I'm gonna call this meeting to order either five minutes late or 20 minutes late, depending on your perspective.

Um sorry, but we went long on our last thing.

Uh so I expect we're gonna have uh quite a long meeting today.

So I want to get started.

Uh and this is the last time that uh Chief Winstram is going to be up presenting us with our crime statistics.

I am currently investigating the case of the stolen mouse.

Oh, we found the suspect.

All right.

I have solved my final.

Okay.

All right, February 24th.

So these are uh year to date versus uh obviously last couple of years uh crime statistics, and as I've mentioned before to this body, um uh uh uh comparison comparing small numbers, and these will be small numbers, uh January to January or year to yeah to year to date, especially during the colder months of the year.

Not necessarily significant numbers, but uh let's go through them.

As you can see, auto thro auto thefts uh for January popped up a little bit.

I looked at them uh for years past, and you can see um this uh with numbers this low, it's not inconsistent from February, say of last year.

Uh so this is not necessarily a trend.

We'd like it to be as close, we'd like it to be zero.

Um, but uh we are uh keeping an eye on on this.

Um as you can see, the trend is still headed in the right direction, and we want to keep that up through the remainder of 2026.

Uh robbery totals pretty stagnant as you can see, the exactly the average.

So no story to be told there, statistically significant story at least.

Uh person shot um see that number would be uh would be a drop were it not for uh we had uh uh tragically uh three individuals killed in a domestic related murder.

Um those count for our three uh fatal shootings there, and you can see otherwise we would be at three.

Um so again, not a that's uh an outlier, obviously a uh very big deal, and there's conversations we can have.

Uh I think we spoke at committee of the whole perhaps about uh more support for our victims and uh certainly support education, advocacy for the survivors of domestic violence.

Uh this incident of three individuals killed in our city uh highlights how important that is.

Um nothing statistically uh significant here.

See, it's kind of spread out across with such low numbers.

We're not gonna see very much.

Um of course um Jacqueline Cameron and Michael.

Um I do want to praise the excellent work of the detectives and uh everybody that that responded uh to the scene, including the uh forensic team, which had to had to process.

We had to call in additional people to process that scene for um we have a ton of officers that are in training and uh to go in and clear that house and to see two um kids that were executed in the in their bed um still working through a lot of emotions on on the police department with with this case.

So uh great work by the detectives, great work by the uh uh victim advocates supporting that that family as well.

Uh speaking of the detectives, 70 plus percent on everything.

I think that 25, I'm confident that 25 rate is going to um jump up even a little further very soon, but can't give details on that.

Obviously, the three from this year have been cleared, closed by arrest and prosecution.

Uh we do talk a lot about the um illegally possessed guns recovered, 21 uh through January.

These three were recovered last night on a traffic stop.

And um, as you can see, two of them are pistols with uh the platform being uh uh 556.

So those are rifle rounds and a pistol.

You could see there are probably 30 round magazines from what I can see and an extended magazine and a nine millimeter clock there.

Uh these uh were possessed by three different individuals on a traffic stop.

What their uh intent was, why they had them um tucked in their uh coats, I do not know.

Um but those guns, uh, two of which were reported stolen and one of which came back no record, likely just hasn't been reported stolen yet.

We're all recovered last night by the proactive uh excellent police work by our officers.

So um uh how many days ago has it has it been now?

So last week we had uh an officer involved shooting, it was the 12th officer involved shooting since I have been here.

Big uh big credit to the Michigan State Police.

They um when they entered into the agreement to investigate our officer involved shootings.

I don't think they they knew quite the the volume.

Uh but they do a very professional job and they're actively investigating it, and so for professional reasons, obviously there's only so much I can say about it, but uh do want to praise them.

Uh I did reach out to Miss Johnson to pass out my condolences to uh the loss of her son.

Of course, I also reached out to uh the two officers involved.

I'm very thankful that they were not uh that they were not injured as well, and look forward to hearing from the Michigan State Police when their investigation is concluded, but it's only so much on that I can say.

And with that, I know we got a big agenda, but if anybody wants to ask me anything, I'll I'm here.

I think I see uh at least one hand, but uh before we get to that, Chief.

Um I just want to highlight that you rolled out I I think it I think the acronym is DALE, and it's uh better screening for uh identifying high-risk domestic violence cases.

And could you speak to I mean I I I don't want to take words out of your mouth because frankly, how you know it it wouldn't really it wouldn't my understanding is it that it really unfortunately there are some cases that you just can't you can't predict even with even with a predictive model or even with uh Right, that's right, and that's why education is so important, so important to get uh uh uh uh victims of intermittent intimate partner uh violence, the education to know that the help is out there that you know call the police.

We're oftentimes the conduit for it, but if it's the first time we get the call is some tragic incident, obviously we're we're too late.

So yeah, it's the um uh um boy the DA.

It's DALE, but but the point for the public is you have a screening tool something else you're trying to use.

Yes.

So the Dale is the uh is the device that the uh police officers on the street use.

They respond to a domestic incident, and um they literally have a checklist of things such as have you ever been choked in the past, have you ever been threatened with death in the past?

Things like this, which seem very uncommon, but they're extremely common in these uh violent domestic relationships.

And having investigated many homicides myself, I'll tell you a vast majority of homicide offenders, whether the homicide is domestic related or not, have a domestic violence past.

And it's something that as a profession we are getting we're getting better at, and uh I'm glad that we're partnering with YWCA in Safe Haven, um, because in real time the officers on scene of these domestic incidents can do this assessment, pick up the phone, call our partners and say Eric Windstrom could benefit from your services, and they can place them that day.

And we average we're averaging one a day where we make this call and we get services for uh victims of intimate partner virus uh violence.

It's really every police department in in Michigan and the in the country should have it.

Um I believe we're the first, definitely in the region, uh, to roll this out.

Uh and uh it's it's great to say that it that it's working well.

It's also pretty sad to hear that once a day in the city of Grand Rapids we are making connections with uh our our partners in this and getting victims of intimate partner violence placed in safe places for for them to be and and the services and the education and support and the advocacy that they need.

So I want to say it's getting better, but this was uh the this certainly incident with Jacqueline and her and her sons was very difficult.

Yeah, so thanks for prioritizing that.

It's dangerous estimate for law enforcement.

Danger, that's the word I was looking for.

Thank you.

Everybody write that down.

Uh community come on.

All right.

So I know that the uh officer involved shooting last week is top of everyone's mind here right now.

And um I'm grateful how you work so quickly uh just on Thursday to uh release the footage and information um from that incident.

Um but I think that there are still a lot of questions that community members have been left with.

A lot of people are um very shocked by what they saw um from the various angles.

