Well, welcome you to the regular monthly membership meeting of the Marion County Alliance of Neighborhood Associations.

We go by the acronym McCannna, but I was reminded recently that everybody has their own acronyms, and you can't always assume that when you're using an abbreviation that somebody knows what you're talking about.

So my name is Kathy Burton.

I'm the current president for McCana.

We are, I went last and I want to welcome everybody for coming.

This is our last meeting of the year.

We do not meet in December.

But before we get started, I want to kind of review what McCannna is and how we got started for those people who are here in person as well as those who are watching on channel 16 and 28.

We were founded in 1990 as a 501c3.

We are what our name says.

We are Alliance of Neighborhood and Homeowners Associations from all over Marion County.

And our purpose is to connect neighborhoods with each other to discuss issues that are affecting people countywide, as well as issues that are specific to our own neighborhoods in order to lend support to each other, share experiences, resources, and kind of help each other out so that we're not all starting over every time an issue covered up in our neighborhoods.

And as Merrian County continues to grow and develop, we have certainly learned over the last have to do the math.

40 years, 30 years, that what happens in somebody to somebody across the county can indeed affect us.

We can't just assume that what's going on in our backyard that we're the only ones that are affected.

And we certainly do need to lend support to each other.

We do meet on the third Saturday of every month except for December.

We meet from 9 to 11 a.m.

at North United Methodist Church, which is at 38th and Meridian.

And for those who are watching, that is available and available and access accessible from the Indigo bus line.

So if you use public transportation, you will still be able to get here.

As we have found, everybody who's involved in neighborhoods is always very busy and can't always make meetings in person, and so we are fortunate that Channel 16 comes in and records our meetings and then airs them throughout the month on Channel 16 and then moves to channel 28 so that people who are interested in neighborhood issues and the things that are going around in our city can still stay up to date and stay connected regardless of whether they can make a meeting in person.

And so we are very fortunate as a city to have that resource available to us, and we want to thank them for their continued.

I don't know the right word to use, but letting people be able to use the airwaves and the channel and the government channel to connect with each other.

And we also want to thank North United Methodist Church, who has hosted our meetings, I think, since before the dinosaurs.

But they do make our church available to us, and since it's centrally located, that means neighborhoods from all over Marion County can get to us if they can navigate the road construction.

So good luck with that.

At our membership meetings, we always have speakers that address issues that are of interest to neighborhoods.

And if anybody ever has a suggestion for our speaker that they would like to have come in or a topic that they would like to have addressed, we certainly welcome your suggestions.

If you want to reach McCana, you can do so either through our Facebook page or you can reach me by phone at 317-847-9959.

I also can get texts that way.

We do have a PO box, and it's PO Box 1082, Indianapolis 46206.

But I don't get down at the post office box every day, and so if you're trying to reach us in a hurry, I suggest that you do so through one of those other three methods.

With that, I want to tell you that our next meeting, however, will be on January the 17th, weather permitting.

And I am still working on a speaker for that meeting.

We hope to invite back Todd Wilson, who is the director for the DPW.

But of course, being January, sometimes weather events happen.

So but as I said, the speaker will be announced, and again you can reach us through or see on the Facebook page who our speaker is going to be.

With that, I am going to ask if there is anyone that has an event coming up in their neighborhood that they would like for other people to know about.

Our next big community event is on Saturday, December the 6th.

It's Christmas in Wanamaker, one of the main streets that goes through the township.

There'll be a parade at 1 o'clock.

It is from 10 to 3 vendors and craftsmen and community organizations from all over the township and beyond.

We'll be there too for people to come and enjoy some holiday activities and craftsmanship and booths where you can do some great Christmas shopping.

There'll be pictures with Santa, and as I said, there's a parade at 1 o'clock.

Also in Franklin Township, we are currently having our community Christmas drive, which is now 44 years old, or 54 years old, where we um collect new clothing and toys and food for families in the township that are facing some challenges so that we can provide some support from them for the holiday.

And if you want to find out what you can do to help with that Christmas drive or make a donation, you can reach us through our Civic League website, which is FTCivic Lead.org.

Having said that, if there's nothing else, uh Pat, sorry.

Um well, happy holidays, everyone.

I don't know why petitioners always seem to take the worst um uh impact uh petitions and voiced them on us during the holidays, but that is what we're dealing with in Decatur Township.

Um there is a proposal for a data center, a 250 megawatt data center.

Uh on Tuesday, uh this month um was that the 18th.

Um, they already have a petition schedule.

They've submitted um on the 18th.

The uh petitioners are having their own open house glossy artist renderings as you like.

Um, the Decatur Township Civic Council land use committee, though, will be meeting on um December 18th, and the public is welcome.

We will have you ask some of our nerdy questions, but then we'll open it up for questions from the public.

That is going to be held um in the community room of the Decatur Township School for Excellence, which is on South High School Road.

Um, and again, everyone's welcome.

That's at 6 o'clock, December 18th.

Um, and it will be regarding the data center.

Um, I will say that later on on our agenda, um, we are going to have a discussion about a policy decision from McCannna regarding the data center.

McCannna has several policy decisions.

Um things like digital billboards, um, the sale of liquors in gas stations, um, the the preservation of woodlands and in Mary County and trying to preserve some of those.

Data centers have kind of become a very hot topic.

Um, there was one in Franklin Township that was withdrawn before it went to hearing.

Um, but now there is one pending in Martindale Brightwin Brightwood, which is a smaller one.

There's one um being proposed in Decatur Township, and I understand Pike Township is also has one being proposed.

So we are going to discuss whether this is a uh subject where it's appropriate for McCannna to take a policy decision in general about the appropriate location and parameters of data centers in Marion County.

Is there anything else anybody has to announce?

Okay, then we will go to our speaker for this morning, who is Marion County prosecutor Ryan Mears.

We thank you very much for giving us part of your Saturday morning to come up and discuss the prosecutor's office.

He's going to discuss some things in general about the prosecutor's office, and then we will open it up to questions and answers.

I do want to caution people as I understand it, and if I'm incorrect, let me know, that if people have questions about specific cases, um, prosecutor Mears probably can't discuss those for legal reasons, and he'll let you know that.

Um, this is more of a general overview of the prosecutor's office, how it operates, the challenges that it may face, and the role that it plays in governance in Marion County.

So with that, Ryan, thank you very much for coming out and talking to us this morning.

I'm gonna let you take the take the wheel and we'll go from there.

Okay, one wonderful.

I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

My name is Ryan Mears.

I'm the Marion County prosecutor.

I've been the uh elected prosecutor since 2019, but I've worked in the prosecutor's office since 2006.

Uh I'm from Indianapolis.

I attended Cardinal River High School.

Uh, from there I went to St.

Joseph's College and Rensselaer and then came back to law school here.

And my very first job at a law school was in the prosecutor's office.

Um I'm always been someone who's been really interested and committed to public service.

Uh, I think that comes from from my parents.

My dad worked in insurance.

My mom was a teacher, and my mom loved going to work every day, and my dad not so much.

And so it was one of those things where I saw that every single day and thought to myself, hey, I want something that I'm gonna get look, you know, look forward to and be excited to go to to work every day.

And one of the coolest things that would happen when we were growing up is we'd be at a restaurant, we'd be out somewhere, and someone would come up to my mom and say, Hey, you taught me how to read because she was a first grade teacher.

And just really seeing the impact, the positive impact that you could have on someone's life was something that that I was hoping to get out of my job.

And so I started at the prosecutor's office in 2006.

I've literally had every job in the building.

I you know was uh initially a misdemeanor prosecutor.

We prosecute the low-level offenses, and then you know, like to think I did a pretty good job and was able to work my way up in the prosecutor's office to where I was eventually handling uh homicide cases, and was was the person kind of in the courtroom uh standing up for people who could not stand up for themselves and really enjoyed the the experience and the opportunity to prosecute homicide cases.

It was a great opportunity to bring justice for families who are going through just unimaginably difficult situations, and uh for whatever reason, through strange twist of fate, I I somehow got involved in the political process because prosecutor Curry uh became very sick and ultimately passed away and had to step down, and then from there uh I was fortunate enough to be elected in 2019.

Uh I was re-elected in 22.

And and so I've been the elected prosecutor here now since since then.

Uh just to kind of give you an overview of where we're at in the prosecutor's office.

Um, we are by far the largest prosecutor's office in in the state.

We have around 420 employees, uh, 180 of those individuals are deputy prosecutors.

Uh, we're gonna handle somewhere around 30,000 cases this year.

Uh so we'll file uh when you consider uh all the different areas that we touch.

Uh we'll we'll probably be somewhere right around 30,000 cases are the ultimate output of the prosecutor's office.

Um the cases that have a tendency to get the most attention are the homicide cases.

Uh right now we've done last I checked, we've gone to trial 36 times in uh as it relates to murder cases, and we've won 33 of them.

The three that we lost were all the same issue, self-defense.

Uh, I would say the biggest change that I have seen in the 20 years that I've have been a prosecutor is the issue of self-defense.

Uh self-defense is very much just based on was someone's actions reasonable under the circumstances and what was reasonable 20 years ago uh and what is reasonable today are are two different things uh two different standards, and a lot of that stems from the fact that there's a lot of people in our community walking around with firearms.

Uh, there's a lot of people in our community walking around with guns, and and and so that's just kind of the new reality that we are dealing with as prosecutors.

Uh we have when I gave the budget presentation in August, we had filed 56 homicide cases at that point in time in the year.

Uh, of those 56 homicide cases, does anybody want to take a guess as to how many of those what the criminal history was like of how many how many people think of those 56, what percentage had prior felony convictions?

100%?

Who said that?

Okay.

Anyone else?

25%.

25%.

You have a guess?

98%.

98%.

Uh 23 of those individuals have never been arrested before.

Their very first defense.

And it speaks to these issues of uh most of our cases now involve confrontations.

When I started as a prosecutor, we had three general categories of homicide cases.

We had domestic disturbance, we had drug-related, and we had robbery gone back.

Those were the three main categories.

Now, our largest category is disputes, arguments.

And that is what we are dealing with consistently, and a lot of times it is people who have otherwise not been involved in the criminal justice system, now find themselves in the criminal justice system because they get into an argument.

I can tell you of those cases that I have seen, uh, people are literally losing their life over nothing.

Uh people are losing their life over honking their horn, people are losing their life over a parking spot, people are losing their life over uh social media beefs.

There's just a number of things where we see people who are falling victim to gun violence, and the circumstances surrounding when they lose their life is just you know, just so disappointing because these are issues that truly do not matter.

And it's something that we consistently see in our community, and that's one of the things that uh is disappointing to me because we deal with the the end product of that dealing with families.

Uh I met with a grandmother just the other day in the case where uh it is alleged that uh someone honked their horn and they lost their life.

I mean, those those are the toughest conversations you were gonna ever have with a family uh because their son, grandson didn't do anything wrong, and he lost his life.

Uh and and so that is really what we are struggling with as a community.

If you look at the overall homicide numbers, we're down 45 from last year.

So last year at this time we were somewhere around 180 homicide incidents.

Right now we're we're right around 140.

Uh so we're down 40 to 45 uh homicide incidents.

But if you take a look at these incidents that are occurring, it just really makes you shake your head and you become really frustrated because people in our community are losing their life over things that should not matter.

I mentioned our homicide conviction rate.

We're 33 for 36.

I'd love to tell you it's because we have that conviction rate because I'm the greatest prosecutor in the world.

But it really does stem from all the advances in technology that have been made.

