combined total of 57,825 days in the Sebastian County jail.

The 40% increase over 2023 and a 3% increase from 2024.

The narcotics and intelligence units participated in 127 drug-related investigations.

Methamphetamine continues to be the top drug seized.

Has now taken second place in front of Fentanyl.

The Canine unit assisted in 80 felony drug arrests.

The Animal Services Unit responded to 6,696 calls and brought 1,485 animals to the Fort Smith Animal Haven Shelter, a 12% increase from 2024.

They reunited 170 animals with their owners, transported 193 injured animals, and issued 451 animal-related citations.

911 operators answered 180,434 calls, with 59,275 emergency 911 calls and 121,159 non-emergency calls.

Police officers and animal services personnel responded to 96,053 calls for service.

At this point, I want to spend a few minutes talking about a concept that I believe is critical to understanding public safety in Fort Smith.

Community partnerships and traditional policing are not competing philosophies, they are not opposite approaches.

They are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, the most successful law enforcement agencies understand that they must work together.

Strong enforcement without community trust has limitations.

Community engagement without accountability and enforcement also has limitations.

The most effective public safety outcomes occur when these two concepts operate in concert.

Throughout 2025, we saw that philosophy produce real results.

Our patrol officers remain proactive, highly visible throughout the city, while also making more than 23,000 non-enforcement contacts with residents, business owners, and visitors.

They attended more than 580 community events and conducted thousands of business and residential security checks.

Those interactions build trust before a crisis occurs.

At the same time, our officers continue to aggressively investigate crime, apprehend offenders, and protect victims.

Our criminal investigation division cleared more than 90% of assigned cases.

Our narcotics and intelligence units continued their work with local, state, and federal partners to disrupt drug trafficking and violent criminal activity.

Our detectives solved complex cases that resulted in lengthy prison sentences for dangerous offenders.

Those outcomes are possible because relationships and enforcement work together.

Likewise, SHILD OUR Youth, work closely with schools, families, service providers, churches, community organizations to intervene with our youth before they become involved in serious criminal activity.

As a result, 148 young people were diverted from prosecution and connected to resources designed to help them succeed.

The Office of Professional Standards or Internal Affairs conducted 491 investigations, including 40 internal complaints with 30 of those sustained, 52 citizen complaints with five sustained.

This demonstrates that the department is committed to policing our own and insisting upon professionalism and accountability for every one of us.

In 2025, we created the Office of Public Relations, which includes the community relations unit, our public information officers, Eric Mitchell, Mallory Riestein, as well as our contracted partner Christina Williams Consulting to provide the best in transparency for our citizens.

The Community Relations Unit participated in 393 events, distributed 6,400 mills through the very popular and effective food patrol program, launched the children's story time program, and enhanced their monthly public crime prevention classes.

The department issued 449 press releases, routed 2,949 information requests to other departments and agencies, and fulfilled 909 Arkansas Freedom of Information Act requests.

Those are examples of policing that addresses problems before they become larger public safety issues.

Community partnerships also strengthened our investigative efforts.

Whether working with local retailers to address organized retail crime, partnering with federal task forces to locate violent offenders, collaborating with neighboring jurisdictions, or entering into our historic cross-deputization agreement with the Choctaw Nation Lighthorse Police Department.

The lesson is the same.

Public safety is strongest when organizations work together toward a common goal.

Before closing, I want to briefly address a challenge that we're facing that that is law enforcement agencies across the country are facing, and that's employee retention.

While we were very successful with recruiting replacements in 2025, hiring 16 officers during the year.

Every experienced officer we keep is knowledge, training, leadership, money, and community relationships that remain in Fort Smith.

Every one that we lose creates substantial financial and human costs, both for our officers and for our citizens.

While turnover remains a challenge throughout our profession, we continue to focus on creating an environment where employees can succeed, grow professionally, and build long-term careers.

One of the tools that we're using to better understand our workforce is anonymous employee feedback.

At the end of 2025, I directed our employee wellness officer to participate in a workplace satisfaction study conducted by our accreditation organization, CALEA.

This anonymous and voluntary survey, which you have a copy of in front of you, was completed by 171 of our employees, roughly 91% of those employed at the police department at that time.

The workplace satisfaction survey has provided valuable insight into what we're doing well, and where improvements are needed.

The feedback confirms what many of us already know.

Our employees are deeply committed to serving Fort Smith.

They take pride in their work, and they want to be part of an organization that continues investing in its people.

There is a high degree of satisfaction with the respondents' ability to meet career goals, training and resources, pay and benefits, and agency support and civil and criminal suits.

FSPD respondents have slightly higher public service motivation and slightly less job stress than the overall sample of 38 CALIA accredited agencies nationwide.

82.5% of respondents from the FSPD reported having a mentor who helped their career development compared to 74% of the full sample.

The not-so-good findings, only 59.5% indicated they would still be working for the FSPD in six months compared to 75.2% of all agencies included in the survey.

46.

Forty six point three percent indicated they were likely to leave employment in law enforcement entirely.

Of seven negative career experiences within the past six months, for which the FSPD scored worse than the overall average of other agencies, six of those negative experiences can be directly attributed to funding and/or staffing issues.

Those included lack of sufficient training, lack of proper tools to do the job, the agency is technologically behind, missed an important family friend function, or worked sick due to low staffing.

The department's initiatives related to professional development, equipment modernization, the take-home vehicles, officer wellness program, and the future facility improvements that we're trying to do are all part of that long-term retention strategy.

As we look forward to 20 toward 2026, our focus remains clear.

We will continue investing in our people.

We will continue investing in technology and infrastructure, and we will continue strengthening community partnerships.

And finally, we will continue providing proactive professional law enforcement services that keep Fort Smith safe.

The accomplishments highlighted in this report belong to the men and women of the Fort Smith Police Department, our city leadership, and the many community partners who work alongside us every day.

Would like to thank Eric Mitchell for the hard work that he put in to compiling this information.

It takes a lot to draw all of this data from all across the department and condense it into a presentable report.

I really appreciate his efforts, the efforts of my command staff to provide accurate data, data that I know I can trust, and therefore know that you can trust.

Thank you for your continued support of public safety in Fort Smith, and I would be happy to answer any of your questions.

Thank you, Chief.

Chief, thank you for that.

When we're looking at um agency technologically behind, what is the technology we're missing?

I think we and we discussed that uh today, actually.

I think that what probably prompted that response was issues that we've had with our CAD RMS system, frustrations involved with that, connection issues, bandwidth issues.

Um we have not been able to identify any specific technology that the officers have requested and not received.

So I think that was probably uh some of the motivation for that response.

Okay.

One thing I didn't hear you mention is response times.

What are what are response times look like compared to this time last year?

Uh they are about the same.

Um, we've actually, in some areas, response times have gotten better, particularly on the some of the lower priority calls.

Uh we've not seen a reduction in any response times.

Good.

Um, and then also how many shell casings have we recovered this year?

How many shell casings?

Uh-huh.

Oh goodness.

I was not prepared for that one.

Um I don't know, but I will get that answer for you.

Okay, thank you.

Are you curious about those that we've submitted to the crime lab for uh fingerprinting and analysis?

I had read an article that was talking about how it's a good indicator of violent crime, the amount of shell casings that are recovered.

Okay, and then you touched on drugs fentanyl's drop to number three.

Do we know what the fentanyl deaths in Fort Smith look like this year?

I don't know that we've had any this year.

Okay, overdoses have have significantly declined, thankfully.

Okay, thank you.

Yes, Director Kemp, then Director Martin.

Thank you, Vice Mayor.

Uh thank you, Chief, for the presentation.

I really appreciate the data, the work you that went in to put this together.

I really like the vision statement on the back that that's written out there and highlights it.

Um I can appreciate the fact that you're not just saying we're doing our job, but you're putting together information like this.

I like the precedence that it sets, even as uh, you know, one day when you retire.

I hope there's a precedent set that there's an annual report that put together, has this data.

When you went over those facts, you talked about that sexual assault continues to be a problem and is on the uptick in comparison to other areas.

Is there any ways that we can be confronting that with community policing that you're thinking about?

Uh, you know, since it seems to be something that we're dealing with on the uptick.

Yes, sir, and we have.

We've taken uh many proactive steps to try to get in front of this.

Um, I think part of the issue is the building of trust results in more people coming forward and reporting instances of assaults.

So I I mean I'm gonna take that as a win.

Uh but uh things like working with the crisis center uh crisis intervention center and crisis center for women.

Uh we have assigned uh detectives specifically to uh working those cases, uh working with those other partners.

Um they've provided office space for us in their building so that we can conduct interviews away from the police department and places that are more comfortable.

Uh we've done a number of public service announcements about uh the importance of reporting this and and the importance of recognizing when you are a victim yourself and and being willing to come forward with that.

What about the DWI increases that we see?

I mean, like drug drivers obviously that they take people's lives.

Sure.

That's very dangerous.

Uh is there any ways that we do we know what is there a certain age category that seems to be doing that?

Is there any sort of analyzation of that data?

I'm gonna say that I have not noticed any kind of um trend regarding the age group uh people that are arrested.

Um it seems to be that I mean there's somewhat of a cultural component to this, I guess.

I mean uh people taking the chance to get behind the wheel of a car when you know they when they should uh be calling someone.

I don't uh the availability of alternative transportation.

I I would be hesitant to say that that's a factor in people choosing to drive intoxicated because I have never had a problem getting an Uber ride in Fort Smith at any time of the day or not.

Um but uh no to to answer your question, I I would guess that it's probably across the board.

Um, maybe on the younger side.

But yeah, and then you last one, I just wanted to kind of make circle back on because it went fast.

There's a lot of numbers there, but we talked about you talked about well over 1,400, and I didn't see the last two numbers, but over 1,400 uh animals picked up to the animal haven service there.

But then you mentioned about citations that were cited.

How many how many animal citations were given out last in the last year?

It was uh let's say 400 and my question is do you feel like is that effective?

Is that does that need to be reviewed by the board to look at or because it seems I couldn't get to catch the number, but that is a lot of animals?

It's like a hundred and seventeen or something a month if I had my number, but I think I had the wrong numbers.

So is your question?

Does the board need to get involved with the enforcement side of it, or is the animal issue something that the board needs to address?

My question really is is the citation effective?

Um is there any work that needs to be done from a policy standpoint there?

And how many I didn't know how many you we wrote?

I'm starting trying to find that point.

I think it was 451.

Is that sound?

It was 400 something, I thought, so that's why I was it's a lot a lot to uh go back through here.

I remember where it was at.

The reason I said is sometimes one of the things I've heard is that people are saying, well, we need to increase citations for uh when people are violating uh you know the law on this with animal citations, but then you just said a big number.

So I was like, okay, well, how many did we write?

I think you might have found it.

It was 451 animal-related citations.

Um, one thousand four hundred and eighty-five animals taken to the animal shelter.

So, what would an example of like uh what's a common running at large?

Okay, unfortunately, animal cruelty seems to be pretty common.

Um the the prosecutor's office um and the district courts.

I mean, we kind of have to j base our enforcement efforts off of what they can handle, you know, the the amount of uh cases that they can see uh now that we have a reduced number of animal wardens, that's also a factor.

Uh they can't be, I mean, they're spending all of their time answering calls and and you know picking up animals instead of uh doing more proactive things like writing tickets and if they write a citation they have to go to court, is that right?

Generally, uh unless unless the defendant pleas makes a plea before court, but yes it is require them to attend court and testify.

Um I think we have I mean and I I can only base this off of the feedback that we get from the community.

I mean, you know at one time you know the animal uh control issue was something that was very much uh at the at the surface and constantly at the surface.

Uh that doesn't seem to be the case at this time.

Uh I can only assume that that people are satisfied with the results that they're seeing.

