Good evening and uh welcome to the Hampton City Council legislative session.

Um I want to ask the clerk to call the roll, please.

Councilman Bowman, present, Vice Mayor Brown, here.

Councilwoman Campbell, present, councilwoman Fearby.

Present, Councilwoman Harper, present, Councilwoman Muggler.

Present.

Mayor Gray.

Present.

The invitation this evening will be given by Councilwoman Carolyn Campbell, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance.

So will you please stand and join us for both.

God of love and grace, we trust in you with all our heart.

Though it may be cold outside, we are filled with the warmth of your love.

Please wrap your loving arms around our first responders so they may carry forth your grace to those in need in our city.

Thank you for being with us here tonight as we conduct the business of our city with compassion and understanding.

For this is the day that you have made.

In fact, you mentioned possible uh bad weather coming again this weekend, and as you all know, but for the benefit of our public, our streets and bridges division, which does the snow plowing has already shifted to 12 hour shifts and started pre-treating all the snow routes that are on the ball.

Um as city manager, I never really have to worry about the fact that our team is, you know, before I even get a chance to ask them, have you started?

They have started that they just care very deeply about all of you and making sure they do all of us proud.

And so appreciate Mayor taking the time to do a big shout out for them.

I want to also shout out to all of our team members, whether they're on the plow trucks or they're the police officers helping them to navigate or the 911 dispatchers handling the increased calls or the folks that are monitoring the weather.

I could go on and on.

Everyone sort of jumps into emergency mode and does what they can to make a difference for our community.

And I know we'll be equally well cared for this weekend or whenever the next weather event comes our way.

Okay.

All right.

Well, thank you for that.

And uh thank you all because I know you do a lot in terms of keeping us informed and relaying the information in on a regular basis.

So you know we never go very long without knowing what the next step is or what's going on with the storm, and we really appreciate all that you do to keep us informed and prepared.

So thank you.

Okay, with that, I'm gonna ask the clerk to uh read the protocol for the consent agenda.

The consent agenda consists of routine, non-controversial items requiring council's approval.

These items are typically adopted with one motion and without discussion.

Tonight, your consent agenda amends the fiscal year 2026 council approved budget to appropriate $610,000 from the Coliseum Fund's net position to the Coliseum Fund Capital Improvement and Maintenance Accounts.

It approves an encroachment agreement between the City of Hampton and Lumos Networks Inc.

to allow encroachment into the city's right of way along East Queen Street and Wine Street to install new fiber optic cable.

It amends the city code to align with the state code by authorizing the treasurer to issue refunds not in excess of $2,500 without the need for council approval.

And it approves the minutes from three city council meetings, and it confirms both the declaration and termination of the local emergency made necessary last weekend by the winter storm of January 2026.

All right, we need a motion in a second.

Mr.

Mayor, move approval of tonight's consent agenda.

Second.

Okay, is there any discussion?

All right, there'd be none recall to roll, please.

Councilman Bowman.

Aye, Vice Mayor Brown.

Aye.

Councilwoman Campbell.

Aye.

Councilwoman Faraby.

Aye.

Councilwoman Harper.

Aye.

Councilwoman Muggler.

Hi.

Mayor Gray.

I we don't have any presentations or proclamations and wars this uh this evening, so we're gonna move on to uh public hearings.

Uh I'd like to ask the clerk to uh read a protocol for public hearings.

The city council is committed to fair and respectful hearings.

The following guidelines help ensure an orderly process.

Individuals wishing to speak must sign up in the city hall lobby, starting one hour before the meeting and ending when the meeting begins.

Speakers will be called in the order they signed up.

Speaker shall address council from the sitter podium.

Each speaker is allowed three minutes.

The timer has a green light, which will turn yellow with one minute remaining, then red when time is up.

All comments must be directed to the council, and speakers may not yield their time to others.

After all the speakers are heard, the mayor will close the public hearing and invite council discussion and action.

Your first public hearing this evening is on 25-0322.

Is rezoning application number 25-0322 by Gloria Gigueira Lopez to rezone approximately 0.15 acres at 1700 East Pembroke Avenue, LRSN 1200 3841 from limited commercial C2 district to the one family residential R9 district with proffered conditions in order to construct a single family dwelling on a vacant lot.

Thank you.

Thank you, City Manager.

Yes, thank you.

Tonight, uh, this item is going to be presented by our planning manager Melissa Story.

I think this may be her first time presenting before council if I'm not mistaken.

So please give her a warm welcome to our Hampton team.

Welcome, Ms.

Story.

Thank you very much.

Madam City Manager, Mayor Gray.

Vice Mayor Brown, I will be presenting rezoning application number 25-032.

And is located at 17 East Pembroke Avenue.

And the applicant Gloria Lopez is here this evening.

The application is located again at 17 East Pembroke.

It's currently zoned limited to Merlin.

Excuse me excuse me, Melissa.

Will you get a little bit closer to the mic?

I'm getting a message in from the uh ABT back here.

Sorry.

Thank you.

Again, uh it is currently zoned C2, limited commercial district, and is proposed to be rezoned to R9 one family residential with conditions.

The location is indicated here by the red star and further indicated here outlined in blue at the corner of Pembroke and Smiley.

The proposal is for a 1,930 square foot single family home, two-story, three-bedroom, three and a half bath with attached garage.

And the vehicular access will be off of Smiley Road.

Here is the conceptual layout.

Again, you can see the construction entrance and the driveway off of Smiley, located here.

The house here with attached garage.

Oops.

And our current zoning map.

Again, you can see it here at the zone C2, along with several other properties along Pembroke.

The future land use.

And our current policies that relate to this property.

Proffered conditions include adherence to the conceptual plan and elevations, the proposed building materials, site plan approval in compliance with the zoning ordinance.

For staff analysis, further adopted policies for the Buckroom Master Plan.

The proposed the proposal would be consistent with the character and residential neighborhood in the area, fulfills housing demand in the Buckrow area, and improves the image of the Buck of Sorry, of the Pembroke Corridor.

