5 30 p.m.

on Wednesday, September the 3rd, 2025.

We're in the public assembly room of the City County Building.

Welcome to the public safety committee of the City County Council.

We'll start a meeting this evening with introductions on our bottom row, Councilor Hart.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

My name is Michael Paul Hart, uh representing District 20, and I just like to ask at the before we adjourn uh to I just got an item I'd like to talk about uh as the anticipated items that may be considered during the committee.

If you don't mind, Mr.

Chair.

Thanks, Mr.

Hart.

I'm sorry, I didn't follow what you were saying, Counselor.

Yeah, I was probably that was like uh kind of jumbled.

Basically, I've got some uh there's an additional item of business I'd like to talk to you about uh talk to the committee about at after our presentations if that's all right.

Uh we'll we'll discuss it when we finish.

Uh Counselor Bain.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Josh Bain, District 20.

Thank you, Ms.

Chairman Paulinet, District 22.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, Brian Mowry, District 25.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, Dan Boots, District 3, Lawrence, Washington Townships.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, Brian Delaney, District 2.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair, Dr.

Carlos Perkins, District 6.

Top roll.

Good evening, Mr.

Chairman.

Krista Carlino, District 11, far west side.

Good evening, everyone, and good evening, Mr.

Chair.

Keith Graves, Indianapolis.

Council District 9 on the east side.

Good evening, Mr.

Chair.

Frank Maskier, District 19, Southeast Side.

And I'm Lee Warrior Robinson.

Thank you, Councillor's Chair of the Committee.

We represent District 1.

We have two items on the agenda this evening.

The third item, the early intervention planning council.

We'll need to be postponed to our next meeting.

This evening we'll have our first uh item, which is Mr.

Partners Emergency Services Agency, Mr.

Tom Sellis, and France Perel presenting.

We'll come forward, please.

And if you're here to speak to one of these presentations, either this one or the Marion County Sheriff Souls, please come forward and write your name down on the uh signing sheet first and last name, please.

Mr.

Sellis.

Welcome.

Each of the counselors do have a hard copy of the presentation.

Council members of the council is your microphone on.

Thank you.

Good evening, Mr.

Chair, and uh council members of the public safety committee.

My name is uh Tom Sullis.

I'm the chief of Mesa.

With me today, uh to my right is uh our CFO and UCFO, Frank Burelli.

Uh also in attendance from Asaws uh Director Brown of the 911 Center.

I have Deputy Director uh David Schwartz from Public Safety Communications, and also Director Jake Spence for emergency management.

Uh before uh I get into the slides on that, I'd like to uh recognize the men and women of Mesa.

Uh I call them the the quiet, the quiet professionals.

They play a critical role uh in public safety.

Our telecommunicators who are there 24-7, who've managed 1.6 million calls for service in 2024 and performing duties of a first responder.

So far in 2025, telecommunicators have given CPR instruction over the phone and have saved 40 lives with a returned heartbeat.

They helped to deliver four children.

Uh they also managed multiple critical incidents throughout the county.

The IT personnel who manage the second largest IT infrastructure for public safety in the state, uh, which also 81 law enforcement agencies rely on, 19 fire EMS agencies, and 12 other agencies that also use a system.

So DPW, Indigo, Eli Lilly, um, and others that again use that system and rely on it in order to provide safety for the people.

And then we also have our emergency management.

Emergency management is there to help you know prepare, respond to, and mitigate uh and recover from uh emergencies or special events.

This year we had the tornadoes that swept through basically the Midwest, if we remember in late April.

Uh late April, early March, early March or late March, early April on that.

Uh, we had uh emergency management personnel staffing the EOC on that, monitoring the weather and being proactive at it.

Uh in fact, as they were given updates, and the storm was heading towards the northwest part of Marion County.

Uh I received a call from Chief Bailey, IMPD, wanting an update because he wanted to know if he had to hold over his shift in case there was additional resources needed as a storm went through.

Once the storm passed through Marion County, again we had that massive flooding throughout the state, and Marion County also had that flooding.

Again, emergency management took a proactive role, playing their role.

They ended up getting together with DPW, IMPD, IFD, IMS, AES, Citizens Energy, and OPHS, and they had briefings every day on the current flooding situation throughout the Marion County, and looking at those low-lying areas within Marion County where we had residents who are prone to flooding.

Again, this is some of the stuff that they do and for it, and they play a critical role in public safety.

As we start on our slide deck, again, I wanted to say that you know, Mesa is uh divided into four divisions.

Uh, you have the 911 Center that takes emergency calls and dispatches runs.

You have public safety communications that also manages the IT infrastructure for all of public safety.

Then you have emergency management again to prepare, respond to emergencies.

And then you have the administration check of Mesa that administrative is basically taking care of hiring, uh, training, uh, things of that nature that help, you know, an OFM to help us with with the management of the agency.

When we look at uh at staffing, uh currently all divisions are close to budgeted staffing levels.

We have an active hiring process going on for vacant positions, and we are working with OFM to incrementally reach our allotted staffing numbers for the 911 center.

We continue to strive to have equitable representation across gender and ethnicity within Mesa, and we try to target those diverse areas of our community when we have job fairs or community events to let them know that again we are looking for personnel from within our community to help fill these positions.

I know that's not on the slide deck over there, but you know, again, our leadership also reflects what you see on that slide deck there.

So when you look at all the leadership positions within Mesa, uh 60% are female within Mesa, and that kind of correlates with our with our gender.

And then when we look at the executive branch, if those are the positions that report directly to me, we're basically 49% minority.

When we're looking at the uh fiscal successes of Mesa, uh, we were able to upgrade the visual situational awareness platform at the EOC.

Again, the EOC, the emergency operations center is a critical component when we have special events or anything within the city where we have multiple uh public safety or disciplines deployed that we have to coordinate those efforts together and have that situational awareness.

That was able to be done through grant funding, but again, it's one of those areas that we have not only the special events here, but we have different entities that are not from Marion County here.

So whether it's the state police or whether it's other entities that come to assist us, they're able to use this equipment since they're on different systems, they're able to you know use the equipment for everybody in that room that has command decisions to make to be able to have that situational awareness for those events or that incident.

Again, we uh provide training and information at community events that we put on for preparedness or to let them know what type of services are available to the public.

We invest in our staff through continual education and andor nationally recognized certifications to ensure that we are investing in our people.

We're also ensuring our public safety infrastructure is robust and capable of handling unexpected outages due to natural or main man incidents.

Uh you know, recently here where we're putting the battery backup system or redundant mechanisms to prevent single points of failure.

So not only that, but we also acquired uh three generators this year.

They're not like your typical generators or ones that have to be towed by a by a heavy-duty uh pickup truck in order to be able to ensure that if any of our tower sites or anything go down, that we have the ability to still have first responders being able to communicate with each other.

Community engagement and outreach.

We attend community meetings to receive input from the public.

I know that that director Brown uh tries to go to as many of those as he can personally to ensure that we're receiving feedback.

We continue to work with OPHS, CLCR, IMPD, IFD, IMS, and other public safety agencies to ensure we are providing the services needed as these agencies or organizations implement additional response requirements.

We've partnered this year with IMS and IFD and the townships to help develop and implement a nurse navigation resource for low acuity calls.

We promote our mass notification system at community events and city-sponsored events to help provide to help provide information that might be needed during those events.

Also we we've tried to provide weather radios to those who cannot afford one or have don't have the ability to have an additional way to get weather updates.

When we're looking at the 2026 goals and outcomes, uh the one big thing here that well, it's not one big thing, there's a there's a lot of them, but the one main thing here that we've been trying to strive to get going is our Calia accreditation.

We want to be accredited so we meet the standards that are nationally recognized and making sure that we are following those those standards.

We want to increase our staffing in our 911 dispatch center to continue the progress of eventually reaching that 10-second uh hold time for calls uh on there.

Uh replace the most outdated outdoor warning sirens and upgrade to our public safety uh radio system, and then to upgrade our 911 dispatch councils with the newer technology.

This is uh the total and a breakdown of the overall budget, and I know that that our CFO will go over the specifics with it on the following slides.

Fund resource.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

So we were looking at our fund resource.

So the 911 fund, it is uh state regulated fund, and that that funding comes from a service charge to all the phone carriers, and again, doesn't matter if it's a landline, cell phone, or voic line.

Um again, that's that's run by the state 911 board.

The PFC fund uh is a portion of uh the county income tax revenue, and then Mesa does receive grants from Homeland Security that get applied yearly and typically receive we usually continue to search for other grants that fit within our our scope on that, and then this year with with the federal grants, right?

We just recently found out that we were getting two of the grants that we normally get the uh EMPG grant, which helps pay for 50 percent of our salaries to emergency management personnel uh on that, and that usually runs around close to 80,000.

And then the other one is the UASI grant.

That one fluctuates from year to year.

It's not it's not consistent, and it's also specific to uh terrorism prevention, but also it's broken down even further where 20% off the top goes to the state, 35% has to go to law enforcement.

Uh there's a percentage that has to go to uh voting security on that, and then we also have a committee where all the public safety agencies to include some from Hamilton County because they are part of that UASI group uh where they get together to see what is needed and what has the most priority.

And I know, like I said, we recently just upgraded the EOC, and then also you will see that IMBD invested in it with I think a drone and also uh these vehicle barriers that are portable, so when we have these big events, there's a way to help secure them a lot better.

Thanks, Chief.

I'm gonna go through each uh character with you guys relatively quickly here.

Um character one, it reflects a about a four percent increase over last year.

Um, as Chief said, we'll send it we're making a concentrated effort of staffing on 911 calls inno to decrease those call times.

Um then also we also have the the COLA and health insurance increases that everyone's talked about so far.

Uh we are also gonna hire a civilian director of PSC as well.

Uh character two for Mesa for 26.

Uh it shows a reduction of approximately 63,000 with the remaining funds that we're gonna have.

It mostly goes to uh fuel and maintenance supplies with for our fleet computer supplies for dispatch to support the operational needs and network equipment and supplies for the radio accessories for the public safety communications.

Carector three, um there's a decrease of 1.1 million dollars and some change there.

The key thing with our COVID-3 here is we have about 7.2 million dollars worth of contracts that just are used to maintain the public radio systems, and that cost goes up every year, approximately three percent.

We had uh increase in ISA chargebacks of approximately 400,000 as well, and then as Chief said, uh we're planning for some of the grants that we normally get.

Um the way budget went this year, we and we wanted to make that concentrated effort to get as much money in character one as possible.

We decided to cut character four down to about 90,000 using it for the upgrades that we need every year to our systems.

And with that, we will take your questions.

Thank you both for your presentation.

Thomas or question counselors, Councilmascary.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Over the over the country, uh the grants are being uh disqualified or no grants.

Are you are you in losing any grants from the federal government this year or next year?

So the ones that we normally get, we we are gonna get.

Uh we just you know want to make sure that the money that we're gonna get is what they told us we're gonna get uh on that.

And I don't know if there's there's any other grants that we specifically uh get.

I know that that there's some that that the state gives out that they get federal funds for that, uh, and I'm not sure if the state grants that we usually get would will come through also.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Council.

Counselor Delaney.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um, I recently received an email from a constituent stating that he called 911 and was put on hold for five minutes.

And I know I think I remember that last year we talked a little bit about 911 wait time and um you're being able to increase salaries and to be able to recruit more workers and retain more workers.

And so I was hoping that you could talk a little bit about wait times generally, um, and then to your efforts to retain and recruit workers and if if there's any correlation there.

Yeah, so I can tell you that uh in 2022 when Mesa was first um created, um our hold times uh were at 34 seconds, right?

And that call them hold times.

No, you don't get put on hold.

