I just feel like this project was central five.

Oh, yeah.

It also means he's getting some cash in the control.

Renovate that looks like that.

The February 4th meeting of the Metropolitan Development Commission will now come to order.

And we are going to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Do any commissioners have questions, comments, or changes to the minutes?

And I know Commissioner Robinson is going to recuse herself.

Hearing none, um, can I get a motion to adopt the January 21st, 2026 meeting minutes from Commissioner Schumacher?

So moved.

And can I get a second from Commissioner West?

Second.

And we'll go through the role.

Hergett.

Hergitt, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Murphy?

Murphy, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

And Garver's a yes.

The minutes have been approved, and we will move on to special requests.

Continuances and withdrawals.

Staff would draw your attention to two petitions that are set for hearing today.

And both of them are on Madison Avenue.

It's item number sixteen.

The remonstrator of this uh when it was heard before the hearing examiner is out of town right now.

And then yesterday, staff received an email from the petitioner indicating that they will be looking for new representation and that they do need a month continuance.

So they're agreeing to that month's continuance to your meeting on March the fourth.

And that would take a motion.

Okay.

Um can I get a motion to move 2025 Z O N one two three as amended to the March 4th date?

Can I get the uh motion from Commissioner Hergett?

So moved.

And can I get a second from Commissioner Lyle?

Second.

And now the roll.

Hergett.

Hergitt, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

And Garver is a yes.

Thank you.

And then the second one is uh item number 15, 2025 MOD 024, located at 5601 and 5621 Madison Avenue and 50 1525 East Dudley Avenue.

And again, that's the same situation.

The petitioner is the same on both of these petitions, and the remonstrator was present for both of those, and so it wouldn't again need to be continued to your March 4th hearing.

Okay, great.

Um, so can I get a motion to move 2025 MOD 024 to the March 4th date from Commissioner Murphy?

So moved.

And a second from Commissioner Robinson.

Second.

And the roll is Hergett.

Hergitt, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

And Delanetti, yes.

So that has also been moved.

Anything else?

Thank you.

Acting President Garver, members of the Commission, staff would draw your attention to item number 14 as petition of no appeal, recommended for denial.

Petitions 2025 ZON 098 amended.

That that petition has been withdrawn.

We just need your acknowledgement, please.

Okay, so acknowledged.

Thank you.

There are five policy resolutions on our agenda for today, and two are um policy resolutions are up for public hearing.

So Nancy, can you read those into the record, please?

Yes, thank you.

Acting President Garver.

First is 2026 R002 authorizes the Department of Metropolitan Development to accept six surplus properties from the County Board of Commissioners.

2026 R003 authorizes the Department of Metropolitan Development to dispose of real property through the vacant to vibrant program.

2026A 004 for our public hearing.

Recommend approval of 10 years real property tax abatement.

2026 A005 for public hearing.

Resolution authorizing a hearing regarding termination of the personal property tax abasement associated with economic revitalization area resolution 2021 A033 2021, Hostess Brands LLC located at 2929 North Shayland Avenue, Council District 91 Township.

2026 P001 resolution to make various appointments by of the Metropolitan Development Commission, including the Marion County Boards of Zoning Appeals, alternate hearing examiner, hearing officers, and the Platte Committee.

This ends the reading of the resolutions.

Those are 2026 R002, 2026 R003, and 2026 P001.

Is there any discussion from the Commission on these resolutions?

Yes, acting present.

Anything else?

Seeing none, can I get a motion to approve this resolution as a group from uh Commissioner Schumacher?

So moved.

And can I get a second from Commissioner West?

Second.

And the role will be Hergett.

Hergett, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes, noting the recusal.

Yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

And Garver is a yes.

We will now move on to the policy resolutions schedule for public hearing.

Good afternoon, acting President Garver, Commissioners.

I'm Kathy Battle with the Economic Incentive team.

I'm excited to share the vision of the Winterton Redevelopment, a transformative mixed use project near North near Nora Plaza along 86th Street in Indianapolis.

The Winterton redevelopment represents over six sixty million of investment in real property to revitalize the aging Winterton office park that originally was built in 1963.

The plan calls for complete demolition of the existing structure and the creation of a vibrant residential and commercial hub.

This development will bring 250 residential apartment units, over 31,000 square feet of acting retail frontage along the 86th Street.

Um along 86th Street to enhance walkability and connect and connectivity.

Staff does recommend approval of resolution 2026 A004 for a 10-year real property tax abatement.

I am happy to report we do have an executed memorandum on file.

The company is here, and I'm going to ask a representative to come forth just to acknowledge that language.

Okay, thank you.

Yes, we were hearing it having a hearing on 2026 A004, final economic revitalization area resolution for TMC Winterton 1 LLC, located at 1010 East 86th Street and 8685 and 8699 Guilford Avenue, Council District 2, Washington Township.

Recommend approval of 10 years real property tax abatement.

Thank you.

Um the property owners.

Can you swear them in, please?

Do you swear or affirmative pennies of perjury to tell the truth and nothing but the truth?

Say I do.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good afternoon, acting President Garver, members of the Commission, Joe Calderan, 11 South Meridian, uh Indianapolis.

Uh I have been representing TMC Winterton for the past few years on this project and done a lot of projects in my day, and this one is one of the most exciting ones that I've been involved with because A had personal experience going to a dentist at Winterton from my childhood through my early adulthood, had a lot of memories there.

Um secondly, when we proposed this project uh to transform it from the office use that it is today, and it's old, uh, and in not great shape.

We were able to elicit significant support from the community.

