The meeting is now in session.

Keep in mind these meetings are all being televised live.

Damon, you recognize.

Thank you, Mayor.

The first item this evening is a discussion related to the Rose Lawn, Holy Cross, and Forest Park Cemeteries owned by the private nonprofit group, Fort Smith Cemeteries, Inc.

The Board discussed this topic several times in the fall of 2025, including the possibility of the city acquiring and operating the cemeteries.

Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc.

has renewed their efforts for cemetery activity and maintenance.

And the city's neighborhood services department follows up on any complaints and observes that the cemeteries are complying or attempting to comply with basic property maintenance requirements.

The board of directors asked for this item to be revisited at a study session, so that is the reason it's on tonight's agenda.

We do have representatives from Fort Smith Cemeteries Inc.

here to make remarks and address concerns from the board.

And Mr.

Guard from Neighborhood Services is also present this evening.

With that introduction, I'll defer to the board's discussion on this item.

Okay.

Thank you.

Any opening discussions from the board.

Yeah.

She can go.

Director Rego and then Director Christina Sands.

Thank you, Mayor.

I just wanted to thank my uh colleague, Director George Kitzavis for uh making the motion uh alongside me for us to revisit this topic.

Um having the city, as folks know, uh be the folks who um assume the responsibility for these properties is a position that I've always been supportive of uh and have spoken out about um dating back into this time last year, and I hope that we're in a position to move forward to uh make that change.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director Christina Savage.

Well, I would um just like to state my position on this has not changed since we discussed it last year.

I believe if someone spends a lifetime contributing to Fort Smith, I don't want the message to their family to be thank you for the years of service, but you're on your own now.

Um these cemeteries are more than just parcels of land, they're part of our history.

Um generations of residents, veterans, business owners, teachers, police officers, firefighters, and their family members have been laid to rest.

They deserve to be treated with dignity.

Um, I do have more to say about it as we get into it, but um I really think this is something we should consider.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments from the board?

Yeah, mayor.

I have one.

Director Josh to say.

Marty or Ed, I have a couple of couple of questions.

You all come up and answer?

Please.

If you gentlemen would introduce yourselves for the for the record, thank you.

Uh yeah, Marty Clark, I'm president of Fort Smith Cemeteries, Inc.

And Ed Ralston.

Yeah.

Marty, yeah, I just I have on this the six-month ending sheet you gave us.

Yes.

Okay.

You all had uh revenue 153,000, expenses 128, net profit 25,000.

Yeah, I was I think Ed's gonna touch on the financials.

I was gonna do an opening statement and then turn it over to Ed if that's that's okay.

Yes, sir.

Go ahead.

Anybody else want to make any comments or I'll ask Ed, I mean that's fine.

Okay.

Okay.

I just I've got some prepared words.

Uh mayor and directors, thank you for allowing us to be here again this evening.

This is our fourth opportunity to discuss the future of Fort Smith's historic cemeteries, and I want to thank you for the time and thoughtful consideration that you've given this issue.

We know it's an important decision.

Tonight we're simply here to provide two brief updates.

First, Ed Ralston will give you a current financial snapshot in just a second.

The picture remains much the same as we've shared before.

Uh through generous community support and careful management, we've cut the cemeteries operating, but we are essentially breaking even in it uh that's that's positive.

So we feel good about that at the very moment.

The area that continues to suffer is grounds maintenance, uh, because we simply don't have the resources to provide the level of care that these cemeteries deserve.

And second, I'd like to address the issue about a discussion about a private operator.

Uh we appreciate that the board has invited a private company to present its qualifications.

That part of your responsibility is part of your responsibility, and we respect the thoroughness of your process.

Our board has also evaluated that option, and we have unanimously uh concluded that uh transferring these cemeteries to a for-profit operator is not the best long-term solution.

Uh this isn't about one company, it's about the unique responsibility that these cemeteries represent.

More than 55,000 members of the uh community are buried there.

The responsibility doesn't end when the last grave is sold, it continues forever.

And I think that's part of what we'll talk about the economic um viability of these long term.

It's there's a lot of pressure on cemeteries, and we can get into that a little bit more as well, but I know that was something we discussed earlier.

Um the responsibility doesn't end when the last grave is sold, it continues forever.

That's why we believe that these cemeteries are a public trust, not simply another business operation, but an actual public trust.

If the board considers any private operator, we simply encourage you to conduct thorough due diligence, review ownership, financial strength, perpetual care trust administration, regulatory history, and long-term commitments.

We did that ourselves, and it reinforced our belief that these cemeteries are best protected under public ownership.

We've also heard suggestions that it would cost the city substantially more to operate these cemeteries than it costs us.

Respectfully, we disagree with that.

The city already maintains parks, streets, and public property throughout Fort Smith, and we believe that those existing resources and efficiencies position the city to operate these cemeteries at least as effectively as any private operator.

If the city decides not to accept the cemeteries, we will continue operating them as responsibly as we can.

But we also have a responsibility to tell you honestly that without additional resources, the level of maintenance will continue to fall short of what these historic cemeteries deserve.

Our request remains the same as it has been from the beginning.

Please accept the transfer of these cemeteries and preserve them as a permanent public trust for the citizens of Fort Smith.

With that, I'd like to ask Ed to present the financial update.

Yeah, thanks, Marty.

Um, and really thanks again, guys, for taking the time to bring this back on the agenda.

It tells us we all acknowledge that it's an important topic for the community, and we do want to say thanks for that.

It didn't just get buried and and we appreciate it.

So the as Marty said, the financial picture stays about the same.

It's not a big volatile up and down uh the picture we uh put a little summary together.

You know, so far year to date, we've had 55 services conducted, and this is through June.

So, you know, uh a couple a week is the general uh drum beat.

We've got three full-time employees and two part-time employees.

Um that's where the the additional pickup would be, we believe, is we need a couple more people to to help on maintenance, and that's about it.

So at the current status of three full-time employees, two part-time employees, all being paid.

Um, you know, we're we're right now about 25 grand in the positive for the year.

That's after we assume uh after accounting for um about 25, 24,000 worth of donations.

So the donations are what has made us kind of positive on a operational basis without donations, it's break-even with a substandard level of maintenance to what we think it would be.

So with that, that's you know, we we've talked about the details and the numbers before.

We've met with the city, went through Sarah's budget, uh, got with Jeff and Maggie, we reviewed that and kind of agreed that you know that that budget, that million plus number was not the reality that we would probably live in.

That's something that we're experiencing and that we have experienced is what we would expect.

We would continue to experience financially with a couple more resources to uh to take care of it properly.

So with that, I'd be happy.

We do have about the the perpetual care fund, uh, two two other topics financially related.

One is the perpetual care fund, which is is owned by the the nonprofit.

So we uh it's actually our funds that are in trust is around 850,000.

So the idea would be those funds would transfer.

You can see on the income statement we made about 12 grand has been distributed to us this year, which is critical on our budget, but we've gotten about 12,000 worth of earnings from the 850 trust.

