Well, it's six o'clock and we start on time.

So welcome to the council meeting of August.

Is it August 19th?

I haven't even noticed it's summer yet.

That's that's not a good thing.

So um just another reminder.

If you need to have a side conversation, I understand, but please take it outside.

If you haven't checked your phone, not to point out anybody, but um, if you haven't checked your phone, please um make sure it's off or on vibrate, whatever.

And um when we get to public common, of course, we're willing to listen to anything that you have to say.

And I see a couple of new faces here tonight, so just a reminder you have three minutes to say anything that you want.

And it's not a question and answer uh conversation, it's just you letting us know what you think or feel about something, okay?

So that'll be good.

So with that being said, I call the meeting to order, and we will go ahead and we'll start with the invocation by Councilmember Shaw, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

So I asked that everybody stand.

Thank you.

On World Humanitarian Day, we are reminded that every act of kindness strengthens the heartbeat of golf port.

Each small act of compassion is like a thread weaving together the fabric of the community we all cherish.

When we lift each other up, we create more than a town, we create a home where everyone belongs.

Thank you.

Um City Clerk, will you do roll call, please?

Yes, Mayor.

Councilmember Shaw.

Present.

Councilmember Jackson.

Here.

Councilmember Early.

Present.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Here.

Mayor Love?

Here.

City Attorney Salzman?

Here.

City Manager O'Reilly.

Here.

City Clerk Carico is present.

Super.

So tonight we have no presentations, which is probably good because we're gonna have a lot of discussion tonight.

So I'm kind of glad that we don't have presentations, but we will go ahead and pick up, pick kick off, excuse me, with public comments.

So just to if you raise your hand, I'll just call you up here and we'll kick off with Kelly.

Thank you.

Kelly and mom.

Yes.

Hi everybody.

Um my mom is here uh as my one of my biggest fans and helpers.

I have two separate things I want to announce and talk about tonight, and she's uh up here to help me with our time if we need more time.

Um so the first thing I want to say is hi, and it's nice to see you all sitting on the dais again.

I my heart gets warm every time I walk in here, and this is such a beautiful powerhouse, and I love where we're going with things, so thank you.

Um the first thing I want to talk about today is a brand new fall fest as a food forest benefit.

So if you've spent any time in Climber Park, you probably hopefully know about our food forest, and it's not just trees and art and plants, it's a place where people gather along the path.

It's a place where people can learn and grow literally and physically.

It's a place where kids play, and it really has been a dream to make it a beautiful wildlife enhancement community hub.

So we've done that with the Gulfport Food Forest over the past 10 years with efforts of planting, educational events, birthday parties, etc.

We want to launch something new and bring something that'll be hopefully an annual and treasured event in our fall festival.

So the fall festival is gonna be an annual fundraiser for the food forest, filled with music, food, guided walks, classes, vendors, kids' activity, and yes, a pumpkin patch.

We've been trying very hard to grow our own seminal pumpkins.

We started with about 54.

We maybe have 10 that are holding strong, but we'll source our pumpkins and we really just want to harvest something and give it to the community in a fun way.

The purpose will go deeper and raise funds for the food forest.

We'll go towards tools, hoses, wheelbarrows, signage, and we'll eventually be launching a friends of the food for us program.

We've been working very closely with the city and thank Justin Shea as always for his efforts so that this can become not just a one-time event, but the start of an annual tradition.

So join us on October 4th in Clymer Park.

We'll have our fall fest, the first Saturday of October every year.

We're welcoming sponsors and partners.

So if you or your business want to help us bring this vision to life, please reach out to me.

I'm Kelly Garcia.

I don't think I said that.

Hi everyone, I'm Kelly Garcia.

I live on 56th Street.

Um please reach out to myself or Krea.

We'd love to have you help us bring this vision to life.

And we hope you'll all join us Saturday, October 4th at Climber Park.

What time?

It's gonna be an all-day fest from 11 to 7.

Great question.

Okay.

Thank you so much.

All righty.

Um Kelly Garcia.

Hi, I'm Kelly Garcia.

And I'll wait for my oh, thank you, Teresa.

Um tonight I'm also representing another great group that has my heart.

It's our Gulfport Welcome events.

Um, this is on October 10th.

We're hosting our seventh Gulfport Welcome event.

This event was created by residents and volunteers and neighbors, people who really care about this community.

And the city of Gulfport, thank you so much, has been incredibly supportive.

And you've all attended at least one, and for that, I am very grateful.

So, what is it?

If you haven't heard, it's a chance for new or new-ish Gulf portions to meet their city council members, meet their police and fire chiefs, and the gorgeous police dog Rhea will be there.

Um, most importantly, you can learn about services and resources.

You can learn where to source your information because the city has so much of this done for us.

There's websites and there's event calendars, and there's all kinds of things that we want to point people in the direction to.

But probably the part that's closest to my heart is that we give people ways to get connected.

So we also invite local volunteer organizations and nonprofits, places like the food forest that are doing good, um, that wants residents to join, and it gives you a chance when you're new or new-ish to connect with those people and learn where you can best contribute to.

So if you are a new Gulf portion, please join us.

We hope that you will all join us.

And if you're a volunteer organization or someone who has something great going on and you think the people should know about it, we'd love to offer you a space at the event.

We have postcards and flyers to help us spread the word, and we'll have details coming very soon.

For now, mark your calendar for October 11th at the library at 6 30 p.m.

We're excited to have it at the library.

You said 10th the first.

I did.

It is October 10th at 6 30 p.m.

at the library.

Thank you, Dave, for that.

I think that's really gonna help people spread the word and and get a little bit more aware with their marketing as well.

So good.

And now you know we're listening.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Appreciate your time.

And who's next?

Laura.

Laura Oldaney, Ninth Avenue South.

This is actually something I had been selfishly thinking about for myself, but then Mayor Love, I saw your post about today's meeting, and one of the things you mentioned was the wake issue.

And um, I had been thinking about this personally.

I would love to have some kind of information about where I mean, Gulfport's great, all of Pinellas County, where we're prone to have flooding in the streets to avoid those places.

And I think there are multiple, uh, there's a spectrum of options from a very expensive app to even just a list of the intersections or streets that are prone to flooding and or not prone to flooding.

So if you're looking for routing in Gulfport, you know, I think we're here focused on Gulfport.

Ideally for me, it would be like an app or a map of the whole county.

So when I'm up in seminal at my parents and it's pouring rain, I'd know where you know it's least likely to be flooding or real time where it is flooding.

So just a thought if people had the information about where these wake areas are likely to be, you know, for the sake of the homeowners, and for me with a low small car, you know, I really want to know that because I don't want to damage my car or someone's home.

So just a thought.

Thank you.

Wolfging.

Thank you, Mayor.

Um, so I'm uh I'm with uh Gulfport Grass Roots.

Oh, I live at uh Beachway Park here in Gulfport.

I'm with uh Gulfport Grass Roots, and we did have a beyond the beach cleanup on August 9th.

Um I was out of town, but uh Deb uh Sousa, my uh partner in grassroots uh beach cleanups.

She uh carried on with it.

In fact, um our beach cleanups and the 11 years have only been canceled once, and that was for COVID because they closed the beach, and then also we have called it off during uh lightning storms.

Other than that, it's been going 11 years every uh second Saturday of every month.

Uh but the one on August 9th that that Deb carried out so efficiently, 22 people showed up, volunteers, again, many from out of Gulfport.

I wish more Gulf porters were there, and they collected a total of 152 pounds of trash and debris from our waterfront area.

That's a huge amount.

Um again, the beach cleanups are held every uh second Saturday every month.

We meet at shelter number four.

Right now we're on a summer schedule at 8 a.m.

The next cleanup is gonna be September 13th, and uh that's the um second Saturday, and again, uh the shelter number four.

We supply everything, uh bags, uh pickers, pails, uh even water to drink, uh, you know, uh gloves, anything anybody might need.

Our co-host is keep Pinellas Beautiful.

Uh and looking further ahead, mark your calendars, uh October 4th, and no, it won't interfere with your event.

Okay, um it's uh it'll be from 9 to 11.

It's our great clan bio cleanup.

Uh, and that is uh co-host is the uh city of Gulfport, and also keep Pinellas Beautiful, and there'll be more information as that event grows closer.

It's from 9 a.m.

to 11 a.m.

And then everybody can run over and uh to take part in the fall of festival and uh eat some pumpkin.

That's all I have to say.

Oh, thank you.

All righty, thank you.

Uh Lisa.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um I s I wanted to piggyback off of what Laura shared.

Um I happen to live on Tangerine Avenue South in between 59th and 60th.

And there's a group of homes, one, two, three, four, five, like maybe six or eight homes that have been flooded because of the overflowing of our drains.

So I know that one house was completely completely ruined, and it's been redone.

Our house, our garage had two feet of water in it.

We lost everything in it.

Um, and it's not hurricanes, it's really rains.

So our garage flooded again this past rain, just just a few days back.

And we've made some adjustments personally to just keep everything raised, but we really don't want water coming in.

Then there's a you know, then there's also access to the house from the garage door.

And I know that others, so many of us have experienced that around the corner.

Um so I know that that's a huge project, and I know that I've spoken with a couple of council members about it, and I know that it would take a lot of money, but I'm just we didn't buy in a flood zone, and the concern is that our like we don't see grass anymore, you know, the front and the back are just feet of water, and if you look out the front door, it's river.

So I'm I'm not sure how that's gonna play out, but I just wanted to bring it to the attention of everybody so that it can be um, you know, especially in light of the hurricane season coming.

I and um oh, and I guess there's another piece of it, and it's what Laura shared.

Um, and I know that others, because people do drive through and not realize, so of course that splashes onto our houses, and but even more so there's cars and trucks getting stuck in it.

So their cars are getting ruined because they don't realize how deep it is, but it it's it's like this.

In fact, I was in my driveway, and we have a pretty high driveway, and my car, if if my husband didn't pull my car out when he did, it already went up to the floorboards with this last rain.

Now I have a low to the ground car, but it's in a driveway that's elevated.

So I was just hoping that maybe we could pay attention to this issue, and I I thank you for hearing me.

Thank you.

Albert Albert Reisenberg, 19th Avenue South.

So in light of the last uh big seven inch rain we just had, um right after the hurricanes, I had come up here and I had mentioned that maybe we put dig we put our beaches back together in a little bit different way, and I was told that we had to do it exactly the same way it was.

And guess what?

It eroded again.

Just we just added sand and it eroded again.

Uh we were just up at Lithia Springs, and I noticed that they had this interesting parking lot where they had this webbing that kind of held what was there, which was rocks, but it could be used for sand.

Um I know there's got to be some steps we can take.

And now that FEMA is not giving us all the money, and even if they are, I mean, how much effort are we gonna put in putting things exactly back the way they were instead of taking some maybe inexpensive steps?

I mean, that webbing could not have cost very much, and I can guarantee you it's gonna hold back some of this erosion, and I know that there's other techniques there has to be.

If we're gonna spend money on getting companies to figure stuff out, that might be a way to do it.

Um I'm totally for that.

I mean, I love our our city, I love our beaches, and you know, frankly, I mean, you know, these the I mean you Tomlison Pond, seven inches of water, it overflows, and we've got rivers coming down 54th and 55th.

That's the way it works.

I've been monitoring it now, and the last uh two years, it's happened four times now.

Before that, it had only happened once in the 13 years I lived here.

So that's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Deb.

Well, first I'd like to second what Lisa said.

I'm her neighbor, I live across the street, and the same thing.

They're being recorded, so try to talk in the three feet of water in the garage.

We lose a washing machine or dryer, a lawnmower, in the shed, we have a pottery studio, there goes the wheel.

So um it's a it's an issue there, and it is when tons of rain come down.

One other point is that um with this wake zone business.

I really find that the only thing that hopefully you would understand, and I mentioned this to Cozy, was that if it would be possible for the people who live on the little part of Tangerine between Gray and 59th, um, that though that street, that part of the street could be closed off with this torrential downpour, and then that could be lifted 30 minutes later because all the water disappears.

On a second note, and I don't think I need a two times three.

I sent an email to Karen um a couple of weeks ago, and she suggested that you all hear this.

So I'm gonna read the email that I sent to Karen.

Okay.

Um I've been playing shuffleboard at the St.

Pete Club and recently at Pinellas Park Senior Center now for about four years.

There are people in Pinellas that are in their 90s playing, as well as a guy who's 103.

This is a sport for all ages, and I wish that we could find a space and money to build just a few courts.

I would be willing to help in any way possible.

I would even commit to teaching, running a league, and please let me know what you think.

I would even take all of you to St.

Pete to the club and teach you how to play.

There's a lot of strategies involved and mind games.

So maybe we could find a way to have a field trip.

And we could go down to St.

Petersburg Shuffleboard Club, which has been there for a hundred years.

Cool.

Kieran uh Karen Schwartz, Dillette Avenue South.

I wasn't gonna say anything, but this has been on my mind, and especially after Albert talked about the sand.

I've been thinking a lot about the casino.

I really miss the casino, but I worry that if we build it back exactly the same way that it was, that won't be good enough.

It needs, I don't know if it's possible to raise it.

I don't know if it's possible to move it, but I've uh this this is just it troubles me.

It troubles me.

And and it also troubles me that the businesses downtown suffer in the water, and it hurts.

It just it just plain hurts.

You know, Neptune is trying to rebuild, and it they're probably gonna go washed away again.

So I don't know what the solution is.

I just I can't be the only person thinking about things like this, and I really want the casino back in a safe way.

That's all.

Thank you.

Ingrid Ingrid Bredenberg, uh, 56th Street South.

Many of you know that Gulfport has a very long history with labyrinths, and for the past 10 years, labyrinths have been built in Climber Park for World Labyrinth Day, and I'm here really to just say that we're planning on doing that again in 2026.

In fact, I'm I'm applying for a creative penellist grant, it's called an impact grant, and this year the theme is making waves, and it's an intersection of art and the environment.

So a labyrinth seems like the appropriate kind of art installation.

This would once again be a temporary labyrinth this year.

However, the whole point of this labyrinth in the coming years, as the past has been also, is to really generate the interest, educate people about labyrinths and their benefits, and raise money for a permanent labyrinth.

This vision is shared by many people.

I'm not the only one here, but this is where the where the efforts um will be going.

For the application, I need a letter from the city that just says it's okay to do this, and because the application is due August 31st, I've asked Councillor Shaw to make that request to see if there are any objections, and then to request from City Manager that letter, and I'm happy to you know provide a template or whatever.

So that's really my ask, and also stay tuned for plans for World Labyrinth Day, which is the first Saturday in May 2026.

So we got some time, but also you'll be hearing more about plans for a permanent labyrinth because we have a potential donor, and um we're very excited about the possibilities.

So thank you.

Very good.

Thank you.

Who's next for public comment?

Amy Hello, Council, Amy Costa, Midtown Business Collective.

Um I was just inspired by everyone talking about all the things that are happening, and I think Karen, you pointed out really well that like we the our town has a lot of knowledge, and you're always open to hearing ideas and suggestions.

You know, when you have a problem or there's something going on, don't just come with the problem, bring the solution.

Um, I think there are really talented creative people out there that could probably come up with excellent solutions to some of these not little problems, but problems ongoing things that we have in our town that would be free.

Um, if we could maybe put together focus groups like topic-based focus groups that different people could sign up to meet, talk about solutions, and we can actually bring those answers to council when you know all the the stuff has been put together.

I you know, we'd be happy to host um at Wonderworks, you know, with the count with the collective as well, and you know, business members, community members, families, like everyone that's impacted, and the the people who have the answers, maybe we can kind of plan some things and by the next few meetings bring some ideas to the dias.

I don't know, just a thought.

Thank you.

Anyone, I see uh yes, Lauren.

Okay, Lauren Stern Ward 4.

Um, speaking first as the Gulfport Coastline Coalition.

So, Karen, excellent idea on Facebook for the signs.

So we, the coalition are going to create signs to protect our neighborhoods, support community action, safeguard our properties.

So please go to our website, anyone that wants like to join the wait list for one at Gulfport Coastline Coalition.org.

Secondly, would love to hear an update on remote public comment.

Thank you.

All righty before I close.

Yes, Donna.

Gail, excuse me.

What'd you call me?

I said miss.

Kidding, I'm kidding.

I'm Gail Gravelle.

I live up on 8th Avenue South.

I'm also on the senior center foundation, looking to see what we're going to do about whether or not we're going to have a new senior center.

I know that we are doing all the.

There will be public comment at the discussion of that tonight.

Okay.

Then it would be the better place to do it.

Jeez, maybe I'd better sit down and wait.

Move along, Missy.

Anyone else?

Oh, yeah.

I guess we can say that we have many events coming.

The next one is Nan Colton on the 14th.

And she is doing Mary Shelley, which is uh she has something to do with Frankenstein.

So it will be a really good one.

Then we also have uh night in Italy coming up at the Maria Center on the 25th of October.

And oh, we also have health and wellness coming up on the 11th of October.

I'm lousy with that's why I keep everything on my phone.

Okay, but I'll wait for public comment for the senior foundation.

All righty.

Um I think Lisa was next.

Hi, Milky Waterfront.

Um, our community's facing two pressing issues right now unauthorized camping and persistent flooding.

The campers are occupying public parking lots and pavilions around the clock.

They set up solar panels, furniture, camping gear, gathering in groups, expanding to multiple spaces.

These areas were never designed to support permanent habitation, and we lack the facilities to accommodate such use.

Last night there were 10 overnight campers in front of my house.

This growing presence is discouraging for residents and visitors alike.

Many now avoid their usual walking routes, and I've personally experienced confrontations that left me feeling unsafe.

Pavilion time limits are routinely ignored.

Since we already enforce overnight restrictions on the beach lot, I urge city leaders to extend these regulations to adjacent streets to prevent further encampments, an approach that's successfully adopted by other municipalities.

Flooding is a second major re uh concern.

Recent rain events, not storm surge, but rain, have repeatedly overwhelmed our infrastructure.

It doesn't take a three-year study to understand the problem.

Rainwater naturally flows downhill towards the bay, but it's obstructed by elevated structures like the parking lot, the casino, and the pier walkway.

The only outlet, Shore Boulevard near Veterans Park, the volleyball court, and the failed beach rain garden are insufficient.

Water floods into low-lying streets, making roads impassable and impacting homes and businesses.

Debris quickly clogs a few drains we have.

I worry that our restaurants, shops, and neighbors will eventually go weary of the repeated stress and damage and relocate to higher ground.

If we wait for a lengthy study, followed by discussion, bidding, then construction.

It may be too late.

So I ask that you please enact an ordinance to address the encampments and ensure the budget prioritizes solutions for ongoing rain and flooding issues.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Korea.

Hi everybody.

Thank you for being here, everybody.

Um, I just wanted to say something about Roundup right now.

Um, since we're talking about watersheds.

Um I got a little triggered uh a couple weeks back because I've been taking care of an easement on 49th Street in front of the storage house.

It's a whole block, and I've been working a couple years on it.

And so um roundup got sprayed out there, and all the blue spur and cosmos died and some of the really low-growing things, and uh it's all okay, but I just wanted to say, hey, here's an alternative to roundup.

Um a few years back, um, the Gulfport Food Forest bought the city of Gulfport a product called Avenger.

And Mayor Sam from the past uh took a mayor's monarch pledge and decided that he would not spray Roundup anymore in the food forest block of climber park.

So I want to put that back out to you.

Um, as the mayor now, maybe we need to revisit the mayor's monarch pledge and then really kind of shore in our roundup use.

I totally get it.

I the there is so much grass to cut and weeds to pull, and I like other people in the city know about how hard we work um to just manage.

And I want to give a big thank you to the park and wreck workers.

Um, but if there's solutions out there that we can at least do little bits, um that would be really great.

And as far as um the easement in front of the storage house, I'm paid to take care of that easement as a contracted labor person.

And when Topher Ross was the horticulturalist, we kind of had this understanding I was gonna take care of it.

And now that she's gone, I just kind of wanted to put that back out there.

I'm gonna take care of it.

I'm gonna weed that thing.

I'm gonna cut it, I'm gonna do whatever is necessary so you don't have to worry about putting Roundup on it.

And I'm gonna use this product.