When I prosecuted my first homicide case in 2009, it was that guy saw somebody do it.

That was my case.

Now we don't even prosecute that case.

Now our cases are entirely based on your cell phone devices.

Everybody's walking around with a GPS device.

Everybody is constantly communicating with one another.

And to uh for those who are young people, or for those of you who know people, know young people, you know that they are addicted to their phones, and they insist on posting and memorializing every single thing that they do, which makes our case that much easier.

And so when we are able to build these cases and we're able to determine and figure out who's involved in these things, we are able to build really strong cases because we get all that cell phone data.

We get that GAPS location data, we get their social media information.

We know who they're talking to and what they're talking about, and we've never been in a position to build stronger cases.

And so I think back to 2008, 2009 to how we prosecute how we prosecute cases to how we prosecute cases now, it is fundamentally different.

And the amount of data and information that we get on a single homicide case is probably 20 times greater than what we had when I started as a prosecutor.

And so, but I think the the benefit of that obviously is we have an incredibly high conviction rate, but also we have great confidence in the people that we're convicting, and I think that should hopefully be important to everybody in this room that we're identifying the right people and that we're leveraging and using technology in a way that that hopefully ultimately benefits the people in this community by being in a position to hold people who are involved in violent crime uh accountable.

So that's that's that's kind of that side of the office.

The second part of it is uh we have a real problem with lack of housing opportunities in the city of Indianapolis, and we see it every single day.

Uh I like to think I'm a fairly well-connected person, I can get people jobs, I can do a lot of things to help people out.

It is nearly impossible for me to get somebody into housing, and that is something that we consistently see in our failure to act and respond to people who need housing has so many downstream effects.

And I will tell you as a prosecutor, we're in the courtroom every single day, and when we see someone when they become housed unhoused, and they walk into that courtroom that first time on a criminal trespass or whatever the case might be, they look a certain way, they act a certain way, and then we set a pretrial conference out for 30 days, and then from there we set a pretrial conference out for another 30 days and another 30 days, and we watch as that person deteriorates, we watch their mental health deteriorate, we watch their physical health deteriorate.

And if we had actually addressed the solution in the problem the first day when they walk into that courtroom, we wouldn't be dealing with all these downstream effects.

But the criminal justice system isn't really equipped to do it, and the city hasn't done a good enough job of providing supportive housing options for people who need to be housed, and so as a consequence, what you know, a person walks in, they maybe have two problems.

By the time we we get the case over with, they've got 30 problems.

And if you want someone or if you think someone is gonna be able to work on their addiction issues or their mental health issues when they're sleeping on the street every night, that's just not a reality.

And we have to be honest about that and say if we're serious about solving these problems, if we're serious about resolving these root cause issues, we have to have meaningful resources and opportunities for people, and if we have those resources and opportunities, we're gonna be way better off, and it's gonna be way cheaper.

But it starts with having a legitimate housing option for so many different people in our community that we just don't have right now.

And if the solution is for people to go back out onto the street, it doesn't benefit anybody in our community, and it just complicates and magnifies every single problem uh that that individual has.

You know, for me as a prosecutor, I want to be an outcome-oriented person, meaning how can we get the best outcome that ultimately benefits the people involved in the case as well as the community as a whole, but we also have to have the tools and resources to be able to do that, and so it's really critical, and and I'm talking in front of a really engaged group of individuals that we are engaged on this issue of housing, and when we have conversations about housing, uh, that everybody has that type of mind of if people don't have places to live, we're gonna see them involved in the criminal justice system.

Uh, one of the things that we can do as a prosecutor's office is oftentimes a barrier to people getting into housing is their prior criminal history.

We have a real problem with people discriminating against people who have a prior criminal convictions in the housing market.

You are not going to be eligible for a lot of housing.

And so one of the things that we do is we do our second chance fairs every single year where we offer people the opportunity to get India has an incredible expudgment law where you can get criminal convictions removed from your record, but it's not intuitive, and access to justice is a real problem.

So this law exists, but how are able people able to take advantage of it?

And so what we do with these second chance fairs is we have people uh from all around the community come in, volunteer, help serve as attorneys, we as prosecutors help walk them through the process, and we help people get convictions taken off their record.

I started doing this when I became prosecutor in 2019, and we do surveys.

Why are people interested?

Why are people participating in this program?

And the very first year we did it, almost everybody did it for a job.

I need to get this felony off my record because I'm unemployed or I'm underemployed, I need it to get a job.

Now, when we do it, the number one reason people participate is to get housing.

I can't find housing, no one will rent to me because of my criminal conviction.

Uh, and so we do that, and we also work on driver's license issues.

Uh, we help people get their their driver's license.

Uh anybody having guesses of how many people are driving without a uh driver's license here in Marion County right now?

Way too many.

What do you think the number is?

They're prize if we get the answer right.

Yeah, maybe it's it it's about a hundred thousand.

Uh and I got news for everybody, those people are still driving.

And so what we try to do with our second chance events is help people who made honest mistakes and get them get to get their driver's license back.

Uh, I live not too far from here, right off of 38th Street.

If you're driving 120 miles an hour on 38th Street, I do not want to help you.

Uh, this is not who I'm talking about because bad drivers drive me crazy.

So please, it's it's not that.

But what we do see is we see a lot of people who get pulled over for a ticket, maybe they didn't come to a complete spot stop, maybe they're in a hurry on a particular day, and then they don't have 180 dollars to pay that ticket.

And because they don't have 180 dollars to pay that ticket, the BNB suspends their driver's license and says, not only do you have to pay us that 180 dollars, you don't have to pay us that 500 reinstatement fee.

Uh, and people just don't have that money.

And if they do have that money, they're not gonna spend it there.

And so what we do at our second chance fair is we look work to set aside those judgments and set aside those reinstatement fees because I want people to spend their money on insurance.

I want people to pay for insurance because all of these individuals need the high risk insurance.

Guess what you have to do on the high-risk insurance?

You have to pay it up front.

So, what we do with these second chance fairs is we look to clear out that backlog.

We have resources where we can help some people actually pay and get their SR22, get their drive, which is the the high-risk insurance, and what we do with this is we help get people get their driver's license and we help people get insurance because I want people driven driving on the street legally, and I want people driving on the street with insurance.

Uh why do we do this?

Why do we invest so much time and energy into this?

Because I was legitimately naive that there's a lot of jobs where you have to have a driver's license.

Employers want to know hey, are you gonna be able to get to work?

And we're not on the bus line.

So I'm not gonna hire you if you are dependent upon rides from friends and family.

That's not what we're gonna do.

And so we've worked really hard to do this.

The other thing is we want to improve that relationship between law enforcement people in the community because what happens is when you're driving, every single time you go to work to school, to church, to the grocery store, whatever, you're looking over your shoulder every single mill.

And that's number one, a terrible way to live, but number two, it also heightens that tension between people in the community and law enforcement.

Is this gonna be the day where I'm gonna go to jail?

And unfortunately, sometimes people take off, and people uh involved in in situations and actions that can ultimately have a tremendous impact on public safety in Marion County, and those are the things that we're trying to avoid.

Uh, I'm proud of these workshops because people walk out of there feeling like they have an opportunity for success.

Uh, I cannot tell you how many people walked out of there crying because they never thought it was gonna be possible that they were gonna get their driver's license back.

They never thought it was gonna be possible that they were gonna find that way into housing, and those are the things that we're trying to build towards, and you know, we do our second chance fair in all the different townships, but we do our big one at Gambridge Field House.

And you know, it just so happened that when we did it this year, it was in the middle of the NBA finals.

And when you went down there to Game Bridge Field House, we had a line wrapped all the way around Pennsylvania Street of people who were trying to get get help.

And what that tells me as a prosecutor is we have a lot of people in our community who want to get help.

We just have to give them access to meaningful resources that make a difference.

And when you do that, people would take advantage of them.

And hopefully, we're getting people on the right path.

Because I can tell you as prosecutor, if I get people working, and if I get people into housing, I'm probably not going to see them.

And those are the types of things that we can do that hopefully will have a meaningful impact on recidivism and keep people out of the criminal justice system, which is why we try to spend uh so much uh energy and effort on trying to help people when they come back into our community.

Uh one one guy that I was talking to said I was okay with doing the time, I just didn't know it was gonna be a life sentence because this thing follows me around every single place I go, and it's true, and so when we see those types of things and we have an opportunity to make a difference, I think it's critically important that we do the things to hopefully try to help people get in a better position than they otherwise would have been in, and hopefully we don't see them again uh in in the criminal justice system.

I feel like I've been talking for too long.

No, no, no, I think people need to understand the issues that the the county is facing and how the prosecutor's office plugs in trying to get those resolved.

Okay, and then I guess the the last thing I'll talk about is gun violence, and in particular as it relates to young people.

Um I just told you that you know we're able to solve a bunch of cases because of social media, uh, because of what people are doing on their phones.

I can tell you as it relates to young people, most of our violence is directly related to what goes on online.

There are too many people who uh don't live in the real world, they live in uh Instagram, they live in TikTok, they live in uh these fictitious social media worlds, and so when someone says something negative about them, it it is completely magnified and taken out of context, and I cannot tell you how many cases that we have seen where people are victims of real life violence because of what is being said on social media.

Uh that is especially true amongst young people, and so the the internet is a great powerful tool that can connect us, we can communicate with one another, we have access to all of this information, but it can also be utilized in a way that ultimately is going to uh have a detrimental impact on our community because we sue too many people fighting with one another online, and those online beefs unfortunately result in real life violence.

Uh, we spend a lot of time talking to people and listening to people, and in particular young people, trying to figure out what we can do.

We have our youth violence prevention fellows uh where we bring them in to have conversations uh about what's going on with young people.

Uh, but more importantly, what we're trying to do is not only develop programming that will hopefully appeal to young people, but we're it's it's really a leadership class because what we need is young people to be leaders in our community.

Uh, when you talk to young people, they're not really interested in what I have to say, and no offense to anybody out there, they're not really interested in what you have to say.

Uh, like most young people, they care about what their friends think, and what we're trying to do is how can we build build leaders in their neighborhood, in their community, in their block, on their team, to be the person to say, hey, you don't need to respond with violence.

Be the positive voice, be the poor, you know, the voice of reason and help kids understand the level and the amount of potential that they actually have and that they're gonna throw it all away because someone said something about you online.

Uh, as I always tell people, that's not real life.

No one looks that good, no one has that much money.

Uh, that's not how life actually works.

And and so those are some of the things that we're trying to build with young people.

We try to do it through sports.

We do a soccer clinic, we do a basketball clinic uh to try to build those relationships with with young people and establish that sense of identity, but also that self-esteem to be strong enough as a leader and as a person to walk away from those circumstances and help your friends walk away from those things.

Uh, we you know, we partnered up with with Don Carlisle, who's the coach at Ben Davis High School, and every Saturday morning he worked with about 40 to 50 kids uh played basketball, but also there was a bunch of life lessons involved in that.

Ben Davis is one of the best programs in the in the state of those 40 or 50 kids, maybe one of those kids will ever have a chance of playing at Ben Davis High School.

That wasn't the point.

The point was we're trying to help these kids develop into leaders at Ben Davis.

We're trying to help these kids develop to have a stronger sense of self-worth and identity to dream big and think about all the things that they could potentially do.

And basketball was just the hook to get them in the building, and then we're trying to do all these other things with these kids, and I think it was a successful program because we're trying to invest in these kids and demonstrate that hey, we can make a difference.

People in the community all the time ask me, they say, What can I do to help young people?

And the one thing that I can tell you that absolutely works is mentorship.