We also will receive, we're in the process of applying for a payout from the principal that would go towards certain capital improvement items.

So it's a little bit of a process to get those approved by the state, but with three there's a process, but you get three bids on certain items that we think are important infrastructure related, primarily uh building related.

We've got about a hundred and fifty thousand worth of that work that will come out of the perpetual care fund as reimbursement once that process is complete.

At that, the the facilities will be in pretty good shape infrastructure-wise.

So I don't think that it's like we would hand it to the city and have a big long list of deferred maintenance items that's hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars to get it where it should be.

We'll be in pretty good shape after those investments are uh are executed and we're in line to do that.

Um with that, anyway.

Oh, yeah, the the bank related.

So you guys also know that there's uh we do have a six hundred and fifty-ish thousand dollar loan payable to first security bank.

Uh we have been in default on that loan for uh over two years.

And so I had a conversation with Zach Ledford, the local president of first security today, and his comment was they understand exactly where we are, they understand exactly what the prospects of ever getting paid for it are, and they are very supportive of us being here to help these properties land where they believe that they should land, which is with uh with public ownership by way of the city.

So the uh they agreed that they would do whatever, take whatever steps necessary to facilitate the uh the transfer.

So the debt that we have we believe is not going to be an issue as we know the city would not be interested in assuming debt related to the properties.

Okay.

Thank you.

Any questions or comments from the board?

Okay, anybody you all want to know, Christine?

Do you might recognize me?

Yeah, you oh I'm sorry.

Yeah.

I was just trying to be nice.

Um Ed.

Uh on this on this uh six-month uh sheet, I don't I don't see where's the lot there's no labor on there.

Is there?

I'm sorry, that's George, that's all all of the expenses we lumped into the 128,000.

So you've got so that includes labor also.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, that's all every check that we've written to employees to buy a new lawnmower to whatever, every every cash outlay that we've made is rolled up into that one twenty eight.

Okay, now what about the the the keep up of the grounds, the cut and grass cutting, the weeding, all that is that is that in here?

Yes, sir.

That's included in that in that number also.

So fuel, lawnmowers, maintenance of mowers, the people to operate them, all of that is included in the 128.

Okay, one two more quick questions.

The the $650,000 loan.

Yep.

What was the original use for that loan?

Was that to buy equipment?

It was primarily in for you at that time the the cemeteries were in extreme disarray.

So the the everything about it from fallen trees to not having gates, fences, infrastructure was just very, very poor.

And so all of that money was put back into the facilities uh for improvement purposes, along with another two hundred thousand from First National Bank who forgave that as well.

So in the last call at four or five years, you know, eight hundred th over three quarters of a million dollars has been put back into the property.

So the city will not be responsible for repayment of these loans?

No, sir.

For either one.

Correct.

Wow.

And could last question, what do you estimate the total yearly cost that it's gonna would it be to the city or the taxpayers to upkeep these?

So right now we're operating it, I would say we're at a break-even.

So if you if we could continue to operate at a break-even and then add additional expense, which is going to cause it to operate at a deficit, right?

Which is what we can't afford to do.

If you add two people, which we believe is plenty adequate at $40,000 apiece, that's about $17 an hour, which is what the ballpark of what we pay for uh maintenance guys.

You know, you're talking about an eighty thousand dollar call it a hundred thousand dollars all in net per year.

Per year, yes, sir.

Per year.

Okay.

One more quick question.

If the after a year, I don't mind helping all out for a year to get this going, but after the year, say the city says, you know what, this isn't cost effective for us, and we want out, what happens?

Does it come back to you all or does it go to the state or private state?

I think that would be to be determined.

I mean, I think that that the the uh the idea would be um would figure out a way to make it work.

And then if it if it did not, then the city would need to be in a position to find so the city does take it, y'all will still be available for advisement.

Yeah, I'm comment on that a little bit.

Um there is a process of transfer, and it's not uncommon for a a uh perpetual fund care facility to be transferred to a city.

So there is a process in place for that.

Um we we think that would be probably a three-month process.

Um but afterwards, you know, we've availed ourselves and we've committed to the fact that we would we would relish um having a a citizens-led adjunct committee to this cemetery's operation.

That's a great idea.

That would be uh responsible for also helping fundraise to further reduce that deficit.

And then also I think you know, we have some really committed employees that are there, administrators.

Yeah, they're willing to stay on, and it would help us continue to communicate through them to make that transfer much easier.

Okay, thank you, Marty.

Thank you.

Who's next?

I mean, I'm I'm done.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Director Director Neil Martin.

Uh and Director Katzavis just wanted to clarify.

This is not uh a situation where we help them out for uh a year and then turn it back over to them.

No, no, I know that.

Okay, I just want to make sure say the worst happened, say our finances just really went down once our what's our way out.

There is no way out.

I I would add to that that if the city takes on ownership of these cemeteries, we own them and operate them forever.

Yep.

Forever.

Yep.

Just want just wanted to make sure.

But the board can the board can make adjustments, correct?

If we want to get rid of, I mean, transfer them to somebody, or we we would we would have to sell them to somebody.

Or sell them or whatever.

I mean, yeah.

Well, and I think I think that there would be more to that.

I think that the I don't remember the name of the cemetery advisory group from the state.

But I mean they would have a they would have a place to weigh in on that as the Department of Health and the State's interest in those.

I don't and once the city owns them, I mean our the level of maintenance we may adjust from year to year based on availability, but if the city owns them, the city is obligated to maintain them and own them.

That and that's and there won't it be very unlikely, very unlikely.

Probably not possible for it to be a good thing.

But it's worse came to worse state could theoretically take them over, correct?

Correct.

That's right, Marty.

Yes, but I mean that's that's also our point is that we think it should be a long-term asset that the city assumes responsibility for.

Yeah.

So I just want I just wanted to clarify that with you, uh, Director Kat Savus.

Um good job on the uh the positive uh on the year to date statement.

I think that's really good.

Um, you know, one uh I I think another thing is is really uh uh important to note there haven't been many complaints from for for the three cemeteries, and I think that's good.

I think that that speaks to uh the work that you guys have done.

Um I did have somebody reach out to me the other day from California and uh and we've talked about it, but uh you know I got with Sean Guard and I I mean I think we're we understand what what what's happening there.

So um kudos to you guys for the the effort that you've that you put in here.

Um the one thing that I would I would like and I appreciate these numbers if if we could get say maybe the last three years financials, is that possible to get?

I don't think we've I don't think we've had financials yet that we've looked at.

I think we did last year.

There was a pretty good accounting for uh for expenses that they provided to us last fall, and I didn't I didn't put that in the back.

I can but I can send that note.

Okay, we have it's all on QuickBooks click click, no.

Perfect, perfect.

And this $650,000, that the what would have to happen with the bank.

Could uh because I really wouldn't want to assume a six hundred and fifty thousand dollar loan.

So what would what would have to happen there if we were to take these on.

