August 20th, 2025 meeting of the Metropolitan Development Commission will now come to order.

I would appreciate it if everybody would stand and join me with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Thank you.

As we move forward, as we do in all MDC meetings, we expect professional decorum at all times.

And if there's not professional decorum, I will point that out immediately.

Going forward, members of the Commission.

You have received the minutes.

Last week from the August 6th meeting.

Are there any additions or deletions to those minutes?

Hearing none.

Commissioner Morerity and Commissioner Robinson, you need to recuse yourself as you were not present.

Can I get a motion from Commissioner Garver to approve?

So move.

Commissioner Hergett, can I get a second?

Second.

Let me call the roll.

Garver.

Garver, yes.

Hergett.

Hergitt, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

Dylan is a yes.

They pass 7 to 0.

Moving forward.

Are there any requests for continuances, withdrawals, or special requests?

Kathleen.

President Dylan, members of the Commission staff would draw your attention to item number 11 on the docket.

It's 2025 ZON019 located at 1404 Prospect Street.

The petitioner has submitted a letter of withdrawal, and this would just require your acknowledgement.

Kathleen, so acknowledge the withdrawal.

Thank you.

Are there any other continued special requests?

Mr.

Toy.

Mr.

President, members of the council, Brian Twee, uh, my address is 9294 North Meridian.

Uh number 19 on your agenda, which is 2025 Z O N 046 110 and 10440 Pentacross Road.

We would respectfully request a continuance for two weeks.

We've been engaged in some back and forth discussions with the Franklin Township Civic League about the commitments that would be attached to this rezoning.

And I spoke with the President Kathy Burton yesterday.

She agreed to a two-week continuance.

I have an email to that effect.

I've also talked to Kathleen Blackham about it, and we'll be ready to hear this case in two weeks.

But uh this will give us a legal.

That's the September 3rd meeting, Mr.

Twee.

Yes, sir.

Kathleen, you have any comments?

Uh thank you, President Dillon.

Staff is in agreement with the continuance and would have no further comments.

Thank you.

Is there anybody else here today present who have a comment on this continuance?

Seeing none.

We have a request for 2025 ZON 046 to be moved to the September 3rd meeting.

Commissioner Murphy, can I get a motion to approve?

So moved.

Commissioner Morerity, can I get a second?

Second.

Let me call the roll.

Garver.

Garver, yes.

Hergitt.

Hergitt, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Morerity.

Mority, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

Dylan is a yes.

Mr.

Tuay, you have a nine-zero vote to go to September 3rd.

Look forward to seeing you then.

Thank you.

Have good afternoon.

Any additional continuances, withdrawal, special request.

Jenny.

Good afternoon, President Dillon and members of the Commission.

My name is Jenny Foltz.

I'm a deputy director for the Department of Metropolitan Development.

Um, I'm asking for resolution 2025 A028 to be continued until September 3rd.

Jenny, where is that on our agenda, please?

It's number two.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Jenny.

Um, yes, we're continuing to work with the company and negotiating the MOA for this um abatement.

Thank you.

Questions from members of the commission?

Is there anybody else here today who'd like to comment on the continuance request for 2025 A028?

Seeing none.

Commissioner Hergett, can I get a motion to move 2025 028 to September 3rd?

So moved.

Commissioner Lyle, can I get a second?

Second.

Let me call the roll.

Garver.

Garver, yes.

Hergett.

Lyle, yes.

More erity.

Moreity, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

Dylan is a yes.

Jenny will see you September 3rd by vote of 9 to 0.

Any other resolutions?

Special requests, withdrawals.

Seeing none.

Nancy, can you read the resolutions into the minutes?

Thank you, President Dillon and Commissioners.

2025 R031 authorizes DMD to convey title of property at 2240 Enterprise Park Place.

Parcel number 1104957 to Fields Mortuary Transport and Removal Services LLC for the purpose of redevelopment.

2025 A029 for our public hearing.

Final economic revitalization area resolution for Roach Diagnostics Operations Incorporated, located at 9115 Hague Road, Council District 4, Lawrence Township.

Recommend approval of 10 years real property tax abatement.

2025A030 for our public hearing.

Final economic revitalization area resolution for Roach Diagnostics Operation Incorporated located at 9115 Hague Road.

Preliminary economic revitalization area resolution for Rome U.S.

Incorporated located at 8517 West Washington Street, Council District 17, Wayne Township.

Recommend approval of five years personal property tax abatement.

2025 A032.

Preliminary economic revitalization area resolution for Deep Metal Ventures LLC located at 3043 South Post Road.

Recommend approval of 10 years real property tax abatement.

Authorizes DMD to pay invoices for previously rendered and approved development services.

Authorizes DMD to amend a contract with town planning and urban design collaborative LLC for professional services to extend the term through 1231 2026 and revise the scope of services and fee schedule.

This ends the reading of the resolutions.

Thank you, Nancy.

We have five policy resolutions that do not stand for public hearing today.

2025 R031, 2025 A031, 2025 A032, 2025 E024, 2025 P010.

Commissioner West, can I get a motion to approve those five policy resolutions?

So moved.

Thank you.

Commissioner Robinson, can I get a second?

Second.

Let me call the roll.

Garver.

Garver, yes.

Hergett.

Hergitt, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Morerity.

Mority, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

Dillon is a yes.

They all pass 920 for members of the audience today for your clarification.

2025 A032, which is the introduction primary resolution for the Google project.

Is just being introduced today, and then it will be set for a public hearing.

Eddie helped me.

That will be either on the third or the 17th, or Jenny, third or the 17th, which is it.

Is it set for a date?

Yes, President Delane.

Again, Jenny Fultz, Deputy Director for Department of Metropolitan Development, October 1st would be the date.

October 1st will be the public hearing on the economic development piece of the Google project.

I just want to make sure we're clear on the record.

Thank you.

Moving forward.

We have two public hearings for us today on our resolution.

Resolutions.

The first one is 2025 A029.

Final economic revitalization area revitalization area resolution for Roach Diagnostics Operation Inc.

located at 9115 Haig Road Council District No.

4, Lawrence Township.

Recommended approval of 10 years real property tax abatement.

Staff comments.

Good afternoon, President Dillon.

Commissioners.

So I do want to make note that on August 11th, there was a unanimous vote by the city council city county council to approve the statement of benefits.

Roche will be investing $145 million in real property.

And then they will be submitting five percent of their tax savings will go towards the India Chiefs grant as well as the apprenticeship program.

Staff is recommending approval of resolution 2025 A029 for 10 years real property tax abatement.

Thank you, Kathy.

Questions from members of the commission for Kathy.

Is there anyone else here today who would like to ask a question on 2025 A029?

Yes, sir.

Please come to the podium.

I'm sorry.

You need a sir.

You need uh name and address, and you'll be sworn in, please.

Name and address.

Sir, my name is Spencer Andrews, uh 10352, North 400 West, Fallentown, Indiana.

Nancy, please swear Dylan.

Please raise your right hand.

Do you swear affirmative penalties of perjury?

You tell the truth and nothing but the truth.

Say I do.

I do.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for the time.

Um Spencer, are you for or against this resolution?

I'm against it.

Okay, please uh go ahead.

Um thank you, President Dylan.

President Dillon.

Um I think I stand for a lot of people in this room that any corporation wanting to expand business within our state needs to pay property taxes and should not have a 10-year tax abatement.

I think that's a discredit to all of all residential homeowners and real property tax payers within the state.

And I think you guys should please respectfully um consider this when you're moving forward.

I understand that a company like Roche has a lot of power uh within the state, and they do bring a lot of jobs, but we need to think about the residents in this community.

And I live probably 20 minutes from Roche.

Um, and I think it's appalling that they would not pay their fair share when they are going to do a $550 million expansion within the state.

Spencer, thank you for being here.

Appreciate your comments.

Thank you so much.

Members of the commission.

Any questions for Kathy?

Is there anyone else here today who would like to comment on this?

Seeing none, we'll move forward.

Commissioner Garber, we have before us 2025 A29.

Can I get a motion to approve?

So moved.

Thank you.

Commissioner Hergett, can I get a second?

Second.

Let me call the roll.

Garver.

Garver, yes.

Hergett, yes.

Lyle, Lyle, yes.

Morerity.

More, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

2025 or Dylan is a yes.

2025 A029 passes 920.

That takes us to 2025 A030.

Kathy.

Yes, again, President Dylan and Commissioners.

Um, Rush will be investing 405 million in personal property at this location.

Staff is recommending approval of 10 years personal property tax abatement, um, which is resolution 2025 A030.

Members of the commission, any questions for staff for Kathy on 2025 A030.

Seeing is there anyone else here today who would like to comment.

Seeing none, I'll call for a vote.

Commissioner Schumacher, can I get a motion to approve?

So moved.

Commissioner West, can I get a second?

Second.

Let me call the roll.

Garver.

Garver, yes.

Hergett.

Hergett, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Morti.

Morrearty, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

Dylan is a yes.

2025 A030 passes 920.

Nancy, can you read into the record the petitions of no appeal yes?

Yes.

Thank you, President Dylan and Commissioners.

Petitions of no appeal recommended for approval by the hearing examiners.

2025 APP007.

6451 East Thompson Road, Franklin Township Council District 24.

2025 MOD 008 7436 Rockville Road, Wayne Township, Council District 16.

2025 ZON 019 1404 Prospect Street Center Township Council District 18.

Excuse me.

Excuse me.

Number 11, item agenda number 11 was withdrawn.

That's right, sir.

I'm sorry.

It is so fun for me to be able to catch you since you always catch me.

I have it crossed out in everything.

I read right over it.

Thank you, sir.

I stopped myself.

2025 ZON065 5034 Lafayette Road Pike Township Council District 6.

2025 ZON 070 at 631 South High School Road, Wayne Township, Council District 17.

2025 ZON 072 2027 Spruce Street Center Township Council District 19.

2025 ZON 073 5720 South Walcott Street Center Township Council District 23 and lastly 2025 ZON 076 at 6568 Cornell Avenue Washington Township Council District 17.

This is the reading of the no appeal stock.

Thank you.

We have before us seven petitions of no appeal that I'll take as a whole 2025 APP007 2025 MOD 008 2025 Z O N O six five 2025 Z O N O seven O 2025 Z O N O seven 2025 Z O N 073 2025 Z O N6 Let's take the 7 together Commissioner Murphy can I get a motion to approve?

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Robinson.

Can I get a second?

Second.

I'll call the roll.

Garver.

Garver, yes.

Hergett.

Hergett, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

More erity.

Mority, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

Dylan is a yes.

The petitions of no appeal pass 920.

That leads us to our first public hearing.

Nancy, would you please read it into the record?

Thank you again, uh, President Dylan and Commissioners.

Our first public hearings are for companion petitions recommended for approval by the hearing examiner.

Appeal filed by remonstrator.

2025 CZN 814 2025 C VR 814.

3043 3451 3511 and 3801 South Post Road.

9405 9609, 9611, 9931 East Troy Avenue, 3430, 3440, and 3610 Davis Road and 9500 Vandergriff Road.

Franklin Township, Council District 20, Deep Metals Ventures LLC by Joseph D.

Cauldron, requesting rezoning of 467.66 acres from the DA FF, FW, C4, FFW, and SU 43 FFW districts to the CSFW district for a data center campus development, and uses including light manufacturing, all research and development, utilities, agricultural uses, buildings and structures as permitted in I-1, and office uses as permitted in C1.

Permitted accessory uses would include utility structures such as power substations, water towers, and overhead and underground power lines and wastewater treatment facilities, outdoor storage, renewable energy facility, satellite dish antenna, signs and temporary construction yard, office or equipment storage.

Also requesting a variance of development standards of the consolidated zoning and subdivision ordinance to provide for a building height of 75 feet, maximum 38-foot building height permitted, and no maximum front yard setbacks, maximum front yard setback of 85 feet permitted.

Well, all those intending to testify on these petitions this afternoon.

I need you to stand now to identify yourselves to be sworn in.

Anyone that's going to speak must be sworn in if you're going to speak.

Please raise your right hands.

Say I do.

I do.

Thank you.

Nancy, is everybody signed in to testify?

I am not sure of because I don't know who's just stood up.

So we'll we'll see what happens here.

Thank you.

If you haven't signed in and you are you just sworn in, you need to come forward now and sign a sign in sheet.

Let me walk through the rules of engagement as we move forward.

We will give the petitioner Google 15 minutes to present their case, and then we will ask them questions from the commission.

Then I'm going to go to Captain Julie Goldsburg Goldsbury representing the lead for remonstrators.

And Julie knows her team has 15 minutes.

Counselor Hart, where are you at?

Over here to come forward and give your testimony.

I'll then go to staff for their testimony.

And we may ask questions to any uh entity or individual that is testifying as we go forward.

We're on a strict clock.

We will stick to the strict clock.

Councillor go.

Thank you, and good afternoon, President Dillon, members of the commission, uh Joe Calderan, 11 South Meridian, Indianapolis, Indiana, representing uh the petitioner, Deep Meta Ventures LLC, which is uh an entity owned and created by Google Inc.

to develop the subject property.

Can you repeat that one more time?

Council.

Deep Meadow Ventures LLC is an entity created by and for Google Inc.

It's owned by Google Inc.

And that is ultimately the entity that will be uh responsible for developing and operating uh the proposed uh data center.

Now we can have a hearing.

Go.

Well, thank you.

Uh each of you should have a hard copy of the PowerPoint that I'll run through as well as the commitments that uh have been uh we've been working on.

We were asked overnight last night to remove one commitment, so instead of 35, we have 34.

The removal was actually by the Franklin Township Civic League, not by my client, so we're not taking away anything that we promised.

Uh and then finally, you will have an 11 by 17 of a site plan, which shows up in the PowerPoint.

The only difference is that uh through the course of our negotiations, uh there was proposed a temporary construction uh entrance off of Davis Road, which is to the east, uh, or the far east side of the project site.

Uh we eliminated that, and uh both construction and then permanent uh site access will be off of Post Road.

That's really the only difference.

So I've had the great fortune over many years to have uh worked with Franklin Township Civic League and uh represent various clients in Franklin Township.

Uh a significant majority of those clients have proposed residential development.

Uh I can't tell you how many times, and I'm sure you can hear this from other land use attorneys as well.

Franklin Township has said we need to diversify our tax base, we need commercial, we need industrial development.

With respect to this particular site, about 10 years ago, I represented what was then an entity that was not disclosed, but it was Pepsi who wanted to locate a bottling and distribution facility on a portion of this site.

Ultimately, we had to withdraw that petition because of traffic and truck traffic in particular.

So this petition, which is a CS zoning, provides the benefit of not allowing for warehousing and distribution as an alternative use in the future.

It takes away that issue of heavy truck uh traffic uh coming in and out of the site in any great quantity.

Uh back to the petition at hand.

