There's no coffin.

I'm done with that.

No coffee.

Good evening.

Welcome to the City of Joliet pre-council meeting for Monday, December 15th, 2025 at 5 30 in City Hall Council Chambers with the Mayor to Ridarcy presiding.

We'll begin with roll call.

Mayor Darcy.

Councilman Cardinals.

Here.

Councilman Clement.

Councilman Hug.

Here.

Councilwoman Abarra.

Here.

Councilman Moreno.

Here.

Councilman Mudron.

Here.

Councilwoman Quillman.

Here.

Councilwoman Rurdin.

Here.

Next is citizens to be heard on agenda items.

Is there anyone here that would like to speak on an agenda item?

Okay, seeing none.

Next we'll have the city manager review tomorrow night's actionable items.

Thanks, Todd.

Okay, so tomorrow night we will have appointments to the committee on citizens with disabilities, uh, reappointment to the planning commission, reappointment to the tree advisory board, and reappointment to the zoning board of appeals.

We'll also hear from uh the following committees communication technology and information systems, finance, public assets, and public service.

Tonight on the um sent agenda, we'll have approval.

Well, not tonight, but tomorrow you'll vote on our approval of the minutes, invoices to be paid, and our 2026 Joliet City Council meeting schedule.

Um just for consent tonight, council memo six fifty twenty-five request to approve funding for public safety PC replacement and an amount not to exceed two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

These are um upgrades that we're doing uh for the computers in police vehicles.

So um we started a pilot program to see how it worked.

It worked really well.

Uh everybody likes them, and um it'll actually save us some money in the end.

So uh probably can hear more from others when the committee reports out tomorrow, but that's exact that's what it's about.

Council Memo 65125, water contract to Orbis Solutions Inc.

for surveillance system hardware and insulation at the Ottawa Street Parking Deck in the amount of 116,927.

Um, this is a continuation of our investment in public safety.

Uh we've heard a lot from downtown businesses and just people visiting that that we need cameras in like the stairwells and all over the deck and other places, and we've been working with the chief intermittently on this because you've all you know um continue that uh investment in public service as well.

So this is a continuation of that.

Council Memo 6525, award of contract for the 2025 large meter replacement program to United Meters Inc.

in the amount of 242,501 dollars.

These um are our larger meters that service like hospitals, and um therefore critical for our water loss reduction as we're moving forward.

Um this we maintain over 50,000 water meters, over 400 of them are large meters, and so this is installation of those meters for our program.

Council Memo 65325, award of contract for the sanitary sewer rehabilitation project for the 2026 water main replacement program to national power routing core in the amount of $737, $425 or $737,425, and amendment number one to the professional services agreement for the 2026 sanitary sewer rehabilitation program with RJ and Group Inc.

for amount not to exceed $69,900.

So this is more about regulatory requirements we have from the EPA.

You have to have a certain number of feet between uh sewer and water for obvious reasons.

Um and if you can't do that, then you have the specialized lining that the EPA will approve, and this is the lining that we're doing for approval to meet those regulations.

Council memo six oh that's what I just did.

Council Memo 65425 approval professional services agreement for preliminary engineering for the 2027 water system rehabilitation program to Baxter and Woodman Inc.

in the amount of 89 898,700.

If you can't tell these are all water improvement projects that um we're just getting through council memo 65525, approval of amendment number three for the IDOT I 80 reconstruction coordination and Joliet water and sewer relocation feasibility study professional services agreement to V3 companies and the amount of $50,000, which will be reimbursed by the state.

Council Memo 65625 approval of change order number one for the Virginia Phase 1 water main improvement project to PT Faro Construction and the amount of 211,531 dollars and forty cents and pay estimate number six and final and the amount of six hundred and thirty-six thousand five dollars and one cents.

Council Memo 65725 award a contract for the bicentennial park theater stage rigging replacement to grand stage company in the amount of 117,000 dollars.

Question.

Yes, of course.

Yeah, now's appropriate time for questions.

Yeah, Beth, can you uh we we had a meeting uh an hour or half hour ago?

Sure.

And uh I'm satisfied.

I'm one of three, and you know, we approved uh that to come to full council um and gave us a great explanation.

I don't know if you want to touch on it.

Uh this is a specialty sure.

So this is a very specialty item when we started a review um of BIPARC, not just for management and operations, but also for safety.

Um this was the biggest safety concern for liability for the city if someone were to get hurt because it was um not as safe as it should be for a minute municipality and for the kids performing there and and everyone else.

So there are very few companies that do this type of work, and some of them are too big to even consider uh an amount like 119.

So we reached out to three companies that we knew did it.

Um, and the person that we ended up with with was the only one that um actually submitted a proposal, and they do work at Rialto Theater, they do work at JJC, they do work in Joliet.

So that's who we went with.

And it's really we're bringing it to you now so we can replace the rigging when the theater has downtime when there's not a lot of shows or you know, things for the the schools are putting on or whatever else.

It's really like a time period where we can shut it down, replace it, and move forward then.

And and um we learned also that this uh current lighting that's there now is from the 70s.

So it's extremely old and obsolete, and we're just kind of moving forward here.

So I like again, I was satisfied with with the meeting and where we're heading.

So any other questions?

Just I just want to make a comment that it's not a luxury, it's actually a safety issue.

This is a liability issue for the city.

Yeah, so it's like this, or somebody gets hurt and then we're facing a lawsuit.

Thank you.

The only thing I would add that is that they are gonna use um union labor uh iron workers.

You know, so it'll be local.

Local union iron workers, I think.

Thank you.

Yep.

Yep.

Thank you.

Yep, sure, no problem.

Matt, who determined it's out of code?

I'm sorry?

Who determined the rigging is out of code?

Um yeah, we had an inspection done.

Who who did the inspection?

Uh was it this?

I think it was this company that we awarded it to, yeah.

I think that fire did some too.

Can we hear from the chief?

No.

Did you guys?

We reached the uh fire safety.

Go ahead.

We did our uh our uh company inspections.

There was a lot of different issues throughout the building that hadn't been addressed, so I think that kind of started the ball rolling of there was a lot of different storage and different fire hazards throughout the building that we were working to get corrected, and that's when kind of more issues were noticed with different different items around the we didn't do the inspection of the system per se.