It's called um uh bond one one-one magic.

And it's pretty much it's pretty much um 40% acetic acid, which is vinegar and sea salt.

So you have to be mindful about where you spray it, but it's something that I just got and I'm starting to use, and I'm trying to work out the kinks with it, but I wanted the city to know about it, and if there's any way I can help to make our watershed a safe place, and to also yeah, just be mindful of those things.

That'd be great.

Thank you very much.

Thanks for all you do.

Who's next for Nancy?

Nancy Rubin from First 51st Street.

I am talking about Veterans Park.

I walk through there at night and I walk through there in the morning, and I notice a sign there that says no bikes are allowed overnight.

Well, there are no bikes there, but there are cars, there are cars with people sleeping, there's cars with dogs attached to their car, there's hammocks at night.

Um sometimes you just feel a little uncomfortable walking through there because it's dark also.

So I I would love it if I mean again, there's no bikes there.

I don't know why there's a sign saying no bikes allowed there overnight, but there is.

Um if we could have better lighting, I think it would be a little less comfortable for people to stay there overnight, or a sign that says no overnight parking, um, and maybe just more night police cars that just go through there or something, but it is definitely uncomfortable.

I'm and I'm not a late person, but 10 o'clock at night, you know, walking back from there with my dogs or something.

There's a gathering in there, it's dark, it's a little nerve-wracking.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Do I see any more hands?

Yes, sir.

Don't know your name, I'm sorry.

My name's Ernie Hean.

Ernie.

Some people may not know me, some people know me.

I've been here for quite some time.

All righty.

And I do understand a little bit about this city, because I donated about 16 years of my life to this city.

Okay.

Back when we had a volunteer fire department, before we got money put together.

And as the CM knows, we uh it took us a little bit to get a pension program put together because based on Florida Statute 175, you cannot have a paid fire department until you have the money to pay their retirement the first day.

We're managed to do that, didn't we?

We managed to get that done.

That was I was proud of those those 16 years.

But what I want to talk about now is flooding.

I've been dealing with flooding for a long time to the point to where we've got neighbors, and I think a couple of my neighbors have already spoken.

We've got neighbors who sold their house.

And one's up for sale now because of flooding.

Now there's nobody on this panel up here, nobody here, no commissioner here is responsible for the flooding.

You're not responsible for rain, but neither is anybody else out here.

Our problem is water bills up on tangerine and 59th, and the uh storm sewers can't handle it.

They just can't handle it.

Now I think we all need to get together and find a solution for that.

Now I'm not a water engineer.

My background is fire protection engineering, so I do understand we do have to do something with that water.

I think uh we may have to start looking at maybe what New Orleans does.

Let's just take a strong look at New Orleans and some of the other communities.

I think uh even parts of Seattle may do that now.

I'm not for sure, but uh back when I was living over on the west coast, I know a lot of the communities on the that were associated with the Pacific Ocean up and down, we're looking at those possibilities.

So we need to take a strong look at that.

If it takes a little bit of widening of wood Ibis Park, the drainage for there, so be it.

If we have to invest in some pumping devices, so be it.

I hear a lot, well EPA says you know something EPA is probably going to go away.

It really looks like it may go away along with what we always counted on in the uh fire service, especially I'm sure the chief deputy chief can tell you that is we have to adjust ourselves for FEMA when FEMA goes away.

They're not going to stop taking your flood insurance money, I guarantee you that they will they will be uh tough to deal with.

So what I'm asking you to do is do a study on what can be done and let us know on tangerine and 59.

Okay.

Your three minutes are up and we will be addressing this over and over tonight.

Thank you.

I I certainly appreciate that.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

Anyone else before we cut off public comment all righty seeing none we're gonna move on from public comment and we will be addressing many of these things.

My my little computer friend keeps going out on me.

So all righty we will move from the um public comment then to um city manager's report please yes and um just a couple things mayor um first of all the city staff does not use roundup we use a young different product will you use your microphone I'm sorry thank you we um we don't we're not the city staff is not using roundup it's using an orange based citrus product so I wanted to address that the next item here is that um in regards to and I know the city attorney is going to talk a little bit about this about the encampment issue down on Shore Boulevard that Councilmember Shaw had brought up also in regards to Veterans Park what I'm gonna suggest to you we have discussed internally and I wanted to share with you we will be posting that as no overnight parking in the parking area.

Additionally what I'm proposing is to put some type of barrier or fencing along the seawall to keep people from climbing out over the seawall till we've complete the casino docks because that's where we're getting the issue.

These people that are wet as they said to you before wet footing it in and congregating in that area what I'm suggesting is putting some type of barrier with hedges or fencing or something to that effect across the south end of Veterans Park to address this issue.

But primarily the no overnight parking seems to be and that was originally part of you know there was a lot of um hospitality employees that were parking in there it was running late things like that but we recognize this has been an issue we've had to deal with the overnight parking in the beach parking lot or and the library and the senior center so we will be addressing it at Veterans Park.

So do we just use the words no overnight parking or do we define between such and such and such no overnight parking okay that's and it's specifically we're allowed to regulate it per the state law it's a it's a public parking area city parking lot.

Yeah and I guess I'm just trying to get clarified so if I come in there at um at one o'clock in the morning can I stay till five o'clock how is that not over because that's not overnight.

I'm not trying to be difficult think we need to know what does that mean so the hours of the park are Veterans Park is a little bit different.

The hours are actually um one hour after sunset one hour before sunrise.

So that's how we would enforce the parking whatever the hours of the park are your parks all close at most of them close at midnight and reopen at 4 a.m.

But Veterans Park is the one that's different.

So does that mean if uh it at eight o'clock it's dark are we saying that you can't park there after 8 p.m correct whoa and that's where this issue this is why this issue's always been it's not as easy I mean you're seeing it yourself because it's yeah I'm reacting for sure because if somebody's having dinners at dinner at OMADI's and they want to park for two hours at um veterans park and there's a spot available I would hate to think that they would be thrown into the no overnight parking but that and that's the issue because your parks have regulatory time it's and that's the only we can rate coincide because you're theoretically you're supposed to be there to go to the park.

And that's why when we don't you're supposed to be there to go to the park not to park there to go have dinner.

And I know that sounds but that was that was the issue.

Well that'll be a lot of fun to enforce well and and and it doesn't say that you have to park there only for the park.

Well, and and it doesn't say that you have to park there only for the park.

So people we are so short of parking, that would be and you took the.

I mean, I walk through Wood Ibis Park when it's dark, you know, all the time walking my dog.

And and one hour before sunrise, that's not four o'clock in the morning.

It's later than that, you know.

So I think it's better to rather than have those kind of specifics if we actually put times.

I if I might interject, I believe the sign already does say that.

Because I was there taking pictures because I've been getting so many calls about these things.

What is it saying?

Uh and it what exactly what we're doing.

What Chief Spearin said, yes.

Essentially that.

I don't remember the specifics other than and we should also remind people because I think part of what they were talking about is people parking on regular streets, and they are allowed to park on a regular street.

We did interrupt him without letting him finish his report.

So it was part of the parking thing that we were just talking about.

I thought we were talking about veterans.

Well, we were talking about the but other people were bringing up people sleeping also on city streets.

So that is allowed if if they're registered park.

Please continue.

Thank you.

But we're if there's any objection, we'll move forward with some of these things to take place at Veterans Park.

And the issue in regards to a lighting was it's adjacent to residential homes.

And that was a concern.

The park was primarily when it was built to be passive.

And that was part of the issue.

But if that's something council would like us to look at about putting lighting in that park, that's we could do that also.

I I thought we had put lighting in the park, low lighting.

Not in Veterans Park.

Oh, I thought we had.

We have low lighting in Veterans Park.

Okay, low lighting.

But I think what they're looking for is more lighting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was sitting out there when people were asking for it to be low lighting.

Right.

Okay.

Okay.

Um I just wanted to address that.

So we'll move ahead with some of those activities at Veterans Park to try to deal with that issue.

I know the city attorney is going to speak about the ordinance he's going to bring forth to you, so I'll defer to him on that.

Uh just a couple other things.

And I know, Mayor, we're going to talk a little bit this evening or a lot about uh storm water and the fact that we we identify the fact that it's based on volume, intensity, and capacity is Chief Han spoke of, and time.

Volume, short volume, intensity, a lot of rain in a short period of time.

The system can only hold so much.

And I know we're going to talk about that.

And that would take is consistent if that's the focus for the council, then that's something we can talk about as we transition at all that as we apply the the philosophy towards the sanitary sewer system, we could possibly do towards the stormwater system.

Um we have also taken a actively solicited a contract to get code enforcement assistance.

We've uh had two proposals, one we've confirmed we've selected that um utilized they perform this task for the city of High Springs, and we're gonna be retaining them.

They they're in the process of staffing up to uh provide us that assistance.

Also the RFP for permitting inspection and plan review to contract that system will be close the permit of the uh request for proposals will close next Tuesday, the 26th.

We'll have those bids.

We hope to implement that and reach an agreement with the firm, whichever is successful bidder by the first of open transition the first of October, where our focus would be to transition to keep the owner builder to get assistance when they come in at the to walk them through the process and then push all the kind licensed contractors and commercial projects to the portal, the BSNA portal that we're utilizing and the firms have been advised that's the software that we do utilize.

Uh Pinellas County has successfully the require requirements of uh Senate Bill 180 required to have firms on retainer to if we get hit with a storm to perform some of the tasks that firm title basin had did they have now in the process of ranking those firms.

So we once we get their rankings, we will engage one of those firms to have on retainer.

And then also um I provided council member Shaw had brought forward for customer service um survey for the building department, and we have had these cards printed, and they are available in the building department for individuals that come in to solicit a permit.

Are we asking them to fill them out?

Well, they're there on the counter, and they we can ask if someone mean because they might not pay attention and notice them.

Well, uh the other item I have this evening, and I know there's different um outlets on this, and you've all read about it.

We received correspondence uh today from our insurance carrier in reference to the Doge Department of Government Efficiency at the state of Florida.

And our insurance carrier has been pretty clear about your participation and the impact it could have on you.

And I wanted to share that with each of the council members that it can affect your state and funding, and also up to due to the statutory threat of both civil and criminal repercussions should you not or object to their activities.

Thank you.

That's all is there anything else?

Do we have any questions in speaking order to clarify anything at this time?

I'll be repeating members speaker from SCR.

Okay, that's good.

Um Ms.

Jackson.

Ms.

Early.

I just had a quick question.

So um Councilmember Shaw, what do we do with these after?

So I uh we're going to collect the information.

And then I will take and look at it, what we need to do.

Exactly.

Offer feedback.

Exactly.

And then maybe even bring it here to see once we get it.

Once we have a time period where the they're actually a time period, right?

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Councilmember Thionis.

Anyway, what you talked about.

Nothing you talked about.

Okay.

Just some omissions.

Okay.

All righty.

Um and I don't really have any clearing I'm curious how we're gonna fix the because I hear no overnight parking, but how did we define that?

And then I hear two-hour parking, and so um, and be then before we move to the next um attorney's report.

I was hoping that um assistant city council um city manager would give us just the two-minute recap on uh Gulfport Connected.

I'll be brief, Mayor.

Um, so right now we're uh uh setting up Gulfport Connect.

Um it's me, uh Rachel and Shannon.

We're going through everything.

We have a meeting with them Friday uh to discuss some back end things.

But the next piece of this uh that I just wanted to get out in the in the ether here is that we will be sending out both in the newsletter and on Facebook uh information if you are an organization or a volunteer group uh that wants to come on board.

You can obviously come on board any time, but if you want to be part of one of the first groups that comes on board, um please contact me.

Um my email, and it will be available when we send out that newsletter and that Facebook post, but it's uh D Mather at my Gulfport.us Um.

So just to recap real fast, what get connected is um the mayor had discussed using a volunteer um service that could not only be for Blue Skies days but also for those times when we really need volunteers.

Uh and so what'll happen is uh if you're a group, you don't have to pay anything, it's all provided for by the city, uh and you can use it to uh log your volunteer hours.

There's a lot of bells and whistles in it, but essentially you can log your volunteer hours, you can post things on your board that hey, so-and-so citizen needs this uh like during a storm or something like that, or just on normal days.

If you have a volunteer group, you can say, like for example, the food forest.

If you have volunteers that need to do certain things, you could post those things on your particular page.

Um and that's it.

It's it's a great little software that we can use.

Uh it also does things like um uh shows you how much volunteer you've had over the years or how much your volunteers were worth, and that's good for grants and situations like that.

So it's a really good little platform.

Obviously, uh the people that are on board, we're not just gonna throw you in blindly.

We will do some training with you, and there is training available.

So uh again, if you are part of a volunteer organization, which let's face it, this is Gulfport, probably everybody in this room is um, and you want to be a part of this, just reach out to me at any time.

And if you forget when you go home, just remember to look it up on Facebook later.

That's DMath or at MyGulfport.us.

And you can just put in the title that you want to be part of Gulfport Connects.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All righty.

Um City Attorney Report?

Yes, Mayor.

Council.

Uh two things.

One, I'm I'm approaching the uh problem a little differently than overnight um sleeping.

I'm approaching it from habitation.

So a blanket prohibition that people cannot live in their cars or use the the adjacent property for that purpose.

Um a separate section involving just to cover ourselves to make sure that people are not allowed to cook except in designated areas for cooking.

So those are the two sections trying to keep people from thinking that they can just live in their car or in the or the empty lot or parcel next to wherever they are.

Um so that hopefully will deal with that issue in combination with the other issue about parking, whatever you all decide.

But this will deal with no matter what time of day.

So we're not worried about night only.

You're worried about during the day anything.

So uh that would take care of that situation.

Obviously, there's exceptions if there's any camping areas or or things allowed for that.

Are there any questions on that?

Mayor go first.

Okay.

Um so my concern about living in your car, because it's allowed to sleep in your car if you're legally parked on the street and your car is registered.

So we can't not let that, but we can, like you say, I I totally agree about spreading into adjacent things and doing out things outside the car.

Actually, I removed the ability for you to sleep in your car.

I don't think we should do that.

Well, if that's up to council.

You get it's this is a hard I I know this is very hard because if you blanketly do something, it's much easier for us.

If you don't blanketly do it, then it's harder for us.

You're talking about park hours, you're talking about enforcement, it's much more difficult.

Now that's whatever council chooses.

It's very simple if I if I remove the section allowing you to sleep in your car.

Because I think there's too many people, and there'll be more that are homeless.

And in if you're sleeping in your car and doing it quietly, you're not leaving litter, you're not cooking next to your car, you're not leaving your dog outside, whatever.

I don't think I think it's um it I understand what you're saying.

I think it's difficult when somebody let's use your scenario, which is fine, I sleep in my car tonight.

But if I sleep in my car tomorrow night and I sleep in my car the next night, now I'm living in my car.

This would prohibit you from living in your car.

I don't want to do that.

I mean, personally, I don't want to do that because I think there's too many people who can't do anything else.

They have nowhere else to go.

Well, if you're allowing people to live in their car, then it's difficult to deal with the issues other than the parking restrictions that you're talking about to enforce that.

So I'm happy, whatever council wants me to do.

If you don't want to see this, that's fine.

If you do want to see it, well, I I like the parts about doing stuff outside your car, like you know, taking up an additional space or or cooking in that.

We can limit it to that if that's what council will.

But I don't think you can do the the the sleeping part because there's too many people who have no other place to go.

They have no money for anything else, they have no other place, it's getting more and more expensive.

Fewer and fewer services.

I I just don't think you can do that.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, we'll go in order.

Yes, if I could you were first.

Yeah, I got missed here.

I I we feel tremendous compassion for people that are homeless.

And I'm the first one to stay even to sleep in my car if I'm traveling.

Because I I get very drowsy driving.

So being able to sleep in my car is certainly a godsend there as well.

However, what's happening on be on on Shore Boulevard and in our parks is a different situation.

They stay there for months.

They set up a whole encampment.

And um and their behavior is not necessarily appropriate either.

We've had uh a number of residents speak to it, both here and calls and emails, and it is a concern.

So that is something I would support.

And now if we can perhaps direct them to, you know, move around at least or something elsewhere, that would be one thing.

But to these these encampments on Beach Boulevard is not a plus for us.

They're there for months on end.

It's it's already illegal to be there more than five days.

They're there for months.

Councilmember Jackson.

Yeah, um, I hear what April's saying about people having nowhere else to go and the compassion for that, and I hear what the residents are saying coming up here and speaking about the problem and it affecting them.

And I think I might just defer to kind of what your recommendation is in terms of wording.

Um if we say no, no camping in your car, and then they're there for that many days, and then they would fall under that.

I mean, if they're a yeah, it is subjective because you're seeing somebody, are they living in their car or not?

Some of that, and and the chief may push back and say, Well, you're making this difficult for our enforcement, and I haven't talked to Chief about that yet.

So we should talk to Chief about that.

Um where's our social worker in this?

Because I believe there are children there as well.

Yeah, so we just can't.

Elijah has made contact with the individuals down there.

What they choose to do is not, you know, they're not receptive to help at this point.

If there's children involved and we think they're at risk, then we'll that's a police matter.

But the homeless issue is Elijah does make contact with them.

Chief Fernandez could speak to that.

He he pretty much works with Elijah whenever he's in town.

Chief?

Good evening.

Yeah, we've made a contact with multiple people out there in the cars.

A lot of them do not want help, unfortunately.

Um a lot of them are happy living in their in their car, unfortunately.

And uh we can't force them to get help, but Elijah does try and he makes contacts with these people over and over and over, and unfortunately it's up to them to accept the help.

Um I know he has gotten some of the people registered for health care and stuff like that, but that's a that's just a thing to help them out and try to show them that we're there to help them out, but it doesn't get does it get them to where they need to be.

So thank you.

May I add one more thing, please?

I just like to say that if we can camp out at the beach for free, I'd like to be able to do that because that's a really nice cushy place to be.

Okay.

So um I need it to be clarified.

When you started speaking, attorney, did you say that you wanted to say no sleeping in your car, or did you say no living in your car?

Well, the way I wrote this is I removed the ability for you to sleep in your car, and then I added that you cannot uh live in your car.

Now that's why I'm talking to council to see what you want me to do.

If you want me to leave the section that allows you to sleep in your car, that's fine.

It's just I'm gonna have to talk to Chief how we're gonna have to figure out how to enforce it and look at that language because the chief is gonna have to determine or and the officers will have to determine what is living and what is sleeping.

Right, and that's why I asked it because I can remember when we had this conversation quite a number of years ago about no sleeping in the car.

And on uh on that boulevard particular, I would hate to say no sleeping in car because I'd much rather have somebody pass out in their car than to drive and hit one of our residents.

So but I think that uh police officer could approach a car, and it would not be that difficult to tell the difference between the person who's living there because it's full, versus the person who's taken a snooze because they shouldn't be driving.

So I'm not necessarily in favor of saying no par uh no sleeping in your car.

I just don't know how clearly do we have to define what living in your car is.

Certainly we we know we have some cars that are just acting as storage units, free storage units, where they pull up every morning and change their clothes in our parking lot and then go off to wherever it is that they're going to go, you know.

I mean, we would not allow somebody to come and park their boat in one of our city parking spots for months on end, and yet we have cars that are doing exactly that.

So I guess I don't know the answer either, but I would not like it to say, I do not want it to, I would prefer it not say no parking, uh no sleeping in your car.

But I definitely would like it to say no living in your car, and then uh that throws a problem back to you is how do you define it?

Because I, for one, am not in favor of adding more and more ordinances unless we can enforce them.

I I've always said less ordinances, more enforcement.

So I don't know if that gave you any guidance or consensus.

I mean, I'm hearing what you all are saying, and I'm I'm gonna, as you were talking, I'm gonna try to craft language that distinguishes sleeping from living.

Okay.

So that while it may seem simple.

I don't want to get rid of living.

But you want them to be able to live in their car?

Yes, I do.

I want people to be able to live in their car.

As long as they're not doing anything outside of their car, that they're staying inside their car, they're not dumping trash, they're not using this space next to them, they're not cooking outside.

Yes, because people have to.

I'm with you.

And and what about putting, I know that we don't want to put time parking like two hours or something like that, but what about putting something like 24 hour or something like no parking on this street more than 24 hours or something?