Uh, not only Nora Northside Community Council, Councillor Delaney, we're grateful for her shepherding us and and making introductions, but also the individual neighborhoods to the north.

Um was great to get everybody on board.

So we know and we're very grateful for the opportunity for abatement to make this project work.

Uh one of the things that came up and is in the memorandum of agreement was the concept of shared appreciation, meaning that uh the city uh through the MDC redevelopment fund will share uh if this project is sold or another triggering event happens during the 10-year abatement period.

Uh so uh we were able to reach agreement on all of that uh with Kathy, and we're grateful for her uh willingness to really work on the over the last two weeks to get this done, and uh we appreciate your consideration of our abatement request.

Happy to answer any other questions you may have.

Any questions?

Seeing none, Councillor Delaney, is there anything you want to share?

Yes.

Thank you to the commission for having me up here today.

Thank you, Commissioner Garver, um, for giving me just a moment of your time.

I'm Brienne Delaney, City Councillor for District 2, representing um the project known as what we are calling the Winterton Project.

I'm here to express my strong support for the proposed mixed use development in NORA.

NORRA is a neighborhood that has been experiencing steady organic growth that reflects both market demand and the deep pride residents take and where they live.

The project builds on the momentum of the last few years of private and public investment, including the NORA shopping plaza redesign, the Monon Trail Bridge, funding awarded, bridge to come soon.

86th Street What and the 86th Street Walkability Project that DPW is working on this year.

So again, there's there's a lot of public and private investment coming to the area.

What stands out most though, and um council said this as well, is that the project aligns with the community's vision for NORA's future.

The neighbors are not only aware of the development, they're supportive of it, and it speaks to the intensive engagement that has already taken place among community members.

I believe this project represents the kind of smart community supportive development that we should be encouraging because it strengthens the tax base, enhances quality of life, and reinforces Nora as a vibrant connected place within our city.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Seeing none, uh, can I get a motion to adopt this resolution from Commissioner Hergett?

So moved.

Can I get a second from Commissioner Murphy?

Second.

Hergitt.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Robinson?

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher?

Schumacher, yes.

West.

West, yes.

And Garver is a yes.

Thank you.

Hey Nancy, you want to read in the next one?

Yes, thank you.

Acting President Garver.

Our next parti our next resolution for public hearing is 2026 A005 resolution authorizing a hearing regarding termination of the personal property tax abatement associated with economic revitalization area resolution 2021 A033.

2021.

Thank you.

Acting President Garver and members of the Commission.

I am Letitia Ramsey, compliance manager for DMD.

This resolution is a public hearing to terminate the hostess brand LLC.

The location at 2929 Shayland Avenue has closed.

Under the terms of the agreement, the city is entitled to repayment in the total tax savings amount of 1,135,325 and 22 cents to Indigo in the amount of 55,863 and 21 cent.

Houses has confirmed and agree with both amounts.

DMD also agrees with the amounts and the termination.

Someone from hosts is in the audience for further questions.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Do we have any anyone from hostess can get up and speak if they'd like.

Yes, please raise your right hand.

Do you swear from another penalty subject to tell the truth and nothing but the truth?

I do.

Thank you.

Good afternoon to the commission.

Um, thank you for taking a few minutes just to hear uh today.

We are we are here to formally request the termination of our tax abatement agreement as as you all know the decision had been made by by the company um several months ago, almost a year ago now to close the um facility uh here in Indianapolis.

Definitely not a decision that was made lightly.

Um we have gone through a process since Smucker acquired the hostess business in late 2023 to evaluate our operations footprint and ultimately we had acquired six facilities on the acquisition.

Uh two of them have since been divested to third parties and uh with the remaining four um operating facilities in four different states.

We were um needing to consolidate them into three facilities, and so that decision had been made and announced last summer.

Um happy to answer any questions that that the group may have, but we are certainly um very appreciative of the partnership of the city and the county over the last many years, and uh very um thankful to our talented workforce that are moving on to new chapters and um we are here to honor every aspect of the agreement that we had entered into under the abatement initially and prepared to repay uh the full clawback amounts that Letitia listed thank you can you state your name and address for the record?

I'm sorry, sure.

Christine Herrera, I serve as the treasurer and the vice president of tax and address uh 529 timber Creek Drive, Timber Creek is two words.

That's in Akron Akron, Ohio, and my zip is 4433.

And any questions from the commission?

Is there anyone else who wants to speak for or against this?

Okay, seeing none, can I get a motion to adopt this resolution from Commissioner Schumacher?

So moved.

And a second from Commissioner West.

Second.

And then we'll vote.

Hergett.

Her yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Murphy, Murphy, yes.

Robinson, Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

West, yes.

And Garver is a yes.

So now we'll move on to our zoning petitions.

Thank you.

We have nine zoning petitions of no appeal.

Eight of the zoning position.

No, now we just have eight, don't we?

Sorry about that.

Uh recommended for approval.

Uh Nancy, would you read those into the record?

Yes.

Thank you again.

Um Madam Acting Secretary, Madam Acting President.

Petitions of no appeal recommended for approval by the hearing examiners.

2024 MOD is 019 8907 Fathom Crest.

Lawrence Township, Council District 4.

2025, MOD 023, 8707, Shelby Street, Perry Township, Council District 23.