Uh, those of you who may not know what a data center is, it is simply a facility, they're industrial uh in nature, they hold and process uh and store information that we all use every time we take pictures and upload photos, emails, YouTube videos, etc.

It's simply that.

Uh while there is an employment uh presence, uh these are not highly trafficked uses, uh, and they do have a great purpose for developing our economy of the future as we are all relying upon advancements in technology to move forward with our daily lives, whether it's our personal life or professional life.

Google in particular works uh throughout the United States with data centers and data center campuses, which typically are more uh than one building.

Uh this particular site has room for up to four buildings, uh and that these data centers operate uh 24-7 to uh work and be able to accommodate searches, YouTube videos, etc.

A couple of pictures of the New Albany, Ohio data center campus.

Does not look that much different from uh any typical industrial uh style development.

This shows at night you can see that even though you can see the lights, it's not spilling beyond the property lines.

That'll be the case here.

And this is an example of uh the office building that will be uh prototypical for every data center campus.

So there is a uh a building for office uh type use to support the data centers, etc.

These are uh low-intensity attractive offices uh that will uh also be uh in place at this location.

And then taking a peek inside, this is what a typical data center building looks like, lots and lots of servers, etc.

Very clean operation, but that's uh what's on the inside.

So why this location?

Um the comprehensive plan calls for a significant majority of the site to be either in light industrial use or office industrial mixed use.

So we're we believe we're in compliance with the comprehensive plan, which is the first uh piece of the puzzle, and one of the reasons why we brought this to staff uh very early, even before filing.

Secondly, within the comprehensive plan, this is in a critical area, which in fact calls for the site to be developed as an integrated center, meaning something that's coordinated, not scattered with multiple uses.

I know we've gotten pushback over the size of the site, it's 467 acres, it's a lot of acreage.

However, the benefit is is that, and you will see this, we have controlled access mostly off of post road.

We do have a reserved emergency access off of Vandergriff if needed by the city, and that helps coordinate the traffic in and out of the site.

So we're right in line with what the critical area calls.

There is also mention that development to the north, east, or south shall include a landscape buffer.

This is right from the comp plan.

We've got a hundred and fifty feet of landscape buffer surrounding this site with enhanced setbacks beyond that.

Third uh point is that this site has the capability to be served by the utilities that are necessary for the desired use, which is the data center use.

This there's a uh portion of the site zoned SU 43 that represents uh existing AES power lines uh working with AES, this site was uh recommended as a potential site for a data center.

Uh plus there is significant acreage to allow the center uh the campus to develop with more than one building.

We've done all kinds of due diligence.

We've done a traffic study that has been reviewed and accepted by the city of Indianapolis.

Uh there is uh two level of service failures, uh both of which are off site.

Uh one at Atlantis Drive where the Wendy's is south, um, and there is a pinch point at the ramp uh from 74 at 74 and post.

We have put in our commitments, every recommendation that traffic study has to help mitigate and make sure the levels of service uh will be met to the satisfaction of DPW.

We've done, and we have our engineer Todd Cunningham with EMHT here today.

We've uh done uh due diligence regarding landscaping, tree inventory and preservation, drainage, uh, environmental, and then we've also uh wanted to let you know, in addition to the typical uh lights and and uh other required standards.

One standard that's not really set forth in the zoning code, but that uh should be important and came up is how do we coordinate with the Franklin Township with IFD uh with respect to fire.

We have our own on-site fire suppression system that has its own tank.

So while the fire department uh service would be appreciated and we will certainly coordinate with them for any responses.

We have our own tank that will be in operation and available 24-7 to help mitigate any concerns about uh fire danger.

Uh this site is largely zoned, dwelling agricultural.

There is some C4 to the uh on the west side off of Post Road behind the uh smattering of existing commercial.

DA is the holding place for what is to become.

So it's going to be zoned for something.

Uh and then there is the power lines, which are SU 43.

Our proposed rezoning goes to well, here's the comp plan map that shows the uh light industrial office industrial mixed use.

Uh there is some residential proposed on the far east side.

Uh note that we are actually uh a significant amount of that acreage that's planned for uh neighborhood uses buffer area within our project.

Uh but note even on the comp plan that there's an immediate transition from that use to office industrial mixed use or light industrial.

So what we're proposing is very consistent, we think, with the comprehensive plan.

CS zoning is appropriate for this site because it allows us to create a site plan-based zoning.

Uh and if you look at the 11 by 17 map, you can see that we have everything that's north of the Fitcher ditch that runs uh in an east-west direction throughout the north north side of the site is going to be undeveloped.

That will be what we call the no-build area.

That is a uh specific concession that we made uh to the neighbors, uh particularly those on Troy Avenue.

So being able to have a CS and and create our own standards in that way is very important.

It also allows us to uh get creative in terms of uses that are appropriate or inappropriate.

Example, if we had asked you for I1 zoning, it would have allowed more housing distribution.

Uh in this case, when we're doing the CS, we took that out of the equation.

We further uh coordinated the CS with your uh professional planning staff.

So here's the matrix of CS standards.

We exceed every single standard that there is.

Um we do have a uh max building height, it's not 70 feet by commitment.

We've reduced that to either 50 feet plus appurtenances or 60 feet plus appurtenances, depending on the proximity uh to the neighborhoods uh that are residential to the east and south.

So uh we believe that by using CS and exceeding the standards with NCS that we're providing you with uh an excellent plan.

Just to give you an idea, here's the buffer area uh completely surrounding the property.

In addition to that, the building setback is 200 minimum of 200 feet.

That's a hundred and fifty-five uh foot wide buffer.

Here's what that looks like existing conditions, future conditions.

These are some shots of the existing parameter of the property.

So you can see there's great care to be taken, and you can see in the future conditions that the emphasis is not on building, but rather creating a campus that can blend in to the surrounding neighborhoods.

We have negotiated multiple commitments over many, many months.

Uh, and we engage with Franklin Township Civic League at least three times uh in addition to emails, phone calls, etc.

negotiating commitments.

We've been meeting with planning staff and uh other departments in the greenways, DPW, etc.

Come up with a plan and commitments that are supported by your staff by those other departments that will provide real public benefits, including multi-use paths uh at no cost uh to the city and protecting in full uh the Fisher Ditch, we're not asking for any variants of stream corridor or anything like that.

The secondary ditch, uh Miller Ditch of the South will also be respected that way.

Even though Councillor Hart is not on board, we have engaged with Councillor Hart, Counselors Mowery, Senator Freeman of that jurisdiction.

So very briefly, just to give you an idea about our commitments.

Um we started right when we filed, we had eight commitments that it uh dealt with right away, noise limitations, uh building height limitations, uh, water and sewer uh we reached your time.

Okay, thank you.

And we appreciate your uh time this evening and like to incorporate our findings of fact for the variants, and happy to answer any questions you have.

Thank you.

Members of the commission questions for petitioner, both council and his uh engineer, Joe, come on back up.

President Dillon, I have a question.

Go ahead, Commissioner Murphy.

Counselor on the uh updated site plan shows four buildings.

Which of those is building one chronologically that you plan to build?

I'll let Mr.

Cunningham answer that, sir.

Uh Todd Cunningham with EMHT 5500 New Albany Road, uh, Columbus, Ohio.

President Dillon Commissioners, thank you for hearing us this afternoon.

Um, the current plan would be for the building furthest to the east to be developed first.

Thank you.

Additional questions for petitioner shoot.

Yeah.

In the some of these things you go ahead, Greg.

Go ahead.

Commissioner West, go ahead.

Thank you.

The future condition drawings are certainly very attractive.

Was there an attempt in those drawings to show the scaled buildings?

Are they are they absent from the drawing or are they concealed?

The buildings are concealed.

The building elevations within the renderings are representative of what we're asking for in the commitments.

Thank you.

Commissioner Schumacher.

Google has done these in in other cities.

What have they learned along the way to make them better at coexisting with residents?

Well, the biggest uh uh lesson, uh, Mr.

Schumacher is the fact that they have uh really gotten to understand the value of uh significant uh setback and then mounding is part of their landscaping.

Now I just have been representing them on this particular project.

Um so, but I've heard that, and we've proposed like a minimum 10-foot mound with landscaping on top, which is unheard of.

So they've learned that lesson not only to provide some visual relief from the neighborhood, but it also provides as a sound mitigator as well, which are always two concerns that neighbors have any time there's a project of this kind of nature, whether it's status center or other industrial, it's the buffering and the mounding.

So typically you'd find a mound of six feet at the highest with landscaping.

We're at least 10.

There could be room up to 15 feet uh for this one.

That's because we've got 155 wood uh foot uh wide buffer area.

So that's probably the biggest thing, and then there are other technological advances to try to address any of the other uh type of concerns uh that neighbors might have, whether it be lights or noise, etc.

Thank you.

I'm gonna go to Commissioner Lyle and I'll come back to you.

Commissioner Lyle.

So in the near term, should this be approved?

Uh, what's a plan to address the construction traffic throughout those years of development?

So in coordinating the scope of the traffic study with DPW, we the traffic study includes considerations for construction traffic.

So the commitments that Joe referenced are inclusive of anything that is needed to accommodate the construction traffic as well.

Uh to further clarify what what's happened through uh negotiations with the neighbors, we've eliminated construction traffic as an entrance point off of Davis Road, which is uh admittedly a little more residential.

Everything's coming in off of post.

There will be um a staging area that will be utilized.

We've got plenty of acreage uh to use for staging, so the construction traffic will not be significantly adverse to existing traffic patterns.

There was a suggestion from NDOT to try to coordinate uh delivery uh of materials off peak.

Uh we just literally got that this morning, so we will continue to work with DPW and uh NDOT to make sure that we are funneling in workers and materials in a responsible uh fashion.

But we do have plenty of room to stage, so it's not like just in time delivery for every single thing that's gonna be uh erected on the property.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Commissioner Lyle, you good?

Yes, sir.

Commissioner West.

Yes, thank you.

I had a concern about groundwater, but you've pointed out in your presentation here in writing that you're uh coordinating with citizens energy to make sure that there's enough water uh supplied for the project so there won't be any impact, so that's good.

I have another question, if I might about the visual impact.

Um your building in New Albany, Ohio here is just beautiful.

What do you offer in the way of um rendering, whether or not it's in the commitments, or are there any ideas toward the appearance from post-road, the main entrance so the photos um in the packet today are representative of what Google intends to develop at this site?

Um we don't have a specific commitment around those, but that is their um latest architecture and implementation of uh aesthetic standards.

So you saw the office building piece with its very nice front.

Now that is interior to campus, so it's not like that's going to be at the front door where everybody can see it, but um again the point is to try to treat the buildings appropriately and be a project that you don't know it's there, and you may not even have hardly any, if any, signage on the main entrance.

Um they aren't trying to advertise these locations as a high profile um site.

Also, if it's the commission's pleasure, we would certainly uh be open to adding a commitment to tender final um elevation landscaping and site plans for administrative approval through your staff if that is something that would be of interest.

It certainly is.

Thank you.

We'll accept that commitment.

Thank you.

Commissioner Morerdi.

Question I have regards fire safety and preparations.

And I think you covered a lot of this in your talk about building your own reservoir tank.

Would in the future, if I FT needs it, can they draw on that for surrounding area protection?

The system we develop on site is just for that sole purpose of that site system.

Um part of it has to do with the operation of it and the security of the campus, that it's difficult to interconnect something like that to the public infrastructure.

So the system we develop on site is very specific to the design of the buildings and what's going in on the project.

And throughout the design process, we're at the point in our uh with the rezoning and all these things coming together that we're ready to set down with IFD, have the conversations we need to about detailed design, coordinating building access, showing them example plans of what's going to go on in here so they understand the project.

We just haven't gotten to that point yet.

We might also add that uh in one of our commitments, we have committed to take our public uh utility lines through the site to the property line, so where there might be well in septic uh today.

Uh we will drag our lines through to Davis Road, for example, or Troy for those to be able to connect, which also could include fire hydrants for additional uh IFD um availability.

Commissioner Schumacher.

Data centers are heavy users of of water and electricity.

Talk a little bit deeper about the commitments you have to make sure that there's enough of that, not only for the data center and but how it may impact surrounding residents.

You can start.

I'm gonna point to a commitment.

Go ahead and okay.

So the first so I'll start with water.

Um data set this campus, the final uh decisions about what technology is going to be implemented, have not been made.

Uh the Google has done analysis of the greater Indianapolis area, understanding the water balance within the water supply on a more regional level.

Um they are we're working with citizens to develop a service plan that makes sense for the region in addition to preserving service for existing customers within the system, so things aren't adversely impacted, and develop in a way that supports the project.

And we may or may not end up using a cooling system that is evaporative cooling, which is the most water-intensive for this project.

So that's a decision that's in process.

Um lots of factors go into it, has not been made yet.

What uh when you don't use the water cooling, what is the cooling method?

Uh they have a technology where they use air cooling, and any of the air cooling technology implemented is going to have to comply with the noise commitments that have been made to for the project.

Might also call your attention to um three specific commitments in that regard, uh, Mr.

Schumacher.

Um commitment 16 that the developer will be responsible for 100% of the cost for new construction or upgrades to existing infrastructure to the electrical grid, sanitary, municipal water, um, directly attributable to the operation of the proposed data center.

Um we are working very closely with citizens as well as AES in that regard.

And if you also look at um 22, uh a similar type of uh commitment uh regarding providing uh proof that we have the uh available capacity from citizens and AES for infrastructure to serve the site, and you can see that in commitment 22, and then finally uh something similar in in commitment 23 relating to um our obligation for upgrades that are needed to uh uh provide for uh sanitary sewer upgrades, if if any.

And then finally uh something similar in commitment 23 relating to um our obligation for upgrades that are needed to uh uh provide for uh sanitary sewer upgrades, if if any.

So we have heard a lot of these issues through the months, and we've tried our very best to write commitments that show that we are uh responsible and deadly serious about doing the right thing with respect to those types of concerns.

Final questions from members of the commission.

Commissioner I keep armor.

I keep hearing about light pollution with these facilities.

Can you talk about what you're doing to help with that?

Why do they need to be?

I mean, I'm sorry, I'm not techie.

Why do they need to be why does it need to be so much light?

There really isn't so much light.

Um we this new version of the zoning ordinance um actually has light standards um which are measured foot candle minimums and maximums.

Uh the maximums really are for safety for employees coming into the site and parking near the office building, for example, but there is also minimums at the property lines that will essentially assure that we do not have significant light spill at all.

Plus, we've agreed to use full cutoff fixtures, also now a code requirement.

So all of that is uh within the existing zoning code, and you know, we've relayed that uh to uh all the uh interested parties along the way.

What kind of fixtures, Mr.

Calder?

Pardon me?

What kind cutoff fixtures?

Uh full cutoff fixtures, meaning that the bulb is encased in the fixture not sticking out below.

