How would we call them we need to order and then we do an election, right?

I think the the mayor, yeah, mayor.

Mayor appointed.

Mayor can point it.

That's fine.

Sure.

Whatever you want to do.

We want to do that?

Yeah.

A point?

Okay.

Sure, why not?

Mayor, you want to kick it off then?

And then appoint.

Well, first I want to thank Leslie and Stephen for coming in to work with us today.

We're super excited about that.

And then I'd like to have a show of hands who would like to elect Hugh O'Hare to run the meeting today.

Anyone opposed?

Okay, the eyes have it.

All right.

We just need a formal chairman today.

Yeah.

Do we need to do a roll call?

We do need to do a roll call.

Okay.

We don't have to call a couple.

Mayor Darcy.

Here.

Councilman Cardinals.

Here.

Ms.

Bottomly.

She said she'd be running late.

Mr.

Doris said he would be absent.

Ms.

Gruenberg.

Present.

Ms.

Howard?

Here.

Mr.

Martin is running late.

Mr.

O'Hara?

Here.

Mr.

Parker, not here yet.

Mr.

Pryor is also likely to run late.

He said he's on his way.

He's on his way.

Mr.

Randich.

Mr.

Rico.

Here.

Dr.

Rouse.

Here.

Ms.

Walker.

Here.

Mr.

Stunich.

Sure.

Chairman Rolfe is absent today.

We do have quorum, so we are good to go.

The minutes from the April 1st meeting were attached for your review.

There are a motion to approve.

Aye.

Motion from second.

Second from Mayor Darcy.

All those in favor.

Or do we have a roll?

Do we have to roll call for you, Jane?

Yeah.

Sure.

Okay.

Mayor Darcy.

Councilman Cardinals.

Ms.

Groomberg?

Aye.

Ms.

Howard?

Aye.

Mr.

O'Hara?

Aye.

Mr.

Randich?

Aye.

Mr.

Rico?

Yes.

Dr.

Rouse?

Yes.

Ms.

Walker.

Aye.

Mr.

Stunage?

Aye.

Okay.

We'll assume that passed.

Yeah, passed.

I got my glasses, everyone.

Sorry.

Are there any citizens to be heard on agenda items?

Once, twice, three times.

All right.

Old business.

There's none on the agenda.

Can move right on to new business, the draft plan for housing strategies.

We're going to assume that's Leslie.

Yeah, so Leslie, and then you would like to introduce Steven.

Yes.

I'll let Stephen introduce himself.

Hello.

I am Stephen Carvelis.

I'm with Converged Architecture, and we are going to be partnering with Leslie on the draft plan.

Very excited to be here and to be working with you all.

Great.

Yeah, so Leslie and her team are here today to lead us through a discussion of our housing policy framework and our housing strategies moving forward with the draft plan.

Cool.

Take it away.

Thank you.

I'm going to stand up for this part, and we're going to work together on these guys.

So you Leslie, can you make sure the mic is that?

Yeah.

Great.

Okay.

We're um we're going to cover a lot of ground today as we move into the creation of the draft plan.

Um we know that housing in neighborhoods is the priority that we've talked about several times throughout this process.

And so as we start to develop that plan, we want to make sure that we're speaking the same language when it comes to housing and neighborhoods.

Um today's roadmap, uh we have two hours together.

We're going to use all of that time to begin to create a shared language around how we think about housing policy.

Uh we'll review the existing conditions and vision and goals.

You all have had a part of these conversations and have had an opportunity over the last several months to support co-authorship of those documents and review of those documents.

We're going to move into uh beginning to define key housing types and terms.

Um we had as a part of your packet today um some national best practices from cities facing similar challenges and who have created innovative solutions to their housing policy that's in your packet that was sent prior to this meeting.

We're going to review those together today.

And then it's your turn.

This process has been collaborative, and so we're excited to work out some of these opportunities with you today.

We're going to break up into small groups.

There's a worksheet, and we're going to do some consensus building around how we want to talk about housing types and terms.

And then we'll wrap up and do next steps.

So what do we want to accomplish today?

Today we want to still think about aspirational outcomes for the city, specifically related to housing and neighborhoods.

This definition or this the beginning of a process to define working to working definitions for terms and typologies is a really important part of that.

All these conversations are going to be grounded in data, and through our conversations together, there have been lots of questions that have bubbled to the top about data sets, about interpretation.

We want you to keep asking those questions.

This is an opportunity to continue to be curious and continue to be to have that sense of inquiry and discovery.

It's also an open-minded conversation.

So we want you to continue to think about what the future of Joliet looks like and how you want to help shape that future.

We're going to ask you what housing types are most needed and for who and how much should they cost.

These are really important issues to begin to think about when we write housing policy.

We have the vision and goals document.

This is moving that one step further.

And lastly, we really want to start building consensus on those preliminary housing terms and typologies.

And don't worry, this is not the last conversation we're going to have.

This is the first focused conversation that we're going to have together.

There's we have quite a bit longer in this process, and so we want to start thinking about how to create that shared language, and today is the first opportunity to do that.

Any questions about what we're going to try to do?

Cool, let's keep going.

So I wanted to refresh your memory about what we covered, the ground that we covered in the existing conditions report.

And this is specifically related to housing and neighborhoods.

The information that we're going to be talking about today.

So this map looks at housing age and household income.

There's some key takeaways that I'd like you to sort of pay attention to or focus in on.

There is a differentiation between the housing market demand throughout the city.

There are some parts of the city, and you've seen this.

You bubble, you brought it to our attention, we've captured that in the vision and goals.

We know that the city cannot be looked at as one monolithic place.

There are there's nuance, there's differentiation, and so we're we want to make sure that our housing policy is reflective of that, and that it's responsive to the different opportunities and challenges throughout the city.

The majority of Joliet's housing stock is aging, and this is across all neighborhoods.

However, the oldest homes are concentrated near the river and in downtown.

We know that there's new construction in certain places in the city, some pockets that are concentrated in new construction are on the far west side of the city.

But it's important to understand that of all the housing units in Joliet, the conclusion can be brought that we need to think about what's next.

How do we breathe life into aging housing units?

What new housing is needed, and where should it be.

So if you squint your eyes, you can see sort of where the concentrations of these two types of housing tenure are located.

Primarily the brown dots or renter-occupied housing are within generally the city center and adjacent legacy neighborhoods.

Most of the yellow dots are concentrated, some of them are mixed in, but the concentration of yellow dots is really towards the west side and far west sides of the city.

So the second thing to look at here are the pink shaded areas.

The light pink is a median household income of 60,000 or less, and you can see where that light pink is concentrated.

The darker the pink, the higher the income.

So the darkest pink color that you're seeing here on the map is median household income above 120,000 dollars.

And those are sort of on the outside.

So there's a it almost is like a concentric circles of income.

As you move further out from the core of the city, the incomes generally go up.

Joliet, as we know, primarily a majority of home ownership, that's important.

As I mentioned, renter households are primarily located in legacy and core neighborhoods closer to the city center.

And so as you think about this, the way to interpret it is how do you envision housing in neighborhoods changing and growing?

How are they going to respond to the changing dynamics that are working within the city?

For aging housing stock, this looks we want to look at opportunities for investment, adaptive reuse, infill.

That's those are the data points that we're seeing here.

It really presents an opportunity to strengthen neighborhoods and to stabilize neighborhoods where that is needed.

For renter and owner housing conditions, we want to look at the assets that the city already has, which is high ownership percentage.

And we want to think about for those that do rent or choose to rent or new populations of residents that are moving into Joliet, how we can provide choice if they choose not to own immediately, and what kind of housing are we providing for renters.

There are some concerns about affordability, maintenance, and overcrowding of housing units.