2025 ZON 062 amended at 5709 50 road and 73 7340 East Edgewood Avenue, Franklin Township, Council District 25.

2025 Z O N 111 at 11207, East Washington Street, Warren Township, Council District 20.

2025 Z O N 121, 4630 West 71st Street, Pipe Township, Council District 1.

2025 Z O N 125 at 9700 East Thompson Road, Franklin Township, Council District 25.

2025 ZON 131 at 1255 Roosevelt Avenue, Center Township, Council District 13.

And lastly, 2025 Z O N 136 at 1711 North College Avenue, Center Township, Council District 13.

This ends the reading of the petitions of no appeal recommended for approval.

Thank you.

So the following eight zoning petitions are recommended for approval.

And I will call call the roll for a vote to adopt the recommendation as a group.

We have 2024 MOD.

Is it 2024?

M O D 019 2025 MOD 023 2025 Z O N 02062 2025 Z O N 11 2025 Z O N 121 2025 Z O N 125 2025 Z O N 131 and 2025 Z O N 136 at 1711 North College Avenue.

Is there a motion to approve the petition as a group from Commissioner Murphy?

So moved.

And second from Commissioner Robinson.

Second.

Now I'll call the roll.

Hergett?

Heard it, yes.

Lyle.

Lyle, yes.

Murphy.

Murphy, yes.

Ravinson.

Robinson, yes.

Schumacher.

Schumacher, yes.

And Garver is a yes.

Now we'll move on to the zoning petition scheduled for public hearing.

Oh, West.

I'm sorry.

I crossed you off and you didn't even say anything.

Sorry about that.

Okay, Nancy, thank you.

Yes.

Uh we would now hear our public hearings, petitions for public hearing.

We have one petition remaining on the docket for public hearing.

It's a rezoning petition scheduled for initial hearing.

2025 Z O N 130 at 1033, 1037, 1041, 1045, 1049, and 1053 Harlan Street.

Harbors at Harlan LLC by Michael Rabinovich requesting rezoning of 1.05 acres from the D5 district to the DP district to provide for a town home development consisting of 15 dwelling units.

Well, all those intending to testify on this petition this afternoon, either for or against.

Please stand now to be identified.

Anybody, everyone that's going to speak, please stand now.

Please raise your right hands.

Do you swear affirmative pennies of perjury to tell the truth and nothing but the truth?

Say I do.

I do.

Thank you.

So just to go over the rules, how we do this.

I know you know this, but just in case.

The petitioner gets 15 minutes.

The remonstrator gets 15 minutes, and I know we have Councillor Jones here.

Thank you for coming.

Um she gets her own set of time, and then we'll hear from the staff, and then there'll be a five-minute rebuttal from every every person involved.

So thank you.

For each side, not every person.

Thanks.

Thank you, Commissioner Garber.

Commissioners Misha Rabinowich, uh, attorney with offices at one Indiana Square Suite 1800.

In this case, I represent uh the petitioner harbors at Harlan and its principal Eric Armstrong.

You may stand up there so they they know who you are.

Um we've had um some cases here before.

Eric does a lot of redevelopment work, mainly on the near north side, a lot of single family redevelopment, some townhome um development, and these these smaller projects are really beneficial to provide much needed affordable housing stock in Indianapolis.

We've seen some uh as I said on the north side, and this is affordable with a lowercase A, meaning that seeking incentives from the city or the state or or the federal government.

Um it's lower price housing.

Um with this petition, the petitioner is seeking to rezone roughly one acre of undeveloped property uh that is currently zone D5 in the Prospect Falls neighborhood to the DP or the development plan district to provide for 15 townhomes.

The prospect falls uh neighborhood for those of you that don't know is located east of Fountain Square and just north of Prospect Street behind tab one and the materials that I think are in front of you is the aerial and behind tab two are some site uh photos.

I think you can see that the property uh is vacant, certainly in need of um this significant investment, and the area is is transitional in that there is investment coming.

There is uh newer housing stock coming along, and this would really further um that uh movement.

Um but what the area needs is rooftops, it needs affordable rooftops, it needs people living in the neighborhood.

Um I think you'll hear from one of the neighbors that's here uh that at one time prospect street was a very productive commercial corridor.

It is challenges because density is lacking in the area in this project would help that.

With this project over the past several months, Eric Armstrong has worked very closely with residents in the neighborhood, really working to refine the development plan to accommodate comments and feedback that he's received.

And we're pleased to be here today with the support of not only City Councillor Kristen Jones, but also representatives of the Prospect Falls Neighborhood Association, and there are a couple of other area residents that will speak to you in support of this project.

There are also letters of support from Riley Spielman.

He's the one in the in the wheelchair, the president of the neighborhood association, and councillor Jones in your materials at tabs seven and nine.

Going back to the aerial, which is at tab one, just to kind of give you a little more context.

And on that block, there's a variety of housing mix.

There are single family homes, there's some duplexes, there are different types of roofs.

There's some gabled roofs, there's some flat roofs, there's some slanted roofs.

The point is that there's lots of different kinds of buildings.

And then to the south of the property is a multi multifamily residential building.

So there is multifamily already in the area.

So Harlan Streets to the west, there's an alley that's in really poor shape to the south, and then to the east, there is also an alley.

Again, it's five undeveloped lots.

I guess there's one remaining house that would be demolished as part of this as part of this development.

Turning your attention to the site plan, and it's probably best to look at tab five, which is the landscape plan, so we can review that what we're proposing again is 15 townhomes.

Harlan Street is at the bottom of your page, and the building to the north, which is the left of the page has four units.

Then as you go south, there's another building that has three units, and then there's a building south of that backs up to the southern alley and the garages front, the alley, the front of those of those units face interior to a courtyard, which has a public um gathering space, well landscaped.

