Good evening.

Good evening.

And welcome to the February 17th Gulfport City Council meeting.

Glad to see y'all here on this beautiful evening.

So tonight we will, if you have your phone on, please turn it off.

And you know, I always say if you need to have a side conversation, I understand, but just step into the lobby, please.

I appreciate that.

And we will start off tonight with the call to order.

That's me, and then we're gonna go to invocation.

But what we're gonna do tonight is we're gonna do the invocation, and then we're gonna do a moment of silence, and then we'll do a pledge of allegiance.

Okay, so remain standing if you will.

We're gonna do a moment of silence for both uh Reverend Jesse Jackson as well as the victims of the mass shooting in Rhode Island yesterday.

Okay.

A quote by excuse me, a quote by Reverend Jesse Jackson, may he rest in peace.

The great responsibility that we have today is to put the poor and the near poor back into the front of the American agenda.

Undergone thank you.

And then with that, we'll do a roll call.

Councilmember Early.

Present.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Here.

Councilmember Shaw.

Present.

Councilmember Jackson here.

Mayor Love.

Here.

City Attorney Salzman?

Here.

City Manager O'Reilly.

Here.

City Clerk Carico is present.

Thank you.

So we have one presentation tonight.

We're very lucky we're gonna kick off with a presentation from one of Gulfport's own.

Priscilla Kitter is going to do a presentation for us.

She's working on trying to obtain a grant for the city of Gulfport, and her presentation will be on passive shorelines.

If you will please, Miss Kidder.

And because it's recorded, try to talk into the mic.

I will.

And you can.

Thank you so much for having me here tonight and allowing me to speak.

Tonight, as Mayor Love said, I would like to speak about living shorelines.

We have a picture up there.

My name's Priscilla Kidder.

I've been a Gulfport resident for over 40 years.

And we've all been affected by the hurricanes here in Gulfport and storms and various other storm surge events.

Tonight I'd like to talk about a hybrid living shorelines for Gulfport.

What are they?

How does it work?

And what can it do for the city of Gulfport?

So thinking ahead 50 years, what can we do to make our bay healthier?

What can we do to protect the city infrastructure?

Pictured here is the new constructed seawall down in front of Veterans Park.

And I'm asking tonight that the city support applying for a Tampa Bay grant for restoring that area with a living shoreline or a hybrid living shoreline.

Why?

A hybrid living shoreline will take care of erosion.

It will protect the seawall.

But I've I visited many of them.

We have Maximo Park, Felipe Park and Safety Harbor, Lassing Park.

I participated in putting oyster bags in there.

The oyster bags, what they do is first of all, the oyster domes will recruit oyster spat, which gather up on them, and the oysters will filter the water.

I think a lot of us know that oysters do filter water, and that's the main benefit of a healthy ecosystem.

One oyster can filter up to 50 gallons of water per day.

One little guy.

So that's a pretty big deal when you have perhaps like a hundred of them crusted on one dome.

Oyster domes come in different sizes depending on the project.

This project in front of Veterans Park is about 180 linear feet.

It's a smallish project, very visible to our city, used in a park that's heavily used.

People can see it.

So it's a really positive thing for our city.

The oyster bags provide sand and soil stabilizations.

They would be in front of more shoreward of oyster domes.

And those bags would, when the water washes in, like we have this storm and it brings in sand and sediment, it's all murky, all that sand and sediment instead of washing back away, gets trapped in there and creates more shoreline and actually grows a shoreline.

This particular picture is Lassing Park.

I helped put those bags in, and then you can see the domes on the left side of the photo.

And if you it's hard to see from this photo, but it was very remarkable that where they stopped putting the the living shoreline where it ended, there was 50 to 75 feet of erosion landward.

So that actually grew ashore.

So it actually accreted more shoreline, which is what we want with sea level rise.

We want more shoreline.

We don't want it to keep eroding and keep eroding and until it just is right at our doorstep.

The shore grass, that's vegetation.

A lot of times they use Spartina or smooth cord grass.

This would be, we would work with a coastal engineer.

This would be a fully permitted project with a coastal engineer.

And they would suggest what grasses, and those are up close to the seawall.

So the seawall in Veterans Park would have in front of it vegetation, and that grass grows to about this high, you know, depending.

And once it fills in, they would plant it, it would fill in.

The more it fills in, the more stable the soil is.

The roots hold the soil down.

There's also better drainage because the roots are more porous and they push into the ground so you know everything can drift down.

The other thing I forgot to mention was stormwater runoff.

So there's a big pipe that comes in there now that we've created for that to bring in the stormwater runoff.

So that's bringing pollutants and nitrogen into the bay.

It just does.

And these seagrasses and shore grasses will take that up and umitrify the stormwater runoff, making our bay even cleaner.

So you've got the oysters filtering it, the shore grasses there, and then those little oyster bags holding the soil.

Um another mention about the little oyster bags.

Some people have said, oh, but they're using plastic.

So this project, I've spoken with Tampa Bay Watch.

I've met with them, I've met with a Sea Grant agent down in Manatee County a few times.

I've taken a class the past year and a half, I've studied this topic, taken a class for marine contractors for short living shorelines, and walked through the permitting process, how they plan them, practice planning.

So I've done a lot of research on that, and I've learned from everybody.

Obviously, I'm not an expert.

This is city property.

The city would be the one to have control over this project.

I'm asking for permission to submit the grant for this project.

And the grant brings me to Tampa Bay Environmental Restoration Fund.

I just call it T Burf, and then I forget what it's called.

Sorry about it.

I'm like T burff.

Um this grant is offered once a year.

It's very popular.

They do so many projects.

I'm sure you've seen them all over the whole Tampa Bay area.

This year's budget is about $800,000.

Typical grants are somewhere between 25 to 250,000.

It's a one-to-one funding match, which I know, Mr.

O'Reilly, you are probably all aware of how that works.

The funding can be in-kind goods or services, which means the city workers, we can use that.

Um volunteer hours, we can use that for the in-kind match.

So that would take any a lot of the cash outflow to match for the city out of the arena.

And in my meeting with Tampa Bay Watch, they also have a really great program called Bay Grasses in Classes.

And what they would plan to do for the vegetation is they have middle and high school students that grow shore grass, such as Spartina, smooth cord grass, and that's part of their science research class.

They grow that, that's volunteer hours.

Then they would go out and plant it in the parks, and they've done this in several parks, and that's also part of the volunteer hours for the in-kind match.

So there's and also the the reef balls, um, Tampa Bay Watch has volunteers make those, pour them, crack them open.

I've done that too.

That's heavy work.

Let me tell you.

Um, and that would also be volunteer hours.

So there's a real heavy um in kind match already built in working with Tampa Bay Watch.

Um, TBRF, if you have any more questions about that, um, I can get you the answers.

Tampa Bay Watch.

Uh I just discussed them.

If you and the contact for them would be Sarah Herndon.

Um, like I said, they have evaluated the site.

I met them down there and asked if it was even possible to do something like this, and what they would suggest.

She and Rick Radigan were both really excited about the prospect of having something like that here.

They love working in a hyperlocal venue.

Um, they've done, like I said, in Safety Harbor, but they're located out on Tierra Verde, if you've seen them.

And um they they're excited to do something really local and small and visible.

So tonight I am asking the council to support um applying for this grant.

I would do the grant application in conjunction with the parks department and the city manager and the public works or whoever the city manager would deem necessary to apply for the grant and have the city sign off on the grant.

Um the city would have control over what they would like to see there.

You know, they would if they said I don't want this, but I want that, or whatever.

This would be a three-phase project.

Phase one would be design and permit process, and that would be a 12-month um phase, and that would be working with a coastal engineer, applying for the permits.

It would be county and state and army corps of engineer, possibly.

Um, and that would also be you know how the city wants to design it, what the coastal engineer says, etc.

etc.

Phase two.

So that would bring us the grant wouldn't be awarded till June or July of this summer.

So that would bring us to next 2027, probably August of 2027 would be the implementation phase where Tampa Bay Watch would come out and with their volunteers and the student volunteers and put in the living shoreline.

And that would be about four months.

Um phase three would be to have the uh monitoring phase and data collection.

And the TBERF grant really loves to see data.

What grew, what didn't grow grow?

Were there oysters, you know, were there more oysters?

Did they recruit onto the oyster domes?

How's the shoreline?

What's the water?

You know, things like that.

And they would um want that for about 12 months, which is which is a really good thing to have.

We could see it.

This would also position the city favorably if in the future we would like to get resilience grants.

Those grants, they look at have you been doing resilience work?

You know, it's also you know, a positive.

So tonight that's what I would like to ask the council to support my applying for this grant um with the city who would be in control of it and see what happens and hope for the best.

It's about protecting what Gulf Court already has and preparing for what's coming next.

If you have any questions, I'll try to answer them.

Well, we're so lucky to have you.

So thank you.

Oh, for bringing all of your knowledge here.

I was doing the the math, so three it mentioned on the second slide.

I think that we have three years.

And what you said was about 22 months.

So there is a little bit of buffer there.

I was just wanted to wonder.

Right.

Uh you're correct.

Thank you for that.

The TBRF, the limitation is three years to get it done now.

If there's mitigating circumstances, say we get a hurricane smash into us within that.

They will adjust.

Exactly.

And it seemed like you have about eight months to play with anyway.

So we have a lot of time.

It's a small project.

It really would only take like the four months to get it installed.

The the biggest hurdle at the beginning would be the design and permitting.

Okay.

Yeah, the longest one.

Okay.

Thank you.

No other questions from me.

Do we know how much the the project would cost, or we do we just build within the amount of money they give us?

Um in this phase, applying for the grant, the grant is due by March 25th.

Um if you are in favor of this tonight, I would start working with well, I've already started working with Tampa Bay Watch and they have given me some rough numbers.

I don't want to say what, but I know they've said about a hundred and ten umes a certain ton of shell um reef balls, et cetera.

And they haven't given me any straight numbers yet.

What I would have to do is get with them after if you if it's approved tonight, then I'd get the nitty-gritty and get with whoever in the city needs to see all of that.

And then the city would have to say, well, no or yes, we can do this.

This is our in-kind match, this is how much we have in our budget, this is what we want, this is what we don't want, and then work within that structure.

I can't do that.

And the coastal engineer would have to say, yeah.

That would be the permitting.

The permitting and coastal engineer would come if we were awarded the grant.

And in the grant, we will say, depending on the coastal engineers suggestions and all of that, you know, plans, that's how we would do it.

So you apply for the grant in general.

Oh, okay, I get it.

And then, but they do want a budget, and we would create a budget for that.

So that will have to be known before.

And this it sounds like it fits in really nicely with the Tampa Bay Regional Planning, doing a coastal master plan.

So that's correct.

Yes, it will.

And and the movement, this has all been researched by University of Florida.

I have so many documents.

A lot of those from you.

I've pulled some of the info from them.

If you want the rest of the document, I can email it to you, but there's they're so um dense with like and to me, it's like reading them is like, huh?

So I didn't print out all of them, but if anyone's more interested, I'll be happy to email you any information that I've learned.

Thank you.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing and receiving the email information.

Oh, okay.

I'll be happy to send it to you.

And so would would would then the the budget information and those types of details come back to us so we understand the financial responsibility on our end?

That would be up to when if I applied for the grant, I think it would be in conjunction with you.

And what we would do is during once we have a project estimate, we'll then look at it during our budgeting process.

But until we, as Ms.

Kidder said, until we get the budget number, then we can look at what our share would be.

Okay.

All right.

Right.

I haven't done a whole bunch of heavy lifting on actually getting those down to the nitty-gritty because I had to wait until you know it was approved.

If it's approved.

Well, you and I have talked about this before, and you know I'm very enthusiastic about it.

So this is this is very exciting to be talking about it and feel like we're moving in that direction now.

Thank you.

And we spent a lot of money on our infrastructure in Gulfport, and I think we need to protect it.

Seawalls degrade after a while, but this is a way we can take and make our seawalls last longer.