Uh when you call 911, it you definitely are are being told to stay on the line uh on there, but you no one picks up the the phone and says, Hey, can you can you hold?

Uh since then we've definitely decreased that time, and so far here in 2025, we are at 15 seconds before we answer that call.

Uh so that's a dramatic decrease in our in our hold times uh with that.

And again, we still want to get better.

So there's a standard, right?

That that the two primary nationally recognized organizations for public safety communications.

Uh, you have APCO and you have Nina.

Uh they both say that 90% of your calls need to be answered within 15 seconds, and then 95% of your calls need to be answered within 20 seconds.

So again, I told you they were averages, so we're not where we want to be yet exactly, but that the five-minute hold time definitely concerns me, and I would definitely want to know more information on that to look into to see what happened at that time on that call because that's that's unacceptable, period.

We we've never had it like that unless there's something bad that happened within the city.

Yeah, and I I would love for someone in your agency just to shoot me an email because I'd like to sort it out too um for my constituent to try to figure out why that may have been the case.

It sounds like we might need some more information, and so I I would appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah, and then go to to answer your second part of your question as far as like uh retention and things like that.

So again, that's one of the things that we know that in 2023 when we thank you to the council and to the mayor's office.

Again, we were able to get their contract ratified, and again, that that helped immensely, and now there's at least a step for them to move forward, knowing that they have good representation from their union uh on that.

We also look at investing in our people, right?

We know that people look for uh advancement, they look for to be able to do something, and again, that's when we we invest in education for our telecommunicators.

You know, we're looking at getting these certifications that are nationally recognized for them that right that that helps to promote them and move them through the ranks uh on that.

Uh I know that we've we've created this peer support group also and in a lot of other kind of um things to to help them uh feel like they're they're a team uh on there.

So whether it's you know, when we have telecommunicator week where we you know bring in food or help cook food for them and do things like that, we we try to make sure we're making it as as a team environment as much as we can to help kind of retain the people that we have because it is a it is a stressful job for them.

Thank you, Counselor.

Counselor Hart Thank you, Mr.

Chair, and uh Councillor Delaney, just to kind of give you a quick response to that, and then I got a question.

Um I had a a similar kind of instance happen earlier in the year, and and I'll just you know give 100% due credit to to Mason specifically, uh a gentleman named Mark Brown uh from the 911 Communication Center did a phenomenal job resolving a similar situation.

Um I'd encourage working with them because it was it was greatly resolved.

Um they're able to go back and listen to recording and and find out what the issue was and then uh apply corrective action.

So um in those situations, I will give credit to your staff.

They do a great job of uh following up and and continuing dialogue with with counselors, but as well as the people that um were on the call the first time.

Uh outside of that, my one question I was just looking at uh from a budgetary standpoint, uh character three, and you were starting to go over it and I was putting all the paperwork together, uh, but just notice that there's again I'm taking the words in my ear from uh CFO uh Harris about the revised budget numbers versus the introduced budget numbers.

Um but I just see a you know a pretty large jump in repairs and maintenance um from the current revised number of 25 to what's being introduced um in 26, going from 3.5 to 5.7 million on repairs and maintenance.

And then I'm just going to page twelve slide 12, page six of the budget breakdown character three.

And I notice there's a bullet point referring to contractual maintenance and support for radio firehouse alerting, dispatch phone systems, contracts, outdoor warnings, sirens, and other escalators for operation.

Are those two are the are those what we're talking about when we see these jumps in repairs and maintenance from 25 to 26?

So I'm looking at page two of five.

Um character three.

Yes, to answer your question.

So we moved to some of the money that was allocated one way last year.

We kind of revised how we allocated it.

So that actually covers most most of our Motorola contracts for the radio communication systems.

Wow.

So then Motorola increase our contract.

Was there a renegotiation of that contract that required it to go?

Like does it escalate on the contract about three percent just in general?

But the way it was broken out last year versus the way it's broken out this year, it makes it look like it's a big jump, it was only a three percent jump.

It's just I I put it all in one bucket instead of spreading it out.

Okay, we can look at that one a little bit more in detail uh later time.

Thank you.

Counselor Perkins.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um thank you for the presentation.

Uh just wanted to uh not necessarily a question from uh my colleague, but to add on to that.

Um I think it's also important for it for you to make clear the difference between when a call comes in and it's recognized, it's answered versus when there's actually a voice on the other side providing some support to the constituent that's calling, because I think that's where the the gap is.

So I hear you say that we have reduced the the the call time to about 15 seconds, uh, but I wonder how much longer uh individuals have to wait to really get another voice to be able to help them once they're there.

I just wanted to add that.

Um my question is on slide number six.

Um you mentioned um the continued partnership with OPHS and CLCR.

Uh last year we talked about your staff going through the process of training to make sure uh that when they get a call in and it's a mental health crisis, that they know who uh and where to send the call.

Uh, can you just give us a kind of uh an assessment of where you think the staff is now a year later uh from our conversation last year in terms of training and ability to be able to route the call to the right persons.

Yeah, so we we continue to have CLCR uh and and and Director Brown, Miss Andrea Brown with CLCR.

Uh any time that they get new staff or that we have new staff if they can come in and and sit with our our telecommunicators with that so they get their initial training, what we've been told, hey, this is the training you need to give them, but it also is good to have them sitting next to them when they when they do get calls in there.

The thing is that you know, when we bring them in, we don't know when we're gonna get a call that involves CLCR, right?

So you it's a lot of time that and granted to uh Director Brown, she you know, her staff will stay there for eight hours uh in order to try to catch those calls uh on that.

So we continue to to work on that and we continue to try to get better at it to make sure that we're setting those calls where they need to be sent.

Just a follow-up, Mr.

Chairman?

Counselor uh would it be possible to just have a member of the staff to provide some information to me about the number of calls you received over a 12-month period that were referred to CLCR?

Uh you know, counselor let me see.

I might have brought that with me.

Um that would be awesome.

And as you you're searching for that, I I ask it um uh given um I hear in last week um when we're talking about uh the need for uh a crisis response uh versus 988 and 988 response.

So I want to make sure that we know that the calls are coming in and they're being referred.

Do you have that number?

I I I forgot to bring it with me.

Uh I know that I had it.

Wait a minute.

No, uh I know that I had it, and we do we do track that we track both 988 and CLCR, and and I can give you those numbers pretty quick.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor.

Counselor Boots.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thanks for your presentation uh this evening.

Uh this is following up on Councillor Perkins' questions.

He took the question right out of my mouth, and that was the training that your Mesa 911 operators are getting on triaging mental health crisis calls.

Um I think that's critical, and uh I would too would like to see the statistics on that, and just maybe an overview that if you could give us an executive summary of a call comes in.

Is there someone there 24-7 that is sitting next to the operator that can handle such a call, and what factors determine a call going to MCAT 988 CLCR or IMPD or IFD?

I can do that, yes.

Well, can you give us a little summary now of so I can give you a summary now?

So, like when when a call taker receives a call, right?

They have to get the critical information first, right?

So, what's your location?

We have to have that just in case that's the last thing or the only thing that can be said over the phone uh from there.

Then it goes into what's your what's your emergency, uh, and again they do prompt them to say, is this a mental health emergency so we could help gear people towards that way uh if it is a mental health uh emergency from there, that's when they take it and we look at okay, what can CLCR be sent to?

Uh if you hurt yourself, uh are there any any weapons involved?

Is there a disturbance involved in there?

Right.

So once we get all that information sent there, they will they will talk to them for a little bit longer.

But their their main job is to get CLCR started uh on there because they're not like the fire department or police department, it's gonna take them to get a little bit of time there.

If there's someone who's in mental distress like that where we have to stay on the phone with them, right?

Uh we'll stay on the phone with them, but most of the time once we get that information we let them know someone's on the way, um, we usually hang up after that.

But I could definitely get you you know detailed information on on how those calls go and maybe even try to get a recording so you guys can listen to it also on that.

Uh 988 is kind of similar, um, but what we do is we always try to use CLCR first.

Um, but if the caller is going, hey, I just want to talk to somebody, I don't want anybody coming out here.

If they're kind of steering us that way, we'll direct them towards 988.

Or if CLCR is tied up already on a call uh and there's nobody else available, CLCR, we will transfer over to 988.

What triggers call to MCAT?

So MCAT will be one that there's there's some type of a threat uh or some type of disturbance that again kind of requires that co-response uh that MCAT can provide.

Yeah, if we could get that follow-up information, that'd be great.

Thank you.

Thanks, Councillor.

Counselor McCormick.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, and apologies for my tardiness.

The call responses in with 988.

So you know, for most of us that are in here, we were told to call 911.

And so there's conversations, and I want if you could clarify last week.

I thought they said that there was you were not able to transfer the calls between if a 911 call should be a 988.

That you were not able to transfer that yet.

And that was a state.

We've yeah, we can we can do that.

Matter of fact, as 988, and I believe it was two years ago, as they were standing up, we were having monthly meetings with 988.

And it's it's easy for us to to trail in what we call it is that that warm handoff to 988.

So the difference between us and 988 is that we're able to get certain information that 988's not allowed to, there they're not allowed to ask for what I'm understanding they're not allowed to ask your name unless they ask you, hey, are you willing to give us your name or whatever?

Whereas we ask you for your name or we ask you for where location you're at, even though we might have it on the screen, but we're able to transfer calls to 988.

That's not a problem at all.

Oh, okay, good.

Thank you for clarifying that.

Um, and so I guess along with that, I I would be interested in the data and stats, it sounds like maybe instead of sending it to one of us, just send it to all of us, please.

Okay.

Um, and uh looking at like that breakdown and that shared those shared responses, right?

And if if there's any more efficiency they could look into it, I think as we're looking at these budgets and how tough they are, that um spreading some of the calls if there's a potential to do that for capacity for um for our 988, the groups that respond to 988 and those and others.

So um I would love to have conversations offline about that too.

Thank you.

Thank you, Council.

Council Hart.

Just a quick clarification uh from the director.

When when we had the public safety round table, um seem to be a lot of enthusiasm behind a program called the nursing navigator, and maybe I'm making the name wrong, but uh are these things correlated what what's being discussed by the council members and in that program?

So there is so we have so with and this was a a push by IEMS, right?

So there's a lot of calls that come through for medical help that don't necessarily need an ambulance.

Uh and we wanted to see if they're they want to see if there's another avenue where people can still get the help that they need, but they don't have to take an ambulance ride to the hospital uh where going to the hospital again.

You might be waiting there depending on you know, if you have a cold or a headache, you might be waiting there for a while.

Can we get them the service they need quicker uh to be able to so it's called yeah, nurse navigation uh on that, and we do work with them now uh on the on the calls that have been identified by the doctors who set up our emergency medical dispatching protocols on that, and then part of that is that if we do have and and again they're still working with 988 on this to try to get that we can send it to a nurse navigator, nurse navigator can spend a lot more time on the phone with this person and then make the decision if if they need to go to 988.

The caveat there is that if it's a CLCR run, we're we're just sending CLCR.

But yeah, nurse navigation is they're trying to to push it more to get those low acuity runs or runs that we can we can give to somebody else uh instead of IEMS.

Thanks for sharing that.

It sounds like a great program.

Just wanted an opportunity to hear more about it again.

Thanks.

Thank you, Council.

Council Griggs.

Thanks, Mr.

Chair.

Uh thanks for your presentation this evening.

Um just a real quick question.

Uh do you believe that uh in your organization we're maximizing the use of uh today's technology for cost savings for efficiency uh for service uh imprompt responses, or is there room to grow in that particular area?

So there is technology and we we we discuss it regularly and especially as AI is getting a lot more prevalent.

