Just lose my mind.

Okay.

The uh I'd like to convene this meeting of the planning committee.

Um the date is March 4th, 3 p.m.

in the afternoon here in the city chambers.

And well, we're gonna got numbered items here to discuss on the agenda, but before we do that, uh we we were handed a organizational chart by uh by um I assume this came from Mrs.

Brown, the director.

So I appreciate that.

And if you could uh come up and sort of take us through your organizational chart and tell us what happens at each little uh elliptical circle or square, so we understand the method to the madness of the planning department.

So the green is what I highlight the conversation that we had around the unhoused.

Okay, uh Angela Brown, planning and development director.

Um so you do have the full uh organizational charts uh for the planning and depart planning development department.

Um most of this is a restructuring to help streamline the services.

Um I came into the uh department, it was mostly operating in silos, so this is a way to bring some of the pieces together so we can have some interdepartmental connectivity to make sure that all um divisions are working together to accomplish having an open and welcoming environment for development.

And so what you'll see here is moving to one development director.

Um we originally had five within that department, so we'll have one development deputy director.

I'm sorry, deputy director.

Who is so if you could so I put your name here under the top director.

Okay.

So deputy director will be Yika Hoover.

Okay, and then uh moving to a more of an administrator management of the different uh divisions.

Um and so you'll see um those administrators are there, and then the divisions are starting with coding compliance, so thinking about the planning and zoning, so anything kind of related to code would be there, zoning ordinance, rental registration, our science management would be in that division, and then we have all of our code enforcement officers within one division.

Um originally were spread out across the different uh divisions, so now they're all in one department.

Um the next piece looks at economic development and the streamlining of our permanent and licensing process.

Again, those were originally in different divisions, so now they're all in one division.

Um, and then we are still have our housing, adding in community development because that is mostly a granting, uh the HUD program that we have there, it doesn't really do any other programs but administer the HUD grants, and then we have our transportation, which is Jurin.

Um what you'll see in the green is the instead of doing a unhoused division, um looking at something that's more flexible for us to uh touch on different uh specific projects, specialty projects, special programs, uh gives us the flexibility to move within hot topics.

So right now, unhoused might be there, but they're in case other topics pop up.

We can have a team that's focused on addressing some of those special projects, uh making data informed decisions and developing a plan for us.

Sorry.

Oh, that's Mary War.

And so the goal there is to uh right now uh having a policy, someone that does policy research that has come very handy.

We have Von Anderson doing that piece for us.

Um any type of as we are currently in the um session, any type of research on different fund initiatives that we have, he's been able to pull those off.

Any special RFPs we want to develop, ordinances that we might want to come up with.

We have someone to help do that, and then having a team that's just focused on the unhoused.

Okay, and your question, uh Mr.

Harley.

Uh yes, uh, and thank you, um, Director Brown uh for this layout.

And I I just want to make sure that the unhoused or the homeless question don't get mixed up in all this.

Right.

This is a major, I hate it.

That's why it's poor.

I hate to use the military word, but it's a major attack against a lot of our communities with the squatters, the panhandlers affecting our business.

This is major.

And I don't want to, and I and and you and I we've had this discussion where you can put it under this strategic initiative, but I want to make sure that we get success out of that.

Ward five has a uh five uh six-month uh moratorium.

Okay, hopefully we can have some answers on how to move forward with this uh unhoused questions uh uh before that expires.

Yeah, and I think some of the things we're having it in a sort of a strategic initiatives innovation group, uh it allows it to come out of the day-to-day operations that we have within the other groups and just have a special team dedicated to addressing this issue.

Okay housing access and systems initiative again.

So I'm not necessarily a fan of calling it the unhoused initiative, and so I think the goal is to really open up access for those who are in need of access and really changing our system to be able to address the unhoused population.

Um and so whether that's convening uh those individuals who do food programs, other support services, and thinking about how we restructure the system to better address the situation versus us operating in kind of silo.

So it gives it a more holistic approach.

And you mentioned what Von Anderson is gonna be over this uh policy uh innovative lab.

Okay, yeah, he's pretty pretty sharp there.

Um I did have another question concerning uh permitting.

You know, we've had some uh I had a lot of a lot of calls, continue to have calls to my office about our permitting process.

Is there a change in here for us permitting and and how is it supposed to work?

It is so right now it's under, so if you look at the second kind of uh group of circles, uh building licensing and permitting is now under one division.

Um and so we're working right now to streamline the application process, um, kind of redoing who's over that.

Originally it was kind of in different places.

We had a peace in zoning, a peace and code services and a piece and economic development, so now it's all under one kind of support staff that'll be managing the process and while we streamline the applications, and we're working to update our system platform to be more community-friendly.