We're not going to solve this problem today.

The way to interpret this challenge is to think about how we want to accommodate Joliet's population in the best way possible.

What accommodations should be made or improvements should be made in housing and neighborhoods that are being offered on the market to accommodate all different kinds of populations that want to live in Joliet.

Low vacancy and growing cost burdens are contributing to challenges in affordability.

This is not the same economy from a generation past.

We should be thinking about the future as well.

So keeping in mind that aspirational thinking and you know stretch goals are something that we want to talk about with this group.

There's growing demand for certain for certain residents in the city.

This may include seniors, first-time home buyers, and working families.

Generally, trends across the United States are showing smaller household sizes, and there is a very, very large cohort of seniors in the in the country as a whole.

Joliet is not exempt from these dynamics that are working that are working, and also we want to be able to respond to what the changing needs of folks in the community are.

If we want people to live their entire life cycle in the city of Joliet, it means providing housing that is responsive to those changing needs.

So that's something to think about also as we as we define terms and typologies.

So we want to think about that and what that means for the regulatory environment within the city.

Any questions about what you're seeing, what I've shown from the existing conditions?

It should be familiar.

Okay, cool.

Let's keep going.

So now let's look at vision goals.

This was the second deliverable that we submitted to the city for review.

You all worked very, very hard on this document, and we incorporated your feedback into this document.

For I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna review the whole document.

I just want to pull out the relevant parts to our conversation today, which are from the economic development chapter.

I'll remind you of the vision statement.

Joliet will encourage equitable investment in people and places that increases access to housing, jobs, and economic opportunity and celebrates community identity.

In the vision and goals document, there were a few different goals that were housing focused, and then two goals that were quality of life focused.

The first three goals are housing focused, and they look at strengthening legacy neighborhoods, encouraging new residential development, and encouraging infill where appropriate.

The quality of life focused goals look at increased access to jobs and bolstering downtown Joliet's position.

So this is really important to set the stage into where we want to go next.

How do we want to turn these vision goals into policy?

And that's what we're gonna start working on today.

Stephen, are you helping pass this out?

So everybody gets the correct lake too.

Right.

So Stephen passes out the worksheets that we're going to be using to guide our discussion today.

You're going to see two things.

One of your worksheets is housing terms.

And there are a few spaces that are filled in just to get us started in the conversation.

You may or may not agree with these housing terms.

You can cross them out.

You can write in your own, you can put a big question mark on it, or you can circle it.

You do not have to agree with what is on this sheet.

We just wanted to give you something to respond to.

Should housing, should the type of housing be low cost, medium cost, or high cost.

For example, does luxury housing always have to be high cost?

Maybe your vision is to make it lower cost.

So more people have access to low to luxury housing.

And we can talk about how that happens.

We don't have to have every answer today.

It's a visionary and aspirational exercise.

The next column is population.

Who should live there?

Who is this housing for?

We want you to think about when you thought when you think about housing terms, who are you thinking about would be would thrive in that housing or that you want to attract to your community?

And we want you to write that into the box.

And lastly, we'd like you to locate that housing by identifying a context.

Should the housing be in the suburbs?

Should it be in bill?

Should it be urban?

Should it be something I missed?

Should we convert our parks into housing?

You tell us what you where you think that particular type of housing should be.

Okay?

That's the housing terms worksheet.

And we're going to make a story out of this.

So each one of these boxes we will put together into a statement.

For the housing types worksheet, it's similar.

We started you out with a bunch of different housing types.

You can agree with it, you can disagree with it, you can write in your own.

I'm positive there's housing types that we missed.

This again is just to get the conversation started.

Similar to the housing terms worksheet, there's three other boxes that we'd like you to provide some input into.

One of them is cost, and remember this is cost to the owner or to the renter.

And we just used you know one to three dollar signs.

If you have a specific dollar amount, or you think we should be looking at cost a different way, percentage of AMI or household, you know, whatever it is, please feel free to add that input into the spreadsheet.

Similar to the housing terms, there's a box for population.

Who should this who is this type of housing for?

Who do you want to attract to that type of housing?

Who's best suited for the types of housing that we're going to think about today?

We want you to give it a shot.

Who do you think should live there?

And lastly, the context.

Where does that type of housing belong?

Where would you like to see it?

Is it in the neighborhood?

Is it in the suburbs?

Is it, you know, you can write in specific neighborhoods.

You can write in cardinal directions of the city.

Any way you want to define it.

We give you some examples at the top of this worksheet just to get you started.

But remember, this is for you and by you.

This is co-authorship.

You are creating this pathway.

And so the words that you use to describe housing terms and housing types are the right words.

We just gave you a hint, okay.

Before we get started on the worksheet together, we wanted to set the stage with a few best practices.

This is also on the sheet in front of you.

There's several pages that you can uh review if you so choose.

We looked at cities, we looked at national precedent.

This was something that the group asked about in our last meeting together.

Oh, what are other cities doing?

Is there some precedent that we can be looking at?

Who's been successful?

So we picked a variety of cities that are not exactly the same as Joliet, but have certain things in common.

They're facing housing challenges all differently.

Shortages too expensive, there's not enough of one type, we can only attract certain people.

Um another challenge is uh the city size.

So we looked at a few cities that are maybe a little bit bigger than Joliet, but whose challenges and complexity can be related to the city, and so there's something to learn from here.

Um we didn't look at every housing issue, we just wanted to pull out a few different challenges that we were hearing from this group and through our public engagement to make sure that we had some ideas of what other cities were doing to help guide our discussion.

So the first city is New York, and as you can imagine, with several million people living in the city, the housing challenges are huge, right?

Um affordability throughout the entirety of all the boroughs is a challenge.

Affordable affordability throughout the entirety of all the boroughs is a challenge.

And so that is something that we looked at from the city of New York.

We thought, wow, they must come have come up with some innovative solutions.

They have defined specific terminology that is on the work, the memo in front of you and also on the slide.

They specifically defined what affordable housing is.

And in this case, it's anyone who spends over 54% of their income on rent.

It can also be measured as 30% or less AMI based on income eligibility for certain housing typologies.

I think defining what we mean when we say affordable housing is a really important part of this exercise.

They also identify specific terminology for income eligible housing, similar with public housing and similarly with subsidized housing.

These are all different categories that the city of New York has defined.

And this is part of our exercise today.

What are the terms that we really want to use to talk about housing and neighborhoods in Juliet?

So with their housing policy, they have some very, very successful outcomes by creating definitions of what types of housing they really want to focus on.

They have been successful in creating over 30,000 affordable housing units citywide.

This is quite a bit.

Chicago, I think, has developed less than a thousand in the last year of any type of housing unit.

So this is a really really big deal.

They did some changes to the regulatory environment and changes to their approvals environment to make development easier.

They are creating reforms away from AMI.

So they're finding ways to provide housing for a majority of their demographic, a majority of their population without using income restrictions.

That's really important too.

So everyone has an opportunity for to have the housing that they're looking for.

And then they looked at zoning and housing distribution.

So they identified areas in the city where they wanted housing starts to happen and focus development in those areas first.

So they had prioritized where development happened.

And then you can see the numbers at the bottom.

They have some projections about what how many units of housing they want to continue providing.

And this is not the city of New York itself.

The city of New York provided a framework.

This is private development or public-private partnerships to develop these housing units.

It's not necessarily the city subsidizing all housing.

The second city that we'll look at is Los Angeles.

So the city of Los Angeles also, as I mean, it's in the newspapers.

I mean, LA has an affordability issue.

They have all kinds of social stuff that they're trying to deal with.

And so we thought this would be a good example, sort of at the extreme of how is LA actually handling its housing policies.

This is a big hairy problem.

They did similar, a few similar things to New York.