I'd you can you start.

I mean I guess the bank would have to get involved in this.

But but the but the property the loan is not collateralized on the property itself, correct?

The loan is collateralized with the property on itself.

At the same time, the not I want to be very clear, I do not want to speak for first security bank, right?

But my my thought would be and and what I've gathered is they don't have an interest in repossessing and operating this collateral, and so they would be agreeable to working out a way where with the understanding that the city doesn't want to uh is not willing to uh take on that liability.

Right.

So they would have to obviously I think the the net would result would be a uh a default and a write-off.

Okay.

I'd I'd want to make sure that we we we have uh uh something like that.

And then that perpetual care fund would I mean what what's involved in in the transition, what happens there?

So so the state facilitates all the all of the transition and um the city would become the owner uh and beneficiary of these trusts.

There's actually two trusts combined, they're 850, but there's one trust for Roselawn and Holy Park, another trust for Forest Park.

Both of them, Fort Smith Cemeteries is the beneficiary of, and that would transfer to the city of Fort Smith would be the beneficiary.

There would still be a perpetual trust obligation to the state, even though the city is operating it, but that's the purpose of those trust funds.

They would basically transfer to a trust account of the city essentially.

So when you said we would have the city would then contribute to that perpetual care fund.

Well, it that the the same way we do, which is that it's a percentage of sales, 20 percent.

Yeah, 20 percent of revenue sales for new plot sales and openings and closings goes to uh the perpetual care fund.

Okay.

Thank you, uh Director Good.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um first off, Marty, Ed, appreciate you guys being here again.

Thank you for the information and the presentation.

Um let me also thank Director Rigo and Chris and Sabis are restating your positions where we were previously and where you are now.

Um just to restate my position, you know, I was all for whatever it took to maintain our cemeteries of our citizens and their loved ones, theirs and ours, all of ours.

You know, and I'll I'll say this.

When we had the presentation by the private company that kind of presented, you know, I thought that was the best way to go with that time because there would be if I can recall, no money out of the city's pockets for that expense.

But we would be leaving the care uh to someone from outside of the area.

And it's kind of questionable, but you know, again, financially that was my option.

But the bottom line, we need to get them taken care of.

And at this point, I can't see the city taking on taking ownership of the cemeteries.

I mean, realistically, we that would be an ongoing year after year cost.

Unless we unless we looked at it like Director George Cassavett spoke to him, which I don't want to do, which we shouldn't do.

If we're going to obligate ourselves to take care of these properties and be a part of maintaining our history, you know, and our loved ones, you know, plots, we need to do whatever that position is.

And at this time, I think the best position is to help these help this organization out, cover the cost.

I we got a uh presentation, we had a presentation before from um Sarah Deucer, Dr.

Deuster, about how much it would cost the city to take it over.

And now that we looking at these financials in here, uh Marty and Ed's numbers, the numbers are drastically cut.

So I think it would be in our best interest as well as the citizens to move forward with helping these gentlemen out.

Director Savage.

You know, I would just add that this is something we're doing because it's the right thing to do.

Um, you know, public money should be spent for the public good, and I believe this is one of those instances.

You know, it's what's the message we're sending to people.

You can live here, you can work here, you can pay taxes here, but don't die here.

We're not going to take care of you.

That's not the message I want to uh send.

I don't I I don't believe that reflects our values as a community.

Um, you know, we have to think about too what happens if if these cemeteries become neglected, overgrown, unsafe, uh, it invites vandalism, it brings down property values in the surrounding neighborhoods.

Um, you know, I feel like we always find the money for everything else.

I think this is something that's really critical.

Um it says who we are as a society, how we take care of those who have gone before us, and um, you know, I'm certainly happy to see these numbers look a lot better than the numbers we saw last year.

Um so you know, I think this is certainly um we're on the right track.

Thank you.

Mr.

Dingman.

Uh yes, I'd like to address comments that Director Good made.

Um just for clarification purposes, for the city to provide to to legitimately provide funding for uh operation of these properties, the city needs to be the owner.

The city the city should not contribute funding towards the uh the towards a private uh not for private notwithstanding, but towards a private entity operating their their property.

The city should not do that.

I believe the city cannot do that.

So the city can't fund a nonprofit is what you're doing.

That's not that's not what I said.

I mean, the if for the in order for the city to spend operating dollars on these properties, the city needs to own them.

We do not need to provide funding to uh nonprofit for operating the cemeteries.

So we couldn't provide money to them to let them let them continue to run.

That's correct.

But Jeff, the idea that if the city takes it over, it's gotta be you know exorbitantly more expensive than if they're running it.

I mean, shouldn't the numbers be about the same?

We we can certainly look at the operating costs.

I mean uh the operating budget that was presented by staff last fall was uh uh an all-in-type of budget.

But certainly if we're if if we're looking at an operating budget, we would we would create the most austere budget that we possibly could to maximize the the operation of the property but also appropriately maintain it.

You know, I think sometimes leadership requires deciding that certain responsibilities matter enough to fund.

I'm not someone who's um typically looking to spend money, but I think this is something that's worthwhile um for the public good.

Okay, thank you, Director Rigo, and then Director Neil Martin, and then back to Director Good.

Well, I was just prepared to make a motion mayor, so if there's more discussion, that's fine.

Okay, Director Neil Moore.

Uh, just real quick, I did reach out to the company that that uh was willing to purchase the um the uh cemeteries and they're still interested.

So I just want to at least put that on the table.

Okay, thank you.

Direct okay.

I just wanted to I just wanted to thank um uh Jeff Dieman for your for your clarification on my on my comment.

So I appreciate that because I was not under that understanding of what I had read.

And I also want to thank Neil Martin for reaching out to the private company because again, if we're having to take ownership of this, that's going to be the ongoing cost that we that we just don't want to bring up, bring bring up right now.

I mean, because of budgetary constraints.

You know, I'm I'm very much still in favor then of looking at that private organization then.

Christina.

I would say the private organization, I received an email.

I don't know if you all received it as well.

Someone they they operate a cemetery here in town.

And I had someone that has two children buried in that cemetery, and they said I'm thinking about having them dug up and cremated because it is in such pitiful shape out there.

It's disgraceful the way they're maintaining it.

And I I don't want to to see any more of our cemeteries fall into a situation with somebody that doesn't care about.

I mean, we've got to be honest.

There is not this is not a good business model.

There's not money to be made.

So any private company that's telling you we're gonna come in and take this over, we've got this business model.

I mean, it just doesn't track.

It's a cemetery.

Eventually you run out of space.

This is something that belongs with the city.

And budgetary constraints, I understand, but we we find money for everything else.

And we're talking about a hundred thousand dollars.

It seems like a modest investment um to preserve an important community asset.

I mean, I think this really is a statement about who we are as a community.

Thank you.

Director Good.

Thanks again, Mayor.

Uh Director Sabbath, just Christina because have it remind me the um the cemetery that they operate is the one on state lawn, is that correct?

Okay.