So, and then we have a specific business navigator, so any type of major development or special projects.

There's one person that's the doorkeeper to help do a fast track to get uh development through quickly.

Okay, are uh are there any major personnel shifts here?

Uh especially when it comes to division heads and uh so it is.

Uh some people are getting elevated, so uh code enforcement.

Brunson is the leader of all code enforcement now, so they all have one manager they report to, which is Robert Brunson.

Uh Samantha will be the administrator over that department, so she's learning uh planning as well as doing the code enforcement piece for that.

So you have that uh kind of elevation.

Um we are looking right now to restructure our research technicians.

We currently have 12 of those, and again, they kind of operated throughout based on which they were working on, and so doing a restructuring there of how they operate.

Uh we are working to do a welcome center downstairs, so there'll be some shifting of staff to have a support.

So we have a customer welcome center.

Um, so everybody, all our residents can stay on the first floor and receive services in one office first have to locate us in the building.

Where's that gonna be located?

So when you come into the hood building, there's a room to the to the right.

Okay.

Used to be where they pay.

Where they used to pay, but they can go there and do any application with the zoning, permitting, or whatever, that'll be in one location.

Thank you.

Thanks for the uh update on this.

Okay.

Um the any other questions on this chart, we can come back to it, but I wanted to segue if we if if there's no other questions, segue over to um the first issue uh down here on for discussion is uh uh task force dash prevention of squat of squatters.

And the and the reason I put that down there was I know when when um the mayor first came into office, there were a number of task forces that were set up, which I thought was a constructive way to try to address a lot of the you know issues that had been you know frustrating uh citizens across the city, and I can't help but wonder if a task force might be a way to approach, you know.

We talked about the unhoused and housing and the problems with squatters and the the to me the the issue with squatters is particularly um important because the unhouse is one thing, it's not it's not against the law to to you know be homeless, you know, and and you shouldn't try to arrest your weight you know people just because they're homeless.

But once people start wandering around and then breaking into uh empty buildings, whether commercial buildings or residential buildings, and then starting to live there and in many cases sort of damaging the the in you know the the particular buildings and tearing the copper out and doing stuff like that, it becomes a whole different issue.

And I I don't think it's just wholly dependent upon the planning department to try to address an issue because you're talking about people who are abusing uh properties that they they just are trespassing on.

So there is law breaking involved with that, and that's what made me think that perhaps we could have a task force.

It's I think it's a really serious issue that's costing the city a lot of money.

Perhaps the task force that would have some people from plant uh from planning or with that type of background uh are people outside the city government that have had a stake in that, and also um people from law enforcement from JPD because uh what happens when you when these squatters proliferate across the city is is um you you don't even know where they might be and they're doing damage to buildings.

We found that out with Virginia College when both the owners and the loaners to the building uh walked away from it and left the city holding the bag for a uh a very significant commercial property that meant that we they had come to the conclusion after it had an appraisal done that it wasn't worth their money to repair the building, either for the for the people who had loaned money to the to the property owner or the property owner itself.

And so we're left with an empty building that we've got to try to either repair or if we have to turn tear it down like the old hotel, you end up spending $300,000 or something like that on a piece of property, and what happens is the squatters they leave because the you know the the bulldozers show up.

That's what happened with the old hotel when the first bulldozer hit the building to start the process of tearing it down, squatters had moved back in, and they left and they it wasn't we didn't pursue them, not that we necessarily need to be ready to pursue them, but uh they're gonna go to other buildings and probably do the same damage that they may have done to the to the buildings are in.

It's it's uh it's a real serious issue that cost us we we don't have the budget to to to fix all the stuff damage they do across the city, and and uh I don't know what the answer is.

And that's why I was thinking maybe a task force might be.

Do you have any uh thoughts on that, uh, Mr.

Tavison?

Um thank you, uh uh Chairman Foote, Peter Taywison, CAO.

One thing we have discussed internally in recent days, uh, and I think we'll bring forward is a request to have an ordinance passed by the city council, which requires anybody with rental property to post a bond.

There are other jurisdictions that are doing that, including jurisdictions in central Mississippi.

Uh we're not talking about a crazy bond, and it wouldn't address the commercial concerns of the several hundred thousand dollar teardowns.

Um, but a bond of ten or fifteen thousand dollars per single family residence, as y'all know because you look at the demolition cost and the grass and weed costs would cover a number of those.

Now, again, this would only apply to rental properties, not airship and other things.

Commercial-wise, um we intend to make another recommendation with respect to the size of the apartment complex and find something that is uh appropriate, whether that's 50,000 or 100,000 that would allow us to do that.