Uh I think that the the shelter maybe has gotten a little bit more efficient uh getting animals in and out and either relocated with owners or transported elsewhere.

Um so hopeful hopefully we've got the right balance right now.

But I as I've said many times, we need we need more animal wardens, we need more people doing the the things that need to be done.

Thank you, Chief.

Any other comments or questions for the chief?

Well, that George Settled and General Gordon gets out of it.

Georgia recognized.

Let's just let somebody pick it.

Let's go.

George, go ahead.

I thought Neil was next.

Oh, he's not going.

Chief.

Yes, sir.

Good presentation.

Thank you.

Per FBI data, a town our site should have how many officers?

I believe it's 190, 1950.

100 sworn officers based based on population?

And we have currently?

Yes, sir.

We're authorized 160 and we currently have 154.

That was due to budget cuts.

Um well the budget cuts reduced uh vacant positions at the time.

We've had you couldn't refill them.

You couldn't hire.

No, correct.

Uh I mean at the time the the positions were covered.

I think we need to just the board needs to discuss this and to get their manpower back.

I mean it's a plus for the city, plus for the citizens.

Uh Chief, I'm a quick do you know how many calls went to people to the parks to to the parks?

Black Creek Moore.

Did you know how many calls go to the the Caroline Cross?

Uh I don't know what I didn't I didn't bring that with me, but I actually had that data pulled a few weeks ago uh for another incident so I could get that to you.

But is patrolling the parks a uh common occurrence with the police?

Uh I mean we get a fair amount of calls usually vandalism or I mean you got so many children.

You got so many children and parents there, and you know, you know, it's expected.

I mean, we expect where people congregate, we're gonna have probably more calls.

Do we need should we look into a parks police department?

That was actually a strategic plan that was uh being worked on.

Um I think that's something we need to look at.

I can't do it with the current staffing level.

Well, I understand that.

And I'd like to get y'all out of the animal control business and turn that over to private private private entity.

I don't think y'all need to be messing with that.

Not gonna argue with that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Was it 300 something thousand?

Uh, I mean, including the contract with the shelter, it's probably two million, a little shy of two million with personnel.

But that includes the s uh supporting the shelter and the and the P.

Yes.

Two million dollars.

Uh yeah, one point one point five to two million.

I think that's accurate.

It's about one point seven or one point eight for the twenty twenty-six adopted budget with about one point one million going to the shelter and the rest of personnel.

Yeah, I'd like to see all the you know, just let's just privatize this somehow.

There's people out there willing to do this that would really, I think they could raise the money and and get you know help you all out and take care of our animals.

Make sure they got their animal because they can't pick up an animal if they don't have room at the shelter.

They do, we deal with that every day.

I know.

I'm sorry we can't take it, there's no room.

And and I don't I don't think that's necessarily shelters's fault.

I mean, we'd still we have this issue of irresponsible pet ownership.

Um, people not doing the right thing.

And I hope again that we're getting better with that.

I hope that the you know the the reduced um outcry from the public is maybe an indication that things are kind of starting to click.

Yeah, okay.

One last question.

How many on the the the robbery, burglary, assaults, how many of those people are repeat offenders?

Do you have do you all track that?

I wouldn't say we track it, but we know it when they are.

You know like what percentage?

I would say it's significant.

Significant.

Yes.

So the courts aren't actually putting those people away, are they?

Or putting them away for a short amount of time.

Well, yeah, but I'm saying that that's not a deterrent.

I mean, that's like a temporary vacation for some of these people.

You know, so recidivism is a is a problem.

It has long been a problem.

Um we a very small segment of the population creates the the most amount of problems for us.

Yeah.

Well, if our Arkansas legislature and governor would have some guts and put and pass some laws that that has some teeth in it, you know, we can stop a lot of this.

But who knows what'll happen.

Thank you, Danny.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Uh thank you, Vice Mayor.

Uh Chief, excellent presentation.

Thank you.

Your team's doing a fabulous work.

When I go back to 2019 and look at uh page 11 with the crime A data, uh that's the year of the flood and the COVID hit after that, and you compare it 2019 to 2025, we'll go down 2,606 crime A incidents.

Fabulous work by you and your team.

I mean, that is a massive drop in the course of six years.

A lot of hard work for us, some very professional and dedicated people and a good community uh that works with us.

Thank you very much.

Thanks for hearing.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Director Kent.

Thank you, Vice Mayor.

Uh, question I guess for you, Chief Baker and uh Director George Gonzavis.

I know he's getting a refill over here real quick.

Uh, what would the privatization of animal care look like?

I mean, is there a way for someone to make dollars and take that burden from us?

I mean, what does that look like?

I can see where the animal control function could be handled by a private organization.

Um we've taken a look at Rogers um a number of times for their uh animal welfare and animal services program.

I think I think Rogers is kind of a hybrid.

They have non-police employees of the city who uh do the animal animal control function.

Um the only the only place that I would see that there might be a hiccup um is with the enforcement aspect of it.

Um there would probably be be a need for um maybe changing our ordinances to where they're a civil penalty rather than a criminal offense, because I mean, as they are, they are a criminal offense, and so you you have to have you know somebody that works for the police department to issue that citation.

The other alternative would be when you know, if say a a civilian uh citizen non non-police uh animal control officer uh identified somebody who was in violation and wanted the citation issued, uh they could call a police officer to write the ticket.

And I mean that's the way it was handled here for a long, long time.

Uh I'm hesitant to offer that up because that I mean, without more officers on the streets, uh, we don't need to be tying them up with with animal calls.

Um but I mean it I I think it could be done.

I we've talked, I've talked to Jeff about it a number of times.

I talked to Carl about it before he left.

Um you know, it if the police department is where it needs to be, then we'll, you know, we'll continue to do the very best job we can, but I agree that it's not necessarily best suited to be in the police department.

Perhaps another city department, perhaps its own department or a private entity.

So is there is it still a city funded program?

Yes.

I mean, because otherwise I'm trying to figure out where the ROI is.

I mean, obviously, picking up an animal that has been mistreated and then taking it is probably not going to yield you much money until unless you sold that animal or you know transported it to another.

I don't understand how they or is it just sponsored by the budget itself and there's not a need for an ROI.

Jeff, do you want to speak to that?

If I might say I mean privatization of any function, animal control is the one we're talking about now does come does carry a cost.

I mean uh there would be a trade off uh and a little bit of loss of control of how we managed and directed that those resources but I mean privatization doesn't mean that it's it's a free service.

I mean we still would have to pay for it and so it's not necessarily a cost savings.

So last comment I'm gonna make on this then uh because it sounds like this should go to a study session of my opinion sir George uh but is it the idea that the police officer's pay schedule is at a higher value than what a privatized animal unit would be.

Well is there savings in that regard for perhaps although we're talking about animal control officers which isn't the same as a police officer pay scale it's a little bit different so I think it's probably comparable to what a private entity would need to pay for similar employees to do the similar work.

I mean anybody can make a can make a proposal on how and how the cost structure would work but I'm just wanted to point out that there still would be a cost.

Okay thank you any other comments or questions for the chief director good thank you vice mayor chief everyone's already thanked you and yes another great job on your report thanks Eric for putting it all together um you know I I like to um you use you use a statement relationships matter and I and I want to use that uh and and and question because I didn't really see if there's a difference uh in the number of arrest made I see that everything has gone down from arson robbery um all of this in and um I guess it's uh group A property theft what I'm what I want to ask is is there a difference in numbers between adults and youth youth crimes in the in the city um I think we're see we've seen a decline in the the number of young people involved in crimes uh the serious things uh unfortunately and one of them was showcased in the video you know we we have a small group of people that were committing some pretty serious crimes we identified them we got them off the streets and we don't have problems anymore okay um but I think uh I know that uh Officer Scott and the SHILD Our Youth program has done some incredible work uh with young people you know being that uh mentor and and stepping in at the first sign of trouble you know before there is actually a uh a delinquency case or an arrest uh and I and I really am thankful to officer Scott as well and and the rest of the team that are out there making community contact um the numbers here it says um 393 total number of events you know uh job well done yeah more than one a day absolutely absolutely and what these do just like the feeding program that that you said you know distributed six thousand sixty four hundred meals gives the opportunity for our officers to meet you know these young folks and their parents and vice versa and to establish relationships so it's a trust building uh mechanism and I think it works well it's also a crime fighting tool absolutely thank you chief yes sir chief thank you to you and your whole team for the hard work that you do and the heroic work that you do and thanks for always uh being willing to come here and and answer our questions and keep us keep us and everybody watching informed thank you thank you it's been my pleasure thank you director martin can you give us an update on officer newman any anything new that you could share I don't want to put you on the spot but anything new that you can share about Officer Newman I expect them to go home this week very cool very good very cool and it it is not a small miracle that that is the case.

Yep.

It is not a small miracle.

That's awesome.

Absolutely.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Chief.

Next up, we have a presentation from another group of heroes uh at the Fort Smith fire department for their annual report.

Chief, thank you for being here tonight.

Make sure we're going.

Good evening, Acting Administrator Dingman, Vice Mayor Rego, Board of Directors, and Citizens of Fort Smith.

I'm proud to be here tonight on behalf of the 147 men and women of the Fort Smith Fire Department and presenting our review of 2025.

2025 presented many challenges for the fire department, but through hard work and dedication, we had another successful year.

Mid year we started a search for a new record management system.

After completing our search, we began the arduous task of implementation and training.

We have made tremendous progress and hope to have this project completed in the next 60 days.

Our new RMS is far more advanced and customizable.

As part of this project, we also replaced all of the rugged mobile data computers used in the fire fleet that had far exceeded their normal lifespan.

We are now actively searching for a new tablet software that will increase the amount of information provided to the fire companies as they respond to incidents.

The largest hurdle we faced in 2025 was operating budget reductions for 26.

I started working on options with varying reduction amounts.

After several back and forth conversations with administration and finance, I still needed more reductions.

The only way to achieve the desired level of reductions was to reduce personnel.

The priorities I used to guide me while I developed personnel reduction options were to prevent any negative impact on the citizens, keep all current employees without any reductions of pay or benefits, keep all fire stations open, and minimize the loss of points and future ISO audits.

Then the marathon of working very late nights and weekends began running figures on every scenario I could come up with.

I talked several times with past Fort Smith Fire Chiefs running my ideas by them.

I believe I found the only option that I could offer that met my priorities while presenting administration with the level of operational budget reductions they wanted from fire.

Before completing my first month as fire chief, I made one of the toughest decisions of my career, offered to eliminate seven uniform positions.

This was achieved by closing pumper 11, eliminating the three driver positions, eliminating the three firefighter positions, and eliminating an administrative battalion chief position.

One positive aspect to this reduction was keeping the three captain positions from Pumper 11 and moving them to our heavy rescue rescue one.

Fire chiefs before me have tried to add captains to this company for years.

Rescue one was our only fire company staffed with two personnel, only a driver and firefighter.

All Fort Smith fire companies are now staffed with a captain, driver, and firefighter.

Some response data.

All this data was in your packet.

And with our transition between RMS systems, we do have some skewed data.

We do have some missing data.

If you notice the daytime matrix chart, it'll show 15,769 incidents.

We actually ended exactly on 16,000 in our reports.

And that chart is one you can spend a lot of time on going through the days and the hours.

Next are our 10 busiest days, the busiest days that we occur usually occur due to storm systems moving through the area.

We normally average 40 to 50 incidents per shift.

This chart shows the addresses we we responded to the most in 2025.

Most of these addresses are large apartment complexes, assisted living facilities with high concentrations of residents.

In 2025, we had several retirements and resignations.

These personnel had a combined 139 years of experience.

Colton Cox in fleet maintenance resigned after nine years of service.

Firefighter Matthew Helms resigned after six years to join the Fayetteville Fire Department.

Driver Ben Phillips retired after 29 years of service.