So after they made their presentation, I actually went out there.

The cemetery is immaculate.

I was there, yes.

I was there today.

Yeah, so I know that we have people, you know, that aren't always happy with the way we always do things, or or other organizations.

The thing is, you know, we all would we all would want the most and best pristine uh things that we could get for our dollar.

But again, you know, I don't want to take the the word for a couple of people to say that the place was was you know inappropriate or neglected when I saw firsthand that it was not.

Okay.

Direct Rigo, you recognize.

Uh I was just gonna remind us in this conversation about the statement that was made by the gentleman from Fort Smith Cemeteries, Inc.

that they had assessed uh the private entity and that their board did not wish to enter into a business relationship uh with that uh entity.

And so, you know, that's that to me is very um telling and and noteworthy.

Okay.

Director Christian Passavits.

I think it's important to remember, and I got this email, I guess a week or maybe two weeks ago about the conditions.

Uh maybe they've cleaned it up since, but it's important to remember eventually, even if it looks good today, it will be in disarray because they're going to run out of room, which means they're going to run out of money and they're not going to upkeep it.

So that's just something to think about for the future.

You know, as we talk about generational things, um, you know, eventually when they run out of room, they're not bringing in any more money, and I don't believe they'll upkeep it.

They've had several complaints um with the um I can't remember the um cemeteries division.

Cemeteries division, yes, thank you.

Director Regal and then Director George Cassandra.

That's my last question.

Go ahead, sir.

No, go on.

That's just well I'd like to then I'd like to make a motion.

Oh, okay.

Well, let me let me Jeff, let me ask you this.

What or uh Marty or Ed, what what if the city just paid for the ground upkeep of the grounds, the demoing, the cutting, the wood eating.

We can't do that, George.

You can't do that either.

No, sir.

Why?

Because it's not the city's property.

Is that a city ordinance or a state of it?

State law.

This is a constitutional so this is all or nothing.

Golly.

Okay.

Director Rigo.

I'd just like to make a motion uh for the next uh regular meeting to have uh resolution ordinance, whichever is appropriate in front of us for the city to take over the ownership and operation of these cemeteries.

I'll second that.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

With that, we'll go to item number two.

Okay.

Uh item number two is a discussion requested by the board related to municipal fines for transporting unhoused persons to Fort Smith.

There has been community speculation that other jurisdictions have provided transportation for unhoused individuals in their communities to travel to Fort Smith in order to take advantage of services offered in this community.

Absorbing the needs of people from other communities depletes the available resources to serve Fort Smith's own unhoused population.

The board asks for discussion of a possible action to impose fines or possible other sanctions on other jurisdictions who are transporting their unhoused persons to Fort Smith.

Some example ordinances have been found.

Those were included in the summary and summarized in the board's agenda packet materials.

With that introduction, I'll defer to the board's discussion.

Thank you.

Director Deal Martin, you're recognized to open.

Yeah, so I I brought this up.

So after spending a little time with our our first responders, both have told me that this is a growing problem that people are being dropped off in Fort Smith from outside the city.

Businesses have also communicated this to me.

Businesses that have been downtown.

They've reported that uh same personally to me.

Our staff memo says community speculation, and and and I thought that was kind of interesting, but it doesn't sound like we have real data on it.

But I would like to open it up to the board and just ask: are you guys hearing the same thing that I'm hearing?

I mean, I'm I'm I know uh some of us spend time with with our police and fire our first responders.

Are you guys hearing the same thing?

Yes.

You are I've heard it from all over this people from all the way down to the restaurant.

Okay, Little Rock, Pine Bluff, Conway, Russellville.

Every one of them are these homeless people.

Hey, there's a place in Fort Smith called Hope Campus.

We'll give you a bus ticket, take you there, and they'll take care of you.

Okay.

Even the police officers of Little Rock, so they go around just looking for homeless and then tell them to hear what you're going to look at Fort Smith.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean I think we've heard the same from our staff.

Um and and you know, I'd I'd like to get some clarification on that.

We did get a couple, or I got a couple emails.

I don't know if those emails made it to the to the board.

Um, but I ask a question of our uh first responders if we have if this is something that this happened.

Um and I'll just I'll just read them for the for the record and for everybody in attendance.

We have confirmed, I s we have confirmed isolated instances of law enforcement from neighboring jurisdictions bringing homeless to Fort Smith after the fact.

They learned this after the fact.

We also have self-reported claims by homeless persons of being given bus tickets to Fort Smith from other cities, true, but no actual proof.

Um we don't have any firsthand knowledge of multiple homeless persons being transmitted to Fort Smith.

So that's uh transported to Fort Smith.

So that's one of our first responders.

Uh the other one is our our personnel can cannot substantiate any claims that homeless individuals are being bussed to Fort Smith by other municipalities or organizations.

However, during incident responses, firefighters routinely ask individuals where they are from.

We estimate four out of five homeless individuals advised they are from out of state.

That's right.

When questioned about how they ended up here, most provide they took a bus here after hearing about Hope Campus and other exactly right.

These these are the folks that are the closest to uh downtown, I believe uh, you know, or they're stationed down there, they patrol down there, and just something that that I hear over and over.

And I kind of want to I I I saw Director Regal's hand go up, so I'd love to hear from him.

But I'd like to hear from the board.

And are you guys hearing the same thing?

I if if we if we um this is a multifaceted problem.

I think uh some of our folks have have uh made mention of you know this is a whole you've got to take a holistic approach.

And I know that there's uh there's a a homeless services community uh group that I think met here last week, last Tuesday or something, or last Wednesday.

Um I don't think this is the magic bullet to solving anything, but I think we've got to look at some ways in which to help curb some of this.

This is not gonna fix the problem, but I think it disincentivizes what I'm hearing and what some of us are hearing, and potentially could potentially stop the inflow of some things.

Now, I what we've said, what the board has said is we want to take care of our own.

We want to take care of our own.

Those that fall into homelessness that are that are in homes in our area, we want to take care of those guys.

But when the when if the problem is getting exacerbated by folks outside of Fort Smith, I think that's where we need to start looking to see if there's a way that we can cut that off and then uh address the other uh homelessness concerns that we have.

So that's kind of my my thought process on the outset of this discussion.

Okay, thank you.

Director Rigo.

Uh thanks, Mayor.

And I hope I see a lot of folks, a lot of leaders from our community of care here tonight.

And uh, you know, I hope we would have the the willingness to listen uh and hear from them tonight about what they uh observe uh in the nonprofits that they um operate and help to run.

I mean for me, it's summed up right in the end of the of the memo uh of this discussion item.

Uh to date, none of the jurisdictions have reported any enforcement actions under their adopted ordinance, and it's even been said in the debate tonight, this is not going to fix the problem, and this is not a magic bullet.

And so I you know, I've said before many times, I don't believe in just putting pieces of paper uh into the code just to boy, we we really tried.

I I believe in doing things uh that work if there are things that work, and I don't believe in trying to suggest I'll rephrase.