The bonds, as we understand it, are fairly reasonable to secure a couple of hundred dollars.

And so it seems like uh a cost that would be appropriate for a property owner now.

This is a recent discussion.

We've got to work through some details, but that's one of the ideas that we have batted around internally to perhaps let people know if you walk away from the property, there's some place we're gonna go to get some amount of money recouped.

Uh, because we've got to hold the property owners responsible.

As y'all know, it's hard to deal with the homeless and the squatters, but we have too many property owners who are simply content to buy property in Jackson, let it be a tax write-off to counter whatever property they own in New York, Texas, California.

And so we've got to figure out how to get some attention.

So I think you'll see something from us um with a proposed ordinance sometime in April on that idea.

That's not the only idea.

That's not a silver bullet, but we are uh director Brown, her team, the administration are uh accepting the challenge that the council has put forth.

We've got to find a different way to address what we're doing, because we are losing the battle, as you said, Mr.

Foote.

Thank you.

The Mr.

Hartley.

Yeah, and and and those discussions that you have, Mr.

Tavison.

Uh can we also add these properties that are that are burnt up?

Folks collect the insurance money, and then they they're going elsewhere.

So I've got a response to that too.

Yes, sir.

Um we have had since January 1st in this city.

Uh, just got this information this morning from Samantha Graves.

Approximately 11 fires on buildings in this city.

Now, this is the busy time of year, so that is not expected, but that is a lot of burns.

We are also working internally to make sure, and we thought we had this worked out.

We're still working on it to make sure fire department gives code enforcement fire reports as soon as they occur.

And then code enforcement is going to figure out if we can contact lien owners or property uh lien holders, property owners, or insurance companies, and somehow interject ourselves.

We haven't quite figured out the details.

But many of these insurance policies have a provision that will provide for cleanup.

And I'll give you a prime example.

Uh the corner of West and Fortification on the Northwest side is MJ's tire shop.

Been there 30 years.

Yeah.

You go north on West Street.

There was a two-story blue house that was some sort of halfway home rehab.

I don't know.

It caught fire December.

Am I about right, Ms.

Grays?

They had that house down within 30 days.

Not the city, the people who had it.

And that got our attention.

Why is somebody moving that quickly, but not everybody else?

Right.

And so you don't want to see that house burned, but I think we can all appreciate the fact that within 30 days of the fire gutting that building, it was a vacant lot.

So we may lose property tax, but we didn't have to spend money on the demolition, and we don't have an eyesore.

So we're looking at that as well.

Um, Councilman Hartley, and we'll we'll working continue working through the details on that to see how we can better uh combine those energies between what the fire department is saying and get code enforcement involved earlier.

And and that that is that is the good news is good that uh you guys are, I guess with all our discussions, we're working on the right things.

Look, if there is any type of um ordinance or whatever, you know, once we discuss it, let's let's go ahead and get it passed on out.

Let's go ahead and do it.

Yes, sir.

Mr.

Parkins.

Thank you.

I appreciate that collaboration that's happening between fire department and and all just all the areas.

I think that that's great.

I'm also very intrigued by this idea that rental properties and potentially commercial properties were post a bond.

I think that there's some um potential really great things that can come from that.

I think obviously we want we would want to structure in a way that didn't prevent the good apples.

I mean, we we don't want to stymie business.

The reality is we need more rental properties in this in this city, not less.

And I mean, we need more housing options.

Um I I want to make sure that we're not styming the the progress that's there, but also holding folks accountable, especially if they leave.

Uh Mr.

Foote, um, we were recently handed a memo from deputy attorney uh Bennett on the very topic of squatters.

You want to come on up, Megan?

I I wonder if we can hear oh okay.

And that's I had a question about it too.

Yeah, I mean, I think having a task force is is still really, really good idea, but I think this might answer some of your questions that we have.

Uh full disclosure, this is not my area of expertise.

So tell us what your name is.

Megan Bennett, Deputy City Attorney.

Um, Deputy City Attorney Jakoski did the bulk of the drafting for this.

I made it pretty and cut down the extraneous legal parts for y'all.

Uh questions, concerns, comments.

Well, I hadn't I hadn't changed to review that I think this is our first time seeing this, but uh can you give us it's uh just one quick question.

Uh there's already an ordinance regarding trespassing and stuff.

Uh and I had started working on an ordinance just for squatting.

Are we gonna be able to turn this into an ordinance or an update it on the trespassing uh one trespassing slash squatting?

There is nothing preventing the city from passing an ordinance about squatting.

However, I am not sure how helpful it would be to duplicate state law.

It's not necessary for the city to duplicate it in ordinance if that's something the council wants to do, that is a legislative decision, and we can certainly work on that.