When people invest in young people and say, Hey, I'm committed to you and I'm here to help you, that is what works.

The challenge is it's really tough because young people don't need you at three o'clock on a Thursday, they need you at 2 a.m.

on a Saturday.

And so it's it's a challenge for people, but that's what young people are looking for, and what young people need.

And when you ask young people, hey, what do you guys want?

Uh we got a great partnership with the the boys and girls club.

We just did an event where these were the questions we asked them.

They want a safe place to go.

Uh they want to feel value.

And they want to know what what's the path forward.

Like, how do I get to where I'm trying to go?

Uh how can someone help me understand this is what I need to do if I want to be uh a lawyer, if I want to be a basketball coach, if I want to be a social media influencer, which a lot of people unfortunately said.

Um those are the things that young people were looking for, and they're not asking for a lot, but we have to demonstrate that investment into young people because if they don't, we're gonna fall victim to these other things.

Um I will tell you enforcement has to be part of the solution.

Uh, and not everybody likes it when I say that, but it's true because there are young people in our community who need uh that enforcement from the criminal justice system.

I will also tell you that the vast majority of kids in this community are good kids, they just need number one better adults or number two, they need that sense of self-worth, that confidence to do the right thing and not get caught up in some of the the shenanigans and the craziness that exists online and and maybe potentially in their school.

Uh and and so those are some of the things that that we're trying to do that we're trying to work on uh in our community.

Uh, we have great partnerships with people around the community who are really invested in young people who are really trying to make a difference, and and I appreciate the the efforts that everybody's making uh to to try to help these kids.

The challenge that we have is it's never been easier for young people to have access to a gun.

Every time I talk to a group of young people, my first question to them is if I go through your Instagram feed, if I go through your social media feed, how many people how many people or could if they wanted to buy guns or a drug online?

And they all raise their hand.

Uh they're all being very honest.

And so, you know, with guns, you used to kind of have to know somebody.

Uh, now because everybody's walking around with a gun, it shouldn't surprise people that those guns are making their way to kids because people are irresponsible with guns.

Uh they leave them in their cars unlocked, they forget them places.

It happens every day.

And inevitably, these kids end up with guns, and when they end up with guns, it's a you know, just terrible things happen uh in in our community.

I'll stop there on that very uplifting mode moment.

Okay.

Um, well, as you know, I've written an entire string of questions down, but the audience gets to ask questions first.

I'm gonna pause for just a moment, if we could, and ask.

I know we had a mayor's neighborhood advocate come in.

We usually have them do you know make any announcements prior to the speaker.

So I'm gonna pause and see if we can ask her if she's got anything that she wants to announce.

And in the meantime, y'all can be writing your questions down and getting all of your language perfectly formulated.

Um, so anything from the mayor's neighborhood advocate.

Yes, I'll I'll have there.

Okay.

Make it easier, and I appreciate your patience.

No worries.

Yes.

She's a form.

Yes, as the flyers here with me.

Um, good morning, everyone.

My name is Susan Martinez.

I'm the mayor's neighborhood advocate for this part of town for the New Northwest.

So I have some updates from the city that I'd like to share.

Um, so we are putting together um food events all throughout the month of November.

So let me pull that up here.

Um, we have two this weekend, so two today, and there are a number of those that will be going on for the rest of the month.

Um, some including um at Turkey and Thanksgiving staples there as well.

Um, they get pretty packed.

Um, the lines get really full very quickly.

So please get there early.

Um, if anyone is interested in these events.

I also have some flyers and I'll be leaving on the table up there with um IPS food pantries and our um after-school meals service that is run through our indie parks.

Also wanted to share.

So I wanted to talk about about our birth fund, but it got so full of applications that we're we're closing the applications for now.

But our birth fund just opened on November 5th.

This is a program where mothers would receive cash for their first three years of their baby's life.

So that first stipend would be 1175 or 1125, I believe.

Um 750 would be the um stipends that follow for the first 21 months of life, and then for the remaining months, they will receive 350, I believe.

So we're accepting a hundred participants for this route of the program.

Now the applications are closed, but we do ask that if you know anyone that is interested in this program, um, still sign up as we're looking to expand the program in the future.

Also wanted to talk about illegal dumping.

As we enter um the holiday season and as it gets colder, we see more and more people illegally dumping throughout the city.

Um, especially here in Center Township.

I hear of a lot of people that um wake up one morning and see tires or concrete in their backyards.

So that's unfortunately very common.

Um this uh flyer has some tips on what you can do to help deter that to help um catch people in the act, because that's really the information that we need is identifiable information of either the vehicle or of the group that did the dumping that really helps us in being able to catch someone and uh find them in the future.

Um, there's also uh free signs through business neighborhood services that you can pick up from the city-county building.

Um you can attach those to your fence or wherever um you see uh kind of a dark spot there on your property where you feel that dumping might happen or where it has happened in the past.

Um they're basically large no dumping signs that say the fine that you can incur if you dump and um some more information, and on top of that, if if you do see some dumping on your property, you can always give a call to business neighborhood services if you receive a fine and sign an affidavit to say that you didn't dump that trash, they would come out for free and pick that up, and you can do that three times a year.

Also, I have some information here about the um energy assistance program, and this uh applications open October 1st, and they're open through I believe April.

Yes, and there's another EAP that's opening up soon, I believe that opens January 1st, and that's the United Way.

So if you if you don't see much luck with this one, you can always try that one at the United Way, and they're very helpful there.

But yeah, also wanted to chat about uh leaf season, so leaf collection season is now open.

So from November 5th to no November 10th, sorry, through December 5th, um, you can leave up to 40 bags of leaves uh on your trash pickup day.

Um, and a reminder that you can't burn leaves, you can't burn portions of trees that you've cut.

Um, make sure to include that in your trash with you on your trash day.

Yes.

What type of bags do we have to use for that?

Plastic bags.

Just the usual thin plastic bags.

Yes, that's right.

What was the day that it is again?

December 5th.

Any other questions for yes?

Is it in any consideration to put placing cameras?

Yeah, yeah.

So that's something that we encourage neighbors to do, especially in their portion of the alleyway to place a camera on their property to catch people in the act.

That is very helpful for us.

Um I know IMPD has placed cameras in the past around very um, you know, heavily trafficked areas by them, um, specific corners of the New Northwest and the East Side do have those cameras, but I can ask IMPD about putting them specifically in the alleyways in the future.

I certainly don't mean to react hysterically, but Councillor Mears was just talking about incidents that shouldn't turn violent but can and for those people who are inclined to dump illegally, you know, you need to remember if you're on somebody's property and they think you're doing something that you shouldn't be.

One of the results can be you're in my yard, I'm gonna get gonna take care of this.

So there, you know, illegal dumping is not risk-free, and I think sometimes kind of forget that because I know that people can confront each other, and you know, especially if it's in the middle of the night, you think somebody's in your backyard.

Your first instinct is I'm gonna protect myself and my property.

So, you know, if you've got if you've got trash dumping it beyond somebody else's property, is not the answer.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, we see a lot of that dumping take place on already abandoned lots or lots that are not well taken care of.

That's always something you can report to us through the mayor's action center.

If you do see a lot that's you know gets a lot of trash, gets a lot of accumulation.

If you do see a lot that's you know, gets a lot of trash, gets a lot of accumulation, you can always call the mayor's action center and report an unsafe building, or you can report illegal dumping at that site, and we can we can take a look at that and take care of that.

Ma'am, I think you had a question.

Yeah, too.

Um also what are the consequences when they use a gun to and they hit people because a lot of times they think, oh, well, and they're not an imminent threat to a person, they think they can just go shoot people.

Um although we've had uh the death recently of someone uh that was killed through a door.

There was another one where um Meridian Street, somebody turned into the wrong driveway and almost did that one night, and they said, oops, I don't want to get shot at, but because it looks similar to the street opening on Meridian that they can't do this.

I mean, you wanna address that?

Well, I'll tell you what, we'll have you address that in for just a minute.

We're gonna go with what more anyway, so I'll save up for his piece.

But the other thing is where can they get all this information?

An easy place for them to get this information.

So I I will leave the flyers on that back table.

No, but I meant for the people in police.

Oh, yes.

Um, so these are uh flyers that I gather through from the colours.

Or you gather from the different organizations.

Yes.

So somebody has to actually kind of dig around a little bit.

Yeah.

Or go through their social worker, is the social workers aware of this.

So uh so a mayor's neighborhood advocates um have this information.

Oh yeah, oh yes.

Yes, they would go through the normal website for a mayor and calendar.

Yeah, so you can you can visit nd.gov slash MA, I believe is our link.

Okay, good.

Yes.

The leaves that are collected, um, are they composited or are they sent to the incinerator?

I you know, I'm not too sure.

Um, I was chatting with someone from parks that was asking the same question.

And I can ask that question of the Department of Public Works.

I think that would be helpful for people, you know.

They go the landing page for the MNAs and they get the information, or any parts and they get the information about the leaves.

We often get the questions about what kind of bags.

Are they content posted or are they incinerated?

Those kind of general questions, if those answers could be posted so that people can see the answers to those questions.

Yeah, yeah.

So on indie.gov we do have a page that covers um trash collection and good tips and rules to follow when it comes to trash collection.

And I'll find that link before I leave and share it with the with the group.

And also like she was asking what do they do with the leaves?

And most communities I've been in, they use them for like highway composting and other things.

But the point is people want to know if it's just going to the incinerator, putting it in the bag may not be the best use of beliefs.

Yeah, I can definitely make that ask and have the person that comes next month bring that info.

Okay, any other questions for Miss Martinez?

Okay, thank you very much for the information.

And we're gonna now unhit the pause button and go back to prosecutor mirrors and see what kind of questions you have for him.

And if you don't have them, I got a whole bunch.

So yes.

Uh-huh.

I work in a senior citizen building.

And the young house come in, and so now they're sleeping in the community rooms.

They're using the restrooms in the elevators there, you know, coming in the kitchen, and because they put excess food in the kitchen, you're cooking, but they're driving the place.

They have called the police, just depends on the ship.

Some of the police tell them that's not our problem.

But this is where people live at what can they do in this 20?

What can they do?

Well, first of all, something needs to be done about that.

And and so I I'd love to and uh maybe I can follow up with you afterwards and and figure out where you're specifically located and what district you're you're in, and uh want to have that conversation with whoever uh is is involved in the decision not not to respond to that.

I mean, the the reality is it's trespassing.

Uh they don't have a right to be there, and there is a legal remedy to that.

Uh, and and so I would be more than happy to have that conversation with you.

Okay.

Okay, yes.

Staying on the unhoused, you mentioned we need more housing, more um because my my question is what ideas do you have?

What plans are starting?

What can we be doing to be involved in that?

Well, I'm I mean, I think the the the first thing is city leadership has to be willing to take on the responsibility of trying to solve the problem.

And uh one of the challenges is it's really difficult to get people who are unhoused housed.

Uh, these are individuals who have a ton of issues associated with them, and it's not just as easily as saying, hey, we need you to move in to this place.

And so you have to invest in the requisite support services to get those individuals housed.

And I think the other thing that you need to do is we have to leverage the criminal justice system some of these conversations.

Staying right here is no longer an option, and if you continue to stay here, we're gonna have to arrest you.

And uh get you know, provide a real housing option.

I think the other thing is it has to be a housing first solution, which means that the city has to have a master lease agreement where they are in charge of the property, they have access to the property and they can get people in to housing.

Um that's the most uh important thing, and we currently do not have that.