And I guess again, I think based on what I'm hearing from council, um, I'm gonna have to sit down with the chief and the city manager and try to carve out some of these issues, because if you're going to so if I understand correctly, we're going to allow them to live in their car, but nothing outside of the car, right?

So the the cooking provision is helpful in that one.

Um, and then adjacent use of space or lot we could use that they can't do that, so we could prohibit that.

Then the uh time periods, that's what I'm gonna have to get with Chief with, because I think that's just how do you enforce that particular.

I mean, because honestly, I don't think we have officers that are going through every street all the time, so I don't know how they're gonna know when somebody do we do it complaint driven or uh how do we show that somebody's been there for 24 hours?

And I I think we have to back up for just a minute because I'm not 100 percent sure that we have a consensus one way or the other here right now.

I think I've got no uh you're okay with them living and you're okay with them living in the car.

I'm not okay with them living with the car.

You're not okay with them living in the car.

Oh no.

Um can I wait to find out what Chief has to say?

I think that's the same.

No, we're because we don't need to draft something one way or the other.

You can obviously take it apart once I draft it.

Yeah, no, in order to give what you want me to do.

In order to give our attorney um guidance, we need to kind of know is he going to be drafting where it says no living and getting into defining living in the car, or are we not?

I mean I'm sorry, I should have weighed it and let you said what you wanted to say, and then I could have said and I apologize for that on my own.

Yeah, well, obviously, I'm very torn.

Um I guess I can tricky.

Because like I kind of don't mind if somebody's not being disrespectful, they're living in their car.

If it's but then is that even possible to well, remember this is you know, the problem is when you do any of these, as the mayor was talking about, is enforcing it, right?

And so if we draft it in a way that there's no enforcement, then I think the whole issue is that we've had residents come up and say this is becoming a problem, and there's some fear of safety and things like that.

So I have to give it some teeth to do that.

I think we already know that people have either these apps or they're communicating and saying, well, in this particular city they allow this, or you can do this.

Not saying that you know that's a bad thing, but people are aware of what you can and cannot do.

So just knocking on somebody's door if Chief said, hey, you know, move on.

Right.

And uh those days are over.

I think people will sit there and say, No, these are my rights, and I know my rights, and um so it's really a question of what you all want us to do from that standpoint.

Now, I didn't talk, I haven't talked to the city manager about this or any of you, but maybe we also determine certain locations to allow what you're talking about in certain locations where you don't.

Um would it apply to city streets?

Because I know that the way I wrote it, it does, but it doesn't have to.

That's what I'm saying.

So you could say, okay, you can't do this in a park, you can't do this obviously on the beach, you can't do it over here, but I can leave out City Street.

I'm gonna weigh in on City Street.

I think you have to be consistent because you're just squeeze squeezing the balloon, and the neighbors on 28th Avenue are going to show up two weeks after you adopt something, and then it becomes it's their problem.

I mean, governments were great for squeezing balloons, and when I use that terminology, we just move the problem somewhere else.

I think you know, we're gonna have to, and I think the big issue is in teaching speaking at Chief and other in the past chief, it's we have to look whatever we can do to remove subjectivity, because when you're when you're being subjective is the city attorney will tell you that's where you get in trouble, because my opinion what's okay is different than we all have our own opinions, just we just saw this on council.

So I think you have to be cognizant of two things.

One, it's got to be enforceable throughout the city, and two to be as specific activities as possible.

That's the only guidance I would give you.

Just so you know, I wrote it pretty draconian.

I wrote it that a owner of a lot, if you have a parking lot, you can't allow people to sleep overnight or live in their car in a private lot.

So that's the way I wrote it.

It's very draconian, I understand.

But isn't that private property?

And we can't you can still restrict people sleeping or living outside, basically what they're doing, even in a vehicle.

If it's not a if it's not zoned for a campground.

Exactly.

It's a parking lot or a storage unit, but it's not the way of doing this is restricting areas, but having areas for it.

You know, this area over here, wherever it is, will be allowed for camping, which includes sleeping in your vehicle, those kind of things.

Um so we could do that.

In fact, mayor, honestly, based on the way the discussion is going, perhaps we need to have a workshop on this.

Maybe because as you're saying that, what my brain is hearing, I can see people.

Oh, that's a great idea, but not my backyard.

You know, that's what I hear.

And I think we need to look at it from every perspective, the chief saying what they looking at some of the zoning areas, any of those things, so that we can come together on this, because it's you know, to get people to stop doing this, you have to make them stop doing it.

And so we have to have some teeth.

And the one thing we know is that we've had residents that this is not new.

You know, they're speaking up at every council meeting, and I applaud them for that.

But this has been going on now for probably easily.

We've seen it in inflated number for a year, and as we start to get into the cooler weather, those numbers are gonna go way up.

So we can't we can't keep you know, trying to figure out the solution, figure out I know that you've been looking at all kinds of um uh cities that have other things.

The of course the disadvantage that we don't have is just because they have a uh what looks like a good ordinance on the book, we don't know that it's being enforced or working.

We know they've got something well written, but how well is it working?

And if we can't have any teeth, that just in a way I think can frustrate the residents more if we've written a tough ordinance, but if it's very difficult to impossible for our police to enforce it, then we just have everybody mad at us.

So I I do feel like we need a solution.

Um I'm always in favor, and you know, I I'm okay if we need to workshop it.

We need to do it pretty darn quick because um it's coming, it's already a huge problem now.

I noticed one of our vehicles m moved down a block, so they're not in front of you now, they're in front of you now.

Exactly.

Listen to us at the meeting.

Yeah, so and and plus we still have problems with people who aren't even in their car and sleeping out.

And and yes, and that and that absolutely we can if if you want me to draft something separate for that, I can.

But but I mean they're already sleeping.

I don't know, is tangerine considered a park that closes?

If they're sleeping in the park, then we'll enforce that, yes.

The greenway and trolley market square, and that's why the individual, we can let's just pull the scab off.

The individual knows enough to go to the sidewalk.

He's not in the park at night.

Okay, and that's my officers and chiefs officers have been down there numerous times.

He knows enough to go to the sidewalk.

And also in the hammock man, I mean, I've been down there.

The hammock man sometimes doesn't come down to go to sleep until 5 a.m.

Right.

So there he's that's okay for him to go to sleep at 5 a.m.

That's not breaking it.

If he was there at 359, that would be a problem.

Exactly.

And that's part of the issue that the city attorney is having to deal with it's not illegal to sleep in public.

We start with that.

But regulating where, when, and how, then you're starting to get into those.

And we've talked about this at nausea, Matt.

That what you've got, and then we talk about the ability to sleep in your car.

Yes, that's in the statute.

And so here we are trying to fit something in between that fine line.

I know the city attorney's tried, but every time, you know, we can all play devil's advocate and say, well, this and that, but he's done a great job trying to keep it where he's trying to.

I guess the number one thing is the city attorney is trying to remove subjectivity and trying to give you something that's enforceable.

Right.

And so we have some little bit of conflicting information up here right now because I asked for consensus.

The pressure was on Councilmember Cozy, who I think was on the verge of making a decision, and then we said, let's uh do a workshop on it.

So I'm not in there's no motions involved here, so I don't know.

The other thing is, Mayor, if you want um the chief and and the city manager and I to get together and come up exactly with our points.

Bring them to you and with our suggestions, and then you can the council can decide, check this.

Yes, we don't want cooking, we don't want use of uh the adjacent property, but we're okay with this.

You know, we could do that and bring it back to you in a probably in a 15-minute presentation at least to have council look at that.

That would be fine for me.

Okay, I think that's the agreement.

And that but if you decide you want to workshop that, then that's fine.

Otherwise, we'll have our marching orders to move forward to bring something to you.

So then um city clerk, I would like that on the next, the very next um meeting.

Mayor, I have to tell you I won't be at the next meeting.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm going to Iceland.

So, I'll be at the meeting after that.

Okay.

Um, can we also ask Elijah be here?

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Elijah may not be able to he will have his director.

Oh, okay.

We have to start with her because a lot of times she'd rather she'd rather speak than her than him.

Well, and I would like to meet with them in advance too, so we can get it.

I would like them to be in the part to it because I think it's important to see what we can do and what we can, and the frustration of, you know, maybe there's something that they're gonna suggest that'll help help move on the person or or whatever we can help that person.

And and maybe we can suggest that residents email us if you have ways you'd like to see it be, and then we can forward those.

I would be great.

I I mean we're open to anything that we can try to fix the situation that the residents are having a problem with.

It's just you see it's a lot of moving parts with this.

Yep.

Uh Mayor, the uh second issue is and the vice mayor had pointed out I was to bring this back, which I am going to, is we talked about the increase in the green space um requirements and a taking issue under Bert Harris.

I do not think it's a taking issue.

I'm a little more concerned actually about Senate Bill 180 as to whether or not, and I think I mentioned at our last meeting.

I know some council members weren't there that the county attorney has been looking into uh Senate Bill 180 to see what we can and cannot do, what is considered um prohibited by that that bill.

I have yet to still see that um opinion.

I'm not sure that it's out there yet.

So um I'm gonna try to find that so I can you know move forward on this, which would basically be an increase uh in um in the amount of green space.

Yeah, because right now it's 20 in in our code it's 20 percent, and we're just gonna talk about whether whether it's permeable or here's the same thing.

And then we would talk about an increase if that's the same.

Whether we should go from 20 to 25 or 30 percent of a lot should be green.

And and there's some other moving parts on that too.

Uh when when it can be effective, to whom it can be effective to.

Uh there's uh challenges.

If they're gonna challenge the ordinance provision, there's a time period, all these things that we'd look at.

Um, but I just wanted to know let you know where we are with that.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

All righty, um city clerk.

Mine's very quick and easy, I promise.

I just wanted to remind everybody that our next regular scheduled meeting of September 3rd is on a Wednesday, not a Tuesday.

Yeah, I hope you all heard that.

So it's not two weeks from tonight.

Okay, it's gonna be the Wednesday, September 3rd.

Put it on your calendars.

Okay.

With that, then let's move to council comments and reports, and it'll be Councilmember Shaw is first.

Please speak into your mic.

Thank you.

We listened, Rosemary.

Um, as far as the shuffle board, I will be happy to take you up on that in the cooler temperatures.

I do have a standing invitation right now, but I told them the same thing, not in this heat.

But thank you so much.

And the Gulfport Welcome is a really great program.

I've as a resident, uh I I have attended that a number of times, gives you a chance to meet folks and to share anything that you think might be you know be an you know an embellishment to what's already being shared.

It and it's it's really positive.

So and then the other thing as far as um notifying when there's flooded streets.

I'm wondering if there's a way we could be using a tech system for that.

And I'm just tossing that out, not asking for an answer at the moment.

Um I did want to say thank you so much for the traditional ceremony, a wonderful community celebration uh of the new fire truck.

That was a great turnout, and it was a perfect way to bring the community together.

Um I continue to maintain open communications with residents, both with regularly scheduled times and by individual appointments.

I call it what's on your mind, and um, you know, if you're not sure of what those dates are, please see me.

Um they're going really well.

Um, but please feel free to contact me by other means as well, any time you have questions, concerns, or input.

Um, all concerns are raised with the city manager for review and follow-up, and and you're seeing some of that tonight, even.

Um, the most frequent concerns expressed are the flash flooding for sure.

That's a number one thing, and storm-related impacts.

The campers on the streets and in the parks and vehicular wake is is another huge issue.

Um, and of course, residents are encouraged to report issues when when you see those by calling the dispatch uh 5826177.

I think I got that right.

Um, and and that's that's by advice of the city manager and the chief Ferrand as well.

Uh the other thing I've I've been contacted about, and there's been uh several concerns over is unfenced pools.

Um, and some of those pools are in empty properties, so they're not in good shape on top of being a danger.

Um, and then uh the debris covering storm drains uh were possible.

Residents are asked to help by safely clearing that debris uh or reporting the blockages.

Uh and of course, we encourage folks to look into the Pinells County adopt a drain program.

Uh residents have raised concerns about individuals cleaning fish on benches intended for seating on the pier.

So until dedicated fish cleaning tables are added, we ask the people to be considerate about where they clean their fish there.

Um thank you so much for creating that customer service survey for the community development department.

It looks great.

Um we're looking forward to another opportunity for community connection fund and crowning of our next gecko queen at the gecko ball on Saturday.

So if you haven't gotten your ticket, this is a good time to do that.

Um I I keep getting requests for um a consistency in reporting on damages after we have storms.

Uh, and also uh, like for example, when uh the rain stopped, uh I I did see okay.

So let me start over on August 6th.

It stopped raining at five o'clock.

I drove all over the city, and um and in the low-lying areas, and it had drained off very quickly, but this next one was a very different storm, and it continued to drain during the night.

So this is seriously raised stress levels of residents.

So any input that we can give them on that is is what's being requested.

Um, and they're asking for status of 2024 storm recovery, both for city property and within neighborhoods, status of those that have not responded to permitting letters, status of outstanding code enforcement letter responses or resolutions, and I raise these as communication reduces rumors and frustration of residents.

A brief report is requested at each meeting or if at least every other meeting.

Um I had the opportunity to end the to attend the Florida League of Cities Annual Conference.

I want to thank you so much for that.

There were two general sessions, each with an excellent keynote speaker.

There was well over 100 exhibitors, constant workshops and sessions, and countless opportunities to talk with mayors, council members, commissioners, and city managers from other cities, which allowed me to learn about their operations and practices.

And you know, it's it's always helpful to hear what other communities are doing.

Not that those will be applicable here, but you know, all that information is valuable.

Um I'm going to talk about a couple of the sessions shortly, not all of them tonight.

It's too much in one night for you, but I will be reporting on those.

Uh but there was AI in action, uh veterans of the dais best practices from experienced leaders, um, marketing your city, story strategies, and spotlight moments inside the process, navigating Florida's legislative landscape.

And by the way, the speaker started out by saying what the hell is going on.

So that gave us a taste for what was coming already.

Um, emotional intelligence for effective public leadership, and as I said, I will do reports on all of those over time, and we will have those on online as well.

Um the first session that that I attended was the joint legislative meeting communicating the importance of property taxes.

Um there were legislative consultants, there was uh chief of legislative affairs, there was a House of Representative speaking.

Um she was the primary speaker if I recall correctly.

And uh she said this is a very important topic for us to become very aware of.

Um if Florida were to eliminate property taxes, it would be one of the biggest shifts in the state's financial structure in decad decades.

Property taxes are for the main fund are the main funding source for local governments, fire departments, police, libraries, parks, infrastructure, maintenance, and public schools, and I believe that those are all very important to us.

Removing them would create serious challenges and ripple effects.

Uh the greatest concern is that if it comes to a vote, voters may choose to eliminate property taxes without fully understanding the serious consequences for all of those.

Um the speakers encouraged everyone to start having discussions regarding this possibility now.

Um, the following um the one of the points that that they brought up is why are they working on this when insurance is really a very top concern of on all of our minds here, and they went into actual statistics on that.

Um they also talked about that what what would happen is that it would it would just be a shift of where those funds came from if they tried to move it from property taxes.

So again, I I can't be here to tell you how to vote, but I can tell you to be here to pay attention and to be aware and learn all you can.

Um there's a lot of information online, but we'll have to see what they're going to be doing with that.

The next speaker I'm going to talk about was he was a former litigator and now senior advisor and DOGE team lead with the executive office of Governor Stantis, and he presented on the state's DOGE initiative of the Department of Government Efficiency.

Uh he noted that the rise in federal and state government spending, highlighting that Florida has reduced its federal debt by 40% and maintains one of the lowest ratios of state government workers to residents.

So it sounds like we're doing pretty well.

But nevertheless, they're going to focus on things like significant budget increases, what they perceive as overspending, waste and fraud, contracting activities, personnel compensation, DEI leg initiatives, environmental and climate-related projects, and use of city funds for private enterprises.

And this isn't all they're going to be focusing on.

I'm just giving you a highlight.

He underscored that the state views such access as an entitlement, and all requests must be met promptly.

He emphasized transparency and warned of the consequences of withholding or altering information.

And their enforcement authority includes CFO subpoenas, fines of a thousand per instance of noncompliance, potential litigation involved in Department of Justice attorneys, and in his remarks, he cautions cautioned against allowing ideologies and DID or scientific ideas relating to things like climate change to drive local spending decisions, adding that Doge would be reviewing such expenditures closely, and much of that is a quote.

And in his remarks, he cautions cautioned against allowing ideologies and DI DEI or scientific ideas relating to things like climate change to drive local spending decisions, adding the doge would be reviewing such expenditures closely, and much of that is a quote.

The takeaway is how important it is for all to pay attention.

And by the way, if you ever went to the principal's office, I didn't, but I can imagine, but that's what it felt like.

Thank you.

Yes, please.

Okay, my update is related to the um request for virtual public comment.

Uh the city clerk and I have found a solution for that, which embeds into our granite software that we use right now for the agendas that you have up there.

So you'll we're gonna pay for a solution.

It's about $1,800 for the uh yearly subscription to add to our to what we have, and that will allow for any virtual public comments to be automatically added to the agenda, so you guys can all see them as well.

Thanks that's all for me.

So it'll be on the uh agenda, not in advance because what the agenda comes out on the Friday.

She might have more details.

Okay.

So we would set an actual deadline.

So depending on what what time you set, it would actually attach itself to the agenda for record keeping purposes.

So they would have the ability because it's out there and it would attach itself to this item or to the agenda itself.

So when you guys are looking at the agenda through your I legislate program, you would be able to see up until a certain point any any comments that people have put on each agenda item.

So, like if the agenda comes out, for instance, like at 10 o'clock Friday morning, would we have till say sometime like five o'clock Monday afternoon for them to attach things to that?

Correct.

Because they won't know before that what's going to be on the agenda.

Correct.

Okay.

And then everybody can see their comment if they pull it up, um, pull up the agenda off of the city website.

I believe so, but I have to check into that.

There's still some little things I have to figure out as to the cutoff time, how exactly that's going to work technically.

I would need to get with Dave.

Okay.

And the other thing that goes through my mind is because if they start making comments, I'm I'm seeing uh fight uh Facebook fights.

The next person can't comment on person's comment above that.

No, ma'am.

Okay.

It's like an email almost uh just writing a small blurb it gives you a number of characters that you can that you have to abide by, so you can't write a 20-minute paragraph.

Um, so it gives you a number of characters to put in there, and then I mean, I guess okay.

I'm sorry, I just thought of one more thing.

We've been really clear on the way we expect respect and we show respect at our meetings.

How will that be controlled?

I mean, if somebody wants to come on there and say, I think y'all are the scum of the earth, does that get to stay on there?

I'm the advanced because we wouldn't let them do that here.

No, okay.

I would not let that through.

It would be kept, it would be on file, it would be a public record.

Okay, but no, I would not attach that, just like if you're not commenting on Facebook about something that pertains to what we've posted.

Okay.

Thanks for answering.

Anything else?

That's all from me.

All righty.

I'm all set.

Um, council member shaw covered a couple of mine, so thank you.

Thank you.

Alrighty.

Okay.

So I went to the same meeting, but first I want to address some of the things that came up in public comment.

And I and I like your idea.

Hendrix, I mean Kendrick's in in uh public works loves mapping and GIS.

And probably if Dave gave him a link to some map thing, I bet he'd have a wonderful time putting together the street flooding thing.

He loves that stuff.

Um the beach sand retention.

We were we are planning to put in a system of sand retention system.

In my opinion, we should have put that first and then put the sand.

But I was told that they were gonna put the sand in, then they were gonna move it so that they could put this retention system in and then put the sand back, but of course it washed away before we could do that.

So there is a plan to put a retention system in to keep the sand.

Shuffle board, love shuffle board, good idea.

Um the idea about topics.

If we make a group, like say we did the charter review committee.

If we make a group, then they're subject to sunshine laws, and it becomes much more official, it has to be public record, and and somebody has to be there to take notes.

But citizens could make their own groups.

So say the citizens wanted to talk about parking.

You could get together, hash out all different kinds of ideas about parking, and then come and present to us, and that way you're not subjected to the same constraints, and it would be much more it would much be enjoyable to be on that committee if you didn't have all this other stuff you have to do.