We can clean our water, clean our air, create bay habitat, and habitat really needs all of these elements in there.

Oysters are extremely important for that.

Well, I've read reports that even the Army Corps of an Inj Engineers is very much more in favor for uh the soft hardening uh compared to the past because they always wanted seawalls and building them higher, and now they're looking more towards correct.

That's out the window.

And as a matter of fact, at my meeting last Friday or last Thursday with um Armando Ubeda, the Sea Grant agent, he showed me a video that his footage was put in there, and he that was from the Army Corps of Engineers saying this is what we need to do now, this is where the research is pointing us.

And after the hurricanes, I personally felt like how can we help our city?

I love our city and I want to protect it.

And um when I started digging and digging, I was like, this has been the answer.

Everything points to creating, you know, more routes, plants, oysters in the bay, et cetera, creating a good ecosystem.

Thank you, Priscilla.

All right.

Oh, thank you.

Council member I think this is really awesome.

And um, I'd love to see this in Gulfport.

So I really support this, and I think you did an awesome job with your research.

Thank you.

And in the research, this was just published, and I have a copy of my own that's all tabbed out.

Very dense reading.

Don't unless you need something to go to sleep.

Lots of pictures though.

And I'm gonna donate this copy to the Gulfport Library.

I thought I saw Dave Mather here, but if I don't know if I can leave it here for to get to the Oh, I'll give it to Teresa.

Okay, and I'll leave it for you guys because it's a really great book, and um a lot of really smart people who've done a lot of research, put work into this book.

So I have a copy, and now Gulfport Library has a copy.

Thank you so much.

I just want to say that um I'm so glad that you came here.

I'm glad that you reached out.

And really, this is an example of what I love about Golfport when somebody sees a problem, figures out the solution, and brings it to us and says, I just need approval to do this.

It is so totally different than some of the approaches we get.

So thank you very much.

Thank you.

And I know you all love Gulfport or else you wouldn't be sitting there.

But we're all on the same page.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Sure, do we have to have a consensus?

I think we just did a good direction was clear.

All righty.

So with that, we will move on to uh public comment.

And just a show of hands.

And I need to try and be more consistent.

You know, most of you, I know you by your first name, I know where you live, but just so that people aren't say, you know, I'm not playing favorites, give your address, please.

Okay, show of hands.

Nobody for public comment.

Okay, Lauren.

I'm Lauren Stern.

I'm not gonna give my address for personal reasons, but I live on uh 55th Street.

Um I think this is awesome.

Um as a member of the Gulfport Coastline Coalition.

This is so exciting to see, especially when we consider all the investments that we have made and that we will continue to make in infrastructure.

I I love that the Army Corps of Engineers is like the plants, like that's so encouraging for me.

Um so that's wonderful, and I'm happy to hear that everyone is supportive of that.

Um I will comment later on the Lions Club lease, uh, because I was gonna ask about that tonight, but it's on the agenda.

Thank you.

Next, Amy.

Amy Costa, 28th Avenue South.

Um, just a reminder that March 1st, Sunday is our for the love of Gulfport event.

Um it's it's on, it's happening.

Hopefully the weather will hold and be wonderful.

Um, it is our Gulfport Pride community day.

There will be vendors, food, music, kids' activities, a really wonderful community family day for all.

It's from 11 to 4, and it's gonna be at Trolley Market Square in Tangerine Greenway.

So we hope everyone comes out.

Thank you.

Next, who's next?

Show of hands.

Uh Courtney.

Courtney Prokopis, 15th Avenue South.

I'm looking forward to Thursday's workshop, but I would like the following information, please, provided beforehand, or at the workshop itself.

Um, I presume there's going to be subject matter experts there.

Again, this is the workshop about ice-related issues, or as the city is billing it, the 287G mandate, which is a bold choice for a title.

Um so I'm hoping that there will be experts present, like representatives from the sheriff, Florida Highway Patrol, even fish and wildlife.

Those are all a law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction and oversight in our community in our 2.7 square miles.

Um and I really hope it's not just the same voices that we've already heard from.

Uh so this the citizens and the council, we need to know a few things ahead of that.

Um, how many sworn officers do we currently have on staff?

How does that compare to the budgeted or optimal number?

Are we fully resourced?

What are the top three types of calls our officers respond to?

Are they wellness checks, quality of life calls, violent crimes?

Um, and how long do those interactions typically take?

So with this data, we can assess whether our city, still in a rebuilding phase after those three deadly back-to-back hurricanes and a pop-up flood, has the capacity to participate in a 287G task force voluntary agreement.

Again, they're voluntary.

Ours was signed under conditions that exceeded the scope of the city manager's authority, as it is not as claimed a simple interlocal agreement because it requires additional training, staffing, and resources.

So scope creep is real.

This is something that other agencies with 287G agreements have already been asked to do to sign onto addendums.

And those duties that they're being asked to do include transporting individuals from holding facilities like Pinellas County jail to detention centers like Everglades Attention Center or Alligator Alcatraz.

Do we have the personnel to turn our officers into just glorified taxi drivers?

I don't think so.

Um and DHS can afford to hire them, but instead they're relying on intimidation and co-option of local law enforcement.

So more than a hundred agencies across our state have chosen not to participate.

And there are some, including here in Pinellas County, that have successfully voided their contracts.

So this is from uh community justice project director Alana Greer.

No federal or state requires that cities join, but the legal truth is not enough.

We need courage from elected officials.

That's you, the five of you, to hold the line for your communities.

I understand that the city manager, attorney, police chief, they don't answer to us, but they answer to you, and you answer to us.

So your so your role is not simply to defer, but it's to evaluate whether these agreements reflect the will and the best interest of your constituents.

Tonight you all stood up and you all put your hands on your heart, and you all said the Pledge of Allegiance, and you said to uphold liberty and justice for all.

That's not just a decorative phrase.

This time calls for judgment, not just blind compliance.

Agreement is optional, and you have the authority.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Wolfgang, I think you were next.

Thank you, Mayor.

Counsel.

Wolfgang Dininger, um, sixth place south, Beachway Park with Gulfport Grassroots.

Uh we do the monthly beyond the beach cleanups and also the clan bayou cleanups and a few other things in the city.

Uh we had our Valentine's Day cleanup earlier this month, February 14th.

We had 26 people show up and show their love for Gulfport.

We collected 101 pounds of trash and debris from the uh Gulfport uh waterfront area and also throughout uh uh the um a city.

Uh our next cleanup is going actually our next cleanup is going to be March 14th, and that is our clam bayou cleanup.

That's part of the uh great American uh cleanup, and that is done in uh conjunction with the um city of Gulfport and also with keep uh Pinellas Beautiful.

We usually have a huge turnout uh for that event by huge, I mean you know, 50 or 60 people.

We've gathered as much as 500 pounds plus of trash and debris out of the mangroves in clam bayou.

We have people uh in uh kayaks and uh canoes venture out, and and that's always a great um fun event.

Uh I I won't go into April right now, but that takes care of March.

Oh, and besides that, we will also still have a small force of uh grassroots volunteers at uh shelter number four at uh on our beach because so many people have become accustomed to just going down there on the second Saturday of every month, and I'm afraid of where all that clam bayou that they would just walk away.

So we will have a uh a volunteer contingent down there, either directing people to clam bayou, or they will also have uh pickers and pail supplies down at shelter four to uh do our normal uh beyond the beach cleanup.

Uh this last cleanup we did when the city first passed the ordinance for no smoking.

We all noticed uh uh uh great reduction in um a cigarette butts.

That was not the case this last cleanup, and in fact, the cleanup even before then that a cigarette butts have been uh piling up.

I think what's happened is that uh our uh local police, when it was first passed, I think they were more vigilant in enforcing it with uh uh warnings or just letting people verbally know hey, there's no smoking on our beach area, and I think that's gone down a little bit.

I think our police force needs to step up and take uh care of this.

It's not a small matter, it's a huge matter, it's our environment, it's our uh clan bayou.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else before we go to e-comments?

Seeing none.

Um City Clerk, please.

Uh yes, we did have three e-comments.

Uh first one is from Richard Freed.

I'm here to inform all in the gallery and those watching of the musical advert being used to recruit Department of Homeland Security and ICE employees.

Please play it.

It runs 2.45 minutes, and he did provide a YouTube leak, but unfortunately I cannot play that.

Uh Deborah Schubs was the second one.

21726, Gulfport Mayor Karen 1 slash 2026.

You stated at council meeting, you asked for your you asked your staff about Lincoln Cemetery Gulf Port Annex petition missing a date on the date line at the top of page of the two-page annex petition.

You stated you were informed a missing date was not an issue.

Multiple Gulfport public records do not document you asking the above to Gulfport staff today as Gulfport constituent.

I demand you ask Gulfport Attorney Salzman at today's meeting to state his legal opinion on the missing date.

Item number three is from Sean Simpson.

Hi, my name is Sean Simpson.

I am the owner of the business's Low Tide Kaba Bar, Time Code Productions, and Mildred Maloney Flowers in the Village Courtyard.

I would like to publicly state that I wholeheartedly oppose the new proposal for one-way streets in Gulfport between my three businesses, Stella's North End Tap House, the Corner Store, the Nail Salon, Sumitra, and Moon Underwater that is opening soon.

That is nine businesses that would share one side of the 29th Avenue South Parking.

Thank you.

All righty.

So we've made it through that, so we're gonna move uh through public comment.

We'll move on to the city manager report, please.

Just one item this evening, Mayor.

Um council members had respectably asked for the permitting update, and I provided you the data.

Uh also I've a list of um by number of the number of homeowner projects applications that have been made.

And also the what the reason is that it hadn't been issued.

We track everything to that effect.

Um you'll also see in the information boxes to the side that all homeowners have spoke to the plan reviewer initially at the first count at the counter when they come in to submit something, and then subsequently, if they'd like to sit down and have an appointment, they are given that opportunity.

Five people have availed themselves of that.

Um and then there was also the question in regards to commercial permits in review.

And Councilmember Shaw, if you remember, we met repeatedly with the Gulf Shores condominium, and they are in process.

They had some issues.

Um permit for um the 2832 Beach Boulevard restaurant that was discussed, and one 2901 Beach Boulevard is for storage, and those are for units that are being expanded, changed over at the top of the blue building.

That's the commercial aspect of it.

They're having storage on top of the bill, they're adding storage for their residents, the businesses and residents.

And the last uh commercial is uh the PYCC has requested to build on the on the golf course property a fitness center, and they are in permitting at this moment.

I missed how many did you say there were homeowner permits?

Applications.

59.

There were 59 applications.

There are 20 have been issued.

We have five that payments being awaited, waiting payment for five of them.

And you can, if you go to the list that's attached, is each of them that have been applied for.

Okay.

And then the status of them and the status of them.

Okay.

All righty.

Do you have anything else?

That's all I have.

All right.

Does anybody have any clarified clarifying questions of our city manager?

Okay, so when I asked for this, I did want to know how long it was taking to do the permits.

That was one of the main things, you know, how many and how long.

Because the whole point of doing the portal and having another contractor take over that was to have faster turnaround times.

And we don't have that information here.

So I'm hoping that we should have it.

Hopefully, in the next few days, it could be emailed to us.

And also, you know, we've had 59 homeowner permits, and you mentioned a couple of commercial um things.

Um, so the staff that we used to have handling all of this is now handling you know, maybe 65 permits over five or four and a half months.

So from what I've heard, the concierge service isn't really there.

And what piece of people have still been giving misinformation.

So I think we need to need to really look at that and make sure that people are getting correct information, you know, right away so that they don't waste their time, you know, do doing something wrong.

And also because they're not contractors, we have to be very careful to explain things in not contractor language so that they really understand what they have to do.

But I want to make sure that we're getting our money's worth from the people that were paying to do the contractor ones, because you know our staff is handling a fraction of what they used to do, so they should have plenty of time to help everybody else.

Okay, is that it?

Um do you have any questions of our city manager?

Not at the moment.

I'd like to read through it and then formulate my questions.