I think we need to put some uh I had a call today, and someone wanted to know what is the regulation concerning squatting.

And uh I gave referred them back to the old one, uh uh trespassing regulation.

Uh, but I think with the with the problems that we're having, I believe that uh we need to at least redo the trend the uh trespassing one and add this in, uh especially a lot of um uh some of the other language here are updated language, and also include a copy of the affidavit itself.

So once we we can I can give these out, they'll see the regulation, and if they are a landowner, they can go ahead and fill out that affidavit, take it over to JPD, get it notarized or whatever, and now JPD has um has permission to go on those properties and and get rid of the squatters.

So uh the term get rid of the squatters, well, remove them from uh from the property that they're squatting on.

Okay, so I mean that's when I I mean not get rid of get rid of, but remove them from the house.

I I guess make you know, make sure they leave or in for you know inform that they have to leave.

This really brings home the problem that that I'm you know, um uh puzzled by, and that is um if we just ask them to leave, is that gonna reduce the squatting, or does it they end up just going somewhere else?

I you know Mr.

Parkinson.

Yeah, my my mind on this I'm not opposed to a task force, and I'm not opposed to new ordinances, but um if we have the things to do this now, let's just do it.

I mean, let's just we don't need to wait anytime.

I mean, I think this memo is awesome.

I think if we make sure that all involved parties are aware, including JPD including the question, the question then would be, and and I'm I'm all for that.

You okay, is is um who has the task of doing it?

So we've got the planning people and and we've got the code enforcement officers.

Is it fall to them?

Does it fall to do they have a partnership with JPD and and come with a sworn officer uh at uh from JDP?

I mean, I don't know what the right solution is, but we need to have it so that it's clear who has responsibility to um to make sure these things happen, if that's the course if it's set up as an ordinance.

So only the owner of a property or their agent can file an affidavit to remove a squatter.

That's not something that falls to code enforcement or any city department.

I would like to further point out that if we make this an ordinance, that is not something per capitful police's previous stance that the capital police department will be able to enforce.

They can enforce the state law, whatever the citation is.

I can't remember.

They can enforce that as can JPD.

There is no need to write an ordinance.

We totally can, but we can start enforcing this immediately.

However, until there's an affidavit filed, there is nothing any law enforcement department can do to remove squatters.

Okay, so the affidavit could be on the front page of our city website.

I mean, it can say if you own a place and there's a squatter in your place, click here.

This is the thing that you need to fill out.

Um does state law require it to be notarized, or is that a burden that we have put on?

I do not know.

I can check.

If it does not, we if it's an affidavit with the court, I would imagine it needs to be notarized, but I will check and find out.

Okay.

Can the city provide that notary service?

Can we um notary?

So it can be great.

I mean, we could say that.

If you have if you have a uh if you're a homeowner and there's someone squatting in your house, what do you do?

There's a uh the button right on our main page.

Click this, fill it out, the clerk will notarize it.

And then I think Mr.

Foot's point was does who once we have the affidavit.

I understand that we can't take action without the affidavit, but once we have the affidavit, is that a code enforcement action, or is I I would imagine it's a GPD action.

That falls to law enforcement, but this is not a code violation.

Again, I I provided you a copy.

This is the current regulation that that's in uh the city codes, and there's uh example of an affidavit.

Okay, I've been passing these out to my communities and saying, hey, you know, if you own a property, you have a problem with squatting, fill this out, take it to JPD, let's get them out.

And if your neighbor own that street, you need to call, I asked them to call code enforcement to report maybe untidy conditions or I don't know how you guys get involved, but someone needs to chase down who owns the property and get them to fill out that affidavit.

Okay.

So let me follow up on that same line of thought, and that is so let's talk about commercial buildings where you have squatters, and it's been a much bigger problem because a lot of the commercial buildings, they don't have owners here in town.

Their owners may be in Miami or New York City or New Jersey.

And we if we come across them, um, you know, because you see a big mess outside the you know the Virginia College building, and it there's huge, I mean it's really terrible, but and that you come across the squatters, uh, but the owners are hard to get a hold of when they live in New Jersey.

What's the course of action that that uh the community should take at that point?

I will preface my answer by saying I believe this answer is a policy question, which falls to the executive branch.

However, by law, all corporations that do business in the state of Mississippi are required to have a registered agent within the state of Mississippi that this list is on the Secretary of State's website.

In the event there are squatters in a commercial building and the city elects to designate a city department or division to reach out to those owners, they can reach out to the registered agent to let them know that there is a squatter in the building and ask if they would like to file an affidavit to have JPD or CCID depending, remove those squatters.

We cannot force the registered agent to file an affidavit.

We cannot force any property owner to file an affidavit.