So I totally encourage that.

And it could be on any topic, you know, and you could say that you're representing X number of people or whatever, and they could even all talk about it.

So I think that's a great idea.

Um you talked about remote public comment and awake sounds.

I definitely want to see updates on permitting at every meeting.

Um this has been such a big issue for us, and we made spent so much time at the beginning that I think we really need to have those at every meeting.

You know, how the permitting department in general is doing, how our our proposals for subcontractors are doing, and how we're doing on the people who haven't responded or put in for a permit, all of those things.

Um the fire truck event was fabulous.

Thank you very much.

Flora loved it, had a great time.

Um and I had a question has a casino ever flooded before?

Not that I'm aware of.

Okay.

Somebody had asked me about that.

Um, I think that addresses everything that I'm able to do, and certainly the wake zones, and I hope we ordered quite a few of those signs because we're gonna need them in a lot of places because it was really bad that weekend.

My street had two feet, so I get it.

Um so I was at the same conference with with Marlene, and um went to some of the same um sessions, but not all of them.

And I was on um a session about um after the flooding and and how different communities are doing after the flooding, all of which you pretty know was pretty much know what's going on.

But the other people were from Longboat Key, Treasure Island, and I forget the name of the town in the Big Bend area.

And um compared to them, we were lucky that we didn't have to move tons of sand off our streets before we could even get or clear a bridge before we could even get back to our city.

So we had that advantage.

Um but we talked a lot, and permitting was an issue for everybody.

Um, everybody was overwhelmed and there was a lot of confusion.

Um but they suggested one thing that was really interesting is to build relations with cities that are in very different areas.

So if we if we get something that happens here that overwhelms us, maybe we can call on somebody in Sanford, for instance, that isn't affected and could send us a permitting person, and vice versa.

If they get affected, then we could send them a permitting person.

So I thought that was a great idea.

Um they also were talking about in one city, and we didn't really use dumpsters, but about using bags instead of dumpsters because they were way easier to um deal with, and um, and they encouraged Sanibel had an amazing recovery, and they had a really hard time, they were really wiped out.

And the woman who's the mayor of Sanibel is now the president of the Florida League of Cities, and I met with her at one of the mayor things that you didn't go to, and she's totally willing to either come here or she suggested staff to go to Sanibel and find out what they did and the things that they found to be effective and what wasn't effective.

Um stormwater systems clearly is something we need to work on.

Um, you know, where people go, you know, and I think this portal for volunteers could be a good place to people, especially people who are snowbirds and not here if something happens, because that's a time of year it would be usually to be able to offer their homes either to anybody or at least especially to friends, so that they could do that because somebody did that for me and it made all the difference.

Um then again, the budget, big deal.

This is really a priority for the the um governor.

There's some people that want to increase the sales tax to make it make up for this, but that's a really regressive tax, and so that's a really bad idea.

And but the governor is really keen on this, and to be aware that they're not talking about eliminating all property tax, just homesteaded properties, and they're not talking about commercial right now.

So that means the burden would be on commercial properties and non-homesteaded properties, because that's all they're talking about right now, is homesteaded places.

You know, how much is it for water, for electricity, for food.

So compare the services you get for how much it really is a month, and and to think about that.

And there'll be a I'm sure a lot more that comes out in the in the press and everything about that.

And renters are particularly disadvantaged because their properties are not homesteaded because you can't homestead a place that's a rental unit.

So they're going to be more disadvantaged.

And if if we lose the ability to have as many police and fire and stuff, watch what happens with our home insurance.

You know, if you can't have good service, that'll go up too.

Anyway, so that was about that.

And the AI, that was a really good session.

And there's some people that are using it for permitting a lot, especially for totally doing a site plan reviews totally by AI and employee policies.

That's another good thing.

Another city was using Uber as public transportation and saving a bundle compared to being, and we're part of PSTA that comes through here.

And we have that was it, Gecko.

Yeah, anyway, and and and there's freebie on the beaches that they that we've talked about here before.

But they said that was so much more effective and so much more cost effective.

It and people loved it.

And yeah, so those were some of the main takeaways.

But definitely a good place that we could use AI would be in permitting.

And um, yeah.

Okay.

And then Doge, she pretty much went over all that.

Um I went to one about speeding in school zones and left something with the city manager about they instead of like the the camera lights.

This is an infrared thing that just takes pictures of all the cars going by, and you can usually do it either for 24 hours and have a different speed limit for outside of school times, and they can monitor all that and they do the ticketing and everything.

It doesn't cost us anything.

It's a hundred dollar ticket, and they take a portion and portions go to the school and portions go to different places, but their portion comes out of that ticket, and we still would make some revenue, and it would help keep kids safe.

Um the legislative process, it's difficult.

It's really difficult.

And you know, I I had somebody come and talk at a town hall, and he brought this up as well.

Um pretty much the only thing that like the Florida in this case of Florida League can do, and often just residents can do, is make bills a little better.

It's pretty hard to stop them all together, although there were several things like sovereign immunity, which is the amount that people can sue the cities for that didn't go anywhere, and they were trying to take away the ability to have business taxes, and that didn't go anywhere.

Um and something they were doing with um CRAs.

What I always forget what that stands for.

Community redevelopment.

Um they were trying to get rid of those too, and those so some of them didn't pass because they got enough feedback from people to see that it was really gonna have negative impacts that they maybe hadn't been considering because another thing is compared to past past years, so many of the people in the legislature have not been in local government.

So, you know, like for instance, Linda Cheney, who's our rep, she was a commissioner on St.

Pete Beach.

So somebody like her knows sometimes better the impacts that something will have.

Doesn't mean that she might not sponsor something you don't like, but at least many of them just don't have a clue.

So they listen to lobbyists or special interests and think, oh yeah, we'll go for that, not realizing the impact it's gonna have, especially on small communities.

Um contacting your legislatures, really important, and they um mentioned going to they they have a um a group where all of the um legislatures for an area, and it could be for all of Pinellas County, so there'll be ones that don't directly represent us, but they have meetings once a year usually, and good thing to go to because then you can let them know the things that are important because they keep talking about like property tax and not dealing with insurance, and insurance is what everybody wants something to happen, and there are things they can do, and they're just choosing not to do it, and to um let the insurance companies do whatever they want.

So those were my things.

Um thank you.

Okay.

I really like that we get to do uh council comments right now while we still have some of you here because it gives us an opportunity to actually respond to some of the issues that you raise.

So uh here's I have half of the my time's gonna be spent on the things I wanted to tell you, and half is gonna be responding to the things you said.

Um when somebody said, I don't know if you know it or not, and they start talking about flooding.

I don't think there's a single person in the city of Gulport that is not thinking day and night drainage, drainage, drainage.

Okay, I can tell you I'm not sleeping because I'm thinking drainage, drainage, drainage, and how are we going to address it?

And if you'll stay for the discussion later today, you're going to see.

I can't tell you what the council's gonna do because I can only speak for myself, but I can't imagine anything in this city that's more important and more needing of money right now, though I think we have another one that we're gonna also talk about today.

Okay, I was out of town, I was shocked when by the time I got to the internet and I saw flooding without there being any, you know, uh tremendous name storm, like an error and you know, to um to see all the flooding that took place, and no, no one needs to send me any more photos.

I have photos out the wazoo, but I will tell you of the 75 emails that I had when I got back that I needed to respond to 70 of them were about drainage.

So, yes, we're with you.

I think we're with you, okay.

I'm with you.

Uh second thing.

Um, when somebody says it doesn't take three years to do a study, boy, do I agree with that.

I can't comprehend how it can take three hours to do a study.

But I also will tell you that I'm not smart enough to comprehend how you coordinate three different watersheds in one city together to make a grand plan so we're not just fixing this problem and creating that problem.

And that's what I think is taking so doggone long.

The good news is we understand these studies are done, and now they're working on putting everything back to for us for our presentation in the fall, which I say fall is August, but I'm told I'm wrong.

Um December.

Um, but the other thing is is that that is these studies are so important because we have a lot of people offering us help.

Thank you, we appreciate that.

But these are the studies that we had to do, the vulnerability and the watershed study, so that we will then that's like the first step for us to be eligible for grants, okay.

Also, the engineering firms that are doing these studies, okay, they want our work.

When they come to us, they're going to give us the solutions, probably from this budget to this budget.

They're going to give it to us, but they're also very much aware of grants that are out there, and they're going to be assisting us through that process as well.

More on this later tonight.

What we're not going away from this.

Somebody throws out, well, why don't you see what New Orleans does did?

Great idea.

Do you realize that myself and quite a few uh people I see in the audience here tonight?

They were at the Tampa Bay Resiliency Planning Council.

That's exactly what they're doing at that meeting that was held at Stetson.

They were talking, they talked to both folks from New Orleans and people from Virginia.

Was it Virginia City?

Okay.

Chesapeake Bay.

Okay.

About what they were dealing with and how they attacked, and they talked about you know, taking almost 10 years to develop a whole plan on how to get their entire community working together.

Well, Tampa Bay Resiliency plans to do this in four years, okay?

So there's meetings out there, we're attending them, we're listening, we're learning.

I mean, when they want to give us guidance, we're gonna listen to everything that everybody has to say.

The fourth thing, when people talk about doing focus groups, that is said it would be such an effective use of our time too.

If you got together with what's your hubbub and you wanted to try and solve some of that, and then one person comes up and talks about that instead of maybe four or five, that's great.

I think this council is very, very receptive to ideas, and like um Councilmember Thanos or Vice Mayor Thanos said, you know, you're not under sunshine laws when you decide to do that.

I'm also very proud to say I'm a big believer in volunteering and organizing and not looking to our government to do everything.

And when you heard the people tonight, we had four different groups come up and tell us what they're doing that are 100% volunteers.

That was tonight.

I know of at least another four other groups that are working on other facets.

Um all is volunteers.

We're a small community, and that I mean it when I say community.

And when we get to the parking thing, if I lived on Shore Boulevard, I'd be going crazy.

I know it.

Okay.

I think we need to move on this as quickly as we can.

You know, I I don't know what the official saying is, but there's a saying like, you know, the only thing worse than making a mistake is not doing anything.

I mean, I would rather move forwards with something, because we've been talking about it for a while, and if it doesn't work, we can always take and go to plan B.

I mean, there's always a plan B if plan A doesn't work.

But I feel like we've got too many residents, and as we come into the um warmer or cooler season, we're gonna have more people uh from up north coming down here, and this is all this is a whole lifestyle now.

I mean, we all have empathy and can sympathize with our folks that are homeless at one degree, but the ones who have chosen to live this lifestyle at our expense are not necessarily the folks that we want living on our beaches.

Um couple other things, then that I just wanted to share with you.

Linda Cheney was supposed to be here tonight.

Okay, not only was she going to present us a check, but she was also going to give us a real nice overview of all the bills that were recently passed at a state level.

Her husband broke his hip and it got postponed.

So just so you know, because I mentioned it before that she would be here.

The second thing is just since I've been back in town, I realize I've actually seen two boats using the dock that we provided for them in the marina.

I hadn't seen anybody using it, but I did see some using it now.

And if we're gonna start making it tougher and tougher for them to wet foot, maybe more and more will start using the marina floating dock with lights and a camera and some limited parking that we're agreed to give them months ago at this point.

Rain barrels, thanks to everybody who came out.

It was extremely well attended class.

I was able to negotiate that price down to 20 dollars for a rain barrel.

Um we uh we purchased 50 on the front end.

I have to go back and get 35 more, and that's just for the folks who attended the class.

Okay.

So I'm just saying every little bit helps.

So now we've got it.

We'll have at least 85 more rain barrels out there collecting water off the rooftops.

Um I do have a date now.

My next class, not that I'm teaching the class, but that I'm organizing, and it'll be again with Melissa West, who did a fantastic job.

It will be on rain gardens.

She's telling me that every one of us, no matter how small our yard is, we can do a rain garden and keep more water off the streets by doing it.

A rumor that what people were at my house the other day get telling me this that uh neighborly care was no longer providing meals five days a week at the senior center.

And I'm going, I don't think that's true.

I don't think well, they were adamant in telling me that I was wrong and they were right.

Well, I have confirmed it tonight.

That is not true.

There was apparently an announcement that they might have to go to two days a week.

Um, I think that got overruled by the powers that be, whoever that is, it never actually went into effect.

So we are still serving five meals a week at the senior center, and I wanted everybody to know that.

Um Dave Mather touched a little bit on a Golf Port Connected, our new software program.

He's gonna actually give us a presentation at the October 7th meeting, so everybody's gonna understand better how it's gonna work.

So all of you people who want to organize and jumped in after the hurricanes, there's gonna be a much easier way for us to put together the wants and the needs.

And I'm really excited to hear about that.

And I know quite a few groups have already signed up and more will be signing up uh to participate in that.

Um I'm gonna talk about 2050 later.

That's it, thank you.

All righty, with that then, uh City Clerk, can we move on to consent?

Consider approval of meeting minutes from workshop meeting held July 22nd, 2025, and city council meeting held August 5th, 2025.

Motion to approve.

I second.

Okay, I just wanted to point out if anybody caught it.

Uh our city clerk is using a audio system now, I guess.

And when she was speaking into it and she said trolley square, some of you may see it in the notes if you read the minutes, it said Charlie Square.

Okay.

It has been corrected.

It's been corrected, but I tell you that in case you read it and saw that it said trolley square, it has been corrected.

Okay.

That's a Freudian slip.

Alrighty.

So we have a motion and a second.

All in favor?

Passes unanimous.

Alrighty.

And then let's go to ordinance.

Item 7A, ordinance number 2025-04, second reading and public hearing, an ordinance of the city of Gulfport, Florida, amending chapter 22 zoning.

Section 22-2.02 specific terms, green space providing for the repeal of ordinances or parts of ordinances in conflict here with to the extent of such conflict, providing for severality and providing for an effective date.

Motion to approve?

Second.

Okay, I have a motion and a second.

City manager.

I'll defer to the city attorney, ma'am.

Okay.

This is the this was requested by council.

Um basically this adds to green space definition that uh the whole area must be 100% permeable.

Um the vice mayor and I did communicate this past week and um not putting words in her mouth, but she thought that we should also remove um benches and walkways from this particular definition.

Um, but I did not have council's approval prior to tonight, but you can remove it if you so choose.

On second reading, you can remove things, you just can't add things.

Okay.

You mean you can't add like if we wanted to add some particular uh additional anything, if we wanted to say, for example, and you can't camp on there.

That's the only because it's stuck in my head camping.

Um we couldn't do that.

We'd have to re-advertise, but you can remove things.

You can make lesser.

Got it.

Okay, let's go in speaking order then, please.

Any questions?

Comments, concerns?

No.

No, no questions from either.

Um Councilmember Thanos is your reasoning because concrete, more concrete doesn't have is that your reasoning?

Okay.

No questions.

Okay, I'll just read it so people know what I'm talking about.

It says green space.

That portion of a lot or parcel which is confined entirely to lawn, landscaping, and it says incidental walkways, benches, or porous material, and which is devoid of all buildings and must be a hundred percent permeable.

So I wanted to take out incidental walkways because somebody could put walkways all over there and it then wouldn't be permeable.

And the benches are that it could stay or go, but I mean again, benches aren't permeable, so that I just think they don't belong in this.

And just so everyone knows, those words were previously in green space.

So it would be removing words that had been uh previously in our definition.

So we're not trying to take and change at this point the amount of square footage or whether that we're not trying to change that amount.

No.

What we're trying to do is better define green space.

Yes, ma'am.

So for example, if somebody says that they wanted to do concrete, that's not permeable.

That is correct.

But if they said they wanted to do pavers, then we have to say, but they need to be permeable pavers.

Right, that is correct.

Or if somebody wanted to do artificial turf, it's okay, but it needs to be permeable.

But we and artificial turf is a state law, so we can't still but we could say the parts underneath it, so it is permeable.

Yes, that is correct.

Unless it was part of their lot that you know they also had 20 percent permeable outside of where they had the turf.

Right.

So we are just um defining what we call green space.

That's correct, ma'am.

Okay.

I have no other questions.

So do we have to make a motion to take those things out before we vote on it?

You would have if you want those two sections out.

I don't who whoever made the motion and the seconder would have to agree to those two sections.

Well, I second it, so I agree to them.

I agree.

Okay.

So then that's the way it would read.

We would remove incidental walkways and benches with the new language.

Okay.

So that is the motion, Mayor.

Okay.

Any other discussion?

Public comment.

Anybody out there need to make public comment?

Yep, Bob?

You got to come up here because it's got to be recorded.

I'm getting lots of lost.

We're talking about public property?

No, private property.

Private property, like my house.

So what's the different cost between what's permeable?

Permeable means you can see through.

So I put a permeable driveway in, and my whole driveway.

They had to take up the asphalt and put a whole new driveway in.

So it was a very small extra charge to have permeated.

So they can see the water can see through.

No, fences don't functions don't, they're around the boundaries.

I think maybe you were here and back there.

Maybe you thought when we were saying benches, you thought we were saying fences.

I thought you said benches.

I was like, we were no, we didn't.

We do remember that.

We're talking about the ground, landscaping, lawn, that's what we're talking about.

Flower beds.

Right.

Okay, because and my problem with my back half, the water's coming under the ground and up into the house.

Now I plan on putting concrete down.

I'm not going to be able to do that.

Not if it's more than 20% of your property.

But you could do things like French drink.

A footer, I'm talking about.

Huh?

I couldn't pour footer and it's a little bit more.

Oh, yes, you could put a footer around your house or underneath it, yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

That's good because permeable will not work for me.

Yeah, we don't want you flooding.

Okay.

Very good.

All righty.

Can we call the vote then?

Oh, anybody else for public comments?

Sorry.

Seeing none?

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Jackson?

Yes.

Councilmember Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Mayor Love.

Yes.

Carries to passage.

Carries to passage.

All righty.

And we'll do um resolution.

Please.

Resolution.

Item 8A resolution number 2025-61.

A resolution authorizing the city manager to renew the city's insurance coverage with public rest management of Florida for fiscal year 2025-2026.

All right.

Yes, Mayor.

Mayor, this is basically your property and casualty, your homeowner's insurance, so to speak.

It also provides you protections, the indemnification clauses that we will represent you if someone was to sue the city and they named you, all to that effect.

Shannon did a great job with our claim rec history.

Excuse me, for the past year, we've only received a 10% increase.

Only a 10%.

But this is like homeowners insurance, right?

Exactly.

Well, you know, too.

Yeah, and they and the case.

Right, right, right, right.

It's not flood insurance.

No, no, no.

That's a separate.

Okay.

I need a motion before we can continue.

Motion approved.

Second.

Motion and approved.

Okay.

Or second it.

Okay.

We got you.

City manager reported.

So any uh questions, concerns, and speaking order?

Anything?

Councilmember Shaw?

I'm good.

No.

Jackson?

Early?

No.

Danos.

Nope.

Thank you.

Um public comment.

Seeing none, call the vote.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Jackson?

Yes.

Council Member Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Mayor Love.

Yes.

Carries to passage.

All righty.

It is 7:58.

We're going to take a uh nine-minute.

No.

To do whatever you need to do, get a drink of water, use the restroom, whatever, and we will resume at exactly 8.09 for two very, very important discussion items tonight.

Thank you.

Okay, I call it silent.

Okay, part two of the meeting is now uh I call it to order, okay.

And this is a discussion.

So being a discussion, it's not necessarily there's not going to be any voting tonight, but hopefully we're gonna come out with a clear consensus and that our population that's here or watching is going to kind of know where we are going.

Uh and we don't get to talk to each other, so until tonight we don't know if we're all on the same page or not.

But I am going to actually lead the uh discussion on the senior center.

I'm going to uh long before I was mayor, I spent a lot of time thinking about this, and and and now I have an opportunity to share my thoughts.

So I'm gonna kick off the discussion on the senior center, and then we will go to uh council where they will all have an opportunity to say everything that they uh their ideas as well and agree or disagree with some of my thoughts, and then of course we will have public comments.

So everybody who wants to have a chance to speak on this tonight will have a chance, okay.

So when it comes to the senior center, um I think that we had an absolutely drop dead, gorgeous, beautiful plan in place, okay.

I also don't think it was attainable.