Uh we're definitely looking at it because there's some other communication centers that have used it.

We're just really hesitant if we don't see it happening in a big center like ours, right?

With the call volume that we have uh on there, but we're definitely looking at our non-emergency line, where a lot of times the person that's calling there is just needing information, or they might need a report number to give you an example.

If if uh someone steals your trash can and it's owned by TBW or you lose it, uh in order to get it replaced, you you need a case number or a CAD number.

Uh there's no so the only way you can get that is by calling us on the on the uh 3811 line, right?

The non-emergency line, and then that call taker will end up producing a CAD and giving you the number that you need in order for you to get so stuff like that that is just information or information we can guide someone to so they can get to where they need to go.

Uh AI would definitely help us with that because again, that's just information that they need.

You know, and again, there are times where people call 3011 because well, we I've got loud music uh over here.

It's not an emergency, but still needs a response.

That would have to stay with us, but AI is able to distinguish that.

We again look we've been a little bit hesitant and kind of exploring it deeper, uh, not just because of cost, but we want to see a couple other bigger PSAPs start using it to see what kind of problems they might have had or how it's working for them.

And again, we do have a couple that have been identified that we can reach out to and find out how that's going for them.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

We we have uh special commission uh on the use of AI, and I'm not sure if that's an opportunity for some of my colleagues to partner with you on, see where you guys can share information.

But I do know that that's uh that's something that we probably can look into as we talk about our service response uh to making sure we we're not you know 15 seconds or five minutes wherever we are.

I'm sure there's improvement, particularly if we can reroute those calls, uh those non-emergency calls somewhere uh that can be handled uh with technology.

So uh I I applaud you for what you've done, but I definitely think we should keep our eyes on uh the technology of today, as you mentioned.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you, Council.

Counselor Bang Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, and thank you, Chief, for the presentation tonight.

Um piggybacking off of Councillor Grave's question, something else that came up in our public safety round table is how 911 calls are recorded and then sent over to the prosecutor's office or to IMPD.

Can you uh give the rest of the committee a brief explanation of what that process is?

Yes, all all 911 phone lines, most of the phone lines.

There might be one or two, but all the phone lines were you call 911 3011, all your radio traffic between fire department, IMPD, or any any other public safety entity that uses our system, uh that's that's recorded.

And a lot of times for you know, preparation for the investigation or the trial, uh, we're asked for that audio, and that audio is kept, and our our audio records personnel have to go search for that audio uh on that, but when they get the audio, uh they have to get that audio and they have to transfer it to a CD on there.

So we're using antiquated um technology for it, but that's that's kind of the way it's been done for quite a long time uh in order to be able to fill that requirement, whether it's a detective, prosecutor, uh public defender, I mean anybody that might need it or request for information uh by a citizen.

Thank you, Chief.

Yeah, I just wanted the public and the rest of this committee to hear that because I I was personally blown away.

But in the 21st century in a first class city like Indianapolis, we are still using CDs to burn 911 calls on, and that's either mailed or hand delivered or picked up like somehow.

We then send that over to the prosecutor's office, public defender's office, INPD.

And I can't think of a more antiquated way of doing that, honestly.

I agree.

Thank you, Council, additional comments or questions.

Anyone in the audience care to speak to this uh proposal, this presentation?

See that thank you both.

Appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Up next, and the final presentation of the Marion County Sheriff's Office, 2026 budget presentation uh for Marion County Sheriff Carrie Forstal.

Oh Mr.

Sheriff, welcome.

Good evening, Chairman.

How are you doing this evening?

Um I'm Carrie Forrestall, the Marion County Sheriff.

With me is our chief financial officer, Callan Carr.

Presentation this evening.

Presentation this evening, I'll have her initiate the approximately 16 pages or 16 uh displays.

And then I'll take the last two and be open to any questions if that's good with you.

Chair.

Thanks, sir.

Mr.

Chairman, counselors of the committee, thank you for your time this evening.

My name is Callan Carr.

I am the CFO for the Marion County Sheriff's Office.

I am here to present to you tonight our 2026 proposed budget.

Um this first slide shows the organizational structure of the sheriff's office, our six divisions, and the sheriff's command staff, the chief deaf deputy, colonel, and leaders of these divisions are seated behind us this evening.

These next two slides show snapshots and statistics for the very important work the employees of the Sheriff's Office engage in every day.

These numbers cover the time period from July 1st, 2024 through June 30th, 2025, so that we could get you a full year's worth of data.

The adult detention center division is responsible for the housing care and security of more than 20%.

Is your microphone on Ms.

Carr?

I'm read.

Okay.

So a couple inquiries about it.

Thank you.

They provide food, laundry, dental care, physical and mental health care programming to the people in our care.

Programming includes religious services, substance use disorder services, suicide prevention, behavioral health, post-release service provider matching, and continuing education courses.

The judicial enforcement division transports to and from court approximately 41,000 inmates annually and provide security for more than 70 judges, magistrates, commissioners, and their courts.

Judicial enforcement also has over 80,000 transactions annually.

They provide an array of administrative services to Marion County residents, most of which generate revenue for the general fund.

The division also includes the community outreach section, which is responsible for community engagement and the MCSO's cadet program.

The admin division has human resources, training, accreditation, recruiting, quartermaster, the armory, and oversees the proper administration of the sheriff's office.

The accreditation team manages the application and renewal of several nationwide industry leading accreditations in public safety corrections and health care.

As agencies have moved to the CJC, Homeland has had to restructure posts and positions, which have required overtime usage.

The division volunteers more than 23,000 hours of time annually to the Marion County Sheriff's Office and the residents of Marion County, resulting in the savings of hundreds of thousands of dollars in wages.

We wanted to start off this evening by talking to you about the staffing at the sheriff's office.

I know you've heard a lot about that from us over the years.

Staffing was the primary focus throughout the 2026 budget development, and it was our main priority as we built a budget within our 2% growth expectations.

The budget we're presenting you this evening makes investments in staffing for the sheriff's office in both salary and an increase in FTEs.

When we built the budget in May of this year, we had 851 FTEs, which exceeded our budgeted number of 826.

Through diligent overtime management, which is a testament to the hard work of not only our frontline staff but our division commanders and command staff and a temporary hiring freeze this year.

We project that we will still be able to stay within our target character one budget number for 2025.

However, we know as a result of the KPMG study, we need to not only retain this increased staffing number but include more FTEs in this year's budget.

We worked closely with OFM on the 2026 Character 1 model and were able to develop a model that included an increase of 55 detention deputy FTEs.

This increase in staffing is intended to reduce the reliance and stabilize overtime usage.

That means the budget we present to you this evening has 881 FTEs compared to 826 in our 2025 budget.

We attribute these increased staffing numbers to the fact that not only is our attrition lower, but the interest in our positions is higher during the first half of 2025, which we attribute to the salary increases in the collective bargaining agreements.

Of the 881 FTEs in this budget, 535 of them are in the adult detention center, and of those 535, 307 are detention deputies.

While we still have a ways to go, the good news is we are inching closer to KPMG's staffing recommendation of 397 detention deputies in the ADC.

Courtline, which is in the Judicial Enforcement Division, was another area of focus in the KPMG staffing study.

Currently we have 47 of the recommended 99 deputies for that KPMG recommended for optimal staffing, and we have 15 detention deputies.

The detention deputies and courtline provide essential support by assisting sworn deputies in the courtroom, transporting inmates to and from their cells, and they also manage remote hearings.

Why we are talking about increased staffing, we felt it was important to include this chart to show staffing trends over the last several years at the Sheriff's Office and why it has been our primary focus for this budget.

A significant decline began during the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic, but the most dramatic drop you will see occurred in 2022.

I think this was a result of the lasting effects of the pandemic attitudes towards working in law enforcement and corrections, but mostly the fact that our salaries at that time were significantly lower than other agencies in Marion County and the surrounding counties.

As staffing reached crisis levels in 2022, we, in collaboration with OFM, introduced hiring and overtime incentives for our employees, and that's when you'll see our staffing numbers start to increase slightly.

Second, we've worked very diligently to obtain grant funding to enhance the medication assisted treatment program in the facility.

That program has an average daily population of 100 inmates and provides both continuation and induction treatments.

Most recently, we've worked with the city and OFM to receive opioid settlement funding, which allowed us to introduce a product called Sublicade into the program.

Sublicate is a one-monthly injection and it achieves better patient outcomes, reduces the reliance on custody staff as it eliminates the need for a daily MAT Medass for the individuals that are on it.

Third, we are very proud of our successful suicide prevention advocate program and the adult detention center.

The suicide prevention advocates are a team of individuals that work in the ADC.

They are designed to identify those in crisis in our jail, directly give them referrals to medical and mental health care resources and continued support.

Next, the collective bargaining agreements that I've already mentioned several times this evening, provided much needed salary increases to covered employees.

The Sheriff's Office, they approved our ability to not only retain the individuals we already had, but recruit new employees.

Finally, we have our robust wellness program, which includes a 31-person peer support team.

They provide one-on-one interventions to support colleagues in crisis.

They will also offer specialized trainings and wellness events for law enforcement and corrections employees.

During our last budget presentation, we mentioned to you the FCC ruling that was going into effect in January of this year.

We felt it was important to revisit as this revenue funds very important programs in the adult detention center.

These programs include inmate education programs, re-entry, wellness programs, victim services, independent accreditation, litigation costs, and our inmate tracking software.

These are a critical part of the operation of the adult detention center, and their funding loss will likely impact these operations.

We continue to monitor this ruling, and we plan to keep OFM and this body advised of the progress.

Since moving to the community justice campus, we've been very mindful and intentional with how we interact with our new neighbors and our neighborhood.

We've hosted several neighborhood events, including National Night Out, our Easter egg hunt, and the Halloween trick-or-treat.

We also participate in Faith in Blue, which is an initiative through the COPS office with the Department of Justice.

And it facilitates safer, stronger communities, and it engages law enforcement officers and local residents through connection with faith-based organizations.

I think we've also mentioned to this body several times our Through My Eyes program, which is a partnership with Martin University.

It educates the public through interactive role reversal exercises with the hope to educate and not only learn from each other but from the community partners that participate in those programs.

We made with increasing our staffing numbers, both by retaining our current staff and recruiting the additional FTEs we've included in our budget.

While staffing is improving, I think the inmate population is at its highest point in the last several years.

And continued investments in our recruitment and retention are vital for a safe and secure facility.

One of our goals is to increase our FTEs that we've mentioned to you in an effort to stabilize our overtime usage.

When our staffing was at its lowest, overtime simply became a necessary part of daily operations.

When you account for scheduling in a 24-7 facility, you have benefit leave time, sick days, FMLA, and with a critically low staff overtime becomes the only way you're able to cover positions and provide essential services.

Finally, we at the Sheriff's Office have been engaged in conversations with Eskenazi Health and have been exploring the opportunity of Escanazi Health providing medical services at the adult detention center over the last two years.

We engaged a consulting group, health management associates to conduct an analysis.

Hold on, Ms.

Carr.

Hold on, Ms.

Carr.

We want to ensure that our presenters are able to present this evening.

And you're welcome to come up for the QA after the presentation.

But our CFO of the Shurst Department is presenting.

So please be respectfully represent.

Ms.

Carr.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

We engaged a consulting group, health management associates to conduct an analysis of the current medical services system.

We developed an approved model of care, staffing matrix, and transition plan, and we remain in negotiations with Eskenazi on a potential transition.

If Eskenazi is not able to assume those medical services, we will need to initiate a request for proposal for medical services at the adult detention center.

We expect those proposals will likely exceed 20 million dollars.

And finally, we get to our 2026 introduced budget by character.