So that helps reduce the spill coming out horizontally.

Yeah, exactly.

Final questions from members of the commission.

Counselor, stand by.

We'll be back with more questions.

Of course, thank you.

Captain Julie Goldsbury, bring your team forward.

You've been duly sworn, Julie.

Your team has been duly sworn.

You're on the clock for 15 minutes.

Go.

I would rather not start until our slides are up.

I need to take our sector.

Can we get Julie's slides up, please?

Can someone show me, please, how to operate?

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ready?

You're on the clock, Julie.

Go.

Hello, I'm Julie Goldsbury, 2804 Davis Road.

Our home is a quarter mile from the site, and we've lived there since 1985.

I share all the objections expressed by all remonstrators at this hearing and in written comments, and I incorporate them by reference into my remarks today.

I asked first that everyone who is here to express opposition to the Franklin Township data center, please stand.

Thank you.

Please be seated.

Commissioners, your manila folders include copies of our slides, comments from our attorney regarding the commitments, and the latest numbers on our petition, which was signed by 797 individuals in the 46239 zip code, 1,069 individuals in the 46239 plus immediately surrounding zip codes, and 5,127 Indiana residents.

This represents substantial opposition from Hoozers to this project.

I would just comment one rebuttal to a remark that the uh petitioner said just a minute ago.

I hope you all heard the threat to your own water supply in your homes and your electric rates implicit in the fact that they're going to take their power and their water from the region, not just from our area.

So it's not just a NIMBY issue.

Um next slide.

It should I just want to note that both the current and the proposed zoning have the property secondarily zoned as floodway and floodway fringe.

There are two streams and four regulated drains within the property, and as all of us who live in the area know, there are significant flooding issues when a lot of rain falls.

Next slide.

Commercial special zoning was intended to allow for more creative approaches in land planning where other commercial districts didn't fit.

It does not fit, however, with a hyperscale data center.

The CS description emphasizes special aspects to a project such as creative, superior, efficient, desirable.

None of these are present in a high hyperscale data center.

The CS description also emphasizes maximum cohesiveness and compatibility.

This heavy industrial use that immediately adjoins dozens of residential properties is in no way cohesive with the existing character of the area, nor the long-range comprehensive plan.

Next slide.

How has zoning for other data centers in Marion County been handled?

There are a number of data centers within Marion County, all are much smaller smaller than Google's proposed monstrosity.

For example, Data Bank has a 31,000 square foot data center at 650 West Henry.

This is approximately six blocks west of Lucas Oil.

The site is zoned I4, heavy industrial, and is surrounded by other I4 uses.

There are no residences near this data center.

Lifeline Data Centers has an 80,000 square foot data center at 401 North Shadowland.

This was the old Eastgate Consumer Mall.

This site is zoned CS but is buffered for nearby residences in yellow here, surrounding commercial businesses in blue.

The land use appears to be much closer to the intended commercial special aspects.

Although it is not a commercial business, it wasn't a creative use for this building that was quick quickly becoming a deteriorating eyesore.

The petitioner refers to their project often as light industrial.

Hyperscale data centers do not fit easily into easily into existing zoning districts but do share characteristics with heavy industrial.

The hallmark of heavy industrial is elevated risks to the general public.

Hyperscale data centers house large amounts of diesel fuel and lithium batteries on site.

Diesel fuel can spill, causing environmental catastrophe, and lithium batteries are difficult to handle in a fire, leading to toxic emissions into surrounding air.

These are only the most egregious of the dangers to the public from this project.

For reasons such as this, the zoning ordinance prohibits heavy industrial uses adjacent to protected districts, yet that's just what's being proposed here.

A number of other jurisdictions across the country have developed new zoning categories for hyperscale data center, such as the data center overlay in Loudoun County, Virginia.

Marion County should pause and consider a special zoning district to protect residential areas from the danger and nuisances that these huge project brings.

So what does the comp plan say about this property?

125 acres, over 25% of the site in yellow here, is marked for low density neighborhood.

The remainder is split between office industrial mixed use and light industrial.

Thus we have buffering similar to the 401 North Shadowland site.

The orange office industrial section is between residential and light industrial and would provide a significant buffer.

Nowhere in this plan is there any heavy industrial use.

Additionally, the mixed use and industrial sections of this plan make up critical area three.

That's why those sections are striped.

Next.

Per the 2019 pattern book, Critical Area 3 is intended to ensure that future development provides appropriate protections to the surrounding neighborhoods.

Our neighborhood associations worked hard to have input into the past several comp plans, including this critical area language, because we wanted to ensure appropriate buffering of residential areas from the light industrial that we knew would inevitably come.

We understand that the comp plan is a suggestion, not a rule, but this is the tool, the only tool that we as homeowners have to express our wishes for what we'd like to see built in our area.

The petitioner often maligns us neighbors, saying that we fight everything that comes along and would not be happy with anything.

But every project that has been brought forward has disregarded the comp plan and other zoning standards.

We are not anti-development.

We understand that something will be built on this site, but all homeowners care about what happens to the properties near their own.

Many HOAs restrict numerous aspects of life in their communities, much smaller than what we're being asked to accept.

Yet we're being derided for asking questions about what's coming.

Any homeowner in our shoes would do the same, and we are tired of being portrayed as troublemakers.

Next slide.

The petitioner has really emphasized the 35 commitments, now 34, that they've made as evidence of their work to mitigate neighbors' concerns.

Our attorney David Deering reviewed these commitments, and his comments are in your packet in the Manila folder.

The bulk of these commitments are low-value commitments, either a commitment to follow existing laws or regulations, they have to do this anyway, illusory promises with language such as where practical, or not generous, for example, to repair damage that they themselves caused.

A mere dozen or so substantive commitments is not adequate to protect the neighborhoods surrounding this site, especially from an unprecedented development being built by a distant huge corporation with no ties to Franklin Township.

We as neighbors are very concerned about the lack of transparency displayed by the petitioner.

NDAs, long waits or no response at all to our questions and inadequate commitments closed and clothed in language about their generosity do not bode well for a long-term relationship between neighbors.

Next.

We've listed a few of the commitments of greatest concern on these next three slides.

For example, number 20 contaminated contamination of water.

This was removed this morning because it was per our attorney it was unconscionable.

We have now inherent protection offered by the law, but no extra protection as we had requested, because this was removed altogether and not replaced with anything.

The petitioner will be quick to note that they added commitment 12 to extend new water and sewer lines to the property where practical, so that neighbors immediately adjoining the property can connect.

This is helpful, but does not address concerns from property owners not directly adjacent about potential disruptions to water pressure or quality.

Issues that have occurred in other data center projects across the country.

Next.

Number nine, noise.

We asked for a commitment of 60 decibels max at the property line during the day and 50 at night.

We asked for decibel readings to be taken daily, and we've repeatedly asked how many generators will be on site and how often they'll be tested because decibel limits do not apply during generator use or testing.

We've received no answer whatsoever about the generators, and the noise commitment was increased to 65 decibels with readings taken only once a month.

Our attorneys comment on this commitment.

The operator can simply determine the time of the month when there will be relatively little energy demand and then measure the noise level each month at that time.

With no noise limit during the 10-year construction period or when generators are in use, we do not feel at all protected from loud noise.

Next, and one more.

Moving now to the variance petition, and specifically the request to increase the max height of the buildings from 45 to 75 feet.

75 feet is higher than the allowable max height for any industrial or commercial use and is 30 feet higher than the commercial special max height.

That's an increase of 67%.

Next.

The petitioner will be quick to point out that they added a commitment to restrict the height of the building closest to Davis Road to 50 feet plus 15 for add-ons such as HVAC.

However, 50 feet is still higher than the max height and with the 15-foot add-on represents a 44% increase over existing zoning standards.

Next, this map shows the location of the four main buildings the petitioner proposes to build and the neighboring homes in yellow.

One building, the furthest one to the right, will be within 500 feet of Davis Road and will therefore be limited to the 50 plus 15 feet limit.

The remaining three would be at the 75 foot height.

These would be the tallest structures, structures in Franklin Township and would dominate the landscape.

Next.

We had an engineer developed this rendering in an attempt to show how close the easternmost building, the farthest one to the right, would be to certain homes.

It's hard to fathom just how large these buildings will be.

The IKEA building in Fisher's is 69 feet tall and 289,000 square feet.

So these buildings would be similar in size to that, except even taller.

This is a photo of a data center in Loudoun County, Virginia.

The building is about 66 feet tall, so nine feet shorter than the Google buildings we're talking about.

This is a Google data center in Singapore.

The building's about 80 feet tall.

Even with mature trees surrounding one side of the building, it is not remotely screened from the view of anyone in the vicinity.

This rendering shows 300,000 square foot buildings of 45 and 75 foot height, next to a standard residential home of 15 foot height.

The small dot way to the right is the home.

Even with larger than normal berms and setbacks, these buildings will dominate the landscape.

The variance requests for increase from 45 to 75 feet is inappropriate and intrusive.

Local residents are already being asked to put up with substantial traffic, noise, pollution, utility rate increases, and water and power concerns.

To ask for a massive increase to the building height as well, is adding insult to injury.

Over the past several months, a number of jurisdictions in Indiana have fought back against data data center projects.

A couple of particular note.

In March of 2025, the Valparaiso City Council declined to support a data center, stating, it is clear now that the option of the data center is not something our residents favor.

I regret the angst and frustration it has caused some of our citizens.

Last month, the Michigan City City Council denied abatements for a data center due to lack of value to city residents and lack of binding commitments.

We cannot think of better words to also describe the Franklin Township project.

In summary, there are two petitions here, and both are deficient.

On the zoning, no existing zoning districts fit, and the comp plan doesn't fit.

Marion County should pause and create thoughtful regulations to protect residents from these extractive, non-tax-paying, low job creating projects to ensure that the interests of Marion County and its townships are protected.

On the variants, petitioners asking for a 67% increase to the 45-foot building height allowed by CS zoning.

This is completely out of character for a project of budding residential neighborhoods and will dominate the skyline for miles around.

There are 68 immediately adjacent homes, 126 additional homes next to those, and hundreds of homes slightly further out.

Approving this variance will set a dangerous precedent for further development in Franklin Township and Marion County.

It adds insult to injury for neighbors who would already suffer many inconveniences and is too much to ask.

We respectfully request that you deny both these petitions.

Thank you.

Thank you, Julie.

Questions for the remonstrator from members of the commission.

Any questions?

I have a question.

Commissioner Murphy.

Julie, can you come back to the podium, please?

That uh speaks with inadequate commitments, and this specifically is number 21 uh working with IFD.

And then it it the request is that petitioner pay for special equipment supplies and gear required to address emergency situation on the properties.

My question is is there information in here or something from IFD that affirms that they in fact require additional training or equipment to deal with the property?

There's not.

We have no information from the petitioner until this very presentation about the fact that they had a that they're going to do it on site themselves and all that.

We so we don't know what's needed, and we don't know if I FD thinks that's a um adequate.

We don't we don't know.

We get very limited information.

But you don't have any information from IFD affirming that they require additional training or equipment.

We do not.

Okay, thank you.

Additional questions from the remonstrator.

Julie, stand close by.

You'll have another five minutes on rebuttal.

Councillor Hart, welcome.

Council, it's always a pleasure to have you.

It is a pleasure.

Uh you've been duly sworn.

I saw you out of the corner of my eye.

Yes, sir.

You're on.

Good, sir.

All right.

So I want to thank, start by thanking everybody here.

I know how much of a demanding job you guys have.

Um, thank you, President Dillon, members of the Commission.

Um I also want to give respects to the petitioners.

Um we do this day in, day out on all sorts of petitions, uh, whether it's this case or another.

I'm going to work with Joe again.

I'm going to work with a lot of these attorneys in the room.

Um, everybody's doing their best and doing what they need to do, but especially the remonstrating group.

Uh I want to give a handout to these folks.

Uh there has been an NDA in this process, and they've gone above and beyond and miles beyond what I've seen other remonstration groups been able to accomplish.

Uh, the amount that they've been able to bring in the room today is is amazing to me.

And you guys have done a really good job.

Um I want to open up by letting you guys know just a couple things.

Um, one, my professional background uh is both in is in IT.

I've got a degree in programming, another degree in IT.

I work for an organization where we actually uh have the ability to create the solutions inside of data centers.

I know what this stuff looks like.

Seems like feels like I'm in it every single day.

In addition to that, uh here locally in the city, uh I founded the AI Commission for the City of Indianapolis.

So technology is not lost on me and the importance of it and and what it means to to grow our city.

Uh and I actually created a slogan that I use all the time that my goal is to create the smartest city in America.

So technology is a foundation of a lot of those things.

Um addition to that, I am the district uh counselor for for this area, and I've spent since December working with not only this group, uh portions of Franklin Township, uh, this organization here, but as well as the IEDI, who's in the back here, the IEDC, AES, uh, Franklin Township Civic League, the School Corporation, Marion County uh Planning Organization, the petitioner, engineering teams, the Civic League.

I've talked to everybody that is at the table for this conversation and made sure to hear out everybody thoroughly.

Uh, I never released a position on this until the day before the hearing examiner, often frustrating the remonstrating group at time for not knowing where I actually stood on that, and I did that intentionally to make sure that I heard from everybody and then I knew every detail that I possibly could, having even signed an NDA and a piece of this.

So this is not necessarily a simple yes or no issue.

Um, it's a question of for me, how do we responsibly use 460 acres that is left in in my district, but also in the city of Indianapolis.

460 acres is a commodity in Indianapolis.

There's a lot of space throughout our state, but 460 acres is a lot here that we can actually look at the long-term well-being of residents, infrastructure, and the economy for the next 50 years.

And so when we think about 50 years in technology, I often ask people to think about this.

Think about back 50 years and what technology was like then and what it is now, and also think forward 50 years.

It's gonna be drastically different.

We don't know that data centers will even need to be in the same shape, size, and capacity that we're even planning for today or discussing today.

So, what have I heard from the community?

The majority of residents who have contacted me have expressed opposition to the development.

Their concerns are all very valid.

We've heard them all here today about uh the building size, the water, the noise, uh the generators, power consumption, all of these sorts of things.

Uh residents also cite challenges in the area with traffic congestion, lack of sidewalks, overcrowded schools.

Uh those who support the development generally favor commercial uh not this development, but support development in general.

They do support a more commercial two to three tax cap type.

Uh there has been some pushback in the past on residential.

That was before my time in this district.

I will tell you that what I need, I do need people in District 20, because I have an initiative to re to rebuild Washington Street, and it and it's going to take people to do that.

Uh so I'm not necessarily against residential in this situation by any means.

But regardless of opinion, everyone does agree one thing, and in every land use meeting I've been in from the Civic League, and there's about half a dozen of them, this land will be redeveloped.

There's no questioning that.

We know it will be redeveloped.