Uh I just don't feel like it was attainable.

I think that it was too big, and we certainly found after hiring professional fundraisers that there were complications that even they didn't foresee on the fr on the front end, I think that that uh cause them to not meet with the success that they had hoped to.

So um when this council came in as early as April, I believe we let the professional fundraisers go.

And then as early as I think June, Rachel uh came back and um I was looking for an accounting of where we were on the money, and I got that, but I also heard all the reasons why we have to support the senior center, and of course, I never heard anybody say we didn't want to support the senior center.

Um I absolutely believe without a doubt that in Gulfport in the United States, um, our senior population is growing, that it's increasing, not decreasing, and I think in Gulfport that might be even more the case because it's still a place where you can still find the smaller cottage that's comfortable when it's a one or two-person family home.

So I think that we need to look at the senior center.

So I did have a meeting with uh Rachel and um the city manager, and it was real helpful for me because I once again was able to get um uh Rachel uh to reiterate what the specific goals are, what the specific problems are.

Um because I don't think anybody knows that better than Rachel because she's there day in, day out, she knows what's going on.

So in doing that, it was real clear to me, you know, if we want to just be real concise about it, what are the biggest issues?

We need more flexible open space.

We need wider hallways, and we need better bathrooms.

I know I can't get up those short little stools anymore.

Uh we need them raised up.

Okay.

Enough personal information.

Okay.

So fortunately, I was out in the audience for many years now, so I got to hear a lot of the initial conversations about the senior center.

I got to see the initial drawings and then the cleaned up version uh drawings.

And then I'm so grateful that I was also at the meeting at the senior center when folks from the senior center looked at the plans and said, Well, this, this, and this are great, but we need this, this, and this.

And I was so impressed with this architectural firm that I don't know them when they came back, because when they came back with their next and what was then the uh the final set of plans, they incorporated every single thing that they were asked to do and actually brought the money down a little bit.

You know, and it maybe had been a year already, and you'd think prices were going up.

So I'm impressed with that uh with that firm for how well they listened and how well they took care of things.

Um also I want to say that um, because you're gonna hear me definitely talking and a promoting about how do we move forward.

I want another plan and I want it start it quickly, and I feel like we're not starting at square one.

I think we have a lot of research that was already done.

We have a firm that already worked on plans, so I think we're not starting, you know, from behind the eight ball.

We've got some things done already.

Um what would I like to see?

Um, I would like to see the city make a real financial commitment to this.

Okay.

I as a resident, I did not hear that in the past.

I'm not saying that it wasn't there, I'm saying I didn't hear it in the past.

I think that we might be uh looking at the city having to contribute up to 50%, okay.

I'm very, very impressed with the foundation and the amount of money that the foundation has raised.

I'm very impressed with the fact it just seems like every month now there's multiple events and things being done to raise money.

So I feel like they have done a really good job of of carrying the load.

I know that the city manager, you know, really worked on getting us a grant, and that was a real big chunk of the change as well that we we still have.

Um I would like to think that before the night is over, that we hear a real strong support from the council to move forward with the with the senior foundation with excuse me, the senior center plan.

But before the council were to make a commitment, I think that the key words are for the long run.

I don't see this as being something that's going to happen overnight.

Um, and so I think it's really important that if we the city, whether you're the residents or the council, if we decide to move forward on this tonight and start getting into the actual planning and nitty-gritty, I think that we have to really 100% commit to this so that we don't then have another council coming in, whether it's a year from now, two years from now, three years from now, and saying, Well, we kind of changed our mind.

I think we have to be so committed and so entrenched and have the entire community so involved that there's no turning back.

That's my thoughts on that.

Um I would definitely like to see a lot more community, um, not community, but more resident involvement in the fundraising itself.

And the little example I'll give of that.

I remember at one point getting a letter saying, you know, would I like to donate to the foundation?

And I I I've done a lot of fundraising side gigs, but you know, just flat out write a check.

And I was thinking, oh yeah, I I need to do that.

But it eventually got lost with other mail, and I never got another one.

You know, I would like to think that there's a campaign going to our residents on a regular basis asking them for money, and especially at one council meeting when Rachel was talking, and our resident David Bowenstedt said, Well, I don't have any kids, I don't have anyone to leave my house to.

You know, how could I do that?

Man, we should have that program in effect, you know, because I think there's a lot of us who, you know, maybe only raised one kid and she's independent and she doesn't need my wealth.

And you know, where can I leave my house if I chose to to the senior center?

Okay.

So I think that that's all I'm saying.

I think the foundation's doing a great job.

I think that we could have more and need more community involvement among the residents themselves, and that that needs to be a stronger driving force than what I've seen so far.

Okay.

So then I go to and again, I don't think that anybody on the council should say that they're behind this and they want to see this happen unless they know in order to make this happen, it means there's not a whole lot of other things that we're gonna be looking at besides drainage and senior center, and maybe everyone's not on page with that, and I get it.

But in terms of when I'm sitting and can't sleep at night, I'm thinking, how do we make this happen?

Okay.

And I always go back to that expression how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time.

I think we had a big grand picture, and I think the price tag was more than this small town of 11,800 people could handle.

So my thoughts are that the way that we could approach this is to break it up into three smaller phases.

Now I'm not paid the big bucks to figure out which phase should come first, okay.

But I I would am very willing to throw out my thoughts on what those three phases are.

And I don't know because I don't know how much money we're talking about.

I don't know if we're talking about over a 10-year period, a 12 year or eight year.

I don't know.

I'm just gonna throw out the term three phases over 10 years, okay?

And again, I don't know what order these phases should be in, but here's my idea of how I would break it down.

And I'm I'm only one of five up here, and I acknowledge that.

I think the idea that the architect had where he was gonna take and expand into our existing southern parking lot, okay, and how he was gonna take and route traffic so it was one way on that one block of 27.

So you'd pull in one way into the library and you'd pull one way out of the library, okay.

I think that expansion into that parking lot could be one phase, and probably something that we could chew and eat one the elephant one step at a time, okay?

I think that that is something that would be manageable.

I think another phase, and this came to me when I'm watching, I've always been interested in construction, and it is my background.

I'm watching when I when I hear people come up here and and Rachel mentioned we don't want to close.

That's the negative to trying to work with what we have, we don't want to close.

Well, I don't know if anybody's noticed, but Omaddy's is not closed one day.

Okay.

They're not building on top of OMADI's, they're building over OMADI's and they're putting in an elevator.

And that's what got my attention.

I'm thinking, well, if they can do it, couldn't we do that?

Couldn't we put, you know, go over the top of this of our existing right now and bring additional space.

And again, I'm always going back to we need more open, flexible space, we need more storage, we need wider hallways, and we need better bathrooms, okay?

So I see that as another phase.

And then the last phase, in my opinion, would be to take and rework and renovate the existing space that's there.

So my thought is rather than all of a sudden trying to uh attack and say, gee, we need 15 million dollars, and I don't know what what do we have now, maybe three million dollars?

Okay, if we take and make it into smaller sections, and maybe we start out with the least expensive now, again, that's out of my pay range.

It would be the experts to tell us how to do it most cost effectively.

I'd be all in favor of that.

So that's the thoughts that I have.

Um then immediate actions, because none of this is gonna happen overnight, though I do feel like we could start on this pretty darn quick.

I think that we could come up with some money pretty quickly to get things going.

Again, I don't feel like we're starting at square one to begin with.

Um, but some immediate actions that I see as real possibilities to help us limp along until we get at least one of the three phases done, okay?

And I don't expect these to be popular, but I'm just gonna tell you what I think, okay.

I think uh one would be for us to tell the architect to go ahead right now with uh idea like what I'm suggesting, or a variation that is a consensus up here, okay.

Two would be to go back and communicate to our donors what the plan is and see how much of those donated funds we can hold on to.

There's gonna be some folks that felt like this was gonna be a brand new, and maybe they won't go ahead with us, but I think if we could show them that the city is behind this, they are in support of this.

There is a strategic three-stepping stone plan to make this happen.

I think that we could recover some of those funds, and that would be important to do our best to do so.

I heard Rachel say, I mean, realize that retirement right now for most people that are working is probably what, 68 to 70 now.

And Social Security, I know I was able to pull at 65.

That's not true for a lot of people anymore.

I think that right now when we are so crunched for space in this interim, I think we need to cut our age or increase our age from 50 to 65.

Okay.

That right there is 15% of our members.

I don't know that to be the case, but that's what I was told by Rachel is that's 15% of the membership falls below 65.

I think that could be something to help us as I say limp along.

A second thing I would say is I think that it's time for us to limp along that we either open on Saturdays or we're open five evenings a week.

And I know there's an expense that comes with that, but that expense is a whole lot more than what we were looking at with the big plan that we had in the past.

And I'm not saying it has to be forever, but if we don't have enough rooms to get in all the classes we want to, then maybe we need to extend our hours to five nights a week or or even a Saturday.

Another thing is that we know that 30% of our members are non-residents, and that's fine.

I don't have a problem with that, okay.

But I was sitting out there when it was discussed that we raise the non-resident fee to $50 a year.

$50 a year.

And people were like, oh, it's the end of the world.

Well, it wasn't the end of the world, okay.

And I would like to see by January 1, I'd like to think that uh to help us limp along that we increase that to $100 a year.

I don't think there's I don't want to say there's not a single person out there that would have to drop out the difference between 50 and 100.

I don't want to be that blanket of a statement.

But if somebody is, they'll talk to Rachel.

And Rachel can talk to the powers at BNC that we couldn't get a couple of scholarships if that's the case.

But I know the I don't use the senior center a lot now, but every so often I play Mahjong, and I will tell you when I go to play mahjong there, those ladies have a circuit.

They're here on Monday, here on Tuesday, here on Wednesday.

They are not wearing about $50 or $4 a month.

Um they can they can pay the additional costs.

Um then I kind of hinted at it, the last thing I think that we could do to help raise funds and to help us is to just get people thinking in terms of when they're writing out their their um their estate plans and they're um figuring out who their beneficiaries are.

I think that it would not be inappropriate for there to be a push from the whether it's the foundation or the residents themselves to get people thinking about maybe leaving a portion of your estate to our senior center because I do think our senior center is a big part of our aging population in the city of Gulfport.

So I know that I've said a lot.

I know this is just my thought, and I know that I'm only one of five, so what I'd like to do now is to um go in speaking order and people, the others, uh the others, council members to talk about what their thoughts are, what they did like what I said, what they didn't like, and then um we'll do public comment, and then we'll see if we have any kind of um ground, common ground amongst us.

And you get to kick off.

Thank you, but I really appreciate you laying the foundation for the conversation.

Thank you for that.

Um I agree with you.

The foundation is absolutely wonderful, and they've worked so hard and they're continuing to do so.

Um, and I also attended that meeting and thought that was extremely informative.

Um I agree with you that you know the as far as you know being achievable as far as the size of it, those types of things.

Um, the different suggestions that you've made as far as fees or open hours, those are all excellent, and I've heard that from other folks as well.

Um, and um as far as you know, the city, I'd I'd kind of have to hear how we could come up with those funds, but that could depend on what we mean by in the long range.

I could see that being more achievable because we're looking at a lot of huge things right now with the flooding, etc.

Um so I am typically in favor of incremental movement rather than no movement.

And so anything that we could you know do develop as far as how to approach that, I think would be a very practical thing to do.

You know, I've heard from a lot of people, you know, if if we would be able to add a floor.

Some people said could we even switch buildings, you know, and put them in the bigger building and whatever.

So I mean, there's there's just a lot of room for discussion on those sorts of things that I certainly don't have the answer to.

But um uh again, um I I agree with you on local support as well.

And um, someone had even mentioned here earlier that um one fundraiser they were involved with was uh by spelling a square foot at a time, getting donations that way, kind of like we've done with the bricks, you know, and I and but the square foot would have obviously be a little bit more than a brick.

So um any kinds of things like that that we can do to help move it forward, I think would be wonderful.

We're very proud of our senior center, and we would be very proud of any of the improvements that we could make.

Um I I did have another thought too.

Well, it wasn't my thought.

Someone pointed out that you know when we talk long term, um, if we're talking 15 years, um, the people that would be using it then might be having different needs in it.

So that's something we need to consider as well.

Um, you know, I'm not even sure I'll be here in 15 years, but um, you know, hopefully I will be, and I could be using it.

So, but uh you know, we've talked about you know, trying to reach out to 50 and 60 year olds to increase those numbers, but by the time by the time they're perhaps not working and they would be utilizing it more.

Um they um they would have maybe different desires and or needs, but even as far as right now, extending the hours to evenings and weekends for them would certainly be more achievable as far as their them being able to participate in using it.

So we've had so many people shared their thoughts and ideas, and so I'd like to just move on and see what everybody else has to suggest.

Okay, thank you for your thoughts.

Yes, I'm also um in support of the senior center and continuing that discussion and figuring out how we can build it in phases, and I agree with your plan on the action items we can start taking and working with Rachel and others to figure out what is a feasible option that would suit the needs of the senior center now in the short term and then as well in the long term.

And um as for um increasing open hours, I don't know if like who from the senior center would be able to support those times, so we may need to figure out if that's possible with their staff.

Well, we might need to do that.

Yeah, we would we would hire an additional like part like we do at recreation.

We open it, we open at the rec center on Monday to Friday evening.

We have a part-time or two part-time employees that would work.

Okay.

That would just be something we would address as you once we get direction.

Yep.

Well, yeah, all the points I uh that you made, I agreed with, and same with council member Shaw too.

Donating a square foot is a cute one.

A nice fundraiser, a different way to look at fundraising.

I always like clever ideas, that's a good one.

Yes, please.

Mayor Love, we were on the same page here.

Um I also thought about the renovations, excuse me, and in stages.

So I actually asked AI.

So excuse me, to ensure uninterrupted access to all senior center activities during the renovation period.

It is recommended to utilize satellite locations throughout the community.

So we have many of those.

We have a library, we have church, we have partner organizations, we have wonder works, we have places where we have gems, so we can uh maybe have crafts and wonder works on Mondays, and we can really move people around in a way that they don't lose any of what they're uh enjoying to do or their friends, but um also you know complete renovations as needed.

So it keeps activities um in our locally and maintain regular activities helps keep seniors socially engaged, etc.

And collaborating with local organizations may open new opportunities for expanded programs and share resources.

So that may be something that we can do while we're renovating.

Um I liked your idea about the folks that didn't live in Gulfport, but the ones that do, maybe we have a sliding scale.

I think that free is fantastic, but I also think that there are many members who live locally who could also contribute, and I think we can use the sliding scale there.

Okay, so what you're saying is you would be open to there being some annual cost to a residence as opposed to right now, everything is free.

Yes.

Okay.

And uh would you be thinking that that would be the same expense as non-residents or lesser?

I think we'd probably have to do the math and see what the sliding scale looks like, right?

So when we talk about someone's finance, like I wouldn't be able to even guess what what people could afford, but I think there are many people, and you mentioned some, and I know they're out of golf port, but there are many people in Gulfport who could pay and pay a little bit more than maybe someone who couldn't pay, and it would really work on that sliding scale.

We'd have to be very careful with it, but I think that we could do that, and I don't think that many people would mind that.

Mayor, if I may one of the things we do at rec at the recreation program with children it's all fee-based, but if you're a child that's on free or reduced lunch, you get possibly a scholarship or you get a reduced rate, and we do that.

We offset it.

What you would do is move.

We've always looked at the multi-purpose center, senior center as something that was funded.

The city wanted to commit to that in the 1980s when they built it.

One of the things that you could do, and this is when you start talking about being open at any evening, things like that.

It become more of a recreation program model that we use at the rec center versus a senior.

I hate to use the word senior center, but you you would use that more of a recreation facility model.

When you talk you're gonna have it hopefully within the with a year or so, you'll have the casino come back online.

You we did a lot of things with the casino, and I know council member Shaw will tell you in the past they used the casino for certain Tai Chi classes, or they did it for certain dances or excuse me.

T dance.

T dances, things there was a lot of things that were shared between those while you run to construction.

We also we had to do the same when the rec center was closed.

We put children at the scout hall.

So there's things that but you have to look at it as it's not so senior focused.

It becomes more programming type for as a recreation facility.

Now a lot of what we do is socialization for a lot of older people, but at the same time, if you're looking at it, if you're gonna raise the age, I mean I'm not trying to get ahead of yourselves, but raise the age, have a sliding fee.

You what we do like at the marina, you if you're a resident, you get a 20% discount.

You could say everyone pays a hundred dollars.

Well, if you're a re resident, you pay 50.

I mean, we can work something out, and I think you would do that.

You would ru you would still have someone, even though we're gonna talk about later in the budget about how much your taxes pay for.

These are things a lot of people have paid for many years and look forward to going, and they've offset it in their mind.

But at the same time, I think the guidance would be to start programming it and looking at it staffing-wise and activity-wise or registration fee-wise, more like the recreation centers run.

That's just my input on that.

And I did not put him up to that, pardon.

I did not put him up to that.

Oh very good.

Yes.

Okay, I've talked to a lot of people about this.

Um I love the legacy idea and the thing about wills and stuff.

That that's great.

And and reaching out more for donations because nobody ever asked me for money.

So, you know, directly for that.

Um, I think the senior center foundation's great.

I think everybody loves the senior center and that it's well run and um respected.

Um I don't like the idea of making it up to 65.

I do like the idea of seven days a week or evenings, really expanding the hours because then you could use, you know, have more classes or whatever, and maybe break things up so you don't have so many people in each class because it and therefore the rooms would work better.

It was suggested that we switch using the senior center and the rec center.

So make the senior center at the rec center and the rec center at the senior center.

That the senior the rec center is much bigger than the senior center, and um possibly that could work.

And that's a cheap fix.

You could just go in and put new toilets and stuff.

That's cheap.

And maybe we would need to, if we were going to stay in the senior center, maybe we'd need to do some at least some of the renovations that wouldn't change once you came back to renovate that you could do that, because I hate doing things twice.

I I I in the interim, I would even say make it residents only.

Um I'd rather keep the age 50 to 65 and have it residents only because residents are the ones that are paying for this, not the non-residents.

And if we made allowed non-residents, I think a hundred dollars is still way too cheap.

And you know, if people couldn't afford it, you can still make it monthly payments or something rather than a one-time lump fee.

And the Sunshine Center in St.

Pete charges per class.

So even though they don't charge a registration fee for an annual fee, they do charge per class, and it probably ends up coming to much more than anything we would be charging.

Um I like the idea of selling a square foot.

And the I to really keep in mind, and I'm sure Rachel knows from talking to other senior center people whether they're already aware of the kinds of different needs people will have to in 10 or 15 years.

I'm I'm sure they're on to that already.

Um I love the satellite places because I don't think we're not using every building all the time.

And we have the art center, and we could use that, we could use Scout Hall more, and whether we switch with the rec center or not, the rec center may have buildings that we could use.

We could have gems running a loop around between all these buildings so people could get around wherever they needed to, so that they didn't have to worry about that.

And I do think we need a commitment to what whatever we're doing.

My personal commitment immediately is to stormwater.

I mean, that is going to be a huge, huge project.

And you know, I would rather see us do modified things on the senior center for now, maybe using the money that we get, and like you say, talking to the people who had potential donations out there, seeing if they're willing to change it to renovations or you know, something different.

And you know, because if we say the city's to pay 50 percent, no matter what, if you're doing it over five or ten or fifteen years, it's gonna be even if you scale it back, it's gonna be twenty million by the time you're done at least.

And so for us to put 10 million in, you know, we would probably have to borrow or have a bond.

I don't I I don't foresee in the near future being able to get that many grants.

And uh and clearly they had trouble getting grants already.

They applied for heaps of them.

And and again, they did a they were professional fundraisers and they couldn't raise the money.

So I'm still worried about committing to something that we're not gonna be able to raise money for again.

And then we'll be, you know, and if I don't know if we're thinking of hiring somebody again to fundraise, you know, certainly if we did, I'd want them to be local so they know the landscape here rather than somebody who's out of state or even out of the area.

Um but I don't want to see people disappointed again to think that you know, three years we've been trying to raise money and we've hardly raised anything.

And we do have money left in the money that Charlie Chris got us.

He got us 1.5 million.