Captain Marcus Floyd resigned after 12 years of service.

Captain Roy Smith retired after 24 years of service.

Battalion Chief Skip Matthews retired after 33 years of service.

And Fire Chief Boyd Waters retired after 26 years of service.

Retirements and resignations create the opportunity for promotions.

We come together to acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the newly promoted each year.

Our promotional ceremonies are an event for the family and friends to participate and be recognized.

Personnel honor family and friends by having them pin their new rank on their uniform during the ceremony.

The personnel that promoted in 25 are Andrew Cottle to driver, Joe Cobb Sims to driver, Avery Short to driver, Joseph Baker to driver, Chase Stepp to Captain, Matthew Taylor to Captain, and Ben Knoll to Battalion Chief.

Corey Vaughn to the assistant chief of administration, and in this I'm also including Ethan Millard, who was promoted to assistant chief of operations, even though he technically promoted in January of 26.

Chief Willard was number one on the promotional eligibility list, but to help the department out, he asked me to promote Chief Vaughn first, who was number two on the list.

Chief Vaughn was staffing the position that was being eliminated the same date of the first assistant chief promotion.

Chief Millard then promoted as part of our department's restructuring that began January of 26 that created the second assistant fire chief position over operations.

Finally, I'm honored to have been chosen as the next fire chief of the Fort Smith Fire Department.

It was an honor to have Fire Chief Boyd Waters and Acting Administrator Dingman participate in our department's changing of command ceremony.

And following promotions, we are left with vacant firefighter positions to fill.

We have a physically challenging application process.

However, if you receive a conditional offer of employment, you are just getting started.

Each class of new hires is required to pass our department's 80-hour fire attack indoctrination program and the department's fitness test.

Fire TAC pushes new hires to their limits while they learn many basic skills they will utilize as firefighters.

The last day of TAC starts off with the victory run.

Current firefighters lead the new hires in the victory run, celebrating their achievement.

Our fire attack program has been in place for over 15 years, and during that time it has changed the culture of the Fort Smith Fire Department, placing emphasis on maintaining physical fitness.

Those with the mental toughness to pass fire attack have earned the privilege of wearing the Fort Smith Fire Department badge.

New firefighters participate in a pinning ceremony where they are sworn in.

They have their new firefighter badge pinned on them by a proud family member.

Following their swearing in, new firefighters will do three shifts of on duty job shadowing before they leave for the Arkansas Fire Training Academy where they will train for 13 weeks.

Members of our 25 Proby class were Trey Knight, Mason Barshears, Caleb Hamby, Luke Vocal, Scott Christian, Ezekiel Sharp, Luke Ward, Ryan Sides, Cale Bar Shears, Tanner Myers, Justin Crider, Riley Hattaway, Josiah Davis, John Shaver, and Brandon Shelton.

Not many firefighters seek recognition for the demanding job they do in extremely hazardous conditions.

However, we recognize our personnel when they go above and beyond the call of duty.

Firefighter of the year, driver Andrew Cottle.

Driver Cottle serves on ladder three A shift.

He's a technical rescue instructor, a member of the Honor Guard, and Swiftwater team.

His brother Nathan Cottle is a driver on Pumper One, and their grandfather is the late Captain Warren Cottle, retired from the Fort Smith Fire Department.

Company Officer of the Year was Captain Josh Edwards.

Captain Edwards serves on Ladder 3 on C Shift.

He is a member of the Honor Guard Swift Water Team and WMD team.

He provides medical training for our department, area paramedics and other city non-uniform employees.

He is the son of battalion chief, retired battalion chief David Edwards.

Fire Chiefs coined for excellence for making the grab.

On June 9th of 25, driver Avery Short and firefighter Jarrett Sharp were off duty at Tyler Bend, excuse me, canoe launch, where they saw a canoe flip over in the Buffalo River.

Two juvenile girls were in the water and in trouble.

The river was currently at flood stage.

Without hesitation, they went in in fast-moving water in dangerous conditions.

They swam to the girls, brought them safely back to shore, reuniting them with their father.

Their actions saved lives.

They relied on their training, stayed calm under pressure, and did what they had been taught to do.

That is one interesting thing about firemen.

They're always firemen, whether on or off duty.

He led this complex department-wide transition and trained every member of the department during shifts after hours on weekends and even on holidays.

He also serves as a liaison with the River Valley Communications Center in the Fort Smith Police Department, ensuring coordination and continuity throughout the process.

He was recognized for his saving the life of a paramedic while on a medical call with his fire company.

One of the paramedics on the ambulance began experiencing a severe medical emergency.

Captain Edwards utilized his advanced paramedic skills to assess and treat the medic saving her life.

Responses broke down further, 141 building fires, 59 vehicle fires, 144 fires classified as other, 11,193 medical calls, 48 rescue calls, 898 false alarms.

Approximate value of property responded to was 48,244,565.

Our estimated property loss value was approximately 3,663,350, which gave us a property loss of 7.59% and over 92% saved.

Recruitment is an ongoing challenge.

So far we have managed to hire highly capable firefighters, but it is getting harder to find qualified applicants.

Additionally, we have sporadically experienced retention problems.

We just added three new firefighters to company after graduating from the academy, and I still have four remaining vacancies.

I have two additional firefighters that are looking at joining the Fayetteville Fire Department.

Pay is an important issue that will need to be discussed while preparing the 27 budget.

We have completed our own salary survey of the usual fire departments, and I am working on two pay increase options.

Fire apparatus prices and build times also continue to climb and be an ongoing problem.

In 2025, the Fort Smith Fire Department personnel participated in a combined 13,000 hours of training.

The Arkansas Fire Training Academy was unable to accommodate our class of 15 probies from our department.

So we did our own in-house fire academy.

This is a very large undertaking for our training division and our department.

Highlights of the classes taught during this academy are hazardous materials awareness and operations level, 40 hours.

Wildland firefighting, 16 hours, firefighter one and two, 360 hours, driver operator, 80 hours, EMT course, 300 hours.

The training division also taught the following in-house courses to FSFD personnel.

Acquired structure training, commercial strip mall training, search and rescue operations in single and multi-story residential structures, commercial flat roof ventilation, and forcible entry training, residential duplex, and multi-story structure training.

These acquired structures allow our personnel to participate in real-world training that cannot be accomplished with training props.

Additional in-house training included rope rescue awareness and operations, rapid intervention team operations and firefighter rescue, hose advancement and long hose lay pumping operations.

Stop the bleed, mass casualty incident response, roof ventilation operations, victim removal from elevated positions, and fire suppression operations and hoarding conditions.

We also hosted outside entities for specialized training classes.

Aerial rope operations course was taught by Task Force One from New York.

Twenty-five of our firefighters participated in this 24-hour training.

Eight firefighters participated in a 30-hour chainsaw operations course from an accredited instructors.

This class is important as we work towards creating a storm response unit that will be deployed during and after storms that create damage in our city.

Lastly, we send personnel to various training opportunities around the country.

After attending these classes, the personnel work with the training division to develop curriculum to teach the new skills or techniques to our entire department.

Some of the outside training personnel attended are the fire symposium and conference in Wichita, Kansas, had two fire marshals take plans examiner and fire inspector, two firefighters that went to confined space and structural collapse training, and Pacific Northwest Fire Conference, search and rescue hot training, and two firefighters that got their live fire training instructor.

These classes provide hands-on instruction, specialized advanced rescue techniques.

This and training will increase our department's capabilities when responding to complex rescue incidents.

And lastly, anyone interested in becoming a Fort Smith Firefighter.

The QR code takes you to the City of Fort Smith, become a firefighter web page, and anyone with questions can email our recruiters at FSFD, FSFD Careers at Fort Smith AR.gov.

Thank you for the opportunity to present our review of 25 and brag on the amazing men and women of the Fort Smith Fire Department.

I will now stand for questions.

Thank you, Chief.

You know, in turn, you talked about pay.

In terms of pay, how do we rank with other cities in our region?

It has been a little while since I finished compiling all the data.

I had a couple of Little Rock and some other larger cities that I had to deal with the HR departments instead of a fire chief or assistant chief to get that data.

But we are North Little Rock is a common one that uh we're compared to because we're 11 stations, similar number of personnel.

They now have more personnel than us.

Um and we have been neck and neck with them, but Northwest Arkansas, we can't compete with.

We start at 437 and they started oh Fayetteville starts over 52,000.

That's pretty significant.

Now that I I do I am interested in um your your budget planning for 2027 and kind of what those maybe pay uh I've started I have I have entered all the uh data into the spreadsheet.

I copied one from the um salary surveys that we used to pay for.

Um I don't remember the company, but I have a copied the layout of it that does all the calculations and I have kind of the normal five percent adjustment that we've done in the past, and then I have my swinging for the fences option that if we really want to we're not gonna be the highest paid, but we also don't have the highest cost of living, but it would put us over 50,000 starting out, and I think that would be so significant, especially given our lower cost of living than a lot of other people.

I do too.

I really I'd like to see that.

It um I spent uh a day with your with uh station one and uh they had a really good time.

It was uh as a good guys down there, um, and uh so I I you know I I've I was I was really appreciative of the work that they do.

Um so I'm I'm interested in in seeing what what you bring to us.

I notice the number one place that you visit is Hope Campus.

You're there, you're there every day, multiple times a day.

Multiple so the you say this this the number here is 342.

Is that uh you think that's when if it's 342, is it is that the number of days that you go out there, or is that just that's the number of incidents okay, number that we responded there and okay.

They completed a report.

A lot of times it's a multiple.

I used to years ago, I was at station four when it opened as a captain, and we were second in, so if station one was already gone on calls, we would go, it's usually a multiple because then somebody else will say, I'm having trouble breathing too.

So then I get another incident number for them.

Start we start treating and assessing them while we're taking care of the other one, waiting on the ambulance, and then if they don't want to go to the same medical facility and comfortable riding together, we have to wait for another ambulance.

And I've had three at the same time, and I I know the guys have two, right?

So with with the closing of Baptist or not closing a Baptist, but the the reduction of of Baptists that had any impact on you guys right now.

Not on us.

Fort Smith EMS is the ones that are really gonna um they'll probably see a huge uptick.

I know they're looking at ways to prepare for long distance transfers out of town, right to their other facilities.

Okay.

But that uh 342 is your is the number of incidents to Hope Campus.

The next one's 199.

That's pr pretty significantly higher than anything else that we've got.

And I think I think those those are kind of assisted living places.

Yes, most all of them are apartments.

Like I said, our assisted living.

Um I think the links are in there and uh some of the other large apartment complexes, and then some of the assisted living, the 1500 Fresno, uh 8420 Phoenix, I think is the other one.

Maybe not but one Duncan.

Yeah, my mother-in-law is in there, so uh so it's um those you have a high concentration, like I said.

So it's but I think I believe Hope Campus was no I know they were number one last year.

I don't know previous years without going back and looking, but I know it's always up there.

Right.

Um that it ends up getting expensive when you start talking uh your firefighters there, your um equipment, all that kind of stuff.

So yeah, the the last thing I'll I'll I'll ask is as we're talking about numbers.

How many how many firefighters are how many firefighters do you have right now?

Do you set it out?

149, is that what it was?

147, four of those are non-uniform.

147.

So we have one 143 uniform firefighters.

Okay.

Um we were 150.

We were 150.

So um Chief Baker talked about or uh George Katzavis asked uh uh Chief Baker about um FBI numbers, and and I know I've I've had that conversation with with the chief.

It is, you know, and and there's different numbers associated with different accredited bodies, things like that.

So based on our population, is there a number that of firefighters that we need to have?

I'm not aware of that calculation.

Usually you will see um the number of fire marshals per capita for fire prevention and doing inspections because every city we're unique.

That's you know, a lot of people are surprised they think we're a really small city, but we have a lot of fire stations.

But we support the whole region, they don't come help us.