The question is, what kind of development is going to benefit Franklin Township, District 20, and Indianapolis the most.

So I want to bring your attention uh education and school funding.

I did have the opportunity to speak with the school corporation, uh, the Franklin Township School Corporation, and they're actually currently planning to raise teacher salaries this year.

Uh, this is important because the way that they're having to do that is move dollars from their education fund over to the operational fund.

Now, what I've learned throughout this process is that the operational fund in school boards is or in school organizations is funded by property taxes.

So they're actually having to take dollars away from education to move them over to uh the operating side.

When we have developments that are impacting the property taxes in an or in a in a land piece, that will impact the schools.

Uh this underscores why this form of development matters.

That the proposed data center, the structure, with essentially a pay, it's it's very similar to a payment in lieu of taxes, uh, where we are it is offering very limited direct support to local schools, and specifically, it does not provide the kind of reoccurring scalable tax base needed to improve educational outcomes on infrastructure investments that are rapidly growing in the township.

Uh and on that piece specifically, uh, there is a letter that you guys have from the school corporation opposing this development just as much.

Uh, in addition to that, the body that I sit on on the council, we are adjusting property tax relief co it funds in this current uh month that will also impact schools in Marion County.

I know in Warren, they'll be impacted by 300,000 less.

I don't know what that means for Franklin.

Uh I didn't get those figures, but they will be impacted negatively from uh coat dollars that we actually move over to property taxes.

So, what we build in this district is extremely important to growing infrastructure and the school base as it pertains to property taxes.

Impact of economic trade-offs.

Uh so I ran my own financial analysis on this model.

Essentially, what I did is I took my property tax card that I received in the mail and I extrapolated that out, uh, essentially analyzing the impact of 1,000 new homes over 40 years, the same kind of abatement uh frame we're looking at.

Starting in year five and then building for 23 years, uh, my model estimated over 157 million in total tax contribution, 157 million in total tax contributions, and that includes income taxes.

The IEDI confirmed the accuracy of my analysis and provided additional figures for what could be expected from industrial or commercial development without abatements, which came higher than residential.

However, I am bound to non-disclosure agreements and cannot share the exact numbers that the petitioner has offered.

But what I can say is this we are taking hits locally with because of Senate Bill.

Uh, this data center would benefit from extensive tax abatements, 50 years on sales tax exemptions, 50 years on energy tax, 40 years on personal property tax, and 10 years on real uh property.

The payment being proposed in essentially lieu of taxes is egregiously lower and significantly lower than what we could get for other alternative uses in this space.

My greatest confirm concern is how we develop that affects the rest of District 20.

I'm currently working right around the corner on Post Road with multiple landowners and environmental advocates to preserve the East Side Flats.

Nearby, we have industrial zoned properties where uh I've spoken to individuals uh that where we talked about Pepsi earlier, Pepsi's over there.

Uh we have a lot of we actually created a TIFF over there.

Uh there is concern that's coming out of this if we build the data center that it's going to limit the amount of energy we're able to use for future developments.

So my big concern as a stakeholder in this area is if we have the the land the energy use from consumption from the data center that when I have somebody coming in looking for a site selection to build another type of development, that energy is not going to be there.

And I've got real examples for you.

Since this started, uh this petition started back in December.

I've had two manufacturing companies come to my district.

They both come through this body as well because they needed abatements.

Uh they have brought combined 500 jobs and have abatements for less than seven years and take up a fraction of the space in compared to this proposed data center, which would bring about 50 jobs, consume far more energy, and provide far less in return, both in jobs and tax revenue as a benefit to the community.

So I'd like to conclude that the core issue here is not whether the development will happen or what development will happen, it is what kind of development we choose.

Based on the public feedback I've received, the analysis I have conducted, and the opportunity costs to other areas in my district.

I cannot support this proposal as at all.

And we should be looking, we should not be locking up one of the largest remaining land opportunities in Franklin Township for a project that offers limited jobs, reduced tax benefits, and long-term restrictions on infrastructure growth.

We must do better for our residents, our schools, and the future of the district.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Questions for Councillor Hart, from members of the Commission.

Counselor, if you'd stand by, I may have a compliment down the road.

Thank you for being here, sir.

Staff.

Marlene.

Thank you, President Dillon.

Members of the Commission.

The 600 467 square foot.

I apologize.

The 467 acre subject site is comprised of 13 parcels.

The majority of the parcels are undeveloped agricultural land, but five parcels are developed with a mix of single-family dwellings, accessory structures, cattle farm and agriculture.

Accessory buildings.

The request would read on the property from the DA flood fringe and floodway zoning district, C4, SC43 districts to the CS districts, also within the flood fringe and floodway for a data center campus development that would include primary uses such as light manufacturing, all research and development, utilities and offices, for example, and then accessory uses, which would include utility structures, power substations, water towers, and renewable renewable energy facilities.

The proposal for the CS district, in staff's opinion, would make sense.

The CS district is designed to permit within a single zoning district multi-use commercial complexes or land use combinations of commercial and non-commercial uses or single-use commercial projects.

The primary objective of this district is to encourage development, which achieves a high degree of excellence in planning, design, or function, and can be intermixed, grouped, or otherwise uniquely located with maximum cohesiveness and compatibility.

The district provides flexibility and procedural economy by permitting the broadcast range of land use choices within a single district while maintaining adequate land use controls.

As mentioned, the proposal would have a number of uses on this site if the data center were ever to not go forward.

There is still the other permitted uses on site.

The variance in question is to grant the allowance of the building height of 75 feet and no more, no maximum front yard setback.

Building structures along transitional yards may increase one foot to per one foot of additional side setback up to 45 feet, and then fronts along primary thoroughfares have a maximum of 85 feet from the proposed right-of-way or existing right-of-way, whichever is greater.

The petitioner has indicated that they have proposed a height limitation, and I believe they have a map indicating where those height limitations would occur on site.

The site falls within multiple land use typologies of the comprehensive plan, with the majority being non-residential recommendations that include light industrial, office industrial mixed use, and regional commercial that make up more than half of the site on the western end.

The eastern portion of the site notes rural or state neighborhood typology.

There are other typologies that make up a small fraction of the site, which are floodway and linear park recommendations.

With regards to the comprehensive plan recommendations, as a whole, staff determined that the proposed uses would be compatible with the uses recommended in the light industrial, office industrial mixed use and regional commercial recommendations.

Because the data center in particular is not called out into comprehensive plan, staff has the flexibility to make the interpretation where the use would be appropriate based on the size of the property, proposed layout of the development, and the context of the surrounding area.

Due to the site's proximity to I-74 and the entrance and exit ramps, it would be a prime location for access to the facility.

As proposed, the entrance to the site would be off post road, which already has truck traffic for the adjacent industrial and commercial uses located along this primary arterial street.

In regards to noise, the petitioner proposed a commitment that the maximum noise level at the property line, once fully operational, shall not exceed 65 decibels, except for emergency use of generators or periods of testing emergency generators.

In regards to water, the site would be planned to utilize two to three million gallons of water.

And there is a letter from Citizens Energy Group that has indicated that they would be working with the petitioner and have full support for this proposal.

In regards to the electricity, AES is the power company that will provide electricity to the project site.

Staff was informed that AES has helped identify and evaluate the site for feasibility, and they are working to determine how much electrical power is needed and working to ensure the site has been can be supplied.

There is also a letter of support from AES within the case file.

There is a linear park recommendation as previously mentioned from the comprehensive plan that should be considered and incorporated into the site design layout.

The Southeast Trail is proposed through the Indie Green's Full Circle Master Plan Part 1 from 2024 2014.

The client has committed to keep the land between Fisher Ditch and Troy Avenue with open space and is working with the City of Indianapolis, DPW Trails and Greenways to accommodate a portion of the Southeast Trail around the perimeter of the north of the utility easement to ensure the viability of the trail system.

This is an important aspect that staff did work with the petitioner to ensure would be included within their commitments.

And then the building height, in staff's opinion, because the plan calls for a 100-foot landscape buffer zone with an additional 550, sorry, with an additional 50-foot building setback for total minimum setback of 200 feet in addition to the proposed 10 to 15 foot tall mounds with deciserous trees and six-foot tall evergreen trees to be installed within the first phase of development.

The height variance request is supportable by staff.

Additional items that staff would note are the above ground utilities.

We would ask that they would be buried where possible.

And then there were some indications of some fence heights.

So those would need to be addressed either by variants or with relocation or removal.

The petitioner has been made aware of this.

Staff is recommending approval of the rezoning and the variance requests subject to the proposed commitments.

There are 34 based on testimony now, there are 35 that address staff's concerns, and some include uh the Greenway Trail and infrastructure improvements.

We would note that there are letters of support from AES Citizens Energy Group, Franklin Township, Chamber of Commerce, and the Franklin Township Civic League Inc.

And now staff will turn it over to Jim Schellinger with IEDI for additional comments.

Thank you, Marlene.

We'll be back to you for questions.

Let me recognize the CEO of the Indianapolis Economic Development Committee just formed this January.

Jim, it's an honor to have you here today.

Thank you, Mr.

President.

President Dillon, distinguished members of the commission, uh to all of you, thank you very much for all the work you do to the staff, to all the distinguished members and citizens of our city that are here today.

Um I can only think of, as I've sat through all this discussion, my father, my brother, and my son who served in the Ring Corps, that we're all here today because of them, that we can come in here and voice our opinions and that kind of thing.

So this is my first MDC meeting, so bear with me in my little on that.

Um but I am Jim Schellinger.

I live at 4235 Hayward Lane, Indianapolis, Indiana, 46250.

Um, as mentioned, I'm an architect by profession.

That's what I did for 32 years.

Um, and then I was asked to leave and take a 18-month leave of absence to serve as Secretary of Commerce under Governor Mike Pence.

I did that, ended up staying six and a half years under Governor Holcomb.

And the reason I did that is because I could see that every day I could get out of bed and have a positive impact on the livelihoods of people.

And having grown up in a family with eight kids and a challenging uh financial situation with my mother and father, wanting for nothing, by the way, but just back in the baby boomers.

Um that that meant a lot to me.

So after that, I did a dissertation and I uh fellowship at Butler University on international business uh from being secretary.

I retired at that point, and then I was asked to come out and help lead this effort to bifurcate develop Indy from the chamber to put more of a microscope on economic development, which as you know is the livelihood of jobs and and so on and so forth.

So I'm proud to be here in that uh capacity today.

But I want to make it clear um I do not serve Google.

I do not serve Barnes and Thornburg.

Um, I do not serve uh, I serve you guys.

That's who I serve.

I serve the citizens of the state.

I don't serve EMHT, the engineer, I have a great deal of respect for all these people, but that's not who I serve.

I serve you, the people, and I couldn't be prouder of doing that.

The uh I think the main message I'd like to communicate today is the what I would refer to as the troubling current reality.

And right or wrong, um, and I'm sure it's well intended, but and I don't mean to be too critical, but I think the process that has occurred on this project from the start, and as long as I've been involved with it, has much to be desired.

I I've been a part of having to bring communities together and consensus for things like the Indianapolis Airport, I was architect on the JW Mara, IPS schools.

I I think if I had to sit down and somebody said from the 38 different things like this I did write down all the things you shouldn't do, I think all the things you shouldn't do have been done on this process.

Um I think that uh if I had a magic wand, I'd tell everybody to start over.

And I've been here, I've done this, but I haven't seen anything quite like this.

Remember, I was the I would tell you for the record, and some of you can relate to this.

I was the architect that did the master plan for Anderson Community Schools.

I had to get up front of me like this and recommend they close the wigwam.

So if you can imagine that was quite emotional.

Um, but these are things that we do in the in the spirit of progress.

But there's nothing, um nothing I have been part of has been like this.

So I'm very sympathetic, very sympathetic to everyone that's here today.

You know, my pastor used to say there's three kinds of people in the world.

There's people that make things happen, there's people that watch things happen, there's people that wonder what happened.

Well, we can all be proud of today, and I'm regardless of whether it's Google or Barnes and Thornberg or EMHG, we can be proud of the fact that in this room today it's filled with people that make things happen.

Um I can't imagine there's too many more people in the township that aren't represented here today with this beautiful crowd we have today.

And I believe in these people.

I believe in what she had to say.

Uh, being a loving mother of three with the youngest child having some disabilities.

My youngest child had some disabilities, and he was touching go first five years in his life, so autoimmunity encephalitis is a serious thing.

I believe that she cares about her seven employees and what might happen to her skin care business with what's going on here.

I believe in Julie Wirtz, who talked about the concerns of the noise and the pollution and the concessions uh that were removed from fire, which is a question that came up a little bit earlier today.

I believe in Julie Goldsbury, who expressed concerns about the potential for skyrocketing utility costs, and others too.

I think Andrew Filler made it clear at the hearing about water concerns and lack of transparency.

Uh Brittany York talked about serenity and the and hiding behind NDAs.

I signed an NDA and I long supported full disclosure.

I guess the question I have for Council Hart is why did he?

Um why would a counselor that represents a district be willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement that would disable him from being able to be totally 100% transparent from his constituents that elected him?

But that's a question for another day.

Um the NDA uh with no termination date hour, mind you.

I mean, those things happen.

I have to sign these, it's a part of my profession that I do this with businesses, but I'm not an elected official.

The counselor, who then from this very podium, from this very podium uh stated a concern for collusion between the president of AES and this newly organization, the IEDI, because the president of AES serves on our board.

Despicable.

I can assure you there has been no discussion with the with the person at our board from AES because she's been on medical leave for six weeks.

And I was appalled that her integrity would be questioned in this form.

And if this counselor wants to do a debate, a character debate on somebody's integrity, he better stick with me because Brandy Davis Handy is way above his league.

So why do I bring all this up to you today?

All these things.

My biggest criticism of Google, since I've been involved in this, is why aren't you guys being open?

I come to these people and I say, trust me, trust me, this is going to be good for you.

But I can't tell you my name.

I can't tell you what I do.

I can't, I won't tell you all the things that are going to be good for you.

Joe, you know I said this in meeting after meeting.

I said the thing about the people in this area, they don't care about Google.

They care about themselves.

So why isn't Google telling them the name, what they do, and all the benefits that are in it for these people?

They still have not done that.

There's a lot of things that will benefit this community that have not been put on the table for lack of wanting to invest and what it will take to determine what those benefits are until these kinds of approvals get done.

Because as you can imagine, they result in massive, massive investments.

But I've said this before.

Why why they've asked me.

I've been asked several times.

Jim, what do you want?

I said, I it doesn't matter what I want.

It's not about me, it's about these people.

What do they want?

What do they want to see in their community?

I was really proud of some of my colleagues, which by the way, um, we only have seven people.

I I would like to find the person that has the intelligence, I hired all of them, the intelligence to validate tax numbers because I hired all of them, and I'm not aware of anybody in our organization that has a CPA or any kind of tax experience that can actually calculate that.

