0:01Okay, we're ready to start for the uh our meeting is Indianapolis Local Public Improvement Bond Bank.
0:13And this uh board meeting has been is pursuant to the Indianapolis Indiana open door policy.
0:25And so I'd like to call this meeting to order anybody the first part of agenda of the minutes from February 23rd.
0:39Chairman, having read the minutes is presented, I would move their approval.
0:44Do we have a root second?
0:46All in favor say aye.
0:52Approval of the minutes is passed.
1:00Uh if anybody is going to talk today, please come up and sign in so we know.
1:08There wasn't a signage date.
1:11Oh, it would only be at the board at questions.
1:15Do you want me to have to sign it?
1:18So you got to thank you, Mr.
1:34Um, so uh having approved the minutes.
1:36Um the next item on our agenda is uh presentation from the India Arts Council.
1:40Um I'd like to introduce um Judith Thomas, who is uh president and CEO of the Arts Council as well as uh Cabita Mahoney, uh who's vice president as you might remember as a part of the 2026 budget, the uh Indianapolis Bond Bank.
1:52Um the budget included a grant of 500,000 dollars for uh Indie Arts Council initiatives for 2026.
1:58So uh Judith and Cavita have come to talk about uh initiatives uh related to that this year for the arts council.
2:05Good afternoon, everyone.
2:08I'm Judith Thomas, uh CEO.
2:11Let me redo that president and CEO of the Indy Arts Council.
2:14That president has to go before the CEO.
2:17And then I have with me, Kavitha, would you like to introduce yourself?
2:20Sure, I'm Kavita Mahoney.
2:21I'm the vice president at the Indie Arts Council.
2:23I've been there for about two years, and Judith is coming up on her one year.
2:26Yeah, it's coming up on uh year one, April 21st, as some of you may know as deputy mayor for about four or five, well, four years, I say about 20 years and dog years, but it was a great experience.
2:37So I'm excited to be in front of you uh here today to talk about uh the Indy Arts Council, which is just an absolutely wonderful organization.
2:44Uh so a little bit about uh the arts council.
2:47Our mission, our mission is to champion arts and culture.
2:52Uh, we believe that every resident in the city of Indianapolis should experience arts and culture in a way that nourishes and inspires them.
3:00So the vision of a creative life for all is central to the work that we do, and it's all about supporting artists, arts organizations, and the community.
3:09And you know they make this city come alive.
3:11And so we do this with our guiding values, the three Cs we call them care, community, and creativity.
3:20So as we look um into the advocating for the community, you know, funding and that support is necessary for a very thriving uh scene here in the city.
3:31We're constantly pursuing and we're promoting ideas and programs to serve our artists, the arts organizations, and the community, and we connect artist audiences and businesses as well as foundations and organizations with opportunities to explore and expand Central Indiana's creativity creative vitality.
3:52Also, uh many folks don't realize this, and we're on a marketing campaign to discuss and promote all the things that we do in so many unique ways, but we also uh own and operate two performance venues and exhibit spaces spaces.
4:05Indianapolis Arts Garden.
4:06Everyone loves the Arts Garden, it's been around for 30 years now.
4:09Hard to believe, and uh Gallery 924, that's 924 Pennsylvania, where our offices are also located, but we have a beautiful gallery there as well.
4:18Our online initiative is very exciting where we explore Indie Arts is what we call it.
4:23This provides a comprehensive arts calendar featuring thousands of events throughout the years, throughout the year performances and exhibitions throughout Central Indiana.
4:32Now that calendar is also shared with Visit Indy.
4:35So that means not only do our residents benefit uh from all the programming that's taken place throughout central Indiana, but uh so are our visitors here.
4:44So for several decades, the city has entrusted us with public funding to support local arts and culture organizations.
4:52In 2025, our funding increased thanks to the Capital Improvement Board and to the Bond Bank.
5:00We can't thank you enough, actually, for the generous support.
5:04These funds were used for our annual grants program, which provides general operating support for over a hundred organizations.
5:11And we'll we'll get into details of through the years, but I I always emphasize the fact that we supported over a hundred organizations this past year, where in 2016 it was 49 organizations.
5:22It shows the growth of the arts community in the city of Indianapolis and how we have to continue to support it.
5:28We also worked with sector wide marketing, which connects residents to local art experiences and offerings in the city.
5:36And our annual arts and culture project grants as well, which funded to artists directly and organizations to implement programs in public spaces like parks, libraries, community centers, and other accessible spaces.