We just did the overall and noticed there was a lot of things that were out of date, extinct systems or sprinklers systems, everything were out of date.

So um that started the whole ball to get everything going back to get everything up to date over there.

Okay, so you didn't inspect the rigging, that's not your expertise.

Okay, thanks, Chief.

But they just got everything kind of move in that direction.

Okay.

Uh I was curious, you know, what code are we are we basing this on?

I was in the industry at one time, I'm familiar.

Okay.

Um, you know, and having the uh the the company selling the equipment to you do the inspection to determine if it's uh out of out of uh I I see your point there.

Um they're just the only one that responded that was even qualified to do the work.

We knew we had to do the work.

How did we know that?

Who inspected it prior to them coming out?

Well, I could even show you in pictures, Larry, but I don't want to talk about how we had Jerry rigged equipment in a public facility, like this is for safety.

So I believe that it was one of the three companies that we reached out to.

But Ann, can you please clarify specifically for Larry?

Yes, I'm happy to clarify.

So it was grand stage that came out.

They actually identified they're pretty sure that they were the ones who installed the initial rigging in the 70s, and there was in addition to the current rigging system, there was other rigging installed at a later date that was not installed properly, and they were able to tell that for a variety of reasons that were in the letter that they sent as part of the proposal that was actually published in the article from the patch if you'd like to see it there, or I am happy to send it to you.

And as far as the code, this is not my language, but I do actually have what the code is, um, and I'm happy to send that as well.

If you would, I'd appreciate it.

Anybody?

Okay, council memo 65825 authorization to approve draw 14 for tax increment financing, district number seven and the amount of six hundred and seventy-seven thousand, thirty-one dollars and four cents.

This is for rock run development and has been reviewed by public works.

Moving on to ordinances, council memo 660 25 ordinance abating the tech taxes heretofore levied for the year 2025 to pay debt service on three million six hundred and sixty-five thousand general obligation bonds series 2020 and 93,595 general obligation bonds series 2022 of the City of Joliet, Will and Kendall Counties, Illinois, of the City of Juliet, Will and Kennel Counties, Illinois.

Um these levies are about like for the city uses local motor fuel tax for vehicle replacements, TIFF revenues for rock run.

These were all um agreements made before before this administration, and this ordinance is necessary to remove the levies for the 2025 paid and 2026.

Are there any further questions I would like Kevin to address them?

Because it's this is really getting into the weeds.

Um so if anybody else has questions, we'll direct them towards Kevin.

It's 93 million five ninety-five, if I'm not mistaken.

Did I say it wrong?

I wish it says nine ninety-three million five hundred and ninety-five thousand.

Yeah.

Sorry, I misspoke.

I think you might have said ninety-three thousand.

Sorry.

Sorry.

We wish it was that it just for the record.

Mayor we wish.

93 million five hundred and ninety-five thousand.

How's that one?

Yeah.

That what works.

Mayor, yeah.

Uh Kevin, correct me if I'm wrong, if I understand this correctly, as a layman, essentially what we're saying is we're not going to have it as part of the um property tax levy because we pay for it with a different source being the MFT.

Correct.

Okay.

Anyone else?

Larry, you should take my job.

No, I don't want that.

Come here.

Come over here and go through all of it with all of us.

Okay, Council Memo 66125 ordinance approving the 2026 fiscal year budget for the city of Joliet.

Will County and Kendall Counties in Illinois.

This is the um, is this be a wonderful opportunity for all of us to talk about any?

I mean, I know that we've been in touch uh with the council members.

I I've heard some concerns, questions.

I know that Kevin has um has handled a lot of them, but anything else that we'd like to discuss about that, I'm happy to do so now.

Mayor, I have a couple questions.

So did we get the um so we had a consultant here a few years ago to see how many people that we needed, and then we had another you hired another person to look at this.

Do we have that to look at what specifically?

What um how many more people you wanted to hire?

And where they were needed.

So the staffing study you just um approved, yeah, and that is gonna kick off in January.

So why are we budgeting for extra jobs and we don't even know if we need them yet?

Because I know as a city manager that we're bare bones for things, and if we want to like if you're talking about which I believe that you're worried about um arts and culture, and so if it's the all arts and culture positions, it's because we are professionalizing all of it.

We are gonna start maintaining our public works that Larry's always saying that we like put it up and then we never take care of it anymore.

We're gonna be looking at doing all those things.

We're also gonna be implementing a permitting system that people fill out that we have deadlines for because what we're still getting now is like somebody on a Wednesday is is telling us we're gonna have uh an event on Saturday, and we've got like two days, and it's not enough time for like police and fire and EMA and everybody to get it and be included in planning for the safety of these events for our community.

So with permitting as well, like we didn't do it before, it was just like one person deciding if you could do this or not do this.

We like now we'll actually be tracking these things and making sure that we have appropriate police and fire.

Like we've been doing it piecemeal, and so now there will be one person that communicates with everyone on all citywide events that we have, or events that other people want to apply for, and throughout the permitting system, it pays for itself because people are actually paying permit fees.

Like a lot of what we've done uh historically here is just I'm gonna have this, and there's there aren't a lot of checkpoints for police and fire for the city on tracking as it goes all the way through to make sure that uh we have the resources available.

So sometimes the police are not available, like sometimes somebody will say on a Wednesday when I have something on s Saturday, and we just don't have the bandwidth, you know.

It will it is an an issue.

We're doing much better on recruitment that um Chief Evans will tell you but and and getting more people in, but we're so bare bones uh for our police as well.

Um that they can't do it all either, and that's kind of what they have been handling.

So I guess my question is are you gonna hire somebody just to take care of bicentennial park?

No, you're not gonna do that.

No.

Okay.

So there will there's a manager because there's a vacant position now.

Um so there's a manager that's posted right now to fill in there.

This person will be all city events, all permitting for all city events and coordinating between all of our um all of our departments.

Police and fire.

Yeah, mainly police and fire and EMA, which now we have a really good EMA director as well.

So we're just trying to professionalize and um run these successful events so we can attract people to come to Joliet.

Okay.

I don't agree, but okay.

Well, we just hired somebody to do all this, and now all of a sudden, we hired a director because another director.

What which one are we talking about here?

Is this HI or Events Coordinator?

