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Board members, please unmute yourself and respond by repeating your name, saying present when I call your name.

I am JD Bartell, the chair, and I am present.

Uh Douglas Elliott is not present.

Truman Edminster.

Present.

Stephen McNeil.

Present.

Bree Kelman.

Present.

And Director Robert Williams.

Deputy Director Robert Williamson.

Present.

Thank you.

We have a quorum.

As chair would like to comment on how this meeting will be conducted.

All speakers are asked to fill out the speaker request form, turn it into the front desk, and each speaker will be heard in person when I call on you.

Historic Preservation Office staff will open with a brief introduction to the appeal that is before the board.

The appellant or the representative will be next and will be given a reasonable time to make your presentation.

Written comments will also be entered into the record by staff.

The appellant may have time for rebuttal if desired.

Finally, board members may have questions for speakers, which will not count against the time allotted for speaking.

Thank you, Chairbartel.

And good morning, Commissioners and members of the public.

I'm Robert Williamson, Acting Secretary of this Commission, and Deputy Director of the Houston Planning and Development Department.

My report will be very brief today as I have no announcements or comments.

So in closing, if you've got questions, you can call the Houston Office of Preservation Hotline at 832-393-6556 or visit our website at HoustonPlanning.com.

This concludes my report.

Thank you.

The prior meeting minutes were posted with this agenda.

May I have a motion and a second to accept these minutes if there are no changes.

Motion to administer Second Kelman.

All those in favor.

Aye.

Passes unanimously.

The next item.

It sounded like your microphone went out.

Oh, consideration of and possible action on an appeal of the decision of the Houston Archaeological and Historical Commission on June 18th, 2026, approving with conditions a certificate of appropriateness for an addition at 1118 2 Lane Street in the Houston Heights West Historic District.

This is Staff Person Terrence Jackson.

And today I submit to you item two at 1118 2 lane.

The property includes a historic 943 square foot one-story craftsman style single-family residence situated on a 6600 square foot interior lot.

Located in the Heights Historic District constructed circa 1915.

Thus the applicant would like to request to remove the stone piece piece by piece, repair the foundation and wall framing, then install siding in place to in place of the stone.

Staff believes this will place a huge financial strain on the project, and the applicant requested that the HAC consider the stone be placed with be replaced with siding.

Staff and senior structural inspector revisited revisited the home on June 5th, 2026.

Please see the additional photos in the inspector statement in the staff report.

The applicant proposes to construct a 1,770 square foot rear edition.

The first floor will have a 732 square foot addition, and the second floor addition will be 1,038 square feet.

They plan to maintain all existing windows and doors, partially demolish the rear wall to accommodate for the rear edition, to be constructed with the max ridge height of 26 feet 10 inches, construct the second floor eve height with a 20 feet 7-inch top Eve.

Construct the roof with new composition shingles at five with a five and a half uh five over 12 roof pitch.

The existing four over 12 roof pitch is to remain.

They will construct the home with a nine-foot first floor ceiling and a nine-foot second floor ceiling height.

Installed new windows to be wood or wood clad, inset and recessed in the addition.

Smooth cement tissue siding and trim at the addition.

Existing finished floor height is one foot three inches and will be raised to two feet for the alteration.

They will repair existing fascia and soffits with in-come material and remove existing stone and replace with wood siding.

At the June 18th HAC meeting, staff recommended approval.

The HAC's ruling was approval with conditions that the original veneer is retained, repaired, and reinstalled in place with no substitution of siding for the original material.

Chair, members of the HPAB, the owner is here and available for questioning, as well as our structural inspector, and the owner has information he would like to share.

This concludes my presentation.

Board members, do we have any questions for staff?

I guess I have one question.

Is staff's recommendation to go with your original recommendation prior to the uh we can't make a uh change in recommendation, so yeah.

Yes, okay, thanks.

Okay, I don't have the speaker card.

Okay, we have one speaker signed up for this uh agenda item, a Stephen Robinson, who uh is the owner of 1182 Lane.

Uh before you speak, please state your name into the microphone.