After receiving the staff report, I think some of you who were here last couple weeks ago recalled that we had made some changes to the site plan in reaction to the staff report that we received.

I wanted to identify those changes because I think those were very helpful in satisfying many of staff's concerns, but I I don't think it satisfied all of them.

The point is though that we've worked very hard to try to accommodate the things that we heard.

One of which was that that southernmost building, the eight-unit building, as originally presented, put the side or west wall along Harlan.

Um the suggestion was made by the city architect to move the entrance on the westernmost unit so that it faces Harlan.

So now you have a nice elevation along Harlan with front doors for all of the units that face Harlan.

The other thing we did was we had a staggered setback.

Um we've moved all of the setback in line with the setback of the other homes, existing homes that are north of the project on Harlan.

So you have one steady steady setback line up through the street.

You can see from the landscape plan that we've improved the landscape significantly from what is there.

Um again, there's a there's a gathering space in the middle with or showing a uh pergola uh where there could be a grill and and um community activity there, a fenced um a fenced dog park.

One one of the concerns that staff raised is that this brings the introduction of a new housing type to the neighborhood, introduction of townhomes with access from the alley in a manner that other existing properties don't have.

Each of these units would have its own attached garage, which many people find important.

There are also different building heights, some equivalent to what we're proposing here.

Secondly, and this is really the most important point I think I'd like to make regarding this project, is that it's extremely important to the city and to this community that we bring density.

We bring density to support commercial.

I read an article recently where there's something like a 15,000 unit housing deficit in the Indianapolis metro area alone.

This is an opportunity where we shouldn't let restrictive ordinance requirements get in the way of a project that the community supports, that is well designed and well developed, and will bring the kind of affordable housing that's needed.

Let's quickly review the building elevations.

There's some conceptual drawings behind tab six just to talk a little bit more detail about these units.

The materials are primarily brick masonry with some glazing and some hardy plank cement board signing uh siding.

Each unit is three bedroom, three and a half bath, um, each with a dedicated one and a half car garage.

So there's room for a car in the garage, and there's room in the driveway for a second car if someone had a second car.

Um there's also street parking um in the area.

Um each unit has an outdoor patio or or upper um upper uh patio area.

Um prices, people always ask that prices start in the range of about 350,000 dollars, which is significantly lower, and that still seems like a lot, but significantly lower than the half million to $800,000 townhomes that you're seeing on the near north side.

Um as I said earlier, uh Eric's worked very closely with the neighborhood.

We've included in your materials the community benefit agreement that the developer has entered into with the prospect falls neighborhood association to uh work cooperatively with them on the design of this development and to participate financially in the uh neighborhood with a a significant uh uh commitment.

Um I think with that I'd like for um Riley from the neighborhood to come say a few words if you would he was in a recent uh serious car accident, which is why he's in the wheelchair.

It's not how you operate all the time, I don't think no.

Hopefully, it's I can actually get the crushes.

No, I'm okay.

I think I can I think this is okay.

Yeah, you want me to leave it right here.

Yeah, this is good.

Thank you.

Sir, um you need to state your name and address, please.

Awesome.

My name is Riley Spelman.

I'm the acting neighborhood president of Prospect Falls Neighborhood Association.

Um, and my address is 1225 Churchman Avenue.

Uh that's 46203 here in Indianapolis.

Uh it's worth noting it's about 400 feet from this development.

Um yeah, I'll go ahead and say my entire piece.

Specifically the community benefits agreement that he has alluded to is an incredible injection of support both from a human hours commitment and a monetary commitment to the neighborhood that's been historically ignored or not realized that Prospect Falls exists.

With this agreement, we're going to be able to revitalize the two parks in our neighborhood.

They're two-way stops.

So we're going to be creating pedestrian safety in the neighborhood for everyone in the area and for all the folks that use that 6.8 mile trail to commute.

One of the first things I worked on as neighborhood president was to bring an Aldi to the neighborhood, and we do not have the density to meet the requirements.

We're teetering on the lower edge.

So while Harbors at Harlan won't bring us over the number, it gets us a lot closer and encourages additional development to bring a grocery store to what is considered by the definition to be a food desert, as the nearest grocery store is the Twin Air Kroger, which is just a mile away, and there's only three years left on their contract.

We do not know if they're going to renew and remain a grocery store available to our neighbors.

The last piece I'd like to say is obviously Prospect Falls Neighborhood Association pledges their strong support to this project.

But I also saw advice from Clark Harris.

He's the Bates Hendricks Neighborhood Association land use.

And he's in favor of this project.

After reviewing this project, he is in favor of it.

One of the largest churches in our area, Family Bible Church, and their parish are in strong support, as well as the South Side Coalition of the U.S.

Color Guard is in strong support of bringing this additional density and new neighbors to our neighborhood.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Yes, Act President.

Just one clarification, if you might not community benefits agreement.

I'm just reading in section two number three, if you wouldn't mind clarifying the details at section two number three.

That would be helpful.

So our neighborhood is in the process of finalizing a 501c4.

So first and foremost, this uh injection of cash would help us clear the $600 hurdle to become an official tax-exempt entity recognized by the government.

Um then these funds are also what are going to fund that park revitalization and the um greenway tactical urbanism projects.

Um and there are provisions that the additional funds will be used for neighborhood building and social events.

Um the was your question related to how much it really is, because that I was a little confused.

Um so, in short, the um it's a 10,000 flat fee, and then um based on the number of tenants within paying HOA fees, it'll be about $2,700 a year paid semi-annually.

So the first year would be up to $7700, the second year would be up to $5,200, the third year, $5200, and then the fourth year onward, potentially $2,700 a year.