That's all done by consultants.

But I'd like to find out that person because I'm obviously getting that person for a good price.

But on behalf of the Indy Economic Development Organization, I'm here today to support the zoning modification in this variance.

But let me tell you why.

The reason I support it is this, in my opinion, is just one more step in the process that it's going to take to really find out the answers to our questions.

There's nobody that knows the environmental impact of this.

There's nobody that knows the real answer to the water.

We have speculations.

I got in the car on Monday, and I drove eight and a half hours over to New Albany, Ohio, because I'd never seen a data center, but I wanted to see one.

So I saw what was up in the pictures.

It's a those pictures are very microscopic, they're hard to see.

It's a it's a massive development.

But I wanted to see more.

I wanted to learn more.

And I think there's so much more study that needs to be done relative to things that could be even bigger problems than what have been stated today.

Or maybe so that may not be as big a problems.

But I think that everything's done today has been far from conclusive.

Um and there's so much more work to do.

And I certainly don't have all the answers.

I don't even know all the questions.

But here's what I do know.

I do know that we need more facts.

And the burden of facts are not on these people from Franklin Township.

The burden of facts are on Google and the people that are going to do this development.

They are the ones that have to provide the information and the studies, and aren't willing to do so, I don't believe, because they have to make a big investment to do this.

So if they're not going to be able to go forward based on what this uh uh commission decides, then they're not going to find those things out for sure.

But we are far from being conclusive.

But what I do know is 1.5 billion dollars is a lot of money.

1 billion for the operation, 500 million for construction jobs that are temporary, of course, but in this case, probably three years.

That's a heck of a lot of money.

I don't know what else is there's gonna be another development here, maybe, but no development here is zero taxes.

And I think it's been a little understated about just how many taxes this community is going to experience for schools and other things, because the abatement is 50 percent, just not 100% of the cost.

So we talk about 50 jobs to start.

I'm all about jobs.

When I was your secretary, that's the biggest uh incentive I gave to people all across the world in 61 countries, jobs.

So we say 50 jobs, but you know it reminded me this morning.

I had to call my wife to get this reference.

I said, Who was the company that used to have a tagline that said we don't make the products you buy, we make the products you buy better.

I couldn't remember who that was, and she texted me back and said, BASF, because she knows how to Google a lot better than I do.

So she said BASF, and I remembered that.

So what I would argue is that a debtor's data center project doesn't necessarily make the products we buy.

It enables us to have the technology and the backup to do all the things we do that might support millions of jobs and millions of things we all want to do with all the technology that everybody sits and works on throughout every discussion we're a part of.

That's what I do know, it's a lot of money.

And I'd like to find out more.

I'd like to learn more.

This is cutting edge technology.

This is the first of many that are gonna happen.

You are going to be hearing many of these, as is every single Metropolitan Development Commission all around the country are gonna be hearing these because this is the future and is a technology that we need to do the things that help our lives and help us to exist.

Cutting edge technology that, if the questions get answered and they get answered to somebody's satisfaction, just might take a city like Indianapolis and a township like Franklin Township and put us on the map as somebody that uh was the first to do something really great.

So thank you very much for your time.

Thank you, Mr.

Schellinger.

Questions for staff?

I have a couple questions for staff.

Commissioner Murphy.

Um the 65 decibel uh limit at the property line, I assume.

Um, is that embodied in code?

Uh the municipal code, or is that negotiable on every proposal?

Tell me a little bit about that decibel level.

That is the decibel level that was proposed by the petitioner.

Um sure there are the noise ordinance, but then uh Marion County, I do not know that off the top of my head, so I might have to look into that further.

Maybe I'll ask petitioner about that, and then on the variance request for the building height, which staff supports, how does that height um relate to what would be the building height limits if it was developed closer to what was recommended in the comprehensive plan?

In other words, uh there's a portion that's office industrial mixed use.

What would that building height limit be or the portion that's heavy commercial?

What would that building height limit be?

I'm just trying to get a sense of this height variance request relative to what it could be as per the comprehensive plan.

So based on the CS district that's being proposed here, the maximum within that district would be 38 feet.

Yeah, which is not really my question.

So if you look at the um comprehensive plan map that I think the petitioner submitted, and there's areas in that that show heavy commercial.

What would be the building height limit in heavy commercial?

Give me one moment, I will check on our news table and our ordinance.

Thank you, Commissioner Murphy.

Um for base zoning districts that align with the various uh comprehensive plan recommendations along the western portion of the property.

Um let's take I2, for example, which is our low-intensity industrial district.

Uh primary building heights, even along transitional yards, uh, could be as tall as 50 feet tall.

So while what is proposed exceeds that, um, I would also allude to the 150-foot landscape area as well as the overall 200 foot building setback.

Right, and and that's the information I'm looking for.

And so that speaks to the light industrial.

What would it be for where it says office industrial mixed use?

Well, the I-2 does allow for industrial uses as well as office commercial uses by right, which is so that would embody the I2.

And then how about heavy commercial?

I assume that's like a C seven.

Correct.

So what's a height?

So the C7 has a maximum height of 35 feet tall.

Okay.

All right.

And then um there's a statement in the remonstrators material uh that says that during the 10-year construction period, there's no noise limit, is what I believe it's stating.

Is that correct?

Or would that noise limit apply from day one?

Uh could you confirm which commitment you were referencing at that point?

Um nine.

And again, this is an analysis that the uh remonstrator passed out, but um in the middle column where it says offered by petitioner, it says no limit during the 10-year construction period.

I'm just curious whether that's a correct characterization of the commitment.

Commitment nine, the first statement reads except for emergency use of generators or periods of testing emergency generators, the maximum noise level at the property line once fully operational shall not exceed 65 decibels.

I would probably direct that question to the petitioner.

Yeah, I agree.

Thank you.

One more question, please.

Yes for staff, please.

Commissioner West.

The building that's designated as the first up building uh to the east.

Is that within the 500 feet called out in paragraph 11 of the commitments, which would be limited to 50 feet high 500 feet from Davis Road?

Give me one moment.

There is a map that indicates where that would be and where that height limitation would start, so I will pull that up.

Thank you.

Okay, if you look on the staff report, page 74.

Well, never mind, it's in black and white, but on the screen it's in color.

The area in the area in the purple pink shade would be the 75 feet, and then the area in the blue, which is furthest east, would be the 50 to 60 foot range.

So a portion of that building would be uh the majority of the portion would be within the um 75 foot range.

If you can see that line up.

Right.

The west portion of the building would appear to be can exceed to the tallest.

And then the east portion of that building would be limited in height.

Thank you.

You're wrong.

Final questions for staff.

Petitioner.

You have five minutes on rebuttal.

Counselor.

In your rebuttal clarify.

So the record is correct.

The MDC request is a 10-year, 50% abatement on all real property improvements at the site, which we introduced today during the resolutions.

And then you're going to the city county council for a 40-year 100% personal property tax exemption on data center equipment, which you'll handle directly with council.

With the city county council.

That is the same.

I want to make sure that's correct.

That is correct.

Clock, go.

Thank you.

Um 15 minutes was tight, obviously, for the presentation.

Five is going to be super tight, and we certainly respect the comments that uh the remonstrance group made as well as Councillor Hart.

One thing you don't see, and this is often the case in uh zoning cases, that is that there is always quiet support uh for these projects.

No more glaring omission of that is in the case of the Franklin Township Civic League, who has voted and supported this.

The Civic League has been around for many many years.

That is kind of the gateway to any land use petition within the township.

Uh they are a volunteer group, they are not composed of comprised of developers or anything like that.

We earn their support through our hard work and negotiation of commitments, uh ultimately leading to their submission of a letter and support.

So I get the fact that people can show up at a hearing and say we're opposed, that's fine.

That's their absolute right to do.

But that's not the only voice in Franklin Township that weighs in on projects like these.

And it was a difficult decision for the Civic League because there are a lot of competing interests and and facts that have been bandied about, and I hate to say people can Google and see you know facts about data centers, some of which may be true and others which may not.

All I can tell you is this.

We are proud of what we have done in bringing this proposal forward to you today.

And our commitments are comprehensive and do address all of the topics that have been raised as areas of concern, traffic, noise, etc.

To your question, uh Counselor Murphy, um, the 65 decibel limit is operational for the data center.

There is not a side-by-side construction decibel limit because that is undertaken, frankly, by third parties.

There is a noise ordinance in the city that is a nuisance standard without a decibel limit.

It's just uh written in such a fashion that if it creates uh a nuisance that it is a violation of that ordinance.

So uh the ordinance does go in to limit construction times, etc.

to help mitigate those types of concerns, and that would apply to this project or any other project where there's construction taking place.

Um we do believe we've done our homework and done our due diligence to uh bring forward this proposal to you uh today, and that we are confident um of our noise limits of our height limits.

We're not asking for 75 feet.

Uh we reduced further reduced our building uh sizes, and we get the fact that we do have exceptions for pertinences, like a water cooler could be ground mounted or roof mounted to take it up beyond the 50 or 60 building mass, but the building masses have been reduced significantly, much closer to the industrial standard that Commissioner Murphy uh had asked about.

Um with respect to environmental concerns, all of our diesel tanks are uh underground, buried primary and secondary containments.

All of our equipment is secured.

These are security viewed 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

So we're not concerned given our experience with these about vandalism or catastrophic types of things.

And we were just not there yet.

We did write a fire department commitment in our uh statement of commitments in response to that, but that was remonstrance driven, not something we promised and then took away.

We do agree to consult with the fire department and work with them to make sure they have access and necessary equipment to serve the site.

That's the responsible thing to do.

We just weren't willing to say, oh, we'll buy a piece of equipment because that was just too premature at the time.

Our commitments actually reflect in the significant majority those requested by either the Civic League and or groups of neighbors.

And Counselor, you've hit your time.

Questions?

Final questions for the petitioner.

Joe, stay at the podium, please.

Final questions.

Yes.

Go.

Mr.

Petitioner, sir.

I would ask the remonstrators indicated there were a number of these commitments that were required by law and some which have been agreed upon through conversation.

I would ask you to clarify which have been required by law.

I I have no idea, to be honest with you.

There are all every commitment that we have written in was negotiated through requests of the Civic League or the planning staff.

I never saw any kind of comments or requests from the attorney representing the remonstrator.

So I think it's a blanket statement that is very generic.

I have no idea.

Yes, we have to require uh abide by all applicable laws.

What we were reflecting in our commitments were specific requests regarding certain characteristics or desires, whether they be from the city with respect to right-of-way or greenways, or from the remonstrators concerning noise or energy or infrastructure or ability to communicate uh with the petitioner.

So I, in all honesty, and I don't mean to be flippant, I never saw the comments from uh the attorney representing the remonstrator.

So I don't know which ones he's pointing at that are he's saying, well, we're just uh rewriting what's already at place.

To be clear, counselor, we're now at with your gracious offer to have the site plan reviewed by staff, we're at 35 commitments.

35 commitments.

We were at 35, we went to 34, and now we're back at 35.

And the one that was the one that was eliminated this morning came to me overnight from the president of the Civic League, and she said, get rid of it.

We've consulted with an attorney.

It takes away our rights, we think, so get rid of it in its entirety.

We heard your tweet.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Other questions are not done yet, Joe.

Come on back.

Other questions for the petitioner.

Yes, President Dillon.

Go.

Counselor, um, speaking of commitments, were there any substantive requests or commitments that staff asked for that didn't make it into the commitments we had before us today?

Not to my knowledge.

Can staff weigh in on that?

Is that accurate?

That is correct.

All the comment concerns that we had were addressed.

Thank you.

Final questions for the petitioner.

Thank you.

Julie.

You and your team are up for five minutes.

Rebuttal.

Please introduce yourself and your address.

My name is Brittany York.

My address is 9638 Vandergriff Road.

Britney, and I saw you, you were duly sworn earlier.

Yes, sir.

You're on the clock.

Go.

All right.

So I made a point of bringing up the Acidic League letter of support.

I think you all have a copy of that.

If you'll read it through, you will see that that letter of support was about as reluctant as you can get while still you know not opposing.

I spoke with the Civic League Land Use Committee.

Part of that was that by agreeing to support the data center, they were able to lock in commitments which would act as a safety net so that if this did get passed, the residents would at least have some of those concessions by Google to fall back on.

So that was an effort to protect us and again act as a safety net in the best way that they could.

Um as far as the attorney's statement, we were instructed by the hearing examiner to try to negotiate the commitments.

So we attempted to do that.

I then emailed him five more times asking for a response.

It took him until August 5th to reply to my concerns.

At that point, we realized that okay, this is not showing good faith.

So we hired an attorney to review the commitments as they were negotiated with the Franklin Township Civic League, because we saw some alarming language in those commitments.

The one that was removed just this morning was because I sent the Civic League, the commentary from the attorney that we hired, and that is the one that Julie stated was unconscionable because it effectively removed our ability to sue in a civil court if they poison our water.

Now you'll see in those commitments and in the attorney commentary.

Uh, to answer your question, sir, you were asking about what is actually legally required.

One of them is asking for the wetlands delination report.

That would have always already been required.

Another one was to check with you know, get all required permits on the federal, state, and local agencies for the backfill.

So some of these are just simply do what you're supposed to do here.

Now, yes, he's saying, you know, we're making all of these consolations, but they use a lot of what the attorney called weasel words or illusory language, so that these commitments are not actually effective or enforceable.

So these generous commitments are anything but the height, yes, that was just recently dropped down to 65 feet, but as you are stating any of the other uses for that would max out at was it 38 feet, so even 65 feet is well above and beyond anything remotely close to this area.

For Mr.

Schnellinger, um, I appreciate that it and recognize that you're excited about new technology, but this wait and see approach is not the way that we would like to go about it.

If you see a flooded street, you don't just go ahead and drive into the flooded street to find out how deep it is.

That's how you end up with getting washed off of the road.

Because this is the point where we lose our ability to fight back.

This is the point where you know, with during the rezone, this is when we can be directly involved as community members.

Past this point, once it gets approved for rezone, we can no longer participate actively and in fighting back in the details of this, and this whole like, oh, just wait and see.

That's not a risk that we can take.

The positive impact on livelihood, it's gonna lower the quality of life of the neighborhood, the neighbors that are right next to it, and it's not providing enough jobs.

So Brittany, you've reached your time.

Yes, sir.

Thank you very much for your comments.

Questions for the remonstrators.

Thank you.

Questions for remonstrators.

See and none.

Thank you, Brittany, very much.

Counselor Hart, you're still opposed.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Do you have any brief comments?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

All right, thank you for the time, Mr.

President.

Um, this is the first time I've had my character questioned in NBC hearing.

Um I'm shocked, and I'll explain you know what he may be alluding to.

Uh, but I first do want to agree with Mr.

Shellinger on on something that is very clear.

The process has been very egregious the entire time.