Um, and so if we have that master lease agreement, if we have that housing first model truly, where we can get people housed uh right away, I think that's the the most important thing.

Uh the other thing I want people to understand about the the scope of the problem is it's solvable today.

Today it's solvable.

The resources that it would take to achieve this are there, it's not cheap, but it can be done.

If we don't do anything about this, it's not going to be solvable.

Uh, the number of people who are going to require that housing is gonna far outstrip uh our capacity to house it.

And so we this really is an inflection point.

Like, if we get our act together right now and we utilize different properties where we can get people housed, uh, we could have a significant and meaningful impact right now.

If we don't do anything, uh this problem is not going away, it's gonna get worse, and then it becomes a much more difficult, if not impossible, problem to solve.

Uh so we need this housing first model to take place right now so we can get people housed, but it's got to be more than that.

You have to have supportive services with individuals.

These are all individuals who have a number of needs associated with them.

You can't ignore those other issues that those people are going to bring into uh wherever they are eventually located or housed, and so you have to have meaningful supportive services there so people can not only have access to food but they can deal with their mental health.

How can we get them on the appropriate medication?

How can we uh get them off of drugs?

Those are not easy things to do.

Uh, but we have to try because what we're currently doing is not working.

At the risk, I'll ask you, and I'll get to you in just a second, but at the risk of plain devil's advocate defending the speaker, and I apologize if I do that.

We often hear what is the answer, and then you hear things like city leadership needs to step in.

Sometimes it seems like we're just kind of passing the butt.

We all recognize there's a problem, we all recognize that there are people who should be in charge, but it just never really seems to come together.

So let me kind of reframe the question.

What could the prosecutor's office do in the process?

What resource can you bring to the table to help solve the solve the because there are things that you might recognize need to be done, but it's not in your purview.

Well, and that's the challenge.

You know, we I deal with victims and witnesses every single day who are unhoused.

Um, I can't, as I mentioned before, I don't have I'm not a landlord, I can't place people in in housing as much as I would like to.

You know, what we can do is we can you know help with the criminal convictions that prevent people from getting into housing or knock them off of housing lists.

Uh what we can do is we can, you know, we have a great partnership with Horizon House, and we work with Horizon House every single day to get people into housing.

Uh, but you know, Horizon House is doing the the majority of the heavy lift there, but we do have that partnership that that we try to do every single day.

Uh you know, housing is not directly related to the prosecutor's office.

It's it's just not where my frustration comes from is I see the problem, and the problem's directly related to housing.

I see the problem with people who are victims of crime, who are witnesses of crime, and people who are accused of crime, and I want to ultimately solve the problem in front of me and not just that individual case.

Okay, yes, okay, so to all of these questions, and thank you for leaning into that because that was kind of my my question.

Like what after working with this population directly are unhoused community members for three years, I adhere to the same thing, past the buck.

This this situation needs to go to this department.

What would it take for the prosecutor's office to support a housing project, even though you just said that it's not your lane?

I hear that, I understand that.

But what it takes is someone like you who knows that data has witnessed person after person be on that 30-day mark just deteriorate.

I can say that all day long until I'm blue in the face, I can speak it to all the departments, but you have the data, you have seen these people change in front of you.

So what would it take for the prosecutor or your office to come alongside someone who is working on housing?

Yeah, I'm I mean, the Horizon House is a perfect example.

I mean, we work with Horizon House every single day to try to get people housed.

Um the the challenge is scaling that up when there's no money in our budget to address that issue.

And to your point about the data, we all have the data.

Everybody knows it's a problem.

Like this is not some hidden information out there where people are like, oh man, I didn't know housing was a problem in Indianapolis.

Uh wow, that's that's it's mind blowing.

We all have access to the same data.

We know it's an issue.

It's just do we have the appetite to try to solve the problem?

And you know, when when you talk about the the prosecutor's office, like there's no there's no money in our budget, and when we talk have conversations with people about what role we can play in housing, it's like that's that's not why you're here.

You're you're not here to address housing.

That's this agency or this agency or this agency, and that's fine.

I think one of the things that we need to do though is we have to not only raise awareness about the issue, but also make sure people understand the sense of urgency that we have to have to address the problem.

And you know, we're on a million different committees that talk about this issue.

Uh let's like we don't need any more committees.

We need housing.

So I'm here to raise the urgency.

I'm here to say that there's a group of us that are not affiliated with the government and the city leadership that are have the appetite, and we need the the specifics, the psychological part that you're speaking to, that's the part that I think the the at-large community is missing.

They we have this blanket narrative of what these people are going through.

I see it every day when I go to work just like you see it.

But we've got to come together as I know it's not your lane, you don't have the the funds in your department, but we've got to come in a rally of community effort to say we're done talking about this being an issue, we all know it's an issue, we have the data to show it, but that psychological part that you just talked to, that's the part that we're missing at large because those periods of time that go on, that person does deteriorate, and the the crime that happens as that person goes on continues to increase as you already spoke to.

So we've got to find a way to come together to say, Ryan, I know it's not your lane, I know you don't have the funding, but we have a group of people over here that are ready to move.

Can you come along and just give an endorsement or or stand with us at at large to say we are doing this and we're not waiting on the city because the city and those projects you spoke about with Horizon House, we all know those take years and millions of dollars.

We don't have years.

Our city will go completely a wall if we wait years to keep trying to solve this solution.

We have to have micro solutions now leading up to the bigger problems or the bigger projects, excuse me.

So that's kind of where I'm I'm trying to dig in with you a little bit.

I've waited for you to have a public opportunity because I keep missing you, but this is really there's a pool of us that are ready to make action happen now because we don't want to see the city go that way.

Well, I've I have several hands going up and I've got it down in order, somebody just has to be patient here.

Just just one follow up on that.

That to me is uplifting to hear that we're just gonna I don't want to talk about it, I want to be about it.

I want to do something about it.

And so anytime I can partner up with somebody who wants to do that, so I look forward to having that conversation.

And and I I I apologize if like you can hear it in my voice, it's just so frustrating to me that we deal we do it the same way every single day, and then we're like, well, why do we get the same result?

I get it.

We many years ago at a family gathering at the end of a right real lengthy prayer.

One of the kids spoke up and said, talk talk talk.

When do we eat?

And that kind of is where we're at.

What can we do?

Paula?

Oh, Jack.

Or Jacqueline, sorry.

Um thank you so much for being here this morning.

And I want to tell you how much I appreciate the monthly newsletter that we receive with all the things that you all are doing in your office, and it's awesome, and I appreciate that.

And I forward that on to the rest of the community leaders.

Okay.

And I and that's part of the answer to the housing initiative, is that every month they publish a list of houses within the Indianapolis area that are up for auction.

Because city is trying to get them filled with somebody.

That would be an excellent way for you to feel the need for housing for the homeless.

And I suggest that we probably maybe get the mayor in here and ask him to maybe look at possibly using those houses before the strong lady just said.

Rehabbing the homes and putting those people in those homes and providing them with a um a tax there's a tax, a delay tax where they wouldn't have to pay taxes for a number of years.

Thank you, uh, prosecutors.

Yes, that would be an excellent way to utilize those properties, uh, provide them with the resources and the uh to help them to maintain the property as they get into the properties.

And I think that would be an excellent way to use those properties because right now they're trying to get people to bid on and buy them, rehab them, and use and they're using a for-profit versus anything else.

So that's a suggestion to the table.

Um, if I can add um to that thought, um, so we have our vacant to vibrant um that's exactly what I'm talking about, vacant to vibrant.

Yes, yeah.

So that program has now shifted to be the um new home for those properties that are you know are in our land bank that we want to provide to um people that are looking to rehab them and make them affordable housing.

And for those properties through the vacant survivor land bank, they have a specific price that's way lower than um than typical for people to purchase them for them to be affordable housing.

And then in addition to that, we also have a master leasing program through the city where um landlords can sign up to be on that master leasing program where we would own the lease with them, and then that would be an opportunity for us to provide people that need in are in need of housing with that housing there.

I'm familiar with with the process.

I'm suggesting those properties be given to the homes, and those homes be rehabbed so they can make a livable for them.

That would create jobs.

I mean, I I think we have to remember too that it isn't just a matter of putting them in the house, it's a matter of giving them the resources as you said to maintain it.

Exactly.

Although certainly they're living on the street now, but you know, they have they have to have the resources to pay the utilities and maintain the home, and you know, cut the grass and make sure the betters are not leaking, so it's not just a matter of saying, here's a roof over your head, which is a wonderful start, but it has to go beyond that.

It does, and then therefore I'm just simply saying we sit down and look at the list of things that they would be required to maintain, those are the things that should be entertained for a number of years to make sure that they do not backslide in the back on the street.

I mean, response or no, I I think it's great.

I I mean that that's exactly what we need.

Okay, you say while you're in here.

Um, so uh as we're having these conversations about housing and the role of the government within these issues, I also um want to highlight some of the programs.

I mean, I don't know if they're programs, but some of the work that we do as prosecutors within the prosecutor's office, um, you know, I am a deputy prosecuting attorney, but more often than not, I feel like a social worker because of all the people and all of the issues that I'm dealing with in court with these folks.

And so the problem solving court, for example, you know, like it's not a solution to a lot of the issues that we're talking about, but this problem solving court is you know, it's in partnership with the public defenders agency and a host of other individuals that kind of serve as a safety, like these safety rail guards for people who qualify for these um re-entry courts to go through and so they have before they're able to graduate from one phase of the program to the next, they have to be able to show that they're um you know, like making a good faith effort to improve the the well, like the outcome of their circumstances, and housing is a big part of that.

So again, like a lot of people who are social workers that are part of this program connect these individuals, um, and we have check-ins with them, you know, like on a uh every so often.

And I feel like that's really effective because you're following people through through the system and ensuring like okay, you're having issues getting to this to your treatment.

Here's a bus pass, like here's free resources.

How can we help you to the extent that we can um you know, to ensure that you're doing what you what you need to do to get to a stable place in your um home.

So I can share more information about that with you as we continue having these conversations.

Um and I know it's like a band-aid in the bigger scheme of things, but um, but yeah, it's it's helpful to have that information too.

Okay.

And we're gonna pat and then Dana and then Ellen.

I may just be misremembering, but it seems like it's been years.

Um I keep hearing it the with the Hogson administration about buying um ho uh vacant hotels.

Um I think there's some since the air long time ago now the airport um reorganized its front door.

Um has it has that not happened or has it happened?

No, it it it it has not happened.

Okay, Dana.

So I am the Bureau Chief for Environmental Health at the Marion County Public Health Department and housing and neighborhood health is one of my departments, and we have always considered housing a health issue.

So my question, I don't know if it's a question or a statement.

I know every year um we try to advocate to change the landlord tenant laws, and I know that it is has to be done by state legislators, and I and I know this, but we need help from the public because many of you know that landlords use the health departments the health department as a bully.

So if a tenant reports issues with their unit, they're also told if you tell the health department, I will evict you.

Oh yeah, um, they have seen it in writing.

Um even landlords have told us that we are being nosy, that we are not welcome in certain circumstances in certain buildings.

So we need help from the public in that.

We want you all to know that my housing inspectors are wonderful people, and I do a lot of them serve as social workers, and we have a social work department at the health department.

We often pull them in.

But we need help.

It is it's uh hard.

What kind of help could the general public give you?

Um, so when the legislature is in session, when you hear about a bill that we're working on, please be supportive.

Let them know that we need this.

Um there's no reason why the eviction rate in Indianapolis is as high as it is.

I know a couple years ago it was higher than New York City.