Events coordinator.

Yes.

So these are the reasons because yes, we have a events coordinator, but she oversees everything and she's doing it all herself now, but we don't have like someone that can just dedicate it to it so we can we can process things professionally.

These are just like little things that have come up in like my last two years where it's like very last second, how do we scramble to get everybody there that we need to get there to make sure this happens?

This is just like a more it's someone one person that's in charge of permitting and programming and coordinating, and um like we don't have a citywide events calendar right now.

There's nowhere that people can go and just be like, what's happening in Joliet this weekend?

Which we need because if I mean but wouldn't that be the PR person that gets all the news out for us?

No events coordinator gives that to the C person.

So she's but an event coordinator.

So do you understand what I mean by permitting system?

Yes.

Okay, so the communications director's job is to get information pushed out to the city, right?

But we also need expertise about actually planning these professional events.

And I know you're looking at Anne like she's gotta do everything.

No, but wait a minute.

I'm you know, let's not talk about this right now, okay?

Because you're going down the wrong path with me on this.

Okay.

I have something to talk about.

I just mayor, I'm not finished.

Oh, it sounded like you were finished.

Point of order.

So anyway, uh, I discussed this with Anne, and um I was looking at things that were being done, and uh at this point, I don't feel like we need another event person at this time.

She was just hired, so you gotta take a little wise to get the lay of the land and coordinate before you need another person on board.

So I think that this is just where I have 20 years of experience and the difficulties I've had in the last couple of years have really shown a real need for that, and I respect your opinion, and that's what I mean.

You're an at-large council member, you represent the whole city.

I do not take that personally at all whatsoever.

So that is totally fine.

But that's yeah.

Right.

So I had to bring it up.

Okay.

Of course, of course.

That is that is your job, and you're doing your job, and I totally understand it.

Mine is just to express to you all like why some of these things are are here.

Okay, thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Mayor.

So I did tell this to Kevin Singh, but I'd like to say this publicly, it's nothing you haven't heard for the last two years.

I want some just some equity for district five.

I don't need to walk every street in District Five to know that most of the streets and sidewalks in District Five, um, starting with the east side are just horrendous.

We at one point had we were trying to schedule a trolley tour, the weather did not cooperate.

We don't probably need a trolley tour to know there has not been a lot of equity in this district at all historically for the last 50 plus years.

So I would like some equity for district five in the roads and the sidewalks.

We need to put some money into the district, in particular the south starting of the south side and the east side of the district.

That's what I would like to see.

So when we're talking about money for roads and sidewalks, district five is by far the worst district in the city of Joliet.

So I would like to see some money appropriated for that.

And Kevin knows because I talked to him about it.

Thank you.

First, on the upbeat, the good news.

I'll thank Kevin.

I talked to it, and uh while we went from 200,000 a year for sidewalks to a million several years ago.

Uh we talked about it, Kevin, and it doubled it, not just to two million, but two million minimum.

And I think that's something that everybody should be understanding because you know that's probably a bigger complaint than than roads oftentimes is the sidewalk conditions.

So we've gone from 200,000 10 years ago to a million or 1.2 million last this this year, and we're gonna go to two million or more.

Minimum of two million.

Am I correct, Kevin?

Minimum of two million next year.

Correct.

So we'll be roughly doubling the amount of sidewalk repairs, and we need to do that to catch up.

Quick question before I go further from Greg.

Greg, when it comes to streets and sidewalks, you know, it comes through the public service committee.

You pretty much don't you divide it up amongst all five districts fairly evenly.

I mean, not exact to a penny, but fairly evenly.

Yeah, we try to, and um one thing that's occurred in the last several years is um the resurfacings have kind of swung further west, and the reason was uh all the water main projects going on.

We don't want to resurface a road and then have a uh water main project come through and and excavate the the brand new road and have a patch.

So um when the water main projects first started coming in, we kind of made note at public service that the next several years, this being you know, it's been the last couple years, the the focus or the money is gonna probably be spent out uh further west.

But then as these water main projects are being finished up, which they now are, we're gonna swing back east with some of those dollars and take care of those because um again, we don't want to throw good money um away by resurfacing a road and then have it you know excavated and patch the following year.

So we've been coordinating with public utilities on the on when those jobs are done, and now uh you know we we're trying to wait two years after the water main is installed to allow settling or any problems to surface um and then come in.

So I think probably you know, starting this year or maybe next year or next several years, honestly, we'll be swinging back.

When you say further west, some of the newer water mains are anything west of Essington, basically.

Yeah, but I'm talking about the near west.

Uh no, but say west of Essington.

Um some of the subdivisions that were built like 25, 30 years ago, we've we've spent money out there because there's the water main is not being replaced in those areas.

But the areas where it is being replaced, we've kind of got it held back a little bit, and now we're gonna be moving back to the right.

So a lot of the water main replacements are on the narrow west side as far as well as the near east side.

That's correct.

Not the far west, and oftentimes people forget about far east out by the Gogar Road Corps.

Yeah, and and those areas there's not a lot of things.

Yeah, those are newer as well.

And so over the last couple of years, you've been doing a lot of uh water projects, uh, I should say that uh public utilities has uh on the narrow west and east side, and then you wait two years to now we're gonna uh be starting to swing into some of those areas.

Okay.

Um question from the councilwoman.

I don't know.

And I just like to clarify for you, Jan.

I don't think I did a good job of it.

Um I I'm gonna have Ann talk about the different positions and the different responsibilities and all that, because I don't feel like I got my message across.

I wasn't being articulate enough on it.

So Ann, do you mind helping me with that?

Sure, thank you.

And thanks, Jan, as always, for the questions, as you know, I'm always happy to answer them.

I mean, I think you know, I was hired in this position um in August because the mayor and the city manager identified a need and the importance for arts and culture.

And I know I shared notes with you that arts and culture has a significant economic impact to the city of Joliet.

And in my role, my job is to make Joliet a great place to live, work, and visit.

Twenty twenty-six is going to be a very exciting time for the city of Joliet.

Not only do we have the opening of City Square, we have Route 66 Centennial, of which Joliet is already owning that.

We also have the 250th anniversary.

In order to do that, you need the substantial staff to be able to not only execute it well, but also safely.