Very well, thank you.

It just looks here, 10,000.

There's a disbursement of $5,000 upon zoning approval and two disbursements of $5,000, which sounds like $15,000.

That should say two distributions of $2,500.

You are absolutely correct.

We'll clear that up.

I as I was reading that, I had the same question.

So thank you.

Uh source.

Yeah, thank you.

Any other questions?

Oh, acting President Garver.

Acting President Garver.

I have some questions for uh Council Rabinoch.

And forgive me if you already answered these.

I was going through your materials and taking notes.

I may have missed something.

Approximate square feet of the dwelling units.

2,250 square feet.

Okay.

And get in a little bit about ownership types.

So I saw a reference to an HOA.

Is this a HPR or exactly what is the ownership structure?

Let me have uh yeah.

Go ahead.

So Eric Armstrong, harbor's at Harlan.

Address is 6151 Central Avenue, Indianapolis, Indiana, 4620.

These are uh set up as uh for sale units that will be governed by an HOA and to kind of follow up uh Counselor Lyle's question, those HOA funds will have a carve-out provision that's capped to make sure that that $2700 commitment is then paid out uh according to the neighborhood association when they're established.

But ultimately, just confirm they would be separately platted lots.

These are separately platted lots for sale, yes.

So who owns the common area?

Common area will be governed by the HOA.

Who owns it?

Um I think we would be yeah, the HOA would be yeah, set up as a separate separate entity.

Um they do the setup of the of the entity.

But yeah, the entity would be set up.

So the HOA would be a separate entity, which I think they have to be, but I mean, typically in this situation, each owner would get ownership of their platted a lot and a percentage of ownership of the common area.

Yeah, it's typically uh like a fifteenth or is divided by the number of total.

Sorry, okay.

I didn't realize that.

Yes, it's it's so ownership is by the plat unit owners of the of the common area.

That is correct, yes.

Okay, and then the HOA and yeah, we would not re yeah, we would not remain the owner when we were fully stabilized, then they would have a transition hand.

I apologize, yeah.

So it'd be a 15th and then declarant would transfer ownership to the HOA?

Correct.

Okay.

And then once that happens, um the HOA would be responsible for care and maintenance of the common areas?

That's correct, yes.

And each individual homeowner is responsible for the care and maintenance of their exterior and interior.

Is that correct?

That's correct, yes.

And then are there common or party wall agreements because they're attached units?

Yes, and then that usually covers the um, you know, the roofing area since you have a seamless roofing area and the common and the common walls, yes.

Yeah, okay.

Um I think that's all I have.

Thank you.

No problem.

Uh additional follow-up question on that same note with the roofing and uh the party walls.

Can you speak to any fire damage protections that might exist for the homeowners between units so that they're not you know affected by the happenings of someone else?

Yeah, so you they would obviously you'd have the HOA uh insurance that governs the roof.

The roof would come with a 20-year uh warranty on the roofing system that includes I think it's an annual maintenance to that.

So that part is covered if there's fire damage that would obviously be covered by their ownership portion of the agreement and then the HOA's uh general insurance.

Thank you.

Yep.

I did have one other question that I skipped.

Uh can you touch on previous developments?

Yes, um, we're currently working at a uh completion on staff supported development at 30th and college, uh, which is the old Frogs Records uh building.

Uh currently finishing up uh at 49 uh 23 Kessler, which is the old uh Kessler mansion.

So we're uh tying in with uh citizens actually this month, and uh so we decided to try something a little bit easier uh with with this particular development.

Will these be your first townhome development?

Uh no, we do have uh a few town homes on the near north side, uh Central Avenue, and on uh college and the 2900 block of college.

And what hundred block is central?

Uh 2900 block of central as well.

Both were previous uh vacant lots.

Thank you.

Uh personal curiosity, how close is three of them college to being done?

Um we're starting lease up in March.

Got a lot of eager, a lot of eager people for that.

Okay, thank you.

And now do we have any remonstrators?

Okay, then we'll hear from our uh city county council person.

Thanks, council.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

City County Councillor Kristen Jones, 714 Shepherd Street, Indianapolis, Indiana, 46221.

Thank you, Acting President Garver and Commissioners.

I appreciate you allowing me to speak today on this project.

When Mr.

Armstrong approached me about this, my first question was Did you reach out to the neighborhood?

Um as you've heard today, Prospect Falls is in a very popular neighborhood.

A lot of people didn't know about it, and I immediately connected him to Riley Spielman, who you heard from.

And Riley is a neighborhood leader who certainly does his homework, and they immediately connected and begin those conversations.

Shortly thereafter Riley was in that accident.

But this project was so important to Riley that they had a meeting, and even from the hospital that Riley was connecting with me and wanted to make sure that Mr.

Armstrong knew the reason that he wasn't connecting with him at a meeting was because he was in the hospital and wanted to make sure that we continued those conversations, and this project did not stop or was not delayed.

It was that important to him because we had already begun the conversations with the community.

I myself went from the dates of November 15th through November 22nd, and I canvassed 67 homes around in that map right there, the 67 most impacted homes.

And I personally talked to those folks, and if they didn't answer the door, I left a packet with the legal notice with a map, my cell phone number, and my email.

And I said, if you had any questions, please talk to me.

And in those conversations, not one person had a negative reaction, had negative feedback or anything.

And from the folks I didn't talk to, no one contacted me.

And in Riley's conversations with the neighborhood, any feedback they had, as you've heard, they developed a community benefits agreement, and they they worked through everything together.