This uh application was deferred previously for lack of a community meeting.

That meeting was held on January 22nd.

Staff was present, and there were no negative feedback or comments from the public.

In conclusion, there will be a public hearing, and then staff does recommend approval along with the planning commission.

And I'm available if you have any questions.

Okay, any questions for Ms.

Story.

Okay.

Uh does the applicant wish to uh present or make any comments?

Mr.

Tanner.

Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council members, uh, City Manager.

It's great to be out here.

I haven't been here uh in a long time, but this uh I just want to say to start off, this has been a very long experience for my clients.

They were very determined.

This is their dream to be able to do this.

And staff and Melissa and her team have been delightful to work with, uh caring, uh informative, and really help them through this process.

They're very hopeful for the decision you're about to make.

And uh I have truly been impressed.

Uh first of all, we had the meeting at your uh model home on Smiley Road.

Wow.

What you're trying to do in these neighborhoods is a wonderful thing.

Uh that is a a beautiful home.

And uh it's in an area that I know for years.

Uh uh it's it's been up and down, but you're bringing it back.

I want to I want to thank you for uh the staff and what Melissa did, and hopefully you will grant this motion.

Uh you have to say anything.

Are you okay?

Okay.

Well, the family, would you all stand up?

This is the family, and uh uh uh y'all made it available for any language barriers to be overcome, and uh you're certainly appreciative.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Ms.

Tanner.

I'm sorry, were there any questions from counsel for the attorney?

Okay, thank you.

No questions.

All right, Miss Story.

We didn't have any further questions from you, so with that uh we'll move on.

Is there a motion uh for this item?

Yes.

I'm sorry, can you just go through the formality of opening the public hearing for this item, please?

Thank you.

Small small piece of business that I forget.

Okay, this item does require a uh public hearing.

And um see uh we have two people signed up on uh one person signed up for this item, and it's Mr.

Tanner, he's already spoken.

Do you have any additional comments, Mr.

Tanner?

No, Mr.

Mayor.

Okay, thank you.

So with that, uh we'll close the public hearing and then now call for a motion.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I move that council approve rezoning application 25-0322 with seven proper conditions as found in the agenda package.

Second.

All right, motion and second.

Uh is there any further discussion?

Okay.

Well, so to the uh family, I I know you had to wait some additional time and uh work through the uh uh community meeting process, and uh we appreciate your patience with that and actually getting the meeting schedule.

So uh so now we'll go ahead and vote on the item so I can call a roll.

Well, I'm asked the clerk to call a roll.

Councilman Bowman.

Aye, Vice Mayor Brown.

Aye.

Councilwoman Campbell.

Aye.

Councilwoman Faraby.

Aye.

Councilwoman Harper.

Aye.

Councilwoman Muggler.

Aye.

Mayor Gray.

Aye.

The next item on your agenda is another public hearing on item 25-0266.

It's a use permit application by Margaret LaFranc Art Foundation Inc.

to permit the development of a private museum at 1609 and 1611, Aberdeen Road, LRSN's 300 3863, and 300 3862.

Mr.

Mayor and Council members Ms.

Story will be doing this presentation as well.

All right, Ms.

Story.

Thank you.

Again, I'll be presenting use permit application number 25-0266 at 1609 and 1611 Aberdeen.

This use permit application is to allow for the development of a private museum in the C2 Limited Commercial District.

Location is indicated here by the red star.

Further outlined in yellow.

With approximately six employees, including security, offering classes, featured speakers, and night exhibits.

Hours of operation would be Tuesday through Saturday, 10 a.m.

to 8 p.m., closed on Sundays and Mondays.

Here is a layout of the interior, showing classroom, gallery, cafe, gift shop area.

Exterior rendering.

And here is an enhanced view of the parking lot showing parking spaces with the 25 24 foot drive aisle.

And here is an overall site plan showing the museum in relationship to that parking lot.

And you can see down in the corner, it's all show also showing some enhanced curb and gutter from Edgewood onto Aberdeen.

Proposed land use.

Staff analysis is the provides needed educational services to the community.

The proposed location is compatible with surrounding land uses with minimal impact to the surrounding neighborhood, considering the uses permitted by right in the C2 zoning district.

There's a limited uh list of conditions.

The full list is in the packet.

Adherence to the conceptual plan, a property line vacation, the landscape plan, adherence to the Coliseum Central Design Standards with fencing and screening, the hours of operation, traffic circulation, capacity, certificate of occupancy in compliance with laws, and revocation and nullification.

The community meeting was held on July 8th, 2025 with no opposition, although general concerns were raised on traffic circulation, drainage, and sewage.

And in conclusion, uh there will be of course the opportunity for public hearing and staff and planning commission recommend approval.

Okay, any available for any questions uh for uh Ms.

Story.

Okay, all right.

None from you.

Uh the applicant is present.

Does the applicant with wish to uh speak?

She is present, yes.

Good evening, honorable mayor, vice mayor, and members of the chamber of commerce.

I'm sorry, not the chamber of commerce, but the uh city council and city manager.

My name is Sandra McKenzie, CEO and President of the Margaret LeFranc Art Foundation Museum, and I'm here to address some questions which you had last time.

As a brief history, that is what the property looked like 14 years ago, and this is what we are wanting it to look like today with the Margaret Lefranc Art Museum.

Four years ago, I made an offer, or at first I met with the city staff, including Michael Hayes, and at that time they gave me the blessing for uh for the uh Margaret LeFranc Art Foundation or Museum.

I received their support, and only then did I actually close on the property with their blessing.

And then the planning commission approved it, and it then we met uh in November in November, and then in December uh it got tabled until now, and so here we are.

That uh the next screen, please.

One of the questions you had was what kind of transportation am I using?

It's a transit, very much like what you have in your uh fleet.

It's uh everything uh the vehicle movement requires only one reverse and one forward motion.

All circulation is fully contained within the parking lot.