I don't believe that a person is less than or that a person does not deserve the services that are available in a community because they're not from this community.

And that's a philosophical difference that I that exists, but that's where I stand.

Thank you, Mayor.

Director Good.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Director Eagle, for your comments.

Um, just really quick.

I I I as much as we need every quiver and every tool and every arrow in our quiver that we can to address the problem.

I I don't see that this would have any real meat.

I don't see how it it could curtail any homeless person from hearing about Hope Campus and coming here.

Um, you know, especially when we have you know stated that you know we don't have the absolute proof that it's taking place.

I've heard that theory, you know, for years since we've been talking about homeless for for quite some time.

Uh I've never heard it from anyone on the street.

Um, you know, uh, even when I went to used to go visit the the next step day room.

I can't say that that was even um part of the conversation at that time.

But you know, my last comment is you know, Fort Smith wants to take care of our own.

Yes, we do want to take care of our own.

Who are our own?

You know, and I and I'm not gonna be preachy, but you know, who are our own, you know, our neighbors are our own.

The Bible, you know, you know, love the love love our neighbors as you love yourself.

That's all I'm gonna say.

You know, we can't differentiate you know who comes in on bad terms, hard times, and who doesn't.

Do we do we neglect those that are here under those circumstances?

Yeah, and I do understand that there are a number of people that take advantage of our services and situations.

But again, do we turn a blind eye to those in need?

And I say no.

Okay.

Any other comments?

Sean here, Sean.

No, but so come here, man.

I'm asking a question.

Sean Gard is director of neighborhood services.

Sean, you deal with these people every day, don't you?

Pretty much so.

How many years have you been in the city?

Uh I've been with the city all combined together about 26 years.

Do you can you remember before Hope Campus was built the homeless situation in town?

The level of the homeless.

Uh it's not it wasn't this bad, was it?

To be honest, no, it wasn't, Director.

Yeah.

Well, what I mean, no, you can't wave a magic one and make this go away.

It's not going to go away.

It won't go away for it may never go away.

No, there's, you know, unfortunately, this is an issue that's being dealt with all across the United States right now, and Fort Smith is not immune to it at all.

No, uh, we uh we are uh I can't confirm how sometimes the folks that are coming in from out of state are getting here.

But I know a lot of the encampments that we do uh handle through the nuisance ordinances that a lot of them that when we when we do make contact with individuals within the encampments, most of them are saying they're out of state from California, Northwest Arkansas, uh Southeast Arkansas, uh, Iowa, Alaska, even, and so they're coming in from all over.

And why is this Fort Smith is a generous city?

We are a giving city.

We have a city with a big heart, and word is out, and they're coming here, but most of them they won't tell us how they're getting here.

Of course, that's not a question we really ask them.

We try just to point them out, point out the situation that you're you're occupying private property and you don't have permission to be on here and the items that are out here uh are in violation of our city ordinance.

And most of the time, once we post a property and we contact the owner, they'll move on fairly quickly.

No, I don't.

Uh neighborhood services, we try to stay as active as we possibly can to try and stay ahead of it so things do not get out of control.

And uh we do meet with the nonprofits quite often, we brainstorm.

But so far, to be honest with you, we don't have a clear answer on how to curb this right now.

It's just to stay active on it.

What do you mean by when you say move on relatively quickly?

They move on to someone else's property or they move on to a different city.

No, they just move on to a different area within the city director.

Okay.

And I think it's an important point you brought up that it's up to the property owner then to clean it up because I had a property owner that reached out to me and they sent me a video and there was a hole that had been dug that people could stand in, and there were about twelve people living there.

And I think they had to bring in bulldozers to fill it in.

I mean, they spent over ten thousand dollars on this property they owned, and it was quite an expense to them.

It has become quite an expense to the property owners.

Um what we have found, uh, Director Christina just have us is that a lot of these uh uh vacant properties or wooded properties that once they receive notification from the city of Fort Smith on the violations that they've been going in there and actually just clearing the property now.

And the more we have found out that when coverage can be eliminated, the likelihood of returning of encampments is declined rap yeah, quite drastically.

Go ahead, Andrew Director Good.

Will you finish?

Yeah, Sean, uh thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah, go ahead.

I'm sorry.

Thank you.

Um Sean, I wanted to thank you for for your hard work and service.

I mean, I know this is a non-ending problem, you know, and it's a very thankless problem.

It's a very thankless job.

I know that.

Uh I've re had to report several incidents myself.

But I wanted to point out, you know, people like Sean, and there's people in the audience, oh, different churches and nonprofits and individuals that have taken their own money to help s to help some of these unhoused folks, whether they're individuals or families, help them get on a bus and send them to where they needed to go.

That's what we're dealing with here.

Like Sean said, we are just a very generous and caring community at heart, I believe.

And again, thank you and thank all of you for all you do for the young housed in our community.

Director Rego.

Thanks, Mayor.

I'd just, if it's all right with you, sir, I'd like to, and if he's prepared or willing to do so, I would like to hear a little bit from uh Mr.

Casey Wilson of the Hope Campus about um you know what their observations have been in the recent past about um the folks that they're serving and and um the experiences they're having and and any thoughts that they'd be willing to share.

If that's all right with you, Mayor.

Yes, absolutely.

Casey, go ahead and introduce yourself and your title, please.

I'm the uh Casey Wilson, uh the executive director of uh Hope Campus.

Yeah, uh so I'm glad you invited me up here to talk and speak on this.

Um I'm trying to put myself in, you know, someone that doesn't get to see the successes that I get to see every day they're shoes um because you know we helped 109 last year transition out of homelessness, you know.

People aren't being bussed here, and I have some data and facts to back it up instead of instead of speculation.

But but even if they were the the social worker and the the you know Christian in me thinks about you know the people that are rehabbed into being productive members of society.

And before I got here, I was talking with a j gentleman named Josh Henderson um who uh became homeless two months ago, uh got employed.

Uh he just got an apartment.

We helped him get an apartment today, and he's been driving, you know, and um I asked him to join us, but he was a little too nervous.

Uh Sean, he does do a wonderful job in in my two and a half years at the campus.

Uh I've seen you know um a transition, you know, into Sean in that leadership role of that homeless alliance that we is what we call it when we meet.

Um, but you know, um so I appreciate his time and effort into this issue.

Um so we had LaBacca, the La Vacca Police Department, they did drop off someone uh last week.

Um we've had Conway Behavioral Health.

They have dropped off a few people, but we try to mitigate that, and I've actually called them twice uh to you know uh try to fight against that.

I was born and raised in Fort Smith.

I love it as much as you guys do.