So for this corner, going down prospect, I do believe that this is the catalyst that this neighborhood needs.

This neighborhood has long been underserved and neglected, and I believe this will be really good for our community, and it's something that they really need.

The community, sometimes my neighbors are very my neighbors are very engaged.

We have ones from Monstrators, but the fact that this is the second time that I have a constituent who has this a medical problem that's very debilitating, and he has showed up.

I think that shows you that this project is really important to our community, and he's willing to come here in this condition to and he stood and he stood up.

He really wants to stand up for our community.

We've worked really hard with Mr.

Armstrong to be a project that this corner in this community can be proud of.

And as Riley talked about, we we need stores.

He's working on trying to bring that development.

And I just humbly asked for for your support today so that we can bring that process and that catalyst to this neighborhood.

So thank you very much for listening to us today.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any questions for Councillor Jones?

Seeing none, we'll hear from staff.

Thank you, Acting President Garver, members of the Commission.

I first want to say and go on the record that staff supports density, and staff supports affordable housing.

It's been presented like staff is against that, but staff wants density.

We support that in every petition that we discuss, and we also want to look at affordability to the residents.

However, this project goes in conflict with what the pattern book provides as well as in fill housing guidelines.

The pattern book, as you know, is an uh uh another document that is connected to the comprehensive plan, and what that does is provide some guidelines and recommendations for the development.

There are three items in that pattern book that staff would like to discuss.

The first one is that all housing units be oriented towards the street.

Seven of these units are internally oriented.

There are eight that are fronting on Harlan, but not all of them are fronting on Harlan.

They are internal.

Staff believes that that is something that should be it.

It's important when you bring in new housing.

You have to have eyes on the street.

You have to have that pedestrian connection to a street.

The second item is it recommends densities that are higher than 15 dwelling units.

This is just over 15 dwelling units per acre.

Have design character compatible with the adjacent properties.

This connects to the infill housing guidelines, and I'll make some comments about that afterwards, but staff does not believe that this is compatible with those adjacent properties.

The third one in the pattern book recommends that town homes be organized around intersections of neighborhood collector streets.

Ideally, this should be down, move south and be on Prospect Street.

Right now it is located in the middle of the block on a local street.

And again, it has impact on this neighborhood that is primarily single family, one story, single family, and duplexes here in this area.

Yes, there are some other higher and newer development that has occurred in the neighborhood.

However, the character of this neighborhood is single and single family and duplexes.

This development, as has been mentioned, would introduce a new housing type of attached single family dwellings, which are town homes.

Staff believes the mass of these, there are going to be three stories.

There's nothing three stories in this neighborhood.

There are some two-story structures.

But there are this will be three stories, and there are going to be three buildings.

The one that's on the south is the most massive.

That's the one that has the most units.

So staff believes that it is not compatible with what exists there in the neighborhood today.

The infield housing guidelines in the introduction, and I want to read this into the record.

It states that new development that is not coordinated with the surrounding context can diminish an area's sense of place.

And sense of place is what you see when you walk into a neighborhood.

It gives you a feeling for what this neighborhood is.

But heavily dictating the design or type of development, including single family homes, duplexes, triplexes, town homes, can potentially drive up real estate prices when demand for housing is strong.

We know demand for housing is strong.

And I will tell you, I see this in my own neighborhood.

I could never afford to go into that neighborhood now.

I have seen the prices rise up to a quarter million dollars.

There is no way that I could afford the neighborhood that I'm living in now to move into that.

What's happening, and I have seen it again, it's very close to this area.

I have seen residents, longtime residents, either lose their house or have to move in to a rental property because they cannot afford to live there because of the prices that have increased over the years because they bring in this new development, and then that raises the tax base of that area.

When smaller homes are torn down and replaced with significantly larger homes that do not match the surrounding context, this reduces the stock of affordable housing.

And again, staff wants affordable housing out there.

There is a need for that.

There is a need for density and affordable housing in a way that can limit long-term residents, and I just talked about this ability to stay in their neighborhood.

Again, the staff believes it could be developed.

There are six lots here.

And if you look at page 66 of the staff report, you'll see an aerial.

And again, there are six lots.

Staff believes what would be appropriate or more appropriate for this neighborhood would be to have six single-family dwellings and then have uh detached garage with a carriage house.

You're looking there at 12 units.

Those are 12 living units.

They are talking about 15.

The staff believes 12 living units would be more appropriate for this neighborhood, more compatible with this neighborhood, and more affordable for this neighborhood.

And with that, staff would be glad to answer any questions that you might have.

Thanks, Kathleen.

Any questions for staff?

Yeah, I have some questions.

Um you have their handout book?

Yes.

Okay.

So I'm just trying to understand the comment you're making about the facade.

Um on that page.

Right.

Yeah.

On Harlan Street.

Yeah, focus me in on.

So this is Harlan Street here.

Right.

Yeah.

And so you're saying that these on Harlan, that their front door is facing the courtyard.

No, their front door is facing Harlan, and that's what we want to see.

Okay.

So it's these that you have.

Those are the ones.

Because as you go in, the access from the homes are from an alley, so they are facing internally.

Okay, so they're facing the courtyard.

Yes.

And then off the alley, that's the garage.

Yes.

Which is not a primary artery or thoroughfare, it's an alley.

That's right.

Okay, but you'd prefer to see them turn around with their front doors on the alley.

No.

But staff, again, in this situation, staff is not supporting of those units that are internal and off the alley.

Right.

But I mean that's is that correct?

That's kind of the fundamental of that objection is that the front doors don't, they're not on the right of way.