Vehicles safely enter and exit a 24-foot aisle.

Park uh they park within the standard nine by eighteen spaces.

There's no maneuvering that occurs in the public right away on Edgewood, so there's no interference with traffic.

There's a single controlled entrance and exit, which prevents any circling on Edgewood.

So there is no interference, Edgewood at all.

What we have done also is we have uh if you look at the parking lot, uh Donald Davis has widened the entrance onto Aberdeen Road.

Now, here's the crux of the debate, if you want to call it that.

Traffic and trip generation using the Institute of Transportation Engineers Trip Generation Manual.

This 3,0900 square foot museum generates six peak traffic hour trips.

Three cars in, three cars out.

Now, if you had a commercial uh venture there it during peak hours, you would have 12 to 15 cars in, 12 to 15 cars out.

Mine has less impact.

In fact, I could almost stand here and say that it'll have no impact.

And the reason is my operating hours are from 10 a.m.

to 4 p.m.

And that is different from the people on Edgewood who will be going to work.

So that avoids any neighborhood peak travel times.

My hours miss their hours.

The um you had some questions, I think.

Donald, could you answer any questions on the BMP?

And then I'll come back.

Mr.

Mayor, members of the City Council, staff members.

My name is Donald Davis.

I'm located at 3630 George Washington Memorial Highway in Yorktown.

Um I'm a land surveyor with Davison Associates.

Um we prepare the site plan that you have in front of you tonight.

Um there's some issues, I think you came up with the city council meeting back in December about drainage on this particular site.

Instead of the drainage coming off of the site and going downstream, the drainage will go into three individual BMPs.

Those BMPs are designed based on again state standards, and the amount of drainage that leaves the site will be substantially less than what occurs there today.

So this is really good.

It won't impact downstream at all in this piece of property.

Now one of the other things that uh Ms.

uh was discussed was the number of parking spaces here.

The number of parking spaces are the required number by Hampton standards.

Um again, I took a look at the uh uh manual uh IT manual for VDOT and also for the uh federal government, and the number of spaces here again are greatly reduced from what could be designed and used in this particular district.

So the spaces here will actually have many fewer spaces than or what required.

Um I'd be glad to answer any questions if I could questions from council members.

Vice member, yeah.

Thank you, sir.

Um the last time I asked a question about um your your the park and standard parking is uh according to code, but what about the turnaround in your in the driveway?

That was a concern as well if you had a school bus that would drop off youngsters for um to visit a museum.

I mean first of all, there are no school buses that would be permitted here.

Uh the uh traffic that would be coming into the site that would be by the students would be from a small vehicle and they would fit within these uh nine by eighteen parking spaces, and they would not impede the traffic whatsoever.

They would allow a vehicle to be able to back up in a 24-foot wide aisle and be able to then go out onto Edgewood Drive.

Okay.

Councilman Bowman.

Uh thank you, Mayor.

Um, the packet that was submitted said uh the operating hours will be 10 to 8 Tuesday through Saturday, and the representative said 10 to 4.

In addition, the hours indicated pretty much you stated that it wouldn't interfere, but has anyone contacted the neighbors to find out what shifts they work?

Because I'm not sure how you can determine 10 to 4 that you wouldn't impact uh any kind of traffic.

That is a dead end street, a count of the houses is 26 houses with multiple cars, multiple people living in the houses.

So I just want to know how did you determine that 10 to 4 that that would not impact the already crowded uh intersection?

Well, typically of course we designed a large number of uh sites like this for traffic impacts, and this particular site between 10 and 4 o'clock is not normally when traffic uh accesses a site.

If people are leaving work in the morning, they usually leave between say 6 and 8, 8 30 or 9 o'clock, and they usually return home after 4 to 6 o'clock in the afternoon.

So the impact here would be almost minimal.

Okay.

Any other questions?

Okay.

Thank you.

Any dropping off would be within the parking lot, too.

I know the the timer didn't go off, but how much time does the applicant have remained?

The applicant has I'll defer a force of the city attorney, but the applicant has 10 minutes.

I set the timer.

I paused it when council began their questions.

There's three minutes and 43 seconds remaining.

Okay.

And so you and they may request rebuttal, but there are three three minutes and forty-three seconds left now.

Right.

Ms.

McKenzie, go ahead.

Was there a question for me?

Any questions for Ms.

McKenzie?

Was there a question on no?

We they don't have any further questions.

The uh my final comments are as you can see, there's a big difference in what the property uh did look like and what it can look like now.

As a matter of fact, uh some of it has been corrected.

The um following extensive coordination with the city staff, this is a fully compliant project, and it's receives the staff support before I closed on the property, and this is an opportunity for the committee of everyone to provide something that is a value for the community, opportunities for children, adults, college students, a partnership with the Virginia Peninsula Community College.

The site will be well lit.

In the past, you've had homeless on the property, and as high as last year.

You've also had drugs on the other corner.

So I'm trying to also prevent that by having uh police on the property, and um this improves the conditions of the area.

It limits traffic impacts, enhances safety, and delivers lasting educational and neighborhood benefits.

I respectfully ask the council to approve this project that replaces neglect with stewardship, disorder with safety, and a long-term vacancy with cultural and educational value.

And once you take your vote, I would like to have five seconds of your time.

Thank you.

All right, thank you.

Well, I'm sorry, we have another question.

Uh Council Woman Ferry.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

I'm I um Councilman Um Bowman already asked the question, and I'm looking back through the uh presentation that was made.

Could you speak a little louder, please here?

Yes, yes, ma'am.

Can you hear me now?

Better.

In the in the package that we received, the presentation package that we had from the city, it says the hours of operation are Tuesday through Saturday from 10 a.m.

to 8 p.m.

That is something I didn't set.

I've said that it's 10 a.m.

to 4 p.m.

The only time it would ever go past 4 p.m.

might be an exhibition.

Uh and the students at Virginia Peninsula Community College have asked that they use that museum for their showcase.

So the hours of 10 to 4 are not going to impact the neighborhood on edge uh on edge water.