We have money left there for planning and and architecture design and that kind of stuff.

So we have some money for that already that can't be used for anything else.

Well, let me clarify that.

Okay.

Okay, because we have to once council provides some direction, we would go back to Congresswoman.

She's the only one that can reappropriate it.

No, but that would be if we use it for something besides an architecture or design, right?

We can use it for that.

You're it was for architecture for design for a new building.

Oh, so we would have to go back to the side.

If but we what we're looking for, and mayor if I may, is clearly defining the parameters.

Do you want to move forward?

Because we can give you some baby steps and for lack of a better term, is small steps to take that would lay out some of these things that you're talking about before you and then if you want to make the commitment and you get the idea what this is gonna cost you.

I would tell you to retain Harvard Jolly to if you decide to phase it or such to come in and give you a new budget to give you some ideas to look at what it would cost to do renovations, you know.

We would ask those questions.

Do you want to if we were to renovate it, what could what would it cost us to renovate this?

What would it cost us to add this wing?

Things like that.

But we need and the same idea, what I the biggest thing that Rachel and I discussed was if you want to move forward, we need something to tell the donors.

That to start with that the donors, there are some people that were significant donations.

We have to be able to go to them and we put them off for quite a bit of time.

Do you the city is going to do this?

Are you willing to stay maintain your contribution, your commitment?

If not, then we'll know because we have to get a number.

We have to be able to say the city would like to do the X instead of Z.

Are you willing to participate with us?

That's when you'll come up with your budget.

Because you first we're gonna have to what I would suggest is, and we have monies, and we'll talk about this a little bit more when we talk about the budget.

I don't think no one doesn't disagree, and I talked a little bit about it earlier, that stormwater is not going to be a precedent.

Is not it we know that.

But you have if you if this is also as you use the word legacy, if this is something that the city wants to commit to, yes, it may take time, but it you have to decide, and it has to be a project as the mayor spoke of that transcends city councils and city managers.

And you know, the one thing we talked about, and I always go back to in 2015-16, we started talking about repairing our sewer system.

You did it.

You've invested 13 million dollars over the past 10 years.

You've given 400 50,000 approximately to your residents for storm for private sewer laterals, things like that.

So you took those steps.

All we're asking tonight is do you want to go forward?

Do you want to invest a little bit of what you have available, and then make the determination, but to bring you back a plan, I think what we need to number one is does the council want to commit?

It has to transcend, and I use this cliche all the time.

It has to transcend all the city councils.

You know, we there was the council member, we talked about the mooring field, councilmember Shaw and I.

Do you want to do this?

If you do, then let us go back and get you a better price, but have a plan.

But we know that sewers are gonna be stormwater is gonna be the issue, and I refer it.

But this is something you want to do.

Well, it and and I would suggest that we go out on bids again, because one thing about Harvard Jolly is fine, but they don't build senior centers.

They haven't ever built one.

That's something that they brought up at the meeting that that we both went to, you know.

So you know, I think it's worthwhile to go out to somebody else as well, or you know, go out for bids, because when you go out for bids, not only might you get a better a different price, but people different people bidding might have different ideas, and and one person's ideas might be significantly better than another's.

Well, I think if when you the only issue you're gonna recreate a lot of work that they've already performed.

Yeah, they've done a lot of the groundwork, they have the initial, they have your files and all that.

That's the only reason I'm speaking to them.

They build government buildings.

And we don't need to get bogged down in all the details right now.

Um the the key, the most important thing that I think that I set up here was when I said phases.

And each phase has to fulfill the goal.

And the goal is more open, usable space, wider hallways, more storage, and better bathrooms.

So the reason that I wanted to re-emphasize that is because if we have a plan for phase one, two, and three, whatever that order might be, okay, and we've raised the money for phase one because it's a bite-sized piece, it's something we can really attack.

And we get that done, and we have something economically catastrophic happen in our country.

We haven't disrupt disrupted the process of the senior center.

It's functioning.

We just already improved upon it, and we paid for that.

And then if we have to catch our breath for a year and fine-tune the second um phase because now we're four years down the road, and maybe the quote experts, which we're not, are saying, well, things are changing a little bit in the aging industry, and we think you know, we need to look at this issue, which we didn't in the past, you know, so it's in bite-sized pieces, and I I and we don't have to go out immediately and try and come up with seven and a half million dollars.

You know, we do it in bite-sized pieces.

The senior foundation's done a good job of raising funds and you know, collecting interest on it, and there's funds out there that we can make some of this happen if it's more bite-sized pieces.

And and again, I like that several of you hit on the fact that you know the needs of what the senior industry might be saying are are are necessary ten years from now might be different than they are right now.

But if we keep the focus, all the little details are gonna change many times, but the focus is is each of the phases has to accomplish the goals of giving us more open and flexible space, wider hallways, better bathrooms, and more storage.

It doesn't have to all be done at one time over a period of time.

So, one thing, I mean, the the people who suggested using the recenter, I mean, right away you could get more space, and maybe we could even well, I guess we wouldn't want to add on to the recenter because then you're in a flood zone and you don't really want to do that.

But um, it already has an elevator, it has upstairs spaces, and it has the big um gym with a big floor.

People could go back to having dances till the casinos built, and I don't know how many rooms.

What do I do with the kids?

What do I do with the children playing at a basketball court?

Yeah.

What do I do with the kids?

Well, I mean, but it's easy enough to build an outside basketball court.

You have one, but I'm saying you're are you gonna start adding you if you're gonna switch them.

I mean, it's just we've looked at this ten times over since the 1980s when they built this first was the biggest issue is you have a recreation center for children.

You have a play field, you have a gymnasium, you have all you have meeting classrooms, you have all those things.

But for but when we start talking about flipping things, I I have to speak up because this you have a recreation center, you don't have a play area, you don't have any of those type things at the senior center.

And I'm not I'm just being candid about it.

I think if you want to commit to building a re improving your senior center, then let's improve the senior center.

The I you're gonna have to invest just as much money to make the seni the recent available or the senior center available for children.

So I don't think I can only imagine that in our renovations of the recenter that we just completed, that it was very much geared towards children, um, not towards seniors.

And I don't can't say that for sure because I haven't walked through it, but the the finishes and the way you would attack things for a children's rec center and the way you do for a senior center are different.

So, you know, I'm only one of five, but I know I would not be in favor of doing that.

I would not want to take a senior center uh and and uh adapt it and spend more money adapting it for our seniors only to potentially lose it in a in a hurricane down the road.

So I wouldn't be open to that idea, but I like a lot of the other things you said, and I and I um made notes of it.

So did we interrupt you or were you done?

Okay, you were okay?

All righty.

Um so I see that we have some consensus and we have some things that were not on the same page, but I think before I open this to public comment, I think the thing that you really have to work on, and and I'm in agreement, and you hear Jim and I hear you, and some people have heard me, and we're going there in a few minutes.

When I went away to uh Alaska for two weeks, I was clear that this was the number one thing, okay.

The the senior center.

When I saw 75 emails and I heard and saw the fear of in everybody about the drainage, I said, oh my goodness, we now have two number one things.

So I'm not I I I'm not uh willing to, you know, the drainage is extremely important.

So when I came back and I saw that I did go to the city manager and said, a lot of these other things become secondary.

I'm not gonna worry about uh, and I don't want to give examples and get people mad at me, but I'm not gonna worry about this dime detail, and I'm not gonna worry about this detail and this detail.

And I think those are the has to be the focus, which means that we don't have, you know, every time we can save a thousand dollars, it becomes something greater.

We don't have a lot, we'll not have a lot of extra money to be asking for other things for the next couple of years.

Our focus has to be how do we continue to run as a leaner, cleaner machine, okay, putting safety first, but saving every bit of money that we can for this.

So I think I kind of got off on my rant here.

I apologize.

Uh I I do think that we've got two major major issues that we've got to look at, but that's where I was going.

Is if we move forward on this, whether it's drainage, the senior center, or both, we have to realize that we're not gonna get a lot of the little things that we want or our residents want.

We have to be as focused as we were when we were all young women and and we were um uh putting money in envelopes, you know, to save for different budgeting things, and nothing broke that.

And that's how we got to retire young, you know.

I mean, we have to be really tough and stringent.

So I'm gonna pull back for a minute and I'd like to hear public comment, and I'll start with Lauren.

Oh, the feet are like a sleep from setting.

Okay, Lauren Sternward 4.

I'm devastated, I have to leave, but I have to go get my children.

But I'm here speaking as a parent, which has not been like mentioned as a constituency in this topic, and I'm so clear it's my senior center and it's my kids' senior center.

And so I just am bringing that listening, like this isn't like four seniors or for people over ex age, like I've got four in-laws who live in Gulfport.

So, like it's ours.

And and I really agree with you, Mayor, to say like this has to be way more, everybody's aware of this, everybody's clear on the value, everybody's clear on the future investment this is, the property value, all of that.

Um, planned giving.

So, like I've I did that in college.

I did fundraising for my college for four years and learned a hell of a lot about it.

So I'm excited to go talk to the foundation and be like, okay, can I come in as a different constituent, Amy?

And no, hello.

Um, but that can speak to that from a very different perspective that I think has been not yet brought into the fold, but here I am coming into the fold.

So please don't switch.

I know you're not gonna switch, but please don't switch.

Great idea.

I love the creativity.

Um, but yeah, so anyway, I just yeah, this is everybody's center.

I think having a yoga class that's open to all ages one night a week would be amazing.

Like, maybe not little, but you know, wider, like let's have people in there, let's have people everybody see what this is.

Let's have everybody, somebody at the neighborhood center, but it's the teacher who does it at the senior center.

You know, like it it's a it's a one of our many community spaces, and we all gotta own that.

We've all got to know that that's all an investment for all of us.

Um and I'm gonna get my kids, but this is this is very important, and it's very important to everybody.

So thanks for your hard work on this.

And also have been watching the last two years of like they had a big city on a hill and just be increasing usage, and that's that's the goal.

So thanks.

Okay, thank you.

Okay, uh, Angrid, pardon?

Do we have a problem?

I don't know.

I did go out.

Yeah, just oh power surge.

Can we use a clock?

It's the power surge.

Well, we just wait one second.

I'm looking at the lightning.

Okay.

Okay, so I've just got a minute.

Okay, let's give everybody Ingrid has the floor.

Yeah.

We were just watching trying to set up the timer again.

We lost it.

Oh, I see.

Does anybody have a clock there?

You think you thank you.

And I maybe I won't even take the um Ingrid Bredenberg, 56th Street.

I just want to comment on this process and what I appreciate about this deliberation.

Um, I really love that the mayor set the context, really laid out the needs, reference data and research, um, clarified again her own ideas, but made a very clear proposal for people to respond to.

I think this is really important as you're deliberating.

Um, and as I'm listening to all this, obviously I have some thoughts about, you know, I love that you're thinking in terms of phases, that you're thinking about how can we do this in in bite size, but again, you've got a very talented staff that once you as a body can identify your criteria, your priorities, your great ideas, they can take that and come back with something that is really, you know, they know the work that needs to be done.

And already there's some wonderful creativity about, you know, I love that you came up with the AI.

I mean, hello, let's use it.

Um, and the idea that fundraising can actually assist in community involvement.

And if we have to definitely show the value of what this resource is, you know, a hundred dollars for everybody, yes, great, but then something for residents, you know, or some kind of uh scholarship, but let's not diminish the actual value of a membership at the senior center.

Let's put it out there and then figure out how people that want to be part of it but can't do it, you know, work that one out.

But again, I'm I have I think that Rachel and her staff probably have lots of great ideas too.

Just let them know what you want, and then the moving forward just seems like something that's really important.

Let's definitely move forward.

And yes, we have more than one priority here, but you've got to have the longer view with the senior center, and then the the immediacy of the um of the the drainage.

So that was what I wanted to say, and thank you for your good work.

Really appreciate you.

Thank you.

Yeah, Amy.

Oh Amy Costa, Gulfport Senior Center Foundation.

Um, a couple I'm just gonna, a couple things that came to mind.

So regarding the membership tiers, we are working on um a new membership program to join the foundation.

I think um I've been on the foundation for a couple years now, and when I came in, there was there, it's always been there, and you know, you get the card in the mail, and like Mayor Love said, you see, and you're like, oh, I should donate to that.

I think it was 35 bucks.

Um, we're gonna ramp it up.

We're gonna have you know, all the different levels, the tiers of giving, they'll come with fun swag, you know, you'll get your senior foundation Yeti, I don't know, whatever that's gonna be.

So you'll have something to say, like, oh, I supported.

Um, we are gonna build, we do have a legacy program already that existed again, just needs more um some more support getting it out there, so that'll be happening for sure.

Um, one thing I was thinking of, I know Rachel has these numbers, but for all the people that come to the senior center from municipalities that don't have senior centers.

Is there money within those governments to say, hey, we have you know, a bunch of your senior population come into our senior center, you don't have one, why don't you guys chip in and help us fund this?

So maybe we can reach out to some of those other town towns or cities that don't have centers that were supporting their seniors.

Um I think it'd be great because then we can try to maybe then keep the price still low for seniors, and I do love a sliding scale.

Um, one of the things that we talked about, like if we're we are talking about opening evening hours and hiring more staff, there is a little gym in there.

Um, if you were to sell gym memberships to people that weren't seniors that could come in.

I know there's a lot of moms in our community, people that don't want to work out at crunch that would come in the evenings, get on the treadmill, and they could pay a gym membership, and that could be a direct you know, a donation to the building fund or whatever we want to call it.

Um I was one of the people in the conversation for the swapping of the buildings.

I know it's not popular for a lot of reasons, but there are a few.

It might be just worth a walkthrough and some just for creative thoughts.

I love putting a second floor on girders, you know, on if that works.

If not, the rec center already has two floors when we do have flooding and hurricanes, and you know, all the kids have to not go to the rec center, that's tougher on parents.

Whereas even though we love our seniors and we want them supported, they're at home, so there's they're still safe.

Whereas our parents often still have to go to work, and when the flooding comes, I know a lot of our our friends who are parents had to figure out where their kids were gonna go.

Um, having the kids in the central area of town, we know they're gonna be safe in there and away from the water.

So that's that saves that.

Um there could be expansion around it, enclosing that outside overhang, like a sunroom, um, the rec centers closer to town shores, which is a huge part of our senior population.

Um, I do like the idea of the annex buildings, um, councilwoman early, like you had said, like getting people to different areas, and I know there's a lot of us out there in a lot of organizations that have space that would also um thank you, would uh offer that up.

And yeah, that's all right.

All righty.

Who else would like to speak about this?

Nobody else wants to add.

Okay.

What's your name?

MUD.

My name is Gail Gravelle.

Yes, I'm with the foundation.

We are doing many, many things, and we're trying to uh expand a lot of the shows that we have.

We just had a vintage variety where we had a little burlesque and whatever.

Uh it was very well received.

It was full out.

Uh we're trying to the shows that we put on at the Hickman, we're trying to do food and and you know to generate more people.

Uh we're we've got the uh what are they called?

What's the band?

Oh, Mad Beach Band is coming, which is a big sell out.

We've got a lot of the shows that will be sold out.

Uh if we can't because we can't use the casino anymore, or until it's not been repaired.

Just not now.

Well, right.

Um we're using the Maria Center, but the Maria Center costs us money because it belongs to the Catholic Church, but it's a great facility that we're using for night in Italy and for Casino Night, which is in the 31st of January.

So we are doing things uh to generate more money towards the new building what ever.

I do like the three-phase idea.

I think it's a it's you doable, but we shall see.

And I'm done.

Thank you.

All right.

I don't I don't take three minutes.

All righty.

Okay, very good.

And I ramble.

Oh, Kieran.

Hi.

Uh Karen Schwartz Dillett Avenue South.

Um, I like the idea of the phases.

I think that's really smart.

And yes, at O'Maddy's, they are building above the building in anticipation of when the rest of it just disappears.

So I think that's wise.

I really I really like that idea.

Now the thing about the hallways being too narrow, I think I I actually think that should be addressed sooner.

Um and the bathrooms.

I can't see waiting to have the I don't know, I don't know how you'd do it, but I think I think making the making the hallways wider and improving the bathrooms, which would not be a hard thing to do, would be really, really important.

Um and uh oh, and my my final thought is I don't think the age should be raised to 65.

I think raising it maybe to 60, but there are a lot of people who are um who really do need it, who are not 65 yet.

There are people in their 50s.

I mean it would be a way of making more room in the place, but I'm willing I don't know who goes to um the lunches, but there's probably a lot of people who are under 65.

So anyway, my thoughts, and of course, my other thoughts are there are buildings in this city that are either underutilized or not utilized at all.

I understand that at the bank there's someone who s who owns it who says he uses it.

I don't know.

It's been deserted as long as I've lived here.

And the other building is the that gray one on, yeah.

You know what I'm talking about.

I'm sure everybody here knows exactly what I'm talking about, and I think everybody has a price.

Everybody has a price, and maybe there's some way of negotiating for the those spaces.

I don't know.

My thoughts, I love the senior center, and um yeah, I I want to see something happen there.

Thanks.

All right, anybody else?

Marilyn.

Um I wanted to say too, I appreciate um how everybody is civil with each other, even though you don't agree it with ideas.

It's such a fresh feeling to witness that.

Um when I was a kid, the nearest hospital was like an hour away.

And I remember for years and years when you came into town, there were groups with firemen's boots collecting money.

I know it doesn't sound like a lot when you're talking about millions of dollars for a building, but if every little bit helps, we're a town that we have events going on all the time.

There's a lot of people coming into town.

I know we don't want to have part paid parking, but maybe for some of these bigger events, if we charge a few bucks to park in the senior parking lot or into the library or whatever, the the abandoned bank, if we can start to look at some of those ways, that's some other money that can help us, you know, just uh just trying to think uh outside the box.

And and and what's happened here is exactly what I'm talking about.

We have to have the entire community involved in the residents all figuring out what can I do to help the foundation?

Well, I can join there and become get on their board.

I've got good ideas.

What can I do to help?

And every bit, and I mean, if if all of a sudden you have in the next 12 months, you have every resident in Gulfport, and we know every resident won't be there, but pulling, okay, what can I do to help the foundation?

What event could I attend?

We're all pulling together because we have two things that we're needing to attack, and we and we have to attack it as a community.

Absolutely.

And that and that's what I I'm seeing and hearing here tonight.

So I think the way we're gonna wrap this up then is um I know everybody up here took notes.

I heard a lot of I I heard of um pretty much positive thoughts on the consensus of phases, okay.

That was pretty consistent.

In my notes, I had gone for present 65 and hope to get 60.

Um, you know, when we talk about um having uh using satellite offices, well, that could help us limp along when we're able to have access to them.

I mean, right now, because of us not having um uh the casino that takes out Scout Hall, you know, and we are don't have our National Guard station, okay?

So there's already buildings that we don't have access to, so it's harder to look at satellites.

But anyway, I heard, you know, that we're um what I think I heard.

I'm looking at everybody for uh uh I think I heard that everybody here knows that if we say we're moving forward when everybody wants a hundred here or a thousand here, or only ten, only ten thousand, and we can do this.

We have to say can't do that right now.

I mean, that's gonna that's not gonna go away in a couple of months.

That's gonna be a consistent thing with the th two things, and of course, we're getting ready to go into our budget conversation, so that's gonna come up again.

But I think that um I know most of us take and watch the meetings again, and I'll be watching again and I'll be looking for where we had the most consensus and reiterating that back to the city manager, and then uh I'm okay with staying in my lane.

Uh, we have a professional here that can help lead the ship under our direction.

We have Rachel giving um good insight all the time, and again, I was not suggesting any order that those phases be done because I want them to be done in the most efficient, cost-effective way possible.

I'm only saying that the main criteria needs to be implemented in each of the phases.

You know, that's all I'm saying.

So I think we're going to catch our breath here for just a second, and we're going to move on to the next part of our discussion item tonight, and that's going to be led to the side.

Can I get one couple of consensus?

Yes.

Is one should we move forward with bringing the architects back on board just to at least look at some of the phasing process?

Do we want to open at night after October because we can budget for part-time positions?

Do you want, and I guess this is a big part of it.

Do you want to look at raising the registration fee and then lowering the non-resident registration fee?

These are small asks.