I've watched the incident from various angles, and I think that there is still a good deal of information that we don't know.

And so I suppose um the the first thing I would urge um well, I I think that there is a great public interest in getting more information because people are coming to draw their own conclusions from any side.

And um, yeah, there's people are filling in the blanks from literally the the shots, the the frame of the videos.

So I guess my first question I'll ask is um when do you intend to release the um body worn camera footage from the second officer who is directly at the scene while uh Mr.

Johnson was uh shot and being attended uh attempted to uh be restrained.

You want to ask the other questions too?

Oh, yeah.

I I I have a few.

Okay, all right.

So we'll talk about the shooting.

So let's go back to April 7th, uh sorry, April 4th of 2022.

That was when Patrick Leoya was killed.

And when Patrick Lewia was killed, they had some uh videos in my possession.

I want I needed to get as much as I could out quickly to tell uh as complete a story as I could, but I didn't want to trample on uh what I thought was going to be a very thorough investigation by Michigan State Police and prosecutor, and that's exactly what I did it at this time.

So we did a quick thorough look at the videos.

I think the videos in our possession we quickly released, although there's a ton of videos to go through, and I answered this to I think Matt Wittkost asked me this question uh at the press conference.

Uh we released what I think was the clearest.

Uh having said that I know that the Michigan State Police is in possession of a lot more videos, and uh I did contact them the next day as I usually do.

Hey, is there something else uh we can do uh to to help you.

And they said no, we got this and it's underway because this certainly if you m you uh maybe the city doesn't want to hear this, but this from a legal point of view, this is certainly less controversial than the than the Patrick Leo shooting.

There was clearly a a gun recovered on scene.

Um there's nothing to indicate uh that that this is that sort of level incident.

The state police said we will go about our regular system, and um so we will take it from here.

So the short answer is GRPD will not release anything else until the prosecutor office makes its determination, and that's up to the MSP.

But I know that even though there's a ton of of evidence out there, it's uh it's not the biggest scene I've seen in the world.

Um there's not that many individuals that were that were involved in it, you know, two officers and then the the interviews.

So I'm hopeful that with their team, they had a ton of MSP detectives out there.

Hopefully they can wrap it up quickly.

So I know there is interest, but uh so yeah.

I I think the big open question, at least for me, is um being able to corroborate on video what the officer said about having the barrel of the gun pointed at him.

Yeah, and unfortunately, as I as I often say, and I don't know how much I talked about it at the press conference, but those body worn cameras, it's one angle, it doesn't tell the story.

The second I put my hands up like that, you don't say anything.

And I want to I want to interject here in chief.

I just I want to protect the integrity of the investigation.

I know you do too.

So I really do not want this uh meeting to devolve into a conversation.

Okay, yeah, so I'll just say them it's MSPs.

I talked to them and they're and they're taking it from here.

Yep.

I and and I think that that's very important for the community to hear is that there is a process for this, and it's it can be hard uh to wait for information, but it's also very important that we get this right, uh that we not derail the process.

And so I've said that several times in public, and that may not be what what people want to hear.

But and I I don't want to have you drawn into even inadvertently uh going to be a little bit more than a lot of things.

Yeah, and I and I'll just say from understand you you are big on good communication from always happen.

Uh from the uh from uh the shooting volume Patrick, uh back in the day, one thing that I said at that first press conference is we have a we have a strong walled curtain.

Once they are rocking and rolling with it, we do not talk about details, we do not talk about anything.

So I have no idea what they have.

I I don't know.

They've done all the investigation and I said all the information that I had at the time, and that's that's where we drop off and they take over.

Thank you.

I look forward to more information in the future.

I think it is uh thank you, Chief, for for your report.

Thank you, Pastor.

And all of the uh the work that you've provided.

I think it is quite ironic though that uh your first month into the job, what transpired then and now while you get ready to leave, you know what's happened.

Uh and I believe that the community does have a right in all sincerity to explore since 2022 those twelve sh police involved shootings in some particular way, as it pertains to whether a report can be developed uh through OPA that provides a little bit more transparency as it pertains to obviously this culture that we're currently are in.

Uh because we're all accountable in some particular way.

Citizens are accountable, uh police are accountable, we all are accountable.

And uh one life is too too many um that continue to be lost and and seeing obviously uh you know the hundreds of guns that have been taken off the street, but yet in steel um the current state in which we're in and the climate within this country and this culture, and so we are hoping in all sincerity that uh we'll be able to find out more as it pertains to why things are are happening uh and what's been going on.

We've been excited and grateful to be invited to the table to come to to see the use of force training and to participate.

Um that's been you know that's been beneficial.

Uh right-alongs have been available, um, but also something within the within the culture to hear and to find out to speak to the very heart and the essence of where we are uh needs to needs to come through the through OPA, whether that's through a report, because I believe they are supposed to be reporting to us in some particular way.

At least to the uh bringing to the forefront if it's asked for uh to talk about each and every particular incident if that's if I'm not correct.

Please let me know.

But I believe as uh this uh this body um it would be important.

Imperative that we do that uh to address those particular issues at this time because nine shootings I think it is happened uh of the twelve within the southeast capacities since uh twenty twenty-two, one within the confines of the uh the northeast side and two within the west side, and then I think within uh the last month and a half has been I'm excuse me, a year and a half has been about four of those that have uh that have really uh caused us to to lead to to where we are.

Uh we we need progress um on both sides, and I believe that's imperative that we hopefully are able to hear something and find something so we can find a collective way to work together.

And so that's uh that's a request uh if possible for our commissioners to take into under advisement as we uh proceed to the current state.

Any other okay?

Um chief.

Uh thank you for a couple of things.

First, uh let me first thank the the chief for his service to our community these past four years coming uh from Chicago and really appreciate the leadership in the department and having uh stood uh through some very difficult times from as uh Pastor Golston said from coming in to even the last week of office.

So um he could have uh taken two, three weeks vacation off and mailed it in this week and last week as well, but he came in to see it all the way through.

So he is uh a per that that's the kind of person he is.

He's always been a person of his word, and I really appreciate uh what he's done and wish him the best as he uh transitions on.

Secondly, I would be remiss if I uh did not take the opportunity to um acknowledge uh the interim uh police chief that will start next week.

I guess more.

They're working on some tr earlier transition, but but officially starting on next week, uh Chief uh Joe Trig and looking forward to uh his continued uh leadership of the department, having been in the department 25 years and so uh we may not have a uh public safety committee meeting next month.

I think the city commission has it on its agenda to do the city attorney search at the next yeah, in March.

So we'll be hearing from Chief Trig in um in April.

But I did want to at least give him an opportunity, Mayor, if you you're okay with that for him to at least um address the body.

Uh uh, Chief Trig?