Um and in reference to what Vice Mayor Fannel said, I have had a couple of of issues where residents had concerns, but um I believe that they're resolved now.

I've not had any concerns with residents from um that I've talked to, so um city manager and I can discuss more of this in our I can't hear you.

Oh, um, I haven't heard any from many of my residents or um even my friends that live in other wards.

So if there's anything to discuss, I'll discuss with Jim and our regular one-on-one.

I I have nothing to add.

Um City Attorney Report.

No report, Mayor.

City Clerk Report.

Can we ask him questions?

Oh, yes.

Do we know it's happening with Ian?

Of course.

We have heard nothing from them, so I am planning on just drafting the civil complaint because I'm not hearing anything that tells me that they're probably not gonna do anything.

So he just gets away with it.

No, I'm gonna follow civil complaint.

Okay, all right, good.

That's what we talked about.

If we didn't get anything from there, that we would go after him uh under a civil complaint.

So I'm gonna at least prepare it so that we can and we'll try to get an answer from them.

But we have heard nothing.

Did anybody else have a question of the city attorney?

I did not, no.

Okay.

I just have one brief um thing to say for uh we will have some board openings.

Uh so if anybody is interested in serving on a board, uh the board application is out on the website, it's under the city clerk's page.

Uh if you can't find it out there, please feel free to email directly and I'll send you a copy for you to fill out.

Can you take just one second and tell them which boards we have that will have availability?

We will have the board of adjustments and the planning and zoning board will have some openings.

Okay, thank you.

All right, and that takes us to council comments and reports, and we'll go in speaking order, starting with council member early.

Okay, the Pink Flamingo Tour is on March 7th.

Very excited.

Um we have overspray, who if you've never been there, that's where we're signing people up who don't have their tickets already, and that's pretty an exciting place.

And of course, the blueberry patch, the community garden, um Albert's uh little homestead, and 14 homes.

It's gonna be great.

Um, Scott Lindy and I are doing a um an interview on Tampa Bay, such and such.

And for those of you who know me, there's not a camera I don't love.

So I am happy to do that, and we really look forward to it.

So thank you for everyone um who's gotten tickets.

And if you don't have them, please join.

Please join us on Saturday, the March 7th.

And I just wanted to say for to something that we'll mentioned.

Um also uh cleanup for Lincoln Cemetery is on April 25th.

There was a cleanup a couple weeks ago, and you were right, Wolf.

It was really very nice, and it probably didn't need your help, and it was a good crowd.

Um, but 425 is uh some time away, and if you'd put on your calendar, um I'm sure it will need a little work by then.

For the pink flamingo.

Seventh.

Got it.

Saturday, it's the Saturday.

Okay, and that's all I had.

All righty.

Okay.

Um I just found out that we were again awarded a tree city USA recognition for Arbor Day.

So that's um excellent.

Umpa Bay Regional Planning Council, and I just went to my last meeting, and so just so people know that I'll need to be replaced there, and they're willing.

So there's two things.

There's the council, and then there's the resiliency subcommittee, and they have a couple other subcommittees too.

Those are the only two that we've really been.

I think Michael was on the budget committee for a little while.

But anyway, um, but they're willing to appoint one of us to the resiliency committee if they um you know choose to go to.

I mean, they absolutely can go to the planning council meetings, which are usually from 10 to 12, and then the resiliency meeting is usually from 12 to 130 or so, and they provide lunch.

Once once a month, uh it's every other month, every time a Monday.

All right, okay.

And it's just up by by um mainlands, you know, off of 34th.

Yep, I go off there.

So it's not very far.

Okay.

And very nice group of people.

Um so I went to a Sierra Club.

I didn't go.

I listened to a Sierra Club webinar, and um, you know, they were talking about Dunedin has started a program for solar rebates.

Um they also do some resiliency rebates for people that are doing things like doors and windows and stuff for their houses, um, up to like 2500, which is similar to what we do for our lateral lines.

They they don't do lateral lines, so we're doing one thing, they're doing something else.

But that was interesting, and they've had um good um response to that.

Um, and you can also get money for native plants, shoreline stuff, solar batteries, insulation, water conservation, so a lot of things.

Um I mentioned our lateral program, and they were going to talk about that perhaps next time.

Um there's a Florida Department of Agriculture Community Forestry Hurricane in recovery grant, um, and that has a 25% match that's coming up very soon.

Um, those were the main things.

And then there's also the Pinellas County um got from the federal government $813 million for hurricane recovery.

So anybody who is impacted by the hurricanes, this is for homeowners, because like 70% of it was supposed to go all to homeowners.

Um even if you had insurance and had help from FEMA, you can still apply to get money, and it's up to $50,000 apiece.

So if you go on the Pinellas County website, you still have time to sign up for that.

Um Wood Ibis has had many, many, many, many fish deaths.

So apparently it was because of the cold water, but they've been out there even over the holiday pulling fish out of the water because it was getting potentially very smelly.

Um it I didn't walk around the pond today because I rode my bike, but it looked like it was a little better today.

So hopefully that's gonna stop happening.

Um I still haven't noticed I don't think signs for no smoking in in the park.

And did and did we actually pass something or we were waiting for the state about the electric bikes in parks?

Where we we tabled it.

It would table it until the state decides.

Okay, I thought so.

Um and then the ice workshop, I sort of want to reiterate some of what um Courtney said is that it would be really good to have maybe somebody from some other cities that have been working with this or um you know to to know a little bit more about I think people are concerned about how it's gonna be implemented, and I get that we would rather have our department handling it, but they may not be the only ones that end up on the ground here, and they're under instruction from Homeland Security, and um so I think there's just a lot of concerns about how things could go, and so if we have anybody that's actually had to deploy to do anything, you know, how that's gone, what it's been like, because people are really afraid and they're worried, and um so I think we need to have some good information for people because I think it'll be a popular uh program.

So um and that's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember Shaw.

Thank you.

So, in an effort to keep my report to approximately five minutes, I'm going to only focus on the legislature.

As many of you know, I just returned from Tallahassee at the end of last week.

I was there representing both Gulfport and the Sun Coast League of Cities, along with Jennifer Webb, who helps organize and strengthen the league's advocacy on behalf of Suncoast municipalities like ours.

I'm grateful to Jennifer and to the league for sponsoring the trip and for the important work they do ensuring we have a coordinated and effective voice in Tallahassee, which is increasingly more important.

The legislature is now in its fifth week of committee meetings, and week six may likely be the final week of the House subcommittees.

At this stage, the window for hearing bills narrows quickly, which means many bills will not be heard.

Both the House and Senate release their proposed budgets this week.

Each comes in below the governor's recommended spending plan.

Lawmakers will spend much of this week debating competing proposals.

Negotiations appear challenging as the Senate has signaled it is not willing to trade policy positions for funding items.

Meanwhile, the House is moving a number of bills towards the Senate, knowing these are not the bills the Senate wishes to discuss, in other words, politics.

As always, the legislative process itself is complex.

Bills continue moving through multiple committees, revisions, and negotiations, very often rapidly changing agendas, and I got to see some of that firsthand.

Jennifer and I met with senators, aides, and staff.

I have five blisters on my feet to prove it.

And staff to discuss legislations affecting municipalities.

Because schedule shifted frequently or delayed, particularly while the House budget was delayed.

We were only able to attend two Senate committee committee hearings, both with extremely long agendas.

Some of the items we focused on, local business tax, when the state's department state's Department of Business and Professional Regulation stopped collecting these taxes.

Cities were assigned the responsibility.

The tax helps support local oversight and safety practices.

Without it, we lose an important public safety tool.

Sovereign immunity.

The proposal increases the liability cap to 300 and 450,000, adjust it for inflation after five years, ties it to the CPI, and prohibits settlements above the CAP.

I testified on this bill in the Senate Appropriations Committee hearing.

If this fails, it could contribute to far more frivolous lawsuits, insurance premium increases, and other concerning matters.

The post-disaster land use regulations that we've heard quite a little bit about was the Senate Bill 840.

This bill refines last year's legislation affecting communities after hurricanes, and it restores some very key points, shortens the sunset date, shortens the land use freeze tied to recent storms and other really helpful factors.

Try not to go through all of the detail because there's usually quite a fit quite a bit.

The property tax proposals, HBSB 213, 203, and 209 are the largest remaining questions regarding property taxes.

As voters consider these proposals, it's important to be aware that property taxes fund essential local services, including police and fire protection, code enforcement parks, athletic fields and courts, senior programs, the recreation center, cultural facilities, trails, marinas, building services, stormwater systems, wastewater infrastructure, and more.

We face the possibility of losing as much as a third of our revenue.

The property tax proposals may ultimately be moved into a special session.

I'm not going to go further on that because I believe that's going to be touched on by Mayor Love.

Why I'm going into some of this detail is that I've only referenced a few of the bills out of thousands.

Many of the bills moving through Tallahassee directly affect how cities operate, including ours.

Some proposals limit home rule, our local decision making, including zoning, land planning, spending authority, development review processes, impact fees, our services, and more.

Some would require cities to meet added mandates without funding support from the state, which is then an additional financial burden upon us.

Staying aware and engaged during the legislative sessions, important.

These updates are not abstract policy debates.

They shape what services our city can provide and how decisions are made locally.

If you have any questions about any legislation, please feel free to contact me and I will gladly share what I've learned or do the best I can.

I was also able to have a discussion with one of our lobbyists.

They're working on three appropriations for us and shared that legislators are primarily focused on recovering at this time, and that's certainly not unimaginable.

One final note and reminder on a totally different topic is to please help reduce street flooding and help maintain water quality by adopting a drain before the rain starts.

You can sign up on Gulfport Connects on our city website, and we even have sheets at the back with QR codes to make it easy for you.

And this is something that Councilmember Nancy and I have been working on together.

So please help support this program and encourage your neighbors to as well.

Thank you so much.

Can I ask you a question from being in Tallahassee?

I'll try.

Um there's a there's a bill going through that would require the cities over 10,000, which is us to have six contractors that we would use that that a developer could use instead of going to our planning department.

And we would have to let them use it, and their decisions would be binding, and we would only be able to inspect and things like that.

And and theoretically, they might have to acknowledge you know our design guidelines and stuff like that and setbacks and stuff, but I don't know for sure.

Um, you know, not having read in detail the whole bill.

Did they talk about that one at all?

Um yes, we did.

Yes, we did.

And that that is obviously a concern to municipalities, including us, because again, taking away local local choices and and putting burdens upon us.

Now, I don't mind having six vendors to be able to go to.

However, I'd like them to be vendors of our choice.

Well, we would get to choose, but still we'd have to use them rather than our staff.

So and and that and that is odd in itself because we do have trust to rely on our staff for many of these things.

So to then put that out to a private company is is not comfortable to most of us, anyways.

Councilmember Jackson.

Thanks.

I have no comments, council comments or reports today.

All right.

Well, that takes me to that takes me to me.

So you know, one of the reasons that we do these it's the only opportunity we really have to share with each other what the uh meetings that we've attended and uh opportunity to share information.

So I have been to um two Ford Pinellas meetings here um last week.

Most of the conversation is really uh all about the merger of the three planning councils.

So if you know they're talking about combining Hillsboro, Ford Pinellas, and PASCO all together, all right.

And um there's a lot of concerns about uh among um folks like myself representing small cities that we're gonna get lost in the uh in the wake, all right.

Um and the this has not been voted on at this time.

So there's no decision necessarily that they're that we're all gonna combine into one.

But if I were to tell you the real uh read the writing on the wall, it's gonna happen.

And the census that I'm getting uh from these people, or the sense that I'm getting is that they've pretty much been told by the state that if we don't do it, the state's going to do it for us, and that we won't like the way they do it.

So it looks like in the near future there is going to be one very large planning council for the metropolitan Tampa Bay area.

So I wanted to do that, tell you that.

One of the things that they did in this special session last Friday was they wanted to address the um apparently state limits you to 25 seats on any planning council, okay?

A total of 25, and it's a given that the airport and the Tampa port get one each.

So then they have to take and and divide up the other 23 among three um counties.