This slide outlines three different budget versions for you this evening.

The first column shows our 2025 adopted budget that we brought to you last September for a total of 141,392,282.

When the 2025 budget was passed in October of last year, we and I believe most of the other covered agencies still had not finalized the collective bargaining agreements for our deputies, detention deputies, and covered civilian employees.

Which brings us to the second column, which is the projected 2025 revised budget.

This projected revised budget reflects the 2025 spring fiscal, which appropriated additional grant dollars to the sheriff's office, and it also reflects what we anticipate the budget to include at the conclusion of the 2025 year end fiscal cleanup.

The year-end fiscal will appropriate additional as well as transfer funds to character one to account for the increases in salaries and benefits as a result of the collective bargaining agreements, which projections show we are resulting in an overspend in this year's budget of $7.4 million.

The 2025 revised Character 1 figure includes an additional appropriation in character one, totaling $6,166,224 and a $1,266,651 transfer from character 3 to character one, which results in a character one budget of $96,916,217.

The third column shows the 2026 introduced budget that we bring to you this evening, which totals 150 million seven hundred and twenty-nine thousand five hundred-three dollars.

Before we jump into a breakdown by character and fund, we wanted to highlight some of the grant awards that fund some of the work we do with the inmate population at the ADC.

We are working on implementing those changes and operating a pilot program with Sandra Eskenazi Mental Health Center, which is designed to assist unhoused inmates pre- and post-release.

The second and third grants on these slides cover our behavioral management unit, which provides re-entry and substance use disorder services to inmates in the adult detention center.

Next, we have our COSUP grant, which funds the comprehensive MAT program we discussed earlier.

It funds staff through the medical services contract to provide treatment, medication, and counseling services to the population of focus.

We also have the opioid settlement funding that I mentioned earlier.

We utilize that to provide the enhanced medications for that program, and they're designed to achieve better patient outcomes and decrease the reliance on custody staff.

Finally, as you've probably heard from several other of the public safety and criminal justice agencies, our state JRAC award for the jail treatment program was eliminated for 2026.

That grant was approximately 275,000 annually.

It funded a program with three additional behavioral managers, not those working in the STOP and VOCA grants mentioned above, but they provided services to individuals with substance use disorder.

Currently, we do not have the funding to continue that portion of the program, but we are constantly seeking out new grant sources to fill that void.

This slide outlines some of the revenue we receive at the sheriff's office, which includes the items listed here.

This slide shows our character one budget, similar to that first slide.

You have your the three versions here.

Just a little bit of a budget breakdown of our character one budget.

This uh outlines the overall highlights, increases, and changes in the 2026 Character 1 budget.

Again, this budget makes significant investments in staffing at the sheriff's office, and the majority of the increases that you see reflected are a result of the salary increases in year one and two of the collective bargaining agreements.

This also funds an increase of the 55 FTEs.

It includes the 2.6% cost of living adjustment for non-union employees, the enterprise-wide 5.6 health insurance premium increase.

Our overtime budget in the 2026 budget is 9.8 million, which is a $760,000 decrease from our 2025 overtime budget.

This slide shows our character two budget by budget version and fund.

There is a slight reduction in our 2026 county general budget, which is a decrease in fleet charge back in fuel and parts.

Thank you, Mr.

Fulkar.

Thank you, CFOCAR.

The last slide here is ICE.

We average a population at the adult detention center of about 101 people there.

We are reimbursed at 75.

The county is reindorsed $75 a day for everyone that is housed by the ICE.

Any transportation by by any ICE prisoners are handled by the Department of Homeland Security, unlike Marshall Service prisoners who required us to take them to court.

We don't do that.

They're housed all the federal, the federal government pays their medical care directly.

They're housed in two specific housing units, which are two sixty-four person cell blocks.

And for that, I'm open for any questions.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

So we'll take a round of questions from our colleagues on the uh committee.

Councilman Scary.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh speaking on the the subject of ice, you say transportation handled by the Department of Home Security.

Um do they get due process at all?

Do they ever see a judge?

Pardon me.

Go ahead, Kerry.

I think that would be more correctly directed to the to the ICE, but they do have appearances to the appearances from the cell with the video camera attention to the uh judges.

With the judge.

That's correct.

Okay.

Um next question is uh I understand we house a lot of state prisoners.

Last I heard it was 1.7 million dollars they owe you or the Marin County Sheriff's Department.

Did they ever pay?

They have not.

They have not.

How many how long has this been going on?

April of 2024.

Can you just uh take those prisoners and drop them off of the penitentiary?

I don't believe we can do that.

No, no, I didn't it's do you expect them to ever pay?

I don't know.

We had a phone call this afternoon.

Uh it's less likely, but we'll see.

All right, thank you, sir.

Thank you, Council.

Counselor um let's go leader Maury, then we'll come back to Council Perkins.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh sheriff just kind of piggybacking off that question with the uh money owed by the state.

Is there a reason given by the state as to why they're not paying it?

Initially they wanted to be sure the statewide all the bills were accurate.

Um latest, we don't have an exact information from the governor's office or their administration.

I think the Department of Corrections is going to meet with them soon, and whether or not they pay us, I think that's going to be clarified from them.

I appreciate that.

I understand you're doing what you can in your position.

You kind of have to work through the bureaucratic lens there.

And if they don't pay us, is there any recourse that we can fall back on to try to recoup some of that?

The telephone call today that I was involved with was multiple sheriffs, and there were a lot of options, including legal action was discussed by some.

Thank you.

Thank you, Linda Mallory.

Council Perkins.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um, I have a number of questions, so if you allow me a little bit of latitude this evening.

Uh, let me just uh start by making a statement uh that I've been in the council now uh for a year and uh eight months, nine months, um, and I've never been checked for my identity walking into the council building uh walking into this chamber except for tonight.

Uh so I wonder why we had XS uh security coming in tonight.

Um and then I looked at the agenda and realized that the sheriff is here.

And so we want to first of all say thank you to the staff that's here that's securing us.

Um I'm not sure why we had heightened security tonight, uh, but I just wanted to name that.

Um I have uh a few questions.

Um let me invite you to look just look behind you.

I looked on Facebook on uh yesterday and saw these flyers uh that says uh missing person.

Um and they are suggesting uh sheriff that uh you are refusing to meet with community groups uh and have community conversations.

Can you tell us why you have refused to meet with the community groups?

I actually just saw this this afternoon just before I came in there, so the first time.

I'm assuming two things that they're not going the same place as I'm going because I'm out about in the community secondly, when originally uh asked by Dr.

Higginbothan, I believe that's her name.

If we went back, I probably would have met with her.

Probably I think we'd still be sitting here tonight, and that was one of the reasons I didn't, because I didn't seem that as though they were genuine and wanting to find out more about it, they just wanted to change my position, and I wasn't going to change it.

Uh so uh thank you.

Excuse us.

Let's let's let the sheriff respond in a respectful map.

You'll get a chance to speak during your uh public comment.

Sheriff, your response is you thought then that even if you met with them, you still will be where you are tonight, but you did not meet with them.

That's correct.

And you've gotten a phone call directly from me, requesting a meeting with community groups.

That's correct.

And you still refuse to meet with community groups.

I did.

Um let me just remind you that you're public official.

You're elected public official.

And as such, you represent the entire public.

You're right.

Not just a part of the public.

I think you need to be clear on deportation.

I know that housing, there's four counties, but as for the 287 G program, there may be others.

So there are four counties that are working currently.

Why do you think that so few of the counties are working with ICE on housing?

I'm going to say I'm assuming they weren't asked, because it was clear from the directive from both the governor's office and the attorney general that we comply with the request of federal government.

So your position is you don't think that they have been asked?

My knowledge, they may not, they may have been, but to my knowledge, that's all I'm aware of as Clay, Clinton, Clark, and Mary.

Yes.

And your public statement says that you are obligated by law to comply.

Correct.

That's my interpretation.

Are the other counties obligated by law to comply as well?

From what I see from the Attorney General, I believe they are.

You believe that they are.

That's correct.

And I'm not a lawyer, but that is my position from what I've done.

But four out of ninety-two counties have complied, but they are required to comply.

Makes sense for that.

I'm sure that the uh the remainder of the 92 did not comply, they may not have been asked.

I'm not going to speak for them.

I'm just saying we were asked.

Okay.

Um and so and so again, I I uh underline uh and encourage you to meet with your community group in the constituency.

Um my colleague asked earlier um that we've received some concerns around ICE detainees not getting adequate support to submit their legal documents and properly move through the judicial process.

What is your plan to better support due process for these individuals that are a part of your system?

We house the federal prisoners, and that's all that we do.

And so there's no money.

So what I'm hearing you say, your responsibility is only to house, and that's when these residents get adequate and proper due process.

I don't determine what is due process, that's the courts.

Constitution and residents, I think are a different thing, because we're not sure all of them are from residents, but that's that's a separate issue.

That's correct.

So if we agree that due process is for everyone in the United States, and you are the the sheriff of our judicial system of our um uh judicial center, then do you think it's a part of your responsibility to make sure that that occurs?

I think the part that I'm responsible for, but these are not federal prisoners that we've made an arrest of, and that's responsibility of the courts and the federal courts.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, for for the opportunity.

Um I I do apologize to the public that's watching that we have to engage in this way with the sheriff because he refuses to meet with the community.

Um so as a refusal, then we have to bring what could be a meeting uh to a public hearing.

I have one other um question to ask.

Um research suggests to us that we have had six persons to die inside the jail over the last year.

This puts us at roughly a person dying inside our jail every 60 days.

What is your plan to address this crisis and to avoid people dying in our jail?

We constantly address it.

One of the programs we had was and we have was started as the suicide prevention advocates was to reduce the possibility of people committing suicide.

And we believe we've done that.

As for those who involved in drugs, uh we search them, we x-ray them.

Um sheet of paper this size can hold hundreds of doses of of illegal drugs that can be smuggled in.

So they could still have a risk of those who are addicted or have been without that drug and then use it again that puts themselves at risk.

So what I'm hearing you say, Sheriff, is that that drugs is getting inside the jail?

But we just heard an argument built around increased staffing.

Well, I agree that there should be increased staffing because the more staffing the better we're able to watch.

But the people will bring it in in various ways that we can we're talking an x-ray.

In addition to that, some people have taken it before they've come in.

The uh one of the deaths occurred shortly after they entered the jail, but that they've entered it right into the intake area.

Okay.

I'm going to thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Allow my colleagues to ask other questions.

Thank you, Counselor.

Counselor O'Delaney.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, and um thank you, Sheriff and Ms.

Carr for coming tonight.

Um, I have been receiving a lot of emails about um the jail or the sheriff's office holding ICE detainees, and so I was hoping you could just take a step backward um from the conversation tonight, because some of this uh what's been happening here is news to me.

Um, and and I think some of the level that me and my constituents are on is real basic.

Like, could you explain why you are holding ICE detainees?

Is there a benefit to you or your agency for it, or it kind of what I'm hearing is maybe you feel like you have a directive from the federal government and could we start there?

We don't benefit it directly from the sheriff's office, the money goes into the county general fund.

I believe that what was clear from the directive from the governor's office that said we shall be following the uh directions of holding prisoners for the federal government that was supported by the attorney general.

That's a position as executive branch.

If a judge decides to do otherwise, I would follow the law.

There's dozens of judges out there who want to make an order otherwise.

If there's a legislative branch, this body here shows that there was no private jails anymore in Marion County, and you voted to do that.

If the legislative arm of the county said you couldn't receive any federal prisoners, I'd follow that law.

It may be challenged, but that's so I'm doing it from the executive arm of the government.

So you so I the way that I understand it is you believe that you are required to do this under state and federal law.