Sure.

And and obviously I want to add my thanks uh Chief Winstrom.

Um he had a he had a going-away party and and uh I said at the time the it's a little bit like a funeral, the parties for the people who are staying behind.

So I know you're leaving us with with a with a unified department and a strong department.

Um and uh, you know, it's uh I think it's a credit to you that that it was easy for the city manager to to find someone to tap um to step forward.

So uh uh deputy all uh and I don't know almost interim chief uh Trig uh welcome.

Well those are kind words for him.

I still think he's a quitter, but uh I'm honored obviously by the opportunity.

Uh love the city, love this department, been here a long time.

Uh it's been an honor to work alongside of him for four years as well.

Show true leadership, uh especially during times of adversity, like when he when he started, and as you noted on his way out as well.

So uh he's been consistent on who he is.

Um I'm gonna be one of the same.

I've been consistent for my whole career um after what's best for us collectively.

Um it's no clue.

Things work better together.

Um and that's what I'm up what I'm about, making sure that we're working, we're doing what's best.

I think we do a good job of holding our department accountable, but I have a lens from from inside, so I know exactly what goes on and what doesn't.

So um and I know the importance of holding the community accountable because we all want safer streets.

I've been part of uh meetings and safe task force stuff for um three plus years now.

We all talk about how what programs can we get to try to uh curtail some of the the violence the summer's coming.

How do we keep uh uh people um you know engaged in positive activities and things like that?

Uh but also we we want our men and women out there taking guns off the street as well.

Um as we we talked about the domestic and things like that.

Things that we can prevent before they happen is important.

But no.

I'm uh blessed.

Thank you for the opportunity, city manager.

Um and looking forward to it and learn as I go, despite uh or however long this uh interim role is to keep our department on track, uh make it as seamless as possible.

And uh let them know we're we've been a great agency a long time.

Uh Chief Winstrop came in at a perfect time when we needed a little little pickup, and I think most agencies across the country needed that.

We're going through rough times.

So um yeah, no.

Any questions for me?

Feel free.

And Mayor, I'll defer um the OPA discussion and when until Mr.

Davis comes up.

Thank you, Chief.

Well, so that brings us to our second agenda item, which is the public safety and emergency manager for large special events.

And in plain English, I think that means what are we going to do about the amphitheater in the soccer stadium?

And other things.

Thank you.

And uh I am here just representing the work of a huge number of folks within the city.

So I'm gonna do the overview to the extent time allows for some follow-up questions.

I will definitely be phoning friends that are here representing multiple departments to answer those questions in more detail.

Um but as you all know, uh we are a destination city for a lot of activities, a lot of activation.

It's been part of our economic development strategy for a long time to really focus on placemaking and distinguishing ourselves as a great uh economic and arts and culture hub, uh, not only of West Michigan, but really trying to trying to cast a shadow that's uh competitive with some of the larger Midwestern cities as well.

Uh and so we are no stranger to major uh events downtown, major performance venues that draw quite a lot of people uh and those things operating simultaneously.

Um that being said, we are planning on bringing a couple more venues online, uh, both this year with the Acrochare Amphitheater and then looking ahead next year to the uh Grand Rapids Soccer Stadium.

Uh so we do have to take a moment to plan for those things and add those to our practices and protocols and make sure that we are as well as we can be prepared for how that may change the complexity of uh providing the level of service that folks expect as well as making sure we're communicating with all of the right people and managing public expectations about what to expect if they do come downtown uh for some of those events and activities.

So we uh have called a team together, uh and again, kind of the the addition of Accursure Amphitheater is really the focal point for why we're doing this intentional effort right now, organized the way I'm outlining here.

But again, it is to evaluate a number of policies and procedures and communications channels that we uh have in place and that are well utilized now.

Uh but there's some core planning areas that we're looking at.

One is scheduling, so we need to know uh across multiple departments and also multiple partners.

Uh, when are these event venues scheduled uh and what's going on in each of those venues so we can resource ourselves accordingly?

So as we add venues and uh operators to that list, it becomes important to evaluate and make sure that we have all the right uh people getting notified when special events are being planned versus uh events at the venue.

Obviously, safety is foremost from the city's perspective, so we want to get people in and out of these places uh safely, and we have to think about that.

The operators also need to think about safety operations within the venues, so that kind of segues into the severe weather one for an outdoor venue like the amphitheater.

That's really uh a place that that became kind of the start of this conversation, and we sort of have grown from there.

But uh obviously you have to think about severe weather when you have people at outdoor performance areas and how are you gonna make sure that they are safe during any of those events.

And then the perennial parking and traffic, how are we gonna get around?

Where am I gonna put my car while I'm at these uh venues, which causes a lot of consternation and anxiety?

Um as I and I welcome you all to uh use this what particularly with respect to parking and traffic.

I tell people it is an urban experience.

It is not a suburban experience.

Please plan ahead and take advantage of all of the uh information we are developing for you to do that.

Uh so again, with scheduling, I think we've hit on this, but we do need to make sure that uh all the necessary city departments and resources are marshalled and scaled up appropriately, particularly when we have events at multiple locations, and when we may anticipate also special events uh happening at the same time.

So that is a lot of what this uh sub team and task force is working on.

So we've got uh departments and other agencies represented and working through some protocols here.

Safety and severe weather again.

I touched on this a little bit, but uh we are looking both for safety of people coming to and from events, making sure that emergency vehicles can still get in and around our networks and that there are clear uh paths both to and from venues but within venues for our first responders, and then with respect to the amphitheater in particular, uh it is part of our permitting requirements that they have an emergency action plan.

So the operator of the amphitheater is working through that with the support of our emergency management office and other departments.

Uh, we're also looking at things like uh queue and crowd management.

So uh, like the Van Andel, we're used to this.

People queue up outside of the venue, and uh then the doors open at a certain time before the performance.

Where will that queuing happen for the amphitheater and how is that sort of crowd control management going to be staffed and utilized?

Uh so we're working through some of those details.

What kinds of things can you take into the venue so that folks aren't disappointed that they can't take a cooler in or a small chair, and we don't end up with all of those goods in the city's park that's right adjacent to it.

So working through some of those kinds of things and then getting the message out to the public about what to expect.

So again, we don't have people disappointed right when they're about to go in through the gates.

Uh, fortunately, the CAA Legends Global has a lot of experience with that that in some of their other venues, so they're porting that experience over, uh, and we're all working together on those things.

Uh, I do want to note the bottom line bullet there.

We are also working through the protocols for extended hours at the amphitheater.