Beth identified some different elements of challenges that we've had with the current permitting system, which is why we specifically created that special events coordinator position.

But let me start kind of from the top.

So as the director of cultural affairs and special events, I am responsible for overseeing all of the elements for arts and culture.

The manager for special events, which has just been posted.

It was a reposting, but we did slightly shift some of the responsibilities.

That person will oversee the programming and operations of bicentennial park, but they were also enveloped the responsibilities of City Square, which allows a special event coordinator to come in and really focus on honestly what I've been hearing from the city council since I got here.

It's really that professionalized service and being able to have customer service and answering.

It's also ensuring that we have good communications with public safety for police and fire to make sure not only we're getting um a good response in planning, but we're actually getting the revenue back, not the revenue, excuse me, the costs covered for that.

Um and really just making sure everything is put together.

So those are the three overall positions that we're talking about here.

Does that answer your question?

To a point.

Okay.

Because I just I feel like this.

You just got here, and now it seems like oh, I have all this stuff to do, and I need somebody to help me.

And you haven't been here that long.

I was just trying to figure out why why not wait a little longer to see exactly what you need.

Because a lot of these events, they take on their they do their own, like the Santa thing that Santa sent off was all done.

Yes, um, but we're hoping that this actually creates new events and new things coming in.

And getting exposure for Joliet at a regional and national level will attract more people here.

So, yes, I have only been here four months, but I do work fast, and there is a lot to do.

And not only, like I said, do we want to make sure we're able to do it from a capacity standpoint, but that we're doing it safely for everyone that's attending.

Well, that's what we needed to hear because you know everything's been out there.

I've been getting phone calls, so we needed to get this clarified and out there.

So if you're oh we appreciate the opportunity to clarify because what is reflected in the press isn't always the truth.

Right.

I mean, this is our our problem.

Little pieces get out there, and it's a telephone system and build and build and build and build, and it's not that way at all.

And this is where we made our mistake, and we need to better communicate with our constituents, especially with every little thing, this whole data center, another whole thing.

Yeah, but that's blown up.

I had a meeting about that earlier today.

So that's why I'm that's why I'm asking these questions because these are the questions that the residents want to know about.

Yes.

Thank you for asking them.

Thank you.

Mayor, I wasn't quite finished with this off.

Oh, I'm so sorry, Larry.

I thought you were done.

It's okay.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Um, so I wanted to give kudos, you know, particularly for the sidewalks.

Overall, you know, I'm not gonna belabor the point.

Since 2022, we have increased staff by 10 percent.

This is gonna uh edging it towards 11 percent.

We can talk about opinions about the importance of cultural events and our and everything else.

Um they need to be quantified.

I it it doesn't sway me if anybody says this is gonna be great for economic development.

Show me some numbers.

Also remember that you know the amount of staffing they might have in a larger city, say like Chicago, Jolie, that's not gonna be able to support that kind of staffing without big increases in taxes, nor do we need it.

We're not 2.8 million people, we're 150,000.

I think we're equivalent to maybe a couple of neighborhoods in Chicago.

Um so again, this this this budget's uh too rich on expensive, you know.

We didn't cut back on any of the taxes that we had an opportunity to do.

We didn't uh uh hold solid on the uh um levy that I voted against too, so I won't be supporting the budget for that reason.

I support part parts of it.

But uh, you know, last I looked of the Kevin correct me of the 11 positions this year.

We won't go back over the these 80 or 90 positions we've had.

We've added since 22.

Of the 11 positions, how many will fill potholes and and and uh repair water mains?

Somebody brought that up some.

I forget which person here said that it's it's about you know adding for infrastructure.

I don't think we have any uh street workers added or any um sewer and water workers added, correct?

There is one service worker for utilities that's in there that will could help with some of that.

And if you could talk about the positions in finance, Kevin, and how we need to be serving more of our Yeah, so that's where you've got so in the suit.

We've got three in the sewer and water fund.

One is uh clerk typist and customer service which helps with the walk-ins uh that we've seen an increase of at the counter.

Um and then one other uh for help with uh water shut offs.

Yeah, water and sewer and water shutoffs.

Uh so that you know, as we move to Chicago water, we need to make sure people are paying their their bills so that people that are paying aren't subsidizing those that aren't.

Um so we find that you know, obviously, as we can be more aggressive on there, meaning that we're catching people when the balances are lower, we have a lot more success.

And then a service worker that helps uh with the work uh from the field staff and having to dedicate extra people towards that this position will help with that that will allow Alison to use her other resources for other things as well.

Um that's the thing uh as far as opinions.

We all have opinions, and that's fantastic, but that's why you have elected representatives that live amongst you because we all have different opinions, and then the majority will vote on the opinion they like.

And I may agree or disagree with the majority given any time.

So in the last since you've gotten here, how many public service and public utilities positions have we added over the last three, four years?

I don't remember off the top of my head.

I I'd have to go back and look.

I know the I'm going off memory, Kevin.

Yeah, I know we had a um in we can if you don't have it at the top of your head, we can definitely get we'll we'll just respond to you in writing like you.

Right.

Well I had a meeting with a meeting with Kevin several weeks.

We have several meetings, you know, um, and uh it was three or four.

Okay.

Um is not a lot for infrastructure.

I've not had I had zero constituents throughout the city, and particularly in district one complain that they're waiting in line or you know, things that the clerical staff would would they're concerned about sidewalks and streets.

Come hang out with me for an afternoon.

And say, well, I hang out in my district.

Yeah.

So uh with that said, you know, I I I don't see, you know.

So uh we're we're an anomaly in in today's digital world, while private companies and public institutions show that people are migrating to the internet to get their business done, including paying bills.

We're not.

We're going the other way now.

That to me sounds kind of odd.

You know, I mean I I we again we need to.

I don't disagree with you.

I it's just I today is an example that we saw, you know, I had probably eight to ten people in line with almost every staff member available working the windows.

And then last week I got a c call from a resident who already exhausted yelling at the supervisor because she was waiting in line, and I I spoke to her as well.

It it is weird it's happening.

I don't know if it's a demographics that we're seeing, but we're seeing a lot over the past 12 months of additional foot traffic coming into the city hall.

And Chris Journald's doing an amazing job making sure that we have the right technology as well.

So we're well on our way there.