Um, and then once they file that affidavit, if they choose to do so, it'll follow the same process.

And I think code enforcement does a great job, and they have to research uh technicians to chase down ownerships.

I I think I you know I dare not uh put myself in an executive position, but I think that would be the reasonable folks to be uh to be researching this.

Uh incidentally, if those squatting persists, and if something happened to that building, it's gonna come back to code enforcement anyway.

So uh we really need that's it's an opportunity to to be sort of nice guy, mean guy.

I mean, we we can say, listen, we've noticed that there's stuff happening at your place.

We suspect that there might be squatters there.

We can help you.

If you fill out this affidavit, we will remove the squatters from your building.

If you choose not to do that, and your place becomes a code enforcement violation, we're gonna hold you account for that.

And so it's us saying, here's what we can do to support your efforts, but if you're choosing not to do this, we're gonna hold you account for the damage that's being done on the property.

Well, I know it used to be where in the police department where the owner was signed a trespassing, and it will give the officer permission if they caught you on the property to take you in.

Yeah, but trespassing, and the officer can sign the affidavit.

I think I think that's great.

But does the business owner need to sign that?

That the owner of the property have to sign it to give the police department the permission to make the arrest for trespassing.

Yeah, I think that's good.

But but then there's also since been the state law that that's fairly recent.

I am I mistaken on that.

Yes, last legislative session.

Yeah.

So is there a I mean this is a this is a great example of a affidavit, but this is the tied to the city ordinance, which JPD can enforce, but capital cannot.

Do we have an example from the state of a state affidavit that aligns to the state squatting laws that JPD or Capitol can enforce?

I am not aware of one, nor has city legal created one, because we have not been asked to again.

Yeah.

Well, I yeah, I mean, if there's one if the one I I'm not saying you should create it necessarily, but has the state, I mean, if the state has one, I think we should use the states.

You're talking about you're talking about squatting?

Yes.

Okay.

Let me a follow-up question would be so it's right.

Thank you.

So registered agent.

So every um for uh if the owner's not of a rent of a commercial building, lives is out of state, they're supposed to have a registered agent.

Do we have a a list of the registered agents for all the commercial buildings across Jackson that where the owner's not here in town?

Do we happen to have that?

We do not have that.

That is maintained by the Secretary of State.

So if we if we find a building that's empty, let's say commercial building, and then we should be able to go to the Secretary of State with the address and find out who the registered agent is.

No, you would go to the Secretary of State with the company name, look it up on the business registration portal, and that will give you their registered agents.

So we'd need to know the name of the business.

Um, Heinz County Land Rule.

Okay.

Which code enforcement and all the planning populates automatically via open gov.

Okay.

And then each of these matters, I believe, would be assigned their own open gov case number.

Yeah.

Okay.

And so we should be able to find out who the registered agent is and then pursue the squatting issue with them.

Precisely.

And if the company does not have a registered agent, if they're an LLC and they merely own property, they are not required to have a registered agent.

I believe, councilman, when we had the meeting with Bill Cheney from the Secretary of State's website, we discussed closing that loophole.

Um, I don't believe the legislature has contemplated that this session, but we can certainly uh tee it up for next session.

Please.

However, if they are not an LLC, if they are a corporation or a 501c3 C4, they are required to have a registered agent.

And if they don't, then we can report them for to the Secretary of State's for that violation.

Not sure what we do about the building in that case.

We will burn that bridge when we get there.

Okay, let me let me go to another issue here that I've got to notice that one.

Okay, go ahead, Mr.

Hart.

Uh, in very briefly.

Look, I for one, in my ward, we're losing a lot of real estate.

We're losing a lot of folks moving and stuff.

Whatever legal needs and community improve uh improvement needs for us legislation, give it to us because we need change.

Okay.

So whatever you'll think come up with that can help uh increase penalties, whatever, give it to us uh so to examine and vote on.

Mr.

Chair.

Yes, uh, Mr.

Tavis.

The memo from City Legal References in a footnote statute 8910-9.

That should be 89103.

Okay.

The affidavit does it references um more than once in the statute that it has to be sworn, so we'll have to be before a notary.

And to the extent the administration has not asked, it will do so now.

Legal department, please draft the appropriate form for review by director Brown so that we have a standardized affidavit in the city for those who want to complain about squatting.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I guess here's an a next issue that uh concerns me.

That's burned out buildings.

And we I got a lot of them in Ward One.

We have some of them burned down the last three months.

It's really sad.

But the in some cases, I think the owner probably it may be an elderly person who who collects the insurance and then goes move and moves into an apartment somewhere else.

And the building is the home is still half burned out.

But there's got to be some way we can the insurance is for the for the building at burned down.