Three counties, exactly.

And then the talk comes into well, how are we going to do small cities?

Because apparently I don't know Pascoe County, but I think PASCO doesn't have a lot of small cities, whereas Pinellas has a whole lot of um small cities.

So to just say, well, every county gets one seat for a small city didn't sit well with a lot of people.

So that is one thing that they voted on that if this goes forward, what they're going to do is allow each seat at the each county to decide how they're going to um handle their small cities within their own county.

Okay.

So that was uh a vote that did happen.

So I wanted you to be aware of that.

The second thing I wanted you to be aware of at Ford Pinellas, there's really a lot of focus on um bicycle safety.

They're very much aware of the accidents.

They're really watching our 49th Street, you know, and of course, we're in line to have some major uh repairs and improvements made there.

Um, one of the things that they're really focusing on right now is the continuity of the trail.

When you go from one city to the next city to the next city, signage can be different.

The way crossing state um streets is handled can be differently.

Um even rules can be handled differently from city to city.

So they are really have a joint task force now that's working on trying to make that the same.

If you're riding the trail, the everything's gonna be the same, the whole length of the trail.

So I wanted you to tell you that.

Uh, the second thing, um Vice Mayor mentioned um people first recovery.

I just want to, in case anybody doesn't know that the caseworkers were here today at the library.

I believe it was from 9 to 2 today.

They will be here Thursday and Friday as well.

And uh those case workers will help you apply.

It's one-on-one care.

I showed up today, and there were no lines or anything.

There, well, there was one person in line, so there were three caseworkers and four people needing assistance.

And I want to clarify a rumor that got out there really early on that is not true.

When the what in my mind, I've always thought when I say homeowner, that doesn't make any difference whether you live in a single family house, a townhouse, or a condo.

And I verified that early on when I started hearing that condos were excluded.

That is not true.

I verified it twice more today.

So anyone who's listening who's in a condo who heard that rumor that they couldn't apply for one of these many programs, remember they started with 813 million dollars.

We know only 168 properties in Gulfport applied, and we had over 600 experienced storm damage.

So spread the word, guys, the money's there.

They want to spend this money in our community.

We're the first city to get them to actually come here and help people with the process.

So I'm real happy about that.

I always listen to public comments, so I really there was something said last week that I just want to said I've not quit thinking about, and that had to do with our entrance sign on uh Tangerine and 49th.

Uh they talked about it, and I I have to agree.

Um not very welcoming, and I went over and I really looked at it.

It's huge, it's massive, it's plain Jane.

There's nothing about Gulfport that's plain Jane.

Um when I've talked to a few people, a few people would like to say to me, yeah, but it's historical.

Well, it's not necessarily good historical.

So I think it's really unattractive, and I am going to come back with something about uh improving that sign greatly and making it feel like Gulfport and welcome to everybody.

Um in terms of the traffic flow, parking speed limits presentation I did, keep the good ideas coming.

Um I've had a couple that have been repeated a couple of times now, and I think they're all good, and of course, I'll bring them forward as well.

Uh Sean Simpson left a uh e-comment tonight.

Um I did get, I just want him to know I did get your email.

Um I definitely will reach out to you tomorrow at some point through email and let you know.

Um I think you've made an incorrect assumption, and I think I can fix it, and everyone can breathe easier and sleep better.

Um in terms of I'm not sure what councilmember Shaw is necessarily referring to, but today when I did my take two on Tuesday, I did reference the three um uh tax bills in the House that seem to be have the most forward motion, and I did address that today on take do on Tuesday.

So if you okay, if you do watch that, the take two on Tuesdays, you can always find them on the Facebook page, or you can find them on Instagram and YouTube, uh, and I address that there.

So that's it for me.

Thank you.

Moving on to consent.

Excuse me.

Item 6A, consider approval of meeting minutes from meetings held February 3rd, 2026 and February 5th, 2026.

Motion to approve the second.

All those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Passes unanimously.

Moving on to ordinances.

Item 7a, ordinance number 2026-01, second reading and public hearing and ordinance of the city of Gulfport, Florida, amending the City of Gulfport Code of Ordinances, amending Chapter 22 zoning, Article 6, supplementary regulations for all districts by creating section 22-6.14, certified recovery residences, providing for definitions, providing for procedures for the review and approval of certified recovery residences, providing for a request for reasonable accommodations, providing for revocation of reasonable accommodations, providing for codification, severability, and for an effective date.

Motion to approve.

Second.

City manager.

Yes, Mayor.

Yes, Mayor, as did previously discussed, the proposed uh change to the code and the amendment will ensure that the city procedures comply with the state law that it was adopted last year, and such that basically that we have a process in place for basically for someone who's a registered certified home such as this would meet minimum requirements, but would give them a process to appeal our decisions.

Okay.

Do we have any questions of our city manager?

No, I read it through early.

Plus, I had heard about it when um I went to Liga Cities, so I'm I'm good.

Thank you.

No.

No.

No.

None here.

Public comment on this matter.

I see none.

Did we have any comment on this?

Not on this item.

All righty.

All right.

Councilmember Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Jackson?

Yes.

Mayor Love?

Yes.

Carries to passage.

Moving on to 7B, ordinance number 2026-02.

Second reading and public hearing and ordinance of the City of Gulfport, Florida, amending chapter 12, Health and Sanitation, Article 1, nuisances, residential lighting.

Providing for the repeal of ordinances or parts of ordinances and conflicts here with to the extent of such conflict, providing for severability and providing for an effective date.

Motion to approve.

Second.

City manager.

Yes, Mayor.

Um you all had quite the discussion at the your last meeting.

And what this basically does is create establishes that lighting can be a nuisance.

And it I know the city attorney had quite a bit of input on this.

It gives us the ability to contact the owner and say their lighting is creating a nuisance.

It's very broad and general.

It's the first step, I believe, the council expressed to move to the next level of what would be a new what would be the triggering factors for lack of a better example.

Thank you.

So what would be the triggering factors?

That's what you would do.

That's that's what you would decide brightness or things like that.

Right.

So it seems like uh overreach that's to me.

That's one or the net or the any of that, right?

So what might bother me might not bother Jim or Chief Ferrand.

Um we have a street light, it's very bright.

My bedroom is not feng shui because of that, because it's super bright, okay.

But it's there for safety, and I never even thought of telling a person about it or anything.

I just adjusted.

So I have no questions.

I just wanted to know what you thought.

Would be a trigger.

Yeah.

I would use excess the if the time well, just because we receive a complaint does not mean it's a violation.

Okay.

You would put in place measurements to lumens and such like that.

You would limit your lumens.

You may lumin the there was discussion, council had discussion in regards to if you have time security lighting, that it had to be on the first floor, that it wasn't elevated, things to that effect that would be the in the next level of this ordinance.

That could be a nuisance to someone, yes, but maybe not everyone.

Exactly.

And and there's and those people wouldn't complain.

That's true.

That's right.

That's right.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's all I had.

Okay.

So how are we going to proceed with the second stage of it?

We're going to have to draft a very comprehensive ordinance, talking about zoning, um, illumination, all sorts of things because you're talking about different zoning areas.

What I don't know what zoning has to do with it really.

Because residential is treated differently than multi-family for where people have their uh illumination versus commercial.

Most of our multifamily, I mean, except for town shores, really most of our multi-family is in the middle of residential areas.

But you just said you just said one, that's why it has to be drafted in the comprehensive.

And I presume like we wouldn't include PYCC because they would have their own homeowner stuff.

We wouldn't, we would deal with our zoning areas, residential, commercial.

I mean, some of them might be the same, right?

But you have to deal with every area.

So how soon would we maybe see that?

Because presumably some other cities might have something already.

I've definitely looked at other cities already.

That's why I know how comprehensive it is.

I'm gonna have to go through and edit it then.

And so that means we would have to initially go to the planning and zoning board.

Because it's a zoning change.

Okay.

So again, that would be if I I can't speak from city attorney.

So how how long do you think it would take you to probably 60 days at the most?

Okay.

Um again, as as so many things that we discuss, this is based upon resident input and trying to respond to those types of things.

And then the fact that we do have a lot of construction going on too that that could you know contribute further to it.

We're we're all in favor of you know, security lighting, um, that type of thing.

You know, I'm keenly aware of that, always have been.

Um, you know, they're also a such a thing as a quality of life issue for for neighbors if it's glaring in their home.

I realize blackout shades can help that.

Um, you know, I'll use a face mask, that's a lot less expensive.

I just saying, but um, there's there's also a vehicular safety matter too, because some of them are so bright and glaring that they affect visibility when one is driving at night.

And I've heard that from a number of people as well.

And I saw an example of it myself, so it helped me understand what they were saying.

So I'm I I'm not sure that I have any questions, and uh I think like you as attorney Salzman said, the next step is is to then determine what the definitions of those things are, such as the illumination and such.

So thank you.

Um I personally um want to avoid the HOA creep that this kind of brings in.

Um I mean, personally, I'm all for no light pollution anywhere.

I want I want my insects to pollinate my night blooming cactus all the time, but it doesn't happen because they got a street light right there.

Um so I'm a little bit I just don't want this to turn into an HOA ordinance.

Okay.

So Councilman Early, um one of the things that happened to me a few months ago was that I had a long-term residence here in a single family home, and a couple years ago, a two-story was built next to her, and the motion sensor lights were put up at the very top of the second, and the motion sensor lights, and there's pets that live there.

So pets are let in and out all night long.

Okay, and the according to her, okay, that these lights were left on the motion sensor was set like for 30 minutes, okay.

This particular person is a night person, so they're in their heyday, they're sleeping during the day, and in the evening and the nighttime, they're out there watching the moon and the stars, okay?

Different lifestyle than me, but that's their life.

And they were distressed to the maximum.

And when I asked what can we do about this, one of the things I found out is it's really not covered anywhere.

Okay, and that's why, in my opinion, this is the first step by declaring it into the nuisance ordinance so that future conversations could take place.

So that was one.

The second thing that happened, and this was not in an area that you know where we're building a lot of two-story homes right now.

The second thing that happened to me is that I had um several people uh approach me.

Um, primarily I want to say in the marina area, where you're still gonna end up with a good number of single family homes, but um, some of the folks have decided, of course, to either raise their homes up, take their homes up, or build two stories.

And they had the same thing, the uh the saying, you know, how are things gonna be changed so that we won't have the neighbors spotlight in our backyard?

And so a height.

Yes.

So even if you had a two-story house, you really don't need to have motion sensors and spotlights on the second story shining down.

You could just keep them on the first story, okay?

You'll still see the same thing you've been seeing all along, but it won't affect your neighbor.

So that would be an example of what would be okay, because as we talk about ADUs, there could be to your example, there could be an issue there.

Okay.

It could be, yes.

And that's why I wanted to respond that way because I had been approached by several people.

Um one was imagining more into the future, and one was totally stressed out now.

And and I was finding out where there's really nothing, we don't have anything right now, and that's why it was suggested a two-step process first.

We have to include it into the nuisance.

Um I'm agree with that.

Okay.

Great with that.

No one has mentioned anything like that to me.

I can understand what you're saying about the height and how that would work.

Definitely.

That's what happened.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

All righty.

Any public comment?

Yes, Jennifer.

Jennifer Donch, Premier Drive South.

So I understand the need for having it be included in the nuisance and having it determined to be a nuisance before you can actually specify it.

But containing still the language that refers to uplighting, um beacon lighting, the search lights, the things that point at the right-of-way like uplighting.

If you have an American flag in your yard, you have to have a light shining on it at night.

So I realize that it allows for otherwise approved, but in this specific language and this part of it, it's still included in that, and I think that that should not be included.

So I realize that later on it'll be specified, but in here that's not changed.

So I don't think it's appropriate to have something that says this is a nuisance, and these are examples of it, but really there's gonna be other examples of it later, but these are still in there as examples of things that would be a nuisance, and they're really not um necessarily examples of a nuisance.

So I just wanted to add that part of it.

Thanks.

Okay, thank you.