Uh the city commission in the years running up to the amphitheater, looked at our noise ordinance, and they're very clear protocols in terms of hours of operation and decibel, uh, but there is an ability to extend uh the hours of operation slightly in the event something happened, like a temporary disturbance, you know, of weather something that delayed the performance by an hour in order to try to avoid canceling events and and disappointing a bunch of people.

Can we just delay that?

So we're putting an SOP together about how that request would be made and approved and communicated.

Uh, then again, with respect to parking and traffic, uh, again, you know, people who come in and out of downtown know how to work around Van Andel, DeVos Place, having uh events happening.

So, you know, we've got a lot of people with experience here, whether they're patrons of those events or they're people who work or live downtown and they get to know what the schedule is and they accommodate that.

So we're folding that sort of experience into getting ready for the amphitheater as well.

Uh, there will be some different lane closures that we're working through, particularly impacting uh 131.

So we have Michigan Department of Transportation at the table.

They are being very helpful.

Also, uh Michigan State Patrol in terms of helping us manage some of that traffic on and off the freeway.

Um, and then we are working with a number of uh resources and experts and stakeholders to again get the word out about what to expect if you are traveling in and around this area and you're not trying to get to the amphitheater uh plan your trip.

What's that going to do to impact the roads that you might normally work on?

And trying to find a number of different ways to get that information out.

So again, working with a lot of pre-existing experience and just amplifying that for amplifying that for the amphitheater.

If I could just play on words, thank you.

Uh really appreciate uh mobile GR and the police department, fire department thinking through a lot of these issues in particular and and resources that they will need to execute this kind of circulation and traffic and pedestrian safety control and resources as we add these events to the mix of things that are already happening downtown.

Um we are drawing off of, and by we I mean police department and others drawing off of experience of opening the Van Andel uh arena and how they staffed up to manage all of that and kind of planning for that and then seeing how uh how the experience of where really the traffic control needs to happen and where a lot of the pedestrians are going, and we need to make sure that they're able to cross streets safely and we'll tailor it from there.

But really want to be prepared and then we can adjust over the first performance season based on what we're actually experiencing out there in terms of the routes people uh travel.

We're also working very much uh, and I don't expect this to be necessarily available on opening day, but really trying to lean into the opportunities for other uh commercial corridors to take advantage of these performances, invite people into their areas for you know a meal beforehand or something beforehand, take advantage of parking that's a little bit further away from the facility and potentially some shuttles or existing rapid routes that can get people then into uh the core of downtown.

So we're taking a little bit of the pressure off the roads and parking and also spreading that economic um development or economic opportunity around a little bit.

So more to come on that.

Again, I think the first season we'll be learning a lot and uh refining our practices there with respect to moving people around downtown.

Uh just want to share a little bit of this map.

Um so this is a lot of work that we uh have about the available parking.

So whether it's publicly owned parking or parking that is privately owned but available to the public.

Uh we have uh gotten this information together and again are trying to amplify the availability and have people spread those trips out and spread that parking out, uh both geographically and timeline-wise, uh, so that we can take a little bit of the pressure off.

Just a note we've got some information here about walk distance, and uh that is measured from basically the center of downtown, which is around the bananal arena.

So just want to make that note for you.

Um but again, we really want uh people to think about parking further away and walking and experiencing other parts of downtown as they're getting ready to go to any of these performance venues.

Uh and then again, uh transit support.

So again, that helps with spreading the trips out uh timeline wise, and we get a little bit more efficiency if more people uh take one vehicle to the amphitheater instead of you know everybody takes their own vehicle.

Uh so there are a lot of alignments that are shown there.

One is uh proposed dash route that will uh is a smaller uh route than we're used to right now, but allows for more frequency, which we think may really well serve um well serve some of these venues and what we're trying to accomplish in terms of ensuring people have a great experience uh coming into downtown and it shows the connectivity to existing rapid routes as well that can amplify the availability of transit to get people to and through.

Uh so with that, that's kind of the overview we have for you.

Uh but as I said, lots of departments here um that can help answer some detailed questions if time allows.

Commissioner Saucy.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Miss Barons, for the presentation.

Um I was going back to 2019, I think, when this was where I was on commission and some of the civilianization efforts.

My understanding that at the crosswalks, there does have to be a uniformed officer, and that is a state law.

I'm going to phone a friend here.

Wonderful.

Okay, yes.

Um, but we have to specifically decide which intersections those are.

Obviously, the original EAP that was set forth by um Legends Global had a much wider berth for the intersections that they wanted covered.

Even with the intersections that we're gonna cover, um, it's gonna take 24 cops to do it, at least initially, which is a significant number of police officers.

Right.

That is that's an entire patrol shift.

So that we're we're dedicated to doing that.

Um that's gonna be a really difficult task for us to do that 50 50 times in six months.

Yeah.

So a couple times a week.

Um that's gonna put a real strain on our staffing to the point where potentially we're gonna be ordering in 20 cops to work the amphitheater twice a week.

Um, so we're working looking at some avenues to make it uh more appealing for officers to work, but but that's gonna be a heavy task.

So um staffing's gonna be a big issue.

It is a state law that it has to be um uniform officers directing traffic.

We can't use um DK security, we can't use civilians, it has to be a law enforcement officers.

Is there a concern?

Um, did you have a do you want to jump?

Um do you all does the department have a concern?

Because I know at one again, this was 2019, and then I was on commission, it was COVID, so this became like a non-issue, you know, is we had bigger things to worry about, but now this is here, and I think this was the concern that I uh especially my predecessor had had asked quite a bit about.

Does the department have concerns if, say if the state law was magically changed, do you all have concerns about some another like not a non-police officer but a trained security profession professional doing that?

Or just wondering like what are our avenues here?

So the the risk of that is certainly we uh somebody could be trained to direct traffic, but the people that are out there doing that are the same people that are working inside the venue.

Okay, and the officers are there to be inside the venue in case something goes wrong.

Um we deal with it at the Van Annual Arena quite quite often with fights.

Uh security officer, they're not, they don't get involved in that, right?

They're the best witness, and they they come to us.

So the the people work in the intersections are gonna be inside the venue and they need to be police officers.

So no matter what, even if that was that the response would still be need to need to be there, is what I'm hearing.

Yeah, and I think you get to the same the you get the same answer from Legends Global.

Okay, want us there for security also, not just uh traffic control.

Okay, thank you.

A coup a couple of things.

One, um I think this is uh opportunity for interagency support and looking to our partners, uh the county and other jurisdictions around the area when possible.

Um two, someone has to pay them.

So um I I think um I recognize we have we part of the reason why we're we're we're we're sharing this is uh the most demanding days and is when we have multiple venues activated.

Yes, sir.

So the arena, the amphitheater, 21 row convention in town, and there are a couple of days on the calendar where everything is happening all at once.

I think it's what like five or six of those days.