They shouldn't be able to just take the insurance money and go live somewhere else and leave a half burned out house for in the neighborhood that undermines quality of life and house valuations uh in the in that area.

What if anything can we do?

Or maybe there's a book something on the books already that we can do to make sure that resources to tear that house down completely if it's you know, if it's not salvageable, um are used by the the person who got the insurance proceeds.

I do not know the answer to that.

I honestly think that's a little bit outside of my purview.

I feel like that is maybe more of a code enforcement question legally.

Uh you know, it's out my side, my I don't know.

I mean, I can do some research and try to find out off the top of my head, I'm not sure if there's anything that forces the homeowner to clean up the property with their insurance proceeds.

Well, it seems it maybe that may be a stretch company.

They still have responsibility for the for the home site, don't you think?

Yes.

Okay.

So we would so I would imagine.

Maybe someone can do some research on processes on what other municipal or what other states are doing.

Uh and uh, but we have a problem with folks walking away to grab the insurance money, they're gone.

And then they leave in this problem, we gotta go through a year or two of processing to even try to catch up and get some kind of uh some kind of resolution to it.

And then what we may end up having to pay for it.

Right.

So we need something that can hold uh, you know, that can keep them uh responsible to the community with that money that they get from their insurance or whoever.

If they're not gonna move back in, then they need to tear the place down and uh make the neighborhood look better.

Mr.

Parkinson, yeah.

Um, because I think if the proceeds, the insurance uh settlement um is intended to cover the cost of repair or demolition of the house and people aren't using the funds in that way, that might be fraud.

It could be.

It's a legal question, but and I certainly don't have the legal expertise to know that.

But and if people aren't getting so that assumes that people are insured, that insurance is paying them money and that they're using the money for something else, or what the hell?

It's a separate problem if the insurance settlement that they're getting in the first place is not sufficient to even cover what needs to be covered, but either way, that's a problem that I think the commissioner, and then a third becomes a problem is are there people who don't have home insurance, and so their home burns down and then they have nothing.

But either way, I think whether insurance isn't giving them a money, whether they're not not insured, whether insurance isn't giving enough money, or whether people are just baking the money, I think that's a great conversation to have with the the state treasure.

And if there's a mortgage, they're required to have insurance, and um that money should go to both pay back the mortgage and and um, but it should be more than you know, but some of the money, it should be sufficient money to be repair the house, too.

You know, anyway.

So I don't know what the answers to this, but I think it's a problem we have to come up with some sort of course of action.

I definitely think we need to investigate it a lot further.

You mentioned uh state organization that may be interested, what state treasury or uh the is it doesn't the state of Mississippi have an insurance commissioner?

Oh uh is that an elected official or is that he's elected, Mike Cheney, he's been the insurance commissioner for 20 years or something, I guess.

Sure.

Um that might be the right source to go to to find out uh the particulars on that.

That's a good point.

Uh that was what the thing.

So um no other questions about burned out houses.

Um the I've got down here in the next item is um updated inventory of abandoned property.

Do you can you tell us kind of where we stand right now at the city at the city level, also at the state level, if you've got that that information graves?

So I don't have it broken down in whether it's a city or state, I can do that.

Um, but I did break it down by ward.

Okay.

So what we did was to try to catch up on bag log, and because we had so many officers um leaving and new officers coming in, what we had to do was start closing out cases and reopening those cases.

So you will see a change in um the amount of cases.

So for ward one, we have 264.

What you said 164?

264.

264 in ward one.

And these are, I'm sorry, before you get the rest numbers, these are cases that people have submitted a ticket for demolition grads, and we've trash and debris board ups vehicles.

So we're waiting for the funding.

Funding.

Okay.

And some of them are going through the process as far as environmental administrative court.

Okay.

Ward two.

Or two is 258.

Four or three, one thousand one hundred fourteen.

Oh boy.

At least one thousand one hundred and fourteen.

They're using the system.

Or four, seven fifty-three.

Wow.

Four or five.

Don't shock me now.

I don't know.

Give me a heart attack.

1,200.

Oh, wait a minute.

I didn't hear the rest of that.

1000, how much?

1216.

1216.

1216.

Or six, 781.

That number change.

47, 81.

Now that just hurts me.

So tell us what this means.

So how would you know?

That's a lot.

Okay.

And just to reiterate, these are not a list of abandoned properties.

These are just the ones that people have filed tickets on.

These are just the ones that we've presumably we've gone out, we've taken pictures, we've done, we have a file on it.

I thought they were seeing this.

Yeah, yours.

So what what do you do about each one of these cases?

What's tell us how the how the case works to come up to a solution?

Um, we're going out and take pictures of it.