And that's what we're gonna be as an apartment a partner here and and you know if you do pass this ordinance uh we're gonna do whatever we can to help with it but I just hope we're not trying to make it illegal to be in poverty you know that's what part of me feels like it um because you know some communities have if you make this amount of money please come live here but you know if you're in poverty and homeless uh you're not welcome here uh whether that's you know finding the entity that sent them or uh the individual I don't know what that looks like but I've been talking with uh Joplin um and their commissioner on homelessness so I know they do have this ordinance and um so they also their city formulated the commission uh and it's called the Joplin Commission on homelessness and and he's the commissioner or director and um he tries to get the kind of like what Sean's doing I guess is tries to get the service providers to work together not duplicate services and things like that.

You know my my stance on it is um outreach case management and outreach you know because uh the people that we're serving they don't have a social support system like we might have they don't have anyone so we're the only people they have as cheerleaders uh trying to cheer them on and also another point I want to make is you know in 2009 this board right here formulated a task force to start Hope Campus uh and through that study is how Hope Campus got developed uh so whether we become a high barrier shelter because we are a low barrier shelter you don't have to have an ID and things but if we became a high barrier shelter and um started you know pushing against people being welcomed to the campus I I think people would be on private property a lot more you know um but yeah but I'm open to any questions.

Um Casey what would you mind articulating for us what's the purpose and the mission of the Hope Campus.

Yeah um so our mission is uh to promote uh and help individuals and walk alongside them towards self-sufficiency and stability uh pulling them out of homelessness you know our mission is to uh prevent and so one way we prevent homelessness is uh we access homeless prevention uh uh funds through a grant with the state of Arkansas um and that's something that I I would love to work with you guys on more because cities and or municipalities can access that grant but you have to put some skin in the game and match it uh dollar for dollar and we just don't have those kind of funds but but we were able to get a little bit to prevent homelessness and there's something called rapid rehousing but the city has access to that kind of money and could bring thousands of dollars you know hundred five hundred thousand million to Fort Smith to put in land um or landlords pockets and help people prevent them from being home becoming homeless and to pull people out of homelessness but yeah yeah uh director Neil Martin and then director Christian yeah so you know we we as a board have tried a couple of different things um to try to do something on our side you know one was to try to pass the the grants pass ordinance that was decided by the Supreme Court uh there weren't enough votes for that so we we didn't do it um but we do I I think that the one the one of the things to think about is there are C D BG funds home funds that we provide or that we we authorize I mean they're they're federal dollars but they're tax dollars and these grants are tax dollars.

So this this isn't a you know a cost that is not you know beared by everybody.

What what I'm trying to get at is can we can we lessen some of those costs and also can we focus those resources on the people that are here in Fort Smith focus those resources so that that hundred and nine can next year it could be 150.

Next year it could the year after that 200 you know those kind of things to to get them out of to get folks out of homelessness.

So I think that's the that's the point.

I I just I just believe that someone being unhoused is not right for me to allow for any of us to allow so if we can start to narrow our focus a little bit on our people Fort Smiths Van Buren folks I think we can we can make a better dent but I don't think the problem ever slows down.

I don't think it slows down I think we're continuing to see new people new people new people and again it's it's anecdotal but it's coming from those that are that are that are dealing with it on the city side every single day.

And again, it's it's anecdotal, but it's coming from those that are that are that are dealing with it on the city side every single day.

So we as a board, I think we've got an opportunity to do something.

I I would like to do something rather than nothing, because if we don't do anything, next year rolls around, we we throw C D B G funds at it.

And we you know we'll have to see what the point in time count is.

I think we got that not too long ago.

And it spiked after after COVID and it's slightly coming down a little bit, but it's still record record high.

Um so I th that's that's where I'm trying to get.

I want I want I don't think it's right for me to allow people to stay unsheltered.

Not because I'm a policymaker, because I'm a human.

So I think we as a board have an opportunity to do some things, but we've chosen not to.

So I have a few things if I may uh to respond.

Um so I had an interesting phone call.

Uh Mr.

McCutcheon had called me, Joey, and uh he asked me um, you know, if y'all had an opportunity to either uh get more beds or get co case more case manager managers, which one would you choose?

And it'd be case managers because we're not seeing an influx and needed beds.

You know, we're not spiking at the shelter.

I mean, we do hit max or capacity, but we're not seeing you know, turning away uh 20 uh 15 people uh only on colder nights um uh bef like whenever it's below between 35 and 40 degrees because at 30 35 degrees we open it to anyone anyone with inclement weather, but we're not seeing um a need for more beds.

We need more case managers for sure.

Um and you know, I think policy and thinking outside the box would be something like the cemetery issue.

You know, I've got a bunch of people with an employment and looking for employment, and we helped 104 of them get employed last year directly.

But let's think outside of the box and and try to come up with some kind of program like Bayville has where you know they uh their sanitation sanitation department pays the homeless to pick up trash and pick up uh different sanitation.

Look, let's have a conversation about the cemetery and try to figure something out with that, some kind of out of the box program.

Uh and in my conversations with Joplin's uh commissioner on homelessness, um, you know, the reality is we'll probably never get it and like Sean said, we'll probably never have zero homeless, but we can hit net zero, meaning not increasing that number, like you said, the point in time count, not uh um getting more homeless uh and trying to keep that flat or going down.

That's the reality of it.

Christian Savage.

You said something I thought was interesting as you said that the police bring people to you.

But have you ever thought about how many officers it takes off the street to do that?

Yeah, so no, I'm not done.

Because I spoke with someone who works out at the port, they said there was an incident a few weeks back, took five officers off the street for over an hour that couldn't help people who are living here, working here, paying taxes here.

This is a huge strain on our resources.

And eventually we're going to reach a point of critical failure where we can no longer provide for anyone.

So I appreciate what you're doing to get people rehabilitated and get them back in integrated to society, but we have to make the distinction between the people who are going through the programs and trying to get reintegrated back into society and can be helped and the people who aren't interested in that.

And I think that's what gets lost in this conversation is we don't make that distinction, but we see with our fire department how many of the calls are to Hope Campus, it's more than any other.

Number one.

It's every day.

It's number one.

It's sometimes it's more than one a day, and maybe that's not within your program, maybe that's outside of it.

But I think what we're doing is just trying to find something to get our arms around this problem so it doesn't continue to grow.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Director George Cassaves.

Okay, see how many actual people can you hold in your facility?

143.

That's beds, food, feed them, everything.

Oh, so food, um, our meals, um, they have been increasing a little bit since February.

But uh, we serve around 11 to 12,000 minutes.

So if a homeless person comes to town, they come to your campus, but you're full, then what what what are they told?

So if we're full, we the we turn them away.

But if it's under 35 degrees or above uh, I'm sorry, if it's raining, snowing or below 35, we let them in and we put maps.

Are they put on any kind of list to to come back later when the when there's room?

Uh no, they try again the next night.

Oh, in the room, yeah.

Yeah.

You have to sign up.

So how we we do try to change behavior and we separate it.

So we have 143 beds total.

We have 90 that are emergency shelter.

You have to sign up at five o'clock for those beds every night.

Uh then we have something called worker beds.

There's 10 of those, and if you can prove that you're employed, you can stay in our worker bed and you don't have to sign up anymore.