Uh, of all the zoning hearings, use case variances, whichever body I'm in front of in the organizations I'm dealing with, they have been far more willing to speak to me, work with me than Google has throughout this process.

It has been the hardest client I've ever, not a client, but uh petitioner I've ever had to work with, which gives me terrible resolve going to the forward and trying to work with these folks on what could be, which is still a lot of unknown.

Um, as for a couple of the things here, um why sign an NDA?

That was a question I heard that I certainly want to ask or answer for you.

I represent 40,000 people in my district.

I speak for those 40,000 people.

I need to be informed for those 40,000 people, and the only way for me to get that information was to sign the NDA.

And that was the right decision, and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Uh, and have have had that information has put me in the position that I am right now of opposition.

As for collusion, I've never made such comments when I was in front of the hearing examiner.

I said something, and I'll say it again to you.

Uh I made an observation.

I made an observation to them that the person, the organizations that are going to stand to benefit the most from this are Citizens Energy and AES.

AES through the IEDC created an incentive that allows all sales tax on energy to be abated for 50 years.

The observation I made is that the president of AES sits on IEDI's board, and I requested that the hearing examiner uh remove the uh letters for uh support because of that reason.

Nobody's character was mentioned, an observation was made.

Um following up, you know, the the thing that came from the beginning, and now we're seemingly back to it, is this intent of we'll pass zoning and we'll learn more later.

Uh the remonstrator did a phenomenal phenomenal job articulating what I articulated multiple times uh in meetings in the public, that this is their only chance to stop a development.

After zoning, they are they are they are irrelevant, not in a negative way, but they really are.

There's nothing else the public can do past this point, and this is their chance.

So if we're not finished, we're not ready for to pass anything along this lines.

Um as for noise, um it is something that goes along.

We've got a racetrack down on that side of town at the Marion County Fairgrounds.

We already have an issue with noise, adding ten years of construction noise without limitations.

I can tell you uh BNS is not chasing IMPD, is not chasing uh decibel readings.

That just doesn't happen.

It doesn't get enforced, so it's gonna be loud during construction.

That's the reality of what that looks like.

Um and with that, I'll leave you with my comments.

Thank you, Mr.

Judge.

Counselor Hart, thank you for being here.

Members of the commission, you have two ballots in your packet.

They're designated 2025 CZN 814, and there does the second one as 2025 C VR 814.

It says Deep Meadow Ventures LLC, but we now know it is Google.

Please go to your ballot.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir.

Quiet, please.

Quiet, please.

Last warning.

Quiet, please.

Nancy, please continue.

Twenty twenty-five C V R eight one four Deep Metal Ventures L L C there again were nine ballots cast, nine in approval, one denial.

This petition is also been approved.

This petition has been denied.

I mean, been approved.

He got me so nervous.

Okay, thank you.

Let me stay for the record.

Twenty twenty-five C Z eight fourteen passed eight to one.

Twenty twenty-five C VR eight fourteen passed eight to one.

This concludes our hearing.

You may quietly leave so we can continue our business.

Do not vote for them.

It's not about party anymore.

Do not vote for them.

The only way to change anything is to vote them out.

Sir, have a nice day.

And not one why it should be built.

Talk about how it could be built.

Thank you for listening to us at all.

Everyone admitted the process was horrible from the beginning.

The one who said it's okay.

And there's no punishment for that.

If you did it wrong from the beginning, start over and give us the turn.

Unbelievable.

So he could go right as I say.

Yeah, there's two button.

I was expecting this guy to do that.

So this happened.

That was on the words.

So it may be like that.

That's like the path.

I had a meeting with uh oh, that was good for black opposition now.

Black open then someone here is that was that and my one that's the committee.

I don't know what that is.

I'm just phones.

Can we call you man?

Right, Mary.

No.

Yep.

Thank you.

I'm calling you business.

Yeah, this right.

Oh, yeah, the same one is Tim's back there, yeah.

Huh?

Excuse me?

Come on, man.

No, man.

Yeah.

Do you know how much of a hassle it would be to lose the phone?

Oh man.

I didn't know.

Three days.

It was horrible.

I lost my phone for three hours.

I ran over mine.

Set it on time.

Walk in Middle Feet.

It's still a little bit more.

It's just the chip.

Yeah, it still was raining, you know.

What's your car?

Mm-hmm.

What color?

That's very good.

Yeah, we ran at one of the meetings.

What were we at?

At uh technique.

He first met us to be in Rocket.

Yeah, yeah.

Did you beat Samper?

Uh uh.

Yeah.

Good.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's been that's had us all blown up.

That's kind of yeah.

Is he responsible for the like?

You know, like today he got real agitated and swung his leg up no more.

That's why they rule uh so you would get that much.

But it was severe supremacle hemorrhages.

And it's too good at the students running out of school.

They didn't have to shave this whole gate, they just shaved straight down the back and over took the trade streams.

It's when he walked in.

He walked in there.

He went later.

So he felt the hospital in the report.

He percepted.

He was overnight.

Once overnight.

And Saturday an emergency all day.

Could have put the forgotten.

Could have put it for Q and the East as they may not go back to I've got some days after this time we would think that to unroll the city.

And it had to be before the Sunday Sunday morning because you went to dinner with family and school.

Most restaurants are still there in the summertime.

Other than Nick's Chili Barlow.

Our girl wants to die.

No, that's not actually.

Yeah, it's a good place.

Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

So we can do the church.

That's what they need.

Um Microsoft's not on the work.

So we can stay all the time.

How much time do we have?

We have 15 to start.

Uh I'm an advisor to the church.

Um you'd be an alcoholic.

Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to continue with our hearings.

We have one left on the agenda.

Nancy, can you read agenda item 18 into the record?

Yes, thank you, President Dillon.

Our last set of petitions are companion petitions transferred from the hearing examiner for initial hearing.

2025 CZN 828, 2nd Amended, and 2025 C VR 828, 2nd Amended 1927, 1946, and 1950 East 32nd Street and 3219 Archard Avenue, Center Township, Council District 8.

It is zone D5 and SU 1, Universal Church of Truth and First Barn, Incorporated by Justin King and David Kingan, requesting rezoning of 1.02 acres from the D5 and D5 district to the D eight district to provide for multiple family dwellings.

Variance of use and development standards and consolidated zoning subdivision orders to provide for construction of a medium apartment building and community center at 1927 East 32nd Street with SU 1 district not permitted to allow for a mixed use multifamily housing project, community center, and religious use use church to have 38 off-street parking spaces, 77 off-street parking spaces required, provide for the construction of five duplexes, four over floor with a floor area of 500 square feet, minimum floor area of 660 square feet required to provide for the construction of duplexes of 1946 East 32nd Street and 3219 Archard Avenue with a reduced open space.

Well, all those continuing to testify on these two petitions this afternoon, either for or against, please stand now to be identified.

Please raise your right hands.

Do you swear or affirm on the pennies approaching to tell the truth or nothing but the two say I do?

I do.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Let me walk you through the rules of engagement.

You have a very large group here with the petitioners.

You get 15 minutes.

We'll go to staff.

After staff's done, we'll come back to you for five minutes of rebuttal.

And then we'll go to a vote.

So you're on the clock.

Just be if everybody's gonna speak, just be conscious you only get a total of 20 minutes.

Sure.

Thank you.

Please introduce yourself and your address.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

My name is Justin Kingan.

Address is 618 East Market Street, Indianapolis, Indiana.

Uh we're here before you today to present a much needed development known as Life Village, which will be located in the Washington Park neighborhood near 32nd in Keystone.

Life Village is a permanent supportive house housing community for low-income homeless seniors.

It will provide 42 units across four parcels in the form of duplexes, triplexes, a studio apartment building, along with a community service facility that will serve the Life Village residents.

This reflects many months of collaboration and community engagement.

The Horizon House will serve as the lead supported services provider.

These services include but are not limited to job and financial training, food pantry, Medicaid services, mental and physical health services.

So providing these services to the 42 residential units allow this to function as operationally as a unified community.

This is more than just housing units.

Before you today, we have two petitions.

The second portion of the variance petition would allow for smaller footprints of the duplexes.

Giving our demographic, we feel that that is appropriate.

So we're requesting that that uh variance standard, and then a reduction to the parking requirement, giving again our unique demographics of our residents.

Staff has requested two commitments, which we are agreeable to and are fully prepared to meet.

In addition to that, we may offer one more that says in some type of language that we would be willing to work with the city's architect so that this development was designed in a way that that suits the community needs and the vision of the city as well.

So, in closing, the Life Village is a is a people first and community first solution to address homelessness among our senior citizens.

It's a high quality housing and strong community services are being offered on the site.

We respectfully ask for the approval of the rezone and variance petitions along with the staff requested commitments so that we can deliver a much needed community resource.

Thank you for the time.

Any other petitioners gonna speak?

Yes, sir.

Please introduce yourself and your address.

Yes, I am Bishop Anthony Boyd, Senior Pastor of Universal Church of Truth, 6241 Sycamore Drive here in Indianapolis.

Bishop, welcome.

Thank you very much.

Yes.

This is a more than just a vision.

This is something that we have proposed to do for many years at our church to provide solutions to our homeless situation, especially for our seniors, uh, even veterans, those mildly handicapped.

Uh, and it's been a vision that we have begun already with our food pantries and clothing giveaways and some of our other resources through what we call Universal Housing and Viability and Universal Community Access Network because we do believe the community outreach is a major necessity in our city and especially in our area, and so we are doing our best and our purpose to address the housing situation with Life Village.

Hello, President Dillon.

Sir, please introduce yourself and your address.

Okay, my name is Keith Collins.

I am um co-founder and president of development for Collins Housing Solutions.

And my address is 825 Balboa Avenue, Capitola, California, 95010.

All right.

Hi, as I said, I am um co-developing this project, Collins Housing Solutions with Radiant.

Uh our company has over 20 years of experience doing affordable housing projects, um, supportive housing development and uh supportive services for vulnerable populations such as uh veterans, homeless seniors, uh, and others that would be affected by this type of a program.

Again, we are co-partnering with Radiant uh and some other partners.

We have great community support on this project from leaders like President Osili, um Senator Porter, uh the East Side Neighborhood Group, um, Greg Garrett, who is the interim executive director of the United Northeast Community Development.

I think you all have letters of support for that project as well.

Um again, I would like to reemphasize what was said earlier about the services here at this project.

Um we will be having financial literacy courses, um let's see, the food pantry, clothing pantry, substance use, disorder classes, um, and other activities.

Uh, we partner with Indiana Patients and Indiana Fever for tickets and other outing events that they would have that our residents could attend as well.

And then just the last thing I'd like to emphasize is just the need of how important this project is with the city.

I know one of the big issues now is homelessness, homelessness, particularly with the seniors.

Um, we have currently partnered with the Indiana um with the city uh and talked to their homeless initiative director and found out there's over 150 seniors currently that are homeless that are in needing of of housing just like ours.

We also currently partner with the city right now on the St.

George project, which uh gets homeless people, individuals off the streets and in transitional housing as they're out trying to search and find suitable permanent housing.

And right now we have 52 residents in that program.

Out of those 52, 50 of those are seniors that would qualify for this program.

So I just really want to emphasize the need of such a program.

Um, and we really hope you would support this type of program.

We also do acknowledge that there's some technical issues that the staffing would bring up, and we'd be willing to work with those uh individuals and uh their architects or whatever to get that up to speed.

But we just really been working on this project for over three years and um worked with the ICDA.

We went to Affordable Housing Institute as well on this project, and they support us and they've given us letters of support as well.

Thank you, Keith.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

Please introduce yourself and your address.

Good afternoon.

My name is David Gerton.

I live at 529 East Georgia Street here in Indianapolis, 462.

Chairman Dillon, it's good to see you.

Counselors, good to see you.

And I'm on honor, I'm honored to be here.

Well, what's happening here is about three years ago.

I I I worked for an investment firm, Blaylock Van, with the oldest minority on investment bank in the country.

Um my dad was a minister, a pastor many years, Dr.

Yerton.

And I I visited a church service at Universal Church approximately three years ago for a black history program, and Mayor Hoxett was there, and the mayor was talking about the infrastructure uh improvements that the city has done streets, roads, and sewers right in front of Universal Church.

But we were, I didn't say I didn't mean to say we, but the city wasn't able to do uh a housing transaction for the church.

And I said, hey man, I told I said the mayor and I told the bishop maybe I can I can see what I could do to assist and putting it put putting together a deal that made sense uh not knowing that the tr this particular transaction will be too small for my current employer, which is Blaylock.

So man, uh, you know, right at church three years ago at the Black History Program, I said, hey bitch, I'm gonna make this happen some kind of way, and that was three years ago.

I think the mayor had been going to these services for over five years at this church.

So what I did was I called Keith Collins, and I said, Man, I need your help.

Just I need your expertise in trying to figure out uh, you know, to put together a deck or uh to to do housing, affordable housing for this this church has been there over 71 years.

And then Keith introduced me to Dwayne at Radiant, and quite honestly, guys, that's how that's how the transaction that that was the genesis of it, and that was over three years ago.

So now, like the guys have said, we have support from you know from President Osili and Councillor Gibson and some other folk at the state, and we all know uh the importance of and not not only in Indianapolis, but everywhere, the importance of affordable housing, especially for a certain populations.

So I think that's all I'm supposed to do.

Uh and we really, really, man, we'd appreciate your support.

Uh thank you so much.

Thank you for being here.

Sir, introduce yourself and your address.

I'm Dwayne Dwayne Miller.

I'm with Radiant Communities Development Corporation at 1145 North Pennsylvania.

And uh just we want to respect the staff.

Um definitely what they uh are working with us on, and so we're very open to that to the neighborhood standards being upheld.

Uh, you know, we do have the city, the uh Department of Metropolitan Development working with us through uh either the home uh Radiance uh Cho, which is a certified housing community development corporation with HUD, and so we uh we have a certain standard and quality on our board that that does affordable housing uh in many different communities.

So this isn't just another apartment community, this is uh permanent supportive housing.

I've been in the in the uh community development professional for 33 years.

I started with uh CDC on the near east side of Indianapolis, worked there for about eight years, and then was the president of Flarid and Collins in their in their development for for 20.

I started Radiant Communities back in 2019 just to try to impact and just actually help the faith-based community rebrand themselves to actually, you know, through COVID and through other things to how how can you actually impact your community in a positive way?

So to leverage housing is a great way to invest in people.

So I've done over a hundred projects myself and in in and around Indiana, uh, been in it for a while, used about a million, uh a billion one uh one six uh capital stack trying to help uh communities transform and to build the asset of that area.

So I always say it's two things.

You're building up upside down properties, uh vacant land, you know, maybe it's vacant buildings, but then you're also doing it with a special population.

The community service facility in this in this uh situation will be uh a place that's open to the community where services can uh can be had.