Yeah, site.

You know, payment.

Yeah, absolutely.

We're even evaluating additional, as I call them self-checkouts.

We've got one kiesk in the lobby that people, after waiting in line will go over and use.

We're looking at adding a second one just because people are coming in to pay their bills.

I I don't understand.

Being district one centric, I I can't speak to the other four districts.

I can a little bit because I don't, you know, just but I'm very much focused on district one.

Um most of the people out there that I speak with pay it online.

Some have automatic payment.

You know, so again, so I I'm not gonna support this budget.

I I support some of the stuff, but I won't support the budget moving forward.

I do agree with councilwoman Quillman, and I heard the explanation, Beth.

Uh, I don't need another explanation.

Again, it's a matter of different opinions.

And you have to totally respect that.

You have to sort through opinions and decide.

You know, again, nobody's opinion wins me over unless they bring quantifiable facts and numbers.

Um for instance, it would be a little much better.

I don't know that if you have this available, Kevin, but if you were to say, well, we tracked it and in the three month of the third quarter, second quarter, three-month period of the second quarter, we had an average of 30 a day, uh, come in and pay in person, and then in the last three months it's it's skyrocketed 120.

Is that makes sense to me if we're tracking those numbers?

Going by gun instinct in the motion doesn't.

I do agree with the councilwoman that it doesn't make sense to hire anybody for anything right now.

You can we can wait a uh uh you know uh a number of months.

When we the the majority, I voted against it, but the majority of this council, I don't remember the vote, voted to hire, I think it was Beth, do you remember 150, 160,000?

What was the the price of the consultant for the uh 150,000?

And we're go we're getting ahead of the uh of the curve on that.

You know, we haven't even started looking at that yet, and we're already hiring, so maybe we should save the 150,000 if we're just gonna hire without waiting for that consultant to earn their 150.

That's my remarks.

I'm not here to convince of anybody anything, but I won't be supporting the budget tomorrow.

See Gentleman Hugg, you're here in 2016 when we voted on the um insurance plan until 2030.

Yes.

And you voted for that.

Yes, I did.

In the contract, yes.

Yeah, and so for till 2030, we have been encumbered by every insurance increase to date, and we'll do through 2030 and beyond.

So I respect the way that you watch a lot of the lower budget stuff in the city, but what confuses me, and first of all, I want to thank the union leaders of today, because they have agreed during the negotiations that they will sit down with the city and try and find a way to stop the growth cost of this Rolls-Royce insurance plan with a 250 dollar deductible.

Kevin, could you put that insurance up on the chart or up on the screen for me?

This is the part that I have to vote for the budget, but I I didn't choose this.

None of the nine of us up here chose this, with the exception of Councilman Hugg.

Councilman Quillman, she didn't vote on it, she abstained because her husband is a retired police officer, and uh Councilman Mudron voted against it.

But I want us I want you to see the numbers, and I don't want to embarrass anybody, but this is unbelievable that by 2030 we're gonna be spending 52 million dollars.

Is that what is 54 million, Kevin?

This year we're gonna spend 37 million to insure 1,580 people because of an agreement was made for 14 years, was it, Councilman Hugo?

2016 to 2030?

Did you ever expect in your wildest dreams that it would become this egregious to the city?

I'm in the insurance industry, and guess what?

Even private sectors is hurting on this.

This is a gotcha moment.

Congratulations, Terry.

Well, no, but I mean I listen to you a lot.

No, no, sorry, I got the floor.

Well, then don't ask me.

I have the floor.

Then don't ask me questions.

Okay, you're right.

Answer the question.

Okay, thank you.

Um so uh Kevin, Terry, you've gone back to that, and it's something that needs to be addressed and addressed in a reasonable fashion.

You keep going back to the 700 million dollar um unfunded, you know.

Nobody can say whether that's over 20, 30 or 40 years, but 700 million.

Kevin, tell them what it went down to.

So it's to uh uh 2024, it's 517 or 10.

It went down, Terry.

Didn't go up.

Which you I want to remind everyone the way this is calculated.

It assumes you're taking the funds and investing them in the bank.

Interest rates went up, so obviously the required amount of money would go down.

As interest rates go down, the numbers are gonna go back up.

And so, as I've mentioned to others, don't get hung up on the specific dollar amount, get hung up on the fact that there is a large amount of funds that would be needed to accomplish to pay for this liability in the long term.

And in the short term, yeah.

Because this year we're gonna spend 37 million dollars to insure everybody.

Now, if we can get everybody in the collective bargaining agreements to work with us and save four or five million.

They're already working with us.

They are, and I I thank them for that.

I mean, they all understand that only one person on the six that signed that are with us today.

The other five are retired and gone.

They understand the gravity of this situation.

So whether it's 500 million or 700 million, we have we have no choice on how to vote for that insurance plan.

Not one of us up here has a choice.

But these gentlemen and these ladies that are running these unions know that we can't continue to do this.

So if we can, and actually we've adopted a better plan that some of the non-union and the retirees have taken.

This how much did that save on a hundred people, Kevin?

Was uh three to five hundred thousand.

So every hundred people that we can get to move to this other plan, what's actually better or equal to or better, right?

Depends how you look at it.

Some feel it's better plan, some feels the same.

So we get a if we get a thousand people to it out of fifteen hundred, then we save them five million a year.

How many sidewalks do you think we put in for five million a year?

A lot.

This is the part of the budget that none of us have a choice on.

I just want don't shoot the messenger, but understand in my business, I have never ever run a three or four-year contract that went beyond the terms of that three or four years.

So that this is what bothers me is that I hear about this and that and hiring and trying to make it a better city.

This never gets talked about, and I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, and I do respect the union leaders now because they understand the gravity of the situation.

So I want to remind everyone that this is with us whether we like it or not, and the only way it can change is through the grace of our partnership with our union leaders.

And that's only somewhat because all the retirees, we don't we can't change them.

I think that was looked at.

There's nothing we can do.

That that goes on into perpetuity.

So this isn't gonna stop in 2030.

That that 54 million is continued to compound unless we can start to make some changes.

And in response, this was not given.

I was there, I was here in 2016 when they did this.

This wasn't just given for no reason.

This was given for three zeros, which saved three to six million a year compounded every year.