They defined the terminology that they wanted to talk about housing.

It's always important to start with the baseline.

We need a shared language so we all know what we're talking about.

And they focused on a few different types of housing.

Income restricted, rent restricted, and affordable housing.

And affordable is they defined it at a lower AMI than New York did.

They have a whole different bucket for AMIs that are above 120%.

So they're really trying to expand their housing policy to capture folks that are really struggling to afford homes in the city of LA.

And they want to make sure that missing middle, middle class folks, and new residents who are moving into the city also have opportunity to own or rent homes.

And they're also creating an investment fund to help subsidize or underwrite down payment assistance, rental assistance, and more.

And finally, on the entitlements and regulatory side, they're also doing some work internally to the city to make sure that they are developer-friendly.

And for those developers that want to build new housing, renovate housing in their community that they are that they have strong partnerships with this with the city itself.

Nashville, Tennessee is another city that we looked at.

This is a third tier city that experienced an enormous amount of growth, particularly during and after COVID.

A lot of folks moved from first tier cities that were either too expensive or didn't have the quality of life amenities that cities like Nashville have.

And because a lot of us started working from home or had a hybrid environment, it was easy to move to cities that were more affordable.

In the city of Nashville, they had uh they looked at, because of this explosive growth, it forced them to look at their uh look at their community and better understand how they could continue to provide housing support for folks that are there.

They created a lot of different avenues to being able to do that, and not all of them were focused on subsidy, and not all of them were focused on low income.

This is again the city's attempt to provide housing for a majority of the folks who wanted to live there.

The outcomes are really important.

The city started buying land to make sure that their housing policy could be implemented.

This is a big, big investment, but it also meant that there was a greater chance that vacant lots could be built on, and because the city was now marketing them and providing both regulatory support as well as uh entitlement and approvals review process support.

Um they did increase development of workforce housing units, and they define workforce housing is moderate income.

So this is AMI 60 to 120%.

In Cook and Will County, the uh average AMI for the county is around 80,000, so you can think of what you know 120%, it's like a little over 100,000 and 60%.

No, what's it's too early for math.

Um, but you get it.

They reduce the permit processing time for diverse housing types multi-generational housing, senior housing, um, young adults, folks that didn't have a ton of credit, didn't have grade credit.

So they were trying to reduce the pair the barriers for people moving into the community, and lastly, they really focus on a mix of owner and renter housing so that there was opportunities as lifestyle changes happen to do to be able to take advantage of both.

Um, Grand Rapids, we looked at similar Grand Rapids is a very, very diverse populate uh diverse community with a growing population, immigrant population, and so different types of housing was really important for Grand Rapids to begin to develop, and they started looking at ways that they could do this, that the city could create a regulatory and incentivize a regulatory environment and incentivize uh different types of housing to be built.

Um, they've done a pretty great job at it.

These programs are relatively new within the last 10 years.

So in Grand Rapids, we're waiting to see sort of what happens from this program.

But you can see from the outcomes that they were able to develop thousands of housing units based on changes to the regulatory entitlements and approvals process efficiency.

And lastly, uh Charlotte Illinois, uh Charlotte, North Carolina, different region, a little bit bigger population than Joliet, but similar complexity of you know what do we do with our with our population that is moving into the cities, they're growing, they have a lot of economic drivers, including education and industry, and they're looking at how to create more diverse uh housing units to accommodate the population that is moving into Charlotte.

They are thinking towards the future, they are forward thinking, and they're aspirational in their thinking around housing specifically.

Um they really focus on protection as in addition to creation of housing units, um, and they also want people to stay.

And so their attraction and retention strategy for residents is very, very strong and built into their housing policy.

So, what what do we have to learn from these cities?

Um, it's important to understand that each one of these cities have clearly defined outcomes that can be measured and evaluated.

When we're writing this comprehensive plan, we want to be able to look back on it in two, three, five, ten years and say we did that and not only check the box, but also be able to quantify the impact that it had on the quality of life in the city of Joliet.

Each one of these cities have consistent terms and types, and they're defined.

It's completely subjective.

So we get to do that for the city of Joliet.

We don't have to use what you've seen, and we don't have to use somebody else's definition unless it's helpful and unless we want to.

There's a lot of incentives and subsidies.

Housing policy can be very, very creative.

Um, and so we're we're looking at you to be those creators of thinking about what's the right fit for Joliet.

And so we're we're looking at you to be those creators of thinking about what's the right fit for Joliet.

And these policies are all tailored.

They're place-based.

They're not taken from somewhere else.

There's no one size fit-all.

This is something that is right for Joliet for now, and thinking about the future.

And lastly, you know, housing policy doesn't exist in a box.

It's not like we're just thinking about one house.

We're thinking about how housing can support all the other things that we want to do in the city.

We want to grow the population.

We want to celebrate cultural diversity.

We want to attract a workforce.

We want people to have educational opportunities.

We want our youth to be able to, you know, stay in Juliet and contribute to the city.

So this is, you know, housing is an important part of that ecosystem that we're trying to create as a part of this comprehensive plan.

Okay, now it's your turn.

Um we're gonna do three groups of four.

I think there's gonna be an odd, there's gonna be an odd group.

Um, perfect.

Um and Steve and can you help facilitate worksheet?

Sure.

Okay.

Oh we would like you to first just start with a housing terms worksheet.

That's the one that we're gonna work on first.

Um we're gonna take about 15 minutes to work together.

The first part of that 15 minutes should be you thinking about your worksheet, filling it in.

The last part of the 15 minutes is an all time, I'll let you know when we're gonna switch.

Um, is sharing out with your group, and then each group is gonna report out their top three terms.

That's all we're looking for today.

Um these are terms that you want to prioritize that we create terms for.

First, we're gonna count off by four.

So, Doug, your one number one.

Two, three, four, one, two, three, four.

One, two, three, four.

Okay.

Um, please move into your groups.

Well, where's the thing?

I think you could just like shift or you know, maybe move the chairs.

I think we need to switch places around the table.

So one, two, three, four, and then the corners and graph.

What is the day you were doing in school?

Okay, so this is necessary.

Like, I should want to build a unit.

Okay.

So like another word is like units.

Right.

Like the um, yes, exactly.

Right.

So I'm sitting in your seat.

So, he's not four.

So he's out of here.

Okay, it would probably be.

You take this middle seat because I got all my stuff here anyway.

So, I agree on my own.

Oh, right.

And then when a lane arrives, she can just join us.

Okay.

Um, starting with housing two.

I think we're starting in this one.

Yeah.

Housing charge.

So affordable subjury workforce market rates attainable.

Okay.

So we want two people in four.

Government terms work.

Do you want to pick up the information to fill out the housing terms?

Yeah, the mayor.

That's a good one for you.

Thank you.

I appreciate the answer.

Starting with the AMI is helpful.

They say that you have spending any more than 30 subjects.

How is this?

And then we'll spend five minutes reporting to the entire year.

So if you want to spend the first couple minutes just thinking about your awareness, max income.

And then once you fill those, then it's amongst yourselves.

Share what you're coming up with.

And that's the 30% or one right to the criteria.

So we're just doing terms right now.

Sure.

I'll be back around for you.

Okay.

So when we're looking to affordable, I go right to the end of the space.

yourself share what you're coming from one yeah so and we're just doing terms right now county or why don't short spread a house around is built in virtual very phone affordable are we supposed to be able to afford it I go range value start however you want to define it's not to report on anything just say first one and last three in the middle right and then we'll ask you what you need and then you can say you know we're fees right and then that varies because of course household size right as they said you know underpopulation like if you say thirty percent or family of four okay that is got it realistic deer fuel affordable is it's anonymous or do we like that it's broken out of the running fifteen minutes on the I think affordable as a euphemism for affordable terms your top group agrees on and you're gonna report that for one so I would take two minutes now to just think through you're only doing housing terms right now affordable type two marketing getting affordable raise our hands don't we need to don't lose them though.