Uh but on Edgewood, by the way, did you get them the uh email that I sent to all of you uh stating that the sewer and the lateral lines were not did not fall within my purview, and that you have a purchase order.

I did the homework to hype save some of your time to make your job easier.

Uh that there is a purchase order for Billy Witt to do that job.

And he's a Mr.

McKenzie to have taken care of that.

Ms.

McKenzie, can staff uh Miss Michael or Miss Storey answer the question about the hours that were in the package, 10 a.m.

to 8 p.m.

Uh yes, sir.

So the 8 p.m.

was to allow for the occasions when there would be an evening exhibit, so that there wouldn't be any requirements to have to come back and amend hours of operation.

So it doesn't mean that she has to be open till 8 p.m.

every night.

It just gives her the option if there's an evening event that she could be there till 8 p.m.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

Anyway, did you get yeah, we're we're straight on we're straight on the hours.

The memo.

Yeah.

Any call any further questions for Ms.

McKenzie?

All right, Vice Mayor Borant.

Yes, thank you.

Um in terms of uh the the neighbors, I know there was a neighborhood meeting, but had you gonna have occasion to talk to any of the neighbors about the project yourself?

At the community meeting.

Yeah, at the meeting, yeah.

Absolutely, we talked about it, and Han Vu was there at the time.

Okay, because we've got a uh I got a I received a correspondence my colleagues did too regarding uh concern from neighbors uh with some issues uh relevant to this project.

I reason I asked it because you may not have talked to neighbors personally because they didn't show up for a community meeting, but was there any effort to go beyond that and don't you didn't have to?

I'm just asking a question.

Do you go beyond the community meeting just to maybe knock on some doors and ask some people about the live about the uh museum?

I did walk down the street uh a month ago, and and they said that they were very much aware of the museum and that they were in favor it uh in favor of it.

The one neighbor, Jamie Joyner is the one who does not understand that my hours of operation are not going to impede her hours of operation.

Now, she has uh people uh she has a mission or something that she conducts on that street, she's going to generate far more traffic than I am.

I'm not going to have any traffic from 10 to 4 that's going to impede the neighborhood existence whatsoever.

So I'm not sure that she understands.

But you will have some traffic.

Pardon me?

You will have some traffic.

Pardon me?

You will have some traffic.

If you open 10 to 4, don't you expect customers to come into your establishment?

The only traffic that would be would be from 10 o'clock in the morning, 10 to 4 in the evening.

So you will have traffic.

And uh but that would not be during their peak hours of when they go to work and when they come home.

Uh that would be uh Ms.

McKenzie, I'm just trying to get them what's going on.

I'm just trying to get some clarity on it.

Pardon me.

You I'm trying to get some clarity here.

You you cannot determine what people's work schedules are.

You you tell us that from 10 to 4, you're not going to be impeding in one's workouts.

We don't know that.

You don't know that.

You can assume that what you don't know.

And there will be traffic.

When I mow the lot, the two lots repeatedly.

I have watched the traffic flow, and I'm the one who mows it.

So I I know what's going on.

I see them walk their children to school and uh I've talked with them about the uh museum, and they can barely wait because they're also going to be receiving free drawing lessons so that they not only are learning how to draw, not for just art, because drawing isn't just for art, it's for other occupations as well.

Any other questions from council members?

Okay.

All right, thank you, Miss McKenzie.

My pleasure.

After you take your vote, if I can have five seconds, that'd be great.

This is a public hearing.

Um there's only one person signed up, Miss McKenzie.

I think you signed up again on the public hearing.

You didn't have to do that because you're the applicant for the use permit, so you get time to speak.

So we don't we don't need to um bring you back for that.

So there are no other people signed up for public hearing, so we're gonna close the public hearing and uh call for a motion.

Mr.

Mayor.

Um, as I looked at the um the motion that we have, I'm concerned about some of the wordings, so I'm gonna make my motion with a little bit of adjustment to the wording on the landscape plan.

So I move that council approve use permit 25-0266 with 15 conditions as found in the agenda package with the conditions modified to require substantial conformance rather than compliance with the conceptual plan.

Sir Second Second Further discussion councilman Bowman.

Mr.

Mayor, um this item came before us in December, and um as a resident, as a homeowner, my first duty is to look back and see what the community, what the residents desire for their neighborhood.

And receiving an email, you know, outlining that there are several neighbors, and it's not about the water line that are concerned about the amount of traffic, and I have personally drove down that street.

There is a lot of traffic all day long, not just 10 to 4.

It could be nine o'clock in the morning, it could be 7 o'clock in the evening.

It's a heavy traveled road.

Um, it's on a CODISAC.

I have a problem with the parking.

I have a problem with one way in, one way out, and you're gonna put a business right on the corner.

Now, granted, I'm a business owner, I welcome businesses in Hampton.

We all do.

But to me, it's not a fit for the neighborhood.

It's if you want to use this as an analogy, you could have an industrial area and put a sewing shop in the middle of it.

This is pretty much the what we're being presented with today.

I would welcome the applicant to perhaps um partner with plan and the commission to see if there are other areas in Hampton that this will be better suited for.

Definitely we need Feebus would be an awesome area to add to the arts um displays and and stores that we have in that area.

But for me, um I said no in December, and I'm gonna go on the record to say the reason why I'm saying no is this not the perfect fit, and it's a highly trafficked area that I just don't think this business would uh it would bring additional traffic.

Any other discussion?

Mr.

Mayor, uh Councilwoman Mugler.

Based on um Councilman Bowman's remarks, I did have a question.

Can we get a clarification from staff on something at this juncture?

Sure.

Um just uh if if we can pull up the overhead visual, it shows um the entrance entrance and egress from Aberdeen Road.

Uh huh.

Right, but it's from Aberdeen to Edgewood.

Uh I I just want to clarify for um for my own purposes and for the public.

The entrance to this museum is off of Edgewood, but you would take a left or a right turn off of Aberdeen Road onto Edgewood, correct?