There's at least eight, and that was a couple months ago I got that number.

So potentially growing.

Including the opening day on the amphitheater.

Yeah, so we have eight double booked events.

When I say double booked, I'm just talking arena and amphitheater.

It's not incorporating uh 20 mineral or DeValls Hall.

Um that's what's gonna take at least 24 officers for the amphitheater and another eight at the at the arena.

So we're talking 30, 32 cops.

Well, I was just gonna offer uh one of the things that we realize at the convention center, there's uh officer controlling traffic and there's traffic control devices and the crosswalk that we um installed, a very expensive crosswalk there at the intersection that uh allowed us to redeploy resources and perhaps as we learn it's open, you know, we may learn more, and there may be other ways to help to uh mitigate the number of personnel needed.

And if I can, as as we progress through the summer, we're overstaffing initially intentionally because we don't know where the traffic is gonna come from, whether foot traffic or vehicle traffic, it could be coming from all different directions.

So we have to we have to anticipate that and overstaff the intersections.

But as the summer goes along, we'll realize uh we don't need two officers there, we need one, and we'll be able to shrink it down.

How much?

I don't know.

Um hopefully we can shrink it down and not increase it, but that that's what I anticipate.

Thank you.

Uh Mr.

Fine.

I really appreciate this report.

Uh really appreciate the the report and the work that's gone into it already.

Uh I think there's a pretty widespread concern about parking.

Um and how far and how how that's gonna untangle.

So your offices in the street has been very, very helpful on Fulton Street when there's uh Van Anal arena activities along with 2020 Monroe.

Um can't say enough about that.

Um I do uh am concerned about the a um have some of these venues go too late, and especially if we've had some uh under the influence situations that may develop uh in the street.

Third thing I've been uh concerned about is lack of discipline and some of the uh what I'll call pedestrian movers, yeah, scooters, skateboards, etc.

Pretty much go wherever they feel like.

And so some of that may be um reminding people on public service announcements as well as um certain amount of enforcement when it happens.

I mean in the street.

So thank you very much for the work that goes into it, and I certainly advise some week to week uh discussion about this as you learn as you go.

Yes, certainly, and uh with respect to a couple of those concerns, we are working with the micro uh mobility providers, so the the e-scooters and line bikes in terms of something called geofencing.

So we'll be again monitoring our experience.

But now, for example, we'll if there's an event at the Van Handel, there'll be uh zone within which you're really not supposed to have those, and and that is reinforced by them being essentially inoperable within that geofence, so we'll be using that technique to help us a little bit with that.

And and for parking, we really need people who can to park further away and walk.

There are certainly folks for whom that's not an accessible possibility, and and there is um accessibility provided right on site, but po people who can, we really need to plan ahead and and utilize parking that's a little bit further away.

On the working uh hours about four to five o'clock, and so cooperation with Michigan State and clearing incidents, uh be it stalled vehicles or accidents is really important, and uh I know it's a coordinated effort, like we get fire and and police working together now, but uh it's just gonna be uh challenge.

So, urban experience maybe one more question since we do want to get to the surveillance report.

Great.

Thank you.

Um thank you for your presentation.

As a guy uh who poorly golfs, I really am familiar with the geofencing tool and how good it works, because oftentimes my cart won't move unless I'm going backwards.

So I just wanted to make sure everybody knows that that technology's been around for quite a bit.

Um but also uh in your in your presentation, you did recognize the importance to diversify the economic impact of these community opportunities.

And so thank you in advance for thinking not only of the way um those people who are attending might frequent some of these establishments, but by partnering with the Dash, I think we're highlighting a wonderful transit opportunity for our community that's underutilized.

Um hopefully we're leveraging that in a way that we get a new populace of people that uh is willing to take those buses.

So really looking forward to that.

And then lastly, in addition to those people attending other restaurants or venues in advance, hopefully those business owners, as they wonder how they can benefit, are considering the use of their private lots and the ability to transport people over, and that's a whole nother can of worms.

But I really um I I know that we have the opportunity to do this well.

We have the parking, it's just a matter of re understanding our behaviors and continuing to talk about this urban experience.

But well done, thank you.

Thanks.

Thanks, Miss Barns.

Uh so Ms.

James, you went on.

Yes, just we talked about the scooters and geofencing.

I learned on my ride along that all you have to do is get a scooter to go tick tick tick tick tick, and then none of that matters anymore.

No.

So how can we um we'll follow up on that?

Thank you.

Okay, yep.

Okay.

So let's let's move on to our civilian, uh, pardon me, our surveillance report, and I assume Mr.

Davis is here to present on that.

Are we gonna cancel this?

Surveillance report.

So we have a package.

And I just want to put out in the interest of time, you all have a packet on the know your rights um uh topic, and we may simply in interest of time, uh, depending on how much time we take on the surveillance uh conversation, and we may we will want to defer our know your rights until our next meeting.

Mr.

Davis.

All right, good afternoon.

Uh I will be presenting on the FY25 uh surveillance report for uh by way of agenda.

We will be uh talking about the scope of reporting uh as governed by administrative policy 1503.

We'll talk about that.

We'll talk about what surveillance technology is and what non-surveillance technology is.

Uh, we'll give you a summary of departmental surveillance use uh for uh this fiscal year.

We had uh only GRFD and GRPD who had uh technology that needed to be reported on.

We'll talk about impact on civil rights and liberties, and then we'll look forward.

So, according to the administrative policy, surveillance includes uh equipment and services.

When we talk about surveillance equipment, we're talking about equipment that's operated by or at the direction of the city.

Um, the most common example of this that we hear people talk about is droned or unmanned aircraft that can be attached or used to collect data.

Uh, when we talk about surveillance services, we're talking about services that are provided by a third party uh or that result in acquisition of data for the city in some way.

And that data can be used for the purpose of monitoring, observing, or analyzing individuals or groups.

Regardless of whether such data is obscured or de-identified, if that data can be taken, it's continue uh considered surveillance services.

So when we talk about non-surveillance, it's important we understand those distinctions as well, right?

So non-surveillance is anything that does not meet the criteria of surveillance, that's pretty clear.

Uh but uh in addition, there are certain things that we can do.

So, like cameras that are used to record city property, right, to protect city infrastructure.

That falls outside of our definition of surveillance, and therefore we don't have to report on that.

Or cameras, uh cameras or things that we got before March 24, 2015.

So let's talk about that.

You'll hear that the administrative policy 1503, right, uh, is this policy's number.

Why is that?

Because it was originally created in 2015.

So the original version of this policy already had uh some things grandfathered into it.

So when we renewed the policy, those things that were originally grandfathered remained grandfathered into it.