Any other public comment on this matter?

Seeing none, I'll close public comment.

Do we have any e-comments?

No e-comments on this one.

All righty.

Uh councilmember Early.

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Jackson?

Yes.

Mayor Love?

Yes.

Carries to passage.

Moving on to resolutions.

Item 8A, resolution number 2026-08, a resolution amending fees for the Department of Leisure Services in accordance with chapter 25 of the code and code of ordinances providing for the adoption of a fee schedule for the 2026 children's summer recreation program.

Motion to approve.

Motion to approve.

Second.

Okay, thank you.

I thought you were waiting for us.

Yeah, I was.

I mean that would be Mayor.

Mayor, if I could take a step uh before you take action on this to recognize the work of Mayorville Gutierrez to maintaining the affordability at this program, as some of you spoke of with the tax bills, things to that effect.

Um with the legislation that's out there.

One thing that we've identified, and this to me, this is one of the most important things that the council adopts annually because it's affordable, and those who need the recreation program can continue to participate.

As you see in our memo, we do have many ways to offset the cost.

Um I can tell you comparatively to other cities in the area, we're very affordable, and I think council it's a blessing to that.

This council is in continually endorsed that um value system and the cost associated with offering children's recreation.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions in speaking order?

No questions.

Okay.

Yeah, I think it was great to the keep the cost.

I'm I just occurred to me.

Have we ever looked at because I'm just I just noticed today at the market how many babies there were.

Have we ever looked at doing any kind of child care for younger children?

We do have VPK.

No, but I mean young young.

Not younger than three years old.

Three, we start at three.

Oh, okay.

That's pretty but nothing nothing below that though.

No.

Okay, just curious.

So um I read that that there's uh the non-resident rate is actually uh 25% more.

But what is the percentage of increase to the current rates?

Well, basically it's the same as no increase to the current rate.

It's based on it's based on the number of weeks program.

If you have an eight-week summer program due to the it's tied to the school calendar.

We could school it gets out just a tad later this year, a few days, and you have 10 weeks this summer.

Past summers, you've had eight weeks.

So when the Pinellas County school system chooses to go back.

Okay.

Well, I did see that, and that that was that was very logical.

Um, I was just wondering if there was an actual increase or not.

And but that's that's good.

That's that's great because I do appreciate that we have this program for young families.

Councilmember Jackson.

Yeah, I have um no comments.

I totally support this.

Thank you.

I I was just absolutely shocked by how affordable it is to tell you the truth.

I was expecting because I never you know really looked at the those numbers before, and when I I looked at it, I was like, whoa.

Uh because I read just recently that um for an independent babysitter nowadays, the average cost is $25 an hour.

Wow.

New career.

Yeah, I know.

I mean, that'd be a huge raise for me, you know.

Um so I was really surprised pleasantly surprised to see this, and I uh also appreciate that we're able to do this, and yes, this is one of the things that helps our to our city taxes help with, absolutely.

So thank you.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm sorry, public comment.

Seeing none.

Oh, Lauren Stern.

Um, hello.

Uh we'll just like to reiterate that we are the young parents council of golfport would love to have child care in that exact facility, very affordable for these meetings.

There are not there are lots of babies, there are lots of young kids in golfport, and most people are not able to come to these meetings to uh because it's not a convenient time, child care.

So I love that we have this.

Just reiterating that there's lots of parents that I talked to ongoingly that would love to see that for city workshops, candidate forums, and our city council meetings, and we have a great facility that already sees many kids in and out of it taken great care of by our city staff.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Any e-comments on this matter?

No e-comments on this.

Alrighty.

Call the vote.

Councilmember Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Jackson?

Yes.

Mayor Love?

Yes.

Carries to passage.

Item 8B, resolution number 2026 desk 09, a resolution authorizing the city manager to enter into a contract with Colt Services LLC for the installation of potable water insert valves associated with the 58th Street Roadway Improvement Project.

Motion to approve.

Second.

City.

Mayor, thank you.

Mayor, thank you.

This is pretty self-explanatory as you have water lines that are adjacent and enter into the 58th Street Road Roadway project, and this is to replace the actual valves.

Any questions of our city manager on this?

No.

No.

No.

So my only question is why wasn't it part of the whole original project?

Why is it getting added on?

Because we identified as we needed the valves.

There are some valves that do not need to be replaced.

So as we identify from a different supplier to keep the project moving, we looked at that as we went through the project to add an amendment.

Okay.

Thank you.

Public comment.

Do we have any e-comment?

Not on this item, Mayor.

Alrighty.

Call the vote.

Councilmember Early?

Yes.

Vice Mayor Thanos?

Yes.

Councilmember Shaw?

Yes.

Councilmember Jackson?

Yes.

Mayor Love?

Yes.

Carries to passage.

Moving on to 8C item, or excuse me, resolution number 2026-10.

A resolution authorizing the city manager to approve the payout of the Gulfport Lions Club Incorporated lease as set forth in paragraph five of the lease agreement upon termination or non-renewal.

Motion to approve.

Second.

All righty.

City manager.

Mayor, council had uh determined to table this action with the desire to seek an additional appraise appraisal tied to an MAI appraiser and also to fair market value.

Um what this does is the new appraisal establishes the fair market value.

If I could direct you to in your appraisal to page 16, um market value conclusion is outlined specifically.

And that amount to total appraisal value for market value is 455,000, of which you would be responsible for 50 percent of that.

Okay, thank you.

Do we have any questions or comments over to our city manager on this?

No, I don't have any questions or comments.

Okay.

Sorry, but I've got a lot.

So first of all, I sent everybody a copy of what my appraiser, who is an MAI appraiser said.

And so I'll read this out for everybody.

Um he acknowledged that the appraiser was a colleague of his and believed the work product was competent for a restricted appraisal.

However, he respectively respectfully disagree with the conclusions regarding the remaining economic life of the improvements.

In my opinion, the building has reached the end of its economic life.

This conclusion is readily supportable in waterfront markets, where the highest and best use for similar older improvements is frequently demolition, which we're planning on, and redevelopment.

A review of the waterfront sales over the past three to five years shows multiple instances where older structures were either demolished or contributed no measurable value value, indicating zero remaining economic life.

Additionally, this type of assignment is not appropriately supported by direct comparison to improve sales ranging from approximately 455,000 to 1.5 million without isolating land value.

In those cases, the underlying land value alone often accounts for most, if not all, of the sale price.

If the estimated land value were extracted from the comparable sales used in the analysis, the residual count contributory value of the improvements would likely be negligible, which further supports my conclusion.

While I acknowledge that the appraisal was appropriately developed given its scope, my professional opinion difference with respect to the economic life and contributory value of the existing improvements.

Also they uh made some assumptions, and one was that there was one foot of water, and in fact, something that the city manager sent me said that there was 28 inches of water.

So that was not correct.

And that it was quickly dried out, and in their permit that they didn't end up getting, but that they submitted, they put that there were 70 hours that they spent.

But I don't believe that you can dry out a building that has drywall without cutting the drywall to dry the wood underneath, and no drywall was cut out.

And it I asked for anything that showed that they had actually paid for um remediation, and I I didn't get anything.

And um and also a couple of years, I think even before the storms, they were talking about not renewing their lease because they couldn't afford to put a new roof on, which leads me to believe that the roof was not in good condition.

And okay, let's see, and then that was okay.

Um and then they actually they talked about market value, but they actually used primarily actual cash value, and they didn't take the land price out.

And they also talked about the depreciation, and they said it had a 45-year life expectancy.

This was built in 1950, but yet they made the assumption it was built in 71 in this document.

So they're 21 years off how old this building is.

And I pulled the county records, and the only improvements they've done, because if you know, usually when you house you have a house that's 75 years old, like mine is, you know, there's been multiple renovations and stuff.

But they did 20,000 on the roof in 2022, so that would have been a repair, because it's a big roof and it would be very expensive, as anybody who lives in town shores probably knows.

And in 18 they did the roof for 33,000.

They had a remodel in 17 for 8,000.

So that couldn't have been a major renovation.

Shed fence, those don't count for the building.

And again, the roof they did 2,000 in 2006.

They put a canopy which doesn't count, patio deck doesn't count, and then another renovation in 1999 for 1500.

So again, there's been no major renovation of this building that would extend the life of the building, in my opinion.

And on their depreciation, they've got they come down to 47 years.

And if you get down to where it actually should be, we don't owe them anything.

There's no appreciable value left to this building.

And we're going to demolish it.

So to pay have a value of 500,000 or 455,000 for a building that you're going to demolish, and they don't want any more.

If it was so valuable, they would still be meeting there.

Okay.

Councilmember Shaw.

Well, I do appreciate that we went back and did the uh appraisal according to what the lease said, but um that that certainly is a lot of information that you know I'd like to hear more about and what we do with that type of information.

Okay.

You can't use that information.

Okay.

You have to go and that that's not a client of the city.

You have to hire somebody on behalf of the city.

That would be just like anybody presenting that information.

You're gonna have to go and get another appraisal if that's what you want from somebody else.

That's not a legal.

That's not a legally enforceable.

No, I I understand that.

I understand that, but it is it is information.

It's not information you can use unless you want to get sued.

No, I I'm not saying that we use it, but it's like now it it causes some question.

I I don't disagree with you, but you need to go ahead and get somebody else look at it.

If that's what you want.

Because right now you have a document that from somebody that you hired.

You need to have somebody else you hire give you a different opinion.

Somebody just soliciting someone, a friend or whoever does not is not going to be acceptable based on the agreement that you have.

I I genuinely understand that.

Oh, I I know you do.

I'm just I wasn't addressing it only to you, Councilmember.

It was just in general.

This is what you're gonna have to do.

If we consider it, what about Marlene speaking?

Um I'm still trying to take in all that information.

I I I understood some of it, but I have to admit that Vice Mayor Thanos brought out a lot more details than I had um understood, or or let me say um pondered.

So um now it's I'm I'm there.

Okay.

Councilmember Jackson.

Um as I understand, City Manager, we we have to abide by this contract we have with them.

You have a contract with them, yes.

That plays out clearly in the how you get the value, and that's what we went and did was an MAI appraiser.

My understanding then is that if we were to alternatively we could get a different appraisal, but regardless, when we get that appraisal, we have to abide by that contract and what that appraisal says, otherwise we're setting precedents for not following through with our contracts.

Okay, that's all which by the way was my point in making sure we did go back and use an M MIA appraiser and based on a market value according to the lease.

Right.

So here's my thoughts on this all.

Um first of all, there was in the last there's been there's been three appraisals done in the last six months, okay.

The first appraisal that was done was came in at $528,000, okay.

And then the um Lions Club made it clear that they were not going to renew the lease, and so we had to do something with it.

That appraisal was agreeable to the Lions Club.

It was agreeable to the city, but um Vice Mayor Thanos requested that there be a second appraisal.

Seemed fair.

That appraisal came in at 538,000.

So it went up 10,000 dollars, okay.

So then we had it on the agenda to do to do the payout.

And uh the night that we were supposed to do that, Vice Mayor Thanos made an extremely good point in my opinion, in that she questioned that it wasn't a MAI appraisal.

And if you remember, I asked her what well, what's the difference?

I mean, my background is real estate, but not in commercial uh spaces.

And so I felt very strongly that we needed to get a third appraisal.

Um, so that we were um going per the terms of the lease exact.

Nobody could ever come back to us and say you did not follow the terms of the lease.

All right.

So we had the third appraisal done and it came in at 455,000.

Now, where I have a real problem is that within moments of us hearing well, I don't want to exaggerate, within 45 minutes of us, the city council hearing this and seeing this appraisal and hearing this number 455,000.

We were already forwarded an opinion of another appraiser who is a friend of um Vice Mayor Thanis's.

Well, you just said that a minute ago, April.

Sorry.

Um, stating that though they thought that the way all the information had been formed was correct and accurate, they didn't agree with the conclusion.

I have to say uh 33 years as a real estate broker.

I found that so extremely unprofessional at many levels.

Many levels.