I don't know if that's still the case.

I haven't looked at that again, but we are struggling.

We are really struggling here.

And then the other thing I wanted to say, um, prosecutor Mirrors is that I worked with um Professor Silva on her program when I was in law school to do uh um expungements, and we really were a tar to get people their license back and IDs and things.

So just wanted to say that.

That's our probably one of our most robust partnerships is with uh Professor Silva and and her group to really lay the groundwork to do all the things we talked about, and to your point about the laws.

I went to law school here as as did you first day when you walk in in Indiana, it's not landlord tenant law, it's just landlord law because there are no laws that protect tenants in the state of Indiana, and people need to understand that, and that's why our eviction rates are so high, is because there's nothing that protects tenants in that process.

And so when you compare the eviction rate in the state of Indiana to the rest of the country, we're number one because that's what the laws are designed to do.

Okay, Ellen.

I heard uh several times on the news about a project that the mayor had started and they were going to go forward with it, and then it was put on rolled.

And now the last thing I heard, which was that they were going forward to build uh some kind of housing for homeless people.

Yeah.

So that would be wonderful if it still had the momentum to keep going forward.

I think the will is there maybe from the mayor's office and that, but I think it needs to come from the general public too.

Yeah, and I mean I'll I'll be honest with you, the low barrier shelter is not going to solve our problem.

No, we we need housing, and we're gonna spend millions of dollars on a low barrier shelter when those millions of dollars should be put into permanent housing.

Yeah, and you know, we've heard a number of suggestions that address that issue, and so part of this is just how we allocate our resources to this problem, and I am not in favor of the band-aid.

Let's try to actually address the problem.

Did you a question or okay?

I was in that housing is on both sides of the coin in that I just can't afford to pay rent, I got kids, and I just can't afford to keep paying as the rent key going up.

So now we're living in a car trying to find shelters versus the criminal side that's the can't because of the crime now, they've been indicted, they're also out.

How can you who should decide that they're now get to be neighbors?

I did nothing wrong, but I have to fear everything because I know you're a thief.

Right.

And we live next door to each other.

Should we get this outing begun?

But where is that done?

How would that be solved?

Well, uh, you know, no number one.

Let's look, let's hope that we're able to to address that problem in terms of you know, for people who are taking things and doing those things.

Hopefully, there's there's a path to prosecute those cases and and and make sure that we can deter or stop that behavior.

Uh but the point that you made when when you talked about the impact of people being evicted and living in their cars, you know, the the Indiana legislature's thrust the prosecutor's office into uh taking a look at school attendance and our kids involved in in absenteeism, and we have great relationships with a lot of the school districts, and most oftentimes the number one reason why kids don't go to school is because they don't have a stable place to live, they are going from bad hotel to bad hotel.

Um, Warren Township, we have a great relationship with, and they bend over backwards to try to help get kids to school.

And usually when we see kids that aren't in school, it's because they're living in a hotel at 21st in Shedland, and they're not living in great environments, and they don't have access to transportation to get to school, they don't have clean clothes, they don't have uh really any source of nutrition, and those are the types like the the consequences of not addressing housing are not just the person you see on the streets, it's impacting our kids, and it's impacting our kids' ability to learn because even if that kid shows up to school, they're not they're not ready to learn with everything that they just went through and everything that they had to experience the night before, and there are more and more kids that I see every single day who are going through that, and so when we have these conversations about housing, people you know sometimes just think of downtown.

What you need to think of is that there's a whole group of people, including kids, who are directly impacted every single day by the fact that they don't have a place to go at night, and they don't have a consistent place to go at night, and and so when we have these conversations, like we have to find a solution for those kids.

And it isn't confined just to downtown, it's all over the county.

People who think that homelessness doesn't exist in the suburbs are wrong, right?

It you know, yes, just that the schools are doing a better job of getting kids there wherever they're at, because I know of um family cats got on fire and they moved to the other side of school, hired Lyft to go pick her up to get her to school, and they know the husband goes out to he goes to Big Davis, but he's out east.

He has to get the bus at 6 15 in the morning, but the bus will come pick him up and take him to school every day.

Yeah, I I mean I would like we we ask a ton of our school districts, and I will tell you that we've had really good conversations with with our school districts about this specific issue of how do we get kids to school.

Um, and I will tell you that they are they're moving heaven and earth right now to try to get that to happen.

Uh but again, 90% of our challenges with getting kids to school, and I'm not talking about kids in high school, I'm talking about fourth graders.

I'm talking about fifth graders, I'm talking about sixth graders, kids who have no other ability to get there.

90% of those cases are directly related to housing.

So I from what I saw in the news, which was I'm not watching the news all every day, but these low barrier or whatever you're calling the housing is shelters or for the they didn't call them shelters, and it sounded a little more permanent than it actually is.

It's very temporary.

It's very temporary, so that doesn't really like you said it's a band-aid, but it's I'd like to see the way they partnered before, and maybe that they are still looking for it.

It's harder with the consolidation of welcome to fewer and fewer people, and they're not big donors, a lot of them, but the thing is to get maybe from the private sector individuals plus state money to build more permanent housing because uh there's very very little public housing in Indianapolis.

I'm I grew up in Chicago, uh, and then the suburbs, the northern suburbs, and we are even per population are like less than one-tenth of what some of these large urban centers are.

So we have to do something to get people to get involved, especially if they've got money, if they could partner and be part donors or or do something to help it, and the state legislature who so many times says, Well, we have a bonus, we have a butt, we have a surplus, we have a surplus.

People, I don't care what political party you are there, you're not gonna sit there and wait for your fearless leaders, or whoever they are, to tell you you have permission to go to the state house to go speak or support legislation, and also talk to your uh representatives to get them to forward it.

I have two very um active representatives, but they're in a minority compared to what goes to the state house, and and people need to on a local level, it's their district, make them know that you think this is very important, and I think all the voters need to know that, not just sit back.

They're always sitting back of it and they want to hear news that's all nice and sugary and that, but they need to get involved because it's tomorrow's problem.

The people that get into trouble are getting their own kids in problem, and they got into trouble, so they need to be aware of this because uh middle class, I see very little parent involvement, you know, and you hear constantly on the news all the problems that come up.

Jackie and Pat.

I want to shift a moment.

Um, what is being done about companies assigning their names to people's properties in the state of Indiana?

They don't live here, but they are they have what are reasons?

They've just grabbed a piece of property and put their business name on that property.

I've been uh I'm experiencing that right now.

Or are you talking about like out of state landlords just coming in and buying a bunch of property?

For what what whatever reason they come in, I guess they look at the list of properties available, um, and they're just putting their name on that property.

And their correspondence, their all their letters, everything they don't to do with their business is now coming to me.

Oh, really?

I'm not I'm not necessarily heard about that, so I will I let me follow up with you on that.

I'm not I'm not familiar with that.

Okay, Pat.

Yeah, we do have a land use um topic this afternoon that is indicator township right after this meeting.

Um, and the little I'm gathering is that in the state of Indiana, they wanted to move away from public housing, so they do a bit of a for-profit model where folks like Kittle erect and uh manage um their apartment complexes with agreements on uh affordable affordability criteria for the rent.

Um there is an issue that we're having uh that will be discussed more at the land use, where I have uh gotten some public uh information from the health department, um, and I did ask for all the comments, and the folks, the inspectors who are going in really try to work with everybody to get things to work, but it's amazing how many times the case is closed because the tenant decided just to move for whatever reason, and then the health department can't go back in uh without being invited.

So the I'm not this might be an atypical situation in our township that we happen to have found the data for, um, and that would be a nice outcome.

Um, but if this is a trend, uh, then the quality and caliber of the housing options for folks who are having a hard row in life is not the standard we should be accepting in our community.

You know, you just mentioned that you go to the the land use committee and in other meetings like that.

I mean, I think people would be amazed, and by amazed, I mean ready to you know take over the streets if they saw what the city has given to developers in terms of tax abatements and things of that nature for the promise of housing that has never come to fruition.

Yeah, meanwhile, they're still enjoying the benefits of those TIFS and those tax abatements.

And I can give you section 42s, too.

Yeah, I could give you 50 examples, and I'm not talking about oh, five thousand dollars.

I'm talking tens of millions of dollars for hey, we're gonna build housing.

That never happens, and that's what takes place at these committee meetings in in our community, and there's no accountability for it, and it's really really frustrating when we talk about the issue of housing that we'll give tech, you know, a 10 million dollar tax abatement on a building downtown that's going to be converted into housing, and there's no housing.

We just gave away 10 million dollars.

And by the way, sir, that 10 million dollars could probably solve our problem as it related to housing the homeless.

Okay, so kind of to Jackie's question, Ryan.

Um, we've had a situation in our community um where we have an out of state owner um that has put their name on a piece of property, they've since died.

Um they've put it in another family member has kind of taken it over, but what we're finding is that they're scamming people from what we can see, they're selling off sections of the building under contracts, and then whenever they feel like it, because there's no pattern to it, whenever they feel like it, they're just pulling that contract out and then keeping all that money that the tenant owner had put into their piece of that property.

So have you heard of that or seen that so there's yes on the land contract?

So there's there's there's there's something called a land contract that that you can do there oftentimes for 10 years.

Um, but I would want to get more information before we got too too much further into that.

Thank you.

Okay, Pat, now I'm gonna shift gears and ask about a different situation.

Yeah, this is a different topic.

And this is something that's been bothering me for most of the year, and the civic council has a guest speaker every month.

And early this year we had the president of the FOP there, um, and I don't remember his name.

Um, but he um pretty much stated okay, soften that comment, but um that the folks who are arrested shouldn't they should have to stay in jail until their trial, uh, which really that that bothers me.

So when you pick up, I mean, at that point, I guess it's in your your bailiwick.

How do you evaluate um what is they're accused of versus whether they should ever go to trial or or not?

I mean, how do you take that uh at that point when somebody is sitting in jail?

Um and we still have bail in the city, right?

Yeah, so it's a good question, and it's also important to remember like we're we're confined by the Indiana Constitution.

The Indiana Constitution says that you are entitled to bail unless you're charged with murder or treason.

So you're so you're getting a bail.

Um bails are imposed in in Marion County uh and in a lot of counties initially without the input of the prosecutor's office.

So there's a bail schedule that says if you are a resident on their charge, this is going to be your bond.

This is going to be your bail.

Um and it Marion County's had a bond schedule for 30 years.

Uh, you know, it's just something, and so it's but it's not something that's that that's hidden, it's readily accessible.

And so if you get arrested on the following charges, this is what your bail is going to be pursuant to the bond matrix.

Uh, when someone is immediately arrested, I don't necessarily get that information contemporaneously.

Um, and and so when we do get that information, we are oftentimes in a position to ask for greater than standard bonds, saying, Judge, in in this circumstance, the bail matrix calls for uh a three thousand dollar bond.

We think it should be ten, and here's why.

And the matrix says you can double it or increase the bond if there's more than one victim, if there's a deadly weapon involved, if the person doesn't live in out of county, if they have you know certain number of arrests, those types of things can increase the bond, and that's something that we frequently do.

Uh, but the the challenge is that you get a you get a bail in uh Indiana and it's written into the Constitution.

So if it using that that bail schedule, um if the prosecutor doesn't always get notice about when somebody is gonna be given a rain, is that when they set that bail?

Well, so it's it's it's it's oftentimes it depends on what they're arrested for.

Okay.

So like if you're arrested on a misdemeanor of level six, you're gonna get uh a bond pretty pretty quickly.