My name is Stephen Robinson.

Okay, my name is Steven Robinson, I'm property owner at 1118 Two Lane Street since 2014.

And so today I want to start with a different kind of story, an emotional story.

So whether it's relevant or not, it it is, I think, because it ties in.

So my great-grandfather, James L.

Jensen, uh, was a home builder in the heights at the turn of the century as a Danish immigrant.

And uh he built my mother inherited those homes from him in 1972 from her grand her grandmother and lived with her grandmother, was raised by her grandmother.

His one of his properties is at 712 721 Arlington Street, which is now historic, listed as an historic house, one and a half story landmark designation by the City of Houston and registered by the Texas Historical Commission.

So that being said, when I get back to that, sometime in 2014, right before we bought the home at Tulane, the property there.

Took my mother, who was in lay uh starting stages of dementia back to her grandmother's house at 721 Arlington.

And the person, the lady that owns the house now or did then allowed us to tour the home.

My wife was with me at the time.

We said, you know what?

It would be great to have a house here somewhere in the heights.

Just and kind of kind of go back there.

So we looked, searched, search, searched, and we found this 1118.

We knew it was historic when we bought it.

We said, well, we can probably get through it.

Well, it turns out we couldn't get through it.

But let's let's back a little bit further.

So three bids, different contractors in the heights, reputable builders, Southern Green, Gabriel, Lucas, all gave us bids, and then we and then we have to work on the COA.

The COA was difficult to get through.

Everything because of the stonework, because of the conditions of the commission in those days.

So we finally, we a couple architects declined to do the job.

One, Newberry Campa took it on and did some very detailed work up to and including, I would say, winding and dining the commission.

We could barely get the foundation raised.

So bottom line, before I get into other details, if you need them, bottom line is we go to the bank.

We're even to the point in the design and construction, everything where my wife's picking out appliances for the kitchen.

We've got all these plans.

We go to Amogee Bank, Martin Atkinson, they send the appraisal appraiser out.

The total value was one million that he appraised the house for with, and this was a 3,000 foot square, 3,000 square foot addition, a little bit larger than what we're asking for now.

So Martin Agneson comes back and says it didn't meet appraisal.

We're over 80,000 short.

And our our down payment was included selling the current house that we were in at that time.

And we just didn't have the funds to do it.

So it's essentially an economic harb chip.

Now, if you want the exact bids, we also had three stonemason bids and foundation bids from the 2015-16 era.

So if you want to see those.

Currently, Masonry Solutions, 62.

Now, I want to highlight, and also, you guys have heard of Western Specialty.

Great stone people that gather craftsmen up from all over the country and bring them in.

So after I called them, and this was a couple weeks ago, they sent a guy named Ken Walters in.

He was part of these gold brick masonry teams.

He comes in and looks at the house a couple weeks ago.

I expected a bid.

He doesn't own, you know, these guys have to work.

So especially he doesn't have anything, they'll take it.

They'll take what they can get.

Well, he looked at the house and said, it's beautiful work, you know, back in the for back in the day, and uh he said he'd get me an estimate.

He goes to his business partner, and I just got this news this last week, past week, last week, and said, his business partner said, we don't want this job.

He also said that now let's go to Masonry Solutions.

And I've got a bid here from her, and she said it's pointless to try to mark and identify these stones and palletize them, because it's 40 percent breakage was her estimate.

Ken Walters, super experienced 50-something, 60-year-old guy, said also the same, up to 50 percent breakage.

The lentils above the windows are probably 150 pounds.

This is Ken says it's limestone, not cast stone.

It's probably it could be, it's probably is uh limestone.

Each piece, it's the same density as granite.

The total weight on that foundation, I know some of you guys are civil engineers, 60,000 pounds.

So it had no chance of staying intact over that long period.

In fact, what has happened is the floor joists are notched onto the foundation, and over time, none of them are original.

So, what probably happened over time as it settled into the ground, they had to actually dig out under this floor, remove the floor drawers, dig out and replace the floor joints that were rotted because of tiny little vents around the house.

So there's no circulation under the house.