5:52So we'll share more about that program as well and the impact in the last year.
5:56So our annual grants program, again, since 1987, pretty much the Pan Am Games.
6:01You guys remember the PayM Games.
6:02I actually attended events.
6:03Some people weren't born yet.
6:06You were born, I'm sorry.
6:07The city of Indianapolis has invested in nonprofit and culture and arts and culture organizations through this annual grants program again since 1987.
6:16And it's been administered by the Indy Arts Council since.
6:25So again, I mentioned in 25, uh, a record 103 organizations receive funding to support the programs, exhibitions, and activities that nearly 8 million residents and visitors enjoy each year.
6:39And so to ensure fairness, an independent panel of national grant professionals evaluates the application process, and it is public.
6:49Scoring centers on diversity, equity, inclusion, and access across all three areas of community impact, artistic alignment, and organizational capacity with an emphasis on racial and socioeconomic equity.
7:06So the annual grants program has grown significantly in the last decade, as you can see on the screen there.
7:13This includes equitable investments in people of color-centered organizations, which are organizations led or primarily primarily serving people of color.
7:22Given that Marion County is 50% people of color, we try to match these demographics and how we steward the city dollars to invest in organizations.
7:30We also make sure to invest in equitably in small and mid-sized organizations who are serving their communities through accessible arts programming and experiences.
7:40I think that's truly where we see a lot of the growth.
7:42In just 10 years, we have more than doubled the number of organizations who are funded through this program from 49 to 103, demonstrating significant growth in our thriving community.
7:55So in 2025, we invested in record breaking.
7:58And these two it also included two newer organizations to support capacity building projects.
8:07All of our grantees are based in all 25 city-county council districts.
8:12I think that's important to stay in all of the districts.
8:18I think you wanted to take over the question for us, didn't you?
8:21So in 2025, we launched a small pilot program of project grants for arts and cultural programming in public spaces.
8:40We don't really have, we currently have zero public or other unrestricted funding that's able to support arts and cultural project grant funding.
8:49And this is a significant gap in our current ecosystem as this funding enables us to generate momentum and proof of concept to advocate for more sustained project funding and with local partners based on the results and the impact of this program.
9:07So our project grant actually directly relates to our strategic plan priorities.
9:11We launched a new strategic plan in 2025, and as part of that plan, we not only surveyed our arts organizations and arts leaders, but we did a statistically valid survey of Marion County and the Donut Counties, about 3,000 individuals contributed, including these households, and we asked them about their participation in and perception of arts and culture.
9:35How do they value arts and culture?
9:37And what we learned was that the number one place where residents experience and access arts and culture are not your traditional museum spaces or theaters.
9:45They're actually parks, libraries, public spaces, community centers, places that people already feel welcome and are going to.
9:53We also benchmarked against a bunch of cities across the nation in our strategic plan.
10:00And this included cities such as you know, Columbus, Ohio or Louisville that are comparable to Indy, as well as aspirational cities such as like Seattle or Chicago, and about three quarters of the cities that we benchmarked against have project grant funding available.
10:13It's a core function of what arts councils do.
10:17And this is this is you know something our community's been asking us for for probably a couple decades.
10:22So we were excited to finally launch this program with the increased funding that we got from the from the city and from all of you just to to see, you know, um, and to be able to support what folks are asking for, both residents and the sector, the arts sector.
10:38Um launching this program and demonstrating its impact is vital to raising more funding, also from this program.
10:44So it's not just public funding that we're at we're we're trying to raise funding for, being able to show the impact of this and going to other private funders to show how much arts programming can impact our communities.
10:55Um this funding is available to artists, it's available to neighborhood groups, community center, arts organizations.
11:00Virtually anyone who is doing arts and cultural programming can have access to these funds.
11:05And so we launched our first round um last year.
11:09So here's a little bit of data for you.
11:11Um in our inaugural 2025 project grant round, we had um over 850,000 of funding requested through the applications.
11:21We were able to fund about we had 90,000 dollars, so we funded 90,000, which is 10 applicants from the 96 applicants that applied.
11:30So that's about 10% of the funding requests that we got, we were actually able to fund.
11:36Um so that just kind of demonstrates a significant need.
11:39We just launched our 2026 round of project grants for um arts and in these public spaces.
11:46Uh that closed yesterday, that application round, and it's it's the same data again, about 10% is what we'll be able to fund.
11:54We had um over $700,000 in in requests for this current round.