You want to raise and then have a lower rate for residents?

Do you want to start charging a resident fee?

Those are the two things because those would have impacts on the budgeting process.

Okay, let's take them one step at a time then.

Okay.

Do we want to give them the go-ahead to start looking at breaking this down?

It doesn't have to be exactly the way I said, but into three phases that are more affordable at any given point and attack one at a time.

So we're asking, are we willing to lose use the existing architect that we've used in the past?

And we'll go in speaking, you know, just kind of a consensus.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I'll go along.

Okay, we got the question.

So we'll get a we'll get a proposal from him, and if it succeeds $20,000, we'll bring it back to you.

Right.

Okay.

The next is do you would you like to go to opening in the evenings beginning in October?

I would have to budget for two part-time staff people.

Okay, and that's interesting.

You say October, because my brain was thinking January 1.

Okay, well, we could.

But we could start in January, that's fine.

But I'm just saying I would have to, if you want to start moving, because my issue with weekends is scheduling and weekend activities when then we have conflicts with the theater and things like that.

Oh, good point.

Okay, so for from a management point of view for the city, to be open five nights a week is a better choice than weekends with the theater.

Exactly.

Okay, thanks for bringing up the response.

Because all these activities that they were talking about where we provide this foundation, the facilities and that, that's kind of that's where we get into conflict.

Okay.

All righty.

So I was thinking January 1, but the fiscal year, I'm okay with it in October.

We'll plan we have to budget for the fiscal year, but we can start implementing these things in January.

Okay, let's okay.

So we're gonna do a consensus about opening five nights a week effective January.

Right.

Okay.

Uh yes, and until the casinos open, we have events staff, part-time event staff that's hurting for work.

Right.

Well, yeah, most of them have gone kind of they've gone on.

Well, not all of them.

Some of them have said something too.

Okay, good.

Okay, so that's we'll find hours for them.

Yes.

Yes.

I would go for October first, but January is okay too.

I gotta be able to staff it in this.

Okay.

And the others was do you want to change the age participation?

Um, we'll go in order.

So, but we need to so I said I said sixty-five, I'll compromise to sixty.

Okay.

Um I just ask what percentage of the people, maybe Rachel, you know, are are between fifty and sixty.

Would you say about fifteen percent?

Well, I knew the answer was fifteen percent, but that was from fifty to sixty-five.

I don't know fifty to sixty.

But I can tell she's looking.

I well, I have a vague memory of something coming up.

Um older Americans asked to find the senior center at 50 years old.

That's so I'm trying to find that definition.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

It's a definition of the senior of a senior center.

It's well, it's less than 15 percent.

We know that.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's correct.

And the percentage that is at the center, it's about it's I think it was 13%.

Okay.

And 65 accounts.

And when I was um going to 65, oh, I just had a senior moment.

I have to stop.

Sorry.

Are we going on the so now we're talking 60?

No, well, that's what I'm saying is if we could compromise um the next question.

My my thing is is that between 60 and 65, you know, I I suspect that's where the more people fall into that 15 percent and between 60 and 65 than between 50 and 60, because I think the majority of people are what working when they're 50 years old.

I mean, retirement nowadays is 68 years old, so that's why I felt like the 65 was still being lenient.

Oh, that's I got the point back.

I'm not saying forever, I'm saying for now.

Well, we're limping around until we get one of the phases under construction and finished so that we have more space.

So when I was suggesting that we lower that age, I did not mean forever.

I mean as a uh temporary measure today because we're so short of space.

But aren't they the the people who are working, therefore could probably pay more?

And they could come at night when we're gonna be open now.

Right.

And they weren't able to go before I never went to that gym.

Yeah, that that's what I was thinking as well.

Okay.

So do we want to keep it at 50 or can we compromise at 60?

I would say let's leave it as it is for now, and then we can sort of monitor how that's going.

That doesn't seem like we would have to decide that at this moment, do we?

I was just getting obvious because the topic it came up.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, again, I'm just saying we're we're hearing we don't have enough space, we don't have enough space.

Realistically, that's not going to change for two to three years.

So I was trying to take out 15% of the I'd rather take it out with non-residents than with residents that are 50 to 65.

Okay.

That was my next question.

Okay.

All right, go ahead.

We want to focus on you want to focus on.

Do you want to eliminate non-residents and just have it a resident only program?

No.

Oh, sorry.

Okay, no, no.

30% are non-residents.

30% that are non-residents.

70% are residents.

Okay.

That's what I had in my point.

So wait, let's just do one at a time.

Let's go back to the age thing first for consensus.

The question is, do you want to raise the age limit, or do you want to maintain it at 50 years old?

I no.

I do not want to.

I don't want to.

I don't want to change the age.

Okay.

I don't want to change the age me either.

Okay.

So I'm in the outside one.

All right.

Then go to the resident versus non-resident.

Okay.

Do you want to or you could make the if you want to maintain non-residents effective in January, you would have a much higher res fee to participate.

Because that would recover it.

What going to we've done that in the past.

We've gone to other cities, like with GEMS, South Pasadena, we approached them.

They were like, if somebody wants to participate at your place, charge them a non-resident fee.

That was the answer we received from other governments.

Other governments, if I want to go play softball in St.

Petersburg, and I live in Gulfport, I pay a non-resident fee.

So those are the type that would be the answer.

You could make the non-resident fee substantial.

Higher non-resident fee.

Higher non-resident fee.

Yeah.

Isn't that what Amy said she was just working on?

Sorry?

No, the no membership for our foundation.

This is ours.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, I agree.

That raise the fee for, yeah.

Okay.

I agree also.

Yeah.

And and more than just a hundred.

No, no, that's what it would be.

If you just the other day, the city of Largo just doubled their fees.

I mean, Andy could talk to you.

So you this is not unique.

Well, but sliding scale, do we still want to do that?

No, that would be we'd have a lower rate for residents.

For a resident.

Resident may now be 50, and we can work with scholarships and we'll come up with a number.

Okay, but if it would be free.

If our non-resident is 50 today and we talked about 100, and what I'm hearing that everybody's saying is raise it even higher.

That's more than doubling it.

Yeah, no, no, I'm just using that for an example.

I'm okay with that.

Yeah, and that's what we'll do.

Okay.

And that's what we'll do that is for lack of a better term, a weeding out class.

You know, if you raise it, you're gonna reduce attendance.

Yeah.

So we'll we'll do that.

Okay.

That we've got our yep, and then because I'm gonna have because I'm gonna go back now with my budget, and I'll add some staff and we'll work with uh people that want hours.

But we'll budget for it.

We're good.

All right.

Thank you.

Very good.

Very good.

All righty, so as I was saying, um our city manager is now gonna lead the uh budget discussion for us.

Sure.

And uh I think it's gonna be another very um could be a little bit lengthy, but very, very valuable.

Um, where are we?

What are the people want, and how are we gonna achieve it?

That that's serious.

Oh my god.

Everybody's leaving because he's going down the it's always been so funny to me how our city will come out and they'll fight about um uh a dog park or what what we're gonna put on the surface of the dog park, but then when we get to the big items like the budget they leave.

Two residents in the rest of your staff.

They're in every city.

Same thing, it's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, you're gonna talk about millions of dollars.

I wanted to touch on one item that was brought up earlier about the shuffle board park part.

Yeah, we had an extensive shuffle board park.

We had two core two sides of the hall down here.

And and the shuffleboard golf board shuffleboard club, and subsequently they became your dog parks.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, we could put a shuffleboard court in the dog park and they could play shuffleboard while the dogs play.

It it's funny how we go full circle.

I mean it I I thought the same thing when I heard that.

I'm like, oh no.

Yeah.

So first of all, just real quickly, I've just got some background information.

And can you raise the mic a little bit just to do that?

So that people at home can hear you.

Sure.

Okay.

This went to, yeah, it went to.

Oh, okay.

I was using the error there.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, just in context contextual, is the proposed budget.

And it's big to look at it in context, due to the fact that we've heard you all year long about being reasonable and being conscientious.

And we'll get to a slide where I want to thank this.

We maintained the proposed millage rate.

Council elected on the July 15th to adopt the tentative millage rate at 4.0258.

You'll see the consistency that we've maintained in our millage rate.

Where we had the issue approximately 18 years ago, where we compounded our own problems.

We had a spike, council started cutting it, and so we why we've legislated and asked for legislation to maintain the millage rate in the 4.3 to 4.0258 range over the and you you've got that slide timeline.

With that said, we've seen the total we've recovered from the total property values from earlier on when we saw the economic downturn in 2014, 2012, we lost all our property values.

We had it's about that time from the highest point was we lost about 38% of the property value in the city.

Now we've fully recovered, but that's gonna be a question I'm gonna talk about a little later on.

That's starting to flatten out.

So somebody asked me about that today.

If the county or anybody has done projections of what it'll look like in 27, 28, 29.

Well, the only thing that we can use is we're you looking at the consumer price index because what it's too inflation's two point, I know that I can only right now they half the county has lost property value.

So that's kind of the models were pre-storms.

So they haven't done anything.

Nothing stormed right.

They there's there, and there's also part of that model, and the mayor and I talked about this today.

You'll take a fall because these properties are getting sold to distress sales.

But when these new properties two to three years down the road come online, you're gonna see a spike in property values because of new construction.

Oh, that'll help with the senior center.

Yeah, no, but that we it's gonna happen.

I mean, there's a big article about that.

That you know what's the silver lining of a storm?

Right.

And and I would expect that.

I was just wondering if they'd done any study yet.

Not that I'm aware of so the property value increase 3.91%.

That generates approximately 175,000 in additional revenue.

Your t your total tax revenues is six million nine hundred and sixty-six thousand, six hundred and eighty-six thousand dollars.

Now, here's what your taxes only property taxes only make up thirty-one, thirty-two percent of your revenues to operate the city.

And I know the chiefs are about to lose their mind because they know where the next slide goes.

Public safety alone is eight plus million dollars to maintain your own police and fire departments, you don't even collect enough property taxes.

So you're making it up from other resources within the city.

My fiscal focus as it's outlined, and we've outlined this since April, is to present millage rate, maintain the present millage rate.

Now we talk about our reserves.

You'd like to be within a six to first conservative speaking, you'd like to be in the 16 to 25 percent of your general fund balance.

You're at 24 percent.

Yes, ma'am.

Yeah, I'd like to keep it as exactly.

Well, that so do I, and that's why it's we're we're gonna 16s.

Well, that was a COVID number because we that provided two months worth of operations with the economic downturn.

We look we divided by 109, well, eight eight was sixteen.

Dividing by twelve.

Um then we you know, you can your operations, your physical, you're going through the process.

It you still have economic impacts from the storm.

And I use the word stimulus because it did trigger things.

You lost you've lost about 500,000 in revenues at the casino.

You've lost about 250,000 loss at the marina, the South Basin.

So we have to figure factor those into in our budget process public safety as I just spoke of the cost associated with that is a is a focus we have to make you know we want our police and fire department utility infrastructure your sanitary sewer system the ongoing sewers to date you've spent and I spoke of this earlier tonight 12 million five hundred and eighty seven but your private sewer lateral program that we've done for about the last six years you have given back to the residents 423 thousand dollars and that's a big impact when you were doing infiltration in I and I because that was happening in their backyards uh penny for penellis monies paving um parks facility improvements those are all coming from your penny your cost of of course your people cost and your implementation of storm recovery and restoration your I on your spreadsheet you see the four pay for that four projects major projects that are still we've started the Clan Bayou projects we're still going through the beach we're having to do things there the casino the casino dock those are all in permitting and army corps of engineers process and we're also at the point of having the engineers develop the replacement of the South Basin stabilization of utility and sanitation cost you adopted the plan eight eight and five and that's where we're looking at stable we talked a little bit about what St.

Petersburg did then you saw they went to nine I know you saw that they they so we we as vice mayor and I have spoken in the past we're we have we used the same consultant Stantec Mr Burnham and them so we had a pretty good idea where our numbers needed to be based on he gathers all the information from this area and he shares that with us plus St.

Petersburg tells us early on that because we're a customer and they bring us all in and say this is what we're gonna charge you or charge St.

PP each or because everyone has almost a different formula because St.

Pete Beach may have a different formula with that they negotiated at a different time than we did.

So ours are pretty stable and ours pretty much most times mirror the city of St.

Petersburg's this is what I've got to tell you this is the most exciting slide before we get into buying you know senior centers or center or stormwater drains your staff did a great job this is on I mean they listened to you mayor when we talked about times we're gonna change teams at times have got to get tight because we're looking at it your operating budget grew less than one percent that's amazing they they have moved monies they have done the things they've not asked for anything the first time we've had any conversation about adding people was here tonight they've maintained the staff levels now we're gonna remodel and down here you'll see the only changes proposed is community development we're gonna restructure that with the contractors and people doing other tasks but that was the only place we had any movement of people you'll see that um the people cost each in from council all the way down to the part-time employee at the marina scheduled receive a five percent raise but overall the people cost only grew 3.7 percent because we had some retirements had people changing and you know as this is part of the evolution of of your government you have a lot of long-term employees that are starting to reach age out for lack of a better term like the city attorney so a quick question yes ma'am so I understand why the picking on you I understand why the the difference between the 3.7 and the 5% yes ma'am but did we lose any positions no okay so the 3.7 is we've replaced anyone we lost from retirement has been replaced but at a little yes at a little the gentleman you met today in the utilities okay he he's been on the job less than a year okay the gentleman that retired had been here over 20 something years right okay the um health care insurance we talked about this before and when you approved it growing and I know I'll defer to council member early 1.5 percent in this industry is fabulous Shannon does a great job of managing it now that's for the fundamental base products that we offer the employees we're one of the few employers that do not require the employees to offset we're saving that if down the road we get in a big economic you're paying you're a full-time employees health insurance now they can buy a better payment 100 percent yes ma'am for them but for them they have to pay for the dependent care coverage exactly either dependent or family coverage one thing that we'll talk about is you have that that is a great benefit I know the council member will keep your mind they work at a health insurance company exactly so those are things that we can do and manage but you know there are there's it's a good process

If down the road we get in a big economy, you're paying your full-time employees health insurance.

Now they can buy a better product.

Yes, ma'am.

For them, but then they have to pay for the code.

Exactly, either dependent or family coverage.

One thing that we'll talk about is you have that.

That is a great benefit.

I know the council member will keep your mind, they work at a health insurance company.

Exactly.

So those are things that we can do and manage.

But you know, there are there's it's a good product, and we've talked I've talked to you individually about it.

The product, because you have people that may not make some of the numbers people banter about, if they were to get hit with a health insurance claim, it's devastating.

They'd never get out from under it.

Then we are Shannon's also been working, we maintained with all our storm claims the 10% property and casualty, and that's you know what I talk about the impact of weather weather related claims.

I there's no other way to say it.

Um Shannon's aggressively and worked with Tom and David to obtain the capital and city project funding, re reimbursement for storms, things like that.

We've done great.

You're gonna see a slide, the one you saw beginning of July.

You still owe approximately a million something dollars is still owed.

And that's not including the casino, the marina, and those bigger projects, because those will be insurance claims that then FEMA will backstop if we were to exceed certain things.

Did they pay our deductible?

Will FEMA pay our deductible?

We only have a thousand dollar deductible.

And when we talked earlier, you'd asked if it was flood insurance.

Our flood insurance is incorporated in our property and casualty.

Obtained capital and utility projects outside funding sources.

We'll talk about that a little bit later.

Um as I said before.

And what we use as a guideline, I spoke of a few minutes ago, is inflation.

We're trying to stay as close to the inflation rate as possible, because the loaf of price of loaf of bread for an employee goes up.

So we have to be cognizant of that.

So you'll see the Bureau of Labor Statistics published that for last month.

It was 2.6% in the Tampa Bay area.

Now, some council mayor or vice mayor Thanos has seen it.

We saw it where it was nine.

A couple of years ago, I gave you a where the consumer price index was nine inflation rate.

Where do you spend your money?

People operating in capital.

And this is the general fund.

One of the things that we'll talk a little bit about is in your general fund is kind of skewed this year because it has two projects in it that councils in the past and the vice mayor and that have championed.

The right here is the variance is based on two projects.

The marina south basin restrooms.

Early on, we when we were talking about doing other things down at the marina, that was a budgeted item.

And also library initial was to input solar panels on the uh library.

One one thing that we've discovered with any of the solar panel is the what will the roof support.

Vice Mayor and I had a brief conversation regarding expecting other buildings to possibly do it at those.

But that's something council would we would talk about, bring that back to you.

If but my recommendation at this point, due to the fact that you do not, and this is remember this started as we went through the summer process, and now we've got the Lions Club and the Coast Guard Building equation, is to hold off on the marina south basin restrooms, and we'll talk about that as we go forward.

There this is by department on your slides where you where it's allocated, and you'll see that primarily, once again, chiefs, public safety, administration, does everything we do.

Recreation, senior center, those are all in those categories anyone has any questions.

That's where you're spending your money.

Okay, we'll move on.

One thing that we have been very successful over the last few years is we've accumulated quite a bit of outside funding.

And this totals about 13 million dollars right here.

Now the next slide is poor indicative, more indicative of a lot of appropriations, a lot of things that we've worked on, a lot of narratives that we've had to write ourselves, and also as the mayor spoke of earlier with the engineers helping us out identify, because they as the mayor spoke of the benefit for them is when they identify a funding source, you're gonna use you're gonna hire their firm to do the work.

So there's a direct correlation between that grants were over what period?

Over about the last six, seven years, some of them.

Um we look at it.

Now there's a few that are went back a little bit, was the C D B G, and that carried over between different places.

That was the 49th, not 49th Street.

That was down the beach as we made progress and we did some bigs, and we had other funding sources coming in.

Because understand with the waterfront redevelopment, you had TIFF monies.

So you had monies for batches.

There's the It's all gone.

Yeah, it's it's not all gone.

Yeah.

It we have some monies in here, and you're gonna see that when I show you the slide, the capital slide that says has the dollars in it.

Things like that.

What I would we'll get to that, but that's the sizable funds that you'll see.

The two big ones are the congressional appropriations that we worked with for uh the respective congressperson, and as we go down, you'll see the we had Brownfield's monies that we did trolley market square with, a lot of those things.

So these have been happening over the last six years or seven years.

So in the ones that are current are the town shores water lines, yes, but that's this year.

And the 58th year.

Yes, ma'am.

That's your new your budget because they backed up with that project, is that'll be back in your capital, your penny list, because your match is in there, your paving monies for that, so that'll be carried over also, like we talked about today, Mayor, those reappropriation monies, though the 58th Street will get reappropriated.

Yeah, because I drove because what what blocks is it on 58th?

From 15th Avenue to 22nd.

Because I drove home on that Sunday night.

It was terrible.

I mean, I thought my car was gonna stall out.

No, and that's what we're yep.

No, public staff, your staff does a good job of identifying where it needs to be spent.

Yes, ma'am.

When we do when we do the street there, are we going to do the stormwater?

Because we're digging up the street.

No, you're just doing the sh the street.

You're rebuilding the street, but you're not putting any pipe in.

But how much are we how deep are we going in this street?

You're taking it down to the to the base level.

So we'd have to go even deeper if we were going to do it.

If you were going to do any of the stormwater projects.

Would we have to if we were going to do a stormwater project there?

Would we have to dig up the street again, or does it go along the sideway?

We would more than likely go along the side like it is now.

Okay.

Because if you go north, south north, south of uh 11th Avenue, you have large-sized pipes.

Part of the issues that you run into is you have larger pipes because that was the most newest project.

That was done in the north of 11th.

That started 11th down to 22, I want to say about 18th or 90.

You see where it backs up.

Is those were done in 1970s.

It's a much larger.

We got big pipes coming down to about 18th.

And some of it even pushing back to 15th.

Yes.

And to 22nd.

Yes, ma'am.

And that's where they well, at least that's some pipe we don't have to replace.

Council member, you remember they they put the bigger pipe in north up there.

This is your capital, you're penny for Pinellis monies.

We had talked about reallocating in the past, some reapportion 49th Street, because we're waiting on St.

Petersburg to give us the interlocal agreement.

And you know, I know people make comments here a lot of times.

Think government takes log.

That government takes a lot longer.