We go out into the county, we go over into Oklahoma, and so we have to have a little more staffing.

Plus, we all know our population more than doubles during the weekday.

Right.

So even though you know we're a smaller square mileage that we're covering, we're providing service to a lot more people.

So kind of a unique situation, sure.

Well, I'll just say this you guys are are great at what you do.

Um I'm appreciative of them and and uh we take pride in the work that you guys do.

So thank you.

Thank you.

We do too.

Thank you.

We'll go, Director Christina Kit Savis, then Director Settle, then Director Kemp.

Um Chief, thank you for the presentation.

You mentioned um you're having trouble finding qualified applicants.

What qualifications are the applicants lacking?

Um just the numbers that are physically capable, because we uh we have about 50 percent fail rate on the uh physical agility test and on the written test, actually, and then uh the TAC program.

We usually have weeded them down there, but we're still it'll vary 30 to 40 percent fail out of that, and it's uh it is very grueling, like I said, but it's intentional because I want them to quit in their first two weeks, not when we have a huge fire that we're on all night, and then we have a collapse and have a rescue, and then they decide they're done.

We find out if they have what it takes before they get there, right?

Um, I was against the budget cuts.

I didn't vote for those for police and fire.

I I was concerned about what it would do to morale.

Can you tell me what morale is like after cutting those positions?

I would say uh I was surprised actually how good it was.

Hear rumblings through the rumor mill, um, through people that you know let me know stuff of one or two, but overall the heavy rescue gaining a full having a full company was huge because I mean that is an enormous truck.

That's what Director Martin wrote on it.

It is nothing but a 26-foot body with full of tools.

They're the ones that are gonna you know pick you off of a rope up off of a water tower, extricate you out of a car, they go to every car wreck, specialty rescue house fire.

They're you know, they're our hardest chargers, and we had a firefighter and a driver, I'm sorry, firefighter and a driver operating all of that.

So that was a huge bump to them.

Um pay is a big thing, but it is for all of us because everything is insane when you go to the store.

Right, absolutely.

Um that's all I've got.

Thank you for the job you do.

I appreciate you.

Thank you.

So I thank you, Jared.

Chief, great job.

Thank you.

I I think we got the right person the right job.

It's very interesting looking to the data for 2015 or 2025.

Only 344 are fire calls.

2.15 percent is fire calls.

That's amazing when you try to compare 70% is medical costs.

I mean, that's industry wide.

Yeah, that's industry wide.

It's just it's interesting that we're the fire department, but we spend 97% of the time not taking care of fires with on other things.

And we have a lot more fires in Northwest Arkansas.

That's we joke with the guys that leave us and tell them well, we'll we'll send you pictures of the fires we have because they don't have a tiny fraction of the fires we have.

Yeah.

I I think you hit up what my concern is, and I think we're always worried about it.

Is we're starting to see new vehicles coming in taking longer to get here.

Is there any movement on that?

Is that speeding up or is it still taking that long?

And is there anything that we can do or you know state legislators can do to help out?

Because I I mean, I remember you, one time said it's like three years or four years to get a new truck, and I'm just struggling in my head how that's even feasible, possible waiting that long.

Yeah, it has made the replacement um schedule we had.

I've pretty much had to just scrap it.

Destroy it.

Okay, because and I talk with Chief Waters often, you know, because he he was here as we were starting to experience that, but yeah, it's um we're getting to the point where we're also getting down where we're our sinking fund can only cover about two more apparatus by my estimate.

So the price is just going up tremendously.

The um I'm trying to spec finish specs on a new heavy rescue, and they're estimating the build time on it 48 to 50 months, and it's more than double what we paid for the current one.

And I'm actually going shorter, and with no this one, the current one we have has a filling station to fill SCBA bottles, has a light tower on top that's like 80,000 lumen.

They never use it, they don't like the filling station, and it takes up a whole lot of space in the compartments.

So we're actually going with a two-foot shorter truck, gaining lots of room, but still it's twice as much.

If I ordered the same truck, it would be over two million dollars, and we paid 700 for the one we have.

Is there and I'm not asking for answer today, but as you start looking at 2026 or 2027, maybe 2028.

If only um two percent of our calls are fire, is there any way we can relook at what apparatuses we might be using and maybe get something that's a little bit less expensive so we can extend the life of our fire trucks that does the emergency calls.

I'm I'm not trying to discredit not do that, but I'm just wondering if there's a different thought process, not asking answer today, but as you and your team look at it, is there a different thought process that maybe we can we can do something different?

Maybe it's a XYZ different type of vehicle that could be for rescue.

I mean for uh medical calls versus uh a truck because I think that there's not I mean we can put all the money out there, it's just it's prices going up so fast, and then the time's taking forever.

Um, oh yeah, and we used to just have 10,000 calls a year, and now we hit 16.

I mean, the last five years we set a record each year.

Yeah, so that's I'm thinking the medical calls keep going up.

Is there a different thought process?

And so we've been looking at it for several years trying to uh it's just tough because we don't have room for additional vehicles, and then in inclement weather, it can delay response, but we are gonna put some at the stations that are only an aerial or a ladder truck, and that's something I'll be bringing to the board here soon, a new building to build that I need more storage at our maintenance facility as we move vehicles out to put a one of our previous Tahoes there so that they can use that for medical, but you have to kind of roll the dice too because then it delays them responding to a fire when they come in if they have to go back and get it.

But it's kind of we do we have to at this point is kind of how I explain it to them.

They hate that part.

That one doesn't help morale, but they understand also we're expecting the ladder truck to last us 15 years, and our one that we got in 24, I think it already has 200,000 miles on it, okay.

And that's a lot of miles on a 75,000 pound truck.

Thank you very much, Chief.

Thank you.

Thanks, Chair.

Dr.

Kemp.

Thank you, Vice Mayor.

Thank you, Chief Clark, for a great presentation and uh just seeing the retirees and seeing the awards, it shows it uh we have a hard-working team, and I really appreciate that uh you and coming in here and celebrating your department's uh victories there.

Do we currently with that 50% fail rate?

And I know that it is pretty hard because I did know someone that tried to get into the fire department program and he was hoping, but he he didn't, he was just outside of the cut window of what y'all needed to bring in at the time, and he talked about how intense it is, which I think is a good thing that you guys have a high bar.

Have we thought about high school recruitment programs in Fort Smith and trying to retain uh retain some of our maybe high school graduates that are planning not for uh formal education?

Do we get a chance to get into our schools?

We go to high schools all over the region in Oklahoma.

Some of the guys that especially guys that their kids uh just got into high school or graduated high school, so they you know, Mouldrow, Roland, smaller cities where they know the administration.

But yes, we go to all over.

So do we get in south side and north side?

Do we get to out at Peak and uh all of them, and then every uh job fare that we can that we're made aware of or find out about, we go to and it uh because it's a great career for somebody if you don't want to go to college or and I even tell them we'll help pay for your college if you want to get on.

But I 100% agree.

I just I know an army recruiter called me about my son the other day, and I thought, what in the world?

Like, you know, he had their numbered and don't even know how you got my number, but then I was like, Well, let me talk.

So I just got me thinking about recruiting.

Two is on North Little Rock, their count.

How many fire do we have any idea of how many firefighters they have?

I know you said they had more, but I'm just wondering.

I mean, we're we've always like I said, been real close, but I think that they and I don't know a lot of people that have more non-uniform and more command staff, but I think that they're around 160.

There are 11 stations about as much as I know about them off the top of my head.

With your current plans, and I'm looking forward to hearing more about them in the budget season.

Uh, with the with the looking to add positions on, looking at the pay positions.

If you add positions on, are you looking to bring the pumper back, or do you want to utilize those new positions in other capacities with maybe a strategic repositioning of what you've done?

Well, we're limited by our locations and the size of everything, so I mean it bringing back the pumper would be pretty much the only option, but I have since reassigned that truck to another spot, and that's kind of what I can't remember who I was presenting to.

Um, might have been civil service commission that was talking about we know.

Well, I know that we're watching the numbers quarterly, and I was like, well, this isn't a light switch that you can turn on and off.

You know, we didn't freeze positions like I've heard mentioned, or you know, didn't fill vacant positions.

Our staffing's the same every day.

I was paying overtime for those positions that are vacant, just like I do the vacant ones now.

We don't run short on any day of the year.

But I would have to find a pumper now, you know, to replace that one.

I have a plan in the back of my head that I've gone over with the command staff on refurbishing maybe one of the newer, you know, in the reserve fleet.

But yeah, it's it's it's a process, and then I would like it to be you know nine personnel added, even though I kept three, you know, out of the nine that came from Pumper 11.

I don't want to cut back the rescue back to um a two-company, two-man company.

But we ran the numbers on station 11 again.

Um I believe they're still under three percent of all our call volume.

Okay, the station.

So do the the new positions that you looked at, would those be uh firefighters or are those going to be other people?

It would be rolls.

All three because you have the firefighter driver and captain, and then times three for the three shifts, so three of each, yeah, and then I'd miss the uh when I have stuff like this.

I really miss the administrative battalion chief because it has added to my workload a bunch.

Sure, I'm sure it has.

Thank you for what you're doing.

The uh safety equipment.

Do we have any need currently for safety equipment?

And if so, is that on our purview to approve this year?

We we are doing very good.

We are starting, we're gonna have to start looking at our extrication equipment replacing it.

Um I kept it in previous budgets and took it out of this year's because that was a 170,000 dollar, but that's like administrator Dingman and I kind of talked about.

I said we test them annually, and if they fail, we can't use them.

So I said, then I will have to go to the board for at least you know, replacement set of that one, and we had three sets in the budget, but that is one that's coming up that we'll have to do, but we don't skimp on equipment for our guys, they have the best trucks, the best bunker gear, and it is expensive.

They're sure.

They're wearing ten thousand dollars before they put, you know, almost with the before they put on the air pack.

That's another 10, 12,000.

Well, I think we definitely need to continue to prioritize that.

So if there is something that comes up, you know, obviously, as you promised, I would bring it before us.

I mean, we're we have a general's a general fund reserve for such a thing, and we should be prioritizing your safety equipment for sure.

And I also look forward to hearing what you propose in your couple scenarios with the pay, especially the starting pay.

I do agree with you that 43 7 is a low starting pay for recruitment.

I did kind of we have used the same scale since Chief Christensen was in here, and it has always been the same gaps in between the ranks and stuff, and I kind of shredded that and just started over at 50, it was 50,000 and change.

It was sixteen dollars and fifty cents an hour, the starting hourly rate.

Put it into my spreadsheet that calculates everything, and then it carries on the ranks, and then I also added a larger gap between the ranks because some of our guys, I mean, it's like a family.

Some of them are just so happy they don't test for promotion.

So I'm trying to motivate them by increasing the pay gap between the ranks as well because I have a captain vacancy now, we've exhausted our promotional list.

I like that.

That's great thinking.

Thank you for your leadership.

And real quick, that 50,000 is not on 2,080 hours a year.

That's that is on 2,921.

I'm sorry, 2912.

Right.

So uh at normal FTE is 20, 2,080 hours.

Your FTE is 290.

2912 is what we and the that's what they they told me a lot of your questions.

Um that includes holiday pay.

Everybody in the fire department gets all 13 holidays.

We just divide it up amongst 26 pay periods.

That is their FLSA overtime that they get.

If they don't work an extra shift, that sheet shows pretty close to what they make for the year.

And must work two jobs.

Yes.

Thank you.

Chief question.

Let's talk about money a minute.

We have the lowest I we have lowest insurance rating possible, correct?

ISO rating, which is a one, which could make our insurance rights cheap, correct?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Will these cutbacks affect that writing?

I can't guarantee that they will or won't, especially now they have totally restructured the ISO auditing.

But we're gonna look at manpower, correct?

And and the and the response time.

It's a whole lot.