12:00Um, so definitely uh definitely a need, and something that we're we're this data we continue to share with some of our um philanthropic and and and private funders just to kind of demonstrate truly the need for this this type of funding.
12:13Um so we funded in two different tracks for the 2025 program in youth arts education as well as the arts and culture programming in public spaces.
12:22This is a list of some of the uh of the applicants that um received the funding, and I won't go through all of this, you have it in your packets, um, but wanted to highlight a couple here.
12:31So, Indianapolis Movement Arts Collective is a is a nonprofit organization that's uh movement-based and dance-based, and they were able to create a program where a visually impaired dance performer, dancer performs and teaches at the Indiana School for the Blind and Visually Impaired.
12:49It's a really impactful program.
12:56We also um in the track of arts and public spaces, we also had Arts for Learning, who's hosting workshops that are exploring emotions through multidisciplinary arts experiences that's taking place at Cranert Park on the west side of Indy, among several other um project grants.
13:13Um we also have uh local artist Trisha O'Connors leading arts experiences with immigrant families at at local uh libraries doing some arts programming there.
13:22So we look forward to receiving the final reports from all of these grantees that'll happen later this year.
13:27And so the next time that we're able to present and meet with all of you, we can share the impact from those final grant reports once these programs have taken place.
13:36Um key key words there they're free for the residents.
13:42So investment and impact.
13:44Well, we're really grateful for the public uh funding that we do receive uh from the city, the bond bank, and CIB.
13:50We continue to share and advocate for the arts sector by demonstrating the impact of our work uh on the community and and the continuing uh and increase, continuing increased investment needed to support our artists and arts organizations.
14:06So give you an idea, uh Kavitha referenced the comparison of other cities, right?
14:11So it's a part of our strategic plan again, we benchmark against uh comparable and and and aspirational cities.
14:18As you can see, we have a budget of about uh 4.9 million dollars with a per capita expenditure expenditure of five dollars and sixty-eight cents, the lowest among peers.
14:28So when you look at cities like uh Columbus at $25, Cincinnati at over $56 uh their spending is much higher uh per capita.
14:38Detroit, though serving a slightly smaller uh uh population has a per capita budget of uh $14.21 cents.
14:46So even the mid-sized cities like Pittsburgh uh report a much higher uh per capita budget of uh $52.76.
15:00So indicating that the Arts Council operates with relatively fewer financial resources per resident compared to many of its peers, we still operate at a high level and are really engaged with our community, and despite having one of the largest populations served in the benchmark, it Indy's uh total budget is uh considerably uh lower.
15:16So we're also as a sector facing uh uh cuts at the federal and the state level, which greatly impact the community here.
15:25For instance, Indiana Arts Commission saw a 38% cut uh in its current two-year state appropriation.
15:33Uh and again, that's Indiana Arts Commission that serves the entire state, which incredible programming going on throughout the state as well.
15:40Central Indiana organizations will experience a 19% decrease in state operating support funding, and Marion County experiencing that harder with a 23% decrease.
15:51For project support, Central Indiana saw a huge 44% decrease with Marion County even more significantly impacted with a 75% decrease in project support funding.
16:03So the largest uh funding gaps are in project funding and general operating support.
16:10Uh project support is being cut, uh, especially here in Marion County, and as we demonstrated early earlier, we cannot fund more than 10% of the requests we're receiving for project funding, but there's a deep need for it.
16:25Clearly, this is an area of great need that benefits our residents access to free or low cost art experiences.
16:32Again, this is the first time we've even done project grants, and the fact that we had such a high um demand for it.
16:38So funding is starting to go up, but the number of organizations we support has more than doubled, as we mentioned, and they will continue to grow as this city continues to evolve.
16:47So a reminder of our investment from the city and how it has changed over the years.
16:51So the investment is still below early 2000 levels despite sector growth.
16:56Uh as you can see, uh, the investments during in ARPA were just so important to this community.
17:02And I was in the mayor's office at that time, but saw the impact, and we did not lose arts organizations, right?
17:08They were able to even uh produce during that time and even help the city get messaging out in different ways.
17:14So it was very important.
17:15And so when we got back to in 23 and 24, back to the norm, we were lucky enough to be able to have the CIB and Bond Bank investments, and you can see that increase on that chart.
17:26So despite funding constraints, we know how important arts and culture is and what a huge impact it has on our local community and even the people that visit here.
17:35It's proof of that when you look back on the WNBA All-Star Game, the NBA All Star Game, and Swish, what we're working on with the NCAA coming up.