Okay that's definitely what's the influence definition that's a start that is like inside of the bigger lot or say someone has a large lot and they decide to sell half of it what do you put there?

Do you filling in listen it's it's not it's not that intuitive because you know when you're talking about maybe to a large seniors inside the neighborhood you know what I mean that's the kind of that's exactly I don't know if there's a better word fill in in the blanks.

Just so everyone understands a great idea.

Join us in record of housing.

So if you want to look at your housing term sheet we're gonna go through this using the area in comfortable to determine affordability the what government does to determine when they're you know if you want to just determine what's affordable in an area I just feel like we're just kind of working around based off and then spend the last part of the 15 minutes focuses on our area because obviously the AMI we're gonna cover it from that you're gonna report out to everyone we're looking at top three affordable luxury housing housing attainable and then we're trying to figure out like what does that mean for the cost of the different types of populations and if that makes sense any questions pick for terms on terms for housing absolute smart ass I'm gonna put the work in the workforce house it's funny that that's the center square of the three terms I would think we should use well we haven't honestly I I feel like that the term is it creates two reaction in people that even if you're not talking about like government definition subsidized or type anything like that as soon as you say affordable people freak out.

But if you say workforce housing things you know we should think more attainable housing workforce market rate you're saying affordable I think that's especially yes I think market rate is good too because it's kind of a it's kind of a neutral term and that can encompass everything from it does it's you know what is market demanding and that will also encompass your affordable and your luxury housing luxury housing these are affordable and then of course attainable trigger what could be different for everybody just want to write all of the affordable for everybody already going to turn all certain people off to the country.

You can just know that I was right there.

Yes.

Affordable like you said, I was going to turn people to the same thing.

But I will say this though.

Let me just push back on that a little.

Devil's advocate.

I hate devil's advocates off.

But if we are able to afford, like we're able to define in this document what affordable housing is downtown.

Both from the AMI so that people understand that just means.

So I mean basically it's a marketing thing.

And definitely please capture those away with affordable and luxury.

And also the cost to there shouldn't be a high-risk on the west side of the media.

Please include that level of nuance.

So we just determine the company and then you're finding the terms.

We decided that affordable and luxury would probably not be digestive digestible to get such a knee-jerk reaction on what either.

And then after you just do reminder after you fill in the world.

So we're going to focus on the workforce market rate sustainable.

I mean, I think workforce to the group.

Okay.

Can and should probably be lower to the um, right?

So one to two market rate could be any of those.

Yeah, that's right.

And attainable, same thing.

I mean, what I can attain is different than what you can attain in this are there housing and choices available.

So just a reminder at your good thing.

Um we're gonna report out.

Just one person needs to report out three turns.

I think the expiration is seniors.

I mean, not necessarily, but it should be frequently jobs, right?

So whether you're professional or you're the middle population.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

That's who we would want to use.

Right, but market rate.

Section A is right.

Non-surate all of the above.

And that is ideal.

That it's not like there's going to be downsizing, subsidiary.

I would say that urban would probably have downsizing maybe.

So walkability to amenities.

Sometimes that is every new apartment complexes, but it could be downers.

Yeah.

And you know, because the county has you know parks right there, access to amenities, you could get shopping right there, train right there, multi-use buildings, yes, so you have a mix of reservation.

Like you want to create a couple of things.

So I think Naperville, I think, more so from the leftmost column.

They do, yes, but it's obviously.

No, no, you can't do it.

We're not a self-down.

And it also does not have less in the downtown.

It's really mostly just commercial.

So we're gonna be a bit more residential.

Honestly, I think.

But they're trying to right that down there's like markets, but if that's about market rates, that's why it is.

I think we're talking about that downtown.

So there were urban downtown.

But it doesn't necessarily have a downtown like neighborhood.

So we don't really have a downtown, but they probably have the access to weekend park.

It's urban, but it's not downtown.

So I also want to see a sense of the place.

Right.

Everything else kind of commercial than it traditionally.

You feel like your own city or building some majority.

So workforce housing, I think probably I mean, they probably all get above.

And I think that like the info, especially when you look at vacant lots or you know, large lots that could be subdivided.

Like your duplexes, triplexes, small scale multifamily.

That would be kind of the ideal.

Yeah, it takes four years.

I mean, I feel like workforce would be a good idea.

Lux quite a few houses, mason Taylor.

These are all the above.

Suburban house and then a smattering of who would live in timber line.

We don't have a lot of like three hundred beholder, right?

Your half million dollars.

So what are we what do we got on the affordable?

Which is terrible.

I know like I know someone's thinking about workforce.

When they're higher size, those seem high to me because the last time I was maintenance with a $10 run.

We have to put it square back in the you know, regular house, you know.

You realize how sophisticated range doesn't have everyone knows what it means.

The amendment 440 amendments are lands.

So what about just the admission?

Yeah, casual.

But then you could also think about record and owner.

I think workforce is that dog.

I couldn't go to the same residence, then kids kid jobs, and you're not gonna be able to do that.

No, it's true.

Like school, graduate college starter and the things about how senior year.

There's a business.

And so they're not gonna come if you're gonna be able to do that.

I have seniors who want to subsidize houses.

I have college housing.

I think that's good for the community that we're gonna do.

So I just kind of get all like one right time.

I can ask two seniors just next to each other that went to the same high school, they both grew up in Jovian.

I think I'm in the making also.

This population can be every year, they have to write in everyone.

It doesn't have to be one of the four.

So I wrote this as all years ago, people started trying to run out of the same thing.

But I do think that one of the reasons that we uh put it ourselves into a corner, you know, like if champagne is that need to be without a sporting now.

I just the reality does have to be.

You know, all of these things when it's like the reality.

I think that's true for every age group.

You know, you know what I'm trying to do is you know, family members like is that you assume three dollars out of the year.

Right, that's the expensive restaurant.

It could be a family house.

I want to advocate for much.

They are both working.

So you just wanted us to I mean, does this kind of feel like what you're looking for?

Okay, using this who'd be able to really use little casino, but I was like, Oh, I raise them to be good roommates.

You have about five more minutes, so if you haven't started thinking about what your top three matters are, I'm gonna do it.

It is such a hangout.

Yeah, five more minutes if you're not gonna do it.

Exactly.

What were your topics?

Well, and I think it's duplexed towns.

Well, and I age duplex towns.

Oh, for sure.

Very large.

Yeah, absolutely safety risk to that.

Um, we'll think about amenity or sheriff ability.

So where do they go?

Okay, no, I don't mind those.

I just it it kind of creates an interesting conversation.

And Dr.

Ross's point, like boomer.

That's just it.

Yeah, what I'm doing with that.

Yeah, we're today is not a part of the property.

Yeah, this would be like probably kids are high as we're going to just address.

So when we look at our income, that's more detailed.

So it's on the same thing.

What is the awful?

I'm just hoping facilitating.

I really think.

Well, yes.

Yeah, but I also don't like it.

So this helps you trusted more.

I go there as a 10 grand directly when I have her.

Six years away.

Which one I live in a 55%.

So my husband is.

So I was just going to do it.

But I'm not sure.

I believe that's true.

I think the authority of Joyce.

Then they were high.

So I added permanent houses.

How did you get in here?

And then I would start it like you're just terminating stalking.

You gotta bring it up.

Listen, I have a really good search.

I'm 72.

No, I um that's why I like it.

But I love it.

But it's the house in channel.

Speaks more to school when you can get it versus the case.

Okay, right.

So you're like that.

So you would say more.