And we have our 43 in our program dorm, which you have to work with a case manager, meet with them weekly.

You have to do our job skills and ready job readiness class every Wednesday, and uh you don't have to sign up anymore.

You have your own laundry area, uh, your own shower.

And yeah, I'd love I'd love to show you around and and well, I've been meaning to come down there, but I I just uh I don't I don't know.

Uh nobody's invited me.

Yeah.

Well I'm I'll I'm emailing you tomorrow.

What what is your percentage of people that are actually real rehabilitated?

So uh this is the question.

So we serve about 519 unique individuals uh a year, and uh so uh last year there was a hundred and nine that transitioned out of homelessness.

So, you know, I I'm off the top of my head, you know, I'd say what is that 15 percent, 14.

Neil, you're real good at math, and you can maybe figure it up.

I'd say that again.

What's the what's the number?

We had a 109 that transitioned out of homelessness last year, and each year we serve about 519 unique individuals.

So if you look at the success, 21 percent, so 21 percent.

Yeah, because you know I've talked to the mayor of Barling, Greenwood, the Bambi, and they have no homeless problem.

Nothing.

Yeah, you know, and I'm not knocking Hope Canvas.

I think that's a great thing.

I think you're doing a great job, but there's a common denial denominator here why people are coming here.

You know, yeah.

Um, I mean you can only do so much.

You're right.

And um, you know, there there are services here and and coming here, but you know, their population um is so much smaller, and you know, I don't really have a response to that, but but uh you know next step down room, they feed them, correct?

Uh yes, I believe so.

Yeah, and they're doing the tiny houses for them.

Yeah, correct, which will help.

Yeah, it will help.

You know, working I I can't wait to work with Sharon on that if she'll partner with us and I believe she will she's a smart girl.

Because that could be a next step for our individuals for sure after they but I don't know who said it, but if we put a stop, I mean if we can just control this, kind of like a w call water leaks, we're gonna have water leaks, but we're gonna at least reduce them.

If we can control the the the population or just get it down to a net something.

Net zero.

Well, you know, that's not gonna happen, but still, you see what I'm saying?

I do, I do.

Um and you know, on the dispatch calls to the campus, uh, you know, we touched on this last year and had a study session, and and I think at that time she figured said the Walmart and Zero had you know police, I think, but I don't know if that's changed.

But you know, we whenever Hope Campus started, there it was supposed to be a substation for the police PD.

So we have an office open and available for a police officer.

Yeah, so no, we would love for a police officer to be stationed there or just use it as a substation because I think that presence could help help us too, because you know, our staff's trying to uh mini, you know, handle uh everything there, and you know, we're just case managers.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Uh settle, uh Director Neil Martin, and then Director Rego.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Casey, for being here.

Appreciate it.

I didn't know you're coming.

Um Hope Campus was originally designed to be a coalition of all services.

Everybody was supposed to come on board, one stop shop, be done.

That's what was sold to this board.

Unfortunately, that's not what happened.

Everybody still stayed their own kingdoms, and we are where we are today.

You said something that's interesting.

Conway dropped off people.

Why did they drop them off?

Yeah, I have no idea.

But I mean, that just says right there, so you just said it to us that Conway drops somebody off.

Yeah, and I would say that's the most we've had.

Uh and it's uh I think three.

Um, but it's few and far between, you know.

Uh but the butt, but that's uh that's a police service.

I took what Neil asked the very beginning is yes, Neil.

I have heard from businesses downtown that reach out to people sometimes dead and night, peeing in the back parking lot, ask them where they're from, and they're defecating, they say they're from Ashville, Minneapolis, Austin.

Uh so people are coming here.

How do they get here?

Uh bus tickets.

Uh it sounds to me, I mean, my question for Conway is why don't they go to Little Rock?

Um you know.

Um I am I've said this on the record, nobody I'll keep saying it.

I'm for helping anybody in this area.

I want our services to be dedicated to people in this area to make our city better.

What I don't want our service to be doing is to go and make sure that we can help people from outside the city, a transit population that come here, take our services and leave.

And cause chaos.

Build a uh Christina showed it just me showed a video building a hole underneath somebody's private property so they can live there, or use our services at your place.

Um, you know, I want the 21% to be 45, 50 percent.

I want the single mom and dad that's got a small kid that was kicked out of the house to get a job and get back on their feet as quick as possible.

What I don't want to do is have a single male from uh Nashville using those services instead of the people in the city.

And you just said you got to sign up for beds, and sometimes you turn people away.

That concerns me greatly that there's a chance that somebody from Fort Smith doesn't have a bed because somebody from outside the city does.

And to me, that screams volumes of how we can fix this problem.

That right there should be the number one thing.

If you want to make a difference, Fort Smith first.

Then we can help anybody else.

But if you say people are signing up and you run out of bed, you turn people away, that's a problem.

That is a massive problem.

So what Neil's trying to do is with this ordinance is try to stop some of that.

So that way people from Fort Smith have an opportunity.

And you just kind of put you everything that Neil wants to do, you kind of told us Conway's dropping people off, and people aren't people are leaving unhoused.

That's a concern.

We all should be concerned as a board.

Because that is not putting our citizens first.

I want to help anybody in our region, but I'm not gonna help a single male that's here to do something wrong or is from another city, another state.

Fort Smith First, Van Buren, Crawford, Sebastian, it's fine.

But anybody else?

Sorry.

So if you want to make a difference, that'd be something I'd start at.

Thank you, Mayor.

Director Neil Martin.

So uh just uh I was looking for the point in time count, and I I uh I I just found it.

So just if anybody's got a pen and a piece of paper and you want to write this down, you you can.

Um starting in 2015.

179.

And the point in time count is the count of homeless individuals.

And it's not broken down by unhoused and uh folks living in the shelter.

It's just it's just the total number.

So 2015, there was 179.

In 2016, there was 166.

In 2017, there was 168.

In 2018, there was 231.

2019, 247.

2021, 324.

2022, 374.

2023, 443.

2024, 433.

And then in 25, there's 406.

So we've gone um we've done we've more than doubled our our the numbers here, and there's probably some economy uh associated with that.

But um yeah, I I agree with Director Settle.

I think we've got to we've we've got to try to do something and and uh some things, and I think this is one way in which we we do it.

I'd like to make a motion that we put this on a it doesn't necessarily have to be two weeks from or next week.

Put it uh put it second meeting in August.

Okay.

To vote on it.

We had a few people in the queue.

Okay.

Okay, we'll go to Director Rigo good and then Director Christina Kosavich.

Well, I know folks might still have some comments for uh Mr.

Casey, but I did uh since she's here as well, representing an organization that also works in this space.

I would like to, Mayor, if it's all right with you, hear from Ms.

Sharon Chapman if she has any uh thoughts or comments or anything that she'd like to speak into this um debate or discussion if uh but I mean if there's questions still for Casey, that you know you might want to order that differently, Mayor.

But I'm glad that you brought up the point in time count because you all have asked about that before.