Yes, ma'am.

And then immediately a left turn into the parking lot for the museum.

Is that correct?

So the entrance to the parking lot is a little it's right back here.

So the museum is up front, yes, closest to Aberdeen.

So when you come off of Aberdeen, you're coming this way, and you come down here and turn in.

And so are there are there existing residential homes in that segment of Edgewood?

So the residential starts about here, up at this corner, which is not shown here, but this corner right here is a little suite of I think three or four businesses.

One of them is a dry cleaner, and then there's a house a little bit further up of the entrance to the driveway, closer to these shops, but on this same side of the street as the entrance, the first house is here.

Thank you.

That that's exactly what I needed to have.

Um thank you for that.

I think um what I'm trying to illustrate from these questions is that the entrance and exit of this museum are prior to the residential neighborhood.

While yes, there will be ingress and egress off of Aberdeen onto that street, the traffic that you're gonna have from this project is not going down into the red residential area and would not have a need to go down there.

Um and so I you know, while I I'll acknowledge the location of this museum is somewhat peculiar.

Um, and we have talked about hoping that you know we might have some consideration for putting it in Hampton or Phoebus or somewhere that's uh linked with our arts districts.

But um you know, it is a high and and and good use of this land.

Um and I I don't uh surmise from what we have in these renderings that it will cause a big traffic infraction for the neighborhood.

Um and um I know there's been some discussion or some correspondence we've received from a neighbor concerned about the traffic study that was previously done.

Um, and I don't know if we could revisit the the traffic study itself just for uh to put a fine point on things here, but um that that's that's where I land on this.

I think it's um you know it's it's it's a it's a fine project, it's just very you know, little it does present some unusual um issues did you have additional questions for staff and the traffic?

I think that's all I needed from staff, thank you.

Okay, city manager, we'll be glad to redo a traffic study, you know, where uh I think there was concern about the placement of the the uh triggers to track the traffic.

I mean, I can certainly direct if council would like public works to redo the traffic study for you as to whether or not that holds this up or not.

I mean, even if you were to approve or deny it tonight, whenever council would decide, I don't mind having public works revisit that just for clarity about the traffic.

But I'm uh so I'm not taking a position either way whether you should defer or act or not.

I'm just saying I'll be glad to have public works traffic engineering redo the study.

Okay, Councilman Bowman.

One last question.

Um so we have decided we have um notated that this is us.

Oh right across the street.

Um they are businesses, right?

Am I correct?

Yes, correct, yes, sir.

So can you describe to us the parking for those businesses that are on edgewood?

How would they park and get out?

They park in front of the businesses.

Yes.

So the it's like a poll like a 90-degree angle, pull in.

So there's really no parking lot.

You're just gonna pull off the street and pull in and pull right back out.

Yes, sir.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions, comments?

Okay, we have a motion and second, no further discussion.

Would you call the roll, please?

Councilman Bowman.

No, Vice Mayor Brown.

Uh, I'm going to abstain um for this reason if we're talking now at this stage of the game of possibly at another traffic study.

Um I'm not comfortable voting up or down, so I will abstain.

Councilwoman Campbell.

Aye.

Councilwoman Farrave.

Aye.

Councilwoman Harper.

Aye.

Councilwoman Muggler.

Aye.

Mayor Greg.

Aye.

The motion carries.

Motion.

Good.

So next, uh, we're done, Miss McKenzie.

Thank you very much.

I just want to thank you.

Thank you.

Uh asked the clerk to read the protocol for public comment.

Council meetings are for conducting city business.

Public comment is allowed on matters within the council's authority and follows public hearing items.

Speakers must follow the citizen participation protocol.

Speakers may sign up in the lobby one hour before the meeting and until it begins.

Speaker shall address council from the center podium.

Each speaker is allowed three minutes.

The timer has a green light, which will turn yellow with one minute remaining, and then red when the time is up.

Please speak respectfully and avoid personal attacks.

Focus on topics within council's jurisdiction.

Do not use the platform for political campaign speeches.

Comments must be directed to the council and yielding time is not allowed.

Audience must remain respectful and refrain from interruptions.

Council typically listens without engaging engaging in discussion.

Responses may be provided by the city manager, city attorney, or council members after public comment.

Failure to follow the protocol may result in removal from the podium or meeting after a fair warning.

Thank you.

All right.

First speaker is Johnny Carroll.

Good evening, Mayor Gray, Vice Mayor Brown, to the council members and the citizen reassembled.

My name is Johnny B.

Carroll Jr., and I am proud to call myself a citizen of the city of Hampton.

Last Thursday, I had the opportunity to attend a meeting at Hampton Roads Convention Center, where I received information about Hampton's strategic master plan update, such as you see here.

In response to this presentation, I have developed this presentation of my own.

Now this is a lemon.

Highly ecstatic and extremely distasteful.

When most persons receive lemons, they think all is lost.

However, with careful planning and purposeful execution, a person can enjoy lemon custard ice cream, lemon meringue pie, and my personal favorite on a hot summer's day.

A nice tall glass of ice cold lemonade.

That is that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we must do with this city.

We must look beyond the ordinary and focus on achieving the extraordinary.

This is not just for ourselves, but for our children who are witnessing such an act.

Therefore, I ask you to look beyond the obvious and achieve greatness.

I thank you very much for having the chance to meet this presentation, and may you have a wonderful evening.

Good night.

Thank you, Mr.

Carroll.

Next speaker is Jason Leighton.

Good evening, Council members, honorable city staff, Mayor Gray, and my neighbors.

I'm Jay Leighton.

I live over in Buckrow.

And like a lot of folks here, I love this place.

Just enough to be a little protective of it.

Buckrow didn't become what it is by accident.

It started as a place people wanted to visit.

It started as a place people dreamed of visiting.

And it became a place people could actually live.

Buckrow has always been a place that people gathered.

Families, neighbors, generations.

It wasn't built to keep people out, it was built to bring people together.