The uh dispatch center is a piece of the pie, our water system is a huge piece of the pie.

It helps us that we've greatly improved our water system in the city, terms of water supply, number of hydrants, so we will gain some ground there.

We kept all our aerials where they were at that they were the optimal place for points.

But um the last conference I was at.

I've been trying to get some info from I our ISO representative because they ch they restructured how they're going to do the scoring, and even the people that worked for ISO at the conference had not been told what the new structure and the the fire station out at Chaffee.

That's my word out there.

What number is that?

Out of which one?

11.

That's eleven, and that's been cut back to three three personnel.

Yes, is it one company?

Is there a pumper station out there?

No, it's a ladder truck.

So if there's a fire back around, say providence or whatever, who's gonna respond?

It's gonna be a water tank and hose lines.

Huh?

They have a water tank on board and hose lines.

Oh, they do.

Rescue truck is the only apparatus we have that doesn't have a pump in the apparatus.

But it's not a true pumper truck, correct?

No, it's an aerial.

It actually can it has less water on board, but it's actually capable of pumping far more water because it actually has the aerials have our biggest pumps at 2,000 gallons.

So is that one truck sufficient to fight a house fire?

It is for the initial attack.

They would have to, like all ours.

Yeah, we have our procedure of laying a supply line.

But if something happened, they couldn't respond.

Who's gonna where's gonna be the quickest response over by Chaffin?

That whatever that would be sixes or tens.

So we're looking at an extra four or five minutes, don't you think?

Oh, definitely, which that could be the case with all of our stations that are single fire company stations and on you know, borders of the city, our central north side stations, it's a dead heap.

Yeah, everybody trying to get to the fire, and yes, if station six, they're a single company station.

If they're out, somebody's coming from in, you know, inside the central part of the city, station 10, station nine, they're all you know on the city border, so yeah, and single company.

I'm gonna tell my board members, I think we need to re relook at this our budget uh issue with this again.

I know our website maybe has been up, which is good.

Um, but I think we need to review the police and fire budget again.

Yeah, I think I think a couple of us have already said that, so we're agreeable.

Yeah, I mean that this is uh I mean it's just it's public safety, yeah.

That'll be the proper first sign.

Definitely, all right.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chief.

Director Crusida Gonzavis.

Chief, just one more question.

When will the new ISO ratings be released?

Uh we're they have been restructuring everything, and we don't know when the next audit will be.

Honestly, I hope it's a while because we also with this RMS change, it is a lot harder to get our data out, it's in two locations right now for a while.

Um as end of December, we officially transferred over all our reports to the new RMS, but it's taken time to build up all the other sections where we enter our training hours and stuff, and that's all stuff that they audit.

So, but we are doing the next three to five years.

Alright, thank you.

Chief, I had a quick question.

You mentioned that 40 to 50 percent tech uh fail rate.

Is that something in your time in service that you've observed is a typical fail rate?

And so is the pipeline uh of people even interested in applying just smaller, or is it the people that are applying are doing worse than uh has been typical in the past?

Combination of both.

We're used to we would have 200 plus applicants every time when I tested the list would have the final list would have 40 people on it, but um last time I looked, we had 28 completed uh applications for this year, and it ends um I forget if it's August 31st or September 30, it's August 31st, I believe.

And we used to we took applications for a 30-day window.

You had to watch for the announcement in the newspaper.

Now we do our testing, we give HR three or four weeks to recover and reset.

We open up the process or application process and leave it open all year so we can recruit, and we don't have to tell them watch for the time.

We've made it as easy as we can, but but yeah, there's a lot of uh the work ethic has changed for a lot of people.

I mean, in all honesty, it is harder to find people that want to risk their lives for 44,000 a year.

Sure.

Well, and that means that yeah, we definitely hold up uh in a place of honor and in a place of prayer and a place of appreciation.

Uh the people that do still want to uh walk down that path for us.

Uh please pass along our appreciation uh to you and your and your team, and thank you for coming here with this information and for being willing to answer our questions.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Take care.

Uh next up is uh item three, uh, which is an update regarding uh potential grant funding for the Bass Reeves legacy loop.

And I know that our director of parks recreation, Dr.

Sarah Dewster, uh has an update for us on this project.

Dr.

Deuster, yes, I'll give it a minute.

I'll go ahead and do some introductory comments, but I have a presentation up.

So this goes back to 2024 when the city initially submitted a grant through the rebuilding American infrastructure with sustainability and equity program, and they submitted it for just under 25 million dollars for Bass Reeves Legacy Loop.

The project was not awarded funding in that 2024 grant cycle, but it was designated as a project of merit, meaning it met all the criteria, had gone through the review process and was favorable to receive funding if the city went forward for the 2025 cycle, and then of course the board did it um allow did pass a resolution to allow administration to submit an application for the 2025 raise grant.

We received notification and miles.

I can't see it on mine to move.

There we go.

All right, so we did receive notification in January 10th that the project was awarded funding just under 25 million dollars.

Thank you.

And I'm gonna keep going if that's okay.

And after that notification, we I think it became a reality, and some of us met in the initial preparation of the application.

No one from engineering parks, planning, or streets now, public works were involved in that application process.

So it became we have this, we've been awarded this grant, but is the project feasible?

And through those discussions, several issues were identified in those.

So let me catch up here.

So again, we all kind of met, it was not just one meeting and done.

There were several months of discussion and what's the plan moving forward, and some of the highlighted issues with project feasibility included the impact to homeowners.

There was a large portion of the original route that did go in the backyards of residents.

And while some people may find that favorable, there are others that will not, so we have to really weigh that impact to homeowners because for parks, we've kind of been down that road before, you have a plan, but whenever you start engaging the citizens, kind of you have to pull back because that's not the most favorable option.

And then the number of railroad crossings with this initial route, there were 17 railroad crossings for us.

We've been working with the railroad for over three years now, and whenever you're trying to get permitting for 17 railroad crossings, that is a very real challenge, and it's not specific to trails.

We've seen it with the transit department and others.

We also have the acquisition costs.

So we did it's the Mill Creek trail study, we had it completed in 2016, and my concern was the acquisition costs submitted in the original application were low based on the information we had.

And then connectivity along Wheeler Avenue, you know it's a great, nice, straightforward, but really what are the places of business, the amenities, what are they connecting to there?

And kind of the goal of Bass Reeves Legacy Loop was to make those meaningful connections, and then finally the submitted project cost estimate.

You know, the grant, it was a maximum of 25 million dollars.

We submitted for that for just shy of that.

So initially, based on what we had, we thought we being those who were not involved in the application, thought the project was 25 million dollars.

So we had a transition in federal administration, and with that, the grants, federal grants via executive order, they were kind of in limbo.

We didn't know if they were gonna proceed.

But through that, the RAISE grant was rebranded and transformed into the better utilizing investments to leverage development or the build grant.

And in July, we received notification from local federal highway administration that they were ready to schedule a kickoff meeting to proceed with the grant.

So during the time from January 10th through July 22nd of 2025, we had no idea we were still going to receive the grant, and also following this notification, there have been other cities in Arkansas and across the nation who have received this and kind of discussing with them, you know, they accepted the grant and they're in various phases, but something they somewhat did not really take account for is one of the terms of the grant is you start it, you accept it, you finish it no matter what.

So the way we looked at that term was you know, is this feasible?

Is the project cost that was submitted in the application?

Is that accurate?

Because had we not had we stopped right here, probably in August, that in 2025, our recommendation would have 100% been to come before the board and say, hey, we need to forgo this almost 25 million dollars in grant funds.

However, we recognize the potential ramifications that we'll have to other potential federal and state funding.

So we didn't want to have to present that to the board.

We wanted to kind of take a step back and see can we find a solution that accomplishes primarily the same objectives of Bass Reeves Legacy Loop, and kind of satisfies those goals, but in a cost-effective manner, and something that we feel comfortable providing to you for consideration that we can afford.

So in through that, this is well beyond what our staff is capable of submitting a revised scope.

So we engaged with half associated half associates, they have an excellent grants division, and they assisted us with submitting a revised scope.

So why a revised scope?

I already talked about the feasibility, the unaccounted for costs, significant cost estimate increases, and of course the new priorities in the federal administration.

And again, like I noted earlier with other municipalities, you start it, you accept the funds, you have to finish it no matter the costs.

So kind of highlighting some of the unaccounted for cost in the grant application, site preparation, and a contingency acquisition consulting services.

We are not, we cannot do that in-house.

We don't have that in our department whatsoever, and I think you know, engineering utilities does have that, but they are focused on doing that for their projects.

And then environmental studies and permitting, those are required as part of the grant.

And of course, grant administration, it's not that we aren't capable of performing the task, it's we simply do not have time.

And the last thing I want to do is us accept these awards and forget to cross and cross a T or Dod and I.

So we 100% have to have this.

If I didn't, if I thought we could handle it in-house, I would do so, but we simply cannot.

We don't have the capacity to do it.

And then also the price escalation factor.

You know, usually with federal grants, it takes you anywhere from 9 to 18 months to get a grant agreement.

We saw that we submitted the application in 2024.

We just received a draft grant agreement in August of last year.

So you have to account for that because prices change month to month sometimes.

So, and just to highlight some of the significant cost estimate increases from the original opinion and probable cost in the grant application, utility relocations, the RRFB and Hawk signals, railroad crossings, trail lighting, concrete greenway and amenities, and the Rogers Avenue tunnel, those costs just alone with what we know in today's dollars, increase the project by about 8.4 million dollars.

And then this is a comparison.

I know it's kind of gonna be maybe a sticker shock, but the original application had a project estimate of just under 25 million when we went engineering parks planning and streets, which is now public works got together and we contracted with half associates grant team and had an engineer evaluate this.

The actual revised estimate and what we know today came almost 41 million dollars.

So if we were to proceed with this, we'd be looking at where are we gonna find 15.7 million dollars, and I think we all know the budget, we we don't have that, but again, looking at the potential ramifications of saying, hey, I know we applied, but we don't want it anymore.

How that could play into any federal state funding or cooperation from them, we wanted to proceed with a revised scope.

So I know on this, it is very small and it kind of gives you the route.

You have an 11 by 17 in front of your seat up there that you can look at, but the revised scope essentially we've been calling it it creates a spine down Old Greenwood Road that connects the north side and the south side, and I know it's not a loop, and we thought about changing the name, but local FHWA said no, that'll just convolute the process, keep it the same as is.

So that's why the title is still the same.

But this, we feel comfortable with this, kind of going through the opinion of probable cost, it's a little over 29 million dollars.

Again, going back to that caveat, you start it, you finish it no matter what.

Where are we gonna come up with the additional $4 million?

So thankfully the citizens of Fort Smith beginning in 2012 and renewing in 2022, they decided to invest in parks and recreation through the passage of the 1-8th cents sales and use tax, as we all know.

Those send before me, but just a reminder: this can only be used to fund parks and recreation capital projects.

It can't be diverted to anywhere else.

So we do have that money to comp to cover that additional almost 4.4 million dollars already allocated in our CIP for Trells and Greenways, and again, this money cannot be used for anything else other than parks and recreation purposes.

So we did that.

We found a funding source without having to come back and say, hey, we need almost 15.7 million dollars if we want to proceed with this.

So that's kind of where we are right now, and what we've done, we submitted the initial revised grant draft grant agreement in December, received comments in April, and we've kind of been going back and forth right now.

And that's where we are, but we're kind of at the point to where we have to have a consensus, a general direction from the board on whether or not to proceed with this, and just to kind of quickly give a route comparison.

The trail width, it stays the same at 10 foot.

The length it does decrease by about 3.3 miles, but whenever you're looking at going from almost 41 million dollar project to a 29 million dollar one, you're gonna have to reduce the number of paved miles, and then of course, sidewalks and eliminating the tunnel across Rogers Avenue.