And I have a friend that lives in one of the town clubs.

So then at least she backs up to like that as well.

She doesn't look at anything.

Yeah, there's a rise.

I looked at one of the people.

And I still scrambling.

I'm badly so we already voted.

I wouldn't have to do that.

And don't you think that's a good idea?

Jolia is by far family.

Like the parents avoid special.

So much.

I had a couple of drinks.

I can only write my seniors.

I like to do that.

I feel like a demographic dress for the season.

Entry level and a prime.

And they rent our own.

That's actually that's an interesting place.

Are we about ready to report out?

Yeah, population.

Very true, yeah.

So I think about housing work.

Young adults.

And stars called some partner.

Some don't have to be a good idea.

Yeah, they have to be approved.

Someone just reached their siding in the middle of the state.

I think for the COVID, which was like the first and everyone gold.

And it looks fantastic.

I'm like everyone else is gonna start getting it.

Technically, that's a market rate.

Downtown, you know, we've got a train here.

So he's there, people get that zoo full account.

Because that's kind of regular.

It's like a single family.

And he's there.

His wife is now to avoid the term.

Four valleys would use that one.

No, three valleys right now.

I think it's a good idea.

Yeah.

So we think all into these bucket factors.

Right.

We think of all of these umbrellas can be placed on the case.

Okay.

So I'm thinking almost a few.

Sue is the sister.

Oh, okay.

And Lou is the brother.

So we had a different way to do it.

I will report.

I think we ran into you.

And for instance, when I was with the city.

They're not busy, probably they're not going to be able to do that.

They're working too much.

They might be.

So in the context of suburban, I think that's the safe term.

But we're doing urban luxury.

But you're not going to be able to do that.

So what was it again?

Yeah, the age job.

I actually like market rate over working.

It's a similar house in this past 20 years.

That's going to speak for our so I think we're going to awesome.

I don't see that.

I think we're ready to report out.

Does anybody else everybody have their three?

I love that very much.

Oh, that's right, they're different, aren't they?

Yeah.

Oh, I'm not saying that.

Yeah.

Okay, we're gonna go ahead and do our report out here for a few minutes.

I think we'll start with Are you guys ready?

Should I go to the different things?

We're good.

Okay.

So we'll go to group this first group in this corner because I forgot who's in the number two.

One goes first.

Okay, one.

Number one.

Caesar for mayor.

Group one goes through watch the political people just.

You like that, right?

So uh assuming that you know this is designed to sort of inform the language in the plan to some extent.

And with the knowledge that all of these can apply to all of the housing types to a large extent.

Um we selected um attainable, right?

Because I think let's be honest, uh to some extent that's a euphemism for affordable, but um it it also has sort of a wider range of housing stock that that fits that terminology.

Um we created a new um combined term, and that's cheating, but we don't care.

Um market rate workforce.

We kind of combine those two because they do arc toward the same thing, right?

I think a lot of us in housing use market rate to define a type of multifamily development, but that doesn't necessarily need to be that.

It it can fit um a a broad range of unsubsidized housing that is inclusive of both multifamily and what we call regular houses.

We were we were lamenting the regular house that was missing, right?

Um just you know, 2200 square foot single family home that gets built all over town, right?

Um then the third one is luxury.

And we were discussing the reality that luxury means different things to different people, and you know, Dr.

Rouse called out it's really about square footage, right?

If you build a multifamily luxury project with amenities downtown that you know has you know, an 800 square foot multi-family property can absolutely be luxury if it has the right amenities, right locations, and right fit.

Um and it can also be a five thousand square foot house somewhere in town, right?

And so um I think it's really important to be or a town home for downsizing that's really nice, right?

Um if we have some of those in town, and so I I think that's an important thing to include in this as well.

Um did you have locations identified for any of those three terms?

Um yes.

Um I'd just go back the other direction, like luxury again, downtown, but uh using this terminology, also suburban I think is a a good fit for that.

Um market rate workforce is literally everywhere.

Like I I wrote down all four things that you had.

Um and attainable similarly, it's kind of literally everywhere, right?

Um good for infill, good for downtown, urban, suburban, all the above.

Great.

So you said um for um market rate, no luxury, you said suburban and downtown.

Correct.

Yeah.

Great, thank you.

Okay, now group two.

Are you changing your work?

Yeah, we think luxury and not.

I'm just leaving lots of notes.

So we need lots of notes.

I think we were looking at the the three terms that I I uh I agree to us all to was uh workforce, market rate and attainable.

Um I feel that attainable is something that we should be focused on, you know, and and market rate that might I would cover today is luxury because you know, when you look at some of the prices of houses today, anything in the market rate range is semi-luxier, but I understand where you talk about luxury can mean a lot of different things, but looking at our current situation today, market rate is is pretty much pretty high right now, so I suppose that and then workforce um you know being the next one is where we have to get housing for the current workforce that we have in Joliet, right?

Where it can mean a lot of things, but we've got to look at what workforce means in Joliet.

Um I would say the population, I wouldn't jump from the cause one population that you know you got workforce, I would say attains the workforce and young adults, right?

But then we also talked about seniors because there's still a lot of seniors that are in the current workforce, right?

Um and then I look at market rate currently today.

If I looked at it, I would say it's multi-generational and seniors that can afford market rate, right?

Because either you're coming in from you inherited a house and you're sold and now you're buying another one, so it's multi-generational, or you're a senior in a good position, you can afford the market rate.

Um otherwise, I don't know if you can afford market rate today.

Um and I feel like that's the problem that we're having everywhere.

Um and then attainable would be we we need to have more attainable housing for our workforce or a seniors and our young adults, because our young adults that are coming out of school, newly married or whatnot, just can't find anything attainable or slash affordable, right?

Um so in that context of where that stuff would go, yeah.

I think attainable housing, you know, looking at our downtown and and and literally everywhere, right?

It would be throughout the city of Juliana uh would be a good spot for that.

Um market rate, I think all three realistically, and you know, we thought it's it is all over Joel.

Yeah, it's just gonna have to be strategic of how and where you do it.

Okay.

Thank you.

All right, our third group.

Is that we're four, right?

Yep, three.

We we combine.

They combine.

We're wearing two weather side.

There's just three groups now.

Okay.

Shall I?

Yes, please.

So due to the scrapping that has been done over the term affordable, we've decided to swap that out with attainable because attainable really is subjective, it encompasses all of these different terms.

Um and attainable is subjective.

So it would really apply to all the costs, all the populations and all the contexts.

With housing diversity at every price point, we can accommodate everyone's needs.

So attainable.

Workforce, uh, we selected that one too.

Um, and we are looking at the costs as low to medium.

Um the population, of course, would include workforce multi-generational, because many families are living together.

Um, and of course, young adults, and we believe that the context could be all of the above, uh, whether it's urban, downtown, suburban, or in fill housing.

With market rate, that's obviously it's a kind of a general term that doesn't create, you know, knee-jerk reactions, and that can encompass all of the different cost levels because again, that's attainable housing.

What kind of housing are you hoping to attain and what can you afford?

So that includes all of the above as well.

So really workforce market rate and attainable housing are the three terms that we feel would probably best encompass the needs.

Um that's that's the direction we thought we'd go.

But we do, I like your uh workforce market rate market rate work.

Market rate workforce.

It is trademarked.

You will get your royalties.

You will get your royalties.

So that thank you all for just for participating in this.

I just want to reiterate a couple things or repeat back to you what I'm hearing you say.

Everybody said attainable housing.

That was a term that every group agreed on.

And as I was walking around and listening to the conversation, you're all saying very similar things about who it's for, where it should be, how much it should cost.

Workforce.

Everyone said workforce.

So it's with the recognition that there are there is a large workforce in Joliet that needs housing, and all of you recognize this particular housing need for this population.