Uh if you're arrested on a major felony, you will get that bond at the initial hearing.

So if the prosecutor isn't always notified of the arrest and is not aware of extenuating circumstances that could increase or maybe decrease the bail, then how does that work fit into the system?

So, well, so I I I guess let me be clear on this.

So, you know, there's kind of the lower level cases are treated differently than the major felony cases.

So on the major felony case, you're not gonna get a bond until you have your initial hearing, which is when we will be there and and we're in a position to say, hey, we think it should be greater than standard based on the following circumstances and factors.

So is there always somebody that goes to all of the hearings to just check and see, hey, has somebody been arrested that we don't know about?

Yeah, yeah, I mean, we're yeah, we're we know when those are set.

Okay.

The the challenge though is if you're arrested on a misdemeanor or on some level sixes, uh, you can get a bond and post that bond before we're gonna know about it.

But so they never actually go into a courtroom where there's a public hearing.

Correct.

I think the thing that really is bothering me is the idea that you're innocent until proven guilty.

Right.

Um it says so on TV.

So no.

To have this idea that folks should stay in jail until their hearing, which I assume is can be months away.

No, it's it's within a couple days.

Oh, that here, yeah, yeah.

That the initial hearing uh is supposed to be within 72 hours of them being taken into custody.

And that's okay.

Yeah.

Oh, I want to ask a question.

You touched on social media and and the impact of that.

And then you had talked earlier about people who were victims of bodily harm because they honk your horn or they fail to turn their turn signal on, which you know, okay, that's against the law, but is it worth getting shot over?

Um, I see I I don't even carry a phone with a GPS, so but I see us on social media a lot, people who are complaining about, you know, why you know why why aren't people driving the speed limit?

Or why do they not understand how to drive it around about?

Or you know, all this kind of stuff where people are posting their anger about how other people are driving, and it seems like nobody gives grace for the fact that you know maybe that person is on the way to an accident that they found out about, or you know, maybe it's a teenage driver or an elderly driver who is a little more tentative, or how often do you see situations where it is people's impatience and sense of entitlement that they should be able to use the road however they want to?

How often do you see that culminate in crimes that could be prosecutable?

Every day.

I mean, I I cannot tell you how many cases that we deal with every single week that are directly related to people's bad behavior on the roadways.

Uh we have a number of road rage cases that stem from a murder case to just a simple accident that didn't need to occur because people were driving like maniacs because they were mad at one another.

And and so we see that far too often.

Everybody is in a rush, everybody is in patient.

Uh we are the home of the Indy 500, and people take that to heart, and they think that when they get on 465, this is their opportunity to demonstrate uh that they're actually a race car driver, and that is a really frustrating part because so many innocent people are being endangered by what is taking place.

Uh, people on the roadways are unnecessarily put at risk because of how people are driving so aggressively, and then they take out that aggression, and we see unfortunately a lot of road rage cases.

And be a little more patient and understanding that, you know, I saw a post one time where there was a complaint about a road that's on a curve, and there's a double yellow line, and people are tailgating, and there was a post on Facebook, and one guy said, Well, then you just need to get out of my way.

Right.

Oh, okay.

And oftentimes I do because I'm thinking, okay, well, you're tipping me off because you're tailgating me, but is it worth getting into some kind of an argument?

It's not.

Um, when I was in college a long time ago, we were still riding on the back of the shovel with coal, um, the the prevailing social theory at that time was broken windows.

That if you invest time and money and effort up front to try and address problems before they get to be a problem, um, but that's the best way to handle it.

That's gonna cost you a lot more if you just let it fester.

We certainly touched on that with the whole homeless situation.

How difficult are how much of a role can the prosecutor's office play publicly to say address this problem, gun violence, homelessness, whatever it is.

If we spend some time trying to prevent it, it's gonna cost us a lot less in money, but also in social consequences, then if we wait until that 15-year-old gets arrested because he had a gun and got into a fight and shot somebody.

Right.

I mean, I I hopefully that's where a lot of us are are wanting direct our effort is for trying to find real solutions to to these problems.

And you know, the the housing solution to me is pretty straightforward.

And sometimes it comes down to dollar and cents.

What kind of data is being collected to say if you put this family of four into a house and gave them resources to maintain that, it would cost you this much money.

If you wait two or three years, it's gonna cost you this much money.

And to me, it's not even it's not even data or money, it's priorities.

What's what's our priority?

Like if housing's our priority, this problem's solved.

I uh you know, I mentioned a 10 million dollar abatement.

I'm not making that up.

That happened.

We just gave away 10 million dollars.

Uh, that could have solved the problem.

And so a lot of these are just questions about how do we what's our priority and how do we want to spend our money as a city?

And if we spend it a little bit more intentionally on projects that are not glamorous, uh that are not going to lead to campaign donations that are just going to lead to improving the public good, that's where that's where our resources should go.

Uh, we don't always do that, and we don't always make those choices.

And and that's the part that is is frustrating to me.

Sadly, though, it often comes down in terms of how do you fund those programs.

It comes down to the term return on investment, and to can you know the to convince the people who may have more financial resources to make that investment up front, you gotta hand them hard numbers that say you fix this kid's problem today, it'll cost you $10.

If you wait until he's 18, it's gonna cost you 30.

So is there data being accumulated that is that hard data?

You know, to convince people besides saying this is what you should do as a human being, this is your social and moral imperative to help take care of your parallel man.

Sometimes it comes down to spend a dollar today or spend three dollars tomorrow.

What 100%.

I mean, I mean, the most expensive way to deal with this problem is the Marion County jail.

And everybody knows that, and everybody understands that it oftentimes that's how we how we deal with with the problem.

Uh so I I think the the financial logic is there and supportive of taking bolder action to address the underlying housing issue.

I'm I'm I'm the Marion County prosecutor.

I love being in the courtroom.

I love advocating and standing up for victims.

And you know, we've spent the vast majority of our discussion today not talking about what we do in a courtroom, but what takes place outside of the courtroom, because I think all of us understand that what happens in that courtroom is directly related to all the problems that we have related to root cause issues.

And and so my challenge to a well-engaged group like this is how can we actually demand accountability to say we're taking meaningful steps to address these underlying issues, and there's a lot of people in this room I can tell who want to do that, uh, and we need to do that.

Ellen, and then back to Jackie.

When we were fighting the TIFFs that were given willy-nilly and MDC rubber stampings, which is the Metropolitan Development Commission, no matter what, even with hard facts, a number of things going on and abuses and other things where it just goes in one ear and out the other.

And it seems to be that regardless of who's the mayor, the same people are still sitting there on these boards, never follow up on anything and the misuse, which I think is totally illegal.

And when does things have to come to you for that, or can the prosecutor's office nose around and just see, hey, I smell something that's not right, and I think you can if you have some, even if it's limited resources, I think you have a wallspring of cases if people from your office, especially experienced people, can stick their noses into what happened to all this money when I drive through those blocks and nothing's happened in five years or three years.

Because bingo, you got big case, you got money for the county, you're making people, and I think it should hit all the news media because publicity, bad publicity for them for the perpetrators, makes people aware where the problems are, and they shouldn't stand for just sitting by and letting it happen again for the next 10 to 15 years.

I really think that there are really it's gotten worse, let's put it that way.

It used, and I'll be very brief on this.

Used to be land bank, uh this mayor's been better, I think, but the point is for years.

It's going back.

Where it's just, you know, they show you a map in a meeting, we had uh land use committee meeting here and everything else, and uh, and I asked the question if these are uh properties available, how do we get hold of them?

We never heard from them.

Next thing we know, we get people from the suburbs, they're fixing these places, terribly cheap, tiny little windows, even the fire department couldn't get in, and just there's things that you can see that it's not your job.

Maybe you give it to the fire department and say, hey, well, how big build up with windows, but I think just the fact that nothing's been done on those properties, which is easy to trace.

You went to the MDC through the MDC minutes, which are very detailed.

You know what it was, the address, what was the decision, boom boom, boom, and and go after them.

Well, I think at first you didn't say it's all your responsibility, my well, I I I mean, part of it is.

I I mean, part part of it is, and um, you know, I think the the other part, you know, you mentioned the Metropolitan Development Commission.

Uh they do everything publicly.

When they give a 10 million dollar abatement, this isn't it's on channel 16.

I know like after you watch this, go to go to their meeting and watch the money just get handed out.

Um, you know, and and they're not doing it in any legal way, because they're telling the community what they're doing.

Uh it's it's just that that accountability has to be from us as a community to say, why why a $10 million abatement?

Why a TIFF bond for that?

You're expanding TIFFs for what?

We fought it.

I don't know.

Yeah, there and there are people who who are engaged.

I just feel like uh because a lot of people don't understand municipal finance, myself included.

Uh I think it's tough to get people engaged to rally against it, but these numbers are incredible.

The point is the time afterwards is what I'm talking about, right?

The end cap never occurs.

That's all.

Well, and they never deliver what they promise.

Well, the how do we get in that room?

Oh, it's I mean the watch on TV and you have to follow up.

Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, you can be in the MDC room.

I mean, they meet uh every Wednesday once a month for a couple hours.

And they put out uh uh an agenda so you can see what properties the thing about the MDC, which is great, is they have their actual meeting, and then which is televised, but they do a pre-meeting uh where they actually do all the you know dirty work, which is not televised, which is still a public meeting, but it's just it's not on channel 16.

Uh, it's separate, it's in a conference room, and that's really where you can see uh your government at work.

Okay, Jackie.

Um I just wondered if it's possible to turn back the hands of time because even as we sit here today, there's some conversation about bringing the military to Indianapolis with control of the crush of the crime.

Wouldn't it be practical for us to go back to whatever we had a restriction on the age that a person could have a license for a gun?

Um I don't believe we had nearly the amount of uh gun violence then as we're having now.

Well, and and you know getting rid of permitless carry had a detrimental impact uh on our community, but it also made it really a lot more difficult to solve cases uh and to prosecute cases.

Uh I'll give you a real life example of a case that I was involved in.

We had a situation where a fairly prominent doctor uh was John Gilled during a home invasion.

We didn't have any information, we didn't have any leads.

Uh IMPD pulls over uh three or four days later, a black Dodge charger, and during the course of that they see a gun and they arrest the person for carrying a handgun without a license.

When IMPD takes a gun off the street, they just don't sit there and look at it.

They test that gun against every single unsolved non-fatal shooting homicide.

You know what we had?

The murder weapon.

And you know what we did?

We prosecuted and convicted the person of murder and they're serving a 50-year sentence.

If that same incident occurred today where police pull that car over and they see that individual, they can't arrest them, and they can't take that gun off the street because there's no requirement that they have a license.

Absolutely.

And so that's that's like the negative impact on the prosecutor's office and the police department is not only we're not taking these guns off the street, we're not solving crimes because when we get the guns, we're usually able to link it to non-fatal shootings to homicide cases, and so as a consequence, we lost one of the most valuable tools that we had to fight violent crime.

Pat the TIFF stuff and the downtown TIFF, it's not ever gonna sunset.

Um my impression over the years now is that um the actions of the MDC follow the actions of the DMD folks who evaluate the um TIF request um uh for monies.

Um the like an example that is always coming to mind when you talk about well, there's no uh there's no money is the situation with Angie's list, and year after year they ignore the fact that Angie's list was outside of the actual footprint of the TIF and made some gobbledygook reason why it should be given um these monies anyway.

Um so year after year after year they got more and more money for Angie's list, and I drive by there now when I have to go down to City Hall take that left on Washe Street, and Angie's list is now a not-for-profit, which is not even taxable.