Surveillance equipment that is incapable of collecting identifiable information due to the way it's designed, uh, is also considered non-surveillance.

So again, um the Grand Rapids Fire Department, the Grand Rapid Police Department, and Mobile GR are the departments that possess uh things that are able to be reported under administrative policy 1503.

Uh but mobile GR did not utilize the equipment that would have to be uh reported on during this fiscal year, and therefore they are not included as part of the summary of departmental use.

So let's jump into the departments.

We'll start with the fire department.

Um the fire department utilized the all-tell drone technology that they have been utilizing for for years.

Um we look at this, there was 126 total drone flights.

That is a decrease from the year uh prior.

It's actually uh 51, so that was uh 51 flights down from previous years.

77 of the flights were used for training.

Again, that's 90% down from fiscal year 24.

Uh 15 for recognizance, 12 for public relations, 11 for water rescue, that is up by 8%, and uh another 11 for structure fire flights.

This is disaggregated by ward.

Uh so in ward three, there were 67 flights.

In ward one, there were 28 flights in ward two with one flight.

There are unspecified locations of 30 flights.

Now, training remains to be the majority use for the fire department, but it did decrease slightly uh in FY24.

There's no complaints of overuse or misuse by the fire department, uh, and no drone deployments were subject to a warrant requirement by the courts.

The fire department spent uh $7,581.85 cents on operating and maintaining uh and deploying the all-tell drone during the reporting period, and there's also uh graphs included that uh detail this same information.

So again, we talked about uh the way this was disaggregated, but let's go a little further and look at the way that flights that were not for training use were disaggregated.

So there were a total of 49 flights that were not for training use.

Two of those flights were in ward one, and those were for public relations.

Two in ward two, that was for I'm sorry, in ward two, there was one, and that was for recognizance, and then you see in ward three there were seven flights for public relations, eleven flights for recognizance, eleven flights for structure fires, and then we have the breakdown for uh the unspecified locations as well.

FY25 did see a rise in incident responses for the fire department.

Um, and ward three uh accounted for the majority of the non-training deployments, structure fire flights increased from four to eleven, and all of those were in ward three.

So when we look at the distinction in the numbers, you can find the rationale for that well at uh there.

Additionally, water rescue flights rose from one to 11 as well.

So again, we see the increase in numbers in certain places, that gives the explanation of why.

Okay, then we turn to the police department.

The way we look at surveillance technology for the police department is a little different.

We know that our police officers wear uh body worn cameras because they wear body worn cameras, they are collecting surveillance data at it much more frequently uh than any other departments.

As a result of that, we don't ask them to report on when they do use body war cameras.

We ask them to report when they're uh when body worn cameras are not used, right?

So uh there are two sources of surveillance uh technology that are subject to reporting, that's the body worn cameras, and then there is the unmanned aerial surveillance drones.

So when we talk about the body worn cameras, there were two instances uh reported when the body worn camera was not utilized properly according to policy.

One of them uh was a body worn camera that was activated late uh by one minute and 26 second delay, and another one was when the body warrant camera was not charged and did not turn on during a search warrant execution.

OPA did receive one complaint alleging misuse or overuse of uh the license plate reader system uh to search for deportation warrant in violation of GRPD policy 7-12.

Uh an expedited review of this matter was conducted at the direction of the city manager.

The city attorney and chief of police concluded that there was no policy violation by GRPD staff.

Uh as a result, IAU administratively closed the complaint without a complaint disposition report.

So during the reporting period, GRPD acquired and employed small unmanned aerial systems, coming known as drones.

So the purpose of the use, of course, is crime scene perspective, evidence collection, searches for fleeing subjects and endangered persons, and also overwatch during search warrants.

Uh there are 483 total flights, that's 26% up from FY24.

279 of those flights were for overwatch, 162.

So locate a person, 39 for evidence collection, and three for crime prevention.

During the reporting period, GRPD deployed drones.

Again, that was 483 times.

We have the breakdown by ward.

The first ward had the most flights at 190.

That's 52.89 flight hours.

Second ward had 149.

I'm sorry, 157 flights, that's 42.62 hours.

There was a decrease in flights.

And this uh graph also shows that breakdown by ward.

So during the period, drones vlogged 130.95 hours across all wards.

I've already given a breakdown of the hours by wards.

Uh overwatch, uh Overwatch was the uh largest space there at 89.2 hours, that's 68%, locating a person total 36.68, and evidence, uh evidence collection uh looking at 4.98 hours.

Crime prevention was at 0.26 hours.

Within each ward, time was similarly overwatch, uh, heavier on the overwatch side, and we have that breakdown there as well.

So authorization and complaints.

Again, 158 deployments were subject uh to a warrant that's up from 148 in FY24.

Uh neither OPA nor GRPD received any complaints regarding drone misuse.

Uh GRPD reported no data was shared with any external entities.

The budget related to uh the body worn camera was paid for uh through OPA's budget.

OPA uh paid 1,619,305 and 53 cents to act sign for the GRPD body worn cameras in fiscal year uh 2025.

GRPD spent 26,699 and 17 cents of its departmental fiscal budget to operate, maintain, and deploy uh the drone technology during the reporting period, which includes 17,600 for the drone sense software.

Uh and we did a review of uh civil rights and liberties, the impact on civil rights and liberties, and OPA did not find uh that there was a violation of the first, fourth, or fourteenth amendment.

Looking for it, OPA will continue to collect and utilize uh data that we receive from city departments to determine if surveillance equipment is being used properly according to policy.

Um in our inaugural surveillance report, we referenced two internal complaints, uh and we said we would uh look at those in later reports.

Uh that data uh is we have not looked at that yet because there's still litigation tied to those uh complaints after that is completed.

It is our hope that we will review that.

Uh of course, the advent of artificial intelligence, specifically facial recognition technology is a horizon issue that is being considered for future policy consideration and reports.

OPA recognizes both the benefits and disparities that can come as a result of that technology.

Thank you, Mr.

Davis.

Uh colleagues.

Commissioner Kilver.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, thank you, Mr.

Davis, for your presentation.

I have a few questions.

Um, one, I see that uh the public relations category is new.

May I know what that refers to?

Sure.

I actually will allow Mr.

Dereich to speak to the new category.

Thank you.

Let me introduce Mr.

Direct.

This is Nick Durite, who serves as the uh investigation manager in OPA.

Uh, and he does uh the bulk of the work on our surveillance policy throughout the year.

So I appreciate him and his work.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

Uh glad we started with an easy one.

The public relations category, so they built the new fire station and they actually use the drones to showcase that new fire station.

So that's all that's for.

Okay, thank you very much, sir.

I appreciate it.

Uh second, uh, Mr.

Davis, what does accountability look like when uh, for example, body worn cameras um are not properly engaged?