Um the market rate piece, all of you said that, except for group one who wanted to be special and call it market rate workforce.

I regret nothing.

But that is also important.

So all of you are saying that you believe there needs to be housing diversity at a variety of price points for everyone in Joliet.

And so these three terms are really important to creating housing policy with your for us to understand your perspective, who who you're talking about, where you're talking about housing happening.

And there's a lot of consensus here.

So thank you for going through that exercise.

Are there any last before we move on to types?

Are there any last comments that anyone would like to share as you're with your um going through this exercise or your experience?

Can you capture it?

I think I want to make a comment about what group one said about the downtown.

I think we really have to keep a focus on the halo down here.

You know, we're one of two cities that has the best transportation in the state of Illinois, and I think that has to stay strong in our mind.

I you know, I I think, like Doug said, there are people living in the two Rialto building, lawyers that retired and love living down here.

Like Beth Bailey loved living down here for the eight months she was here.

We kind of have to keep a focus on that.

And um, how do we get that moving forward?

I I really think that that has to stay in our focus as well as everything else.

But to me, that's where we can grow our population and create a city center of people living.

Thank you, Mayor.

Awesome.

All right, let's go on to the second part of this.

We're gonna look at housing types.

Um, I saw some of you taking notes on housing types during the terms exercise.

It's fantastic.

Um there were also a couple questions about this.

ADU is accessory dwelling units.

So think of in-law unit, think of Coach House, think of not your primary residence, but one that is on your same lot but is not primary.

That's an accessory dwelling unit.

Um of these types can be combined.

You can have a mixed-use multi-family.

We recognize that these housing types do not necessarily live individually, that you can combine some of these.

You can have senior housing that also is multi-family.

Um, please make sure that you add notes if you believe this to be true, or this is the type of housing that you think should be developed in the city.

Similar to the previous worksheet, uh, we're asking you for cost to the owner or renter, we're asking you for the population, who you think should live there, who would you like to live there, and then we're asking you for a context that these housing typologies will be located in.

Um, a couple other ideas that are not on the sheet.

Housing can also be located in commercial corridors.

It can be located in specific neighborhoods.

Um, it can be located in areas that currently don't have a lot of residential now as the city grows.

So be thinking about you know where ideally these typologies should and could go, and you can think out of the box.

If there are additional typologies that are not identified on this worksheet, or you think there are typologies that should be combined, please include those in your notes.

And if we're missing anything else, similar to the housing terms worksheet, feel free to create your own housing typologies or cost structure, or populations that are not on the sheet that we really want to make sure and accommodate through this exercise.

So I'm going to set the timer for 20 minutes.

Similar to the previous exercise, please spend the first couple minutes thinking on your own, figuring out which typologies are important to you and filling out your own worksheet.

And then we'll work together for about 12 or 15 minutes, and then similar to the other worksheet, we will report out by group your top three housing typologies.

Any questions about this worksheet?

Okay.

That's multifamily.

And the reason it's multi-family is it could be triplex.

That's true.

So I would say I would look at multifamily as larger than like six units.

Or could it just be multifaceted?

It's a general term, but because we have duplexes, triplexes, or mixed use.

So that usually infers like uh screw.

That would be like commercial on the bottom.

Right.

And residential on the top.

Right.

Yeah.

So what I'm doing is anything more than I would look at that.

I look at that as like larger scale, like six or more, probably.

It's have senses defined.

Two three four.

A high rise would be ideal for a town area.

Right?

Like City of Juliet would really benefit from some, you know, more vertical.

It's a triplex.

That's like a it's like a like a duplex but with three.

So like you know, it's a good thing.

What I like about duplexes and triplexes is to me, those are really good for like development.

Where you have different things, that's where you can kind of judge density.

Okay.

You know, where housing people know giant multi-family units.

Um, I feel like in a community like Joliet, large scale multi-family.

You kind of have to be really strategic about where you put it because that's that's when the green villagers don't want to freak out and saying, oh, we don't want that because where housing people typically doesn't have rights outcomes.

But it's not a high-rise type situation where you want to create a more urban environment, it's ideal.

So when I look at multifamily, I would definitely take more like open down.

So would you provide more cars?

Yeah, absolutely.

And so I mean, I guess should we steal their idea and go to the correct steel?

I'm okay with that to that.

But like in this context, are we nearing some difference?

Yeah, it's incentivize.

It is, it is hard.

I don't know if I'm seeing people guys around the area.

I would do a steel property.

Always I would multiply.

How do you get people incentivizing?

You said it's just a good idea.

Yeah, because again, multifamily, I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean large scale in this context, right?

So if you want to actually house online if you have an idea of like mids or whatever that's a good idea.

I would because that is still multi-family.

Yes, of course.

I like splitting the hair, so we know what we're talking about.

Just multifamily also mean like building a new subdivision with single family homes.

No, no, it's not it is a connected.

So you're you're not including single family.

Um not in multi-family.

Single family is just your butt like in your channel.

Yeah, we have to really have to.

We can't take it away from that.

So multi-family makes you the reason why I say the multi-family that makes use kind of like some kind of incentive.

Some kind of incentive.

Would you see that's the trend?

But it doesn't work in every market.

Like this is where you need your walkability in your density in order to make those commercial units work.

Nine units they figure they can only get 34 now.

So you can't just put a mixed use of out in the, you know, and out of the outskirts somewhere that's connected.

That's why the thing is.

We see them kind of flop sometimes when there's not enough food traveling.

So that's what I would add in.

those commercial six waves make it work nine units they figure they can only get thirty four now the access if they can get the deal worked out in the you know in the outskirts somewhere that's connected we see them kind of flop sometimes when there's not enough food million six away now they're a few short on the unit's edge are going to be business so that's what I would add in the subsidy that makes it combined compliance urban and down for sure that's why I mean we lost like senior housing development for senior revenue of that on their church property because you're like we have a lot of seniors who can't find housing or adaptive and specifically cost of micro right there on the formation but I'm wrong if you're reinforced component in senior housing one of the multiple costs for sale right and I sit there.

Whereas in the building is built in a renovated Kelly school there it's a different circle around the downtown one mile the only reason that I would send it program eliminate single senior housing in this list is because it could be single family like Grand Haven is a single family property development right it could be multifamily single family slash seniors if we're going to combine multifamily and mixed seniors could be the population for single family single family change a lot of senior houses.

Single family stays multifamily duplex townhouse triple so we can just incorporate these younger guys being not mixed use is also a little bit more than single families down on the right price point so we say that both commercial in the unit and considered less use stuff okay so I think you have to have like definition for us to be commercial and residential.

But to your point it doesn't necessarily need to be large scale either and class downtown I always thought it would be so great to be senior and in all honesty I'm sure that there are limitations to that okay so we have single family multifamily because it's all of these other single family two can do we're going to combine that with mixed use and just keep senior houses as town again development diversity of typology and price last and triple housing that is accessible to everyone try to school properties seniors unable to afford it's it's not a purpose are we going to throw an adapter all of this except we're specifying people definitely churches.

I'm gonna I mean like it needs to be adapter it does to the largest single family home builder just present this thing just keep saying adaptive reviews single family population in a huge seniors suburban pre-financial anywhere but I do think that specifically focusing on the suburban the use of the green field development is probably the way to go with single family to develop that thing twenty percent of all that there's like especially valued not specifically downtown but like think about the when when you think about it around there's still downtown where it's like that first trickling single campus and you got your big Victorian

But I do think that specifically focusing on the suburban use of the greenfield development is probably the way to go with single family.

Not specifically downtown, but like think about when when you think about still downtown where it's like that first trickling single family.

It's just an info.

It is, but if it's done right now, we have a ton of things.