So that seems to me to be money down the drain uh to satisfy someone who has connections with the mayor's office when you know whoever was the mayor at that point in time, and and a lot of these was it Hogsett?

Yep.

Okay, I was thinking it might be one per beyond just before him.

Um but anyway, but you see these um there'll be exceptions.

There'll be they'll say, well, they're gonna create so many jobs, um, which are very low numbers, they're very low ball numbers to begin with, and then it's such and such an average salary, um, and they do have clawbacks, they have clawed back some of these um when they don't they have to annually file numbers and happened a couple instances of actually having to be sitting there when the MDC clawed it back.

But um the initial decision is not very vigorous, and the goals, the ultimate goals for spending, this is a huge wad of money uh sitting there in that downtown TIFF.

Um in fact, when uh oh, never mind.

Too much information in my head about TIFFs.

So, but there is a huge amount of money, but there's no coherent goals that are pre-set that the public could weigh in on that that we want this money spent uh to refurbish for the 12th time city market, or we want this money spent on Angie's list, or we want this money spent to solve some problems that we have as a community that are worth solving.

So just it's frustrating uh how mayors deal with that that downtown TIFF, but it's never gonna get sunset because it's way too much money uh to kiss goodbye.

Um we've got about five more minutes, and then we need to shift, and I certainly would love to have you come back sometime because this is a robust discussion.

I got a whole string of questions we get to.

But there are two issues that I would like to bring up.

We've touched on gun violence, and I think that's a whole different conversation.

There are a lot of differing opinions within the community about should we have guns, should we not have guns, should we have regulations against certain guns?

And I'd like to have that conversation more extensively another time.

But two issues that come up a lot that I see one is in the media where your office has been accused of plea bargaining too many cases and keeping criminals off the other street, off the street.

The other one has to do with retention of employees, and clearly you have some here in the audience.

But you had mentioned that you had 420 full-time or employees, not full-time necessarily.

But so I would like for you to in 30 seconds or less to talk about the difficulties you may face with staffing, not just the numbers that you have, but retaining staffing, because my impression is that you know, public prosecutors and defenders don't make a ton of money, and it's hard to keep them.

But the other one is to address the issue of plea bargains.

Why do you do that?

Um, your conviction rate for actual cases that go to prosecution sounds pretty phenomenal.

But what you see in the news is that person should have gone to trial, they shouldn't have pleaded out.

So, like I said, well, so I I think it's also important to recognize that oftentimes prosecutors are making the best of a difficult situation, meaning you know, cases sometimes fall apart and witnesses forget what happened, or witnesses no longer want to be involved in the process.

And so some of these plea agreements are the result of you have to make a difficult choice in terms of what to do with the case.

Hey, if we go to trial, this witness has been excluded.

We don't necessarily think uh we can still make the case, and and the person would would would get nothing.

Uh a lot of times that's what's happening behind the scenes, and and you know, we had a case that happened not too far from here where I very much did not like the plea agreement.

I didn't want to do the plea agreement.

Um, and it involves someone who lost their life.

Uh one of the witnesses was the person's daughter.

And the mom came to me and said, we can't go to trial because my daughter has made remarkable progress, and you're gonna set her back 10 years if you make my 15-year-old daughter testify in the death of her dad.

And we resolve the case, and someone on TV probably criticized us for the resolution.

Uh should I get on TV and blame the 15-year-old?

No.

Or do you just kind of have to take your lumps and say, okay, but you're doing it in the best interest of what this family's telling you.

And so those are the types of choices that people have to make all the time.

It's never, you know, anybody can make the decision when it's a really good case, it's like, oh, yeah, we can convict this person all day long.

Like that's not the tough part.

The tough part is when you're dealing with witnesses who are maybe reluctant or have very good reasons as to why they don't want to testify.

Um, how do you how do you strike that balancing act?

And we deal with it all the time in domestic violence cases.

We deal with it all the time in cases involving kids.

Uh, you look at the damage and the harm that going through the criminal justice process could pose to these kids, and you have to make a tough choice.

Uh, and sometimes someone on TV is gonna be like, I can't believe that guy did that, and he only got six years.

And the background of that is mom is telling me you cannot make my daughter testify because I don't think she's coming back from it.

And those are the choices that we have to make, and that is what impacts the plea agreement, but it doesn't do me any good.

Am I gonna get on TV and blame a 15-year-old?

No, you're not.

Uh, but those so you know, I think most people get it that these conversations and these resolutions are are more difficult than what they appear on the surface.

Um, and I think you know, we have 420 people who work in the prosecutor's office who are working there not to get rich because they love the work and they want to do the right thing and they want to help people.

They don't they didn't necessarily want to plead that case to that either, but they also have a responsibility to the victim, and that's how how we got to to where we got.

Uh, the second part about retention of employees, and I'm gonna knock on what as I say this.

We're very fortunate we're we're fully staffed.

Uh, most prosecutor offices in this state are not.

Um we're grateful for that.

Uh I'm always worried that you know something's gonna happen to impact that, but believe it or not, uh, we have a real shortage, lawyer shortage in the state of Indiana.

Uh the Valparaiso Law School closed, and they really fueled a lot of the people who ended up working in state at Notre Dame and IU Bloomington, though the individuals who go to law school there, they don't stay in the state and practice law.

So it really is IU McKinney, where most of the people who actually practice law in state are graduating from, and we just cannot keep up with demand.

And so there are many prosecutors' offices around the state who are woefully understaffed.

We feel very fortunate, and again, I'm not gonna what is I say this right now.

We are fully staffed, we have everybody that we need to do our job.

Uh, but you're always worried that you're gonna fall victim to what other areas of the state are experiencing right now.

Uh we're in the the city of Indianapolis.

Uh, when you are a young person coming out of law school, I think that's an exciting job for a lot of people.

They want to live here, they want to work here, they want to be a part of the community, and uh we've been able to increase salaries pretty significantly, and so we're in a we're in a good spot with staffing, but I'm always worried about it.

Okay, uh okay, and then we're gonna let Mr.

Pierce make any concluding comments.

We have a lot of internships for people who are interested.

We work with a lot of young people.

We welcome high school students, we welcome college students, law students, um, and we will make we will figure out a space for you here with our office.

Okay, okay.

Ryan, anything you want to say in conclusion?

I really appreciate the conversation, and thank you for everybody's level of engagement.

I can tell by the the questions that people are asking that everybody's engaged, they care about the community and they want to make a difference, and that's what we need.

Uh our city is a great city, but it's not without problems, and I'm a big believer that problems have solutions.

Let's work together and find the solutions.

Well, we very very much appreciate your time.

Thank you this morning.

We'd love to have you back again sometime.

There's always lots of conversations to be had, um, but what we all need to remember is you know, when you do nothing, you're doing something, but nothing happens.

Right.

Okay, well, thank you very much.

Appreciate it.

Alrighty, thank you.

The next conversation or next part of our agenda is um to talk about McCann developing uh the policy, uh, whether we are going to develop policy in general to address data centers.

Before we do that, I do want to remind people that um we have launched an effort that's that's neighborhoods, it's in neighborhoods SOS that's sharing our strengths, um, where we are going to in January announce dates where very specific issues in your neighborhood can um be made public and ask neighborhoods from all across Marion County to come out and support.

We have had our first submission, which has to do with the conversion of 29th and 30th Street back to two-way streets and the um and the impact it's gonna have on that neighborhood.

Um, there are forms out on the table, um, they will also be on our Facebook page, and I've had a delay in that, and I apologize for that.

Um, if you have a specific issue in your neighborhood and uh that you would like to have address, and I'm not talking about the broad-based things about data centers or how TIF district money is used.

I'm talking about we have this guy who has been doing this in my neighborhood for three years and nothing's getting done, or we have the infamous alley behind the post office where nothing's getting done.

And we would like to get details of that, and then each we'll pick two issues or two dates for each township where the where issues can be highlighted and we'll have information about, you know, if you've got this issue going on in Warren Township, even if you live in Pike Township, we want you to speak up to the people who can make the decisions and let's get this problem addressed.

There's no reason why we can't.

Um, with that, um, as many of you know, if you watch the news, read the Indianapolis or the Indian Business Journal, walk around breathing and have a heartbeat.

Data centers are become rising to the top of a lot of people's minds.

Environmental impact, um, infrastructure impact, the need to have data centers and the use that the internet has created to where these things are popping up.

They do have impacts on neighborhood, good or bad.

So we want to have that conversation about how can neighborhoods be engaged in the process and transparency.

Should there be a general statement about we welcome these, we don't want these anywhere in Marion County.

We say that they could be appropriate in some locations, all of those things.

So I'm going to start asking for some comments and conversation from the public.

Jim.

Okay.

We had the same situation in NESCO in regard to whatever the problem is.

NESCO takes the position of the immediate neighborhood association and supports them.

Okay.

Okay, next.

Now come on, I know that there are people out there who have an opinion about this.

Are we going to ask for put on the agenda?

Yeah.

Well, um, I think we need to have a vigorous discussion about all of the uh the issues coming in.

Um these data centers uh nationally have so much money getting pushed at them.

It's incredible.

And um you're gonna have everything from a mom and pop uh to uh uh uh another Google come along, and the reason they're popping up is because there is so much money.

Um, and the fact that we had one in Franklin and then bing bing bing, there's one in um Pike Township got filed, and then uh Martindale Brightwood got filed.

I might have that backwards, and now Decatur's gotten filed.

It's not gonna stop there, and there are some really um untoward things, and I'm gonna mention one.

Um I got the the idea to even ask the question from Paula Brooks for uh working with the the groups for um the Martin Dale Brightwood request, um, and that is that the backup generators run on diesel uh diesel fuel.

I asked the question what fuel they said diesel, and I said, ask how much would you be storing on site?

They're talking about storing a million gallons of diesel fuel.

So these are Martin Dale Brightwood?

No, this is a decatur.

Okay, I'm not familiar with the details and Jackie can probably speak to that.

Um, but these are not insignificant extra um issues that affect the abutting resonance to these things.

Um so it's not just whether you use the internet and have a responsibility to host one of these.

Um there are many issues, uh, the way that these are going to impact uh their neighbors and ways that you didn't even think of until you start talking, and that's part of this too.

That I think that we need to um circle wagons to have a conversation so that uh I'm finding um I certainly followed with some interest what was going on in Franklin Township, but I'm finding that the learning curve is huge.

So if we can you know, at a minimum, have a way to share information quickly, the high points at least, uh, that would be very beneficial.

Far as McCannic goes, um, I do think we need to knock this topic around and decide that um at some point uh whether we um not to ever overrule what a neighborhood wants, but whether we should have a policy uh pro-con or in between uh for these data centers.

Okay, Jackie, okay, and I agree with everything Pat just said, uh, we are definitely against this data center for the Martin Dale Brightwood community.

The research that we have done stem to this, it would be create a help hazard for all the people living in that community.

Um the um the stuff that they're gonna be emitting, the the amount of water it's gonna take to run it, and they're saying that oh no, the the community won't enjoy any of that cost, but we disagree, we think it's gonna eventually make a full term back around to the community.

Um just we just found some of the reasons why we are against the data center coming to our community, and we do need a partnership with all the other neighborhoods who are in engaged in the data center um debate and so forth, so we could be of one accord.

Okay, yeah.

Sorry.

Me?

Yeah.

So I'm with Greater Troy Neighborhood Association.

We worked very closely with Protect Franklin Township, do FOCA data center.

There is not any good thing ever that will come out of these for anyone that lives nearby, and I would strongly encourage McCannna to have a written statement.