What did accountability look like for the two instances that you noted?

So uh if there's a violation of body worn camera policy, that is processed through the internal affairs division of the Grand Rapids Police Department.

I can't speak to if you're asking what was the actual discipline, uh, but that goes through the internal affairs department and goes through the uh investigative process there.

Yeah, maybe the interim uh police chief could give me more insight to that question.

Yes, it's uh all relates to like is it their first offense, second offense, and obviously we have a progressive discipline, so like a first incident could be a coaching and it could rise above in written counseling and and vice versa.

So thank you so much, interim chief.

That's very helpful.

Thank you very much.

Uh and then my last question here is in terms of when I remember the uh drone conversation, a part of us getting those, the city getting those was a cost savings.

So do we have a snapshot of what cost saving has looked like as we have these drones rather than employing um from you know the county or what have you?

Do we have a snapshot of that?

Uh uh I'll start maybe the excuse me, maybe Chief Windstrom or uh Deputy Chief Craig.

But I recall the discussion was particularly in time savings on accident scenes, reconstructing those versus manually doing it on the ground.

We have aerial view that save, and we did quantify that how quickly those can be done, and perhaps they can elaborate more on how efficient it is using drones versus on the ground personnel.

You uh explained it better than I could, sir.

And uh yeah, it'd be uh impossible to I mean we could come up with an estimate of how much time, but the uh traffic team that goes out on all fatals or near near fatal accidents uses a drone in instead of I mean we had uh extension ladders going up previously, which were also very dangerous.

So um uh as well as serious crime scenes uh that we need uh photographing, it could take uh several hours, and now we can do it super fast.

Um yeah, with thermal imaging and uh qualities a thousand times better, so it definitely saves a lot of time.

Time saving time.

I yeah, I guess time is money, right?

Um but yeah, over time, yeah.

Thank you so much for your answers, you all thanks.

Uh Commissioner Sassy.

Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Mr.

Um Davis, for this presentation.

I you know, the a couple months ago, I like last month, I was like, are we gonna have the surveillance report?

Because I would say um, you know, can we look through this report and appreciate some of the different categories?

But one of the ones that was most interesting to me was on the use of the flop camera, and it should be uh with that license plate with the with the um complaint that was made.

Um and I think it was coming at a time, especially with the federal government responding in the way towards immigration and just seeing an approach to individuals who you know were quote unquote doing you know coming the right way, and just a lot of fear in our communities at the time.

So I really appreciate, you know, at that time I talked to city manager regularly, I talked to Chief Winstom regularly, and then your department to be able to include this because that those readers are grandfathered and not included in their surveillance report.

That's correct.

So I want to make that clear to to everyone because I think that um that was a topic of discussion the other day in an event, and um so we went above and beyond in this regard because there was such a a call, and I think a lot of things have happened as it relates to immigration enforcement in this community.

And while Chief Winstram has made uh a number of statements, I've made a number of statements, city manager, others have made a number of statements.

There still is a lot of fear in the community about how we may or may not be interacting with immigration and enforcement agents.

And so this in particular was you know really key for for me to be able to show this.

Um I know city attorney's office, you and um uh your predecessor, Ms.

Hitchcock spent a number of hours on this as well.

Um I've continued to say to individuals if we are aware of anybody, you know, I think there's been a lot of in the media, particularly in Detroit over the last week, but if there is any sense that you feel that we are interacting with immigration customs enforcement, please to communicate.

We have said that that is not the highest and best use.

Um there are different considerations, I think.

When again, if there's a traffic stop, we're directing traffic.

That is something that we're gonna respond if we're being asked to respond to things that relate to a trespass on a private property, we're gonna respond.

That is not us seeing that we are engaging um with immigration.

Um and just have there's people who have different opinions, but I really wanted to highlight this is a this was a big deal, and it was responded to in a really immediate way, and so I want to say thank you to really every single uh aid, they're not we're not agencies, but departments that existed here at the city.

I know there was a lot of coordination that happened.

And and I certainly don't want to put um Chief Winstrom on the spot here, but um or or Chief Trig, but um I do think you know there's been a lot of questioning in the community about the flock camera uh technology and um some you know uh the people who are using it understand it.

Um, but there are a lot of let's say urban myths for a lack of better way to put it.

And so I think it might be uh a good thing for us to review that for the public to understand exactly what those cameras are doing.

So I mean I will just say that I'm very clear that those are reading license plates, so they're not looking at uh facial uh they're not looking at people's faces.

Um and that's an important thing for that's like a really important first thing for people to know, and I don't want to get into too much more of it now, but I think uh uh you know, in in due time it might be an appropriate topic for us to just be able to hear from uh from the officers on and and Mr.

Davis, it's not your uh bailiwick because we're talking about how those are actually used by law enforcement.

So I think that can be that could be a useful conversation in the future because you know, my eyes looking at you as a form of surveillance.

So I think that can be that could be a useful conversation in the future because you know, my eyes looking at you as a form of surveillance, uh a camera looking at you as a form of surveillance, uh uh cameras out in the community are a form of surveillance in some sense, and so it's I think it's appropriate to to have that conversation, even though it's not the in inside the scope of the report you gave today.

Yeah, city management.

I I too want to excuse me, thank uh city attorney uh Hitchcock at the time who helped us to uh escalate and prioritize that review uh to ensure that none of our personnel were violating any of our policies on um utilization of technology surveillance or um violating a policy on how we um cooperate with federal authorities.

So I want to thank her in her absence.

Uh the last thing I wanted to do is come back.

It took me a minute um to think about um Dr.

Golston's inquiry on uh another report he requested from OPA.

So there have been a lot of uh reports this past week from media on the number of office involved shootings you've heard the chief say uh the number of twelve or so.

I've seen some reports on which ones were uh fatal versus uh those involve injury.

And I I think what we want to be careful of, and certainly we can um look and see what we can learn from any of those uh that are closed that are closed um from Michigan State Police and prosecutor, etc.

But those are pending, obviously are pending litigation.

We we wouldn't want to want to um go beyond what what's what what's already out there, but uh I think we want to be careful, just like we're looking at the surveillance policy and any violet, we're not re-litigating anything that has already been determined uh criminally or administratively, but more so kind of procedurally things.

I think those are um lessons or things that we might might observe.

I heard the comment today you said nine out of twelve.

I don't know if that's the case was in one ward versus the other, time of day, whatever the circumstances were.

I I don't know what what those circumstances uh have in common other than the imminent threat of uh someone's life.

Um so I think that's something we can go back and talk to uh Mr.

Davis and uh uh our interim uh uh chief about uh how we might um respond to to that inquiry.

We've had several people ask about that.