Also have, we'll just keep going down the line here.

I also have two engineering reports from insight structures, Brad Daughtery, PE, first on the original COA, condemning the foundation.

And he can't really condemn the stone because he's not a stonemason, but there's that.

I have two of those reports.

Also, last week he revisited the site.

I paid him to revisit the site.

He said, if anything, it's worse.

He took photos, interior photos, the floors pulled up so we can see the foundation.

There's a there's a fascia on the exterior of the foundation where you can't really see the condition of it.

But from the inside, multiple cracks on the corners going all the way into the soil, all the way around.

So I can read his report to you if you would like.

If you want, I've got the documents here.

And I know we're not supposed to bring new evidence in also, but this is I'm not I had to gather this up.

And I can back up a little bit further.

Terrence did a good job trying to get a replica, siding replica of this home.

He did a good job putting it before the commission.

And my architect, not necessarily Terrence said, this is almost a slam dunk.

We can get this done.

So I didn't have time to prep anything to support Terrence's position of the information I've given you so far.

Umundation back in 2015.

Now, of course, Southern Green, 74,000.

Gabriel, 47, and Lucas, 78, probably more reasonable.

They also, back in 2015, wanted us to retain as much of the wood framing as possible.

The wood framing is absolutely unsuitable and dangerous to even work with.

So now we come to the current appraisal from HCAT 2026.

Land market value, 594 K.

Buildings and other improvements, 21,000.

So you can see where we're at.

Stone masonry cost versus value.

Cost versus value.

It's uh let's see what else.

So the I've also have a letter from one of the builders.

I've got a letter from Martin Atkinson on the appraisal cost versus value argument.

Um if you want to want me to read those, I can.

But also, since 2015, we've tried repeatedly to get it started again.

And we've hit the we've hit the wall on stone replacement versus a replica, a siding replica.

Each time we tried to go, Pete Carroll has visited the site multiple times.

It's kind of a famous historic home there.

I'm not sure it should have been historic.

And I I almost I wonder also today coming in, I want I wonder what my great grandfather would say about that stone house back in the day when it was built, and he would say, what are these people doing in the heights?

Every home here is Cypress and pine siding, beautifully constructed and done, right?

Cypress beams.

So he probably wouldn't have approved of that and knew it was going to have to be be a problem.

So anyway, here we are.

I'm at your guys' mercy on this.

We would love to go forward with this house and make it as historic a replica as we can make in a siding frame.

Also, this is sub it's somewhat subjective.

You have to take my word for this.

The neighbors on either side of the house and across the street would love for us to go forward on this house instead of sitting there deteriorating, falling to the ground, and just yeah.

So, any questions from you guys.

You've owned the property since 2014.

I'm curious what steps you have taken to preserve the house between 2014 and 2026.

I would love for you to visit the home and you would probably understand.

The back of the home stone structure is falling to the ground as we speak.

The settling is so severe.

The windows are not square, and they're cracking the glass in the windows.

The stone, the heavy stone is destroying the home.

And there's nothing I can do about that.

I mean, the only thing you can do about it is remove, you know, I mean, would you drill under it?

Would you I don't know.

Anyway.

So you have taken no steps to preserve the house.

That's what I hear you say between 2014 and 2026.

That would be that would be a good idea.

I build and restore homes for a living, sir.

I understand exactly what is going on with your home, but there are some steps that you could have taken, and I'm just curious if you have done anything to preserve the historic nature of this home in the last 12 years.

No.

Because why would I spend money on it to do that, right?

I mean, if I don't know the final result, when you do repairs, you have to know what you're what you are looking at, right?

What the what's the result going to be?

So you I've we remember we had already put a lot of engineering, right?

You know, we have soil engineering on that lot.

The lot itself has to be completely regraded.

It's got several low spots in it, including the where the house sits.

It had a sump pump that was not operable when I per when we purchased the house.

It was not operable, and the vents are so small.

It's like it's like you're trying to preserve something that's deteriorating faster than you can preserve it.

Sir, have you applied for a COA before June?