So if we can get to the owner, we'll try to do environmental court first to try to get the owners to comply.

If not, we'll move to administrative court, which is for us to try to clean it, and then we'll send a statement of cost out to try to recruit the funds or at least put them on a payment plan.

And if that doesn't work, then we'll proceed with the lien on the property.

Um and I know we're looking into the civil debt.

Um is there any um do you do you happen to know for these when these cases come in?

Do you check to see if they're current on their property taxes?

So we also look at the property taxes because we if somebody's paying taxes on them, then more so they may comply, or they may enter into the repair agreement.

I mean the um payment plan.

But if they're not paying taxes nine times out of ten, it's gonna go to the state.

So um what percentage do you have a ballpark figure on what percentage are not paying tax are not where there's um no they're behind the paying taxes, probably taxes?

I don't have a percentage, but I do know it's quite a few.

Quite a few.

Okay.

So if they're in a demolition state, nine times out of ten, they're not paying taxes.

Sorry, can I go back just really quick to the numbers?

These are not like all the cases we've had since July 1 or like these.

This does not include any resolved cases.

This does not include any that we've finished.

These are active cases right now that need to be we know them.

It's not that you know, we're out there unaware of it.

These are the cases that we know we have a file on, but we either it's either in the process or we don't have the funds to move forward, or for whatever reason, they're not closed out yet.

Right.

So these are currently active.

So as we're cleaning properties, we will close them out once we uh submit the invoice.

And this is as of today.

This is you put these numbers today.

Oh question.

Oh, you got Mr.

This kind of works for some things, the abandoned properties or properties that need to be cleaned up.

I feel like that process works well.

But some of our nuisance properties, like with people parking in the grass, that that continues to be a thorn.

And I realize, you know, we only have so many code enforcement officers.

We got all these research texts and all that, but things aren't moving as quickly as they need to.

I read where the C of Clinton, their code enforcement officers write tickets.

Why our ours aren't writing tickets?

Madison does the same thing.

And I asked, because I call what ticket book are they using?

They're using the the same uniform ticket book.

They write the ordinance on the ticket.

If they miss the property owner or whatever, then their police department will come back later that night and deliver the ticket.

And I think we need to try that.

Um, and again, I understand looking at all these properties, I get that, but this is not part of the problem.

I got an email today that was an inspection done on a ticket that was open back in the summer.

We're headed back in the summer now.

And so, of course, the vehicle that was reported back in the summer is no longer there.

Because the people at work, but if I upload, if I upload a picture saying, hey, this person is parking in the grass, and you can clearly see that per the ordinance is not actively loading or unloading, and they're not watching their vehicle, then something should have happened.

So, what is the process of that?

How do they because I have a same similar situation?

This car, they got cars everywhere, and some of this stuff is a simple fix, but it's not being done.

I think what they try to do, and I'm not trying to answer for you.

They try to get property owner compliance, but it's not working.

And we got to put some teeth to this, get folks in the court, write them a ticket, whatever the case may be, to make sure that they're doing what they need to do.

Because if we're writing tickets, they'll be more mindful about it.

I got two houses right there side by side, and I talked to the planner director the other day.

This man argued me down that he can park in his own yard.

You got a state senator right across the street from you, and the house representative guy right around the corner.

And your neighbors are reporting you, but I don't have, I'm not law enforcement.

So we depend on y'all to do this.

And I just feel like it's just not working like it needs to work.

Mr.

Because if all the municipalities around us are more aggressive, then we got to do the same thing.

I do think the ordinance needs to be rewritten for parking in the yard.

Give it to us.

And we'll we're working on that at least.

Trust me, I've done the masters and planning program.

Y'all deliberate, but y'all slow.

And we we cannot continue to wait for, you know, again, I understand the whole compliance thing, but this kind of stuff is making our neighborhoods look bad.

Even your better neighborhoods is happening there because a lot of your renters are moving into these neighborhoods and it's just not working anymore.

Mr.

President, I I share your sentiments.

Um we received an email yesterday.

I just saw today, uh, from one neighborhood who she says if you look in open gov, this particular case has been opened since 2014.

2014.

It's about parking in your yard.

It's not about parking in the yard.

Um it's a bit, but it's about a similar topic.

Uh and over a decade.

Albeit you were not here in 2014.

You were probably in kindergarten like I was.

However, we depend on code enforcement to help make this city look good.

All right.

And colleagues, I know this has nothing to do with this current topic, but one of my presidents, Mr.

Ernest Ward called me on my way here.

The illegal dumping unit has been disbanded.

And I'm gonna bring forward a resolution, and hopefully the new chief will get it back up and going because we depend on that.