So there was a trade-off on it that was given.

Was it the right decision at the time?

Yes.

Does it need to be recon uh reconsidered or revisited as we're doing now?

Sure.

Has nothing to do, we have no control over the contracts that are in force.

It is what it is.

We have no control over the health care under those contracts.

Right.

We do have control over paying $350,000 for a small uh a small street street sweeper for the you know the plaza.

We do have discretionary spending.

You're damn right that I'm focused on discretionary spending.

There's a lot of other spending you're right.

I could be focused on Terry, but I can't do anything about them.

We can do something about discretionary spending.

We can't do anything that's locked in under contract.

But again, that contract was a trade-off of three zeros.

Two zeros, Larry.

We had three total.

I saw two in the contract, but maybe I read it wrong.

But everybody that gets hired right now gets the same deal, right?

They didn't they weren't affected by the zeros back in 2016-17, right?

Their position was.

Their position was, but everybody's caught up.

Right, but the positions that kept the positions from getting up higher, you know, for per position.

We we are we pay this city pays more than fair to everyone that was.

Oh, yes, we do.

But everybody that gets hired today gets the same insurance deal as those folks back in 2016 took a couple zeros.

Well, Terry, you're right, we pay well.

But without those zeros that were given an exchange in 2016, we would we would be paying higher right now.

And it compounded narrowly.

So there is a trade-off.

And those numbers need to be presented, and that's something that Kevin can do.

I'm all on numbers.

You know that.

I'm up bring the numbers up.

But it saves quite a bit.

But has it outlived this usefulness?

You know, if the unions are willing to negotiate, great, we should be negotiating that to you know to well, they are right.

That's great.

You have to go with what you had, but that has nothing to do with keeping a thumb on discretionary spending.

That's not discretionary at this point.

That's contractual.

Once the contracts are up and over, then it becomes discretionary.

Then you can you can dig in your heels and you can negotiate.

But I'm I'm gonna deal with the discretionary spending that we do.

You know, the the uh 200,000 for the for the dome.

The you know, I'm not gonna go through the ad nauseum, the list of things we've done, the number of positions we've added, of which only three or four are actually affecting our streets and sidewalks, and twenty or twenty-five are police and fire.

It's it's a lot of other white collar.

Um you may think you may very well think that uh arts and culture are more important than certain things, whether it be a higher amount for sidewalks.

I don't.

I don't believe we need that.

Nobody has quantified it.

Show me where it's gonna bring in revenue from the economic development uh standpoint.

I know enough about economic development to understand if you bring it to me.

Bring it to me.

It's not there, it's it's a guess, it's an emotion.

Okay.

Well, I just want to remind everybody that we don't have a choice on this, with the exception of the unions working with us.

That's what I want to remind everyone, because it's gonna go from Kevin.

What was you you pulled it down on me, but just get to zoom in in the bottom part.

Okay.

So 2027, 2026, we're gonna invest 37.

37 million.

It'll be 20 million more in the next four years.

That's a whole lot of roads and sidewalks and police and fire and everything else.

So I'm just trying to point out, Councilman Hugg, that while we can look at ancillary things like a dome for 197,000, we're gonna be spending over a million dollars a week on health insurance, a million dollars a week in 2030.

So that's something that we have to vote on a budget, but we can't stop the budget because of that decision.

Well, that's that's my point.

Right, but that's all the more reason because it's not discretionary.

All the other discretionary items, the new positions, the domes and all that, we can control until we come to an understanding with the unions.

Okay.

I I just don't agree with you.

Councilman Hugg, I think that we need to make this city a city where everyone loves to come here, loves to work here, loves to live here.

But I just want to continue to point out that the previous administration just straddled us to this deal, and they didn't look out the 16 or 14 years to the point where it's 57 million dollars a year that comes out of our general fund that could do a hell of a lot of cyborgs.

If everybody even followed the tide of the cost up and they were paying 2500 a year instead of 1200 a year, we would save millions of dollars.

That that's just my point.

And and I I hear what you say about we got to save 100 grand here and 200 grand there because we don't want to look any better, but we do have to come come to a conclusion with this one.

We just have to make the city what the residents want it to be, not what each of the residents want to spend a million dollars a week on health insurance.

Well they certainly certainly don't enjoy buying the didn't vote on it.

They didn't buy and enjoy buying the dome.

That was that one down in flames.

Come on, Larry, 200 grand it's a good idea.

I like the dome.

I like the dome too.

I like people like that.

Can I Mayor?

Mayor, can I can I make it?

Mayor, can I make a comment?

Are you done, Larry?

I'm done.

Okay.

Can I um two things?

I think on the uh with the past experience that I've had in events and things like that.

I know that uh the permitting process has been a pain, a real pain, because it's like a one we've always had like a one size fits all type of permitting process with like 16 pages, even if you just want to do a food truck or so.

I think that's like step one of definitely of of service for people in the complaints that I've heard uh with events of people just they've been having parties at block parties or whatnot.

Uh there's no easy process.

Like I said, you get a 16-page uh permitting thing you've got to do, and it's just it's a real pain.

Uh so for that, and I and and I'm very big on the arts and culture, because I think that that is something, you know, as I've been fortunate enough to be able to travel around a lot of other cities, and you see it everywhere, and you see the tourism and the and the amount of people that are traveling through.

Um and I see it now, people traveling through our city.

Um, and you know, I know and there's ways, and I'm sure we're gonna be able to find ways to quantify their gonna have there's data back there.

I think we just gotta pull it and whatnot, putt those numbers together.

But there's proven data that it's it's part of economic development and it's in tourism drives people and it builds our restaurants and businesses and everything else.

Um that's all I'm gonna say on that one.

The other thing, Greg, if you can just clarify for me, because then I'm gonna get these calls on the repavement of the streets.

So as you mentioned, because and I understand it, but I just want the public to understand that before we start getting all these calls, right?

Especially on our side of the district.

So once these mains have just been redone, like say for instance, I live in Parkwood, might you know they just got done.

More than likely it'll be two years before we get that repaved because we've got to wait for the Yeah, and I can't promise that it'll be exactly two years.

It might be, you know, uh a few years out from that.

We'll we'll assess all the the streets as needed.

And some are in worse condition than others, obviously.