Number one, that we having three appraisals now come in and they're it came down in price, that we would put somebody in that position to ask them to give their opinion on an appraisal that we just paid something like three or four thousand dollars for that's one thing.

Uh the second thing is to think that these two people work at the same firm.

I can only imagine the tension that was created within the firm when we have one appraiser trying to override another appraiser's opinion and how they analyzed it.

So I think that to have three appraisals within six months would be ludicrous not to accept it.

I heard that everything that Vice Mayor just said.

I also heard her say many times my opinion, my opinion, my opinion.

She's not an MAI appraiser, neither am I, neither is the city a manager, and neither is the city attorney.

At this point, whether we like it or not, we have to perform for the terms of our contract.

Can you just imagine?

We've been around for a hundred and I'm sorry, 116 years, something like that.

Can you imagine the city cannot afford to have a reputation among our peers, our vendors, our creditors?

We can't have a reputation that we only perform per the terms of the contract when we like it years later.

We have to honor the contracts as they stand.

And so for me, this is not a difficult decision.

I'm very, very grateful that Vice Mayor Thanos pointed out that it needed to be an MAI appraiser.

I'm glad that we ordered uh MI appraiser.

We certainly did not say, could we find one that'll give us the highest price possible because we don't want to save money?

Okay, and in fact, we are saving money with this.

Do we are we do we want to spend this money?

No.

But it's a contract.

So to me, there's no question about what the city needs to do at this point, and that is to perform per the terms of the contract.

There we were to pay them within 90 days, that's where we're at.

We've had multiple appraisals, and one uh opinion by a council member does not override professional appraisers.

Can I answer that, please?

Yeah, of course.

So they don't work for the same company, and he's not a friend of mine.

He's just an appraiser that I found through a real estate agent.

So it isn't a friend of mine.

Um what about the fact that they used the wrong age of the building?

They do they arbitrarily selected 45 years and said that there was improvements, but there were no improvements that would have extended it be fine beyond 45 years, and it's now 75 years old.

So I think there's mistakes in the appraisal.

Now we could go back to them and say, look, you know, your appraisal make some wrong, you have some wrong assumptions.

Somebody gave you the wrong information and see if they correct it.

But the first two appraisals we did, the city manager got the wrong kind of appraisals from the wrong kind of people.

So that shouldn't count at all.

They were cash val actual cash value and they weren't MIA appraisals.

So those don't even count.

We shouldn't have even done those.

Those were wasted money.

And the first one we did was before the storms, before it was flooded.

And he wanted to use that appraisal after the building had flooded.

And so I was the one that insisted that they get another appraisal, but he again did not follow the terms of the contract.

I totally want to follow the terms of the contract, but I don't want to give away 250,000 for a building we're going to demolish when there's incorrect information in this appraisal.

Now, if they come back, and he he I asked him to give this to us right away so we'd have time to deal with this.

It was dated the 28th of January, and we didn't get it till the 10th.

So he kept it almost two weeks before we could see it.

If we'd have gotten it and talked about it at the last meeting, we would have had more time before the 90 days elapsed to have it corrected.

But he didn't do that.

And you know, you took the 350,000 that I had put away for solar and worked hard to get for solar and put it for stormwater, which was a valid thing to do, even though at least solar pays you back, you know, you get your money back, and we put it into stormwaters because that's where our priority is.

Now you're giving away 250,000 for a building we're going to demolish, and we could you be using that for stormwater money.

I at least think they should correct this appraisal so they have the right age of the building, they have the right flood amount, they make sure that it was properly dried out, and they look at what actually the permits that they had for improvements over the years to give some reason why they're giving this a 17-year more life when there's been no significant renovations or improvement.

It it, you know, if we they go by their 45 year life, that building is fully depreciated.

And that's where I think the problems are.

So I think the appraisal should be redone, not totally redone.

I think he should take his incorrect assumptions and fix them and come back.

He made mistakes.

How do we know which one was right and which one was wrong?

Well, I mean, the it it's not about which is right or wrong.

He says it was built in 1971.

The property appraiser says 1950.

I have and we know what year it was.

1950 is what the property appraiser has.

And the property appraiser has the permits back to 1999 or 97, actually.

So we know that there's not been any improvements really done in in almost 30 years.

I don't I don't have any more questions.

So and I mean, and again, he had two feet of water, not one foot, and and I don't think they dried it out.

I mean, I was in that building, there was no drywall cut out.

So I don't think they dried it out properly.

So there was just a lot of things that he was given as assumptions that were wrong.

And I don't know where he got the age of the building 1971, if the property appraiser has 1950.

Doesn't it come down, some of the appraisal come down to the cost of materials that the building has?

That's the actual cash value, which we're not supposed to be doing.

We're supposed to be doing a fair market value.

What it would sell for if you were if it was say for sale today, less the value of the property.

That's what a you know a market value appraisal is you wanna Marlene, did you want to say something now?

No.

Thank you.

I I think what I I'd like to hear from actually, yes.

I I'd like to hear what the state uh what the um what attorney Salzman says uh suggests that uh as far as these potential disparities and how that would impact our decision today.

Well, I I think personally I think that if there are legitimate basis that they were relying on that are incorrect, we need to have those corrected, and we need to have a new opinion on that.

I just wouldn't my point was we can't rely on somebody else's.

But if there is information that's incorrect, we need to have them look at that and see if that changes their opinion.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

I think that's a a proper legal way to pursue something.

I would tell you that.

What if it comes back higher?

I would tell you that I do have concerns about in just as a point of reference, that building was not built in that specific building on that property.

On that property, if you look at the property appraisers, it's all those buildings in the area.

That building was not built to in 1950.

Well, it says Lions Club building.

I'm just telling you that building was not there in 1950.

Well, when was it built in?

1965.

Well, they put 1971.

And it was modified in 1971.

What proof do we have?

What did they do?

Well, I'm just so another question I do have.

Sorry, I do have another question, is that I I understood we had 90 days to complete this, and because it took so many weeks to get this five this additional appraiser, where are we at on that?

I would tell you that you did receive an appraisal for your December 2nd meeting.

Uh-huh.

Subsequently, then we took another 30 days to do that.

Uh-huh.

Well, and and our date is March 5th, right?

Because we have to do that.

Well, I'm sure we could work with the December 5th.

Excuse me?

They gave us notice as of Defem December 5th.

They yes, and we do have until March 5th.

And that's fine.

Council has.

We have another meeting.

Well, let me if I can.

Sorry.

You have a resolution in front of you.

It's if you choose to not to vote, I would suggest you should vote.

I can't we can keep, I can if we don't like the answer, if the next answer comes back higher, then where we're at.

That's my just my opinion.

And you have the the appraisal that it's an MAI appraisal that has market value.

So please understand it's not that I don't like the answer.

Right from the get-go, my concern is that we did the did it correctly.

Okay.

Well, and so that's all I'm I'm hoping for us to do.

And I'm not trying to debate you.

If you if you think then let's you just throw the appraisal out.

I'm not saying that.

Let's have one conversation, please.

Right, if I may, Mayor.

If you're not satisfied with the product this gentleman's given you, then my recommendation is then we will go get another MAI appraiser.

And that's the answer.

I'm trying to massage one or say you made a mistake, then who's to say the next question's not wrong?

So I'm recommending if you choose not to act upon this, then my recommendation would be we go get a different another appraisal from a different company.

So that's I mean, trying to, and that's my opinion of this.

That I mean, I think you if it's if you think he's not qualified or he made mistakes, then why would we want to ask him for another opinion?

I I don't know that she's necessarily asking if he made mistakes.

I uh in a different opinion.

I think that she she's saying is if he used the wrong date, and that shouldn't be guesswork.

If he used the wrong date, would that how greatly would that have impacted his opinion?

And these appraisals are not cheap, and I think that it would not be outrageous to say you missed the the the age of this, and if you use this as the age of it, how would that impact it?

I don't think that's a unreasonable uh request, and I don't think that that that should cost us any money.

I mean, if there's I don't know that anything's incorrect.

I'm not saying anything is incorrect.

I wasn't here uh during this period of time, so I don't know when that building was built.

Um but just like there can be mistakes on an appraisal, there can be mistakes on the county assessor's office just equally as well.

So we see that here.

Right.

I I mean I see what the vice mayor is talking about.

I just pulled up the site year built 1950, 1971, 1983, 2016, but it's it's kind of talking about the whole area.

It it's what it's it I can't hear you.

It's talking about the whole area.

When you put up 4630, it really gives you the site address 4600.

So it gives you a heated square feet of 3,000 square feet, so that's that building.

No, that building is 40 at least at that time.

Yeah, it was 40.

Yeah, see, I I think there is some can I I think he needs to be whoever did this, if you're going back to him, needs to be a little more specific as to the exact area he's talking about, because this is a bigger, you know, define that, define the year and do those things.

He he could be wrong, he could be right, I don't know.

I mean, it's as I said, I saw what the vice mayor is talking about, but it seems to be talking about different parts of that whole parcel.

It's not as clear, you know.

Um so we need clarity, or as the city manager said, maybe this isn't the right person.

Well, maybe we need to get somebody who who understands how to look at this kind of parcel.

Well, and again, another wrong assumption was how much water there was in there and whether it was properly dried out.

He just asked the Lions Club.

He didn't ask for proof that it was dried out.

Well, and again, that you know, we have to see how that information got in if that's valid.

That information.

And even if it was built in 1971, and he says it has a 45-year life, it's past that 45-year life.

And I have I mean, from this, and I know this only goes back to 97.

I haven't seen anything that shows any kind of substantial renovation since 97, and that's 30 years.

I don't yeah, I don't know what it means by the years that they were adding on here.

Well, I mean, the amount of money just means it can't be big.

I'm sorry.

The amount of money just means the renovations can't be big.

I I mean the cleanest way to do it would probably be to hire somebody else, but if you feel uh I don't think the person should charge us if they've had incorrect assumptions.

I mean, I think we've already paid for that.

And it's not and it's not the council's fault that the city manager chose the wrong kind of appraisals for the first two.

That's kind of harsh.

You know?

Okay.

What I'd like to do here is to take public comment, and then after public comment, I will give everybody an opportunity again to speak.

All right.

So public comment.

I'm gonna call on Mr.

Bixler first.

You already know my address, and you I'm the president of the club, president of the foundation.

I met the guy.

I got a construction manager degree.

He has some courses he took in college.

So he based it on what it would cost to rebuild the building commercially.

Rebuilding the building residentially.

If you talk to Chris at the bank regions bank, it's 400 a square foot.

Multiply that times 4,400.

I think it comes to 1.3 million.

Okay.

So I said it sounds like you pretty much made up your mind what you're gonna base it on.

I goes, he's still against wall.

He says, no.

He goes, you tell me.

I go, when Cornerstone is still on the town shores, they've got laborers or carpenters who can get $65 an hour, $55 an hour, based on their talents.

Can you speak Spanish?

And can you speak fluent English?

All right.

Because that's who's doing the work.

So I asked Cornerstone, what could I with a construction management degree make?

He said $175 an hour.

That's $7,000 a week.

And he said, You want a job?

You can come to work for me any day.

So of course the guy with this degree or acronyms, whatever it is, said, Well, how do you put that into perspective with this building?

I said, Well, look at that house over there.

It's John McEwen's.

He's having it rebuilt.

You think he's having carpenters just come in, run in the mill carpenter's put it together.

You said your house was what, 75 years old?

You redid it.

What's it worth now?

Did you tear it down?

No.

Why not?

Because it was still used.

Wait, wait, wait.

Please.

But we are there.

Oh, sorry.

Stop.

That's you're kind of rambling, trying, you know, I'm not sure you're making your point necessarily.

And let's not have that.

My intentions was not to speak, but I come to listen.

And what I heard was there's no water damage.

Or there's two feet of water.

That's not true.

We're the first nonprofit in Pinellas County to get a permit to serve food.

There was one foot of water, and if you watch the uh Bay Nines news, they videoed it.

It went to a foot tall, dropped the two inches in there.