That's correct.

Okay.

How long have you been engaged in the process of holding ICE detainees?

And I say this because as a deputy prosecutor about 10 years ago, I remember ICE coming and picking up defendants, you know, getting ready to go to court.

Like I have visual memories of it, and so I don't know where they went after that, but I know ICE being a part of our community isn't something new.

I have firsthand experience with it.

So if you was this something that's new, or is this something that the jail has always been a part of?

At least since 1996, we held ICE prisoners.

Now the numbers were six or seven, maybe, and only since the beginning of this year was the increase to sometimes upwards to 100.

Okay.

Um and then my second question is on a different topic.

Um you mentioned that you have eliminated the private security contract for this building.

So does that mean that um sheriff's deputies will now be securing the building and the criminal justice campus?

They were, and they are.

Okay.

So that hasn't changed.

It was just the additional manpower was by the private security.

But I was directed to find a two million dollar savings in this year's budget, which was very difficult to do.

One of which was to I've eliminated overtime for lieutenants and captains for the remainder of this year, which was about uh should be anticipated about a six hundred thousand dollar savings, and canceled the uh private security contract, which would be 1.3 million dollars.

So that's close to the two million dollars I was asked to find before the end of this year.

And as you were talking, my mind was kind of going back to the ICE question.

Is there any way um you know?

I see a few lawyers out in the audience.

Um, is there any way that you could refuse to not hold them or move them to another county or not participate um in this?

Is there a way to do that?

I don't believe we can as a sheriff.

Yes, yes.

Okay.

Um I'll leave it there for now.

Thank you.

Thank you, Counselor.

Additional commercial questions.

Council McCormick.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um, I sort of have two questions related.

So it'll piggyback on Councillor Delaney.

We have attorneys out here and through the administration through the executive branch.

Have they reviewed and you discussed with them?

So you believe what the directive is.

Have we had a legal team within the administration review that and confirm that message?

Well, I think it's I've given everyone a copy of the attorney general's directive, and I think it was very clear from the attorney general who met with many members of the Indiana Sheriff's Association and addressed the entire Indiana Sheriff's Association at a conference.

And he was clear that his direction was not in a uh opinion or a idea, but it was the law.

Right.

So I hear that.

I'm just asking, have we, as the city reviewed this to see if there is any leeway or any way to refuse or any of those options in this?

I have not talked to OCC about that.

Okay.

So uh council staff, if we could um maybe work to have that conversation, and I don't know others on the committee, but please include me.

Um my second question is is so we talked about what you have to do for the ICE detainees, which is house them.

Okay, so that's what we have to do.

What can we do for them?

As city, as residents, as neighbors, as a community, what can we do for them?

As counselors, as the sheriff.

We actually house them separately for the rest of the population.

There's like I mentioned earlier, there's two 64-person cell blocks, so that the people who are being held for ice are all the same status as the others.

Uh upwards to maybe 128 if every bed was taken.

What is clear is nobody is good to be on the floor.

I was part as the original lawsuit was under Frank Anderson when Judge Servant Barker said I asked her what was the most important per thing you needed to do in this co in the jail, she said nobody's on the floor.

And I've followed that from when I was there and as I came back as the sheriff.

And I appreciate that.

So because nobody should be forced to sleep on the floor.

So I I appreciate that.

My so what going to what can we do?

Can we bring in support services?

I'm sure there are volunteers and agencies in this community who would come in and help them make sure where is your paperwork, who what documentation, what are they because I don't believe that ICE is letting them have the time and what they need to get that documentation or supporting them to do that.

And I think in our community we we can do that.

Um it's the least that we can do.

Thank you, Council McCormick.

You finished?

I was just gonna say if if myself or anyone else can support in this endeavor, please let us know.

Like, and I will reach out tomorrow.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councilor.

Counselor Nay.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I I really just have two comments um for the sheriff's office uh as it relates to uh things that uh this council and the sheriff's office have been working together on for a few years.

Uh the first comment would just be to say how pleased I am to see uh the uh staffing numbers trending in the right direction, especially since the low numbers in 2020.

I I appreciate that uh you folks uh did a lot of hard work uh to convince this council for um some additional funding and adjustments.

Uh I know there was a collective bargaining agreement, so I'm very pleased to see the staffing number increase.

I think that probably takes a lot of pressure off each individual member of the Marion County Sheriff's Office.

I'm I'm equally pleased um to see uh our our deputies, detention deputies, and others um obviously recognizing those adjustments uh through both retention and recruitment.

Um I know that each one of our deputies uh you know has families and and loved ones and and uh those are critically important for their lives and uh for their uh families, and so I just wanted to acknowledge um how glad I am to see um that those two pieces uh are trending in the right direction for deputies and staff of the Marion County Sheriff's Office, and hopefully we'll be able to continue as we hope to continue with many agencies in the city-county enterprise to continue to make that forward progress, not to end back up in the same place we've seen uh over the last several years.

Thank you, Councillor Nave.

Counselor Bain.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Sheriff and your team for being here.

Uh can you confirm?

Does the Marion County Sheriff's Office enforce immigration law?

I think we'd have to we cooperate with the federal government, which includes the immigration.

Okay, but you're not out on the streets enforcing immigration law.

That's correct.

And then can you also confirm is anyone that is housed in the jail, they either committed a crime or they're suspected of committing a crime.

Is that correct?

I believe that would be determined by the federal government.

They are turning over people that they've determined and have, and we're holding them for them.

Okay.

Thank you, Council Bain.

Final comments from counselors will come back up to the public uh comment.

Councilman.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

The people of the audience need to understand that the largest mental institution in Marion County is the Marion County GO.

Forty-eight percent of the population is medicated.

Until we get someplace to put some of these people, it's going to continue that way.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor.

Ms.

Clerk, you want to do uh read your statement first, please, and then we'll do a uh public testimony.

As we move to the public comment portion of debate for this proposal, we would like to remind committee members and the public of a few ground rules.

In order for everyone to have a fair chance to speak and be heard, it is important that we each observe the following ground rules.

First, each speaker will be limited to two minutes.

Second, any public comments must reasonably relate to the agenda item under consideration.

Third, speakers who stray from the item under consideration or become unduly repetitious may be asked to move on to their next point or conclude their comments.

Finally, attendees who cause disruptions that prevent the council from proceeding through today's agenda in a reasonably efficient manner will be removed.

Please remember that some types of threatening speech or incitement to violence are not protected by the First Amendment at all.

We will deal with those issues if they come up, but we don't think they will.

And now, Mr.

Chair, if a committee member asks for consent to adopt these rules, we can proceed to public comments.

Thank you, Ms.

Clerk.

You want to call the first three names.

So if you listen for your name, please she'll read your names.

If you want to come forward and then I'll go one at a time, and you will be on the uh two-minute uh clock, that she'll present as well.

Thank you, Ms.

Clerk.

Yes, the first three names on the list are Jessica Saxton, Tanawa Downing, and Martin DiAgostino.

Thank you.

You all can come forward, state your name for the record and direct your questions to me, please.

Who am I speaking to?

Into the mic is fine.

Up this way, please.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

My name is Jessica Saxon.

I'm a civil rights advocate and litigator from Washington, D.C.

I'm here to provide public notice.

This is in accordance with USCS rules of civil procedure as well as Rule 17 and Rule 20 of the United States Supreme Court.

The Constitution for the United States of America is the overarching requirement that every state must follow.

I don't think that any one of you here would disagree with that.

States are not able to enact their own alternative legislation and substitute that for the guarantees of the Constitution.

That would mean that your state laws are more powerful than the Constitution, and that is simply unlawful.

Clause one of Amendment 5 to the United States Constitution says that no person should be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime unless on presentment or indictment by a grand jury.

However, your state has enacted an alternative legislation that allows your prosecuting attorneys, your police officers, your sheriff's department to charge their way of information as opposed to indictment, which is unconstitutional.

And emolument violation is when you pay a public official to commit a crime.

There are two areas of the Constitution that reinforces this.

The first is Article 1, Section 10.

That's where it says that no state shall create any law that shall impair the obligation of contract.

So everyone here is under a contract.

Your oath to perform based on the oath of affirmation that you took to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.

The second reinforcement of the issue regarding an emolument violation, which is when you pay a public official to commit a crime, is the 14th Amendment.

And that's where it says that no state shall create or enforce any law that shall abridge the privileges or immunities of United States citizens.

Privileges and immunities of United States citizens are at a bare minimum.

Those that are enumerated within the Bill of Rights in the First Ten Amendments.

Any time that you pay a law enforcement officer to abridge the Constitution, that is in fact a crime.

It's an emolument violation, it is illegal and it is unconstitutional.

So I'm asking you honorable individuals, please take a look at clause one of Amendment 5 that says no person should be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, and then direct your public officials to act in a lawful, constitutional manner that is consistent with the obligations codified in the Constitution, along with their oath of office.

I have a notice that I would like to put on the record, please.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for your comments.

Your name, sir, for the record.

Somebody is Tanawood Downing.

I'm the civil rights litigator that Miss Saxon was just talking about.

I'm preparing to argue this case to the United States Supreme Court on behalf of more than 700,000 people are currently in prison here in America illegally and unconstitutionally.

So I need to provide just a little bit of clarification so that you understand what just happened and how do we move forward, what we're asking from you.

So again, no state can create its own alternative legislation, go out and enforce that as though it's uh the law because that would be uh a direct violation of the Constitution of the United States.

So if your sheriff's department are going out and executing warrants because the judge is ordered them to do so, but that judge relied upon an imperial state statute to order that arrest, that sheriff's department is now depriving rights under color of the law, they're committing crime, and uh when they take them out to that jail, they're not housing them unconstitutionally uh because there is no constitutional authority to do so.

So these app I have uh approximately 11,000 criminal affidavits on behalf of victims that have been charged by way of information, not indictment in violation of the Constitution of the United States from right here from within the State of Indiana, and many are from within Marion County itself.

These appidators say identify two particular crimes.

The first is Title 18, USC subsection 242, which is deprivation of rights under color law.

What that statute states is that any person who, in a color of any state statute, ordinance, custom or regulation deprives any person of any rights secured by the constitution commits that crime.

The second is Title 18 USC subsection 2.1, which is conspiracy to deprive rights.

What that states is that when two or more persons conspire with the purpose of depriving any person of any rights secured by the Constitution commits that crime.

Now the law is a criminal conspiracy for public officials, states that any person who having knowledge of any of the wrongs conspired to be done and who have the power to prevent or aid in the prevention of commission of the same neglects or refuses to do so, may be joined to spend the action.

So upon having been provided with this notice informing you that your agents whom you pay are out violating the Constitution of the United States, I'd ask you, let's go ahead and fix this because the alternative is that I'm gonna have to start converting these criminal affidavits into criminal complaints.

I don't want to go down that path.

You don't want me to go down that path.

But we've been in contact with we've been in contact with the director of FBI, Cash Patel as well as also the ranking member of the Senate Judicial Oversight Committee.

They agree that when the Sheriff's Department, police department, law enforcement, when they fail to follow the constitutional obligations they have, they are subject to arrest.

Now I know that you're gonna go.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, sir.

Uh we want to call a couple more names, Ms.

Clerk.

Your name for the record, sir.

Mr.

Chairman, members of the committee, thank you.

My name is Martin DiAgostino.

I live in uh council district thirteen.

Uh I want to ask you to do something really hard tonight.

It's hard because um of your position in our political economy, and it's hard because we have competing principles involved here, not just competing interests.

But I want to ask you to use your power of the purse uh to reject the sheriff's proposed budget uh until and unless he commits to not being an agent, not being an instrument of the Trump administration's cruel regime.