But that that was always the intent was to start moving into those areas once the water mains said done were done uh and and there's a warranty um that public utilities is getting on some of that work or waiting until that expires, they take care of any initial problems if they're settling or if they have to you know excavate something up so that we're again we're not repaving something and then immediately excavating it up or it settles out or something like that.

So that that is the intent to start moving into some of those areas, and we're we're starting to hit that point now.

And I totally understand it, and I hope that we can maybe in our communication side of things to really put that out there so that the public knows that a lot of these projects, especially again, we're gonna look at the east side of the districts four and five and stuff where a lot of these projects happen to not get you know, not to to understand that it's gonna take a while before we go repave all these roads for the reasons of like you know, if they need warranty work and you know everything else in the settling, um, and not to think that it's not happening because we're just don't care about the east side of Joel yet.

But I just want people to understand I think we're gonna have to hit that message repeatedly, maybe every six months to remind people why we haven't repaved.

Um but I understand why, and we just gotta make sure we get that out there.

So just my recommendation to do that.

Yeah, we can work with uh public utilities and trying to craft a message.

Thank you.

Mayor Mayor.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Um, yeah, great dialogue and discussion.

I think it's healthy.

Um I want I can vouch for uh City Hall and the windows there between 11 o'clock to like two, it is you know, everybody comes to pay, and it's always around lunchtime.

And when I worked in City Hall, out of the mayor's office, the line would be almost out the door.

So obviously it's still still going on.

So I don't know what why why it's like that, but it's like that.

It's just I witnessed it firsthand.

So I I just wanted to say one more thing about the roads, because I think when you first spoke, it sounded like we were focusing on the west side only from the standpoint.

I think what you were saying was that we know that we're not gonna be replacing water mains out there.

So while we have the resources to work out there and and get that area completed with what needs to be done, we're going to do it because we're not going to be ripping up those roads anytime soon.

And we all can remember seeing like Essington Road just got beautifully paved, and then a month later they're ripping it up for a water main break.

So we're trying to avoid that wasteful spending of the resources to do roads and then have to re-tear them up.

So instead, where we know we won't be replacing water main mains, or we shouldn't have to.

We're going to get those those streets squared away and then start working back to the other ones.

Yeah, that's correct.

And I don't want to make it seem like we're just spending money to spend it.

Um a lot of uh we'll call the far west side um, say Essington or 59 West.

Those those streets are coming up on 25, 30 years old, and they're in need of resurfacing also.

So we have needs all throughout the city.

It's just we again we don't want to uh spend money where we know we're gonna be excavating roads again in the in the very near future.

Thank you.

I just have one more thing to say, Mayor.

We can probably argue all night and probably weeks in a row for the bad decisions of the previous council.

Um in 2015 or 2016 when that insurance decision was made, we're talking about five years later the pandemic hit and costs went up exponentially.

Sure, nobody could have um expected that.

However, I can tell you that a typical term of a contract is four years.

So why a decision was made for 15 years, and I feel like we're just in a stranglehold with this decision, but a million dollars, is that that's true?

A million dollars a week that is so egregious.

There's no business that could sustain something like that.

Um the other thing I wanted to really clarify is that I'm the chairwoman of the public assets committee, and since I took over the public assets committee, I can see that for money, like in the reserves, they deferred maintenance on so many things.

The historical museum, um, many things needed to be done there.

Uh Union Station, bicentennial park, so many things needed to be done.

When you defer maintenance on something, you defer maintenance on your car, the engine light is on, and you just wait and wait and wait, the problem gets bigger and bigger, and more things you know go wrong.

So I know a lot of the expenses we have done are just basically catching up at this point and making sure things are safe and we put our best foot forward as a city, because we're the what third, fourth largest city in Illinois.

We should put our best foot forward in every aspect we should be putting our best foot forward.

And that includes staff, because staff translates to service to our clients.

Our clients are residents.

So we want the very best we can possibly get for our residents in the city of Joliet.

We are the city of champions, let's not forget that.

And just to clarify for Greg Ruddy, that in specific the areas that I would first come to mind, just so you know, so we can get this out of the way, is the South End.

So right over the McDonough Street Bridge going west to east, as soon as you go over the McDonough Street Bridge, everything to the right and everything to the left.

I challenge anybody to find one single walkable uh sidewalk in those areas.

And some of those areas have um the Warren Sharp Center, a nice park where kids play.

I tripped right in front of it.

I flew probably five feet forward, and just because I was uh took dance lessons for 13 years, I didn't fall and get hurt, but that's that's a huge, huge concern.

Um also the second Baptists on the other side, so the Warren Sharp is on one side, second Baptist is on the other side.

That whole neighborhood, it's the same things for those sidewalks.

I think it's just neighborhoods that have historically been disregarded, and we really really need um to start there.

If I was waving my magic wand, I would start there because those neighborhoods are historically disregarded.

Thank you.

You know, some folks are saying that there's data out there on a discussion we all just had.

That's an emotional statement.

There's a lot of data out there.

There's a lot, a lot of proof that these things were.

If there's data, bring it to us.

That's all I ask.

Bring me the data.

If there's data, bring it to me.

If you know it exists, then you must have seen it.

If you've seen it, you can collect it and bring it to the council.

Right?

Data on what, Larry?

Whether, you know, all kinds of things that we just discussed.

The the different things like the the dome, and that's gonna be an economic advantage, you know, is some claims, or the cultural the focus on cultural culture and arts and adding two new positions for it.

That's gonna have it's people let's not just recently here tonight.

Well, that's gonna you know, come back with economic uh benefit.

There's plenty of data proving that.

Okay, show us the data then.

It's one thing to say it exists, it's another thing to show me it exists.

And with that said, yeah, we can rubberneck the decisions made in 2016.

You're welcome to do it.

Congratulations, right?

At the time it was a unanimous vote.

No, it wasn't.

Oh, we had one person that voted against it.

That's right.

And one abstained.

Right.

And it was so it was unanimous outside of the one that voted against that and the one in abstention.

Um there was what we felt we had to do at the time.

Looking back, can people second guess and say, hey, looking back in 2025, like the councilwoman just pointed out, if you guys have known in 2020 or 2022 what was going to happen, would you have thought differently?

Possibly.

So we can we can rubber knock.

I have no problem with that.