Um they were the ones who probably would have had some things in place to keep those lights, those electric wires from getting snatched down in Ward 6.

And so we definitely need that back.

Just one quick question.

While we're on this note, how do like man, I'm I'm embarrassed.

Um I understand it, but my numbers are are the top, and uh, and we lost more people uh than any of doing our last um our last uh you know census uh and and redistricting because we lost more folks.

How do we get an equitable chance of getting these properties done?

And how do you balance that thing out uh according to wards?

Um first we got to get a clear overview of really what's going on in the city, and that's why it's real important for us to make sure we're we're with the citizens as well as us are writing up and reporting every blighted property that we see.

And then we can see how to mitigate from there.

Okay, and I do like the ideal of tickets, especially for some of those routine things, write them up.

Let's let's move move on with it.

And anything you guys can do for us, ordinance throw it our way.

Okay, with increased penalties, increase it.

Did you have something else, Mr.

Parks?

Oh, okay.

All right, so the that's really sobering the number of cases.

Um the next Mr.

Chairman.

Oh, excuse me.

Yes, sir.

Peter Taberson, CAO.

I'm gonna throw out one other idea that I think is worth us discussing.

Um we need to look at whether we are officially operating municipal court.

Okay, we currently have and have had for a number of years uh multiple part-time judges.

And this is not a comment about any of those individuals, but I think all of us realize if you have two masters, you serve none.

And when you think of our environmental issues, the issues that this council is focused on and has been for the last eight months, uh combined with our crime issue, it may be time for us to move the full-time municipal judges and have somebody who is there every day and willing to have night court if needed to address some of these other issues.

So I will work with um uh city attorney Martin uh and bring forward some ideas about that as well, because I do think we need there are several pieces that need to come together.

Clearly, we need code enforcement that has key performance indicators and can reflect what they're doing.

So you know, clear with Lou, we need enforcement action, but we also need a court system that has some teeth into it and is not worried about who's on the bench on a given day, because we do have a little bit of gamesmanship, and I will say that as a recovering lawyer, uh I do the I would do the same thing.

I think you want a particular judge on a particular day if you know their personalities.

Um I do think if we move towards full-time judges, a couple of them, I think that decreases the variance between the judges and a loss also allows us to adjust the court hours so that we could better tackle some of these issues.

So I'll put that out there, work with City Attorney Martin and bring forward some ideas on that as well.

Keith Reynolds, thank you, Keith Reynolds, give him what he won't.

Yeah.

Okay, let's so we I the um the next item here.

I think we we already talked about the your organization chart that you presented.

Then so this brings us to community improvement and demolition budget.

Um so can you update us on where we stand and where your status of your budget at this point in time for the state money that was for the how highway 80 corridor?

We have depleted that.

Um the district 71.

We only have 9,247 left.

Um, but we're waiting on approval from MDEQ so we can move forward with those for general demolition.

We're looking at 42,463 commercial.

We're looking at one 114, 825.

Uh grass and we were looking at 22,400.

Okay, that's for the the um fiscal year that ends on September 30.

Say one more time.

That's for the fiscal year that ends September 30.

Now, is there um are we got any legislation at in front of the at the state level that we might get more more monies for?

Let me ask a question for Mr.

Davidson, maybe okay, Miss Brown.

So we do have a couple of ask out to try to get some earmarks to uh cover demolition one that's do we trying to have prepared for it this month.

Um, we also are uh looking at a HUD allocation of about $800,000 for demolition if that gets approved um this month as well.

Now that the HUD money, does that get approved at the federal C BDG, uh current C B C D B D j dollars that we are reallocating to put into our demolition program?

When would we find out whether we're um hopefully within the next week or so?

Oh, really?

Yeah, so it's just reallocating some dollars that we already have from 22 through 24.

We really need new funds.

We do need new funds.

So that's what we're trying to uh see if we can get an earmark to help cover some of the demolition program as well.

Has anybody got any suggestions on where we can get more funds for this?

Kenny, he has some money.

How I wish.

Uh, but can I ask a question?

Um, this money that you just uh listed for us, that's just if we pay somebody to go out and if we contract out to have the work done.

Um I would like can we get to a place where we can start doing the work ourselves?

That is coming up in our next meeting.

Okay, is to uh the equipment and stuff that we're ordering to to basically City of Jackson go out and and be responsible for cleaning doing a lot of the cleanups.

So we will be talking about that, but thanks for bringing it up.

Any other comments here?

We uh covered some good ground.

I appreciate everybody's uh attention and attendance and input and appreciate all the folks that are here from the playing department as well and the and the attorneys.

Um if there's any other questions, if not, um we'll adjourn this committee meeting.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, we're gonna take about five minutes and