17:43That even when our visitors come here, we're gonna have about 150 artists out uh uh performing at sidewalk galleries in the coming weeks, and and those sidewalk galleries will continue to stay up.
17:54So we're always making that impact.
17:56And so we we we are really looking to keep that strength going, and and we know that we make an impact in ways with community development, public safety, youth and adult learning, health and wellness, workforce development.
18:08A lot of people that work in the arts and culture community, as well as quality of life and quality of place for all of us, uh, regardless of uh whether you're a visitor or residents, it just makes this city better.
18:21And so this is a great um uh investment for you to see the power of Indy's nonprofit of arts and culture industry uh with this.
18:29Uh we heavily contribute to our economic impact in the city.
18:33Just in Indianapolis alone, we generate over 524 million in direct economic impact through the arts sector, serving 6.5 million annually and employing thousands, and these numbers continue to increase in the last few years.
18:50We're so grateful for the bond bank support that contributes to this economic impact in a major way.
18:56Truly appreciate that support.
19:00Uh we appreciate your continued support with the Indy Arts Council and the culture here in this city and your commitment to the city's creative economy.
19:09It makes us special and unique, and it's certainly a sense of pride.
19:13Uh so we're happy to answer any questions you have at this time.
19:17I don't have a question, Mr.
19:18Chairman, but for all my years on the city council and dominant community.
19:22The arts folks have done a great job, and you should be well commended and uh go find some more money.
19:30Yeah, today to day at a conversation as we have.
19:32I think it's uh pretty big.
19:34Yes, a lot of money away.
19:35Yes, you guys do a great job, and you know, I know we used to have the start with art luncheon every year, and that went on for about 20 years.
19:46So we'll make sure you get invited.
19:47We'll make sure you guys all get invited.
19:49It's just such a wonderful night.
19:53Um, the extension from what Frank talked about.
20:00Is there a lot of interaction between the high schools in Indianapolis and Brock?
20:03Because it seems like we have a lot of stars that turn out to be dancers or singers.
20:10Even last night we had two nominees for the Academy Awards, right?
20:14The short story finished.
20:15That's what we're reminded of.
20:17There is Joe and Tom.
20:19Europe for an Academy Award.
20:24No, it's really a wonderful story.
20:26Of the one place, well, there are many places we interact.
20:29I mean, if you can see some of the youth programs, a lot of uh the kids come out of those youth programs, especially when they're in their neighborhoods.
20:36Uh but even the arts garden when since we own and operate the arts garden, every year in the holidays, we invite city uh choirs, uh schools to come and perform for their families and uh for residents.
20:47So we've got that connection, but you will see so many young people that were a part of so many of these programs that go on.
20:53When you think about yes, the children's museum, but then you also see Asante Children's uh performances and Freetown Village and and some of the dances and just it it's endless.
21:04Um we have that connection and we will continue that connection.
21:07Yeah, we fund and support a lot of those youth serving organizations, um, but then we also partner with Butler Center for Arts Education and Innovation.
21:15Um so we're trying to kind of build our um education arts education side of of things um in the coming years, and then we're also trying to look for funding in terms of workforce development, trying to help artists at every stage of their career.
21:29So, you know, the high school diploma requirement, can we feed some of those high school students into arts path career pathways?
21:36How are we um supporting college students that are studying um in the fields of of the arts with paid opportunities or placements and things like that?
21:44So our strategic plan called for a lot of that.
21:46We're trying to raise funding and find strategic partnerships um with uh workforce and youth um employment sort of uh organizations to explore that further.
21:56And did I say that those two that were nominated were North Central grads?
21:59Go Panthers class 85.
22:01I just want to say it again.
22:02And I was proud of that because both of my kids went there.
22:08Any other questions or yes?
22:12I have one uh thanks for coming in.
22:14Uh very informative presentation.
22:16I have one question.
22:17Could you review and just briefly?
22:19Uh you did mention a survey and that sort of thing, but relative to your own budget, could you review what opportunities for input from taxpayers there are to influence uh the good work you do?
22:34That's a good question.
22:34I think uh when we uh normally go uh in front of the parks committee, you know, the whole budget process.
22:41We do have a time where we have folks show up and talk about the importance of the arts and the impact, and we have a lot of arts organizations come and speak up.
22:48And of course, we want the general public to be able to say this is what makes us stay in Indianapolis.
22:52This is what gets us excited about Indianapolis and would love for them to um uh be able to give some input.