Now it's going to be said that there's an executive order from the president, from the governor, that there's an opinion or a statement from uh attorney general rockita.

But you know, when the law is cruelly applied, when it's applied arbitrarily, capriciously, when it's used to instill fear to divide our communities, that mocks the idea of law.

That's not law.

Uh local government should not be an agent or an instrument of the federal government when it comes to immigration law.

So I'm saying do not acquiesce.

Say no, not yes, to this cruel regime.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, sir.

Ms.

Clerk, going to read three more names, please.

Corbin Haveifer, Larry Jones, and Audrey Jones.

Hello, uh, thank you, Mr.

Chair.

I'm Corbin Havener for District 9 in Indianapolis.

And I am here because this is a uh committee meeting on public safety.

And right now we have a lot of neighbors that are not safe.

They are not safe because they s whether or not uh, regardless of their language specific proficiency, they spoke a different native language than mine.

They have a slightly darker skin tone than mine, and they are not safe, and it doesn't matter what their immigration or legal status is.

They are not safe because of who they are, and we have seen this over and over again from the administration in Washington, DC.

We have seen this over and over again.

So now we have an elected official who with based on his comments has put absolutely zero thought or critical thinking into this.

It's just playing along.

And you know, quite frankly, we there is you know, there is discretion.

Um, there is discretion, and quite frankly, we have been reactionary to a lot of things.

We have been reactionary to an incident in the summer, despite uh years of declining crime rates in Marion County.

We were incredibly reactionary toward hammering down the curfew law as opposed to actually investing in our youth and giving them a place to give them a place to go, giving them a place to apply their talents.

We were quick to put the hammer down on our youth uh to ramp up the curfew law enforcement.

And right now, we're clearly not getting our payments due from the state from the federal government to house uh to house our to house inmates who clearly go against the values of the uh vast majority of voters in Marion County, by the way.

Um so I asked, so I asked that you take out the money from housing inmates and put it back into our youth because we need to put our money where our values are.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, sir, Ms.

Clerk.

Two more names.

Larry Jones, Audrey Jones, the next is Stuart Morell.

Audrey Larry Stewart.

Thank you.

Keep in the Jones, and I am reading a statement on behalf of Reverend Dr.

Clyde Posley, who is the state moderator for the Baptist Convention.

We had no problem finding the sheriff when he was trying to come to our churches while he campaigned along with many others within the Democratic Party.

We cannot be silent because excuse me, we cannot be silent about the issues and destruction that ICE is perpetrating, perpetrating in our major cities and right here at home.

I cannot be there tonight, but I 100% stand with you and you can say my name publicly.

So again, that is Reverend Dr.

Clyde Posley.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

Keep ending.

Stuart Mora, Anetra Jones, or Aaron Hobbes.

Good evening.

My name is Stuart Mora.

I've lived in Indianapolis since 2008.

My wife was born and raised here.

We live on the North Side in Councillor Boots' district, uh raising our family there.

Um I'm here this evening because I work at a law firm that does immigration and criminal defense work.

So I speak with detained immigrants and their families every day.

Most of our clients live and their families live right here in our city.

Because of the work that I do, I also am in the jail on a regular basis.

And I have good relationships with many of the sheriff's detention staff.

Lots of good professionals there.

I have nothing against Sheriff Forrestall personally.

In fact, I supported him as a precinct committee person and I voted for him.

However, this year I've been really disappointed.

I've been really frustrated.

You've shown a lack of leadership, Sheriff.

Not meeting with the community has left us guessing why does the sheriff continue this U.S.

Marshal Service contract, even though we all know you knew, I knew because I was taking the calls that the federal government increased their use of our facility for the detention of immigrants?

It sounds like tenfold.

Instead, uh I assure you, what we're currently seeing in immigration court is not what we would recognize as due process.

Many detainees being held for months without a scheduled court date, without a bond, without legal counsel.

Is that something we allow here in Marion County?

Because that's what we see with ICE detainees.

Often clients or often ICE detainees do not even have a basic understanding of the proceedings that they're facing or when those proceedings will move forward.

And Counselor Bain, I appreciate your question.

No, not all Dice detainees have a criminal record.

Sheriff Forrestall, we're asking you to cancel the U.S.

Marshal Service contract.

If you think that there's a legal question involved, why did you not address it with the OCC?

Why did you not meet with the community to have that conversation?

This is our community too.

This is our detention center.

We're asking you to cancel the U.S.

Marshall Service contract.

And if we need to have that fight with the AG, then let's have that fight together as a community for the sake of our own community.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, sir.

May I have your name for the record, please?

Yes, I'm Reverend Anetra Jones, senior pastor of Scott United Methodist Church in District 13.

Most of us in this city believe that no matter the color of our skin, the language we speak at home or the way we pray that everyone should feel safe and secure in our community.

Whether inside the walls of our homes, our school, or our workplace or place of worship, a true public safety system does not rip families apart.

It protects them.

It does not criminalize neighbors, it covers them.

Yet our sheriff has chosen a different path.

After repeated requests to meet with Live Free, he has ignored us.

After opportunities to listen, he has silenced us.

And while shutting his doors to tax paying law abiding citizens, he has opened the doors of our jail to ICE, detaining our loved ones, tearing family apart families apart, and then hiding behind laws that his own colleagues refuse to enforce.

And Sheriff, this is not leadership, it is cowardice, and it is not justice.

It is complicity with power, and it is the behavior of an oppressor.

The word of God is clear in Isaiah 10 that woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and to withhold justice from the oppressed.

And Jesus says in Matthew 25, whatever you do to the least of these, my brothers and sisters, you do unto me.

And so, Sheriff, when you harm immigrant families, when you deny due process, you do not just harm them, but you offend the God that created them.

And so we are here as witnesses today to say that we will not be ignored, that we will not allow injustice to continue, we will not be silenced, and you may evade accountability, but God's people will keep raising our voices until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream, because we believe that everyone belongs in Indiana, and we who believe in freedom and justice will not rest until it comes.

Yes, Aaron Hobbes, Brian Moore, and Jesse Brown.

Thank you.

Yes.

Good evening, Mr.

Chair and Committee members.

Uh, my name is Reverend Aaron Hobbes.

I'm the senior pastor of Broadway United Methodist Church located in District 8.

I'm also a member of the Indy Action Coalition.

In our movement, we often talk about helping people and not harming them while making sure our systems also match that intention.

The current practice of the jail, however, is only furthering harm inflicted upon already scared and vulnerable communities.

Legal advocates that are working with us have shared testimonies of those being detained.

Our jail does not offer any services to help people navigate language barriers.

ICE detainees are forced to stay in rooms with lights that are left on 24-7 with the intention of disrupting their physical and mental wellness.

And the sheriff's department staff are also not supporting detainees and obtaining necessary paperwork for immigration hearings, resulting in a backlog and negative outcomes in immigration court.

Due to Sheriff Forestall's inability or unwillingness to provide support and humane treatment of ICE detainees in the Marion County jail, the city council should demand that he continues discontinues his work with ICE immediately and refocuses his attention on Marion County and maintaining the safety and humane treatment of all who are in his office's care.

And then on a personal note, Sheriff Forstall, it is beyond disappointing that you have such low regard for your constituents that you refuse to meet with them because they might challenge you.

Keep Indy home.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Brian Moore.

I am a lifelong resident of Indianapolis and a community organizer.

The community's job, the committee's job is to advance policies and procedures.

My job is to ensure that our communities remain safe.

But the truth is our community isn't safer because we have separated families and individuals who are detained for simply working hard and making a living.

Deportation.

This deportation plan is not about safety.

But it's about control.

And it's inhumane.

Advancing this budget, advancing the sheriff's budget with the collaboration of ICE will not make us safer.

But only will incentivize the increasing caging of individuals.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening, fellow counselors.

Good evening, Chairman Robinson.

As you all well know, uh, my name is Jesse Brown.

I'm the district counselor for District 13.

I do not serve on this committee, but I was asked by my constituents to offer some public comment here tonight.

I thank the Sheriff's Office for communicating with me and sharing their perspective about the topics at hand this evening.

And honestly, I can understand that perspective.

And if I heard these arguments in the year 2019, I would find them persuasive.

However, my constituents have made it extremely clear, you've heard some of them already tonight, that they recognize the political reality that we're living in in September 2025.

Right now we are living through the biggest constitutional crisis in this country since the civil war.

Easily.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, Counselor.

Do you all agree in the Constitution?

Anna Thomas, Reverend Chauncey Brown, and Karen Byrd.

Anna Thomas, Reverend Chauncey Brown, and what was the other one?

Karen Byrd.

Thank you.

Ms.

Byrd.

I understand my name is Justice.

Ha ha, we're talking a lot about that.

My name is Justice Vaughan.

I'm a law student down at McKinney.

I'm a three.

Familiar with you, buddy.

Um the Fifth Amendment states no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

Have we all attended an English class?

Is this all our native language?

As far as I can see, up here at least.

I'm going to assume so.

It is not crazy to be able to understand that Fifth Amendment, something that we hold so dear in our hearts as Americans and as people who believe in the Constitution, I would hope.

The 14th Amendment states something very similar, which once again drives the point home that due process is integral to the American system.

Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, nor deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Either we are all illiterate up here, either we do not understand English, or we are choosing to be complicit in violating the U.S.

Constitution.

Which one is it?

We'll see your vote.

Hello, uh, my name is Karen Byrd.

I'm a resident of District 2, uh, here in Indianapolis.

Um, and I kind of wanted to point out something uh that I think goes under discussed a lot in these kinds of situations, and that is the cost to local law enforcement and local government when these ICE initiatives and and similar things um come to town.

Look at where we are right now, right?

I mean, the Sheriff's Department, like all law enforcement, depends on the trust of the public.

There's always gonna be tension, right, between law enforcement and the public.

You know, sometimes law enforcement does things that the public doesn't like.

They have to enforce rules that are sometimes unpopular, but in order for it to function, people have to have a base level of trust for local law enforcement, and these ICE agreements across the country have undermined that.

Look at where we are right now, right?

We have a sheriff who doesn't want to meet with his own constituents, with people who are in his community that he's serving because he fears being challenged on a directive that he feels has been handed down to him and that he has no choice but to obey.

And then we've got the public, who is now on the opposite side of a legal system that is supposed to be supporting them and ensuring their safety.

I've read the 287 G agreement, at least the part that's public, and you know what it says?

It says that all liabilities rest with the local law enforcement portion of the agreement of their upholding of it.

It says ICE is responsible for nothing, and if there is a dispute, ICE will be the one to adjudicate who is at fault.

This is a terrible idea, not only from you know a human rights standpoint, which the peep speakers before me have emphasized, but also from a political standpoint.

Because look who's here having to defend what ICE is doing and the results of the underfunding of our local jail, apparently, even with the money coming in from ICE.

It's you, it's the Sheriff's Department.

ICE is not here.

You're the ones that are gonna bear the political consequences.

So I'd really ask you to think about more long term the benefits of cooperating with this agreement.

And I'd really like to ask the sheriff to please please terminate it because 75 dollars a day just isn't enough for the results that you're seeing here.

Good evening, Chair, members of the public safety committee, and Sheriff Forrestall.

I'm Reverend Chauncey Brown, uh, resident of District 15 here in Indianapolis.

Bailey Lau, Magic Dooms, Richard Good, Carlos Hernandez, Nicholas Grant, and Frank Lambert.

These are those who lived and entered the land of the ancestors from the Marion County Adult Detention Center between 24 and 2025.

This is not public safety, this is a system in crisis.

And while lives are being lost, Sheriff Forrestall, we can no longer voluntarily continue this entanglement with justice or injustice, this entanglement with ICE.