The community service facility in this in this uh situation will be uh a place that's open to the community where services can uh can be had, but it's a walkable idea where you actually have the services there that will help the residents but also help build the community as as well.

So I think we can overcome uh as much as is possible.

Uh and uh and and you know I've done this, I probably have done eight out of the hundred uh permanent supportive housing actually I'm building right now in Plainfield and in Munsey, we're gonna do uh uh homeless housing as well.

So our team went through the institute with the Indian Housing Community Development Corporation with CSH out of Chicago, the community support of housing, and so they uh we graduated from them of how to how to have a high quality management services, a holistic approach, and so we've passed and we're in a set aside, and that's where we were rushing with the city uh actually on the zoning uh to get it into a tax credit round uh because I think the time is now, it's not tomorrow, and uh to try to meet that need.

So after doing this many many years to actually have a a group of uh members from the church, even that want to pour out and help out in in ways I just think the the synergies are perfect for this area for this time, and uh so that's what we're presenting to you all, and thanks for uh listening to us.

Thank you.

Any other petitioners?

Once again, are there any remonstrators here?

Seeing none, staff.

You say come forward for remonstrators, yes, ma'am.

Are you a remonstrator?

Yes, you're against the project.

Yes, go.

Can you introduce yourself and your address?

Uh my name is Gladys Whitfield, and I own property at 3157 Orchard Avenue, and this is my husband Herman.

Welcome.

Were you duly sworn?

No, I wasn't.

Well, I took the oath when she just administered it.

That's what we need to know.

Okay, I raised my hand.

I said I will.

Okay.

You're up here.

Okay.

So I just some background about myself and the ownership of the property.

I have lived or owned property in that neighborhood since 1961.

My parents purchased their home 3157 in 1961.

They were approximately age 30, and that was the second home they had purchased.

My parents moved to the property on Orchard because they were expecting their third child, and they needed a larger home than the one in which they were living.

And so they purchased that home and also kept another home that they owned, which was on Martindale, which is now Dr.

Andrew J.

Brown, in the same general area.

And when my parents and I, I was born then, I'm the oldest.

So when my parents moved to Orcher, there were very few properties on that street.

There were, I don't know if you've seen this property or you're aware of the area, but um school 110 wasn't there.

That was not there.

Baltimore apartments, which is on 32nd of Baltimore, that was not there.

So I'm very familiar with the area area.

I have a stake in it.

Um, this person here, Margaret, she also has lived there for at least since 1972.

73.

And uh the home house where she lives, none of those homes are over there either.

So I'm very interested in the property.

When my parents passed, I acquired it.

And my daughter lives there as well.

Um I remember my mother and I walking over across the street when we called the woods, and she would dig up flowers over there.

I'd be with her.

We come back home and plant them.

So I'm very interested in what goes on there.

And so when I heard one of the people speaking for the petitioner say that it had been going on for three years, I was really appalled because no one's talked to us.

And I think that there are when I glanced over, I haven't had a lot of time when I glanced over the documents.

It seems that we should have been consulted and talked to, and uh our concerns should have been addressed.

And when I was listening to the discussion of the the Google petition, and I saw how the Google company and their attorneys and so forth had worked together at least to try to come up with different ways to address the community's concern.

That didn't happen with us.

And so the first time I really heard anything was when a member of the church, Mr.

Dennis Hayes, I don't know if he's here, but he approached me about buying my property.

And he said that they were building low-income homes.

They were building homes for sale.

This was about maybe a month ago.

And so I said, for sale, he said, yeah, and he said I can build um a unit here as well.

And so I thought, oh, that's interesting.

I said, who's the architect?

And so forth.

And so I didn't hear any more from him.

So not only were we uninformed, but we were misinformed, because then I got information that said it was housing for rent, which we don't have a problem with that.

But the that we were not included in any discussions, consulted about our concerns or suggestions for how the property could be constructed and developed and the uh integrated into the community and so forth, that did not occur.

And also I heard that this matter was fast tracked to get directly before you all based upon assertions made that the neighborhood was in support of that.

It's not true, not in support of it as it currently is being planned.

And so I saw their proposed findings of fact, and I also contacted uh Mr.

King, and um I don't understand these findings of fact.

I don't understand what they're based upon.

As I said, we haven't been talked to.

Um the petitioner has not proven or shown that the grant will not be injurious to the public health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the community.

They have not proven that the use and value of the area adjacent to the property included in the variance will not be affected in a substantially adverse manner.

They haven't proven that the need for the variance arises from some condition peculiar to the property involved.

They have not proven that the strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance constitutes an unusual and unnecessary hardship if applied.

So I ask that this matter, instead of being fact fast-tracked or expedited to be here hear her before this body, that it be sent back, and the normal course of proceedings occur.

And I don't know, Margaret, did you want to say something?

Yes, my name is Margaret McCarthy.

I live at 3142 or Chid Avenue.

Hello, Margaret.

Huh?

I've been there ever since I was 25 years old.

I am 74 now, I think.

Anyway, anyway, I have a concern about the matter, and the only thing I know about what's going on is what I heard today, and what my neighbor told me.

And I've asked other neighbors, no one's heard of anything.

We said, well, they're supposed someone said they're supposed to uh build housing for once to buy homes and live in them.

Then someone else said that, well, they told them that they were building a nursing home.

And I'm like, a nursing home.

I'm like, no one said anything.

And then uh we heard something, I think then you um she sent an email to someone, and they said that the um neighborhood was uh in favor of it.

We were all for it, but we can't be all for something that we never heard of.

So we don't know what's going on, and we would like to be informed of what's going on in our neighborhood.

And what I hear today, they said that uh that is supposed to be at least like 600 feet of a unit, I mean square feet for a unit, and they were gonna make it five.

So it seems like to me they're trying to squeeze people in a little small area.

Well, that's not good, and it doesn't help us with our mental help and or anything else.

I have concerns with that, of squeezing a bunch of people in small areas.

Uh it's not good for us.

We all want to have a place to live.

And I want everyone to have a place to live.

I mean, I have concerns for people and and concerns for what's going on in the world today.

But you know, just throwing, you know, putting up things and throwing people anywhere is not it's not kosher.

And we really shouldn't do things like that.

We should make sure once have a proper home to live in.

And to squeeze them in something that's way smaller is really not good.

And then also he's talking about the parking.

They said that they only had 38 parking places, spots for them, and they needed at least 7.

It's almost double.

Where are the people gonna park?

We live near schools.

Children are walking down sidewalks and everything where they're parking on the street is gonna cause a major hazard.

We have a long uh street that through street from 30th Street to 46th Street, and that car speed, we need speed bumps already.

For years we have been needing speed bumps in that area.

We've had children that get hit by cars on their street and killed.

I've seen it.

I've seen it.

And now they have sidewalks and everything that you can walk on.

But the thing about it, if you have parking here and parking there, where are they gonna park on the sidewalk?

It doesn't seem it seems like they're trying to really cram everything in just to have what they want or what they're saying.

The one gentleman said that uh that they wanted to uh he said that he think that there'd be good help for the community and the resident, what kind of help is that?

How's it gonna benefit us?

Having something like that is not benefiting me.

If I can't pull out of my driveway without a lot of traffic, more traffic than what we already have.

How do children gonna be safe?

I'll watch out my window and everything just to make sure kids get get through sometimes.

Stop running, children.

I've said that to some children, but the thing about it is um he said that they had technical issues that uh right now, but they didn't say what the technical issues were.

That's what one of the gentlemen said.

Um I don't know what the technical issue is.

So if they have technical issues, what are they?

What are they?

And then so now they're talking about rezoning.

Well, I just think that there should be no rezoning, not right now, just to make things fit for them.

We could just can't fit people in just like I can't.

I don't I don't have clothes to fit me.

I have to make sure I'm I'm down to where I can fit the clothes.

We're not gonna try to take uh a house and squeeze one in and try to make it fit.

So I just have some concerns on that matter.

But one of the main things is most of the people, none of the people, only people that know anything about this project are the people that they wanted to buy the property, and I only know two, two people in the neighborhood that knows anything about it other than what we are hearing hearsay from one another.

Thanks, Margaret.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

And I just want to say about the the parking um and people being, you know, we say homeless, but really, you know, we don't have to attach homeless to that person's personhood.

The person may be unhoused at the time, and they may not own a vehicle at the time, but that you know I don't have such low aspirations for people to think that just because they may have low income that they won't ever be able to purchase or own a vehicle.

So to say here, which I saw in this paperwork that some population only only 10% usually own a vehicle.

First of all, what population are they talking about?

Because no one's living in the in these apartments yet, so I don't know how they can extrapolate that only 10% of people would own a vehicle.

But people sometimes they have cars, sometimes they don't.

Uh 38 parking spaces is woefully inadequate, and I you know, I ask that the as I said that the uh matter be taken off this fast track and sent back to be heard for information to be gathered and for discussions to be had.

I was just, you know, this as I said, listening to Google and all the back and forth and the discussions they've had, and they have had none of that with us.

And so I ask either that it be taken off this fast track, which I think is the most appropriate thing to do in the circumstances, or a request for continuance.

You want to say something?

Hi, please introduce yourself and your address.

Hi, I'm Jacqueline Richards.

I live at the property at 3157 Orchard Avenue.

This is my mother.

And I just want to basically say that I have the same concerns as both Margaret and my mother.

Oh I have the same concerns with both Margaret and my mother, Gladys Whitfield.

The fact that they haven't approached us to give any additional information regarding the property they want to erect is concerning.

And also the parking.

When they have funerals at the church, you can barely get in and out of the driveway or up and down the street, 32nd Street or Orchard.

It's extremely packed, and I don't understand how they're going to work out the parking or what they're going to do with the parking.

That's the that's the big issue for me as well.

Thank you.

Gladys, we'll ask you back for rebuttal for five minutes.

If I could get the remonstrators to sit over here, it'd help it would help me keep everything organized.

I appreciate it.

Staff.

Thank you.

Excuse me, thank you, President Dillon.

Members of the commission.

As has been presented to you, this includes two requests.

One is the rezoning request and one is the variance request.

The variance requests is actually four individual requests.

This proposal is generally consistent with the comprehensive plan.

However, there are a couple of associated documents.

One is the pattern book, and as you know, the pattern book is a companion book with a comprehensive plan.

And what that pattern book does is it provides guides and recommendations for orderly development, protects the character of the neighborhoods, and while being flexible to allow redevelopment.

The in-fill housing guidelines are guiding principles for new construction so that anything coming in is going to coexist appropriately with those adjacent homes, the blocks, and that existing neighborhood.

What they're proposing are duplexes, triplexes, and a multi-family dwelling.

None of those typologies are really consistent with this neighborhood.

Staff believes because of that, it would not be it would have an impact and a negative impact on that neighborhood.

That is again single-story houses.

The multifamily structure, staff believes, would introduce a structure that is a mass that would not be compatible.

It's a three-story building.

It's associated on the church property, or it will be built on the church property.

But again, that housing type, you will not find that in the neighborhood.

But those apartments were constructed as communities apartments.

What we see here are three type.

We have three basic sites with this request.

They're not connected and they're not contiguous.

So you will have duplexes that are located on orchard.

You will have single family along 32nd Street.

You'll also have that multifamily along 32nd Street.

And then on Nichols, you'll have triplexes.

None of those typologies exist in this neighborhood today.

And there are some design recommendations for that walkable neighborhood.

And again, it it is providing services that the neighborhood can walk to.

Yes, they are providing services for their residents, but what impact is that going to have on this neighborhood?

The staff again believes that the rezoning to a D8 would not be appropriate in this case.

There is, as Mr.

Keenan indicated, there are two commitments the staff is requesting.

One is to keep the the properties trash-free and well maintained, and then the other one is there's there are some trees, and staff is asking for a tree inventory and a preservation plan, and they have agreed to that.

Moving on to the variance of uh there are the variances.

The one is the use.

The use variance is uh required because a three-story apartment building would not be permitted in this neighborhood, and it's part of the church as has been described.

Again, we're looking at a neighborhood that has one-story detached single-family dwellings, and we're bringing in a three-story apartment building.

The second variance relates to the parking.

That's already been discussed.

That's they're asking for an over 50% decrease in the amount of parking.

The concern with that is that when this is rezoned, the use that they are describing may or may not continue.

So if the population of these buildings change, there may be a need for more parking, and the neighbors have already expressed concerns about that.

Staff, there is an option to have reduced parking, but none of that information has been submitted.

One of the remonstrators also talked about the reduction in the floor area.

The ordinance requires 660 square feet, and they're asking 500.

And I think the remonstrator made some very strong arguments that against that reduction.

Again, staff is not supportive of that.

The last request is a reduced open space for the two duplexes and the triplexes.

We all know how important open space is, and they are not able to meet that open space.

So staff is concerned about that.

Staff is also concerned about the lack of connection between these three types of housing.

Yes, there are sidewalks on the street, but as far as connection between these developments, they do not exist.

Staff does support density, but in this case, staff believes this is intense over development, and because of the need for the reduced parking, the reduced floor area, and the open space.

Again, staff is recommending denial of both of these requests and would be glad to answer any questions that you might have.

Questions for staff?

I have some questions, President Dillon.

Yes.

So I'm looking at the site plan.

I think I've identified up at the northeast quadrant, the five proposed duplexes.

Then just north of that what is that?

Those are triplexes.

And how many are there?

There are two of them.

So two triplexes, so six units.

Yes.

Okay, and then the duplexes are ten units.

Right.

Right?

Uh-huh.

Okay, and then to the west.

Those are duplexes.

And there are two of them.

And what they're that what they have explained is that they're not your typical duplex, but they're flats, so you'll have one unit on the first floor, and then they're not a side-by-side double, they're an up-and-down duplex.

Yes.

And so then that's two duplexes over there.

To the west.

Yes.

Okay.

So that's four more units.

Right?

Yes.

Okay.

And then to the south.

On the west, what are those structures?

Are you okay?

South of 32nd Street.

That is where the oh that that is not part of this is this?

Yes.

What is that?

That is the existing church, and they would be constructing the three-story apartment building.

I think there are between 22 and 26 units that are being proposed there.

In addition, south of that, there you will see that there is a building that they are proposing for a community center.

Okay.

So a total of about 44 residential units?

Yes.

Plus a community center.

Yes.

Okay.

And they're wanting a reduction of the park requirement for all of that down to 38.

Yes.

Okay.

And then there went in a variance on all of the unit sizes to allow for units down to 500 square feet.

Yes.

Okay.

Um, I think that's it for well.

Did you get this?

Yes.

I don't understand what this is.

Uh I don't either.

You would have to ask the the petitioner.

I mean it these streets don't even look like Indianapolis streets, so I'll ask them.

Uh I believe, based upon what I see that they were trying to make an argument that there was not a need for the parking, because if you look at Yes, it is not this.

I'll ask the petitioner.