Right.

So you prefer to see their front doors face the alley.

We prefer to have them face the right of way, and I know not the alley.

But I know I I know either answer is not going to be what I mean we do have thousands of homes in this city in old neighborhoods that the alley is the garage loading side, right?

Right.

Oh yeah.

Which would be consistent with this.

Yes, it would be.

Okay.

And then another question I had is um this seems to be a pretty common design and construction materials and approach that we've seen on the north side and up in Martindale, Brightwood, and a lot of places.

Fletcher place.

Um they were built in that the homes that surround them or surrounded them were similar to this small story and a half bungalows and whatnot.

Right, yes.

Um yet those exist.

They to some extent seem to have revitalized those neighborhoods, repopulated those neighborhoods.

What's different about this neighborhood compared to those?

Well, the difference is the staff, you know, we we're looking at again the pattern book and trying to make that as compatible with the neighborhood as possible.

Uh and I know there have been some other developments, and some of those developments staff has supported.

And again, it's going to depend upon where they are located if they are on an arterial like college and central staff would support those, because again, they're on an arterial there in the corner rather than being mid block in the middle of a neighborhood.

Yes.

Okay.

And then I also want to understand what you were saying about a couple things about affordability.

So when you were talking about the neighborhood becoming unaffordable to existing residents, is that because the increase in property taxes and you can no longer afford property taxes?

That is right.

Okay.

So not affordability of the of the cost of the housing, but rather the property tax.

That is correct.

Okay.

Um then, you know, when you were talking about you'd rather see single family detached homes with detached garages.

Is that correct?

Yes, and a carriage house above the garage.

Yeah.

Um that's, you know, the tightrope that developers I think walk is, as you stated at the beginning, we want density.

Right.

And we want affordable housing.

That's difficult to achieve when you're doing detached single-family homes with detached garages and maybe even with carriage houses, because the cost to build per unit goes up considerably when they're detached.

And then because they're detached, the density goes down.

Right.

So that is a tough balancing act for a developer to walk, and oftentimes what a developer I have observed over the years has done to make those types of developments affordable is they've sought subsidies.

So they've sought tax abatement, they've sought TIFF money, maybe they've sought tax credits, there's all kinds of baskets that they can dip into, but then with that comes a lot of red tape, applications, paperwork, soft cost increase to the developer to acquire those to hire legal counsel to navigate that form.

So I just want to comment that I understand staff's general concept that you'd rather see more compatible houses in that they'd be single family detached, but we also want to see increase density and affordability.

And so I think it is a difficult, challenging tightrope for the developers to walk.

Yes, I admit that.

Yes, understand what that is, and it is conundrum because it just you know you want something that's going to work for the neighborhood and that's not going to be impactful to the neighborhood, but at the same time you want to encourage development of those vacant lots.

Yes.

And these are 2200 square foot dwellings, so they're not enormous.

No.

Probably even by the standards of the existing housing, I would think.

Probably somewhat larger, but not enormous.

Yeah.

So that's all I have.

And then uh just a comment.

I think something was mentioned about the number of floors in the properties being three versus the majority of the context in the neighborhood is one or two.

Um there are some, it looks like two bedroom, two floors with an attic space.

Um, but would there be any appetite to see or to encourage a developer to um have a visual appeal from the street as if there were two floors?

Maybe uh a setback third level or something of the sort.

Was there any conversation about how to ameliorate that issue of three floors visually being higher from the uh curb than other properties around?

I understand what you're saying.

We have not had any discussions related to that, but I understand what you're saying, yes.

And again, if you will set that if that third floor is set back, it does have less less impact on you know the abutting.

Yeah, I mean, just even looking at the map here now.

There's a couple places that have you know upper level deck that's a little bit further back than the roof line and different things like that.

So I think there could be some meaningful ways to achieve a balance so that the context of the existing neighborhood isn't disrupted as much because it is these are three extremely large buildings that visually may appear out of place, but I think architecture there could be some things to really answer that well.

I agree, yes, and I know staff has worked in the past with developers and architects in order to do what you're talking about is to set that third floor uh back so it doesn't impact the adjacent, you know, the abutting properties.

Thanks.

Any other questions for staff?

Okay.

Uh uh petitioners, you get your five minutes.

Yeah, let me make just a few broad comments and then I uh there's another neighbor that would like to speak.

Um regarding the configuration.

We really did look at a lot of different iterations.

Um staff talks about not in the staff report here, I don't think, but a uh a um a um where you where you have the the building's courtyard configuration.

We looked at that.

We just this is the best way to get the number of units on the property um that we could find.

And I think just to respond to one comment, it's not really 12 units versus 15 units, it's really six single family lots versus 15 individually owned lots.

Um looking at 15, the land cost is divided, you know, twice than what it is if it's six um units.

So that's why the the costs come uh come down considerably.

I want to reference the infill housing guidelines because I did look at those really closely.

The section that uh Kathleen read really relates to sort of gentrification or overbuilding of lots.

Um you tear down a smaller home and you build big uh build a big home and then all of a sudden the assessments in the neighborhood go go way up.

That's that's not what's occurring here.

Okay, yes, it's new development, so the assessments will increase, but it's it's not what the infill housing guidelines are talking about.

And if you look at those guidelines, there's as many that we are compliant with as that we are not.

Um I want to leave some time for Jeff Tompkins.

He's a neighbor, he's also a land planner, and I think he studied this pretty carefully and has been involved in the development process.

So, Jeff, you want to go ahead.

Jeffrey Tompkins, 1118 Churchman Avenue, Indianapolis, Indiana, 46203.