Oh, before this last one?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Just curious, just curious if you had gone down this road.

The COA even goes back to say 2023, 24, where commission mayors changed, commission members changed, and PDs changed during that time.

So I had during that time I'm trying to get these guys, the the other PDs that are no longer there, to go along with me.

Well, I've been here's a quote.

We don't like to go in front of the commission and just get get slammed.

No, you can't do this, or you know, we don't.

We don't we don't think this will work.

And that would be stone stone replacement.

And do you have a result from the commission on a previous COA application in 2023?

No.

It never even got that far.

They wouldn't present it to the Commission.

What we had, what we gave them, it was like who wants to do it?

They were afraid of it.

I mean, I don't know, I don't know either way to put it.

I mean, they just didn't want to, they didn't want to mess with it.

I don't know.

It was yeah.

We have multiple site visits.

At one time, three commission members also came out, and they're no longer on the commission.

So it's almost like deja vu all over, the retraining commission members almost on stone may on heavy stone masonry, which is absolutely also didn't mention this.

It is the only stone veneer house in the Houston Heights Historic District, period, full stop.

You got a fire station that has some facade of stone, but not a veneer.

You and you've got the uh library with a little bit of of cast stone at the entrance.

And that's it.

So this and does that make it special?

Yes.

If it would if it had a foundation built by a civil engineer in 1915, yes, it would, but unfortunately, it wasn't.

So that's where we are.

I heard your comments about the rear uh stone.

I think those would be automatically addressed by the addition that you are proposed.

That's correct.

So the stone damage that you are talking about on the rear of the building would be addressed at the time of which you did the addition.

That's correct.

It's no it's not relevant.

It's relevant in Mr.

Mr.

Troy's assessment of keeping the house even dry and weatherproof.

The the exterior joist, the the wall plate is exposed, and the wall joists are exposed there on the back of the home.

The whole the the back of the home, the plywood boards up, and I've got plywood on some of the windows.

The windows can't hold glass because they're settling.

So what else?

Let's see if we have other questions.

Yeah.

I have one.

Going back to 2014, and then you said you went to the bank in 2015, 16.

So I was a bit did you go through the C of A process then, or you just Oh, yeah.

We had COA approved.

The COA was approved with onerous conditions.

In other words, take each stone piece off market.

And and Ken Newberry had found a stone crew, probably Western specialties that moved a church from France to Houston and replicated it.

Now comment from Kim Walters, Western Specialties.

It would be foolish to try to take this stone off and palletize it and not catalog it.

Because it's like a puzzle, right?

You start breaking pieces or moving them out, or you just start stacking them.

Two of the stonemason bids said just that.

We will not, we're not going to mess with marking them.

Now you can imagine what that could possibly look like when you put it back together.

It's like putting a puzzle back together where you're cutting the pieces to fit.

And that's if they had enough stone to fit.

Pete and I discussed going using as much stone as possible, using a third of the frontal street-facing house, using a third of that making a third of that stone.

But think about that for a second.

The front is the most intricate detailing.

So then you start missing and breaking lentils and pieces there, then you're going to have to jerry-rig something in there.

So if you're if you're spending money on the house, and then it turns out, what does it look like?

The uncertainty of what you get with stone versus the certainty of an exact replica, historic replica siding is a no-brainer.

And the expense of doing the stone, does that make sense?

I think so.

I think my question was more around the timing of your previous C of A was in 2015.

Well, it was actually approved, yeah, 2015.

2015, I think it was approved, and then construction stuff had to go into 2016, the bidding and all that.

Right, right.

And permitting, and then you got the bids, and then you took it to the bank.

And you couldn't afford to do that.

Yeah, I can read you a direct quote from the from the case.

Oh, that's okay.

I I get it.

I just was following on on um on stage.

We we actually had to give try we tried.

Can we look at the appraisal again?

Let's look at it again.

The appraiser, Paul Fruge, he lived in the heights.

Yeah.

Excellent appraisal.

He was he was super detailed.

Yeah.

Guy.

Yes, I know him.