It's just a good thing.

I'm not saying urban.

I think urban and downtown is a good thing.

When you drive down radio more house, you go to the city.

If we're talking about how to have a lot of people, but they were going to do it.

But we were not making the specific middle.

But I agree with senior housing.

All of the above, I think all of these typologies would be available.

But if you can afford a nice single, like Job was saying it's a regular house, you should be able to do more weather needs to work.

Right.

So I think all of you cost for all of these.

What is a triple reuse is like a not necessarily a typology.

That was a it's more of like a method of homes behind.

So it's a duplex two unit.

Yeah, those were existing.

They've been here for the past twenty years.

I think they have to have four people.

When I was looking for a house, I was like, they had to open it up because most of it was located.

Yeah, we go off by a hard time.

So we're going to be able to do that.

What about the old building that used to be old Catholic house?

So you're saying when was that too much?

I think like your idea because that was converted.

That was a conversion.

Specifically for senior house.

So in the past ten years, it's owned by University of St.

Because it's easy for the developers to do it.

That's easy.

That's they don't want to have those difficulties.

Or if you can incentivize neighborhoods, and that's less of a cost burden to sit there.

So we've been focusing on marketing.

And on your roadways, and you already have traveling costs.

Or you want to travel down through the entire money and markets and like that opportunity.

Yeah, this is a thing like that.

If you did mix it, that's not your system, right?

Yeah, I agree completely.

But it's done right now.

Senior house.

Again, I kind of think to some degree.

Suburban info if we're talking definitely info.

But suburban with houses, a duplex here or there's a senior house.

Single family info.

That's the problem is it was such a west.

Let me ask you layered work doesn't have to be an age for the city.

Does it have to be an age for sort of just for C word control?

Great for developing seniors.

I think multi-family times anything from like I have a share building.

Right, how do you think that's a good idea?

Technically that we were having with the supportive housing.

They want to make sure that those kids that are in their buildings.

So we just came to the portal house.

This is got the single family.

I think support in our main multi-flight health is seen as kind of hard with this.

Because I'm seeing a lot of parts.

Or at least you can feel it.

I would say limits where there's a senior in time.

I have single who can more to be an owner.

Owner occupied rental space.

Right.

Yeah, we're splitting hairs here.

And I like it.

And that because again, but what I want to say though is that there are some seniors who don't want to be children.

Those are very specific terms.

Yeah.

Multifamilies on the more general compasses.

Well, because it could be financially supportive, but you can also do it.

It could be social service finding special needs or drug addiction, or assisted living.

Like some singers need to be in a place where I think supportive in softenes at all, especially when you talk about it.

I guess hope supportedness.

I think you're you're defining it.

That's why it doesn't mean it's tax size.

That's the definition of the supportive housing.

Because if I if I'm a senior and I'm cutting five or two houses in a singularity, you can be those to like just this supportive house.

It's almost just more complicated.

Yeah, there's specific dollars services out of the supportive services.

So what's it will have to be kind of high.

It's different than assisted living.

Cooper's house.

Oh, that's plain value.

Yeah, like a character that is plain field.

Okay.

And then touch between Julius.

Yeah, because the permit came through here.

I'm pretty sure the Cooper's house developed.

So there's a lot of people.

Maybe there's the city.

And so we're in the city.

The different towers, there's children and city guys.

It's not a good thing.

That's when I got three points.

Seven or eight.

You're good.

You have your top three.

I'm not sure we do.

I'm just glad that we're going to have to do that.

I really hope that a housing is a little bit more.

We thought we were going to do this.

I'll give you one of the things that we're going to do.

No, it is not developers.

So they're going to strip back.

Going back to adaptive reuse for the moment.

That was the spark they needed to be.

These are multi.

I mean renters and buyers.

Oh come on, girl.

I think that's a good thing.

It does make you like this.

Ready to report out on the houses types.

The decision makers are the ones that are one more minute.

I would say both sides.

We're good.

You guys are good.

This group.

We're done.

We're done.

Go for it, Doug.

Okay.

Go for it.

Um, go get a tiger third.

Who wants to go first this time?

You can randomize it.

Go ahead.

Cool.

All right, we're going first.

Top three types.

Um.

So we cheated and added a fourth.

So we had single family, duplex townhouse, multifamily, and mixed use.

One of the things that we really discussed was that we shouldn't be doing any more greenfield housing in Joliet.

It should be focused on infield development.

Where utility appropriate, we should put more density on the on those lots.

On existing lots.

On existing lots.

But we should also focus on infill around the mall area.

And so we need to be prepared for that.

What?

Shocking, right?

I know we're all stunned.

But the uh mixed use in that area would make sense because somehow there are stores in that mall that have held on all this time and will need somewhere to go.

So mixed use development would make sense there.

Um and then that the city should consider uh incentivizing uh residential development, like it does uh industrial commercial development, and look at what the positive outcomes financially from uh uh a redevelopment are so that they can you know set an appropriate incentive to to bring those uh developments to fruition.

Great.

Thank you.

I know you're stunned.

Uh so for us, we uh kind of combine things into three categories, just because as we're talking about housing types, I think it's easy to see how some of these fit into everything else, and that as we're making recommendations and thinking big picture about the plan, we want to make sure that it's large scale recommendations that you're able to take and individually customize where it makes sense.

So with that in mind, as well as a context of theories of infill development and adaptive reuse.

Um we we talked a lot about single family um with that covering all costs, um, covering all populations.

Um context for that again, suburban greenfield, um, and then uh urban if it's uh a good fit and a good idea, right?

When you think about your key downtowns or you picture an ideal city, um you have your density downtown, and as you start going out, you have that first ring of you know your single family home.

So talking about the value that that plays.

Um we talked a lot about multifamily and what that really means to all of us.

So we kind of land on multifamily is mixed use.

It is a triplex, it's a duplex and townhouse, it can include an ADU.

Costs for that again, all population types, all um, our context for that really is urban and downtown, uh, as well as potential infill and adaptive reuse, but also talking about some of our key corridors and key opportunity sites.

So we talked about them all.

We talked about um I specifically brought up, you know, I think about Route 30.

I think about some of the large-scale parking lots that exist on Route 30 and the opportunities that exist there for potential multifamily and mixed use.

Um, and then we also talked about senior housing.

Um I think senior housing kind of falls into all of these as well, right?

It's all costs, it's uh our senior populations and context is everything because seniors they're us.

We will be seniors or we are seniors and we want to live everywhere, and we talked about the value of designated senior living spaces, but also you know, seniors that want to live in multifamily or single family, and I think that fully encompasses everything.

So great, thank you.

Yeah, so lots of overlap with some of these conversations here, and I will start by saying we we had a kind of similar collapsing of the categories, right?

Multifamily does encompass mixed use, um, you know, however, you want to define attached single family versus multi for you know large separate units within a given building, but ultimately um identified, you know, single multi and senior, but within each of those, there is a broad spectrum of things.

I will note that the vice chair held off on single family because it was like, well, y'all are gonna do it anyway, we don't need to identify it.

Um I I do want to point something out on just the rejection of greenfield single family.

Um I I think that there is still opportunity for that.

And I just want to give a little bit of context.

A lot of you have heard me say this before, but and Will County is the number one single family home builder in Illinois.

Right.

We build the last two years we build roughly 20% of all the single family housing in Illinois.

We're about five and a half percent of the population, just to put that into context.

Um that said, if you go back in time 20 years, mid-90s to mid-2000s, as a county, we were building roughly 8500 homes a year.

We were number one then too, but at 8500 homes a year.

We've been building roughly 1,500 since then.

Okay, and in these last few years while leading the state.

And so you know, we can make this argument that like we've built a lot of single family, we've built a lot of green fields.