So there that's pretty much you've identified in the past, out of your penny monies, you do pay, and this is a very significant thing.

You pay your loan, your state revolving loan fund.

Now, what you can look at down the road as the state revolve loan, if they have stormwater loans, you could commit your penny money to offset to make that payment if you chose to go in.

We would look for funding a state.

Again, please.

Um so there that's pretty much you've identified in the past out of your penny monies you do pay and this is a very significant thing you pay your load your state revolving loan fund now what you can look at down the road as the state revolving loan if they have stormwater loans you could commit your penny money to offset to make that payment if you chose to go in we would look for funding a state again please if you you could commit you have you'll have additional penny monies as the economy grows to go get revol uh a government program that funds infrastructure and borrow it and then pay the the debt with your penny money that's what we're doing with the sanitary sewer system so you're what you're suggesting is that's a way yes for the drainage system exactly okay so we're already paying this much to finish the sanitary yes okay but if we start seeing increases we could have that yes yes you could use that money to all you could commit dedicate that monies to offsetting the stormwater improvements you hope to make and I don't see any police vehicles or other we talked about that we bought those this year uh and we changed them and we said when we bought them because at a time lag we would save the money and do that two years from now.

Well that's because somebody found the great deal on them right exactly Chief Farron did a great job.

I thought that was who did it and even we buy and Vice Mayor you had given me a pamphlet earlier tonight.

That's how we buy them through the sheriff's contract.

Yeah.

This is the um general fund appro uh excuse that was the library and we talked about that those other two projects which are in the general fund.

Um and those were the ARPA projects that we identified WRD now I know there's probably not a support and I'm not I'm gonna recommend to you that you remove the bollards okay and use that money towards your four your senior center change orders we'll get a price and we'll yes how soon do you think we could hear from Luna whether we could use well now I'm gonna reach out to them this week and talk to them and see what we how much do we have left of that what we're I'd have to check.

I think I it's probably I would say we bought a lot of uh soil sa earth soil samples environmental work so I would say it's probably less than a million dollars.

Okay but that's probably another it's more yeah yeah for for anything we need to do with in the future right if they'll agree to that yeah but I'm gonna say right now you have that nine you have the bollard monies I would reappropriate that because the other is more flexible.

Exactly this is your money right here so you could do that.

This is uh sanitation this is just an inventory asset software control sanitation is unique in the fact that you only want to generate enough to buy equipment pay your people in general that's how we keep our cost out.

So we'll wait to buy a truck till as we build up fund balance.

Yes ma'am so one thing I noticed and I might be wrong we we can but when I looked in here for the revenue for sanitary right for sanitary or sanitation you mean sanitation for so garbage collection right what we collect for that.

It was not quite five hundred thousand okay but our budget for sanitation is three point four million right and so I think we need to look at outsourcing that well that's something you all that's a council decision.

Right I understand but I'm I'm just saying because when we've looked at this before it wasn't popular and I get that but um we could save three million three million you're not gonna save it because you're not gonna get the revenue no I know I'm saying I'm netting I'm netting it out oh okay to three million dollars we would save and we wouldn't people wouldn't lose their jobs people wouldn't pay more and we could outsource it and save three million dollars that's a council discussion at some point I'm just curious how would they not lose their jobs if we outsource just the companies that would come into here need more staff to cover us they take our staff and hire them that's a guarantee that's not in the contract.

Yeah it's a good but you'd have employee you'll have well they they'd have the benefits whatever that company gives them of course which are a lot different than they wouldn't lose their job.

I mean they would have a job okay but I know that was one of the issues of people getting kicked out of that's a council happen.

That's a council decision that you I would just want to point that out though because that's a place where we could save a chunk.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

And we would show you the net and what are expenses because most of it's tipping fees and people and you wouldn't the biggest savings you would have is buying equipment in the future.

Well and hopefully they would even buy because we just spent 300 thousand I think on a sanitation truck hopefully they would even buy that.

If you don't want to meet and that would be it's pretty simple if you want to be in the sanitation and there's no guarantee it being cheaper that's the one thing and the level of service.

Well that's not what they tell me but they're salespeople and I'll be the salespeople you have to check with other cities how they work.

Yeah, I pay, I have a private provider, and I pay more than the city of Gulfport does.

The um utility fund, this is your transfer in from the penny that offsets your state revolving loan fund monies.

You're buying the second phase of the you've put all electronic water meters in.

Now this is gonna be the electronic software and the tower that you'll have that'll read the meters remotely.

This is the hurricane expenses and what we've recovered.

You saw this in the beginning of July.

It's where we're at.

We're still waiting on a few million dollars.

Now I as I said before, not the casino, not the not the South Base, and knows there will all be insurance claims that we'll recover later.

This is more debris pickup and the cost incurred.

So this is money that we've already put out, and now we're waiting for reimbursement.

Not to complete things that we haven't touched yet.

Exactly.

So that that's pretty looks pretty darn good to me.

Sure.

No, Shannon's done a great job.

It's Shannon tonight.

So this $7 million that we've got still out, that came out of our reserve, right?

Well, that you don't have seven million.

You spent it, and then you've received most of it back.

Oh, we have a okay.

That's what we're talking about.

Shannon, do you you've received how much in reimbursement today?

Uh total reimbursements today, $6.7 million dollars.

Yes, you have a million dollars out in transient.

You've received six out of the eight million dollars, you've received six point seven back.

Okay, I get you.

Okay.

And that's the reconstruction projects we keep talking about.

Future budget pressures.

It's a pressure to keep it at 24 percent.

You're working on it, you're in a good place at present.

You know, we pride ourselves on that.

Umreases, the growth in property values is as we said, it's gonna be a couple of years before it starts moving up substantially.

The reduced revenues from the city from the marina and the casino.

Public safety collective bargaining units.

Those are contracts that we have labor contracts with the IAF and the PBA, or it's PBA still, right?

Yeah, PBA.

Um now here's two that we're gonna talk a little bit about.

The Lions Club, they've exercised their right for to not come back to renew their lease.

Subsequently, we voted a separate appraisal because it's 50 percent of the actual cash value of just the building.

So we have ordered a separate new appraisal.

We had what done prior to the storms.

We thought it was in our best interest to have what done now.

Where we'll go with that, but the demolition, the Coast Guard building, we've they're up the Coast Guard Auxiliary has moved their radio operations to the marina building because it's a much smaller scale than it used to be when they first started.

So we're we've brought them on board, Commander Bush and that group will come out work out of the marina upstairs and things like that.

Do we have any idea what demolition costs will be?

We estimate the 30 to 40,000 dollar range for both of them for one each, huh?

Each each.

And I would that's where I would recommend using monies that you have set aside for the restrooms and that towards that.

And then we'll get a better number, but we'll just budget for that.

Um you have uh let me look at that lion's club, and then we go to uh for um reimbursements.

That's that million dollars we're talking about it.

We don't, you know, Shannon will tell you she's got storm monies coming in from uh Milton from the insurance company.

Yeah, and things like that.

So and then um state and federal funding.

This is we anticipate we've all heard the horror stories, that monies will not be as prevalent as they once were.

Now it depends on what they do with property taxes, what there's a lot of moving parcels, but we have to be conscious of that when we go long-term planning.

And the uh department, and I'm gonna say it.

We talked a little bit by council member.

You and I talked a little bit about this, and what you learned at the at the League of Cities.

It's gonna have an impact.

One way or the other, it's gonna have an impact.

Whatever they decide, even right now, if they were to come here and go to the deep dive that they're doing in some of the other cities.

That has an impact because of the number of staff and time it takes just to do it.

So that's can I just ask you?

Sure.

Um I know you don't have an exact figure for the Lions Club until we get the new uh appraisal appraisal.

But have we budgeted for that in no and the demolition isn't budgeted on the other?

None of that's budget because all this took place after I had to give you a proposed budget.

I had to give you a proposed budget by July 15th.

But but will it be in the September 15th?

Yes.

Yeah, if I have my I will worst case scenario, I'll use my other number and and then it's a if it's higher.

Right.

But we didn't know that was good.

That was a you know, people went out of town that were needed permits and all that good stuff.

I had to say that there.

I heard Jim.

You notice I didn't make eye contact.

You did look up.

So that's what I have.

I'll be happy to have any any questions.

Well, also the sand that we're gonna have to rebuy.

Right.

Um that'll be on our we already approved the retaining part of that.

Right, right.

That's a separate project.

Right.

So that's already, and that that's is that in this budget?

Yeah, that's in no, that is in your storm in last year's with your storm damage and all that.

Okay.

So the new amount for sand would still be it'll still be in this year's budget.

In this year's current the new what we're oh no, it'll be in this year.

This year's budget.

And is it is it something we can were we getting reimbursed for that first?

Well, there's some discussion with the Army Corps and SFIBA about that.

We don't know yet.

Okay.

That's one of those projects that's been submitted.

We don't know what they're but you have monies there because you still have some fund balance in the WRD.

Okay.

So let's go in speaking order now, because you've kind of completed, correct?

Yes, ma'am.

Let's go in speaking order.

Um additional questions you might have uh of Jim, any clarifications that you don't have anything that that's your concern that's not in the budget or that you think's in the budget, and you don't necessarily not not because everything's gonna change based on what one person says, but you know, just kind of sharing some ideas here, uh, what your thoughts are.

So um well, my first thought is to say thank you so much to staff and to Mr.

O'Reilly for uh working so hard on the proposed budget, and I really appreciate this this slide presentation as well.

Um that really puts it a lot of it in one place.

Um admittedly, um I was finding it challenging to review a proposed budget without actual year ends and year-to-date figures.

I'm used to working with those and projected expenses and the remaining months and GLs and all that, but they've put so much of this together, and uh and and Mr.

O'Reilly's been very gracious with his time and going over so much of this with me, and I think it's very clear as to what our priorities are going to be.

Um, you know, uh, you know, the stormwater and the the senior center, um, some of these other things that that people have talked to me about.

Um, you know, I I think those will probably fit into the line items generally anyways.

Um I I was kind of hoping that you know we could maybe do some initial steps on the uh mooring balls because that's gonna take a number of years.

Um if if there's a consensus we could yeah, uh and and he's already assured me we're working on a bulkhead for the casino and things to help protect that.

So um I'm I'm happy about that.

Um we're gonna be continuing with a lot of the infrastructure, which is extremely important to me, so that's fine with me as well.

Um let's see.

Yeah, I I think that that pretty much covers it as far as you know my concerns.

We've we've we've talked extensively about it.

So unless there's there's more discussion that leads me to have questions.

I I'm I I'd like to go to the next speaker.

Can I get a consensus?

Would you like could we get the planning funds if we have if we can find them for the mooring field?

Just the planning funds.

Can we use WRD money?

No.

Because it's gotta be we'll we'll find it.

It'll be money, WRD money has to be spent in a WRD.

But the water is right there.

Let me let me research it and see if we can.

So close.

So close.

Uh I I'm certainly in favor of that because I was in favor of it years ago.

Not only is it a management scenario, but it's also going to be a revenue source when we get there.

Yes, ma'am.

We we had started even the initial plan that we wrote the plan for was for a hundred mooring balls, as you know.

Right.

And we have 25.

So certainly if we even if it's incremental, I'll be happy.

Okay, that's fine.

Yep.

So I also appreciate all this information from what we talked about when you first explained it to me, knowing that we want to focus on storm drains.

So that was well.

Well, I think what you're gonna do, and I'm don't mean that I know you everyone has comments, is once you get your plan, we can look at your penny money, how you allocate that once you get your plan and what what type matches you're gonna need.

Because we know some of these are gonna be you're gonna have to have a match for a lot of these grant programs.

So that's something we'll come back to you because we uh as I was explaining to the mayor today.

The penny money, we've not we in the past we've seen better numbers, but till the economy shuffles out, so you may have 1.5 in penny money or some capital money that you can put $500,000 towards your stormwater project, things like that.

So we estimate low, and hopefully we get higher revenues.

And I'd rather budget it that way because I know I can meet these demands.

Yep.

Who um who's our grant?

Who applies for the grants on our team?

We do on the team specifically myself and Tom.

You do, okay.

And the engineers and that's $13 million.

I I write the narratives most times, Tom does the detail work.

Thank you.

And the $13 million that's probably a little bit higher than a city of our size, isn't it?

And that's what we've seen.

And Mike Taylor helps.

Mike Taylor does a lot of the writing because like the emergency generators and the harding at City Hall, Mike Taylor did that.

So we spread that out.

But primarily I write a lot of the narratives.

Nice job.

Um no, I have I have no other comments.

We've spoken about it.

I know everybody does a great job.

Shannon's going to make it.

She's doing good.

Yes, so thank you.

I'm good.

Thank you.

AI.

She uses AI.

I I have a lot of questions.

But I won't go through those now.

Um the biggest ones are I know that we're gonna have to pay um retainers to, I think to the comp the companies that we have to because of SB 180, we we have to pay, you know, for um permitting inspecting and college.

We we have to pay them a retainer.

Well, we'll see what their proposals say.

But there's no retainer.

Like in the past when we had to when we we got already, you know, we we did that already for haulers.

Right.

So how did we have to pay them a retainer?

No.

So they just they just guarantee that they'll be here and then we pay them when they come.

Exactly.

Because I was gonna wonder if we budgeted for those retainers.

And if that's and I'll have time between when you see it on September 3rd, because we'll see what the numbers, how they want to be billed in that with the September 26 results.

Right.

Uh and that's two different things.

The one the county, the county list that you're talking about with 180, is just you enter it just like the haulers.

Okay.

So you enter an agreement, but you don't have to pay anything up.

Until you use them.

Okay.

And then for the for the permitting department, where we're gonna be paying them so it won't cost us money up front, like you're doing with the people that we're paying now.

Right.

They'll take a portion of the permit fees.

But that still means that'll be a portion of the permit fees we don't have to pay for our permit people.

And I understand that.

And that's till I get that proposal, because we've asked them to bid it both ways, an hourly or a fee or a percentage fee.

We'll then go back once we get those numbers, because whatever percentage it changes, the number, what we would do is say, okay, you're gonna lose maybe 20.

They they and I'm just whatever.

Yeah.

75 percent of the permit fees.

Right.

You have 25.

Yes.

You will lose that segment.

So hopefully you're still paying for your planners and you're still paying for your building, your community development director, those things are already budgeted.

What we're looking at is to offset that loss of revenue by not hiring inspectors, not hiring an additional plan reviewer.

So that's where we're looking to offset it.

Because you have right now in your budget, you have two inspectors.

Right, that's right.

And that's what how we would move those dollars to offset.

And or if you took them out of the budget, it's less expensive.

You lower your expense or increase your revenue.

So at least we have a placeholder for that.

Exactly.

And that's what you'll see in community development, a lot of placeholders.

But there is a position.

The the number of employees has not changed, but it still includes those two inspectors.

But it still includes those two inspectors.

It also upgrades the to a floodplain manager.

Right.

If he was to pass the test.

Yes.

Those are all in your in your budget.

But the number of employees and the people cost have not been.

So the placeholder is the inspectors.

Right.

And and not hiring an additional permit reviewer.

Okay.

And then it was my understanding that our stormwater study was going to be done this December.

So when they say fall, it's really winter.

And um I know we talked about asking them to do it faster.

Right.

I can only ask.

I know, but we haven't heard yet.

But really it it is December that they're planning on coming back to us, not the fall.

Just so you know because you were talking all.

No, I I I know, because I talked to Tom Nichols yesterday, and he actually had talked to him the day before and said every day, week, and month matters.

Yes.

Yes, it does.

Absolutely.

And you know, those were right.

Nobody will commit to it.

Right, I understand.

And and before we leave tonight, if we can talk about when we can get together to talk about more of the details, but I definitely agree that it'll be good to have the final figures for 24 when when we get the um budget for the 15th.

And um, and I agree that in the future it would be really nice to have year-to-date figures because that gives you something concrete to look at.

And is that it?

Yeah, that's it.

Okay, cool.

Well, it's common practice.

I was looking at this year to date, what we do is give you the actuals from 2024.

I'd I'd like to the actuals for 24 and our year-to-date figures.

Okay.

Because that gives you it it's more clear because right now sometimes we have something that's an actual for 23 that might be $2,000.

And for 24, 25, and 26, we're budgeting seven.

Okay.

Is it really two?

Is it three?

Is it five?

Is it seven?

That's fine.

And again, when we're talking little bits of money that we can save towards the senior center or for stormwater stuff, it matters.

Okay.

That's fine.

Okay.

So here's the thoughts that I have and the questions along with.

So I I knew that we were probably going to take out the bollards, and I'm totally okay with that.

That's $75,000.

That's a lot of money to me.

I think that the ones that we have now on that one strip are really important, and I would like to see them stay there.

Sure.

Um, some of the other places is you go up beach, we have such an inconsistency, and I question that we even need the uh what do you what's the proper term for the curb stop?

The I I question that in some cases that we even need that curb stop, and if it's not uh creating a tripping hazard.

So I'm okay with that uh and reusing that money differently.

I personally would be totally okay with postponing the restrooms.

And you know, I've been fighting for and trying to get more restrooms for some time now, but um if we're not gonna have that South Basin open, then there's no reason for us to be spending that money right now on that.

You know, for us to be able to coordinate and have that done around the same time, I think would be real important.

And the ther third one that I I want to raise a little bit was the um the library solar panel project to the tune of three hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

If I had to make a choice between spending three hundred and fifty thousand dollars today to improve some things to help us, quote, limp along on drainage as opposed to the solar.

Uh it would be an easy decision for me.

I would I would say because we're talking about when we get this study in December, we know we're looking at some big, big big bucks.

And I and we've talked about it, and I know we're gonna figure it out, and I know you have some of the answers already.

But between now and us hearing that and hearing what the big big big bucks are, we need already to be taking action today.

We cannot, I know for the big items that are going to all be intertwined and s save our city.

I understand that that's not going to happen until next spring.

But we we have to take some actions now.

Plus, that requires a root a roof improvement to even be able to put the solar panel on.

And I don't think that's our pressing issue right now.

I think our pressing issue is drainage, so I want to throw that out there.

I don't know what others are going to think about that.

Um second thing is when we talk about the reserves, and I said this to the city manager earlier today, but I wanted to put it on record and and say it to everybody.

That being said, I would never want to dip into the reserves for the senior center.

Okay.

But I would be very willing to jump in to dip into the reserves marginally for a drainage issue.

Because that's that is talking about saving our city.

Senior center is not going to save our city or not, okay?

But drainage is.

Okay.

I'm talking this 350 maybe for today.

But in terms of um if we had to start dipping into that and got that a little bit less, I know that's not what we want.

But on the same time, here's the difference, guys.

In the past, we talked about either the floods coming down the streets from heavy rains, or we talked about flooding coming from the tide, okay.

This time, the only area that we didn't have major complaints about flooding was the marina area, isn't that interesting?

But we had Stetson flooded, we had people talking now about being on the far north side of the town flooded.

I've read about 15th Avenue, how bad it was flooded, 58th, 53rd, uh 22nd Avenue, even 22nd Avenue, which I haven't really seen it flooded since they were redoing it.

So I mean, I have to say Mother Nature has dealt us a lot of rain in the last what six weeks?

A lot.

We are saturated.

But you know, with the storms that are coming.

So I I just wanted to throw out there that if push came to shove, I would be willing to look at funds that we think we're keeping in reserve if that's what it's gonna take to get some issues going on drainage today that will not be we won't be recreating the wheel when we get the big solutions.

These are like the little solutions to help us limp along.

Um another thing that because April raised a question about um sanitation.

So when I'm doing this program that I have coming up September 23rd called Gallport 2050, I'm gonna be asking a lot of questions.

And one of my questions is gonna be what services will you go to the end of the earth to protect, and what services do you not feel that way about?

What additional services do you want the city to provide?

What services do we provide that you don't care that much about?

I mean, that comes in.

So I am not I I'm not prepared to do anything on that today.

I also like some of the things we've heard from our public about how often we get uh sanitation pickup.

I also come from a community where we did buy our bike our bags and you paid based on how much you produced.

So, but I think that I would really like to hear, because this uh Gallport 2050 is not gonna be about me talking, it's gonna be about me asking the questions and listening to what the results are, and of course I'll be excited to uh share all that with you.