There's and I've only seen one one time somebody's been in our building.

So in that room where the hot water heater is, endeavoring reach the elements in there to hurt the water heater.

So the water did not come up that high.

We have a guy in our club that provided commercial dehumidifiers, like seven of them.

We ran them, we cleaned, we got rid of doors that were delaminated, the police came, the fire people came, a lot of people came and helped.

So when the second appraiser came, he says, I can't even smell anything.

Can I have a little bit more time?

No, you you you you could have been more effective.

Yeah, Kathy's out in the van.

I'll go get her.

She'll she'll tell you some more.

Um public comment.

Lauren.

Okay.

So I read this whole Lauren Stern, Fitzgehist Street South.

I read the whole 48 pages.

April covered many of my concerns.

Um I mean, there's serious issues.

We didn't hear anything refuted actually at all by the president.

That was a surprising public comment before mine.

Um, where is this money coming from?

Is it coming from stormwater?

Is it coming from solar?

We don't have from what I hear, a quarter of a million dollars for this.

I understand you guys don't want to break a contract, but uh uh yeah, I mean, paying a quarter of a million to demolish it is is crazy and a bad governance, and that and back to my original issue with this, which I said several meetings ago, I think in December.

Um, Christine Brown, who was on council uh is the current treasurer, her name was on that uh documents from the Lions Club.

Like, what is this lease?

I mean, how much did they actually spend to build this building?

Um so I don't understand why the lease was written this way.

And to April's point about the actual land value, those five comps that were used in this appraisal, none of them were anywhere close to the water.

They were all inland.

So the comms also I would like to say.

Yeah, so the comms also I would say uh like I would add to the list with the drywall cuts, the flood level.

Aren't these letters public of how much like didn't they measure with lasers or something how much water came up?

That should be able to be looked up.

Um yeah, there's a million issues with this, and it's very sad to me that we're gonna spend it.

Sounds like because we don't want to break a contract, but I'm actually encouraged that we're gonna look at every single hopefully every single inconsistency that uh that was brought up tonight.

And also, I'm a little disheartened to hear that we spent two different appraisals on the wrong appraisal order by the city manager, and also the city manager seemed to know what year it was actually built, but he didn't correct that or note that it was wrong when this report was given.

So that's strange to me.

Um I'm sure I'm not the only person uh who's got comments on this.

Thanks.

Um, I live in town shores.

Uh apropos not of this point.

When presentations are finished, could this come down?

My little eyes can't see through it.

Yeah.

I would like for the city of Gulfport to spend taxpayers' money as if it was your own.

We have just been through a three-year fundraising process that costs $600,000 and raised two million dollars.

There was a million given by Charlie Christ as he left, so the total raised for the senior center was approximately three million dollars.

That was my taxpayer money.

And it would be my taxpayer money to pay for the Lions Club building.

If there are errors in the assumptions, if there are inaccuracies in the facts, it those are reasons not to continue a process that is flawed.

You uh, in my opinion, I don't if I find out I I made a mistake, I try to correct it before I make the next decision.

And bottom line, I would really like for this council to think of the cost of if you're saying three to four to five thousand dollars for an appraisal versus two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for perhaps an appraisal that is fundamentally flawed in its assumptions.

I'd rather you spend the smaller amount and get it right.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Who's next?

Amy Amy Costa, 28th Avenue South.

Um I'm no appraiser or real estate person, but it seems odd to um I know, and I believe in contracts.

I do.

It seems a little odd to be paying a lot of money for a building that even the people who built it don't want anymore.

They don't want to fix it, they don't want to repair it.

Um, and we own the land, from what I understand.

So we own the land, they built the building, they used it for all of this time successfully, and then it gets flooded, and nobody wants to fix it, and now they want their money back.

And and I get it, that probably is sad for them, and they're they put a lot into it, and there was a lot, but it to me, all the years that they used it, they got their value out of it.

And for our tax money and a time when we are already scared that we're not gonna have property tax, and there's a lot of money that needs to be spent to fix our watershed and do all those things that we're unloading 250 grand for a building that we're gonna then spend another 40 to tear down and then do what with now.

We have a plot of land that now we have to either build on again or put more money into to do to develop it.

If the appraisal was not correct, and we're finding that things are not right, and that it was based on the wrong information.

I think the only right thing to do would be to redo it with all of the correct information, do the research that we need to do, make sure it's right and fair and just because right now it just seems a little wonky, and there's a lot of you know concern out here.

So I do ask that we take a closer look at this, take the time it needs.

If it comes at the end of the day, it's fair, then what's fair is fair.

But it's just odd that like we have all these houses in Gulfport that we're saying, you need to fix your house, or you need to figure out what you're gonna do, or else you know we're coming for you.

Why aren't they fixing if they want their money back, fix it, make it usable for the city, and then we do the contract.

If they're saying we can't fix this, this got flooded, we're not gonna fix it.

Well, then why are we paying for a property that is unusable and not repairable?

It just seems odd.

So I do ask the council to do your due diligence.

Let's get the new appraisal, let's find a source that works for everyone that everyone can be happy with, and let's get the right information and let's do it the right way.

Thank you.

Who's next?

Kathy.

Kathy, just reminder, you have three minutes.

Yeah, I can see it.

You can do better.

Yes.

All right.

The Gulfport Lions Club has been an institution here in Gulfport.

We give back to the community, all funds go back to the community.

Permits that were filed.

We've had a lot of donated items in order to do repairs.

One, you haven't been in since the flood.

Yes, I have.

No, you haven't.

Yes, I have.

Please please delay your comments to the return.

Okay, I'm sorry.

It was only at 26%.

We had a company come in and use dryers, use the air handlers, use everything they had.

They were there for the 90 days, whatever.

That money is going into the foundation, so it can only be spent back on the community.

So that includes the senior center.

That includes the Christmas fund.

That includes the schools.

All that money goes back to the community.

It's not for the club.

We've decreased in membership.

So we don't have a lot of dues that go to the club to do a building.

We would prefer to do our fundraising to go back to the community.

The building is concrete, brick.

It has a seawall.

We were not heavily damaged.

There's not very much drywall in there.

There's more concrete.

They came in to do and check for mold and whatever.

The only thing they found was the asbestos tile that was in the kitchen.

Everything else was complete and re and abated.

It was sanitized.

We passed two health inspections.

We were the first nonprofit in Pinellas County to pass their health inspection.

We've already served a breakfast there.

But when you have five people running the committee, that's what you have.

So it's easier for us to raise money, not spend money on electric water.

Anything that needs to be done for maintenance, and instead give it back to the community.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm gonna I'm gonna go to e-comments, unless okay.

A comments, please.

There is one e-comment from Richard Freed.

227,500, it is outrageous for the sum of $54.

Oh heck, call it $200 with inflation.

The taxpayers of Gulfport get to pay out $220, $227,500.

This drug deal smacks of the art of the deal.

Both Bill B and former council member Brown need to be ashamed of themselves.

Shame on council for even considering the extortion, it's drivel.

A contract is a contract as a contract, break the contract and good riddance to the Lions Club.

Okay.

So I want to respond to a couple of things here, and then I would like to hear everybody else's thoughts on this.

First of all, what we have to take off the table has absolutely nothing to do with the Lions Club.

Okay, whether you like them, you hate them, it's irrelevant.

Okay, whether you it's not a factor in any of our decisions.

That's the first thing I want to say.

Um, in terms of how heavily damaged it was, as we know, people who didn't get their evaluations done on the front end, it's much harder to disprove the negative as the city manager says, okay.

So, you know, we have tons of homeowners that say, No, I only got eight inches of water, and we have somebody else saying, No, your neighbors all got 27 inches, so you got 27 inches.

I mean, this is an ongoing battle, you know, and eventually we have to figure out how to do it how to deal with that.

Um a couple of times that there's this assumption that the Lions Club is walking away because of the damage of the property.

That is not the case.

They did not walk away because of the damage of the property.

Their membership is way down, they cannot afford to support that building anymore.

What was the perfect time to walk away when their lease was up?

They didn't walk away from the lease.

The lease, there was a lease, it spelled out the term of the lease, it spelled out the price of the lease, and it spelled out the buyout of the lease.

It was all spelled out loud and clear.

Did anybody up here sign that lease?

No, this happened way before our time, okay?

But it's our job to make sure that the terms of the lease and any other contract we enter into that we handle it per the terms, so that we're not setting ourselves up to be uh sued, and we're not setting a bad precedence that we don't honor our commitments.

All right.

So with that being said, the assumption that they're walking away because they didn't want to fix it, that's incorrect and pretty much irrelevant.

The building is not coming down because we say it can't be renovated.

We could probably take this 455,000 building and drop 400,000 into it and have a 1.4 million dollar business building, okay, just like homeowners are doing, and that's when he was rambling.

That's kind of what he was trying to say, I think.

That was my interpretation of what he would the point he was trying to make.

People everybody's having to make that decision.

The city is the one who said, if we get that property back, we are not going to spend money at this point to build the beautiful building on waterfront property that could flood again.

We made that decision.

The Lions Club didn't make that decision.

Then we had a workshop and we asked the public, the people who live down there, what do you want to see done with this property?

They were told not one person came up and said, well, that's not true.

One person said, I'd like a restaurant.

Okay.

That was said.

There was no consensus on that.

They wanted open space for the all the residents to be able to use to be able to use the um what it's not the beach, but the launch.

That's the word I was looking for.

Thank you.

So let's not, you know, talk about not making assumptions.

Let's not, you know, try and blow this up to to more than what it is.

Um I'm gonna be quiet and let the rest of you talk in a minute, but I feel that it would be worth it.

Being that we have three appraisals, and we have a fourth one from April of 24 that was done.

Um I and we got an MAI appraiser, which again probably should have been done from the beginning.

We have it.

We have fulfilled the terms of the lease.

I do not think it is up to us to interpret and decide whether that is worthy or not.

We have a series of appraisals.

The problem comes in is how much value was given or taken away based on some inaccurate information.

I can't, I don't think anybody up here, I don't think there's a person out here who can really say how much water was in there.

I was in there.

I did see the water line, okay.

I saw it myself.

I do not think what what did somebody say 28 inches?

That's what a piece of paper he gave me sent.

Okay.

I I do not uh believe that, not for a minute.

I would say it was under a foot from the water line that I saw, okay.

Um I do not know what kind of remediation that was done.

I know that when I toured the building that I smelled mold to me.

Now, it also had been closed up and not used for quite a while, okay?

So it's not where I would want to go have breakfast, but that doesn't mean that that couldn't be dealt with.

And when I say I smell mold, I probably bet it better back up and say it was too musty for me, okay?

But I can't say that it was mold.

So I'm gonna again let you all say what you have to say.

I think that we need to go back to the MAI appraiser and say, we see your analysis and we see why, but we think there's we know that there's a couple of mistakes, at least we think they're mistakes, in terms of a couple of issues here, and we would like those corrected, and then we'd like to see what your evaluation is at that point.

That's my best thoughts.

So that was going to be my recommendation because um the city attorney does have quite a few numbers there, and it is very confusing.

So I don't know how we could go wrong with just asking him, can you explain this to us?

Please explain where you got this from.

What how does it match up to what we believe the year was or what have you, and see if there's any changes there.

If there's no changes, I say we go with it, because I think you made a great point.

We cannot look like we're trying to squeeze out of this.

This is not that's not the right look.

It's a bad look.

So I say we go back and say, hey, listen, we have some questions.

I don't think that would be unheard of to do.

That's how I think we should handle that.

Okay, I just wanted to make clear that I did go in that building and I went with Tim Connor after the flood, just a few weeks ago.

And I get what you're saying about how much it would cost to repair that building, $400 a square foot or whatever, but that's actual cash value.

And that's how you do an actual cash value appraiser.

This is not supposed to be this, that it's supposed to be a market value appraisal.

So again, I I agree.

I think we should have him fix this.

I think he needs to not the cash value doesn't matter.