Last night at the Bucker Improvement League, we heard a developer talking about how they want to come in and preserve Buckrow's heritage, its community, and its identity.

But what was presented felt a lot like paving paradise to put up a parking lot, only this time with better fixings.

The proposal includes single family homes, multifamily units, and luxury apartments.

When I asked what the starting price was, the gentleman said it would be $500,000.

Rent would be well over $200,000.

The average home price in Buckrow, the average rent in Buckrow is significantly lower.

And when development begins at a price that most of the existing community could never afford, that's not preservation, that's replacement.

Nobody here is saying Buckrow doesn't need development.

We desperately do.

But development should focus first on the people that already live there.

It shouldn't be tailored primarily for people yet to come.

The design tells a clear story, a large inward-facing complex with its own parking, courtyards, gyms, pools.

That doesn't invite neighborhood in.

Green space disappears, and that green space isn't excess land waiting to be optimized.

It's breathing room.

Removing it means higher temperatures, worse flooding, fewer places for neighbors to gather.

And when the tallest building in your neighborhood takes the closest position to the water, access shrinks and community gets managed this time behind an HOA.

And let's be honest about luxury developments, they're self-contained by design.

People use their own gyms, swim their own pools, stay inside their own amenities.

And that doesn't strengthen Buckrow, it bypasses it.

Buckrow deserves investment, but investment that strengthens the people who are already there, protects the waterfront that we all share and love, and respects the character that made this place worth living in the first place.

Good evening.

For the um cemetery report that I gave you that was written by the lawyer.

Short, uh, who's also a mayor.

Uh this article that I gave you written by Ernest W.

Porty Porta Jr.

Uh was in the Virginia Lawyer, Virginia Lawyer Register, the official publication for the Virginia State Bar.

So that's where that came from.

Uh as I said, he's currently a uh an attorney and a sitting mayor.

Uh and in this, uh he references all sorts of Virginia codes, case law and everything, and he says ownership does not convey a right to remove remains or destroy, deface, or otherwise do injury to the site, and any willful or malicious action to such effect is a felony.

But there is no affirmative duty on the part of the owner to maintain the cemetery.

They are free to essentially abandon it.

Now, um, and we also went over the uh the fact that uh an inactive cemetery still contains bodies, a former cemetery is where all 100% of the bodies have been legally removed.

So I just wanted to uh make sure that y'all are aware of that, and that uh this report or this uh paper uh was written by a lawyer and a mayor.

Um basically once it's a cemetery, it's always a cemetery, and there's no way of removing 100% of the bodies from a cemetery that uh the oldest grave that I can document as 1885.

You you can't uh and that was information also confirmed by the um Virginia uh cemetery board.

So thank you.

Thank you, Miss Roundy.

Uh next speaker is Robert Smith.

Good evening, Mr.

Mayor, Council.

Uh it appears that ICE has been given approval to turn our cities under democratic leadership upside down.

Question.

What is the difference between what happened in Birmingham in the 60s and what is happening in Minneapolis right now?

Several months ago, I spoke with Delicate Ward and jokingly said, we need you in Washington, DC.

And she said, no, I'm just trying to keep the mess happening in DC away from here.

So my question is, how do we prevent the chaos happening in other cities away from Hampton?

And two, how can we, the citizens, help?

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Smith.

Uh next speaker is Craig Knott.

Good afternoon, Mayor Gray, Vice Mayor Brown, City Council.

Uh, my name is Craig Knopp.

Uh, as you guys know, I like to be involved with a lot of different stuff, whether it be volunteering, bills, uh, or just seeing what we can do to help uh make us a better community.

Uh, a couple of things if you guys haven't been paying attention, uh, there's a lot of different bills coming out, different issues.

Uh, some of the issues I have are that it looks like we're gonna be taxed on several different areas a lot here.

Additional revenue.

Now, one of the bills looks like it's gonna throw a lot of that revenue back into the city.

So, my question is is there a plan to um decrease property taxes this year with that additional revenue coming in, or are we looking at that as growth revenue for the city for us to go and have new um projects or something like that?

Um the other things too is uh lately uh one of the roads close to my house uh has a pothole on it, and I was just wondering if I could get somebody from the city to take a look at that.

It's on uh Markham Drive and Fleming Drive.

Um, then one of the other things that I have an issue with is that um some of the delegates and senators, brand new during this um General Assembly, that they got in there and not even a couple days into it, they decided that they needed a 300% increase in salary.

That is absurd, absurd for somebody to go in there naughty only a couple days brand new into the job saying, Hey, I don't make enough.

Let me give myself a 300% increase.

So I strongly would like the city council to use our lobbying powers to tell our state delegates and state senators to say, no, you guys wanted this job, you know what the pay was, do your job.

And they're only in session 45 days or 60 days every year.

That's it.

45 or 65, 45 or 60 days, and they're asking for a pay raise is utterly ridiculous.

Now, one of the other things that I was looking at that I did not realize is that um currently there's a law out there for city employees, school board employees, or constitutional officers employees to get a grant for housing for $25,000.

Now, I didn't know about that.

That's I don't know if it's good or bad, but the issue is is the amendment that came to adjust this law out that's out there right now.

Right now, they want to do away with the 25,000 and have a no limit.

Now that that is an issue because this housing is going to be offset by city funding.

Now, I looked at the city and I looked at school board.

Constitutional officers, I did not have a chance to get to and look at that.

Now, my question is I could not find where we have adopted a agenda or a um excuse me, a law to help with that housing.

I see that there's other additional things out there.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Nut.

Next speaker is Alexander.

Sir, I'm going to uh Share Ahmed, thank you.

Yes, sir.

Would you when you come up?

Would you just state your full name?

Uh yes, sir.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

My name's Alexander Share Meta, but I go by Alec.

I'm a resident here in Hampton.

I'm a homeowner and a foster parent for the city.

Uh I have graduated from Old Dominion University with my degree in cybersecurity.

I'm a Marine Corps veteran where I learned about surveillance and data links.