Yeah, that's for staff.

Yes.

Commissioner Garber.

Kathleen, why like we put out signs, right?

Like the orange signs when something's happening.

Do you contact the neighbors as well?

Or just the neighborhood associations?

Well, I would say the rules of procedure require that property owners, two property owners deep from each of these sites, or 660 feet, whichever is lesser, wouldn't need to be notified in addition to the neighborhood organizations.

And then there are some other organizations, schools that would also be notified in the the counselor for the district, yes.

Okay, so these people probably just didn't live close enough.

They probably did not live close enough, yes.

Okay.

Um more for you.

Final questions for staff.

Go ahead.

I had a question.

I think there was something raised about uh lack of cohesion between the units on the site.

Uh can you explain more about that?

Like a connectivity, I think you would used.

Yes.

If you will look on page 108 in the staff report, this is actually a combination of three separate sites.

Um there is the staff believe there is not really an appropriate connection between each of these different types of development.

You'll see on the north of 32nd Street, you have um you've got the two parcel numbers.

That's actually I think five total parcel numbers involved with this rezoning.

That's separate, that's separated by 32nd Street to the church that's there on the south side, and there is no connection unless you would go on the street on the sidewalks to that what I'll call the northwest, its address is 3219 Orchard Avenue.

So staff believes they're disjointed, and in order for this to be successful, staff believes that there needs to be some kind of connection between each of these uses.

Thank you.

Back to the petitioner, you have five minutes for rebuttal.

Gladys, I'll come back to you for five minutes after they're done.

Thank you.

And I'd like to address the handout, and I apologize that it might have been caused some confusion.

Uh what we attempted to do, that first picture that you see there that shows East 25th Street is an aerial of a senior community that's seven blocks south of this that was developed by these partners as well.

What we were attempting to point out was that there are 70 units in this development.

If you count up the number of automobiles that are in the parking lot, there are 28 autos.

Um the subsequent pages have other developments that these partners have developed over the years, and you can see that the lack of autos that are exist on the site on these sites because of the demographics, we believe justify the reduction in the parking.

Um again, this is this development is for extremely low-income seniors, many of who have no vehicle.

Uh data shows that similar permanent supportive housing.

Um occupy 10 percent of the parking, or those have 10 percent of the autos.

Um specifically to our site, there are 36 on-site parking spaces.

In addition to that, there are 19 on-street parking spaces, which in accordance to the zoning code, you can can you can add that to uh the required the amount of required parking spaces.

So therefore, we'd be providing a total of 55 54, or I'm sorry, 55 parking spaces in totality.

In addition to that, one thing that we have not yet brought up is that we will be having a 22-passenger van that will be on site to transport these residents to a variety of services within the community, whether it be to grocery shop or go to the pharmacy, um myriad of activities they can use that for.

Also, this site is located within uh one block of two indigo bus stops, ensuring that there's strong strong transit access as well.

Uh if you go a little bit deeper in the handout, we printed off or uh added some photos of other sites within the uh immediate area that have similar heights and different types of topologies.

Um you'll see on the first picture there's a church.

This this photo's looking directly southeast from our site to the church that's there on Baltimore Avenue.

Uh the second photo contains connected um two and a half story apartment buildings that are one block east of our sites.

Um third picture is that that same development as well.

There's another church that's uh the point being is that there's a variety, there's not just yes, there's a lot of single family homes that are one story in the area, but there's also a variety of type typologies, heights, and massing in the area.

Um I think Duane, do you want to speak to the um square footage issue, please?

Yeah, again, I'm I'm Dwayne Miller.

Um we we do have efficiencies in that in the in the three-story building that we were talking on site.

We're demoing uh the front part of the church, and that's where it would replace that same height, that same uh that same spot.

But to the to the point of smaller units, we're trying to build community in a lot of this space.

You do have community rooms, you do have community space, you do have televisions, you do have the community service facility where programming will go on, where you want to make sure that that type of relationship and interconnection is happening.

I also have 88-year-old parents that live with us, and we're always trying to get them out and socialize.

And so food, a kitchen, things of that in the in the community service facility is is important.

So if you look at other units that we have that are in the duplexes, then triplexes in the other single units.

I mean, they're range from 756 to 868 square feet.

So I mean it they they're they're fairly large units for one bedrooms and uh and and and two bedroom uh units.

So anyways, one thought that we really remind you of is uh the church actually owns all this property right now, and we're trying to build a campus.

So there's this campus idea in mindset that we're building a community, it's not an individual living by themselves somewhere else.

We really want the community to be a place where they can uh interact and and have a relationship with each other.

So anyway, we'll have on-site services, we'll we'll definitely have uh the 24 passenger van.

We also manage just seven blocks up the road, hope, hopeside community.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Questions for final questions for the petitioner?

I have a few present dilling.

So I just want to understand that this is a scattered site LITEC project, is that correct?

Yeah, I hesitate to agree with the term scattered, but they're not contiguous sites, that is correct.

But they're but they're pretty much within a one city block radius.

You're putting an application for low-income housing tax credits.

That's that's uh the genesis behind why we were asking this these two petitions to be faster actually.

When is the deadline?

Uh best of my knowledge, the end of this month.

And um, what is this set aside?

Are these 30, 40, 50, 60 percent units?

Are these all 60?

There's actually three set asides.

One is uh homeless.

Yeah.

Uh the second one is just uh supportive housing, and then it's senior, a senior set aside, uh homeless set aside, and then we're in a small setting.

But it's 60 percent AMI, so the range goes from 60 percent AMI down to 30 percent.

Yeah, so you're 30 to 60.

Yeah, we're actually 50 percent and less.

It's half 50, half 30.

Okay, so you're set aside 50 and 30 for the income level.

That's correct.

Okay.

And then when you say it's senior housing, is it the 62 and over only, or is it it's 50, it's 55.

If we so under the HUD rules, 20 percent of the units could be non-55 seniors.

That's correct from that specific IRS.

And then residents within any unit could be non-seniors, they could be any age, uh, although maybe you'll have a cutoff of 18 or over or something.

Yeah, we marketing-wise, we won't have that at all, it'll all be 55 percent.

Yeah, but I mean but it I think you could have the 20 percent, but I think it's more of a disabled uh individual.

And then can you speak to what staff raised?

Um you're going for the set-aside and the application, but uh this may not always be supportive senior housing because that's that's not like a covenant that runs with the land.

It is a choice.

It will be a covenant that runs with the land, it's with the permanent support of housing uh and and it will run 60 years.

Okay.

So you usually when you submit, you're submitting.

Who is that a covenant with?

That's with the Indiana Housing Community Development Corporation.

Okay, and we do have we do have city, the community development uh did award this project if we got funded by the stuff the state 750,000, which the home dollars would also be a part of the regulation and also would have uh that as a as a lien restriction as well.

Who is providing those supportive services?

Who's providing the supportive services of Verizon uh house and then Keith?

Horizon House.

Horizon House, yeah.

And who just reached recently merged with Goodwill?

Yeah.

And then I hear Heron is the property manager.

Yeah, uh Jill Heron is property manager who's done a lot of uh affordable housing.

And who's your investor or partner on the tax credits?

We haven't, I mean, we're we haven't been awarded yet, but merchants bank is is one that definitely is our um sponsor for Radiant.

Yeah.

Yeah, they get first right uh to look at all our opportunities.

All right, thank you.

Keith, did you have something to say or I just wanted to just quickly address the neighborhood question too?

And I apologize that you guys were not um informed of that, and we would love to talk to you about it.

But we reached out to the United Northeast uh community development center um along with Ron Gibson's office and President Osley's office, and they um put us in touch and we had meetings with the neighborhood groups, and that's the letter of support that we got from the neighborhood groups, and there's about 25 to 30 residents that attended that, and we did take their suggestions.

Um part of that was committee room and what suggest uh what services were going to be involved.

So I just want to say that we did um reach out to residents on that.

Thank you, Keith.

Uh thank you.

Final questions for the petitioner.

Yes, sir.

You got one?

Yes, sir.

Go.

So I'm seeing a request for smaller units square footage wise, more density than currently permitted, fewer number of parking spaces, and shorter open space as well for the residents.

Is that correct, staff?

Yes.

Excuse me, yes, it is.

Okay.

I'll just make sure that we have the right number of requests for the variants here.

Uh-huh.

Commissioner, are you good?

Yes.

Everybody good.

Gladys.

Do you have five minutes?

And Margaret, you have five minutes.

You guys are tagged team.

As I stated previously, this matter was fast-tracked, and I'm asking that the normal routine where the um this matter is heard and there's a more of a chance for the evidence to be developed and for us to have a meaningful conversation and discourse about this uh this development and not, you know, there's not enough time.

We haven't had enough time, we don't have enough information to really present, you know, a good case about why we think that some of the things that are included in this housing project are um not appropriate.

And in addition to the fact that you know, there's a reason why the city has this ordinance about the size of a unit.

And I think that shouldn't be lost here.

We don't need to cram people into smaller units because they may not have enough money to get a bigger place, and it's again the same as for housing.

I mean, or for the parking.

Just because someone doesn't have a car at the time doesn't mean that they don't aspire to have a car and will never have a car.

Also, um I I saw in the documents that they say that the bus stop is one block away.

That's not accurate.

The project is on 32nd Street, and the if you go to 34th Street, there's a there's a uh bus stop that's two blocks, or you can go to 30 30th Street, that's two blocks.

I'm not sure whether one block is coming in, and I'm not sure how important that is, but it just keeps being said and it's not accurate.

Um again, what staff has said is about the uh multi-story unit not being consistent with the character of the neighborhood, which we are all one story uh homes with decent lots.

Um decent sized lots, rather.

Um course I I'm in agreement with what staff has said.

Um, you know, when the church has funerals and church services, they do park on the street, and it's very crowded on both sides of the street, and it's it's a safety hazard.

Yeah.

Um, I have lots of things I could say, but as I said, I did get notice of the hearing, but as far as this project being in development three years and so forth, it's appalling that we weren't consulted or talked to about that.

You know, homeowners they strengthen the fabric of the community.

You know, we've been there because that I'm when I was five, my parents bought that house, and I still own it, and then uh Margaret bought her house new in 73, and there are other homeowners there who have an interest even you know it's silent, you know, as I heard someone say during the Google uh hearing, silent support.

So to come in and thrust this huge development, which is inconsistent with the character of the community, fast-tracked it to get before the this commission, and did not involve us in any of the um development.

We had lots of things that maybe we could have said if we had been informed or invited, just as I heard with the Google group.

I was like, wow, at least they got to talk to one another, even though um the remonstrators didn't get what they want.

They have been in this well, they did get some of what they want because they got some of the um commitments.

So as I said, I would like for this to go back and be heard the normal course of procedure, not fast-tracked or expedited to get before this body.

Thank you.

Okay, Margaret.

Margaret.

Okay, yes, again.

I I I I know the um that they said that it was for us elderly, elderly uh ones that were homeless and everything.

I I myself every week, at least two or three times a week, are there with elderly ones in nursing homes.

So they have a home, and some are um low income, most of them are.

But I go and I talk to them, I show videos, play songs with them and everything.

So I do have compassion and for ones that don't have a place, but I still they're in nursing homes, but even their rooms are small, but they can go into the dining area.

They have other recreational areas for them to sit and talk to visit.

They even have um things uh out on the grams where you can go like in a little flower garden to go out.

So when he said that he has an 88-year-old mother that's at home, they're trying to get her to go out and to for recreation.

Well, she can go out for recreation.

But these ones are in a small place.

Margaret, that nasty light came on, which means you're out of time.

I just did.

I did okay.

Well, you guys only get five minutes together, together.

Oh, we know that together forever.

Well, anyway, thank you.

But thank you, Margaret.

But but then the eighteen year olds, they said it might be lower than the elderly.

That's another concern.

So that's something else that was kept out of the situation.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

Gladys, I I gotta make one point.

Okay.

This hearing was supposed to be July second.

It got kicked to July sixteenth.

Then it got kicked.

Okay.

To today.

So it's been going on for a while.

So we're gonna vote it today and see where we're at.

Just so you know, this thing's been going on.

So we got it.

We have to address it.

I'm never I didn't ask for a continuance.

I I don't know who did what or who didn't.

Don't I get an automatic continuance above?

No, you don't.

It's already been taken.

So we're gonna voted today, but I just want to let you know that's gone through those phases.

Through what phases?

Through the through the the hearings being pushed out and out.

But what I'm saying.

So it wasn't fast tracked, is my point.

It wasn't fast tracked to get to this level.

I thought that there was another level in between where the questions could be addressed by a different body.

By hearing officer, I don't know if the hearing officer heard it or not, but it came to No Hearing Officer didn't hear it.

They come to the hearing officer.

It was put here to request it.

It was fast tracked.

It came, it came to us.

You're right about that, Glass.

You're correct.

All right, thank you, everybody.

Members of the commission, we have two ballots.

Uh one ballot CZN eight two eight is for the zoning.

C V R eight two eight is for the variance.

Please mark it as amended.

Please mark your ballots.

A yes passes the petition, a no defeats the petition.

Okay, so it's up.

Twenty twenty-five CZN eight two eight, second amended Universal Church of Truth and Firstborn.

There were nine ballots cast.

There were five ballots.

Um yes, and three ballots no cast.

So that was five to three.

The the rezoning passes.

One, two, three.

Four, five.

That's why it isn't five.

Change that is six to three.

The zoning passes.

And then two, three, four.

And one, two.

Okay, some changes here.

There were again.

This is 2025.

This is a variance.

C VR 828, second amended, Universal Church of Truth and Firstborn Incorporated.

Nine ballots cast.

There were four ballots cast for the petition and five ballots cast against the variance petition.

The variance petition was denied.

So the zoning passes six to three.

Yeah.

The variance is defeated four to five.

Is that correct?

Nancy, would you check your math, please?

It's the change of the no, though, correct?

Yes.

They were altered.

So it's four to five.

It is four, yes, and five again.

That's why I was checking.

Okay.

Yeah.

Bishop.

Keith.

Can you guys come up to the podium, please?

Mr.

Developer over here.

Can you come up?

We like Gladys, Margaret, Jacqueline.

So the zoning passed, but you got an issue on the variance.

So you got to sit down with them and worked out those issues.

I have a lot of respect for you, Bishop.

Keith, I know more about you than you would think.

So would you guys please sit down and work this out and see if we can't uh make this thing smoothly move forward?

We'd appreciate it very much.

You're gonna have to check with your experts on variants getting beat and the zoning winning.

I don't know where that leaves us, but we'll we're gonna have to help staff.

Kathleen, you're gonna have to figure that out as well where that leaves them.

Yeah, I think I can do that.

I appreciate it.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right.

That concludes uh our hearing.

Can I have a motion to adjourn?

I'm very appreciative of uh everybody on the commission.

Tough day, but we got through it.

Thank you very much.