You know, it is a good idea.

Is it feasible?

Likely not, but it's something we can explore in the future, but good proceeding with this allows us to capitalize on almost 25 million dollars of funds that we otherwise would not have.

And then with this new revised scope, there are zero railroad crossings, and something that's important that our trails and greenways community and friends of recreational trails have really advocated and pushed for is a continuous and connected trails and greenways system.

So the original original route connected 14.6 miles of trails and greenways.

What we're presenting to you for consideration connects 30.2 miles of trails and greenways.

So it goes all the way to Greg Smith River Trail to Bing Garren and all of Chaffee Crossing.

So it's really, I mean, like we've said, like I said earlier, and we've been calling it it's a spine in the center of the city, connecting the north and the south.

And with this, I usually am not this blunt, but we are at a point where tonight I have to leave with direction from the board on whether or not we want to proceed with our revised scope, or if we want to say no, let's kill the project and notify FHWA that we do not wish to receive the grant funds.

And with that, if the board is in favor of giving me the direction to proceed with this revised scope, this does not commit the city to accepting the grant.

We are not at that point right now.

We've been awarded it, but we do not have a draft grant, we do not have a final grant agreement.

So what I need to do, and why we needed to do this tonight, is I need to start the procurement process for professional services.

We can't utilize what we typically use with the city on the statement of qualifications on file in the city clerk's office.

We have to do informal advertisement, assemble and evaluation committee, and review those, and that takes six to eight weeks, and you know, we feel confident local FHWA.

They are, I think they are accepting of our proposed revised scope, kind of the communication and the feedback we've received from uh federal headquarters to local.

I think they are also understanding of the situation and I feel good about it.

But again, the direction you give me, I just need to know where to go.

It does not commit us to accepting the grant whatsoever, it does not do any of that because when we get to that point, we will bring an item to the board for consideration on formal acceptance of the grant.

I just need to get going on the procurement process.

So with that, I'll take any questions, and if I'm unable to answer it, we do have other individuals here.

Thank you, Jared.

Uh, sir, can you go back to the proposed uh not the one the the new one the the new proposal?

So you're gonna go down Old Greenwood Road to the pavilion.

That's okay.

I was trying to figure out where you stop it at.

She's stopping at the pavilion.

Um my only question really was what are you gonna do about Rogers Avenue?

You already talked about no tunnel, probably crosswalk.

I I would actually ask you to explore the option of uh overhead.

Um that's my preference, too.

I think some cities are doing that.

I've seen a lot of that when I was in Kansas City, they do spirals up over and spirals down as a way.

I've seen that done in many other cities.

So I I'd ask you to look at that, maybe work with R Dot if that's an option.

Maybe they can help us there.

Uh from my standpoint, you know, to your point, if we don't do it, it could pack other grants.

So I think you found a funding source is what's with the sales and use taxes where it's where I was gonna go.

So with the new proposal, I think I'm good with moving forward.

So thank you.

Dr.

Martin, so um on on this, is it's going down Old Greenwood.

Is this gonna be off the road?

Yes, sir.

So, like, is it going through wooded areas and things like that?

So, right now this is very much a concept, okay.

As part of the grant requirements, you have to go through environmental and permitting processes.

So until we go through that, we are not going to know the exact route.

Okay, but the goal is for it to be off-road.

Okay, 10 foot wide.

I mean, it it it I mean sidewalks are great, but when you're going down old Greenwood and there's it's loud, um you got to you kind of gotta be on guard.

Um, I prefer that Sarah, you know, when we've talked about streets and it costing a million bucks a mile for a street.

How is this so expensive for a trail?

That's the cost of concrete excavation, subgrade, site prep.

It unfortunately it is our reality.

I mean, this is crazy.

Yeah, agreed.

I mean, it should be significantly less than that.

Um I mean, I so you those dollars from the parks CIP, this the one eight cent sales tax.

Those are already allocated to Trails and Greenways.

What what would not be, what trails would not be done?

None.

So with the revised scope, we are picking up where May branch phase two begins, which is at MLK and follows the old railroad.

Okay, and connects to Creekmore.

Okay.

So rather than us funding that solely by ourselves, we're looking to incorporate that into the grant to leverage more dollars.

Okay, yeah.

Um man, that's expensive.

But if we've got you know, we we got the dollars, um, the federal dollars.

Uh I'm I'm I'm for moving forward with with whatever your the next phase is, but dang, 25 million dollars.

All right, thanks.

Thank you, Vice Mayor.

Um, thank you, Dr.

Duchess.

I just have questions in the sense of the dots the over here, those are completed.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Like the Chaffee Cross.

Okay.

And then like over on Ginny Lynn Road in front of the old uh what used to be the old whirlpool building, it's now warehouses.

There's a trail over there that follows Jinny Lynn Road for or at least a segment.

Yes, it is ours.

Okay.

Um, are there other segments like that in the city that we're not seeing here?

I know that one's not.

There, are we in we intentionally limited what is shown on this map because if we looked at everything being connected, you wouldn't be able to see what we're trying to propose.

So, yes, there are more, and also, you know, the public works department does an excellent job with their sidewalks program, so there can be spurs off of this as well.

Yeah, and then I guess I'm still struggling to understand how we'll get the 10-foot on Old Greenwood Road.

I feel like we're going through a busy, that spines at a busy section of the city.

I mean, do you have any more comments?

Like, what does that look like?

I mean, is it is it some sort of expanded sidewalk then or it you know that will come out whenever we initiate the design, but we do feel comfortable we can get there.

Maybe some portions which it occurs in other trails, we have to condense down to eight foot, or maybe we do have to convert to a sidewalk, but the majority of their out we do feel comfortable with this, because trust me, if I didn't, I definitely would not be standing before you tonight.

Yeah, no, sure.

I I think the um and you said construction is 2030 start.

We initially we said 2030 and kind of reviewing the initial going back and forth with FHWA on the draft grant agreement.

Now we're looking at late 2029, hopefully, with completion in 2032.

And I know that sounds like a long way away, but environmental alone and permitting will take probably 15 months, and then the design, so I know we're kind of I'm pushing you for a direction now, but it's because planning and everything we have to do as part of this process takes a significant amount of time.

And are you talking about the sales tax where you found the park sales tax, and I'm very familiar that that's used for capital improvements for parks usage?

Yes, sir.

Is that money that you already have today in the fund, or is that counting potential future funding?

Future funding, and our funding, you know, it does sunset in 2030, however, we already have that.

I think I actually have six million allocated for trails and greenways through that, through not just this year, next year, but from now until 2030, enough to cover this, and if there is cost overrun, we do kind of have a cushion.

That's what I was about to ask.

Let's say just say the four million number is seven million.

Is that going to hurt the park CIP?

Or is the park CIP have enough cash to float that?

We something I think all the engineers I work with know that I want worst case scenario up front.

Yeah.

So the 29 million dollar figure we you have in front of you that I presented, that includes a 20% design contingency in addition to a 10% price escalation.

So we do feel very comfortable with that.

However, things happen that are unpredictable and it could change, but I really do feel comfortable that we can complete this with the sales tax dollars in our one eight cent sales and use tax.

Yeah.

Um I wish it was a loop.

Uh that's kind of where I'm at.

I mean, uh I do see uh I guess the need to connectivity it.

I guess my thought is just thinking this through.

I I would love to even see eventually the the other master plan of things that we're looking to do to try to communicate because obviously the goal of this, hopefully, is I think of like Mr.

Postrick here, that uh this is his mode of transportation around the city, and uh I hope that something like this is checking boxes for people that are using this mode of transportation and that it's safe for them.

I know several friends of mine that have talked about I've got two friends that do street biking and uh both have had accidents with with vehicles, and so um I see this as a an amenity, and I think we need to have this mode of transportation available in our community.

The the game I would say is yes, but I would think moving expeditiously wherever possible is advantageous because though you say we have that cushion there, I have a feeling we'll be having to tap that, and I would hope that the park CIP will manage that to accommodate that because that's the concern I have is the is the cost of over increasing over time, especially with the delay.

Yes.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mayor.

Sir, you know, for years y'all needed a couple of dump pickup trucks.

No money.

I know this is for capital improvement on operations, but you know, it seems mysteriously that money just pops up.

This does not pop up, it's been allocated in all of our CIP's transparent.

I understand that, but you know, we're where's it I mean, we've cut the place, we cut the fire, we cut the budget.

I don't have anything against the trails.

I don't think I'm I'm not supporting this right now.

Maybe down the road, but why so why wouldn't that money used for towards the water slides?

That's a capital improvement.

I did not have that money, and the park commission was vehemently opposed to that.

So we're spending money we don't have, correct?

No, we're not spending money we don't know.

But you have four million dollars in the bank right now.

This money that I'm saying let's leverage with the $25 million we're getting from the federal government, cannot you be used for police or fire, it cannot be used for the funding.

I understand why.

I understand so we're not requesting any money from the general fund at all.

It can only be used for this purpose.

I understand that, but you know, this is this is you know what this reminds me of, reminds me of the water slides.

Only 2.1 million dollars.

That's exact to that point.

And then it tends to being $8 million.

I'm afraid this is what this is gonna happen here.

To that point, that's exactly why I went with a revised scope.

Because had we accepted this, we'd be 40 million dollars, 41 million dollars coming up with 15.7.

So that's crazy.

That's why we went with a revised scope.

To prevent that.

I don't know, I don't have that against this project, but I'm gonna have I'm having trouble, you know, because what's gonna happen?

We're gonna get going and then boy, we need another four million dollars.

We're in the five million dollars.

You know, I I that's uh I'm I mean, we ought to.

You all have any ideas on this?

If we can't do this for 25 million bucks, we ought to sack it up and be done with it.

I mean that's what yeah, I I'm just what I'm saying is it can't get any more than that.

I mean, it's just you can't go any more.

Yeah, but Neil, but this is the same thing.

We're gonna start those slides, and if the and if the cost escalates, we're stuck.

We're gonna have to put the uh I mean, isn't the one that gave us the estimate on the slides though?

Anytime Sarah's come to us with an estimate on something, she's been pretty much dead on that.

Yeah, Sarah's done a great job.

I have nothing against you at all.

Hold on a second.

Hold on a second, Director Martin.

Director could say, you have anything else?

No, sir, go ahead.

Yeah, I believe uh Neil very quickly, and then Director Settle was in the case.

Let's let's say George's scenario proves true and and we get to a point and and we've we're at twenty-five million dollars and we got two more miles to go.

Mm-hmm.

There's can't do it.

We we got there's no additional dollars coming.

We just stop it at that point.

You will unless the federal government waivers, you will pay that money back because you are in default of your grant agreement.

Yeah, what is that?

And that's why it means you did not meet the terms of your grant agreement.

So if you go over, if you don't get it done uh in time or under and that's why we have that it's essentially a 30% contingency built into that project.

So you're you're you're you would you'd be done.

You would you're yeah, you're done.

I would it's a risk.

I would interject myself here because it's where the conversation is flown flowed.

Uh I would appreciate Sarah, and I think we all would if you would send us the language and specifically highlight the you start it, you finish it, no matter what clause language, because I would say that uh I mean, first of all, that's a problem for the year, you know, 2030, 2031, 2032.

First of all, but how long you take to finish something who whose definition of finished, I mean like I I would very much appreciate the opportunity to review this language because you could reach a point to your point, Director Martin, where you are a mile or two shy, and you could just say we're not finished, and we're waiting to finish it until we have the funding to finish it.

Who's I mean, what what is someone gonna trundle down here from the Department of Justice and go, Oh, you you said you were gonna finish and you're not finished, and you said in the year 2026 that you I mean, that's somewhat silly and somewhat alarmist in my opinion, and so I really appreciate the opportunity to review that language.

Uh Director Settle.

Uh thank you.