I'm a member of the American Institute of Certified Planners, the Indiana Women's Affordable Housing Uh Committee, and also I live across the street, which I believe is a little pertinent to this discussion.

I have some notes here.

Uh heart harbors at Harlan is one half block north of Prospect Street, which is historically a streetcar corridor.

Uh historically the street supported a wide cadre of small businesses and supported double the density it does now.

The property in question is not mid-block, however, it is half of a block north of a major commercial corridor.

It is not mid-block.

It is said for every block of local retail, we need 1,000 residents.

If we want more retail, we need more rooftops.

I appreciate staff's comment on density.

However, the land use pattern book of the Marion County comp plan recommends townhomes be organized around corridors, nodes, and major collector roads.

One half block north of Prospect Street.

I think this aligns very well with the Marion County pattern book and info housing guidelines.

If we look at internal orientation of the townhomes themselves, because this is on a half block north of prospect, those south units face an alley.

The properties to the south are zone C4 and MU2.

They're also in the land use code ascribes to a commercial uh designation in the future.

So as that gets developed, if those units would be oriented to the alley, they'd be facing back of house of restaurants and commercial property.

And I don't know about you, but I don't want to see my front door with a grease strap in front of it.

Additionally, the infill housing guidelines are a suggestive, not prescriptive document.

Uh however, we do think that Hart Harbor's project does meet these suggestions quite well.

Uh they offer guidelines on form fit and context.

The fit here being the setback is the aggregate average of the existing street structures along Harlan Street.

The harbors property development does meet that setback quite well.

Forty percent of all the properties on Harlan Street currently have a slanted or sloped roof similar to the property in question that's being developed.

So this is not out of context with the existing context of the neighborhood.

So all of that being said, lastly, both the infill housing guidelines and the pattern book suggest that incremental increases in density be between commercial property, mixed use property, and single family homes.

Both the pattern book and infill housing guidelines suggest that the next increment from single family homes is attached single family homes.

And where I come from, we call that town homes.

One last note the land few the land use pattern book and the Marion County Comp plan call for increased density near greenways, transit lines, and within 400 feet of major parks.

This is within a quarter mile of the pleasant run greenway, and as such does meet the pattern book suggestions for the type of typology we're seeing here.

Uh with that, I would think that we would like to welcome some new neighbors and maybe eventually get that Aldi.

I thank you for your time, Commission.

Any questions?

Okay, seeing none, uh still no remonstrators.

So uh councillor Jones, do you have anything you want to add?

Okay, thank you.

Uh and then staff, anyway.

Staff has no further comments.

Thank you.

Okay.

Anyone have any further questions or comments?

Okay.

I've got one for Councillor Rabinovich.

Talk about the the staff suggestion about you touched on it, but the single family homes versus the town homes and that piece.

Yeah, I I think what staff's suggesting is with the six lots, there are six lots that there would be a single family home fronting Harlan.

And then to the east, there would be a detached garage with perhaps a um uh a second dwelling above the garage.

That's that's that's six different properties, six different owners.

Um that's not near the density that we're offering here with 15 different townhome owners.

That that was really the point I was trying to make.

And give us again broad strokes on what you've done to get this more in compliance since the start of the project.

Yeah, so so the um a number of things I probably can't even remember, but most recently we've adjusted the um be the west elevation of that south building, so that as uh Commissioner Murphy referenced, it actually faces Harlan.

That was a significant um comment that staff had made that they wanted the fronts of the buildings to face the the public right-of-way.

So that was one.

Then the other most recent one was there was a staggered setback of the south building from the buildings that are north.

Um those were adjusted so that they're in line with the properties to the north.

We also further developed the landscape plan, added crosswalks, um, added the um detail to the interior courtyard with the gazebo and some other community uh things that benefit the community.

I think that generally covers it.

What one additional on the height in our DP statement, we've kept the height at 33 feet.

This goes to Commissioner Lyle's comment, um, which is not significantly taller than the the taller homes on that block that, as you mentioned, are about two and a half, you know, two and a half stories.

Um we'd also include it in the packet two commitments, one of which is that final build building elevations would be subject to administrators' approval.

And so our commitment, I think, to the commission and and to staff is to continue to work on the elevations to get them to a point that um everybody can feel comfortable with.

So we'd ask if you are inclined to approve the case that it be subject to the two commitments that we've included in tab 10 of our um materials.

I do have one last comment just to follow up on your so again talking about the impact on affordability.

Again, talking about the impact on affordability.

If you did six single family homes with carriage house garages, and you divide the land costs among six instead of fifteen, and then you have the increase in cost because you have extra walls on all those detached homes, those are probably going to have to sell at more like five to six hundred thousand.

Okay.

So it makes them less affordable.

And then the other impact of that, my understanding of the way the property tax system works, I haven't appealed dozens of them.

Is they don't look at okay, here's five million dollar development creating 15 units that goes into this tax district.

It's what are the comparable sale prices that then that impacts the assessed value of the existing properties.

And so the more expensive home you have developed in that neighborhood, the more of a upward spiraling impact that has on the assessed value of old existing homes.

So it really is advantageous, and as the council referenced, any new development is probably going to create an increase in property taxes eventually to some extent.

But the less those homes sell for, the less impact those will have on existing housing because they won't have comparable sales of six or seven hundred thousand dollars to compare the existing houses to go to your ballots, please.

Nancy will collect them.

There were seven ballots cast.

Okay, thank you.

Is there anything else before the commission?

Seeing none, I'll take a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Eric.