We can we can arms your quarterback and look back.

Let's look at the mistakes that we're making now.

And not let's stop them before we make them.

That's all I have to say.

We don't have a whole lot of breathing room left.

Larry at 57 million bucks a year on health insurance.

We're gonna continue to shrink what we can do, so that's my only point.

And I'm talking as a taxpayer right now.

So am I?

You know what?

My point too is this 16-year contract because I will never forget the day that I heard that vote come through.

Yeah, I was not on the council, but I am in health insurance, part of my business.

And that was when health insurance was just beginning to explode in costs.

It was going insane.

I I I was every person I talked to was I'm so sorry I can't change this.

It is what it is now.

It's going crazy, going crazy.

And I saw that come through the council, and the first thing I did was call Mr.

Mudron.

And I said, You are in this business.

Why would you guys let that happen?

He said, Did you see what I voted?

And I go, I didn't.

He said, I voted no.

So well, I'm sorry you couldn't have convinced them with the knowledge that we have of insurance to not maybe you you do it the for the contract, but for 16 years I knew right then what a mistake it was.

I just did.

So great rehashing.

Thank you guys.

We rehash.

Now let's talk about the wasteful spending today in the shirt.

That is wasteful spending.

So I'm I'm sick of rehashing the little things because you keep looking at this like it doesn't exist.

It does.

But thank God that our unions are listening and saying we know we got to help you make a change.

Have you called them?

I told you with the unions.

I talked to the unions.

I know you have.

Yeah.

Anyway, let's keep moving.

Let's focus on 2026.

All right.

Okay.

Moving on to resolutions.

Council Memo 66325, resolution accepting a license agreement from Canadian National Railroad Company for the Washington Street Water Main Improvement Project.

Council Memo 66425.

Resolution accepting a grant of temporary easement from the Joliet Park District for the Washington Street Water Main Improvement Project.

Council Memo 66525 resolution accepting a license agreement from Metra for the Washington Street Water Man Main Improvement Project.

Council Memo 66625 resolution appointing an authorized agent for purposes of the Illinois Municipal Retirement Fund.

Council Memo 66725 resolution authorizing the execution of a coast cost of sharing agreement with center point for pace bus route 511.

Council Memo 66825 resolution authorizing the release of closed session minutes.

And that concludes the agenda for tomorrow.

Next is public comments.

Is there anyone who would like to address the council this evening?

Hey, uh as far as the streets for District 5, you know, I have to three with Susan because you know Lairway Row from basically center point way all the way Bridge Street.

I mean, especially from Route 53 to Brake Street.

You go down Laraway Road there, and you're driving on a washboard.

You're outside like this, up and down, up and down.

You pray your vehicle don't fall apart.

And then center point way, the street center point supposed to be taken care of on center point way, you know, south of uh Laraway Road.

Them streets, you know, center point ain't taken care of this stuff.

You know, I go down that way and the road is grooved so bad, it's humped up because of the grooves of semi-trucks are bringing in the asphalt road because ash vault just simply does not hold up to the way to semi trucks, and that is becoming the big thing and big problem here with all the roads going to hell because of all the semi-trucks joining you know the ash vault roads just don't hold up, and that's the same as on the highways.

That's why the highway work does never get ended, because as soon as they get it done, trucks already got tore up again.

You know, so we need to get something away to start making these warehouses and that start paying for their fair share of the road maintenance and road repairs instead of making taxpayers pay for it all the time.

Because it's just disgusting of what you guys vote in and what then you know taxpayers have to sit there and pay for because of the damages of the trucks do.

And secondly, hearing you guys all talk about health insurance and that the health insurance argument here.

I want to know how many of you want wouldn't put up with not having any health insurance at all.

How many of you would rather want to have sit here and try to be on Medicaid, health insurance, and try to put up with their little loopholes of where you can go and you have to go to these specific places and put up with little state fund uh state paid doctors and don't give a crap about your diagnosis or treating you at all?

How many of you would want to put up with that?

You know how much you know I don't have either.

I don't have health insurance, I don't have Medicaid even.

And then I got all my medical issues I gotta contend with with my body.

I got two attacks and attacked twice since I got evicted out of my mother's place, and I got more pains, of course, added to my body because of it.

You know, just like week and a half ago, I tried going to orthopedics.

I was recommended I gotta go to a specialist.

I gotta go orthopedics on my on my rotator cup that got injured from what kind of sheriff.

I got my pain in my foot that I gotta go to from my other attack that I gotta go specialists on.

I made the appointment week and a half ago, you know, whatever.

I go to that day to go get my appointment, go to my appointment.

I gotta pay 120 dollars right out of my pocket just to walk in the door, the orthopedics.

No health insurance at all.

Out of my pocket, 120,000, I mean 120 dollars in that.

But I go to my appointment, and the first thing they ask if I've got my x-rays done.

It's like I told them when I get made my appointment that I already have my x-rays done, a future diagnostic, and then another another x-ray of my ankle done at St.

Joe's Hospital, which this orthopedics, Genesis Orthopedics Doctor's Office is connected right to St.

Joe's Hospital.

They said they were gonna get my X-rays and see if they needed more X-rays, if I needed more X-rays done.

Bottom line is I end up I couldn't go to my appointment.

They want to reschedule me, and I'm thinking, wait a minute, you might make me wait another two weeks or whatever to where I get another appointment, probably in another month to get another appointment with this place.

Needless to say, we had argument and everything, and they have no direct number to their office either.

You know, like Joey at primary care.

When you call these places, you get one location, and you're trying to talk to the location you're talking to.

In fact, Genesis location ends up you're talking to a guy out in the Philippines somewhere.

Don't even get speak to the office.

So he's gotta think about it.

Is there anyone else who would like to address the council this evening?

Okay, seeing none, I did receive a request for closed session.

Is there a motion to go into closed session to discuss personnel, collective bargaining, land acquisition, or conveyance pending, or threatening threatened litigation after which the meeting will adjourn?

So it's a motion and second and to approve.

Council McCartiness.

All right, councilman Clement.

All right, councilman Hug.

Councilwoman of Councilman Moreno.

All right, councilman Mudrin.

Councilman Quillman.

Councilman Verdon.

Mayor Darcy.

Motion carried.

Carried.