And the appraisal, think about it, the appraisal would have been off even more with a higher bid.

Yeah.

Right.

Um.

So but the conditions that were given then were to retain the stone and catalyze the property.

There were unknowns in the bids that I think the builders, you know, they're going to protect themselves.

Yeah.

But at the same time, what do you end up with in the finished product?

Right.

Understood.

Okay.

Thanks.

And then a second question, um, how much money and it's okay if you don't feel comfortable sharing this, but how much money have you spent to date on that?

You know, I haven't totaled up exactly, but I know the architectural fees back then were around the 40,000 range.

Okay, then whatever permitting stuff we we were doing there, and then all the things that went into that, the the soil analysis, the drilling, you know, the core samples there, the uh Brad Daughter at Inside Structures, his and you know, uh who else?

Uh and then, of course, currently, another 10,000 in architectural fees, and my young architect did not want to be here today for whatever reason.

I'm not sure he may be he may be shy about public speaking or whatever.

But uh so there's his fees.

Um I'm not sure what else.

I'm sure just the I mean it's been my wife is essentially almost given up.

She says, good luck today, but it's probably it's probably not gonna work.

She essentially has given up.

Now, it would be great if we don't have to give up.

We're both fixed income now, we're both retired.

It would be great if we could go forward with this.

We have got a grandson on Shern Street and an historic structure on Shern Street.

Grants, my daughter's there with a one-year-old, beautiful little house.

So we want to be a part of the community.

We want to do the right thing.

I'm sure you guys want us to do the right thing.

Okay.

I have a question regarding the uh foundation.

Yes, sir.

On you say you had all the architectural plans done.

What was the new foundation recommended?

Well, I can't.

Let me say real quick before you answer.

Can you address your com your response to the act to the question and not extrapolate?

Not extrapolate.

Just the response to the question.

In other words, I'm giving you too much stuff going.

Okay.

So in other words, what did Brad Daughtery say about the foundation?

No, I'm not asking that.

I'm asking what the new design was proposed that you were going to build had it gone through permitting.

What exactly was it?

Yes.

It was also, it was a grade beam.

Okay.

Pier and beam with large openings on the corners, 24-inch, right, to get adequate ventilation underneath your floor joist on a stone structure in Houston climate, which is really not a good idea to begin with.

But we but you can imagine the cost of the foundation on steel lentils above those large openings with that with the heavy stone setting on it.

So that was an extra cost on that foundation.

That was the original plan at 2015.

How deep were the beams?

I'm just curious.

Right, the beams.

Deep?

I'm sorry, not the beams, four feet on the beams, ten to twelve on the on the um peers.

They're all supported by peers.

Okay.

Super heavy with I-beam, steel I-beam across the center.

Okay.

It was it was super super conservative foundation by Brad Daughtery back in 2015.

But honestly, what I will extrapolate once again on this, his assessment would be slab on grade if you're going to do this properly.

And you don't have to worry about venting your floor structure.

On the existing foundation, what type I'm assuming it's a perimeter beam with some type of um peers underneath the house.

Oh, wait, we could have probably not drilled.

Right.

We could assume it, but I wouldn't say there would be any peers under the house.

In other words, in other words, those, you know, it's a small house.

Okay.

So the floor joists just went beam to beam across with nothing in between.

Maybe some cinder blocks.

Okay.

Maybe some cinder blocks.

Okay.

But we don't know if there's peers under the cinder blocks from that day.

I would imagine not.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

I want to extrapolate a little bit on one of the questions earlier when she asked for the cost, you talked about a bunch of the soft costs.

I have a, I'll just use my own example.

I've hired three different landscape architects, but I haven't done any shovel to the ground.

So what expenditures have you spent on maintaining or at least keeping the condition of the house stable since that 2014 date?

I'm not sure I can address that question well.

Other than other than landsc other than landscape maintenance on the lot, paying weekly and bi-weekly mowing and weed eating around the house.

But you would have to see the house to understand.

Oh, okay.

This would count.

The windows are boarded, a lot of the windows are boarded.

The there's photo do you have the grade?