Fair.

It's expensive, you know, it's expensive on infrastructure, I get that.

Um, but I do think all of the above still matters, and and I wouldn't move to just ban that outright.

And it's my take, not the groups, but yeah.

Um beyond that, I do want to call out um, you know, we we had some good discussion here with respect to sort of addendums to these um in terms of like supportive housing, whether that is around seniors, whether that's around multi-generational um housing or specific needs, like that that is an important thing that needs to be considered as well.

Um also multifamily, not just renters, owners, um you know, condo opportunities, uh whatever that ultimately looks like.

So I don't know if there's anything else in this.

We covered a lot of ground on this one.

Great.

Um connections here.

Multifamily and mixed use seem to have come up in every group.

Um I heard specific areas where housing should be developed, east side, mall area, route 30, corridors, key sites like the mall, um, downtown.

That those are really important to identify where you think this sort of node should be as a mayor talked about downtown, and then what happens as you have success and there and and where do we want these different typologies to exist?

Um density, I heard several times.

Where is the right amount of density?

Where should it go?

Um, I heard infill may be a part of that strategy.

Um the green field, no green field.

This is something that we'll we'll come back to.

There are some unincorporated parts of Joliet that we haven't gotten to in our conversations yet.

We need a strategy around what we're gonna do in the future here, so we will revisit that.

I thought that was a really important point to make.

And supportive housing, this is a new one.

And I overheard some of the conversation with this group.

I think having an understanding of um the needs of people that are moving into housing and how housing policy and strategy can be responsive and reflective of our communities' needs is an important thing to talk about.

So churning that in your mind, what is the right definition?

What is the is it a housing typology or is it a service?

Do we want to pull that apart, or do we want to put it together?

That's something that we can also think about.

Um I love that everyone talked about the multiple multi-generational housing in a variety of ways.

Not all seniors want to be in single family homes, not all seniors want to be close to their grandkids.

Some seniors, you know, want to be where the action is, some of them want to live alone.

The you know, these are all really important aspects of um of creating a housing policy that is inclusive and that addresses all of these opportunities.

Everyone should have a choice, right?

And I've heard every group say that.

Some in many worksheets under population it says all.

All of you want everyone to have all the choices, which I think is you know, that's consensus with this group, and that's a really important place to start when we start actually putting words on paper for the draft housing strategies.

So thank you all for participation in this.

Are there any other comments about housing terms that we want to capture before we start to think about next steps?

Not about terms, but just something that keeps coming to mind for me from the education side of the of the of the fence.

Um as we add housing, as we develop housing, as we create these pockets of housing, the the realities of what we don't have currently utility-wise to support the families living in the in these areas.

We have pockets in Joliet where there is zero cell phone signal.

Right.

So therefore, when it comes to any kind of online access to things for educational purposes for students, it becomes an extreme challenge.

So the notion of policy and what might be a requirement in policy for developers as they're creating these areas, that there be a cell tower, or there be wireless access, or there be something that could that helps with that piece.

I mean, we should and the internet should be ubiquitous at this point.

We should all have easy access to it, but we don't.

And even here in Joliet, we don't.

We have families who struggle with any kind of access in that regard.

So as we add housing, I think there are things we have to think about utility-wise that we don't have now that we need to make certain we consider moving forward.

Absolutely.

And that is captured in the vision and goals and will be carried through into the draft plan.

And with the urban three report that's coming out, it is also that's another opportunity to reinforce that connection as well.

Thank you.

I had one.

Maybe this was said or I'm being redundant, but something, some type that speaks to barrier-free accessible housing or universal design.

Going back once again to the village of Bowlingbrook.

They have their visitability ordinance that was enacted in I think 2003, and all new construction is required to have certain standards of accessibility.

And their community development director recently spoke about it and said that it really did not add cost to development, and the outcomes were very positive.

Visitability.

Wow.

I like that.

Cool.

Great.

Well, thank you all.

Okay, so we'll just go through the next steps in this process.

We are starting to write the draft plan.

Um it will be a reflection of your input on the housing types and uh terms were appropriate in the in the document.

Um the appendix of the draft document will have a glossary that includes definitions.

That's another reason why we wanted your help today to start thinking about um what we mean when we say certain things and to be really clear on that and provide some context for folks that are less familiar with the content of the comprehensive plan to make sure that by the time they're done reading it, they have a very good understanding of um of what those terms um mean.

Um the draft plan will be iterative.

We are writing it, you will see it, you will have lots of times to review lots of time to review it, to provide comment.

You will not have one time, you will have multiple times.

So, again, this is the beginning of a conversation to build consensus and mutual understanding around creating a shared language on these particular topics.

The draft comprehensive plan, as you've seen from the previous the previous documents that we created, is comprehensive.

It has a lot of information on it.

A lot of that information is intersectional.

You can't do housing without broadband access access and utilities and economic development.

You can't attract people to the city without having jobs and without having housing.

So you'll see that in the draft plan, how these different topics come together and how um usually dependent they are on each other for creating success in the future in Joliet.

Um we will align the housing vision and goals with the draft plan.

So you're not gonna see much that should be a surprise.

Um it is development of the ideas that we have already created, and it will look different only in that it will be policy and it will give you the how.

How are we gonna accomplish this?

The final plan we'll have an implementation plan.

That's where we ask you who are the great partners that can help support actually getting this work done.

That's actually when the hard work happens in this comprehensive planning process.

Um, and then we want to talk to you again.

We have these meetings on a regular basis, so um, this is not the last time.

If you have questions in the interim, feel free to email Jane and she can you know get answers for you, but we want to keep you updated through this part of the process because this is where the real magic happens, where you've seen each one of these documents sort of be created in isolation.

Um this is where everything comes together, and so um we really just want to say thank you for your continued partnership.

It's been over a year now that we've been working on this together, um, and I think that we've done really great work.

So thank you again.

Um I do want to collect your worksheets, don't hide those from me.

Um it's gonna be important for us to refer back to those when we start writing this document, so we'll collect that uh those after this uh meeting.

Um that's all we have for today.

Is there any other conversation, discussion?

Did we miss anything that you want to share or comments that you might have before we close?

Yes, no.

How did you like this exercise?

Was it helpful?

Yeah, okay, great.

Awesome.

Well, thank you all.

Thank you.

All right.

We have a motion to adjourn.

No, we can't no, we have public comment from the members of the comments.

Very quick.

I just want to um this this is getting this is public today, and some of you already know that we have been working with Urban Three Consulting Firm to analyze um our economic position in the city for over a year now, and the principal Joe Minicosi is coming on June 17th.

There are two opportunities for the public to um learn from the um findings from his analysis for the city of Juliet, and the first one is a chamber of commerce luncheon.

So thanks to the chamber first for uh sponsoring that.

That will be at Harrow's at 11:30 a.m.

that day, and then there'll be a public another public presentation opportunity, which will be held at Bicentennial Park that evening, and that will start at 7 with the doors opening at 6:30.

That is a free event.

Um both events are open to the public.

The chamber is a um registration with a lunch included though, with for a fee.

So you will be getting those flyers emailed to you, and hopefully you will disseminate them and um promote that to the general public.

And otherwise, we're just continuing to work with our um steering committees and other community partners on the other land use plans, such as the ETOD, the IAD displays over a bridge, as well as um choice neighborhoods program.

So those are all still moving forward.

Any questions for Dustin or I?

Okay.

Is this the portion where Jim would insert like a new acronym or probably it's all the inspired quote?

Um is there any members of the public who wish to comment on agenda items?

Great.

Motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Second second, Dr.

Rouse.

Dr.

Ross is the second.

Yep.

Okay.

Do we need to call the favor?

No, all those in favor.

All right, okay, meeting adjourned.