22:58We encourage people to talk to their city county counselors to say this is what is important to us, and we'd like to see further funding.
23:04Of course, I'd like to advocate uh uh for more funding as well, but we've got to we're not gonna raise taxes or anything.
23:10We want to be able to make sure are there other levers where we can get more funding when you compare to the other cities.
23:15You know, what where else can we can the city invest, and we need our residents to ask that question to the city councilors?
23:23We can't do that alone.
23:24We're working it on the inside as we can.
23:27Uh we we'd love to see a more robust budget.
23:30Would love to be able to invest more in the 103 and more coming on in the annual grants program.
23:36But we've we've been at 1.3 since 2000, what was it, eight?
23:41It's the same size pie, just a lot of smaller slices now.
23:44Yeah, that that's helpful.
23:45Uh I think a couple of months ago some folks came in a little late in the process, so I just want to understand kind of what been sort of thing.
23:54And I think I may have met with uh those folks to understand that this is not a competition, this is all within the city.
23:59We've got to work with each other and you know, what take from Peter to pay Paul, we've got to be able to work together and enhance what the city's all about.
24:09That probably gets me to my question as well.
24:11Um, because I mean it's a pretty wide variation on your kind of budget per capita.
24:16Um on your presentation.
24:20Um I assume most of that has to do with kind of public dollars that are dedicated, right?
24:24But are there any lessons learned for some of these other places where you know there are other creative ways, public, private, public and private, public private together, you know, um those partnerships.
24:37Repeat the work of that process.
24:40Um yes, both on the public and private side.
24:43Um so for example, Columbus is like they're a policy genius.
24:46They and for us, we have a uniga, right?
24:48So we have city county.
24:49Most of these cities are tapping into city funds, county funds, and state funds when it comes to to their public funding, um, as well as federal funds, which are more finicky um and and less GOS based and more um project based.
25:02So a lot of these folks, since we we have a city-county unigov, we can't dip double dip into county funds like some of these folks are doing.
25:10A lot of them are pulling tax levers.
25:12So for example, Cleveland in the last couple of years was able to increase the percentage they get from cigarette tax, and that goes directly into their arts and culture organizations, their arts and arts council, excuse me, who then re-grants it out to artists and arts organizations.
25:29Columbus is taking a percentage of ticket tax.
25:34So any any entertain any concert that comes, anything except for events from the Ohio State University, basically they get a percentage on that as well.
25:42So most of these cities are able to get um different um, they're able to kind of pull these other tax lovers and other ways of uh generating that kind of public funding.
25:53So those are those are some of the the things that we're looking at here also.
25:57You know, who where does that money go?
25:59Um, and then and you know, we can't just rely just on city funding and private funders.
26:03We're also trying to grow our pool of um folks that that know about what the work that we do, and that when you're supporting us, you're not just supporting us, you're supporting thousands of artists and hundreds of arts organizations.
26:15Most of the money that we that we raise is to be able to re-grant out so that residents and visitors can benefit from the arts and culture um sector here and the amazing work that folks are doing.
26:27So we're trying to get better at telling that story to bring in other contributors.
26:32It's you know, it's basically we have to pull all the levers at this point.
26:36Yeah, corporate dollars where we haven't gone after before, and individuals.
26:43And those details in our strategic plan are on our website.
26:46So there might be a flyer in there about our strategic plan.
26:49I can't remember, but our website is definitely listed in those packets, and then it outlines our very robust.
26:55You can even look at the feedback we got from residents in that.
27:00Thank you very much.
27:02Thanks for having us, and we appreciate your support.
27:11We just gave one more.
27:20Um now calling Joe Glass to update us on the current count uh current project.
27:27Well, thank you again, uh, Kabita and uh Deputy Mayor Emeritus Thomas for the presentation.
27:31We uh very much appreciate it.
27:33Um so at the uh meeting in March, uh the board approved uh $15 million uh in uh short-term notes for uh the stormwater management district.
27:41Um a proposal from JP Morgan Chase was selected uh from about uh 12 uh proposers.
27:47Um and on March 10th, we closed um uh $15 million in North notes with JP Morgan Chase uh for a term of uh three years at a fixed rate of 3.12 percent.
27:57Um so those funds will be available for the stormwater district, and we anticipate issuing long-term debt um before that three-year period to take out the notes.
28:06Um coming up, we uh anticipate issuing uh 40 million dollars in street infrastructure debt um in 2026.