And I currently work as a system administrator for a government command and control system.

I'm here to raise concerns about the use of flock cameras around the city.

The company and their cameras have major security flaws.

They've failed to address them, and the nature of the data that they collect goes far beyond the scope.

Multiple independent security researchers have found and published lists of vulnerabilities that these devices have, which include exploits to gain full access to the camera systems and the pictures that they have taken.

These cameras were erected on public property by a private surveillance company and don't adequately secure the data that they capture.

My second concern is the disingenuous nature of their data aggregation.

They're advertised as a license plate reader, but they take pictures of much more than cars.

The company is fighting lawsuits across the nation, including a federal suit that's ongoing in Norfolk right now for their intrusive AI-driven facial recognition and persistent monitoring.

We went from a few cameras to hundreds across the 757, and they track everything from your commute to work, the stores you visit, and they build profiles around those behaviors.

They've created an unconstitutionally warrantless broad search by casting a wide net of private information based on your daily movements.

These surveillance cameras cross the line of reasonable expectation of privacy, even for a public space.

And how long until a camera is in every street of every neighborhood, and how long until that data is exposed and used to hurt our community.

Now we know they take in store pictures way more than license plates, and we know that they don't secure that information.

So I want to know why Hampton has partnered with them.

I also demand the city of Hampton immediately cancel their contract with Flock Safety until an independent audit addressing these concerns is conducted.

Give us back our public property, and you can keep your billionaire-funded mass citizen surveillance systems.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Sherametta.

Next speaker is Travis Adams.

Good evening, Mayor, Council.

I'm here to provide an update on HB 10.

I talked to you guys about uh a couple weeks ago.

Um unfortunately it looks like it will die in uh committee, but HB 282 looks like it will continue on.

Uh HP 282, um rather than HP 10 is for all localities of Virginia, HP 282 is some some specific localities that have asked for uh the ability to tax land and uh improvements at a separate rate.

So Roanoke, Charlottesville, Falls Church, and Newport News uh that's passed the House of Delegates and will move on to the Senate.

I'm happy, of course, that we might see progress with this policy uh elsewhere, uh, especially in uh Hampton Roads.

Um, and I'm here to continue to hopefully convince you to ask uh for the next General Assembly for Hampton to be added to that list.

As most of you know, in the final year of his life, uh Dr.

Martin Luther King Jr.

launched the poor people's campaign.

By that point, Kang had concluded that civil rights victories alone were insufficient, that persistent material insecurity was undermining both racial equality and democratic stability.

And where do we go from here?

The book he published in the last year of his life.

He argued that our economic arrangements themselves have become a moral issue.

One of the thinkers came sided in developing his critique was Henry George, a 19th century author of Progress and Poverty.

George's insight was based on observation.

Cities were growing, developing, and accelerating, and productivity was rising, yet poverty and instability persisted.

The benefits of progress were not flowing primarily to people who are working or building, but to those who own land in the right place at the right time.

George pointed out that land is fundamentally different from other things we tax.

It isn't created by effort.

Its value is created by public decisions and shared activity.

When a city builds roads or transit, when neighborhoods become safer, when businesses cluster and jobs grow, land values rise.

Not because of what any one owner did, but because of what the community as a whole did.

We can see this dynamic clearly here in Hampton.

Since 2021, even as we've decreased the tax rate, my residential property bill has increased by about $1,300.

Over that same period, the Willow Oak Shopping Center, which we all know and love, saw its tax bill decrease from about 222,000 to 182,000.

This is about incentives.

When homes and improvements carry rising tax burdens while valuable land can sit idle at a lower cost, we should not be surprised by speculation, underutilization, higher rents, and delayed redevelopment.

These outcomes are not accidental.

They're predictable results of policy choices.

Dr.

King warned against what he calls socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor.

When working residents see their tax bills rise, and when large vacant properties benefit from remaining idle, you can't help but feel like we're ignoring his warning.

Property tax reform is a critical policy in the 21st century.

Taxing blight is a good first step.

I hope we can continue to lead on this issue.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Adams.

Next speaker is Jamie Bellgrave.

Hello, um, good evening.

My name is Jenny Bellgrave, and hello, City Council members, Mayor Gray, Vice Major, City staff.

Um, well, today I just have a couple of things.

Um, one is um safety on roads that have big, big, big holes.

There is one big one in Denny's and Margarib Vulgar.

I don't know if the city takes care of that or if it's the Denis uh property manager there who takes care of that, but it's huge and it's a safety hazard.

So if we can do something about that, that would be great.

I'm sorry, Miss Belgrade, just to be clear, is that on Murphy Boulevard on the street or in the parking lot?

It's on the parking lot, like entering on the parking lot.

All right.

You know, like you make a right and then immediately make a left, and it's on that entrance.

Okay, it's huge.

Thank you.

Uh-huh.

And then the other uh point that I would like to make today is um when the city of Hampton uh contracts a company, and this company, let's see, renders services such as fixing a road.

Do they do that with warranties or insurance?

Or the city has to pay every time a road is fixed.

So what the money, you know, like how we say, how does it work when we when a company renders services?

And one easy example is we need a street fix.

So they come in, they fix it, then later on, let's see in two years, they need to redo the fixing.

Do we pay that again or the city pays that again, or is it a warranty, an insurance in place that will take care of that?

That that's really it.

Thank you so much.

And it's nice to see you all.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Miss Belgrade.

I saw the speaker signed up for public comment, so we'll close public comment period.

Um city manager won't address some of the items, so issues that were brought up.

Sure.

I I I'm not gonna comment about the federal and state, you know, legislative matters because that's not really my purview.

Uh I will deal with the administrative matters at hand um and reverse order.

On uh roads, uh, when we pave a road, um it's basically we repave it.

Usually when you see people come in and do something later, it's as a result of a utility company doing work.

And then that utility company is responsible for repaving it.

So um I'll use Fox Hill Road as an example.