Do you have good photos?

Just from Terrence stuff, right?

So I've got additional more recent photos, and then older photos of clo, you know, close-ups.

That's a that's that's probably around the time we bought the house right there, that frontal that stays up there.

The house was completely surrounded by vegetation, vines growing all around it.

That was another thing.

We couldn't really see there's a corner shot, but we but it an interior shot.

Brad took some interior shots of the foundation last week, two weeks ago.

And I think that may be in Terence's record.

Hopefully we got it in the middle of the state.

Do we have an engineer's letter?

Absolutely.

We have two of them, one from 2015 and one from last week.

I don't have anything in my packet as far as I know, Terrence.

I got you.

You didn't get it in.

Go ahead.

Yes, so staff member Terrence Jackson.

So he he received the information uh recently.

And you know, we staff can't supply new information, so um I did tell him that if he had information that he wanted to bring, then he could bring that information and share it with you guys if you were interested in seeing it.

Yeah, I've got it here.

I mean, I've got to be a good idea.

So there was nothing for the commission meeting in June of the So all this engineering conversation, nothing was presented to the HHAC.

received the information uh recently and um you know we staff can't supply new information so um i did tell him that if he had information that he wanted to bring then he could bring that information and share it with you guys if you were interested in seeing it so there was nothing I mean I'm gonna for the commission meeting in June of so all this engineering conversation nothing was presented to the HHACO right and at the time we we didn't receive the engineering letters from 2015 because he was still looking for them at the at the moment thank you can can we request a C that's for let me let me correct Terrence on that the COA on file that Terrence sent me including the letter from Brad Dowtery in 2015 the whole COA package that that the Commission had his letter was in the COA to justify what we had to do at that time.

It just Terrence missed you know there's these guys are busy they'll have to dig back through the records to see it that letter existed in front that the commission also has a has a responsibility to look back okay so what I what I'm gonna I'm just doing a point of order a little bit if you what we are here for is to review the information at that created the determination of the historical commission we can only really look at that information because we are looking at did they make the proper decision or the correct decision within the boundaries of the design guidelines if it's applicable or if it is the rel reference to the ordinance in the past if there's been a bunch more or a quantit a quantity of more new information what we have done is we have punted it back down to the HHC because we can't make a determination on all the new information if you have a preponderance of new information that you feel is reference that then we have to give it back to the historical commission because they are the body that makes the decision based on that information I understand completely yeah I understand that.

Okay and then we struggled to make because of the June 18th deferral we had June 18th to July 20th to get all this in and cram it in before this which I thought was relevant.

Let me see if anyone has any other questions.

Yeah and does does any board member have a suggestion on this agenda item I don't see anyone else and I have no other speaker cards.

I have a question for staff.

Gotcha thank you sir for your time today thanks a lot guys appreciate it so if a project excuse me if a project receives a COA does any of that information in a COA carry forward or does the COA expire and the whole process begins anew?

So CO staff member Terrence Jackson COAs are valid for two years before they expire they are prolonged if a permit is purchased and received and you know they keep going yes sir that's correct.

I believe the the rules have also changed since 2014 in the area that this is in well the design guidelines were made yeah yes everyone follows in the design guidelines do we have any recommendations on movement on this agenda item by any board member I just uh I would just like to offer from a discussion standpoint the concerns that I have that with this new information that we've heard about today that the HAHC in my opinion should have the opportunity to review that information I have grave concerns about this foundation about this house even be able to stand up going forward and so you know I personally like to see them to be able to review the new information not to give the applicant the runaround but get it to the right venue where everything can be presented such that you can get a comprehensive decision.

Let me add to his uh comment um do you have all the new information?

Um I do not have I know last we spoke we were he was waiting on um a few more quotes um like he said I did find the 2015 staff report so that can now be included um and I and he has sent some other information since then so um whether or not we have everything I'm sure before uh the next uh HHC meeting we can have everything but right now we don't to answer your questions.

Um and I and he has sent some other information since then.

So um whether or not we have everything, I'm sure before uh the next uh HHC meeting we can have everything, but right now we don't to answer your questions.