We matter of fact, earlier this week I was just in a conversation with the the chief and Brandon uh Davis about that same inquiry.

Is there a timeline on that or we just because I just don't want it to I know I'm sorry, I just I just don't want to be swept under the rug, you know.

I know we have other matters pertaining to uh Commissioner Keel go wanted to remind you that I'm not AI and don't have an immediate answer.

Um so so I I think what we'll do uh certainly we won't be able to meet in in March, and so we'll give some thought to that.

And um this is a report we've not done before, so I I want to be very thoughtful about it.

Well, and I also I also want to point out A, that these are things that you know uh are taken very seriously every single time uh that they occur and there's a process and there are uh findings and determinations.

So yes, I certainly don't want to be relitigating matters that have been very that where the where the resolution is very clear.

Right.

And I see my colleague sitting in this chair like a mummy, uh the city attorney would ask him to have any thoughts on on his concerns about any of this.

I would just remind everyone that when we talk about public employee relations matters and collective bargaining, there's a lot of complexities that are more than meets the eye, and and we certainly hear and respect the demands for as much information as as possible.

We also have a uh legal responsibility to employees uh that's governed by state law for the most part, but also by collective bargaining agreements that are a collaborative approach, and we we really celebrate when we have those collective bargaining processes and um enter into those agreements, and so we live by the language of the law, both the state law and the collective bargaining agreements, and we want to make sure we're not compromising uh either of those scenarios.

With that being said, it's important that everything that we commit to do publicly, and that's in a collective bargaining agreement, and that's in our administrative policies, we do.

So I think those commitments we make, we we also have to make sure we're following through with those as well.

I uh yes, Commissioner Sasi.

So trying to weigh out um the questions here and um you know, I think sometimes it's hard because they think about okay.

I after this last um shooting, I went online and was looking at you know, just what are all the stories, trying to remember all the all the ones, because again that was referenced in a news article, the 12, I should say the 12, not say all the ones, and so at the very minimum, city manager and this meeting in April, could we have an overview of of just where it's not we're not gonna do a study, but we're saying, hey, we're gonna collectively show these ones from 2022 and where where they if they have been adjudicated, and just up because I know for me that's reported in media, I don't know if that's true.

So yeah, but uh again, I I've noticed many news stories uh about some of the historical uh um incidents, and so I will uh confer with city attorney and OPA and police chief and come up with uh with a way to be responsive.

Thanks.

Thank you, Mr.

Davis.

Um yes, Commissioner Gilgar.

Yes, thank you, Mayor.

Earlier and our committee of the whole, the city manager was able to give um a snapshot and overview of where we are with that, with the most current shooting of MSP is investigating and then what next steps look like.

And I think um that is what community is what I've heard from community is they don't understand where we are, and I think that is that call, right?

Of to explore more, and I really appreciate the city attorney saying we do respect the call of folks wanting as much transparent information as they can get, and we do, but there is a process, and so I'm trying to, if we can again for community of where we are with it, um, and what they can accept expect with next steps.

I think that's very important to um in this as a public safety committee.

I say again as we did.

And well, we yeah, we've got a couple minutes left.

Chief, if I could beg your indulgence on this.

You said it before you said it uh I think we had this discussion in committee of the whole, but different people may be tuning in for this meeting.

So uh if you could just summarize the uh the investigative process.

So up until uh uh I would say the the day after the uh press availability that that I did communicating with Michigan State Police, ask them what else can the Grand Rapids Police Department provide to you with any assistance, what do you need?

I believe it was at that point that they said we're good, we will contact you further.

We've got it all from here.

They take over since I have been here, uh the time frames time frame I would say ranges from about two weeks to about a little over two months uh max.

So uh where it is with there, I don't since I don't have the investigation, I don't know how complex it is.

Uh anything I would say would be a guess.

But and and again to to reiterate the interaction between elected officials in this process.

This is an investigation at this point by the Michigan State Police, and that means that it is very important that uh elected officials not weigh in and make comments on uh what they think they know or or don't know because it's very important that this process have its integrity, uh that it proceed uh however it's going to proceed, and that we follow, I mean, for lack of better way to put it, the rule of law.

Uh and there's a process in place to do that.

And um the city manager and myself and uh uh the chief have made public statements about this.

Um, but at this point um it's really important for the public to know this is not something that's been forgotten or dropped.

This is something that is in process, uh, and as such, uh re respecting the the integrity of their process uh is really important and not interfering with it.

And so, Mayor, just to complete the the process.

So after Michigan State Police completes their investigation, they turn it over to the prosecutor.

Yes, will determine criminality in any event and the prosecutor always makes a uh public release of his findings, he'll contact us and and give information to us if it's appropriate for us to consider putting the police officer back on patrol, etc.

Um doesn't always make the news just because it's not always you know controversial, but the prosecutor will let everyone know.

So in this case, I'm sure we'll find out when his conclusions are complete.

And of course he doesn't have it yet, so he it's still within his purview, for example, to refer to the attorney general.

So there are other decisions that could that may be made here in the case that are again outside of our bailiwick.

And then there's an administrative process in which if the prosecutor doesn't find any criminal wrongdoing, uh, and then we don't believe, or if there is uh uh any alleged criminal wrongdoing, then we go to the administrative disciplinary process that then's turn over to internal affairs, and then we continue that for determin uh personnel determination and then we have an administrative process of city attorney mentioned that before about employees' rights uh to grieve discipline.

I had a question for Mr.

Davis.

Hey, Chief.

From what I've learned as a citizen member and from the many trainings from Safe Encounters and here and the statements that we make as a city to transparency, are you given access to those reports when you are investigating those of officer-related shootings or not when you request them?

I've requested officer involved shooting reports, and they have been denied by Chief Winstrom.

So at this point, no.

I have not received officer involved shooting reports or or evidence related to that.

So only this one or I made a request for uh any and all records, and I was denied the request for any and all records related to officer involved shootings.

That you've been here.

Sorry.

Go ahead, go right ahead.

I'll let them finish.

I made a request last week to make sure that I had uh records related to officer-involved shootings.

That request was denied by Chief Winstrom.

The response indicated that uh internal affairs was being instructed to disregard the request.

Mayor, if I could.

So thank you for the question.

So as I mentioned earlier, this is the first time we have done this evaluation of the post-shooting incident, and um the question that was asked earlier, as I said, we're still working through the process.

So in order to make sure those uh rights that city attorney mentioned are not violated, we have to follow the procedure uh to the T internally, whenever we're asking for uh records.

And so we are um looking at that now.

I've engaged city attorney's office, and so I'm pretty confident we will be able to work through this review uh moving forward.

Thanks.

Thank you, Mr.

Davis.

And that's going to adjourn our meeting.