Fox Hill Road has come up a lot recently because the city had had done work out there and now it's being worked on again.

That is actually a Virginia natural gas project, not a public works project.

So Virginia natural gas is opening the road to do work and its conduit to improve the natural gas distribution.

When they're done, they will pay to put it back.

So it just depends upon the situation.

It could be a water leak under the road that might cause a road to be reopened, and then it would be waterworks' responsibility.

So that's generally how it works.

Roads generally don't need a warranty.

Now when we buy other city services, it depends upon the type of services.

Some things that we can get warranties for, we do get warranties for, but not everything are there warranties available for.

So the city basically self-insures itself, which means that instead of paying premiums to an insurance company, like you or I might do for our house, we set aside insurance payments to a risk management fund.

And if something happens, we're able to draw that.

And we do that, and most cities do that because it's cheaper to self-insure than to pay a third party insurer for that service.

So it just really depends upon the quality of uh or the item that you're purchasing.

Since you asked about roads, I specifically dealt with a road example.

Um, in terms of the pothole and the parking lot, that is a private owner's responsibility, not cities.

The city does take care of potholes in public roads.

Sometimes they're private roads, um, in which case it would be the private property owners.

But if you will look behind you, and this will pertain also to Mr.

Knopp's question about the pothole.

I think he mentioned on Martin Drive.

Um, Michael Bowry, can you raise your hand so they can see you?

Uh Michael is our interim public works director.

If you will give him the locations, we will work either if it is our responsibility for dealing with it, or if it's a private individual, we will alert the private company of their responsibility.

Um not really going to get into the federal and state issues.

I do want to uh thank Mr.

Um Alexander.

I'm sorry I didn't remember how to the pronunciation of your last name for being a foster parent.

Foster parenting is a great gift to the community, and I want to thank you and anyone in our community who's choosing to be a foster parent.

Um in terms of Ms.

Roundy, I just want to acknowledge, you know, but for others, uh, she gave me some material today uh to review.

Our team is going to be looking at this further and we'll advise council based upon what she provided.

I just wanted to note that for the public record.

Um, in terms of the Buckrow um proposal that Mr.

Leighton spoke about, I want to be clear.

We don't currently have an active development proposal before the council for consideration.

Um in fact, the council has indicated that it wanted to get the strategic plan and an updated master plan for Buckrow completed before we would entertain any particular development proposal.

Um we, I believe, are at the RFP stage of getting the master plan consultant work done.

I don't believe we've received the that bid is actually closed out yet.

Um that doesn't mean that developers can't come and talk about things they would like to do, but I just wanted it for the record, so there's no confusion, there's no pending um land sale, rezoning, use permit, or anything of that nature.

So that doesn't mean that people can't talk with you all and share ideas, and you know, we welcome people to look at our community and think about ideas and what works and doesn't work, but the council felt like before we would do more with BuckRow, we should have an updated master plan, and that process will involve the public.

Um then I speaking of the master plan and strategic plan, I want to thank Mr.

Carroll for attending.

Um we had a good turnout for the strategic plan meeting.

I think we had a good cross-section.

I will say the the one thing that was a little disappointing is we didn't have younger people.

Um we do realize that younger people often are juggling lots of responsibilities.

Many times their parents have children or their young professionals just getting started, and so it's hard to make a community meeting.

And so the mayor and I were talking yesterday about how we might expand our efforts.

I will say for anyone watching the the meeting tonight, we do have the survey online that people who attended the meeting, Mr.

Carroll described, were able to take to let us know what they liked and didn't like about the draft master uh the draft strategic plan.

Um I'm sure Mr.

Carroll completed that since he was there in attendance.

If you weren't able to attend, please go to our social media site or our website and you can review the draft master plan and give your comments both pros and cons, things we might have missed, all that is available.

Please help me get the word out to our younger audiences.

And when I say younger audiences, I mean like 40 and under.

We didn't have very many people in that age category.

So I know sometimes when people hear young, they think only children, uh, but I mean, really, the the preponderance of people in attendance who are probably 45 and older.

And so we want to make sure we're getting good cross sections from our community.

We're gonna look at ways we might take a couple extra weeks.

I haven't even had a chance to tell my staff so they're hearing about this at the same time you all are, but to go out and really try to get some more of the um what I call younger audience uh views just to make sure that we haven't missed anything that's particularly important as we plan for the future of our community.

So thank you, Mr.

Carroll for coming and giving me the opportunity to explain what we're doing with the strategic plan and invite people who haven't yet participated to please participate.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

All right, thank you.

So next I'm gonna ask the uh clerk to read the motion required for appointments.

Okay, motion sorry the motion required this evening is to defer appointments to the Citizens Police Advisory Group, the Citizens Unity Commission, Peninsula Alcohol Safety Program, and Golf Course Advisory Committee until February 11th, 2026 on the Hampton Redevelopment and Housing Authority, appoint Dr.

Marion Clifton to serve a first full term until September 30, 2029, appoint shell reappoint Shelton Tucker to a second term until October 25, 2029, and reappoint Clarissa Wright to a second term until February 28th, 2030.

On the Board of Zoning Appeals, request that the circuit court reappoint Edwin Chip A.

McCurlin to a second term until March 31, 2031.

And on the Senior Citizens Advisory Committee, reappoint Tanya Grant to a second term until February 28, 2030.

Reappoint Louis Dawley.

I'm sorry, reappoint Lewis Dawley and James Goodbody to second terms until March 30, 2030, and appoint Laverne Campbell to a first term until March 30, 2030.

So move.

Second.

Would you call the roll, please?

Councilman Bowman.

Aye.

Vice Mayor Brown.

Aye.

Councilwoman Campbell.

Aye.

Councilwoman Fairby.

Aye.

Councilwoman Harper.

Aye.

Councilwoman Muggler.

Aye.

Mayor Gray.

Aye.

All right.

Are there any other reports from the city managers, city council, staff, or committees?

All right.

Are there any items of new business?

All right, there being none, we are adjourn.