Let's be clear, these are practices that are not mandated by law, but they are choices.

Choices to hold people longer without due processes, choices to turn neighbors over to ICE, choices that separate families and destabilize communities, choices that harm the fabric of Indianapolis.

We cannot leave lives up to loose interpretation of law.

This is why legacy matters.

Sheriff Forrestall, as you approach the end of your term, you face a defining decision.

Will your legacy be remembered for the overcrowding, the preventable deaths, and voluntary ice entanglements, or will it be remembered for your courage, the courage to stand up to the governor and end bad contracts, harmful practices, and protect human dignity.

And this committee too must face history.

Decades from now, the record will show line item by line item, or even partisan arguments.

It will show whether you had the courage to stop unnecessary deaths and unnecessary ice holds, or whether you stood silent while vulnerable lives were lost and families torn apart.

It is the Reverend Jesse Lewis Jackson Senior who says leadership has a harder job to do than just choose sides.

It must bring sides together.

That means choosing people over profit, justice over convenience, and dignity over detention.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, sir.

Your name for the record.

My name is Devontae Gilbert Bay.

I'm representative and Move T of the Morris Science Temple of America, America Temple Tien in Indianapolis, Indiana.

And also I'm a certified advanced practitioner through the Center of Mind Body Medicine.

And um I sat there, Sheriff, and I heard you talk about mental health within the uh the facility, right?

And as a person that's justice involved and been in these facilities, whether the county or in the actual DOC prison, it's a joke.

So everything I heard you say, these programs that you're saying you're implementing, these therapists, these counselors and stuff, they're not adequate.

They're not efficient, right?

And so you're saying that mental health matters in the community where you're tearing down a community by being involved with ice.

You're tearing families apart.

You're the reason why there's crime.

When families are being taken apart, men, women, whether it be aunties, uncles, fathers, mothers being ripped apart of their families, and kids don't have fathers and mothers or cousins or people that can raise them, where are they going to turn to?

Crime.

Murder, theft, robbery, selling drugs, right?

Right?

And now these officers right here now are in danger, could now protect the community from you.

Taking these people with their families.

When you have the power and the choice to not abide by it, you have the power.

So what are you gonna do?

Are you still gonna be the main person that's perpetrating and perpetuating all this stuff, all this chaos and confusion in your community?

Because you're taking the men and women out of the community.

You're taking them out.

Think about that.

You really need to think about that because you're saying, oh, this lore violence.

But you start in it.

I come in peace and I leave in love.

Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

Anyone else, Miss Clerk?

Um, the last two names I have that have not gone yet are Amy Gusman and Anna Thomas.

Amy and Anna, you want to come forward, please.

Hello, um, good evening.

I don't want to follow that speech because that was amazing.

Um my name is Amy Gusman.

I um am a lifelong resident of Indianapolis.

I am a certified nurse midwife with a specialty in perenatal mental health.

Uh as a naturalized citizen adopted from Columbia, South America with a Latino son, young adult.

I feel compelled to speak out regarding the general treatment and dehumanization of the undocumented immigrants here in this country and here in Indiana as a Latina.

The increased escalation of racial profiling, hunting brown and black people by masked men, often with no warrants, using aggressive tactics to meet quotas directly affects growing fears of myself, my family, and my Latino community in central Indiana.

My family and others have felt the need for renewed passports, paying extra for expediated for a passport card to carry in our wallets, as well as I have asked my son not to drive downtown when rumors of ice, being there and doing traffic blitz on the west side on the west side.

Intimidation has grown to the point that a traditional Latin event, La Plaza called La Fiesta, that we intend every year and I have danced at as a performer was canceled in our county.

Bringing people into our Marion County jail to be held for unknown amounts of time and facing inhumane treatment due to racial marginalization is not okay.

We cannot guarantee or no due to lack of transparency of those being held if they have access to lawyers, family members, or court dates, medical care, or protection of human rights.

I am here to call for an end of an association with a domestic terror group that ICE is, to end the contract with ICE from Marion County and to be on the right side of history and build trust to the immigrant community.

I call for a denouncement of the sheriff saying he is forced to work with the feds and to condemn fascist policies of working with ICE, who is recently funded as a small army to round up any anyone that looks like me and my family.

Thank you for your comments.

Hello, my name is Anna Thomas.

Um I just recently moved to District 6.

I've lived in Indy all of my adult life and have been in the health care provider scene, so it's been interesting.

Sheriff Forstall, with all due respect, we are your constituents.

We elected you to serve us and keep us safe, no exceptions.

But you're throwing our immigrant neighbors in jail and your cooperation with outside federal agencies doesn't make us safer, more secure, um, build trust or make for better law enforcement.

Um it's not a good use of the law enforcement time and energy to harass and threaten our neighbors just because of their country of origin, color of their skin, the language they speak, or the sound of their name.

Rounding up our neighbors for deportation does not keep us safer.

It's not fighting real crime or addressing the root causes of our public safety challenges.

So we asked the city council to not fund it or just break the contract, doing it because it's the law didn't hold up in Nuremberg.

So keep your hands off our neighbors and keep our families whole.

Keep Indy.

Thank you.

Ms.

Clerk, thank you for your comments, Bill Ms.

Clark.

Is that it?

That is everyone on the list.

Thanks so much.

Comments and question counselors.

Final comments.

Counselor uh Carlino.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, and thank you to everyone who came out tonight to speak.

Thank you for your presentation.

Um CFO Carr and Mr.

Sheriff, it's good to see you.

Um I was reading through the letters provided in our packet um that are letters to the various sheriff's departments from the Office of Attorney General, Todd Rokita.

And Mr.

Chairman, it feels like more fear mongering, more state threats.

Um to that, my two-word response, Mr.

Chairman, is let them.

Um we we should not be fearful.

Um, but now is the time to be brave.

And I think one of our colleagues, and maybe even a member of the audience, Mr.

Chairman, asked, what can we do?

And I believe it was last week in this very committee meeting, I begged this administration, um, not the sheriff, but but Mayor Hogsett, to um reinstate the immigrant legal defense funds that were cut, more than six figures from our operating budget and the Office of Public Health and Safety.

Um, and this is just a backdrop to the conversation that we're having tonight.

Um I think we need to not only reinstate those funds, but increase them given the climate that we're facing at this time.

And with that, I yield back, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you, Councilor.

Counselor uh Councilman Scary.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh, first of all, I agree with everything, everything everyone has said about what's going on.

Sheriff Farrestall is just doing his job.

He's under oath to do his job, and he would be violating the law.

But I you know you guys think I'm up here texting this or that, but I'm tell I was texting an attorney.

He said the council can cancel any federal contracts, and I will do what I can do with our council uh to do a proposal to stop the you know the the contracts of the federal government.

Thank you, Councillor.

Counselor Boots.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, thank you, Sheriff and CFO Carr for your presentation this evening.

Um I appreciate the pressure that the sheriff's office is under, particularly from the the state and the federal government.

But I also point out our attorney general is a lawyer that's been disciplined by the Indiana Supreme Court.

As a lawyer, I'll personally state that I have little respect for him and his legal mind.

And I would encourage the sheriff to uh explore the possibility and seek true legal opinion on the constitutionality of the agreement and what you're forced to do.

Um, because I I believe uh there is some leeway there, and uh in spite of all that, though, I would also encourage you to allow maybe the community to get more involved with improving the wraparound services or conditions under which these detainees are held in until and if we possibly get uh an opinion or the contract is canceled or what have you.

Um I've never I haven't been there personally, so I can't testify that their due process rights are being violated.

I've just heard I've heard the uh the stories and the and the rhetoric of what has been going on.

So to the extent we can improve that by allowing people in, or God forbid, if people are being woken up at three o'clock for breakfast, that doesn't sound reasonable to me.

Um if that is happening, I would suggest that be changed.

Um and finally, to the extent we can, and I know you are pardon the pun, your arms, your hands are somewhat handcuffed here, but to the extent we can push the state to pay its bills.

I mean, this is indicative of the oppression that the state puts on Marion County in Indianapolis when we've got their putting us in a corner and then not even paying their due bills.

Yeah.

So to the extent to the extent we can push that envelope.

I would encourage you to do that as well.

I know you're trying, I just uh to the extent we can help do that.

Um we're here to help in that regard.

So thank you, sir.

Counselor Boots, Counselor Perkins.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Um just a statement uh to wrap this up for me.

Uh Sheriff, um, a year and nine months ago uh when I was sorted into office, you extended an invitation for my colleagues and I to come and tour the Justice Center.

Um and when we showed up there in addition to the tour, um, your team shared with us the current um salary deficit that your staff was facing and the need for additional funding.

Um we made a commitment, I made a commitment that I did do all I could to support that.

Um and I think the budget last year uh and even this year reflects that.

You invited us to a meeting and we showed up.

It's interesting that a year and nine months later that the community is invited you to a meeting and you refuse to show up.

Let me name the elephant in the room that your term limited out.

And so you're not up for re-election.

It would be very different if you're up for re-election next year.

Our community still deserves for you to listen to them.

And so, as I supported last year to ensure that the budget that we saw last year and the budget proposal that we're seeing this year, and value the work of the Sheriff Department, I cannot with good conscience support you this year.

And it's not a reflection of how I feel about the hard-working men and women that work in the Sheriff Department.

It is a reflection of your poor leadership and your decision making, contrary to what the community is requiring of you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Thank you, Counselor.

Counselor Laney.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um my comments are gonna follow similar to counselor boots, and that I think we've identified a legal issue here and something that counselor McCormick also brought up, and that we've got um a community that believes that we don't need to hold them, and you've got a letter here from our attorney general that says that you do.

It's multiple pages of um a lot of rhetoric, I'll call it.

Um there is some quotation of Indiana code and law in there.

Um it's not all just chit-chat in this letter.

But I I would like to see some some further legal analysis and challenging the law on behalf of our community and and the values that we believe in.

Um if it comes down to it that we do need to hold these detainees, we need to be the best facility in the country for these detainees.

We need to provide them with the services that they need, the language interpretation.

I mean, I I don't know how far you can go because I'm I'm not I you know I I don't I'm not uh an employee of yours, but whatever we can do to make their say in the Marion County jail the best in the state, if not the best in the country, to provide them what they need to to get home.

Um I think that that's that's what we can do for them because I fear that if they're not here, they will be detained in another county.

And so if they're gonna have to be here in our brand new jail and in Marion County, then let's make it the best place that they can.

You know, we've got service providers that are here, um, and I think that there are ways that we can make this the best.

But let's start with let's challenge our attorney general.

He's he's mired in lots of legal um lawsuits, and and and let's let's look at that further.

So thank you.

Thank you, Council.

Council Graves.

Thanks, Mr.

Chair, and uh good seeing you, Sheriff and uh uh CFO carr.

It's good seeing you guys.

It was good seeing you last weekend.

Uh whoever said you aren't out in the community, they don't know because I saw you out in the community.

Uh but uh sheriff, I I do have some questions.

Um can you can you help me get a better picture of what's happening with the ICE detainees?

Is there anyone on site giving advocating for them?

Any I know as an employee at the Marion County Public Defender Agency, there was always someone that would go and talk to those that were arrested and give them that initial level of of advocacy, uh giving them the understanding of where they stand with their rights and what's gonna happen.

Is there anyone speaking to these individuals in an advocate role?

I'm the attorney, preferably an attorney.

I do know that ICE addresses them when they come in.

So they have no due process.

Wow.

Okay.

Well, Sheriff, I I what I'm understanding, and I really wish you would just kind of paint us a picture of what's happening in there because what I'm understanding is that that lack of due process is actually being perpetuated by your team because when they are uh in custody, they're not having access to their uh legal documentation.