When we were in talking again with Google's lawyer on the other side of the table, if he used everything he could to say specifically is for this.

The school district is for this.

He'll list every single person.

We need anybody we can get McCann included to be on that other side to say, well, McCann is opposed because they will lie to steel to get it to happen.

Um I do want to make clear before we go further.

And they are welcome to come join in the community.

The conversation as well.

The beginning of the conversation today, the starting point is not specifically geared to for McCann to take the position opposing data centers.

And if there is information that people have that is in favor that are in favor of the data center, um, they are welcome to join in this conversation, but they've got to show up and they've got to be transparent.

So Ellen.

All right.

There's uh problem I see with uh AI.

I'm looking at from the engineering standpoint, and uh what is AI being used for?

Okay, because a lot of this is going to fund AI.

AI is being used for the mechanization of jobs.

They are actively recruiting as many scientists and engineers as possible to train the AI robots.

Why?

Because you can replace a lot of QC chemists, a lot of engineers, and it may not be the best scientists, but what a lot of corporate America is looking for, especially the billionaires who are so removed from even how a company works, is the onward push, push, push.

How are we gonna look reduce costs, eliminate people just the way the 45,000 jobs are being deleted from Amazon?

AI originally was thought of that it was gonna help people.

It's doing everything possible to not help people.

You get a little bit of help for that tiny bit on Google or someplace, an individual, and that's where it stops.

The whole benefit is for the ultra-rich to get even richer.

And I'm not being judgmental about it, it's how they are using it.

Number one, number two, as far as resources, they could pay for electrical generation.

They could have total recycle of water systems.

They are not bringing up anything about how they're going to uh finance the electrical grid for that, how they're going to recycle water and not impinge the communities and the farms that are around them.

Well they'll we have a terrible uh shortage of water in central Indiana.

It all comes from these little rivers that do not go all the way through the state, and they don't travel very far, and a lot of it even in the city of Marion County comes from wells.

It's a I think at least the brown 50 percent.

So when wells dry up, not only do you not have water uh available, you also have ground collapse, which is being seen more and more throughout the United States.

So you can't just drain everything dry.

They really have to be on total recycle and reuse of water, which means their own purification systems, to be able to recycle it, not coat and damage all their systems, but you have to see who are the customers of this of these data centers.

It's not us.

These data centers are going to the people who want to uh do marketing that they want to get your personal information, and a lot of it, some of it is even illegal, though you can never get your hands around that very easily.

There's nothing to say that we are doing something directly or even one step indirectly for the common good, and I think that that's what they have to be held to account at.

It never comes up.

Okay.

Pat and then we'll okay.

Um, one of the things I'm reading about is, and I've been hearing about this for probably close to a year.

Um, there is it's like a gold rush, and there's just massive amounts of money getting pushed into these data centers.

Um there's examples where data centers are are in the zoned for, but they can't start because the the electric grid isn't uh has doesn't have the capacity to handle it, no matter who's going to actually pay for the capacity.

Um in Indiana or in our area, um in our house we have AES, and um the uh petitioner says that they'll be paying 80% of the costs of whatever plant needs to be uh the power generating plant needs to be constructed.

But AE, that's AES's decision, and AES can easily do an alternate route to to fund those power plants, pushing the cost of that onto the regular consumer.

Right now, AES has a need for buying energy, electricity from the grid when we have one of those peak days that it can't handle.

And the cost for buying that electricity is going up and up because of all these data centers going around the country.

So that's one thing.

But the investor community who's been funding all this is starting to get worried that they're overbuilding, that there isn't any, there is not a company, Google or anybody, who is actually making money off AI yet.

And as the costs for uh all this AI stuff goes, it's coming down.

So the profitability opportunity may be coming down with it.

And there is a policy analysis that's pretty thick that ends up concluding that local governments and state governments need to be figuring out now how they can reclaim abandoned uh energy infrastructure that is intended to go to these data centers, but if there is a collapse of this AI bubble that they're just going to be sitting there, there'll be white elephants sitting there with nothing to do.

So there's a lot of ramifications from the state's policy, the city's policy, um the actual nuts and bolts of zoning.

We have our zoning case, they actually are trying to get a variance of use to allow it.

So it doesn't can never go to the council for a vote.

So we already have machinations where they're trying to avoid the council, which I think is reprehensible.

But so if this works for for us, um indicator, uh expect more of that trying to get around the council.

That 80% being is law.

So they're not going to have to do it.

No, they it's not.

There is a second way they can do it is AES's call.

The problem is the accounting AES has to figure out how much is exactly attributable to the data center, and they can't do it.

Well, in Martinale Brightwood, they want to put a substation on this on the plot of lane.

So they they are also thinking forward thinking in that now they we can't claim the electricity, but if few gas fumes are flammable, are highly explosive.

Explain to me how you have a data center and barrels of diesel fuel, and it's not going to explode.

And because it hasn't happened yet, it means it's okay that it's not going to happen in our neighborhood, and and that is that those two things don't seem to be where the thoughts are going.

Well, I would agree, it's like speeding.

You may have a 30 mile an hour speed limit in your neighborhood.

People have been going 50 for a long time, nobody's been killed yet.

Does that mean that you raise the speed limit?

Um I know and I'm not an employee to the IBJ.

I did finally subscribe to it, which was hard because I'm cheap.

But they've been doing a pretty fair um approach to pros and cons of the data centers.

And you can get a lot of information from there, but one of the articles, two of the articles I read recently, one actually was about a medical supercomputer that Eli Lilly wants to build, and they're saying there is simply not enough power in the grid as it exists.

Not just do they build a substation, but the whole electrical grid for that to support this effort.

And the other one had to do with the fact that all of these petitions that are being filed in Marion County or you know, the outline counties or Indiana is like a race to get there first, so that if AI goes the way everybody in the tech community thinks it might go, they've already got things in place, so it literally is a race between these companies to get the ground zoned and get it ready to build, even if they're not really going to build yet, and then are we going to have a situation where it becomes a white elephant or they build it but they don't come, and then you've got a piece of ground that could have been a valuable resource for the community in some other way that's just sitting there, and they're not going to turn loose of it because they know that the public push against the data centers is growing exponentially.

So there are a lot of things to consider.

Like I said, I am sitting in this chair.

I I have my personal opinions, but sitting in this chair, at this point, I'm not speaking to say in favor or opposed.

I'm saying we need the information, and one of the biggest hurdles is transparency.

You know, they you can't find out who's building them.

You can't find out if there's a different, an alternate way to build something or to use resources that could be less impactful.

You are just sitting here being asked to trust that they're gonna do the right thing, and that's often the difficult thing for communities is because their experience has been you can't trust them, you need to know up front.

So if these data centers are necessary, and if these data centers have the ability to be environmentally, socially, economically responsible, let's talk about that up front, and whether or not if they've got the resources, why aren't they willing to say, hey, we can do this, instead of saying, we'll figure that out later.

Okay, other comments?

Dueling might have more attraction in front of the investment.

We can do the ground than it would explode.

What was that?

On the diesel fuel.

Use the arguments more traction that it might leak rather than it's gonna explode.

Well, yeah, I can say something about that.

Ellen, the cheapest way, and this is how most petroleum storage units are built, are flat bottom.

Until the tank is empty, or you're look or your bottom level control says, hey, it's going empty, you do not know if it's gonna leak.

Uh I worked a long time ago, many many years ago at a farmer company where they woke up one day and the low alarm went, and guess what?

It was 10,000 gallons of benzene, a known carcinogen that went into the ground.

They had a lot of talking to do and things with the New Jersey EPA and everything else to go.

The point is, one that they're not gonna build you the nice tanks.

Two, you can have backup generate generation from natural gas, which will pollute a lot less, but that's the expensive option.

They don't want to do that.

So you have bad tanks, bad tank design, and all the emissions, and by the way, even a tanks just sitting there, does have some vapor emissions.

So you're you're putting hydrocarbons, you're leaking out hydrocarbons, even with conservation events.

All conservations does is by a factor of 10 or whatever, reduces your emissions.

So it doesn't cut.

So when you're talking huge, huge millions of gallons, you're gonna be emitting like crazy, it's gonna affect the whole state, actually, or the whole country.

It's it's it's a big lie as far as I'm concerned.

So just so that we can frame this, we are running over time.

I'm a little bit, and I know we have a land use meeting that's coming up, so we're not this is not an issue that we're gonna be able to decide on or resolve today.

Um what McCana would be looking for is um people who would be willing to participate in kind of a subcommittee, similar to what we did with the digital billboards, to begin to gather real information and start to um talk about some of the very specifics about data centers.

And like I said, people who are pro-data centers are welcome to participate.

Um we're not doing this in a vacuum.

Um, but it is clear, at least from the people who are sitting in this room right now, that if we were gonna do a poll right now about who likes them and who doesn't like them, I'm pretty sure I know how the vote would go.

So there are just so many things to consider, and one of the obstacles that neighborhoods have to face, not just in this issue, but in many, is a lot of this information, a lot of these decisions are being discussed before the public ever becomes aware of it.

We don't have the same financial resources to pay people to gather data.

That's why it is very critical for us to share with each other what we found out.

We have to work on this cohesively, and we can't just keep kicking the can down the road and go, we'll talk about this later, later later, because just in the last month now we've got, well, Martin Dale Brightwood, Decatur, Pike, um, that have had new ones being proposed or coming online.

They're gonna keep coming, they're gonna keep coming faster.

Um, my understanding is that we already have like 20 some data centers that already exist in Marion County that are smaller ones that are probably specific to companies that many people don't even know exist.

But what we are looking for is what is your opinion, what information do you have that you can share with other people?

What information do you have that you can share with other people?

Would you be willing to help serve or participate in a smaller group where it isn't just at our monthly meetings that have we can have the continuing conversations so that we can get a made a decision make a decision about a policy and what would that policy be in the next two or three months?

I know we have the holiday season coming up.

That is unfortunate.

Well, I mean I phrased that wrong.

You know, I'm one where the holidays are coming up, and I'm sorry, that's family and friends and home, and that's where everybody's focus should be.

But shortly after the first of the year, we're going to have to have something online if it's going to have any effect at all.

I do want to reiterate what Pat said.

When McCannna develops a policy decision, that does not mean that we're going to come stomp them in on top of the immediate neighborhood and say, whatever you decide, this is our policy, and we're going to speak out in favor.

Our policies are to support neighborhood efforts, not to try and override neighborhood efforts.

So with that, um, if you have if you have an interest in this topic and participating on a broader countywide level, please get in contact with us so that we can start this process and keep it moving forward and not just let it languish until it becomes an emergency in another neighborhood.

Um, certainly the one in Franklin Township.

Um got to be a very public display, not just locally, but across the nation.

Um they gathered a lot of resources, and we need to share that information and we need to have it available, and how exactly that's going to be orchestrated and whether McCann should even be the one to orchestrate it.

Those are conversations we got to have, but they gotta happen.

We can't do talk, talk, talk, we gotta eat.

Um, be with that before we conclude any other comment any other um comments, conversation.

Okay, if you want to contact McCannna again, you can do so through our Facebook page.

We don't have a current website currently, but we do have a Facebook page.

Um, or you are welcome to contact us to contact me at by email at CB7801 at AOL.com or by phone at 317 847 9959.

Um, I want to thank everybody for coming.

I do hope you have a nice holiday season and remind you that our next membership meeting will be on January the 17th at 2026 in this room at this church at 38th and Meridian.

Those meetings are open to the public.

You are welcome to come.