That that we're supposed to be doing a market value appraisal, and so he has to make sure that his comps are waterfront property and and I know that's hard to find because there's not that many that are comparable to this, but but that's what he needs to do and check the year, and again, it may have only been a foot in there, but something the city manager sent me said it was 28 inches.

So and we all know that the SDL letters were wildly wrong, so we we can't go entirely by that.

That had I think 27% damage or something.

And again, you know, when they didn't want to, I I get that they don't want to fix it, they didn't want the ongoing cost of repairs, but presumably they had insurance that would have paid for all their repairs now, you know, if they were going to keep the building.

But you know, we can't use that money, nor do we really want to rebuild it anyway.

But I think we need to have make sure that we have entirely accurate information in the appraisal and that the comps are accurate.

Um first I I agree 100% that it is it is not a personal situation.

I for one love all of our good organizations.

What this is about is being stewards, making sure that we're basing this on the correct assumptions and and information, getting answers to these questions and honoring that contract.

We must honor the contract, but we just need to make sure that the details are correct, and that's why I had even brought up that it was it was important that it refer to an MI appraiser appraisal, excuse me, and the market value because I was concerned that that would have an impact on the price.

Again, I just wanted it right.

Whether that meant more or less correct is the goal here.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um I like to believe that people are are knowing how to do their jobs, and I don't know anything about appraisals, but I'm happy with what we have, and I'm happy to go forward with it while also getting clarification.

And if that's an option, I'd like to be able to close this and move on, and um while also knowing that we need clarification going forward as part of the stipulation.

Okay.

And um council member Shaw, I agree that it it needs to be right, but uh being that I did many appraisals in my life, I wasn't a paid appraiser, but as a real estate broker, I did many.

I mean, I'm talking thousands and thousands, but not on commercial space, so you know, I'm my opinion means nothing uh here.

But whenever the practice that I was used to, first of all, what I'm trying to say is appraisals are very subjective, very subjective.

So in my business, what I always found was that if there was an appraisal and people were arguing over it, then the other party would got their appraisal as well.

And there was never a third appraisal done unless there was more than a five percent difference.

So if the uh seller had an appraisal and this is what it said, and the buyer said, I want to buy your house, but I think that appraisal is is whacked, I'm not gonna do that.

The seller could say, Well, I don't care what you think, and they could walk away, or they could say, Well, you get an appraisal then.

And if they were, you know, uh they and they would agree, then you're gonna get an independent appraisal.

If there were if it was more than five percent apart, then they would um order a third one.

Sometimes other people would say, Well, let's average the difference, okay.

So in this case, in each case, it's been the city who ordered the appraisal.

Okay.

Um, and I don't know, because I didn't order, I don't know what the instructions were that the MAI appraiser was given if they had the the uh actual copy of the lease and they knew the exact terms or not, I don't know.

But you know if there was to be an appraisal, uh, another appraisal done, I I don't know that we're ever going to get past this point of saying, well, we don't like that one.

And that's why before I say I don't like that one, I would tend to want to say, can we go back and ask them to the issues that Vice Mayor Thanos raised, I would like for them to go back and verify that they had accurate information.

Um I I have not gone back with this one in hand and look to see if the information used in this one versus the information used in the uh that one that was for 538,000 if they were the same.

I I do not know the answer to that.

Um I can spend tomorrow looking at that if you want, but I I don't know, you know, if everybody uses same or not, but I I don't think it would be an unreasonable request to have that done.

Um if there was to be a uh another appraisal done, which would not be the way that I would lean, um, I would suggest that we not have somebody from the Lions Club meet them there.

And can I just say too that the first two um appraisals we got were cash value appraisals, which were entirely different than market value, so you can't really compare them.

So where are we?

Mayor, it sounds like the direction is to go back to the person that we got the appraisal from and ask them to what information they had and show them this other information and see if that changes anything.

At that point, I think we should bring it back to council, and then you decide what you want to do if there's a change or if there's no change.

And also ask him to check his comps because those weren't waterfront properties.

That I have no problem going back to them, but trying to tell them how to do their job.

Well, yeah, I I agree.

I disagree with maybe the verify.

If they'll I think the number one issue that seems to be is the depreciation aspect, because what's their data, you know, and I understand because the property appraiser shows all the big parcel.

We had to specifically pull that parse that building out of the appraisal, but I'm not gonna get into that.

What I'm suggesting is we go back and ask them the number one question.

What what year of construction did you use?

I think that's a fair and where did you get it?

And is it accurate?

Yep.

The accuracy of the construction date.

But yes, and then the depreciation from that.

I I I've done enough appraisals to to tell you that there are times this is a really unique situation.

So, you know, there might not be, I mean, we certainly don't want to go to another state to find another waterfront property that closely fits.

So you try and do the most ideal situation that you can, and when you can't get anything lined up just perfectly, you do the best that you can.

I do not feel like it is uh the council should be questioning um the comps that were used in the and the and and and how I mean we even had the person who backed up this appraisal but came to a different uh figure.

We had that person also say that they thought that the work that went into it was all accurate information.

So I do think that um unless there was another stumbling block, I think that the age that it was built, therefore the depreciation is probably the stumbling block that I think is reasonable.

And and the comps, because he also mentioned the comps.

The what?

The comps that they used.

Yeah, but I don't care what somebody else's opinion was on the comps.

I'm I'm paying a professional.

And I think it's I understand you looked at them.

Are you a MAI appraiser?

No, I'm not sure.

Okay.

I can look at this and see.

I'm not an idiot.

I can look at stuff and read it.

And and also I think it's exactly our job to question this kind of stuff.

That's what what we got elected to do is be fiscally responsible with taxpayer money.

I agree.

All right.

Uh so attorney, where are we at this point?

Question that vote or age and the depreciation.

Well, I know we have the we've all agreed on the age and depreciation.

I'm not sure everybody has agreed.

I mean, I know the vice mayor has talked about the comp issue.

Um, and then there's been the issue of the water damage, but I haven't heard.

I I don't think we necessarily have direction on those two issues, whether that is something you want us to ask them or bring up to them.

You know, I I mean I personally don't have any problem bringing up what uh the vice mayor's appraiser said this, this, and this, just to hear what they have to say.

You know, they may say, well, I disagree with that, or they may say that's something I considered.

I mean, I think it doesn't hurt to ask those questions.

And and even finish his thoughts, please.

He's he's talking to us.

So I think that would be my approach that I would recommend.

Uh we definitely want the age issue, but the other issues look.

This was a this is some information that was gathered with the different, we're not telling you how to do your job, but did you consider these things and is there anything you could address with them?

I think that's a fair request.

I mean, he he could say, No, I'm not that's it, I'm done, right?

Um, which is if that happens and we come back and say, okay, what do you want to do?

Okay.

And one of the things about the comps that was very unclear to me is that this building is not in good condition.

Even if it's dried out and it only had a foot of water, it still is not in good condition.

And you couldn't tell from those comps the condition of those buildings.

And if you were buying a house, that makes a huge difference.

He went to the structure.

He saw what that's yeah, but he didn't probably go in all the other structures that he used as comps.

Well, I I mean I understand that, but that's he's supposed to know how to do that.

But I think that's if he doesn't know how to do it, then we have the wrong person for sure.

Yeah.

Having done many appraisals, I had to compare to other properties, and I didn't mean I walked through all of them because they were closed properties.

You looked at your photos, you looked at your descriptions, you made phone calls, you did what you needed to do to make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

And as I already said earlier, in some cases, on a unique scenario like this, where we're talking about a building and not the land, we're not going to have him have a hundred comps to compare by.

So he has to figure out how he can do the best.

Um, because those are the comps that are used, doesn't mean he didn't look at ten other comps to try and figure out what would be the closest fit to apples to apples.

Well, and and I think uh councilmember Shaw brought this up from day one.

We're we're getting an an appraiser that has a certain certification, right?

Exactly.

And so you expect that person to be able to use that certification to give you that information.

Um so that that's the other thing that that's why we went and did this, um, so that we can have somebody with that expertise.

So at some point you have to say, okay, this is this person's opinion.

Um, you know, whether you want to get somebody else's because you don't like it, that's up to council.

Okay.

But at this point, I think we should go back, clarify these issues and come back to you with what they say.

So I would I know twice now I've asked you where are we?

So where I think we are now is exactly that.

That um we are raising uh uh issue that we would like to um ask the appraiser a few questions, and I think the city manager would be the person to do that.

Um that we ask that appraiser a few questions, we make sure we we make it clear to that person that we want to make sure that they are using an accurate date and where did they get it from because each year can affect the depreciation and how would that be reassessed and request that that be done for us because we believe that that is a factor and it's inaccurate as a result of that, and that um we would ask that that be done quite promptly with the idea that hopefully we could um have this by our March 3rd meeting.

Right.

Are we okay with that?

Yes, yes.

So we had a motion to on the table, but I need someone to motion the table stand motion to table.

Second, you don't need a second emotion tail.

Oh, okay.

Whatever.

She never hurts, right?

I'm the parliamentarian.

That's right.

All right, so that takes us, let's see, where are we?

That would take us to discussion, and we have no discussion tonight.

There, we just have to have vote on the motion to take.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Oh you could just do it all in the middle.

No need a second, but you need a vote.

All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed?

Passes unanimously.

Thank you, Mayor.

Alrighty, thank you.

All right, we survived tough decisions.

Um, so now we have discussion.

Um, and we don't have a discussion item on the agenda today, so we will move to new new business, and we will go in speaking order, please.

Okay.

So um about a month ago, one of my constituents asked, sent me an email, and I spoke with her, and she asked if we would consider having a dog run in Ward 4.

So I asked everybody that I'd have ever met before, people with dogs, people without dogs, people I saw on a dog walk when I had my dogs or didn't have my dogs.

And it was um a lot of excitement and backing to that.

I I didn't hear if you said a dog run or a dog pond.

A dog run.

A dog run.

Yes, okay, thank you.

Yeah, it's like a but you know there's no bench benches and things like that.

Okay.

So um I spoke with the city manager and we talked about the feasibility of this um to happen at Tom Linson Park.

And I spoke to the wonderful Tim Connor, and we're still going through some specifics.

I will come back to this group here when I have more information.

Next, maybe next meeting or the meeting after.

Yeah.

But it's very exciting.

We have so many new families in Ward 4 with small children, babies, and tons of dogs.

And instead, they're going way up, and they just kind of want to talk to their folks and maybe they meet neighbors and friends and whatnot.

I think it's a wonderful idea.

It was actually Kathy Slestry who who was who gave me the idea.

And so that's my new business.

Why are you laughing?

No, because what you said it.

And that's my new business.

It is a new business.

Very good.

Flora would love a dog park in Ward 4.

Is a dog park and a dog run the same thing?

I wasn't going to correct it.

Whichever way we go.

Whatever.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't have any new business.

But I like that.

Great.

Okay.

Councilmember Shaw?

Oh.

Okay.

Okay.

Um I would like to ask that we invite the Gulfport Young Families Council to present a proposal to us if they are willing to accept that invitation.

Uh and so I'm asking for a consensus on that.

Is that about child care meetings and stuff?

Yes, sir.

Love it.

Oh, but uh with regard to the meetings that we have here and the baby babysitting with Lauren.

They I've been going to their meetings, and there's um uh uh definitely a desire to be engaged in our process and to be able to attend meetings, and so they'd like to just talk about the feasibility of maybe even a couple hours or or whatever.

I I'm I'm gonna leave the details to them.

This is their no, I just was wondering if it was the same thing, and no doubt that that's a great idea.

So great idea.

Do I have a consensus on that, please?

Yes, yes, I think you just got it.

Okay, thank you.

Um did you say you want them to give a presentation or speak at public comment?

I mean, why do they need an invitation to come?

I don't I'm not sure.

Presentation, presentation presentation.

Okay, thank you.

Oh, yes, thank you.

Yeah, I have no new business.

And I have no new business.

I uh was gonna talk about traffic flow, but I got that in under my other comments, so we're in good shape.

Thank you all for coming and attending and speaking up.

I do appreciate it.

Uh thank you very much.

Have a good night.