Their uh language barriers are not being addressed.

In fact, if there's a language barrier, my understanding is that they are in solitary confinement, which is um for my understanding a punishment uh that is greater than the traditional punishment of even being in custody.

So from what I'm understanding is that we are treating these individuals in the worst possible way.

Can you tell us that that's not happening?

They're they're being treated better than what we're getting, uh the communication we're getting in the community.

That's correct.

They are being treated better better.

The statements, whoever put up those statements, it's false.

Uh we give them separate housing so that it's all similar.

Uh, when they're talking about the lights coming on, nobody's leaving on the lights to be any type of torture to make them any more uncomfortable.

If they're fed it early in the morning, some people have to leave or have to have court appearances, so we assure that they are there and fed before they leave for that day.

So those are the kind of steps that would if you look at it one way, you woke them up too early to feed them, but if you didn't feed them, they would be either leaving or going to a court hearing and not been able to be fed at that time.

Thanks, Mr.

Chair, if I can.

Um the 881 FTEs in uh 2026 character one represents an increase of 55 FTEs.

Is that any in any way attributed to this now 101 members uh uh of of taken out of our community by force and now in custody in your facility?

The decision to have that increase was not based upon them, but it does include them.

It also includes the 200 that the state leaves behind, does not take and does not pay us for.

So would you say that there's an additional burden on our taxpayers here in Marion County for their being detained?

Yes.

Well, I I'm here on behalf of the residents and the voters and the taxpayers in Marion County, and they have spoken, they have spoken tonight, they have spoken to me, they've spoken to my colleagues, and they don't want our facilities used as a tool for political pleeing and intimidation.

I want to make sure that that is the official answer that at least this counselor has.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Final comments from counselors.

Uh final comments from uh Mr.

Sheriff had a final comments today.

Appreciate everyone's time this evening.

Uh I know it's a difficult position to try and it's dividing the country, but I believe the law is being followed in the way it's directed in Indiana.

If we use an example in Illinois, it's totally different.

The governor over there has stole the sheriffs not to cooperate from what I understand.

Yeah, because with one exception.

With one exception, they followed the law.

From what I understand, the mayor of Chicago has signed on to not work with ICE when they if and when they come to the city.

Those are decisions can be made, but that's not upon the sheriff to make those decisions.

Thank you, Mr.

Sheriff.

Um appreciate you for your presentation.

And ladies and gentlemen, the early intervention planning council uh presentation will be continued uh till next week.

So um point of order, uh Mr.

Chair.

Council Hart.

I've got one item of business I'd like to discuss.

Mr.

Sheriff, we're finished though.

Thank you.

Appreciate you.

Ms.

Carr, we appreciate you as well.

Thank you.

Counselor Hart.

Thank you, uh Mr.

Chair.

Uh so I just brought uh an email that was sent to me shortly after our meeting last week uh where I was you know just describing folks that were reaching out to me, giving me ideas, and this was another one that came across my desk that I wanted to share with us as a committee on public counselor Hart Council Hart.

Yay Hold on, Counselor.

Hold on.

Hey, people are here.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Counselor Hart.

Yeah, so I just want to share this email and the background of the individual that was asking to come to speak in front of us and and uh pose a question to the committee.

But essentially, as you can see, uh a document in front of you.

Um I received an email from uh a community leader on the east side uh by the name of James Taylor.

Uh he's the director of student services over at the Moorhead Community Service Center for Warren Central Schools.

Uh phenomenal individual, and we've had conversations in the past, um, and he reminded me last week on August 29th that um he is struggling in in his role uh with truancy and the courts.

And seeing that we oversee the courts, very similar, like this evening I was oversee the uh the sheriff's office.

He asked if he could come and speak to our committee about the things that he is experiencing as his role as it pertains to truancy and how it pertains uh is connected to uh juvenile crime.

Um I think it would be a phenomenal opportunity for us as a committee to hear from uh Mr.

Taylor.

He is a very experienced uh individual uh with a ton of education and highly respect in the community.

Uh and I would just like to uh take any questions, but certainly you know, move to add Mr.

Taylor to the October 22nd meeting so we can hear what he has to say about the correlation between uh truancy and juvenile crime in Marion County.

Counselor Hart, you had uh sent me an email with this request.

I responded to the chair, and um I said he was not allowed to come to the committee.

I get seven to ten emails a week asking from individuals in the committee to come and speak to us about a variety of topics.

So often I get emails from individuals asking me to come to speak about a variety of topics on our agenda, off our agenda, and I've denied all those those requests I've been the chair.

So your request is no different uh than any other requests I get from individuals when they come and speak to the committee about topics they deem important, and uh I don't set that precedent to start doing that now.

And uh had sent to you an email responding to you that I don't want that gentleman to come before our committee to speak.

So um I I'm not quite sure if that is that a motion that he could do um Ms.

Pierce.

I'm I'm not sure I heard the motion itself.

There was a motion that was seconded uh to have a gentleman uh come speak before our committee to get on the agenda.

He he can ask for it, yes.

He could ask for a motion to do that, yes.

So as the chair, uh I can't determine that uh request because again I get these requests all the time.

Well it would yeah, we would have to be voted on the floor.

So I will say it again.

So there's been a motion on the floor to have a gentleman come before the committee to speak that counselor Hart had recommended again via email.

He sent me the request.

I denied the request, and uh on the floor now he's putting a motion on the floor to I guess overrule my request to have his individual come to the committee.

Uh again, committee members, I get requests all the time from individuals want to come before our committee to speak to us about a variety of topics.

And I've been the chair for a few years now, and I've denied all those requests because of then I want to focus on pertinent council city business and not have individuals come to speak on certain agenda items that they uh want to get before the committee.

So that's been my precedent.

I asked the committee members uh to stick with that.

Counselor Bain.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh I like what you said there about pertinent um information to the duties of the city county council.

I think overseeing the courts is a very important duty that we have.

So um I would just request that this vote be a roll call vote.

Thank you, Council Bay.

Again, we'll do the roll call vote at your request, but again, um the emails I get from individuals in the community you you can imagine I get from people, individuals like this very well-established gentleman from uh with Mr.

Hart recommended, these people are professionals, doctors, lawyers who want to come to speak to the committee about a topic they deem important.

And and I would say the far majority are very relevant.

They're not like they're off to they're not off topic, but again, I don't want to open that door that floodgates have individuals who think that this is the time for them to speak to us about a topic that they are that they are feeling important to them.

So again, I would ask the committee members to uh to reject that motion.

Counselor Annay.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman, and and uh you know I I can't imagine how many uh requests that that any chairman or chairwoman of a committee receives during a calendar year, particularly in the public safety and criminal justice committee.

I would I would thank you.

I would certainly assume that that would be the case.

Um but I understand when individuals go to the chair and request time in in uh the committee that that oftentimes that probably can't be granted.

But when a counselor of the committee has an agenda, but but Mr.

Chairman, this is my time.

This might be your committee, but this is my time.

I'd like to finish it without being interrupted.

I haven't interrupted you one time, I don't think this year.

I'd appreciate if I could finish my thought.

But I I just want to make the point that if a counselor uh brings a person to you, and and I'm not even necessarily specifically referencing this gentleman because I just got it on my desk this evening.

I don't know anything about it other than what counselor Hart said moments ago.

I would just hope in the future greater deference is given to district counselors if they offer you somebody to bring to a committee that a counselor requesting somebody would have a greater uh uh consideration from the chair than maybe just a random person who ends up in your inbox.

That's simply all I'm requesting in the future.

Thank you, Councillor Anna, for your comments.

Counselor Boots Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

I share the concern over truancy in what the court is doing.

I I disagree though with the option of anybody that has a cause can just come before our committee.

I would like to see more information on this and and maybe a statement by him, maybe some evidence of the true extent of the problem, what are other counties doing, what are we doing, and if it in my opinion is such a system is so deficient that it warrants a further discussion, I'd co-sponsor such a motion.

Thank you, Counselor Counselor uh Delaney.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Um I am interested in what he has to say, Councillor Hart, but I will be voting against having him come speak at our committee.

We just recently this year passed our ordinance to limit or rules to limit proclamations at the beginning of meetings because it started to get out of hand with so many things going on, and I fear that with however 15 members of our committee, if we would never get through meetings if each one of us any time we had a group come to us wanted to present something, as a parliamentarian of another organization.

I firmly believe that we should you should bring something to us in the format of like an ordinance, which you've done a few times in the last month, um, and have him come speak on the ordinance as to why it's important to change the laws as opposed to just coming and talking on policy.

I think personally that would be the more important and better way and format to come to us.

However, I'm happy to meet with him behind the scenes.

I do want to learn more, like Dean said.

I think um I also would want to hear from the prosecutor in the courts on this issue.

So thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Thank you, Councillor Council McCormick.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Sort of echo my left and my right here um with kids that are in school and with those I understand what true and see is right.

So uh but like I'm thinking I sit on the education committee as well, and so I'm thinking there's some conversations that can happen before we would come to a the public meeting.

Um the superintendents meet month monthly, and so I think hearing what all of the superintendents have to say, right?

Getting that group consensus, getting some more information, because I think there is I think I I can see that there can be correlation and and inform right in these and what would be the best route forward, and I think there's more information and good information to hear, partially not during budget season, but then also uh I think there's some background work that we can do.

So here for the conversation in a little bit when we have more.

Thank you, Councilman Cormick.

Counselor Perkins.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Uh, two things.

Uh one, I I I echo exactly what you said I share with uh my colleague earlier before the meeting uh that we have made space in the education committee for the superintendents from across all of the the school districts to come in and share with us, and there was you know we we afforded that opportunity.

I think that's a good space for it instead of coming to this committee.

Um may I call for the question?

There's been a motion to call for the question, so we'll do that vote and then uh we can do the uh roll call vote of uh counselor heart's miss second.

Ms.

Clerk, you want to do a uh roll call vote of the call to question, has been seconded absolutely councilor Robinson.

Uh yes, to this again.

This is the yes to call for the question.

Yes, Council Robinson, yes.

Thank you, Mascary.

Yes, yes, Graves, yes.

Carlina I really wanted to make a comment, but yes.

Counselor Maori.

Yes.

Counselor Boots, Boots, yes, Councilor McCormick.

Yes.

Counselor Delaney, yes.

Counselor Perkins?

Perkins, yes.

Counselor Arn?

Counselor Bain.

No.

And Counselor Hart.

No.

Sorry, uh, one moment, please.

Um I meant to say no, so please mark me on for no.

Thank you.

I got it.

Thank you, Ms.

Clerk.

Uh the the vote to count to call the questions has been has been uh approved and supported.

We'll do another roll call ver a clo a vote, Ms.

Clerk, when you're ready on the uh motion to add the gentleman to our calendar uh in a few weeks.

The motion was probably seconded, and Councilman requested another roll call vote, so you can start the roll for roll call vote on that one as well.

Thank you, Councilor Robinson.

Uh no councillor Mascarry.

Mascarry, no, but he ought to try again in January.

Counselor Graves.

Grace, no.

Counselor Carlino.

Carlino, no.

Councilor Maori.

This is the one I want yes for.

Thank you.

Counselor Boots.

Uh legitimate question, good issue.

We need to look at it, but no for now.

Counselor McCormick?

Uh McCormick, no at this time.

Councillor Delaney.

No.

Counselor Perkins.

Perkins, no.

Councilor Arn.

Yes.

Counselor Bain.

Since we went several months without a public safety committee meeting this summer, yes.

And Councillor Hart.

Thank you, Ms.

Clerk.

The uh the motion fails.

We are adjourned.

Have a good night.