We obviously did have a really big uptick.

I don't know exactly the reasoning why around 2020-ish, but I will say we are 10% down, 10% down in the number in our point in time count from 2023.

That's substantial.

So we're trending in the right way from some of the efforts I think of the people that are working on this issue.

So that was the one thing I did want to bring up to you.

And we also deal with a population that is very transient and mobile.

We have people, you know, who come from all over, people who are from Fort Smith who leave, who come back.

Homeless population is really transient.

So when you're talking about us serving only people from this area, um one, I I don't know that that's even possible because people will report different things, and maybe they've been here for a year, maybe they've been here for 10 years, maybe they were born here.

I don't know exactly how you would have us make a distinction of who we're going to serve as an organization based on whether they are from here on at this moment.

Not sure how we would make that look at their citizenship and where they're from.

That would be a very difficult ask for the nonprofits to do that.

Any questions for me?

Okay.

I don't have a question, but I I do want to state that uh I was asking if I could uh speak, but that was actually the question I was going to ask to see if we could I have Ms.

Um Ms.

Chapman up to speak.

But since you mentioned um the point in time count and us being 10% down, I appreciate those figures.

Um but but you did make a statement about um the reporting of trying to find out.

I mean, I I I appreciate the passion between my fellow directors about Fort Smith first, absolutely get that.

But with that, we would have to rely on truthful and correct reporting, additional funds, and manpower to get that done.

And we're already struggling with making these services work and stretch right now.

So we are under construction on our new property, um, which will open 30 tiny home units in uh October of 2027.

So we intend to utilize this for people who are currently unhoused, and um we're hoping that that is helpful, at least that that number will continue to go down and moving people hopefully out of those transitional housing units into self-sufficiency.

Um we understand it's a concern of a lot of citizens, and um we're all working as hard as we can to make a dent in it.

I just think um I I just don't know that's something that you're trying to do, you know, in good faith.

It's just I just don't know how in the world we would identify who is one of our neighbors when I think we all believe that people who come to our door and are asking for assistance um are equally deserving, and we're trying to provide those services to all of them.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Director Savage.

Um, Sharon, I'm I want to thank you for the work that you do.

And uh, you know, for me, when we talk about this, I think it is important to make the distinction to people that are in programs that are getting help to get reintegrated back into society.

But so much of what the communication we receive is um similar to the video, and Josh, I sent it to you.

Can you play it for us just to give everybody an idea of what some of our residents here in Fort Smith are dealing with, and then they're having to pay for the cleanup to bring this heavy equipment out.

Um it had stairs down into it, it had um speakers.

I mean, people were set up there on their property, and they spent it was over $10,000 clearing it out, bringing in that heavy equipment, and that that's a big expense to the you know, the people who own this property, they're small business owners.

Um it was either off Midland or Wheeler.

So that um, you know, when we when we're having this discussion, that's that's what's on my mind.

The the amount of officers it takes off the street to deal with some of these calls, that's what's on my mind, and you know, we we talk a lot about it.

I I know this is a problem that's not unique to us, that it's um something every city is experiencing, but I I hope we can find some way to start getting our arms around it a little bit better.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

There's no further discussion.

So can I make a motion?

Yes.

I'd like to make a motion that we put uh an item for uh ordinance that would penalize municipalities or entities that are sending people into Fort Smith with the express purpose of using our homeless services.

You mean like I'm sorry, Mayor.

Go ahead.

Well, now you now you cause me to lose my train of thought.

I'm sorry.

Um but yeah, I just to find uh those municipalities or entities that are that are sending people here for the purpose of of using our uh homeless services.

And with well, let me let me pause there, and I gotta I want to say something.

Go ahead.

So I made the motion.

Okay.

I made the motion.

Are you looking for a second?

Yeah, I was looking for a second.

I'll I'll second.

I'll I'll second um secondarily.

Can we start capturing this data?

I I believe the that the homeless services providers do try to capture that from the the vote.

There I I feel like there's there's there's probably some transfer or non-transfer when the city of Fort Smith encounters uh homeless with its police with its fire, whether it's neighborhood services.

Is there a way that we can start capturing the data?

And start start asking that start you're question those questions specifically when I know I know there's an inherent flaws there, like police might come across somebody, and then neighborhood services comes across the same person.

So I I understand that, but there's a way that we could start capturing that data.

Uh maybe we could really have some things to to go on.

And and I would explore, I mean Casey brought up a good point.

Could we could we do some job training?

We've we've got Fort Smith Cemetery's Inc.

right here.

Can we engage this population?

And I saw KC uh with folks out cleaning up trash along along that that road there uh by Hope Campus.

Can we do something like that in a uh uh some of our areas?

Um litter, uh uh uh you know, weed eating, mowing, those types of things.

I I would love I this is a multifaceted problem that that calls for multifaceted solutions.

I think that's that's one I would I would like to see.

Okay, thank you.

We Director Good.

We had the motion in the second round.

Right.

We do have a motion at a second.

I just have a question for uh Mr.

Dingman.

Since you're the closest thing to uh an attorney, our city attorney, I just want to I'm just curious, is what we're proposing is it comp is it even constitutional to be able to ask these individuals um to ask them where they're they're coming from and how they're getting here, or even to find uh individuals, organizations, cities, uh or like I said, organizations and or cities that are helping people get here.

Is that even constitutional to your understanding?

I think I would defer to our actual city attorney for that response.

But I mean it certainly is a question that bears exploration.

I mean, like I said, there there have been cities that have adopted this ordinance, but no one's tried to do an enforcement action on them yet, and so they haven't been challenged in that way that I know of.

Okay, thank you, sir.

Okay.

Thank you.

Uh with that, if there's nothing else on that item, we will go to item number three, which is review of the preliminary agenda for July twenty first.

If you looked at that, we will entertain a motion to Mayor.

I need to make a motion for uh next week.

I'd like to make a motion.

I think all of us have heard for the past couple weeks that our board meetings are not starting on time.

Uh we all move the citizens' forum from the end of the study session to the beginning of the board meeting.

I think we all believe that was right decision at the time it was, but hearing that we're here, board meetings are not starting on time or business meeting.

Like to move the citizens forum from the start of the business meeting to start of the study sessions, and so we'll need unofficial uh vote on that, but still keep it five minutes, keep it on television, not gonna change any of that two times.

But we keep the business meeting, run the city, starts on time, and the study sessions would where we'd have the citizens could speak on any item, including items on the study session that evening.

Second.

No, in general, the study sessions are a lot shorter agenda-wise than the border meetings.

Yep.

And so I think that would be a benefit to everybody really.

I do too.

Okay.

Thank you.

So we still get five minutes, correct?

Still get five minutes, leave on the front, no chains, leave executive.

TV, everything.

Yep.

Everything just move it from the first and third, the second and fourth.

Okay.

Thank you.

Jair second it.

Vote on it next week, yes, ma'am.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you.

Is there anything else to come before the board?

Motion to adjourn.

So