28:13Um we'll have more information on the timing of that um at our at our next meeting.
28:18Um if there's no questions about that, we have uh we'll have a brief market update from uh our financial advisor um Diana Hamilton.
28:31Um I gave you all uh copy of um uh but uh it's it's dicey out there is I guess the short answer.
28:42Um so obviously the the war in Iraq is dominating the headlines, it's certainly driving uh both the bond and the uh stock markets at this point in time.
28:53Uh oil was down this morning, it was below 100, but um Straits of Hormuz, which is if you've looked at any of the pictures, is only 12 miles across at one point.
29:04Uh that's where 20% of all the world's oil um uh flows.
29:08And so um you've got a combination of factors um at work here.
29:14Um there's a lot of concern about the employment picture.
29:17Uh the jobs numbers have now been revised downward um fairly dramatically uh in the last three months.
29:25So we've seen declines, you know, December, January, and February.
29:28Um so we have a weak job market.
29:31Um we actually saw a decline in in the most recent number, but that it was to some extent um it influence but the Kaiser Permanente, which is a huge health care system was on strike, and so uh unfortunately health care has been the largest single source of employment.
29:48Um, as you probably have seen, there have been announcements by numerous firms about layoffs due to uh AI.
29:55We talked about that a little bit um last month.
29:58I think that's still an evolving situation.
30:01Um, but certainly there are firms who are acting uh preemptively.
30:05Overall, it's what we would recall a low hire, low fire environment.
30:10Um you've actually seen some payroll grains that were pretty healthy, um, 3.8% annually.
30:16Um so that's better than better than expected.
30:21Um the unemployment rate has been edging up.
30:26Um some of the negative news there is that more people are staying unemployed for longer periods of time.
30:32So um if you've got a job, I would suggest you keep it.
30:37Um but um and then obviously there was there's been year over year a very large decline in federal employment.
30:43That's down 330,000 uh overall since the administration um came.
30:49And then um, so I think there's a lot of uncertainty.
30:53The Fed will be meeting this week, so you won't see any comments.
30:56They'll be out on Wednesday afternoon.
30:58Um Powell, there's not any expectation for a rate decrease with inflation kind of creeping up, and then but there's a lot of concern about what's happening in the labor market and what's noise and what's real, and the same thing.
31:14I think for a while they thought tariffs was going to be transitory in terms of its impact inflation, but now um, for instance, um on the most recent inflation numbers, which were actually somewhat um benign, uh if you took out food and energy, which of course none of us need food or energy, uh inflation was 2.9 percent, but that's before the Iran War.
31:36So when you start to factor in, you know, both uh like for instance food, uh the the uh Iran war is having a tremendous impact on fertilizer prices.
31:46So these are all things that are gonna show up going forward.
31:50So that's I don't I guess I have a pretty picture.
31:54Um there's not an immediate hope for a rate uh decrease at this time.
31:58We did have a nice uh I'm glad to say that we locked in Joe, Karen and I kind of debated we did a rate lock with JP Morgan.
32:06So we actually locked in the interest rate before we closed the transaction, and as luck would have it, I'd like to say lucky versus smart.
32:14Um we kind of hit the low point in the market.
32:17So anyway, that was that was that.
32:20But if you got any questions, I'm sorry.
32:25Well, I guess we're gonna have a new Fed share in May.
32:29I guess could you share like what are some maybe expectations around that?
32:34Um I think there's a fair amount of concern.
32:37In the past, Kevin Harsh actually was nominated by Trump in his first term and served actually as vice chair of the Fed for a period of time.
32:46At that time, he was what they would have called hawkish on inflation, meaning he was much uh less interested in in loosening interest rates, particularly if there were signs of inflation.
32:58Um obviously, as you know, the president's been adamant about lowering interest rates and has tried to go about it about it any way he can, including um uh as you know, charging uh Chairman Powell with trying to investigate him with the Department of Justice, which got overturned last week.
33:16So there's a concern when Powell leaves, but you definitely have splits on the Fed, and I think there's concerns going forward about the ability of the Federal Reserve to maintain its independence, particularly since you've got three more years of the current administration, and Harsh has uh in the past demonstrated or in the recent period demonstrated its loyalty to the president.
33:39So I think there's a concern there.
33:46Is there any other discussions?
33:51That being the case, um can I entertain a motion to close?
33:58So moved all in favor say aye.
34:06We're shutting down.
34:10Thank you for all coming.
34:12Yes, thank you, Jim.