Um, north of Rogers Avenue, are you gonna be using the old railroad trail?

Yes, sir.

And so even south of Rogers Avenue by Agnew Brick and Kelly Ballfields, we got the old part of that.

We still got the old trail or railroad trail, correct?

That is our plan, you know, it might change when we get in there, but yes.

Okay.

Um, ask a question back to what they're talking about.

If you proposed a shorter, I don't know, go to Southside, to Gary Road, say we just go to Gary, and then we get that done, we have money left over, then we can continue on.

Would that complete the project per se?

We would that would be a discussion with FHWA and I will say, kind of to Director Rigo's point, there are firm deadlines that we have to hit.

The main one is funds have to be obligated by September 30th, 2030.

So we do need to start at least preparing for that, but I know that we are not the only city sharing the same concerns now, and I think Chris Hoover, you know, he has excellent relationships with government relations, and I think there is a push because there's multiple cities in Arkansas that we can assist with that, but I would not hold my breath that the federal government would be lenient on dates.

And you talked about the very beginning, a change in administration now in 2028, 2029, there'll be another change, obviously.

Yes.

Is there any chance that that change could impact this?

Even if we have an agreement with uh the raise grant?

Could there be an impact if an administration changes on this?

I honestly I do not know that answer.

Okay, but I would assume if you have an agreement, the answer is no, but I don't want to say for sure.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Director Christina Kitsavis and Director Kemp.

So Sarah, the the name, as far as um needing to not cause any further delays, you can't change the name on paper.

But what I don't want is for us to be putting out Bass Reeves Legacy Loop to the public, and the public think they're getting a loop, and we've got Bass Reeves Legacy Line.

So as far as our communications to the public, do we have to publish it as loop?

I think for now, yes, but let us get the draft grant agreement to present to you all for consideration and get that because the last thing I want to do is say, oh, let's call it line, because that was our proposal actually, and that hurt us in any way.

So for now, stick with the name, but again, when this is completed, it will go for through the formal naming process that's required.

Okay, I just I don't want information out to the public where they then feel like they've they've been deceived, um, as far as loop versus line.

That was my that was my concern.

Thank you.

Director Kemp.

Thank you, Vice Mayor.

And I actually agree with Director Christina Savas.

I really think a line sounds way better than a loop.

We tried.

I mean, I really I mean, will that really detriment us from getting the funds?

I mean, I if it's not, I I I really would push there.

Another thought I have would be the route green here at the bottom um future.

The uh, okay, so Bass Reef legacy loop concessional okay.

I'm trying to process this.

So that's this green line down here by heading uh south from Garrin Road is not necessarily a part of this 29th.

It is not that will be constructed by R Dot.

Okay.

Okay.

Never mind.

Then I would draw my question.

Thank you.

Yes.

Well, so we don't where's the money gonna come to develop acne brick park?

We don't have a plan, we don't know.

This album is not about the acne brick part.

Well, I understand that.

But uh let me ask you a question.

Doesn't have anything to do with this.

But say if Miss Jones wants to take her kids to the park and she wants to put a gun in her purse, is that legal?

Yes, it is.

It is legal.

Yes, there used to be no signs that says no firearms member.

The law changed.

So it's okay.

Yes, thank you.

Uh the comment uh that I will add uh to the conversation is obviously there's more information to come, which you've made very clear.

There are juncture points, you know, a consensus which appears to be present for you to proceed uh here tonight does not you know uh irredeemably uh lock us into something.

But I would say conceptually to me, I mean to share my opinion, in order to return 25 million tax dollars that we have sent to Washington DC over the years back into our community to be activated.

Uh the requirement that you're requesting is the ability to spend you know uh four between four and five million dollars that you already have for the purposes of trail construction, which is what this is.

So that seems to me to be very straightforward.

You know, obviously there are further questions and pieces of information we need to have before we fully and finally proceed.

But uh as for me here tonight, I would like us to move on to the next junctures of the process.

Thank you.

Any other uh director good?

Dr.

Deuce, I just want to thank you for your presentation.

Thank you for taking a step back and reviewing this and bringing us the revised presentation.

Uh the rebia scope.

Um I too, a little disappointed that it's not gonna be a loop, but um I'm very thankful that we're still um you know eligible for that for that um grant, and I believe a question was asked about um administration change.

Doctor uh Director Settle asked if it was a possibility that uh the grant status might change.

And I believe uh I saw Mr.

Um Chris Hooper in the back.

Um could you answer that question?

Because you have a very good working relationship uh with governmental affairs.

What's the possibility of that change?

Good evening.

Well, I would say that anytime you have a new administration, anything can change.

I know when uh the Trump administration came in in January of 2025, you know, there was a six, seven month period where there were no grants being opened.

Everything that was out there was being reviewed, every grant program.

And uh they also enacted many uh different levels of review within the departments as well.

And so um, you know, and primarily an example of this is uh with the RAISE program, um, you know, when when we applied, and and I will say the city has received funds in the past from this program.

Um in I believe it was in 2018, we received 8.5 million dollars for the rehabilitation of the uh uh drawbridge across the Arkansas River, and that was funded through this grant program.

Uh and that was when it was still the Tiger program, the transportation investments generating economic recovery grant program.

Um but in regards to this program, uh, you know, when the the Biden administration had this out, they changed the name to raise the rebuilding American infrastructure with sustainability and equity.

Their focus was equity, sustainability office, um, a strong focus on underserved communities, um, emphasize uh equity and climate outcomes, um, active transportation, uh reduction of greenhouse uh gases and all that.

And the Trump administration, they came in, they now changed the program to where it focuses on economic development and transportation performance.

Um you know, uh think think of big freight uh infrastructure projects is what this program now focuses on.

So can administration come in and do a change in a review?

Yes.

Okay.

I know that was a long-winded answer, but trying to be as thorough as possible.

Well, thank you so much for that response.

You're welcome.

And then I will say, um, you know, there was a question about the batteries, I guess, the naming of it.

Um, you know, if if it's the if the the if FHWA and the Department of Transportation doesn't want us to change the name, we can always say, well, this is going to be a part of um the master trails and green range plan, and eventually we can have connectors in the future that build that in.

Yes.

And then also, um, you know, there was language in the notice of funding opportunity that says uh that you know you can get multiple raise grant awards.

So if it the board decides, okay, we want to get through this project, and then uh we want to do some other you know uh project that um builds upon it and utilizes federal funding and you know you puzzle piece things together, we can do that.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr.

Hoover.

Thank you, Dr.

Dewster.

If there are no additional questions or comments, we'll move on to item four, which is a discussion regarding a senior citizen rate freeze or discount on regular household water utility rates.

And I believe Mr.

Dingman, you have some material to present to us.

Sure.

Thank you.

Um this discussion was requested by the board to evaluate options for senior citizen discounts or water for water utility services.

Neighboring cities have introduced rate freezes for water account holders age 65 or more on their primary residential utility accounts, and the board wish to consider a similar offering from for in Fort Smith.

Uh staff evaluated two primary options, the first being commitment to freeze water rates for senior citizen account holders at 2026 levels for the base rate and first usage tier if and when any future water rate adjustments are considered.

This option would have a virtually no immediate impact on current revenue levels as no change would be implemented until a future rate adjustment is adopted.

The second option established a fixed percentage, such as a 10% discount off of regular water usage, first tier rate for senior citizen account holders.

There was some contemplation of introducing this to take effect immediately, but uh you know that that type of uh adjustment wouldn't need to be made until future rates are adopted either.

Uh so in that if we implemented it immediately, there would have an impact on uh on projected revenues that uh we are counting on for uh certain um certain things in terms of uh operations and capital dollars.

But uh but there again, if we're talking about uh either fixing the 2026 rate schedule for seniors or a 10% uh discount for seniors upon adoption of a rate schedule in the future, then either can be accommodated without uh adjusting any revenue uh projections that we currently have.

So with and I think I think in my uh staff staff report and memo, I I uh had some discussion about if we uh reduced uh did an action immediately to reduce revenue projections.

We might try to make that up uh through other rate classes, but uh in for this discussion, I think I'd would rather recommend and focus on uh what we do uh in the as we do any future rate adoptions for for this rate freeze or senior discount, and with that I'll turn it to the uh board for discussion and we'll uh see where the questions go.

Alright, I ask my colleagues, do we have any comments, questions, or motions to make?

Uh Director Good.

Yeah, I'll start.

Um I'm not certain how I really want to communicate my thoughts, but of course, you know, we want to help our citizens there, especially those that are elderly and those people that are hurting, you know, there's a lot of people just not making it, you know.

So helping the elderly is is absolutely a wonderful thing.

It's a great idea for us to even suggest to do.

But my question is, you know, revenues.

How will this cut into the revenues?

And if it actually cuts into the revenues, who makes up the difference?

And my my example is if if just say I was a 25-year-old man and only made you know minimum wage, you know, married or not, whatever, but I don't qualify for project concern, but I'm not 65, I can be 20 to 64 and and fall in that gap, am I one of those people that in that middle class that subsidizes this rate discount?

I mean, how do we make how do we actually make up for the lost revenues unless we increase revenues in the future, which still affects the middle class?

This is not being able to um receive project concern benefits.

Sure, and I would offer if if we regardless of which approach we take to it, I think if we if we're considering a rate freeze for that um 65 and over folks, and we propose that along with the matrix of rate schedules across our customer classes when we do a a rate review to recommend a rate adjustment.

Uh if we know that going in that we have a certain number of uh, you know, we've we've used 16% of our population because that's the popular uh census data that says 16% of our population is 65 or older.

But if we start a program where we uh maybe invite folks to opt in to that program as we work towards our ramp up whatever an adjustment may need to be, then we have an idea of how many folks would be opting in, at least the start of it, and get an idea to um work with our uh rate evaluators to recommend a rate structure that accommodates you know this sort of discount for seniors, but then distributes the needed revenue across the other rate classes.

Okay, so we're talking rate classes.

Well, and that means residential rates, regular residential rate holders, but also means industrial and commercial rate holders and wholesale customers as well.

You know, my other concern, my other it's not even a concern, it's just a thought, you know.

Again, helping seniors is a is uh is a wonderful thing, but helping those in need is is almost a requirement um for a caring community like what we have that is so full of nonprofits and volunteers that do so much for you know those in need.

So my question is so we discount those folks that are 65 and older whether they need the discount or not say that again say I make a hundred thousand dollars a year and I don't and I'm 65 66 I don't need a discount I'm set so I'm gonna get the discount and put the burden on someone else's back that that's kind of the thinking that I'm doing with right now I mean we always talk about covering our cost and paying our fair share is how do how do we look at this how do we move forward with that without asking these questions no I think that I think that's fair I think the you know because this is an age based only uh criteria you know our project concern program does carry a uh a fairly good qualifier that can spread I mean the the first scenario you addressed with uh you know mid-20s person minimum wage you know make making a living I think they would qualify for project concern I mean I think we have a 200% of the poverty level is what our current threshold is for qualifying for project concern there are a probably a large number of folks in town that do qualify for it that are not enrolled you're right there well I think we have what two maybe two thirds of the population that qualify but aren't even applying or or or taking advantage of that just say that everyone that did qualify and applied we would be in a world of hurt because we're subsidizing that many more folks right now where we are right now we're okay but just imagine if another third of the community that that qualified were to get on project concern which is a discount based you know funding that is that so again my I guess the the bottom line is how do we cover cost without impacting someone unjustly director martin yeah I agree with you Director Good um you know we've got we do have project concern I think we got the figures today is 35 dollars I think a month is the average savings across water sewer and sanitation and so you know doing doing something based on on age I don't know if that's necessarily I mean I want to take care of our our seniors but you're right there if somebody is sitting on a good chunk of chunk of dollars I don't necessarily need the the subsidy and and you know at what point do we do we say maybe young families under 25 of two kids they get it you know you could you could you can start getting it you can start getting into uh many different scenarios here I I think we we continue to to push project concern and income based uh scenario that that hits all age classes and I think that would be the way we we we move forward with this so I'm I don't think having an age-based is the way to go um I think the income based is is what we've got is sufficient at this point.