So the next one that it would be eligible to be on the if what would the deadline be for the next available not I'm not saying necessarily August, but the next available at this time commission meeting, what would the deadline be for him to provide absolutely everything that he is wanting to add that he has discussed in this meeting so that you can process and and get it on an agenda?

Um staff staff member daily on um it would be July excuse me, July 30th.

So July 30th for which which HHC meeting?

For August.

Okay.

HAC meeting.

I just nod uh do you have the ability of getting all the information to Terrence prior to July 30th?

For yes, sir.

But for what we have now, that's and I think that's adequate.

And unless I searched the world over for more stonemasons for more bids.

You don't need to do that, but you brought up multiple items that were not seen by the HHC.

Correct.

So what we're trying to do is get you to be able to go through the HHC as quick as possible.

So do you have the ability, do you have the documents to provide to Terence?

Yes.

And before July 30th would be best than July 30th, because they have a lot of paperwork.

Yes, I I got you.

I gotcha.

So yes or no.

Can you get it to my journey?

And the engineers report, I think.

Yes.

Right.

The engineers' reports will be there.

Um a detailed drawing of the existing foundation, which would be a concrete perimeter beam more than likely unsupported by bell bottom peers.

So an engineers' recommendation of installing bell bottom peers.

We'll have both of those.

All of that should be included, and that would assist you with your argument before HHAC because there was no engineers information at all in their presentation in June.

Let me reiterate.

We don't really need to be able to do that.

The architect and essentially Terrence said, Oh, the meeting's coming up.

Do I need to be there?

No.

You're you're good.

We've got this.

We we're we're fairly confident we're gonna get this, get this conversion.

So that's another mistake.

Yeah, but I know, but it's it's quite unusual to be in a situation where the staff recommends something for approval and then the commission goes in this way.

Not a good question.

I got you.

You know, so this is a quite a unique situation.

And so I I I I empathize with you on on that, like not scrambling if you didn't feel like you need to, I could totally understand being in that position.

But now that the results are what they are, you know, uh which for you is unfortunate.

I I really empathize with you on that.

But um, if new engineering information could be helpful to you with them, um maybe that's a more uh appropriate way to go, I think.

Right.

Thank you guys.

Okay, go ahead.

Uh I don't know.

I just I I feel bad for your situation.

You've had a house for 12 years.

Um that is a lot of money to be spent on doing something with it.

Um so not trying to kick the can down the road.

That's one of my pet peeves.

But if there is something that is helpful to an engineering perspective that could strengthen your argument.

Um are you not optimistic that that will help strengthen your argument?

Is that um if you look at some of the videos of the commission meetings, you might not be optimistic.

I I uh that's the only thing I can say about that.

The only additional thing I will say is that any of your discussion about the stone on the rear elevation, because your addition is going to knock out it's really not valid to the to the discussion.

That was relevant to preserving the House comment.

Yeah.

That's all that was.

Okay.

Thanks, guys.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Uh I will say one more thing.

If I would say it's as a commit as a appeals board, it's also your responsibility to make sure that the commission decisions are appropriate for for the project.

You know, there's there's no button.

I already stated that, so we we don't.

I agree with you on that.

Right.

I'm an I'm an old ExxonMobil guy.

And believe me, the buck stops where it stops.

One person can make a difference.

Thanks, guys.

Okay.

Do we have any recommendations in regards to this agenda item?

I would like to make a motion, uh, Commissioner Edminster, uh, that we remand this back to the HAHC due to the uh quantity of new information that should be reviewed by that body.

I I'll second that.

And it's not in a kick the can down the road uh state.

It's maybe that helps you.

And then if you get in the same situation, you can come back to us and we can we can use that and we can view that information in your argument.

Yeah.

All those in favor?

We have a motion and a second.

All those in favor of the motion, please state your name.

Administer aye.

Kelman I.

And I'm the chair, and I would also say aye.

Um next item on the agenda is public comments.

Followed by HPAB member comments.

I call for adjournment of this meeting.

Thank you guys.