Director Kemp, thank you vice mayor uh listening to us and just thinking through this as well uh ahead of this would it be better to maybe consider a senior rate plan strategy so that uh we would say like it's being proposed for our coma the base cost plus a small percentage of ROI and not asking them to muscle up on their back the the yoke of what might need to be carried forward but we're not subsidizing because we're capturing our cost but we're just not getting um we're not hitting that that age demographic with a structural fee that needs a big ROI attached to it but we're saying here's our base cost plus this ROI and we're not asking seniors any more than that would that save money for seniors that's a question for you Jeff Tony yeah I think that's uh that evaluation um it depends on the cost of providing that service, which I'm not certain that we are covering uh at this point in terms of our cost of operations, and we certainly aren't covering it when it comes to uh cost of uh debt issuance for capital, you know, significant capital projects that are facing us on the water system.

Um, you know, we we don't have a uh, we don't have a capital investment program for through issuing water through revenue bonds or something like that that is large enough at this point to sustain the capital projects that we need.

And so I would be hesitant to say that we are you know offering that we have capacity to offer discounts at this point.

But we do know our base cost, don't we not?

I mean, what a CCF cost us, better.

We do.

I mean, yes, yes, but in terms of um covering operations is a significant uh effort that we put into in 2024 when we uh had our last rate adjustment, but we did not build anything into that rate adjustment for uh issuing debt or covering large capital cost for the improvements that we know that we need to make.

I guess I'd listen to you.

I would be curious for the administration to figure out what is the capital structure improvement cost divvyed out among uh the users for the water utility so that we can know that number.

That would be for I think otherwise it's hard to look at this and consider this and find a way to actualize savings.

We know we know project concern is there, we know it's 200% of the poverty level, but I think to the spirit of Director George Gosavis' proposal was that we would in future rate increases not be overburdening senior adults.

Is that that was the part of it?

So I think some sort of senior rate plan strategy might be something that we should maybe look at and consider so that as we look at these rates, we are factoring in those that are elderly, and we're not asking them to be overburdened uh in the proportion of what they carry.

I mean, the taxes do that.

I mean, as they go down to uh the lowering their income.

I mean, we we depend less and less on them to fund that because there's a workforce taking care of it.

But I just wonder if that's a better approach at this versus some hard number discount, but but more of a strategy to say no matter what's in the future of Fort Smith, we're we're not going to take advantage of the elderly.

Sure, absolutely.

And you know, also that we you know we struggled to adopt a uh multi-year uh capital improvement program for water projects, because specifically because we couldn't identify the funding needed for those projects to happen in years three through ten, essentially.

And so, you know, we we do have a charge then to identify how how many dollars we need for these water, you know, water transmission line improvements, uh water plant upgrades, things like this that we know need to be in that 10-year plan, and we need to find funding for those, and so to find funding for those, we look at the water and sewer revenue bonds of how many dollars are needed on a weight structure to fund both operations and cover our capital costs for investing in infrastructure.

And those are those are challenges that we have not met yet.

Those are challenges that we are facing eminently, and so you know, our operating costs we have a pretty good handle on, we think we don't have a good handle on how we fund capital projects.

Do we and this is it's connected to this, so I'm not wanting to digress hard, but is there plans for administration to bring back before us uh a capital investment in water meters so that we can get Matt Meeker and the public works department as they're able to now have been caught up, they could go and fix some of these water, especially anything three inch lines and greater.

I mean, are we are we bringing forward some plans?

Yeah, I mean in terms of what we'll be able to build into our operating budget for one, because we do have a um dollar figure for replacement, regular replacement of water meters, but you know, in terms of a you know more significant investment.

I mean, we're talking about capital dollars, and so if we look to make a specific capital investment in water meter replacement, we just need the hardware.

We do have the we do have the staff, we do have the capability to change a significant number of water meters in in the in the city over the course of a year.

And so, I mean, to the tune up tune of eight to ten thousand meters a year that our staff believes they could change out if they had the meters, and so um that investment, you know, and we're looking at the two hundred and sixty a meter range, two hundred sixty dollars a meter range.

Um, so that's it's pretty significant yeah and we're talking about the the ten million dollars that we submitted for um congressional project funding uh that that we did not get awarded but that ten million dollars would have replaced all almost all of the meters in town uh over the course of a of a few years and so that that's the type of project that we need to consider because our our water meter I mean even our even our we all know this even our newer water meters are failing our older water meters are have held up but they are they are failing and so I mean how many meters will public works replace this year on a high level look I mean they're looking at five thousand three thousand they don't we don't have the dollars to buy all of those meters and so we are transitioning the the water leak teams they they do have some work to do on uh lead and copper uh verification type of responsibilities that we need to do but then that team will start moving towards uh what uh meter replacement and the as as we can afford to buy meters for them to to put in the ground we will do it I mean what a great use of of money I I think we should consider giving him the ability to to put in six thousand meters I mean I would like to see something like that brought forward by administration.

Yeah and work that into an overall capital plan that that incorporates those meters and other larger projects that we know that we need to do Director George Kitsabus and then director Christina Kitsabas.

Uh Jeff you know um presume use rights we're we're not you know we're not I mean say the say the bill runs sixty bucks a month and they freeze it at 60 bucks a month how much do you think that would cost they would go over that I mean what do what are you looking at to say that we would be losing money on this I'm not sure I understand your question.

Well I mean they're gonna pay 60 bucks a month for us and say frozen right what where are you where are you getting figures that we're then whether we're not going to make any money off this I mean we're where's the where if we have a if we have a a pool of rate payers and then all of them are contributing essentially right and then if we identify a segment of that set of rate payers that then has to pay less somebody else has to make up the difference for in terms of they're not having to pay less they're just playing their average what they're normally using.

Right but more not giving them a discount.

Right but when we when we talk about this would only come into into play when we did future rate adjustments we we will need to do rate adjustments in the future to accommodate capital programs and things like that and so that's where that's where their savings then get their their first tier usage if they stay within their first tier they likely won't see any any increase if say if we adopt a rate freeze for their first tier yeah if they stay within that first tier they won't see an increase but everybody else will I I I mean I they the we have to do something for the senior citizens you know what do y'all think about not paying property taxes after 65 on your house don't you think people deserve that own something I feel like we're gonna do something let's do it across the board.

Yeah that's where I was saying if we could provide rebates back to people and and potentially that would lead us to property tax reduction of anything that the city is given back to the people property monetarily.

The only thing I can remember years ago we got we've got a dollar discount on trial sanitization right gossip was uh administrator I can't think of anything else.

Jared there's five mils the general fund that the city procures every October that's that's something we could consider doing I mean I'm just yeah using that as example tool it's just Christina could say this I feel like the subtext of what I'm hearing here a lot is rate increases coming would that be accurate Jeff rate adjustment I mean I'm hearing a lot of that kind of carefully what worded is that coming a presentation for rate increases.

Not not so much a presentation, but we certainly need to have a discussion of how we approach this because you know we have a we have a rate study that was done in twenty three and twenty-four um that uh made some recommendations.

We adopted part of those recommendations um but you know now we're two or three years later we need to revisit that and update it and show where that needs to be considering the capital projects that we've identified.

I mean and I know that we we identified a range of dollars for capital projects and I'm not talking about a you know adopting the holistic whole scale list of projects for that but we we certainly need to identify at least the next few years of capital projects that we need to that we need know that we need to do well the capital projects you're talking about replacing all the meters the last time we replaced all the meters we still haven't made the money back that we spent so why is that so critical I mean if we're if it's just a losing deal why are we raising rates to rush into that.

Well that that meter program failed for a lot of reasons and the one of the reasons is it didn't get completed.

How many meters were replaced last year?

I do not know that.

Because we keep what about 1700 in stock at any given time you were saying we don't have the equipment we have the manpower but not the equipment but we do have a I'm not talking about the equipment I'm talking about the actual meters.

Right and I'm saying we have meters in stock I've seen I've seen the audit of the inventory it's about and when you look at it when I saw the audit given it's been a few years ago you can look at the age and some of those meters have been there quite some time they haven't been replaced and and they're there available to be replaced.

We we are we do maintain a stock of meters I don't know the 1700 but we do maintain a stock of meters for for new development and change outside things of that nature but I'm talking you know to where we have we we will always need to maintain that sort of stock but in order to change out the 36 to 3800 meters that are already out there we need to invest in that.

Okay so what I would like is I would like to know how many meters do we have in stock and how many were switched out for 23 24 25 thank you.

Okay the the questioner observation um observation that I had uh about the proposal I mean the concept in front of us to freeze uh rates at the 2026 levels if you're 65 or when you turn 65 the the challenge that I have with that and why I don't support that is because I don't think it's anything to do with you know trying to talk around a rate increase or anything like that.

It's I'm 39 years old today and I think here's where the math and the structure does become hard I'm 39 years old today sometime between today and me turning 65 my rates are going to change in the city of Fort Smith and so there will be 25 years of my life where at some point during that 25 years the rates will change and they will adjust upwards.

No one knows how many times but it's it's untrue to tell you there won't be adjustments in that period given the infrastructure needs that we have and 25 years a long time.

So if I'm counted or or people try to budget and look at things based on here's a user who for 25 years was in the system and he pays this and this and this and this and then when he turns 65 he gets to go back to a rate that was in place 25 years ago I think that becomes a logistical challenge to manage and multiply me by 30 40 thousand customers because anybody under the age of 65 presently will eventually if they stay with us on this good earth they will arrive at 65 and so there will be some difference that will then have to be rolled back I it just does not uh doesn't mean that there's not ideas out there, and people have talked about those tonight that uh could be done to to help out the the folks in need uh of a senior age who are genuinely in need um you know, the 10% discount, project kits earned, senior rate structures.

I just personally um think that there are feasibility challenges with the freezing it at the 2026 level for all time and you get that once you hit the age of sixty-five.

I think that's logistically challenging.

No, I certainly agree with that.

And I and even if that even if the um if the motion was to move forward with a rate freeze of the 26 levels, I think that at some point in the future, as you do future rate studies and such, you have to they would the board and such in place at that time would have to consider a fair adjustment to that from the 26th rate to maybe the 20 to a different rate that's you know still less and still offers a senior discount, but it is more in line with what their actual needs are at that time.

I completely agree with you.

Any other comments or questions on item four?

All right, seeing none.

Item five is a review of the preliminary agenda for our June 16th, 2026 regular meeting.

I would hope you all take the time to do that.

It's here in front of us uh before we adjourn for the evening.

Any other items of business?

Yeah, I have two two motions to make.

Yes, okay.

The first motion is I'd like to put on a study session to discuss the cemeteries again, I'll be upkeep the the upkeeper of the cemeteries.

I'll second that.

Okay, and the next motion is to put on the next Tuesday night agenda to vote on the 2016 change of government for formal change of government.

I mean 2026, I'm sorry.

Have we heard back from the IG on this on their opinion, Kevin?

No, sir.

So well that's my motion, but you know, my understanding was that we were waiting to hear back from the attorney general's office.

Have you been in contact with them?

No, I haven't.

Jeff, have you heard anything?

We have not.

So when do you think we'll get an opinion?

I I cannot speculate.

Okay, I'll just read.

I'll just withdraw the motion right now.

Thank you.

Alrighty.

Any other motions for the evening?

Wow, so to adjourn.

You made two motions, correct?

One of the discussion, yes now.

Okay, is that is that gonna be on the future study session?

Yes.

All right.

We have a motion to adjourn.

Do we have a second?

Second.

All right.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye.

All right.

We are adjourned.

Thank you, everyone.